This Past Weekend with Theo Von - Tiger King's Bhagavan ＂Doc＂ Antle

00:00:00.540 Today's guest has made over a dozen appearances on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno.

00:00:05.680 He is the founder of the Institute for Greatly Endangered and Rare Species, T-I-G-E-R-S,

00:00:16.700 in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, and is the owner of Myrtle Beach Safari in Myrtle Beach,

00:00:22.620 South Carolina. Today's guest from The Tiger King is Bhagavan Dak Antal.

00:00:30.000 Shine that light on me. I'll sit and tell you my stories.

00:00:41.540 Shine that light on me. I'll sit and tell you my stories.

00:00:51.420 Hey, Doc. Can you hear me?

00:00:54.780 I can. How are you doing?

00:00:56.980 Oh, wonderful. Thank you so much for joining me this afternoon, bro.

00:01:01.400 Glad to be on. Glad we got to put it together.

00:01:04.460 Yeah, yeah. Thank you for your patience.

00:01:06.500 Chatting here with Doc Antal from Myrtle Beach Safari, which probably is it the premier cat visitation spot in the U.S., would you say?

00:01:16.320 In the world, by far. There's no place like this.

00:01:19.560 You know, we just have this fabulous location that people can have such a grand time at that is really a palace for the wildlife in our care.

00:01:29.000 And it looks really higher end. It looks more like the four seasons of Anamelia over there by you, whereas opposed to, you know, you look at, you know, a place like Joe Exotic is running more of like a still a beautiful place, but a little bit more, you know, something you'd see it like maybe like a rural carnival or something like that.

00:01:49.160 Yeah, I mean, you know, it's the opportunity of time and money. For us, this is the going 39 years of doing this.

00:01:56.820 I had the blessing of engaging in the biz and being around, started working so heavily in the 80s and 90s, work in Hollywood and doing stuff.

00:02:06.160 And we made Ace Ventura and Jungle Book and Dr. Doolittle and 500 movie and television projects over around the world.

00:02:12.160 So, and all that led me to a different vision of how to do it and the financial opportunity to create something that could have that five-star appeal.

00:02:21.840 Joe just never had the time, never had the money. And I am in this glorious spot that is one of the hot spots of tourism in the world here in Myrtle Beach.

00:02:31.160 Oh, yeah, beautiful.

00:02:32.320 20 million people come here every year. So, it's so filled with people looking for adventure and opportunity from all over the world.

00:02:39.980 So, the middle of nowhere, Oklahoma is a hard place to do something. There's only three things that matter, right?

00:02:46.900 Location, location, location.

00:02:49.020 Location. Amen, man. You guys have a great location over there.

00:02:52.800 A lot of people, when they watch you in the Tiger King documentary, they see not only a man that's able to really wrangle pets,

00:02:59.560 but also a man that's really able to wrangle females.

00:03:03.820 Females. You know, I think a lot of men were impressed. A lot of men, I'm a man, you know, for now, but I live in Hollywood.

00:03:11.460 You never know what they're going to try to do to me, but a lot of men were just as impressed with your ability to attract females

00:03:18.200 as to attract, you know, this sort of Tarzan atmosphere with the animals.

00:03:22.800 Does the way you relate to women and the way you relate to animals, is there any, is there some similarities there?

00:03:31.500 No, I mean, come on. I'm a single guy. I was married, you know, 25 years ago, but I'm a single guy.

00:03:37.840 I've got girlfriends. They've come and gone over the years.

00:03:41.820 I mean, it can't be unique that I have girlfriends.

00:03:44.260 It's just that they got put on a screen and said this and that.

00:03:48.160 And then they included all of my son's fiance and my grandson's kids and my granddaughters and everybody else.

00:03:56.840 They're like, look at that lineup of all those ladies.

00:03:59.340 Those ladies are my relatives and or the significant others of my staff and my friends and stuff that are here helping me out.

00:04:08.560 I see. So the documentary really, they tacked on a few extra ladies to your tiger tail, I guess.

00:04:16.780 Yeah, I mean, the count was just like going up like bodies hit the floor.

00:04:20.020 They're like, oh, my God, there's seven, nine, eleven.

00:04:23.380 There's something there. It's crazy land.

00:04:26.620 You know, that's not how it goes by any means.

00:04:29.380 You know, and the tales of woe that somebody wants to say or just the judgmental insanity of people.

00:04:37.500 Yeah. Oh, my God, this guy's got girlfriends.

00:04:40.020 What on earth that that is part of Americana for me?

00:04:44.020 Amen. No, I agree.

00:04:45.480 Look, I think a lot of men, a lot of people were probably jealous if even at the the assumption of it.

00:04:52.180 Did you get a lot of people reaching out saying that's wrong, you shouldn't have that type of lifestyle?

00:04:58.400 Like, did you get a lot of lifestyle judgment, lifestyle judgment stuff?

00:05:02.200 And just somehow that the ladies are very young and are taken advantage of at all from the driver that was coming out of the one unique character's mouth that talked on there.

00:05:14.800 The girls that are here, these are women in their 40s, you know, rolling up on 50.

00:05:18.940 Those are the key characters that help run the preserve.

00:05:23.020 These aren't teenagers that are walking around here.

00:05:25.660 Granted, some of them have been here for decades.

00:05:28.600 But these are girls that operate this facility that are kickass, lion tamer girls who hold their own and have been doing so and operating the facility autonomous from me.

00:05:39.720 I don't even have to be here and they can make it roll along and have everything work out.

00:05:44.800 Oh, that's impressive.

00:05:46.400 Yeah, no, it definitely seemed like a lot of tough women there.

00:05:48.840 A lot of, you know, confident, confident ladies.

00:05:51.860 What is it about a cat that women love a cat?

00:05:55.060 What is it about a cat?

00:05:56.680 I mean, it just is this incredible symbol of beauty, power and grace.

00:06:00.980 A tiger is the sexiest thing in the world.

00:06:04.120 It's covered in that incredible primordial calligraphy, those amazing stripes against that super orange background.

00:06:11.380 It's like an unreal superhero character.

00:06:14.900 Everybody's kind of got a vibe of loving tigers.

00:06:17.400 And when you see one in person, it just carries forward.

00:06:20.920 It makes people excited.

00:06:22.260 People want to get their hands on them.

00:06:23.900 And when you get the incredible opportunity that I've gotten and some of the senior staff that are here,

00:06:28.740 where you have great big 600 to 922 pound tigers come up and lay their neck on you and rub, rub, rub.

00:06:37.200 And you can walk with them.

00:06:39.140 You know, there's the girls that jump on their back and they run off and they ride them.

00:06:42.500 So this is an unbelievable privilege.

00:06:45.760 It's just you are communing with a slice of nature in its greatest.

00:06:50.100 It's a reflection.

00:06:51.420 In a tiger's face, there's like a reflection of nature at its purest.

00:06:56.680 You're looking out at the eyes of God in a way when a tiger is staring into your face.

00:07:00.900 It is what I call God's greatest paint job.

00:07:04.320 Just a fabulous kid.

00:07:06.040 And they're incredible when they're little because they're just miniature tigers.

00:07:09.640 They look just like big tigers, which is so unique.

00:07:12.060 You know, not a lot of little things look just like the big things.

00:07:15.680 Oh, yeah.

00:07:16.420 It's got that super appeal when they're young and people have the opportunity to meet them and interact with them.

00:07:22.340 And it's a bucket list with so many people put right up.

00:07:26.520 Oh, yeah.

00:07:26.840 I want to see a tiger.

00:07:29.180 And they want to see a big tiger.

00:07:30.560 A lot of them think, man, I want to pet a big tiger.

00:07:32.700 Now, you know, I've heard you talking a little bit, watching your show.

00:07:35.220 I've been watching, you know, the King of the Sting.

00:07:38.600 Oh, yeah.

00:07:39.200 King of the Sting.

00:07:40.340 You know, some people are a little hesitant.

00:07:42.520 They think that a tiger is going to do something incorrect.

00:07:45.920 But our big tigers are fabulous guys.

00:07:48.080 You know, we did it – we made Jim Carrey look like the pet detective.

00:07:51.300 We made Eddie Murphy look like Dr. Doolittle.

00:07:54.280 It's that we have a great relationship with these unbelievable big predators,

00:07:58.640 and we're able to have them interact with us and act as though they are tame.

00:08:03.940 They're not.

00:08:04.560 I certainly don't think anybody should take one home.

00:08:06.620 They do not make pets.

00:08:08.440 They're not something that I think the untrained should do anymore.

00:08:12.020 And you should be out doing – you know, driving a race car 250 miles an hour like the pros do.

00:08:17.220 But it's something that takes time to learn how to do and decades of devotion and understanding,

00:08:23.520 which most people never gather.

