Jeffrey Toobin caught on camera while on a zoom call with an anti-Trump colleague. James O'Keefe joins the show to talk about it and more. Plus, Project Veritas releases a new undercover video proving that Google's algorithms are skewed in favor of Joe Biden.
00:04:26.000Well, this is a guy, Ritesh Lakhar, technical program manager at Google, and he works for the cloud.
00:04:32.000And he's kind of an unwitting whistleblower.
00:04:35.000He talks about how the corporation plays God.
00:04:37.000And I'm reading here, like, if it was fraud, it doesn't matter.
00:04:40.000But for Trump or for Melania, it matters.
00:04:43.000On the other side, Trump says something, misinformation, you're going to delete that because it's illegal or whatever pretext.
00:04:47.000He talks about the double standard, something we all suspect to be true, but he says if a Democratic leader says that, then you're just going to leave it.
00:04:54.000And he talks about how the corporation, Google, is outsourcing jobs in order to spy on Americans, and he feels guilty about this.
00:05:01.000And he describes the algorithm, how people cry in the corridors of Google when Trump won.
00:05:07.000So a lot of what Veritas does is confirm suspicions, right?
00:05:10.000None of this is surprising to you, but it may be one of the first times we've ever heard them say it as a current employee.
00:05:19.000Sometimes the newsworthiness is such that people talk about the ethics of recording maybe a good man saying this, but the public's right to know is paramount.
00:05:28.000It's important that we show this information to the masses.
00:05:31.000This guy says something about training Chinese people to spy on America and something like that.
00:06:12.000So there's a tweet, I've been getting the same thing sitting here right now, and it says, quote, this tweet might include sensitive content, to view it you need to change your privacy settings.
00:07:04.000And that's why the New York Times called it a misinformation campaign, because we were embargoing clips with people ahead of time, which is what reporters always do.
00:07:13.000But that's why I brought this book with me, 1984.
00:07:16.000If you haven't read it since you were 15, reread the book, listen to it on Audible, whatever you do.
00:07:21.000That looks like it's a 1984 printing, too.
00:07:23.000Yeah, I think this is my high school book that I took.
00:07:28.000So the embargo thing is important, too, because it is extremely common.
00:07:40.000The New York Times Talk to researchers at Stanford University, interviewed them, and they said, well, it's probably part of a disinformation campaign because James O'Keefe shared it with the MyPillow guy two days before the event.
00:10:54.000They don't go as deep as to say, yeah, when we were there, we were like, we're gonna make sure the Democrats win.
00:11:00.000But they were straight up saying, we manipulate people into doing what we want them to do.
00:11:04.000We figure out how to persuade them into doing what we want them to do.
00:11:07.000And then I see stories like that, like, you know, so in the documentary, they have this mock version of political extremism called the Extreme Center and Don't Vote, like these two groups that are fighting each other.
00:11:19.000But it's very clear that they're straight up saying social media companies are encouraging, you know, are favoring political factions or institutions.
00:11:28.000And considering we're seeing something like this, it reminds me of what we heard from the CEO of Reddit.
00:11:32.000I don't know if you're familiar with this, but he actually said, I'm confident Reddit could sway an election.
00:11:51.000So, you know, I don't know what else to say about it to say about, well, this one individual.
00:11:56.000So I'm going to ask you to with, with all of the exposes you've done on Google so far, give us the big picture of what's happening with Google, with Facebook, with Twitter, from this story to the other stories you've done.
00:12:06.000Right, well, you know, and I think video, I've said this many times, video transfixes in a way that words don't.
00:12:12.000So kind of hearing these people talk about how they do this and what they do with the, first with the Google clip we were talking about a moment ago, a woman said we've got to prevent the next Trump situation.
00:12:24.000This guy saying it seems they favor Democrats with their algorithms.
00:12:30.000It's becoming more obvious, it's becoming more clear that there is no shame on these platforms.
00:12:37.000And I think the recent New York Post story was a good example of that.
00:12:41.000Where it's just, it's no longer you need a hidden camera.
00:12:44.000They're just doing it out in the open.
00:12:46.000And I still believe that if the content, if the story is good enough, it can circumvent the powers that be because people are hungry for real, raw, enlightened information.
00:12:58.000If that premise is off, or if that's wrong, then maybe this escalates into the next DEF CON stage, which is civil unrest in this country.
00:13:06.000But I still believe fundamentally that people are intelligent enough to be receptive to real and raw information like you're seeing with Project Veritas.
00:13:15.000And what's more, Tim, is, and I can't emphasize this enough for your show, Veritas' vision is insiders and whistleblowers coming public.
00:14:00.000I mean, he's being, he's being honest about what's happening in this country.
00:14:02.000He tells you, you know, candidly what's happening.
00:14:05.000I feel bad because, you know, I don't want, I don't want this guy to go through any hardship or anything because of this.
00:14:11.000The problem is, what happens when no one is willing to step forward and tell you what's actually happening and they're actively participating in it?
00:14:18.000I had this conversation with a guy named Eric Weinstein on his podcast for like two hours about this ethics of blurring faith.
00:14:24.000Very fascinating, very intellectual conversation, but I was telling my staff that Ernest Hemingway once said, what is moral is what you feel good after and what is immoral is what you feel bad after.
00:14:35.000Morally defensible journalism is really what you feel good about afterward.
00:14:39.000It is only that which makes you feel better than you would otherwise.
00:14:42.000So it's like eating coal in the forest to help your stomach.
00:14:45.000It never feels good, but you feel better after you do it.
00:15:20.000And it's a public place, we're in a restaurant, so it's a very interesting ethical conversation I suppose, but I think we need more of this sort of thing, not less of it.
00:15:28.000So I feel bad, you know, because I empathize with somebody who is scared to come forward, won't be honest about it.
00:15:35.000But I also feel like at a certain point, if you know what you're doing is destroying something, someone, society, and you're like, well, I'm not going to stick my neck out.
00:16:12.000We have a tip line, Veritas, that's V-E-R-I-T-A-S, tips at protonmail.com, for those of you watching, if you want to be brave and do something.
00:16:36.000The goal of this news outlet, Fusion, as I was told multiple times by the president, was to just say things that the audience would agree with.
00:16:44.000And so I asked him, if there is a story that is factually true but would upset our audience, we wouldn't report it?
