Timcast IRL - Tim Pool - Nick Fuentes NEARLY ASSASSINATED, Man Took 3 Lives, MANGIONE EFFECT w-Luke Beasley | Timcast IRL

00:00:21.000 This is a wild story, ladies and gentlemen.

00:00:24.000 Look, the first thing I want to say is it looks like the government shutdown is going to happen.

00:00:27.000 We don't know.

00:00:28.000 Maybe Congress will do something tomorrow.

00:00:29.000 But the continuing resolution failed.

00:00:31.000 And so I believe the deadline is Saturday.

00:00:33.000 It looks like the government will shut down at least for a month.

00:00:36.000 Who knows?

00:00:37.000 While the story is very big, we actually were struggling with This being the big political story, do we want to lead with this or something substantially more shocking and I think worrisome?

00:00:47.000 And that is a man went to the home of Nick Fuentes and it is apparent that he had the intention to kill him.

00:00:54.000 And I guess only by sheer luck, Nick survived.

00:00:58.000 The individual had already killed three people, it is believed, and broke into a neighboring home and killed two dogs before being apprehended by the police.

00:01:06.000 My understanding is the man lost his life in this conflict.

00:01:08.000 But there is a video from Nick Fuentes' ring doorbell camera, as well as the body camera footage being released from when this woman went to Nick's house.

00:01:16.000 We had this conversation last night in the members only.

00:01:20.000 Based on watching the body camera footage, it appears that Fuentes is 100% in the right in defending himself when this went down.

00:01:27.000 Not that we like any of it, nor do we want any of this to happen.

00:01:30.000 But especially now seeing this footage of a man walking up with a crossbow and what appears to be a bolt gun.

00:01:36.000 Yelling, yo, Nick, after having already killed several people.

00:01:39.000 This is terrifying stuff.

00:01:41.000 And the question now is, is this the Mangione effect?

00:01:44.000 Now, I want to stress, Luigi Mangione is only accused.

00:01:46.000 He's not been proven to have done anything.

00:01:48.000 But with the open public support for assassination of perceived enemies, to see this attempt on Nick Fontes' life is actually rather terrifying.

00:01:59.000 We are hoping and praying this stuff doesn't escalate.

00:02:01.000 And as much as, look...

00:02:04.000 Whatever you think about Fuentes, a lot of people don't like him.

00:02:06.000 That's neither here nor there. 0.82

00:02:08.000 The man is allowed to troll.

00:02:09.000 He's allowed to have opinions.

00:02:10.000 He's allowed to make jokes.

00:02:11.000 He's allowed to be a nasty guy if that's what he wants to do.

00:02:14.000 And he has a right to live in peace without this kind of nonsense happening.

00:02:17.000 I'm going to say that we've got to talk about this and, of course, the continued resolutions failure.

00:02:22.000 We also need to talk about the FAA shutting down airspace for drones in New Jersey, threatening deadly force if they perceive an imminent threat.

00:02:30.000 So this is going to be wild.

00:02:31.000 Before we get started, my friends, head over to castbrew.com and buy coffee.

00:02:35.000 A Two Weeks Till Christmas available now.

00:02:38.000 And when you buy a bag of Two Weeks Till Christmas gingerbread castbrew coffee, you get this wonderful picture of Phil Labonte of All That Remains as Santa Claus.

00:02:47.000 Or, would you call him Shredder Claws?

00:02:49.000 Shredder Claws, yeah.

00:02:50.000 Shreddy Claws. 0.99

00:02:50.000 Shredder Claws. 0.99

00:02:51.000 Shreddy Claws. 0.99

00:02:52.000 There you go.

00:02:53.000 But also, head over to Boonies HQ and pick up your right-to-arm bears skateboard. 0.77

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00:02:58.000 If you believe that large bears should be wearing flannel shirts, hats, and carrying shotguns, then the right-to-arm bears skateboard is the skateboard for you.

00:03:06.000 Some of them are quickly selling out.

00:03:07.000 This has been a particularly popular board.

00:03:09.000 But of course we have Step on Snack and Find Out as well.

00:03:12.000 We've sold like 600 of these boards.

00:03:14.000 It's pretty wild.

00:03:14.000 So you can check that out at BooneysHQ.com.

00:03:16.000 Also, go to TimCast.com.

00:03:17.000 Click Join Us.

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00:03:22.000 Really do mean it.

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00:03:27.000 We will not be having a members-only uncensored show because tomorrow, first thing in the morning, we have to fly to Phoenix for AmFest.

00:03:34.000 So forgive us, but we will have a good show today because smash that like button, subscribe to the channel.

00:03:40.000 Joining us tonight to talk about this and everything else is Luke Beasley.

00:03:43.000 Good to be with you.

00:03:44.000 Absolutely.

00:03:44.000 Who are you?

00:03:45.000 What do you do?

00:03:46.000 I am a liberal political commentator.

00:03:48.000 Main platform is YouTube, and I do this but from a different perspective.

00:03:52.000 Right on.

00:03:52.000 We here at TimCast, we're disparaging some of these other younger liberals before the show.

00:03:57.000 But we like Luke because he has a good conversation.

00:03:59.000 We were having a good conversation before, and so I appreciate you being here.

00:04:02.000 And then there's another Luke here.

00:04:03.000 That's a good name.

00:04:04.000 Welcome back, beautiful and amazing human beings.

00:04:07.000 My name is Lukardowski here.

00:04:09.000 If we are Change the Dark, you're proud.

00:04:10.000 Florida and Polish, man, as of course, things are crazy, but they're also incredible.

00:04:14.000 We're talking about getting rid of food dyes, seed oils, fluoride, the income tax, as we're also going to be exposing Diddy, the Epstein list, as Twitter just showed it to be more powerful than all the lobbyists in Washington, D.C., I'm selling limited edition hats for my lawyers on Save Luke.

00:04:41.000 Great hats.

00:04:42.000 There's only 100 of them.

00:04:43.000 SaveLukeNow.com.

00:04:43.000 You can get them now.

00:04:44.000 We appreciate your support.

00:04:45.000 But overall, I'm still majorly white-pilled.

00:04:48.000 I'm very excited.

00:04:49.000 And I think we are in for a hell of a ride.

00:04:52.000 And between now and January 20th, I think there's going to be psyops upon psyops.

00:04:56.000 We're seeing a cornered Intel agent go crazy right now.

00:05:00.000 And they're only going to go crazy in the next few days.

00:05:03.000 So strap on.

00:05:05.000 Luke, it's so nice to see you.

00:05:05.000 Wow.

00:05:06.000 My name is...

00:05:07.000 So good to see you, too.

00:05:08.000 I'm a field reporter at...

00:05:09.000 Neocon.

00:05:11.000 War mongerer. 0.80

00:05:12.000 Neocon. 0.94

00:05:14.000 Bloodsucker. 1.00

00:05:15.000 Tim Kast, it's good to be here.

00:05:15.000 Over here.

00:05:16.000 Luke, it's good to see you.

00:05:18.000 You guys look like you could be related, both siblings or something.

00:05:18.000 Both Lukes.

00:05:21.000 Phil, what's up?

00:05:22.000 My name is Phil Labonte.

00:05:22.000 Hello, everybody.

00:05:23.000 I'm the lead singer of the heavy metal band All That Remains.

00:05:25.000 I'm an anti-communist and a counter-revolutionary.

00:05:27.000 Tim.

00:05:28.000 Actually, Carter's here.

00:05:29.000 Oh, Carter's here, yes.

00:05:31.000 What's up?

00:05:31.000 I'm not muted.

00:05:33.000 I'm so used to like, Surge, not wanting to talk.

00:05:33.000 What's up?

00:05:35.000 I know, I know.

00:05:35.000 Well, I figured it's the last show of the year.

00:05:37.000 Whatever, you know, I'd love to be on the convo.

00:05:37.000 I apologize.

00:05:39.000 Let's get into it, Tim.

00:05:40.000 Carter's pressing the buttons.

00:05:41.000 Okay, man, let's start with this tweet from Nick Fuentes.

00:05:43.000 There is video, in fact.

00:05:45.000 Nick Fuentes tweeted at 2.05pm today, Tragically, the gunman broke into a neighbor's home to evade police and killed two of their dogs.

00:06:14.000 While heartbreaking, it could have been so unimaginably worse.

00:06:17.000 God have mercy.

00:06:18.000 Doxing is not a game.

00:06:20.000 This nihilistic lynch mob behavior must end before anyone else is killed.

00:06:23.000 I will now have to uproot my life and relocate.

00:06:26.000 While I can handle whatever comes to my front door, it is irresponsible to accept my neighbors with young families to share that burden. 1.00

00:06:32.000 In the meantime, I will have to contract 24-hour security to protect myself and my property.

00:06:36.000 If anybody would like to contribute to defray the cost, $13,000 a week.

00:06:41.000 Thank you.

00:06:50.000 We have the story from NBC5 Chicago.

00:06:52.000 They say far-right influencer claims Holm was among those targeted by homicide suspect.

00:06:58.000 It's actually very nuts that this is how they're framing it.

00:07:02.000 They say far-right influencer Nick Fuentes said he believes his Berwyn home was among those targeted by a man suspected in a triple homicide who was fatally shot by police late Wednesday night following a home invasion on Fuentes' block.

00:07:15.000 Can you just look at that paragraph?

00:07:16.000 So a guy who killed several people went to Nick's home with a weapon, calling out his name, then fled when the police arrived, broke into a house, killed two dogs and was killed by police.

00:07:26.000 They're saying only Funtest believes.

00:07:28.000 I just want to let NBC5 know there is no such thing as defaming the dead.

00:07:33.000 You can just say what everyone is thinking.

00:07:35.000 Now, there is actually a video of this posted by Nick.

00:07:38.000 Where the man is on his doorstep with a crossbow and what appears...

00:07:43.000 I don't know if it's a pistol.

00:07:44.000 They're saying it's a pistol.

00:07:45.000 It could be a bolt-type weapon with...

00:07:47.000 I don't know.

00:07:47.000 You guys might know better than me.

00:07:49.000 Fuentes says, This is terrifying.

00:08:04.000 Look, I'm just going to say what everybody's thinking.

00:08:06.000 There's a lot of people who don't like Nick Fuentes, okay?

00:08:08.000 And I don't want to get into this purity test of who Nick Fuentes is and what his opinions are, because right now the issue is an individual who has opinions on the internet and trolls...

00:08:21.000 Someone tried to kill him.

00:08:22.000 This is not okay.

00:08:23.000 And we need this to de-escalate.

00:08:23.000 It's never okay.

00:08:25.000 But my fear is that this would be the Mangione effect.

00:08:28.000 Nick's opinion doesn't matter here.

00:08:30.000 It could be someone on the left and we would be acting the same way like we would be right now, as of course it is awful and horrible what happened right now.

00:08:37.000 And sadly, you know, the left did lose politically.

00:08:40.000 And I've been warning about this, especially since Donald Trump won the presidential election.

00:08:45.000 The left overwhelmingly doesn't have a lot of political solutions.

00:08:47.000 They do overwhelmingly have a major mental health problem that predominantly a lot of people who believe in their larger ideology do suffer from.

00:08:56.000 So this is something that I think has been in the works.

00:08:58.000 I think the Mangione effect is real.

00:09:00.000 I think there's a reason he's being carried out like he's Bain.

00:09:03.000 I think there's a reason there's a lot of epithets and there's so much lore around this particular story, as I believe there's a larger psyop happening here in order to gaslight frame and to build up this larger notion that if you can't solve your problems politically, you could just do it physically.

00:09:17.000 And that right there is somewhere where we have to put the stop on it immediately.

00:09:21.000 Call it out.

00:09:22.000 And I don't care if it's Nick.

00:09:23.000 I don't care if it's Rachel Maddow.

00:09:24.000 This is something that you don't do.

00:09:26.000 And this is something that could desperately escalate the situation towards grand, dangerous proportions that we don't want to be living in.

00:09:32.000 Yeah, I was confused by some of the stuff you said connecting to, like, left-wing ideology, but I agree that regardless of who it is, regardless of how reprehensible I find Nick Quintez, the solution is not violence.

00:09:43.000 This is something I've articulated a lot in the wake of the assassination attempts against Trump to my audience, which is that if our principles, if our pro-democratic principles Liberal principles include nonviolent solutions to these things, then obviously people trying to take violent solutions to disagreements is exactly against our principles.

00:10:02.000 But that is the left.

00:10:03.000 What's the left?

00:10:04.000 The use of use of violence.

00:10:06.000 How do you mean?

00:10:07.000 So, for instance, at like all direct actions, they have something called the diversity of tactics, which is a direct reference to individuals left aligned, covering their faces and engaging in violence.

00:10:20.000 So, the Mangione effect.

00:10:21.000 This is not a right-wing phenomenon.

00:10:23.000 It's not like Bible-thumping conservatives going around calling for death and murder.

00:10:26.000 There are people selling products who are outright of progressive or left ideology advocating and celebrating and outright saying they want to engage in kernel relations with Luigi Mangione.

00:10:37.000 So, and that's something I've been speaking out against among—it's hard to say my own side because I think we talked about this last time I was on, but—or the episode's going to come out tomorrow— I agree.

00:10:53.000 across the two sides you portray as the entire side, right?

00:10:56.000 But I agree, people celebrating Mangione when obviously what he tried to do is not the solution to the very problem separate from just the individual immorality in trying to murder somebody.

00:11:06.000 Even the people saying that's okay because of healthcare problems seem to misunderstand how we would even solve those more systemic issues.

00:11:12.000 But I did make the point a bunch of times last time, again on the episode that's coming out tomorrow.

00:11:17.000 Sometimes we'll say in a general sense that regardless of political views, we all think violence would be wrong to solve those political views.

00:11:27.000 But then it becomes a political point you're making, like, oh, liberals, Democrats, that cohort of people, regardless of where they stand on this issue, they're a part of this ideological problem.

00:11:36.000 And last time I was on, we went over this, which is that political violence actually is far more common among right-wing ideologies.

00:11:44.000 I would take issue with saying Democrats, because I don't feel like your run-of-the-mill Democrats are the type of person that would be the type of people that Tim's referencing.

00:11:58.000 Yeah, but you kind of make it like it's a left thing.

00:12:00.000 I'm on your side here, man.

00:12:00.000 Yeah, it is.

00:12:02.000 Hold on, let me get through my coin, man.

00:12:03.000 I'm on your side here.

00:12:04.000 Statistically, that's not even true.

00:12:05.000 And you're both wrong.

00:12:06.000 There's wanted posters for CEOs in New York City.

00:12:09.000 There's people selling out cards of all these CEOs that are on their target hit list.

00:12:13.000 Let's try something else.

00:12:15.000 That's wrong.

00:12:15.000 You hear me, though?

00:12:16.000 That's wrong for people to do that.

00:12:17.000 When was the last time you saw a right-wing protest?

00:12:19.000 A right-wing protest?

00:12:20.000 Yeah, like right-wingers going out in the street waving flags.

00:12:22.000 That's what I'm saying.

00:12:23.000 But I'm saying that when this is actually more thoroughly analyzed systemically, right-wing ideologies are more responsible for political violence, which doesn't make the instances of left-wing political violence more promoting that.

00:12:33.000 Was that done by the FBI? No, no, no, no, no, no.

00:12:35.000 Let's just try this down.

00:12:36.000 Actually, independent groups as well.

00:12:37.000 What would you define as like a right-wing ideology?

00:12:40.000 Yeah.

00:12:41.000 I mean, I think we can—things that ideologically across the political spectrum are associated with the right wing.

00:12:48.000 Like you're saying right wing groups statistically are more likely to be violent.

00:12:48.000 But what does that mean?

00:12:52.000 No, like whenever they study acts of violence that had a political motivation— It's more commonly, by a pretty large margin, people who associate it with right-wing ideology.

00:12:52.000 What does that mean?

00:13:02.000 And what is a right-wing ideology?

00:13:03.000 Yeah, we could pull up the studies to specifically define it because I don't want to botch it.

00:13:06.000 How would you define left-wing violence?

00:13:08.000 So, in the United States, it's actually interesting because right-wing ideologies tend to just be disparate.

00:13:13.000 So what does that really mean?

00:13:15.000 Well, right can refer to anarcho-capitalists, certainly don't agree with white supremacists, but in the media and these studies you're referring to, they claim they're the same group.

00:13:23.000 But that's what I'm saying.

00:13:24.000 Like if you have an anti-government from a right-wing perspective or super racist from a right-wing perspective, we're not going to say that's – now we can categorize all of the right as that.

00:13:32.000 I wouldn't do that.

00:13:33.000 But you can with the left.

00:13:33.000 You'll do the same thing with the left, which is to say that a communist who wants to see a CEO killed – Is the same as someone who's just on the left.

00:13:43.000 It is.

00:13:43.000 Yes.

00:13:44.000 Which is ridiculous. 0.50

00:13:45.000 Because you're playing into the very...

00:13:45.000 And I can...

00:13:46.000 Let me tell you why it is.

00:13:48.000 No, no, no, but if you make that argument, you're putting people in danger in the very way that we're speaking out against here.

00:13:53.000 Because you're saying those people who want violence are an entire side now.

00:13:58.000 As opposed to making distinguishments.

00:13:59.000 We'll simplify it very easily.

00:14:00.000 If a group of white supremacists and white nationalists were out protesting, anarcho-capitalists would get into a fight with them.

00:14:06.000 So these are two supposedly right-wing groups.

00:14:08.000 That's the argument?

00:14:09.000 And there are left-wingers who get in fights with each other?

00:14:11.000 Actually, that's not true.

00:14:12.000 Left-wing groups, as I've covered these protests for a decade, they have something called the diversity of tactics.

00:14:17.000 So what you end up seeing, for instance...

00:14:19.000 You're talking about...

00:14:20.000 Yeah.

00:14:20.000 So you have liberals...

00:14:21.000 Random protesters, okay.

00:14:22.000 Then when you have liberals...

00:14:25.000 So here's how it works, and here's why you need to...

00:14:27.000 Well, I mean, maybe you don't want to accept that.

00:14:29.000 I don't care.

00:14:30.000 When you get 300 run-of-the-mill liberals who don't believe in violence...

00:14:35.000 Black bloc extremists—these are not a specific ideology.

00:14:39.000 It could be anarcho-left violent factions.

00:14:42.000 It could be tankies—specifically utilize those protests for body mass. 0.94

00:14:47.000 It's in their manifestos.

00:14:50.000 It's in their meetings.

00:14:52.000 And the liberal groups— When they're organizing—shout out to your friend Lisa Fifty and ask her about this—they tell the liberals, respect the diversity of tactics.

00:15:03.000 Now, that is something that you don't see associated with right-wing groups because— You have, like, right-wing militias exploit right-wing protests for horrible— When?

00:15:11.000 We can find particular examples.

00:15:12.000 If you don't have them, then I don't think you have an argument.

00:15:14.000 Or like an example, would you say that, and I know someone over there is going to get triggered, but because it's such a prominent one that is on the top of my head, you had people who were peacefully protesting on January 6th, and then those who went violent.

00:15:28.000 And I want to say that every single person who's MAGA now are representative...

00:15:32.000 That's not what I'm saying at all.

00:15:34.000 It sort of is.

00:15:35.000 Because you didn't have the peaceful people intervening to stop violent people.

00:15:39.000 You did, actually.

00:15:39.000 You actually didn't.

00:15:41.000 You're completely wrong.

00:15:41.000 You're wrong.

00:15:43.000 Obviously, it was not a meaningful enough effort to even assist law enforcement.

00:15:48.000 There's surveillance footage showing some of the men asking police what they can do to help.

00:15:52.000 Yeah, and I'm saying that there are left-wing protesters as well who will be speaking out against violence at left-wing protests.

00:15:58.000 I know because I've seen it.

00:15:59.000 We can talk about tendencies.

00:16:03.000 You're going to make anecdotal arguments about things you've covered, a protest, and that's why I think last time too- My guy Taylor Lorenz is not a progressive.

00:16:13.000 She's a run-of-the-mill progressive personality who said, we all want more of that on TV. Oh, she was wrong, and I spoke out against her.

00:16:20.000 So you are in the minority.

00:16:23.000 The vice president wanted more of it.

00:16:25.000 What?

00:16:26.000 Kamala Harris wanted more. 1.00

00:16:28.000 She said that people should be out in the streets.

00:16:30.000 She said that she would...

00:16:31.000 She was not saying violently.

00:16:32.000 You know that encouraging people to protest is different?

00:16:35.000 She was putting up her bail fund.

00:16:39.000 So you can't just yeah, yeah, that away.

00:16:42.000 Just like how y'all...

00:16:43.000 Again, you'll do the same thing for January 6th people, but it's not for the violent ones.

00:16:46.000 That was her argument as well.

00:16:48.000 The vice president was not putting up a bail fund.

00:16:51.000 What?

00:16:51.000 I'm saying that she was not doing that for people who would engage in violence.

00:16:54.000 She absolutely was.

00:16:55.000 Who was getting arrested?

00:16:56.000 Who was getting arrested?

00:16:57.000 All sorts of trespassing or something like that.

00:16:59.000 No.

00:17:00.000 Property-related things.

00:17:02.000 So, for instance, two people who were giving out Molotov cocktails in New York had their charges mostly reduced and nearly dropped.

00:17:11.000 So not dropped.

00:17:14.000 So, this is actually a really great quote from Kash Patel.

00:17:16.000 If you are handing out Molotov cocktails, you're talking about federal terror charges, and they reduce them to, like, parole.

00:17:21.000 Like, that's shockingly insane.

00:17:23.000 And I would have, based on if we went through the individual prosecution, probably disagreements with some of those prosecutorial decisions, but I will say again, you'll go through, and this is really, to people's feelings, compelling to a lot of folks, and cite particular examples to portray a narrative about the entire other side being violent, right?

00:17:39.000 But then we actually research it, and it's not true.

00:17:43.000 Right-wing political violence, it's just, it is.

00:17:44.000 It's made up.

00:17:45.000 It's not, yeah.

00:17:46.000 You can't even name any, you can't name an ideology and name an instance.

00:17:49.000 If someone would, you could just pull up a study.

00:17:50.000 You're going to pull up the SPLC, you're going to pull up the FBI, you're going to pull up extremely biased studies that were done by biased organizations that don't give a name about the study.

00:17:58.000 Hold on, hold on, the point is this, the point is this.

00:18:00.000 You cannot make an argument with no data.

00:18:02.000 No, the reason, tell me, I'm not the one who has access to the data.

00:18:05.000 You have a computer right there.

00:18:06.000 I want your audience to see what I'm talking about.

00:18:08.000 For sure.

00:18:08.000 Give me a source.

00:18:09.000 I'll pull it up.

00:18:10.000 All right.

00:18:10.000 Perfect.

00:18:11.000 I think in the last – are we still logged in the last document I had?

00:18:16.000 One of you will talk while I pull this up.

00:18:17.000 Should we pull up like the ADL's hate tracker map or what do they have?

00:18:22.000 That's a credible organization that doesn't lie for political purposes at all, right?

00:18:26.000 As well as the SPLC, as well as the FBI, that again, fudges data in order to come to a particular political conclusion for political reasons.

00:18:34.000 You can't believe a lot of these top institutions since they lie through their teeth.

00:18:38.000 Where can I send this?

00:18:39.000 They even lied about the statistics about violent crime in America.

00:18:43.000 Department of Criminology and Criminal Justice.

00:18:46.000 It's the ADL. University of Maryland.

00:18:48.000 And then just disparities in violence.

00:18:53.000 Keywords.

00:18:54.000 Extremist groups.

00:18:58.000 Yeah.

00:19:20.000 Is it this one?

00:19:20.000 There's been a strong presumption among many that while the left-wing and right-wing ideologies vary a great deal in content, they resemble each other in terms of their willingness to use violence to further their political agenda.

00:19:26.000 However, our analysis shows the right-wing actors are significantly more violent than left-wing actors, said Lafre, a professor in the Department of Criminology and Criminal Justice and the founding director of the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism.

00:19:41.000 So let's start with what do they define as right-wing?

00:19:48.000 Yeah, look and do it.

00:19:49.000 So this is an opinion article.

00:19:53.000 How do they define...

00:19:54.000 It's reporting on a study they did.

00:19:56.000 There's a press release.

