Timcast IRL - Tim Pool - Timcast IRL - Proud Boys Trend After Viral Video Claims They Attacked BLM, Robby Soave Guests

00:00:00.000 you you

00:00:04.000 you the other day at a Trump rally clashes broke out between

00:00:37.000 Black Lives Matter leftists and some Trump supporters

00:00:39.000 Now, it looks like from photos there are some Proud Boys who are there.

00:00:43.000 But the news, the story, and the viral trend all say that Proud Boys attacked these Black Lives Matter leftists.

00:00:50.000 There's a viral tweet saying that these two men who, like, chase after a guy and knock him down are, in fact, Proud Boys.

00:00:55.000 But apparently, they're not.

00:00:57.000 And I noticed this right away.

00:00:59.000 I didn't think it was that big of a deal because this viral tweet was claiming it was Proud Boys.

00:01:02.000 But it is still apparently Trump supporters or some conservatives, they end up getting arrested.

00:01:07.000 And I think there's something really important we should talk about because already the media is latching onto this.

00:01:12.000 It is the Proud Boys.

00:01:13.000 The Proud Boys did this.

00:01:15.000 And it's because there happened to have been a couple Proud Boys at the event.

00:01:18.000 This is what I've been talking about.

00:01:20.000 If the right goes out, and everybody knows this, Well, I should say most conservatives know this.

00:01:24.000 The media is going to immediately claim the right of the bad guys, they're the aggressors.

00:01:28.000 Already we saw it with Joe Biden.

00:01:29.000 You get months and months of leftists, riots, and destruction, firebombs, molotovs, and then you get one rally where Trump supporters drive through Portland.

00:01:39.000 Not only that, but a Trump supporter actually gets killed by one of these leftists and Joe Biden says, Trump's got to tell his militias to stay out of here.

00:01:45.000 And that's what I said was gonna happen, but you don't need me to say it because I think most of you know this.

00:01:50.000 But I think this is just another story in... I hate to say it because it becomes so routine with the excessive clashes and the fights between the left and the right.

00:02:01.000 And admittedly, I don't think the right goes out there all that often.

00:02:05.000 But we got a bunch of other stories to talk about beyond this.

00:02:07.000 We've got schools are calling police because they're watching these webcams of kids, and apparently there's like a toy gun or something, so the cops have to come for a wellness check.

00:02:17.000 And we got... You know what?

00:02:19.000 I hate to say it this way.

00:02:20.000 I find this to be hilarious, but not... Look, Disney thanked the Xinjiang security forces that are apparently helping run concentration camps because they helped make Mulan, and it's sparking this big boycott.

00:02:33.000 And this, to me, is like... You know, there's Get What Go Broke, and now there's something well beyond it, like Get Authoritarian Communist Pro-China Go Broke, and now there's a boycott because apparently everybody wants to boycott this.

00:02:44.000 But we've got a really great guest.

00:02:45.000 To help us sort through these news stories, we've got Rabe Suave.

00:02:49.000 How's it going, man?

00:02:50.000 You want to introduce yourself?

00:02:51.000 Sure.

00:02:51.000 Nice to be with you.

00:02:52.000 My name is Rabe Suave.

00:02:53.000 I'm a senior editor at Reason Magazine and the author of this book, Panic Attack, Young Radicals in the Age of Trump.

00:03:01.000 Already promoting the book right off the get-go.

00:03:03.000 I mean, it's here.

00:03:03.000 Well, so actually, no, I wanted him to bring it up because you're basically talking about this college leftist activism.

00:03:09.000 Yeah.

00:03:10.000 And the other reason I think it's great to have you here, a lot of people might not know this, but it was you and I, I guess for the most part, had the most prominent takedowns of the Covington fake news right when it happened.

00:03:20.000 Right.

00:03:21.000 So, I'm sure most of you who are listening are familiar with what happened with the Covington kids.

00:03:25.000 Some dude was, you know, Nick Sandman was standing on the stairs, minding his own business, basically, while the other kids were dancing.

00:03:31.000 And then this Native American guy walks up to him, banging a drum.

00:03:34.000 The media ran the story completely backwards, claiming the kid went up to him.

00:03:37.000 And then I ended up seeing the videos and being like, whoa, that's BS.

00:03:41.000 You ended up seeing basically the same thing and calling it out immediately.

00:03:44.000 And then all of a sudden, I noticed you right away.

00:03:46.000 I was like, oh, this guy gets it.

00:03:47.000 This guy's calling out the fake news.

00:03:49.000 But real quick, how did you immediately break that?

00:03:53.000 I just Googled the videos and I looked, right?

00:03:53.000 Because I know how I did.

00:03:56.000 Yeah, I was sitting down to write something about this.

00:03:59.000 I saw that everybody was weighing in on this.

00:04:01.000 It was all over my Twitter feed.

00:04:03.000 And when I started to write about it, I'm like, well, I should make sure I know what the whole story is.

00:04:07.000 And at that time, the longer clip was emerging that was showing the black Hebrew Israelites.

00:04:13.000 That there was some argument really started by Nathan Phillips' entourage as the Native American people were trying to argue with the boys.

00:04:22.000 So I'm like, okay, well, I'll watch this whole thing.

00:04:23.000 And then when you watch that whole thing, it's a much, much different picture than just like a very brief video of them having this confrontation.

00:04:31.000 There's just so much more context to it.

00:04:32.000 And the context makes it very clear that Nick Sandman was not engaged in racially motivated harassment of this man.

00:04:39.000 So I think the other interesting thing, too, that we'll definitely dive into is it's not young radicals in the age of Trump anymore.

00:04:46.000 They're working at the companies.

00:04:46.000 They've graduated.

00:04:47.000 They've brought all of that stuff from colleges out into the real world.

00:04:51.000 And now they're sort of wreaking havoc.

00:04:54.000 Well, now we live on campus.

00:04:56.000 Campus is everywhere.

00:04:58.000 Wow.

00:04:59.000 Well, defunding the police is a step towards that, for sure.

00:05:01.000 I mean, would you agree?

00:05:03.000 What do you think?

00:05:04.000 Um, I would take the Biden line that we should reallocate probably some funding.

00:05:08.000 Um, I certainly think for sure, but like the conflict we're seeing in the streets needs to be handled by the police.

00:05:15.000 Yeah, definitely.

00:05:15.000 Definitely.

00:05:16.000 I think, I think I don't want the police to not arrest people engaged in violence and looting.

00:05:20.000 Well that's what, I mean the more, like they ran a story in an op-ed in the New York Times, yes we mean abolish the police.

00:05:27.000 I think that's an offshoot of these college campus kids who, we saw Evergreen where they all had, you see that photo where they're like at the baseball bats and they're like flexing?

00:05:36.000 That's what it feels like.

00:05:37.000 It was on the campus, they were walking around swinging bats at people, now they're in the streets doing it, and it's just getting worse and worse.

00:05:42.000 Yes, but abolish the police is disingenuous in that way, because they don't actually want to abolish the police, they want to become the police.

00:05:49.000 Exactly.

00:05:50.000 They are the police.

00:05:51.000 And their jurisdiction extends to what you think and what you say, not just crimes you would commit, but your views are something they should be able to adjudicate in a criminal-type setting.

00:06:03.000 Are you worried this is going to expand?

00:06:05.000 I mean, you're basically outlining authoritarian thought policing.

00:06:10.000 It has expanded.

00:06:12.000 It's moved, just like you were saying, off the college campus.

00:06:14.000 I mean, this summer, we have seen so much in, I think, in elite media environments, on social media to some degree.

00:06:20.000 Those are the environments where the kind of woke campus student activists, whatever you want to call them, Have, have moved first into those environments, places that are disproportionately likely to hire young woke people.

00:06:32.000 And there it only takes, and I always say this, it's not like they're a majority.

00:06:36.000 They're not even a majority of young people.

00:06:38.000 It's a, it's a small number of people.

00:06:39.000 They just wield a tremendous amount of power and influence despite only being a couple of people because no one, it's a compliance culture.

00:06:46.000 No one wants to tell them no, no one wants to get themselves in trouble or canceled or whatever it is.

00:06:51.000 So they just, it's easier to give them whatever they want.

00:06:54.000 So then does that mean Trump's gonna win?

00:06:57.000 I don't know if that means Trump's going to win.

00:06:59.000 Certainly some people, probably a lot of people, end up supporting him because of that.

00:07:04.000 That pushes them, because it's like, how do you even fight this?

00:07:07.000 And they go to Trump.

00:07:08.000 And Trump, to some extent, made himself the avatar of resistance to political correctness.

00:07:12.000 Again, the terminology for it is confusing.

00:07:14.000 One thing I think is interesting, with Trump announcing he's going to ban critical race theory in the federal government, and then he targeted schools that were teaching the 1619 Project.

00:07:24.000 You had, for instance, Brian Stelter say it's bad that Trump is doing this.

00:07:29.000 You had the New York Times, I think it was, saying that Trump is now, you know, overtly the candidate for white America, not realizing at all what it is they're talking about.

00:07:38.000 And if regular people really do hate this stuff, and Trump's making that bet, then the media is making the wrong bet.

00:07:44.000 Well, and there are even, there are like mainstream normie liberals who have criticized the 1619 Project and have criticized critical race theory as taught by like Robin DiAngelo or Ibram Kendi.

00:07:55.000 And about racists, by the way.

00:07:56.000 Right.

00:07:57.000 Those people have actually, it's funny, like they've drawn a lot of criticism right now from everyone except the far left, the far progressive left.

00:08:05.000 So I'm not sure, like, Trump is getting rid of this kind of teaching that, like, almost no one thinks has any scientific validity to it.

00:08:13.000 It's a racket.

00:08:14.000 It's a racket for the people who teach it.

00:08:15.000 I don't know, man.

00:08:16.000 I think it's expanding rapidly.

00:08:18.000 I agree.

00:08:18.000 There's like, you know, Robin DiAngelo, she makes tons of money off preaching how all white people are racist.

00:08:23.000 And I'm sure you've seen that video of the morbidly obese woman saying, white people are inhuman, they're demons, now PayPal me and give me money.

00:08:30.000 Right, it's written on the chalkboard behind her.

00:08:31.000 Yeah, that's like the famous picture of exactly what critical race theory is.

00:08:36.000 But I have friends that have wholly adopted this, and I know some influential celebrities who have like, as far as I can tell, lost their minds.

00:08:44.000 Yeah, but again, it's a way of life.

00:08:47.000 It's more cultural and less ideological, I think.

00:08:50.000 It's fitting in.

00:08:51.000 It's what you do to fit in.

00:08:54.000 I think that's true of the college activist set to a degree.

00:08:56.000 Obviously, there are some true diehard people out there, but I think they get into it because it's what their friends get them into.

00:09:03.000 You know what I mean?

00:09:04.000 Yeah, well, they're surrounded by it.

00:09:05.000 Yeah, man, it's really sad.

00:09:07.000 I had a friend, a pretty good friend, and they befriended one of these, you know, grifter, cringey, weirdo, you know, uneditarian lefties.

00:09:17.000 And now all of a sudden, everything they espouse, it's like, that was who they were surrounded by.

00:09:20.000 But it's shockingly bad to the point where...

00:09:26.000 You can talk to extremists, you know, a lot of them.

00:09:31.000 And religious extremists.

00:09:33.000 Not all of them.

00:09:35.000 Some of these fundamental faiths won't hear you at all.

00:09:37.000 But there are some really hateful, nasty people and racists that you could actually have a conversation with.

00:09:42.000 And you might not agree with them, and you might actually hate them.

00:09:45.000 But on the left, man, I can't even... It's like they shut down.

00:09:48.000 Well, and you should try to have a conversation with them.

00:09:50.000 You should try to have a conversation with anybody who's an extremist.

00:09:53.000 You should try to talk them out of their extremist views.

00:09:55.000 Or more so, just let them know about the kinds of other things there are, the other options there are available.

00:10:02.000 It's hard to convince anyone of anything in a straight-up, especially if it's a confrontational kind of thing.

00:10:08.000 But a lot of people who are drawn, I think, to extremist ideas uh... get in it

00:10:13.000 into it for other reasons and they can be demotivated to event they fall out of

00:10:18.000 eventually and then you got a stop them from getting to the next extremist maybe after

00:10:21.000 this election when they you know the democrats are like okay we don't need

00:10:25.000 them anymore right a little disappear

00:10:27.000 i'm not convinced well writing

00:10:29.000 it is spreading but i think i think some of the classes on the streets

00:10:33.000 we we're seeing i mean again there's so much of else going on it

00:10:37.000 If the weather isn't as nice, if it gets cold again, people stay inside.

00:10:41.000 We were talking about this earlier, but when Obama became president, so much of the protesting just stopped.

00:10:49.000 Kind of.

00:10:49.000 Even though he didn't end up addressing a lot of what they were mad about.

00:10:53.000 But it only took a couple years for Occupy Wall Street to take over and see hundreds of thousands marching through the street in all these different cities.

00:10:58.000 Well, it'll never be stopped for forever, but I think there might be a little bit of a cooling off period.

00:11:02.000 Well, we'll talk about this.

00:11:03.000 Let's jump to the first story.

00:11:05.000 This is from Fox News, and this is really interesting.

00:11:08.000 Two arrested after Trump supporters, Proud Boys, clash with far-left demonstrators at Oregon State Capitol.

00:11:14.000 One man in a bulletproof vest beat a counter-protester with what appeared to be a baseball bat.

00:11:19.000 Because even in one video, one of these guys at the Trump rally Runs up behind some lefty dude and just like the guy's not fighting him and he just cracks him over the back of the head now Fortunately, this guy is wearing a helmet.

00:11:32.000 So maybe the Trump supporter knew he was gonna whack him with the helmet.

00:11:35.000 He'd be okay I don't care don't hit people, you know over the back of the head for any reason and don't chase after him But this is this is actually it's going immediately viral.

00:11:44.000 It's like a trend on Twitter now everyone's talking about the proud boys and And this is what's crazy.

00:11:49.000 It's interesting how Fox News has framed this because they say Proud Boys clash with Far Left.

00:11:54.000 I don't know if that's true based on what I've seen.

00:11:56.000 Because while it does appear that there are Proud Boys there, you have these viral tweets.

00:12:00.000 This one from Sergio Olmo saying, Proud Boys bull rush BLM.

00:12:04.000 But there's no evidence.

00:12:05.000 I don't know who these guys are.

00:12:07.000 Why should I assume that these are just Proud Boys?

00:12:09.000 Now in fact, as I'm told, they're not.

00:12:12.000 So this is what I'm actually being told.

00:12:13.000 The Proud Boys are disavowing, saying these guys aren't ours.

00:12:16.000 There were Proud Boys who were there, apparently holding flags.

00:12:19.000 You can see Proud Boys, and they're wearing, you know, the golden black.

00:12:22.000 There's an interesting conversation to be had about... We were kind of talking about this a little bit before the show.

00:12:22.000 But I'll tell you this.

00:12:28.000 What makes someone Antifa and what makes someone a Proud Boy?

00:12:30.000 But first, I'll read you the quick context so you know what happened and then we'll kind of break this down.

00:12:34.000 Fox News reports at least two people were arrested Monday after Trump supporters traveling from the Portland suburbs clashed with far-left counter-protesters outside the Oregon State Capitol in Salem, which is actually like on fire right now for those that haven't seen it.

00:12:47.000 So seriously, I hope everyone out there is going to be safe.

00:12:51.000 Ty Parker, 53, of Durango, Colorado, was arrested on suspicion of misdemeanor assault and first-degree intimidation.

00:12:57.000 Trenton Wolfskill, 37, of Eugene, Oregon, was arrested on suspicion of misdemeanor assault.

00:13:02.000 The Oregonian Oregon Live reported, citing an Oregon State Police spokesperson, both have since been released.

00:13:08.000 These are just, you know, misdemeanor assault.

00:13:10.000 They're not the most important things in the world.

00:13:12.000 But of course, We're seeing many people on the left try and use this.

00:13:16.000 Videos posted on social media showed several dozen people wearing military fatigues, pro-Trump t-shirts, and bearing clothing and flags labeled with the names of the far-right group Patriot Prayer and the Proud Boys gathered on the steps of the Oregon State Capitol building in Salem, Oregon.

00:13:30.000 Several in the group later rushed towards a slightly smaller group of counter-protesters.

00:13:34.000 And this is where you see the videos.

00:13:36.000 Now admittedly, this is definitely being hyped up, but in this video, the dude in white, this guy right here, he basically just runs up to the dude and pushes him over.

00:13:43.000 It's assault.

00:13:44.000 It straight up is.

00:13:45.000 And I think the cops have like zero tolerance for any of this right now, especially Escalation, regardless of where it comes from.

00:13:52.000 And then apparently some other guy comes and shoves him as well.

00:13:54.000 It is, you know, admittedly not the worst thing I've seen in terms of street clashing.

00:13:58.000 Antifa has been coming out with, you know, clubs and molotovs and stuff like that.

00:14:02.000 But the bigger issue, I guess, that I'm trying to bring up with this story is... Well, they claim that they're Proud Boys.

00:14:09.000 And not Fox News.

00:14:10.000 Fox News is kind of dancing on the line.

00:14:12.000 But a lot of other outlets are saying the Proud Boys did this because you can clearly see that they're there and they have paintball guns.

00:14:18.000 So the first thing I kind of want to talk about is...

00:14:20.000 What makes someone, you know, are these, all of these guys now Proud Boys, all of them Patriot Prayer, or is that unfair?

00:14:27.000 But at the same time, because you mentioned this just a moment ago, if it was Antifa, we'd all be saying it was all Antifa, right?

00:14:33.000 So yeah, what do you think?

00:14:33.000 Right.

00:14:34.000 Right, so that's why I think it's a little, you gotta be careful not to, I totally see what you're saying with it right there, maybe those people specifically weren't Proud Boys, they are there doing like a kind of Proud Boys thing, The Proud Boys are, I guess, a more rigorously defined organization or club than Antifa, which is really more of a loose association of people who practice the same tactics.

00:14:57.000 So then it's like, are you Antifa?

00:14:59.000 If you're dressed like Antifa, you're there.

00:15:02.000 Actually, Black Lives Matter is interesting, too, because it's a slogan you can agree with without being part of the organization.

00:15:08.000 And then the organization is so big, it's not a formal, you don't sign up for it or something.

00:15:14.000 so it's sometimes the media character talks about these things in

00:15:19.000 characterizes people wrongly or who should be in what group but i don't know it seems a little bit like splitting hairs

00:15:25.000 in this case with the proud boys using using its president of ways to this

00:15:28.000 i mean you should always strive for greater rigorousness of just like you

00:15:32.000 know that little they were i'm aga supporting conservative activist people

00:15:36.000 at at a place where there were proud boys is the better way to say it

00:15:40.000 If you have a headline that doesn't contextualize that perfectly, I guess you should improve it, but it doesn't seem like the worst failing from the media I've ever seen.

00:15:48.000 Yeah, no, no, definitely not.

00:15:49.000 Well, particularly with Fox News mentioning that Proud Boys clash, and then a man in a ballproof vest did this.

00:15:54.000 But there are some left-wing outlets saying Proud Boys attack Black Lives Matter leftists and stuff.

00:16:00.000 So the general idea, I guess, from this, we're supposed to get a Proud Boy rally at the end of the month, September 26th, in Portland.

00:16:10.000 Have you heard about this at all?

00:16:11.000 I think I've heard it mentioned, yeah.

00:16:12.000 Yeah, I'm a bit concerned that this is gonna, you know, dramatically escalate.

00:16:17.000 Seems like a horrible idea.

00:16:18.000 Well, there you go, that's one way to put it.

00:16:20.000 No, I think it's a bad idea, yeah.

00:16:21.000 These people, these people on both, like, the Antifa people and the Proud Boy type people, maybe not exactly the Proud Boys people, aligned with them.

00:16:29.000 Um, I mean, it's like the blood in the crypts.

00:16:32.000 They want to fight each other.

00:16:33.000 They want to battle each other.

00:16:34.000 Um, and it's just like what they get excited about.

00:16:38.000 And I'm not sure how much it represents anything else to some degree.

00:16:41.000 Like there is some level of people in every society who just want to, they want to beat people up.

00:16:46.000 They want to, they want to create violence.

00:16:49.000 And like, this is their space for these people to do that.

00:16:51.000 I think that's less true among the Proud Boys, though.

00:16:54.000 Yeah.

00:16:55.000 I think it's more true among the Proud Boys than the average person.

00:16:58.000 They remind me of the Cowboys or the people who would have joined organized crime or something.

00:17:05.000 Or a militia in the 17th century to protect some local... I'm sure a lot of them join militias now.

