Timcast IRL - Tim Pool - Sunday Uncensored: Ben Shapiro & Jonathan Isaac BONUS Segments Back To Back

00:00:00.000 Welcome to our special weekend show, Sunday Uncensored.

00:00:04.000 Every week, we produce four uncensored episodes of the TimCast IRL podcast exclusively at TimCast.com, and we're going to bring you the most important for our weekend show.

00:00:15.000 If you want to check out more segments just like this, become a member at TimCast.com.

00:00:19.000 Now, enjoy the show.

00:00:22.000 Right now, we are hanging out for a special interview with Jonathan Isaac, who is an NBA star who refused to kneel for Black Lives Matter.

00:00:31.000 He's publishing a book called Why I Stand, and I'm just reading about this.

00:00:36.000 I am so impressed by your willingness to stand up for what you believe in.

00:00:40.000 There's so much crazy stuff about this story.

00:00:44.000 First and foremost, I'll tell you why I get fired up seeing your story, Jonathan.

00:00:47.000 Because a lot of people refuse to stand up, even when deep down they deeply believe something.

00:00:52.000 And that's all you got to do.

00:00:53.000 Everybody just stood up for what they believed in.

00:00:55.000 Things would be better.

00:00:57.000 So here's your story where everyone around you is kneeling for the national anthem.

00:01:01.000 Which is crazy to me because it's the national anthem.

00:01:04.000 Every sporting event we have, they sing the song, special guests come out and sing it.

00:01:10.000 How do we get to this point where all of a sudden you're supposed to be kneeling?

00:01:13.000 During this.

00:01:15.000 And that you, standing up for what you believe in, which is essentially like a long-standing American tradition, becomes this profound statement.

00:01:22.000 I'm impressed by your willingness to defy the crowd because of what you know is right.

00:01:28.000 So let's just jump into your story, I suppose.

00:01:31.000 Of course, we also have Ian.

00:01:32.000 He's hanging out as well.

00:01:33.000 Hi, everyone.

00:01:34.000 And I want to learn your story, man.

00:01:35.000 So tell me what's going on.

00:01:37.000 Yeah, so first off, just thank you so much for having me on.

00:01:39.000 I'm a fan of everything that you guys are doing.

00:01:43.000 So I would say to kind of just wrap it up in a whole thing of how it all makes sense.

00:01:50.000 So around the time of the whole Black Lives Matter thing, George Floyd, as tragic as it was and as awful as it was, goes down.

00:01:58.000 And then there's the whole Play of black lives matter everywhere. 0.82

00:02:04.000 Everyone is pledging their allegiance to Black Lives Matter on the organization and early on in the process.

00:02:11.000 I never felt comfortable Standing in that arena, you know, I'm a Christian.

00:02:16.000 I feel that Christ is ultimately the answer for the world's problems That's me.

00:02:20.000 That's what I've I've grown up on and what I've come to truly believe later in my life here is now and And I never felt comfortable professing that in the Black Lives Matter space.

00:02:30.000 And so as everything got kind of just worked up, we get to the NBA bubble and there's the pressure that everyone is going to take this stand.

00:02:37.000 They're going to kneel and they're going to wear a Black Lives Matter t-shirt.

00:02:40.000 And I had made the decision that that's not what I want to do.

00:02:43.000 I don't believe in it.

00:02:44.000 I didn't believe that the Black Lives Matter spirit in terms of what they were ultimately trying to do Went hand in hand with where I was in my heart.

00:02:52.000 And I decided not to.

00:02:54.000 So obviously it was super crazy.

00:02:57.000 A bunch of, you know, people feeling the way that they felt about me deciding to stand came out and it just, we get to the point we are now about writing this book about the story of why I stood.

00:03:08.000 The backstory of who Jonathan Isaac is, what has gone on in his life to get to this point of standing and offering that as the remedy to the situation we find ourselves in now.

00:03:17.000 Isn't it crazy that it was, you know, several years ago, Colin Kaepernick, he kneels, and he gets criticism for it, and we're in this moment where we're like, oh, you can't do that.

00:03:26.000 Now it's inverted!

00:03:28.000 Now everybody's kneeling, and you're standing up like, I'm not gonna kneel for this.

00:03:31.000 And now there's a story behind standing up and refusing to bend with the crowd.

00:03:36.000 It's interesting in how this trend quickly swept across sports.

00:03:41.000 And to that point, when Conley Kaepernick did kneel, the NBA itself, you know, we had a team meeting, we had everything, and they said, you're not allowed to kneel.

00:03:50.000 We're not going for it.

00:03:52.000 We're not going to kneel.

00:03:53.000 It's not what we're doing.

00:03:54.000 And even though they didn't, the teams didn't come out and say, it's something that you're absolutely not allowed to do.

00:03:59.000 It was absolutely the sentiment of like, we're not doing that.

00:04:01.000 We're going to focus on basketball.

00:04:02.000 We're going to play.

00:04:03.000 That was the sentiment, especially in our team meeting.

00:04:05.000 And then to have it flip, you know, two years later and everybody like, We have no choice. 0.90

00:04:10.000 And that was ultimately my issue, part of my issue, where the feeling was you either did this, and if you did it, you agreed, you stood with black lives, you cared about black people, and if you didn't, you were an enemy, and you were evil, and you didn't care.

00:04:24.000 And the sentiment was, wearing a t-shirt and kneeling for the national anthem, do not go hand-in-hand with supporting black lives.

00:04:29.000 It's not the only way to support black lives, because when I look at my life, my life has been supported by Christ.

00:04:34.000 And that's the message that I wrote on.

00:04:37.000 So tell me your quick life story, I guess, how you came to be in the NBA.

00:04:41.000 What was it like growing up for you?

00:04:43.000 So I grew up in Bronx, New York.

00:04:46.000 Family was super Christian.

00:04:47.000 We were in church all the time.

00:04:49.000 My dad was super into it.

00:04:51.000 I got into basketball when I left New York and moved to Florida, where my parents had split up.

00:04:56.000 There I started playing organized basketball, AAU, started falling in love with the game, really finding my identity in the game, getting liked, getting cared about, having people gravitate around me because of basketball.

00:05:10.000 So I started to really just fall in love with it.

00:05:12.000 And worked extremely, extremely hard at it.

00:05:14.000 Went to Florida State for a year, got drafted, and ended up in Orlando.

00:05:19.000 So when you were growing up, how would you describe your experience?

00:05:22.000 And I'm asking you from the context of Black Lives Matter, right?

00:05:25.000 So you're a young black kid growing up in the Bronx playing basketball, and we hear this narrative from BLM that this country is racist, white privilege, all that stuff.

00:05:34.000 Considering that you didn't take a knee for it, I'm curious as to your thoughts, based on your life experience, about the general narrative from Black Lives Matter.

00:05:41.000 Not the underlying politics, which we know gets deeper, but...

00:05:44.000 Yeah, I would say there's two parts to that.

00:05:46.000 I would say growing up in New York, it was definitely something that we were taught about, you know, as kids, you know, there's certain things that you want to watch out for.

00:05:53.000 You want to make sure you're respectable to police.

00:05:55.000 You want to make sure you're not out here causing any trouble.

00:05:58.000 but my family household was definitely, I would say, unspokenly on a conservative trend

00:06:04.000 in terms of work really hard, compete in the workplace, compete in what you're doing,

00:06:09.000 become the best that you can be, and ultimately that God is gonna take care of the rest.

00:06:13.000 If you trust in God, you're gonna get to exactly where you need to be, where you're supposed to be,

00:06:16.000 and there's not an outside pressure that can take away from that.

00:06:21.000 There's not something that trumps God being in your life and ultimately guiding you into where you're supposed to be.

00:06:26.000 And then when it comes to Black Lives Matter, it's the sentiment that the only problem when it comes to black inequality is racism.

00:06:35.000 And that's ultimately, not ultimately, but a part of what I would say I reject.

00:06:40.000 So I don't know if you guys have seen, I'm sure you guys have the Jordan Peterson interview with, what was her name?

00:06:46.000 I just had her name in my head.

00:06:48.000 Kathy Newman?

00:06:49.000 Kathy Newman.

00:06:49.000 Oh, right, right, right.

00:06:51.000 And what he's trying to get across to her is that it's the notion that sexism is the only reason why there's inequality in pay between women and men.

00:07:01.000 And does it account for something?

00:07:03.000 Yes.

00:07:04.000 But is it everything?

00:07:05.000 No.

00:07:05.000 And I would say the strand of the Black Lives Matter is to teach you or to get you to believe that racism is the only reason for inequality between black and whites.

00:07:14.000 They actually say it's a I think Ibram X. Kendi.

00:07:17.000 He says it's not a question of did racism happen happen.

00:07:20.000 It's how did racism manifest that is to say that that is to say in any circumstance.

00:07:26.000 There's always racism present and to me that's that that that's a crazy thought but it also forces people.

00:07:32.000 I think what it ends up doing, this narrative that we see from Critical Race Theory and Black Lives Matter, is you're basically telling people success is out of your reach due to things you can't control, but that's just not true.

00:07:44.000 You can succeed if you work hard, and I think you're an example of that.

00:07:49.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:07:50.000 putting in the work to become an NBA basketball player, grinding every day, and just almost the work being

00:07:55.000 in my hands, it being my job and my duty to go out there and work to become who I wanna be.

00:08:01.000 And I even wanna say, the overarching theme in the book is love.

00:08:06.000 It's saying that as I've become the man that I am today and growing in the love that God has for me

00:08:12.000 and walking that out, I'm believing that if we could truly love each other, black, white,

00:08:16.000 and different over our deficiencies of what we do wrong, the destructiveness of both sides, we could get ahead.

00:08:24.000 And so the book is saying that because of, I'm gonna show you how Christ's love has been manifested

00:08:29.000 in my life, and I believe that that love is gonna be what really changes the world for the better.

00:08:34.000 What's the book called?

00:08:35.000 Why I Stand.

00:08:37.000 When did you finish writing it?

00:08:39.000 We finished writing it... Shoot, that's a good question.

00:08:42.000 I would say towards the... What month is it now?

00:08:47.000 April?

00:08:47.000 I would say towards the beginning of this year.

00:08:50.000 So around December, January.

00:08:52.000 How long did you spend writing it?

00:08:53.000 About a year.

00:08:54.000 Wow.

00:08:55.000 I can't write a book, man.

00:08:56.000 I don't know how people do it.

00:08:57.000 Yeah, did you have other people helping you write it?

00:08:58.000 I had another person help me write it, Amy.

00:09:01.000 She's fantastic.

00:09:02.000 She helped me write it, but just, we had time.

00:09:04.000 So a part of the, you know, kind of the blessing in disguise from the injury is that I had down time to just focus on my rehab and work through this book.

00:09:12.000 What was the injury?

00:09:12.000 I tore my ACL.

00:09:14.000 Oh! 0.60

00:09:15.000 Yeah, I think I had an ACL tear at some point.

00:09:17.000 You told me earlier that you got injured and I was like, oh okay, well we'll hear about that.

00:09:20.000 An ACL tear?

00:09:21.000 Yeah.

00:09:21.000 Was that on the side of the knee or something?

00:09:23.000 Right in the middle, right?

00:09:24.000 Right in the middle.

00:09:25.000 I've been skateboarding my whole life and the ACL tear is the dreaded injury.

00:09:31.000 It's definitely a lot different than what it used to be in terms of, you know, obviously back then and today, you hear ACL and it's like, oh my gosh, it's the most dreaded thing.

00:09:37.000 But, you know, where we are today, you know, you get about a year and some change and you're good.

00:09:41.000 You get like the PRP injections, platelet-rich plasma?

00:09:45.000 We didn't do that, but, you know, the whole thing, it's good now.

00:09:50.000 We're pretty much ready to roll into next season.

00:09:52.000 So, Colin Kaepernick experiences a big backlash when he takes a knee.

00:09:57.000 I'm wondering if now that the narrative's kind of inverted, and you're the only one, you know, standing up basically, are you getting flak from other players?

00:10:05.000 Are you getting anger from activists?

00:10:07.000 Are they mad at you?

00:10:08.000 Uh, I would say yeah, it's definitely a part of it.

00:10:12.000 There's a little part in the book where I talk about directly after I stood and there was a whole team meeting that I got kind of pulled into and it was about me and my decision to stand and that I was hijacking the narrative of what they were trying to

00:10:27.000 accomplish.

00:10:28.000 And ultimately what the sentiment was there for me is that I respected your decision to kneel.

00:10:33.000 When we had that team meeting and we said this is what we're going to do,

00:10:36.000 I didn't say, well why the heck are you guys doing that?

00:10:38.000 Give me your reason and everything like that.

00:10:40.000 But that's all that I wanted in return. So we were able to walk away from that meeting.

00:10:44.000 So do you consider yourself conservative, right-wing?

00:10:47.000 I would consider myself, I've tried my best to allow my Christianity to guide my principles

00:10:55.000 and ultimately what it is that I believe. I I believe in the love of Christ.

00:10:59.000 I believe in obviously the tenets of the Bible and what it teaches.

00:11:03.000 And I think that it's definitely caused me to lean on the conservative side on a lot of those different issues.

00:11:08.000 But I wouldn't come out right saying I'm conservative, I'm Republican.

00:11:12.000 To me, it kind of feels like we're seeing a lot more intolerance from the left, I guess as you'd call it, however you want to define it, in that you say, I respect your decision to kneel, you know, do your thing, they get mad at you for not doing it.

00:11:26.000 And we see similar things in a lot of different facets.

