#607 - Young Amish Male
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 35 minutes
Words per Minute
206.50903
Summary
Timothy Shine is an Amish dude. He was born and raised in the Amish community in Minnesota. He talks about growing up in Amish, growing up with Amish food, and what it's like to be Amish.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
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We've added some merch from when Bobby wasn't helping me figure out how to talk to him or whatever.
00:01:30.220
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And we sprinkled in some other new items and restocked some old classics.
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Today's guest is our young friend from Lanesboro, Minnesota.
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And we're excited to learn about what it means to be Amish and what it's like and how things are going for him today.
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All right, sitting here with an Amish dude, basically.
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So Pennsylvania Dutch is like a dialect of German.
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It's quite a bit different from German, you said?
00:02:54.200
And so if someone would be talking like German, you can kind of understand them.
00:03:03.800
So do people do like, would your parents speak German and Pennsylvania Dutch?
00:03:09.700
And would your grandparents possibly speak German or your great grandparents?
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But it's kind of a branch of, a lot of the people there have German lineage.
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Like, I think every Amish is like Swiss, German, because most of them came from that area.
00:03:27.980
And funny thing is, in school, like on Fridays, we learn like, so that's basically the day
00:03:38.060
And also every morning in school, we also sing like three hymns out of a, it'd be a little
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book with like red pages where we sing German hymns out of.
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Now, the funny thing is like, I can kind of read German and I can spell German, but I do
00:03:54.580
not understand like the German that I'm reading and spelling.
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Well, I, some of it I can, but most of it I can't.
00:04:01.100
So you can comprehend a little bit, but you couldn't really then recite it.
00:04:06.160
Well, because sometimes for like Christmas and stuff, we had to like, there was, there's
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also a green German book, which when you're lower grades, like fifth and under, you read
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out of that, where there's like big, like bigger paragraphs in the back where it's all
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And sometimes for like, well, most, every time actually, for Christmas and stuff, we had
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And I guess I was, I wasn't the greatest cause I, I kind of, I guess, lost interest for it
00:04:42.120
So, uh, I don't even, what, do you know what, what is ADD?
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You ever have that feeling like when somebody's tickling you or whatever, kind of?
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And you're like, you're just can't even handle it.
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It's like that feeling, but it's like in your brain, kind of when you're trying to pay attention.
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So it's like you're, you're paying attention doesn't work, you know?
00:05:06.720
Ah, no, I don't think, I don't think anyone has ADD to do that enough.
00:05:15.300
I think it's like, yeah, you get to change your mind without even doing it, you know?
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So if you drive a car, if you have ADD, so can you focus on the road or you're like
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looking over to the ditch and then this car and the guy in the pipe, like the passenger
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I think it gets a little bit testy for some people.
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The Amish do experience ADD, but reported rates are noticeably lower than in the general population.
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And diagnosis practices may differ significantly due to cultural and lifestyle factors.
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When you're born in Amish country, are you born at a hospital?
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Over the last probably 15, 10, 15 years, a lot more I've been born in a hospital.
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I know there's some people in our community, all of them were born at home.
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Now me and all my brothers, we were all born in the hospital.
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So it all varies from family to family most of the time.
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Are you allowed to use like municipalities like a hospital and like a public park and those sorts of things?
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Like where does the line differ between if you're Amish and you're just straight up supposed to be at the house, you know, like using chalk and just eating butter, you know, out of each other's hats.
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And then the line where you're supposed to be able to like go to public parks and go to like non-Amish events and stuff.
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Oh, so like me going to your concert, like that would not be like that, keep that on the down low.
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But some Amish, I know some Amish, they go to like Def Leppard concerts and when they're like around my age, you know, like 80s rock.
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Like Damish, like Damish, that like party and stuff, they like 80s rock.
00:07:07.760
And then I'm not sure how you call them music, but it really bumps when you turn it all the way up.
00:07:13.060
No, it's like some, I wonder if it's like when it's like boom, boom, boom, boom.
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I don't ever know what you call it, but yeah, if you turn that stuff all the way up, it really shakes something.
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Like if you have like a big stereo system in like a building, that building starts shaking.
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You can really feel your barn raise when you hear that, huh?
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But like that stuff we only do on the weekends, that stuff is kind of like, nah.
00:08:00.220
Do the Amish listen to Morgan Wallen ever or no?
00:08:06.000
He loves Morgan Wallen and he's in room springer too.
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You know, I thought your concert was pretty cool too.
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I've never really heard that music before, but I was like, it was like, I was jamming out
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There I am right there with your hat you brought to me.
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And it's just like some good kind of jazz New Orleanian music.
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I think it puts people in a mode of like, they're going to, you know, some type of artistic
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like brain space instead of just some like music you hear all the time, you know?
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It's like, I was, I was kind of surprised, like, or not really surprised, but I never
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really, I never really heard that music before.
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I've, I've, uh, I happened upon them in New Orleans a while back and ever since then,
00:09:09.300
And that's, that's what makes all the, like the great sounds.
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Do you guys have instruments, um, in, uh, in your Amish village?
00:09:20.440
So, um, it'd be considered a district, a district would be like different parts of church because
00:09:26.160
there can be one big community, but there can be like four to 12 different districts of
00:09:30.700
like the church where the rules are like a little bit different here and there, but like
00:09:41.280
So the areas you live in kind of delineates where you go to church at?
00:09:46.420
Can you go to any church or if you live in a certain area, you kind of go to a certain
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So in the area, you always, if damage moves somewhere, it's usually for a certain church
00:09:56.400
And we don't have church like houses and stuff.
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Like not like some, I seen like, like really big churches.
00:10:03.560
They were like, they went almost like up to the sky and stuff.
00:10:06.940
They got some churches that are trying to do a lot.
00:10:13.160
So all of our church happens at, uh, uh, at our homes.
00:10:22.780
So, so different weekends, different families will take church.
00:10:27.000
And another thing that damage do is, uh, we have church every other weekend.
00:10:35.300
And then that gives them enough time to, you know, move church to the next place.
00:10:40.520
And you have to pick up all the books, pick up all the benches and then move it over to
00:10:47.100
You also have to make all the food and then people, people come and help you.
00:10:51.000
So it's part of the culture is like, it's kind of exciting when you get to have church at
00:10:53.660
your place cause then everybody's coming there.
00:10:55.500
Well, it, it, it can be, but it also, it's a bit of like, Oh man, church is at our place.
00:11:09.200
Well, our cats actually stay in the barn cause the Amish don't really have cats in the house.
00:11:18.620
I think they, they might, they might sneak a little bit of that.
00:11:22.500
But sometimes I see cats coming up the pasture.
00:11:27.980
I don't think they're, I don't think they're big enough or fast enough to catch a squirrel.
00:11:32.020
I am alarmed at, uh, how many, not, how many regular people.
00:11:39.140
So if we're, if we're talking English, we call regular people, uh, English people.
00:11:43.940
But if you're talking in Pennsylvania Dutch, if you want a literal transition, translation
00:11:47.920
of it is we call them hoheleat, which a literal translation is high people.
00:11:53.900
But what it means, hoheleat, what that means is like.
00:12:00.040
But we have like a neighbor, that guy's from like Australia.
00:12:03.040
Like I think it's called land down under stuff.
00:12:10.220
There's definitely, there's just people that'll drink beer.
00:12:13.640
There's a couple of Down syndrome guys down there who drink beer out of the oven.
00:12:18.220
And I even saw some guys like they, they drink, they take off their shoe and they like pour
00:12:23.100
like, like some stuff in their shoe and drink it right out of.
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I think they must have, uh, look at these guys right here and they're Australian.
00:12:47.180
So they're, you know, they're a bit shorter too.
00:12:53.760
Especially if you're like, I thought if you'd be upside down, like on the bottom side of the
00:13:02.800
I think they missed a, uh, they missed a column, dude.
00:13:10.080
Um, so non-Amish people, you call them ho, ho, ho.
00:13:23.480
That's, that's, uh, it's a, it's not a, like Damish don't see it as offensive.
00:13:29.340
It's, it's just a term to describe something like our horses, you know, some are standard
00:13:34.040
bread, you know, and then some are brown, some are black.
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Like we even have some like, like white horse with like black spots on them.
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We're getting a lot of that outside of Atlanta.
00:13:51.820
I, I heard they like, that's close to where like the Dukes of Hazzard were made, I think.
00:14:05.080
And then, yeah, I watched a little bit of Dukes of Hazzard.
00:14:11.080
It was, it was before I had a battery and stuff to, I had to go charge it somewhere else.
00:14:15.100
And just before I had a bat, like all prepared, you know, that way I don't run out of power.
00:14:19.660
I used to watch, I watched them a lot because I was Amish.
00:14:28.980
Dude, my coworker, Atlee, he's, he's pretty, he's pretty stacked when it comes to DVDs.
00:14:33.520
Cause he's got like, like a drawer full of like all kinds of movies.
00:14:39.400
But like his, like his parents, I think they kind of know, but they don't like, they don't bother.
00:14:48.500
Well, I don't know if he had Dukes of Hazzard, but he had like lots of different, other different
00:14:53.000
ones, like, like Smoking the Bandit, like Grumpy Old Man.
00:15:00.600
I think he's like, he wants to get her like Fast and Furious too.
00:15:16.480
Yeah, like the, the ones, they almost, you mean like the, like Laura?
00:15:22.380
I mean, that's a child, but I mean, yeah, I don't even know, the mom.
00:15:32.560
She's getting older probably, but who knows what could happen.
