Timcast IRL - Tim Pool - Timcast IRL - Southwest LOSING Vax Mandate Battle, Cancels Unpaid Leave Plan w-Michael Shellenberger

00:00:00.000 The freedom flu is apparently working.

00:00:17.000 As much as the establishment tried to deny its existence, and there were some technicality to the, uh, technically the truth things to what they were saying, there was no, as my understanding, very large and organized sick outs or protests, but there were some small protests we did see.

00:00:34.000 There were many individuals taking paid time off, taking sick time, and we're seeing this in police departments as well.

00:00:40.000 Now, in Chicago, they're threatening police officers.

00:00:42.000 If you try to take time off, you're being blocked.

00:00:45.000 If you try to retire instead of getting the vaccine, they will go after your benefits.

00:00:49.000 Southwest, however, has lost one major battle, though the vaccine mandates are still there.

00:00:53.000 They are now saying they have ended the plan to put people on unpaid leave if they are pending an exemption.

00:00:59.000 Not exactly getting rid of their vaccine mandates, so a little correction in the headline we put up, but still, they're slowly backing down.

00:01:07.000 With Chicago police, This is where it gets crazy.

00:01:10.000 A judge has ordered the president of the police union to stop encouraging people to defy the mandates.

00:01:16.000 The beast is shaken.

00:01:18.000 It's getting scared.

00:01:18.000 And we got to talk about that.

00:01:20.000 We got to talk about what happens when you demonize, defund, remove the police.

00:01:24.000 Because we can take a look at the crime in San Francisco.

00:01:27.000 And we've got someone here to actually talk about how progressives are destroying cities.

00:01:31.000 We have author Michael Schellenberger.

00:01:32.000 Do you want to introduce yourself?

00:01:34.000 Oh yeah, thanks for having me.

00:01:35.000 I'm the author of Apocalypse Never, and also the new book, San Francisco, Why Progressives Ruin Cities. 0.78

00:01:43.000 Right on.

00:01:44.000 So you're the perfect person to talk about San Francisco being ruined.

00:01:48.000 Absolutely.

00:01:48.000 I just was looking at the news just now and apparently they're now offering rewards funded by private individuals to solve some of the crime cases.

00:01:58.000 It's pretty absurd.

00:01:59.000 $100,000 I'm hearing?

00:02:01.000 Yeah.

00:02:02.000 Wow.

00:02:03.000 Maybe that won't do anything.

00:02:05.000 But it's a private individual trying to do something.

00:02:08.000 Yeah, I mean, it's just we're dealing with the breakdown of civilization.

00:02:12.000 I mean, it sounds hyperbolic, but civilization requires that laws are enforced. 0.56

00:02:16.000 It requires that people, you know, that there be consequences for behaviors that are incompatible with city life.

00:02:24.000 I talk about how the current DA was proposing to basically just reimburse people whose car windows had been smashed in.

00:02:32.000 I mean, what could go wrong, right?

00:02:37.000 When you get a poop department, you should really reflect on your leadership instead of being like, we have a problem with human waste.

00:02:43.000 I have an idea.

00:02:44.000 Let's create the poop department. 1.00

00:02:45.000 Problem solved.

00:02:48.000 Maybe something else is going on.

00:02:49.000 Maybe that's a symptom of the problem.

00:02:52.000 People will come and they see the tents and they see the people, including the public defecation is very famous, and they will compare it to shanty towns in poor countries. 1.00

00:03:02.000 I've lived in Brazil, been in shanties, I know favelas, I've been in very shanty towns in poor parts of the world, India.

00:03:10.000 It's different.

00:03:10.000 San Francisco is one of the richest places in the world.

00:03:13.000 But even in the favelas, I didn't see people taking dumps on the stairs or the sidewalks.

00:03:19.000 People all lived there and it was like, Yeah.

00:03:22.000 I saw pretty bad conditions.

00:03:23.000 I saw those channels they have in the hill that go down because they don't have a sewer and it just, you know, their waste goes in there.

00:03:27.000 But they, it's all going in the same place.

00:03:29.000 The craziest thing I saw was someone's tortoise broke out of their apartment.

00:03:33.000 And I was like, yeah, they were, I gotta tell you, man, going to a Brazilian favela and seeing the conditions and being like, wow, it's bad.

00:03:40.000 And then going to San Francisco, I'm like, wow, it's worse.

00:03:42.000 So that's something.

00:03:43.000 We'll talk about all that.

00:03:45.000 We also got Luke.

00:03:46.000 Yeah, before we begin, I wanted to tell our loving viewing audience to always trust the science no matter what because, you know, they're never wrong.

00:03:54.000 You should never question it.

00:03:56.000 The scientific method is sort of like a suggestion and our carefully curated, selected, highly paid scientists who have conflict of interest and connections to big industries never lie to us.

00:04:08.000 And oh, I also have a a cloth on myself, which you could exclusively... Hold on there, Luke.

00:04:14.000 Let me look at that.

00:04:15.000 DDT, no flies on me, thanks to DDT.

00:04:18.000 Well, there are no flies on that baby, as you can clearly see.

00:04:21.000 Cigarettes were recommended by doctors.

00:04:23.000 Yes.

00:04:23.000 That nursery water you have there is still for sale today.

00:04:27.000 At Walmart.

00:04:27.000 Hold on, hold on.

00:04:28.000 What's that one?

00:04:29.000 Asbestos.

00:04:30.000 Well, my understanding is that asbestos is only bad if you're trying to remove it.

00:04:33.000 And as it ages and cracks.

00:04:36.000 Glyphosate.

00:04:36.000 I'm not super familiar with that one.

00:04:38.000 Well, there's a big lawsuit with Montana and Glycophate.

00:04:40.000 Don't eat sugar.

00:04:40.000 Sugar's bad.

00:04:41.000 Exactly.

00:04:42.000 So, yeah.

00:04:43.000 This is just a random cloth that I have on that you could also exclusively get on TheBestPoliticalShirts.com and at the same time support me being here.

00:04:49.000 So, thanks for having me.

00:04:50.000 Thanks for coming, Luke.

00:04:52.000 Hey, me and Michael were just talking before the show.

00:04:54.000 We both lived on coal in San Francisco over there by Hate Street.

00:04:59.000 So, I think I've got a little bit of a similar maybe perspective of what you were saying.

00:05:02.000 You were talking about the guy screaming outside.

00:05:03.000 It might have been the same guy.

00:05:04.000 Different year.

00:05:06.000 Very likely.

00:05:07.000 Very possible.

00:05:08.000 Old, famous Screamin' Joe!

00:05:09.000 Wildly overpriced.

00:05:10.000 I thought it was overpriced when I was there in 2016.

00:05:12.000 It was $3,000 for a one-bedroom, which was the most I'd ever paid.

00:05:17.000 Way beyond anything else.

00:05:19.000 And got offered to buy mushrooms and weed every day, walking down the street.

00:05:23.000 Unique city.

00:05:24.000 And then there's Golden Gate Park and all the people sleeping in the park, like two blocks away or three blocks away.

00:05:29.000 There's a big difference between.

00:05:31.000 Well, I'll just put it up.

00:05:33.000 I'll just we'll get into it.

00:05:34.000 Poop department.

00:05:35.000 Yeah, there we go.

00:05:36.000 Indeed.

00:05:36.000 Yeah.

00:05:37.000 So San Francisco sounds like it started beautiful and then some super progressive policies got into place.

00:05:42.000 I'm really looking forward to talking about that this evening.

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00:08:05.000 Go to timcast.com, become a member.

00:08:07.000 And right now, We have a live auction for members to bid to get two tickets to the event this Saturday and we're going to be doing an auction every day and the auction will sort of end randomly.

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00:08:47.000 And that being said, don't forget to smash the like button, subscribe to this channel, and let's jump into the first story, Southwest Airlines.

00:08:55.000 From CNBC, Southwest drops plan to put unvaccinated staff on unpaid leave starting in December.

00:09:01.000 Southwest scrapped a plan to put their unvaccinated workers with pending exemptions on unpaid leave after the December 8th deadline.

00:09:08.000 Both American and Southwest require their new hire employees to show proof of COVID-19 vaccination before their first day.

00:09:14.000 Large airlines are federal contractors and subject to a Biden administration order that requires their employees to be vaccinated or receive an exemption for medical or religious reasons.

00:09:24.000 Now, I can respect the exemptions for medical and religious reasons.

00:09:27.000 The problem is a lot of these companies are just outright denying them no matter what.

00:09:31.000 But this is a different case here because there's ... reports of Southwest executives literally going ... around the company asking people to please get the ... exemption paperwork please fill it out either for medical ... or religious purposes they want so there's been an ... effort that people are reporting that that they want ... them to get these exceptions but this is a huge ... announcement this is big I mean they're pretty much ... announcing that they're not going to be going along with ... this Tim you disagree with the disagree disagree here but ...

00:09:59.000 They're not going to fire employees or in other words put them on unpaid leave if they don't get vaccinated.

00:10:05.000 They're not going to do that.

00:10:06.000 That's a huge step to me that has been demonstrated through the Freedom Flu, through all the protests, through all the demonstrations and through all the massive disruptions that we saw a couple days ago.

00:10:16.000 The people opposing the mandates are gaining ground.

00:10:19.000 So this is a battle being won, but the war is still very much on.

00:10:22.000 Of course, 100%.

00:10:22.000 And here's what you've got to understand.

00:10:24.000 When they say new hires are still under the VAX mandate, they're basically going to appease those who currently work.

00:10:30.000 They're saying, well, it doesn't affect me anymore, so I'm good.

00:10:33.000 Yeah.

00:10:34.000 And then new employees will have to be mandated.

00:10:35.000 So what happens in 10, 20 years?

00:10:37.000 The VAX mandate stands.

00:10:39.000 We'll see how long the vax mandates are going to be implemented.

00:10:42.000 I definitely agree with you.

00:10:44.000 A lot of people think they're going to be temporary as long as COVID's going to be around.

00:10:47.000 But as me and you know, and a lot of other people know, this is a long game.

00:10:51.000 It's not going to be ending anytime soon.

00:10:53.000 It benefits too many people.

00:10:54.000 It benefits too many billionaires for it to stop.

00:10:56.000 But this is still a major victory because the workers united here came together and said, hey, we don't like this policy.

00:11:03.000 We don't want it.

00:11:04.000 Go ahead.

00:11:05.000 I mean, there were some protests.

00:11:06.000 Yeah.

00:11:07.000 But we basically just saw people disorganized being like, nah.

00:11:11.000 Exactly.

00:11:11.000 That was scarier to this company.

00:11:13.000 Southwest is like, we're gonna do this mandate.

00:11:13.000 Yeah.

00:11:15.000 Oh, Biden's making us do it.

00:11:17.000 And then a bunch of employees just called in sick.

00:11:19.000 Well, they knew- They didn't organize it.

00:11:20.000 They knew forcing this would be worse for them than not forcing it.

00:11:24.000 So this realization, that's the big story to me.

00:11:27.000 And that's why I led with it.

00:11:29.000 That's why I've been talking about it all day.

00:11:30.000 Because this is huge.

00:11:32.000 And there's going to be reverberations of this all over the place, because now people know that their voice actually matters when they come together and they speak up together.

00:11:40.000 As long as they don't back down.

00:11:41.000 Exactly.

00:11:42.000 Because I genuinely think most people, the smartest thing they could do was, oh, only new hires have to be vaccinated.

00:11:42.000 And they don't.

00:11:49.000 Because then people who already hired are just going to be like, I'm good.

00:11:52.000 Yeah.

00:11:53.000 Later down the line, that's going to have its effects.

00:11:55.000 It's doing it right now.

00:11:55.000 Exactly.

00:11:56.000 So the vaccine mandate's there.

00:11:58.000 This is an attempt to redirect But it's probably still gonna happen.

00:12:02.000 It's probably still gonna happen.

00:12:03.000 And I'll tell you, I really don't think that the vaccines are the goal of the mandate, as people who listen probably have heard me say a million times.

00:12:12.000 Because if you look at the Chicago police, they're like, if you try and retire right now, instead of getting vaccinated, we will take your benefits.

00:12:19.000 We will go after your benefits.

00:12:20.000 So very clearly, they're just trying to force people.

00:12:25.000 It's about the mandate, not about the vaccine part of it.

00:12:29.000 Also, it's also important in that specific case that a judge actually put a restraining order on the Chicago Police Union chief that's barring him from talking about the vaccine publicly.

00:12:41.000 So this is a major fight that's happening between the police union, the mayor of Chicago, and this is not just in Chicago.

00:12:48.000 There was also Police and firefighters today in Seattle that decided that they were going to feed the homeless because they were fired from their public service jobs.

00:12:57.000 And they came out, they went on the steps of City Hall, took off their boots, left them there at City Hall.

00:13:02.000 So there's been a lot of different demonstrations.

00:13:05.000 There's been a lot of big protests in California.

00:13:08.000 A lot of people took their kids out of school today because the kids are mandated to be vaccinated and they took them to a protest.

00:13:14.000 And there was protests all over California saying, no, we're not going to go along with these mandates.

00:13:18.000 Here's what I think is interesting about Southwest is that initially they denied there was any

00:13:18.000 Right.

00:13:21.000 kind of sick out, right?

00:13:23.000 Not happening.

00:13:24.000 Then, all of a sudden, the CEO comes out and says, we didn't want to do a mandate.

00:13:28.000 Biden made us do it.

00:13:29.000 And it's kind of like, why are you bringing up mandates?

00:13:31.000 I thought the narrative was that there was no, you know, that there was no protest or

00:13:35.000 anything about this.

00:13:37.000 So they're clearly trying to now blame, you know, Joe Biden.

00:13:41.000 But I'm wondering, Michael, what you think about, you know, do you think Trump would have done something similar?

00:13:46.000 Is this an issue of progressives enacting policies that are damaging to business and first responders?

00:13:52.000 I mean, at this point, honestly, what freaks me out is that we've had such a morale hit

00:13:57.000 for the police in the United States over the last year and a half, ever since the George

00:14:00.000 Floyd protests.

00:14:02.000 You know, we've lost, you know, a lot of these police forces are understaffed right now.

00:14:07.000 One of the things that I became very, I was so surprised to find was that the evidence

00:14:12.000 of the importance of police, because I come from the left, and so I've always been somewhat

00:14:16.000 skeptical of the police as part of the criminal justice establishment.

00:14:19.000 But the evidence that police prevent homicides is just really strong, and the relationship

00:14:24.000 between cops and potential killers, just interacting with them every day in the neighborhood, very

00:14:30.000 strong evidence that that works.

00:14:31.000 And so after 2015, after the Ferguson protests, there was a pretty sharp increase in homicides.

00:14:38.000 One of the police chiefs in Ferguson said, we're calling this the Ferguson effect because we think that both the cops are pulling back from their policing and the criminals are more emboldened.

00:14:46.000 A lot of people on the left dismissed that, but we saw it again after the George Floyd protests last year.

00:14:53.000 So clearly, anything that would basically dampen the morale of police right now, I think would contribute to increasing crime.

00:15:02.000 I mean, it's just at the federal level, federal contractors, federal employees, right?

00:15:07.000 So it's, I don't know, is it just a direct correlation between this is affecting the morale of the officers or is this just failed policy?

00:15:18.000 I'm a little bit on the fence on this one.

00:15:20.000 I mean, I'm vaccinated.

00:15:21.000 I think vaccines are important.

00:15:23.000 I also think that this issue is sort of that there's no real explanation of what the end game here is.

00:15:28.000 You know, like how long are we wearing masks for?

00:15:30.000 What is going to be the deal with vaccine requirements?

00:15:32.000 Forever.

00:15:33.000 Hasn't felt like we've had a proper conversation about it.

00:15:37.000 I mean, we do all the time.

00:15:39.000 And, you know, the funny thing is, 15 days to slow the spread has quickly turned into nearly two years of harsh restrictions, mandates, requirements.

00:15:48.000 And there's one prediction right now that what's going to happen is there will be a wave of fake vaccine cards.

00:15:54.000 We've already seen some stories.

00:15:55.000 And then all of a sudden you're hearing in the media, people want digital passports and they've already started making them.

00:16:00.000 And then what really happens is a social credit system.

00:16:03.000 So they track more than just your vaccine.

00:16:07.000 One of the reasons I'm very much opposed to this is they're trying to use something that most people find reasonable, like getting a vaccine.

00:16:15.000 I've got a ton.

00:16:16.000 I've traveled all over, so I just had to get all these cards, and when you go to Venezuela, you need one.

00:16:20.000 And then they're going to use that as they're in to get you to carry your passport.

00:16:24.000 What are they doing in New York?

00:16:26.000 You need your ID as well as your medical card.

00:16:29.000 Well, for a lot of people, it's going to be easier just to download the app.

00:16:31.000 What's the app going to do?

00:16:32.000 The app's going to track you in many, many different ways.

00:16:35.000 It's going to give the government access to data that, you know, only Facebook has, for instance, and shouldn't.

00:16:39.000 So that's... Well, for me, this is a big loyalty test.

00:16:43.000 Because a lot of officers who are skeptical of the federal government, who want bodily autonomy, who...

00:16:48.000 think that they should have the right to decide what is right for them.

00:16:51.000 There's a lot of people who are vaccinated who are against the vaccine mandates that are still not even talked about widely and publicly, but there's a big sector of these individuals out there.

00:17:01.000 So, you know, we had a guest on a couple days ago that said it's very easy to fake a lot of this compliance, a lot of these passports, and the people who are standing up, the people who are vocal, are deciding to do it on principles, are deciding to do it on morale, And that's why seeing a lot of these officers being purged a lot of these officers being fired only will help I believe the federal government in the long run because they'll have more compliant officers that will always do what they want them to do no matter what the consequences are and you always start with something little and you keep escalating it that's why we started with.

00:17:34.000 You know, just two weeks to stay home, and then masks, and then vaccines, and then second vaccines, and the passport systems, and now booster shots, and then it's only going to get worse from here unless the American people stand up and say enough is enough.

00:17:47.000 We're not going along with this, and that's why I think this Southwest story is so big.

00:17:51.000 It deserves a lot more mentions, and someone in the comment section wrote that Southwest decided to do this because of the weather conditions, which I thought was Absolutely hilarious, because that was their initial line.

