This Past Weekend with Theo Von - E513 Louis Theroux

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00:00:24.340 Service fees, exclusions, and terms apply.

00:00:27.020 Instacart. Groceries that over-deliver.

00:00:30.000 Some new tour dates to tell you about Long Beach, California, July 10th, Los Angeles, July 11th, Bethel, New York, July 31st, Albany, New York on August 1st, Las Vegas, Nevada, July 5th and 6th, Bangor, Maine, August 9th, Bend, Oregon, Spokane, Portland, Maine, and Oregon.

00:00:54.900 A lot of places, go check them out at theovon.com slash T-O-U-R.

00:01:02.540 And thank you to anybody that's come out and support and seen the show and just can't even believe it.

00:01:10.800 And I'll see you guys there, baby. Praise God, baby gang.

00:01:14.300 Today's guest is a documentarian, a journalist, an instigator of sorts.

00:01:22.480 He has a new documentary that's trending right now on Netflix called Tell Them You Love Me.

00:01:28.660 It's really fascinating if you haven't seen it.

00:01:30.540 He's always splashing in the dark pools of society, and we're grateful for all his contributions over the years that have kept us entertained and intrigued and informed as well.

00:01:48.140 Today's guest here from the United Kingdom is Mr. Louis Theroux.

00:01:54.660 Shine that light on me

00:01:59.540 I'll sit and tell you my stories

00:02:05.540 Shine on me

00:02:10.540 And I will find a song

00:02:14.460 I've been singing

00:02:15.660 Almost

00:02:16.220 I like your voice, man. I like your voice.

00:02:26.460 You do?

00:02:26.900 Yeah.

00:02:27.400 Oh, thanks, man.

00:02:28.440 I'd like to speak like that.

00:02:30.340 Well, I think, well, it's interesting coming to London because you see where it started at.

00:02:37.560 Coming to London is very much like going and looking at the roots of America.

00:02:44.400 Well, yeah, and the English language, and you probably know this, but they say Shakespeare, if he were alive today, would speak like kind of like an Appalachian.

00:02:53.840 He'd be a, I feel like he'd probably be a rapper or something now.

00:02:57.140 He'd probably be a rapper. He'd talk kind of like this.

00:02:59.380 Yeah, he'd be like, where the hoes are, or whatever.

00:03:01.740 Yeah, because words like got, we say got, we say gotten in America, or fall, and we say autumn.

00:03:07.580 Those are, you know, in Shakespeare, he'd talk kind of like, it's a lot of fun talking to you, Theo Vaughn, because I'm kind of a stand-up comedian too.

00:03:16.420 Oh, so he'd be-

00:03:17.100 But I make plays.

00:03:18.180 Yeah.

00:03:18.380 But there is different characters on stage talking and stuff.

00:03:22.500 Are you serious, William? That sounds really-

00:03:24.840 Yeah. I love words.

00:03:26.980 Yeah?

00:03:27.240 It feels weird talking to you. Like, it feels a little offensive, like I'm-

00:03:30.260 No, I don't think so.

00:03:31.520 Well, I think-

00:03:32.000 You could hear everything that's wrong with what I'm doing, but to me, it sounded perfect.

00:03:35.200 Well, it's funny, because people will like joke about a white accent that's kind of country, but they don't, like they don't, but if you do it about a black accent, it seems like it gets offensive, you know?

00:03:47.420 Yeah, but I don't, this is, I don't use terms like, obviously I don't use racial slurs, but I don't say white trash, for example, and that sounds like maybe prissy, but, or I wouldn't use the term hillbilly. Does that make sense?

00:04:03.180 Because, I don't feel like I, maybe because I came from a position of something, like a little bit of privilege in life, and it feels like you're looking down on people.

00:04:13.140 Yeah. Well, I think it's like, in the past eight years, I would say, in the US, the, like, they made it so the only people they would make fun of anymore were kind of like poor white people, or just white people, kind of.

00:04:27.600 So they kind of stuck themselves in this place.

00:04:30.460 Yes.

00:04:30.820 I think it's one of the reasons why podcasting has had a rise over the years, because it still kept us just freedom of like, well, I'm not, I'll just, we'll talk about whatever we feel like, we'll try to just be our normal selves.

00:04:43.000 And actually be loose and free.

00:04:45.520 Yeah.

00:04:45.620 I used to, in the 90s, I worked with, do you know who Michael Moore is, the documentary maker?

00:04:48.660 Oh, yeah.

00:04:48.820 So he was my mentor of a sort, like he gave me my first job on TV.

00:04:52.300 I worked for a show called TV Nation in the mid 90s.

00:04:55.280 It was on NBC and then it was on Fox, but it felt like, because it was a very, it was a left wing, kind of politically engaged, but it felt like the one thing we were okay, as we as a collective on the show, with making fun with, making fun of was kind of white southerners.

00:05:10.200 Yeah.

00:05:10.380 So it was like, oh, well, we're going to channel all that into just making fun of Billy Joel and Billy Bob.

00:05:16.140 Yeah.

00:05:16.640 And it always, I always slightly felt like, maybe this isn't okay.

00:05:20.940 You know what I mean?

00:05:21.960 Like the last acceptable taboo.

00:05:24.000 Right.

00:05:24.400 Making fun of the dumb crackers.

00:05:26.300 Yeah, dude.

00:05:27.200 These damn dumb.

00:05:28.160 They don't know shit.

00:05:29.180 They're dumb as a stump.

00:05:30.200 They're drinking gasoline.

00:05:31.720 Yeah, right.

00:05:32.260 They're making love.

00:05:32.840 Doing donuts.

00:05:33.860 Yeah, yeah.

00:05:34.360 Driving around thinking that's fun.

00:05:35.700 They're doing donuts in their sister's vagina.

00:05:38.380 That's the scariest place to do one.

00:05:41.300 But during, for some reason, there was like something in the past, like eight years, when

00:05:45.400 it hit that, that people started to kind of get fed up with it in a way, or they just wanted

00:05:52.460 equality.

00:05:53.100 They just want it.

00:05:53.700 Well, make fun of everybody.

00:05:55.560 Yeah.

00:05:55.820 Like, don't just, you know, and I think some of that came with like the Trump stuff.

00:05:59.680 People thought that all Trump supporters were just like complete, um, he'll, you know,

00:06:04.680 he'll build his ignoramuses.

00:06:06.600 And I think you see that a little bit in some of the stuff Sacha Baron Cohen did.

00:06:12.580 Yeah.

00:06:12.680 You ever watch like, um, Borat and Bruno and it felt like.

00:06:17.640 It felt mean to me.

00:06:18.540 It felt a bit mean.

00:06:20.080 Sometimes.

00:06:20.660 Yeah.

00:06:20.820 When he was making fun of that, he takes, you remember this one, it's kind of, it's

00:06:24.300 weird because sometimes you feel it's funny.

00:06:26.220 I feel, I don't, you know, I don't want to be dumb.

00:06:28.020 Yeah, me too.

00:06:28.040 Because he's, it's funny and it felt a little bit like he was beating up on country folk.

00:06:34.080 Yeah.

00:06:34.340 You know what I mean?

00:06:35.820 Yeah.

00:06:36.300 I think, I think as long as everybody's getting beaten up on, it seems good.

00:06:40.700 Yeah.

00:06:41.120 And that's, I think where I feel like things are kind of hedging back that way because

00:06:44.540 there's nowhere else for them to go right now.

00:06:47.140 Um, man, you're London is marvelous, bro.

00:06:50.500 Oh, you're welcome.

00:06:51.720 I didn't know.

00:06:52.620 I didn't think I really, I was always kind of against the British.

00:06:55.900 Like, yeah.

00:06:56.180 Come on, really?

00:06:56.900 Yeah.

00:06:57.140 We're Polish.

00:06:58.000 My father's from Nicaragua, but his father was from Poland.

00:07:01.540 No way.

00:07:02.120 So my parent, my father, my grandfather met his wife in Nicaragua doing missionary work

00:07:09.200 a long time ago.

00:07:10.460 So you're kind of Latin.

00:07:12.080 I'm Polish Nicaraguan.

00:07:13.320 That's kind of how I feel the most, I guess.

00:07:15.400 Really?

00:07:15.700 Because my father was very like, um, you know, he would just talk in Spanish and drink small

00:07:20.680 coffees and, you know, and probably think about, you know, dancing with women that weren't

00:07:26.380 my mother.

00:07:27.120 Doing the Lambada.

00:07:28.220 Yes.

00:07:28.700 The Forbidden Dance.

00:07:29.860 But you were growing up in Covington and it must've been like, um, you were quite exotic

00:07:34.440 in those terms.

00:07:35.480 Cause that's a fairly, like that's mainly white and a few black people, right?

00:07:39.480 To be Nicaraguan, wouldn't that count for being a bit like?

00:07:42.920 Well, yeah, it even starts with N.I., you know, so immediately you were getting kind

00:07:47.200 of lumped in with the brothers.

00:07:49.040 You can pass.

00:07:49.900 Like you look pretty white to me.

00:07:51.540 Yeah.

00:07:51.840 I feel weird saying that.

00:07:52.880 Just saying that felt uncomfortable.

00:07:54.360 Like I was sounding like David Duke or something.

00:07:56.920 No, I used to share a back fence with David Duke.

00:07:59.200 Did you?

00:07:59.860 Yeah.

00:08:00.780 When he, his girlfriend, he dated the hottest chick that worked at our seafood restaurant.

00:08:04.940 Duke did?

00:08:05.640 Yeah.

00:08:05.940 They said that was his, um, people in the, you know, who were part of the white nationalist

00:08:09.260 movements that that was his, other than his racism and being a Nazi, like his other big

00:08:14.060 failing was that he, he had an eye for the ladies.

00:08:16.300 He was always having trouble shagging the wrong person's wife.

00:08:21.220 Oh yeah.

00:08:21.760 I could see that.

00:08:22.260 I'll think he had a problem with seafood.

00:08:24.660 Um, but yeah, because there's a lot of, yeah.

00:08:27.820 And he may be suffering from gout, you know?

00:08:29.820 Yeah.

00:08:30.420 He's pretty old now.

00:08:31.520 It could be just racism built up in his joints, but as a neighbor, nice guy.

00:08:36.800 That's pretty, pretty, yeah.

00:08:39.460 Like we didn't see much, you know, we'd go to the gym sometimes and sometimes he and I

00:08:43.100 would lift weights, but at that.

00:08:45.620 Yeah.

00:08:45.960 But he's quite a bit older.

00:08:47.660 Yeah.

00:08:47.780 Yeah.

00:08:47.900 He was older.

00:08:48.420 This was probably 20 years ago.

00:08:49.720 At that point he was, uh, you know, just a kind of a, still a healthy guy at the gym.

00:08:56.480 Um, but he wasn't yelling racist things or wearing like a racist shirt or anything.

00:09:00.680 No, his thing was, he left the clan to found the NAAWP.

00:09:05.100 Oh yeah.

00:09:05.600 You remember that?

00:09:06.440 Uh-uh.

00:09:06.840 I mean, it might be before your time.

00:09:08.260 National Association for the Advancement of White People.

00:09:11.020 White people, yeah.

00:09:11.600 And his thing was like, you know, black people can do it.

00:09:14.180 Why can't I?

00:09:14.860 It's just the same thing.

00:09:15.680 Civil rights.

00:09:16.440 Yeah.

00:09:17.000 Civil rights from my people.

00:09:18.520 Yeah.

00:09:18.900 Was the accent all right?

00:09:19.700 What are you hearing when I'm doing that?

00:09:21.300 Yeah, I'm hearing just like you, just kind of like having like a country accent.

00:09:25.480 What do you do in English one?

00:09:27.240 All right.

00:09:27.720 Good day, friends.

00:09:31.760 Keep going.

00:09:32.500 All right.

00:09:33.580 Oh, nice to see you today, miss.

00:09:35.340 Say I grew up in Louisiana because it's hard when you're mixing.

00:09:38.380 So I grew up in Covington, Louisiana and most of my, I met, you could just say, just talk

00:09:42.180 about that.

00:09:42.720 Well, I grew up in Covington, Louisiana, sir.

00:09:44.820 And I was just a wee fella there with my mom and me grandmom.

00:09:50.660 Not too bad.

00:09:51.500 And she died.

00:09:53.100 She had typhoid or she had a black long, yeah, something.

00:09:57.980 I don't know.

00:09:58.300 I don't know how British to get, you know?

00:09:59.780 Black long.

00:10:00.240 So we ate a lot of like war meals.

00:10:04.160 A lot of the food here tastes like a lot of war meals, I feel like.

00:10:07.320 Yes.

00:10:08.940 Which war?

00:10:09.700 Like the second one?

00:10:10.780 I'm not sure.

00:10:11.540 I'll have to open it.

00:10:12.300 I'll have to.

00:10:13.000 Do you mean like.

00:10:14.320 Check a reference.

00:10:14.960 So like it would be delicious if you were in a war.

00:10:17.360 Yeah, like it feels like somebody like hurried you into a tent to eat and this is what the

00:10:21.820 chef had, the cook had.

00:10:24.400 You know, like I'm half American.

00:10:26.000 My dad's from Boston, Massachusetts.

00:10:29.660 And so I feel a very divided loyalty.

00:10:32.680 But at the same time, because I grew up mainly in South London, I would come to America to

00:10:37.080 visit my relations.

00:10:38.800 Many of them lived around Boston or on Cape Cod.

00:10:41.040 We'd holiday on Cape Cod.

00:10:42.200 Oh, fancy, huh?

00:10:42.840 Very nice.

00:10:43.560 Yeah.

00:10:44.600 How are ya?

00:10:45.440 That's how they would.

00:10:46.220 How are ya?

00:10:47.600 That's a different American accent.

00:10:49.340 Yeah.

00:10:49.820 Yeah.

00:10:50.180 It's wicked.

00:10:51.400 And so your American fan base is going to be like, what the fuck is he doing?

00:10:57.820 But my point was that when they would have stereotypes about British people or English

00:11:02.980 people, I would feel slightly offended.

00:11:04.800 Because if you grow up in it, you don't notice like, oh, the food's awful.

00:11:10.020 Or the idea that English people will have bad teeth.

00:11:13.260 And I was like, no, we don't.

00:11:15.020 But actually, we kind of certainly did then.

00:11:17.860 They're a little better now.

00:11:19.340 But yeah, I'm interested in what you see from the outside.

00:11:21.480 So the food's not so good.

00:11:23.120 The food is not, yeah.

00:11:24.180 The food doesn't strike me.

00:11:25.820 The wind, this is one thing I noticed.

00:11:28.080 The women are, they seem to be neater women.

00:11:33.080 They seem to have more ambiance about them, I think.

00:11:38.460 And this is no disrespect to America or anything.

00:11:40.880 America seems like a lot more kind of social media obsessed and like kind of fake tit kind

00:11:50.520 of obsessed, whereas I feel like here, some of the women just seem to have their own, more

00:11:56.920 of their own world to them.

00:11:59.100 Do you have a girlfriend?

00:12:00.260 I don't have a girlfriend.

00:12:01.220 So you're out here, you know, down for whatever.

00:12:04.040 I'm not just, you know, just smashing any, you know, traipser or whatever people call

00:12:12.080 you or whatever somebody.

00:12:13.020 What was the term?

00:12:14.020 Traipser, somebody traipsing or buy or whatever.

00:12:16.340 Okay.

00:12:16.880 Yeah.

00:12:17.040 I'm not out here like touching people or anything.

00:12:19.320 You nearly said molesting.

00:12:20.620 Yeah.

00:12:20.840 Well, I mean, I'm not.

00:12:22.100 Yeah.

00:12:23.240 I mean, I'm doing everything legal.

00:12:25.320 You're doing legal work here.

00:12:26.560 Yeah.

00:12:26.700 You're of course.

00:12:27.340 Yeah.

00:12:27.800 But you're out here thinking like I'm a free.

00:12:30.380 I mean, I could meet a woman.

00:12:31.220 I could meet a wife.

00:12:31.860 You could meet your future wife.

00:12:34.260 Yeah.

00:12:34.440 I think I'm in the service.

00:12:35.260 I'm more to the place now where, yeah, I would like to meet a wife, you know.

00:12:38.020 So, but I just think that some of the-

00:12:39.840 Have you been out going out to clubs and bars?

00:12:41.920 No, no.

00:12:42.560 I don't go to clubs.

00:12:43.280 We went last.

00:12:45.780 Jimmy Carr took us out the other night to the Chilton.

00:12:49.840 Chilton Firehouse.

00:12:50.740 Chilton Firehouse.

00:12:51.860 That's high rolling.

00:12:52.920 It was fancy in there.

00:12:53.960 That's fancy.

00:12:54.400 The drinks are expensive, but they're very delicious.

00:12:57.440 Oh, and the lamps even had, they didn't have like the little clicker on the back on the

00:13:01.060 cord.

00:13:01.300 They had the actual-

00:13:02.760 Right.

00:13:04.140 Where you pull the-

00:13:05.200 Yeah.

00:13:06.020 You know?

00:13:06.500 Like a little string?

00:13:07.500 Like a bonafide lamp.

00:13:08.940 Yeah.

00:13:09.740 Like that time.

00:13:10.480 Like it was like, you know-

00:13:11.260 Does that count for a lot?

00:13:12.060 Like a string?

00:13:13.260 It's very formal.

00:13:13.940 That seems like a low bar for like formality.

00:13:17.500 I think-

00:13:17.820 The lamps had strings on them.

00:13:19.620 Well, I think reaching behind the little desk that it's on.

00:13:23.400 It was so fancy that place.

00:13:24.660 They didn't even have switches.

00:13:25.660 They had lamps with little strings dangling off them.

00:13:28.580 It's an offense if I do that.

00:13:29.740 We can cut that out.

00:13:30.320 If you feel like your fans are going to be like, why'd you get that limey on there and

00:13:34.280 he just rolled you?

00:13:36.080 No, I don't think so.

00:13:37.980 I'll let you know if it feels weird.

00:13:39.720 I think because we're talking about it, it's fine.

00:13:42.780 If somebody was being like, but I think that's something that happened in America.

00:13:46.640 It was like people were like, fuck you.

00:13:49.480 You'll try and sell us your television programming, but the only thing that's on it is you're only

00:13:54.720 brave enough to make fun of us.

00:13:56.320 Yeah.

00:13:56.600 Like you're not even artistic anymore.

00:13:58.980 I think that's something that's happened a lot with like Hollywood is they become like

00:14:04.740 fifth and sixth generation Hollywooders now.

00:14:07.860 It's not, they're not as accepting of like people coming in and bringing in different

00:14:11.960 ideas.

00:14:12.460 It doesn't feel like a melting pot of ideas anymore.

00:14:14.640 It feels like the people that originally came there and had the ideas, some of that's kind

00:14:22.040 of dissipated just by like nepotism and stuff like that sometimes.

00:14:26.800 And insularity, they're in a bubble.

00:14:29.640 I'll say like, you know, because I came up as a, you know, from the outward appearances

00:14:34.000 being British, but then I got my break in America working for Michael Moore.

00:14:37.120 And then I was doing story at first.

00:14:39.320 One of the first stories I did was about the Ku Klux Klan and I was in.

00:14:42.680 Yeah, I'm familiar with it.

00:14:43.540 Okay, Zinc, Arkansas, and what, the show that I did or the, or the phenomenon of the

00:14:47.760 Klan or both?

00:14:49.480 I'm familiar with the one, where's the part where the guy, you guys are at the house and

00:14:53.640 they ask you if you're Jewish or the guy tries to involve you about it?

00:14:55.300 Okay, that was a different one because then it was like, it works.

00:14:57.300 So then that was also, that was, I was with the neo-Nazis in California, but the first

00:15:00.620 one, it was a guy called Michael Lowe.

00:15:02.460 He lived in Waco, Texas.

00:15:04.980 Oh yeah.

00:15:05.640 And he said, no, sir.

00:15:06.540 And it was the first time I found, I encountered that Southern thing of being called sir, but in a

00:15:11.600 way that felt formal to the point of slightly unfriendly.

00:15:15.820 Yes, sir.

00:15:16.700 It's real nice.

00:15:17.400 Come over here, sir.

00:15:18.420 Like it could have felt like polite, but it felt like distancing.

00:15:21.660 You know what I mean?

00:15:22.300 No, it's just like that.

00:15:23.240 And he was showing me all his signs and the sign, he would, they were pretending not to

00:15:26.580 be racist.

00:15:27.820 Oh yeah.

00:15:28.100 I've seen this actually.

00:15:28.720 But they're in the Ku Klux Klan.

00:15:29.700 And so he's leaving out this stuff and it says, and this is something with an atom we

00:15:33.360 use for our world side sales and it's called for the discriminating shopper.

00:15:38.340 Yes, sir.

00:15:38.820 And it said discriminating in red.

00:15:40.560 And I go, but why does it say discriminating in red?

00:15:44.720 You know, it just like that because it's kind of stands out.

00:15:47.680 And I said, but does that mean you discriminate?

00:15:49.360 He goes, no, sir.

00:15:49.980 We do not discriminate.

00:15:51.200 No, sir.

00:15:51.980 And it was an odd thing.

00:15:53.440 But my point, the point I was going to get to was that when those shows go out in the

00:15:57.680 US, I'm thinking like, I'm half American.

00:16:00.640 Like this isn't me making fun of American culture, but some people didn't see it that

00:16:04.800 way.

00:16:05.320 And I always felt like a very deviant.

00:16:07.080 And I did one, I had one where I went around Miami Mega Jail, like the big, one of the biggest

00:16:12.280 jails in the States.

00:16:13.600 Oh, yeah, in Dade County.

00:16:14.760 Yeah, Miami Dade.

00:16:15.980 Fourth, fourth, fourth.

00:16:16.820 Yes.

00:16:17.300 So you've seen this stuff.

00:16:18.360 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:16:18.740 Oh my God.

00:16:19.020 Yeah, I'm familiar.

00:16:19.580 I don't want you to think that I'm not familiar.

00:16:20.780 Oh, I appreciate it.

00:16:21.820 So I thought it was a good show.

00:16:23.440 But then when it went out on Netflix, most, I guess most people, a lot of people liked

00:16:28.180 it.

00:16:28.300 But some of the comments were like, from people, I think black people who are like, why is

00:16:32.080 this white British guy going in, kind of making us look bad?

00:16:36.280 Which, it's a valid response, but it's definitely not how it was intended.

00:16:41.060 So I'm conscious of that feeling of being insider, but outsider as well.

00:16:46.640 You know, it's fine.

00:16:47.260 I was thinking about that.

00:16:47.900 I was like, I wonder what it feels like.

00:16:49.200 Because once you kind of, as somebody who's coming to look at something and explore it

00:16:54.120 and see how you can be a filter or like a kaleidoscope for the other people behind you

00:16:59.180 that are going to watch it.

00:17:00.200 What is that?

00:17:02.400 Is it tough?

00:17:03.940 Like, at a certain point, do you become a bit of a jaded kaleidoscope?

00:17:08.060 Do you become like a, do you like, yeah, how does your funnel change over time just because

00:17:14.520 of doing it more and more?

00:17:15.980 And because it garners, also there's, it garners esteem.

00:17:20.420 Yes.

00:17:20.640 And so that's, it's, it's just interesting how the different, how different factors can

00:17:24.260 start to affect the funnel.

00:17:25.180 I think the best thing that, the best thing that's happened to me is, is, is, is that I'm

00:17:28.580 not that well known in America and, and, you know, it's changed a little bit for various

00:17:34.340 reasons.

00:17:34.680 So I have a little bit of a profile, but I think the fact that I can go in where, if

00:17:39.160 I did a documentary in the UK, I'd be pretty well known.

00:17:42.060 Yeah.

00:17:42.360 And it's fine.

00:17:42.940 You can still do it.

00:17:43.820 In some ways it generates more goodwill because they're like, oh, we like Louis, we'll let

00:17:47.900 him in.

00:17:48.180 And then off camera, you're maybe doing selfies and whatnot, which is fine.

00:17:51.620 Although it kind of eats into your time a bit.

00:17:53.720 And you think I'm supposed to be a serious journalist slightly flying under the radar.

00:17:57.840 And here I am doing selfies at a riot.

00:18:00.320 Do you know what I mean?

00:18:00.780 I'm like, I really need to be filming this right now.

00:18:03.120 So sorry.

00:18:03.580 Someone's being arrested over there.

00:18:05.180 Oh, just a quick selfie.

00:18:06.380 Come on, mate.

00:18:07.380 And then in America, however, I'm just, I'm going around Miami jail.

00:18:10.640 No one's going to ask me for a selfie there.

00:18:12.500 Do you know what I mean?

00:18:12.980 And I love that part of it.

