Join us as we discuss the latest Black Lives Matter protest in Elizabeth City, North Carolina, and a new story coming out of Virginia. We are joined by use-of-force expert, Andrew Brancan and reporter Ian Crossland.
00:00:00.000State of emergency is still in effect in Elizabeth City as protocols for the city's reopening are still in effect.
00:00:07.000The city is still in a state of emergency.
00:00:27.000emergency is still in effect in Elizabeth city as protests continue.
00:00:31.000They haven't been too rowdy like we've seen in Portland or in other cities, but there is now what appears to be an escalation of the rhetoric from Black Lives Matter.
00:00:40.000Their famous lawyer is on the scene saying that this man was shot in the back of the head, that he was executed.
00:00:47.000This might be another Hands Up, Don't Shoot.
00:00:49.000For those that aren't familiar, that was the big narrative around Ferguson, which, as many of you probably know, I was on the ground for these riots.
00:00:55.000And sure enough, it turned out Hands Up, Don't Shoot was not true.
00:00:59.000It was rhetoric, it was activism, it was propaganda.
00:01:02.000And we got the same lawyer now showing up in Elizabeth City.
00:01:05.000We also have another story coming out of Virginia, so it seems likely that we're going to get another summer of Peaceful protests, which will leave a wake of death, destruction and chaos as it goes.
00:01:15.000But hey, you know, the media likes to play things.
00:01:17.000So we're going to talk about these stories.
00:01:18.000We've got other stories in similar areas.
00:01:20.000We've got this new law in Florida pertaining to censorship, which is massive.
00:01:28.000It might end Wikipedia, period, because it would stop social media companies from banning news outlets based on their content.
00:01:36.000So no more fact-checking, no more Facebook fact-checkers, no more suppressing news outlets, no more Wikipedia saying this certain outlet is not reliable and this one is.
00:02:01.000But you wrote a lot about the Chauvin trial.
00:02:04.000Yes, I cover most of these high-profile cases.
00:02:06.000I covered every minute of the Chauvin trial, literally watched all the jury selection, all the court proceedings, covered the entire thing.
00:02:13.000Is it fair to say you know everything there is about the Michael Brown case, the Tamir Rice case, Trayvon Martin?
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00:04:36.000Check it out, and don't forget to go to TimCast.com.
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00:04:45.000We have a bunch of amazing segments from our guests.
00:04:47.000We will have a bonus segment tonight, and we're gonna be talking about a lot of things relevant to the Black Lives Matter riots, these cases, so you'll definitely want to check this one out.
00:04:55.000Let's jump into this first story, and we'll just get right into what's happening with this latest development.
00:05:00.000CNBC reports, FBI opens civil rights probe into killing of Andrew Brown Jr.
00:05:07.000The FBI confirmed Tuesday that it will investigate the killing of Andrew Brown Jr., a black man who died after police shot him during an arrest in North Carolina last week.
00:05:15.000The announcement comes a day after attorneys for Brown's family, allowed to watch a 20-second video of his arrest, said the 42-year-old was shot in the back of the head while he had his hands on his steering wheel.
00:05:26.000Brown was killed Wednesday, one day after a jury found Derek Chauvin guilty of the murder of George Floyd, whose death in custody reinvigorated the movement opposing police brutality against black people.
00:05:36.000We're also seeing The famous lawyer, civil rights attorney Ben Crump, he said, if they thought Andrew Brown Jr.
00:05:43.000did something inappropriately and criminal, you all would have seen the video by now.
00:05:48.000There was no need for them to be judged, jury, and executioner.
00:05:51.000Well, let's talk about what's been going on because, I mean, he's got a point, right?
00:05:54.000Cops shouldn't be judged, jury, and executioner.
00:05:58.000All these cops are subject to judicial review, departmental review.
00:06:02.000The truth always comes out in these cases.
00:06:05.000No one's hiding the body camera footage.
00:06:07.000Sometimes there's a procedure that needs to be followed under state law for camera footage to be released.
00:06:12.000To my understanding, the department is moving through that procedure with the court, the local court, to get that body camera footage released.
00:06:20.000But Benjamin Crump has a long history of less than comprehensively sharing information about these cases in a way to shade it in a way that's favorable to him.
00:06:30.000And what's favorable to him is to get a very large, typically multi-million dollar settlement out of the city as quickly as possible.
00:06:37.000That involves developing a propaganda tsunami around these cases that pressures politicians to spend other people's money, taxpayer money, to make their own political problems go away.
00:06:55.000Do you think he actually cares about these cases or what?
00:06:57.000We can't know with this case in particular because we haven't yet had an opportunity to look at the entirety of the evidence, but I can tell you he was involved in the George Zimmerman case, in the Michael Brown case, most of these high-profile cases, and in those cases where we have had a chance to look at the totality of the evidence, you only ever saw half the argument from Benjamin Crump, the half that made him wealthy.
00:07:18.000Yeah, well, uh, this is the guy who said he's the hands-up-don't-shoot guy, right?
00:07:22.000So now he's... I remember back during the Ferguson riots, they had this board where they showed a person and then they drew lines of, like, this is where he was shot and this means that.
00:07:32.000He's showing this board and he's, you know, drawing a line in the back of the head.
00:07:35.000You know, look, I hate to say it because for a while I always wanted to err on the side of, I think most of us do, on those that are victims.
00:07:42.000We want to make sure we're protecting the innocent.
00:07:45.000The problem is, how many times are we going to get abused by people who are giving us half the story or just bad information and then we end up with riots?
00:07:55.000Massive taxpayer payouts and a story is not what we thought.
00:08:00.000So when that officer, when the grand jury declined to indict the officer in the Michael Brown hands up don't shoot shooting, the whole world is shocked.
00:08:10.000Wasn't obviously that an unlawful shooting because they only ever were shown half the narrative.
00:08:15.000The narrative that was consistent with an unlawful shooting.
00:08:18.000But when you look at all the facts, You learned that Michael Brown actually attacked that officer, fought him for his gun, charged him, and Michael Brown was much, much larger than that officer.
00:08:27.000And the officer's use of force was appropriate, if you knew the totality of the facts.
00:08:31.000The same with the Trayvon Martin-George Zimmerman trial.
00:08:34.000The world was shocked that George Zimmerman was acquitted.
00:08:37.000Well, you would not be shocked if you'd actually seen, heard, all the evidence.
00:08:42.000You're only surprised if you only saw the evidence that was the part that Benjamin Crump wanted you to see.
00:08:47.000Are you familiar with what's going on with this Andrew Brown Jr.
00:08:54.000Again, it's so new that we haven't seen anything like the totality of the evidence, but I see Benjamin Crump with the same kind of placards, the same intimations that someone was shot in the back, so therefore it must be unlawful.
00:09:08.000There are many circumstances in which people are shot in the back, and it's entirely lawful.
00:09:12.000Do you know about that case in Atlanta?
00:09:14.000Where, I forgot the guy's name, the cops were, the guy was sleeping in a Wendy's drive-thru, he was drunk.
00:09:19.000The cops tried arresting him, he runs.
00:09:22.000He runs, he took, he fought them, took their taser, was running away, turned and pointed the taser back at the pursuing officer and that officer shot him.
00:09:29.000And then they said he shot him as he was running away, he shot him in the back.
00:09:32.000But that's an interesting point where, you know, of course that guy, I think he's still in jail, right?
00:09:38.000Like he's awaiting trial or something?
00:09:39.000I don't, I know he was charged for sure.
00:09:42.000I'm not sure if he's out on bail or currently in jail.
00:09:45.000You have a video where you can see someone is running away, but they can still turn and aim a weapon behind themselves, you know, and shoot at a cop.
00:10:35.000Now that cop gets in trouble and NFL players put Jacob Blake on their helmets and that guy assaulted that woman and was nearly going to kidnap her kids.
00:10:43.000The cop tries to save her and he becomes the bad guy.
00:10:46.000The unarmed Jacob Blake with a knife in his hand, entering a car full of children prepared to drive away with them when he's known to have crashed this woman's prior car.
00:11:24.000I know you were mentioning before the show, every instance where a cop unjustly killed someone, they've been held accountable.
00:11:30.000There are circumstances where people have experienced that aren't as bad, right?
00:11:33.000Where people feel like they're not getting accountability, which I think lends itself to the bias people have when they hear these stories.
00:11:39.000First, a lot of people will justly get a speeding ticket.
00:11:48.000Then there are some instances I've experienced where cops, you know, I had my Fourth Amendment right violated.
00:11:52.000They kicked their way into my home, my apartment, when I was in my early 20s, unjustly, and then realized, oh, wrong house, and they had to leave, and I've had bad experiences.
00:12:01.000I think people will see these stories where there are bad cops, often who get caught, and then assume every single circumstance must be a bad cop, because like what you said, but on a bigger scale.
00:12:11.000If this guy Crump is coming out and only showing one side of the story, everyone assumes the officer must be guilty.
00:12:19.000People are only seeing videos and stories where the cop is doing something wrong, or they're seeing the one side of it, and it affects their entire perspective of all police everywhere.
00:12:27.000And now we have 33%, according to Gallup, of people under 35 who think the police should be abolished.
00:13:00.000This comes down to, look, you know, you're a use of force expert and you comment on these cases and I'm a media critic and I'm always ragging on the media because it seems like often it breaks down to the media is lying to people because they make money off it as well.
00:13:56.000It's even worse than that, because they don't just not report on things they think their audience might find offensive.
