In this episode, we're joined by Charlie Kirk and Will Chamberlain to discuss what's happening in the culture war, and how to win it. We'll cover: What's going on in Canada on Canada Day Why we should be worried about the rise of the alt-right How to win the Culture War And much more!
00:00:00.000You may have heard the news that a bunch of crackpots tore down some more statues, this
00:00:22.000time in Canada and on Canada Day, and it was Queen Victoria and Queen Elizabeth II.
00:00:27.000I talked about this earlier, and I said this kind of stuff is alarming because, you know, ten years ago, these people were complaining about video games.
00:00:34.000Ten years later, they're physically present, causing violence and destruction and tearing down statues.
00:00:38.000Eventually, when the existing politicians age out or die, These people replace them because these are the people who are politically and physically active.
00:00:48.000So unless something actually happens, we sit back, they take over.
00:00:52.000But there are a lot of people that are actually challenging, you know, younger people to think, to care about things.
00:00:59.000And there's an interesting tweet from Cenk Uygur.
00:01:01.000He tweeted that Ben Shapiro was panicking because they, conservatives probably, are losing the culture war.
00:01:12.000I run Turning Point USA, and people can check out our podcast, Charlie Kirk Show Podcast.
00:01:17.000And the whole point of everything I'm saying is that you guys work with high school students and college students, and you're essentially presenting an alternative worldview that they probably won't get from the mainstream media, obviously.
00:02:33.000Anyway, before we get started, head over to TimCast.com and become a member, and you will get access to exclusive members-only segments from the TimCast IRL podcast.
00:02:41.000This one time, I can't actually scroll down.
00:02:44.000The conversation we had with Dr. Chris Martinson is banned on YouTube.
00:02:50.000They didn't ban us, I just, if I show you the title, YouTube will remove this livestream, so I'm just not gonna scroll down, but you kinda get the point of why we have the website.
00:02:58.000There are conversations that need to happen, And YouTube has been censoring us.
00:03:16.000But it's going pretty well with your support.
00:03:17.000So don't forget to like this video, subscribe to this channel, and share the show because we're going to be getting deep on what's happening in the culture war and how to win the culture war.
00:03:27.000And I'm gonna start with this here tweet from none other than Cenk Uygur of the Young Turks.
00:03:32.000Cenk tweeted, I was watching a random Ben Shapiro clip because of a segment we're going to do today.
00:03:37.000It's amazing and hilarious how panicked they are that they're losing the culture war.
00:03:48.000I'm not going to get too deep in on this one, but I'm going to explain to you what matters to me in terms of the culture war.
00:03:54.000Now, first I'll say I don't know that they, if it's referring to conservatives, are losing.
00:04:00.000It's certainly not just conservatives on one side and just leftists on the other.
00:04:03.000There's a whole network of different political factions.
00:04:06.000Obviously, the intellectual dark web is a bunch of typically progressives who are not in line with Cenk Uygur.
00:04:12.000But, um, I just want to mention that on May 31st, 2019, Cenk Uygur defended child drag shows where a child dances on stage and gets money thrown at him and said it wasn't child abuse when he's brought into adult venues.
00:04:26.000And you want to talk about why the culture war matters?
00:04:30.000Because I don't think 11-year-old boys should be taking off their clothing on stage for a bunch of adult men who are handing dollar bills to him.
00:04:37.000That's just one thing we can talk about, but that really bothered me.
00:04:39.000If Cenk Uygur thinks he's winning that one, then heaven help us.
00:04:47.000Charlie, you are running an organization that actually is working with young people, so maybe there's some hope, I suppose.
00:04:53.000Yeah, I mean, the question of whether we're winning the culture war or not is an interesting one.
00:04:57.000I think there's certain fronts that we're definitely winning on.
00:04:59.000It's a multi-front war, and there's some things that we're definitely losing on.
00:05:02.000I mean, we're losing the kind of corporate HR battle of whether or not the companies that we purchase our products from are actually going to represent their customers or represent the values of their customers.
00:05:14.000definitely losing on that front. And until it actually hits the
00:05:18.000long term bottom line of some of these companies, that's not
00:05:20.000going to change. But I think you see from the what I think is
00:05:24.000the closest thing to the Tea Party movement in 2010, which is
00:05:27.000the school board kind of uprising, which is organic and exciting. And out of nowhere, that these ideas when
00:05:34.000actually presented in the public light are unbelievably unpopular.
00:05:39.000And woke ism, for lack of a better term, has been able to kind
00:05:43.000of sneak into these different institutions, because it's
00:05:47.000disguised itself under these sort of banner terms, kind of communicated by people that have the trust of the citizenry.
00:05:54.000But the more people learn about it, the less popular they actually are.
00:05:58.000If we do our job, I think it's inevitable that we're going to be able to push back against some of this.
00:06:04.000Some of the biggest issues we have, though, is that it seems as if the people with financial and cultural and corporate power are completely indifferent about the needs, wants, or interests of the actual people, and they're willing to crush you if you disagree with them.
00:06:19.000For whatever reason, powerful corporate interests, be it because they're infiltrated, I suppose, by ideologues, they're more scared of the left than they are of the right.
00:06:30.000The right can start a boycott, and it rarely ever has a big impact.
00:06:34.000But if the left comes out, what did we just have?
00:08:03.000And I was like, my thing is before the show, you might, yeah, before the show, if, if,
00:08:08.000if we can make them not do child abuse anymore, then they actually win.
00:08:11.000We're not trying to destroy people and make them lose.
00:08:14.000We want everyone to win by changing these bizarre behaviors and kind of create a better society, I think, so that everybody wins.
00:08:21.000Yeah, and the bottom line of all of this is the death of objectivity, right?
00:08:26.000So, basically, the Chenk worldview, which is nihilistic in nature, is that, well, who's to say that that's a bad thing?
00:08:33.000It might be somebody's truth that it's a good thing that the child can dance.
00:08:36.000It all comes back down and that's that that if you if you really go down to its most basic argument is can we as human beings use reason and our faculty and our consciousness to come to some agreed-upon terms of what is good what is bad what is evil and what is true and this used to be a basically a non-negotiable tenant of western society which is that we're going to agree that there is a moral law governing us as human beings.
00:09:02.000I would go as far to say that we agreed that there was a transcendent order And almost every single one of these initiatives tries to change the paradigm completely of how the citizenry or the population views that.
00:09:13.000And so, in its essence, it's deconstructionist, to say the least.
00:09:18.000We mentioned that you guys... I don't know what the right word is, but you communicate with younger people, high school students.
00:09:24.000Well, they're going to grade school, man.
00:09:27.000They're going to nurseries and younger.
00:09:30.000And this is all part of a broader project Of trying to almost push nihilism with evangelistic fervor.
00:09:38.000And there's an exciting part of this for us, because for the first time in a long time, we're no longer really having these robust discussions on corporate tax rates.
00:09:48.000We're now actually arguing very basic human philosophy, which is, do you think there is meaning to your existence?
00:09:55.000And if so, do you want to create an order or a civil framework to reflect that meaning?
00:10:00.000That is the true collision point we're seeing.
00:10:02.000You know, when I... Perhaps it's very... I don't know what the right word is.
00:10:06.000Hyperbolic or... It's a straw man to look at Cenk Uygur's, you know, one of the worst things he's defended.
00:10:14.000But I genuinely think that's a good and important point to bring up when he's talking about why they're winning the culture war, why it's... These are some of the things that they're actively defending, but I will point out...
00:10:23.000You know, look, I don't consider myself a conservative, but when I look at the right, we mentioned this briefly before the show, Steve King was his name, right?
00:11:15.000It's a regular mom who lives in the D.C.
00:11:17.000area who's upset about what's happening.
00:11:18.000Yeah, I mean, there's this big difference between the kind of moral universes that the left and right inhabit, and the left is much less about principle and much more about the ends that they think are ultimately moral.
00:11:29.000And I don't necessarily think it's nihilism, but I think it is ultimately defined by this kind of, like, you know, anti-racism, anti-discrimination ethic, that that's the only soul, that's basically the only real good.
00:12:03.000And so that ends up being this totalizing moral code, and it's so totalizing.
00:12:08.000That it justifies basically tolerating any sort of bad behavior from the people advocating for it, right?
00:12:14.000Because it's like this, we are ruthlessly pragmatic in service of this goal that we think is completely the single most important thing in the world.
00:12:21.000So even if the people we rely on to push it, you know, are activists or whatever, are behaving corruptly, doesn't matter.
00:12:46.000They said if it wasn't for that little girl, that young woman who filmed that, Chauvin would have gotten away with it.
00:12:51.000And I thought about that and I said, I responded with, don't forget the violence and the terror.
00:12:55.000If it wasn't for Antifa and Black Lives Matter, Chauvin may have actually gotten away with it.
00:13:00.000It was only because of the violence and the extreme pressure and the men with machine guns forced to come and defend the jurors, the jurors were scared enough to say, we're going to convict.
00:14:16.000That one of the jurors was absolutely compromised.
00:14:19.000If you go to a BLM incorporated rally and you lie on your jury application form, same thing happened to Roger Stone.
00:14:25.000I don't care if you're a far left-wing socialist.
00:14:28.000It says very clearly, and Will would know this better either in the 6th, 7th or 8th amendment, that you get a fair and quick and speedy process of a jury of your peers and it must be impartial.
00:14:38.000I'll throw it to you in a second, but I'll make one more point.
00:14:40.000My opinion is that the moment the judge said there is no venue in Minnesota by which we could have a trial removed from the circumstances of George Floyd, my opinion was, throw it out.
00:14:52.000If we believe that it is better that ten guilty persons go free than one innocent person suffer, and you cannot have a fair trial and you know it, charges dropped.
00:15:02.000It doesn't relieve the judge of the obligation to try and make it as fair as possible, right?
00:15:06.000And so move it to a more remote location that isn't directly next to where it happened.
00:15:11.000But I think the other really interesting thing is that, you know, the same people who are talking about how a 22 and a half year sentence for an unintentional homicide as being too lenient are called themselves criminal justice reformers and worried about mass incarceration.
00:15:25.000Like, if anything, I mean, the maximum sentence in Minnesota is only 30 years.
00:15:28.000This is not, you know, for the second-degree murder charge, which is really legally questionable because they use the felony murder statute, and the felony in this case was the assault, so it's the same thing that caused the murder, which means that that theory of second-degree murder would swallow up manslaughter.
00:15:43.000entirely. Well and the big lie the whole thing is that race had nothing to do with this. Nothing.
00:15:49.000Yeah and that that's the big the biggest of all lies was that this was all racially motivated
00:15:54.000and I mean Derek Chauvin interacted with dozens of black people before that encounter and it was
00:15:59.000George Floyd that was trading counterfeit bills. It was George Floyd that was acting
00:16:03.000very out of normal behavior and asked to be on the ground.
00:16:07.000I'm not Derek Chauvin's defense attorney.
