Timcast IRL - Tim Pool - Timcast IRL - Israel Formally Invades Gaza "It Has Begun," Saudis Warn US, WW3 Feared w-Scott Horton

00:00:00.000 The American Pronunciation Guide Presents «How to Pronounce Gaza»

00:00:09.000 The formal invasion of Gaza has begun.

00:00:11.000 Now the other day we saw tanks make moves into Gaza, which I think it's fair to say an invasion, but now we're seeing full-scale boots on the ground.

00:00:20.000 There's some wild rumors going around, we got to be very careful of, but people are sharing it.

00:00:24.000 Lebanese reporters claiming there's even US troops there.

00:00:27.000 I want to be careful about that because we just don't know for sure, we don't want to fan the flames, but this is getting, it's getting Hot to say the least.

00:00:35.000 And Saudi Arabia is warning the U.S.

00:00:37.000 things could get pretty intense.

00:00:39.000 And they can get pretty intense pretty quickly.

00:00:42.000 So we're going to talk a lot about that.

00:00:43.000 That's basically the dominating story right now.

00:00:45.000 There's mass protests happening at Grand Central Station in New York.

00:00:48.000 Many Jewish individuals who live in New York are protesting what's going on.

00:00:51.000 And this could spiral out of control very quickly.

00:00:53.000 So welcome to your Friday night.

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00:01:04.000 Why?

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00:02:14.000 Joining us tonight to talk about Israel is Scott Horton.

00:02:19.000 Hi Tim.

00:02:19.000 Thank you for having me.

00:02:20.000 Who are you?

00:02:20.000 What do you do?

00:02:22.000 Well, I'm the Director of the Libertarian Institute.

00:02:24.000 I'm the Editorial Director of Antiwar.com.

00:02:27.000 I'm the host of the Scott Horton Show.

00:02:29.000 I've got 6,000 interviews almost.

00:02:31.000 5,960 something going back to 2003.

00:02:36.000 At ScottHorton.org, and I'm the author of Fool's Errand, Time to End the War in Afghanistan, and Enough Already, Time to End the War on Terrorism, and I'm working on Provoked, How Washington Started the New Cold War with Russia and the Catastrophe in Ukraine.

00:02:51.000 And we got Phil Labonte here.

00:02:52.000 You got a book signed.

00:02:53.000 What was that book?

00:02:54.000 That book was Enough Already by Scott Horton.

00:02:58.000 I am Phil Labonte, lead singer of the heavy metal band All That Remains, very failed musician, anti-communist, and counter-revolutionary.

00:03:06.000 Libby.

00:03:06.000 Hey, Phil.

00:03:07.000 Hi!

00:03:07.000 Hi, everybody.

00:03:08.000 I'm Libby Emmons.

00:03:09.000 I am the editor with the Postmillennial on Human Events.

00:03:12.000 Filling in for Ian again.

00:03:13.000 Glad to be here.

00:03:14.000 Ian's just gone.

00:03:15.000 He messaged me.

00:03:16.000 He's like, I'll be back at some... Where is he?

00:03:17.000 He's in Miami.

00:03:18.000 Oh, okay.

00:03:19.000 He's on vacation.

00:03:19.000 You know, vacations happen.

00:03:20.000 It's nice to take vacation.

00:03:22.000 You know what happened?

00:03:23.000 I envy Ian a vacation.

00:03:24.000 He started working out.

00:03:25.000 A vacation.

00:03:26.000 What is that?

00:03:27.000 I don't know.

00:03:28.000 I'm thinking maybe I'll look it up.

00:03:30.000 Must be on Urban Dictionary or something.

00:03:31.000 Ian started working out.

00:03:32.000 And then now he's doing tactical training with Luke and using guns.

00:03:37.000 And I'm just like, here goes.

00:03:39.000 He said he prayed to Jesus and I'm like, it's the gym to Jesus pipeline.

00:03:43.000 He's going to be in a right wing death squad the next thing you know.

00:03:46.000 Ian, no!

00:03:47.000 Alright, but he'll be back next week probably, so we got Serge pressing the buttons.

00:03:50.000 You introduced yourself already, right?

00:03:51.000 I didn't skip over you.

00:03:52.000 I did, I'm good.

00:03:53.000 I'm all good.

00:03:54.000 We got so wrapped up on Ian.

00:03:55.000 It's okay.

00:03:56.000 I am here.

00:03:56.000 I'm waiting for Ian to get back.

00:03:57.000 I'm excited to see him.

00:03:59.000 If anyone's a Springbok supporter, we got a really big game this weekend.

00:04:02.000 We can beat the All Blacks.

00:04:03.000 Anyways.

00:04:03.000 Alright, here we go.

00:04:04.000 Fox News has it.

00:04:05.000 Israel launches second ground incursion into Gaza.

00:04:08.000 Hamas commander killed in airstrike.

00:04:11.000 A bunch of different reports.

00:04:12.000 This is all major breaking news.

00:04:14.000 U.S.

00:04:14.000 won't draw red lines for Israel in war with Hamas, etc., etc.

00:04:18.000 We've got this story from the Daily Mail.

00:04:20.000 Quote, Hamas will feel our wrath tonight. 0.73

00:04:23.000 Warns Israel as it unleashes unprecedented airstrikes on Gaza.

00:04:27.000 IDF steps up ground operations and tells Palestinians to flee south now as invasion looms with phone lines and internet cut across the city.

00:04:36.000 You were mentioning just a moment ago that there's a, Scott, One of the, I guess, rumors or thoughts or whatever is that Israel may try to split the Gaza Strip in half between two cities.

00:04:47.000 Tell us what's going on.

00:04:49.000 Well I don't really know.

00:04:49.000 I have a Israeli friend that sent me a message earlier today that said the invasion has begun and I don't know the extent of it.

00:04:57.000 He actually had also sent me a document that was a few years old that was a military study, an Israeli military study about how to invade and conquer the Strip and they had a few different ideas about how to go about it and I guess one of them that My friend who was a veteran also, he's a veteran of the 2006 Lebanon War, or Hezbollah War.

00:05:21.000 He, I think, thought that this would be the most likely take, that they would invade kind of in the middle of Gaza and divide Khan Yunis from Gaza City.

00:05:34.000 You know they have a hell of a fight if they're really going if the doctrine truly is to eradicate Hamas as they had previously said to completely eradicate Hamas.

00:05:44.000 They have a real fight on their hands because they have thousands of guys and they have these very deep tunnels and in 2014 they started to invade and Hamas guys were popping up out of the ground, out all over the place, and they were taking casualties.

00:06:00.000 They were getting up close and kind of ruining the Israelis' advantage by taking them out up close. 1.00

00:06:07.000 And the Israelis, they pulled back and instead just went to artillery and air power.

00:06:12.000 So if they're going to truly, quote unquote, clean out the Gaza Strip of Hamas, it's going to cost incredible casualties on both sides.

00:06:22.000 I just want to mention, you know, we hear it from Neolibs in the United States all the time about gun control, about if you want to go up against the U.S., you need nukes and all that stuff, and it's like, dude, guys with guns are dangerous.

00:06:33.000 You can't occupy a street corner with a drone.

00:06:35.000 You can just terrorize and devastate, but if you want control of something, guys with guns, you know, so that's, yeah.

00:06:42.000 Now Seymour Hersh, the incredibly important journalist Seymour Hersh has been writing that he has contacts in Israeli intelligence and in the military and whatever who are saying that America has delivered these massive bunker buster bombs which they're essentially dropped from very high altitude and achieve very high speed and then they have a double charge.

00:07:05.000 The cone fires some kind of superheated charge into the ground to dig a hole down 30 40 meters and then the main charge which is also a shape charge that's shaped downward goes so that you this is how to kill a bunker without having to use a nuke is to use these massive bunker buster bombs and then the idea is they're going to try to use these to destroy the hamas tunnels but of course hamas has dug their tunnels deep enough to try to be protected from those so we don't know if that'll really work

00:07:34.000 For them or not.

00:07:35.000 They're going to have to do like tunnel rat type tactics like they did in Vietnam. 0.98

00:07:39.000 And one of the things that I wanted to, that I was mentioning to Scott earlier that we didn't want to talk about without being on air, is this is going to be, if they do decide to go into, you know, really go in full scale, it's going to be like Fallujah, you know, in Iraq.

00:07:52.000 And that was bloody.

00:07:54.000 And a lot of people died.

00:07:55.000 A lot of innocent people died.

00:07:57.000 So the idea that this is going to be some kind of Easy fight.

00:08:02.000 That is absolutely not the case.

00:08:08.000 It's a crazy thing to hope.

00:08:10.000 Not really, but I'm hoping that the Ukraine stuff is fizzling out.

00:08:16.000 But I'm not so sure.

00:08:17.000 There's talk that the U.S.

00:08:19.000 is losing interest in this because of the shifting fight.

00:08:21.000 A shifting fight is better than expanding into World War III.

00:08:25.000 But I got this foreboding feeling as we're preparing the show.

00:08:28.000 Reports that U.S.

00:08:29.000 has led airstrikes on Iranian-backed targets already.

00:08:32.000 That's another story we'll pull up in a second.

00:08:34.000 And I'm like, If the U.S.

00:08:36.000 is deploying tens of thousands, 19,000 personnel to the region already, some are saying that they've been deploying the largest, it's the largest NATO fleet ever amassed.

00:08:45.000 I don't know if that's true, but I'm seeing these, you know, these images and like various individuals in politics posting these things.

00:08:52.000 May or may not be true.

00:08:53.000 But we saw the announcement last night that the U.S.

00:08:56.000 has deployed many more troops into the region.

00:08:58.000 We're getting more moving from other areas into this area.

00:09:01.000 Feels like World War III.

00:09:02.000 I have information that there are Delta units being moved into the area either tomorrow Or the day after something?

00:09:14.000 So there are rumors on Twitter right now that U.S.

00:09:17.000 elite forces, Delta forces are in the conflict already in in Gaza.

00:09:21.000 I don't I I'm I'm hard pressed to believe that.

00:09:24.000 Well, there was a picture last week of that they put the incompetence in the White House posted on Instagram, a picture of Biden shaking hands with Delta force operators and congratulating them for all the great work that they're doing in Palestine.

00:09:36.000 They took it down real quick, but I believe so.

00:09:38.000 No, those those guys were security detail.

00:09:41.000 Okay, yeah, they took it down quickly also, but you could when they read when they reposted it with their faces blacked out You could still see their tattoos. 0.53

00:09:48.000 Yeah, I mean the operational security there is completely ridiculous.

00:09:51.000 But look as far as World War three I don't know about you know, look there's slippery slope arguments where Russia ends up involved here that kind of thing, but Look at just the risk of regional war where we could have you know, this war very quickly and Never mind how difficult it is for the people of Gaza and the Israeli conscripts who are invading right now, by the way.

00:10:14.000 But for the region, this very quickly could escalate to a war with Hezbollah in southern Lebanon, with all different kinds of... It's already in Syria.

00:10:24.000 of militias in syria and why are we in syria when syria for israel right donald trump tried to get us out of syria three different times and his military overrode in line different times they lied to his face and they just canceled his orders three times and why Well, because America got rid of Saddam Hussein and empowered Iran, and so now, since the regime change against Assad failed, and Iran and Hezbollah had even more influence in Syria than ever before, then America had to stay to occupy that Al-Tanf base, to block the so-called land bridge,

00:11:02.000 From Iran to Beirut.

00:11:03.000 And so that's why our guys are there.

00:11:05.000 And then when Israel goes and does what they're doing in Gaza now, then our guys are at risk. 0.90

00:11:10.000 And I actually have a friend whose son is deployed in Syria right now, who's at risk of getting killed over this.

00:11:16.000 You know, there's that guy that ran for Congress in, help me out, in Washington state.

00:11:20.000 That almost won the Republican Joe Kent, whose his wife was killed in Syria after Trump ordered our guys out and the military said, no, and just said, they laid that order.

00:11:31.000 They said, they said, you got it, Trump.

00:11:33.000 Don't do it.

00:11:34.000 Yeah, the idea.

00:11:35.000 They made him back down, actually, on the order.

00:11:37.000 This has happened three times in 2017, 2018, and in his lame-duck session in December of 2020.

00:11:44.000 He ordered, he said, I want our guys out!

00:11:47.000 And they essentially dragged their feet and then forced him to back down and change his mind.

00:11:53.000 And look, this gets to the very bottom line, right?

00:11:56.000 Who listening to this show right now wants Iraq War 4? 0.74

00:12:00.000 Right?

00:12:00.000 After George W. Bush put Iran's best friends in power in Baghdad.

00:12:06.000 Who wants to go back to Iraq? 1.00

00:12:07.000 Who wants to do another war in Syria?

00:12:11.000 Supporting Israel is not in the interests of the United States of America.

00:12:15.000 It's not.

00:12:16.000 And General James Mattis and General David Petraeus both in candid moments admitted, they said something very close to, our men pay a price in terms of their security in the Middle East every day because of Israel and what they do in Palestine. 0.89

00:12:33.000 And you talk about Fallujah?

00:12:35.000 Here's a great example of that.

00:12:37.000 In March of 2004, Sheik Yassin, who was the founder of Hamas, who Israel had financed and helped for years to grow Hamas, he started moderating his position and trying to get along, so they assassinated him.

00:12:54.000 Because they don't want a partner for peace.

00:12:56.000 We're going to talk more about that.

00:12:58.000 They murdered him because he was mellowing out.

00:13:00.000 And that was in March of 2004.

00:13:02.000 It was just like a week later was the giant riot in Fallujah.

00:13:07.000 Maybe it was two weeks later was the giant riot in Fallujah where the Blackwater guards were lynched and their bodies burned and hung on the bridge.

00:13:16.000 And one of the corpses was dragged through the street With another guy tied to the hood of a car with a big picture of Sheikh Yassin in the window.

00:13:28.000 And it was the Israeli assassination of the founder of Hamas that had helped to touch off that riot that killed those Blackwater guards that then led to Bush, and maybe this is what Mattis was referring to, this led to Bush ordering James Mattis to go in there and clean them out.

00:13:46.000 And what they did was like a free-fire zone.

00:13:48.000 If you're a civilian, leave the city. 0.99

00:13:49.000 If you don't leave the city, your life is forfeit.

00:13:53.000 Like Vietnam. 0.94

00:13:53.000 Right? 0.94

00:13:54.000 And they didn't do that in the other battles in Iraq War II, but they did that in Fallujah.

00:13:58.000 And the first big battle of Fallujah in March of 2004 is what really kicked off the Sunni-based insurgency that killed 4,000 of our guys in Iraq War II.

00:14:09.000 And it was because Israel assassinated their own former sock puppet. 0.82

00:14:14.000 When he was becoming a public relations liability for them.

00:14:19.000 I wanted to point out when it came to Biden and the leaked photo, Telegraph reports that it was a hostage rescue unit in Israel.

00:14:25.000 Yeah, that's what I had thought.

00:14:28.000 I don't, I don't, you guys heard something different or?

00:14:30.000 I think it was security detail.

00:14:32.000 If it's Delta, they don't like to talk about what they're actually doing.

00:14:34.000 Well, that was the scandal.

00:14:36.000 The scandal was they leaked the information on accident.

00:14:39.000 They weren't supposed to post the photo.

00:14:40.000 Right on their Instagram.

00:14:41.000 Yeah.

00:14:41.000 And that's why they deleted it.

00:14:43.000 Delta is top-tier special operations forces.

00:14:46.000 When they get killed, they don't report their casualties, right?

00:14:50.000 These guys are clandestine forces, top-tier guys, right?

00:14:54.000 Above the special forces.

00:14:57.000 But if they're there in Israel, That I think I don't know if they're gonna I don't know if they're gonna put them into Israel and I this is this is only like hearsay stuff that I that I've I've got but it's my understanding that they're probably gonna be going into the bases in because there's there's a base in the desert in Iraq that they that they forward operate from so they can get into Syria and stuff so if I understand correctly they're gonna be

00:15:22.000 In that area.

00:15:23.000 I don't know that they won't put them in support roles for the IDF.

00:15:29.000 I think that more than likely, if there's a support force, it'd be the two Marine Expeditionary Units that are in the area that are on carriers.

00:15:38.000 You know, Delta doesn't have enough guys where they'd be a big support role.

00:15:42.000 Because there's only a few hundred of them.

00:15:45.000 There's maybe like 500 Delta.

00:15:46.000 Well, the Post said that they have generals embedded with the Israeli military helping advise.

00:15:50.000 That could be.

00:15:50.000 I'm not so sure which service.

00:15:52.000 Advising is sure, like we can have an argument, like why are we involved?

00:15:56.000 But actual warriors?

00:15:57.000 Actual fighters down there?

00:15:59.000 That's disconcerting.

00:16:00.000 And I would also be very concerned about the kind of person that gleefully smiles with excitement at meeting Joe Biden.

00:16:08.000 Yeah, seriously.

00:16:09.000 No, but for real, I mean, look, if you talk to the average American, they don't like Joe Biden.

00:16:13.000 No.

00:16:14.000 You'll find your average Democrat who despises Donald Trump with the most extreme Trump derangement syndrome does not like Joe Biden.

00:16:20.000 But they'll still vote for him.

00:16:21.000 And that I get, that's fine.

00:16:22.000 My point is, they don't meet Joe Biden and go, yeah!

00:16:25.000 Yeah, fist bump, high five, like, it's so great to meet you.

00:16:27.000 And I look at this photo of these guys shaking Biden's hand and I'm like, I am worried about... Although, you know, I mean... He's the boss.

00:16:32.000 They're military and he's the president.

00:16:34.000 That's basically all that's really going on there.

00:16:36.000 But that's my point, that's my point.

00:16:38.000 His approval rating is down 11 points among Democrats right now.

00:16:41.000 But this is my point.

00:16:42.000 The idea that there are people who are like, I'm excited to meet him, he's the boss, hoorah, and it's just like, dude... 0.95

00:16:49.000 Biden's an evil guy. 0.93

00:16:52.000 You should be ashamed that he is the one giving orders. 0.98

00:16:55.000 Agree.

00:16:56.000 But I think perhaps for a lot of these guys that are doing the top tier stuff, They don't think Joe Biden's the boss.

00:17:04.000 Just because of the picture, they were smiling.

00:17:07.000 I think it's likely that they were putting a face on because you don't spit in the face of the president.

00:17:13.000 I would be magnanimous if I met the president.

00:17:16.000 I would say that I would be kind and smile as well.

00:17:20.000 My bigger concern is the excitement to meet him and get a photo op and do all these things instead of being like, look, I get he's the president.

00:17:26.000 I'll be respectful.

00:17:27.000 There's a difference.

00:17:29.000 I'm fairly confident, I can't say for sure, but I'm fairly confident that they were getting ribbed later on.