00:17:16.000So ultimately, I never blew the whistle or anything while I was there, but I refused to play ball with them.
00:17:23.000I ended up leaving and then basically explaining everything about what these companies do, how they do it, how the media manipulates.
00:17:30.000And I think too many people Have said to me things like, oh, well, this is really funny to me.
00:17:36.000They say, yeah, but you could support yourself, but, you know, you weren't worried about what, you know, what you were, like, you were gonna lose your job.
00:17:44.000I was worried that coming out, I did a video that Sargon of Akkad put on his channel, where it was me breaking down four different ways, I think it was four, that the media was manipulating everybody.
00:17:55.000And I knew, I'm like, I'm gonna put out a video on this, you know, this YouTuber, you know, anti-feminist guy's channel.
00:18:02.000I'm going to say this right now, let everybody know, and this is how we're going to get it out, because these companies won't let me say it.
00:18:08.000And then I better start something on my own, because I'm never going back to these companies.
00:18:11.000I had actually gone to a bunch of these, I'm not going to name them, but you know who they are, these big New York digital firms.
00:18:17.000And some of them were like, you name your job, you name your salary.
00:18:19.000And I said, I am not going to get, I saw some of the people working there, I'm not going to get myself in a situation like that anymore.
00:18:25.000You're an entrepreneur, and that's very important what you're doing.
00:18:30.000It's like you have to be a journalist and a businessman at the same time.
00:18:35.000I'm at your place right now, and it's amazing what you are building and what you've built.
00:18:40.000And what I've learned in my career is that when I started, I was in a garage with nothing but a mic and a laptop.
00:18:46.000And I realized, OK, in order to make videos, I have to do something else and I have to be the chairman of a company and I don't settle litigation.
00:20:05.000You've got to, you've got to throw it out there.
00:20:07.000So if you're, I'll tell you this, man, you have two choices.
00:20:09.000If you work for one of these companies and you know, they're doing something wrong and you say, well, I'm not getting my hands dirty or taking my neck out.
00:20:16.000Then, then how are you not a part of the problem?
00:20:52.000And it just brings tears to your eyes to hear him talk about... He left a salary, a very high salary.
00:20:58.000And he describes why he did it and he says a lot of people go through life and they just want the material things in life and that's not what life is about.
00:21:05.000And you get a lot more fulfillment in standing up for something that is right.
00:21:10.000And I don't think I could ever do anything but Project Veritas.
00:21:16.000I've tried to go to law school and do all these things.
00:21:20.000I just feel so passionately that if you stand up for what's right and moral and decent, like you have done in your career, you know, good things will happen.
00:21:29.000And I don't know what the alternative is.
00:21:30.000Do you know the story of how the Nobel Peace Prize or the Nobel Prize came about?
00:21:54.000So he decided to create something to be, you know, to be better.
00:21:56.000The Nobel Prize and all the chemistry, engineering, mathematics, Peace Prize, etc.
00:22:01.000I think people... It's... Maybe it's something that not all people have, this feeling about what you're going to leave behind.
00:22:08.000But I'm curious if, you know, these people at Google who refuse to speak up, the people who are there... Like, look, clearly not everybody at Google is a zealot who wants to manipulate people and control the world, thinking their ideology is legit.
00:23:09.000And I'm not saying it's for everybody, but there's a tiny fraction of people who... I mean, this guy Zach Voorhees, another one I didn't mention at Google, algorithmic unfairness.
00:23:18.000Zach leaked the document out of Google, and he was terminated by Google.
00:23:23.000And he said, quote, this was an act of atonement, an attempt to make my conscience clear.
00:25:04.000And I know it's interesting, you know, a lot of people don't like the conversation around potential civil war or anything like that, but I think people get confused about what it really means.
00:25:13.000I'm not talking about factions marching in the streets anytime soon or anything like that.
00:25:16.000But I do think that we're seeing this, and I'm going to pause right here, and I wanted to say this as soon as we pull up this article.
00:25:49.000I used to do these things once a month.
00:25:50.000Now I'm doing them like three times a week.
00:25:52.000It was, you know, Andrew Breitbart wrote a book called Righteous Indignation, which I believe was coined by Ida Tarbell, the investigative reporter.
00:25:58.000Investigative reporting, there's another book called Custodians of Conscience, so we test investigative reporting, test and affirms what is moral and what is not moral, and that there's that Overton window where you're kind of testing where the boundaries are about, and you're setting the threshold of anger.
00:27:48.000Vice's unique value proposition was, we go there.
00:27:51.000Imagine how broken the news business is when your unique value proposition to your customers is, we go to the place we're reporting on.
00:27:59.000None of these people will ever have me on TV, obviously, but they'll talk about this stuff.
00:28:03.000I think it's that idea of the tip of the spear being in an exposed position where you're not just responding to events but you're actually creating events.
00:28:13.000The Google thing tonight is new information into the matrix.
00:28:17.000It's like not just us talking about pre-existing information.
00:28:20.000And most media corporations, because they're commercial, that economic imperative compromises their their their what they do I don't have an
00:28:32.000economic imperative We have never generated a penny of profit which is a pain
00:28:37.000in the ass, but I have to go Work a hundred hours a week raising a pay bill
00:28:40.000But we you know I'm saying I think it's economics not ideology. Isn't there a partisan element to it? There is
00:29:18.000That's the inverse Colbert proposition.
00:29:20.000Because CNN, they just keep yammering about crap.
00:29:23.000I mean, I've been through the ringer with this, New York Times and USA, they literally say the opposite, we should talk about this, the opposite of what is real.
00:29:29.000So if, so if you, if you just, You know, extrapolate that over everything they say.
00:29:34.000If I just aim my camera in any direction, any direction, it's going to show things that are contrary to what they show you.
00:30:10.000So I consider myself to be fairly anti-establishment, and that's why I'm often ragging on, I find myself ragging on Democrats.
00:30:15.000Because I don't like the Republicans either, but right now, with Trump, you have something very different.
00:30:22.000And so, when it comes to the things that we see on CNN and MSNBC, on mainstream news outlets, these are supposed to be the news outlets that are informing everybody and being fair, and they're not.
00:30:33.000They're clearly pandering to one side and catering to one political faction in this country.
00:30:38.000So I view that as, do I care what Breitbart is doing?