00:15:35.580
You know, they're doing a lot of like, there's a lot of biohacking and stuff now, but I'm just
00:15:41.760
Like, and now with this, with this something in Amish culture, if you see these dames,
00:15:46.120
these young ladies, is that something you're attracted to growing up?
00:15:48.520
Cause this almost had, they almost have like an, a little bit of an Amish feel to them.
00:15:56.160
Like if you'd have seen this when you were 12 or something and you look at Mary Ingalls
00:16:00.040
right here, the older sister, you'd be like, oh, she's cute.
00:16:06.340
Cause we grew up watching this and it was great.
00:16:13.480
So dude, the one guy has white hair on his beard.
00:16:18.140
That guy, he's actually, I think that guy's deceased, but, um, you mentioned being on
00:16:35.520
Now I've, I've heard of where like families like didn't let their kids go on it, but like
00:16:42.000
But like they, when that, sometimes when that happens, like the kid just leaves and like
00:16:50.840
Oh, cause they feel they can't, they're not allowed to, that the family's not following
00:16:54.720
No, the, uh, everyone can go on Rumspringer, like Rumspringer.
00:16:58.600
Every single, now every single, like every single community that does Rumspringer, like,
00:17:06.800
Cause what happens is around 16, 16 and a half, you go, you join Rumspringer, which we, what
00:17:28.020
So that's when you go to like sing-ins after church.
00:17:31.780
Now, I never, I never really, really went, went, went to one because when I went on Rumspringer,
00:17:39.820
the church was kind of already going down because our church kind of, it's kind of split
00:17:45.740
Actually, our bishop kind of, he kind of booked out, he kind of decked out.
00:17:50.560
So right now there's, there's, we still have church, but it's like only like an hour, like
00:17:59.600
They're, they're still Amish and then, but they're not a member of the church anymore
00:18:02.940
anymore because when it opens in the Swartzen Trooper Amish.
00:18:08.000
Like, so when the, when the church doesn't come to agreement for like a, for a while and
00:18:13.620
then it's kind of, it's kind of like a rule that they have to open the doors and then whoever
00:18:18.820
wants to go can, you know, get out of the, no longer be a member of the church and doesn't
00:18:26.280
Uh, that's only, that's only when you're like trying to church already.
00:18:31.080
So members of the church, if the church is, if for some reason there's diff, there's
00:18:34.520
some problem within that church where they're not able to, uh, like maybe obviously there
00:18:41.580
Well, the, like the, like the people in the community and the bishop and like the, like
00:18:53.780
Well, that's actually, this is a very rare thing to happen.
00:18:56.700
The bishop just like, it was months, it was probably over a year of like this stuff happening,
00:19:01.140
but it was usually like the, like the smallest things.
00:19:03.800
And I think it like annoyed some of the, uh, like the people in the congregation.
00:19:11.740
Cause I know, I know if a guy like they came to his house cause he's certain cause
00:19:16.360
his, the curtains on his window were like not the right shade of blue or, or even the
00:19:21.120
reflectors on the Buc-ee's cause some, our Buc-ee's don't have that many reflectors, not
00:19:25.500
compared to like Buc-ee's in Ohio, Indiana and Pennsylvania.
00:19:34.760
And yeah, we don't have, we don't have that reflection.
00:19:37.320
Actually go, go to the left, that Buc-ee that's white horse.
00:19:45.740
And there were, there was, what was their reflector on the front or the back of a Buc-ee like
00:19:54.080
So the Bishop had too many reflectors on his Buc-ee?
00:19:56.260
Like the members had too many reflectors on their Buc-ee and they got, they got after him
00:20:02.140
Like the Bishop, though, the Bishop doesn't even live in this community.
00:20:05.720
He lives down there because our Bishop before, he actually, actually died in a house fire.
00:20:12.360
Like the whole, the whole house burnt down and.
00:20:18.860
I think, I think it was something with a stove in the wash house and this was a hot
00:20:23.920
It was 20, it was 20 below and this hot fire, I was told it was hot.
00:20:29.920
And it was, and maybe it wasn't 20 below, but it was definitely 10 below or so.
00:20:38.640
And the, when the, when the people came out, the like, the people in the red, the people
00:20:45.500
That they had to like keep the water on us or the holes wouldn't freeze.
00:20:52.060
And apparently when she came out, it was so hot.
00:20:54.540
She just laid on the snow and like, she was fine for a little bit, but she had like,
00:20:58.880
she had a little bit of burns and stuff like that.
00:21:07.460
So I think it was, I think it was an accident, but that wouldn't be too funny if she like.
00:21:14.840
That, that would be, wouldn't that be like illegal?
00:21:19.460
The hojile are always killing their spouses for insurance money.
00:21:33.580
But I guess if you don't have life insurance and you don't have to worry about it.
00:21:43.160
Damage, like damage, like, like back in the wars, I think the government tried to force us
00:21:48.740
like to go to wars, but we're like pacifists and stuff.
00:21:51.560
Like, yeah, we'll, we'll like wrestle and stuff when we were younger and, and, and then
00:21:58.500
But other than that, like we don't like kill each other.
00:22:04.800
Cause back in like the wars and stuff, like we, we just did like all the cooking and the
00:22:13.940
The Amis were subject to the military draft in us wars, but due to their religious beliefs
00:22:17.860
as pacifists, they were usually classified as conscientious objectors and assigned to non-combatant
00:22:26.560
World War one and two, Amish men were drafted, but most received farm deferments or performed
00:22:32.800
Some were sent to army camps and suffered abuse when refusing military service entirely.
00:22:39.060
And in rare cases, some were in prison for refusing all forms of service.
00:22:43.700
Like the Amish, the, and where the Amish came from, like, like they went through a lot
00:22:49.340
It's like, there's a, there's a book actually where the Amish came from was like from the
00:22:55.020
Like those were all, like those were like the, like the OGs.
00:22:57.920
They came all the back, all the way from the Catholic church.
00:23:02.620
Did the Amish have to fight to establish themselves in America?
00:23:06.720
Uh, that I'm not actually very sure, but I know like when, when, uh, like when
00:23:12.700
back, I think it was back in the seventies, I think that they had to fight like court and
00:23:18.380
I think they went through a lot of like court stuff, but like for that stuff, I think they
00:23:22.780
did, but also like the government also agreed cause this is like a free country and stuff.
00:23:28.180
And, um, while not armed struggles, the Amish sometimes faced legal and social battles, especially
00:23:33.380
regarding education and their right to practice their faith freely.
00:23:37.820
Notably in the 20th century, they opposed laws that would force their children into public
00:23:41.860
high schools, sometimes resulting in imprisonment or property laws for Amish parents.
00:23:47.360
So they've had to fight to, to maintain their way of life.
00:23:53.920
It like, it varies from community to community, but yeah, like, uh, there, there is pride in
00:24:00.020
Like we don't believe in being prideful, but that's like something like you feel good
00:24:04.960
So yeah, it's a little bit different than being like, being like, um, egotistical about
00:24:09.120
and just having some like confidence in your, in your, uh, group.
00:24:14.080
Hey fellas, I know a lot of y'all work hard out there.
00:24:16.920
You out there working hard, sweating out there, letting us, and that stank is coming out of
00:24:24.060
Sometimes you don't even have to be doing much.
00:24:26.200
You standing out there right on the job site and you start to stank.
00:24:30.600
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00:25:38.380
Do you, do Amish people have to go to public school or do you go to your own school?
00:25:46.940
I sent pictures of it at the schoolhouse to that white building.
00:25:50.840
So the building in the front there, that's where, uh, where all the horses kept.
00:25:54.780
Now, since I'm more kids, we had to build another, like a little shelter for the horses.
00:26:03.880
I thought you meant the cheerleaders or something.
00:26:05.520
No, we don't have cheerleaders because that'd be like, they're like, like they barely wear
00:26:13.300
Yeah, I've never, I've never loved a basketball game so much that I got in my underwear for
00:26:19.680
And like, even when they go to the beach and stuff, like they're just in their underwear.
00:26:25.120
Some of them get dressed up more for the beach even.
00:26:31.560
But, but, but so you go to school there, you put your horses in the front building?
00:26:36.620
And there's, does everybody have their own horse or sometimes people come in groups?
00:26:40.560
Like fam, one family usually has one horse and then like the, we have building, uh, like
00:26:46.140
a building and then like one through eighth grade is like, we all sit in there and then,
00:26:55.460
So one year we actually had like 25 kids and like one building, that was like the most
00:27:04.500
So like we started out with like 10 and then as it went up 14, 16, 20, and then 25.
00:27:11.680
And then it kind of slowed down, like came down from there.
00:27:14.640
But yeah, like first, that's where I went to school first through eighth grade and everyone's
00:27:18.540
sitting in the same room and then we have classes too.
00:27:25.460
But it was, I didn't really like school when I went to school.
00:27:28.260
So what, and what, when does the school day start?
00:27:31.100
So that's usually, if I remember right, it was like, it was 830, I think 830 school starts.
00:27:37.980
And then we sing like three, four hymns and then that usually lasts 15, 20 minutes.
00:27:48.280
Some like to go from eighth grade down and others like to go from first grade up.
00:27:51.940
So, and then after that, it's, it's, uh, it's recess, like 15 minutes.
00:28:01.600
And then until we would do arithmetic until lunch, which is like all around 1130.
00:28:07.540
And school goes out like only, only for a little bit, for like an hour.
00:28:12.360
Uh, no, no, we, we pack our lunch, we eat at school, we sit at our desk and eat.