00:16:09.000What I am, though, is trying to dispel this overarching narrative that dominated us that Derek Chauvin was like the reincarnation of Nathan Bedford Forrest, which there's no evidence to show that.
00:16:19.000In fact, Keith Ellison came out and said, we have no evidence this is a hate crime.
00:16:23.000I wonder how many people know who that guy is, though.
00:16:48.000The judge himself, though, himself said, look, based on Maxine Waters comments, you might have actually, let's say, means or a reason for a retrial.
00:16:57.000So this was nothing more than a hostage situation by BLM incorporated.
00:17:33.000Think about this insane double standard.
00:17:35.000So I'll pause real quick and just do a throwback to, you know, Cenk Uygur's tweet about conservatives or whatever, whatever faction the right is losing the culture war.
00:17:43.000I gotta tell you, if these leftists can go down and tear down statues with impunity, and they do, and in Philadelphia, when they tried to tear down Christopher Columbus, a bunch of dudes showed up with bats and crowbars and fended off this attack, so the city intervened and took the statue down.
00:18:43.000He was behind the wheel of a car, high on fentanyl, had a speedball in his mouth that he spit out in the back seat, and he's got statues.
00:18:52.000But it makes sense why they give him a statue, though, is because they need to keep the lie going, is that kind of the current power structure is basically organized around this event.
00:19:05.000And if they ever give an inch, and this is one of the reasons why the left is successful, is that they will never give an inch to us.
00:19:14.000So going back to talking about teaching young people, Ian, you made an amazing point.
00:19:19.000It's a guy who's behind the wheel of a car, under the influence, he was chewing on a speedball, meth and fentanyl combined, and good reason to stop this guy.
00:19:27.000I mean, we don't like... They kill kids when you crash into cars and everything.
00:19:30.000Just imagine a hundred years from now, though.
00:19:35.000We hope that you listening now, a hundred years, going through the historical archives, are like, Ian Crosland made the famous point about how this guy has statues in his honor, and this is what, you know, led to this moment.
00:19:46.000However, History is written by the victors.
00:19:49.000If these people destroying statues win, if the people indoctrinating children win, and Jen Cougar is right, then in a hundred years, they're not going to say what you said, Ian.
00:19:59.000Well, I'm changing my name to Victor, dude.
00:20:05.000No, they're going to write, the history is going to say that George Floyd was an innocent man who was wrongly targeted, they're going to remove the counterfeit bill, they're going to slowly over time the pictures of Chauvin will incorporate devil horns and he'll get bigger and bigger and Floyd will get smaller and smaller, even though Floyd was huge and Chauvin was small.
00:20:24.000History is written by the victors so in a hundred years they'll say this poor innocent man who was oppressed under a system of white cis heteronormative patriarchy was brutally beaten and murdered by neo-nazis and we honor his memory and the pictures and the images that will come out will show him on the ground like reaching up and people standing around like gasping.
00:20:44.000It's like I understand it was a tragedy man.
00:20:46.000I understand that we don't want this guy to die.
00:21:09.000There were no public sporting events, no gymnasiums, no social settings.
00:21:12.000People were lacking of purpose and they needed an excuse to try to reinvigorate the racial reckoning of how awful we are right before Donald Trump's election.
00:21:20.000And so it just so happened that because of a constellation of these events, They got what they needed and they being the people who capitalize on a single incident for a broader power grab.
00:21:30.000I wonder if young people are going to recognize, you know, young people who are like maybe 13 year old today, 13 year olds today, you know, they're not really paying attention to this stuff.
00:21:39.000Are they going to recognize the sheer insanity of having a pandemic and a national and even global lockdown but allowing protests?
00:21:47.000Are they going to, in their 20s, when they're voting, are they going to be like, it was really strange they did that, or will they completely forget because it will be scrubbed from the narrative?
00:21:56.000I mean, it depends on what the world looks like in seven years, which is largely why we're having this conversation.
00:22:02.000It depends whether or not we're going to be allowed to have these kind of conversations on these sort of platforms, which remains to be seen.
00:22:08.000I mean, kind of the last hope we have is the capacity to have dialogue.
00:22:14.000And that's the only way that people like that are ever going to find out the truth.
00:22:17.000And that's why shows like this are doing very well.
00:22:19.000And that's why services like Rumble are doing as well as they're doing, which is a very serious competitor to YouTube.
00:22:25.000And I want to talk about big tech because I think it's really interesting, but a 13 year old to think it's perfectly normal, unless presented with the alternative viewpoint that There's a pressure happening with big tech, though, and we were talking about this yesterday.
00:22:55.000You stop promoting it, you start suppressing it, you stop giving out notifications, you give a strike here, then you stop, and then you wait two months, and boom, another strike, so now you're stacking them up.
00:23:05.000My concern is, we've heard that YouTube, for instance, is now applying age restrictions on tons of videos.
00:23:15.000People who are effective at communicating with the younger generation will start seeing age restrictions.
00:23:20.000And that won't completely ban the content and smart, savvy young people will find a way around it, but it will dramatically reduce the reach.
00:23:27.000That pressure over a long enough period of time means your speech is stamped out.
00:24:00.000And so that kind of, You could say what you want, but that kind of fractional... Election season, I think a lot of that is due to... 70,000 to 500 is, that's a lot.
00:24:11.000For us, it was like, we probably lost around half.
00:24:14.000We were averaging maybe like 65k live.
00:24:16.000Now we do, you know, 30, sometimes 40.
00:24:18.000For you, it sounds definitely like suppression.
00:24:22.000Well, it's also because the crawlers are seeing how often I'm mentioning their competitor, Rumble.com, which I think actually is going to be a sizable and serious competitor to the YouTube Death Star.
00:24:32.000One thing for sure that people should be worried about, and it's also a potential way to camouflage censorship, is we had an election year.
00:24:41.000So you're locked down, it's election year, naturally views are through the roof.
00:24:44.000Now that election year is over, a lot of people are feeling like, well, my views are going to go down, right?
00:24:49.000But a lot of leftist channels aren't having that.
00:24:51.000So maybe, you know, Cenk makes a point.
00:24:53.000Yeah, when you control the cultural institutions and you can cheat, And suppress information, maybe then you'll actually win because you're not letting people be free to choose their own information.
00:25:29.000They all thought they started that way, and then they just felt this inexorable pressure, the combination of external activists and internal employee pressure because of who they were hiring, and have gotten to the censorious place they're in.
00:25:42.000I think it's just—and also the right-wing competitors are relatively—I mean, other than Rumble, which is doing well, but I think, you know, a lot of the right-wing Twitter competitors so far have failed miserably, I think is a fair description of what's happened.
00:26:34.000I think it was mentioned... Oh yeah, Vice wrote about it.
00:26:37.000They tried making claims that Mines.com, which Ian is a co-founder, that it was somehow harboring the far right when it was like six accounts that were inactive.
00:26:46.000Exactly, because when you go the route of trying not to censor people, People will take advantage of it and they'll make like 50 accounts and then spam egregious things.
00:26:57.000And then if you, if you say, I'm not going to censor you, they're like, that's like a green light to say the worst things you can sometimes just to, for whatever reason, to get a reaction, to make money, to, to change people's minds.
00:27:05.000So censorship is extremely valuable, but you just have to be super careful with it.
00:27:10.000But in that instance with Mines, it was like, there were six accounts that had, like, no posts, but posted, like, a banner image of some far-right symbol.
00:27:18.000And then Vice is like, Mines becomes the new haven for the far-right!
00:27:22.000And it's, like, just objectively not true.
00:27:25.000We just need to put all these journalists out of a job, right?
00:27:27.000Like, the simple thing to do here is just, like, we get the laws we need in terms of, like, non-discrimination, like, making, essentially, you have a right to use these accounts.
00:27:34.000Florida tried to do it, didn't get there.
00:27:36.000Um, but we do that and all of a sudden I want to make life easier in some sense for Jack Dorsey and Mark Zuckerberg.
00:27:42.000I want them to be able to look at these activists and be like, I'm sorry, if we did what you want, we would get sued and we'd lose.
00:27:47.000So we're not going to do what you want.
00:27:48.000Cause like, you know, if you had a racist clientele at a hotel that was like, I don't want you to serve black people.
00:27:52.000They'd be like, well, one you're a racist, so we're not going to pay attention to you.
00:27:55.000But two, even if we did, we'd, we'd be breaking the law.
00:27:57.000So we're not going to, you can't, you can't do that.
00:28:00.000So that's, that's the position I want the social media companies to be in.
00:28:03.000Yeah, but they don't want to be in those positions, but they're ideologically driven.
00:28:11.000He put a bunch of money into woke programs.
00:28:14.000He does a bunch of activism in Africa, which I don't know a whole lot about.
00:28:17.000But I'm not saying his activism is bad, but the man is ideologically driven.
00:28:22.000You heard what he said when I talked to him.
00:28:24.000This gets brought up a lot, but here we go again.
00:28:26.000When I was on the Joe Rogan podcast and he said, you know, when it comes to misgendering policy, there's people that we're concerned about and they could take their own lives.
00:28:34.000And so we're very worried and trying to protect them.
00:28:37.000And it's like, I understand that for sure, but there are a lot of people who are at risk for taking their own lives, and you're not protecting them.
00:28:42.000I specifically mentioned body dysmorphia.
00:28:44.000People who want to remove their hands, for instance.
00:29:22.000A lot of people might romanticize the past.
00:29:24.000It was probably bad in a lot of ways for a lot of reasons.
00:29:26.000Laws, morality laws, for instance, or obscenity laws, didn't make people not want to swear.
00:29:32.000George Carlin decided to swear anyway, and he got arrested for it because, like, I'm going to do it.
00:29:36.000It was that there was social enforcement.
00:29:39.000So yeah, I mean, I think the way to think about it is there's feedback going both ways.
00:29:42.000Some laws are really more shaped by culture than vice versa, and some laws make it possible for people to shape culture or prevent them from using it.
00:29:50.000So the reason I focus so heavily on big tech issues and why it's so central to me is because I see it as kind of a keystone issue for the right.
00:29:56.000If we lose on big tech, we're going to lose everywhere else because the tech companies are going to shape discourse and culture in such a way that we can't compete and are going to knock out all our best influencers, knock out all our people who are persuasive young people, etc, etc, etc.
00:30:10.000So like... They're coming after you, bro.
00:31:03.000When a turning point event shows up, and I'm not saying... I've not actually ever been to one of your events or anything like that.
00:31:08.000I'm just saying I understand you guys engage in political rhetoric.
00:31:10.000So the well is poisoned for young people when they see a meme saying Charlie Kirk is dumb or something.
00:31:17.000Then what you get are these young high school kids will see an event coming to town and they'll be more easily told not to go because they want to be cool or fit in.
00:31:26.000Yeah, and I think there's a limitation on that, obviously.
00:31:29.000And, I mean, look, no one's above mockery, right?
00:31:32.000We're not going to take ourselves too seriously.
00:31:33.000I mean, everyone said really dumb things, including me.
