This Past Weekend with Theo Von

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00:01:16.920 We've got some new tour dates to announce.

00:01:19.680 We've added a show in Wichita, October 11th.

00:01:24.340 The October 12th show is sold out.

00:01:26.980 We will now be there Tuesday night, October 11th, Wichita, Kansas at the Orpheum Theater.

00:01:33.080 October 13th in Omaha, Nebraska at the Holland Performing Arts Center.

00:01:39.060 And October 14th, Denver, Colorado, Paramount Theater.

00:01:43.400 We have two shows that night.

00:01:45.460 We've added a late show.

00:01:47.420 Get your tickets at TheoVaughn.com slash T-O-U-R.

00:01:52.980 We want you to go through that link.

00:01:54.900 That way you're getting accurately priced.

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00:02:02.600 So we look forward to seeing you at the Return of the Rat Tour.

00:02:06.720 I'll be there, baby.

00:02:08.000 Gang.

00:02:08.860 I want to let you know that we have new Gang Gang merch.

00:02:13.260 It's out there, baby.

00:02:14.220 Get those hitters.

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00:02:37.480 Today's guest is a man of science.

00:02:40.580 He has a doctorate in philosophy from UCLA and he's most known for his work in cryonics.

00:02:48.520 And if you're wondering what cryonics is, well, it's basically that he freezes your body

00:02:54.780 when you die in hopes that they will be able to bring you back to life in the future.

00:03:00.940 It's a fascinating world to learn about.

00:03:03.060 I think you're going to love it.

00:03:04.800 I did.

00:03:05.700 We had a great conversation about life and death and the afterlife.

00:03:10.440 Today's guest is Dr. Max Moore.

00:03:12.940 Dr. Max Moore.

00:03:42.500 Do I call you a doctor?

00:03:44.240 Is that?

00:03:45.060 Oh, I insist.

00:03:46.000 No, no, no.

00:03:46.700 Call me Max.

00:03:47.460 Okay.

00:03:47.800 Okay.

00:03:49.840 So, yeah, you were saying you didn't sleep that good last night.

00:03:53.440 Yeah.

00:03:53.780 I don't know what happened.

00:03:54.640 It was, I get problems with congestion and I've got psychic nerve damage.

00:03:59.140 So sometimes my foot is numb.

00:04:00.180 I had both of those last night and I took a sleepy pill, which shouldn't last more than

00:04:04.520 four hours.

00:04:04.980 And that didn't work after an hour and a half.

00:04:06.340 I took another one and that was probably a mistake.

00:04:09.200 Oh, yeah.

00:04:09.740 That's always when you get that double up, you know?

00:04:11.880 Yeah.

00:04:11.900 But it shouldn't have kept me asleep at that time.

00:04:13.760 So I was going to get up at 730, get some work done.

00:04:16.000 And then I get the call.

00:04:17.060 It's 10 o'clock and I go, oh my God.

00:04:19.160 So I wish I could have around about 15 minutes or so, 20 minutes.

00:04:22.940 Well, we're glad you made it in, man.

00:04:24.320 It's interesting that you didn't get much sleep, but that you're kind of like the eternal

00:04:28.260 sleep guy, you know?

00:04:30.160 Like, um, I just want to preface for our audience.

00:04:33.220 So people always like talk, you always hear about like living forever.

00:04:36.820 People are always like, I'm going to live, you know, I'd love to, how do we, you know?

00:04:40.180 And people are always like, well, you can get frozen, you know, you know, you can get

00:04:43.800 frozen.

00:04:44.260 Like, um, you know, they always say different people that are frozen and like Kirby Puckett's

00:04:48.940 frozen or, um, you know, Walt Disney's fro, you know, there's that company.

00:04:53.120 Walt Disney always comes up, you know, right.

00:04:54.920 You can hear, you can always hear that, right?

00:04:56.480 People always hear that just like in like, uh, just human interaction, societal chatter,

00:05:01.380 but that's actually what you do.

00:05:04.540 That's your world.

00:05:05.760 That's what I do.

00:05:06.360 I will have to come back to a couple of things you mentioned about Walt Disney, about freezing.

00:05:09.520 Okay.

00:05:09.900 Uh, some of those stuff, but yeah, that's what we do.

00:05:12.940 Cryonics, right?

00:05:13.580 Cryonics.

00:05:13.980 Not to be confused with cryogenics.

00:05:15.760 Okay.

00:05:16.040 So let's start there.

00:05:16.940 Let's start there.

00:05:17.760 So what is cryonics?

00:05:19.000 So we can get it.

00:05:19.760 Uh, cryonics is essentially the preservation of people at the point of legal death, not

00:05:25.380 the same as biological death.

00:05:26.980 Uh, and to very simplify the process that we can go into, it's the preservation of people

00:05:31.100 at the point of legal death at extremely cold temperatures, minus 320 Fahrenheit, uh, in

00:05:36.040 the hopes that in the future, and we're talking about decades to a century or so in the future,

00:05:40.860 we may have the technology to fix whatever killed you in today's sense, uh, revive you and

00:05:45.600 bring you back so you can carry on living at the most simple.

00:05:48.380 Wow.

00:05:49.520 Wow.

00:05:50.600 Bo, so yeah, you're the guy that like, yeah, I want to have an IOU from, I feel like, you

00:05:55.460 know?

00:05:55.980 Um, and so what is cryogenics then?

00:05:58.140 What's the other side of that?

00:05:59.160 And there's some water too, if you need it.

00:06:00.460 Yeah, there's a bunch of cryo terms.

00:06:01.820 So cryogenics is simply the engineering of low temperatures.

00:06:05.180 Okay.

00:06:05.340 So lots of people use cryogenics, you know, uh, chip companies use liquid nitrogen to cool

00:06:09.080 at their labs.

00:06:09.660 That's cryogenics.

00:06:10.840 Uh, you know, freezes that go below pretty cold temperatures, colder than once we have at home,

00:06:14.540 that's cryogenics.

00:06:15.260 Uh, the editor of the cryogenics magazine wrote an editorial a couple of years ago complaining

00:06:19.360 that people keep calling cryonics cryogenics because they're different things.

00:06:22.600 Ah, I see.

00:06:23.440 This was a cryobiology, which is simply the study of the effects of very low temperatures

00:06:27.960 on living things.

00:06:28.820 Uh, and then there's cryopreservation.

00:06:31.600 So there's a lot of these cryo words.

00:06:33.080 Okay.

00:06:33.160 A lot of cryo.

00:06:33.860 Yeah.

00:06:34.260 So cryopreservation, though, this is an important one.

00:06:36.540 Cryopreservation is the application of very cold temperatures to living things.

00:06:40.000 Now this is important because if you think about it, there are millions of people walking

00:06:43.160 around today who are cryopreserved.

00:06:45.020 They were just embryos at the time.

00:06:46.640 In vitro fertilization, you take an embryo, you cryopreserve it, right?

00:06:49.440 You keep it at liquid nitrogen temperature.

00:06:51.320 Wow.

00:06:52.140 So there's a lot of those freezer burn babies just running around on the planet.

00:06:55.540 There's a lot of...

00:06:56.260 There's no freezer burn, but yeah, they were cryopreserved.

00:06:59.020 Some people have corneas or heart valves or skin that was cryopreserved.

00:07:02.820 So that's something we can cryopreserve and we can bring that back today, unlike human

00:07:06.880 beings as a whole, which is a more complicated issue.

00:07:09.860 Wow.

00:07:10.080 So, but the world that you facilitate basically or have facilitated is in cryonics.

00:07:17.400 Right.

00:07:17.540 And you guys are the company that when someone, I guess, registers with your company, they

00:07:25.920 want to be, they want to take that long shot.

00:07:28.480 They're playing the long game.

00:07:29.820 They want to be frozen.

00:07:31.160 Yeah.

00:07:31.360 The basic idea is that someone, in almost all cases, someone makes these arrangements way

00:07:35.460 in advance, years or decades in advance.

00:07:37.400 We very rarely take people who call us up at the last minute because we don't want to

00:07:41.160 be seen as taking advantage of people, for one thing, when you're not thinking straight

00:07:43.840 at the end of your life.

00:07:44.700 Plus, it's actually legally risky because maybe the relatives are against the idea.

00:07:49.040 So people generally send out well in advance and fill out all the contracts and make sure

00:07:52.420 they understand what they're doing.

00:07:53.920 They have to make the right financial arrangements because obviously this is something that costs

00:07:56.840 money.

00:07:57.140 And if we go through this whole thing and don't get paid, it's going to threaten the organization.

00:08:00.880 Right.

00:08:01.300 So all that has to be put in place.

00:08:03.100 And then at the point when your body gives out, I don't want to call die because that's

00:08:06.700 not really what's happening.

00:08:08.440 We'll get into that as to are you actually dead or not?

00:08:10.400 Because I don't think you are.

00:08:11.160 But your body gives out, your heart fails, whatever, something critical goes.

00:08:15.180 In an ideal situation, we're right there at the bedside and we can begin within seconds

00:08:19.400 of legal death being pronounced.

00:08:21.400 And do you have to wait for someone to be there?

00:08:23.340 Like does a coroner have to show up or like at least a, you know, kind of smart policeman

00:08:27.220 or something to say, hey, yeah, you guys are good to get in there.

00:08:30.200 They're dead.

00:08:30.900 Generally, no.

00:08:32.380 We hate those cases when you have coroners or medical examers.

00:08:36.020 In most cases, you just wait for a doctor to declare legal death.

00:08:39.800 I think in some cases it can be a special kind of nurse, but legal death has to be declared.

00:08:43.580 And it's very important to understand how that's different from other things.

00:08:46.460 But, you know, coroners or medical examers, that's a disaster when they get involved because

00:08:49.780 you have to wait for them to arrive, which could be an hour or more.

00:08:52.140 And they're slow.

00:08:53.020 I mean, they're goddling.

00:08:54.000 They take their time.

00:08:54.800 Yeah.

00:08:55.140 And they have, they're like gods.

00:08:56.540 They have complete power.

00:08:57.460 It doesn't matter if you have a religious objection.

00:08:59.160 They can do it anyway, and they often will.

00:09:01.460 And that can be a disaster.

00:09:02.600 That can be as bad as taking the brain out of your head, slicing it into pieces, and

00:09:06.660 then shoving it back into your stomach, which is as nasty as it sounds.

00:09:09.520 It doesn't have to be that bad.

00:09:11.260 We've had a lot of success in, I mean, basically, they will autopsy you if you're driving a car

00:09:15.080 and you have an accident.

00:09:15.600 They're going to autopsy you.

00:09:16.340 Okay.

00:09:16.800 I'll slow it down a little bit for me so I can pay.

00:09:19.000 Yeah.

00:09:19.300 I am.

00:09:20.060 Yeah.

00:09:20.520 I'm.

00:09:21.420 So you're.

00:09:22.040 Okay.

00:09:22.180 So you have, so the corners and those kind of guys can be a hindrance.

00:09:26.420 It can be a holdup.

00:09:27.340 Yeah.

00:09:27.460 So you want to be already involved with the presumed patient that you're going to freeze.

00:09:31.780 You want to be already involved with them.

00:09:33.620 And hopefully there's like a medical part there, you know, at the end of their life with a

00:09:38.320 doctor or they're in hospice or something.

00:09:39.820 They should be in a hospital or hospice.

00:09:40.860 Yeah.

00:09:40.920 Someone can.

00:09:42.340 Someone can pronounce.

00:09:43.440 Pronounce them legally dead.

00:09:44.660 And then you guys can be there.

00:09:46.360 Right.

00:09:46.760 And right then you guys start.

00:09:49.580 What do you do?

00:09:50.360 Like, right, like, do you give them a couple minutes to kind of like be like with the Lord

00:09:54.840 or whatever?

00:09:55.300 Do you just get right in there?

00:09:56.900 We get right in there.

00:09:57.980 Wow.

00:09:58.460 Ideally.

00:09:58.880 I mean, we're not always able to get there before little death is pronounced.

00:10:01.700 We want to get there as quick as we can.

00:10:03.260 It's not essential, but it's certainly better.

00:10:04.900 So ideally we're at the bedside.

00:10:06.500 The doctor says, I declare you legally dead.

00:10:08.720 Okay.

00:10:09.240 And let's just go into that for a second before we go on to the procedure, because it's really

00:10:12.000 important.

00:10:12.920 When they say, I declare you legally dead, what does that mean exactly?

00:10:16.580 Does it mean your whole body's dead?

00:10:18.200 All your cells are dead?

00:10:19.020 No, it can't mean that because people donate their organs all the time.

00:10:22.800 Right.

00:10:22.960 So all these things are still alive.

00:10:24.740 Just something critical has failed.

00:10:26.560 And in fact, many times when you're declared legally dead, they could actually resuscitate

00:10:30.020 you.

00:10:30.740 That's why people have DNR, do not resuscitate orders, because they're saying, please don't

00:10:34.680 resuscitate me because I'm just going to be miserable and horrible for a couple of hours

00:10:37.360 and then fail again.

00:10:38.320 Right.

00:10:39.120 Wow.

00:10:39.620 So it's very important to understand that legal death is not the same as everything suddenly

00:10:43.000 dying.

00:10:43.400 That doesn't happen.

00:10:44.100 I see.

00:10:44.440 So it just has to be legally dead.

00:10:46.300 And then there's still a lot of life going on inside of people.

00:10:49.220 Yeah.

00:10:49.960 And that's when you guys get in.

00:10:51.220 That's when we get in there.

00:10:51.920 And what we do, I'll try and keep it relatively simple because it's a complex procedure.

00:10:55.960 Basically, we'll take the patient, move them from the hospital bed or the hospice bed

00:10:59.280 into an ice bath.

00:11:00.640 We'll cover them with ice, add some water.

00:11:02.520 We have a device that circulates that icy slurry around them to accelerate the cooling process.

00:11:06.600 And what temperature is that that you put them in?

00:11:08.600 Well, it's just ice water.

00:11:09.860 So we don't want to go below freezing at this point because that would damage the cells.

00:11:13.060 We haven't protected them yet.

00:11:14.760 So we're going to put icy water that starts circulating.

00:11:17.260 We'll put on a mechanical CPR device to start bumping on their chest and a respirator to take

00:11:21.880 over breathing.

00:11:22.660 So we're actually restarting circulation and respiration.

00:11:25.820 And you might say, well, why are you doing that?

00:11:27.060 This person's dead.

00:11:27.920 Well, as we've said, they're not really dead in any interesting sense.

00:11:31.160 And we have to preserve the viability of the tissues.

00:11:33.700 Just like someone donating an organ or a kidney, we want to keep it viable.

00:11:36.860 There you have to keep it viable for several hours while you send it across country.

00:11:40.840 Yeah.

00:11:40.860 When I was young, my sister got a liver transplant when I was younger, when we were kids.

00:11:46.240 And she, yeah, I guess they had to move the organ pretty quick and then get it in her.

00:11:52.300 Yeah.

00:11:52.500 They don't last that long.

00:11:53.760 Anyway.

00:11:54.080 Yeah.

00:11:54.380 Sorry.

00:11:54.760 I don't know why I went on that tangent.

00:11:56.100 But OK.

00:11:56.960 So you have the body now.

00:11:58.580 When you're when you.

00:11:59.500 Well, we're just a bit more to go.

00:12:01.140 But when you apply that, do they ever come back to life in that moment?

00:12:04.640 No.

00:12:04.860 No.

00:12:05.060 And that's what the next thing I'm going to get to.

00:12:06.600 Sorry.

00:12:07.400 Sorry.

00:12:08.380 Don't dump the gun yet.

00:12:10.140 No, that's a very important point, though, because that could happen.

00:12:12.640 You're quite right to think about it.

00:12:13.720 That is possible theoretically.

00:12:15.360 Again, because just because they call you legally dead doesn't mean everything is stopped.

00:12:18.320 Right.

00:12:18.800 So once we do this, once we do the cooling, we're also applying various medications.

00:12:23.020 We have a series of 10 or 12 medications, the first of which is propofol.

00:12:26.920 Now, I used to have to explain what propofol is.

00:12:28.500 But since Michael Jackson, most people have heard.

00:12:30.440 Yeah.

00:12:30.760 That's his.

00:12:31.260 Yeah.

00:12:31.600 That's that party.

00:12:32.260 He did a little too much of it.

00:12:33.840 Yeah.

00:12:34.020 He did a lot, I guess.

00:12:35.480 There's two reasons for that.

00:12:36.660 First of all.

00:12:37.080 Let's move this mic over a little bit on you, sorry.

00:12:39.320 How is that?

00:12:39.800 Just give it this way a little.

00:12:41.360 Yeah.

00:12:41.640 There you go.

00:12:42.120 Okay.

00:12:42.640 Okay.

00:12:43.220 There's two reasons.

00:12:43.740 Yeah.

00:12:44.100 Yeah.

00:12:44.260 Michael Jackson did a lot.

00:12:45.140 He definitely, yeah.

00:12:47.340 If he was still alive, he would be selling the drug.

00:12:50.020 That's right.

00:12:50.460 You know?

00:12:51.240 The reason for the propofol is twofold.

00:12:53.780 First of all, it slows down brain metabolism.

00:12:56.420 And that's very important because the faster your metabolism is running, the faster things

00:12:59.780 are going to fall apart.

00:13:00.640 So we want to slow that down.

00:13:01.860 Um, the other thing is it will prevent any return to consciousness, which is possible.

00:13:07.720 As we've said, it's unlikely, but, uh, it wouldn't necessarily be a full return to conscious

00:13:11.460 like, Hey, what's going on guys.

00:13:12.820 Yeah.

00:13:13.180 It could just be some kind of sense of, Oh, I feel really cold and unpleasant.

00:13:16.700 So we want to prevent that completely.

00:13:18.100 So that's why we give that as the first medication.

00:13:20.700 Wow.

00:13:21.060 So that's the one that's going to cut off any chance of a real, somebody popping back

00:13:25.920 to life.

00:13:27.300 But at that point they've been declared legally dead.

00:13:29.840 So they're, so societally you're cleared and then they've already chosen that they want

00:13:35.340 to be frozen.

00:13:36.540 So they've dialed in.

00:13:38.620 So then at that point, once you get the propofol and it slows the brain metabolism,

00:13:43.660 is that the same as like a metabolism you have in your stomach and stuff?

00:13:46.260 Yeah.

00:13:46.460 It's just, it's just biological metabolism in the brain.

00:13:48.540 So we're actually slowing everything down, but the most important part for us is the

00:13:51.740 brain.

00:13:52.000 Cause that's the most important thing.

00:13:53.180 And we should talk more about that because some people just want to preserve the brains

00:13:56.000 and we can understand.

00:13:56.900 Yeah.

00:13:57.060 I've heard that, man.

00:13:58.000 Look, these are the rumors.

00:13:59.280 These are the things people are saying.

00:14:00.600 And that's why I'm glad I'm sitting here, um, with the savant of afterlife, man.

00:14:05.620 Um, okay, cool.

00:14:06.520 So we got the body, you got the propofol in there.

00:14:10.000 We've still got a bunch of more things to put in there.

00:14:11.440 We're going to put in, again, I won't go into all the details of it, but various other

00:14:14.480 drugs to, uh, stop the blood from clotting, for instance, to maintain blood pressure.

00:14:18.120 Like an antifreeze or something?

00:14:19.560 Not yet.

00:14:20.300 No.

00:14:20.440 Okay.

00:14:20.540 That's antifreeze, right?

00:14:21.400 So anticoagulant?

00:14:23.220 Anticoagulant.

00:14:23.620 Okay.

00:14:23.940 Exactly.

00:14:24.340 Yeah.

00:14:24.440 The antifreeze stuff will come later.

00:14:25.840 Oh, dang.

00:14:26.320 Um, so there's a bunch of things we put in based on the research we do to, again, at this stage,

00:14:30.280 people in the hospital go, oh, and I, I get what you're doing.

00:14:32.540 This looks very much like donating organs.

00:14:34.060 You're trying to keep them as alive as possible while you transport them somewhere else.

00:14:37.260 So this part of it makes perfect sense to people in hospitals.

00:14:39.760 Okay.

00:14:40.140 And at this point, are you, and I, you had a video you pulled up, Zach.

00:14:43.420 Is that?

00:14:44.360 Yeah.

00:14:44.680 We actually, uh, we found a video on the Alcor website kind of talking, you know, going through

00:14:48.920 this process.

00:14:49.800 If you.

00:14:50.340 Does this help us at all, Max?

00:14:52.400 Yeah.

00:14:52.800 It's probably one of my.

00:14:53.820 Max, if you want to maybe walk us through this.

00:14:55.780 Sure.

00:14:56.660 I think this is one of the videos I did about 10 years or so ago.

00:15:00.160 This is some generic pictures of people in hospitals.

00:15:03.140 So yeah, that's the.

00:15:03.700 John Elway.

00:15:04.200 There you can see, you know, you've got a respirator, you've got artificial.

00:15:06.840 Oh, okay.

00:15:07.220 They're moving the patient into an ice bath here.

00:15:09.200 Okay.

00:15:09.440 This is what you just told us about?

00:15:10.880 Yeah.

00:15:11.640 Okay.

00:15:11.920 So they added the bed into the ice bath.

00:15:14.620 This is a little different than what we do now, but it's basically the process.

00:15:17.160 It's going to cover the patient in ice.

00:15:20.080 In the ice bath we use today, we actually circulate the icy water, which is more efficient

00:15:23.960 than just packing the patient in ice like that.

00:15:26.820 Yeah.

00:15:27.560 Got it.

00:15:27.940 Yeah.

00:15:28.340 Got it.

00:15:28.600 But the idea is, you know, we really want to start the cooling because there's actually

00:15:32.160 an equation that tells you that if you drop 10 degrees C in temperature, your metabolism

00:15:37.220 will slow down by 50%.

