This Past Weekend with Theo Von - #663 - Porn Recovery Coach Steven Wolt

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00:00:30.260 Today's guest is a certified coach and a founder of Valor Recovery.

00:00:36.140 It's a recovery program that focuses on porn addiction, pornography addiction, intimacy

00:00:42.680 disorders, commitment disorders, a whole gamut of stuff in there.

00:00:47.900 There's a lot of things when it comes to emotional connection.

00:00:52.980 He and I have known each other for years.

00:00:54.260 He's a dear friend of mine.

00:00:55.780 He's been a mentor.

00:00:56.700 He's been a guide.

00:00:57.360 and at times he's been a hero

00:01:00.420 I'll say that

00:01:01.960 this episode isn't really for children

00:01:04.260 if you have children maybe in the backseat or something

00:01:06.200 I mean it's not

00:01:08.160 graphic but it's just I don't know

00:01:10.620 just you know I hope this episode

00:01:12.620 reaches who it reaches

00:01:13.720 I would like to say that

00:01:15.400 I had a great chat today with my guest

00:01:18.260 and friend Mr. Steve

00:01:20.040 Walt

00:01:27.360 Thank you, brother. Thanks for coming. I love you.

00:01:37.680 Yeah, I love you too, bro. Been a long time in on you.

00:01:40.000 I know. It has been a long time, man.

00:01:43.020 For some of you guys who don't know, today's guest is my friend Steve Walt,

00:01:47.280 who started a program called Valor Recovery,

00:01:50.120 and it's a recovery program for men who have suffered with pornography addiction.

00:01:55.120 Is that pretty much a safe way to say it, Steve?

00:01:56.560 That's a good way to say it.

00:01:57.680 Okay, cool.

00:01:58.640 And thank you so much, dude.

00:01:59.700 I love the work that you do.

00:02:00.700 Thank you for like, you know, you've been a guy in my life and just a partner in crime

00:02:05.620 and, you know, in positive crime.

00:02:08.400 And yeah, I just want to like, we met in recovery rooms, right?

00:02:12.900 Yeah, a long time ago.

00:02:14.460 Yeah, we met above the bank over there.

00:02:16.080 We're going to recovery rooms in the Palisades.

00:02:17.860 Yeah.

00:02:18.620 I didn't suffer from porn addiction, but I did.

00:02:21.320 I have dealt with that, like parts of that.

00:02:23.940 and i have like uh you know had like intimacy disorder like commitment issues that sort of

00:02:30.640 thing you know um which those meetings cover all of that your recovery started with drugs and

00:02:35.980 alcohols it did i mean i was one of those kind of men that kind of struggled with a lot of stuff

00:02:42.260 but you know as you look back i definitely think pornography was the culprit really yeah i do you

00:02:49.400 You know, I think pornography was this kind of gateway drug that led me to a lot of dark places.

00:02:55.420 Yeah, I'd love to hear your experience, strength, and hope today.

00:02:58.260 Just take us kind of on your journey.

00:03:01.400 This is what people do in meetings a lot.

00:03:02.680 They'll share their experience, strength, and hope in your journey with, like, intimacy, sex addiction, pornography, addiction, et cetera.

00:03:10.820 Is that okay, Dave?

00:03:11.260 Yeah, it's great.

00:03:11.780 And so, you know, I think it started for me in the late 90s.

00:03:15.680 you know i was living in new york city working in financial services from all outward appearances

00:03:21.840 like doing great in life you know i remember moving kind of my first nice apartment and uh

00:03:27.580 32nd floor of a building i'd worked so hard for this right like my goodness i walk up no no

00:03:33.520 it wasn't a walk up 32 floors is the long way to walk oh yeah but what i do remember within a few

00:03:39.700 weeks is getting the internet in my apartment for the first time. Pretty cool, right? People

00:03:45.820 could do research. I could do a lot of things with the internet. Not this guy. I mean, I use

00:03:52.340 the internet for porn. And so really for the first time in my life, I had unlimited access

00:03:58.160 to pornography. And I'll tell you what, when I watch porn, it lit me up like a Christmas tree.

00:04:04.600 when I watch porn, that fog of depression

00:04:08.140 that kind of hovered over me, much of my life lifted.

00:04:11.880 Really?

00:04:12.380 Yeah, 100%.

00:04:13.280 I can kind of relate a little bit what you're talking about.

00:04:15.180 Like there's something else with it that feels very addictive.

00:04:17.680 You know, there's a euphoria to it.

00:04:19.460 That's what I'm saying.

00:04:20.300 I mean, it works just like a drug for me, right?

00:04:24.320 That anxiety I felt, that kind of loneliness

00:04:27.640 that was so profound vanished when I watch porn.

00:04:31.340 So, you know, I watched porn to really numb difficult emotions and it worked.

00:04:38.800 It worked really, really well.

00:04:41.060 And were you using it like, I mean, were you just kind of like using it once a day or was

00:04:44.420 like, I mean, was there an actual like heavy use of it or you were, it was just like this

00:04:47.840 outlet that was, that you knew that was there.

00:04:50.360 You know, it started off as an outlet, but then things started to change.

00:04:57.300 you know this was long before we had cell phones that had pornography so this was on a laptop in

00:05:02.540 my home and what i noticed was this progression i started watching porn for longer lengths of time

00:05:09.240 with more frequency i kind of needed porn you know there were nights i'd be watching porn

00:05:16.980 throughout most of the evening what 100 i'd go for hours wow and you know i'd wake up or like

00:05:23.720 come to in the morning like disgusted with myself oh yeah disgusted i'm never doing this again

00:05:29.860 i would actually have multiple times i would get the laptop and i would throw it down the garbage

00:05:35.320 chute on the 32nd floor in absolute disgust but you know a few days later i'd be back in the

00:05:41.700 computer store telling this poor guy that i have a growing business and we need more technology

00:05:46.440 literally i know i just throw my computer away because i couldn't stop watching porn on it

00:05:50.560 the guy's like dude too bad they don't have an olympic event for guys who are sick of watching

00:05:56.120 porn on their laptops you that would be so much further than discus i think you know but dude

00:06:01.560 that's crazy imagine like some guy is just like some little r2d2 human and there is like what

00:06:07.200 another one another one steve's got a very successful business he's hiring he needs a lot

00:06:12.720 he needs computers oh dude that's so crazy dude i do remember like when i was a kid is it if i

00:06:20.100 interject yeah please yeah um and just to share man like i remember like uh when i was a kid they

00:06:27.380 had one some fella had uh pornos at his house he had magazines and we'd had somebody had like

00:06:33.720 chiseled some tits into the wood into a tree near our home and stuff like that and we had that when

00:06:38.160 i was young and people would show up to that like it was some like kind of like a you know some

00:06:43.040 mahogany chest mecca or something you know people would make the pilgrimage to see that in the woods

00:06:47.800 to get out yeah yeah it's hot but at one point i had a i found i had a buddy and his dad had some

00:06:54.760 porno magazines and dude i remember once i'd seen those i would bike across town on the weekends

00:07:01.680 to go and uh to go to their home and i would kind of loiter around the house until there was an

00:07:07.800 opportunity to go see them and um one weekend i even broke into their like broke into a window

00:07:14.980 I didn't break the glass. That's crazy. But I did. That would have been too much. Yeah.

00:07:20.740 You would have crossed the line. Yeah. But I snuck in to, and I didn't realize it at the time.

00:07:25.020 It was just like, I didn't even realize that I was doing it. But when I later looked back at it,

00:07:28.660 it was like, oh, it just like, there was something, there was a comforting thing,

00:07:31.620 or there was like this addiction that started. Anyway, go on, man. So you had, you had taken

00:07:36.080 these computers in. Yeah. And you know, it was just a sign that I was really struggling with

00:07:41.880 i couldn't stop and you know there was such a progression to this you know even like taking

00:07:48.640 more risk on where i'd watch porn i'd watch it in the office on my work computer which is kind

00:07:54.160 of insane when you think about it yeah and you know i start watching different types of porn

00:07:59.740 you know categories i didn't even know existed right you go down the left hand side of that

00:08:05.140 porn they category after category after category and for me you know i started gravitating towards

00:08:11.320 like fetish porn. And then eventually porn outside of my sexual orientation. And I didn't

00:08:18.580 know what I was doing. I didn't know why this was so intoxicating and why I couldn't stop.

00:08:24.200 And the problem was, I wasn't wrong with that type of porn, but for me, it brought up so much

00:08:29.300 shame. And that shame was so debilitating in my life. And so it was really a painful experience.

00:08:36.800 You know, this was a long time ago

00:08:38.480 So there wasn't information around that

00:08:40.840 There wasn't a place to go and talk about this stuff

00:08:42.960 So, you know, I just had this kind of really horrible feeling

00:08:46.660 I was engaging in a behavior

00:08:48.080 That didn't feel like it was in alignment with my values

00:08:50.960 And I was suffering

00:08:52.080 Man, I'm sorry to hear that, man

00:08:56.140 I know that we've talked about this kind of a lot

00:08:59.380 And I've heard you share before

00:09:00.960 But anytime somebody says that they feel a lot of shame

00:09:04.360 Like, it just really resonates with me, man

00:09:06.740 You know, I've felt a lot of that in my life is just shame for different things.

00:09:09.740 You know, um, it's so powerful and you can't stop.

00:09:13.080 And you said, this sounds like a long time ago, man.

00:09:15.180 I've had friends that I've talked to this week that it's the same.

00:09:18.660 It's the same story.

00:09:20.380 Um, yeah, man, I can relate to like looking at pornography and the, just the shame, the

00:09:25.700 horror you feel after, but then you still need something at a, but then like it kind

00:09:30.460 of wears off or you get out of that shame and then you're again, or looking for something

00:09:35.000 that'll kind of give you a feeling,

00:09:36.380 something makes me feel good about myself

00:09:38.260 or I'm not dating well or I'm afraid of women,

00:09:42.260 anything, whatever's going on,

00:09:43.500 and then you find yourself back there.

00:09:45.140 Well, you know, it's interesting.

00:09:46.200 The ease and accessibility of porn, today anyway,

00:09:50.420 make it so easy to regulate your emotions with it, right?

00:09:54.700 You just think about how you're able

00:09:56.380 to really avoid discomfort.

00:09:59.440 Like, what do you mean exactly?

00:10:00.520 Like, avoid it.

00:10:01.360 Because here's the deal, right?

00:10:02.320 If you're feeling anxious, you watch porn,

00:10:04.640 you feel temporarily calm, right?

00:10:07.320 You're feeling bored, you watch porn,

00:10:09.600 you feel some stimulation.

00:10:11.000 You're feeling lonely, you watch porn,

00:10:13.540 you feel artificial connection.

00:10:15.680 So porn for me can actually affect and change my mood.

00:10:21.260 So why is that a bad thing, right?

00:10:23.620 And so, because porn can work in the short term, okay?

00:10:27.420 But what happens, especially for me,

00:10:29.180 is I weaken my ability to regulate my own emotions.

00:10:31.740 so stopping watching porn wasn't just stopping a bad habit i had to learn how to regulate my

00:10:40.060 own emotions i had to learn to deal with triggers and urges and so there was this kind of incredible

00:10:46.740 process that kind of weaning myself off porn was just not easy um thanks for sharing man um yeah

00:10:56.440 let's go back into your journey a little bit yeah and so you know we're in this place right now where

00:11:01.000 from, you know, using porn to deal with the pain of being Steve.

00:11:05.860 You were in this place.

00:11:07.020 Yeah.

00:11:07.400 So, and, you know, at that time I was in a relationship as well.

00:11:11.820 Great girl.

00:11:13.200 And, you know, throughout that relationship,

00:11:15.040 the more porn that I consumed, things started to change.

00:11:19.700 You know, sex wasn't about connection, making love.

00:11:25.200 It was about intercourse over time.

00:11:27.780 it was about replicating what i'd seen in the movies you know i often like to say pornography

00:11:34.640 abuse literally burns off the nerve endings of sensuality in relationships less kissing touching

00:11:40.100 holding caressing and that certainly was the case for me and you know over time in that relationship

00:11:46.480 you know i experienced a lot of sexual dysfunction i had difficulty getting and maintaining an

00:11:52.800 erection during sex yeah yeah over time i actually didn't even want to have sex with her i've been so

00:11:58.860 desensitized to sex with all the porn i was watching and masturbation i was engaging in

00:12:04.060 and towards the very end i couldn't orgasm unless i was thinking about a porn scene

00:12:08.460 i had seen earlier that day wow so pornography robbed me of my manhood and you know that pearl

00:12:15.260 poor girl i mean i mean talk about affecting her self-esteem and self-worth like what's wrong with

00:12:21.360 me why doesn't he desire me anymore am i not attractive anymore and i had no ability to talk

00:12:28.300 about this at this time i had so much shame over i had this incredible double life so you know porn

00:12:34.480 helped to destroy that relationship and so and i'm not talking about the guy who's casually

00:12:41.580 consuming porn i was abusing pornography and you know relying on it yeah yeah it was it was just

00:12:49.520 But what you notice is that men who abuse pornography,

00:12:55.160 it comes with some consequences.

00:12:57.660 And for me, pornography was this gateway drug, right?

00:13:02.200 All those lines in the sand I had of behaviors

00:13:05.620 that I would never cross over and engage in

00:13:08.120 all got washed away.

00:13:09.940 Really?

00:13:10.440 Yeah.

00:13:11.080 Pornography was a gateway drug that led to strip clubs,

00:13:14.000 erotic massages, escorts, really dark, dark places.

00:13:19.520 it was so painful you know that came a point in time in my life where i couldn't even make

00:13:24.060 eye contact with the man in the mirror really because i knew the truth when i think about

00:13:30.400 this journey i mean porn was like the culprit so it just didn't work for me did it get to a point

00:13:37.800 where it didn't work and then you kind of evolved onto other stuff or how did like you know in 2008

00:13:43.780 my life just kind of blew up i collapsed emotionally spiritually professionally

00:13:50.420 everything kind of came to a head and i absolutely blew up my life uh unfortunately

00:13:57.620 and um but that was the time i also had the courage to kind of ask for and get help

00:14:03.940 and not an easy thing to do to kind of talk about these issues get help for these issues and uh

00:14:10.180 it was hard coming out of the gates to get better from this stuff you know yeah how'd you know what

00:14:15.800 was the book was there like kind of a breaking point if it's okay to ask yeah please i mean

00:14:19.640 thank you bro for just being so open and like transparent about some of this man i think i was

00:14:23.620 scared about even like talking about this not because i'm scared of like i don't know i don't

00:14:28.560 know why i was i don't know i know you're such like a you know this is like your world you care

00:14:35.880 so much about helping people with this situation man um so i don't know why i was but um like did

00:14:41.260 there come a point for you where it was just like this is like i just this is it you know i you know

00:14:47.520 i think the um i knew i had to get help i knew i was in a lot of trouble i was getting the best

00:14:57.480 help that was available and i was still struggling and not because i had a desire to get better

00:15:03.720 the one thing i did really really well is i didn't give up i kept coming back the one thing

00:15:11.740 i really did well was i had so many good people in my life that saw something in me i couldn't

00:15:18.540 see in myself they refused to give up on me i had incredible family my mom my brothers my sister

00:15:26.920 who loved me unconditionally

00:15:29.800 and were like a pillar of strength when I was so weak.

00:15:35.160 So I was so lucky to have such good people in my life.

00:15:39.400 And I had to fight for my recovery.

00:15:42.680 It wasn't easy.

00:15:44.140 It was not easy.

00:15:45.340 I had to fight and fight and fight.

00:15:48.000 But I'll tell you what, I never gave up.

00:15:51.500 And I live a pretty incredible life today.

00:15:53.600 Yeah.

00:15:54.240 You know, I'm married to a woman.

00:15:55.920 and I absolutely adore my wife, Jennifer.

00:15:59.260 Best thing that's ever happened to me.

00:16:01.320 She's an incredible, incredible human being.

00:16:04.860 Amen.

00:16:05.700 And has made me such a healthier, better man.

00:16:09.800 I am so blessed for her.

00:16:11.240 And we had our son, Theo, almost a year ago.

00:16:14.000 We started a family and all byproducts of recovery.

00:16:19.000 And so I'm a huge believer in the power of recovery.

00:16:25.920 the benefits of men getting into recovery especially as it relates to sexual compulsivity

00:16:33.000 and porn abuse you know when you think about my recovery journey right i think about it kind of

00:16:39.400 in three stages healthy intimacy healthy sexuality and healthy masculinity healthy intimacy first

00:16:48.680 person i had to have an intimate relationship with is myself i had to get more comfortable

00:16:53.760 but with Steve, I had to stop running and numbing.

00:16:57.220 I had to learn to sit with discomfort.

00:17:00.120 I had to learn to really identify the root causes

00:17:03.120 that were driving these compulsions

00:17:05.080 because porn was not my problem.

00:17:07.760 Steve was my problem.

00:17:08.900 Wow.

00:17:09.860 Yeah, man, getting to know yourself.

00:17:12.420 Did you feel like yourself was like hidden kind of

00:17:17.820 or that yourself had never developed?

00:17:20.040 Does that make any sense?

00:17:21.000 Yeah, I think probably both.