00:14:05.000They aggressively report on things that can only be intended to foment hate and division, especially racial division, in the country.
00:14:13.000The modern media in its current iteration makes its money from rage and emotion and hate because that's what makes people watch and click and do all the things that generate their revenue.
00:14:25.000If they just reported the facts, this is what happened.
00:14:28.000You interpret what you think the implications of that are.
00:14:55.000Well, the schools want paying customers who shut up.
00:14:57.000And the media just want someone who's going to just follow the narrative because they can get more clicks, they can sell more subscriptions, they can make more money.
00:15:03.000And, you know, I'll tell you, I often have opinions that the people who watch the show really disagree with.
00:15:09.000And I often get messages from people being like, how could you have said that?
00:15:55.000Well, one of the things I like about you, Tim, is that we may not agree on everything, but at least I always know you're coming from a principled position.
00:16:01.000We don't happen to agree on this, because I think it needs to be, and I think Will said this on your show, the reason they've escalated the penalty is because the lesser penalty that was in place was not solving the problem.
00:16:14.000The problem is these people, by blocking the roads, are effectively making unlawful arrests of everybody in all those vehicles.
00:16:20.000They're endangering public safety by making it impossible for emergency vehicles to get through.
00:17:11.000I worry now by making it a felony, the prosecutors might be like, ah, that's a bit too harsh to charge him with a felony, so I won't do it.
00:17:32.000Often, the people who are arrested for these protests are out of jail before the officer who arrested them is done doing the paperwork for the report.
00:17:40.000There was a woman, I think, like in Portland, charged with felonies.
00:17:44.000Then she goes back and she like sets fire to the police station.
00:17:46.000Yeah, one part of the Florida law was a provision that says, hey, if you're arrested on this charge, you can't get released on bail until you're at least put in front of a magistrate, which is the normal process.
00:17:55.000So you can't do this catch and release.
00:17:58.000The cop basically has to write you a summons and let you go, because when he lets him go, they go right back to obstructing the road again.
00:18:05.000Let me ask you about the Chauvin trial.
00:18:08.000I was following your writing during the Chauvin trial, and the media was only giving us one side of the story.
00:18:14.000It was remarkable when I'd go to NBC, and they'd be talking about what the state prosecutor's witness said, this, this, and this, and they were all really great for the prosecutor.
00:18:24.000And then on Cross, when the defense actually challenged these ideas and did great, they would say nothing.
00:18:30.000So, sure enough, you mentioned earlier that a lot of people begin to expect a conviction, or at least an indictment, with Darren Wilson in Ferguson.
00:18:40.000People were shocked when this guy was not charged with anything, and it's because the media wasn't giving them the truth.
00:18:45.000However, over a long enough period of time, with propaganda and manipulation and riots, this time, not only did they get their indictment, they got a conviction on all charges.
00:18:54.000So, not only is the media giving a false view of things, but now it seems to be working.
00:18:59.000Right, so, by the way, a little inside baseball, that whole Darren Wilson case with Michael Brown.
00:19:04.000The reason he didn't get indicted was the prosecutor there made the decision to show the grand jury both sides of the argument.
00:19:11.000The facts in favor of guilt, misconduct by the officer, and the facts that mitigate, that made it appear to be a justifiable use of force, and he let the grand jury make the decision.
00:19:22.000He could have only offered the half of the story that would have gotten the officer indicted, but he offered both sides.
00:19:28.000Grand jury looked at it, said, nope, looks like a justified use of force to us.
00:19:31.000You know what happened to that prosecutor?
00:19:33.000Next election, he had a Soros-backed candidate who defeated him as prosecutor, and that guy ran, in part, the competitor ran apart on immediately reopening the Michael Brown case.
00:20:36.000He's a progressive prosecutor, and he had a domestic abuser arrested twice, and he cut him loose twice saying, oh, but the wife won't Right.
00:20:43.000You know, won't file charges against them, even though in California, domestic violence is a charge from the state.
00:20:49.000This it's, it's, you're, you're victimizing the state in this
00:21:03.000So this is what happens when you get, I don't want to draw a
00:21:07.000direct one-to-one correlation between him being this like new
00:21:10.000woke DA and releasing this guy, but it is consistent with what
00:21:13.000we've seen from these leftist prosecutors who are like, I'm going to let this guy go.
00:21:18.000Well, you don't get less crime by letting all the bad guys you've arrested immediately out of prison.
00:21:23.000This is the same prosecutor who told his assistant DAs, don't argue three strikes under Florida law for any of these people that are being brought into court.
00:21:33.000Now, reasonable people can agree or disagree about whether they think three strikes is good public policy or not.
00:21:39.000But here the prosecutors under him actually went to court to fight his order.
00:21:45.000And maybe they don't agree with three strikes themselves, but it would be unlawful under state law for them to do what he was telling his prosecutors to act unlawfully in arguing their cases in court.
00:21:55.000And they weren't willing to accept that legal liability.
00:21:57.000Well, who was the prosecutor in the Derek Chauvin trial?
00:22:03.000Who who was the one who basically initiated the charges?
00:22:08.000I don't know who would have initiated it.
00:22:09.000They had at least four prosecutors in court themselves.
00:22:13.000Oh, Keith Ellison, the state attorney general.
00:22:16.000Well, what happened in that case was the local prosecutor didn't want anything to do with the case, basically, and handed it off to the state so the state would take responsibility, which Keith Ellison was happy to do.
00:22:25.000And, of course, he then brought in a whole panel of prosecutors, only two of whom were actual state prosecutors.
00:22:48.000He's permitted to bring in anybody he wants that the court will accept as an attorney
00:22:52.000for that case and the court's generally willing to accept.
00:22:55.000And these, by the way, are all excellent attorneys.
00:22:56.000They're all very, very good attorneys.
00:22:58.000But it was a gross mismatch between these 10 or 12 prosecutors working on the state side and one, frankly, run-of-the-mill defense attorney.
00:23:08.000Perfectly nice guy, perfectly capable attorney, but nothing special working for the defense.
00:23:13.000Is there anything in modern history that is similar to what we saw with Chauvin, meaning the state brings in prestigious prosecutors, the city settles with the Floyd family during the trial?
00:23:28.000Have you ever seen anything like that?
00:23:30.000And it's extremely unusual to, especially during jury selection, there's no point then to rush to a settlement.
00:23:37.000You may as well wait and see if criminal liability has been found, do a settlement after the fact.
00:23:42.000If they'd settled very quickly after the event, I wouldn't have been surprised.
00:23:46.000But to wait as long as they did to jury selection and then suddenly rush to settlement, knowing the biasing effect, and maybe that's why it was done, knowing the biasing effect that it would have, And I've never seen a case in which the large majority of the quote-unquote prosecutors on the case were actually private attorneys who were brought in as a kind of hit team.
00:24:38.000But what often happens is the local prosecutor gets removed from the decision-making process and it gets handed off to a chosen prosecutor from a different district.
00:24:46.000That happened in the George Zimmerman trial.
00:24:48.000The local prosecutor To him it was so clearly self-defense.
00:24:52.000He quit his job rather than bring charges against George Zimmerman.
00:24:55.000And they just brought in Deborah Nelson from a different part of Florida to be the prosecutor in that case.
00:25:00.000Or you see the case handed off to a state-level prosecutor like with Keith Ellison in the Chauvin trial or with the Ahmaud Arbery case in Georgia.
00:25:09.000You have a prosecutor, local prosecutor, looks at it.
00:25:30.000Or maybe they feel the political pressure they're going to face is simply going to be overwhelming for someone who spent $1,500 to become a local prosecutor.
00:25:58.000Man, the propaganda is taking over and I gotta say, it's making me pretty pessimistic.
00:26:04.000You know, I try to be optimistic a little bit sometimes.
00:26:06.000I am fairly pessimistic, which is a problem.
00:26:09.000But, you know, we've had some, you know, James Carville comes out and says that wokeness is a problem.
00:26:14.000There are some signs that maybe we're starting to see people realize the problem of these narratives.
00:26:22.000But then I hear this stuff, and it's been ongoing for like a decade, and the Chauvin trial was the worst of the worst, where... I mean, when I... I think it was the LAPD use of force expert, I think it was?
00:26:33.000Was it him who said... Yeah, Sergeant Steiger, for the state.
00:26:36.000Was he the guy who said that Chauvin was entitled to use a taser, and chose not to?
00:26:42.000Because, of course, a taser is non-deadly force.
00:26:44.000Well, so how do you convince a jury that Chauvin was intending to assault or injure Floyd when he de-escalated, he used a lesser force option, and even called EMS?
00:26:55.000Because that wasn't really the question that the jury was being asked to answer.
00:26:59.000The question was not, how do we decide this case on the legal merits?
00:27:02.000The question was, do we want to convict this guy and all go home and live a quiet life?
00:27:06.000Or do we want to acquit on any one of these charges and be burned alive in our homes?
00:27:11.000The woman, one of the jurors, she didn't know she was an alternate, and I'm sure you saw this, said, I didn't want to go through the riots and the destruction again, and I was worried someone would come to my house and retaliate.
00:27:20.000Right, and you can hardly blame her, because the threat of violence is real.
00:27:23.000There's a reason they had national guardsmen outside the courthouse, there was barbed wire, the jurors were escorted to the courtroom by state police with machine guns.
00:27:32.000This is not because the threat of violence is fantasy.