00:31:20.000When the New York Post story got censored, the Washington Post fact check put up on Twitter said, Joe Biden played no role In ousting the Ukrainian prosecutor, even though he's on video saying he did!
00:31:31.000This is what they're going to start doing now, is just saying the quite literal opposite of reality that's happened to us.
00:31:39.000Anyway, my point is, I view things as like, the establishment is breaking the rules, and that's a problem to me.
00:31:47.000If there are people who oppose the establishment, who are much smaller, who are breaking the rules, I'll bring it up when it matters, but I don't think it's that significant.
00:31:53.000Like, I understand it can be in concert with all these other channels, but anyway, that's just me kind of breaking down my point of view.
00:31:59.000As it relates to you, you guys have been accused of being, you know, partisan, conservative, and going after left-wing organizations and trying to smear them or whatever.
00:32:09.000Well, I mean, there's a lot of examples to the contrary.
00:32:12.000I mean, we went after the Republican Attorney General of New Hampshire recently because his deputy said that there was no such thing as voter ID in the state, and I confronted Gordon McDonald, who is a Republican, who works for Chris Sununu, who is a Republican.
00:32:23.000There are examples in Amy Robach, the Jeffrey Epstein video.
00:32:26.000That wasn't conservative or liberal, that was actually plotted by liberals, and suddenly the New Republic was like, is James O'Keefe legitimate now?
00:32:33.000They actually have a headline that said that.
00:32:35.000It's like the moment I go after the NRA, we live in a world not of angels but angles, where people don't ever think that our motives are pure.
00:32:48.000What's going to happen to him eventually is that whistleblowers are just going to trust me because I don't settle lawsuits and don't back down.
00:32:53.000And there's going to be 10, 20, 30, 40% of our sources that just bring us straight up corruption.
00:32:58.000If someone comes to me, Republicans ripping up ballots, I will air that video.
00:33:01.000I guarantee, I swear to God, if someone gives me a video of Republican congressmen, I'm publishing the video, but I don't get videos of Republicans.
00:33:12.000I get a guy in Minnesota who says, absentee ballot.
00:34:42.000So anyway, what I was getting to in terms of the bias accusations against you, what I really love about this was when you're publishing Google.
00:34:51.000Is Google a left-wing institution now?
00:34:52.000When they say that you're targeting liberal organizations or leftists, they're almost admitting that these big tech companies Are.
00:35:23.000If they're helping left-wing parties Democrat parties in advertising on Google, that triggered an FEC violation.
00:35:30.000I think, speaking of the Washington Post, and how social media amplifies a lot of what these journalists do, verifying them, giving them credibility, I love it when I see a verified journalist with 300 followers.
00:35:42.000Well, they're verified, they work for the news outlet, that's why it's important, I guess.
00:35:48.000In, I think it may have been 2016, it's been a while now, the Washington Post published a story That insinuated, out of thin air, that Kim.com, the notorious mega-upload hacker, fabricated a trove of emails, or something, to- I got a pair- It's been a long time since I've covered this story, but they basically wrote this story claiming that he may have hacked Seth Rich's email account, or tried to break into Seth Rich's email account.
00:36:13.000to plant a trove of fake emails to prove quote-unquote prove the Seth Rich conspiracy theory that was it the DNC staffer Seth Rich leaked emails that that's the conspiracy I guess to WikiLeaks they made this whole story up completely fabricated So the general story was that someone in the Rich family got a mega-upload email saying they signed up.
00:36:35.000And from that tidbit, this guy, Dave Weigel, at the Washington Post, fabricated this whole thing.
00:36:42.000So I went on Twitter, I found his number, and I called him.
00:36:45.000And I was like, you know, I think I sent him a signal message, like, I was very polite, very professional, saying, Hi, my name is Tim Poole, I'm a journalist.
00:36:54.000I'm curious as to your sources, to verify, blah, blah, blah.
00:36:57.000And he just was like, Oh, what is this?
00:37:02.000A fake story was written to smear Kim.com and people who were concerned about WikiLeaks' release with no evidence, and then I think it was maybe six or eight months later, they went back and changed the entire story.
00:37:16.000And you can track all of this on newsdiffs.org, which I'm not sure if they exist anymore, but at the time, they showed you the difference from the original article and the article as it was changed in November.
00:37:27.000I think it was published in May, I think.
00:37:29.000It was a smear, a hit job, and then after the dust settles, in November, they go in and they change all the language without telling anybody.
00:37:40.000So when you have the Washington Post, for instance, that does something like that, and I've seen it, they endorse Joe Biden, and then they put up this false Twitter fact check.
00:37:48.000Twitter had this fake fact check up for days.
00:37:55.000But I just wanna say, while you're talking to me about this, the people on your show, the people watching this, there are insiders that are reaching out to our encrypted ProtonMail address right now.
00:38:49.000There are people working for tech companies watching Tim Pool's livecast right now who are emailing Project Veritas right now, on the inside.
00:41:13.000I have a video from a couple years ago that's got over a million views about men not wanting to help women and children because they might get accused or something like that.
00:41:20.000And so it was always just like, what was the news cycle?
00:41:25.000And now that we're in this big election cycle, especially coming after 2018 with They've ramped up like crazy all the anti-Trump stuff and the street violence.
00:41:35.000Look, if all of this stuff goes away after the election night, you know, Joe Biden wins in a landslide, Trump shakes his hand, they wave, and then everything's back to the Obama years, which is never going to happen, then, you know, I'll be off, you know, in, you know, I don't know, Middle East or something, covering some conflict or crisis like I was doing eight years ago.
00:41:52.000But it's the way I explain it to people.
00:41:54.000I had a friend hit me up and say, you know, there's this huge unrest in Thailand right now.
00:42:02.000There's an election happening right now, and the most important story to me that I care about is the US election, media censorship, manipulation, and what's going to happen to us after January 20th.
00:42:15.000If, you know, six years ago, I was in Thailand, you know, I was in Turkey, I was in these countries because that was the most important thing I could see.
00:42:22.000were kind of just, you know, moseying along, but everything started to change.
00:42:27.000I don't know where we're ending up, but I tell you this, there's a lot of people who seem to think that voting for Joe Biden will bring them back to those good old days, the Obama year.
00:42:34.000No, you know, it's never going back to normal.
00:44:19.000And I had a conversation, believe it or not, there's a lot of Hollywood celebrities, rock stars, musicians, artists, et cetera, who are secretly pro-Trump.
