In this episode, we discuss whether or not Critical Race Theory is the biggest threat to America, and why the MMR vaccine mandate in New York City is a good or bad idea. We're joined by Charlie Kirk and Vosh to discuss.
00:00:00.000Is critical race theory the biggest threat to America, or is it at least a threat to
00:00:25.000Well, there's a lot of questions around that.
00:00:27.000Obviously, you guys know my position on this to a certain degree, but there's a lot of other issues we need to talk about.
00:00:32.000One of the biggest stories right now is that New York has imposed a—we'll call it a—I don't want to say limited, but it's a vaccine mandate.
00:00:41.000For indoor activities, entertainment performances, and Bill de Blasio said the goal here is to encourage people, mostly young people, to get the vaccine.
00:00:50.000That means if you want to go to the movie theaters, if you want to engage in normal activities like at bars, you have to have a vaccine passport.
00:00:58.000Now, Why do I bring up critical race theory?
00:01:00.000Well, for one, you know the title of this video.
00:01:01.000We're going to have a conversation, a political debate or discussion about this.
00:01:05.000But there is a question some people have brought up due to the low level of vaccination among the black community and how that will disproportionately affect people and whether or not this will be truly equitable.
00:01:15.000But today, the bigger thing we're doing is not just about the news.
00:01:18.000It's about a conversation with two prominent individuals in politics.
00:01:21.000We've got Charlie Kirk, who I'm sure most of you know.
00:01:24.000Do you want to just briefly introduce yourself?
00:02:08.000I'm going to be switching like a crazy person and hopefully tonight goes really well and we all learn something new.
00:02:12.000And before we jump in, head over to TimCast.com, become a member to get an ad-free experience and exclusive access to members-only segments of this show.
00:02:20.000And I guess, I wasn't initially planning on it, but I guess everyone's cool to do a member segment after the show and we'll find something fun to talk about.
00:02:27.000So, you know, we'll see how it plays out.
00:02:28.000So make sure you become a member, make sure you like this video, subscribe to this channel, share it with your friends.
00:02:32.000If you think this conversation is important, I'm sure there are many right-wing individuals like, get it!
00:03:22.000So I'm curious if either of you wants to jump in with your thoughts on mandates, what would happen if they came here, if you're for or against them?
00:03:29.000Look, there are elements of mandates that I can agree with.
00:03:31.000We've already set standards for other things like the MMR vaccine, very basic standard vaccines that we expect everyone get before they can go to school, travel, and I think for the most part that's worked.
00:03:41.000We've eradicated plagues from the world.
00:03:44.000With regards to COVID, since this is an ongoing pandemic, we need to focus on approaches that are effective and that don't ostracize or exacerbate tensions.
00:03:53.000With regard to the Australian situation, it's not something I'm extensively familiar with, but generally speaking, I don't think that cracking down on protests is going to be an effective way to incentivize people to get vaccinated.
00:04:02.000What's happening in New York might be, but my main issue with it is that I'm not entirely sure how they expect people to still have their vaccination card.
00:04:10.000I know that there's been some confusion from the beginning as to whether or not you should keep that.
00:04:14.000I know people have thrown theirs away.
00:04:17.000It just felt a little bit haphazardly planned from the forego, so that's unfortunate.
00:04:23.000Maybe they can find other ways to incentivize it, like for example in schools, where they have a direct access to government records where they wouldn't have to use those little cards, you know?
00:05:17.000This is trying to create a two-tiered system where if you don't make the proper medical decisions, you're not able to go to Broadway shows or go into restaurants even when the efficacy of this vaccine is questionable at best.
00:05:31.000We see that in Israel, an 85% vaccinated country that's about to lock down again.
00:05:35.000And most of the new cases are from vaccinated patients, not unvaccinated patients in Israel.
00:05:41.000So, sorry, you want to interject him, but yeah, obviously against mandates.
00:05:44.000And I think people should be able to make their own medical decisions.
00:05:48.000I think we actually have a, we actually have a story wrote on timcast.com that our view of the lockdowns is that it's alarmism because a new study from the public health of England found the Pfizer vaccine is 96% effective after two doses at staving off the Delta variant and AstraZeneca was 92%.
00:06:04.000I could probably agree it's alarmism, but it's enough of an alarm for the public health leaders to undermine the argument that the vaccine is a solution to what would possibly satisfy the public.
00:06:15.000I mean, I was against the lockdowns in the first place.
00:06:16.000Let me be very clear when there was a thousand deaths a day, not 334.
00:06:21.000First of all, it's experimental in the sense that there was an expedited process for its release, but there have been full and extensive studies taken on the safety and effectiveness of these vaccines.
00:06:29.000The reason why the FDA study hasn't been finished, the reason why it hasn't been fully vetted, isn't because they're looking for long-term health effects.
00:06:36.000It's because they're determining the extent to which it protects you over a long period of time.
00:06:41.000Ergo, the fact of the matter is, by all available data, this is undeniably much safer to get the vaccine.
00:06:49.000Wait, a couple things, because you said a few things there.
00:06:52.000There are some instances where areas have more people being infected if they're already vaccinated, but if you take a look at, like, this is like data mining.
00:06:59.000If you take a look at the broader statistics, especially here in America, the number of people who have gotten breakthrough cases is something like 0.003% of people who have been vaccinated.
00:07:13.000In spite of the fact that fewer and fewer people are remaining unvaccinated, the vaccinated stay relatively healthy and Not only do they get infected way less often, they also suffer far fewer severe symptoms.
00:07:25.000Their hospitalization rates have plummeted and their deaths are incredibly low compared to people who are unvaccinated.
00:07:31.000This is by all means an effective vaccine.
00:07:33.000What's your opinion of Johnson & Johnson, the FDA saying that it might cause a rare nerve disease?
00:07:39.000That's something that, first of all, when you take a look at that, you have to recognize that even if that was the case... Which the FDA says it is.
00:07:47.000Well, they're looking into it, of course.
00:08:08.000Now, even if that claim is the case, it would remain the fact that unless the extent of that potential nerve damage is just apocalyptically severe, that the effects of getting COVID would still be far, far worse than the potential side effects of that vaccine.
00:08:22.000However, if you were to say, let's say worst case, you know, Johnson & Johnson, it's not viable, that gets pulled, we see what the consequences are, that doesn't really speak against the greater viability of the vaccines.
00:08:32.000We're talking hundreds of millions of people who have either been protected against the vaccine in part, or if they get it, or sorry, against the virus, or if they get it, their effects, their symptoms are much, much, much more manageable.
00:08:45.000So I just want to just kind of just Play into the irony here that I'm the one criticizing the pharmaceutical companies and you're the ones that are you're the one defending I just think that's a I think it's delicious.
00:08:54.000Well, that's an extremely dishonest talking.
00:08:57.000Well, you're peddling the Pfizer vaccine.
00:08:59.000You're so effective Wait, I'm the one saying hold on maybe AstraZeneca Moderna Johnson and Johnson and Pfizer.
00:09:06.000This is let's let's let's let's talk about the points He's made and no, I'm just I was just enjoying the irony Well, the thing is, it's not really irony if you understand the issue at hand.
00:09:14.000See, my praise doesn't go to the pharmaceutical companies or their CEOs.
00:09:18.000It goes to the tireless workers who spend months and months and months developing these vaccines.
00:09:25.000Have I at any point praised the distribution or profiteering system behind Pfizer?
00:09:29.000vaccine mandates this is the workers or this is Pfizer CEO nobody's talking
00:09:34.000about who gets rich this is a it's not your whole like this is a toothless
00:09:38.000right you could try and go back and forth this is a toothless critique that
00:09:42.000you could apply to literally anything that you don't like everything in this
00:09:45.000country is manufactured to the profit of CEOs We don't mandate it.
00:09:49.000And so you can't go to restaurants if you don't get one of four major.
00:09:53.000I just want to say, if that's your criticism, that's one of many, then you should.
00:09:57.000So if that's the criticism you want to focus on, I'm in favor of nationalizing the pharmaceutical industry.
00:10:02.000I'm willing to take it that far, but whether or not that's on the table, and I can't just make that happen when we're talking strictly about the effectiveness of the vaccine, it seems so praise of the capitalist industry behind.
00:10:16.000Well, it's totally ironic, because I'm the one saying that they might be lying to us, and you're the one that's saying it's super effective.
00:10:27.000The only comment I'm making is as to the effectiveness of the vaccine.
00:10:28.000What do you have to say about VAERS, though?
00:10:29.000What do you have to say about the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System that says well over 7,000 people experience death after getting the vaccine?
00:10:48.000Yeah, VAERS is a government website that physicians or individuals can submit complaints or concerns after an adverse event report from a vaccine.
00:10:57.000Since you cannot win in court against a vaccine production company, then they go through some process where the government then can distribute some form of remedy if you had an adverse event reaction.
00:11:09.000And researchers like it because if you take a vaccine or you get some other procedure, any medical drug done, you can report the effects there and it can be a way of gathering sort of aggregate data concerning the effects of these potential treatments.
00:11:23.000The problem is researchers don't use this as a bulletproof way of determining the outcome or effect of anything because They're literally just unvetted online submissions that anybody can put in.
00:11:34.000So I ask you, because I want to know, how do you arrive at the conclusion that... How many people did you say applied?
00:11:39.000Well, VAERS' own data is 7,000 plus, and most of which, by the way... That anyone can submit?
00:11:44.000No, by the way, most of which are physicians submitted, just so you know.
00:13:17.000I would say that if you have a mass vaccination program, which gives out 330 million doses or so, and then people start saying, hey, I got the vaccine, then this happened.
00:13:26.000VAERS isn't here to say it is or isn't.
00:13:29.000They're here to say, can we find a pattern in this?
00:13:30.000And I think 7000 suggests there may be one at the very least.
00:13:34.000I'm not a scientist, so I can't stress that.