00:19:57.000 Yeah, UMD-led studies reporting on that.

00:19:59.000 So let's start here.

00:20:00.000 My argument is based on, let's start with what an ideology is.

00:20:04.000 No, but see, you keep going back to provocative examples of individual acts of violence.

00:20:08.000 The reason, when you start listing off instances, I know because I've been in these debates before, how people react when I give you particular examples.

00:20:15.000 It becomes about that example.

00:20:17.000 And see, that's the only thing that you could bring up or whatever.

00:20:19.000 I don't want to do that.

00:20:20.000 I would rather just make it about the data.

00:20:21.000 Let's analyze level-headedly and let's also acknowledge...

00:20:25.000 This disagreement doesn't take away from opposing individual acts of violence.

00:20:28.000 So what left-aligned groups do is say that everything outside of us is right-wing, and then they're— You're just asserting that without any data at all, or any— I just asked you how you define right-wing, and you couldn't do it.

00:20:38.000 I want to make sure that we're accurate to the studies that I'm referring to.

00:20:41.000 You have a report on it that I'm sure helps to specify that.

00:20:45.000 And if you would find some effort that we're misdefining types of violence, then I'd love to explore that.

00:20:52.000 I think there might be a little bit of missing the forest for the trees here, although I would say in the study earlier it said Islamist protests might be responsible for more violence than left or right protests.

00:21:02.000 I think we're— It actually does.

00:21:04.000 Far and wide have received the most research and policy attention, especially singled out for the deadly attacks, blah, blah, blah.

00:21:10.000 I mean, that's not surprising.

00:21:11.000 I think we're coming on a culture of people and extremists that who would be okay with political violence and we're seeing this kind of culture of assassinations come up, I think, more and more in our culture.

00:21:21.000 But just really quick, can you name any other political violence on the right other than J6? He just listed off a bunch of examples.

00:21:29.000 I listed a couple of groups, the three...

00:21:30.000 No, no, no, no, no, no.

00:21:31.000 Can you name it again?

00:21:32.000 Hold on, guys, guys.

00:21:33.000 I'm going to do this.

00:21:34.000 I'm going to do this.

00:21:36.000 Here's how it's defined.

00:21:38.000 This is the ADL's heat map tracker for violent extremism.

00:21:42.000 Right-wing, white supremacy. 0.96

00:21:43.000 Right-wing, white supremacist. 0.98

00:21:45.000 Neo-Nazism. 0.96

00:21:46.000 Right-wing, anti-government.

00:21:47.000 Right-wing, other.

00:21:49.000 Islamist, left-wing.

00:21:50.000 Right-wing, anti-government.

00:21:51.000 Right-wing, political, unknown other.

00:21:54.000 Where's left-wing, anti-government?

00:21:56.000 It's not affection.

00:21:57.000 Why is white supremacy and anti-government both considered the same thing?

00:22:00.000 Oh, no, no, but left-wing only has one category. 0.64

00:22:03.000 You can maybe hover over the I to get more information, but it's specifying between the different types of right-wing.

00:22:10.000 Yeah, white supremacy and anti-government are two totally different things, and left-wingers can be anti-government too.

00:22:16.000 Of course, of course.

00:22:17.000 So then why call anti-government right-wing choice?

00:22:19.000 Well, like if there's an anti-government leftist who attacks a right-winger for a political reason, that would be categorized under left-wing violence.

00:22:26.000 So right-wing, what defines someone who is then anti-government solely?

00:22:31.000 Why would that be labeled as right-wing?

00:22:33.000 And how do you determine whether it is?

00:22:35.000 There are right-wing anti-government ideologies.

00:22:38.000 That are of a right-wing nature.

00:22:38.000 Right?

00:22:40.000 What does that mean, right-wing nature?

00:22:41.000 Like, if you have a left-wing libertarian versus a right-wing libertarian, there's differences.

00:22:46.000 I'm gonna botch if I start defining libertarianism.

00:22:48.000 Well, if you don't know, what are you arguing?

00:22:49.000 No, I'm arguing that the only research we have bolsters What percentage of professors are liberals?

00:22:57.000 But you could absolutely...

00:22:59.000 What percentage of professors are liberals?

00:23:01.000 A bunch?

00:23:02.000 95?

00:23:03.000 A bunch, I don't know.

00:23:04.000 95?

00:23:05.000 So this is the problem we have.

00:23:07.000 What?

00:23:07.000 What is going on?

00:23:09.000 Let me explain it to you.

00:23:10.000 You're just like...

00:23:11.000 He's asking a question.

00:23:12.000 I'm asking a question.

00:23:13.000 I'm not a master on how these studies and methodologies work me down.

00:23:13.000 No, no, I get that.

00:23:17.000 But your only evidence is I saw some violence.

00:23:20.000 That's sophistry.

00:23:20.000 No, no, hold on.

00:23:21.000 I didn't say my only evidence was me making a question.

00:23:23.000 Okay, so then what's something not anecdotal that substantiates your argument?

00:23:27.000 Which portion of my argument?

00:23:29.000 What are you talking about?

00:23:29.000 Yeah, so instead of just individually, as I'm doing, yeah, against this violence, you're making it about a left-wing ideology.

00:23:36.000 Yeah, let's go to like the RNC protest in 2008 where a bunch of guys got arrested for having firebombs.

00:23:40.000 They were left-wing individuals.

00:23:41.000 The way that was organized was that the moderate good Democrats that you're referring to intentionally organized what they call green zone, yellow zone, red zone.

00:23:49.000 The red zone actors were people who are intending on using extreme extreme violence, including lethal force, and they needed the green zone individuals to provide the mass bodies to hide from police.

00:23:58.000 I'll give an example from something.

00:24:00.000 So that's an actual incident that occurred again.

00:24:02.000 And so this is I'm a regular old Democrat.

00:24:04.000 I'm not far left.

00:24:04.000 I'm not a socialist.

00:24:05.000 I'm not a socialist.

00:24:05.000 I'm coming to protest Republicans.

00:24:07.000 You're doing it again.

00:24:08.000 That's just a random example.

00:24:10.000 I don't get caught up in individual provocative anecdotes.

00:24:13.000 I would just like to look at a level-headed, zoomed-out, data-based argument.

00:24:17.000 Okay, so the problem we have here is that when you pull up the sources you claim, there are no conservative sources countering left-wing sources.

00:24:26.000 I mean, okay, then that's an interesting argument.

00:24:28.000 So if you can't define what right-wing is...

00:24:30.000 Any data that...

00:24:31.000 Stop it.

00:24:32.000 If I... Stop what?

00:24:34.000 Define it.

00:24:35.000 Stop it.

00:24:36.000 If I took the time to properly...

00:24:39.000 Write out a definition of a right-wing ideology, I could present that to you.

00:24:44.000 I don't want to get it wrong, and so I'm not going to throw something out that I didn't know I was going to define right-wing.

00:24:44.000 I can.

00:24:49.000 But what I do know is that your argument of literally saying any data that I disagree with is too liberal is like, alright, I heard that about crime increasing, I heard that about everything.

00:24:59.000 You're misrepresenting my argument.

00:25:01.000 My argument is, right now, I have pulled up the ADL as a source in your favor.

00:25:05.000 However, it has six categories of right-wing and one of left-wing.

00:25:12.000 Now, how does that make sense?

00:25:14.000 How can we quantify an ideology if there are six versions of right-wing?

00:25:19.000 Which one is actually the right wing and how come left is one parent organization?

00:25:23.000 I would actually argue the ADL sides with me in saying left wing encompasses all of it.

00:25:27.000 That means if you're a Democrat, a progressive, a communist, a tanky, an anarchist, any action you take is left wing and it's all the same ideology.

00:25:35.000 Is that the ADL's argument here?

00:25:36.000 Well, maybe that in its categorization is an easier way.

00:25:39.000 If you're a part of any of those left-wing ideologies, it's less differentiated on a political spectrum whenever they're studying it.

00:25:47.000 Maybe there's more unique organizations that specify differently.

00:25:50.000 So you as a left-wing individual are part of the same ideology as the people who want to murder CEOs?

00:25:55.000 As much as someone who's right-wing anti-government because they're a libertarian is a part of an anti-government libertarian who attacks a cop or something.

00:26:03.000 Libertarians aren't anti-government.

00:26:05.000 Well, looking at my point, I'm saying that even within the subcategorizations, I'm not going to say any right-winger who's anti-government is violent.

00:26:12.000 So the point is...

00:26:14.000 You want me to read you a definition because you really wanted it?

00:26:15.000 Of right-wing?

00:26:16.000 I just googled it.

00:26:16.000 Let's get it.

00:26:17.000 All right.

00:26:17.000 Right-wing ideology encompasses a broad range of political beliefs and values that prioritize tradition, hierarchy, individualism, and a limited role of government in certain spheres of life.

00:26:26.000 The term right-wing originates from the seating arrangements in the French Revolution's Legislative Assembly, where conservatives sat on the right side.

00:26:32.000 So is Nick Fuentes right-wing then?

00:26:34.000 He would be really, really, really far right.

00:26:35.000 But he's not an individualist.

00:26:38.000 What?

00:26:39.000 He's not an individualist.

00:26:39.000 He's not an exclusively individualist.

00:26:41.000 So let's go for it again.

00:26:43.000 So it starts with a broad range of political beliefs, just like how on the left there's a broad range of political beliefs. 1.00

00:26:48.000 I think communists are stupid, but they're on the far left. 0.99

00:26:51.000 So what's the difference between the collectivist right and the collectivist left? 1.00

00:26:55.000 Tell me.

00:26:56.000 I'm asking based on your definition.

00:26:57.000 No, I'm asking you.

00:26:58.000 You're the one who brought it up.

00:27:00.000 Do you not know?

00:27:01.000 This is something I talk about in the show literally every single day, and the question is, do you know what you're talking about?

00:27:07.000 Can you answer it yes or no?

00:27:07.000 Do I know what I'm talking about with the distinguishment of the government being...

00:27:11.000 Left collectivism versus right collectivism.

00:27:13.000 What distinguishes Nick Fuentes from Antifa?

00:27:16.000 Again, tell me.

00:27:17.000 I think you have a great explanation.

00:27:18.000 I certainly do.

00:27:19.000 I'm wondering, as you've made an argument, if you know what you're talking about.

00:27:22.000 How does that connect my argument?

00:27:24.000 Do you know the difference between various ideologies among the right and the left?

00:27:28.000 You've not been able to define it.

00:27:29.000 I actually know.

00:27:30.000 I would say I'm not a master in the distinguishments between different ideologies within a side.

00:27:35.000 Then how can you claim the right is more violent?

00:27:37.000 Oh, how can you claim the left is more violent?

00:27:39.000 Because I know many of these different factions from my field reporting expertise and the reading of the research.

00:27:45.000 Well, then what research?

00:27:46.000 So if we distinguish, say, anarcho-libertarian, anarcho-communism, anarcho-syndicalism, we can talk about tankies, we can talk about social liberals, we can talk about traditional liberals, and we can talk about the political strategies used by each of these groups, and we can talk about how they've operated over the past 20 years, a combination of news reports, political studies, and field reporting from my personal experience.

00:28:06.000 If you want to talk about right-wing groups, I can do the exact same thing, as I've done this on the ground as well, in many different countries.

00:28:11.000 My question for you is, if you're going to assert the right is more likely to be violent because you read a press release from the University of Maryland, I'm asking you to define which groups...

00:28:20.000 I dug, and I dug, and I could not find...

00:28:22.000 Any research, even that came from a right-wing institution, that gave over the cross of...

00:28:28.000 Which right-wing institution?

00:28:29.000 I'm saying I couldn't find one.

00:28:31.000 I agree.

00:28:31.000 You can't find a right-wing institution that tracks...

00:28:33.000 Oh, there are right-wing institutions that do studies and stuff.

00:28:35.000 They don't track this.

00:28:36.000 So, maybe because there's studies...

00:28:39.000 Do you see what's happening, though?

00:28:41.000 You haven't done the research, and so you're saying...

00:28:44.000 Apparently you haven't even less than me.

00:28:46.000 Sheesh.

00:28:47.000 I have, what, 20 years of field reporting on the ground?

00:28:50.000 And every single time you come back to...

00:28:53.000 Give me substance, bro.

00:28:55.000 That's what I'm asking you.

00:28:56.000 I'm saying I don't get caught up.

00:28:58.000 Especially, like, let me give you another example.

00:29:00.000 Crime has been going down.

00:29:03.000 I could go find instances of crimes taking place, right?

00:29:07.000 The FBI lied about it.

00:29:08.000 The FBI lied about that, that crime is not going down.

00:29:10.000 They actually altered and admitted those statements.

00:29:12.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:29:13.000 Crime didn't go down.

00:29:14.000 It's not even an argument.

00:29:15.000 It actually went up.

00:29:16.000 You do know that the FBI revised the crime data.

00:29:18.000 For 2022, not 2023 and 2024. Right.

00:29:20.000 We're seeing a really good trend on that front.

00:29:22.000 Do you know why...

00:29:23.000 In 2022, it was not a huge revision.

00:29:25.000 Do you know why homicide is down?

00:29:26.000 Tell me.

00:29:27.000 I'm asking you not just...

00:29:29.000 You're the one bringing up these questions.

00:29:31.000 Homicides are down because less homicides are happening.

00:29:33.000 You're wrong.

00:29:34.000 Okay, go for it.

00:29:35.000 Tell me.

00:29:35.000 They're categorizing different or something.

00:29:37.000 No, it's because of cell phones.

00:29:38.000 And improvements in medical technology as well and emergency rooms that have been able to make people...

00:29:43.000 Wait, what?

00:29:44.000 What?

00:29:45.000 No, no, no.

00:29:46.000 How is that?

00:29:47.000 Wait, that's good.

00:29:48.000 That's good.

00:29:48.000 We're dying.

00:29:49.000 It doesn't mean there aren't violence crimes.

00:29:52.000 Violent crimes at large are down over the last few years.

00:29:55.000 I think it's crime is down, but violent crime is down.

00:29:58.000 No, violent crime.

00:29:58.000 Pull it up.

00:29:59.000 Pull it up.

00:29:59.000 Violent crime is down.

00:30:00.000 Even with the revision in 2022, you have 2023, 2024. The reason why I'm not going to argue with the violent crime thing is crime has generally gone down.

00:30:07.000 And I'm not here to argue it.

00:30:08.000 The point I'm trying to make is you have a surface level tepid view of a lot of these things.

00:30:14.000 Your view of political violence is a bunch of stories and wanting me to cite specific stories of right-wing attacks.

00:30:20.000 That's just not interesting because that's not how we analyze data.

00:30:24.000 It just means you're a credentialist and you don't know.

00:30:28.000 I just gave you another good example that y'all do a lot.

00:30:30.000 Fox News will run all these provocative stories of crimes taking place.

00:30:33.000 That gives me no information, no insight as to the actual broader data.

00:30:37.000 What do I have to do with Fox News?

00:30:38.000 I just use it as an example.

00:30:39.000 Yeah, but don't say y'all and talk about Fox News.

00:30:41.000 Is there a specific story you're talking about?

00:30:43.000 It sounds like you're alluding to Lake and Riley.

00:30:46.000 When you say that specifically, Fox News is running with these stories that don't depict an accurate representation of what's going on in the world.

00:30:55.000 No, I mean, no, just stories about crimes happening.

00:30:58.000 There was a lot of focus for...

00:31:00.000 Yeah, I don't care about that.

00:31:01.000 Let me tell you why I should cover it, but they never contextualize it with here's the broader crime.

00:31:06.000 The reason why I asked you the cell phone question is that...

00:31:09.000 When you have people who do surface-level stuff, you'll listen to a YouTuber say, all Fox News is doing is pulling up a story of an individual murder and then acting like it's out of control.

00:31:21.000 That's something I refer to as a scaling problem.

00:31:23.000 We know this as social media exacerbates knowledge of issues, making us feel like it's more likely to be occurring when it's actually not.

00:31:31.000 So I have no problem saying that violent crime is down.

00:31:33.000 There's a bunch of different institutions that argue like I think shoplifting has gone way up.

00:31:37.000 So in some areas, it shows that crime is up, but then violent crime is down.

00:31:40.000 Some people say that's the crime that really matters.

00:31:41.000 The cell phone point is actually really important because when you laugh at it, you seem confused by it.

00:31:47.000 We're talking about multi-order things.

00:31:49.000 I was confused why you would bring...

00:31:50.000 I know that technological advancements impact either crime in general or how law enforcement reacts to it or how medical professionals do.

00:31:59.000 I just was laughing that you brought that up as if to refute my point about how anecdotes of crime doesn't debunk broader crime.

00:32:06.000 No, I asked you about the cell phone thing because people who are single-order thinkers can't comprehend how something like a cell phone means homicide is down.

00:32:13.000 I can comprehend it.

00:32:13.000 You...

00:32:15.000 It's actually really simple.

00:32:16.000 Although there are still stabbings, although there are still shootings, the fact that we can call 911 right away means the person is less likely to die.

00:32:23.000 So you'll end up with a larger amount of attempted murders and aggravated robberies, but less homicides because people survive.

00:32:29.000 Phones haven't changed that much in between when Trump left office and when Biden has been in office.

00:32:35.000 I'm talking about the general trend decline since the 2000s till today.

00:32:39.000 That's a lot of contributors.

00:32:40.000 That's one of them.

00:32:41.000 Cell phones is the biggest contributor.

00:32:42.000 It's actually rather surprising.

00:32:43.000 People don't think about these things.

00:32:44.000 Like one of the things that we think as to why crime has gone down is the removal of lead from gasoline.

00:32:48.000 And then you might have someone be like, well, how does that happen?

00:32:51.000 It's like, well, lead was actually frying people's brains in the air.

00:32:53.000 And so to bring it all back, like with like the Nick Fuentes story and all that stuff, we take a look at the body of body politic 20 years.

00:33:02.000 How many right wing protests have there been over 20 years?

00:33:06.000 Depends how you define protest, but...

00:33:09.000 Many.

00:33:10.000 I mean, especially during the pandemic, there were a lot of anti-lockdown protests.

00:33:16.000 Over the past 20 years, you had the Tea Party protests.

00:33:19.000 Tea Party protests.

00:33:21.000 Depends on how you define it, too.

00:33:23.000 Like, there's some militias out there.

00:33:24.000 There are 3% groups.

00:33:25.000 And herein lies the problem.

00:33:26.000 Proud Boy-type groups.

00:33:28.000 And this is the problem with institutionalized left-right dichotomy.

00:33:32.000 The American colloquial right has nothing to do with white supremacists or anti-government or sovereign citizen movements.

00:33:41.000 Literally nothing.

00:33:42.000 However, the mainstream liberal Democrat position incorporates these groups in some degree into their facets, notably in their protests and in their body politic.

00:33:56.000 So when we say AOC, for instance, is aligned with the left or or how about this?

00:34:03.000 Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren both said violence is wrong.

00:34:07.000 No one should be doing this.

00:34:08.000 It's horrible.

00:34:09.000 But people can only push so far as if to imply the health care CEO actually took an action that warranted the anger of people to be happy that he died.

00:34:19.000 The right doesn't have that.

00:34:21.000 So the Republican Party does not have that.

00:34:23.000 Like, why for months was Paul Pelosi mocked for having his head bashed?

00:34:27.000 Being mocked is different from advocating for killing.

00:34:29.000 And respectfully, too, January 6th was a big deal with the Republican Party.

00:34:33.000 Yes, quite literally.

00:34:34.000 You think it's not encouraging political violence to laugh when it happens to your opponents?

00:34:39.000 No.

00:34:39.000 What about wanting...

00:34:40.000 I have no problem...

00:34:42.000 I have no problem with the left laughing when someone on the right is injured.

00:34:47.000 I have no problem when the right laughs at someone on the left.

00:34:49.000 I know that's not true.

00:34:50.000 I know that if we pulled up a...

00:34:52.000 Okay.

00:34:53.000 The left and the right, nobody should be mocking anybody for being hurt.

00:34:56.000 Is sending a message that such violence is not as bad as the left wants you to believe if he's going, ooh, you know, whatever he said about public—and the lies that were spread about it.

00:34:56.000 Obviously Trump...

00:35:05.000 It was a gay affair or something. 0.96

00:35:06.000 That's obviously trying to— It's very, very different from saying that the CEO of a healthcare company did something to warrant the anger towards him, like the call for his murder.

00:35:16.000 That's very different.

00:35:16.000 First of all, I don't necessarily agree with that argument, but also for me, I'm just going to be principled across the board because I'm also against that.

00:35:24.000 Did Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren say people can only be pushed so far?

00:35:27.000 I'm sure they said something to that effect if you're bringing it up.

00:35:30.000 What did the healthcare CEO do to warrant anger?

00:35:33.000 What did they do that pushed people so far that they would be advocating for their murder?

00:35:40.000 I'm not going to make an argument that I don't believe in.

00:35:42.000 I'm not saying you should argue for what I'm saying.

00:35:43.000 You can tell me.

00:35:44.000 Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren said, murder is wrong.

00:35:48.000 I'm paraphrasing.

00:35:49.000 But you can only push people so far.

00:35:51.000 That statement means the healthcare CEO did something that warrants people calling for their death.

00:35:57.000 I'd love to see the clip if you want me to break it down.

00:35:59.000 Well, what they're alluding to is that the failure of the healthcare industries are responsible for their deaths and therefore they are murderers.

00:36:05.000 And what I'm trying to explain to members of my own side because I'm principled and...

00:36:10.000 Elizabeth Warren said you can only push people so far.

00:36:12.000 Right, and so then I would say bad Elizabeth Warren.

00:36:16.000 But that's—she's mainstream, like, liberal.

00:36:20.000 She's a prominent liberal.

00:36:22.000 I'm not hearing that she—she's not advocating for Biden to pardon Luigi.

00:36:25.000 No, no, but I'm saying is there— You know who is going to pardon violent people?

00:36:29.000 Did Chuck Schumer say anything like that?

00:36:30.000 Did Trump say he's going to pardon— Who's going to pardon violent people?

00:36:33.000 January 6th, the assault—he specifically asked about those who attacked police officers.

00:36:37.000 Yeah.

00:36:37.000 He said yes.

00:36:38.000 Do you want to run through the Biden pardons?

00:36:41.000 Do you see the distinguishment?

00:36:43.000 I agree there are going to be people on our respective sides we disagree with.

00:36:47.000 Yours happens to be the leader.

00:36:48.000 Well, I don't know how you identify necessarily, but yours would be the leader of your entire movement.

00:36:53.000 If someone attacked a cop, how long should they go to jail for?

00:36:56.000 I don't know.

00:36:57.000 A while?

00:36:59.000 What's a while?

00:37:02.000 Honest question.

00:37:03.000 Totally depends on the details of the assault.

00:37:05.000 Okay, so they took a cop's shield from him and bashed him in the head with it.

00:37:07.000 I'm not going to give you a specific answer.

00:37:09.000 I would have to look into the guidelines prosecutorily.

00:37:11.000 I'd have to look at other cases.

00:37:12.000 So then you literally have no opinion on Trump's pardons then?

00:37:15.000 What?

00:37:16.000 I'm saying that Trump is pardoning people on January 6th who are violent and attacked cops.

00:37:21.000 And some of them...

00:37:22.000 They've been in jail for three years.

00:37:24.000 How long should they be in prison for?

00:37:26.000 Yeah, I'd have to look at the individual cases.

00:37:28.000 Some of them wanted to overthrow the government.

00:37:30.000 So that would add...

00:37:32.000 That would mean you're neutral on Trump's pardon then?

00:37:33.000 No, because I think that the prosecutors who brought these cases then brought them in front of a jury and got convictions should be respected.

00:37:40.000 Just like how I don't think that Biden should have pardoned his son.

00:37:43.000 And even though these cases are far more serious.

00:37:46.000 I think those outcomes should be respected because I respect the justice system.

00:37:50.000 And so my point is this.

00:37:52.000 If you don't have a thought on how long they should be in prison, it's fine to say— This is what you do a lot, though.

00:37:56.000 It's fine to say, like, if we don't know how the— If your argument fails, you're just going to ask hyper-specific, slightly irrelevant questions to me.

00:38:04.000 How is it irrelevant?

00:38:05.000 Because I don't think it's relevant for me to figure out because I didn't sit in these courtrooms and listen to the details of every case exactly how long each one should be.