00:28:17.400
And then usually that takes like around 20 minutes, 15, 20 minutes.
00:28:22.460
And then we go out and play different games and we play like, uh, what was it?
00:28:28.300
Oh yeah, we played, we played a game that we call rapid.
00:28:36.060
And then, so what you do is there's a person in the middle as a ball.
00:28:51.400
So we used to throw the ball up and it was, if someone threw it.
00:28:57.040
I got to get better at explaining this, but it's kind of.
00:29:10.460
Tennis ball was like my favorite because you could throw it better and it wouldn't hurt as much if it hit you.
00:29:16.460
Because, so you're, you're supposed to throw it up five times.
00:29:19.920
And if you throw it up five times and no one runs through to the other base, then you can go on one base and count to basically do a countdown.
00:29:28.040
And then if no one goes off of that base and goes through before you're done, you can just, even though they're on base, you can go touch them and, you know, get them out.
00:29:40.220
But would this, would this be a game boys would play with boys?
00:29:47.880
So, like, it depends on like, it depends how rough, like, the, the harder you try to get away, I guess you were, you accepted the roughness and you were basically, you run through and try not to get caught.
00:30:01.020
And then you, then someone takes you down on the ground, you crawl, you crawl for the base.
00:30:25.080
Or what did girls who were definitely girls, like some girls played this game, but what did like the real girls do?
00:30:31.180
The, the real girls always, like, we always were together.
00:30:33.620
Like we always, we always helped each other play.
00:30:37.280
But it like, when it was like a rainy day or something, like sometimes we played board games and then not as much, but most times like we all played with each other because we didn't know stuff yet.
00:30:48.540
Because we don't get taught that stuff in school or anything.
00:30:52.500
Like the, uh, about girls and we don't really know too much about each other, I guess.
00:30:58.260
Oh, so everybody's just kind of like just all the same.
00:31:04.140
Like at some point, do people feel some attraction?
00:31:06.160
Like, do you think like, uh, maybe, maybe, but so the school I went to, I, I couldn't really do that because, uh, pretty much everyone I went to school with was either the first or second cousin.
00:31:23.040
And, you know, that's why we got to do some of this redistricting and rezoning.
00:31:27.000
Yeah, we got to, like, read, like, rezone, like, move out, move in.
00:31:31.280
That's what, that's what a lot of Amish been doing around us and moving out to different communities.
00:31:35.120
I guess it's a good thing then you can, you know, you know, spread the family tree because sometimes the tree becomes a bush.
00:31:44.680
The Amish population experiences a strong founder effect, meaning that their gene pool originates from a small number of original settlers.
00:31:52.480
Most Amish people are distantly related because nearly all Amish in America descended from a small group of about 200 to 500 founders who immigrated from Germany and Switzerland in the 18th century.
00:32:03.280
The genetic closeness increases the likelihood of certain inherited conditions with some rare genetic disorders much more common among Amish than in the general U.S. population.
00:32:11.380
Do you guys have, um, oh, this says cousin marriage.
00:32:22.860
But that, like, it's not really, it's not really, uh, like, uh, forward, like, hey, you can marry a second cousin.
00:32:37.540
Now, I don't know how, because we don't have, like, any family tree and stuff.
00:32:43.020
But we do have, like, a big book that, that tells us, like, all Amish communities, like, in certain states, like, who, like, basically a dictionary for, for, like, Amish people and who's related to who and.
00:32:56.780
It's basically, like, Google for the Amish when it comes to, like, finding, like, oh, yeah, this person's related to this or how old is this person.
00:33:04.680
And it's kind of, even got their, like, addresses and stuff.
00:33:08.620
It's like a book where you can go look and see who's who and how old.
00:33:11.120
Yeah, and how many kids they have and when the kids were born.
00:33:20.500
Because they put, like, they, like, they put, like, two different, was it, two different names on the front, like, whoever, like, put it together and stuff.
00:33:27.560
Because some Amish, like, like, they know, like, who's related to everyone.
00:33:33.040
It's, like, it's almost like they're, like, they're happy, I guess, I guess you could say.
00:33:49.920
Like, it's something they like to do in their spare time.
00:33:55.280
Oh, yeah, you got to, somebody's got to know who's related or you got to be able to ask somebody.
00:33:59.740
So could there be people in your school that are your cousin, you don't even know it?
00:34:03.560
Ah, no, because everyone in the school, like, they drive there with a horse and bucky, so it's fairly close because we have, like, let me think.
00:34:11.360
I, I, I think it's like half, at least half a dozen schools in our, in our, like, community.
00:34:22.800
Do they have, like, learn, like, we're, they were talking about, like, obviously, when cousins get together, things can get crazy.
00:34:29.460
And you might get, get one of the Lord's remixes out there.
00:34:37.200
Um, autism, Amish-tism, I'm sure you guys are seeing it.
00:34:41.020
Somebody will just raise a barn with their eyes, you know, just put a nail through a four by four with their, just, with their, with their, with the sheer, just, you know, with just a blink of an eye.
00:34:48.980
I don't know if we have autism, but, like, we have, like, some with Down syndrome.
00:34:53.460
Cause my great uncle, uh, he has Down syndrome and stuff.
00:35:01.380
Cause me and him, uh, me and him, I don't, like, I, I just remembered that I carried, like, carried wood with him.
00:35:07.600
Like, me and him carried wood into the, like, wood box for a stove, and I don't know why, but apparently I used to tease him a little bit, too.
00:35:16.020
I thought, like, I think I was like, like, six or seven years old.
00:35:33.140
No, he hasn't passed away yet, but I heard recently he's, like, he's not doing, doing too good anymore.
00:35:38.100
But, but he's still, he's still, like, surviving and stuff.
00:35:40.680
But isn't that, like, real, kind of old for a person with, like, Down syndrome and stuff?
00:35:47.120
How old do the, uh, how old do the Down syndrome get, if you don't mind pulling up there?
00:35:52.160
It might be, it might be, like, because he's Amish that he's, like.
00:35:59.160
Because it's probably harder, probably a Down syndrome being out under the bright lights
00:36:02.720
of regular life than it is out there just slurping in the moonlight.
00:36:07.260
The average life expectancy for individuals with Down syndrome is now about 60 years.
00:36:11.980
With many living into their 60s and 70s, thanks to advances in medical care and social inclusion.
00:36:22.600
Well, there was a time when, like, um, McDonald's, a lot of their employees had Down syndrome.
00:36:29.880
And then, so, it caused a lot of people to take people there with Down syndrome.
00:36:34.920
So then they were eating all this McDonald's and it was, like, not good for them.
00:36:53.520
Now there's coffee shops in America and everybody that works there has Down syndrome.
00:37:00.420
I heard Shane Gillis was around the Amish, too, when he was, when he was younger.
00:37:09.260
We had a guy on who completed the Ironman, which was one of the biggest physical challenges
00:37:26.420
What are the conditions of an Ironman, just so we're clear on it?
00:37:29.380
Is one of a series of long-distance triathlon races organized by the World Triathlon Corporation,
00:37:37.680
consisting of a 2.4-mile swim, 112-mile bicycle ride, and 26-mile run.
00:37:49.680
I'd have to, like, build three barns in a day and, like, run up and down to the house
00:37:57.060
Oh, you'd have to jack and gel a million gallons of water, dude.
00:38:00.480
Even if I had Down syndrome, I don't think I could do it.
00:38:05.040
Like, even though, like, I think it'd even be hard for the Amish people, because first
00:38:10.660
Yeah, because we can swim, because, like, the rivers and stuff.
00:38:17.540
But, like, the Amish over in, like, Indiana and Ohio and even Pennsylvania, they got, like,
00:38:24.760
But they got, like, the lowriders, like, the ones that are, like, really close to the
00:38:37.360
No, not the motorized or the ones with, like, pedals and stuff.
00:38:46.300
Like, was he doing it on the horse or, like, the scooter?
00:38:55.800
Yeah, I saw, like, there were a couple, like, Mexican Amish.
00:38:58.340
I was, like, because I, really, like, a couple years ago, there was this Mexican Amish guy.
00:39:09.820
And, like, he could speak, like, like, he could speak, like, the Mexican language.
00:39:14.580
And then, like, he could also speak, like, Pennsylvania Dutch, too.
00:39:21.840
And that must be the craziest if you're Mexican, because then you're like, holy shit, I still
00:39:25.680
have to do all this construction myself, you know?
00:39:27.980
Like, if you're an Amish Mexican, people expect you to build stuff faster than anybody.
00:39:33.580
Yeah, because Mexicans and Amish, we go back and forth.
00:39:39.900
Now, when it comes to sheetrocking, I have to say Mexicans are definitely faster, because
00:39:43.740
they got them long, like, like those metal things that, I think they're called stilts.
00:39:52.100
They, like, held their tape measure, and then walked over, and the one guy, real tall-looking
00:39:58.180
guy, if he had, like, long legs, he was on stilts and stuff.
00:40:11.560
Uh, it's kind of just, it's kind of spontaneous when it happens.
00:40:15.340
You're, like, roughly, roughly 16 and a half when it happens, and your parents are, like,
00:40:19.280
like, like, you can go, and then you kind of just go, like, one night.
00:40:23.760
So do they sit you down at dinner and tell you to?
00:40:28.440
How does it happen that they say, we're going to allow you to go to Rumspringer?
00:40:33.100
It's just kind of, like, hey, you can, you can go there, and then you probably have a couple
00:40:37.340
rules, you know, don't do this, don't do that, but you're probably going to do it anyway.
