This Past Weekend with Theo Von - Sex at Dawn Author Chris Ryan

00:00:00.280 This episode is brought to you by Gray Block Pizza, Gray Block at 1811 Pico Boulevard in Los Angeles.

00:00:06.980 I want to thank everybody today. This is our 100th episode.

00:00:11.020 And so I'm going to get into it more on the Monday episode, but thank you so much.

00:00:16.220 This is absolutely crazy. I don't really know anything that's 100.

00:00:20.420 You know, I think my grandparents, the oldest one of my grandparents was, I think, 90.

00:00:25.120 And I think I petted a turtle once actually recently in Maui.

00:00:31.660 And it was, somebody said it might have been 100 or something.

00:00:35.480 But you weren't supposed to pet it also because they said it's $5,000 if they see you touching it.

00:00:40.860 So it's pretty much only the rich people, I guess, really get to pet it because the government charges you that.

00:00:47.860 And anyhow, happy 100th episode. Thank you guys so much for being a supporter for this long.

00:00:53.180 Also, I want to let you know that I once stood shirtless with Dan the Man Cummins overlooking the African Serengeti.

00:01:02.420 And I asked him a question about something or other and we talked for about an hour.

00:01:06.420 You know, he talked about something because that man can really just ramble.

00:01:10.480 I mean, he's like just going down a beautiful just wormhole into whateverness and that's who Dan is.

00:01:15.780 And after the conversation, I was fulfilled to the max by whatever Dan said to me because he knows a lot about things you really probably don't even know if you want to know about or not.

00:01:26.560 And he has a podcast. It's called Time Suck.

00:01:29.360 And it takes you on a weekly delve through thoroughly exploring and explaining a single listener suggested topic.

00:01:37.460 And if you don't want to go down a wormhole yourself, let somebody else do it.

00:01:42.780 Find a topic you like. Each Monday, he has new episodes.

00:01:46.340 It's irreverent and it's entertaining. And that's Dan Cummins.

00:01:50.360 The man finds layers. Everything from menthol, cigarettes, bees with autism, historical events, Loch Ness mice, mimes.

00:01:59.640 Where are they now? Paranormal encounters and conspiracy theories.

00:02:03.460 Time Suck. Every Monday, the link will be below.

00:02:08.320 This is episode 100 and we're happy to have a man who, you know, who wrote a book recently called Sex at Dawn that I listened to slash read with my ears.

00:02:17.980 He has a new podcast as well called Tangentially Speaking.

00:02:22.080 He is a psychologist. He's a an author as well.

00:02:27.120 Chris Ryan.

00:02:37.460 Yeah, just don't.

00:02:39.500 Are you going to attack me at some point?

00:02:42.760 Is this when things don't go well?

00:02:44.880 I mean, I just...

00:02:46.260 This is a beautiful blade.

00:02:47.560 I mean, if it doesn't go well, maybe. Yeah. Someone mailed that in, actually.

00:02:52.820 I wonder if it's the same guy who sent me one.

00:02:55.000 Reeves Blades.

00:02:56.900 Is he in Texas?

00:02:57.640 I feel like everybody who makes a knife is in Texas.

00:03:01.380 Yeah.

00:03:01.680 Yeah. A guy sent me a handmade blade. The blade itself was made from the leaves of a suspension on a car.

00:03:09.760 Oh, different guy. Our guy said it was from the bones of his grandparents.

00:03:13.580 That's the handle.

00:03:14.360 I think, yeah. So, different guy. But yeah, actually, the blade could be.

00:03:19.460 We're here with Chris Ryan. How are you today?

00:03:21.380 I'm good. I'm good. I'm shocked, though. I didn't know I was coming to a studio and this whole professional scene.

00:03:27.640 Oh, right on.

00:03:28.260 Yeah.

00:03:28.460 I thought I was going to go sit in your dirty kitchen and you'd have Mike set up on a table next to last night's dinner.

00:03:34.880 Oh, man.

00:03:35.820 That's how podcasts normally are done.

00:03:37.540 Yeah, that's true. I guess... Yeah, and we're still, I think, like that in our hearts. I think we just tried to, you know, show up a little bit.

00:03:44.360 A little bit more in the atmosphere.

00:03:46.240 Yeah.

00:03:46.900 You know?

00:03:48.340 I'm a little stunned by the lights and all.

00:03:51.060 I ended up... I actually... I've read Sex at Dawn. I masturbated. Not to the book.

00:03:58.480 It's been a big day for you.

00:04:01.420 But last night, right? Here was something that happened to me last night and this is something that happens to me a lot.

00:04:05.960 It's good. I was hoping we'd talk about masturbation.

00:04:07.960 Did you really?

00:04:08.500 Yeah. I always talk about it.

00:04:10.480 Okay.

00:04:10.920 And I saw you and Rogan with your hat conversation.

00:04:13.960 Yes.

00:04:14.560 And I was like, oh, good. There's a guy I can talk about jerking off with.

00:04:17.520 Yeah.

00:04:17.820 So, good. Let's get right into it.

00:04:19.920 And so, here's what happens for me sometimes if I'm jerking off, right? Because I know you're a psychologist.

00:04:25.400 And a jerk-off.

00:04:26.360 And a...

00:04:27.360 Yeah.

00:04:31.240 So this is...

00:04:31.740 Call me doctor.

00:04:33.680 Perfect.

00:04:34.080 So, what happened to me was like, I try...

00:04:37.980 For me, I try not to masturbate right now because I feel like, for me, I've become addicted to pornography and using masturbation as an escape.

00:04:47.800 From what?

00:04:48.480 Um, I don't know.

00:04:50.580 Probably from having, like, some real feelings about things or, like, if I start to feel something, sometimes I'll just go to masturbation, you know, or I'll go to watching pornography to kind of check out from whatever maybe might be possibly making me have some other feelings that I don't want to experience.

00:05:07.220 So, I was done working in my kitchen and everything.

00:05:11.780 I was like, I'm not going to masturbate, thank God.

00:05:14.160 Made it through the day without masturbating or without watching pornography.

00:05:17.760 So, I shut down my computer, walked to the bathroom, and then I was urinating, and then I had some thought about...

00:05:26.760 Ah, what was it?

00:05:28.060 What a great dick I have in my hand right now.

00:05:30.820 Yeah.

00:05:31.560 Got this great dick in my hand.

00:05:33.820 Yeah.

00:05:34.360 No, it could have been that.

00:05:35.540 I got this decent dick.

00:05:37.060 You know?

00:05:37.760 I have a short neck.

00:05:38.900 My whole, you know, I come from a long line of short neck people.

00:05:41.180 Oh, do you?

00:05:41.840 So, my dick is that sort of, you know, it's squat.

00:05:44.640 It doesn't have the longest neck, but it shows up, you know?

00:05:47.740 You know, girth is more important than length.

00:05:50.000 Is it really?

00:05:50.400 Yeah.

00:05:50.980 Well, thank you for...

00:05:51.840 Because my dick can hear that.

00:05:53.060 Yeah.

00:05:54.360 But then, so next thing you know, I masturbated, and I was done.

00:05:58.740 And then it was like...

00:05:59.780 And then I felt bad.

00:06:00.860 You masturbated into the toilet?

00:06:02.200 No.

00:06:02.740 That would be...

00:06:03.400 What's that called?

00:06:03.940 When you go from urination directly into masturbation without leaving the toilet.

00:06:07.140 Being in a hurry.

00:06:08.100 Yeah.

00:06:09.780 Yeah.

00:06:10.200 Late for work.

00:06:11.260 Late for work.

00:06:13.720 So, next thing you know, next thing you know, I had literally masturbated, and then I felt

00:06:18.580 bad.

00:06:19.220 Oh.

00:06:19.480 And that's kind of where I was.

00:06:21.820 And so, I just thought, man, I just feel bad about...

00:06:25.700 I felt like some sense of a negative feeling.

00:06:29.180 And then I was like, well, maybe I'll just...

00:06:31.300 I'll talk to Chris about this tomorrow.

00:06:32.820 Just ask him about it.

00:06:33.880 Ah, okay.

00:06:35.420 All right.

00:06:35.840 So, we're doing therapy?

00:06:36.820 No, you don't have to have any thoughts.

00:06:38.680 I just...

00:06:38.980 Oh, I have lots of thoughts.

00:06:40.220 But I want to know, like, I guess...

00:06:42.220 I don't like the fact that I feel bad about it, I guess.

00:06:45.060 Yeah.

00:06:45.960 Yeah.

00:06:46.280 Well, you know, the first thing I would...

00:06:50.360 I don't know how deeply you want to get into this, but were you raised in a religious

00:06:53.320 tradition?

00:06:54.120 Mm-mm.

00:06:54.880 So, do you have...

00:06:56.280 Do you feel any sort of negative thoughts when you have sex with a woman?

00:07:00.340 Or I don't know if you're straight.

00:07:01.680 I assume you're straight.

00:07:02.280 Yeah, I'm straight.

00:07:02.980 Yeah.

00:07:03.940 I mean, unless something happens later in life, you know?

00:07:06.520 I could have late-onset homosexuality.

00:07:08.280 Could happen.

00:07:09.360 Could happen, yeah.

00:07:10.460 But yeah, I'm straight.

00:07:11.640 You keep hanging out with muscular guys like Joe.

00:07:13.520 Yeah, I know.

00:07:17.280 Rogan's strong, huh?

00:07:18.460 He's strong.

00:07:19.340 How strong is he going to get?

00:07:20.920 He can't get stronger.

00:07:22.160 He'll break his own skeleton.

00:07:25.120 He can't...

00:07:25.920 I mean, come on.

00:07:27.720 You gotta...

00:07:28.360 It's true.

00:07:29.080 Yeah.

00:07:29.480 Have you seen photos of him when he was a young guy?

00:07:32.340 Yeah.

00:07:32.780 He's a good-looking dude.

00:07:33.800 Very handsome.

00:07:34.380 He looked more...

00:07:35.720 Yeah, he looks very Italian.

00:07:37.320 Yeah, exactly.

00:07:38.160 With the hair.

00:07:38.780 Yeah.

00:07:39.280 I saw a young clip that he posted recently of him doing stand-up, and it was like,

00:07:42.860 wow, that's him.

00:07:44.040 Yeah, and he wasn't as beefy by far.

00:07:47.740 I mean, he was like a more sort of normal body.

00:07:51.180 Yeah, he could have been almost...

00:07:52.400 He could have been like a Russian dancer or something, but one that, you know, kind of

00:07:56.140 a lower key when that's him?

00:07:58.860 Yeah.

00:07:59.040 Yeah, that's him.

00:08:00.280 Wow.

00:08:00.740 Yeah, he's already into the muscle phase there.

00:08:03.560 Yeah.

00:08:04.100 Yeah, but he was more of a lean guy whenever he was first doing comedy.

00:08:07.900 Yeah.

00:08:08.060 But yeah, so then I just felt bad, man.

00:08:09.540 I didn't grow up with a strong religious thing.

00:08:11.640 I think for me, it's just I try...

00:08:14.020 You know, the pornography has just gotten so strong that it's hard to fend it off sometimes.

00:08:19.800 Yeah.

00:08:20.140 And I'll go immediately from my imagination where it almost evolves into a scene I could

00:08:24.300 see from porn.

00:08:25.260 Yeah.

00:08:25.500 And the next thing you know, I'm watching porn, if that makes any sense.

00:08:27.900 So do you watch porn for a long time, or are you just going for five minutes and do your

00:08:33.440 business?

00:08:33.800 I'm in and out.

00:08:34.560 Yeah.

00:08:34.860 I'm effective with the porn.

00:08:35.840 So what's the negative...

00:08:37.680 What's the source of the negativity?

00:08:39.520 I don't know.

00:08:39.940 If it's not religious, is there something inherently ugly about coming, or are you watching porn that

00:08:49.840 you're ashamed of?

00:08:50.760 There's like, it's really nasty, and is there something in the porn that you're not into?

00:08:55.900 What if there's no porn involved?

00:08:57.260 What if you just jerked off?

00:08:58.360 Would you still feel bad?

00:09:01.860 I think if I did it excessively, I would still feel bad.

00:09:05.280 What's excessively?

00:09:06.660 Like, a couple times a week, I think.

00:09:09.920 Why?

00:09:10.500 Where do you come up with that number?

00:09:12.200 I don't know.

00:09:13.040 I think for some reason, I feel like it weakens me somehow.

00:09:18.600 You feel that physically, or on an emotional, psychological level?

00:09:22.880 I guess I feel it a little bit physically, but then it really gets deep.

00:09:27.260 Deeper into like an emotional, psychological level.

00:09:30.100 Yeah, that I just feel like it makes me less of a man or something sometimes.

00:09:34.280 That's interesting.

00:09:36.400 Yeah, I don't have any of those associations with it.

00:09:40.660 In fact, I'm very sort of wary of anything that makes me question messages that I get from my body.

00:09:51.760 So, for example, I don't like alarm clocks.

00:09:54.180 I like to wake up when I wake up.

00:09:56.780 I don't like, you know, when I started reading all this shit about how you have to drink eight glasses of water a day,

00:10:03.900 I was immediately like, where's that coming from?

00:10:06.560 That's bullshit.

00:10:07.280 Who says that?

00:10:08.020 Yeah, a camel.

00:10:09.040 You drink when you're thirsty.

00:10:10.620 That's why you have the sense of thirst, right?

00:10:13.800 Eat when you're hungry.

00:10:15.060 Like, every instruction that I get from society telling me to not trust the messages I'm getting from my body, I'm immediately.

00:10:24.700 Now, I know some, in some cases, they're probably right.

00:10:27.280 But 90% of the times, you know, that I've lived long enough now to see that information be discredited again and again and again.

00:10:38.260 Like, that water thing.

00:10:39.620 Yeah.

00:10:39.800 That comes from a study that was first put out years ago by Gatorade.

00:10:46.700 Right.

00:10:47.040 And it wasn't about drinking water.

00:10:48.300 It was about drinking fucking Gatorade.

00:10:50.020 So, it's bullshit.

00:10:51.480 There's no scientific basis whatsoever for saying you have to drink a certain number of glasses of water per day.

00:10:57.820 How much water is in the food you're eating?

00:10:59.840 How dry is the atmosphere you're in?

00:11:01.880 Right.

00:11:02.040 How much are you sweating?

00:11:03.160 Yeah, if you're in Arizona or Maine, it's totally different.

00:11:05.380 Exactly.

00:11:05.700 And your physiology, right?

00:11:07.660 Like, some people don't sweat.

00:11:08.920 Some people sweat a lot.

00:11:10.520 It's total bullshit.

00:11:12.140 Yeah.

00:11:12.380 So, my feeling about masturbation is like, unless there's some, you know, you were alluding to earlier, like, maybe there's something that's making you feel anxious.

00:11:21.920 And so, you jerk off as a way to distract yourself from solving a problem or dealing with something in your life that's making you unhappy.

00:11:30.680 I'd say that could be an issue.

00:11:32.620 But to me, there's, it could be alcohol.

00:11:35.720 It could be collecting baseball cards.

00:11:38.580 It could be, you know, online shopping.

00:11:40.780 It could be chasing pussy.

00:11:42.860 It could be lots of different ways to distract yourself.

00:11:46.640 And masturbation actually is probably one of the least destructive of all of them.

00:11:53.100 You know, you're not pulling anyone else into your trip.

00:11:56.540 It's pretty quick and you can get back to your life.

00:11:59.340 It feels good.

00:12:00.360 But I've never felt guilty about jerking off.

00:12:04.040 Wow.

00:12:04.840 And a few times a week, shit, dude, at your age.

00:12:07.760 Yeah.

00:12:08.160 A few times a day.

00:12:09.220 I was jerking off like morning, night, and lunch break if I could get it.

00:12:13.580 Oh, wow.

00:12:14.060 Hell yeah.

00:12:14.460 How old are you, 30 something?

00:12:15.280 I'm 38.

00:12:17.040 Dude, come on.

00:12:19.140 Yeah.

00:12:19.360 That shit's got to go somewhere.

00:12:21.500 Yeah, I guess.

00:12:22.300 I don't know.

00:12:22.840 No, this is, this is like, yeah, I don't know why somewhere I guess I developed some negative.

00:12:27.880 You know what?

00:12:28.320 You know what?

00:12:28.680 Sometimes I think it is.

00:12:30.280 And, and I'm sorry.

00:12:32.260 I'm not trying to push on you.

00:12:33.440 I know you do give therapy to people.

00:12:35.180 And I wasn't like.

00:12:35.880 No, I don't care.

00:12:36.700 Okay, cool.

00:12:37.340 Talk about whatever.

00:12:37.880 Yeah, I asked Joe Rogan about you the other day and he said, man, that guy's just one

00:12:41.500 of the best guys to talk to.

00:12:43.500 And I thought that that was, it made me feel a little bit more at ease just because I didn't

00:12:49.240 want to seem, I don't know how I wanted to seem, but anyway, it made me feel very at

00:12:52.900 ease.

00:12:53.840 I picked it up.

00:12:54.740 Like I said, I watched your thing and there was a moment, I didn't watch the whole thing.

00:12:58.980 I think I watched, I don't know, half of it or something.

00:13:00.940 Who has time to watch podcasts?

00:13:03.180 I don't know.

00:13:04.120 Hey out there.

00:13:05.520 You do.

00:13:06.240 And we're glad.

00:13:07.880 But I was watching your thing and there was a moment where there's something about sex

00:13:12.480 came up and I could see on your face that you were like, there's something that was bothering

00:13:16.960 you.

00:13:17.320 You said like, yeah, sex, I don't know.

00:13:19.100 Like people bump against each other till they come and like, I don't know.

00:13:24.160 Yeah.

00:13:24.680 Yeah.

00:13:25.000 People.

00:13:25.340 Yeah.

00:13:25.520 It doesn't, something about it I think doesn't, it seems primitive to me in a way where it doesn't

00:13:31.760 seem novel, like new or novel or exciting enough.

00:13:35.120 Uh, to keep doing it so much.