00:18:14.200 And I never get jaded as long as I feel I'm meeting new people.

00:18:17.740 The only times where I felt like the dynamic changes is if I go back and do a follow-up

00:18:21.800 a couple of times.

00:18:22.740 So I did a story about the Westboro Baptist Church.

00:18:25.200 Yeah, I'm familiar.

00:18:25.760 That's in Louisiana, right?

00:18:26.900 It's in Kansas, Topeka, Kansas.

00:18:30.860 I think we have a branch in Louisiana.

00:18:33.000 I don't think so.

00:18:34.120 Really?

00:18:34.600 Yeah.

00:18:35.180 They don't really do branches.

00:18:37.080 It's really just a one-stop shop.

00:18:40.180 Oh, yeah.

00:18:40.620 Unless there's, there's obviously crazy, I use the term crazy advisedly, but there's

00:18:46.900 other outfits, there's strange churches, but with Westboro, there's only, as far as

00:18:51.760 I'm aware, there's only ever been, one of the guys left and moved to Louisiana.

00:18:55.260 I wonder if that's what you're thinking about.

00:18:56.020 I thought they had a Ford operating base or something in Louisiana.

00:18:58.560 Maybe.

00:18:59.200 Like a little beachhead.

00:19:00.400 Yeah.

00:19:00.980 Let's deploy from here.

00:19:02.360 So when I went back, I did the first one, I'm like, hello, how does it work?

00:19:08.020 Like, nice to meet you.

00:19:08.940 So you carry these signs.

00:19:10.260 What's that all about?

00:19:11.760 And then you made the program, and then I went and made a follow-up, and when you go

00:19:15.860 back, they kind of have your number.

00:19:17.640 And I don't mean number as in like, they know you're a prankster or making fun of them.

00:19:21.500 It's more like, they just know who you are.

00:19:24.220 Right.

00:19:24.480 So they don't put up with any nonsense, and you know who they are.

00:19:27.040 So the point, the word you used was jaded.

00:19:29.200 You get a little jaded, and that creates a different energy.

00:19:32.400 So you are sort of saying, come on, just stop it.

00:19:36.040 It's racist, or it's homophobic, it's anti-Semitic, and you just cut to the chase quicker, which

00:19:41.820 you have no camouflage.

00:19:45.980 So it doesn't make it impossible to do work.

00:19:49.140 And so as long as I'm on a new story, even if it's a related story to something, like

00:19:54.520 if you put me in a prison in the US tomorrow, I'd be a very happy person.

00:19:59.540 Wow.

00:20:00.280 So you like that sort of, you like being the princess and the pea, you like being the pea

00:20:04.660 under the mattress, kind of?

00:20:05.840 Yeah.

00:20:06.400 Yeah, kind of.

00:20:07.260 I'm working with that metaphor.

00:20:08.840 I'm waiting for it to make sense.

00:20:10.600 But yes, like maybe I'm the princess in the sense that, I love that fairy tale, by the

00:20:15.800 way.

00:20:16.160 Yeah.

00:20:16.420 You remember how it works?

00:20:17.740 Like she stops the night, and she says, I'm a princess.

00:20:20.280 And they say, we don't believe you.

00:20:22.580 And they say, here's how you test.

00:20:23.980 And they don't say anything to her.

00:20:25.060 They say, get a pea.

00:20:26.460 Am I, you remember how it is?

00:20:27.540 And they put like a hundred mattresses.

00:20:29.440 They put all the mattresses.

00:20:30.440 Like a ton.

00:20:31.320 And the next one, they say, how did you sleep?

00:20:32.860 And they said, I slept terrible.

00:20:35.260 And they're, what?

00:20:35.820 I was tossing and turning all night, because the one pea.

00:20:38.800 But the point, it's a point about, oh, she really was a princess, because she could feel

00:20:41.760 a pea.

00:20:42.360 I mean, it sounds kind of like a nightmare, right?

00:20:44.440 Yeah.

00:20:44.820 Well, I grew up, yeah.

00:20:45.760 I definitely, I used to have those buzzer underwear that would shock you if you peed at night.

00:20:49.180 I heard about that.

00:20:50.760 It didn't shock, you just buzzed, surely.

00:20:53.080 It was pretty strong.

00:20:54.100 The voltage we got.

00:20:55.160 You went through a lot growing up.

00:20:56.740 We got a pretty high voltage package, I think.

00:20:58.840 My mom wanted me to fucking feel it, yeah.

00:21:01.120 I got them for Christmas.

00:21:02.000 It was a gift, I remember.

00:21:03.500 And it was kind of fun, because you would be able to just sprinkle some water on them

00:21:06.700 and turn them on, you know?

00:21:08.120 And so my brother would be like, do the thing, you know?

00:21:10.540 And I would do it.

00:21:11.740 But do they still sell those?

00:21:14.240 Oh, I don't know.

00:21:14.940 That's a good question.

00:21:15.720 I don't know.

00:21:18.680 You need to look into that.

00:21:19.720 I think having the electricity in the pool of urine was a bad, it was a very 80s, 90s

00:21:28.200 thing.

00:21:28.780 But no, I meant you're like, you're the pee, actually, that gets put in, like, you're the

00:21:33.260 thing that has an effect on the...

00:21:35.160 I see.

00:21:35.640 Yeah, yeah.

00:21:35.960 I've got the distorting effect of being, of mixing things up.

00:21:39.780 And yeah, I very much, I do like that.

00:21:43.000 Yeah.

00:21:43.940 I don't know what else to say about that.

00:21:45.020 Like, how did that ever start in you that you desired, like...

00:21:48.920 Okay, I like invisibility, and I'm an anxious person.

00:21:52.340 And because I grew up always worrying about things, I found if I was talking to someone

00:21:58.320 who seemed off-beam or just in any way, like, their mind works differently.

00:22:04.520 Like, I was...

00:22:05.100 Maybe all kids are like this, but I was the kid who, if there was a homeless person with

00:22:09.100 his mouth open, and I was like five or six years old, I'd be like, what, what, Mike, what's

00:22:13.500 going on with that?

00:22:14.280 Mom, why has that man got his mouth open?

00:22:17.080 What, Mom?

00:22:18.460 And they're like, shh, you know, things you're not supposed to talk about, don't talk about.

00:22:21.480 Or if you read about just weird stuff happening, like guys falling asleep and kind of getting,

00:22:28.300 you know, and then burning to death because they were in the sun and they were wearing

00:22:31.620 too much sun oil.

00:22:32.840 And I was just like, what does that feel like?

00:22:34.680 I was just kind of...

00:22:35.920 I think there were aspects of life that felt so strange, it took me out of myself.

00:22:40.600 And whatever inner voices of anxiety and disquiet I had, they were silenced.

00:22:45.960 Does that make sense?

00:22:46.820 Yeah.

00:22:46.900 Yeah, it's interesting.

00:22:48.400 And so if you're on location, you're going and talking to someone who, like the first

00:22:51.400 story I ever did was for Michael Moore and it was called Millennium and it was about people

00:22:55.120 who think the end of the world is about to happen.

00:22:57.480 And my main anxiety was, I'm going to be terrible at being on TV, right?

00:23:02.620 I just didn't think I had, whatever that gift is, like I was very nervous.

00:23:06.300 I thought, I know, I always think I know at least five people who are way, who would be

00:23:10.920 way better at this than me.

00:23:12.140 Like my best friends were all really funny, people I grew up with who went on to be comedians

00:23:15.680 and talented performers, right?

00:23:17.920 And I'm thinking, I'm the least funny one in my friendship group.

00:23:21.180 And yet I was 23 years old and I'd been given this break.

00:23:24.300 And the only thing I had that I was clinging on to that I thought, but I'm going to take

00:23:28.040 this opportunity of being a correspondent on this new show because I want to meet these

00:23:34.300 people who are part of these crazy cults who think the world is about to end.

00:23:39.180 I just thought that does sound like, that sounds fascinating and I will enjoy that part

00:23:44.740 of it.

00:23:45.300 And maybe in enjoying speaking to them, they'll get some usable footage.

00:23:49.800 And that was really the launch pad.

00:23:51.560 Like was the fact that, I just want to know, like, why do you think that?

00:23:55.100 Like what part of you, you know, like when is it going to all happen?

00:23:58.580 When is Jesus coming back?

00:24:00.000 And what will he be wearing?

00:24:01.280 And is that a Tuesday or a Wednesday?

00:24:03.020 And the concrete detail or the UFO, there were four different groups and there was a

00:24:06.080 UFO group.

00:24:07.640 They were landing in Southern California.

00:24:10.360 The spaceships were going to land in 2001.

00:24:14.000 And then there was a group in Western Montana who were a part of a neo-Nazi outfit, who wore

00:24:19.920 little Nazi uniforms.

00:24:22.180 And I remember it was day three.

00:24:23.280 First two days, it went terrible.

00:24:24.760 It went terrible.

00:24:25.600 Like I thought...

00:24:27.340 With the neo-Nazis, you mean?

00:24:28.840 No, day one was a Harold Camping.

00:24:31.220 He was a fundamentalist Christian who talked like this.

00:24:34.320 And then Jesus is going to come back, see?

00:24:36.400 Yeah.

00:24:36.740 And then day two was a UFO group.

00:24:39.480 And they were all kind of touchy-feely.

00:24:40.940 Like, we're not preaching doom and gloom.

00:24:43.580 We're not fearful at all.

00:24:45.500 But it was kind of like they kept talking.

00:24:47.120 Like I just didn't feel like I was clicking with them.

00:24:50.080 Like they talked too much, basically.

00:24:51.800 And I was too polite and scared to interrupt.

00:24:53.740 But then day three, the Nazis, bizarrely, were the most polite and the most sort of emotionally

00:25:01.080 available.

00:25:02.200 Does that make sense?

00:25:03.380 So they were just...

00:25:04.340 I think they were just so lonely and so bored.

00:25:07.860 Living...

00:25:08.140 Like two guys living in a trailer in Western Montana.

00:25:10.560 Oh, yeah.

00:25:11.160 But me arriving and they're like, come on in.

00:25:15.320 So great to have you.

00:25:16.440 You know, there's a lot of truth in the prophecies that are written up in Star Wars, the movie

00:25:20.160 Star Wars.

00:25:21.420 And what about Star Trek?

00:25:22.720 Star Trek's another one.

00:25:24.060 A lot of truth in that.

00:25:25.320 Different planets for different races.

00:25:27.320 Yeah.

00:25:27.620 And I thought like I was...

00:25:29.620 I didn't want to talk too much about myself because I thought they'd probably assume I

00:25:33.380 was Jewish because a lot of people assume I'm Jewish.

00:25:35.300 And I thought that would lead to an interesting dynamic.

00:25:37.840 Right.

00:25:38.100 So, and it was just really striking how they were just thrilled to be telling the good news

00:25:45.600 about different races going to different planets and how there was this neo-Nazi cosmic vision.

00:25:51.020 And I just sort of go like, wow, that's fascinating.

00:25:53.340 Tell me more.

00:25:54.600 And in the ambiance of kind of weird, I don't want to say friendship, but this sort of weird

00:26:00.840 feeling of warmth that infused the room and the ludicrousness of what they were saying,

00:26:06.480 I thought, okay, I can do this.

00:26:08.780 Like I can do my job.

00:26:10.120 Right.

00:26:10.260 This is funny and interesting.

00:26:12.860 And...

00:26:13.200 That's cool, man.

00:26:13.760 And I thought that was it.

00:26:14.540 I can now...

00:26:15.000 Now, not only did I think I've got this, I thought like I'm one of the greatest TV performers

00:26:19.040 of all time.

00:26:19.820 I'm that quick.

00:26:20.600 You know what I mean?

00:26:21.320 Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:26:21.760 It went like that.

00:26:22.840 I was like, this isn't a segment.

00:26:24.240 This is a feature film.

00:26:26.300 And in fact, Michael Moore better watch out because...

00:26:28.760 Yeah, I'm on his tail.

00:26:29.600 I'm hot on his tail.

00:26:30.940 I'm way bigger than that.

00:26:32.180 Yeah.

00:26:32.860 Oh, it's wild how your ego...

00:26:33.880 This is three days in.

00:26:34.600 Three days in.

00:26:35.300 Of course.

00:26:35.640 I'm too big for this.

00:26:37.340 What's so wild how your ego will kind of be the thing that coerces you, that tickles

00:26:43.260 you enough and prods you enough to even get on stage.

00:26:45.940 And the second you open your mouth, then it jumps right in front of you and fucking thinks

00:26:50.760 you're Katy Perry or somebody or Benedict Arnold or whatever.

00:26:54.020 Yeah.

00:26:54.220 I don't have a middle range.

00:26:55.940 Like I'm either this is a disaster or I smashed it.

00:27:00.960 Same.

00:27:01.280 That's probably pretty normal.

00:27:02.560 Yeah, I think that's pretty...

00:27:04.340 I think it's...

00:27:05.740 You know, I go to like 12-step recovery and there's a term in there.

00:27:09.460 It's always like I'm an egomaniac with an inferiority complex.

00:27:13.320 Yeah.

00:27:14.460 That's a big term that people say in there.

00:27:16.520 It's terrible when you say something about you think it's unique and it turns out not

00:27:20.060 only is it not unique, like it's a cliche.

00:27:22.580 Yeah.

00:27:22.680 Like my personality type is actually a cliche.

00:27:26.680 That's kind of disappointing.

00:27:28.820 Seems pretty chill.

00:27:29.780 It seems...

00:27:30.260 That's when you realize maybe we are all already AIs, you know?

00:27:35.940 Like we are in a sim.

00:27:37.340 Well, I think that's...

00:27:38.440 There's nothing original about me or you.

00:27:41.060 Maybe you, but not me.

00:27:42.100 Well, that's not very fair to put it on me since you made it so sullen, but I will say

00:27:46.920 this, dude.

00:27:47.920 One time Joe Rogan said, I was talking with him and I'm not name dropping.

00:27:52.040 I know you've been over there before.

00:27:53.380 Yeah, yeah.

00:27:53.760 And he said, you know, there's many of us out there.

00:27:57.660 There's like seven Theo Vons.

00:28:01.880 There's like seven Louis Theroux.

00:28:04.900 There's like a whole...

00:28:06.900 There's like...

00:28:07.960 There's just...

00:28:08.540 Happening at the same time.

00:28:10.720 And I don't know if I believe it.

00:28:11.960 And one of them is Asian and a couple of them are probably in Africa, which is crazy to

00:28:16.100 think about, right?

00:28:16.820 Yeah, it is.

00:28:17.560 But I don't know if I believe that because it takes away some of your own like sense of

00:28:23.060 being value to yourself, you know?

00:28:25.400 But that was one of the reasons why...

00:28:27.400 I've never said this before, I don't think, but when I went to America, I felt able to be

00:28:32.280 on TV because I thought, well, there's not many people like me here, you know, and I could

00:28:38.260 be the British guy.

00:28:39.760 Whereas in the UK and certainly in London, I feel like there's hundreds of guys who are

00:28:45.560 just like me.

00:28:46.480 Yeah.

00:28:46.960 Do you know what I mean?

00:28:47.740 Whereas you actually...

00:28:49.020 You carved a path for yourself surrounded by people who are somewhat, probably somewhat

00:28:54.020 similar.

00:28:54.440 There's other versions of you out there, but you're the best.

00:28:57.120 You must be the best one because you rose to the top.

00:28:59.800 I don't know.

00:29:00.740 I mean, I don't know sometimes why I've had success in this business or been fortunate.

00:29:07.480 I just hated not having a lot of opportunity, I felt like.

00:29:12.020 And then when podcasting came along, it felt like you could just do what you...

00:29:15.380 You could just be yourself, you know?

00:29:18.020 That's what felt.

00:29:19.200 And it's like, yeah, I don't know.

00:29:21.860 I don't know.

00:29:22.960 I've been like a slow evolver in life.

00:29:24.600 I'm kind of a slow learner and like a late evolver kind of.

00:29:27.940 And so...

00:29:28.740 Are you still fasting?

00:29:31.360 No.

00:29:32.640 Because you were fasting for a time.

00:29:35.480 Oh yeah, I fasted for a time.

00:29:36.880 I almost bit into a damn employee at a...

00:29:39.480 At a Best Buy?

00:29:40.220 Yeah.

00:29:40.640 Or a Costco?

00:29:41.560 It was Best Buy.

00:29:42.320 I don't go to Costco.

00:29:43.380 Why not?

00:29:44.380 I don't know.

00:29:45.000 Is there a difference?

00:29:45.760 I don't like seeing that much food at once.

00:29:49.700 Because...

00:29:50.220 Just...

00:29:51.140 Too tempting?

00:29:52.320 No.

00:29:52.800 Makes me feel sad.

00:29:54.200 Have you been to Aldi since you've been here?

00:29:56.380 Aldi, the supermarket?

00:29:57.560 No.

00:29:58.180 Everything's cheap.

00:29:58.900 You can't spend more than 50 pounds if you try.

00:30:02.140 Oh, wow.

00:30:02.680 It's wild because you need self-checkout.

00:30:04.680 So you have a little plastic bin and it's a discount retailer.

00:30:09.160 But you don't get a whole cart like a trolley.

00:30:13.360 Like you have to pull down a little plastic thing around.

00:30:15.900 And then when you get to...

00:30:16.840 You check out and you're boop.

00:30:18.520 You know you do the self-checkout.

00:30:19.860 But the barcodes are really big.

00:30:21.300 So it's not too difficult.

00:30:22.580 Is this making sense?

00:30:23.520 Yeah, 100%.

00:30:24.140 Because if you self-checkout, you don't want to be fussing with the tiny barcode.

00:30:27.740 You pass it right five times.

00:30:29.540 It's driving you insane, right?

00:30:31.300 But the big boop.

00:30:32.620 And then the bin's not that big.

00:30:34.280 It's pretty big.

00:30:35.120 But you pile it up and then you could get as much in there as possible.

00:30:38.380 And it's like 50 pounds.

00:30:39.600 Oh, wow.

00:30:40.000 It's wild.

00:30:40.920 I mean, it's not wild, but you save so...

00:30:42.480 If you're thrifty as I am, you save a lot of money.

00:30:46.040 We hope you're enjoying your Air Canada flight.

00:30:48.160 Rocky's vacation, here we come.

00:30:50.840 Whoa.

00:30:51.480 Is this economy?

00:30:52.920 Free beer, wine.

00:30:54.140 And snacks.

00:30:55.420 Sweet.

00:30:56.480 Fast-free Wi-Fi means I can make dinner reservations before we land.

00:31:00.520 And with live TV, I'm not missing the game.

00:31:03.560 It's kind of like I'm already on vacation.

00:31:06.760 Nice.

00:31:07.900 On behalf of Air Canada, nice travels.

00:31:11.000 Wi-Fi available to Airplane members on Equipped Flight.

00:31:13.080 Sponsored by Bell.

00:31:13.760 Conditions apply.

00:31:14.480 CRCanada.com.

00:31:16.180 You know, we had a great experience working with Morgan and Morgan.

00:31:20.140 We had a lawsuit or court filings against us by Kai the Hitchhiker.

00:31:27.740 You know that.

00:31:28.440 And it took a while, but Morgan and Morgan saw it through.

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00:34:13.100 Is pornography causing a problem in your life?

00:34:16.060 That's a good question.

00:34:17.480 It's a real question.

00:34:18.480 It has in mind.

00:34:20.020 It has at certain periods in my life, watching porno and everything and watching porno was making me, it was ruining my life.

00:34:29.440 It was ruining my life, man.

00:34:31.540 Made me feel just so much shame.

00:34:32.980 That's what it did.

00:34:34.760 Well, watching pornography has become commonplace today.

00:34:38.800 And oftentimes men will use porno to numb the pain of loneliness, boredom, anxiety, and depression.

00:34:46.600 That's all I want to introduce you to my friend, Stephen Walt.

00:34:50.980 Steve is the founder of Valor Recovery.

00:34:53.320 He is a dear friend of mine.

00:34:55.200 He is a dear friend of mine.

00:34:57.780 And Valor Recovery is a program to help men overcome porn abuse and sexual compulsivity.

00:35:05.040 That's right.

00:35:06.060 Their coaches are in long-term recovery and they will be your partner, mentor, and spiritual guide to transcend problematic behaviors.

00:35:13.880 There is zero commitment if you reach out to them.

00:35:17.440 It's just the first step in trying to figure out if you may need some help, if you can get some help.

00:35:23.580 To learn more about Valor Recovery, please visit them at ValorRecoveryCoaching.com or email them at admin at ValorRecoveryCoaching.com.

00:35:37.840 The links will be on the YouTube.

00:35:39.560 And again, there's no commitment when you reach out to them.

00:35:44.780 But I promise you, only something positive will come from you reaching out and figuring out what type of help, if any, could benefit you.

00:35:57.080 Thank you.

00:35:57.900 Yeah, I wanted to say, yeah, I think that there's something very, the female, the women here seem like more confident in themselves.

00:36:09.800 Interesting.

00:36:10.460 And it's not a judgment against American women, but it's just something that I noticed.

00:36:13.080 It just seems like they have their own things going on.

00:36:16.800 Yes.

00:36:17.020 And I think in America, sometimes it feels like a lot, there's, we've created this space where women have to feel like this desperation to be seen on social media sometimes.

00:36:27.180 Yeah.

00:36:27.640 And I don't know if I feel that here.

00:36:30.460 And I'm not even saying that, I'm not judging the women.

00:36:32.860 I'm just saying that that's a, that's just something that I kind of feel like we've created in the States more.

00:36:37.460 But you live in Nashville, which is its own culture and its own milieu, right?

00:36:42.180 Yeah, it's quiet.

00:36:43.240 It's like families.

00:36:45.500 Other country and Western music.

00:36:47.020 Yeah, a lot of country, Western music.

00:36:48.520 It's fine.

00:36:50.640 Why not New York or L.A.?

00:36:52.420 I lived in L.A. for a bit.

00:36:54.060 It was too much.

00:36:55.220 It just, it stayed closed during the pandemic and Nashville was open.

00:37:00.060 And I didn't want to start paying the taxes in L.A. and have to, and have it be closed.

00:37:08.540 And so I was like, I'm going to move to a place that's open.

00:37:11.760 Is there a big opioid and heroin problem in Nashville?

00:37:15.420 In all of America there is now.

00:37:17.060 I did a story in Huntington, West Virginia.

00:37:18.980 And it was, it was, it was, it was, we called it heroin town.

00:37:22.640 And it was one of those places you just arrived, nicest, friendliest people and just a terrible, terrible, I don't know.

00:37:28.600 It might be better now, but back then, it was about four years ago, five years ago.

00:37:32.740 A lot of people sleeping and walking kind of, sleepwalking?

00:37:34.800 A lot of people dying on the streets.

00:37:38.020 And then, and then they get, they get Narcaned and then they pop back to life.

00:37:41.460 And they're mainly just annoyed because they're like, I was enjoying that, you know?

00:37:46.360 Oh, because you brought, oh, they were enjoying that.

00:37:48.060 Yeah, you knocked the opioids off their receptors.

00:37:50.800 Damn.

00:37:51.140 And then they're like, what'd you do that for?

00:37:53.460 Yeah, damn it.

00:37:54.200 Let me ride.

00:37:55.260 Yeah, let me ride again.

00:37:56.320 It's almost like, it's really become the new bull riding.

00:37:58.780 It's like, I thought you were going to say bungee jumping, but yes.

00:38:02.740 It's like, and then, and then some are like, have you, excuse me, sir, have you taken anything?

00:38:07.260 And like, no.

00:38:08.420 Yeah.

00:38:09.540 And they just can't keep that.

00:38:11.200 Like, I'm just praying.

00:38:12.060 Let me pray for a second.

00:38:13.600 Exactly.

00:38:14.180 Yeah.

00:38:14.520 It's wild.

00:38:15.280 Well, one of the things that really, this is where I think.

00:38:17.200 I'm fine.

00:38:17.980 Would you stop?

00:38:19.560 Yeah.

00:38:21.620 It's really strange.

00:38:23.200 Well, one of the things that started, they didn't even prosecute that family that did the opioid epidemic.

00:38:28.080 Yeah, the Sackler family.

00:38:29.500 That's fucking.

00:38:30.300 But they sued them.

00:38:31.220 They got a civil suit, but they.

00:38:32.900 But what does that mean?

00:38:33.780 They're fucking riding around and eating banana pudding or whatever.

00:38:36.820 Easily.

00:38:37.180 While people are dying in the fucking.

00:38:39.160 They even hit a speed bump.

00:38:40.460 They're like, driver, be careful.

00:38:42.080 And like, that's an opioded man that we hit.

00:38:45.560 You did it.