00:15:38.560 So if you can get down three lots of 10 degrees, you've slowed down to a half, a quarter, an

00:15:44.000 eighth of the speed, which means you've got eight times as much time to transport the

00:15:47.200 patients.

00:15:47.820 Wow.

00:15:48.100 So they.

00:15:48.760 That's why they cool organs when they're transporting them too.

00:15:51.000 So you want to get them cold quick.

00:15:52.420 Yeah.

00:15:52.840 So here they've arrived at the alcohol facility.

00:15:54.760 The surgeon has been called in and I'm assuming this is a whole body patient.

00:15:58.840 They're going to open up the chest in what's called a median stenotomy, basically just

00:16:02.280 cut open the chest.

00:16:03.180 Okay.

00:16:03.680 They're going to access the major blood vessels of the heart.

00:16:08.100 This is still working on the surgery part.

00:16:10.960 So this is all taking place above freezing.

00:16:13.040 It's important to understand.

00:16:13.920 We haven't gone below freezing at this point.

00:16:15.760 So here they're connecting up.

00:16:16.760 These tubes are basically connecting up the patient's vascular system, the blood vessels

00:16:19.780 to a pump and chiller system.

00:16:23.000 And what we're going to do over the next several hours under computer control is to pump out

00:16:27.660 as much of the blood and intracellular fluid as we can.

00:16:31.060 And there you can see basically the perfusion machine that's doing the pumping.

00:16:33.920 It's going to take as much blood and other fluids as possible and replace it with a

00:16:37.780 kind of a medical grade antifreeze.

00:16:39.920 Okay.

00:16:40.160 And do you save the blood and stuff that you pull out?

00:16:42.580 No, we don't need to save that.

00:16:43.800 That's something that's easily replaceable.

00:16:45.180 We do that all the time, even today.

00:16:47.820 So we're replacing it with the medical, that's me talking about it.

00:16:51.400 So the medical grade antifreeze or cryoprotectant, as we call it.

00:16:55.240 We actually use the same cryoprotectant that's being used in research right now for human

00:16:59.900 organ cryopreservation.

00:17:01.500 Now, we talked about how people will try to donate the organs and you have to get them

00:17:04.420 from here to whatever state the person's in, hopefully in time.

00:17:07.700 And a lot of them don't make it in time.

00:17:09.380 And so we lose tens of thousands of people every year because they can't get the organs

00:17:13.240 in time.

00:17:13.960 So the goal is, and this is very relevant to what we're doing, and there's a lab right

00:17:17.660 here actually in California that does this, not too far away.

00:17:21.220 The goal is to take organs and cryopreserve them just like we do, hold them down at extremely

00:17:27.520 cold temperatures.

00:17:28.580 You can keep them for months or years if necessary.

00:17:31.560 Keep them in a hospital bank and then re-warm them.

00:17:34.180 And then as the patient needs them, they're right there.

00:17:35.780 You don't have to worry about transporting them.

00:17:37.120 You could save many tens of thousands of lives a year.

00:17:39.140 And we're on the cusp of doing that right now, that the company's actually achieved

00:17:42.460 successful freezing, actually not freezing, we'll get into that, basically freezing of

00:17:47.100 rabbit kidneys, re-implanting them and having them function well.

00:17:50.400 And re-implanting them in the same rabbit or different rabbit?

00:17:52.460 Yeah, the same one.

00:17:53.360 Okay.

00:17:53.700 Yeah.

00:17:54.260 But do they have the, can you go to a different body yet, like with that sort of thing?

00:17:59.400 Because what I'm hearing you say is that at hospitals-

00:18:02.040 Well, it could go in a different one, yeah.

00:18:03.640 But then you've got issues of possible rejection, the more different the creature is.

00:18:07.280 Although that's something I think we'll figure out pretty soon.

00:18:09.800 We're getting some good progress there.

00:18:11.500 But what you're saying, or what I'm hearing is that you can take the organs out of someone

00:18:17.340 or someone and save them, preserve them at a hospital.

00:18:22.760 Yep.

00:18:23.600 Hypothetically, this is what we're getting close to.

00:18:25.880 And then if someone was in the hospital and needed an organ, they would be able to take

00:18:30.240 one and put it in them.

00:18:31.040 Exactly.

00:18:31.740 Right.

00:18:31.880 And so just to emphasize, we already do this, not with organs, because organs are more complex.

00:18:36.420 We already do this with things like corneas, heart valves, skin, obviously eggs, sperm, embryos.

00:18:43.020 So people say, oh, this cryonics is crazy because you can't unfreeze something.

00:18:46.440 Well, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

00:18:48.320 Of course, just think about it for a minute.

00:18:49.440 Of course we do.

00:18:50.180 We do this all the time.

00:18:51.640 It's just the difficult part is actually the re-warming.

00:18:54.020 And the more complex the tissue we're talking about, once we go from a tissue to an organ,

00:18:57.180 it gets difficult.

00:18:57.880 That's why it's the cutting edge today.

00:18:59.260 And going from an organ to a whole body, that's something we can't do today.

00:19:03.580 Right.

00:19:03.620 But are you really going to say, if we can't do it today, it's impossible?

00:19:07.280 Yeah.

00:19:07.620 We went from cigarettes to vaping.

00:19:10.380 We went from biplanes to landing on the moon.

00:19:12.860 Yeah.

00:19:13.260 We went from the unicycle to, I don't know what, nothing.

00:19:17.580 I mean, the unicycle was kind of a piece of shit, but I mean, we've done some, yeah,

00:19:21.100 we continue to do some amazing things, you know?

00:19:23.480 So I agree.

00:19:25.240 So, sorry.

00:19:26.940 I have so many ways to go in here.

00:19:28.880 Well, should we finish kind of going through the process?

00:19:30.780 Because we're getting-

00:19:31.400 Yeah, this is better.

00:19:32.020 The less I talk, the better.

00:19:33.120 Go on.

00:19:33.480 I'm serious.

00:19:34.620 No.

00:19:34.860 So, I mean, yeah, it's something you have to kind of really know the details of.

00:19:37.180 So at that point, after several hours of replacing the blood, we finished what's called perfusing

00:19:42.820 the body.

00:19:43.260 We replaced the blood with these fluids.

00:19:44.760 Oh, wait.

00:19:44.940 I did have one question.

00:19:45.740 Yeah.

00:19:46.000 Sorry.

00:19:46.580 So the organs, you took them out of that body?

00:19:48.500 No, no.

00:19:48.720 You didn't?

00:19:49.120 The organs are still in?

00:19:49.940 We don't need to do that.

00:19:50.680 No.

00:19:50.860 Okay.

00:19:51.100 Not for what we do.

00:19:51.900 Okay.

00:19:52.120 That's the other kind of research, but-

00:19:53.600 Okay, you've just gone into the main arteries and stuff and started to take the blood out

00:19:58.340 and put in the antifreeze.

00:20:00.340 Exactly.

00:20:00.920 Okay.

00:20:01.200 And that takes a few hours because if you just throw it in there at high concentration

00:20:04.260 when the patient's still relatively warm, it's pretty toxic to the cells.

00:20:07.480 So we have to start off with a low concentration and gradually ramp that up over time, over

00:20:11.120 a few hours.

00:20:11.920 Right.

00:20:12.100 So it's all very well-researched to optimize this.

00:20:14.920 At the end of that process, we can then drop from just above freezing, it's about plus

00:20:18.560 three degrees C, down to about minus three, and then we put this kind of wrap across the

00:20:23.460 patient and start pumping in liquid nitrogen vapor.

00:20:26.260 That starts the wrapper cooling, and then we're going to move them eventually to another

00:20:29.340 room where we'll put them in another container and then plunge the temperature very rapidly

00:20:33.500 to about minus 90 degrees C.

00:20:35.600 Dang, boy!

00:20:37.000 Which, you know, in your freezer box homes are minus 20, so it's minus 90.

00:20:40.340 That's just to start with, and then we slow down a bit to let the temperature kind of

00:20:44.320 equal out throughout the body.

00:20:45.280 And eventually, we're going to go down a little more slowly, all the way down to minus

00:20:49.640 196 Celsius, or minus 320 Fahrenheit.

00:20:54.100 That's the devil's produce drawer.

00:20:56.280 At that point, man, you're really, dude, you're deep then.

00:20:59.720 You're very deep.

00:21:00.400 You're so cold that basically you could wait for a thousand years and you'd be just as

00:21:03.660 fresh as when you started.

00:21:05.100 Once you go below a certain temperature, basically nothing is happening.

00:21:07.560 There's no metabolism whatsoever.

00:21:09.180 Really?

00:21:09.660 So at that point, you're not going to, so at that point, you're not going to decay at

00:21:13.920 all?

00:21:14.100 Not at all.

00:21:14.860 At all?

00:21:15.680 No.

00:21:16.200 Wow.

00:21:16.660 Not in the least.

00:21:17.640 So you are really stuck.

00:21:19.420 I mean, you are, you're, is any part of you still living at that point?

00:21:26.020 No, you're not living, but this is actually a really important discussion.

00:21:29.560 We get really philosophical about this.

00:21:31.660 You're not living because life implies metabolism and activity.

00:21:34.980 And obviously, we've stopped all of that happening, but you're not dead either because

00:21:38.840 dead implies that you've gone beyond repair, right?

00:21:40.980 You've gone forever.

00:21:42.120 And that's, that's not the case either.

00:21:43.580 Just as we've seen with the case with skin cells and corneas and other things that we

00:21:46.520 can, they're not alive because they're not functioning, but we can bring them back.

00:21:49.980 Yeah.

00:21:50.180 Just like Tom, like Tom Brady, you know?

00:21:53.460 So yeah, so death is not a clear concept, actually.

00:21:57.140 At least most people don't have a clear idea of what death really is.

00:22:00.220 So we've talked about clinical death.

00:22:01.640 That's just when a doctor says, I declare you dead.

00:22:03.520 Well, sorry, not, that's legal death.

00:22:05.180 Legal death is where a doctor says, I'm going to call you dead.

00:22:07.660 Maybe I can bring you back, you know, but I'm going to call you dead.

00:22:09.840 I'm giving up at this point because there's nothing more I can do.

00:22:12.660 Clinical death is different, right?

00:22:14.620 Clinical death is just when you stop breathing and your heart stops beating.

00:22:17.840 That's it.

00:22:18.080 Those are the two requirements.

00:22:19.480 Yeah.

00:22:19.680 But in the old days, that was death to people.

00:22:21.640 Like before about 1960, you know, if we were talking and you were so excited about what

00:22:25.360 I was saying that you just went, oh, oh, oh, and you had a heart attack and you stopped

00:22:28.360 breathing.

00:22:28.940 We check your pulse.

00:22:29.780 So just like in the old Sarshtag series, he's dead, Jim.

00:22:31.800 That was it.

00:22:32.180 We gave up.

00:22:33.020 Yeah.

00:22:33.300 We don't do that today.

00:22:34.200 Someone would jump on you to start doing CPR and defibrillation.

00:22:37.320 We'd be shocking you and probably bring you back.

00:22:39.520 So what we said was dead before about 1960, we don't consider dead today.

00:22:43.140 We consider in need of help.

00:22:44.840 So dead keeps evolving.

00:22:46.900 Yeah.

00:22:47.520 What we call dead keeps evolving.

00:22:48.660 What we call dead keeps evolving and keeps changing.

00:22:51.280 Yeah.

00:22:51.840 Wow.

00:22:52.280 That's interesting.

00:22:53.140 And today, you know, we have the idea of brain death to take it further.

00:22:56.120 So in our view, when someone declares you legally dead, you're also clinically dead at

00:23:00.620 that point.

00:23:00.960 You're not really dead in some fun.

00:23:02.980 If by death, we mean irreversible.

00:23:04.780 You've gone forever.

00:23:06.000 You're not dead because almost everything in your body is still alive.

00:23:09.460 Now, you will be dead if we don't intervene and stop things decaying.

00:23:12.500 You know, if you do what most people do, which to me is completely crazy, throw you in the

00:23:15.480 ground to be eaten by worms and bacteria or shove you into a gigantic oven to be incinerated,

00:23:19.720 which is just crazy stuff to me.

00:23:21.500 Yeah.

00:23:21.600 At that point.

00:23:22.140 Yeah.

00:23:22.320 You can't really do that.

00:23:23.440 You can't be reheated.

00:23:24.680 That's right.

00:23:25.420 Now, what about this?

00:23:26.340 So with clinical death and legal death, is that where they're then able to take organs

00:23:31.660 and donate them?

00:23:32.720 Yes.

00:23:33.540 So that's interesting.

00:23:34.780 So after clinical and legal death, you still have organs that go and can live in someone

00:23:40.160 else.

00:23:40.400 Exactly.

00:23:42.160 Man, that's a pretty good insight of what could be possible one day.

00:23:45.740 And that's an interesting point about that.

00:23:47.060 There's also something called donation after cardiac death, which means that actually your

00:23:51.100 brain, in principle, your brain could still be functional when they take your organs out.

00:23:55.540 Wow.

00:23:55.940 You got to be really, really generous to do that.

00:23:59.860 That's something they could, in principle, do.

00:24:01.200 So this idea of dead is actually a lot more complex than people realize.

00:24:04.540 They often talk about crying and say, well, look, dead is dead.

00:24:07.000 So it's impossible.

00:24:07.660 Well, what kind of death are we talking about here?

00:24:09.820 There's different kinds.

00:24:11.020 It'd be crazy if you're like at a street corner, some guy gets hit by a bus and people are like,

00:24:15.080 he's dead.

00:24:15.700 And you're like, is he?

00:24:16.960 No.

00:24:17.180 No, that's why we call the emergency medical services, because, you know, just because

00:24:20.880 they're not breathing doesn't mean that they're dead yet.

00:24:23.660 Wow, man.

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00:26:53.480 Yeah, it's interesting to start to think about, yeah, what is the idea of death and when is

00:26:57.920 it?

00:26:58.120 But we already have three, two, we have legal death, clinical death, and then we have the

00:27:03.980 point where you've incinerated or gotten, you know, damaged, whatever's left so badly

00:27:08.740 that it's irreversible.

00:27:10.760 And to you, that's real death.

00:27:11.320 Yeah.

00:27:11.620 And we have a special term for that, which will sound very, very highfalutin probably because

00:27:14.620 some of us are philosophers like myself.

00:27:16.780 So we call this information theoretic death.

00:27:19.180 Now, it's not as complicated as it sounds.

00:27:21.020 Basically, the idea is, well, obviously, let's say you're in a plane crash and you were totally

00:27:24.560 incinerated on the crash.

00:27:26.100 Are you dead?

00:27:26.820 Well, yes, you're dead because there's no conceivable technology that could ever fix you.

00:27:30.200 So even if you gathered your ashes and frozen, nobody could ever fix that.

00:27:34.180 But if, to take an example, let's say that, let's say, Theo, that you're doing some kind

00:27:41.180 of nefarious thing.

00:27:42.020 You were thinking about robbing a bank or doing something like that.

00:27:43.980 And you were kind of sitting in your chair here, kind of writing it down on a piece

00:27:47.100 of paper.

00:27:47.580 Okay.

00:27:47.820 First of all, I've got to buy the guns here.

00:27:49.880 And then I've got to find out how to get through the locks.

00:27:51.980 And then I've got to...

00:27:52.700 Yeah.

00:27:52.860 All your planned detail on a piece of paper.

00:27:54.560 Planning masks, maybe.

00:27:55.960 Look, you've done this before.

00:27:58.520 Quiet shoes.

00:27:59.800 Yeah, exactly.

00:28:00.680 So you've got your plan on this piece of paper.

00:28:02.280 And you think, oh, God, that was so stupid.

00:28:04.140 Why did I write that down?

00:28:05.040 Someone's going to find this.

00:28:06.240 You know, the FBI has been maybe sniffing around.

00:28:08.080 And so you take the paper, you shred it in one direction, you shred it in the other,

00:28:10.480 you throw it in the trash, you think, okay, I'm safe now.

00:28:13.760 No, you're not.

00:28:14.960 Because if the NSA has been watching you, because they know what kind of guy you are, come on,

00:28:18.260 they probably are.

00:28:19.080 Oh, yeah, they definitely...

00:28:20.400 I've gotten a couple of...

00:28:21.900 No, I haven't gotten actual mail, but I've gotten emails that say I've got to tone it

00:28:25.560 down.

00:28:25.820 So they've got their eye on you.

00:28:26.720 So they're going to go into your trash.

00:28:27.760 They're going to fish that out.

00:28:28.520 They're going to lay it out.

00:28:29.220 They're going to scan it, run it through a very clever computer algorithm.

00:28:32.520 And they're going to reconstruct what you thought you'd destroyed.

00:28:35.740 And if you think about the brain, it's like a three-dimensional version of that piece

00:28:38.520 of paper, you could do a lot of damage, actually, to the brain.

00:28:40.960 You can damage the cell membranes, poke holes in them, change some of the chemistry.

00:28:44.680 It doesn't mean that you couldn't ever repair it.

00:28:46.920 So long as there's enough information left in the brain that some advanced technology,

00:28:50.900 like an advanced molecular nanotechnology, maybe run by artificial intelligences, whatever,

00:28:55.660 if it can put those pieces back where they were, then you could actually bring back the

00:29:00.080 function of the human being.

00:29:01.520 So that's why we call it information-theoretic death.

00:29:03.580 If you've lost too much information, there's too much damage, it's really obliterated, then you're

00:29:07.720 dead.

00:29:08.400 But beyond that point, you're not, because more advanced technology could, in principle,

00:29:12.480 repair you.

00:29:13.220 Now, we don't know for sure that's going to happen, but it seems like a pretty good bet

00:29:16.140 we're going to get better and better at repairing people.

00:29:18.600 That's a pretty reasonable assumption, I think.

00:29:20.320 Yeah, I agree.

00:29:21.200 I mean, well, technology just keeps advancing, you know?

00:29:23.880 Even if you wanted it not to, at this point, it's impossible for us to even stop.

00:29:29.880 There was an article the other, there was something the other day about some pigs I saw.

00:29:33.120 I think it was even on TMZ.

00:29:37.640 Here it is right here.

00:29:38.500 Dead pigs come back to life.

00:29:40.960 Did you see this?

00:29:41.760 Yeah.

00:29:42.240 Yeah, this is very interesting research.

00:29:43.620 It was-

00:29:44.000 Heartbeat returns during experiment.

00:29:46.280 I'm just going to-

00:29:47.380 A group of pigs was pronounced dead for hours as part of a study.

00:29:50.660 Um, and, and then, incredibly, uh, I can't, go back.

00:29:58.460 And then, incredibly, scientists got it beating again.

00:30:02.040 Um, staggering for you, researchers from Yale began pumping synthetic fluids through the

00:30:06.400 bodies of dead pigs, getting their hearts to faintly beat, uh-

00:30:11.760 This is after about five hours of what would be considered death in human beings, normally.

00:30:15.940 So was this, like, do you know this has been going on for a long time, or was this news to you?

00:30:20.140 Uh, this was, well, this was news in a sense, but it wasn't a surprise.

00:30:23.860 The same researchers actually did something in 2019 that was fairly similar.

00:30:27.500 They kind of extrapolated it a little bit further.

00:30:29.380 And back in the 80s, um, we don't do any animal research anymore because it makes you a big

00:30:33.460 target for various people.

00:30:34.560 But back in the 80s, we, uh, or an associated lab did some work with dogs where they would

00:30:40.160 basically take out all the blood from the dogs, replace it with a saline-based solution,

00:30:43.440 um, and then chill them down to just that four degrees C above freezing, hold them there for

00:30:48.980 several hours, like four hours, replace the blood, re-warmed them, and they came back

00:30:53.380 and they were perfectly fine.

00:30:54.380 They were neurologically intact, they recognized people, everything was fine.

00:30:57.180 So it's kind of a little bit similar to what they're doing with the pigs.

00:30:59.200 So they took the blood out of the dogs, put it back and replace it with a saline solution

00:31:03.360 for a few hours.

00:31:04.020 And supported the circulation, you know, externally because the heart wasn't beating on its own.

00:31:08.060 Okay, right.

00:31:08.520 So then kept it alive with, uh, machines and then brought it back to life.

00:31:13.280 And the dog knew what was going on, knew where it's on and it was.

00:31:15.440 Exactly, yeah.

00:31:15.860 So much like they're doing with the pigs.

00:31:17.160 So that's actually very advanced research because we had, um, there's a guy called Dr.

00:31:21.640 Peter Rhee, who actually used to be Clinton's personal physician.

00:31:23.840 And he's a real expert in this area.

00:31:25.900 And he realized that using low temperature surgery, uh, is pretty good stuff because there

00:31:30.680 are some people you can't operate on.

00:31:32.100 Like if you have a gunshot wound, you're going to tend to bleed out really fast and trying to get

00:31:35.680 you to a hospital and operate on you in time, usually hopeless.

00:31:39.160 So he thought, well, what if we could cool people down a lot more than we do today?

00:31:42.180 Because we do sometimes cool people for like brain surgery.

00:31:44.180 We'll take them down a few degrees.

00:31:45.820 He said, what if we could take people down all the way to 10 degrees C above freezing,

00:31:48.880 which is pretty chilly.

00:31:50.440 Uh, and the idea is that again, as you drop in temperature, your metabolism slows down

00:31:54.320 and that would buy you about four times as much time.

00:31:56.980 So if you had only 10 minutes to operate, you've got 40 minutes and so on.

00:32:00.520 And, oh, I see.

00:32:01.380 So at a certain, so the, the, the colder you have, the more preserved you are.

00:32:05.360 Yeah.

00:32:05.820 And stopping your body from metabolizing and slowing that, then that equates to multiplying

00:32:11.960 the amount of time that you have, uh, to operate on the body as it is.

00:32:16.300 So now I don't know if he's actually started the study yet.

00:32:18.880 It was supposed to be in Pittsburgh, maybe because there are a lot of gunshot wound victims

00:32:22.060 there or something, but I think they've moved it.