00:38:12.000 How could you advocate for someone to be in jail if you don't know?

00:38:14.000 Well, I can tell you.

00:38:15.000 Because Trump is saying we should subvert that process because he thinks what they did was patriotic and should then pardon them.

00:38:24.000 I don't—has you specifically said it was patriotic to do that?

00:38:27.000 Yeah, he—I mean, he, like, salutes to that song they sang every single— Well, like, is there a quote where Trump said that January 6th, people who attacked cops was patriotic?

00:38:34.000 I genuinely— Because I want to be fully honest, I will say I'm almost 100% certain he said that at some point.

00:38:40.000 That the people who attacked the police and were violent were acting patriotic?

00:38:43.000 Not in that order.

00:38:45.000 I'm paraphrasing.

00:38:46.000 January 6th, yeah, defendant.

00:38:47.000 And then as we dive more specifically into that.

00:38:49.000 I think if you're on the left or the right and you attack a cop, depending on the severity of the attack, like if we're talking about you're at a riot and you punch a cop or shove them, six months to a year is probably good.

00:38:59.000 NPR just...

00:39:04.000 No, but he already said that was wrong.

00:39:08.000 That's fine.

00:39:10.000 Look, do you feel as though more Democrats were willing to justify the BLM riots than Republican elected officials were to condemn January 6th?

00:39:22.000 Well, interestingly, a lot of the—I will answer the left wing in a second—but a lot of the Republican politicians just changed their position.

00:39:29.000 So initially it was like unanimously that was bad.

00:39:32.000 Now almost all of them apologize for what happened that day.

00:39:35.000 And we all, as I was explaining one of the times here, just—we all missed the broader danger of trying to block the peaceful transfer of power that led up.

00:39:44.000 January 6th wasn't— No, but the question was specifically for the Democrats.

00:40:00.000 And then I couldn't tell you...

00:40:03.000 My guess would be that more Republicans have apologized for the violence on January 6th than Democrats who apologized for violence during BLM. Very limited.

00:40:17.000 They would all say violence is bad, but the cause was...

00:40:19.000 It's the voice of the unheard like MLK, remember?

00:40:22.000 But then I'd get to...

00:40:24.000 I think it's a fair criticism to say maybe some were too quiet about the violence.

00:40:30.000 Like, none of them were out there saying, this is fine.

00:40:32.000 Well, they were taking a knee, many of them, Nancy Pelosi and some Democrat leaders.

00:40:37.000 Yeah, but you're mixing, like, they would show up to a peaceful protest, and then as a part of that, people would be exploiting them.

00:40:40.000 Maxine Waters with the whole, you have to go find them in restaurants, and you have to get in their face.

00:40:44.000 Get up in their face.

00:40:45.000 Like, that's not directly balanced, but that's something that we widely...

00:40:47.000 Here's two phrases for you.

00:40:49.000 Respect the diversity of tactics and snitches get...

00:40:52.000 Keep bringing that up.

00:40:53.000 And snitches get stitches. 1.00

00:40:54.000 They're...

00:40:55.000 What?

00:40:56.000 No, but then Kamala Harris also was posting a bill for BLM rioters. 1.00

00:41:00.000 This is weird.

00:41:01.000 Y'all are the ones supporting the politicians who say this, like Trump.

00:41:04.000 Say what?

00:41:06.000 Who justify violence.

00:41:07.000 Why did Trump justify violence?

00:41:08.000 I thought we just went through that.

00:41:10.000 We didn't.

00:41:10.000 I asked you for examples and you said, I don't know.

00:41:13.000 Don't just squint at me.

00:41:15.000 Tell me what you think.

00:41:16.000 It's like whenever you don't have an answer, you just get confused and say, what are you talking about?

00:41:20.000 Yeah, I'm genuinely confused that you're not listening to me because obviously if I- I ask you a question and you just don't answer and then you go softestreet.

00:41:27.000 Because I only speak- Ad hominem.

00:41:29.000 I only speak on- I haven't done ad hominem.

00:41:31.000 All you're doing is saying you do this, you do that, you do this.

00:41:33.000 You're not actually giving me a substance.

00:41:35.000 No, I was.

00:41:35.000 Oh, no, no.

00:41:36.000 I was just shocked that you didn't listen to my substance earlier.

00:41:39.000 Which was?

00:41:41.000 Yeah, so the January 6th, while I'm only going to speak on things I'm very informed on, so I'm not going to tell you exactly to the month that they should get, I do respect the fact that they were prosecuted in a court of law, and I don't think Trump to send a message to his base that what happened on January 6th was good, which is why he would do such a pardon, should be pardoning folks who were violent.

00:41:59.000 I think three years is long enough.

00:42:01.000 And that's a wrong stance, but okay.

00:42:03.000 How is it wrong?

00:42:04.000 I just explained it to you.

00:42:05.000 No, no, no, no.

00:42:06.000 You didn't.

00:42:07.000 You said the court process should play out the way it is.

00:42:10.000 My opinion on the amount of time should be served for a crime is not just wrong because you like courts.

00:42:16.000 No, no, I get that.

00:42:17.000 You need to explain why the time frame I'm asserting should be longer than three years.

00:42:22.000 No, I'm saying the default, you have to have overwhelming, compelling evidence that someone has been wronged to justify a president stepping in and saying, I'm subverting the justice system outcome.

00:42:35.000 Do you agree with that premise?

00:42:37.000 No, that's immoral.

00:42:38.000 So you're making a fascist argument.

00:42:42.000 A fascist argument?

00:42:43.000 You are making the fascist argument that the hierarchical structure of government is just and should be upheld regardless.

00:42:49.000 Okay, I'm not going to ask that.

00:42:49.000 Why?

00:42:51.000 This is...

00:42:51.000 Right, and so the system we have is...

00:42:53.000 I'm just not loving, and this is a way of celebrating violence, that Trump is celebrating those, as far as a pardon, and in his rhetoric, and in his national anthem thingy, people who attacked the Capitol.

00:43:07.000 Why did they attack it?

00:43:08.000 Because they believe lies about the election.

00:43:11.000 There's a variety of reasons why people were violent on January 6th.

00:43:14.000 Largely that they believe the election was stolen.

00:43:18.000 You don't have to keep going.

00:43:18.000 You could just be like, hey, that's bad.

00:43:21.000 I've called for their arrest and prosecution.

00:43:24.000 This is not a shock to my audience.

00:43:26.000 My reporting is responsible for the arrest of a couple of January 6th riders.

00:43:29.000 My point is that if you've got somebody on a misdemeanor charge who's been held without trial...

00:43:34.000 A pardon makes perfect sense. 0.94

00:43:36.000 Unless you're a fascist.

00:43:37.000 And the system is just.

00:43:39.000 So it's like Benjamin Franklin, who said it is better that 100 guilty persons escape than one innocent person suffer.

00:43:44.000 You've taken the Otto von Bismarck approach of it is better that 10 innocent people suffer than one guilty person escape.

00:43:50.000 No.

00:43:51.000 Yeah.

00:43:51.000 Okay, you have.

00:43:53.000 No, I haven't.

00:43:53.000 No, no, no.

00:43:54.000 Stop, stop.

00:43:55.000 You don't know anything about these January 6th cases.

00:43:57.000 You don't know why these people are in jail.

00:43:59.000 You don't know that a man is in Brooklyn right now for three years without charge or trial.

00:44:02.000 And when Donald Trump says, these people have been held for too long, you say, no, Trump is wrong.

00:44:07.000 Keep them locked up. 1.00

00:44:08.000 That's fucking fascist. 1.00

00:44:11.000 Dude, you have been sitting here with no knowledge of the specifics of some of these cases. 1.00

00:44:16.000 There is a man in Brooklyn right now, I'm going to say it again, no charges whatsoever brought. 0.98

00:44:21.000 He's been in jail for three fucking years. 0.99

00:44:23.000 For you to sit there and say it is good that he remains locked up is fascism. 0.99

00:44:27.000 That is saying the hierarchy, the hierarchical system of the courts and the government is just and the process is all that matters.

00:44:33.000 And I am saying perhaps three years is enough because I actually have moral logic and an understanding of these cases.

00:44:41.000 Hence, my position on January 6th has always been the people who have attacked police must go to prison. 0.96

00:44:45.000 But three years is a fucking long time for assault on an officer. 0.98

00:44:49.000 We have seen people on the far left, notably when they were firebombing shit all across Minnesota, 33 people murdered. 0.99

00:44:56.000 And how many criminal charges do we get for this? 0.98

00:44:58.000 When they firebombed a police station and forced the police to evacuate.

00:45:01.000 On May 29th, 2020, when...

00:45:04.000 Thousands of far leftists firebombed the White House grounds and set fire to St. John's Church and injured 100 police officers. 0.99

00:45:11.000 How many fucking people went to prison for three years? 0.99

00:45:15.000 How many of them who never showed up on that day are in prison for 20 years? 0.99

00:45:18.000 Enrique Tarrio wasn't even in D.C. on January 6th.

00:45:22.000 And you are saying that man who only his only crime was, quote, don't leave.

00:45:26.000 That's his only crime. 0.98

00:45:27.000 You think he should be in prison for 20 years because you're a fascist. 0.91

00:45:30.000 You don't care what the facts are. 0.89

00:45:32.000 You don't care if this is unjust.

00:45:33.000 You You only care that the machine state has decreed you are not to be locked up.

00:45:38.000 And this is the problem I have with the left.

00:45:40.000 They don't know the facts.

00:45:41.000 They don't care about the facts.

00:45:43.000 They view morality as a blanket government stroke of the pen.

00:45:45.000 And every person, regardless of their crime, should be in prison for decades.

00:45:49.000 I reject it outright.

00:45:50.000 The people who fought cops should go to prison.

00:45:53.000 They did.

00:45:54.000 It's been three years.

00:45:55.000 But when you've got people who are on misdemeanor charges for having walked into a building at 4 p.m.

00:46:01.000 after the riot, and I know some of these people, They walked into a building for two minutes and walked out.

00:46:05.000 And they got 18 months for that.

00:46:07.000 I don't see you defending the innocent people who walked onto a public grass at a public building after a right had been completed.

00:46:14.000 You don't know.

00:46:15.000 You don't care.

00:46:15.000 You've taken a tribal position and people are suffering because of it.

00:46:18.000 Now you say that Donald Trump saying the injustice that we've seen warrants commutation or pardons, you say that means he's advocating for violence.

00:46:26.000 This is the ultimate problem.

00:46:27.000 Then you cite a press release from Maryland saying, but the right's more violent.

00:46:31.000 There is a distinction between a white supremacist as a right wing group and a run of the mill Christian conservative who showed up on that day not to protest.

00:46:39.000 Let's talk about Brandon Strzok.

00:46:41.000 He never went in the building.

00:46:42.000 He was on the other side of the building.

00:46:44.000 There was a permanent protest.

00:46:45.000 He walked up the stairs and he was yelling.

00:46:47.000 They put this guy in prison.

00:46:49.000 There is Owen Schroyer, who was at a permanent rally, who was yelling death to communists.

00:46:55.000 They put him in prison and specifically cited his speech.

00:46:58.000 My dude, you don't know what you're talking about.

00:47:00.000 And it's fine.

00:47:01.000 I get it.

00:47:02.000 We try to be polite.

00:47:03.000 But there are so many young liberals who sit here and say, the corporate press told me that these people are bad, and the machine state government has decreed it by pen.

00:47:03.000 We try to be nice.

00:47:11.000 So I don't care what crime they committed.

00:47:13.000 I don't care what the jury said.

00:47:14.000 I don't care who was on the jury.

00:47:15.000 Enrique Torrio, who was not there, should be in prison for two decades.

00:47:19.000 Why is Enrique Torrio in prison?

00:47:19.000 Tell me this now.

00:47:21.000 Yeah, so they uncovered with him his plot to overthrow the government.

00:47:26.000 Enrique Torrio's?

00:47:27.000 Yeah, and his organization.

00:47:29.000 What plot?

00:47:30.000 Who's they? 1.00

00:47:32.000 Give me some fucking data. 1.00

00:47:34.000 Stop squinting at me and saying the prosecutors did a thing. 1.00

00:47:37.000 You didn't read it.

00:47:37.000 You didn't know.

00:47:38.000 You didn't read the court papers.

00:47:40.000 All you know is the fascist machine state told you he should be in prison and you're saying yes to them.

00:47:45.000 Give me the data.

00:47:45.000 Tell me why.

00:47:46.000 I understand that laws on the books have been there for a long time that I agree with.

00:47:49.000 That if it's proven that you had a plan and you wanted to act on it.

00:47:55.000 What's the proof?

00:47:58.000 Say the proof.

00:47:59.000 Don't ask.

00:48:00.000 Say it.

00:48:01.000 Communications between him and the public.

00:48:02.000 What communications?

00:48:02.000 What did he say?

00:48:03.000 What did he do?

00:48:04.000 Are you...

00:48:05.000 Is this serious?

00:48:06.000 Are you going to tell me why you think Enrique Tarrio should be in prison for 20 years, or are you going to say the government decreed it?

00:48:12.000 I just explained to you...

00:48:13.000 The government said so.

00:48:14.000 Is that it?

00:48:15.000 It's usually law enforcement, which I guess is a part of the government.

00:48:19.000 Yep.

00:48:19.000 The government said so?

00:48:20.000 Law enforcement that uncovers evidence of communications, a memo that he crafted and sent to his organization...

00:48:26.000 Saying what?

00:48:26.000 ...that detailed each institution of government that they were going to try to overthrow.

00:48:30.000 Then just days later...

00:48:33.000 His organization is at the Capitol.

00:48:39.000 I don't think we can even pull up Enrique Tarrio.

00:48:41.000 I'm not quite sure that there's any evidence of that sort.

00:48:48.000 Yeah.

00:48:49.000 I'll say this.

00:48:49.000 You know what?

00:48:51.000 The idea that Enrique Tarrio crafted a memo outlining...

00:48:54.000 Excuse me, okay.

00:48:54.000 ...or they...

00:48:57.000 Three months featured witness evidence featured at Tario when co-defense included videos, thousands of messages, and encrypted chat groups, as well as a public message on Parler.

00:49:04.000 Honorable 4th, January 6th, Tario to convene a ministry of self-defense to coordinate Proud Boys' leadership on January 6th.

00:49:09.000 The chat show that Tario stationed in Baltimore until encouraged the Proud Boys as they attacked the Capitol.

00:49:13.000 Let's figure out what that encouragement was.

00:49:17.000 Are they going to actually say in the article?

00:49:19.000 So here's a citation.

00:49:21.000 Okay, that's interesting.

00:49:36.000 Wikipedia asserts that they did this, but there's actually nothing in the news article that actually states that it's true.

00:49:42.000 Well, now we've got a problem.

00:49:44.000 Let's try this again.

00:49:45.000 Let's try a secondary source.

00:49:47.000 Let's see.

00:49:48.000 Ah, there it is.

00:49:49.000 They introduced evidence that Tario discussed with associates a plan to have a large crowd in Washington storm government buildings in a scheme they called 1776 Returns, in which the Winter Palace was used as an apparent code for the U.S. Capitol.

00:49:59.000 In a message he said, make no mistake, we did this, do what must be done, and directed the Proud Boys to do it again.

00:50:07.000 So the question then becomes, in the bigger picture— So are you going to at all acknowledge that you just blew up over something that I was absolutely citing fairly?

00:50:17.000 I don't think you cited it fairly.

00:50:19.000 I don't think—I think people should be prosecuted for engaging in plans to overthrow our government.

00:50:24.000 That's a very loose definition of plans to overthrow the government.

00:50:24.000 That's kind of bad.

00:50:29.000 Y'all don't seem to be that informed.

00:50:31.000 Wait, look, respectfully, I cover a lot of protests and riots.

00:50:33.000 A lot of people try to protest and occupy government buildings.

00:50:39.000 Do you think that qualifies as trying to overthrow your government?

00:50:43.000 No.

00:50:44.000 Okay, good.

00:50:45.000 But if they had a plan to take control of the government, which was this one...

00:50:45.000 So I mean...

00:50:49.000 If this was an actual plan, this was the leastly, most ridiculous plan ever. 0.78

00:50:55.000 They went after people for having Lego sets of the Capitol. 0.91

00:50:58.000 I mean, the level of political prosecution...

00:51:00.000 Would you even admit that there was some level of politics when it came to the prosecution of the J6s? 1.00

00:51:06.000 Would you say politics played a role in this?

00:51:08.000 Engaging with this as thoughtfully as possible, not trying to grandstand.

00:51:12.000 Of course, often, for very justifiable reasons, prosecutors will try to make an example of someone who, for example, tried to overthrow the government to prevent the peaceful transfer of power.

00:51:23.000 I see why such a thing, categorized as sedition, would be uniquely bad to prosecutors.

00:51:31.000 And political in that this all involved politics, right?

00:51:36.000 I'm sorry, I have to say this.

00:51:39.000 The Wikipedia article making those claims is not citing any actual proof that they said those things.

00:51:46.000 Because we're harping on these pardons, pardons are obviously an interesting political constitutional quirk that presidents are able to do that.

00:51:55.000 It really does undermine the law in our country.

00:51:57.000 But Biden's getting a lot of pushback for clemency that he granted for the Cash for Kids judge who was responsible for sending something like 2,000 children into a Pennsylvania jail, a private prison that he was getting kickbacks for.

00:52:09.000 Do you think that was worse than any pardon Donald Trump could give to any January 6th writer?

00:52:16.000 Have you heard of this judge that Joe Biden granted clemency for?

00:52:19.000 A judge who was responsible for sending thousands of teenagers to prison for, you know, otherwise misdemeanor charges while he was getting kickbacks for.

00:52:27.000 Joe Biden was getting a lot of pushback for this.

00:52:31.000 Have you heard of this guy specifically?

00:52:33.000 I've heard of that, but I'm not as read in on it as I should be to speak on it.

00:52:37.000 But I was more focused on, just because it was the big story, and I wanted to, again, advocate principle, his Hunter Biden pardon, which has been the topic of discussion pardon-wise for us, mostly.

00:52:47.000 It was funny, because you were telling us a little bit pre-show that you actually had a first-hand experience with Hunter Biden.

00:52:52.000 I don't know, could you tell us anything about your experience first-hand with...

00:52:57.000 Yeah, just at the holiday party.

00:52:58.000 ...and with the legend?

00:52:59.000 Yeah, I knew somebody at the White House who invited me to the White House party, the holiday party.

00:53:04.000 Hunter Biden was there.

00:53:05.000 I found it kind of strange.

00:53:06.000 I feel like...

00:53:08.000 I'm sorry, what was his reception?

00:53:09.000 Who cares?

00:53:12.000 There's a saying that if you're not liberal when you're young, you have no heart, and if you're not conservative when you're old, you have no head.

00:53:18.000 But the interesting thing about it is, like, what we define as conservative or liberal are amorphous, right?

00:53:25.000 So, like, what does it mean to be conservative?

00:53:27.000 Who wants to try and explain what conservative is?

00:53:30.000 Traditional, hierarchical, individualistic, or the general ideals that it trends towards.

00:53:37.000 What does liberal mean?

00:53:38.000 Like enlightenment ideas, vaguely, free speech, God.

00:53:43.000 Then why is it that the liberal, the colloquial liberal are the authoritarians in this country?

00:53:50.000 Because they're not liberals.

00:53:51.000 Because Rush Limbaugh in the 90s ruined the word liberal.

00:53:55.000 So like...

00:53:56.000 I obviously disagree with that, but...

00:53:57.000 Well, so lockdowns.

00:53:58.000 Let's try lockdowns.

00:53:59.000 Let's start there.

00:54:00.000 Government lockdowns were largely a liberal phenomenon.

00:54:03.000 Well, initially it was right and left.

00:54:05.000 Trump supported too.

00:54:07.000 For two weeks, and then...

00:54:08.000 It was more than two weeks.

00:54:09.000 No, no, no.

00:54:10.000 The initial thing was two weeks to slow the spread.

00:54:11.000 And that was Trump who did that.

00:54:11.000 Oh, yeah.

00:54:13.000 And then it resulted in basically everybody locking down, but it was the right that ultimately started letting up.

00:54:18.000 And so you ended up with vaccine mandates, mask mandates, which shifted largely into a liberal.

00:54:26.000 Yeah.

00:54:26.000 That's why I say left instead.

00:54:27.000 So that became the authoritarian faction.

00:54:27.000 Agreed.

00:54:30.000 The left adopted that one.

00:54:31.000 But then, like, what do you say about Trump talking about going after the media outlets he doesn't like or...

00:54:36.000 Suing them?

00:54:37.000 Whenever he said...

00:54:37.000 That's allowed.

00:54:38.000 No, I know it's allowed.

00:54:39.000 You agree, though, that, like, him saying the government, this was a quote on true social, he pulled up, should come down hard on MSNBC? What's wrong with that?

00:54:47.000 That's fine to you?

00:54:47.000 That's not...

00:54:49.000 That's not authoritarian?

00:54:49.000 To me, whenever presidents want to wield a governmental power...

00:54:53.000 To go after Alice they don't like their coverage of.

00:54:55.000 We have laws though.

00:54:57.000 What do you think about Stephanopoulos defaming Donald Trump?

00:55:01.000 Let's not segue off of the question he just asked.

00:55:03.000 He didn't defame him.

00:55:04.000 So when...

00:55:06.000 We'll love to talk about that by the way.

00:55:07.000 When Trump says there are...

00:55:11.000 We have civil liability issues pertaining to defamation and the media.

00:55:17.000 Yeah, you sue them.

00:55:18.000 And if the government is an aggrieved party through defamation, then they should sue them.

00:55:23.000 Yeah, I know you would be losing your absolute mind if Biden was out saying the media like Fox News.

00:55:30.000 I wouldn't be. 0.96

00:55:30.000 Criminals. 0.96

00:55:31.000 I assure you a lot of Fox News.

00:55:33.000 100%.

00:55:34.000 Yeah.

00:55:34.000 And I wouldn't be.

00:55:37.000 That's an authoritarian impulse to want to punish not outlets that I don't even know what the justification would be, but it's all about people who have wronged him.

00:55:46.000 And if you disagree with that, I think you're obviously staring in the face of facts.

00:55:49.000 I'm not saying that aggrieved parties should have no recourse, be it the government or otherwise.

00:55:53.000 So if the federal government is lied about by the New York Times...

00:55:56.000 Do you think Ann Seltzer deserves to be drained of her funds by Donald Trump? 1.00

00:56:00.000 I never said I agree with that.

00:56:01.000 Right, so he's doing it to...

00:56:03.000 He's allowed to file a civil lawsuit.

00:56:05.000 He's allowed legally.

00:56:06.000 I'm saying you can act in an authoritarian manner.

00:56:10.000 Okay, well this is very different from like taking people's jobs away unless they get a medication.

00:56:15.000 Well, yeah, those were the individual jobs.

00:56:17.000 The jobs were doing that.

00:56:18.000 Under government mandate, Biden issued a mandate that a company with more than 100 employees had to do it.

00:56:24.000 Or masking.

00:56:27.000 It was always an option.

00:56:28.000 You were never forced.

00:56:29.000 They required that if you had more than 100 employees, you were forced to issue vaccine mandates.

00:56:35.000 Or masks.

00:56:36.000 Sure.

00:56:37.000 The government forced every company to do this.

00:56:37.000 Pick one.

00:56:40.000 Yeah, and the government has all sorts of mandates for safety.

00:56:43.000 OSHA has no authority to do anything like that, and the Supreme Court found it.

00:56:46.000 Listen, listen, listen.

00:56:46.000 Agree.

00:56:47.000 I'm totally fine if this is your argument.

00:56:49.000 That's fine.

00:56:49.000 I'm just saying that...

00:56:50.000 If you think that filing a defamation lawsuit is comparable to the government mandating everything...

00:56:54.000 I'm saying there's nothing more authoritarian than saying we should terminate the Constitution because election lies pulled up on True Social.

00:57:01.000 The MSNBC comment, he talked about...

00:57:04.000 We went over this one with Chank on to terminate the Constitution.

00:57:07.000 And I'll give...

00:57:08.000 Don't defend that.

00:57:09.000 It's just like you don't...

00:57:11.000 The Constitution shouldn't be terminated.