00:18:03.000 Jen Psaki said that nothing existed, that this wasn't a protest, nothing was happening here.

00:18:08.000 Well, obviously it was, because why did Southwest change their major decision here?

00:18:13.000 So these are going to have far-reaching implications, not just with the police, not just in the corporate world, but this is, I think, deliberately done as a loyalty test to see who's going to obey government the most.

00:18:24.000 And so your vision is basically we should just, you know, basically have no vaccine requirements, no vaccine mandates, no mask requirements, and just make it like the flu shot.

00:18:34.000 In other words, if you want to get the flu shot, you get the flu shot.

00:18:36.000 Same thing with coronavirus.

00:18:37.000 Yeah, I certainly think so.

00:18:39.000 We had a really interesting conversation.

00:18:40.000 You know, Ian asked about the morality of mandates.

00:18:43.000 Like, what if you had Ebola?

00:18:44.000 This is a good question.

00:18:45.000 And I'm like, it is tough.

00:18:46.000 I think with like an airborne Ebola with like a massively high infectivity and you'd like it would self-regulate in a lot of ways.

00:18:54.000 But ultimately, regardless of whether or not it does, I think even if that is the case, we shouldn't have mandates.

00:19:03.000 It should self-regulate.

00:19:04.000 People should say, I'm concerned about this, I will protect myself.

00:19:07.000 But now all of a sudden we're getting just the argument changes every single time it comes out, right?

00:19:12.000 First, Fauci has gone back and forth on masks, I think, two or three times.

00:19:16.000 He went back and forth on double masking a couple times.

00:19:19.000 Then the CDC said, wear double masks.

00:19:21.000 And I think a lot of people at this point are just like, When you get a Fauci coming out who can't give you a straight answer, but he keeps being touted and championed, eventually people just say, enough!

00:19:30.000 One of the biggest issues with the mandates is it's forcing people to disclose medical conditions.

00:19:37.000 It's forcing people to disclose private personal details.

00:19:40.000 And if you're concerned about it, you need to assume the risks of your life to go out and live and work.

00:19:45.000 From the beginning, one of the problems we've seen with COVID Is that we've decided to do a one-size-fits-all approach to literally everything.

00:19:52.000 Hey, the people above 40 are the highest risk factor, so let's lock down everything including schools.

00:19:59.000 And now we're in a major economic crisis, which is only being exacerbated by ridiculous Joe Biden policies and ignorance and Pete Buttigieg being on vacation. 0.67

00:20:07.000 So they're really good at making things worse.

00:20:09.000 Maybe we should have had a surgical approach where we said, okay, if you're in a vulnerable population, we'll do special accommodations, we'll do what we can to have skeleton crews keeping the economy running so we don't just shut everything down.

00:20:19.000 But we went one size fits all.

00:20:21.000 Now we're doing the same thing.

00:20:23.000 And you'll have people who have very deep religious or moral convictions as to why they're

00:20:28.000 not interested in this, notably the use of fetal cells in the experimentation process

00:20:33.000 for the Pfizer vaccine, and Johnson & Johnson uses fetal cells for the growth of the virus

00:20:36.000 to produce it.

00:20:37.000 I can certainly understand why a lot of people are like, you cannot force me to take something

00:20:41.000 like that.

00:20:42.000 And then you have medical conditions in which already in New York, there's no exceptions

00:20:46.000 for medical conditions.

00:20:48.000 And many of these businesses are saying, oh, your doctor said no?

00:20:52.000 We reject that logic.

00:20:54.000 And so I'm seeing stories of... We had this woman, I believe it was from ESPN, who said that she's trying to have a baby with her husband, and for that, she's been recommended not to get the... I believe that's what it is.

00:21:04.000 Well, she says she's not going to be in the vaccine, and they said, we don't care whether you want to have a kid or not.

00:21:08.000 There have been a few stories of women who have said their doctors advised them not to get the vaccine while they're currently or about to, you know, try and have a kid.

00:21:16.000 Even though, I think the FDA said it's safe for women who are pregnant. 0.67

00:21:19.000 Their doctors still gave them personal advice based on maybe their blood pressure.

00:21:23.000 And now because of the FDA, because of the establishment, these women are being told, choose to have a kid or quit your job. 1.00

00:21:30.000 Like, this whole thing is completely broken.

00:21:33.000 That's why I'm like, it's bad across the board.

00:21:35.000 And where do you stand?

00:21:36.000 What about things like measles vaccines that are mandated for kids before coronavirus, obviously, or polio?

00:21:43.000 What about those vaccines?

00:21:44.000 Yeah, so those are particularly different, but there is an interesting overlap.

00:21:48.000 I would oppose, in some respects, vaccine mandates in that area.

00:21:52.000 However, we're talking about vaccines that have been tested for decades.

00:21:56.000 The production of some of these is 20-30 years.

00:22:01.000 And these mandates were all implemented through long legislative processes, as opposed to the mayor said, do it or else.

00:22:08.000 The president says, do it or else.

00:22:10.000 And now people who are trying to get legitimate exemptions are being told no.

00:22:16.000 And now the interesting thing is that this is all starting.

00:22:18.000 This is why, again, man, talk about bad policy from Democrats.

00:22:22.000 By mandating This, uh, the COVID vaccine, which is just entering now, the long-term trials, according to the FDA insert for the community vaccine.

00:22:32.000 You have people now looking into MMR vaccines and the other, you know, other standard vaccines, and they're discovering that not only do we use fetal cells in the production of the viruses from aborted babies, we're learning that they use that for like ibuprofen and stuff.

00:22:47.000 So now you're getting people actually starting to challenge past vaccine mandates, which most of us didn't have a problem with because we were like, long-standing research, legislative process, legislative approach.

00:22:58.000 Okay, some of us don't like that it's happening, but we agree we went through that process.

00:23:02.000 Now you have Bill de Blasio being like, do it or else with no exemptions.

00:23:05.000 And so you get people who have underlying medical conditions being denied access to restaurants.

00:23:09.000 You have people who are just concerned about trusting the government, namely a lot of people in the black community, Billy Prempeh made a great video talking about why the black community is untrusting of this. 1.00

00:23:19.000 They're being told they can't go into these businesses.

00:23:22.000 And now because of the politics of it, you actually have Republicans saying, maybe we should look into all of the mandates.

00:23:28.000 And I'm like, oh, geez.

00:23:29.000 Yeah.

00:23:30.000 I mean, they've been lying through their teeth about so many of these issues.

00:23:33.000 They've been flip-flopping, they've been inconsistent, they've been censoring scientists, they've been censoring studies, they've been censoring actual real debate that we never had about this.

00:23:41.000 Fauci only does softball interviews where they, a family-friendly show, pleasure him with words in many different possible ways that I never thought was even possible.

00:23:52.000 So when we're not even having a real conversation, when we're told 100% safe and effective, and then we're finding out, oh, 3% after a few months, and a lot of the data that's still coming that we don't know, it brings up a lot more questions than answers.

00:24:06.000 But to kind of put the question back on to you, that you asked Tim, how would you approach everything?

00:24:11.000 Well, yeah, I mean, here's the thing, guys.

00:24:12.000 I'm not a great person to ask about this, because I As soon as COVID hit, I decided to work on this book, and I'm flat out on this book.

00:24:20.000 It was drugs, crime, homelessness for the last several hundred years.

00:24:25.000 All I would say is that I think it's interesting because, of course, we have two mental models of vaccines.

00:24:30.000 One is, as a parent, I've got two kids, both have been through school already, but you have to get vaccines to go to public schools.

00:24:38.000 But then you have a flu vaccine, You know, every year we get the shot for the flu vaccine.

00:24:44.000 That's not mandated.

00:24:46.000 So we have two different models.

00:24:47.000 So it's kind of like, is coronavirus like polio and measles or is it like a flu?

00:24:52.000 Obviously, it's probably somewhere in between.

00:24:55.000 Yeah, that's interesting.

00:24:56.000 Long COVID is interesting because you've got these lingering health effects and that's why they're saying, OK, you know, maybe people should get this.

00:25:03.000 I don't think, you know, I'll put it this way, while COVID is very obviously serious and dangerous, somewhere in between I think is a good way to put it.

00:25:11.000 I look at the data and I'm just like, I don't see this as being on that level of mandating vaccines for this, but more importantly, You know, you can choose not to put your kid in these schools.

00:25:23.000 You can go to private schools.

00:25:24.000 You can go other places.

00:25:25.000 You can homeschool.

00:25:26.000 To say you can't go to a restaurant or hold a job is where we're starting to get very serious.

00:25:30.000 Because right now, this is really where the big dividing line is.

00:25:34.000 You could go and get a job anywhere and they're not going to demand your medical papers.

00:25:37.000 You know, they'll ask for your government papers, which already is, you know, pretty interesting, I think.

00:25:41.000 There should be an argument about that.

00:25:43.000 But now, we're getting to the point where it's, if you want to get a job, you have to undergo a state-mandated medical procedure.

00:25:49.000 And that's where I'm like, yeah, I'm not a big fan of that.

00:25:54.000 It's one thing to be like, this is a school.

00:25:56.000 You don't have to put your kid in this school.

00:25:58.000 You can find other ways to educate your kid.

00:26:01.000 Now they're saying, well, if you've got Joe Biden doing federal mandates, if you've got New York City doing citywide mandates, that's passing just business mandates.

00:26:13.000 Now as for private businesses, there's an interesting argument here, and I think non-discrimination is where it becomes, there's a question about whether or not a business like Southwest could do this.

00:26:23.000 So, does a business have a right to discriminate on the basis of medical or religious practices?

00:26:29.000 And the answer is no.

00:26:30.000 Overwhelmingly no.

00:26:31.000 I know that conservatives used to be on the other side of this to a great degree, like, you know, the famous story of the baker.

00:26:38.000 The argument was the baker was told he had to write a message he didn't want to write.

00:26:41.000 He ended up winning on free speech grounds, I guess, but they still harass him, the left does.

00:26:45.000 So I've always been on the side of, if you're using public spaces, funded by the public, you have a right to serve the public and provide public accommodation to everyone, you can't make up arbitrary reasons to discriminate.

00:26:56.000 If someone comes in screaming or threatening people, yeah, by all means kick them out.

00:26:59.000 If someone's got a disability, I don't think you should be able to say no. 1.00

00:27:03.000 However, what are we seeing with a lot of these companies?

00:27:06.000 They don't care about what your doctor said.

00:27:08.000 What are we seeing in New York?

00:27:10.000 In New York, I called a couple dozen restaurants who outright told me they did not care if you had a disability barring vaccination, like maybe you have Guillain-Barré syndrome, like the drummer from The Offspring.

00:27:19.000 He got kicked out of the band because he could not get the vaccine due to Guillain-Barré syndrome.

00:27:24.000 So this is where people have just straight up been like, we have now violated the Americans with Disabilities Act.

00:27:30.000 We don't care and no one will enforce it.

00:27:33.000 I just, not a fan.

00:27:34.000 Yeah, I mean, it seems like you have these two extremes between Australia and Sweden, you know, that have been sort of out there as these two visible mental models.

00:27:34.000 Not a fan.

00:27:44.000 And I mean, what I can, what I totally agree with is the idea that Americans are, we're really bad at, this is one of the points I make in San Francisco, we're just bad at the gray areas and a more surgical approach to these things. 0.95

00:27:57.000 We just tend to be, it tends to be an on or off switch for us.

00:27:59.000 Yeah, I definitely agree with that assessment because from the very beginning there was so much fear-mongering, there was so much drama, there was so much emotional manipulation that literally people shut down and Democratic politicians and also other politicians said close down those small mom-and-pop businesses.

00:28:14.000 Police officers ran around, shut down those businesses, meanwhile the big multinational corporations were allowed to be open the whole time.

00:28:21.000 And I think to add to your point, that's why there was also a sentiment against the police officers that was very negative on the right because of that.

00:28:28.000 And they didn't get a lot of support when Black Lives Matter kicked up during that summer because everyone's like, these are the same guys that kicked down my door and shut down my business while allowing Walmart and Costco to do whatever they wanted to. 0.51

00:28:40.000 So where does this end?

00:28:42.000 There's too many billionaires benefiting from it.

00:28:42.000 It doesn't.

00:28:45.000 It's going to proceed to lead to a situation that we're seeing in Australia, that we're seeing in Italy.

00:28:50.000 There's a viral video that I played in my YouTube video today of an old grandma outside of a hospital.

00:28:56.000 And a security guard is kicking her out. 0.92

00:28:59.000 And he's like, I want, I want, you know, he wants the VAX mandate.

00:29:02.000 She didn't have her right paperwork.

00:29:03.000 She needed treatment at the hospital.

00:29:05.000 She couldn't get it.

00:29:06.000 She was told to go away.

00:29:07.000 And this poor elderly grandmother walked away. 1.00

00:29:10.000 Yeah.

00:29:10.000 Because she didn't have the paperwork.

00:29:11.000 But she was vaccinated?

00:29:12.000 I have no idea about that.

00:29:15.000 But these are the vaccine mandates.

00:29:17.000 You don't have your paperwork.

00:29:18.000 You can't get food.

00:29:19.000 You can't get services that are basic human rights services that shouldn't be denied to anyone.

00:29:25.000 And this is going to lead to an Australian-Italian-like situation. 0.66

00:29:29.000 They're just ramping up.

00:29:30.000 They're just ahead of the curve more than we are on this phase.

00:29:33.000 And that's where it's headed unless people wake up here in the United States.

00:29:36.000 My wife and I just...

00:29:38.000 Oh, sorry.

00:29:39.000 They're not actually human rights, like the right to buy someone's food and stuff like that.

00:29:42.000 Those are actually those are civil.

00:29:43.000 Some of them are civil rights that are being violated, but I don't think any basic human rights are at this point.

00:29:48.000 You don't think human right humans have a right to like, trade with each other?

00:29:54.000 A state coming in and saying you can't be a part of society, is that not a violation of human rights?

00:30:00.000 Saying you can't get water or you can't get food.

00:30:02.000 Let's put it this way, Ian, are you saying that like if a black dude went to a restaurant

00:30:06.000 and they said you're not allowed to buy from this restaurant, that's not a violation of

00:30:09.000 human rights?

00:30:10.000 If a private company wants to not serve someone, yeah, they can not serve someone.

00:30:14.000 So you're on the side of like, was that William F. Buckley back in the anti-civil rights movement in the 50s?

00:30:19.000 You would oppose Martin Luther King?

00:30:21.000 But it's not a company.

00:30:22.000 It's a government.

00:30:23.000 It's a centralized big force that everyone is forced to pay that is discriminating against people for their own personal medical decisions.

00:30:30.000 It's not a private company.

00:30:31.000 Don't conflate it that way.

00:30:34.000 It's a big centralized government intervening in people's personal lives saying, you can't get water, you can't get food.

00:30:40.000 But yes, there's also a big government intervening in private businesses saying you can't deny services to someone on these bases.

00:30:46.000 That's a whole different argument than what Ian's making now.

00:30:48.000 So I'm on the side of civil rights.

00:30:50.000 The civil rights protests, where they said you should not be allowed to discriminate on the basis of race, national origin, religion.

00:30:55.000 And then we have the ADA, which is medical reasons.

00:30:57.000 But you're more on the side of the opposition, like the Klan and the Democratic Party.

00:31:02.000 No, I'm just saying that you said that they were not being able to go to a restaurant is a basic human right.

00:31:07.000 I think it's not.

00:31:08.000 I'm saying your access to be able to get food and water.

00:31:12.000 So the example that Luke was giving was this lady who's trying to go to the hospital.

00:31:15.000 Now if you recall, we just had that story from DC where the warden was held in contempt for not following through with the human rights of a prisoner who broke his wrist.

00:31:24.000 Healthcare is not a human right.

00:31:25.000 If you're in prison and you're being detained by someone, they have an obligation, a responsibility to make sure you are not going through undue suffering.

00:31:33.000 But shouldn't you be able to like seek medical care?

00:31:36.000 Like at least have an opportunity to go in and talk to somebody about care?

00:31:39.000 That's a human right is the freedom.

00:31:41.000 Well, when you're in prison, you don't have human rights, I don't think.

00:31:44.000 They take them away from you when you're in prison.

00:31:46.000 So you're saying that they should be allowed to buy the service of medical care, but not buy a cheeseburger.

00:31:52.000 No, you don't have a right to medical care.

00:31:55.000 That's not a human right.

00:31:56.000 I just thought you were saying you should have a right to seek that out.

00:32:00.000 I don't know.

00:32:01.000 No, I don't know.

00:32:02.000 That's an interesting, like Ian, you're an interesting guy.

00:32:05.000 Like, your human rights are not your right to other people's services is my point.

00:32:10.000 So this is actually like, I think Ron Paul's position was very much the Civil Rights Act

00:32:14.000 should have never have been passed.

00:32:15.000 Private businesses have a right to discriminate.

00:32:17.000 I very much disagree with that.

00:32:19.000 I think that they're occupying space in the commons that we pay for.

00:32:22.000 Yeah, civil rights are like, I paid my taxes so the fire department has to come and put 1.00

00:32:26.000 my fire out.

00:32:27.000 That's a civil right.

00:32:28.000 But you don't have a basic human right to that fire.

00:32:29.000 Now you're confiding it.

00:32:30.000 You don't have a basic human right.

00:32:31.000 You're confusing the subject of the law.

00:32:32.000 Do you understand your human rights are not a right to other people's services?

00:32:37.000 That's not what I'm arguing.

00:32:40.000 I'm arguing that your government mandating a domestic permission slip passport system where you have to get their acceptance in order to go to the supermarket or in order to get food and water is a violation of that.

00:32:53.000 That's the government of doing that.

00:32:54.000 It depends on how dangerous the disease is.

00:32:56.000 I don't think so.

00:32:57.000 Of course it does.

00:32:57.000 No.

00:32:58.000 No, I don't think so.

00:32:59.000 I don't think so.

00:33:00.000 I think I literally just mentioned all of that.

00:33:02.000 Like, people need to self-regulate if there is a very serious risk.

00:33:05.000 They need to decide what risk they're willing to accept or not.

00:33:08.000 Except if, you know, George Washington inoculates his troops against syphilis.

00:33:12.000 His troops?

00:33:13.000 People who are enlisted or conscripted?

00:33:15.000 Or polio is crippling kids and so they vaccinate the population.