00:11:29.000 We often see, I mean, in terms of guns.

00:11:32.000 In blue states, where I understand they got high gun crime and they want to try and solve that, Okay, fine.

00:11:37.000 But then why do you want a law over red states, where it's rural and very different?

00:11:40.000 It seems like there's constantly a, you know, you gotta live this way, you gotta do what we wanna do.

00:11:44.000 And it used to be, when I was younger, at least the perspective was that the right was more, like, that more moral authoritarian.

00:11:49.000 Now it's kind of flipped.

00:11:51.000 And I'm sitting here talking to people at the Daily Wire, more conservatives, who are very much like, I disagree with you, but pursue your happiness, do your thing.

00:11:58.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:12:00.000 I think there's definitely a trend on the left that is like, we are so tolerant.

00:12:04.000 We're not authoritarian, but it really is the complete opposite, where we want you to be tolerant towards us, but we don't have to be tolerant towards you.

00:12:14.000 And so that's definitely the strain that's coming out of the left.

00:12:16.000 And you're not telling people they got to stand or anything like that.

00:12:18.000 You're just doing your thing.

00:12:19.000 You're staying true to yourself.

00:12:20.000 Absolutely.

00:12:21.000 It was it was projected to be a symbol.

00:12:23.000 It was projected to be us kneeling and wearing this t-shirt.

00:12:27.000 We're symbolizing support for black lives.

00:12:29.000 But when it's a symbol, everybody doesn't have to go along with their symbol.

00:12:32.000 Once it becomes you have to do this, then it's no longer a symbol.

00:12:35.000 In my opinion, it's a command.

00:12:37.000 And that is what I was rejecting.

00:12:38.000 So by standing, was this more a statement in support of the pledge or was it just a statement not in support of Black Lives Matter?

00:12:46.000 I would say both.

00:12:48.000 Definitely not in support of Black Lives Matter, but at the same time, I love the country that I live in.

00:12:54.000 One of the things that we're taught in church all the time is that you haven't done everything right, but you haven't done everything wrong either in terms of striving to be better.

00:13:03.000 And I think that that's a sentiment that's lost when it comes to America.

00:13:05.000 I love to live in America, the freedoms that we've been granted, and obviously everything hasn't been done right in terms of the history, but everything hasn't been done wrong either in terms of taking the steps for us to help.

00:13:16.000 Progressing get to where we are today.

00:13:17.000 Yeah when it comes to terms of like racism and systemic racism with BLM and things like that I I think we talked a lot about this actually on the show The history of like slave slavery in the United States was like an African slave trade So the people that came over happened to have that skin color, but it was just those were the slaves that were brought They could have been from Ireland.

00:13:35.000 They could have been from you know wherever Middle East or whatever but so the ancestors of those people it's like a class issue like the great-grandfathers of slave or the great-grandchildren of slaves The family wealth that's passed down is there's not a lot of wealth passed down because or or Education maybe isn't passed down because a lot of times your parents will be the ones that teach you when you're young and so it's misrepresented as a racial issue when it's more of like a class issue that happens to be

00:14:01.000 Those people from that place.

00:14:03.000 And so to say that it's the skin color that causes it just drives me insane. 1.00

00:14:07.000 I don't know if you agree with that or what.

00:14:09.000 I would say it's both.

00:14:10.000 I think it's definitely a class issue but especially when you get into the Jim Crow era and that it definitely became a much about the skin color of like black versus white and hating blackness in a sense for sure.

00:14:24.000 So I would say it's both.

00:14:25.000 I would say as it is today in terms of definitely the tone of Hey, it's Kimberly Fletcher here from Moms4America with some very exciting news.

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00:15:43.000 hate of blackness has decreased and now it is definitely become more of a class issue

00:15:53.000 and if we're able to kind of break down those barriers of education um to me getting back

00:15:59.000 to god in the first place we can see a huge increase and that's that's also in

00:16:04.000 The different, you know, people that are dark skinned that are over in America today, the West Indians, the Nigerians that come over and do really, really well.

00:16:10.000 If we could adopt some of those family principles, education principles, along with, like I said, for me, the biggest point is getting back to Christ in the first place.

00:16:19.000 You know, I think we could see much more progress than we've seen when other than beating the racism horse.

00:16:25.000 I completely agree with how you put it.

00:16:27.000 I think when you look at the past, there was absolutely racism.

00:16:31.000 It was absolutely, somebody would look at someone, see the color of their skin, and immediately just be like, I have a problem with that.

00:16:36.000 Today, there's elements of that, absolutely.

00:16:39.000 People are racist.

00:16:40.000 But I always tell people at this point, it's a class issue.

00:16:43.000 I do think, in my view on this, and maybe I'm wrong, but because of the historical racism that we saw with slavery through Jim Crow and all that, you've got less generational wealth that's passed down, which results in a pronounced class issue today.

00:16:57.000 But we've passed a bunch of these laws to make all of the race-based stuff illegal. 0.98

00:17:00.000 What scares me is, I feel like we've made a tremendous amount of progress from the 60s and the 70s and the 80s.

00:17:05.000 Not perfect, but we've done a tremendously, a great job.

00:17:09.000 It is illegal to discriminate on the basis of race in, say, housing or whatever, or school.

00:17:12.000 But now, we're actually seeing, there was an article I saw earlier about a woman, a white, progressive, liberal woman, saying, segregated classrooms are a good thing.

00:17:22.000 And I'm like, that kind of sounds like going backwards, and it's part of the problem.

00:17:25.000 I want people all to hang out together and be comfortable hanging out with each other and being happy with each other.

00:17:30.000 Her argument was, white people have white-only spaces by default, because there's so many white people, they'll go into a room, and it's only white people, and that's not fair to black people, so there should be spaces that don't allow white people, and I'm like, No, I mean, like, I get it if it's a private thing and you want to hang out and do whatever you want, sure, that the clan can have their rallies, whatever, I don't like that.

00:17:54.000 Like, I'm not going to hang out with those people.

00:17:56.000 But in public institutions and public accommodation, I actually enjoy being with people from various backgrounds.

00:18:02.000 I don't understand how they're the ones claiming they're arguing for diversity while simultaneously trying to put forward these things that create, like, POC and non-POC spaces.

00:18:10.000 Did you see the, it's hilarious, the video, I don't know who put it out, some comedian, but he's pretty much conflating the similarities between the racist and the woke.

00:18:20.000 Ryan Long, he's a friend of ours, yeah.

00:18:23.000 And the sentiment of that is even, even take the justice, the lady justice that just got nominated.

00:18:30.000 Katonji Brown.

00:18:31.000 Katonji Brown.

00:18:32.000 It's like, with this narrative of it's impossible to get ahead, it's impossible to be black and have opportunities and stuff, here you have someone, you may not agree with their ideology or anything, somebody who has ascended to the highest court, it's like, it doesn't make sense, it doesn't complete, and if racism was such an issue, it didn't prevail in that case.

00:18:54.000 Well, I mean, look at Thurgood Marshall, for instance.

00:18:57.000 I believe he was the first black Supreme Court justice, and this was back in, what, the 60s, I think?

00:19:01.000 Yeah.

00:19:01.000 Then you have Clarence Thomas.

00:19:04.000 And the funny thing is, they put up these articles, they were like, Etanji Brown Jackson is the first black Supreme Court justice.

00:19:09.000 And I'm like, Clarence Thomas is still alive.

00:19:11.000 He's still here.

00:19:13.000 And then you get Bill Maher.

00:19:14.000 Bill Maher said, Republicans would be happy with no black Supreme Court justices.

00:19:19.000 And the funniest thing was this Republican guy got a viral tweet. 0.79

00:19:22.000 He said, literally, the black one is the only one I like. 0.58

00:19:24.000 I saw that.

00:19:28.000 It frustrates me seeing how the left is... I think many of these politicians, many of these personalities, not all of them, I think they're scared to give up racism because it empowers them.

00:19:39.000 To go to people and say, you are constrained by this problem and only I can solve your problems.

00:19:43.000 Yeah, I don't like the victimization tactic.

00:19:47.000 That's what I feel like Black Lives Matter is doing, maybe not even intentionally, maybe it's intentional or not, but saying that because of the way you look, you're gonna have a harder time. 0.83

00:19:55.000 I don't think that it's the skin color that's causing it.

00:20:01.000 There might be reasons why people... But like you said, if you try hard, it doesn't matter what your skin looks like, your eyeballs are telling the story. 0.95

00:20:08.000 Well, I think... I have no problem... Actually, I don't know if you said that.

00:20:13.000 I said that.

00:20:13.000 I don't know if you said that.

00:20:14.000 I don't want to put words in your mouth.

00:20:15.000 I got no problem if there's anyone of any race and they say the United States is a majority white country.

00:20:21.000 And that means there's going to be assumptions made about you.

00:20:24.000 That means some people might be racist.

00:20:26.000 But, if you work hard enough, if you work smart enough, and you figure out how this system works, you can be the richest person on the planet.

00:20:33.000 You can be successful, you can be famous.

00:20:36.000 That will not be, you know, race... I mean...

00:20:41.000 Any factor if you're born with your height.

00:20:42.000 Muggsy Bows, for instance.

00:20:43.000 Bows, am I pronouncing it wrong?

00:20:44.000 Yeah, you're right.

00:20:45.000 That dude, he's an inspiration my whole life.

00:20:48.000 Because when I heard, what was he, 5'3"?

00:20:50.000 Yeah.

00:20:51.000 And he could 360 dunk?

00:20:52.000 He could jump higher than his own height.

00:20:54.000 And I'm like, you see?

00:20:55.000 This is a guy, there's so many people who are like, I can't do this because of this thing.

00:21:00.000 And it's like, man.

00:21:01.000 Maybe.

00:21:02.000 Maybe there's some limitations, you know?

00:21:03.000 Maybe you're not going to be tall enough to play.

00:21:05.000 But there are people who defy those odds and say, I will do whatever it takes.

00:21:08.000 I will work hard and overcome any of these presumptions.

00:21:12.000 That's what I want to know.

00:21:12.000 What was your work ethic like when you got to Florida and you started playing ball and you realized, I'm going to do this for a living?

00:21:18.000 I just fell in love with it.

00:21:19.000 Basketball really became a love for me and so it was all I did.

00:21:22.000 I woke up and I went to the courts and I played from sunup to sundown every day, all the time.

00:21:28.000 Got with friends, organized, let's play here, let's play here.

00:21:31.000 And it just became, I just got better.

00:21:34.000 But there wasn't even a thought of anything outside of that.

00:21:37.000 There wasn't fear of somebody stopping me from making it.

00:21:42.000 It was just that I love this game and I'm going to play it.

00:21:45.000 And I honestly just got passed along from one stage to the next and here I am in the NBA.

00:21:50.000 Not everybody can be in the NBA.

00:21:51.000 True.

00:21:52.000 It might be like Ben Shapiro.

00:21:54.000 I don't think it's going to happen for him.

00:21:56.000 You never know.

00:21:56.000 But that's the reality of life, too, is that as much as some people might say, oh, there's some physical disadvantage you have that's holding you back, well, sometimes you have advantages, too.

00:22:06.000 The way I view life is we're all dealt this hand of cards.

00:22:10.000 And I've seen people win poker hands with the worst possible hand because they knew how to play it right.

00:22:15.000 How much of it do you think is physical gifts that get you in the NBA versus work ethic?

00:22:21.000 I would say it's a lot of things in a whole.

00:22:23.000 It's absolutely, if you average out NBA players, we are a specific build, we are a specific height across the board.

00:22:31.000 And in that same group of guys, you also have probably the most, the hardest working guys who have kind of risen to the top in their different fields and or different positions and stuff in different places in the country.

00:22:43.000 And their physicality goes in that as well.

00:22:46.000 But then there's another piece in terms of just mentality.

00:22:48.000 Being able to block out the noise, being able to block out the distractions, being able to focus in on this one thing really hard.

00:22:55.000 The NBA is a culmination of all those different things and guys that are different heights, come from different places.

00:23:00.000 They're usually the hardest working guys with the best attributes and the best mentality that have got them to that place.

00:23:06.000 Do you think other players, you know, so you're standing, I see this photo of these other guys kneeling.

00:23:10.000 Do they all support Black Lives Matter?

00:23:13.000 I would say no.

00:23:14.000 I would say, and I would say that because of the sentiment.

00:23:17.000 When we had that conversation about what it is that we're going to do in terms of are we going to kneel or are we going to stand, it wasn't that everyone was saying, man, I care so much about this issue and I'm so in line with the Black Lives Matter movement that I want to kneel. 0.93

00:23:30.000 That was definitely the sentiment from a couple guys, but the rest of them was that we don't have a choice.

00:23:36.000 It was that either you do this or you do not care about black people.

00:23:40.000 The first question that I got asked after I stood in the press conference was, do you even believe that black lives matter? 0.98

00:23:46.000 And I'm like, and I'm like, I'm thinking in my head, like, wait, you're a part of the problem.

00:23:51.000 You're a part of the problem because in your mind, you're conflating a t-shirt and kneeling for the national anthem with the very care for black lives. 0.65

00:23:57.000 And to me, that's it.

00:23:57.000 They don't go together.

00:23:58.000 Who asked you that?

00:24:01.000 I don't remember the reporter's name.

00:24:02.000 Probably some white woman, I imagine? 1.00

00:24:04.000 No, she wasn't white, but it was a woman. 1.00

00:24:08.000 I'm pretty sure she was a black woman, but it was just the first question out of the gate. 0.74

00:24:11.000 You didn't kneel.