00:17:10.000 But what I'm saying is it's actually not strange that it's usually young men between the ages of 15 and 30 who create all the violence in society.

00:17:10.000 Well, right.

00:17:19.000 Right.

00:17:21.000 in every society.

00:17:22.000 Sometimes they're the ones who fight wars.

00:17:25.000 They're the ones who burn towns in the medieval time.

00:17:27.000 They're the ones who in the Wild West where there's less law

00:17:29.000 and order were doing things like that.

00:17:31.000 Why though?

00:17:32.000 Why?

00:17:32.000 That's what appeals to you.

00:17:34.000 I mean there are actually differences between men and women.

00:17:36.000 Right.

00:17:37.000 That's the actual sad fact.

00:17:40.000 It's usually men who are called to this level of violence.

00:17:42.000 Well so let me clarify what I was saying.

00:17:44.000 I think that there is a higher likelihood among the Proud Boys

00:17:48.000 of a desire for violence than the average person.

00:17:51.000 But I think there is an extremely higher likelihood among Antifa

00:17:54.000 for a desire for violence among Proud Boys or the average person.

00:17:57.000 Meaning, the way I see the Proud Boys, when they go out and do these rallies, it's more of like climbing on top of the mountain and pounding their chest and being like, MY MOUNTAIN!

00:18:06.000 Don't you dare come up my mountain?

00:18:08.000 There's a little bit on both sides of like sticking their finger in your face and saying I'm not touching you. I'm

00:18:14.000 not touching you What are you doing? And then a fight breaks out right? Okay,

00:18:17.000 I guess technically you weren't touching me But come on, we know what you were trying

00:18:20.000 So the way the way I see it with especially with going to Portland is that a lot of these guys don't live in Portland

00:18:26.000 Some of them actually do like the guy who got murdered apparently lived just like a few blocks away and he may

00:18:29.000 have been going Home, that's crazy. So, you know, here's a guy who lives in

00:18:33.000 Portland. He's walking around and they they Targeted him dude went goes in the parking garage high like

00:18:38.000 weights grips grips is gone He knew he knew he was doing and it's things like that I mean I've been to a bunch of these rallies and what I end up seeing with the proud boys is they want to I Feel like it's them asserting.

00:18:52.000 They're like almost dominance, but not necessarily dominance like I mean as much as I can be critical of the Right.

00:19:00.000 Exactly.

00:19:00.000 going to these places, the general idea behind what they do is we have a right to march wherever

00:19:04.000 we want and we're going to come to your city and do it and you shouldn't attack us.

00:19:09.000 But the reality is if Antifa doesn't show up, you know what they do?

00:19:13.000 They wander around with American flags, then they go to a bar and get drunk and go home.

00:19:17.000 But Antifa goes around smashing up windows and fighting with cops.

00:19:21.000 So that's why I say, look, I'll absolutely be critical of these guys especially.

00:19:25.000 Chase people down and attack them?

00:19:27.000 Nah, you get arrested for that.

00:19:28.000 We don't want escalation.

00:19:29.000 And you shouldn't be attacking people anyway.

00:19:30.000 And they got a slap on the wrist charge as it is misdemeanor assault.

00:19:33.000 Proud Boys going to Portland?

00:19:35.000 After... Now we have... The one guy gets shot.

00:19:39.000 Then we have this other guy in Vancouver, Washington, get hit by a car.

00:19:42.000 I think it's... Yeah, it's a horrible idea.

00:19:42.000 You had Kenosha.

00:19:44.000 Well, often the best way to de-escalate something is to just not participate in it at all.

00:19:50.000 I have to think the Antifa-type people are more likely to get bored with this and go home if there aren't any Proud Boys out there.

00:19:58.000 I mean, obviously there's the scuffles we see, but that's not every time.

00:20:01.000 Sometimes just nothing happens because there isn't really anything going on.

00:20:05.000 I want more of that.

00:20:07.000 For sure.

00:20:08.000 But we've had three months of the far left going out and, you know, across the country, mostly in Portland, not stopping.

00:20:15.000 It's getting worse.

00:20:16.000 Yeah, Portland is a special case, right?

00:20:18.000 Because there's a long history of this kind of thing there.

00:20:21.000 Berkeley is another place that's been like that.

00:20:23.000 Yeah, the West Coast.

00:20:24.000 What's going on, man?

00:20:25.000 It's a West Coast thing.

00:20:26.000 It's a West Coast thing.

00:20:27.000 You know, I wonder, like, what made that... I wonder if it could be traced back to the Wild West.

00:20:34.000 Who was willing to go there?

00:20:35.000 Who was willing to survive there?

00:20:38.000 And what they were willing to do.

00:20:40.000 And then you end up with generations and generations of these individuals These Wild West stories and you get people who are just looking for a fight.

00:20:49.000 I don't know if maybe there's like less pressure to work or something or be in like a professional setting all the time and so you have people who have hobbies like this.

00:20:59.000 Like violence?

00:21:00.000 I don't know, I don't know.

00:21:01.000 I don't know man, I think the main reason Proud Boys specifically will go to Portland is to, they view it, and I could be wrong, I can't speak for them because I don't really talk to those people or anything like that.

00:21:14.000 But I think they view it as asserting their First Amendment rights.

00:21:18.000 Their right to be on the ground, in a city, free of harm, to express themselves.

00:21:22.000 Well, you could easily say that about the other side people, too.

00:21:24.000 Yeah, but Antifa smashes things up.

00:21:26.000 I mean, they show up in Portland, and in Seattle, they cemented the police station shut and tried burning it down.

00:21:31.000 Right.

00:21:32.000 That's a little different.

00:21:33.000 You know, some of these people, sure.

00:21:36.000 So, actually, here's an interesting, bigger question, for sure, as it pertains to this.

00:21:42.000 I guess the way I view it with the Proud Boys and how the media is framing it, or actually this one individual saying they're all Proud Boys.

00:21:47.000 The Proud Boys, you have to like, join.

00:21:49.000 Where they like, you know how you join the Proud Boys?

00:21:50.000 That is the difference, right?

00:21:52.000 Don't you have to sing that song or something?

00:21:53.000 They have to name five breakfast cereals.

00:21:56.000 You have to name five breakfast cereals while they're punching you.

00:22:00.000 Yes!

00:22:01.000 And that's... No, no, no.

00:22:02.000 So the first thing you have to do to join is not that.

00:22:04.000 It's actually, you just have to say some quote about, like, supporting Western civilization or something.

00:22:08.000 And their degrees.

00:22:08.000 Right.

00:22:10.000 Apparently the whole thing was supposed to be a joke from Gavin McInnes.

00:22:13.000 Like, it was meant to be silly.

00:22:15.000 And so, you have to name five breakfast cereals while they're punching you, and then you gotta get a tattoo.

00:22:20.000 Why can't they just, like, throw toga parties or something?

00:22:23.000 Like, that's what it sounds like, a fraternity.

00:22:25.000 Like, do you have to go out and participate in social mayhem?

00:22:28.000 I don't know.

00:22:29.000 Well, I mean, do you think they have a right to... Of course they have a right.

00:22:32.000 But even people also have a right to be part of Antifa loosely and go out and... Now, they don't have a right to smash windows and burn things and throw cement and all that, but, I mean, then it starts to get tricky.

00:22:45.000 Are you culpable for what the people who do do that if you're vaguely associated with them?

00:22:50.000 And that would be true of Patriot... Patriot Prayer.

00:22:54.000 Well, Patriot Prayer as well, I mean, because they're up in Portland.

00:22:56.000 And I know the leader of that group, I think, does speak often about let's not practice violence, or has in the past, I don't know.

00:23:02.000 Uh, Proud Boys, or?

00:23:03.000 Uh, Patriot Prayer, I think.

00:23:04.000 I think the Proud Boys are actually better than Patriot Prayer in terms of... Yeah, because I'm... I don't know.

00:23:09.000 I don't know enough about either group, to be completely honest.

00:23:12.000 But I'm pretty sure, like, there's like a video out of, I think it might be Portland, where the Patriot Prayer guys are, like, fighting people.

00:23:19.000 Yeah.

00:23:20.000 And they're more willing to just, you know, Well, I have certainly seen videos of people who are affiliated with both groups causing violence.

00:23:29.000 I have seen that happen both times.

00:23:32.000 Not to say that everyone there does that or that they're responsible for the other people, but again, I think you could say that to some degree for the people on the left as well.

00:23:39.000 I think there's a challenge here.

00:23:44.000 So here's the view from many people I hear on the right.

00:23:47.000 So I've absolutely criticized the right when they go to Portland and they do this, or I shouldn't say the right, I should say certain groups.

00:23:53.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:23:53.000 Specific individuals.

00:23:54.000 When they're like, hey, we're gonna go and we're gonna protest in the city, I'm like, you realize that will lead to conflict because Antibes is gonna show up.

00:23:59.000 The response is, why should I not get to entertain my rights because these people show up and attack us?

00:24:05.000 Right.

00:24:06.000 Like, there would be no violence if they didn't come.

00:24:08.000 So I've seen a bunch of, you know, pro-Trump rallies, where they're minding their business, waving little American flags, Antifa shows up and starts attacking them.

00:24:15.000 And that tends to be overwhelmingly the case.

00:24:19.000 That's why this one's so particularly egregious, and I think it's so dumb that anyone would engage in this.

00:24:23.000 You know the media's gonna immediately, you know, prop it up and be like, there it is.

00:24:27.000 And I guess, you know, to an extent, rightly so.

00:24:29.000 If you're gonna go out and be violent, well then you're gonna get, you know, you're gonna get arrested and the media's gonna talk about it.

00:24:34.000 So I guess here's my last question for you on this.

00:24:37.000 Is it fair?

00:24:39.000 Outside of strategy, you know, and what someone should or shouldn't do, like, is it equality, fair, or freedom if one group can't go out and march because they'll be attacked by another group?

00:24:50.000 No, it's not.

00:24:51.000 Everyone should have that right.

00:24:52.000 They do have that right.

00:24:53.000 They should be able to exercise that right.

00:24:55.000 And we should hold people accountable on an individual basis for any violence or property destruction they cause.

00:25:00.000 Ultimately, I mean, I'm a believer in individual responsibility, individual moral agency.

00:25:05.000 So what group you're a part of, we shouldn't be looking at.

00:25:08.000 I think on both sides, looking at it from a group perspective is harmful.

00:25:13.000 The police should arrest where they have cause to do so, individual purveyors of violence and hold them accountable.

00:25:19.000 So how do you feel about hate crime laws and terror laws?

00:25:23.000 I tend to be very skeptical of both.

00:25:26.000 I tend to think that people get put on lists for bad reasons.

00:25:31.000 I've actually written tons in opposition to the hate crime laws.

00:25:34.000 The hate crime laws present a due process issue for one thing because there's a federal hate crime statute.

00:25:42.000 So to clarify, often people don't know what the hate crime law is.

00:25:46.000 So it is not like a legal to express hateful views or to hold hateful views.

00:25:52.000 It is, what it is, is if you commit a, so there has to be an underlying crime.

00:25:56.000 So if you attack someone, you beat someone up, but then if you evince some kind of hatred of a protected

00:26:03.000 class, race, gender, sex, all the others, you can then be charged additionally, but so there has to

00:26:09.000 be an underlying crime.

00:26:11.000 That's important.

00:26:12.000 But the problem is there's a federal hate crime law and also then state by state laws.

00:26:15.000 So they get to crack.

00:26:16.000 So you end up you have to plead guilty because it's just the government has two opportunities to convict you of this and the additional penalty is so stiff.

00:26:25.000 Wow.

00:26:25.000 you're all and this is just kind of true of the criminal justice system in general is that people

00:26:28.000 always have they have to plead guilty because there's even if you just committed like one crime

00:26:32.000 that'll be well obstruction and planning and there's so many other elements of it that it's

00:26:36.000 just staggering that you end up kind of being actually deprived in a sense of your right to

00:26:41.000 a trial by jury because you can't risk the trial because the the it's called the trial tax right

00:26:46.000 so that's an issue with it And then also it still does get in a little bit of like policing your motivation.

00:26:52.000 Like, is it really?

00:26:53.000 Should it be treated differently if you beat someone up because you didn't like them for their certain race?

00:26:58.000 Or if you just beat them up because you're a jerk?

00:27:00.000 Or what if you don't like their shoes?

00:27:01.000 Or what if you don't like their music?

00:27:04.000 So let's say someone's playing, you know, I don't know, country music.

00:27:08.000 Is it gonna be a hate crime if you attack them?

00:27:09.000 Like, ah, these people and their damn music, and you attack them.

00:27:12.000 Are they gonna assert it's a hate crime?

00:27:14.000 What if it was hip-hop or something?

00:27:16.000 Right, then it might be.

00:27:17.000 Then it might be, and that to me makes no sense.

00:27:19.000 That's why I'm like, if it's a crime, it's a crime.

00:27:21.000 And also, it can be, now, in the system, the judge might want to, or a jury might factor in, in your sentence, even without hate crime laws.

00:27:21.000 I agree with that.

00:27:31.000 They could still say, well, we're more sympathetic to this person.

00:27:34.000 They made a bad call because of why the crime happened.

00:27:37.000 So I'm not saying that can't be ever considered by a judge or a jury.

00:27:41.000 But what the hate crime law is saying on the front end, This is changing how much the prosecutor is going after you for, and that's the part of it that I think is problematic.

00:27:52.000 So is the pendulum swinging too far left on that then?

00:27:54.000 What do you mean?

00:27:55.000 You know, like we pass civil rights law, we say that in public accommodation and in... Right.

00:28:00.000 Yeah, yeah, I think it is.

00:28:02.000 And then now, but yeah, so it's like now we're punishing you on top.

00:28:06.000 And also, and before, you know, I get jumped on by like progressive people, the new protected class is going to be cops, is going to be police officers.

00:28:13.000 So don't think, so you'll have hate crime charges for like assaulting a police officer.

00:28:19.000 But they do have that.

00:28:20.000 Like assaulting a person and assaulting an officer are two different things.

00:28:22.000 Right.

00:28:22.000 You get harsher penalties for attacking a cop.

00:28:25.000 Right.

00:28:25.000 But they're also, but they're going to add it to the hate crime statute too.

00:28:28.000 Are they actually going to do this?

00:28:29.000 That's been proposed in several jurisdictions.

00:28:31.000 Yes.

00:28:31.000 So you want to, can you elaborate what's going on with it?

00:28:34.000 Yeah, we're just adding what counts as a protective class.

00:28:37.000 That's what you're adding to the list.

00:28:40.000 And the list is different in different places.

00:28:42.000 But then that's kind of creating a second tier justice system in some sense.

00:28:46.000 If you're only going to be charged this much for attacking someone of this ethnicity or sex or profession or status.

00:28:54.000 You know what I mean?

00:28:56.000 That seems bad to me.

00:28:57.000 There's a lot of crazy laws like this.

00:28:58.000 I was at the gun shop recently.

00:29:02.000 And they were telling me not to buy hollow point bullets because they said it's an extra crime if you're considered to have committed a crime.

00:29:08.000 And I was like, well, I'm not going to commit a crime, so it doesn't matter.

00:29:10.000 And they're like, actually, if they decide to charge you and I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on.

00:29:15.000 So if I buy this bullet for my gun for home defense.

00:29:20.000 And I guess the idea is it's less likely to penetrate through walls or something because it like splatters or whatever, I don't know what the right word is.

00:29:27.000 And I'm like, so wait, if I'm at my house, so we're in New Jersey.

00:29:30.000 New Jersey is not a castle doctrine state.

00:29:33.000 It's like, I guess it's called like a semi, meaning you have to retreat from your home.

00:29:37.000 Only if you're trapped can you defend yourself.

00:29:39.000 So if I'm in my house, someone breaks in and they're screaming, you know, where's Tim Poole?

00:29:43.000 I'm gonna kill him.

00:29:44.000 And then they're like, I hear him like pump a shotgun or something.

00:29:47.000 Let's say I defend myself with a hollow point.

00:29:49.000 A prosecutor could be like, well, you could have fled, I think, so I'm gonna charge you the crime.

00:29:53.000 Oh, but what's that?

00:29:54.000 The bullet was special, therefore, you get another crime.

00:29:56.000 Yep.

00:29:57.000 That's crazy to me.

00:29:58.000 This is over-criminalization.

00:29:59.000 It's bad.

00:30:00.000 I mean, this is something libertarians rant about all the time.

00:30:02.000 It's just too many laws on the books.

00:30:05.000 It's just too easy for the prosecutors to get you with something.

00:30:10.000 Something.

00:30:10.000 Everything's a crime, huh?

00:30:11.000 Even if it's not the thing they're initially going after.

00:30:13.000 They'll find some procedural crime.

00:30:16.000 It's not good.

00:30:17.000 So what do we do about it?

00:30:19.000 We gotta get rid of those laws, man.

00:30:21.000 Do we even get rid of laws, though?

00:30:23.000 Or do we just keep stacking them up?

00:30:24.000 It never happens, but it'd be nice if it did.

00:30:26.000 It'd be nice to, I mean, mandatory minimums are something that can be gotten rid of.

00:30:29.000 I think Congress has made some progress on that front.

00:30:32.000 Just that they have, again, that's bad because it takes away the, what you're supposed to have is some, the judge or the jury should have some flexibility to take lenience, to leniently treat you.

00:30:43.000 Or I guess even to really throw the book at you if you're really unrepentant or you're really bad or you're a repeat offender or something.

00:30:48.000 But the mandatory minimums, the laws are saying, no, we have to treat you like this.

00:30:51.000 Even if it's like only technically your third offense because you're like a grandmother and there was drugs being dealt in your house or something.

00:30:58.000 That kind of people, Trump has pardoned a few of those cases.

00:31:00.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:31:01.000 It's interesting.

00:31:01.000 Do you know why they did the mandatory minimums?

00:31:04.000 I don't know.

00:31:04.000 I don't know if you know.

00:31:06.000 This was the tough on crime approach coming out of the 90s when crime was a very bad problem in the 80s, early 90s, and they just decided this is the right approach.

00:31:14.000 Throw the book at people.

00:31:15.000 Discourage people from committing crimes because you can't dare to commit a crime because look how bad the punishments are going to be.

00:31:22.000 I think there's, you know, this is a nebulous public policy question.

00:31:25.000 I don't know that it really actually worked to scare people out of committing crimes that way.

00:31:30.000 I think there's probably other reasons crime went down.

00:31:32.000 And I don't think that prison sentences scares anybody.

00:31:35.000 No, I don't think so.

00:31:36.000 I don't think they think about that.

00:31:37.000 Because I think a lot of the, there's a lot of organizations, and maybe this is just a trope that I've heard of, but they figured out how to function through the prison system as normal.

00:31:46.000 Well, and also there might have been some idea that we have to keep people in prison who are violent and dangerous and commit crimes, which is true.

00:31:53.000 Certainly people who are a risk to society have to stay in prison if they are a risk, but As I was saying earlier, you can age out of the population at which you're a risk of committing a violent crime.

00:32:04.000 I mean, there are people who've been locked in there for decades who, if you release them, there's no way they're going to cause any problems anymore.

00:32:11.000 They're going to go to sleep in the sun with a blanket on their lap.

00:32:15.000 Sadly, yes.

00:32:18.000 We have so many people in prisons.

00:32:20.000 Is there a general libertarian approach to how we deal with the prison problem?

00:32:27.000 Uh, we would like to release non-violent offenders, those people who are there for drug crimes particularly.

00:32:32.000 Hey, I love that.

00:32:33.000 Yeah.

00:32:33.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:32:34.000 There's a lot of those.

00:32:35.000 Um, and then also violent offenders who, you know, if they show, if there's evidence that they've reformed, I mean, the purpose of jail should be to lock people away because they are a present threat to society.

00:32:48.000 Some people have reformed.

00:32:49.000 They can probably let go, too.

00:32:50.000 Or they're older now, and they're not a threat anymore.

00:32:52.000 What if we, like, had an island?

00:32:55.000 Yeah.

00:32:56.000 And we just put people on the island?

00:32:58.000 That sounds like Survivor or Lost or something.

00:33:01.000 I read a story about, like, I think somewhere in, like, some Scandinavian country, the worst offenders are just put on an island, and it's like... Sure.

00:33:07.000 Let's get creative.

00:33:09.000 Do your thing.

00:33:09.000 Like, live, learn to survive, and cooperate and function.

00:33:12.000 You know, because whatever's happening now isn't working.

00:33:15.000 Maybe that this story was I'm pretty sure I was reading a story about like the most extreme offenders they have like housing on an island and you have to like chop your wood and just live a like kind of exile life.

00:33:25.000 Maybe you can wear an ankle bracelet or something we can try to track you.