00:38:46.780 You know, it's like.

00:38:48.560 And once that's, that's one of the things that's really started to make people in America be like, there's nobody looking out for us anymore.

00:38:56.240 Oh, big time.

00:38:56.720 That was a huge part of it, I think.

00:38:58.060 I bet.

00:38:58.520 That book, by the way, Empire of Pain.

00:39:01.040 I haven't read that one.

00:39:01.940 Patrick Reddenkeith.

00:39:03.120 Brilliant book about how they started making certain, you know, a kind of medical company.

00:39:08.820 Three brothers and then the dynasty.

00:39:10.700 How they created various drugs.

00:39:12.700 Each of them in different ways problematic.

00:39:15.420 Like with side effects.

00:39:17.300 And then, and then the mother of all terrible drugs, which was the oxys and whatever.

00:39:22.600 And, and a lot of them live in Stad now, apparently.

00:39:25.800 You know, Stad in Switzerland.

00:39:27.700 Like it's a playground of the, of the wealthy.

00:39:30.620 Of the wealthy that are hiding from.

00:39:32.500 Yeah.

00:39:33.080 Yeah.

00:39:33.420 Wow.

00:39:33.940 Yeah.

00:39:34.100 That'd be a good documentary.

00:39:35.220 Yeah.

00:39:35.500 If you could get in there, they probably don't want to speak.

00:39:38.120 And then it must be tough for them.

00:39:39.300 The museums are all having to give the money back and take down, you know, because they

00:39:43.200 made all these donations.

00:39:45.340 But it's, it's, I think you're right.

00:39:46.880 I think the sense of betrayal and the, and the way in which, uh, the way in which it was

00:39:52.140 cynically rolled out and the way in which doctors were induced to over prescribe and

00:39:57.640 legislators were persuaded.

00:39:59.680 Yeah.

00:39:59.900 That's unbelievable.

00:40:00.400 And sales reps were all incentivized to make inappropriate sales.

00:40:04.700 I mean, everyone knows this now, but it was way worse than the pandemic, right?

00:40:09.300 Like in terms of like the loss of life.

00:40:11.880 Unbelievably worse.

00:40:13.080 And to think that it was, yeah.

00:40:15.200 To think that it didn't even hit that big of a crescendo.

00:40:18.140 I've never taken it.

00:40:19.000 Yeah.

00:40:19.320 Have you?

00:40:19.780 I've never taken it.

00:40:21.460 I'm afraid.

00:40:22.480 Fentanyl.

00:40:23.280 Yeah.

00:40:23.720 You got that good fentanyl.

00:40:25.040 God, they got it.

00:40:25.980 That fanny, they call it.

00:40:27.100 Is it?

00:40:28.240 That fenty.

00:40:29.800 People just, yeah, just lay there.

00:40:31.600 And then car fentanyl.

00:40:32.860 It's like each one.

00:40:33.360 Do you know about car fentanyl?

00:40:34.640 That's the elephant tranquilizer.

00:40:36.200 It's like, it's a hundred times stronger.

00:40:38.460 A hundred times?

00:40:40.460 That's right.

00:40:41.480 What?

00:40:42.120 Than fentanyl.

00:40:43.040 And fentanyl, if you touch it, you can overdose.

00:40:45.900 Yeah.

00:40:46.340 You don't even have to take it.

00:40:47.800 Yeah.

00:40:48.180 And so police officers are bagging it up and then keeling over saying, this is the best

00:40:52.600 day of my life.

00:40:55.560 It's a sad.

00:40:56.420 That's so sick.

00:40:57.580 That's awful.

00:40:58.140 And then, or inhaling it, right?

00:40:59.520 Yeah.

00:40:59.620 When they used to break into meth labs and then there was like the officers were getting,

00:41:04.320 you were keeling over because they weren't wearing gas masks.

00:41:06.920 You remember all of that?

00:41:08.020 Some of them weren't doing it on purpose.

00:41:09.260 I bet after that first day, they're like, yeah, I'm leaving this at home.

00:41:12.880 Yeah.

00:41:13.200 I'll be back in a month.

00:41:13.740 You leave this one for me.

00:41:14.580 I'll bag it up.

00:41:15.220 You get on with the next hit.

00:41:17.260 Yeah.

00:41:17.520 No, it's, it's awful.

00:41:18.820 That calf and then car fentanyl a hundred times.

00:41:21.000 It might be 10 times.

00:41:22.000 Even if it's one time.

00:41:23.320 Do you have a guy who can Google?

00:41:24.600 Have you got a Google guy?

00:41:25.660 Yeah, we do.

00:41:26.640 He can do it right over there.

00:41:27.460 Can you Google that?

00:41:28.520 He's an import.

00:41:29.560 Who's Joe's Google guy?

00:41:31.240 Jamie.

00:41:31.820 Get Jamie.

00:41:32.800 Jamie.

00:41:33.080 Jamie.

00:41:33.220 Can you check that?

00:41:34.340 Yeah.

00:41:34.520 Can you bring that up, dude?

00:41:36.160 Black people in wishing wells.

00:41:38.020 Is that what you were looking for?

00:41:39.680 What's that?

00:41:41.560 He's always got the credit.

00:41:42.640 No, but it's like calf fentanyl is like a, I think it's a hundred times stronger.

00:41:46.860 That's, it's like, what are we doing?

00:41:49.700 How could we, yeah, I think at that point people were like, no.

00:41:53.120 And so that on, when, after that happened and then COVID happened, that's one of the huge

00:41:58.700 reasons nobody trusted any of the pharmaceutical industry because everybody just seen, I have

00:42:03.940 four friends that died from fentanyl, right?

00:42:05.820 Seriously.

00:42:06.380 Swear to God.

00:42:07.860 Absolutely deceased.

00:42:08.680 People you grew up with.

00:42:09.640 Off the face of the earth.

00:42:10.900 Some from adulthood, but some from childhood, right?

00:42:14.240 Gone.

00:42:14.660 That's just me.

00:42:15.380 And I don't even run in those circles.

00:42:16.960 Yeah.

00:42:17.420 So I can't even, so once COVID happened and then it became like, oh, we're going to trust

00:42:23.540 a pharmaceutical, fuck no.

00:42:26.140 That's where a lot of America was.

00:42:27.380 I think a lot of people don't talk about that, but to me, that was a huge link.

00:42:32.980 That's wild.

00:42:33.960 Car fentanyl.

00:42:35.120 Yeah.

00:42:36.840 Yeah.

00:42:37.240 I don't know.

00:42:37.860 You shouldn't be in a car.

00:42:38.680 First of all, if you're in a car.

00:42:42.120 It's nothing to do with being in a car, right?

00:42:44.800 It's called car fentanyl.

00:42:46.300 Well, then that's a strange name.

00:42:48.740 It is a strange name.

00:42:49.660 Okay.

00:42:50.040 Fair.

00:42:50.460 Give me that.

00:42:50.940 Yeah.

00:42:51.060 But yeah.

00:42:52.120 Yeah.

00:42:52.440 It's so strong.

00:42:53.280 It's for cars.

00:42:54.540 No, it isn't that.

00:42:55.940 God damn.

00:42:56.600 I saw it.

00:42:57.060 I just saw a couple of tow trucks doing.

00:43:00.360 Yeah.

00:43:00.780 That's not what it is.

00:43:01.960 Yeah.

00:43:02.180 It's for elephants.

00:43:03.060 They should call it something else.

00:43:04.320 It's confusing.

00:43:05.740 Oh, it's wild though.

00:43:07.520 Dude.

00:43:07.680 But yeah, those pills.

00:43:08.520 Can I ask us because this is intrusive.

00:43:11.060 So you must feel, but you're in the fellowship.

00:43:13.400 Are you allowed to talk about that?

00:43:15.060 Yeah.

00:43:15.480 I mean, I was on cocaine was my deal.

00:43:17.340 Oh, yeah.

00:43:18.280 I liked a little bit of cocaine and yeah, I liked cocaine, you know?

00:43:23.480 Like if you would have some cocaine, then I would have some, hopefully.

00:43:28.600 If I had some now, what would you say?

00:43:31.080 I would say, we'll take a break boys.

00:43:34.560 No, because you're in recovery.

00:43:35.840 I'm in recovery.

00:43:36.300 No, I would say, I would look at it.

00:43:37.960 I'd make sure it's cocaine.

00:43:39.320 Right.

00:43:39.840 And then I'd probably hand it back to you.

00:43:41.520 Yeah.

00:43:41.860 And then a few minutes later though, here's what I would do a few minutes later.

00:43:45.000 I'd say, let me look at it again.

00:43:46.640 Really?

00:43:46.840 Yeah.

00:43:47.320 How long are you clean?

00:43:49.520 What's the term?

00:43:50.080 How many days clean are you?

00:43:51.400 Two years.

00:43:52.560 Congrats.

00:43:53.040 Yeah.

00:43:53.240 Thanks, man.

00:43:54.100 I had a couple of years and then went out and it is what it is, you know?

00:43:59.080 But I never had a drinking problem.

00:44:00.460 I just had a cocaine problem.

00:44:01.400 Right.

00:44:01.840 Did you ever struggle with anything?

00:44:03.900 I mean, if you go by what the guidebooks tell you, I probably drink too much.

00:44:09.180 Yeah.

00:44:09.500 I drink more than you're supposed to.

00:44:10.620 They say 20, is it 21?

00:44:12.240 20 beers a week.

00:44:13.260 21 units or 28.

00:44:14.720 It doesn't seem like very many.

00:44:18.000 You know what I mean?

00:44:19.040 I mean, that's the first thing that a guy who has a problem says.

00:44:21.680 No, but come on.

00:44:23.340 That's like...

00:44:23.840 21 beers a week.

00:44:24.700 Yeah, that isn't...

00:44:25.520 21 beers a week.

00:44:28.120 That would be a good week for me.

00:44:30.240 Okay.

00:44:30.760 Then that's a good...

00:44:31.360 That would be maybe if England was playing in the...

00:44:33.720 No, but as in like, that would be low.

00:44:35.780 Like, in other words, I'd be like, oh, wow, I had a great...

00:44:38.340 I don't want to characterize it like...

00:44:41.280 I don't...

00:44:42.040 Okay, I'm sounding defensive.

00:44:45.020 Check in with myself.

00:44:46.280 No, I like to have a drink, you know?

00:44:48.880 And I feel like, I find it relaxes me.

00:44:52.580 Sir, we're going to need to see your license and registration.

00:44:54.980 That's what I'm asking you for, sir.

00:44:56.320 Okay, I understand.

00:44:57.620 You don't drive...

00:44:58.300 Never drive while you're drinking.

00:45:00.320 No, I think...

00:45:01.180 And it's more of the culture.

00:45:02.260 In the UK, it's way more of the culture.

00:45:04.160 Yeah.

00:45:04.360 Ireland is the drunkest thing I'd ever seen in my life.

00:45:06.600 I couldn't believe...

00:45:07.040 Did you do some shows over there?

00:45:08.260 Yeah.

00:45:08.980 Did you have any guests?

00:45:10.860 Were you doing podcast shows?

00:45:12.820 Nope, no guests.

00:45:13.500 Did you like shows?

00:45:14.080 It was too much quickly moving.

00:45:16.180 They like a drink.

00:45:16.820 We like...

00:45:17.360 Scotland, they like a drink.

00:45:18.520 England, and there's...

00:45:19.920 It's...

00:45:20.360 What is...

00:45:20.720 What do we say about it?

00:45:23.180 My wife says I drink too much.

00:45:24.940 Good.

00:45:25.100 I disagree.

00:45:25.780 But they have to say that.

00:45:27.080 Yeah.

00:45:27.840 They're taught to say that as soon as they're born.

00:45:29.840 Do you think so?

00:45:30.480 Your husband's going to drink too much.

00:45:31.960 You tell them...

00:45:32.320 I think she eats too many crisps.

00:45:33.660 Well, I think it's very fair.

00:45:34.720 Which you call chips.

00:45:36.240 Yeah, very fair.

00:45:36.580 You know what I mean?

00:45:37.460 Yeah.

00:45:38.120 But I would never dream of saying that to her.

00:45:40.540 No.

00:45:40.900 She knows I think it.

00:45:42.400 Every now and then.

00:45:43.140 You can't say that.

00:45:44.020 Why is she allowed to say you drink too much, but I can't say, I think you eat too many crisps?

00:45:48.700 I'm going to...

00:45:49.080 Everyone...

00:45:49.620 All the women are going to be like, I used to like him, and now I don't like him.

00:45:53.680 No, the women love you.

00:45:54.800 Any woman I've mentioned you to, they absolutely love you.

00:45:56.840 Oh, I appreciate that.

00:45:56.940 But then they'll feel like he's coercive.

00:45:58.440 He's trying to stop Nancy from eating those chips.

00:46:01.920 What's his problem with Nancy eating chips?

00:46:03.840 I think it's, as you get older, do you find that you speak like women's language a little

00:46:11.140 better?

00:46:11.820 Like, I feel like I understand women.

00:46:12.700 Like you're more empathetic with women?

00:46:14.660 You just, there's certain things you know that you just, you don't ever say, you just

00:46:18.940 should never say...

00:46:20.040 A hundred percent.

00:46:20.620 Do you definitely want to eat that?

00:46:22.920 Just never say that.

00:46:24.380 You should not even look at a piece of their food.

00:46:26.820 No.

00:46:27.860 Or look surprised or be like, seconds.

00:46:30.680 Wow.

00:46:31.060 Really?

00:46:31.580 Yeah.

00:46:32.020 Never do that.

00:46:32.880 But also, if they say, do I look good in this or in this, you say you look amazing

00:46:39.400 in both.

00:46:40.220 Yeah.

00:46:41.020 Right?

00:46:41.560 You know all this.

00:46:42.680 Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:46:43.420 Well, I think as you get older, you just become, if you look at a senior citizen, most of them

00:46:47.780 could be a man or a woman.

00:46:49.480 They often evolve into the same haircut.

00:46:52.020 Your gender really...

00:46:52.960 Do you seem that old?

00:46:54.160 Are you imagining my wife and thinking that she looks like a senior citizen?

00:46:58.280 No, at all.

00:46:58.420 Is that where your mind went?

00:46:59.980 You seem healthy and your wife looks hard in my imagination.

00:47:02.220 I do want to let you know that.

00:47:04.340 Okay.

00:47:05.000 But not...

00:47:05.740 Is she naked?

00:47:06.300 Nothing crazy.

00:47:06.820 No, no, no.

00:47:07.160 She's very well...

00:47:08.000 She's working at a library.

00:47:09.480 Okay?

00:47:10.140 Yeah.

00:47:10.980 I did an AI...

00:47:11.920 I wanted to do an anniversary present in a couple of weeks.

00:47:16.660 I can't remember how many years it is because it's been so magical.

00:47:22.020 That didn't make any sense.

00:47:23.980 Like, not it, though.

00:47:24.800 But my point is, I thought, I'm going to do a...

00:47:27.860 It'll be funny if I do an AI picture of me and Nancy having a wonderful time together celebrating our anniversary.

00:47:37.060 You can put that into AI now, right?

00:47:39.000 And it'll make an amazing picture.

00:47:40.180 Yeah.

00:47:40.380 But sometimes it's so over the top, it looks kind of funny.

00:47:43.400 So Louis and Nancy having a romantic meal to celebrate their anniversary.

00:47:47.340 And it was Louis Theroux.

00:47:48.520 So there was a guy who popped up in the picture.

00:47:51.100 And his beautiful wife, Nancy...

00:47:52.820 The guy looked like me, but she looked like a 70-year-old librarian.

00:47:57.460 And I kept having to fiddle the search terms to make her hot, like his much younger, very attractive wife, Nancy.

00:48:04.920 But I couldn't meet...

00:48:06.180 I couldn't seem to get the AI to make her attractive.

00:48:09.000 Yeah.

00:48:09.300 So I ended up just putting in Liv Tyler look-alike.

00:48:12.960 Ooh, that's good strong.

00:48:14.160 And that did it.

00:48:15.020 I bummed a cigarette off her one night.

00:48:16.420 Did you?

00:48:16.940 Yeah.

00:48:17.520 She seems like a nice person.

00:48:19.160 She was very nice.

00:48:20.520 She gave me...

00:48:21.340 I think she was...

00:48:22.420 Yeah, she gave me half of a menthol cigarette.

00:48:25.260 And I was like, yeah, I kept it.

00:48:26.280 I didn't even smell it.

00:48:26.820 I took a couple of hits off of it, but then I put it out.

00:48:29.100 Yeah, I really thought that was nice of her.

00:48:32.140 It's funny how you can tell a lot.

00:48:34.900 Maybe not.

00:48:35.580 But, you know, little encounters with people, chips passing in the night.

00:48:39.780 And that was enough.

00:48:40.700 You get a sense.

00:48:41.560 Yeah.

00:48:41.960 You get a little bit of a sense.

00:48:42.740 It's funny that she smokes menthol, though.

00:48:44.240 It shocked me.

00:48:46.040 But...

00:48:46.360 First time I smoked a menthol, it's like, this tastes like it's good for me.

00:48:50.300 Oh, yeah.

00:48:50.980 That's that kind of mint, sort of refreshing.

00:48:53.200 Tastes like you just had washed under your arms.

00:48:55.240 You're like, God, that's strong.

00:48:57.120 Well, I could see a lot of black guys would smoke them when I was growing up.

00:49:00.220 Yeah, but according to legend...

00:49:01.940 According to legend, I'll tell you straight up, Terry was smoking them bitches, dude, when I met him.

00:49:06.480 A lot of the brothers would smoke them.

00:49:08.020 Yeah, because they wanted a stronger cigarette.

00:49:09.920 I think black people are just a, they can, they're strong.

00:49:13.420 They're just a tougher ilk.

00:49:15.200 But haven't they banned, I'm not touching that, by the way, menthol, haven't they banned menthol or not?

00:49:22.100 I don't know if they banned it or not, but people are still doing it, unfortunately.

00:49:28.100 And a lot of redheads will smoke them, too.

00:49:32.100 So when you see, that's sort of the, you know, if you look along the, I mean, yeah.

00:49:38.900 Redheads are kind of exotic, I would say.

00:49:40.980 You know, if you look in the Bible, there's none of them.

00:49:42.760 Not if you're in Ireland, but kind of, yeah.

00:49:43.940 Yeah, there's no redheads in the Bible.

00:49:45.540 For real.

00:49:47.780 So.

00:49:48.540 Have you really checked that?

00:49:50.100 100%.

00:49:50.500 Will you run that up?

00:49:51.500 How many gingers are in the Bible?

00:49:53.840 And also, so obviously they're man-made.

00:49:57.540 I think that's safe to say.

00:49:59.040 Right.

00:50:01.160 Engineered.

00:50:01.780 Yeah.

00:50:02.140 That's interesting.

00:50:05.500 I feel like, you know, I was just going to say, like, I feel like, like this is a good conversation,

00:50:11.480 but I also feel like I've talked a lot about kind of stereotypical gender stuff,

00:50:16.480 and I feel like people might think, oh, he's made all those programs,

00:50:19.080 and he's been to incredible places, and, like, that's what he's learned is.

00:50:22.920 I think they think we're just joking around and having fun.

00:50:25.780 I think that's what they think.

00:50:26.740 Yeah.

00:50:27.200 Yeah, 100%.

00:50:28.040 That's what I think.

00:50:29.520 And, but I think there's also snippets of reality.

00:50:31.840 Yeah.

00:50:32.040 I think when you talk with people like guys who are creatives like yourself,

00:50:36.720 there's, I think even you probably surprise yourself sometimes with what's reality maybe at times

00:50:42.100 and what's your imagination and a little bit of both maybe.

00:50:46.100 I don't know.

00:50:46.700 I don't know.

00:50:47.120 My thing is I'd like to feel like I'm wise,

00:50:53.100 and I'd like to feel like I've gone through life and I've figured something out,

00:50:57.560 and, you know, I've been to extraordinary places and delved deep into human psychology,

00:51:02.500 and I've arrived, you know, like with some elder, so some elder wisdom.

00:51:08.000 Yeah.

00:51:08.940 But I haven't.

00:51:10.580 But I think people respect that you're on the journey, no doubt.

00:51:13.920 Yes, I'm still on the journey.

00:51:15.300 I think a lot of people see that.

00:51:16.880 If they pitch you, they pitch you on the side of the Himalayas with a backpack on.

00:51:19.960 And thank you.

00:51:20.880 And I think part of my gift, if I may put it like that, you've really seen some of my programs.

00:51:25.240 That's a thrill.

00:51:25.840 Where would you have seen them?

00:51:26.820 I don't want to.

00:51:27.280 Well, I watched the new documentary, which I do want to talk about.

00:51:29.280 We should shout that out.

00:51:30.000 I want to talk about that.

00:51:31.040 Yeah.

00:51:31.380 I'm not in that one.

00:51:32.220 That one's, I'm executive producer of that one.

00:51:34.100 If it's the one I'm thinking of.

00:51:35.220 We.

00:51:35.460 Tell Them You Love Me on Netflix.

00:51:36.900 Tell Them You Love Me.

00:51:37.480 Oh, it was great.

00:51:38.460 It's, I mean, it's dark.

00:51:39.980 It was fat.

00:51:41.120 I did not see some of the turn that it took.

00:51:43.320 It's extraordinary.

00:51:44.460 Yeah.

00:51:44.840 Can I set it up very briefly?

00:51:46.300 That's all I was going to ask you.

00:51:47.580 No, because I want people to go watch it because it really was good.

00:51:50.000 It's on Netflix.

00:51:50.600 Yeah.

00:51:50.760 It's on Netflix.

00:51:51.200 It really was good.

00:51:52.300 It's like a true crime kind of psychology, psychological thriller drama.

00:51:57.840 You will love it.

00:51:58.680 If you like true crime type of stuff, I think you will absolutely love this.

00:52:03.480 In a twisty turny, I can't believe what I'm watching kind of away.

00:52:08.980 It's about a philosophy professor and a very disabled young black guy who's nonverbal and

00:52:17.040 has always been assumed to have a cognitive, significant cognitive impairment.

00:52:22.280 And she's a philosophy professor and she starts working with him and appears to unlock all

00:52:29.040 kinds of special abilities.

00:52:30.960 And his family, the young guy, Derek, his family is obviously thrilled.

00:52:35.220 He starts going to college.

00:52:36.940 He's having philosophical conversations with her.

00:52:41.120 I don't know if he's writing poetry, but he's sort of writing essays and they have this

00:52:46.700 meeting of minds.

00:52:47.560 And according to her version, they fall in love and they strike up a physical relationship.

00:52:54.580 But then questions start being raised about the nature of the technique that she's using

00:52:59.600 to open up his abilities, his alleged abilities, and then the abilities come under question.

00:53:07.320 And his family, Derek's family, start feeling actually he doesn't have the special abilities.

00:53:13.200 And this isn't a thrilling story about love across the divide.

00:53:18.060 It's actually abuse.

00:53:19.700 And she gets prosecuted and sent to prison.

00:53:22.020 So all the way along, you're trying to figure out what really happened.

00:53:25.100 It's on.

00:53:25.660 Yeah, it blew my mind because there's so many little things.

00:53:28.900 Well, and one of the things that you have to know or that helps to know if you're a listener

00:53:32.200 is that one of the ways that the teacher, Anna Stubblefield is her name, that she would

00:53:37.480 help Derek because he basically, at first, you see him or you think of him and you think

00:53:42.600 there's not a real him in there.

00:53:45.620 Well, there's a...

00:53:47.000 Well, I don't want to say that.

00:53:47.900 No, let's not put it that way.

00:53:49.840 But my people...

00:53:50.880 Listen, no, I don't know.

00:53:52.480 I'm trying my best.

00:53:53.940 But when you look at him, there's a him in there, but you don't know how much of him

00:53:57.740 there is.

00:53:58.160 And it's hard for us to see, a lot of times, the person that is inside sometimes of a person

00:54:03.900 that has a severe physical disability.

00:54:06.420 Yeah.

00:54:08.100 He's there, but he's...

00:54:09.360 And he's just got a profound disability and you don't know the nature of what he's capable

00:54:14.240 of.

00:54:14.640 Right.

00:54:15.260 And...

00:54:15.680 And she starts...

00:54:18.780 She starts...

00:54:19.780 Teaching.

00:54:20.600 She starts becoming...

00:54:22.120 She...

00:54:23.040 The facilitate...

00:54:23.980 The way that they start to communicate, it's called facilitated...

00:54:27.900 Facilitated communication.

00:54:29.020 In essence, what happens is she's called Anna, Anna.

00:54:32.100 I can't get you saying Anna, but that's how she says it, so...

00:54:35.220 And Derek's mom's called Daisy.

