Timcast IRL - Tim Pool - August 11, 2026


Trump SECRET MISSION REVEALED, It Was A TRAP To Catch BETRAYERS | Timcast IRL

Topics
Hosted by
Mentioned
AOC Says WOKE IS CRAZY, Preps 2028 Run | Timcast IRL Democrats Accused Of CHEATING AGAIN, NBC Guru LOSES IT ON LIVE TV | Timcast IRL

Episode Stats


Length

2 hours and 58 minutes

Words per minute

193.2

Word count

34,534

Sentence count

3,170

Harmful content

Misogyny

24

sentences flagged

Toxicity

110

sentences flagged

Hate speech

89

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcripts from "Timcast IRL - Tim Pool" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:02:26 Donald Trump reportedly hid in a catering truck to transport off of Air Force One onto an older plane because there was a fear the Iranians were trying to assassinate him.
00:02:37 The weird thing is, when they landed in the UK, no one knows how Trump got from the other plane to the main plane.
00:02:44 So the question is, did he actually ever get off that plane and hide in this catering truck?
00:02:48 Or, dare I say, is the whole story faked by the Trump administration to try and see who would leak the nonsense? 0.93
00:02:56 Because it's a silly story. 0.95
00:02:58 Somebody gets wind of it.
00:03:00 And a lot of people think a lot of the weird stories that come out are Donald Trump making, or his administration at least, trying to figure out who is leaking by what's called coloring the water.
00:03:09 Imagine you have three glasses on your table and there is a pool of water under all of them.
00:03:14 You don't know which one is leaking the water.
00:03:15 So, what you do is you put red in one, green in one, blue in the other.
00:03:20 Whichever color the water turns on the table, you know where your leak is at.
00:03:23 So, the Trump admin leaks select stories to various people, see which one hits the press, and then they know who's spilling the beans.
00:03:31 So, we're going to talk about that.
00:03:33 And apparently, this is a crazy story.
00:03:35 This broke yesterday.
00:03:35 We'll talk about it today.
00:03:37 Fauci was privately texting that there were red flags over the vaccine use and potential for miscarriages.
00:03:43 And then, almost immediately, public was saying, nah, nah, nothing to see here.
00:03:46 Everything's fine.
00:03:47 Now, a bunch of women and their husbands are calling for Fauci to be prosecuted to go to prison because they had miscarriages during COVID.
00:03:57 Some individuals said, even a few days after the first booster, they lost their child.
00:04:01 And they believe that if Fauci had told them, Publicly, what they knew, maybe their children would have survived.
00:04:07 And then, of course, Royce White has gotten his first wig as he announced he is intending, he wants to play in the WNBA and that he is transgender.
00:04:17 And now we're going to sit back and wait for the WNBA, which is based in New York City, to figure out what a woman is because they actually have called an emergency meeting to figure out what a woman is because they don't know.
00:04:28 That being said, they're based in New York, so they will be subject to New York human rights law, which means we kind of know where this one's going to go.
00:04:36 And this could be it.
00:04:37 This could be the end of the fever dream where they are forced to reconcile the insanity of what AOC called woke one.
00:04:44 So we'll talk about that, my friends, and a whole lot more.
00:04:47 Before we do, we've got a great sponsor for you Tax Network USA.
00:04:50 Do you owe back taxes or have unfiled tax returns?
00:04:53 Have you filed every year but still keep owing?
00:04:56 Did you retire and suddenly get hit with a tax bill you didn't expect?
00:04:59 Maybe you pulled money from your 401k or IRA early and now the IRS wants its share.
00:05:02 However, your tax issue started, the outcome is the same.
00:05:04 Your balance is not going down, penalties are growing.
00:05:07 Interest compounds, and many of you are about to owe again for this upcoming tax year with no real plan in place.
00:05:13 Stop what you're doing and call Tax Network USA.
00:05:16 The IRS is not waiting.
00:05:18 The IRS is forcing collections through wage garnishments, bank levies, and property seizures.
00:05:23 They can even file for you without your consent.
00:05:25 This is where Tax Network USA comes in.
00:05:28 With over 15 years in the business, there hasn't been a tax case they haven't seen or resolved.
00:05:32 They specialize in tax controversies and help taxpayers nationwide get back on track by resolving back taxes and unfiled returns once and for all.
00:05:41 Whether you owe $10,000 or $10 million, their team has resolved over $1 billion in tax debt.
00:05:47 And they can do the same for you, but you've got to call now.
00:05:49 They're offering a free investigation called the IRS.
00:05:51 After that investigation, they put a clear case plan in place to resolve your tax problem and get you back on track.
00:05:57 It's about using your legal right to take control before the government sets the terms for you.
00:06:01 Do not wait for another IRS letter or frozen bank account.
00:06:05 Call 866 686 1535.
00:06:10 That's 866 686 1535.
00:06:13 686 1535, or visit tnusa.com/slash 10 or click the link in the description below.
00:06:20 Don't forget to go to timcast.com and join us, my friends.
00:06:23 Be the change you want to see in the world by getting in the Timcast Discord with tens of thousands of other individuals sharing stories, hosting their own shows, and you get to call in to the uncensored portion of this show, ask us questions, and maybe get some answers.
00:06:39 Don't forget to smash the like button, share the show with everyone you know.
00:06:43 Joining us tonight to talk about this and everything else, we have Rafael Mangual.
00:06:47 How are you?
00:06:47 Thanks for having me.
00:06:48 Who are you?
00:06:48 I'm good.
00:06:49 What do you do?
00:06:50 I'm Rafael Mangual.
00:06:51 I am a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, which is a public policy think tank, which should Basically, means that I write about stuff.
00:06:57 My particular area of expertise is crime, policing, public safety, criminal justice.
00:07:01 So, I have spent the last 10 years talking about why Woke One was crazy for policing, the defund period, all of that nonsense.
00:07:09 But they're still advocating for all of those things.
00:07:11 Absolutely.
00:07:12 They're on TV right now saying defund the police.
00:07:14 Because they have no.
00:07:14 Of course.
00:07:15 AOC is like, yeah, Woke One was crazy, and we're still calling for it.
00:07:18 I mean, I don't think that they can actually admit that everything that they did in the last 10 years was complete nonsense because they lose all credibility.
00:07:18 That's right.
00:07:25 I think they want people to forget long enough to elect them and then they can go back and do the It was all nonsense.
00:07:29 Well, it's going to be fun.
00:07:30 Thanks for joining us.
00:07:31 Daniel Turner's here as well.
00:07:32 I am.
00:07:32 Daniel Turner, Power of the Future, your favorite fossil fuel advocate and Virginia sheep farmer.
00:07:36 Great to be with you all.
00:07:37 Thanks for having me.
00:07:38 And we got the Boys.
00:07:39 What's up, everybody?
00:07:40 I sleep for all that remains.
00:07:40 I'm Phil.
00:07:42 What's up, Carter?
00:07:42 What's up, everyone?
00:07:43 I'm Carter.
00:07:44 And thank you all for coming.
00:07:46 Let's get into it.
00:07:47 Here's a story from NBC News Trump took a secret flight out of Turkey in an elaborate plot to hide his location amid Iran war.
00:07:55 The operation last month used a catering truck to get the president on a C 32 that flew from Ankara.
00:08:02 To the Royal Air Force Mildenhall in the UK.
00:08:05 They're going to say that he was whisked out of Turkey last month.
00:08:09 The Washington Post was the first to report the details.
00:08:11 The U.S. official confirmed the accuracy of these details.
00:08:13 Trump deplaned the C 32 again secretly and re boarded the older Air Force One jet.
00:08:18 Now, of course, you've got this image here of this catering truck.
00:08:22 People are claiming that it pulled in.
00:08:24 Trump sneaks out the back.
00:08:26 Then they bring that catering truck to the other plane where he sneaks on that plane.
00:08:29 The only issue is that, according to the story from the Washington Post, when both planes landed in the UK, no one knows how Trump got.
00:08:36 From the C 32 into Air Force One.
00:08:39 So perhaps Trump never actually left Air Force One, but this story was planted to see who in the administration was leaking details of their security.