00:17:22.540 all i know is i was so uncomfortable in my own skin you know i suffered with anxiety i suffered

00:17:29.360 with depression i didn't feel good about myself as a man you know i had such trouble being in

00:17:36.280 relationships experiencing love and i was so disconnected not only from myself but from

00:17:43.200 others and kind of made sense why i abuse pornography i was just really unhappy yeah

00:17:49.300 you know and that's you know the thing that i've learned over the years is that recovery

00:17:55.440 is not about stopping a behavior recovery is about building a life you don't need to escape from

00:18:04.200 were you able to notice some of the things that you felt like you were escaping from

00:18:10.280 that you felt like were kind of sending you in that direction

00:18:12.980 yeah right and i i was kind of emotionally unstable right and so part of recovery is

00:18:22.960 being able to regulate your own emotions right part of people think that like recovery looks

00:18:27.860 like this it doesn't it looks like a chart of the dow jones yeah right and so what i end up

00:18:33.860 doing recovery is just kind of softening the peaks and valleys so that i could exist in life

00:18:38.960 and, you know, not have to numb the pain

00:18:41.760 of the way I was living my life.

00:18:44.380 And so, you know, part of that involved

00:18:47.120 being able to have a relationship with my sexuality

00:18:49.680 that's beautiful and empowering

00:18:52.160 and made me feel good about myself as a man.

00:18:55.460 That's so missed in recovery circles.

00:18:57.600 Everything is about abstinence.

00:18:59.580 And I get that.

00:19:00.380 There's value in abstinence.

00:19:02.100 But if you truly want to transcend this compulsion,

00:19:05.240 you have to build the life that's more enjoyable,

00:19:07.900 more purposeful than the life you were living right or else you're going to be vulnerable

00:19:12.020 to returning to it so part of that means like dude steve you've got to learn how to be in a

00:19:17.600 relationship you got to learn how to experience the joys of your sexuality you have to learn how

00:19:23.840 to experience meaningful connection in order to truly transcend this compulsion yeah i mean it's

00:19:30.460 so funny you're saying this because i was thinking the other day it's like it's one thing to kind of

00:19:34.740 like refrain from things, right? Like I'm refraining from drugs and alcohol and I'm,

00:19:39.100 you know, like I'm, like I'm, uh, refraining from things that I'm addicted to, but it's another

00:19:44.140 thing like, but if you don't have a life outside of that, then you're just sitting there playing

00:19:48.960 defense all the time. I was just thinking about that the other day. It's somebody's like, what

00:19:52.420 do you like to do? And I'm like, you know, well, my, my hobbies became my jobs and I'm like, yeah,

00:19:57.000 I gotta find, I gotta find some things to fall in love with. Yeah. I gotta find like, and there's

00:20:00.800 so many things. How about a great woman? Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's- That would be awesome.

00:20:05.100 I would, hey. Just saying. I'm down. But yeah, I see exactly what you're saying.

00:20:10.520 I live a life today where I don't need pornography. I don't need alcohol. I don't

00:20:16.440 need drugs. This is like a journey around really healthy masculinity. For so much of my life,

00:20:24.640 my behaviors were not in alignment with my values yeah and i suffered right i needed porn

00:20:32.080 to deal with the way i was living my life so when i started to live my life in alignment with like

00:20:38.740 honor integrity love service kindness i felt good about myself as a man like i didn't need to numb

00:20:46.040 the pain of steve yeah i could look in the mirror and like that's a good guy most days yeah that's

00:20:52.960 good stuff yeah so that's often what's missed in recovery this is not just about abstinence

00:20:59.060 it's about becoming emotionally regulated kind of socially connected living with honesty and

00:21:06.340 integrity so that you don't need some maladaptive coping mechanism to deal with life okay man

00:21:12.060 yeah man i i think this has been like i mean i have so many friends that that talk about this

00:21:18.800 a lot and even women i was talking to this girl the other day and i said you know i have a guy

00:21:24.960 coming in who started a recovery center for a porn addiction and she's like oh you know i struggle

00:21:30.300 with that i was like what it shocked me yeah it's i had never heard a woman just say that to my face

00:21:35.740 and casually yeah you know um why do so many men struggle with this

00:21:43.240 so here's the truth that no one tells anybody this is really really difficult to overcome

00:21:50.900 it's almost comical you go online and you see these ads we'll fix your porn problem in 14 days

00:21:56.060 no you won't yeah not happening sorry you know there and there are a bunch of reasons why this

00:22:01.400 is so hard the ease and accessibility of this make this like a phenomenon we've never seen before

00:22:08.080 and it's not just porn it's sexualized social media and so so i'm in long-term recovery from

00:22:13.980 cocaine addiction and could you imagine an early recovery having to walk around all day long with

00:22:20.800 a pocket full of cocaine and not do it when you have some uncomfortable feeling come up

00:22:25.980 what do you think it's like for these guys that have their drug of choice in their hand on their

00:22:31.320 phone. Yeah. So the instant access makes this challenging. So that's one thing, but there's a

00:22:39.500 lot more going on. And so when you think, this is the way I think about it, right? And so I think

00:22:44.660 that pornography kind of hijacks the brain's reward system and so dysregulates your nervous

00:22:49.920 system. Porn becomes this learned shortcut to avoid discomfort. So when you stop watching porn,

00:22:56.860 you're not just stopping a bad habit.

00:22:58.660 You are literally kind of throwing away

00:23:01.840 your primary regulation tool.

00:23:03.840 And when you stop watching porn,

00:23:05.720 I don't know if you can relate to this.

00:23:07.000 I certainly can.

00:23:07.940 Your nervous system can go haywire, right?

00:23:10.680 You can feel irritable.

00:23:11.820 You can feel anxious, flat mood, low energy, and cravings.

00:23:16.440 And these cravings can feel primal.

00:23:18.860 They're literally a function of multiple systems

00:23:20.740 in your brain and body,

00:23:22.080 like screaming out all at once

00:23:24.000 that something's missing for your survival.

00:23:26.200 wow. That's why guys return to the behavior or quote unquote relapse. This is not about

00:23:32.300 willpower. This is not about moral failure. This is biology and neuroscience. Your brain has been

00:23:38.900 conditioned with all the porn that you've watched and your nervous system has yet to find another

00:23:44.020 way to regulate itself. So recovery is not just about stopping a behavior. It's retraining your

00:23:50.520 nervous system. It's learning how to deal with urges and cravings so they weaken over time.

00:23:57.100 Second challenge is that you've heard it in my story, right? Men use porn as a way to numb,

00:24:05.000 avoid, or suppress emotional pain, anger, pressure, anxiety, depression, trauma that

00:24:12.420 none of us want to feel. And so when you stop watching porn, these feelings come back with a

00:24:18.460 vengeance. So unless you begin to identify and heal those root causes, you are going to routinely

00:24:24.920 return to the one thing you know provides you temporary relief, and that's porn.

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00:26:06.340 This show is sponsored by Liquid IV

00:26:10.600 It's summer, baby.

00:26:11.540 It's warmed up.

00:26:13.280 You can feel it.

00:26:14.480 It's not even a joke.

00:26:16.880 The other day, I was just standing in the driveway and just thinking,

00:26:20.420 God, who cut the heat on?

00:26:24.820 Cut it off.

00:26:27.080 I was texting my neighbors, is y'all's heat on?

00:26:29.260 Just overwhelmed.

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00:27:24.080 Go to liquidiv.com and get 20% off your first purchase with code Theo at checkout. That's 20%

00:27:30.860 off your first purchase with code theo at liquidiv.com but some men it just shows up everywhere

00:27:38.940 that you kind of get addicted to it like that it's like a guy may not have a lot of problem a guy may

00:27:43.760 be healthy but uh he accidentally picks up some cocaine off the street and now he's using it

00:27:49.400 right as opposed to a guy who like is hurting and goes to look for cocaine or porn you know i'm just

00:27:56.180 i'm using cocaine as i don't know why i use that but like you know there's some guys who accidentally

00:28:00.420 it just shows up on their phone maybe it's a pop-up or whatever or they just they have some

00:28:04.460 sexual energy and they take it there and they're not really maybe they're healthy when they get

00:28:08.800 there and then there's guys who are unhealthy that go there um for a fix it feels like so it

00:28:16.320 feels like there's kind of two different versions 100 there's casual porn use okay so not everybody

00:28:21.220 is not at all like is trying to um has all these things that they that they need to repair that's

00:28:26.780 correct. Okay. Got it. There are guys out there that are continue to get engaged in the behavior

00:28:30.960 despite consequences. And right. And so I think the statistics say 10 to 15% of men have an

00:28:38.420 addiction or severe unhealthy relationship with pornography. So I'm talking about that category

00:28:43.820 of men. Yeah. Because for me, I know I never had like the addiction to pornography. Like

00:28:48.840 I had the use of it. Give it time. Don't sell yourself short.

00:28:53.560 please no um but i definitely had uh where it it was an it was a way instead of having to connect

00:29:05.500 with the woman yeah i would this is an easier way and that became like just an easier safer way

00:29:10.920 i didn't have an so i guess there isn't an addictive element there but i didn't have like

00:29:14.880 the the daily like you know like the that draw to it i had um more like like intimacy issues with

00:29:24.000 talking with women and stuff like that and um and then i would just end up using doing masturbation

00:29:29.100 a lot of times not even to pornography but uh but then once porn came more prevalent and stuff like

00:29:34.600 that it was easier well i think you highlighted a really good point there's another component to

00:29:39.440 this porn abuse porn addiction sexual compulsivity whatever label you're throwing at it is

00:29:44.780 often referred to as an intimacy disorder meaning for many men this is about more than just a sexual

00:29:50.740 behavior this is about a pattern of avoiding emotional connection you just highlighted that

00:29:56.440 was my thing that's right emotional connection was tough for me i didn't have any experience of it

00:30:01.140 and so when i finally got into like like dating or like where you're having attraction with girls

00:30:08.080 and they're having an attraction for you and women um it was a lot it was like i it was scary

00:30:14.380 i guess or it was alarming it was a lot of things and i didn't have like a safe outlet to talk about

00:30:20.460 it um and i didn't have any groundwork of like healthy connection at all so that uh so i think

00:30:30.420 yeah that just made it like kind of tough and then to avoid it i would be like okay well i have these

00:30:35.580 sexual feelings i'll just go and uh use jerking off or whatever something like that as opposed to

00:30:43.380 uh trying to figure out how to work them out because working them out in real time when you're

00:30:48.280 a kid like when you're young you know when you're at adolescent or whatever it's kind of scary you

00:30:52.800 know it's like a lot of that's scary you know yeah where do you go to talk about this stuff

00:30:56.380 right and your peers like some of them are kind of helpful but some of them are also like

00:30:59.860 like other kids can be assholes about the stuff so um anyway i'm trying to some of it i can't i

00:31:06.000 can't remember exactly some of the ways but yeah instead of like engaging sometimes i'll be like

00:31:10.220 oh i'm too nervous to even talk to that girl i'll just masturbate later on or you know it's

00:31:15.640 it's interesting does that make sense at all perfect sense i mean men men begin to prefer

00:31:21.640 the safety of porn versus the unpredictability of relationships and real people yeah so once

00:31:30.700 again recovery is not just about stopping a behavior recovery is learning how to relate

00:31:36.620 engage and connect with others recovery is about learning how to experience real intimacy which

00:31:42.680 sorry has to include some vulnerability and taking some emotional risk recovery is about learning to

00:31:49.760 experience the joys of connection and love. If you're not on that path, it's hard not to be in

00:31:58.520 pain and suffering. And so it's so important in recovery. So when you think about why this is so

00:32:04.780 hard, you just talked about it. If you don't understand the neuroscience and the nervous

00:32:11.040 system regulation, guys just stay in this hamster wheel loop. If you don't identify some of the root

00:32:17.640 causes that are driving this compulsion, you're vulnerable to returning to it. And if you don't

00:32:22.260 do a deeper dive around intimacy and what's blocking you from connection, you stay in pain

00:32:27.520 and lonely. So kind of all three of these need to be addressed in order for lasting recovery to

00:32:33.120 occur. Yeah. But it's more than that. And I'll tell you a few other thoughts I have on why this

00:32:38.200 is so hard. Early recovery can be very painful. And so when you so overstimulate your brain from

00:32:47.080 pornography and from sexualized social media, when you stop engaging those behaviors, your mood

00:32:54.240 can be flat. You can have low energy and you can have intolerable boredom. And people think that

00:33:03.620 boredom is the enemy. It's not. It's actually your body recalibrating. Everything you want in life

00:33:11.100 is on the other side of you learning

00:33:13.280 how to tolerate boredom.

00:33:15.360 But for so many men, they quit too early

00:33:18.760 because they can't sit with this discomfort.

00:33:22.620 The other challenge we see constantly

00:33:25.100 is that so many guys quit before the miracle happens.

00:33:28.820 I mean, I struggled for many years

00:33:30.220 before I was able to make real progress in my recovery.

00:33:33.740 You know, oftentimes in recovery circles,

00:33:36.320 we measure sobriety success

00:33:39.200 by continuous days of sobriety,

00:33:42.740 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, six months, a year,

00:33:45.480 all good stuff, right?

00:33:47.300 All good stuff, right?

00:33:48.660 However, however,

00:33:50.620 that cannot be the sole measurement of progress

00:33:54.340 because for many guys, myself included,

00:33:58.140 they're not gonna get it right away, right?

00:34:01.120 It's going to be a journey.

00:34:03.480 And if you keep kind of having to relapse

00:34:05.660 and you go down this massive shame spiral

00:34:08.680 that you're failing, that you're a failure, you give up. So recovery is about becoming

00:34:16.460 emotionally regulated, socially connected, learning to live with honor and integrity

00:34:21.740 so that you don't need porn anymore. That can take time. Recovery is about building a life

00:34:27.320 you don't need to escape from. That can take time. And so for many guys, especially single guys,

00:34:33.440 where there's not external leverage or consequences on you.

00:34:37.680 A married guy, he's really in trouble with his relationship.

00:34:40.480 He's got to get sober or the marriage is at risk.

00:34:43.300 That's one dynamic.

00:34:44.700 But now you've got a single guy right now.

00:34:46.380 What is the motivation for him right now to continue on this work?

00:34:50.100 You've got to keep that person inspired and motivated

00:34:52.760 to continue to do the work.

00:34:54.680 And guess what?

00:34:55.420 If the best that you can do is watch 80% to 90% less porn

00:34:58.880 in any given month, great job.

00:35:01.700 Great job.

00:35:02.500 As long as that is in conjunction with you developing new habits to take better care of yourself physically, spiritually, and emotionally, recovery is a, the ability to sustain abstinence will be a byproduct of you taking better care of yourself physically, emotionally, and spiritually.

00:35:22.380 Yeah.

00:35:22.680 It's a three-sided deal.

00:35:24.040 100%.

00:35:24.600 So guys quit too early.

00:35:26.520 Like, where are you going?

00:35:27.700 We just got started.

00:35:28.580 and so why not also measure consistency of going to the gym consistency of making social plans

00:35:36.920 consistency of learning a new hobby keeping your word dude taking care of yourself measure that

00:35:43.640 stuff in addition to your sober day count yeah there's a lot of other factors that start to

00:35:48.060 gauge like that that you can use to self-gauge as well and that are super important but also a lot

00:35:52.900 of those factors are things that it's also just like, you know, uh, it's getting up, it's getting

00:35:59.820 up being active. I want to take care of myself physically. You know, I want to meditate. I want

00:36:06.480 to have a relationship with a higher power. I want to like nurture this gift, this thing that I am

00:36:14.380 right. And there's this other, it's such a Pandora's box porn is because it's like,

00:36:19.240 here's this thing and it's just it's tricked it's tricked it's it's it's it's like a it's a

00:36:26.860 just a finely calculated molecule of the devil really you know and it's it's and so when sometimes

00:36:34.120 people are like man we're not at war there's not a lot going on but we're sitting here losing a

00:36:39.460 battle a lot of times so I do think there's a there's it there is this inspirational element

00:36:44.040 sometimes, um, where I'll feel like I can, I like, if I want a war, there's one every single day

00:36:53.640 for me against the dark arts, against the things that want to drag me down, you know, against the

00:37:00.080 things that are literally are, uh, are finessed to take away the essence of me, right? The essence

00:37:08.220 of me, man. And so it's like, there's a battle right now, I think for a lot of that. And a

00:37:13.960 lot of us don't realize, um, well, and, and we can get kind of like, uh, lullaby into the comfort

00:37:21.400 of it. You don't think it's a big deal. You're looking at it once or twice. Right. But then you,

00:37:25.400 you like, I would notice for myself, if I was doing jerking off or whatever, something like

00:37:29.860 that, the next day I'd feel a little bit kind of bad about myself or I'd be shorter with people.

00:37:35.720 Um, if I looked at pornography, it made me look at, uh, like, uh, dates and stuff. It just made

00:37:42.740 me like it carried a little bit of shame inside of me you don't even realize that sometimes it's

00:37:46.800 like you don't think it's on the forefront of you or that it's it's affecting like the look in your

00:37:51.120 eyes or anything but there's a little bit of that in there you know it kind of like colors your

00:37:55.060 coffee a little bit it's like um but it's not the best color you know does any of this stuff

00:37:59.480 make sense that i'm saying you you so i'm kind of rambling no no no there's i want to i want it's

00:38:03.640 hard to explain yeah you did a good job with it a few things that come to mind number one you

00:38:08.500 talked about the rig system and so i read this i shared this with you on a phone a few weeks ago

00:38:13.200 i read this stat that said that the dopamine spike is from the anticipation of watching

00:38:24.420 the next video and not the video you're actually watching wow so the addiction is to the scroll

00:38:34.080 and like dopamine this is i may butcher this but i think that's what it said dopamine is not the

00:38:40.160 pleasure chemical it's the motivation chemical it's the chemical of pursuit what's next so

00:38:47.720 social media is rigged this way pornography is rigged this way you know back in the day

00:38:53.500 you know getting access to porn was going to some creepy video store yeah going behind a curtain

00:39:00.360 It's an adult only or beads, those beads that would hang.