00:31:35.000I could spend about four and a half hours on that, if we have that much time.
00:31:39.000And so an entire list of things I could say that were dumb.
00:31:42.000But I think, look, hopefully a wise person wants to be corrected.
00:31:47.000And the limitation on it, though, is I think that in those kind of Reddit 4chan circles, those people that do those things, They try to mock the people they see that are actually organizing something substantial.
00:31:58.000And so, I mean, I take it, hopefully, as well in stride as one can.
00:32:03.000And also, I just don't look at that stuff.
00:32:04.000I've deleted all social media off my phone.
00:32:14.000I read more books and host radio and do podcasting.
00:32:17.000But I would say it's not about necessarily your health or anything.
00:32:20.000But like, I just, just one quick side note on the Jack Dorsey thing is that if all of a sudden the social media companies are existing to be like the therapist of the entire like transgender community, that is an incredibly, that is not what you exist to do at all.
00:32:54.000I mean, if you're taking that much editorial responsibility, then take editorial responsibility and, like, just forgo your Section 230 liability and eat the defamation suit.
00:33:02.000It's just pandering to activists, right?
00:33:04.000And so, kind of just going back to this whole idea of kind of where the left-wing activist energy is going, It's been very interesting to track over the last six or seven months of kind of what they're focusing on and what they're doing.
00:33:18.000And I think that there is a tension point that's brewing of they're not sure really when to draw the line of when they're like, oh, no, no, no, we actually shouldn't cancel every single white person in the world.
00:33:30.000And they haven't said that out loud yet, but you're starting to see that reflected in some of their opinion articles and in some of the more left-wing podcasting world.
00:33:39.000They're all of a sudden starting to retreat a little bit from there because there is a fear that kind of the French Revolution guillotine is going to come for them too.
00:33:46.000I mean, Rob Spierre was murdered by his own followers and they applauded for 10 minutes.
00:34:04.000They blew his jaw off and let him sit there for like two days in pain.
00:34:07.000And there were people down there, and one guy said that was his dream, and when people were like, he was killed by his own followers, he was like, man, wouldn't that be great?
00:34:18.000These are people who are actively organizing.
00:34:20.000I'm not gonna say every single one of them is insane.
00:34:23.000Some of them are idealistic and utopian, and some of them are outright sociopathic, thinking like, wow, how cool would that be to have my jaw blown off and then be guillotined by my own followers!
00:34:49.000The deletion of their history, very much inspired by Rousseau, but the arc tells us where this leads.
00:34:58.000And this is really the desire of the rulers of our country, which is you will get an autocrat.
00:35:04.000It's just this sort of manufactured chaos, the blood in the streets, the French Revolution types that kill tens of thousands of people, is yeah, then you're going to get a Napoleon.
00:35:22.000So we're kind of in this revolutionary period.
00:35:24.000So we're ever going to go to Republican, small R style government or towards autocracy.
00:35:29.000I think it's autocracy, but the night is always darkest before the dawn, and just because these people... I think we're currently in some form of... maybe not autocracy is the right word, maybe oligopoly.
00:35:41.000I think there was a document, it's been a while, but during Occupy Wall Street there was a document circulated from Citigroup that said that the United States is not a democracy, it is an oligopoly or something like that.
00:36:02.000So I went to Zuccotti Park too and I was told because I was a conservative in high school to hate those people and now I go back to some of your footage and the footage that's there and I find very little I disagree with out of the main components of the criticism of Occupy Wall Street such as you have a small group of rather reckless people and financial institutions that made highly levered risk.
00:36:57.000If you went down there to occupy Wall Street on day one, it would have been an entirely different timeline.
00:37:03.000There were no prominent right-wing personalities coming down to guide that massive anger at the corrupt financial institutions in the government.
00:37:11.000So what happened was, there were conservatives, there were libertarians, there were leftists, there was regular people.
00:37:16.000I met Luke Rydkowski of We Are Change, who is like an anarcho-capitalist.
00:37:20.000He's all about that right-wing libertarianism.
00:37:23.000I met him down there, and we agreed on basically everything.
00:37:26.000We weren't concerned about tax policy when we're looking at corrupt government, but there were no strong, prominent right-wing personalities.
00:37:33.000In fact, when it came to Fox News, it was disparaging.
00:37:36.000The only disagreement I'll give you on that is that the movement was not ready for this nine
00:37:41.000years ago. The conservative movement. We had a muscle memory and we had a configuration to defend
00:37:47.000massive financial institutions no matter what. We were on team corporate, right? So like team
00:37:53.000right was team corporate. That was the conservative movement I grew up in, right? We were the party of
00:37:58.000saying, you know what, it's a good thing that Mitt Romney has a car elevator and he says the trees
00:38:01.000are the right height and he puts a dog on his car and we like it and Bain Capital is awesome and we
00:38:06.000love China and plastic from China and from Wuhan is the greatest thing ever and if you disagree with
00:38:10.000me you're a socialist. That was how we were trained to debate in 2012, 13 and 14 and Trump
00:38:17.000was awesome at all of a sudden challenging all these orthodoxies.
00:38:20.000So the only disagreement I have, and you might be right, Bannon, could have changed some of that.
00:38:23.000I don't disagree with you on that, though.
00:38:24.000I just don't think the movement was ready for it.
00:38:33.000You know, when we have someone like Vosh on the show, who's this prominent, you know, socialist YouTuber, when I mention Occupy Wall Street and things like that, he goes, I was a teenager, I don't remember that.
00:38:46.000This is one of the biggest challenges with talking to young people and getting them active.
00:38:51.000If dude's 16 years old and Occupy Wall Street's happening, of course he's not paying attention to the financial collapse.
00:38:57.000That was three years prior, so he's a little kid, and he doesn't know about what Joe Biden is doing.
00:39:01.000Now you get a bunch of people who are 18 years old and 20 years old, and they're going to vote, and they're being told by the clowns on TV to vote for Joe Biden, and you go to them and say, His brothers' deals in Iraq, Occupy Wall Street, the financial collapse, their defense of big capital, and... I don't remember any of that.
00:39:20.000Yeah, I mean, I guess part of it is attributable to age, right?
00:39:24.000But I will say, though, and I just want to reinforce this point, the masters of the universe, for lack of a better term, the ruling class, as Angela Coteville would call them, which is a perfect term, they know that race is the perfect distraction issue.
00:39:38.000There would be a legitimate economic revolution if we could put CRT to bed.
00:39:42.000And it would be a good thing for our country.
00:39:44.000And I'm not saying we need to nationalize the airlines or confiscate Goldman Sachs' offices.
00:39:50.000What I am saying, though, is that there is a legitimate, there's a cartel that exists that makes normal people's livelihood more difficult to thrive and to flourish.
00:39:59.000The family is harder than ever to create and to have lots of children.
00:40:02.000And there's a bipartisan agreement on that.
00:40:04.000Well, I want to ask you about some tweets that people were highlighting of yours last year.
00:40:09.000The Juneteenth one, which I'm sure I'm happy to go through this.
00:40:42.000I think we have learned a lot about what the true motivations of BLM incorporated in the last year are.
00:40:47.000And so when Juneteenth came up as this kind of idea that it needs to be a national federal holiday, And please do read my tweet, because I said that Obama never recognized this, or whatever it might be, like Trump did some sort of signing ceremony or something, is that it's so obvious that the National Independence Day Act, known as Juneteenth, was being drafted by the Democrats and agreed by Republicans as a direct summertime competitor to July 4th, to try to erase and remove Independence Day from the 4th of July, which was a direct and total eternal connection that Abraham Lincoln put
00:41:18.000from the Gettysburg Address to commemorate the day after the battle of Gettysburg,
00:41:22.000which happened July 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, to this idea that our founding actually happened with this
00:41:28.000peaceful contract and separation from the British Empire.
00:41:33.000I understand that on its face value, it's like, oh, you're being so contradicting.
00:41:36.000I don't, I don't, I actually don't think that. You know, I wanted to highlight it and have you.
00:41:40.000Yeah, I'm just saying that, you know, Justin Amash, whoever that guy is... When I saw the tweets that people were highlighting saying that you were hypocritical, I'm like, the tweet you wrote said, Senate Republicans are introducing legislation to make Juneteenth a federal holiday.
00:41:53.000Barack Obama and Joe Biden were in the White House for eight years.
00:42:04.000But the very simple reading is he's asking a question.
00:42:08.000Right, and then they highlight that with your current tweet where you said,
00:42:11.000Lincoln knew America's founding was July 4th, 1776. He knew that was the day our amazing nation
00:42:16.000made a step from ideal to reality. Juneteenth is an affront to the unity of July 4th. We now have
00:42:21.000two summer holidays and one of them is based on race. Shame on the GOP for supporting this.
00:42:25.000My opinion on that, we'll get into the CRT stuff is, I actually don't much mind having a Juneteenth
00:42:33.000holiday to celebrate the end of slavery. It was a- It was a war fought over it.
00:42:36.000Many people have mentioned that in terms of the soldiers who lost their lives, Memorial Day was specifically for this, for the Civil War and everyone who died.
00:42:44.000I look at this like, you know, if we're going to celebrate freedom, we can recognize that we had slavery and we fought a war over it and we're going to have a holiday for it.
00:42:50.000However, I can't remember who we were talking to who brought this up.
00:42:52.000They made a good point saying that their view of their view of it and their presentation of it is is all about oppressor versus oppressed.
00:42:59.000So it's it's it's it's basically instilling critical race theory by saying this holiday is not to celebrate freedom.
00:43:20.000First of all, then let's just celebrate when slaves were freed because of a wartime order by Abraham Lincoln, the Emancipation Proclamation, which I think was November 22nd, 1861.
00:43:34.000And let me just say a couple things on this.
00:43:37.000It also, this overemphasis on Juneteenth though, It doesn't actually tell the full story, which is 9 out of 13 colonies that signed on to the Constitution in 1787 had already independently abolished slavery by the time we had a Constitution.
00:43:54.000Vermont abolished slavery in 1777 because of the Declaration.
00:43:58.000The first ever anti-slavery convention that happened in the world was chaired by Benjamin Franklin in Philadelphia in 1775.
00:44:04.000And so this idea that we were nothing but slavery apologists, that, no, I know you're not saying that.
00:44:10.000No, no, but the Juneteenth holiday is being masterminded by Nicole Hannah-Jones and Robin DiAngelo.
00:45:24.000You do not get to be the head of state simply because religion wills it, or God wills it.
00:45:28.000Totally, and I don't mean to monopolize this, but as we're here this weekend on the Declaration, what's so amazing, when Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration, it was kind of a committee, and Benjamin Franklin chaired the committee.
00:45:38.000First of all, the original draft of the Declaration of Independence, in Thomas Jefferson's own handwriting, he blames King George for bringing the sin of slavery to America.
00:45:49.000Now, it didn't make the final draft because they needed slave-holding states to obviously build a coalition to be able to fight a successful war against Britain.