00:13:36.000I will also say, however, to Charlie, Guillain-Barre syndrome, which I'm probably pronouncing wrong.
00:13:50.000Well, so the issue I have is one of the things that Vaush brought up is that there's been, how many you mentioned, 100 million, 160 million?
00:14:02.000So, of course, you know, if you have something very different from any other vaccination we normally do because we're not having everyone do it all at once.
00:14:10.000Yeah, and so this is a mass inoculation thing.
00:14:12.000And so here's why the American system should answer this question easily.
00:14:17.000When you have any sort of uncertainty or disagreement, yield to rights.
00:14:56.000First of all, if we're speaking to legal rights, the Supreme Court found over a century ago that when it came to vaccinations, this was a special exemption from some people's rights to determine their medical history.
00:15:06.000I will agree with you that the courts are not on my side.
00:15:10.000Because, of course, when you choose not to take the vaccine, you contribute to the removal of others' freedoms.
00:15:16.000See, it's true, you do have a freedom to not or to take a vaccine, but I think other people should have the freedom to not grow up in a world ridden by plague.
00:15:24.000And with the way this disease, COVID, mutates with time, as all diseases do, inevitably, if it continues to circle the world long enough, and this is an international problem, not just an American one, New strains will develop, which will slowly ebb at the effectiveness of this set of vaccines.
00:15:47.000With all of that being said, just to speak to VARs.
00:15:49.000VARs is an incredibly effective system for locating and roughly attributing concerns related to the effects of drugs.
00:15:56.000The problem is that there are several elements to this disease that make it really difficult to pinpoint anything specific.
00:16:03.000The second, the two of which being A, Hundreds of millions of people vaccinated.
00:16:06.000That is a huge range to pull data from.
00:16:09.000And B, the, you know, propagandist fear campaign about an incredibly effective vaccine process that may lead people to misattribute the deaths that they experience to vaccines.
00:16:49.000I just want to make sure we weren't having like, you know, misunderstanding.
00:16:51.000No, I think that's more of a reasonable answer.
00:16:53.000I'm just curious just on the vaccine topic in general.
00:16:57.000Are you concerned by like Dr. Malone coming out who literally invented the mRNA vaccine and says that there's a dangerous spike protein involved and he encourages people to think twice before getting it?
00:17:58.000The process wasn't developed back during the MMR vaccine.
00:18:00.000Totally, but some of them are getting updated for the more mRNA-type technology, right?
00:18:04.000If he wasn't involved in the production of these modern vaccines, how could he possibly have any comment on any of the rigors or tests that were done before him?
00:18:09.000Because he invented this type of vaccine.
00:18:11.000I'm just saying, does that bother you?
00:18:12.000Do you think he's just like a fear propagandist?
00:18:14.000No, he may well have concerns, but those are concerns that I would rather have addressed by the scientific community rather than, with respect to you and myself, YouTubers.
00:18:50.000WHO like no I'm not hold on wait a name behind it so wait he's very excited and right yeah
00:18:55.000Let's know I just want to say it's not just about the WHO We are talking about a unified effort on the part of
00:19:00.000virtually every country on earth to get a hold of the vaccines that us
00:19:04.000Americans are privileged to have this isn't just some this isn't some like
00:19:07.000Pharmaceutical dr. Fowchee push that wasn't broadly supported by any of the relevant experts in the mRNA field
00:19:13.000Which is not huge because it's a very new development Internationally there is a demand for these vaccines. I
00:19:21.000wanted to add just based on what you had said I can pull up Reuters
00:19:24.000Their fact check is that vaccines are not, quote, cytotoxic.
00:19:28.000They go on to mention that Robert Malone, and they show the Brett Weinstein podcast, they show the Post, the FDA was alerted months ago that the spike protein in the COVID vaccines are cytotoxic, toxic to cells.
00:19:47.000Like you mentioned, you said, do you trust Fauci or Weinstein?
00:19:50.000I don't know if there is a fact-based argument if you have the doctors you trust and the doctors you trust or the organizations you trust.
00:19:57.000It's a clash of who you believe, to be honest.
00:19:58.000None of us have the credentials to just come up with these arguments on their own.
00:20:02.000There will always be bias in who we choose to believe.
00:20:04.000However, given the plurality of people seem to support the safety and the effectiveness of the vaccine and the fact that it doesn't take a virologist to notice that Over half a million Americans have died of COVID, more than the combined death tolls of every war since World War I combined, including the Second World War in Vietnam.
00:20:20.000Those are things that I don't need to be a virologist to see.
00:20:26.000One of the issues that's brought up frequently, especially on Twitter, is that many of these COVID deaths are died with COVID.
00:20:31.000It's brought up where people would say something like it tends to be people who are over 70 or things like that.
00:20:36.000I'm only bringing that up not to make the argument, but because you said, how would VAERS know if these are actually related to the vaccine?
00:20:46.000Like age, it causes a breakdown in other vital functions that then their death can be attributed to such.
00:20:52.000So, for example, of the many things that people die, it's not really COVID, it's just that COVID blanks their entire system internally and eventually something fails, something breaks, and they die.
00:21:02.000There were people claiming that there were deaths being spuriously attributed to COVID-19 very early on in this pandemic, but thankfully we know that's not the case because if you take a look at the excess mortality numbers, the number of people who should die every year in the United States, because there's a very normal pattern, you know, normally with this many people in this country, we see an excess starting when COVID started that almost perfectly graphs on to the rising death waves of COVID.
00:21:26.000I mean it perfectly tracks on to that.
00:21:28.000I just want to say for you, Charlie, I think, you know, the issue I see here is for me, it's I can't trust or distrust.
00:21:46.000But to believe that there's like a nefarious effort or anything like that, ultimately what it comes down to is, in my opinion, having a trusted medical professional that you can consult with.
00:21:55.000And I think there could be an argument that if you're over the age of 70, that this vaccine might be a really good idea for you.
00:22:01.000However, to mandate it for schools and for colleges, when these are highly complex medical decisions, that's where I'm going to push back against it.
00:22:33.000Well, hydroxychloroquine studies have found it largely ineffective.
00:22:37.000There was, I believe, a French study that stopped when people started dying of heart failure.
00:22:41.000I think the only reason the right dies in this hill is because Trump mentioned it.
00:22:44.000I don't think there'd be a push for it otherwise.
00:22:46.000The vaccines are the effective way of getting mass populations inoculated.
00:22:49.000And while it is true that most of the people who die are ancient, the fact remains that people experience long-term side effects from getting COVID even if they survive.
00:22:58.000I know people who are in their 30s, and you know, me, a blistering 27 year old myself, I'm not especially worried, but I've heard them talk about how much harder it is for them to climb up flights of stairs.
00:23:07.000I know that erectile dysfunction, fellas, is one of the listed potential side effects of getting COVID, even young, healthy, no other problems.
00:23:15.000It is true that death is most comorbid with age and pre-existing conditions, but still, And that's not even to speak of the COVID variants.
00:23:24.000I mean, right now you're on, what, Delta?
00:23:26.000But if it keeps cycling around the world, let it go for another year.
00:24:21.000Well, so, man, I think the real issue for the most part is just mandatory.
00:24:28.000Well, I just also have another question.
00:24:30.000Do you think that there might be any bad motives behind these four companies, AstraZeneca, Moderna, Pfizer, and Johnson & Johnson, considering they are big pharma?
00:24:41.000And they pursue profits, which generally, as a libertarian socialist, you're skeptical of.
00:24:45.000Do you think maybe they might have nefarious motives?
00:24:47.000Oh, their intentions are reprehensible.
00:24:49.000They have for many years made money off the backs of American deaths.
00:24:52.000The opioid crisis is almost entirely attributable to them.
00:24:56.000Yeah, I mean, no moral love for these companies.
00:24:59.000If this could be... And by the way, the mRNA process was developed through public funding.
00:25:02.000It was, you know, an effort invested in by the collective good, something I'm generally supportive of.
00:25:07.000When it comes to these companies themselves, and when I say, you know, go get your Pfizer vaccine, whatever, please do not mistake this or anything else that I say for an endorsement of the practices of these companies.
00:25:16.000It is only through cruel twist of fate and the economic system we live in that they are the ones put in a position...
00:25:23.000But it was the workers at those companies, not the CEOs who did the work.
00:25:26.000I'm just curious, does that ever make you stop short and say, maybe they're trying to massively inoculate us on a vaccine that might not be as effective to try to pursue profit, not well-being?
00:25:37.000Does that ever enter into your calculation?
00:25:41.000It's a consideration you should take about anything produced by any company that's run for profit, which is Everything, you know, basically every need in American society, need, is tempered by the knowledge that there are people out there who are paid very large salaries to sell it to you.
00:25:56.000This is the case for everything we do, everything we eat.
00:25:58.000Every time you run down Main Street, or in my case, I guess, you know, the boulevards in Los Angeles, you're seeing the protracted efforts of a billion dollar industry to make sure you want things they're selling.
00:26:16.000And there was probably a protected effort on the part of these companies to make sure they were the first, and they probably took every dirty advantage they could get.
00:26:22.000But with the data available, I have to still, as much as I would say, hey, I would prefer eating McDonald's food to starvation, I have to say this is probably still something we should be doing.
00:26:39.000I actually think this has been really constructive and not like that, you know, inflammatory.
00:26:44.000I think that deep down you have this kind of, you know, urge that I'm already there where maybe they want this thing to go on for another decade to go make another hundred billion dollars and maybe the cheap drug of hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin might work better than they might think.
00:27:19.000It could be used for the collective good, and I would unironically actually trust it more in the hands of our ineffective, bloated government.
00:27:25.000than I would the sociopaths who run it currently.
00:27:28.000So I'll wrap this up by saying always talk to your doctor.
00:27:33.000This is one of the biggest things, like YouTube is very strict on this especially, but I genuinely think this is the right answer.
00:27:37.000If you're watching this, don't assume anyone here is right or wrong.
