This Past Weekend with Theo Von - #598

00:00:00.000 Today's guest is a legendary actor. One of the greats, they'll say, I'll say it. People are saying it. He's had so many amazing roles in The Joker, Walk the Line, The Master, Signs, Eddington is his new film, which I got to take a peek at before we got together.

00:00:24.220 We caught up at the Hotel Chelsea in New York City. Today's guest is Mr. Joaquin Phoenix.

00:00:48.760 Yeah, do you have any, you okay if we start, Joaquin?

00:00:51.180 I am. Why are you looking at the ground? What's going on?

00:00:53.260 I don't know. I just feel like I'm a little bit nervous.

00:00:55.720 Oh, because it seems like the assassin, like before he's about to fuck people up, is just like staring, like getting in the zone. It's like, let's do this. So I was like, okay, yeah, I mean, start. Sure, man, start.

00:01:08.580 Okay, okay. I think I'm waiting for like the coaches in my head to show up and be like, you can do this, you know?

00:01:14.380 Wait a minute. You can do this. You can definitely do this.

00:01:18.140 Thank you.

00:01:18.680 I'm questionable.

00:01:21.120 But coach is like, he's questionable. We're not sure if he's going to play.

00:01:27.080 Hey, that's not Jimmy Chitwood, okay? We got to sit that guy on the bench, you know?

00:01:30.660 I don't know who that is.

00:01:31.760 Oh, it was the guy from Hoosiers, remember? Who comes in and makes the show.

00:01:36.340 I don't remember.

00:01:37.720 Dang. Thank you for telling me you don't remember instead of pretending like you do, though, so I keep talking about it.

00:01:43.440 You're welcome.

00:01:44.720 That's going to happen a lot. There's a lot that I probably don't know.

00:01:47.820 Well, we're going to find out. Thank you for your time, man.

00:01:52.280 No, thank you.

00:01:53.260 I appreciate it. I really appreciate it.

00:01:55.040 And thank you for all your beautiful work over the years. It's been nice to witness and consume as just a regular person in the world.

00:02:02.760 Oh, man. Thank you. You're very sincere. It's very nice and refreshing and also slightly uncomfortable.

00:02:10.840 Yeah, sorry.

00:02:11.740 No.

00:02:12.000 I know you're married, so I'll keep it just as sincere, you know? We won't get physically sincere because that can be, it's outlawed in some territories.

00:02:19.760 But no, thank you for your time, man. And yeah, thank you for all the cool work and helping us think and stuff like that just as viewers, you know?

00:02:27.720 Yeah, it's funny how sometimes like life or God or whatever uses like a person as like an instrument, you know?

00:02:35.340 And yeah, you just have such a great way of like, yeah, just being able to do something that we can't, so many people can't do.

00:02:41.160 But then it helps us, the rest of us reflect on how we do things and live.

00:02:45.960 So does it make any sense even?

00:02:47.620 It's very nice. I mean, I don't know. All I'm hearing is, all I want to say is like, no, everyone can do it.

00:02:55.280 I don't have anything special. I don't do anything special.

00:02:58.360 Well, you're a lucky guy, then. You've been fortunate.

00:03:00.660 Yeah, I've been very fortunate. I've worked with great, great people.

00:03:05.440 What'd you do this summer? Did anything fun?

00:03:09.440 I feel like I was getting serious for a second.

00:03:11.360 No, no, no. I was?

00:03:12.540 No, I wasn't getting serious.

00:03:13.100 Okay, good.

00:03:14.380 What did I do? When does the summer start?

00:03:16.840 I guess the summer starts in, I would say mid, I would say June first.

00:03:21.620 June, okay. No, nothing fun.

00:03:25.760 I just have this movie coming out.

00:03:28.540 So we started, you know, I think someone like the 10th or something like that started press.

00:03:33.980 Okay.

00:03:34.800 So I did some press in LA and then flew to London and suppressed. So that's it. Nothing terribly exciting.

00:03:41.280 Yeah.

00:03:41.800 Well, I'm not, we're not like those kind of, we're not like, you know, like go vacation people.

00:03:46.800 That's not your life?

00:03:47.520 No.

00:03:48.300 Oh.

00:03:48.620 Yeah. You always, I think when you picture like actors, you always picture them in like

00:03:54.420 a little bit of like, kind of like a Rapunzel castle or like somebody's having shrimp, you

00:03:59.440 know, like that kind of thing. I think that's like a romanticizing of the, of the.

00:04:03.340 Right.

00:04:04.180 Yeah.

00:04:04.540 Yeah. I mean, maybe I should.

00:04:07.180 Yeah.

00:04:07.460 I mean, maybe that's what's missing. But, but no, it's not. I mean, I have like, but it's

00:04:15.700 not a regular thing. It's definitely not like, oh, here's summertime. Let's, let's do that

00:04:19.800 summer experience.

00:04:21.020 Got it.

00:04:21.260 But yeah, I have that like fantasy sometimes. Like sometimes I see myself like in slow motion

00:04:26.420 and jumping off a pier into a lake and shit, but I haven't done it yet.

00:04:30.780 Oh, okay. Okay. So if you're not even living out the fantasies you're supposed to be doing,

00:04:35.980 then what the hell am I freaking sitting over here parading them around?

00:04:39.500 I don't know. What are you, what are you doing? What would you do with your summer?

00:04:42.820 That's a great question.

00:04:44.120 What's your question?

00:04:45.180 Thanks.

00:04:45.480 Thanks, dude.

00:04:46.980 Oh, this is a real pickleball game here. I like it.

00:04:52.600 No, no.

00:04:53.320 No, no. It's good.

00:04:54.580 I just, I just didn't want credit for something. It wasn't my question. So I just felt like

00:04:59.940 I had to acknowledge that.

00:05:01.060 No. Well, well said. Um, yeah, that's a great question. I didn't, I think, yeah, I didn't

00:05:06.440 do that much. I just kind of like worked, I guess. And, uh, oh, I did get to see my niece

00:05:13.700 graduated, uh, from high school. So that was pretty cool. Just to watch somebody go through

00:05:21.300 that moment where they're kind of like, you know, where the training wheels kind of come

00:05:25.500 off of life a little bit, you know? Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So I thought that was pretty neat.

00:05:29.400 And I watched Eddington the other day.

00:05:30.980 Oh, yeah.

00:05:31.480 Yeah. Really cool.

00:05:33.820 Cool. I never graduated.

00:05:35.580 You didn't graduate high school?

00:05:36.620 No. To be honest, I'm not sure I even made it to high school.

00:05:40.240 Right. Okay. That's fair. Oh, damn. That explains things so much better than I think

00:05:45.960 watching you. You're like, oh, this guy didn't even went to high school.

00:05:48.480 Right. Yeah. I want you to have all the information, like I'm an open book and I just want you to

00:05:55.840 really understand what you're dealing with here. Okay.

00:05:58.040 As we move forward. Okay. Um, well, let's talk about Eddington first because, um, it was

00:06:04.800 awesome and it was just like one of the neat things that I thought, and this is just me being

00:06:08.840 kind of judgmental just so we can frame this for the conversation is, um, you want some

00:06:13.360 water?

00:06:14.180 I was thinking about it. I was deciding in my head, I was going, how thirsty are you?

00:06:19.980 How much plastic do you want? What, what are we going to do here?

00:06:23.660 Yeah.

00:06:24.660 That's, that's, that's the way, that's what you saw. So I was like, I looked at the bottle

00:06:28.780 and I said, it looks good. I need the water, but it's got a lot of plastic in there.

00:06:32.620 Yeah.

00:06:32.840 And I was trying to decide, no, no, that just feels like, then I just feel like I'm,

00:06:38.840 no, I think you should, let's get in it. I believe, look, I agree. I think everybody's

00:06:43.320 about to try to stop drinking out of plastic.

00:06:45.360 Right. But this is special water.

00:06:50.020 Oh, it's artesian, artesian, artesian. That's nice.

00:06:54.120 It's nice.

00:06:55.440 Yeah.

00:06:55.880 Yeah. It's nice.

00:06:56.760 Oh, that came down on a Sherpa's back or something. That was definitely.

00:06:59.960 Exactly. So now this, that counteracts the plastic, I think.

00:07:05.320 Yeah. I think everybody's worried about like microplastics and everything. Recent studies

00:07:08.880 have revealed that glass bottles now contain significantly more microplastics than plastic

00:07:14.620 bottles.

00:07:14.980 Thank you so much. I did not know that I was going to get an education here. Thank you.

00:07:20.340 So crazy.

00:07:21.440 I like it.

00:07:22.040 Speaking of so crazy, man, let's talk about Eddington, dude. It was so intense. The stakes

00:07:27.060 kept rising like because you have like this, it's kind of like a time capsule moment. This

00:07:32.440 is what I felt like to me. It felt like this time capsule moment from very recently where

00:07:38.060 you have the COVID mandates, you have the BLM movement going on. You have a change in the

00:07:46.900 overlords of media. So now like information is coming out of everywhere, right? So there's a lot

00:07:52.580 of like new, but also errant information in the world. You have all of these things happening at the

00:07:57.880 same time. Then you have this sheriff, Joe Cross, who's kind of like an authority figure,

00:08:03.600 right? You know, that's who you look to when there's something going on. But also at the same

00:08:09.660 time, everyone's challenging authority. So it's just, and then he starts to lose authority over

00:08:15.220 himself. So there's like, there's so much going on. My question, I'm going to get to it too.

00:08:21.620 When there's so much going on like that as an actor, are you thinking like in each scene,

00:08:26.620 are you thinking I have to embody all of these like little tributaries or at once? Or do you take

00:08:35.400 that like scene by scene or moment by moment? What's that like? Cause I mean, it, it got so

00:08:41.780 intentious as a viewer. You're like, I don't even know if I can watch this much less trying to be

00:08:45.800 the guy who's, uh, you know, spreading the jam, you know? Um, I think it probably,

00:08:53.560 I think it changes. I think there are, there are days where, um, you're probably hyper aware of the,

00:09:02.920 the arc and you're, you're kind of like following this trail that you're creating. Um, and there's

00:09:09.120 other days where that gets in the way and you just go like, shut the fuck up and just like,

00:09:15.040 listen to what this other person say right in front of you and just react to that. Like we're

00:09:18.940 not in our own lives. We're not always aware of like our arc. Right. So I think it's like,

00:09:24.680 you're just trying to balance it out. And sometimes you can be so in the moment that you do, you forget

00:09:29.260 that it's like, you just came and we're not, we're shooting the scene in six weeks, but you just have

00:09:35.540 come from whatever it's, uh, you know, intense emotional situation. And now you're coming to

00:09:40.980 this scene. You gotta, we have to carry that over. So I think that it, um, it changes us like

00:09:47.360 something that is just like, uh, alive and moving and changing. And of course you have like a partner,

00:09:57.440 which is the director. And in this case, the writer director, Ari Aster, um, who just like

00:10:03.380 knows the script, obviously inside and out and the characters. And we had been working going

00:10:09.860 through the script, you know, for a year prior to shooting, um, or we'd get together, um, who were

00:10:16.720 actually in, in New York primarily and just read through the scripts, um, and talk about things.