00:39:03.560 You obviously know.

00:39:04.800 And all of a sudden to get this VHS in a brown paper bag,

00:39:08.060 put it underneath your arm and do the walk of shame home.

00:39:11.200 Yeah.

00:39:11.720 Right.

00:39:12.080 But you go watch that VHS, you know, for 15 minutes,

00:39:16.400 do whatever and go about your day.

00:39:18.060 That's not what modern day porn abuse looks like.

00:39:22.420 It's infinite novelty where you're constantly scrolling

00:39:28.260 for sexual imagery hours at a time this is a whole new beast yeah it says it right here

00:39:37.920 industry analytics and search engine s studies estimate that pornographic content accounts for

00:39:43.500 roughly 20 of all internet searches on mobile devices that's astronomical this is notably

00:39:50.240 higher than desktop search rates which generally clock in around 13 the primary driver of this

00:39:55.820 higher mobile percentage is the privacy portability and convenience that smartphones provide because

00:40:02.760 of this studies from major adult entertainment networks indicate the vast majority of adult

00:40:06.740 content is it is accessed via a cell phone um yeah i read the other day that porn hub uh which is

00:40:15.920 banned uh here in tennessee i do want to say that is that right you have to have an id that's correct

00:40:21.800 And that's how – dude, that thing that they have, I think it's the Tennessee Minors Act.

00:40:28.220 Is that what it is?

00:40:31.260 The Protect Tennessee Minors Act is a state law mandating that commercial websites and digital platforms containing a substantial portion of content harmful to minors implement reasonable age verification methods.

00:40:43.380 So you have to enter your ID.

00:40:45.540 That's good stuff.

00:40:46.060 That's a huge thing because it makes you take some accountability.

00:40:47.920 Okay, well, is this something that I'm willing to say I do?

00:40:51.800 Right. Is this something I'm willing to put my name, my height, my data? Am I really,

00:40:56.980 you know what I'm saying? Am I willing to go that far with it? Um, I love that. I love that.

00:41:01.680 Like there's been times where I've wanted to go look at stuff and that stopped me right there.

00:41:05.180 Great. Yeah. So I do find that that is helpful because it like, um, yeah, I don't want to put

00:41:10.860 myself in there really. Like I want to look at it as like this guy in the distance. Right.

00:41:16.020 Have they seen fake ID spiking right now? Cause people want, that's a great question.

00:41:19.600 good business, perhaps. Yeah. Yeah. Around seven to 11% of men self-report experiencing

00:41:25.180 problematic pornography use, um, or feeling addicted. I mean, that's unbelievable, man.

00:41:31.380 And it's just not porn, right? You look at the content that's on X, you look at the content

00:41:37.460 that's on Instagram, Facebook reels, right? That sexualized content can have the same effect on

00:41:44.120 the brain as watching pornography. And so it's an issue. And so we live in a really tricky time

00:41:52.280 right now because it's everywhere. It's unbelievable that it exists. And it's

00:41:57.740 unbelievable that we allow it as well, you know, that we allow it. Well, there's also a societal

00:42:05.080 thing with guys. Like it's, that's what guys do, right? It's cool watching porn. And I'll tell you

00:42:12.820 the truth that ain't so cool guys don't do it together guys watch a game together i've never

00:42:19.560 had a guy be like hey man i'm having a couple of the guys over to watch some porn yeah the thing

00:42:24.440 that's really interesting to me is here's the truth so many men who abuse pornography right

00:42:30.840 it affects their sexual performance it affects how they show up in relationships and it builds shame

00:42:36.840 right so so many men struggle with sexual performance that's that's not a new thing

00:42:41.040 but what is new and i think quite concerning is how many of those men are under the age of 40

00:42:46.180 they turn to cialis viagra testosterone replacement therapy thinking that something's wrong with them

00:42:52.800 physically when the truth is and the reality is is their sexual dysfunction is probably caused by

00:42:58.880 all the porn they're consuming so heavy porn use can rewire the brain and even my own story is that

00:43:05.460 True, heavy porn use.

00:43:06.260 Heavy porn use can rewire the brain

00:43:08.640 and cause all types of problems in the bedroom.

00:43:13.080 Like even in my own story, right?

00:43:14.860 I had difficulty getting and maintaining an erection

00:43:17.500 during sex, especially with a partner.

00:43:20.420 I had difficulty orgasming

00:43:22.400 towards the end of my run with pornography.

00:43:24.820 I had difficulty maintaining an erection

00:43:27.160 and I needed porn stimulation to stay aroused.

00:43:30.700 And heavy porn use can absolutely lead

00:43:33.440 to premature ejaculation.

00:43:35.460 You know, one of the things I didn't share in my story,

00:43:37.460 which is important to talk about, right?

00:43:39.460 Because there's probably a bunch of your listeners

00:43:41.160 right now listening, waiting for someone

00:43:42.960 to tell the damn truth.

00:43:44.460 You know, when I first started consuming porn,

00:43:46.660 early in my life, before that relationship,

00:43:49.160 I struggled with premature ejaculation.

00:43:51.760 And I had so much shame and embarrassment around it.

00:43:56.960 I got to a point where I'd rather not be with a woman

00:44:00.460 than be with a woman and have that type of sexual performance.

00:44:03.960 You feel like you were just so nervous about sex?

00:44:06.240 I mean, it makes sense.

00:44:06.860 Sex is a nervous thing for a youngster.

00:44:09.980 I didn't realize a few things.

00:44:11.420 For the children.

00:44:12.120 Sex is nervous for the children, you know?

00:44:13.760 It's a nervous thing.

00:44:14.540 Even for adults.

00:44:15.480 Yeah.

00:44:15.900 And so what I didn't realize at that time

00:44:17.900 was that all the porn that I was consuming

00:44:20.640 and the way that I was actually masturbating to it

00:44:23.540 kind of conditioned my brain to orgasm quickly,

00:44:26.800 and that carried over to real-life scenarios.

00:44:29.940 I didn't realize at that time

00:44:31.500 that the intense porn that I was watching

00:44:33.840 so overstimulated my brain,

00:44:36.360 leading to early orgasm.

00:44:38.720 So my porn use was tied to shame and secrecy,

00:44:42.200 which fueled kind of anxiety around sex,

00:44:45.640 making it kind of uncomfortable.

00:44:48.100 And porn was the cause of this.

00:44:50.920 Yeah.

00:44:51.960 So that's one area.

00:44:53.280 Men, not so manly when you think about,

00:44:54.840 hey, is it really that cool?

00:44:56.660 Right.

00:44:57.200 Second challenge that guys tend to have,

00:44:59.040 it can totally affect how guys show up in relationships.

00:45:02.160 Oh, yeah, dude.

00:45:03.080 watching like like touching your body or whatever jerking off or whatever it was like um

00:45:09.480 it was like it just made it easier than having to go and try with women and having to go and

00:45:19.280 have a relationship it made it all just easier and if you came from like and for me i just

00:45:24.720 there was so much it was so uncomfortable that i was like i don't really i mean i guess i had a

00:45:30.500 choice but it just was too much of a of a easy alternative it was like i don't i don't know how

00:45:38.000 like you know i'm so embarrassed i'm so like just have so low self-worth so many little things

00:45:44.380 they're like man i can't i can't go ask this girl out or do you know so it became this little thing

00:45:50.480 and then the this was the part that i was gonna get that you made me think about sorry

00:45:53.700 every everything about sex felt like a secret right like i would like it was always like when

00:46:01.300 i was growing up we would go in the woods and see the tits or whatever chiseled in the wood or

00:46:05.360 whatever or you would sneak into is that still around you think i'm sure it's been no i think

00:46:11.700 they had weevils or whatever got it i think it was that i can't remember exactly i have to look

00:46:17.240 it up okay but or it could have been one of those new ticks that uh bill gates unleashed or whatever

00:46:21.660 but whatever i'm sure it's gone these days or it's really yeah it's eroded to an a cup you know

00:46:28.000 for sure and what's the point to visit it then right come on at the time those things were oh

00:46:33.380 i'm making a road trip for an a cup dude they had a woodpecker would land on one of them

00:46:36.820 that's big pretty nice so uh but dude the the biggest thing i think about like it was just

00:46:44.900 like seek everything was set sex when i was young became like secretive it became like secretive

00:46:50.160 Because, yeah, if you were looking at pornography, she was doing masturbation.

00:46:53.700 She was sneaking off and doing it.

00:46:55.300 So everything became secretive.

00:46:56.540 So then, like, everything, like, even when, like, dating, I never want anybody to know I was very secretive about stuff.

00:47:02.240 So it always had all this, like, a little bit of extra, like, kind of taboo around it, I think.

00:47:06.820 I don't even know what that means.

00:47:08.080 But it was just like, you know, when things are in secret, it's, you know, things in secret can be kind of uncomfortable.

00:47:16.880 Things you're always trying to hide can be kind of uncomfortable.

00:47:19.360 That's right.

00:47:19.740 And I, you know, I think also that secrecy can lead to shame.

00:47:23.540 Yeah.

00:47:24.580 Oh yeah.

00:47:25.080 Well, you're always, if something's in secret, you're always worried.

00:47:27.420 Somebody's going to find out about it.

00:47:28.560 That's right.

00:47:29.620 And I didn't have any positive, like a relationship with sex or no, like I didn't have any, not

00:47:35.880 like I didn't, nobody taught me, it told me nothing about it.

00:47:38.620 It was just like your body, you change and then you're like dealing with it.

00:47:42.840 And I'm still waiting to get the birds and beads conversation from dad.

00:47:47.740 You know what I'm saying?

00:47:49.060 Yeah.

00:47:49.420 Yeah, they should just have a decent man

00:47:53.020 that travels around the country

00:47:54.120 helping just have the birds and the bees conversation.

00:47:57.560 Like a temporary rented dad

00:47:59.020 to have the conversation with you when you're like 12.

00:48:01.320 Yeah, just like some wiener Santa or whatever.

00:48:03.600 He travels around, he pulls up,

00:48:06.200 you know what I'm saying?

00:48:06.600 Do it outside where it's in view of,

00:48:08.960 you know, where the Lord can see it.

00:48:11.440 But anyway, you were going into a second part

00:48:15.460 about how it affects relationships.

00:48:18.060 and dude i'll even remember like if you've been if i if i say if you but if i'd been like

00:48:23.140 you know doing touching myself or whatever yurking off or whatever like that then i would uh

00:48:28.840 it you're right when you said it's like it changed the amount of intimacy now it's like if my girl

00:48:34.000 and i are going somewhere maybe i i i don't i would i wouldn't touch her touch her elbow or

00:48:38.620 like you know what i'm saying or like give her a pinch or like you know i'm saying i wouldn't

00:48:42.300 create that energy so a lot of that energy disappears and that's the thing i think that

00:48:46.900 uh we don't realize a lot it's that little like that yin and yang that whole thing that keeps like

00:48:53.360 nature and society and and really the future because of procreation which keeps it all in

00:49:00.040 balance is this kind of tension right a romantic kind of like samba between like like her aura and

00:49:07.140 mine and pornography like uh weakens that and then you're right people take into their head like a

00:49:13.560 woman will take in her head like, oh, something's wrong with me or he thinks I'm not this way or

00:49:18.360 I can't do these things, which isn't that, you know what I'm saying? So it's just, it's a tough

00:49:22.480 cycle. And I think a lot of it does fall on us men because we got to be stronger. I'm not saying

00:49:28.660 that I'm great at it or anything, but I do think that somebody's got to come to the rescue of us

00:49:36.200 and I think it has to be us. Well, no one's coming to rescue us, right? You got to take

00:49:40.440 accountability in your own life but i think you you really eloquently kind of laid out the

00:49:47.560 dynamics that porn abuse can have in relationship yeah really you really did that was really well

00:49:52.320 said and uh you know well i just i feel bad about some of the i feel like dang i wasted a couple

00:49:59.840 relationships i wasted some and i wasted somebody's time and i wasted like and i didn't even know it

00:50:06.600 But yeah, some of that.

00:50:07.520 Now and now.

00:50:08.040 The only way, you learn and grow.

00:50:09.680 Yeah.

00:50:10.180 And you often see when men abuse porn over time,

00:50:15.560 they can lose attraction for their partners

00:50:18.340 because they can't compete with porn.

00:50:20.180 I mean, how unfair is that?

00:50:21.940 Yes.

00:50:22.220 There could be less desire for romance.

00:50:24.340 I'll say it again.

00:50:25.600 Pornography abuse burns off the nerve endings

00:50:28.260 of sensuality in relationships.

00:50:30.540 Less touching, holding, kissing, caressing.

00:50:33.840 So if I'm watching porn, you know,

00:50:35.780 maybe I don't notice the waves in my wife's hair.

00:50:38.440 If I'm watching porn, we hold hands less perhaps.

00:50:42.600 So pornography abuse can deaden the vibrancy

00:50:45.280 of our partners, our wives, and our marriages.

00:50:47.840 I mean, that kind of sucks.

00:50:49.660 Yeah, well, it dims the way you feel.

00:50:51.060 For me, it dims the way I feel if I'm waking up.

00:50:53.340 That's right.

00:50:53.760 Like, oh, I still, my first thought sometimes is

00:50:56.560 if I'd looked at pornography the day before,

00:50:58.480 it's like, oh man, I wish I hadn't done that.

00:51:01.280 I think I can not do it.

00:51:02.740 you know it's like but you're always in this war you know it puts you always in like this battlefield

00:51:07.120 it's like being hooked up to an ivy drip of shame and for not every guy right we're not talking

00:51:13.260 about the casual use we're talking about the compulsive use and and the other thing is you

00:51:17.700 tend to see over time the guys that end up abusing pornography porn and masturbation just become the

00:51:26.120 preferred sexual outlet and shame and secrecy and guilt become the norm and because of that shame

00:51:32.780 so many guys, especially our young guys, are not dating.

00:51:36.800 They've given up on dating.

00:51:38.980 They're not actually having physical sex.

00:51:40.820 I read a stat not too long ago

00:51:42.340 that one out of three men under the age of 30

00:51:45.640 have not had sex in the last year.

00:51:48.400 One out of three men?

00:51:49.840 One out of three men under the age of 30

00:51:52.160 have not had sex in the last year.

00:51:53.820 But some of those men could be 10 years old or whatever.

00:51:56.760 I would imagine, I didn't look at the fine print of the thing.

00:52:00.420 I would imagine it would probably tell them at age 18 to 30.

00:52:03.720 Oh, they should say that then.

00:52:04.900 They should probably, yeah, good point.

00:52:06.800 Because if it's like this five-year residence, you're like, yeah, I hope not.

00:52:10.580 Yeah, we'll fact check this right now.

00:52:12.960 Anyway, recent data from the General Social Survey indicates that nearly one quarter of young adults

00:52:20.620 aged 18 to 29 reported having no sex in the past year, looking specifically at younger single men under 30.

00:52:27.080 The rate of sexlessness can climb closer to one third.

00:52:29.440 and then bro you know what happens i think when when you start to when you start to like

00:52:33.980 when you dim the men in a culture anything can come in there sure it's like when you dim the

00:52:40.220 warriors who are standing at the gate anything is slipping there you know and then they come in and

00:52:44.560 now they got the women on only fans because because they're not in a relationship and there's

00:52:48.840 not like a provider and there's not like a leader and you're not part of like a we're doing this

00:52:52.760 together right and then like everything's for sale it's like what's for sale now you know

00:52:57.900 and i don't mean that i'm not it's not none of that's negativity at anybody it's just like uh

00:53:04.000 you know it's just like um i don't know and do i sound judgmental i'm just kind of i think it all

00:53:11.800 makes me just like i don't know i feel like we're stronger than this but we we are in a war well i

00:53:18.800 think what you're highlighting and what i'm hearing you say is so many of our young men in particular

00:53:24.280 they lack confidence in themselves they're full of shame right they don't have the uh they can't

00:53:31.440 handle rejection right the world needs healthy strong men and pornography abuse is emasculating

00:53:38.960 our men today that's what i'm saying that was definitely the case for me 100 but here's the

00:53:45.660 deal and i need your listeners to hear this right now yeah amen because i don't want to get stuck in

00:53:50.540 the dour parts of it and that things are not healable because that's not the truth that's

00:53:54.800 not the truth the truth is it is time to reclaim your damn manhood type shit you know seriously

00:54:01.440 no i feel you enough is enough right enough is enough right now there's a cesspool out there

00:54:07.520 that are killing our men today so let me tell you in my own journey when i got the right type of help

00:54:13.820 i was able to work through these sexual dysfunction when i got the right type of help

00:54:19.220 I was able to be in a healthy relationship

00:54:22.920 where I felt good about myself as a partner, as a man.

00:54:25.900 So it's not just like Steve stops watching porn

00:54:28.640 and everything fixes Excel.

00:54:29.860 Right.

00:54:30.060 Don't work that way.

00:54:30.900 Right.

00:54:31.200 It's a process of retraining your brain,

00:54:33.400 your body, and your relationship to intimacy.

00:54:35.940 Amen.

00:54:36.600 What were some of the first, like the initial moments?