00:33:18.000 What was polio?

00:33:18.000 Like 20 to 80 percent?

00:33:19.000 Smallpox is killing a giant percentage of the population so they mandate, like, at some point, If the angry horde won't get healthy, then what do you do?

00:33:29.000 Yeah, stomp it with the boot. 0.97

00:33:31.000 Now do that with fat people. 1.00

00:33:34.000 Now do that with people with STDs. 0.99

00:33:36.000 Dude, you're such an authoritarian.

00:33:42.000 We've had this conversation before.

00:33:43.000 I think there is a time and a place to exert authority.

00:33:45.000 My personal feeling is that when you look at the, according to Sanjay Gupta, 99.5% recovery rate for COVID and of that 0.5% that people aren't recovering, usually a lot of those people are obese, that it doesn't look like a polio level problem.

00:34:00.000 So now we're talking like ethics and is it ethical to mandate a vaccine?

00:34:04.000 I don't think so.

00:34:05.000 It's like you're arguing for freedom in one argument and then fascism in another sentence.

00:34:09.000 It's very confusing.

00:34:10.000 because it's like, it's jumbled.

00:34:11.000 I don't know what the left does though.

00:34:12.000 I don't.

00:34:13.000 They say, you know, oh, you can't have free speech if there's hate speech because hate

00:34:17.000 speech stops people from speaking.

00:34:19.000 Therefore, banning hate speech is actually free speech.

00:34:21.000 You see how they do these semantic manipulations.

00:34:24.000 Like that's what Ian does.

00:34:26.000 Someone wrote in the comment section, authoritative Ian.

00:34:29.000 Authority Ian?

00:34:31.000 And that's what's being said here.

00:34:32.000 Well, just to defend, I'll defend Ian because I think I'm probably closer to your view on

00:34:36.000 this, which is, I mean, obviously we have restrictions on all sorts of freedoms, including

00:34:39.000 freedom of speech.

00:34:40.000 You're not allowed to yell fire in a crowded theater.

00:34:42.000 No.

00:34:42.000 That's not true.

00:34:43.000 That isn't true?

00:34:44.000 You're actually allowed to yell fire in a crowded theater.

00:34:45.000 Yeah, that was Brandenburg v. Ohio, I think, where they set that.

00:34:49.000 Got overturned in the 60s.

00:34:51.000 You're not allowed to threaten people.

00:34:53.000 Uh, you're not allowed to threaten people with killing them.

00:34:56.000 That's illegal.

00:34:56.000 You can report to the police and they'll be investigated.

00:34:59.000 You're not allowed to go up to people and be like, I'm gonna kill you tonight and kill all your family members. 0.99

00:35:04.000 That's not legal. 0.99

00:35:05.000 Direct threats though aren't an expression of opinion. 0.95

00:35:09.000 You know, you are allowed to say, I hope you die, or I think someone should do X to you.

00:35:14.000 You're not allowed to incite or direct violence. 1.00

00:35:16.000 You're not allowed to say, if you keep tweeting that, I'm going to come over to your house and kill you and your family. 0.99

00:35:20.000 You're not allowed to do that. 1.00

00:35:21.000 Right.

00:35:22.000 So there is a restriction on speech.

00:35:24.000 And I think I agree with you about the severity of this.

00:35:28.000 I think this issue does turn on the severity.

00:35:30.000 I think if it were more severe, Um, you would be in a very, you'd be in a minority of people that were like, Hey, we shall self-regulate.

00:35:37.000 I just think most people would be calling for, I mean, I live in Berkeley where people would give me like the skunk eye for not wearing a mask while walking in the nature trails. 0.99

00:35:44.000 I mean, it was like the demands for, I mean, I think one of the most interesting parts of this phenomenon is that like the, the governance response is being demanded by those local cultures.

00:35:54.000 Right.

00:35:54.000 So it's like.

00:35:55.000 Right.

00:35:56.000 Do you ever see the movie Midsommar, the horror movie?

00:35:59.000 I always think about that because you're like, those guys are hardcore.

00:36:03.000 That's coming from within Swedish culture.

00:36:05.000 I mean, there's obviously some mediating influences like the kind of government they have, but similarly, they're very moralizing in Australia, I find.

00:36:14.000 It's very much like, This is a dangerous disease, and therefore we're going to clamp down on anybody.

00:36:19.000 And Sweden, when they interviewed the guy that oversaw the COVID response, he was very much like, look, it's very complex, and there's shades of gray.

00:36:27.000 So I do think that if COVID were a much more deadly disease, a much more contagious disease, and if it killed a lot more young people, then we would have seen a more severe response.

00:36:37.000 regardless of the kind of academic arguments about it, we would have been dealing with a much more severe

00:36:43.000 governmental response.

00:36:44.000 I think people would have been much more accepting of mandates, even in opposition,

00:36:48.000 if the rates were really, really high, like way higher.

00:36:51.000 Like initially we thought, like the New York Times was like six million and the United States might die,

00:36:55.000 and so people were like, 15 days, all right, we get it.

00:36:58.000 And then after a while we were kind of like, well, Cuomo killed 15,000 people,

00:37:02.000 and then you got Wolf, and you got Whitmer, They kept putting sick people in nursing homes, so their policies were literally killing people, and maybe we need to stop doing the things we're doing.

00:37:12.000 I think there's an argument to be made here that with the more government intervention there was, the more problems that came of it.

00:37:19.000 Whether it's lockdowns making billionaires richer than ever, making people poor, Whether it's the the lockdowns, the mandates, the implications, they have severe ramifications.

00:37:28.000 And I would say those were far off worse.

00:37:30.000 And I think there's arguments to be made here than the actual sickness itself.

00:37:34.000 And I think we still haven't quantified the data.

00:37:36.000 We still haven't found everything out.

00:37:37.000 But I think 10 years from now or 20 years from now, when we find out the truth of what's happening now, I think a lot of us are going to be shocked and disgusted.

00:37:44.000 Maybe history is written by the victors, Luke.

00:37:46.000 It is.

00:37:47.000 But but I think mainstream media will write what they write.

00:37:50.000 The truth somehow still has a way of coming out, and even though it's suppressed a lot of the times, it still finds a way of seeping up somehow.

00:37:57.000 I've done Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, now I'm doing the Timcast.

00:38:03.000 It's funny because the response... So Joe Rogan has 11 million followers.

00:38:07.000 It's the biggest media presence I've had in eight years.

00:38:12.000 And eight years ago I did the Colbert Report.

00:38:15.000 And when I went on Colbert Report, I was like, how many people watch this?

00:38:18.000 And they were like a million, plus maybe another couple of million on YouTube

00:38:21.000 and streaming, 3 million viewers of that.

00:38:24.000 And that was huge.

00:38:25.000 Like that was the one, like my high school buddies were like,

00:38:28.000 hey man, you really made, you know, like that.

00:38:30.000 Whereas now it's Joe Rogan and he has a completely counter establishment view of COVID.

00:38:37.000 You know, he's pro UFOs.

00:38:39.000 He's pro psychedelics.

00:38:40.000 I mean, so in some ways you go, you guys are pretty darn mainstream for being supposedly marginal voices, right?

00:38:47.000 And the podcast as an author, I can tell you This is so much fun for me.

00:38:52.000 I mean, I get to go on podcasts and you can actually make a mistake and correct it.

00:38:57.000 There's nobody playing gotcha with you.

00:38:58.000 People are actually interested in what you have to say.

00:39:00.000 Two or three hours for authors.

00:39:02.000 If you spend a year or two slaving away on a book, And then you get to go on a podcast.

00:39:06.000 I mean, it's what we prefer.

00:39:08.000 And so I find myself watching, 80% of my time watching TV is watching YouTube and watching podcasts like this.

00:39:14.000 So I think you guys might be the victors that write the history.

00:39:18.000 Maybe it won't be somebody else.

00:39:19.000 Have you guys heard about Aussie media?

00:39:21.000 Yeah, I've heard of it.

00:39:23.000 I've never heard of it.

00:39:23.000 No.

00:39:24.000 No?

00:39:25.000 OZY?

00:39:25.000 Yeah.

00:39:25.000 I've heard of it.

00:39:27.000 But I mean like the breaking news.

00:39:29.000 Don't tell me about it.

00:39:30.000 No one has any ideas?

00:39:30.000 No.

00:39:31.000 Yeah, well you see what's going on with New York.

00:39:33.000 These people are in a cult and they're egocentric and so I love, I follow a lot of these journalists and they're tweeting about the great scandal that is the vaporware of Aussie media and I'm just watching this like wow. 0.84

00:39:45.000 Talk about thinking people care about garbage that no one cares about. 0.96

00:39:50.000 This is what happens. 0.66

00:39:51.000 Someone in New York who works in media will write a story and they'll be like, guys, did you hear about this?

00:39:56.000 And they'll all get excited because they all play inside baseball.

00:40:00.000 And then regular viewers, like regular readers, are like on the New York Times like, the hell are they talking about?

00:40:05.000 The politics of a media company I know nothing about?

00:40:07.000 Who cares?

00:40:08.000 Why is this news?

00:40:09.000 They do that all the time.

00:40:12.000 They don't... So I think my favorite example is Sanjay Gupta being like, I've never had a conversation more than three hours.

00:40:19.000 These people don't talk.

00:40:19.000 Amazing.

00:40:21.000 They sit in rooms, they read books, and then they watch TV, and then they might say a few words in passing.

00:40:25.000 So weird.

00:40:26.000 I think you're really on to something.

00:40:28.000 First of all, I thought that the Joe Rogan confrontation of Sanjay Gupta was—you don't want to overstate it—it was a turning point for me.

00:40:38.000 It was a moment where clearly Rogan was right, and everybody was like, Rogan's right, and CNN's backpedaling.

00:40:44.000 But it felt like a moment for me where—because we have this question of who do you trust?

00:40:49.000 And I kind of go, I end up, I think a lot of us are like, we trust individuals now.

00:40:54.000 I trust, and on different things, like I trust Barry Weiss on cancel culture.

00:40:59.000 You know, I trust Abigail Schreier on trans kids, you know.

00:41:05.000 I don't trust Barry Weiss on cancel culture.

00:41:06.000 Yeah, interesting.

00:41:07.000 Because she called Tulsi Gabbard a toady for Assad and didn't know what she was talking about.

00:41:10.000 Now, with all due respect, I think Barry's cool and everything.

00:41:13.000 But, you know, it's like I mentioned with the New York phenomenon, where it's like they're still very insular and very much self-promoting.

00:41:23.000 And so even after Barry, you know, leaves the New York Times or whatever, CNN still has her on.

00:41:28.000 Brian Stelter had her on, and they had a good conversation.

00:41:31.000 There's a viral clip on it.

00:41:32.000 But Brian Stelter would never have any real opposition, a strong opponent to anything he's done who could call him out.

00:41:38.000 It's not going to happen.

00:41:39.000 That was a great clip that is going viral right now.

00:41:42.000 It's a fantastic clip.

00:41:43.000 And I think she surmised a lot of the crazy things in our society very well and very eloquently.

00:41:49.000 So, I mean, just to have that, my reaction to it, wait, wait, wait, I thought common sense was banned on mainstream media.

00:41:55.000 Right.

00:41:55.000 Because the mainstream media has their doctrine, has their agenda, has their narrative.

00:41:59.000 They're in an extremely small echo chamber where they keep repeating the same insane claims.

00:42:05.000 Like for an example, Colin Powell passed away.

00:42:09.000 He was double vaxxed.

00:42:10.000 He died allegedly of COVID.

00:42:11.000 He was also very old.

00:42:13.000 He also, I believe, had cancer.

00:42:15.000 So again, you know, we don't know what happened.

00:42:17.000 I don't know.

00:42:18.000 I'm here to say I don't know if it was the vax.

00:42:20.000 I don't know if it was COVID.

00:42:21.000 I don't know if it was cancer.

00:42:22.000 I don't know if it was old age.

00:42:23.000 But the mainstream media, look at the narrative that they're running.

00:42:26.000 CNN had the former Surgeon General on that was saying it was the unvaxxed that definitely did it.

00:42:32.000 Jeff Tiedrich on Twitter said it's definitely the unvaxxed that did this.

00:42:37.000 The New York governor just came out with a statement saying that history can't be hijacked by the quote anti-vaxxers and it's definitely anti-vaxxers that got him sick.

00:42:48.000 How do they know?

00:42:49.000 Are they medical scientists?

00:42:51.000 Do they know the exact person that came into contact with them?

00:42:54.000 Do they have any evidence?

00:42:55.000 Do they have any proof?

00:42:56.000 Do they have any data?

00:42:57.000 No, they don't.

00:42:58.000 They're running with the same insane talking point that's regurgitated from one prominent establishment figure, from another tool, from another sellout, from another just basic human being that is given a script and regurgitating it back to you because they pay him a lot of money.

00:43:13.000 But doesn't the fact that Cena had Barry Weiss on show It looks to me like there's a full-blown backlash underway against cancel culture, and that's just beginning.

00:43:25.000 CNN having Barry Weiss on is a way of saying, hey, we know we took a hit over the Sanjay Gupta thing and the Ivermectin thing with Joe Rogan.

00:43:33.000 We're going to have Barry Weiss on.

00:43:35.000 I noticed the New York Times just recently gave a column to my friend John McWhorter You got your start in alternative journalism.

00:43:42.000 I mean, I was in the 90s.

00:43:44.000 woke politics, his new book is Woke Racism.

00:43:47.000 You know, I kind of look at that and I go, that's the establishment responding to this long form podcasting

00:43:54.000 alternative journalism.

00:43:55.000 I mean, you got your start in alternative journalism.

00:43:57.000 I mean, I was in the 90s.

00:43:58.000 Alternative journalism was hot, but it's almost like it's become where the intellectual center of American life is

00:44:05.000 now where you don't kind of go.

00:44:07.000 I wanted I watched a really thoughtful segment.

00:44:11.000 No one says I watched a really thoughtful segment on CNN.

00:44:13.000 They say I listened to a really thoughtful podcast with Tim Kast or Jordan Peterson or Joe Rogan.

00:44:18.000 I disagree with you because after the Rogan-Sanjay Gupta thing, CNN doubled down and tripled down on those same exact defunct talking points.

00:44:27.000 And Sanjay Gupta came on. Effectively rolled back what he had said on Rogan

00:44:32.000 when he was like they shouldn't have said that.

00:44:33.000 He went out with Don Lemon. Don Lemon said it is horse medicine. He goes, you're right. And he's like, you're

00:44:37.000 right.

00:44:37.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's funny because of course, though, then like then that's talked about. And so I don't, I don't

00:44:43.000 know that CNN doing that helped its own credibility any.

00:44:47.000 I think it probably undermined it. Do they have any credibility is the question.

00:44:51.000 And I think that Barry Weisting was a hiccup.

00:44:53.000 It was a glitch in the matrix and they're going to go back to their regularly scheduled programming, doubling down, tripling down on whatever the lie that they need to sell the American people on is.

00:45:02.000 I mean, you might be right.

00:45:03.000 I mean, we have this debate because we I would always have this debate with my colleagues over because, you know, we would point out, look, people are becoming more pro nuclear.

00:45:10.000 I'm a big advocate of nuclear power, including for climate change, but not just for climate change.

00:45:14.000 And I've been up against the vast majority of environmentalists and boomers on this issue. 0.99

00:45:20.000 And we have seen a huge change in attitudes on nuclear over the last five years, ten years.

00:45:25.000 That's why I went on Colbert for eight years ago.

00:45:28.000 I've seen just a massive change.

00:45:30.000 And at the same time, people will respond to me and they'll go, well, but the Sierra Club is still anti-nuclear.

00:45:34.000 And it's like, well, yeah, but those are like the last guys that are going to change their mind.

00:45:38.000 Greenpeace will never change their mind.

00:45:39.000 Yeah, Greenpeace is not going to change their mind, but you wouldn't measure our success by being like, you wouldn't be like, Well, there's still a Pope, even while acknowledging that Catholicism has significantly declined as a religion in the Western world over the last 500 years.

00:45:52.000 But there is the issue that CNN could say something and then YouTube will panic and then implement policy based on CNN's lies.

00:46:00.000 That's very scary.

00:46:02.000 I don't know if you guys have a view of it.

00:46:03.000 I was censored by Facebook.

00:46:07.000 Last year, and it was very upsetting.

00:46:09.000 It wasn't that, because when you read about censorship in the past, and also some of my favorite Brazilian musicians were censored, you'd always be like, that's so, those guys were badass.

00:46:18.000 Can I say that?

00:46:20.000 Those guys were real heroes, but when you're censored, it just feels terrible.

00:46:25.000 Like you're just angry and upset.

00:46:27.000 My friend John Stossel just sued Facebook over this, and you just feel angry and like, you know.

00:46:33.000 Well that was defamation though.

00:46:35.000 Yes.

00:46:35.000 He's suing over defamation because they accuse him of being fake news.

00:46:37.000 And it's an interesting thing, though, because when they say they censored me and when they censored me and they say Michael Schellenberger said false things, it did feel defamatory to me.

00:46:47.000 I was like, I said true things and now you're saying I'm saying false things.

00:46:50.000 You gotta sue him.

00:46:51.000 Yeah, I mean, what's disappointing is that I knew people at Facebook, and of course they were just of zero help whatsoever.

00:47:00.000 So you just feel really alone, and of course you're sort of ostracized.

00:47:03.000 And there's no recourse.

00:47:04.000 There's no way to even apologize.

00:47:08.000 There's no way to even have retribution in any way, shape, or form, or even forgiveness.

00:47:15.000 You can appeal to the same judge that sentenced you.

00:47:17.000 Then that's not an appeals process.

00:47:19.000 Exactly.

00:47:20.000 So this is another layer to it that's cruel and evil in so many ways because the rules are very kind of generic.

00:47:27.000 They implement them on some people and not on others.

00:47:29.000 And then when they do hit you, they destroy your livelihood.

00:47:32.000 They destroy your reputation.

00:47:33.000 They create consequences that could have almost everything taken away from you, not just your Twitter page or TikTok

00:47:40.000 page.

00:47:40.000 I mean, there are some people that can't have an Uber, can't have an Airbnb, can't have a bank account because of their

00:47:45.000 political ideas in this country.

00:47:47.000 And so what do you do about that?