00:33:28.000 I know you always hear about the horrific stories where it goes wrong where they let someone out and then they kill someone like it's terrible and then we go how could we ever let someone out of prison it's awful.

00:33:36.000 And yeah, we need to be cognizant of that, but defaulting toward just keeping people in prison forever... Yeah, I know, it's ridiculous.

00:33:43.000 It doesn't work.

00:33:43.000 Yeah, I definitely think our prison system is broken in many different ways.

00:33:46.000 And that's different even than the policing.

00:33:48.000 Like, we over... To some degree, maybe under police and over in prison, in a way.

00:33:55.000 Where you don't have... The police don't have the resources or the trust in the communities that you'd want them to have, and they're almost like two different problems, and we almost do it maybe wrong on both ways.

00:34:04.000 Do you think we should defund the police?

00:34:06.000 I think I've said no already.

00:34:07.000 I think you asked me that.

00:34:08.000 Did I?

00:34:09.000 No.

00:34:10.000 Uh, I think I said, there are some, uh, so right now there's like tons of cops in public schools.

00:34:16.000 Yeah.

00:34:17.000 Very needlessly.

00:34:17.000 Some maybe occasionally schools need a cop, but right now I think like half of all high schools have a police officer in them.

00:34:24.000 If you went back to 1970, there would not be a single police officer in any school in America.

00:34:28.000 Just didn't happen.

00:34:29.000 Now they're there and all the disciplinary problems between students default to them.

00:34:34.000 So you have cops called on, you know, kids roughhousing now.

00:34:37.000 It's going to be an assault charge.

00:34:39.000 It's going to be on their record.

00:34:42.000 It really, it's terrible for kids.

00:34:43.000 I feel so bad for them.

00:34:45.000 But didn't they have guns?

00:34:46.000 Like, I don't know about the 70s, but I hear these stories about how, like, way back when, people would bring their gun with them to school.

00:34:51.000 Yeah, you had rifle clubs, you had smoking clubs, that kind of thing.

00:34:53.000 Yeah, it was a better time.

00:34:57.000 Now, there's a freakout about guns in schools that is, like, vastly disproportionate to the danger of guns in schools.

00:35:03.000 I mean, we freak out about school shootings to a degree that is insane.

00:35:08.000 When did they ban guns from schools?

00:35:11.000 I don't know when precisely they banned guns from schools.

00:35:13.000 They started putting, because of the cops, so there were federal grants to schools to hire more cops, and then there was more zero-tolerance programs that if you have a gun in school, yeah, you're gonna be expelled immediately, or anything that looks like a gun, or even like a piece of Play-Doh you shaped into a gun in some way.

00:35:29.000 Did you hear the story about that kid who was eating a Pop-Tart?

00:35:31.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:35:32.000 I've written about that kid 19 times.

00:35:35.000 So, for the people who don't know, some kid was eating a Pop-Tart, and he bit it into the shape of a gun, Yeah.

00:35:40.000 And I guess he was holding it like a gun or something?

00:35:41.000 Yeah.

00:35:42.000 I mean, a kid got suspended for, like, wearing the magic Lord of the Rings ring and saying, I make you disappear.

00:35:48.000 Like, schools are so paranoid about violence.

00:35:51.000 Dude, if you— And now it's Zoom class.

00:35:53.000 I wrote about this this week.

00:35:55.000 Well, we actually have it.

00:35:56.000 Yeah.

00:35:57.000 Let's pull this up.

00:35:58.000 This was insane.

00:35:59.000 Talk about creepy, dude.

00:36:00.000 It's from yesterday.

00:36:01.000 Yeah, and so this happened a couple times.

00:36:03.000 This was a kid who's playing briefly with a Nerf gun.

00:36:06.000 Clearly a Nerf gun.

00:36:07.000 It says Zombie Hunter on it.

00:36:09.000 During virtual class.

00:36:11.000 Zombie and the school the teacher notices it and the school decides to call the police

00:36:17.000 The police show up to this kid's house to make sure you know, he's safe and well

00:36:23.000 This is the kind of the merging of child services and law enforcement and education that unfortunately zoom learning

00:36:29.000 distance learning really permits And he would they suspended him for five days. He's never

00:36:35.000 going back to that school. Anyway, his parents said this is ridiculous

00:36:37.000 Good. I know. Yeah, they said charter school or private school for us. Yes. Yes

00:36:42.000 This is so this is a concern I have about distance learning at one of many is that it invites the state

00:36:49.000 into right into your Right into your house.

00:36:53.000 I mean, Massachusetts Department of Families, their child services equivalent, gave out some guidance to teachers saying, you know, make sure while you can see on the screen, you know, does the child look like they're unhappy or emotionally unwell, which is probably every child in America right now, because it's a terrible time.

00:37:08.000 Yeah, no friends.

00:37:09.000 But if they look like they're malnourished or they skip breakfast, you might want to alert us, child services, and we'll do a check.

00:37:14.000 Which is not good, because again, inviting the police to come into the house, people get upset, people act irrationally, people get arrested for things, and it's just this strain on the least able parents, the parents who have the most kind of stress in their lives, the working class family.

00:37:33.000 It's terrible.

00:37:34.000 What do you think this is going to do to these kids when they're older?

00:37:37.000 I mean, I think they're going to be nuts.

00:37:41.000 It's tough to predict.

00:37:41.000 This is a harmful year for kids, certainly.

00:37:44.000 For their emotional development, their intellectual development.

00:37:47.000 Did Michael Malice, he said that they were prisons for kids?

00:37:51.000 I don't recall that.

00:37:52.000 Was that Michael?

00:37:52.000 That's something he believes, I think.

00:37:53.000 I don't need to speak for him.

00:37:55.000 I've chatted with him before.

00:37:56.000 He was calling schools prisons for kids.

00:37:58.000 Yeah, basically saying that it's, you know, the teachers are bullies.

00:38:03.000 They're forced to go there.

00:38:04.000 They're locked in.

00:38:05.000 They hate being there.

00:38:06.000 Everyone's unhappy.

00:38:08.000 Yeah, I think schools are trash, and they're only getting worse.

00:38:11.000 Right, so that's the important point.

00:38:12.000 They've gotten more prison-like, certainly, over the last 30 years, in terms of what you... And it can ruin your life to get in trouble for something these days.

00:38:20.000 I mean, it can ruin your life to find out, you know, you tweeted, you know, when you were 14, something like homophobic or racist.

00:38:29.000 Or even a joke.

00:38:31.000 I feel so bad for kids these days.

00:38:33.000 I mean, so I finished my adolescence immediately prior to the era where there are now smartphones everywhere and everything everyone says is being recorded, and there's video of you at all, which is good!

00:38:43.000 I feel terrible for these kids.

00:38:45.000 I know.

00:38:46.000 Every mistake they've made is out there.

00:38:51.000 The purpose, to me, of school is partly to socialize young people and get them... So when they make mistakes, they're forgiven, and then it's forgotten.

00:39:00.000 Nothing's forgotten now.

00:39:01.000 I think... So I'm very, very pro-homeschooling, and I've heard a lot of people say, what about socializing the kids?

00:39:10.000 I completely disagree with this.

00:39:11.000 I don't think kids should be learning from other kids.

00:39:14.000 I think kids should be learning from working people in normal society.

00:39:18.000 So that's my experience when I was growing up.

00:39:21.000 My family had a business, and I did interact with other kids my age, but I also would work on the weekends at my family business strictly interacting with adults on normal adult-like things.

00:39:33.000 So the way I view it is, what's going to actually teach a kid to function in the real world?

00:39:38.000 Being around a bunch of kids who are talking about dumb things they don't understand.

00:39:41.000 Or hearing adults talk about normal adult things.

00:39:44.000 Business management and politics and, you know, just general life stuff.

00:39:48.000 Oh, I gotta pay the mortgage.

00:39:49.000 What's a mortgage?

00:39:49.000 Well, the mortgage is like this.

00:39:51.000 You go to school and what do you do?

00:39:52.000 They open up the book, they teach you the same thing over and over again every year.

00:39:56.000 Like, that's the craziest thing about public schools to me is how often they just regurgitate the exact same lessons over and over again.

00:40:03.000 And then, when you're actually interacting with people, it's people who don't know how the world works, and you're spending, what, you know, 18, 19 years, or maybe even up until you're 24?

00:40:12.000 Well, yeah, no, no, 18, 19 years, you know, because you're 5 when you start kindergarten, and you've not interacted with adults, other than being berated, talked down to, and treated not like an equal.

00:40:23.000 So you get a lot of people who are just... Actually, this is an interesting point.

00:40:26.000 I think one of the reasons why we're seeing right now our politicians, Trump is, what, 74, and Biden 77, and Bernie is, what, 78.

00:40:35.000 They're all really old.

00:40:37.000 Very old.

00:40:38.000 And I think it's because of the way our school systems are functioning and creating people who only know how to look up to the older generation to be told what to do.

00:40:50.000 I think it's a product of what our schools are doing.

00:40:52.000 So, anyway, the point is, the reason I bring that up, when you take a look at these stories, like, a kid's playing with a Nerf gun, and now they're in his home.

00:40:59.000 And now these policies that were kind of oppressive to kids are now coming into their own private spaces.

00:41:06.000 It's gonna get a whole lot worse.

00:41:08.000 I mean, you think the SJW college crisis is bad now, and these people are out in public?

00:41:13.000 Amplify that tenfold.

00:41:14.000 Well, I think it has to teach, it encourages young people to view themselves as victims.

00:41:20.000 That's how you get ahead, is to say you're victimized by something.

00:41:23.000 Or also to crave a kind of safety that is ridiculous.

00:41:30.000 or and also to think that the purpose of the authority figures in the society is to provide you comfort and safety and protection from I mean in the schools we're talking about imaginary threats like school is a very safe place for kids yeah kids are safer in school than they are outside of school in virtually every place in America it's just not but we we act like they're Like they're war zones with all the policies we put in place to keep kids safe and like perfectly coddled all the time.

00:41:59.000 And I have to think that's an unhealthy educational environment.

00:42:01.000 Definitely.

00:42:02.000 Did you hear about what happened in Chicago with that kid put in the padded room?

00:42:06.000 No, what happened?

00:42:07.000 Some kid was acting out and the Chicago school has a locked padded room where the kids who are acting up just get put inside, they close it.

00:42:15.000 It's terrible.

00:42:16.000 Yeah, it's like solitary confinement for kids.

00:42:19.000 Yeah.

00:42:20.000 So apparently the kid was like freaking out and then he like cracked his pants and he was covered in feces and then started crying saying he was sorry and begging for help and they just left him there.

00:42:30.000 Solitary confinement is really terrible.

00:42:31.000 It's torture.

00:42:32.000 I feel it's awful for hardened criminal adults who deserve to be in prison.

00:42:35.000 It's still awful for them.

00:42:37.000 I can't imagine doing that to kids.

00:42:38.000 Could you imagine, like, you've seen the movie Cast Away, right?

00:42:40.000 Yep.

00:42:41.000 Inflicting the Wilson on a kid?

00:42:44.000 Like the desperation for some kind of human interaction?

00:42:48.000 It's worse for kids, though.

00:42:49.000 I mean, if you're an adult, At least you've actually had time to grow up and kind of harden yourself to some degree.

00:42:57.000 These kids are scared, fragile, don't know what they're supposed to be doing.

00:43:00.000 And they're being treated like adults in the wrong way.

00:43:03.000 It's like, you do something wrong, you're an adult.

00:43:05.000 If you're inquisitive, we're gonna treat you like a moron.

00:43:08.000 So, I hate school, man.

00:43:10.000 I don't know.

00:43:11.000 I don't know what your thoughts are on homeschool, though.

00:43:15.000 Look, I'm in favor of families making whatever the right schooling decision is for their individual kid.

00:43:21.000 Because it is different for every kid.

00:43:23.000 Some kids will thrive in a traditional educational environment.

00:43:26.000 Some kids will thrive in something else.

00:43:28.000 I think your family should be able to decide what that is.

00:43:32.000 The money that is being spent by the government to educate your kid, maybe you should have some control on how that's spent instead of it just automatically going to the school.

00:43:40.000 That's very libertarian of you.

00:43:42.000 Yeah, so what do you think about school choice, or like the voucher program specifically?

00:43:45.000 Yeah, so that's basically the implementation of that philosophy, which is that the dollar should follow the student rather than just going to the school.

00:43:51.000 I mean, some of these school districts spend an obscene amount of money per kid.

00:43:55.000 We're talking ten, ten or twenty or thirty thousand dollars per kid.

00:43:58.000 Wow.

00:44:00.000 to have terrible educational outcomes.

00:44:02.000 Like, you'd think with that much money per kid, you could achieve something, and they don't, and they fail.

00:44:06.000 Because this isn't even, like, this is a moderate, this isn't even saying we shouldn't, like, fund education.

00:44:11.000 We're just saying, like, maybe the government, sure you can fund education, but maybe the government is not the best at actually doing the educating.

00:44:18.000 So maybe they haven't quite figured that out yet, and we should, like, leave that to the professionals.

00:44:21.000 So what you're saying is abolish the government.

00:44:24.000 I'm kidding.

00:44:25.000 No, but I certainly hear stories like this, and it definitely makes me much more of a small government type person.

00:44:31.000 You know, because waste exists in so many different elements of governmental function, I guess.

00:44:31.000 Yeah.

00:44:37.000 Well, when you just get the money regardless, you don't have an incentive to be efficient about it.

00:44:42.000 If you're never going to go bankrupt if you spend it badly, if the funding lever's never going to get shut off if you don't have the right outcomes or achievements, You're going to have less incentive to spend it wisely or to achieve anything at all.

00:44:54.000 And that's the problem with, yeah.

00:44:55.000 Well, that's what we see basically in every government crisis.

00:45:00.000 They end up, you know, we have all these states now that are, you know, they're locked down, their economy is destroyed, their tax base is gone.

00:45:08.000 So what do they do?

00:45:09.000 They go to the federal government and say, give us money.

00:45:10.000 Right.

00:45:11.000 And Trump said, no.

00:45:13.000 And then Trump was like, actually, I'm gonna take your money away.

00:45:15.000 And now they're freaking out.

00:45:17.000 But it's a really interesting Problem, I think.

00:45:20.000 Well, I'll keep it at school just for another minute or two because I wanted to make the point about... You write about, in your book, the college campus stuff.

00:45:30.000 But I kind of feel like you're late to the party.

00:45:31.000 Like, we all were.

00:45:32.000 You know what I mean?

00:45:33.000 Yeah.

00:45:33.000 Like, these kids certainly got these ideas from somewhere.

00:45:37.000 And I think, it's interesting, it traces back to this desire to...

00:45:42.000 Actually end racism, actually end sexism and homophobia and things like that.

00:45:47.000 But the way I've always viewed it is we had, you know, the previous generation decided, hey, wait a minute, you know, these things are bad.

00:45:53.000 We should get rid of them.

00:45:54.000 And then we had the Civil Rights Act, for instance.

00:45:56.000 And then we've actually had some, you know, other civil rights gains for like gay marriage and stuff like that.

00:46:01.000 But what happens when the generation before us solves those problems, but demands their kids solve the problems that have already been solved?

00:46:10.000 It's almost like they've been set on a mission of social justice that they don't actually have to solve anymore, you know what I mean?

00:46:19.000 So, I guess it's a combination of things.

00:46:23.000 I think back to when I was a kid in school, and they would tell us these things, like, you know, love who you love, and be who you are, and racism is bad, and they would tell us these things.

00:46:33.000 But it was really hammered into us, but these things are often already illegal.

00:46:37.000 I don't know.

00:46:38.000 I guess it just ultimately feels like they've simultaneously created an ideological drive on accident.

00:46:44.000 Well, indoctrinating kids to support an authoritarian system, where they just do what they're told to do.

00:46:50.000 Notably, you go to school, you have your teacher.

00:46:53.000 You go all the way to college, and you always have someone telling you exactly what you have to do.

00:46:57.000 So what happens when they get out?

00:46:58.000 A couple things.

00:47:00.000 For one, many of them are massively in debt.

00:47:02.000 They have no idea how to solve that debt.

00:47:03.000 So they look to the old people and say, what do I do?

00:47:06.000 Well, the old people at their universities are lefties, and some of them are communists.

00:47:10.000 Probably a lot of them, actually.

00:47:11.000 And they say, communism is the solution.

00:47:14.000 They're also, you know, social justice indoctrinated.

00:47:17.000 So, it's like, everything we're seeing right now probably could have been easily predicted, right?

00:47:22.000 Although it entertained me how many of the kind of activist students we're talking about hold their hard left professors in utter contempt because their communist professors, the old school left, the ACLU left, they like free speech.

00:47:41.000 Right, but I'm talking about the former era.

00:47:44.000 Those people liked free speech and they liked an exchange of ideas.

00:47:49.000 And also they were, it was more class, their leftism was class-based, not race and gender.

00:47:54.000 And I like that stuff.

00:47:55.000 Yes, so the students now, I mean those, it's those professors, I mean I defend, you know, conservative speakers when they're chased off campus, conservative professors, but also lots of leftist professors who are terrified of their students.

00:48:07.000 Professors who are of the left have said, I am terrified of my students, even though probably on policy they mostly agree.

00:48:13.000 they are terrified they will use the wrong word the wrong language to describe particularly relating

00:48:18.000 to race or gender even though the sentiment is perfectly in accordance with

00:48:22.000 progressivism and there will be there will be a complaint

00:48:27.000 followed by an investigation into this uh... professor

00:48:33.000 and uh... and it's caused by the woke students So, Bucko just jumped on the table.

00:48:38.000 Yeah, we've got a cat.

00:48:39.000 Oh, I didn't know if we could acknowledge the cat.

00:48:40.000 Yeah, we can acknowledge the cat.

00:48:41.000 No, no, he's not there.

00:48:42.000 He's here.

00:48:42.000 Don't say anything.

00:48:43.000 Did you see that professor who said the Chinese words?

00:48:46.000 Who got suspended?

00:48:47.000 I wrote about that!

00:48:48.000 Yeah, you can click on my name, it'll come up.

00:48:51.000 Oh man, yeah.

00:48:52.000 It's like the one before.

00:48:53.000 We gotta talk about this, because this is so good.

00:48:56.000 Oh, here it is.

00:48:57.000 A Chinese word that sounds like a racial slur.

00:49:00.000 I don't think we can even say the word because the YouTube filter will pick it up and it'll translate it as the racial slur.

00:49:07.000 But just to be clear, this guy was not saying a slur.

00:49:10.000 He was saying a word in a different language that is just a filler word in China, like saying er or um.

00:49:16.000 Right, right, right.

00:49:16.000 In Chinese.

00:49:17.000 Okay, so wait, wait.

00:49:17.000 So here's the context for those that missed this story.

00:49:20.000 This is amazing.

00:49:21.000 So Robbie wrote the story, it's USC suspended a communications professor for saying a Chinese word that sounds like a racial slur.

00:49:30.000 Greg Patton was describing the Chinese filler word, it's spelled N-E-G-A, but I really am worried because YouTube uses an automatic speech-to-text filter, and then when they hear, they're like, oh, oh, oh!

00:49:43.000 banned. So it's N-E-G-A. And you know, some people say it's pronounced ney and then ga.

00:49:51.000 And you can understand why, you know, people would pretend to be angry about that.

00:49:55.000 This guy is a communications professor. Like, he's talking about how to give a speech and how

00:49:59.000 you would use different filler words and depending on different languages. So this was a perfectly

00:50:04.000 appropriate discussion to have. This is virtual learning.

00:50:07.000 Some student was offended. He was reported. He was temporarily suspended. I have actually, I

00:50:13.000 don't often receive a lot of emails on a subject that I write about. Email just doesn't seem to

00:50:18.000 be the way people.

00:50:19.000 I don't communicate as much these days.

00:50:20.000 Sometimes I do, if the article goes really big.

00:50:21.000 Twitter DM.

00:50:22.000 Right.

00:50:23.000 This article, I have received a number of emails from people who were his students.

00:50:29.000 Some of them who said, I am a minority student, said, this teacher was wonderful, he was great, not a racist bone in his body, and they are outraged by his treatment.

00:50:38.000 By USC, this is a major university.

00:50:41.000 It's horrible.

00:50:41.000 It's ridiculous.

00:50:42.000 No, no.

00:50:42.000 I'm sorry, Robbie.

00:50:43.000 You're wrong.

00:50:44.000 He was a white supremacist.

00:50:46.000 Now I know.

00:50:46.000 Of course.

00:50:47.000 He was white!

00:50:48.000 Well, that explains everything.

00:50:50.000 That's whiteness.

00:50:52.000 Take us away!

00:50:55.000 I'm technically the only non-white person, so both of you, you know... I'm a female.

00:50:59.000 I apologize.