00:46:32.000Those 56 signers of the declaration, they were pledging it to each other.
00:46:36.000Now out of the 56 signers, we know at least eight of them were hunted down and killed in the months right after the declaration.
00:46:43.000About 12 of them, I'm going to get my numbers wrong.
00:46:45.00012 of them were died in the war and another six had their entire fortunes gone.
00:46:49.000I don't know if that there's a meme going around saying those things.
00:46:52.000I think they may be a bit exaggerated.
00:46:53.000So I did a lot of fact-checking on this and it's like semantically true like I think a lot of people were really gung-ho and said they were hunted down and killed and it was like they started a war they got killed in they weren't hunted down like You could be right.
00:47:08.000I mean, they signed it in Philadelphia in the middle of a summer, in the summer, which it was a port city against the naval power.
00:47:14.000So they knew that there was going to be some risk.
00:47:16.000It was the greatest military power the world had ever seen.
00:47:18.000They knew they were going to lose, actually.
00:47:37.000And I mean, Edmund Burke, who's kind of like the father of Western conservatism, him and Pitt, they tried to tell Britain not to wage this war because they said, look, we have more military might, but they have something we don't have.
00:47:50.000They have resilience and they're going to run to the hills and they're going to run to the rivers and they're going to outlast us.
00:47:55.000It was kind of the first ever guerrilla war, right?
00:47:57.000It was kind of why the Viet Cong were able to outlast us.
00:48:00.000It's why the Taliban was able to outlast us.
00:48:02.000We were kind of the Taliban Viet Cong equivalent.
00:48:05.000You can't, in my opinion, for the most part, win a war without propaganda and economics.
00:48:14.000If you simply go in and start guns a-blazin', the people will be resilient in their opposition to you.
00:48:20.000You will need massive, massive military might.
00:48:23.000And that means boots on the ground to occupy street corners.
00:48:27.000The problem with the British was that they're thousands of miles away and when they come and they occupy these homes and they ransack, it would make people angry and actually rally the cause in many ways of the revolution.
00:48:39.000The difficult thing was how you control the hearts and minds of the people.
00:48:42.000So, going back to the point about the signers and what they sacrificed, there are very serious ramifications.
00:48:49.000There's a meme that goes around where it lists everything that happened.
00:48:51.000I went through the list and I did some fact-checking.
00:48:54.000There was, I think, one guy who directly fought in the war and died.
00:48:58.000There was a dozen or so who had their homes occupied or ransacked.
00:49:02.000It wasn't, you know, these were men who when they said they were putting their honor, their treasure, their lives, it wasn't just that, it was their families.
00:49:12.000One guy had his wife kidnapped by the British to be used in a prisoner exchange.
00:49:17.000So when they capture an officer or something, they're like, I got your wife.
00:49:21.000That was a serious pledge to make, looking at your wife and being like, yeah, they might kill you.
00:49:25.000I think Ben Franklin's son joined the British.
00:49:29.000Yeah, I'm gonna look that up really quick, yeah.
00:49:31.000One cool thing is I think George Washington said he would never set foot on British soil ever again.
00:49:35.000So now that, you know, we're kind of cool with the UK, they shipped in a bunch of US soil in the UK and put it down and then built a statue of George Washington on it.
00:50:23.000Because the Lake Champlain borders right up against Lake Erie, and so the turning point of the War of 1812 was the anchored ship in Lake Champlain.
00:50:31.000We were able to do a run around and change the entire course of the war.
00:50:33.000But yes, I mean, the French were selling land like it was going out of style, and Thomas Jefferson took full advantage of that.
00:50:40.000With the Louisiana Purchase, obviously.
00:50:43.000I can't remember exactly what happened, but we sent our forces up to, like, Montreal, and then they went and ransacked the White House or whatever.
00:51:24.000Benedict Arnold obviously was selling secrets to the British for money, and he was in charge of West Point, which is obviously now the United States Military Academy.
00:51:32.000And so the person that was in charge of transmitting Benedict Arnold's orders had it in his sports jacket or sports coat, goes south on the Hudson River down to what is now the Dutch, which was the Dutch New York City.
00:51:46.000And Dutch port of New York City and an American colonialist cannon shoots at this guy's boat.
00:51:52.000Misses the boat but skims like a piece of wood on the boat and it goes up into the captain's nose.
00:51:59.000That's carrying the orders from Benedict Arnold, right?
00:52:02.000Basically in writing that Benedict Arnold sold out the American Revolutionary Forces.
00:52:07.000And so, he gets really annoyed by this little piece of wood, and he's like, you know what?
00:52:13.000Go to shore, and we'll find a new captain.
00:52:14.000Like, basically, I need to kind of, like, go find someone who can extract this.
00:52:19.000When they do that, they get to shore, and some American Minutemen intercept the ship and take them all prisoner.
00:52:25.000When they take them prisoner, they find Benedict Arnold's handwriting and concession orders that were selling out West Point, our most pivotal military base to the Britain.
00:52:33.000So if it wasn't for this little piece of wood, which I would consider to be basically divine intervention, we never would have found about Benedict Arnold who sold out our troops.
00:52:40.000And then they go back to George Washington.
00:52:42.000George Washington has kind of an aha moment.
00:52:44.000He's like, this is why the British always know what I'm doing before I do it.
00:52:47.000And some would say that would be the turning point of the Revolutionary War.
00:52:51.000So I think about July 4th and how I know about these things, and I think about the civil rights movement and how I know about these things.
00:53:00.000These are things that are deeply important to my family, and I love this line.
00:53:03.000They've probably said the same of you, but they say it of me and it makes me laugh a whole lot.
00:53:08.000There was a, I made a, there's a, there's a, um, I should have pulled it up.
00:53:11.000There's on Twitter, this, this, this guy posts a photo of the civil rights march and he says, stop this woke mob.
00:53:26.000So I went and I got that famous photo where they race segregated people of color and non-people of color diversity meetings.
00:53:35.000And I'm like, this is exactly what I'm complaining about and have been complaining about.
00:53:39.000Somebody responds with, if Tim Pool was a commenter in the 80s, he would have been pro-apartheid.
00:53:44.000If Tim Pool was a commenter during civil rights, he would have been pro-whites only.
00:53:48.000And I'm like, I'm against these things because I come from a mixed-race family, you morons!
00:53:55.000It is like, you talk about identity, and you talk about racism, and you talk about how people have this perspective based on their worldviews, and then when I straight-up say it, like, yes, these laws are bad because of exactly what you're saying, they say, not you, you'd support all the white people.
00:54:11.000My family went through hell in those years.
00:54:14.000These people don't understand anything to do With the historical struggle and how America planted the seed, the founding fathers, to create a great nation where we were able to win civil rights, expand civil rights.
00:54:26.000Quite honestly, the greatest country on the planet because of the freedoms that we allow people, upward mobility, the American dream, you're not going to find it anywhere else.
00:54:35.000Identitarianism, which is the core of what the critical race theorists want, and the white nationalists, is the rule of law for the planet, 90-something percent of it, and it has been the rule of law for humanity for every single year of human existence until 1964.
00:54:52.000We've had, what, 57 years of being like, okay, we're not going to base laws on race anymore, and they're trying to bring us back?
00:55:00.000Just to complete the point, identitarianism was not present in the philosophical community of the founders until a man by the name of John C. Calhoun came along, who became kind of the philosophical father of American identitarianism.
00:55:15.000And John C. Calhoun was the vice president for John Quincy Adams and Andrew Jackson.
00:55:19.000And he made the argument that basically rights must be earned.
00:55:25.000That you must go through a series of choices and decisions, and he said that blacks cannot earn them.
00:55:31.000And then his philosophical line goes straight to Nathan Bedford Forrest, the founder of the KKK, and now the current ambassador is Nicole Hannah-Jones.
00:55:39.000It's funny how the Democrats are historically just... I love how, amazingly, it's such an easy meme for the left where they're like, oh, you're saying that the Democrats are the party of the Klan?
00:56:15.000And remember that like a huge number of Black Lives Matter activists, some of that were out there trying to say that that wasn't a justified shoot, right?
00:56:22.000As though it were and I was like this blew me my mind and I don't know if you know it just was is amazing that somebody could advocate that but I really you know I read a really good book uh the weirdest people in the world and it talked about kind of how our morality is actually historically very strange right the idea of kind of a universal morality as opposed to one that is like is more uh localized where you right you know
00:57:09.000Focus on us, you know, over other people.
00:57:12.000Black Lives Matter saying, like, this, you know, children fighting with knives is an internal dispute and you, an outsider, shouldn't even take part in it.
00:57:22.000I actually, I agree with their message.
00:57:25.000I mean, look, I think that story was an absolute tragedy.
00:57:28.000This cop runs in trying to save lives, sees someone pull a knife, he tries to stop a violent assault.
00:57:35.000I mean, that cop must have been... I'm sure he went through some very serious trauma when he realized, like, she was the one who called for his help, and he comes in, and he doesn't know what's going on.
00:57:45.000There's a lot of instances where sure you have cops who do stupid or bad things and there are a lot of instances where there was one video recently where a cop shoots a guy and then immediately falls to the ground.
00:57:55.000This like 220 pound thick guy clearly in his 40s starts bawling his eyes out that he just shot somebody and he's shaking like he just killed a man.
00:58:05.000They act like these cops are machines but To the point about the tribal morality, if there's a community of people saying, don't come police, then I simply say, OK, we have a right to self-governance, right?
00:58:16.000If a community says we don't want cops in this neighborhood and we want to solve our disputes with knives, the police should respect the community, right?
00:58:22.000I mentioned that there was a story out of New York.
00:58:40.000The activists of Black Lives Matter, the high-profile individuals, didn't care when there was an internal dispute in the black community in New York that resulted in death.
00:58:48.000And my response is, they clearly don't care about this.
00:58:51.000Why should we impose our will on them?
00:58:56.000So let me just say, a lot of people are starting to say this, and the danger is then, well, was Dwight D. Eisenhower wrong to mobilize the National Guard to desegregate Southern schools?
00:59:25.000Right, so so but but I will stress the point when I'm saying don't send the police in I'm not Principally and literally saying all right.
00:59:33.000No, I'm trying to make a point that if these people I hear you Yeah, a lot of people are saying like you hate us you hate us the police structure so much then don't take care of your own affairs that is a tempting thing to believe but the the extrapolation of that belief ends up into hundreds and thousands of city-states and Where we no longer have a common tie to our fellow countrymen.
00:59:58.000Therefore, the promise of the Constitution of the Declaration gets invalidated.
01:00:04.000So, desegregation of schools, the National Guard comes in, and you are saying it was a good thing?
01:00:11.000I think it was a moral thing to do for Dwight D. Eisenhower to mobilize the National Guard and George Wallace back down.
01:00:17.000If there is a florist who refuses to provide services to a gay wedding, should the courts get involved and force the florist to do it?
01:00:25.000It's a great question, and it's a completely separate issue.