00:13:38.120 Yeah.

00:13:38.960 And then sometimes I think you're making me think about this a second ago.

00:13:42.280 Like, I feel like maybe I am afraid if I have sex, you know, with somebody that I care

00:13:51.560 about that I'm gonna like really care about them, you know?

00:13:55.080 Like maybe there's something inside of me that there's like a fear that, you know, cause

00:13:59.980 I have, I have an easier time having sex with someone that I don't care about than someone

00:14:04.500 that I do.

00:14:05.060 And there's a huge disparity there for me.

00:14:07.860 And I feel like, you know, I don't know, maybe that's something that if I like, there's

00:14:15.600 a part of me, there's like a fear inside of me that I can't even access sometimes where

00:14:18.740 if I have sex with somebody that I can't really love, you know, or something that I'm gonna,

00:14:23.940 I don't know, that it's gonna backfire somehow.

00:14:27.540 I don't know.

00:14:28.220 But anyway, I'm not trying to be a fricking weirdo.

00:14:30.920 I just.

00:14:31.520 No, man, we're all dealing with that stuff.

00:14:33.460 There's nothing weird about it.

00:14:35.100 I relate to that.

00:14:36.800 I mean, I don't know.

00:14:39.320 I don't know if you, if this is stuff you want to get into, but if you lost someone that

00:14:47.260 you really were close to when you were young, that could easily create a fear.

00:14:53.720 You know, in my case, I moved a lot when I was a kid.

00:14:55.820 And so I lost friends for a couple of years and it was hard for me to really care about

00:15:06.280 people later in life because like, I sort of had this built in expectation that I was

00:15:14.240 going to lose them.

00:15:15.300 And so the more I cared about them, the more it was going to hurt.

00:15:18.600 And so I, for a long time, and you could argue still in a way, sort of skimmed the cross

00:15:25.800 the surface.

00:15:26.420 Like, I don't have kids.

00:15:29.760 And I moved a lot physically in my adult life.

00:15:33.460 You know, I kept rolling.

00:15:34.440 And it was easier for me in a way because I didn't have those deep roots.

00:15:39.780 You know, people would be like, don't you miss home?

00:15:41.440 I'm like, home?

00:15:42.520 I don't have home.

00:15:43.540 You know, my friends are spread out all over the world.

00:15:45.920 Yeah.

00:15:46.120 There's no place I could point to and say, that's home.

00:15:48.940 I couldn't even tell you I grew up there.

00:15:50.800 Oh.

00:15:51.040 I was there.

00:15:51.940 I went to three different high schools.

00:15:53.620 Oh, man.

00:15:54.660 Yeah.

00:15:55.940 So, you know, maybe that's happening with you.

00:15:58.460 Maybe there's part of you that's like, you know, you cared about someone and lost them.

00:16:03.700 And now it's scary to care about somebody else.

00:16:08.320 But that's good because what it means is that you're still connecting your sexuality with

00:16:16.720 intimacy.

00:16:17.720 And I think a lot of people, especially a lot of men, partly because of porn and what's

00:16:23.840 going on in that world, I think they've lost that connection.

00:16:29.200 And once you lose it, it's really hard to get it back.

00:16:32.380 I mean, you still have it and it's still really present for you.

00:16:35.840 So, that's beautiful.

00:16:36.540 So, once you meet the person or people or you, you know, develop in a way where you're

00:16:44.020 comfortable being vulnerable that way, that road's still open for you.

00:16:49.300 And that's going to be beautiful for you.

00:16:51.240 So, yeah, man, it's, yeah, I appreciate, you know, thinking about some of these things.

00:16:56.200 Yeah, it's hard for me, man.

00:16:57.380 That shit is just so hard for me.

00:16:59.020 And it's almost like at a thing, it's like a thing I can't access, you know?

00:17:02.360 Like when you say like the, you know, the, I'm sure like moving around from place to

00:17:06.320 place and then, you know, yeah, like who knows what persona you probably had to create

00:17:12.740 to juggle being accepted immediately when you got into a place and like, you know, you

00:17:19.280 probably had to become a good listener, you know?

00:17:21.420 Well, I didn't.

00:17:22.440 I mean, that happened much later.

00:17:23.640 The persona I developed when I was a kid was the fucking pedantic, I don't need, I don't

00:17:31.720 need anybody.

00:17:32.800 I'm smarter than everybody.

00:17:34.340 Fuck you guys.

00:17:35.680 Right?

00:17:36.020 Like, you know, yeah, I'm sitting at lunch alone.

00:17:39.280 I'm reading this book and, you know, I'm in my world.

00:17:42.360 I don't care.

00:17:43.060 I don't have friends.

00:17:43.840 I don't need friends.

00:17:44.540 I was that guy.

00:17:46.520 And then it wasn't really till I followed that persona right through college and then

00:17:54.300 I hitchhiked to Alaska from New York.

00:17:58.660 I skipped a year of college and I decided to go to Alaska.

00:18:02.120 So I hitched from New York to Alaska and back.

00:18:05.920 Wow.

00:18:06.400 And I was in Alaska for two months or something in the summer.

00:18:09.880 And on that journey, my whole life changed.

00:18:15.200 Like I, it was actually this Memorial Day, it was 35 years ago that I got to Fairbanks

00:18:20.960 and I ate a Snickers bar in a grocery store without paying for it.

00:18:24.880 And I got busted and spent four days in prison.

00:18:27.900 Prison, not jail.

00:18:29.080 Right.

00:18:29.280 Because they didn't have jail.

00:18:30.500 So they put me in this prison waiting for over Memorial Day weekend.

00:18:35.040 But I met all these people who were fucking great, really cool people.

00:18:40.220 And like they built their own houses and they were really kind to me, took me home and fed

00:18:45.320 me.

00:18:45.900 I bet that kindness probably really felt that, did that help kind of give you a perspective

00:18:50.100 switch?

00:18:50.760 Yeah.

00:18:51.420 Their kindness, their acceptance, their generosity to me.

00:18:56.320 And I, you know, and these are people, no, I, I was this pedantic, you know, I was going

00:19:01.360 to go to Oxford and get a PhD and, you know, I was Mr.

00:19:04.340 Save the world.

00:19:05.300 Yeah.

00:19:05.800 Well, not really save the world.

00:19:07.120 Or rule the world.

00:19:07.960 Or just be, be recognized as being really smart and teaching literature.

00:19:12.700 And I love the literature of adventure, like Melville and Joseph Conrad, all these guys

00:19:18.360 are on whaling boats and going around the world.

00:19:20.840 That was the shit I loved.

00:19:22.380 And so that's why I wanted to do this adventure of my own.

00:19:25.100 Right.

00:19:25.360 And, but I met all these people who were so kind to me and, and I sort of said, okay,

00:19:32.100 now I have stumbled into their world and they've accepted me and helped me.

00:19:37.580 And, you know, just incredible kindness.

00:19:40.720 If one of these people had stumbled into my world, they would have been laughed at and

00:19:46.620 rejected and nobody would have helped them.

00:19:48.740 Yeah.

00:19:49.000 Because my genius friends were miserable ass, well, not assholes.

00:19:53.180 They were friends, but they were miserable.

00:19:54.740 And their relationships were fucked up and they didn't know how to do anything practical.

00:20:00.000 And I looked at these guys and it's like, okay, they don't like study these books and whatever, but their lives are great.

00:20:06.880 And they have good relationships and their kids love them.

00:20:09.420 And this guy's like living with this really sexy woman and she's really into him.

00:20:13.580 And he fixes his car and he made this house.

00:20:16.020 And I want to be like that guy.

00:20:17.740 Like I admire that guy.

00:20:20.360 And so it was a real sort of turning point in my life, you know, where I was like, oh, I don't want to be a college professor.

00:20:28.560 Know it all.

00:20:29.380 Smug know it all.

00:20:30.240 Yeah.

00:20:30.480 And I'm not accusing you of that.

00:20:31.580 I can, I can totally associate with that.

00:20:33.820 But that's the road I was going down.

00:20:35.740 Right.

00:20:36.000 And as you say, it was a defense mechanism.

00:20:38.080 It was because I felt afraid and alone.

00:20:40.660 And so I had built up this armor, you know, this pedantic, I'm smarter than everybody armor.

00:20:47.340 Yeah, Matt, dude, I can so relate to that.

00:20:49.160 I mean, I think, and I want, I definitely want to ask you some questions about the hitchhiking, but I can relate.

00:20:53.520 Like when I got into like, you know, I'm about almost two years sober when I got an AA, that was, I think in a way, some of my hitchhiking moment where like, it was the first time, like I felt like people accepted me.

00:21:08.920 Um, in a way where I wouldn't have done the same for them.

00:21:14.320 You know, it was people that, you know, you know, I'd always really had nothing growing up, but then here was people that had even less and they weren't, you know, there wasn't judgment.

00:21:21.820 And it just like, uh, yeah, man, it just kind of, it's almost like if you took a tree and shook it, it like, and the tree had never felt that before.

00:21:30.620 And suddenly like the, the, the, the roots in the soil, like just vibrated a little and we're like, oh, things feel a little different now.

00:21:39.080 Yeah.

00:21:39.420 And that's suddenly how, like, it was just a perspective switch a little bit.

00:21:42.820 Oh, wow.

00:21:43.200 Like the thing I've always wanted was to feel some sort of acceptance and to feel, you know, just cared about.

00:21:51.400 Um, and then that's when it started to adjust.

00:21:54.900 Oh, well, this is how, if somebody can care about me this way, I can do this for others.

00:21:59.160 And then I feel even better than when I care about somebody.

00:22:03.940 Right.

00:22:04.260 And it blew my fucking mind out of the water and my heart.

00:22:08.020 Cause I'd never, I just hadn't put it together like that.

00:22:11.960 Yeah.

00:22:12.460 So, I mean, if that's just two years ago, you're, you're still opening up.

00:22:17.560 You're still getting used to this.

00:22:18.840 Yeah.

00:22:19.300 Yeah.

00:22:19.640 Yeah.

00:22:19.840 I think I am in a lot of ways, man.

00:22:21.580 Um, that's what, yeah.

00:22:22.980 I mean, I think I am in a lot of ways and that's why, you know, I know you're friends with Simon Rex and I love being around guys like that.

00:22:28.580 Like he's such a, uh, like he's been so good to me as a friend, you know, like it's almost, I mean, it really makes me, he doesn't even realize, I don't think how like special of a person he is, you know, like he's just constantly like loving, you know, he is, he's, he's so, I mean, I, I know you're, you're in this world of people who are famous and they've been in movies and they did this and they did that.

00:22:52.620 But Simon is one of these guys who is so fucking down to earth and kind and just like a, he's just such a decent person and all the movies and the, you know, the stars and the hot women he's been with and all that.

00:23:08.560 It's like somehow it hasn't destroyed him.

00:23:12.040 Yeah.

00:23:12.380 That's a hell of an accomplishment.

00:23:14.000 Yeah.

00:23:14.140 Cause it's all the hot women too.

00:23:15.740 I mean, literally if you're hanging out with him, you end up becoming almost like a concierge for pussy.

00:23:21.500 Like you're basically just no matter where you are, it's like, it's, it's baffling, man.

00:23:28.000 I went to a 4th of July party with him at a Soho house in Malibu.

00:23:33.180 Oh, that's fun.

00:23:33.880 It was like, and it's so high school.

00:23:37.820 It's so much like high school.

00:23:39.540 There's the clicks and there's a popular and there's, you know, different.

00:23:43.060 And, uh, for people who don't know, Soho house is like this sort of private club.

00:23:48.660 You have to be a member and it's right on the beach.

00:23:51.780 It's in Malibu.

00:23:52.860 So I go and it was like hanging out with the captain of the football team in high school.

00:23:58.900 It was like, wow, this is what it's like to be with the cool kids.

00:24:02.840 And I ended up with the supermodel that he was seeing at the time, like sitting on my lap the whole night.

00:24:08.500 And everyone's like, why is she sitting on that old dude's lap?

00:24:11.900 Like he must be rich.

00:24:12.300 Yeah, is that Philip Seymour Hoffman?

00:24:13.660 That's right.

00:24:14.380 What's going on here?

00:24:16.720 And then, and then she walked me.

00:24:18.520 I was like, yeah, like after a while I was just like, this isn't my world, you know?

00:24:23.160 Like I'm not, I'm not even, yeah, I'm not competing here.

00:24:28.700 I'm like, I'm not going to get laid.

00:24:30.380 I'm not, I don't even want to like, I don't even want to like,

00:24:32.840 this just isn't my world.

00:24:34.500 You'd have to pretend so far outside of yourself to really be comfortable in there.

00:24:38.060 And you're kind of glad you probably aren't.

00:24:39.520 Well, I'm too old to pretend, you know, I, that's, you're not, I am.

00:24:44.940 I mean, I don't know where, it doesn't matter where I don't pretend.

00:24:47.780 I don't pretend about anything.

00:24:48.920 I'm so bad.

00:24:49.700 Like I don't even, sometimes I don't even pretend I'm not farting.

00:24:53.400 I'd just be like, you know, like, oh geez, I forgot there are people here.

00:24:57.260 I mean, I'm sort of feral, you know?

00:24:59.480 So, but Simon didn't ever, look, if Simon takes you to that kind of thing, he never

00:25:05.940 makes you feel, you're never not still the same.

00:25:09.040 Like you're never not just still his buddy.

00:25:10.820 Oh no.

00:25:11.160 And it feels like you two could just be wherever.

00:25:13.200 He never goes so high up to the scene that it's, that he's disconnected from the reality

00:25:18.400 of like his buddy he brought to a bar.

00:25:20.180 Exactly.

00:25:20.340 Yeah.

00:25:20.920 Yeah.

00:25:21.160 And that's something that I find is just remarkable, remarkable about him.

00:25:24.380 Yeah.

00:25:24.600 He has such a big heart.

00:25:25.720 Sometimes I don't know if he even realizes it, you know?

00:25:28.380 Well, isn't that part of the package?

00:25:31.400 Oh yeah.

00:25:32.080 You know what I mean?

00:25:32.780 Like if he did realize it.

00:25:34.480 Then he wouldn't be so cool.

00:25:35.700 Yeah.

00:25:36.160 Like a woman who knows how gorgeous she is.

00:25:38.420 She's not so gorgeous anymore.

00:25:40.200 She's kind of annoying.

00:25:42.280 Yeah.

00:25:42.700 Yeah.

00:25:42.880 You know, there's, I mean, it's, yeah.

00:25:46.020 Or someone who's, you know, a wise, like, like I have this friend who's in his mid eighties

00:25:52.260 and he's sort of like my mentor, I guess, or, you know, whatever.

00:25:55.580 But like, if you, if you went to him and said, Stanley, you're so wise, he would just

00:26:00.300 laugh at you.

00:26:01.080 He'd be like, ah, I'm just old, you know?

00:26:03.860 Simon's met him.

00:26:04.680 And that's another thing about Simon.

00:26:05.980 Like Simon's gone out of his way.

00:26:07.840 We drove to San Diego together so he could meet this dude.

00:26:11.280 Oh, right on.

00:26:11.780 Yeah.

00:26:11.900 I heard about that.

00:26:12.420 Did you, you drove, uh, when it, but you guys went away at Winnebago?

00:26:16.400 Uh, I have a camper van, a sprinter.

00:26:19.400 Oh, that's what it was.

00:26:20.200 That's awesome.

00:26:20.840 Now Simon just bought a camper.

00:26:21.900 I saw some videos.

00:26:22.900 Yeah.

00:26:23.220 Yeah.

00:26:23.400 Yeah.

00:26:23.520 He just got one.

00:26:24.220 I just went in there the other day and checked it out.

00:26:26.340 Yeah.

00:26:26.700 Sweet.

00:26:27.320 Yeah.

00:26:27.520 He's a special guy though, man.

00:26:28.720 He's cool.

00:26:29.280 And he's somebody, I think one of the first people in Hollywood that like, um, it's, it's

00:26:34.240 crazy.

00:26:34.560 I've had a ton of other friends, but it's like Simon's a pretty popular guy and I have more time.

00:26:40.140 Um, he makes more time to spend with me than, you know, anybody.

00:26:44.900 Yeah.

00:26:45.080 He comes and we go hiking up in Topanga all the time.

00:26:47.540 He'll buzz over and do, uh, and do yoga.

00:26:50.580 Like in my, you know, it's always, yeah, it's just, yeah.

00:26:53.680 Anyway, yeah.

00:26:54.620 He's a special guy, man.

00:26:55.800 Simon's starting a podcast soon.

00:26:57.260 He's going to steal all our audience.

00:26:58.720 I know.

00:26:59.600 It is.

00:27:01.040 Hopefully it's just audio tracks of all the, uh, relationships he's been in, bro.

00:27:05.380 Man.

00:27:05.740 Did you see he got this whole Meghan Markle thing?

00:27:08.480 I know.

00:27:09.260 He played it so well though.

00:27:10.840 He did.

00:27:11.360 It was so well.

00:27:11.760 He's like, even the garlic breath for people don't know, like apparently he went on a date

00:27:18.600 with Meghan Markle 15 years ago or something.

00:27:21.440 She's the new Prince of White, Prince, Queen of Scotland or something, right?

00:27:24.480 Yeah.

00:27:24.520 I don't know.

00:27:25.040 Something.

00:27:25.520 She just married Prince Harry.

00:27:27.660 Yeah.

00:27:28.000 I guess.

00:27:28.500 Yeah.

00:27:28.580 It's like Monopoly over there still.

00:27:31.840 She's the banker.

00:27:33.360 Anyway, she's dating the banker.

00:27:34.860 Yeah.

00:27:35.740 Yeah.

00:27:36.100 Uh, but yeah, but Simon used to, Simon dated her at some point.

00:27:39.640 Well, like once they went out and, and so the, this newspaper like tracked him down and

00:27:45.320 got an interview and he, he was just like, yeah, you know, she, she wasn't into me.

00:27:50.640 Yeah.

00:27:50.940 I was into her.

00:27:51.600 She wasn't into me.