00:44:26.000And many of them hit me up, pro-skateboarders even, you know.
00:45:05.000Like, sending me a message being like, I'm in tears right now, I'm crying, I'm so scared, I, you know, I can't believe what's happening in this country.
00:45:11.000And these are celebrities and things like that, so, you know, I bring this up just to say... Oh, I forgot exactly where I was gonna go with this, but my, you know, my point from there is that there's a lot of people who, believe it or not, are cool and don't want to be on the left.
00:45:26.000So that was kind of the point I was saying is that Republicans aren't cool.
00:45:29.000Right. But I've gotten hit up by now probably like three or four different
00:47:02.000It used to be the right back when I was growing up, and, you know, the religious right, moral authoritarians, putting labels on things and banning things.
00:48:07.000But now it's, this change is happening and that's, I think, there's a couple different ways to view what's happening whatever it is on the right.
00:48:15.000You've got laughter, comedy, you know they try to cancel all the comedians claiming that they're bigots or far right or whatever.
00:48:22.000So if you can't have a good time, what do you got?
00:48:24.000But now you've got artists, you've got video games, you've got people that are now associating themselves with either Trump or just the right in terms of the culture war, and they are creative and charismatic and interesting and exciting.
00:51:47.000And the New York Times puts out an article, Tim, two hours before the presidential debate, because I'm pretty sure Trump was going to mention this.
00:51:53.000You know, he's talking about fraud, ballot fraud.
00:51:55.000And it says, you know, videos are part of a coordinated disinformation campaign, experts say.
00:52:02.000Who are these experts? Stanford University researchers who they pay.
00:52:07.000So what's interesting about this, and this is something that, you know, again going back to the Soviet Union,
00:52:11.000they tend to project onto me that which they are.
00:52:16.000They are the thing that they hate, and they accuse me of doing the thing that they do.
00:52:21.000And they do it first, and they do it well.
00:52:23.000And it's an incredibly effective Machiavellian tactic.
00:52:26.000So they come out and say it's a coordinated disinformation campaign, when that's precisely what the New York Times is doing.
00:52:30.000Now I'm going to speculate for a minute.
00:52:32.000I think the executive editor of the New York Times knew that was defamatory, and it is, and I would win on summary judgment if I sue them, and I'm about to, but they told me they're going to retract the article.
00:52:39.000We'll see if they retract in the coming days, and if they don't, I'll suit them for defamation.
00:52:43.000So that pulls the teeth out of any suit?
00:52:45.000The fact that they said, oh yeah, we're going to retract?
00:52:46.000Yeah, the General Counsel said that they're going to make a correction.
00:52:49.000But the USA Today has already used the article, so the USA Today is going to have to print a retraction.
00:52:55.000Well, let me just finish the point about... So I threatened to suit for defamation, the New York Times.
00:53:02.000And they basically say that it's a disinformation campaign.
00:53:05.000The New York Times, I think they made a utilitarian calculus and said, we know this is defamatory, but we need to muddy the waters of O'Keefe's work three weeks before the election, and we'll just deal with it two years from now in a trial.
00:53:41.000We put a video out, USA Today quotes the New York Times, Facebook views USA Today as credible, and sends a notification out to every single person who has
00:53:51.000ever shared that Minnesota video. I got texts from everyone in the country
00:53:54.000James Facebook just told me you're fake news. And I think we've got my
00:53:58.000attorney says and I don't want to be in the litigation business Tim because
00:54:01.000there's only so many people I can sue my general counsel told me today is like what about suing
00:54:13.000They only care, the only thing they respond to is a threat to their power.
00:54:18.000And I have not, and this is a pretty extraordinary accomplishment, I don't mean to brag, Project Veritas Corporation has never lost a lawsuit.
00:54:47.000Facebook's liaison for politics told me they can't do anything about it because it's the organizations that post the fact check.
00:54:55.000The fact-checking organization told me to basically shove it, even though they knew what I posted was true, they have the power to deem it fake news.
00:55:01.000Even though the link they put on it confirmed everything I said.
00:55:05.000Which made me think, no, Facebook's the one who published that.
00:55:09.000When Facebook sends a notification to your followers, or to people who have shared the story, that you are fake news, that's Facebook making a statement.
00:55:19.000I think you should challenge their Section 230 protections under the rules that they are not fairly moderating, and they personally made, Facebook made, a defamatory statement in that presumably algorithmic response they put out.
00:55:32.000This is a very important point you're making, and I want your audience to know that it's very important we fight back.
00:55:37.000It is a pain in the butt, but I have to sue these people.
00:56:32.000Well, if USA Today came out and said that what you did was fake news and they were wrong, can you force Facebook through litigation to discredit USA Today henceforth?
00:57:01.000And media establishments... No, no, no.
00:57:02.000It's a disinformation campaign, according to the New York Times.
00:57:05.000So, you have to... As an entrepreneur, I've had to build a whole division within Project Veritas to just fire legal letters off to publications every day.
00:57:12.000We have, like, two people doing that every single day now.
00:57:14.000For people that want to start an organization like very hard.
00:57:18.000So walk me through How did you start the organization and how did you build it out?
00:57:23.000I mean the bit as they say in in economics the barriers to entry or to The only other person that I know of that has tried to do this and was very effective as David Daleiden Center for medical progress.
00:57:36.000He did the Planned Parenthood baby harvesting videos and And he was instantly sued by everyone.
00:58:02.000You're bringing in money from donors, you're getting millions and millions of views, you know, you're breaking these huge stories that I think, what, you got like 8 million views or what was it the last?
00:58:11.00020 million, on Twitter, one video is 20 million.
00:58:14.000Well, so what's a regular person going to do?
00:58:17.000I mean, look, when I got defamed by the Today, you know, the Today show put a picture of my face up on TV and claimed I was a conspiracy theorist.
00:58:25.000And it was totally, what they accused me of was made up entirely.
00:59:22.000But I think there's, Tim, there is a tiny fraction of people that are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for a cause greater than themselves.
00:59:30.000And the greatest sacrifice right now in this world appears to be giving up your reputation And that is a sacrifice that few people are willing to give up and there are people wanting to do that and that's what they can do.
00:59:42.000Well, I guess what I mean is if John Doe, plumber in Minnesota, gets defamed by the New York Times, what's he gonna do about it?