01:00:28.000It's similar, and it feels similar, and it's because Religious choice is directly protected in the First Amendment in two different things.
01:00:36.000The Establishment Clause and the Free Expression Clause.
01:00:40.000Now, so the courts have articulated what a religious test is.
01:00:44.000So some people say, well, my religion allows me to be racist.
01:00:47.000The courts have not upheld that ever, right?
01:00:50.000So, for example, the court case that continually comes up is this Colorado baker, right, who just is getting sued again, by the way, is that he has a business that requires an application process, he has a deliberate action where he has to make a good, and he feels that homosexual marriage is in direct contradiction to his scriptural belief.
01:01:09.000Does he have the right to say, I don't want to do this, you have to go to another baker?
01:01:34.000And so this is another important point, though, is that when they can't win in the courts, the process becomes the punishment.
01:01:40.000So they're not going to put this guy in prison ever.
01:01:43.000Instead, they're going to put him through a 20-year open year prison of millions of dollars of legal fees, names in the newspaper, his business basically on the verge of bankruptcy.
01:01:52.000At that point, the process becomes the punishment.
01:01:54.000But your question's a good one, right?
01:01:56.000Which is, well, what's the difference between racial discrimination and the reintegration of schools And the bakery.
01:02:02.000Number one, the bakery is a private establishment and it's not technically bound by the First Amendment.
01:02:07.000So that, meaning that that baker is allowed to have some form of conscious and different of opinion.
01:02:13.000Where a public school system has to be somewhat viewpoint neutral and accepting to every single person at local area.
01:02:19.000With that being said, the courts have added a tremendous amount of nuance of what a religious test actually is.
01:02:25.000For example, there were some people that were coming out and they're saying like, my interpretation of Christianity says I don't have to serve black people.
01:02:32.000The courts knew that was not an argument made in good faith and they dismissed that kind of lawsuit.
01:02:35.000That's why we have prudence, practical judgment, right?
01:02:38.000Whereas we can see with the baker in Colorado that this guy had a legitimate religious tradition of a well-recognized church that was well attended.
01:04:14.000Yeah, I mean, well, you know, when I talk about, you know, for example, platform access being civil right, I often get pushback about the forest, right?
01:04:21.000Like they say, well, if you think Twitter has to let you speak, what do you think about the baker in Colorado?
01:04:25.000And I think in addition to sort of the freedom of religion wrinkle that you're talking about, there's also a scale issue.
01:04:32.000Right, like there's, you know, in general, I think it's not wrong to think we should impose stricter and be willing to impose stricter regulations on trillion dollar tech monopolies than on individual bakers in Colorado.
01:04:43.000I think that there's no, and the idea that we have to have the same level of civil rights law applied to both is wrong.
01:04:50.000And I mean, I can simultaneously also think that, you know, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was absolutely righteous to break the regime of private discrimination.
01:05:46.000If you oppose us, this is what you get.
01:05:47.000Now we have that news the Supreme Court won't take up the case of the florist?
01:05:51.000It's the most selective libertarianism in the world.
01:05:53.000The left is only libertarian for the big tech monopolies in every other sense they are.
01:05:58.000I love the leftist person I was on YouTube saying, but they're private companies.
01:06:02.000It's like, bro, can I go through your 10-year YouTube history of all your anti-corporate messaging and please ask you to be consistent?
01:06:09.000And also, this is just a great example of when abstractions go wrong.
01:06:13.000Let's just use a little bit of prudence and practical wisdom.
01:06:16.000You have a combined market capitalization value of $6 trillion of four companies.
01:06:21.000We're really going to all of a sudden make a scale and size argument to your point, Will, that the Baker in Colorado has the same sort of impact on humanity that four companies with a $6 trillion market capitalization do that have entire departments of thousands of employees earning hundreds of thousands of dollars a year that do nothing but artificial intelligence.
01:07:33.000Yeah, well, you know, Ian, you have experience with moderating minds and the nightmare reality that is what people post on these web platforms.
01:07:42.000So to an extent, the ability to moderate is extremely important.
01:07:46.000I think if we actually saw Pandora's box open up with an unmoderated internet at this scale, people would probably just start throwing up right next to where they sit, the kind of things that are posted.
01:07:57.000A lot of it is that metaphor of like, when happens an injury, you notice it, you feel it, you think about it.
01:08:03.000But when everything's healthy and happy, it doesn't even cross your mind.
01:08:07.000So it's same thing with like internet content.
01:08:10.000If you see something vicious, it's loud and it's in your face.
01:08:14.000But if you just see normal stuff, it's kind of, you just kind of scroll past it.
01:08:17.000What ends up happening is, you know, we have section 230, which addresses lewd, lascivious, objectionable.
01:08:23.000And so there's a lot of things on the internet.
01:08:25.000I think if people... You know, these Facebook moderators, for instance, have, like, PTSD.
01:08:30.000And, you know, we often hear about these leftists who, you know, will have neon plush toy safe spaces at their colleges for when someone says a naughty word or something.
01:08:39.000And we laugh at the idea that they have PTSD.
01:08:41.000Or the journalist who claimed that firing an AR-15 gave him temporary PTSD.
01:09:11.000Well, it depends on how it's framed a lot of times.
01:09:13.000But I mean, like, there's good reason to moderate content.
01:09:17.000The problem is, the people who have seized the reins of that moderation, they saw that, you know, do regular people want to see a video of a guy being murdered?
01:10:42.000And it is very hard to sue for defamation, but that's not necessarily the issue.
01:10:46.000I mean, think about the amount of money you need.
01:10:49.000Look at James O'Keefe and the battle he's going through.
01:10:51.000He's like, we're trying to raise a million dollars to do this.
01:10:54.000Even when you have the ability to go to court, the cost is insane for any regular person.
01:11:00.000So, of course, you know, we talked with James on the show about the People's Defamation Defense Fund or whatever, and then they ended up launching Project Veritas Legal for that purpose.
01:11:19.000I mean, it's not, I mean, on one hand, even if we got the law better, You know, the money would still be a huge issue as a barrier to access to the legal system.
01:11:28.000But yeah, I mean, defamation is the most plaintiff unfriendly area of the law in basically out there.
01:11:36.000The Daily Beast wrote about John McAfee's passing, and they said that it triggered conspiracy theories, and they called me alt-right.
01:11:47.000And it's laughable that somebody would write that, because there's no context for it in any capacity that I have ever said anything or been involved in any of these groups.
01:11:55.000I sent a DM to the writer, and I was like, I just want to let you know, I'm not.
01:11:59.000And he was like, oh, sorry, and he changed it.
01:12:06.000I'm thinking about moderation still and like okay you see an image it's easy to say I don't want to see hashtag dogs but you can't say I don't want to see an image of you need artificial intelligence to say like this is a blown open body you don't know how to how do I say hashtag pictures I can't the words don't so it makes me think like these sites have to moderate they have to moderate the individual can't you can't technology is not that good and then I think like I want to know what you guys think, Will and Charlie, about freeing the software code of big tech companies, because I don't think breaking these companies up or forcing them to moderate in a certain way is ethical.
01:12:42.000First of all, I don't think breaking them up is functional.
01:12:44.000As we saw with Rockefeller's Standard Oil at the end of the 1800s, we broke it up into six oil companies.
01:12:48.000He had stock in all six, became richer and more influential than before.
01:12:53.000If we did that to Facebook, we'd have Facebook Prime, we'd have Facebook Messenger, we'd have Instagram.
01:12:56.000Zuckerberg would own bits of all of them.
01:12:58.000He'd be just as powerful, if not more.
01:13:01.000I think we need to force free the software code and give other people access to the ability to produce that technology.
01:13:09.000And then everyone can have their own type of moderation methods.
01:13:14.000Like if you want to say no to a guy, the gay couple that wants to have the writing on their cake, you can do that on your social network.
01:13:20.000But I have access to that code so I can build my own version of it and allow that.
01:13:24.000And then the market will decide where people go.
01:13:27.000Let's translate that into a simple question of What do you think the solution is?
01:13:32.000I don't think antitrust necessarily makes sense because who wants to use Bing, right?
01:13:37.000Yeah, antitrust in social media is a difficult one because I think they're natural monopolies, right?
01:13:42.000Like, people try and say Facebook and Twitter and YouTube are meaningful competitors.
01:13:47.000YouTube, I think, is one place where you can actually have meaningful competition, but Facebook and Twitter, it's very challenging because Twitter, I mean, I remember when Twitter was promoting Parler.
01:14:18.000Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Snapchat, TikTok, etc.
01:14:24.000And I think because they're so big, okay, then we're in regulation world.
01:14:27.000Then we're in, you know, we need some de-platforming protections, non-discrimination rules.
01:14:33.000And I think it is tricky to balance the need to moderate awful content with the fact that we need to make these platforms open to make the First Amendment meaningful.
01:14:45.000And so we want a world where they can moderate the really crappy stuff and completely and stay out of politics.
01:14:51.000And it's challenging to draw that up in a way that is First Amendment compliant.
01:14:55.000But I think it can be done because I think it ultimately, you think from a civil rights perspective, it's like we need to stop discrimination based on politics.
01:15:03.000But what if it becomes OK for four-year-olds to twerk?
01:15:06.000I want to talk about the Florida law, and we'll open up into that.
01:15:10.000So, in Florida, we just saw that Ron DeSantis' legislation to protect people was—what was it?
01:15:17.000Was there an injunction on it, or was it struck down by a federal court?
01:15:22.000Enjoyed by a federal court, right, so it won't go into effect.
01:15:25.000And that shows some of the issues, right?
01:15:26.000One of the things the Florida law did was it prohibited, it would have prohibited Twitter from appending its notices to tweets.
01:15:35.000And the problem with that kind of law is that's a prior restraint, right?
01:15:37.000That's the government saying to someone, you are not allowed to speak.
01:15:40.000And that's always going to be like strict scrutiny, very hard to get through.
01:15:44.000But one of the things that that case did do is it said, there's this case called Pruneyard Shopping Center v. Robbins, a Supreme Court case.
01:15:52.000And in that case, You know, there was essentially a California law that allowed people to petition in shopping malls to set up petition booths or whatever.
01:15:59.000The shopping mall owner was like, whoa, I don't want that.
01:16:02.000That's also a First Amendment violation because it's compelled speech.
01:16:05.000I don't want to associate myself with these petitioners.
01:16:08.000Supreme Court said, no, you're not the speaker.
01:16:11.000There's no First Amendment violation if a state wants to grant someone a right to use your property to speak if no one would associate with you speak and there's no like editorial component to it.
01:16:22.000And the court in Florida was like, this is the path.
01:16:24.000If you wanted to regulate these companies and allow people to have a right to speak on them, you could.
01:16:30.000You can't do something that forces Twitter to speak or associates them with a speech or prohibits them from appending their own speech and making their own point of view heard.
01:16:40.000What's the... Texas has a different law, and we heard from Alan Bakari that Texas's law is better.
01:16:51.000I mean, what can be done is actually one of the things I've been proposing for a long time.