00:08:25.720 Yeah, and most people don't have the opportunity to, you know.

00:08:28.440 And, yeah, it's definitely like – I think that's one of the most fascinating things about Tiger King documentary

00:08:33.580 and just for a lot of the nation to learn about you kind of, you know, cat liaison men who are able to really interact with these animals

00:08:42.160 is that so many people just don't have that opportunity to be that bridge between humans and just cat them, you know?

00:08:52.820 Yep.

00:08:53.220 And it's just something that is very complicated, right?

00:08:57.260 It's not something simple to do.

00:08:59.360 And you see people like Carol, who's a fool with her cats.

00:09:02.740 She got out there.

00:09:03.600 She tried to hug and kiss them and play with them.

00:09:05.500 It all fell apart.

00:09:06.480 That's the normal story.

00:09:08.300 Joe certainly has had a bunch of big cats around.

00:09:11.960 But as they matured and became older cats, almost all the relationships have fallen apart.

00:09:17.040 The rest of the characters on the show, none of them have those great relationships with big adult cats outside of enclosures

00:09:24.980 where they're freely interacting and doing what they do.

00:09:27.400 Do you see my son, Cody?

00:09:28.600 I think you have seen him.

00:09:30.760 That modern, man that's out there with gigantic adult tigers wrestling, riding, swimming, playing,

00:09:37.540 the same as I did for my whole youth and I still do all the time now.

00:09:41.320 He's just the flash and the beautiful guy out there making it look like it's so simple.

00:09:47.040 But that is super rare.

00:09:48.480 He's one of a kind left in the world.

00:09:51.120 What is it, like 13 million people following him on social media?

00:09:53.940 He has such a unique presence and such a fabulous thing going on that's different than anybody else.

00:10:00.220 Yeah, he's able to really get out there and interact with those cats.

00:10:03.220 I mean, I definitely noticed that.

00:10:04.420 I was checking out some of his YouTube videos yesterday.

00:10:09.160 When you look at the documentary, do you see, like, where did they go wrong?

00:10:14.300 Like, are there things that obviously they blew out of proportion?

00:10:16.620 I mean, obviously they, you know, tried to classify or make it just vaguely look like your granddaughter could be, you know, a woman you're dating or something.

00:10:26.360 But what else did they do?

00:10:27.740 What else did they capture wrong?

00:10:29.380 Or what else did we not get the true story on when you look at it?

00:10:32.140 I mean, the huge line they stepped over was there at the end, bringing up on the black screen that they have asked me about some inappropriateness with Tiger Cubs and I haven't answered.

00:10:43.860 But in fact, these guys talked to me for maybe five full days of filming and three or four half days.

00:10:50.540 They asked me every question in the world.

00:10:52.700 Ninety-nine percent of them had nothing to do with anything that was going to become Tiger King.

00:10:58.180 And they just pick and chose little pieces.

00:11:00.800 Of course, I run this incredible world-class operation.

00:11:04.400 I have Tiger Cubs that live with me, cradle to grave.

00:11:07.200 No Tiger babies are ever going to be euthanized or ever going to be pushed out of the way.

00:11:12.740 They're incredibly precious to us, all the way from what they provide us to just their very nature to they have hyper value.

00:11:22.860 They're super rare.

00:11:24.620 We are reproducing tigers that have all been genetically tested from the time they're young and from their grandparents and great-grandparents.

00:11:34.020 And we genetically test them to know that these are some of the most genetically diverse tigers on Earth.

00:11:39.380 The only ones left on the planet with this genetic makeup.

00:11:44.040 We've done that through world-class genetics that continue to work for us, with us.

00:11:49.920 And those guys have been able to see this incredibly rare opportunity that we have.

00:11:54.840 And this is a bank against the potential eventual extinction.

00:11:59.100 Tigers are super rare.

00:12:01.160 Oh, yeah.

00:12:01.920 I never see a tiger.

00:12:03.080 You can go buy a tiger.

00:12:04.680 Well, that's just a complete joke.

00:12:05.960 I cannot go buy a tiger.

00:12:07.140 I know everybody that's ever been around, 99% of everyone who ever used to do it is gone.

00:12:13.140 There is no one that has a tiger for sale that you can solicit and find.

00:12:18.040 It is a felony.

00:12:19.640 You know, yeah, you can buy some heroin, I guess, somewhere.

00:12:22.280 But it's a heck of a step to go and illegally be involved with whoever it is to move and sell any kind of super illegal product.

00:12:31.180 And that's what a tiger would be.

00:12:32.340 Is there a black market?

00:12:34.620 Is there a black market for them, guys?

00:12:36.060 Not America.

00:12:36.580 There's a black market in Laos or Cambodia or, you know, places in Southeast Asia where people still readily consume tigers.

00:12:43.940 The greatest threat the tiger has is being consumed by people who think that the incredible power and grace of the tiger will be given to them somehow by eating its parts and pieces.

00:12:55.200 All the way from its testicles to its whiskers, a different parts, give you a different vibe and fix you up.

00:13:02.500 But in America, a tiger cub is precious and amazingly rare.

00:13:06.680 There is no surplus of tiger cubs in North America.

00:13:10.360 There's virtually no one doing anything with cubs except the characters on the film, of which most of those people are out or on their way out.

00:13:19.980 They no longer have a license.

00:13:21.240 You know, there's there is no more Tim Stark.

00:13:24.320 There is no more of a number of those characters.

00:13:26.860 And if they're not, they're right on the precipice of falling off.

00:13:30.120 We've never had a single violation of any kind.

00:13:32.800 And at the end, they also said we were raided.

00:13:35.520 We're not.

00:13:35.940 Yeah.

00:13:36.060 Yeah.

00:13:36.240 You guys had that raid.

00:13:37.480 In December, they said you guys had a raid that came through there, Doc, for the cats.

00:13:41.080 We had an inquiry from Virginia magistrate there who wanted to get some DNA from some lion cubs that we had.

00:13:52.400 And so what are they doing with the DNA, do you think?

00:13:54.420 Somebody in Virginia is having a meltdown case with them about an animal rights thing in a small hometown zoo that they don't like and they want to close it down.

00:14:05.780 They have closed it down.

00:14:07.580 He didn't explain to them in some capacity what they wanted to hear about some baby lions that were born there.

00:14:14.620 Lions were born there.

00:14:15.660 He called me and said, I have lions I can't take care of.

00:14:18.100 Would you take them?

00:14:19.020 I would be happy to give them to you.

00:14:20.420 They said, yes, my daughter got in the car, picked them up, and brought them back.

00:14:24.320 Completely legal transaction.

00:14:26.480 Everything's peachy.

00:14:27.600 But he didn't tell anybody what he did.

00:14:29.640 He didn't explain it right.

00:14:31.080 He got some beef with them, and they came down here to say, do you have those lions?

00:14:36.080 And I said, yes.

00:14:36.640 They said, we believe you, but we have to have inequivable proof.

00:14:41.160 We've got to know that that's the lions.

00:14:43.560 Let's take DNA from those lions, and we'll be on our way.

00:14:46.440 I was never found or even questioned of doing anything wrong or having stepped over any line of any kind.

00:14:53.300 We're just here with our wildlife, having this amazing setup go on, and just trying to make things smooth so the guests can see us and everybody have the greatest experience.

00:15:04.080 Yeah, it seems wonderful.

00:15:05.680 It seems beautiful.

00:15:06.500 We're closed up a little bit because of the COVID, just like everybody.

00:15:09.060 Yeah.

00:15:09.580 You know, we're waiting for that break to happen.

00:15:11.340 Is it affecting you guys' business?

00:15:13.020 Say again?

00:15:13.600 Is that affecting you guys' business right now, the COVID?

00:15:16.280 Oh, yeah.

00:15:16.560 We're 98% down.

00:15:18.040 You know, there's no doubt.

00:15:18.980 The whole thing is definitely shifted in a capacity to the Myrtle Beach, the town of Myrtle Beach, which can have 150,000 hotel rooms.

00:15:29.560 You can't rent a room.

00:15:31.180 It's closed up.

00:15:32.240 Wow.

00:15:32.780 You can come here, Cody.

00:15:35.300 Oh, Cody's there?

00:15:36.160 Cody was walking in.

00:15:37.240 I know he was out taking a walk.

00:15:38.660 He was going to come say hi and see what was happening.

00:15:42.260 What's happening?

00:15:42.940 He's got some big footsteps.

00:15:44.720 Give me a while, man.

00:15:45.620 Who's this?

00:15:46.200 Oh, come here.

00:15:47.320 Yeah, looking good.

00:15:48.120 Looking good.

00:15:48.860 Who's that right there?

00:15:51.120 What's up, dude?

00:15:52.680 What's up, Cody?