00:47:49.000 You build decentralized internet technology where you can also appeal to a jury like the Mines system if you go for

00:47:56.000 it.

00:47:56.000 Bitcoin is an answer to the financial situation.

00:47:59.000 What about social media?

00:48:00.000 There's alternatives to social media, but again, the big tech monopolies, with the help of government, control the major highways.

00:48:06.000 They were able to build their infrastructure with tax dollars.

00:48:09.000 These are not private entities.

00:48:11.000 They have connections to intelligence agencies.

00:48:13.000 They have connections to governments.

00:48:15.000 They work hand-in-hand.

00:48:16.000 They worked in tandem.

00:48:17.000 And there's an argument of direct government intervention, but I don't believe that the same government that created this problem will be solving it anytime soon.

00:48:25.000 I think it was what the Democrats in California were sending names to Twitter to ban.

00:48:29.000 Yeah.

00:48:29.000 Oh, sure.

00:48:30.000 I mean, so I'm interested in Glenn Greenwald.

00:48:33.000 A lot of people are interested in Glenn Greenwald.

00:48:34.000 It became more interesting to me in recent years.

00:48:37.000 He's signed up for this new platform, Rumble.

00:48:40.000 Rumble.

00:48:41.000 Yeah.

00:48:42.000 I have.

00:48:43.000 I watch YouTube.

00:48:44.000 I'm 50, so I'm a lot older than you guys, and maybe I'm just too square, but like, I sit down and watch YouTube, and I see you, and I see Jordan Peterson, and I see Joe Rogan.

00:48:53.000 I don't see Glenn Greenwald, and so what do I gotta do?

00:48:55.000 I gotta go into my smart TV, and what, reprogram it to get Rumble?

00:48:59.000 I mean, it was a little bit like, what was the alternative to Twitter that was there for like five minutes?

00:49:03.000 Parlor.

00:49:04.000 Last year, Parlor.

00:49:05.000 And then they colluded to destroy it.

00:49:07.000 Yeah, I mean, so you kind of go, there's a problem because, you know, we were all sold on these platforms for their ease of use.

00:49:12.000 And the idea that you would get to see, I mean, that's what's so exciting about Twitter still, is you still get to argue with liberals and conservatives.

00:49:19.000 So now what are we going to do?

00:49:20.000 We're going to have a platform for liberals and a platform for conservatives.

00:49:22.000 It's already what it is.

00:49:24.000 It's already what it is.

00:49:25.000 Twitter is, the people on Twitter who are prominent are like center-right.

00:49:32.000 People who are, like, staunch conservative have been purged or banned.

00:49:36.000 People who are, like, the far right was nuked a long time ago, except for, like, some specific individuals.

00:49:42.000 The far left, however, can call for violence, no problem.

00:49:46.000 Then you have the mainstream establishment left, can literally advocate for violence, tell people to be violent, advocate for people being thrown into woodchippers like the Covington kids, no problem. 0.98

00:49:56.000 And then you could tweet as a joke, learn to code, and get banned.

00:49:59.000 So we see, it's basically Twitter is center right to far left.

00:50:03.000 And what that does is it shapes the view of these journalists who think they're centrists because they're in the middle of that.

00:50:09.000 When in reality, they're leftists.

00:50:10.000 So what do you do about that?

00:50:12.000 We're building up the Fediverse right now.

00:50:13.000 Are you familiar with it?

00:50:14.000 No.

00:50:14.000 It's a federated network of networks, basically.

00:50:17.000 So like things like Mastodon, but basically it's a, you, it, the way we're doing it is Yeah, it's a social media protocol, so you can create your own social media platform where your content exists.

00:50:30.000 I'll use Gab as an example.

00:50:31.000 You know Gab?

00:50:32.000 Heard of it.

00:50:33.000 Gab is like one of the first alternatives to Twitter because of the censorship.

00:50:37.000 They exist on the Fediverse in that you can use any Fediverse app and follow Luke on Gab.

00:50:43.000 So Luke's username might be like lukeatgab.com.

00:50:46.000 I don't know if Luke is on Gab or whatever.

00:50:48.000 But then I could go on, you know, Super Web and then say I'm going to follow Luke at Gab.com and see his posts from a different website appearing on my feed on this website.

00:51:00.000 So what happens is there's no central authority to ban Luke.

00:51:03.000 OK, but you have so you have like almost a million Twitter followers.

00:51:07.000 You do.

00:51:09.000 I have one-tenth of yours.

00:51:11.000 And so why would you want to go to a platform where you and I would have the same number of Twitter followers?

00:51:17.000 Or the same number of followers.

00:51:18.000 Wouldn't you want to maintain your status superiority on a new platform?

00:51:22.000 I don't care about the followers.

00:51:23.000 I think a lot of people do.

00:51:24.000 In terms of the social credit system, it already exists.

00:51:28.000 It's the number of followers you have on Twitter.

00:51:29.000 Well, no, no, no.

00:51:30.000 It doesn't depend because the algorithm decides who sees what now.

00:51:33.000 I tweeted a picture of a hairless rabbit once.

00:51:35.000 You did, it was weird.

00:51:37.000 You know, I'll put it this way.

00:51:38.000 There's two different kinds of people who become prominent.

00:51:43.000 I was talking to a friend who does day trading stuff, and I'm like, there are people who just want to be rich, who will eventually become rich because they want to be rich.

00:51:50.000 But I think most people who become rich do it because there's something they're passionate about that they pursue, which leads them to being well-off.

00:51:56.000 I agree.

00:51:57.000 There are people who have Twitter followers because they're genuinely interesting, smart people, or they're, you know, uh, observant, so they can see things for other people, and they're good followers for that reason.

00:52:07.000 And then there are people who try to manipulate and game the system to try and gain followers and are worried, is my tweet getting enough retweets or whatever?

00:52:14.000 I don't care about any of that.

00:52:16.000 I don't- I tweet random jokes, nonsense, garbled whatever, cause Twitter is just hilarious, and so, uh...

00:52:23.000 But for a lot of people, their Twitter followers is really important social capital for their work.

00:52:30.000 I feel sorry for those people.

00:52:31.000 It's their identity for many of them.

00:52:33.000 So setting aside your views of those people, that's a material reality in the sense that it's an economic reality for people.

00:52:41.000 So I guess I'm raising a nut to sort of say, is that good or bad?

00:52:45.000 But just to say, I think that's an obstacle to wanting to migrate, you know, over to a different social platform.

00:52:52.000 So we're on, these videos are on Odyssey, they're on Rumble, they're on...

00:52:59.000 Yeah, BitChute. 1.00

00:53:00.000 And the thing about Fediverse, once you start building it out, you blast out one post to the Fediverse, and it goes to your Minds account, and your library account, and anybody else that wants to federate.

00:53:10.000 So it could blast out to your Twitter, and you could kind of centralize your own funnel.

00:53:17.000 Self-centralizing.

00:53:18.000 As this project expands, you'll have more access to bigger networks, because you'll be hitting 50 instead of 1.

00:53:28.000 So we use YouTube, but I cut down the amount of content I was producing on YouTube substantially to try and focus on building our own website so that we could have a user base there.

00:53:39.000 When we started doing the show, we were getting like 1,000 viewers or 2,000 viewers.

00:53:44.000 And if I was the kind of person who was like, we're not getting enough clicks, then we probably wouldn't be where we are.

00:53:50.000 I wanted to do the show because I had fun doing the show.

00:53:52.000 I wanted to do it.

00:53:53.000 I make YouTube videos because I have fun making videos.

00:53:55.000 I make podcasts because I have fun doing it.

00:53:57.000 If I wanted to make money, there's a bunch of other stuff I could have done.

00:53:59.000 I have friends who work for political campaigns.

00:54:02.000 I'd make way more money.

00:54:03.000 You know, I used to work in non-profit fundraising, and all of a sudden I had these people wanting to consult because I was making so much money for a lot of these companies, and I hated doing it.

00:54:12.000 It was awful.

00:54:13.000 Just selling stuff and tricking them.

00:54:15.000 And so I just stopped doing it, and then a period of things happened, Occupy happens, I start working in this, and I enjoy doing it, so I keep doing it.

00:54:23.000 When I was traveling around filming breaking news events, I don't know, sometimes you wouldn't get many views or make much money, but it was like I wanted to be there doing something.

00:54:31.000 So it's true, there are a lot of people who are driven by a desire for ego, and that's why you get the New York City establishment media, because these are people who are like, I'm a worthless human being, but if I get hired by the New York Times, then people will think I'm cool.

00:54:44.000 There you go.

00:54:45.000 Yeah, I mean, I just I think there's that.

00:54:47.000 But there's just also a lot of people like, you know, for like, a lot of people like Twitter is too complex.

00:54:53.000 And Facebook is like, about where a lot I mean, it's the Facebook is where a lot of people have arrived.

00:54:59.000 And it's hard to see them.

00:55:00.000 It's older adding apps using apps.

00:55:02.000 It's true.

00:55:03.000 Although, yeah, the young people are on TikTok.

00:55:05.000 Yeah, although I even see young people just reducing their social media platforms to Instagram.

00:55:10.000 You know, and so the idea that we're going to go and make that work more complex for people and that we're going to get mass uptake of it, I'm skeptical of.

00:55:19.000 You need to simplify it.

00:55:20.000 It needs to be as easy to use or easier than whatever's out there right now.

00:55:24.000 No, I disagree.

00:55:26.000 So we're not making modular without without calling out any individual

00:55:30.000 company.

00:55:30.000 I can just tell you the strategy used by social media companies to become big is

00:55:36.000 so obvious and ridiculously easy.

00:55:39.000 It's simple what they've done again, not naming any individual company, but more

00:55:44.000 than one is they'll create an app.

00:55:46.000 They'll advertise it to high school kids.

00:55:49.000 They will then give those high school kids fake followers quickly.

00:55:53.000 And they will give them fake likes, and they will give them fake comments.

00:55:56.000 And then all of a sudden, you have a new app called SuperWeb.

00:56:01.000 And some kid shows up to his school, and they're like, where do I follow you?

00:56:04.000 Oh, dude, I'm on SuperWeb.

00:56:05.000 And they're like, what's that?

00:56:07.000 You're not on SuperWeb?

00:56:08.000 I already got 10,000 followers.

00:56:09.000 And they go, Dude, Jon's got 10,000 followers and they all want to download it because they all want followers too.

00:56:16.000 A bunch of companies have done this.

00:56:18.000 Some people have admitted to doing things like this.

00:56:21.000 I think it was Alexis Ohanian who said that in the early days of Reddit, it was him and Steve Huffman pretending to be different people to make it seem like the site had users.

00:56:29.000 Otherwise, no one would want to be there.

00:56:31.000 Bigger companies discovered this and started convincing young people they had followers.

00:56:38.000 And then all of a sudden, what happens?

00:56:39.000 Like you mentioned, having that follower count matters to people.

00:56:42.000 So if someone's on Twitter with 3,000 followers, and then they download this new SuperWeb app, and within two weeks they have 10,000, they abandon Twitter, switch to SuperWeb because that's where their core audience is, so they think.

00:56:55.000 All of a sudden now, they're not producing content on other platforms.

00:56:57.000 They talk to people, where can I find you?

00:56:59.000 Oh, I'm on SuperWeb, I'm getting way more views, way more traffic.

00:57:02.000 That then drives a mass exodus because people think, you know, FOMO.

00:57:07.000 I'm gonna go to the other platform, A couple new apps have used this strategy very, very effectively.

00:57:13.000 And I actually had this conversation with some political groups about wanting to do an app like this.

00:57:20.000 This is like seven years ago.

00:57:22.000 And it's painfully obvious how it works.

00:57:26.000 So if you really want to play those games and do that, cheaters win.

00:57:31.000 But it seems like it's not.

00:57:31.000 I mean, if there's a bunch of new challengers, they haven't really risen to the level of an Instagram or a Twitter or Facebook.

00:57:39.000 TikTok has.

00:57:39.000 TikTok took over.

00:57:40.000 TikTok did.

00:57:41.000 You're right.

00:57:41.000 I mean, I even find myself just being like, I should post that in LinkedIn, but it's like, why bother?

00:57:47.000 You know what I mean?

00:57:47.000 You get some more views, but who cares?

00:57:48.000 There's diminishing returns so often on these platforms.

00:57:52.000 It's one of the reasons why we thought we need to build our own website up.

00:57:55.000 We can't just keep being a background actor for someone else's website.

00:57:59.000 We need our own platform.

00:58:00.000 It's an indication that there's a monopoly.

00:58:01.000 And that's a big problem.

00:58:03.000 We've been tossing around ways to break it up.

00:58:06.000 It's an oligopoly.

00:58:07.000 It sure is.

00:58:08.000 It's not just one company.

00:58:09.000 It's a cabal.

00:58:10.000 I don't think that splitting Facebook into five different companies at this point, WhatsApp, Instagram, Facebook Prime, Facebook Messenger, and whatever else they got.

00:58:18.000 I don't think that that's going to work because Zuck's still going to have all the code and he's still going to control it all.

00:58:22.000 But I've tossed around the idea of freeing software code for any social media network that gets over like a billion users a day or a hundred million users a day or something.

00:58:30.000 I treat it as part of the commons.

00:58:31.000 I disagree with you, Ian, because we had MySpace. 0.98

00:58:35.000 It came and went all because people said I had enough of this crap.

00:58:37.000 MySpace actually in 2007, I think I was using it heavily with YouTube and blogging, but then their site started to grind to a halt for like 30 days.

00:58:46.000 You couldn't use the site either because mismanagement on their end.

00:58:49.000 It was before AWS, before you could like had elastic server space.

00:58:54.000 So I think they just couldn't handle the load.

00:58:55.000 And then Facebook was there.

00:58:56.000 Everyone went to Facebook.

00:58:58.000 Look at Parler.

00:58:58.000 Parler started taking off and then the cabal came and shot him down.

00:59:01.000 The government shot him down.

00:59:02.000 Alex Jones was wildly popular and the cabal came and went after him and nuked him.

00:59:07.000 As a cascade, they all banned him around the same exact time.

00:59:09.000 So what's the solution to that?

00:59:11.000 Oh, man.

00:59:13.000 Potential regulation.

00:59:15.000 Look at Alex Jones.

00:59:16.000 Some people love him.

00:59:17.000 Some people hate him.

00:59:17.000 But if you look at the amount of views he has, he built his own platform.

00:59:21.000 He's doing pretty well.

00:59:22.000 Oh, yeah.

00:59:23.000 And the dude's still great on the radio. 0.98

00:59:25.000 He's still kicking butt.

00:59:26.000 So there's a lot of different alternatives.

00:59:28.000 And we have to remember that these social media platforms are only as popular as we make them.

00:59:33.000 So, they're only prominent if we make them prominent.

00:59:35.000 And at the end of the day, we have to understand that they're fake.

00:59:37.000 They're creating a perception of reality that's not true.

00:59:40.000 It's a bunch of people controlling people's minds by curating the algorithm, curating the timeline, curating what they see, and manipulating them for their own personal benefit.

00:59:49.000 As soon as people snap out of this psychosis, they'll understand that, wow, there's other alternatives out there.

00:59:55.000 The internet was once great, and free, and amazing, and incredible, and you could find exactly what you subscribe to.

01:00:01.000 You can't do that anymore.

01:00:03.000 Building up your own website, what Tim did with Timcast, I got my own website with Luke Uncensored, is essentially really incredibly important.

01:00:11.000 Alex Jones has, I think, Band.Video, and there's other people who are Deplatform that have their own platforms, their own website, their own video services, and they're kicking butt.

01:00:20.000 And they have something that social media doesn't have and that's authenticity and people who actually do want to listen to it.

01:00:27.000 So one of the issues, you know, that started this conversation was that CNN might not be as prominent anymore.

01:00:34.000 YouTube still puts them on the front page.

01:00:37.000 If you open a brand new computer, pull up YouTube, you'll be like, what reality is this?

01:00:43.000 Because it's crazy.

01:00:44.000 But CNN, CBS, ABC, all of these establishment media organizations that are wrong a substantial amount of time are given preferential access and they're all thumbs down.

01:00:54.000 People despise this content, but it's there in front of your face.

01:00:58.000 So it's quite amazing when you have on top of that, you also have a lot of progressive YouTubers who also get things Very, very wrong on basic facts for tribal partisan reasons. 0.99

01:01:11.000 I don't got a problem if your opinion is Trump sucks. 0.81

01:01:14.000 I got a problem if you're like, Donald Trump did X and he didn't. 0.97

01:01:17.000 Or, you know, for example, David Pakman, shout out, he said Donald Trump encouraged his Republicans not to vote, which is just flat out not true.

01:01:25.000 So, but I get it.

01:01:26.000 Look, we probably make mistakes as well.

01:01:27.000 I can't blame him for, you know, having an error.

01:01:29.000 But he doesn't, he's, there's a lot of people that just recite what they see on mainstream media.

01:01:35.000 Hey, I got another shout-out for David Pakman.

01:01:37.000 When, I think it was, who was it?

01:01:39.000 Chuck Todd, maybe?

01:01:40.000 Meet the Press?

01:01:41.000 Ask Ted Cruz if he thought Ukraine meddled in the election in 2016.

01:01:47.000 And Ted Cruz was like, Politico reported it and so did the New York Times.

01:01:51.000 And then they start laughing on MSNBC, just laughing.

01:01:54.000 And then David Pakman runs that clip and just agrees that without any level of fact-checking at all.

01:02:00.000 For us, I actually think we have like eight or nine reporters who do the actual legwork and make the phone calls.

01:02:07.000 I make phone calls all the time to try and fact check things.

01:02:09.000 One of the best stories I think was Mayo Gate, where Democrats ran a story claiming that mayonnaise, that a restaurant was lying about the cost of mayonnaise to make Biden look bad, when in reality they were telling the truth.

01:02:20.000 Mayonnaise was up like hundreds of dollars per week for this restaurant.

01:02:24.000 So, when you have a mainstream media that doesn't fact-check in lies, then you have a progressive and establishment YouTube presence from independent alternative creators who also just regurgitate those lies, it's a very serious uphill battle.

01:02:36.000 And then, taking into consideration that YouTube will prop up, The Young Turks, for instance, are on YouTube TV, and one of my favorite segments they've done was when we had a conversation on this show about Republicans being more attractive than Democrats.