00:08:50 Because you got to understand, if Trump told someone in the admin, they're going to try to kill me, so we are going to do a surreptitious plane swap, and then a month later that person reveals that plan to the press, you'd have to imagine Trump would be very, very angry about that because it compromises his life, his security.
00:09:10 I don't think Trump ever left the plane. 1.00
00:09:12 I think this story is stupid and crazy. 1.00
00:09:15 And the reason it's getting a bunch of traction, you know, with people sharing pictures of Trump, you know, hiding in a catering truck, is exactly the point. 1.00
00:09:22 You make a story that sounds shocking or worth reporting, and then you see who's willing to leak it to the press, and then you know.
00:09:30 We told that specifically to Daniel.
00:09:32 He was the only one who knew.
00:09:33 He's the leaker.
00:09:34 Secret Service doesn't share details of the president's security protocol.
00:09:39 When I was in the Bush administration years and years ago, I was.
00:09:42 Advance for a couple of events, and you have the little Secret Service earpiece and you know, read in one percent, one thousandth of a percent of what they know, but you knew enough in the training that you don't share the things that are happening.
00:09:55 So, there's I agree with you, there's no way in hell the Secret Service is going to willingly say, Oh, the president was in danger, so these are all the things we did to mitigate that danger.
00:10:03 The only way though to explain how he got from plane A to plane B, if that is the case and no one knows how he did it, I mean, I have seen David Copperfield in like a glass case dangling above the stage, and then a minute later he's like sitting next to Carter.
00:10:17 And so there are magic tricks that I don't know how they do.
00:10:20 Have you ever seen the movie, what is it?
00:10:22 It fits the prestige.
00:10:24 Yeah, exactly.
00:10:26 It's a great film.
00:10:27 It's a bloody body double.
00:10:29 No, I've seen it.
00:10:30 It's too good.
00:10:31 It's too perfect.
00:10:31 They used Joe Biden body doubles.
00:10:33 Remember, they were looking at the earlobes, and I was like, that guy's like three inches taller than Joe Biden.
00:10:37 That was Baidan.
00:10:38 Remember?
00:10:39 They called him Baidan.
00:10:40 Trump body double.
00:10:42 I mean, aren't we going to know pretty soon if this was a purposeful leak?
00:10:46 Or, I mean, someone's going to get fired in the near future, right?
00:10:48 It just depends on how much they want the journalists, the press to know.
00:10:53 They're moving, and we don't even know that it's a firing.
00:10:55 Yeah, that's true.
00:10:56 If it's true, I mean, if it is the case that he actually was targeted and they had reliable information, the implication is that it's like a nation state actor because they're talking about getting him off the plane because of anti air stuff, right?
00:11:12 It's not just a situation of, oh, there's a security situation.
00:11:17 It's, you know, there's some possibility, no matter how small, that the flight plan of Air Force One was leaked and that.
00:11:27 A nation state was with again anti air capabilities was looking to target him, but you would think that they would have some kind of like plan for that, right?
00:11:36 I mean, that's yeah, get him off the plane, but you know, beyond that, where they could still fly him, and actually, you know, it's not like they told everyone else to get off the plane.
00:11:43 I imagine that there were enough important people there that if that plane went down, it would have been a disaster, right?
00:11:48 Like that plane's flying with it, you know, F 35s beside it, right?
00:11:52 Like there's got to be some kind of contingency for that.
00:11:55 My hunch is right now, the White House, Susie Wilde, someone is.
00:12:00 Saying, all right, well, here's the story we concocted, and we know we leaked it to Tim, and suddenly we see it all over the news.
00:12:06 And now they're going to call Tim to the office and be like, listen, brother, so here's the deal, and now this is what you're going to do for us.
00:12:12 We're not going to ruin your career.
00:12:14 This is what you are going to do for us for the next two years.
00:12:16 It's not just about the leakers in the administration.
00:12:18 I'm pretty sure that people have tried leaking stories to me to get me to report things that were ridiculous to see if I would take something salacious.
00:12:26 Anonymous sources say.
00:12:27 I mean, because they're obviously we're in the bout, we need a lot of people, and I've had people come to me be like, hey, I got a big story, and this is this thing, and I'm like, that sounds ridiculous.
00:12:36 I'm not going to run with that. 0.60
00:12:36 Crazy. 0.60
00:12:37 And then it never happened.
00:12:39 So, you know, I had theories that the administration is like, who's willing to accept leaks?
00:12:44 Who can we trust?
00:12:46 Because if someone's leaking, what if some of the, you know, like, what if, will Tim Poole go on his show and make and say some crazy story about Trump citing this leaker?
00:12:54 And then, like, if I can't verify it, ban a single source, I don't go anywhere near it.
00:12:57 Well, sad source, though, for the Trump administration since 2015 is they don't need to have verified sources. 0.99
00:13:03 You just say, you know, someone told me that he got a bed with a bunch of Russian hookers who peed on it. 0.99
00:13:08 And they're like, oh my God, that's the story. 0.99
00:13:10 You don't have to verify things when it comes to President Trump.
00:13:14 That has been the case for 12 years.
00:13:16 The elevator story?
00:13:17 You don't remember the elevator story?
00:13:19 Refresh my memory.
00:13:20 A videotape exists somewhere of Trump doing something in an elevator.
00:13:24 What he's doing, no one knows where and when it was.
00:13:27 No one's sure, but no one's even sure it exists.
00:13:30 And I'm like, what?
00:13:32 And people have reported this.
00:13:33 Oh, it's a real story.
00:13:34 It's from the Huffington Post.
00:13:35 Let me see if I can find it. 0.95
00:13:36 And the woman who's suing him for defamation. 0.51
00:13:40 You know, and you still have Democrats say, like, you know, Trump, you know, raped, we have to use the proper language, like this woman.
00:13:46 And it's like, no, she's suing him because she couldn't prove it because she said, like, this was Neiman Marcus at Tuesday at four o'clock.
00:13:54 Like, surprisingly, no one has witnessed this. 1.00
00:13:57 And so he called you a lying slut. 1.00
00:14:00 And now, can I, I don't know if that's a bad word, but. 1.00
00:14:02 This is 2018, right?
00:14:05 Like, I want to ask Tate.
00:14:06 Tate might be.
00:14:07 How old is Tate's like 25, right?
00:14:09 Yeah.
00:14:09 I think.
00:14:10 I'm wondering if, like, Hey, when you were 17, did you read this post?
00:14:14 Huffington Post wrote a tape might exist of Trump doing something in an elevator.
00:14:19 Know exactly where that somewhere is and what that something might be.
00:14:22 No one in media can say.
00:14:24 That's because no one in media seems to have seen the tape or is even confident it exists.
00:14:28 Look at that story.
00:14:29 That's remarkable.
00:14:30 That is.
00:14:31 When you think about that, that's horrifying.
00:14:32 I imagine when Kamala was learning speech writing, she studied this tweet and she was like, How do I say as much?
00:14:39 How do I get as many words in as possible to say as little as possible?
00:14:43 This story may as well say there's rumors of something we're not sure of, so we ignored it.
00:14:47 Like, it's not even a thing.
00:14:50 As soon as you start using might, it's not a story.
00:14:50 Might.
00:14:53 It's not just that.
00:14:54 It's that a tape might exist of something.
00:14:57 Picture in there.
00:14:58 This could be so much work anyway.
00:14:59 I know.
00:14:59 And like Photoshop an image of Trump in an elevator.
00:15:02 You know, this is how this is the thing.
00:15:05 Like, bro, this is eight years ago.
00:15:07 Yeah.
00:15:08 There are a lot of people right now, young Gen Z, that are getting into politics that don't know this.
00:15:12 Yeah.
00:15:12 That don't know this is what we all went through.
00:15:14 Yeah.
00:15:15 Can't believe they didn't take it down.
00:15:16 Or they think this is like the norm of how you do political journalism now, which it kind of has become, unfortunately.
00:15:23 The hunt for every Trump reporter's white whale, the elevator tape.
00:15:28 All of your favorite media outlets plus Tom Arnold are racing to find a damning tape that might not even exist.
00:15:33 Plus, Tom Arnold.
00:15:34 Yeah.
00:15:35 I forgot Tom Arnold was military.
00:15:37 That's right.
00:15:37 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:15:39 I remember him from that movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger in the 90s.