00:27:41.000I mean, I'm sure there are people who think Charlie's made a bunch of good points and you have.
00:27:44.000Ultimately, it's down between you and your doctor.
00:27:46.000And I'll stress, you know, for whatever your opinion, Charlie, I understand.
00:27:51.000Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin haven't been approved by the FDA, and so that's just another... We're just asking questions whether it works or not.
00:27:57.000So that's why I think it's really important, because I think there are... I gotta be honest.
00:28:02.000In regards to Ivermectin, people have been eating horse paste that they sell.
00:28:06.000I looked up what the FDA says about it.
00:28:46.000So let's talk about the other big topic, Critical Race Theory.
00:28:50.000You know, that's the one that I had a terrible answer, absolutely, when you asked me about it.
00:28:56.000And it was because I think my approach to it was too surface-level cultural.
00:28:59.000So the last time we had Vaush on, when you asked me about it, I couldn't give you a good answer.
00:29:03.000And I think we can talk about what's happening in schools, the things they're teaching children, and I don't know if either of you has an opinion and wants to start off with... The floor is yours.
00:29:12.000There's the critical race theory that I know of, which is a highly esoteric, essentially elective class that you can take in some law schools that teaches you a variety of incredibly eclectic legal theories, some of which I like and some of which I think I disagree with.
00:29:26.000And then there's the critical race theory that people like Christopher Rufo have been trying to push.
00:29:29.000A sort of catch-all term to describe all anti-racism.
00:29:33.000We see these anti-CRT bills being put through street legislators and a lot of them don't even mention critical race theory.
00:29:39.000They mention stuff that's been boilerplate anti-racist theory for like two centuries.
00:29:45.000I think that academia is, to an extent, sacred.
00:29:48.000Of course, all the good things in our society now were born in the halls of academia.
00:29:51.000The Enlightenment, our democracy, the fair trial that we enjoy if we're arrested.
00:29:56.000These were things that were originally considered to be the crackpot initiatives of academics, and only through the respect of those ideas have we arrived at, well, what we have today.
00:30:04.000So, if there are problems within academia, I would have them solved in academia.
00:30:08.000Not through the big hand of government reaching in and censoring everyone who says something that disagrees with some political party.
00:30:14.000So, a point of clarification, you don't believe that critical race theory is in schools?
00:30:18.000I think that maybe there are ideas which overlap with critical race theory, but there's always going to be overlap between academic ideas.
00:30:25.000I mean, you know, I drank water, so did Hitler.
00:30:29.000I think you're coming at it in good faith, where you're technically correct here that the super academic way of defining critical race theory is not being taught to fourth graders.
00:30:41.000With that being said, it's almost like saying, you know, we're not teaching advanced geometry to fourth graders, but we are teaching them very basic math.
00:30:52.000We'll get them the Euclidean geometry.
00:30:54.000So the very basics of this are definitely in schools.
00:30:58.000And there's many examples of this, right?
00:30:59.000The National Education Association literally came out in their press release and said that they are going to push for, and their word was critical race theory, just so we're clear.
00:31:12.000That's not James Lindsay, who are good friends of mine.
00:31:14.000That's the National Education Association, right?
00:31:18.000And I think they might even be talking about something different than the Delgado theory of critical race theory, right?
00:31:24.000And so what I want to try to do here, Tim, is we can talk about critical race theory as an academic theory, or we could use a filler term like wokeism, which is more like racial justice, which I actually think would probably be, you know, we can call it racial justice and meet in the middle.
00:31:38.000I mean, I really feel like there are probably four digit number of people in America who are studied on actual critical race theory, not including myself.
00:31:48.000But I'm happy to talk about racial justice education and wokeism, which I think I think you guys actually agree in essence that the academic critical race theory is there's overlap with a component in schools but what we often hear is someone will say critical race theory is being taught to my kids and then someone will say cite one author of critical race theory that we've brought up in school and the issue is it's we refer to it as it's I believe it's called critical race praxis.
00:32:16.000So this is something different than critical race theory.
00:32:22.000I just think that discussion is so unhelpful when Joy Reid and Christopher Rufo are screaming at each other, and Joy Reid is saying like, it's not being taught anywhere, Christopher Rufo.
00:33:12.000What I will say, though, about to give credit to Christopher Ruffo is that this is all kind of downstream from the conversation that Marcuse and Delgado started.
00:33:22.000But just one thing, though, since we're operating under the blanket wokeism, which is a really broad term, let's talk about, like, specific ideas.
00:33:30.000Because I'm sure there are some of them that I can provide a good defense for, and some of them I might disagree with.
00:33:38.000I don't think they're explicitly harmful in the same way that traditional segregation is, but I also think that it incentivizes bad types of socialization, where the way that you get a reprieve from the faults of society is to find comfort in people of your own race.
00:33:53.000Maybe that incentivizes some bad stuff.
00:33:56.000In my university we had safe spaces, but you know what they were?
00:33:58.000They were like chilled, like, coffee break rooms behind, like, the... Where'd you go?
00:36:03.000You can put money into that community, but there's been research done on how long a dollar stays in a black neighborhood as opposed to a white neighborhood.
00:36:10.000And if a black neighborhood, all of the businesses are owned by, you know, corporate boards that are all majority white, eventually the money filters out and you get a very temporary boost in living situation.
00:36:20.000I'm a big fan of structural reparations, not based on race, but rather based on targeting neighborhoods that need it the most.
00:36:26.000Some of these neighborhoods are, like, white, and I passed through some of them on my way out from Ronald Reagan Airport.
00:36:31.000I can tell which parts of this country.
00:36:32.000You can see it in the bones of the neighborhood.
00:36:36.000And I think that a new, proper reparations project, a new deal, a new New Deal, even, would go a long way.
00:36:43.000Well, so you're saying not even based on race?
00:36:45.000I think that we should recognize that this is largely a racial project, because unfortunately poverty and race are really intertwined in this country.
00:36:53.000But in terms of applying it, I think that it would be much more healthy if we treated it like a collective effort to bring up the lowest sort of echelon of our economic So I want to ask you, Charlie, would you agree with a program that was in, in, in how do I describe this?
00:37:08.000The explained as reparations, but was not based on race, went to people based on class and neighborhood so that it could help Latinos and white people and Asians and everybody.
00:37:18.000First of all, I'm against reparations.
00:37:19.000I just don't like the word because it kind of implies this intergenerational type guilt or allowance that I kind of reject and I'm happy to build that out further.
00:37:29.000Do I agree that the question is mostly class?
00:37:33.000I think that Vaush is hitting on something and I think That you're saying that it's inherently racial.
00:37:40.000I really want to explore that with you because I think that's interesting.
00:37:42.000I think you're wrong, but I think that's interesting.
00:37:44.000Where I think the racial thing is actually being used to distract people like you and I from actually talking about what's really happening here, which is a small group of people getting a lot richer while normal people get poor.
00:37:55.000And I think the racial thing is being used as this distraction tool to throw smokescreen in the middle, while we're talking about something that we're never really going to have consensus on, when the true struggle right now is mainly economic.
00:38:08.000Well, I think that applying reparations along racial lines runs into a bunch of really tough issues.
00:38:22.000Maybe that would be the most direct interpretation of generational reparations.
00:38:25.000But in my mind, the reason why it's important to recognize the racial issue here is that the nature of class divides in this country is cut into racial policy prior to the Civil Rights Act.
00:38:38.000The redlining that took place, lines which still remain not in law but in practice, led to very distinct... I mean, sometimes, you know, one side of the highway is nice and the other side of the highway... I mean, it legitimately... Can I just jump in real quick?
00:39:22.000I'm very clear to say I'm not from Chicago.
00:39:24.000I grew up in Beverly Hills, which is close, though, to West Hollywood and Koreatown, and the lines are clear as day.
00:39:31.000The reason I say that, though, about the racial project, is that because explicit discrimination is no longer in the law, we've pretty much wiped that out, with the exception of some, I guess, edge cases.
00:39:43.000The project of systemic racism, or the existence of systemic racism, is something which is carried through class by inertia.
00:39:51.000It isn't something you can explicitly legislate along anymore.
00:39:53.000I mean, obviously, nobody's out there passing laws like, Black people can't do this.
00:39:58.000But instead, the consequences of slavery, and of second-class citizenship for Black people, left unaddressed, a wound left to fester, that unfortunately can't really heal itself, inertially, unless we do something specific.
00:40:12.000So the issue with that argument is that the more that we intervened in the black community, it actually had the opposite effect.
00:40:19.000And Thomas Sowell probably has done the best research and literature on this.
00:40:29.000He actually lived through this, right?
00:40:31.000He lived through the black renaissance in the 40s and the 50s, where redlining was a legitimate problem.
00:40:37.000So was yellow lining, by the way, against Italians and against Jews.
00:40:41.000Nowhere nearly as bad, but there were other degrees of discrimination based on ethnicity and cultural background.
00:40:47.000And the black community, especially, you know the area really well in the south of Chicago, right near the Chicago stockyards, the black community almost had this rallying cry where they were being discriminated against everywhere and they kind of collectivized their purchasing power and they saw their incomes increase actually at a higher rate than white Americans in the 40s and 50s and early 60s.
00:41:09.000You've heard this argument many times, and you probably disagree with it, but it's just true, is that the moment that we all of a sudden de-emphasized fathers being in the home and subsidized fatherlessness, we saw all these other trends increase.
00:41:24.000So, right before the Civil Rights Act passed, About 24% of black children were born without a father.
00:41:46.000It's not necessarily that America got more racist.
00:41:49.000It could be the cocaine thing, which is a common issue.
00:41:54.000It could be operations of all these things.
00:41:56.000But a 40-point increase, I would point to a culture of fatherlessness, really bad government-run public schools, and then subsidizing behavior that isn't good.
00:42:06.000So, there are a few things that I can agree with you on.