00:27:52.800 And so he played it beautiful.

00:27:54.460 Yeah.

00:27:54.660 Here he is.

00:27:55.560 Actor reveals how he blew chances because of garlic breath, but then dated Paris Hilton.

00:28:03.460 Paris Hilton likes her garlic breath, man.

00:28:05.420 And he, the funny thing is though about Simon is, uh, I don't know if we'll, if we'll ever

00:28:10.040 know, cause yeah, he kind of took an L on that.

00:28:12.340 He could have, you know, who knows what happened with him and her, I think, but, but he kind

00:28:16.660 of played the gentleman role there.

00:28:18.420 Yeah.

00:28:19.600 Perfectly.

00:28:20.060 Yeah.

00:28:20.540 Uh, right up to the point of saying he thought Harry seemed like a cool guy.

00:28:25.060 Yeah.

00:28:25.780 Yeah.

00:28:26.660 Which is, I mean, that is, that is the classy move.

00:28:29.980 It's definitely the classy move.

00:28:31.300 I'm wondering how many dudes would have been like, yeah, you know, uh, you know, we fucking,

00:28:36.380 you know, we got nasty in a Chevelle or something, you know, I know you like, uh, a nice car.

00:28:44.500 Chevelle.

00:28:45.360 Yeah.

00:28:46.340 A Cutlass Supreme.

00:28:47.880 Oh, definitely.

00:28:49.560 Yeah.

00:28:50.040 Uh, but yeah, he played it, he played it nice.

00:28:52.600 I mean, but that's, this is a perfect example.

00:28:54.880 That's, I mean, that dude is dated basically now the prince of whatever she is, you know,

00:28:59.700 Rhode Island or whatever.

00:29:00.820 It's the original Rhode Island, Britain.

00:29:02.400 Yeah.

00:29:02.900 Yeah.

00:29:03.540 Um, speaking of ladies, I'm looking through, uh, you know, I was looking through some of

00:29:07.620 your Instagram and I saw you, uh, won an AVN award.

00:29:12.120 Yeah.

00:29:12.580 I'm very proud of that.

00:29:13.520 My mom had it on her mantelpiece for a while.

00:29:16.020 Yeah.

00:29:17.220 Yeah.

00:29:17.720 I, uh, a buddy of mine.

00:29:19.400 And that's a porn award.

00:29:20.260 Sorry for our listeners who don't know.

00:29:21.540 The adult video and I don't know, Nate nation network, something beginning with that.

00:29:26.700 You don't even get to the end.

00:29:27.520 You've already busted a nut.

00:29:30.160 Yeah.

00:29:31.440 It's the Oscar of porn.

00:29:33.100 And you know, there are all these categories like, you know, best three way best, like,

00:29:38.380 you know, anal best, you know, jizz on face.

00:29:42.880 I don't know.

00:29:43.280 There are all sorts of weird categories.

00:29:45.000 Yeah.

00:29:45.280 Face painting.

00:29:46.040 They call it a thing.

00:29:46.700 Oh, is that what it is?

00:29:47.300 Yeah, I think so.

00:29:48.240 Yeah.

00:29:49.860 But it's only one color.

00:29:51.320 That's the thing.

00:29:52.560 The second people can start dying their semen via pills intravenously, bro, or something.

00:29:56.600 Oh boy.

00:29:57.380 Oh boy.

00:29:58.420 Yeah.

00:29:58.740 So this buddy of mine was making a movie, like a high end movie that he wanted to be

00:30:06.280 sort of a crossover, like a porn, but with character development and really well shot

00:30:11.540 and an interesting plot and all that.

00:30:13.540 And he was kind of hoping I think would, would go a little bit mainstream.

00:30:17.280 And, and, uh, so he asked, uh, so the, the idea was that it's this couple, it's called

00:30:25.660 marriage 2.0.

00:30:26.900 And, um, uh, the, the story is there's a young couple who are opening up their relationship

00:30:35.700 because they've been together while they're starting to get bored.

00:30:38.460 They're attracted to other people, but they really love each other.

00:30:40.780 So it's a common conundrum.

00:30:43.540 And so they decide, okay, let's fuck other people, but, you know, talk to each other about

00:30:48.240 it and try to do this consciously.

00:30:50.700 And so, uh, the woman in this couple is a documentary filmmaker.

00:30:55.580 And so she's having some issues and feeling insecure and jealous and whatever.

00:31:00.120 So she decides to make a movie within the movie where she interviews people who are sort

00:31:06.180 of thinkers and writers about relationships and sexuality.

00:31:09.580 So my Casilda and I play ourselves, the authors of sex at dawn.

00:31:15.380 So there's like a stage set up, I mean, a studio thing and she's interviewing us about

00:31:21.200 the book and then she starts to cry and runs off.

00:31:25.120 And then the next scene I'm in the kitchen with her and we're having this heart to heart

00:31:29.000 about open relationships and yadda, yadda, yadda, and, um, and it was, it was actually,

00:31:35.260 I really enjoyed it.

00:31:36.300 But it was, uh, interesting because I've done so many interviews, you know, sex at dawn

00:31:42.980 came out in 2010 and I did a lot of press and Ted talks and CNN and everywhere.

00:31:48.700 And I bet even more on the horizon.

00:31:50.500 I mean, it's still seen, I mean, it fit right into my present moment.

00:31:54.180 Yeah.

00:31:54.480 I'm still, I mean, if I wanted to, I'd be doing three or four interviews a week about

00:31:58.620 it.

00:31:58.780 Sure.

00:31:59.180 And then I have a new book coming out, uh, later this year, early next year.

00:32:02.820 So then hopefully that'll, but anyway, the, the point of that is like, I've become accustomed

00:32:07.820 to ignoring cameras, which I think is a big part of acting.

00:32:11.880 Ah, I see.

00:32:12.920 And so when we were doing that scene in the kitchen, it was very easy for me to just focus

00:32:18.400 in on her and ignore the guys with the cameras and the lights and, you know, all that.

00:32:23.240 And it felt really good.

00:32:24.820 And after the director was like, dude, you're really good at this.

00:32:28.220 You should like think about acting.

00:32:29.820 And I was like, yeah, as long as I can play myself, you know, I'm like Jack Nicholson,

00:32:34.680 like I'm going to be a Jack, you know?

00:32:38.120 Yeah.

00:32:38.480 The second you have to play a mother of three in Albuquerque, you're done.

00:32:42.520 Yeah, exactly.

00:32:43.040 Like a gay dancer from the 1800s.

00:32:45.340 Like, yeah, I don't think so.

00:32:46.740 And that, yeah.

00:32:47.560 So, so, so that was you guys' scene and then that film won an award?

00:32:51.840 So, so the film, I think the film won some other awards, but I was nominated for an award

00:32:57.600 award in a very special category, best non-sex performance.

00:33:04.520 So that's the story of my life right there.

00:33:06.660 It's like, you kind of win, you kind of lose, you know?

00:33:11.300 It's like-

00:33:11.960 You kind of want to show it to your buddies, you kind of don't.

00:33:14.540 It's like, you know, fastest slow guy in the race.

00:33:18.420 That's me.

00:33:19.620 I'm always at the, you know, the top of the bottom category.

00:33:23.360 Yeah.

00:33:23.480 Was there a moment when your friend who was putting the film together, when he reached

00:33:28.500 out, when you were thinking, wow, I'm going to get to fuck in one of these things?

00:33:32.940 I didn't want to fuck in one of these things.

00:33:34.900 Right.

00:33:35.460 So maybe, and you didn't want to.

00:33:37.080 I get that.

00:33:38.040 I couldn't do it.

00:33:39.080 But was there a moment at the beginning when he was first started talking, when you were

00:33:42.540 like, man, at least hope he asked me to fuck in this thing?

00:33:44.940 Well, see, I had worked in porn before, so this wasn't a new thing for me.

00:33:49.440 I had a job years ago when the internet was first sort of starting in the mid-90s, and

00:33:56.420 I had like logged on.

00:33:58.220 I finally figured out how to log on.

00:33:59.940 And of course, the first thing was like, where's the porn, right?

00:34:02.960 Oh, yeah.

00:34:03.760 All of it was just porn.

00:34:05.220 Yeah.

00:34:06.000 And it was like, this was back in the days where you'd get to a site and you'd watch

00:34:10.920 the lines go across and like, oh, there's a nipple coming up here.

00:34:15.220 Oh, there's the top of her nipple.

00:34:16.920 Oh, my God.

00:34:17.360 And then it's just a hat, but you've already come.

00:34:19.820 Exactly.

00:34:20.100 It's just like a Yiddish hat.

00:34:21.140 It's like, oh, no, I got to start over again.

00:34:23.500 It was a yarmulke.

00:34:25.000 But yeah.

00:34:25.960 So anyway, so I found this site and they had beautiful models and great photography and

00:34:33.780 the sets were really nice and all this.

00:34:35.860 And then the text was in English and it was like ridiculous English.

00:34:40.720 It was so bad.

00:34:41.960 And so I copied it and at the bottom was like a webmaster link or something.

00:34:46.840 And I pasted it into an email and I underlined all the mistakes.

00:34:50.700 And I wrote this email saying like, you guys obviously spend a lot of money on this website.

00:34:55.680 It's really well shot and blah, blah, blah.

00:34:57.480 But your English is really distracting.

00:35:01.060 You need an online editor.

00:35:02.660 I happen to be an online editor.

00:35:04.160 I'd never heard of online editor.

00:35:05.920 And I sent it off thinking like nothing's going to happen, but it took me five minutes.

00:35:09.920 Right.

00:35:10.500 I get a phone call a couple of days later.

00:35:12.160 Like, can you come in for an interview?

00:35:13.580 This was in bar.

00:35:14.120 I was living in Barcelona.

00:35:15.120 It turns out this giant Swedish porn company had just relocated to Barcelona called Private.

00:35:23.160 And they hired me to be their online, their in-house editor and translator.

00:35:29.220 So I'd been around porn sets a fair bit.

00:35:33.240 Now, being around porn sets, because as just a regular guy, right?

00:35:35.880 I imagine I'm up at a porn set, dude.

00:35:38.520 If I'm watching, you know, or is a bunch of people just standing there to see a wreck the whole time?

00:35:42.880 Like, what is that like?

00:35:43.900 Does it feel more like an art?

00:35:45.260 I've never been to one.

00:35:46.080 I've always wanted to go, but I also like-

00:35:49.000 I can hook you up.

00:35:50.040 Yeah?

00:35:50.500 Sure.

00:35:52.500 It's the thing is, it's not erotic.

00:35:55.000 Right.

00:35:55.480 It's not erotic at all.

00:35:56.640 And that's the thing.

00:35:59.360 That's interesting.

00:36:00.660 On a porn set, I mean, orgies, yeah, sex clubs.

00:36:08.200 Like, I've been to dungeons.

00:36:10.080 I've been in a lot of these places.

00:36:11.940 Damn.

00:36:12.320 You look like a damn Voldemort, bro.

00:36:15.680 Yeah.

00:36:16.240 Well, I mean, after Sex of Dawn came out, like, anyone with sort of an alternative approach to sexuality-

00:36:23.980 Came to you.

00:36:24.640 Well, they're very, we're welcome, you know?

00:36:26.640 Like, they know our book, and they know that we're accepting of all these different things, and we're not going to judge anyone.

00:36:32.700 So we sort of have entree into all those worlds.

00:36:38.180 And yeah, I mean, I've always been really interested in sexuality anyway, so I've had, I've been in a lot of weird kind of, what most normal people would consider weird situations.

00:36:48.580 Yeah.

00:36:48.840 Long before Sex of Dawn came, I mean, I've had probably, this is going to sound weird, but I guess I've spoken about this publicly before, but I probably had, at this point, I don't know, half a dozen or more men say, dude, if you want to have sex with my wife, that's totally cool.

00:37:09.000 Yeah.

00:37:09.780 You know, I think, like, I'm just not threatening.

00:37:12.360 They know I'm not going to, I'm honest about it.

00:37:15.220 Yeah.

00:37:15.480 It's all on the surface.

00:37:16.720 Yeah, you're not going to be slam dunking.

00:37:17.980 You might be shooting some three-pointers out, you know?

00:37:20.140 From outside.

00:37:20.840 Yeah.

00:37:21.180 Yeah.

00:37:21.360 Yeah, but they don't, you know what I'm saying?

00:37:22.600 But they might be like, yeah, non-threatening.

00:37:24.480 Yeah, and I'm not going to talk shit.

00:37:26.640 Right.

00:37:27.600 You know, I remember this, there was a woman, I was friends with a man, and the situation came up, and she and I used to get together, and, you know, we'd have sex, and then we'd, like, lie there in bed and talk about what a girl is.

00:37:39.180 A great guy or husband was.

00:37:40.620 Yeah.

00:37:40.740 And literally, that was what happened, you know?

00:37:44.100 So, I don't know why I'm talking about that.

00:37:46.200 No, this is interesting, and I think a lot of our listeners, and I mean, even, you know, I think there's definitely a thing these days where, you know, people want to venture outside.

00:38:00.040 They do have so many other sexual desires that they don't express, and a lot of times it's because of a marriage or because of, you know, it might be a religious institution that, you know,

00:38:09.000 that they, a template that they base their marriage on, which I think is understandable, you know?

00:38:13.660 It's such a, that's such a narrative in our world, and it's such a life for people, you know,

00:38:21.820 that I think a lot of guys are probably afraid to even broach the subject or bring it up, or there's probably both spouses in a lot of marriages and relationships just laying there thinking some of the same things.

00:38:33.640 Yeah, and that's one of the best things that's happened as a result of Sex at Dawn, that I get emails from people saying the book enabled them to get into a conversation, and then once they got into it, as you said, they found they were thinking the same thing,

00:38:50.640 and it actually enabled them to be so much closer together, you know, whether they do anything different or not, just the fact that now we're talking about it, and we're being honest about it, that can take so much pressure off, you know?

00:39:06.040 So much.

00:39:06.780 I mean, I can experience, I've experienced this recently with a girl that I've been dating, and like, and yeah, just to be able to communicate.

00:39:13.640 It's almost amazing that you can't communicate sometimes, even though you're in an environment where you're supposed to be able to communicate.

00:39:21.680 Well, yeah, you're in a relationship supposedly with the person you feel closest to in the world, and yet, right from the beginning, there are these areas where you're lying to each other.

00:39:32.780 Yeah.

00:39:33.300 About something really important, right?

00:39:35.280 Really intimate.

00:39:36.460 Yeah.

00:39:36.660 Like, oh, no, baby, I'm not interested.

00:39:38.440 I'm not attracted to other women.

00:39:39.820 Yeah, I'm not.

00:39:40.140 That's bullshit.

00:39:41.620 That's bullshit.

00:39:42.300 And it's bullshit when she says the same thing to you.

00:39:45.000 So here you are lying to each other, right?

00:39:47.760 About something that, of course, you're attracted to other people.

00:39:50.740 Yeah.

00:39:51.060 Come on.

00:39:51.600 Yeah, it's like if a hot chick walks by, you always have to pretend like you just watched a really slow bird fly by far away.

00:39:57.780 And you always get busted.

00:39:59.120 There's something on my shoulder.

00:40:01.120 It's bullshit.

00:40:02.380 I remember I was sitting in this hotel lobby in Sydney.

00:40:05.920 I was down in Australia at this great conference called the Festival of Dangerous Ideas.

00:40:11.960 Wow.

00:40:12.560 It's great.

00:40:13.080 Yeah.

00:40:13.260 And the Sydney Opera House.

00:40:15.240 Fantastic.

00:40:16.400 Anyway, and I was sitting in this lobby and this smoking hot woman walks by.

00:40:22.860 No bra, tits bouncing.

00:40:25.580 Tits out?

00:40:26.460 No.

00:40:27.140 Oh, in a shirt or anything?

00:40:27.940 She was dressed, but they were.

00:40:29.780 In some sort of holster.

00:40:31.400 I think they were just swaying.

00:40:33.120 Man.

00:40:33.520 Like God intended, you know?

00:40:35.040 God.

00:40:35.840 Dude, if a huge tit fucking hit me one time and knocked me and I died, I'd be cool with that.

00:40:40.280 You're like, damn, a tit killed that dude.

00:40:42.640 But how dope is that?

00:40:44.920 Yeah.

00:40:45.100 Okay, so the woman's walking across the lobby.

00:40:46.300 So anyway, she's walking across the lobby.

00:40:48.280 Everybody's looking, which is what she wants.

00:40:50.820 You know, like, come on.

00:40:52.080 And I sort of see across the lobby, there's this couple.

00:40:55.540 And the dude is like pretending he's not looking, but he is.

00:41:00.340 And the woman, the wife, is pretending that she doesn't notice that the dude's pretending not to notice.

00:41:07.920 And it's just like this shitstorm of fucking bullshit, you know?

00:41:13.140 Yeah.

00:41:13.460 And it's like, what is the problem?

00:41:16.280 If your husband's alive, of course he's noticing this woman, right?

00:41:19.900 You're noticing this woman.

00:41:21.760 We're all noticing her.

00:41:23.080 Yeah.

00:41:23.160 Like, are you supposed to, like, not look at sunsets either?

00:41:26.600 Because, you know, no, you're the only beautiful thing in the world, honey.

00:41:29.720 Yeah.

00:41:29.960 Like, come on, people.

00:41:31.160 Like, even the clock in the lobby stopped ticking for a second.

00:41:34.080 Exactly.

00:41:34.600 Like, everything is just held up.

00:41:36.160 The reception guy's like, can you just wait a minute?

00:41:38.120 Yeah, I'll get to you in a minute, sir.

00:41:40.840 The fruit stopped ripening in the dishes.

00:41:43.180 The elevator's like, errrt.

00:41:45.040 Oh, I've been in those environments when, like, the hottest woman in the world walks through the room, and you're just like, my God.

00:41:50.940 Yeah.

00:41:51.440 And your tongue falls out of your mouth, and then a tongue falls out of your dick, and you're like, wow, my dick.