00:17:36.000 The dudes were like, really?

00:17:37.000 Because there are people that I know that are not in the military that also know dudes that are like that, and they're just like, yeah, they weren't.

00:17:44.000 Well, look, I want to go back to what you're saying about like, you know, how could any of them have faith in him as their commander-in-chief?

00:17:50.000 Remember in 2013, Barack Obama tried to take us to war in Syria over the first fake sarin attack, and essentially the American military And any potential volunteers were like, no, we're not falling Barack Obama into battle.

00:18:06.000 That's our commander in chief.

00:18:08.000 Forget it.

00:18:09.000 Well, look, if Barack Obama was JFK, then Joe Biden's LBJ.

00:18:14.000 Who has faith in him?

00:18:15.000 Like no one.

00:18:16.000 You're going to sign your son up for the service when Joe Biden's the one calling the shots?

00:18:22.000 I mean, if you're already on the Delta team, I guess you might not quit.

00:18:26.000 But who wants to send their son to join the service right now?

00:18:29.000 Let's go back in time.

00:18:30.000 Yeah.

00:18:32.000 So we have this period under Barack Obama.

00:18:34.000 Oh boy, did I fall for that one.

00:18:35.000 In 2008, I had all my friends being like, he's going to end these wars, man.

00:18:39.000 We all hate the wars.

00:18:40.000 We all hate what George W. Bush was doing.

00:18:41.000 And I was like, all right, whatever.

00:18:43.000 I guess I'll vote for the guy.

00:18:44.000 And then Barack Obama gets in, and like day three, he's like, I'm going to blow some gibs up. 0.96

00:18:47.000 Got to blow them up. 0.76

00:18:48.000 Too many of them.

00:18:48.000 And then we, like, I remember one of the first- Too many of them.

00:18:51.000 That's Seamus' joke.

00:18:52.000 Seamus, shout out Seamus Coghlan. 0.98

00:18:53.000 Got to blow them up. 0.99

00:18:54.000 Too many.

00:18:55.000 And when it's like day three of his presidency- In Pakistan.

00:18:59.000 Yeah, it was like 23 women and children were killed in a village in an airstrike or whatever, and I was just like... That was the wedding, right?

00:19:05.000 Wasn't it a wedding?

00:19:05.000 I don't think so.

00:19:06.000 It's been a long time.

00:19:07.000 There were a lot of weddings.

00:19:08.000 I don't think that particular one was.

00:19:09.000 But that one sticks with me.

00:19:10.000 Pakistan, civilians killed, and I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on, hold on, hold on.

00:19:14.000 He's there now.

00:19:15.000 Obama was supposed to say no, and then, oh boy, did I learn quick.

00:19:18.000 How old was I?

00:19:19.000 2008.

00:19:19.000 And I was just like, well, that was fun.

00:19:21.000 I'm out.

00:19:21.000 Well, in that election, I remember because I was in New York doing like indie art projects, and Everyone was very on board with Obama, and I remember telling them, like, he promised that he was going to send more troops to Afghanistan.

00:19:34.000 And they were like, no, he didn't.

00:19:35.000 I was like, no, he totally said he was going to send more guys to Afghanistan, which I can't vote for him because of that, because he's, you know, my goal is to vote anti-war.

00:19:45.000 And they were like, well, he's not going to do that.

00:19:47.000 And of course he did that.

00:19:49.000 These are also the same people who, when he put the Obamacare into place, that had a mandate, and if you didn't sign up for health insurance you would get taxed extra, they were like, that's great!

00:19:58.000 And then when they got taxed extra, they were like, why me?

00:20:00.000 Seriously.

00:20:01.000 Partisanship is the mind killer.

00:20:03.000 It's the worst.

00:20:03.000 And you're right, he out-vowedly said he was going to escalate the Afghan war.

00:20:07.000 Yes!

00:20:08.000 And I write about this.

00:20:09.000 I got a chapter two on this in Fool's Errand.

00:20:12.000 He really said he wanted to send a couple brigades, which was mostly just like a PR thing that he was saying Afghanistan is the good war, Iraq is the bad war, whatever.

00:20:22.000 Then as soon as he got into power, They just absolutely rolled him, and it was the Secretary of Defense, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Generals Petraeus and McChrystal, in alliance with McCain and Graham in the Senate, and they spent nine months pressuring him to escalate that war by 70,000 troops, which eventually he did.

00:20:46.000 And Lindsey Graham promised him, he said, give us a number, this is after he already sent 40, Graham said, give us, us being him and McCain, give us a number that starts with a three and we'll leave you alone.

00:20:58.000 Meaning 30,000 something more troops.

00:21:00.000 And Obama made the deal.

00:21:02.000 So here was his calculation, right?

00:21:04.000 I'm going to triple a war that I know I can't win. 0.99

00:21:08.000 I know that I'm going to get thousands of American soldiers shot and blown up and killed. 0.99

00:21:12.000 I know I'm going to get tens or hundreds of thousands of Afghans killed. 1.00

00:21:16.000 But it's going to keep John McCain off my back. 0.98

00:21:18.000 We made a deal.

00:21:20.000 And that was what he did.

00:21:21.000 And so he escalated the war and then he lost it anyway.

00:21:23.000 Lindsey Graham is vile. 1.00

00:21:27.000 Evil. 0.97

00:21:28.000 You saw what he just said recently, right?

00:21:29.000 Yeah. 0.83

00:21:30.000 With or without evidence, it's time to start bombing Iranian targets. 1.00

00:21:33.000 He wants to go to war with Iran so bad.

00:21:35.000 And I know that there are still like holdovers in the government that still think it's a good idea.

00:21:41.000 I don't think that there's anyone in America that thinks it's a good idea, no regular people in America, that think it's a good idea to engage in a war with Iran.

00:21:49.000 Right.

00:21:49.000 Look, in 2007, Dick Cheney and George Bush wanted to.

00:21:54.000 They were escalating the war, they launched the Iraq War surge, and then they even dropped the lies about the nuclear weapons program for a minute to focus on the lies that they claimed, and people should check this, it's not true and I wrote it all up in Enough Already.

00:22:07.000 They claimed that Iran was responsible for every roadside bomb that went off in Shiite parts of Iraq.

00:22:14.000 That's just not true.

00:22:15.000 They were all being made in Iraq by Iraqis. 1.00

00:22:18.000 But that was the propaganda and that was supposed to be the excuse for the war.

00:22:21.000 And then what happened was that the Joint Chiefs brought George W. Bush to the Pentagon.

00:22:27.000 I believe this is in January or February of 2007.

00:22:31.000 And they went to the tank, like the secure room in the basement or whatever, and they told W. Bush, we're not going to Iran.

00:22:38.000 Like, maybe the Air Force and the Navy talk tough with their air power, but the Army and the Marines, who are already getting chewed up in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the Special Operations Forces, they will die by the thousands and thousands and maybe tens of thousands.

00:22:54.000 In a war, because you have to send in, to take out the anti-aircraft, you have to send in special operations forces with laser designators to take out the anti-aircraft.

00:23:03.000 And you sure can't win a war or get a real regime change from the air.

00:23:06.000 All you could do is some kind of crazy punitive strike anyway.

00:23:09.000 Right.

00:23:09.000 And as they put it, you need guys with guns.

00:23:12.000 That's right.

00:23:13.000 We do not have strategic, I forgot the word for it, what was it?

00:23:18.000 The strategic dominant, that's not the term for it, I'm sorry.

00:23:21.000 I believe it would.

00:23:22.000 I'm sorry.

00:23:23.000 Anyway, the point was the Pentagon, they want to be able to, oh, escalation dominance.

00:23:28.000 This was the term I'm looking for.

00:23:28.000 Pardon me.

00:23:30.000 We don't want to fight unless we have escalation dominance, meaning we control every stage of the war.

00:23:36.000 We do this, they'll do that, but don't worry, because then we'll do this.

00:23:39.000 And then they'll do that, but we have that covered.

00:23:42.000 And they said, but in the case of Iran, we do not have escalation dominance.

00:23:45.000 In the case of Iran, if we attack Iran, they have tens of thousands of missiles.

00:23:49.000 Now luckily we don't have 100,000 troops in Iraq and Afghanistan anymore, but we got tens of thousands in Kuwait, we still do have thousands in Iraq, low thousands in Iraq, and we have The 5th Fleet Navy Base at Bahrain, and we have CENTCOM headquarters at the Al-Ulid Base in Qatar.

00:24:09.000 And our allies, the Saudis, Bahrain, UAE, have trillions of dollars worth of economic targets all up and down the western side of that Gulf.

00:24:19.000 And if we go to war with Iran, every bit of that is up for grabs, including our Navy and Air Base there.

00:24:25.000 A geography lesson would wake a lot of Americans up very quickly.

00:24:30.000 So, you can pull this up.

00:24:31.000 This is Google Maps.

00:24:32.000 Figure it out.

00:24:33.000 As soon as you look at the map, you go, now I get it.

00:24:37.000 Iraq, Afghanistan.

00:24:39.000 Two amazing coincidental countries for the U.S.

00:24:42.000 that's having a bunch of military bases in.

00:24:44.000 And Kuwait, where we have a bunch of troops.

00:24:46.000 I wonder why that may be.

00:24:48.000 And what do you think Iran is thinking, surrounded by U.S.

00:24:52.000 military assets?

00:24:53.000 This has been the plan for a long time.

00:24:55.000 In fact, Cenk Uygur mentioned, um, Wesley Clark?

00:24:59.000 Was that his name?

00:25:01.000 We talked about the seven nations the U.S.

00:25:03.000 wanted to invade, and Iran's one of them. 1.00

00:25:08.000 Has the U.S.

00:25:10.000 gone after all of them already, or which ones have not?

00:25:12.000 Almost.

00:25:13.000 Okay, so it's a great anecdote.

00:25:14.000 People who aren't familiar, you ought to look this up.

00:25:16.000 It's General Wesley Clark.

00:25:18.000 He was the guy that did the Kosovo War for Bill Clinton.

00:25:20.000 He was the Supreme Allied Commander of NATO in 1999.

00:25:24.000 Almost got us all killed in World War III there.

00:25:27.000 Ask me about that anecdote later.

00:25:28.000 But anyway, And this gets right to the neocons and the Israel lobby in the United States.

00:25:34.000 He went to the Pentagon right after September 11th, and an officer said, General, come here, I want to show you something, and showed him this piece of paper.

00:25:43.000 He said, this is the plan for regime change in the new war.

00:25:48.000 He said, we're going to war with Iraq.

00:25:50.000 And Wesley Clarke said, Iraq?

00:25:51.000 Why would we go to Iraq?

00:25:52.000 They don't have anything to do with September 11th or Al-Qaeda, of course.

00:25:55.000 And the guy said, yeah, no, check it out.

00:25:57.000 So the list was, I hope I can get this right, the list was Iraq, Lebanon, by which they meant not necessarily everyone in Beirut, but Hezbollah in Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Somalia, and did I already say Sudan?

00:26:13.000 And Iran, ending with Iran. 0.88

00:26:15.000 Well, they did Iraq War II.

00:26:18.000 They failed to do the regime change in Syria.

00:26:20.000 They did Libya. 0.98

00:26:22.000 They broke off the south from Sudan. 0.62

00:26:24.000 And, you know, there was a regime change there, although I don't know if it was America's sock puppets really that took over or not.

00:26:33.000 They certainly broke the country in half, and so the only one left is, well and Hezbollah still stands, and then is Iran. 0.99

00:26:44.000 And so look, this gets to all of Iraq War II.

00:26:47.000 Let's talk about the clean break.

00:26:48.000 Have you ever read the paper, A Clean Break?

00:26:51.000 Have you ever heard of that?

00:26:53.000 So, David Wormser is an important neoconservative apparatchik.

00:26:59.000 He was Foreign Policy Advisor to Dick Cheney in the first W. Bush term.

00:27:06.000 And in 1996, when Benjamin Netanyahu was brand new, the first time he was the Prime Minister of Israel, he came in in 96.

00:27:14.000 And David Wormser, Douglas Feith, and Richard Perle wrote this study.

00:27:20.000 These are American neoconservatives.

00:27:22.000 It's called A Clean Break, A New Strategy for Securing the Realm.

00:27:27.000 And they wrote it for Netanyahu.

00:27:30.000 And what it says is this.

00:27:32.000 It says, Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah We are the threat to Israel, particularly Hezbollah in southern Lebanon, backed by Iran and Syria. 0.93

00:27:45.000 And what we want to do is we want to break that chain.

00:27:49.000 And then, get this, they said to break that chain what we want to do is we want to get rid of Saddam Hussein in Iraq.

00:27:55.000 Huh?

00:27:56.000 Saddam Hussein is the Sunni, the minority Sunni dictator sitting on a super-majority Shiite population.

00:28:05.000 And Iran and Hezbollah, of course, are these fundamentalist Shiite regimes.

00:28:10.000 So why does it make sense to these neocons to get rid of Saddam Hussein?

00:28:16.000 Well, it was this ridiculous Rube Goldberg scheme that they had come up with.

00:28:20.000 If we get rid of Saddam Hussein... Who's Rube Goldberg? 0.96

00:28:23.000 Oh, Rube Goldberg is the guy that makes the ridiculous, like, the mousetrap machine, where it's like a hundred little gears turn to make... Yeah, Pee Wee Herman's Breakfast. 0.95

00:28:32.000 The perpetual motion machine.

00:28:33.000 That's exactly right.

00:28:34.000 Pee Wee Herman's Breakfast.

00:28:35.000 There's probably a lot of young people, some jazzy people, like, what?

00:28:39.000 Yeah, y'all get Pee Wee's Big Adventure off the Pirate Bay tonight.

00:28:42.000 It's a classic.

00:28:43.000 It's a great movie.

00:28:44.000 I think it's on... probably on Netflix.

00:28:47.000 But look, so here was the scheme, okay?

00:28:49.000 The Rube Goldberg scheme was, if we get rid of Saddam Hussein, then we will get the cousin of the King of Jordan to take over Iraq. 0.59

00:28:59.000 And because he's a Hashemite with the blood of the Prophet in his veins, all the Shiites will just bend over and kiss his bottom and do whatever he says. 1.00

00:29:08.000 Which, this is completely crazy.

00:29:10.000 The Shiites don't revere the Hashemites at all. 0.83

00:29:13.000 The Hashemites are Sunnis. 1.00

00:29:15.000 And even though the Shiites revere the bloodline of the Prophet, it's not like their priests and even priests and cardinals and bishops don't have like political control over their people directly.

00:29:27.000 So, in other words, they were living in this fantasy world.

00:29:32.000 That the Shiites of Iraq would become compliant under the new pro-American installed and pro-Israeli installed regime.

00:29:41.000 And then because Shiite Islam is born in Iraq and then spread into Iran, they would get the Shiite clergy in Najaf to order Hezbollah to stop being friends with Iran and start being friends with Israel. 0.85

00:29:55.000 And Iraq, under these compliant Shiites, would then give the full advantage to America, Jordan, Turkey, and Israel, our friends in the region, against Iran. 1.00

00:30:07.000 Well, Tim, this is the dumbest damn thing. 0.99

00:30:10.000 This makes no sense at all. 1.00

00:30:12.000 And people can read.

00:30:13.000 It's called The Clean Break by Wormser.

00:30:15.000 The follow-up is called Coping with Crumbling States.

00:30:18.000 And if you really want to know, they wrote a book about it called Tyranny's Ally.

00:30:23.000 And then what really happened in Iraq War II?

00:30:25.000 What happened in Iraq War II was Bush overthrew the minority Sunni dictator and he put the super-majority Shiite population in charge and their political factions who happened to be guys who'd been living in Iran for 30 years since Jimmy Carter had hired Saddam Hussein to invade Iran back after the revolution. 0.58

00:30:44.000 And so they were the ones who came and inherited the whole thing.

00:30:47.000 So when we think about Iraq War II of the George W. Bush years, that whole five-year civil war that was going on, that was Bush fighting for Iran's side in the war against his own friends because that was what the neoconservatives thought would be good for Israel.

00:31:01.000 I saw this post on Twitter.

00:31:04.000 They were talking about how Biden's approval collapsed after the Afghan withdrawal.

00:31:08.000 And instead of making the point that Joe Biden botched the withdrawal and Ian goes off calling it a surrender.

00:31:17.000 I mean, it seems on purpose.

00:31:19.000 They said it was a bad play by Trump and Biden shouldn't have followed through.

00:31:23.000 Instead of it was the right play by Trump and Biden intentionally, in my opinion, flubbed the whole thing.

00:31:29.000 Everything?

00:31:29.000 But this is the point.

00:31:31.000 The reason why I'll say intentionally now, in my opinion, is that at the time we were asking, did Biden screw this up on purpose to sour the idea of withdrawal in the minds of the American public?

00:31:41.000 The reality was you could withdraw from Afghanistan without causing what Biden caused.

00:31:46.000 But now what I'm seeing is journalists say Trump's plan was bad and Biden is getting blamed for it.

00:31:51.000 No, Biden's plan was... Trump put the plan in place way earlier in the spring.

00:31:56.000 That's right.

00:31:56.000 He made that promise.

00:31:57.000 And there were plenty of opportunities to get started on that withdrawal.

00:32:01.000 And what happened was... No, I hear what you're saying.

00:32:03.000 The Biden administration refused to get started on the withdrawal.

00:32:06.000 And so they had to do it the last minute.

00:32:07.000 It's not just that.

00:32:08.000 It's they abandoned Bagram in the middle of the night without telling the Afghani security forces.

00:32:13.000 They left all...

00:32:14.000 I think they turned it over to the ANA, but the ANA couldn't hold it.

00:32:20.000 In the middle of the night, the US forces pulled out without notice, and regular Afghanis just looted the buildings, and there were helicopter pilots I think this is a New York Times reporting that instantly lost logistics and didn't know what was going on, landed the helicopters and ran away.

00:32:39.000 Yeah.

00:32:39.000 Because they were like, there's no one anymore.

00:32:40.000 No, I'm not talking, there was, it was just, it was an insane, insane move.

00:32:45.000 And I think what they wanted, yes, Joe Biden gets the negativity from it, but they don't think Joe, I do not see Joe Biden being the candidate 2024.

00:32:55.000 It makes literally no sense.

00:32:56.000 He's their, he's their, their sacrificial lamb, their scapegoat.

00:32:59.000 Now, what they're going to do, and they're starting to do it, is saying, you see what happens when we withdraw?

00:33:04.000 It's chaos.

00:33:05.000 Americans say, we can't, we have to stay and keep the troops overseas.

00:33:08.000 Everything that was bad about the withdrawal from Afghanistan was all tactics.