01:02:50.000 And it was, or I should say liberals versus conservatives.

01:02:53.000 There were like five studies we went over that said, why are conservatives typically considered more attractive than liberals are?

01:02:59.000 And I said, because of attractive privilege.

01:03:02.000 People who grow up, who are beautiful, are treated better and then say to themselves, if I could do it, why can't you?

01:03:07.000 Well, you were treated better.

01:03:08.000 You had an easier life.

01:03:10.000 The Young Turks ran a segment saying that I was wrong, I was ugly, posting pictures of me and insulting my appearance, and then ultimately conceded, well, actually, I was right and the studies are true. 1.00

01:03:20.000 That goes up on YouTube TV.

01:03:22.000 That's what's propped up.

01:03:23.000 So we may have a big show.

01:03:26.000 Joe may have a big show.

01:03:27.000 It's still every day struggling against hundreds of millions of views that CNN has given, just given.

01:03:36.000 So, if you go to, like, CNN's YouTube analytics, you can see they get 100 to 200 million views per month.

01:03:42.000 Oh, I totally agree.

01:03:43.000 50?

01:03:43.000 I mean, my whole book, Apocalypse Never, and also San Francisco, are basically debunkings of what's been in the New York Times and on CNN around climate change, plastic waste, extinctions, drug addiction, homelessness, housing, the whole thing.

01:03:57.000 The question is, what do you do about it?

01:03:58.000 You know, I mean, I thought it was, I mean, I was very disturbed that Twitter can remove a sitting president of the United States from its platform.

01:04:05.000 And ban a breaking news story about Hunter Biden.

01:04:08.000 And then you get Andy Stone from Facebook coming out and saying, we have deranked this story so it's harder to share.

01:04:13.000 Right.

01:04:13.000 It was all true.

01:04:15.000 Right.

01:04:15.000 So what do you do about that?

01:04:16.000 I mean, I come out of the energy, I have a lot of background in energy.

01:04:20.000 We had a regulated utility model in the electricity sector that we then experimented with not doing, starting in the early 2000s.

01:04:29.000 And when you look at the performance of a regulated utility model, monopoly utility, versus the unregulated model, most of us in the space go, the regulated monopoly utility model worked better.

01:04:42.000 This is totally different, obviously.

01:04:44.000 This is not utilities or trains or electric utilities.

01:04:47.000 This is information.

01:04:49.000 Yeah.

01:04:50.000 You need to free the software code.

01:04:51.000 I don't know if need is the right word, but if you could force federate these companies so that you could interoperate with them.

01:04:57.000 Force federate is a good idea. 0.98

01:04:58.000 And then you would destroy their share value.

01:05:00.000 Not really, because they make ad revenue.

01:05:01.000 No, their money is off of ads, which they'll still make.

01:05:04.000 I mean, Facebook killed—under Obama, they killed this very modest legislation to regulate content, to have some government oversight of content aimed at kids, and Facebook quashed it.

01:05:15.000 They have lobbyists for each party and each branch of government.

01:05:19.000 They squash that. Those guys are just keeping a lid on anything. I don't know what the solution is,

01:05:24.000 but I thought it was interesting after Trump was taken off of Twitter, after Twitter took

01:05:27.000 him off Trump, took Trump off, that there were a number of world leaders that were like,

01:05:31.000 like, what's the deal? And I don't like if you're running for political office,

01:05:34.000 and you don't have a lot of money, and you want to be able to be able to have a voice in there,

01:05:37.000 I don't think it's I don't think it's good enough to be like, hey, I'm not on Facebook,

01:05:41.000 but go to johnsmith.com and check out my platform. That's just not going to cut it

01:05:45.000 in today's environment. Actually, I think Ian may have just solved everything. Forced federation.

01:05:50.000 So what does that mean?

01:05:51.000 It means that you can make your own server, your own website, and then someone on Facebook can follow you on your site.

01:05:58.000 Now Facebook can still ban you from their platform, but your platform never gets shut down.

01:06:03.000 So you may lose access to Facebook's user base, but you will keep your platform and your followers can still choose to follow you because it's your website.

01:06:12.000 What concerns me is if the banks start to, like the Swift payment system wants to cancel you, that's very concerning.

01:06:17.000 We still have crypto, but it's not quite implemented yet.

01:06:20.000 And if the ISP wants to cut off your access to the internet, that's really concerning to me too.

01:06:25.000 I know we have like Starlink coming out, Elon's thing, but that's, Elon owns that as far as I know.

01:06:30.000 So we maybe utilitize that as well.

01:06:33.000 Imagine if Twitter was, by regulation, these companies were opened up to the federated network.

01:06:39.000 Is that like, would that be like net neutrality?

01:06:42.000 know, or Tim at Twitter dot com, TimCast at Twitter dot com and then get my feed on that

01:06:45.000 website and I could be like, well, I still have the bulk of my followers on Twitter,

01:06:49.000 so I'll post here.

01:06:50.000 But now anyone from any other site can choose to just see my tweets.

01:06:54.000 Is that like net, would that be like net neutrality?

01:06:56.000 Is that the same thing as platform neutrality?

01:06:58.000 No, net neutrality is about restricting access based on how much you pay, essentially.

01:07:03.000 The idea behind net neutrality was that you can't pay for faster access to certain websites.

01:07:09.000 So that whole thing was one of the most ridiculous political battles that made no sense, and I'm pretty sure you ask most people, they're not going to be able to tell you what it means, or what side won with what.

01:07:20.000 But under that model, let's say I wanted to follow a John Smith candidate for mayor of my hometown.

01:07:26.000 You could follow him, you're saying, through Twitter, but you couldn't see him have an argument with other candidates on Twitter.

01:07:32.000 Well, you'd have to mandate it then.

01:07:33.000 I mean, the government would have to require that.

01:07:35.000 No, no, what do you mean?

01:07:37.000 Well, in other words, if Twitter wants to say John Smith can't be on Twitter, even though he's a candidate for mayor of Denver, because we don't like what he said, John Smith has no recourse right now.

01:07:49.000 The problem is that Twitter dominates the political space, the political conversation, and Facebook and YouTube very much this cabal in Silicon Valley does.

01:07:58.000 And so they can pick winners and losers.

01:08:01.000 Facebook actually did experiments on people where they showed them certain content to see if they would be happy or sad.

01:08:06.000 Sure enough, showing sad content made people sad.

01:08:08.000 Well, I think it was Steve Huffman of Reddit who said, we could swing an election if we really wanted to.

01:08:14.000 Oh, sure.

01:08:14.000 They know they can, and they probably do.

01:08:17.000 But what if you just kept the candidate off of all the platforms?

01:08:21.000 As far as I can tell, that's not violating any laws.

01:08:24.000 Like Twitter, Google, Facebook can keep John Smith, mayoral candidate of Denver, off of all their platforms.

01:08:31.000 This is the funny thing.

01:08:32.000 I mean, that's like, that's terrifying.

01:08:34.000 The funny thing, the right is just so bad at this.

01:08:37.000 It's amazing.

01:08:38.000 Like, when there are some individuals running for office, but they're banned from Twitter, and so then Twitter says, like, you're not allowed to have a presence, it's like, create a super PAC.

01:08:46.000 Or, you know, not even a super PAC, create a PAC, a political action committee, and you'll call it, like, you know, John Smith for Congress PAC.

01:08:53.000 and it's not run by the candidate, and then you can absolutely advocate for him.

01:08:56.000 If we were to say the candidate can't be on the platform, all that would happen is

01:08:59.000 Democratic groups would set up PACs and they would still get favorable treatment.

01:09:05.000 So Twitter would be like, we're not going to ban the PAC for, you know, Joe Biden,

01:09:09.000 but that Donald Trump one, that's offensive. So you're gone.

01:09:12.000 There's no real way to ban politics.

01:09:15.000 What if John Smith is running for president on a platform to regulate the internet companies?

01:09:20.000 They'll destroy him.

01:09:21.000 And then they were just like, they were like, well, he's not gonna be on the platform.

01:09:24.000 I mean, what does that do to American democracy?

01:09:26.000 Oh, that's exactly where we are right now.

01:09:27.000 It's definitely not democratic. 0.79

01:09:28.000 They're corporate fascists.

01:09:32.000 Right now I struggle with this.

01:09:33.000 Every, all these websites, Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube have like a clause in their terms to say we can ban anyone at any time for no reason.

01:09:40.000 Right.

01:09:40.000 So I don't want to legislate their terms of service.

01:09:43.000 I find that fascist.

01:09:44.000 If we use the government to decide what their terms, that's why I think we need the software code freed so that other people could spin up an identical copy of Twitter with access to all the Twitter info on their version of it.

01:09:55.000 And then they could make their own terms of service.

01:09:58.000 And then you'd start to have a market of terms as opposed to a market of who has the best code.

01:10:02.000 That's just too communist for me though.

01:10:04.000 Seizing the work and the intellectual property of a company.

01:10:07.000 Antitrust is kinda communist.

01:10:09.000 Well, regulation isn't communism, right?

01:10:11.000 Not everything is communism.

01:10:12.000 Seizing the means of production from a company to distribute among the masses is pretty communist.

01:10:17.000 I'm not going to take their servers, but the code isn't really the means of production.

01:10:20.000 I mean, the electric utility model is that electric utilities were allowed to make a certain amount of profits a year, and that was it.

01:10:27.000 And they had to get permission to raise electrical rates.

01:10:30.000 The dynamic that was created is that the electric utilities would constantly try to justify expensive activities.

01:10:36.000 so they could make more money for themselves. But they're called natural monopolies,

01:10:42.000 railroads, electrical utilities, the power grid. There are some things where you kind of go,

01:10:47.000 we can't figure out how breaking that up is in anybody's interest. And so we're going to keep

01:10:53.000 it together, but regulate it. Now, I'm not sure what that looks like on the internet.

01:10:56.000 Force federation.

01:10:57.000 The code is the means of production, but I don't want to steal it.

01:11:00.000 I want to copy the production.

01:11:02.000 No, it's very different.

01:11:03.000 I think very different.

01:11:04.000 I don't want to take it away from them.

01:11:05.000 I want to copy it.

01:11:06.000 If you were on Twitter, and someone on Gab could follow your Twitter account, and you could follow them on Gab, and then Twitter decides to ban you, well, you chose to be on Twitter.

01:11:15.000 But these other platforms still exist.

01:11:19.000 Ultimately, the idea I see for how we solve this is, with what we're building with the Fediverse project, you can set up your own website, have your own social media feed and subscription service, and people can follow you through any Fediverse network that supports it.

01:11:37.000 No one can ban you because it's your website.

01:11:39.000 So then your followers will just be following you.

01:11:42.000 I mean, if you look at how email works, like newsletters, I have a huge list of email accounts, and then I can email them, no one can ban you from that, ever.

01:11:51.000 Because if they delete your email account, you can make a new email account and be like, hey guys, here's another email.

01:11:55.000 I created a new account.

01:11:56.000 So no matter what network I'm on, I can subscribe to Tim at Timcast, from my Twitter, from my YouTube, from Facebook, from Mindsgap, and then if Twitter wants to ban Timcast, then I can still, you still have all your stuff.

01:12:06.000 That's excellent.

01:12:07.000 And you can go on any other platform and see it, or go right to my website to see it.

01:12:12.000 No one will be able to ban you.

01:12:12.000 Except that the ISPs can blockade your website.

01:12:15.000 That's weird.

01:12:15.000 Yep, yep, yep.

01:12:16.000 There's many links in that chain that can be broken.

01:12:16.000 It's not perfect.

01:12:21.000 Well, there you go.

01:12:22.000 Under-theorized is my view.

01:12:24.000 I think you're right when you said that conservatives haven't done a very good job thinking about it.

01:12:28.000 I interviewed one guy who did a piece for Harvard Business Review on this, proposing a sort of regulated utility model, but it's complicated.

01:12:35.000 It's much more simple to do this with an electric utility or railroad than it is with information.

01:12:40.000 Well, also the lobbies that they have are also very big, very powerful.

01:12:44.000 They have a lot of influence.

01:12:45.000 They buy it.

01:12:46.000 They work hand-in-hand.

01:12:48.000 I think the government created this problem.

01:12:50.000 And I think the problems that are created by big tech social media directly help the government in many different ways.

01:12:56.000 Well, think about it.

01:12:56.000 Like, the funny thing is when they were seeking to regulate the, like, you know, when they were, like, regulating the railroad industry or the electric utility industry, the railroad and electric utility industry didn't also control the newspapers.

01:13:07.000 Exactly.

01:13:08.000 That's what we're talking about here.

01:13:09.000 And so how do you even have a debate about this?

01:13:12.000 Zuckerberg's the real president.

01:13:13.000 Maybe you could mesh network all the server space so like everyone would have a server in their house and so all my website would be on my server and on your server and on your server.

01:13:21.000 So if one of us goes down because Verizon wants to cut us off or so there's no real web host or either because the web host can knock your website off.

01:13:29.000 This is like Revenge of the Nerds meets 1984 come together.

01:13:33.000 And this is the reality that we're living in, where unelected, shadowy, secretive nerds are literally calling the shots, creating culture, dominating and controlling people's minds in so many different ways, in so many different aspects, and there's no way to even have any accountability here.

01:13:51.000 Here's a story that I love, and maybe you guys heard me talk about it before.

01:13:56.000 Michael, did you know that... Let me ask you a question.

01:13:59.000 Do you have a Facebook profile?

01:14:00.000 I do.

01:14:01.000 Do you know... Is someone in your family... Have they not signed up for Facebook?

01:14:05.000 Not a single one.

01:14:06.000 They all have a Facebook.

01:14:06.000 Everybody has Facebook.

01:14:07.000 Do you know anyone who hasn't signed up for Facebook?

01:14:11.000 I do not.

01:14:11.000 Really?

01:14:12.000 Everyone you know?

01:14:13.000 Well, I mean, I haven't asked them all.

01:14:15.000 What if I told you that regardless of whether or not you sign up, you do have a Facebook profile?

01:14:21.000 That would both blow my mind and not be surprising at the same time.

01:14:26.000 Here's how it works.

01:14:27.000 So you have Facebook Messenger?

01:14:29.000 Yes.

01:14:30.000 And when you sign in it says sync your contacts with your phone?

01:14:33.000 There you go.

01:14:33.000 Uh huh.

01:14:34.000 Yeah.

01:14:34.000 Did you do that?

01:14:35.000 So here's what happens.

01:14:36.000 They're called shadow profiles.

01:14:37.000 So you have stored in your phone a number that probably says mom.

01:14:41.000 I don't know.

01:14:41.000 Maybe the kind of guy who calls her mother.

01:14:42.000 I don't know.

01:14:43.000 I actually do that.

01:14:44.000 that word and the phone number because I don't think you're going to put your mom as like

01:14:47.000 Janet.

01:14:48.000 I don't know your mom's name.

01:14:49.000 I actually do that.

01:14:50.000 Oh, you do.

01:14:51.000 You put your mom's full name in.

01:14:52.000 I put my mom's actual name.

01:14:53.000 Yeah.

01:14:54.000 So either way, it still works.

01:14:55.000 But here's what happens.

01:14:57.000 You'll sync your account, your contacts.

01:14:59.000 Let's say your mom never signed up.

01:15:01.000 They now see Facebook sees a list of phone numbers and they see, you know, 555-1234 and

01:15:07.000 Janice.

01:15:08.000 They then see, you have any siblings?

01:15:10.000 Yes.

01:15:11.000 Alright, so sibling A signs up, but they do say mom.

01:15:14.000 Now they know Janice is actually the mother of John.

01:15:18.000 Right.

01:15:19.000 John is the brother of Michael.

01:15:22.000 Now your mom has a profile that lists your kids.

01:15:24.000 Lists her phone number.

01:15:26.000 They can collect little bits of information from every Facebook profile to build what's called a shadow profile.

01:15:31.000 Now they know who your mom is, where she lives, how old she is.

01:15:33.000 They know what she's talking about.

01:15:35.000 And yes, the best part is they know when you poop.

01:15:38.000 Facebook's system has so much information on you, they can actually predict when you will go to the bathroom.

01:15:44.000 They can actually, I don't know if you've ever seen the ads, but I remember I was on Messenger and an ad popped up in Messenger about like food network or something.

01:15:53.000 As I was talking to somebody about something, like about to, like I didn't actually say anything and we were talking about it.

01:16:00.000 People have all these stories all day and night where it's like, I remember I went to Walmart and they had a big thing of TVs in the middle of the aisle.

01:16:08.000 They were on sale.

01:16:09.000 When I got home and went to my computer, there was an ad for the exact photo of the stack of TVs at the Walmart and I went, What the?

01:16:18.000 Like, are they spying on me?

01:16:20.000 Are they listening?

01:16:21.000 Everybody thinks they're listening.

01:16:22.000 That's not it.

01:16:24.000 They have all of these data points, which allow them to predict your behaviors.

01:16:28.000 They knew where I lived.

01:16:30.000 They knew the stuff I'd been talking about.

01:16:32.000 They easily said, this guy needs a TV.

01:16:34.000 Or, this is the kind of guy, like, we didn't actually buy, actually, no, we did buy a TV.

01:16:38.000 That's, yeah.

01:16:39.000 And so, they advertised this stack of TVs from the exact Walmart to us.

01:16:44.000 And yet they still won't tell me when my favorite bands are coming to town.

01:16:47.000 I mean, after like a decade of that, we still don't know when my favorite bands are coming to town.

01:16:51.000 Well, is the band paying them money?

01:16:53.000 Probably not.

01:16:53.000 Exactly.

01:16:54.000 So they will tell you, you know, they'll give you recommended restaurants.

01:16:59.000 So it's really amazing when they have location data and map data, and they can see where you work, the proximity to what restaurants that exist.

01:17:08.000 They can tell if you're fit.

01:17:09.000 They can tell how many steps you take.

01:17:10.000 And then they say, this is a guy who likes to walk.

01:17:13.000 The computer just calculates it.

01:17:15.000 So he's gonna, he could choose any one of these restaurants.

01:17:18.000 Now let's say you are sedentary, lazy, never move.

01:17:20.000 They would probably just be like, we predict he's gonna go next door for a burger.

01:17:23.000 And because it's the easiest path.