00:15:54.240 Gang, bro.

00:15:55.380 Oh, that's a beautiful animal right there.

00:15:57.020 What is that?

00:15:57.860 This is Volley the Chimp, one of Cody's brothers that hangs out with us here and is hanging around.

00:16:02.740 He just goes out and plays.

00:16:05.260 He comes in every evening and has a big dinner party with us and hangs around and has a lovely time doing that stuff.

00:16:10.880 Yeah, yeah.

00:16:11.360 Wow.

00:16:12.120 How long is he?

00:16:13.540 How long is his body?

00:16:15.060 Oh, he's got a nice hand.

00:16:16.940 He's a big guy.

00:16:18.180 He's well over 100 pounds.

00:16:20.000 He's about four feet tall.

00:16:21.740 He's going on nine years old.

00:16:23.820 And, Cody and Doc, do you guys, in interacting with animals so closely, especially here like Volley, does it make you feel more like evolution?

00:16:32.500 Or do you still think that there's a religious element?

00:16:36.760 Like what kind of comes into your soul when you're this close to animals?

00:16:40.080 I mean, I think that there is potentially a creator to the universe, right?

00:16:44.280 I believe that there is some kind of divine fingerprint that helps organize us all out.

00:16:49.580 I don't know that anybody's down there doing day-to-day calls on how we behave, but I think that there is something spectacular in what was made up and how it all happened.

00:16:59.800 What do you think?

00:17:00.320 What do you think?

00:17:00.720 Yeah, I think so.

00:17:02.200 I got a question.

00:17:03.120 Volley, do you think that Carol Baskin had anything to do with her husband's disappearance?

00:17:07.840 That's really what I think a lot of people want to know.

00:17:10.080 So, he's running them up now.

00:17:13.320 He's over there wrestling with Cody.

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00:22:19.600 $100 of free delivery credit with no minimum purchase for your first seven days.

00:22:24.480 And now back to the episode.

00:22:27.320 So, Doc, in a video I saw online, Carol Baskin, who's also another, you know, she's another cat owner and farmer that's featured in the documentary.

00:22:38.800 Carol really pushes the envelope of you guys mishandling cub treatment over there.

00:22:44.640 Right.

00:22:45.220 Some crazy illusion of it, you know.

00:22:47.440 The cub is a super valuable character that is tense.

00:22:51.380 Why?

00:22:52.860 Why is the cub so valuable?

00:22:54.440 He creates it.

00:22:54.940 Like, why is it all about the cubs?

00:22:56.880 Like, everyone's always like, the cubs, the cubs, the cubs.

00:22:59.080 Why is that?

00:23:00.120 The real reason is it's just they know it's going to hit the heartstrings of people, so they want to create drama.

00:23:05.160 Unfounded, unprecedented, endless drama.

00:23:09.400 People like Carol and PETA just trying to make up a story.

00:23:13.220 Of course, the cubs are super valuable to us as individuals, as characters that hold vital genetics to our ongoing program.

00:23:22.300 Almost 40 years where we've been holding these family of tigers together.

00:23:26.320 I've known several hundred tigers in that time, trying to have them hold up that genetics, which may, in fact, save the tiger and through that, make it that there will even be tigers on the planet in time to come.

00:23:40.000 A baby tiger needs TLC, round the clock.

00:23:43.160 You just can't rough them and handle them in some way that's inappropriate.

00:23:46.720 They are cared for, round the clock, handled super minimally.

00:23:50.900 You know, they pretend like we're passing them off in a line.

00:23:53.800 20 minutes.

00:23:55.040 People come, they get a 20-minute interaction, three days a week.

00:23:58.240 That's it.

00:23:59.060 One hour.

00:23:59.740 And what about when they age out of kind of that sugar realm where people are loving them and, you know, like, they start to become, you know, hit the terrible twos, you know, like, even like children do.

00:24:10.180 Do you guys, is there an underground railroad or something where you guys get rid of tigers at that point?

00:24:15.640 Or is there, you know, what's the real deal?

00:24:17.940 You see all those guys that are with Cody, those are Cody's, you know, brothers and sisters that he's out there with all day.

00:24:24.280 He's got every color, every size, every shape, boys, girls.

00:24:28.440 We continually have a relationship with those guys throughout their life, cradle to grave.

00:24:33.560 They're important characters that on the preserve, we swim with them in a huge pool.

00:24:38.540 They've got to be great big guys for that.

00:24:40.000 We have a big tiger run where we have a tiger chase high-speed lures.

00:24:43.860 We have 10 tigers that are set up to go and chase that lure system and be part of the whole interactive part of the tour.

00:24:51.980 And big tigers come out.

00:24:53.240 22 adults are on our big night safari dinner party.

00:24:57.600 Every tiger has a vital importance to us and is like critical characters.

00:25:02.740 Plus this idea that someone would do that, taking a tiger and killing it, taking a tiger and getting rid of it.

00:25:08.760 I wouldn't do it.

00:25:09.480 It's a crime.

00:25:10.600 I wouldn't do it unless the tiger attacked me or something.

00:25:13.260 I probably wouldn't do it.

00:25:14.420 No, it's immoral.

00:25:15.780 It's no purpose to it.

00:25:19.180 And it's not going to be something that creates a benefit of business.

00:25:24.960 You need this tiger to be there for his genetics, for his beauty, for what he's going to be able to do later.

00:25:31.880 And as an individual, he's a highly important, loving, caring character that a girl, a boy, sat there holding and loving and giving it a bottle around the clock and always being with it.

00:25:44.740 So these are imprinted fur children in their own way as they-

00:25:49.800 These are family members.

00:25:51.440 You know, and we have the world's oldest cat was here.

00:25:54.540 The world's oldest bear was here.

00:25:56.520 There are some retirees here that are decades old and ready to step off the edge, and we coddled them along so that they can cross the rainbows.

00:26:06.140 Is Joe Biden there?

00:26:07.260 I feel like Joe Biden should be in there as well, kind of.

00:26:11.460 I wouldn't be surprised if he qualifies in that group, maybe.

00:26:15.540 So, yeah, obviously, if you guys were doing anything harmful to animals, it would really harm your business.

00:26:22.420 But why do other- why is there such venom between different cat camps where they're like, they're doing this, they're doing this?

00:26:29.540 Why isn't there more of a unified group that we're all doing the right thing, do you feel like?

00:26:36.140 There's a couple reasons.

00:26:37.180 One, those guys are out there running a gigantic fundraising business to get people to send them money to rescue something in need.

00:26:44.700 So, they have to create drama.

00:26:46.620 They have to say, these animals need our help today.

00:26:48.640 You give us a dollar.

00:26:49.880 We'll help make this change.

00:26:51.960 Whether the change is real or not has nothing to do with the equation.

00:26:55.480 That's those guys who are pretending to be rescued.

00:26:58.600 You look at my place, it's Shangri-La.

00:27:00.920 Huge open forest habitats.

00:27:02.940 Beautiful waterfalls and ponds and space everywhere.

00:27:06.520 Yeah, it's beautiful.

00:27:07.380 I've seen the video online.

00:27:08.620 Yeah, some of y'all's videos online, man.

00:27:10.300 It is really- it is beautiful.

00:27:11.900 I feel like I went to one of the covers on- remember the Jehovah's Witness, they give you that cover of the pamphlet?

00:27:16.940 Beautiful paradise.

00:27:17.380 And it would have a- yeah, yeah, it's beautiful, man.

00:27:20.920 And you look at Carol's place.

00:27:23.320 Holy cow.

00:27:24.880 It is a dungeon.

00:27:26.900 It is so low-

00:27:28.140 It's like white slavery over there, too.

00:27:30.060 It has a very white slavery kind of vibe.

00:27:32.400 She's making $4 to $5 million a year according to her taxes.

00:27:36.680 But it's all donation.

00:27:38.000 Is that right?

00:27:39.000 What's that?

00:27:39.380 But her money is- they're able to earn money through donation, right?

00:27:43.400 And the other camps don't do that.

00:27:45.260 Is that correct?

00:27:46.000 Right.

00:27:46.260 It's a totally separate thing of how they raise that money and what they're doing with it.

00:27:50.660 You know, and then you got the activists that are like PETA or Humane Society of the United States who are a vegan world order.

00:27:56.800 They want everybody to be forced vegetarian.

00:27:58.440 They want every human-animal interaction to stop, and they say that all zoos are bad.

00:28:04.300 And, of course, you can't ride a horse.

00:28:05.560 You certainly can't go get a puppy.

00:28:07.260 It doesn't matter if you skip the pound.

00:28:09.420 Every animal is better off dead.

00:28:10.960 The head of PETA has said that, you know, a world without puppies would be just fine.

00:28:16.020 I love a puppy.

00:28:17.440 I've had them next to me and with me my entire life.