00:33:16.000 None of it was policy.

00:33:17.000 It was insane how they left all of the weapons, but now what we have is the Taliban saying, if you give me safe passage, we'll destroy Israel for you. 0.73

00:33:27.000 Well, they're not getting anywhere near Israel.

00:33:29.000 Check the map again.

00:33:30.000 Put the map up.

00:33:30.000 Right, I'm just saying, that is the goal of the Taliban, is to destroy Israel.

00:33:35.000 So look, you make a great point about the narrative here about, oh yeah, see what happens when you ever leave anywhere?

00:33:40.000 Something bad happens, right?

00:33:42.000 You're right.

00:33:42.000 I don't believe that that was the reason that they did what they did, though, and I can explain why.

00:33:46.000 Here's what they did.

00:33:48.000 Okay, Trump, as she said absolutely correctly, Libby said, Trump's deal was we leave by May 1st.

00:33:55.000 We're out by May the 1st.

00:33:56.000 Okay, that's the start of the fighting season, right?

00:33:59.000 Everything's frozen over until the summertime essentially comes.

00:34:02.000 That's the start of the fighting season.

00:34:04.000 We're supposed to be gone by then.

00:34:06.000 Biden came in and said, well, I don't want to live up to Trump's deal.

00:34:10.000 I want it to be my Afghan withdrawal, not Trump's Afghan withdrawal.

00:34:14.000 And I don't want people to be able to say that I did what Trump said I had to do and this and that.

00:34:18.000 So what did he do?

00:34:19.000 He kicked the can down the road for four months to September, which, remember, they said, we're going to do it September 11th.

00:34:25.000 Like, what do they do?

00:34:26.000 Just public relations people are crazy.

00:34:28.000 And in Afghanistan, they were like, you kind of promised. 0.94

00:34:30.000 But here's the deal that you guys need to understand about the war, OK?

00:34:33.000 The war was lost.

00:34:35.000 They had to leave, okay?

00:34:39.000 Bush and Obama lost that war before Trump ever got there.

00:34:43.000 The Taliban were ascendant.

00:34:44.000 They controlled 60% of the country in the daytime.

00:34:46.000 They controlled 80 or more percent of it at night.

00:34:49.000 Part of it was they didn't know what a win looks like.

00:34:51.000 They didn't know what a win would look like.

00:34:52.000 The policy was wrong.

00:34:53.000 Look, let's just stick with the withdrawal here for a second.

00:34:58.000 If Biden He was going to tell the truth to the American people about that war.

00:35:03.000 He would have had to tell them, listen, we lost.

00:35:07.000 The government that we built has no popular support.

00:35:11.000 It cannot stand.

00:35:12.000 The military that we built has no popular support.

00:35:16.000 It cannot stand.

00:35:17.000 We failed.

00:35:19.000 We're leaving.

00:35:20.000 But he couldn't do that, right?

00:35:21.000 He had to say, what did he say?

00:35:23.000 He said, we won the war.

00:35:24.000 It was great.

00:35:25.000 We built a great government in Kabul, which will surely last for years, and we built this great, magnificent Afghan National Army, 300,000 men strong, and it's sure to last for years, too.

00:35:36.000 That's why we can leave.

00:35:37.000 Not because we blew it, but because we did it, everybody, and so now we can go.

00:35:43.000 Well, by sticking to that lie, That meant they had to leave all those weapons in the hands of the Afghan National Army that couldn't hold on to them and ended up turning them all over to the Taliban. 0.57

00:35:55.000 And because they had to pretend that they had created a government worth its salt in Kabul, they couldn't abandon it and leave the city early or they would have been accused of undermining the government and being the reason that it fell.

00:36:08.000 So they had to stick with their lie that everything is fine.

00:36:12.000 Meanwhile, the Taliban are walking right into Kabul because it's four months behind schedule that they're leaving.

00:36:18.000 And you know what else comes from this?

00:36:20.000 With the Taliban getting access to a lot of these weapons, certainly they can't maintain a lot of it, so a lot of it just instantly falls apart.

00:36:27.000 But with a lot of the guns and the materials that are available to just ground forces, it allows the U.S.

00:36:34.000 to have a recurring problem and reason to be in the Middle East.

00:36:38.000 It's also, they are also... Hard to get back to Afghanistan. 1.00

00:36:41.000 Yeah, I mean it's not even necessarily about Afghanistan, it's the reporting that, or the rumors at least, that weapons left behind by the U.S.

00:36:47.000 are being used by Hamas and other Iranian militants.

00:36:50.000 Yeah, that was reporting from the Wall Street Journal.

00:36:52.000 They were reporting about that in June, that that was likely to be happening.

00:36:55.000 And there's also reports that the technology has been reverse-engineered.

00:37:01.000 And like that they're able to build, you know, we saw that video of them trying to fly a helicopter and they're like going in circles or whatever.

00:37:07.000 They can make AK-47s.

00:37:08.000 Yeah, when it comes to the small arms, they're building AK-47s and they're building at least small arms in the mountains of Afghanistan between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

00:37:19.000 There's a whole arms market up there where you can go and buy copies of It's like Louis Vuitton handbags, except AK-47s.

00:37:26.000 Let me tell you a story, though.

00:37:28.000 Here's how my first book, that was this book about all of the terror wars, became a different book, Fool's Errand, about Afghanistan.

00:37:36.000 It's because I got stuck in Afghanistan.

00:37:38.000 Because it's such a huge story, it's 20 years long, but the whole thing takes place east of Persia.

00:37:45.000 And so I knew, people are going to be mad at me that it takes too long before we get to Iraq War 2.

00:37:50.000 So I ended up, you know what, fine, I'll just do a whole book about Afghanistan and I'll get back to the rest of the Middle East later.

00:37:56.000 Because the rest of the whole story of the Bush and Obama years takes place in Mesopotamia and the Levant.

00:38:03.000 What's going on in Afghanistan is, I hate to say it, but almost irrelevant, in a sense.

00:38:09.000 It's separate from the rest of the story, whereas the war in Iraq immediately bleeds to Libya, to Syria, and the rest of the story comes from Bush Jr.' 's invasion of Iraq in 2003.

00:38:21.000 Do you think religion plays a role in high-level military?

00:38:26.000 I'll try to be careful here.

00:38:29.000 Obviously religion plays a role to varying degrees, but do you think that actual like revelatory religious fanaticism is a component?

00:38:36.000 In the Air Force more than other places, but yes, I do.

00:38:39.000 In the Air Force?

00:38:40.000 Yes, you know there's a guy named Mikey Weinstein who sued about this over and over and over again about You know religious freedom inside the services and it's particularly the Air Force has been taken over at least this is my dad is 10 years old here but from what I'd heard before he had real holy rollers who believe that yeah nuclear war will help force Jesus to come back and all this kind of stuff.

00:39:03.000 So there are people who really believe that with power and influence in this country.

00:39:07.000 And it's tough because I think Occam's Razor is always, there's money to be made for the military-industrial complex, there's power to be had, there's grudges, there's generational conflict, but we are, I bring this up because there are people pushing this rumor, and you know, I think Jack kind of took it the wrong way when I said that there's videos of people claiming, you know, Israel is the blessed holy land, members of Congress saying this, and many people who believe that there has to be this war for there to be the messianic era or whatever, I'm not talking about any of these anti-semitic conspiracy theories about world control dominance.

00:39:41.000 I'm talking about people who generally just believe the Bible.

00:39:44.000 Sure.

00:39:44.000 And the Bible says that there'll be this great war.

00:39:47.000 There's been people have been taught there's a forward I think it was forward.com wrote about the red heifer that was born.

00:39:52.000 I'm not saying I believe any of that is true.

00:39:54.000 I'm wondering to what degree does a lot of people are very deeply religious.

00:39:58.000 I'm wondering to what degree that influences their actions.

00:40:01.000 I think it has.

00:40:04.000 I guess I would say in the councils of the highest levels of the Pentagon and the White House, I don't think that they have that much influence.

00:40:12.000 But in the nation, in the country overall, they do.

00:40:15.000 And in the Republican Party and in the Congress, they absolutely do.

00:40:18.000 I mean, look, after September 11th, Colin Powell told George Bush, just like James Baker told his father, Your approval rating is through the roof.

00:40:26.000 We have to do a Palestinian state now.

00:40:29.000 Now is the time.

00:40:30.000 This is one of the main causes of terrorism against our country, is the Israeli suppression of the Palestinians.

00:40:35.000 And Bush was convinced, and they started to do it.

00:40:38.000 And then what happened was, Tom DeLay, the House Majority Whip, from Texas, came to W. Bush and said, you want to be a one-term president like your father?

00:40:48.000 Because I'll turn every born-again evangelical Christian in this country against you and you will be toast. 0.83

00:40:55.000 Why do you think the Palestinians have for so long, even going back to the founding of Israel, rejected a two-state solution?

00:41:01.000 Even the one Bill Clinton proposed, I think in 92, that was really generous and pretty strong and would have given them a lot.

00:41:07.000 We're skipping around a lot here.

00:41:09.000 I'm just asking your opinion on that.

00:41:11.000 Okay, I mean, if you want to go back to the beginning of it, it was because this, what, 11% of the population were claiming to own half the land, more than half the land, and everyone else was going to have to get the hell out of the way.

00:41:24.000 What about all the homes?

00:41:25.000 There have been so many.

00:41:26.000 And they were violently, violently masquerading them and cleansing them from their homes, and so they said no.

00:41:31.000 But then what happened?

00:41:33.000 I mean first of all, well there's a lot of first of all's here, but what happened was Israel made a secret deal with the King of Jordan that he would keep the West Bank and then at the end of the war they had Egypt keep the Gaza Strip just so that the Palestinians could not have their state. 0.75

00:41:52.000 So quite contrary to this myth that Israel has done nothing but try to give the Palestinians independence all this time.

00:41:59.000 I'm talking about the American proposals.

00:42:02.000 There's been a lot of American proposals.

00:42:03.000 Well that was in 92, but you asked about 48.

00:42:05.000 Right, I'm saying why have they rejected it all along?

00:42:08.000 Like you're saying it's a different reason each time.

00:42:11.000 Well, I mean to skip from 48 to 92 is tough and there's obviously a lot at issue here.

00:42:17.000 If you want to do, let me do the narrative in the broad stroke thing, okay?

00:42:21.000 So picture your map of Israel and Palestine that you have in your head right now.

00:42:25.000 In the 1948 war, Forget morality and normative, just descriptive.

00:42:32.000 Israel won the war and they cleansed 750,000 Palestinians out of what we now call Israel proper within the 67 borders.

00:42:43.000 They pushed them into other nations across the Middle East and they pushed them into the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. 0.97

00:42:51.000 And they took as far as West Jerusalem, okay?

00:42:54.000 Now, regardless of, you know, who you sympathize with or whatever, just factually speaking, That was sustainable.

00:43:04.000 What they created was sustainable in the sense that they created an 80-20 super-duper majority Jewish democracy. 0.93

00:43:12.000 You had 80% Jews, 20% Palestinian, Muslims, and Christians inside Israel.

00:43:18.000 We're talking about now, not the occupied territories.

00:43:20.000 And this is after the Six-Day War?

00:43:22.000 This is after the... Wasn't that 67?

00:43:24.000 I'm talking before 67.

00:43:25.000 Oh, I thought you were talking about 67.

00:43:26.000 Okay.

00:43:26.000 No, so 67 is next, right?

00:43:26.000 I thought you were talking about 67.

00:43:28.000 Oh yeah, no, so 67 is next, right?

00:43:30.000 Okay, so before 67, they had created essentially this 80-20 super-duper majority Jewish democracy. 0.86

00:43:39.000 Then in the 67 war, which was started by Israel, they claimed it was preemptive.

00:43:44.000 Regardless, Israel won the war.

00:43:47.000 The Palestinians, of course, had nothing to do with it. 0.93

00:43:49.000 They were just stuck in the middle.

00:43:52.000 Um, but Israel beat Jordan and Egypt and Syria in that war, and they took the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

00:44:00.000 And you could say, guys, that look, they really de facto annexed all of Gaza and the West Bank then.

00:44:09.000 Yeah, Egypt was pissed for sure. 0.90

00:44:11.000 But they kept all the people.

00:44:13.000 So unlike in 1948 where they drove all the people off their land and created this 80-20 super-duper majority Jewish state. 0.96

00:44:23.000 They let everyone stay in their homes.

00:44:26.000 They couldn't force them all out.

00:44:27.000 They actually did force 235,000 people out of their homes, more out of their homes.

00:44:34.000 But they still, overall, they kept the people of the West Bank. 0.96

00:44:36.000 So they're essentially kidnapped now, right?

00:44:38.000 So they were conquered.

00:44:41.000 Were they kidnapped or they were let to stay where they lived?

00:44:44.000 Well, it's sort of the same thing in a sense.

00:44:47.000 I mean, it's a turn of phrase here that I'm using, but what I'm trying to tell you is that the Palestinian people have had nothing like independence this whole time.

00:44:58.000 They've been under the occupation of Israel, first under Jordan and Egypt, and then under Israel since 67.

00:45:08.000 Okay, so when like Ben Shapiro, for example, or my friend here last night on Twitter says, well, what would we do if the Mexicans were attacking us across our international border here?

00:45:19.000 Cartels.

00:45:20.000 Well, even then.

00:45:21.000 We'd do nothing because we are being attacked by cartels and we do nothing.

00:45:27.000 We let 7 million people in.

00:45:28.000 We open the border for them. 0.99

00:45:29.000 We kiss them on the cheeks.

00:45:31.000 We give them Xboxes and tents, we let them populate Central Park.

00:45:35.000 All right, let's do the southern border in a minute.

00:45:38.000 But so, unlike in the Ben Shapiro analogy, which everybody's heard a million times, there is no international border here.

00:45:47.000 Most people, I'm not saying in this room, but I just mean in America, generally speaking, if you say the Israelis and the Palestinians, Well, it sounds like the Palestinians already have a country, because everybody has a country.

00:45:59.000 And you just called them Palestinians, so they must be from the country called Palestine, right?

00:46:04.000 Etc.

00:46:05.000 No.

00:46:05.000 You got a bug right behind you on your chair there, buddy.

00:46:08.000 Oh yeah, those little stink bugs, they do their thing. 1.00

00:46:10.000 He is actually cute.

00:46:11.000 Friendly little guy.

00:46:12.000 He was over here for a while.

00:46:13.000 So what happened was, um... The, uh... Blasted him!

00:46:20.000 He's alive though, I just blew him off with the... So, so...

00:46:23.000 Since 67, they've been under occupation.

00:46:26.000 Now, David Ben-Gurion, the first Prime Minister, said, this is crazy!

00:46:30.000 We shouldn't do this!

00:46:31.000 We should let them go right now!

00:46:33.000 We don't want to, essentially, in a way, again, except my turn of phrase, import, by expanding their territory, they're, in a sense, importing this massive population of Palestinian Muslims and Christians that they don't want. 1.00

00:46:47.000 And so David Ben-Gurion... Well, nobody wants them.

00:46:48.000 Jordan doesn't want them.

00:46:50.000 Egypt doesn't want them.

00:46:51.000 No one wants them.

00:46:52.000 Well, and that's partially because if the Israeli Jews are able to cleanse all of historic Palestine of all their Muslim population, then they lose all their claim to their holy sites. 0.96

00:47:03.000 It's their land that they want to keep. 0.52

00:47:05.000 They were the ones who were there first.

00:47:07.000 They're the ones being cleansed from their land by the Israelis. 1.00

00:47:10.000 Well, first means they were living there all along.

00:47:15.000 And for generations back into antiquity, when a bunch of Russians and Lithuanians and Germans and New Yorkers showed up and said the land belonged to them.

00:47:25.000 Antiquity?

00:47:27.000 Yeah, into ancient times.

00:47:29.000 In fact, here, I'm glad this has come up because I've got a great quote for you here.

00:47:33.000 I've been talking about this lately, but I had forgotten what the actual source was.

00:47:36.000 But the actual source is David Ben-Gurion himself.

00:47:40.000 You're saying that Muslims always had this land.

00:47:46.000 Well, they had been there.

00:47:47.000 That's right, because here's why.

00:47:49.000 Because when the Muslims came and took over that land, they did not cleanse the land of the people who lived there. 0.99

00:47:56.000 all and they did not invaded with a giant occupying forced to replace them all they did was take them over and tax them and then the deal was if you convert to islam you get it uh... tax cut basically pay less and so the local people all converted to Islam.

00:48:17.000 By force.

00:48:18.000 Essentially, by coercion.

00:48:20.000 Right.

00:48:20.000 But wait, so these are the same people who are the descendants of the ancient Hebrews and the source for this is David Ben-Gurion himself.

00:48:28.000 Okay, this is from Sheldon Richman's book which we published at the Institute and Sheldon, my good friend, was raised Jewish and Zionist until he learned all of this stuff and he wrote this great book, Coming to Palestine, about it.

00:48:41.000 And on page 11 and 12 here, he quotes David Ben-Gurion and his partner Yitzhak Ben-Zvi, who is Israel's second president and who was also a professional historian.

00:48:54.000 And they wrote a book in 1918 called Eretz Israel in the Past and in the Present.

00:49:00.000 And in there, I won't read you the whole quote, but in there they describe in detail, Ben-Gurion says, the ancient Hebrews never left.

00:49:08.000 So you can't take a farmer from his soil.

00:49:11.000 They were there the whole time.

00:49:12.000 And so what was happening was the descendants of the ancient Hebrews who had stayed in Palestine were being replaced by the descendants of the ancient Hebrews who'd gone off to Europe and then their descendants came home.

00:49:25.000 As though there's no statute of limitations.

00:49:28.000 And 3,000 years later, you can come and say, this is my land, you can't live here.

00:49:34.000 But if the argument is one people conquering another people, then all you're arguing now is that other people are conquering other people, right?

00:49:40.000 Well, that's right.

00:49:42.000 I'm not okay with any of it, but I understand it happened, and I wonder what the solutions would be.

00:49:48.000 Look, I mean, all we're trying to do here is describe the reality of the situation, Tim.

00:49:52.000 Most of the time, again, if you listen to Ben Shapiro, which many people do, you would think there already was some kind of two-state solution, and now the nation-state of Palestine has sent its terrorist forces to attack and invade Israel, when that's not what happened.

00:50:06.000 What happened was, essentially, Indians broke out of their reservation.

00:50:12.000 And attack the people in town.

00:50:13.000 And that's not a fight between sovereigns, that's a fight essentially between refugees in a prison camp versus the nation-state that conquered them.

00:50:22.000 And when you at least explain... It's against the population because they did go after innocent people.

00:50:26.000 That's right, of course they did.

00:50:27.000 And let's talk about that in just a second.