00:57:13.000 He didn't say that.

00:57:14.000 Pull it up, please.

00:57:15.000 A massive fraud of this type of magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations...

00:57:19.000 We went over this with Jack, and I know that you guys have a tribal reason why you're going to oppose...

00:57:22.000 No, no, no.

00:57:23.000 I think there's just few things that are so succinctly an embodiment of someone's lack of dedication to our Constitution.

00:57:29.000 So...

00:57:30.000 Let me ask you a question.

00:57:31.000 Him thinking Ann Seltzer...

00:57:32.000 Let me ask you a question.

00:57:33.000 If I said the overturning of Roe v.

00:57:35.000 Wade allows for women to be put in bonnets and red dresses and forced to be impregnated, am I calling for them to be? 1.00

00:57:41.000 Yeah, you're alluding to that being...

00:57:42.000 So when the Democrats literally said that, you were saying...

00:57:42.000 Yeah.

00:57:45.000 Oh, wait, that's the argument?

00:57:46.000 So you agree that the Democrats want to put women in bonnets? 0.93

00:57:49.000 No, I understand that you can both make an argument that we live in some dystopian reality where this is the case.

00:57:55.000 So here's my point.

00:57:56.000 Trump, earlier in the message, was talking about overturning the election.

00:57:59.000 He was saying he would be the one, by the mechanism of terming the Constitution, to overturn the election results.

00:58:04.000 I'd call this the Covington effect.

00:58:06.000 When...

00:58:07.000 Was that the kids?

00:58:08.000 The Covington kids.

00:58:09.000 Yeah.

00:58:09.000 Or the Sandman effect.

00:58:10.000 Trump said, I'll give you...

00:58:28.000 We talked with Jenko about this a couple weeks ago.

00:58:30.000 Please tell me.

00:58:30.000 Please.

00:58:31.000 Are you saying he wasn't obviously saying that we've gone so far because of his lies?

00:58:37.000 You agreed those were lies.

00:58:38.000 What lies?

00:58:39.000 About the election.

00:58:40.000 Which ones?

00:58:41.000 Millions of votes and Dominion was flipping and all these things.

00:58:43.000 Did Trump explicitly say Dominion flipped votes?

00:58:46.000 Yes.

00:58:47.000 And that's not true, yeah.

00:58:48.000 That was wrong.

00:58:49.000 Well, there's a difference between being wrong and lying.

00:58:49.000 Okay.

00:58:50.000 And I'm not here to assert that I can read anyone's mind.

00:58:53.000 But there were times that the people around him heard him say, like, can you believe I lost to this guy?

00:58:56.000 Who said that?

00:58:57.000 Oh my gosh.

00:58:58.000 I mean, come on, like, dude, you're making a lot of statements of fact, and I'm asking you to just be like, hey, like, who claimed Trump said— Okay, fine.

00:59:05.000 He accidentally made a bunch of false statements, and it led to terrible things.

00:59:08.000 No, he lies.

00:59:08.000 I think Trump lies a lot.

00:59:09.000 Even if you thought the election was unfair, trying to do the fake electric scheme, all those things, none of it's justifiable.

00:59:14.000 That is so authoritarian.

00:59:17.000 Scott Adams calls this— It's so authoritarian.

00:59:19.000 Scott Adams calls this, what is it, one screen, two movies effect?

00:59:19.000 Right.

00:59:24.000 That's shocking.

00:59:25.000 Yeah, you're shocking.

00:59:26.000 That's crazy.

00:59:27.000 I mean, I don't think we're allowed to...

00:59:29.000 I mean, with the masking, that wasn't an option, though, wasn't it?

00:59:32.000 Just like you had to get the vaccine.

00:59:33.000 I don't remember.

00:59:35.000 But in this regard, this is a really, really great example of the one screen, two movies.

00:59:35.000 You couldn't even go get food.

00:59:40.000 Now, I have no problem saying, I totally understand why you believe what you believe, right?

00:59:44.000 I also think that this country is deeply pitted against...

00:59:47.000 It's two factions that are deeply pitted against each other that can't actually understand the phenomenon at play.

00:59:52.000 That is...

00:59:53.000 Nowhere in that statement did Trump say, we must terminate the Constitution.

00:59:57.000 You interpret it as such.

01:00:00.000 That's it.

01:00:01.000 Yeah, that's the crazy bending over backwards way.

01:00:05.000 Well, actually the reason- It's just a different interpretation.

01:00:08.000 It's not crazy bending over backwards.

01:00:11.000 You're putting the context- You don't say false statements about the election and then say we should do something that's not constitutional, which is throw an election out months and months after it happened, and then go, by the way- It was a question.

01:00:25.000 It was phrased as a question.

01:00:26.000 Hold on, hold on.

01:00:26.000 This is actually really simple.

01:00:28.000 In the context you are presenting, Trump is saying, I believe there was a massive fraud against me.

01:00:33.000 The founding fathers would not have wanted this.

01:00:35.000 This fraud they have committed allows for all of the rules to be thrown out.

01:00:41.000 He is not saying we must terminate the Constitution.

01:00:43.000 He's saying Democrats already did.

01:00:46.000 All right.

01:00:47.000 You can make that argument.

01:00:48.000 It's not an argument I made up.

01:00:50.000 This is literally what conservatives believe.

01:00:51.000 You're saying that's your interpretation.

01:00:52.000 I'm saying— It's not my interpretation.

01:00:54.000 Well, then what's your interpretation?

01:00:55.000 I am telling you there are— What is your interpretation then?

01:00:58.000 Take a stance on it.

01:00:59.000 Trump issued a statement that all rules and regulations, including those in the Constitution, can be overturned in the event that there is a massive fraud.

01:01:08.000 Okay, thank you.

01:01:09.000 Well, we agree then.

01:01:10.000 That's crazy and authoritarian.

01:01:12.000 Because he was lying about the fraud, and he's lying about the mechanisms by which you address fraud.

01:01:17.000 You just reasserted that you can read his mind when Tim was saying no.

01:01:21.000 Oh, yeah.

01:01:22.000 If one guy thinks an election was unfair and can't present that in the places where you have to present it to get an election overturned, courts... 0.91

01:01:29.000 Then yes, lie, false statement, whatever, it's ridiculous and it's dangerous is the important point.

01:01:35.000 So I think if we want to go through instances where we feel like either side has done authoritarian things, we could do that.

01:01:41.000 But it's wild, wild that y'all are so willing to speak out about what you perceive to be authoritarianism on the left with no understanding of the chief authoritarian crime you could do is trying to prevent the key part of our democratic process, which is the peaceful transfer power.

01:01:54.000 The chief authoritarian crime you could do is kill someone without due process, but we won't get into that one tonight.

01:01:58.000 That was Obama.

01:01:59.000 That's right.

01:02:00.000 Yeah.

01:02:01.000 The point here is when we're trying to logically understand what is going on, because clearly it's not so easy to say Trump is evil, Trump is good.

01:02:09.000 There's two different factions in this country.

01:02:10.000 Trump won the popular mandate.

01:02:12.000 Therefore, you could argue, I guess the public thinks Trump is good.

01:02:15.000 In that case, the public interpretation of this in the majority is that Trump wasn't calling for the termination of the Constitution.

01:02:20.000 His faction won the majority vote.

01:02:21.000 Almost every person I've talked to doesn't know that.

01:02:24.000 Doesn't know what he said?

01:02:26.000 Yeah.

01:02:27.000 No, people don't know that he's threatened media outlets like he has.

01:02:29.000 He's talked about calling them criminals would be bad.

01:02:33.000 Why?

01:02:34.000 Because fostering an environment where people who, for the singular reason that they speak out against you politically, which they're allowed to do, are criminals, that's the only thing he would cite, is that they've said terrible things about him.

01:02:46.000 And then going further, say the government should get involved in punishing them, and then to show his willingness to, even before he takes office, with him as a much more resourced person trying to punish ABC, which we could talk about, that was ridiculous that they decided to be in the knee there, and then Ann Seltzer for doing a poll that was wrong.

01:03:03.000 But that's a private lawsuit.

01:03:04.000 And he's doing that for a purpose.

01:03:07.000 So?

01:03:08.000 Which I don't like.

01:03:09.000 I sued Kamala Harris. 0.97

01:03:11.000 Awesome.

01:03:11.000 I'm saying I don't like whenever presidents wield their official governmental power or...

01:03:17.000 But it's private.

01:03:18.000 It's not government power.

01:03:19.000 Or their power of their massive megaphone understanding he's about to have governmental power to threaten people who speak out against him.

01:03:27.000 There was no guarantee that he was going to have governmental power.

01:03:29.000 No, he's doing this suit now.

01:03:31.000 He's doing the ABC or the ABC was before.

01:03:33.000 Yeah, when it was going on prior to him winning though.

01:03:36.000 No, Ann Seltzer, he just brought this suit.

01:03:39.000 He did. 1.00

01:03:40.000 I think it's a stupid lawsuit. 1.00

01:03:42.000 But it's a private lawsuit, so I don't care. 1.00

01:03:44.000 What is...

01:03:45.000 You think...

01:03:46.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:03:46.000 I think it's stupid, so I'm not gonna ask you. 1.00

01:03:48.000 Like, why... 0.99

01:03:48.000 I was about to ask you. 0.99

01:03:49.000 Like, I don't know.

01:03:50.000 Like, Trump could sue whoever he wants.

01:03:52.000 He said that the government should rip CBS off the air, ABC off the air.

01:03:56.000 You know why?

01:03:57.000 Do you know why he says he was lying about what happened?

01:04:00.000 Because CBS edited the interview.

01:04:02.000 every interview no no no no they edited his interview too They edited two different versions, and when they got a bad reaction, they changed her answer.

01:04:09.000 That's very different.

01:04:10.000 No, they played one.

01:04:11.000 One was an extended version, and the other was for the CBS mornings.

01:04:15.000 She gave a different answer.

01:04:17.000 I watched the full unedited thing.

01:04:17.000 No, no, no.

01:04:20.000 She gives a kind of...

01:04:22.000 Either way, the argument is not that Trump...

01:04:24.000 Well, don't say something false, then either way...

01:04:27.000 No, no, no, no, no, no.

01:04:27.000 It's not true.

01:04:28.000 I'm saying that is true that they issued two different versions.

01:04:30.000 No, she gave a longer answer, and the first half of it was a little bit more...

01:04:34.000 There was a lack of...

01:04:36.000 So there's two different versions.

01:04:38.000 Are there two different versions?

01:04:40.000 No, it's one answer that then they only took one part of.

01:04:42.000 Are there two videos that are different from each other of the answer?

01:04:45.000 They ran like a version like because they can't play the entire interview on CBS Mornings when they're advertising for it.

01:04:52.000 We're trying to get to the logic.

01:04:54.000 So whenever I play a Tim Pool clip and I go, hey, I was on Tim Pool.

01:04:59.000 Here's 10 seconds of it.

01:05:01.000 The full thing's on Tim Pool's channel.

01:05:03.000 We're talking about Kamala Harris.

01:05:06.000 Don't talk about me.

01:05:06.000 Please.

01:05:07.000 Go back to Kamala Harris.

01:05:07.000 Please try.

01:05:08.000 I'm trying to illustrate a point.

01:05:09.000 You're mandering.

01:05:10.000 That they, on CBS mornings, aren't going to play the full interview.

01:05:14.000 So they played a more succinct portion.

01:05:15.000 I'm not arguing that.

01:05:16.000 I'm trying to ask you.

01:05:17.000 I don't think Trump pulling off CBS off the air because they did what they have a right to do, which is editing interviews.

01:05:23.000 He's not president yet.

01:05:24.000 And you think that as president he can pull them off the air?

01:05:26.000 I think him saying it is proof of his authoritarian intentions, whether or not he's competent enough to get it done.

01:05:31.000 So if a news outlet does selectively edit for political reasons, that actually already is grounds for suspension of a broadcast license.

01:05:41.000 You would be hard-pressed.

01:05:43.000 To prove there was a political motivation.

01:05:45.000 And you agree Trump's not going to be able to do it.

01:05:47.000 And I don't think Trump should be running around saying, if you edit things in the way that I don't like, if you say things I don't like, I don't even know what his case against MSNBC would be.

01:05:55.000 But if you speak out against me politically, then I'm going to add you to a list.

01:05:59.000 He recently said yes to Brian Glenn asking about social media influencers.

01:06:03.000 And while, of course, you have a legal right to sue.

01:06:06.000 There's that, and the fear he's trying to induce by bringing such bogus lawsuits, like the ABC one, bogus.

01:06:13.000 Against Stuart Stephanopoulos?

01:06:14.000 Yeah.

01:06:15.000 But Stephanopoulos was wrong.

01:06:16.000 He was, in a legal sense, wrong, but we all agree, the judge clarified that in common parlance, rape is the way we describe what he was on libel for.

01:06:25.000 But Stephanopoulos said the jury said it.

01:06:27.000 Right, and so you would have to prove...

01:06:30.000 But you agree Trump never could have won that case, right?

01:06:33.000 That's why they settled.

01:06:33.000 He would have.

01:06:34.000 No, no, no. 0.99

01:06:35.000 They settled because they're afraid of him and they know that he could drag this sucker on forever. 0.96

01:06:40.000 I've been involved in a lot of lawsuits.

01:06:41.000 Getting past motion to dismiss and defamation is extremely difficult.

01:06:45.000 It happens in like one ten thousand.

01:06:46.000 Given our free speech rights and the fact that you have to prove damages, you agree for that?

01:06:52.000 You don't.

01:06:52.000 That's defamation per se.

01:06:53.000 You don't know what you're talking about.

01:06:54.000 But why do you care about – Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

01:06:56.000 Defamation per se.

01:06:59.000 You are wrong.

01:07:01.000 You don't know what you're talking about.

01:07:05.000 You don't have to prove that someone knowingly said something?

01:07:08.000 All right.

01:07:08.000 Okay.

01:07:09.000 You were plum wrong.

01:07:10.000 This instance accusing someone of rape is called defamation per se.

01:07:13.000 So when George Stephanopoulos had been previously warned on multiple occasions, ABC News did, that Trump's legal team sent letters saying this is not rape.

01:07:21.000 The jury did not say rape.

01:07:22.000 Do not say this on TV. That's why when they were approaching motion to dismiss, their lawyers decided we need to settle this and give Trump what he wants.

01:07:30.000 I'm saying they could never prove, never.

01:07:33.000 That he was saying something false enough, given that the judge—it wasn't like some— No, no, no.

01:07:38.000 The judge clarified that rape is what he was found liable of.

01:07:42.000 But George Stephanopoulos said the jury said this.

01:07:44.000 I understand.

01:07:45.000 And the jury found him liable of something.

01:07:46.000 And the jury did not say this.

01:07:48.000 That pundits can describe.

01:07:49.000 So defamation per se is different from defamation.

01:07:51.000 I'm just saying the judge.

01:07:52.000 I'll teach you.

01:07:53.000 No, the judge clarified. 0.84

01:07:55.000 So George Stephanopoulos said the judge said Trump committed this rape.

01:07:59.000 I'm paraphrasing.

01:08:00.000 And he said the jury said this.

01:08:03.000 The judge said this.

01:08:04.000 The jury did not say this.

01:08:05.000 There is defamation and there's defamation per se.

01:08:08.000 Defamation is to say something that's false.

01:08:11.000 And with the Times v. Sullivan, you need to have acted with actual malice, meaning you knew what you were saying was false or you acted with reckless disregard for the truth.

01:08:20.000 Under that, you could make the argument that Trump's not going to win.

01:08:23.000 However, this is defamation per se, which doesn't require these.

01:08:26.000 It doesn't require damages, and it doesn't require you to act with malice.

01:08:29.000 It only requires that you said something so damaging to a person as if to accuse them of an egregious crime, a sexual crime or having an infectious disease that you actually bypass those those precedents.

01:08:41.000 In this regard, it was actually rather surprising to see how quickly ABC folded.

01:08:47.000 And for 16 million dollars is no joke.

01:08:49.000 They're going to build a museum for Trump.

01:08:51.000 That's the weirdest thing about it.

01:08:53.000 And Stephanopoulos and ABC both had to pay Trump a million dollars.

01:08:56.000 I have been in probably 10 defamation suits and targeted to me and me targeting others.

01:09:04.000 And they never go anywhere.

01:09:06.000 They're impossible.

01:09:07.000 In this regard, George Stephanopoulos had been previously warned, as it's been reported, and he made a false statement about what the jury asserted.

01:09:15.000 Trump wins.

01:09:16.000 Yeah, the judge clarified that what the jury found him liable of—I don't know if we're going to get to a resolution on this, but what he was found liable of can be described as rape, even if what they technically— Do I believe the Eugene Carroll story?

01:09:32.000 You really do?

01:09:32.000 Yeah.

01:09:33.000 Mm-hmm.

01:09:34.000 Come on.

01:09:35.000 I don't know why she would have witnesses that she called immediately after.

01:09:40.000 How did she get in the room?

01:09:41.000 How did she get in the dressing room?

01:09:44.000 Bergdorf Goodman locks her dressing rooms.

01:09:47.000 I'm assuming it was open?

01:09:49.000 No, they don't know.

01:09:50.000 It wasn't answered.

01:09:51.000 They said, we don't know.

01:09:51.000 It doesn't make sense.

01:09:52.000 How was she wearing a dress that didn't come out until a few years later?

01:09:57.000 A lot of questions that were litigated in front of the jury.

01:09:59.000 It's weird, right?

01:09:59.000 Why didn't Trump bring her to the hotel he owned across the street?

01:10:03.000 Yeah, I'm not really interested in mitigating the whole case.

01:10:07.000 But you believe it?

01:10:09.000 No, I'm stating, oh yes, I do believe it.

01:10:12.000 Where were the customers at the Bergdorf Goodman?

01:10:14.000 Understanding that the...

01:10:16.000 Where were the customers?

01:10:17.000 Yeah, where were the customers?

01:10:18.000 Have you been there before?

01:10:19.000 Uh-huh.

01:10:20.000 If you go, it's actually a massive store.

01:10:23.000 Right, I know.

01:10:24.000 And the dressing rooms could be very isolated if it wasn't like a super busy day, or even if it was, you could still...

01:10:31.000 Nobody recognized the most famous man in New York walking into the Bergdorf Goodman?

01:10:34.000 Isn't that crazy?

01:10:35.000 You believe it.

01:10:36.000 Mm-hmm.

01:10:37.000 That's funny.

01:10:38.000 It's also substantially by the fact that a bunch of people have had such interactions with Trump.

01:10:43.000 No, but we're talking about one lady who said she was wearing a dress that didn't come out until a few years later.

01:10:47.000 She went to the Bergdorf government across the street from Trump's hotel where nobody noticed either of them.

01:10:51.000 She went upstairs where there were no customers and was able to enter a locked room with Donald Trump.

01:10:55.000 And that's just pretty wild of a story.

01:10:58.000 Okay.

01:10:59.000 Do you believe Christina Hoff Summers, too?

01:11:03.000 I don't actually know that case.

01:11:04.000 That was the Brett Kavanaugh one.

01:11:05.000 Oh, oh yeah.

01:11:06.000 You do believe her?

01:11:08.000 It has been, yes.

01:11:09.000 That she was afraid to fly?

01:11:12.000 But she flew several times for vacation?

01:11:12.000 Yes.

01:11:14.000 Yeah, people were afraid to fly.

01:11:15.000 You believe that she installed a second door in her home because she needed an escape?

01:11:18.000 I have to tell you, especially on that case, I would only want to debate it if I freshened up on the details of it.

01:11:26.000 What makes someone a liberal or conservative is whether they actually know what they're talking about.

01:11:30.000 Because, like, policy-wise, I can say I'm pro-choice, traditional Democrat pro-choice.

01:11:35.000 I can say I think we should tax the rich.

01:11:38.000 I think wars are bad.

01:11:40.000 I think, you know, I like the Civil Rights Act.

01:11:43.000 And then also I'm a conservative because I know what the news is. 1.00

01:11:46.000 Because I can say something like, well, that story's bullshit. 0.99

01:11:48.000 And then people are like, well, if you don't agree with it, you're not a liberal. 0.99

01:11:51.000 And I'm like, fine, I guess.

01:11:52.000 I don't know. 1.00

01:11:52.000 Liberals believe weird shit. 1.00

01:11:55.000 Like the Ahmaud Arbery case? 1.00

01:11:56.000 Or like George Floyd?

01:11:59.000 What do you mean George Floyd?

01:12:01.000 What happened with George Floyd?

01:12:03.000 Are you going to make the fentanyl case?

01:12:04.000 I'm not going to make it.

01:12:05.000 I'm going to ask you what you think happened.

01:12:06.000 You're the one who brought it up.

01:12:07.000 I was just curious what your belief was about it.

01:12:09.000 Yeah.

01:12:10.000 I think that someone kneeled...

01:12:11.000 He brought it up, and so he asked you about it, and then you asked him back.

01:12:15.000 I'm just curious about what your opinion is on it.

01:12:18.000 I think you don't have one.

01:12:19.000 I think you don't know what to say.

01:12:20.000 Oh, I do know what to say.

01:12:20.000 I think you're scared that if you say the wrong thing, someone's going to...

01:12:23.000 No, no, I'll tell you.

01:12:23.000 Sure.

01:12:24.000 Derek Chauvin caused George Floyd to die because he had his knee on George Floyd's back neck area.

01:12:32.000 And what did that do?

01:12:34.000 Killed him.

01:12:35.000 No, but I mean, like, what's the medical examiner's reasoning?

01:12:38.000 Is it suffocation is the technical term?

01:12:40.000 No, I don't think you know what you're talking about.

01:12:43.000 I think you have a surface-level tribal position where you didn't actually research most of these things, and you're just saying what you think you need to say.

01:12:48.000 Oh, no, I mean, I kept up with the—I mean, I watched the video, and then I kept up with the court case, and then he was found guilty of murder.

01:12:55.000 Why was George Floyd on the ground?

01:12:57.000 Tell me.

01:12:58.000 I'm asking you.

01:12:59.000 Because they got into an altercation, so he brought him to the ground.

01:13:02.000 That's not correct.

01:13:04.000 Okay.

01:13:05.000 George Floyd was asked to be put on the ground.

01:13:08.000 George Floyd asked the police to put him on the ground.

01:13:12.000 So I'm just really fascinated to get to your conclusion, which is?

01:13:15.000 You don't know what you're talking about.

01:13:17.000 I got that part.

01:13:17.000 Right.

01:13:18.000 And this is why I ask you questions.

01:13:20.000 And then you just say, well, what do you think?

01:13:22.000 And I'm like, I'm here to figure out if you actually know what you're talking about or you're just masquerading as a political pundit.

01:13:26.000 Yeah, I'm not really sure on any of the issues we've gone through how that's been...

01:13:31.000 I think you read liberal opinions and then repeat the surface level versions of them, and you can't actually answer to the actual structure of why these arguments come up in the first place.

01:13:40.000 I think this is typical of liberals.

01:13:41.000 Interesting, because on the things that we've gone through and then had to look up, I feel completely substantiated.

01:13:46.000 Do you know who Ahmaud Arbery is?

01:13:48.000 Yeah.

01:13:49.000 Tell me.

01:13:49.000 Who is he?

01:13:51.000 Are you joking?!

01:13:54.000 I'm asking you if you know who Aubrey is.

01:13:57.000 I'm not going to keep going through this because I know you are going to get me on particular details.

01:14:00.000 I want you...

01:14:01.000 Over and over and over again.

01:14:02.000 I know.

01:14:02.000 I can do it all day.

01:14:03.000 Yeah.

01:14:04.000 You don't know what you're talking about!

01:14:06.000 No, no.

01:14:06.000 Because whenever I go in to prepare a story, then I properly read up on it.

01:14:10.000 And then I deliver that story.

01:14:12.000 So on the areas...

01:14:13.000 Just so you don't know who he is.

01:14:14.000 I don't know.

01:14:14.000 That's no big deal.

01:14:16.000 If I say, do you know who Ahmed Arbery is, I'd be like, no, I'm not familiar.

01:14:18.000 Who is it?

01:14:19.000 I think that was kind of my response.

01:14:21.000 I said, okay, who?

01:14:21.000 You said yes.

01:14:22.000 And you go, tell me.