00:28:19.860 And I think it's essential to get that love and understanding and connection to ourself and animals to have puppies and to have things around in our life.

00:28:29.640 And they're living on another side.

00:28:31.520 We really also work heavily as a wildlife conservation education organization.

00:28:35.800 We have our own camps in the deep jungles of Sumatra that we hire the rangers for.

00:28:42.260 We've built the stations.

00:28:43.840 We have guys out every day picking up stairs, chasing poachers.

00:28:47.880 We deliver drones around the world to anti-poaching teams to fly drones and find poachers.

00:28:53.600 We've put millions of dollars into programs like this.

00:28:56.220 Those characters never even consider doing things like that.

00:28:59.780 It's completely outside of what they're up to.

00:29:02.240 We're on a different stage.

00:29:03.840 But then you've got this other side that is the American Zoo Association, the city zoos.

00:29:09.640 They're running a program where everybody's equal and everybody can care for it.

00:29:13.440 No one there needs to have their hands on a tiger.

00:29:15.440 So they say anybody who puts their hands on a tiger is wrong.

00:29:18.720 And they need to be right.

00:29:20.520 More people go to zoos in America than all professional sports events can find.

00:29:27.720 People don't realize there's billions of dollars at stake in zoo visitation.

00:29:33.660 I didn't realize that at all.

00:29:35.160 It's huge.

00:29:36.440 The big zoos are raking in phenomenal money.

00:29:38.740 San Diego Zoo keeps money in reserve of over half a billion dollars just to keep things running.

00:29:46.440 Their overhead is hundreds of millions of dollars.

00:29:50.160 And it runs from the public pouring money into it.

00:29:53.580 Because most of the public loves wildlife and wants to see it from afar.

00:29:59.240 They really wish they could hold it.

00:30:00.620 And most of them don't even realize it's possible to do it safely, securely, and beneficially somewhere.

00:30:05.700 Doing it here creates a big multi-sided benefit where you get to see the animals and pay for their wild project restoration so that they have a place to live.

00:30:18.020 Hopefully that can move forward as we all make up our mind whether we're going to hold the world for wildlife or if we're going to hold the world for just people.

00:30:26.160 Because we've got to come up with a decision there for the wild world to be left alone a little bit.

00:30:31.480 And everybody wants their slice of it because it's also a valuable asset.

00:30:36.540 You know, everything's an asset.

00:30:38.780 Well, if I were an animal, I'd rather live over there with you guys, I feel like, because a lot of the zoos are a real shithole, honestly.

00:30:45.980 Yeah, they can be.

00:30:46.800 This is Vali's brother.

00:30:48.560 Cody went out and he wanted to make it fair.

00:30:50.780 So he went and got Vali's brother here and brought Sugriva in.

00:30:54.040 How you doing, Sugriva?

00:30:54.640 How you doing?

00:30:55.180 Yeah, look at those guys right there.

00:30:56.600 What's up, Sugriva?

00:30:57.760 Sugriva's...

00:30:58.200 We watch you all the time.

00:31:00.180 Oh, thanks, Cody.

00:31:01.140 Yeah, I was just looking at some of your videos yesterday.

00:31:02.980 I got nervous sometimes, man.

00:31:04.400 You and those cats seem real...

00:31:06.760 I mean, it got a little WWE in some of the videos.

00:31:09.360 You guys really are having a good time, you know?

00:31:11.840 Oh, yeah, man.

00:31:12.460 I've been doing it since I was a baby.

00:31:14.060 I've been doing it since I was a little kid.

00:31:16.520 That's so brave, man.

00:31:17.500 I got attacked by a couple animals on my birthday once when I was young, and that really set me on a bad course with Anamelia.

00:31:23.320 But it's coming around more.

00:31:24.640 I dated a girl that had two cats.

00:31:26.960 There you go.

00:31:28.260 Working it up.

00:31:29.000 Working your way up.

00:31:30.460 Yeah, maybe one day I'll be able to come there and see you guys.

00:31:33.500 I have a question.

00:31:34.360 How is the documentary?

00:31:35.440 Do you feel like...

00:31:36.800 I got scared at the end of watching Tiger King that I thought to myself, man, this is really going to put a damper on this kind of wild experience that you could have with cats, or the most innate experience you could have with cats.

00:31:52.960 Do you feel like that at all?

00:31:55.840 Or at the end, did you feel like this is going to inspire more people to come to these experiences?

00:32:01.180 I hope it lets people think they can experience it and create the benefit for the animals in the wild and for the animals that are here with us.

00:32:10.320 But it is very rare in America.

00:32:12.180 There's very few places that are left doing it.

00:32:14.580 It's very expensive, you know, even to consider how it flows and how to start it and operate it.

00:32:20.160 And people don't even have the knowledge of how to go about it.

00:32:23.900 So it's disappearing.

00:32:25.360 We are an endangered species ourselves right now.

00:32:28.560 The whole thing is slimmed way up.

00:32:31.060 The opposition's being vicious, you know.

00:32:32.900 They wish to pass laws that would say, no, baby tiger could ever be touched by anybody ever again.

00:32:41.660 They want to take your right away.

00:32:43.720 It's your right to scuba dive or parachute or, you know, go 80 miles an hour downhill on skis.

00:32:49.240 It should be your right to interact with wildlife in any way that you see fit if you're doing it beneficially for the wildlife,

00:32:57.040 if you're doing it in a safe manner for both yourself and the wildlife, and that it should be a free choice that everyone has.

00:33:06.140 You know, they would want to take it away because it would disenfranchise someone like myself.

00:33:12.080 There would be a change in how we went about raising money for the conservation projects overseas.

00:33:18.160 And their ideas of what's right would be better financed, right?

00:33:23.700 Yeah.

00:33:24.140 It's a new background.

00:33:26.000 That's so cool, man.

00:33:27.740 There's a war out there.

00:33:28.920 There's a silly thing called the Big Cat Safety Act, which is just a ridiculous law that fits private owners from public ownership,

00:33:36.600 where they say, oh, the big public zoos can have big cats.

00:33:39.700 Nobody private can have big cats anymore, which isn't America.

00:33:42.580 It's just like any other business.

00:33:44.180 It sounds like any other business realm.

00:33:46.720 It's like trying to kill out the little man.

00:33:48.920 I did feel like that at the end of the documentary.

00:33:51.020 I worried, I said, man, is this going to kill the little man, you know, or the middle man?

00:33:55.900 Because I remember when I was growing up, we had a guy by us that had a couple of animals.

00:34:00.220 I don't even know what one of them was.

00:34:01.600 And we'd go over there and pet them, you know, and you could see the animals and stuff like that.

00:34:05.840 And I felt like it at least gave me at least, you know, an experience with animals that was close to me.

00:34:11.380 You know, we had by us, we had a wildlife refuge when I was in junior high.

00:34:17.480 And you go there and they got like a camel or something and all kinds of long animals, giraffe and everything.

00:34:24.720 And I'm assuming that once these kind of things move forward, that a lot of a lot of you guys and those sorts of things would be shut down.

00:34:31.920 That would be the idea, right?

00:34:33.500 Because the opposition ultimately wants to say that you can't have a goldfish.

00:34:38.880 You can't have a leather shoe.

00:34:40.940 You can never have enough turkey dinner.

00:34:43.200 You know, they're all the way to the extreme.

00:34:45.620 The big money, powerful organizations like PETA and Humane Society of the United States are anti-all-human interaction or entertainment for pets or for food.

00:34:57.520 Now, I'm a vegetarian, but I don't think you're supposed to be a vegetarian.

00:35:01.640 You have to make that choice yourself.

00:35:03.860 I can't impose upon you my own concepts of thinking.

00:35:08.260 Everyone has to make their own free choice.

00:35:10.580 I think that those ideas of somebody trying to legislate a what they think is a moral choice for you is wrong.

00:35:19.460 And that's what a lot of this boils down to is them saying we know what's best.

00:35:24.560 You know, there's a whole political concept of we know how you should really behave and be treated.

00:35:29.600 Let us tell you what it is.

00:35:31.520 You can't decide big government.

00:35:33.360 Right.

00:35:34.060 I like having animals in the wild.

00:35:35.840 I like animals.

00:35:36.620 Look, if I go outside, I like having to stay on a swivel, not knowing what's over there, what's over there.

00:35:41.880 You know, it could be an animal, could be a falcon, could be anything.

00:35:44.700 I like, I like that, that, you know, I like the, I like there to be some risk involved in my life.

00:35:51.520 You know, sometimes everything just becomes this bumper lifestyle.

00:35:54.680 That's just too much.

00:35:55.820 You know, it's just, it's just, everything's just so, uh, I like a little bit of freelance opportunity.

00:36:02.560 Yeah.