00:50:30.000 But just overall, just the situation of who's attacking who.

00:50:34.000 And the relative power.

00:50:36.000 Like, if America went to war with Mexico, that wouldn't be a fair fight, but at least they have a national government and a national army.

00:50:42.000 That's different than if we just start carpet bombing the Navajo reservation out in Arizona. 0.97

00:50:49.000 I mean, imagine some Indians in the reservation out west going to town and massacre a thousand Anglos. 1.00

00:50:58.000 Do we carpet bomb the reservation? 0.87

00:50:59.000 Or we find the people who are responsible and their commanders who sent them?

00:51:04.000 If the Navajo massacred a thousand Americans off the reservation? 0.79

00:51:08.000 Yeah. 0.98

00:51:09.000 They'd be federally occupied.

00:51:10.000 What would we do?

00:51:10.000 They'd wipe out the reservation.

00:51:12.000 No, no, we would not.

00:51:13.000 No, we would not.

00:51:14.000 No.

00:51:16.000 Yeah, we would.

00:51:17.000 We would find the individuals responsible and the men who sent them and we would hold them to account.

00:51:23.000 A thousand Americans?

00:51:24.000 They would be prosecuted in criminal court.

00:51:27.000 We killed a million people in Iraq.

00:51:31.000 We massacred everybody at Waco and Ruby Ridge for far less.

00:51:34.000 This is not an endorsement of it.

00:51:36.000 And look, they killed a hell of a lot of Indians at Wounded Knee, too.

00:51:39.000 And in Second Wounded Knee.

00:51:41.000 However, okay, let me rephrase it.

00:51:42.000 Would you support Would you support carpet bombing an Indian reservation over an atrocity when you know good and damned well that the FBI and the Marshals Service can handle this?

00:51:56.000 No. 0.98

00:51:57.000 You're gonna send in the military and you know you're gonna kill innocent people? 0.83

00:52:01.000 If you're saying that the Navajo Nation, which struggles to have electricity and refrigeration just to afford- Like the people of Gaza? 0.99

00:52:09.000 No, like the people of the Navajo Nation, the Navajo Hopi Reservation, right?

00:52:13.000 Like there's solar panel structures to keep refrigerators going to make sure that they have insulin, the insulin stays cold.

00:52:21.000 If you're saying that these people, if they, if like there was a, if there was a militia to the point where they had a militia and they decided to murder a thousand Americans, I think that would, first of all, that would be really shocking and I would think very long and hard about the No, I wouldn't worry what they were upset about, but I would.

00:52:40.000 You would wonder what they were so upset about.

00:52:43.000 Let me answer your question.

00:52:44.000 No, I wouldn't worry what they were upset about.

00:52:47.000 But I would...

00:52:48.000 Well, maybe Hillary Clinton sold their uranium to the Russians and they all got cancer and 0.99

00:52:53.000 they're actually upset and got something to fight about.

00:52:56.000 Let me literally answer the question instead of just going back and forth.

00:53:01.000 If the Navajo Nation mounted a raid that killed 1,000 Americans, it's not some arbitrary question of carpet bombing them.

00:53:07.000 It's a question of military capabilities, what we expect in terms of future actions against us, and what amounts to justice.

00:53:14.000 I would be quite concerned with a carpet bomb on the Navajo Reservation because they don't have support from Iran or they don't have access to rockets. 0.99

00:53:22.000 We're not being bombed by them consistently.

00:53:26.000 Rockets aren't launching out of various areas.

00:53:28.000 We don't need to do that.

00:53:29.000 Yes, the marshals and U.S.

00:53:31.000 forces could go in there.

00:53:32.000 But even if they were armed with rockets, I mean, look, we call them rockets because you don't dare call them missiles because they're not real missiles and they didn't get shipped from Iran.

00:53:39.000 They made them out of water pipes, right?

00:53:42.000 These are, you know, barely amount to Katyusha rockets.

00:53:47.000 Look, the reason it's so important that we talk about the difference between, you know, Whether we're talking about a sovereign nation or an Indian reservation, what you're supposed to take from that is everybody in this country knows that the great white father back east, Joe Biden, and his armed forces have one billion times the strength and the power of any Indians on any reservation, and that if they did break out and commit some terrible atrocity, that Uncle Sam

00:54:19.000 ought to be able to negotiate a peaceful solution from here.

00:54:23.000 And again, the individuals responsible would be prosecuted in court.

00:54:28.000 It wouldn't be a war.

00:54:30.000 They would go to court and then they'd be hanged.

00:54:32.000 Michael Reinold.

00:54:33.000 And was he given his day in court?

00:54:35.000 Who's that?

00:54:35.000 The guy who shot Aaron Danielson in Portland.

00:54:38.000 I don't know.

00:54:38.000 I mean, the Branch Davidians didn't get their day in court either, but they should have.

00:54:42.000 They should have.

00:54:43.000 I do not expect the U.S.

00:54:44.000 government to be honest and bear integrity when dealing with these things.

00:54:49.000 Did people of Iraq get a fair trial after 9-11? 0.91

00:54:53.000 The U.S.

00:54:54.000 just decided to lie, to wage war overseas, which resulted in untold deaths, and we're still pissed off about it.

00:55:02.000 It was an insane move that we went to Afghanistan and Iraq over 9-11.

00:55:06.000 9-11 was an atrocity for this country.

00:55:10.000 Everybody knows that, and 3,000 people lost their lives.

00:55:13.000 The stories that come out of 9-11 are stories of great heroism, which inspire, but the whole day was just so horrifying, and the reaction was just untold more dead with lies.

00:55:24.000 The US did not have a fair day in court.

00:55:27.000 I fully expect evil actions should something like that occur.

00:55:31.000 I wish it was.

00:55:32.000 Yeah, but dude, you're talking about a bunch of Egyptians and Saudi nationals who hijacked planes working for a foreign terrorist group.

00:55:39.000 Right.

00:55:42.000 We're talking about Indians on the reservation because we're talking about Israel and the Palestinians.

00:55:46.000 That's not the same as Al-Qaeda attacking us on an international jihad.

00:55:51.000 The point about bringing up the Navajo is not to impugn the Navajo, it's to point out that they are already lit! 0.98

00:56:00.000 They're already beaten.

00:56:02.000 They live in a concentration camp under the total control of the United States government.

00:56:07.000 But they could leave!

00:56:08.000 Hold on, like... Well, no, look, it's not a perfect analogy, but I'm just saying the relative power versus the Indians on the res versus the US federal government means if something very terrible happens, the onus should be on the American National authorities to resolve it peacefully from there.

00:56:29.000 Not to call in the army to wipe out a bunch of innocent men, women, and children.

00:56:34.000 And look at the history of Israel and Palestine here, where they've had problems with terrorism from the leftists, from the nationalists, from the Islamists, the whole time.

00:56:44.000 And how do they handle it?

00:56:45.000 They went in and they get them one at a time.

00:56:47.000 It's only since Netanyahu that they do these massive bombing campaigns.

00:56:51.000 You can go in, again we're talking about a reservation, you can go in and pick these guys off one at a time.

00:56:56.000 So you think the response from the Hamas attack would be for Israel to do like strategic incursion with forces to remove Hamas?

00:57:03.000 Yes, that's what AOC said.

00:57:06.000 I don't care about that. 0.99

00:57:07.000 Listen, what you just said was that America got all emotional and did a bunch of stupid wrong things after September 11th. 0.97

00:57:14.000 Israel ought to listen to you, and they ought to not do that. 1.00

00:57:18.000 They ought to be smart.

00:57:19.000 And look, I wrote an article a couple of weeks ago, and we do need to get into why Netanyahu likes Hamas so much and supported them in Palestine.

00:57:28.000 Because that's a huge part of this, okay?

00:57:30.000 Because we keep getting distracted off our points, and probably that's mostly my fault.

00:57:35.000 And hell, now I forgot what I was going to say about that.

00:57:39.000 You were leading to the comment, the link you sent, which is something that I was going to read out.

00:57:45.000 Oh, the reaction.

00:57:46.000 Yes, the reaction.

00:57:47.000 Saul Alinsky stuff.

00:57:49.000 You guys are familiar with Saul Alinsky, the leftist radical community organizer guy, right?

00:57:54.000 Page 74 of Rules for Radicals says that in all asymmetric political action, The action is in the reaction of the opposition, right?

00:58:04.000 So like Bin Laden has a group of 400 bandits, he's trying to take on the superpower. 0.86

00:58:09.000 How do you do it?

00:58:10.000 You get the superpower to kill itself, right?

00:58:13.000 You give them an opportunity to go wild and do something self-destructive, okay?

00:58:18.000 In this case, Hamas was trying, and probably there are people who are siding with the Palestinians who might not want to hear this part of it, The reason that Hamas committed the atrocity that they committed. 0.69

00:58:30.000 You mean on October 7th?

00:58:32.000 Yes, on October 7th.

00:58:33.000 Which by the way, an extended family member of mine was abducted and murdered by Hamas in that atrocity. 0.75

00:58:40.000 Condolences.

00:58:42.000 And by the way, my wife almost would have died on September 11th, except she was homesick at her parents' house.

00:58:47.000 But she had an office in the tower and would have been killed on September 11th. 0.91

00:58:51.000 Okay? 0.92

00:58:52.000 So I don't have any love or sympathy for these armed Islamist murderers. 0.98

00:58:56.000 That's exactly what they are. 0.98

00:58:58.000 Okay?

00:58:59.000 But they're not just devils.

00:59:01.000 And they're not just angry children.

00:59:04.000 And Mohammed didn't come from hell to give them instructions to do a bad thing.

00:59:09.000 These are human men and they're fighting about politics.

00:59:12.000 So why'd they do it?

00:59:13.000 So why they did it was to provoke Netanyahu into doing exactly what he's doing now.

00:59:21.000 Carpet-bombing the Gaza Strip, slaughtering Gazan-Palestinian civilians by the thousands of innocents.

00:59:28.000 So Hamas knew that this would result in a massacre of their own people.

00:59:31.000 Hamas wanted that. 0.91

00:59:33.000 That's exactly right.

00:59:34.000 Let me finish now.

00:59:36.000 Real quick, one point for your question.

00:59:39.000 Of course Hamas knew.

00:59:40.000 Right, of course they did.

00:59:41.000 Motivations aside, there's no other reaction.

00:59:44.000 Not just they knew.

00:59:44.000 This is what they wanted to happen.

00:59:49.000 Absolutely.

00:59:50.000 Because with the reaction, then comes all the counter reactions, right?

00:59:55.000 So how do we start the show at the top of the show today?

00:59:58.000 America hits Iranian sites in Syria because they had sent drones after our guys in Syria because of what Israel is doing in Gaza, right?

01:00:10.000 At the Lebanese border with Hezbollah, you got so far just pot shots going off back and forth, but that could quickly escalate.

01:00:16.000 Wait, wait, wait.

01:00:17.000 Now every Shiite militia in Iraq has to take a stand.

01:00:20.000 The Ayatollah in Tehran gets to get up there and beat his chest.

01:00:24.000 Now every Sunni king... 1.00

01:00:27.000 In Arabia, all of the American sock puppets, Mohammed bin Salman and Mohammed bin Zayed in Saudi and in UAE, they all have to take a stand. 0.51

01:00:38.000 Are they going to be silent?

01:00:40.000 Because they're good little sock puppets of the empire?

01:00:43.000 Or are they going to agree with 100% of the public opinion of the people in their countries?

01:00:48.000 This could destabilize the whole region.

01:00:50.000 It's already... Remember when I was here a year and a half ago, we talked about the Abraham Accords.

01:00:55.000 And what was the purpose of the Abraham Accords? 0.72

01:00:58.000 This was the Netanyahu doctrine that said we can, with enough American tax money, we can make peace, well not peace, but we can finally permanently normalize relations with Bahrain, UAE, Saudi, Sudan and Morocco.

01:01:20.000 That's right.

01:01:20.000 And we can do this without Making peace with the Palestinians.

01:01:25.000 That's right.

01:01:26.000 And that meant the Palestinians pissed off and so they took a couple of years to plan this attack. 0.98

01:01:31.000 That's right.

01:01:32.000 And then look what happened.

01:01:33.000 They got the reaction that they wanted.

01:01:35.000 And now all of the Abraham Accords are in jeopardy. 0.73

01:01:40.000 Let's get real honest about this.

01:01:42.000 Even if you absolutely love Israel, and I don't know any reason why not to, it's a land full of civilians. 1.00

01:01:48.000 I love them just as much as everybody else.

01:01:51.000 You would not wish Netanyahu on the people of Israel.

01:01:58.000 He has been the longest serving Prime Minister in Israeli history.

01:02:03.000 Longer than David Ben-Gurion.

01:02:07.000 They call him King Bibi.

01:02:11.000 Think of September 11th had happened in Bill Clinton's third term.

01:02:15.000 His approval rating would have gone down, right?

01:02:18.000 Bush was off the hook because he'd only been on the job for eight measly months before that attack happened on his watch, right?

01:02:26.000 This is happening in Netanyahu's fifth term, okay?

01:02:30.000 This is his policy finally come to fruition.

01:02:33.000 It was called the Netanyahu Doctrine. 0.77

01:02:36.000 And the Netanyahu Doctrine said, Unlike Yitzhak Rabin, who one of his fans assassinated in 1995.

01:02:44.000 Unlike Yitzhak Rabin, who said, we want to demonize Iran so that we can negotiate and make peace with the Arabs, including the Palestinians.

01:02:54.000 The Netanyahu doctrine said no.

01:02:56.000 We'll make peace with the, demonize Iran, make peace with the Arabs, but not with the Palestinians. 1.00

01:03:02.000 And you can hear him just three weeks ago in his United Nations address.

01:03:06.000 He explains exactly the thinking behind this.

01:03:09.000 He says, they always said that we could never normalize relations with the rest of the nations of the region and therefore then have peace with the Palestinians unless we make peace with the Palestinians first and give up a Palestinian state first and only then will we be able to get along but we showed them and we're so smart and we made these deals without giving up a Palestinian state and he said but we will have peace and what he's essentially saying between the lines is

01:03:40.000 We're gonna have the peace of total victory here.

01:03:43.000 The Palestinians will get nothing and they'll learn to like it. 1.00

01:03:46.000 They'll never have independence and they'll never have freedom.

01:03:49.000 I got some trivia for you.

01:03:51.000 And then this happened two weeks after he said that.

01:03:54.000 Or one week after he said that at the UN.

01:03:57.000 Look at me, I got away with it everybody!

01:03:58.000 I got some trivia for you guys.

01:04:03.000 I got some trivia for you.

01:04:04.000 What does this mean?

01:04:06.000 That's peace, this is victory.

01:04:08.000 Right, but the origin of this sand sign is the same thing. 0.90

01:04:11.000 F you.

01:04:12.000 It's making the V for victory.

01:04:14.000 And so what happens is, after the battle, when they hold up the two fingers, we call it peace.

01:04:19.000 Why?

01:04:20.000 Because you killed all your enemies.

01:04:21.000 The peace has been achieved.

01:04:24.000 We've won.

01:04:25.000 And so when people are like, peace out!

01:04:27.000 The origin of that is after your enemy was killed, you held up the V for victory.

01:04:31.000 I always thought that this was FU because the archers would hold up two fingers because when they got caught, they would cut off one of the fingers so they couldn't pull the... That's where this comes from.

01:04:43.000 Which people now say peace, but the peace is... It's peace after you win.

01:04:47.000 So this brings us back to the clean break, okay?

01:04:49.000 Because what was the purpose of getting rid of Saddam so that we can weaken Hezbollah? 1.00

01:04:56.000 It was so that we don't have to abide by the Oslo Agreement and negotiate an independent Palestinian state.

01:05:04.000 But if we screw over the Palestinians while we still have Hezbollah on our northern border, then that's an extra pressure. 0.97

01:05:11.000 And so the whole point of the clean break strategy Was, we need to get America to go to war in Iraq for us, so that we don't have to give justice to the Palestinians! 0.94

01:05:22.000 I wanted to ask, when you mentioned Hamas news was going to happen, do you think they knew... I mean, you're outlining this story of dominoes falling over, which could lead to World War III.

01:05:34.000 And the first thing I thought was, if you are Hamas in Gaza, you're thinking World War III is our only path to any kind of change.

01:05:42.000 Well, look, again, I think World War III is a little hyperbolic.

01:05:45.000 I don't foresee Russia getting involved, although it could happen, something like that.

01:05:49.000 We're already in a massive proxy war against Russia right now, as we all know, which is horrifying and terrifying.

01:05:57.000 But they're not that close with the Ayatollah.

01:05:59.000 You know, Russia and Iran, they have their own tensions going back, and they've been getting along okay.

01:06:04.000 And Iran has been sending drones for the Russian war effort and that kind of thing.

01:06:08.000 But they don't have like a treaty of alliance where Russia would go to war for Iran.

01:06:12.000 And quite frankly, I think worst case scenario here, the war spreads to Lebanon and possibly Iraq.

01:06:22.000 But I really think that the Americans and the Ayatollahs guys too have got to be cautioning him.

01:06:30.000 And I think the American military has got to be telling Joe Biden how badly they do not want to fight Iran. 0.53

01:06:37.000 You put that map up earlier there.

01:06:41.000 What, three, four times the size of Afghanistan?

01:06:44.000 Afghanistan is the size of Texas, okay? 1.00

01:06:46.000 People don't understand this, too.

01:06:49.000 That's why I say a geography lesson.

01:06:50.000 And this is mountains, too.

01:06:51.000 Topography lesson counts, too.

01:06:53.000 This isn't flat desert like Iraq.

01:06:55.000 These are mountains.

01:06:55.000 You cannot win here, man.

01:06:57.000 Mountains, massive, with massive air defense.

01:06:59.000 The U.S.

01:06:59.000 military doctrine is defined by its air superiority.

01:07:04.000 I don't know how much I believe that there is a war with Iran coming, like whether cooler heads will prevail or not, but I strongly believe that if it does happen, the U.S. 0.96

01:07:16.000 will justify using tactical nuclear weapons.

01:07:19.000 Because they'll want to take out the oil reserves, because that's what Lindsey Graham's after. 1.00

01:07:24.000 Or they'll use MOABs as big as they possibly can.

01:07:27.000 What do you make of Iran having trained Hamas fighters?

01:07:35.000 Well, look, I mean, they have a real interest in disrupting the situation in Israel and Palestine. 0.95

01:07:42.000 Iran was training Hamas fighters before they were even Hamas, like back in the late 80s, when Hamas was essentially forming in Lebanon with Hezbollah.

01:07:52.000 So, well, no.