00:15:41 What was it?
00:15:42 True Lies.
00:15:43 Insane, man.
00:15:44 And so I got to just say, like, maybe, just maybe, the news is fake.
00:15:50 Yeah.
00:15:50 I mean, yeah, that news is definitely fake.
00:15:53 100%.
00:15:54 Yeah.
00:15:55 But if you say fake news, right?
00:15:57 I mean, that means you're persona non grata.
00:15:59 You can't participate in the.
00:16:01 In the fake news, it's all fake.
00:16:03 I don't know if that's the case anymore.
00:16:05 There was a time when that was the case.
00:16:07 Yeah.
00:16:07 Yeah.
00:16:08 I mean, the, again, the American people are so untrusting of official narratives, of, you know, the establishment, institutions in general.
00:16:22 The idea that you are going to be punished for saying fake news nowadays, not anymore.
00:16:27 Like, people don't believe anything.
00:16:29 There are people out there that, you know, particularly.
00:16:34 You know, people that are extremely online, like, just if you're repeating something that lines up with an official narrative, they just disregard not just what you're saying, but you at all.
00:16:45 All the time.
00:16:45 Oh, yeah.
00:16:45 Oh, yeah.
00:16:46 I mean, if I, like, especially in a law enforcement context, if I'm talking about a case and I, like, say anything that even remotely resembles what the official narrative is, it's like, oh, you must be getting paid by the end of the year.
00:16:57 Or, like, it's like, guys, like, it's possible to just, like, agree sometimes with the official narrative that everybody's.
00:17:04 Who runs a national journalism center?
00:17:07 So he teaches young people to be journalists.
00:17:08 And it still is a valuable career.
00:17:10 But I remember him saying, as a trained journalist himself, he said one of the downfalls that he saw of media in recent years was do you remember Anonymous, the source Anonymous?
00:17:22 And he said, when the New York Times was running this, saying it was the most senior official, and everyone was going bonkers.
00:17:28 Anonymous is saying all these things, the whole letter in the New York Times.
00:17:32 And then it turns out it was like this kind of low level junior staffer.
00:17:36 And he was like, that the New York Times lied to us that blatantly and said, This is a high ranking Trump official.
00:17:42 He was like, For me, that was the end of trusting the Times.
00:17:45 Like, their editorial staff has to have looked at that and be like, Well, think, and let's just lie and say it's high ranking.
00:17:51 Think about this I could, or not even any, but any journalist could say, I have a source in the government that has revealed to me, insert negative story about Trump, and sue me.
00:18:04 Because when you do, I'll say, I won't give up my sources.
00:18:07 And they'll say, We're going to hold you in contempt.
00:18:08 Then so be it, because I will never reveal my source.
00:18:11 And the truth is, There isn't one.
00:18:13 There never was.
00:18:15 One of my favorite sourcing techniques is you'll hear a story and it'll say, like, a source close to Nancy Pelosi's office reveals that Donald Trump was seen kicking puppies.
00:18:25 And the source close to her office is the homeless guy in the alley who is physically close to her office.
00:18:30 And they won't tell you that.
00:18:31 They'll just say, a source close to her office.
00:18:34 No, it's insane.
00:18:36 I don't think this story is, and quite frankly, I don't really care if it's true.
00:18:41 I think the Secret Service does a better job than worrying about these types of little shenanigans.
00:18:46 I think it's a much more elaborate plot.
00:18:48 To keep the president safe, but do what you have to to keep the president safe.
00:18:51 What I have enjoyed is some of the media meltdowns saying, wait a second, but you still let us board the plane?
00:18:56 And like, yeah, because you're not the president.
00:18:58 Like, no, there's the president and there's everybody else, right?
00:19:00 Like, even the president's staff was still on the plane.
00:19:03 I think the president was on the plane.
00:19:04 I think that story's fake.
00:19:05 I think the story is fake, but I get a kick out of them saying, like, well, if the president was in danger, we were all in danger.
00:19:11 So we all should have been evacuated.
00:19:12 It's like, that's not how it works.
00:19:14 Like, there's the president and then there's everybody else, and get your own Secret Service.
00:19:14 Yeah.
00:19:20 Yeah.
00:19:20 It's salacious, though, the idea of Trump sneaking into a catering truck and then being whisked away.
00:19:26 It's funny.
00:19:28 It is kind of funny to imagine.
00:19:29 But he went out of the kitchen.
00:19:31 But also at the same time, I mean, like, this is a guy who's had multiple attempts made on his life recently.
00:19:35 He got shot in the head, literally.
00:19:37 Harrison Ford is in a pod, remember?
00:19:39 Harrison Ford got in the pod and then he shut down.
00:19:42 He didn't actually get in the pod, though, right?
00:19:43 He stayed on the plane.
00:19:44 Oh, he fought that.
00:19:45 That's right.
00:19:46 He stayed on the plane.
00:19:47 So they tried to get off my plane and then he kicks the guy up.
00:19:49 And again, if you're, you know, we're.
00:19:51 If we're going to, you know, do the dangerous work of believing the official story, this isn't the first time that, you know, since the Iran war started, actually, maybe even prior, but Trump has alleged to have been targeted by Iran before. 0.60
00:20:06 So I, and look, whether or not you believe the official story, it's completely within reason to think that Iran is looking to do this. 0.59
00:20:16 Look at how many of the leadership of Iran, the United States has, has, You know, managed to take out in multiple different ways, whether it be, you know, the big strikes that the two, well, since February 28th or last year, or when they got the leader of the IRGC when he was in Iraq, when they shot the Ginsu Hellfire at him, you know, the one that doesn't have any explosives that just shoots knives out the side, which I mean, 0.65
00:20:46 I'm surprised as hell that that exists. 0.52
00:20:48 But at the same time, it's like if you're looking to reduce collateral damage, if you're not looking to blow things up and you want to have, you want to be able to just target the one person.
00:20:58 That is, as far as war goes, that's probably the most responsible way the United States has ever dropped a bomb in its history, right?
00:21:06 Is it a bomb if it doesn't explode?
00:21:08 Well, yeah, targeted attack, I guess.
00:21:11 And they have secretly moved the president before, right?
00:21:14 Remember when Bush went to Iraq during the war, I think for Thanksgiving?
00:21:19 And afterwards, they said how clandestine operation he did fly on an Air Force fighter jet, road shotgun, basically, and obviously dark of cover.
00:21:30 But they told all those details after the fact when the president was back on the White House.
00:21:33 He flew in a fighter?
00:21:34 Well, he was a pilot.
00:21:34 I don't.
00:21:36 My father was.
00:21:38 No, he was.
00:21:39 W wasn't.
00:21:40 W wasn't.
00:21:40 Yeah, like they flew Air Force One to, I think, like Greenland, and this was all at like 2 in the morning.
00:21:45 Yeah.
00:21:45 And then he took a fighter jet, landed in Baghdad or something like that.
00:21:49 I wonder if that was his idea.
00:21:50 How about if you just fly me over there?
00:21:52 That's the coolest Uber ride ever.
00:21:54 They have done secret stuff for the president.
00:21:56 Put me in an F 15.
00:21:57 Plus, I also don't think they would give away the tactics.
00:21:59 You know, like, no.
00:22:00 Now we're going to always be targeting.
00:22:02 That's something that's always bothering me.
00:22:04 About reporting like this.
00:22:06 There's something un American about it where you're reporting on the tactics that we use to maintain national security to keep the president safe, right?
00:22:13 It's like, even if you thought it was a good story, I don't know.
00:22:15 There's like, isn't there something that suggests that you should just keep it to yourself for America's sake?
00:22:20 Like, are you not an American first?
00:22:21 Yeah.
00:22:22 No.
00:22:22 One only wonders if the terrorists know about the open vent in the left closet.
00:22:26 Right.
00:22:27 Yeah.
00:22:29 They don't have to reveal all the information.
00:22:31 But like, seriously, I could see the New York Times running a story like that, just talking about like, oh, we discovered this like vulnerability and then.
00:22:37 The Secret Service learning about that in the New York Times as opposed to.
00:22:41 Yeah.
00:22:41 Let's jump to this next story.