00:32:23.820 I don't know if they've started doing it yet, but they've done it in animals and it does work.

00:32:27.060 Um, and he actually came to visit us in, in Arizona at Alcor and he said, well, what you're

00:32:31.760 doing is more radical than what I'm doing, but it's basically the same principle.

00:32:34.480 And then, you know, it made sense.

00:32:36.240 And so, so now you guys have the body you have, so that's your clientele.

00:32:41.120 You freeze them down, you get the fluids into them.

00:32:44.000 Do you keep the organs in them?

00:32:45.220 I guess it depends on if it's a full body.

00:32:48.020 Yeah.

00:32:48.440 Well, no, we keep everything in there.

00:32:49.980 Okay.

00:32:50.180 Um, but yeah, there's, there's a basic choice about half our members choose to preserve

00:32:53.300 the entire body.

00:32:54.560 And the other half, including myself, just preserved the brain.

00:32:57.640 Now as a practical matter, we leave the brain inside the skull because it's actually kind

00:33:00.520 of hard to remove it without damaging it.

00:33:02.060 And it's just a useful protective box anyway.

00:33:03.940 So no point in removing it.

00:33:05.180 But the thing you want is the brain because everything else you can, must have regenerate.

00:33:09.000 And you might think, well, why do you want to do that?

00:33:10.620 Isn't it like Futurama where you'll be zipping around on a flying saucer to keep your head

00:33:13.740 going or something?

00:33:14.480 Well, no.

00:33:15.080 The idea is that, um, given the kind of technology we'll need to repair, you know, 70, 85 billion

00:33:22.460 damaged neurons plus all the trillions of cells in the body, that kind of technology should

00:33:26.840 be able to regenerate a body pretty easily.

00:33:29.320 Um, that's actually relatively easy.

00:33:30.980 Well, I say easy.

00:33:32.080 It's a nearer term problem than being able to repair a brain.

00:33:34.700 We can already start to grow at least proto organs in the lab, basic organs we can grow

00:33:38.480 today out of stem cells.

00:33:39.400 And the liver regrows.

00:33:40.340 The liver regrows part of itself, right?

00:33:42.060 The liver is the only thing that humans are really bad at this.

00:33:44.700 We're just terrible compared to animals.

00:33:46.080 You can chop their arms off.

00:33:46.900 Some of them and they regrow their arm or the worms grow half their bodies.

00:33:49.740 Possums.

00:33:50.140 Yeah.

00:33:50.360 We just, humans are lousy at this.

00:33:52.120 When we're embryos, we can actually regenerate parts, but basically we can generate part of our liver

00:33:56.180 unless we drink too much, maybe, but we can do a little bit of liver

00:33:58.500 We can maybe get the tip of our finger back and that's it.

00:34:01.280 We're just terrible.

00:34:02.360 But that's because we have the wrong genetic sequence, right?

00:34:04.460 We can get in there.

00:34:05.040 We can alter that.

00:34:06.160 We should better program the body to regrow parts.

00:34:08.500 And we're starting to grow things in the lab today.

00:34:10.700 So to me, regrowing a body is actually going to be a lot sooner than repairing a brain.

00:34:14.840 I think we'll do that in the next 20 years or so.

00:34:17.000 Whereas the brain is going to take longer.

00:34:18.560 So my logic is why should I take my whole body, which hopefully if I, you know, I won't die

00:34:22.520 early, it's going to be in really lousy condition by the time that happens.

00:34:26.480 It's just going to be easy to grow a new one probably.

00:34:28.800 Right.

00:34:28.900 And you'd want a new one too.

00:34:30.020 Nobody's, if somebody, look, man, if you bring me back, honestly, Dr. Max, if you bring

00:34:33.680 me back and I'm in my same old body and I can't, you know, go on dates or, you know, do hoops

00:34:40.420 or anything like that, bro, I'm not going to want to be there.

00:34:42.980 Exactly.

00:34:43.360 No, yeah.

00:34:43.620 The idea is, and it's a good thing you bring that up because it always kind of amazes me

00:34:46.920 that people think that's what you do.

00:34:48.240 Of course, you're not going to bring back someone as a 95 year old.

00:34:50.260 What's the point?

00:34:51.260 The idea is you're going to rejuvenate the body.

00:34:53.300 With that kind of technology, you're going to rejuvenate the body, reverse the aging

00:34:56.180 process and fix it so you don't age further.

00:34:58.780 And yeah, you'll be in your best body that you ever had.

00:35:00.680 And I would assume that there will be options either before they bring you back fully or

00:35:05.300 right afterwards.

00:35:05.860 They're going to say, well, okay, we'll bring you back in your best body you ever had,

00:35:08.940 but shall we also fix your short sightedness?

00:35:11.080 Do you want to fix that back problem you've had for your entire life?

00:35:13.840 L5-S1.

00:35:15.080 Yeah, yeah.

00:35:16.120 But do they, but so, but now does this, does the size of a brain grow over time?

00:35:22.620 So could you, would you have to bring the body back?

00:35:25.760 Say, say you, okay, sorry, there's a lot of ways to go.

00:35:28.620 There's a lot of ways to go here.

00:35:29.720 So, okay.

00:35:31.220 So first, what are the options that you guys offer for freezing?

00:35:35.140 Just so I know, for the cryonics process at Alcor, that's your company, Alcor.

00:35:39.760 And what, what, what are the, the options?

00:35:43.860 Like what's the packages?

00:35:45.420 I should say, but when you say my company, it's actually a nonprofit organization.

00:35:48.740 We're a 501c Texas nonprofit organization.

00:35:51.780 Okay.

00:35:52.100 And that's important to us because as a profit making company, I've got nothing against that,

00:35:56.200 but it tends to not survive very long.

00:35:58.320 If you look at them historically, whereas nonprofits, educational organizations, religious

00:36:01.440 organizations, they can survive for centuries.

00:36:03.460 That's why we're set up that way.

00:36:04.680 So nobody actually makes profits from this.

00:36:06.660 We, you know, we have salary stuff, but nobody, nobody makes profits.

00:36:10.140 It's fat.

00:36:10.640 Well, I love that, man.

00:36:11.880 It's fascinating.

00:36:12.820 Cause yeah, I mean, you guys are basically like, um, like death, like Magellans.

00:36:17.660 I mean, you guys are out there just like, you know, that's, that's a good analogy.

00:36:20.820 I think that's a good analogy because when people say, well, what kind of people do this?

00:36:24.780 Um, well, there are a number of factors, but one of them that's really critical is you

00:36:27.740 have to be an explorer.

00:36:29.080 I mean, if you think about, uh, I've talked to so many people about this and, uh, those who say,

00:36:33.340 well, yeah, I can, I can see how this could work.

00:36:34.920 This is not implausible.

00:36:35.800 And then they go, but oh my God, this might work.

00:36:38.260 That's, that's scary because they think about coming back into a future, maybe a hundred

00:36:41.700 years from now, everything's radically different.

00:36:44.080 Their skills are outdated.

00:36:45.120 They don't know anybody and it horrifies them, which I think is one big reason why there aren't

00:36:49.340 more people doing this.

00:36:50.740 Uh, it tends to appeal to people who have, you know, Magellan type personality and explorer

00:36:54.760 personality who look on that and say, well, yeah, it's going to take some getting used

00:36:57.420 to, although the organization part of its mission is to help you get rehabilitated.

00:37:01.140 Yeah.

00:37:01.620 You got to be brave because you're going to go see your buddy and he's going to be like

00:37:05.840 70 years older or you're going to go, or he's going to be gone.

00:37:09.960 All your, like a lot of your friends might be gone or say if you died at like 21 and you

00:37:15.220 got frozen, you come back 40 years later, you're going to go over to your friend's house.

00:37:18.360 He's going to be 60, you know, it's like, everything's going to be actually probably

00:37:23.420 not that because the, again, the technology we're talking about to, to reverse all the

00:37:27.800 damage that's been done by that point that you legally die, plus the extra damage done

00:37:31.140 in the process, we will fix the aging problem before we bring people back.

00:37:34.620 So at least your friend, yeah, they may be 80 years older, but they won't look 80 years

00:37:37.940 older, but yeah, there's still be that huge gap in experience, obviously.

00:37:41.600 Now it's better if you can persuade your friends and family to come with you, which, you know,

00:37:45.000 I know quite a few people.

00:37:45.820 I know a number of people already cryopreserved and I have, my wife has signed up for this

00:37:49.200 and a lot of my friends are.

00:37:50.200 So I don't have that problem so much.

00:37:52.160 I'll know some people, but not everybody will, but you know, I'd still rather come

00:37:55.700 back not knowing anybody.

00:37:56.880 I mean, I came from, I came from England to Los Angeles back in the eighties and I

00:38:00.680 didn't really know anybody.

00:38:01.460 And, and it was a weird place here.

00:38:03.160 You had this kind of bright object shining from the sky instead of water falling on me,

00:38:06.360 which is what's up with that?

00:38:08.040 People driving on the wrong side of the road and stuff, but.

00:38:11.740 We came over here.

00:38:12.480 Yeah.

00:38:12.680 In the 1700s and we didn't know anybody.

00:38:14.560 Yeah.

00:38:14.960 You know?

00:38:16.660 Exactly.

00:38:17.220 It's like a journey through time instead of a journey through space.

00:38:20.320 Dude, that's so, there's so many things going on here, man.

00:38:24.220 So, but also you're going to bring your wife, bro.

00:38:27.540 That's a risky move, huh?

00:38:31.060 Why is that risky?

00:38:32.140 I mean, I think it's great.

00:38:33.600 I think it's very honorable and it's very, it's, it's very sweet and kind.

00:38:38.140 But what if like, dude, you know, it just see, you got to really be dialed in for a lot, you

00:38:43.720 know, cause you only said what for light, what is the vow?

00:38:46.760 It's like.

00:38:47.100 Oh, we didn't do that one though.

00:38:48.360 Oh, it's till death do us part.

00:38:49.580 You should have said till legal death do us part.

00:38:51.440 Yeah.

00:38:51.660 We didn't do that one because we have a problem with the idea of death.

00:38:53.920 So, uh, no, it does bring up some interesting questions because yeah, I mean, okay, you've

00:38:57.960 got 50 years together, 70 years together.

00:38:59.720 Okay.

00:38:59.880 But what about a thousand years together?

00:39:02.280 So, but you know, we'll worry about that when it comes to it.

00:39:04.980 Yeah.

00:39:05.300 That's a good call.

00:39:06.660 So yeah, you have to think of these people.

00:39:08.660 Yeah.

00:39:08.940 Cause you, I think in the simplistic mind, which I happen to possess, thankfully for the both

00:39:14.800 of us, um, it's, you just think like the, the, the, the animal, the, the, the, the Neanderthal

00:39:20.660 thoughts are like, I'm going to live forever.

00:39:23.340 Uh, I'm going to come back.

00:39:24.960 But you don't think about after that.

00:39:26.780 Like, do you, like, what do you guys do?

00:39:28.920 Do you guys just give them like a bus ticket, like out of prison or whatever?

00:39:31.700 Do you guys like, like what, where, where do you put them at?

00:39:34.720 Is there like a re-entry program?

00:39:37.380 Uh, yes or no.

00:39:38.620 I mean, no, in the sense that this is still so far off that we can't really, we can't

00:39:43.040 really figure out, we don't even know who will make the decision to bring you back.

00:39:45.920 I mean, will it be our organization?

00:39:47.240 Will it be some kind of, you know, uh, ethics panel of universities or a government thing?

00:39:52.240 We don't, we don't even know that.

00:39:53.640 Right.

00:39:53.780 So we can't really plan in too much detail, but yes, we do think about it.

00:39:57.540 And we, it's part of our mission statement.

00:39:59.000 You go to the website, look at our mission statement.

00:40:00.540 Part of that is not just to wake you up and kind of shove you out the door and say, good

00:40:03.920 look, man, no, we're going to actually rehabilitate you.

00:40:06.460 Yeah.

00:40:06.480 Here's a hand warmer.

00:40:07.620 Yeah, exactly.

00:40:08.800 Uh, yeah.

00:40:09.240 When today, think about it today, there are people who've been in comas for years, even

00:40:12.420 decades.

00:40:13.400 Uh, if you've seen the movie awakenings with Robert De Niro.

00:40:15.880 I just watched that movie a couple of months ago.

00:40:18.380 Can we bring some of that up?

00:40:19.420 That's fascinating.

00:40:20.920 Yeah.

00:40:21.140 Based on, on, on the book by Oliver Sacks.

00:40:23.020 So these are people who were basically, uh, in a special kind of coma, basically the dopamine

00:40:27.340 levels in the brain were really low.

00:40:28.760 They're like frozen statues, not really aware of the passage of time.

00:40:31.620 Some of them like that for more than the, more than a decade or two.

00:40:34.440 And when they were woken up, uh, of course, for some of them, it was pretty horrifying

00:40:37.720 because they'd suddenly aged overnight.

00:40:39.800 Uh, so a little like that set in our case, it'd be the opposite of that.

00:40:42.560 Uh, of course you look in the mirror and go, damn, I look good.

00:40:45.360 Yeah, right.

00:40:47.680 Because people would be excited because you would be bringing them back in.

00:40:51.200 So what you're saying is you're going to be bringing people back into their best self.

00:40:54.400 Exactly.

00:40:54.900 Because of technology.

00:40:55.960 That'll help.

00:40:56.540 Because you'll come back not feeling crappy.

00:40:57.740 Like when you, when you cease to function, you'll come back feeling the best self.

00:41:01.340 Plus we are there to help you out.

00:41:02.780 We're going to rehabilitate whatever that will mean at the time.

00:41:04.740 It might mean, um, you know, we're going to put you in some virtual reality environment

00:41:08.320 to sort of train how the world works before you step out in front of that flying car

00:41:11.540 or whatever, you know, uh, we don't really know what things would be like a hundred years

00:41:15.020 from now.

00:41:15.380 Nobody does.

00:41:16.200 Anybody who says they do is lying because you just can't forecast that far ahead.

00:41:19.980 Yeah.

00:41:20.340 That's future people.

00:41:21.400 If somebody says they're from the future, brother, probably lying.

00:41:24.860 Um, wow, man.

00:41:27.040 So yeah, you really, your work kind of like, like, you know what you do, but it's also what

00:41:34.120 you do is constantly like going to be evolving.

00:41:38.220 So it's kind of interesting.

00:41:40.400 It's like your job is, um, like kind of, uh, your job is kind of trans.

00:41:49.180 It's like, it's malleable really, because we don't know what the future holds.

00:41:53.980 It's, it's difficult.

00:41:54.480 It's malleable because we don't know what the future is going to be exactly.

00:41:56.980 And we get a better idea over time.

00:41:59.540 Um, I mean, uh, it's also, it changes because of the conditions under which we can do our

00:42:03.900 job.

00:42:04.200 So for instance, it's only in the last few years in this country that we could use the

00:42:08.920 death with dignity laws, which are actually very useful for us.

00:42:12.060 Um, so yeah, before that, basically we had to wait till our doctor declared illegally dead.

00:42:16.900 That could have happened, you know, out of the blue, no warning.

00:42:19.620 But today we've done this twice so far.

00:42:21.300 A member can call us up and say, look, you know, my doctor said, I've got no more than

00:42:24.680 six months to go.

00:42:25.800 I'm in a state that allows the death with dignity laws.

00:42:28.140 I want to go two weeks from Wednesday.

00:42:30.300 No.

00:42:30.960 So we can say, okay, great.

00:42:33.300 We're going to have a team there.

00:42:34.540 So we don't have to worry about getting someone there, you know, get an emergency call.

00:42:37.460 We've got to get someone there.

00:42:38.200 The person's already stopped breathing.

00:42:39.260 No, we can have a team right there.

00:42:41.460 They can take the medication.

00:42:42.600 They have to self-administer our law.

00:42:44.840 Uh, we wait soon as they're declared legally dead, we begin with no delay whatsoever.

00:42:48.760 That's, that's pretty much ideal.

00:42:50.760 That's fresh.

00:42:51.660 And that's not every state right now.

00:42:52.860 That's only certain, California can do that in a few other states.

00:42:55.480 Can Arizona do that?

00:42:56.600 Not yet.

00:42:57.120 No.

00:42:57.540 They should be soon.

00:42:58.520 Arizona, Arizona, they're pretty wild west out there in a lot of ways.

00:43:01.940 Yeah.

00:43:02.140 We're kind of, we're kind of advanced in some ways and a little backward in others.

00:43:04.920 Yeah.

00:43:05.280 It's a good call.

00:43:05.840 I used to live in Tucson over there and a lot of people don't have shirt sleeves on a

00:43:08.860 lot of times.

00:43:10.320 And, uh, we have, you know, we have marijuana is legal there where it's not in some of the

00:43:13.340 places, but, uh, we're a little conservative on some of the social stuff like

00:43:16.600 death with dignity, but I think it's, it's mixed there.

00:43:18.760 So I think it will get there, but we do have teams here in California.

00:43:21.220 So that's not really a big problem.

00:43:23.180 So, so you have the, okay.

00:43:25.720 So people get brought, people sign up in advance.

00:43:31.400 Yeah.

00:43:32.600 Almost always.

00:43:33.320 And do you meet with them usually at least probably have Zooms with them or people are

00:43:36.600 just like, I want the program.

00:43:37.800 This is it.

00:43:39.160 Uh, quite often they'll come for a visit and we do encourage that because I mean, you

00:43:43.580 don't have to, cause there's so many videos who can go online and see what we do, but

00:43:46.000 we do encourage people to come and visit, uh, you know, we give tours of the place.

00:43:49.680 We're very open.

00:43:50.320 So we want people to see what the reality of it is.

00:43:53.100 Oh yeah.

00:43:53.660 But they don't have to come visit if they've read a lot about it.

00:43:56.260 I went to that Coors Brewing over there in Golden, Colorado.

00:43:58.920 You ever been to that?

00:44:00.080 No, but they have some similar containers to ours.

00:44:02.240 They have the very big containers.

00:44:03.460 Like the dewers, basically the vacuum containers, I think for brewing.

00:44:07.140 Yeah.

00:44:07.280 That's what I was thinking of.

00:44:08.160 If they're full body, you store them up and down or can you do a lay down option?

00:44:12.120 No, we don't do a lay down.

00:44:13.020 That'd be kind of inefficient for space.

00:44:14.960 That's an interesting question because, um, a crown, the first crowning organization in

00:44:18.780 China started a few years ago and we were talking to them and that's what they wanted

00:44:23.400 to do because it's kind of a cultural thing.

00:44:25.600 They want to lay that.

00:44:26.440 You can't stack them though, because that applies superiority if you're on top, I guess.

00:44:29.820 So they want to do that, but it just, it just doesn't work very well.

00:44:32.720 It doesn't work very well in the vessels.

00:44:34.060 It's expensive.

00:44:34.500 Nothing from China works very well, I don't think.

00:44:36.460 No, I agree.

00:44:37.800 Uh, so no, they're actually, uh, we actually store patients upside down, the whole body

00:44:42.100 patients.

00:44:42.920 Wow.

00:44:43.440 I don't think we really need to do that.

00:44:45.720 Um, it basically, the idea was that the liquid nitrogen will boil off over time.

00:44:50.140 It will gradually get lower and lower over a period of weeks to months.

00:44:52.840 And if you have a little bit at the bottom, obviously that's where you want the brain

00:44:55.620 to be at the bottom, the last thing to get warmed up, although that shouldn't have

00:44:58.480 happened.

00:44:58.600 So they're upside down?

00:44:59.860 Yeah.

00:45:00.640 But it's not really necessary today because we now store patients in, inside

00:45:04.480 of these steel, uh, steel containers, you can see there's an aluminum pod that contains

00:45:08.680 the patient and that conducts temperature really well.

00:45:11.200 So even if you could just got a little bit of liquid nitrogen at the bottom, it's still

00:45:14.040 going to be super cold at the top, but it's just kind of an extra, uh, you know, extra

00:45:17.940 layer, what do they call it?

00:45:18.900 Shoot, shoot, uh, laces and what is the phrase basically?

00:45:22.600 Shooting fish in a barrel?

00:45:23.820 No, no.

00:45:24.820 Uh, yeah, the backup option with the laces and the stride, I forget what, you know

00:45:29.000 what I mean?

00:45:29.300 We, we just do that as an extra, uh, protection.

00:45:31.600 An extra layer.

00:45:32.520 Yeah.

00:45:33.380 Um, and who's this chick?

00:45:34.700 She's cute, huh?

00:45:35.260 No, sorry, I meant suspenders and belt, belt and suspenders.

00:45:37.800 Oh yeah, if you go belt and suspenders, that's insane.

00:45:40.080 That is, that's a Starbuck from Battlestar Galactica.

00:45:42.740 Is it really?

00:45:43.720 And many other shows.

00:45:44.620 Dang.

00:45:45.240 I gotta quit going to coffee bean then.

00:45:47.360 We had a really good time actually talking.

00:45:48.840 That was a good, that was a good tour.

00:45:50.380 I bet, bud.

00:45:51.260 She's enthusiastic about it.

00:45:52.180 She seems, and she seemed like a nice lady.

00:45:54.480 Yeah.

00:45:54.660 But I'll say this, so, dude, this is, first of all, this is crazy, man.

00:45:59.160 First of all, thank you so much for coming in, man.

00:46:00.920 This is really fascinating because I don't want to die, to be honest with you, you know?

00:46:05.860 That death is boring.

00:46:06.960 I mean, who wants to die?

00:46:08.040 It's just boring.

00:46:09.040 Yeah, well, part of it starts to feel good because you want to get some rest, I think,

00:46:12.080 but there's a big other part of it that it's like, but you know, I don't want that much

00:46:16.740 rest.

00:46:17.460 Yeah.

00:46:18.100 So what I'm thinking is like, I would love to be able to come back one day, you know, or have

00:46:22.000 the option.