01:07:54.000 Hezbollah was training Hamas. 0.52

01:07:55.000 And so was the Iranians. 0.99

01:07:58.000 Yeah, and they're part of the Muslim Brotherhood. 0.94

01:07:59.000 And I want to recommend to you and to everyone listening a great book by Robert Dreyfus called Devil's Game, How the United States Helped Unleash Fundamentalist Islam.

01:08:10.000 So it's the US's fault that the extremists inflame us?

01:08:14.000 Yes, because America inherited all of the European and the Japanese world empires after World War II.

01:08:22.000 America is the dominant force in the Middle East, even though we're the middle part of North America.

01:08:28.000 So we created the people that hate us now?

01:08:30.000 I'm just trying to understand what you're saying.

01:08:33.000 Not created in the like oversimplified sense.

01:08:37.000 But yes, the enemy in the Cold War was first the commies and second the nationalists.

01:08:45.000 And who's opposed to both the commies and the nationalists?

01:08:49.000 The Islamists. 0.97

01:08:51.000 And so America and Britain and Saudi Arabia spent billions spreading fundamentalist Islam throughout the region. 0.75

01:09:00.000 And not just the Wahhabism of Saudi, but the Muslim Brotherhood essentially was meant to disrupt all secular politics in the region for generations and did so. 0.99

01:09:12.000 That was the purpose of it, and that was why America backed the Muslim Brotherhood. 0.99

01:09:16.000 That was a huge part of the reason, of course, that America and Saudi worked together to send a bunch of guys, proto-Al Qaeda guys, to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 1980s.

01:09:26.000 You mean the Mujahideen, those guys?

01:09:29.000 That's right.

01:09:29.000 Well, because, see, there was the Afghan Mujahideen, but then there was the Arab-Afghan army, and these were mercenaries.

01:09:35.000 Again, look at the map.

01:09:37.000 All of these guys are Arabs, then you have Persia, and then you have the Afghans who are Hazaras and Tajiks and Uzbeks and Pashtuns, right? 0.84

01:09:46.000 They're not Arabs at all. 0.99

01:09:47.000 So they sent, they got all these Arabs to come and sent them to fight in Afghanistan, including the guys who were the leaders of what became Islamic Jihad and Al-Qaeda that ended up turning against the United States. 0.80

01:10:00.000 So, and in fact, most people don't know this, but throughout the 1990s, when Al-Qaeda was already attacking the United States, Bill Clinton kept supporting them anyway.

01:10:10.000 He supported them in Bosnia, in Kosovo, and in Chechnya.

01:10:15.000 And you might remember when Vladimir Putin declared war on Ukraine two and a half, or a year and a half ago.

01:10:20.000 In his declaration of war, he said, and I like the way he did this too, because he knew it was going to sound like conspiracy stuff.

01:10:28.000 So he phrased it like this.

01:10:29.000 He goes, come on, let's be adults about this.

01:10:34.000 We know what you and Britain were doing in Chechnya. 0.82

01:10:38.000 Right?

01:10:38.000 That was true.

01:10:40.000 America was supporting Bin Ladenite headshoppers, suicide bomber murderers against the Russians. 0.79

01:10:46.000 Bin Laden was hanging out in Brooklyn, I mean.

01:10:47.000 Well, and his men were essentially divided, right?

01:10:53.000 They were motivated to attack the United States by, one, our stationing of troops in Saudi Arabia, two, in order to bomb Iraq from 1990 all the way through. 0.55

01:11:05.000 Okay, through the entire Clinton years, and then support for Israel in their occupations of Palestine and at that time of southern Lebanon, as well as support for all the dictatorships in the region.

01:11:17.000 So even though Bill Clinton was backing them in Kosovo and in Chechnya, they were still coming for us anyway. 0.95

01:11:25.000 He was using them, but he wasn't buying their loyalty.

01:11:28.000 And so I'm not like a 9-11 truth-teller here saying the CIA had them attack us.

01:11:32.000 That's not right.

01:11:33.000 But what happened was they were too clever by half, just like Netanyahu.

01:11:37.000 They think they're so smart, we're gonna back these terrorists, and then, I'll tell you, I got these great quotes for you guys, okay?

01:11:45.000 This one is from the American Pentagon in the years before September 11th.

01:11:49.000 They said, terrorism is a small price to pay for being a superpower.

01:11:57.000 Okay?

01:11:57.000 And what they were thinking was, come on, somebody sets off a truck bomb at an embassy in Africa or something, who cares?

01:12:03.000 We get to rule the world!

01:12:05.000 Okay?

01:12:05.000 Here's a quote just like that, Libby, that you can find from Benjamin Netanyahu addressing the leaders of his party, the Likud.

01:12:13.000 And he's talking about anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas in Gaza.

01:12:27.000 Because they will never deal, but then he said, we control the height of the flame.

01:12:34.000 Right?

01:12:35.000 It's that same imperial arrogance of the Bill Clinton years.

01:12:39.000 That we can use these people to Keep things the way we want them, whether to fight our enemies or to divide and conquer our subject peoples. 0.96

01:12:48.000 But then, what are they going to do?

01:12:51.000 Right?

01:12:51.000 In fact, one more quote was from a female Israeli soldier who warned her superior officers that Hamas is training.

01:13:00.000 They're obviously training hard.

01:13:02.000 They're preparing something.

01:13:03.000 Guys, NBC?

01:13:04.000 One sec.

01:13:05.000 Her boss told her, they're punks.

01:13:07.000 They won't do anything.

01:13:11.000 NBC Boston is reporting that the Lewiston main shooter, Robert Carter, has been located and is dead. 0.98

01:13:18.000 Oh damn, where is he? 0.98

01:13:20.000 Uh, they, I don't know. 0.99

01:13:21.000 I'm just looking at it right now.

01:13:22.000 This is, uh, the man suspected in Wednesday's massacre that killed 18 people in Lewiston, Maine has been found dead.

01:13:28.000 Sources told NBC Boston investigators Friday night, Robert Carr was the subject of days long of a day's long manhood that followed mass shootings at the just-in-time recreation bowling alley and shmemigans bar and grill.

01:13:40.000 Shmeggies. 0.99

01:13:41.000 Shmeggies. 0.99

01:13:41.000 All right. 0.99

01:13:41.000 You're from New Hampshire. 0.99

01:13:43.000 You should know how to pronounce things.

01:13:45.000 It's literally shmemigans. 0.74

01:13:47.000 I know, it's very weird.

01:13:49.000 It's Schmeggy's.

01:13:50.000 Specific details are not available immediately, but the source told NBC 10 Boston investigators that there is no longer a threat in Maine, as Card has been located and is deceased.

01:13:59.000 And that is literally just popped up like five minutes ago.

01:14:03.000 I just wanted to say, you know, because we talk a lot about this deep history with the Middle East and U.S.

01:14:09.000 involvement, and it kind of feels like A lot of the conversations I've had, I'm always just like, someone will make a bunch of points about, well, Libby says these people hate us, and then you're talking about these operations, and I'm just like, would we not benefit from not being involved?

01:14:26.000 Is it better for us to just totally not be involved?

01:14:30.000 And so when I hear a lot of moral arguments, well, what they're doing this, and they're doing this, and then the Israel-Palestine stuff specifically, I'm kind of like, my response is, I'm America.

01:14:40.000 I don't know why we're arguing the morality of foreign nations that are in a generational conflict when we should be helping our people here.

01:14:47.000 The answer is because America is the world empire, Tim, and this is a huge contradiction, right?

01:14:51.000 This is the new world.

01:14:53.000 Our ancestors came here so they could mind their own business and be free.

01:14:58.000 And yet, America came out on top at the end of the Second World War. 0.51

01:15:02.000 The rest of the industrialized world was burnt to the ground, and so America had, what, half the GDP of the planet, and then they took full advantage and they created a world empire.

01:15:12.000 They justified it in the name of containing the Soviet Union, and then when the Soviet Union ceased to exist 30 years ago, what'd they do?

01:15:20.000 Quit and go get a real job?

01:15:22.000 No.

01:15:23.000 They went and they expanded to the Middle East, they expanded into Eastern Europe, and they picked a fight with Al-Qaeda, and they picked a fight with Russia, and now here we are!

01:15:32.000 Same as they expanded... By the way, you guys are such China hawks on here, but who started the China pivot?

01:15:37.000 That was Barack Hussein Obama and Hillary Clinton, who said, now's time to pick a fight with China.

01:15:43.000 That was their policy.

01:15:44.000 I just want to...

01:15:46.000 You know, my view, and it's probably naive, it's probably ignorant, whatever, but my view is a tremendous opportunity of the fall of the Soviet Union for trade agreements and not war.

01:15:55.000 Right!

01:15:56.000 To say, hey, you know, you look at what's going on in Eastern Europe and we keep hearing from the establishment press and from the neocon neolib uniparty that it's an unprovoked invasion of Ukraine and Russia, oh come on!

01:16:09.000 NATO expansion... That's my book, it's called Provoked.

01:16:13.000 It's about how they provoked it.

01:16:14.000 But at the very least, if you want to make the argument that, you know, I was in Ukraine at the start of the protests, which eventually turned into the ousting of Yanukovych, and in the city I talked to many random people.

01:16:26.000 And what did I find?

01:16:27.000 They were very pro-EU.

01:16:29.000 And when I talked to them they say, What I was generally told by a lot of Ukrainians was, you know, Russia wants to create this trade union, they want Ukraine to be a part of it.

01:16:39.000 Ukraine, many Ukrainians don't trust Russia, obviously, because the Soviet Union wasn't even that long ago, so a lot of the older folks are really concerned.

01:16:45.000 And, entering the EU is a major economic lift up, and the Schengen zone, a lot of people want to move, and so that's where we're going.

01:16:53.000 That is all geopolitical dispute and conflict, which results in escalated conflict.

01:16:59.000 The idea that there's no provocation, what the media keeps saying, is just absurd.

01:17:04.000 As long as our military alliances are expanding in a region, there is cause for conflict.

01:17:08.000 Right, you're absolutely right.

01:17:09.000 And look, this isn't just hindsight, okay?

01:17:11.000 This is what all the paleo-conservatives said 30 years ago.

01:17:14.000 Pat Buchanan and, you know, Scott McConnell and all the guys who were like the refugees from the George H.W. 0.96

01:17:21.000 Bush Republican Party at that time.

01:17:23.000 Ron Paul ran for president in 1988, saying we need to completely back out of the old world altogether, and was absolutely right. 1.00

01:17:32.000 And, you know, what happened?

01:17:33.000 H.W.

01:17:34.000 Bush took full advantage.

01:17:36.000 He lied to the Russians.

01:17:38.000 He knew the plan was to expand NATO, and they lied to the Russians and made them believe that they wouldn't expand NATO just to get them out of the way.

01:17:46.000 You know what I love?

01:17:47.000 You're obviously familiar with it.

01:17:48.000 They lied us into Iraq War One as well. 0.78

01:17:50.000 You're obviously familiar with the liberal economic order.

01:17:53.000 So, you know, Ian brings that up quite a bit, and we've pulled up the Council on Foreign Relations website, outlining the liberal economic order, and plainly stating that after World War II, the fears of expanded war and nuclear annihilation led to this idea of the liberal economic order, which is a soft way of saying American empire.

01:17:53.000 Sure.

01:18:11.000 Military bases everywhere, the American world police, and it's an impossibility.

01:18:17.000 Naturally, what you're doing is creating something that becomes the massive target.

01:18:22.000 The U.S.

01:18:23.000 never had the capability of suppressing the rise of any other economic power, though they try.

01:18:27.000 It doesn't happen, and now we're staring at the fourth turning World War III, whatever you want to call it.

01:18:32.000 My favorite part is, you get to the point where you get H.W.

01:18:35.000 Bush saying, what was his quote?

01:18:37.000 We can begin to see a new world order.

01:18:39.000 Now, you get a bunch of people complaining about the idea of the New World Order, which literally is a reference to an expansion upon the CFR, the Liberal Economic Order, into a new version of it, which is American World Police, etc.

01:18:53.000 The media runs out full speed screaming, the conspiracy theory of the New World Order, and what I think happens is, a lot of people fall victim to this.

01:19:02.000 There's a legitimate concern over powerful interests internationally, corporate interests and their vassals in government, to create and maintain the liberal economic order and their new version of it.

01:19:16.000 What happens then is... 0.98

01:19:18.000 The media, because these people are easily, they're stupid and they're evil, not every single one, but a lot of them, they will take the legitimate story of the liberal economic order, pull the most absurd claims off the internet, create this psychotic conspiracy theory, and then say, anybody who's saying this believes the crazy conspiracy theory. 0.98

01:19:36.000 To try and discredit the idea that there are people who are actually calmly and rationally saying, you know that thing you've been doing for a long time about trying to set up military bases everywhere to be a world police? 1.00

01:19:44.000 I think it's a bad idea that's going to get us all killed.

01:19:46.000 They say what he actually believes that lizard people have set up a base in the Denver airport. 0.99

01:19:51.000 He's insane. 0.98

01:19:51.000 Don't listen to him. 0.98

01:19:52.000 Right.

01:19:53.000 Look, you're right.

01:19:54.000 And look, the New World Order, when H.W. 0.96

01:19:57.000 Bush said it, what he meant was the era of the American empire and no one can oppose us now.

01:20:01.000 As he put it, what we say goes.

01:20:04.000 And when they say now, they call it the liberal rules-based international order.

01:20:08.000 That's the American empire.

01:20:11.000 But the conspiracy theory is the opposite actually.

01:20:13.000 The conspiracy theory is that ultimately they're going to create a one world federal government under the UN that will then conquer the United States and we'll have Chinese troops everywhere and it'll be like Red Dawn and we'll all be enslaved. 0.90

01:20:24.000 And this is the thing which it's good for getting right-wingers interested in foreign policy and how dangerous all this stuff can be because Look, ultimately, you know, the John Birchers were the big pushers of the New World Order conspiracy, and the lesson that they were preaching basically was the only way to destroy America is to turn it into an overextended empire.

01:20:46.000 Now, from their point of view, it was all deliberate.

01:20:48.000 It was all treason to bring us down.

01:20:50.000 But forget that.

01:20:51.000 Just stick to the point.

01:20:53.000 The only way to bring down America is to turn it into an overextended world empire.

01:20:57.000 You could carpet bomb us with H-bombs, but then there's nothing to take over. 0.98

01:21:00.000 Otherwise, the only way to do it is to drive our national debt up till the dollar breaks.

01:21:06.000 Which is what we're doing right now.

01:21:07.000 So it doesn't have to be a conspiracy.

01:21:09.000 It's bad policy.

01:21:11.000 It's suicide.

01:21:13.000 A lot of people like to talk about the Roman Empire and what caused it to be ripped apart and there are similarities there. 0.98

01:21:20.000 History doesn't repeat its rhymes.

01:21:23.000 And so a lot of people are drawing parallels to all these other historic events.

01:21:27.000 And some people be like, no, no, no, it's not like this one.

01:21:29.000 It's like this one.

01:21:29.000 It's not the Roman Empire.

01:21:30.000 It's more like, you know, the Bolsheviks in Russia.

01:21:32.000 And I'm like, guys, It's a little bit of all of them and that's a big problem.

01:21:35.000 Yeah, it's us.

01:21:37.000 So let's get back to talking about the Palestinians here for a second because You know, people use Hamas and Palestinians interchangeably here.

01:21:45.000 Like, all these people are guilty of the things that Hamas did. 0.97

01:21:48.000 But, I mean, Tim, the reason I'm here right now is because I'm still not over Waco.

01:21:53.000 Okay?

01:21:53.000 Oh, dude, I went there last year.

01:21:56.000 My dad's from there.

01:21:57.000 But like, according to the logic of the people who want to bomb Gaza right now, I'm responsible for Waco. 0.87

01:22:03.000 Because somehow I didn't prevent Bill Clinton from becoming president.

01:22:07.000 And now it's okay to kill me and my family because of the things that Bill Clinton did.

01:22:12.000 That was the logic that Osama bin Laden invoked in his letter to America in 2002.

01:22:18.000 He said, you pay your taxes, you vote in elections, and boy, especially you Americans, always bragging and boasting about How self-governed you are?

01:22:27.000 There's more nuance than that.

01:22:27.000 So then he said he had the right to kill us, which was in fact he was parroting Bill Clinton and Madeleine Albright, who said that they had the right to kill innocent Iraqis in order to force them to rise up and overthrow Saddam Hussein.

01:22:40.000 It's the same sick morality. 0.94

01:22:42.000 We think the price is worth it, as Madeleine Albright said, to kill innocent people to do what we want, to get what we want.

01:22:49.000 I suppose the big question then becomes, what do we do?

01:22:55.000 Well, like, that's why I brought up the maybe- We as Americans, first and foremost, the United States should adopt an absolutely non-interventionist foreign policy.

01:23:06.000 100%.

01:23:06.000 And that means telling the Israelis, you guys are on your own.

01:23:10.000 And this goes back to a point that you raised, I think, before we went on the air.

01:23:13.000 What happens to Israel without the United States? 0.76

01:23:16.000 Israel would be better off without the United States. 0.93

01:23:19.000 As you guys have noticed, everything America touches turns to fire.

01:23:23.000 And I just didn't say a bad word.

01:23:25.000 Israel would be better off without the U.S.? 0.96

01:23:26.000 Yes!

01:23:30.000 Because, look, they're plenty well enough armed to take on any neighboring nation-state.

01:23:34.000 They're friends with Jordan and friends with Egypt.

01:23:37.000 They bomb Syria with impunity once or twice a month for a decade straight now. 0.85

01:23:42.000 Hezbollah has enough of a force probably to keep them out. 0.91

01:23:47.000 I mean, not in a full-scale war.

01:23:48.000 In a full-scale war, Israel would completely destroy them. 0.56

01:23:50.000 But Hezbollah has no real offensive force that threatens Israel.

01:23:54.000 So they're perfectly safe, right?

01:23:57.000 Who's perfectly safe?

01:23:59.000 Israel is perfect. 0.97

01:24:01.000 From foreign nation states, I'm saying now.

01:24:03.000 That was the question, right?

01:24:04.000 Right.

01:24:05.000 I'm just trying to clarify.

01:24:08.000 But by having America there, it's like being a banker on Wall Street and knowing that Alan Greenspan is going to bail you out, right?

01:24:15.000 It's called a moral hazard in economics.

01:24:17.000 They called it the Greenspan put.

01:24:19.000 Right?

01:24:20.000 And what happens is if you're a banker and you know that the Fed is going to bail you out, then you can make all kinds of lousy loans and it doesn't matter because you're going to be made whole.

01:24:29.000 It's the same for like a bratty little kid in the neighborhood who likes to be a bully and pick fights because he knows he has an older brother that's going to bail him out if he gets into a fight with somebody that he can't handle.