00:22:43 Trump issues a vague response to the idea for a national emergency ahead of the midterm.
00:22:48 He's being interviewed, and this host on Rav says in INSV, what was it?
00:22:54 The Akata or whatever?
00:22:57 I don't know.
00:22:58 I forgot the name of the case.
00:22:59 Let me pull it up, actually, because I feel stupid forgetting it.
00:23:02 Wiki INSV.
00:23:06 Basically, he said it's Chata.
00:23:08 Sorry. 1.00
00:23:09 Seems obvious.
00:23:10 If Trump were to declare a national emergency, there's no veto power of either branch.
00:23:14 They can't just vote to stop it.
00:23:17 So, a national emergency requires two thirds of the House and the Senate to override, which means that if within a month of the election, Trump declares a national emergency on elections, requiring voter ID and all of these things, they would not be able to muster up the political capital to actually stop Trump from doing it.
00:23:33 Trump said, let me just say, stranger things have happened.
00:23:35 Now, my response is that Trump doesn't need to do this because the DSA is burning down the Democrats four to one.
00:23:42 It's something like when polled, the unfavorability of the DSA for independence is like 71 to 75%.
00:23:52 When asked who they'd rather vote for, they lean Republican over DSA.
00:23:57 So, Zoran Mandani recently lost his Peter Teer thing.
00:24:00 The judge shot a Democrat judge, he was like, You can't do this.
00:24:02 It's not working.
00:24:04 And we are seeing these far lefties win in New York and now in Michigan, potentially Wisconsin, Colorado.
00:24:12 There's a viral video where the guy says, DSA's kryptonite is literally asking them about their campaign positions.
00:24:19 And this guy says to this woman, You want to defund the police and abolish prison?
00:24:23 She's like, Yes.
00:24:23 And he goes, So if my daughter is assaulted and raped, what agency would stop him?
00:24:28 And if not, he says, If not the police, what agency would stop him?
00:24:30 And if not jail, where would he go?
00:24:32 And she's like, Well, I don't want to get caught up in these hypotheticals.
00:24:35 Because I know that's never happened.
00:24:36 So the point is, maybe Trump does want to just suspend, you know, like by national emergency, some of these, you know, or I don't know, suspend is not the right word, but.
00:24:47 Implement controls on the election.
00:24:48 I don't know that he would need to do it, but what do you guys think?
00:24:50 You think Trump would pull that off?
00:24:52 If he made an executive order under a national emergency saying that you must produce an ID that proves that you're an American citizen, I would have zero problem with it.
00:25:05 And I think he would get away with it because 80% of Americans believe that the SAVE Act should be passed.
00:25:11 I think that it would be, I think that most Americans, the people that don't like Trump, they would obviously not like it because they don't like Trump.
00:25:17 But Overall, in the grand scheme of things, I don't think that there would be significant political repercussions because most Americans say we want the SAVE Act passed.
00:25:28 The House has already passed the SAVE Act.
00:25:32 They've tried to attach to multiple.
00:25:34 The thing that's holding it up is the Senate.
00:25:36 And I think that he would be able to get away with it.
00:25:38 He would catch hell, definitely, but he would be able to get away with it.
00:25:42 The White House updated their election integrity page earlier today when I was working on my morning show covering this issue particularly.
00:25:50 And they've added a lot.
00:25:52 Good.
00:25:53 It does look like there's a possibility that with Trump's address and all of these issues, the White House is laying the groundwork to be able to declare a national emergency, saying, look at the evidence we have of non citizen voters, non citizens on state voter rolls, the Oxford comma documents, America up a data breach, March toll, DOJ and DHS election enforcement actions.
00:26:16 When you look at this map they have of all the enforcement actions they've done, it looks like he might say, we have.
00:26:24 You know, 47 lawsuits right now over all of these issues that have not been resolved.
00:26:29 We must declare an emergency.
00:26:31 Otherwise, our election is compromised.
00:26:33 Yep.
00:26:33 See, some of the most vocal opponents to this law.
00:26:37 The first one I go to is Michigan Senator Elise Slotkins. 0.74
00:26:41 And she won by something like 60,000 votes for her Senate race.
00:26:45 But there are some 400,000 fraudulent voter files in Michigan. 0.96
00:26:50 So if she is adamant, like, we can't have this, women and minorities won't be able to vote.
00:26:55 It's like, or.
00:26:56 The 400,000 people who probably voted for you to make up the Delta.
00:27:01 So, when you compare the ones who are most vociferous to their level of margin of victory proportional to their state's electoral fraud, it's like, well, of course you don't want this because this is how you plan on winning.
00:27:11 Exactly.
00:27:12 I think the general public, like you said, is going to be okay with the idea of requiring this.
00:27:17 I just don't trust the media to sort of allow him to maintain control over the narrative.
00:27:22 I think within 24 hours, people are going to be painting this as him suspending elections, as him taking things over, and people are going to lose.
00:27:30 They're not going to vote for him anyway.
00:27:30 Their minds.
00:27:32 They won't vote for him, right?
00:27:33 But it's not him on the ballot in the midterms.
00:27:35 So they'll be like, to show our opposition to President Trump, we're going to vote for the Democrats.
00:27:40 It's like, well, you were going to vote for the Democrats.
00:27:42 There are a lot of people on the fence, though, who I think would be turned off by it.
00:27:45 I don't know.
00:27:45 It's a risk.
00:27:46 All I'm saying is that it's a risk.
00:27:47 Oh, definitely.
00:27:49 There are a lot of people who I think support that.
00:27:51 I think voter ID makes sense.
00:27:53 I think it's crazy that I, not only can I, do I not need an ID to go into vote.
00:27:57 If I show my ID in New York, it's like cryptic.
00:28:00 Get it away from me.
00:28:01 I don't want to see it.
00:28:02 That's nuts to me.
00:28:02 Right.
00:28:03 But I also think like there's a major political risk here if he does this.
00:28:06 I've said, I've been asserting that we need Donald Trump to be more like Lincoln to do the things necessary to make sure that he basically we save America.
00:28:19 Right.
00:28:20 Like, no kidding around.
00:28:21 I'll tell you why I'm laughing when you're done.
00:28:24 You know, it's like the DSA and the far left of the Democrat Party, they want to do things that are Actually, prohibited by the Constitution.
00:28:36 They want to get rid of the Senate, which you can't do.
00:28:38 That's the one thing, and I keep repeating this on the show, but there's only one thing that you can't do via amendment, and that's get rid of the Senate.
00:28:46 That's take away the votes of the senators of the several states.
00:28:51 You cannot amend that away.
00:28:53 You cannot get rid of that without abolishing the whole Constitution.
00:28:57 So you have to get rid of the entire Constitution to get rid of the Senate.
00:29:00 And the DSA has said over and over and over they want to get rid of the Senate.
00:29:04 They want to get rid of the Electoral College.
00:29:07 They want to get rid of the Supreme Court.
00:29:09 They want to get rid of the Supreme Court?
00:29:12 They want to make something like subordinate to Congress. 0.99
00:29:14 Yeah.
00:29:15 So it's not traditional judiciary.
00:29:17 Much more the way European parliamentaries work, that the Supreme Court is a branch of the.
00:29:23 It's like the Judiciary Committee of the parliament.
00:29:25 But the point, I guess, that I'm making here is these people are a threat to the actual republic.
00:29:35 Okay, they're not just looking to make changes around the edges.
00:29:38 They don't just want health care for everybody.
00:29:42 They specifically say in their literature to DSA members to misrepresent, to lie about what their policies are when you're actually out on the stump talking to voters.
00:29:52 They are doing, they will do everything they can to take away the republic that we have and totally destroy it.
00:30:01 So we need someone like Lincoln who's willing to do what's necessary to protect the United States of America from what would amount to authoritarians.
00:30:13 Liberals, liberalism doesn't have a means to defeat authoritarians, but they're getting flattened.
00:30:21 That's the thing.
00:30:21 I mean, we are seeing them win locally.