01:14:23.000 I'm blanking on the particular case, to be honest.

01:14:25.000 Okay.

01:14:26.000 That's fine if you don't know who he is.

01:14:27.000 If you just said, no, I'm not familiar with him, I'd say, okay.

01:14:30.000 Yeah.

01:14:31.000 Kind of my point.

01:14:31.000 You said you did, but you don't.

01:14:33.000 No.

01:14:34.000 Did I even say on that case?

01:14:35.000 You said yes.

01:14:36.000 Well, I definitely recognize the name.

01:14:37.000 Okay, well, he was the guy who burglarized that home and ended up dying in the scuffle with the McMichaels.

01:14:43.000 Yeah.

01:14:44.000 I remember.

01:14:45.000 Yeah.

01:14:46.000 But I remember how tragic that was.

01:14:51.000 Certainly was tragic.

01:14:52.000 What do you think about that case?

01:14:52.000 Yeah.

01:14:55.000 It has been a long time.

01:14:56.000 I mean, I remember the details of them on the truck and all that, but on something I'm not prepared to talk about in an informed manner, I'm just not going to talk about it.

01:15:04.000 All right.

01:15:05.000 I can accept that.

01:15:05.000 Yeah.

01:15:06.000 Should we then talk about the continuing resolution?

01:15:08.000 Because we've gone an hour without doing that.

01:15:10.000 That is, uh...

01:15:11.000 I like that idea.

01:15:12.000 Probably a good idea.

01:15:13.000 That's good.

01:15:14.000 It's the last show of the year in studio, so, you know, we're chilling.

01:15:18.000 We have the story from The Hill.

01:15:20.000 House rejects Johnson's plan B to prevent shutdown.

01:15:24.000 That's it.

01:15:25.000 I think I have an image of the bills.

01:15:28.000 Let me see if I can find it.

01:15:29.000 Did I not have it pulled out?

01:15:30.000 Here it is right here.

01:15:30.000 Here we go.

01:15:31.000 Take a look at this.

01:15:32.000 The initial 1,547 page continuing resolution, followed by the updated simplified 116 page, I believe it was, and it's still lost, which means we're going to be coming up to a government shutdown Saturday unless there's some kind of emergency action taken, which I doubt will actually happen, but who knows?

01:15:48.000 I can't see the future.

01:15:48.000 We do have this clip.

01:15:49.000 It's really amazing from Chip Roy.

01:15:51.000 The fact of the matter is $330 billion.

01:15:54.000 Congratulations, you've added to the debt since you were given the majority again on November 5th.

01:15:59.000 It's embarrassing.

01:16:01.000 It's shameful. 0.97

01:16:02.000 Yes, I think this bill is better than it was yesterday on certain respects, but to take this bill, to take this bill yesterday and congratulate yourself because it's shorter in pages, but increases the debt by five trillion dollars is asinine. 0.90

01:16:19.000 So I'm just going to go and say, I think we all here agree with the Democrats.

01:16:22.000 It was good to strike this down unless Elad has a different opinion.

01:16:26.000 I will say, I don't have a different opinion.

01:16:28.000 Just on this Chip Roy stuff, I do think Trump was trying to lift the debt ceiling for a time period.

01:16:34.000 And then Chip Roy, who is a deficit hawk, as I understand, didn't want to do that.

01:16:39.000 And Donald Trump is now calling for him to be primaried.

01:16:42.000 Donald Trump and a lot of MAG is calling for everybody and their mother to be primaried.

01:16:46.000 My take on it is because the Republicans don't have 60 votes in the Senate, I'm not so sure that shutting the government down does anything other than make Donald Trump Put Donald Trump in a position where people are going to go ahead and say,

01:17:12.000 well, he was bad, he shut down the government, and then we ended up with a bill that had a bunch of things that we didn't like anyways, because you're not going to get it across the line with 60 votes.

01:17:20.000 You're going to have to get Democrats to vote for it.

01:17:24.000 And it's not like I'm saying that I like either of the bills that are presented.

01:17:28.000 I would love to have a truly clean continuing resolution that's very short, but...

01:17:35.000 I don't know that in the end it's going to work out where it's good for the country or for Republicans.

01:17:41.000 I think every single one of them should be primaried.

01:17:44.000 When did we do this last?

01:17:45.000 It was the 50s, right?

01:17:46.000 When like 80% of incumbents were voted out.

01:17:50.000 I don't know how many people are actually up for re-election next year.

01:17:56.000 Also, the real issue at hand here is that the Republican majority is so slim and they're unable to whip the Congress into shape.

01:18:04.000 And that's going to be a problem for Trump in the 119th Congress as well.

01:18:08.000 I think the majority came down to one seat until they hold something like three special elections.

01:18:14.000 So I think we're going to be seeing a lot more of this.

01:18:16.000 Again, unfortunately, the Democrats shouldn't have to work with Republicans in the House to get this passed.

01:18:21.000 But because of, you know, some people and their niche concerns, they're not able to get it done.

01:18:26.000 The current system is so broken, though.

01:18:28.000 I mean, it deserves people to be primaried.

01:18:31.000 It deserves a government shutdown.

01:18:33.000 All I want for Christmas is a government shutdown, personally and myself.

01:18:36.000 Permanently?

01:18:36.000 Yes, yes.

01:18:37.000 As long as it can.

01:18:39.000 Extend it, please.

01:18:40.000 I want people to actually have their voice actually matter.

01:18:44.000 We showed yesterday that it does.

01:18:46.000 What happened yesterday was a tremendous moment that I think we really need to, in retrospect, kind of think about here. 0.95

01:18:51.000 The larger implications of all the crap that they were trying to throw at us. 0.79

01:18:55.000 Like, it was just, you know, status quo. 0.96

01:18:56.000 They used to be able to get away with this, and they no longer can.

01:19:00.000 They're about to get away with it, by the way.

01:19:02.000 They're getting away with it in two weeks, three weeks.

01:19:05.000 This happens every time.

01:19:07.000 I love the idea of getting rid of the debt ceiling.

01:19:12.000 And the only reason I like that isn't because I like unlimited spending, but because this is always just theater.

01:19:19.000 It's every year, every six months, there's some kind of theater.

01:19:22.000 What we really need is to have actual substantive change in the way the Senate operates and have the ability to get rid of these omnibus bills overall, have individual bills for individual laws, have one bill just for funding.

01:19:38.000 I don't know the exact route to get that to happen.

01:19:42.000 The majorities are so slim that that's why the gridlock is here, which is why you're going to have to see some cross-party working with.

01:19:50.000 It's not anything that any of us want, either.

01:19:53.000 Nobody's saying this is a good thing.

01:19:54.000 This is probably just the reality that we're going to have to live with.

01:19:58.000 Well, the thing is, if you're not willing to get it done with the people in your party because of the rhinos, then you're going to have to work with Democrats if you don't want a shutdown, which is what's going to happen. 0.63

01:20:07.000 They're using that as leverage, and Hakeem Jeffries is milking concessions out of Johnson as a result.

01:20:13.000 Well, what's your perspective on this?

01:20:15.000 Yeah, these little battles are kind of, to me, because they're almost always in the same way.

01:20:21.000 Little battles.

01:20:23.000 It's just we go through this government shutdown thing a lot.

01:20:25.000 You think the Democrats should bail out?

01:20:26.000 He's completely right.

01:20:27.000 I do think they need to avoid a shutdown.

01:20:30.000 Like, you might have to do some stuff that were...

01:20:32.000 But you need to...

01:20:34.000 Especially going into the holidays.

01:20:36.000 But I'm expecting this a bunch of times over the next two years as Republicans have the majority.

01:20:42.000 Because right now there's that huge distinction between your more moderate Republicans and your macro-Republicans.

01:20:46.000 And this will be the issue that really...

01:20:48.000 I just don't know where Trump will fall on it.

01:20:50.000 Because I know Trump doesn't want to shut down as he's about to come into office.

01:20:52.000 No, he does.

01:20:54.000 Well, you're right.

01:20:55.000 He wants a clean resolution, but he'd rather a shutdown than have to be saddled with whatever pork and bloat.

01:21:00.000 But I don't believe any of this stuff for a second.

01:21:02.000 Like these guys were so ready to vote yes on the CR and they wanted to get it through and they don't care because the way these things work is that they all go around and say, what does it take for you to vote yes?

01:21:12.000 And then they're like, give me three million dollars for molasses testing, which is actually in it.

01:21:16.000 And they're like, OK, and it's just like it's just like a free for all.

01:21:20.000 Sweeten it up for my district.

01:21:21.000 What am I about to get right now for my district to run on in the future?

01:21:25.000 It's awful and it's unconscionable that that's the way it is, but I don't know that we're going to be able to get any kind of funding bill That doesn't have that stuff because of how slim the margins are.

01:21:36.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:21:37.000 Like I said, I'm not saying that I'm happy about this.

01:21:37.000 It's terrible.

01:21:39.000 I just don't think that...

01:21:40.000 That's what it always comes back to.

01:21:42.000 And the weak leadership, but the weak leadership is a result of the slim majority.

01:21:46.000 That's why Johnson can't really whip people into shape because how many congresspeople can he realistically lose here?

01:21:52.000 And then, do you think if he...

01:21:54.000 Because clearly Democrats with the first edition of the CR were down to vote for it.

01:21:59.000 Do you think Mike Johnson, if he ends up having to go that route again, is going to have issues since we're coming up on a speakership vote?

01:22:05.000 There's no incentive.

01:22:06.000 He's going to have to work with Democrats, and then he will be called a rhino, and then this will be water under the bridge in three months, by the way. 0.68

01:22:12.000 There's no incentive for Democrats to work with him.

01:22:15.000 Because they will milk...

01:22:17.000 No, they will milk big concessions out of time.

01:22:18.000 They work with him a lot.

01:22:20.000 Because they're going to want a lot of the stuff that's in it.

01:22:22.000 Where do you think the Ukraine funding came from?

01:22:24.000 I just...

01:22:25.000 Look, we can't play this, can we?

01:22:27.000 Come on, Democrats wanted to vote for that?

01:22:30.000 Like, the American people look at that and they're just like, what?

01:22:34.000 Well, the only reason Democrats voted no, so it was actually funny because we were watching Fox before with the live vote count, and Luke and I were both like, wait, wait, Democrats are voting no?

01:22:43.000 And then we checked and it was like, oh, they did an updated CR. Because, like, you know, I'm eating lunch or eating dinner and I'm not watching the news and then you're traveling here.

01:22:52.000 So, like, in the last few hours they introduced the new, we were surprised the Democrats were against it.

01:22:56.000 Well, the Democrats didn't vote for the smaller one because it didn't have the pork.

01:23:02.000 The Democrats want the pork.

01:23:03.000 They didn't vote for the new one.

01:23:04.000 And there's no incentive for them to vote for the smaller CR because it will make Trump look bad if it doesn't go through.

01:23:15.000 The big one, they get all the sweetheart deals, all the pork, which is what the Democrats want.

01:23:20.000 They get all the favors and stuff.

01:23:21.000 I don't see any way to get just a small bill that does what needs to be done through as long as they can blame the Republicans.

01:23:29.000 Let me ask you, look, do you think the first version should have passed?

01:23:35.000 I expect it to so much that I don't even have an opinion on it.

01:23:40.000 This is...

01:23:41.000 It's shocking to me after what we just...

01:23:44.000 I will say there are, like, I think we all agree there were important additions in there, but in terms of the 1,500 pages, you know, to your point about, or someone's, what makes these things get passed.

01:23:53.000 There's going to be stuff that's like, what the heck?

01:23:54.000 Yeah, but 1,500 pages?

01:23:56.000 They put a new law banning deepfake pornography, which is like, sure, I think that's bad too, but that should just be a bill that you vote on.

01:24:04.000 Like, why are you...

01:24:06.000 Is someone going to put in a—how about this?

01:24:08.000 Speaker Johnson, I got a pitch for you.

01:24:10.000 I can get all of the MAGA Republicans on board with signing a 1,500-page bill if you just slide in one small page that says, effective January 1st, 2025, the ATF will be abolished.

01:24:21.000 That sounds great.

01:24:22.000 They're going to be like, wait, wait, we'll take it for three months.

01:24:24.000 The sky's not going to fall if the government shuts down.

01:24:27.000 Quite the opposite is going to happen here.

01:24:28.000 We have to understand, under Reagan, the government shut down a lot.

01:24:31.000 It's okay.

01:24:32.000 I want this gridlock.

01:24:33.000 I don't want them approving a lot of this stuff.

01:24:35.000 I want to make sure that our money isn't wasted.

01:24:38.000 Our money is being inflated. 1.00

01:24:39.000 Our money is being burnt away on reckless, stupid, idiotic projects. 1.00

01:24:43.000 I want to know everything we're approving, and let's vote on it on an individual basis. 1.00

01:24:48.000 Why can't we do that?

01:24:49.000 Let's do the—if Phil wants a little bit of government, let those little incentives be voted on individually.

01:24:54.000 Let's flatten this out real quick.

01:24:56.000 The initial version of this bill, which we have pulled up right here, is 15—1,547 pages, and— What?

01:25:03.000 Like almost all but like seven Republicans were ready to vote yes.

01:25:08.000 And all the Democrats were ready to vote yes.

01:25:10.000 It's Christmas.

01:25:11.000 I don't care.

01:25:13.000 Spend a trillion dollars.

01:25:14.000 Screw the economy.

01:25:15.000 Let's leave.

01:25:16.000 And then there was a public outcry and a campaign which incorporated Trump and Elon Musk.

01:25:23.000 And it resulted in a whole bunch of Republicans saying, OK, I'm changing my vote.

01:25:28.000 Notably, Anna Paulina Luna, who reportedly had posted she has no choice but to sign this because we need the disaster relief for the victims of the natural of Hurricane Helene, etc.

01:25:37.000 And then the public backlash was no, they should be introducing a single page, one hundred billion dollar relief act.

01:25:44.000 We agree with spending money on that.

01:25:46.000 They should not be holding us hostage.

01:25:48.000 We saw 30 Republicans flip.

01:25:50.000 And this ultimately result resulted in a much smaller 116 page bill that Democrats got angry about.

01:25:58.000 That being said, however, more than enough Republicans flipped on this to where—well, actually, no, I take that back.

01:26:03.000 If the Democrats voted yes, it would have passed outright.

01:26:06.000 There would not have been nearly enough Republicans. 0.99

01:26:08.000 It is insane that Democrats and their voter base don't fucking care. 0.99

01:26:14.000 Well, they don't because they— They can blame Republicans. 1.00

01:26:17.000 That's why.

01:26:18.000 It's all because they have the ability to blame Republicans.

01:26:21.000 They actually don't care.

01:26:24.000 They're not like, oh, we need to fund the government.

01:26:26.000 They'll use all of the pork and stuff like that. 0.92

01:26:29.000 They won't talk about it.

01:26:31.000 All they've been talking about is, oh, look, Elon Musk is the president, and blah, blah, blah.

01:26:35.000 All they're doing is deflecting from the actual fact that they're the ones that could have voted to pass this smaller bill and fund the government.

01:26:45.000 But it's likely that the Republicans are going to get blamed.

01:26:48.000 So yes, it is their majority.

01:26:50.000 They blame them on everything anyway.

01:26:53.000 All of the Republicans are just as bad as all of the Democrats, except for the fact that due to the Republican voter base, it forced them to actually back down.

01:27:02.000 But the Democrat voter base did nothing.

01:27:04.000 Yeah, I think...

01:27:04.000 They're fine with it.

01:27:05.000 I was hearing two people's reactions like Democrats in Congress to that one.

01:27:09.000 They have that 1,500 one up until I think today.

01:27:12.000 And so I think for them it was we had a deal with Speaker of the House Mike Johnson.

01:27:17.000 They then introduced another one just like this and it's sort of – They had a deal that had a lot of pork and then they got rid of all the pork.

01:27:23.000 I mean that's just – So essentially what we're saying is the Democrats were like, we want to spend all this money and we want all these sweetheart deals.

01:27:32.000 And then when the Republicans said, we don't want that, we want to just fund the government.

01:27:36.000 The Republicans went to the Democrats and they all high-fived each other.

01:27:36.000 Wait, wait.

01:27:40.000 And then the Republican voter base said, we will remove you from office.

01:27:44.000 And the Democrat voter base said, yeah, we don't care at all.

01:27:46.000 Well, the Democrat voter base doesn't have that pressure from their electorate.

01:27:50.000 But because Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy and Mike Johnson and Donald Trump all had this stuff planned out and then they responded to the voter base, the Democrats didn't have that pressure because the Democrat voter base doesn't care.

01:28:06.000 They're fine with blowing out the money.

01:28:07.000 Here's how I imagine it.

01:28:09.000 The Republicans in office are looking out the window at a bunch of people with pitchforks and torches, and the Democrats are looking out the window with a bunch of people bowing to them.

01:28:19.000 Yep. 0.95

01:28:21.000 It sucks, but that's the way it is. 0.99

01:28:23.000 It sucks that this is probably going to happen. 0.96

01:28:26.000 They're probably going to get a bill similar to this in January when Trump gets into office, when he's actually sworn in.

01:28:33.000 The Republicans are going to have to come up with a I'd like to take this moment to try and articulate the problem with continuing resolutions just so that people who don't know can at least hear my argument.

01:29:04.000 So forgive me, but there are probably some people saying like, well, what's the problem?

01:29:07.000 Why can't we just have this massive spending bill?

01:29:09.000 Why is it an issue?

01:29:10.000 We can start with the easy, the dysfunction of Congress.

01:29:14.000 Congress is not supposed to be that they just rubber stamp every spending bill and take your tax dollars and produce debt to just buy literally whatever they want, like molasses testing.

01:29:25.000 You can explain to me why we need three million dollars for molasses testing.

01:29:28.000 I'm sure there's a reason someone has, but it is a reason why you, the taxpayer, should be footing the bill.

01:29:33.000 The bigger issue is mass spending bills and raising the debt ceiling just means there's going to be more national debt.

01:29:39.000 The U.S. is going to have its biggest line item interest payments, meaning your tax dollars and newly printed fractional reserve dollars are largely going to just paying off the interest to all the debts owed by the U.S. government, meaning they're going to have to tax you more.

01:29:56.000 It means that we're going to see inflation across the board because of this hypertaxation.

01:30:03.000 And ultimately, if we continue on this path, we're never going to have sound resolutions like, I don't know, we need to build the Francis Scott Key Bridge.

01:30:12.000 That collapsed.

01:30:13.000 That's a bad thing, right?

01:30:14.000 Okay, when you jam it next to a bill that bans deepfake porn and molasses testing, and you combine these things, you are going to end up with this.

01:30:24.000 The Democrats and Republicans fighting over why this is happening.

01:30:28.000 What we need is what Matt Gaetz proposed, single-issue spending bills.

01:30:31.000 They could have easily passed them all today.

01:30:33.000 $100 billion for disaster relief, we all agree.

01:30:36.000 Three million for molasses?

01:30:37.000 We're not spending three million on molasses.

01:30:37.000 No, no, no, no.

01:30:39.000 That's a weird thing. 0.97

01:30:40.000 Okay, how about this deep fake porn? 0.91

01:30:41.000 Let's debate it.

01:30:42.000 Should we ban that?

01:30:43.000 They should all be separate.

01:30:45.000 Ultimately, the simple thing is, your government in Congress doesn't actually vote on bills.

01:30:51.000 They spend most of their time fundraising.

01:30:53.000 That's why they do this.

01:30:55.000 This is a continuing resolution means...

01:30:57.000 And that's the House.

01:30:58.000 And the House, right.

01:30:59.000 We don't have an omnibus spending package.

01:31:01.000 That's insane.

01:31:02.000 Remember when they wheeled in the wagon of 5,000 pages?

01:31:05.000 Because what happens is, 90% of the time, a member of Congress is not on the floor saying, this bill is outrageous.

01:31:12.000 I oppose it.

01:31:13.000 No, it's great.

01:31:14.000 I support it.

01:31:15.000 They're in their office on the phone asking for money.

01:31:17.000 And you'll get three Democrats and three Republicans and a parliamentarian saying, what about this bill?

01:31:22.000 And they go, whatever, fine.

01:31:23.000 You get more and more weird and wacky laws in the books that make no sense.

01:31:26.000 No one does their job.

01:31:27.000 And then at the last minute, instead of even an omnibus spending package, they say, let's just continue the existing spending package and jam in 15, 1546 extra pages to get all of the things we were supposed to get for our constituencies that we never actually debated.

01:31:44.000 or argued.

01:31:44.000 The way I described it this morning, you guys ever see the movie Bruce Almighty?

01:31:48.000 Yep.

01:31:49.000 It's when Jim Carrey is getting all of the prayers, so he just says, yes to all.

01:31:54.000 And then what happens?

01:31:56.000 Nothing makes sense and it's pure chaos.

01:31:58.000 We don't have a functioning government right now.

01:32:00.000 We have members of Congress who don't do their jobs.

01:32:02.000 We have members of Congress who are spending all of the time fundraising.

01:32:05.000 And the CR is an attempt to actually get something, a notch in their belt.

01:32:08.000 So when they go home, they can say, hey, got you that molasses spending, didn't I? Vote for me.

01:32:13.000 That's 100% what it is, but as long as there's not a 60 to 40 majority in the Senate, and I don't know what the majority has to be in the House.

01:32:26.000 It's got to be like 215. I think it's a simple majority in the House.

01:32:28.000 It's a simple majority, but they need like 215 or 220 to be safe, so that way they can lose some Republicans.

01:32:34.000 So, I mean, as many as possible in the House.

01:32:36.000 So, say 230, which they don't have and they're not going to have in two years, like...

01:32:41.000 You have to deal with what, you have to play the hand you're dealt.

01:32:45.000 I wish that it wasn't this way.

01:32:47.000 I wish that the sausage making wasn't so ugly, but this is part of the reason why people get so frustrated with politics, is when you look at the realities of the situation actually in the chamber and what you have to deal with, the Democrats right now are just sitting back being like, ha ha ha, look at you Republicans, this is your mess, this is your problem.

01:33:07.000 They have no incentive to actually work for the American people, and Their constituency is also doing the same thing.

01:33:14.000 The constituency, as in the Democrat, the voters, they're like, ha ha, look at you, ha ha, they're sitting there laughing too.

01:33:22.000 So it's not about, it's not just that Congress is bad, it's that the whole left versus right thing is a massive problem.

01:33:30.000 You know, it's funny.

01:33:31.000 Well, yeah, just saying the Democrats, it would be for reasons that y'all would disagree with, but have jumped in to save, which has caused problems for these speakers politically, both McCarthy and Johnson a bunch of times.

01:33:40.000 It's not like they want to see them just hung out to dry.

01:33:42.000 They just demand concessions to do that.

01:33:45.000 You know what I mean?

01:33:46.000 They're not just obstructing for obstruction's sake.

01:33:49.000 I totally disagree with you.

01:33:51.000 Then why do they keep being the ones who help Johnson and then before that McCarthy?

01:33:56.000 Because they wouldn't be able to get a majority leader.

01:33:58.000 Running the government.

01:33:58.000 Because...

01:33:59.000 Yeah, because they want something in return.

01:34:02.000 Yeah, the Republicans have done this in the past, and everyone complains about it.

01:34:06.000 That's what I'm saying.

01:34:08.000 Well, my point is that there have been things that, because of the way these games are played, get in that I don't feel like would pass stand-alone.

01:34:18.000 That I support.

01:34:19.000 You know, so it's like the cost-benefit announcement, but there's a lot of stuff, like they were putting in pay raises and healthcare enhancements that then you disagree with.

01:34:26.000 So, I don't know.

01:34:28.000 I mean, in theory, I like the idea of a single— I don't support—personally, I don't support any of it.

01:34:33.000 Like, I'm more of the opinion of Luke, like, let it all shut—like, shut it all down.

01:34:38.000 Like, I'm in strong agreement with— What do you say to, like, the— People who need their benefits and necessary support.

01:34:46.000 When it comes to those kind of things, because I don't think that it's a good idea to just cut them off totally with no kind of warning or no plan to fix it, I would say that that stuff should be funded, but it should be phased out.

01:35:00.000 My position is...

01:35:02.000 Yes, because it's going to go away in 2033 if we don't do something about it.

01:35:02.000 Yes.