00:54:38.780 Was there kind of like a day or a time in a rehab?

00:54:41.220 Because you went to some different,

00:54:42.480 is it okay to say that you went to some different rehabs?

00:54:44.220 Yeah, I went to all of them.

00:54:44.960 You did?

00:54:46.620 My boy.

00:54:47.900 My boy.

00:54:49.220 Dude, Steve was a animal out there in the park.

00:54:53.140 His old partying stories are great, bro.

00:54:54.900 That's right.

00:54:55.420 You have some great ones, man.

00:54:56.320 And I'm not talking just sex.

00:54:57.520 I'm not talking sexual stuff.

00:54:58.400 I'm talking just your AA partying stories.

00:55:01.020 And sometimes we tell those war stories because it keeps you out of the battle.

00:55:04.940 100%.

00:55:05.340 And you got to laugh at them now.

00:55:06.860 Oh, dude.

00:55:07.440 If I go to an AA meeting and I laugh with my friends about times where we all used to do stupid stuff or something ridiculous.

00:55:13.500 That's right.

00:55:14.120 The feeling I get laughing with friends, I leave out of there.

00:55:17.160 I don't want to drink.

00:55:18.060 I don't want to use.

00:55:18.800 I don't want to do anything harmful to myself because I've just felt connection and that

00:55:23.480 gives me something that, that I'm supposed to have.

00:55:26.440 So like, you ever see like on a, maybe Theo Vaughn or the Red Hot Chili Peppers go on

00:55:30.280 tour, they have t-shirts that list all the cities they visited.

00:55:33.480 Yeah.

00:55:33.840 I did that with rehabs.

00:55:37.280 So, I mean, come on, dude.

00:55:40.260 And so.

00:55:41.020 What was your tour called?

00:55:42.200 Do you have a tour name?

00:55:42.660 I don't have a name for it.

00:55:43.420 Maybe you could help me out with that.

00:55:44.620 and so you know it's just the journey's the journey man yeah and so once again it's it's you

00:55:52.360 know it's about perseverance and not giving up but i'll tell you some things that are interesting

00:55:57.720 that that when i was able to get the right type of help as it relates to my porn addiction i was

00:56:04.260 able to stabilize my arousal stabilize your arousal okay when i tell me what that means

00:56:10.680 time you say that you know i was uh pornography abuse so distorted my view of women pornography

00:56:18.820 abuse had me in a constant place of euphoric recall and fantasy right and so i had to learn

00:56:27.320 how to not rely on that kind of dopamine fueled kind of energy to deal with life i had to learn

00:56:36.100 how to build sensation for sexual experiences, to be present in sexual experiences. So when I got

00:56:44.320 into recovery, dude, my sex life was so enjoyable, right? I learned how to kind of make love and

00:56:51.900 connection and kissing and sensuality, all kinds of beautiful stuff. When you get into recovery,

00:56:57.980 oftentimes here, you have better erections and more satisfying sex.

00:57:02.960 that's what I want

00:57:04.160 I want that super erection

00:57:05.520 that's it

00:57:06.200 and you hear all the time

00:57:07.380 guys get into recovery

00:57:08.700 and sustain recovery

00:57:09.880 it's so much more enjoyable

00:57:12.020 they're present for it

00:57:13.720 they're not full of shame

00:57:15.100 there's a confidence

00:57:16.360 that comes from it

00:57:17.560 yeah that's what I'll

00:57:18.420 yeah I want that wiener

00:57:19.300 that's like plays the game

00:57:20.380 like I feel like

00:57:21.240 my wiener's like a designated hitter

00:57:23.180 like it'll get up to the plate

00:57:24.240 it's kind of like

00:57:24.860 but it knows it's not going to be out in the feet

00:57:26.560 it's just like showing up

00:57:27.480 for the freaking

00:57:28.100 Otani's a DH sometimes

00:57:29.980 Otani is?

00:57:30.720 yes

00:57:30.980 so

00:57:31.880 well what are you trying to say i got a small wiener i wanted to say that i'm not sure what

00:57:36.660 i was saying with that although he gets a lot of home runs so here we go that's what we're talking

00:57:41.980 about yeah uh we might take that part out which is fine um so so you're saying like you know and

00:57:46.680 you noticed that like do you remember do you remember like a first experience where you kind

00:57:50.680 of noticed something small that you were like oh wow these things that i'm doing in recovery are

00:57:55.260 working and then what were some of the things that you were doing in recovery well i did a bunch in

00:58:00.860 recovery, right? And so I did a lot of therapy. I was really active in 12-step recovery. I had my

00:58:06.280 own personal coaches that were really helpful. And I'll tell you, I believe that recovery is a

00:58:13.420 team sport. I think men need other men to become better men. I think men need vulnerability role

00:58:18.780 models. Men need love and support. Men need to run other men that have similar life experiences

00:58:24.160 around sex to transcend the shame that's keeping our lives small. I think that's really, really

00:58:30.460 important i think men heal best in community as it relates to sexual compulsivity and so

00:58:37.900 yeah it's so hard to heal and shame by yourself you can't i don't think you can i know man i don't

00:58:42.960 think you can it's tough for people huh yeah so i think you know and in conjunction with that

00:58:47.480 so many men today are so isolated and so lonely and so that's the driver of some of these behaviors

00:58:57.380 So once again, the roadmap to healing

00:58:59.760 has to lay the groundwork for connection and community.

00:59:04.560 And so where you practice

00:59:06.260 kind of being part of something bigger than yourself,

00:59:10.100 you practice honesty, you practice vulnerability.

00:59:15.140 It gets modeled to you.

00:59:17.640 Really important for men to see other men living this way.

00:59:21.840 Like in recovery circles and stuff?

00:59:23.060 100%.

00:59:23.540 Oh, yeah, man.

00:59:24.640 Oh, I'll sometimes, man, I'll be in a meeting

00:59:26.540 and it's like some guy will say something my friend james bashera he always tells me uh he

00:59:33.160 says we are the keys to each other's locks that's what he says that's sweet it's one of the best

00:59:37.320 things man i think about it every single day you know it's like something that gives me hope i think

00:59:41.260 a lot of times yeah because it's like uh somebody will say something man that like something inside

00:59:47.620 of me has been trying to save my whole life and i just couldn't put the right few words together

00:59:52.440 it doesn't even have to be a big huge words or fancy words sometimes it's just a simple thing

00:59:57.440 but somebody will say it and a part of me will exhale that's been waiting to exhale for so long

01:00:04.640 how sweet is that yeah oh it's amazing man so yeah i i can't iterate how much recovery and

01:00:11.320 and the community right yeah and then the fact that like dude sometimes like i'll notice like

01:00:17.820 Especially these days

01:00:19.120 We get so caught up in our own worlds

01:00:20.940 But it almost feels like a gift

01:00:23.480 When I think about

01:00:24.180 When somebody else comes into my mind

01:00:25.700 Or heart

01:00:26.080 Like there's times where I purposely sit down

01:00:27.760 I want to think about people and stuff

01:00:29.560 But if I'm just like

01:00:31.000 I'll be like

01:00:32.100 Oh

01:00:32.500 I just saw them the other day

01:00:34.560 And they mentioned this

01:00:35.600 Let me call and check in about it

01:00:36.980 Or just something that's like

01:00:38.420 If it's about somebody else

01:00:40.100 Bro

01:00:41.400 That's like the

01:00:43.220 When that happens naturally in my head

01:00:45.820 it's the best thing that ever happened to me and it's just because of community just but it only

01:00:50.820 happens if i go to those meetings if i'm interacting with guys that's right if i'm a part of of of

01:00:55.600 community right and you need guys in your life like okay theo enough with the show what's really

01:01:01.060 going on right you need guys like that oh dude to tell somebody that bro i'm fucking

01:01:06.080 yeah like this i was in a meeting this morning man i'm trying to let me think about what i said

01:01:11.420 if i'm really honest right i got into a meeting a lot of times i'll do a zoom in the mornings

01:01:17.020 uh you and i go to one that's similar is that okay to say please um and i'll be in the gym i'll work

01:01:23.780 out while i'm in there so i'll listen because it helps me get two things done it makes me feel

01:01:26.980 pretty like i'm doing something and uh what i say today oh i'm trying to keep some negative things

01:01:32.960 out of my head so i'm staying focused i'm staying on a path um like i'm i'm staying active because

01:01:40.460 If I stay active, I stand a better chance when those things come into my head.

01:01:44.460 And I was trying to be honest to guys like, hey, these are some of the things that I've been thinking about.

01:01:48.360 I know that these things grow.

01:01:49.800 If I don't share about them at this level, at this level of being a seed, I know it'll grow into a cactus that I don't want inside of me.

01:01:58.940 So I have to share it at a seed, right?

01:02:00.960 I had to learn a lot of times.

01:02:02.100 I freaking juggled a lot of cactuses because – but learning to share something at a seed level.

01:02:07.920 Calling it out early.

01:02:08.960 Calling it out early, yes.

01:02:09.940 and then just that like uh yeah like i'm so sick of myself but i feel like i'm the only person that

01:02:17.460 i have and that was like and i know it's not true but to share even if it's a feeling right

01:02:23.700 because once i share this feeling i know it's not true i have a ton i have a lot of friends

01:02:28.140 i have people that love me but sometimes i have to share what a feeling is right so it doesn't

01:02:33.520 because that feeling sometimes can grow if i don't share it it sits in there you know anyway

01:02:38.540 Does that make any sense?

01:02:39.480 I make, you know, it's so interesting as you're sharing,

01:02:42.780 I'm just thinking about this concept of like,

01:02:46.600 like recovery is about this journey

01:02:50.980 towards healthy masculinity.

01:02:53.700 And when you think about like,

01:02:56.020 like the word masculinity often gets conflated

01:02:58.740 with toxicity today, which I think is kind of unfair.

01:03:02.160 Oh, it's unfair.

01:03:02.780 And I think it's by design.

01:03:03.920 That's right.

01:03:04.500 Masculinity to me is what you just talked about.

01:03:07.500 honesty, integrity, vulnerability, courage, being a protector, being a provider, being a great

01:03:14.540 friend, showing up for others and living a life that's bigger than just yours. Yeah. And so when

01:03:20.100 you think about like this journey of recovery, this journey to becoming a healthy man, what a

01:03:25.540 beautiful journey it is, right? You think about like, you know, porn abuse teaches us and trains

01:03:30.920 us to objectify and disrespect women. I think healthy masculinity is about humanizing women.

01:03:37.500 Women are beautiful and amazing.

01:03:38.840 Yeah, and we came from a woman.

01:03:40.300 Like, I wonder what the effects are.

01:03:42.840 See if you can find something about this.

01:03:44.540 What are the effects of pornography on young men's relationship with their mothers,

01:03:48.760 of watching pornography?

01:03:51.080 You know what I'm saying?

01:03:51.720 Because it's like, I do notice when I'm healthy and I'm taking care of myself,

01:03:56.560 I'm able to view the women in my life differently, right?

01:04:01.360 And I'm able to view them how they should be viewed.

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01:06:55.320 today you can just go find manscaped at a store near you you know i think a lot of guys are in

01:07:03.440 hiding i think a lot of us are afraid to say that uh we know that we're in a war and everybody's

01:07:10.420 going and fighting behind closed doors and that's kind of crazy when you think about that that's

01:07:15.380 kind of scary that's scary right and how can is there a way to win it that way i don't know

01:07:21.260 um well you know i could tell you from the life i live today i mean i don't feel like i'm in a war

01:07:27.840 you know i have a life that's kind of rooted in love but you've changed so much since i met you

01:07:33.880 man yeah i have you give me hope yeah for the life i could live man that's right and you know

01:07:39.700 you really do i'm glad you do and you were always everybody's favorite you said earlier that people

01:07:44.340 cared about you or like there was something there was always somebody like yeah your family's always

01:07:48.220 you were like the guy in the meetings dude it was like because we went to meetings that had like

01:07:54.400 some fancy people in them real fancy some tall people too oh yeah all guys all types of one tall

01:08:01.000 guy anyway yeah a couple of real grade a perverts right the creme de la creme right that's right

01:08:07.700 but bro and it was but bro we got in those rooms and we here's the thing we laughed in there we

01:08:13.500 were people were honest we laughed uh but yeah you were always like dude i wish i could be friends

01:08:20.540 with steve that's sweet it was the truth thank you and you just made it it's so important to laugh

01:08:27.640 in recovery oh dude people you got to realize this shit it is people laugh so much it's not

01:08:34.840 just this dour thing no no because this stuff is dark it's heavy and uh laughing at each other

01:08:43.280 I think laughter is so good for the soul, man.

01:08:47.040 You read the news right now, it's so heavy.

01:08:49.800 You listen to the news, it's so heavy.

01:08:52.220 Finding a place to be lighthearted,

01:08:54.300 to have fun and to laugh is so healing.

01:08:57.760 Oh, yeah, man.

01:09:01.160 You know how many guys I struggle with

01:09:02.420 that I talk to and work with that are struggling?

01:09:05.560 And if I can get them on the phone,

01:09:06.540 I can get them to laugh.

01:09:07.700 Amen.

01:09:08.600 Oh, dude.

01:09:09.440 Oh, yeah.

01:09:10.020 It just takes it from a nine out of a 10

01:09:11.580 to a six out of a 10.

01:09:13.280 you know yes and it's just so important to let the air out of the balloon with laughter

01:09:18.120 what are the things how do how do how do guys not realize um okay here uh trevin found something

01:09:26.200 right here i'm going to interject real quick here to go back because i've never thought about that

01:09:29.840 before does it affect the way i look at my my sister my mother women in my life and world

01:09:35.560 could be your teacher anyone if you're consuming pornography how porn shaped beliefs affect views

01:09:40.700 of mothers this article explains that frequent exposure to pornography reinforces rigid gender

01:09:45.140 norms and the objectification of women or where women are seen primarily as sexual objects rather

01:09:51.460 than full complex people yeah as these attitudes become part of a teenage boy's belief system

01:09:57.540 he may be begin to see women including his mother through a more dehumanized stereotyped lens

01:10:03.440 we're getting genuine mutual respect and i'll tell you the uh the challenge today with what you just

01:10:11.600 read is so many men today started watching porn when they're 10 11 12 years old right that was

01:10:21.440 like they're part of a generation where the iphone just came out and so they had access to porn at

01:10:27.360 this very early stage of their life and so by the time you get to work with them in treatment or

01:10:32.180 therapy and you hear about like their childhood, they've had pretty normal childhood. Normal,

01:10:37.440 right? Not a lot of trauma as we would understand trauma. The trauma is the porn that they started

01:10:43.220 watching at 10 years old. And it's just kind of intense porn. You know how many guys you hear

01:10:48.660 like 10, 11, 12 years old watching rape porn? I mean, how painful is that when you think about

01:10:54.420 that? Well, yeah, you have to know, oh, it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. And you have

01:10:59.200 to know that these companies and i'm not setting myself apart from anybody like i've been down

01:11:04.260 these roads you know um uh but you have to know that these companies it is this is strategy by

01:11:12.580 them this is a this is i believe i don't think that the people that work in porn or sex work

01:11:18.300 or anything like that i don't i don't have any ill thoughts or any any of that towards anybody

01:11:24.120 like that that's involved in it i just think as a in mass that they don't have the best these

01:11:31.320 these companies don't have the best interest for us right like the a lot of the pornography now

01:11:35.820 it's like um mother son grandmother uh son you know like you can't you can't unsee that right

01:11:42.640 right and it's also makes you think it's like well these are the most important relationships

01:11:47.660 in the world boss secretary you know or just like whatever it is sisters you know it's like

01:11:54.120 they're taking the most valuable relationships that have been given to us by uh our creator and

01:12:02.300 by the world and even by science and they're trying to manipulate those that they don't have

01:12:08.200 any value to us other than sexual some sexual uh perversion and if you're 12 13 14 years old

01:12:15.960 consuming this stuff. Yeah. How are you supposed to process that? Yeah. And just even seeing the

01:12:21.000 words while you're looking at pornography, you see the word mother, son, father, dog. It's all

01:12:25.260 like, it's all a strategy. The devil is at work. Um, I believe that, you know, it's the dark arts

01:12:30.880 and, um, I'm not saying that I don't wade through the waters of them and, you know, but that's one

01:12:36.560 thing that you said, it's like, we continue to fight. We don't give up, you know, and you learn

01:12:40.620 so much along the way yeah um yeah before we keep moving i want to i want to ask you too steve

01:12:46.580 what are there things that could be happening that uh mothers or fathers might not see

01:12:53.260 that how their use of pornography or like checking out like that sexually checking out of like their

01:13:00.140 environment you know their use of watching pornography um could be affecting things

01:13:04.680 with their interactions with their children or their home life uh yeah totally you know it's

01:13:10.780 so interesting as as a because sometimes you don't correlate that no you don't you know i'm saying

01:13:14.080 you just think man my marriage isn't working but separately i'm watching porn that's right

01:13:17.740 and so when you think about the idea of healthy masculinity being in recovery and being a father

01:13:24.720 right and so i'm a new father right now and you know my son's young he's almost about a year

01:13:30.760 right now but they're just the the responsibility i have in modeling to him how you treat a woman

01:13:37.960 really important right the kindness that i show his wife getting to see affection touch

01:13:45.960 all that stuff is really important i don't you know you i know your story from your childhood

01:13:51.880 you know my story from my childhood that wasn't necessarily modeled to us and so if you're

01:13:57.360 watching pornography right and as a result of that it's distorting your view of women

01:14:02.780 can be challenging right you think maybe they don't know trust me they know they may not know

01:14:09.100 you're watching porn but that energy you have that you you can't hide that yeah it's a little

01:14:14.640 bit of shame it's a little bit of i'm keeping something secret that's right it's a little bit

01:14:17.620 of something's wrong and i'm it's a little bit of i'm scared somebody's gonna figure this out

01:14:22.960 and I don't even know what it is.