00:10:21.940 So you're kind of going through and you're developing, you're developing the character and

00:10:28.920 you're following this kind of plan that you have sometimes in your head, some things you've,

00:10:33.160 discussed, some things you're just spontaneously coming up with. Um, and, and then you just,

00:10:42.460 then you just hope for the best. You just go at some point you go, well, cause here's the thing.

00:10:48.080 This is the crazy thing about it. You'll like, you'll have this fucking plan that you're like,

00:10:53.000 I'm fucking clever. I figured this shit out. It goes from this scene. Then I go do that and that

00:10:59.180 scene. I'm doing that and that scene. You have this brilliant fucking plan. And you're like,

00:11:02.380 I'm kind of like a genius. And then in editing, they'll like pull two of those scenes out, like

00:11:08.620 take them out or like put them somewhere else. And then it's like, it's much better. And you're

00:11:14.300 like, I'm not a genius. I don't fucking know anything. Like if this shit works, it's because

00:11:20.280 the fucking director, uh, is making this work, you know? So like, that's the, it's like,

00:11:26.180 it's something very humbling about that process. Right. And you have to do the work. You have to

00:11:34.320 do the work as if every moment is part of this character's life. And then there's moments that

00:11:39.400 aren't even in the script and on screen that you're trying to, I don't know, uh, think about

00:11:46.180 and feel and kind of like take on as, as, as your experience, but you don't really know what's

00:11:53.320 going to end up in the movie. Um, so yeah, it's, it's, um, it's a, I mean, it's a pretty cool

00:12:00.040 experience. It's, it's kind of like life. Yeah. Like you plan all this shit and plan your day and

00:12:06.800 your life and your year and, and then shit happens. It changes things get moved around and

00:12:11.820 sometimes their characters, they just get like, you're taken out. Yeah. And sometimes you have

00:12:16.500 a plan, like you're going to show up to like a something and you're, everything's going to be

00:12:20.020 perfect. You're going to have flowers for the, this, and you're going to have the best thing to

00:12:23.460 say. And then next thing you know, you're running later, you get there, your plane gets delayed and

00:12:27.400 now you show up and you're the, you're, you're getting there as everybody's leaving and you're the

00:12:31.180 last person and you brought the 30th thing of flowers and everything's different. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

00:12:36.440 Yeah. Oh yeah. Can you tell at your, with your level of experience, can you tell when you stuck

00:12:44.000 the landing on a scene? Like, can you like, is there a moment when that thing cuts and you just

00:12:48.780 like, can be like, that was pretty good. Like I serviced it well. I've had that feeling before

00:12:54.960 and, um, it always turned out to be terrible and I was wrong. Like anytime my experience is that

00:13:03.500 anytime I'm like, fuck yeah. Okay. Got it. It's terrible. Um, and the times where I'm like,

00:13:12.420 I don't, I don't know. I don't know if I even landed. I'm not sure what's, I'm not sure what

00:13:18.180 happened. That's usually when things, when I like look back at it and I go like, oh, I

00:13:23.880 think that was good. Um, that's just my experience. I don't know what other actors are like, but

00:13:29.240 yeah, I, I guess maybe cause I, I don't know. I don't know if the things that I like, um,

00:13:38.940 are like, um, capturing something that's like, feels like intangible, um, and hard to define.

00:13:47.680 And like, when you kind of like nail it, I don't really like that kind of, um, acting or

00:13:55.640 maybe I'm not good at it. Like I, you know, yeah. Maybe there's a sense of bravado that

00:14:00.380 comes with that. That's not as true to life, you know? Cause it's very rare in life. Maybe

00:14:04.640 you just feel like you kind of nail it probably. Maybe. I mean, I don't know. I guess there's

00:14:10.640 some people that walk around the world, like nailed it. I know. Hulk Hogan.

00:14:15.780 Who else? Who else is somebody that really fricking nailed it? Oh, Nicolas Cage and Family

00:14:28.740 Man. Have you seen that movie? God, we got to sit together on a plane one time. Um, you

00:14:37.320 know, what was interesting about, and thanks for talking about this with me, man. Cause

00:14:40.520 it's, uh, you know, it's just cool to get to like, like, it's where you get looking at

00:14:44.280 a piece of art and you get to talk to the paint, you know? The interesting thing about

00:14:48.020 Joe Cross, who the character that you played is that there were moments I'm like, am I

00:14:54.880 cheering for this guy? Like, I just felt, I was like, how do I feel? Cause he's who

00:15:00.100 you're, you're kind of going through the, the, the, the film with through Eddington

00:15:04.740 with, I'm like, how do, like, do I feel for him? Do I feel against him? The whole time

00:15:11.000 I just like, I just knew, I just felt, he made me feel right. Are you thinking about

00:15:15.900 that as we're going, as you're going through it, like how you're trying to make us feel

00:15:19.240 or that's not something that an actor is doing?

00:15:23.240 So something that Ari and I talked about, something that was very important to me from

00:15:27.880 the beginning was that, uh, that Joe challenges like the audience's preconceived idea of what,

00:15:39.220 like a conservative small town sheriff is. Um, and, uh, I didn't know how, you know,

00:15:48.680 I don't really know how or what that really meant, what that, what that really looked like. Um,

00:15:54.600 and I think at some point I just, um, I just wanted to care about him. Like, I just wanted to,

00:16:03.340 I just wanted to like take politics or philosophy or anything like that out of the picture and just

00:16:11.340 go like, what's the, what's the man. And I think that I really think that we've found that through,

00:16:17.420 uh, his relationship with his, his wife. Yeah. Cause I think that's really where, um,

00:16:23.540 he's like most, uh, like his, his power authority is like threatened or nonexistent. Um, and so that

00:16:34.160 it becomes like the catalyst for his kind of desire for, um, more authority and power. It's one of the

00:16:43.860 things, as you said, there's, there's several things kind of happening, but then once you start

00:16:50.360 working, I think maybe you're thinking about that less, it's less becomes about, it's almost like

00:16:56.360 you, the, you start the process almost like an audience member yourself. Cause you're kind of

00:17:01.780 outside this thing looking in, you're reading the script and he's kind of like, it feels like it's

00:17:07.540 like this, this character over there, you know what I mean? And you're trying to get to it or bring it

00:17:14.360 to you or whatever that process is. I don't fucking know. Um, and so you're, you're starting like,

00:17:19.760 like that. And you're kind of going like, Oh, how do I feel standing back here when this guy does

00:17:24.880 this? And like, if he, if he said that line in this way, how does that make me, how would that

00:17:31.200 make me feel? And then like, somehow throughout this like process, you hopefully start coming

00:17:39.620 together and kind of merging to some point where it's not me standing outside of the character saying,

00:17:46.720 not in like some bullshit, like I'm the character way, but just like, you're just, um, hopefully

00:17:52.120 experiencing something versus like telling an audience what they should feel. Right. Um, and I think

00:18:00.880 ultimately the director is probably most responsible, is totally responsible for telling the audience

00:18:08.720 how they should feel. Right. So I think it's part of me is like to, just to take on the, the experience

00:18:14.900 to be honest in that, that moment. Um, so you have to really trust that director then, huh?

00:18:19.720 Oh yeah. Fuck yeah. Fuck. Ari's outside. I think he does not want to be mentioned in here. He's

00:18:25.800 trying to edit from outside. He just bleeped his own name out. Dude, totally. Totally. Wow. But that

00:18:31.660 just shows you how locked in he is to being on the ones and twos. Um, a lot of times with acting,

00:18:37.880 the actors get blamed for when things go bad. Right. I feel like as a viewer, you're like,

00:18:43.560 oh shit, you know, right. Like Rodney Dangerfield sucked in that, you know, or whatever. Well,

00:18:48.980 yeah. But it's really the directors, the director doesn't take as much heat. I don't feel like,

00:18:53.180 um, well, so the actor is the one that you're looking at. So like, if you're like hating a

00:19:02.720 movie and you're just looking at somebody's face, you're just going to blame them. Right.

00:19:06.700 But conversely, like, if you're also like this rules, this is the best time they get the credit.

00:19:12.460 Right. So like actors, oftentimes, I think more often than not, the actors are getting credit

00:19:17.580 and the director's like, I fucking made all of this work. Yeah. You're fucking grateful

00:19:25.320 shit. It must be like very frustrating to be a director. Like a parent almost with a child.

00:19:30.440 You're like, this fucking thing looks handsome because I chased that lady down the street.

00:19:36.680 Yeah. And he's just wandering around here with his good looks, fucking hiding important shit in the

00:19:41.460 backyard. Yeah. Because we bought him a shovel for his birthday. Right. Like.

00:19:45.500 Exactly. Yeah. And I mean, there's, you're talking about, you know, you're having multiple

00:19:51.780 takes to choose from. Right. And so, you know, directors going through and ultimately with the

00:19:57.320 editor selecting this take, sometimes they're pulling the audio from another take they're

00:20:02.960 putting in there. Just the, just like what, what lens is used and how it's lit and the angle

00:20:10.160 and whether you cut to a wide shot or you're close, like all of those things, it just happens.

00:20:14.840 Like even for me, I just watch a movie also. I'm not aware of the whole time. Yeah. It's a good

00:20:19.540 point. It's not like you're a wizard watching it or something. I'm definitely not a wizard.