00:40:42.700
And so, is there a moment, an actual day that you leave?
00:40:46.860
So, when Rumspringer happens and you go to the Yoha, like, you still live at home and
00:40:51.440
stuff, you're still Amish, and then you just do stuff on the weekends that you're not supposed
00:40:57.360
When do you go back to your Amish country, though?
00:40:59.960
Like, when do you go back to your district, to your home?
00:41:03.120
So, when you're in Rumspringer, you're always at home, so don't, like, the, like, so what
00:41:09.400
happens if you're in Rumspringer for, like, it's usually around four to five years.
00:41:14.100
It always depends, and then, though, when you get baptized, it's usually when you have
00:41:19.120
a girlfriend, and then you want to get married.
00:41:21.280
So, that's the reason you get baptized, is to get married, and then, at the same time,
00:41:26.680
Okay, so, before, so, you hit about 16 or something, and your parents say that you can
00:41:32.180
And that means on the weekends, you can go do what you want?
00:41:35.980
And if they don't hear too much about it, you're fine.
00:41:39.720
Yeah, because sometimes you can be like, hey, you can't go this time.
00:41:43.460
And now, do some people choose to stay out in Rumspringer and not come back to the church?
00:41:48.040
Do you have that option, or that's not an option?
00:41:49.540
Yeah, where, like, people, like, leave and become ex-Amish, yeah.
00:41:54.200
And then when, like, Rumspringer ends, it's roughly around 20 to 21.
00:42:00.240
Or sometimes, you know, like, all of a sudden, they realize they have a kid.
00:42:03.820
And then, so, that's not really a good idea, like, to have a kid before you're married.
00:42:08.740
So, like, they either get quickly married, or, like, my cousin, like, his, my cousin, Frank,
00:42:20.700
No, like, he, like, his parents, like, they realized they had him when they were still,
00:42:26.580
like, on Rumspringer and Amish, so they just left.
00:42:29.960
So, so your cousin, his, his parents were both on Rumspringer.
00:42:39.200
And then they realized at that point that they had to leave.
00:42:42.740
Would they have been welcomed back into the church or no?
00:42:45.020
Uh, like, so what happens if that happens, either you leave, or you, like, almost become
00:43:02.680
Like, once you allow, once you decide to leave.
00:43:05.280
So, if you leave and you're already a member of the church, you'll get, you'll get shunned
00:43:10.500
And then if you're not a member, like, on Rumspring, if you leave, it, it varies on the
00:43:15.300
Like, on my dad's side, like, they, they wouldn't really, for the longest time, they wouldn't
00:43:20.300
really be happy or wouldn't really talk to their kids when they came, came and
00:43:26.800
On my mom's side, they were like that for a little bit too, like, in the first.
00:43:30.360
But on my mom's side now, when the, when the ex-Amish kids come back, they're, they're
00:43:36.000
like now 40 and stuff, 30, 40, and maybe even older.
00:43:39.620
Like, they come back, they're welcome, like, all that stuff.
00:43:42.100
But my, on my dad's side, they're, they're still a little bit, a little bit iffy, but
00:43:48.180
So they're coming around a little bit more than they used to.
00:43:50.260
But probably in your grandfather's generation, if somebody was shunned, they might not talk
00:43:55.140
When you get, when you get shunned, uh, you're not supposed to, well, you can talk to them,
00:43:59.600
but you're not supposed to like help them out in any way.
00:44:02.240
Like, you can't accept money from them and you can't, you can't, you're not supposed to
00:44:08.880
Like, uh, like, let's say they were driving, the ones that left, they were driving and stuff,
00:44:12.500
you're not supposed to like, like ride with them.
00:44:16.340
If they can't even stay on the path to heaven, how are they going to keep you on a path when
00:44:21.080
They're going to like take you off the road or something.
00:44:25.420
They're literally going to take you off the road.
00:44:27.240
You know, I never expected to be a business owner.
00:44:30.860
You know, at first we just were podcasting and then, um, things just evolved.
00:44:36.700
You know, one of the toughest points for us was when we started, uh, offering merch, you
00:44:41.280
know, um, we had to get the shipping done and it was just, you know, I'm up in the middle
00:44:48.820
Thankfully ship station showed up to help ship station centralizes your shipping tasks into
00:44:55.660
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00:45:33.940
I'm going to tap a little, I'm going to have a little sip of Celsius cause I need to pick
00:46:00.740
Oh, dude, this stuff actually tastes like, like the grapes that you squeeze out of the,
00:46:06.380
like, not the grapes that you eat from the store, but like the Amish grapes that you can
00:46:10.320
Like the ones that you squeeze out of the, what do you call that?
00:46:15.120
Have you ever had those grapes where you just squeeze them out and you swallow them?
00:46:24.480
They're, they're, uh, they're, yeah, that's how they look.
00:46:27.600
And those, you know how the stores, like they have no seats in them.
00:46:31.820
You just squeeze them out and then you swallow them because if you try to eat them, like chew
00:46:36.260
on them, like, um, like you just bite into the seat and stuff.
00:46:40.180
Oh, you just squeeze them out and swallow them out.
00:46:53.100
So if this, I saw that this does have caffeine in it.
00:47:01.380
Um, what is your Rumspringer experience been like?
00:47:06.460
I've done like the first like year and a half where I didn't do too much cause I wasn't
00:47:11.240
18 yet, but like this summer I've done so many crazy things.
00:47:16.320
Actually last summer I got to drive like a Corvette.
00:47:20.420
Like these two girls, like they let me drive their Corvette.
00:47:27.100
Uh, through my, my uncle, my ex-Amish uncle Simon.
00:47:30.640
And I, I met them through them and dude, I actually was at their wedding though.
00:47:35.460
Like, uh, the one with the black hair, I was at their, like her and her husband's wedding.
00:47:48.780
It was like a horse with like, like some special oats or something.
00:47:53.160
Like put, like put some Celsius in their water.
00:47:55.760
That thing has been eating, uh, diesel dipped carrots right there.
00:48:01.340
And they were like, they were like, well, I think it was overcrowded cause there's only
00:48:05.160
like two seats and then, and then the, she's like sitting in the middle and stuff.
00:48:10.840
You got to have at least one chick hanging out of a Corvette, dude.
00:48:17.200
And then we, we, we, uh, they wanted to get a couple videos cause they thought that was
00:48:24.700
It's great to see you out there just trying some different things.
00:48:27.120
What other things did you try that you found that you liked and didn't like out there?
00:48:33.600
I also got the other, the other, uh, weekend I got to, we went to like, it was Eau Claire,
00:48:39.460
There was like a, like an air show where they had like the Blue Angel airplanes, had all kinds
00:48:45.640
And then they also like, you had to pay a little bit.
00:48:52.740
And I was like, you know, this might be like a week or two of wait, just like of, of me
00:48:58.380
working, but like, I want to go in a helicopter, right?
00:49:01.260
So I was kind of scared to like hold my phone out cause, uh, cause like the helicopters open
00:49:07.260
and stuff, like what happens if you drop it and stuff, but it was really smooth too.
00:49:10.620
And when we took off and like, we took off and stuff, it was like, it was really crazy.
00:49:15.640
It felt like we were like, I felt like I was on a, like on a piece of plywood and I just
00:49:22.340
It was like, it was crazy and it felt really crazy.
00:49:31.760
He, he bust his, like bust his, like cut his hair and stuff.
00:49:40.900
And this guy, I think he, I think he gave a little bit of a longer ride cause we're Amish
00:49:46.300
And he, we like, we went sideways on the, we went sideways on the, like on the, above
00:49:54.300
Cause like if you hit water really far off, it's like, it's pretty much like concrete.
00:49:58.100
I think that we went sideways and almost felt like I was falling off, but I had my trusty
00:50:04.900
So that was, that was a crazy ride, but it was actually kind of smooth.
00:50:09.160
You know, uh, I was actually more scared when I was like a couple of weeks later, I was
00:50:16.280
It was right after I went to your concert, your concert was like really crazy.
00:50:25.720
Like the ball guy was there, the guy that his parents are like from the middle East was
00:50:31.120
And then you came out and then I thought it was really funny.
00:50:34.680
This was actually, you know, before the show, I was jamming out.
00:50:37.840
I was with my cousin Frank and he was like, we were, I was just jamming out to the music.
00:50:42.720
Like, yeah, cause people don't understand this is where we met.
00:50:47.000
And I was like, dude, we've been trying to have an Amish person on and then here God
00:50:57.480
And I said, you know, seal mine would probably, I wanted to give you like wear an Amish hat.
00:51:08.580
Actually, actually, I have a little bit of surprise for you.
00:51:15.860
Dude, I got, so what I did over last week, me and your, uh, the, uh, me and your, some
00:51:23.020
of your strong connections were talking and, uh, I, I, they, they didn't quite know what
00:51:30.000
So it's, it's a bit of an odd thing to like know and stuff, but yeah, it's just an odd
00:51:35.620
But I wanted, uh, we got an estimate size and I wanted to give you this hat.
00:51:40.820
So now you can be like, you can be like part of the Amish mafia.
00:51:46.560
And a hat size, that's just like the waist for your head, you know?
00:51:49.600
You don't want to admit your little fat above the ears, you know?
00:52:11.660
Like, thank you in, uh, German and Pennsylvania Dutch is the same thing.
00:52:22.140
Do you think I would make a good Amish person or not?
00:52:26.300
Well, do you, do you like break a lot of rules and stuff?
00:52:33.460
Like, uh, like, if you don't really break any of the rules, you make a pretty good Amish.