00:46:22.500 And so what kind of-

00:46:24.660 That's the thing, though.

00:46:25.340 It's an option, right?

00:46:26.360 You don't have to live forever.

00:46:28.260 We're not, and that's something, because I think you mentioned that earlier, we're not

00:46:31.180 offering eternity.

00:46:32.020 We're not offering immortality because we can't do that.

00:46:33.840 You can still get hit by a bus or get shot by somebody or an asteroid can land on your

00:46:36.980 head.

00:46:37.340 This is not about immortality.

00:46:38.720 We're not offering that.

00:46:39.880 We're offering the chance to come back and live for who knows how long, hundreds, thousands

00:46:43.120 of years.

00:46:43.900 But, you know, after 500 years, you go, you know, I think I've done everything I want

00:46:47.460 to do.

00:46:47.960 You can always check out.

00:46:49.040 So it's an option.

00:46:50.080 That's really the point of it.

00:46:52.500 Would you ever worry that you would bring people back and wherever they've gone when

00:46:57.520 they've left here, or like hypothetically left here, was so awesome, they're going to

00:47:02.300 be like, oh, fuck, dude, you brought me back here, back here to Hardee's or whatever?

00:47:06.840 I'm not really worried about that.

00:47:10.760 I have to distinguish my own personal opinion from that of the organization, right?

00:47:13.540 The organization doesn't take any view on whether there's a soul or not.

00:47:17.420 I personally don't believe in a soul.

00:47:19.180 I think that we're just a physical being.

00:47:21.100 And if you destroy that, you're gone.

00:47:22.860 And so long as we can restore it, you can come back.

00:47:25.560 But if there is a soul, and, you know, I've taught philosophy of religion.

00:47:28.260 I taught at Mount St. Mary's not too far from our state.

00:47:30.300 Oh, really?

00:47:30.820 Yeah.

00:47:31.140 Oh, that's awesome, man.

00:47:32.060 So, yeah, I've taught philosophy of religion, and I know, I understand that probably better

00:47:35.160 than many of the religious people do, I found.

00:47:37.020 I do know that you're a philosopher and a doctor.

00:47:39.020 I do know those things.

00:47:39.960 Yeah.

00:47:40.220 So I don't want you to think I don't know anything.

00:47:42.420 So I don't think it's a problem, and for several reasons.

00:47:45.660 Let's look at, we mentioned in vitro fertilization, what used to be called test tube babies.

00:47:51.180 Right.

00:47:51.840 They're frozen.

00:47:52.740 My ex-girlfriend's eggs are frozen.

00:47:54.200 Yeah, frozen embryos that could be there for years, sometimes more than a decade.

00:47:57.560 Well, if you believe that the soul enters at the point of conception, they have souls.

00:48:03.180 And yet, do you ever, you know, of the millions of people walking around today who used to

00:48:06.460 be in that state, do they ever say, yeah, it was really boring, you know, floating around,

00:48:09.780 getting really bored?

00:48:10.400 No, they never report that.

00:48:11.640 So it doesn't seem to be a problem for that.

00:48:13.840 We also have people who have been legally dead for up to an hour or so.

00:48:17.300 And if you believe the soul leaves when the body stops functioning, again, they don't

00:48:21.500 really report, you know, being in some kind of boring condition.

00:48:24.280 So I don't think it's a problem.

00:48:25.360 Also, because if there is a soul, it's obviously not a physical thing, because otherwise we

00:48:29.100 could detect it with science.

00:48:30.280 So it must be outside space and time.

00:48:32.140 So I think whether it's a day or, you know, a minute or a day or a hundred years shouldn't

00:48:35.380 make any difference.

00:48:36.560 Right.

00:48:36.700 That's true.

00:48:37.100 If it's gone for an hour, it's gone for, if it's that attached to the actual physical

00:48:42.200 being, then it should be able to come back.

00:48:44.260 Yeah.

00:48:44.400 So really, you guys, if people are able to be thawed out, hypothetically, back into existence,

00:48:54.400 we might find, we would learn a lot about if there are souls or not.

00:48:58.360 Maybe, yeah.

00:48:59.400 I mean, my view is it's completely compatible with just about any religion.

00:49:02.560 There might be one or two exceptions that, is it the Jehovah's Witnesses or one of the

00:49:05.600 groups that doesn't do blood transfusions?

00:49:07.500 That could be a problem for us removing the blood.

00:49:09.800 But apart from that, I mean, if you're a Christian, it would seem to me that you'd want to do

00:49:13.880 this because, first of all, why are you in such a rush to get to your eternal reward?

00:49:17.600 Don't you want to do some more good works or save some souls, that kind of thing?

00:49:20.440 Yeah.

00:49:20.740 It's a bit selfish to take off at the earliest opportunity, right?

00:49:23.820 Yeah.

00:49:24.080 Buzz out.

00:49:24.800 Yeah.

00:49:25.060 You have one stroke and then you leave.

00:49:26.860 That's kind of soft.

00:49:27.960 And Judaism, too, I think is actually very pro-living and, you know, life is basically good.

00:49:33.200 You stick around and do good works.

00:49:34.740 Oh, yeah.

00:49:35.280 My Jewish buddies, they'll mill around forever, dude, if there's some opportunity, you know?

00:49:39.000 Jews love to do stuff and create, you know, be part of things for sure.

00:49:43.720 So you're not going to lose them.

00:49:45.620 No.

00:49:46.000 I mean, the way I think of it is cryonics is really an extension of emergency medicine.

00:49:49.580 It's not like a strange thing about dead people because they're not really dead.

00:49:52.960 It's just an extension of emergency medicine.

00:49:54.560 It's a doctor saying, I just can't do anything more for this person right now.

00:49:58.100 And we're saying, well, let's not just destroy them by putting them in an oven or the ground.

00:50:02.000 Give them to us.

00:50:02.860 Let us treat them.

00:50:03.660 Stop them getting worse and give the future a chance of giving them more life.

00:50:06.920 That seems like the reasonable, conservative thing to do.

00:50:09.940 Yeah.

00:50:10.160 It seems like, yeah.

00:50:12.660 I mean, I consider myself a Christian and I believe that I'm down for it, you know?

00:50:18.020 Yeah.

00:50:18.260 Do you feel like it's like, do you feel like it's like divinely intended, like there's divine intention behind this?

00:50:25.980 Or do you think that it would be like divinely frowned upon, I guess?

00:50:30.500 And you may have already just answered that.

00:50:32.340 Well, I don't think either.

00:50:33.780 If there is a God out there, I don't see God objecting to us creating the internet, for instance, or electric vehicles or even old-fashioned vehicles.

00:50:43.140 So I think if there is a God, then for the most part, that God lets us use our own intelligence, our God-given intelligence, if you like.

00:50:50.220 Yeah.

00:50:51.260 And what we do with it is up to us.

00:50:52.740 And what we do, hopefully we'll do good things with it.

00:50:54.980 But I don't think there is a list of things that we mustn't do.

00:50:57.620 It's more a matter of, you know, let's do the right thing.

00:50:59.320 Let's do good things.

00:51:00.440 Yeah.

00:51:00.560 And to me, this is a good thing.

00:51:01.400 This is about saving lives, about giving people more life and able to do more good things.

00:51:05.300 Yeah.

00:51:05.680 And maybe God would be impressed, too.

00:51:07.040 God would be like, dang, you guys figured this out?

00:51:09.200 Yeah.

00:51:09.440 I think that'd be pretty cool, too.

00:51:10.940 You got off the planet in 1969, then it's all on the moon.

00:51:13.540 Now you're bringing people back, too.

00:51:14.980 That's pretty cool.

00:51:15.800 You guys are doing good stuff, man.

00:51:17.000 Good going, guys.

00:51:17.300 Yeah.

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00:53:03.060 And are you Austrian?

00:53:05.020 No.

00:53:06.120 Austrian, no.

00:53:07.200 No, I'm not Austrian.

00:53:08.900 Oh, yeah.

00:53:09.500 Oh, yeah.

00:53:10.060 That would be Schwarzenegger, huh?

00:53:11.900 No, I'm from England, actually.

00:53:13.020 I've been there.

00:53:14.020 I'm going to pull this back in.

00:53:15.100 A little bit of the history.

00:53:16.000 Okay.

00:53:16.520 I'm from England.

00:53:18.100 I've been in the States since 1987.

00:53:20.220 Oh, I couldn't tell if you were from England if you had a cold.

00:53:22.440 Well, yeah, kind of a little of both.

00:53:24.740 So I came over, actually, because of cryonics, in a way.

00:53:27.800 I actually first came over in 1986 to California because I joined Alcoa.

00:53:33.180 I was 22 years old at the time.

00:53:34.540 Wow.

00:53:34.920 And I came over here because I'd sent a little donation out of my puny student salary.

00:53:40.200 I sent a tiny donation because Alcoa was a tiny little organization at the time.

00:53:43.340 And how'd you hear about it?

00:53:45.060 I heard about it.

00:53:47.060 Oh, well, there's a long and a short version of that.

00:53:49.360 So I heard about it initially as a fictional thing in a kid's TV show, which kind of still

00:53:53.620 amazes me because this was like a young kid's TV show with some pretty interesting advanced

00:53:58.360 ideas.

00:53:59.060 In the very first one, it's called Time Slip.

00:54:00.820 You can actually get it on DVD now, which I did about 10 years ago.

00:54:03.760 In the first episode, they go through this kind of hole in space and time some years into

00:54:08.460 the future to this Arctic research station.

00:54:11.080 And the episode that the captain of the station had been seriously injured.

00:54:15.140 And so he was cryopreserved.

00:54:16.540 Wow.

00:54:16.820 And they looked at his frosty face.

00:54:17.960 I went, whoa.

00:54:19.060 It also had artificial intelligence.

00:54:20.540 It had brain augmentation.

00:54:21.560 This was a kid's show.

00:54:22.340 It was like amazing.

00:54:23.760 So that was a fictional thing.

00:54:25.160 And then later on, I read a book by Robert Anton Wilson.

00:54:27.500 I don't know if you know this guy from the 70s.

00:54:29.440 Used to be editor for Penthouse.

00:54:30.540 He wrote the Illuminatus trilogy.

00:54:31.980 It was a big counterculture book back then.

00:54:35.180 In his nonfiction book, Cosmic Trigger, he wrote about his daughter Luna, who'd been

00:54:39.200 murdered at the age of 14 in San Francisco.

00:54:41.640 And he had a terrible one.

00:54:42.720 He had a brain cryopreserved.

00:54:43.880 I went, oh, so this is a real thing.

00:54:46.280 So that's when you learned out that the thing you had seen in like a fictional aspect as

00:54:50.060 a child was now real.

00:54:51.200 That was the first time I saw it was real.

00:54:52.660 And so you sent him in some money.

00:54:53.880 You're like, this is my church.

00:54:55.080 Before that, I didn't know anybody actually doing it, though.

00:54:58.380 So the next thing happened, I was kind of a strange person in a sense because I was

00:55:02.380 interested in all these weird futuristic ideas and nobody else around me was.

00:55:05.580 And then I saw an ad for a group meeting at Imperial College in London to talk about

00:55:09.360 space colonization and life extension and all the kind of cool things I was into.

00:55:12.900 So I went down there.

00:55:13.900 And at that time, they had the magazine we still produce today, Cryonics magazine.

00:55:17.440 And they shoved it at me and said, what do you think of this?

00:55:19.240 I said, yeah, that makes sense to me.

00:55:21.240 So that's how I first heard of it.

00:55:22.380 And then I got involved with the organization.

00:55:23.760 I joined up.

00:55:24.620 So I came over to the States in 86 for six weeks.

00:55:28.020 I signed up.

00:55:28.900 I did my training.

00:55:29.560 I actually went to UCLA with Jerry Leaf, who was a surgery researcher there.

00:55:34.540 Alcor at the time was actually in Fullerton just before they moved to Riverside, which

00:55:37.780 is not a good place to be.

00:55:39.660 Yeah, a lot of bangers out there, dog.

00:55:41.280 A lot of, at least MS9 out there.

00:55:42.800 We had legal problems.

00:55:43.880 We could talk about that.

00:55:44.620 Yeah, all these guys do too, trust me.

00:55:47.040 Not quite the same kind, maybe, but with the bureaucrats.

00:55:50.800 Oh, you did?

00:55:51.580 Yeah.

00:55:52.100 So you guys are trying to establish, or you're joining something that's already established

00:55:55.340 out there.

00:55:55.600 You're on a six week.

00:55:56.360 Is it like a camp or something?

00:55:57.560 No, it was just, I decided to come over.

00:55:59.520 Well, basically what happened was the president at the time said, okay, you sent us some money.

00:56:03.420 That's great.

00:56:04.340 I'm going to challenge you.

00:56:05.260 Why don't you actually sign up, become the first member in England?

00:56:07.780 And I said, okay, I'll do that.

00:56:09.700 They said, if you've got the balls for that, why don't you actually start something in England?

00:56:13.440 So we ended up actually creating the first cryonics organization in England at the time

00:56:16.480 and did a lot of media appearances.

00:56:18.880 I did this very scary thing.

00:56:20.560 I'd never been on TV.

00:56:21.520 I was on the Terry Wogan show, which is like Johnny Carson used to be.

00:56:24.660 Everybody watched it.

00:56:25.660 It was live.

00:56:26.200 Terry Wogan.

00:56:26.800 Bring up a picture of Terry Wogan.

00:56:27.940 Let's see what we're looking at here.

00:56:28.900 I just want to see this.

00:56:29.740 Very famous presenter in England.

00:56:31.220 This lad.

00:56:31.900 The biggest show live.

00:56:33.820 So I had to go on the stage live in front of millions of people, like no experience.

00:56:37.820 Terrifying.

00:56:38.340 There he is.

00:56:38.740 Zoom in on a pick up and let me get a look at this guy.

00:56:40.940 Terry Wogan.

00:56:41.840 Yeah.

00:56:42.260 He looks like that.

00:56:43.220 Been around forever.

00:56:43.960 He looks exactly like you'd expect him to look.

00:56:46.620 Irish.

00:56:47.060 Irish fella.

00:56:47.740 Oh, is he Irish?

00:56:48.540 Irish.

00:56:48.800 Very cheerful.

00:56:49.180 Oh, that's unfortunate.

00:56:50.120 Well, he was a good host.

00:56:51.940 But actually, that was actually a good appearance because I was on the very, I had the other

00:56:56.280 guests were on.

00:56:56.840 I sat next in the makeup room to Shirley Bassey.

00:56:59.080 You remember the Bond singer?

00:57:00.160 She did all the James Bond themes in the, in the Sean Connery days.

00:57:02.980 I remember.

00:57:03.740 Diamonds are forever.

00:57:04.360 Oh, the songs.

00:57:05.660 Yeah, I remember.

00:57:06.520 Wow.

00:57:06.780 That was her.

00:57:07.480 So she was in the chat because I was there for like a minute.

00:57:09.780 She was there for probably two hours.

00:57:10.600 Was she cute?

00:57:12.060 Yeah.

00:57:12.400 I don't think I could really see her because she was kind of to my side.

00:57:14.700 Yeah.

00:57:15.460 But then on the actual show, they had.

00:57:18.440 That's crazy.

00:57:19.460 So they just have you.

00:57:20.520 So that had to feel kind of strange.

00:57:22.360 It was.

00:57:22.580 Or at this point, were you feeling kind of like empowered then?

00:57:24.500 Like, what have I stepped into?

00:57:25.720 I was kind of terrified at that point.

00:57:27.080 I mean, I got used to it fairly quickly, but it was kind of scary.

00:57:29.860 Scary for the very, it was actually my second appearance.

00:57:31.720 So the first one was two days early on what they called breakfast TV at the time, because

00:57:34.680 it was a new thing.

00:57:35.760 But actually for the Woken show, I guess they had a budget in those days.

00:57:38.500 I was in Bristol and they sent a guy on the train all the way to Bristol to talk to me

00:57:41.580 to make sure I wasn't a crazy person, I guess.

00:57:43.460 Wow.

00:57:44.180 But on the show itself, they had, what was his name?

00:57:48.080 Oh, James Burke.

00:57:49.000 He was like a science boffin who did all these very popular shows, had a show called Connections,

00:57:53.620 which is amazing.

00:57:54.300 It showed how all these developments in technology came out of totally unexpected directions.

00:57:57.800 And it was a really good show.

00:57:59.100 And he stayed on next to me.

00:58:00.220 He was that guy before me.

00:58:01.640 And I was like, oh shit, what's he going to say?

00:58:02.920 Is he going to say this is stupid?

00:58:04.340 And he said two things, both of which were supportive.

00:58:06.640 So I went, oh, phew, that's great.

00:58:08.900 Wow.

00:58:09.300 You almost accepted at that point.

00:58:10.960 Yeah.

00:58:11.500 Like a moment of like, oh, here's some acceptance by kind of just society.

00:58:16.020 So then I came over to the States, spent six weeks here basically doing the training,

00:58:19.060 went back.

00:58:19.680 And then the next year, I moved over here to go to USC to do my doctoral work.

00:58:23.760 So I helped out with Alcor doing cases back those in those early days.

00:58:27.680 And then eventually went on to run the organization much later.

00:58:30.360 And at that point, are you guys like going to bars and people are like, are you, how are you, how are you advertising?

00:58:35.620 Going to bars, yeah.

00:58:36.520 How are you reaching people, you know?

00:58:38.700 Or people that buy motorcycles?

00:58:40.400 Because I'll say this.

00:58:42.500 That's an interesting thought.

00:58:43.700 People that buy, motorcyclists are the number one organ donors.

00:58:46.800 A lot of people don't know that.

00:58:48.640 But yeah, I've heard that.

00:58:50.020 Plus they're probably adventurous in spirit, right?

00:58:52.660 Yeah.

00:58:53.320 Yeah.

00:58:53.760 And they, I mean, yeah, they're the number one organ donors.

00:58:55.920 But anyway, so how are you guys advertising like and getting the word out to people that there's this company?

00:59:02.180 I'm still thinking about you saying bars.

00:59:03.600 I think about going into a bar and saying, hey, can I buy you a pint and talk to you about getting your brain frozen?

00:59:09.380 I'm not sure that would work that well.

00:59:11.280 I don't know, dude.

00:59:12.240 There's some chicks I think it would work on.

00:59:14.420 Any gay dude would take that as a good, you could say anything to a gay dude.

00:59:18.080 And if he's interested, he'll be interested.

00:59:20.960 So I think you could buy them anything, you know?

00:59:23.760 But the biker thing is interesting because actually, yeah, it's interesting because how do you find people?

00:59:28.560 I mean, our members tend to be pretty well educated because you need to sort of understand a bit about the process and understand how it could work and the future stuff.

00:59:34.820 But I think very important, again, is this adventurous personality.

00:59:37.420 And how do you find that combination?

00:59:38.900 Maybe mountain climbers, maybe people who like to travel the world, but yeah, maybe bikers.

00:59:43.300 I don't know.

00:59:44.740 Yeah, no, it's interesting.

00:59:45.660 Well, you said earlier, these are adventurers, you know?

00:59:47.880 It's people that are explorers, you know?

00:59:50.660 Yeah, I mean.

00:59:51.940 Explorers of tomorrow.

00:59:53.400 Yeah.

00:59:54.240 Well, people, what's that from?

00:59:56.460 Me.

00:59:57.060 Oh.

00:59:57.940 I'm just doing the voice like from, I don't know, like Seth MacFarlane voice or something.

01:00:01.520 Yeah, no, it makes you feel like that.

01:00:03.020 It's like, well, I'd never thought before until you and I are sitting here talking.

01:00:07.260 First of all, could I come back?

01:00:09.800 That's all I, that's as far as my brain had gone with it.

01:00:12.420 Wow, if they could do this, sure, I'd be willing to be a part, you know?

01:00:15.640 I'd be willing.

01:00:16.400 This sounds like it'd be up my alley.

01:00:18.040 But then would I want to, you know?

01:00:20.460 Would you want to just walk out into like, you know, back out into life not knowing who would be there, what it would be like?

01:00:26.480 What if we were under like rule of another, you know, you just don't know what it would be like?

01:00:30.760 Well, okay, so I've said before that, you know, nobody can forecast the future, not in detail.

01:00:36.040 Right.

01:00:36.180 We have no idea.

01:00:37.440 But I think we can reasonably safely make some general predictions.

01:00:41.360 Okay.

01:00:41.580 General trend predictions.

01:00:42.620 So you say we have no idea what, I think we have some idea of what it'd be like.

01:00:46.060 And I'm going to say things here which a lot of people listening are going to go, nah, that's bullshit, man.

01:00:49.900 Because everybody today is thinking that the future is really screwed up.

01:00:53.600 Can I say F words here?

01:00:54.820 Yeah, you can say it.

01:00:55.720 Everybody's saying that the future is fucked, right?

01:00:57.380 We're going to be fucked by the AIs.

01:00:59.260 We're going to be fucked by pandemics.

01:01:00.980 There's going to be Mad Max worlds.

01:01:02.100 There's just going to be all kinds of awful stuff.

01:01:03.580 Because that's what science fiction shows because that's the easy way to write drama, right?

01:01:07.380 Yeah.

01:01:07.640 I think that's the wrong way to look at things.

01:01:09.440 If you think about human history over the very long term, have things got better or worse?

01:01:14.280 Well, obviously they've gotten better because we just go back a little way.

01:01:17.240 Women didn't have the vote.

01:01:18.080 Black people were enslaved.

01:01:19.020 We didn't have painkillers.

01:01:19.940 We didn't have antibiotics.

01:01:21.320 We didn't have anything.

01:01:22.140 A lot of people couldn't keep their teeth for a long time.

01:01:24.480 We didn't have teeth, right, exactly.

01:01:25.500 In fact, in England, we didn't have bad teeth just a few decades ago.