00:20:23.840 Yeah. But it's, so I imagine it's very frustrating, uh, you know, for them. Um, and I think

00:20:32.960 anyone that's, that's in the business knows this, right? So when the movie, when the movie doesn't

00:20:39.020 work, even if the, if the general public is like, you know, fucking so-and-so sucks,

00:20:44.840 yeah. Um, the director probably knows that they really mean them. So they, they carry

00:20:53.320 that. I think it's probably, I think it's probably the, I imagine it's the hardest job,

00:20:58.100 um, being a director. I think, I mean, in, for making movies, yeah. The hardest job. You

00:21:03.740 haven't directed. No. Did you ever think about it sometimes? Are there moments where you're

00:21:07.460 almost there? I don't know that, I don't know that I like to delegate and, um, and I'm really

00:21:15.200 indecisive. Um, so, and it's like, uh, particularly under pressure and it feels like there's a lot,

00:21:25.440 you know, it's, you're constantly under pressure, I think as a, as a director. Right. Um, so,

00:21:31.960 but I don't, I don't know that I think what's appealing about it. The idea is, um, the collaboration

00:21:41.480 with all of like the heads of the different departments, um, is it after you, you know,

00:21:46.800 you're, you're collaborating with costume and hair and makeup and, and like props and stuff. And then

00:21:52.560 of course the director, but like the director is just like everybody. And that's, that sounds,

00:21:59.680 that sounds nice and appealing. I don't know. It might be a pain. Like oftentimes,

00:22:04.020 you know, they're like, I'll call you back, but I have to choose which forks we're, we're,

00:22:11.600 we're using for the dinner scene. Right. You're like, which fucking forks? Yeah. Like,

00:22:16.620 like, I guess there's five forks to choose from. I got to choose which, which one we're using.

00:22:20.500 Yeah. That kind of sucks. Oh yeah. And it sucks. If you're watching a movie and you see a fork

00:22:25.920 that fucking is out of place too. You're like these people, this isn't the Titanic. You blame

00:22:33.580 the actor. Oh, cause it's the actor's face. And you're just like, I fucking hate this. Oh,

00:22:38.380 you're like Dunkirk sucks. You see the silverware in that thing. Um, you know, what was interesting,

00:22:46.980 it's interesting to me. And if some of these questions are novice about acting and directing,

00:22:51.940 uh, thank you for entertaining them. Um, one thing that was interesting to me about Joe Cross,

00:22:57.680 about the, your character. Well, for one, he was so imperfect. Right. And yeah, when you saw him at

00:23:03.280 night and he was like feeling like those feelings with when he'd come home from his day and he finally

00:23:07.520 got to deal with what he really wanted to deal with, which was love. Right. Um, that just felt like

00:23:13.560 so human to me. Um, and he, he was his villain and his hero, right? He was, he was the creator of

00:23:21.980 his possibility and his, um, and his pain at the same time. And it was just so like,

00:23:29.960 ah, it was fuck. It was just a lot to watch sometimes. Did that, does that just feel like

00:23:36.460 regular life? Like, like, could you relate to him as a human? Does that make any sense?

00:23:40.440 Yes. Yeah, it does. Um, first of all, I happy to talk about whatever. I also don't, I just realized

00:23:48.400 like I was just talking about movies and directing. I don't fucking know anything. I have no idea what

00:23:53.900 a director does. So I just like, I don't want you to go like, ah, now I understand what, what

00:24:00.860 directing is. Cause I guarantee you directors are like this guy doesn't know shit. Um, so I just

00:24:08.800 want to clear that up. Yeah. Yeah. He's, uh, he's got some ideas. I'll tell you that. I'll tell you

00:24:15.600 that about him. Well, you didn't walk in here. Like you definitely like had brought the weather

00:24:20.880 with you. You know, you certainly came in here like a victim of the storm or just like a regular

00:24:25.300 guy who just gotten, you know, you can't, yeah. Anyway, go on, sir. No, no, no, no. Let me,

00:24:30.600 let me educate you here. Let me teach you about filmmaking. All right, folks, something special

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00:26:26.840 This show is sponsored by Liquid IV. Yep. Man, one of my favorite summer memories, I think,

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00:26:39.060 Me and my buddy got, uh, stuck out in the sun. And gosh, when we got back to shore, dude, I just,

00:26:46.180 I drank everything. I drank every, I was drinking out of dang hoses, faucets. I would drink out of

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00:27:33.160 liquidiv.com and get 20% off your first order with code Theo at checkout. That's 20% off your first

00:27:41.400 order with code Theo at liquidiv.com. Um, I'm sorry. I don't remember what. Yeah. I just felt

00:27:50.760 like he was the cause of his own possibility and his own pain constantly. And it just, it made me

00:27:55.840 think so much about life, but it was so real to see him that way. Um, could you relate to that in

00:28:00.780 your own life? Like, or, or yeah, of course. Yeah. Just normal, huh? Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think all the,

00:28:08.740 all the characters, um, and this, I felt when I read the script, I was like, oh, I kind of like,

00:28:14.880 I recognize myself and all of these characters actually. Um, and sometimes it's like, you know,

00:28:20.780 it's a, an, an embarrassing admission. Um, and then, um, you know, there's just, there's things,

00:28:29.440 particularly that, that time. Um, and I think in some ways, yeah, maybe we're always,

00:28:38.380 we're always, maybe we're always responsible for how we respond to what happens in the world.

00:28:48.880 Right. So we're not like so much of like, just what happens in life, you don't have any control

00:28:55.320 over. Um, but how we respond to that, we have control over. And, um, I know I constantly fail

00:29:04.440 in, in my response, or at least don't respond in the best way. Um, in the moment, right. I respond

00:29:12.460 like emotionally. And so I definitely, I definitely, uh, identified with, with that. And that's,

00:29:18.620 that's Joe. I mean, he kind of like, just keeps making mistakes and, um, he's so like, he's, um,

00:29:31.240 he's so desperate to like, have some control, like, just like, let's just, he just wants,

00:29:40.260 he's just like, you know, that feeling when you're like, I just, I need things to just stop

00:29:44.140 for a fucking second so I can breathe. And then like your desire to like, make things stop,

00:29:50.460 just make things ramp up more and more. And then you just like trip and you fall down the stairs.

00:29:55.320 It's just like, it's like that. Um, yeah. That escalation. Oh, I kept imagining the whole

00:30:01.360 time. I'm like, Oh my God, this guy is fucking just like, has put too much cheese on his burger,

00:30:07.000 dude. This guy is just, and then I kept imagining the whole time he has to take a pee and he can't

00:30:10.980 even get to that. He's just dealing with like activists and people throwing things through

00:30:15.360 wind. And then he gets home and he sleeps in his glasses. Like he literally gets up and just

00:30:20.240 has to like bow and he's like, suddenly it's all in focus again. And his brain has barely

00:30:24.540 had time to rest. And I'm like, God, somebody fucking shoot, just put a sniper, shoot a Xanax

00:30:31.780 into this dude or something. Just somebody fucking give him a damn Percocet suppository or

00:30:36.480 something. This guy needs some relief, you know? And then it also was like, God, especially during

00:30:42.200 that time, like a lot of mania came along with a lot of those different like things that were

00:30:47.160 happening in the world. Right. And there's still a lot of mania remnants from that. And I was like,

00:30:51.980 God, everybody needed some relief. You know, it feels like that as a society. Sometimes we need

00:30:56.920 some relief sometimes, but we have everything we need. It feels like, so it's kind of a weird

00:31:01.680 juxtaposition to be in. Yeah. So what's the plan? Yeah. What is the plan? I don't know. I don't

00:31:09.280 know. It just feels like we're just doing the opposite of a hug right now. That's, that's right.

00:31:14.280 Right. That's right. And, um, yeah, did you feel when you watch that movie, like you got

00:31:18.360 to the, like, you were like, this is, will be a reminder. This will like help influence

00:31:23.420 people in a better way. This could be like a seed of like where we've been and where we

00:31:28.460 can grow from. I don't know. I mean, I, I don't know. I, I don't know. Like movies are surprising.

00:31:34.560 Those things that connect with people and, um, actually influence culture. Um, and sometimes

00:31:42.660 they, they, they don't just not, I don't really know what it is. But I, you know, no, no, no.

00:31:49.180 I think it's a fair question. And I think in some ways, um, I think all I can do is think

00:31:55.340 about like myself versus like the, the effect that it has on, on me. And, you know, in some

00:32:00.280 ways there was, um, there was like, I felt like I had permission to, um, to laugh at

00:32:08.480 myself, like a way to like, I kind of evaluate some of that, like mania, as you say, like

00:32:13.740 we were like fucking crazy, like the summer of 2020, it was crazy. And people were, I

00:32:20.420 love that you said it's the opposite of a hug. And it really was like, everyone was so kind

00:32:24.140 of fractured and fragmented and just, um, all isolated in our own worlds, like quite literally

00:32:29.800 physically isolated. And then everyone was just so online and kind of fed their own

00:32:37.900 an algorithm fucking thing. Yes. That just further kind of propelled them into their own

00:32:43.020 lanes. It's like even people in the same houses and their own place. And, and there was just

00:32:48.800 like this, um, I remember everything felt so aggressive. Like even there were like, there

00:32:57.520 were like signs that were supposed to be like, like we trust science and we, you know, we

00:33:04.620 love all people. And, but it's not like even that felt like confrontational. Right. Like

00:33:10.280 it was like, there's, there's like, it didn't, it felt like no matter what anyone said, everyone

00:33:17.660 was like, this is my position and my position is fucking right. And you can go fuck yourself.

00:33:23.740 Like, you know, it's just like people went fucking nuts. Well, we, not people, not, uh, we did.

00:33:29.240 Yeah. All of us. No, it doesn't seem like you're calling anybody out. It feels like we're all

00:33:32.840 inclusive. I agree. It's amazing. What a time. It was like the most recent time capsule. That

00:33:37.680 was the most insane. Like usually they're like, we found a can of ham from 1930, you know, and

00:33:43.600 we're going to invite everybody over and the girls will sing and then we'll open it, you

00:33:46.940 know? But this was like, Jesus Christ, we just found the most insane time capsule. And we,

00:33:52.040 the mud is still wet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But then it's like, it was a reminder. Have

00:33:58.800 we even recovered from all of that? Like what happens to the human being as we go through

00:34:03.260 all that? And then you have all this pent up anger and confusion and everything.

00:34:07.000 I think we wanted to forget or like pretending to forget. Um, because yeah, it was, uh, it was

00:34:16.900 ugly and, and it was ugly, it was ugly, but it's also really, it was also really painful.