01:24:40.000 Right?

01:24:40.000 And so this is the same kind of situation with Israel.

01:24:44.000 If America did not, well look at just the current situation.

01:24:48.000 If Joe Biden didn't sail aircraft carriers right in there and tell Hezbollah, you better not think about it, and tell the government in Iraq, you better keep your militias under control and all that, Israel would already have to scale back their ambition here, right? 0.85

01:25:04.000 So Israel is perfectly safe or Israel would have to scale back their, what do you mean? 0.54

01:25:09.000 Yes, I'm saying that the more violence that Israel commits, and over the decades, the more they refuse to deal in good faith with the people in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, the Palestinian people, the worse situation that they're in.

01:25:26.000 The fact, Libby, that we're having this conversation in 2023 means that Netanyahu's policy is a terrible failure.

01:25:34.000 A hundred percent.

01:25:35.000 No different than if it had been Bill Clinton's third term on September 11th.

01:25:38.000 What should Israel do right now?

01:25:39.000 And what should they have done on October 8th?

01:25:42.000 Well, on October 8th, I think they were still chasing the terrorists back into Gaza.

01:25:48.000 But look, right now, they have the place completely surrounded.

01:25:52.000 Okay?

01:25:52.000 They've called up 300,000 reserves.

01:25:55.000 This is essential.

01:25:55.000 I have an Israeli friend, again, an army veteran who fought in the 2006 war.

01:26:00.000 He says this is like Waco right now.

01:26:02.000 They're completely surrounded.

01:26:04.000 Who is?

01:26:05.000 Gaza? 0.52

01:26:05.000 Gaza! 0.52

01:26:06.000 They're completely under siege.

01:26:08.000 And yes, Hamas is bad, and yes, Koresh is bad, but there's also a bunch of innocent people in there. 0.92

01:26:14.000 And so just wait them out!

01:26:16.000 You've got all the time in the world.

01:26:18.000 There's no reason that you have to go in there like this.

01:26:21.000 And you know, Daryl Cooper, are you guys familiar with Martyr Made, the podcast Martyr Made?

01:26:25.000 Of course.

01:26:26.000 This is my good friend Daryl Cooper.

01:26:27.000 He's so smart about this.

01:26:28.000 We've had him on, I'm pretty sure.

01:26:29.000 He talked about How, for decades, for decades, the way that the Israelis dealt with terrorism in the territories, where they go in there and pick them off one at a time. 0.77

01:26:41.000 You don't have to do a big war like this.

01:26:43.000 How did they kill Sheikh Yassin?

01:26:45.000 They just found him in his car and dropped one bomb on him.

01:26:47.000 I'm not saying that was okay, but I'm saying all other things being equal, The Israelis can pick off the leadership of Hamas.

01:26:56.000 I mean, one at a time, no problem.

01:26:59.000 Because again, this is not some foreign nation.

01:27:01.000 This is an Indian reservation.

01:27:03.000 It's under their control.

01:27:05.000 This is where I always come back to.

01:27:06.000 It's like, I see you guys, we're having an argument over a foreign nation's capabilities of defense, and I'm just like, you want to talk about America?

01:27:14.000 I'm just curious what he was— No, no, no, I'm not casting shade.

01:27:18.000 I'm saying I think a lot of this debate that ends up in politics reverts back to the normative position of We as the United States are concerned and involved in foreign wars, and I'm kind of like, do you want to talk about Burma, Myanmar?

01:27:34.000 Right, I don't.

01:27:35.000 We're not in on that one.

01:27:37.000 Let's not be in on any of them.

01:27:39.000 Myanmar is so closed, it's hard to get any information out of Myanmar.

01:27:44.000 It's horrible.

01:27:45.000 Since 1948, hundreds of thousands of people have died in the region, 12,000 this year.

01:27:50.000 Talk about ethnic cleansing. 0.98

01:27:51.000 Nobody cares.

01:27:52.000 There's one thing that I want to bring up.

01:27:53.000 Because we're not involved in it.

01:27:55.000 Well, not only that, it's not just that.

01:27:58.000 Tim, this goes to a point that you make a lot.

01:28:00.000 You frequently say that the left doesn't have an ideology that's coherent, and to some degree I think you're right, but I really think that the left broadly is just anti-West, right?

01:28:13.000 They're anti-capitalist, they're anti-America, and anything that's going on that is pushing back against Western society, which is why the people that are pro-Palestine, that are very anti-Israel, if they're leftists, the reason is because Israel is ostensibly a democracy and a Western-style country, and so it falls in line with the pushback against the West and the whole decolonization thing.

01:28:39.000 I also think it's because you want to destroy the United States from within, and so we have foreign influence through social media and algorithms.

01:28:46.000 Sure, yeah.

01:28:47.000 And you mentioned they're all anti-west.

01:28:49.000 I'm like, well, we're being gutted from within.

01:28:51.000 Guys, we started this show with a massive protest at Grand Central Station of American Jews who are against this stuff.

01:29:00.000 I'm not saying everyone is, Scott.

01:29:02.000 I'm saying that the people that are that are like I'll tell you I'll tell you Phil look there

01:29:08.000 I'm not pushing back I hear you.

01:29:14.000 No, no, no, it's fine.

01:29:15.000 I was just saying.

01:29:15.000 I just want to shout out to, uh, Elad Eliyahu, who's covering this right now.

01:29:19.000 He's, uh... We're texting right now.

01:29:20.000 He's, uh, uh, uh, Elad is our, uh, um, in-house Bolton bro, neo-conservative, self-proclaimed.

01:29:25.000 True.

01:29:26.000 He is.

01:29:27.000 But, he, he does a really great job asking questions, he doesn't attack people, he asks them honestly what they think and believe, and lets them answer.

01:29:33.000 That's cool.

01:29:34.000 And, you know, he's down here covering it.

01:29:35.000 We're, we're big fans of Elad's work.

01:29:36.000 I mean, people ought to ask themselves, because look, these Jews, almost all American Jews are basically like center-left liberals. 0.97

01:29:42.000 They're not leftist, communist, revolutionary, hate America, whatever, this and that.

01:29:46.000 They're liberal Democrats, almost all of them, right?

01:29:49.000 Like 85, 90% or something like that.

01:29:53.000 They don't want to destroy Western civilization.

01:29:57.000 Forget the college kids don't mean anything.

01:29:59.000 Let's not spend another minute talking about college kids tonight.

01:30:01.000 We're talking about what actually matters in the world here.

01:30:08.000 These Jews are sticking up for the Palestinians because they're being treated unfairly.

01:30:13.000 If you go back to England versus Ireland, you'd see English stick up for the Irish.

01:30:13.000 Right?

01:30:19.000 You didn't see the Irish take the English's side. 0.94

01:30:22.000 Why not?

01:30:22.000 Well, because Ireland wasn't occupying England.

01:30:25.000 It was the English who were the occupying power and who were brutally oppressing innocent civilians. 1.00

01:30:30.000 And so you'd have English from time to time saying, geez, guys, this isn't right.

01:30:35.000 Why would you have millions of American Jews? 0.98

01:30:39.000 Opposed to the system in Israel right now.

01:30:42.000 Well a bunch of it's because it's wrong funded by the same Well funded nothing groups that fund the SPLC and a bunch of other heavy let's maybe group Yeah, the JVA is maybe but you know what what it really is is America so fun what it is is American Jews are causes American Jews are liberals, and they believe in civil rights.

01:31:01.000 And the fact is, the Palestinians have no civil rights and no civil liberties whatsoever. 1.00

01:31:07.000 They would be slaves, except the Israelis don't want them. 1.00

01:31:09.000 They just want rid of them.

01:31:10.000 But they have no rights at all.

01:31:13.000 And these people know that that is wrong, and they're upset about it.

01:31:17.000 They also had Shabbat with Rashida Tlaib after she said that she gets, what, a warm fuzzy feeling when she thinks about the Holocaust?

01:31:24.000 Is that what she said?

01:31:25.000 She said something like that.

01:31:26.000 She said something very similar.

01:31:27.000 I can find it.

01:31:28.000 I am not a fan.

01:31:31.000 I'm a fan of the sentiment of we don't want civilian deaths, but I just keep coming back to the, you know, I would refer, I refer to it as Israel derangement syndrome because for some reason this cause for a lot of people is Paramount.

01:31:48.000 Despite not being us.

01:31:51.000 Despite all the other conflicts in the world.

01:31:53.000 But Tim, as you know, we're implicated in every bit of this.

01:31:56.000 Our government is implicated in every bit of this.

01:31:58.000 People do not get as mad about Sudan.

01:32:00.000 I wrote a book about...

01:32:03.000 The Iranian Revolution, the Iran-Iraq War, the 80s Afghan War, Iraq War I, Iraq War I and a half, Iraq War II, Somalia, Libya, Syria, and Yemen, and there's some Palestine in here.

01:32:14.000 And I'm writing a book about Russia right now.

01:32:16.000 And why are 16-year-olds chanting in the hallways of their school, Free Free Palestine?

01:32:21.000 Who cares?

01:32:21.000 Abolish government school then.

01:32:27.000 This is my point. 0.98

01:32:29.000 Why does it always, like, I'm gonna... Look, when I was a kid, we said, kill them all, nuke Baghdad, whatever, which is worse. 0.99

01:32:37.000 My point is, I'm just continually at the point where I'm like, y'all can go protest for any country in the world you want, I don't care, they're not us.

01:32:44.000 In Marjorie Taylor Greene's resolution that she brought before the House to have Rashida Tlaib censored, she said, Tlaib said the Holocaust gave her a calming feeling. 0.65

01:32:55.000 Okay, I want an original source on that.

01:33:00.000 I watched the video.

01:33:01.000 She actually said that.

01:33:02.000 Are you serious?

01:33:03.000 I swear to God, there's a video clip of it.

01:33:05.000 She said it.

01:33:06.000 I've never even heard of that. 0.98

01:33:07.000 That sounds ridiculous.

01:33:08.000 It was in a broader context, but the overall point was she's like, I have a calming feeling. 0.97

01:33:16.000 I've never voted for a Democrat in my life, so I don't give a damn about that.

01:33:20.000 I did!

01:33:21.000 And then she said she stood behind her comments.

01:33:24.000 Let me tell you guys something.

01:33:26.000 College communists are bad on everything. 0.59

01:33:34.000 The squad is bad on everything.

01:33:36.000 But so what does that have to do with what we're really talking about here, right?

01:33:39.000 Like, look, why would it be that George H.W.

01:33:43.000 Bush and James Baker, 30 years ago, thought it was so important to try to negotiate a Palestinian state.

01:33:52.000 Why is it that 20 years ago, Colin Powell said... But isn't that what you're saying?

01:33:55.000 That there should be a Palestinian state?

01:33:57.000 Yes, yes, I'm saying... So maybe that's why they... Maybe they have the same reasons as you for wanting to establish it.

01:34:02.000 That's right!

01:34:02.000 That's what I'm saying.

01:34:03.000 Right, so they've been trying for a very long time.

01:34:05.000 Right, and so this is what I'm saying is...

01:34:08.000 People act like... I'm plagiarizing Martyr Maid here, okay? 0.98

01:34:15.000 He says people act like the Palestinians are this volcano.

01:34:19.000 Like everything is fine and then every once in a while this volcano erupts and there's this violence.

01:34:24.000 But the thing is everything's not fine.

01:34:27.000 The thing is, these people are under total occupation for longer than the Soviets occupied Eastern Europe.

01:34:34.000 They have no rights whatsoever.

01:34:37.000 That is why James Baker was willing to go to the mat to try to force a Palestinian state 30 years ago. 0.79

01:34:42.000 That's why Colin Powell went to the mat and lost 20 years ago.

01:34:48.000 And what happened was, the neoconservatives, which, who are the neoconservatives?

01:34:52.000 They're the vanguard of the Israel lobby, is who they are. 0.51

01:34:56.000 And they convinced Bush that the road to Jerusalem runs through Baghdad.

01:35:03.000 First we do Iraq War II, then we're in the position of strength to force the Palestinians to bow down to our wishes. 1.00

01:35:10.000 How did that work out?

01:35:12.000 I'm not going to answer.

01:35:14.000 We've got to go to Super Chats, but I want you to finish that thought.

01:35:16.000 I don't know if you're done.

01:35:17.000 No, go ahead.

01:35:17.000 We're going to go to Super Chats.

01:35:19.000 So smash that like button, subscribe to this channel, share the show with your friends.

01:35:23.000 Friday night, ladies and gentlemen, we're going to read your Super Chats, which of course are... Oh, it's Israel-Palestine.

01:35:28.000 So contentious.

01:35:28.000 I'm so excited.

01:35:30.000 Clint Torres says, howdy people!

01:35:31.000 Tim, today you gave a master class in dealing with the delusional.

01:35:34.000 I swear you deserve an honorary PhD in clinical psychology.

01:35:37.000 This morning was an awesome conversation with Cenk Uygur, and for those that watched, you probably noticed there was one point of contention when I began discussing George Floyd and Ahmaud Arbery.

01:35:47.000 Cenk got very heated about that one, did not want to hear any arguments or points, said it was racist, and I felt We're better off focusing on solutions and ideas and try to pull away from what I thought was devolving things into an irrational, WWE-style drama fight.

01:36:04.000 But that was probably the only point at which I felt like it got to that point.

01:36:08.000 I see a lot of people are saying that I'm very patient or whatever and it's a mix.

01:36:12.000 There's a lot of people who want me to just tell him he's wrong no matter what every single step of the way whenever I think he's wrong but the purpose of a show like this is I'm interviewing the guy and asking what he thinks so he can try and articulate it and I can get the best honest understanding but more importantly when Cenk comes out and starts saying that it's racist to bring up the facts of the case in Ahmaud Arbery that's for you guys to watch.

01:36:33.000 It's not to see me come out and say something like, let's, you know, it's not for me to argue with and be like, no, how dare you say that?

01:36:38.000 You know, you think you can come in here?

01:36:40.000 That serves nobody.

01:36:41.000 That's just people eating popcorn and laughing at a fight.

01:36:43.000 I want you to hear what Jenk's argument is, and then you figure out if you agree or disagree.

01:36:48.000 And I think often when it comes to a lot of these arguments, they'll say things that you'll find, hey, that's actually not a well thought out thing to say, or maybe you agree with them.

01:36:57.000 But that's the point is to have them say it.

01:37:00.000 There was a concern.

01:37:01.000 That's a really smart point to make.

01:37:03.000 Well, conservatives are trying to get this pro-Palestine event cancelled in Texas, and I immediately tweeted, like, no way!

01:37:09.000 If you are concerned these people are pro-Hamas, whatever, let them speak!

01:37:13.000 And then take those videos and share them!

01:37:15.000 Let them have their event! 0.56

01:37:16.000 Like with the drag queen stuff. 1.00

01:37:18.000 You mean with kids?

01:37:19.000 No, not with kids, but like when they do the protests or whatever, yeah.

01:37:24.000 All right, all right.

01:37:24.000 But anyway, we'll read some more.

01:37:26.000 RJ McDouglehime says, damn, so close. 0.95

01:37:28.000 Rath says, maybe, maybe, maybe not. 0.98

01:37:30.000 You guys were not first.

01:37:32.000 Matthew Hammond says, can Lauren Southern do a documentary on COVID lockdowns and businesses that closed?

01:37:36.000 Call it non-essential.

01:37:37.000 Oh, that would be cool.

01:37:38.000 One of the people she interviews should be the wife of the former guest, Gary, uh, Bosh, Buck, uh, Nerdrotic.

01:37:43.000 I can't pronounce his past name.

01:37:44.000 Buckler?

01:37:45.000 Um, what I will say is, we did this documentary with Lauren Southern, we're really excited, but, uh, Lauren is gonna be working with Tenet, so I don't know, uh, to what degree- What documentary did you do?

01:37:56.000 With Lauren, we did one, it's called Infringed.

01:37:58.000 It is a exploring- Going nuts?

01:37:59.000 Yeah.

01:38:00.000 Rad.

01:38:01.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:38:01.000 So Lauren, being Canadian, she takes a look at gun control.

01:38:06.000 She has this like adventure looking at gun control.

01:38:08.000 It's awesome.

01:38:08.000 It's coming out November 7th.

01:38:10.000 Great.

01:38:11.000 So we're super excited for it.

01:38:12.000 It was supposed to come out 4th of July.

01:38:13.000 And then there was legal stuff.

01:38:16.000 Can we get a screener so we can write about it in advance?

01:38:18.000 Absolutely.

01:38:19.000 We'll drop it when you put it out.

01:38:22.000 And I'm told it's exciting and fun.

01:38:24.000 And Lauren shoots a lot of guns. 1.00

01:38:25.000 That's great.

01:38:26.000 And we like guns.

01:38:26.000 That's awesome.

01:38:28.000 But yeah, that's coming up soon.

01:38:29.000 And then I'm also just really excited.

01:38:30.000 I don't know if you guys saw the trailer that was released by Tenet Media.

01:38:35.000 We're doing a super group.

01:38:37.000 So, Benny Johnson, Dave Rubin, me, Taylor Hanson.

01:38:41.000 It's Taylor, right?

01:38:41.000 I always get his name wrong.

01:38:43.000 Lauren Southern.

01:38:43.000 I think it was Matt Christensen.

01:38:45.000 I'm super excited about Matt Christensen.

01:38:47.000 Shout out to Matt Christensen.

01:38:48.000 He's amazing.

01:38:49.000 Love his work.

01:38:50.000 But we're basically putting together this super group.

01:38:53.000 So it's a bunch of various projects that are coming together, and I think it's wildly beneficial.

01:38:57.000 But I don't want to say too much because, you know, there's other people involved too, but the Culture War show will be moving there.

01:39:03.000 There's a lot more going on, but super excited for this.

01:39:06.000 Matt Christian's great.

01:39:07.000 I didn't know that he was involved in Tenny.

01:39:08.000 He's great.

01:39:09.000 I really like his streams.

01:39:10.000 That's awesome.

01:39:10.000 You know, that was like, you know, when this super group is coming together, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, and they're like, Matt's involved.

01:39:17.000 I was like, oh, really?

01:39:19.000 I was like, okay, well, you know, now let's send me, send me, let me know what's going on.

01:39:21.000 And then I talked to everybody who was involved and I think it's, it's, it's really, really smart.

01:39:25.000 It's one of the smartest moves in new media, in my opinion.

01:39:28.000 Yeah.

01:39:28.000 Nice.

01:39:29.000 Uh, I don't want to, I don't want to get into too much detail until they do their formal launch and everything.

01:39:32.000 They put the trailer out, but there's a lot I could elaborate on why I think it is really, really smart.

01:39:35.000 There are people saying things like, Tim, you're supposed to be independent.