01:14:24.520 Well, you know what happens too, also,

01:14:26.540 guys that abuse porn, right?

01:14:28.520 They're just not present for their lives.

01:14:30.400 Yeah.

01:14:30.860 They're not showing up for their kids, right?

01:14:34.960 They're on their phones.

01:14:36.320 They're consumed in fantasy.

01:14:37.920 They're not present.

01:14:38.700 They're missing life.

01:14:40.020 Yeah.

01:14:40.640 You're missing life.

01:14:42.600 And so when you guys get into recovery,

01:14:45.360 dude, you see this all the time,

01:14:46.620 they start coaching flag football teams and loving it.

01:14:50.920 They're able to show up in their lives

01:14:52.480 and be present they're better fathers they're better husbands they're emotionally regulated

01:14:58.180 yeah they're not involved it's almost like porn is like your it's like your wiener playing video

01:15:02.920 games that's it's not real if you walked into a room every day and your wiener was playing a

01:15:07.540 video game at some point you'd be like turn it off and get the fuck up and go outside you know

01:15:12.560 what i'm saying like you would tell you want your mate depends on what video game that's a good

01:15:16.560 actually if it's castlevania or something yeah but i'm just saying like anyway i don't know what

01:15:22.180 i'm saying um that's one thing i noticed in uh in meetings when i've been in when people share

01:15:27.520 um and people start to get better they start to say man like today i had the desire to spend time

01:15:36.420 with my kids to engage to go outside and do this with my daughter to like uh flirt with my wife in

01:15:42.700 the kitchen like i walk in the house and there's a look on my face that i'm excited to see this

01:15:46.820 person that loves me just little things like that that i've heard guys share in meetings that are

01:15:50.420 like that just let me know that um that recovery is real you know and the joy of living yeah what

01:15:56.860 have you seen recovery look like for people like what are some testimonials that you've experienced

01:16:00.480 in the rooms yeah um and even through valor yeah and so uh lots of good stuff uh let me think of a

01:16:08.060 few good ones that might be well i'll share a story one of our first clients um 62 year old man

01:16:15.980 been uh abusing porn for about 40 years and long time you know and uh by the time he got to valor

01:16:24.380 he was six years sober and alcoholics anonymous um but he was in so much pain he had not been

01:16:32.960 divorced for 10 years, had not had sex in 10 years and was so full of shame. And when I first met

01:16:39.720 with him, you know, I would try to like get some goals. Like, what do you want to try to accomplish

01:16:43.540 here? And I said, well, I want to stop watching porn. I said, awesome. We're going to help you

01:16:47.800 do that. What else? Tell me when to play. And he just couldn't get there. Just make something up.

01:16:52.940 Tell me a long-term goal. If you had like a genie in a bottle, you had a wish, give me something.

01:16:57.960 I'll never forget what he said

01:16:59.620 he said you know something Steve

01:17:01.600 for as long as I can remember

01:17:04.540 now

01:17:05.180 on Sundays I go grocery

01:17:08.400 shopping by myself

01:17:10.720 for the week

01:17:11.260 and I see family shopping and

01:17:14.380 couple shopping and

01:17:15.580 it's so lonely

01:17:17.240 he goes one day

01:17:20.500 I'd like

01:17:22.380 to go shopping with a girl

01:17:24.420 I'm dating

01:17:24.880 I said okay

01:17:27.200 you know about eight months later that guy sent me a shot of him and his girlfriend grocery

01:17:35.280 shopping and it broke me and i remember telling my wife this story and just crying

01:17:42.260 and she's like what's coming up for you and she can't really understand because two things

01:17:49.920 i know that pain of loneliness and i know how good it feels to be free of it

01:17:56.320 wow great story love that story on what's on offer here that's what's on offer here huh yeah

01:18:05.040 the doys of living finding love another great story you hear you hear this with consistency

01:18:10.260 you know i get a phone call with a guy that's maybe sober six nine months this one guy in

01:18:15.820 particular and he says steve you know last night i was on the couch staring at my wife

01:18:21.220 and it's like I'm seeing her for the first time

01:18:25.120 and I can't believe how pretty she is.

01:18:28.340 Wow.

01:18:29.360 Like to me, hearing that brings me so much joy

01:18:33.300 when you kind of, that fog lifts,

01:18:37.600 that porn-induced shame-based fog lifts

01:18:40.880 and you can actually see life in color

01:18:43.620 versus black and white.

01:18:46.340 What a gift, you know?

01:18:49.000 Yeah, man.

01:18:50.360 And then you see guys that get time.

01:18:52.540 This is what drives me wild.

01:18:54.840 They get time.

01:18:56.060 They get six months, nine months, a year away from pornography.

01:18:58.440 And wild stuff starts happening.

01:19:01.140 They go back to grad school.

01:19:03.240 They launch a new business.

01:19:05.420 They get a big raise.

01:19:07.340 Like, what the hell's I got to do with you not watching porn?

01:19:09.880 Yeah.

01:19:10.500 The answer's everything.

01:19:11.760 Because what's happening now is you're transcending the shame that's keeping your life small.

01:19:18.020 you always hear like a guy all of a sudden

01:19:21.800 guy lacks confidence in himself

01:19:23.920 he's so full of shame lives a double life

01:19:25.620 he walks into a restaurant can never actually

01:19:27.800 make eye contact with that woman at the bar

01:19:29.900 he maybe looks over puts his head down

01:19:31.700 and walks to his table

01:19:32.980 he's now nine months sober right

01:19:35.540 he makes eye contact walks over

01:19:37.840 and introduces himself

01:19:38.940 and they're now engaged

01:19:41.340 let's go

01:19:43.240 these are the stories of recovery

01:19:45.740 didn't mention anything

01:19:47.740 about not watching porn.

01:19:49.400 Not watching porn is just the point of entry.

01:19:53.420 Learning how to live a life

01:19:54.880 that you don't need to escape from

01:19:57.040 is what recovery's all about.

01:19:59.920 Recovery's about learning how to experience

01:20:02.260 the joys of love and connection.

01:20:05.780 So one simple question I tell guys all the time,

01:20:08.240 it's real simple, it's real simple.

01:20:10.120 Is your porn use bringing you closer to

01:20:12.360 or further away from the man you wanna be?

01:20:15.180 and if you don't like the answer to that question

01:20:18.340 what do you want to do about it

01:20:20.760 yeah

01:20:22.380 yeah it's it's uh

01:20:30.020 i've been in a lot of the meetings where i've seen guys share about stuff and

01:20:34.100 you've seen a guy have a new experience you know

01:20:37.240 it's the best when does a lot of this start is there a time that you notice

01:20:41.880 how and when a lot of this starts for a lot of guys steve have you been

01:20:45.140 able to put together any theories about that younger and younger you know because you've

01:20:50.920 talked a lot about valor on your podcast we we have seen a lot of younger men in their 20s when

01:20:57.480 i first started valor i thought i would work with guys like me older professional men that are

01:21:02.200 dealing with a porn addiction sexual compulsivity and need to get help and we've worked with a fair

01:21:07.120 amount of that but we because of your fan base there are a lot of single men in their 20s

01:21:13.500 and um challenging dynamic because they're not married they're not in a relationship

01:21:20.380 there's no external consequences and they've been doing this for like 10 15 years right

01:21:28.220 and so it's like you know they've been in full-blown addiction for over a decade

01:21:34.480 and they're 22 years old i don't even realize it i don't realize it that's the craziest part

01:21:38.880 Wild. Wild.

01:21:40.440 It's just like a regular habit.

01:21:41.620 It's like taking a melatonin.

01:21:43.600 A hundred percent.

01:21:44.440 It's just part of their life.

01:21:45.880 Yeah.

01:21:46.260 It has rewired and conditioned their brain.

01:21:48.800 And they're full of so much shame.

01:21:51.680 And they lack such confidence in themselves.

01:21:54.160 So breaking them free of porn.

01:21:56.840 It's interesting.

01:21:57.800 How do you motivate and inspire a guy like that to stay on this journey?

01:22:02.100 How do you create motivation in their life to continue on this path?

01:22:06.320 even though their path can be choppy at times.

01:22:09.240 Yes.

01:22:10.100 How do you get that guy to continue to show up

01:22:12.240 and not be in shame if he watches a little bit of porn?

01:22:15.140 Right, that guy can be getting better.

01:22:17.320 Watching 80 to 90% less porn over any given month,

01:22:20.140 great job, keep coming back.

01:22:22.880 If you return to the behavior and you relapse

01:22:25.380 or return to use, own it quickly, talk about it,

01:22:29.220 learn from it, and keep growing.

01:22:32.160 Yeah.

01:22:32.400 And so motivating younger men has been a little different and to create inspiration, because here's the truth. They're so isolated and so disconnected. They have significantly less friends than decades before. Everything is kind of online. Everything is virtual. And so the loneliness is profound.

01:22:59.020 Well, as part of existence, it's not like, I think some people, you don't even notice that

01:23:05.120 you're lonely anymore. That's one of the wildest things. You'll spend all day by yourself, but you

01:23:10.140 won't really notice that you're lonely because you have some interactions, you see people, you see

01:23:14.920 them. So there's all this hijacking of things that are real that would normally make you feel like

01:23:21.080 you are not alone. You see people, you hear voices, you know, I mean, you're, you know,

01:23:27.220 you can even engage hearing voices is perhaps it's like you can see people on your phone or

01:23:33.560 on your computer you can you can do facetime like you can so there's all these like like these

01:23:39.420 secondary little pieces but the connection the true the reality and remote work certainly doesn't

01:23:47.960 help i mean there are guys that just don't leave their home well yeah it's like you could basically

01:23:53.900 go to work online you could get off or get some order some food online then you could uh look at

01:24:00.800 pornography or something go to bed and that's your day and that's your existence and you're just sort

01:24:04.100 of this thing but there's so much we're supposed to be so much more than that I think some of it

01:24:10.160 has become almost just this habit that we don't even know that we're in yeah I could see that

01:24:15.300 and I mean I've yeah and I'm not preaching at anybody I think it's just like I don't know just

01:24:20.180 the like the awareness that you could be in something and not realize it is something kind

01:24:24.540 of wild you know yeah i think that's that's that's absolutely true and um what are some what

01:24:33.460 are i want to ask you outside of valor because you run valor recovery that's your program and um

01:24:39.240 and thank you so much i know there was a lot of guys like who kind of came in through

01:24:43.900 through the podcast who you like were trying to help and offer um uh recovery to so thank you so

01:24:50.500 much for having conversations with those guys over the years um and by the way so many of those guys

01:24:54.840 are killing it right now are they yes they are and i'm going to say this to you because it needs

01:25:00.700 to be heard there are so many men that because of your vulnerability on this podcast talking about

01:25:07.960 your challenges around that gave them the courage to reach out and ask for help so your vulnerability

01:25:14.780 is a gift to this world well thank you i appreciate that yeah uh yeah sometimes it's

01:25:23.740 scary to be vulnerable i don't know it's not scary it's like i don't know i don't know any

01:25:26.660 other way to live really you know i don't think i know any other way to live i don't know i don't

01:25:35.440 know sometimes I'm thinking I share too much probably but well I could tell you as it relates

01:25:40.060 to this topic I can't tell you how many conversations we've had in the thousands now

01:25:44.920 where the conversation starts Theo said it was okay to talk about this

01:25:51.500 I've shared those stories with you over the years yeah I know you have I appreciate it that's

01:25:57.500 important man yeah it's important stuff what a gift

01:26:02.300 yeah it's i uh yeah i mean it makes it it's it's tough to know that a lot of people are hurting

01:26:10.300 you know it's tough to know that i that we've all hurt you know it's tough to know most of the

01:26:14.880 people that i love the most have have have hurt a lot of us you know me included um and we didn't

01:26:23.680 just end up, you know, yeah, I'm just glad I've met a lot of good guys through, through, uh,

01:26:29.740 recovery, you know, uh, there wouldn't be a program, you know, if you didn't do it.

01:26:34.440 That's right. And the great thing about recovery is you can live a life that's superior to the life

01:26:41.860 you were living. Yeah. That's the truth. That's the beauty of it. And so not easy sometimes to

01:26:47.780 get there. But if you stay the course, you don't give up. You keep leaning into this. You're going

01:26:53.640 to build a life that brings you joy where you don't need to engage in behaviors to numb the

01:27:00.320 pain that you're in. That's a process. Yeah. What are some of the triggers that you see,

01:27:07.140 uh, that you notice? Is that okay to ask? Yeah. I can know there's just patterns, right? So many

01:27:13.840 men struggle with profound loneliness and boredom. They're disconnected. They're alone. And so when

01:27:21.280 you look at these urges, right, there's tends to be a predictability to when you're vulnerable to

01:27:27.120 them, right? So late at night, scrolling on your phone, dude, leave the phone. Don't bring the phone

01:27:32.500 to the bedroom. Yeah. Shut it down. Simple fix. Well, Steve, I work all week long Friday nights.

01:27:36.800 I'm by myself. And there's just this period of time right now of unstructured time where I'm

01:27:42.740 really vulnerable. Okay, let's make a plan around that. Why don't you book dinner? Why don't you

01:27:47.860 bookend the evening with a friend of yours so you're not alone right now? Make a dinner date

01:27:52.560 with a friend right now. Get out of the house, right? And so there's just these patterns that

01:27:57.460 men experience as it relates to stress, boredom, and loneliness. And so when you pull up and kind

01:28:04.380 of look at this stuff, right, and learn from this stuff, you can, men don't plan to fail,

01:28:11.160 they fail to plan. And so working with people that understand this can go a long way to putting

01:28:19.560 you on the path to being successful. Amen, man. Yeah. The other thing that's really tricky today

01:28:24.540 is going for a walk with a friend. Just go for a walk. Dude, my best time. Maybe we'll go for a

01:28:28.960 walk after this, me and you. Yeah. I'll go for a walk with you. Yeah. You got a little time?

01:28:32.260 I'll make time. I'd love it, dude. Yeah, bro. Thank you, bro. Dude, there's nothing better

01:28:36.880 than going for a walk with one of your friends. It might seem like, and even if y'all are straight,

01:28:40.600 y'all can do it if you're not straight you could do it but some of that stuff got hijacked by the

01:28:45.340 gay community i think like just going for a walk with your buddy i'm not saying it did yeah but it

01:28:50.180 got slightly hijacked so just a hint hey we got to take our we got to take our pedestrian rights

01:28:55.220 back um but anyway what were we saying we're talking about triggers oh yeah so that's one for

01:29:00.820 me i noticed things that would lead me to do masturbation or be touching my body sometimes

01:29:04.760 like that, looking at pornography, stress, right? I'm up later than I need to be. A lot of times

01:29:11.000 I'll have a deal with myself. I have a plan to go to bed. Shit will happen. Shit will happen with

01:29:14.080 work. Next thing I'm up 45 minutes later, I can't handle it. Right. So now it's like, I got to go

01:29:19.160 to sleep. I'll think that masturbation will help me go to sleep. Right. Um, what else? Uh, social

01:29:25.860 media. Yeah. Social media. Just, I know, I know that that keeps me up late. So I don't, I do a

01:29:31.340 pretty good job of that of stuff like i know now when i when i open up there's not even super good

01:29:36.880 in there you know i'll maybe say all right i'm gonna go for 30 seconds you find one thing that's

01:29:43.020 kind of engaging and i'm shutting it down i'm starting to realize that what a pandora's box it

01:29:47.220 is it really is and you know the science will support that like these dopamine spikes from

01:29:52.640 this endless scrolling on social media yeah and you you look at the sexual content on social media

01:29:59.320 It may not be full porn, but it can be pretty explicit.

01:30:02.680 Yeah.

01:30:02.940 And so it's a real problem because it's this funnel.

01:30:07.400 And oftentimes, guys in early recovery get tripped up

01:30:10.000 because they're on Instagram right now.

01:30:12.240 There's this kind of image, which is a link to an OnlyFans account,

01:30:16.020 and all of a sudden, they're back in the dance.

01:30:18.040 Yeah.

01:30:18.540 And so that's really important.

01:30:21.020 That's kind of endless scrolling, endless seeking novelty

01:30:24.840 can be really challenging.