01:16:54.000You had a private right of action that says people have a right to be on these platforms.
01:16:58.000If they're wrongfully censored for lawful speech, they can have their accounts restored.
01:17:03.000But so then just lawful speech is always allowed?
01:17:06.000I mean, writing a law that says you cannot kick people off of a social media platform for lawful speech, that law would be constitutional under the reasoning of this judge.
01:17:17.000But they have the ability to blacklist people, shadowban them, do all these things that aren't kicking them off, but you could essentially set their reach to zero, or next to zero.
01:17:26.000They could say, oh, you're allowed to post, but we will never show your posts in anyone's feed because we're not obligated to.
01:17:32.000I mean that's a possible attempt to like weasel the way around it, although I think I mean that's
01:17:37.000where you're still getting into, you're still discriminating.
01:17:40.000A well-written law, I think the Florida law itself said any form of suppression that puts
01:17:45.000someone outside of the normal function of the service. So like that's fairly obvious you can't do
01:18:12.000Social media doesn't like that because it doesn't translate in text the way it translates when you say it to someone a lot of times.
01:18:18.000Right, there will be legal challenges where judges will say, it's an interesting point, this may border on something, but if there's no, what, criminal indictment for a threat of violence or incitement or anything like that, then it's legal speech, isn't it?
01:18:29.000And I mean, maybe this allows them to delete the content, but it doesn't allow them to de-platform the account or something like that, right?
01:18:35.000Like maybe, you know, cause that then, I mean, that that's actually closer in terms of a question.
01:18:41.000I mean, it's like it again, it's, it's, it's a really difficult challenge to write a law that fits, but it's, I think it's doable.
01:18:47.000And I think, you know, there's a lot of tech people who are like heart, you know, loving the fact that, I mean, I've read a big tech blog or the shill blog and they were like, Haha, Rhonda Sanders' law got thrown down.
01:18:56.000And I'm like, I read the opinion and it kind of does lay out a path for a new law that would pass constitutional muster.
01:19:03.000Yeah, and I think the idea of speech is part of the problem.
01:19:06.000The bigger problem of why they have the ability to censor speech is they have way too much economic power.
01:19:12.000And these companies are too big, and they're too diversified.
01:19:15.000And your point is a good one, that breaking them up can be very tricky.
01:19:26.000With Leland Stanford and how we use the Sherman Antitrust Act to actually be able to democratize the use of railroads, which basically allowed us to have entry into the entire western, you know, part of the United States, where Leland Stanford, who Stanford University is named after, built all the railroads and became under huge scrutiny by the trust busters of Teddy Roosevelt's ilk and Howard Taft defended him.
01:19:47.000But by a different point is that there's a right way to do this and a wrong way to do this.
01:19:52.000The right way to do this would be closer The Microsoft case is tricky in the 90s.
01:19:58.000It slowed down Microsoft Internet Explorer.
01:20:00.000The bad way to do this would be... I think it's Bell?
01:20:11.000But I'm of the opinion that until you restrict, and that's a big word for a conservative to use, but I just don't care because it's bad for our country, the economic domination that these companies have.
01:20:21.000And so the best offensive move, in my opinion, is Ken Paxton's lawsuit out of Texas, the Google ad lawsuit.
01:20:28.000It's really, really well written, and it goes to show how these ads are actually disenfranchising certain small businesses, and they're giving preferential treatment to others.
01:20:38.000Was this like where they banned the pro-life ads?
01:20:54.000I remember when it was like a pro-life organization tried buying ads and they got told, you're violating our rules.
01:20:59.000It's like, this is a scary world where people are just Where big tech can basically say certain ideas have been removed from society at the whims of Mark Zuckerberg and only Mark Zuckerberg.
01:21:13.000And that's really the problem here, though, right?
01:21:17.000We wouldn't be complaining about this if it was a censor of like, oh, I own a platform in, you know, I don't know, Manhattan, New York.
01:21:25.000And like, I'm only going to allow transgenders to perform in my theater.
01:21:29.000We'd complain about it and write an article, be like, OK, that's just one theater, right?
01:21:33.000The point is that they have so much power they've been able to create through this kind of new world of being able, in my opinion, to have a very valuable company around not really delivering, in my opinion, a correlated meaningful service with the valuation of their company.
01:21:50.000And what I mean by that is that Facebook is selling you.
01:23:00.000It was like, your grill is filthy, the heating element is below the food so the fat is dripping into it, it's starting fires, then you're putting your dirt, your clean food, onto the dirty pile.
01:23:10.000And I was like, My grill has a heating element off to the side that pulls heat down it and then brings a smoky flavor from the from the Mesquite chips that I can add to it and It cooks my food very very quickly all around the same time while I'm outside in the sunshine with my friends Enjoying a nice day outside because you don't want to sit inside all the time
01:23:34.000So, my point is, when it comes to video games, we need to be outside.
01:23:38.000We gotta get that vitamin D from the sunlight.
01:23:40.000But it seems like more and more, it's like that Black Mirror episode where they all live in the cubes, where the walls were TVs, and they had avatars in the stands at the American Idol karaoke contests.
01:23:54.000It's very Huxleyan in the sense of just trying to pursue immediate pleasure and not virtue.
01:25:13.000And so in Brave New World, there's this famous incantation, right, that is repeated over and over again in people's sleep that says everybody belongs to everybody.
01:25:22.000And so in this dystopian future, you walk around this thing called the Soma, S-O-M-A, which is a pill that is non-addictive but gives you immediate and total gratified pleasure.
01:25:34.000And then the work, you go to work every day, the work is not hard, it's not arduous, it's just enough to make you feel like you did something even though you're doing nothing.
01:25:41.000And then during a very pre-planned hour, there is unrestricted group sex that happens every single night.
01:25:48.000And so the whole overarch, and I'm not going to spoil the end of the book, the whole idea is the death of the individual, of monogamy, and this idea of the ultimate value in Huxley's world is pleasure.
01:25:59.000Everything is about how you feel and pursuing a dopamine rush.
01:26:03.000He may have got some of the details wrong, but it's already happened.
01:26:07.000Right, and so where I think Huxley was not as clairvoyant as Orwell is I think Huxley underestimated the role of technology.
01:26:16.000Orwell, I think, was kind of creepily prophetic about telescreen and this idea of doublethink and newspeak and total and continual monitorance and the psychology of a tyrant.
01:26:28.000So if you kind of blend 84 and brave new world we're living through this a lot of ways and
01:26:33.000I think the tech companies need to be crushed because they are destroying our humanity
01:26:37.000and they're trying to make people pursue pleasure and not virtue. You know, we were talking
01:26:41.000to Ben Stewart, he was on the show recently and he was saying that it feels like some powerful
01:26:46.000entity is constructing itself through us.
01:26:48.000It's an interesting idea that it seems like everything we're doing, as you mentioned,
01:26:54.000It's almost like whether it's intentional or not, the actions of humanity today are dominoes being knocked over that will create some kind of artificial intelligence and then ultimately result in us being mindless drones or eventually just dying out.
01:27:09.000Yeah, and so this is this idea of the collectivization of society, right?
01:27:14.000We're already kind of succumbing to this of the three terms I hate the most, which is experts, extremism and public health, right?
01:27:22.000So those three things are always used as kind of conversation stoppers.
01:27:26.000And the biggest one, of course, is public health, not personal health, right?
01:28:01.000I'm a big Next Generation fan, and Jean-Luc Picard is the ultimate stoic in leadership.
01:28:06.000I have a whole shtick on this, we can explore it if you want.
01:28:09.000Jean-Luc Picard was all about duty and responsibility, and he never told a lie, and he was all about the broader mission.
01:28:16.000So Gene Roddenberry was the creator of the idea of Star Trek.
01:28:20.000Who always was trying to say that we need it like the ideal is a post-commercial society you didn't own anything
01:28:26.000there was no currency and Basically in the Federation right in the Federation right
01:28:32.000well on the particular mission, right?
01:28:34.000So the the idea of the Starship Enterprise actually earth let me even correct that on earth in the Star Trek
01:28:40.000narrative They had gotten rid of private property. They have gotten
01:28:42.000rid of commerce. I don't think that's true Okay, you could you could correct me. There's
01:28:47.000I think the issue is the writers wanted to create that ideal of a future with no property, but that broke the motive function of humanity, and so what ends up happening is you see depictions of beachfront properties, and you see in Deep Space Nine, for instance, Uh, uh, Latinum was heavily traded.
01:29:07.000I understand Deep Space Nine was working with different, uh, you know, different civilizations were coming and going.
01:29:13.000But even in, uh, the next generation, Federation credits are used to exchange between the Federation and other civilizations.
01:29:59.000The point I'm getting at, which is a contrarian point, is that in Gene Roddenberry, to try to create this idea of a futuristic utopia, he actually says, even if we get rid of all the needs, wants, and interests of the individual, You're still going to have tension and drama amongst fellow human beings, or human beings and other species.
01:30:16.000I love, too, the left likes to say Star Trek is communism.
01:30:35.000There's Admiral Picard in the new Picard series.
01:30:38.000There are choices people can make, places they can go.
01:30:41.000It's not that everything is necessarily free.
01:30:44.000It may be because different writers wrote different things and different episodes have different elements, but very much so, it is not communist.
01:32:02.000And you make a really good point, though, is that the three words that is most repeated by Picard would make him closer to Marcus Aurelius than to, you know, an egalitarian leader, which is, make it so.
01:32:12.000I mean, that is the most clear way that you can command anyone.
01:32:16.000Not like, hey, do you think this is a good idea?
01:33:22.000Picard gets the opportunity to go back and save his heart, because he said, if I was just not brash in my youth, I never would have lost my heart getting stabbed in a bar fight.
01:33:33.000And so he goes back, changes history, and then when he returns to the present, he's a lowly science officer, a low-ranking officer of some sort, and when he goes and he talks to Riker, he says, do I have what it takes to be leadership?
01:33:46.000Riker says, you've always been scared to take the risk necessary to do what needed to be done.
01:33:52.000So honestly, no, I don't think you'll ever make it.
01:33:57.000The point was, you had to earn something.
01:34:00.000You were told if you didn't work hard enough and do what you had to do, you wouldn't earn it and you weren't good enough.
01:34:05.000And that's what Michael Malice says is the big question that, I think Malice says this, what determines whether someone is on the right or the left?
01:36:17.000I mean, long after, there's a lot that happened.
01:36:19.000There was a big war, there was a period where authoritarian governments ruled by drugging their police officers into being high all the time.
01:37:17.000So, I didn't want to watch it because I was really worried.
01:37:19.000I was like, I know what they're going to do.
01:37:21.000And it actually was pretty good, and it's very different from The Next Generation, but it's basically fan service for the fans of TNG, where everybody makes an appearance.
01:37:28.000Not everybody, but Brent Spiner's in it, and you're like, how does he do that?
01:38:05.000So, they start making new, much much better synthetic beings.