00:27:56.000And the jurors, of course, are going to and from the courthouse every day during this trial, past the National Guardsmen, the barbed wire.
00:28:03.000They know that stuff exists for a reason.
00:28:05.000They were told by the judge, look, we'll try to keep your identity secret while you're in court, which is nonsense because all these people disappeared from their normal jobs for three weeks at a time, right?
00:28:14.000So everyone in their circle, social circle, knows that they're not gone, they're not there for a reason.
00:28:20.000And they know eventually the judge told them we will release your names to the public.
00:28:24.000Yeah, and It's not going to be a good outcome for me I mean the the defense use of force expert had blood and a pig's head left at his former home That wasn't intended to intimidate him or change his testimony.
00:28:38.000His testimony was over Right, it was for the jurors.
00:29:38.000But seeing this story and then hearing what you just said, we're talking about the Chauvin trial, the pig's head and blood left at someone's home, the riots and the threats from Maxine Waters.
00:29:51.000We have federal politicians saying, unless we get mob justice, we will riot more.
00:29:59.000How can there be confidence in this government, in our country, similar to what I'm... You know, it's not one-for-one with what the French generals were saying.
00:30:08.000But with this leftist dogma, it seems like their moral framework is, there is no truth but power, and might makes right.
00:30:15.000Why would any individual in this country who believes in the American moral framework, innocent until proven guilty, just sit by and let this happen?
00:30:24.000Now, I understand for the time being, they are.
00:31:03.000Um, I guess what I'm trying to say is if someone told me that based on everything that was presented to the jurors, the jurors found, you know, maybe manslaughter, I'd be like, that makes sense, I guess.
00:31:13.000I wouldn't, you know, I might not agree with that, but it's guilty on all counts, second degree murder.
00:31:19.000We all watched hours of deliberations.
00:31:21.000This is a case in which there were over 55,000 exhibits of evidence in which there was sufficient video that individual expert witnesses said they spent 100 to 150 hours reviewing the video evidence.
00:31:35.000And the jurors went into deliberations and less than 10 hours later came back with a verdict.
00:31:40.000That wasn't due deliberation and argument over the evidence in that case and whether it met the legal standard.
00:31:47.000And I think the public looks at this... Look, first of all, you have to...
00:31:51.000You'd have to accept that a jury that effectively has a gun to its head is anything like any model of justice any of us would want for ourselves or a loved one, because that's effectively what happened in this case.
00:32:02.000But first, people would have to recognize that that's what happened.
00:32:04.000And second of all, even if they did recognize that this was a gross injustice, and by the way, it's a gross injustice regardless of the verdict.
00:32:12.000So, Chauvin could have been convicted in a fair process.
00:32:15.000And justice in America is not supposed to be about the outcome.
00:32:18.000It's supposed to be about a just process.
00:32:20.000If we trust the process, we accept the outcome regardless of what it might be.
00:32:24.000But if the process is inherently corrupt, you don't get anything like justice out the other end.
00:32:30.000So first you have to recognize the process is corrupt.
00:32:32.000But even if you do recognize that, well, what's an individual person supposed to do about it?
00:32:37.000Except hope that when they're swimming in the water, the shark doesn't happen to come for them.
00:32:41.000So this is where I'm getting freaked out, right?
00:32:48.000And, you know, there were some political leaders in the country who said that Leftist ideology on race and gender is destroying France and they need to stop it.
00:32:58.000Now they're to the point where their former generals are warning Macron of civil war, and we've seen many similar articles in the United States from prominent publications talking about the prospect of civil war in this country.
00:33:09.000I know a lot of people on the left like to laugh about it, pretend it's not a reality, but then maybe January 6th might change their minds.
00:33:16.000When you see what happens with Chauvin, and based on the things you're telling me, where a pig's head and blood at the home of one of the witnesses who had already testified, a message to the jury, a Democrat, a federal politician who straight up threatened more violence, she didn't say the word violence, said more confrontation as they're already rioting.
00:33:52.000Not only are these instances going to keep happening, because sometimes cops use lethal force, whether it's justified or not, it's going to keep happening.
00:34:00.000It will be weaponized by hard left cultists, people who believe that might makes right and they can do whatever they want.
00:34:07.000And then there's not going to be a system of justice for anyone involved.
00:34:11.000Cops are already resigning in mass across the country and have been since last year.
00:34:32.000I mean, how does a regular person function in a society that has thrown out the rule of law?
00:34:38.000Well, mostly you just hope it doesn't happen to you.
00:34:41.000Mostly you just hope that you don't get targeted.
00:34:43.000That's the only thing you can hope for.
00:34:46.000The solution is certainly not private justice.
00:34:49.000That just makes you even more vulnerable to successful prosecution than if you had the background and training and badge and apparent authority of a police officer.
00:34:56.000You're not less vulnerable to this kind of prosecution.
00:35:01.000You're more likely to be mischaracterized.
00:35:02.000Look at the guys in the Ahmaud Arbery case who were making Uh, what was almost certainly a lawful citizen's arrest
00:35:08.000under georgia law You may not like the georgia citizens arrest law. I get
00:35:11.000that reasonable people can disagree But if you read the law, they almost certainly met the
00:35:16.000conditions for making a lawful citizen's arrest of arbery And they're not being treated like cops
00:35:20.000They're just being treated as people who wanted to be cops and murdered a black man for jogging through a neighborhood
00:35:26.000Uh, so I don't think private details are irrelevant. Yeah I remember when I covered that, and there's, I believe there's surveillance footage of him entering this private property.
00:35:39.000They believe there's no truth but power, and they believe Mike makes right.
00:35:42.000So when I come out and say, like, oh, there's a video of the guy who was trespassing, I mean, in West Virginia, you're allowed, I'm pretty sure, I could be wrong, so fact check me on this one, but I'm pretty sure you're allowed to shoot someone to stop them from entering your property.
00:35:54.000You don't even have to wait until they get on your property.
00:35:56.000You can prevent them from accessing your property.
00:35:58.000Well, in most states, if someone's attempting to forcibly and unlawfully enter your dwelling, your place of business, your occupied vehicle, there's a legal presumption they're doing it to cause you deadly bodily harm, which would justify your use of deadly defensive force.
00:36:13.000I don't know where you run to when you're in your home and you have to retreat from your own home.
00:36:17.000I guess if you're sitting in your bed in your underwear and someone breaks in your house, go stand in an alley somewhere in your underwear, I guess, and pray for the best.
00:36:25.000But that's the law in some of these places.
00:36:31.000Unfortunately, I certainly hope there is not a civil war.
00:36:33.000I mean, when we had a civil war last time, I believe the death count was something like 600,000, and that's just combat deaths.
00:36:40.000It doesn't even count people who starved and suffered other catastrophes.
00:36:44.000A civil war in America, it would easily be 60 million people who ended up dying, especially in the just-in-time economy in which we live and where your grocery store in two days, if it's not resupplied, is completely out of food, as we learned during the COVID era.
00:36:57.000But I'll clarify this point, you know, because it's been a minute since we've talked about civil war here on the show, but we talk about it decently amount in the context of the escalation of violence.
00:37:08.000I can't remember which guest this was, but they made a really great point.
00:37:11.000You know, I often say that when people look at civil war in the United States, the potential for it, and there's a Princeton professor who said we're in a cold civil war.
00:37:39.000Not the way we're structured societally.
00:37:42.000But even other countries where there's been civil war, it's a bunch of different pockets rise up and there's violence against local government, against different factions.
00:37:50.000We had someone on the show, I can't remember who it was, but they said, what happens in America will look more like Syria.
00:38:17.000I mean, I certainly hope it doesn't happen for all the reasons I just described.
00:38:20.000I think the death toll would be unimaginable.
00:38:23.000But there's really only three options, right?
00:38:24.000There's reconciliation between the left and the right, there's civil war, or there's subjugation of the right by the left.
00:38:32.000So, which of those outcomes are we going to pick?
00:38:34.000I don't see reconciliation anywhere in our future.
00:38:37.000I'd like to think there's not going to be a civil war, but I certainly wouldn't be happy about the third outcome, which would be effective subjugation of 49% of the population.
00:38:48.000I mean, when I see these cops, After everything you've just told me about the Chauvin case, and the way you present it, I mean, people being brought in under armed guard with cops, machine guns, pig's blood, all that stuff, I can't believe there are still police officers who would wear that badge.
00:39:05.000Because they are representing a city that knows what they did, a judicial system that knows what they did, and they're effectively supporting it by doing so.
00:39:14.000Well, they're not really staying though.
00:39:16.000So Minneapolis PD has lost something like 20% of its officers in the last year.
00:39:20.000You can't just apply that 20% generally because there's huge chunks of the police force that are not interacting with the public like street cops.
00:39:28.000They're at the academy, they're in the headquarters.
00:40:02.000We're going to see more cases in which cops are using force inappropriately.
00:40:06.000And by the way, I don't want to suggest to anybody that I think cops always use force appropriately.
00:40:10.000There's many cases where they use force inappropriately.
00:40:13.000But my observation, based on my experience, is when that happens, they are held accountable.
00:40:17.000So what I object to is this notion that cops are rampantly going around using force inappropriately and society's just letting them do that.
00:41:49.000I mean, it's cities where the police have long adopted that kind of approach that have become the high-crime hellholes, and not for people who live in rich suburbs, but for the people who live, are caught, captured, trapped in those urban centers of violence.
00:42:03.000Who, by the way, when they're asked, they want more police.