00:42:09.000First of all, having two people in your house to raise you is pretty much essential.
00:42:16.000While I don't believe in shaming single parents, even if their single parentedness is a product of bad decision making, it's still good.
00:42:24.000In this economy, one parent, honestly.
00:42:26.000But, with that being said, There has been research shown that the rate of black fatherlessness is somewhat over-exaggerated, in large part because that number only applies to married fathers, so husbands raising their children.
00:42:40.000It turns out when you account for unmarried black couples taking care of their kids, the numbers actually rise to those just, I think, just below white couples.
00:42:48.000I think there was an article on that, I don't know if I remember, saw it in Vice, but it tracks back to some really big study that was done back in 2016.
00:42:59.000For example, many welfare stipulations cut off with a shared income, which is only a few thousand dollars per year higher than the necessary cutoff for the single income.
00:43:11.000Meaning that if you're a single mom, You can apply for the welfare just fine, but then if you get married or otherwise file jointly, you go above the cap for welfare.
00:43:20.000This is a horribly designed program, undeniably, and it incentivizes bad destructive behavior.
00:43:25.000The best thing that we can do, we restructure the welfare system in this country.
00:43:34.000I don't think either of you benefit from it, I'm guessing.
00:43:37.000But we do collectively downstream from the increased economic potential of people who now have the money to afford daycare, proper childcare, get an education.
00:43:47.000In the long run, people in this country being richer enriches all of us.
00:43:53.000We find out what works and what doesn't, which welfare programs function, which don't, which types of economic revitalization function and which don't.
00:44:00.000I legitimately believe that if we apply this, This country has the bones to be just a permanent economic beacon on the hill, just like a shiny example to the rest of the world.
00:44:10.000The bigger issue with the racial thing is that when you put some of these factors in even to present data, it doesn't pan out on racial lines, right?
00:44:19.000And this is where I think you'll agree, because you just said two parents in the home is a good thing, which we totally agree on.
00:44:34.000But I will say that if you look at the data from the government, that a white child being raised by a single mother is less likely to succeed by 10 independently picked metrics than a black child being raised by a mother and a father.
00:44:49.000And so maybe it's less about the skin color and more about the removal of parents and specifically fathers in the homes.
00:44:57.000Now if you want to talk about a domestic Marshall Plan to go put fathers back in the home regardless of skin color, I will sign up for that in a second.
00:45:05.000With the right welfare, the right systems, I think people will Tend to their own families.
00:45:08.000But that would then all of a sudden de-emphasize what you said earlier, where it says it needs to be on racial lines.
00:45:13.000Where I say, no, no, it needs to be on nuclear family lines.
00:45:15.000Well, no, I think that the neighborhood revitalization should just be on like a sort of class assessment.
00:45:20.000I think that when we recognize this problem, though, there are so many trends when it comes to poverty that involve the discussion of race, you know?
00:45:50.000Let me just point out all these white guys sitting here having a debate over the black community, huh?
00:45:53.000I just think that there is a lot of economic inequality, a lot of it's tied to race, but we don't need to turn this into some weird blood quantum issue where we go tracking down every black American and holding them under a microscope to see whether they get benefits.
00:46:15.000Because this is one of the issues I see, right?
00:46:19.000You see these conversations around... I don't know how you describe it because it's a variety of things.
00:46:25.000Wokeism is typically a catch-all term for some kind of ideology that involves anti-racism, which involves critical race theory, critical race practice.
00:46:33.000And you're seeing in schools specific curriculums where they say to kids like, We had a book here.
00:46:39.000We had a book brought to us by one of these parents who's been going to these schools.
00:46:43.000And it was an anti-racist curriculum workbook where it asked children why they thought that black children felt bad about their skin color.
00:48:09.000Beloved figure in the minds of conservatives and liberals.
00:48:12.000So Ibram X. Kendi, and I'm paraphrasing, and you guys could pick up the quote, is that we need discrimination today because there was discrimination yesterday.
00:48:20.000That's the essence of the quote, right, Tim?
00:48:21.000Yeah, he said the only solution for past discrimination is present discrimination, and the only solution for present discrimination is future discrimination.
00:48:31.000I think it's misguided in large part because I don't believe... If there was some god who could just distribute all resources in a perfectly, you know, ordained way and did so at the snap of a finger, then maybe that would be a decent argument.
00:48:41.000In the real world, we have to go through politics, and any kind of discriminatory treatment under any circumstances, no matter how well-intentioned, is going to have adverse effects.
00:48:49.000So, with regard to what he said, there's a very charitable interpretation.
00:48:53.000And that charitable interpretation is, discriminatory practices in the past necessitate favorable practices today.
00:49:32.000Based on skin color, that there would be some sort of accommodation based just by the melanin content in your skin.
00:49:38.000Yeah, there is one thing I want to say though, and this is common in upper academia, and I know Ibram sometimes gets brought into non-academic discussions, which I don't consider myself an academic, so I'm including myself in that.
00:49:49.000But sometimes I think these are fun to discuss, these ideas.
00:49:53.000What I noticed, at least in some of the classes that I took, the higher end classes, you know, was that sometimes when you were presented ideas they were presented not to have you agree with them, but rather to incentivize the greatest discussion.
00:50:04.000For example, I wasn't an economist, but I did learn about Karl Marx.
00:50:08.000Now, not many professors are actual Marxists, unfortunately.
00:50:12.000So when Marx was brought up in that context, it wasn't like, here's what you need to know, here's what you should believe.
00:50:19.000It was more, here are some ideas, radical and agreeable, what do you think about them?
00:50:25.000And when I look at what Kendi has written, I think, I don't often agree with some of the more radical propositions, but I do enjoy the process.
00:50:33.000And I don't think that's something which should warrant the state intervening to cut out those discussions.
00:51:02.000But he was a very radical socialist in some regard, but he really hit it perfectly when he said that this was the ideal of the American system.
00:51:13.000Do you see any downsides to getting third graders caring about the color of people's skin all the time?
00:51:20.000Well, I think depending on their environment, they might already, whether they know it or not, in very implicit and subtle ways, we know from tests done, for example, on like little, little kids, like four-year-olds or whatever, that some elements of implicit racial bias already infect their thinking.
00:52:10.000Not saying that you should start to emphasize, organize what people look like, because therefore it means something that we're going to tell you.
00:52:19.000A great example is that this is the textbook definition of stereotyping, right?
00:52:24.000Is that if you see a black person, you don't know their history.
00:52:27.000You don't know if they're the son of a Nigerian billionaire, you don't know if they're an immigrant from Turks and Caicos, and you don't know if they're the ninth generation descendant of slaves, right?
00:52:36.000There's been two million blacks that have come to America legally through the immigration process since 1980.
00:52:42.000So this sort of hyper fixation on race, and I want to keep on getting back to this because I'm just curious, is do you think this is actually helpful when there actually might be stuff that 90% of the country agrees on?
00:52:54.000Do you think this actually might be a smokescreen tactic?
00:52:56.000Well, it really depends on what's being taught.
00:52:58.000So here are some things I obviously don't want taught.
00:53:01.000One group is better than another, of course, you know.
00:53:04.000Black people are like this, white people are like this.
00:53:08.000There are some schools that do that, and while I would look to see their curriculum mended, I don't, again, I just don't want to implicitly agree with like a state ban.
00:54:36.000In the first draft from Thomas Jefferson, that the crown had enslaved people who had done nothing to offend the crown, brought them to the states, and then were then offering them the freedom that was stolen from them to wage war against the colonists who had grievances.
00:54:56.000And he did it because they felt, and this is according to historians, that without, I think it was South Carolina and Georgia, they would not have been able to win the Revolutionary War.
00:55:04.000And so they had to remove that, hoping they would stay in.
00:55:07.000Now, the reality is, let me just, I'll just say one more point.
00:55:11.000They thought they were going to lose anyway.
00:55:29.000But I want to make sure I stress, this issue for the start of the country was contentious.
00:55:35.000And ultimately led to violence, because from the beginning, as Charlie pointed out, most of the states had already abolished this, so it was like people were ready to fight from the beginning.
00:55:43.000Well, I just want to say to that, my understanding of the founding of America isn't as simplistic as the founding fathers were evil because X or Y. I recognize, of course, that there are incredible complexities to those issues.
00:55:57.000There are probably tons of things out there I don't even know that might change my opinion in the future.
00:56:01.000But, with that being said, while I recognize there were fine-bodied, hearted, and souled Americans who recognized slavery was a moral aberration from the get-go, one in every six Americans was owned.
00:56:14.000And while that may have been constraining to some of the states, it was still ultimately under the purview of the federal government to make decisions with regards to the legality and constitutionality of that.
00:56:24.000Now, some people, they get really defensive when this conversation comes up.
00:56:28.000I'm not saying you guys, but some people they do.
00:56:30.000And I think it's because they think I'm assigning some kind of moral worth to them now, or to the country now, or making some kind of broad prescriptive statement.
00:57:01.000That's a kind of racialization that I'm in favor of, because it doesn't encourage stereotyping, it doesn't encourage discrimination, it just encourages a base awareness of some serious problems.
00:57:27.000Yeah, is that it doesn't have that kind of nuance and complexity that you just presented, right?
00:57:33.000Where it's, let me just say this, is that part of the kind of archangel triumphant of the woke-ism coalition is Nicole Hannah-Jones, Robin D'Angelo, and Ibram X. Kendi.
00:57:42.000And Nicole Hannah-Jones in particular, right, the author of the 1619 Project, she heretically says that America was founded on slavery, right?
00:59:07.000Sorry, I didn't mean to miss out on the particulars there.
00:59:08.000The only point that I'm making is that depending on whose lineage you follow, depending on the narrative that you tell, this is a very postmodern idea.
00:59:15.000And I would like to consider myself charitable to postmodernism, the idea that there are many ways you can describe the human experience.
00:59:22.000Which I think we all believe to some extent.