00:51:00.000 Robby, you can PayPal me.

00:51:02.000 My PayPal is... I'm kidding.

00:51:04.000 This is really amazing because it's actually racist to attack him for saying something in Chinese.

00:51:11.000 No, but it is.

00:51:14.000 So the general context is we say things like, you know, and like.

00:51:19.000 You know, like when we're talking about dogs, you know, that's what we do.

00:51:23.000 And I've been saying you know too much for the past week or so.

00:51:26.000 I'm a like abuser, I think.

00:51:28.000 Like abuser?

00:51:29.000 Yeah.

00:51:29.000 But that's what they do.

00:51:31.000 There's a comedian who has this really funny bit about it where he said that he's in China.

00:51:35.000 And there's like a little kid who walks into a chicken shop.

00:51:38.000 And there's also like a Nigerian woman.

00:51:40.000 And he makes a joke where he says it's like the one black person in China or something.

00:51:44.000 And this little kid starts looking at the menu and he says, you know, that word.

00:51:48.000 Right.

00:51:49.000 Ne-ga.

00:51:49.000 Over and over and over again.

00:51:51.000 And the woman looks at him and she looks at the guy and he's like, she's looking at me like I'm supposed to beat this kid up or something.

00:51:57.000 But the joke being that I mean, I'm sure it's not the only instance where if you're speaking a different language, you'll hear something that could be offensive in a different language.

00:52:06.000 I mean, this is the origins of, didn't President Kennedy's the, I am a jelly donut.

00:52:10.000 Yeah.

00:52:11.000 Right.

00:52:12.000 It's funny.

00:52:12.000 Was it Ich bin ein Berliner?

00:52:13.000 Something like that.

00:52:14.000 Yeah.

00:52:15.000 Um, I'm a jelly donut.

00:52:16.000 It's probably better for, uh, for our society, for broad racial tolerance and getting along.

00:52:24.000 If we can all laugh at things like this and move on.

00:52:27.000 I don't know.

00:52:27.000 That doesn't seem like a crazy idea, right?

00:52:29.000 Look, this is funny.

00:52:31.000 We can laugh and that's it.

00:52:32.000 This is why I'm, uh, look, I think if you look at the things I'm talking about often, it's probably very similar to what you're talking about.

00:52:41.000 And I consider myself to be a social liberal, kind of like where Democrats were 10 years ago.

00:52:46.000 You're a libertarian, but we talk about a lot of the exact same things.

00:52:50.000 And so do Trump supporters.

00:52:52.000 And because of that, we all get lumped in as like right wing.

00:52:55.000 But isn't it better to call out the psychotic behavior and to do something about it?

00:53:00.000 Or maybe that really is like whatever the new right is.

00:53:04.000 Includes libertarians, former liberals, Trump supporters, conservatives, Republicans.

00:53:09.000 Right.

00:53:10.000 And I guess some Democrats who just haven't realized it yet.

00:53:13.000 Well, right.

00:53:13.000 I mean, I know plenty of, right, the people, the kinds of people I was describing, people who would describe themselves on the left who are really fed up with this kind of thing.

00:53:20.000 I mean, there there's tons of those sorts of people.

00:53:22.000 The dirtbag left.

00:53:23.000 The dirtbag left to some extent.

00:53:25.000 Even I would say more mainstream left people.

00:53:27.000 There's the Glenn Greenwald type people.

00:53:31.000 So they see the harm this has caused, I think, to retreat on principles of free speech from a leftist perspective.

00:53:36.000 I guess they don't view it as big a threat as I do, though.

00:53:43.000 Well, we might disagree then.

00:53:44.000 I think it is possible to over-dramatize the threat as well, and some people do that.

00:53:49.000 I think this is one of the worst things.

00:53:52.000 It's completely illiberal.

00:53:54.000 They're shutting down jokes, and what it's doing is it's almost some kind of cultural Balkanization.

00:54:01.000 where you can't wear clothes this is the craziest thing to me

00:54:06.000 if a white person is wearing clothes that's arguably from some culture that's

00:54:09.000 not white it's a bad thing and they get attacked for it yeah that is bad

00:54:13.000 and to the extent where like we had that girl going to the prom who had

00:54:17.000 the uh... the chinese dress Oh, that was just the worst thing ever.

00:54:20.000 And then you see that guy who was in China who went around asking people?

00:54:23.000 And the Chinese people were like, oh, that's very great.

00:54:25.000 Like, it's very beautiful.

00:54:26.000 Like, they didn't care.

00:54:26.000 Well, that's what's so annoying about some of this leftist identity politics stuff is often it's actually privileged, wealthy, white, liberal people who are purporting to speak for some oppressed minority, even though the supposedly oppressed minority group would never be offended by that thing, or some of them would.

00:54:43.000 Most people would not be.

00:54:44.000 I mean, this is true of the Latinx thing that white progressives want you to use, but you couldn't find two Latino-Latina people who actually prefer that.

00:54:54.000 The Cato Institute, which is a libertarian think tank, a few years ago, they surveyed minority groups on how, if you were offended by certain things that were supposed to be microaggressions.

00:55:05.000 You know, asking where you're from and a couple other things and on nearly all of them a majority of the

00:55:11.000 people who were supposed to be offended by this thing said they weren't

00:55:13.000 offended by it.

00:55:14.000 So then why are we teaching or training people to be aware of this even on campus?

00:55:19.000 There's no scientific basis to it.

00:55:21.000 Well there's two main points.

00:55:23.000 Someone tweeted this, what's the end goal of critical race theory?

00:55:26.000 And someone responded, to leverage white guilt for money.

00:55:30.000 And that's what we see a lot of with these people like, you know, Robert D'Angelo.

00:55:33.000 Exactly.

00:55:34.000 And what's funny is like, she's an avowed racist.

00:55:36.000 I have to bring this up every time because she's like a New York Times bestseller.

00:55:40.000 Her book is like the top of Amazon.

00:55:42.000 Why is the left taking their cues from people who are like, just telling us they're racists?

00:55:46.000 Well, but New York Times did a long takedown of her, so did The Atlantic, so did... A lot of people are saying, man, do not actually take your non-racism cues from her.

00:55:57.000 For sure, for sure, but they still are.

00:56:00.000 Like these viral videos where there's... Well, guilty... Again, just like exactly what you said, guilty feeling white people are ordering her book en masse because it's easy to do that and say, okay, I did it.

00:56:10.000 Now I'm good.

00:56:11.000 I'm one of the good ones.

00:56:12.000 But I think my concern about this is, for one, it's rapidly expanding.

00:56:19.000 We're all on college campus now.

00:56:21.000 Why should I make the assumption that, oh, it's just people, you know, saying virtue signal and I'm done?

00:56:26.000 If every month that goes by, it expands and it reaches new heights.

00:56:30.000 Because some of these books, like the book from that, what's his name?

00:56:35.000 Ibrahim X. Kendi?

00:56:36.000 Ibrahim X. Kendi, yeah.

00:56:37.000 Yeah, where he overtly says we need discrimination, racial discrimination.

00:56:41.000 His big idea is to create a department of non-racism or anti-racism or something that... But you would require, and he admits this, he wants a constitutional amendment to create it, to void the First Amendment, and so this would be a bureaucratic federal department that would sanction people for expressing racist views.

00:57:01.000 Okay, okay, look, this guy's... That's as bad as you can... That's as bad as an idea you could ever have.

00:57:05.000 You know his book is number one in human rights on Amazon?

00:57:07.000 Yeah.

00:57:07.000 He's had a like it's on the USA Today list which tracks literally just hard sales. Yeah, he's like number 13 or

00:57:14.000 something So that now it's bad, and he's and he said I think three

00:57:17.000 books so

00:57:20.000 Look, we're all off the campus right now To me, this feels like a serious existential threat for liberalism.

00:57:25.000 And I don't mean liberalism in the colloquial American sense.

00:57:27.000 I mean classical liberalism, part of the foundation of this country.

00:57:31.000 Individuality, consent of the governed, all of these things.

00:57:34.000 He's literally attacking the First Amendment.

00:57:36.000 It's not just about this one guy.

00:57:38.000 It's about...

00:57:39.000 Going back to 2014, where we all laughed because there were silly vloggers who were complaining about, you know, inclusivity in games or whatever, and now it's straight up to the point where 10% of the CDC staff wrote a letter demanding that they declare racism a national health crisis.

00:57:55.000 If it's expanding this quickly, what, in 10 years?

00:57:58.000 Then we're literally going to be living under some, like, leftist critical raceocracy, where, you know, white people, oh, we can't hire you because you're white and you're privileged and you have to give up your property or something like that.

00:58:11.000 Or we get to the point where, heaven, like, these people have no idea how to address mixed race individuals because they don't know where the privilege falls.

00:58:19.000 So they just make it up.

00:58:20.000 Do you agree with me or don't you agree with me?

00:58:21.000 Because if you agree with me, I'm just going to say you have privilege, and if you don't agree with me, then I'll give you whatever you want.

00:58:25.000 Well, and the First Amendment will not be abolished via a constitutional amendment because that's not going to happen, but the way around it is to tweak harassment law continuously in a way that just... Speaking to the hate speech stuff, that I'm a protected group, so you can't...

00:58:44.000 Like this happened on the campus with this is not a safe educational environment for me that violates title 9 etc There's the same kind of laws that have to do with the workplace That is the is the next front of kind of leftist changing how we all live is making so well if you say something That offends me even if it's like a boss giving like totally reasonable feedback to an employee Yeah.

00:59:05.000 That's exactly what I'm talking about.

00:59:07.000 unsafe. Right.

00:59:09.000 But it's worth I think you mentioned it that is where

00:59:11.000 compliance culture.

00:59:12.000 Yeah. So the New York Times claimed that Tom Cotton's op ed

00:59:16.000 you know sending the troops for the riots was making the

00:59:20.000 office unsafe for black.

00:59:21.000 That's exactly what I'm talking about exploitation of existing

00:59:24.000 law.

00:59:24.000 Yeah. Yeah.

00:59:26.000 Yep.

00:59:26.000 So you're right, I don't... I'm not worried about... That's my fear.

00:59:29.000 So you're getting... So I... We began this by saying you're over-dramatizing it, but that is my exact fear.

00:59:34.000 Yes, that is dangerous.

00:59:34.000 But it's gonna happen.

00:59:35.000 Yes, it's already happening.

00:59:36.000 So I think about the Supreme Court's recent ruling on workplace equality pertaining to same-sex relationships and transgender, and their argument that while sex does include these things, therefore the previous, you know, laws do protect these characteristics.

00:59:54.000 And they used, interestingly, what they did was, and look, I'm all for workplace equality, stuff like that,

01:00:02.000 but I think it's interesting that the Supreme Court said, because you can't discriminate someone

01:00:07.000 based on their relationship, unless you're targeting them based on sex,

01:00:12.000 it is a protected category to be gay, lesbian, bisexual, et cetera.

01:00:17.000 You remember when they did that?

01:00:18.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:00:19.000 It was a very technical argument.

01:00:21.000 Right, the reason I bring this up specifically, though, they're changing the definitions of words.

01:00:26.000 And when the definition of the word changes, then the amendment changes afterwards.

01:00:30.000 So if you can't change a constitutional amendment, you can change the meaning of words.

01:00:34.000 What is white supremacy?

01:00:36.000 So now they've made it so that white supremacy is quite literally Time.

01:00:41.000 Hard work.

01:00:42.000 And that's it.

01:00:44.000 These things have existed for decades.

01:00:45.000 These ideas that have been seeded and are expanding and are now becoming mainstream.

01:00:49.000 And how dangerous and raw... So you're referring to... That's exactly... The left was saying that hard work and individuality and, like, having a stable family and all those things are elements of white culture.

01:01:00.000 Right.

01:01:00.000 Which is something an ardent racist, an actual white supremacist, an alt-right person would say that.

01:01:06.000 That this is what differentiates white culture and that's why it's better.

01:01:09.000 So how harmful, and I think that view is totally wrong, but the left was promoting that view, in agreement with that view.

01:01:17.000 It was on the website of the National African American Museum.

01:01:20.000 From the Smithsonian.

01:01:21.000 Yes.

01:01:21.000 So that's, yeah, that is bad.

01:01:24.000 So you're gonna say to me that you can overhype the problem we're facing here.

01:01:29.000 I don't think so.

01:01:30.000 I think, to me, this is a serious existential threat.

01:01:33.000 And I think the easiest example is, I know it's a bit cliche for my audience because I bring it up relatively often, but There's a reason why I do.

01:01:42.000 I grew up hearing stories about life before Loving v. Virginia and the Civil Rights Act, and it sounds scary for my family.

01:01:49.000 And California Democrats just voted to repeal Prop 209, so it's going to referendum, quite literally repealing their civil rights law at the state level for public employment and schools and stuff.

01:02:00.000 So the left is actually, this is interesting.

01:02:02.000 You're familiar with the term reactionary in the proper context.

01:02:05.000 It's funny.

01:02:05.000 So the left likes to point out, you know, right-wing reactionaries.

01:02:09.000 It's a reference to the French Revolution, those who reacted to the revolution and opposed it.

01:02:13.000 So reactionary typically means you want to keep the status quo and prevent the revolution.

01:02:18.000 But what the left is doing is actually turning the clock backwards on freedom of speech and civil rights.

01:02:24.000 They're quite literally a reactionary movement that everything you just said about ardent racists and white supremacists.

01:02:31.000 The Democrats of today are trying to go back to what the Democrats of the 1950s believed in a weird and slightly different kind of way.

01:02:37.000 Like, they genuinely believe that white culture inherently endorses or produces hard work and saving for the future, and they're guilty about it or something.

01:02:50.000 I guess to be fair though, there still are, to some degree, there are still some racist beliefs in society that are prevalent among white people.

01:02:57.000 Of course, of course.

01:02:59.000 White conservatives.

01:03:00.000 And also, I always have to bring this up because it is, I talk a lot about it, you do as well, leftist, cancel culture, free speech issues on campuses.

01:03:09.000 There are also tons and tons and tons of cases of conservatives flipping out about professor, leftist professor says something like, America is bad, or like, I don't support support the flag or something.

01:03:20.000 And what happens every time, all the, not everyone, I don't do this, maybe you don't do this,

01:03:25.000 when we're not conservatives, but the freak out among a certain kind of turning point USA crowd

01:03:32.000 who in every other context has canceled culture's bad, like oh, we need to fire, we need to hold

01:03:37.000 this person accountable, like it's so lame, it's so pathetic, and so many conservatives do this.

01:03:41.000 I'm reminded of when. And I hate it.

01:03:42.000 I'm reminded of when Trump said, jail time for burning the flag.

01:03:45.000 Right, an issue that has been litigated by, But it could not be clearer.

01:03:49.000 The Supreme Court has said, you can burn the flag.

01:03:51.000 Right.

01:03:52.000 It's an open and shut First Amendment case and it really does, it's annoying that, it's annoying and wrong that President Trump would say otherwise and that the conservative people would freak out about that.

01:04:01.000 So I think, look, I wouldn't burn the flag.

01:04:05.000 I'm not a fan of people burning the flag.

01:04:08.000 But I am a fan of the freedom it represents, burning the flag.

01:04:11.000 And so that's a part of living in a free society, where an individual, as long as it's your property, that's a big thing.

01:04:15.000 because I remember I was at some event where they were trying to light a flag on fire and

01:04:19.000 then some right-wing guy took it back because it was actually stolen from him and people

01:04:24.000 were like, it's a free speech, it's a free speech and then they were like, you stole

01:04:27.000 the flag from someone, it's not your property.

01:04:29.000 Right, that's not.

01:04:30.000 If you want to have your own property to burn, you do it, but they were trying to, you know,

01:04:33.000 make some kind of.

01:04:34.000 It's important as a free speech point because this is a country that protects free speech

01:04:40.000 on paper, vis-a-vis the First Amendment, to a greater degree than any country on earth.

01:04:44.000 in a very serious way.

01:04:45.000 You have hate crime laws that are much more serious, that actually do criminalize outright speech in other jurisdictions, in other countries.

01:04:53.000 You can't... libel laws are in some other country, in Australia, in the UK.

01:05:00.000 Journalists can't do their jobs.

01:05:01.000 They can't say true things about people because they're going to be sued for it.

01:05:05.000 This is a country that protects free speech to a really enviable degree, and it's rare, and it's uncommon, and it's not historically... Like, free speech is new.

01:05:13.000 I mean, even in America, for World War I, people who were protesting World War I or handing out leaflets, they got thrown in jail, and the Supreme Court said that was fine.

01:05:21.000 Yep.

01:05:21.000 Now they've backed off that, and we have currently the most wildly pro-free speech Supreme Court that has ever existed.

01:05:27.000 We have the most pro-free speech authority of, like, legal authority that has ever existed on Earth, and that's a very good thing.

01:05:35.000 You know we used to have an office of censorship?

01:05:36.000 Right.

01:05:37.000 And their slogan was, silence accelerates victory.

01:05:39.000 Right.

01:05:39.000 That was World War II.

01:05:40.000 Right.

01:05:40.000 So what a lot of these, a lot of people don't realize is that our current understanding of free speech is really new.

01:05:47.000 Like, this is a country that has a First Amendment.

01:05:48.000 This is what's really amazing about the First Amendment, is that it meant almost nothing a long time ago.

01:05:53.000 It actually took the rulings of the Supreme Court, better understandings of freedom and liberty, to bring us to this point.

01:05:59.000 This is what's really funny.

01:06:01.000 When they criticize free speech warriors, the left, they're like, ooh, the free speech warriors, the far-right reactionary, blah, blah, blah.

01:06:07.000 Like, when you talk about the inception of this country, the Bill of Rights came, what, like it was like a decade or so after the country was formed?

01:06:14.000 And even then, they weren't really properly enforced in that sense.

01:06:18.000 No, the Alien Sedition Acts were terrible on free speech grounds.

01:06:22.000 Well, so I'm not super familiar, but to the point I was going for is we had obscenity laws.

01:06:28.000 Yes.

01:06:29.000 We had moral authoritarianism.

01:06:31.000 It was a very religious culture.

01:06:33.000 And we move forward through the years.

01:06:37.000 We eventually come across people like Frederick Douglass and anti-slavery stuff, where they really challenged the idea of what it means to be free and what our Constitution really means.

01:06:48.000 And even then we still did not have outright free speech the way we know it today.

01:06:53.000 That's what I remember, like looking at like the Viet, you know, I think it was the 70s, or was it, when were they doing the big free speech stuff on Berkeley?

01:07:00.000 It was the 60s, 1963.

01:07:02.000 60s.

01:07:02.000 Yeah.

01:07:03.000 So my understanding, I was reading about this.

01:07:05.000 I read, I talk about it a lot in the book.

01:07:07.000 Yeah.

01:07:08.000 So do you know, do you know when the Supreme Court like officially gave us our most current iteration of free speech?

01:07:14.000 Well, the most recent decisions that establish a very broad understanding of free speech are really the, it's the Westboro Baptist case, in my view, because there the Supreme Court said you can go, it's on public property on the road, you can shout the most vile things you can possibly imagine in the most sympathetic context for the victim you're shouting them at, people who've been killed in military service, and you can shout awful things and that is protected by the First Amendment.

01:07:41.000 If that speech is protected by the First Amendment, Everything that is offensive to the social justice world is obviously protected, if that's protected.

01:07:50.000 And that was the early 21st century.

01:07:53.000 Is that the free speech the Founders envisioned?

01:07:55.000 No, probably it's not.

01:07:57.000 There was probably some of them.

01:07:58.000 I mean, there was the Quaker ethos, the Voltaire Enlightenment ethos, that I may disagree or even hate what you have to say, but I will fight to the death to defend it.

01:08:08.000 There's always been free speech.

01:08:09.000 You're right to say it.

01:08:10.000 You're right to say it, not the content.

01:08:12.000 There have always been free speech dissidents in society, even in like intense kind of medieval Europe, like Geneva, like kind of John Calvin obscenity types.

01:08:23.000 There were some people saying, no, we should have free speech.

01:08:27.000 But for most of human history, for most people, it was...

01:08:30.000 I mean, it wasn't even just if you offend the religious authorities of the king.

01:08:33.000 If you badmouth your neighbors, they would come kill you.

01:08:36.000 I mean, there was a... in Iceland, right, there's a court to adjudicate disputes between rival clans

01:08:42.000 that are insulting other people.

01:08:44.000 Yeah, I think that's the basis of it.

01:08:46.000 It was kind of anarchist and cool.

01:08:47.000 We won't get into it.

01:08:49.000 Anarchist and cool, you say?

01:08:51.000 But you would fight.

01:08:52.000 You would fight duel.

01:08:53.000 You would challenge people to duels.