01:30:27.040 Because the alternative is, though,

01:30:29.180 you have to think about what that is and you have to plan for that in your head i noticed for myself

01:30:32.640 right so if i'm not gonna be scrolling i might just be laying there in my bed right and what's

01:30:38.740 wrong with that there's nothing wrong with it but at first it can feel a bit uncomfortable oh i should

01:30:43.160 be doing something those are the feelings i go through i should be doing something right and you

01:30:48.220 know you're like well what would that be so at first it's a little tough now sometimes my mind

01:30:54.060 will start to just imagine or think of things which is kind of nice right like if it's not

01:30:58.400 negative stuff it's like my mind it's like daydreaming or something used to be something

01:31:02.060 people did a lot daydreaming but so that can happen or i can read or i can just go to sleep

01:31:07.380 but there is a little bit of like an uncomfortable moment sometimes where it's like i should be doing

01:31:12.000 something but i don't i'm not really playing i don't really mean i should be doing something i

01:31:17.140 mean i'm usually mean i should just be looking at something on my phone can you tolerate the

01:31:22.520 boredom in that moment or do you need to go get a quick fix if i do i'm doing meditation pretty

01:31:28.040 regularly now good so i'm having a little bit more tolerate more toleration with it it's important

01:31:32.340 yeah a little more toleration with it like the the short form videos these kind of quick fixes

01:31:37.860 on all these social media is such a distraction yeah right and so getting time away from your

01:31:43.660 phone oh yeah that's key long form reading hobbies creativity working on projects i think are so

01:31:53.300 healthy for you yeah i think yeah doing things building a little birdhouse doing something like

01:31:57.920 that getting excited about leap year just doing regular shit when is you know huh when is next

01:32:03.080 leap year we'll never know bro because for you know it is gone that's right that's how it is

01:32:08.340 i missed a lot of leap years over the years who hasn't when um let's look at some of those stats

01:32:15.440 what did you have trevin i want to get a little bit of information here um i want to say this

01:32:21.060 just so people to give a little bit more context to pornography overall uh porn hub was the fifth

01:32:26.800 most visited website in the world by December, 2020, just if people don't think that we are at

01:32:31.460 war, right? Some people think like, oh, America, we're safe. We're not, we're, we're at war.

01:32:39.000 Pornhub had about 170 million visits per day and 62 billion visits per year.

01:32:44.760 And that was 2020. The amount of content uploaded to Pornhub in a single year would

01:32:49.640 take about 169 years to watch if you played the videos back to back.

01:32:56.800 And this was some information because sometimes you're watching stuff on there where the people in it have not consented to it being put online or that it was even recorded.

01:33:07.980 And sometimes that it's not – that they haven't consented even to the sex in the video, right?

01:33:15.440 The Broward County, Florida case, this was a case.

01:33:18.020 A 15-year-old girl missing for a year was found only after a Pornhub user recognized her and tipped off her mother.

01:33:24.840 police eventually found her in 58 monetized videos on the site so just to know how porn hub is okay

01:33:33.140 with operating uh lila micklewaite who came on here and she has done a great job with exposing

01:33:39.400 the porn industry um for the negative aspects of it uh the london sunday times investigation

01:33:45.540 reporters were able to find dozens of illegal videos on the site within minutes including

01:33:49.840 videos of children as young as three that were on Pornhub. So just to let you know the kind of

01:33:59.760 stuff that can be happening on there. Oh, nice. So Lila tested that. Oh, at the time, Lila tested

01:34:06.740 the upload flow to just see how easy it was to just put something up. All it took to upload a

01:34:11.740 video was an email address. There was no ID or age verification, no consent verification required

01:34:17.140 for people in the videos.

01:34:19.500 Huh.

01:34:20.540 Anyone with a smartphone could upload a video

01:34:22.220 in under 10 minutes from anywhere in the world.

01:34:26.000 So, anyway, it just gives a little more context

01:34:28.980 to what we're even watching.

01:34:30.240 Because sometimes you're looking at something

01:34:31.340 and you don't even really know what it is.

01:34:33.740 Or where it came from.

01:34:34.560 Or where it came from, right?

01:34:36.500 And if you can add some context to it,

01:34:38.060 it makes it a little bit different.

01:34:39.100 You know, so many of those people

01:34:41.080 have been either physically or sexually abused

01:34:43.740 in their childhood, right?

01:34:45.720 have been trafficked this is not sometimes this is non-consent and uh there's just a gross element

01:34:52.560 to a lot of it there is and you get you kind of get tricked in a little i think in a way you don't

01:34:57.260 maybe realize it i don't know especially if you're kind of susceptible um oh yeah this right here i

01:35:03.340 remember this visa and mastercard suspend payments for ad purchases on porn hub and mind geek amid

01:35:07.960 controversy um visa and mastercard said thursday card payments for advertising on porn hub and its

01:35:14.600 Parent company MindGeek would be suspended after a lawsuit stoke controversy

01:35:18.360 or whether the payment giants could be facilitating child pornography.

01:35:26.200 Visa condemns sex trafficking, sexual exploitation, and child sexual abuse.

01:35:31.380 It is illegal, and Visa does not permit the use of our network for illegal activity

01:35:35.400 because Visa was being accepted on these websites.

01:35:39.560 So it's kind of crazy.

01:35:40.700 It's like, okay, so you're saying that if this is happening on these websites,

01:35:43.860 then you're okay with your kind of complicit right you're kind of complicit give me an update

01:35:50.460 on that if you can and who owns mind geek changed to a low i remember it that a y l o who owns that

01:35:55.900 company ethical capital partners of course they do of course they do unbelievable parent organization

01:36:06.780 is Ethical Capital Partners.

01:36:08.480 Key ECP leadership is Fadi Mansour,

01:36:11.900 a managing partner,

01:36:13.020 Rocco Miliambro,

01:36:15.000 and Solomon Friedman.

01:36:18.560 Through its parent company,

01:36:19.960 ECP owns some of those

01:36:21.060 highly trafficked digital networks

01:36:22.380 in the adult entertainment industry,

01:36:23.720 including Pornhub, RedTube,

01:36:25.500 YouPorn, Brazzers, and Min.com.

01:36:27.940 Find photos of those guys if you can,

01:36:29.580 just so we can put the faces

01:36:30.620 with just who they are.

01:36:32.440 And that's all according to what site?

01:36:35.260 Wikipedia.

01:36:36.500 Okay, that's all Google and Wikipedia.

01:36:38.480 So, yeah, give me pictures of those three guys.

01:36:42.280 Let's put them up just so people know who feels like it's okay, you know?

01:36:47.440 And I do want to say most recently I saw there was a story I saw where one of the financial companies failed to stop a payment for – was it OnlyFans?

01:36:59.360 It was something that was – MasterCard, Visa failed to stop payments on OnlyFans for child sex abuse content.

01:37:05.440 says a whistleblower. Let me see. MasterCard and Visa failed to stop their payment networks

01:37:11.740 from laundering proceeds from child sex abuse material and sex trafficking on the popular

01:37:15.440 website. OnlyFans, according to allegations in a previously undisclosed whistleblower

01:37:19.580 complaint filled with the U.S. Treasury's Financial Crimes Unit. The complaint was

01:37:26.300 filed in January 2023. The complaint said the whistleblower and other anti-trafficking experts,

01:37:31.140 including U.S. federal agents alerted Visa and MasterCard to unlawful content on OnlyFans

01:37:35.820 in a series of calls in 2021 and 2022.

01:37:39.600 The federal agents corroborated the presence of child sexual abuse material on OnlyFans.

01:37:44.360 The complaint said it also drew heavily on a 2022 study by an anti-trafficking group

01:37:49.200 that said it had found a high volume of OnlyFans accounts

01:37:52.460 with common indicators of child sexual abuse material or sex trafficking.

01:37:57.240 The whistleblower said he helped with the study, which was shared with the card companies.

01:38:02.760 In the interview, the whistleblower said the agencies never contacted him to discuss his complaint.

01:38:07.280 The card companies had the power to turn off the switch to stop illicit material from being monetized.

01:38:13.300 So there's just, you know, it goes to the place, I guess, there's a business element to it.

01:38:19.900 A Visa spokesperson said financial institutions and merchants that don't comply with Visa's robust compliance requirements

01:38:25.540 will be terminated from its network.

01:38:27.600 The company uses best-in-class controls

01:38:29.440 to deter, detect, and remediate illegal activity.

01:38:33.360 If there's anything else I should in there, let me know.

01:38:37.180 Since the whistleblower complaint was filed,

01:38:38.800 Reuters uncovered more allegations of child sexual abuse

01:38:41.520 and sex trafficking on OnlyFans,

01:38:43.460 a porn-driven site that generates money

01:38:45.100 through subscriptions and pay-per-view content.

01:38:48.140 Huh.

01:38:49.380 I mean, those companies are also so big,

01:38:51.620 I bet it's so hard to police everything.

01:38:54.260 Sure.

01:38:54.440 and that was just a complaint trevin that's right not a ruling um but it was officially

01:39:00.500 filed it's on the record okay got it okay thank you so much um tell me a little bit about um

01:39:07.920 valor recovery and this this episode was not intended at all to be an ad for your company

01:39:11.680 or anything like that but um you know this is just such a thing and you're the guy that i know

01:39:16.660 and we've been friends for so long um but tell me about valor and thank you for starting it yeah

01:39:21.380 Yeah, thank you.

01:39:22.600 Valor Recovery is a company I founded many years ago now

01:39:25.580 that helps men that are struggling with pornography abuse

01:39:28.860 and sexual compulsivity.

01:39:31.160 It's a virtual program.

01:39:33.340 You know, what we have found over the years

01:39:36.020 is so many men struggle getting help for this,

01:39:39.660 finding the right type of help.

01:39:42.600 Using community-based resources are challenging

01:39:45.980 because of shame and stigma.

01:39:48.020 Like, what do you mean by that?

01:39:49.500 Like, going to a meeting locally?

01:39:50.540 Going to a meeting locally, going to a program locally.

01:39:54.900 People are just, they're so concerned given the nature of this.

01:39:59.740 And they don't take advantage of those resources.

01:40:02.280 So creating a virtual program that can be accessible with a click of a button, right, is amazing, right?

01:40:08.740 And offering something that's more discreet just helps guys feel more comfortable getting help.

01:40:14.920 And so virtual program, it's a coaching program.

01:40:19.300 And the thing that's really unique about that, what we have found is so many men benefit from coaching on this topic.

01:40:27.000 Different than therapy.

01:40:28.400 Therapy is very valuable as well.

01:40:30.820 But coaching is around accountability, setting goals, learning new skills, and practicing those skills so you think and feel differently about yourself over time.

01:40:42.500 Got it.

01:40:43.020 Yeah, you have to put something on the other side of the scale.

01:40:44.940 That's one thing I've learned in recovery.

01:40:46.240 I'm not saying I do it all the time, but you, you, you can't just, you have, you have to put

01:40:53.600 something on the other side of the scale that has valuable weight to it. I think that's right.

01:40:57.660 And so, you know, the program is unique. One of the unique aspects around it, everyone that works

01:41:02.900 at Valor Recovery is in long-term sexual recovery. So they, these are men that have 10 years, 20

01:41:08.620 years, in several cases, 30 years of sexual sobriety. Why is that important? It's just the

01:41:14.140 shared life experience puts us in a very unique position to help people to understand people

01:41:20.500 because we've been there we are you so collectively this team has helped thousands of people

01:41:26.060 over their lifetimes deal with these challenges right so that's really important uh it's a program

01:41:32.180 that really uh is set up with small intimate groups so that men learn to be part of a community

01:41:39.380 Got it. Men learn how to connect with each other. The opposite of addiction is often not

01:41:44.780 recovery. It's often said to be connection. And so we're a program that offers small group

01:41:50.940 settings, process groups. There's curriculum around how to deal with urges and triggers,

01:41:57.040 identify root causes that are driving compulsions, curriculum around healthy intimacy,

01:42:02.560 healthy sexuality, and healthy masculinity. Amen.

01:42:05.940 And so we've had a lot of men come to this program and get better.

01:42:09.980 It's something we take a lot of pride in.

01:42:11.660 Now, it's not easy work.

01:42:13.100 I can promise you that.

01:42:14.380 It's not easy work.

01:42:15.860 But we take a lot of pride in helping men become the men God intended them to be.

01:42:21.820 And whatever that word God means to higher self, whatever that is, we help men put them in alignment with their higher self so they can go on and do good things in their lives.

01:42:31.120 are there guys or women out there who may not have a problem specifically with porn

01:42:37.400 but is there other things they could be having a problem with yeah i think what what you're

01:42:43.200 what you're asking me is if the can people be suffering from other behaviors other than

01:42:50.300 pornography that could be having the same outcome for them that's correct yeah that's what i'm

01:42:53.800 asking you is it relationship compulsivity infidelity in relationships prostitution i

01:42:59.380 I mean, there's just a host of behaviors that can manifest itself that are just really unhealthy

01:43:05.320 for people. And so men or woman doesn't necessarily have to be pornography. And so the answer is yes.

01:43:13.900 And there are just a lot of great resources out there for both men and women to deal with these

01:43:19.180 issues, whether it's working with a therapist that may be trained in sexual compulsivity or

01:43:26.320 sex addiction there are great 12-step programs out there different fellowships for men and women

01:43:31.580 sex addicts anonymous sex and love addicts anonymous sexaholics anonymous uh that men

01:43:38.620 and women that are community-based 12-step based programs that could be really valuable

01:43:43.000 they're great adult children of alcoholics sorry to interrupt you i just want to forget

01:43:46.020 there's a lot of important yeah people don't realize that there's things out there that it's

01:43:49.720 like you might be like well i'm not this i don't have this but maybe my parent did and you lived

01:43:54.300 in the shadows of it, or you lived as a recipient of the byproducts of it. There's recovery stuff

01:44:00.680 for that. And we're not saying everybody needs recovery, but we're saying that this, some of

01:44:04.140 this stuff is a big issue that's facing people and we both struggle with it. So shit, other people

01:44:08.980 might. And that's right. And I think the one thing you can listen to, this is not a life sentence,

01:44:13.240 not a death sentence, man. You can get better. For sure. You can absolutely get better and you

01:44:16.940 can live that life that you've dreamed of. It's going to take work, but there are great people

01:44:21.200 out there to help you yes and so if you're struggling i mean have the courage to reach out

01:44:27.380 and get some help yeah and we'll put links to like uh valor we'll put links to um um sex and

01:44:33.800 love addiction um intimacy disorder anonymous just we'll put a link to some of those things

01:44:38.300 in this so people can check it out there's like some online like um zoom sex addiction meetings

01:44:44.680 that you can go to can i share that publicly yeah there's those meetings you can go to you can just

01:44:49.580 sit with your camera off and just listen and, and see what it's like, see how people are sharing

01:44:55.160 and see what's going on. Um, yeah, I just want to know that that stuff's out there. I think

01:45:00.300 sometimes people don't even know that it's out there. I didn't know it existed, you know, until

01:45:04.460 you get into certain places and you're like, you know, I was realizing I was just having such a

01:45:08.360 tough time in relationships and a relationship with myself. It was like, it was so hard for me

01:45:16.220 to get to know myself without like um i always feel like i had to just prove who i was even to me

01:45:23.320 like almost every day it was like yeah it was like if i didn't i had to do something to show

01:45:32.680 you who i was i couldn't just be right um i've had like that love what's it called love attraction

01:45:40.800 love avoidance what is love avoiding but what is it when you it's like come here go away or

01:45:44.520 whatever that thing not sure it's like come here go away i would hey whatever that shit was bro

01:45:49.960 sounds awful yeah oh but it was it was a lot of my relationships yeah it was like hey i need you

01:45:56.300 over here i want to be with you but then the second somebody got close i was like that's right

01:46:01.120 and if a lot of guys there's sexual anorexia what is that i mean just a complete avoidance of all

01:46:07.760 sex oh i thought you're starving so you have sex or whatever a good hamburger you know no

01:46:14.020 that's how that american pie scene came to be sexual anorexia is a term coined in 1975 by

01:46:21.020 psychologist nathan hare to describe a fear or deep aversion to sexual activity it is considered

01:46:26.740 a loss of appetite for sexual contact conduct and may result in a fear of intimacy may result

01:46:32.820 in a fear of intimacy or an aversion to any type of sexual interaction and the compulsive non-sex

01:46:40.240 is an addiction of it itself, right?

01:46:43.280 And so you just think about like, you know,

01:46:45.380 what we are striving for, right,

01:46:48.280 is a version of healthy sexuality that works for you.

01:46:51.500 Yeah.

01:46:52.120 So many guys get into recovery and then that's it.

01:46:54.660 I've stopped these behaviors.

01:46:56.480 And they can go for a while,

01:46:58.200 but they're kind of unhappy and miserable.

01:47:00.540 So unless you kind of lean in and challenge yourself

01:47:03.520 to date, companionship, connection, healthy sex,

01:47:07.940 that's what recovery is about.

01:47:09.660 that's how you put these behaviors in the rearview mirror and never look back

01:47:13.300 you have to replace it with something that brings you more joy

01:47:17.320 and purpose amen yeah

01:47:21.080 and a lot of times that will happen because you're

01:47:24.620 the way the program's set up it's like you interact with more people you say

01:47:29.240 yes to more things it's like you know so it's like

01:47:32.240 and it's easier to say yes when you're not full of shame oh for sure when you're feeling better about

01:47:37.360 yourself because you're not putting that junk in your system with consistency you know it just

01:47:41.480 gives you uh your ability to show up as the best version of yourself kind of happens over time

01:47:48.260 yeah yeah it's a learning process man yeah and the thing is the program is always there so if you

01:47:55.440 if something happens or something you know i'm saying if you have a setback or whatever's going

01:48:00.000 on it's always there it's there it's like unconditional that's pretty cool it is great

01:48:06.580 That's like that.

01:48:07.980 Oh, here's a summary of Hal Shorrie's,

01:48:10.480 come here, go away, the dynamics of fearful attachment.

01:48:14.140 Wow.

01:48:14.560 I think this is what I had.

01:48:17.080 Past tense?

01:48:17.780 Fearful attachment.

01:48:18.580 Yeah, I don't think I have this anymore.

01:48:19.600 Nice.

01:48:20.640 Which is, it's kind of crazy.