01:35:06.000 I don't understand.

01:35:08.000 That doesn't work.

01:35:09.000 The numbers don't work.

01:35:10.000 You can't just say, oh, we've got to fund it more.

01:35:11.000 No, no, we can't.

01:35:12.000 Like, a good example with Social Security, we still have the Social Security tax cap.

01:35:18.000 Yeah.

01:35:19.000 What's the number?

01:35:20.000 No, it's like $168,000.

01:35:22.000 I would want to get rid of that before we start cutting.

01:35:25.000 So essentially you would just say tax people more to pay for Social Security.

01:35:28.000 No, no, no.

01:35:28.000 This is good.

01:35:29.000 So $168,000 I think.

01:35:32.000 It's somewhere around there.

01:35:33.000 I think dollars above that should also be getting taxed for Social Security.

01:35:37.000 Do you know what Jeff Bezos' salary is?

01:35:39.000 Not that much.

01:35:41.000 His income is not that much.

01:35:42.000 Well, his payroll.

01:35:45.000 His income is high, but his payroll is low.

01:35:47.000 So he doesn't have to pay that.

01:35:49.000 For him, that wouldn't be a solution.

01:35:51.000 But my point is that if you're making $200,000 per year, it's weird to me that some of your money is not being taxed.

01:35:57.000 But if you're making $50,000 or anything under $168,000, then all of your money is being taxed.

01:36:04.000 I would do that first.

01:36:06.000 With Medicare, I do think just...

01:36:08.000 I agree.

01:36:09.000 That's just...

01:36:10.000 Yes, I am for taxes.

01:36:11.000 You can't catch your way out of the problem you've got.

01:36:13.000 But Trump's promising to come in and do another big tax cut bill.

01:36:17.000 Stuff like that.

01:36:17.000 That's great.

01:36:18.000 I don't understand.

01:36:19.000 But why aren't you worried about inflation?

01:36:20.000 Yes.

01:36:21.000 So if he's going to do his tariff plan and the mass deportation...

01:36:25.000 No, no, the tariff plan is not going to get into...

01:36:27.000 I don't mean to...

01:36:29.000 I want to go back to the point you made about Social Security.

01:36:30.000 It's a good point.

01:36:31.000 That if you make $50,000 a year...

01:36:34.000 You use 50, 100% of your income is taxed for Social Security.

01:36:38.000 If you make, you're correct, $200,000 a year, then a quarter of your income is not taxed on Social Security.

01:36:38.000 Right.

01:36:43.000 Yeah, I think that's weird.

01:36:44.000 I'm not saying I know the solution is.

01:36:45.000 I don't know if it just means tax people more, but that's a really good point.

01:36:48.000 That makes no sense.

01:36:49.000 Why are lower income people taxed at 100% of their income for Social Security and wealthier people are not?

01:36:55.000 Honest question.

01:36:56.000 I don't think just increasing, like, there's not enough rich people to tax to fund everything, but it's a great point that social security is literally where we tax the poor more.

01:37:06.000 I don't get it.

01:37:07.000 Yeah.

01:37:08.000 Well, that's a good common ground.

01:37:09.000 Yeah.

01:37:10.000 I wrote a solution.

01:37:11.000 That's not even like raising a rate.

01:37:12.000 That's just saying apply it to all.

01:37:13.000 So the reason that a tax break would be a good thing is because you actually would stimulate the economy or the intent is to stimulate the economy and an economy… That's what Trump promised last time and he ballooned his deficit, his economic… You're talking about COVID, though.

01:37:30.000 The vast majority of the issues...

01:37:33.000 Even if you remove COVID for both Biden and Trump, Trump still added twice that of Biden to the debt.

01:37:38.000 Well, I'm not sure about that.

01:37:40.000 But even still, the point is, if you have growth, then you can deal with the debt.

01:37:46.000 If you don't have growth or you have a small growth, then the debt does become a massive problem.

01:37:52.000 And in 2033, all of the...

01:37:56.000 You know, all the Social Security and stuff like that, it all becomes insolvent, and there's not enough people to tax.

01:38:00.000 You can't tax your way out of this.

01:38:02.000 You can't tax your way out of it.

01:38:04.000 Axios, Trump, Biden, debt.

01:38:06.000 You can't tax your way out of it.

01:38:07.000 I'm trying to build a graph showing all of it so we can look at the whole map of every year.

01:38:10.000 Yeah, so because I was thinking, I was asking that, I did...

01:38:15.000 You can't tax your way out.

01:38:17.000 You cannot tax enough to cover the unfunded liabilities.

01:38:23.000 The mandatory spending.

01:38:24.000 The mandatory spending that's coming?

01:38:26.000 We've mapped it out before.

01:38:27.000 It's like, with extending how many years these are solvent.

01:38:30.000 No one agrees.

01:38:31.000 The CBO says.

01:38:31.000 No, no.

01:38:33.000 The CBO says.

01:38:34.000 The Congressional Budget Office.

01:38:35.000 Hey, wait, wait.

01:38:36.000 Sorry.

01:38:37.000 Let's just look at Argentina.

01:38:38.000 Well, there you go.

01:38:39.000 Yeah.

01:38:40.000 I mean...

01:38:41.000 He got their debt to zero for the first time in like what?

01:38:44.000 Like their country's history basically?

01:38:45.000 Yeah.

01:38:47.000 So we got it as a graph!

01:38:49.000 A graph of US debt growth.

01:38:51.000 And hold on, let me pull this over.

01:38:53.000 I'm gonna see if I can extract the image and make it bigger or something.

01:38:56.000 Because this is very small.

01:38:58.000 How do I do this?

01:39:00.000 I'm downloading it and then I'm gonna load it in so that we can zoom in on it.

01:39:04.000 To your point, while you're pulling that up, It's so strange to me that we would be talking about fiscal responsibility that a lot of the MAGA folks in Congress are pretending like even though Republicans do have the worst record on the debt over the last century.

01:39:04.000 Sorry guys.

01:39:17.000 We're not talking about fiscal responsibility.

01:39:18.000 We're talking about Social Security.

01:39:19.000 There's different...

01:39:20.000 Mandatory spending isn't fiscal responsibility.

01:39:20.000 I'm saying...

01:39:20.000 No, no, no.

01:39:22.000 It isn't mandatory.

01:39:23.000 So the reason that I brought up...

01:39:23.000 Okay.

01:39:25.000 Yeah.

01:39:26.000 You could solve it.

01:39:26.000 So I addressed that.

01:39:27.000 The way that it's currently structured, you would have to supplement funding through a separate bit of legislation.

01:39:33.000 But to what we're talking about with...

01:39:37.000 With addressing debt and deficits.

01:39:38.000 First of all, they need to get consistent because Trump's record on that's horrible was one of my points.

01:39:42.000 And then also, you don't come into office if you're serious about addressing the debt and immediately decrease how much revenue the government's bringing in.

01:39:51.000 And we didn't explode out.

01:39:53.000 I'm not talking about decreasing the revenue.

01:39:55.000 That's what cutting taxes is.

01:39:57.000 So everything you talk about is always, well, Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Donald Trump.

01:40:00.000 I'm not talking about Donald Trump.

01:40:02.000 I'm talking about the CBO has forecasted that the...

01:40:07.000 Yeah, you're not hearing me.

01:40:08.000 The large spike was COVID. I actually don't know if Trump's debt was in any way more egregious than any of the past president.

01:40:17.000 It looks rather linear.

01:40:18.000 Yeah, I just think if you...

01:40:20.000 Again, since this portrays it in a different visual, Axios Trump-Biden debt should pull it up.

01:40:26.000 Yeah.

01:40:28.000 Trump does have...

01:40:29.000 I mean, he added more to the debt than any president.

01:40:33.000 But again, this one says he ran up twice the debt.

01:40:36.000 Right, right.

01:40:36.000 I don't know about that.

01:40:37.000 That's COVID. No, no.

01:40:38.000 Look, non-COVID. Oh, I see.

01:40:38.000 Exclude.

01:40:39.000 I see.

01:40:40.000 Yeah.

01:40:40.000 You're right.

01:40:41.000 Non-COVID relief.

01:40:42.000 Trump is more than double Biden.

01:40:45.000 See, Trump's position, and I don't give him credit for this one, is that you want to be underleveraged.

01:40:49.000 His idea is that you want to maintain growth above spending, and then it doesn't matter if you're...

01:40:53.000 But he failed to do that even before COVID, I think we agree.

01:40:57.000 I don't know.

01:40:58.000 I mean, the economy was doing fairly well, regardless.

01:41:00.000 But if you look at the trajectory of Obama's economy, it's not like Trump improved the performance.

01:41:08.000 Let's start with...

01:41:09.000 Because you're implying that Obama's economy carried over into Donald Trump, and that's why Donald Trump had some of a good economy.

01:41:09.000 What are you laughing about?

01:41:19.000 But all the bad things that happened because of Donald Trump...

01:41:22.000 You're not hearing me at all, at all.

01:41:24.000 I'm saying that if it were true that that tax cut bill was going to significantly—so much so that it would help to balance out how much was being added to the deficit, thus debt—if that tax cut bill would be really economically stimulating, then why didn't we see that in the data year over year going from the end of Obama to the beginning of Trump?

01:41:41.000 You would have seen a change in growth, a change in unemployment drops.

01:41:46.000 I don't know why you're laughing.

01:41:47.000 Because of a picture that someone sent to me.

01:41:50.000 It's just completely unrelated.

01:41:52.000 Totally unrelated.

01:41:53.000 Well, then I apologize for my tone.

01:41:55.000 It looks like Obama, if you remove COVID, it's hard to know for sure.

01:42:02.000 It looks like Obama's debt was slightly greater than Trump's, but COVID put Trump over everybody else.

01:42:07.000 Yep.

01:42:08.000 So tracking the Obama years, 2008. So this is the year of 2008, which that's not fair, actually.

01:42:12.000 If we go 2009, which is the first year that Obama was actually there, we're looking at like 12. And then he gets out in 2012. So it looks about 10, 10 trillion.

01:42:23.000 And then if you do Trump, it's hard to know because of COVID. There's a big spike during COVID. And he doesn't he doesn't deserve.

01:42:28.000 I don't give him a lot of credit for for COVID, especially.

01:42:31.000 But we looked at the Biden-Trump analysis, removing it, and then also Obama was recovering from the Great Recession.

01:42:31.000 Right.

01:42:38.000 The first few years of Trump were economically stable times.

01:42:43.000 This actually is kind of weird, though.

01:42:44.000 Biden starts 2021, and he's at like 27, and he ends at 35. Yeah.

01:42:54.000 So it looks like the...

01:42:56.000 Biden added a little bit less than Obama and Trump would have in the long run.

01:43:00.000 COVID makes it anomalous.

01:43:01.000 It's hard to track for sure.

01:43:04.000 So all my point is, one of the things I'm trying to understand, not understand, one of the things I'm trying to find.

01:43:11.000 All of their spending is no good.

01:43:13.000 Nobody gets credit for this one.

01:43:16.000 It's all horrible track records.

01:43:17.000 If you look at Argentina, though, specifically what they did, they slashed government spending, eliminated entire departments, they laid off bureaucrats, they cut taxes, and it fixed inflation in their country.

01:43:27.000 I don't see why we're not seeing this as the gold standard for something that we should be doing, because, of course, what you're describing is what's been happening for so freaking long, and the debt keeps going up and up and up, and you want more cancer to help with the cancer.

01:43:40.000 More taxes, more rules, more regulations, more bureaucrats, more spending.

01:43:44.000 I don't want any of that.

01:43:45.000 I want the government to act in a GoFundMe style fashion.

01:43:48.000 If we want something, let the government raise a website where they raise funds for it independently.

01:43:52.000 That's really what I ultimately want.

01:43:54.000 We're screwed. 0.88

01:43:55.000 We're in big trouble. 0.61

01:43:56.000 And there's going to be a lot of big financial repercussions coming in 2025.

01:43:59.000 And there's going to be a lot of tough situations for Donald Trump, which I don't know if he's going to be able to fix.

01:44:04.000 It's going to be World War III.

01:44:05.000 And I'll give you the real simple version. 0.98

01:44:07.000 Now that the interest on the debt is the largest line item, there's going to have to be a massive stimulus to dump money into the market so they can pay off the interest and the debt, which just devalues the currency, which means anybody holding U.S. debt is going to lose their shit, if you know what I mean. 0.81

01:44:21.000 And then, you know, Thucydides' trap, we're going to war with China. 0.96

01:44:25.000 And then hopefully after we go to war, we win. 1.00

01:44:27.000 And then we can tell them we have no more debt.

01:44:30.000 China's been awfully quiet after that, huh?

01:44:32.000 Well, most of the debt the U.S. owes is to itself.

01:44:35.000 So the debt is largely to the U.S. It's to various individuals, contracts, bonds, etc.

01:44:42.000 The government likes to make promises they can't pay because they're like, we're the U.S. government, we got guns, we'll pay you eventually.

01:44:47.000 Mm-hmm.

01:44:48.000 Nobody, not a single president we've ever had in my lifetime deserves anything related to the spending.

01:44:54.000 Republicans come out and they're like, we need to balance the budget, and then they don't.

01:44:57.000 And then Democrats come out and they say, who cares about balancing the budget?

01:45:01.000 So they don't.

01:45:02.000 And then we just keep spending until, I think the challenge for most, yeah, until the insolvency of Social Security.

01:45:08.000 Yeah, 2033 is when it's alleged to be insolvent.

01:45:11.000 That's what the CBO says.

01:45:12.000 And it doesn't matter what Donald Trump or Joe Biden did in the past.

01:45:18.000 Right now, what we're talking about is what's going to happen in the future.

01:45:21.000 And unless there are significant changes to mandatory spending, not discretionary spending, so it doesn't matter...

01:45:27.000 That we send pennies to Ukraine or pennies to Israel because in the grand scheme of it, the amount of money that we're sending to both Israel and Ukraine is irrelevant.

01:45:35.000 We need to deal with the unfunded liabilities, the mandatory spending, the Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.

01:45:41.000 They need to be restructured, but you can't touch them without everybody saying, oh, you hate grandma and want to throw her off a cliff.

01:45:47.000 My view on this is I don't know why the government should be isolated from any other market force.

01:45:55.000 If you work for a company and then you show up to work one day and your boss is like, hey, I'm sorry, we're out of business.

01:46:02.000 And you go, what?

01:46:03.000 My healthcare is gone.

01:46:04.000 It's like, yeah, I'm sorry.

01:46:05.000 Nobody's buying carpets anymore, and so we can't sustain this, and we're done, and you're not going to get paid.

01:46:09.000 But when it comes to government, they're like, I'm pretty sure there's someone somewhere we're going to point a gun at to make sure they pay so I can make sure you keep getting your Medicare.

01:46:16.000 And then they go, works for me.

01:46:19.000 Yeah, I mean, obviously it's different being a citizen versus whenever you actually own the currency and stuff.

01:46:25.000 But I agree we need to do something about it, which is why I'm critical of...

01:46:29.000 Like, it's crazy to me that back...

01:46:31.000 I don't...

01:46:33.000 We can...

01:46:33.000 Yeah, you do.

01:46:34.000 You totally want to bring up Donald Trump.

01:46:35.000 We can...

01:46:36.000 I know you want to bring up Donald Trump.

01:46:37.000 Yeah, it's just weird that you...

01:46:39.000 Is he in the room with us now?

01:46:40.000 Who do you think they're all concerned about the opinion of?

01:46:40.000 He's...

01:46:44.000 All the people in Congress who are Republicans.

01:46:45.000 I'm saying if you guys are serious...

01:46:46.000 That's great.

01:46:47.000 About the government efficiency stuff and all that.

01:46:49.000 It's so ridiculous that we do what Trump did last time, which would do the opposite of getting us closer.

01:46:54.000 Oh no, I agree, but he's not going to do what he did last time.

01:46:57.000 He's going to structure a tax cut bill.

01:46:59.000 I disagree with Donald Trump anyway.

01:47:01.000 That's good.

01:47:01.000 We need to cut taxes.

01:47:02.000 Why do you want more taxes?

01:47:04.000 You can't tax your way out of this. 0.94

01:47:06.000 That's sociopathic.

01:47:06.000 That's crazy with the way that things have been going.

01:47:08.000 It's insane.

01:47:09.000 The last one disproportionately benefited.

01:47:12.000 A lot of big companies and wealthy people, but then didn't have the returns and growth that Front promised.

01:47:17.000 So I don't think we should be sacrificing people's Social Security checks for the sake of a wealthy person's extra private jet write-off thing.

01:47:24.000 I don't agree with Donald Trump either, okay?

01:47:26.000 Because I think you need to restructure Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid.

01:47:30.000 And so that's what Donald Trump doesn't want to touch that, and I think he's wrong.

01:47:35.000 Just to get that out in the open so that way you can stop associating me with Donald Trump.

01:47:39.000 Here's the LA Times.

01:47:40.000 That's different than the amount of...

01:47:42.000 Do you want to read it?

01:47:42.000 Do I want to read it?

01:47:42.000 Yeah, you can read it.

01:47:43.000 Oh, whoever.

01:47:45.000 Do you want to read it?

01:47:46.000 Readers react.

01:47:46.000 Most American...

01:47:47.000 Most Americans got a tax cut under Trump, but the left's messaging made us believe a lie.

01:47:52.000 Okay.

01:47:52.000 Matthew Iglesias of Vox.com famously said, nobody likes to give themselves credit for this kind of messaging success, but progressive groups did a really good job of convincing people that Trump raised their taxes when facts say a clear majority got a tax cut.

01:48:03.000 Yeah, I did not say raise their taxes.

01:48:06.000 I'm not saying you did, I'm just pointing out that under Donald Trump, most people got a tax cut, and the left claimed it wasn't true.

01:48:13.000 Okay, well then...

01:48:14.000 I know that people got tax cuts who weren't wealthy, but my point is that for a priority at all to be cutting taxes in ways that disproportionately does benefit wealthy folks is wild.

01:48:24.000 It doesn't stimulate growth.

01:48:26.000 No, I don't think it stimulates growth.

01:48:27.000 If you cut taxes?

01:48:28.000 Inflation went down from 25% to 3% in just a year with Javier Mille literally proposing eliminating 90% of all taxes.

01:48:37.000 If you had 98% taxes, yes, then cutting them would stimulate growth.

01:48:40.000 But at the point where we are now, we have test cases.

01:48:43.000 We've seen Trump's last administration.

01:48:46.000 Sorry to trick you for bringing it up.

01:48:48.000 I mean, that's the only thing you got.

01:48:51.000 That's what we're talking about.

01:48:52.000 Well, I mean, that's what you were talking about all the time.

01:48:55.000 I think the issue of stimulating growth is not as simple as to say it's a tax cut or a tax raise.

01:48:55.000 Let me clarify.

01:49:00.000 No, no, no, not at all.

01:49:01.000 The issue is that it's what the government does when it comes to taxes.

01:49:05.000 Rolling back regulation would do more than a tax cut would.

01:49:08.000 So if you got rid of a lot of the regulations...

01:49:10.000 It depends on what regulations.

01:49:11.000 Well, of course it depends on what regulations, but generally...

01:49:13.000 We got it.

01:49:14.000 I had this debate with Sam Seder, and I'll take this opportunity to clarify some points.

01:49:19.000 Not that his audience cares.

01:49:20.000 But when it comes to the regulation of harmful materials, which is what we are typically referring to, like lead and stuff, I'm in agreement there should be more regulations.

01:49:27.000 I'm on the RFK Jr. train.

01:49:30.000 Phthalates, PCBs, all of these things, we didn't have a regulation.

01:49:32.000 But if we're talking about general business regulation, we were not able to open a coffee shop in two years.

01:49:38.000 Yeah.

01:49:39.000 I mean, granted, a lot of that stuff...

01:49:41.000 Actually, no, I can't speak for your...

01:49:42.000 Local ordinance.

01:49:43.000 Yeah, so...

01:49:44.000 Regulations are nuts.

01:49:45.000 A lot of times it is local and stuff like that.

01:49:47.000 But generally, regulations make it difficult to do business.

01:49:51.000 This is not some kind of difficult...

01:49:53.000 It's not some kind of crazy right-wing conspiracy to say that regulations from government make it harder to get things done.

01:49:59.000 But let's clarify too.

01:50:00.000 And it's a cost bit of analysis of how much is the consumer being protected.

01:50:04.000 Like a lot of the EPA regulations that Trump rolled back are frightening with what it allows companies to do.

01:50:10.000 Do you know why I did it?

01:50:12.000 Do I know why Trump?

01:50:13.000 He was really big on the deregulating.

01:50:15.000 Do you know why he deregulated it?

01:50:16.000 To help companies prosper.

01:50:18.000 He did, yeah.

01:50:19.000 And I don't like that trade-off.

01:50:21.000 The companies can do absolutely wonderful and also not dump toxins into waterways.

01:50:26.000 The issue was, I don't completely disagree, but the issue was that in China they don't have these regulations.

01:50:32.000 So they're basically, have you ever seen a picture from like China and the smog? 0.87

01:50:36.000 They have like that big LCD screen, LED screen, where it's like a sunrise because it's brown everywhere you go.

01:50:42.000 Yeah.

01:50:42.000 So China's attitude is basically, we do not care about the earth.

01:50:45.000 We do not care about pollution.

01:50:46.000 And Trump said, okay, we need to stop our factories and our production from going to China.

01:50:50.000 What do we do?

01:50:51.000 There's a few things you have to do.

01:50:53.000 Tariffs is one.

01:50:54.000 And deregulate.

01:50:55.000 So when Trump goes to, say, like a widget manufacturer, hypothetical, and he says, I want your factory in the United States.

01:51:01.000 What does it take to get you here instead?

01:51:03.000 And they said, Mr. President, we can't.

01:51:06.000 The regulation limits the amount of insert chemical we're allowed to have as a byproduct, so we can't do it.

01:51:11.000 China doesn't care. 1.00

01:51:12.000 Not to mention, the cost of manufacturing in China is 75% lower, and we can just ship it back here, and we make a 35% gain.

01:51:19.000 So then Trump said, okay, what if I remove some of these regulations on, say, carbon emissions and certain chemicals, allowing you to produce here?

01:51:27.000 He said, well, then we could, but we're still dealing with a cheaper product.

01:51:29.000 And he goes, if you don't, I'm putting a tariff on your product.

01:51:32.000 And then they were like, well, I mean...

01:51:35.000 That's going to cost us money.

01:51:36.000 He goes, I don't care.

01:51:37.000 So Trump launched tariffs, got into a trade war, and then deregulated in an effort to bring manufacturing back to the United States.

01:51:43.000 I'm not saying it's good or bad.

01:51:44.000 That's just what he did.

01:51:45.000 Yeah, well, and I would say, well, I understand sometimes you're, of course, wanting companies to manufacture the United States in a general sense.

01:51:53.000 Sometimes that can be beneficial, but that didn't really work for the economic system.

01:52:00.000 Just look at the trajectory.

01:52:00.000 What do you mean?

01:52:01.000 2019 was the best economy we've had in like 40 years.

01:52:03.000 Right, which was like a little inch forward across the projected economic performance that we already had projected pre-Trump coming to office.

01:52:11.000 We can't really play that game though because everyone – I look at it like – You can play it all night long.

01:52:15.000 Sure, but everybody always says – It's not that I'm saying – They said Obama's economy was miserable.

01:52:20.000 You're talking about Bush.

01:52:21.000 It's everything Bush did that made Obama's economy good.

01:52:23.000 We can't play the game.

01:52:24.000 No, no, no.

01:52:25.000 I'm saying that – I mean it's pretty fair to say when you come in office during an economic crisis and then you – it's not that obviously the presidents are doing everything.

01:52:31.000 I'm just saying if we're going to credit and blame and then you oversee recovery and then you hand a pretty good economy to somebody, they can't then because it continues on the trajectory that – again, you can look at the projections that it was set to that that's because of them.

01:52:46.000 So – Like him – Right.

01:52:48.000 When I was – If we saw this crazy economic explosion compared to the – The performance that was expected based on where things already were, then you could look into, like, was it the tax cuts?

01:52:59.000 No, no, no.

01:52:59.000 But here's why you're wrong.

01:53:01.000 It's because everything you're talking about, the recovery from Obama, it was actually Bush.