01:08:54.000 Even up through the early part of the 1800s in America, you would challenge people to duels if their speech offended you.

01:09:00.000 So there was no understanding of free speech.

01:09:02.000 It was a small number of people who really held to that.

01:09:05.000 And we managed to make that the law of the land for our country somehow, and it's great.

01:09:10.000 So what you're saying is we could resolve a lot of our problems if we brought back dueling.

01:09:14.000 I don't think I said that.

01:09:16.000 I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

01:09:17.000 Can we have like Smash Brothers tournaments or something instead?

01:09:21.000 Well, I guess the issue with dueling was that you quite literally silenced the person forever, and they would never then speak ill of you again.

01:09:29.000 In Steven Pinker's book about the decline of violence, he argues that dueling stopped basically because the younger generation thought it was really dumb, and they were like, why are you killing people over this?

01:09:42.000 So it like became uncool.

01:09:44.000 That's great.

01:09:44.000 You know, you mentioned that we have a very, very free speech country.

01:09:48.000 And, you know, we're talking a bit about how maybe it's not what the Founding Fathers envisioned, but there are a lot of problems that come with it.

01:09:53.000 Fake news.

01:09:54.000 I mean, and that's one of the first things we talked about in this livestream.

01:10:00.000 The Covington stuff.

01:10:01.000 Yeah.

01:10:01.000 So, we do have libel laws, but the Covington kids, notably Nick Sandman, who's suing these news outlets, he's won technically, I think.

01:10:10.000 Because it's a settlement.

01:10:11.000 Exactly.

01:10:12.000 They weren't court victories, but I think it's fair to say that that is, in a sense, a victory, because often the goal is to force a settlement.

01:10:20.000 Yeah.

01:10:21.000 You know, they sued for, what, $250 million?

01:10:22.000 Yeah.

01:10:23.000 Because they're not gonna get that.

01:10:24.000 Nowhere close.

01:10:25.000 Right.

01:10:26.000 So I don't- They got something.

01:10:27.000 They got something, and I'm sure it was pretty good.

01:10:30.000 I don't- I think the people who are pointing out that it was a nuisance payout, so basically that means it's cheaper for, you know, CNN or the Washington Post.

01:10:38.000 I think that's who paid out, right?

01:10:39.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:10:40.000 It's cheaper for them to just pay them to go away than to deal with the court case, but I'd imagine they got a little bit more than that, because I think they risked going to discovery.

01:10:49.000 You know, the judge had ruled that some of them were good, and that meant that if it moved forward, then likely Nick Salmon's lawyer would sue and get access to their communications.

01:10:57.000 Right, the judge changed his mind in the, I can't remember, it was, whichever case was first, and I can't remember if it was CNN or Washington Post.

01:11:02.000 I think it was Washington Post.

01:11:04.000 I don't remember, but he had a ruling basically saying that... I mean, it's a complicated case, because you have to establish... Because really, the libelous party, to some degree, is the Native American man, who said, you know, who said, I was being a predator and prey, but you don't go after him, he doesn't have any money.

01:11:21.000 He doesn't have two niggles to rub together.

01:11:23.000 So, CNN and Washington, the mainstream outlets that first reported on it, they're relying on, which is essentially a false witness, someone who gave them false information.

01:11:31.000 So to what degree are they responsible?

01:11:33.000 What degree are they liable for reporting on that?

01:11:36.000 For reporting what someone told them they saw.

01:11:38.000 Do you know what I mean?

01:11:38.000 So that was a little bit of my, just even though they jumped the gun on this story, and then you get to, well, why are you even writing this story?

01:11:45.000 This isn't a... There's no confirmation.

01:11:47.000 And this isn't a public person.

01:11:48.000 It isn't a matter of public importance.

01:11:50.000 It's not, and that matters, that Nick Sandman is not a public person because the standard is different whether you're a public person or private person.

01:11:57.000 So it raised a lot of interesting questions.

01:11:59.000 So they decided, and then also the things being described, are they actually, are they just opinion characterizations?

01:12:05.000 Like is he smirking or smiling?

01:12:07.000 That's not going to be a factual assertion.

01:12:09.000 So the factual, the only thing I think the judge decided was maybe a factual assertion was, was he blocking the path?

01:12:15.000 Right.

01:12:16.000 I think they may have actually got more than people realize.

01:12:18.000 And I mean, you know, when I say a little... I don't know.

01:12:20.000 You don't think so?

01:12:22.000 No, maybe.

01:12:22.000 I have no idea.

01:12:22.000 to be able to amount, I would think, depend, you know, the jurisdiction might be sympathetic to him

01:12:26.000 anyway, that was a factual assertion that they got wrong. I think they may have actually got

01:12:30.000 more than people realize. And I mean, you know, when I say a little, you don't think so? No,

01:12:35.000 maybe, I have no idea. You know why? Discovery probably would have cost those companies so

01:12:39.000 much money.

01:12:41.000 I mean, I wonder.

01:12:42.000 I don't know about reason, but you guys have like a Slack or something where you communicate with other employees?

01:12:47.000 And do you say things that you would hope and pray would never become public?

01:12:52.000 Dear God, yes.

01:12:53.000 Right.

01:12:53.000 Now imagine what Washington Post and CNN are saying.

01:12:56.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:12:57.000 They're probably thinking, how much will we lose if it turns out that our employees were laughing and mocking the kid and saying, who cares, he's a Nazi?

01:13:03.000 Well, we know what they said publicly on Twitter.

01:13:05.000 They're people affiliated with CNN, at least.

01:13:08.000 And that's them being careful though.

01:13:10.000 So, I want to punch this kid.

01:13:12.000 Imagine if they were, imagine what, like one person posted a picture of a wood chipper

01:13:15.000 with blood coming out and they were like, you know, a guy who worked for Disney I guess.

01:13:19.000 I don't know, be careful.

01:13:20.000 Fact check me on that one.

01:13:21.000 You always had to say Jake Tapper was the first, like the first blue checkmark person

01:13:25.000 to retweet my article when I came out with this.

01:13:28.000 I, the mainstream media did a bad job with this story but swiftly corrected themselves.

01:13:34.000 There are still outlets that are more like ideological, like there was an article for Slate, there was an article for Deadspin, that still to this day maintain that Nick Sandman was a racist who got in this guy's face.

01:13:46.000 And so I... A lot of criticism, and I'm plenty critical of the mainstream media all the time, but this one's... It's like, okay, I see where they got it wrong, but...

01:13:56.000 There are actually greater media sins in this that just don't get talked about as much.

01:14:00.000 That persist to this day.

01:14:00.000 For sure.

01:14:02.000 I'm going to say something that should be considered a compliment, I guess, but I consider Jake Tapper our media D student.

01:14:09.000 He's not as bad.

01:14:10.000 He's not nearly as bad.

01:14:11.000 A D is bad, but he gets a passing grade.

01:14:15.000 I like Tapper.

01:14:16.000 I think he's a good reporter.

01:14:17.000 I give him a D. Maybe a D+.

01:14:18.000 That's harsh.

01:14:22.000 It is, yeah.

01:14:23.000 Well, it's not as bad as a lot of the people, you know, the grades I'd give.

01:14:25.000 But, you know, he's said and done things in the past that are particularly, like, ill-informed and bad.

01:14:31.000 He's had his moments.

01:14:32.000 I think he tweets commentary from a variety of sources, which is very valuable if you're in the mainstream.

01:14:37.000 You're not just listening to people in your own echo chamber.

01:14:40.000 He has tweeted a lot of my articles.

01:14:42.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:14:43.000 That's why I give him a passing grade.

01:14:44.000 I guess it's because I have a lot of disdain for a lot of these media companies.

01:14:50.000 So, anyway, just to wrap up that previous point about internal slacks, I've worked for some of these companies, and for those unfamiliar, Slack is like Discord, I guess, for corporations.

01:15:01.000 It's a communication server.

01:15:02.000 I love how that's how you describe it to your audience.

01:15:04.000 I would have said it's like GChat.

01:15:06.000 I don't think anybody... What is GChat?

01:15:09.000 So, uh, yeah, I don't know.

01:15:11.000 People know what Discord is.

01:15:12.000 Everybody uses Discord to some degree, or a lot of people do.

01:15:15.000 It's a popular thing.

01:15:15.000 Like, you know, on Reddit, people mention their Discords.

01:15:18.000 So Slack is relatively similar.

01:15:20.000 But I've worked for some of these companies, man.

01:15:21.000 I tell you, if these private logs ever got published...

01:15:26.000 Woo!

01:15:27.000 Spicy.

01:15:27.000 Yep.

01:15:27.000 You get the servers.

01:15:28.000 And even if they've erased them, man, you can recover all that stuff.

01:15:31.000 You can recover it.

01:15:31.000 should delete their...

01:15:32.000 Yeah, you can't.

01:15:33.000 You can't get rid of them.

01:15:34.000 Oh, I guess they stay and like, well, if it was a subpoena, you could get, you'd have

01:15:37.000 to subpoena Slack.

01:15:38.000 I guess you could.

01:15:39.000 Yep.

01:15:40.000 You get the servers.

01:15:41.000 I'm talking through it right now.

01:15:42.000 Yeah, I got it.

01:15:43.000 And even if they've erased them, man, you can recover all that stuff.

01:15:47.000 You can recover it.

01:15:48.000 It just depends on how far you're willing to go.

01:15:49.000 Yeah.

01:15:50.000 Yeah, but so here's why I think Nick Salmon may have gotten more than people realize.

01:15:53.000 If the judge is saying, these are good, we're going to move forward, the next step is discovery.

01:15:57.000 And they're going to say, we want to know what you were saying behind the scenes about Nick Sandman because they want to prove intent, malice, actual malice.

01:16:03.000 Meaning, did these people, these news organizations know what they were producing was false?

01:16:08.000 I don't think they did.

01:16:11.000 I think they got taken in by a believable and credible-seeming witness who was there and told them something that was totally wrong.

01:16:19.000 As a journalist, as someone who writes articles, that's a tough position to end up in.

01:16:24.000 It wasn't an anonymous source.

01:16:25.000 They just said, this guy said this.

01:16:28.000 Yeah, but a lot of people wrote stories without even contacting Phillips, the Native American guy.

01:16:34.000 They just said, in a viral video, a young man is seen blocking the path and smirking.

01:16:39.000 But Phillips gave an interview to a couple outlets, and then they, so then they're, I mean, I do, you quote, you block quote something from a different article.

01:16:49.000 That's a problem.

01:16:51.000 So a lot of these outlets didn't make, some of the outlets that wrote about this didn't reference Phillips' statements.

01:16:57.000 They launched off of them to make the actual factual assertion.

01:17:01.000 So this is the problem of free speech, particularly with our very rigorous defamation protections, anti-SLAPP laws.

01:17:07.000 That's a, what is it, strategic lawsuit against public participation?

01:17:10.000 Yep.

01:17:11.000 A lot of states have this, and it's like, you sue for defamation and they say, your public figures?

01:17:15.000 Don't care.

01:17:15.000 Goodbye.

01:17:16.000 You're out.

01:17:16.000 Gets dismissed really, really quickly.

01:17:18.000 And that creates the fake news problem, which results in chaos.

01:17:24.000 Yeah, I mean, this is a tough line, because, like I said, I don't want to draw the defamation standard a lot tighter, because then you can chill important discussions, the ability to hold powerful people accountable.

01:17:38.000 I mean, Harvey Weinstein, that story could not be written in another country.

01:17:42.000 It just couldn't.

01:17:44.000 No one would print it.

01:17:45.000 Even here, there was some effort to shut it down, to threaten those kinds of things, yeah.

01:17:50.000 So it now the difference is so how do we I do but I believe in privacy very strongly.

01:17:56.000 So the question now is in the social media age.

01:17:59.000 How do we protect to the extent we even can privacy for non-public people?

01:18:06.000 I don't actually I don't care if people if people there has to be a high threshold of just allowing you to say wrong crazy stuff about famous people.

01:18:13.000 For people like Sandman, who's just a regular person, how do you protect those kinds of people's right to have privacy or not be written about or characterized in this way without expanding libel?

01:18:24.000 Is there some other way you can do it?

01:18:26.000 That's the kind of thing I think about a lot these days.

01:18:29.000 Or could there be a...

01:18:32.000 Or like, you know, like Gawker publishing, like, actually humiliating video, or like sex videos.

01:18:37.000 Yeah.

01:18:37.000 I mean, they did that not even to Hulk Hogan, but just a random woman who was assaulted while she was drunk in a sports stadium.

01:18:43.000 They did it to a guy who was an executive, I think, at Conde Nast.

01:18:46.000 Oh yeah, that was, they outed him.

01:18:48.000 Yeah, when he, or whatever, when, yeah, he was something outside of marriage.

01:18:48.000 They outed him.

01:18:51.000 He was being blackmailed.

01:18:52.000 That was terrible.

01:18:52.000 And they participated in this blackmail, that was horrible.

01:18:55.000 They did so many horrible, horrible, horrible things, and actually they did ultimately, they, I mean, they very much deserved what they got.

01:19:02.000 This is tough.

01:19:03.000 You know, our free speech protections that we describe is a really good argument.

01:19:08.000 Who would write about Weinstein?

01:19:09.000 That guy's got so much money, he's going to bury you in legal fees.

01:19:12.000 And because of our laws, people were able to write this stuff.

01:19:15.000 But at the same time, what about not-wealthy public figures whose lives and businesses are destroyed?

01:19:23.000 So I think about how this pertains to Section 230 and these big tech companies.

01:19:28.000 Notably, remember that, you know, it was the, uh, I'll just call it the poopy men in media list, because I'm going to try to avoid swearing, but you know what I'm talking about.

01:19:36.000 For those that aren't familiar, there was a list that was put together where people just put random accusations on it of, like, men who, you know, were engaged in assault or impropriety, and it resulted in some people having their lives completely destroyed.

01:19:49.000 There was one dude who was innocent, falsely accused, and he wrote this article, and it was really weird, and he said the reason why his story is fake is because he had a very strange sexuality or something that didn't make sense based on what they'd accused him of, and it was just someone who was vindictive and hated him.

01:20:04.000 He lost his job.

01:20:06.000 Nobody would hire him because they knew he was on the list.

01:20:08.000 And then now he works at like a theater as like a theater manager or something ridiculous.

01:20:10.000 But that woman is being sued.

01:20:11.000 The woman who made the list and then I think other people added to it, she's being sued and it's a very interesting case.

01:20:18.000 It is, it is.

01:20:19.000 Yeah, it's been going on for a while though.

01:20:21.000 The Section 237 is very interesting on this front.

01:20:23.000 Well, so here's the challenge.

01:20:24.000 What happens if someone tweets, you know, wasn't it like a Google Doc that went and tweeted or something?

01:20:31.000 The list?

01:20:32.000 It was a Google Doc.

01:20:35.000 But it was not made to be made public.

01:20:37.000 It was a private Google Doc, and then somebody else made it public.

01:20:39.000 So that might matter too.

01:20:40.000 I actually don't think that matters.

01:20:42.000 In defamation, private defamation is the same.

01:20:44.000 So if you and I are having a conversation about John Smith, and you're like, oh yeah, John Smith, he's a guy, I might work with him.

01:20:52.000 And I'm like, no, no, no, that guy's a Nazi.

01:20:53.000 And then you're like, whoa.

01:20:54.000 Well, right, it has to have caused material harm, so presumably it doesn't if it's just a private conversation.

01:21:00.000 This is the challenge, because when you get these, you know, far-off individuals who engage in these smear tactics against, say, someone like Andy Ngo, where they just, they know they're lying.

01:21:11.000 and they completely falsely frame or push things out of context, it is very different to an

01:21:17.000 individual in the real world saying something. Technology has created a completely different

01:21:22.000 atmosphere where you can literally destroy someone and then argue,

01:21:26.000 I'm but a snowflake in the avalanche.

01:21:29.000 I only said my opinion.

01:21:32.000 So how do you stop this?

01:21:34.000 If Twitter knows something is overtly wrong or false, it's a serious challenge.

01:21:40.000 I'm for free speech.

01:21:43.000 We're having this conversation right now.

01:21:45.000 Twitter is the more aggressively biased social media platform to my mind.

01:21:53.000 I think Facebook is worse now.

01:21:54.000 I don't think that.

01:21:55.000 You don't think so?

01:21:55.000 I think Mark Zuckerberg has, I mean the things he, his stated commitment to free speech is much stronger than Jack Dorsey's.

01:22:02.000 Definitely.

01:22:02.000 The things he said at the committee meetings.

01:22:05.000 Facebook has been stronger on saying we're really not going to try to fact check ads, their ads, sorry.

01:22:10.000 I think Facebook to a greater degree has said I mean, they're still gonna, they still do some policing of, of, of, uh, there are plenty of policing of misinformation to some degree, but I think in a less heavy-handed or biased way.

01:22:22.000 I mean, Facebook is so good.

01:22:23.000 This is why I get upset with conservatives who want to get rid of Section 230.

01:22:27.000 Facebook has been, um, such a powerful platform for conservative speech.

01:22:32.000 Breitbart, uh, uh, Daily Wire, Ben Shapiro, Dan Bongino, their views on Facebook dwarf mainstream media.

01:22:32.000 Oh, definitely.

01:22:40.000 So if you were going to tinker with Facebook's liability for what appears on its platform, I mean, so the media wants, like, Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren support getting rid of Section 230 because they're smart people on some level, and they realize that conservatives can succeed in an alternate media environment, whereas, like, the New York Times isn't even going to ever print a Republican senator's opinion again.

01:23:02.000 So, yeah, let's go back to that world.

01:23:05.000 Why do people like Josh Hawley want that?

01:23:08.000 It's insane.

01:23:08.000 Well, I think that is a mistake, but I think we need 230 reform.

01:23:13.000 If I was to... yeah.

01:23:16.000 It could be tweaked in a way to, I think, probably protect privacy of non-public people, especially maybe their videos or something.

01:23:25.000 I might be on board with that, but I'm just so worried that any attempt to change it will just result in it being done away with.

01:23:31.000 The problem is, on Twitter, for example, they will ban conservatives for saying Learn to Code.

01:23:38.000 Like, that's clearly not within the scope of 230.

01:23:40.000 Well, it's not, no, they can do whatever they want.

01:23:45.000 The good faith provision of 230 says objectionable content.

01:23:49.000 Are you going to argue in court that banning someone for saying hashtag Learn to Code, would a reasonable person believe that is objectionable?

01:23:56.000 Or that lewd and lascivious, violent or graphic?

01:23:59.000 No, of course not.

01:24:00.000 230 just says they can do, right, good faith moderation.

01:24:03.000 Of objectionable content.

01:24:06.000 So a conversation that we've had on the show quite a bit is, you know, one thing Trump's tried to do is define what good faith is, what objectionable is, because Twitter is certainly not engaged in good faith.

01:24:19.000 I think if you presented the evidence to a reasonable jury, they'd say that's definitely not good faith.

01:24:23.000 Well, the issue with the suspensions, though, is they're all complaint-driven.

01:24:27.000 he treated ok do that that at somebody who didn't know was trans and he got

01:24:30.000 suspended for it that's not good faith well

01:24:33.000 the issue with the suspensions though is they're all complaint-driven

01:24:36.000 so it ends up looking biased and the the maybe the impact is by a lawyer but it's

01:24:41.000 because there's more lefty people complaining absolutely say people are

01:24:44.000 they why is this up when this is or why is this taken out when this is up and

01:24:48.000 And you can do that ad infinitive.

01:24:49.000 On YouTube, you can do that with a true, and there's so much content.

01:24:52.000 And the answer is always, someone complained about that.

01:24:54.000 Someone didn't complain about that.

01:24:56.000 What do you do?

01:24:57.000 It's because the left is organized.

01:24:58.000 And because they'll say, hey everybody, go flag this tweet and get it taken down.

01:25:01.000 But I'm saying, I don't know how the social media platform can solve that problem.

01:25:05.000 I don't know how they could, or if they should be held accountable.

01:25:07.000 That's just, that's gonna be the nature, with so much content, Not enough.

01:25:11.000 You can't police it on the front end.

01:25:13.000 And if you require people to approve it before it appears, that's the end of the whole game.

01:25:17.000 I don't know what to do.

01:25:18.000 You have content being... There's a lot of problems with Facebook, and Facebook, I think, absolutely crossed the line with... I think Facebook's in direct violation of 230 by appointing fact-checkers.

01:25:30.000 Right off the bat.

01:25:31.000 No, no, no, not that.

01:25:32.000 I like that, but this is, I like that you're talking about that council.

01:25:36.000 I think that council, which includes some, like some, there's a free speech scholar of

01:25:40.000 Cato, there's some people who seem to have considered.