00:34:22.400 And I think, um, I think a lot of people were like fucking scared. And, but then also the

00:34:29.420 character of the mother, I didn't even think about that of Joe Cross's mother, because

00:34:33.640 mother-in-law, mother-in-law. Oh, that was his mother-in-law of the mother-in-law. Because

00:34:38.760 then you, you're, you're like, did it just change everything now for you? No, it's not

00:34:45.740 his mother. No, it made it a little bit more crazy. I'm like, so you're telling me he teamed

00:34:50.460 up with her mom and now they're the one. It's just like, but then that is something a lot

00:34:56.620 of people have in their life. Like, oh, well I talked to my girlfriend's mom all the, and

00:35:00.380 now we're team or the, or the, you know, oh shit, man, that guy was screwed, dude. Yes.

00:35:07.500 Joe Cross was fucking screwed. Yeah. But he, but he did space. He screwed himself. Yeah.

00:35:16.560 He was the, he was the holder of his possibility and his pain at the same time. You know, it

00:35:20.660 was pretty crazy. Um, yeah. What was meeting Ari Aster like? I watched some interviews with

00:35:26.100 him. He seems like a charming guy. Um, yes. I met one of his partners, Lars Knudsen. Yeah.

00:35:34.940 Yeah. Dude, I had some video calls with him a few years ago. I just remember, I was looking

00:35:40.140 it up. But why? We were just talking about something, maybe thinking about an idea. I had

00:35:44.940 an idea about a, um, a movie and David Spade and I just wrote a movie and made a movie. We

00:35:49.680 paid for it ourselves that we made. Right. So it's fucking very unique. It's done. It's

00:35:55.980 done. We're editing it now. Right. And it's. Are you in it? I'm in it. I'm like

00:36:00.280 this, his sidekick. He's like the main guy. Wait a minute. So you know all about making

00:36:05.200 movies and then you were just playing dumb, asking me questions, setting me up, setting

00:36:10.000 me up to be like, well, let me tell you, Theo. Not at all, dude. Here's, here how, here's

00:36:16.280 how it's done. No, we fucking, we have no idea what we have, dude. We may have a damn

00:36:22.420 visual diorama that a couple of kids put together for their kindergarten class. I, you know,

00:36:27.160 I was playing a busboy, you know, not Commodus, you know? So I think it's definitely, this is

00:36:31.480 way different. I think it's a different, this is a, is that the right way to say it? Commodus?

00:36:37.060 I don't fucking know. Anyway, no, I didn't know anything. I mean, I'm just learning little

00:36:41.220 things, but I, I mean, I get to talk to somebody who's been, you know, who has had a plethora of

00:36:46.760 experience. So you talked to Lars. Lars is great. Lars is a producing partner of Ari.

00:36:52.520 Yeah. And I just realized that yesterday when I was looking it up, I was like, oh, wow.

00:36:55.920 I had speaking with this guy before, but, uh, when I, when I met Ari, uh, we didn't, we didn't

00:37:01.900 meet. It was, we, we spoke on the phone. Um, and it was the summer of 2020 is when we first

00:37:11.340 spoke. Um, and he had this, uh, film that he wanted to make called Bo was afraid that

00:37:18.060 he wanted to talk to me about. Um, and so I just, I spoke with him on the phone and I

00:37:25.120 mean, the first time that I met him, this is so crazy. This is so COVID was, was when

00:37:31.320 I got to Montreal to, to shoot that movie. Um, and, uh, it's so wild because it just was

00:37:39.880 like normal. We just accepted it, but that's very strange, right? To not meet the director

00:37:44.400 for like the actor and the director, not to like be in a room together until they're two

00:37:50.140 weeks off from shooting. It seems risque. Yeah. It seems risque to me to do something like

00:37:56.320 that. It's like, you could interview your cellmate or whatever, but you're like, now I'll just

00:37:59.840 wing it in there. You know, like you could have a little small Q and a with your celly.

00:38:04.560 Um, so was there something that inspired you or led you to think? Cause I think what's

00:38:10.480 interesting also in, in, in, uh, the career of an actor is you start to realize, well,

00:38:14.960 I only have so many times that I get to do this and times that I can afford to be away

00:38:20.220 from family and friends and just take on such energy in my life. And so it's, I'm sure it

00:38:25.520 starts to become a little bit more poignant, like the choices that you do make. So what was

00:38:30.500 there something about him or his processes that made you think this is the right choice

00:38:35.280 or how do you land on a choice like that? Um, you never know if it's the right choice

00:38:40.060 or what it is, right? You're just going, I mean, honestly, I just liked him. He started

00:38:44.460 talking and the way that he talked about the film and the way that he talked about the

00:38:50.440 character, I knew that it was personal and I could tell that, um, it meant so much to him

00:38:58.860 that he loved making movies and it meant so much to him and that he like, I think I just

00:39:07.880 got a sense that he was tireless. Um, and, and like, you know, you, the director like really

00:39:18.080 has to be obsessed, right? Cause they do have to, they have to do so much, which fork am I

00:39:24.660 fucking choosing, right? If you want them to actually care about that shit or else you're

00:39:30.520 going to be watching the thing Dunkirk and you're pissed off or plastic silverware, right?

00:39:36.760 Right. In fucking 1812. And I'm sure that wasn't the right year for Dunkirk either. So we're

00:39:43.680 all bad. No, no, that's, that sounds good. Um, so, so I think that that's, that, that's

00:39:53.380 maybe what, you know, right away I was like, okay, well this, you know, he, he loves making

00:39:58.000 movies and I, I know that just from talking to him on the phone. Um, and he's funny. I

00:40:05.320 mean, I think that's the biggest thing. Sometimes you're just like, do I want to hang out with

00:40:10.140 this fucking dude? I'm sure. That's right. Um, and it's like, cause you know, you go through

00:40:16.520 a whole range of motions to make a movie. I mean, yeah, it's a movie and you're, you're

00:40:21.400 safe, but in the moment your body doesn't know that it's not real. You know what I mean?

00:40:27.880 It's just some shit that you're doing. Right. And, um, so it can, you know, things can get

00:40:33.700 like, there can be a lot of emotion or a lot of energy and, um, and, uh, and yeah,

00:40:40.060 you know, having somebody that you really like feels important. Um, and they paid me so much

00:40:48.340 money. Oh God. No, they didn't. Give me some, give me a little, um, dude, side quest really

00:40:55.260 quick. So my friend Josh used to live like, I think somewhere like an E kind of like over

00:41:00.940 by East LA. And, um, I've known who you were like a decent amount of my life. Cause most

00:41:06.460 of the world knows it, knows your name. But he said that you lived in his area. And I

00:41:10.180 was like, well, what if I opened up a shoe store called, uh, these boots are made for

00:41:14.040 Joaquin. Right. I was like, just to get to meet you, that would be the goal. The only goal

00:41:18.740 of the whole store was to get to meet you. And, uh, anyway, that was just like something

00:41:23.320 funny that we thought of one day. But if you saw that store, say, if you'd driven by a

00:41:26.960 couple of times, like, do you think you ever would have stopped in there?

00:41:29.840 Absolutely. Yeah. And I would have just like cleaned the place out for sure. Where was

00:41:36.540 this? You just come in with a pistol. You're like, Oh my. Oh, that's not what I meant by

00:41:41.220 clean the place out. I was going to do it legally. Oh, support the business. Yeah. Thank

00:41:45.760 you, dude. Yeah. Does clean the place out mean like I'm here to fuck shit up? I think

00:41:51.240 that, yeah, yeah. I think that terms have changed every time. Oh, I didn't, I didn't mean

00:41:55.220 that way. I apologize. See, this, these are the, these are the mistakes you can make. But

00:42:01.680 thanks for saying you would have stopped by, dude. That's awesome. Yeah. No, it's, it's

00:42:05.340 a great, how could I not? It's a great store. Maybe you should still put it together. I'll

00:42:11.020 tell you this one day, if I make enough money and I can open up a small place that I could

00:42:14.780 afford to do it on the side as a thank you to you for coming on the podcast and talking

00:42:20.820 with me, I'll open up a small one near you and I won't, I'll surprise you. I feel like

00:42:26.420 something like that would be pretty special. Um, when it comes to acting, um, has your approach

00:42:33.180 to, has your approach to acting changed over the years? Like, as you notice your own evolution

00:42:37.600 with it. And if you get tired of talking about acting, we can talk about something else.

00:42:40.960 Uh, has my approach changed? I don't, um, maybe and maybe not. Uh, I don't know. Uh, I don't,

00:42:52.220 I don't, I don't think so. Um, you know, you're definitely more self-aware. It's just like

00:43:00.180 you are. Yeah. It's just, it's just like the nature of, of doing something, you know, that's

00:43:07.060 like visible and you're out there for whatever, 30 fucking plus years or whatever. Um, maybe

00:43:16.760 more than 42. But are you, wow, that's a long time. Uh, but self-aware in the sense where

00:43:23.700 you're like, um, you know, you, all you're like, like, do you start to know all the, like

00:43:31.280 the, the palette you have as an actor or does that continue to evolve or does some of it

00:43:37.100 get lessened because you're getting older and you can't, you know what I'm saying? You

00:43:41.280 couldn't do the same thing. Maybe you could as a, as a 27 year old actor or 21 or 18 year

00:43:46.660 old, like, does that palette grow or does it dissipate kind of? Um, I don't know. Maybe,

00:43:54.660 maybe, maybe both things and maybe sometimes it's maybe just gets refined. Maybe just, you

00:44:02.360 know, it's, it's similar. It's just like, um, a richer color or, or less rich. I don't know

00:44:10.720 what, you know, I don't know what it is. Um, maybe that's, that's what happens. Hopefully

00:44:15.880 you have, uh, a director that also is familiar with your work and can like challenge you if,

00:44:22.460 if you're not challenging yourself. Um, but I think like, you know, it was like, I don't

00:44:30.740 know, but I imagine, um, you know, when you're, uh, you know, it's like, it's like 20 year old

00:44:36.560 basketball players coming out and, you know, he's just fucking just going for it, trying

00:44:40.980 to make a name, right. He's just doing the thing. And at some point he becomes no, you

00:44:45.660 know, he's suddenly like one of the guys on the team. It's a different kind of pressure

00:44:50.920 of like taking that shot. Right. Cause it's like when you're young, it's like, oh, it's

00:44:56.520 scary. Cause it's like, oh, if I fucking miss, I don't, maybe I don't get another opportunity.