00:41:55.480 A tongue falls out of your tongue?

00:41:56.760 Yeah.

00:41:57.480 And it just keeps going.

00:41:59.480 All the way right up to her heels.

00:42:01.120 It's like Monty Python now.

00:42:02.140 Yeah.

00:42:02.380 That's right.

00:42:02.820 It's like a red carpet.

00:42:05.120 It really is.

00:42:05.980 I wonder if your tongue falls out almost as, like, this proverbial red carpet of your soul, and you hope that this woman will walk right up into your mouth.

00:42:13.560 Yeah, you know, with the heels.

00:42:16.280 Oh, I'd let her.

00:42:17.860 Yeah.

00:42:18.040 But, yeah, so we get, we feel, so say in that instance, the man, you know, pretends he doesn't see, and then the woman pretends that he didn't, she didn't see the man see the woman.

00:42:29.640 Right.

00:42:30.080 And I guess it's this, it's kind of a song and dance that we do, but it's based in a good, do you think it's based from a good place?

00:42:38.060 Because I feel like the man's intention was he didn't want his wife to feel bad or his girlfriend to feel unwanted.

00:42:44.860 Yeah, but that's treating the symptom.

00:42:46.860 It's not treating the underlying disease.

00:42:50.240 Okay.

00:42:50.600 The underlying disease is feeling that your partner being attracted to other people is an insult to you.

00:43:01.740 Mm.

00:43:02.720 Right?

00:43:03.320 And that's a problem.

00:43:05.660 So I think if we can overcome that, now, of course, I'm not saying, you know, you're walking down the street, you're like, damn, look at that, the ass on that chick.

00:43:14.660 Like, dude, be cool, you know?

00:43:17.200 Don't be an asshole.

00:43:19.360 And same thing with women.

00:43:20.920 Like, you don't need to, like, be insulting to the person you're with, right?

00:43:25.180 Right.

00:43:25.840 But there's no point in not acknowledging that we're living sexual beings and we feel attractions for other people.

00:43:36.140 Yeah.

00:43:36.300 And in fact, in a couple, you know, if I'm with my wife and we're walking down the street and, you know, we're holding hands and I don't see a hot woman, she'll squeeze my hand and be like, ooh, 10 o'clock, 10 o'clock, don't miss her.

00:43:49.020 Like, you know, she's looking out for me, you know?

00:43:51.220 And that makes me feel so close to her because I don't have to pretend like, oh, yeah, she's hot.

00:43:56.220 But, you know, I think we develop these pathologies because of the repression, right?

00:44:03.820 Whereas if you're not repressing it, you're not pretending, you're not lying to yourself and to your partner, then it's not a big deal.

00:44:10.960 Like, yeah, she's hot, whatever, great, you know?

00:44:13.300 You can enjoy it, but it's not a problem.

00:44:16.740 Right.

00:44:17.100 Just like I don't want to buy every beautiful house I see, right?

00:44:20.480 I don't even want to go into it.

00:44:22.540 I just drive on by and it's like, wow, that's a nice house, fine.

00:44:25.980 So I think there's – our appetites get distorted by repression.

00:44:31.180 It's like any pressure, you hold it in, it becomes explosive, you know?

00:44:35.140 And so those repressions are like things whenever you first start dating someone, you say like, oh, I'm not interested.

00:44:40.240 You know, I don't think about other women or I don't – you know, instead of being like, you know, I love you, but if I see a hot woman, I'm going to appreciate that.

00:44:48.260 That would be – it would be almost unnatural.

00:44:50.660 It would be me shutting down a natural desire within my body.

00:44:53.520 Right.

00:44:54.040 Well, it's like I said, like sunset.

00:44:55.560 You see a sunset, you see it.

00:44:57.460 Of course you see it.

00:44:58.360 You've got an appetite for beauty and a capacity to recognize it.

00:45:03.520 How is that a problem?

00:45:04.900 Yeah.

00:45:05.300 You know?

00:45:05.900 And it almost goes back to what you were saying earlier about yourself that, you know, you – anything that doesn't feel natural, you try and you stay away from it.

00:45:14.140 Exactly.

00:45:14.700 It's the same – that's that same thing.

00:45:16.500 Like, I'm really suspicious of anything and we live in a society that's constantly telling us to distrust our appetites.

00:45:25.060 You know, think about a little kid.

00:45:26.880 The first thing that little kid's learning is, no, you eat now because now's when we eat.

00:45:31.200 But I'm not hungry.

00:45:32.060 Doesn't matter.

00:45:32.820 Eat.

00:45:33.500 Oh, go to bed.

00:45:34.340 But I'm not tired.

00:45:35.200 Doesn't matter.

00:45:35.800 Go to bed.

00:45:36.440 Wake up.

00:45:36.920 Oh, I'm really sleepy.

00:45:38.060 No, it doesn't matter.

00:45:38.880 Wake up.

00:45:39.300 So, ignore your body.

00:45:41.420 Ignore your appetites.

00:45:42.780 Ignore the wisdom that's accumulated over millions of years of evolution.

00:45:47.420 Yeah.

00:45:47.720 You know, telling you what to eat, giving you appetites for the things that are going to be good for you.

00:45:52.760 Ignore all that and do what we tell you because margarine is better than butter.

00:45:57.860 Turns out margarine is totally fucked.

00:46:00.440 But when I was growing up, you were told, oh, stay away from that high-fat diet.

00:46:05.380 That'll kill you.

00:46:06.320 No, actually, what you're giving me will kill me.

00:46:08.720 Yeah.

00:46:09.060 You know?

00:46:09.680 So, things taste good for a reason, right?

00:46:13.140 Right.

00:46:13.340 Things, our bodies and our, I think, our something deeper, our spirits, our souls, whatever we're going to talk about, they yearn for connection with other people.

00:46:26.100 And one of the ways that that's expressed is through sexuality.

00:46:28.840 Now, I think because we live in this distorting environment, that can get twisted up and become problematic in lots of ways.

00:46:40.720 Like, relating to some of the stuff we were talking about earlier, like porn, you know, over attention to porn or whatever, or this incel thing that's happening now, or like dudes in high school are shooting people because they got rejected.

00:46:53.960 They're not getting laid.

00:46:54.960 They're not getting laid.

00:46:57.600 Anytime these natural appetites are repressed and denied, bad shit starts to happen.

00:47:04.700 And now, when you say, when you talk about, I love this thing about the incel, like, you know, people, you know, guys, high school guys who are in the, you know, more nerd category, or not nerd, but whatever category, the unwanted.

00:47:17.300 Or if they feel undesirable, you know, or outcasts, and they end up, you know, shooting up a school and, you know, or taking out some type of wild activity like that.

00:47:29.460 In addition to, say, if other people are getting sex around them, and then at the same time, there's this porn that makes it seem even more like sex should be so accessible.

00:47:41.100 I feel like that might be even a greater pressure than we probably faced when I was young.

00:47:45.580 You just heard a rumor about so-and-so fucking, and if you didn't know them, you couldn't even ask them if they did fuck.

00:47:50.500 You just had to assume that, like, I remember in seventh grade or sixth grade, heard about two people fucked by a pool on a bench or something, you know, which now, as I've gotten older, seems way uncomfortable to me, right?

00:48:03.060 Especially in the Louisiana summer.

00:48:05.160 But at the time, I believed every second of it.

00:48:07.940 And whenever I saw that person, I believed it, but I didn't know that boy well enough to ask him.

00:48:12.380 So that was my, I only felt that one, oh, I'm not as good as him, maybe, in that world.

00:48:17.460 But now, if you feel a few of those things, and then you also have this porn constantly available, like sex is, yes, sex, sex, everybody should be able to have it.

00:48:26.460 Well, not just porn, but advertising, right?

00:48:29.020 Everything, they're selling hamburgers and trucks and beer, and it's all tits and ass, and, you know, everything's about sex, sex, sex, everywhere.

00:48:37.180 And then they tell us also that we shouldn't look at women a certain way.

00:48:40.200 Now, there's this whole other movement, like, don't look at women sexually, but yet you've raised a society for the past 40, 50 years of seeing sex along with, you know, here's some tits with this, you know, blender.

00:48:53.760 You know what I'm saying?

00:48:54.560 You can't make a shake without a-

00:48:56.440 That's a bad combination.

00:48:57.260 Without a shake.

00:48:57.980 Yeah, it's a dangerous combination, but you can't, you know, it's that bait and switch that advertising has done for a long time.

00:49:03.520 Sure.

00:49:03.780 And then now there's this huge push against those same people who are really just victims of advertising to say that you can't look at women sexually.

00:49:12.400 Yeah.

00:49:12.920 There's a lot going on.

00:49:15.020 There is.

00:49:15.740 There is.

00:49:16.360 And I think the suffering of the teenage male who is not able to connect with women is a huge problem that isn't getting talked about.

00:49:30.760 I mean, now with the incel, it's starting to be talked about, but still not with any kind of sympathy or understanding.

00:49:38.060 And look, just to be clear, I'm not saying that this is the fault of women.

00:49:43.140 I'm certainly not.

00:49:44.040 No, it doesn't sound like that at all.

00:49:45.320 I don't think anyone's taken it like that.

00:49:46.820 If they are, they're out of their minds.

00:49:48.020 Yeah, but it's important to say that because I think women, you know, historically get blamed for a lot.

00:49:53.520 That they're as much victims of or more victims of, you know, like promiscuity, you know, in Sex at Dawn, we argue that we evolved to be pretty promiscuous species, which is evident in, you know, so much everywhere.

00:50:09.400 But a lot of times people would be like, you know, well, why aren't women more relaxed about sex then?

00:50:17.040 Why aren't women, you know, just more openly just fucking whoever they want?

00:50:20.680 Well, how about because for thousands of years they've been burned at the stake?

00:50:24.580 For doing that.

00:50:25.120 For doing that.

00:50:25.840 For even talking about it.

00:50:27.320 Yeah.

00:50:27.560 Yeah.

00:50:27.780 Or like left to starve in the streets, right?

00:50:30.460 You dirty whore, get the fuck out of my house.

00:50:32.480 You looked at another man, you know?

00:50:34.960 It's like the women have, for thousands of years, had to deal with incredible oppression.

00:50:42.920 Oh, they've taken the brunt of evolution in a lot of ways.

00:50:45.900 Well, I'm not even talking about evolution.

00:50:47.220 I'm talking about culture.

00:50:48.620 Okay, yeah.

00:50:49.120 They've taken the brunt of, yeah.

00:50:51.540 What have they taken the brunt of?

00:50:52.620 Yeah, it's like whenever there's something, women have put up with a lot.

00:50:56.920 Yeah.

00:50:57.620 Yeah.

00:50:57.880 So when I talk about the frustration of teenage boys who can't connect to women, yeah, that's

00:51:04.960 why I'm very careful saying I'm not blaming the women.

00:51:07.440 Yeah.

00:51:07.620 I get it.

00:51:09.200 But it is a problem.

00:51:10.760 And I think there's a lot of rage.

00:51:13.820 And it's not just sex.

00:51:15.060 I mean, hey, there's nothing hornier than a 14-year-old boy.

00:51:18.360 Yeah.

00:51:18.620 Oh, I'd put one in my fucking dick right now if I could just to help me.

00:51:22.120 I'd drink the blood of one, bro.

00:51:23.640 Yeah, well, they used to take the testicles of chimpanzees and grind them up and then inject

00:51:32.720 that into men's testicles.

00:51:34.420 Damn.

00:51:35.060 Yeah.

00:51:35.820 Damn.

00:51:36.760 Whoa, bro.

00:51:38.200 What?

00:51:38.320 Yeah, people would do some weird shit to try to get horny.

00:51:41.460 Wow, dude.

00:51:42.720 I would hide one in my ass.

00:51:44.060 Maybe I'm not shooting one into my nuts with a needle.

00:51:46.600 You'd hide a 14-year-old boy in your ass?

00:51:48.500 No, no, no, no.

00:51:50.940 But I'd hide.

00:51:51.680 Hide.

00:51:52.040 They're coming.

00:51:53.640 I'd hide a couple chimpanzees nuts in my ass to strengthen me.

00:52:01.560 I'm on Cialis right now from India.

00:52:03.500 I'm buying that shit.

00:52:04.240 It makes my legs sweat, but it makes me feel alert.

00:52:07.820 Now, wait a minute.

00:52:08.620 You're bumming out because you're jerking off three times a week, but you're taking Cialis?

00:52:13.500 I mean, if I want to be sexually involved or feel that way, sometimes I'll pop on just

00:52:19.440 to feel that extra adventure when I'm walking around town.

00:52:21.640 Extra adventure.

00:52:24.960 Yeah, because I don't bone.

00:52:26.020 I mean, when I was young, I used to bone up like a damn, like somebody looking for nickels

00:52:30.340 at the beach.

00:52:30.940 I wish you no, but now I just don't get it.

00:52:34.400 Did it beep too?

00:52:35.320 I wish you.

00:52:36.440 I mean, it should have.

00:52:37.940 I think it could whistle a little.

00:52:39.420 But now I don't get that anymore.

00:52:42.480 I just don't.

00:52:44.580 And I don't get it in LA that much.

00:52:46.120 There's so much going on here that I'm, and I feel like I'm hyper aware sometimes and I

00:52:51.360 feel a constant anxiety when I'm here.

00:52:53.820 But the second I landed in any other city, man, I mean, it could be Toledo and I'll fucking

00:52:58.120 be erect right when we hit the runway.

00:53:00.260 And you get a Toledo hard on it.

00:53:01.800 Oh, yeah.

00:53:02.240 Yeah.

00:53:03.180 I think that's the name of the roller derby team.

00:53:07.060 I think it's the name of a steak that's served there, too.

00:53:10.640 Well done.

00:53:11.880 Yeah.

00:53:12.460 But no, I want to get back to some of the stuff you were talking about with young men.

00:53:15.940 I think there's another element there.

00:53:17.940 And this is just that a lot of young men were raised out of split parents.

00:53:22.700 And so the thing, there's this weird connection, too, where a lot of men looked at their mothers

00:53:27.280 as fathers as well or something.

00:53:29.900 And so there's an element there I'm finding in my generation where even in their 30s, a

00:53:35.780 lot of men are having trouble with women.

00:53:38.060 And we noticed it even just from the podcast, man.

00:53:39.980 So many guys reaching out, like addicted to masturbate, addicted to porn, or at least

00:53:45.280 they feel they are.

00:53:46.280 Yeah, and you see it in like Jordan Peterson, Sam Harris, Joe Rogan, me, you, Duncan.

00:53:55.460 Like I think the podcast world, a lot of what's going on there is a lot of the audience is

00:54:02.660 young people and I think disproportionately men looking for some sort of guidance because

00:54:09.040 as you say, they didn't have a father figure in the house.

00:54:12.460 And there's a big hunger for that.

00:54:15.100 But justifiably so.

00:54:16.860 And I think it's, you know, when somebody acknowledges their vulnerability, that's such

00:54:24.720 a strong thing to do, you know?

00:54:26.660 Amen.

00:54:27.820 So, you know, people who are doing that, who are reaching out to you or Joe or me or whatever,

00:54:33.240 I always really respect that because like until you know you need something, until you know

00:54:41.020 like that you're missing something, then you're just an asshole.

00:54:44.640 Yeah.

00:54:44.880 You know, you're just running around thinking you got it figured out, doing damage.

00:54:48.640 But once you stop and say, oh, wait a minute, I got to stop and think about this and ask

00:54:53.900 somebody for help.

00:54:54.720 That's a really important moment in your life.

00:54:57.060 Yeah.

00:54:57.780 I mean, that's so, yeah, you say that vulnerability, that asking for somebody for help.

00:55:01.400 I remember, yeah, I mean, I still notice just how huge that is now.

00:55:06.780 Like even if, if I'm having a moment with someone where I feel like I don't want to tell

00:55:09.960 them something, to then like take a moment and actually share whatever that is, you know,

00:55:15.160 that feeling, you know, like, you know, right now I'm upset.

00:55:19.140 And, you know, the reason why is this, instead of just leaving the house and, you know, that

00:55:24.340 old fashioned, you know, caveman run out of the house and hold it all in, that vulnerability.

00:55:31.300 It's amazing how I never in my life knew how to be vulnerable.

00:55:34.480 I just didn't even know you could.

00:55:36.080 Right.

00:55:36.200 I felt probably vulnerable, you know, but I just never knew how to, you know, even tell

00:55:44.360 a woman like, look, I'm, you know, I feel nervous or I feel this way or to show up even

00:55:51.480 if you go to talk to a girl that you think is attractive, like I fucking, you know, usually

00:55:57.020 if I saw a girl as attractive as you, I'd just go, you know, jerk off in my car, but I'm

00:56:01.260 trying to come over and say, hey, this time.

00:56:03.360 Yeah.

00:56:03.580 Just vulnerability is huge.

00:56:06.160 And the thing that, that young men don't understand, and I certainly didn't understand

00:56:10.080 when I was young is that like women are way ahead of us in a lot of ways.

00:56:15.580 And one of them is that.

00:56:17.880 Wow.

00:56:18.280 I feel like I'm listening to the book right now.

00:56:19.720 This is so crazy.

00:56:20.500 I just had that moment just because of your voice.

00:56:23.000 Sorry.

00:56:23.520 Oh, right.

00:56:24.100 Oh, yeah.

00:56:25.080 I interrupt you though.

00:56:26.120 And one of them is.

00:56:26.920 One of them is that women in, not all women, but a lot of women are deeply attracted to vulnerable

00:56:36.320 men, like not, I'm not telling you like cry, you know, like all the time, but I have found

00:56:44.040 that women, like, like I get a lot of emails from people saying, oh, I could, my girlfriend

00:56:48.680 would never accept, like, you know, I can't talk about this stuff with her, blah, blah,

00:56:52.440 blah.

00:56:52.620 Right.

00:56:53.180 The thing is, I also get those emails from women saying, I wish my boyfriend would be

00:56:57.440 more honest with me.