00:52:37.940
I could get my mom to get you some, some Amish clothes for you.
00:52:41.360
Maybe for Christmas, I'll exchange something with you and I could send you something that
00:52:43.980
would be, uh, that your community would accept as well.
00:52:47.020
Are you allowed to accept gifts from people that are not Amish?
00:52:54.180
They, cause they sometimes, like, we all, we had sometimes a guy from, uh, around Christmas
00:52:58.740
time, sometimes a guy, like, brings some stuff and then we, like, he's done it for a couple
00:53:04.420
years and he, like, gives all the younger kids some presents and stuff.
00:53:10.000
Now, I know you had mentioned before that your parents said there's some stuff not to
00:53:12.880
do during Rome Spring, like, what was some of that?
00:53:14.900
Uh, they didn't, they didn't really say too much, but they, they tell me, like, when,
00:53:20.020
uh, when I do something that, uh, that they think, didn't think was, uh, how do I say this?
00:53:30.160
Like, not the, probably, like, cause sometimes I do wild stuff, you know, like, go on the
00:53:37.860
Cause that came around and, but I mean, did they have advice against, like, sex, drugs,
00:53:43.300
Uh, no, not like any, any, like any sex stuff that, that doesn't get talked about.
00:53:47.880
You just kinda, you kinda have to do, like, door to explore.
00:53:50.780
You just kinda have to, you know, go out on the jungle and see, see what bites.
00:54:10.880
I'd rather just play charades with my buddy, like you guys probably do a lot.
00:54:16.220
Oh, it's where someone, like, you write down some movies or TV.
00:54:23.880
Charades is like somebody acts something out and you have to guess what they're acting out.
00:54:31.640
So, like, let's say I was pretending to be the bishop.
00:54:35.380
I'd be like, like, like, my, like, go down here.
00:54:50.580
But you guys don't talk about sex within the Amish community much?
00:54:53.280
Like, at school and stuff, there's not a class that teaches you about it?
00:54:57.760
Will a dad kind of take his son and have, like, a birds and the bees talk?
00:55:07.140
Like, the dad will take you and talk to you about how things work, you know?
00:55:11.460
Like, all of that stuff, you, you actually have to, like, figure out and stuff.
00:55:15.060
But, like, since you got phones and stuff, you can kind of, you know, you can figure it out.
00:55:23.380
But there's some stuff you, I mean, but you're not allowed to look at pornography on your phone and stuff.
00:55:34.500
Since you got into Rumsbury, can you get a girlfriend and stuff like that?
00:55:38.520
Yeah, I can get, like, a girlfriend, like, all that stuff.
00:55:44.540
But, like, if I were to get a, like, a girlfriend that was not Amish, she would either have to become Amish or I would have to, like, leave, like, the Amish.
00:55:53.480
Do you think that there are a lot of women out there who are willing to become Amish?
00:56:02.160
And, you know, I don't know how often it happens.
00:56:05.260
But it's rare where, like, it actually goes through.
00:56:08.440
I know a lot of people want to become Amish, but they're not ready to make, like, the final step towards it.
00:56:17.980
What's the thing that keeps them away from that, makes people afraid to take that final step, do you think?
00:56:22.940
I think it's, like, it's, I think it's a loss of, like, like, your phone, the lights on the ceiling, the fans on the ceiling, like, the vents and holes in the ceiling.
00:56:34.200
And then, like, the couch, the TV, and then whatever else, you know, like, whatever else Hojila used.
00:56:42.260
If you have an Amish wife, does a wife have to provide, like, food and sexuals and stuff for the husband?
00:56:50.100
Or does the wife have, like, a responsibility for, kind of, food and sexuals and stuff?
00:56:54.520
Yeah, so, the way, like, it's, everyone kind of accepts, like, their, like, it's just, how do I say this?
00:57:01.660
It's, like, normal, and you, like, it's where, it's kind of, like, it's where, it's, everyone has a mutual understanding of, like, what they have to do, right?
00:57:11.120
Because, like, the woman, you know, cooks, cleans, you know, takes care of things around the house.
00:57:16.440
And then, like, if she needs help, she'll ask, like, the husband for, like, help.
00:57:22.020
And then, usually, the husband's, you know, gone most of the day working, like, either building houses, plowing the fields, or cutting, like, lumber, or making cabinets, or even polishing cabinets, stuff like that.
00:57:34.000
But, like, they help each other when they're, when they're, like, at, like, at home, like, if it needs.
00:57:40.420
But, yeah, like, the, like, the wife does cooking, cleaning, taking care of the kids.
00:57:47.420
Right here, it says, Amish women mainly focus on housekeeping, child-rearing, gardening, and food preparation.
00:57:53.380
Many manage home finances, have their names on property deeds, and control the family checkbook.
00:57:59.560
Women nurture the spiritual life of the children and are active in maintaining Amish cultural practices.
00:58:05.940
So, women have a pretty strong voice in the Amish community.
00:58:14.400
Like, do they make some cool stuff, or what are some good Amish meals?
00:58:17.560
Like, the Amish, the Amish make, I'd say make some of the best food, like, especially grandma.
00:58:22.360
She had a lot of experience in the, like, in the field, stuff.
00:58:25.160
Or, it's how you mean, like, she has a lot of experience in, like, the field of cooking and stuff.
00:58:29.580
Like, her breadsticks, they're, like, out of this world.
00:58:49.620
Yeah, they, and they're, and they're just, they're really good.
00:58:53.000
And my favorite meal, like, let's say we're doing a lot of stuff, like, building something,
00:58:58.020
or, like, a frolic, where, like, the whole community comes together and-
00:59:02.060
Yeah, that's, like, when, uh, the whole community comes together and builds something, like, a barn.
00:59:06.780
Yeah, and then, like, they'll make, they'll make some, either some chicken,
00:59:10.640
or some burgers with mashed potatoes, corn, and, like, I think you would call, like,
00:59:16.980
like, uh, it's, like, like, uh, mac and cheese.
00:59:21.920
And then you put some, so what we do, if our food's, like, hot, we put some applesauce on it, mix it up.
00:59:28.060
And then it's nice and cool, and then pork and beans, too.
00:59:31.120
Oh, if the food's hot, you'll put applesauce on it?
00:59:34.700
So, like, the, that's, like, one of my favorite meals.
00:59:36.940
And then, even better, like, if you have steak and stuff, like, if you have steak, that's really good.
00:59:44.940
Oh, we have, we have pretty good dessert, too, like, like, pies.
00:59:53.840
I'm not sure what they all put in them, because I know how to make scrambled eggs, and that's about it.
00:59:59.380
And, like, yeah, they put, what is it, like, uh.
01:00:04.140
What's a popular pie that you have, or a popular dessert?
01:00:07.060
A popular pie is, uh, shoofly pie is one of them.
01:00:16.360
I've not really, I mean, we don't have it very often, but another pie that's really good is mince pie, like, uh, pumpkin pie, that's really good.
01:00:47.060
Um, what are the fears of having a girlfriend that's not Amish, just that they won't understand the religion and the culture?
01:00:52.960
Like, like, the biggest fear would be that, like, the church or, like, the parents would find out.
01:00:59.720
But is it okay if she decides to join the church, it's okay?
01:01:06.640
It's like, it's almost as rare as, like, the bishop leaving the community.
01:01:12.000
If she was, if she was fully Amish, yeah, she would be welcome.
01:01:15.100
Now, she might get a little bit of looks in the beginning, but, yeah, as long as she's fully Amish, that would be good.
01:01:23.660
You can, you can handle a little bit of looks out of the gate.
01:01:29.540
Uh, yeah, like, like, like, uh, like, when we were little kids, we used to tickle each other.
01:01:38.940
Yeah, I don't think people should keep doing it, but I'm just making sure it's allowed when you're kids.
01:01:45.260
Like, what kind of stuff do people do to pass the time?
01:01:47.640
Like, either ride horses, the ponies, like, pony cars, and then also hide-and-seek, that's pretty fun.
01:01:56.240
And then, oh, yeah, we play board games or just play with cars, play with blocks.
01:02:03.440
I, I used to play, like, underneath the porch or in the garden.
01:02:07.040
I used to, we used to have a lot of, a lot of, like, cars and stuff.
01:02:10.240
And I used to, like, pretend there was, like, a whole world there in the, in the garden.
01:02:14.720
So, mom didn't really like, when I played in the garden, when it was, like, all, all the corn was up, the potatoes.
01:02:20.880
Like, I actually liked playing when it was corn, corn was up, and then, uh, the potatoes, because it was, like, it was way more possibilities for imagination.
01:02:34.920
Yeah, and, but if the, it was, the garden didn't work out, or either that or just play under the porch.
01:02:42.520
Like, three feet high, so, the older I got, the more, the more I hit my head on, up on the, up on the porch.
01:02:50.520
That's when I decided, you know, if I do play in, like, when I do play with cars and stuff, and out in the dirt, like, the, the garden's the place to be.
01:02:59.700
And do people start dating within the Amish culture at a certain age, or is it kind of taboo, or how does it work?
01:03:05.240
Like, is there a dance, like, at school where you can invite a girl to a dance?
01:03:08.600
Like, how does dating and that sort of, like, adolescent attraction kind of stuff like that, where you trying to get, you know, you trying to, uh, you know, meet a girl, or if you have a first kiss?
01:03:19.780
What's that, how's that whole universe in the Amish culture?
01:03:22.140
So, like, our school only goes until 8th grade, so we're out of school in, like, 13 or 14, so.