00:30:24 And so that is a problem because, you know, they say act locally, think globally, right?
00:30:28 The issue is that when you affect localities, it trickles up.
00:30:32 So we do have this issue, but, you know, even AOC is trying to distance herself.
00:30:36 Abdul Al Sayed is trying to distance himself.
00:30:38 I wonder if.
00:30:39 He's a DSA member, right?
00:30:40 I mean.
00:30:40 Who is?
00:30:41 No, I wouldn't even say he's a DSA.
00:30:41 Abdul Al Sayed.
00:30:43 Yeah, he's not.
00:30:44 But they campaigned for him.
00:30:45 Right.
00:30:46 So they're trying to get away from this branding.
00:30:48 The question is going into the midterms now, will this have enough of an impact to prevent Democrats from winning?
00:30:55 Will the Democrats themselves, who are dumping millions of dollars to stop the DSA, succeed in pushing them back?
00:31:01 And more importantly, in 2028, are we going to see with this new Tucker third party and again, the Democrats, the moderate Democrats, are launching massive multi million dollar efforts to stop the DSA?
00:31:12 They don't have that money either, which is the remarkable thing.
00:31:15 They're going into debt.
00:31:16 Will this, I mean, will the Democratic Party just become a shell of its former self?
00:31:20 Oldest political party in the world, they don't last forever.
00:31:22 Yeah.
00:31:23 No, I think you're absolutely right.
00:31:25 They are tearing themselves apart, and that's a.
00:31:27 A good and welcome thing.
00:31:29 The DSA co chair was on that video a couple days ago, which was supposed to be a serious podcast.
00:31:34 And she's laughing, saying how we're all in favor of taxing the hell out of the rich.
00:31:39 And the guy says, Could you explain that?
00:31:41 And she's like, Well, I haven't really figured out exactly.
00:31:44 And he says, But shouldn't you, though?
00:31:46 Like, you're the co chair.
00:31:47 And she laughs, We're going to tax the hell out of the rich. 0.99
00:31:50 Big, large woman. 1.00
00:31:52 And you say, Looking at that, you just want punishment. 1.00
00:31:57 Like, you don't have a tax policy in mind.
00:32:00 You just want It's a whole principle built on envy and hatred.
00:32:05 You just hate these people.
00:32:06 That's the problem with the DSA.
00:32:08 They're not motivated by any coherent policy.
00:32:12 They're picking up on energy, we hate the rich.
00:32:17 And you don't want to start a class war in the United States.
00:32:20 There are 800 billionaires in the United States.
00:32:23 That's it, right?
00:32:24 And they control something like $7 trillion, which is a lot of money, right?
00:32:29 But the whole U.S. economy is.
00:32:32 Is worth something like $169 trillion.
00:32:36 So the billionaires don't have nearly enough money to fix the problems that the DSA say that they're going to fix.
00:32:43 So you know what that means?
00:32:44 You have to go after the millionaires.
00:32:46 And then you have to go after the hundred millionaires.
00:32:50 So maybe there's a couple more thousand of those.
00:32:52 But it doesn't, like the math doesn't work out.
00:32:58 And what you end up doing is you take the property from the people that provide jobs to the middle class.
00:33:05 And you will destroy the economy and destroy the country when you turn the people that are envious, angry, when you turn those people against the wealthy, the rich people that are the actual people that create the jobs, you will destroy the country that way.
00:33:21 And I understand the people's point.
00:33:23 Yeah, that's totally the point.
00:33:25 Their entire point is destroy the country and then we'll build something new from the ashes.
00:33:30 Right.
00:33:30 They want to build utopia.
00:33:31 In order to build utopia, they have to tear everything else down.
00:33:33 Yes.
00:33:34 But the Democratic Party's.
00:33:36 Biggest problem is that they don't have any real principles that they're defending here, right?
00:33:39 They have spent the last generation or two essentially just chasing power for its own sake, which means that they don't have a coherent response to the DSA, which actually does have a mission statement that people are sort of getting behind.
00:33:53 It's inspiring to people.
00:33:54 They're building community around these things, right?
00:33:56 Even if they haven't thought about the ideas themselves, there's like this sort of communitarian aspect where it's almost like a club of membership and it's fun and people are making friends and dating.
00:34:06 And what's the Democratic Party's answer to that?
00:34:08 What exactly are they defending?
00:34:10 Against the takeover from the DSA.
00:34:11 And they don't have that real statement of principles that sort of distinguishes the Democrats.
00:34:17 They have, right now, or for 10 years, their position has been we are not President Trump.
00:34:22 They had their four year window for Biden.
00:34:25 And if there were successes out of that, they would run on it.
00:34:28 And when they had the chance to, which was Vice President Harris, even she wouldn't run on it.
00:34:32 She talked about what we will do going into the future.
00:34:35 It was like, well, this is where we are now.
00:34:36 And this has been your administration.
00:34:38 The borders, the economy.
00:34:40 Time to turn the page.
00:34:42 And I forget what interview that was when she said that.
00:34:44 And the moderator, surprised, look, Tim, there are still a lot of journalists out there.
00:34:48 The moderator was like, but turn the page, but this is your page.
00:34:52 And she was so like, and she just laughed.
00:34:56 That's the problem is they don't have a message other than, we hate President Trump.
00:35:00 Now, that may work, but it's been 12 years.
00:35:03 It's so boring.
00:35:05 But it's worse than that because it's not just that the Democrats don't have a message, the Democrats have no way to defend.
00:35:12 Defend themselves from the far left.
00:35:15 And they don't have a way to do it without sounding like the right.
00:35:18 I mean, what are the.
00:35:19 I'm serious.
00:35:19 Like, you know what I mean?
00:35:20 Like, what's the pushback on the DSA's economic plan if not a free market action device?
00:35:26 That's why they're going to lose.
00:35:28 The DSA and the far left are going to take over the Democrats.
00:35:32 Mark my words.
00:35:33 They are going to be the future of the Democrat Party unless there's some significant changes to the way that the economics of this country have played out.
00:35:44 And that's not going to happen. 0.97
00:35:46 Because the boomers have all the property or the majority of the property, right? 0.99
00:35:51 Kids still feel like they can't get houses. 0.99
00:35:54 The wages that people are making have not increased significantly.
00:35:58 The dollar doesn't go as far as it did just five years ago, right?
00:36:02 Like because of the inflation that happened after COVID.
00:36:05 Burritos.
00:36:06 Yeah, everything is.
00:36:07 I mean, as much as that's a silly thing to talk about, and it was fun to make jokes about, it is legitimate.
00:36:13 Now, look, the American people are more wealthy than.
00:36:17 Any other country, the people in all, like the people in the poorest state in the United States, in Mississippi, still make more money per capita than the average person in the UK, right?
00:36:29 So the average poor person in America is wealthier than the average person in the UK.
00:36:35 Not the average poor person, but the average person in the UK.
00:36:39 So, like, this stuff is like you, but you can't make the argument to someone that feels like they're hurting.
00:36:47 The DSA are going to take over.
00:36:51 The Democrat Party, because the Democrats don't have the thick skin that the Republicans have.
00:36:55 Look, you can go back to when George Bush or Mitt Romney were running and they were being called Nazis.
00:37:00 They were being called racist.
00:37:02 Republicans, conservatives, we have very, very thick skin to this stuff.
00:37:06 We can just be like, whatever, we don't care.
00:37:08 Democrats don't.
00:37:11 They've always been the ones to fold as soon as the further left attacked them.
00:37:18 The people that got canceled and the people that really kind of bent the knee.
00:37:24 Significant, in significant numbers, it was all Democrats.
00:37:27 Because they didn't have any way to defend themselves.
00:37:28 You know, it would be curious to see at the federal level, at the national level.
00:37:33 So we have to look at 2028.
00:37:36 Bernie twice was going to be the DSA candidate, and twice the establishment effed him because they were like, We are not letting Bernie because he won't win nationally.
00:37:45 So now it's we have DSA on the rise now, 2027, 2028.