01:17:25.000 There's a million and one different reasons.

01:17:27.000 You know, they know everything about you.

01:17:28.000 They know your address.

01:17:29.000 They know your location.

01:17:30.000 They know where the closest murder burger is right next to you.

01:17:33.000 They know what you buy.

01:17:34.000 I mean, everything is interconnected and they sell your data like entrepreneurial drug dealers. 0.94

01:17:39.000 And they sell it to the creepiest, sleaziest, nastiest, disgusting entities out there that are willing to do anything for a buck. 0.93

01:17:47.000 And they do. 0.95

01:17:48.000 Here's the best part.

01:17:49.000 I don't know which company it was, but the companies that take your DNA and then they'll send it back like a medical report or history.

01:17:57.000 And then they were like, we'll never sell your data.

01:17:59.000 But then the company got bought.

01:18:01.000 Right.

01:18:01.000 People should get paid for their data, perhaps.

01:18:03.000 Something that a good, really smart friend of mine from Naval Intelligence keeps telling me is that we should at least get a large percentage of our data when Facebook sells it.

01:18:12.000 They're making a lot of money off that stuff.

01:18:14.000 Let's at least get one conversation going about what's going on in San Francisco, because we have this story from SFGate.

01:18:22.000 Car break-ins in San Francisco are rampant.

01:18:24.000 Will a $100,000 reward help?

01:18:28.000 You know what I love about this?

01:18:29.000 Let me read.

01:18:29.000 They say, on Tuesday morning, Mayor London Breed announced a new privately funded reward of up to $100,000 leading to the arrest and conviction of individuals involved in organized crime rings, which the mayor's office says fuels automobile burglaries.

01:18:42.000 The reward is funded by private donors in the hospitality and tourism industry.

01:18:46.000 Wow!

01:18:47.000 Per a press release.

01:18:48.000 The mayor's office did not immediately return a request for more information about these private donors.

01:18:53.000 So, San Francisco has become this nightmare dystopia of failed policy, oligarchs funding bounties.

01:19:03.000 I have to imagine the $100,000 could just go to like, I don't know, hiring police?

01:19:08.000 Yeah, I mean, this is this is a disturbing trend.

01:19:11.000 It's also rise of private security in San Francisco has been very prominent.

01:19:15.000 We're in a huge crisis of morale with the police that's been there ever since last summer.

01:19:21.000 And it's resulting in greater homicides and greater crime overall.

01:19:24.000 And, you know, one of the interesting questions I had when I was working on San Francisco was because so much of what is justified in San Francisco in terms of open air drug use, public defecation, public camping, These things are defended as ways of not blaming the victim, helping the victim.

01:19:44.000 So one question is why would then do progressive support policies that end up creating so many more victims?

01:19:49.000 And the answer, it turns out, is that progressives are really focused on saving the victims of the system.

01:19:56.000 They're not.

01:19:57.000 So this is why, you know, 30 times more African-Americans are killed by civilians than by police officers.

01:20:02.000 So why the disproportionate attention on police killings?

01:20:06.000 Because those are killings by people that are perceived as the system.

01:20:09.000 So progressive, you know, the word progressive really was a way to both change, move away from the word liberal, which was demonized in the late 1980s.

01:20:17.000 It was also, though, a way to kind of unite both the radical left and more moderate liberals.

01:20:25.000 But one of the things that it inherited is this idea that the system itself is evil and corrupt, and that we should only care and make a big deal out of the victims of that system.

01:20:36.000 And so you just see all these efforts to basically do anything other than do what needs to be done, which is restore confidence in the institutions of civilization, in the institutions of the so-called system.

01:20:48.000 You, I guess, I don't know if... Well, I'll just ask.

01:20:52.000 You used to be, I guess, a lefty, leftist, or liberal.

01:20:55.000 How would you describe yourself?

01:20:57.000 Yeah, I would have described myself as radical left, certainly in the 90s.

01:21:02.000 I worked on... And now you're far right, of course.

01:21:06.000 I'm here, aren't I?

01:21:08.000 Yeah, I worked on environmental causes, climate change.

01:21:13.000 I worked on criminal justice issues in the 1990s.

01:21:16.000 There's some people in the comment section saying that you are connected to Soros, George Soros.

01:21:20.000 Is that true?

01:21:21.000 Yeah, I worked for George Soros' funded organizations, but also his foundation itself, the Open Society Institute.

01:21:29.000 Was it impactful for your political ideology?

01:21:29.000 How was that?

01:21:33.000 Can you speak to that a little bit?

01:21:34.000 Because I'm getting a lot of comments about that in the comment section.

01:21:37.000 Yeah, so we have to remember in the late 80s and 1990s we're coming out of a big war on drugs and a widely held view that we had overreacted to things like crack and that what we should have been doing is drug treatment, is mandating rehab rather than sending guys off to the prisons for decades.

01:22:00.000 And that's still mostly a view I hold.

01:22:02.000 There was also other things going on.

01:22:04.000 There was liberalization of opioid pharmaceuticals because it was viewed as we were under treating pain.

01:22:09.000 And then we were also promoting the decriminalization of marijuana, which we viewed as a relatively benign drug, particularly in comparison to alcohol and cigarettes.

01:22:18.000 And then also we were advocating for providing clean needles to addicts because it would way to stop HIV AIDS transmissions.

01:22:24.000 When I got out of that work around the year 2000, my understanding was that we were seeking to make drug rehabilitation, including work, including taking your psychiatric meds, doing what you need to do to live a healthy life.

01:22:41.000 My understanding was that we were going to continue to mandate those things as an alternative to prison.

01:22:46.000 What ended up happening, not in a single law, but in a set of laws and ballot initiatives, is that we basically just said, no, we've decriminalized stealing $950 worth of items from Walgreens.

01:22:58.000 We've decriminalized 3 grams of hard drugs.

01:23:01.000 That was in the same ballot initiative I voted for.

01:23:03.000 62% of Californians voted for Prop 47 in the year 2014.

01:23:08.000 But you put those two things together, decriminalizing three grams of fentanyl and meth, and stealing $950 worth of items, and you get, yes, organized crime, but crimes that are being committed to feed people's addictions.

01:23:25.000 I hear it all the time from the progressives, there are more empty houses than homeless people.

01:23:29.000 Having actually worked with homeless shelters, more than one, you learn a lot about why people are homeless, and it's not this fantasy idea of people being like, pardon me, sir, I'm desperate for a place to live.

01:23:43.000 It's actually people who are like, get away from me, I want to be homeless, and they're drinking.

01:23:48.000 And you try and be nice, respectful, you try to help people, but a lot of them, you know, outside of mental illness, there are people who are literally like, don't come near me or else.

01:23:57.000 Yeah, you got it.

01:23:58.000 I mean, basically what happens is in the 1980s, you see multiple things going on, but basically you have a crack epidemic, which is really crack and alcohol.

01:24:08.000 Those are the two drugs that would get paired a lot.

01:24:11.000 Resulting in homelessness, meaning that people would be – they would quit their jobs and dedicate their day hours to their addictions.

01:24:19.000 They would then disaffiliate.

01:24:21.000 This is the academic word, disaffiliation.

01:24:23.000 They would basically become alienated from friends and family who they had stolen from or borrowed money from and finally friends and family are like, you got to leave.

01:24:30.000 They're kicking you out.

01:24:31.000 So you basically – that is how people became homeless.

01:24:35.000 There was also then deinstitutionalization of our psychiatric hospitals.

01:24:39.000 A lot of those folks were dumped on the streets.

01:24:41.000 So that was what was going on in the 80s.

01:24:43.000 The radical left, really working with liberals, basically said the problem with these folks is that they don't have housing.

01:24:51.000 And there was always a move for socialized housing and basically free public housing.

01:24:57.000 So they literally invented this propaganda word.

01:25:00.000 There's no other way to say it.

01:25:02.000 Homelessness itself is a propaganda word designed to trick your brain into putting people with totally different problems in the same category, including people with schizophrenia, people with a heroin problem, and the proverbial mother escaping an abusive husband.

01:25:18.000 The mother escaping the abusive husband who doesn't have a drug or alcohol problem and is not mentally ill, we do a great job of helping that woman.

01:25:25.000 That's not a problem.

01:25:27.000 Okay.

01:25:28.000 The person with schizophrenia and the person with an addiction, those folks on the street, that's a huge problem.

01:25:35.000 Both for them, it's immoral the way we treat them, but also it degrades the fabric of a city.

01:25:41.000 Do you think living in San Francisco led to kind of a political transition for you?

01:25:46.000 And are there any kind of policies you advocated for under the kind of Soros influence that you kind of regret now?

01:25:55.000 Great question.

01:25:57.000 I have become more conservative around drugs and alcohol.

01:26:06.000 I still support the decriminalization of marijuana, but I would like to see it more heavily regulated.

01:26:11.000 I still support alcohol being legal, but I actually come to see things like not being able to buy it at the grocery store, not being able to buy it on Sunday.

01:26:19.000 Things that restrict consumption I think is good.

01:26:24.000 Psychedelics, I worry that we're just diving headlong into basically decriminalizing psychedelics without any thought about what the implications of that are.

01:26:33.000 You know, when in the 90s, I still remember very vividly being in progressive non-profits.

01:26:39.000 It was Global Exchange in San Francisco, Brain Force Action Network.

01:26:41.000 We all hung out together.

01:26:42.000 And the homeless advocates struck me as – it just struck me as bizarre because I always knew just because I was pretty street savvy even in my 20s because I had done a fair amount of just traveling and I talked to people.

01:26:56.000 I just knew that these folks were addicts and that they had mental illness.

01:27:00.000 And so this sort of, the kind of emotional defense of the right of these people to sleep on the sidewalks, I always sort of viewed as bizarre.

01:27:08.000 Like it never made any sense to me.

01:27:10.000 Still to this day, you'll see progressives, high profile YouTubers posting things like, that's proof of the dysfunctional nature of capitalism.

01:27:19.000 And I'm like, someone saying they don't want to be in a building is not anything to do with capitalism.

01:27:24.000 at all. Well, it's sad too. I mean, these are often what they're, they're defending the right

01:27:28.000 of psychotic people in psychotic states, whether from underlying schizophrenia or from heavy meth

01:27:33.000 use, it always manifests the same way. Defending, you know, we don't, we don't let grandma with

01:27:38.000 dementia and Alzheimer's live on the street. So why do we do that with people in a psychotic state?

01:27:43.000 Well, let's take their argument where they say there are more empty houses than homeless people.

01:27:47.000 Do we just take a, you know, 30 year old schizophrenic man, put him in a house and say, have a nice day? 0.69

01:27:53.000 What do you think would happen to that person in that house?

01:27:55.000 If we just put, they have no food.

01:27:57.000 They have, how are they going to afford utilities?

01:27:59.000 How are they going to maintain the building?

01:28:00.000 What's going to happen to it?

01:28:01.000 Well, we know.

01:28:02.000 I mean, we've actually been doing an ongoing experiments on this question.

01:28:06.000 And then we had a big one during covid because we had to because they reduced the shelter population and they people in hotels, the hotel.

01:28:13.000 First of all, a lot of people died because there wasn't another user with them to revive them with Narcan after they overdosed.

01:28:20.000 It's multifactorial, obviously.

01:28:22.000 We're also dealing with a fentanyl epidemic, which is incredibly deadly.

01:28:28.000 So first, that happened.

01:28:29.000 I mean, the propaganda has been—and this is the propaganda coming from the big foundations, Rockefeller, but it also comes from Malcolm Gladwell at the New Yorker, and it also came from George W. Bush in the early 2000s, which was just give people housing.

01:28:44.000 That's the cure.

01:28:46.000 The evidence was never there for any of it.

01:28:48.000 In fact, it doesn't over at Harvard just published a major study on this over a 12-year period

01:28:53.000 Those folks do not retain their housing any better than anybody else does

01:28:58.000 But it doesn't do anything to address the underlying causes of homelessness, which are mostly addiction untreated

01:29:03.000 mental illness There's a lot of political commentators that directly point

01:29:07.000 the finger at individuals like George Soros when they got involved in local politics

01:29:11.000 appointing DA's and implementing a lot of these policies

01:29:15.000 What's your kind of train of thought with his involvement with the things that he called for, that he paid for, that he kind of caused in major cities?

01:29:24.000 Yeah, I mean, so George Soros, his orientation is around, I would call him a left libertarian.

01:29:34.000 Left libertarian would encompass kind of the anarchists, the anarchists that took over Seattle, for example, which is something I discuss in the book.

01:29:43.000 But it also includes people like Soros.

01:29:45.000 I quote the person who worked for Soros for a long time, somebody that I knew pretty well, I've known for almost 25 years.

01:29:52.000 And he said, you know, he goes, George's view is that people should, if people want something, they should have access to it.

01:29:59.000 You know, and so it's a kind of, that's a kind of libertarian mentality.

01:30:03.000 You want heroin or fentanyl?

01:30:05.000 Well, you should be able to buy it.

01:30:06.000 Like, why should we restrict your freedom?

01:30:08.000 So that's part of it.

01:30:09.000 But then there's the more liberal or the more left part is also this idea, well, those people are probably victims too.

01:30:17.000 So there's two separate conceptual universes that are being married in this.

01:30:22.000 So it kind of goes, you want access to fentanyl and you're a victim.

01:30:26.000 And therefore we should give you whatever you want, not just the needles, but a place to sleep and we should give you medical care, but we shouldn't do anything to persuade you not to use fentanyl or meth, much less like enforce laws against you, because that would be immoral because you're a victim.

01:30:41.000 That's the basic picture.

01:30:43.000 A lot of the DAs in a lot of very important places are directly backed by him.

01:30:47.000 He gives a lot of money.

01:30:49.000 And this buys him a lot of influence.

01:30:51.000 Like in Loudoun County, a county not far away from us, where a big story broke.

01:30:57.000 Some people are being censored.

01:30:58.000 A few days ago, the prosecutor tried to give the father, who was the victim in this case, a prison sentence.

01:31:06.000 for showing up at a school board meeting and raising concerns about this.

01:31:09.000 And this prosecutor had $860,000 given to him by Soros PAC.

01:31:16.000 His name is Buta Benjari.

01:31:18.000 And he's literally implementing policy on the local level in such a way where it's extremely political, extremely divisive, a lot of times very hardened criminals get off, and a lot of people for political crimes go to jail for very hard sentences.

01:31:35.000 So that's why I was kind of hinting, and I kind of wanted to talk to you about it because you seem to have kind of experience in it.

01:31:41.000 But a lot of people are pointing to this as some of the main reasons why there's such urban decay happening all over the United States, and that's why I kind of wanted your feedback on it.

01:31:50.000 Soros has a lot to answer for. 0.92

01:31:52.000 He's supporting progressive DAs who have just clearly gone too far into victimology.

01:31:58.000 I think he's just deeply out of touch.

01:32:00.000 He's very old at this point.

01:32:02.000 I don't think he has, you know, a lot of these guys are.

01:32:05.000 Like, they don't, you know, I say that this is the edge of the problem.

01:32:08.000 Part of the problem in California is you knew, I'll describe, I would describe what I'm working on to people

01:32:12.000 that I knew.

01:32:13.000 And they go, yeah, well, that's why I don't go downtown.

01:32:17.000 And you're kind of like, yeah, but aren't we like, what about like the whole thing about how we're kind of a single community in a single country or a single city or have some, whatever happened to like brotherly love or, you know, you are your brother's keeper.

01:32:30.000 I mean, that's all gone.

01:32:31.000 It's like, or I once after the recall failed against the current governor, I tweeted out

01:32:36.000 something that was like, this is a problem because we've got this human rights crisis

01:32:41.000 on the streets.

01:32:43.000 And somebody responded by putting a picture of them in their just kind of douchey little

01:32:47.000 bicycle shorts on a bicycle, like taking a selfie of them with the Golden Gate Bridge

01:32:52.000 in the background being like, but look at how beautiful it is.

01:32:55.000 And I was like, well, yeah, my house is nice too, but like 712 people died unnecessarily

01:33:01.000 last year on the streets of San Francisco out of your supposed compassion. 0.99

01:33:04.000 So pull your head out of your ass and let's do something about this as opposed to just being like, I don't go downtown. 0.99

01:33:11.000 When I went to Sweden several years ago, you know, Donald Trump goes on TV, says last night in Sweden and then created this huge thing. 1.00

01:33:16.000 So I was like, I'll go there.

01:33:18.000 We went to a place called Rinkeby.

01:33:20.000 Initially, everything was fine.

01:33:22.000 We went to Rosengard, and they were like, it's dangerous, but it was fine.

01:33:25.000 In Rinkeby, in the middle of the day at lunchtime, it was crowded.

01:33:29.000 We actually started getting threats.

01:33:30.000 People were yelling at us, and the police told us we should probably leave.

01:33:33.000 The cop said to me, look, if these people start throwing stones, we can't protect you.

01:33:38.000 And then I was like, okay, so we'll go, because we had cameras.

01:33:40.000 And so they were yelling stuff at us, like Expressen.

01:33:42.000 They thought we were a news outlet from Sweden.

01:33:45.000 Because we had a small camera.

01:33:46.000 One of the cameras we use here, actually, the same kind.

01:33:49.000 And so one of these other journalists said, oh, he's exaggerating.

01:33:54.000 It's not dangerous.

01:33:55.000 I'll prove it.

01:33:55.000 I'll go there.

01:33:57.000 And so this woman shows up there, does not go into the center shopping area of Rinkeby, where we were.

01:34:04.000 Stands outside the arches in the middle of the night wearing a full coat that covered her hands You couldn't see the color of her skin You couldn't see anything about her with her back to the entrance and said see look I'm here in the middle of the night And and it's just that's that's how the media manipulates and plays these dirty games to say there's no problem here Nothing to see here. 0.53

01:34:23.000 The reality was yes a small blonde woman at 2 in the morning when no one's around wearing a coat covering every inch of her body and not actually going in We'll make a lot of people think there's no problem because people assume the middle of the night's when it's dangerous.

01:34:37.000 No, the middle of the day is when it was dangerous.

01:34:39.000 When there was a hundred plus people there and they didn't like the press and they took issue with people based on their skin color.

01:34:46.000 So they'll sweep it under the rug using assumptions, tropes, and manipulation.

01:34:51.000 I mean, we've seen that.