01:01:27.920 You guys are still practicing it.

01:01:29.580 Yeah, that's crazy.

01:01:30.260 Still working on that one.

01:01:32.140 So I often ask people that.

01:01:34.580 Let me go take it back.

01:01:35.620 100 years, 200 years, 500 years, 1,000 years.

01:01:37.720 Where do you want to live then?

01:01:38.740 Hell no, if you actually think about what it's like.

01:01:40.540 It's horrible.

01:01:41.460 It was also very violent.

01:01:42.620 I mean, people think it's violent today.

01:01:44.420 They have no idea.

01:01:45.300 Things have gotten—we're actually at the least violent time in human history.

01:01:48.500 Even the Bible.

01:01:49.700 At one point, Cain killed Abel.

01:01:50.960 There were four people in the Bible, and one of them killed the other one.

01:01:53.400 Yeah, well, God says in the Old Testament quite a few times, wipe out this village.

01:01:58.500 Wipe out all of them.

01:01:59.520 Or else, sometimes he says, keep the women from yourselves, but sometimes you just wipe out everybody.

01:02:03.040 So it was pretty brutal back then.

01:02:05.320 Yeah, it sounds like it.

01:02:06.380 So my view is that—

01:02:07.440 I would have hated that.

01:02:08.060 The reasonable way to think about the future is to extrapolate what we've always been doing.

01:02:12.220 Right, almost like the standard, like the S&P 500.

01:02:14.680 Yeah, we get better over time.

01:02:16.240 There are a few—and again, a lot of people don't believe this, but go look.

01:02:19.540 There's a great website called Our World in Data, if you don't believe me.

01:02:22.500 Our World in Data?

01:02:24.080 Our World in Data.

01:02:25.040 In Data.

01:02:25.960 Our World in Data.

01:02:26.260 Yeah, or humanprogress.org.

01:02:27.620 Both of them will show you in immense detail in all these charts how many people are starving to death.

01:02:32.520 It's going down—actually, in total, not just proportionally.

01:02:36.380 So that gives you just actual data.

01:02:38.340 So instead of when somebody's like, man, everything sucks, man, you know?

01:02:41.800 Yeah, these actually have lots and lots of information showing how things are generally getting better.

01:02:45.460 Obviously, there are local problems.

01:02:46.700 Things get worse locally in various ways.

01:02:48.840 Oh, yeah.

01:02:49.280 But overall, there are a few people starving, not just proportionally, but in total.

01:02:54.360 A lot of people think pollution's getting worse.

01:02:56.520 Even smart people.

01:02:57.440 I was debating this professor at UCLA on a—it's actually an Oxford Union debate.

01:03:02.740 And I was telling you, you know, the air in Los Angeles has gotten better over decades.

01:03:05.680 And she went, no, it hasn't.

01:03:06.920 No, it hasn't.

01:03:07.860 Like, really?

01:03:08.540 How could you not know that?

01:03:09.440 Just look at pictures from the 60s.

01:03:11.120 You couldn't see.

01:03:11.860 It was like London fog.

01:03:12.960 Yeah.

01:03:13.240 Right?

01:03:13.400 We had lead in the air.

01:03:14.220 We had all kinds of volatile kind of compounds.

01:03:16.520 Dope smoke in the air, too.

01:03:17.520 More, probably.

01:03:18.380 Yeah, I bet that as well.

01:03:19.280 But no, but you're saying, so that's a great place to get information.

01:03:21.860 Like, yeah, even Joe Rogan says that.

01:03:23.480 Sometimes I've romanticized things.

01:03:25.120 And I'm like, man, I miss this.

01:03:26.340 And I miss that.

01:03:26.800 And he goes, you would have hated that.

01:03:28.420 He's like, right now is really the best, you know, the best time to be alive.

01:03:32.780 You have the best chance of living.

01:03:33.940 You have option to as much information as you want.

01:03:36.660 Yeah.

01:03:36.840 I mean, you go back a couple hundred years.

01:03:38.300 You probably never went more than 20 miles from where you were born.

01:03:40.580 That was where you lived.

01:03:41.660 You did the damn job your dad and grandfather did.

01:03:44.360 I mean, you had no choices.

01:03:45.200 If you were gay, you're in big trouble.

01:03:47.360 Yeah, yeah.

01:03:47.880 You're hiding.

01:03:48.420 Yeah, gay people had to hide all the time.

01:03:50.220 If you had the wrong religious ideas, you're in big trouble.

01:03:52.400 You couldn't even get away.

01:03:53.560 Witches.

01:03:53.920 Remember they had witches?

01:03:55.260 Oh, yeah.

01:03:55.840 Like 130 years ago, they had witches somewhere, dude, and they got them.

01:03:59.560 Yeah.

01:03:59.740 Yeah, that stuff's crazy, man.

01:04:01.760 So, yeah.

01:04:02.320 So, I think it's reasonably safe.

01:04:04.120 I mean, it's always possible we'll completely screw things up and just destroy ourselves.

01:04:07.300 But...

01:04:07.420 I love your attitude.

01:04:09.300 The most likely thing is there will be a pretty decent place to come back in.

01:04:12.160 It'll probably be better than it is today.

01:04:13.920 So, I'm willing to come back, even if I have nothing.

01:04:16.100 And I do have plans to actually have something.

01:04:17.940 But if I have nothing, I still want to do it.

01:04:20.100 I want to come back and enjoy my life.

01:04:22.120 Yeah, because if you come back and it sucks, you can always leave again.

01:04:24.780 Exactly.

01:04:26.060 There are ways...

01:04:26.920 Excuse me.

01:04:27.860 There are ways of actually coming back with something, we hope.

01:04:31.540 First of all, as an organization, because we're a non-profit, we have what we call a patient care trust fund,

01:04:36.560 where when you pay for this procedure, a big chunk of that money is put into a separate fund

01:04:40.200 and is managed by its own board of trustees.

01:04:42.300 It can't be used to pay for anything else, just for keeping you cryopreserved and eventually revived.

01:04:47.980 So, we can't divide that up because it's a non-profit.

01:04:49.940 But you can personally set up a special trust fund, an asset preservation fund,

01:04:55.500 where it'll be managed by trustees after you're legally dead.

01:04:59.060 And when you come back, if this works out, then you should get that money back.

01:05:02.640 It's kind of like a university endowment, I guess, or something like that,

01:05:05.740 where you can tie it up for a long period of time.

01:05:07.660 So, hopefully, when you come back, you'll have money.

01:05:09.500 Because we don't even know if you need money.

01:05:11.360 It may be that robots will be doing all the main things.

01:05:13.220 You only have to pay for really expensive stuff, like going into space or something.

01:05:16.520 We don't really know.

01:05:17.540 But it's nice to have that option.

01:05:18.660 And so, the cost, when people want to sign up for this type of service, what is that cost?

01:05:24.340 And what is that like?

01:05:27.640 Yeah, it's less than people think.

01:05:29.640 I mean, I signed up as a pretty poor student when I was 22 years old in England.

01:05:33.840 But, yeah, our costs have gone up a bit since then because it was all volunteer.

01:05:37.260 And now we have a professional organization.

01:05:39.100 But basically, there are two expenses.

01:05:40.760 There is the membership dues, which you pay while you're still legally alive.

01:05:45.280 It keeps the organization functioning.

01:05:46.560 And that actually depends on age now.

01:05:49.840 But let's say it's around about $600 a year.

01:05:52.940 So, yeah, if you're someone who goes to Starbucks every day and gets a cup of coffee, don't tell me you can't afford that.

01:05:57.360 Right.

01:05:57.840 Yeah, if you can afford to get a little buzz in the morning, you can afford to get a little buzz forever.

01:06:01.860 Yeah, it's a fraction of that price.

01:06:03.580 So, it's really not that much.

01:06:05.140 And then the one that will seem expensive is the fee itself, we'll call it the cryopreservation fee, which pays for the entire process that I've described.

01:06:12.380 Everything from us sending a team to stand by your bedroom even for days to weeks, doing that whole procedure, taking you to Alcor in Arizona, doing the surgery, the perfusion, the cool down, and the indefinite storage.

01:06:22.440 All of that for a whole body is a minimum of $200,000.

01:06:25.940 And for neuro, just the brain is $80,000.

01:06:28.520 Oh, wow.

01:06:28.940 Now, that may seem like a fair bit to people, but I make the point that almost all our members, probably 95% of our members, pay for that with life insurance.

01:06:35.340 So, you don't have to have $80,000 or $200,000 in your pocket.

01:06:38.300 You have a life insurance policy, which most people can have.

01:06:40.560 And if you're reasonably young and healthy, that's not a big expense.

01:06:44.420 So, just makes our organization the beneficiary.

01:06:47.040 Makes your organization the beneficiary of the life insurance policy.

01:06:49.840 Wow, that's really interesting.

01:06:50.680 And can people even say they have enough money in their life insurance policy?

01:06:54.260 They could split that up and make their family and you guys.

01:06:57.120 Absolutely.

01:06:57.640 Wow.

01:06:59.720 Dang.

01:07:00.460 So, dude, I think I want to get in, bro.

01:07:03.200 I can't even believe I didn't think I was going to buy in.

01:07:05.420 But I think.

01:07:06.460 Go visit us.

01:07:07.280 Go visit us in Arizona.

01:07:08.180 Yeah, it's like all timeshare.

01:07:10.880 It's like the ultimate timeshare, you know?

01:07:13.720 And a lot of timeshares are shit.

01:07:15.100 My brother got in one, but this is like the timeshare.

01:07:18.760 This is like the real timeshare.

01:07:20.980 Like if I'm buying a timeshare, I feel like you guys are like selling the best one, you know?

01:07:26.860 So, you wouldn't have to share your body with anybody.

01:07:29.380 Yeah, could you share one of the little things with somebody?

01:07:31.980 Well, actually, yeah.

01:07:32.780 The doers, the containers.

01:07:34.020 Yeah, actually, that is what you do right now because.

01:07:35.800 Good.

01:07:36.120 The ones we've been using for a long time contain four whole body patients.

01:07:41.080 But now we have what we call the super deers, which will take about 11 whole body patients.

01:07:44.740 Hell yeah, dude.

01:07:45.340 You might say, well, who am I going to be spending my time next to?

01:07:47.680 Well, you won't be aware of anything, of course.

01:07:49.120 There's no consciousness.

01:07:50.500 Do you ever see the movie Vanilla Sky, Tom Cruise and Penelope Cruz?

01:07:54.940 Yeah, I did see it.

01:07:55.900 Yeah.

01:07:56.460 So, that was very unrealistic cryonics, right?

01:07:58.280 They had cryonics in that.

01:07:59.160 But they offered a lucid dreaming option where you could have dreams while you're cryopreserved.

01:08:04.120 That does not work.

01:08:05.200 You cannot do that because there's no brain activity.

01:08:07.140 There's no metabolism.

01:08:08.160 So, you guys don't have that.

01:08:09.040 That doesn't work.

01:08:10.320 But what about the one movie with Mel Gibson that I loved?

01:08:13.420 Remember when he came back?

01:08:14.420 He was frozen?

01:08:15.180 Oh, is that one where he ages rapidly when he comes back?

01:08:17.500 Yeah.

01:08:17.760 See, that's kind of a negative one.

01:08:19.240 There's no reason why that would happen.

01:08:20.820 Yeah, sorry.

01:08:21.580 Don't reference that one.

01:08:22.600 But I loved that movie just because he got to come back.

01:08:25.440 You know, he got to come back and have some moments that he missed out on.

01:08:28.320 Because he was from the 1940s or something.

01:08:30.460 Yeah, and he got to come back.

01:08:31.380 There it was right there.

01:08:33.020 Forever Young.

01:08:33.740 Forever Young, right.

01:08:35.400 There's been so many movies.

01:08:36.680 Demolition Man, of course, were...

01:08:38.720 That's one of the reasons I was so interested in speaking with you because it is fascinating.

01:08:44.800 It's fascinating because I still just think of my life on these limited terms.

01:08:49.880 And to be able to adjust my perspective, to think of my life as like,

01:08:54.320 well, what if this is just a start of something that's going to happen?

01:08:58.720 It is just the start.

01:08:59.700 I mean, if you've been 50 years, it's still just the start.

01:09:01.820 That's the great thing is it changes your perspective on things.

01:09:04.740 And if you think, what kind of people would we be?

01:09:07.300 I mean, just think about how we are right now.

01:09:09.280 Human condition is pretty awful in a way because you're pretty stupid when you're 20 years old.

01:09:13.600 Even 30 years old, you kind of haven't learned very much.

01:09:15.860 Even 41.

01:09:16.860 Yeah, even 58.

01:09:17.980 I mean, it takes a while.

01:09:19.580 58?

01:09:19.860 I'm 58, yeah.

01:09:20.540 Oh, you look great, man.

01:09:21.400 Well, thanks.

01:09:21.800 I don't want to get cryopreserved any sooner than I need to.

01:09:24.560 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:09:26.320 So, yeah, it takes us a while to learn things.

01:09:28.560 And just as we're starting to figure a few things out in life,

01:09:30.620 we start going wrinkly and weak, getting heart disease, and our brain slows down.

01:09:35.100 That's true.

01:09:35.520 Isn't this awful?

01:09:36.460 As age goes up, vitality goes down at the same time.

01:09:39.160 And what if you could live indefinitely, get older in years, but stay vigorous and youthful?

01:09:45.580 In fact, maybe even get smarter because we could probably do alterations to make you even more intelligent

01:09:49.100 and emotionally more stable.

01:09:51.780 What kind of person would you be after a few hundred years of increasing experience and wisdom?

01:09:55.820 I mean, for one thing, I don't think we'd have many wars because who fights the wars?

01:09:58.700 It's the 19 and 20-year-olds.

01:10:00.340 It's not the people who are 70 years old.

01:10:02.180 They don't want to risk all that life they've had.

01:10:03.580 So, I think people would think long-term.

01:10:05.660 They think about the environment.

01:10:06.560 They think about not having wars, better kinds of ways of negotiating.

01:10:10.180 So, I think it really changes a lot of stuff, and I think for the better.

01:10:14.120 Well, yeah, it's so true.

01:10:15.280 It's so often like I always talk with guys about how crazy it is,

01:10:21.480 how hard it is to pass information on from one generation to the next,

01:10:25.120 even though they're right there.

01:10:26.320 It's like, you know, it doesn't feel successfully residual when you teach your kids.

01:10:34.360 They learn the same thing you learned, and then you're dead.

01:10:36.420 You know, it seems like we get caught in this bad repetition.

01:10:43.100 It doesn't hurt when the schools are so bad, too,

01:10:44.940 and it's hard to learn anything, as I know, from teaching.

01:10:48.660 Yeah.

01:10:50.500 But, yeah, to have an extension where you're like,

01:10:52.980 wow, I'm going to be able to really keep this information.

01:10:54.860 Are there certain, like, ethnicities or gender?

01:11:03.420 Who's your clientele right now, kind of, or who has it been?

01:11:06.800 And what has that looked like, changing over time or not changing?

01:11:10.960 Well, of course, we will take anybody, just like a hospital.

01:11:12.960 We're not going to send someone away because we don't like the look of you

01:11:15.900 or your religion or whatever.

01:11:17.280 Right, right.

01:11:18.000 But, yeah, we do tend to skew male right now,

01:11:21.740 and there's some discussion about why is that,

01:11:24.100 and you can have kind of speculations,

01:11:26.060 well, maybe it's an evolutionary thing that traditionally males have been the ones

01:11:30.060 doing the hunter-gatherers to go out there and get the food,

01:11:32.180 while the women kind of protect things at the home or whatever.

01:11:34.280 Maybe, I don't know, that's kind of a possible explanation.

01:11:36.420 Yeah, or that are a lot of archetypes.

01:11:38.200 What is archetypes?

01:11:39.940 Yeah.

01:11:40.660 A lot of our, I think it's archetypes,

01:11:43.140 have been, like, males that are, like, the, you know,

01:11:47.380 and so maybe they've been a lot of the explorers over history,

01:11:50.480 and even though now it's changing some,

01:11:52.380 like they have, like, She-Hulk is coming out, I think.

01:11:54.420 Yeah, I'm looking forward to that.

01:11:55.700 But so now I think maybe that process might be getting more involved

01:11:58.860 in women's heads, you know, and female brains.

01:12:00.740 Exactly. It's changing, but it's still,

01:12:02.240 I think there is still that aspect there.

01:12:03.700 Right. So, okay, so it's men.

01:12:05.340 That might be part of it, but we're seeing,

01:12:07.200 so we're, like, 70-something percent male right now,

01:12:09.220 but we're also seeing more families signing up as a whole,

01:12:11.340 which is great because the idea of coming back with your family

01:12:13.620 is obviously even more appealing than being solo.

01:12:15.780 Yeah.

01:12:16.160 So that's one aspect.

01:12:17.660 We tend to find that our members tend to be

01:12:19.960 more highly educated than the average,

01:12:21.980 and I think that's natural because to think about these ideas in depth

01:12:24.940 and to go through the details and figure it out,

01:12:26.860 it's more likely to be someone who's more educated.

01:12:29.600 Yeah, I've never thought, I mean, I hadn't thought much about it.

01:12:31.700 It's not necessary.

01:12:33.960 But again, oh, I guess in terms of people's industry,

01:12:38.840 we definitely have a lot of people from the computer industry.

01:12:41.260 I think there's a reason why we have a lot of people from computers,

01:12:44.360 which is, if you think about it,

01:12:46.520 people who deal with computers deal with really complex problems,

01:12:49.900 millions of lines of code.

01:12:51.740 These things, most people look at and go,

01:12:53.140 how the heck are we going to deal with this?

01:12:55.140 It's impossible.

01:12:56.040 But they're used to hacking the system, hacking the problem, right?

01:12:58.380 They break it down into smaller components.

01:13:00.360 And if you think about the body and the aging body

01:13:02.460 and repairing the brain, that's a massively complex problem.

01:13:05.400 Most people are going to say, oh, that's impossible.

01:13:07.200 But someone who deals with computers is going to say, no, it's not.

01:13:09.300 We've just got to break it down into smaller components.

01:13:11.260 We're going to hack the problem until we've solved it.

01:13:13.460 So I think it's pretty natural that we get people from that area in particular.

01:13:17.700 And that's so interesting.

01:13:19.480 I'm glad those people are going, we're going to need those people.

01:13:22.440 And what, are their ethnicities?

01:13:24.100 Is it more, is it like a, I guess, wealthier people can maybe afford it.

01:13:27.860 But especially when you say that life insurance can be part of it,

01:13:31.280 that's a huge, I mean.

01:13:32.440 That makes a big difference.

01:13:33.340 Yeah, because do you want to leave, especially if you got like kind of a shitty kid,

01:13:38.300 do you want to leave your money to your shitty kid, dude, who's not doing much,

01:13:42.800 who's doing a lot of, you know, who's still playing like a lot of like pickup sports or whatever.

01:13:48.920 And he's like 45 and he's living at the house and whatever.

01:13:51.380 Or do you want to say, yeah, get a job and I'm going to get, I'm going to come back and make sure you have a job.

01:14:00.140 It's interesting, man.

01:14:01.620 Yeah, but no, as you said earlier, we do encourage people to provide for their family as well.

01:14:05.760 Because if you don't, if you put everything into the chiropreservation fund, there's an incentive for,

01:14:10.700 I mean, it's amazing how bad families are.

01:14:12.420 Once you're legally dead, they turn into vultures in many cases.

01:14:15.860 It's pretty sad.

01:14:17.360 And you'd say, oh no, my family would never do that.

01:14:19.060 Well, man, we've seen it too often.

01:14:20.880 They'll actually try and take the funds you've dedicated for, you know, your own possible survival.

01:14:24.160 Really? Have you guys had to go to any court cases or whatever to...

01:14:26.440 Yes, we have a number of times.

01:14:27.760 And we will do that.

01:14:28.540 We're very, we're absolute about protecting our members' rights.

01:14:31.580 So we've had relatives try to take people out of chiropreservation, try to block it.

01:14:35.680 And we have.

01:14:36.420 We've gone to court a number of times to protect the rights.

01:14:38.600 So try to provide for them, you know, separately, unless you really hate the kid and don't want to do it.

01:14:43.200 But yeah, provide for them separately,

01:14:46.340 preferably with a separate policy to make it even less complicated.

01:14:49.060 I love Matt.

01:14:49.740 This is cool, man.

01:14:50.760 And why, why, how do we know that you guys will be able to stay around?

01:14:57.240 Like, I guess we don't.

01:14:59.260 Great question.

01:14:59.920 I actually, you know, I take that question very seriously.

01:15:03.260 People are really interested.

01:15:04.220 You can go to our website, alcor.org, go to the Cryonics magazine,

01:15:07.740 and look for a two-part article I wrote on this very topic.

01:15:11.020 How, what was the title?

01:15:12.180 How to sustain an organization for more than a century.

01:15:14.300 And we'll put a link in that, in the, in the episode.

01:15:17.580 We'll put it in the episode information, guys.

01:15:19.660 But yeah, it's just, because, yeah, I guess that would be some people's question.

01:15:22.460 Because even like, I remember we went to Pizza Hut when I was young.

01:15:25.000 Pizza, I don't know if they have it in your country, but they have a place here, it's called Pizza Hut.

01:15:29.080 And when I was young, it was like a nice sit-down restaurant.

01:15:32.480 We'd go in there, people were nice.

01:15:34.400 And now it's like barely even, you know, it's not as good anymore.

01:15:38.000 And there's just like a bunch of brothers fighting outside all the time.

01:15:41.380 So it's not the same.

01:15:41.700 I like the way you say, your country, like England is mine.

01:15:44.440 All of England is mine.

01:15:46.100 I'm actually more American than English at this point.

01:15:48.080 So I've been here since 87.

01:15:48.740 Do you feel that way?

01:15:49.520 Yeah, yeah.

01:15:50.060 I think we've had three British people.