00:54:38.800 And it becomes almost a custody battle between them.

00:54:41.740 And the first inkling that something's wrong is that Anna starts saying, like, Daisy will

00:54:48.400 put some meat and potatoes down and Anna will go like, well, Derek really doesn't like

00:54:55.000 meat.

00:54:55.740 He's a vegetarian.

00:54:56.600 And his mom's like, what?

00:54:58.780 And he doesn't listen.

00:54:59.920 And she'll put gospel music on.

00:55:01.120 They're from a churchy family.

00:55:03.280 And Anna goes like, Derek doesn't...

00:55:06.200 Really doesn't like gospel.

00:55:07.860 He prefers classical.

00:55:09.740 And he likes...

00:55:11.000 He drinks red wine.

00:55:12.800 And, you know, and he prefers Cabernet.

00:55:14.680 And, like, all these sort of markers of what might be construed as sort of elite or slightly

00:55:22.180 refined...

00:55:23.280 Oh, I didn't even think about that.

00:55:24.580 Yeah.

00:55:24.600 So there's a sort of class thing, like...

00:55:26.660 And so Daisy's like, well, gospel's not good enough for him anymore.

00:55:29.640 Like, she feels offended.

00:55:31.240 Like, the son that she's always known is being kind of taken away from her.

00:55:37.100 Right.

00:55:37.740 And it's almost like a power play.

00:55:39.560 Like, I know him better than...

00:55:40.620 I'm not saying that as how Anna meets...

00:55:42.240 But that's certainly how it would come across to a mother.

00:55:44.420 And especially, I think, also a black mother, probably.

00:55:46.600 Who's like, yo, he's not going to eat my cooking.

00:55:49.100 Right.

00:55:49.600 Because he's a vegetarian.

00:55:50.820 Like, he only eats nut cutlets now.

00:55:53.380 Yeah, yeah.

00:55:53.860 He only eats, like, shortbreads or whatever.

00:55:56.380 He eats corn.

00:55:57.960 And I'm not trying to mischaracterize it.

00:56:01.520 Not at all.

00:56:02.100 We're joking around.

00:56:02.780 He only has a booyah base or whatever.

00:56:05.800 Yeah.

00:56:06.000 But she said he was a vegetarian.

00:56:07.760 Yeah.

00:56:07.900 And that's insane.

00:56:08.880 First of all, to say that a black guy's a vegetarian is...

00:56:12.640 Absolutely.

00:56:14.400 Nobody's going to believe that, dude.

00:56:16.440 Name 70 black vegetarians, dude.

00:56:19.080 Okay.

00:56:19.620 Maybe Arthur Ashe was one.

00:56:21.440 But that's it.

00:56:23.420 Nobody's buying that shit.

00:56:24.620 So out of the gate, the mom was like, hmm.

00:56:27.360 You know, so...

00:56:28.240 But I think...

00:56:28.800 So that's where it starts.

00:56:29.960 There's a glitch.

00:56:30.800 I see what you're saying.

00:56:31.660 And it spins out.

00:56:32.360 And then when she says...

00:56:33.900 And then they have the moment where they announce to Daisy and to Derek's brother, John,

00:56:40.280 that they're having a relationship.

00:56:42.820 And they sit down.

00:56:45.400 And it's Anna and Derek sit down with John and Daisy and say, like...

00:56:49.300 I don't know.

00:56:49.640 I think they might have been excited to break the news.

00:56:52.540 Of course.

00:56:53.920 But it's a sensitive thing, saying, like, not only are we...

00:56:56.960 Because they weren't saying, do we have...

00:56:58.660 I'd like permission to ask for your son's hand in marriage.

00:57:01.900 It wasn't like that.

00:57:02.620 It was like, by the way, we're doing it.

00:57:05.540 Like, we're already...

00:57:06.480 They said, we've been shagging a bit.

00:57:08.280 Yes.

00:57:08.820 Basically.

00:57:09.220 And we're in love.

00:57:10.040 Basically.

00:57:10.260 I don't think they used the term shagging.

00:57:12.820 But it was along those lines.

00:57:14.500 Yeah.

00:57:14.640 And I think it felt to Daisy and John like they still had a protective...

00:57:22.360 Because the kid's...

00:57:23.560 He's not a kid.

00:57:24.240 He's a young man.

00:57:25.080 The young man is vulnerable, right?

00:57:28.040 So they don't know...

00:57:29.140 And also, they don't want to think about...

00:57:31.060 Him sexual, probably.

00:57:32.240 Yeah, having adventurous sexual relations, like, with the woman who's basically got a caretaking role.

00:57:42.740 Right.

00:57:42.960 And it's a professional relationship.

00:57:44.980 It's a complicated power dynamic.

00:57:47.340 So the brother, John, he's so shocked, he goes and throws up.

00:57:52.160 He's like, it cuts him to the soul, like he feels so confused and befuddled by the relationship.

00:58:00.380 I mean, a lot of it is just also the awkwardness of...

00:58:04.200 You know, the bigger conversation is around...

00:58:06.400 Well, I was going to say disability.

00:58:08.940 Oh, okay.

00:58:09.840 Is that people who are very disabled, I say very...

00:58:12.800 But people who can't walk and, in fact, maybe can't actually feed themselves or who need round-the-clock assistance with day-to-day life

00:58:22.980 and may have, like, real cognitive delays, like where they seem to be incapable...

00:58:31.000 You know, they'll watch cartoons and enjoy life, but they're not going to be reading books and stuff.

00:58:37.460 A lot of people don't want to think about the sexual relations.

00:58:41.560 It's almost like they're infantilized and it's seen as inappropriate, that they have sexual desires.

00:58:46.540 Right.

00:58:47.440 But they do, of course they do, because they're full-grown people, right?

00:58:51.920 Yeah, they're going to...

00:58:52.560 To state the obvious.

00:58:53.160 And especially...

00:58:54.320 Well, one of the things you have to let people know, too, I think, is the way that Anna or Anna would communicate...

00:59:02.920 She...

00:59:03.320 There's like this sort of typewriter type of contraption.

00:59:09.180 It's almost like a first typewriter you would give a child to learn to do typing on.

00:59:13.500 Like a speak and spell.

00:59:14.220 Yeah, like a speak and spell.

00:59:15.780 And she would kind of guide his hand or hold his hand, because his hand would often kind of vibrate a lot.

00:59:21.680 So she would hold his hand as he would write out the different things he wanted to say.

00:59:27.580 So right there, it's just such a, like, who is the right...

00:59:31.480 Who is...

00:59:32.060 Yeah.

00:59:32.480 Is it mostly him?

00:59:33.720 Is she guiding based on things she wants?

00:59:36.380 Is she even unknowingly guiding based on things that she may want, because there's desires inside of us?

00:59:42.420 So the allegation, the contention by the skeptics would be that, because she had long conversations with him using that technique.

00:59:50.380 Right.

00:59:50.600 A little like a Ouija board would be the other analogy.

00:59:52.840 Good call.

00:59:53.160 You know, if you wanted to say that it was dubious and non-scientific, but the allegation would be that she was, in essence, having long conversations with herself and producing her ideal love partner, like someone who likes all the same thing.

01:00:10.440 You know what I mean?

01:00:10.860 Like a fan fiction, almost writing her own fan fiction or something.

01:00:13.840 Yeah, creating.

01:00:14.600 And, you know, I'll leave it to people, because it's sort of, viewers could go on the journey and figure out what they think happened.

01:00:23.080 But one version of events is that she was projecting a kind of idealized version and using Derek almost as a prop.

01:00:34.280 Like a Geppetto in a Pinocchio type.

01:00:36.380 I kind of...

01:00:37.000 She was puppeteering.

01:00:38.360 Yeah.

01:00:38.980 Yeah.

01:00:39.360 A real life human used as a prop.

01:00:41.980 But then it's so strange...

01:00:43.680 Right.

01:00:44.260 And certainly possible, for sure.

01:00:45.980 It feels so strange to want to go spend all that time with someone.

01:00:51.240 Oh, I should shout.

01:00:51.980 I need to mention the director, Nick August Perner, who did a brilliant job.

01:00:56.500 It's great.

01:00:56.960 Yeah, he's terrific.

01:00:58.160 And as much as I'm here talking about it, I was an executive producer on it, but it's his project.

01:01:06.840 He did it for super nice.

01:01:07.340 Bring him up.

01:01:07.740 Nick August Perner?

01:01:08.920 Nick August Perner.

01:01:10.560 August.

01:01:11.660 Let's get a picture of the man.

01:01:13.840 There we go.

01:01:14.780 There he is.

01:01:15.540 Perner.

01:01:15.920 Do Google.

01:01:16.680 There he is.

01:01:17.200 What a handsome man.

01:01:18.100 Look at his eyes.

01:01:20.440 Wow.

01:01:20.880 I don't want to look like that.

01:01:22.040 Is he Bangladeshi, you think?

01:01:25.600 I think he...

01:01:26.760 I don't know his...

01:01:28.360 You know, I never asked.

01:01:29.820 I don't think August Perner sounds like a Bangladeshi name, but I love that he's got beautiful,

01:01:37.560 swarthy skin and piercing blue eyes and a thick beard.

01:01:40.300 I used to have a beard like that, and then I got alopecia.

01:01:42.920 Did you really?

01:01:43.500 Yeah, my beard fell out.

01:01:44.900 Oh, my God.

01:01:45.920 And my hair's gone thin.

01:01:47.760 I have patches in my hair.

01:01:49.300 That's an exclusive.

01:01:50.300 I've never spoken about that on a podcast.

01:01:52.720 About having alopecia?

01:01:54.240 Yeah.

01:01:54.760 And is it a real thing you have to deal with all the time?

01:01:58.280 Well, it's always there.

01:02:00.080 It's there when I look in the mirror.

01:02:01.360 And if I touch my hair, I used to feel kind of thick, lustrous locks, like gorgeous, just

01:02:09.520 enjoyable.

01:02:11.280 Like a bit like your hair.

01:02:12.620 It's thin, though.

01:02:13.240 It starts to get thin.

01:02:13.880 And then little holes appear.

01:02:16.820 Can you see that?

01:02:17.860 And my beard.

01:02:18.620 It's coming back, but it's white.

01:02:20.300 I feel like one of those guys who's seen a ghost, and their hair goes white and falls out.

01:02:25.580 Oh, yeah.

01:02:27.400 That sounds very like a Scooby-Doo guy.

01:02:31.260 Yeah, does it stress you out, or do you care that much?

01:02:33.000 You already have a family.

01:02:33.880 You have a wife already.

01:02:34.580 I care a bit because I think my wife cares.

01:02:37.000 And the last thing I need is to be even less attractive to her.

01:02:40.360 Yeah, have another crisp Lindsay or whatever.

01:02:43.080 Yeah.

01:02:43.340 Nancy, like, he's coercive.

01:02:46.680 She doesn't sound like that.

01:02:47.700 He's coercive, and he's almost bald.

01:02:50.220 He's got patches in his hair.

01:02:51.660 You need to leave him.

01:02:53.320 He's no good for you.

01:02:55.900 Right?

01:02:57.220 And that's your daughter saying that.

01:02:59.060 Exactly.

01:02:59.960 He's no good for you.

01:03:01.400 Your wife's friends, you've got that to look forward to as like the toxic friend.

01:03:07.460 Yeah.

01:03:07.880 You're too good for him.

01:03:09.980 Oh, yeah.

01:03:10.820 Every girlfriend I've ever had has had that friend, for sure.

01:03:13.080 And they were right.

01:03:14.080 They were right.

01:03:15.220 She is too good for me.

01:03:16.360 They're all too good for us.

01:03:17.460 When you really, when it really comes down to it often.

01:03:19.600 She's so much better looking than I am.

01:03:21.220 Oh.

01:03:21.640 And I'm pitting so, but I was on TV when I met her.

01:03:24.620 So it was adjusted.

01:03:26.640 It was adjusted for celebrity.

01:03:28.180 It happens.

01:03:29.840 You know what?

01:03:30.460 One thing that I thought was interesting about tell them you love me, is that right?

01:03:34.940 Yeah.

01:03:35.620 Was that, so she kind of has the ability to guide his hand possibly, right?

01:03:41.200 Or probably does.

01:03:42.460 Some ability to guide it.

01:03:43.460 She has the ability and whether she's doing it is the question.

01:03:46.320 Right.

01:03:46.700 And only she kind of knows.

01:03:48.900 Yeah.

01:03:49.420 Like there's some studies in there that a doctor or a scientist does.

01:03:53.340 It helps you get a little bit of inclination, but even then you're not fully sure.

01:03:58.000 Because some people say like, we're the keys to each other's locks, right?

01:04:02.260 Like when we, maybe when we join hands, something more magical can happen, you know?

01:04:08.700 But then also I start to think about like the ownership now of like social media and these

01:04:17.860 bigger corporations that own a lot of the platforms that we communicate on.

01:04:21.940 Because they can dictate if we're even allowed to say certain things.

01:04:27.340 You know, it's like you might write what you really want to say, but at some point they

01:04:31.780 can say, well, we understand what you'd like to say, but you're only allowed to say these

01:04:37.980 things.

01:04:38.320 Are you okay if we format it for that?

01:04:40.800 And you have to say yes.

01:04:41.800 And if you hit no, it just asks you the question again.

01:04:46.060 I mean, I just.

01:04:46.840 Does that happen?

01:04:47.700 Is that real?

01:04:48.460 It just feels like that's very much where we're headed.

01:04:51.460 Like they give you a certain amount of emojis.

01:04:54.020 You don't get all of them.

01:04:56.700 True.

01:04:57.360 If you want to feel belittled, you must, you have to pay $2,000 a month for that

01:05:01.700 emoji.

01:05:02.620 I just wonder if that's what, you know what I'm saying?

01:05:04.500 What color are you in your emojis?

01:05:07.220 Like when you, you know, the smiley face, did you opt for the white one?

01:05:10.660 Because I'm sticking with yellow.

01:05:12.060 And increasingly, I wonder if.

01:05:13.820 It's very Asian.

01:05:14.740 That's a bold choice.

01:05:15.980 A lot of Asians would be upset about it too.

01:05:17.940 Would they though?

01:05:18.820 Because it's a bright puce yellow.

01:05:21.360 It's no yellow that's found in the human condition.

01:05:24.760 I would agree with you.

01:05:25.700 What emoji?

01:05:27.660 Because you know, there's a certain point where the first time you use a reaction, it

01:05:32.520 gives you a choice.

01:05:33.840 So now you have a dilemma.

01:05:35.460 Do I go white?

01:05:37.160 Do I go off white?

01:05:38.620 Do I go beige?

01:05:39.960 I think it depends on what neighborhood I'm driving through at the time sometimes.

01:05:43.180 Really?

01:05:43.800 Oh yeah.

01:05:44.260 Because I'll be like, you know, this is what's going on around here.

01:05:48.260 Because you're, and you're half Nicaraguan.

01:05:50.940 So you must, did you go white or off white?

01:05:53.080 I'll go off white.

01:05:54.520 I'll go Middle Eastern sometimes.

01:05:56.540 So you keep choosing different ones?

01:05:58.120 Oh yeah, I'll throw a sand brother out there, dude.

01:06:00.160 Yeah, I'll do it all, man.

01:06:01.540 Because you got to keep people on the edge.

01:06:03.660 I mean, I don't even choose the pregnant guy nowadays.

01:06:07.140 You know?

01:06:07.880 It's like, what are we even fucking doing?

01:06:10.720 Is there a pregnant guy?

01:06:12.280 There's a fucking pregnant guy.

01:06:14.060 What are we doing?

01:06:16.060 They're trying to legalize all that, you know?

01:06:18.760 But do you worry about that?

01:06:20.300 About like censorship and what will be allowed?

01:06:24.080 I've said this before, but it's like, it used to be like you wrote on the paper, right?

01:06:29.140 And now you can still write on the paper.

01:06:31.800 But what if the-

01:06:32.320 On a piece of paper.

01:06:32.980 Yes, you can.

01:06:33.520 But what if the paper, what if they own, what if-

01:06:35.920 I think I got shadow banned.

01:06:37.460 I don't know what for.

01:06:38.940 Well, here you go.

01:06:40.040 I don't know what for.

01:06:40.960 Either that or it's so boring that they were like, we got to stop putting, we got to

01:06:46.040 He's making the platform look bad.

01:06:48.640 His tweets are so banal.

01:06:50.900 Just dial them right down.

01:06:53.120 He's making everyone-

01:06:54.460 You know, when I did Joe Rogan's podcast, I did it twice.

01:06:57.220 And when he moved to Spotify, do you remember that big deal?

01:06:59.880 And they gave him like 10,000 million, whatever dollars.

01:07:03.900 Yeah.

01:07:04.360 And some of them, they took off.

01:07:07.160 Like they took some episodes.

01:07:08.420 They took one of yours off?

01:07:09.080 So they took the most contentious, like these are two, we can't put this on Spotify.

01:07:14.440 This is too inflammatory.

01:07:16.280 And one of mine was taken off.

01:07:18.740 But I think it was taken off because I was so boring.

01:07:22.020 I just can't, because I said it's nothing.

01:07:25.140 But I loved that I might be too spicy.

01:07:27.660 Yeah.

01:07:28.060 And I was like, they've taken me down.

01:07:30.660 You know, like I've been made, they made me, they canceled me.

01:07:34.740 Yeah.

01:07:35.100 But it was, I think, because the first time I did Rogan, I didn't know how big he was.

01:07:39.700 And you know how he kind of plays a reactive game?

01:07:42.620 Like, in other words, he doesn't go on and say like, I've watched all your programs.

01:07:46.600 I'm not going to do, I was going to do an English accent.

01:07:47.980 I don't know why.

01:07:48.380 Here's Joe Rogan.

01:07:49.140 I've watched all your programs and I've done a lot of research.

01:07:53.620 And he's more like, hey, welcome.

01:07:55.460 How's it going?

01:07:56.220 And I was like, I'm very reactive as well.

01:07:59.120 So it was kind of like, how are you doing?

01:08:00.960 I'm like, good.

01:08:01.420 How are you doing?

01:08:02.560 Good.

01:08:02.880 And then it was like two hours went by and it kind of got into a groove a bit.

01:08:09.580 Yeah.

01:08:10.500 I mean, it's probably fine.

01:08:11.840 I haven't got.

01:08:12.240 I listened to it.

01:08:12.980 The one I listened to, I thought was fine.

01:08:14.380 That was good.

01:08:14.820 The second one I went back and I was like, oh, I get it.

01:08:17.500 Maybe that was it.

01:08:18.480 Yeah.

01:08:18.760 The second one was fine.

01:08:19.920 So I'm quite glad that they, but your point was about, so yeah, I think they shadow banned

01:08:24.460 me on Twitter.

01:08:25.940 I can't prove it.

01:08:29.120 Instagram, I'm okay.

01:08:30.360 I can put a picture of my, I could just, I can tell you, I could just do a selfie and

01:08:35.820 put it on, on Instagram and it goes viral.

01:08:39.180 Like, I don't know why.

01:08:40.240 But you know, if I say I've got alopecia and I'm feeling sad, you know, like cynical, what

01:08:45.160 do they call that?

01:08:45.940 I'll put three black dude emojis in there.

01:08:48.000 If you say that, dude, just to spice things up.

01:08:49.960 You think that would make a difference?

01:08:51.200 Oh yeah, dude.

01:08:52.480 You bring a brother in, it adds some heat to the situation.

01:08:55.300 I, when I, cause I've listened to your content and you go close to the line.

01:08:58.160 I'm like, I better check out how, like what's the closest Theo's got to being canceled.

01:09:02.900 Some of it.

01:09:03.580 But you've never been canceled.

01:09:05.220 No, I've never been, you know, like, I don't know.

01:09:07.380 Like, I think a lot of times I'm kind of like just having a good time.

01:09:11.020 You get a free pass.

01:09:11.940 So I think because you're a comedian and people are like, he's just having, he's goofing around.

01:09:16.160 And you're like, people know, I feel like a lot of times, like you're saying, even just

01:09:20.260 running in a live Tyler for 30 seconds and getting a menthol offer.

01:09:23.760 Yeah.

01:09:24.360 You sometimes can know where people.

01:09:26.560 But didn't you used to work out with David Duke?

01:09:28.920 They're harder at.

01:09:29.980 Yeah.

01:09:31.360 And yeah, we just, all we did was fitness, dude.

01:09:34.480 Did you like, what's it called?

01:09:35.780 Did you spot him?

01:09:37.100 Is that the term?

01:09:38.240 Does that mean something?

01:09:39.180 I don't know if it means anything beyond the fact that you're right there assisting him

01:09:42.920 in that moment.

01:09:43.900 Would he be like, hey, Thea, would you spot me?

01:09:47.360 Would you, what could he bench?

01:09:49.180 He was strong.

01:09:50.260 Was he?

01:09:51.560 He was strong.

01:09:53.300 I mean, he.

01:09:54.540 Did you try and be, were you trying to be a positive influence on him or would that,

01:09:58.020 would that have been inappropriate?

01:09:59.640 No, I was using steroids.

01:10:01.000 I think at the time I was just trying to fricking be jacked out there, dude.

01:10:04.460 I was trying to flirt with his chick, dude.

01:10:06.020 His girl was so, she was just a gorgeous, she didn't do anything at the restaurant.

01:10:12.000 Like she worked there, but I don't even know if she knew what her job was.

01:10:14.460 She was just so pretty.

01:10:15.500 People would just do everything for her, you know, like one of those maidens or whatever,

01:10:19.820 you know.

01:10:20.400 Did you, but did you, you would have been what, 19, 20?

01:10:23.660 Did you, and you knew he was like politically.

01:10:26.660 I, well, I'd seen, they used to have signs in, in Louisiana.

01:10:29.880 It was David Duke versus Edwin Edwards, and he was a famed history, a famed political figure

01:10:36.260 in Louisiana who had stolen tons of money, like most of them.

01:10:41.100 And his, the, the campaign slogan was don't vote for the racist, vote for the crook.

01:10:47.640 Those were the posters.

01:10:49.860 So you knew.

01:10:50.800 I'm surprised he authorized that.

01:10:52.500 But I think people would rather be stolen from, at the time people would rather be stolen

01:10:56.320 from than have a little bit of racism be going on.

01:10:58.420 And he's, but Duke got a majority of the white vote.

01:11:01.920 He might've done okay.

01:11:03.200 Yeah.

01:11:03.700 I don't remember.

01:11:04.240 That's a good question.

01:11:05.520 What was the runoff vote between David Duke or the David Duke and Edwin Edwards?

01:11:08.920 Well, first of all, Duke, he, he, he got the, whatever, was it the Republican nomination?

01:11:14.760 Like he ran for Senate.

01:11:15.960 Did he really?

01:11:16.520 Yeah.

01:11:16.780 He got, and then got the majority of the white vote in the race, in the final race.

01:11:19.940 When I knew him, he was just doing chest and tries, you know, like that's what he was

01:11:22.940 doing.

01:11:23.360 Was he?

01:11:23.760 Yeah.

01:11:24.320 I don't even know what, yeah.

01:11:25.620 How do you, yeah, I'm trying to work out and be,

01:11:27.980 I'm trying to get more hench.

01:11:30.760 As you get older, you lose muscle mass.

01:11:32.860 I know that's scary about being alive.

01:11:34.020 I want to be attractive for my wife.

01:11:35.960 Oh, Nancy.

01:11:37.100 Oh, Nancy.

01:11:39.320 What does it say?

01:11:40.180 Does it, I can't, I can't even read that, but basically, oh, was he the Democrat?

01:11:44.740 No.

01:11:44.960 In 75, he lost to Kenneth Osterberger.

01:11:49.020 In 79.

01:11:51.420 He was the Republican, Bennett, Bennett Johnson.

01:11:54.200 What is that?

01:11:54.620 He was the incumbent.

01:11:55.400 He got 40, Duke got 43% to 53.

01:11:58.880 Yeah.

01:11:59.300 Not bad.

01:11:59.840 United States Senate election.

01:12:00.880 I mean, that's wild.

01:12:03.740 I don't know if at that time, was he still that guy though?

01:12:08.160 I don't, he may have been.

01:12:09.300 He was.

01:12:09.720 Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of old, there's a lot of racism in the South, you know?

01:12:15.180 And there's a lot of racism that goes both ways in the South too.

01:12:17.440 There's a lot of black folks that do not like white people.

01:12:20.360 For real?

01:12:22.380 Tons, dude.

01:12:25.080 Tons.

01:12:25.520 Anyway.

01:12:25.860 It always gets looked at as the other way only, but there's a lot of, it's like.

01:12:30.220 But they're, they're making, they're making up for lost time.

01:12:33.260 I agree that there's some of that in there for sure.