00:59:52.000I mean, granted, public figures have different standards.
00:59:54.000This regular guy can, you know, have an easier go of it for defamation.
00:59:59.000You know, when Nick Sandman was smeared across the board, they actually argued he was an involuntary public figure, meaning they can put a camera in your face and then claim you're a public figure and that's their defense.
01:00:08.000Granted, there needs to be more organizational entrepreneurs like you.
01:01:08.000Well, yeah, but they were a nation of laws. And in the federal court system, you can win.
01:01:14.000In the federal court system in this country, I mean, Trump appointed, like, I don't know how many, 200 federal judges.
01:01:19.000There are Article 3 constitutionally appointed federal judges who believe in the rule of law.
01:01:24.000I took it all the way to a jury verdict in this case in North Carolina with this Democracy Partners individual who sued me for quoting her.
01:02:22.000When you actually deconstruct all the BS, And you actually take it all the way to a jury and to an appeals court.
01:02:30.000There's still some semblance of the rule of law in this country, and people need to sue media corporations, and they have to go all the way.
01:03:40.000There were many times, I'll give you one quick story, anecdote.
01:03:42.000from that North Carolina case, where they put me in a room with these plaintiffs, the people sue me, and they have an arbitration hearing.
01:03:50.000They try to negotiate, and the judge comes in there and he goes, now O'Keefe, you could lose, you could lose your company, you could risk it all.
01:03:56.000Why don't you just give this person $25,000 and call it?
01:04:00.000You're going to spend a million dollars, O'Keefe.
01:04:13.000If I have to go bankrupt, if I have to give it all away, if I have to liquidate the clothes and my watch and go bankrupt, I have to be willing to risk everything in order to stand on principle.
01:04:24.000You have to be willing to do that if you want to play in this game.
01:04:29.000If you are going to give them an inch or sacrifice your principles or sell out or fear anyone, don't even start it.
01:04:36.000I don't think people realize when I say, you know, I've had people message me saying, Tim, Tim, you know, you've talked about you get banned and you get in your van and just go off, live down by the river.
01:04:45.000No, you gotta tell people to be strong, you're gonna keep fighting.
01:04:48.000And I'm like, well, listen, you know what I'm saying when I say I'm absolutely happy living out down by the river with nothing?
01:06:24.000And anyone who comes up with some ingenious paradoxical way to make a profit doing real investigative reporting, it costs us a million dollars sometimes to do a story.
01:06:34.000I was at a big investors meeting for a major, there's a major, major company that invests in all these different media companies, and I'm not going to say these names or anything, but you know what they told me?
01:06:42.000I said, if you are an investigative journalist, and you come to me, an investor, and make me a proposition, you give me $300,000, and I'm gonna investigate this story for the next year.
01:06:53.000My first question is, what do you project to accomplish by the end of that year?
01:06:58.000And you know what every investigative journalist says?
01:07:24.000Yeah, yeah, the rage, the clickbait, the woke clickbait stuff is, you know, what's the guy who, the girl who resigned from the New York Times and said, I'm just sick and tired of seeing a thousand anti-Trump, what was her name?
01:07:38.000Barry Weiss said that quote, it was very eloquently stated, I don't remember, it was something to the effect of, I'm just tired of seeing all the anti-Trump stuff.
01:07:45.000How many more articles on the op-ed page do you need to see?
01:07:47.000So there's a hunger for information, but I think the real meat and potatoes of what fundamentally the issues are is people need to have more courage, and there needs to be more people like you, and people who are organizational entrepreneurs, so you're a creative person who also runs your own company.
01:08:04.000And you have to, and Tom Fitton and I were talking about this,
01:08:06.000the Judicial Watch guy, and he said, James, you're an entrepreneur journalist.
01:08:11.000And I realized in my life that, okay, so I can't settle the lawsuit,
01:08:16.000but in order not to settle the lawsuit, I have to raise millions of dollars.
01:08:20.000How am I going to raise, I had to figure this stuff out.
01:08:24.000And I never thought, in my craziest imagination, that I'd have 50 plus employees,
01:08:30.000and traveling around the United States, jettisoning around, getting checks from foundations.
01:08:36.000But it wasn't my stated goal to do that.
01:08:39.000I wanted to do whatever was right, and I had to learn how to do all this other stuff
01:09:31.000So the IRS, I think this is absurd, but the IRS says if I investigate a politician within 90 days of an election, I am doing, you know, Political action.
01:10:01.000If we're investigating Hillary Clinton or a senator from Arizona, a lot of these people in the states, these employees for Senate candidates will privately admit that their bosses are lying about their progressive views.
01:10:17.000They're minimizing them in order to get elected.
01:10:20.000And once they get elected, they'll do all the things that they told you they couldn't do.
01:10:23.000I'm going to ask you this question, I'm pretty sure everyone can guess what your answer is going to be.
01:10:27.000Have you ever deceptively edited a video for any reason?
01:10:34.000We've done hundreds of investigations, and I will list right here, right now, the specific things that they talk about, like mistakes I've made, if you want to call them that.
01:10:45.000In the Acorn investigation, which is the one most of my critics will bring up, they'll say, he didn't wear the pimp costume!
01:12:05.000So I bring this up because I remember when, I can't remember exactly what expose you did, but they said you deceptively edit videos and you secretly record people so, you know, it's unethical.
01:12:16.000And at the same time, Channel 4 in the UK did this big undercover expose on like Brexit supporters or something.
01:12:22.000And I'm sitting on Twitter and I'm like, wait a minute, they're praising this and condemning this at the exact same time, it's the exact same thing.
01:12:28.000No, it's the deceptive editing is just, I mean, all journalism is edited in a selective fashion.
01:12:36.000Bob Woodward, in his book Fear, and the new book, which I don't even know the name of the new book he wrote, but Bob Woodward uses deep background sourcing.
01:12:44.000And something that Tom Wolfe invented, like this new journalism, this thing where, Tim, he meets with a source, and the source tells him a story on hearsay, and then he puts the quotes from the one source in other quotes, and he tells it like it's a direct quote.
01:13:00.000What is that if not selective editing?
01:13:02.000Our stuff, every word you can see the person's lips moving, and it's just almost It's asinine if you actually think it's pathological if you think about it that journalists like Bob Woodward who quote people who quote other people and then he puts that stuff in quotes is saying that I selectively edit when you can see the person's lips moving.