00:42:08.000We've seen from Gallup that many people in these places do say they want more cops, but I don't see them coming out to support the police, I don't see them going to fundraisers, I don't see them marching in the streets.
00:42:17.000So the way I see it is, you can tell me you want something, but if you've got people setting fires to buildings, destroying them completely, beating people in the streets, smashing windows, that's the voice being heard in the press, and you won't even stand up outside with a sign?
00:43:29.000Or we're going to see cops who just say, I won't respond to that call.
00:43:34.000Gun violence and crime will continue to skyrocket in places like New York, Chicago, and I believe LA, obviously the big cities.
00:43:40.000And then what happens when someone finally says, I'm going to fight back or I'm going to form my own neighborhood watch group and we're going to take up arms.
00:43:48.000Now you see the emergence of urban factions opposing uncontrollable violence.
00:43:55.000That's the seed for some serious urban conflict.
00:43:57.000I understand the drivers that would lead people to want to protect their own communities or homes by forming these private little cooperative groups.
00:44:05.000The legal jeopardy they're creating for themselves is unbelievable, because if something goes bad, if they are then involved in some kind of George Floyd-like event, The prosecutors will characterize it as a conspiracy among the group.
00:44:17.000Each and every one of them will be equally responsible for the worst conduct of any of their members.
00:44:21.000So if it turns out there's some lunatic in your group that you didn't realize was a lunatic until he got a chance to point a gun at somebody and he murders someone, straight out murders someone, if you're deemed a co-conspirator, you committed that murder, my friend.
00:44:35.000So let's, let's, uh, let's keep going with this logic.
00:44:37.000So first we already have the dramatic escalation in violent crime across the city, uh, across our cities, police resigning or blue flu or refusing to answer calls.
00:44:47.000We've, we have a rave, a mass wave of retirements from, from tons of, there was a story in, in, uh, out of New York, a 30 year old female cop retired.
00:45:23.000We've already seen videos of people pulling guns on protesters and rioters.
00:45:28.000We had the McCloskey's very famous case.
00:45:30.000There's also a viral video where I think it was a couple guys and a few women were standing at their street, the entrance to their block, holding a couple rifles.
00:45:37.000So we're already getting close to that point.
00:45:40.000So let's say the prosecutor, let's say rioters are rampaging through an area.
00:45:44.000Someone, uh, well, this has actually happened, right?
00:45:47.000So Kyle Rittenhouse comes out and says, I'm going to defend this, this area.
00:47:15.000The difficulty, the reason he's finding himself charged in this predicament, and this happens a lot in these cases, is that with the best of intentions, He put himself in an environment likely to turn violent.
00:47:26.000He appears as if he went to the fight as opposed to the fight coming to you.
00:47:33.000They went out of their house to confront the protesters.
00:47:36.000If they'd stayed in their house and a protester tried to come into their house, They would have been good to go, 100%.
00:47:43.000But when it appears or could be made to appear that you went to the fight rather than the fight coming to you, it begins not to look like self-defense.
00:47:50.000Even if technically, on what the law allows, it's entirely legitimate use of force.
00:47:55.000I don't know if you can answer this, but I'll ask anyway.
00:47:58.000And if you can't, just feel free to say so.
00:47:59.000But do you think Rittenhouse is going to get life?
00:48:02.000Again, it's one of these situations, much like the Chauvin trial, where you have to ask yourself, is this case actually being decided on the legal merits?
00:48:10.000On the legal merits, it looks to me like self-defense, 100%, all three events he was involved in.
00:48:17.000But if it's not being judged on the legal merits, then it's just a political witch trial, essentially.
00:48:22.000And then the outcome is all depending on, well, the political dynamics, the propagandizing around it.
00:48:27.000And of course, people are not getting both sides of the story again.
00:48:55.000Yeah, yeah, so... Well, you're privileged to use force as long as necessary to neutralize the deadly force threat against you.
00:49:02.000Once that deadly force threat is neutralized, you're not privileged to use force anymore.
00:49:06.000So, to the extent the person could no longer constitute a deadly force threat, then Rittenhouse would not be privileged to use force anymore.
00:49:12.000By the way... But would he know that, right?
00:49:16.000And it all is a factor of his reasonable perceptions.
00:49:20.000So it's quite possible, by the way, in the Rittenhouse case, there's cases we call awful but lawful, where both parties could believe they're justified in what they're doing.
00:49:30.000So the two guys who are chasing Rittenhouse down the street, they may have legitimately believed that they were chasing someone who just committed a murder of the first guy in the parking lot, right?
00:49:41.000That doesn't make Rittenhouse's use of defensive force unlawful, because his conduct is judged by his reasonable perceptions.
00:49:48.000If he believes he just defended himself against guy number one, and now he's being further attacked by guys two and three, well he's privileged to defend himself against the reasonably apparent threat those people present.
00:50:00.000So I guess the way I was looking at it is, you know, we had a conversation before the show, This third guy, I forget his name, he's got a gun.
00:50:38.000It's been a while since we covered this, but even after he shot the guy, then he gets up, and he looks around, and then just turns around and calmly starts walking back.
00:51:04.000He ran and presented himself to the cops, which is not the conduct of someone who's just committed murder.
00:51:10.000I guess what I'm saying is that it feels like a lot of people have said that he was in control.
00:51:16.000He was, you know, very much like He knew where to, like, he de-escalated essentially, right?
00:51:24.000I guess what I'm trying to say is if somebody was standing in front of me with a 9mm in their hand, I'm not just going to, like, calmly back away as they're standing there still holding the gun, and he did.
00:51:35.000Yeah, again, it's difficult to know what's in his mind.
00:51:36.000I mean, as human beings, we tend to engage in a lot of mind reading from a person's demeanor.
00:51:42.000We ask ourselves, hey, if I was in that situation, would I act the same way?
00:51:47.000Or, if I were acting that way, what would that tell me about my own internal thought processes?
00:51:52.000But it's very dangerous to do that, especially in the context of violent confrontations.
00:51:55.000Most of us are not in violent confrontations.
00:51:57.000Most of us haven't been in a fight since junior high school or wherever.
00:52:01.000It really affects how your, the way your mind captures and stores and processes information and makes decisions under stress, especially life-threatening stress, is completely different than the normal experience.
00:52:13.000So even Rittenhouse, if you'd asked him ahead of time, if you'd shown him that video of someone else involved in that, would have said, oh, I never would have acted that way.
00:52:21.000You don't know until you're actually in a situation.
00:52:23.000Well, that's, that's one of the jokes we've seen in the Micaiah Bryant case.
00:52:36.000People actually tweeted this as if in a split second, when someone draws the knife and you have a 10th of a second to make that decision, you could aim for the hand and lead the target as the knife is moving forward to hit just the knife and not the person behind the knife.
00:52:58.000Nine seconds between figuring out what he was going to do.
00:53:00.000There's a reason every law enforcement officer in the country, everyone who takes a self-defense course for using a gun, is taught to shoot center mass on the threat.
00:53:08.000Because you need those rounds to hit the actual threat, not hit innocent people downrange of the actual threat.
00:53:15.000And by the way, unfortunately, jurors won't know that, right?
00:53:21.000But most jurors don't know anything about self-defense.
00:53:23.000They might think it's perfectly reasonable to try to shoot a knife out of someone's hands.
00:53:26.000It's one of the reasons I tell people There's no way, just like in a physical fight, I don't care what your training is, your martial arts skills, how good you are with a gun or a knife or whatever, there's no way to reduce the risk of the physical fight to zero.
00:53:39.000You can get it low if you're really skilled, but it's always greater than zero.
00:53:42.000There's always a possibility you could lose that physical fight.
00:53:45.000And unfortunately, the same is true of the legal fight.
00:53:48.000There's no way to reduce the risk of the legal fight to zero.
00:53:51.000You could do everything legally correct, But then you're put in front of a jury.
00:53:55.000And if you're put in front of a jury, there's a 10% chance you're getting convicted because that's just the noise in the system.
00:54:00.000Because they might think, a prosecutor might convince them, shooting the knife out of someone's hand is a reasonable thing to attempt.
00:54:28.000Yeah, so looking at the Rittenhouse case and everything we've seen from the escalation of the lack of justice over the past decade or so, or at least the attempts at stripping justice away and the riots that have resulted from it, I'm worried that Rittenhouse is going to get life.
00:54:45.000They're going to give him everything possible.
00:55:47.000So in the Chauvin trial, the defense made motions for change of venue almost every other day, it seemed like.
00:55:53.000Motions for continuance, delaying the trial to a later date almost every other day.
00:55:57.000Every time they did it, the judge rejected it.
00:55:59.000And the judge's rationale was essentially, listen, This occurred in Minnesota.
00:56:04.000We have to have the trial somewhere in Minnesota.
00:56:06.000You can't have the trial in some other jurisdiction.
00:56:09.000Is there anywhere in Minnesota where the mob's not going to show up, where we're not going to have national guardsmen, we won't need barbed wire and barriers?
00:56:19.000So even if we change it to another venue, another jurisdiction within the state, we're still going to have the same, you know, Maxine Waters is not going to decline to go because it's in a different city in Minnesota.
00:56:32.000I hear that and I think the judge's public statement was that, but if I were to make a guess, and I know mind reading we can't do that, I'm imagining him, you know, if I were going to make a guess about what he actually thought is, If I do this, they're gonna come and burn my house down.
00:56:49.000I'll just, just, let's lock this guy up and get it over with.