00:36:03.040 You know, I always have.

00:36:04.200 Um, moving on, I mean, that's how we, uh, that's what we're founded on is people, you

00:36:09.020 know, we're rolling by the seat of their own pants as they see fit.

00:36:12.580 So long as they're not harming others and that they're doing things according, if there's

00:36:16.900 rules, sure, there should be rules, but the rule says you can't, well, that's not part

00:36:22.600 of the game.

00:36:23.100 It has to be, you can, but you've got to do it in a, in a thoughtful, right way.

00:36:29.620 Yeah.

00:36:30.060 I have a question, uh, going back to the documentary, uh, where do you think that Joe, um, Joe exotic

00:36:37.480 would be if it weren't for Carol Baskin today?

00:36:42.440 I think that, um, he's had a lot of difficulties that have come up.

00:36:46.540 I think there was other difficult things besides Carol.

00:36:49.680 I think that PETA was a real difficulty and a thorn in his side.

00:36:53.480 I think that Joe was too big and imploding in his own way.

00:36:58.100 I think he was taking on so much responsibility of so many animals.

00:37:02.580 And I think that that is, um, just a difficulty in itself.

00:37:07.740 There's a certain point that you have to stop.

00:37:10.740 You know, if you can properly care for 100 chickens, then you've got 100 chickens and

00:37:17.040 you built a barn farm and that's how it is.

00:37:18.960 If you add 10 more chickens to there, you start, uh, reducing the quality of all 110 chickens

00:37:25.600 now.

00:37:26.200 And I think he was piling it on and that was causing a lot of pain and suffering for him.

00:37:32.540 And that potentially that was going to expand into the staff and to the animals and to other

00:37:37.280 things.

00:37:37.620 It all became tragic in its own way.

00:37:40.500 And it's incredibly difficult to find people that want to help you.

00:37:45.760 So I think he had very difficult staff problems.

00:37:49.320 You know, he was, he was really, uh, scraping the edges sometimes to find people that he could

00:37:56.980 have, do the work there and to try and have the food.

00:38:00.260 It cost me a fortune to feed my cats.

00:38:03.080 I have to bring a thousand pounds of food out every day.

00:38:05.620 And if it's not that I would eat or I would expect my children to eat, I wouldn't expect

00:38:10.500 a tiger to eat it, but they're grabbing all that old funky meats and secondhand deliveries

00:38:17.160 and things.

00:38:18.120 And that, um, also creates an implosion.

00:38:21.180 Things are unhealthy.

00:38:22.160 Things can't reproduce.

00:38:23.260 Things can't live their best life.

00:38:25.560 You, everybody needs, uh, care and quality in their life.

00:38:30.060 When you reduce the care, you reduce the quality of the opportunities for them to eat, to sleep

00:38:35.120 for where they can stay.

00:38:36.780 Everything trips off the edge.

00:38:38.580 So Joe was imploding in his own, his own way.

00:38:41.320 And I spoke to him a couple of times saying, Joe, you've got too many parts here.

00:38:45.640 You got too much going on.

00:38:47.180 You need to worry about the, uh, care and the center point here.

00:38:52.380 And was he able to hear that?

00:38:53.500 Like he referred, he's referred to you or he, in the documentary at one point, he referred

00:38:57.140 to you as a mentor and somebody he really looks up to.

00:38:59.840 Um, was he able to hear that when you were talking to him, when you kind of, uh, when

00:39:03.640 you guys checked in with each other?

00:39:06.860 He was, um, feel like I'm going to sneeze.

00:39:09.900 Okay.

00:39:10.100 Um, he was able to hear some of it, but hearing it and enacting it are two different things

00:39:17.680 saying, try and find some better quality help.

00:39:20.400 Shoot.

00:39:21.400 Many restaurants in America that serve fine food cannot find fine servers.

00:39:26.180 You know, many people that have great businesses have the most difficult time with staff.

00:39:32.340 Joe was at odds trying to have staff.

00:39:35.280 And then he just wanted to be famous.

00:39:37.300 You know, he got his wish.

00:39:38.780 That's the way everybody always needs to think of careful what you wish for.

00:39:42.560 Joe's more famous than he's ever going to be right now.

00:39:45.740 You know, for him, this is the crowning moment in his career.

00:39:50.140 And he's oddly not even free to see it, which is, um, which is such a wild thing.

00:39:55.940 Um, on the documentary, a lot of, uh, there seems to be like a lot of like drug use and

00:40:01.640 behind the scenes drug use.

00:40:03.200 And I've used drugs, so I know what it's about.

00:40:05.380 But did you feel like that had a lot to do with some of the things falling apart over

00:40:10.200 there in Joe's world?

00:40:11.820 Yeah.

00:40:11.940 I think when you're using drugs, it's much harder to focus.

00:40:15.320 I mean, at times throughout Joe's life, he used enough drugs that he overdosed on a number

00:40:20.380 of occasions, you know, and that he was looking at some pretty hard stuff to be recreational.

00:40:25.120 Recreational, recreational hard drugs.

00:40:27.680 That's a very difficult thing.

00:40:29.500 There might be some recreational alcohol, or maybe people have recreational marijuana

00:40:34.380 in their life, but recreational meth, man, you're stepping over the line.

00:40:39.680 Meth is a full season game.

00:40:41.440 You can't, yeah, meth is a full season.

00:40:43.440 It's not a pickup game.

00:40:44.780 You know, meth is, uh, yeah, that's a million quarters, dude.

00:40:48.360 That's a lot of overtimes, man.

00:40:49.860 A lot of people coming to work with him, falling into the same trap.

00:40:54.320 How can they possibly provide the care that you would hope?

00:40:58.340 And the people that are continuing in that kind of shadier side of wildlife, that part

00:41:05.520 of it is probably the most detrimental thing that can go on.

00:41:09.080 You need that clear head, sharp thinking, and focus to make this work out right.

00:41:14.220 Um, would you ever be able, I would be, I would be scared to be on drugs around a big cat.

00:41:22.540 I would be scared to be on drugs around a big cat.

00:41:26.640 How do you feel about that?

00:41:28.500 I'm scared to be around big cats.

00:41:30.240 If I have allergies going on, you know, I'm certainly not going to go out there and have

00:41:34.680 a few drinks and see what's happening.

00:41:36.560 That just does not work.

00:41:38.360 This is, this is, uh, on your toes, ready for the serve.

00:41:42.440 I tell people, if you don't feel like you're in a tennis match and that other guy's getting

00:41:46.760 to throw a hundred mile an hour ball at you right now, that you're not ready for that

00:41:51.300 tiger to open that door.

00:41:52.780 If you open it, when we open a door, we say, here you go.

00:41:55.300 We open the door right up and we say, how you doing there, tiger boy?

00:41:58.600 Come right here.

00:41:59.680 Come to me.

00:42:00.700 Hold.

00:42:01.480 We put them together with us.

00:42:03.200 We say, let's follow, walk.

00:42:04.860 We have very organized, very specific relationships that we nurture from the time they're very small.

00:42:11.020 We're the last ones doing this kind of action in America.

00:42:15.380 It's just faded away.

00:42:17.900 Joe was doing it different.

00:42:19.720 He was looking for a tiger that didn't like to bite very often.

00:42:23.380 It's a completely different thing.

00:42:25.540 Cody has not been chewed up.

00:42:27.160 I have never been chewed up in my life.

00:42:29.660 Um, we have not been harmed on our facility.

00:42:32.400 We've had bumps and scratches and fall down, but we've certainly had far more trouble with

00:42:36.800 people tripping and falling with no cats around that anytime a cat hurting somebody, it's

00:42:42.960 just not there.

00:42:43.740 That's not part of what goes on.

00:42:46.120 Yeah.

00:42:46.620 I know.

00:42:46.960 Yeah.

00:42:47.220 Joe's over there.

00:42:48.040 He likes cats that like to listen to ACDC and smoke cigarettes.

00:42:52.080 And some of that stuff blew my mind.

00:42:54.020 Like the, Hey, I even saw a cat putting a Copenhagen in his jaw.

00:42:57.660 You know, it definitely gets a little more risque over there at his camp, but it seemed

00:43:04.580 like it was just an every, his, his whole tiger complex, uh, that GW spot was just an

00:43:10.380 example of him.

00:43:11.340 It was just, it really is.

00:43:13.860 It behaves the way the owner does.

00:43:15.800 It seems like, like each one of you guys' camps kind of follows the owner.

00:43:19.480 Very erratic behavior, you know, and very, very much behavior of somehow me, me, me, and,

00:43:27.200 and how it's going to reflect, look, and be about me, not about the animals and certainly

00:43:32.440 not about the big picture that wildlife desperately needs, the big picture of what are tigers doing

00:43:39.120 in the wild and how are you personally trying to help?