01:13:23.000So what you begin to realize when you open your eyes is It's worse than 1984.
01:13:28.000As Gavin McGinnis says, it's become almost a Kafkaesque nightmare.
01:13:45.000There's a metaphor I was thinking about that is if you're in the military and you're under fire in the military, if you hunker down and sit there, they're gonna kill you.
01:13:52.000They're gonna zero in on you and surround you and kill you.
01:15:37.000And so it reminds me of... I can't remember which dystopian novel this is, where they excise you from society.
01:15:44.000You're free to move around, but everyone just ignores you, and they won't talk to you, and you're like an other, and you can't shop or anything.
01:15:52.000If anyone out there has info about the SWIFT global payment system and wants to contact Project Veritas to uncover that corrupt, centralized thing.
01:16:00.000Because if they ban you off the SWIFT payment system, you can't use Visa, you can't use MasterCard.
01:17:14.000So from that standpoint, they'll start using the New York Times and the Washington Post as a gauge of whether or not another organization is credible, creating this bias feedback loop.
01:18:18.000They give Media Matters of America green checks across the board.
01:18:22.000For those that don't know, Media Matters doesn't do journalism at all.
01:18:25.000It is just a group of activists that complain about their opinions on other organizations and make things up, quite literally fabricate things that aren't true.
01:18:45.000Okay, but let me just say something about this because this is pretty, this is 778,000 followers on Twitter and I'm not a verified human being.
01:18:53.000And I think at some point it's like, it's actually a badge of honor to not to be verified.
01:18:59.000Like, so this whole, I think the inverse is true, like we're not verified, we're not credible, but when people like that do that to me, And the powers that be, like USA Today has to do that thing and Facebook has to send that ridiculous notification.
01:19:30.000It's kind of a, you know, I'm pioneering here with my logic, but it seems to me, and I've thought about this not being verified thing.
01:19:38.000I don't know many, there's only a handful of people that are in this league where they've got a million followers and they do all this work that everyone's always talking, and they're not verified.
01:19:49.000In many ways, that is a kind of verification, isn't it?
01:19:51.000Yeah, you're kind of like, what's the right word for it?
01:21:41.000just so just these people are so filled with hate and so what we do is we you know you know we do we frame the retractions put them on the wall yep Dave Weigel has two retractions in his honor and And he'll hate me for the rest of his life for it, I'm sure.
01:22:04.000Well, so here's what I'm thinking, right?
01:22:06.000You keep exposing this stuff and it becomes more and more apparent and evident that there's some kind of...
01:22:12.000I mean, look, you've got corrupted individuals at high-ranking institutions, media companies are lying to us, social media companies.
01:22:20.000We see it in the documentary, The Social Dilemma.
01:22:22.000We've got a bunch of former executives saying straight up, they're manipulating you on purpose, and it's making people go crazy, and it's creating this massive partisan divide.
01:22:49.000Social media companies are banning conservatives and anti-establishment like I don't want I don't it's not necessarily just conservatives I don't necessarily know what that means anymore anyway but it's people who are not associated with the establishment left who challenge the system are more likely to get banned and many of them happen to be conservative.
01:23:05.000By getting rid of fringe elements and bombastic elements of the right, the only thing that's left are regular-looking conservative individuals like, you look like a normal guy, James O'Keefe.
01:23:16.000You've got people like Will Chamberlain, who, just suit-wearing, lawyer, Trump supporter, very calm, rational guy.
01:23:47.000When you look at the Pew research showing the Democrats have moved very, very far left in terms of... It's consistently liberal, meaning they don't hold any conservative views or negotiate with conservatives, and conservatives have barely moved at all to the right.
01:24:00.000Conservatives are staying where they are.
01:24:23.000My main segment today, Gallup, shows that today there is a party affiliation poll at the last, the latest update they have from September 14th to 28th shows there is a Republican plus one advantage in party affiliation in this country.
01:24:38.000Four years ago, in the same time duration, it was Democrat plus five.
01:24:45.000So that means what we're seeing now is several percentage points of Democrats no longer identify as Democrat.
01:24:51.000A couple now identify as independent and some identify as Republican.
01:24:55.000So they're being driven away from the Democratic Party.
01:24:57.000What I think is happening is the things you expose, the thing we're seeing, I think, well, I absolutely think you're having an impact.
01:25:04.000And I think that people are starting to see through the facade, realizing these people are going insane, what they're promoting is insane, and now they believe they're Republican or Independent, they're leaving the Democratic Party because of it.
01:25:57.000In other words, you can jump on a grenade.
01:25:58.000I mean, nothing that I do, or we do, or anybody journals, it is not even close to the comparison of something like a Marcus Luttrell, who saw his combat veterans go overseas and die for their country.
01:26:13.000And I don't know if people ask them do they fear for their lives, but these are people that go overseas and make the ultimate sacrifice for a cause.
01:27:05.000Well, most people aren't going to do it, but you don't need most people.
01:27:08.000You just need .001% of the people to do it.
01:27:10.000You know what you can do is call her office and you can coordinate calling campaigns because if you get another thousand people to call her office at 2 p.m.
01:27:18.000on Thursday and then do it again on Friday and again on Monday, you will change people's minds.
01:28:25.000My, of the channels I control, two of them are blacklisted on Google.
01:28:28.000You cannot Google search TimCast or TimCast News.
01:28:31.000If you do, only this show comes up, because this show is new.
01:28:34.000At some point, they removed my main YouTube channels from Google so they cannot be searched for.
01:28:40.000Taking away all of that information, and the only reason any of it works is because people on YouTube might be linked to it, or people are sharing it.
01:28:48.000So I tell you this, man, if you think, if you watching, there's, well, I'll say there's two things you can do.
01:28:52.000If you think what James is doing is important, and the information you're exposing, then share those videos, and then, just to throw back to what you said, what was your email address?
01:29:02.000It's VeritasTips, that's V-E-R-I-T-A-S Tips, at protonmail.com, fully encrypted, Also, projectveritas.com backslash brave if you want to sign up to work for us or do anything else like that.
01:29:27.000I don't want, I think people need to realize you're much more powerful than you realize, and there are things you can do, literally, by, you go to work and you can be like, hey, did you guys see that thing from Project Veritas?