00:45:01.440 But then when you're older and established, it's like, if I miss, it's going to be a lot

00:45:06.780 of press about this and people are going to be like, yeah, pay way too much money to fucking

00:45:12.860 miss that shot. That dude should not be missing at this point. Like get the fuck out. He wasn't

00:45:18.060 even wearing sneakers. Like what kind of guy do we have here? So this is, you know what

00:45:22.980 I mean? So I think like, that's what I mean by like being self-aware. Like it's at some

00:45:27.400 point you feel pressure in a different way. Like I think it's always, no matter what, it's

00:45:32.300 always like, you always feel the pressure, but, um, yeah, I think when you're 20 years

00:45:37.480 old, it's just, it's, it's, it's just different. And, um, you know, nobody's really

00:45:44.200 looking at you, you know, I don't feel pressure when you walk on, on set.

00:45:49.260 Right. So that kind of goes away, but there's this different pressure of like, it's really

00:45:52.540 that these overalls are hanging off my shoulders here.

00:45:56.280 Yeah. I don't understand that.

00:45:58.380 Yeah. I don't either. Actually.

00:46:00.420 I was trying to be like a weight of the world on the shoulders. I was thinking of something

00:46:04.220 that goes on shoulders and then overalls came out. I'm like, fuck it.

00:46:07.840 No, no, it was good. You should stick with it. Um, I just felt, I just felt stupid. I

00:46:16.780 was like, Oh, I was like, Oh, this is a really cool saying. I don't know it. Um, are there

00:46:20.740 moments when you're acting where, cause I'll, there's little moments whenever I do stand

00:46:24.500 up where I feel like people that, uh, like relative or something, there'll be a moment

00:46:28.780 where I feel like my brother or my sister, like there's sometimes where I turn a certain

00:46:32.580 way and it almost feels like my mom. Do you ever feel like you channel like certain parts

00:46:36.760 of you, like people come out of you in certain moments? I think I noticed it more as I get

00:46:40.980 older too. Does it make any sense to you? Uh, sure. Like you ever turn towards your kids

00:46:46.000 and say something and you're like, Oh, I am. That was just my dad. Like that wasn't even

00:46:50.160 me doing that. Yeah. I, I mean, I definitely in my life have a lot of my dad, uh, in me.

00:46:58.640 Really? Were you surprised that you got so much of it?

00:47:00.960 I was. And I think, I think I was like the last to know. Um, but it was like, yeah, like

00:47:09.560 that, like that. And then like, it's something I was like, they're saying like, dad, like those

00:47:13.940 are not good qualities. And so like sleeping in his car, dad, like, right. And so I then

00:47:22.100 became aware of it, but no, I think, I think my dad actually, um, I was aware from fairly young

00:47:33.320 that, um, I, I think he's probably the greatest, uh, influence or I was influenced by his life in my

00:47:46.000 work. Um, I don't, I don't know if this is making sense. Um, I think I modeled so many characters

00:47:53.560 that I've played after him. Um, he's, he's dead. He's been dead for a while so I can talk shit about

00:48:01.200 him. Yeah. So he can't disagree with you. Um, and if he is going to do, I just like, cause I was

00:48:09.240 like, I don't, don't say your dad died. It's fucked up. Make a joke about it. And then go,

00:48:13.160 that's even worse. So no, we weren't sure if he died until you said it. I'll be honest with you.

00:48:16.940 Don't, don't look it up because he might not be dead. We don't get the clicking clacking over

00:48:23.460 there. You channel him right now and just turned into him. That'd be crazy. Um, wow. That's kind

00:48:28.340 of interesting. Yeah. I think, you know what? Sometimes I think I'm like my mom and I never

00:48:32.240 thought I would be. And I was always even like rebellious against my mother. And then I'm like,

00:48:37.340 you gotta be, sometimes I look in the mirror. I'm like, you gotta be fucking kidding me, you know?

00:48:42.100 Yeah. But then at the same time, it's like, that was probably in my life, that was a connection that

00:48:46.740 I wanted the most anyway. So it's interesting that that's what God gave me or that's how it,

00:48:51.120 you know, that like, Oh, it's like, this is kind of what I always wanted the most. And it's oddly

00:48:55.920 that's part of the most of what I am, you know? Yeah. Just interesting how sometimes things like that

00:49:03.360 work out. Um, was your dad a funny guy? He's very funny. I mean, he was, um, he was a ham.

00:49:10.960 Um, like, Oh, he was. Yeah. Like he loved, uh, doing skits for us kids and joke. Yeah. That's

00:49:19.620 cool of him. And like joking around. Yeah. He's very, um, yeah, yeah, he was. And what

00:49:26.280 would he do? Like death of a salesman or death of, I don't know what he did for a job, death

00:49:30.120 of like a employee somewhere or, uh, no, he would just have fun moments. One of his, uh,

00:49:39.280 his favorites, which, which always made us laugh was the, was a thing called the fly

00:49:44.800 skit. Um, where he just was literally, he just was a guy reading a paper on a bench and

00:49:53.000 a fly starts buzzing around and he like waves it away. Then he tries to like hit it with

00:49:59.040 the newspaper. You know, he like rolls it up and like hits it. And finally he goes in

00:50:03.060 his bag and he takes out some bug spray and he goes to spray it just as it lands on his

00:50:08.780 nose. And he sprays himself in the face and then like gets, gets all fucked up from the,

00:50:14.440 from the bug spray and falls over. And like, when you're like six years old, that's the most

00:50:19.960 genius thing you've ever seen, especially cause we didn't have like TV and shit when I was

00:50:25.080 young. So that was like high level entertainment. Oh yeah. Your dad was the damn history channel

00:50:31.040 when you were a kid back in the day, you know what I'm saying? Or they were, that's so funny

00:50:34.980 to think about. I never thought of my parents were like the channels that we had, like, cause

00:50:39.860 we had some channels, but it wasn't like that, you know, it wasn't like you had every moment

00:50:43.160 was access. So really people were looked at as a lot more entertainment. Like, let me go poke

00:50:48.240 this bear and see what I can get them to do a little bit. You know? Oh, that's cool,

00:50:52.220 dude. My dad, um, Oh, it was so funny, dude. My dad was very old when I was born. He was

00:50:57.800 like, he was born in, uh, 1910 or whatever. And so he was like, everything was very like,

00:51:06.360 you know, and my brother and I would go to, he ran a, the world's fair was in new Orleans

00:51:12.300 when I was growing up and he ran a, I don't know if he ran, but somehow he, they let him

00:51:16.860 have the keys to go in there in the morning. And he, it was like a souvenir shop for the

00:51:22.440 world's fair or postcards, stuff like that in the French quarter. And he'd always pay

00:51:27.540 this guy, this guy who was a clown, right? He'd be like, go get the kids a couple of, uh,

00:51:32.360 wieners or Franks, you know, hot dogs. So we'd like, I just remember like one of my early

00:51:37.860 memories is just being with my brother and this clown that my dad had given a couple

00:51:41.900 of shackles to running us down the street to get us a couple of fucking hot dogs. And

00:51:45.840 I was like, Oh, it's going to be a fucking interesting road.

00:51:49.580 So how, how old were you, uh, when he moved on, when he moved on, I was 16 and I was, it

00:51:57.120 was weird. Cause I was like embarrassed to my dad cause he was older. So I didn't want

00:51:59.900 to introduce him to people. I always had like this weird relationship. But then I think as

00:52:04.080 a kid, it was fascinating to watch this older guy that, uh, that you love so much, but you're

00:52:12.180 also trying to keep hidden, you know?

00:52:14.760 So how, when you were 16, I do not, I'm not, I'm going to fail at math. I'm trying to figure

00:52:21.240 out, I'm trying to figure out if that's how my son is going to think of me. I was 45 when

00:52:29.200 he was born.

00:52:29.820 You'll still be fine. Huh?

00:52:31.040 I think you're going to be okay. It's going to be, do not get a cane early though. If

00:52:35.320 you get a cane early, he'll know if you get, I thought about this. I was just thinking

00:52:40.560 about yesterday. Cause I got to knock somebody up in the next two years. Cause I need a family.

00:52:43.540 But if you get a cane early, he's going to know.

00:52:46.480 Right. So that's, so I basically, when I, when I had my first son, I was your age and,

00:52:53.080 and it is something that I think about constantly like, um, and I, cause I just want to be able

00:53:00.880 to be a fun dad and not, and not be this. So did your dad die suddenly? Can I ask?

00:53:08.360 Yeah. Yeah. It's okay, man. Yeah. He got cancer and I didn't even know about cancer that much.

00:53:13.020 And, uh, and he died pretty quick. It was pretty sad. Cause suddenly he got like, yeah,

00:53:18.940 it was just kind of sad. I mean, it's all sad, but then it was, you know, I don't know.

00:53:24.220 Well, of course it was sad. What am I thinking? We're fucking, you know, everybody was like

00:53:28.320 getting the champagne out, but he was a ridiculous, but my dad couldn't see, he would drive,

00:53:34.660 he would take us somewhere, but he couldn't see the lights or anything. So he'd be like,

00:53:37.840 what'd it tell, is it red or green? And suddenly we'd get it wrong and he'd fucking just drive

00:53:41.180 out. It was all baffling. That sounds kind of cool. Yeah. I think he would have dug it.

00:53:45.840 I gotta say. Wow. You would have dug it. Um, did your dad have cancer or no? Yeah,

00:53:53.080 he did. He did. He did. Yeah. And here's something else that's fucked up. Okay. My

00:53:57.860 sisters lost his ashes. No. Yeah. We just, it's every couple months. Was it? Somebody

00:54:05.980 will send out a text to the thread and be like, has anybody found dad's ashes?

00:54:09.620 And it's cause all you could do is fucking laugh because it's horrible. It's almost like

00:54:19.440 it's, it's just horrible. It's almost really like his last performance. I mean, that's

00:54:25.800 such a totally, it's a, it's a great bit. That's you're right. It's his best moment. Dad's

00:54:35.440 as anybody found. I love that text too, you know, just randomly every once in a while.

00:54:41.020 Cause it'll occur to one of us. I'll be like, yeah, which, where the fuck are dad's ashes?

00:54:46.620 He sent that out and, um, still don't know. Here's the thing. I mean, I'm blaming my sisters.