01:48:21.800 It's like now I feel like, I used to never think I would,

01:48:25.340 dude, it's so funny.

01:48:26.420 When I was a kid, this is true.

01:48:28.160 And when I was even a teen and young adult,

01:48:30.380 I didn't understand how people could be married.

01:48:32.780 It didn't even make sense to me at a level of like human affection.

01:48:38.760 Like, I don't even understand.

01:48:40.800 I remember I'd go watch people's families eat dinner and shit.

01:48:44.040 I'd go sit and like watch Peep and Tommen or whatever, right?

01:48:47.520 Because it was like a full, I didn't even understand it.

01:48:51.160 Well, what was modeled to you in your child at home?

01:48:54.140 Now you understand it.

01:48:55.440 Nothing.

01:48:56.240 There it is.

01:48:57.400 I mean, nothing.

01:48:58.380 In fact, the opposite.

01:49:00.180 The opposite of nothing.

01:49:00.980 Yes.

01:49:01.500 Less than nothing.

01:49:02.080 less than nothing dude

01:49:03.520 some weird integer

01:49:04.860 but dude

01:49:06.840 and at the time

01:49:08.280 I didn't even know

01:49:08.700 I didn't even know

01:49:09.340 what I was doing

01:49:09.940 but I was just so like

01:49:12.300 it was like

01:49:13.920 it was like

01:49:14.420 watching somebody

01:49:15.060 find something

01:49:16.140 I don't know

01:49:16.700 see something foreign

01:49:17.540 and then

01:49:19.200 and then slowly

01:49:21.540 over time

01:49:22.360 it made sense to me

01:49:23.780 and then there was like

01:49:24.780 times where I was like

01:49:25.540 I remember the first time

01:49:26.940 that I thought

01:49:28.480 I wanted to have a family

01:49:29.900 bro it blew my mind i never felt that in my life you know i cannot wait till you get married and

01:49:39.000 have a kid yeah we gotta get it out there boy i cannot wait you're gonna just a you're gonna be

01:49:46.980 you have a heart as big as any person i know thanks bro and the more that you get comfortable

01:49:53.140 showing that side of you to a woman and build a life right now with that person my goodness

01:49:59.320 It's going to be incredible to be part of.

01:50:01.860 Yeah, we're going to have to get a camper, dude.

01:50:03.300 We're going to have to hit the road.

01:50:03.900 That's it.

01:50:04.580 Yeah, take that love on the road, brother.

01:50:06.340 But no, I feel you, man.

01:50:07.240 Thank you, bro.

01:50:07.980 Yeah.

01:50:08.480 Like, yeah, my first instinct is to kind of joke sometimes when things get serious or something.

01:50:12.660 And I used to be that way all the time.

01:50:14.260 Now I'm not that way.

01:50:15.260 You know, there's times where I can be in some of those spaces.

01:50:17.660 But, dude, I remember the first time I thought, man, I would like that.

01:50:22.000 Yeah.

01:50:22.500 It blew my mind.

01:50:25.300 But it's all because of just things I've learned in meetings over time.

01:50:29.320 you know, things that there's a different way, right?

01:50:36.260 Yeah, what would you say to somebody out there

01:50:37.980 who's thinking, I think this is me, right?

01:50:40.540 We're talking about porn addiction

01:50:42.000 or some of this intimacy stuff.

01:50:44.180 Yeah, what can they do to start getting some help?

01:50:46.960 Yeah, there are lots of great resources out there.

01:50:49.820 And we'll put Valor too.

01:50:50.900 Valor Recovery is a great resource out there.

01:50:53.760 Happy to talk to anybody listening here

01:50:55.860 to see if there's a way we can help you.

01:50:57.700 happy to refer you to other programs as well if you need a higher level of care right there are

01:51:02.800 great therapists out there there's great 12-step communities out there i think anybody that

01:51:08.260 listening to this the one thing i hope is that you have the courage to reach out and ask for help

01:51:15.300 amen bro that's it dude and i want to say this i want to say thank you there was like i have

01:51:20.140 received messages from so many guys that said i called and i talked to ste i like he had he like

01:51:26.740 you know a lot of places that's not the thing no i promise you early on i promise you i made a

01:51:33.060 promise to you that i was going to handle your people that call me a podcast myself personally

01:51:38.240 yeah and i did i appreciate that i didn't it was important and i you know it was uh it was

01:51:44.340 rewarding i learned so much about how these men are hurting and struggling and uh i also learned

01:51:52.540 so much on how important your voice is in these men's lives and so keep doing what you're doing

01:51:59.620 brother well thanks man yeah yeah we're just learning as we go you know and we don't have

01:52:06.340 to do it alone so I haven't had to do it alone with this show this show helped me not be alone

01:52:10.820 this show gave me something to do like you know there were times I probably would have been using

01:52:16.620 or doing things that I you know like there's times it hasn't saved me from that but there's

01:52:20.980 been so many times where it has you know where it gave me like some sense of like value or uh

01:52:27.600 purpose yeah even your voice matters man and sometimes not even my voice just listening

01:52:33.840 just being somebody like i learn that sometimes sometimes i still make mistakes on it but

01:52:38.400 let me just listen so other people can listen yeah beautiful you know and i don't mean that

01:52:44.660 in an egotistical way I just feel like it's just been like yeah I think when I was little I just

01:52:51.360 wanted to have a voice like I just like I wanted like yeah I was just I think when I was really

01:52:58.560 young I was in so much pain and just nobody could hear me you know and I didn't even know what was

01:53:05.260 wrong I just knew that it hurt and then yeah you get to like uh and that's all I wanted and God

01:53:13.060 help me have that you know and so it's been like it's not by accident you're here yeah we all have

01:53:20.760 this belief like some reason like going it should have looked differently it should be different

01:53:26.460 than it than it was and the truth is it all happened exactly the way it had to happen to

01:53:31.540 be here right now right i look back at my history and be like oh my god like that should have looked

01:53:37.060 with all the money that I wasted on drugs or crazy behaviors.

01:53:41.340 Well, if I had $1 more,

01:53:43.300 maybe I would have bought that line of Coke that had fentanyl.

01:53:46.360 If I had $1 more, perhaps I don't meet my wife,

01:53:51.360 have my son, or start Valor Recovery.

01:53:54.600 So who am I to go back and say,

01:53:56.320 that should have looked differently?

01:53:58.000 Everything I went through,

01:53:59.360 I had to go through to be here right now.

01:54:02.120 The only way to put purpose to your pain

01:54:04.980 is to have lived through that pain.

01:54:07.060 i think that's what you just shared thanks man yeah amen i'm glad you did bro i'm glad you stayed

01:54:15.300 the course yeah me too yeah i really am man i super am mike tyson said that same thing man when

01:54:21.000 i talked to him he just said man i wouldn't trade any of it as painful as parts of it were as

01:54:27.240 disgraceful as parts of it were you know i had to go through all of it to be the man i am today

01:54:33.760 yeah

01:54:34.220 it's kind of crazy

01:54:36.060 I mean it's

01:54:36.500 yeah I mean it's

01:54:37.280 unbelievable really

01:54:38.260 it's kind of crazy

01:54:38.900 yes

01:54:39.880 it's kind of crazy

01:54:40.840 you had to go through

01:54:42.280 everything you

01:54:43.080 I know a lot about your child

01:54:44.320 I know a lot about your life

01:54:45.480 right

01:54:46.120 it

01:54:46.360 it prepared you

01:54:48.240 for this moment

01:54:49.020 so it's crazy

01:54:51.360 to go back

01:54:51.760 and think

01:54:51.920 oh it should have

01:54:52.420 looked differently

01:54:52.980 that's a good point huh

01:54:54.000 wow

01:54:56.120 I think sometimes

01:54:56.780 it's tough to

01:54:57.440 yeah

01:54:57.820 you're so right

01:54:59.180 and sometimes

01:55:00.060 I still will

01:55:00.840 think that

01:55:02.120 i don't know if i still will think that but i still will suffer some of like there's still like

01:55:08.200 some old pain that flares up me too me too and people sometimes will be like you have to get

01:55:13.420 over you have to get rid of that and it's like you can but sometimes it's it's still a real thing

01:55:18.080 it's like just because you forgive and you move on doesn't mean that there's sometimes still not

01:55:22.100 some shit that hurts that's right and both things can be true you could be living a good life and

01:55:26.460 still be hurting at times from your past yeah it's not either or it's yes and yeah i agree with

01:55:32.280 you there's this idea in recovery that you know everything is rainbows and unicorns yeah that's

01:55:36.500 not life that's not life yeah right part of life is discomfort part of life is being uncomfortable

01:55:45.900 yeah and i wish they kind of would have told us that would you have joined if that was the

01:55:51.040 that's a good point though if you if they would have told it's such a here's the dude you're not

01:55:55.960 really going to feel that much better about yourself but come on in try this i'm not sure

01:55:59.880 that's a good selling point yeah dude they just show you your future and it's just you like you're

01:56:04.860 just crying behind a win dixie in your truck gee you gotta do a better way of selling me on this

01:56:10.020 recovery thing than that dude it's so true bro um we had some calls man these are calls we have a

01:56:17.660 Hotline here on 985-664-9503.

01:56:21.220 That's a hotline.

01:56:22.060 We're coming up on 10 years, I think, we've had this podcast.

01:56:24.420 When did this podcast start?

01:56:25.760 December.

01:56:27.120 Of 2016?

01:56:28.060 Yeah.

01:56:28.680 Wow.

01:56:29.160 Incredible.

01:56:30.040 That's crazy, man.

01:56:30.900 Incredible.

01:56:31.620 In your place in L.A.?

01:56:33.100 Yeah.

01:56:33.840 Incredible.

01:56:34.320 In my kitchen over there in Westwood.

01:56:35.660 In Westwood.

01:56:36.020 We put those curtains up.

01:56:37.300 Shout out to my ex-girlfriend Megan who would put up with me and when I would, you know,

01:56:43.620 it'd be like our one night of the week to spend together and I would, you know,

01:56:47.320 i would spend it doing this yeah and then like get in a bed like you know just you know she was

01:56:52.780 such a nice person i know she's the best yeah she's the best um let's play a couple calls that

01:57:00.420 have come in on the hotline and uh this this may sound weird because it's like we're like one of

01:57:06.960 those call-in shows where we're like experts we're not experts we don't know anything we're just two

01:57:11.780 guys who are surviving and doing our best steve's doing better than me um but let's play some of

01:57:17.980 those calls if we can please steve if you'll sit here sure thanks man hey theo this is siege from

01:57:26.820 new mexico and i just want to tell you man you've been a great help and i'm not gonna lie i'm kind

01:57:33.160 of drunk right now it's like 12 you know it's afternoon it's about 110 or whatever but i just

01:57:40.440 want to seek your advice on some shit uh you know i've been uh addicted to porn and masturbation my

01:57:50.700 entire life and that led me to being addicted to alcohol and a way to cope maybe i don't know but

01:57:57.680 uh you know i was texting these filipino ladies on some bullshit app and uh it turned into me

01:58:05.200 sending them money and they sent me nudes and then it turns out it was all scam obviously i should

01:58:09.340 have known that and i did know it before i even went into it but uh i don't even know if i'm

01:58:14.200 addicted i've been on a seven month seven month bender i think i've only missed four days

01:58:19.920 of uh drinking alcohol within the last seven months hey siege thanks for the call man um

01:58:26.280 yeah i just appreciate you sharing so honestly um steve what do you think is like can addictions

01:58:32.580 jump from one of the next what have you noticed about that that's kind of the thing that i'm

01:58:35.900 taken away from just listening to this yeah and thank you siege bro and just thanks for being

01:58:40.140 honest and um i think i'm gonna let steve kind of share some of his insights here i i you see that

01:58:45.340 with frequency just the relationship between alcohol and drugs and compulsive porn use and so

01:58:51.720 making recovery difficult you know that was the case for me but i had history of porn abuse but

01:58:56.800 also challenges with cocaine and alcohol and um hard really hard yeah because it'll be one you

01:59:03.460 one can cause the other chicken or the egg yeah chicken or the egg and how many guys kind of uh

01:59:08.500 because they're hung over turn to porn to try to feel better how many guys kind of make a bad

01:59:14.180 decision like he did reaching out giving money to this scam because he's under the influence of

01:59:19.580 alcohol or drugs it's just really hard and one of the things he highlighted these scams how often

01:59:25.880 we hear guys kind of being blackmailed because they got caught up reaching out to people there's

01:59:30.760 photos there's information it's dark stuff it's really dark stuff so sounds like this person can

01:59:37.280 really benefit you know getting help and here's the truth you know um sometimes it's hard to

01:59:43.700 address all this at once right and so maybe you pick one and maybe you start with alcohol

01:59:49.280 and say okay i'm having i'm having some issues with alcohol what can i do to get help i mean

01:59:56.040 i'm a huge fan as are you alcoholics anonymous great resource right there oftentimes you see

02:00:01.780 guys kind of pouring you spike in early recovery coming off alcohol because it's just a way to numb

02:00:07.880 oh yeah i've had issues where it's like i don't want to uh engage in certain behaviors so i'll

02:00:14.340 even masturbate to keep myself away from those behaviors it's like sometimes you're you know

02:00:19.720 you're cutting off a chicken to save the horse or whatever it's called i'd like to think of it

02:00:23.300 is harm reduction.

02:00:24.340 Yeah, harm reduction, that's what I'm saying.

02:00:25.300 Nothing wrong with that.

02:00:26.340 Yeah.

02:00:26.640 Nothing wrong with that, especially, you know,

02:00:28.180 oftentimes, even with sexual recovery,

02:00:30.160 sometimes you get sober off more detrimental behaviors first.

02:00:34.820 You know, if a guy has issues with a married guy

02:00:37.920 and you're dealing with things that might end the marriage,

02:00:40.700 infidelity, strip clubs, or a host of those behaviors,

02:00:43.880 you know, getting sober off those first

02:00:46.660 can be critically important.

02:00:48.440 And then over time, exploring your relationship

02:00:51.000 with porn and masturbation.

02:00:52.340 oftentimes point of masturbation can be a harm reduction tool not to engage in more harmful

02:00:57.920 behaviors yeah yeah and it's all a process and the good thing is even if you just go to aa bro

02:01:03.380 you go to a 12 step you start learning about this you start getting into the world of it

02:01:08.380 you know or if you go to like a sla zoom or if you call and talk to someone that works over at

02:01:14.300 valor it's like you know you just start to get into the world of realizing that there's some

02:01:18.920 hope for whatever's going on. Well, you're not alone. Yeah, that's fine, bro. You're not alone,

02:01:23.880 man. You're not alone. I mean, looking at two guys right here, you're not alone. You're not.

02:01:30.700 I know, man. You're not alone. And anything is possible. That's right. You know, anything is

02:01:36.700 still possible. But I'm going to quote one line that I hear you say, you say all the time,

02:01:40.800 nothing changes. If nothing changes. Nothing changes. Yeah. And guess what? I'll learn that

02:01:46.500 in the rooms. That's right. So whatever, do something. Don't do nothing. I can guarantee

02:01:52.020 the one way nothing will improve is doing nothing. Yeah, that's for sure. This ain't

02:01:56.280 rocket science. Oh, dude. I've walked into some meeting rooms and then 10 years later,

02:02:02.420 walked in again. That's right. Walked in and said, man, I think I need this, but I'm not sure.

02:02:07.440 10 years later, I'm back. Five years later, I'm back. You hear that all the time of guys like,

02:02:11.620 i knew 15 years ago there was something wrong but i didn't i didn't step all the way in it's okay

02:02:18.040 yeah it's okay here now it takes what it takes that's what they say too that's right it takes

02:02:22.420 what it takes um let's take another call thank you siege bro hey theo this is ashley

02:02:31.220 um i just wanted to call i guess and get some advice about my relationship my boyfriend

02:02:41.960 of almost two years now um struggles a lot with lust and not lost being able to control himself

02:02:53.340 when it comes to looking at porn or OnlyFans and things like that.

02:03:00.760 And I love him so much.

02:03:06.240 And I just wanted to get your advice on if you think men can change.

02:03:14.600 That's a nice, that's thoughtful.

02:03:16.180 I've heard a call.

02:03:16.980 What came up for you when you heard that?