00:24:11.000 You didn't wear a t-shirt.

00:24:12.000 Do you even care?

00:24:13.000 How crazy?

00:24:13.000 This blows my mind.

00:24:15.000 You're black. 1.00

00:24:16.000 Exactly. 0.99

00:24:16.000 How could you ask somebody that? 0.99

00:24:19.000 Candace Owens, they say that she's... They tell us that only white people can be racist. 1.00

00:24:24.000 Then they tell us Candace Owens is a white supremacist. 1.00

00:24:26.000 And I'm just like, I don't want to hear it, man.

00:24:29.000 I want to hang out with people.

00:24:31.000 I think people are cool people.

00:24:32.000 I don't think race determines whether someone's cool or not.

00:24:35.000 I think some people are cool and some people are bad people. 1.00

00:24:37.000 There's bad white people, bad Mexican people, bad Asian people, bad black people. 0.99

00:24:41.000 There's good black people. 1.00

00:24:42.000 There's good Asians.

00:24:43.000 Just because people are all different types.

00:24:46.000 I just, what really, really bugs me about the whole thing we've seen in the past several years of the rise of critical race theory is the hyper-focus on race and, you know, specifically in this example, if you don't take an action in support of a brand, of a non-profit, it's a statement about your morals as pertaining to a racial group of people, And that's exactly what it was.

00:25:10.000 Because of the name, because of the name Black Lives Matter, you forget that it is in support of an organization.

00:25:16.000 And organizations have ethos, they have ideologies, and now you have the same organization going and buying a six million dollar house.

00:25:23.000 So it's like, when something as tragic as a George Floyd happens, and they're able to put out this phrase or this slogan that says Black Lives Matter, it's like, how could you not jump on board with this?

00:25:35.000 Of course Black Lives Matter, of course this was a Of course, this was a terrible moment in time of a black man being killed.

00:25:43.000 Cops, racist or not, it was awful.

00:25:47.000 But everybody agrees with that.

00:25:49.000 So it's like you distance yourself from the organization and just come through with the phrase that everybody agrees with.

00:25:56.000 And that was ultimately, I'm thinking about the organization.

00:25:58.000 I'm thinking about what the organization stands for.

00:26:00.000 I'm thinking about that the organization is against God and against family and against all these different things.

00:26:04.000 That's not something that I can support.

00:26:06.000 They are.

00:26:07.000 They head on their website, disrupting the nuclear family. 0.85

00:26:11.000 That, to me, you know, I personally believe in God.

00:26:15.000 I was Catholic a little bit growing up, but I don't consider myself religious, like, theistic.

00:26:20.000 I just believe that there is a God is the simplest way to explain it.

00:26:23.000 But I also recognize the importance of some kind of faith for people.

00:26:28.000 And without that, they turn to tribalist, critical race theory.

00:26:32.000 They try and find purpose somewhere, and they get this weird facsimile of it.

00:26:36.000 I also think that family is extremely important.

00:26:39.000 I had two parents.

00:26:40.000 I grew up in a house with two loving parents who helped me become a better person, and I think that's a major advantage.

00:26:47.000 So when I see Black Lives Matter say, disrupt the nuclear family, when I see these articles written by feminists who say, if feminism is to succeed, we must end monogamy or the family or something like that, I'm like, that's going to be really, really bad for kids.

00:27:02.000 It's a political statement made by a non-profit corporation, basically.

00:27:06.000 Like, what you're saying, if you really want to help black people and black lives, and you're in a room with thousands of people, and I've got all this money, I'm not, if I turn and give money just to the black people, it's going to cause resentment amongst all the other people, and then it's going to disprove, it's going to make it worse for those people that I gave the money to, because they're going to become, like, hated by the others.

00:27:25.000 You want to improve everybody's life together, and then it improves black lives, and white, and everybody can rise up. 0.98

00:27:30.000 But I do understand the systemic Class problem that we're having from the slavery issue.

00:27:36.000 Let me elaborate on that because what I think what's happening now, you know, we had serious racism in this country for a long time, even up to the 80s.

00:27:43.000 Are you familiar with blockbusting and redlining? 0.98

00:27:45.000 Redlining, not so much blockbusting.

00:27:46.000 Blockbusting is dark stuff, man. 0.93

00:27:49.000 So, what would happen is, a real estate company would go to a white neighborhood, buy a house, and then move a black family in. 0.89

00:27:57.000 They would then go door-to-door to the white families and say, oh, look who just moved in, your property value is gonna go down now, you better sell to us before it's too late. 0.69

00:28:05.000 They would, it's crazy that they would do this.

00:28:09.000 And then the white people would get scared and they'd start selling their houses.

00:28:13.000 And then once the real estate company bought up a bunch of the houses, 0.80

00:28:17.000 they would say, thank you to the black family, your lease is up, you can leave now. 1.00

00:28:20.000 And then sell all the houses back at the profit. 0.97

00:28:22.000 They would use racism and the fear of racism to rip people off. 0.61

00:28:27.000 And it was destructive to the black families. 0.96

00:28:29.000 It was destructive to these white families. 0.98

00:28:32.000 That was happening up until the 80s.

00:28:35.000 That stuff, it's dark stuff.

00:28:38.000 And redlining, too.

00:28:40.000 Now, some people try to argue, oh no, it was all a victim of market forces, and I'm like, yo, we know people did this.

00:28:46.000 Like, there's stories, it was in the 80s it was happening.

00:28:48.000 But here's my point, what I'm trying to get to with your point.

00:28:52.000 We made that illegal.

00:28:53.000 You can't do that anymore.

00:28:54.000 You can try.

00:28:55.000 There may still be remnants of it.

00:28:57.000 You can try.

00:28:57.000 It's illegal, and people will come after you.

00:29:00.000 You will get sued. 0.84

00:29:01.000 So this means, now that we've said, by law, like, we don't want this to happen anymore, you've got poor white people on the South Side of Chicago, living alongside poor black people. 0.91

00:29:11.000 All of a sudden, Democrat comes along and says, we're gonna give all the black people money.

00:29:15.000 And the poor, you know, white person is sitting there wondering, like, why am I starving?

00:29:20.000 Me and my neighbor are both people, but he's being given money and I'm not.

00:29:25.000 I think the issue is we've dealt with it policy-wise.

00:29:29.000 There's still, I think, some policy, you know, things that we could probably accomplish.

00:29:33.000 We've not solved every problem in the world.

00:29:35.000 But I think it's a class issue today that is solved.

00:29:38.000 If the issue is that black communities in this country are disproportionately impacted by historical racism, then it would be true today that a class-based solution would disproportionately benefit black families, and that should be That should make the left and the right happy, because it's not a race-based issue anymore. 0.53

00:29:55.000 There may be, you know, out of nine families in one block that are black families that are impoverished, there's one that's white, or whatever the number might be, but everybody gets an opportunity to be lifted up and be helped out.

00:30:07.000 For some reason, the modern left is not okay with that.

00:30:09.000 You know, in California, they tried repealing the provision from their constitution that prohibited racial discrimination in college and public contracting.

00:30:19.000 And I just think that's them walking us backwards.

00:30:22.000 They're gonna bring the problems of racism back.

00:30:24.000 How deep do you go into it in the book?

00:30:26.000 In terms of?

00:30:27.000 Well, the history of, basically the history from slavery to now the history of racism and classism.

00:30:33.000 You know, honestly not so much.

00:30:34.000 The book is mainly about, again, about the love of Christ.

00:30:38.000 It's about Taking where we're at and ultimately all the problems that we have that are not just racism, just world problems in a whole, but saying that if each of us could find the answer in loving our neighbor, loving someone who has done wrong to us, loving someone who we don't like or anything like that, we would ultimately see progress.

00:30:59.000 before all of these other things come into play.

00:31:01.000 And it's an interpersonal answer of affecting one person, then affecting a family, then affecting a city,

00:31:07.000 then affecting a society, and ultimately the world.

00:31:10.000 Do you know who Darryl Davis is?

00:31:12.000 No.

00:31:13.000 Hey guys, Josh Hammer here, the host of America on Trial with Josh Hammer,

00:31:17.000 a podcast for the First Podcast Network.

00:31:20.000 Look, there are a lot of shows out there that are explaining the political news cycle, what's happening on the Hill, the this, the that.

00:31:26.000 There are no other shows that are cutting straight to the point when it comes to the unprecedented lawfare, debilitating and affecting the 2024 presidential election.

00:31:35.000 We do all of that every single day right here on America on Trial with Josh Hammer.

00:31:39.000 Subscribe and download your episodes wherever you get your podcasts.

00:31:42.000 It's America on Trial with Josh Hammer.

00:31:44.000 He's this black jazz musician.

00:31:47.000 One day he went to a Klan rally and he said he thought to himself, how could this person hate me if they never met me? 0.82

00:31:54.000 So he shows up and people are, they're a bunch of racists, but he starts talking to them.

00:32:00.000 In his time, I think he's been doing this for a couple decades, he's de-radicalized like 200 Klan members.

00:32:05.000 They've taken their robes off, they say, I was totally wrong about being racist.

00:32:09.000 He didn't do it by starting a movement, waving flags.

00:32:12.000 He didn't do it by going on TV and making demands of government.

00:32:15.000 He did it by going to an individual person and saying, hey, I'm Daryl, nice to meet you.

00:32:19.000 And he tells these stories.

00:32:20.000 One of these stories is amazing.

00:32:22.000 He's hanging out with this high-ranking Klan member.

00:32:25.000 And then it turns out this Klan member is a huge rock and roll fan.

00:32:29.000 Well, Daryl's a blues musician.

00:32:30.000 He's got connections.

00:32:31.000 And he's like, oh yeah, that famous Cadillac you really like?

00:32:34.000 Yeah, I know the guys who have it.

00:32:35.000 You want to take a ride in it?

00:32:36.000 Or you want to sit down in it and check it out?

00:32:38.000 And he's like, are you kidding me?

00:32:39.000 It's a dream come true.

00:32:40.000 And he's like, come with me, man.

00:32:41.000 And then this guy's like, all of these things they told me about race and racism was not true.

00:32:47.000 Darryl's a great guy who's a good friend of mine.

00:32:50.000 Just by being friends, talking to these people, he made them not racist.

00:32:55.000 Right.

00:32:56.000 That's the amazing story.

00:32:57.000 And taking him to that car and letting him ride in it, that would be, in my opinion, an action of love.

00:33:02.000 An action of extending an arm across the aisle that's saying, I don't believe all of this other stuff that people are saying.

00:33:07.000 I want to get to know you.

00:33:09.000 I want to know who you are.

00:33:10.000 And extending that love.

00:33:11.000 And if you get it in return, amazing.

00:33:13.000 If you don't, you keep on loving.

00:33:15.000 And I believe that that is the it's the message that has helped get us to this point in terms of Martin Luther King about you overcome evil with good and love ultimately and not fighting back in the way that is riots and these other things but ultimately finding it in your heart to love your neighbor because you've been loved by God.

00:33:32.000 I believe it's going to be the how we progress.

00:33:34.000 I saw a tweet from a prominent atheist personality, I'll just leave it at that, and he said that he's tired of playing on defense.

00:33:41.000 He says every Bible must be sold with a warning label that it says it may lead to mental derangement.

00:33:47.000 And that's crazy to me because Here we are having a conversation.

00:33:52.000 Every conversation I've had with any prominent religious person, obviously not every person is a good person no matter what their religion is, is a similar message to what you're saying.

00:34:01.000 Love your neighbor and try and be your best.

00:34:04.000 You know, our good friend Seamus, who we have on the show, is a very, very devout Catholic.

00:34:08.000 There's a lot of things he does not agree with and he thinks are wrong.

00:34:11.000 But he doesn't force himself upon people.

00:34:15.000 He doesn't attack people.

00:34:15.000 He doesn't insult them.

00:34:17.000 Well, we all insult people, especially when we do comedy, but he doesn't attack people and scream and he's not vile.

00:34:23.000 He's like, I want you to do better with your life and I wish you would do better.

00:34:27.000 I wonder how it is that, you know, the narrative from the left, perhaps it's because they want to do away with Christianity, they want to attack it at its core.

00:34:35.000 They keep pushing these lines about what Christians believe, but then you actually sit down with any prominent religious individual and they're talking about love and forgiveness and trying to reach across the aisle and things like that.

00:34:48.000 I'd agree with you in terms of it being about Christianity and it's ultimately the one to attack. 1.00

00:34:54.000 You don't hear much about attacking other religions, even Islam or anything like that.

00:34:59.000 It really is the Christian ethic of love and ultimately the morality of it that gets attacked because the left wants to do away with all of that and just live in a state of what feels right for you.

00:35:11.000 Why do you think that is?

00:35:13.000 I believe because Christianity is true.

00:35:17.000 I truly believe that that is the, it's the relationship with God that is based on God loving us in our sin

00:35:25.000 and working our way to us and not us working our way to him.

00:35:29.000 And it being, and the crux of it being about love, I believe is the reason why that it gets attacked

00:35:35.000 in the way that it is.

00:35:36.000 And because even if you go through it, the people who do attack it know that it's true.

00:35:40.000 And it's ultimately the one that you have to contend with.

00:35:43.000 And it is the religion of the West.

00:35:45.000 And ultimately, if you're going to take down the West, you're going to have to take down Christianity. 0.97

00:35:50.000 You know, one thing I often bring up on the show is that this culture war we're experiencing,

00:35:55.000 I think has a lot to do with two different moral frameworks.