01:25:43.000 No, no, no, not that.

01:25:44.000 I'm talking about how there is a special editorial group on Facebook where you go through the

01:25:50.000 pointer, it was a pointer institute, you get certified and then your organization can determine

01:25:55.000 whether things are true or false.

01:25:56.000 Those are the fact-checkers.

01:25:57.000 Right.

01:25:58.000 But they also have, they gave, didn't they give the Daily Caller fact-checker status as well?

01:26:01.000 Yeah, but it doesn't mean anything.

01:26:03.000 It doesn't matter if there's a conservative or two, it matters that they have a special class of people who can flag my content as false.

01:26:12.000 So I had a post I made about Bill Clinton and the woman who, you know, ID'd him on the island in the court documents that went out.

01:26:21.000 My tweet was 100% factually true, and a fact-checking organization put a block over it saying it was false information.

01:26:30.000 Well, that's a statement of fact, that my post is false, when it was in fact true, and they knew it was true because the dude told me on the phone he knew it was true.

01:26:38.000 So now we're talking about actual malice.

01:26:42.000 When you link to the guy's... So it says false information.

01:26:45.000 When you click it, it sends you to his website where he makes money.

01:26:45.000 Here's why.

01:26:49.000 Off of ads.

01:26:49.000 I'm assuming.

01:26:51.000 So by putting fake fact checks on my content, he can make people click his link to his website and get cash out of it even though he knows what I posted was true.

01:26:59.000 That's a special class of people.

01:27:01.000 That is not a regular person.

01:27:03.000 That would be like the New York Times hiring a fact checker to go in and change posts and link to other content.

01:27:09.000 That's completely editorial.

01:27:12.000 And that's Facebook.

01:27:13.000 So, listen.

01:27:13.000 That seems like a bad idea, or something they should not do, but it seems like the solution is to complain about it until they stop doing it, or call attention to it, or... Facebook told me right off the bat, I emailed their politics person, they said, we will not intervene in any way.

01:27:27.000 They said, they have the right to do so.

01:27:29.000 And so, my question now is, this is a really interesting... But it's their company, right?

01:27:33.000 I mean, they can do what they want, at the end of the day.

01:27:36.000 Not if they're stealing the commons.

01:27:38.000 I completely disagree with that.

01:27:39.000 It's a private company.

01:27:41.000 They own it.

01:27:42.000 So if a private company puts up fences around Town Square and puts armed guards around it... It's not Town Square.

01:27:47.000 It's their property.

01:27:48.000 It's their Town Square.

01:27:49.000 They may act like it's the Town Square, but it's... I mean, at the end of the day, it's theirs.

01:27:52.000 The best way to... You can complain about their rules, but it's a free product they give you.

01:27:57.000 See, I think this is where we have a strong disagreement.

01:28:01.000 If they've taken over the commons due to technological advancement, then we have a duty to regulate that to protect the public.

01:28:07.000 There's no way it's a monopoly.

01:28:09.000 It's a free product.

01:28:11.000 I don't believe it has staying.

01:28:14.000 If it makes enough people mad, enough people are dissatisfied with it, a rival could easily come around.

01:28:19.000 Twitter is to some degree, these other companies are to some degree a rival.

01:28:21.000 They've tried, and you know what's happened?

01:28:23.000 Well, I remember Myspace being a big thing.

01:28:25.000 It's gone now.

01:28:26.000 And what happens... Parler could come along.

01:28:28.000 And what happens when... And you know what they did to Mines?

01:28:31.000 M-I-N-D-S dot com.

01:28:32.000 There was a block on it.

01:28:33.000 Facebook wouldn't let you link to the website.

01:28:35.000 You'd get a warning saying, nope, you can't go there.

01:28:37.000 If you're going there from Facebook.

01:28:39.000 Facebook made it so that if you ever tried... I think they've removed it since then, but Google and Facebook for a while blocked the URL to Mines dot com.

01:28:47.000 Google is a more compelling monopoly case to my mind than Facebook.

01:28:52.000 It's just...

01:28:53.000 Well, it's not so much an argument about monopoly, because what service does Facebook provide is a bigger question.

01:28:58.000 Connecting you to loved ones.

01:29:00.000 If that's the case, then they do have a monopoly.

01:29:03.000 And if they're restricting what you can say, and they've taken over the communication lines between you and your parents because you don't call them anymore because you just talk to them on Facebook Messenger, then they're starting to take away from the public space.

01:29:15.000 Well, that's like saying Giant has a monopoly on groceries because I'm too lazy to walk two more blocks to Trader Joe's.

01:29:21.000 Or Trader Joe's got shut down because Facebook moved in, dropped the prices to a ridiculous degree because they can afford to.

01:29:27.000 Giant's not required to advertise for Trader Joe's in the Giant.

01:29:31.000 So here's the issue.

01:29:33.000 It's their building.

01:29:34.000 So Facebook could ban you and your ideology outright.

01:29:38.000 Your ideas, everything would cease to exist in a generation.

01:29:42.000 Where are people getting their news from?

01:29:44.000 and where's the thought from other people.

01:29:46.000 Now you're too.

01:29:47.000 This is where we do it. You are too online.

01:29:49.000 You're only it's only that like there's so many other places

01:29:52.000 conversations are happening.

01:29:53.000 Also I wouldn't I wouldn't be happy that I would complain vociferously.

01:29:57.000 Where are people getting their news from where people getting

01:30:00.000 their news from not just Facebook.

01:30:02.000 The younger generation, it's almost exclusively social media, and it's predominantly Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube.

01:30:07.000 So, YouTube is a video hub.

01:30:09.000 Facebook is specifically an interactivity between you and people you've chosen to form a network with, and Twitter is mostly people following high-profile individuals.

01:30:18.000 So, these are not... It's hard to quantify what each space does, but Facebook definitely has seized a large portion of the commons.

01:30:27.000 And on these platforms, alternate ideas are thriving like they never have before and like they never would under the mainstream media paradigm.

01:30:35.000 Absolutely.

01:30:36.000 Absolutely.

01:30:36.000 But we have to make sure we maintain that.

01:30:39.000 Otherwise, we create a more disturbed... There's big challenges in both directions.

01:30:44.000 If we absolutely limited 230, so just to clarify for people who aren't familiar, this is the liability protection for these companies, then you would end up with like porn sweeping across Facebook because porn is legal content.

01:30:56.000 Right.

01:30:57.000 And so that's why they have the good faith moderation provision.

01:31:00.000 But the issue I'm bringing up... Or just like harassment on a level that no one wants to... It would just be so unpleasant.

01:31:06.000 Right.

01:31:06.000 Absolutely.

01:31:08.000 Which they would have to do if you applied the First Amendment in the same way.

01:31:10.000 I've encountered a proposal.

01:31:11.000 Will Chamberlain wants... I don't know if you know who that is.

01:31:14.000 Absolutely.

01:31:14.000 He's going to be here tomorrow.

01:31:15.000 Really?

01:31:16.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:31:16.000 Well, you should yell at him about this.

01:31:17.000 We've had this debate.

01:31:18.000 That's what he wants.

01:31:19.000 He thinks the same First Amendment, it should be, it should be nationalized in the sense that the First Amendment should apply to it.

01:31:23.000 Well, they can't police any, they can't police anything.

01:31:25.000 They can.

01:31:26.000 Westboro Baptist Church rules apply.

01:31:28.000 Right, right.

01:31:28.000 That would be a very bad idea.

01:31:29.000 They absolutely can, though, so long as they're so... Well, not under Will Chamberlain's rules.

01:31:33.000 No, they can.

01:31:34.000 So, for instance, the way Mines does it is that there's effectively two layers.

01:31:40.000 Everyone is allowed to post, but if you cross a certain line, then you get a not-safe-for-work filter that has to be turned on.

01:31:47.000 But people can just choose to be like, I want to follow who I want to follow regardless.

01:31:51.000 You break the rules, you go in filter mode.

01:31:54.000 That's an easy way to keep people on the platform while allowing people to stay in their walled garden or whatever.

01:31:59.000 The problem with Facebook that I bring up specifically as it pertains to 230, Is that Facebook is allowing companies to make money off of defaming me.

01:32:07.000 And that's Facebook saying we've elected this special class of people.

01:32:12.000 We've chosen them specifically to make statements on behalf of Facebook that regular people can't.

01:32:18.000 That this is false information or not.

01:32:20.000 Statements of fact that are not based on public user bases.

01:32:25.000 I can't go into Facebook and put a tag on your post saying it's fake.

01:32:29.000 Facebook appointed people to do that.

01:32:31.000 That is a Facebook editorial assignment.

01:32:34.000 That is not protected under 230.

01:32:37.000 That might not be protected under 230 currently.

01:32:39.000 In which case, they're in violation of their liability protections, and anybody should be able to challenge them in that regard.

01:32:44.000 And Twitter, the same thing.

01:32:45.000 Well, it's just like in there, they couldn't put out a... 230 wouldn't protect them from putting out a press release that libeled you.

01:32:53.000 So the situation you're describing might be close enough to that.

01:32:58.000 But that doesn't require 230 reform, because that's fine.

01:33:01.000 No, no, no, right.

01:33:02.000 I'm just saying Facebook's already in violation.

01:33:04.000 Maybe they are.

01:33:04.000 And I guess there's probably a longer legal conversation about whether they are or they aren't, but the way I see it is, if the New York Times is curating content, or actually a better example is like BuzzFeed's community posts they used to have.

01:33:17.000 They choose what to post.

01:33:19.000 So if someone writes something and the New York Times says, you know, we have a freelance writer who's been appointed to post an article, the New York Times is responsible for what they say when they publish that.

01:33:30.000 Sure.

01:33:31.000 If Facebook is saying we have this select group of 12 people, 12 organizations, who can publish tags on posts, it's not like an article or anything, but they literally called me a liar and it wasn't true.

01:33:41.000 And it just drives traffic from people who want to see my content.

01:33:44.000 It wasn't actually me who posted, it was a screenshot of one of my tweets from a different Facebook page.

01:33:49.000 People can make money off this.

01:33:51.000 Facebook has empowered people to make money by defaming other people.

01:33:55.000 Facebook has created that class.

01:33:56.000 They're not regular users.

01:33:57.000 If you turned on talk radio or cable news, people make money off of saying untrue things about people all the time.

01:34:03.000 It is a major way for people to make money, just in general.

01:34:07.000 They can be sued, depending on what line they cross, in terms of what they say.

01:34:11.000 I guess I'd be more for expanding the protections for saying things, even if things that are wrong, in that direction, rather than holding Facebook to the same standard.

01:34:23.000 It's most cases it's best handled by calling it out rather than the to my mind the libel the lawsuit should be for areas of unique harm to people who are not public people perhaps involving publication of like private or embarrassing stuff.

01:34:43.000 There's where you find sympathy from me for like, how can we, do we need to tweak the system to more protect people from sites like Gawker, from what they did.

01:34:52.000 That's what I, and I don't have the answer, but that's the area where I'm more, I'm more, there's some kind of, I mean, they're like, publication of private facts is a, can be an element of, I think, element of defamation.

01:35:03.000 How do you feel about antitrust investigations into these big tech companies?

01:35:08.000 I mean, yeah.

01:35:09.000 So in general, I'm skeptical that... I mean, I've watched all the hearings.

01:35:13.000 I'm skeptical that you can really apply antitrust.

01:35:16.000 If you changed antitrust, then they might fall under it.

01:35:18.000 But for antitrust, there has to be a harm from a consumer standpoint.

01:35:22.000 It can't just be that they have all this influence and power and everybody just uses their service.

01:35:26.000 It also has to have a material downside from the customer.

01:35:31.000 Well, like banning mines, for instance.

01:35:33.000 Yeah, so you really can't show that.

01:35:37.000 Maybe it's bad for minds, but it's not bad for the consumer because it's not like I have to pay for more expensive bananas because Facebook has cornered the market on bananas or something.

01:35:47.000 So it's not going to work under the existing antitrust.

01:35:50.000 Now, so I think that's true for Facebook.

01:35:54.000 Apple is, no one even really seems to be asserting that it's a monopoly.

01:35:57.000 It makes a product that just goes with other products.

01:36:00.000 Google has done, you know, so I approach these things with an open mind.

01:36:03.000 I'm generally a free market guy.

01:36:06.000 Google sounds like they did some shady stuff that got brought up that I didn't know about.

01:36:11.000 The thing with, what, with Yelp, was it?

01:36:12.000 Do you know what I'm talking about?

01:36:14.000 Oh, I don't know.

01:36:15.000 No, I don't.

01:36:18.000 There's some dispute there.

01:36:19.000 I think it was with Yelp that they treated them badly.

01:36:21.000 I don't remember exactly enough, so I don't want to say.

01:36:25.000 There was some other stuff.

01:36:26.000 And I know the putting conservative sites on a list and then they suddenly disappear from the Google search results, which they did.

01:36:34.000 sometimes consumers get this wrong because your Google results are

01:36:36.000 different depending on what you've searched but it and they fixed it

01:36:40.000 quickly but it was still weird that they it must have like some it was accidental

01:36:44.000 but there's some switch they could flip wire people on a so I guess like I'm not

01:36:48.000 you know I'm not totally denying the there are any of these problems but I

01:36:52.000 don't really think anyway I don't think breaking up these companies would would

01:36:56.000 improve matters yeah I don't disagree I I mostly agree that it won't improve things, especially when you consider that some of these platforms, you know, YouTube, for instance, can't exist outside of Google itself.

01:37:08.000 Right.

01:37:09.000 Because it's subsidized by a lot of these other things.

01:37:12.000 But here's an example.

01:37:13.000 It's interesting.

01:37:16.000 Two of my channels, Timcast News and Timcast, are blacklisted from Google.

01:37:21.000 They will not appear.

01:37:22.000 In fact, if you search for the title, you'll get Facebook videos instead.

01:37:25.000 But this channel will.

01:37:27.000 And I don't exactly know why that is.

01:37:29.000 It could be that this channel is relatively new from this year and there was a point where YouTube created a list and they straight up eliminated a lot of these channels from their search.

01:37:36.000 Interestingly, a lot of the people who got eliminated tend to be individuals promoting alternative platforms.

01:37:43.000 Right.

01:37:43.000 I mean, it could also be that's just what the algorithm thinks people want when they search these things.

01:37:47.000 It's not necessarily nefarious.

01:37:49.000 Well, no, my channel literally doesn't come up on any page at all.

01:37:51.000 It's just outright banned.

01:37:53.000 So if you search for TimCast on Google, you'll get this channel, which is new, and my other channels just don't exist.

01:37:58.000 You'd think that if you could actually limit the Google search to site, you do site colon YouTube dot com, so that all search only goes to YouTube, it won't come up.

01:38:07.000 It's literally blacklisted.

01:38:09.000 Interestingly, like I mentioned, many of the people who are on this blacklist, because there's a lot of personalities, independent commentators, they're all people who either have supported say like Minds or BitChute or other social media platforms.

01:38:23.000 And all of a sudden we find ourselves on a list where you can't Google search us anymore.

01:38:27.000 I'm currently writing a book about the regulation of speech on social media, and I'm trying to get a hold of Google, so I will ask them if I ever do.

01:38:33.000 I've asked them, too, and they just, like, don't have any answers.

01:38:35.000 Yeah.

01:38:36.000 They're like, huh, that's strange, we'll look into it, and they know what's up.

01:38:38.000 Nothing ever happens.

01:38:39.000 Yeah, it's weird, because I certainly don't think they hate me.

01:38:43.000 Like, I'm rather successful on the platform.

01:38:45.000 Big companies do make mistakes.

01:38:46.000 Right.

01:38:46.000 doing really, really well, and it does come up, I don't know what it is.

01:38:51.000 Maybe it was a rogue employee, you know?

01:38:53.000 Oops, it was a mistake, and they put your name on a list or something, I have no idea.

01:38:57.000 Big companies do make mistakes.

01:38:58.000 Absolutely.

01:38:59.000 My concern, and I think there's a really interesting contrast between you as a libertarian and

01:39:04.000 me as more of a liberal.

01:39:05.000 Right.

01:39:06.000 Yeah, that is what the contrast is here.

01:39:08.000 I'm all like, regulate the company.

01:39:10.000 They're interfering with public, and you're like, no, free market.

01:39:13.000 I think it's great, though, because it's really funny how, I think we actually agree on so much stuff, especially pertaining to the radical left and the insanity, and they've somehow created this big tent of liberals, libertarians, conservatives, moderates, whatever, opposed to them, for the most part.

01:39:31.000 We all get along, hang out, we're like, yes, we disagree on so much we don't talk about anymore, you know what I mean?

01:39:36.000 But I am also always happy to call out bad behavior by these companies.

01:39:41.000 When I see people get banned for stupid reasons, you can come to me, I will share your story, I will look into it.

01:39:47.000 I think that's the method for holding them accountable.

01:39:50.000 I'm worried actually about harming conservative speech if you actually harm the platform.

01:39:54.000 I completely agree with that.

01:39:55.000 If you got rid of 230, independent creators would be totally screwed.

01:39:59.000 Actually, a friend of mine, Casey Maddox, tweeted it because Donald Trump said something about getting rid of 230 or something today.

01:40:06.000 He tweeted it.

01:40:06.000 He did again.

01:40:07.000 And Casey Maddox tweeted it.

01:40:09.000 So here's what it would look like.

01:40:10.000 Thank you, Donald Trump, for submitting this tweet.

01:40:12.000 We will subject it to review and it will appear on our platform within four days.

01:40:17.000 Yeah, it'll be way, way worse.

01:40:18.000 I just think I'm in favor of reform, particularly to clarify what the terms of good faith moderation really mean.

01:40:26.000 That might be fine.

01:40:27.000 Yeah, because banning someone for saying, learn to code, the bigger issue at hand for me is that if Facebook really wanted to, they could guarantee victory to any candidate.

01:40:37.000 Yeah, but I think that would just be so bad for their, like, I think they wouldn't do that.

01:40:42.000 Well, they banned some of the highest profile Trump supporters a year ago.

01:40:46.000 But would, and would that even give, like, then they would, they could just, they could go full MSNBC or full Fox and be so in the tank for one category.

01:40:53.000 YouTube is?

01:40:53.000 With that, right, but that already exists.

01:40:55.000 Well, actually, actually.

01:40:56.000 But the thing is, that phenomenon already exists, because there's already rabidly partisan information outlets spewing selective or biased or even outright disinformation, and it's the world, it's just the world, it's always been the world we live in.

01:41:09.000 I mean, there were, think of, Like, the newspaper where you would get all your information used to be called, like, the Republican or the Democrat.

01:41:16.000 I mean, like, partisan insanity or Yellow Journal.

01:41:20.000 I mean, remember the main, if you're going to go far enough.

01:41:23.000 There's a long history of this kind of thing.

01:41:25.000 I don't think the problem is different because it involves different methods of delivery of information.

01:41:31.000 I'm not sure it's actually notably different in the kind of thing.

01:41:34.000 I think YouTube is the best, and I explain this a lot, that if you go to YouTube, you can actually get a progressive, liberal, moderate, conservative, you know, individual.

01:41:44.000 You can actually hear what a lot of them have to say, and there's actually even some relatively far-right individuals who have survived on the platform for quite some time, although they're the first to get the axe.

01:41:54.000 If you only watch, like, you know, some of these cable news channels, You're in a, you know, a specific partisan building.

01:42:02.000 You go on YouTube, you might get a mixed bag of things.

01:42:05.000 The bigger issue I see is that YouTube is not so much of the problem in my opinion, but they are definitely going mainstream.

01:42:13.000 Like, I think most people will get recommended Fox News videos after they leave this stream.

01:42:18.000 And it's interesting, too, because they've done similar things to, like, Jimmy Dore, who's a lefty.

01:42:23.000 But they recommend Fox News on his channel like crazy.

01:42:26.000 So there was actually a researcher who mapped all this and found that YouTube does everything in their power to actually push people towards mainstream media.

01:42:34.000 That's a problem.

01:42:35.000 Well, I'm actually just working on that part of my book right now, looking at the... Because there was a concern among progressive people that YouTube is radicalizing people by giving them increasingly fringe, alt-right content.

01:42:48.000 Not true.

01:42:48.000 Right, it's the opposite.

01:42:49.000 Right.

01:42:50.000 Is that they're trying to send them more normie stuff.

01:42:53.000 But there's a benefit to that.

01:42:54.000 Actually, substantially more left-wing as well.

01:42:56.000 It's two to one.

01:42:57.000 So there's actually a chart that maps this, and you have to be careful because it is 2 to 1 that you are more likely to be recommended left-wing content, but it's because many mainstream celebrities and comedians are making anti-Trump jokes.