01:15:51.680 And we've had you, Michael Bisping, and Robbie Williams, I think, are our three Brits.

01:15:58.680 Pretty cool.

01:15:59.640 Pretty cool client.

01:16:01.420 Pretty cool group.

01:16:04.000 Anyway, sorry to go back to it.

01:16:05.320 Sorry.

01:16:05.800 No, I almost lost the train of thought, too.

01:16:08.000 But so no, so I've written on this because it's a really important topic.

01:16:10.900 And it's a reasonable concern.

01:16:12.500 If you look at most companies, they don't tend to last that long.

01:16:15.820 It's a little tricky if you look at the numbers because they often merge.

01:16:18.280 They don't necessarily die.

01:16:19.200 They kind of merge into other companies.

01:16:20.800 But still, most for-profit companies, you can think of exceptions, but most of them don't

01:16:24.380 last more than a few decades.

01:16:25.620 And small businesses don't last more than a few years at all in general.

01:16:29.340 So yeah, I did some research on that.

01:16:31.640 And what you find is that most of the really long-lived organizations in history tend to be either

01:16:36.560 religious organizations, governmental institutions, or educational institutions.

01:16:40.860 Now, there are exceptions.

01:16:41.820 In Japan, they actually have a number of thousand-year-plus companies.

01:16:45.540 And they're almost all very tightly held family-run businesses.

01:16:49.020 I think that the longest-lived one was, what, 1,400 and some years old.

01:16:52.620 Dang.

01:16:53.680 And it built temples or something.

01:16:55.880 And then during some massive war, there were no temples to build.

01:16:58.260 It built coffins for a while instead.

01:17:00.140 So it was a little bit flexible.

01:17:01.900 But generally, you know, obviously, I went, for instance, I went to Oxford University,

01:17:05.600 which is the second oldest university in the world.

01:17:07.300 Yeah, I walked over there one time, walked by it.

01:17:09.100 It's cool.

01:17:09.680 Do you see the gardens?

01:17:10.700 Yeah, it's beautiful, dude.

01:17:11.820 Blew my mind.

01:17:12.760 But that's been around for half a millennium.

01:17:14.360 So that's a long time, right?

01:17:15.580 I think the oldest one is the University of Seville in Spain.

01:17:19.640 So they can survive a long time.

01:17:21.620 Obviously, the Vatican's been around for a long time, other religious organizations.

01:17:25.840 So non-profits kind of – the thing about for-profit companies, which I'm perfectly fine with,

01:17:32.640 but they have to – especially public ones, they have to answer to shareholders,

01:17:35.500 and they think about short-term profits and so on.

01:17:37.740 If you're really long-term, you really want to be a non-profit because you don't have to worry about short –

01:17:41.200 you have to make money, but you have to make more than you spend, obviously.

01:17:44.120 Just because you're a non-profit doesn't mean you can lose money because you go out of existence.

01:17:47.620 Right, but you don't have to have – like, you don't have to meet certain huge goals.

01:17:50.740 You don't have to appease shareholders.

01:17:53.440 You can just be – you know, do your best and stay alive.

01:17:56.020 Yeah, you can optimize for the long-term rather than the short-term.

01:17:58.580 And you guys are almost like a school and a bit of a religion in a way that –

01:18:02.700 I wouldn't want to say that, but only in the sense that –

01:18:05.920 Or a bit of a belief that people want to explore.

01:18:09.760 Yeah.

01:18:10.380 That's what I mean.

01:18:10.940 Only in the sense that we're thinking about some pretty profound stuff in that sense.

01:18:14.540 Yeah, that's a good point.

01:18:15.540 Yeah.

01:18:16.240 But we do – there's all kinds of things we do to survive for the long-term,

01:18:19.220 and some of this is unique to us.

01:18:20.700 So I mentioned earlier the Patient Care Trust Fund,

01:18:23.000 where when you pay the fee for this, a big chunk of it goes into a separate fund

01:18:25.960 that can't be touched for any operations, only for maintaining patients.

01:18:29.860 And that is maintained by a separate board of trustees.

01:18:32.400 There's a strict rule you can never draw more than 2% a year.

01:18:34.840 So even if the market is crappy for a long period of time, we can ride that out.

01:18:39.940 We have an endowment fund, just like universities, which is fairly modest right now.

01:18:43.140 It's just a few million, but hopefully that will build up,

01:18:44.800 and that will pay a steady income to the operations.

01:18:48.220 We have a board of directors that they're not paid.

01:18:51.180 It's kind of self-perpetuating, so they can't be voted out by people who are hostile,

01:18:55.120 which can happen in small organizations.

01:18:56.280 Oh, yeah, totally.

01:18:57.060 You get voted out by outsiders.

01:18:58.860 We do a lot of different things to really protect ourselves for the long term.

01:19:01.980 And we're in our 51st year right now,

01:19:04.160 so we've been around for over half a century, as it is at this point.

01:19:07.020 That's incredible.

01:19:08.620 Yeah, it's really, really, it's just, man, the whole thing is really interesting to me.

01:19:12.120 So how would we bring people back?

01:19:14.940 I think that's got to be the big question now.

01:19:18.120 Yeah, actually.

01:19:18.720 What's going to happen there, Maxie?

01:19:20.780 Well.

01:19:21.260 What are we doing, okay?

01:19:22.680 The time has come.

01:19:24.140 You guys get the email from whoever it is.

01:19:26.760 You know, Neil deGrasse Tyson or whatever emails you and tells you,

01:19:31.440 hey, Maxie, we got everybody.

01:19:33.020 Let's bring them out, you know?

01:19:34.700 Let's do a big thaw or whatever.

01:19:36.740 Let's cook, you know?

01:19:37.800 Let's do a barbecue, you know?

01:19:40.020 Well, the opposite of a barbecue.

01:19:41.240 Well, not quite a barbecue.

01:19:41.960 Yeah, let's do it.

01:19:42.540 A slow roast.

01:19:43.580 A slow roast, okay.

01:19:44.680 What happens?

01:19:45.460 How do we do it, Max?

01:19:47.180 I don't know.

01:19:48.340 I don't know is the first answer, right?

01:19:50.280 Because, again, we can't forecast specific technologies in the future.

01:19:53.860 I'll do a little bit better than in a second.

01:19:55.120 But just to make the point that if you're kind of like asking me, let's say we're in 1890,

01:19:58.660 and you said, okay, Max, how are we going to put someone on the moon and when?

01:20:01.460 It's like, how the hell do I know that?

01:20:03.180 I've got to invent rockets that we haven't designed yet, life support systems, computer systems.

01:20:07.620 Now, we know it's possible in principle.

01:20:09.580 It doesn't violate any physical law, and that's the point that we're making.

01:20:12.160 There's nothing impossible about this.

01:20:13.600 But how do I know exactly how?

01:20:14.940 I don't.

01:20:15.120 But given that, okay, we can point to a number of lines of evidence.

01:20:19.660 First of all, I already mentioned we're growing organs in the lab,

01:20:21.720 so we know that we can actually get control of human biology more and more,

01:20:24.600 and we should better regenerate organs and tissues.

01:20:27.020 And that'll be a big thing in the coming years, people regrowing organs.

01:20:30.160 Of course.

01:20:30.660 I mean, if they can do that, if they can regrow tissue, that's a huge part of you guys' deal.

01:20:35.580 Yeah.

01:20:35.880 That's a huge part of it.

01:20:37.000 They're making pigs back.

01:20:38.180 They're bringing big pigs back.

01:20:39.780 But the most critical thing, of course, is repairing the brain.

01:20:43.000 That's the most important part.

01:20:44.000 That's where we live.

01:20:45.320 So for that, we may need, well, first of all,

01:20:47.540 there may be a point where we get so good at preserving people that we do very little damage.

01:20:51.320 Now, that means we can bring people back with much less advanced technology.

01:20:54.720 But for our existing patients, where there is considerable damage,

01:20:57.140 there's often some ice formation that we haven't entirely prevented.

01:20:59.800 Oh, yeah.

01:21:00.140 There's all kinds of damage.

01:21:01.420 That's going to take some advanced technology, probably nanotechnology.

01:21:05.020 I don't know if you're familiar with nanotechnology.

01:21:06.480 It's something that people hear the word a lot but don't understand very well.

01:21:11.200 I just saw an article the other day about how they were using DNA to go inside of a body to detect something.

01:21:18.060 They made a nanotechnology out of DNA and were using it inside of a body.

01:21:21.840 That's kind of a biological form of – nanotechnology comes in different forms.

01:21:25.460 So nanotechnology can be the biological form, like you're talking about,

01:21:28.000 or it could be more of a mechanical form.

01:21:29.500 Basically, the definition of it is from the nanoprephics, meaning a billionth of a meter.

01:21:34.440 So you've got meter-length objects.

01:21:37.380 You've got things that are one micrometers, incredibly tiny, tiny machines.

01:21:41.540 People have built actually a functioning automobile that you have to have a microscope to see.

01:21:45.020 It's so small.

01:21:45.720 And we're talking about a thousand times smaller than that.

01:21:48.200 So devices that – we've evolved these devices naturally.

01:21:51.160 Obviously, they're inside our cells.

01:21:52.580 But we're talking about actually designing devices that could go inside your cells.

01:21:55.780 Can we go right here?

01:21:56.780 Yeah, nanobots running through your body.

01:21:58.080 There you go.

01:21:58.400 So they could be artificial blood cells.

01:22:01.080 So you could actually – robot fetus, who's an expert in this area,

01:22:03.980 designed what he called risperocytes, where you could pump in all this extra oxygen.

01:22:07.780 You could hold your breath for like an hour or something.

01:22:09.780 Wow, because the nanobots will be able to carry out oxygen with them maybe.

01:22:12.520 Yeah, that's a very simple example.

01:22:13.880 But you can actually – devices that go in there could find deposits of fat in the arteries

01:22:17.660 and slice that off, go inside cells, cut out all the cancer very specifically,

01:22:21.680 take out the plaques that might be causing Alzheimer's disease, repair age-related damage.

01:22:26.400 So basically, this is like a very advanced technology, which is on the drawing board.

01:22:30.440 And fetus has actually a book on this right now that we know is possible

01:22:34.200 because it doesn't violate physical laws.

01:22:35.760 It's not like time travel.

01:22:36.980 It's just a matter of developing it.

01:22:38.820 Right.

01:22:38.900 It's the same thing that goes back to when you said,

01:22:40.640 well, how would we get to the moon from somebody in the 1890s or whatever?

01:22:43.420 And they're like, well, somebody who could look ahead at that point and say,

01:22:47.640 it's possible because it doesn't – getting there wouldn't really defy any physical laws.

01:22:52.500 But not everybody got that point.

01:22:53.760 I mean –

01:22:54.020 Right.

01:22:54.260 No, of course not.

01:22:54.860 No, I'm sure if you had told me, I'd have been like, you're out of here.

01:22:56.860 Like the New York Times – this is hilarious.

01:22:58.860 The New York Times in the – I think it was the late 40s or the 50s maybe,

01:23:02.780 they kind of dismissed the idea of space travel because you can't move in space

01:23:06.580 because there's nothing to push against.

01:23:07.780 It's like, do not understand Newton's laws of action and reaction.

01:23:11.540 So that was pretty stupid.

01:23:13.100 The British Astronomer Royal, a guy you know who's physics,

01:23:16.440 in 1959, 10 years before he landed on the moon,

01:23:19.260 says that this idea is ludicrous.

01:23:20.720 We'll never fly in space.

01:23:22.340 This was the Astronomer Royal.

01:23:24.340 So when people say that something's impossible, always ask them, you know,

01:23:28.500 why do you think it's impossible?

01:23:30.680 Because people – if they can't imagine something, they think it's impossible,

01:23:33.420 which is a pretty poor argument.

01:23:34.980 Just because their lack of imagination doesn't mean it's not possible.

01:23:37.980 And that usually is.

01:23:38.720 It's usually lack of – argument from lack of imagination.

01:23:41.520 They need to better show that it actually violates physical laws.

01:23:44.640 Like right now, as far as we can tell, given basic physics,

01:23:47.780 we're never going to have backwards time travel.

01:23:49.620 You can have forwards time travel by going very fast towards the speed of light

01:23:52.740 and, you know, your zone of reference changes.

01:23:55.500 And so if you came back –

01:23:56.320 Yeah, if you want to get out of a marriage or whatever.

01:23:58.120 But you can't go back in time.

01:24:00.600 As far as we can tell, that probably isn't possible.

01:24:02.840 But we're not talking about violating physical laws.

01:24:04.820 We're talking about what we're already seeing,

01:24:06.520 which is the development of science and technology,

01:24:08.200 the way it inevitably keeps developing on a finer and finer level.

01:24:11.620 Just a projection of that.

01:24:13.280 How long it will take, we can't really say.

01:24:14.960 I'm guessing 50 to 150 years, very vaguely.

01:24:17.840 But it seems like a good bet.

01:24:20.060 Right.

01:24:20.780 It's – look.

01:24:21.480 There's nothing to lose, basically.

01:24:22.900 Yeah.

01:24:23.340 The most – I do my bookies sometimes.

01:24:25.380 But for me, this legitimately seems like a good bet.

01:24:28.160 It's like –

01:24:29.560 It just costs a little bit.

01:24:30.900 But what –

01:24:31.360 It's not that crazy, though.

01:24:32.940 If you're dead, what are you going to do with the money anyway?

01:24:34.820 And it's – that's not – yes, it's a lot of money.

01:24:37.200 But when people are buying a lot of the shit that they're buying these days,

01:24:40.680 it's not that – it's not that unrealistic.

01:24:43.140 And then also, if you got to come back,

01:24:45.420 and if you didn't like some people and they didn't do it,

01:24:47.840 then they wouldn't be there, which would be cool.

01:24:49.560 Right.

01:24:49.780 But what about this?

01:24:50.520 Outlive your enemies.

01:24:51.360 Yeah.

01:24:51.900 Outlive your enemies, right?

01:24:53.320 Yeah.

01:24:53.740 But what about the brain?

01:24:54.820 So what would have to happen with the brain?

01:24:56.780 Because – or what's happening now with the thawing out or the freezing?

01:25:02.340 What's happening with the cells that's not there yet 100%?

01:25:05.080 Well, like I said, with a lot of tissues,

01:25:09.200 we can actually cryopreserve them and bring them back perfectly well.

01:25:13.580 The problem is, as I kind of mentioned earlier,

01:25:15.380 the biggest problem right now is in reversing the process

01:25:18.120 is the larger the tissue – the larger the mass of tissue,

01:25:21.160 the harder it is to bring them back

01:25:22.760 because the problem is actually the rate of rewarming.

01:25:25.460 You can cool very slowly, but you have to rewarm very rapidly.

01:25:28.580 And I won't get too much into the technical details,

01:25:30.200 but it might sound weird.

01:25:31.600 Kind of flash fry them.

01:25:33.220 It's kind of – yeah, in a way.

01:25:34.640 Well, the problem is the ice can actually form as you warm up,

01:25:37.620 which might sound weird.

01:25:38.400 How could ice form as you warm up?

01:25:39.600 But it actually can.

01:25:40.320 It's called recrystallization.

01:25:42.120 And to avoid that, you have to rewarm very rapidly.

01:25:44.800 It could be like several degrees per second.

01:25:46.680 And for, you know, like skin, which is thin, you can do that, right?

01:25:49.820 Even heart valves and corneas.

01:25:51.420 But when you're talking like a kidney or a brain or a whole organism,

01:25:54.460 that's pretty tricky.

01:25:55.800 And so there's a research into this right now.

01:25:57.400 There's all kinds of different ways of doing that.

01:25:58.820 But right now we can't do it fast enough.

01:26:00.640 That's why we can't bring people back today.

01:26:02.260 So people will say, well, what you're saying is stupid

01:26:04.440 because have you ever brought anybody back?

01:26:06.060 Well, no, of course we haven't.

01:26:06.920 That's not the point.

01:26:07.820 And we don't have to today.

01:26:09.520 Because when you're cryopreserved, you can wait for as long as it takes.

01:26:12.160 You're not getting any worse.

01:26:14.100 Yeah.

01:26:14.980 Dude, so you almost need something that's going to be able to reheat the center

01:26:18.220 and the outside at the exact same kind of rate, kind of.

01:26:21.320 Yeah.

01:26:21.980 And there's all kinds of – actually just at the conference we had recently,

01:26:24.380 I had a top researcher who talked about some of the main methodologies

01:26:26.860 of radiofrequency warming and nanowarming.

01:26:29.260 There's all kinds of methods that are being investigated today.

01:26:32.120 Do you believe – so you must obviously believe in that

01:26:34.300 whether we have so much more to learn that we're going to advance.

01:26:39.880 Oh, I think we're just getting started.

01:26:41.280 I mean, people often in history – it's funny.

01:26:43.300 If you look back at some history books, you find people saying

01:26:45.200 that we've learned everything there is to know.

01:26:47.200 Even like 20 years ago, there was this guy – what's his name?

01:26:49.600 John Horgan or something?

01:26:51.120 The End of Physics is his book.

01:26:52.760 Wow.

01:26:53.120 Seriously, guy?

01:26:55.040 First of all, we have integrated general relativity and quantum mechanics.

01:26:57.400 They won't work together.

01:26:58.540 Physics is obviously not correct at all.

01:27:00.800 I'm sure a lot of juniors in high school were stoked, though.

01:27:03.680 Yeah.

01:27:04.040 Nothing more to learn.

01:27:05.000 Yeah.

01:27:05.360 But people have said that for a long time.

01:27:06.720 And, you know, you think about Sir Isaac Newton who created the laws of motion.

01:27:10.320 Yeah, the apple.

01:27:11.060 You can predict, you know, how you throw a football or how planets move.

01:27:14.680 That's pretty amazing.

01:27:15.520 Obviously, that's the final word, right?

01:27:16.940 No.

01:27:17.640 Einstein came along and said, well, that's not really correct.

01:27:20.180 So, yeah, I think we have a huge amount to learn.

01:27:22.300 We don't even understand dark matter and what most of the universe consists of.

01:27:26.320 You know, people get stuck in their little contemporary framework and think, well, what else can there be?

01:27:31.040 I think we'll look back in 100,000 years and say, how primitive we were.

01:27:35.400 What primitive, stupid creatures we were back then.

01:27:37.500 And just like we would look back on cave people and kind of think, oh, poor bastards.

01:27:40.720 They don't know what the hell we were doing back then.

01:27:42.580 Yeah.

01:27:43.000 No, I love the idea of challenging your own imagination.

01:27:47.440 Like just because you can't imagine it going beyond even your own imagination, the walls of your own imagination.

01:27:56.620 That's fascinating to me.

01:27:57.840 Here's one thing that actually excites me about the future.

01:27:59.880 People often say, well, what do you want to do when you come back?

01:28:02.180 And obviously, it'll depend on what there is to do, right?

01:28:04.460 There'll be a lot of stuff I haven't even conceived of.

01:28:06.560 But one thing that excites me is because I personally am not a big fan of the politics of the world right today.

01:28:12.700 I think our societies are doing things really badly in a lot of ways.

01:28:16.200 We've gone in the wrong direction.

01:28:17.320 I think there's far much central control on things, too much authoritarianism, too many people afraid of things and looking to governments and authorities to solve their problems.

01:28:24.760 Yeah, the worst.

01:28:25.600 I want to get – I like to – just like people a few centuries ago left Europe to escape oppression and come to America and start fresh with a freer society.

01:28:32.580 I think America's gone in the wrong direction, frankly.

01:28:35.160 And I look forward to getting off this freaking planet and starting new colonies, new societies with new rules where we can start fresh with all these huge bureaucracies and politicians.

01:28:43.340 Start with a new constitution better than the one we had, which didn't last too long, unfortunately.

01:28:48.620 To me, that's an exciting prospect because we can't do it here on Earth.

01:28:51.660 Everything is controlled by somebody on Earth.

01:28:53.680 But getting off the planet, that's a whole new ballgame.

01:28:55.980 Man, it's so funny because I was just talking a few weeks ago about like I wish like America, we could go to a new America kind of like.

01:29:05.040 But now – and then my thought got to – first, that's what I imagined.

01:29:11.020 Man, wouldn't it be cool if we could sail off to a new America, you know?

01:29:13.700 But there isn't anymore.

01:29:14.660 Right.

01:29:14.840 So then my imagination kind of shut down at that point.

01:29:18.780 And it was like, oh, we can't do it.

01:29:20.480 But then here you are saying, well, what if the new America is out into the – you know, it's like –

01:29:25.340 There's a lot of space out there.

01:29:26.320 There's no lack of space.

01:29:27.280 There's huge resources.

01:29:29.020 Like a single asteroid can have millions of tons of carbon and nitrogen and all kinds of materials that we can use.

01:29:35.360 There's amazing amounts of stuff out there.

01:29:36.620 There's no lack of resources.

01:29:37.880 People are saying, oh, we're running out of resources.

01:29:39.900 They don't know what they're talking about.

01:29:41.280 This is a whole other issue because a whole other area of this, of course, is what if there are too many people in the future?

01:29:45.980 That's a whole other thing that I think people don't think clearly about.

01:29:49.520 But once you're in space, there's just massive amounts of resources.

01:29:52.160 That's where solar power actually will work because you have direct sun power 100% of the time, whereas even in Arizona, it doesn't necessarily work all the time.

01:30:00.840 So, yeah, I think getting into space really takes away those boundaries of possibility.

01:30:04.260 And we can try all kinds of new social experiments.

01:30:07.160 If you want your little totalitarian or socialist society, whatever you want, fine, you can have it.

01:30:12.260 Just don't impose it on me.

01:30:13.520 I want to have my much more free society over here.

01:30:15.660 If you want your Mormon society there, fine.

01:30:18.800 Everybody can have their own society if they like.

01:30:21.140 Yeah, dude, we need to build like an ark and just figure it out.