00:35:59.000 There is the Judeo-Christian moral framework, which I think everybody in this room agrees with, but then there is the Marxist or fascistic moral framework.

00:36:08.000 I had a conversation with a, there was a family coming around my neighborhood in South Jersey, Philly area, and they were preaching, or what is it called?

00:36:19.000 Evangelizing.

00:36:20.000 Evangelizing, coming with the Bible. 0.98

00:36:22.000 And I had a good conversation where I pointed out that I'm not theistic.

00:36:29.000 I don't go to mass or anything like that.

00:36:30.000 I do believe in God.

00:36:31.000 But I also recognize the lessons from the Bible that we hold true today, that are core principles in our country, such as the presumption of innocence.

00:36:40.000 If you are accused of a crime, we are supposed to presume you are innocent until it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

00:36:47.000 And that tenet comes from the Bible, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, that, you know, God said, if there's but one righteous person, I will not destroy these cities.

00:36:57.000 And it was only after the righteous people were all saved from the cities that God, you know, he rained fire and crimson on Sodom and Gomorrah.

00:37:04.000 But the point is, I was reading about the Fifth Amendment, how powerful it is in protecting the innocent.

00:37:10.000 This country is far from perfect, but it's pretty good.

00:37:12.000 I've been to a lot of places.

00:37:14.000 And it said the Founding Fathers had, you know, Benjamin Franklin, it is better that a hundred guilty persons go free than one innocent person suffer.

00:37:21.000 And I said, wow, a hundred?

00:37:23.000 That's huge.

00:37:24.000 Because Blackstone, he was this British judge, I think, where he said it's better that ten guilty persons escape than one innocent suffer.

00:37:31.000 And I said, where did he come up with that?

00:37:33.000 I like that idea.

00:37:33.000 I agree.

00:37:35.000 He talks about how If your society would punish the innocent, then people would have no faith in your society.

00:37:42.000 And if they're so inclined upon just punishing someone for doing something, you'll actually let the bad people go free.

00:37:50.000 You need to make sure you have a very high standard for whether or not you're going to imprison somebody or punish them or seek retribution or justice.

00:37:58.000 Because if you're getting the wrong people, the bad guys are getting away with it, and the good guys are hurting, everybody's mad.

00:38:03.000 But that idea came from the Bible.

00:38:05.000 And often, law is not good.

00:38:07.000 So, in times of evil law, you need to let the criminals go free, because they're the good people, like a Nazi. 0.59

00:38:13.000 You know, you can claim all sorts of things.

00:38:15.000 Right, and Frank was the criminal.

00:38:16.000 Exactly.

00:38:17.000 That's crazy.

00:38:18.000 But so, you know, in thinking about this, I see people like Bill Maher, he's like a secular atheist, but he doesn't understand when he believes in free speech, when he believes in the right presumption of innocence, these are founded in Christian moral values.

00:38:31.000 Now we have the rise of this wokeness and things like BLM, they don't believe in that framework, they hate it, they want to destroy it.

00:38:38.000 They abide by, typically, the ethos of there is no truth but power.

00:38:43.000 Where they think that if we get enough people to say it, it will just be true, and that's all that matters.

00:38:49.000 I'm a big fan of take care of yourself before you attempt to take care of your neighbor.

00:38:53.000 Take the plank out of your own eye before you attempt to take the speck of dust out of your neighbor's or something like that.

00:39:00.000 I think that's incredibly valuable now.

00:39:02.000 Jordan Peterson talks about cleaning your room.

00:39:03.000 Take care of yourself right now.

00:39:05.000 Now is the time.

00:39:06.000 Do you have a favorite tenet in Christianity?

00:39:08.000 Well, I'll just start off by saying, to your point about how much of the Judeo-Christian ethic is baked into everything in the West, and it's almost like to attack it is to very attack the foundations of society itself. 0.78

00:39:24.000 Maybe on purpose.

00:39:25.000 Maybe on purpose, for sure.

00:39:26.000 But I say probably my favorite tenet is you do unto others how you would want to be done unto yourself.

00:39:35.000 I think that it speaks to the very crux of a human being in terms of the way you want to be treated, the way you want to see things happen in your own life.

00:39:42.000 You give that to someone else and ultimately you'll create a society that wants to be lived in.

00:39:46.000 And I think that idea is rooted in the belief there's something outside of you.

00:39:53.000 There's something bigger than you.

00:39:54.000 That another person exists, they have inalienable rights, the same as I do.

00:39:59.000 When you understand that, you try to do better by other people to the best of your abilities.

00:40:03.000 But then I look at a lot of what's happening with Black Lives Matter and this activism as very narcissistic. 0.98

00:40:09.000 Individuals who are going to smash up a window or set fire to a building or hurt someone because they don't care about what they're doing to others.

00:40:14.000 They don't believe what you just said.

00:40:15.000 Because you know for a fact that these people who are smashing windows would freak out and be angry if someone smashed their window.

00:40:21.000 They don't want their windows smashed.

00:40:22.000 It's almost like they don't care about what exists outside of them.

00:40:27.000 And to the point is that I believe that those people can be reached with love.

00:40:27.000 Right.

00:40:33.000 So it's almost as if the people who are out there to me who have been manipulated by media, manipulated by whoever's at the top that is trying to get these things done, manipulated by the Black Lives Matter organization, that those people if shown love can in a sense be redeemed in a sense of because we've been redeemed ourselves but ultimately that those people are not evil those people are not terrible people they're in a they're in a predicament of again being manipulated by the powers that be and ultimately take the Klansman for example that person

00:41:11.000 You could say from the jump that he never hated black people, but he's been manipulated by the ideology.

00:41:16.000 But because there was a black person that was willing to reach his hand across the aisle, he could wake up and see that there's a better way and see that he can ultimately love or like whatever a black person.

00:41:26.000 I'm a little bit more pessimistic, but I ultimately agree with you.

00:41:30.000 In the story about the Klan, there's another really crazy story in that we booked Daryl Davis to speak at an event in the Philly suburbs, South Jersey, and far-left activists threatened to burn the theater down.

00:41:43.000 So the theater kicked us out, without question.

00:41:46.000 We ended up having to find a new venue.

00:41:48.000 The After Party was still in the same area, and these activists were outside protesting.

00:41:53.000 And Daryl tried to go talk to them, and they wouldn't.

00:41:55.000 They screamed at him.

00:41:57.000 And he said he'd never experienced anything like it.

00:41:59.000 He said that he has gone to Klan meetings, and they've gone up smugly, like, oh, we know what we're talking about, we know what you are.

00:42:06.000 But they'd still talk to him.

00:42:08.000 When he tried walking up to Antifa, they started screaming at him, calling him a fascist and a Nazi, and he couldn't even get a word in.

00:42:13.000 This is the argument we've received on the show.

00:42:15.000 I feel very much like you about communication and love.

00:42:18.000 I feel like if you allow someone to understand you, that they will become living in a place of love.

00:42:24.000 It just happens.

00:42:25.000 But the argument we're getting is that these people, this Black Lives Matter, these leftists or whatever, feel like they're at war mentally.

00:42:32.000 And when you're at war with someone, You may want to love them, but they're still going to kill you because you're at war.

00:42:38.000 And if you can get one of those soldiers over to your side and then you're able to talk to them, they will convert.

00:42:43.000 But during the war, love is not the tactic.

00:42:47.000 And I don't know if that's true, but this is the argument that I've been getting.

00:42:50.000 I think it's fair to say.

00:42:51.000 And we'll wrap up with a couple of thoughts here.

00:42:54.000 There have been many people who are on that side, who have come around and been like, wow, I was wrong to think these things.

00:42:59.000 There's many people.

00:43:01.000 We've talked to people like Carrie Smith, who used to be a woke progressive activist on the left, and now she's Christian.

00:43:06.000 I'm pretty sure she's Christian, right?

00:43:08.000 She is, yeah.

00:43:08.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:43:09.000 And I think Candace Owens herself even was on the left, you know, some time ago.

00:43:13.000 And then people start to break through.

00:43:15.000 They start to get access to information. 0.93

00:43:17.000 I think a lot of what we hear about Christians, and maybe this is one that's always benefited me, is that going to Catholic school, When I see these narratives from the media about how Christians are manipulative, mentally deranged, or just mean, or nasty, or hypocrites, I'm like, you're not talking about any of the people I ever met or grew up with. 0.91

00:43:33.000 I don't know. 0.86

00:43:34.000 Like, sure, there was bad people, but people were just people.

00:43:36.000 I think they mainly use the word zealot.

00:43:38.000 It doesn't really matter what religion you are.

00:43:40.000 If you're a zealot, then you can become kind of hard to communicate with.

00:43:43.000 So, we went a little bit over, but it's cool because this has been fun.

00:43:47.000 Jonathan, do you want to tell people where they can get the book?

00:43:49.000 How to get it?

00:43:50.000 Head to Amazon and just type in why I stand and pre-order your book.

00:43:54.000 Pre-orders are really, really important, so I appreciate the support.

00:43:58.000 I appreciate you standing up for what you believe in, man.

00:44:01.000 Hearing that there's a lot of players that don't agree with it, but they're willing to kneel for it, that scares me.

00:44:04.000 I got a final question.

00:44:05.000 What's the best part of playing Power Forward?

00:44:07.000 The best part of playing Power Forward?

00:44:09.000 I'd say getting the dunk.

00:44:11.000 Getting the run-up and down the court and dunk.

00:44:14.000 One-handed or two-handed?

00:44:15.000 It doesn't matter.

00:44:15.000 Any way you want it.

00:44:17.000 Right on, man.

00:44:18.000 So what should people look forward to?

00:44:19.000 Anything else you want to mention before we bounce?

00:44:22.000 I say just look forward to reading it.

00:44:24.000 I think that the message of love, the message that Christ is the way, the truth, and the life, and ultimately to free ourselves, and even to the point you were talking about, and you were saying that like, In the midst of war, love is not something you lead with.

00:44:40.000 And my mind automatically jumped back to Martin Luther King, right?

00:44:44.000 He died for what he believed in, but I believe that he won because of what was able to transpire after that.

00:44:50.000 And so it's ultimately that the truth is the reason why you treat someone with love is because you're aiming above them at not pleasing them, but pleasing God.

00:44:58.000 That's a good point.

00:44:59.000 And so for me in this, my rationale is I'm going to continue to communicate, talk, but share the love of God with people.

00:45:08.000 And whatever happens in that process is the right thing for that time because love wins always.

00:45:15.000 God's love wins always, in my opinion, because of what I've experienced in my own life and what's laid out in the book and just what I've seen and what has come after it.

00:45:24.000 I want to say, I'll say one last thing.

00:45:26.000 Bill Maher made a documentary, it was called Religulous.

00:45:29.000 And the one thing he said, I think it was in this documentary, he said that people came to him and said, I'm going to pray for you.

00:45:35.000 And he's, as atheists, they come and he said, thank you, that means a lot to me.

00:45:39.000 Because he understands what it means to dedicate your energy and your thoughts in a positive way for someone you disagree with.

00:45:46.000 So even though he doesn't believe the way they do, he knows they're trying really hard to help him and make his life better.

00:45:52.000 And that was a great message.

00:45:54.000 You know the song Pray by Sam Smith, where he says, everyone prays in the end.

00:46:01.000 Everyone prays in the end.

00:46:02.000 And it's ultimately like, take a Bill Maher, in time of need, in time of death, in time of things like that, he may not pray, but the people around him that love him and care about him will pray, or they'll seek somebody to pray.

00:46:16.000 And to me, it's the ultimate underlying truth in us that there is something greater than us.

00:46:22.000 And I believe that that's Christ.

00:46:23.000 I believe that it's God who has worked his way to us through Christ.

00:46:27.000 You ever hear the saying, there's no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole?

00:46:31.000 I have.

00:46:34.000 People might want to deny it, but it's true. 0.99

00:46:37.000 It doesn't mean that you'll instantly believe the Bible is real.

00:46:40.000 It means that when you're in that moment, where you're facing oblivion, you think, if there's someone or something or anybody listening, please help me.

00:46:50.000 Yeah, it's that lack of control that people feel, and it's like when you realize you're really not in control of this world.

00:46:55.000 We might feel like we are because we have money, but things can happen.

00:47:00.000 It's magnetic, you know?

00:47:01.000 I think the West has had so much control because of what it is that we founded on, that we've gotten to the place of the woke, feeling as if they can transcend that reality, and it's only going to crash and burn ultimately in time because That that reality is more real to me than reality itself that the bedrock of what it is that America has been founding on and Because we've got it so good.

00:47:26.000 It's easy to turn around and say Biology doesn't exist and other things don't exist All right, let's wrap it up.

00:47:32.000 So you're going to be playing again.

00:47:33.000 You're back next season?

00:47:34.000 Next season.

00:47:34.000 All right, man.

00:47:35.000 We look forward to it.

00:47:35.000 And your book is Why I Stand on Amazon.

00:47:37.000 People can pick it up.

00:47:38.000 Pre-order it now.

00:47:39.000 Yes, sir.

00:47:39.000 It's going to come out in what, May?

00:47:41.000 May 17th is the release date.

00:47:42.000 May 17th.

00:47:43.000 Jonathan, thanks for hanging out, man.

00:47:44.000 It's an honor and a privilege for you to talk to us, and I appreciate it.

00:47:49.000 Thanks so much.

00:47:49.000 Peace and love.

00:47:50.000 Appreciate it.

00:47:50.000 Take care, everybody.

00:48:06.000 Joining us is Ben Shapiro.