00:56:58.260 I wish he'd tell me, you know, the thing is when you're really honest and vulnerable

00:57:03.000 with a woman, it makes her feel safe because she knows you're, you're real and she can

00:57:08.980 trust you and that you're not thinking something that you're not going to say, you're not hiding

00:57:15.660 things.

00:57:16.440 That's what women are really afraid of is like, what are you hiding?

00:57:20.480 What's going on?

00:57:21.740 What, what do you have in your pocket that's going to come out and stab me in the back,

00:57:25.520 you know?

00:57:25.980 Yeah.

00:57:26.220 And so if they meet a guy who's like, look, I mean, when I, when I met Casilda, I laid

00:57:33.380 some shit out on the table to her about, you know, being attracted to other women and stuff

00:57:38.140 and she said to me, she looked at me and she said, you know, I grew up in Africa, I've

00:57:45.600 been a psychiatrist for 10 years or whatever it was and I know how men are, I know how the

00:57:50.180 world is, but you're the first man who's ever had the balls to tell me that, right?

00:57:55.960 Like she knew it.

00:57:57.240 She knew everything.

00:57:58.400 Most women know how men are.

00:57:59.940 They know how we think they know.

00:58:01.940 But the fact that I said it out loud and I said it to her early and I was like, look,

00:58:06.820 you know, here's, here's who I am.

00:58:08.900 You got to know this.

00:58:10.760 That established a basis for our relationship.

00:58:13.340 We're still together 20 years later.

00:58:15.480 And I think that women will forgive and men too, I think we'll forgive a lot more than

00:58:23.660 we, uh, than we think if they know you're being honest with them, if they know you're

00:58:29.200 being straight and they don't need to worry about what you're not telling them, you know?

00:58:34.140 No, I, I couldn't agree with you more.

00:58:36.200 I couldn't agree with you more.

00:58:37.380 I mean, I, I've spent, I've spent relationships in the past just hiding the truth and like,

00:58:42.740 you know, things that I, you know, I was, you know, cheating or lying or running around

00:58:47.600 with these, with other women, but I still was in love with the person that I was with.

00:58:51.260 But, and then that made it, that made everything else so complicated because then every time

00:58:55.560 I looked at the, my girlfriend, I had these lies inside of me.

00:58:59.460 Um, and so it, it just created, and then I would begin to resent her for not even knowing

00:59:04.880 I was a liar at some point, which was so baffling.

00:59:08.440 It was like, you know, just what a sickness it all becomes.

00:59:12.040 Yeah.

00:59:12.340 Yeah.

00:59:12.760 But how does a man who had a relation, who has a, who's in a relationship now and they

00:59:17.100 see, you know, that they, they wish they could be more honest.

00:59:21.380 Is there a way for some of these guys to kind of backtrack or women?

00:59:25.000 Um, cause we do have a lot of female listeners as well for them to backtrack and, and get

00:59:29.000 into a more comfortable space.

00:59:31.640 Well, yeah, I, I mean, it, it, it's harder when you're already in the relationship to sort

00:59:37.260 of go back and reestablish where you are.

00:59:40.180 But I think a lot of people do that.

00:59:42.020 And, and I think, you know, what I say to people, um, is figure out what your non-negotiables

00:59:50.700 are and then don't negotiate.

00:59:52.640 I think that's a mistake that a lot of people make.

00:59:55.660 Um, so if you're already in the relationship, then the question I have is, do you have kids?

01:00:03.500 If you have kids, they really kind of have to be the top priority a hundred percent.

01:00:10.020 And, um, so then it's about, okay, how do we keep this ship afloat as, you know, until

01:00:18.640 these kids are up and out on their own or, or whatever the best we can do.

01:00:23.080 Um, but if you're in a relationship and you don't have kids, then it's like, uh, you know,

01:00:30.000 take some MDMA and have a, go for a hike, you know, go camping and get real with each

01:00:35.380 other, go sit by the beach, go sit by a campfire, get away from all the distractions and yeah,

01:00:43.220 lay your shit out, you know?

01:00:45.200 And, and because, I mean, it's so funny.

01:00:48.480 We, the way we live our lives is like, oh, I want to be with you for the rest of my life,

01:00:53.660 but I don't want you to really know who I am.

01:00:55.600 Well, what the fuck kind of relationship is that?

01:00:57.660 You're going to spend your whole life with someone who doesn't know you.

01:01:01.220 Really?

01:01:01.780 That's what you want to do.

01:01:02.980 Why?

01:01:03.300 Because you're so ugly that you're afraid if they know you that they'll leave you.

01:01:07.000 Well, I've got news for you.

01:01:08.200 They're thinking the same thing and there's no more beautiful moment than when you show

01:01:13.180 the thing that you're afraid of to someone and they're like, yeah, I knew that was there.

01:01:19.000 I love you anyway, man.

01:01:20.260 Of course, that's, that's a relationship.

01:01:23.220 That's what you want.

01:01:23.560 And that's real love too.

01:01:24.700 That's real love.

01:01:25.440 Exactly.

01:01:26.540 Yeah.

01:01:27.000 I had a moment with my mother, I think, um, where I realized like that no matter what

01:01:35.220 she ever did to me or whatever I thought she did or even things that, or however our relationship

01:01:39.280 was that I loved her in spite of that.

01:01:43.440 And I'd never had that thought before.

01:01:45.440 Like my whole life I'd always, you know, I think I still battle with a lot of things

01:01:49.400 because, you know, my father was 70 when I was born, you know, my mother was, um, working

01:01:54.900 all the time.

01:01:55.480 There just wasn't, you know, a lot of disconnection things that were, that are, that are almost

01:01:59.640 just built into the fabric of me, you know?

01:02:02.040 Right.

01:02:02.100 Right.

01:02:02.460 Uh, but I don't, I think I'd always held those things against her or, or, or, or put

01:02:07.280 them on opposite sides of the scale of my love for her.

01:02:10.120 Hmm.

01:02:10.480 Um, so one kind of had to be balancing the other or something.

01:02:15.040 Yeah.

01:02:15.280 And the, and this was the first time I ever thought that, you know, uh, and I said to

01:02:20.880 her, I said, look, you know, no matter what ever has happened between us, or even that

01:02:25.520 I've thought has happened, you know, that I love you no matter what you ever did to me

01:02:29.660 or I thought you ever did to me.

01:02:30.960 Um, and that was like one of the greatest moments I ever had in my life.

01:02:35.400 And I didn't know I could even have that.

01:02:37.680 Right.

01:02:38.180 But it was like the scariest thing for me to say that I would love somebody even if they

01:02:43.740 hurt me.

01:02:44.360 Right.

01:02:44.780 Or I thought they did.

01:02:45.860 Right.

01:02:46.440 And, uh, and it was powerful for her too.

01:02:48.300 Cause I'm sure if she's probably has thought in her life that she didn't do good enough.

01:02:53.080 Cause I bet a lot of parents feel that.

01:02:54.760 All of them.

01:02:55.580 Yeah.

01:02:56.240 Yeah.

01:02:56.760 And it's, but it goes back to a vulnerability, just like, uh, I don't know.

01:03:02.200 Um, I don't know why I brought that up.

01:03:04.580 Well, I, you know, unconditional love and acceptance.

01:03:07.940 Yes.

01:03:08.660 Uh, also there's a difference, you know, talking about romantic love, there's a difference between

01:03:15.620 loving someone and being in love with someone.

01:03:19.260 And I think we tend to conflate that and get those things mixed up.

01:03:23.080 Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

01:03:24.680 Cause I feel like I could have some trouble with that.

01:03:26.560 Yeah.

01:03:27.080 You know, I think being in love is that, uh, you know, we say falling in love in English.

01:03:35.540 Um, in Spanish, there are two words for love.

01:03:38.040 There's te quiero and te amo and te quiero literally means I want you.

01:03:43.020 It's about desire, possession, you know, you want to be with them all the time.

01:03:49.800 You, you just don't want to fuck all the time.

01:03:52.140 Ay caramba.

01:03:52.580 Yeah.

01:03:53.700 Exactly.

01:03:54.360 That kind of love.

01:03:55.580 Um, but then that wears away, that burns off, you know, and then, then you find out if you

01:04:05.320 love the person or not.

01:04:06.800 Right.

01:04:07.200 And the problem is that, you know, people are making these major decisions on their lives,

01:04:12.020 like who they're going to have kids with and live with and, you know, introduced to all

01:04:16.020 their friends and all that based upon that, that drunkness.

01:04:19.940 Yeah.

01:04:20.360 You know, that, you know, she's so hot and, you know, I love the way she smiles and, you

01:04:26.120 know, what, he's got a great job and a great sense of humor and whatever.

01:04:29.900 And then you get past that stuff and it's like, oh, you're just a person.

01:04:34.840 I'm just a person.

01:04:35.780 Now we figure out if we respect each other, if we actually want to hang out, you know?

01:04:41.320 So that's love and that's what's left when that other shit burns away, if, if it was

01:04:48.780 ever there to begin with.

01:04:49.900 Right.

01:04:50.580 And so there's, there's this book called The Erotic Mind by Jack Morin that probably came

01:04:57.500 out in the seventies or eighties.

01:04:59.000 I remember there's, um.

01:05:00.600 Is that recommended reading by you?

01:05:02.300 Well, yeah.

01:05:03.420 I don't really remember the book, to be honest.

01:05:05.240 I just remember this one, um, this one formula in it, um, so I can't really recommend the

01:05:11.380 book because this is all I remember from it.

01:05:12.900 But he says, um, attraction plus an obstacle equals passion.

01:05:22.960 So you think of every love story.

01:05:25.240 It's, I want to be with you, but you're, you're married.

01:05:29.360 You're from another religion.

01:05:31.360 You're in a high tower.

01:05:32.680 Yeah, exactly.

01:05:33.580 Your parents, our parents won't let us, we're different classes, we're different races

01:05:37.460 and we're in the South and, you know, whatever.

01:05:39.620 And so that obstacle builds up, it takes this desire where if there were no obstacle, it

01:05:45.660 might be like, yeah, you went out and whatever, she's cool.

01:05:48.800 But, you know, it's just a long haired girl that lives on the first floor.

01:05:51.840 Exactly.

01:05:53.480 Exactly.

01:05:55.040 But it turns into this giant love story because of the obstacle.

01:05:58.720 Yeah.

01:05:58.920 So what do we do?

01:05:59.720 So you meet, let's say you meet the woman of your dreams.

01:06:02.580 She lives in New York and you're in LA and, oh, you know, you see each other and now there's

01:06:07.200 an obstacle and it's really hot and you can't wait to see her and you schedule your tour

01:06:11.760 so you can be where she is and you do all this stuff.

01:06:14.460 And then eventually it gets to the point where like, you know, let's move in together.

01:06:17.900 And so she moves out to LA and now you're living together.

01:06:21.400 And six months later, it's like, fuck, what did I do?

01:06:24.820 Yeah.

01:06:25.400 What have I done?

01:06:26.420 You're hanging out with the plants instead of her.

01:06:28.120 Yeah.

01:06:28.500 My life was so good before.

01:06:30.180 You started a garden.

01:06:31.220 You removed the obstacle.

01:06:32.580 Yeah.

01:06:32.860 So are you saying that it's better than to keep an obstacle in the relationship at all

01:06:37.620 times?

01:06:37.920 If that is that one element that we can use to help our relationships or and I know you're

01:06:43.740 not saying and we're just thinking, but are you thinking that maybe the alternative to

01:06:49.540 that is a different path where there's a love first, a reality first, and then the sex comes

01:06:57.960 kind of tertiary to that?

01:07:00.120 Well, what I'm saying is that it's the nature of existence for the passion to evaporate when

01:07:09.980 you've removed the obstacle.

01:07:11.900 And so you can't blame that.

01:07:15.880 Like a lot of people get together and the sex is really good.

01:07:19.120 It's super hot.

01:07:20.080 And then four years later, it's like, it's kind of worn out.

01:07:23.680 They're not.

01:07:24.500 And they say, oh, this relationship, this isn't the right guy.

01:07:28.420 This isn't the right woman.

01:07:29.680 This relationship isn't as good as I thought it was.

01:07:32.140 That's not necessarily true.

01:07:34.160 What's happened is that you've just, you know, you're a certain kind of animal and you

01:07:39.760 get bored and it's not, that doesn't mean that that's not a good guy or a good woman

01:07:45.480 or a good relationship.

01:07:46.440 It just means you're homo sapiens, right?

01:07:48.900 Like if you ate Thai food every night for the rest of your life, after a while, you'd

01:07:53.020 be like, fucking Thai food again, right?

01:07:54.860 Yeah.

01:07:55.180 That doesn't mean Thai food's not good.

01:07:57.160 It's my favorite food in the world, but I wouldn't want to eat it every night.

01:08:00.540 So...

01:08:00.740 It's like doing magic.

01:08:01.720 Like I tried to do a magic for a while and after a while, I was like, fuck magic,

01:08:04.880 dude.

01:08:06.240 You know?

01:08:07.300 Fuck magic, yeah.

01:08:08.460 I mean, at a certain point.

01:08:09.200 But yeah, that's what you're saying.

01:08:10.260 So it's like...

01:08:10.800 Yeah, you wear out the fascination.

01:08:12.760 And that doesn't mean it's not, the person's not cool.

01:08:15.740 Right.

01:08:15.820 So what I'm saying is, understand that.

01:08:18.380 Understand that.

01:08:18.960 And don't blame yourself or her or...

01:08:21.160 Mm.

01:08:21.620 Right?

01:08:21.920 Or if you want to maintain that, then yeah, you got to keep an obstacle.

01:08:26.960 Then say, all right, we're going to have a long distance relationship.

01:08:29.440 Or we're going to vacation separately.

01:08:32.160 Like learn, like miss each other sometimes.

01:08:35.060 Yeah.

01:08:35.380 You know?

01:08:36.380 Don't work together.

01:08:37.700 Don't be together all the time, even though that's what it feels like you want to do.

01:08:41.720 Mm.

01:08:42.120 That's a disaster.

01:08:44.600 That's...

01:08:45.240 You know, you need resistance.

01:08:46.880 You work out.

01:08:47.580 You need resistance.

01:08:48.520 You need to lift the weight.

01:08:49.560 Yeah.

01:08:49.640 You need to push against something.

01:08:50.780 And I struggle with that at times.

01:08:52.280 There are moments when I'm needy, when I feel needy.

01:08:55.480 And I will, instead of like experiencing some of that need or that desire, letting it build

01:09:01.040 up or, you know, even for that person, I'll immediately call them or immediately text them.

01:09:08.200 And it kind of takes a little bit of valve off of the overall desire for them.

01:09:13.020 And I think in a weird way that now I'm thinking about it, it might be what happens to me sometimes

01:09:17.140 sexually.

01:09:18.260 Like, I'm afraid to let my sexual desires build up because maybe I'm afraid of, you know,

01:09:24.460 what will happen then.

01:09:25.260 Like, I'm not thinking I'm going to be a rapist or nothing like that, but I'm just thinking

01:09:27.980 that I might, you know, create a stronger bond with a woman that I really care about, you

01:09:32.980 know?

01:09:33.160 So I think maybe that sometimes, I never really thought about it, but that could be some of

01:09:38.240 the reason why, you know, go to pornography or find an outlet, you know, masturbate or

01:09:43.360 something.

01:09:44.620 And I know I'm, you know, I don't mean to keep coming back to my case, but I just, I

01:09:48.700 noticed that I have an unhealthy relationship with it.

01:09:51.040 And so I'm still in the search of kind of figuring out what some of that is, you know?

01:09:54.280 Right.

01:09:55.080 Right.

01:09:55.320 And I'm okay with it because I am, you know, I'm open to learning and I'm, you know, taking

01:10:00.220 on new ideas.

01:10:02.240 Yeah.

01:10:02.840 I did want to ask you though about hitchhiking, man, if you don't mind.

01:10:06.240 And, uh, I know it's a full circle, but bro, sometimes the ride, you know, sometimes you

01:10:12.100 don't know where the ride's going to go.

01:10:13.460 Yeah.

01:10:14.040 Yeah.

01:10:14.440 I think I was like the last of the hitchhikers, you know, nobody hitchhikes anymore.

01:10:20.140 People are like, man, there's one left and it's a dude.

01:10:22.580 All right, I'll take him.

01:10:24.160 It's like me and guys who just got out of prison are the only people out there.

01:10:28.920 Do you, do you think we, we lost something by not having those days?

01:10:32.200 What was that like?

01:10:32.880 I mean, you threw the thumb up or you were meeting people at truck stops or?

01:10:36.240 No, I, I just sat and stood on the side of the road.

01:10:40.360 Um, you know, who did it recently actually that, uh, the director, James Franco, I wouldn't

01:10:47.560 be surprised.

01:10:48.280 Um, but no, this, this guy who did pink flamingos and faster pussycat kill, kill, kill.

01:10:54.880 He's, he's from Baltimore.

01:10:56.220 John Waters.

01:10:57.360 Yeah.

01:10:57.860 He hitchhiked across the country and then he wrote a book about it.

01:11:01.900 And, and I remember.

01:11:03.940 No, he's a film director.

01:11:05.180 That's Roger Waters.

01:11:05.820 I'm thinking Roger Waters.

01:11:07.260 John Waters is a, he's a homosexual man.

01:11:09.640 Yeah.

01:11:09.880 Yeah.

01:11:10.100 Yeah.

01:11:10.200 Yeah.

01:11:10.380 Yeah.

01:11:12.160 Really cool guy.

01:11:13.280 Super interesting.

01:11:13.860 Yeah.

01:11:13.960 People say he's the best.

01:11:15.040 Sorry to mean to describe him just as a homosexual man.

01:11:17.100 Yeah.

01:11:17.280 He's an artist.

01:11:18.080 Yeah.

01:11:18.640 Producer.

01:11:19.100 He's a creator.

01:11:19.900 And his, his films are like flamboyantly kind of campy gay.

01:11:24.540 Yeah.

01:11:24.840 It's not like he hides it or anything.

01:11:26.380 He's Palm Springs.

01:11:27.080 He's like the mayor of Palm Springs.