01:32:01.000And to me, that was the hardest part, was accepting, was literally saying, I'm not going to read the comments, and I'm not going to give a shit about Wikipedia, I'm just going to move forward.
01:32:11.000For me, it was very hard to accept being hated.
01:32:17.000I had a guy, an advisor, who said to me many years ago, I was disgusted by all the attacks, vicious attacks, people trying to infiltrate me, women, all types of weird situations.
01:32:27.000And he said, James, it's a badge of honor that they do this to you.
01:32:32.000And his name was Steve, and he told me this, and I went, oh my God.
01:32:36.000It's a badge of honor that they attack you in this sick, twisted, underhanded way.
01:33:20.000You know, CNN, I wanted to be liked initially.
01:33:26.000There's a large part of me that wanted to be respected by these establishments because I respect their power.
01:33:33.000And the moment you stop caring about what the executive editor of the New York Times thinks, the moment you don't care is the moment you are truly free.
01:33:41.000This is the moment you are free to do the good things that you need to do.
01:33:45.000But there's always 4% of you, because you're human, there's 4%, maybe for me it's down to almost 1%, where you're like, you know what, part of me still cares.
01:33:54.000I bring this up because I think you will get your due.
01:33:59.000I'll tell you this right now, I'm pretty sure there are young people who look up to you and you're the person they're looking up to as a young person.
01:34:07.000They're going to grow up and you're going to give them that respect that you wanted for from these institutions.
01:34:11.000As long as you don't sell out, back down, compromise, settle a lawsuit.
01:34:16.000The arc of the moral universe, I always quote Martin Luther King, the arc of the moral universe is long and it bends towards justice.
01:34:23.000But I remember reading the New York Times in my dining hall at Rucker's.
01:34:27.000I was a freshman, sophomore, and I just sat there and read the New York Times back to back.
01:34:31.000And I was so disgusted by it, and I decided that someone should do something.
01:34:37.000I started filming my professors and ambushing them.
01:36:45.000I don't care if, you know, people get mad at me.
01:36:47.000And there have been instances where I'm like, you know, there are some high-profile people that I've looked up to when I was younger, and I'm like, I wonder what they would think about me and everything I do.
01:36:57.000I get messages from the people I used to look up to when I was 14, these pro skateboarders, who message me saying, I love your show, you're the best.
01:37:05.000And so, what I think is, it's, you just gotta stay true to yourself, and if you have principles, if you're honest, if you have integrity, you do good work, you never back down.
01:37:16.000I think then any honest person worth having respect of will give you the respect.
01:37:20.000But you must understand, and we have a curriculum, we have an ethics curriculum at Project Veritas, like we have a whole week seminar where we bring in journalists, and I spend the first day talking about ethics, like I'm obsessed with the history of undercover work, because if you don't have integrity, nothing matters.
01:37:36.000Now what's interesting and ironic about this is that they will, the first thing they will do is say you have no integrity.
01:37:42.000So the more integrity you have, The more you will be attacked for having no integrity.
01:37:48.000And that creates a feedback loop, or that creates a self-fulfilling prophecy, a reverse incentive, a perverse incentive, where you will actually not have integrity so that you are branded as having an integrity.
01:38:00.000And I'm telling you, the hardest part, if you want to do this, anything like this, is to accept being hated by all the people you want to be liked by.
01:38:10.000You have to be hated by... Who's the guy in Tom Ardell in True Lies?
01:38:17.000Here's a guy who... I grew up watching these movies with Tom Ardell, and suddenly he's doing tweet storms about me.
01:38:42.000Hey, regarding the future, I want to ask a question about DeepFix, because your business model is to get video, and in the future there's going to be Deep fakes is when they take video and they change it, a computer modulates it so it looks real, but it's completely, you know, whatever you want to call it, fabricated.
01:39:38.000McLuhan would say it's a hot medium, television is a hot medium, so I suppose it's a little more concentrated of a problem, but you still can't intentionally lie about someone in a court of law You would lose that defamation case.
01:39:54.000So I cannot create a fake video about someone.
01:40:43.000Scott Hale says, Tim, I'm a Trump supporter for very similar reasons you are.
01:40:47.000I appreciate everything you do, but sadly, mainstream media is winning my family.
01:40:51.000Winning my family is majority Democrats and told me to my face.
01:40:54.000Any proof I physically show them is a lie.
01:40:57.000So I guess I would ask you, James, what would you tell someone if no matter what they seem to show their friends and their family don't believe it, even if you have video?
01:42:44.000He says, Every question asked by mainstream news media should be prefaced with, quote, I'd like to preface my answer with Trump denounces white supremacy and racism.
01:45:23.000It's like what Peterson talked about when if you if we were born in Nazi Germany and how many of us would do the right thing and have the balls to take on the regime and most of us don't want to admit that the truth is not what you know people oh I would oh I would be the heroic one that would take on Hitler well you know so the line that separates good and evil runs through every human heart and that's going full circle here with the Google guy today working for Google saying this stuff Um, you know, how, how culpable is he?
01:46:50.000Dave Kruppel says, I'm a tradesman, proud aviation maintainer, blue collar, and I have neither the brains nor the will to own my own business.
01:46:57.000I can't have my name and face out there with a pro-Trump opinion.
01:47:03.000A lot of people in Hollywood, you know, do this where they're, again, it's like the Samizdat, which was the revolutionary publication in the Soviet Union, and they have to whisper, you know, I agree with you.
01:47:17.000We've had it since the beginning, right?
01:47:18.000Where you don't have to disclose who you're voting for because of that, because you don't want to get harassed by your neighbors or have people come to your house and be like, you voted for this guy, so we're all coming.
01:49:13.000And then there's a more rare or an equally amazing form of courage, which is moral courage.
01:49:18.000And just imagine if someone at that Bureau of Investigation in D.C.
01:49:23.000wore one of those little hidden cameras and recorded Comey and recorded Christopher Wray.
01:49:28.000Can you imagine the difference that would make?
01:49:31.000So stop whining about things and instead think about how you can contribute to that objective in any way, matter, shape or form.
01:49:42.000But the negative energy and the cynicism is starting to piss me off because I happen to represent an organization that has a lot of people right this minute working for tech companies emailing us Asking for hidden cameras.
01:49:55.000So, you can choose to live your life cynical and pissed off and whining, or you can contribute to the vision and the mission of actually trying to do something about it.