01:38:10.000And that's basically the premise that, yes, a superior humanoid with synthetics that eats, drinks, and lives, but can calculate like data, is created, and it's a threat to biological existence.
01:38:59.000The Borg are biological, that incorporate mechanics, mechanical parts into their structure, and then eventually connected their brains on what I would consider to be like an advanced form of Twitter.
01:39:11.000Where all their thoughts are heard in rapid succession and then it forms a unifying collective mind.
01:39:17.000So this is an interesting question, which is that some would say yes.
01:39:21.000I mean, if you play out Darwin and Hegel, they would believe that human evolution is ever-progressing.
01:39:30.000That if you look at the historicist's view of the world, which is replicated in this narrative that you talked about, They think that human nature will get better and that eventually we will reach that ultimate level of the Superman.
01:39:41.000I reject that premise, obviously, categorically.
01:39:46.000I think that we are such minuscule, tiny pieces of this universe that the idea of humans would ascend to some, you know, Yeah, without resistance, like a tree without wind will fall over and die.
01:40:00.000You need resistance to grow, so I would imagine as we evolve and become stronger, we're gonna seek new resistance to continue to grow.
01:40:25.000Those who procreate the most are being rewarded by nature.
01:40:28.000But like some, because some people are building critical thinking skills, it seems like.
01:40:32.000Some people are learning empathy and gaining psychic power, for all I know.
01:40:36.000To understand evolution, you need to ask who are procreating the most and why, and then you can make predictions about what's going to happen in the next several generations.
01:40:46.000There is nothing to suggest that we are being forced to be smarter, stronger, and faster.
01:40:50.000What evolutionary pressure would result in that?
01:40:52.000Like, if a bunch of aliens came and started hunting and killing humans, the fastest, smartest, and strongest humans would survive the extinction event, have a bunch of babies, and the babies would be much stronger.
01:41:05.000We're gorging—well, I mean, actually, maybe it is.
01:41:07.000A lot of dumb people gorging on fast food and trash and not exercising and decaying in their homes and their lounge chairs or believing that because the earth is melting they're not going to have kids at all.
01:41:18.000So the one thing Mike Judge missed is that something we absolutely do see is that conservatives have more kids than liberals.
01:41:26.000And today, liberals are even less likely to have kids.
01:41:29.000So, one thing I've brought up in the past, Pew Research shows that Gen Z is slightly more conservative than Millennials, but only by a tiny, tiny amount, and only in some areas.
01:41:36.000Meaning, they're very much like Millennials, slightly more conservative.
01:41:40.000A lot of people on the right seem to think that means the right is winning the culture war.
01:41:44.000You're not winning the culture war, you're winning the breeding war.
01:41:47.000In the early 2000s, a report was done, several reports, showing that liberals on average were having about 1.7 kids, and conservatives were having 2.02 kids, which meant in 20 years, or in 18 years from that study, there would be a bunch of voting people and slightly more conservative than liberal.
01:42:05.000If that trend continues, the future absolutely will be religious conservative.
01:42:10.000Maybe not Christian, maybe it'll be Muslim, but Oh, that's assuming that conservative parents will have conservative children, but as we were talking about with Ben Stewart, technology kind of hijacks and leaps evolution.
01:42:21.000So, like, a child of a conservative can go on the internet and have their evolution shifted and become a new... It's not even just the internet.
01:42:28.000It's also our public schools, you know.
01:42:30.000To go back to the CRT discussion, just because we win this battle on CRT doesn't mean we aren't sending our children to the schools run by people who thought CRT was a wonderful idea.
01:42:41.000I don't think necessarily changes the equation.
01:42:44.000Because some conservative children can be indoctrinated and turn to the left, then they're still less likely to have kids after the fact.
01:42:50.000So, it will effectively have a pull factor on conservative children, but the end result is always going to be slightly more conservatives existing because they're having more kids.
01:42:58.000So you think it's the state of mind that is resulting in less children?
01:43:32.000Before the invention of the automobile, there was a great fear that as New York expanded and horses were used to move goods in and out, the city streets would be just covered in horse crap everywhere because, well, more city means more horses.
01:44:04.000They may claim to not be, but their worldview is inherently that we will never improve technology.
01:44:10.000And we must stop what we're doing right now to preserve existence as it is, or revert to some lesser state, you know, like, more attuned with, um... I don't want to say attuned with nature, because it's the... you will own nothing and you will be happy, right?
01:44:24.000They're very much like, climate change means we don't have these things.
01:44:28.000But my worldview is very optimistic in terms of our ability to tap into technologies that have always found ways to help save humanity and adapt.
01:44:38.000And I don't believe we've reached the apex of technology.
01:44:41.000You know, the famous patent officer or whatever his name was back in the 1899, he was like, everything that can be invented has been invented.
01:44:47.000He said that because he was getting such stupid patents.
01:45:03.000Some dude at CERN runs out and throws the papers in the air and discovers anti-gravity.
01:45:07.000Then all of a sudden we're colonizing every single planet we can find.
01:45:11.000I don't know how long it was between electricity and the atomic bomb, but it really was not that long a period of time.
01:45:16.000Bro, bro, bro, the discovery of the invention of flight and going to the moon was a few decades
01:45:22.000You're more optimistic than I am. I I think the left is divided into categories
01:45:28.000The type of leftist you're describing is not the leftist in charge.
01:45:32.000The person in charge right now is embracing technological innovation and giving more and more power to a smaller group of scientists that know what they're doing.
01:47:10.000I think the danger of this new type of technology that we're coming into is I don't think we quite can understand what it does to the human being.
01:47:19.000I, uh, we, we, we just, we mentioned it with Ben Stewart.
01:47:22.000It is a bunch of humans who don't realize they're creating some powerful new kind of entity and we're mindlessly building it.
01:47:28.000We're teaching it the reCAPTCHA stuff.
01:47:30.000That's all just programming it to see and think.
01:49:33.000We just did a whole podcast on this if anyone wants to check it out.
01:49:36.000I think we're already living through a secession movement.
01:49:38.000I call it slow motion secession where people are already disconnecting themselves from the land or the region that they were in and they're not looking back.
01:49:47.000They have smashed the rearview mirror and they say to New York City, San Francisco, LA, Chicago, you don't represent me anymore.
01:49:53.000And we haven't seen this level of movement of people, this dramatic, in a very long time.
01:49:59.000It reminds me of the 1850s where people feel as if they're not living in the same country as their fellow countrymen.
01:50:05.000I feel that way when I go to New York City or I go to Los Angeles.
01:50:10.000This is something that, again, a lot of the journalists, they get way too hyper-aggressive when you ever mention the secession word.
01:50:16.000When in reality, it's the other side, I think, that's seceding from us.
01:50:20.000They're the ones that are saying that our documents are invalid, the Constitution has no sort of implication, that our flag is terrible and racist.
01:50:28.000And so, no, I would not advocate for it.
01:50:31.000There is no good way to pull that off.
01:50:33.000But I think we're already living through that in almost slow motion.
01:50:37.000Yeah, I mean, you know, we're not, the federal government of 2021 is very different than the federal government of 1860 in terms of its size and its power and its ability.
01:50:45.000I mean, we forget that the southern states literally walked into federal armories and just took all the guns.
01:50:49.000That's not something that would be able to, yeah, you could do now.
01:50:53.000That said, yeah, I think, I mean, you look at something like California decided to stop funding state travel to like 17 states or something like that.
01:51:01.000They're definitely more inclined to it.
01:51:02.000I always joke about how we just need to strip California of its electoral votes, and that would solve most of our problems.
01:52:02.000The bigger problem here, the libertarians will love this, even though I'm libertarian on almost nothing, is all the cheap dollars floating around.
01:52:10.000It only hyper-incentivizes these massive firms to do merger and acquisitions that they otherwise would not be compelled to do.
01:52:16.000It's almost like they're like fallacious acquisitions because it's like funny money.
01:52:24.000And so it's because of our relaxed interest rate policies and the creation of dollar bills that have no such backing and value that basically these funds are then entrusted with these pension fund dollars.
01:52:36.000And they say, well, what do we do with this?
01:52:38.000I don't think that they should have the sort of magnanimous type power that they have.
01:52:42.000You know, I could see, as we revolted from the British for taxation without representation, that this mass printing of money could be considered a form of taxation, and that it's not representing the people.
01:52:59.000I mean, this is the one thing I would agree with Luke on, which is the monetary policy of our country is rigged specifically for the financial ruling class and to destroy middle-income Americans.
01:53:48.000Aren't they like Northeast Indian and up in the Himalayas and the Chinese were eradicating them or something in the like 20 years they've been doing it?
01:53:56.000Yeah, they don't they want to eliminate any ideologies opposed or at odds with the CCP.
01:55:49.000I would say continue to have empathy for your brother and listen to him, and he'll continue to have respect for you, and then you'll be able to work things out.
01:56:35.000They collect information and then sell it to wealthy individuals who can then make moves in the stock market and international investments before anyone realizes what's happening.
01:56:43.000Do you consider what Snowden did journalism?
01:57:23.000Some of it got leaked somehow, I'm not sure.
01:57:26.000Yeah, I remember that there was a huge data dump in addition to the story.
01:57:29.000There was, uh, I think for the most part all of the documents haven't even been released as of yet, but I will say there was one instance where there was a huge, uh, one of the documents wasn't redacted properly, and, uh, this created serious problems and concerns, and Snowden didn't review the documents.
01:57:45.000He just trusted that the journalists would do the right thing, I guess, and that's leaking, not whistleblowing.
01:57:50.000As years have gone by, I've grown in admiration for the broader point he made.
01:58:38.000Boy, if people are never allowed to clarify.
01:58:41.000You know, it's been interesting throughout the last couple years really diving deep into Russell Kirk and what it means to be a conservative.
01:58:50.000And in the issue of immigration in particular, and I've called for a total moratorium of immigration into the country.
01:58:58.000The predominant orthodoxy in conservative circles in like 13, 14, 15, and 16 was more people the better, like kind of this neoliberal belief.
01:59:10.000And obviously in the last 18 months, we've seen the extremes of mass immigration through economic terms and cultural terms.
01:59:20.000I also think it's a very important thing that we can say that people in public life can grow on certain issues and then say, hey, you know, I've actually dived deeper into certain literature and I've seen the kind of consequences and ramifications of this, and I think that there is this, like, inflexibility amongst some critics where they're like, well, Charlie, you held a belief that was different.
02:00:16.000And you should be able to admit when you say something that was stupid, and like, I didn't probably think that through as much as I should have.
02:00:21.000You thought green card, if someone gets their degree, like a foreigner gets their degree in the United States, that they should not get a green card?
02:00:27.000No, so it was kind of this belief, it was an overly idealistic belief that mass immigration is nothing but a net positive for the country, right?
02:00:38.000And it was this idea that we're going to be able to win the argument through American prosperity and economic growth at all costs, right?
02:00:46.000We're not fully being able to grasp and see the totality of, hey, what about an American college graduate that goes to Caltech and graduates with $60,000 in debt?