01:11:28.340 Oh, is he?

01:11:28.800 I don't know if he is, but everywhere you go there, everybody says they know him.

01:11:32.700 Oh, yeah.

01:11:33.800 But anyhow, go on.

01:11:35.160 I'm sorry.

01:11:35.480 He, he, he did it.

01:11:36.400 So he hitchhiked across the country.

01:11:37.900 Yeah.

01:11:38.620 Wow.

01:11:39.020 Yeah.

01:11:39.220 And I remember like a van of like musicians on tour picked him up.

01:11:44.180 They drove by him and they're like, that was fucking John Waters.

01:11:46.940 Like what?

01:11:47.760 And they like backed up and he goes like, you're John Waters.

01:11:50.480 Like, yeah.

01:11:50.760 But yeah, so a lot of people picked him up, didn't know who he was though.

01:11:54.120 Yeah.

01:11:54.520 So he just.

01:11:55.060 You'd think the fancy umbrella would be a dead giveaway though.

01:11:58.180 The cape.

01:11:59.040 But yeah, what, how fascinating.

01:12:00.600 Was it, were you, did you find there was more fear by the pick-upper or by you?

01:12:10.060 Well, I think if they were afraid, they didn't, they didn't stop.

01:12:13.200 So I, I don't remember many people being afraid of me.

01:12:17.500 If they were afraid, they didn't stop.

01:12:19.000 That's a good point.

01:12:19.580 Yeah.

01:12:21.380 No one's like, I'm so fucking scared.

01:12:22.940 Let me stop and open my door.

01:12:24.240 Yeah.

01:12:24.840 That's a good point.

01:12:25.860 I never thought about that.

01:12:26.780 Screw a roller coaster.

01:12:28.040 I'm going to pitch up a hitchhiker.

01:12:30.080 Yeah.

01:12:30.520 You're making a commitment too.

01:12:32.100 I mean, I, I, we hitchhiked, I met, so I hitchhiked from New York to Seattle the first

01:12:37.840 year.

01:12:38.180 I did, I did this twice, two years in a row.

01:12:40.840 So I went from New York to Seattle and then I took the, this Alaskan ferry up the inside

01:12:47.160 passage to.

01:12:48.940 And that's not another John Waters reference either, guys.

01:12:51.700 The inside passage.

01:12:52.740 Yeah.

01:12:53.240 No, the Alaskan ferry.

01:12:54.680 Oh, yeah.

01:12:56.340 Sorry.

01:12:57.480 Sorry.

01:12:57.920 They both work.

01:12:59.620 That's true.

01:13:01.360 And now, so the ferry was that, so that was more of just kind of a traveling thing.

01:13:06.160 It wasn't a hitchhike.

01:13:06.920 You didn't have to hitchhike to get onto a ferry.

01:13:08.200 No, no.

01:13:08.660 I just paid and you could camp out on the, on the deck.

01:13:12.760 Wow.

01:13:13.020 They had like a cover.

01:13:14.140 It was amazing.

01:13:14.860 And the stars you must have seen must have been.

01:13:16.320 Well, yeah, didn't see a lot of stars because it doesn't really get dark in Alaska in the

01:13:21.780 summer.

01:13:22.080 Oh, yeah.

01:13:23.160 So, but orcas and bears and bald eagles everywhere.

01:13:27.920 It's really nice.

01:13:28.880 So, up the, it's like four or five days up the inside passage and then you get off at

01:13:33.480 either Haynes or Skagway and then hitchhike up through the Yukon and then across to Fairbanks

01:13:40.240 and then down to Kenai and different places.

01:13:43.500 I went sewered in different places.

01:13:45.360 So, it's a long fucking hitch.

01:13:47.300 And it's a manly trek too.

01:13:48.720 I mean, that's a lot of, you know, you're seeing a lot of animals.

01:13:51.560 You're seeing a lot of nature.

01:13:52.860 Yeah.

01:13:52.980 So, imagine at that time, you said that was kind of a transformative time, but there's

01:13:55.820 also this, this ambiance of that you're not alone in the universe.

01:14:00.460 There's other animals.

01:14:01.180 There's, you know, and that's a manly trek.

01:14:02.720 That's ice cold out there.

01:14:04.720 Not in the summer.

01:14:05.780 Oh, okay.

01:14:06.520 Yeah.

01:14:06.560 In the summer, it's pretty warm.

01:14:09.380 But yeah, I mean, there are bears around and you got to have all your food with you.

01:14:12.980 You got a tent, you got a sleeping bag, you got, you know, you got to take care of yourself.

01:14:18.080 It was a rite of passage for me.

01:14:19.960 It was good.

01:14:20.520 And then, yeah, and then coming back, I took the train across Canada one year and then I

01:14:26.000 hitched from Montreal down to New York to see this woman.

01:14:29.480 That was a weird one.

01:14:30.940 I was coming down through the Adirondacks and like the middle of nowhere and it was getting

01:14:40.200 dark and I was starting to think, you know, okay, I'm going to like another 20 minutes

01:14:45.980 and I'm going to go, you know, find a place to crash in the woods here.

01:14:49.560 And this guy stops and I get in the car and the dude's like big muscles, tats, crew cut,

01:15:00.460 ex-military looking guy.

01:15:02.880 And I always had this, like I wore jeans and I had these NAM boots and I had a knife inside

01:15:13.480 my boot under my jeans and my right leg just because it-

01:15:17.760 It seems like everybody's really-

01:15:19.680 If shit got weird, you know, I'm sitting there and I can just-

01:15:23.000 That's easy.

01:15:23.680 You know?

01:15:24.160 It's not like I can have an open, like hold on, let me get a knife and open your bag.

01:15:27.160 Yeah.

01:15:27.620 No, no.

01:15:28.340 Yeah.

01:15:28.500 Like, can I get in the trunk?

01:15:31.480 And I never had to use it.

01:15:34.580 I never pulled it out.

01:15:35.980 But it was just like if somebody, if things got really weird-

01:15:39.080 You had it.

01:15:39.440 I had it, you know, something.

01:15:41.300 Anyway, so I get in this car and there's a little small talk with this dude and, you

01:15:46.900 know, where are you going?

01:15:47.880 Where are you?

01:15:48.360 I was in Alaska and he's like, yeah, yeah, okay.

01:15:51.920 He says, so you like knives?

01:15:54.880 Like that.

01:15:56.520 And I was like, yeah, like, yeah, knives are cool.

01:16:01.300 And he said, I noticed you have one in your right boot.

01:16:04.740 Wow.

01:16:05.440 I was like, uh.

01:16:07.740 So then you feel like a murderer.

01:16:10.360 Well, I feel like I'm about to get murdered, maybe.

01:16:14.580 Like, how did he know I have a knife in my right boot?

01:16:17.140 Like, it's under my jeans.

01:16:18.600 Maybe he was right, like, maybe he could smell knives, I guess.

01:16:22.840 So I'm like, I say, well, it's just, I'm hitchhiking.

01:16:27.060 It's just something that, you know, blah, blah, blah.

01:16:29.580 And he's like, yeah, that's cool.

01:16:30.820 That's cool.

01:16:31.140 And he grabs his belt buckle.

01:16:33.920 He's got this big belt buckle.

01:16:35.040 He pulls, and there's a knife.

01:16:37.480 No.

01:16:38.000 It's a handle of a knife.

01:16:39.340 And the blade's, like, under his belt.

01:16:41.560 And he goes like that.

01:16:42.640 And he's holding it right in front of my face, this fucking, like, six-inch dagger.

01:16:46.760 Fuck!

01:16:47.140 You thought you were dead.

01:16:48.040 I'm like, yeah, I'm going to die now.

01:16:49.520 Because I'm in the middle of nowhere.

01:16:51.500 Sun's going down.

01:16:52.680 No cars anywhere.

01:16:53.880 That's where people die.

01:16:55.040 Yeah.

01:16:55.400 He might dump my body anywhere.

01:16:57.220 Yeah.

01:16:57.420 He's probably been riding up and down here for decades.

01:16:59.260 He's like, hey!

01:17:00.400 He finally got a hitchhiker.

01:17:01.480 Another one.

01:17:03.340 Anyway, so this knife's right in front of me.

01:17:05.720 And I say, oh, that's a nice knife.

01:17:10.020 He says, yeah.

01:17:11.080 And I said, can I hold it?

01:17:12.200 And he's like, yeah, go ahead.

01:17:13.180 Ooh.

01:17:13.760 And I took it.

01:17:14.520 And I was like, that's beautiful, man.

01:17:16.120 And I give it back to him.

01:17:17.000 He puts it back.

01:17:17.660 And he says, yeah, I got another one here.

01:17:18.820 He's got like three knives on his body.

01:17:21.160 Oh, my God.

01:17:21.900 Turns out this dude was a prison warden.

01:17:24.640 There's a high security prison up there.

01:17:27.100 And he was a warden.

01:17:28.400 And so when he saw me on the side of the road, he scanned me and immediately saw a bulge in my jeans.

01:17:35.420 Wow.

01:17:35.740 And he's like, yeah, that's what he does for a living, you know?

01:17:39.400 And that was an important experience for me because it made it clear to me that the knife was not going to save me.

01:17:52.680 The knife was going to get me in trouble.

01:17:54.720 And that there were, like, I was an amateur and there are pros.

01:17:58.540 There are pros.

01:17:58.880 And before, you'd always thought you were the pro.

01:18:01.360 I thought, I got a secret.

01:18:02.860 Yeah.

01:18:03.260 And it turns out, no, dude, you don't have a secret.

01:18:05.580 Like, if you're dealing with someone where you would need a weapon, the chances are you're dealing with someone who's five steps ahead of you.

01:18:13.260 Wow.

01:18:13.920 And, you know, it's like lying to cops.

01:18:16.800 Like a detective, not a guy pulled you over, you know, speeding.

01:18:20.040 Right.

01:18:20.820 Detectives spend all day being lied to.

01:18:24.000 You know, you're not going to bullshit a fucking cop.

01:18:26.780 Yeah, that's a good point.

01:18:26.800 You know, it doesn't matter if you're smarter than him.

01:18:29.820 He does that for a living.

01:18:31.780 You don't.

01:18:32.480 It's like getting into a fist fight with Joe Rogan.

01:18:35.240 Like, it's not going to go well.

01:18:36.400 Yeah.

01:18:36.600 You know, it's just not going to happen.

01:18:38.720 It's so funny.

01:18:39.420 It reminds me, I recently got pulled over.

01:18:41.000 And since I quit drinking and doing drugs for now, it almost made me feel cool to get pulled over.

01:18:50.120 It was like 1.30 in the morning, the cops stopped me.

01:18:52.120 That's right.

01:18:52.700 She walked.

01:18:53.240 You're actually innocent.

01:18:54.520 Yeah.

01:18:54.820 Well, she walked up.

01:18:56.220 And also, I was like, I was breaking the law a little bit.

01:18:58.540 Like before, I always felt like I was breaking the law.

01:19:00.860 But now I'm like, oh, cool.

01:19:02.060 It's pretty cool.

01:19:02.580 You pulled me over.

01:19:03.420 And, you know, thanks, you know, kind of give me a little bit of street credit.

01:19:07.480 And then.

01:19:08.020 Can we do a selfie?

01:19:08.940 Yeah.

01:19:09.220 Yeah.

01:19:09.440 Almost.

01:19:09.720 But then I said, when she came back, she'd ripped me this ticket.

01:19:13.400 And I think it was a woman, you know, it was kind of one of those kind of, you know, wild cops, you know.

01:19:17.840 But, and I said, how did you know I wasn't drunk?

01:19:21.040 You know, I said, I just haven't drank for a few years.

01:19:22.780 I said, how did you know?

01:19:23.640 I'm just curious.

01:19:24.920 She goes, have you ever been around somebody that's drunk?

01:19:28.440 I said, yeah.

01:19:29.260 She goes, that's what it's like.

01:19:31.520 We know.

01:19:32.140 It's like, you know, most of the time you can tell.

01:19:35.220 She's like, it's not that big of a crazy mystery, you know.

01:19:39.360 And that put it in perspective for me.

01:19:41.120 I was like, oh, wow.

01:19:42.060 This whole time as when I've been drinking and driving, I was like, oh, I'm playing this big secretive game.

01:19:46.280 But really, it's so obvious.

01:19:49.560 And it's not exactly what you're saying.

01:19:52.020 But I can understand as a young man where you're like, oh, I got some growing up to do.

01:19:57.160 Because there's some real men out here.

01:19:59.480 Well, it is.

01:20:00.200 Like, you think, I mean, that's sort of the essence of being young and maybe being drunk is thinking you're getting away with shit that the people around you, they're just being nice to you.

01:20:10.700 You know, they're just not calling you on your bullshit.

01:20:13.660 But everyone knows it.

01:20:14.800 Oh, that's so the essence of being young.

01:20:17.020 Yeah.

01:20:17.580 That's so the essence of it.

01:20:19.000 You think you're pulling it.

01:20:20.440 Yeah, but you're just seeming like an idiot in front of people that already know.

01:20:24.020 I'm talking about being innocent and how exciting that can be sometimes.

01:20:30.040 I just did this road trip to New Orleans and back in the van all across Texas.

01:20:36.400 And it occurred to me driving across Texas is like, I don't have any weed in this car.

01:20:42.180 Like, this might be the first time in my life that I've ever driven across Texas with like, they could pull me over.

01:20:49.180 They could search the car.

01:20:50.960 They wouldn't find anything.

01:20:51.960 It's amazing.

01:20:54.660 It almost felt like a wasted opportunity, you know?

01:20:57.640 Yeah.

01:20:58.140 But at the same time, you were almost so much more advanced than you probably had been 20 years ago when you would have had all the drugs or whatever.

01:21:04.620 Yeah, I guess.

01:21:05.660 Maybe.

01:21:05.980 I don't know.

01:21:06.220 But I mean, that 20-year-old me is, or 30-year-old me is like a little disappointed.

01:21:10.840 Yeah.

01:21:11.420 I went through Heathrow recently.

01:21:14.420 That's fair.

01:21:15.740 That's fair.

01:21:16.260 Heathrow Airport.

01:21:17.140 That's a mulligan on that one.

01:21:18.260 And, man, it was a weird thing.

01:21:24.640 They put my bag through this thing, and then they're like, okay, you've got to wait over there.

01:21:29.480 And then I saw them talking, and then they took it, and they put it through another one, a line, a security line that was closed down.

01:21:35.220 They put it through that machine, and then they came back and talked some more, and then they did something else.

01:21:39.080 And this guy comes over to me, and he's like, you and I have to have a conversation.

01:21:43.420 I'm like, yeah.

01:21:45.080 He's like, what are your hobbies?

01:21:48.680 I'm like, hobbies?

01:21:49.800 And that's a trick question because you could have a ton of them.

01:21:53.280 Yeah.

01:21:54.000 You know, making wine.

01:21:56.000 Well, see, the thing is, I'm like, I was like you when you got pulled over.

01:22:00.240 I'm like, I know there are no drugs in that bag.

01:22:03.060 Yeah.

01:22:03.300 I know, like, there's absolutely nothing that is going to cause a problem here.

01:22:09.240 And even if, like, there's some misunderstanding, you Google me, I'm like a semi-famous author with a PhD.

01:22:16.320 Like, I'm not a terrorist.

01:22:17.840 Right.

01:22:18.400 So whatever it is you suspect is not real.

01:22:21.520 So I felt really relaxed, you know?

01:22:23.700 And this is just like, oh, this is going to be an experience.

01:22:25.980 And so he's like, hobbies.

01:22:27.700 I was like, I don't know.

01:22:28.320 I don't really have any hobbies.

01:22:29.400 He's like, well, what do you do, you know, when you're not – what do you do for a living?

01:22:33.400 I was like, yeah, I write.

01:22:34.340 I'm a psychologist.

01:22:35.740 He's like, what do you do when you're not working?

01:22:37.260 I was like, dude, like, I'm 56 years old.

01:22:39.100 I jerk off, I go to bed.

01:22:40.880 I literally said that to him.

01:22:42.860 And he didn't laugh.

01:22:43.760 Maybe have half a muffin.

01:22:45.680 Exactly.

01:22:46.400 A muffin top.

01:22:47.520 Just the top because I like it crispy.

01:22:50.420 But he – so he's not laughing.

01:22:54.740 And then he's like, do you work with animals?

01:22:59.720 I was like, no.

01:23:01.020 Do you garden?

01:23:01.660 I'm like, no, I don't fucking garden.

01:23:03.660 I used to grow weed, you know, 10 years ago.

01:23:06.640 Who is this guy, huh?

01:23:08.200 Yeah.

01:23:08.360 He's very curious.

01:23:09.380 Well, he's the security dude.

01:23:11.380 Right.

01:23:11.640 And then he says, well, we're going to have to call the police because you didn't give me what I need.

01:23:19.820 I was like, what are you talking about?

01:23:21.380 He's like, well, we found nitrates on your bag.

01:23:24.980 And they're used for explosives.

01:23:27.580 And sometimes they're in fertilizer.

01:23:29.080 But you don't garden.

01:23:30.120 You don't work with animals.

01:23:31.420 So we got to call the cops.

01:23:32.840 I'm like, yeah, call the cops, dude.

01:23:34.300 But, you know, you're wrong.

01:23:36.240 Yeah.

01:23:36.420 He says, the machine's never wrong.

01:23:37.980 I was like, wrong this time, dude.

01:23:40.440 So five minutes later, I'm surrounded by nine, like, cops in body armor and fucking helmets.

01:23:46.160 And you're out in front of everybody at the airport?

01:23:47.600 Yeah.

01:23:47.980 And he throwed.

01:23:48.620 Probably embarrassing, too.

01:23:50.300 Surrounded.

01:23:51.000 And you're American?

01:23:51.420 No, I felt like fucking Jason Bourne, dude.

01:23:54.060 I wanted to start throwing kicks and, like, run for it.

01:23:57.800 Dude, you should have just done a kick into the air just to kind of show off a little bit.