01:12:35.100 They're like, we got to get Simone back.

01:12:41.260 But I think.

01:12:42.020 The documentary's called, no.

01:12:43.540 Sometimes, one of the tough things you have in now is there's so much crime in a lot of

01:12:47.000 the black communities and it's very unfortunate.

01:12:49.300 I've made documentaries about gangster rap.

01:12:51.660 Yeah.

01:12:52.020 I made a couple and one was in.

01:12:53.940 Well, I wish they were just rapping.

01:12:55.260 Unfortunately, a lot of these men are shooting each other for no reason.

01:12:57.880 Yeah.

01:12:58.480 Rapping seems like the only.

01:12:59.720 It's heartbreaking, man.

01:13:00.400 Two of my good friends have died.

01:13:01.640 My black friends have died from.

01:13:02.800 It's the only part of show business where like.

01:13:05.560 Died from being killed, obviously, but sorry, died from just miscellaneous other men shooting

01:13:11.000 them for no reason.

01:13:12.420 It seems like it's the only branch of show business where actually killing someone is

01:13:16.580 not necessarily a career ender.

01:13:20.300 Rap music?

01:13:20.960 Mm-hmm.

01:13:21.300 That's a good call.

01:13:22.680 Right.

01:13:22.920 Because you look at Gucci Mane.

01:13:25.740 He killed someone.

01:13:26.800 They said, yeah, well, it was self-defense.

01:13:29.140 Yeah.

01:13:30.060 And no one really minded.

01:13:33.100 Yeah.

01:13:33.280 Well, what's his name?

01:13:34.700 Just shot, killed someone at a Walmart not long ago.

01:13:37.020 Who was that?

01:13:37.180 Alec Baldwin?

01:13:38.040 Huh?

01:13:38.480 Yeah.

01:13:39.840 Again?

01:13:42.080 That would be like, okay.

01:13:43.580 No, that's hilarious, dude.

01:13:45.060 That's too much.

01:13:45.360 Thank you for that.

01:13:46.140 Okay.

01:13:46.660 That was awesome, dude.

01:13:50.000 Alec Baldwin.

01:13:51.160 I mean, every week he's fucking shooting somebody.

01:13:54.960 He wasn't even shooting a movie.

01:13:56.860 I know.

01:13:57.280 He just fucking.

01:13:58.920 And I think that's his defense.

01:14:00.260 He's like, I thought we were shooting a movie, you know?

01:14:02.580 Like, come on.

01:14:04.040 That's crazy.

01:14:05.280 That's too much.

01:14:06.600 I love how he's on trial for this.

01:14:08.380 They hand him a gun.

01:14:09.640 Yeah.

01:14:09.940 He fucking shoots it.

01:14:11.560 Yeah.

01:14:11.920 And the person who gave it to him.

01:14:13.560 It's sad.

01:14:14.280 It's just the whole thing is just bad news.

01:14:16.200 But yeah, somebody just killed somebody at a Walmart and they're getting off.

01:14:18.920 Oh, DaBaby did.

01:14:20.060 Yeah, DaBaby.

01:14:20.680 DaBaby.

01:14:20.980 Yeah.

01:14:21.300 I heard he was in the adult section.

01:14:23.480 That's the crazy part.

01:14:27.280 Okay.

01:14:27.820 That's enough of that.

01:14:28.720 There we go.

01:14:29.500 I was going to say, though.

01:14:30.660 It's a great documentary that you made.

01:14:32.180 Yeah.

01:14:32.400 And the truth is, is the part, one of the things that his mom, Daisy, says at the end,

01:14:37.280 he's like, but now he still hasn't recovered.

01:14:41.640 He masturbates.

01:14:44.020 And if you.

01:14:45.580 And she basically blames Anna for the fact that.

01:14:48.760 Getting him started.

01:14:49.340 She's caught, she's caught Derek jacking off.

01:14:53.320 And you're thinking like, he's a 35 year old man living at home.

01:14:57.580 What kind of world is she living in that she thinks that's pathological?

01:15:02.640 Do you know what I mean?

01:15:03.580 Right.

01:15:03.840 Like, what else would he be doing at home?

01:15:09.320 You know what I mean?

01:15:09.640 By himself all day.

01:15:10.640 By himself all day with no girlfriend.

01:15:12.940 Yeah.

01:15:13.720 I just put two extra Ottomans in the middle of the room and let him figure it out, you

01:15:17.320 know, to be honest with you.

01:15:18.160 Yeah.

01:15:18.440 That's what a lot of kids need, you know, if he's at that, that stage in his wellbeing.

01:15:22.340 Or send in, like, I don't know if this is like considered kosher or not, but aren't

01:15:28.620 there nurses who can do that?

01:15:30.520 And by the way, a nurse can be a man or a woman, but aren't there nurses that can go

01:15:34.800 in and, and isn't that part of therapy?

01:15:37.480 Like that you, I would agree.

01:15:39.300 That you would be allowed, like someone would.

01:15:41.700 Do a milking of them.

01:15:42.600 Yeah.

01:15:44.460 Yeah.

01:15:44.920 I don't see how that's not a service.

01:15:46.760 Right.

01:15:47.380 You can get, oh dude, you can get somebody to deliver you like a, a damn power tools at

01:15:52.120 midnight, but I can't get somebody to come over and relieve my cousin Ricky or something

01:15:58.860 at two, two in the afternoon.

01:16:01.500 I totally agree with you though.

01:16:02.860 They do that in Holland.

01:16:03.920 Holland, you know how Holland's ahead on all this stuff?

01:16:07.020 Like they would, they, they do that, I think in Belgium, probably.

01:16:10.700 Bring that up.

01:16:11.820 If anybody's milking, I don't know what the term is really.

01:16:15.380 If some people are exasperating the, um.

01:16:18.640 I think it's called, there is a word for, there's a polite word.

01:16:22.420 There's a kind of medical word that makes it sound okay.

01:16:24.720 Something very British.

01:16:25.600 Yeah.

01:16:26.580 If people are, um.

01:16:28.220 Yeah.

01:16:28.660 Manual relief or, or assisted ejaculatory.

01:16:34.300 Assisted ejaculation.

01:16:35.380 Bring that up.

01:16:37.020 Actually, no, that's going to fucking.

01:16:39.640 And I'm 22 days off of pornography right now.

01:16:42.140 So.

01:16:42.340 Are you?

01:16:42.780 Oh, thank you.

01:16:43.640 Thank God.

01:16:44.440 But how does that.

01:16:45.300 Longest I've been in a long time.

01:16:46.140 How does that feel?

01:16:47.600 And you're in a hotel too.

01:16:49.920 Where are you in a B&B?

01:16:51.260 I'm in a hotel.

01:16:52.500 Oh, I'll, I'll, yeah.

01:16:53.700 I'll, it doesn't matter what kind of place I'm in.

01:16:55.880 I'll bust.

01:16:56.520 Really?

01:16:56.960 Yeah.

01:16:57.560 But I haven't been.

01:16:58.620 Why not?

01:16:59.920 22 days off of masturbation.

01:17:02.680 Something like that.

01:17:03.340 And off of pornography.

01:17:04.700 Um.

01:17:05.460 I just have gotten into like this, this other program.

01:17:07.820 I have like a kind of a, I got to check in and make sure just like, I just don't want

01:17:12.520 to do it anymore.

01:17:13.480 Yeah.

01:17:13.780 I wasn't having a problem with it, but it just had been a long part of my life where

01:17:17.060 it's like, oh, this is habitual and I don't like it.

01:17:20.060 How does it make you feel not doing it?

01:17:22.500 It makes me feel more empowered and it makes me feel proud.

01:17:25.700 Like a little bit.

01:17:26.560 There's a part of me that makes me feel that feels proud of myself.

01:17:29.400 Is that crazy to say?

01:17:32.920 You could get a bumper sticker or something.

01:17:34.920 I wonder the best way of honoring that.

01:17:37.120 Like a little.

01:17:37.500 Like I would say.

01:17:38.060 Like a little.

01:17:38.500 Don't bump me too hard.

01:17:39.740 Yeah.

01:17:41.880 Proudly.

01:17:42.240 What did it say?

01:17:42.860 Proudly 50 days, non-jacking off.

01:17:45.560 What would be, uh, yeah.

01:17:47.480 Is there a support group for that?

01:17:49.140 There are.

01:17:50.260 There is.

01:17:51.320 Yeah.

01:17:51.860 Cause a lot of it's just about like, just making sure you're not looking at pornography.

01:17:55.300 I just want that stuff influencing my thoughts and feelings.

01:17:57.880 Cause then you start to like, whenever.

01:18:00.080 It intrudes into daily life.

01:18:01.620 A hundred percent.

01:18:02.580 Well, when you're engaged in sex, you think of it in like frames of shot.

01:18:05.680 You're not even involved in like a real connection with someone, you know?

01:18:09.500 And after years of that and stuff, it's just, for me, it was really unhealthy.

01:18:13.760 So what are your vices now then?

01:18:16.040 Vaping, probably.

01:18:17.680 Drawing pictures of tits.

01:18:19.340 A lot of times, like if I'm sitting around and I'm with a napkin or something, I notice

01:18:23.340 I'll just look down and suddenly there's like six or seven sets of breasts or whatever,

01:18:27.880 tits or whatever.

01:18:28.500 Some people call them tits.

01:18:29.540 I call them that.

01:18:31.060 Um, what else?

01:18:33.000 Having some chocolates, probably.

01:18:34.620 Not drink, you don't drink at all.

01:18:36.360 Mm-mm.

01:18:37.180 What about, are you California sober?

01:18:39.280 Mm-mm.

01:18:39.960 You know that term.

01:18:41.080 Yeah, you can still smoke pot.

01:18:42.400 Yeah, and take mushrooms too.

01:18:44.040 No, I've done like the microdosing or whatever.

01:18:46.660 And I've done ayahuasca, you know?

01:18:48.400 Have you?

01:18:48.900 And that's really fascinating.

01:18:50.380 That's fascinating.

01:18:51.540 Do you want to see something you never thought could happen on earth?

01:18:54.360 Go try that.

01:18:55.600 It's like getting abducted by aliens.

01:18:57.000 It's almost as crazy as that.

01:18:58.180 I'm scared.

01:18:59.320 You've never been abducted by aliens.

01:19:01.620 I don't know.

01:19:02.380 No, which is, I think, what any good man should answer, Louie.

01:19:07.980 Yeah, right.

01:19:08.500 It's possible.

01:19:09.860 I'm a little scared of the ayahuasca because the people I've spoken to,

01:19:13.960 they're like, yeah, it is really heavy.

01:19:16.160 And they'll say, and the person next to me,

01:19:18.220 they were like, it was a pretty good trip,

01:19:19.580 but the person next to me was screaming and thought they were dying.

01:19:24.500 So that kind of harshed my mellow a little bit.

01:19:27.160 And I'm thinking, I might be that guy.

01:19:29.080 Yeah, that person could have also just been Scottish as well, you know?

01:19:32.040 Because I know they can get very verbose at times.

01:19:35.820 Do you think so?

01:19:36.440 Yeah, the Scots.

01:19:37.820 Well, the whole thing's fascinating to me about the British.

01:19:40.900 No, I think you would love it, man.

01:19:42.940 Did we get anything on carfentanil?

01:19:44.960 10,000 times more powerful than morphine.

01:19:48.260 A hundred times more potent than fentanyl.

01:19:50.720 I told you.

01:19:52.180 The presence of carfentanil in illicit U.S. drug markets is cause for concern as.

01:19:57.020 And that's the nice thing.

01:19:58.300 If you're going to do cocaine, come to England.

01:20:01.060 What's the, look at the chemical formula is C24, H20, N203.

01:20:07.340 I mean.

01:20:08.320 Look up a little bit more carfentanil.

01:20:09.560 Go to Wikipedia right there.

01:20:11.860 Who would, you would just have to walk past it.

01:20:14.980 Effects and side effects in humans are similar to those of other opioids that include euphoria,

01:20:19.600 relaxation, pain relief, pupil constriction, sedation, slowed heart rate, low blood pressure,

01:20:26.280 lower body temperature.

01:20:27.040 You know, a lot of people choke to death when they take these drugs because they then they're

01:20:31.280 on it.

01:20:31.840 They think they're okay.

01:20:32.760 They eat.

01:20:33.340 The muscles in their throat don't work.

01:20:36.000 Right.

01:20:36.600 And then they choke.

01:20:37.660 And they choke to death.

01:20:38.980 So you just imagine you're having a piece of chicken and you love it.

01:20:42.980 And you can't swallow it.

01:20:47.060 You tried to swallow it.

01:20:48.160 You did the normal.

01:20:49.740 And your fucking neck breaks down.

01:20:54.000 That's hideous.

01:20:55.160 You wouldn't think you'd be that hungry.

01:20:57.800 You know what I mean?

01:20:58.400 Like, it's like I'm higher than I've ever been.

01:21:03.440 But what I really want is a chicken sandwich.

01:21:05.360 It seems a strange, you know what I mean?

01:21:10.600 Yeah, it really does.

01:21:11.300 Like, I'm still not happy.

01:21:13.220 Yeah.

01:21:14.800 I don't know.

01:21:15.720 No, I think, yeah, that's a very, but every now and then you'll be shocked sometimes when

01:21:19.920 you'll try to do some food when you're hungry.

01:21:22.860 You'll be surprised.

01:21:23.900 You're like, oh, I didn't expect.

01:21:25.160 That's the worst.

01:21:26.120 I remember I'd be all coked up or something and make a nice meal and then I'd want to

01:21:29.600 eat it.

01:21:30.600 Just fucking do more drugs.

01:21:32.620 But it's exciting being on Netflix with the doc.

01:21:35.820 And for us, like, it took us six years to make this.

01:21:40.780 I mean, that was just to, and I joined Nick.

01:21:43.500 Like, Nick had already been, the director had already been making it for a couple of years.

01:21:46.800 Wow.

01:21:47.520 So, like, it's an eight, nine year journey.

01:21:50.620 And to finally land it, not just in the UK because it came out here first, but on a big

01:21:54.980 streamer like Netflix feels, feels big for us, feels like a thrill.

01:21:59.920 I know you've, you've got your specials on Netflix.

01:22:02.520 They're the big game.

01:22:03.360 They're the big game in town now.

01:22:04.840 Yeah, they're good.

01:22:05.700 It's definitely.

01:22:06.440 Did you have a good experience with them?

01:22:08.280 Yeah, I think so.

01:22:09.020 They actually made us, they told the fans like that were coming to shoot at the, at

01:22:13.800 the comedy special, the last one that they had to have COVID vaccinations like the day,

01:22:18.220 like literally three days before last time.

01:22:20.980 So, or maybe even no joke, two days before.

01:22:23.460 And I thought that that was kind of fucking weird.

01:22:26.740 Yeah.

01:22:27.260 You know?

01:22:27.700 So everyone, so it wasn't enough that you get tested.

01:22:31.340 You actually had to get vaxxed.

01:22:32.960 Right.

01:22:33.600 For real.

01:22:34.680 And so that made a lot of people be like, fuck them, you know?

01:22:37.640 Yeah.

01:22:37.860 I mean, people love Netflix, but at the same, because we're addicted to it.

01:22:41.380 But at the same time, I think people, there's, well, here's one of the things I noticed

01:22:46.660 personally.

01:22:47.100 Like, so I went to the last Blockbuster.

01:22:48.840 Did you ever have Blockbuster videos here?

01:22:50.080 Of course.

01:22:50.840 Beautiful places, right?

01:22:51.740 I used to use it a lot.

01:22:52.940 That was Netflix before Netflix.

01:22:55.040 100%.

01:22:55.480 And it's still functioning.

01:22:56.780 You can go in there.

01:22:57.600 It looks just like the ones you used to have.

01:22:59.120 There's a kind of disgruntled person behind the desk.

01:23:01.600 One thing I noticed about that Blockbuster is the autonomy you have when you're, I think,

01:23:06.580 I don't know if autonomy is a word, but the amount of just you, when you're walking around

01:23:10.260 looking, there's so many options of things to look at and see.

01:23:13.840 You're like, oh, I forgot about this.

01:23:15.520 I'd love to see this.

01:23:16.640 Look at this.

01:23:17.300 What about this?

01:23:18.380 Whereas once you get onto one of the streamers, it's really only what they want you to see.

01:23:23.880 You have to, unless you know exactly what you're looking for.

01:23:26.540 But before, but it's so hard for our brain to keep all that catalog.

01:23:31.060 So for them to have all that catalog, but you don't really get to peruse it, really.

01:23:35.980 It was a total different experience.

01:23:37.920 It's like, and the joy you felt kind of finding something a little bit physically, like, oh,

01:23:43.780 let's watch this and things you never even thought existed anymore, you know?

01:23:48.940 So then you kind of get channeled into only what is happening now in a way.

01:23:53.520 So I think it's also going to be tougher for movies to become classics or like build up

01:23:59.040 that indie fervor sometimes.

01:24:01.540 You're definitely a victim of the algorithm and that's a soft kind of influence.

01:24:06.120 It's not censorship, obviously, but what it is, is a kind of curating of your experience.

01:24:11.300 Obviously, they want you to watch as much as possible.

01:24:13.220 So they don't want to feed you things you don't like.

01:24:15.860 Yeah.

01:24:16.100 But it keeps you in your lane a little bit is the risk.

01:24:20.020 Yeah.

01:24:20.480 But maybe they'll have like, when they get further along with things like VR, you will

01:24:26.220 be able to kind of go inside the TV, right?

01:24:29.460 And look around on the shelves.

01:24:31.020 That would be amazing.

01:24:31.820 Don't you think?

01:24:32.540 You would hope that that's what they're headed towards because, yeah, just that's

01:24:36.120 That experience was so, it just brought me back to, oh, I have some say in what I choose.

01:24:41.800 Whereas this felt like I don't have as much say.

01:24:44.240 But I was one of those guys who would rent something and then weeks would go by and I

01:24:49.700 would still not have watched it.

01:24:51.300 I think I had Blade Runner for like three weeks.

01:24:53.600 Everyone did.

01:24:54.860 That'll get, that gets expensive.

01:24:56.880 Oh, yeah.

01:24:57.320 It would stack up and you'd be embarrassed taking it back.

01:24:59.860 Yeah.

01:25:00.480 And you'd say, give me a, come on, give me a break.

01:25:02.460 And sometimes they would bring it down a little bit.

01:25:05.900 Sometimes they give you some snow caps or something.

01:25:07.760 I'm like, I need a fucking financial break here.

01:25:10.340 But do you remember like when they, you're probably too young, but when videos first came

01:25:13.840 along and it was a new technology, it was kind of like before Blockbuster, everyone,

01:25:19.580 everyone thought I could make money with this.

01:25:21.700 So you would pop into the dry cleaners and then have a little video section or your, or

01:25:27.400 the, the 7-Eleven or like the local candy shop.

01:25:30.520 Right.

01:25:31.240 And, and they'd have a little like 15 video library.

01:25:35.460 You know what I mean?

01:25:36.000 I didn't even know that.

01:25:36.980 Yeah.

01:25:37.180 It was weird.

01:25:38.040 That's awesome.

01:25:38.500 And then there was a winnowing and they're like, you know, we should, this is ridiculous.

01:25:41.660 We need to have some place that just does that.

01:25:44.640 We had a place called Pat's Shrimp and Video and you could get you a pound of shrimp and

01:25:49.080 get you a movie over there.

01:25:50.160 In Covington.

01:25:50.860 Yeah.

01:25:51.620 It was nice to get you a little bit of shrimp, get you a little film or something.

01:25:55.300 You know what you'll find over here is that I think the chocolate's a little bit better.

01:25:58.700 100%.

01:25:59.020 And if you go in, I know disrespecting them, maybe they're one of your sponsors, but

01:26:01.960 Hershey, Hershey's chocolate, I'm not a big fan of.

01:26:06.040 Me neither, honestly.

01:26:06.920 And I'll say that out loud.

01:26:07.860 Yeah.

01:26:08.560 Come on.

01:26:08.980 Fuck those guys.

01:26:09.900 Well, it's just shit chocolate.

01:26:11.300 What are you fucking making for people?

01:26:12.720 I think, I actually think, and you can check this, they could not legally sell that as

01:26:19.280 chocolate in the EU.

01:26:20.700 Wow.

01:26:21.260 Because they'd be like, there's not enough chocolate in the chocolate.

01:26:24.680 Right?

01:26:25.200 I'm serious.

01:26:25.880 Oh, 100%.

01:26:26.600 You know, because the cocoa content would be, they'd be like, this is Vegulate.

01:26:29.400 We can call it Vegulate.

01:26:30.420 Right.

01:26:30.720 If you want to call it Hershey's Vegulate, but we can't call it chocolate.

01:26:34.700 Yeah.

01:26:35.500 Because it tastes, it's very sweet, but it doesn't have the richness.

01:26:38.840 Yeah.

01:26:38.980 Like we can call it African-American butter if you want, you know?

01:26:41.980 And like, well, it doesn't need to be racialized.

01:26:44.700 We just need it to be actual chocolate, you know?

01:26:48.200 Yeah.

01:26:48.360 You would think though, also in America that has had a lot of history with African-Americans,

01:26:52.420 you think at least they would put the appropriate amount of African-American in the chocolate,

01:26:59.340 dude.

01:26:59.920 That's the kind of shit that pisses me off.

01:27:02.720 Hershey's lawsuit sparked British revolt for superior Cadbury chocolate.

01:27:06.160 But I will say this.

01:27:07.680 When you walk into some of the chocolatiers that are in Britain, it feels like you are.

01:27:12.900 Oh, yeah.

01:27:13.660 It feels regal.

01:27:14.780 It feels royal.

01:27:15.480 It feels real.

01:27:16.620 And if you go to Belgium, forget about it.

01:27:18.740 Really?

01:27:19.320 Yes.

01:27:19.920 Oh.

01:27:20.180 I mean, it's ridiculous.

01:27:21.860 Like it's actually, it's like being in Tiffany's, like a jewelry store.

01:27:26.720 It's that, it's so redolent of class and kind of gourmet values.

01:27:33.240 And the things are exquisite.

01:27:34.680 Like they just make beautiful objects out of the chocolate.

01:27:39.720 Presentations, yeah.

01:27:40.280 The presentation is off the scale.

01:27:42.320 Yeah, we haven't.

01:27:43.100 Have you tried Revels?

01:27:44.060 Do you know what?

01:27:44.480 No.

01:27:44.660 Try some Revels while you're over here.

01:27:46.080 Is it good?

01:27:46.960 It's a mixture of different, I just like, you don't know what you're going to get when

01:27:51.680 you put your hand in.

01:27:52.740 And then they used to have, like they have a raisin one, like a crunchy honeycomb one.

01:27:58.360 There'd be an orange one, a coffee one.

01:28:01.560 And they used to have a peanut one.

01:28:03.020 Oh, yeah.

01:28:03.420 And then they have to, they discontinued that because of the allergy issues.

01:28:09.200 Yeah, but those people, we don't need them on earth, I think.

01:28:11.240 People would say, like, the joke was like, you know, people with allergies would use

01:28:16.180 it like it was Russian roulette.

01:28:17.940 Oh, I love that, huh?

01:28:18.540 You know, I have one, I don't know if this is going to kill me or not.

01:28:22.060 The thrill, I don't know if anyone actually would do that.

01:28:24.620 But a little part, I'm not going to be the guy who's like, is health and safety gone mad?

01:28:29.640 I mean, we don't want people to die from eating a chocolate.

01:28:31.920 But a little part of me was like, well, so we can't have fucking peanut Revels anymore

01:28:37.300 just because.

01:28:38.480 That's a huge part.

01:28:39.280 But I think at a certain point, you have to go with the status quo.

01:28:42.500 I was in a movie theater once and I was, I had my, I think I had pick and mix.

01:28:49.480 You know what that is?

01:28:50.400 Okay.

01:28:50.800 You just select different sweets and candies, you know, a bit of them, a bit of them, but

01:28:55.480 you make your own bag.

01:28:57.140 Okay.

01:28:58.460 I was like, this is going to be, I sat down to eat the sweets and a woman in front of

01:29:02.100 me and says, sorry, just to say, my son has a peanut allergy.

01:29:06.600 So if you wouldn't eat any of your sweets, I'd appreciate it.

01:29:14.320 So of course I'm like, oh, of course.

01:29:16.580 Yeah.

01:29:16.900 Not a problem.

01:29:17.920 I don't want someone to die because of me in the theater.

01:29:21.120 But, but I was also thinking like, wow, I can't eat my sweets.

01:29:26.500 Yeah, dude, that's in, who do they think you are?

01:29:30.700 John Wilkes Booth or something?