02:00:57.000Why should he be disenfranchised for a person from India who's willing to come do that job for half as much?
02:01:03.000And again, that quote is not an incorrect quote.
02:01:07.000It's taken a little bit out of context, but I'll own up to it because I think that's important.
02:01:11.000But in the totality of kind of the idea of immigration, we need to come from this perspective of what is immigration and is it good for your nation, right?
02:01:21.000And if it doesn't serve the betterment of our fellow countrymen, first and foremost, then we should reconsider our immigration policies altogether.
02:01:29.000I love the old video from Ben Shapiro where he says if the waters are rising you can just sell your home or whatever.
02:01:35.000I think it was a really long time ago.
02:01:37.000It was dumb, but then that H-Bomber guy made a really funny video where you see a wall and you hear grunting, and then he breaks through the wall with a sledgehammer and he's like, just one simple problem, Ben.
02:02:53.000It's extremely cost-effective, it's extremely cheaper to use, and you don't run into any situation where during a heatwave your AC can't handle it and it gets hot in your house no matter what you do.
02:03:02.000Nah, it runs that heat straight underground, baby.
02:04:04.000The Overton window will have moved so significantly.
02:04:07.000Yeah, I mean, look at, um, my- my opinions on, say, like, segregated schools and graduation ceremonies has never changed.
02:04:13.000In 2014, I made a video, I think it was 2014 on YouTube, maybe it was 2015, where I'm like, why are they doing separated graduation ceremonies for people on- based on race?
02:04:28.000Two years later, the media is calling me right-wing.
02:04:31.000It's interesting, I'm thinking about the pendulum swinging, you know, the Overton window, where the... If you're on the pendulum as it swings, then everything on the right's gonna get further to the right, further to the right.
02:04:39.000But if you're out of the system watching the pendulum swing back and forth, it becomes much more apparent what's going on.
02:04:46.000I think we have a libertarian critique here.
02:04:48.000Brocages over Hokages says, Will and Charlie are the reason I can't support conservatives.
02:04:53.000They support increasing power of the state, which they are ignorant that their enemies will use the law they made on them.
02:05:05.000Like, let's start, there's a what we'd call in debate a uniqueness problem here, right?
02:05:10.000Currently, liberals use the power of social media and work with it in a private-public partnership to censor us.
02:05:16.000And then the second answer is there's a sort of nihilism there, which is the idea that one can't draw up a law, or one can't rely on court's interpretations of things to work the way you want to.
02:05:25.000Like, I always hear this argument with big tech censorship.
02:05:27.000It's like, well, if you pass a law, then the liberals will just use that law against you.
02:05:31.000I'm like, well, no, they won't, because there's a First Amendment in play, and a pile of First Amendment cases that say the government's not allowed to use force to restrict speech.
02:05:40.000So if we pass a law that says, no, private companies have to be available for speech, they can't deplatform anyone, that doesn't suddenly reverse 50 years of First Amendment case law that says the government can't censor you.
02:05:54.000And I also think a couple things on this idea of libertarianism.
02:06:01.000I mean, we are lacking of a massive citizenry that has the capacity to self-govern with virtue.
02:06:07.000Which is always a characteristic of a small-r republican-style libertarian world, which is people's ability to have restraints on themselves.
02:06:54.000At least I have 10 amendments to the United States Constitution.
02:06:56.000That gives me some form of a fighting chance.
02:06:59.000When the governor of Menlo Park comes after me, I have no rights to redress or grievance due process.
02:07:09.000Gemcast says, Tim, you keep saying history is written by the victors, but isn't that no different than there's no truth but power?
02:07:15.000But is it true with online archives and decentralized clips on phones?
02:07:19.000The idea that there is no truth but power is kind of this... I would consider it to be a defeatist statement, but it's an idea where someone recognizes there's no point in trying to be honest if you can just beat someone in submission.
02:07:33.000History as written by the victors is very similar.
02:07:35.000If a war is won, they write the things about their ideology that they prefer.
02:07:43.000But if you are, say, a Cardassian gull, and you kidnap a Federation starship captain, and you show him 4 lights, but insist he say there are 5 lights, now, perhaps this one captain might eventually break and say there are 5 lights because he's being beaten in a submission.
02:08:01.000But you may actually find that a principled individual will stand up to any amount of torture to tell you the objective reality, there are four lights.
02:08:11.000And so if we can't get back to the very simple law of identity, then we're never going to be able to govern ourselves, which kind of goes back to the point I opened up this conversation with, which truly is the tension point between the two camps that want to dominate America.
02:08:25.000of whether or not you have objective capacity to have reason and standards and morals or is it all just a sliding scale of things that are constantly changing around you and kind of this mixed recipe of subjectivity.
02:08:39.000That's really what we're living through.
02:08:41.000All right, Joey says, is that Master Sword made of metal?
02:09:00.000We need to reforge an actual, like, steel or wooden... You heard him, if there are any metallurgists out there that want to create the Master Sword for Tim, Now's the time.
02:09:10.000Hayden says, in John Adams letter to his wife, Abigail, he mentioned that the odds didn't look good, but that they all believed God was on their side and they will win that July 4th will be, uh, uh, they will win that July 4th will be commented in pomp and circumstance and parade.
02:09:36.000Momo Mac McDowell says, Tim, you say you're not a conservative, but you want to conserve things like the Constitution, voter rights, and free speech, also the Second Amendment.
02:10:58.000Progressive taxes and higher taxes for wealthier elites.
02:11:03.000I will absolutely say, though, one of the biggest challenges is technological advancement, which makes a lot of these arguments moot.
02:11:09.000For instance, taxing the wealthy makes no sense at all when we have international fiat-based economies and cryptocurrencies where you can't even track their money anyway.
02:11:19.000So then it just becomes, we're not arguing about anything.
02:11:21.000Taxing the rich doesn't actually solve anything at this point for technological reasons, not for moral reasons.
02:11:26.000So in terms of my personal ideology, I don't like the idea of any millionaire or billionaire, left or right, taking over the public space, shoving people out.
02:11:44.000So that, that, that, that, my, my, my, I guess my main point is my, my worldview is very, very similar to where it was even 10 years ago, but I think you guys have changed.
02:11:53.000I'd actually, I mean, I'd agree with that.
02:11:54.000I think I'm a very different thinker than I was 10 years ago.
02:12:08.000Well, I think there was a libertarian streak of kind of like, oh, let people do what they want to do, where I think now I'm much more about that if we don't have order and if we do not have some form of an agreed-upon way to proceed as human beings, then you're not just going to have social chaos, you'll have economic chaos and cultural chaos that will ensue.
02:12:34.000So I think if we were to break down, and liberal and conservative typically mean left or right or tribal.
02:12:43.000I've always viewed myself as a social liberal, where there's a belief that government plays a role in certain... What's the right way to put it?
02:12:54.000I like the idea of welfare, to a certain degree.
02:12:58.000The problems I have with these are that when these systems are put in place and exploited by, say, the Democrats, They don't ever fix or resolve them or actually create programs that should help and resolve the issue.
02:13:09.000They create programs that create sustainable power bases for themselves.
02:13:12.000To put it simply, if your society has an ailment, there's a way the public can come together and implement some kind of collective good or social program.
02:13:20.000The left, in its current iteration, tends to just slap more and more Band-Aids over the wound so it festers and gets worse.
02:13:26.000And then you end up with bloated, broken programs that create more homelessness, more problems.
02:14:05.000It would be like if one corporation had all the money, it would be like, use the government to go to that corporation and take all that money back.
02:14:13.000I think what we're getting at though is the ends, right?
02:14:16.000Which is that the reason these terms mean less and less is all of us kind of want the same end point.
02:14:22.000Whereas the opposition, they want a different endpoint.
02:14:25.000I think everyone around this table would love to see flourishing families and an increased birth rate and less social ailments.
02:14:32.000And we're willing to explore unique and non-ideological ideas to get there.
02:14:36.000I just think, and it's a point I made in a video earlier, there's an article about young Republicans who are in favor of having a climate change caucus.
02:14:47.000I mean, conservatives 10 years ago were like, climate change is bunk nonsense.
02:14:52.00010 years ago, the conservatives were saying no gay marriage.
02:14:55.000So perhaps you could call me conservative today, but it's only because the right is moving left.
02:15:01.000Yeah, again, to take your definitions, there's some truth.
02:15:04.000I would say, though, that the conservative movement, though, is more pro-life and more firm about their pro-life position than at any other time, and is getting less indifferent towards Drag Queen Story Hour, for example.
02:15:33.000My growing up, pro-choice, the definition of pro-choice in my household is only a little bit to the left of the definition of pro-life for most conservatives.
02:15:56.000My family would always say, you know, it's a horrible thing, but sometimes you just don't want the state involved, and people have to make hard, difficult choices, so we need to make sure there's some leeway.
02:16:05.000Today it's, you know, Lena Dunham saying she wished she had an abortion.
02:16:08.000It's Michelle Wolf or whatever, Fox, what's her name?
02:16:11.000Coming out and yelling everyone get abortions, and I'm like, Yep.
02:16:13.000Phil Labonte made a great point saying if there's one, I'm paraphrasing,
02:16:17.000said if there's one issue that's gonna make all these libertarians pro-life,
02:16:21.000it's these leftists and their pro-abortion stance.
02:16:32.000I see a Mr. Will Chamberlain sitting right there and we agree on most things with some, you know, certain ideological differences that we mostly shrug and say, well, I disagree.
02:16:41.000I look to my left and I squint a little bit and I see the Democrats and they're like burning down buildings and I'm like, what are they doing?
02:16:49.000So who am I supposed to stand next to?
02:16:51.000This is a big issue that I think resulted in a lot of people supporting Trump who the Democrats are deplorable.
02:17:04.000You get people like the intellectual dark web.
02:17:06.000Most importantly though, I think the biggest issues facing us in the culture war are deep, deep questions about authoritarianism, and the establishment, and the manipulation of currencies, and the people, and populism versus elitism.
02:17:20.000Which means that you will find tons of people being either establishment or anti-establishment.
02:17:25.000So I love watching the establishment left. They're so pro-corporate, they're so pro-government, they're so pro-FBI.
02:17:52.000There's a great meme where it's from Occupy Wall Street where they're down with Big Pharma and they reject the pharmaceutical companies and now they're marching around with tattoos of which company they're supporting.
02:18:06.000Let's read a little bit more of these Super Jets, however.
02:18:08.000Oh, Michael Hiller says, awesome 4th of July segment.
02:19:42.000The Democrats that campaigned on, we're going to get you the healthcare, we're going to get you the kitchen table issues, we're not going to play this culture war garbage.
02:21:51.000We'll do a couple more because we're going a little late, but it's Friday and, you know, I don't want to... Justin Justin says the Triforce on that Master Sword looks wrong.
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02:23:58.000Really appreciate you guys hanging out on this Friday night.
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02:24:40.000You want to shout out anything, Charlie?
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