00:43:42.540 And I talked with Joe about that a couple of times, trying to get him on that vein.

00:43:46.300 One time he, he got some money and raised it.

00:43:49.740 I think selling prophylactics, he told me, and he raised money for rhinos and he made

00:43:55.740 a donation to international rhino foundation so that he could help save rhinos, but it was

00:44:02.400 a one-off.

00:44:03.060 He couldn't keep the momentum.

00:44:04.440 He needed the money for other, uh, activities in life, I guess.

00:44:08.760 And he just didn't hold it together.

00:44:10.300 And he got, you know, some unscrupulous buddies to come along.

00:44:14.180 And I think they tore him down hard, um, as he, uh, got more diversified and who is helping

00:44:21.460 him run the park.

00:44:22.360 I think that was probably the most dangerous thing he ever did was, uh, bring on more people

00:44:28.180 that were from other, more partners is trouble.

00:44:30.840 Now he also was Joe.

00:44:33.500 When you, where did you first meet Joe?

00:44:35.480 Joe, I first met Joe, um, at a feline conservation federation meeting about, um, people that have

00:44:43.640 animals and, and how they're going to care for them and what they're doing.

00:44:46.180 I was trying to get it, that organization to be able to experience the wildlife and activities

00:44:51.020 that I have here.

00:44:52.260 Maybe 15 years or so ago, he visited, um, because that group was here visiting and he

00:44:58.060 came through the facility and he got to see what, where we're doing and what was happening.

00:45:02.320 And he made application to try and, um, ask the organization to improve his place, give

00:45:08.100 him tips of what could happen.

00:45:09.880 So because of that, I sent him some notes and letters and things about what he, I thought

00:45:14.980 he should do to improve the facility and make a better life for the animals and better life

00:45:19.720 towards the conservation movement.

00:45:21.840 So you guys developed a relationship right then.

00:45:24.420 Um, it seems like obviously once he got, once he got his own thing going, yeah, there was

00:45:29.000 a lot of ego involved in it and then it also, you know, he's a, he had a couple of boyfriends

00:45:35.240 over there who didn't seem exactly to be homosexual, which is fine, dude.

00:45:39.320 Who knows what anybody's doing, you know, like, but do you think that, oh yeah, look, man, I

00:45:45.380 grew up right down the street from the fair.

00:45:46.860 They used to come to our town.

00:45:47.920 So I used to hang out with a lot of wildcats like that.

00:45:50.800 But do you think that Joe was really, there's a lot of drug induced homosexuality that occurred

00:45:56.520 over there and sometimes I personally wonder if Joe was really homosexual.

00:46:01.080 Do you think that he was?

00:46:02.740 Man, he, he seemed that, you know, more hard line.

00:46:06.240 He's such a chameleon.

00:46:07.760 But he had that edge where like, you know, every man that walks by, it's that exaggerated

00:46:12.880 thing, you know, every guy that walks by, they're just like, oh yeah, look, check him

00:46:17.280 out.

00:46:17.520 Look at that guy.

00:46:18.360 Look at those jeans.

00:46:19.160 Look at that.

00:46:19.520 Look at those shoulders.

00:46:20.680 He was on that vibe, you know, just kind of like you were when you were 14, checking out

00:46:25.120 girls and talking the inappropriate smack.

00:46:28.000 He was doing that pretty much as a regular thing.

00:46:32.620 I think Joe had a very difficult childhood and it's just one of those guys that rolled

00:46:37.480 out of childhood in his own traumatized way and that he found solace in being an outrageous

00:46:45.620 gay character.

00:46:47.120 And he, and he, he did that finger snapping outrageous kind of stuff.

00:46:50.860 But on the side, man, he seemed like cuddling up with boys was his thing.

00:46:56.240 And I don't mean underage boys.

00:46:57.600 I just mean the younger, pretty guys that were around him.

00:47:00.780 He liked those guys.

00:47:02.200 You know, I saw you talking a little bit about Travis.

00:47:04.900 Travis was like a, a big giant teddy bear guy.

00:47:09.340 He did not seem like a gay guy.

00:47:11.220 He seemed like a guy that was just like missing love and peace and understanding in his life

00:47:17.200 and, and had come from a broken home.

00:47:19.700 Things weren't right.

00:47:20.900 And Joe filled that space with all kinds of parts and pieces and made it, made it work

00:47:26.040 out.

00:47:26.900 Yeah.

00:47:27.260 It's a little bit of the dark arts, man.

00:47:28.820 It's like, you know, a lot of times I do, you know, I think I blame Joe a little bit.

00:47:33.720 It's like, oh man, you really, it seems like he took advantage of these, of this, of that

00:47:37.200 young man.

00:47:37.860 And, but then somebody at some, I mean, but then it's all a chain of, of events.

00:47:41.920 Somebody took advantage of Joe or treated him wrong.

00:47:44.120 It's just, um, that kind of stuff just goes on and on as big choices.

00:47:48.920 I mean, there's, by the time you say, Hey, I'm going to have a relationship with this man,

00:47:56.740 you've crossed the line.

00:47:58.540 Yeah.

00:47:59.760 And I don't think he held anybody down.

00:48:02.160 Travis was a man mountain.

00:48:04.000 No one was forcing that guy what to do.

00:48:05.740 He crossed the line and said, I guess I'll hold onto that for you.

00:48:09.720 Yeah.

00:48:10.000 I guess I'll hang around here.

00:48:11.340 Yeah.

00:48:11.760 I guess I'll hold onto that for you with my mouth, brother.

00:48:14.220 That's what they're saying.

00:48:15.140 A lot of times here goes down.

00:48:18.660 What, um, what about the filmmaking?

00:48:22.000 That's one thing that we don't see, uh, that we're not able to get an insight from as a viewer,

00:48:26.300 um, of you guys's documentary.

00:48:28.640 What about the filmmaker, Eric good about the production group?

00:48:31.800 Did it seem like they came in with one agenda and serviced a different one or, or, or, or

00:48:37.520 what were your thoughts about them?

00:48:39.760 For that, for them right now, I've been advised to not talk about them because it's gotten

00:48:46.120 to that point where it may get litigation or something going on.

00:48:49.400 So they said, Oh, don't, don't, don't give any what abouts, what ifs about that whole

00:48:54.120 situation.

00:48:54.920 I see that Joe is suing for $94 million in the New York post today.

00:48:59.820 Right.

00:49:00.560 Or the times.

00:49:01.360 I don't remember which one 94 million that, that might help get him out of the clink.

00:49:06.280 Yeah, man.

00:49:07.040 What if, isn't that the perfect Joe amount though?

00:49:09.580 94 million.

00:49:11.440 94 million.

00:49:12.320 That's that, that changed everything for Joe for a few years.

00:49:16.440 You know, Joe kind of reminds me of like, kind of like a gay Wyatt Earp kind of, or like

00:49:20.400 a, like there's, there's such a, he, he, first of all, he, for me, he like reclassifies what

00:49:26.520 a gay man could be.

00:49:27.700 Like, it's like, okay, now a gay man has guns.

00:49:31.100 He's like a, you know, he's got this kind of like Clint East, like really busted kind of

00:49:37.200 Clint Eastwood vibe.

00:49:38.200 What are a few things that you, that you admire about Joe or things that we see in Joe that

00:49:43.300 we don't, that we don't get exactly from the documentary.

00:49:49.940 Where did you grow up?

00:49:51.460 What, what, what, what state were you in?

00:49:53.320 I grew up in Louisiana.

00:49:54.920 Louisiana.

00:49:55.740 So maybe, maybe it was different there.

00:49:57.760 I grew up in Arizona on the Mexico border, you know, and going between Mexico and the

00:50:02.980 South and being a cowboy in California.

00:50:05.540 And there were gay cowboys around, you know, there were hard.

00:50:08.200 Hardcore gay cowboys that look like cowboys, like Joe.

00:50:11.660 And there were untoting guys that just had that edge to them where they just swung both

00:50:18.520 ways.

00:50:19.240 I think that Joe kind of is emulating that because he's 55 or so.

00:50:23.320 So he's from a little bit old, a little era before.

00:50:25.440 Um, I think Joe had good intentions of what he was doing.

00:50:31.120 I think Joe loved the party.

00:50:33.700 And I think Joe was looking for a party where he could be the king of that party.

00:50:39.100 And there is no doubt that having exotic animals, even just from a little monkey to a big old

00:50:46.420 tiger with you creates a, something flashy that will draw someone to you and makes a great

00:50:57.000 icebreaker for that situation.

00:50:59.180 Now the responsibility that comes with it is so great that it will wash it all away.