01:03:27.880
Yeah, completely done, and then you go to work.
01:03:31.420
Yeah, so, we didn't, I don't even know what high school is, or public school, or, like, I've never been there.
01:03:40.080
High school's just doing drugs and trying not to die of, uh, driving while intoxicated and stuff.
01:03:45.260
Yeah, like, like, if, if that happened, never happens for us, like, our horse will just take us home.
01:03:52.340
You basically have an original, you kind of have, like, one of the self-driving cars.
01:03:55.020
Yeah, because if you fall asleep on your horse, you know, it might not be the safest way, you know, because you might, you know, go a little bit over on the road, but as long as the people with, like, steering wheels and stuff, they'll be, as long as they're, like, okay and stuff, the horse will, like, go home.
01:04:08.760
And, like, so, the way it works for, like, dating, if you're, like, what is it?
01:04:13.580
Like, so, like, 16 and a half, like, some, it depends on the parents.
01:04:16.880
Like, my mom and dad, like, they weren't really allowed to, like, become, like, date, like, official boyfriend, girlfriend, uh, until, like, until they were 18.
01:04:28.340
But, like, in our community, like, right now, like, like, it basically happens whenever now, like, as soon as you join, like, the, like, room springer, like, you can.
01:04:38.740
And usually the way you meet and hang out is through sing-ins, like, after church or at, like, weekend parties.
01:04:45.960
So, weekend parties, are those, do those happen in your district or those happen off of property?
01:04:50.900
That, it, it all, it varies where the Amish party is.
01:04:54.020
Sometimes it happens when the, like, sometimes when the parents aren't home, we go to, like, uh, we go to, like, their place and party there.
01:05:02.300
So, at Amish parties, will people just, like, are people drinking and stuff like that?
01:05:07.600
Yeah, yeah, like, drinking and then, like, even, like, the vapes things popped up, too, like.
01:05:19.400
But also, like, cigarettes and then, then sometimes we go, like, oh.
01:05:25.560
A lot of Amish look like they would smoke a pipe.
01:05:27.500
Older, the older ones, too, but they, like, the ones that are, the younger ones usually don't.
01:05:31.420
They usually stick to cigarettes and stuff like that.
01:05:34.260
But sometimes, like, we'll, we'll go to, like, an ex-Amish person's house and party up there.
01:05:41.220
And when do you, if you, if you're doing rump spring, when do you have to be back at home?
01:05:50.400
You probably want to be home, like, you know, before the morning so you get a little bit of sleep.
01:05:55.240
Or there's not, not church, you can come home, or you can't, just, it just, like, depends.
01:06:02.680
But usually, like, when I, when I do it, I usually don't come home until, like, later Sunday.
01:06:08.280
And do they drug test you or whatever, if you're Amish?
01:06:11.140
No, no, we don't have to do any, like, drug tests.
01:06:16.620
Because y'all got y'all's own year-long Halloween going on out there in the fields.
01:06:19.700
I'm like, yeah, like, sometimes, like, sometimes in the woods, the fields, like, just depends where the spot is.
01:06:25.640
Yeah, but now, like, all Amish that, like, party and stuff, like, our number one way of, like, talking to each other is through, like, Snapchat.
01:06:35.560
Yeah, like, if you, uh, if they've been Amish, like, a young Amish person that is roughly my age, if they have a phone, like, a smartphone, they have Snapchat.
01:06:46.440
When was the first time you saw a phone or a screen, do you remember?
01:06:49.860
Uh, I think it was one time, it was not the first time, but I remember this one time when one of my ex-Amish uncles was at our place with this girlfriend, and, and she let me look, like, look on her phone, and I was, like, sitting right beside her, and she, she grabbed out her phone, and she, like, started texting someone, and she was, she was flying through, like, the keyboard and stuff.
01:07:11.380
If you were, like, swiping, little lines, and all of a sudden, words popped up, like, it was, like, it was, like, bop, bop, bop, bop, the words, like, almost as fast as you can, like, talk, and stuff.
01:07:20.120
I was, like, really surprised, so that's, like, that's, like, the, like, I'd say, like, the first, some of the first memories.
01:07:28.860
Um, what things are forbidden in you guys' culture, kind of?
01:07:31.500
Uh, a lot of things are, like, electricity, um, like, having a smartphone, we're allowed to have, like, phones for, like, our businesses, like, phone shacks and stuff, and then TVs, what else, like, pretty much anything that, like, doesn't have, like, that, that requires, like, electricity and stuff, and also, like, certain, certain color of, like, shirts, dresses, if it's too bright, it can also be, like, like,
01:08:01.500
like, you can, the bishop or deacon will talk to you about it.
01:08:09.460
And also, if your haircut's, like, way short, so my, my haircut's, like, like, okay, because my mom gives me a haircut every time.
01:08:16.860
Yeah, so, I've never actually had a different kind of haircut.
01:08:23.560
You, you could have probably have an Amish haircut, too.
01:08:28.020
Yeah, you just let the, just let the hair in front of the ear grow, you know.
01:08:33.740
Block a little bit of the sound, like, to the ear and stuff.
01:08:37.540
I would have enjoyed being Amish, I think, man.
01:08:40.600
How are regular people and Amish people different from each other, have you gathered?
01:08:44.320
How, how do they seem different from each other?
01:08:46.120
So, like, the main thing I've noticed is, like, like, a lot of Amish are, when they're in public,
01:08:54.120
it seems like they're, like, a bit, like, a bit more respectful, I guess.
01:08:58.320
Another thing that's big, I guess, like, so, if we, like, if we did something that was
01:09:03.400
big and wrong, like, some, one time, my little brother, he stumped lots of corn down in our
01:09:07.900
cornfield, and, and he got a spanking from that.
01:09:11.180
Like, that's, I guess that's the difference, because I see a lot of kids don't, like, I
01:09:20.640
I mean, I don't think kids should get abused, but sometimes a spanking is okay, I think.
01:09:23.860
Yeah, because this is, like, like, getting beat up, and, and, because, like, because
01:09:29.680
we never got, like, beat up or anything, but, like, if we did something bad, we got, like,
01:09:33.580
like, three cracks, it was, like, a, like, a belt or something, that, but we never got
01:09:39.020
abused and stuff, so, like, just, I guess, discipline.
01:09:43.100
Oh, so discipline is something that seems stronger in the Amish community?
01:09:48.080
Are there any crimes that are popular in Amish land?
01:09:50.460
I'm not quite sure, maybe, maybe, like, taxes sometimes, because I don't, some people
01:09:55.780
don't, like, file taxes and stuff, like, because the only tax that we get, like, that are we
01:10:00.100
free from, that Amish don't get taxed, it's, like, social security tax, so, when we get
01:10:04.920
old, the government doesn't, like, pay us and stuff.
01:10:07.240
Oh, they don't, so you don't have to pay into that?
01:10:10.680
When you join the church, you get, like, the bishop and the government, I guess, work
01:10:15.720
together, to where you're, like, exempt from the social security tax, but that's, like,
01:10:21.560
the only tax that I know of that you're, like, exempt from.
01:10:24.020
Other than that, like, if, but if you don't file taxes, because I know some don't, but other
01:10:31.480
The Amish are exempt from social security and Medicare taxes, FICA, if they formally
01:10:36.460
reject benefits and file for exemption due to their belief in mutual community support.
01:10:41.180
Wow, so you guys feel like you don't need that, you support each other, huh?
01:10:43.900
Yeah, a lot of Amish don't have insurance for stuff, too, and, uh, so, when, like,
01:10:49.840
Well, hell no, I don't think you could insure them, you know?
01:10:52.520
But for business, I don't, I think for businesses, they somehow do what I think.
01:10:56.320
But for, like, let's say you, like, let's say you fall off a roof or something, you hurt
01:10:59.960
yourself, and then, let's say you go to a hospital, because I know the hospital, like,
01:11:06.260
They, they, I don't know where they come up with the crazy numbers, but.
01:11:09.140
They'll take you through the rumspringa, you know?
01:11:10.840
They will, they'll drag, they'll, like, drag you through it.
01:11:16.620
Or, like, a horse runs away, and you're trying to hang on, and you're, like, scraping across
01:11:20.060
the gravel and stuff, but, yeah, but, like, like, all the community helps pay for
01:11:30.320
So, you guys might have a day where you're, like, Mr. So-and-so needs help, or Ms. So-and-so
01:11:38.880
Like, for example, what are things you would go help a neighbor do?
01:11:41.740
Ah, like, really with anything, putting away hay, we've done that lots of times, or,
01:11:47.260
like, building a barn, like, we've done that, too.
01:11:52.080
Like, if they need help, like, a day or so, we'll come together and help each other.
01:11:56.500
But, and I know back in the day, we used to help each other, like, someone does hay, and
01:12:03.720
then everyone helps this person do hay, then that person also, like, it's just a group effort.
01:12:09.000
This person, this person, this person, like, all around the community.
01:12:17.820
Oh, yeah, most Amish, they don't, they still farm a little bit, but most of them do, like,
01:12:26.220
So the Amish are farming less than they used to?
01:12:28.560
Yeah, because, like, it's, it's not as sustainable anymore.
01:12:31.740
Because when my dad was growing up, all they do is farm and milk cows.
01:12:37.820
So, what are some popular products, like you said, like, cabinets and stuff?
01:12:41.420
You see a lot of those, you see cabinets, you see furnaces sometimes?
01:12:44.980
I don't know if that's a real thing, or that's just something that is made up, and they claim
01:12:52.440
Now, I, I'm not sure quite where those come from.