00:56:52.000Right, because the only solution, if that's what you believe, if you believe, hey, we hold it here, it's unfair.
00:56:58.000If we move it elsewhere in Minnesota, still not a fair trial.
00:57:01.000To me, the answer to that dilemma is not, well, we'll just give him an unfair trial here.
00:57:05.000To me, the answer to that solution is, if we're incapable as a society of providing a fair trial, you can't try the guy.
00:57:13.000I mean, you just dismissed the charges with prejudice, and you simply can't subject anybody to an unfair judicial process.
00:57:20.000Could you imagine if Blackstone's formulation was still upheld to this day?
00:57:25.000They would have said, if the judge came out and said, it's impossible to have a fair trial, and then just out of my courtroom and told all the writers, it's your fault.
00:57:34.000Right, they would have burned the city down.
00:57:35.000And of course, the judge knows this, which is Spineless.
00:58:06.000constitutional right to a speedy trial, but generally the defendant doesn't.
00:58:10.000They want to delay as long as possible to get as far as possible in terms of time from the event and the heat and the emotion.
00:58:17.000I mean, there's a case in Florida where a retired cop shot somebody in a movie theater, killed him over who knows what, throwing popcorn at each other or something along those lines.
00:58:28.000I think that's been seven years now since that happened, and that retired cop still has not gone to trial, and he's 70-something years old.
00:58:34.000So I think the strategy is, you know, if we delay long enough, God will take him before, you know, he'll be subject to a prosecution.
00:58:41.000I'm worried that with Rittenhouse, we're going to get another... I mean, it's great for the leftists, for the cult.
00:58:49.000They're going to claim another victory in destroying the rule of law, proving that might makes right, they have the power, and that there's no justice in this country anymore.
00:58:59.000But I'm scared about what that will mean to conservatives and actually anyone in this country who pays attention.
00:59:07.000Most of these liberals who vote for the Democrats don't watch the news.
00:59:11.000They don't care, they don't know, whatever, CNN said it, it's fine, I guess, whatever.
00:59:15.000But there's a lot of people, like me, who are slightly left-leaning, and do follow the news, and, you know, the group of the politically homeless, the disaffected liberals, you combine those people with moderates and conservatives, and we are watching the destruction of the justice system, and the fact that the judges, the mayors, the prosecutors, all of these people Are so pathetic and spineless that they would rather sell out justice for their own skin instead of standing up for what they believe in and leading the charge on principle.
00:59:44.000It could be like an evolution of our justice system.
00:59:46.000If we, if we fix it, because I think in a modern age, those people are going to get doxxed and they probably would have their houses burned down.
00:59:52.000And the judge might've had his wife get, remember that one judge, someone went to his house and went to her house and murdered like.
00:59:57.000She murdered her husband and son, I think.
01:00:00.000So I wonder if we can start to have judicial processes where it's anonymous, where you have anonymous jurors like porting into an avatar with encryption and an anonymous judge.
01:00:12.000But you could somehow verify that they are real people.
01:00:17.000You'd end up with some kind of star chamber proceeding that was like a hidden justice situation like from Central America or something.
01:00:25.000And I think we have a right to, first of all, confront the accusers, to know who our judges are, to know who the jurors are, to be actively involved and not have this information withheld from you.
01:00:38.000The expert witnesses are going to be known.
01:00:40.000All those people are still going to be subject to pressure.
01:00:43.000And unfortunately, you know, America is exceptional in so many ways, and one of those ways is our criminal due process protections that we have, like a right to confront your attorney, your accuser, a right to an attorney, a right to a speedy trial.
01:01:23.000Because none of us can expect any more criminal due process than that guy got.
01:01:27.000Not you, not your kids, not your wife, not your brother, not your parents.
01:01:32.000Nobody can expect any more than we give the worst of us, which is why we've always given the worst of us those protections.
01:01:40.000There are pro bono attorneys who go down to Guantanamo Bay to represent terrorists.
01:01:47.000We put Nazis on trial after World War II, and now we have a large faction of people in this country who want to destroy that.
01:01:55.000And did you hear what many of these people were saying in the Chauvin trial?
01:01:59.000You had prominent outlets saying, the nation said, something to the effect of, in a reasonable world there wouldn't have even been a trial.
01:02:05.000He should have just taken the plea and it would be over.
01:02:07.000You have prominent activists on Twitter saying, why are we even holding a trial?
01:02:15.000And that's unfortunate because that's not really a world that I think any of us would want to live in.
01:02:21.000Unfortunately, I think the judge and the jurors are not getting due process either, because with the crowd mob mentality and the ability for people to organize on Twitter and docs and like go to their house that day and be like, hey, I'm not in, you know, Louisiana, but you are go get this address in Louisiana.
01:03:15.000That's not a way to survive a society.
01:03:17.000No, you can't expect the judges to sacrifice themselves.
01:03:21.000If every single judge, every time, said, F you, you will not terrorize me into putting an innocent man in prison, we would not have this problem.
01:04:04.000You don't want to know who, or you're not supposed to know who the people spying on you are because you'll go, they'll go get executed.
01:04:09.000So you kind of, I don't, I don't necessarily think we need like secret judges and juries making these like behind the scenes decisions, but if there was a way to protect their identities, That, I think, is the future of judiciary America.
01:05:08.000If we can get through it without the city incurring a billion dollars in property damage and a bunch of other people getting killed, well, that means we've got to sacrifice one cop, maybe not give him perfect due process of law.
01:05:18.000Well, that's just the price we're going to pay.
01:06:04.000It's something in that range, 10 to 20 years.
01:06:06.000And then she'll probably get four or something because she's no criminal history.
01:06:10.000You know, but there's other aggravating factors.
01:06:13.000So once they decide it's a crime, they convict you on anything, well then you're a criminal.
01:06:16.000And then you committed the crime while in police uniform, wearing a badge.
01:06:20.000And that becomes an aggravating factor for sentencing.
01:06:22.000I mean that's what Chauvin's looking at now.
01:06:24.000Under normal sentencing guidelines with no priors, he'd be looking at about 10 years, which means he'd get out in like six years.
01:06:31.000But they filed what they call, for Blakely, aggravating factors.
01:06:35.000He was a cop, wearing a badge, in uniform, in front of children, part of a group of people, the other police officers involved, so he could be looking at way more time than 10 years.
01:06:45.000Do you think these officers in Minnesota would hesitate to arrest you on a gun charge if you were constitutionally bearing Constitutionally expressing your right to bear arms?
01:06:55.000Not if it violated a Minnesota statute.
01:06:59.000And so you have these cops that you see the violence and the destruction happening in these places.
01:07:05.000They also don't want law-abiding citizens to have the ability to defend themselves.
01:07:09.000Now, I understand the cops aren't the ones who made the laws.
01:07:11.000But being the ones who enforce it at a time when the city has been attacked, when buildings have been destroyed, the police department is under threat, and they still work to support a system they know is crooked, after everything that happened, they would still, without hesitation, take away your right to defend yourself as a law-abiding citizen, and then, after choosing to stand in a burning building, While threatening my rights to self-defense, expect me to defend them?
01:08:23.000I mean, after everything that's happened, my attitude is, for one, if you're still going to stay in these cities where all of these problems are happening, it's not just happening in a vacuum.
01:08:34.000It's not like all of a sudden I'm standing alongside these leftists being like, yeah, all cops are bad.
01:08:38.000No, no, no, I'm not saying that at all.
01:08:39.000What I'm saying is we had, we had a, a, what, what are we going on now?
01:08:45.000Now, before the election, we had months of rioting.
01:08:49.000We had a political system supporting the rioters.
01:08:52.000We had Kamala Harris soliciting funds for the rioters, Joe Biden's staff donating funds for the rioters, absolute support for the chaos and the destruction, and an establishment media saying peaceful protests while there are fire raging behind them.
01:09:06.000And I said, okay, let's defend, you know, our police officers.
01:09:33.000Well, when the fire started, and we all tried putting it out, and it didn't work, and the fire took over the building, then I said, time to get out of the building, guys.
01:09:56.000If they're going to stay in a city that is... If they're supporting corrupt politicians and corrupt judges... I'm just saying, if they leave the job, they're not fighting crime anymore, right?
01:10:05.000They're not serving that societal purpose anymore because they're no longer police.
01:10:31.000Why are people marching on the streets?
01:10:32.000Well, they're voting for the prosecutors, and they're voting for the mayors, and they're voting for, you know, they're supporting the anti-police initiative in these cities.
01:10:40.000So then what gives these cops the right to reject the will of the people and think they can stay here and go into these neighborhoods where they don't, where they aren't wanted?
01:10:47.000Well, they can, because the politicians say you can go.
01:10:51.000Don't be surprised when we serve you up in the next witch trial.
01:10:56.000So these cops... And the good ones won't stay.
01:10:58.000I mean, any that can get out with any fraction of whatever they've earned in terms of a pension.
01:11:06.000They'll leave the profession entirely, or they'll join the state police, or the sheriff's department, or move to some other jurisdiction entirely.
01:12:07.000And there's a reason the prosecution didn't call any actual street cops, because they didn't want street cop testimony in that trial.
01:12:14.000What they got were the cops who were still there, who weren't on the street because they're in the academy, they're in headquarters, they're in senior homicide positions, where they're not actually expected to go hands-on with anybody.
01:12:25.000I look at what's going on in many of these cities and just think, the cops at this point who are staying are propping up a corrupt system and they're allowing it to persist.