01:53:06.000 Right, but you can actually...

01:53:08.000 Everything that you're trading into Obama was actually Bush who did it.

01:53:10.000 Yeah, I haven't seen a complaint.

01:53:12.000 No, I don't think I'm making a point that if you say Trump's economy was good but Obama did it, then I just say Obama didn't do it, Bush did it.

01:53:19.000 Obama's economy was good because of quantitative easing.

01:53:22.000 Like Obama's economy was good because free money.

01:53:26.000 That's why.

01:53:26.000 Did you know that there was a whole movement against Obama in 2011 called Occupy Wall Street?

01:53:31.000 Yeah, obviously recovery.

01:53:33.000 I'm not saying economic performance is because of the president.

01:53:35.000 That's silly, but that's how people talk about politics a lot.

01:53:38.000 And so my point in y'all's argument about rollbacks of regulations or tax cuts is saying clearly because it didn't change, it didn't change the trajectory in a positive direction in any major way, these weren't steps that I like the trade-off of.

01:53:50.000 I don't like, and you said you partially agreed...

01:53:52.000 A lot of the regulation rollbacks as it pertains to the environment, because I do think that is worse for Americans living here, and the trade-off of maybe a company manufacturing here isn't worth it.

01:54:01.000 And that trade war didn't really...

01:54:03.000 There's a lot of people that are young that really have, like, are having problems finding jobs, right?

01:54:09.000 I mean, I know unemployment is low, but there's a lot of, like, there's people that are working multiple jobs and they're low-paying jobs and stuff like that.

01:54:17.000 So I'm not so sure that jobs being overseas...

01:54:22.000 Well, you were saying you don't think that...

01:54:26.000 You think that it's a good trade-off to have...

01:54:27.000 You don't have to have a good impact on manufacturing jobs in any major way.

01:54:31.000 You see it in the data.

01:54:32.000 You're saying that the manufacturing jobs that are like in China, like Tim was talking about in China and stuff like that, bringing them back here isn't worth rolling back regulations to get those jobs back.

01:54:45.000 I'm saying that would be an interesting...

01:54:47.000 An interesting philosophical conversation, but we don't have to go there because he didn't even do it effectively.

01:54:54.000 Right?

01:54:55.000 He didn't do it in any way that would change his job growth compared to Obama.

01:54:59.000 You think we should in the future?

01:55:01.000 Oh, it would depend on the individual regulation.

01:55:04.000 No, if you're dumping toxic waste into waterways.

01:55:06.000 I mean, well, generally that's kind of like a straw man.

01:55:09.000 Just be like, oh, you know, just dump toxic.

01:55:11.000 If you dump toxic waste into the water, then you'll go ahead.

01:55:15.000 I mean, let's be honest.

01:55:16.000 The regulations, a lot of them are weaponized, because if a company, if they're big enough and they have enough connections through all the regulators, they pass through their poison anyway.

01:55:24.000 Let's look at glyphosate.

01:55:25.000 Let's look at all these other things.

01:55:26.000 So poison is out there, and it's usually rubber-stamped through government that uses regulation to To stop any kind of real legitimate competitions against their buddies and their friends in the corporate world and the lobbying world.

01:55:37.000 This whole system is entirely broken, and therefore I'm like, yeah, let's just get rid of all of them because we're selecting the winners and losers in this larger kind of economy, and that's not what a government should be doing.

01:55:47.000 And that's why I'm for deregulating, ending this corruption, ending the lobbyists, ending this bullcrap and this revolving door with all the regulatory agencies and the corporations that really truly do control them.

01:55:58.000 Generally, I'm of the opinion that Luke's right.

01:56:01.000 It sounds nice when you benefit from the...

01:56:03.000 No, I mean, what I'm saying is we do have means to punish people if they pollute.

01:56:08.000 Like, property rights will cover a lot of things when it comes to if someone pollutes water, pollutes air and stuff.

01:56:16.000 Obviously, the reason that we...

01:56:18.000 Not that everyone is good.

01:56:19.000 I don't know that obviously is a good thing to start it with, but go ahead.

01:56:23.000 What?

01:56:24.000 You said obviously, as if what you're about to say was obvious to everyone and it made no sense that there was any opinion other than what you're saying.

01:56:24.000 What?

01:56:32.000 So maybe obviously isn't the great way to agree with it.

01:56:34.000 With what I'm about to say, you're going to realize that you do agree with it because I was about to say that obviously every regulation is not good.

01:56:39.000 But...

01:56:41.000 The reason that a lot of them were implemented, whenever I hear these sort of libertarian, utopian articulations of people's views, the reason we implemented these regulations is because people were being harmed by, again, the environmental impacts of companies.

01:56:55.000 It's not true that through property rights or through individual lawsuits we solve the problem.

01:57:01.000 Usually the class action lawsuits.

01:57:03.000 So while some of them can be too burdensome, the reason a lot of these have been implemented or as it pertains to banking...

01:57:09.000 Real quick, I'm going to...

01:57:11.000 So clearly if we rolled them all back, there was a time when we did and it wasn't good.

01:57:15.000 That's why we added that.

01:57:16.000 I'm going to prove you're wrong.

01:57:16.000 I don't know that's true.

01:57:17.000 I'm going to prove you're wrong, but I think you're going to agree with what I'm saying because it's actually... 0.80

01:57:21.000 I'm just being silly.

01:57:23.000 The regulations don't typically come because people are harmed. 0.81

01:57:26.000 They come because the cost of damages exceeds the cost of the regulation.

01:57:32.000 So basically, if the cost of doing nothing is cheaper than the cost of doing something, they don't do it.

01:57:38.000 You know what I mean?

01:57:38.000 Like New York, for instance, there was a guy with the Empire State Building, shot up his boss and his workers.

01:57:44.000 Tragedy walked outside and the NYPD ran up and started firing wildly and missed him and hit seven bystanders.

01:57:50.000 Everybody asked, how could this happen?

01:57:52.000 It turns out they don't really train the NYPD to use their guns properly.

01:57:55.000 Why?

01:57:56.000 The cost of training is more than the cost of the lawsuits they have to pay.

01:58:00.000 So these regulations usually emerge when the government realizes the cost of the environmental damage is greater than the loss of the economic boon they get from it.

01:58:09.000 It's all about whether they're going to make more money.

01:58:11.000 The implication of your argument is that the government acts altruistically, and I don't think that's true at all.

01:58:15.000 No, I do not believe that.

01:58:17.000 That's why you want more regulations than taxes. 0.92

01:58:19.000 So when people were harmed, the reason why the government does it is not the same thing as what prompted the chain of events that led to that.

01:58:26.000 I disagree with the argument.

01:58:28.000 So I'm saying obviously cynical politicians aren't doing things because they're just good-hearted, most of them.

01:58:34.000 No, let me just say this real quick.

01:58:36.000 If there is an environmental crisis that is killing people, the government will actually do everything in their power to cover it up.

01:58:43.000 Right.

01:58:43.000 Only when the harm reaches public outcry and the cost exceeds the revenue, then you get the regulation.

01:58:51.000 So for instance, we can talk about like unleaded gasoline because we're like, man, lead floating around everywhere is bad.

01:58:57.000 But we never really talk about, you know, Ian brings this up, brake dust.

01:59:01.000 In cities, brake dust is a huge contaminant which could be causing problems.

01:59:04.000 Because of all the cars grinding their brakes, it's flooding up in the air.

01:59:07.000 We don't regulate that.

01:59:08.000 Fluoride.

01:59:08.000 Astrazine.

01:59:09.000 We don't.

01:59:10.000 Yeah, fluoride.

01:59:10.000 In your ideal world, that and lead and everything would just be going all over the place.

01:59:15.000 Not true.

01:59:15.000 Not at all.

01:59:16.000 I think Luke is wrong.

01:59:18.000 Wait, which one?

01:59:19.000 No, I agree with this Luke, and I think Luke Rutkowski is wrong.

01:59:22.000 It's like, wait, which one?

01:59:24.000 No, I think we do need regulations.

01:59:26.000 I think right now what Javier Milley is doing is a perfect example of deregulating in a kind of sensical way where you slowly do it in a sensible way.

01:59:36.000 Obviously right now we can't go into full anarchy.

01:59:38.000 Obviously.

01:59:39.000 That's unsensible.

01:59:40.000 It doesn't make sense.

01:59:41.000 I think absolutely the free market would solve a lot of the problems, and I think the government overwhelmingly creates a lot of the problems.

01:59:48.000 And if you look at a lot of the ecological disasters, they have the rubber stamp of the government that either participates in it or covers it up afterwards and plays a major role in underbiting and screwing people over that much more.

02:00:01.000 If you look at a lot of the kind of experiments that were done, especially with radiation on people in St. Louis and all these other larger experiments, you see larger examples of the government literally spreading the poison themselves.

02:00:11.000 Would a free market capitalistic system thrive off of that?

02:00:15.000 A business would harm themselves and their enterprise and their reputation and their customer base if they hurt their customers.

02:00:15.000 No.

02:00:22.000 So therefore, I would argue overwhelmingly, and I would disagree with you, Tim, that a largely deregulated state would be a lot better than the current state of what we have with all these regulations.

02:00:32.000 Luke Rutkowski is incorrect.

02:00:33.000 That's your opinion.

02:00:34.000 I need to say only one thing.

02:00:35.000 Phthalates.

02:00:37.000 Go on.

02:00:40.000 Why is your Spindrift?

02:00:41.000 Is that your Spindrift, Luke?

02:00:42.000 No, that's yours.

02:00:43.000 The one right over there?

02:00:44.000 That's yours.

02:00:45.000 That's yours right here.

02:00:46.000 Did you drink it?

02:00:48.000 I didn't want to.

02:00:49.000 Oh.

02:00:50.000 I lost my water bottle.

02:00:53.000 All aluminum cans are lined with plastic.

02:00:55.000 I know.

02:00:55.000 Which leaches PCBs, phthalates, or whatever.

02:00:58.000 I'm not saying Spindrift.

02:00:59.000 I'm a big fan of Spindrift, by the way.

02:01:01.000 But why is it that we know these things are bad, but they're allowed to be in all our products?

02:01:06.000 Yeah.

02:01:07.000 Why?

02:01:08.000 In a totally deregulated state, the amount of things that are going to be leaching into your food are going to be...

02:01:13.000 But people still have the perception that the government cares about them.

02:01:15.000 That the government is still out there regulating everything and therefore they feel comfortable.

02:01:19.000 But if they understood, hey, it's a world where you're going to have to look out for yourself, I think that world is a lot more reasonable than the current one that we have right now.

02:01:26.000 With pretending that it actually does care, that it actually does exist in a way that actually works in your favor because a lot of people are brainwashed to believe, yeah, I'm going to the supermarket.

02:01:35.000 Everything here is hunky-dory.

02:01:36.000 Everything's here fine when there's a crap ton of poison in our food that doesn't exist anywhere else.

02:01:42.000 I don't believe that. 0.90

02:01:44.000 I think our government's corrupt largely.

02:01:46.000 Most people agree with that.

02:01:48.000 Corrupt as in either they're lazy or self-interested and not doing their jobs.

02:01:51.000 I agree with you that a lot of people think my food must be safe because the FDA has checked all of this.

02:01:56.000 Exactly.

02:01:57.000 But it's also, I believe, fair to say that if we totally deregulated, some dude's going to be like, looks like cheese to me, sells it, people are going to eat it.

02:02:05.000 How about when the radon girls were rubbing their teeth with radon because they didn't know better? 1.00

02:02:09.000 Now granted, that's an extreme thing where within a few years their jaws were falling off.

02:02:12.000 But right now we're in a civilization with tartrazine in our food, with pesticides in our food, with genetically engineered plants destroying everything.

02:02:21.000 And with thousands and thousands of regulations on top of it regulating all those industries at the same time.

02:02:26.000 But saying government is corrupt does not mean we shouldn't regulate things.

02:02:29.000 I agree with the government's corrupt.

02:02:31.000 But the government's not going to do it.

02:02:33.000 Let me put it this way, Luke.

02:02:34.000 Do you need a car mechanic when your car breaks down?

02:02:36.000 But what if your car mechanic is corrupt and he's cheating you, he's ripping you off?

02:02:41.000 You wouldn't then go, we can't have mechanics because mine keeps ripping me off.

02:02:45.000 That's oversimplification.

02:02:46.000 I think people being more reliant and understanding that the world is wild, that not everything is hunky-dory, not everything is safe, I think is a better perspective of individuals.

02:02:56.000 I think humanity is going forward and people moving forward in a way where they understand, hey...

02:03:02.000 The responsibility is on me, because ultimately it is, because we're living in this make-pretend world, and in this make-pretend world, a lot of people profit off of by lying and screwing us over.

02:03:11.000 You get rid of that incentive. 0.73

02:03:12.000 Real quick, Luke, what do you do when we do go that route, and then you end up with a sickly, diseased, mentally impaired population voting? 1.00

02:03:21.000 Don't we have that now? 0.78

02:03:22.000 Hence my point.

02:03:23.000 Yes.

02:03:23.000 We have that now.

02:03:24.000 We have that now, I would argue, especially with the mental health crisis, especially with the obesity crisis, especially with all the regulations that we have now.

02:03:31.000 I would argue that, yes, there would be some people that would win a Darwin Award, but there would also be a lot of other people that would become more self-reliant, more personally responsible, and there wouldn't be any need for them to come in and take more of your money to give us this make-pretend feeling that everything is hunky-dory.

02:03:46.000 This is a good time to quote Thomas Sowell and point out that there are no fixes.

02:03:52.000 So the amount of regulation that you have or what have you, in my opinion, there's probably too much.

02:04:00.000 I don't think that regulation stems from good people in the government wanting to do good things.

02:04:06.000 I didn't say that.

02:04:07.000 You implied that.

02:04:08.000 I said harm happens, so then there's an outcry.

02:04:11.000 I didn't use the word outcry, but he did.

02:04:13.000 But I said harm happens that prompts the government to do something.

02:04:15.000 That's the opposite.

02:04:16.000 Government harms people and that they cover it up.

02:04:20.000 Listen, let me finish here.

02:04:21.000 I disagree with your characterization that it's spawned by harm.

02:04:25.000 I think most of the time it's spawned by government and businesses colluding, trying to keep other businesses from starting up, from engaging in whatever market they want regulation.

02:04:37.000 And they draft the legislation.

02:04:38.000 And they draft the regulation.

02:04:39.000 Absolutely.

02:04:39.000 Exactly.

02:04:40.000 100%.

02:04:41.000 I'm totally in agreement about that.

02:04:43.000 So I don't think that regulation is actually meant to save people or protect people.

02:04:47.000 I think regulation is generally meant to, as a barrier to entry for people.

02:04:51.000 I mean, look at what happens when it comes to, you know, women that can't braid hair because they need a license for that. 1.00

02:04:57.000 There's all kinds of, the vast majority of regulation is that type of regulation.

02:05:01.000 Not the kind of, oh, you want to make sure the water's clean. 0.95

02:05:04.000 Most regulation is dumb and pointless for the American people.

02:05:07.000 Luke, I agree with you on principle of a lot of what you were saying with ultimately the decision and what you do is in your own hands and you have ultimate responsibility for that. 0.54

02:05:15.000 But I think it comes to, there's like a certain limiting principle on it.

02:05:18.000 So for example, there used to be no regulation on the tobacco industry and their lobbyists used to tell people that smoking actually made you more healthy and like it was good for you.

02:05:26.000 So like, I don't know, what is your take on kind of the regulation?

02:05:28.000 We're also told a lot of things are good for us, especially in our medical, in our current medical system.

02:05:33.000 And all of that is an absolute lie.

02:05:36.000 I'm talking about tobacco.

02:05:37.000 Tobacco industry specifically?

02:05:38.000 Because I know we could think of examples where it's not good, but what do you think about us trying to regulate the tobacco industry specifically?

02:05:45.000 Well, there was medical doctors that were actually telling people, that were actually bought off, telling people, yeah, smoking's great for you, smoking's awesome.

02:05:52.000 Who were they bought off by?

02:05:53.000 Of course, the lobbyists, the corporations out there, of course.

02:05:57.000 But when you look at this larger kind of scenario and situation, right, whether it's tobacco or whether it's personal choices and personal decisions that individuals want to make, they still lived in this kind of world where they said the government knows what's best for you.

02:06:10.000 Trust the government.

02:06:11.000 They have your best interests at heart.

02:06:11.000 Don't worry.

02:06:13.000 They do not, and they never did.

02:06:15.000 And there is even a lot of government that has finagled studies, lied studies.

02:06:19.000 And I can make the same counterargument there, and as Phil kind of described here with the Sowell quote here, again, there's no perfect answer here.

02:06:27.000 It's not going to be everything going perfectly like you want it to go.

02:06:31.000 There's not going to be any kind of victims or harm, obviously.

02:06:34.000 But I would argue there would be a lot less harm, a lot less victims if there was less government.

02:06:38.000 I know, but I think that's pretty clear.

02:06:40.000 I guess that's why I'm trying to argue a specific situation for that reason.

02:06:41.000 Because on the opposite spectrum here, we have a lot of forced mandates and a lot of forced products and a lot of things that are absolutely horrible for you, that rot your health, kill your health, that the government mandates and forces you and manipulates you to take.

02:06:54.000 So I would argue that same question, but I would just spin it back in that same kind of philosophical way.

02:06:59.000 I got him, Elad.

02:07:02.000 What do you think about Israel?

02:07:04.000 Should we regulate Israel? 0.98

02:07:05.000 No, we shouldn't give them any money.

02:07:07.000 We should not be giving them a dime.

02:07:09.000 We should not be spending any money.

02:07:11.000 Endorsed it.

02:07:12.000 So one thing that I want to point out, one thing that I want to say is, look, everybody knows that we have a fat society in America, that we're overweight.

02:07:19.000 We have a massive problem with type 2 diabetes and early onset diabetes.

02:07:24.000 Kids are getting diabetes.

02:07:25.000 If we got rid of the corn subsidies...

02:07:28.000 We would get rid of the high fructose corn syrup in all the food, and the amount of sugar that people intake would be reduced dramatically.

02:07:35.000 And that is because of government subsidies that we have all of the high fructose corn syrup.

02:07:40.000 That is why there are so many people that are fat.

02:07:42.000 So all of the disease, not all of, but a significant portion of the disease that we experience in the United States that people get from being overweight, from being unhealthy, is directly produced.

02:07:53.000 Attributable to government subsidies of corn because of the...

02:07:56.000 And soy as well.

02:07:58.000 And soy is another big one.

02:07:59.000 Yes, fair enough.

02:08:00.000 But the point being is we don't know how many lives would be saved over the course of the past three decades, four decades, if there were no corn subsidies.

02:08:11.000 The one thing I've learned from all of these disparate worldviews is that I think I'm just gonna vote Democrat next time and they can just make decisions for me and I'll just do whatever they want.

02:08:24.000 It's just easier, you know?

02:08:25.000 You don't gotta think.

02:08:26.000 Luke, do you like Israel or not?

02:08:28.000 This Luke.

02:08:28.000 Not that Luke.

02:08:29.000 Democrat Luke.

02:08:30.000 Yeah, do you like Israel?

02:08:30.000 I like Israel?

02:08:31.000 How do you feel about me?

02:08:32.000 Like the government of Israel or the people of Israel?

02:08:33.000 No, the country.

02:08:34.000 Does Israel have a right to exist? 1.00

02:08:37.000 Yeah, absolutely.

02:08:38.000 Sweet.

02:08:38.000 What do you think about the current Gaza war that they found themselves in China?

02:08:41.000 Yeah, he's trying to trap you.

02:08:43.000 No, I'm kidding.

02:08:45.000 Be careful, you might not be invited to the next White House Hanukkah party.

02:08:49.000 Yeah, I think way too many civilians are currently dying in Gaza.

02:08:49.000 Shalom.

02:08:53.000 But not Israel? 0.74

02:08:53.000 I mean, what's wrong with you, man? 0.74

02:08:55.000 But then, yeah, of course, prompted by October 7th, then Israel, I mean, this is, like, obvious. 0.86

02:09:03.000 Do you want me to answer? 0.96

02:09:04.000 Yeah, yeah, I'm just fucking around, though. 0.96

02:09:05.000 Oh, okay. 0.97

02:09:06.000 Should have defended itself, and then now Netanyahu is making a bunch of decisions I disagree with.

02:09:12.000 I could deal with that.

02:09:13.000 Elad, what do you think about the Palestinian people?

02:09:13.000 He's better than you two.

02:09:16.000 Do you think the Palestinian states should exist? 0.98

02:09:18.000 I think it's a myth of, I don't think they exist as a real people.

02:09:22.000 Just like trans people don't exist, I don't think the Palestinians as a people also do not exist.

02:09:26.000 That's a shocking lie going hard at the end!

02:09:29.000 What do you think about transgenders?

02:09:30.000 Do you think men can become women and vice versa? 0.91

02:09:33.000 Can they change biological sex? 0.99

02:09:36.000 But can they change their gender identity? 0.91

02:09:36.000 No. 0.91

02:09:38.000 Yeah.

02:09:39.000 So I guess what is the difference between sex and gender?

02:09:41.000 Yes, I mean, that's kind of the core of this bizarre, almost semantic debate we have.

02:09:47.000 Other than probably some weirdos online, I don't think any rational person is actually arguing that, like, biologically you all of a sudden can become a different sexist.

02:09:58.000 But then there are a lot of people who are.

02:10:00.000 Well, I said no rational person, I guess.

02:10:02.000 Well, I'll just speak for myself.

02:10:04.000 But also the Democratic Party, like Kamala Harris wasn't running on that, but y'all try to project onto her. 0.98

02:10:04.000 I don't. 0.98

02:10:08.000 And so my point is that can y'all at least engage with the argument from most, the mainstream Democratic position, is that if someone's gender identity aligns with the opposite one as what aligns with their biological sex assigned at birth...

02:10:24.000 And then they go through the extensive process and all of that.

02:10:28.000 We're going to identify them as such because it's so social.

02:10:31.000 I need to push back a little bit because I do think the mainstream position in the Democrat Party is that minors should have access to puberty blockers.

02:10:38.000 And when you don't toe this line, for example, I think there was a Democrat congressman somewhere in New England who said like, yeah, we're a little bit too entrenched in this issue.

02:10:45.000 And he got a lot of pushback on it.

02:10:47.000 But I guess my question for you would be, do you think that minors should have access to sex change?

02:10:52.000 Hormones or testosterone, people under the age of 18. Right, so definitely not surgeries.

02:10:57.000 Okay, but puberty blockers and testosterone.

02:10:58.000 The things that are more reversible and I really would, I really would say that I understand the sensitivity of this issue, which is why I want the best medical consensus to prevail, which is to say that if you demonstrate, it's not, I have to be honest, it's not studied enough.

02:11:16.000 We need more research on this, but I've seen some data that suggests pretty compellingly that if you were to not do any puberty blockers or anything with someone who has gender dysphoria, by the time they're fully through puberty and they're 18 years old, now the...

02:11:36.000 Mental implications of that for the rest of life, especially someone who's male, are much more damaging.

02:11:44.000 But I'm also not the medical professional, so I don't know.

02:11:47.000 Do you think that gender identity should be a protected class under the 1964 Civil Rights Act?

02:11:55.000 I'll rephrase it.

02:11:56.000 Do you think that businesses should have the right to discriminate on the basis of gender identity?

02:12:00.000 No.

02:12:01.000 So, like, if there's someone who's clearly biologically male, and they want to use a woman's bathroom or a woman's locker room, not even like a changing room, but like a women's only area, you think that they should be allowed to do it?

02:12:15.000 Yeah.

02:12:16.000 That's tough.

02:12:17.000 Because someone who's like, I mean we could cite examples, very transitioned.

02:12:22.000 Like Nancy Macy's obsession with the one trans congresswoman.

02:12:27.000 That makes no sense.

02:12:28.000 And what I've seen, and this has been researched, is that you actually don't see an increase in assault or harassment if...

02:12:37.000 People are going to the bathroom that aligns with their gender identity, but if you force someone who, especially if they very much appear to be the, like, one gender identity, but then they are forced to go into the one that aligns with what they were assigned at birth, that actually does increase harassment and assault.

02:12:51.000 Right.

02:12:52.000 So it seems the most logical thing is let's do what we were doing before, which is no one really...