00:59:24.000Depending on who you follow, you get very different ideas on what America is, when America was founded, not in a legal sense, but in a conceptual sense, and who today holds the birthrights to which they were entitled.
00:59:38.000And these conversations should be had.
00:59:40.000They're worthwhile conversations to have.
00:59:42.000I've seen some of the curriculums in these schools.
00:59:44.000I find some of them a little bit objectionable.
00:59:47.000But to be perfectly clear, I found school curriculums objectionable for ages.
00:59:51.000About half of Americans believe in the lost cause myth, the idea that the North started
00:59:54.000the Civil War and it was over like states' rights or whatever.
00:59:58.000That's believed by a large number of Americans.
01:00:01.000there are textbooks put out by Pearson in Texas that have narratives in them that are...
01:00:03.000There is some truth to that, by the way.
01:00:53.000And so let me tell you why people like myself are pushing for the bans of the 1619 project, is that first of all, it's just not true.
01:01:01.000It is not even charitably, in the most charitable reading, to use a word that you used, even remotely fair to the ethos or the founding of the country.
01:01:11.000It doesn't go to original source documents.
01:01:32.000So is education where we're supposed to, for 3rd, 4th, and 5th, and 6th graders, open up every single bad idea that's ever been discovered and have kids choose?
01:01:40.000Or are we trying to lead them towards something?
01:01:59.000The narrative we've told about the founding of this country has for a long time been deeply whitewashed.
01:02:04.000We talk about the founding fathers like they're heroes, and there is heroism in their lives, no denying that.
01:02:10.000And we often gloss over many of the horrors of this country.
01:02:13.000There are things that we've done, for example, that we would use as an incentive to forever despise other countries that nobody's even thought about.
01:02:23.000One I read recently, for example, was that we did mass chemical bathings, and I believe it was sterilizations of Hispanic people at the beginning of the 20th century, moving up past the southern border, because there were like these militias forming in towns near the border, and they just did it because they had the de facto support of the local government as a way of discouraging their movement up.
01:02:43.000Now, the numbers involved in that are significant, and I feel like, while that's maybe not great for fourth graders, There could be more work done to talk about the faults with this country in addition to eulogizing its largely white leaders.
01:02:57.000The question is, what's the goal though, right?
01:02:59.000Is the goal to try to have young people graduate by the time of high school to be skeptical, apprehensive, and not very proud of the country?
01:03:06.000Or eventually tell a true and patriotic story where you have people graduating that are thankful and have gratitude?
01:03:13.000That's the purpose of education when it comes through.
01:03:15.000Gratitude is not the purpose of education.
01:03:18.000Well, I think gratitude's a moral necessity.
01:03:20.000No, you should be grateful for the people in your life, but I will never be grateful to the state.
01:03:26.000Are you not thankful that you live in America?
01:03:28.000I'm thankful of the things that make my life easier.
01:03:32.000I was born white to well-off parents, and today I enjoy many of the benefits of having really responsible and attentive parents.
01:03:38.000Are you thankful you have constitutional rights that are protected by government, given to you by God?
01:03:42.000But do you know how those constitutional rights came about?
01:03:44.000They were fought for by whiny bitches like me who were never satisfied with what they were already given.
01:03:48.000They were granted by God, protected in the Constitution in 1787.
01:03:51.000They were fought for by whiny, same as the 14th and 15th Amendments, everything that's come since, we fought for them and it is discontentedness that leads us to fight.
01:03:59.000Are you thankful for those people then?
01:04:20.000When it comes to this country, though, this is a political and economic bloc, and I have only one concern, and it's that the people in this country live the best lives possible.
01:04:28.000Also outside the country, but, you know, I live here.
01:04:53.000And I want to get people, I want to get kids interested in the flaws in this country because that teaches them to grow up and care about them so hard they fix them.
01:05:02.000This is a great piece of disagreement.
01:05:04.000We have clarity, not agreement, which is obviously what we want, where I think that we should try to be developing and graduating kids with strong character that want to appreciate and protect a country and to try to be active against forces that wish to deconstruct
01:05:52.000But, with all that being said, I have to wonder, is it not the prerogative, and I'm not assigning this to you, of tyrants to make sure that the children who graduate from their schools find no fault in the nations they're taught to love?
01:06:08.000See, I never said no fault, but you could be thankful for something, and you can have a holistic view of something, and understand that there were stumbles, and there were missteps, while also being pretty freaking proud of that something.
01:06:37.000Somebody commented, I think it was on Twitter, they said that when they went to school, they weren't taught about Black Wall Street or the Tulsa bombings and things like that.
01:06:45.000And that's proof or that shows that our schools are not teaching.
01:06:48.000And I was like, I was taught all those things.
01:06:50.000You know, we were taught about the Trail of Tears.
01:06:52.000We were taught about westward expansion.
01:06:54.000We were taught about the violation of treaties.
01:07:52.000Do you ever think that as an activist, as a progressive, a libertarian socialist, is
01:07:57.000there ever a point where the activism actually does much more harm than good and the preservation
01:08:03.000of what already exists actually should be desirable?
01:08:07.000I would say that's the case with black separatists.
01:08:10.000There are some people in this country, not all of them are black of course, but who believe that the racial problems between white and black Americans are irreparable, and that the best solution would be for black Americans to leave, or at the very least to form separate enclaves within this country.
01:08:23.000And that's nothing new, just so you know.
01:08:24.000Oh no, it's a very old... I don't think that's what Charlie asked.
01:08:28.000He asked you if there... Do you want to rephrase it?
01:09:24.000Income mobility here, which is the measure for how effectively this country manages its meritocratic systems, you know, is higher in some European countries than it is here.
01:09:33.000The idea remains valuable to me, but I can't help but think, maybe we could make it better.
01:09:37.000If making it better entails some highly destructive process that involves tearing down everything we've ever known and such, then I mean, eventually you have to do a risk-reward-benefit, right?
01:10:46.000Well the big problem that I have, but keep in mind, that's not wokeists running these things.
01:10:50.000What happens is this, and put pretty simply, the majority of Americans, broadly, are progressive on these issues.
01:10:57.000Support BLM, all these sort of broad cultural markers.
01:11:01.000So, corporations and other large entities think, we need to avoid a cancellation, we need to appeal to the business interests of this country, we need to do something to ingratiate ourselves to the majority opinion.
01:11:12.000So oftentimes, and they've done this for decades by the way, is they find some consultants, they pay them $300,000.
01:13:00.000I think these corporations have been infiltrated by highly motivated activists, which you've said the education system, the goal should be to create activists that have really bad ideas.
01:13:10.000and I think they're putting America on a trajectory that I think you are even concerned about.
01:13:16.000Because you said that there are some sacrosanct ideas, right? The sacrosanct ideas are general
01:13:22.000fair representation. Wokeism does not believe in that. Well, no, that's not true.
01:13:26.000I would say... I mean, I don't know what you mean by wokeism, but I think that there are plenty of progressives... Well, you defined it, which is that idea of judging people based on skin color, discrimination, now... I would say that what I've advocated for represents the super majority of progressive opinions, and what we're largely seeing is a couple of really bad examples being brought to the limelight because they're most objectionable.
01:13:46.000Sure, to be fair though, I mean, you might have these very, very, like, well-thought-out views of things.
01:13:52.000You could say, oh, that's indefensible, of course, I don't want to be unreasonable.
01:13:55.000But when you get Mark Milley coming out and talking about white rage as a blanket... Oh, I thought his speech was lovely.
01:14:00.000It reminded me of those old, like, Chinese philosopher generals.
01:14:04.000But you have people quitting the military over this stuff because they feel like they're... I've actually spoken with people who retired because they've been discriminated against on racial lines they don't like.
01:14:15.000One guy I met said he was planning a lifelong career in the military and immediately got out because they implemented these policies of white racial trainings.
01:14:22.000They were told that the symbols of America are no longer allowed to be displayed in private because they're extremists.
01:15:04.000Do you think that it should be... How's the right way to phrase this?
01:15:10.000If a corporation were to tell, say, white employees that they had inherent characteristics based on their race, or that they should undergo some kind of course or class based on their race, should businesses be allowed to do that?
01:15:26.000Um, I suppose legally if they want to.
01:15:29.000I can understand people being upset over it.
01:15:31.000I don't think there's anything wrong with racial sensitivity training and concept.
01:15:34.000The problem is that it's almost always done by this consultant class of like upper middle class, like wasps who are really, really intent on getting their own milquetoast veil of progressivism pushed down the throats of whoever they can have paid to listen to them.
01:15:47.000Um, if it's a good course, everyone should be able to hear it.
01:15:50.000Wouldn't that violate the Civil Rights Act though?
01:16:39.000And he said a lot of stuff about the responsibility for white people to not make amends, but to educate themselves on the experience of black suffering so that we no longer just integrate.
01:16:58.000To me, a movement which recognizes the racial discrimination, the systemic racism that exists, that there are problems we have yet to overcome.
01:17:11.000So first, the one thing I wanted to highlight, let me actually pull this up, is that net support, which is support versus opposition, before George Floyd died for Black Lives Matter in this country was 16% net support.
01:17:23.000As of today, according to Civics, it's 3%.
01:17:26.000That brings it all the way back to 2018, to August 16th.
01:17:31.000Now, one of the things I think is really important to note is the severe tribalism and hyperpolarization in this country.
01:17:36.000So if we look at support for Black Lives Matter among Democrats, 86%.
01:17:41.000Support or opposition for Black Lives Matter among Republicans, 86%.
01:17:51.000You take a look at the independents, though, people who don't align, and I would say, what is the date, around May 1st, there was an inversion, and now the majority of independents oppose Black Lives Matter 44% to 39%.
01:18:04.000That's not surprising to me, given that there's been very little in the way of optical... I'm sorry, you haven't spoken in a while.
01:19:12.000To take a working class individual who is accused of shoplifting before he's even been proven of guilt, lock him up for several months, he loses his job.