00:51:06.560 But a lot of time it takes people a long time to figure out the flash of the tiger comes

00:51:12.540 with a massive amount of responsibility and time and that the tiger's not going to act

00:51:19.620 like a dog unless you become a world-class trainer, which then requires thousands of

00:51:24.320 hours and then takes away the party again, you know?

00:51:27.300 So I think he was just wishing, but you know what?

00:51:31.820 I think Joe wished the most and did the most is Joe wanted to be Siegfried and Roy.

00:51:36.160 Yeah.

00:51:37.060 That's his mentor in his mind.

00:51:39.080 I would say far more.

00:51:40.300 I think he wanted to be Siegfried and boys, I think.

00:51:43.320 Yeah.

00:51:43.760 Just, just to have that, you know, wow factor, you know, and that's why he did the magic and

00:51:48.800 did other things.

00:51:49.580 And I think that all that was part of what he was chasing.

00:51:53.540 You know, he, he looked like a really hard worker though, doc.

00:51:56.280 I will say that.

00:51:56.980 And that's just the perception I get.

00:51:58.560 Was he a hard worker?

00:51:59.840 I think he was, I think he was working very hard at a very difficult thing that would

00:52:06.180 not, he could not keep that ship going.

00:52:08.720 I think that he's got a nice ship.

00:52:10.880 They poked a bunch of holes in it and goes the one back there with the bucket slinging

00:52:15.480 water out as fast as he can.

00:52:17.400 The ship is going down.

00:52:19.240 He's working his ass off to sling the water out.

00:52:22.120 He's got people right next to him that are drilling holes.

00:52:25.000 People on the other side, drilling holes.

00:52:27.620 Peter's on the other side.

00:52:28.680 And then the animal people that he met and the other con men, shysters and losers that

00:52:33.260 got locked up, they're drilling holes.

00:52:35.320 And Joe's back there going, can't be that bad.

00:52:37.800 He's got a bucket.

00:52:39.160 He's going crazy.

00:52:40.120 Slinging it over the side.

00:52:41.520 Doesn't even realize that it sunk until they closed that big metal door behind him.

00:52:46.700 Cha-ching.

00:52:47.100 Should Joe Exotic be in prison?

00:52:54.060 I would guess that certainly a portion of the stuff that they say he did wrong, he did

00:53:00.520 some of it.

00:53:01.460 I would not have been shocked if they gave him time served.

00:53:05.360 Right?

00:53:05.520 That's what I thought.

00:53:06.080 Well, it might even be there because he sat there for a long time being locked up without

00:53:09.960 being guilty of anything, which always seems strange when that happened.

00:53:14.260 So he's locked up all that time.

00:53:15.880 He's suffering.

00:53:16.640 He's not the healthiest guy.

00:53:18.200 And he's feeling bad in there.

00:53:20.560 And I thought some people would go, I'm shocked that he got 22 years.

00:53:24.700 I think it's a sign of the times of just, you know, people saying that he's gone really

00:53:33.160 too far, that the things that he did wrong are too big.

00:53:36.520 But I'm really not sure that they were near as big as other criminals in our system, many

00:53:41.960 of whom are even politicians we elected and put in office that I think cross the line far

00:53:47.760 more heinous than anything that Joe's done.

00:53:51.540 And they all, they float by.

00:53:52.920 So the legal system is really hard.

00:53:54.580 I think if Joe was had top notch attorney, but it's been a few million dollars on his

00:53:59.500 defense, his sentence would have been far lighter.

00:54:04.780 When, when you look, when you look back at your time, obviously as a, as a cat owner, as

00:54:11.680 a, you know, an animalologist, I don't know all the best words a lot of times, but when

00:54:16.580 you look back at your time, you know, um, you know, interacting with wildlife, uh, what

00:54:23.000 is something that you want to be remembered for when your time here in this realm is done?

00:54:28.080 How should people remember, remember Doc Antle?

00:54:31.260 And have the, the, our place that we're trying to hold in Sumatra declared a national park.

00:54:40.320 Hey doc.

00:54:41.560 Yeah, there you are.

00:54:42.800 Okay, great.

00:54:43.380 We just have one more minute and we'll be all finished.

00:54:45.200 Thank you so much.

00:54:47.520 I'm all good.

00:54:48.340 I got all the time in the world.

00:54:49.600 I just, I'm sorry to be, I don't know if it's happening on your end and my end.

00:54:53.140 I think it's gone both ways.

00:54:54.800 It's probably the government.

00:54:58.140 It could be the government doesn't want us talking.

00:55:00.140 Who knows?

00:55:01.480 It's Carol.

00:55:03.280 That's what the hell it is.

00:55:04.740 Hey, big, Hey cat.

00:55:05.920 Hey, cats and kittens.

00:55:07.120 This is Carol from big cat rescue.

00:55:08.760 Oh my God.

00:55:10.900 My God.

00:55:11.880 Spooky.

00:55:12.340 Isn't she?

00:55:13.360 Every time I hear it.

00:55:14.480 Did you ever meet her husband that is, that is a deceased or previous husband?

00:55:18.720 No, sir.

00:55:19.280 Never met him.

00:55:19.960 I'm not, not there.

00:55:20.740 And they were in such a different, strange world of buying and selling pets.

00:55:24.300 You know, I was zoo guy.

00:55:25.360 They're out there in the pet trade and they just took their pet trade and flipped it into

00:55:29.600 rescue.

00:55:30.380 Took all the animals that they already had.

00:55:32.520 And so we rescued these and just made it all part of a big old scam that ran along.

00:55:38.480 And I think they picked up a few animals in need here and there, but I think a whole

00:55:42.700 lot of it is a massive misrepresentation.

00:55:45.500 There's 12 animals there.

00:55:46.940 12 cats, 12 big cats.

00:55:49.100 It seems like it's interesting.

00:55:50.380 Yeah.

00:55:50.780 Like since they run on donation instead of selling the service, they're able to provide

00:55:56.160 the donation, I guess the service for free because they run on donation.

00:56:00.300 And they run as a zoo.

00:56:01.580 I mean, you can pay 30, 40 bucks at expensive zoo.

00:56:05.120 You can pay 30 or 40 bucks and go through there.

00:56:07.900 Tens of thousands of people visit the facility every year and pay the ads often say the world's

00:56:14.800 greatest collection of big cats, but it's, it's not 10% of what happens here.

00:56:19.600 It's not even close.

00:56:20.380 We have all of the big cats here.

00:56:22.900 She has just a couple of lonely tigers and a lonely lion and just a few things.

00:56:27.600 Yeah.

00:56:27.700 And a donkey.

00:56:28.280 Somebody said it's one of them is a donkey in a costume.

00:56:30.600 I heard so a lot of fictional animals there.

00:56:34.060 Um, who's the real tiger King doc?

00:56:36.980 Well, if there is a tiger King, you know, uh, I don't know who he is.

00:56:43.300 You know, I mean, I am a tiger guy and I've always been the tiger guy trying to keep these

00:56:49.680 incredible creatures at their peak of health to be a baseline to save them as the future

00:56:56.600 is coming along because there are just none left.

00:56:58.960 I virtually don't know anybody left that I could have any relationship with even barter,

00:57:05.420 sell, borrow, move tigers back and forth with that business has faded in America.

00:57:11.220 And even in the zoos, it's not profitable.

00:57:15.100 It's not there.

00:57:15.680 And tigers are really on a crash course of not enough genetics and not enough places to

00:57:21.720 go even in North America.

00:57:23.400 And that incredible blither that there are more tigers in America than there are in the

00:57:29.320 wild is a hundred percent a lie.

00:57:31.860 There may be a thousand or so tigers in America, but there are certainly not 5,000.

00:57:39.740 There are hundreds of tigers in private zoos.

00:57:42.580 There are maybe dozens of people in the entire country that would have a tiger somehow and

00:57:50.500 not have a federal oversight USDA zoo license called an exhibitor's license.

00:57:57.340 It's unheard of.

00:57:58.700 So a lot of misleading information, a lot of misleading information in the documentary.

00:58:02.900 Oh, endless misleading information about the stats of big cats and how, where they are and

00:58:07.640 that there's, that there's somehow a risk of first responders.

00:58:11.080 Where the heck is it?

00:58:12.040 If there's 10,000 of them hidden out there, you'd hear about it all day long.

00:58:17.360 You know, if they were really out there and you'd, you'd know people still, especially

00:58:21.600 in rural, the rural South and places that would have a tiger.

00:58:25.120 I passed a law in South Carolina preventing people from having pet big cats, great apes

00:58:31.060 and bears, just because there was such a hassle.

00:58:34.100 Everybody always said, man, that state is wide open.

00:58:36.440 They're just buying and selling and trading tigers.

00:58:38.200 We passed a law that gave complete exemption to everybody to be able, if you had one, you're

00:58:44.820 exempt.

00:58:45.580 You got to register.