01:39:38.000 What are you doing?

01:39:38.000 It's like, yes, yes.

01:39:39.000 Tim cast is entirely separate company.

01:39:40.000 We did a deal with them so we could we could it's a multi-front battle in the culture war but I really do think there's a lot more to be said and I'll save it for when they do all their big announcements and they want to you know I don't want to step on anyone's toes but it's going to be it's going to be epic.

01:39:55.000 So it's really, really cool stuff.

01:39:57.000 I think it's going to amplify the reach of many people involved.

01:40:02.000 It's a tremendous move, I think, in winning the culture war.

01:40:05.000 We all talked with a lot of people about the strategy and stuff.

01:40:07.000 I'm really excited for this.

01:40:08.000 So let's read some more.

01:40:12.000 Shane H. Wilder says, great job with the culture war.

01:40:14.000 I'm glad it was a civil discussion, even if I still disagree with Cenk.

01:40:17.000 Regardless, these conversations need to be had.

01:40:19.000 Keep it up.

01:40:20.000 I think the most important thing that came out of that was the question over who has a right to be president.

01:40:25.000 And I know a lot of conservatives will have the more immediate response of, you have to be born in this country or born to American parents.

01:40:33.000 And my point was, Chinese Communist Party members Having a surrogate in California give birth to their son, who is now a natural born citizen, who within an hour of being born is flown back to China, who is raised in China, and then a loyal CCP member comes to the United States and wants to be president.

01:40:54.000 That doesn't make sense.

01:40:55.000 So the line isn't just if you were born here because there's issues that we have to deal with right now with People coming here just to, you know, having their kids just to be born here so they get these rights and access. 1.00

01:41:04.000 So the question is, what should the test and restriction be if we're going to have one?

01:41:09.000 Cenk made interesting points.

01:41:10.000 I don't completely agree.

01:41:12.000 He argued the 14th Amendment has already determined you can be president even if you weren't born here.

01:41:18.000 I don't think the Supreme Court sides with him, but he's saying he's going to win and all that stuff.

01:41:21.000 He has to say that, you know, to be fair, he's making the argument.

01:41:24.000 But, you know, my point was, who would you rather have As president, someone who is a Chinese Communist Party member and official, who was born in California, spent three days here, and then was raised in China, or Dinesh D'Souza.

01:41:39.000 Well, I'd rather have Dinesh.

01:41:40.000 But he wasn't born here, so he can't be president.

01:41:42.000 Sorry, you get the CCP member.

01:41:43.000 But he's very smart.

01:41:44.000 But I don't know why anyone would vote for the CCP.

01:41:46.000 I don't know why those are the only options.

01:41:47.000 It's not. 0.99

01:41:49.000 I never could figure out why in a country of 300 million people we gotta settle for the scum that runs for the highest office in the country. 1.00

01:41:56.000 Because in a country that has so much opportunity, like America, people that are skilled and they can do actually good things. 0.96

01:42:04.000 Why aren't you running?

01:42:06.000 Oh, come on. 0.87

01:42:07.000 You know what I am?

01:42:09.000 I'm a great advisor to Libertarian Party presidential candidates.

01:42:12.000 That's what I am.

01:42:13.000 And you know what?

01:42:13.000 I screwed up.

01:42:13.000 I forgot to say during the main part of the show.

01:42:16.000 I got an article on antiwar.com today, the spotlight article.

01:42:19.000 It's full of quotes.

01:42:21.000 In fact, if anyone's collecting these quotes, it's your ultimate resource for quotes of Benjamin Netanyahu and his men explaining why they like Hamas ruling the Gaza Strip so they don't have to deal in good faith with the Palestinians on the West Bank.

01:42:36.000 A list of quotes this long.

01:42:37.000 It's the spotlight on Antiwar.com right now.

01:42:40.000 Here's an important question, and with respect, because we're huge fans of Dave Smith.

01:42:44.000 Why isn't Dave Smith running for president?

01:42:48.000 I have no comment on that.

01:42:49.000 He's because he's got a wife and kid that his kid had like head.

01:42:53.000 I don't know for sure that like it's not like I know but that's it talk to him, but he's got a kid has a heart.

01:42:57.000 I get it.

01:42:59.000 I mean, no disrespect when I ask my point is running for president is very very very hard.

01:43:04.000 You have to have something deeply wrong with you Dave Smith would have to be like my family's not important to decide to run for president.

01:43:11.000 I don't think that's true.

01:43:12.000 I mean, especially as a libertarian you could do a half-assed job and still be you know, all right, Dave, where you at?

01:43:18.000 The problem that we've had in the Libertarian Party for a very long time, since Harry Brown, is we've ended up, we've essentially, well, Baden O'Rourke was, I don't know, we have Presidential candidates who don't understand the philosophy and don't know how to talk about it and don't know, you know, we have Bob Barr and Gary Johnson and that's right.

01:43:37.000 You know, I'll tell you a story.

01:43:38.000 Where were you to whisper in his ear? 1.00

01:43:40.000 I'll tell you where I was.

01:43:41.000 I wrote Gary Johnson a memo this long about Syria the night before that happened.

01:43:46.000 No!

01:43:46.000 Are you kidding me?

01:43:47.000 I swear to God.

01:43:49.000 And which was all about what?

01:43:50.000 It was all about Gary.

01:43:52.000 Barack Obama is backing Al-Qaeda in Syria right now, bro.

01:43:56.000 Like I was hitting him with some good stuff.

01:43:58.000 You're only making me hate him more!

01:44:00.000 And I swear, this is what he answered me.

01:44:02.000 He answered me back.

01:44:03.000 I'm a libertarian.

01:44:03.000 Thanks!

01:44:06.000 Not like, wait a minute, can I call you and ask you some follow-up questions? 0.99

01:44:09.000 Goddamn you, Gary Johnson! 0.99

01:44:11.000 But wait, listen, listen. 0.99

01:44:13.000 The funny thing about the Aleppo moment is, do you know what Trump would have said?

01:44:17.000 Look, Aleppo is interesting, I know a lot of people are talking about it, but I'm focused on jobs.

01:44:22.000 He would have pretended to know.

01:44:23.000 Exactly.

01:44:25.000 And that the more important thing is jobs and then... Well, he's right.

01:44:28.000 The more important thing is jobs.

01:44:29.000 And what's so funny is, what's so funny about that too, is that if he had known what he was talking about, if he cared at all to know about the Syria war, he could have had such a great fight with them.

01:44:39.000 Because you want to talk about Aleppo?

01:44:41.000 I'll tell you about Aleppo.

01:44:42.000 That's where Barack Obama backs the suicide bomber, head shopper murderers of Al-Qaeda and where the secular dictator with the clean-shaven chin in the three-piece suit who protects the rights of Christians and Shiites and other minorities in the country is trying to save that city from America's mercenary terrorist forces. 0.51

01:45:06.000 So you're turning for Russia?

01:45:08.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:45:09.000 And what were they saying at the time?

01:45:10.000 They were saying that Assad is committing genocide.

01:45:14.000 Assad is attempting to murder every last man, woman, and child in his own country.

01:45:18.000 And luckily, Al-Qaeda is there! 1.00

01:45:20.000 The moderate rebels are trying to stand up to him and prevent him from accomplishing this.

01:45:26.000 But then what happened?

01:45:27.000 Just after that, within a couple of months after that, not even, a few weeks after that, the Assad government finished retaking that town, the jihadists all got on buses to the Idlib province, and then what happened?

01:45:40.000 They had Christmas, and all the Christians came back, and all the civilian population of Aleppo came back. 0.99

01:45:46.000 The city was saved by Bashar al-Assad from the real genocidal murderer, Barack Hussein Obama. 0.58

01:45:55.000 And Benjamin Netanyahu.

01:45:56.000 Sparky Wire says, Tim's unhinged financial advice.

01:45:59.000 Sleep in the park with $5,000 in your backpack.

01:46:01.000 You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

01:46:03.000 Sorry, if you're not willing to take those risks, you don't win.

01:46:08.000 That's just the way it's gonna be.

01:46:09.000 You gotta bet big to win big.

01:46:11.000 Now, look, in all honesty, in all seriousness, I wouldn't recommend anybody do what I do in terms of risk.

01:46:18.000 You take a lot of wacky risks and you do a lot of wacky things.

01:46:22.000 Oh, I love doing wacky things.

01:46:23.000 What happened to that mini mega you were gonna build here, man?

01:46:26.000 Oh man.

01:46:26.000 I would love to see a map of all the places you've been.

01:46:30.000 I don't want to besmirch the good name of friends of mine, but I'll tell you afterwards.

01:46:36.000 It's more of a private thing.

01:46:38.000 It's kind of just like You know, business stuff.

01:46:44.000 It's coming.

01:46:45.000 It's just gonna be somewhere else.

01:46:46.000 I gotta tell you, I want to try it, but also I'm so terrified.

01:46:50.000 We have a big project with the new skate park stuff that we're doing, and we're really, really excited.

01:46:56.000 I don't know if we've been posting yet.

01:46:57.000 It's called The Boonies.

01:46:58.000 It's the skate show and project we're doing.

01:47:00.000 We've been releasing a lot of content.

01:47:01.000 That's a great name.

01:47:04.000 I like it, yeah.

01:47:05.000 Scott, next time you come, no matter what you think, bring the skateboard.

01:47:08.000 I'm bringing my board next time.

01:47:09.000 time.

01:47:10.000 We had a great session last time.

01:47:11.000 After the show, it's like midnight, I am dead tired and he's like, you have to skate.

01:47:16.000 I did a kickflip pivot on the mini ramp.

01:47:17.000 He did do a kickflip pivot on the mini ramp.

01:47:20.000 I'm like, that's not bad.

01:47:22.000 He's got a mean hardflip.

01:47:23.000 Well, he showed us this video earlier, but I've seen with my own eyeballs a mean hardflip, and what do you call it?

01:47:28.000 A hang ten hardflip?

01:47:29.000 Yeah, a hang ten hardflip.

01:47:29.000 I love that.

01:47:30.000 Almost a hang ten hardflip, lightflip, I've done them.

01:47:32.000 But I landed an ollie blunt, and I still remember telling myself, Do not bail!

01:47:37.000 These boys are looking at you!

01:47:40.000 Feet on grip tape, Horton!

01:47:43.000 So, uh, as for the sleeping in a park with a ton of money, what I will say is, to varying degrees, you must determine the amount of risk you are willing to take, and I would not recommend anyone take any risk.

01:47:52.000 If someone comes to me and says, I want to go report from Turkey and Istanbul during mass protests, I would say, don't ask me, because I'll tell you not to do it.

01:47:59.000 Why?

01:48:00.000 I will not be responsible for the risks you decide to take, because I'm not you.

01:48:03.000 That being said, I take a whole lot of crazy risks, and boy, do they pay off.

01:48:07.000 So... Weren't you there for the Kyrgyzstan coup in 05?

01:48:11.000 Or something like that?

01:48:12.000 What?

01:48:13.000 I'm not that old!

01:48:15.000 I was in the Gezi Park protests, but I know to get out of war. 0.88

01:48:18.000 And I have no problem saying this.

01:48:20.000 I have no illusions of grandeur.

01:48:22.000 When civil unrest results in war, I'm gone three hours before that happens.

01:48:27.000 And I'm like, you need military veterans to be reporting from these locations.

01:48:31.000 You need people with actual war experience, because it's about two things.

01:48:36.000 I got no problem risking my own life.

01:48:38.000 But I cannot be responsible for someone else's and I've been in some serious conflict stuff where they have strapped people to my ankles and I'm like, I have to keep this person alive now?

01:48:51.000 I am not the person for that job.

01:48:52.000 I am not a medic.

01:48:53.000 I am not a first responder.

01:48:54.000 I'm not a soldier.

01:48:55.000 I would not be able to handle that.

01:48:57.000 I have no problem running and jumping over walls and breathing in tear gas and bullets are flying and I'm hitting the deck, but the moment you put someone with me who doesn't have any capabilities, and I know if I abandon them, that I was in Venezuela, They're National Guard, they're shooting at people.

01:49:14.000 They had been shooting at people in the past, so when these protests happened, they weren't shooting where I was, I don't believe.

01:49:19.000 When something snapped between the National Guard and the students, everyone runs.

01:49:23.000 I yell to my crew, move now, run!

01:49:27.000 And I run, and I look back and they're just standing there staring at the National Guard with rifles in their marks, and I'm like...

01:49:33.000 Oh my god.

01:49:34.000 Oh my god. 0.93

01:49:35.000 Like, they're going to die.

01:49:37.000 And so, I was just... I lost it.

01:49:40.000 I said, guys, we're leaving.

01:49:41.000 I will not be here to pick up your remains.

01:49:46.000 Like, people are being shot and killed in this place.

01:49:48.000 It wasn't a war zone.

01:49:49.000 It was civil unrest with live ammo.

01:49:51.000 That's my limit.

01:49:53.000 And I'm like, I couldn't imagine being actually in Syria or Afghanistan or anything like that.

01:49:57.000 I could not handle that.

01:49:58.000 And so that for me was like, if you can't do this, if you're not trained, I'm sorry.

01:50:02.000 I am not skilled enough to be able to be a fixer for you guys. 0.96

01:50:06.000 And I think about, there are a lot of journalists I know who are dumb as a box of rocks and they'll get some like, you know, Iraq war veteran to be their security head. 0.95

01:50:15.000 And I'm like, what a job. 0.99

01:50:17.000 I'm like, yikes, man.

01:50:19.000 I wouldn't put anyone in that position. 0.98

01:50:20.000 For myself, my own dumb journalist self, I wouldn't.

01:50:24.000 When the security guys, when I would be, they would make us do these security things like coordination and prep. 0.94

01:50:31.000 I'll give you a better story.

01:50:32.000 I was in Brazil interviewing the BOPI, I think it was the BOPI, it could have been the CARA or whatever it's called, SWAT cops.

01:50:40.000 They had this mock favela and they're explaining how they go in to deal with the gang members and the cartels and all that stuff.

01:50:46.000 It was like their own cop city?

01:50:48.000 It's- it's- no, it's not a cop city, it's a fake favela.

01:50:50.000 It's a training center that's designed to be like a favela, and we're on the top of a building, and I- I- and he's explaining, like, you know, it's very narrow corridors, and I said, what do you do now?

01:51:00.000 You're up here.

01:51:01.000 The guy jumps, and he goes- he smiles, and he just- he- he- he grabs the wall and he jumps down, and then I jump down right after him, and he's like, yeah!

01:51:08.000 And he gives me a- he gives me a high-five, like, I just jumped off a building with this guy.

01:51:12.000 So he's like, I've had meetings with security guards and I'm like, I've been skateboarding for 20 years, and they're like, okay, good.

01:51:19.000 So when I tell you, you move, you'll be quick, I get it.

01:51:22.000 And then you have the other journalists who are morbidly obese, and don't know what gunshots sound like, and they're like, alright.

01:51:31.000 Yeah, but we gotta read some more, we gotta read some more.

01:51:33.000 But my point ultimately there is, if someone comes to me and says, Tim, I'd like to report for you in the Middle East, I'd say, nope, because I can't be responsible for you.

01:51:41.000 A lot of news organizations will not allow you, they will not hire you, it won't happen.

01:51:45.000 This is why they do hire military veterans.

01:51:47.000 So if you're like, ah, Tim said, sit in the park with five grand, I'm like, oh bro, I've done crazier things than that.

01:51:52.000 I mean, come on.

01:51:53.000 I'm like, I'm driving into active riots and people shooting at each other.

01:51:57.000 That's way crazier than carrying a bunch of money in your pocket.

01:52:01.000 But you gotta figure out the amount of risk you're willing to take to get the biscuit.

01:52:05.000 You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

01:52:06.000 Is that a skateboarding thing?

01:52:07.000 Or is it, I don't know, people say it in skateboarding.

01:52:09.000 I never heard that phrase until right now.

01:52:11.000 Risk it for the biscuit?

01:52:12.000 It does rhyme.

01:52:12.000 But I like it.

01:52:15.000 Yeah, so I think we just had some skaters here.

01:52:16.000 Dude did a kickflip, blunt kickflip. 1.00

01:52:18.000 And it's like, you gotta risk it for the biscuit.

01:52:19.000 Sweet.

01:52:19.000 I know, I'll show you the video.

01:52:21.000 I'll tell you this.

01:52:22.000 There's a vert ramp going up somewhere in Texas.

01:52:27.000 That's going to be 12 feet, with extensions, with pool coping.

01:52:30.000 It's going to be 150 feet wide.

01:52:32.000 Half a football field wide.

01:52:36.000 We've got to save my legs and my elbows for that one.

01:52:39.000 We've got to read more Super Chips.

01:52:40.000 We've got to read more Super Chips.

01:52:41.000 Logan Culver says, Scott, do you have a photographic memory?

01:52:43.000 Your ability to pull up all this info is amazing.

01:52:46.000 Yes, I do have a photographic memory.

01:52:50.000 One of my real advantages, you know, when I was a boy, third grade, my hero was Encyclopedia Brown.

01:52:56.000 His he the crime solver and his thing is he remembers everything he reads and that's that's really my talent and I I can I kind of picture the I can I can remember the colors in the shape of the website really helps me remember where I read what and when and that kind of thing.

01:53:12.000 IsThisDom says General Clark wanted to attack Russian military in Kosovo.

01:53:16.000 James Blunt and his CO refused Clark's orders to attack a Russian-controlled airport.

01:53:20.000 Yeah, so this is what I was mentioning earlier about World War III there, yeah.

01:53:22.000 Clark would have started World War III in the 90s.

01:53:24.000 He's a warmonger.

01:53:25.000 That's right.

01:53:25.000 So when he says James Blunt, this is the singer, who I'm not familiar with his songs, but I think he's like a real famous guy, right?

01:53:32.000 Wait, the singer?

01:53:33.000 English singer?

01:53:34.000 Yes, James Blunt.

01:53:34.000 He was a colonel.

01:53:35.000 Really?

01:53:35.000 Yes, yes.

01:53:35.000 Is that your beautiful guy?

01:53:36.000 It gets better.

01:53:37.000 Yes, yes.

01:53:37.000 That's the guy.

01:53:38.000 Yeah?

01:53:38.000 That's the guy.

01:53:39.000 Okay, and then it gets better.

01:53:40.000 No way!

01:53:40.000 It gets better.

01:53:42.000 Wesley Clark ordered James Blunt to take his men and seize the Pristina Airport after the Russians took it.

01:53:50.000 And the Russians weren't supposed to take it, but they went in there and they got the Pristina Airport.

01:53:53.000 Clark ordered Blunt to take the airport.

01:53:57.000 And then guess who intervened and stopped him?