01:12:56.120
Like, like, the furnaces, because there's welling to it.
01:12:58.880
Now, they might, they might get it from, like, a, from, like, a person that's not Amish.
01:13:04.780
The biggest shift in Amish economic life in the last century has been from agriculture
01:13:11.180
In the early 1900s, nearly all Amish families depended on farming for their livelihood.
01:13:14.960
Today, only about 10% do, with the majority now involved in various trades, crafts, retail.
01:13:24.000
Construction and woodworking, carpentry, cabinet making, and now famous Amish furniture shops.
01:13:34.920
Yeah, like, selling Amish food, too, and quilts, and a lot of stuff like that.
01:13:41.700
And how, will you guys have, like, places on your property where people come and buy them,
01:13:45.820
or do you take them off property and people buy them there?
01:13:47.740
Usually, like, if you have a greenhouse or, like, a place where, like, the, like, where you
01:13:57.240
can buy, like, food and stuff, that's usually, like, a little building on the property, so.
01:14:04.460
Or, like, there's a farmer's market where Amish go to, like, a town for a day, and they bring
01:14:09.540
all the baked goods and, you know, stuff like that.
01:14:12.040
And there's also a lot of Amish places, like, a lot of places where Amish are, where it's,
01:14:17.460
They offer tours, and then they bring them around, and then it's kind of like the Amish
01:14:21.540
mall, but it's, like, like, the stores are, like, really far apart from each other, like,
01:14:26.620
But, yeah, they bring them around, and they get to see an Amish, you know, Amish farm.
01:14:30.480
I think they're called, like, Amish tours and, like, tours, stuff like that.
01:14:34.460
And then, and then you can, like, stop at the Amish place and, like, buy something from,
01:14:41.440
Yeah, we've been up there before and stopped at some places that I think we're having cheese
01:14:47.540
But, like, usually we only, like, make ice cream through the winter, because you just
01:14:50.880
grab the snow out of the ground and put it in a bucket and...
01:14:57.060
Like, if it was, if we had ice or something cold that you put around the, around the thing where
01:15:02.360
you make ice cream, because you got to crank the ice cream.
01:15:05.020
Got to, like, you crank, and then the thing in the middle spins around the ice, and...
01:15:14.640
I know you said in the beginning there's some different synopsis, people sneak in some
01:15:19.880
Is there a lot of Amish songs and dancing as well, or no?
01:15:23.060
In our community, there's not really any dancing.
01:15:25.480
There's, like, the only, like, the only music, songs that are really louder would be, like,
01:15:30.820
like, like, German hymns, but then, like, on the, uh, then sometimes we, like, sneak
01:15:40.660
Like, like, uh, like, what is it, like, Def Leppard, Bon Chovy, you know, a lot of Amish,
01:15:48.600
like, rock and roll, and then, I guess, house EDM music, and then also, like, a lot of country,
01:15:54.300
like, Garth Brooks, Mark and Wallen, people like that.
01:15:57.580
But I also listen to, like, a little bit of rap stuff, like, Amish Paradise is, that's
01:16:10.760
Amish Paradise, that's a pretty, I love that song.
01:16:15.600
He looks a little bit mad there, but it was a pretty good song.
01:16:19.220
He probably pissed his horse ran off or whatever.
01:16:21.440
Yeah, something like that, because, like, his horse was pretty good at backing all the
01:16:26.500
Yeah, and then, also, like, I like to listen to a little bit of, like, rap stuff, too.
01:16:36.060
Yeah, like, uh, like, I don't really listen to what he says, I looked at the lyrics, like,
01:16:40.620
a couple times, and, like, there are, there's, the lyrics aren't the best, but, like, I like
01:16:45.620
the way it sounds, like, like the, like the, like the, sounds like, like wind chimes, and
01:17:01.760
Let me think about what else we can talk about.
01:17:04.960
I'm gonna take that down and keep this up here.
01:17:09.020
I'm just gonna make sure that you're always here in spirit, dude.
01:17:13.500
What, I wanna ask you something, um, with the risk of people leaving the community and stuff,
01:17:17.860
are families still very close, or do they only get closer after people join the church?
01:17:26.300
So, like, most of the time, like, the family's very close, unless, like, when the, when the
01:17:31.420
kids and the parents, like, like, they don't agree on stuff, and then they leave, that's
01:17:35.720
like the, like, the time when, like, they don't, they're not as close anymore.
01:17:40.360
It, it depends on the person, I guess, and the parents, too.
01:17:43.840
Is it pretty heartbreaking when that happens in the community?
01:17:45.840
Yeah, it's, it's like, when I was younger, I was like, when someone left, it's almost
01:17:52.460
Not quite, but it almost felt like that, but since I got older, I understand it a bit
01:17:56.360
more, and it's, uh, it's not as bad as, like, it used to be, so.
01:18:02.540
Yeah, I was, I was, like, really skinny when I was, when I was younger.
01:18:11.640
It's like an Amish movie, it's like a historical Amish film or whatever.
01:18:20.520
When he's younger, but he's classy guy, he's a great guy.
01:18:31.460
What have you decided about Rumspringer and what you're going to do with your family and
01:18:40.240
Like, I, the final, the final decision will probably be in, like, probably within, like,
01:18:46.580
And then, I, it depends if I leave or, you know, join the church and, well, right now
01:18:51.140
you actually can't really join the church because, like, there's no bishop.
01:18:54.320
You can't, you can join other churches that are, like, a little bit of ways in a different
01:18:58.020
But, like, yeah, it'll probably be, like, two years until I, you know, like, make my
01:19:02.400
final decision because it's kind of a big decision.
01:19:06.000
Uh, what would be the thing you think that would draw you out of the faith, that would
01:19:09.820
draw you out of the church and out of the district?
01:19:12.920
Uh, I would think, like, like, if I wanted to do something, like, something that would,
01:19:19.240
like, something I'm doing right now, like this podcast, like, something worldly, and, like,
01:19:24.900
they'd probably come down on me for, like, doing something like that, I guess, would
01:19:28.940
drive me away a little bit because, I don't know, it feels a little bit, like, a little
01:19:33.680
bit restrictive, but, like, I guess that's the only thing I would think.
01:19:39.860
But you don't feel like doing this podcast will mess up your opportunity to go back or
01:19:48.760
I want you to be able to make the best choice for yourself no matter what.
01:19:51.040
It sounds like a really beautiful community, is it?
01:19:56.040
It sounds like you have a lot of, like, community, a lot of sense of togetherness, you know?
01:20:01.000
A lot of, like, you feel, do you feel a strong sense of purpose being Amish?
01:20:07.920
Ah, yeah, like, you, like, kind of uphold the honor, you know, work hard, you know, the
01:20:16.360
harder you work, the better, because you get, you stay in shape, and then the more you can
01:20:22.760
help out is always better, because I love helping out people and making people stay.
01:20:34.760
I think that's one way we really fill ourselves up, is, like, doing something for somebody else,
01:20:39.860
And it seems like you get to do a lot of that in your community, so there's probably a
01:20:47.800
Are siblings really close in your community, or is that kind of not...
01:20:53.540
Yeah, usually, like, the siblings are usually close, you know?
01:21:02.820
So, usually the brothers and the sisters, they're usually keep, like, the sisters are closer
01:21:09.660
to themselves, and the brothers are, like, closer to themselves.
01:21:18.440
I, like, he, like, he doesn't, like, he doesn't really, like, he probably wouldn't care if
01:21:25.520
I put his, like, face up on, like, social media and stuff, but, yeah, I blurt it out.
01:21:33.600
So, a lot of times when you're Amish, you're just driving around, hanging out, telling stories
01:21:41.660
Like, we, like, drink coffee and laugh, and, like, at work.
01:21:45.760
Like, at work, we're laughing a lot of the time.
01:21:47.860
We talk, and, and, because, like, when you're, like, I don't know if, like, if, like, non-Amish
01:21:54.360
people, I don't know what they do, like, when, when they, like, work.
01:21:57.480
They, do they, like, talk to each other and laugh and stuff?
01:21:59.980
Yeah, they do, I think, a decent amount at a lot of jobs.
01:22:02.520
Probably jobs that are more, like, if you're doing construction, things like that, contracting,
01:22:07.040
things where you're building stuff, working together, where there's team opportunity,
01:22:12.720
And if you're just sitting at a desk by yourself, you're probably just losing your mind.
01:22:16.180
Yeah, that would be, that would be kind of sad, like, being inside all day and, you know,
01:22:23.060
I think there's something that's kind of, like, it doesn't feel very human about it.
01:22:26.780
Are there a lot of people on antidepressants and stuff that are Amish or no?
01:22:32.220
There might be, like, like, maybe everyone, like, here, here, and maybe way over there,
01:22:45.120
But then you have, then you also have sometimes, like, people that are, like, what do you call
01:22:51.660
Like, sometimes they're, like, super depressed.
01:22:54.660
They're, they're almost like, they're almost like the water when it gets rough.
01:23:01.420
Like, we sometimes, like, I don't have a person that has that, and, like, it's kind of crazy.
01:23:08.420
Some studies have found Amish depression rates to be one-fifth to one-tenth of mainstream
01:23:12.500
society with strong family ties and community support cited as protective factors.
01:23:23.540
Strong family ties, robust social networks, work ethic, and especially religious faith
01:23:27.540
are seen as major mental health protective factors.
01:23:30.840
Will you guys pray together a lot just with friends?
01:23:33.260
Like, if you see them somewhere, is that a common practice?