00:54:53.740 Yeah. Oh, it might've been me. I don't know. The thing is, is that it's one of those real,

00:54:59.660 like, you know, sometimes you have a vague memory of like, I know we were in here. Yeah. No

00:55:04.740 idea. I have no idea. Like, yeah, do you ever walk in the kitchen? You're like, it's kind

00:55:10.200 of like that thing. Like, what was I in here to get? You know, where did, where did I put

00:55:13.920 those? You know? Oh man. Thanks for sharing that. That's funny. I'm glad we even got to

00:55:18.500 laugh about your dad today and my dad. That's cool. I think our, I think spirits, I think

00:55:23.140 like when you laugh about somebody from your like life or something like that, I think they

00:55:27.580 feel that on the other side. I think there's like a big connection there that we don't know

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00:56:41.440 You know, the summertime has a lot of side hustles going on. You'll see somebody maybe out there,

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00:58:01.260 you can do. Um, have you ever met someone and you were like, I could play that person? Like,

00:58:08.440 is that, cause that would be like, kind of like, I feel like if I were an actor, that would be like

00:58:12.060 my power. Like you would corner somebody in a, in a room of a fucking party. Like I could play you

00:58:17.500 in a heartbeat. Huh? You know, does that happen with the good actors? I don't know. You have to

00:58:23.640 ask good actors. I think that I, um, uh, that's what this is called this past weekend. Yeah.

00:58:33.820 How'd you come up with that? Because I just started on a Monday

00:58:37.320 to be honest. That's good. Um, we didn't have a real drawing board there, Mr. Phoenix.

00:58:47.760 I'm trying to, I'm trying to think, uh, I don't know that, I don't know that there's

00:58:54.480 ever been anyone where I was like, Oh, I have to, I have to play that. I've been, I've been

00:58:59.300 inspired by like front, like I've stolen shit from like friends and people that, that I've

00:59:05.000 met, but I've never, uh, I don't think that I've ever like, like I'm going to play who exactly.

00:59:15.200 Oh, well yeah. You get to choose. You're the one who can do it. Yeah. But that's the

00:59:19.580 interesting thing. Yeah. I just wonder if you had that ability. Does that start to get

00:59:24.180 into, into some people, but then maybe that's like some ego in there too. Um, you play the

00:59:29.620 broken so well, man, you really just have a, I mean, you are just like a harp that is missing

00:59:37.220 some strings, you know, but it's really beautiful to watch a lot of times. Um, what is that?

00:59:44.060 Why do you think that do you get attracted to those roles? It seems like you must in some

00:59:48.160 ways. Um, and sorry to just kind of like pigeonhole you and your abilities. I know you have a lot

00:59:55.640 of abilities. Um, uh, I definitely, I don't know why I guess. Um, okay. So, uh, my dad

01:00:12.100 was, uh, he was, uh, he was a complicated dude and he, um, there was like a lot of like, um,

01:00:23.740 I want to say dichotomy, but I don't even really, I'm not entirely sure if that's, if that's

01:00:28.260 the right thing, but it is like, um, yeah. And, and, and cause, um, it was really, it was

01:00:35.100 complex or something like very like, um, sensitive and sweet and thoughtful about him. And he grew

01:00:43.400 up in a pretty, pretty tough situation. And, um, you know, it was in juvie, very young and

01:00:51.500 had this very splintered family background and, you know, it was like, they're pretty affected.

01:00:57.960 Yeah. Like he, you know, so you'd call like a shit kicker, you know, it was like, so, but

01:01:03.820 he also was like, he also was like, like a fucking hippie was like, you know, was, you

01:01:11.240 know, vegan and like, um, so, so I think like I was really, I think he was like so fascinating

01:01:19.900 to, to me, um, growing up because I think I, I saw the, those things and then that, that

01:01:27.940 existed inside the same person.

01:01:30.220 Yeah. Let's get fucked up and get a salad on.

01:01:33.740 Exactly.

01:01:34.900 I mean, that's a crazy thing to even think, you know, and I'm sorry to say that just a

01:01:40.320 little bit like, damn.

01:01:41.340 No, it's, it's great. It was, it was great and it was perfect. And I needed that moment.

01:01:46.480 Um, so I, I think like that was really, again, I think maybe I was, I'm not, you know, I don't

01:01:55.080 know what, but I think I was attracted to those roles maybe as a way of whatever, you

01:02:04.660 know, connection or just, yeah, just like familiarity, curiosity. You know what I mean?

01:02:08.780 Like I feel like he was kind of like the most interesting person to me and I probably wanted

01:02:14.460 to like try and understand him more or something. I don't know, maybe, or maybe not. I don't

01:02:20.180 really know. Um, but so I think maybe that's, that's part of it. And then I, like, yeah,

01:02:25.400 I just, I, I love one of those people that whatever limited exposure I had to, uh, film

01:02:35.180 or television when I was young. Um, I loved like fucking drama. Like I, I loved conflict.

01:02:44.380 I mean, I did, I loved when shit was like, you know, this seems, don't, this seems very

01:02:49.720 bad. Whatever's about to happen. He's very bad. Oh no, you are a fucked up person. I was

01:02:54.400 fucked up. How could you've done that? Uh, I think that that was interesting to me. And

01:02:59.220 I think I also wanted to like try to, um, I think I always was like curious. Uh, I think

01:03:06.200 I didn't believe that there was like, uh, like good people and bad people. So like, I was

01:03:12.780 like interested, like, okay, well, this is somebody that's made these like mistakes or

01:03:17.760 bad decisions. How could that, how could that happen? Like, what are those, what led to that?

01:03:22.860 I think it's just like a curiosity about that maybe. Yeah. Um, and then some of it honestly

01:03:27.740 straight up, some of it also is like, it's not like I walk in and it's like the full fucking

01:03:33.380 salad bar and I can choose whatever. There's like a full thing. And then they come in and

01:03:36.840 they're like, you have, you can actually just from here to there, you can have those four

01:03:40.200 options. You go, but what about there? Go, no, no, you don't. That's not for you. So

01:03:45.220 part of it is like, get in where you fit in. Right. Part of it is like, I had a face that

01:03:50.900 just oftentimes looks criminal from like very, from a very young age. I noticed that like

01:03:57.260 when I went into the fucking store with my friends, I was the one that was followed around

01:04:01.980 by security. They like were like, and I didn't understand why, but at some point I think I

01:04:08.880 kind of realized, I was like, Oh, okay. So I'm going to, I'm getting these, these parts

01:04:14.220 and like, yeah, I'm the guy in the master. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, or, you

01:04:20.060 know, playing Skeletor in the He-Man commercial, not He-Man.

01:04:23.340 Oh, that's what you're saying. Like, oh, this is kind of interesting. Yeah.

01:04:27.300 I mean, so part of it is like, that's just also the reality. Right. And there's things

01:04:32.900 where you're like, Oh, but I can do that. I want to do that. And they're like, no, you

01:04:36.200 can't. And in some ways, maybe they're right. There's also like a point where you're like,

01:04:43.020 okay, how do I, how do I achieve that thing that I'm chasing there in this, in this thing?

01:04:51.940 Like maybe that's the better route for me. Like maybe that's the more honest thing. And

01:04:58.220 like, I'm chasing an idea that I think that somebody maybe has of me as an actor and I

01:05:06.480 want to dispel that. No, what do you, who, that's not what's important. Um, but maybe

01:05:13.220 it's valuable to like chase that quality, but through this, this character's experience.

01:05:19.800 Um, that's fascinating, dude. Like the Joker. Yeah. Like I could totally see exactly what

01:05:24.640 you're talking about. Like, and I'll think a lot of times in life, we have this, we're

01:05:28.220 chasing an idea of ourselves or a projection that we thought someone else had of us or

01:05:34.040 even just the, um, the archetype. I can't even fricking remember that word dude from fricking

01:05:40.020 science or whatever. The archetype of what we think something is, you know, like the high

01:05:45.240 school quarterback or the prom queen and for our whole life where like, instead of being

01:05:49.820 like, well, why don't I just fucking put on this comfortable shoe that fits or why don't

01:05:54.740 I try to be the quarterback? But he's in the fucking school play and he doesn't have a football.

01:06:00.500 Right. Yeah. And he's a fucking lives in a dungeon or whatever. And he has a hunchback.

01:06:04.460 Yeah. Cause it's, it's probably good to like challenge yourself and challenge expectations,

01:06:10.960 right? To not just go like, Oh, I guess I'm just that. And I'll just be that. Right.

01:06:14.660 Yeah. Like there was, I think I did have, um, an ambition, uh, but really my ambition was

01:06:23.000 about like an experience. I felt like, I don't want, I don't want my experience to be limited.

01:06:28.500 Like that's not, that's not fair that I don't want to just play this role in this way. Like

01:06:35.880 that's, I, like, I want, my appetite was bigger than that. Like it was bigger than I think what

01:06:42.720 I was, um, what I was told. I remember, I remember like, I remember when I was young,

01:06:48.620 I remember doing this movie and that one of the other actor was talking to the director

01:06:52.580 and he was like, wouldn't it be cool if, you know, Joaquin did, you know, this kind of

01:06:58.840 movie, you know, kind of like so-and-so. And he mentioned this other actor that was like

01:07:01.920 my peer who was like, like the actor. Right. And the director was like, yeah, but I mean,

01:07:07.160 Joaquin is no so-and-so. Like, and, and he was like, and, and the other actor was like,

01:07:14.320 dude, that's so fucked up. The director was like, oh no, no, I just, I mean that in the

01:07:17.700 best way. Like you're a character actor. Um, he's no Fred Armisen. Yeah. Character actor,

01:07:23.940 yeah, it's like, it's like kind of code for like, you can't really, like you're never going

01:07:28.820 to really get there, but you'll work. And, um, and that fucking pissed me off. But here's

01:07:37.400 the thing, but it pissed me off. Cause I was like, no, I, I have more like, that's not,

01:07:44.520 um, there's more that will come out that will come out of me. And I just, um, but I think

01:07:51.360 I ultimately appreciate it because it made me go like, well, how do I find that way? Like,

01:07:58.480 how do I find more? And, and yeah, I'm not going to be able to get in this door. And like,

01:08:05.480 yeah, I shouldn't play the quarterback. Like it doesn't make sense. Like if I walked out,

01:08:10.900 then you're going like, well, unless it's like, yeah, the defense is going to be on the field

01:08:16.040 a lot. Yeah. If this guy's a fucking quarterback, what's going to be? Unless it's like some 80s

01:08:22.540 school comedy, like kids comedy where like they're a disaster. Yeah. You know, maybe that's

01:08:28.480 maybe that version of it. Yeah. Or unless they like siphon in a unique quarterback from another

01:08:33.660 realm kind of. Right. And his thing is, by the way, let's not give away too much. Cause maybe this

01:08:41.480 is something we should, we should work on. But no, I, I think there was something else you said in

01:08:48.620 there and I forgot what it was a second ago, but it was really profound about, or it was as profound

01:08:53.180 as people can be in a fucking motel somewhere. But, um, with a hotel, you're right, actually,

01:09:00.280 which is cause in case they're, no, you're right. You're right. I don't want them being upset.