00:48:08.000 What's going on, dude?

00:48:09.000 Do you want to introduce yourself?

00:48:11.000 Not that I think you need to, but... Sure.

00:48:13.000 So I'm Editor Emeritus of The Daily Wire, co-founder of The Daily Wire, host of The Ben Shapiro Show.

00:48:20.000 You know, some books.

00:48:22.000 That'll do it.

00:48:23.000 Right on, right on.

00:48:24.000 So we're also hanging out with Seamus Coghlan of Freedom Tunes.

00:48:27.000 Yes, this is actually my first time here with Ben Shapiro instead of just doing his voice for the audience.

00:48:34.000 Right on.

00:48:35.000 And we got Ian Crosland.

00:48:36.000 Hi everyone.

00:48:37.000 What up?

00:48:38.000 Oh.

00:48:38.000 So anyway, we'll just jump in.

00:48:40.000 We've not done anything like this before, but considering we're out here in Nashville, we've got, you know, you're here and able to make time for us, as well as we had Jonathan Isaacs, so we're all excited.

00:48:50.000 And I'm just going to jump into this viral Twitter trend.

00:48:53.000 We have the story from Newsweek.

00:48:55.000 Ben Shapiro called Bozo by student during anti-transgender event.

00:49:01.000 I just love how they frame stories, as if that was the takeaway from the event.

00:49:06.000 I mean, so a couple of things.

00:49:08.000 One, it's not a news event when someone calls me a name.

00:49:10.000 I mean, that's like most of my life, actually.

00:49:13.000 Including from my children.

00:49:15.000 So, like, being called a bad name is not actually a news event.

00:49:18.000 What actually happened here is if you watch the entire clip, there's a kid who got up there and he started...

00:49:25.000 By, you know, suggesting that he was a mathematician and a physicist, double major, and he'd won all these awards, and I congratulated him on that.

00:49:31.000 And then he proceeded to spew a bunch of nonsense.

00:49:34.000 And then when he was rebutted on his nonsense, like, he actually accused me of using the DSM-IV as opposed to the DSM-V, which wasn't true.

00:49:40.000 He suggested that I use the language gender identity disorder as opposed to gender dysphoria.

00:49:43.000 That wasn't true.

00:49:44.000 I corrected him.

00:49:45.000 And when he had sort of run out of arguments, then he called me a bozo and then made a reference to that famous video from about a year and a half ago where I read the lyrics to Cardi B's WAP.

00:49:56.000 Which was hilarious.

00:49:58.000 Thank you.

00:49:58.000 I mean, if you actually watch the 15-minute version, they've only played like the two-minute version.

00:50:02.000 I will say I'm quite proud of the 15-minute full takedown and breakdown of WAP.

00:50:07.000 It slaps significantly harder than her original version. 0.99

00:50:10.000 And frankly, it's It's pretty funny.

00:50:12.000 It's one of the funniest things I've ever done on the show.

00:50:14.000 And so that's sort of become a meme online.

00:50:16.000 So he started saying this stuff.

00:50:17.000 He started insulting my wife.

00:50:19.000 And I said back to him, I don't really feel like I need to have my masculinity challenged by somebody.

00:50:24.000 I have three kids.

00:50:26.000 Really, I don't need to talk about my sex life with you. 0.95

00:50:30.000 And then the takeaway from this, according to the media, was that somebody called me a bozo.

00:50:35.000 Now, the reason that happened is that I've noticed that Twitter plays this game.

00:50:39.000 I trend once about, probably once every three weeks on Twitter or so.

00:50:43.000 It really charts out.

00:50:44.000 So the day after the Twitter trend, I'm kind of happy because it's like three weeks until I trend again.

00:50:48.000 But the way that it typically works is that there will be a good story that starts to get some traction about me on Twitter, and it won't trend.

00:50:54.000 And then within 24 hours, Twitter will be trending me about something that is either unrelated or recasting the story.

00:50:59.000 So yesterday, or earlier last week, when this video came out at the beginning, it already had a couple of million views.

00:51:06.000 And it was the full version.

00:51:07.000 It was like a two-minute version that had a couple million views.

00:51:09.000 I think now it has, you know, four million views online.

00:51:12.000 And a lot of people are talking about it.

00:51:13.000 And then they waited for about 24 hours for somebody to come up with like a 10-second version of the video with just this kid insulting me.

00:51:20.000 And then they trended it with that video.

00:51:23.000 Because the idea is that the story can never be that we had this exchange and this kid came off pretty badly.

00:51:28.000 And if you watch the entire exchange, honestly, I feel bad for him.

00:51:30.000 He came off pretty badly.

00:51:30.000 Well, here's the craziest thing about it.

00:51:33.000 Are we concerned with people being convinced by someone just insulting you and not really making any substantive arguments?

00:51:39.000 I mean, that really is the question.

00:51:41.000 I mean, that wasn't the only time that happened during the event, by the way. 0.99

00:51:44.000 I mean, there was a point earlier in the event where it was disrupted by a guy up in the rafter shouting, fuck you at me. 0.99

00:51:49.000 And I immediately responded by saying, fuck you is not an argument. 1.00

00:51:53.000 Right? 1.00

00:51:53.000 And which, it isn't. 1.00

00:51:54.000 And also, number two, no thank you.

00:51:56.000 Right?

00:51:57.000 Those are the things I said back to him.

00:51:59.000 And, you know, that sort of stuff is not a headline.

00:52:03.000 They had to recraft, the entire media apparently, had to recraft the headline so that the big issue was that somebody said something nasty to me.

00:52:09.000 Now, here's the way that works.

00:52:10.000 If I had said something nasty to the student, right?

00:52:12.000 I'm invariably pretty polite in these exchanges.

00:52:14.000 If I had said something really nasty back to the student about his sex life or something, Yeah, exactly. 0.99

00:52:18.000 been a major story about what a jackass I am. But somebody says something like that 0.99

00:52:22.000 to me, and they do, what a hero, what a stud this kid is.

00:52:25.000 Okay, you know what, if that's the way the game is played, I guess that's the way the game

00:52:27.000 is played, whatever.

00:52:28.000 Yeah, exactly. When I saw this headline, my first thought was, of course, they concentrate

00:52:31.000 on the fact that this kid called you a bozo, rather than the fact that he made depraved 0.96

00:52:34.000 sexual remarks and insults about yourself and your wife. If the reverse had happened, 0.97

00:52:38.000 if some conservative audience member had shouted at a left-wing pundit this really disgusting, 0.95

00:52:43.000 perverted stuff about their sex life with their spouse, that would absolutely be the 0.54

00:52:47.000 headline you would be hearing about how harassment is such a serious problem on the right side

00:52:50.000 of politics. You know what I see as interesting here?

00:52:53.000 You know, I tweeted about it.

00:52:55.000 The dude made no argument, as you stated.

00:52:58.000 So I'm thinking, you know, why would he get up there and just insult you while he wants his friends to hear him?

00:53:03.000 He wants to go home and high-five them.

00:53:06.000 My concern is, does that convince people?

00:53:08.000 Because I have a concern about the future of this country if there are voters convinced by what that guy did.

00:53:15.000 First of all, it was funny when he got up and said, I'm a mathematician and a physicist, so I know I'm right, and then talks about mental health and biology, while criticizing you for not being a biologist, when neither is he, which you pointed out.

00:53:26.000 I suppose my greater concern is, are we wasting our time trying to have logical arguments with people who are not interested in logical arguments?

00:53:37.000 Um, I mean, yeah, yes.

00:53:38.000 I mean, the argument wasn't with him, but the argument is on behalf of the audience.

00:53:42.000 And I think that this is where the media coverage really gets ugly, because the truth is that

00:53:45.000 for the people in the room who may not have been decided, who showed up or who watched

00:53:49.000 it online and who may not have really had an opinion on the issue, if they just watched

00:53:52.000 that entire clip, they're going to come away with, I think, what any sane person would,

00:53:55.000 which is this person really didn't have an argument, and that I was making a large number

00:53:59.000 of arguments, citing data, citing recent studies and all the rest.

00:54:02.000 And they would come away with that impression.

00:54:03.000 The way the media coverage comes off is it's just rock them, sock them robots.

00:54:07.000 And this is, by the way, how you end up with pretty much the worst of every aspect of politics.

00:54:11.000 And it bleeds up, right?

00:54:12.000 And this is why when you get to presidential debates, you'll see that it turns into basically

00:54:15.000 something that looks like a seventh grade sort of playground school fight, just people

00:54:20.000 shouting names at each other.

00:54:21.000 And there's no way to fight that.

00:54:22.000 There really is not.

00:54:24.000 Really?

00:54:24.000 What am I supposed to say to that if somebody gets up and they insult my wife right or somebody gets up there?

00:54:27.000 And they insult my sex life or something How am I supposed to come back at that as a sort of?

00:54:32.000 Rational and polite human being the answer is you can't and if you go low then you're the person who's really the bad guy So it's a lose-lose.

00:54:39.000 It's it's the reason why you know not all these debates are worth it, but I agree.

00:54:42.000 I think it's a lose-lose no matter what.

00:54:45.000 However, the way I typically respond is, I don't understand why you're being so mean to me.

00:54:51.000 So I've actually, you know, I've gotten in Facebook arguments, and I'll always try to approach it reasonably, calmly, rationally.

00:54:59.000 And if they immediately come back and say something nasty, I just say, I'm sorry, I don't understand why you're being so mean to me right now.

00:55:05.000 And that's just my approach.

00:55:06.000 But in the end, it doesn't matter because what's really happening on stage here is, The audience who agrees with a rational discussion of the ideas and real answers is looking for those, and the people who just want to hate because they're driven by emotion just want to see you be insulted, so whatever you say doesn't matter to them.

00:55:23.000 That's right.

00:55:23.000 Tell us why you have to be super careful in terms of who you actually engage with.

00:55:26.000 So the nice thing about going to college is that you do get, you know, a lot of people from the other side of the aisle who engage, some of them in really good faith, and that's awesome when that happens.

00:55:34.000 Whenever I do these Question lines.

00:55:36.000 I always say, if you disagree, you go to the front of the line.

00:55:37.000 That's the standing rule.

00:55:38.000 But it's also why when I decide who I'm going to talk to on the show, I tend to try to talk to people who I think, on any side of the political aisle, are actually going to have an honest conversation.

00:55:47.000 So for example, I had on my show Ro Khanna recently, the California congressperson.

00:55:52.000 Ro is really far to the left.

00:55:53.000 And we had this really good conversation about minimum wage.

00:55:57.000 He's going to come on the show again.

00:55:58.000 I've had Andrew Yang on the program.

00:55:59.000 We've done universal basic income.

00:56:01.000 Anybody who's willing to have a good, long-form discussion, Is great.

00:56:05.000 The problem is that the way that everything is framed and the way that everybody is sort of exposed to this material is... Ben Shapiro debates X. Well, if you actually watch the conversations, it's usually not a debate.

00:56:15.000 Usually it's a discussion and somebody kind of comes up short in the discussion.

00:56:18.000 So it's not a debate where some... Even the Ben Shapiro destroys videos are typically not something where I'm being like an asshole to somebody. 0.98

00:56:23.000 It really is much more... I make an argument, the other person doesn't have like a very good comeback and that's sort of the end of the conversation, but... 0.53

00:56:28.000 Good example was you on Bill Maher with Malcolm Nance.

00:56:35.000 And I'm watching that and I'm listening, then Malcolm Nance just immediately goes for the emotional attack.

00:56:41.000 Yeah, I mean, that was kind of shocking to me, honestly.

00:56:43.000 I mean, I was trying to be as polite as I could be.

00:56:46.000 I really try to be polite in all these scenarios.

00:56:48.000 And I was complimenting him.

00:56:49.000 I was saying, listen, you're a former intelligence analyst.

00:56:51.000 Like, you know that this is true.

00:56:53.000 And there came a point where he just started being incredibly insulting on the show.

00:56:59.000 And there's not much that you can do with that, frankly.

00:57:03.000 And like when you say, oh, well, I can't believe anybody listens to your show.

00:57:05.000 Well, I mean, first of all, you know, you never want to make the ego play.

00:57:09.000 This is a lesson that I've learned before.

00:57:10.000 I've been in situations like just as a human being.

00:57:12.000 One of the lessons you learn as you get more notorious is that making the ego play is almost invariably a mistake.

00:57:20.000 You'll be in a situation, and you'll be like, ah, I'm bigger than this person.

00:57:23.000 More people listen to me than this person, and it ends badly for you.

00:57:25.000 That's what happened on that famous BBC interview, right?

00:57:27.000 No idea who's interviewing me.

00:57:28.000 And so I'm like, I have no idea who you are.

00:57:30.000 And of course, it turns out the guy's pretty famous in Britain.

00:57:32.000 I'm just not from Britain.

00:57:33.000 So you can make that mistake.

00:57:35.000 I just said, if someone came to me and said, I don't even know why people watch your show, I'd just be like...

00:57:40.000 I agree.

00:57:42.000 Honestly, I just, you know, the way I describe it is like, I don't know, I complain on the internet to a camera, but apparently people, you know, like watching it.

00:57:48.000 So I'll always just be like, dude, if you want to be the mean person in the room, that's fine.

00:57:54.000 Cause I don't know how we convince people whose, whose intention is just to be mean to emotionally destroy the people that I'm looking for solutions.

00:58:01.000 That kid seemed to be disappointed that he said, what, DSM IV and you were talking about the DSM V, and so he was humiliated and lashed out.