01:29:33.120 It's not your fucking responsibility to keep this kid alive.

01:29:36.980 It's her responsibility.

01:29:37.920 I'm like, what if I go and sit over there?

01:29:39.760 Nope.

01:29:40.620 No, that's not good enough.

01:29:43.260 Okay.

01:29:44.500 Dude.

01:29:44.920 Yeah.

01:29:45.120 That kind of stuff.

01:29:45.880 You know what I did?

01:29:46.440 And we can cut this bit out.

01:29:47.640 No, we'll keep it in.

01:29:48.760 Well, I went to the, I went to the far away in the theater and then I ate them.

01:29:52.460 I ate them.

01:29:53.000 Yeah.

01:29:53.720 And did part of you eat them out of spite almost in a bit?

01:29:55.860 I ate them.

01:29:56.280 Of course.

01:29:57.020 No, I ate them because I wanted to eat them.

01:29:58.680 Yeah, but some of you with each one, you were like, oh, that little motherfucker couldn't

01:30:02.660 handle these.

01:30:06.060 Yeah, you're just firing them over towards him.

01:30:09.060 Oh, man.

01:30:09.900 Let me think about what else.

01:30:11.280 Oh, do you think, what's on your mind these days, Louis?

01:30:14.180 Like what's, what's something when you think about.

01:30:15.820 I've got a podcast on Spotify.

01:30:18.020 I went the Rogan route.

01:30:19.360 Are you on Spotify?

01:30:20.520 Yes.

01:30:21.220 Are you?

01:30:22.080 But you're only on Spotify.

01:30:23.320 No, I don't.

01:30:23.940 I don't own, I don't have a deal.

01:30:25.540 But they can put you on there.

01:30:26.960 Yeah.

01:30:27.180 And they don't pay you.

01:30:28.520 Nope.

01:30:29.120 Wow.

01:30:29.660 I know you're making it sound like a horrible situation, but we are all, but we just put

01:30:33.760 it on there just to be everywhere.

01:30:35.000 Yeah.

01:30:35.100 You're not a Spotify pod.

01:30:36.700 I'm a Spotify podcast.

01:30:38.260 Oh, nice.

01:30:38.960 The Louis Theroux podcast.

01:30:41.800 So I've been doing that.

01:30:44.340 And then I've got new shows coming up.

01:30:46.820 I've got stuff that's on.

01:30:48.460 Oh, I mean, my big thing is I diversified.

01:30:51.940 So I started making more stuff behind the scenes.

01:30:53.900 So I've got a series.

01:30:55.080 Do you remember the Challenger explosion?

01:30:58.480 Yeah.

01:30:58.660 A lot of people said those people are still alive recently.

01:31:01.500 Where are they?

01:31:02.640 Huh?

01:31:03.060 Where would they be?

01:31:03.980 Bring some of that up.

01:31:04.580 People have been saying that.

01:31:05.460 Can you say Challenger people still alive?

01:31:07.600 We did a whole.

01:31:09.580 Do you have it?

01:31:10.120 Is this what yours is about?

01:31:11.180 Well, it's not about, according to us, they're dead.

01:31:15.300 According to our research.

01:31:17.080 Did I say Challenger?

01:31:18.660 I meant Columbia.

01:31:20.220 Okay.

01:31:20.900 Columbia.

01:31:21.700 Sorry.

01:31:22.360 I fucked up.

01:31:24.240 Columbia is the one that it was in 2001.

01:31:27.000 Oh, yeah.

01:31:27.260 Those people are dead.

01:31:28.460 The Challenger people, I think, are alive, though.

01:31:31.180 Challenger is the one that exploded on takeoff.

01:31:34.080 Columbia exploded on reentry.

01:31:35.980 No.

01:31:36.580 Yeah.

01:31:36.980 And not only that, they had, I wouldn't say they knew, but they had an inkling that something

01:31:42.140 might go wrong.

01:31:43.360 And they decided not to tell the astronauts.

01:31:47.240 No.

01:31:47.660 And so the big, the question at the heart of it is, what could they have done differently?

01:31:54.820 Could they have sent another rocket up and taken, you know, taken the people out in a

01:32:01.600 spacewalk and bring them back home, you know, in the other rocket, like send up a Russian

01:32:06.460 rocket?

01:32:06.980 Right.

01:32:07.480 Could they have fixed it, done a spacewalk and fixed the bit that they thought might be

01:32:12.160 damaged?

01:32:13.920 So there's a lot of questions around how it could have been handled.

01:32:17.660 So that, so I would, I actually, I wasn't an exec on it, but my company made that.

01:32:21.480 We're very proud of that series.

01:32:23.120 Wow.

01:32:24.100 And then we've got one about Lockerbie.

01:32:26.620 And we do a lot of heavy stuff.

01:32:28.020 Do you know what Lockerbie is?

01:32:29.460 Lockerbie.

01:32:29.920 That's not the Loch Ness Monster, is it?

01:32:31.680 No, but it is in Scotland.

01:32:33.100 It was a, it was a village and a plane, it was a Pan Am plane that was flying from London

01:32:37.960 to New York, I believe, and had a lot of American and British people on it, including

01:32:43.420 a whole bunch of students from Syracuse University, I believe.

01:32:47.960 And it was bombed.

01:32:50.160 And there's a lot of conspiracy theories around that or theories as to what happened.

01:32:54.240 So we made a four part documentary.

01:32:56.960 That one's going to be on CNN.

01:32:58.780 So anyway, I've been making a ton of different, and it's a, I do do any behind the scenes stuff.

01:33:03.880 Like, do you, do you have people you're mentoring or do you have like a production?

01:33:07.740 No, right now we've just been doing this sort of thing.

01:33:11.860 Yeah.

01:33:12.140 You know, I would like to, sometimes I think about doing some different, like I've had

01:33:15.380 just some thoughts, you know, about stuff.

01:33:17.220 You know, like sometimes maybe about like Alzheimer's, learning about that, maybe.

01:33:22.240 I made a documentary about that.

01:33:23.980 You did?

01:33:24.120 That's an interesting, yeah.

01:33:24.980 It was called Extreme Love Dementia and about the ways, yeah, it's about how we can best

01:33:32.720 look after people with dementia.

01:33:35.140 Yeah.

01:33:35.320 A lot of them are very happy, like not to sound weird about that.

01:33:38.780 No, I think it's fine if they think they're young or a child or whatever, you know, I

01:33:41.920 don't know, but it's just about making them okay and comfortable, you know?

01:33:45.620 Yeah, you just got to let them be them.

01:33:47.700 I mean, that sounds a bit glib, but you know, if they say, one of them was a, he was a doctor,

01:33:52.560 no, he was a dentist, and he was in this memory support facility in Phoenix, Arizona,

01:33:59.580 surrounded by nurses and other very old people and fairly old people.

01:34:03.360 And he'd been a military dentist, and he was like, I'm on this base, I'm a dentist, I'm

01:34:09.040 doing something dental, I know that.

01:34:11.060 Like, I'm like, really?

01:34:12.360 You don't, because you mustn't contradict them because that creates distress.

01:34:15.820 Oh, confusion.

01:34:16.840 So you're like, okay, and then you change the subject.

01:34:18.860 So he thought he was still working as a dentist, fixing people's teeth, and if he was distressed,

01:34:25.180 you would say to him, hey, Gary, would you mind taking a look at my teeth?

01:34:29.880 And then he'd do like, he'd do a dental inspection, and then he'd forget

01:34:33.300 what was bothering him.

01:34:34.600 So look, in this bit we can see, he's trying to get out, he's like, I want to leave.

01:34:39.420 I want to go through this door, but it says push, and the alarm will sound, and he's getting

01:34:45.180 agitated.

01:34:46.400 And then I'm like, hey, Gary, here we go.

01:34:49.160 I know you're always going to be an Indian.

01:34:50.620 Would you take a quick look at my teeth?

01:34:52.780 Yes, sir, I would.

01:34:54.040 They're not very clean, though.

01:34:55.820 Well, I know.

01:34:56.860 You're a Brit, aren't you?

01:34:58.060 Yeah.

01:34:58.860 Well, you guys don't clean your teeth like we do.

01:35:00.700 I know.

01:35:01.860 Why?

01:35:02.460 Why?

01:35:03.280 Why down, please?

01:35:05.360 You got good occlusion.

01:35:08.100 No, he's fine.

01:35:09.000 You could know you're a crossbite back there.

01:35:10.720 Uh-oh.

01:35:11.060 I wouldn't do anything about it, because it's not going to hurt you now.

01:35:15.420 Oh, he might be, yeah.

01:35:16.700 It sounds like somebody that's checking in on animals, too.

01:35:19.140 Like, he could be breeding dogs or whatever.

01:35:21.280 Some of the commentary he gave there.

01:35:24.060 But the point being, he's happy, and he's living in his own world, and he's in a fictional

01:35:30.440 reality of his own memories.

01:35:32.300 Yeah.

01:35:32.620 And it's kind of amazing.

01:35:34.100 I wanted to do something called, like, Children of the Porn, right?

01:35:37.280 It was, like, children that were conceived on pornography sets during the shootings.

01:35:41.200 Right.

01:35:41.500 I think that's not many, though.

01:35:43.140 Do you think?

01:35:43.920 I think you've got to get at least seven or eight of them.

01:35:46.700 You only need a decent batch, you know?

01:35:48.720 Hard to prove, as well, because there's so...

01:35:51.700 You know, if you're a working porn performer, you're going to be doing at least three or four

01:35:57.340 scenes a week, maybe more.

01:35:59.000 Maybe not during a strike season.

01:36:00.300 Maybe if you went and looked during a strike, possibly.

01:36:02.000 During a scare, when there's, like, someone tests positive and they shut down.

01:36:06.400 So there were only a couple of shoots that year, that month.

01:36:09.740 And if you...

01:36:10.200 I don't know.

01:36:11.000 Just something that I thought about, you know?

01:36:11.700 Have you got an OnlyFans?

01:36:13.640 No, I don't.

01:36:15.580 I don't have it, and I'm glad I don't.

01:36:17.640 What else did I think about?

01:36:18.700 Oh, morning sex.

01:36:20.200 Maybe a documentary about that.

01:36:21.540 How did we get here?

01:36:23.300 You know?

01:36:24.960 Like, sex because you're bereaved and you're in mourning?

01:36:27.860 No, mourning sex.

01:36:29.400 No, you're talking about, like, funeral folk, like, post-funeral sex or whatever?

01:36:33.160 Yeah, like, I can't get out of my grief.

01:36:35.080 Yeah, like, um...

01:36:36.620 But you mean sex in the morning?

01:36:38.480 In the morning, yeah.

01:36:39.340 What's the angle?

01:36:39.840 I just think, I don't care what it is, it's just probably just, uh...

01:36:44.100 I think fucking somebody right after they woke up is pretty sick, I think, you know?

01:36:47.940 Sick as in good?

01:36:49.200 No.

01:36:50.100 Oh, because sick means good now.

01:36:51.980 Oh, yeah.

01:36:52.380 Yeah, well, I think it just, no, it went back.

01:36:54.500 Now it's bad again.

01:36:55.880 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:36:56.880 Anyway, I'm coasting out of that, all of that stuff.

01:37:00.180 Yeah?

01:37:00.860 Yeah, I'm pretty old.

01:37:02.300 Well, I think it just, also you, part of you loses interest in some of that as well.

01:37:06.320 Yeah, I'm on the other side of the hill.

01:37:07.860 Yeah.

01:37:08.360 Well, your penis, you've done all the tricks you can do with it.

01:37:10.420 I'm just trying to stay alive.

01:37:12.020 Yeah.

01:37:12.320 You know what I mean?

01:37:13.340 I'm retreating.

01:37:15.420 You know what I mean?

01:37:16.140 Like, gradually, everything is, it's about, we just need to focus on getting to the next day.

01:37:22.820 Yeah.

01:37:23.600 Do you feel accomplished?

01:37:28.420 Yeah.

01:37:29.500 You're not supposed to say yes, but I do.

01:37:32.840 I do because...

01:37:34.500 It's a really cool thing to say.

01:37:35.740 I think it's important.

01:37:36.920 I don't think I, you know, there's people who've done way more, obviously, stuff than me,

01:37:40.980 but because I've been so lucky with the career that I've had, and I think maybe because of

01:37:48.180 when I came along, it was like, there was various things happening in TV and documentaries,

01:37:55.080 and it was kind of like, it just, there was an opening.

01:37:59.260 Like, there was no one who'd done kind of like, well, there just wasn't that guy.

01:38:04.300 Like, he's kind of a little bit cerebral, but he likes to joke around, and he's curious

01:38:11.000 about this, and he's a good listener, and he makes, and then the BBC gave me, like, they

01:38:15.140 just thought, just keep making those programs, and they didn't really even check up on me.

01:38:18.740 Wow.

01:38:18.980 And suddenly, like, 15 years went by, and I'd made 50 programs, and I basically, I'd covered

01:38:24.500 everything.

01:38:25.380 I mean, there's still stuff out there, but there's so much, you know, like, I've done

01:38:28.960 a prison, I've done jails, I've done a maximum security mental hospital for pedophiles, I've

01:38:35.460 done most of the high crime areas, like, let's say most of, but I've done Philadelphia, Milwaukee,

01:38:41.720 Johannesburg, Lagos.

01:38:44.660 I've covered so much.

01:38:46.560 I feel like I've had this huge privilege, this gift, and it's pretty cool.

01:38:53.880 I don't want that to sound weird.

01:38:55.800 I don't think it does.

01:38:56.400 No, no, no.

01:38:57.140 Well, it's just, a lot of times, especially, I think, in the US, we don't feel, you never

01:39:01.700 hear someone talk about, okay, I feel accomplished.

01:39:05.060 But, you know.

01:39:05.860 It's always just, like, this never-ending thing that is.

01:39:10.520 But I'm trying to make myself okay with slowing down as well.

01:39:15.620 Obviously, by one metric, no, like, I'm not, you know, I grew up in a household where we

01:39:19.820 valued Shakespeare.

01:39:21.700 Me again.

01:39:23.060 Welcome back.

01:39:24.880 And so, for me, I accomplished, my dad's a writer.

01:39:29.580 Yeah.

01:39:30.040 He's a travel writer.

01:39:31.360 He lives in Hawaii and also Cape Cod in the summer.

01:39:34.900 And he's written, like, 60 or 70 novels and travel books.

01:39:38.700 Like, he's off the charts accomplished.

01:39:40.660 So, and, you know, and the people we looked up to when I was growing up, people like, you

01:39:47.620 know, just great literary figures like James Joyce or F. Scott Fitzgerald.

01:39:52.400 John Irving.

01:39:53.400 John Irving.

01:39:54.080 John Irving.

01:39:54.100 John Irving.

01:39:54.140 He wouldn't have been, he would have been too close in age to my dad.

01:39:57.720 So, my dad would have probably, I never read John Irving.

01:40:00.820 But if it was, let's say, Hemingway or Faulkner, right?

01:40:06.660 Thinking, I'm mentioning a Southern writer.

01:40:08.160 Do you know who Charles Portis is?

01:40:10.320 He wrote True Grit.

01:40:11.980 Oh, wow.

01:40:12.680 And he was from, I believe, Little Rock, Arkansas.

01:40:15.200 He's a Southerner and he's dead now.

01:40:17.640 Brilliant writer.

01:40:19.020 Everything he wrote is a kind of classic of a kind.

01:40:23.000 So, he was a, he wasn't, he was just someone who my dad was like, you should read Charles

01:40:28.320 Portis.

01:40:28.780 Like, True Grit's well known, but his other books are equally good, if not better.

01:40:32.440 So, I read three of his books.

01:40:33.720 But my point is just, and I totally recommend them, one is called Norwood, another one is

01:40:40.160 called The Dog of the South.

01:40:42.640 And so, by that metric, no, I'm not accomplished.

01:40:47.140 Because I'm not a gifted writer.

01:40:50.100 I'm just a TV presenter.

01:40:53.420 I'm not even really a documentary maker, really.

01:40:56.120 Like, I'm not a director.

01:40:57.380 I'm the guy who works with a director and we say, hey, I'd love to go to a prison.

01:41:00.780 And then the team says, we'll make that happen for you.

01:41:03.020 And they go and, you know, they figure out how we get in.

01:41:07.500 And then we get amazing access for two, three weeks, right?

01:41:10.160 Or in a cult or in a, or in the world of adult film or, or the far right, some far right

01:41:15.540 group.

01:41:16.320 But you're the right amount of curious, though.

01:41:18.160 But I'm curious.

01:41:18.880 And in a sense, by being a little bit scattershot, a little bit not ready for prime time, a little

01:41:27.340 bit unfocused, maybe a tiny bit, I don't know what, it may be ADHD.

01:41:31.480 I'm not sure what it is.

01:41:32.260 I don't want to medicalize it.

01:41:33.340 But whatever that is, I get, I get impatient, I get twitchy.

01:41:36.680 And then, so the people who are focused and on it can get me in there.

01:41:40.840 And by dint of their work, I've created, I've made, I've been part of making these programs.

01:41:48.660 It's cool.

01:41:49.620 Yeah.

01:41:49.800 I've been trying to, I'm trying to row back from saying I'm accomplished.

01:41:52.240 I've already regret.

01:41:52.920 No, I don't feel, I feel like it's, you very lightly say.

01:41:55.960 I feel very lucky.

01:41:56.700 Yeah.

01:41:57.260 You very lightly say.

01:41:58.520 Well, most people view you as extremely accomplished.

01:42:01.340 So I just think it's interesting to hear your thoughts on that.

01:42:05.020 The pedophilia, man.

01:42:06.480 What'd you learn about it?

01:42:07.460 Because now sometimes people are saying that it's, you know, the next big business or whatever.

01:42:12.500 In what way?

01:42:13.020 Like.

01:42:13.340 It's like the next Apple computer or whatever.

01:42:15.460 You know what I'm saying?

01:42:15.780 Seriously.

01:42:16.440 It's just gross.

01:42:17.020 I mean, I feel like it's like in America, there's like, there's, there's that Nambla group.

01:42:21.360 There's people trying to like legalize it.

01:42:23.100 They're saying that the Romans used to do it.

01:42:25.820 Romans did it.

01:42:26.580 Greeks, I think famously was Greeks, wasn't it?

01:42:29.760 And they said that was normal in those days.

01:42:32.180 And then there was Nambla.

01:42:34.500 I remember seeing a documentary when I was coming up.

01:42:36.920 I used to live in New York and there was a place called Kim's Video talking about blockbuster.

01:42:41.640 Kim's was like the, it was way beyond blockbuster.

01:42:44.920 They had everything and they had every kind of film and they were organized by director.

01:42:49.800 They'd be Kurosawa, Spielberg, Jean Renoir, like, or like some obscure stuff that you wouldn't see anywhere else.

01:42:58.800 You know, go into blockbuster and say, where's your Kurosawa section?

01:43:02.960 They'd be like, you know.

01:43:04.420 Yeah.

01:43:05.000 Oh, sorry.

01:43:06.120 We'll give you some snowcats.

01:43:09.440 But Kim's had everything.

01:43:11.020 And in the 90s, when I was coming up, I was working as a print journalist and you go down to Kim's and it was like an education in film.

01:43:18.580 And they had a documentary section that had incredible, like one film they had that I want to mention, you may even have seen it, it was called Dream Deceivers.

01:43:26.220 Have you heard about it?

01:43:26.960 And it was about two kids who listened to a lot of, is it Black Sabbath?

01:43:32.340 No, Judas Priest.

01:43:33.520 And they had a song called Suicide Solution.

01:43:36.400 And the two kids decide, like, they think the lyrics are saying, suicide solution, just do it.

01:43:42.900 And so they're like, yeah, we need to, we need to commit suicide.

01:43:49.680 I know, it's very heavy.

01:43:51.820 And they...

01:43:52.220 And they kill themselves.

01:43:53.720 No.

01:43:54.400 Yeah.

01:43:54.540 And then one of them doesn't manage to do it.

01:43:56.160 He just shoots off the lower half of his face.

01:43:58.940 So he's interviewed in the documentary.

01:44:01.060 I got to see that.

01:44:01.760 But he can't really speak properly.

01:44:03.320 And then Judas Priest are prosecuted by the kids' parents, I think, saying, like, it's your fault.

01:44:12.240 It's because of the lyrics.

01:44:13.780 And then Rob Halford from Judas Priest is on the witness stand explaining, like, it's not, you know, we just made a song.

01:44:20.940 He's from Birmingham, isn't he?

01:44:22.280 So we just made a song and it wasn't supposed to tell anyone to...

01:44:26.320 I can't.

01:44:26.780 You know what I'm talking about.

01:44:28.980 Yeah, that's very fair.

01:44:29.840 And it's a very...

01:44:30.820 And I remember seeing that and thinking, this is so fucked up.

01:44:34.260 This is exactly the kind of thing I'm really curious about.

01:44:38.140 And it's dark and it's upsetting.

01:44:40.500 And there's the kid.

01:44:42.360 He's died since then.

01:44:44.080 Oh, man.

01:44:45.800 I got to learn about that.

01:44:47.060 We just had a group on called the Suicide Boys.

01:44:49.400 And they had a pact when they were young that if they didn't make it, that they were going to commit suicide.

01:44:55.720 Make it as what?

01:44:57.220 As white rappers.

01:44:58.960 So, I mean, it was a fucking...

01:45:01.400 Let's just say the deck was stacked against them.

01:45:03.880 But there's some pretty good...

01:45:06.400 I feel like down south, there's...

01:45:08.040 Is it Bubba Sparks?

01:45:09.760 Bubba Sparks?

01:45:10.360 He was on one time.

01:45:11.060 Bubba Sparks is a really neat guy.

01:45:12.320 Is he still going?

01:45:13.400 He had some pill addiction.

01:45:14.920 He still does do some work, though.

01:45:16.340 He still does work some.

01:45:17.280 Really?

01:45:17.860 But there's a lot of white rappers out of the UK now.

01:45:22.140 Oh, yeah.

01:45:23.180 I would say white and black.

01:45:25.780 Very talented.

01:45:26.440 In fact, the UK drill scene...

01:45:28.440 Central C?

01:45:29.280 Central C.

01:45:29.940 Did you have him on?

01:45:30.560 Central C, no.

01:45:31.380 I thought about reaching out to him, but...

01:45:32.900 Do it.

01:45:33.480 We had Ed Sheeran and KSI and you.

01:45:37.340 And I felt like it was a good...

01:45:39.300 That's a great mix.

01:45:40.180 I feel very flattered to be in that company.

01:45:42.220 What's the...

01:45:43.220 I mean, I feel very flattered to be in the company, so...

01:45:45.560 But on the Kims, because you were talking about pedophiles being the next big thing in tech,

01:45:50.620 which I didn't fully understand, but you're good.

01:45:52.580 I don't know if I said that exactly.

01:45:53.340 You said it was the next Apple product.

01:45:55.000 Oh, yeah.

01:45:55.260 I was just saying, like, it's like...

01:45:56.920 It's become this hot thing in America that it's like...

01:45:59.840 It just seems like they try to make it seem more norm, like...

01:46:03.420 Well, so the thing was, I was going to say, was there's this documentary that...

01:46:06.160 In Kims, in the documentary section, and it was about Nambler.

01:46:09.340 It's called Chicken Hawk.

01:46:10.740 All I was going to say on that was...

01:46:12.480 So back in the day, Nambler was big.

01:46:14.820 Alan Ginsberg, the poet...

01:46:16.240 I'm not trying to, like, throw shade on him or whatever.

01:46:21.340 Brilliant beat poet, much beloved.

01:46:23.240 But he was a member of Nambler, I believe.

01:46:24.880 You can check that.

01:46:25.920 But...

01:46:26.320 And Howard Stern, in the 90s, always used to have...

01:46:28.460 You know how he would have people on who...

01:46:31.380 He had a Klan guy who would come on, and he'd make fun of him.

01:46:34.880 And he had a Nambler guy he would have on.

01:46:37.300 So my point is just, like, Nambler's been around...

01:46:39.640 For a long time.

01:46:40.120 Chicken Hawk, Men Who Love Boys.

01:46:41.440 It's a very weird documentary where they spend time with...

01:46:44.500 A couple of guys, or one guy from Nambler, and they're...

01:46:47.600 Just talking to him, figuring out what makes him tick, what's going on with him.

01:46:53.400 And did you confirm the Alan Ginsberg?

01:46:56.660 Yeah, let's look back and just bring up Alan Ginsberg.

01:46:58.760 I just want to make sure that we're referencing...

01:47:00.080 Yeah, we don't want to make someone part of Nambler if they're not.

01:47:04.760 Well...

01:47:05.280 He was their celebrity, like, they had one celebrity.