01:09:05.540 This is a very famous hotel where a lot of fucking important people have overdosed.

01:09:12.400 And that is true. We're at the Chelsea hotel and it is very unique and fun. This is a great place to

01:09:18.120 be whenever you're in New York city. I think you're tricking me up at all. No, I for real had

01:09:28.760 paranoia. And I was like, I don't want to be a person who's talking shit about them. And,

01:09:34.940 but motel Chelsea, it's kind of sounds dope to be honest. Motel Chelsea. Yeah. It sounds better than

01:09:44.820 hotel Chelsea. Oh, it sounds like somebody, my dad met, you know what I'm saying? That's a problem

01:09:50.040 too, dude. Um, sorry. So anyways, no, it's all fun, but I think you said exactly what you wanted to

01:09:56.480 say there. And I think it's interesting. Yeah. Cause I think it pertains just even outside of acting is

01:10:00.620 how can we do more? How, or like, how can I find a way to apply myself to this thing? How do I adjust

01:10:08.200 like, uh, what is a new way to do something? If I want to get to my goal and if it's even going to

01:10:16.600 be possible, is there another route, right? Like rerouting when your app says that it's kind of like

01:10:22.340 that, which I think is, um, something that people do when they are, uh, when they really have a goal

01:10:29.080 that they want to try and attain, you know, I just think it's interesting. Yeah. It's like, of, of,

01:10:34.240 of course, right. Resistance, right? Like, it's like resistance is, is important. And, you know,

01:10:39.860 just reading like, um, just been reading about dinosaurs, my kid and, and you're like, oh shit.

01:10:48.640 Motherfuckers were like, hold on. There's a very large dinosaur. It's got big teeth. It's nasty.

01:10:54.920 It's mean, uh, what do I do? I'm just, uh, I'm, I'm a fucking vegetarian dinosaur. What do I do?

01:11:00.300 And just like evolution is like, oh, you start growing spikes out of your back or fucking horns

01:11:05.300 and shit. And it's just like, it's a reaction to the environment. Those motherfuckers, it took

01:11:11.560 millions of years to like react and to change and to evolve. And so sometimes when you're like,

01:11:18.240 oh yeah, the director was mean to me. Like, yeah, well, it's fucking nothing comparative,

01:11:25.320 comparatively. Right. So it's just, yeah. I think kind of meeting the challenge in some ways,

01:11:29.980 like trying to get to a place of appreciating the resistance. Yeah. Um, and reacting to the

01:11:37.000 resistance. I don't know what I'm saying about dinosaurs. But I think it's fascinating to think

01:11:40.740 how bad-ass a fucking vegan or vegetarian, a fucking brontosaurus was. Brontosaurus is big.

01:11:48.200 That, that was the solution. It just got like bigger. Who is the biggest vegetarian dinosaur?

01:11:53.440 Let's give them a little bit of shine here, you know, and I'm sure Josh Brolin will get to play

01:11:59.400 them in a movie, but we won't. This is the, the brontosaurus dip, dip. Oh, the dreadnoughtus.

01:12:10.160 Look at that limousine. I have not read about him. Um, how, cause you, how long have you been a

01:12:17.280 vegan for? Vegetarian, vegan? Uh, vegan since I was three or four, three, three and a half years old.

01:12:24.580 That's what's been a whole part of your life. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Hmm. You know what I do like

01:12:30.360 sometimes? Radishes. Yeah. I just, I just had some, you know, I just made it yesterday. I made

01:12:35.300 radishes and jalapenos together. Fantastic. Lemon, salt. I like having some salt and water. I like

01:12:43.520 fasting recently. I've been doing it a lot. Have you? And I really love it. What did you do?

01:12:48.360 Just nothing. Just water. Yeah. Just water and a little bit of salt. Put some salt in your hand,

01:12:52.520 but you even look forward to the salt. I would even go to the gym. Oh, wait, you went to the gym.

01:12:57.540 I would go to the gym. I get home. Like when I get home, I'm having my fucking pinch of salt.

01:13:01.020 How long do you fast for? 73 hours is the longest that I did so far, but I'll just do a day. Like

01:13:06.620 I did like 36 hours the other day. I think, I feel like I'm doing like a day a week now, 24.

01:13:10.500 Yeah. That's great. It's good for you. But are you sure you're, you should work out while you're doing it?

01:13:15.000 No, I'm not sure. Oh, maybe look into that. I don't know. But, uh, I remember doing that

01:13:21.600 and then I didn't feel good. And maybe it was that. Oh, um, I want to ask you one more question

01:13:28.440 before you leave. Cause I feel like we've had a nice conversation. So I don't want to push the

01:13:31.200 bounds of it. Oh, push it. It's okay. You can do whatever you want, man. It's fine. Um,

01:13:35.920 do you feel like, do you, did you like being a son? Is that a weird question? Is that I like being a son?

01:13:42.460 Uh, cause I never thought about it. I just thought about it. Like as we're sitting here

01:13:46.300 thinking about that, we were both, you know, we have that in common or a lot of siblings.

01:13:50.300 Yeah. I've got three siblings, one boy and two girls.

01:13:52.660 One boy, two girls. Yeah. Um, well, I was the second son. Uh, and, uh, and my brother was like

01:14:04.740 quite a force and was definitely like, I don't know, almost like mythical or Shakespearean or,

01:14:09.660 you know, maybe it was cause he, he died or something, but he's like, you know, he was

01:14:12.500 like the first son and he was, and he was, he was incredible. And, um, and he was such

01:14:18.820 a force within our family. It was kind of like the, the, the, um, the, the guiding light

01:14:24.900 in some ways. Um, he's one of the acted first and we used to sing on the streets and he played

01:14:30.980 guitar and kind of like oversaw.

01:14:33.300 He was like a lead singer.

01:14:34.180 He was the lead singer and he was the guitarist and kind of oversaw everybody. And he, and

01:14:39.440 he was such a, uh, like a, a strong, but gentle force within the family. So I think

01:14:46.340 in some ways, if I'm honest, a lot of my life, like growing up, I kind of was like, you know,

01:14:54.240 like, right.

01:14:55.420 What am I going to do?

01:14:56.160 Yeah.

01:14:56.360 Like, what kind of like, you're like, and not, not a way of like, oh, this sucks. Just

01:15:01.780 kind of like, cool. Like, cool. Like feel secure.

01:15:04.920 Yeah.

01:15:05.360 It's just handled.

01:15:06.400 That's taken care of.

01:15:07.440 Yeah.

01:15:08.480 Everything's fucking handled.

01:15:09.460 Free at last.

01:15:10.560 Yeah, for sure.

01:15:11.760 I got three sisters and, um, and they're also like amazing and strong in the best way. And

01:15:21.320 like, you know, forces like each of them just brilliant. Um, and, and I probably, yeah, for

01:15:28.960 like, yeah, I don't know that I, um, you know, I just, I didn't, I never, I never felt any

01:15:38.100 weight or pressure about like being, you know, son or anything like that. You know, um, maybe

01:15:43.780 it falls on the first child a lot. I never thought about that. I'm, I'm sure. Um, I don't

01:15:50.360 know if it fell on him or if he just like took it. You know what I mean? Sometimes, sometimes

01:15:55.520 it's just like undeniable. You know what I mean?

01:15:57.820 Like, like, um, uh, look, look at the two of us. I'm the son.

01:16:02.840 Sometimes. You know what I mean?

01:16:04.080 He's working freelance over here. Okay.

01:16:07.500 It's kind of the truth. Right. Um, and there was no, like, I never, you know, we also, there

01:16:14.100 was like a four year age difference between us. So I never, I never felt those things like,

01:16:20.140 you know, in movies, there's like the brothers are like competing and like angry.

01:16:23.440 Oh yeah. Like Shakespearean brothers.

01:16:28.740 That was funny. You didn't intend that to be funny.

01:16:32.480 Yeah. I did not intend that to be funny.

01:16:34.340 Yeah. Step.

01:16:35.000 It still was.

01:16:35.820 Our brothers. Oh, thank you. Yeah. I'm trying to think of other brothers.

01:16:38.340 Anyways. Um, this is good.

01:16:40.580 Jackson five, maybe this is a good, that's good. Um, but that's interesting. Yeah. I don't

01:16:46.580 know. I was just thinking about being a son cause I never really even thought about it

01:16:49.920 myself that much, but yeah, if you have that brother, you kind of have that get out of jail

01:16:53.360 free brother, you know, you're like, Oh, this, this guy's got that dude. He's a fucking lead

01:16:58.280 singer. I'll be back here. You know?

01:17:00.160 Yeah. Are you, or what?

01:17:01.940 I'm the second bro. Yeah. I'm the second son. My brother was kind of like went AWOL. So I was

01:17:06.100 like, Oh shit, I got to fucking pick up. I got to like, I got to do some recycling here. You

01:17:10.520 know? Right.

01:17:11.140 He's great now, but he was just like, kind of like rogue, you know, he was like more of like

01:17:15.040 a pro like troublemaker or just like lost. That's what I mean. He was like a lost, right? Like a

01:17:20.880 lost guy, but now he's great. And now he's like my hero. He's like, you know, it's cool to like

01:17:24.980 be able to still be like in like that everything changes over time. And what's the age difference

01:17:30.560 two years. But yeah, he's like a brave. I, what do I admire about him? He has a lot of empathy

01:17:35.620 and he's good for like being patient with me. Um, yeah, it's like he has time for me. Right.

01:17:43.540 And that was something that I think growing up in our place, it was just like, I never,

01:17:49.560 I didn't even know it was possible, you know, but yeah, he like, he makes time for me. He

01:17:54.200 makes time for me. Yeah. And I think that that's pretty special. That's good. Um, you know, one

01:17:59.920 thing that you guys talked about in Eddington was like whose land it is, right? That was

01:18:04.300 like a little bit of a theme. It was kind of a sub theme. I felt like with the native American

01:18:08.680 and you guys were like the County or the, uh, township abutted up against a native lands.

01:18:15.360 Where do you feel like it's kind of so weird where we are in the world right now, because

01:18:21.100 I feel like people are still warring over lands. You know, you think that's in like, there's

01:18:26.440 ice raids, like people are getting taken off of lands and like, you know, I don't know.