01:24:02.000 A little Bruce Lee shit going on there.

01:24:05.520 Yeah, it was crazy.

01:24:07.060 And then they did the whole thing where, like, they're talking.

01:24:11.100 They're over there murmuring.

01:24:12.260 And the dudes are watching me.

01:24:13.560 And then, like, one dude's up in my face, like, you know, what fight were you on?

01:24:18.520 And where were you from?

01:24:19.240 And what are you doing?

01:24:20.480 Like, being a dick.

01:24:21.760 And then he goes away.

01:24:23.300 And then this other guy stands there.

01:24:24.540 And he's like, yeah, don't worry.

01:24:25.540 He gets a little intense sometimes.

01:24:27.200 Oh, yeah, the nice guy.

01:24:28.140 Good cop, bad cop.

01:24:28.980 Exactly.

01:24:29.300 And I said, like, oh, you're the good cop.

01:24:31.060 He's like, yeah, okay, you got me.

01:24:33.260 I was like, yeah.

01:24:33.980 At least you're not American cops because I'd be, like, bruised and bad at it by now.

01:24:37.440 Oh, they'll paint you black and shoot you, too, some of them.

01:24:39.820 Exactly.

01:24:40.300 Some of them won't.

01:24:41.520 Exactly.

01:24:43.120 Yeah, man, it's alarming, dude.

01:24:44.620 And plus, TSA, airport security is also fucking baffling sometimes.

01:24:48.200 Like, what are we even doing, dude?

01:24:49.780 It's not real.

01:24:50.680 It's usually, like, there's one black dude trying to fuck all the other chicks at work there.

01:24:54.080 You know, there's, like, kind of, like, somebody who's, like, a man and a woman and isn't telling

01:24:58.580 anybody, you know, because they want to keep it a secret to themselves.

01:25:02.340 There's one little gay black guy who told me he had a small dick one time when I went

01:25:05.780 through there.

01:25:06.560 Really?

01:25:06.800 And you can't say anything because if the second you speak up, you're-

01:25:10.960 When you got patted down?

01:25:11.820 You're going to jail.

01:25:12.640 Yeah.

01:25:13.000 He goes, oh, it seemed like a small dick.

01:25:15.420 And I was like, what?

01:25:16.880 Did you say that?

01:25:17.640 And then he acted like he didn't say it.

01:25:19.500 And I know I heard it because I've never heard that in my life.

01:25:22.280 You know, I've heard, oh, your dick seems decent, you know?

01:25:25.440 But I've never heard you, oh, you got to seem like a small dick, you know?

01:25:30.420 I think that might have been a come on.

01:25:32.600 Well, I mean, yeah, it could have been.

01:25:33.940 But it's like, you can't say anything to those people.

01:25:36.000 And half of them, you know, quit school where you used to play basketball with.

01:25:39.440 And you're like, what the fuck?

01:25:40.800 Yeah, they're making nine bucks an hour.

01:25:42.520 And they're furious.

01:25:43.200 Some of them want the world to end, you know?

01:25:45.760 One guy had this anarchist patch on one time on his thing.

01:25:48.500 I'm like, I know that sign.

01:25:49.960 It was like this.

01:25:51.360 So who knows?

01:25:52.080 What the fuck?

01:25:52.700 What airports are you going through, man?

01:25:54.360 Just local.

01:25:55.120 I mean, just, you know, sometimes out of Long Beach.

01:25:58.540 So that could be it.

01:26:00.260 Long Beach.

01:26:01.640 You grew up in Louisiana?

01:26:03.060 Yeah, I grew up in Louisiana.

01:26:04.140 So I was stoked to hear that you went down to New Orleans, man.

01:26:06.980 First time I've ever been there in my life.

01:26:09.100 And they would love you there, I feel like.

01:26:11.020 You would fit in so well.

01:26:12.680 I liked it.

01:26:14.120 I like New Orleans.

01:26:14.860 But you know what?

01:26:15.380 I actually liked the sort of surrounding area more than New Orleans.

01:26:19.660 Yeah.

01:26:20.140 We stopped.

01:26:20.880 I forget.

01:26:21.620 There's this long bridge.

01:26:24.040 It's like 20-mile-long bridge that just sort of like goes right up above the swamp.

01:26:28.520 Yeah, Achafalaya Basin maybe?

01:26:30.180 Yeah.

01:26:30.400 Or it could be like Pontchartrain, one or the other?

01:26:32.400 Achafalaya.

01:26:32.840 Achafalaya Basin, yeah.

01:26:33.920 And we stopped and somebody told us about some restaurant and we drove to this restaurant

01:26:42.480 and we got in there and just as the Zydeco band was warming up and people are dancing,

01:26:49.780 it was great.

01:26:51.200 It was the middle of fucking nowhere.

01:26:52.980 Yeah.

01:26:53.360 And they were the nicest people and the owner comes over.

01:26:56.480 He's like, I saw you got a van out there.

01:26:58.360 Where are you guys camping?

01:26:59.300 And I said, we haven't decided.

01:27:00.880 He said, well, you're welcome to stay here.

01:27:02.240 We got showers in the back, you know, hook you up and, you know, like just super nice

01:27:07.680 people.

01:27:08.700 Man, it was great.

01:27:10.200 Yeah.

01:27:10.540 Yeah, it's crazy.

01:27:11.260 It's so much, like so many times we've brand a lot of America as like, you know, racist

01:27:16.040 and angry and all this stuff.

01:27:17.940 And I don't find a lot of that.

01:27:19.780 I mean, I find you can find some of that if you're looking for it.

01:27:22.000 If you're reading articles, you can find a lot of that.

01:27:24.180 But I find a lot of times when you get out and you spend time with people that, you

01:27:29.020 know, yeah, they're dealing with some things a lot of times.

01:27:31.200 And I think we have some overall issues in America that are, you know, historical, but

01:27:35.400 I find that people are usually fun.

01:27:37.200 And I don't mean to go broad on that, but Louisiana is a fun place, man.

01:27:40.700 And the biggest thing they have there is just, you know, any type of tourist.

01:27:45.080 People want to, they want to show you Louisiana.

01:27:47.980 There's this thing they want you to love it.

01:27:50.520 Yeah.

01:27:51.420 There's a lot to love.

01:27:52.420 I mean, that's an interesting like ecosystem too.

01:27:55.540 Yeah.

01:27:56.740 Yeah.

01:27:57.120 Yeah.

01:27:57.380 Yeah.

01:27:57.580 It is.

01:27:57.960 I mean, you know.

01:27:58.740 We didn't go out on any boats or anything.

01:28:01.140 Next time I'm down there, I'd like to do that and go on the swamps and check it out.

01:28:05.340 Dude, I'd love to go down there when you get down there sometime, man, just to see if you

01:28:08.640 could, you know, introduce you to some other riders and just hear you guys chat and think.

01:28:12.420 Yeah.

01:28:12.680 Go down with Simon.

01:28:13.540 Do a road trip.

01:28:14.260 It'd be cool, man.

01:28:15.020 It'd be really cool.

01:28:16.060 We have two questions that have come in.

01:28:18.200 Nick, did you have any questions?

01:28:20.660 You don't have to have any either.

01:28:22.020 I did notice you don't wear a wedding ring and I was just wondering if that was like,

01:28:26.800 I don't know, because a lot of times I've heard a wedding ring attracts other women.

01:28:30.840 So maybe if you're in an open relationship, you wear it.

01:28:33.200 It's best of both worlds, but.

01:28:35.080 I have a cock ring.

01:28:36.440 Yeah.

01:28:37.940 Big diamond on it.

01:28:39.260 It's really, get those kind of sharp though.

01:28:42.340 That explains it.

01:28:43.280 No, I, yeah, no, I don't, I don't do jewelry.

01:28:47.980 Yeah.

01:28:48.260 Yeah.

01:28:48.960 Right on.

01:28:50.920 Yeah.

01:28:51.280 I don't have one either, but that's because nobody, I mean, somebody wants me probably,

01:28:55.080 but I just don't know.

01:28:56.860 I don't know if it's an old idea, but I don't know if I, no one's ever offered me one either.

01:29:00.960 And I have the worst fingers.

01:29:02.300 You look at that.

01:29:03.120 Yeah.

01:29:04.000 Yeah.

01:29:04.320 I broke this one a couple of years ago.

01:29:06.220 I'm not sure.

01:29:07.820 Yeah.

01:29:08.000 Even, I mean, if it would just rattle on there, my finger's so skinny, it would just kind

01:29:11.740 of rattle against the bone.

01:29:13.140 Um, we have two questions from callers that came in and one is just, uh, you want to go

01:29:18.320 ahead with one, Nick?

01:29:19.280 Yeah.

01:29:19.540 Here's the first one.

01:29:20.460 Hey, you, uh, you can call me Amy.

01:29:23.640 I'm from Saudi Arabia.

01:29:26.220 Uh, I have been dealing with depression and anxiety too, for maybe seven, eight months,

01:29:33.260 probably more.

01:29:35.480 I don't know, but I can't visit or see a therapist here because you know, uh, they're very expensive

01:29:43.560 and from what I've heard, they are very bad, but honestly, I don't know why I'm making this

01:29:51.120 fault, but maybe you can give me an advice or something that will make this more bearable

01:29:58.600 because I, I had suicidal thoughts for, for, for quite a while now and I still question

01:30:08.640 why, why would someone keep on going when life is pretty shit and, you know, it can be

01:30:16.220 very bad here.

01:30:17.680 Uh, so what do you, like we get calls like this sometimes, you know, to our hotline and

01:30:20.760 we get tons of, all types of calls and, and I just thought I would, what would you say

01:30:26.480 to somebody like that, that calls, you know, and just, uh, I'm not, first thing I'd say

01:30:34.560 is I'm not qualified.

01:30:36.280 I'm not a clinical psychologist.

01:30:38.100 Right.

01:30:38.400 Um, yeah.

01:30:39.640 And I'm not trying to put any onus on you.

01:30:41.200 I know that, you know, um, this isn't, you know, licensed advice or anything.

01:30:45.600 Right.

01:30:46.000 Right.

01:30:47.820 Yeah.

01:30:48.780 It's, it's very hard because, um, you know, she said she can't afford a therapist and

01:30:56.460 maybe therapists.

01:30:57.680 I don't know anything about therapy in Saudi Arabia.

01:31:01.380 So I can't, I, you know, I don't know anything about the situation, but if she's got suicidal

01:31:07.880 thoughts, um, and extreme anxiety and depression, it's important to talk to somebody.

01:31:15.460 It's important not to try to go through that alone, I think.

01:31:19.740 Yeah.

01:31:20.060 Um, and if she could find a good therapist, what they would be trying to help her do is

01:31:28.680 to, uh, first to find the source of these feelings, right.

01:31:34.360 And whether it's in her family dynamics or, um, you know, it can be coming from lots of

01:31:40.920 different places.

01:31:41.580 And then to, once it's identified, to try to reframe it in a way that, um, she feels

01:31:49.300 more of a sense of control.

01:31:51.360 So, um, I like that.

01:31:56.100 So she's not as like a victim of it as much as she's a part of it.

01:31:59.440 Yeah.

01:32:01.300 Yeah.

01:32:01.880 I mean, for example, I have a friend in Spain who did his PhD research on psychotherapy,

01:32:09.520 um, with assisted with MDMA, uh, which is also known as ecstasy or Molly or whatever.

01:32:16.240 It's very useful in, in psychotherapy because it reduces the, um, uh, anxiety and the fear

01:32:25.340 of the person who takes it.

01:32:27.640 So once you've established a rapport with a therapist and then you can, um, take some MDMA

01:32:34.520 and have therapy, it enables the person to talk about a traumatic experience.

01:32:39.600 So he specializes in working with women who've suffered from sexual trauma and they haven't

01:32:46.860 responded to any other type of therapy.

01:32:49.140 Wow.

01:32:49.600 And his success rates are incredible.

01:32:52.020 Oh, that's dynamite.

01:32:52.800 Yeah.

01:32:53.160 And what he's doing with them is, is see the thing about PTSD is that people are afraid to,

01:32:59.520 um, face the experience, the memory.

01:33:03.460 So it pops up, it comes up in dreams, it manifests physiologically and digestive issues or,

01:33:09.320 or skin problems or back pain or lots of different ways.

01:33:13.320 Um, but like so many other things in life, the only way to get past it is to go through

01:33:20.340 it.

01:33:20.640 You're never going to run away from it.

01:33:22.280 You're never going to get away.

01:33:23.340 So you have to turn and face it, but that's really hard because it's become this giant

01:33:27.920 monster chasing you, you know?

01:33:31.280 And, um, MDMA can help people turn.

01:33:34.020 And so they turn and they re-experience this.

01:33:37.060 They, they get back into what happened, whether it was the rape or the, the war trauma or whatever

01:33:43.960 it was.

01:33:44.940 And they re, they're able to reframe the experience now because they're re-experiencing it, but

01:33:52.980 with a sense of control.

01:33:54.620 And so from that point on in their lives, they remember it differently.

01:33:59.500 And it lets some of the, the air out of the balloon, you know, it, it drains some of the

01:34:05.060 power out of the experience.

01:34:07.880 So, um, you know, getting to this person, we don't know what is the source of these

01:34:13.960 feelings, but it's important not to go through this alone.

01:34:16.500 So if she can't afford a therapist or can't find a therapist, I hope she'll at least talk

01:34:22.960 about this stuff in depth with a good friend.

01:34:25.940 Yeah.

01:34:26.480 Yeah.

01:34:26.880 Yeah.

01:34:27.180 I think that's a good start, especially like since, you know, it's far away if I'm sure

01:34:30.960 they're probably friends or someone who can help you find somebody locally.

01:34:34.400 Um, yeah, if we find a resource or something that we see, if we can find a general like

01:34:38.800 Saudi Arabia or Middle Eastern resource, then we'll put a couple of links up.

01:34:42.860 You know, you remind me these days, a lot of people are doing therapy online.

01:34:47.000 Um, so maybe she's not limited to Saudi Arabia.

01:34:53.280 That's a good point.

01:34:54.040 If she can call us and someone online, and if she can listen to the pod, then we'll put

01:34:57.140 a link up as well.

01:34:58.000 Young lady, uh, to see if there's some online opportunities.

01:35:01.520 Um, we'll see what we can find.

01:35:02.960 We're not going to promise, but we'll try.

01:35:04.500 Yeah.

01:35:04.720 Um, we had one more call that came in that we thought maybe you could be helpful with.

01:35:07.760 And I know that was general.

01:35:08.600 I was just thinking, you know, maybe with depression and stuff, but I certainly appreciate you.

01:35:12.620 Yeah, my wife's a psychiatrist and she's actually thinking about, the reason I know this thing

01:35:19.000 about online is she's thinking about starting to do therapy online because, you know, we

01:35:23.860 live all different places around the world.

01:35:26.140 Yeah.

01:35:26.160 Well, let us know.

01:35:26.720 We'd love to try and send her some clientele if we, you know, who knows?

01:35:31.240 Yeah.

01:35:31.460 Yeah.

01:35:32.100 It's an interesting world.

01:35:34.800 Um, we hit him with the off-speed stuff first.

01:35:36.980 This one's definitely more in your wheelhouse.

01:35:38.360 Oh, okay.

01:35:38.940 I'm from California.

01:35:40.540 I'm a 27-year-old.

01:35:41.980 I've been struggling with, you know, the topic of monogamy, you know, so we're pretty

01:35:47.720 much married.

01:35:49.860 We have a four-year-old daughter together, but we don't have sex very much or ever.

01:35:56.200 It's that.

01:35:57.440 And, you know, I've been, you know, hitting the gym, you know, I've been, you know, getting

01:36:02.080 really fit.

01:36:03.040 Flex.

01:36:03.580 My confidence is skyrocketing.

01:36:05.260 There's many women out there that I'm, uh, you know, that I see trying to talk to me

01:36:11.280 and stuff and I don't know what to do if I should just, you know, do my, do my thing,

01:36:19.280 break things off.

01:36:20.300 I don't know.

01:36:21.560 The relationship's kind of broken and I feel like, uh, you know, we're not really in this

01:36:31.880 relationship together.

01:36:32.820 We're kind of just there for the kid.

01:36:34.860 And I even brought up the, uh, topic of, uh, uh, you know, open relationship and part of

01:36:44.540 me was joking.

01:36:45.300 Part of me wasn't.

01:36:46.180 And she gave me the ultimatum of, okay, well, if you want to do that, then does that mean

01:36:52.460 I get to sleep with other, other dudes?

01:36:57.920 And that's just his conundrum.

01:37:01.720 Well, and yeah, we're not asking anything as specifically to something we would listen

01:37:05.000 to that together, but yeah, no, I mean, I, I feel like he got to the moment of truth there

01:37:09.440 and he stopped.

01:37:10.420 Like, does it mean she gets to sleep with other dudes?

01:37:12.800 Cause it sounds to me like she's open to the idea.

01:37:15.460 Right.

01:37:16.760 So what's the problem?

01:37:18.780 So at that point he needs to be, if he believes that for himself, then he should be able to

01:37:22.760 believe that for her as well.

01:37:24.060 Sure.

01:37:24.400 Out of respect even.

01:37:25.860 Right.

01:37:26.220 And then be able to voice that.

01:37:28.380 Right.

01:37:28.720 And that's probably going to be very scary to do because you're going to have to be vulnerable

01:37:31.900 there.

01:37:32.980 Right.

01:37:33.460 But again, look at what, look at this essence of the vulnerability.

01:37:38.240 What, what are you afraid of?

01:37:39.500 You're going to lose the relationship.

01:37:40.780 Sounds to me like you're pretty much ready to walk away from it anyway.

01:37:43.920 Anyway, so what, what's he really have to lose?

01:37:48.340 Right.

01:37:48.880 Right.

01:37:49.620 That's a great point.

01:37:50.720 You know, it's like, yeah, it might feel better to walk away or to cheat because then your

01:37:59.160 ego is protected.

01:38:00.620 Yeah.

01:38:00.840 You're in control of it.