01:53:59.000 General Michael Jackson of the British Army told General Michael Jackson said

01:54:11.000 belay that order blunt and told General Clark I'm not gonna start World War

01:54:17.000 Three for you.

01:54:18.000 Then he moonwalked across the battlefield.

01:54:21.000 And by the way, so Clark also was in charge of Fort Hood during Waco.

01:54:25.000 It's not Fort Hood anymore.

01:54:27.000 Whatever they name it now.

01:54:28.000 For a PC, but he was the boss during Waco, and General Shoemaker, who was the commander of Delta Force, it's really General Shoemaker who murdered those people, but he was working for Clark at the time, and so those men's responsibility for that is still to come due.

01:54:43.000 Legama says, Tim, I'd like to see this man debate historian Benny Morris about the 1948 war.

01:54:47.000 Oh boy, wouldn't that be fun? 0.97

01:54:49.000 I would love to see his ignorance humbled. 0.98

01:54:51.000 Oh, that would be hilarious. 0.97

01:54:52.000 All I would do is read Benny Morris to Benny Morris.

01:54:54.000 Are you kidding me?

01:54:55.000 This guy, this guy ought to read what Benny Morris has written, the truth.

01:55:00.000 Benny Morris is, all I'll have you know... We should do a culture war episode.

01:55:03.000 Here's two things to know about Benny Morris.

01:55:05.000 He has done more...

01:55:06.000 He has done more to tell the truth about what happened during the Nakba to the poor people of Palestine than probably anyone else.

01:55:14.000 He's a revisionist historian in Israel and then he also is a total hawk who says that they should have finished the job and cleansed them all, all the way out of there.

01:55:22.000 So he's a total hawk but he's an honest guy and he has done probably more for establishing the real truth of what happened in the Nakba than any other Israeli historian.

01:55:31.000 I would love to debate Benny Morris, Tim.

01:55:34.000 You make that happen for me, buddy.

01:55:36.000 And I'll bring my skateboard that day for sure.

01:55:38.000 We should definitely do a culture war where we can find somebody who would like to have a debate with you on all this stuff if you'd be interested.

01:55:45.000 I'm happy to do it.

01:55:46.000 That'd be great.

01:55:47.000 I'm happy to do it.

01:55:47.000 I know a lot of people were hoping that I could debate Ben Shapiro here but I don't think he'll show up.

01:55:52.000 Here?

01:55:53.000 Sure.

01:55:56.000 No, it's not about being neutral.

01:56:02.000 I say this about Hasan and Cenk Uygur.

01:56:04.000 I'm like, guys, guys, if someone's got a full-time job where they're running a company and hosting a show, if someone said, Tim Pool, why don't you fly to LA and debate a guy?

01:56:12.000 I'll be like, well, I'm running a company.

01:56:13.000 We've got like 40 employees.

01:56:14.000 I got to host my show.

01:56:15.000 It's no disrespect.

01:56:16.000 I took a week off of writing my book to read Nothing But Israel stuff and prepare for this show to come out here and try to do my best for you guys.

01:56:26.000 And I have a lot of jobs.

01:56:28.000 No, I get it.

01:56:30.000 I think it's worth it.

01:56:30.000 And by the way, Shapiro, I challenge you, dude.

01:56:34.000 I saw you say on Joe Rogan that you're willing to debate this issue, but I think you're a coward and I don't think you are man enough.

01:56:40.000 Well, I gotta tell you, I don't think that is conducive to actually having the conversation with him.

01:56:46.000 Well, you know, Gene Epstein already invited him to debate me for money at the Soho Forum in New York, and he wouldn't do it.

01:56:52.000 And so what ended up happening was I instead debated Bill Kristol and drove him into the ground.

01:56:57.000 Have you ever seen that?

01:56:58.000 It was awesome!

01:57:00.000 I debated Bill Kristol and smashed him because Ben Shapiro wasn't man enough to show up.

01:57:04.000 Well, we have to make sure it is the steelmanest of steelmanest debates.

01:57:10.000 Sure.

01:57:10.000 So we don't want to get any half-assed, you know... Agree.

01:57:13.000 Not for Bill Kristol. 0.99

01:57:14.000 Bill Kristol's garbage. 0.99

01:57:15.000 He's wrong about everything. 1.00

01:57:16.000 Everything!

01:57:17.000 I didn't strawman Bill Kristol either.

01:57:19.000 I don't do strawman, dude.

01:57:21.000 I don't want to win a rigged game.

01:57:22.000 There ain't no honor in that.

01:57:23.000 We want to put the heavyweights against the heavyweights.

01:57:25.000 The only problem is with debating Ben Shapiro is I'm not sure if I could stop myself from laughing the whole time he's talking.

01:57:31.000 Just from the sound of his voice.

01:57:32.000 You're not going to get a debate.

01:57:34.000 No, but seriously, why would he debate you if you're just insulting him?

01:57:36.000 Okay, you know what?

01:57:38.000 He wouldn't already.

01:57:39.000 We already tried this.

01:57:40.000 And I told, I was actually very polite at the time and said, hey, seriously, man, I'd like to discuss this with you.

01:57:46.000 We could do a whole thing and try to be very adult about it.

01:57:49.000 And he refused to respond in any way to Gene Epstein's offer to have this debate at SoHo.

01:57:53.000 Cenk Uygur has said some really awful things about me.

01:57:56.000 he's yelled at me in person and I still like say like I don't insult him uh I I try to agree with

01:58:03.000 him when I can and he eventually said you know what I'll come on Tim's show he came on because

01:58:07.000 he's running for president you know but but Tim you know that Ben Shapiro will only debate 0.99

01:58:12.000 college girls who are confused about their gender identity or some crap 1.00

01:58:17.000 He'll make fun of some little kid. 0.97

01:58:19.000 Have you ever seen him debate a grown man about an actual subject of import of any kind?

01:58:26.000 Yeah, I don't either.

01:58:29.000 But, you know, I see him in the right-hand margin on YouTube for some reason every single day, no matter what.

01:58:37.000 Ben Shapiro destroys 19-year-old girl who doesn't know the difference between a girl and a boy.

01:58:42.000 Okay, well that's, you know, really impressive, I guess.

01:58:45.000 Look, there's a Supreme Court justice that doesn't know the difference between a girl and a boy. 0.99

01:58:51.000 Fair point.

01:58:52.000 Fair point.

01:58:53.000 In all seriousness, why don't we find someone who's, like, very...

01:58:58.000 Like, top tier?

01:59:00.000 I'm happy to do it.

01:59:01.000 Best of the best! 0.76

01:59:02.000 And look, I think this is something that you guys deal with a lot when you're dealing with the left is all these ridiculous accusations of racism.

01:59:08.000 You guys were talking about some of this a little bit earlier in the show today.

01:59:11.000 But it's the same thing on the right with the claims about anti-Semitism.

01:59:14.000 I bet you could probably testify to this more than any other person or just as well as me.

01:59:19.000 Any person involved with online alternative media can tell you that anyone who's actually an anti-Semite We'll tell you that they are, and we'll try to convince you to also be. 0.99

01:59:31.000 And so when you hear right-wingers throwing around Jew-hater and anti-Semite when we're talking about Israel-Palestine, that ought to sound as ridiculous in your ear as when everybody calls you a racist just because you disagree about the minimum wage or whatever it is that they're stupid on, you know? 0.98

01:59:46.000 All right, we'll read some more. 0.98

01:59:47.000 Missykin says, Tim, how did you not want to punch Cenk during the Culture War interview today for saying you attract right-wingers because you look at the nuance in each of the high-profile police killings?

01:59:57.000 I don't wanna hit... I don't wanna hit anyone.

02:00:01.000 Ever.

02:00:02.000 Sometimes in self-defense, you have to.

02:00:04.000 I think the most I've ever gotten is saying that I wanted to punch my monitor screen or something, but, you know, it's about tech, but no, no, no, no, listen, listen.

02:00:12.000 People need to understand this.

02:00:14.000 Cenk performed as I hoped he would.

02:00:16.000 The first and foremost, the most important thing, we agree on a lot.

02:00:20.000 I'm like, if we can be, I said- What were y'all mostly talking about?

02:00:24.000 Foreign war, I think.

02:00:25.000 Well, I don't know, it's two and a half, two hours and 40 minutes, probably a bunch of things.

02:00:29.000 But what stood out to me is, I said, if we can win where we agree, we should focus on those things.

02:00:35.000 Max Blumenthal said that.

02:00:37.000 And I said, if Mitt Romney was running against Joe Biden, I'd vote Cenk Uygur.

02:00:41.000 Why?

02:00:41.000 At least we get Julian Assange pardoned.

02:00:43.000 All right, and I can bet he's not going to start foreign wars.

02:00:47.000 Now, all the other stuff I think is probably going to be awful. 0.99

02:00:49.000 And I say Romney, not that he's running, but because he's the example of that garbage Republican and Joe Biden is the garbage Democrat. 0.99

02:00:57.000 They're going to screw me over every way and have war. 0.99

02:01:01.000 So, like, if the best I can get is Is Janku for gun control and a bunch of woke policy and stuff?

02:01:08.000 You know, that's what I wanted to focus on.

02:01:10.000 But understand, when I began talking about George Floyd and then he lost it, I'm like, I'm not saying it's right or wrong.

02:01:19.000 I'm asking you, what is the answer to, there is a man behind the wheel of an SUV chewing on a speedball, methamphetamine and fentanyl, should the police not intervene?

02:01:27.000 He says they shouldn't.

02:01:27.000 I'm like, okay, and when the police do and the man resists, What should they do?

02:01:31.000 And he's like, I can't believe you're defending us.

02:01:33.000 Okay.

02:01:33.000 Well, then he's like the most high profile profile case.

02:01:35.000 I said, let's talk about Ahmaud Arbery.

02:01:37.000 I said, and he goes, Oh, you mean when the two racist guys killed that jogger?

02:01:40.000 And I'm like, okay, right here.

02:01:42.000 This is the point.

02:01:43.000 If you don't know the facts of the case and he's like, I can't believe you would even say this and blah, blah, blah.

02:01:48.000 But that's the point.

02:01:50.000 I want everyone to see Cenk say that.

02:01:53.000 Cenk wants everyone to see Cenk say that.

02:01:55.000 The wager both of us have made is that I believe the average person will be repelled by what he said.

02:02:01.000 He believes the average person will agree and be attracted to what he said.

02:02:06.000 I'll take my wager.

02:02:07.000 I think what he said was repellent.

02:02:09.000 But he said it because he believes it.

02:02:11.000 I'm glad he did.

02:02:12.000 We had a great conversation.

02:02:13.000 I'm not mad about it.

02:02:14.000 I'm like, thank you for saying that.

02:02:17.000 I'm now going to show my friends and family and I say, this is what an argument looks like when you try bringing up the nuance in a criminal trial.

02:02:25.000 Yeah, that made me mad.

02:02:27.000 I was just really glad to see the conversation.

02:02:30.000 I mean, it's so rare, and you guys talked about this in the interview, like it's so rare to see people from, you know, sort of divergent political perspectives actually have a conversation, you know?

02:02:42.000 Well, Max Blumenthal came on, he said the same thing, he's like, we're probably going to disagree on a lot, and I'm like, then let's just win all of the things we can win on, that we want, and then go back to complaining about each other.

02:02:55.000 Is that fair?

02:02:56.000 I totally agree with that.

02:02:57.000 Let's do it.

02:02:58.000 Look, I'm a libertarian, and so that means I know that no matter what, like, if I die at 85, we're still going to be a tiny minority of the population of the country.

02:03:07.000 So I can try to recruit as many new libertarians as I can, but I also just want to help the right and the left to prioritize to be the least worst right and the left that they could be as well, you know what I mean?

02:03:20.000 The majority of this country is anti-war.

02:03:22.000 I absolutely agree with that, and especially that it's really changing on the right.

02:03:26.000 Unfortunately, this Israel thing has really kind of thrown a monkey wrench in the America first right, but only temporarily, I think. 0.87

02:03:32.000 It was interesting, though, to hear Mike Johnson talk about funding for Israel today because he at least said that any money that he would advocate for to go to Israel would have to come from somewhere else in the budget.

02:03:45.000 From Americans. 0.95

02:03:47.000 Well, I mean, he didn't say that.

02:03:48.000 I would ideally say that, you know, it would be pulled from different foreign programs.

02:03:51.000 By the way, you know, Libby asked me a question earlier that I actually didn't get a chance to answer, but I'll just be real brief about the, because we talked about 48 a little bit, but just kind of this ongoing narrative that the Israelis keep trying to give the Palestinians a state and they always say no, that that's just really not true.

02:04:10.000 And in fact, I have a book here that I was reading today.

02:04:12.000 I didn't quite finish it today, but It's what really happened or the secret history of Camp David in the year 2000 and how Arafat just took all the blame that they try to give him a whole state and he refused to do it.

02:04:23.000 And it's just not true.

02:04:24.000 And what happens is they essentially set him up to be the rejectionist and then they go, aha, see?

02:04:31.000 And in fact in the book they show where Bill Clinton agreed and promised Arafat, if it all falls apart, I promise I won't blame you because you're right.

02:04:39.000 They're being Real sticklers about this, that, and the other.

02:04:42.000 Forget the details for a second, but the deal is not coming through.

02:04:45.000 The Israelis are not being as generous as they say, whatever. 0.94

02:04:49.000 And then when the deal falls apart, they go, aha!

02:04:52.000 It's all his fault!

02:04:54.000 And we tried to give him a state, but he refused to accept it, because you know how those Arabs are, and all this kind of stuff. 1.00

02:05:00.000 And then, just to provide one footnote for that too, is people can look this up.

02:05:04.000 This was a leak from 2011.

02:05:06.000 It was leaked to the Guardian and to Al Jazeera.

02:05:09.000 It's called the Palestine Papers.

02:05:10.000 Was it in the sock drawer?

02:05:11.000 Was this part of the Bill Clinton sock drawer?

02:05:13.000 I don't think so.

02:05:15.000 Totally separate.

02:05:16.000 If you're talking about Sandy Berger stealing documents, that's a different thing.

02:05:19.000 But these Palestine Papers reveal that the Palestinian Authority under Mahmoud Abbas, they have just been bending over backwards to accommodate the Israelis. 0.67

02:05:29.000 They've been willing to give up all of their claims on East Jerusalem.

02:05:32.000 They've been willing to give up all their claims on all but like the Three biggest settlements that prevent the West Bank from being contiguous and this kind of deal and then it's the Israelis who won't negotiate in good faith and you can read the Palestine papers that they really demonstrate this. 0.74

02:05:48.000 All right.

02:05:48.000 That's the case.

02:05:49.000 We're gonna wrap it up there everybody if you haven't already would you kindly smash that like button, subscribe to the channel, share the show with your friends, become a member at TimCast.com if you want to support our work.

02:05:58.000 It's Friday, so we're going to go take some days to relax, but I'm always reading the news.

02:06:02.000 We're going to have clips up throughout the weekend.

02:06:04.000 It's going to be great.

02:06:04.000 You can follow the show at TimCastIRL.

02:06:06.000 You can follow me personally everywhere at TimCast.

02:06:08.000 Scott, do you want to shout anything out?

02:06:10.000 Check out my guys at the Libertarian Institute.

02:06:13.000 I've got a great group of guys.

02:06:15.000 We've got the best guy at Cato, Ted Carpenter, got fired for being too good on Ukraine.

02:06:20.000 Now he writes for me.

02:06:22.000 Okay, and I got the world-famous and heroic James Bovard.

02:06:27.000 We're about to publish his book, Last Rights, The Death of American Liberty.

02:06:33.000 We're about to publish Tom Wood's book, Diary of a Psychosis, How Public Health Failed Us During COVID Mania.

02:06:40.000 Oh, you'll love this one, Domestic Imperialism.

02:06:44.000 Nine Reasons I Left Progressivism by Keith Knight.

02:06:48.000 Awesome.

02:06:48.000 You're gonna love it.

02:06:49.000 It's so good, and he's just brilliant.

02:06:51.000 And then, of course, all the bad news in the world at antiwar.com.

02:06:54.000 Check out my show, The Scott Horton Show.

02:06:56.000 I got 6,000 interviews going back to 2003, proving that me and my guys are right about everything.

02:07:01.000 And read my book, Enough Already, Time to End the War on Terrorism.

02:07:04.000 Right on.

02:07:06.000 I am PhilThatRemains on Twix.

02:07:09.000 I am PhilThatRemainsOfficial on Instagram.

02:07:12.000 The band is All That Remains.

02:07:13.000 You can find us on Spotify, on YouTube, on Amazon Music, on Pandora.

02:07:20.000 You know, the Internet.

02:07:21.000 Scott, you were awesome.

02:07:22.000 Thank you so much.

02:07:23.000 Oh, and I'm on Twitter, at Scott Horton Show, too.

02:07:25.000 And thank you.

02:07:26.000 I'm very grateful for you having me here today.

02:07:27.000 Oh, yeah.

02:07:28.000 Anytime, man.

02:07:28.000 It's been a blast.

02:07:30.000 Libby? 0.81

02:07:30.000 I'm Libby Emmons. 0.81

02:07:31.000 You can find me on Twitter, I'm not cool enough to say Twix, at Libby Emmons.

02:07:36.000 You just said it!

02:07:36.000 I know, but I can't make it work.

02:07:38.000 And you can find all the great work we're doing at thepostmillennial.com and humanevents.com.

02:07:44.000 And if you'd like to subscribe, it's thepostmillennial.com slash subscribe.

02:07:47.000 Thanks.

02:07:49.000 And I'm Serge.com.

02:07:50.000 I'm rooting for the Bucks.

02:07:51.000 You should, too.

02:07:52.000 We can beat the All Blacks.

02:07:53.000 We have a better record than them, I think.

02:07:54.000 I don't know.

02:07:55.000 I have to look into that.

02:07:56.000 I'm not really sure.

02:07:56.000 But it's the most important thing in the world, guys.

02:07:58.000 So the African needs to win the Cup. 0.73

02:08:00.000 Please, we need that Web Ellis back. 1.00

02:08:02.000 I'm going to be playing music in D.C.

02:08:03.000 later tonight.

02:08:04.000 Cheers.

02:08:05.000 And at some point soon, we got the music set up, too.

02:08:08.000 So I'm telling Phil he's got to play some music.

02:08:11.000 Dennis Prager to debate.

02:08:13.000 Scott, might be good.

02:08:15.000 Oh, I'd do that.

02:08:16.000 We can ask him, but, you know, we'll figure it out.

02:08:17.000 Alright, everybody.

Timcast IRL - Tim Pool - October 27, 2023

Timcast IRL - Israel Formally Invades Gaza "It Has Begun," Saudis Warn US, WW3 Feared w-Scott Horton

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