01:18:32.780 I just feel like sometimes I thought we'd be further along in this. I don't really know

01:18:36.560 Westerns, but I think that that's like a common thing in Westerns. At least that's the, that's

01:18:41.020 the feeling I have when I think about Westerns. It might not be, but just like the idea of like,

01:18:45.380 this is my land and I'm the protector of this land and I will fight for this land. Um, and so

01:18:51.680 I think that is something that comes up in Eddington. And I think that both kind of, um, both

01:18:58.200 figures, both the Sheriff Joe Cross and the mayor, um, Ted played by Pedro Pascal, um, both believe

01:19:06.540 that they're like fighting for the land, uh, fighting for this town and that their, that

01:19:14.760 their idea for this land is, is the right one. Yeah. Um, I was really moved, um, by something

01:19:22.000 that, that you said when you, you talked about, uh, the war on Gaza. Um, and, uh, I think that's

01:19:29.280 really courageous, um, to, to speak about it. And you spoke about it like in such a, like

01:19:36.480 honest, uh, way, um, that I just thought was like really beautiful. And, uh, and it's crazy

01:19:44.820 because like what's going on is absolutely so fucking horrible. There's no justification

01:19:52.460 for fucking children starving, starving to death in a conflict. Like it's that simple, right?

01:19:57.500 You don't have to understand geopolitics or anything like that just to, to get that. I

01:20:02.340 know there are conflicts all over the world constantly. Um, but that's something that

01:20:08.640 is, uh, I'm just, it's, it's shocking like how, um, maybe we're afraid to, to talk about

01:20:18.000 it. Um, and oftentimes you're made to feel like you're stupid because you don't understand

01:20:23.860 geopolitics and kind of go like, well, I don't have to understand geopolitics. Like

01:20:27.700 just have to understand like human rights. Yeah. It feels like to me, you know, uh, for

01:20:34.720 me, I don't know. I don't care about, I don't know if I care about geo. I mean, but it's hard

01:20:39.660 to say I live on a land that's kind of been taken from other people, but here I am saying

01:20:44.000 like about geopolitics and I understand that. But then at what point do you not say something,

01:20:49.860 you know, like, yeah. And we're in a time and just like in Eddington kind of like, and

01:20:54.160 I'm not comparing like any of these two things, but people are watching things on their phones

01:20:58.640 and you can see for the first time, some of this like travesty in real time and it just

01:21:02.820 fucking hurts, man. It's like, and then you're like, am I crazy for not saying anything? But

01:21:07.280 then here we are on a land where, you know, people are living in allotments now, Native American

01:21:14.100 allotments and that sort of, you know? Um, yeah. And that's, that's a great deal of pressure.

01:21:19.600 And, and just honestly, just you saying that makes me fucking feel like, you know, under

01:21:26.160 pressure. So like, okay, yeah. What, you know, what am I, what am I talking about? But I think

01:21:30.620 sometimes not acknowledging it is, is wrong. Um, obviously I don't have the fucking solution,

01:21:37.700 but war always fucking sucks, right? That conflict sucks. But what's happening, it just

01:21:43.860 is, is crazy to me. Crazy to me. Just like, just the food distribution that's happening

01:21:49.640 now. Oh yeah. They're locking, they're like hiding it from people or that they're tricking

01:21:54.240 people or that they're, they have to go so far to get it. It seems. Right. And why is

01:21:58.780 it like, why is it not the, the organizations that are typically overseeing that and have, you

01:22:05.000 know, half a century of, of experience or decades of experience in the different NGOs. And they're

01:22:10.000 not the ones that are overseeing the food distribution. It's a, it's a new, um, organization,

01:22:15.920 the Gaza humanitarian foundation. Um, and, and so that is, um, yeah, it's just really troubling

01:22:23.560 and, and heartbreaking. So it just feels like, how do we not acknowledge that and, you know,

01:22:30.720 in some way. And so, and I think that you did and I, um, I just like, I don't, you know,

01:22:36.160 I don't know, like when you did that, if you were like, if that made you nervous doing it

01:22:40.660 or. Yeah. I think I felt scared. Yeah. Well, I was, it was, uh, I think that it was, it was

01:22:46.660 courageous and it was meaningful and, uh, and I think it matters. And, and, um, so I, you

01:22:51.440 know, I'm, I'm, I'm straight up. I'm really here today because I was, I was so moved by

01:22:58.940 what, by what you said and just like the courage to do that. Yeah. I was wondering why you came

01:23:02.940 to be honest, um, to be very honest in some ways or not, not in some ways, but, but thank

01:23:08.160 you, man. I can't even believe that you saw that. And, uh, yeah, not thank you, but like,

01:23:12.220 yeah, I think that shit just like, I don't know. It's just like, it's crazy to think like

01:23:16.400 I'm laying in bed at night and I'm warm and I'm okay. And to think that there's like,

01:23:20.060 like some kid who's never going to put these pieces together, you know? And even the kids

01:23:25.240 who have to be alive are the people who still have to be alive. What life do they have? You

01:23:30.160 know? Like what, like, I don't know. It makes me like, I don't know. And then you start to feel

01:23:35.880 ashamed of your own existence in some ways. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. You almost feel ashamed to

01:23:41.080 be alive in some ways and a little bit of a way. Does it make any sense? Do you think?

01:23:44.400 Um, yeah, I understand the feeling. I totally, I totally understand that, that, that, that

01:23:52.340 feeling, but, um, but thank you, man. Thank you for, uh, well, yeah, not thank you, but

01:23:57.680 yeah, I don't know. It's, it's interesting, you know, but I think it's important today that

01:24:02.780 we, that you do say something like you say, you know, and not to think that this isn't

01:24:06.660 affecting people, you know, I think, yeah, that we're human beings. We absorb what's

01:24:13.080 going on, you know, and we watch the actors that are out there in the world and it affects

01:24:18.100 us. It affects children. What are kids doing or seeing those things on TikTok? What happens

01:24:22.580 to their brains and stuff, you know? Um, so, but no, I'm grateful to be able to be in a

01:24:28.600 place today and in a country where we can still say something, you know, and it's not mandated

01:24:33.240 by some other power and who knows if that's coming soon or what's happening. Um, so.

01:24:40.680 Do you have some inside information? I have nothing. Okay. I thought you were looking at

01:24:46.200 me like that you knew some shit. Like, no. Okay. Oh, that's good. Um, is there a, you

01:24:59.160 know, I was thinking the other day I missed Philip Seymour Hoffman. I missed him. I miss

01:25:03.060 his acting. Is there somebody that you miss? Um, like they're acting or like a Philip Seymour

01:25:11.680 Hoffman. I'm trying to think Michael Landon, I miss. He did Little House on the Prairie.

01:25:17.060 Yeah, of course, of course. And then, uh, and then, um, what was the heaven? Highway to

01:25:23.240 Heaven. It was Highway to Heaven. With Victor French. Right. Because I think that was one

01:25:27.860 that I tried out for several times. You're lying. No, I'm sure. I'm sure. God. Yeah. It's

01:25:34.640 definitely, it's definitely in my memory, but that was one of the shows when I was a kid

01:25:39.060 that was, that was popular. Yeah, dude. Wow. He, yeah. He was something special. He was

01:25:46.700 a really special. Wow. So he was this, what's happening? Oh. In between. What's this thing

01:25:53.720 here? It says 1984 and then RIP. What is it? Well, apparently he took the Highway to Heaven.

01:25:57.720 He was in the HOV lane in that picture. You know, that's all we can do. Um, anyway. Hey,

01:26:05.060 listen, you're going, you're going back out on the road, right? Yeah. Is, is it fun or

01:26:10.760 is it grueling? Um, it, it was fun. Like, I think like I'm ready to stop doing this hour

01:26:18.040 material. It's changed a lot. It's like probably 60% different than when I started. So it's

01:26:22.060 evolved a lot and adjusted, but I am, I am, uh, I'll be happy to get it done when I feel

01:26:28.160 like we've gone to all the places that we can and like kind of, you know, you want everybody

01:26:31.540 to have a chance to see it if they want. Um, but I'll be happy to have a chance for my

01:26:36.960 brain to settle down and not always have to feel like I have to go do this thing every

01:26:40.380 other week or every couple of weeks, which is a blessing, but still it's like just this

01:26:43.760 thing on the calendar. It's almost like you're always having to take a vacation. And so I'll

01:26:48.200 be happy when then that, when that's done. So I can see what else do I want to think about

01:26:51.380 and do like, you know, uh, we like, I work with this group called valor that does like

01:26:58.580 sex and love addiction, intimacy disorder, stuff like that. So I want to like, just have,

01:27:03.580 just have a little bit more time to do stuff. That's not just focused on myself. Maybe I

01:27:07.640 guess, I don't know. So it's, it sounds, um, I, I imagine it would be nerve wracking. I can't

01:27:17.700 imagine having to do that. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Like getting up, like getting up. Yeah. Like

01:27:24.480 standing. It's like just standing makes, that makes me fucking nervous. And then, but then

01:27:30.440 you walk around, you have a microphone and you say shit and it's crazy. Dude, I'll tell

01:27:37.920 you, and this is, I think this is the only way to end this is just these, these boots

01:27:42.280 are made for Joaquin. Okay. So we have to, um, dude, thank you so much. Thank you for

01:27:48.780 spending time with me today. Thank you for thinking with me today. And, um, and I just

01:27:52.680 appreciate it. It was nice of you. And, uh, yeah, you just do a great job of like being

01:27:57.540 able to like, you know, create things that the rest of us can't to make us feel. And so

01:28:01.760 that's a gift that you have. And, and I feel lucky that you have it. And so thank you

01:28:07.540 for just, uh, bearing that gift. Oh man. Thank you. That's, um, well, thank you. Thank you.

01:28:17.540 It's just too, I know I just get embarrassed. I could, I just want to go, I want to dissect

01:28:22.660 everything you were saying. That's nice about me and tell you why you're wrong. Yeah. But,

01:28:27.620 uh, I won't do that. And look, let's just thank Motel Chelsea here for this fucking epic

01:28:33.900 sweet here. And cheers to our dads, man. They're out there. Cheers to those guys.

01:28:39.260 We don't, my dad, we don't know where he is still. So that's, we're not sure. He's somewhere.

01:28:46.740 TBD guys. Yeah. You know, good luck. You hope you find your way.

01:28:52.740 Now I'm just floating on the breeze and I feel I'm falling like these leaves. I must be

01:28:59.520 cornerstone. Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind. I found I can

01:29:09.760 feel it in my bones. But it's gonna tell you.

This Past Weekend with Theo Von - July 18, 2025

#598 - Joaquin Phoenix

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