00:58:08.000 And if you can say it seems like you're humiliated because you were wrong about the DSM IV thing, usually puts them in their place.

00:58:15.000 Also, you just gotta take the humility when you do that.

00:58:18.000 Being on stage and being a performer, let people rock you and breathe out your mouth, you know?

00:58:23.000 Everybody's seen your debates, discussions.

00:58:25.000 When you're wrong, you say you're wrong.

00:58:27.000 Yeah, I try to. 0.98

00:58:28.000 I mean, I think I'm one of the only public figures in America where I have like a running list on our website of all the stupid and dumb things I've ever said in my entire career, like going all the way back. 0.96

00:58:36.000 I've been writing columns, syndicated columns, since I was 17 years old. 0.98

00:58:38.000 I'm now 38.

00:58:39.000 So I've been doing this for over two decades. 0.97

00:58:41.000 And most of the dumb crap that I said was in the first, I would say, quarter of my career, like from the time I was 17 to the time that I was maybe 23, 24. 0.98

00:58:47.000 And so I have a whole running list of every bad tweet that I think that's bad, and I'll say, like, that was a bad tweet, that was stupid, here's why I did it, here's why I was wrong. 0.98

00:58:56.000 You try to be a reflective human being, because I think part of being a good human being is trying to be reflective, but when you're a public figure, you also have to balance that out with the fact that there are a lot of people who just want... 0.90

00:59:04.000 You to be destroyed and so how do you take criticism?

00:59:07.000 You have to have a filter system where people in good faith and come to you and say you did this wrong and you really

00:59:11.000 Think about it, but then there are a lot of people who are just you know going on stage and calling you bozo

00:59:15.000 And that's not a good faith criticism, and so at that point you just kind of have to be done

00:59:19.000 I'll give you I'll give you an example on on our end. I don't we

00:59:22.000 We've never done, for TimCast IRL, any digital debates or any conversations, because they're just not that good.

00:59:29.000 You know, I went on Sunday Special with you, and it's kind of stunted in that you'll talk, then I gotta kind of wait, because we're not in the same room.

00:59:38.000 So, there was a point where I tweeted out, we've tried to book big left personalities, because the door is always open, we want these conversations.

00:59:46.000 Vosh, who many people don't like, has accepted on more than one occasion with a smile on his face.

00:59:51.000 And he's had a lot of really creepy things that a lot of people call him out for.

00:59:55.000 They're mad at us for platforming, but I'm like, bring him on, have him say it, and then we'll challenge him.

00:59:59.000 And he's tried deflecting from these things.

01:00:01.000 But there are a few personalities, I'll leave their names out of it, who publicly accept.

01:00:05.000 Tim, I will come on your show!

01:00:07.000 Name the time and date.

01:00:08.000 And I say, here's the time and date.

01:00:09.000 We will pay for your tickets.

01:00:10.000 We'll fly you out first class.

01:00:11.000 We'll get you a hotel.

01:00:12.000 Just let us know.

01:00:13.000 And they go, you got it!

01:00:15.000 Then they DM me privately and say, I'm not coming on your show.

01:00:18.000 It's all for show.

01:00:18.000 Yeah.

01:00:19.000 So we've got one individual who is just one of the worst, you know, most bad faith individuals. 1.00

01:00:24.000 I won't even, there's no open door for this guy.

01:00:26.000 But, you know, just recently, Hasan, this is the funniest thing, you know, you know, Hasan, he's a left personality.

01:00:34.000 David Pakman tweeted... He owns a mansion, right?

01:00:36.000 That's mostly what I know about him.

01:00:39.000 Like most good socialists, he has a dacha in the woods.

01:00:41.000 Hold on, just because you're a socialist doesn't mean you can't participate in society.

01:00:44.000 A mansion is necessary to participate in society.

01:00:46.000 Yeah, that's right.

01:00:47.000 I mean, he needs to be comfortable.

01:00:48.000 He streams a lot.

01:00:50.000 But he tweeted, David Pakman tweeted, is anybody actually pro-abortion?

01:00:55.000 I've heard this, but I've not seen anybody actually say it.

01:00:59.000 Hassan responded, me, I am... David said, is anyone trying to increase the number of abortions?

01:01:04.000 Hassan said, me, I am trying to do this.

01:01:07.000 Look, it was tongue-in-cheek, and I felt it was obvious.

01:01:10.000 Of course, he doesn't literally want to challenge David Pakman and give ammunition.

01:01:14.000 But David responded with, sounds weird.

01:01:17.000 Someone then responded with, what's wrong with more abortions? 1.00

01:01:21.000 So I screen grabbed that interaction.

01:01:23.000 I said nothing.

01:01:24.000 And I tweeted it.

01:01:25.000 I thought it was funny that Hassan appeared to be trying to snark David.

01:01:29.000 David didn't seem to realize and then someone actually agreed with the true premise not thinking it was a joke.

01:01:36.000 Hassan assumed that I took him seriously and then started disparaging me on Twitter.

01:01:41.000 So I said, He said, I pretend to be a true progressive or that I'm an me and Dave Rubin and I are influential to people who claim to be true progressives.

01:01:51.000 And I said, I never said I was a progressive.

01:01:53.000 I'm not a progressive.

01:01:54.000 I say I'm a moderate with some left policies.

01:01:57.000 He responds with, you're doing exactly what I'm making fun of you for.

01:02:00.000 My immediate response is, you have an open invite to come on the show and say anything you want, unimpeded, and the immediate reaction is everyone saying, for one excuse or another, we won't do it, we can't do it, I'm not gonna do it.

01:02:13.000 The first excuse he gave before was, oh, COVID, so we can't.

01:02:17.000 He publicly said, I will come on your show, then privately says, oh no, COVID, I can't do it.

01:02:21.000 This is the difficulty with trying to engage with these individuals, because I don't think they actually care about solution or logic-based solutions to our problems.

01:02:29.000 I feel like they do what they accuse us of doing.

01:02:33.000 Emotional arguments for the sake of making money.

01:02:36.000 And I'm like, if that's the case, why is it that Ben Shapiro is the debate-me guy?

01:02:40.000 Who's trying as hard as he can to have you come and explain all of your ideas and I'm sitting here saying I will literally pay for you and first-class five-star hotel so you can tell us your ideas, but it's constantly that side that says we won't do it.

01:02:53.000 Yep, and I think that they also play this game where they act as though if you would like to have a conversation, they get to determine the format of the conversation.

01:03:00.000 The format of the conversation does matter an awful lot.

01:03:01.000 I mean, as you point out, there's a big difference between having somebody in person for something that you do versus doing something via Zoom.

01:03:08.000 This actually is a pretty large-scale thing.

01:03:10.000 It makes a big difference in terms of, are you having a conversation or are you having a debate?

01:03:14.000 If it's a debate, is it something where there's a moderator or is there not a moderator?

01:03:17.000 Is it going to be timed or is it not going to be timed?

01:03:18.000 Because you actually prepare for these things differently.

01:03:20.000 So for me, when I'm preparing for an actual debate, Then I actually do research into the person I'm debating.

01:03:25.000 I try to look at everything that they've said.

01:03:26.000 I try to see how they approach arguments so that I know exactly what I'm facing.

01:03:29.000 I treat it like you would a prize fight because you sort of have to go in with that mentality.

01:03:33.000 And then sometimes, you know, it gets pugnacious and sometimes it doesn't.

01:03:37.000 But you have to treat it like that.

01:03:39.000 But you have to know the format going in.

01:03:40.000 And what I find very often is that there's a lot of sandbagging that goes on.

01:03:44.000 And I really try not to sandbag people.

01:03:46.000 When I have people on my show and I say it's just going to be a conversation, it really is just a conversation.

01:03:51.000 I try to give them space to expand on what they're saying.

01:03:54.000 And when I say it's a debate, it should be like a formal debate where there's an actual timer here with somebody with a clock and there's a moderator and somebody asking questions.

01:04:02.000 But failing to distinguish between the two is one way of preventing those good conversations from happening.

01:04:06.000 It's something I also see in the comedic world.

01:04:08.000 I mean, there's this whole school of thought, mostly existing in the comedic left, Where it's the clown nose on, clown nose off routine and it's really obnoxious.

01:04:15.000 It's the reason why I've said I won't do, you know, I've been invited on Trevor Noah before and I've said I won't do it unless it's live.

01:04:21.000 I'm not going to do it taped because I know that you guys cut this stuff and I'm not going to be humiliated by the cuts that you make around a comedian whose job it is to just make funny faces in the camera.

01:04:29.000 He's going to be better at that than I am.

01:04:30.000 I'm never going to be as good at that as he is.

01:04:33.000 If he wants to have like a political conversation, we can do that in long form.

01:04:36.000 If he wants to just sit there and make faces at the camera, he's going to win.

01:04:38.000 I mean, there's no way I can win because he's a comedian.

01:04:40.000 So, you know, the terms matter.

01:04:42.000 The other thing, too, is if we're going to have a real discussion, a lot of people, well, I'll just point out, again, not saying certain names, but they do ambushes.

01:04:51.000 They lie.

01:04:52.000 They'll say, yeah, I'll have a conversation with you.

01:04:54.000 Let's do Zoom.

01:04:55.000 And then it's somebody else.

01:04:57.000 Or they've got a chat going, giving them answers and helping them because they're not actually prepared for these real conversations.

01:05:04.000 I have no problem with that.

01:05:05.000 Some people have said they're going to get help from the audience, and I'm like, let the audience help them all.

01:05:08.000 The issue is when I have conversations, I did a conversation with David Pakman before and some other individuals, and the left calls them all debates.

01:05:17.000 And I was like, I never agree.

01:05:18.000 I don't debate people.

01:05:19.000 I don't think I have all the answers.

01:05:20.000 I'll ask questions.

01:05:21.000 I'll tell him what I think.

01:05:22.000 I'll say, oh, I didn't know that.

01:05:24.000 But they're acting like we're all going in to just fight each other.

01:05:27.000 Yeah, that's what I'm wondering.

01:05:28.000 How important is it?

01:05:28.000 How invested percentage on 1 to 100 do you think you should be in your argument when you're taking on an argument?

01:05:34.000 So, you know, I think that it depends on how much you know about the topic, really.

01:05:38.000 So there are certain topics where I just don't know all that much, and so I'm not particularly invested in the argument.

01:05:42.000 When it comes to drugs, I literally have never tried them.

01:05:46.000 I don't know that much about them.

01:05:47.000 You know, this is not something where I feel I'm an expert in the subject.

01:05:50.000 So when I'm on Joe Rogan and he's talking about legalization of marijuana, I'm like, well, he knows way more about this than I do, so I'm just going to let it go.

01:05:55.000 Or DMT.

01:05:57.000 Well, he does way more than I do.

01:06:00.000 And this is true on a lot of topics.

01:06:01.000 If, however, I'm really deeply invested in a topic and I really feel like I've studied it, then I'll stick to the arguments.

01:06:05.000 But the one thing that I won't do is pretend that I know something that I don't.

01:06:09.000 So you'll see pretty frequently that in these scenarios, these debate or discussion scenarios, if somebody mentions a study and I don't know the study, I'll just say, I don't know that study.

01:06:17.000 I'm happy to take a look at that study.

01:06:18.000 I'll assume that what you're saying is true, assuming what you're saying is true, and then I'll ask a question.

01:06:23.000 Just being in this space for a long time, one of the things that you learn, again, it goes back to sort of the ego problem.

01:06:29.000 If you say that you know something that you don't, you're going to get caught with your pants down.

01:06:33.000 That's just the way it's going to work.

01:06:34.000 Do you find that if you're really emotionally invested in something that it's easier for someone to twist you, twist your ego in an argument?

01:06:40.000 Yes.

01:06:41.000 I mean, absolutely.

01:06:41.000 That's why the hardest thing is where somebody, you know, says something about your wife or something, right?

01:06:46.000 And that's very difficult.

01:06:47.000 So you have to, like, take a breath and just kind of, you know, calm down.

01:06:50.000 That's the whole goal.

01:06:51.000 I mean, that's really why people try to throw you off your game by doing that sort of stuff.

01:06:55.000 And it's also why there are certain topics I...

01:06:57.000 Frankly, I don't enjoy debating very much because I feel like I have to make a conscious effort to separate myself off enough emotionally from the topic that I can have a good back-and-forth conversation without getting angry or upset.

01:07:09.000 And that's where the good conversations happen.

01:07:11.000 Do you remember the reality has a liberal bias?

01:07:14.000 That statement, I think it was Stephen Colbert who said it.

01:07:17.000 Was it Colbert?

01:07:18.000 Was it?

01:07:19.000 Because he was pretending to be a conservative.

01:07:21.000 You know, I think about this and it's fascinating because I grew up watching Jon Stewart, I watched Colbert, I watched Bill Maher, and today I would say reality has a conservative bias.

01:07:31.000 It's not so much that it's conservative values, but for whatever reason, The reason why I'm called conservative has more to do with what I view as true and correct, as opposed to what policies I align with, or whether I'm more progressive or traditional.

01:07:46.000 So I can come out and be like, actually, you know, I lean slightly left on a lot of these issues, but more libertarian, so it's a very difficult position to maintain, to be completely honest.

01:07:54.000 It's hard. 0.95

01:07:55.000 But Joe Biden is crooked. 0.92

01:07:57.000 He did illicit business deals in Ukraine. 0.85

01:07:59.000 You're conservative.

01:08:00.000 Tulsi Gabbard can come out and say she wants gun control, she wants to ban nuclear power, and that it was wrong to strike Syria with missiles.