01:19:19.000However, what do we see in San Francisco?
01:19:56.000And what's more, there are other forms of criminality that only really fully express themselves in the types of neighborhoods that have a really strong mix of wealthy and poor.
01:20:38.000We haven't defunded the police anywhere.
01:20:41.000Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, they've all cut police budgets.
01:20:47.000260 departments, I think it was reported last year, had stripped their funding from the police.
01:20:50.000Sorry, when you said defund, I meant the anarchist vision of community policing.
01:20:54.000When it comes to police funds being stripped, there is a conversation to be had about the relationship between that and crime, but the crime increase seems to be all countrywide, so I don't know if I'd be leaning more towards that being a COVID thing and people being restless and angry and, I don't know, aggressive.
01:21:09.000The thing that I'm trying to say, though, is when I grew up in Beverly Hills, really, really safe, free from violent crime, I could walk half a mile, though, and the area between rich and poor were the areas where people had barred windows.
01:21:34.000Apparently, murder actually has a very low default recidivist rate, because usually it's done under a very specific set of heated conditions that don't actually speak to a person's character, which makes you wonder a lot about, like, moral worth and what really drives a person to do that sort of thing.
01:21:48.000I think it's something we should look at critically, though I don't have any really strong data-based arguments.
01:21:53.000The last thing I want to say, because it's the first point that you brought up, is racial responses to the criminal justice system.
01:21:59.000I'm actually going to triple down on this one, okay?
01:22:01.000Not only do I think that we should aggressively look at the ways our sentencing laws affect and discriminate between black and white people, and Hispanic and Asian, I think we should do the same between men and women.
01:22:13.000Because as much as black people are shafted by the criminal justice system, men are even more.
01:22:17.000If you take a look at the disproportionate rates of sentencing, relative levels of implicit bias in the jury, women get off with way more than men do.
01:22:27.000So I mean, maybe it's something we can all agree on.
01:23:06.000But I think that there's an implication in your argument that I want to challenge, which is that just because you're poor doesn't mean you commit crimes.
01:23:13.000I think that's an insult to poor people.
01:23:15.000And so I think that if you automatically assume that, now there are data trends to suggest that, but instead it should be the question of what are we trying to structurally do or through incentives to either punish the people that are committing crimes and lift people out of that current level.
01:24:16.000It's because we were tough on crime in the 80s, and we had a massive campaign against it, and we had the most peaceful decade in American history.
01:24:52.000What would be a crime and necessity today with the welfare state that we have?
01:24:56.000What would possibly be a crime and necessity?
01:24:59.000I know for, I can at least speak to personal experience, that I knew some people involved in, like they said, they would sometimes peddle drugs.
01:25:06.000And they did it because, while they may have been accounted for by the welfare state, their parents' medical bills weren't.
01:26:00.000It is always a choice, but what we're really talking about is the limits of determinism here.
01:26:03.000How much do we choose the things we do?
01:26:05.000You can make an argument that it's all... I mean, you're religious, of course, so you wouldn't have this argument, but... I wouldn't have anything close to this argument.
01:26:10.000From a secular perspective, you can make the argument that at the end of the day, the things we do are driven entirely by the chemical reactions in our brain, and therefore, everything that we do from start to finish is just a combination of random molecular patterns and blah blah.
01:26:23.000Obviously, I make a choice to get dressed every day.
01:26:25.000We know how this works in practice, but in practice, we are also the product of our environment.
01:26:30.000And the fact that, for example, having a single parent while growing up is a pretty strong criminal indicator is a suggestion that, I mean, is it an indicator of a person's inherent moral worth that they were born with a single parent?
01:26:43.000So that statistical difference has to be accounted for by the inevitable fact that environmental differences can lead to harsh outcomes.
01:26:51.000The question is, though, do you then create a set of lack of enforcement to say that we're actually not going to enforce looting, where you had An entire article in National Public Radio, not saying you believe this, that says the case for looting, right?
01:27:04.000San Francisco's basically employed this, $900 or less, they're not going to prosecute you, right?
01:27:08.000Videos of them stealing entire Walgreens, right?
01:27:53.000But the idea that in the welfare state that we have, with the private philanthropy kind of generosity we have, that shoplifting and arson and looting No, I've gotten stolen from in San Francisco before.
01:28:27.000Emil Durkheim, cool guy, dead now, thought that crime was sociologically useful because it shows you where the antagonisms are between people's wants and the state's desires.
01:28:38.000So crime takes place where there's an agitation between what people are being compelled to
01:28:42.000do by whatever their own behavior their desires and what the state will allow you to do.
01:28:47.000So for example during a food shortage you know we can take like Ireland during the potato
01:28:53.000famine there were to put it lightly quite a few cases of theft during that time because
01:28:59.000people needed food they would do anything for it.
01:29:01.000So the crime of theft in that instance becomes a sociological indicator of a social need
01:32:47.000Nobody wants the jobs, even when they do increase the salaries.
01:32:49.000So it's true, the flights are an issue.
01:32:51.000But here's what they don't tell you in the news briefs.
01:32:54.000So stock buybacks, something that many companies now do because of their decriminalization, The airline companies have spent an anomalous amount of their profits each year on stock buybacks to enrich their CEOs and shareholders rather than on hiring more pilots.
01:33:12.000It seems the issue here is this is a simple supply-demand issue.
01:33:17.000You see these news stories from time to time where it's like, I raised my wage to 15 an hour and people showed up and it's like, Yeah, that is how economics works.
01:33:25.000We had John Schnatter, Papa John on the show, and he told us a story about a pizzeria where they were paying $35 an hour to some of their pizza cooks or bakers because that was a line.
01:33:35.000He kept trying to find people, nobody would do it, he kept raising wages, finally he settled on $35 an hour.
01:33:39.000That means pizzas are gonna basically more than double because the wage they're paying before was like 15 and now they're over double what they were paying in labor.
01:33:47.000They have no choice but to charge substantially more for pizza.
01:33:49.000In the short term, within a month or so, that might have an impact on those pizza makers.
01:33:55.000But the ripple effect is going to slam into everybody.
01:33:58.000All of a sudden, the contractor can't afford to take his family out for dinner, he can't afford to buy the food he wants, because the base level costs are going to start going up.
01:34:05.000Then the landlords aren't going to be able to hire the maintenance crews to fix the buildings.
01:34:09.000The landlords are on fixed pricing, which they can't change, which then results in a brick wall, a collapse.
01:34:15.000I just want to say, what we're having right now is an unprecedented economic shock.
01:34:43.000But in this country, compared to maybe some of our equally developed contemporaries, work really sucks.
01:34:48.000The work culture, our rate of over-productivity, Americans more than any other developed country, by the way, we push our workers hard.
01:34:55.000And you have favorable employment numbers, but you don't have favorable Underemployment numbers.
01:35:01.000There are a lot of people who have jobs but they have like two to three part-time jobs.
01:35:05.000They don't get their schedule for the next month until like two weeks before the end of the current one.
01:35:09.000They're constantly worrying about whether or not they're gonna make their shifts line up to get enough hours to get the money they need to pay down their student debt along with their rent and everything.
01:35:17.000It sucks and it's untenable and we are in an era of unprecedented record profits for CEOs.
01:35:23.000So yes, I think the solution to this, and it'll be a rough one, that's for sure, is we should normalize higher wages.
01:35:29.000Maybe the solution to $15 an hour was never a federal mandate.
01:35:33.000Maybe it was the inevitable economic necessity of incentivizing workers.
01:35:39.000I will say that the lockdowns were way too harsh and intense.
01:35:42.000I will say there is a Fifth Amendment argument to be made, though, that if the government forces you to not work, then you should be able to get something in return.
01:35:49.000The government cannot take something from you constitutionally and not pay you for it.
01:35:53.000That's the eminent domain argument, right?
01:36:58.000Socialists tend to think that human beings are fundamentally positive, but I reject that.
01:37:02.000That's why I'm curious, because you see way too cynical for that.
01:37:04.000Well, the implicit suggestion to that, to me, is that socialists think their system would only work if everyone was nice, and I don't believe that.
01:37:11.000I think that the best economic systems will work when everyone is an absolute POS.
01:39:22.000No, he had the dialectic and we built on it, you know?
01:39:27.000I'd love to get into the Marx thing, because I'm super fascinated by it.
01:39:31.000No, well, I just want to say, you know, the theory, I mean, put simply, I guess, is that human society, the human project, it evolves as a product of antagonism, grinding antagonism between people in Marxian view.
01:40:08.000I just want to the project of humans moving forward.
01:40:11.000I think that antagonism fuels it, but in the best way, not antagonism, like war, but antagonism in the sense that we, we look at our ideas, our values, and we challenged.
01:40:19.000So I just want to say something we disagree on.
01:40:21.000I don't think human humanity is a project.
01:40:24.000Do you think we're headed towards something better than what we have today?
01:40:36.000See, this to me, this is the thing, and I'm not trying to patronize, conservatives have been shown to be more fearful on average, and I think if they thought that way it would be very warranted.
01:41:10.000You're like, I see all the news, I see all the arguments about climate change, and I'm like, I understand them.
01:41:14.000And then you get Obama buying beachfront property, you get the celebrities flying in airplanes, and I'm like, how am I supposed to trust any of these people?
01:41:54.000And to them, what I live in today would have been incomprehensible to them in every imaginable sense, every conceivable way.
01:42:01.000But their arguments for the permanence of society then would have been better than mine today, because they would have lived in a stable, feudal society for millennia.
01:42:12.000And today, I now am here using technology that would have been alien to humans 20 years ago.
01:42:18.000I think about, like, the culture revolution, the cultural revolution.
01:42:23.000I think about the revolution in Russia.
01:42:25.000And you mentioned that conservatives tend to be more fearful, and I think there's history that shows us things can go bad.
01:42:31.000You can have something that's good, not great, could probably be better, and then end up with an unchecked movement that results in millions dead.