02:03:18.660 uh just i thought it was nice how much she cares that she chose to call up first of all i believe

02:03:27.400 her sometimes you get a lot of calls you say you know i don't know this person's realistic or not

02:03:32.000 but i just for for to me i felt like she was genuine about it um and it was kind of and and

02:03:39.380 can people change she didn't really make it about her you know and she said about lust like she

02:03:44.280 understands the bigger picture of it so it's obvious that she's put some attention towards

02:03:48.100 it to maybe even look go search and look online see see some ideas or read up on it or something

02:03:53.740 because it's not just like hey this guy's watching porn it's like he has a problem with lust and it's

02:03:58.680 fascinating to think about lust what do you think like when she says that like what do you kind of

02:04:02.940 think steve like what is that about like well first thing i felt was she was sharing i felt

02:04:07.100 the first thing i felt was a little sadness oh yeah i did feel some sadness for her i know she's

02:04:11.600 going through a tough time tough and thank you ashley for calling sorry i should i should have

02:04:15.380 said that first thinking about her boyfriend uh the behaviors that she actually knows that he's

02:04:20.560 engaging in um are leading him down just a a dark path and and so first thing i was thinking about

02:04:28.100 is wow yeah um i hope she has the ability to take care of herself you know oftentimes uh you know

02:04:36.820 we we focus so much on trying to get the significant other some help which is important

02:04:41.920 directing him to really good resources out there if he wants to get better does he recognize this

02:04:47.040 as a problem and if he does you know get him some help there because guys can get better

02:04:52.500 and your relationship uh can thrive at some point in time in the future as he does the work and

02:04:59.480 hopefully you guys get to do the work together and grow closer together doesn't always work that way

02:05:03.160 but there are some countless amazing stories where couples kind of do the work and their

02:05:08.760 relationship gets better than it ever was before. That's the truth. That's the truth. Sometimes it

02:05:14.340 doesn't work out that way, but as she was sharing, I just hope she's got a place to go, a person to

02:05:20.880 talk to, perhaps a therapist that she can just share, find ways to take care of herself in the

02:05:26.420 process right now. And she stays on this journey. Yeah. And you know what? Sometimes it's like the

02:05:32.800 first time you have a real intimate conversation with somebody. I was at a meeting the other day

02:05:37.700 my friends and I were talking and they were saying after like dude we never even really talk

02:05:42.320 like this you know and I was like fuck hey like recovery gave me the I've been waiting my whole

02:05:50.600 life to talk about something that meant something and it gave me like the language too like think

02:05:55.780 about growing up where like the kind of man rules right men don't cry men are tough right if you're

02:06:03.680 sensitive you are a fill in the blank yeah and and so all of a sudden you see a ford festiva you

02:06:08.820 got to yell down the street like that yeah and so not a mustang and so it's not a mustang

02:06:14.900 and so you know so so many men right you know where do we learn how to be vulnerable where is

02:06:24.100 it a safe place to be vulnerable to be sensitive yeah the truth of matter is i'm a very sensitive

02:06:30.560 guy. A lot of men in recovery or dealing addiction are very sensitive men. And for so much of my life,

02:06:38.340 I tried to hide that part of me thinking it was a weakness. And I used drugs. I acted out in

02:06:46.200 certain ways to numb the pain of that sensitivity. I can tell you right now, my sensitivity today is

02:06:53.060 a superpower. Amen. Because that allows me to have empathy and to feel your experiences and pain

02:07:00.800 given where I've been with this. Facts, dude. Yeah, man. Facts, bro.

02:07:08.340 And you have the best stories too, dude. We didn't really tell any of them today.

02:07:11.340 Thank God, because you'd probably have to filter them out.

02:07:13.560 Yeah. The best stories, dude. Yeah. Yeah. And we can even, we can take this out,

02:07:17.940 but you have one story I remember about partying so hard in Miami that you and a friend

02:07:22.200 went instead of like you guys bought more drugs and more diapers out on the dance floor so you

02:07:28.140 didn't have to yeah well we bought dope it was obviously laced with a laxative and we had a

02:07:34.300 choice we had a choice to either throw the drugs out or make these kind of makeshift diapers and

02:07:41.360 keep the party going needless to say you know how that the rest of the story goes

02:07:46.000 yeah brother just so you gotta know steve is a real one the steve is and that's just that is the

02:07:55.040 tip of the iwo jima dude that's the tip of the iceberg steve's a real one um oh and what else

02:08:01.820 she was she was asking about something else though she was asking oh do you does she think

02:08:07.320 it's possible for him to get better right did you did we answer all that i i am such a believer

02:08:12.380 and the power of recovery yeah for sure yeah no doubt this this whole episode i think could help

02:08:17.880 maybe be beneficial to him if you want to share with him you can tell him like it's a just say

02:08:22.060 hey man theo i want you to listen to this um if you want i don't know if i know him or not or if

02:08:26.380 i've ever met him you know you meet a lot of people but um uh so yeah just say hey man hey

02:08:33.580 this is something your girlfriend wanted you to listen to i've had issues with it so if you feel

02:08:39.620 okay listening to it then check it out so you can send him that little clip right there and that can

02:08:45.640 go along with this episode if you want um and then oh lust she talked about lust lust kind of gets

02:08:54.440 hijacked or something doesn't it we don't talk about lust too much do we yeah you know does it

02:08:59.920 matter is it a word it's just a word but i'll tell you what's what it's interesting how many guys

02:09:05.420 come to me like, Steve, you don't understand. I think I'm just so horny. Maybe, but what's

02:09:13.080 probably closer to the truth is you're actually just really uncomfortable and you've sexualized

02:09:19.060 that discomfort. Oh yeah. If every time you get uncomfortable, you end up jerking off

02:09:22.640 looking at pornography. Then when you get uncomfortable, you're like, oh, I'm horny.

02:09:25.860 It's like, no, you're not. You connect the two in your brain. And so, you know, and what

02:09:30.800 happens when guys get into recovery and get some time you know they stabilize and they realize

02:09:36.180 they're not as horny as they think yeah because you're no longer using as a tool to deal with

02:09:42.260 your emotions right dude they hijacked us bro the devil hijacked a lot of us bro you got to give

02:09:51.340 props to the devil in a weird way because check on this one they you know yeah they win this round

02:09:57.420 They won this round.

02:09:58.580 They won this round.

02:09:59.960 They won this round.

02:10:01.580 Hey, what's going on, Theo?

02:10:03.300 My name is Donald.

02:10:05.940 So I have a situation.

02:10:07.600 I have a girlfriend.

02:10:08.880 She's a long-distance type shit.

02:10:11.940 We've been together for three years.

02:10:14.580 But for the first year and a half, I would just, you know,

02:10:19.700 lay that semen around type shit.

02:10:22.920 Yeah, I wasn't a big infidel.

02:10:25.220 Just cheat on her.

02:10:26.300 I told her a couple times

02:10:29.400 you know

02:10:30.120 that made me feel a bit proud of myself

02:10:33.260 but

02:10:33.540 but yeah lately you know

02:10:37.200 it's been a while and I've just

02:10:39.260 been jerking off to be honest

02:10:40.860 just been jerking off a couple times

02:10:45.300 a day honestly

02:10:46.380 so

02:10:48.780 not really sure what your

02:10:51.320 thoughts are on that I mean it's better

02:10:53.380 than cheating but you know

02:10:55.060 I'm struggling out here.

02:11:00.420 Yeah, we're watching mom porn.

02:11:02.720 That thing, yeah.

02:11:04.400 Okay.

02:11:05.940 Yeah, dude.

02:11:06.920 I think we've kind of...

02:11:07.920 We've talked about some of this.

02:11:08.700 Thanks for calling, bro.

02:11:09.760 Donovan or Jonathan?

02:11:12.060 Donald.

02:11:12.900 Donald.

02:11:13.560 Okay, thanks for calling Donald.

02:11:14.780 I didn't know people saw the name Donald,

02:11:16.000 but I'm glad they do.

02:11:18.100 I'm glad they do, bro.

02:11:19.280 And bring it back.

02:11:20.240 B-Y-O-D, bro.

02:11:21.720 What I'm saying is this, dude, is...

02:11:25.060 yeah sorry this whole this this whole segment to me just it feels like it's very foreign it feels

02:11:29.800 like here's the energy i don't like and this isn't the real energy of it that we know something you

02:11:35.120 don't right like we're just two guys who fucking trying our best here um but we have shown up a

02:11:42.640 lot to places to try our best so i'll give us a lot of credit with that and steve has done a great

02:11:48.060 job of like transforming his whole life um yeah dude i just know if you do that it just weakens

02:11:54.640 of spirit so something's uncomfortable in you something's uncomfortable in your spirit right

02:12:00.140 and you're only going to get clues from it probably if you stop masturbating and stuff you'll start to

02:12:05.440 get some clues but the tough part is and this has been tough for me the clues get scary and sometimes

02:12:10.800 it's it's hard to handle you don't know something's ah you know sometimes you just want to scream and

02:12:16.880 sometimes it's like primal stuff you don't know what's going on and so you just you sedate yourself

02:12:21.700 with like pornography or masturbations

02:12:23.840 to keep yourself at bay.

02:12:26.000 But it can be different, right, Steve?

02:12:29.440 Yeah, what I took from the call

02:12:31.100 was this kind of idea like,

02:12:33.820 you can't really do this alone.

02:12:36.600 Yeah, because this dude sounds like

02:12:38.240 he's pretty capable of getting stuff done.

02:12:39.760 That's right.

02:12:40.300 He's insightful, he's honest,

02:12:42.700 but he's running the show.

02:12:44.280 Right.

02:12:44.720 And so, you know,

02:12:46.620 I would strongly suggest to get some help.

02:12:49.880 you know willpower will only get you so far yeah right getting some time to understand what's

02:12:56.760 driving these behaviors get to the root cause of some of these challenges get some professional

02:13:02.040 help great resources get involved in the community a men's group where you can kind of have some a

02:13:07.560 band of brothers where you can kind of run stuff by and talk through these things tough to do this

02:13:12.740 by yourself yeah what happens is it'll be 10 years from now and you'll still be struggling with this

02:13:18.680 stuff and you'll just lose time that's bro that is the truest thing if you relate to some of this

02:13:25.500 stuff if you relate to it at a pretty strong level where you like i think i had it it does not

02:13:33.620 just go away no i cannot there's nothing that's been that's the most honest thing i could ever

02:13:41.360 tell you in my whole life it does not just go when i started this process i had a head of hair like

02:13:45.740 you and i look at this thing right now yeah you just lose time you lose hair i mean you look great

02:13:51.280 man and bro you've done a great job today too dude yeah thank you it's been a pleasure being here

02:13:55.760 thank you bro thank you so much just for being here for talking about this man some stuff it's

02:14:00.860 like i don't know i just have been so much more comfortable than i thought it would be

02:14:04.760 and i don't even know why i didn't think it would be you know um all right let's see let's have one

02:14:09.100 more call that came in please hey theo this is uh cody from florida and uh i i think you're

02:14:21.720 really big on porn addictions and that's kind of a weird topic to get personal about if you know

02:14:28.820 what i mean very awkward topic but i feel like i feel like i just lost the love of my life because

02:14:38.860 of it i i can't control myself i i can't i feel like this is my generation because i'm i'm 19 man

02:14:50.820 i'm i just i feel like it's so normalized it's so routine it's so normal for me to feel normalized

02:15:02.180 about doing this shit and

02:15:03.920 I just lost

02:15:06.380 the best thing

02:15:08.280 that's ever happened to me she broke up with me

02:15:10.360 man this is a fucking this is a Gooner National

02:15:12.240 Anthem right here I can't believe

02:15:14.340 it bro can't stop

02:15:16.360 thinking about it I can't stop dreaming

02:15:18.360 about it I can't

02:15:19.460 get past the memories that we

02:15:22.340 had because of my actions

02:15:24.360 my actions

02:15:26.060 my actions made me lose it

02:15:28.400 bro and I just I just wanted

02:15:30.420 to see if I can get some advice from you.

02:15:34.460 Yeah, dude, thanks for calling in about it, bro.

02:15:36.760 And yeah, sorry, I was kind of joking around, dude,

02:15:39.020 but it's real.

02:15:41.240 And it's, and if you really have this porn addiction,

02:15:45.180 if you've related to it enough,

02:15:46.420 you kind of call, you heard it and thought about it

02:15:48.300 and called, then it must have some relative,

02:15:51.020 there must be something inside of you

02:15:52.620 that's connecting with it, right?

02:15:53.980 If you've even just heard me talk about it before,

02:15:55.800 because today's the most we ever even talked about it ever.

02:15:58.020 so if you're picking up on something from the from before uh it it won't get better you have

02:16:06.760 to you have you got to help it get better right so you got to show up for it and help it get

02:16:09.820 better and it will get better and as far as yeah you might have lost your girl this situation for

02:16:14.720 now but you i i believe you get second chances and i believe that you won't miss out on the next

02:16:23.060 good one and you will be so grateful down the line that uh you started to solve the solve some

02:16:29.920 of the issues uh now then waited that's what i think man from my own experience steve what do

02:16:38.360 you what do you think i think um everywhere i go there i am meaning that um you know that's just

02:16:49.180 the reality. If I could date that woman without me, it'd probably be a great experience. But I

02:16:54.020 bring me to that relationship. So I think pain is the cornerstone of spiritual growth. And what

02:16:59.900 happened, happened. Sounds like awful, tragic, horrible. But I'll tell you what, what would be

02:17:04.540 really tragic if you didn't use this moment in time to get the help you need. Leverage the pain

02:17:11.340 you're in right now to get the help you need. Really important, right? The gift of desperation.

02:17:19.180 Don't let this go by and pass.

02:17:21.940 Like, oh, maybe it wasn't that bad.

02:17:24.960 Use the pain you're in as leverage to get help.

02:17:28.440 Amen.

02:17:29.200 That's the truth, bro.

02:17:30.220 That's, dude, that's cool, dude.

02:17:31.940 Yeah.

02:17:32.800 Yeah, bro.

02:17:33.460 The gift of desperation.

02:17:35.360 We both lived it.

02:17:37.760 But yeah, thanks Cody for calling in.

02:17:39.840 Did we get those three guys, guys, by chance?

02:17:43.700 If we have an accurate shot of them.

02:17:45.220 Here we go right here.

02:17:45.960 These are the ethical capital partners.

02:17:49.180 This couple of guys right here, there's the managing partner, Fadi Mansour, Rocco Meliambro, and he's definitely been gooning.

02:18:01.980 And Solomon Friedman had a feeling he was involved.

02:18:05.840 There he is right now.

02:18:06.940 He's the partner VP compliance.

02:18:08.980 I love how compliance is part of it.

02:18:11.940 What do you do working at a porn company for compliance?

02:18:15.960 I'm curious.

02:18:17.200 I don't know, dude.

02:18:19.180 I do not know.

02:18:21.360 So they're, that's them right there.

02:18:23.580 Ethical Capital Partners.

02:18:26.020 So we want to thank those guys for being, basically, they are,

02:18:34.300 those are your porn Sackler family right there.

02:18:37.340 That's what I call them.

02:18:39.440 That's just my thoughts.

02:18:40.380 Those are the Sacklers of pornography right there.

02:18:42.520 Those are good people.

02:18:43.860 Fadi Mansour, Rocco Meliambro, and Solomon Friedman.

02:18:46.900 um thank you guys for your service uh steve walt man thank you for your service dude today

02:18:54.020 is a service call that's what they say in recovery rooms if like you you know you make a service call

02:18:59.500 on people you do something uh to be helpful to the group or to someone so what a treat to be here

02:19:06.540 thank you dude what a long journey huh yeah it's only just started wow that's the craziest part

02:19:11.720 and that's the best attitude to have congratulations man on starting a family on making something real

02:19:17.980 out of something that was just like do you look back sometimes and you're like i cannot even

02:19:22.540 believe it i really do i just talked to my wife last night in anticipation of this and i was like

02:19:30.780 i can't believe i'm here really unfathomable and how'd i get here just one day at a time

02:19:38.720 one step at a time taking better making better decisions yeah anybody can do it huh 100 you

02:19:46.700 believe that i really do yeah it doesn't matter if you have money or don't money if you're in a

02:19:50.900 wheelchair if you can't see far it doesn't matter no anybody can do it as long as you don't quit

02:19:56.160 before the miracle happens amen steve holbro i love you bro thank you for being a part of my

02:20:02.400 life bro thank you for letting me be a part of your life um you showed up for my comedy show

02:20:06.640 when I came out to Bend, Oregon, we had so much fun.

02:20:08.540 That was awesome.

02:20:09.100 That was cool, dude.

02:20:10.120 That was awesome.

02:20:10.780 And you've just been such a light over the years, dude.

02:20:13.040 We know so many friends.

02:20:14.700 Most of like the most important people in my life,

02:20:17.280 you know them.

02:20:19.140 That's right.

02:20:20.020 Best friends in the world that have friends in recovery.

02:20:22.160 Oh, dude, nothing, nothing better.

02:20:24.840 No, amazing human beings, crazy as can be.

02:20:28.060 They could be decades sober, off their rockers,

02:20:31.200 incredible and beautiful.

02:20:32.420 Yeah.

02:20:32.820 Oh, the good times do not end, bro.

02:20:37.260 No, they don't.

02:20:38.180 You finally, you always want to know who's got the best story in the room, dude.

02:20:41.300 You finally get to meet all of those people.

02:20:43.820 That's right.

02:20:44.540 That's right.

02:20:45.080 It's good stuff.

02:20:45.960 Steve, Valor Recovery, you guys can check out his program.

02:20:49.240 If anything, you feel like you can relate to.

02:20:51.920 Steve, I love you, bro.

02:20:52.840 Thank you, bro.

02:20:53.420 Thank you.

02:20:53.820 Now I'm just floating on the breeze, and I feel I'm falling like these leaves I must be.

02:21:00.680 Cornerstone

02:21:02.900 Oh, but when I reach that ground

02:21:07.460 I'll share this peace of mind I found

02:21:10.280 I can feel it in my bones

02:21:13.780 But it's gonna tell you

02:21:16.540 When you travel well, your KLM Royal Dutch Airlines ticket

02:21:23.940 takes you to more than just your destination.

02:21:26.900 It takes you to front row views,

02:21:28.940 voices lost in the music

02:21:31.180 and new shared memories

02:21:32.900 and when the last song fades

02:21:35.720 the KLM Royal Dutch Airlines crew

02:21:40.020 is here to ensure your journey home

02:21:42.300 hits all the right notes

02:21:43.760 KLM Royal Dutch Airlines

02:21:47.280 when you travel, travel well

This Past Weekend with Theo Von - June 19, 2026

#663 - Porn Recovery Coach Steven Wolt

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