01:52:43.000I think this is a really important super chat.
01:52:45.000I have no idea what this person saw, but imagine you are somebody who is witnessing now something you know is wrong, you know is very wrong.
01:52:52.000Do you just sit there and do nothing or do you be brave?
01:53:24.000And if you're sitting there next to your boss, your supervisor, doing some illegal activity, you're like, well, I'm going to lose my My home, my mortgage, my reputation.
01:53:33.000But what if there was an organization that had my back?
01:53:36.000So CNN, Cary Porch, the guy that blew the whistle on Jeff Zucker's phone calls, I think he raised $120,000 on GoFundMe after that.
01:53:42.000Is GoFundMe going to keep allowing that?
01:53:52.000And he got hired by someone who was a freedom person.
01:53:56.000Again, I think the 21st century is different than the 20th as it pertains to whistleblowers.
01:54:00.000So if you're sitting there in a work environment and you're thinking, right now someone's thinking, maybe I should report on my colleague racketeering or stealing money from the federal government, all I need to do is take a picture of that deal.
01:54:14.000But if I do that, then I'll lose my job.
01:54:19.00099.9% of you won't do it, but if 0.1% of you do it, you'll change the world.
01:55:16.000I think we are seeing the tide change.
01:55:18.000You know what really bothers me about that whole Gretchen Whitmer thing with these guys, you want to kidnap her or whatever, is that she had already lost.
01:58:22.000I think that a lot of people view this in a black and white way, you know, like he's good or bad, and I would say that I don't view it in that dichotomy.
01:58:31.000I think someone can both be a hero and a traitor, and I don't want to cast moral judgments on what he did.
01:58:39.000I viewed Citizen Four, I viewed the documentary where, you know, he's being interviewed by Loy Poitras, He comes across as very sincere to me, maybe slightly naive in the way that I was when I started this organization, not knowing the shitstorm that would ensue.
01:58:54.000But I think that he could be quite literally, in some literal sense, a traitor, but also a hero, and the greater good is served.
01:59:02.000But that's a very complicated question, and I don't like viewing it in... Because a lot of the people that are betraying these organizations, Tim, that I work with, They are kind of traitors.
01:59:15.000If someone betrayed Project Veritas, you put anyone's life under a magnifying glass.
01:59:23.000You're going to find issues and problems.
01:59:25.000So, to betray one's country for your country, can't both things be true simultaneously?
01:59:32.000I think with Assange, he's not an American citizen, and he's a publisher.
01:59:37.000He receives leaks, he publishes them, so what they've actively been doing to Assange is criminalizing the act of journalism, whatever is political.
01:59:45.000Are we talking about Snowden or Assange?
02:00:35.000Because I'm protected under United States Supreme Court Bernanke, where if someone goes in there and hacks some stuff and then just mails it to me, of course I can publish it.
02:00:54.000Uh, this was evidenced by an interview he did with, I think it was John Oliver, where he wasn't familiar with some of the information he leaked.
02:01:00.000So a whistleblower says, here's the thing that's bad, or here are multiple things that are bad.
02:01:44.000He did break the law, many federal laws probably.
02:01:47.000So it's a very strange philosophical dichotomy.
02:01:52.000I think overall exposing people spying and violating our Fourth Amendment rights is the public's right to know is paramount, but you have to break laws that are serious laws.
02:02:03.000And by the way, you know what one of our ethical rules at Project Veritas is?
02:02:53.000Some say it has to do with old pre-World War II electronics about lockout switches.
02:02:59.000Some say it has to do with the prohibition era of a business that was on 86th Street, where the cops would tip off the bar saying, 86, the customers.
02:03:07.000Push them out the door to 86th Street, the cops come in on the other street.
02:03:10.000So others say it means 80 miles out and six feet under.
02:03:37.000I don't worry about that too much, but we do take precautions.
02:03:42.000I think the way that they've tried to hurt us so far is to use the justice system against us, like jail and prosecution and reputational threats.
02:03:52.000But I think we're getting to the point now where you do have to be worried about not someone trying to assassinate you, but a crazy lunatic who's an anomaly.
02:04:33.000There are some stories where you just get killed.
02:04:36.000And I haven't... I've yet to find a one... I've yet to find a story, and this is honest to God truth, that I've gotten that I didn't publish because I was afraid.
02:05:01.000We'll do one more that you've already answered, but just to wrap up on.
02:05:05.000Chris Stroud says, James, if someone brought you info on a right-wing organization, Fox News for example, and offered to expose them via hidden camera, would you do that, or do you only focus on exposing left-wing organizations?
02:05:55.000The thing about ethics, the beauty and bane of ethics, is it's completely circumstantial.
02:06:02.000There are no universal rules about journalism ethics.
02:06:05.000I go back to the Hemingway quote, that you're better off, the real ethical issue, this is a little deep, but you're better off for having done it.
02:06:15.000Because it's not necessarily journalism does harm people.
02:06:25.000If your objective is to reduce harm in the Kantian sense, in the categorical imperative sense, never use someone as a means, you can't actually do journalism.
02:06:34.000So in every case it's a situational test.
02:06:37.000that you evaluate the specific factors. But the answer, the bottom line is, I would publish the
02:06:42.000story about Republicans, conservatives, and I think that we will do more of that,
02:06:49.000and I think the media is going to have a huge problem on their hands because they're not going
02:06:53.000to be able to say, well, he's just an ideologue. Well, what are they going to say when it's
02:06:56.000someone that they don't like, the NRA or... They cheered you for it with the Epstein thing.
02:07:00.000In one story, it was like, suddenly they're like, oh, can we like this guy now?
02:07:05.000And I think that says a lot about them.
02:07:52.000So if your argument against me is that I only expose big tech and government bureaus, if that's your argument that I'm discredited because my beat, that's not consistent with any historical view of investigative reporting.
02:08:09.000The question is, is what you're posting true?
02:08:41.000Well, thanks for hanging out, everybody.
02:08:42.000Make sure you smash that like button on the way out.
02:08:44.000We've got awesome guests throughout the week.
02:08:47.000Of course, Thursday is going to be the debate, so I don't think we'll be live then, but we're going to have a really great show tomorrow talking big tech censorship, kind of following up on some of your reporting and probably bringing up more of your reporting.
02:08:56.000So make sure to smash the like button.