00:37:50 Now we get to the nominating convention.
00:37:52 Are the super delegates once again going to swoop in and be like, It is not AOC, it is Gavin Newsom because we have changed the rules?
00:38:00 Like the party establishment could be the final death knell for the DSA.
00:38:03 It's good that, well, I don't, I, I don't think that that'll happen in the short term.
00:38:07 Like maybe it will in the next election, but in the following presidential election, the Democrat, the DSA will have the mojo by then because they're having enough wins at a local level where people are looking and saying, maybe these DSA guys are onto something, first of all.
00:38:23 But you bring up Bernie Sanders, and that's a great segue to this.
00:38:27 Like you look at the way that Bernie Sanders folded when those two women got on stage and were yelling at him and took the mic from him.
00:38:35 And he was like, you wait, you wait.
00:38:37 And he had no way.
00:38:39 To defend himself.
00:38:40 He had a way.
00:38:41 He just didn't have the stones to act.
00:38:44 No Democrats do.
00:38:47 They don't have the courage to stand up and say, no, you're not going to, because all of the stuff, the intestinal fortitude that it takes to do that, toxic masculinity, or you're a white supremacist, they'll throw all the names at him, and then the response is going to be like, oh. 0.59
00:39:06 Which is why the Trump line against Hillary when he takes the mic and goes, you'll be in jail.
00:39:10 That's why that was such an iconic moment, because it was like, Wait, we don't say those things.
00:39:14 Like, they're allowed to call us Nazis and racists, and you just have to stand there and listen to it.
00:39:20 That was the first time.
00:39:20 It was like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
00:39:22 People didn't know how to respond to that.
00:39:24 Now they are kind of used to it.
00:39:27 It's also why, Tim, you were saying how they want to abolish everything, right?
00:39:29 And abolish this and abolish that.
00:39:31 It's also why abolishing the electoral college is so important because the electoral college will protect the nation from, but not if it's gone, right?
00:39:38 If it's just a popular vote, then the electoral college is one more check.
00:39:43 Shows you the genius of our founders, right?
00:39:44 Who thought, like, We could have some crazy thing.
00:39:47 We could have a monarchist populist movement, and we don't want that.
00:39:50 So the electoral college protects.
00:39:53 No, I'm saying the founders back in 76.
00:39:56 Oh, no, I'm a monarchist.
00:40:00 Actually, the right person.
00:40:02 As long as it's the right one.
00:40:03 Me.
00:40:05 The thing that bothers me about the push to abolish everything is the hubris that undergirds it.
00:40:10 The DSA types think that they are the smartest people in the world, insofar as they believe they've actually discovered the solutions to poverty.
00:40:18 Economic inequality, uh, predation, all of these things that have characterized every human civilization that's ever existed at every point in history, everywhere on the globe.
00:40:28 They think, Oh, no, we can figure it out and we can usher in utopia if you just give us enough power.
00:40:33 Like, not enough people understand how insane.
00:40:36 Do they really think that?
00:40:37 I don't think they actually think that.
00:40:39 I don't think they think that.
00:40:40 I think I spent uh, because well, uh, I think we were going to say the same thing.
00:40:40 I don't.
00:40:43 I've been in their planning meetings, I've been at their protests, yeah, and the there certainly are the low level people, but those are like you know. 0.60
00:40:51 Orcs and Urukai. 0.90
00:40:52 They're not the Nazgul. 0.96
00:40:55 Still servants, but cognizant of what they're doing. 0.99
00:40:58 These people that I've met will explicitly tell you to your face these are mechanisms by which we can strip the confidence in the system, burn it down, and make something different.
00:41:07 No, yeah, I think that's what they want to do.
00:41:09 But I think they believe that the different thing that they make is going to be effective.
00:41:13 It's going to be good.
00:41:14 It's not going to be characteristic of the same thing.
00:41:16 Every socialist in history has thought that.
00:41:19 The reason, right, I disagree.
00:41:21 And the reason why is.
00:41:22 During Occupy Wall Street, when I was at the planning meetings for these facilitators, they would like to say in the press, We're going to flip the pyramid over.
00:41:29 To the average person, they imagine you have a pyramid, you flip it over, the working class are on top, and the landlords and the buyers are all on the bottom. 0.61
00:41:37 There's very few of them. 0.96
00:41:39 I was the only one, I guess, with multi ordered thinking and said, when you flip a pyramid over, the bricks crumble and it forms just a shittier pyramid.
00:41:47 And they were like, right, but we're on top.
00:41:50 Yeah. 1.00
00:41:50 Literally, the plan is you have all the working class on the bottom, you invert the pyramid, the bricks crumble down, and those that can remain on top will be us. 1.00
00:42:00 They were under no illusions they were going to solve any problems. 1.00
00:42:03 Or fix anything.
00:42:04 It was, this is how we become billionaires.
00:42:07 This is how we become rich.
00:42:08 Yeah.
00:42:09 And this is why when people say, like, Bernie is a socialist or a communist, I often push back and say he's really not.
00:42:09 It's wild.
00:42:16 He's a party leader because communism is awful if you're stuck in it.
00:42:20 But communism is great if you're the Communist Party officials.
00:42:23 At the height of the Soviet decline, which is one of my favorite oxymorons, at the height of the Soviet decline, the party leaders never wanted for vodka or caviar or blue jeans or rock and roll, right?
00:42:35 So, like, Bernie sees himself with his four mansions and his private jet use.
00:42:39 Like, I want socialism for everybody, but not for me.
00:42:43 Like, I'm on a private jet.
00:42:44 And when he was asked about the private jet, he said, Do you really think I'm going to be on United Airlines?
00:42:49 Like, he was adamant that, like, do you know who I am?
00:42:52 I am not getting on United Airlines.
00:42:55 So, they don't really want even socialism.
00:42:57 They just want power.
00:42:59 They want power.
00:43:01 Everyone envisions the revolution being like, We're going to overthrow the Tsar and take the palace, and I'll sleep in his bed.
00:43:01 Yeah.
00:43:07 Right.
00:43:07 Yeah.
00:43:08 I tell you what, they do have a ton of true believers.
00:43:09 I mean, because I have been just absolutely floored by some of the things I've heard.
00:43:12 I was at UC Berkeley a couple years ago with the great Heather McDonald.
00:43:15 We were debating these police abolitionists.
00:43:17 Oh, boy.
00:43:18 And it was, I mean, you know, throwing us to the wolves.
00:43:20 I mean, we were.
00:43:21 We were out alive, though.
00:43:22 We did.
00:43:23 I mean, look, none of them lift or eat any protein.
00:43:25 So it's fine.
00:43:27 They're not all that dangerous.
00:43:29 But no, I mean, like, I remember debating these police abolitionists.
00:43:32 They literally got up and said, well, look, we're the hopeful ones.
00:43:35 Like, if we can just give people everything that they need, no one will ever need to commit a crime.
00:43:41 They have no grasp, no sense of what human nature actually is, which is really the divide between left and right when you boil it down.
00:43:46 It's just a fundamental disagreement about human nature.
00:43:49 I actually think, by modern standards, the way we use the words left and right, it means are you in the matrix or out of it?
00:43:55 So if you are a card carrying communist who says the Biden administration was corrupt, letting in illegal immigrants, and Joe Biden himself flew to Ukraine and threatened to illegally withhold loan guarantees so that a prosecutor would stop investigating his son, they go, you're a conservative.
00:44:12 Like, you can literally be wearing Mao uniform.
00:44:15 Like, if Hassan came out and said true things about what was going on in the world, they'd be like, Whoa, he's going right wing.
00:44:22 What's going on?
00:44:24 Because they don't mean conservative values.
00:44:26 They mean, Do you believe?
00:44:28 Alternative.
00:44:28 Yeah.
00:44:29 Do you believe?
00:44:30 Yeah.
00:44:30 Are you in the cult or not?
00:44:31 Yeah.
00:44:32 That's it.
00:44:33 Yeah.
00:44:33 And do you measure your successes against some theory?
00:44:37 And that's where the left will always have the advantage over the right, is because they can say, Yes, but we could.
00:44:43 Do this.
00:44:43 We will do this.