01:42:40.00020 to 40 million, I think, in the cultural revolution.
01:43:35.000By the time you hit 12 parents, should the children just a god, by the way?
01:43:41.000Sorry, it always feels like everyone argues like this is the best it gets and any future steps would be treacherous, but then we always make that next step.
01:43:51.000I don't know if America is going to be around forever.
01:43:53.000We're a young country and countries far older than ours have fallen in the lifetime of America.
01:43:58.000So I can't look at what we have today or the people that I live with or the values that I believe in and assign to them a feeling of permanence, but I can say this.
01:44:06.000I fear stagnation and every country that has ever set itself upon stagnation has always died.
01:44:32.000It's devolved from where we had these interesting pieces of art to just regurgitated crap over and over again.
01:44:37.000Can I just take some exception with your argument?
01:44:39.000First of all, there is this kind of revisionist belief that somehow conservatives, in the traditional sense, were against some of those social movements, which is just not true.
01:44:48.000Now, I'm not saying you'd be a confederate, and I'm not even getting to the party switching thing, but there is a direct lineage between hyper-focusing on racial politics in the 1860s and the 1920s and some of the people on the American left that are just completely obsessed with American racial politics.
01:45:03.000It's equality versus hierarchy, right?
01:45:06.000Well, back then, the slave owners wouldn't have been like, I'm really obsessed with race or equality.
01:45:11.000You know, now, I mean, obsession with race can be pernicious in many ways, but I think there's a pretty big difference between being obsessed with the idea of racial equality and being obsessed with racial domination.
01:45:20.000I think it's equally as pernicious, just they don't have the power to implement it.
01:45:23.000But we kind of already did that whole discussion.
01:47:40.000And to me, the problem with this is that when you get down to it, this thought process, this mentality, it drives men to do terrible, terrible things.
01:47:47.000Because interpersonally, all of the chemical effects of empathy kick in.
01:47:53.000But you start bringing in concepts like the nation, the fatherland, and it becomes very easy to convince people to compel themselves towards courses that they would otherwise not.
01:49:38.000Well, I mean, I like consciousness, too.
01:49:39.000The only point that I'm getting at is when it comes to people's freedom and the ability for people to protect their freedom, this is what I care about.
01:49:57.000He wrote on freedom because he believed that society was a very complex, interlocking network of systems that in some ways liberated men and in other ways enslaved them.
01:50:27.000Just the greatest society is one where a man is born and there are as few things as possible preventing him from doing whatever he wants for the rest of his life.
01:51:08.000So where do you get those limits from?
01:51:09.000Well, obviously you would probably have to have a pretty complex interlocking legal system to determine what we agree upon is like a Reasonable limits we can place on people's behavior.
01:52:24.000I'm kind of interested what you think about.
01:52:25.000I think humans are inherently destructive by nature and that if you took a human and put them in a room with a bunch of small animals and plants over time, his hunger purely because of hunger, ultimately.
01:52:36.000He would destroy and consume all of those animals and all of those plants.
01:52:41.000And then if you put another human in there, one of those would eventually destroy and consume the other human.
01:52:45.000I do think that we are, um, maybe inherently expansionist.
01:52:50.000Um, I think that might be a defining trait of our species.
01:52:53.000It's the, I mean, we conquered the world and God willing, we survive a thousand years from now we'll conquer the stars and that's unique to us.
01:54:46.000And then afterwards, if we still have time permitting, I would like to do the member segment and then personally be more involved than I've been for the most part.
01:54:56.000Sorry, we've been... Well, no, that was kind of the point.
01:55:29.000I understand people's discomfort with abortion.
01:55:31.000I think that unfortunately it's a legal necessity as a byproduct of some very compelling personhood arguments I've heard in the past, which I would have to read up on again before reciting.
01:56:33.000I just I think that my my understanding of consciousness is more of an emergent property of experience more so than it is I would have to reread.
01:56:41.000It's been a while since I've read up on this.
01:57:15.000To me, that has to be a legal question because protection has to be orbited by an entity and it can't be.
01:57:20.000And for me, that would probably be at birth.
01:57:21.000I've heard people make convincing philosophical arguments that there are times after birth when you're not even a person, and I've heard people make convincing arguments for conception.
01:57:29.000But if you're talking about a legal entity, the birth thing seems to be the line that's the easiest to distinguish.
01:57:34.000And there are other legal concerns as well.
01:57:36.000But this is an issue that I think I'm... While I always support a pro-choice argument, the philosophy behind it is something I'm a little more...
01:57:44.000So, is it more on the size of the being, or the level of development of the being, or the environment of the being, or the degree of dependency?
01:57:54.000Which one do you think, out of those things, is the reason why you say birth?
01:57:58.000I think the degree of dependency is legally worthwhile, but for consciousness, I think it's more about it being an emergent property of experience.
01:58:52.000Camilla Mamani says, WTF, a libertarian socialist, is like a meat eater vegan.
01:58:59.000Um, libertarianism was actually a left-leaning ideology.
01:59:03.000It was co-opted in the early 20th centuries by capitalists, but actually before that, libertarianism was exclusively in the purview of socialists, and I believe what they believed.
01:59:13.000That freedom is the greatest human good, as long as it doesn't infringe upon others, and that the best way to achieve that freedom is through democracy.
01:59:19.000We have political democracy, flawed as it is.
01:59:21.000Economic democracy is something we should also strive for.
01:59:24.000I'll tell you this, left-libertarian quadrant is the hardest quadrant to be in.
01:59:34.000If you're a left-libertarian, which exists, you're basically saying, I like socialism, now I have to convince people that it's the right thing and they'll agree with me, and people just won't.
01:59:44.000I find left-libertarians less threatening to the American way of life.
01:59:57.000No, I just want to say, for what it's worth, there are some people who call themselves socialists who I actually think would agree probably more with you than with me.
02:00:04.000Like people who support China, for example.
02:00:08.000It's a cronyist state, is really what it is.
02:00:09.000Right, well, I mean, whatever you want to call it, it's certainly not what I want, you know?
02:00:12.000So there are people who defend that, and I can't help but think, like, okay, these are conservative, what would you call them, traditionalist social positions.
02:00:18.000Uh, and you defend, you know, a strong state with a strong common will towards the betterment of the state and a free market.
02:01:08.000But I think even something more fundamental that I was trying, I think we almost achieved it tonight, which is that we're about to tear this country apart.
02:01:15.000And I think dialogue is something that is so beautiful and is so complex and almost spiritual in nature that if we don't have dialogue with people that you fundamentally disagree with, Then there's really not a middle ground until you start ripping each other apart, and I'm really afraid of that.
02:01:32.000What's your, uh... Yeah, what's the biggest issue of 2022?
02:01:34.000I agree that the political rift is almost insurmountable seeming.
02:01:40.000The last time we had won this bad was pre-civil war and we didn't really fix it.
02:01:43.000We just had a civil war and people were still mad after so I hope that doesn't happen.
02:01:48.000I don't think we're going to have a civil war by the way.
02:01:50.000There are some people, I think that at the end of the day there's a big difference between the problems we're told to care about and the problems we're willing to fight about.
02:01:58.000And I'm not entirely sure if I know where those lines are but I know there's a difference.
02:02:03.000With regards to what I'd care about, for me it has to be climate change.
02:02:05.000I know a lot of people roll their eyes at this stuff, but, like, you can take a look at the polar ice caps, you can take a look at the weather disasters we've been having, increasing both in frequency and intensity.
02:02:14.000This isn't like a, like, look, think of it this way, okay?
02:02:17.000I believe in American industry, alright?
02:02:19.000It's a little too late for us to be first-comers, but if we really wanted to, we could subsidize the hell out of green energy.
02:02:28.000In 20 years, we'll be selling the rest of the world the energy they'll need to survive.
02:02:32.000You know what really breaks my heart is the video I made before the actual Green New Deal talking about how we needed a Green New Deal and then AOC's Green New Deal was like equity and college and healthcare and then the botched FAQ and I was like, I'm talking about why are we spending money on war when we could be researching green technologies and more efficient energy, thorium salt reactors, things like that, get fusion to ignite Instead, we get this, like, racial equity garbage bill.
02:02:59.000This is- I had this- I- I- Well, I- I do like the Reno Deal.
02:03:03.000Um, but I had this problem, too, with that Teachers Union Board, the one that affirmed CRT, said they're gonna spread- The National Education Association.
02:03:37.000We should have a class, a philosophy class where you learn about critical race theory, teaching it in practice to children is a different idea.
02:03:44.000So I actually, in response to my absolute failure in giving you the adequate response in our last conversation, did pull up Critical Race Theory by Kimberly Crenshaw and actually read what she was talking about.
02:03:54.000And I think the idea of the oppressed versus oppressor in race is a horrible thing when we're trying to get away from that.
02:04:00.000And I had a conversation with an actual racist recently.
02:04:03.000And the ideas to me are absolutely nonsensical to base things on race.
02:04:07.000Coming from an actual racist who was advocating for the same things in that book, I was like, so you're happy with this stuff?
02:04:13.000Like, well, no, because the wrong side's in charge.
02:04:15.000And then I had to explain to them, like, I do not see the world the way you do.
02:04:18.000And he says, well, that's the trouble with race mixing.
02:04:20.000And that's, no, but that's exactly, this is what I see when I talk to, when I talk to people who are in favor of critical race theories, core ideology, and white nationalists, they tell me the same garbage in different ways.
02:04:31.000I have always been a firm supporter of the idea that the ideas should be what's criticized, not like the people who make them.
02:04:37.000Sometimes, for example, people will make fun of me because I talk on class issues and I'm from Beverly Hills and I accept the jibing.
02:04:54.000The only thing I wanted to say, because I have to move back like six points here, is
02:04:56.000that with regards to the teachers board you spoke on and the Green New Deal, I sometimes
02:05:03.000feel like the left is a little bit bad when it comes to mixing all their causes.