01:13:11.000When Micaiah Bryant is fighting and she pulls a knife and tries to stab someone, the cop intervenes immediately in that body camera footage.
01:13:59.000And of course, every cop knows now that if he does go hand on with a suspect, the first thing that's going to happen is all the bystanders are going to come to the immediate conclusion that his use of force was inappropriate, unlawful.
01:14:09.000And those are exactly the kinds of witnesses that were brought up in the Chauvin trial.
01:14:13.000By the way, they mostly testified about their feelings about what happened, which should not be relevant in a criminal prosecution.
01:14:20.000Frankly, they should not have been permitted to say those words.
01:14:22.000When they said those words, it should have been objected to by the defense.
01:14:25.000I wondered why the defense didn't object at the time.
01:14:27.000Sometimes there's a broader strategy that pays off later where you don't want to be objecting even when you have the privilege.
01:14:34.000Unfortunately, I never saw the payback appear later during the trial, so I'm not sure what the defense counsel was there for.
01:14:39.000They're supposed to testify about facts, their observations of what happened, not their feelings about what happened.
01:14:46.000We had witness after witness after witness literally gasp and cry and tear on the witness stand.
01:14:54.000That alone should be grounds for a reversal of this conviction.
01:14:59.000So I wanted to talk about... I thought I had this pulled up.
01:15:25.000And now there's huge news where gun rights advocates are really excited the Supreme Court is going to rule on whether or not the right to keep and bear arms exists outside of your home.
01:15:35.000But I do think it's funny that a lot of people think it's going to be a positive, and the left seems to think it's going to be a negative.
01:15:41.000Probably because the court is, I guess on paper, 6-3, even though it's probably more likely 5-4.
01:15:46.000There's a good possibility that they rule against gun rights, and based on the track record we've seen over the past couple of years, it seems more likely to me that the Supreme Court is going to rule we don't have the right to keep and bear arms.
01:15:59.000I don't understand the people in the gun community who are just assuming that this is going to be a positive outcome on this case.
01:16:04.000I mean, were they happy with how the Supreme Court dealt with the election issues after the presidential election?
01:16:10.000Because they basically just washed their hands of the whole affair.
01:16:14.000Maybe that was appropriate, maybe not.
01:16:15.000I'm not an expert in election law, not even really an expert in gun law.
01:16:21.000But, you know, politics is downstream of culture.
01:16:24.000And to think that you could lose the culture, lose the legislature, lose the executive branch, and somehow the Supreme Court's going to step in with a cape and save you at the end, strikes me as an unrealistic expectation for any kind of sustained society.
01:16:38.000I'm looking at everything that's going on.
01:16:40.000You know, we've been talking a lot about the Chauvin trial, and frankly, the injustice.
01:16:45.000I mean, a juror flat out saying she was scared of riots and destruction.
01:16:50.000I think that's all you need to hear, but obviously you can see with your own eyes how it was influencing the jury.
01:16:55.000Now we have the very real prospect that come, well, you know, it could be good.
01:16:59.000It could be bad, but I'm, I'm, I'm sorry if I'm being pessimistic, but come October, it's October 4th, I think is when they're going to hear the, hear the case.
01:17:07.000They could come out and take away our rights.
01:17:09.000And I think that's the, that's the trend so far.
01:17:11.000Things have been just seemingly, seemingly, seemingly getting worse in terms of our rights in these areas.
01:17:16.000Well, I think the worst case scenario is not that the Supreme Court says you can't concealed carry anymore if you're allowed to do it currently in your state.
01:17:24.000They're not going to take away a right, but what they would do is leave on the table the option that, hey, if a state wants to take away that right, they're privileged to do that.
01:17:32.000New Jersey doesn't want to give you a concealed carry permit.
01:17:38.000But if the state decides that you basically don't have a right to carry a firearm outside of your home, the state's free to do that.
01:17:45.000It wouldn't affect you if you live in a state where you're currently allowed to carry, unless of course the politics in your state changes.
01:17:51.000Like in my home state of Colorado, they just passed some new gun control laws in the last week or so.
01:17:56.000The state is becoming more like California, less than the Colorado I moved into.
01:18:01.000I don't expect gun laws to get better there over time.
01:18:04.000And if they know they have the permission of the Supreme Court to crank down and diminish the right to keep and bear arms, I expect that they'll take advantage of that.
01:18:13.000So I'm curious though, by what logic could the Supreme Court say the right to keep and bear arms doesn't exist outside of your home?
01:18:21.000Well, there's no logical basis, but if you read any of these Second Amendment decisions that favor gun control, especially like decisions out of the Ninth Circuit, for example, in California, read the decision.
01:18:36.000It's like listening to someone argue with their spouse, and one of them is being completely unreasonable just to kind of score points on the other.
01:18:43.000They're just saying what they think they need to say in order to justify affirming an infringement of the Second Amendment, but it's not based on reason.
01:18:51.000These are emotional, not rational decisions.
01:18:54.000So like talking about mass shootings and things like that?
01:18:58.000It's arguments like, well, why would you ever need more than, like, six rounds in a gun, right?
01:19:02.000Which is what New York State had for some time.
01:19:04.000Maybe still it was a six-round maximum limit.
01:19:07.000But wasn't it you could have, like, a ten-round magazine, but you could only put six bullets in it?
01:19:24.000They buy their guns out of the trunks of cars, or they send their girlfriends or mothers into the gun store to buy the gun as a straw purchase.
01:19:33.000They don't have any respect for magazine limits.
01:19:35.000They don't care about not being allowed to carry in a school zone.
01:19:38.000They are criminals, which means they don't obey the law.
01:19:42.000So all these If one of the criteria for infringing appropriately on a constitutional right is supposed to be, at least it will accomplish the desired effect, well then gun control laws by their very nature can't do that because they don't affect the criminal actor.
01:19:59.000So we've got an erosion of the criminal justice system and an erosion of the right to self-defense.
01:20:04.000Is the goal just to destroy the country?
01:20:10.000I don't think the people making those arguments would claim that's the goal, but I believe from their perception, the goal is the accumulation of political capital for some, and frankly, just straight up financial capital for others.
01:20:23.000And they are gaining political capital.
01:20:25.000I mean, they get elected to these offices, they get put in charge, they are making the decisions.
01:20:30.000And if people don't like those decisions, they would need to elect other politicians.
01:20:56.000Voting is becoming increasingly more and more universal to the point where the Democrats have argued that 16-year-olds should have a right to vote.
01:21:03.000My argument has been like, well, I'm not saying it should be, you know, impossible to vote or we should go back to the way it was where you'd be a landowner or anything, but I certainly think at the very least you have to choose to vote if you want to vote, right?
01:21:14.000So we see the unsolicited mail-in ballots being sent to people.
01:21:17.000They're not even choosing to vote and they're getting sent the ballots.
01:21:19.000So they're going to, I don't know, whatever, sure.
01:21:21.000Right, so politics and public policy are not my area of expertise, but I would note that it's, to my mind, it's an open question whether universal democracy is a system that can work.
01:21:32.000There's a legitimate concern that once the majority of 51% realizes they can simply vote themselves, the resources of the 49%, that you don't have a functioning society anymore because the 49% will not be subjugated like that.
01:21:49.000was set up to have a Bill of Rights partly to constrain the government and its ability to infringe on our natural rights, but also to provide protections for the minority.
01:22:01.000So just having 51% did not entitle you to do anything you wanted.
01:22:06.000There were constraints on the government for just that purpose.
01:22:10.000It's interesting because you hear the argument from many Democrats, more of the corporate type, that a fringe minority has 50 Senate seats or whatever.
01:22:21.000It's like, you look at these states like Wyoming and they got two senators and it's like, right, because you're not supposed to have the right to oppress the minority.
01:22:27.000It's supposed to be that compromise is required and one state doesn't get to tell another state what to do just because there's more people living there.
01:23:28.000But what's happened now is no one even knows who their local politicians are.
01:23:31.000They have no idea who represents their county or, I mean, even their state.
01:23:34.000Well, one of the dynamics I think we increasingly see is that if you wanted to buy elections, you wanted to buy politicians just with money, no popular support for those people, you wouldn't target a thousand small elections.
01:23:49.000You'd target a handful of big elections.
01:23:54.000And I think we're seeing a lot of states where the legislature may be Republican, maybe by a large majority, and somehow they have a Democrat governor.
01:24:14.000Because as long as you hold that executive branch office, you can veto whatever the legislature does, unless you're able to override your veto.
01:24:20.000But it's a disproportionate amount of power that if you expended that money in a bunch of little races and came up with only 49%, then you effectively have no power.
01:24:29.000This is why I'm a big fan of, or at least I like to entertain the idea that we don't allow people to donate outside of their districts where they live, where they declare residency.
01:24:39.000Because you look at someone like Ocasio-Cortez, and she gets millions, you know, plus from outside of her district.
01:24:45.000Pretty sure the same is true for Marjorie Taylor Greene.
01:24:48.000The people who live in the area should be the ones making the decisions.
01:24:51.000Instead, people are dumping money not only into the donations of the candidate themselves, but into commercials in those districts to swing these elections.
01:24:59.000And then you get people in Hollywood, Going into Republican areas and getting Democrats to win these races.
01:25:08.000I mean, I understand the motivation behind a lot of this election funding regulation laws that are passed.
01:25:14.000I just don't ever see it being effective because there's always ways to work around it.