01:38:01.860 Yeah.

01:38:02.420 But you're, you're being, you're lying, you know, and you're fucking up your daughter's

01:38:07.820 life and you're, you know, so.

01:38:10.220 And you're going to be living those lies then.

01:38:11.900 Then you're going to be carrying around liars and you're going to feel like a liar.

01:38:14.620 Yeah.

01:38:14.860 And that's not going to make you feel good.

01:38:16.900 And then you got this little girl growing up with all this anger and distrust and, you

01:38:22.040 know, how, how's she going to relate to men in the future?

01:38:25.080 You know, listening to her mom cry and, you know, calling you a liar.

01:38:30.420 I mean, I think the thing is we, we forgive ourselves for lying because we think we're

01:38:37.340 avoiding hurting people.

01:38:39.120 But in the end we hurt them worse.

01:38:41.720 And we hurt ourselves because you know, you, when you're living a lie, you know, when you're

01:38:46.800 not real and being real is always better.

01:38:49.840 I mean, unless you're a fucking pedophile or something, you know, and even then being

01:38:54.540 honest with yourself about what it is you want to do will help you not do it.

01:38:59.960 Right.

01:39:00.200 You know?

01:39:01.000 Wow, man.

01:39:01.620 I don't think some of the, that's some of the truest stuff I've ever heard, man, that we

01:39:04.920 think we, when we lie that we're protecting people or that, but we're actually going to

01:39:09.720 end up hurting them more.

01:39:10.940 Yeah.

01:39:11.360 You know?

01:39:12.400 Yeah.

01:39:13.060 So in that, in that case, I would say, you know, he got to the moment where she, he raised

01:39:18.120 it with her and she was like, okay, is this a two-way street?

01:39:20.920 And then he stopped.

01:39:22.140 Like, if it is a two-way street, then you guys could end up having a great time.

01:39:28.820 That's true, man.

01:39:29.520 It could be a four-way street, put up a four-way stop sign, you know?

01:39:32.580 It could become an intersection.

01:39:34.220 Yeah.

01:39:34.320 But yeah, I think just being able to be brave in moments of communication is just, you know,

01:39:39.640 it's something that, I mean, I think about all the time that I'm learning about in my

01:39:43.700 own life and it's just so great having you here today to help us think about some of

01:39:47.720 this stuff, man, and talk about it.

01:39:50.080 Thanks.

01:39:50.840 Yeah.

01:39:51.020 Yeah, it's super cool, man.

01:39:52.360 It's super, super cool to have somebody that's as able to communicate on a, on a regular man's

01:39:58.420 level.

01:39:59.200 You know, you don't communicate to me like you're better than me, you know?

01:40:03.360 We're probably worse than you if we really did an analysis.

01:40:07.340 No, but I appreciate it, man.

01:40:08.700 It makes me feel, it doesn't, because sometimes I think a lot of guys feel afraid to, you

01:40:16.160 know, not be smart.

01:40:17.680 They're afraid to talk to somebody that's smarter than them because that person is just going

01:40:21.720 to push that they're smart and not that they're also human.

01:40:25.320 And I think that that makes people feel uncomfortable, you know?

01:40:29.200 Yeah.

01:40:30.000 But you don't do that.

01:40:31.160 Or to me, you don't, man.

01:40:32.760 No, well, I'm not that smart.

01:40:34.260 That's the thing.

01:40:36.380 Anyway, I don't know what I'm trying to say.

01:40:37.540 I'm just trying to say thank you.

01:40:38.700 Oh, thank you, man.

01:40:39.840 That's what I'm trying to say.

01:40:40.780 That's cool.

01:40:42.320 Yeah.

01:40:42.780 And it's, it's also, I mean, to, to blow some smoke your way, I, I, one of the best

01:40:48.960 things that's happened in my life since Sexadon came out is somehow I've gotten to hang out

01:40:54.700 with comedians a lot and, you know, it just sort of feels like a natural community and

01:40:59.640 I'm sort of like an honorary member somehow.

01:41:04.800 Yeah.

01:41:04.980 I fucking love it.

01:41:06.200 I love it because it's so, it's, it's like, I was thinking on the drive over here, laughing

01:41:11.320 is like a brain orgasm.

01:41:13.780 It, it just happens, you know?

01:41:15.880 It's a, it's a physiological reaction you have to something.

01:41:19.620 Yeah.

01:41:19.720 It is a fascinating moment.

01:41:21.200 Yeah.

01:41:21.540 It's magical.

01:41:22.540 I mean, I know you said fuck magic, but I think it's real magic.

01:41:25.520 It's not a trick, you know?

01:41:26.920 Um, and what I love about hanging out with you guys is, uh, you're so fucking honest.

01:41:34.420 And I think that's something I didn't realize when I watched comics from a distance on TV

01:41:40.260 or whatever.

01:41:40.840 It's like, okay, they're performers and it's an act.

01:41:44.040 But now that I've gotten to know, uh, a lot of, of comedians, I realized that the comedy

01:41:52.060 comes out of, uh, courage of being honest with yourself.

01:41:57.100 And it's really, it's fucking, it's an honor for me to hang out with people like you and

01:42:01.260 Simon and Joe and Brian Callen.

01:42:03.800 And like, you're, you're all, you all have that in common.

01:42:06.380 You're all like really sincere, thoughtful people.

01:42:10.100 Yeah.

01:42:10.720 It's great.

01:42:11.300 Thanks, man.

01:42:12.080 Yeah.

01:42:12.300 I think that's a goal.

01:42:13.200 I think that's, I don't know if it's a goal, but it's something that I do want to be, you

01:42:16.400 know?

01:42:16.600 Cause I think, you know, when you, when I look back on some of my life, I don't always

01:42:22.420 know if I was that way.

01:42:23.580 Not cause I didn't want to be, because I was, had created this other, you know, like

01:42:27.920 you said, this protective world where, um, I don't know who I was really.

01:42:32.840 But if you get stuck in that world, you run out of material.

01:42:36.360 Yes.

01:42:36.820 A hundred percent.

01:42:37.680 Cause I mean, the material is in your fears.

01:42:40.200 That's what's funny.

01:42:41.120 Only in the last two years, my comedy and my whole life has changed so much.

01:42:44.880 I think, um, yeah.

01:42:47.560 And I think some of it is just, uh, because I'm just trying to learn more about who I

01:42:52.560 am and just trying to have feelings.

01:42:54.140 Yeah.

01:42:54.760 Um, but it's been fascinating, man.

01:42:56.800 You know, I got into sex at dawn and I'll recommend this book to anybody like, and you

01:43:00.740 know, and I don't want anybody to think that we're saying there that I'm saying anyway,

01:43:03.960 that if you're in a healthy, successful marriage or anything like that, that you need to run

01:43:07.520 around on your spouse or, or anything like that.

01:43:09.960 If you're, if you feel comfortable and you guys are having a good time, as far as I'm

01:43:13.400 concerned, go and live your joy, you know, and more power to you.

01:43:17.340 And I, I think that there's, you know, there's, everybody finds whatever works for them.

01:43:23.160 But if you're out there and you're uncomfortable, then maybe some of this conversation helped

01:43:27.620 with some of that or made you think about some things.

01:43:30.060 Um, this book sex at dawn, when I first started reading it, I listened, I will listen to it

01:43:34.660 a lot.

01:43:35.680 Um, but I didn't want to hear it at first.

01:43:38.160 I shut it off after the beginning because some of it to me felt kind of anti-Christian

01:43:43.160 a little bit, right?

01:43:44.220 And I'm not judging you or anything, but this was the experience that I had.

01:43:47.940 But then I thought to myself, well, dude, you're not gonna, you know, you can't be an

01:43:53.960 open person if you don't listen to stuff.

01:43:56.200 And if you don't, and then I listened to it and I loved it.

01:43:59.120 And I didn't think like it was anti-Christian.

01:44:01.120 I thought it was, it made me just realize that there's a lot of things in our path, in our

01:44:07.600 past and in our lives and in our society and in our evolution that have formed some of

01:44:13.040 the ways that we live now that aren't even choices that I've made, but they're just kind

01:44:16.620 of templates that I've kind of fallen into or, or that the river of my existences has

01:44:22.000 passed through these certain banks that have always been there.

01:44:24.820 And it made me just start to think about things more and I don't feel any different at the

01:44:30.220 end, but I do feel like I have just more questions and I'm more able to listen to new things.

01:44:36.560 And it, this was a fascinating read for me, man.

01:44:39.180 It was really, really cool, dude.

01:44:40.600 It, it opened me up in more ways than I thought.

01:44:44.480 There's a lot of stuff about masturbation in there.

01:44:46.760 Yeah.

01:44:47.080 Well, it's a, look, that's the dark arts, dude.

01:44:49.700 I'm trying to stay off of it.

01:44:51.480 Oh, we have the gift for you too, man.

01:44:53.000 One of these Ridge wallets.

01:44:54.660 So these things are dope, dude.

01:44:55.940 I didn't like mine at first, but I love it.

01:44:58.720 And I didn't mean to knock your book at all.

01:45:00.000 Does it come with money?

01:45:01.260 There's no money in there?

01:45:02.320 How kind of wallet is this, man?

01:45:04.820 But they're really, really cool, man.

01:45:06.700 What is it?

01:45:07.720 It's just a new type of wallet.

01:45:09.420 So it's like you, so it's just this basically, right?

01:45:13.980 Right.

01:45:14.240 But you don't have to keep it in your back pocket anymore and you put it in your front

01:45:17.300 pocket.

01:45:17.780 Right.

01:45:18.220 And at first I didn't like it, but three days into it and I am hooked now.

01:45:21.880 Nice.

01:45:22.200 But we have a couple you can choose from one that you like and, and yeah.

01:45:26.520 A lot of different colors.

01:45:27.600 Yeah.

01:45:27.840 Some different assortments.

01:45:28.620 You'll have to take one with you.

01:45:29.440 Oh, thank you.

01:45:30.280 What about the new project that you're working on that you mentioned?

01:45:32.500 What's that going to be?

01:45:33.520 That's called Civilized to Death.

01:45:35.120 Mm-hmm.

01:45:36.500 And it's sort of an expansion of some of the things that we talked about in Insects at

01:45:41.840 Dawn.

01:45:42.140 And it's a look at how the animal that we evolved to be is sort of out of place in the

01:45:50.820 modern world.

01:45:52.240 And it gets into some of the stuff I said about distrusting voices that tell you to question

01:45:58.920 your appetites, you know, to, to not listen to your, your body.

01:46:03.380 Because I, I think the, basically the story we've been told is that human beings are these

01:46:10.780 horrible monsters and we need society culture to keep us in check.

01:46:15.180 So we don't kill each other and, you know, rape and pillage.

01:46:18.240 And it's Thomas Hobbes who said that, um, before the state human life was solitary, poor,

01:46:24.980 nasty, brutish, and short, right?

01:46:27.460 That's propaganda.

01:46:29.040 It's wrong.

01:46:29.880 There's no scientific basis for any of that.

01:46:32.000 So the book's in a re-examination of what kind of animal is a human being, what kind

01:46:38.000 of species are we?

01:46:39.280 Yeah.

01:46:39.700 And, um, to what extent is civilization a benefit or a detriment to our, our existence?

01:46:48.060 Mm-hmm.

01:46:49.500 Yeah.

01:46:50.000 It's interesting.

01:46:50.500 Cause even when I was listening to Sex at Dawn, I was like, wow, some of the, you know,

01:46:55.420 some of the ways from the past we couldn't put onto now, they wouldn't fit, you know, like

01:47:00.260 if we wanted to live, you know, a lot would have to change if we wanted to live more to

01:47:06.560 possibly what our nature is.

01:47:09.120 Well, yes and no.

01:47:10.480 I mean, the way I look at it is we live in an artificial world.

01:47:15.640 There's no way around that with seven and a half billion people on the planet.

01:47:19.840 There's no way we're all going to just be hunter gatherers or something.

01:47:23.100 That's not going to happen.

01:47:23.840 So we live in a zoo, right?

01:47:26.260 But do you want to live in the San Diego zoo or the Calcutta zoo?

01:47:30.500 Yeah.

01:47:30.880 Right?

01:47:31.260 Like we can design an artificial environment.

01:47:33.880 And Calcutta's in India.

01:47:34.880 Some of our listeners wouldn't know that.

01:47:36.140 Yeah.

01:47:36.440 Is it?

01:47:36.820 Yeah.

01:47:37.100 And it's a shitty zoo.

01:47:38.380 Yeah.

01:47:38.680 It's just cages.

01:47:40.300 Yeah.

01:47:40.620 Right?

01:47:41.220 And most of them are unlocked too, I bet.

01:47:42.900 But, you know, you go to the San Diego zoo and they design the enclosures with an understanding

01:47:51.620 of what kind of animal this is.

01:47:53.240 They don't just stick them in a cage and, you know, throw some food in there.

01:47:56.980 So we can design our artificial worlds to replicate the world in which we evolved as a species.

01:48:05.780 So we can design our relationships.

01:48:07.920 For example, one of the things that makes people feel really good, as you were commenting earlier

01:48:14.720 with your AA experience, is helping people.

01:48:18.100 So that's part of our nature.

01:48:20.640 So if you're feeling depressed and disconnected, one of the best things you can do is just go help people.

01:48:26.900 Go volunteer somewhere at a hospital, at a clinic, work with animals, work with kids.

01:48:32.640 Lots of people need help and it'll help you to help them.

01:48:36.780 Yes.

01:48:37.060 So it sounds like, oh, that's Mother Teresa bullshit.

01:48:40.580 It's not.

01:48:41.180 That comes from an understanding of what kind of animal Homo sapiens is, right?

01:48:46.480 That's true.

01:48:47.200 Sleep is really important.

01:48:48.780 You're telling yourself you can get by in four hours of sleep at night, you're full of shit.

01:48:52.880 You can't.

01:48:53.620 You're an animal.

01:48:54.440 You're an animal that needs between seven and nine hours of sleep every night.

01:48:58.320 That's just the way it is.

01:48:59.700 Yeah.

01:49:00.080 Just like you need a certain amount of aerobic exercise to be healthy.

01:49:03.540 You need a certain diet.

01:49:04.860 These things can't be ignored.

01:49:07.900 So understanding what kind of an animal Homo sapiens is, is essential for designing a life that's going to be fulfilling.

01:49:16.420 Yeah.

01:49:16.940 It's fascinating, man.

01:49:18.120 Yeah.

01:49:18.340 I never, I never wanted to know.

01:49:21.180 I think we're at a place in history where a lot of people want to start to know more about, you know, who we are and get the most out of their life.

01:49:29.400 I think we're, I think we've come to the end of the road.

01:49:32.100 Really?

01:49:32.620 Yeah.

01:49:32.920 Wow.

01:49:34.180 I think so.

01:49:35.320 Dude, I'd love to just have you back sometime and talk about just that.

01:49:38.460 Yeah, sure.

01:49:39.380 Because I, yeah, I have a million thoughts on that.

01:49:41.400 I'd love to get into it.

01:49:42.420 But is that okay with you?

01:49:44.180 Sure.

01:49:44.640 If we do it some other time?

01:49:45.680 Anytime.

01:49:47.340 Chris Ryan, thank you so much.

01:49:48.700 We'll share all your links and everything.

01:49:52.460 And I'm just, I'm happy to meet a friend of a friend, man.

01:49:55.880 Yeah, me too.

01:49:56.600 Yeah.

01:49:56.820 Thank you.

01:49:57.740 Thanks, dude.

01:49:58.720 Now I'm just floating on the breeze and I feel I'm falling like these leaves.

01:50:04.420 I must be cornerstone.

01:50:09.600 Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind I found.

01:50:15.160 I can feel it in my bones.

01:50:19.440 But it's gonna take a little time

01:50:24.200 For me to set that parking brake

01:50:28.080 And let myself unwind

01:50:30.840 Shine that light on me

01:50:34.800 I'll sit and tell you my stories

01:50:40.500 Shine on me

01:50:45.500 And I will find a song

01:50:49.720 I will sing it just for you

01:50:53.300 And now I've been moving way too fast

01:51:00.680 On a runaway train

01:51:02.080 With a heavy load of my

01:51:03.800 Hey

01:51:05.100 Ladies and gentlemen, I'm Jonathan Kite

01:51:10.020 And welcome to Kite Club

01:51:11.340 A podcast where I'll be sharing thoughts on things like current events

01:51:14.980 Stand-up stories

01:51:16.200 And seven ways to pleasure your partner

01:51:18.520 The answer may shock you

01:51:20.420 Sometimes I'll interview my friends

01:51:22.440 Sometimes I won't

01:51:23.760 And as always, I'll be joined by the voices in my head

01:51:27.260 You have three new voice messages

01:51:30.140 A lot of people are talking about Kite Club

01:51:33.140 I've been talking about Kite Club for so long

01:51:35.940 Longer than anybody else

01:51:37.520 So great

01:51:38.360 Hi, sweet

01:51:39.960 Here's a deal

01:51:41.400 Anyone who doesn't listen to Kite Club

01:51:43.880 Is a dodgy bloody wanker

01:51:45.900 Jermaine

01:51:46.620 Hi, I'll take a quarter pounder with cheese

01:51:49.900 And a McFlurry

01:51:50.940 Sorry sir, but our ice cream machine is broken

01:51:52.800 Oh, no

01:51:54.640 I think Tom Hanks just butt-dialed me

01:51:57.740 Anyway, first rule of Kite Club is

01:52:00.160 Tell everyone about Kite Club

01:52:01.860 Second rule of Kite Club is

01:52:03.800 Tell everyone about Kite Club

01:52:06.060 Third rule

01:52:06.820 Like and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts

01:52:09.700 Or watch us on YouTube, yeah?

01:52:12.080 And yes, don't worry

01:52:13.120 My Brad Pitt impression will get better

01:52:15.160 Thanks for listening to Kite Club

This Past Weekend with Theo Von - May 31, 2018

Sex at Dawn Author Chris Ryan ｜ This Past Weekend #100

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