01:23:36.700
No, like, like, we only do, like, at the table.
01:23:40.520
But, like, I know some families do, like, pray more than we do.
01:23:52.680
So, what happens in Valentine's Day is, uh, at school.
01:23:56.340
So, when that happens, it would basically, we put, like, things on a paper and we put
01:24:01.880
it into a hat and then we mix it all up and someone walks around with, like, and then
01:24:08.160
And if you got that name, then that's your valentine.
01:24:11.220
You got to, like, switch lunch pails and then you also have to, like, send a valentine
01:24:22.540
So, it's, like, nothing, uh, uh, it's, like, it's probably way different from, like, like,
01:24:31.900
Because I'm guessing, like, like, non-Amitian public schools, it would have to be, like,
01:24:42.680
And the way we do it is, like, just the main, the reason we do it is mainly your friends.
01:24:48.320
You give your friends a valentine and then, uh, then you also switch, like, lunch pails
01:24:53.020
and then the moms will usually put something special in there, like, NX or candy bar or.
01:24:58.900
And my mom used to buy, like, those things from Walmart, those, like, big red hearts and
01:25:11.460
Uh, no, we, we, uh, we don't have Halloween, but I've had, uh, before I went to Room Spring,
01:25:17.020
uh, the neighbors, uh, our non-Amish neighbors, they picked me up and then, then, uh, they put
01:25:23.160
me, like, in a prison, prison costume thing, like, I'll add black and white stripes all over
01:25:30.660
Like, you just walk up to these people's houses and they have candy for you.
01:25:36.960
But a lot of them, a lot of, a lot of Amish, like, don't, don't celebrate because, like,
01:25:42.040
apparently that's, like, uh, the occasion of, like, Halloween is, like, something to do
01:25:51.580
Um, because they have, some people, like, real scary stuff in the yard.
01:25:55.000
They got, like, snakes and then these, these dead people with, like, skulls and stuff.
01:26:08.460
They probably had insider trading with some dog or something.
01:26:11.280
What is something that you want people to know about Amish people that are, are a view
01:26:14.980
of them or you think that's something that's incorrect before we get out of here?
01:26:19.900
So, like, the, one of the biggest misconceptions I see all the time with, like, me being online
01:26:32.920
Uh, there's, there are actually two misconceptions I can say.
01:26:35.580
Like, number one is, like, a lot of Amish kids my age have, like, phones.
01:26:39.800
Like, they hide it from their parents and stuff.
01:26:42.140
And, where it's, like, they have, like, they have, like, they have some electronics and
01:26:47.580
stuff where they, but they have to, like, keep it on the low and stuff.
01:26:54.800
Yeah, like, hide it in the barn, like, the back of the bucky, sometimes in a culvert and
01:27:00.080
So, that's one thing, like, a lot of Amish have phones and every, pretty much every Amish
01:27:04.780
that has a phone that's, like, my age, that's not for business and stuff, is, like,
01:27:09.240
they have Snapchat, like, that's how we, like, communicate.
01:27:18.560
I was thinking about, you know, starting Underground Bucky Races, but I first got to dig the tunnel
01:27:23.100
But, like, another misconception, you know, about Amish is, like, what was it?
01:27:30.100
About me not being Amish, because I have a, I have a phone, that's, because, like, another
01:27:36.000
thing that's, like, huge, like, really big, because, like, there's Amish in movies and
01:27:41.320
they're always, they always turn on the butter.
01:27:43.960
And, basically, they're living without electricity.
01:27:46.960
Now, there's so many, there's so many different, like, Amish, because, like, what you hear from
01:27:51.580
me, like, from where I came from, is, will not be the same from an Amish in Indiana, Ohio,
01:28:00.360
It's, it's, there's so many different ones, like, little different ways.
01:28:05.860
And I, I would, I would say, like, there's not a single community that's, like, exactly
01:28:10.700
There's always a little bit of rules, and there's so many different branches of it, where they
01:28:14.580
wear a bit different clothes, a bit different hats, do things a bit differently, because
01:28:19.600
I've had people say, like, this is not Amish, and then, uh, they, like, write a detailed
01:28:23.940
description, but, I guess, they, they probably don't know better that there's, like, lots
01:28:28.740
of different ones, because there's, there's, like, lots, there's Beachy, Swartzen Trooper,
01:28:33.040
New Order, Old Order, there's, there's so many different branches.
01:28:36.000
Oh my gosh, it sounds like a bunch of people on the Warped Tour.
01:28:39.240
Yeah, it's like, so, so, when Anabaptist became a thing, they basically, like, they were, like,
01:28:52.180
I think you would like it, and I think it's a, I think it's something that is Amish appropriate.
01:28:59.400
So, have you ever seen Family Man with Nicolas Cage?
01:29:10.080
So, there's, these are, like, movies and stuff?
01:29:16.560
It's about this guy, and he's very, like, rich and fancy and stuff.
01:29:20.960
And then one day, he kind of, something happens where he goes back into his life, like, 20
01:29:28.900
And he makes a different decision to stay with a girl that he was in love with instead of
01:29:39.660
And he wakes up, and he's back in a different life he would have had if he had made a different
01:29:44.160
choice to stay in love instead of to go for, like, the big job in the fancy apartment.
01:29:52.720
He went for the money over people, and he had a choice.
01:29:55.180
And he goes back in time, and now suddenly he wakes up, and he's in a house with this
01:29:58.520
lady that he was in love with, but now they have, like, two kids, and they, like, they
01:30:02.140
don't live in, like, he was living in, like, this fancy downtown place with, like, a butler
01:30:07.080
and somebody that would, like, chew your gum for you and just tell you what it would
01:30:15.800
I'll chew my own gum, you know what I'm saying?
01:30:17.860
I'll, I'll chew my own gum, you know, drink my own water.
01:30:26.620
But anyway, um, so then he gets that experience, and then one day he wakes back up, and he's
01:30:34.560
And so he, he drives off from his original life to go find the girl and see what's going
01:30:39.460
on, and, um, and then you figure out what happens from there.
01:30:44.760
He almost sounds like that almost, when he went back in time and stuff, like, or, like,
01:30:48.900
twizzle, like, what ha, what would have happened if he would have, like, stayed with that girl.
01:30:52.200
That's almost like, uh, that's almost like me, like, deciding if I want to, you know,
01:31:02.620
What factors do you think will go into you choosing?
01:31:04.460
What do you think are good factors to help you decide, or do you think about that?
01:31:07.880
Uh, I think it's, uh, what, what I'll, what I'll, what I will all see from, like,
01:31:12.340
the outside world, and, like, I'll probably compare the two and see, you know, which one
01:31:16.840
I like, you know, I, I, I like the Amish lifestyle, the food, and all that stuff is
01:31:21.880
good, like, the only things right now that I don't like too much are the rules a little
01:31:26.920
Yeah, but that's what rumspring is for you, to break them.
01:31:31.040
Do you have any plans to go to any special events coming up on your own rumspringer, any
01:31:35.740
Uh, the only special event I've coming up is actually this weekend.
01:31:39.260
I'm gonna go, go on a plane for the first time.
01:31:46.480
Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna, like, cause, like, let's say something goes wrong when you're landing,
01:31:50.980
so I wanna, like, be off the plane, you know, when it's up in the air.
01:31:57.980
I, I'm, like, really excited, so this week is, I think this is a week I'll never forget.
01:32:05.260
So, yeah, no one, no one knows this, I haven't told anyone, and, so.
01:32:11.180
It's, it's crazy, you know, let's go skydiving.
01:32:14.900
But I think, don't they, like, put, like, they, like, strap a person on the back of you.
01:32:19.160
I just tell them you're not interested before you guys jump.
01:32:32.540
That's what, that's what the plan is, and, because I was thinking, I was talking to my
01:32:36.240
coworker, I was thinking, you know, that would be a really crazy story.
01:32:40.780
You know, the first airplane ride you ever go into, you just decided, you know, I don't
01:32:46.380
want to, I'm just going to chump out, you know.
01:32:49.680
So, it'll be the first plane you've ever been in, and then you're out of it.
01:32:54.420
And then, like, same way with a podcast, I decided, you know, the first podcast I
01:32:59.520
ever be on would be Theo Vons, because you're a pretty cool dude.
01:33:07.620
I think I learned a decent amount about it today.
01:33:10.340
You know, there probably could have been some other avenues about it that I could have
01:33:20.260
I think there's a lot of people in the world that are trying to get back to the roots
01:33:24.960
of their culture and things that matter and mean something.
01:33:27.300
So, I almost feel like you guys are already there in some ways.
01:33:31.840
And, like, some people, it feels like it's, like, not grounded anymore to family and stuff.
01:33:40.140
You know, like, they're just doing, like, really crazy stuff.
01:33:44.700
But, like, if you're, like, if you touch grass every day, you know, like, like, you're outside
01:34:04.140
This is a really crazy experience coming out here to town.
01:34:07.400
And then me sleeping 10 stories up, up 10 stories.
01:34:12.280
That's, like, the first time I've ever slept that high.
01:34:18.060
So, and it's, like, my first time ever, like, staying in a big city like this.
01:34:21.920
So, it's, it's, it's, like, I'll never forget it.
01:34:31.720
And, yeah, thanks for being here with us and helping us learn, brother.
01:34:39.900
And when I get close to it, I'm coming by for some coffee soup, all right?
01:34:44.940
Now, I'm just floating on the breeze, and I feel I'm falling like these leaves.
01:34:55.780
Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind I found.