02:12:55.000 Or ask, don't tell?

02:12:57.000 No, you just went to the one that made sense.

02:12:58.000 Well, actually...

02:12:59.000 Like, if you just start identifying some type of way, and in every way to an observer you look like a really mature man, then probably you go on the...

02:13:09.000 I largely agree, but it is difficult, so it's hard to have a specific stance.

02:13:15.000 Like, the individuals we often use for this, forgive me for saying your names, but they're like the two examples, is Buck Angel and Blair White.

02:13:21.000 Are you familiar with these individuals?

02:13:22.000 Blair White, I am.

02:13:23.000 Yeah, Blair...

02:13:24.000 Was Blair walking around?

02:13:26.000 Everyone's like, that's a young woman. 0.99

02:13:27.000 They don't realize that Blair is a trans woman.

02:13:29.000 And Buck Angel walks around like, that is a burly man.

02:13:31.000 Nobody realized that Buck is actually a trans man.

02:13:34.000 If Buck Angel walked in the women's room, you're gonna have problems. 1.00

02:13:37.000 I'm sorry, that's just true.

02:13:38.000 Buck Angel is like a gruff, bearded male, looking like a male.

02:13:43.000 And if Blair went to the men's room, guys largely wouldn't care as much other than to be like, this is weird.

02:13:47.000 You know, because guys don't feel as threatened.

02:13:49.000 And that's where the challenge comes in that I do agree with.

02:13:52.000 But the issue largely which came up in the Supreme Court arguments was that the criteria for civil rights protection is immutability.

02:14:01.000 And the argument from the trans side is that gender is mutable.

02:14:06.000 Ergo, it cannot be protected under the law, and the Supreme Court was wrong in their ruling.

02:14:10.000 What was it, 2019?

02:14:11.000 They ruled that gender identity is protected under the sex category, but gender identity is not immutable.

02:14:17.000 You can change your gender identity.

02:14:19.000 Therefore, it can't be protected under the civil rights law.

02:14:23.000 So I don't know how you handle it, but ultimately then, it doesn't matter how many trans women are in the NCAA or whatever it may be.

02:14:31.000 It's just simply, we don't care because you are not a protected class.

02:14:35.000 Yeah, I mean, this has been one that I'm...

02:14:37.000 I get upset with the weaponization of it, I'd say.

02:14:41.000 Like, it being attached in the ways that it was to Harris when her campaign was something different.

02:14:45.000 But I'm also willing to engage with it.

02:14:48.000 Well, I guess, where do you think the Harris campaign fell when it came to trans issues?

02:14:52.000 Because I feel like there's a little bit of gaslighting.

02:14:53.000 Because I do, for all intents and purposes, believe that Harris and the Democrats, writ large, do believe that people can change genders and do, writ large, support...

02:15:02.000 Oh, okay, so...

02:15:03.000 But we just made the distinction as to why I believe that.

02:15:06.000 Okay, so Kamala Harris and her campaign did support that stuff.

02:15:09.000 But, like, we all...

02:15:10.000 You mean identity.

02:15:11.000 You mean identity.

02:15:12.000 Yeah, but that's, like, synonymous with gender. 0.99

02:15:15.000 I don't think it's misleading...

02:15:16.000 But to liberals, not to conservatives.

02:15:17.000 Sex spirit.

02:15:18.000 And so we're just trying to draw...

02:15:18.000 Right.

02:15:19.000 Like, we're trying to understand each other.

02:15:20.000 I'm not saying you were wrong to use the words of yours.

02:15:22.000 What were we saying wrong about the Kamala Harris campaign, then?

02:15:24.000 Oh, just that, like, she never made that a topic of her campaign. 0.60

02:15:27.000 That wasn't on her policy agenda.

02:15:29.000 She's not seeking to... 0.94

02:15:29.000 No. 0.94

02:15:30.000 It's fair to say that she never made it a topic of her campaign, but it's not fair to say that it's not something that was made very public by Democrats consistently.

02:15:40.000 Kamala in the past had been in favor of it.

02:15:42.000 She didn't use it in her campaign of gender surgeries, notably when she said we want to give illegal immigrants entertainment transgender surgeries.

02:15:49.000 She publicly said it.

02:15:50.000 I think you're totally right that her campaign did not say these things.

02:15:55.000 That's why it's important we have free speech in this country so we were able to inform people, hey, she's dodging this issue. 0.98

02:16:01.000 She's very much in favor of these things.

02:16:02.000 She just won't say it because she knows it's a losing issue.

02:16:04.000 Even if you look at what Biden and Harris, I guess, the administration has done on the issue, it's not like they're to the far left of the issue.

02:16:12.000 There have been things they've done that have kind of walked the line we're talking about that pissed off both sides.

02:16:17.000 I think Jazz Jennings' mother should be in federal prison.

02:16:21.000 Let's see if Ron DeSantis...

02:16:22.000 Are they still in Florida?

02:16:24.000 Yeah, they never did anything about that.

02:16:26.000 Man.

02:16:27.000 Let me see if I can pull this up.

02:16:31.000 Yeah, it's...

02:16:32.000 I take issue with the idea that there's a separation between gender and biological sex.

02:16:38.000 I used to think...

02:16:39.000 Just like Blair White. 0.96

02:16:40.000 Hey, let me finish here.

02:16:41.000 I used to be fine with the idea of gender and stuff, but the more you actually think about it, it really does boil down to, like, sex spirit.

02:16:49.000 Because it's something that...

02:16:50.000 No one can really define what a gender is.

02:16:52.000 How you express yourself.

02:16:53.000 Is it just the clothes that you wear?

02:16:55.000 It's the way that you carry yourself?

02:16:57.000 With her, I'm worried about like her mental well-being and her dilation.

02:17:03.000 The minute she leaves my house, we have a dilation problem. 0.99

02:17:07.000 That is a concern.

02:17:08.000 We don't have that watchful eye.

02:17:10.000 They tend to go back to old patterns.

02:17:13.000 I have woken Jazz out of a dead sleep.

02:17:16.000 - Quiet. 0.99

02:17:17.000 - Put the dilator and put the lubrication on it and said, here, you take this and you put it in your vagina, if not, I will. 1.00

02:17:22.000 - But Jazz is out. 0.99

02:17:23.000 - I wanna go back.

02:17:24.000 - You have lubrication on it, - What? 0.99

02:17:26.000 - I'm taking the dilator, Jazz, out of a dead sleep, and taking the dilator and put the lubrication on it and said, here, you take this and you put it in your vagina, What is this? 1.00

02:17:36.000 What is this? 0.98

02:17:38.000 Jazz Jennings, do you know who that is?

02:17:40.000 One of the first trans kids was identified in the press at seven years old as being a trans child.

02:17:46.000 Was given puberty blockers and then multiple surgeries to graft what they call a neo-vagina. 1.00

02:17:52.000 I believe they used stomach lining to do it. 0.91

02:17:54.000 There were multiple complications resulting in severe depression and morbid obesity.

02:18:00.000 And this is from the TLC. I believe it's TLC. I don't know.

02:18:03.000 It's from the reality TV show.

02:18:04.000 Where Jazz Denning's mother says that if Jazz doesn't want to do this, she will wake up in the dead of night and tell her to do it or she will.

02:18:12.000 This woman should be in prison. 1.00

02:18:13.000 If a man was caught on camera saying, I wake my wife at the middle of the night and I say, you stick this in you right now and if you don't, I will.

02:18:20.000 That guy would go to jail.

02:18:21.000 But for some reason, this is considered normal and acceptable.

02:18:21.000 Yep.

02:18:24.000 This is like an old show.

02:18:26.000 It's been in the air for a long time.

02:18:27.000 We are looking at, with Jazz Jennings and as well as many other people, systemic child abuse to an extreme degree that has largely been defended by the Democratic Party.

02:18:38.000 They don't acknowledge this.

02:18:38.000 I'm not surprised you don't know what this is.

02:18:40.000 This doesn't circulate in liberal circles.

02:18:43.000 I guess they don't watch the show or whatever.

02:18:45.000 But then you have another really great example, of course, is the book Genderqueer.

02:18:50.000 the right was calling for banning books.

02:18:51.000 It's like, well, yeah, the ones that have porn in them.

02:18:54.000 Yeah, but that was like, there were so many, because we've looked at those lists.

02:18:58.000 I think you would agree.

02:18:59.000 What gets grabbed up in those banning sprees are not just porn books.

02:19:05.000 Somebody wants to ban a book that's like...

02:19:07.000 No, but it's like random.

02:19:08.000 There were like random ones.

02:19:10.000 Right, right, right.

02:19:11.000 Somebody wants to ban some random book that has nothing to do with weird adult materials, then we're in agreement. 1.00

02:19:17.000 That's stupid. 0.99

02:19:18.000 But when Emma Vigeland of Majority Report outright stated she wanted children to have access to descriptive scat materials, I'm like, okay, you must be a pedophile. 1.00

02:19:27.000 And then she was like, how dare you call me that?

02:19:29.000 And then they were like, could you believe Tim Pool called it?

02:19:31.000 And I'm like, a grown woman said she wanted to give little kids books on what scat means.

02:19:35.000 What am I supposed to call her?

02:19:36.000 I don't know.

02:19:37.000 She publicly stated it.

02:19:39.000 What do you do? 0.57

02:19:40.000 Do you ever hear of a book, This Book is Gay? 0.77

02:19:43.000 Mm-mm.

02:19:44.000 So a teacher gave it to her middle school students.

02:19:47.000 The parents called the police on her for it because the book was describing how to use Grindr for 12-year-olds.

02:19:52.000 Like, why would you do that?

02:19:55.000 Yeah.

02:19:56.000 Why would Emma Vigeland in Majority Report be like, that's a good thing for kids to have? 1.00

02:20:01.000 They're a big YouTube show, right?

02:20:04.000 And so this is the problem we have.

02:20:06.000 Someone comes to me and says like, hey, here's a book about like an auto mechanic who, you know, is engaging in questionable behaviors.

02:20:15.000 It's probably like a teenage novel.

02:20:16.000 I'd be like, I don't know if that should be banned.

02:20:18.000 Maybe we should look through it.

02:20:19.000 What's the rating on it?

02:20:19.000 Doesn't seem too adult.

02:20:21.000 Then you look at genderqueer, which is rating is actually 18 plus and they're giving it to 10 year olds.

02:20:25.000 And it's like, yeah, okay, well, we shouldn't do that.

02:20:27.000 And then they say, we're trying to ban books.

02:20:28.000 So it's stuff like that.

02:20:30.000 We don't need to rehash it.

02:20:31.000 But this video, I hope everybody sees.

02:20:33.000 And I hope everybody hears what she said. 0.99

02:20:38.000 I have woken Jazz out of a dead sleep and taken the dilator and put the lubrication on it and said, here, you take this and you put it in your vagina. 1.00

02:20:46.000 If not, I will. 0.99

02:20:47.000 But Joss is back.

02:20:48.000 That's sickening.

02:20:49.000 She lives in Florida and they've never done anything about this.

02:20:51.000 Yeah, that's absolutely just insane.

02:20:53.000 And that's child abuse. 0.83

02:20:54.000 But look, the opposite of that is happening.

02:20:57.000 You know, these people aren't being held accountable.

02:20:59.000 Parents in Canada, parents in Europe are literally being sent to jail because they don't want to go along with the mutilation of their children.

02:21:08.000 What do you think about those specific laws and this overreach of government that goes into people's personal lives and says, you know what, your child is going to not be able to have children forever because they just were influenced by either what they saw or the school or their peers that was kind of propagandized to them that essentially eugenicizes them.

02:21:29.000 So I can't speak to what Canada is doing.

02:21:32.000 But in the United States, I know I've seen multiple examples of laws supposedly that were getting passed that would do stuff like that.

02:21:38.000 And when I looked at them, that's not what they were doing.

02:21:40.000 But I just think this is something, as we hopefully all agree, that number one, if you're underage, there needs to be some reversibility to it.

02:21:51.000 Oh, God, I think we're all in agreement with that.

02:21:52.000 She was underage.

02:21:52.000 Yeah.

02:21:53.000 She was underage the whole time.

02:21:54.000 There isn't.

02:21:55.000 There isn't.

02:21:55.000 You can't reverse it.

02:21:55.000 I'm with you.

02:21:56.000 You can't reverse it.

02:21:57.000 Puberty blockers are not reversible.

02:21:58.000 That's not true.

02:21:59.000 Well, that's not the...

02:22:01.000 So let's just start it like this.

02:22:03.000 With the overwhelming research on this, but...

02:22:06.000 Let's just...

02:22:06.000 7 to 10 years old.

02:22:07.000 Let's just say, 7 to 10 years old, what happens to a child?

02:22:07.000 Wait, wait, hold on.

02:22:10.000 What happens to a child?

02:22:11.000 So, so, so.

02:22:11.000 Right.

02:22:12.000 Like if they, if they're having gender problems. 0.56

02:22:14.000 Basically, the reason why they're saying puberty blockers are reversible is that you can stop taking them.

02:22:19.000 But at a certain point, if you, so if you're on puberty blockers, your body is still growing.

02:22:25.000 It's just not developing secondary sex characteristics and other things associated with the hormones, like your joints, your eyes, etc., your bone density.

02:22:33.000 So they say it's reversible because you can stop taking it and you live.

02:22:38.000 It's not reversible in the sense that you will never get back the years 10 through 12 to be able to develop bone density as you're growing.

02:22:44.000 So that, that's not reversible.

02:22:46.000 Yeah, I would just pull up the research.

02:22:48.000 My point is that I don't think I'm the best expert on this.

02:22:53.000 And so that's why, and I don't think y'all are either.

02:22:56.000 And I don't think the government probably will be best to make calls on which things are appropriate when, other than given our current laws around adulthood, I think permanent surgeries would do off the table.

02:23:07.000 But then...

02:23:09.000 What about for adults?

02:23:10.000 As it's studied, I want to see, because I know that on the other end of the spectrum, like this is one end of the spectrum, right?

02:23:15.000 We all agree is wrong.

02:23:17.000 On the other end is people who live much worse quality of lives, and then it's improved greatly, their suicidal ideation, etc.

02:23:26.000 I got to stop you right there.

02:23:27.000 It was actually the trans man who argued at the Supreme Court said that's not true.

02:23:31.000 Again, I'm just talking about the research.

02:23:34.000 No, no, no, no.

02:23:34.000 The ACLU's transgender lawyer arguing on behalf of trans kids that there is no evidence to suggest suicidal ideation decreases with transgender treatment.

02:23:41.000 I don't think you're hearing what I'm saying.

02:23:44.000 I'm saying depending on the medical consensus after thorough research should drive our approach to this.

02:23:51.000 Just like any other issue and the obsession on this one with it being taken out of the hands of doctors and families as opposed to any other treatment kids get.

02:24:01.000 Confuses me.

02:24:02.000 But I'm not the expert, so don't pick my brain on it.

02:24:05.000 Let's give it to an actual transgender individual who argued at the Supreme Court from City Journal.

02:24:10.000 An astonishing moment took place yesterday at the Supreme Court, this is from two weeks ago, during oral arguments in U.S. v.

02:24:15.000 Scrimetti, the case that challenges Tennessee's ban on pediatric sex change procedures.

02:24:18.000 Chase Strongio, the American Civil Liberties Union attorney, admitted to Justice Samuel Alito that the narrative around the risk of suicide in trans-identified youth is false.

02:24:27.000 Before Alito and Strongio's exchange, Justice Sonia Sotomayor had asked U.S. Solicitor General Elizabeth Proligar about minors with gender dysphoria who attempt suicide.

02:24:34.000 Proligar responded that the rates of suicide, not attempts, but actual death by suicide in that population, are striking.

02:24:39.000 Given the government's support for puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones as treatments for gender dysphoric youth, the clear implication of Proligar's remarks was that such interventions are known to prevent these tragic and interview common events.

02:24:49.000 So this claim, the rates of suicide among gender dysphoric young people are high, constitutes a trans-suicide myth.

02:24:55.000 When it was Strongio's turn, Justice Alito asked, Do you maintain that the procedures and medications in question reduce the risk of suicide?

02:25:02.000 The transgender identifying attorney responded, I do, Justice Alito, maintain that the medications in question reduce the risk of depression, anxiety, and suicidality, which are all indicators of potential suicide.

02:25:13.000 Note that Alito asked about suicide and Sranjo answered about suicidality.

02:25:16.000 the latter of which refers to thoughts or intent of attempted suicide.

02:25:20.000 Though suicide would be preceded by suicidality, research does not show that suicidality is a reliable predictor of suicide.

02:25:27.000 According to the CDC, in 2022, for every one person who committed suicide, 270 people seriously thought about suicide and 33 attempted.

02:25:35.000 Strangio's pivot to suicidality is a standard tactic, etc., etc.

02:25:38.000 Then came Mr. Strangio's remarkable concession.

02:25:41.000 What I think that is referring to here is there is no evidence in some in these studies that the treatment reduces completed suicide.

02:25:49.000 And the reason for that is completed suicide, thankfully, admittedly, is rare.

02:25:52.000 And we're talking about a very small population of individuals with studies that don't necessarily have completed suicides within them.

02:25:56.000 However, there are multiple studies in long-term longitudinal studies that do show that there is a reduction in suicidality.

02:26:03.000 This was actually a very big moment.

02:26:04.000 That's what I said.

02:26:05.000 I said suicidality.

02:26:05.000 Did you hear me?

02:26:06.000 But suicidality is not suicide.

02:26:08.000 I understand that.

02:26:09.000 Right, right.

02:26:09.000 I'm saying this is a mental phenomenon.

02:26:13.000 So then it's going to be treated and then you're going to check back like we do with any other thing that relates to the psychology of someone on how psychologically they're being impacted.

02:26:22.000 I'm not going to put this on you, but generally speaking, this is what we would call a Mott and Bailey argument where the left has repeatedly said you can either have a transgender daughter or a dead son.

02:26:32.000 Implying that they will commit suicide.

02:26:34.000 As we know, that's not true.

02:26:36.000 Suicidality is depression and thoughts of suicide, not actual attempts.

02:26:39.000 Well, because he's in front of the Supreme Court, this person is being very specific about what the research has shown.

02:26:45.000 And the sample group is so tiny that, yeah, you're not going to see in how long it's been studied probably actual suicidal outcomes.

02:26:54.000 But that doesn't take away from if you reduce suicidality.

02:26:59.000 You presume that people are less likely to commit suicide.

02:27:03.000 I just think what we do know, whether the science is limited or not, is that desistance rates can be from 65 to 95 percent.

02:27:11.000 You're familiar with desistance?

02:27:12.000 Like regretting it?

02:27:14.000 No, no, no.

02:27:16.000 Detransition would be the result of someone saying regretting the decision.

02:27:20.000 Desistance is if a kid is 10 and they say they're trans.

02:27:24.000 Desistance is when they simply just stop.

02:27:27.000 So this is extremely common.

02:27:28.000 They say the rates are between 65 and 95. Stop what?

02:27:31.000 They stop being gender dysphoric.

02:27:33.000 Oh, yeah.

02:27:34.000 It's called desistance.

02:27:35.000 So they don't go through any medical transition.

02:27:36.000 They don't go through any social transition.

02:27:38.000 They literally just after a few years say, yeah, that's not the case.

02:27:41.000 I don't know.

02:27:42.000 And that's, yeah, that's a part of the process that they're walked through.

02:27:45.000 But this is where they should be without any intervention.

02:27:48.000 So if the reality is, let's just go to the low on 65%.

02:27:52.000 If 65% of genders for kids desist after puberty, then what's the point of any intervention? 0.71

02:28:00.000 Yeah, because the other massive percentage left over are the ones who then go through with treatment.

02:28:10.000 Right, so it could be 95%.

02:28:12.000 I'm saying for the sake of argument, we could lose 65%, but I think it's like 95% desist.

02:28:16.000 That makes sense.

02:28:17.000 Like, people throughout their life, a pretty large, not large percentage, a much larger percentage of people than who will end up being trans the rest of their life will have, like, confusions and dysphoria, and then ultimately they don't.

02:28:29.000 Right.

02:28:29.000 Desist.

02:28:30.000 Which means if you have two 10-year-olds.

02:28:31.000 Then there are people who don't, and then those are the ones who end up being trans the rest of their life.

02:28:34.000 Yeah, so then we shouldn't give children any treatment or any intervention in any way, whether it be surgical or not.

02:28:34.000 Okay.

02:28:40.000 Yeah, I've already articulated my position.

02:28:43.000 So no social transitioning either?

02:28:44.000 No, no, no.

02:28:45.000 Oh, no.

02:28:46.000 Well, no, and I'm saying that based on the research that we're getting, if the medical consensus is such that the best thing for the psychological outcome of a child are treatments that we disagree on the reversibility of, then that's probably the best thing.

02:29:02.000 We've gone way over, and we have a flight at 6 in the morning, so I've got to wrap it.

02:29:05.000 But I really do appreciate you hanging out and going over with us and coming on.

02:29:10.000 And I really do respect that you came here.

02:29:12.000 It is pretty awesome.

02:29:13.000 I'm glad we found some things we agreed on, and I know we disagreed on a lot.

02:29:17.000 But I think it's great.

02:29:18.000 I really appreciate it.

02:29:18.000 Better than most of the left.

02:29:19.000 Thanks.

02:29:20.000 Yeah, that's why we said before, we're like, we like you.

02:29:21.000 You know, there's other guys here, you know.

02:29:23.000 But smash the like button.

02:29:24.000 Share the show with everyone you know.

02:29:25.000 Become a member at TimCast.com.

02:29:26.000 We're getting on a plane first thing in the morning, so we were supposed to wrap and then not do a members only, but I'm, you know, I'm bad at this.

02:29:32.000 But we had fun.

02:29:33.000 We had fun.

02:29:34.000 We're going to be at AmFest tomorrow.

02:29:35.000 You can follow me on Instagram at TimCast, whatever.

02:29:37.000 I think I said it.

02:29:37.000 Luke, do you want to shout anything out?

02:29:39.000 Just Luke Bezos on YouTube is where you find me.

02:29:40.000 Thanks for having me.

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02:29:44.000 We're doing a range day for our members on February 1st.

02:29:44.000 Sign up.

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02:29:54.000 I am Elad Eliyahu.

02:29:56.000 Catch me under that, under all platforms.

02:29:59.000 Luke, thank you so much for being on.

02:30:00.000 You look like you've been through the ringer, though.

02:30:02.000 What do you got over there?

02:30:04.000 I've been up since too early.

02:30:05.000 Sorry, I'm crashing hard.

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02:30:12.000 The band is All That Remains on January 31st, 2025. Yeah, that's the right date.

02:30:17.000 January 31st, 2025. The new record's coming out number 10. It's called Anti-Fragile.

02:30:22.000 You can go to my X page and you can pre-order it.

02:30:25.000 You can go to YouTube, Amazon Music, Apple Music, Spotify, Pandora, and Deezer to check out some new music from that.

02:30:31.000 You can find Forever Cold, Let You Go, No Tomorrow in Divine, and don't forget, The Left Lane is for Crime.

02:30:36.000 Buy stuff from Luke.

02:30:38.000 I'll just wrap with saying I do apologize to everybody on not getting through Super Chats and not having it.

02:30:43.000 I felt like there was a lot of great debate questions and ideas that were going through that would just be interrupted by that.

02:30:50.000 And I do genuinely apologize because I feel that is somewhat disrespectful.

02:30:54.000 So I do genuinely apologize.

02:30:55.000 I just felt like we were on a roll.

02:30:57.000 We were having a good time.

02:30:59.000 We went over half an hour because I thought it was a great opportunity to do so.

02:31:02.000 But I appreciate everybody for being here and for Super Chatting.

02:31:06.000 And again, I sincerely apologize.

02:31:09.000 Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everybody.

02:31:11.000 Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everybody.

02:31:12.000 I know it's not much consolation because I know you did Super Chat, but I just thought we had a great opportunity to keep going.

02:31:18.000 So again, I sincerely mean it.

02:31:19.000 We'll see you all tomorrow night.

Timcast IRL - Tim Pool - December 20, 2024

Nick Fuentes NEARLY ASSASSINATED, Man Took 3 Lives, MANGIONE EFFECT w-Luke Beasley | Timcast IRL

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