00:58:46.600 If you got grandfathered in with that animal, you can keep it until it dies.

00:58:50.180 You can't ever get another one.

00:58:51.560 Went to every sheriff, every law enforcement person all across the state.

00:58:54.760 We passed that law in January of 18.

00:58:58.180 How many tigers, lions, bears showed up?

00:59:00.720 Zero.

00:59:01.780 Wow.

00:59:02.260 Nobody showed up because there were none in the state.

00:59:05.420 And there was at least one somewhere.

00:59:08.300 Of course there isn't because no one does that.

00:59:11.260 It was more popular in the 80s and 90s.

00:59:13.620 But by the new millennium, it's faded.

00:59:15.800 It's all over Texas.

00:59:17.700 Absolutely not true.

00:59:19.360 Big Cat Census was done about 14 years ago, and they only found 17 unregistered tigers

00:59:25.740 in the state of Texas.

00:59:27.000 I believe that.

00:59:27.640 That sounds more realistic.

00:59:29.680 You know, thousands is a crazy thing.

00:59:32.160 They eat a lot.

00:59:33.280 I eat 1,000 pounds every day.

00:59:35.200 You can eat at least 10 to 15 pounds of good meat every day.

00:59:38.580 That's a burden.

00:59:39.800 That's a hell of a freezer.

00:59:41.180 That's all kinds of things in your life.

00:59:42.660 That's me.

00:59:43.320 Doc, I appreciate it so much.

00:59:47.300 I feel like I learned a lot about exactly kind of what's going on in the tiger community.

00:59:51.320 I definitely get a stronger perception of the business, of how you guys are more of like

00:59:55.300 a small business, and how across all facets of business in America, a lot of small businesses

01:00:00.480 are really being shut down or being, you know, cornered in by laws and this and that.

01:00:05.540 One last question.

01:00:06.320 Do you have to spend a lot of money in attorney fees every year to kind of keep yourself open?

01:00:11.220 I would say I don't spend near as much in attorney's fees as we do in people helping

01:00:18.040 us talk to decision makers, policy makers in Washington, trying to get people to understand

01:00:24.040 lobbying of, you could call it that, just trying to get out there, make the message happen.

01:00:29.380 I go to Washington numerous times.

01:00:31.160 It was right there in Tiger King because I go and I hold meetings and I go to benefits

01:00:36.060 and I go places and I speak to people about the incredible importance of tigers being

01:00:41.660 alive into the next century, into the next millennium, you'd hope.

01:00:46.000 And I'm there, you know, and Carol was on there going, yeah, he beat us to the office.

01:00:50.720 Those people don't want to see her walk through the door and hear some whiny baloney about her

01:00:55.880 version of big cats.

01:00:57.660 It's a great big misrepresentation.

01:01:00.200 I'm there to tell you the truth.

01:01:01.500 This is an incredibly precious character that needs to exist.

01:01:05.940 Your right to touch him is incredible.

01:01:08.380 Here you go.

01:01:09.520 I brought tigers to Congress, had them walking through the hall of Congress, meeting everybody.

01:01:14.780 And the congressmen were so excited.

01:01:17.060 They had 700 people in line one day.

01:01:19.640 They said, you can ask Big Bono Cain.

01:01:22.260 Bono didn't get a fraction of the blast that the Tiger Cubs got because everybody is in love

01:01:28.580 with them by just contact, by idea.

01:01:32.080 A tiger is a blessing.

01:01:33.740 It's an incredible character.

01:01:35.800 And if somebody wants to change anything about it, change something about how the regulations

01:01:41.960 are about care and what happens to them that you could enforce different rules.

01:01:48.120 But because of that is exactly how the other wild character that you see in Tiger King,

01:01:54.560 Tim Stark.

01:01:56.020 Oh, yeah.

01:01:56.420 They talk more with them about care.

01:01:58.680 They say his care wasn't proper.

01:02:00.520 Because they say his care wasn't proper, he doesn't get to have tigers anymore.

01:02:04.740 That's not uncommon.

01:02:06.440 It's far more common that they take people's right to have a tiger than that they somehow

01:02:11.520 say, oh, yeah, those guys just can keep them.

01:02:14.020 It's just not done.

01:02:15.480 But the crazies are trying to say that they're everywhere.

01:02:19.560 They're hiding out here and there.

01:02:20.460 Yeah, they always do that about everything.

01:02:22.340 It's about everything.

01:02:23.800 And they're everywhere.

01:02:24.540 They're everywhere.

01:02:25.360 Yeah.

01:02:25.580 Yeah.

01:02:26.320 They're everywhere.

01:02:27.260 They're all, yeah, everything's every, it's everywhere.

01:02:29.440 It's in your house.

01:02:31.060 Exactly.

01:02:31.680 Yeah.

01:02:31.860 There's sex trafficking in your backyard.

01:02:33.860 I'm like, no, they're not.

01:02:34.940 I don't have a yard.

01:02:36.840 It's always, it's everywhere.

01:02:39.480 They love it.

01:02:40.380 People love to be fanatic, right?

01:02:42.480 They really do, man.

01:02:43.780 It's a popular notion.

01:02:45.680 And that extremism was focused on us a bit throughout the show.

01:02:51.000 If there's somehow, some way, something inappropriate going on, which is why they attack us of the

01:02:56.600 silliest dang fronts, that somehow it's got something to do with a cult.

01:03:02.440 Like, there's no ritual here.

01:03:04.720 We're not brought incense.

01:03:06.060 We're not out there doing anything.

01:03:07.900 There's no one applying to work in some way that's inappropriate or unique.

01:03:12.560 The only thing that I'm culty about is I believe I stretch and do yoga and I get hurt less.

01:03:19.660 And when I have a giant tiger jump on me, if I have stretched that morning, it hurts a lot less than if I haven't stretched that morning.

01:03:26.860 The edge of the cult there is yoga for impact of tigers climbing on you.

01:03:34.420 You know, and that's it.

01:03:35.260 And Cody does the same thing.

01:03:36.400 You want to be warmed up and ready.

01:03:38.360 Going out and having a great time with a tiger is still a boxing match.

01:03:42.400 It is very extreme.

01:03:44.580 So it's just that crazy stuff.

01:03:47.200 Well, we love, look, I appreciate the time.

01:03:48.820 And I hope to, as soon as America's back up and running and I'm over in South Carolina,

01:03:53.080 I want to come through and take a tour of the facility and get to meet you guys in person.

01:03:57.140 I appreciate the behind the scenes.

01:03:58.680 This gives me a better interpretation kind of of what's going on over there.

01:04:02.220 And just kind of a little bit more knowledge or, you know, your point of view of what's happening in the tiger world.

01:04:06.900 And just want to thank you and thank Cody as well.

01:04:10.860 All good stuff.

01:04:11.840 Yep.

01:04:12.080 And Bali and Sagreeva, the Chimp Brothers, to come out and say hi.

01:04:15.560 Oh, yeah, definitely, man.

01:04:16.620 I think you've got a couple of chimps waiting on dinner.

01:04:18.500 So I don't want to keep you guys all night.

01:04:22.100 But I'll certainly encourage our viewers and listeners to get over there and check out your facility when it's back open.

01:04:27.640 And thank you guys for taking care of those animals over there.

01:04:31.220 Thank you very much.

01:04:32.060 Coming here is like no place on earth.

01:04:33.820 Love to see you.

01:04:34.500 Come on.

01:04:35.160 All right.

01:04:35.420 We'll do it, Doc.

01:04:36.120 Cody, be good, bro.

01:04:37.100 Gang, man.

01:04:38.240 Thank you.

01:04:39.660 Cheers, man.

01:04:40.180 Thank you.

01:04:41.640 Now I'm just floating on the breeze

01:04:44.860 And I feel I'm falling like these leaves

01:04:47.820 I must be cornerstone

01:04:51.160 Oh, but when I reach that ground

01:04:55.720 I'll share this peace of mind

01:04:57.880 I found I can feel it in my bones

01:05:02.020 But it's gonna take a little time

01:05:07.700 For me to set that parking brake

01:05:11.480 And let myself unwind

01:05:14.320 Shine that light on me

01:05:18.320 I'll sit and tell you my stories

01:05:24.000 Shine on me

01:05:29.000 And I will find a song

01:05:33.220 I will sing it

01:05:34.760 Just for me

01:05:36.620 And now I've been moving way too fast

01:05:44.160 On a runaway train

01:05:45.560 With a heavy load of power

01:05:47.300 Ladies and gentlemen, I'm Jonathan Kite

01:05:53.120 And welcome to Kite Club

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This Past Weekend with Theo Von - March 30, 2020

Tiger King's Bhagavan ＂Doc＂ Antle ｜ This Past Weekend w⧸ 271

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