01:08:07.000 She's a Putin asset, she's right-wing, she's conservative.

01:08:10.000 So when I hear someone like Hassan, for instance, say, Tim Pool, you're a right-winger and you know it.

01:08:15.000 I'm like, that doesn't mean anything, dude, because I know right-winger is just, what news do you believe?

01:08:20.000 But the issue I see with this that makes it very difficult for me looking at the state of this country and moving forward is, how many stories have to come out that are proven false

01:08:30.000 before any one of these people is going to be like, okay, maybe I should listen to Ben Shapiro or Tim Pool or

01:08:35.000 Seamus or Ian and hear what they have to say about these ideas because I've

01:08:38.000 insulted them and now it turns out that story I believed was false.

01:08:41.000 Yeah, well, and it's not even just about listening to us.

01:08:43.000 It's just about not listening to CNN anymore.

01:08:46.000 I don't know, like you said, I don't know how many things they have to get wrong

01:08:48.000 before people are willing to say, okay, I'm not necessarily going to move over to the right,

01:08:51.000 but maybe I should stop getting information from people who have, A, repeatedly lied to me,

01:08:55.000 B, never apologized for lying to me, and C, never faced any consequences when they did.

01:08:59.000 It depends on their emotional state.

01:09:01.000 If they're calm, it usually only requires a little bit of logic.

01:09:04.000 People are erratic. It's a lot more to a point of near impossibility

01:09:08.000 Nearly everything in America and a large part of this is social media has become a social litmus test right yours

01:09:13.000 you're expected It's not that you're expected to believe that men can become women and women can be men.

01:09:17.000 You're expected to say it.

01:09:19.000 And you're expected to say it publicly.

01:09:21.000 And this is a litmus test as to whether you're a good person or not.

01:09:23.000 And so the question is, do you want to be accepted in the proper social circles?

01:09:26.000 If you're accepted in the proper social circles, this means that you think that Tim Poole is bad, or you think that he's a right-winger, or you think that Ben Shapiro's a rabid right-winger who's intolerant of other people's opinions.

01:09:35.000 These are things that you're expected to say and believe if you wish to be accepted in certain social circles.

01:09:40.000 The pronouns test is there for a reason. 1.00

01:09:44.000 The reason that people are putting their pronouns in their Twitter profiles is not because people have doubts about 98% of the population whether they identify as male or female.

01:09:52.000 Because again, 98% of the population identifies as either male or female.

01:09:56.000 It's there when a clearly male person puts he him in his profile.

01:10:00.000 That's there to say I'm part of your group.

01:10:02.000 I'm part of your in-group and I wish to be accepted in your in-group.

01:10:05.000 Because what other reason would there be for that?

01:10:07.000 They say that it's all about acceptance and making people feel accepted.

01:10:10.000 It really isn't.

01:10:10.000 It's about making them feel that they are accepted.

01:10:13.000 It's about saying the thing that you're supposed to say in order so that everybody treats you.

01:10:16.000 It was like this with Trump, too.

01:10:18.000 You couldn't just say, you know, here are the 10 things I hate about Trump, but I like that the Abraham Accords happened.

01:10:24.000 If you said even, I like that the Abraham Accords happened, people were like, no, no, no, no, no.

01:10:27.000 This means that you're pro-Trump because you have broken, you have violated the taboo by saying that he is not evil and satanic.

01:10:33.000 It was, I think, Nate Silver.

01:10:35.000 I think it was Nate Silver, or it might have been Ezra Klein, one of the two, said they wouldn't even give Trump one good day when he took out the leader of ISIS. 0.85

01:10:43.000 Just one thing we can all be like, yeah, that dude was a monster.

01:10:43.000 Yeah.

01:10:46.000 And they were like, nope, nope, it was bad.

01:10:49.000 And that's nauseating.

01:10:51.000 I mean, I want things to improve.

01:10:54.000 But, you know, looking at, say, like the transgender issue in schools, which we can, you know, move into a little bit.

01:11:00.000 I grew up in a very urban Democrat area.

01:11:06.000 I went to public school.

01:11:07.000 I did go to Catholic school for a little bit.

01:11:08.000 I went to public school.

01:11:09.000 I never learned about my teacher's sexuality.

01:11:12.000 I never learned about their private lives.

01:11:14.000 In fact, that was kind of taboo.

01:11:16.000 In a public school on the south side of Chicago, 6th, 7th, 8th grade, and even high school, many of us don't even know our teacher's... I can't tell you my teacher's first names.

01:11:26.000 And there's only one circumstance.

01:11:29.000 Where, uh, I learned about my teacher's personal life, her name changed.

01:11:32.000 Oh, she got married! 0.64

01:11:33.000 And she had a picture on her desk, and one day we're leaving, and someone's like, who's that?

01:11:36.000 And she goes, it's my husband.

01:11:38.000 And they were like, oh.

01:11:39.000 And they were like, let's go, kids.

01:11:40.000 And that, that was, that was the end of it.

01:11:42.000 Now there's some kind of... You know, I bring this up because...

01:11:46.000 I grew up in Chicago.

01:11:47.000 Everybody knows, they always bring it up, like, oh, Tim says it a lot.

01:11:49.000 Yeah, but I grew up in, you know, a city that's been controlled by Democrats for now, what is it, a hundred years.

01:11:54.000 And I don't think it's normal what they're trying to claim these teachers are doing to kids.

01:11:59.000 It seems like a new phenomenon.

01:12:01.000 It seems like it crosses a line.

01:12:03.000 And the Wall Street Journal wrote, their editorial board wrote about this poll that came out showing that even among Democrats, I think it's 59% of Democrats, support Florida's parental rights and education bill.

01:12:14.000 I don't know where they expect to go with this politically, but clearly something is wrong in these schools that goes beyond left or right.

01:12:23.000 But I suppose to wrap this together, you're right-wing if you just say, hey, maybe strangers shouldn't talk to my kids about this.

01:12:28.000 That's a conservative position, I guess.

01:12:30.000 Yeah, I mean, I've never seen anything quite as politically inept as trying to turn parents into a voting bloc.

01:12:35.000 It's an unbelievable thing.

01:12:35.000 I mean, there are 63.1 million people in the United States who have a kid in their house under the age of 18.

01:12:40.000 And you're turning those people into a massive voter bloc, which has never happened, really, before in American life.

01:12:44.000 We had, like, security moms in 2004. 0.64

01:12:46.000 That wasn't the same thing.

01:12:47.000 It wasn't like we are actively targeting parents and saying that parents are indoctrinating their kids, we have to counter-indoctrinate their kids so that we can make sure that these are tolerant and diverse little people who accept and approve of our ways of life.

01:12:58.000 If you're seeking approval from a child, you're doing it all wrong.

01:13:00.000 I mean, the entire idea of being a parent, I have three kids,

01:13:03.000 the entire idea of being a parent is that kids are small monsters

01:13:05.000 and then you civilize them over the course of time.

01:13:07.000 I mean, they're very cute, they're very innocent, and they're also monsters.

01:13:11.000 They're like the worst people ever, who are also incredibly cute and wonderful.

01:13:14.000 They demand things from you all the time.

01:13:15.000 They have no sense of propriety.

01:13:17.000 They have no sense of logic.

01:13:18.000 And your job is to civilize them and to make them better people over the course of time.

01:13:21.000 Instead, we as a society are now a bunch of adults who are acting like children, and they expect the children to validate their points of view.

01:13:28.000 I mean, what you're saying is entirely correct.

01:13:30.000 I mean, I went to school in Los Angeles.

01:13:32.000 I was in public school for, I would say, about half of my education.

01:13:37.000 So I was in public school for elementary and then part of middle school.

01:13:40.000 And, same thing, I mean, I don't remember learning about the private lives of my teachers.

01:13:44.000 I'm sure I had teachers who were gay, there's one in particular who I'm sure was a gay man, and that never came up in class, because why would it? 0.98

01:13:51.000 And by the way, if he had put a picture of him and his husband on his desk, and then somebody had asked about it, then the proper response would be, you should go talk to your parents about this, it's a controversial social issue, go home, talk to your parents about it, it really isn't my place to say, I'm a social studies teacher, I'm a history teacher, I'm a math teacher.

01:14:06.000 I have no idea why any of this is remotely controversial, except that the left believes that they have to cram down their point of view on everyone.

01:14:14.000 And so if you're going to be imperialistic about my kids, you can't expect me to sit there and just take that.

01:14:18.000 I think it has a lot to do with that when it comes to the birth rate, conservatives have more kids, liberals don't.

01:14:24.000 And this means in 20 years, conservatives are going to keep gaining more political power while the left loses it.

01:14:29.000 But I wanted to ask you, when you were growing up, you were religious.

01:14:34.000 We became fully religious at about 11.

01:14:35.000 So I remember eating a KFC.

01:14:38.000 Do you think that helped you?

01:14:40.000 I read a bit about your backstory.

01:14:43.000 You skipped several grades.

01:14:44.000 You seem to have worked very, very hard.

01:14:45.000 You played an instrument.

01:14:47.000 What do you think it is about you that led you to be successful?

01:14:51.000 So, I think that, I mean, obviously, you know, I'm, thank God, I'm a pretty smart guy.

01:14:58.000 I was able to skip third and ninth, so I graduated high school when I was 16, graduated UCLA at 20, graduated Harvard Law at 23, but I think that one of the best lessons I ever learned is I was coming from So I was in public school until I was in fourth grade, then I went to private school for a couple of grades, and then I was back in public school.

01:15:14.000 When I went to public school, the public school I went to was a magnet, and you had to take an IQ test to get into the magnet.

01:15:19.000 It was the highly gifted program at Walter Reed.

01:15:22.000 And so they gave you a basic IQ test, and you had to get above a certain score, which is pretty high, in order to get in.

01:15:27.000 I got in, but not by like a ton.

01:15:29.000 I got in by some.

01:15:30.000 I was in this class with kids who had 180, 190 IQs.

01:15:33.000 There's a girl in our class who was doing engineering level calculus in maybe seventh grade.

01:15:39.000 Geniuses, geniuses.

01:15:40.000 And the thing that I noticed is that what my dad said to me is, listen, in most rooms that you walk into, in virtually every room, just assume, when you walk into a room, you're not going to be the smartest guy in the room.

01:15:51.000 But you can be the hardest working guy in the room.

01:15:53.000 And so, that turned out to be a very good lesson.

01:15:56.000 I look back at the people I went to Walter Reed with, and I don't know how many of them are successful.

01:15:59.000 I don't know how many of them have built things.

01:16:02.000 One of the things that happens when you're very smart, I think, is that you tend to think that things are going to come easily to you.

01:16:07.000 And it's very easy to fall into this pattern of taking things for granted.

01:16:10.000 For me, that was really never an issue.

01:16:13.000 Incredibly hard.

01:16:14.000 I've worked incredibly hard for a very long time.

01:16:16.000 You know, every spare moment, my staff can tell you, basically every spare moment, I'm reading, I'm writing, like, literally all the time.

01:16:23.000 And so, I attribute it, yes, some to thank God, some gifts, but a lot of it is just keeping your nose to the grindstone.

01:16:32.000 I had some moments, you know, that made me, I made some realizations.

01:16:37.000 I'm at Occupy Wall Street.

01:16:40.000 I show up and I'm a high school dropout.

01:16:43.000 Nobody knows my name.

01:16:44.000 I got a camera.

01:16:45.000 What did these activists say to me?

01:16:46.000 They said, man, you're the perfect example of what's wrong with this country.

01:16:49.000 You know, you're smart, you're hardworking, but look, you come from a mixed race background and you come from the South Side of Chicago.

01:16:55.000 It proves there's something wrong with this country where good, smart people should be succeeding and they're not.

01:17:00.000 And then a month later, I got featured in Time Magazine for my hard work, and they said, he's a white kid who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.

01:17:07.000 Verbatim is what they started saying.

01:17:09.000 I started posting, saying, whoa, yeah, white privilege.

01:17:11.000 All of a sudden, my family history, all of the stuff I had talked to them about in agreement with on, I wouldn't call it left-wing politics at this point, I'd say populism.

01:17:20.000 Like, hey, the financial crash led to a whole bunch of faulty spending, corrupt deals.

01:17:27.000 All of that's erased.

01:17:28.000 All that matters is, if you're successful, you can't be a part of what it is we're doing, so we're going to tag you.

01:17:32.000 This is exactly right.

01:17:33.000 I mean, they retcon people's paths on a routine basis.

01:17:35.000 So, I mean, for me, if you search about my background online, what you'll see is that I grew up, people on the left say this all the time, I grew up in a wealthy home.

01:17:42.000 That is not true, okay?

01:17:44.000 Like, I'm not, I never think, by the way, that if you were born poor and then you made it, this makes you better morally than somebody who was born rich. 0.99

01:17:50.000 I know people who were born poor who are jerks, and people who were born rich who are jerks, and that there's, you know, All that money does is make you more of who you are. 0.98

01:17:57.000 So if you're a nice person and you make a lot of money, you tend to be nicer because you have a lot of money and you can spend the money. 1.00

01:18:01.000 And if you're a jerk and you make a lot of money, you're even more of a jerk because now you've been liberated to be a jerk. 0.99

01:18:06.000 But, you know, I grew up in a two-bedroom home, 1,100 square feet, in Burbank, California, with three sisters. 1.00

01:18:12.000 Until the time I was 11, I shared a bedroom with all three of my siblings, right?