01:43:12.000 So the perspective you will get from them will be anti-Trump, which aligns with the left, but it is not left-partisan content.

01:43:18.000 So in reality, it's actually...

01:43:20.000 If you get rid of the late-night comedy hosts who all that generic trash, you know, current-year comedy, ugh, it's awful, then you get a decent lean towards YouTube promoting left-wing content relative to right-wing content, but it is decently balanced, but the rabbit hole, that's the point, it leans left, but the reality is there's not a very big rabbit hole on YouTube at all.

01:43:44.000 This is, it's just, you know where the rabbit hole really is?

01:43:47.000 It's Facebook.

01:43:48.000 Because Facebook allows you to directly share the content.

01:43:51.000 So what happens is, you go on Facebook, and this is the bigger problem I see with these big tech companies, it's the algorithmic feeds.

01:43:57.000 Where you essentially have accidental worldviews being built.

01:44:01.000 So, someone will make a video, you know, police brutality.

01:44:05.000 And they'll post it on Facebook.

01:44:06.000 Someone will see it.

01:44:07.000 They get angry.

01:44:08.000 Anger is the most likely to trigger a share.

01:44:11.000 It's the emotion that triggers sharing the most.

01:44:13.000 So they share it.

01:44:14.000 Then Facebook says they like these words.

01:44:17.000 And it keeps feedback looping similar content into them.

01:44:21.000 And they keep sharing it.

01:44:22.000 And so you get this mass spread of insane police brutality.

01:44:26.000 Where it actually happened where one of the top websites in the world at one point literally only wrote about police brutality.

01:44:32.000 It was like a website dedicated to police brutality and it cracked the top 500 websites in the world because Facebook was just pumping out like crazy And that's a bigger rabbit hole.

01:44:43.000 If you only ever see police brutality, then you're gonna assume all the cops are like evil demons hunting people down and killing them, when in reality it was, we have what, 300 million, 370 million interactions with cops, and a percentage of them go bad, and you'll be able to inundate someone's feeds endlessly with this kind of content, and Facebook was doing that.

01:45:03.000 I think they changed it a little bit, but what's worrying to me is when you see the actual rabbit hole on YouTube.

01:45:08.000 I don't know if you've ever seen this.

01:45:09.000 Maybe I'll show you after.

01:45:11.000 It's a video of Hitler, and he's doing Tai Chi with the Incredible Hulk, while some people from India are singing a nursery rhyme into what sounds like, you know, some trashy dollar store headphones that they could only muster up as a microphone somehow.

01:45:27.000 It's nightmarishly creepy.

01:45:29.000 But what happened was, parents were putting babies in their cribs or beds and giving them a tablet, and then pressing play on nursery rhymes.

01:45:37.000 And the algorithm was just grabbing keywords.

01:45:39.000 So within an hour or two, it was nightmarish, weird... It's actually really great art, if you were to ask me.

01:45:46.000 Like, if it was made for an art installation, I'd be like, ah, incredible!

01:45:48.000 Hitler dancing in a bikini with a woman's body with the Incredible Hulk while someone sings nursery rhymes.

01:45:54.000 I wonder what it means.

01:45:55.000 But when you show it to babies, and it's the only thing they see, it's going to start twisting their brains.

01:46:00.000 All right, fine, you got me.

01:46:01.000 Babies should not watch videos of Hitler dancing in a bikini.

01:46:09.000 Twist my arm.

01:46:11.000 I'm not saying all of this to be pro-regulation.

01:46:13.000 I'm just saying that the company had to make changes because that was actually happening.

01:46:17.000 But here's the main point I've mentioned.

01:46:20.000 The problem with Facebook is, If I showed you a video of the Incredible Hulk, the Joker, and Hitler dancing together, you'd be like, that's insane.

01:46:29.000 Why is that nursery rhyme video being shown to kids?

01:46:32.000 You know it's crazy.

01:46:33.000 The baby doesn't.

01:46:34.000 What if we did the exact same algorithmic manipulation, but instead of the Incredible Hulk, Hitler, and the Joker, I said Donald Trump, racism, and neo-Nazis.

01:46:45.000 And the only thing you ever saw was a nightmarish amalgamation of things that just didn't really exist.

01:46:52.000 So we've actually seen this in news outlets.

01:46:54.000 There was one we talked about in the show where it was like they were dragging Melania Trump and they stuffed every possible keyword into the article because they were hoping that those keywords would get it shared more on like Google or something.

01:47:06.000 That's the danger I see with big tech companies, having algorithms that choose certain words and weighs them and then it results in people getting these specific narratives.

01:47:15.000 I think one of the reasons we see the rise of the radical left in this way is because Facebook's algorithm favors content that has more keywords in it.

01:47:23.000 So why is it that police brutality did so well?

01:47:26.000 Anger triggered emotions.

01:47:27.000 But they started mixing in the words racism and police brutality and it got even more shares because now it had double the keywords.

01:47:33.000 Same thing was true for adding sexism and now you'll see articles from Vice saying like Trans women of color fighting against police brutality is the epitome of Black Lives Matter in Trump's America Yeah, yeah, and it's like we just jammed everything in there But then people read that and they adopt this ideology that seemingly has no goal and makes no sense Well, that's actually a good thing to hear, because we can fix that problem.

01:47:58.000 You can change what, just like it used to be, Upworthy-style headlines is what drove clickbait stuff, and then there were tweaks to algorithms, and now all that went away because of the crash of that kind of content.

01:48:14.000 Well, that's my rant on algorithms, but how about we read some Super Chats?

01:48:16.000 Because, you know, we went a little over because I started ranting about algorithms.

01:48:20.000 Zach Kessel says, if Facebook is so great, why was Anomaly banned from livestreaming for over a month, or the Hodge twins being told their page was going to be shut down?

01:48:28.000 Well, I don't think Facebook's all that great.

01:48:30.000 So actually, my buddy Adam on this show said that he decided he was going to vote for Trump, and he explained why, and he wasn't like this hardcore liberal or anything, but he was looking at what Trump was doing and actually liked it.

01:48:42.000 We post the clips, you know, on YouTube and stuff, but the Hodge twins, and I think maybe Terrence K. Williams, black conservatives, they posted the clip from the show on their Facebook page and it got 4 million views.

01:48:55.000 And then one day it was gone.

01:48:57.000 It was gone from everywhere.

01:48:58.000 People at Facebook just erased it.

01:49:00.000 It broke no rules.

01:49:02.000 It was not objectionable.

01:49:03.000 It was just the dude sitting in the chair where you are expressing his opinion about voting for Trump.

01:49:07.000 And that was it.

01:49:08.000 It was gone.

01:49:09.000 Bad.

01:49:10.000 People should speak up.

01:49:11.000 Stop them from doing that.

01:49:12.000 Criticize them when they do.

01:49:13.000 I do all the time.

01:49:14.000 But they don't change it.

01:49:17.000 That's not true.

01:49:18.000 They undo some bad decisions they made.

01:49:20.000 Ford Fisher is someone I like who got banned from Facebook this weekend.

01:49:24.000 He had no idea why.

01:49:25.000 They said it was an accident.

01:49:26.000 We're sorry.

01:49:27.000 They restored his page.

01:49:28.000 I don't know what else you want him to do.

01:49:30.000 So, I don't know.

01:49:32.000 That's why I've leaned towards some kind of clarification on Section 230, like reform in terms of what people are allowed to post and how it's moderated.

01:49:43.000 But why is it that it tends to be one political faction fighting an uphill battle to make sure they get heard, while the left does face censorship, but it's disproportionate?

01:49:54.000 You know, it's typically like anti-war lefties who are getting the censorship, whereas the orthodox pro-establishment leftists can literally organize violence on Twitter.

01:50:04.000 Like, this is the crazy thing.

01:50:05.000 I sat down in front of Jack Dorsey and said, hey look, here's an example of them organizing violence.

01:50:10.000 And they were like, oh!

01:50:11.000 About that.

01:50:12.000 And to this day, all of these accounts, they still do it.

01:50:14.000 Well, that's why I say Jack Dorsey is the most, or Twitter is the most obvious bias.

01:50:17.000 Yes, that's a good point.

01:50:18.000 I do think, Jack, yes, I think Twitter, in a more deliberate way, does have political bias and is actually a little bit more obvious and deliberate about that, that they're just going to fact-check Trump just to, they're gonna poke right in the face until they get the whole social media paradigm regulated out of existence.

01:50:37.000 I don't know why they want to do that, but maybe it's because they know conservatives are thriving.

01:50:42.000 Well, yeah, I mean that actually that could be it could be I mean if you want to get really conspiratorial with it a trick to get more concerns you already have a lot of them on board with abolishing 230 which then screws over Facebook and YouTube's ability to promote alternative conservative content you go back to the media gatekeepers and and that wouldn't be a good thing.

01:51:04.000 The New York Times wrote this.

01:51:05.000 Ben Shapiro gets, like, I think around double what NBC, ABC, CBS, The New York Times, and The Washington Post get combined.

01:51:12.000 Yep.

01:51:12.000 That's crazy.

01:51:13.000 And I wish everyone who—go ahead, complain about censorship on these platforms, but please keep that in mind.

01:51:19.000 So I'll point this out, so right now, my channels get around 50% of the viewership of CNN.

01:51:25.000 And that's pretty significant.

01:51:27.000 That's a lot.

01:51:28.000 It is.

01:51:28.000 Yeah, it's 100 million views in the past month.

01:51:30.000 All combined, it's like 110.

01:51:32.000 So I'm doing really, really well, but I am, you know, people jokingly refer to me as like a milquetoast fence-sitter, liberal, blah, kind of boring, doesn't even swear.

01:51:40.000 So that means that there are other channels that might just be conservative that will never get to that point, and what's happening is that YouTube is picking the winners and losers, which is going to shape our culture for, you know, which is going to shape our culture in general.

01:51:51.000 I mean, there has to be some, right, to some degree, but not, they don't curate, again, to the degree that the Washington Post, the New York Times, or even cable news does at all.

01:52:01.000 Yeah, right.

01:52:02.000 It's true.

01:52:02.000 Absolutely.

01:52:03.000 All right, let's see here.

01:52:04.000 We got Sam Beasley says, prediction, the red mirage occurs.

01:52:08.000 Trump wins on election night, but votes pour in for Biden afterwards.

01:52:11.000 Democrats celebrate, then voter turnout passes 100% nationwide, and their ace in the hole turns into a bullet in the foot.

01:52:17.000 I actually think that's a possibility, but not necessarily in that sense, just because it would be election night chaos.

01:52:23.000 Both sides would accuse each other of cheating if that were to happen, so I don't think it's outside the realm of possibilities.

01:52:30.000 Also, do you want to mention your social before we read some more Super Chats?

01:52:33.000 Oh yeah, you can follow me on Twitter, just my name, at Robbie Suave, R-O-B-B-Y, S-O-A-V-E.

01:52:38.000 And you want to mention your book real quick?

01:52:40.000 Yes, Panic Attack, young radicals in the age of Trump, about the increasing illiberalism on college campuses, the kind of activist culture that has now spread from the campus to everywhere else.

01:52:51.000 So when did you write this?

01:52:53.000 Uh, so this came out last year, uh, in June.

01:52:57.000 So I wrote it during the first couple Trump years, essentially.

01:53:01.000 So it's basically like, if you want to understand why all of these weirdos are in government and, you know, read this book.

01:53:07.000 All right, cool.

01:53:08.000 Let's read some more Super Chats.

01:53:10.000 Daniel Ashley says body cams on more than 30% of all Proud Boys participants will be their best defense.

01:53:16.000 I mean, they should all wear body cams.

01:53:18.000 And my advice would be, you know, just be defensive.

01:53:22.000 And what I mean by that is, if they're gonna go out to Portland, don't swing at somebody.

01:53:27.000 Just keep blocking.

01:53:28.000 And I know people don't want to hear it, but I'm talking about tactics and optics.

01:53:33.000 And if you have a group of guys who are waving American flags, just covering their faces and getting hit over and over again, not even trying to fight back, the press is going to have nothing to go off of, except that Antifa was beating people who were just trying to protect themselves.

01:53:47.000 But I don't think that's going to happen.

01:53:48.000 I think you're going to get some people swinging fists and bringing clubs and paintball guns.

01:53:52.000 And those guys who are bringing out paintball guns, man, that's the stupidest thing.

01:53:56.000 Frosty says, I'll be legitimately shocked if we don't see BLM and Antifa voter intimidation outside in-person voting centers.

01:54:02.000 Should make for some great content at the very least.

01:54:05.000 I think we're gonna see Trump supporters doing the same thing.

01:54:08.000 Yeah.

01:54:08.000 Yeah, it's gonna be everybody.

01:54:11.000 I don't remember.

01:54:11.000 that plays out. Well, but they, and you've got to be careful with voter intimidation. I actually

01:54:14.000 think it's fine and probably, there's rules to prevent you from even like wearing a t-shirt

01:54:20.000 to the polling place that I think actually that should be protected under the First Amendment.

01:54:23.000 Don't you remember when Bill Clinton like showed up to a polling place in 2016 and was like

01:54:28.000 campaigning? I don't remember that. Yeah, didn't he do that?

01:54:30.000 I don't remember. Something like that.

01:54:31.000 I don't know. I looked that up. Let me Google it. Yeah.

01:54:33.000 So you think people should be allowed to wear whatever?

01:54:35.000 I think sometimes that is labeled voter intimidation.

01:54:38.000 I'm like, right, right, right.

01:54:39.000 No, but I think we're going to see left wing and right wing groups and they're going to be outside and they're going to be invariably somewhere.

01:54:39.000 Yeah.

01:54:45.000 It's a big country.

01:54:46.000 Yep.

01:54:47.000 Andrew Knapp says, just drove from Charlotte to West Palm Beach, Florida for a driving trip.

01:54:51.000 I saw exactly one Biden bumper sticker slash placard on the whole trip, but gave up counting Trump 2020 flags.

01:54:58.000 Yeah, man, that's crazy.

01:55:01.000 Voltage says, Hey Tim, been watching you for the past couple months.

01:55:03.000 First time super chat.

01:55:04.000 Really love watching every day.

01:55:06.000 Tony Hawk 2020.

01:55:08.000 Spin the UFO.

01:55:09.000 All right, here, this is going to be your job.

01:55:10.000 This is a air duster.

01:55:12.000 Okay.

01:55:12.000 Just blow on the side of that UFO and you'll get it to spin.

01:55:15.000 With what?

01:55:16.000 Just hold it down and it'll start.

01:55:19.000 And that's how you make the UFO spin.

01:55:22.000 We usually practice this before we start.

01:55:24.000 Yeah, we gotta teach people how to do the UFO spin.

01:55:27.000 And there you go.

01:55:28.000 We've made it spin.

01:55:29.000 See, I actually got that thing to clean my keyboard, but then I posted an Instagram video where I'm like, look, it's spinning.

01:55:36.000 Don't bring this on Zoom class.

01:55:37.000 Child services will show up.

01:55:39.000 It looks like a gun.

01:55:41.000 Oh gosh, there goes the stream.

01:55:44.000 Stephen McIntyre says, What if the disaffected liberals coming to the new right start to organize more protests and boycott tactics that the far left uses, then pressuring corporations to stop the woke nonsense?

01:55:56.000 Love your show and what you do.

01:55:57.000 I mean, I think people need to organize.

01:56:01.000 Would you agree with that in that sense?

01:56:02.000 Instead of regulating these businesses, you just organize Certainly, protest boycotts are a preferable thing to do than regulation.

01:56:13.000 I think the left is so boycott-obsessed that probably just culturally, I invariably go, ugh, a boycott.

01:56:21.000 Probably unjustifiably.

01:56:22.000 Probably there are times where it would work or be good.

01:56:24.000 Like Mulan.

01:56:25.000 Right, we didn't actually talk about this, but I... So I'm hesitant to endorse boycotts, but I think probably it's pretty justified for people to just say, I'm not going to see Mulan after the terrible... Yeah, we didn't make it.

01:56:38.000 Yeah, what Disney... Disney's crediting of the proper... Disney, they thanked them, right?

01:56:45.000 So Disney thanked the people who basically run the concentration camps?

01:56:48.000 Yeah.

01:56:49.000 Very bad.

01:56:50.000 Bad luck.

01:56:50.000 Good work, Disney!

01:56:51.000 Disney who doesn't want to do business in Georgia.

01:56:53.000 Right.

01:56:54.000 That's what I said.

01:56:54.000 Because of that.

01:56:55.000 The hypocrisy.

01:56:56.000 Oh my gosh.

01:56:56.000 The hypocrisy on the sort of woke capital is, to me, actually more irritating than the actual woke is.

01:57:03.000 Absolutely.

01:57:04.000 Absolutely.

01:57:05.000 All right, let's see.

01:57:07.000 Redneck Logic says, Antifa isn't smart enough to be an organization, that's why.

01:57:11.000 Don't underestimate your enemies, man.

01:57:14.000 Jacob says, who invited Jason Bourne onto the Timcast?

01:57:17.000 Great job regardless.

01:57:19.000 We did.

01:57:20.000 Not quite Jason Bourne.

01:57:20.000 Are you Jason Bourne?

01:57:21.000 I've never gotten that one before.

01:57:22.000 That's funny.

01:57:23.000 Matt Damon, I like it.

01:57:24.000 Vsidious said, did you see the new Madden game?

01:57:27.000 Decided to add Colin Kaepernick.

01:57:28.000 It already had a .2 user score on Metacritic.

01:57:32.000 The lowest of all time.

01:57:33.000 Looks like go broke then try to go woke.

01:57:35.000 That's what I'm saying.

01:57:36.000 You've heard get woke, go broke?

01:57:38.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:57:38.000 I think a lot of it is often get broke, go woke.

01:57:41.000 Yeah.

01:57:41.000 These companies are failing and they're desperate and so they throw a Hail Mary.

01:57:45.000 We'll try the wokeness and maybe, you know, people will buy our garbage product.

01:57:50.000 And it comes across as insincere, it's not heartfelt.

01:57:52.000 Right.

01:57:52.000 And people can tell it's cynical and they don't... But then it becomes tribal.

01:57:57.000 Yeah.

01:57:57.000 And like... Right, right, right, right, right.

01:57:59.000 All the conservatives are like, we're gonna burn Gillette!

01:58:01.000 And they throw all the Gillette in the flaming dumpster.

01:58:03.000 And then the left is like, well, we're gonna go buy Gillette!

01:58:05.000 And then Gillette's like, we're getting press!

01:58:06.000 This is great!

01:58:07.000 I love it!

01:58:08.000 It's great.

01:58:09.000 Let's see, Exile of Society says, if a program that mimicked the pitch of anti-racism critical race theory but called counter-racism went into these agencies, corporations, and institutes and changed the mindset and undo what's been done by critical race theory, would it work?

01:58:27.000 Maybe, I don't know.

01:58:28.000 I think regular people understand why this is all bad, you know what I mean?

01:58:31.000 And a lot of these people are sitting, you know, I don't know.

01:58:34.000 I think a lot of people sit in these, like, diversity trainings and just kind of blindly absorb it, but a lot of people probably listen to it and they're like, this is nuts.

01:58:40.000 Oh, I think most people know, yeah, this is...

01:58:42.000 Oh, they think it's unnecessary.

01:58:43.000 Just like a fire drill or something.

01:58:45.000 It's just something you have to do.

01:58:46.000 Or like an OSHA, like, watch out for sharp corners in this office.

01:58:49.000 You know what I mean?

01:58:50.000 It's required and people know it's kind of silly.

01:58:52.000 Right.

01:58:52.000 Harassment training.

01:58:54.000 That must be really the approach that most people, I swear, who sit through it go, I really didn't need this, but I know it's just legally mandated.

01:59:01.000 Sunny Days says, my opinion.

01:59:03.000 You are minimizing the level of threat our constitution is experiencing.

01:59:07.000 I'm a Portland resident.

01:59:08.000 Our city has reached demoralization.

01:59:10.000 We are within the destabilization phase.

01:59:13.000 When do you think normal working people stand up and defend their way of life?

01:59:18.000 That's a scary, scary thought.

01:59:20.000 See, this is another thing we disagree on.

01:59:22.000 We talked about a bit earlier, before the show, that I'm more bullish on civil war and you're more bearish.

01:59:27.000 So, you know, I see what, you know, like, Sunny Days is seeing that people in Portland,

01:59:32.000 I mean, I can only assume that because I don't live there, but after months of rioting and violence,

01:59:38.000 people just feel like nothing's going to be done about anything.

01:59:40.000 Yeah, it's horrible.

01:59:42.000 I actually think there's a greater likelihood that Trump wins in a massive landslide

01:59:48.000 than we see any kind of like civil war.

01:59:50.000 Yeah.