01:25:18.000And then there's non-monetary ways to support a politician that you can't do anything about.
01:25:23.000If movie stars are going to come in and campaign for one person running for an election, that's going to have an influence, if only because they'll get TV time.
01:25:32.000It's effectively free TV commercial space for that politician.
01:25:35.000And I don't see any way to stop that from happening.
01:25:38.000And for me on this show, you know, Ian brought this up the last time we talked about it.
01:25:41.000Well, by the nature of having a show with viewers, it would give me more power over anyone else because I can do a show from wherever I want and speak who I think is the right person to win, and it's powerful, it's influence.
01:25:54.000What ends up happening is we have a system where the people of New York's 14th did not legitimately, in my opinion, or I should say, didn't...
01:26:46.000So when you get to the lower races, like we talked about earlier, with who your local prosecutor is, they have no idea who those names are.
01:27:27.000How, how would this restrict certain people who shouldn't be?
01:27:29.000How would it, you know, not restrict to those who should be?
01:27:32.000None of us would go out to our local supermarket and canvas the first 20 people we meet to ask them how they should run their own household.
01:28:44.000They were like, you're You're getting money from the NRA, and he's like, yeah, they just give me money because they like what I already do.
01:29:02.000He went to war because that's how you acquired money.
01:29:05.000He had to pay off debts, debts he accumulated by running for elections and getting political favors.
01:29:10.000This is just the normal, this is what people do.
01:29:13.000This is how you work with other people to build political capital.
01:29:17.000It's not because everyone's perfect and pure in their hearts.
01:29:22.000But you know what I think the problem is?
01:29:24.000We are seeing an increasing detachment from community, where you have judges or prosecutors or individuals who just say, I don't care about my neighbor and I don't care about my country.
01:29:34.000I think the bigger problem is we're becoming more emotionally driven.
01:29:38.000And I think that's largely because of the way social media works today.
01:29:41.000I think that the news media has always been a powerful influencer of how people see the world.
01:29:46.000I mean, William Hearst bought newspapers so he could influence the world.
01:29:50.000Because he could... People only know what they see.
01:29:57.000So what they see written and how they see it portrayed becomes their lived reality.
01:30:03.000In the era, but that was when you might get a morning paper or an evening paper or see the news at six o'clock or ten o'clock for 30 minutes at a time.
01:30:10.000Now we're all immersed in this stream of propaganda and emotive clicking and baiting all day long.
01:30:18.000I mean, personally, I've taken the social media apps off my smartphone just to not be constantly interrupted and subject to that.
01:30:26.000If this if these social media platforms were drugs, Is there any doubt they would be controlled substances?
01:30:32.000Is it any doubt you'd have to be 21 or 38 or 42 before you could legally access that kind of content?
01:31:13.000What's going on in Florida with this bill that passed the Senate about censorship is going to be like a nuclear bomb being dropped in social media and the internet.
01:31:21.000Because the way I understand it, this would end Wikipedia as we know it.
01:31:27.000Because they wouldn't be able to remove news sources they deem unreliable because that would violate the law, which says you can't remove a journalistic enterprise for their content or opinions.
01:31:37.000But the politicians who voted for that, can they realistically stay politicians if they're demonized by social media, if they're outcast, if they're removed from those platforms, when even the sitting president of the United States has trouble with social media platforms?
01:31:52.000If you're a local politician in Florida and you can't Facebook or tweet or use social media to communicate with your constituents, but your opponent in the race can, Do you really stand a chance? That's why they passed the
01:32:04.000law or that's why it's it's almost it's going through it went to the
01:32:07.000Senate and that's why ronda sanders wants to sign it because it has to be done now before it's too late and it
01:32:11.000may already Already be too late. And if if they've done this back in
01:32:14.0002018 When I recall when I called the republicans too stupid to
01:32:18.000deal with the problem to save their own careers And then sure enough they ended up losing what like 30
01:33:10.000Jordan Jones says, I hope the 2A case makes its way through the court before May 15th so I know whether or not to send my tax payment to the IRS or just give it to TX.
01:33:47.000By the way, that's another way that the jury was influenced in the Chauvin trial.
01:33:50.000Even if they obeyed the judge's restrictions to not watch the news about the case, they were getting alarms on their phone every time curfew was initiated.
01:33:58.000So, you know that's not good news for your community, right?
01:34:01.000You know there's a potential for riots, and that influences you despite your best efforts to avoid the news.
01:34:07.000Stephen Pritchard says, Tim, come rafting with me in Harper's Ferry.
01:34:14.000I don't know if you saw, Stephen, but we were drinking Harper's Ferry Brewery a couple weeks ago.
01:34:19.000We have a bunch of those beers because we just, you know, we pop by and we're like, hey, we'll grab a bunch of beers while we're over there and it's particularly close.
01:34:24.000So I think we're right by whatever that location.
01:34:29.000fractal says joe biden needs some bio trust maybe he'll grow a spine incorporating the sponsor into your burn of the president very nice wd-40 says all right let's see uh WD-40 says, hey Tim, why should I, right-wing gun guy, advocate for black people in Democrat cities to have the right to bear arms when they vote 90% against gun rights?
01:34:57.000They voted for it, let them live with it.
01:34:59.000It's a good point, but the Second Amendment expresses the government's inability to infringe upon an inalienable right.
01:35:05.000So when I say, like, the people in these cities vote to abolish their police departments, well, that's a choice the community makes as to how they want to live, and the cops shouldn't stand for indignity, and they should know when they're not wanted.
01:35:16.000Everybody has a right to keep and bear arms.
01:37:32.000That's a lot of money by anybody's estimation.
01:37:35.000And if you're in an aggravated assault case, you pointed a gun at someone but didn't shoot, facing felony aggravated assault, that's almost certainly enough money for your defense.
01:37:43.000But if you've shot someone in self-defense and you're getting prosecuted, you'll go through $200,000 easily pre-trial.
01:38:23.000Or you get that much legal defense when you really need two or three or four times that much.
01:38:29.000I mean, the George Zimmerman case, for example, I've become very good friends with the attorneys involved in that case since that happened.
01:40:21.000There had been thefts there before, so the local police had asked them to keep an eye on the property.
01:40:27.000Under Georgia law, if you enter a property with an intent to steal, that's felony burglary.
01:40:33.000Once there's reasonable belief a felony may have been committed, you have the privilege under Georgia Citizens Arrest Law to make a citizen's arrest.
01:40:41.000They don't need to be right that a felony was committed.
01:40:43.000They have to have a reasonable belief that a felony was committed.
01:40:47.000And if they're privileged to arrest, they're definitely privileged to stop, because a stop is a lesser degree of constraint to someone's freedom than an arrest would be.
01:41:15.000Unlike the NRA, the Second Amendment Foundation actually goes to court to fight these gun law cases, and they win a very high percentage of the time.
01:41:33.000Well, you wouldn't know if 18 was a meaningful number over a 19-year career unless you knew what was typical for the department.
01:41:40.000Every officer gets complaints filed against them.
01:41:43.000These are people who, for a living, go hands-on with people, make arrests of people, people very rarely like getting arrested or being manhandled by the police.
01:41:54.000Whether 18 is a significant number is impossible to know unless you knew what was typical in that department.
01:41:59.000By the way, there's a reason none of that was admissible in evidence in court against Chauvin in this case because it's not relevant to whether he did anything wrong in this event.
01:42:08.000I don't know if I can, uh, if I should ask one of these... Someone has a question for you, but it pertains to Rittenhouse.
01:42:13.000I don't know if, uh... Oh, go ahead, ask it.
01:42:17.000I'm not... By the way, the reason Tim is, uh, hesitant here is because I indicated I'm not currently involved in the Rittenhouse case, but there's a possibility I might be, so... Well, then this question is perfectly reasonable, then.
01:42:28.000Socratic Disciple says, Andrew, since you are so confident that as 100% self-defense, why are you not, on his defense team, keeping this kid out of prison for protecting himself?
01:44:07.000Yeah, my response to the Chauvin case wasn't to destroy stuff, even though I thought it was gross injustice from my perspective, but was to change the system itself.
01:44:15.000I don't know if... maybe extremists don't go that route, but that's... if something happens to Rittenhouse, which also seems like a self-defense case, I would just opt harder to change the system.
01:44:29.000All right, Jason Spruill says, I live in the Elizabeth City area, and the protests seem peaceful so far, but they appear to be building to something more.
01:44:38.000People are currently blocking roads and violating curfew.
01:44:41.000Right, so what's happening now likely in the Elizabeth City case is that the people in these other cities, these activists, they have to get there.
01:44:50.000So it usually takes a good week while all of the activists and organizers come from various cities and then coalesce into the one city where the latest instance is happening.
01:45:00.000Let me just explain something for everybody.
01:46:27.000And I'm like, I thought, he's like, yeah, I know everybody thinks we don't, but like they can still do this stuff for certain reasons, I guess.
01:46:33.000I guess for the most part, a lot of them wouldn't be on the internet, you know?
01:47:25.000But if you set booby traps, you get in trouble, right?
01:47:28.000Yes, booby traps are not permissible anywhere because of the concern with booby traps.
01:47:33.000And this has been true through really all of American history.
01:47:35.000The concern is it's not being controlled by a human being.
01:47:38.000So what happens if there's a fire and a fireman comes in or a cop is making a call or some innocent intruder comes in, you know, a repairman sent to the wrong address?
01:47:47.000Then they get killed by your booby trap when there was no justification for that to happen.