01:47:08.460 You know what I mean?

01:47:09.160 Yeah, yeah.

01:47:10.200 Associated with Nambler.

01:47:11.180 Was a supporter and a member.

01:47:12.800 Good enough.

01:47:13.520 There we go.

01:47:13.860 Nash is a North American man-boy love association.

01:47:17.360 So, was Michael Jackson in Nambler?

01:47:20.080 I mean, I'm sure he definitely performed at some of their events.

01:47:26.820 You would think, yeah.

01:47:28.040 Have you ever said, like, I went on Twitter and said, come on, we all know Michael Jackson was a pedophile.

01:47:38.700 Like, we've seen the program, and even before that, like, there was no shortage of evidence.

01:47:43.860 Like, his music's still great, obviously.

01:47:45.780 Yeah.

01:47:46.240 But let's not be silly.

01:47:48.380 But let's not be in denial about what's happening.

01:47:51.260 And I got...

01:47:52.000 You get so much comeback.

01:47:55.520 Really?

01:47:55.920 On Twitter, like, on X, from that.

01:47:58.740 Does that surprise you?

01:47:59.740 Like...

01:48:00.120 No, I'll say, I'm going to tweet that as soon as we get out of here.

01:48:02.940 Yeah.

01:48:03.400 Just to remind people.

01:48:04.820 Yeah.

01:48:05.120 I was really surprised.

01:48:06.860 There's people who are still like, you know, like, that's so shocking that you would say that about Michael.

01:48:12.460 I'm like, what?

01:48:13.340 Which Michael Jackson are you talking about?

01:48:15.140 Yeah, dude, are you talking about?

01:48:17.940 No, but you're...

01:48:18.420 So I don't think they're trying to normalize, but my perception, my...

01:48:21.620 I saw...

01:48:22.140 When I went to Coalinga, it's a maximum security mental hospital for sexually violent predators is the term.

01:48:29.340 And they go around in beige suits, and it's a hospital, so they can't punish the men there, right?

01:48:36.320 It's a legal requirement.

01:48:37.860 It's a hospital.

01:48:38.540 So they're not incarcerated on the grounds of serving a sentence.

01:48:41.900 They've done at least two significant terms in prison for sexual offenses.

01:48:46.660 And then two psychiatrists have said, yeah, we're not ready for you to come out.

01:48:52.620 And they're like, hang on, I've done my time.

01:48:54.440 What are you talking about?

01:48:55.220 I've done 15 years.

01:48:58.060 And they're like, yeah, but you're mentally ill.

01:49:00.460 And they're like, I'm not mentally ill.

01:49:03.200 They're like, I'm just a pedophile.

01:49:05.660 That's their...

01:49:06.540 Oh, I see.

01:49:07.260 Right?

01:49:08.220 They're like, I don't have delusions.

01:49:09.460 Which is, in a weird way, is a kind of medical, arguably a psychiatric gray area.

01:49:16.360 Right, because they're saying, I know I'm a pedophile.

01:49:18.060 Yeah.

01:49:18.360 It's not like I'm in the, yeah, like, oh, I'm not a pedophile.

01:49:20.940 Yeah.

01:49:21.220 Or some of them are like, and I don't mean to be like, but they're like, I mean, because

01:49:26.720 some of them are rapists, and they're like, but I'm a rapist.

01:49:31.580 Why are you putting me in, like, but I did my time for that.

01:49:35.720 And also, why are you putting me in with these pedophiles, right?

01:49:39.540 And they're saying, I committed a crime, but that doesn't mean I can't.

01:49:44.940 And like, why are you letting out murderers, but you won't let me out?

01:49:48.420 But the argument goes, well, because you're mentally ill, according to our metrics, due

01:49:53.560 to being a pedophile.

01:49:54.940 So anyway, so they're there, and they're like, well, I'm not gonna, they're like, and

01:49:58.680 if you spend long enough here, and do enough treatment, we'll let you out.

01:50:05.500 And they're like, no, you won't.

01:50:07.820 No, you won't.

01:50:08.360 So none of them, very few of them, proportionally, are doing the treatment, but they can't be

01:50:14.500 punished, so they play in jazz combos, they're playing tennis, doing art therapy, they can

01:50:22.200 have porn, they can vote, they're like, I'm gonna vote for Obama, you know what I mean?

01:50:30.000 They're living lives, like, in a, oh, it's too strong to say country club style, but like

01:50:36.660 a relatively pleasant mental facility.

01:50:41.500 And everyone in there is a pedophile?

01:50:44.080 Or a, or a, they've been, or a rapist.

01:50:47.360 They're a predator, sexual predator.

01:50:48.920 Sexually violent predator.

01:50:50.680 The term violent implies like, oh, they beat you up, but some of it's grooming.

01:50:57.260 It's a kind of legal definition of violent.

01:50:59.480 And then they play softball, they play a lot of softball.

01:51:01.340 Oh, wow.

01:51:02.060 Yeah.

01:51:02.480 Now, if they live stream that, people would pay to watch that.

01:51:05.160 And they sell their hair.

01:51:07.160 Do you think so?

01:51:08.360 I don't know.

01:51:09.060 In a heartbeat.

01:51:10.040 Why?

01:51:10.640 Watching pedophiles play softball?

01:51:12.840 It looks a lot like anyone else.

01:51:15.040 Yeah, but still, every now and then, it's gonna get a little weird, and people are like,

01:51:18.320 ah, look at that, you know?

01:51:19.820 People would pay.

01:51:20.560 You'd be surprised, I think, of what people would pay for.

01:51:22.720 I wouldn't pay for it, I don't think.

01:51:24.080 I would look at the highlights or whatever, if it was on sports.

01:51:27.480 It would be like on ESPN5.

01:51:29.780 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:51:30.460 Like one of the real, you know what I mean, and lawnmower races.

01:51:35.640 With the dog shows on there?

01:51:37.020 Dog shows and lawnmower races.

01:51:38.900 I'm saying lawnmower races like it's fringe, but that's probably mainstream.

01:51:43.520 You know what I mean?

01:51:44.260 Like, and yeah, there they are.

01:51:46.280 That's the worst.

01:51:47.020 Do you think this is a born sickness or a learned thing, do you think?

01:51:50.080 Or, I would say, according to what I was told, a bit of both, I think.

01:51:56.900 But I think there's a component where it's what they term a paraphilia.

01:52:02.840 Like, it's just, it's like, you can't actually cure it, you know, the term cure, any more than any other.

01:52:10.260 I was told, like, it's like a sexual orientation, which isn't in any way to attempt to normalize it, because it's just the idea is like, actually, this is just something they are.

01:52:22.840 Not even how, like, something they are.

01:52:25.000 So, and they need, and even like, and what they have to, and what they do is they convince themselves that there's no victims.

01:52:36.700 Like, that the kids are okay with it.

01:52:40.080 A bit like Michael Jackson, right?

01:52:41.820 Yeah.

01:52:41.880 My theory with Michael Jackson is that the whole time he was trying to tell us what he was, like, every interview, he would say, like, I sleep in a bed with kids.

01:52:51.580 It's love.

01:52:52.400 What's wrong with that?

01:52:53.580 You know, like, in other words, like, he was always trying to come out.

01:52:58.120 You know what I mean?

01:52:58.900 Yeah.

01:52:59.100 Oh, he was talking, in his Diane Sawyer interview, or his Michael, with Martin, his Martin Bashir interview, there might have been, was there an Oprah one?

01:53:08.200 He just wouldn't shut up about it.

01:53:11.440 Yeah, I think it had to get, yeah, he had to find some way for it to let people know.

01:53:15.340 He probably was a nice guy who also had this affliction, you know?

01:53:19.500 Well, that's the craziest thing about a lot of things.

01:53:21.260 It seems like that you investigate, a lot of the stuff you investigate are, these people, it's not like they're, some of them could be practicing.

01:53:27.760 I think the kids took, I think it took the kids a while to realize they'd been abused as well.

01:53:33.020 Yeah.

01:53:34.100 They thought they were just having fun with Michael Jackson.

01:53:36.800 I don't mean to sound like.

01:53:37.920 No, well, I think.

01:53:38.860 You know what I mean?

01:53:39.380 Yeah.

01:53:40.340 Well, I think it all just goes to what you believe is okay.

01:53:44.560 You don't, you know what I'm saying?

01:53:46.040 Like, yes, in the bigger scope of things, yes, it seems, it's really messed up.

01:53:51.900 And we were able to see that.

01:53:52.880 But at the time, if you're there and you're in it and nobody's told you that it's bad or you haven't told anybody that it's happened.

01:53:58.580 Can I tell you, I've never said this before, but I heard a theory that, you know, Michael Jackson was on an episode of The Simpsons.

01:54:07.160 I didn't know that.

01:54:08.040 They pulled it.

01:54:08.860 It was an uncredited guest cameo as a mentally ill man who thinks he's Michael Jackson.

01:54:14.160 Does that ring a bell?

01:54:16.520 It's a really great episode.

01:54:17.720 You can't see it now.

01:54:18.480 They pulled it.

01:54:19.500 But the theory I heard was that he agreed to be on The Simpsons on the one condition that he could spend the night with Bart Simpson.

01:54:28.900 So they had to write that into the script.

01:54:31.580 No way.

01:54:32.020 So in the episode, he's, um, he spends the night with Bart and, um, they stay up all night writing a song together called Happy Birthday, called Happy Birthday, Lisa, I think.

01:54:46.800 Oh, this looks like it right here.

01:54:47.980 Yeah.

01:54:48.840 Wow.

01:54:49.180 I don't know.

01:54:49.760 But I, it's, uh, I feel.

01:54:52.840 Oh, he's like, can I spend the night with Bart in the episode?

01:54:54.880 Yeah.

01:54:55.300 Wow.

01:54:55.640 But, because why would he do that, though?

01:55:00.380 Unless he's trying to, in some way, normalize, um, adults and kids spending the night together.

01:55:09.540 Unless he's trying to eat that, eat my shorts, you know, or whatever.

01:55:12.780 God, it's crazy.

01:55:13.860 Yeah, that's what I wonder with, like, a lot of the Epstein stuff and stuff.

01:55:16.640 It's, like, are we, are, is there this overall master arcing thing that's, like, leading us into this, like, depravity world?

01:55:26.860 Or did people always used to behave that way?

01:55:29.040 I don't know.

01:55:30.200 I feel like, uh, it was always, it used to be, like, you know, in this country, in the UK, we used to have page three girls.

01:55:37.980 And you could be 16 and be a page three girl.

01:55:40.780 And, you know, that's, it's arguably porn.

01:55:44.980 Like, they're topless.

01:55:46.300 Uh, they don't do it anymore.

01:55:47.760 But, you know, 16 is very young.

01:55:50.900 And, um, like, to have that in your national newspaper, there's a topless 16-year-old.

01:55:56.380 They changed the law in around 2003.

01:55:58.640 My point is just that I think in a weird way, uh, it was more normal in the past to fail to, to fail to police in appropriate relations.

01:56:09.160 Like, there was more, it's sense of, like, in, you know, when you look at all the Roman Polanski stuff.

01:56:13.660 Yeah.

01:56:14.040 Or stuff that was happening in, um, the 60s and 70s.

01:56:17.240 I think nowadays, I almost feel like, um, the Epstein thing is a distraction.

01:56:22.440 I mean, I might be being naive.

01:56:24.020 I feel like they're trying to make out, obviously, he was a terrible guy, right, who was grooming and molesting teenagers.

01:56:30.360 But, um, I almost feel like they're trying to make it, like, make us all feel like there's this VIP.

01:56:37.820 And maybe there are, but I feel like it's all, most of that stuff's actually happening in plain.

01:56:43.100 Look at the stuff that's going on in the regular porn industry.

01:56:45.960 You know what I mean?

01:56:46.660 They don't really need to hide it.

01:56:49.100 Yeah.

01:56:49.300 Does that make sense?

01:56:50.460 Yeah.

01:56:50.880 Well, it's part of it.

01:56:51.560 It's like, yeah, it's like, well, I think it starts to make people think that, okay, the rich and elite are, like.

01:56:57.620 On the island?

01:56:58.380 I don't really, but I mean, the island, the idea of the island's kind of appealing.

01:57:01.800 Like, wow, what did they, and Stephen.

01:57:03.260 Right.

01:57:03.640 Island always adds mystique.

01:57:04.880 Yeah, it adds a mystique.

01:57:06.040 He had a private island.

01:57:07.640 Like, what are they doing out there?

01:57:08.700 What are they doing there?

01:57:09.040 People would fly out there.

01:57:10.480 I think they were probably out there just eating chicken wings and, you know what I mean?

01:57:14.960 Being rich.

01:57:15.680 Being rich.

01:57:16.620 And it was probably quite boring.

01:57:20.260 Yeah.

01:57:20.760 You know what I mean?

01:57:21.720 Unless there was a group of dudes, because I've been around some real rich people.

01:57:25.280 When you start, you know, a lot of them do, like, they'll go on, like, these kind of sex kind of.

01:57:29.820 Really?

01:57:30.580 Romps and tours.

01:57:31.720 Nothing with.

01:57:32.700 I've heard that.

01:57:33.480 And about some of the tech CEOs that they get together.

01:57:36.840 And they go to Romania or just different places.

01:57:38.740 Right.

01:57:38.980 Do some weird shit.

01:57:39.820 And shoot backpackers, like, in hostel.

01:57:42.960 Oh, yeah.

01:57:43.360 I haven't heard that, but I would.

01:57:44.200 But they hunt humans.

01:57:45.100 Because everything else is too tame for them at that point.

01:57:48.300 Oh, I would believe it, though.

01:57:51.020 I'd believe that that goes on somewhere.

01:57:53.760 Because they don't value.

01:57:54.960 Some people at certain levels, they don't value human life at all, I don't think.

01:57:58.680 The scary part is, like, it's a bit like Squid Game.

01:58:01.740 If you've got, like, a hundred desperate people, like, if they were addicted to carfentanil or something, and you said, like, one of you's going to – you're all going to be hunted.

01:58:13.680 Of the hundred of you, maybe three are going to get shot and killed.

01:58:18.940 But the rest of you will make a great, like, a really big paycheck.

01:58:23.880 You would probably not have any trouble finding guys to agree.

01:58:29.500 Don't you think?

01:58:30.280 A hundred percent.

01:58:30.960 I mean, in a way, it's kind of like what boxing is, in a way.

01:58:35.500 Because they're saying, like, you're going to get brain damage, probably.

01:58:39.200 Or a lot of you are.

01:58:40.760 But you'll get a great payday.

01:58:42.260 Yeah.

01:58:42.900 And you can – until you're about 50, you probably won't notice a lot of the side effects.

01:58:47.140 I'm not trying to be down on boxing.

01:58:48.540 I've got friends who are boxers.

01:58:49.600 But we all know that, you know, there's a brain side effects.

01:58:53.420 Yeah.

01:58:54.920 No, man.

01:58:55.560 Just interesting to think about stuff, you know?

01:58:57.160 It is.

01:58:59.260 Did you ever get to meet Michael Jackson or no?

01:59:01.320 I shook his hand.

01:59:02.500 You did?

01:59:03.060 Yeah.

01:59:03.480 What did his hand feel like?

01:59:05.820 Very soft.

01:59:07.200 Hmm.

01:59:08.400 He – I made a film – it was the only time, I think, maybe –

01:59:12.000 Yeah, you made a documentary about something about –

01:59:13.700 Yeah, it was called Louis and Michael or Louis, Michael, and Martin.

01:59:19.800 It was around the time Martin Bashir was doing his interview,

01:59:22.260 and I was trying to get an interview.

01:59:23.760 It's the only time I've done one where it was in search of.

01:59:27.420 So I didn't get that close, but I did interview Joe.

01:59:33.760 Joe was his dad, the one who he said messed with his head.

01:59:38.520 The one who – because Joe would call him all kinds of names.

01:59:41.700 Yeah.

01:59:42.180 That he – that later on people alleged that was part of why he got his surgery.

01:59:47.060 Because he would call him pepper nose.

01:59:49.400 He said his nose – no, I'm not going to do an impression of Joe.

01:59:52.560 That's a bridge too far.

01:59:53.800 But he was – he just like –

01:59:55.160 He was kind of a bully.

01:59:57.060 Yeah.

01:59:58.160 Then Martin Bashir got fired.

01:59:59.620 He was the guy who did the interview with Lady – Princess Diana.

02:00:03.480 Do you know all of that?

02:00:04.160 And then it turned out he got it on false pretenses by forging a document.

02:00:09.080 And that was why Princess Diana – Princess Diana thought the intelligence services were snooping on her based on that.

02:00:15.980 So she agreed to do an interview with Martin Bashir.

02:00:18.680 There's Majestic Magnificent.

02:00:20.420 So he was Michael's personal magician.

02:00:22.860 Wow.

02:00:24.700 So that right there.

02:00:26.300 So you could say like, what, that's the best you could do is talk to his magician?

02:00:30.640 But you could also say like, well, who has a magician?

02:00:35.220 That's pretty cool to have a personal magician.

02:00:38.660 And –

02:00:39.260 God, he must have been just so brokenhearted or in so much self-pity he also – and brokenhearted.

02:00:44.960 Who, Michael?

02:00:45.880 Yeah, or something just wrong, deranged with him.

02:00:48.580 Yeah, to have a personal magician, you need someone –

02:00:50.800 But Muhammad Ali had a personal magician too.

02:00:52.420 Oh, he did?

02:00:52.720 Same guy, I think.

02:00:54.200 Or maybe – maybe it wasn't his personal – I mean, I – he lived with the Jacksons.

02:01:00.980 It's – I could never quite –

02:01:02.440 Is this guy still alive?

02:01:03.600 He's dead, sadly.

02:01:05.200 He was a good magician.

02:01:06.100 Look at that.

02:01:06.720 Do you see that?

02:01:07.960 Mm-mm.

02:01:11.420 And then Joe – my thing with – I thought – I said to Joe, what's going on with Michael?

02:01:17.960 You know, the angle I went in was like, he looks like he needs help.

02:01:23.020 Like, he seems – he seems – he's a brilliant artist, but he seems troubled.

02:01:27.680 He's taking surgery – the surgery too far, and I don't see a healthy relationship in his life.

02:01:34.680 And in fact, the relationships he did have, you know, with Lisa Marie Presley and – what was the –

02:01:40.960 Oh, uh –

02:01:42.520 Debbie Rowe.

02:01:43.740 Debbie Rowe was the other one.

02:01:45.100 Yeah.

02:01:45.300 Who was – he was – he was – she was like the receptionist for his dermatologist, Arnie Klein.

02:01:51.280 I think that's right.

02:01:52.300 Anyway, I was like, what's going on with – wouldn't you like to see Michael – and this was the slightly troll-like thing I did, although maybe not.

02:01:59.180 I said, you know, don't you want to see Michael happy, like settled in a – you know, in a consenting and happy relationship with a man or woman?

02:02:06.860 And what did he say?

02:02:12.340 I think I said boyfriend, a boyfriend or girlfriend.

02:02:14.480 He said, boyfriend?

02:02:17.080 I was like, yeah, boyfriend or girlfriend?

02:02:19.100 And then he went off.

02:02:22.040 He said, you saying Michael's gay?

02:02:23.620 You saying Michael's gay now?

02:02:25.300 And then they kind of went off and freaked out that I might have suggested –

02:02:31.220 That he's homosexual?

02:02:32.140 That he was a gay man.

02:02:33.360 That he was a homosexual man.

02:02:34.600 He could have been.

02:02:35.420 I think probably, like, if he'd had – if he'd been able to channel his sexual energy into consenting relationships with men –

02:02:43.860 It would have been fine.

02:02:44.740 Then it's all good.

02:02:46.720 I mean, a lot – I think of some paedophiles, when you meet them – like, the guys at Coalinga, they're not the most attractive men, right?

02:02:55.320 What a surprise.

02:02:56.820 And actually, when I've met paedophiles, I've interviewed them also doing prison sentences at San Quentin.

02:03:02.520 And a lot of times you feel like, okay, these are guys who have socially maladapted, who – for them, like, to have sex with –

02:03:11.580 I don't mean to belittle it or, like, in any way trivialize it, but that's just an opportunity for them.

02:03:16.060 Because children are weak and easily influenced.

02:03:20.000 Does that make sense?

02:03:21.040 Yeah, yeah.

02:03:21.460 No, it does.

02:03:22.380 It's – yeah, it's like some people prey on women that are weak and easily influenced.

02:03:26.480 Some people prey on whatever they can that's weak and easily influenced or whatever they're able to assert themselves onto.

02:03:32.440 It's like, you know –

02:03:33.300 It's heartbreaking.

02:03:33.920 Yeah.

02:03:34.940 We had a decent amount of pedophiles in our area.

02:03:37.220 Not enough to make a softball team or anything, but we certainly – they certainly had a group of them around.

02:03:42.740 Was it known – in those days, we called them dirty old men, right?

02:03:47.460 Mm-hmm.

02:03:48.140 And it was called stranger danger, and it was dirty old men who don't talk to strangers, or they were called flashers.

02:03:54.300 Oh, yeah.

02:03:54.940 Do you know what that is?

02:03:56.160 Oh, yeah.

02:03:56.560 I saw a flash once at a wine store when I was a kid.

02:04:00.200 My uncle dropped me off at a wine store, and a woman flashed me.

02:04:02.860 It was a woman.

02:04:03.340 A woman?

02:04:03.920 Yeah.

02:04:05.040 And what did you – how old were you?

02:04:06.760 Probably 12.

02:04:09.340 But I remember – and were you upset by it?

02:04:12.580 I don't know.

02:04:13.560 It was kind of like by some – I mean, I've had an affinity for Cabernet ever since.

02:04:20.640 I know that, you know, for sure, dude.

02:04:23.720 What does that mean?

02:04:25.060 I don't know.

02:04:25.740 It was just I remember being in this wine store, and if somebody brings up a damn Cabernet, I fucking get excited.

02:04:29.560 Right, because you were in a wine store, wasn't it?

02:04:31.580 Yeah, I mean, she just – and I just didn't – and my uncle was driving me after, and I told him, and he went back to the wine store to look for the lady, dude.

02:04:38.860 What a fucking pervert.

02:04:40.120 Because he wanted to see?

02:04:41.620 For sure.

02:04:42.300 He was a pervert, dude.

02:04:43.280 And his wife was on pills, too.

02:04:45.240 What was she wearing?

02:04:46.920 Just a kind of a coat or something and nothing under.

02:04:49.580 Was she a customer in the store or she worked there?

02:04:52.600 I didn't even look and see if she had a receipt or anything on her.

02:04:54.500 I know she was not – I don't think – she did not seem like an employee.

02:04:58.620 So I think she was just somebody traveling around showing her body to children, you know?

02:05:02.220 Did you like it?

02:05:03.820 I was pretty –

02:05:05.220 Or were you confused by it?

02:05:07.160 Were you upset?

02:05:08.640 I don't think I was upset.

02:05:10.940 I think I was like, all right.

02:05:13.700 All right, then.

02:05:14.760 Oh, well.

02:05:16.320 Well.

02:05:17.120 Hello.

02:05:17.980 Yeah.

02:05:18.300 Oh, I didn't know if I – you know what I felt like now that I really – I felt like

02:05:22.600 I didn't know if I was supposed to do something.

02:05:25.040 Like, am I supposed to do something now?

02:05:27.000 And then I felt like I didn't respond quick enough to maybe if I was supposed to do something.

02:05:30.780 And then I felt bad about myself.

02:05:32.660 A cousin of mine was – he was – this is his story to tell, but I'll tell it anyway.

02:05:39.600 He was in Washington, D.C.

02:05:41.860 Not that that matters.

02:05:42.800 Oh, there was a lot of pedophiles over there.

02:05:44.380 And he was – and the guy called him over to his car, him and his friend.

02:05:48.040 I guess they would have been maybe 11 or 12.

02:05:50.760 And the guy was in his car and he was exposing himself, like, here in his lap.

02:05:56.760 But, you know, things happen quick and it was so decontextualized.

02:06:00.480 My cousin thought that he was showing him his gerbil.

02:06:03.180 So, he was like, oh, that's nice.

02:06:07.140 Like, that's cute.

02:06:09.060 And then they went off.

02:06:11.440 And then afterwards they were like, hang on, that wasn't a gerbil.

02:06:15.080 But you just wonder whether that was the reaction the guy was hoping for.

02:06:19.220 You know, oh, that's nice.

02:06:20.120 Or whether he would have preferred they were a little freaked out.

02:06:23.380 Yeah.

02:06:23.720 Like, what the fuck?

02:06:24.460 They got to call my penis a gerbil?

02:06:27.100 Yeah.