01:30:26.200 Why are you guys stationed?

01:30:27.940 You guys are based out of, Alcor is based out of?

01:30:30.540 Scottsdale, Arizona.

01:30:31.520 Scottsdale, Arizona.

01:30:32.700 Which might seem kind of funny that we're in a really hot place.

01:30:35.080 That's a good point.

01:30:36.400 It's going to cost you more.

01:30:37.100 One of the hardest places.

01:30:37.800 It doesn't actually make any difference.

01:30:39.740 But it's symbolically kind of appropriate because we're in the Phoenix area.

01:30:43.580 And, of course, the Phoenix is the symbol of rising from the ashes and returning to life.

01:30:46.960 So it's kind of symbolically appropriate.

01:30:49.200 We didn't really choose it for that reason.

01:30:50.700 But when we were actually based in California, we had the Phoenix as our logo.

01:30:53.960 Now we can't do that because it's confusing for the city of Phoenix.

01:30:56.140 Oh, yeah.

01:30:57.260 But there's two main reasons why we're there.

01:30:59.500 And, you know, the heat actually doesn't make any difference.

01:31:00.960 Once you're in our containers, which we call Dewar's, after Sir James Dewar, the metal, basically very large, expensive thermos flasks is what your patients are in.

01:31:07.980 It doesn't really matter what the temperature is.

01:31:09.240 We could actually put them outside in the heat and it wouldn't make a difference.

01:31:11.460 But like you would see at a brewery, really.

01:31:13.200 Exactly.

01:31:13.660 Yeah.

01:31:13.880 Very, very similar.

01:31:15.180 So the two main reasons are, and this will come back to a point I made earlier, one of which is environmental stability.

01:31:21.640 We used to be in Riverside and Fullerton area.

01:31:23.780 Well, there's a huge bloody earthquake fault right here.

01:31:26.540 So, you know, storing patients long-term near a massive earthquake fault doesn't seem like the best idea in the world.

01:31:32.580 Yeah, it's a really, yeah, even I wouldn't do that.

01:31:35.540 I wouldn't do it.

01:31:36.760 Whereas where we are in that area, we don't really have earthquakes.

01:31:40.320 We can occasionally feel aftershocks from California.

01:31:42.920 Nobody's ever died in an earthquake in Arizona.

01:31:44.940 We don't have typhoons or any kind of weather events.

01:31:48.000 All we have to do is the occasional dust storm going through.

01:31:50.240 So it's pretty stable.

01:31:51.480 But another major reason is we had a bad time in California, and today, because it's much worse in terms of the bureaucrats here.

01:31:58.160 But in the Riverside area, we had some major problems.

01:32:01.880 We went through major legal battles where we were accused of murdering somebody by the Riverside coroner.

01:32:07.560 The health department then jumped on us and said what we were doing was illegal because there was no box on the stupid form to check.

01:32:12.540 And we had to go through a whole lot of legal battles, which we won all of.

01:32:15.520 But eventually we said, the hell with this, and moved out to Arizona.

01:32:18.560 Yeah, it was quite a time, like in 1980.

01:32:22.320 They accused you of murdering someone.

01:32:23.680 Yeah, yeah.

01:32:24.120 It was 1988.

01:32:25.160 This is the Dora Kent case.

01:32:26.120 You can read all about it on the website.

01:32:28.440 This was the coroner who, this guy loved to get publicity.

01:32:32.080 This was the same guy who ordered Liberace's body to be exhumed so that he could prove that he died of AIDS.

01:32:35.960 Like, dude, do you really need to do that?

01:32:37.980 Yeah, what a pervert.

01:32:38.700 If you don't know Liberace died of AIDS, you're an idiot.

01:32:41.780 So he liked to get in the newspapers.

01:32:43.080 I think he looked on us and saw a really small organization that he could crush and get his face in the papers.

01:32:48.100 And didn't realize what he was getting into.

01:32:50.120 And so what happened was, one of our members, his mother, who was 83 years old, I think, and she was dying.

01:32:56.800 We took her into the building, which we would never do anymore for this reason.

01:33:01.260 And it took a couple of days.

01:33:03.020 And she, you know, her body gave her.

01:33:04.680 Expired there.

01:33:05.000 Yeah.

01:33:05.280 And she was declared legally dead.

01:33:07.080 And then sometime after that, everything was fine.

01:33:09.440 We registered the death and everything and did the procedure.

01:33:12.600 And it was, I don't know, I think it was a couple of weeks later that they suddenly decided to look at that and said, well, let's take a look at this.

01:33:18.340 And they got, I guess they had some kind of samples and they said there was barbiturates in their bloodstream.

01:33:21.660 And they said, well, yeah, that's because that's what we do first thing to stop awareness returning, right?

01:33:25.340 After she's legally dead.

01:33:27.260 Now we use propofol instead, but it's basically the same thing.

01:33:30.180 It's not like we killed her with that.

01:33:31.420 Plus, what the hell is the motive for the son who has the money killing his mother who has no money?

01:33:35.580 I mean, there's no motive.

01:33:36.660 Yeah.

01:33:37.000 She's 83 years old.

01:33:38.060 I mean, do you think she's healthy?

01:33:39.280 It didn't make any sense.

01:33:41.360 Then they, you can find this actually.

01:33:43.320 Bring up Dora Kent.

01:33:44.420 Come on, help me out here.

01:33:45.280 You can find it in the LA Times.

01:33:46.540 There's lots of stuff on that.

01:33:48.100 They accused us of stealing stuff from UCLA because they didn't bother to ask for our receipts.

01:33:52.040 All these wild accusations.

01:33:53.920 She looks like Groucho Marx a little bit.

01:33:56.280 Or in that picture.

01:33:57.400 So, yeah, that's a good story.

01:33:58.380 That kind of tells you everything that happened there.

01:34:00.580 So, you know, it almost killed us because we didn't really have any money at the time,

01:34:03.940 only because of a couple of our members who paid for the legal bills that we survived this.

01:34:08.020 Then the health department, this is typical bureaucracy,

01:34:09.940 the health department then came along and said,

01:34:11.880 well, what you're doing is illegal.

01:34:14.020 Oh, yeah.

01:34:14.580 Why?

01:34:15.220 Well, because there's two boxes.

01:34:16.460 There's a cremation box.

01:34:17.760 There's a burial box.

01:34:19.200 There's no cryo box.

01:34:20.120 So we said, well, give us a box to check.

01:34:21.700 And they said, no.

01:34:22.980 So it's a catch-22, right?

01:34:24.240 It's illegal because there's no box.

01:34:25.820 And there's no box because it's illegal.

01:34:27.300 It doesn't make any sense.

01:34:28.560 I thought America was a place where things are legal unless it's specifically a law against them.

01:34:32.480 That's kind of the point of the freaking constitution.

01:34:34.480 So we had to get a constitutional attorney, spend a lot more money from our member.

01:34:37.760 And we won again.

01:34:39.300 But this is not the kind of place we wanted to live, really, in the long term.

01:34:42.660 Yeah.

01:34:43.100 Yeah.

01:34:43.420 We're going to have to get into space eventually with the group.

01:34:48.060 So you guys end up over in Scottsdale.

01:34:50.880 What do you guys do?

01:34:52.140 What's the process of keeping the bodies cool?

01:34:55.000 And how long does that take?

01:34:56.340 Like, how is it?

01:34:57.620 What else do you have to do?

01:34:58.760 So you're in there.

01:34:59.400 They're in what?

01:35:00.000 Actually, before we get to that, just to sort of finish that story, the one reason we chose Scottsdale was we had a member who lived in the area and he met with the local politicians.

01:35:08.560 And it turns out, you know, we've had the mayor of Scottsdale open our conferences.

01:35:11.120 We've had a lot of the top council people come do tours of Alcor.

01:35:13.920 And they actually like us there.

01:35:14.960 They boast about, you know, having advanced stuff there.

01:35:17.100 So it's radically different than California.

01:35:19.560 So I just had to put that in there.

01:35:20.860 No, I think it's interesting.

01:35:21.800 I think a lot of that has started to happen.

01:35:23.840 California's gotten so, I don't know what it is.

01:35:26.600 It's gotten so ridiculous that a lot of the creatives have started to want to go to other places and do different things.

01:35:32.580 They are.

01:35:32.680 They're leaving for Arizona, leaving for Austin, for Florida.

01:35:36.980 Okay.

01:35:37.420 So what else were we saying?

01:35:39.300 What we do for the long term.

01:35:40.980 Right.

01:35:41.300 So what kind of, what am I in?

01:35:42.600 If I'm in there, am I in, do I have my hands up or what am I, if I do full body?

01:35:46.520 Oh, we're going to put you in some kind of funny position and make funny.

01:35:48.600 No, no.

01:35:48.900 Now, what happens is once we've finished the surgical procedure, we've washed out the blood and we've done the cool down.

01:35:54.780 Actually, we have an operating table.

01:35:56.280 We actually have a shape to the table to make you kind of cool you down like this.

01:36:00.960 Because we don't want you with your arms sticking out, which makes you hard to put into the container.

01:36:03.200 Taking a lot of room, yeah.

01:36:04.100 So we're going to actually shape you.

01:36:06.200 And then we'll put you in a sleeping bag, a high quality sleeping bag.

01:36:10.000 That's not for your comfort.

01:36:11.180 The reason for that is if we ever have to pull you out and transfer you to another container, the sleeping bag will be drenched with liquid nitrogen.

01:36:17.000 There we go, right there.

01:36:18.020 Yeah, that's the ice bar.

01:36:20.180 That's before we put you in the container.

01:36:22.160 And are you there doing it?

01:36:23.380 Do you help, doctor?

01:36:24.500 Yeah, I usually help out.

01:36:26.140 I'm not a technical person, but I'm usually overseeing and maybe scribing, making notes as to what's happening.

01:36:31.000 So those are the containers.

01:36:32.040 So before we put you in that container you see there, we'll first of all put you in an aluminum pod.

01:36:36.380 Well, first of all, the sleeping bag, as I said, so that soaks up liquid nitrogen in case we have to move you.

01:36:40.240 It stops the temperature rising.

01:36:41.640 Then we encase you in an aluminum pod, which is a good temperature conductor.

01:36:44.620 We open up the roof hatch, which is just down where you can't quite see it there.

01:36:47.540 And then we'll put you in what you can see here.

01:36:49.600 These are the aluminum doers.

01:36:50.960 I mean, the sort of stainless steel doers, which, again, have a vacuum layer.

01:36:54.600 They're just like very large, bloody expensive thermos flasks.

01:36:57.620 So you can touch the outside.

01:36:59.020 They'll just be chilly metal.

01:37:00.000 But inside, it's minus 320 Fahrenheit.

01:37:02.700 Oh, boy.

01:37:04.440 Yeah.

01:37:04.800 We getting in there.

01:37:06.520 In this picture, you can see, here's a fill going on.

01:37:09.100 There's a liquid nitrogen fill.

01:37:10.020 We have a truck pull up the back.

01:37:11.040 It fills them all.

01:37:12.160 I don't know.

01:37:12.480 This is probably a good humid day because we don't usually get this much vapor.

01:37:15.160 But it's great for images.

01:37:16.200 You've got the liquid nitrogen vapor.

01:37:16.880 Oh, yeah.

01:37:17.380 Great for huffing, too.

01:37:18.300 Boy, I'd take a hit off of that whole room.

01:37:21.900 Actually, it would kill you if you breathe too much.

01:37:23.900 Would it really?

01:37:24.440 We have to have a little bit.

01:37:26.200 You can see one on the right, actually.

01:37:27.360 You can see that tube on the right.

01:37:28.660 That's a vent.

01:37:29.540 So we have sensors.

01:37:31.140 So if the oxygen goes down too low because of the liquid nitrogen, it'll automatically go on and suck it out and pump in air because you will actually suffocate if you don't get enough oxygen.

01:37:39.020 Oh, dang.

01:37:39.740 So it's a really controlled environment.

01:37:42.080 How many people do you have stored right now?

01:37:45.200 Let's see.

01:37:45.680 We've added a number just recently.

01:37:46.800 I think we're at 196 patients, human patients, plus something like close to 100 pets.

01:37:52.900 Oh, wow.

01:37:53.660 The pets are coming in.

01:37:54.820 Yeah.

01:37:55.040 My own dog, my own first dog is in the Oscar.

01:37:58.800 Full body or brain?

01:38:00.200 He was a big dog.

01:38:01.120 He was a big doodle.

01:38:01.820 So no, just brain.

01:38:02.640 It would be expensive because he has to do it.

01:38:04.060 It would be almost as expensive as a human if he did the whole body.

01:38:06.480 And since I'm brain-owning myself, why would I do that?

01:38:09.700 So I actually didn't like dogs before we had Oscar.

01:38:12.580 I didn't want to get one.

01:38:13.800 My wife insisted on the dog.

01:38:15.400 She wanted a poodle.

01:38:16.520 I said, I'm not walking a poodle.

01:38:18.540 Yeah, I feel you.

01:38:19.900 I'm not going to be seen walking a poodle.

01:38:21.020 But we agreed on a doodle, which is a good combination.

01:38:25.040 Golden Retriever and Poodle.

01:38:27.080 You loved it, huh?

01:38:27.740 Most popular dogs in Scottsdale now.

01:38:29.740 Yeah.

01:38:30.040 Yeah, same here.

01:38:30.860 They're smart.

01:38:31.580 They're playful.

01:38:32.300 They're a lot of fun.

01:38:34.220 So he actually lasted 15 years, which is a long time for a big dog.

01:38:38.320 But then he's got valley fever and other things, and we had to put him down.

01:38:42.180 But we cryopreserved him.

01:38:43.340 I just learned about valley fever the other day.

01:38:45.340 Yeah.

01:38:45.740 It's such a bizarre thing.

01:38:46.660 It's a weird kind of bacterial thing.

01:38:48.000 I don't think I've ever had it, fortunately.

01:38:49.460 I'd never heard of it until two days ago, and somebody mentioned it.

01:38:52.640 Okay, so we have 196 patients, and people can do body, head, or brain?

01:39:01.240 No, just the whole body.

01:39:02.860 We just say the neuro, but that means basically the brain kept inside the skull, just because

01:39:06.920 it's easier.

01:39:07.560 Okay.

01:39:08.740 And you guys have Ted.

01:39:11.620 The room is always Ted Williams is chronically frozen.

01:39:15.960 Yeah.

01:39:16.500 He was supposed to be private.

01:39:17.780 But when people sign up, they can choose to be private or public, because some people

01:39:21.480 just don't want people to know, because it's considered unusual.

01:39:23.920 And we have some famous people who have signed up, who I can't name.

01:39:26.680 But yeah, Ted Williams was supposed to be private, but there was a big legal battle,

01:39:29.920 because one of his family said he didn't really want to do it, and the other said they did.

01:39:33.340 And so we had to go to court, and it became public.

01:39:35.240 So he's probably our most famous known patient.

01:39:38.280 We actually get people who are big baseball fans come to visit him and to see where he is.

01:39:42.780 And can people do tours of the facility, like guided tours?

01:39:46.200 Absolutely.

01:39:46.520 Yeah, we offer them twice a week, and we can do them by special arrangement.

01:39:49.520 We like to be very open, so you can see the place.

01:39:52.480 We publish case reports to explain what we do in each of the cases, and what went right

01:39:56.320 and what went wrong.

01:39:58.120 Because it's not standard medicine, we think it's very important to have very good feedback

01:40:02.880 on what we do, because I'm going to be in there myself at some point.

01:40:06.180 I don't want to hide anything from anybody, so we're as open as possible to hold ourselves

01:40:10.180 to account and make sure things are working properly.

01:40:13.260 And what about, bring up that Ted Williams?

01:40:15.160 Let me see him.

01:40:17.040 We also have, there's also a public member I can mention, an old friend of mine, Hal Finney,

01:40:21.320 whose name you might not be familiar with, but if you're into cryptocurrencies, you'd know

01:40:24.900 his name.

01:40:25.560 He was the first guy to ever receive a Bitcoin, and some people think that he's the creator,

01:40:29.700 although he always denied that he was.

01:40:31.380 Really?

01:40:31.860 From crypto to cryo, huh?

01:40:33.300 Yeah.

01:40:33.720 There's actually a lot of people interested in both.

01:40:35.380 It's an interesting combination there.

01:40:36.900 I could see that.

01:40:38.500 Wow, that's Ted Williams right there, huh?

01:40:40.900 And y'all just have his brain then, huh?

01:40:44.220 Yeah.

01:40:45.280 Yeah.

01:40:46.420 Dang.

01:40:47.640 He's a pretty handsome guy.

01:40:49.220 I wouldn't be nice.

01:40:49.680 There's actually, there's a novel that came out a couple of years ago.

01:40:51.840 I haven't read it, but it's all about him coming back from being cryopreserved and carrying

01:40:54.800 on in the future.

01:40:55.540 Really?

01:40:56.200 Yeah.

01:40:57.340 Wow.

01:40:58.360 And has there been proper, what, and so once you get the bodies in there, like where is

01:41:05.540 Ted Williams' brain right now?

01:41:08.120 By the way, we don't call them bodies, we call them patients.

01:41:10.680 Okay, sorry.

01:41:11.440 No, it's okay.

01:41:12.160 I just want to say that because in our minds, they are patients.

01:41:14.600 They're just like someone in a long-term coma who we're caring for.

01:41:16.780 So we don't think of his body, they're actually patients.

01:41:19.040 So the patient Ted Williams is in one of the doers.

01:41:21.320 Yeah.

01:41:22.000 Yeah.

01:41:22.600 So with neuropatients, they only take up, you know, as you can imagine, they only

01:41:25.820 take up about a tenth of the volume of a whole body patient.

01:41:28.440 So it's less expensive to store them, which is one reason we can charge less because the

01:41:32.260 long, if you're paying for long-term storage for the, you know, the rent and the insurance

01:41:35.260 and maintenance, obviously it's one tenth of what it is for a whole body patient.

01:41:39.120 Got it.

01:41:39.440 So you're in there with, we can convert the pod that contains one whole body patient

01:41:43.440 with shells and have 10 neuropatients in the same volume.

01:41:46.480 I don't know which one he's in because that's one of our security issues is we don't identify

01:41:49.880 who's in which doer just in case someone has like a really bad enemy and wants to come

01:41:54.720 in and find them.

01:41:55.320 Right, right.

01:41:55.960 It makes it more difficult.

01:41:56.760 But you guys know though, it's not.

01:41:58.640 Yeah.

01:41:58.720 Oh yeah.

01:41:58.960 Oh yeah.

01:41:59.580 Interesting.

01:42:00.100 No, there's a, there's a, the patient is numbered.

01:42:02.300 The, the, the aluminum pod they're in is extensive with the number on there and there's lots

01:42:05.680 of record keeping.

01:42:06.400 We keep that backed up in the cloud and other places.

01:42:08.300 So it's all very secure.

01:42:09.640 Oh good.

01:42:10.000 The room itself is secure as well.

01:42:11.440 Of course, we take it very seriously, patient security because they can't protect themselves.

01:42:15.080 So the whole room has got like metal plates on the walls and we've got security

01:42:18.400 systems, you know, with the resources we have available to us, we take that very seriously.

01:42:22.760 And what if, what do you, so what elements do you need in order to keep the facility maintaining

01:42:29.960 these bodies at the low temperatures?

01:42:32.260 Yeah.

01:42:32.640 So that's a common misconception.

01:42:33.960 As I like to say, there are two things people know about cryonics that are wrong.

01:42:37.240 One is that Walt Disney was, was frozen.

01:42:39.160 He wasn't.

01:42:39.940 Really?

01:42:40.340 No, he wasn't.

01:42:40.980 Oh.

01:42:41.600 He's at Forest Lawn Cemetery.

01:42:42.920 He's buried there.

01:42:44.180 I think what happened was that there was a big cryonics story at the same time that

01:42:47.100 he died and they got mixed up somehow.

01:42:48.660 Plus it's kind of a natural assumption, right?

01:42:50.180 This is a guy who built Tomorrow World and Future Land and it seemed like something he

01:42:53.340 would do, but no.

01:42:54.060 Yeah.

01:42:54.240 You think he just spent the 80K.

01:42:56.900 Well, he could have afforded it.

01:42:57.820 Yeah.

01:42:57.920 It would have been less than that then too.

01:42:59.340 But no, unfortunately not.

01:43:00.180 The other one is people say, well, you guys are so screwed when the power goes out.

01:43:03.240 Like, seriously, you think we haven't thought about that in 50 years?

01:43:07.000 It's like, no, we don't actually need any power to maintain patience at that temperature.

01:43:12.340 We just refill once a week.

01:43:14.560 And that's more often than we need to do with liquid nitrogen.

01:43:16.500 A truck pulls out, we put liquid nitrogen into the containers.

01:43:19.060 That weird as it sounds, that boils off at minus 320 Fahrenheit.

01:43:22.520 No electricity is needed for that at all.

01:43:25.060 So the only power we need is, you know, for our comfort, the air conditioning, because

01:43:28.780 it's in Arizona, for the computers and so on.

01:43:32.440 We do need power for the operating, obviously, for the surgical procedure.

01:43:36.000 And for that, we have a big backup generator outside that will kick in automatically so

01:43:39.180 there's no delay in the surgery.

01:43:40.500 But the patients themselves will not warm up.

01:43:42.840 We could actually go for several months without any liquid nitrogen delivery.

01:43:46.020 Really?

01:43:46.200 Because it takes, it only bores off, it bores for maybe 12 liters a day.

01:43:49.220 And so it will very slowly go down.

01:43:50.820 We've done a test with an empty one, you know, empty of patients.

01:43:53.380 It takes several months to get low down.

01:43:54.900 So we could go for months.

01:43:56.300 And there are many liquid nitrogen suppliers in the area.

01:43:58.500 I think something like seven of them.

01:44:00.340 Yeah.