01:34:51.000 Oh, yeah.

01:34:53.000 There's basically been an effort to deny that crime has been increasing in California over the last 10 or 20 years.

01:34:59.000 We've seen a huge decline in arrests per reports for shoplifting.

01:35:04.000 And so one of the things we'll say is we'll say, well, we were seeing, you know, fewer arrests.

01:35:09.000 Well, that doesn't mean there's less crime.

01:35:11.000 We do that.

01:35:11.000 I got one more question for you on the subject.

01:35:13.000 Real quick.

01:35:14.000 Have murders in San Francisco gone up or down?

01:35:16.000 They've gone up over the last two years, certainly since the George Floyd protests.

01:35:20.000 Do you want to know why that's so substantial?

01:35:22.000 Murder rates around the world have been going down for one reason, and do you know what it is?

01:35:28.000 If you had to guess, why would murder rates be going down for the past, I believe it's about the past 13 or so years?

01:35:36.000 Until now.

01:35:37.000 Well, I mean, in the book I describe a variety of factors, but I mean, the two big ones I looked at were better policing and rising legitimacy.

01:35:46.000 The answer is actually cell phones.

01:35:48.000 The crimes are still being committed, but people have the ability to call EMS within seconds, as opposed to before the era of the ubiquitous smartphone.

01:35:57.000 People would see an emergency and then run to find a phone, which dramatically increased response time.

01:36:04.000 So I actually learned this when I was in Sweden.

01:36:07.000 What they were saying was, the progressives were trying to say, oh no, look, you know, like, even though crime is going up, it's not that much.

01:36:14.000 Except when you look at homicide rates in other countries, they were all in a downward trend.

01:36:18.000 And what we ended up discovering was, since cell phones became something everyone had, when a lethal crime was committed, a crime that could be potentially lethal, people immediately called the police.

01:36:31.000 The ambulance got there within minutes.

01:36:32.000 This decreases the amount of murders, but increases the amount of attempted murders or aggravated crimes.

01:36:39.000 So the United States, we've seen murders going down in a lot of ways.

01:36:43.000 For places where murders are going up, that's in spite of the fact that people now have the opportunity to call emergency services, which is exacerbated by the fact when you defund the police and now calling gets you nothing.

01:36:55.000 So now we start seeing it go back up.

01:36:56.000 Yeah, I mean certainly.

01:36:57.000 I think it's a complicated area.

01:37:01.000 I tend to side with two basic strands of research.

01:37:06.000 One showing that declining belief in the legitimacy of the government and the system corresponds with increasing homicides.

01:37:16.000 This is all based on this work from a book called American Homicide by Randolph Roth.

01:37:20.000 But then I also, you know, the growing consensus among a lot of criminologists is that the rise in homicides after Ferguson in 2015, and then after the George Floyd killing and the Black Lives Matter protests last summer, was due to basically what we call the Ferguson effect, which is the emboldenment of criminals out of declining legitimacy, but also the pulling back of police from The kind of street, you know, walking the streets, interacting with the folks, including the folks that are more likely to commit homicide.

01:37:47.000 We gotta go to Superchats.

01:37:48.000 What's declining legitimacy?

01:37:49.000 We gotta go to Superchats because we're way, way, way past time.

01:37:51.000 Can you define that?

01:37:52.000 We could talk about this in the after segment.

01:37:53.000 Definitely.

01:37:54.000 So if you haven't already, smash that like button and we definitely went a little late and we have a hard stop so we're gonna try and read as many Superchats as we can.

01:38:01.000 Alright, Matthew Hammond says, has he seen the nuclear battery technology that never needs to be charged in the last 20,000 years?

01:38:11.000 Yeah, that doesn't exist.

01:38:14.000 It does.

01:38:15.000 I mean, there was a news report about it, but I think it's grossly, greatly exaggerated.

01:38:20.000 There's a lot of reports for designs, and even design is a bit of a strong word for it.

01:38:27.000 These are more like ideas.

01:38:29.000 These are spitballing.

01:38:31.000 I mean, the history of nuclear is a history of a lot of enthusiasts, a lot of technical enthusiasts, and very few successful real-world innovations.

01:38:42.000 Mostly we've succeeded with nuclear.

01:38:45.000 It's similar to jet planes.

01:38:47.000 I think one day we will have hydrogen-fueled jet planes that will get us from L.A.

01:38:51.000 to Australia in an hour.

01:38:53.000 That's that day's a long ways off.

01:38:55.000 And until then, we should stick with the kerosene powered jet planes that we have.

01:38:57.000 Or rocket planes.

01:38:58.000 That's basically my view of nuclear.

01:38:59.000 That's what basically they would be.

01:39:00.000 Yeah, that's what they would be.

01:39:02.000 So but I mean, nuclear is just extremely, it's obviously a super complex technology.

01:39:07.000 It's also heavily regulated, both for national security and for radiological reasons.

01:39:12.000 All right.

01:39:12.000 John R. says, nice shelf.

01:39:15.000 Why it was John R. the other day who said, you should put up a shelf.

01:39:19.000 So we have, uh, Michael's books, uh, San Francisco and Apocalypse Never.

01:39:24.000 And it was actually like five minutes before the show.

01:39:26.000 We were like, can Andy put up the shelf real quick?

01:39:29.000 And then he drilled the shelf in because we were trying to like put the books up and we were like, John had a good idea.

01:39:34.000 And so we rolled, we, we, we went with it.

01:39:37.000 Let's see what we got.

01:39:37.000 All right.

01:39:39.000 Let's try and find some good questions.

01:39:42.000 All right, let's see.

01:39:43.000 We got some Let's Go Brandons. 0.99

01:39:44.000 All right, Let's Go Brandon.

01:39:45.000 Okay.

01:39:47.000 King Tesseract says, this one's to Michael.

01:39:49.000 I hear you advocating for nuclear all the time.

01:39:51.000 Why haven't you told people about thorium and LFTR reactors?

01:39:55.000 They seem pretty awesome, especially since the US sits on a lot of thorium.

01:39:59.000 Yeah, I mean, this is the same kind of question around the nuclear battery or about fusion.

01:40:05.000 So we originally had experimented with a number of different designs.

01:40:10.000 What is often called thorium is basically a new fuel coolant combination.

01:40:18.000 You don't need thorium for it. Thorium is an alternative to uranium, but it doesn't

01:40:22.000 offer many of the benefits that people have said it would.

01:40:25.000 You can still make weapons-grade materials out of these technologies.

01:40:30.000 The idea was that if it's already melted, if the fuel-coolant combination is already

01:40:36.000 melted, then you won't have a meltdown, and so we would add some safety benefits.

01:40:40.000 But the problem is that that particular fuel-coolant combination, the coolants are

01:40:45.000 usually made out of chemicals, either fluoride or beryllium or lithium or some combination of them.

01:40:50.000 The problem is that they create different problems for the metals and also for the

01:40:56.000 process of creating them. In the first place, you have to have a chemical combination and

01:40:59.000 separation system.

01:41:01.000 So it's just proven to be really expensive and difficult, and so that's why they don't exist.

01:41:07.000 I've been focused on trying to keep the nuclear reactors that we have, that are running, continue to be running and not shut down early.

01:41:13.000 Most of them can run for 80 or 100 years or more.

01:41:16.000 Are these the ones that use corium in the reactor, in the core of the thing?

01:41:20.000 They use uranium.

01:41:21.000 And then if it melts down, it's considered, is it corium?

01:41:24.000 Is that what, these rods?

01:41:25.000 Well, I mean, if it melts down, it turns into a big mess, you know, but I thought about if could you pour a superconductor into the mess and allow it to cool over time like gold?

01:41:35.000 I do not have an answer to that question, but I can say that every time we've had the mess, whether the big ones like in Chernobyl or Fukushima, it's just been a huge headache to deal with.

01:41:45.000 If there were some simple technical fix to it, then we would have it.

01:41:49.000 The trouble is getting in there once it's melted.

01:41:51.000 All the drones shut down, so they've had a hard time getting in.

01:41:54.000 But I wonder if you could get a superconductor in the core and allow it to cool down.

01:41:58.000 Yeah, there's a lot of research on it.

01:42:02.000 And that's obviously the desire for some radically different technology.

01:42:05.000 My view is that these accidents are not unusual for a new technology, that new technologies, we should expect some amount of accidents.

01:42:14.000 The ones that we had were not the big public health disasters that people think that they were.

01:42:19.000 You know, best estimates are somewhere around 200 people total will have died from Chernobyl after an 80-year period.

01:42:25.000 That's nothing compared to the six million lives we think are shortened every year from

01:42:28.000 air pollution.

01:42:29.000 Then much of the fear and panic around nuclear stems from anxiety around the bomb, which

01:42:35.000 remains the only real technological way to create an apocalyptic scenario or the destruction

01:42:40.000 of civilization that we have other than asteroids or supervolcanoes.

01:42:44.000 So my view is that – and then it was also politicized, and the opposition to nuclear

01:42:49.000 came from a lot of different areas.

01:42:50.000 But my view is that I tend to be technologically more conservative because every time they

01:42:56.000 have tried to significantly change the ways in which nuclear reactors operate, the costs

01:43:01.000 have gone up significantly because it's just the workers.

01:43:05.000 The work of building a nuclear plant is mostly pouring cement and rebar and welding pipes, but the demands are that that work be done at a level that's much higher than for natural gas or coal plants.

01:43:16.000 And so my concern is just that when we start radically changing the technology, you start getting big cost overruns and we want to keep the nuclear cheap.

01:43:23.000 I once read a story about a scuba diver, I think it was, who got sucked into an intake pipe at a nuclear power plant and was fine because the water blocks radiation.

01:43:32.000 Uh-huh.

01:43:33.000 So it was just, like, warm water.

01:43:35.000 That's interesting.

01:43:35.000 I wonder where that was.

01:43:36.000 Maybe it's not true, though.

01:43:37.000 I was like, it was one of those books you reread in the bathroom or something like that.

01:43:39.000 All right, let's read a little bit more.

01:43:41.000 A.O.

01:43:41.000 Shooter says, please shout out Stop Button Barcade.

01:43:44.000 Bar plus arcade equals awesome.

01:43:46.000 Hey, very, very cool.

01:43:48.000 Alright, um, many people are saying Ian, the hippie authoritarian, and they're saying things like that.

01:43:55.000 Alright, let's see.

01:43:57.000 Zach D'Arce says, Website member here, thank god Luke is back.

01:44:02.000 Ian clearly doesn't understand rights at all, and always conflates the issue into nonsense.

01:44:06.000 Your human rights to not be aggressed upon is inherent and immutable.

01:44:10.000 Authoritarian.

01:44:12.000 Ooh! 0.96

01:44:13.000 No, Luke said that it was his human right to go shopping.

01:44:16.000 No, that's not what I said.

01:44:17.000 Don't you dare defunct my messaging.

01:44:20.000 I said government intervening in your life is not good.

01:44:22.000 I probably misinterpreted what you said.

01:44:24.000 I'll go listen to it later.

01:44:25.000 Cold water says, I also live in the SF Bay area and my daughter and I were yelled at on a nature trail.

01:44:31.000 We were both masked, but we were going the wrong way to reduce transmission.

01:44:34.000 My response, call the police.

01:44:36.000 Well, if you're in Australia, you get arrested for being on a nature walk and not having a mask.

01:44:41.000 There's been tons of videos, tons of incidences of people getting brutalized by thugs with badges for simply walking in nature by themselves with their family emerged without a mask.

01:44:52.000 In the UK, they sent helicopters hunting people down in the middle of nature by themselves to go after them and arrest them.

01:45:00.000 Oh, weird.

01:45:01.000 Bones says, I just sent this $20 Super Chat and YouTube removed my comment.

01:45:05.000 I didn't even violate TOS.

01:45:07.000 I just happened to mention the Book of Revelation.

01:45:09.000 Huh.

01:45:09.000 Interesting.

01:45:10.000 Weird.

01:45:10.000 It's a conspiracy.

01:45:12.000 Kev says, Ian, you're wrong.

01:45:13.000 Australia did violate basic human rights.

01:45:15.000 The Daily Wire did a piece.

01:45:17.000 Four newborn babies die after Australian COVID-19 restrictions prevent travel.

01:45:21.000 Look it up.

01:45:21.000 Jeez.

01:45:22.000 Interesting. 0.99

01:45:22.000 That sucks. 0.99

01:45:25.000 All right. 0.98

01:45:25.000 Let's see what we got. 0.98

01:45:28.000 Ish That Offends People podcast says, Idaho mom here. 0.99

01:45:32.000 We took my six year old to hockey tonight after two years of being robbed of it.

01:45:36.000 Kid was told he couldn't skate without mask, mandated to be on ice.

01:45:40.000 For children who rarely die from the vid, they're muzzling kids like animals. 0.98

01:45:44.000 This is insanity and abuse won't go back.

01:45:47.000 Yeah.

01:45:47.000 In Colorado Springs, a teacher masked sixth graders with tape over their face because she said that the kids weren't wearing the masks properly.

01:45:55.000 Wow.

01:45:55.000 So there's a lot of insanity out there.

01:45:57.000 We do have a bit of an update as well.

01:46:00.000 Steambub says, you can threaten someone in the U.S.

01:46:03.000 It's only illegal if you intend to follow through, which is an interesting line.

01:46:07.000 But you can also threaten people in response to things or as statements of logical follow through in that if you do X, I will do X to you.

01:46:16.000 Yeah, I'm not sure how you would determine intent in that way.

01:46:19.000 I think we're looking at speech.

01:46:21.000 Well, the interesting thing is it's also typically discretion of the cop and most threats will never be prosecuted or, you know, unless it's against like a public official.

01:46:30.000 Then you're in the territory of like, yo, we don't want to do that.

01:46:33.000 And you're not allowed to stalk people.

01:46:36.000 You know, I mean, it's definitely, it gets into gray areas.

01:46:40.000 Well, hold on.

01:46:41.000 It's depending on the legal line of what stalking is.

01:46:44.000 So when you're like outside their house on their property, looking through the window, calling them repeatedly, So if, but if you were watching someone leave and you followed them, they could file like a civil action and say, you know, stop following me or something, but you're never gonna get arrested for that.

01:46:59.000 So can't is more so, uh, it's frowned upon.

01:47:02.000 Yeah, you're right.

01:47:03.000 In a sense, you have to be violating other laws.

01:47:05.000 You can get a protective order.

01:47:07.000 You know?

01:47:08.000 All right.

01:47:09.000 Bad B says, we are living in a Herbert Marcuse world right now.

01:47:12.000 If you check him on every, check him out, everything going on right now will make sense.

01:47:16.000 Yep.

01:47:16.000 Well, there you go.

01:47:17.000 True.

01:47:19.000 Bruno Bronowski says, I'm driving to the event from Chicago.

01:47:22.000 If anyone wants a ride, I'll give them my plus one ticket.

01:47:25.000 My info is on my GitHub resume.

01:47:28.000 And that is Bruno Bronowski.

01:47:30.000 Wow, driving from Chicago.

01:47:31.000 That's fun.

01:47:32.000 It's going to be in Harper's Ferry.

01:47:33.000 We're doing this event on Saturday with Ryan and Danny.

01:47:37.000 Yeah.

01:47:38.000 It's going to be a whole lot of fun.

01:47:40.000 Joe says corporate fascism, like Zillow buying up homes and reselling them for $100K more one week later, not flipping them, just reselling to price us out.

01:47:49.000 Yikes.

01:47:50.000 Wow.

01:47:50.000 That's crazy.

01:47:54.000 Gideon says, Hey team, I live in New Zealand.

01:47:56.000 The government is bringing out the digital passports, digital IDs.

01:47:59.000 Unvaccinated will be restricted to essential services only. 0.77

01:48:02.000 Keep up the good work.

01:48:03.000 Yep.

01:48:04.000 Here we go.

01:48:04.000 It's like black mirror.

01:48:05.000 You're going to have your social credit score.

01:48:08.000 Have you seen the Chinese social credit score stuff?

01:48:10.000 Yeah?

01:48:11.000 Yeah, it's insane.

01:48:11.000 The World Economic Forum literally released videos talking about how great it is to have a domestic passport system that's gonna be checked everywhere with your health and it's gonna control you with every aspect of your existence.

01:48:22.000 The video's creepy as hell.

01:48:24.000 Mike Bloomberg, you know what he says, tax the poor. 1.00

01:48:26.000 They're too stupid to buy their own stuff, so we gotta do it for them. 1.00

01:48:29.000 Well, that's the life everyone's hoping to live. 1.00

01:48:31.000 Your pursuit of happiness, based on what Michael Bloomberg has decided, is best for you.

01:48:36.000 All right, let's see.

01:48:38.000 Carson Liebarger says, I can vouch for Tim here on the Facebook profile thing.

01:48:43.000 I've had a shadow account for over five years and I've never made an account.

01:48:46.000 Learned about it, learned about the account from friends.

01:48:48.000 Well, the shadow profiles aren't public.

01:48:50.000 And there was a glitch that happened one day where apparently Facebook made them publicly visible to people and everyone was like, what is this?

01:48:56.000 What is this weird account with my information on it?

01:49:00.000 And that's basically how people discovered shadow profiles are a real thing.

01:49:06.000 Alright.

01:49:07.000 The issue is, your data is worthless.

01:49:08.000 follow up on being paid for our personal data like realties.

01:49:12.000 Costly and administratively cumbersome.

01:49:14.000 Make Facebook disclose each time they sell, share, trade our data.

01:49:18.000 The issue is your data is worthless.

01:49:21.000 However, the data of a million people in one area is worth full.

01:49:25.000 So I've heard people say, we got to get paid for our data.

01:49:28.000 Facebook should be paying us for our data.

01:49:29.000 And I'm like, oh yeah, the 0.00001 cent that you would get from the information they have

01:49:36.000 Combine it all, and when you have a pool of a million people, well they can sell that for not even that much, but it's incentive to go with Facebook for advertising.

01:49:44.000 So they do make money off it, but...

01:49:46.000 I guess the bigger issue is people assume that Facebook takes your data and then sells it to big companies for experiments or stuff like that and they've done things like that.

01:49:55.000 That's partly what the Cambridge Analytica thing was all about.

01:49:58.000 But Reginald Enterprises says Facebook does give you money for your data.