02:05:07.000If they, speaking of separatism, if they kept things a little bit more stringent, a little
02:05:11.000more focused, maybe they could get people to agree on some of it.
02:05:13.000But if every push for climate change is also every other progressive note, and every push for racial equality is every other progressive note, it feels like it's like an all-or-nothing package, and I think that can put some people off.
02:05:25.000I wanted to, uh, just clarify quickly, uh, and to inject my, uh, idpol, as you mentioned, you know, Candace Owens would do it, I would, and a lot of people are always mentioning, you know, Tim Poole mentions he's mixed race, and I'm like, maybe that's why you'll understand when people are writing, like, whiteness this, and people of color that, I'm like, I don't, I don't exist in that world, because I've been discriminated against by, by all of these people.
02:05:44.000And when that person said to me, you know, the perils of race mixing, he's talking about me personally, saying, I don't understand the tribalist worldview of racialists and identitarians, because I've never experienced what it means to be in a racial tribe.
02:05:57.000And that's why I love the classical liberal view of opposition to racism, judging people based on the content of their character, not the color of their skin.
02:06:06.000Because I see this world that's being built critical of whiteness, that includes me, but then it's always the negative.
02:06:13.000Every experience I've ever had, be it from white nationalists or from critical race theorists, is that you are bad for whatever reason.
02:06:19.000I do not want to live in a world where race is the predetermined policymaker or factor on these things.
02:06:27.000for the progressives to come out right now and claim civil rights and say we did all these things and then tell me I now face a detriment.
02:06:33.000I'm like, you know what man, my grandparents, civil rights activists, race mixers, my actual parents also mix in races and stuff and I'm like I have to, I can now look at the progressives who are putting a detriment on my life and insulting me no matter what I do and the white nationalists who vandalized my home as a child and it's the world that you're taking credit for that you're trying now to put a detriment For people like me.
02:06:57.000It could be a matter of perception as well.
02:06:59.000I've read a lot of academic critiques of whiteness, which isn't white people.
02:07:34.000When I read stuff like that, it's interesting stuff, you know.
02:07:37.000I don't think of this, all men are bad, all masculinity is bad.
02:07:40.000It's more of a salient critique of certain cultural trends.
02:07:42.000Now, the problem that I have is essentialism.
02:07:45.000Some people will take this, on both the left and the right, and they'll think of it as an individual critique, which it should never be used as.
02:07:52.000If I were to say something like, imagine I'm reading MLK back in 1953, you know?
02:07:58.000MLK had some things to say about white people back during his era.
02:08:01.000He would say that, you know, the whites of this era are unconcerned with the plight of black people, except he didn't say black people.
02:08:07.000And this is a non-essentialist critique.
02:08:09.000He didn't believe in racial essentialism.
02:08:11.000He wouldn't go up to an individual white person and judge them negatively for that.
02:08:14.000But he understood that as a cultural trend, this is indeed a pattern he recognized.
02:08:19.000Well, massive group stereotyping that's been done by every civil rights movement to have ever existed.
02:08:25.000Maybe the issue isn't the stereotyping so much as the way it's being applied and used.
02:08:30.000If the stereotyping is, I notice there's a big difference in abolitionist thoughts between white and black people in Southern America in 1852.
02:08:40.000Maybe that's the kind of stereotyping that can be used for good.
02:08:42.000Also, stereotyping by definition is assuming characteristics of an individual because of their part of a group.
02:08:48.000Close to what MLK was saying when he said white liberals.
02:08:51.000You wouldn't apply it to an individual, though.
02:08:52.000I mean, I've made comments about groups, people who play League of Legends.
02:09:35.000The climate change thing is an issue that will affect us all, though.
02:09:37.000The big one's going to be climate refugees.
02:09:39.000There are a lot of low-lying coastal communities that are going to be inhospitable to life in about 40 years, and they're going to move out into populated areas, and there's going to be border conflicts and war.
02:10:12.000Nasho Nabo says, Vosh is a black person who grew up in majority white areas.
02:10:16.000Those conversations are very demoralizing to be a part of.
02:10:19.000I don't doubt your intentions, but it's best to speak to people affected by your ideas before trying to implement them as our white savior.
02:10:26.000I don't appreciate the white savior critique because that's just the opposite end of idpol, isn't it?
02:10:31.000Saying that I'm less inclined to talk about these issues because I'm white.
02:11:01.000I have to balance that concern with the hope that in the future people become more accepting of these issues.
02:11:09.000A good example of that would be gender stuff, for example.
02:11:12.000If you look at it generationally, from boomers to Gen Z, Gen Z people are like 30 times as likely to know a person who identifies as trans or non-binary or whatever.
02:11:22.000And for that reason, conversations on those subjects have become significantly easier just because people have been exposed to the concept.
02:12:08.000So here's an interesting and kind of specific question.
02:12:13.000Joshua Alley asks, should courts decide cases based on rule of law and precedence
02:12:18.000or decide each case based entirely on rationality and morality?
02:12:24.000No, go ahead. Yeah, it needs to be a balance.
02:12:27.000Precedence definitely matters, especially in the American system.
02:12:31.000And the idea of the whole third branch of government really kind of came into question with Marbury versus Madison, with the first Supreme Court Justice of the United States, John Jay, I believe, who was one of the co-authors of the Federalist Papers.
02:12:44.000Precedent is important, but it's not everything.
02:12:46.000And this is a super important thing that conservatives need to talk more about, which I think you would agree with, Vaush, is that precedents can be really bad.
02:12:57.000Supreme Court justices, two Democrats, that said black people were not people.
02:13:02.000And that precedent was in law, basically, for many decades until it was eventually reversed, largely because of the Brown v. Board of Education.
02:13:10.000But precedent also is helpful so that you don't turn the courts into another legislative branch, right?
02:13:17.000So the courts are supposed to be very unique and they're supposed to be deliberative, process-oriented, say no to more cases than they say yes to.
02:13:25.000And so the question is, where do you strike that balance?
02:13:28.000Um, Alexander Hamilton predicted that it would be mostly based on public opinion, that judges are still people too, and they're going to look to public opinion.
02:13:37.000This goes to more of a democratic argument than a Republic style argument.
02:13:41.000I will defend precedent more than overturning, but I definitely think the court has gone wrong in a variety of different decisions in the last 60 years.
02:13:50.000And I think that what happens is you have very activist decisions and then they decide not to look at it again under a conservative belief of precedent.
02:13:59.000I think I would lean more towards precedent though, or sorry, as well, though maybe for a different reason.
02:14:05.000I think it's because we need accountability.
02:14:07.000The problem is if judicial decisions are entirely at the discretion of the judge, it becomes very difficult to correct legal trends through anything other than appoint better judges, which can be an incredibly long-standing process, and even then it's what, a crapshoot?
02:14:21.000I mean, you don't know everyone's opinion on everything.
02:14:23.000That being said, I do think that to an extent judges are legislators.
02:14:27.000This is actually a critical legal theory perspective which fed into CRT.
02:14:32.000The idea that within the bounds of discretion, judges will almost always side with the political biases they have.
02:14:39.000And that's not like a dig on any side, that's just what we are.
02:14:42.000That judges who identify as liberal or conservative will overwhelmingly side with each other in the plurality of cases.
02:14:50.000I think that we have to recognize that's a reality, but we do have to constrain the process through judicial precedent, or otherwise it's just throwing darts at a wall.
02:14:58.000I just want to point out, one of the Super Chats noted that we were trending.
02:15:22.000Hey, listen, after the, uh, the Twitter, uh, trending title descriptor had to spend like six weeks in a row describing everything that happened with those Minecraft YouTubers.
02:15:30.000I feel like this is a, they're, they're a little bit off their game.
02:15:34.000Maybe, maybe somebody's restreaming it on Twitch or whatever, you know?
02:16:25.000And when it comes to sociology, I'm not even talking, like, left-leaning inclinations on that.
02:16:30.000I mean, like, the basic ability to read, like, statistical information on what's going on, because for the rest of their lives, they're gonna be asked to vote based on political information they don't have the education to understand.
02:16:41.000Yeah, I mean, philosophy comes from a Greek word, love of wisdom, philosophos, and we definitely don't have that right now in our country.
02:17:09.000He's like, if you can't think rationally and be able to determine good ideas from bad ideas in the imperial, I'm not going to even get close to teaching you about the Allegory of the Cave or the ship or Plato's Republic or the forms.
02:17:20.000So I think there's actually something to that, that if you introduce philosophy too early, you can create kind of one-liner philosophers that think they understand the entire world.
02:17:30.000And it really goes to that expression, the more I know, the more I realize how little I knew when I thought I knew it all.
02:17:34.000That's the kind of that idea of daring to know.
02:17:38.000You know, the scientists who worked on the Manhattan Project, many of them said they cultivated inspiration from religion and from philosophy.
02:17:46.000Completely outside the bound of physics, but it got their brain a-joggin', you know?
02:17:49.000So I'd love to talk to you about religion, and just, like, where you think that fits into a functioning society.
02:17:53.000We should definitely talk about religion.
02:17:54.000This would be really, really interesting.
02:18:01.000And for everybody who super chatted, I know I really wish I could get to every single question and comment, but when you guys, we ask a question and you guys have that debate, that's the point of this.
02:18:09.000So, you know, I try to do as many as we could.
02:18:13.000I just thought it was better to let you guys talk instead of constantly trying to just cut off the actual discussion and the flow of things, so my apologies to everybody who superchatted, but if you go to TimCast.com, become a member, we are going to now have another conversation, which I don't believe will be up by 11 p.m.
02:18:26.000this time, because debating religion, I absolutely love the religious conversations we've had on this show on TimCast.com, so it'll be at TimCast.com.
02:18:33.000smash that like button subscribe to this channel share the show with your friends and Do you guys want to shout you can follow us at Tim cast IRL?
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