01:18:14.000 It was my parents in one bedroom, and us in the other bedroom, and one bathroom for six people.

01:18:18.000 And that's not like impoverished.

01:18:19.000 That was a nice middle-class, maybe lower to middle-class upbringing in Burbank, California.

01:18:26.000 And it was a great life.

01:18:27.000 And it was fine.

01:18:27.000 You know why?

01:18:28.000 Because I had the ultimate privilege, which I had two committed parents who were there for me, making sure that we were working hard every day, and making sure that we were taken care of.

01:18:34.000 And that's the only privilege that I think really matters in American life.

01:18:37.000 This is what the stats show, by the way, also.

01:18:38.000 You got two parents, and the parents are there, and they're taking care of you.

01:18:41.000 You are the privilege. 0.99

01:18:42.000 You won the lottery, you were born in America, and you won another lottery, which is you have parents who give a shit about you. 0.99

01:18:47.000 That sounds a lot like, you know, that's the privilege argument. 0.99

01:18:50.000 You literally called it privilege.

01:18:51.000 It is a privilege.

01:18:52.000 The issue is that the left skews the idea of privilege into things that are somewhat meaningless.

01:18:58.000 Well, things that don't require anything of them, right?

01:19:00.000 Because if I acknowledge that there's some sort of privilege in being from a two-parent home, then I'm now taking upon myself the moral obligation to ensure that if I do have children, that I stay with the person who I have that child with, so that I'm not depriving them of their potential.

01:19:12.000 But they don't want to control themselves sexually, so they'll never acknowledge that.

01:19:15.000 What was it like when you were 11, you mentioned it twice already, that you became religious?

01:19:19.000 And you said, did you move out of your... Yeah, so when you become religious in the Orthodox community, what that means is that you have to move within walking distance of the synagogue.

01:19:26.000 So that was coincident, right?

01:19:27.000 So when you become Orthodox, we'd been living not in walking distance of the synagogue, we would drive our car to the, near the Orthodox synagogue, and then you're not supposed to drive, so we'd park about a mile away, and then we'd walk, so as not to, you know, make people feel uncomfortable, that we were driving to synagogue, essentially.

01:19:41.000 And then we moved into a neighborhood where we were within a walking radius of a synagogue.

01:19:46.000 But yeah, it was, you know, it didn't, I thought it was, honestly, I thought it was great.

01:19:50.000 I love living in the Orthodox community.

01:19:52.000 I think community is massively important.

01:19:53.000 I think it's the main thing that's been lost in American life.

01:19:56.000 I think the nationalization of media.

01:19:58.000 Has destroyed a lot of the feeling of local community.

01:20:00.000 The ties that I have with my neighbors and the community where I live, it's one of the most important things in my life.

01:20:05.000 It's one of the most important things for my kids.

01:20:06.000 And I'm very fearful of the destruction of local institutions on behalf of national and international institutions that are seeking to dissolve the societal bonds that actually matter the most. 0.99

01:20:16.000 The stuff you care about is the stuff with your neighbors, not the stuff, you know, that you do on Facebook with some moron. 0.94

01:20:21.000 About how much time do you think you have left? 0.98

01:20:22.000 I don't want to keep you too long.

01:20:23.000 We've been going for about half an hour.

01:20:24.000 couple more minutes maybe. So I wanted to give Ian a chance to ask you about

01:20:27.000 climate change because in that in one of the viral videos I saw of you speaking

01:20:31.000 you said these these climate change stats and predictions don't take into

01:20:35.000 consideration mitigation factors. Ian is obsessed with graphene. Are you

01:20:39.000 familiar with it?

01:20:40.000 I'm not.

01:20:41.000 Go for it.

01:20:41.000 Pure carbon.

01:20:41.000 It's a hexagonally-latticed carbon.

01:20:43.000 We should pull it up.

01:20:44.000 Carbon dioxide to graphene, and you'll find it's... So they've been... It's basically gonna be like the 21st century steel.

01:20:50.000 It's a building material.

01:20:51.000 You can make touchscreen wallpaper.

01:20:52.000 It's a superconductor, super capacitor.

01:20:54.000 It can be lightweight.

01:20:55.000 You can...

01:20:57.000 I totally agree.

01:20:57.000 it with lots of different materials too and make all sorts of crazy alloys and things.

01:21:00.000 So you can deposit it from carbon dioxide and you talked about mitigating factors with climate

01:21:05.000 change and how scientific models tend to project without assuming that anything is going to change.

01:21:09.000 Right.

01:21:10.000 I totally agree. I made a YouTube video about this a couple months ago and I wanted to point

01:21:13.000 out I don't know if this you consider this a mitigating factor.

01:21:16.000 It's an adaptation.

01:21:17.000 Adaptation, that's the other phrase he used.

01:21:19.000 Adaptative technologies.

01:21:20.000 So I wanted to point you at this.

01:21:22.000 You said a little while ago that we're going to be competing with trees for carbon dioxide.

01:21:26.000 Yeah, if we do it wrong.

01:21:27.000 If we think ahead and we build the system so that we're taking just enough carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere and producing just enough to keep the trees healthy, then we'll be living in symbiosis.

01:21:35.000 But if we're reckless, we may end up That's really cool.

01:21:37.000 I mean, the one thing that I think about human beings, and this is what I said in that little kind of snippet, is that we are very good at adaptation and very bad at controlling ourselves.

01:21:45.000 So basically, when forced to by circumstance, necessity being the mother of invention, we will make moves to preserve our own lives, right?

01:21:51.000 We will, if the tides start to rise, we will move.

01:21:55.000 If the temperature starts to get warmer, we'll figure out air conditioning.

01:21:59.000 We've been doing this for a very, very long time.

01:22:01.000 And human beings are, there's a reason why we, who do not have claws and are less muscular

01:22:06.000 than other species, why we have adapted to the point where there are seven,

01:22:10.000 eight billion of us on the planet.

01:22:11.000 And the reason is because, thank God, our prefrontal cortexes are very well structured for adapting to circumstance.

01:22:17.000 We are tools.

01:22:18.000 We are active.

01:22:19.000 We're not just a tool-making creature.

01:22:21.000 We ourselves are like a jackknife of evolution.

01:22:23.000 And this is not me saying this.

01:22:24.000 It's like Brett Weinstein and his wife Heather Heyer.

01:22:29.000 I always mix up Heather Hying and Heather Heyer because the names are similar.

01:22:32.000 Whichever is the one who's the scientist.

01:22:33.000 Haiying.

01:22:34.000 Haiying, thank you.

01:22:34.000 Haiying is the scientist?

01:22:35.000 Yeah.

01:22:36.000 So yeah, Heather Haiying. 0.97

01:22:38.000 They wrote a tremendous book about this and basically what they say is that human beings are a jackknife.

01:22:42.000 And that's right, we are a jackknife.

01:22:43.000 And what that means is as things get worse in one area, we're able to adapt and we're able to change.

01:22:48.000 And all of these scientific models that basically say hundreds of millions will die.

01:22:52.000 You're assuming that basically people who are living on the coast in Florida today are going to be living on that exact same coastline in a hundred years.

01:22:59.000 I'll tell you how we know that everybody is going to adapt.

01:23:01.000 The reason we know this is because all the same liberals who are deeply concerned about global warming are buying coastal real estate for tens of millions of dollars.

01:23:08.000 If they really thought that in 20, 30 years, all that stuff was going to be underwater, why would they be spending... I mean, that's one of the memes that they use about me online, right?

01:23:14.000 They say that if you think that your house is going to be underwater, you're going to sell it.

01:23:18.000 And people are like, who are you going to sell it to?

01:23:20.000 Well, the answer is apparently a bunch of left-wing liberals who are buying all of the coastal real estate for $30 million.

01:23:24.000 Ben, I got this for you real quick.

01:23:27.000 What we're looking at right here is Martha's Vineyard.

01:23:30.000 As you may know, Barack Obama purchased a, I believe it was a $12 million property in Martha's Vineyard, just near the Edgar Town Great Pond.

01:23:38.000 The address is publicly available.

01:23:40.000 We're not going to show the address.

01:23:41.000 Let me show you what happens when we use the NOAA.gov website to raise the water level by two feet.

01:23:49.000 Okay, we've got a floodplain now in these areas, and this means you can see that the water level is starting to rise and erase some of the ground.

01:23:58.000 It is already affecting Barack Obama's property.

01:24:01.000 Two feet only.

01:24:02.000 Let's go three feet.

01:24:03.000 Okay, now about, you know, maybe 10 to 15 percent of his property is gone.

01:24:06.000 Four feet.

01:24:07.000 All right, now about 30 to 40 percent.

01:24:09.000 Five feet, more, I would say about 70 to 80 percent of his property is gone.

01:24:13.000 At six feet, all that's left is the building.

01:24:16.000 At seven feet, his property is completely wiped out.

01:24:19.000 At eight feet and beyond, there is nothing of Obama's property left.

01:24:23.000 Now- For him to take it off the previous owner's hands so that

01:24:26.000 they would have to use it.

01:24:27.000 Be safe, yeah.

01:24:28.000 The issue is, as you mentioned, I'm looking into this and I'm like, I think there's issues

01:24:32.000 if humans just, you know, drive off a cliff and we don't take care of ourselves.

01:24:35.000 But you mentioned it's going to take a thousand years for 200 feet of water.

01:24:41.000 This is what they've said in a thousand years, 200 feet of water.

01:24:43.000 And I'm like, do you think in a thousand years, humans just keep doing the exact same thing without changing?

01:24:48.000 They just plant their feet in cement and they just stay right there as the water level gradually rises above their nose. 0.99

01:24:53.000 It's really dumb. 0.88

01:24:55.000 The answer is that human beings are going to do what we've always done, which is why New Orleans is still there, right? 0.97

01:24:59.000 So after the levees broke, after Katrina, and it flooded New Orleans and 10,000 people died, they rebuilt all of the levees and they shorted up the levees.

01:25:06.000 And then last year, there was a massive hurricane that went directly through the same area and pretty much nobody died because it turns out that they didn't build the levees crappy this time.

01:25:12.000 So what was that?

01:25:13.000 That was a good adaptation that preserved the lives of the people living in that floodplain.

01:25:17.000 Now, let's say that they had been unable to rebuild those levees.

01:25:19.000 Do you think those people would have been staying in New Orleans?

01:25:21.000 They would have picked up and they would have moved.

01:25:22.000 Many of those people did pick up and move after Hurricane Katrina, figuring that they needed to move out of that area.

01:25:27.000 So again, human beings are great at adaptation.

01:25:29.000 This is true financially also.

01:25:31.000 You can always bet that human beings are going to solve a problem after it materializes.

01:25:34.000 We're not very good at foreseeing a problem and trying to avoid it.

01:25:37.000 But once the problem materializes, we're pretty good at reacting to it, just evolutionarily.

01:25:40.000 If you're going to ask me to do Ben Shapiro's voice right in front of him, it's actually really intense.

01:25:45.000 It's happened to me twice.

01:25:47.000 Firstly, I had to do my Dave Rubin impression in front of Dave Rubin, and then I had to do my Jordan Peterson impression in front of Jordan Peterson.

01:25:57.000 It's not always a comfortable experience.

01:25:58.000 I appreciate that the man's back against the car, but come on, would you do an impression of Summer back in front of me?

01:26:04.000 I would be embarrassed to do it.

01:26:04.000 Come on.

01:26:07.000 When you reacted to his video, where he did the impression, and then he reacted to you reacting, that was great.

01:26:14.000 That was beautiful.

01:26:15.000 You reacted to a cartoon I did of you, and then I did a cartoon of cartoon you reacting.

01:26:21.000 It's an infinite regress.

01:26:22.000 I love it.

01:26:24.000 Right on, man.

01:26:25.000 Yo, thanks for hanging out.

01:26:25.000 It's been a blast.

01:26:26.000 Thanks for letting me come by.

01:26:27.000 Absolutely, man.

01:26:29.000 Thanks to The Daily Wire for letting us crash in your trailer.

01:26:31.000 And before I leave, I just have to ask you, how do I subscribe to that chicken feed?

01:26:34.000 How do I make that happen?

01:26:36.000 Just go to Chicken City on YouTube.

01:26:37.000 YouTube.com slash Chicken City.

01:26:39.000 You can watch chickens.

01:26:39.000 My kids will be into the chickens.

01:26:41.000 And pets and everybody.

01:26:43.000 And I'll wrap up with one final thought on this, because it's weirdly, people on the left are insulting me over a live stream of chickens.

01:26:52.000 Will they insult you for selling emergency food when they think the world's gonna end in 50 years from climate change? 0.99

01:26:57.000 They're saying look how stupid these people are and I'm just like if you're not having fun. You're doing something 1.00

01:27:02.000 wrong I mean if you're mad about chickens, I don't know how we

01:27:05.000 have an argument There's no there's no appeasing them Ben

01:27:13.000 No, did you want to shout anything out or mention anything before we wrap up?

01:27:16.000 I can go check out all of our work over at daily wired You can check out my podcast, The Ben Shapiro Show, anywhere you get podcasts.

01:27:21.000 Or you can follow me on Twitter, where I'm trending every three weeks.

01:27:24.000 You have Ben Shapiro on.

01:27:24.000 All right, man.

01:27:25.000 Thanks for hanging out.

01:27:26.000 Thanks a lot.

01:27:26.000 And for everybody else, thanks for hanging out.

Timcast IRL - Tim Pool - April 17, 2022

Sunday Uncensored: Ben Shapiro & Jonathan Isaac BONUS Segments Back To Back

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