01:50:02.000 They do so by offering a free service that costs them money.

01:50:05.000 Well, interesting.

01:50:06.000 I get it.

01:50:06.000 That's different, though.

01:50:07.000 Yeah.

01:50:08.000 When something's free, you're the product.

01:50:09.000 That's what they say.

01:50:10.000 Yep.

01:50:12.000 Alright, let's see what we got here.

01:50:13.000 We got a bunch of new Super Chats coming in.

01:50:16.000 Jeffrey McCorbin says his name was David Dorn.

01:50:19.000 Someone sent us a picture of David Dorn.

01:50:20.000 We have it hanging in the green room.

01:50:22.000 That's right.

01:50:23.000 Jonathan Galtarini says, I gave a speech on net neutrality for law school.

01:50:27.000 Who has the power to control access?

01:50:29.000 The government or your service provider?

01:50:30.000 Can AT&T slow the speed of sites they do not like themselves?

01:50:34.000 Can the government force them to do the same?

01:50:36.000 One must have the power.

01:50:37.000 Well, why should one must have the power?

01:50:39.000 Shouldn't people have equal access to the internet? 0.91

01:50:43.000 I would think so.

01:50:44.000 I guess the issue is, the argument against net neutrality was, if I got the money, I should be able to buy better access, right?

01:50:51.000 I should be able to get faster access to AT&T.

01:50:54.000 AT&T should be able to pay the provider and say, make it easier to get to our website.

01:50:58.000 But if you do that, it's scary because then all of a sudden, well, if you're conservative, you're not going to be able to go to InfoWars.

01:51:03.000 It'll be really difficult to load, you know, sites like that and the things you want to read.

01:51:10.000 All right, let's see.

01:51:11.000 Steve Otten says, you should look into getting Ben Davidson on as a guest from Suspicious Observers.

01:51:16.000 The science he presents as rock solid and he needs to be heard.

01:51:20.000 Interesting, we'll look it up.

01:51:22.000 Toby Walker says, Ian is right.

01:51:24.000 We should crowdsource to buy out these platforms and open the code.

01:51:28.000 The societal impact of social media is more than tech moguls can manage.

01:51:31.000 Open algorithms are the only way we can ever guarantee a fair system.

01:51:34.000 Or no algorithms.

01:51:36.000 Just get rid of them outright.

01:51:37.000 You follow the people you want to follow.

01:51:39.000 And if you follow a million people, your feed will just be an endless stream of contents just cycling through and that's what you want, that's what you get.

01:51:46.000 I think that guy's, uh, your suggestion to crowdsource is, I think crowdsourcing is underutilized right now because if we can pool a hundred thousand people together and throw ten bucks at something, that's a million.

01:51:55.000 We could buy a huge piece of land and then turn it into a public park or something.

01:51:59.000 We could do the same thing with, ultimately, companies.

01:52:03.000 All right, Austin Walters says, the issue isn't where they post, it's how you follow.

01:52:08.000 Make an RSS feed in the browser, pull a person's post from the various sites, then make a news feed.

01:52:14.000 Who you follow is stored in a browser extension.

01:52:18.000 Interesting.

01:52:19.000 We could, uh, you know, yeah.

01:52:22.000 All right.

01:52:23.000 Let's see.

01:52:23.000 DH says forced federation is the true solution to big tech and antitrust is the way it needs to be enforced.

01:52:31.000 I definitely think forced federation is a good idea for those that don't understand or just to re-conceptualize.

01:52:40.000 This would mean that Twitter has to allow you to follow Gab accounts.

01:52:44.000 So you could be on Twitter and you could follow someone on Gab.

01:52:47.000 Oh, but we'll ban the Gab network. 0.99

01:52:49.000 It's like, okay, well then, as long as you're hosting your own platform, people on Twitter can follow you.

01:52:56.000 Twitter can ban your website from their website, but your account would still exist.

01:53:00.000 You'd still keep your subscribers and all that good stuff.

01:53:03.000 And maybe you can't ban a network.

01:53:05.000 Maybe that's something that could be worked on.

01:53:06.000 Right now you can ban a user, but banning a network, that's a...

01:53:09.000 I think banning a network is totally fine.

01:53:12.000 If TimCast.com says we don't want these posts appearing on our site, then we just say this one doesn't count.

01:53:18.000 But then Facebook could ban every network that's not Facebook.

01:53:20.000 Twitter could ban... And then people are going to be like, I can't follow people I want to follow.

01:53:23.000 It would just not be federated.

01:53:25.000 It would be like a bypassing the federation if they ban everything other than their own network.

01:53:30.000 So I see what you're saying.

01:53:31.000 It would have to be for like specific things, you know.

01:53:37.000 I guess it's tough.

01:53:38.000 This is a good conversation.

01:53:38.000 Yeah, they'd still try and find a way to ban external networks.

01:53:42.000 So yeah, maybe you can't.

01:53:43.000 But then... Yeah, that's interesting because then Facebook's like, we don't want this stuff appearing on our site.

01:53:48.000 It's like, don't worry, it's not.

01:53:49.000 It's appearing on their site.

01:53:51.000 And then Facebook would have to, like, file a complaint.

01:53:54.000 Maybe... I don't know, man.

01:53:55.000 It's tough.

01:53:55.000 I do think censorship is important.

01:53:58.000 People, people, we usually have like a black and white approach, but, you know, Ian talks about censoring criminal content, very disgusting images.

01:54:06.000 Yeah, we want censors to be like, we're not going to show that, that involves children, no dice, that can't be there.

01:54:11.000 And so the problem is when the censorship is political and used to weaponize the system for one, you know, one group's political gain or something like that.

01:54:19.000 That's the, that's the challenge.

01:54:21.000 Yeah, it's really a parent's job to censor what their kids see.

01:54:23.000 But man, in this world, that's a whole other conversation.

01:54:27.000 Ballgame.

01:54:29.000 Justin Meyer says, I've been told that unvaccinated Delta employees have a $200 surcharge for health care.

01:54:34.000 Have you guys heard about this?

01:54:36.000 Yeah, that's Delta, right?

01:54:38.000 It's weird because I don't know.

01:54:39.000 We have to fact check that.

01:54:40.000 But Delta was, I think, the only airline that wasn't implementing mandates, from what I heard.

01:54:46.000 One of them was doing $200 fees, yeah.

01:54:47.000 I'm pretty sure Delta does have some mandates, just not in the traditional sense.

01:54:52.000 Yeah.

01:54:52.000 So a lot of people are still criticizing them.

01:54:55.000 All right.

01:54:56.000 Stephen Taylor says, Much love and update from Utah.

01:54:58.000 Elk hunt successful.

01:55:00.000 Filled both my spike and cow tag.

01:55:02.000 Winter's meat secured.

01:55:04.000 Ooh, very nice.

01:55:04.000 Nice.

01:55:06.000 All right, Alex Maggiore, from someone who was once homeless, trust me, if you don't want to be homeless, you don't have to be.

01:55:14.000 There are too many government programs that will put you back on your feet.

01:55:17.000 And a lot of these homeless shelters, often empty.

01:55:21.000 Yeah, this is a lot of, what else a lot of these leftists don't understand when they're like, why aren't we putting homeless people in homes?

01:55:27.000 Why are homeless shelters empty?

01:55:28.000 And there are many of them that, or at the very least, why are they not at capacity?

01:55:33.000 There are many shelters that I've personally experienced that were, like, straight empty.

01:55:37.000 And they would go out and they would be like, sir, please, like, we have a space for you, and they'd be like, get away from me.

01:55:41.000 I'm not going to whatever it is you're doing.

01:55:44.000 They might come in, take a shower, and leave sometimes.

01:55:46.000 They'll show up, knock on the door, be like, yeah, I'm gonna come and take a shower, and then they would leave.

01:55:50.000 Yeah, it depends.

01:55:51.000 I mean, one of the reasons that people don't like standing shelters is because you can't use drugs in the shelter.

01:55:55.000 That's right.

01:55:57.000 And they sometimes will make you do certain things, get clean, change your clothes.

01:56:01.000 Yeah.

01:56:01.000 But the point, you know, like New York had, at least before the pandemic, they'd been sheltering, you know, 99% of the homeless.

01:56:07.000 But yeah, you have to decide that you're not going to allow public camping.

01:56:12.000 One of the things I discovered that was striking was that it had been homeless advocates themselves who had opposed building sufficient shelter space in California out of the belief that everybody deserved housing and that the shelters just weren't good enough for people.

01:56:27.000 And people need to understand, there's a lot of homeless people who go to California specifically because it's really nice weather and you can sleep outside.

01:56:35.000 There's not going to be a solution.

01:56:36.000 And you can have three grams of hard drugs and still $950 worth of goods.

01:56:40.000 It's really a recipe for disaster.

01:56:42.000 I remember when I was living in Seattle, there were a bunch of homeless kids, like late teens, that hung out near UW, University of Washington, and they would ride the freight rails to make it there.

01:56:55.000 They wanted to be homeless.

01:56:57.000 There was no changing their minds.

01:56:58.000 This was their life, their passion, their fun, their community, and that's it.

01:57:04.000 There's something, I mean, there's a part, there's a wildness to it.

01:57:07.000 There's a part of it that's very romantic, and I don't object to it, but I don't think you have a right to sleep wherever you want.

01:57:15.000 That's the difference, is that like, I'm sort of, and I have the same way about drugs, which is that if you want to kill yourself, In the privacy of your own apartment, I don't think that we should dedicate public resources to chasing you down, but you don't get to overdose and use hard drugs in public because that's a violation of public space.

01:57:30.000 My friend was working with homeless and I believe she told me that at some point the San Francisco City was going through with fire hoses at 4 a.m.

01:57:35.000 and just hosing all the homeless people off the side of the road.

01:57:38.000 Did you ever hear anything about that?

01:57:40.000 No, I never.

01:57:42.000 The language that's used, it's not great language, I don't use it myself, is the idea of sweeps.

01:57:48.000 But I think the way you have to think about it is that these are open drug scenes, meaning that these are places where there's an open-air drug market and users who are living there.

01:57:56.000 We only know one way to close open-air drug scenes.

01:58:00.000 It's the same way the Europeans have done it, which is that you use a combination of police and social services. 0.66

01:58:06.000 You require people to be in shelter, so it's shelter first, treatment first, housing is earned.

01:58:11.000 I almost feel like I saw a video of it.

01:58:12.000 I gotta confirm.

01:58:13.000 and I never came across that.

01:58:15.000 And that sounds like the kind of rhetoric that honestly the radical left might use.

01:58:19.000 I almost feel like I saw a video of it.

01:58:21.000 I got to confirm.

01:58:22.000 I would be shocked if they were spraying cold water on people.

01:58:26.000 I'm not saying it, maybe it happened, but if it did, that is absolutely not OK.

01:58:32.000 And that could not have been sustainable.

01:58:33.000 But they'll sweep, like, just the cops will go in and grab people and be like, you gotta go, we're taking you on a bus, like, what do they do?

01:58:38.000 Like, usually you give several days of warning that you have to stop being there.

01:58:44.000 Social services are offered.

01:58:46.000 Most people take the offer or they leave.

01:58:50.000 And go somewhere else, and then there's a few hardcore people that won't leave, and sure, then they get arrested.

01:58:55.000 I mean, you don't have a right to sleep wherever you want.

01:58:57.000 We have designated camping areas, and if you don't want to sleep there, then my view is that we should have sufficient shelter space for you, but it's not a thing where you just get to sleep in the playground and use heroin wherever you want and defecate wherever you want.

01:59:12.000 That's not compatible with civilization.

01:59:14.000 Agreed.

01:59:14.000 All right, Danny Douglas says, trying to get my ticket.

01:59:17.000 I'm in the area temporarily before getting shipped out to Guam.

01:59:20.000 This is my only chance to come and meet you guys before 2024.

01:59:24.000 So, um, man, it's tough because, you know, we chose a smaller venue with a couple hundred capacity and the tickets sold out instantly.

01:59:32.000 We're doing an auction now and the goal is to do it, you know, um, Probably, we have one going right now.

01:59:38.000 So if you're a member at TimCast.com, you can go in and people are bidding.

01:59:42.000 Last I checked, I think it was like $175 was the bid.

01:59:44.000 And we did this because we were just trying to do like, some people happen to see, you know, they're able to be on the website, they see the post, they're able to get the ticket because tickets were free for members at $25 or more.

01:59:57.000 Some people are too busy and didn't have the opportunity to, so they have the opportunity to just buy, like, use the auction, you know, purchase a ticket.

02:00:04.000 But we're going to do an auction.

02:00:05.000 We have an auction today, tomorrow, and I think we're going to do it Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.

02:00:10.000 We'll probably do two separate auctions on Friday, because we're going to have a total of 10 tickets that you can just bid for, and we're going to be ending the auctions randomly.

02:00:18.000 We're going to let them stay up for a little while, but we're going to end them randomly because we don't want people to be avoiding bidding.

02:00:24.000 We want you to just be like, here's my bid.

02:00:26.000 I want to come.

02:00:27.000 And then we'll ultimately just be like, we're going to cut it off at like 10 p.m.

02:00:30.000 or something.

02:00:31.000 So we're trying to find a way to do it as fair as possible.

02:00:34.000 It's very difficult.

02:00:35.000 Typically, when you do auctions, people say, oh, wait till the last five seconds and then bid whatever the next bid is.

02:00:40.000 And so then everyone's got to sit there and wait.

02:00:42.000 And it's really annoying.

02:00:44.000 Oh man, we're trying to figure it out to make it the best possible we can and the fairest we can, but it's certainly not that easy.

02:00:48.000 All right, let's just do, uh, we'll do one more funny one.

02:00:52.000 Garhent says, Tim, this is my third time being broadcasted for this point.

02:00:56.000 Could you please get one of Ian's personalities to take the political compass test?

02:01:00.000 His spirit guide was born in Gorey, Georgia.

02:01:04.000 I did take the political compass test.

02:01:06.000 Guess what I was? 0.50

02:01:07.000 Fascist. 1.00

02:01:09.000 You liar! 1.00

02:01:10.000 Your guess was a lie! 1.00

02:01:11.000 Commie fascist. 0.96

02:01:13.000 You inverted the whole chart. 0.96

02:01:14.000 You made it explode.

02:01:15.000 Do you want me to tell you?

02:01:17.000 It was libertarian left.

02:01:18.000 Left libertarian on this one.

02:01:21.000 Just like George Soros.

02:01:24.000 I doubt you would be comfortable with the things that get passed as left libertarian in the Bay Area.

02:01:30.000 Oh, I'm sure they're not.

02:01:31.000 They're authoritarians.

02:01:32.000 That's the craziest thing to me.

02:01:33.000 I always describe it like left libertarian would be hippies on a farm sharing their watermelon together.

02:01:37.000 You know, no one's exchanged.

02:01:38.000 There's no hard currency.

02:01:39.000 They have a community and understanding and agreement.

02:01:42.000 But this stuff, left libertarianism only really works when you have a homogenous culture and ideology.

02:01:46.000 I used to, I talked with Bob Murphy about this today, I used to want to help people.

02:01:50.000 Now I want to give them tools so that they can help themselves.

02:01:54.000 I want to give them the opportunity to help themselves.

02:01:56.000 And if they don't, that's it.

02:01:58.000 I can't force help upon them.

02:02:01.000 Ian's turn to the dark side is, you know... I'm a grey Jedi.

02:02:05.000 I wield both the dark and the light.

02:02:07.000 That's what all the bad guys say.

02:02:10.000 No, the bad guys all think they're the good guys.

02:02:11.000 All right, man.

02:02:13.000 Michael, it's been a blast.

02:02:14.000 Thanks for having me, guys.

02:02:15.000 For everybody else, smash that like button, subscribe to the channel.

02:02:19.000 You can follow us at TimCastIRL.

02:02:20.000 You can follow me at TimCast.

02:02:22.000 We'll have a bonus segment for members coming up at around 11 or so p.m., but do you want to shout out your books one more time?

02:02:27.000 Yeah, sure.

02:02:28.000 Go buy my new book, San Francisco, Why Progressives Ruin Cities.

02:02:31.000 And while you're at it, buy Apocalypse Never, Why Environmental Alarmism Hurts Us All.

02:02:36.000 I want to thank the chat members for the Luke Newcomb comments.

02:02:40.000 I appreciate those very much.

02:02:42.000 A lot of times I'm laughing here and people are like, why are you laughing?

02:02:46.000 I got the chat open.

02:02:48.000 I love you guys.

02:02:49.000 You guys are awesome.

02:02:50.000 I released two videos today, one on YouTube.com forward slash WeAreChanged and another very spicy one on LukeUncensored.com.

02:02:58.000 If you're interested in those, check those out.

02:03:00.000 I'm Ian Crossland.

02:03:01.000 Thanks again, Michael, for coming.

02:03:02.000 This was fantastic.

02:03:03.000 And I want to shout out Jacob Geometrics on Instagram and Etsy for sending me this.

02:03:08.000 Thank you so much for sending this to me, man.

02:03:09.000 I love it.

02:03:10.000 That Ian gave to me and then took back.

02:03:11.000 Yeah, Luke was like, can I have this?

02:03:13.000 He's like, yes, yes.

02:03:16.000 And then I'm like, oh, this is gonna be so cool on my wall.

02:03:18.000 I wanted him to have it.

02:03:19.000 I'm posting everything up on my wall that you guys sent me that was in the vlog today.

02:03:23.000 And then like 10 minutes later, Ian comes back and I need that back.

02:03:28.000 I want it back.

02:03:28.000 I do want you to have it though, Luke.

02:03:30.000 It's fine.

02:03:31.000 It's fine.

02:03:31.000 It's a great design.

02:03:32.000 It is.

02:03:32.000 I'm glad the world sees it.

02:03:34.000 And yes, thank you guys for tuning in.

02:03:35.000 It was really enlightening to hear more about California and homelessness.

02:03:39.000 I'm really glad Michael's able to join us tonight.

02:03:40.000 You guys may follow me on Twitter at Sour Patch Lids.

02:03:44.000 Make sure you go to TimCast.com for that member segment and we will see you all there.

Timcast IRL - Tim Pool - October 19, 2021

Timcast IRL - Southwest LOSING Vax Mandate Battle, Cancels Unpaid Leave Plan w-Michael Shellenberger

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