00:44:44 If we're able to do this, this is what the future will be.
00:44:47 And you say, Well, show us an example of where it's ever worked.
00:44:49 They don't want to have those conversations.
00:44:50 Well, because it's never really been tried.
00:44:52 I'll show you that example.
00:44:52 Exactly.
00:44:53 Or it has been implemented properly.
00:44:54 So it's always the benchmark is the idea. 0.93
00:44:59 And that's why also it tends to be the ideology of very young people and losers. 0.71
00:45:04 Yeah.
00:45:05 Because you live in this fantasy land like, you know what, man, like one day I'm going to marry this hot chick and live in a mansion.
00:45:12 And that's adorable when you're like 15, but now you're 40.
00:45:16 And you're like, one day I'm going to have.
00:45:18 Well, if you're not getting your hands dirty, it's never going to happen.
00:45:20 And then you say, well, you know why?
00:45:21 It's because of the systems.
00:45:23 Well, yeah.
00:45:23 Everything is stacked against me.
00:45:24 That's why it's like, you're just a loser. 1.00
00:45:27 You always will be a loser. 1.00
00:45:29 I've made this argument on the show a bunch of times. 0.99
00:45:33 The reason why America is the greatest country that has ever existed is because we have, up until maybe 50 years ago, we always attracted people that believed that they happened to the world.
00:45:48 The world does not happen to them.
00:45:50 People that wanted to come to America, they wanted to come here because they believed that they could make something.
00:45:57 Of themselves, if they could just get the yoke of the government off of them, throw, get the Lord or whatever off their back, they could do something in the world and they would happen to America.
00:46:14 And because when you have a country full of people that are willing to take big risks and take the chance that they can happen to the world, they can do something great, you're going to have an outnumbered amount of people that succeed at that.
00:46:32 When you have people coming to the United States that are looking for someone to take care of them, you fundamentally change what America is.
00:46:41 And people that are on the left are not people that believe, generally, they are not people that believe that they happen to the world.
00:46:49 They believe the world happens to them.
00:46:50 The reason that I haven't been successful is because of some outside force.
00:46:55 It's not because I've done something.
00:46:57 Yeah.
00:46:58 It's exactly the explanation, right?
00:46:59 It's the fixed pie fallacy, right?
00:47:00 If I don't have it, it's because someone else has that thing that I deserve.
00:47:03 But I think a lot of people are just turned off by the fact.
00:47:06 The fact that they're experiencing downward mobility for the first time in a string of generations, right?
00:47:10 I mean, you have people who, for every generation, we always expected to do better than our parents.
00:47:14 And now these kids who had everything going into childhood and through childhood are going to school, they're getting degrees, they're checking boxes, but they're not living in the five bedroom, three bathroom house that they're living in the Seventh Heaven.
00:47:24 I think that's a myth.
00:47:24 I think that's a myth.
00:47:26 Why?
00:47:27 Because you had a Great Depression, then you had two world wars, then you had the Cold War with multiple proxy conflicts and conscription in the Civil Rights era.
00:47:37 Every generation in the past hundred years was going through some violent conflict.
00:47:41 No, no, I'm not saying that they're right.
00:47:43 What's really happened, in my opinion, is that millennials grew up in the 90s watching a massive economic expansion after the fall of the Soviet Union and US global New World Order dominance.
00:47:53 And it was really good for like 10 years.
00:47:56 And then things started to retract again.
00:47:58 And all of a sudden they were like, how come things are bad now?
00:48:02 But if you go back to like, and it's fascinating because I wasn't alive, I'm sorry, I was alive in the 80s, but I was not lucid in the 80s.
00:48:09 And what were the interest rates?
00:48:11 Like 12 to 20%?
00:48:12 Like some insane inflation was.
00:48:13 My parents bought their house like 15%.
00:48:14 I think they hit it.
00:48:16 Just psychotic inflation.
00:48:18 And I know that the DSA people like to look back and say, like, but the buying ratio was like two and a half times your yearly salary to buy a house.
00:48:26 And I'm like, yes, yes, yes.
00:48:28 But every generation has its principal challenges.
00:48:32 So, sure.
00:48:33 Oh, but the boomers, and the boomers got drafted and went to Vietnam and came back with PTSD and all of that stuff.
00:48:39 And you had the Korean War.
00:48:40 And obviously, you go back further, you had.
00:48:43 The world wars, there was bad stuff happening to everybody the whole time.
00:48:48 And what happens is we look back on history with rose tinted goggles about we only see the beauty of it and we ignore the problems. 0.84
00:48:55 Now, I would say the problem of the DSA is they're liars.
00:48:58 So they romanticize the good economic things they can find and then they demonize the cultural things.
00:49:05 And they like to simultaneously play this game where they say, When was America ever great?
00:49:10 And the response you should have is, When you, DSA, posted that.
00:49:16 The price of a home on average was two and a half times a worker's salary.
00:49:20 That's what we're talking about.
00:49:22 But the problem is when you say we want to make America great again, they go, huh, you mean like the Klan?
00:49:27 And it's like, okay, you want to, that is the dark side, right?
00:49:32 I always try to look on the bright side of things.
00:49:34 You know, you hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
00:49:36 So when I say America used to be great, I am not talking about the cultural issues.
00:49:40 I'm talking about the economic stuff. 0.52
00:49:42 The war was bad, civil rights stuff was crazy.
00:49:45 When the left does it, they invert it.
00:49:47 When they say America is, they talk about all the bad things and ignore all the good things.
00:49:51 Today, they don't talk about the good things, they only talk about the bad things.
00:49:53 And the frustrating thing is you can't have a serious conversation, even on this type of a podcast, because When you have one of their leaders who is Congresswoman Ocasio Cortez, and I will get to her in a second, but when she says things seriously like, well, you know, the Senate is like a remnant of Jim Crow.
00:50:10 Wait, wait, wait, wait.
00:50:11 Did she actually say that?
00:50:12 Oh, God, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:50:13 That was a couple days ago.
00:50:13 The Senate.
00:50:14 The Senate is like, or she said, a relic or a vestige or a product of Jim Crow.
00:50:19 And you say, not only are you 150 years off his life. 0.89
00:50:22 I was going to say, yeah.
00:50:23 150?
00:50:24 I mean, the Senate.
00:50:25 Let's go back to the concept of the Senate as the founding fathers proposed it to ancient Rome.
00:50:29 It's ancient Rome, even.
00:50:30 Yeah, yeah. 1.00
00:50:30 You're a few thousand years off, ladies. 1.00
00:50:32 How do I begin to debate with you? 1.00
00:50:34 Like, the Senate is a product of Jim Crow. 0.86
00:50:36 Like, I don't. 0.77
00:50:37 So, you would get so caught off guard by the asininity of that that now she's won and people are laughing and they're like, woohoo, Jim Crow. 0.86
00:50:47 And you're like, I don't have a retort because I'm the real problem is that we let anybody vote. 0.63
00:50:54 Yep.
00:50:55 Yes. 0.90
00:50:56 Which is why we need the executive order.
00:50:59 What I was laughing at when you were speaking, and I don't want to interrupt you, is I've been thinking in my mind of a campaign to sort of.
00:51:05 Reclaim the phrase dictator from the ancient Rome.
00:51:07 Like the dictator was a great title.
00:51:09 It was a noble title.
00:51:10 Cinchinatus, right?
00:51:12 We need Jeremy Ryan Slate here to help give us the dictator.
00:51:15 Like dictator wasn't a bad phrase.
00:51:17 And now we've made it this pejorative.
00:51:19 It's like, well, if you know you're ancient Rome, like the dictator came in in these crucial moments for a temporary period and was like, whatever I say goes.
00:51:19 He's a dictator.
00:51:28 We're going to fix things. 0.99
00:51:28 Everyone shut the hell up. 0.99
00:51:30 And I'm like, I kind of want to go back just like a little small period of time.
00:51:35 That's why I say we need another Lincoln.
00:51:37 Yes.
00:51:37 A lot of people are throwing around some names that people talk about, Pinochet, and make jokes about helicopters, and they talk about, like, Franco and stuff.