01:59:51.000 Like, if people really are this angry with stuff, they're gonna go vote.

01:59:54.000 But then there's the issue of mail-in voting and the potential that, you know, Trump isn't actually doing that well.

02:00:00.000 But do you really think if people are—and I am also angry about this stuff.

02:00:04.000 I hate what I'm seeing in the streets of many cities.

02:00:06.000 I live in D.C.

02:00:07.000 It's been not, like, the Right, exactly.

02:00:09.000 It's been pretty bad in a lot of places.

02:00:10.000 And then certain journalists are like, oh, everything's fine.

02:00:13.000 Look, this park hasn't burned down.

02:00:15.000 You could go to Syria.

02:00:16.000 You could go to Afghanistan.

02:00:19.000 This village is fine.

02:00:20.000 This village is fine.

02:00:21.000 He doesn't tell you that.

02:00:22.000 It's the stupidest thing.

02:00:23.000 Right.

02:00:24.000 Just real quick, during the Syrian civil war, the Syrian tourism agency was still advertising,

02:00:29.000 come to Damascus and party, there's sarin gas over there, but don't worry about it.

02:00:32.000 That's it, I don't know that if you want to vote against the rioting and the protest and

02:00:38.000 what you're seeing, is that...

02:00:39.000 Deputized Oregon State.

02:00:40.000 The Feds have deputized Oregon State Police so that the FBI is now prosecuting the rioters.

02:00:42.000 It's like not it doesn't latch onto the political that closely enough because Trump actually hasn't done anything

02:00:49.000 about it It's a current watch. He's done something deputized or he's

02:00:53.000 treated law and order another time The feds have deputized Oregon State Police so that the FBI

02:00:57.000 is now prosecuting the writers I don't think that's the smartest thing I've ever heard.

02:01:01.000 Maybe that's a very good idea In reference to the riots.

02:01:03.000 I don't think there's enough perception that Trump literally cares enough.

02:01:06.000 He cares enough to tweet about it, but to do anything about it.

02:01:08.000 That I agree with.

02:01:09.000 And also, it's hard, to some extent, it would not be hard to tar a very far-left Democrat, many of the people he ran against, but Biden himself has been historically moderate or even conservative in some ways on policing issues.

02:01:22.000 So to me, that's why I think a different political candidate on both sides Could easily turn this the way like Nixon did into a very vote for me for law and order.

02:01:33.000 Yeah.

02:01:33.000 I don't think that quite fits the Trump-Biden dynamic.

02:01:36.000 I think you're right in terms of perception.

02:01:38.000 Yeah.

02:01:38.000 I think in terms of practicality though, Joe Biden has been entertaining far left policy ideas, but not nearly as far left as the far left wants.

02:01:48.000 So when he says something like a moratorium on deportations, that is a huge departure from where the Obama administration was.

02:01:53.000 They called the guy the deporter-in-chief.

02:01:54.000 Right.

02:01:55.000 So for Joe Biden to come out and say he's negotiated a pact with Bernie, where they are going to push for, you know, a compromise on many of these things, Joe Biden's definitely negotiating with more far left.

02:02:07.000 Probably on the economic stuff.

02:02:08.000 I don't know so much about the policing stuff.

02:02:12.000 Like, I don't think, like, again, Biden has historically wanted to throw more money at the police.

02:02:17.000 Absolutely.

02:02:18.000 The crime bill.

02:02:19.000 And his vice president is actually a prosecutor!

02:02:21.000 Right.

02:02:21.000 I think the deputizing of Oregon State Police was brilliant.

02:02:24.000 Because now the feds don't have to go in.

02:02:25.000 political wins but the political wins actually moved a little bit against the

02:02:28.000 hard left i think

02:02:30.000 i think uh...

02:02:31.000 the deputizing of oregon state police was

02:02:35.000 because now the feds have to go in yeah the oregon state police were complaining that arrest

02:02:39.000 these people and then the d a would release them

02:02:42.000 so now the deputized when they rest is riders the federal attorney say nope

02:02:47.000 And they've been going door-to-door to these Antifa people, and now the Antifa people are actually panicking, like the FBI is coming and they're gonna arrest you, and they're giving you the same charges.

02:02:55.000 So, I feel like Trump's figured out a way to solve that problem.

02:02:59.000 It's kind of, you know, the past night, there was not a whole lot of unrest happening in Portland, and actually, since the deputization, it's slowly been chilling out, and I think it's because they're locking these people up.

02:03:09.000 And I think that was Trump.

02:03:10.000 That might be specific to Portland, though.

02:03:12.000 It absolutely is.

02:03:12.000 It is.

02:03:13.000 But also think about, Trump offered federal assistance to all of these jurisdictions, and he didn't violate the Constitution to force his way in.

02:03:20.000 So in my opinion, when you look at Joe Biden negotiating and saying, we're going to do these things, you look at the Democrats actually favoring the protests and some of the rioters, like the AG in Oregon specifically sued on their behalf.

02:03:32.000 Why would I assume Joe Biden's coming in and he's going to actually do anything related to law enforcement?

02:03:37.000 I think he's going to say, what do you want so that you vote for me for a second term?

02:03:41.000 Or more importantly, Kamala, because I don't know if Joe Biden will make it to a second term.

02:03:45.000 Trump, on the other hand, is going to be like, put me in and we'll send in the feds.

02:03:49.000 And we'll, you know, I don't I don't think he'll do the insurrection act.

02:03:52.000 That would be bold.

02:03:53.000 But I also I think I think it's a fair point that was brought up.

02:03:56.000 You brought it up earlier.

02:03:57.000 I think, you know, if Joe Biden won, many people might actually stop.

02:04:01.000 But my issue now is why would Antifa stop if Joe Biden won?

02:04:08.000 They've actually, you could argue that because he's compromising with them, you know, give them what they want and they'll actually stop burning things down.

02:04:15.000 But that to me is scarier.

02:04:17.000 Yeah, I mean some number of them will never stop because that's just what they do.

02:04:20.000 They're professional kook activists, fringe people.

02:04:23.000 Just like a certain number of the Proud Boys will still do things.

02:04:27.000 But some of the violence, a good portion of the violence we've seen is opportunistic crime being committed that just happens when law and order breaks down.

02:04:35.000 So with things get a little bit more normal, those people just don't do those things anymore because you can't get away with it and it doesn't occur to them.

02:04:41.000 That needs to sink in.

02:04:43.000 And I think that's just going to happen at some point.

02:04:46.000 Part of this summer is people's emotional and mental and psychological outrage over what we've all been put through in terms of the lockdown.

02:04:55.000 Definitely.

02:04:56.000 Even some of this crazy cancel culture stuff we've been talking about, like what's happened in the New York Times.

02:05:03.000 This is people who are forced to work in a virtual office.

02:05:07.000 Their frustrations that you would bury between coworkers is spilling out into the open because you're not interacting with people in a normal human way.

02:05:17.000 Yeah.

02:05:18.000 I think we under-discuss how much of the craziness we've seen this summer is because right now human beings are being put through something that is horrible and unnatural and against every instinct they have to socialize and have fun and to some degree get along with people.

02:05:33.000 Yeah, definitely.

02:05:35.000 And it's really bad and we don't talk about that effect enough.

02:05:38.000 I mean, I definitely talked about it.

02:05:39.000 I think the mainstream media didn't so much, that early on, you have this pent-up rage from a lockdown, unemployment, panic, fear, and just anger at the system.

02:05:49.000 Give them a reason, and they will go out and burn stuff down.

02:05:52.000 That's probably why we had the mass looting across the country for that week.

02:05:55.000 Everything kind of chilled out and now it's more of a, you know, pockets of far leftists popping up and, you know, I mean, when you look at, it's hard to say, when you look at places like Pittsburgh, which is not a historical protest place, but you have that big march where they went and harassed some restaurant owners.

02:06:10.000 They did this in D.C.

02:06:11.000 Yeah, right, yeah.

02:06:13.000 Then you had the Black Lives Matter people getting into a shootout with people in rural Pennsylvania.

02:06:16.000 Did you hear about that?

02:06:17.000 Yeah.

02:06:17.000 That's crazy.

02:06:19.000 So I see all of these things.

02:06:22.000 But crime just increases too, like air conditioning decreases crime.

02:06:29.000 When people are not frustrated and angry, they do less violent stuff.

02:06:32.000 Yeah, I know.

02:06:34.000 That's why winter is always really boring.

02:06:35.000 Nobody wants to go out in the snow.

02:06:37.000 Summer always gets crazy.

02:06:38.000 So we're seeing that effect to a degree.

02:06:40.000 Interestingly, with the election happening over winter, there may be weird dry periods of just like You know, what I would compare as two dogs on the other side of a fence screaming, which is basically people on the internet saying, ooh.

02:06:50.000 Yeah.

02:06:51.000 And next year when it warms up, though, I think it's going to be, I think it'll just be, it'll be nuts.

02:06:55.000 I don't know what we're going to see, man.

02:06:57.000 I really don't.

02:06:58.000 But I think the potential for violence is worse than it's ever been.

02:07:00.000 Especially, look, we've seen a Trump supporter killed.

02:07:03.000 Another guy tried, they say he tried to kill him.

02:07:06.000 I tried to be careful.

02:07:07.000 He ran him over.

02:07:07.000 He rammed into him with a truck and the guy went flying in the air, hit his head with, got serious injuries.

02:07:12.000 Then you had the Kenosha stuff, which I think was self-defense.

02:07:14.000 A lot of people are arguing that.

02:07:15.000 The left doesn't see it that way.

02:07:16.000 I think the potential for violence is just... I don't know, man.

02:07:20.000 It's scary.

02:07:21.000 All right, let's see.

02:07:22.000 We got Neon Lights.

02:07:23.000 He says, Hey Tim, I've been sticking to your channels for news in 2016, and I've so far found you to be one of the most reliable not to twist things out of proportion.

02:07:31.000 Thanks for being amazing for the past four years for me.

02:07:33.000 Welcome to the Trump train, friend.

02:07:35.000 It's an interesting comment, especially considering I'm more bullish on civil war and you're more bearish.

02:07:40.000 So, you know, this individual seems to trust me.

02:07:43.000 I wonder which one of us is going to be right.

02:07:44.000 We'll see.

02:07:45.000 Yeah, we'll see how it plays out.

02:07:46.000 My political predictions have been very good this year.

02:07:49.000 Not my pandemic predictions.

02:07:50.000 I thought people would not live with this lockdown madness and would rebel against it.

02:07:54.000 That was wrong.

02:07:55.000 But I said from the start, I said it will be Biden.

02:07:57.000 I said Biden or maybe Bernie.

02:07:59.000 I don't know.

02:07:59.000 I'm sorry, for the primary.

02:08:02.000 I also think he'll win the general.

02:08:03.000 Biden will?

02:08:04.000 Yeah, since the pandemic.

02:08:06.000 If you had asked me in January, I would have said Trump was going to be re-elected.

02:08:09.000 I still don't know, man.

02:08:10.000 I'm just reading the polls.

02:08:11.000 The polls are not inaccurate.

02:08:13.000 Pundits' interpretations of the polls are inaccurate.

02:08:16.000 So that's a fair point to an extent.

02:08:19.000 Politico actually wrote an article saying no pollster has figured out how to actually track non-college educated whites who voted for Trump.

02:08:25.000 So they're missing from the polls.

02:08:27.000 But what a lot of people don't understand about the polls being wrong is that most of them were within the margin of error.

02:08:32.000 Right.

02:08:32.000 And that the predictions about what was going to happen were completely wrong.

02:08:36.000 Well, and then you see like it says, OK, Trump right now, Nate Silver will say Biden has a 70 percent chance of winning.

02:08:43.000 Well, that means if you had the election 10 times, three times Trump would win.

02:08:46.000 People look at that like, oh, that means Biden's going to win.

02:08:48.000 It's impossible for Trump.

02:08:48.000 Exactly.

02:08:49.000 And then they're like, how could you have lied to me when when Trump wins?

02:08:52.000 But that's you're not thinking about how statistics work.

02:08:55.000 I don't think Biden's going to handle a debate.

02:08:59.000 He's going to do terribly in the debates.

02:09:01.000 We know that.

02:09:01.000 We saw him debate already.

02:09:04.000 But this matters.

02:09:05.000 Biden's performance in the debates was easily the worst of any of the candidates up there, and he still won the Democratic primary nomination handily.

02:09:13.000 What the heck?

02:09:14.000 That's so creepy, dude.

02:09:16.000 Oh, he's gonna come.

02:09:18.000 Bucko's gonna jump on the table.

02:09:18.000 Oh, the cat's coming.

02:09:19.000 Yeah, because he knows we're over.

02:09:21.000 It's true.

02:09:21.000 He's gonna start yelling at us.

02:09:22.000 Our kitty clock.

02:09:23.000 We got a couple.

02:09:24.000 We'll read a couple more Super Chats.

02:09:25.000 There he is.

02:09:26.000 Yep, there he's screaming.

02:09:27.000 What are you doing?

02:09:28.000 There's a cat on the table.

02:09:29.000 The BLM was Russian propaganda, page 22 Mueller report, and it was that successful that the

02:09:34.000 American cultural Marxists took over.

02:09:47.000 Read the Quillette article, The Challenge of Marxism.

02:09:50.000 It's informative but scary.

02:09:52.000 We have a serious fight before us to maintain freedom, the American way.

02:09:55.000 Very cool.

02:09:56.000 Mark G says, Tim, the prison island has been tried many times.

02:09:59.000 Look what it spawned, an authoritarian country called Australia.

02:10:03.000 Yikes.

02:10:05.000 Dave Maggiacomo.

02:10:06.000 I'm an ex-Democrat based on your great journalism.

02:10:10.000 Keep up the great work, Tim.

02:10:11.000 The silent majority is becoming more prevalent.

02:10:13.000 However, do you believe that the uninformed majority and negative partisanship could become a factor in the election?

02:10:19.000 Absolutely.

02:10:20.000 Yeah, negative partisanship.

02:10:21.000 That's what the Democrats are banking on entirely right now.

02:10:24.000 They don't care about Biden.

02:10:25.000 They want people to go and vote against Trump. 100%.

02:10:29.000 I don't think so.

02:10:30.000 Funny or Die?

02:10:30.000 says the right did raise red flags decades ago about public schools and

02:10:34.000 colleges. They were mocked for it. It's time to acknowledge that they were right.

02:10:37.000 You know what's really funny? I'll mention this too. There was a... have you ever seen

02:10:41.000 Prop 8 the musical? I don't think so. From 2009. It was from Funny or Die and it's a

02:10:45.000 bunch of leftist celebrities singing like in favor of gay marriage and

02:10:50.000 And one of the things that the fake right-wing group says is that you have to oppose, you know, gay marriage, otherwise they'll teach kids about sodomy in school.

02:10:58.000 And then the left-wing group says, but that's a lie!

02:11:01.000 And they say, so what?

02:11:02.000 It works, so we don't care.

02:11:03.000 And I'm like...

02:11:05.000 That's actually funny, because if you Google search that, they literally did.

02:11:08.000 And like, with only a few years, they were teaching kids about... In sex education, about sodomy.

02:11:14.000 Like, they were.

02:11:15.000 I don't know why it was like... Anyway, the point is, the mockery of the right was quite literally... Yes, that literally happened.

02:11:25.000 Zach Kessel says, if Facebook is so great... Oh, I read that one already, alright.

02:11:28.000 Alright, let's just jump down and then I think we'll do a couple more.

02:11:32.000 Jimmy Sommer says, hey Tim, have you seen the first episode of Watchmen HBO?

02:11:36.000 The cops have to hide their identities and they're all wearing masks.

02:11:38.000 It's eerily similar to what's starting to happen in the U.S.

02:11:41.000 now.

02:11:41.000 It was a great show.

02:11:42.000 Did you like the show?

02:11:44.000 I thought it was so, so good.

02:11:46.000 Really?

02:11:46.000 Yeah, I can't recommend it enough.

02:11:48.000 I didn't watch it.

02:11:48.000 It was really, really good.

02:11:50.000 It doesn't seem like it has anything to do with Watchmen.

02:11:51.000 No, it's subtle.

02:11:53.000 It takes its time to really reveal the connection to the original comics.

02:11:58.000 It's good.

02:11:58.000 I recommend it.

02:12:00.000 I tried watching the first episode and I was like, I don't know.

02:12:03.000 The guy who plays Ozymandias is so good.

02:12:06.000 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:12:06.000 What's his name?

02:12:07.000 He's the voice of Scar from the original.

02:12:09.000 Yeah, he's a cool dude.

02:12:10.000 He's a cool dude.

02:12:10.000 It just didn't seem like when I watched the first episode and I was just like, I don't know what this is.

02:12:14.000 The first episode is not watchable at all.

02:12:15.000 You gotta get three in and then it's clear.

02:12:17.000 It's rough.

02:12:18.000 They cancelled it though, didn't they?

02:12:19.000 They didn't want to work on it anymore.

02:12:20.000 Well, they just finished the season and decided not to have another one.

02:12:23.000 It really stands on its own.

02:12:24.000 Gareth Green says, Robby doesn't understand how bad social media is.

02:12:28.000 But Pool Sunbay doesn't understand the power of the free market.

02:12:31.000 If they ban all dissenters, they will create unstoppable demand for competition.

02:12:35.000 Interesting.

02:12:35.000 And if you haven't already, smash that like button to help support the channel, but we're getting- we'll do one more Super Chat.

02:12:41.000 I don't know about Trump winning.

02:12:44.000 I'm worried.

02:12:44.000 I just really doubt that many people are waking up.

02:12:47.000 It's all happening late.

02:12:48.000 The media is so monolithic and reps always get complacent.

02:12:51.000 Look at articles on lack of campaign funds.

02:12:54.000 I saw that.

02:12:54.000 Apparently now they're saying that Trump is going broke.

02:12:56.000 I don't know if that's true though.

02:12:58.000 It doesn't matter, though.

02:13:00.000 Hillary Clinton wildly outspent Trump, and it didn't matter.

02:13:03.000 I don't think the spending matters all that much.

02:13:08.000 I've become very skeptical of, like, you can spend your way to some political outcome.

02:13:13.000 And people tend to freak out over, ooh, campaigns have too much money or too much money in politics.

02:13:17.000 Maybe it's a problem.

02:13:18.000 It seems impossible to prevent.

02:13:19.000 It seems like the more you try to prevent it, the more you just, like, entrench the class of politicos who better understand how to circumvent these rules.

02:13:27.000 Yeah.

02:13:27.000 Um, and also, you should just let people donate, because it doesn't necessarily always work.

02:13:31.000 I'll tell you this, man.

02:13:31.000 I'm getting that sweet, sweet Biden and Trump bucks.

02:13:34.000 Yeah.

02:13:34.000 The more they spend on these campaign ads, it's ridiculous.

02:13:37.000 This is gonna be probably one of the biggest spending seasons, I guess.

02:13:40.000 And so, all, like, YouTubers are probably, like, freaking out, because CPMs are starting.

02:13:45.000 Oh, because you sell ads?

02:13:46.000 Yeah, well, YouTube just does it automatically, basically.

02:13:48.000 Cool.

02:13:48.000 So it's like, all of a sudden you're making more money, you're like, wow, I have no idea why, and then people are like, oh, it's because there's a Biden ad on your video.

02:13:53.000 I'm like, ah, it must have been expensive.

02:13:55.000 Yeah.

02:13:55.000 Anyway, we're a little bit over, so we're going to wrap it up there.

02:13:57.000 Do you want to just mention your Twitter account real quick?

02:14:00.000 Yep, you can follow me at RobbySoave, and read my work at Reason.com, which is Reason Magazine.

02:14:07.000 And, of course, you can follow me on Twitter, Instagram, and Parler at TimCast.

02:14:11.000 And check out my other channels, youtube.com slash TimCastNews and slash TimCast.

02:14:15.000 And, of course, you can follow at Sour Patch Lids, the producer.

02:14:18.000 That's Sour Patch L-Y-D-S.

02:14:20.000 We do the show Monday through Friday live at 8 p.m.

02:14:22.000 There's a cat sitting on the table in front of me right now because he's mad because we've been spending too much time talking.

02:14:27.000 But yeah, subscribe, hit the like button, hit the notification bell, and we will see you all tomorrow where Will Chamberlain is going to be joining us.

02:14:34.000 And he's got very different opinions.

02:14:36.000 You're going to get the exact opposite perspective.

02:14:38.000 It's funny.

02:14:40.000 Pro-Trump, you know, social media is a civil right.

02:14:43.000 But thanks for hanging out.

Timcast IRL - Tim Pool - September 08, 2020

Timcast IRL - Proud Boys Trend After Viral Video Claims They Attacked BLM, Robby Soave Guests

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