02:06:27.580 What an asshole.

02:06:28.180 In a way, like, that was the best reaction because I'm not – you know, I didn't faze him.

02:06:32.640 Yeah.

02:06:32.900 I had a guy come up to me once and he was – this was when I was 12 and I was outside

02:06:38.200 at WH Smith in Putney and he's like – and I used to like smiling at older people.

02:06:44.960 I thought – I just thought it was –

02:06:46.720 Yeah, he's supposed to do it.

02:06:47.620 Yeah.

02:06:48.180 And, like, you know, they're nice and you're nice and sometimes they'll give you a little

02:06:50.700 bit of money.

02:06:51.320 Like, here's 10p for being a good boy.

02:06:53.480 Do you know what I mean?

02:06:54.080 Yeah, for sure.

02:06:54.760 He's a butterscotch or something.

02:06:55.880 Yeah, go get yourself some sweets and then you go, oh, I can't take that.

02:06:59.340 And they're like, yes, you can.

02:07:00.920 Yes, you can, boy.

02:07:02.100 My family's all dead.

02:07:03.460 Yeah, I would – you go and take 10 – here's another 20p and go buy yourself some sweets.

02:07:10.540 But this guy was like – I smiled at him and he said, I bet you've got a big one.

02:07:14.760 Nuh-uh.

02:07:15.120 I said – I still smile because I hadn't taken it in.

02:07:17.400 I said, I bet you've got a big one with lots of hairs on.

02:07:20.360 Oh.

02:07:20.660 And I smiled and then I went off and then I was like, eh.

02:07:24.120 And, yeah, I was quite upset by it.

02:07:26.420 We used to have a dude.

02:07:27.600 He'd give you 10 bucks, right?

02:07:29.520 And he would – he'd be, like, 40 feet away.

02:07:31.920 He would show you his butthole and all you had to do was look at it.

02:07:35.340 Yeah.

02:07:36.460 And you got the $10.

02:07:38.200 Isn't that – that's a lot of money, too.

02:07:40.380 I thought it was a crazy amount of money.

02:07:41.760 We're like, come back tomorrow.

02:07:44.080 How long would he be standing there for?

02:07:48.400 It was just a quick, like, okay.

02:07:50.580 Or how did you know when he'd finished?

02:07:52.860 He wasn't touching himself.

02:07:54.240 He would kind of bend over and pull his buttocks apart.

02:07:57.180 Yeah.

02:07:57.560 And that's how he would see us and make sure that we were looking.

02:07:59.960 Through your legs?

02:08:01.220 Through his legs, yeah.

02:08:02.500 And we would kind of –

02:08:03.940 Through his legs, yeah.

02:08:05.020 He would show us his butthole.

02:08:06.060 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:08:06.380 I got it, yeah.

02:08:07.280 And you'd have to just do that.

02:08:08.560 And then, yeah, you got the $10.

02:08:11.940 So –

02:08:13.420 I had a –

02:08:14.280 We had a lot of gays that were drug-induced homosexuality in our area.

02:08:18.580 And it was – they would happen behind, like, the rest areas along the interstate.

02:08:22.340 And the men back there would get in the river back there and make out and be high on drugs.

02:08:29.220 Were they doing it for the drugs?

02:08:32.960 Or were they already gay?

02:08:34.540 I think it was a mix.

02:08:35.600 It was a big mix.

02:08:36.400 Because it seemed like guys that maybe weren't –

02:08:37.620 A lot of that stuff's fluid.

02:08:39.020 Yes.

02:08:39.080 Like guys in prison, right?

02:08:40.260 And then you're like, well, you know, there's no gay men in prison, really.

02:08:44.960 I mean, they're all gay.

02:08:46.500 You know, there's no straight men.

02:08:47.600 It depends on how you look.

02:08:48.320 Yeah.

02:08:48.700 Right?

02:08:49.640 It's like, yeah, you might be in, you know, Sherwood – you know, or where did Christopher

02:08:54.880 Robin live?

02:08:55.500 What was that place called?

02:08:56.240 Sherwood Forest.

02:08:57.080 Oh, you might –

02:08:57.660 Robin Hood, Robin Hood, yeah.

02:08:58.760 You might be in the Hundred Acre Wood.

02:09:00.260 Oh, Hundred Acre Wood, okay.

02:09:01.560 Yeah.

02:09:02.000 But you might not be a, you know – I don't know.

02:09:04.700 I had a good analogy.

02:09:06.100 I can't figure it out.

02:09:06.900 But the – I went to the doctor once because my bum was itchy and it was – a few weeks

02:09:13.560 went by and then it was still itchy and I was like, this is weird.

02:09:16.960 Like, I don't know.

02:09:18.820 Maybe there's something wrong with it.

02:09:20.120 You know, you Google it and I couldn't find it.

02:09:21.560 So I went to the doctor and I said, oh, God, I've got a very itchy bum.

02:09:25.740 And he's – I think he was French.

02:09:29.940 But he said, I'll take a look at it.

02:09:32.200 And then he looked at it and then – that's already quite embarrassing.

02:09:36.400 Oh, the worst.

02:09:37.220 And then I had the strong impression that he thought there was nothing – he couldn't

02:09:41.300 see anything wrong with it.

02:09:42.240 So I had the strong impression he thought I was just doing it for thrills.

02:09:45.080 Oh.

02:09:45.880 And then what am I supposed to do about – he said, I can't see anything.

02:09:50.760 I said, okay, well, thanks for taking a look.

02:09:54.500 And it was such an unsatisfactory encounter.

02:09:56.680 Oh, of course.

02:09:57.180 And you can't call later and be like, hey, can you let me talk to that guy again?

02:10:01.100 Apologize.

02:10:01.540 Yeah, I just want to say, hey, look, man, there was nothing weird.

02:10:03.460 Because then that's weird.

02:10:04.940 Yeah.

02:10:05.400 It's so hard to follow up.

02:10:06.660 Have you ever had testicle problems where they have to look at your balls and then –

02:10:10.400 No, I had erection problems where they would like shoot this stuff into your wiener to

02:10:14.660 see if it worked good or not.

02:10:17.300 Really?

02:10:17.740 And it works immediately, but it's – but literally the guy's like with a needle just

02:10:22.240 right into your wiener.

02:10:23.940 And it is harrowing, dude.

02:10:25.940 Why did you – do you know why you had that?

02:10:28.340 Just a lot of stage fright, just fright from being a kid, just constant nervousness, you

02:10:32.600 know?

02:10:33.360 And it would just like – yeah, that was harrowing, dude.

02:10:38.680 So they just needed to find out that it worked.

02:10:41.220 They want to know that it like – the inner – the ballast tanks or whatever work, you

02:10:46.220 know?

02:10:46.540 And so they would shoot it up.

02:10:48.600 And you're like, oh, it works, so it's in my head, it's not in my body, you know?

02:10:51.960 And was it okay after that?

02:10:53.860 Yeah, it was hit or miss for a couple years, but it got better.

02:10:56.620 Past few years, it's gotten better.

02:10:58.360 Just you get older, things wear off.

02:10:59.840 Even like you're saying, like your desire – all that confusion, all the fucking – you

02:11:04.260 don't know.

02:11:05.180 The paint comes off the car and you're like, all right.

02:11:07.460 Yeah.

02:11:07.800 We'll just keep driving it.

02:11:08.940 Keep going.

02:11:10.020 Some porn performers use that, you know?

02:11:12.480 Oh, yeah, shooting them up.

02:11:13.660 Yeah, they shoot it up.

02:11:14.720 Like, because that works every time and it's quick.

02:11:16.820 Oh, I wouldn't – I would hate that, though.

02:11:19.560 But they used to.

02:11:20.240 I don't think they do.

02:11:21.160 I think now the porn industry is so – like, it's all OnlyFans and private people.

02:11:27.300 And the big set where there's pressure on and people are standing around.

02:11:32.620 I did a documentary way back, one of the first episodes of my series, Weird Weekends, and

02:11:37.720 we followed a young guy called JJ on his first big shoot.

02:11:42.480 And I'd read a lot about how people get anxiety.

02:11:44.960 And then everyone's standing around thinking, like, we can't shoot anything until you basically –

02:11:51.680 JJ gets ready to rock.

02:11:53.260 You get wood.

02:11:53.700 That's the term.

02:11:54.720 And so – and we were like, we're going to be there filming.

02:11:56.820 Okay, JJ.

02:11:57.360 And I didn't mean really to put a hex on him, but because of the nature of documentary filmmaking,

02:12:03.600 you sort of slightly – I don't know if even hoping is a strong word,

02:12:08.140 but you are aware that you're going to – if you get – you're going to get a better scene if he fails to get wood.

02:12:15.160 And there he was.

02:12:16.000 And he couldn't get wood.

02:12:16.760 Couldn't get it.

02:12:17.520 Yeah.

02:12:18.460 Was he talking to it?

02:12:19.800 That's the worst when you start talking to your own penis.

02:12:21.460 He was kind of – I don't think he was talking to it.

02:12:25.600 But I remember a lot of the people – he was trying to get something going, and it was just not happening.

02:12:31.740 God, I've been there, buddy.

02:12:32.880 What a nightmare.

02:12:34.040 And, you know –

02:12:35.180 But nothing on the line.

02:12:36.140 Like, he had something on the line.

02:12:36.760 That's him more recently.

02:12:38.340 Yeah, he looks great.

02:12:38.740 I saw him again.

02:12:39.540 He lives in – he was living in Ukraine then, I think.

02:12:42.020 Yeah.

02:12:42.240 It was about five years ago, maybe four years.

02:12:45.740 But back then, he was – there he was telling me about his techniques, and he'd done three scenes,

02:12:52.640 and this was his first – he didn't want to mess up on his first big studio shoot.

02:12:57.300 It was his first big one.

02:12:58.680 Yeah.

02:12:59.080 It was a sad situation.

02:13:00.920 That's a tough go.

02:13:03.080 There was one thing I wanted to ask you about before we leave.

02:13:04.800 Oh, they just had a social media – they wanted to put a social media disclaimer.

02:13:08.880 I was looking at this.

02:13:09.640 I want to see what you thought about this, Louis.

02:13:12.020 Can you see that in the news articles?

02:13:13.380 There's a social media – a Surgeon General's warning on social media.

02:13:19.740 Can you open that up?

02:13:20.340 Oh, I heard about this.

02:13:21.360 Yeah.

02:13:21.580 Is that here or in America or both?

02:13:23.620 Not sure.

02:13:24.360 They're basically campaigning to put a surgeon's advisory or a kind of health warning.

02:13:33.160 A Surgeon General demands a warning label on social media apps,

02:13:36.100 and they're trying to make it more sort of childproof so that actually a 13-year-old –

02:13:43.220 because you can get it like – my 8-year-old got on TikTok.

02:13:45.720 When we weren't paying attention, we were on holiday.

02:13:47.600 He started a TikTok account, and then he was going viral.

02:13:51.680 We didn't even know what was going on.

02:13:53.460 Right.

02:13:53.780 Jesus, really?

02:13:54.340 We were just in a restaurant in Greece, you know, talking about this and that.

02:13:58.160 We thought he was just playing on his iPad or something,

02:14:00.920 and then the next morning, like, they came down.

02:14:04.500 They're like, he's gone – my older kids were like, he's gone viral on his TikTok.

02:14:09.580 And there was a picture, and he filmed himself going blah, blah, blah, making a weird –

02:14:15.540 like, he obviously liked seeing himself, so he was opening and closing his mouth,

02:14:18.400 going, all right, and he goes, I like Roblox.

02:14:23.880 He was making a shake with his mouth, and then for some reason, it kind of lit up TikTok.

02:14:29.760 I don't know why.

02:14:30.980 Yeah, it's just –

02:14:31.560 Because I guess you don't see many 8-year-olds on there, right?

02:14:33.600 No, I don't think so, yeah.

02:14:34.860 You're like, who gave him this?

02:14:35.920 How did he do it?

02:14:36.720 And people were giving him bad reviews.

02:14:38.460 Oh, yeah.

02:14:39.300 And I'm like – like, he was – he was getting like tens of thousands,

02:14:45.420 you know, like more than a lot of stuff gets on TV.

02:14:48.000 Yeah.

02:14:48.440 And people would say – and then one guy was like, don't harsh on the guy.

02:14:52.560 He'd just be vibing.

02:14:53.620 Like, kind of defending – defending his integrity and the quality of his content.

02:15:01.260 That's crazy.

02:15:01.940 The kid just started.

02:15:02.840 He just – he was only his like third post.

02:15:06.060 But I'm also thinking – you know, it's like having a portal in your pocket,

02:15:14.060 like, or in your front room.

02:15:15.140 You know, if you've ever – if you have like a million or a couple of million social media followers,

02:15:19.240 and then you have a few drinks, it's kind of – I often think it's a bit like if you had a balcony

02:15:25.300 outside your front room and you could wander out and any time there's two million people standing outside.

02:15:31.100 So you could just – I'm going to go out there and I'm going to show them my wiener.

02:15:35.280 You know, like you could do anything.

02:15:36.660 Yeah, I'm going to show them.

02:15:37.460 I'm going to tell them what's up.

02:15:38.180 I'm going to tell them how I feel right now.

02:15:39.240 Yeah, oh, I got a great joke.

02:15:40.560 This is funny.

02:15:41.480 Like you couldn't – and that's a horrendous – I accidentally – like also there's famous people in your phone

02:15:48.400 and you go like, okay, Siri, or you use the thing and it goes, beep, beep,

02:15:52.720 and like I'm going to send a text to Bill Clinton.

02:15:55.000 You know what I mean?

02:15:55.400 Like I don't have his number, but some famous person, right?

02:15:58.840 And you're one thumb click away from –

02:16:01.860 Sending something crazy.

02:16:02.700 Sending something crazy.

02:16:06.220 And what if it started to do it?

02:16:07.920 What if it started to just be like, you know what?

02:16:09.620 Fuck these people.

02:16:10.840 Yeah.

02:16:11.060 The algorithm, whatever.

02:16:12.800 Yeah.

02:16:12.940 I mean, we're already calling it an algorithm.

02:16:14.800 We're already calling it artificial intelligence.

02:16:16.500 Kids do inappropriate.

02:16:17.080 I'm not going to call it an algorithm, but kids take – they think it's funny to do inappropriate stuff.

02:16:21.960 Yeah.

02:16:22.140 That's part of being a kid.

02:16:23.260 Like they have a bath together and they – maybe they even – if you're not – they have a phone

02:16:27.980 and they think it's – like they take a picture of – maybe one of them takes a picture of his younger brother

02:16:31.840 naked or something.

02:16:32.900 I'm speaking hypothetically.

02:16:34.220 Of course.

02:16:34.500 And maybe they zoom in on his wiener.

02:16:36.120 Wiener.

02:16:36.620 His willy.

02:16:37.300 They think it's funny.

02:16:38.760 Like because they can show it to you or like to their – you know, their brother or something.

02:16:43.580 Look at this wiener.

02:16:44.180 Yeah.

02:16:45.280 But then one – like they have your social media account.

02:16:48.640 They put it –

02:16:49.060 HOTUS.

02:16:49.520 Yeah.

02:16:49.620 Put that on social media.

02:16:50.980 Now, you're a pedophile and you'll go to jail.

02:16:53.280 Not even joking, right?

02:16:55.200 That would be – I'd be put in prison for that.

02:16:57.460 And who – what court is going to believe, oh, yeah.

02:16:59.700 I didn't do that.

02:17:00.300 My son took a picture of his brother's wiener and then he posted it.

02:17:04.740 Exactly.

02:17:05.260 Like your four-year-old son did that.

02:17:07.220 Yeah, exactly.

02:17:08.640 It's just – that's the –

02:17:09.460 That's at the risk.

02:17:10.440 And then one thing like that is career – potentially career ending.

02:17:14.700 And what if the actual owners of these corporate – if they wanted to, they could just post something on your fucking account.

02:17:20.580 They can hack into your – you're clicking all those – what are the terms and conditions?

02:17:26.100 You know, you tick the one – in Samsung, it was like you have the permission to listen to everything I say.

02:17:31.320 Do you remember in the smart TV?

02:17:32.960 And they were stockpiling everything you said.

02:17:36.600 Their only get-out was, oh, we're not listening to it.

02:17:39.540 We'll only listen to it if you get into trouble, like if the president thinks you're a spy, you know, or a terrorist.

02:17:46.340 But other than that, don't worry.

02:17:47.940 We're just collecting it.

02:17:49.160 Yeah.

02:17:49.480 Like, oh, fine then.

02:17:50.680 Yeah.

02:17:52.120 Right?

02:17:52.520 I think that's still going – that isn't even a conspiracy theory, I don't think.

02:17:56.260 Oh, I don't know.

02:17:56.920 Did Samsung – can you bring that up, man?

02:17:58.660 Well, you know, one of my beliefs is that a lot of pornography sites are able to record you while you're watching pornography.

02:18:08.360 Yeah.

02:18:08.500 So that's how a lot of these people get compromised, I think, for all types of things is because they have video of everybody.

02:18:14.880 Your TV's spying on you, but you could stop it.

02:18:18.200 On newer Samsung sets, go to Settings, Support, scroll down to Terms and Policies.

02:18:22.300 Here you can turn off Viewing Information Services, Internet-Based Advertising.

02:18:26.700 You could stop it.

02:18:27.300 Yeah, but tell me how many people are going to click through all the menus to figure out –

02:18:31.360 I just read how to do it, and I'm still not going to do it.

02:18:33.880 Exactly.

02:18:34.760 You don't even read the bit that's like quick start.

02:18:37.260 Here's the thing.

02:18:38.060 You just like put the batteries in, and if you can't figure it out on its own, then you get someone else to figure it out.

02:18:44.940 You seem it doesn't work.

02:18:46.020 Well, even with having a child, people will have a child, not even read anything about them, and just take it home from the fucking hospital.

02:18:51.100 Yeah.

02:18:52.020 Yeah.

02:18:53.200 Big time.

02:18:53.840 There's no manual, but you should do some research.

02:18:57.600 You should do some research.

02:18:59.160 They're not spying on you, though.

02:19:00.620 Well, maybe they are.

02:19:02.220 That's when you know you're fully schizophrenic is when you think your children are.

02:19:07.680 Oh, yeah.

02:19:08.680 There's a – Shane Moss is a great comedian who – he's like a – he'd done a lot of psychedelics, and he wanted to do a documentary while he was on psychedelics.

02:19:17.160 But as he was taking them, he got like further and further down the whole of them, and he started to think that the camera crew that he'd hired was spying and working against him.

02:19:26.620 Yeah.

02:19:26.760 So now he started leaving clues to the camera crew so whoever would be watching this on the other side would be able to come and help him.

02:19:33.500 But to be fair, it would be quite normal.

02:19:35.860 That sounds quite normal to think that – like I don't fully, fully, fully trust any crew, any team I work with.

02:19:44.020 Yeah.

02:19:44.160 You know what I mean?

02:19:44.820 Oh, yeah.

02:19:45.540 Because if you did something like horrific, in a weird way, you would expect them to expose you, right?

02:19:55.760 Right.

02:19:56.220 There's a part of them that would.

02:19:57.560 Yeah.

02:19:57.720 You'd hopefully hope that they wouldn't.

02:19:59.020 If they caught you – they were doing a documentary about you, and you did – they caught you looking at animal porn or something.

02:20:05.300 Yeah.

02:20:06.180 Then maybe that's a better story.

02:20:09.180 And maybe they should be like thinking about we need to do this, like uncover – suddenly their allegiance changes.

02:20:18.440 It's no longer about morning sex, right?

02:20:21.660 The documentary about morning sex, this is morning – they'd go to like 60 Minutes and think we have Theo Vaughn looking at –

02:20:27.200 Animal porn artist.

02:20:27.800 Extreme animal porn.

02:20:29.020 Well, so you can just go to any dog park and watch it for a little bit.

02:20:31.900 For free.

02:20:32.460 It's not the close-ups you want.

02:20:33.940 Or David Attenborough, right?

02:20:35.520 Yeah.

02:20:35.620 That's basically what nature programs are.

02:20:37.480 Oh, the snow finch.

02:20:40.100 Did you meet him?

02:20:41.420 I have met him.

02:20:42.340 I interviewed him, not for TV, but for a magazine, yeah.

02:20:47.120 What a voice of the times, huh?

02:20:48.020 Great voice, yeah.

02:20:49.520 Soon it will die.

02:20:52.360 It will be weeks before it feeds again.

02:20:55.360 I learned a lot from how sparing he is.

02:20:58.740 Like he uses the minimum amount of words in his voiceover.

02:21:05.280 It's winter.

02:21:06.200 The prawns are feeding.

02:21:09.420 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:21:12.380 Soon they will die.

02:21:14.340 You know, like he just doesn't say anything extra.

02:21:18.760 And there'll be some little rye.

02:21:20.380 And then time for a nap.

02:21:24.440 You know, like you just throw in a little, kind of like a little bit of light irony.

02:21:30.300 There he is.

02:21:31.100 Yeah, that was when I still had my beard.

02:21:32.760 Look at that.

02:21:33.180 That was peak me when I had like a beard.

02:21:36.980 I had a little gray.

02:21:38.760 It was, that was probably like the beginning of, like it was two years before the rot set in.

02:21:43.220 And you met Nancy then?

02:21:44.220 I was with Nancy.

02:21:45.660 She got to, at least she got to be with me during the, you know, the golden years.

02:21:51.660 That's what counts, man.

02:21:52.740 Yeah.

02:21:53.620 Well, you have a love in your life.

02:21:55.020 That's nice, man.

02:21:55.680 Oh, yeah, very much so.

02:21:56.680 I feel very lucky.

02:21:57.980 Louie, thank you so much, man.

02:21:59.700 Oh, man, it's a real privilege.

02:22:01.020 I really feel it's a thrill being here for real.

02:22:03.120 Yeah, it's really been nice, man.

02:22:04.440 I just, so many people were fascinated that we were going to be able to have you hang out with us.

02:22:10.200 And so a lot of women too, loads.

02:22:12.340 For real.

02:22:13.180 Wow.

02:22:13.460 Oh, loads of women.

02:22:15.400 Don't tell Nancy.

02:22:16.580 No, that's nice to hear that.

02:22:19.020 It's nice to be, what's the word?

02:22:21.680 Like, obviously I'm not on the menu, but, or I'm on the menu, but I'm not in stock or I don't know what the metaphor is.

02:22:28.880 Yeah, the market price is very high.

02:22:30.280 Well, the chef doesn't make that anymore, unfortunately.

02:22:33.420 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:22:33.940 But maybe for special occasions.

02:22:36.380 Yeah, yeah, there we go.

02:22:37.480 I love your attitude.

02:22:39.720 No, that's a joke.

02:22:40.780 I'm fully.

02:22:41.320 No, that's a joke, Nancy.

02:22:44.040 And you enjoy your crisps, miss.

02:22:46.220 Yes.

02:22:46.540 I'm sure you're a lovely lady and hope we can get to meet you one day.

02:22:50.960 Louis, thank you so much for your time.

02:22:52.380 Thank you, Theo.

02:22:52.700 Your podcast every week is just the Louis Theroux podcast.

02:22:55.420 The Louis Theroux podcast, yeah, on Spotify.

02:22:57.920 And Tell Them You Love Me is on Netflix.

02:23:00.120 Tell Them You Love Me is really, really, it's really, it's crazy.

02:23:04.640 There's a lot of little things I felt during it.

02:23:06.400 I was like, man, do I feel this?

02:23:07.920 What do I know here?

02:23:09.620 It was cool.

02:23:10.640 Thank you.

02:23:11.280 Yeah.

02:23:11.660 Shout out.

02:23:12.400 Nick August Perna.

02:23:13.300 I mentioned him.

02:23:14.920 Enjoy the rest of your stay.

02:23:16.960 Will do, man.

02:23:17.700 Have fun.

02:23:18.040 Yeah.

02:23:18.340 I'm going to do my best and I'll let you know next time I come in town, man.

02:23:20.520 Please.

02:23:20.980 Catch up on your pod next time.

02:23:22.140 That would be nice.

02:23:22.840 Yeah, it would be a reciprocal deal.

02:23:25.680 I'd love to have you on.

02:23:26.740 That's very fair, man.

02:23:27.860 Thank you for your time, brother.

02:23:31.180 Thank you for yours.

02:23:32.140 Now I'm just floating on the breeze and I feel I'm falling like these leaves.

02:23:38.140 I must be cornerstone.

02:23:43.240 Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind I found.

02:23:48.860 I can feel it in my bones, but it's going to tell you.

02:23:57.860 Thank you.

This Past Weekend with Theo Von - June 27, 2024

E513 Louis Theroux

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