01:44:00.500 I wonder if you guys ever had like supply chain issues or something like that, that if there

01:44:04.200 was a possibility for you guys to at least have a gap in whatever you would need to

01:44:09.420 keep the bodies preserved.

01:44:10.480 It's extremely unlikely where we are again, because we have so many, you know, we use such a small

01:44:13.860 amount compared to like a chip company, which for their chip fab uses vast amounts of the

01:44:17.840 stuff and other companies use far more.

01:44:19.720 So we're kind of like a side effect.

01:44:21.460 We just use whatever's left over.

01:44:22.800 So it's unlikely.

01:44:24.380 But if there was like World War III and we thought there's going to be a major disruption

01:44:28.100 for more than a couple of months, we could actually go out and buy our own liquid nitrogen

01:44:31.300 plant.

01:44:31.740 It costs us, you know, probably a few hundred thousand.

01:44:34.080 It costs us twice as much per unit to make, but we could do that.

01:44:37.200 You just need power and air to make liquid nitrogen.

01:44:39.640 So it's not really a problem for us.

01:44:41.560 So do you feel like a businessman or do you feel like a explorer?

01:44:49.460 Is that a fair question?

01:44:51.160 Yeah.

01:44:51.560 I mean, I'm currently, I'm not really a businessman.

01:44:54.160 My position right now is ambassador.

01:44:55.720 I'm the guy who comes out and explains what we do.

01:44:57.700 But for almost 10 years, I was the president and CEO.

01:45:00.060 So I kind of ran the organization, but not really a businessman.

01:45:03.160 I'm more, I am, well, I'm a philosopher by training, philosopher and economist by training.

01:45:07.820 I did a lot of work with nonprofits and run other nonprofits, but I don't really think

01:45:11.940 I'm a businessman and such, but I do realize that you have to have an organization that

01:45:16.600 works, of course, obviously.

01:45:18.680 And you have to be able to communicate the ideas.

01:45:21.160 It's not something you can sell as such, because it's not like, call now, limited time, you

01:45:25.800 know, $50 off.

01:45:26.720 That kind of thing is not going to work for cryonics.

01:45:29.320 You know, some people say, you know, there's some people who are cynics and say, oh, this

01:45:32.220 is a scam.

01:45:32.760 It's a get rich quick scheme.

01:45:33.800 And I, I just, it makes me just kind of either laugh or despair when they say that.

01:45:37.880 Cause yeah, this is the hardest thing in the world to sell.

01:45:41.060 Yeah.

01:45:41.280 It's the worst thing to try and choose to get rich quick.

01:45:43.380 You know, that's why after 50 years, we only have like 1500 people sign up for this.

01:45:47.400 You have to explain complex ideas about life and death.

01:45:50.000 People have to think about stuff they don't want to think about.

01:45:51.740 They've got to make all these arrangements.

01:45:53.180 This is the hardest thing in the world to sell people on.

01:45:56.060 So, um, you know, I don't think of myself as selling, but as educating.

01:45:59.520 Uh, I mean, and this is great to be on your show because I get a chance to talk for like

01:46:02.780 an hour or so, because it takes a long time to get through the ideas for people to understand

01:46:06.620 what the hell is this strange idea is about.

01:46:09.400 Yeah.

01:46:09.560 And I don't, and I don't feel sold to, I feel just, that's what I feel a little bit more educated

01:46:13.180 a little bit more like, Hey, what, what if your imagination or your picture of what life

01:46:19.720 is could expand or be different?

01:46:22.980 And that's interesting to me.

01:46:24.540 I can see that, uh, flooding over into different ways that I envision everything.

01:46:29.620 I wish I had more of that in my natural life, kind of that perspective, you know, because

01:46:35.660 it's a lot more of a perspective of possibility than it is a perspective of, um, limits.

01:46:43.460 One thing I would say though, is if you, if you seriously do think this would be an interesting

01:46:46.580 idea, think about it sooner rather than later.

01:46:49.020 Cause don't think, well, I'm not that old now.

01:46:50.540 I can wait, you know, for another few years because things happen.

01:46:53.320 And I see this happen all the time.

01:46:54.640 People put it off and then, you know, we get a call at the last minute, you know, uncle

01:46:58.500 Bob just died.

01:46:59.280 Can, can you still cry and preserve him?

01:47:01.060 Well, no, we can't because the arrangements aren't in place and it's almost, almost impossible

01:47:05.440 to do a last minute case like that.

01:47:06.980 Okay.

01:47:07.140 In special cases, maybe we can, but we don't want to take advantage of the family financially.

01:47:11.280 We want to make sure the person really wanted to do this.

01:47:13.000 There's all the contracts to sign.

01:47:14.200 So it doesn't work that way.

01:47:15.400 You need to do this well in advance, right?

01:47:17.560 This is a choice you got to make to go beyond for the bodies to come back because the science

01:47:23.040 isn't there yet.

01:47:24.300 But as we see, there's clues that it could be getting there.

01:47:28.440 Man, I feel really explained to it.

01:47:29.920 Zach, do you have any other thoughts?

01:47:32.080 I think my final question would be like for Theo, honestly, both of you say it's 30, 22,

01:47:38.540 you come back, it starts.

01:47:40.540 What's the first thing you're doing?

01:47:45.740 Mostly off the waking up.

01:47:47.560 I'd say, when is it?

01:47:49.460 And they'll tell me.

01:47:50.680 And I go, yes, I made it.

01:47:53.800 And I want to take a look at myself.

01:47:55.000 I want to know, I want to have newspapers, but I want to know what's going on.

01:47:58.020 I want to know if my wife is back, if my dog is back, you know, my other friends and just

01:48:03.440 start to figure out what's going on.

01:48:04.980 I think I'd just be ecstatic, actually.

01:48:08.160 It'd probably be the best time of my life that I actually made it.

01:48:10.620 I beat what would be thought of as death and I'm back and I've got all these opportunities.

01:48:14.800 That's my first reaction.

01:48:16.020 And after that, I don't know.

01:48:17.460 It depends on what's possible, right?

01:48:18.600 What's available.

01:48:20.960 Man, it's a great question, man.

01:48:23.980 I'd probably.

01:48:24.820 Let me see.

01:48:30.500 They bring me back.

01:48:32.200 Show me the best movies of the last 1,000 years.

01:48:34.960 Yeah.

01:48:35.360 You'd have a lot of stuff new to watch on Netflix.

01:48:39.080 I'd probably, honestly, the first thing I would do is thank them.

01:48:44.260 Probably take a piss, I bet.

01:48:45.780 Yeah, I think the first thing I'd probably do is take a piss, I bet.

01:48:52.240 You know how good that's going to feel?

01:48:54.740 God.

01:48:55.100 And then I would probably have a lunch or whatever they have then, a new type of lunch, or if

01:49:01.400 they don't even have lunch anymore, I would see if there was anybody who was really old

01:49:04.860 that still knew about lunch, and I would ask them if they knew someplace that was still

01:49:08.860 doing it.

01:49:09.660 It was a good place on whatever planet we're on to go have lunch.

01:49:13.220 Yeah.

01:49:13.580 And then I would feel, yes, I would be like, I did it.

01:49:18.340 I did it.

01:49:19.840 Yeah.

01:49:20.280 Billions, tens of billions didn't make it, and I did.

01:49:22.880 That would be kind of a sad, but good feeling.

01:49:25.520 Yeah.

01:49:25.880 It would be interesting.

01:49:26.700 And it would give you, I mean, the power you would, your own DNA would feel at every

01:49:32.120 molecular level to be back.

01:49:34.680 Yeah.

01:49:35.060 To just have the lights back on.

01:49:37.800 That's fascinating.

01:49:39.720 You know, one thing I might want to just touch on is, because this usually comes from

01:49:43.560 I'm kind of surprised you haven't asked me.

01:49:45.080 It's maybe because you don't share this view.

01:49:46.920 But a lot of people say, well, won't there be too many people when you come back?

01:49:50.180 Aren't we overpopulated?

01:49:51.220 And this isn't going to be a lot worse.

01:49:52.860 And this always kind of makes me chuckle a little bit, because I've studied this stuff

01:49:56.840 for a long time and kept track of it.

01:49:58.520 And what people don't seem to realize is that's not a problem.

01:50:00.900 In fact, we have maybe the opposite problem coming up.

01:50:03.720 You know, fertility globally peaked around 1968 or so.

01:50:06.760 It's been falling ever since.

01:50:08.480 The US is a bit of an exception.

01:50:09.840 We're still growing pretty slowly, though.

01:50:11.800 But, you know, all of Eastern Europe is shrinking.

01:50:14.380 Japan is shrinking.

01:50:15.780 Germany is shrinking.

01:50:17.440 The West of Western Europe is stopping growing and is about to shrink as well.

01:50:21.180 So people are kind of stuck in a 1960s mindset of population growth.

01:50:24.600 Really?

01:50:24.680 The fact is that almost 40% of the world's populations are now stopped growing or starting

01:50:29.480 to shrink.

01:50:30.320 And that's going to get worse as over time goes on.

01:50:32.540 Even Africa, you know, its fertility rates dropped massively.

01:50:35.100 And when they reach a certain level of wealth and women have more opportunities, they stop

01:50:37.800 having children.

01:50:38.400 And so even the UN, which is consistently over-predicted population, even the UN says

01:50:43.000 by about 2080 or the end of the century, global population, not just Western, which will have

01:50:47.580 stopped a lot sooner, global population will peak and start falling.

01:50:50.960 And the scary thing is there's no bottom.

01:50:52.360 You can go to zero.

01:50:53.380 So I don't think, you know, population is a problem in that sense.

01:50:56.640 In fact, we'll want people to live longer so we don't shrink the population so fast.

01:51:00.260 And this is even regardless of going into space.

01:51:02.660 Well, yeah.

01:51:02.880 Even growing up, I remember my neighbors growing up, they had like seven children.

01:51:06.780 And my neighbor, the neighbors I have now have only two children.

01:51:09.880 Yeah.

01:51:10.140 If any.

01:51:10.760 Yeah.

01:51:11.120 A lot of people don't have any these days.

01:51:12.820 It's getting a lot less out there.

01:51:15.960 So that's not an issue, nor is resources.

01:51:18.220 You know, people panicking about energy and resources.

01:51:19.860 Those are all political problems.

01:51:21.160 It's because of stupid policies that we're not creating energy.

01:51:25.940 What about this?

01:51:26.620 What if you say I get frozen, right?

01:51:28.280 My grandkid are like, oh, fuck, we didn't even know him.

01:51:31.480 Shut it down.

01:51:32.260 We don't want to do it anymore.

01:51:33.420 How do I get protected?

01:51:35.420 Oh, well, they don't have any choice in that.

01:51:36.840 I mean, you've made the arrangements.

01:51:37.920 Your agreement is with the Alcor Foundation.

01:51:39.940 And that's our contractual obligation.

01:51:41.260 That's what we do.

01:51:42.080 We'd certainly be in big trouble if we ever did that at someone else's wish.

01:51:45.200 And that's why we've had legal battles, because we've said absolutely no.

01:51:48.100 We are doing what the patient wishes, and you're not going to stop it.

01:51:51.200 So somebody who doesn't want you to continue being cryopreserved has no say in the word.

01:51:56.200 Legally, and this is an interesting point, actually, because it will change, I think, at some point in the future.

01:52:00.020 Right now, legally, when you're cryopreserved, in the eyes of the law, you're donating yourself to a scientific experiment, basically.

01:52:07.700 Because we're a nonprofit organization, scientific educational organization.

01:52:11.900 You're basically donating yourself biologically as an experiment.

01:52:15.240 Now, that's not the way we see it, because we see you as a patient.

01:52:17.780 But at some point in the future, I think when these ideas become more familiar, you'll have some kind of legal status.

01:52:24.520 You'll be someone who can't be just taken out or an arm yanked off.

01:52:27.220 Just like someone right now in a long-term coma in a hospital.

01:52:29.440 You can't just go in there and take their foot off or take out their kidney.

01:52:32.760 They have certain rights.

01:52:34.200 So right now, literally, we own your ass right now.

01:52:37.100 Yeah, it's cool.

01:52:37.920 Legally speaking.

01:52:38.620 But at some point, I think you will have a legal status, like someone in a coma.

01:52:42.020 But relatives can't just come and yank you out, no.

01:52:44.740 And what do people want their pets to come back?

01:52:48.320 Oh, usually people get frozen with their pets, right?

01:52:51.000 No, no.

01:52:52.540 Usually, well, no, we don't.

01:52:54.020 It's not like the Egyptians who, you know, when the pharaoh died, they killed all the servants and buried them with them.

01:52:59.200 We don't do that with the pets.

01:53:00.480 But now, generally, the pets are crabbers at first.

01:53:03.580 You may even have several of them by that time.

01:53:06.840 I don't think we've really had a case of when a member has died and then what happens to their pets.

01:53:10.500 I think they're usually adopted by someone else.

01:53:12.360 What about the smallest pet?

01:53:13.240 You got any hampst in there?

01:53:14.500 Any hamsters?

01:53:15.840 Probably.

01:53:16.300 I think the smallest, we actually have two, what do you call those things?

01:53:20.340 Little furry things.

01:53:22.140 Not hamsters smaller than that.

01:53:23.420 Oh, gerbils?

01:53:24.620 No.

01:53:25.180 Ferret?

01:53:25.960 Ferrets.

01:53:26.520 No, no.

01:53:27.080 Is it a ferret?

01:53:27.700 Oh, guinea pigs.

01:53:28.920 It's not a guinea pig.

01:53:30.520 Oh, groundhog.

01:53:31.420 It's something like a ferret.

01:53:32.300 I think it's got a different name.

01:53:33.900 It's a really cute, very, very soft thing.

01:53:35.840 Sugar glider?

01:53:36.460 It's super soft.

01:53:37.900 What do they call those things?

01:53:38.820 It's kind of ferret-ish, but it's really, really soft.

01:53:41.920 Not a Bichon, huh?

01:53:43.040 No, that's dog.

01:53:44.220 I'm trying to remember what it is.

01:53:44.960 I forget the name, but those are really kind of, you can't do the surgery on those very well

01:53:48.540 because they've got tiny blood vessels, so they may not get the full treatment.

01:53:52.140 Pull up a guinea pig, man.

01:53:53.260 It could be a G-Pig, baby.

01:53:54.220 I'm trying to think what that thing's called.

01:53:55.980 It's extremely soft.

01:53:57.340 That's why they're so popular.

01:54:02.080 Let's see one.

01:54:02.720 Let's click on one.

01:54:03.460 We did have a, we had a crank call once a few years ago.

01:54:06.620 Did it?

01:54:07.640 No, it's kind of, yeah, I don't know.

01:54:09.400 But these are beautiful.

01:54:10.320 I'll remember later on when it's too late.

01:54:12.840 We did get a crank call one time.

01:54:14.380 It was kind of funny.

01:54:15.020 Someone called us up and said, well, I have a pet octopus.

01:54:18.020 Do you charge by the tentacle or what?

01:54:20.280 Yeah, that's insane.

01:54:26.960 Somebody would do that.

01:54:28.520 What about that population?

01:54:29.920 Is population growth, it's really going down?

01:54:32.180 Yeah.

01:54:32.500 Oh, it's been, the growth has been going down and down and absolute population levels are

01:54:35.660 going to actually going down in many countries.

01:54:37.240 You always hear all this population fear.

01:54:39.120 What is all that?

01:54:39.680 I know it's, it's bizarre.

01:54:40.660 It's very outdated.

01:54:41.540 It's like people haven't lived since the 60s.

01:54:42.240 Where do we find information that population is going down?

01:54:44.600 Is it out there?

01:54:45.280 Our world in data is a good place again.

01:54:47.240 You can find it pretty much anyway, even Wikipedia, which is not reliable on a lot of stuff.

01:54:50.720 Well, I hope population, look, population can do whatever it wants.

01:54:54.720 I think it's fascinating, man.

01:54:56.720 It's fascinating to be like, kind of like a, you know, like a, kind of a Christopher Columbus

01:55:04.140 on the, on the plane of time, you know?

01:55:06.640 Cryonauta sometimes.

01:55:07.700 Yeah.

01:55:08.100 Instead of an astronaut, a cryonauta.

01:55:09.860 Yeah.

01:55:10.040 Yeah.

01:55:10.200 Christopher Cryolumbus.

01:55:12.240 I think this was really fascinating, Max.

01:55:14.640 Man, I really appreciate it.

01:55:15.860 I think it's, it's intriguing to think of, it makes me think of what, what type of like

01:55:22.920 non-profits people could even get involved in.

01:55:28.260 It expands the idea of where I even think of non-profits being and what they're doing.

01:55:34.020 I thought it was going to be a lot more expensive, honestly.

01:55:36.780 Yeah.

01:55:36.980 Most people do.

01:55:37.640 They think it's only for rich people and it's really not the case.

01:55:40.060 Again, life insurance makes it affordable, especially if you're fairly young, it's quite

01:55:42.940 easily affordable.

01:55:44.540 But again, despite that, it's growing pretty slowly.

01:55:46.880 You know, there's only three or four organizations in the States.

01:55:49.480 There's one in China.

01:55:50.160 There's one starting up in Australia.

01:55:51.540 There's one starting in Switzerland.

01:55:52.620 There's one in Russia, which is kind of a disaster, as you might expect.

01:55:56.580 Yeah.

01:55:57.500 So there's really not that many worldwide, but it is, it's gradually growing.

01:56:00.760 I like to think when I started, when I joined, I was member number 67.

01:56:03.960 Now we have 1,500.

01:56:05.660 I think there were three patients.

01:56:06.820 Now we have 196.

01:56:08.060 So we're getting there slowly, but I think there'll be some point we'll look back on at

01:56:12.000 some point in the future.

01:56:12.940 And this will be normal.

01:56:14.320 This will be the thing that is normal to do.

01:56:15.920 And people will just scratch their heads and wonder why the hell did people destroy their

01:56:20.020 loved ones, bury them or cremate them when they could have done this?

01:56:22.780 How weird is that?

01:56:24.060 So this won't seem like the weird idea.

01:56:25.800 What we're doing now will seem weird in the future.

01:56:28.540 Well, that's exactly what I'm thinking about.

01:56:30.160 It was like when you were talking about getting to the moon, what I pictured was two guys and

01:56:32.760 one of them has a ladder and the guy, one guy's like, there's no way we can do it.

01:56:35.660 You know?

01:56:36.200 And then I thought about like burial was like, yeah, putting someone in the ground or cremating

01:56:40.040 them.

01:56:40.340 Um, so if everything's kind of evolving, it's like, um, eventually, yeah, burial would

01:56:47.160 be like, well, you got to get saved.

01:56:48.440 You like, why would, yeah.

01:56:49.520 Like somebody be like, oh, we have my grandma.

01:56:51.400 There's like a NFT, like a real life NFT.

01:56:53.420 You know, we ever like saved, you know, with Alcor, you know, or saved chronically.

01:56:58.420 Um, uh, about it being a normal thing in the future, whereas, you know, it's seen as kind

01:57:02.720 of bizarre and strange now, but I think it'll be perfectly normal.

01:57:05.460 It'd be the standard thing in the future.

01:57:06.700 It'd be crazy to do the opposite.

01:57:08.480 Yeah.

01:57:08.740 It'd be crazy.

01:57:09.120 Like, what are you just going to burn him?

01:57:10.760 Yeah.

01:57:11.060 That's in, that's crazy.

01:57:12.460 I love him, but I'm going to burn him.

01:57:14.060 I'm going to love him.

01:57:14.720 I want to be eaten by worms and bacteria.

01:57:16.620 What?

01:57:18.500 Yeah.

01:57:18.780 It's like, we keep everything, baby.

01:57:20.160 You're the fricking dude.

01:57:21.640 You're like the, I mean, you're the liaison of leftovers, man.

01:57:25.220 You're talking about long-term baby.

01:57:26.900 I mean, if you hate uncle Fred, okay, bury him, bury him or burn him.

01:57:29.720 But if you like the guy, why would you do that?

01:57:31.660 Or bring him back later and we'll fuck him up down the line, you know, if you want, but

01:57:35.120 whatever, to have the opportunity, you know, the possibility.

01:57:38.300 I like that, man.

01:57:40.220 Dr. Max Moore, thank you so much for coming in.

01:57:42.760 Thanks for having me.

01:57:43.420 It's been great.

01:57:44.060 Yeah, I really appreciate it.

01:57:45.020 Now, I'm just floating on the breeze, and I feel I'm falling like these leaves.

01:57:51.160 I must be cornerstone.

01:57:56.400 Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind I found.

01:58:01.900 I can feel it in my bones.

01:58:05.280 Ladies and gentlemen, I'm Jonathan Kite, and welcome to Kite Club, a podcast where I'll

01:58:15.540 be sharing thoughts on things like current events, stand-up stories, and seven ways to

01:58:20.220 pleasure your partner.

01:58:21.780 The answer may shock you.

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01:58:29.940 A lot of people are talking about Kite Club.

01:58:36.100 I've been talking about Kite Club for so long, longer than anybody else.

01:58:40.460 So great.

01:58:41.780 Hi.

01:58:42.420 Sweetie.

01:58:43.360 Here's a deal.

01:58:44.720 Anyone who doesn't listen to Kite Club is a dodgy bloody wanker.

01:58:48.700 Jermaine.

01:58:49.940 Hi.

01:58:50.300 I'll take a quarter pounder with cheese and a McFlurry.

01:58:53.780 Sorry, sir, but our ice cream machine is broken.

01:58:55.860 Oh, no.

01:58:58.140 I think Tom Hanks just butt-dialed me.

01:59:00.560 Anyway, first rule of Kite Club is, tell everyone about Kite Club.

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01:59:14.100 yeah?

01:59:14.460 And yes, don't worry.

01:59:16.060 My Brad Pitt impression will get better.

This Past Weekend with Theo Von

E404 Dr. Max More

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