01:48:23.000And, you know, things like pepper spray and a taser, impact weapons, clubs, they straddle the line between non-deadly force and deadly force, depending on the manner of use.
01:48:35.000So in that case we talked about where the suspect grabbed the cop's taser, was running away, turned and shot at the cop with the taser.
01:48:42.000The cop shot him with a pistol and killed him.
01:48:45.000If the cop is shooting a suspect with a taser, that's a non-deadly use of force, because there's no reason to believe the cop's going to continue to use force after the person's been neutralized.
01:48:54.000When the reverse happens, that's arguably a deadly use of force, because there's good reason to believe a criminal suspect will continue to use force on the officer, take his gun, and so forth.
01:49:03.000What if you put up a sign warning, you know, 10 feet ahead is a tripwire that would release pepper spray?
01:49:24.000But when they do work, they're so intense in their effect that it's not hard to characterize it as serious bodily injury, which falls into the deadly form.
01:50:51.000Because if every single person just said no, they would have no power.
01:50:56.000It's only because of the spineless losers they actually keep winning.
01:51:00.000Now, as for the police who are leaving, I'm saying...
01:51:04.000What do you think's going to happen when all of these cops leave because they're told no one wants them there?
01:51:09.000Let the communities live the way they choose without cops and let the judges deal with their own protection when they won't stand up for the police who are the ones supposed to be protecting them.
01:51:18.000By the way, I just want to put in as an officer of the court that Tim, of course, is fully entitled to his opinion about judges, but it's not me disparaging the judges, just for the record.
01:51:50.000I mean, there are grounds for appeal that are driven not just by the outlandish, outrageous things that a politician said outside the courtroom.
01:51:58.000There's conduct, really egregious prosecutorial misconduct that occurred inside the courtroom, in front of that judge, in front of the jury, that were grounds for a mistrial.
01:52:55.000And it's so, it's so hilarious now because in the middle of the show, before the conclusion happened and you realize it's pro-America, the left was laughing and gloating about how, you know, white privilege and patriarchy and toxic masculinity or whatever.
01:53:08.000Then the finale came and the guy they thought was the bad guy was a good guy.
01:53:11.000And the bad guys, uh, this flag smashers are just Antifa.
01:53:15.000And now they're actually writing articles where they're like, why is Disney bashing Antifa?
01:53:19.000They're making Antifa look like villains.
01:53:27.000Andrew Irvin says, Chairman Mao was wrong about a great many things, but he was right when he said that all political authority comes from the barrel of a gun.
01:53:39.000I think it's not the barrel of a gun, but I think a large portion is a fear of being ostracized.
01:53:46.000A lot of people virtue-signal political points because they just don't want to be booted out of polite society, as they call it.
01:53:52.000Well, political power is certainly exerted from the barrel of a gun.
01:53:55.000I mean, if you don't obey the laws, you might get a ticket at first, but if you don't pay the ticket, they'll come back, and if it keeps escalating, eventually you'll find yourself at the barrel of a gun.
01:54:05.000The power itself, at least in America, comes not from the barrel of a gun, but from the votes of the electorate.
01:54:09.000And when they do that wisely, we end up with a good government.
01:54:12.000And when they do it poorly, well, we end up where we are.
01:54:16.000I don't know if there's a way off this runaway train, you know?
01:54:19.000You got a lot of dumb people who keep voting for the same thing for tribal reasons.
01:54:22.000Virtue signaling, it feels good, whatever.
01:54:24.000I mean, to the extent, look, there's been plenty of political systems throughout human history that have gone into a collapse.
01:54:31.000And generally what happens during that period is that the people who can, who have the means and resources, find ways to protect themselves as much as possible from the cataclysm of that collapse.
01:54:41.000And the people who bear the burden are generally the people who lack the resources to protect themselves.
01:55:00.000Buy home protection and move to higher private security.
01:55:05.000Look, if you live in a rural area, you already need to consider buying guns to defend yourself, or depending on if you have a big business, private security.
01:55:14.000It's only in the big cities where people actually rely on police for a lot of these things, and I gotta be honest, it's probably only because the right to keep and bear arms has been infringed beyond all recognition.
01:55:57.000Not a big fan of private security as, like, the end-all, be-all for dealing with this problem.
01:56:01.000Personal responsibility, on the other hand, I think, first and foremost, you should defend yourself, your property, take responsibility for your own life, and not rely on cops to do it for you.
01:56:10.000Well, at the end of the day, you're always, really, your own first responder, right?
01:56:14.000You're never going to be attacked while a cop is standing next to you.
01:56:56.000That you can make a phone call and community police will be there to protect you within 10 minutes is an incredible boon of modern society.
01:57:06.000Alright, we got this from Joel Jamal, he says.
01:57:08.000Australian MP Craig Kelly announced he is proposing legislation to combat censorship.
01:57:13.000The legislation is based off Florida's bill that passed.
01:57:16.000This comes after his Facebook page of 102,000 followers was deleted by Facebook for medical misinformation.
01:57:25.000So what I love about this bill in Florida is that it could entirely nuke Wikipedia.
01:57:32.000So the bill says that if you're a journalistic enterprise, meaning that you have at least 100,000 monthly active users, which is not that hard to come by, or you produce at least 100 hours of content and have a viewership of over 100 million people per year.
01:57:45.000So I think they're trying to say 100 million active users might be defined differently in the law.
01:57:50.000You might have to be the New York Times or something.
01:57:52.000However, this means that many large channels, it means my company for instance, would be protected under this and that would mean we're allowed to write things and Wikipedia could not remove them.
01:58:02.000If that's the case, this whole idea of reliable sources they use where conservative outlets are banned but leftist outlets are considered reliable is gone and Wikipedia won't be able to keep out the opinions of individuals, they won't be able to ban them.
01:58:14.000Well, in my opinion, losing Wikipedia would not be losing much.
01:58:17.000I think they're the embodiment of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
01:58:21.000You read Wikipedia, it all looks fine until they write something you know something about.
01:58:28.000My only expertise is use of force law.
01:58:31.000There's lots of stuff I might look at on Wikipedia that looks reasonable, but when I read what they write about any use-of-force case, it is utter nonsense.
01:58:39.000So as far as I'm concerned, if they were to disappear, it would be like the world's dumbest encyclopedia disappearing.
01:58:45.000Would it be more likely that they just block Florida IPs?
01:58:51.000Oh, you mean like so that people in Florida can't use Wikipedia?
01:59:26.000I worked for Disney and I quit because it was corrupt.
01:59:29.000The police are working for corrupt departments.
01:59:31.000They can remain in security or they can find a better police department.
01:59:35.000The good cops in these corrupt cities can move to areas where they need cops, and they're not corrupt, and then there will be good, not corrupt cities with good cops, and then there will be major metropolitan urban centers full of bad cops, corrupt cops, and people fighting and stabbing each other.
01:59:49.000And if you want to live there, I don't know what to tell you.
01:59:51.000The only difference is when you left Disney, it didn't put the public at risk.
01:59:56.000You know, the job wasn't like police forcing.
02:00:00.000The problem is, when you're working in journalism, you're supposed to be informing people about what's going on so they can make better decisions.
02:00:08.000The system was corrupt and not doing that, so I left to do something that was better.
02:00:12.000The police officers working in these departments are not able to do their jobs right now.
02:00:17.000They're working for departments where they're not actually able to solve these problems because they'll be demonized and sent to prison for it, so they need to leave and make something different.
02:00:25.000I would suggest, too, that the notion that police are going to change the system from within reflects a complete ignorance of how police departments actually work and are structured, okay?
02:00:35.000The street cops are overseen by sergeants, and above sergeant you get to lieutenant, various commander ranks, up to the chief of police.
02:00:45.000Lieutenant on up are effectively political appointments.
02:00:48.000So no street cop is going to do things that are inconsistent with what his political bosses are telling him, or he won't keep the job.
02:01:13.000All these people ultimately serve political masters.
02:01:17.000We say that politics is downstream of culture.
02:01:19.000Well, police is downstream of the politicians you elect.
02:01:22.000If you want different police, you'd have to do it like New York City under Giuliani, where the boss of the city was able to affect changes in the police department.
02:01:31.000But if he hadn't wanted those changes, if he was opposed to those changes, they would not have happened, as we saw when we got a different mayor who didn't like Those stop-and-frisk type of policies, for example.
02:01:42.000Whatever you may think of stop-and-frisk, the point is, when the boss didn't want it anymore, it went away.
02:01:50.000says, Mr. Bronka, firearms instructor here.
02:01:53.000Do you have materials that can be purchased that would be good examples of use of force for students in a self-defense CCL class, videos, etc.?
02:02:00.000Well, the first thing I would say is take advantage of the opportunity to get a free book at LawOfSelfDefense.com slash Tim Pool, but we actually have an entire instructor program, certification program, for firearms instructors.
02:02:12.000We have lots of DVD, online courses, lots, just, we've been doing this for Almost 25 years now, folks, so we have tons of content.
02:02:21.000You go to our website, LawSelfDefense.com, you can learn more about all of that.
02:04:06.000Oh wait, I think clouds are coming, the sky's clear, and then all of a sudden clouds roll in, it rains, and then we're like, we'll just wait a few minutes.
02:04:12.000And then once the clouds clear, the sun comes out, it all dries up, and it's all ready to go.
02:04:15.000Did you get hit by a hurricane while you were there?
02:04:37.000If you haven't already, smash the like button.
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