00:51:45 Franco Friday, Jackie Sobastu is doing that.
00:51:47 Look, Franco stayed in position of authority in Spain until he died.
00:51:54 You don't.
00:51:55 And then it just melted into a republic.
00:51:57 But he also invited back in the monarchy, though.
00:51:59 Hold on.
00:52:00 But Americans think of fascism and they think that it's bad, right?
00:52:05 And that's not going to change.
00:52:07 You're not going to convince your average person that.
00:52:09 You know, fascism is good.
00:52:11 You're just not.
00:52:12 Like, and messaging is interesting.
00:52:14 There's a distinction between Spain and Italy.
00:52:17 Well, Spain, Italy, and to be honest with you, the Nazis were fascist.
00:52:17 Yeah.
00:52:21 They were a special, unique kind of fascism, but they were also fascist.
00:52:25 So, like, I don't agree with that.
00:52:27 The American people think of Hitler as a fascist.
00:52:29 I understand that.
00:52:30 The point that I made about messaging.
00:52:32 Agreed, agreed.
00:52:33 I'm just saying, I think we want to make sure, you know, they also say two plus two equals five, you know, on these leftists.
00:52:39 Fascism and Nazism were distinct.
00:52:41 You know, there's a plethora of right wing ideologies and authoritarian ideologies.
00:52:46 But it's like all Mustangs are Fords, but not all Fords are Mustangs.
00:52:50 But so the point that I'm making is we shouldn't be talking about Franco.
00:52:54 We shouldn't be talking about Pinochet.
00:52:56 We should be talking about Lincoln.
00:52:59 Because every American thinks of Lincoln as one of the greatest presidents that we've ever had.
00:53:05 And Lincoln was capable of doing what was necessary to save the Union.
00:53:12 And that was the way that he looked at it.
00:53:14 So if you make the argument, we want Franco Friday, we want Franco, we want Pinochet, no, we don't need that at all.
00:53:21 We need another Abraham Lincoln.
00:53:23 Abraham Lincoln is on Mount Rushmore for a reason.
00:53:26 Americans think of him as a great man, and everybody knows that he suspended habeas corpus.
00:53:33 Everyone knows that he put some journalists in jail, but they're fine with it because he saved the Union.
00:53:40 We need another Lincoln, and that's a message that Americans can get behind.
00:53:44 The very first Republican, the very first Republican, that's a message that Americans can get behind.
00:53:53 Quote of He Who Saves His Nation Breaks No Wall.
00:53:56 Napoleon, right?
00:53:56 Napoleon, yeah.
00:53:57 He's posted that a couple times on his official account.
00:54:01 He's right.
00:54:02 Yes.
00:54:02 He is right.
00:54:03 Abraham Lincoln was nuts. 0.98
00:54:05 He arrested a third of the Maryland legislature. 0.95
00:54:09 He suspended habeas corpus.
00:54:10 Maryland.
00:54:11 I mean, sure.
00:54:13 That's Maryland.
00:54:14 Because Delaware and Maryland were slave states, he said, Iron fist for all of you.
00:54:19 He conscripted people.
00:54:22 He threatened to imprison a sitting Supreme Court justice.
00:54:26 When he suspended habeas corpus, he did so with no constitutional authority.
00:54:30 The Constitution reserves that power to Congress.
00:54:32 And after he eliminated his enemies in the opposition, he then had Congress retroactively approve what he did two years later.
00:54:43 He arrested those who opposed him and then said to Congress, now I want you all to vote that I'm allowed to do it.
00:54:43 Yeah.
00:54:49 And they were like, yes, absolutely.
00:54:51 And he is the most popular president in American history.
00:54:54 Yeah.
00:54:54 He did what?
00:54:55 He did what was necessary to save the Union and everybody.
00:54:59 I'm going to say it again.
00:55:00 I'm going to keep saying it.
00:55:01 Messaging is the most important thing.
00:55:05 It is absolutely the most important thing because if you get the messaging right and you get the American people on your side, the president can do whatever he wants.
00:55:13 You tell the American people.
00:55:14 I think the American people's times are not analogous, right?
00:55:16 I mean, like, you can't.
00:55:18 They're not, but I. They're not, but you're not.
00:55:20 You're never going to convince Americans that we should have a Franco.
00:55:24 I mean, look, the problem is that Trump's not evil.
00:55:27 And when I say the problem, it's that for all of the things you talk about with, I shouldn't say you talk about, but we talk about with Abraham Lincoln, Trump's not that guy.
00:55:37 And I don't necessarily expect him to be. 0.61
00:55:39 When we saw this ice action and they were ramming vehicles and there were armed individuals, like the Preddy guy was kicking vehicles, screaming at them, showed up to a police, to a law enforcement action armed. 0.99
00:55:52 I'm not suggesting what happened to him is a good thing. 0.83
00:55:54 Of course not.
00:55:54 But these ice operations are not.
00:55:58 Community control, you know, where dudes come out wearing windbreakers unarmed to fan protesters back.
00:56:05 This was armored law enforcement going after rapists, smugglers, coyotes, cartels, and these activists were showing up to obstruct this.
00:56:13 To put this in a way that liberals could understand if they'd actually listen, imagine an undercover cop tipped off a bunch of SWAT that there are dudes that traffic rifles, that traffic women and smuggle cocaine and drugs, gangbangers, mafiosos.
00:56:28 And they were like, all right.
00:56:29 We're going to go in and arrest these guys.
00:56:31 And then a bunch of leftists showed up, and a couple of them armed, screaming at the face of the cops, walking up to them.
00:56:37 They don't understand these ICE operations are not just like we're going to go knock on a door and arrest some store worker.
00:56:45 They don't understand this.
00:56:47 I said at this time, if Trump were to suspend habeas corpus along a particular rail line, saying we are going to be dispatching ICE along these federal highways and these rail lines, and because of the terror that we've seen with the car rammings and the shootouts, We are suspending habeas corpus on this federal jurisdiction exclusively to allow federal forces to go in and stop this from happening.
00:57:14 That would be the same thing Abraham Lincoln did.
00:57:17 And when I have this conversation with people, they go, it was a civil war, Tim.
00:57:20 Incorrect.
00:57:21 When Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, we had not yet entered the Civil War.
00:57:25 Now, let me pause.
00:57:27 Historically, when we look back, we say the Civil War began the Battle of Fort Sumter.
00:57:32 Not back then.
00:57:33 Back then, even after Fort Sumter, they did not believe a Civil War was even possible.
00:57:38 Now, later on, we say that's when it started.
00:57:40 So they have the Battle of Bull Run where people are picnicking.
00:57:43 It took over a year before they started saying there was a Civil War.
00:57:48 Abraham, I'll put it up, let me put it like this.
00:57:52 How could anyone in the United States or the Confederacy, for that matter, have thought there was a civil war before there was conscription, conflict, and a suspension of habeas corpus?
00:58:04 So you have this moment before Lincoln gets in where seven states secede.
00:58:10 Lincoln then gets in and says, That's not legal.
00:58:12 Nobody's fighting.
00:58:14 Fort Sumter happens.
00:58:15 Technically, nobody was fighting.
00:58:17 Shots were fired, but only one person died accidentally.
00:58:20 It was largely viewed as just.
00:58:22 This weird one off.
00:58:24 The Battle of Bull Run happens and people are getting killed.
00:58:27 It's merciless.
00:58:29 People picnicking, panic, and run.
00:58:31 Even then, it's still viewed largely just like a riotous conflict.
00:58:35 One fight makes a war, does not, right?
00:58:40 How could any of the people in the entirety of the United States have been like, we are now in a civil war when you did not have military rising up, armaments, blockades, suspension of habeas corpus, arrest of politicians?
00:58:53 It became wartime because Abraham Lincoln made these moves.
00:58:58 To put it simply, there would be no civil war if Abraham Lincoln decided there would not have been one.
00:59:04 The war began.
00:59:05 There would be no union, though, too.
00:59:07 There would be a Northern Union, whatever you want to call it. 0.92
00:59:09 The war began because Abraham Lincoln said, I am going to rally troops and go and shoot the South so that they bend the knee. 0.82
00:59:18 Because the South just said, hey guys, we're out. 0.57
00:59:21 There was no fight.
00:59:22 Abraham Lincoln had a choice I will start the war.
00:59:25 Now, you can argue the catalyst of the war was Southern secession and slavery.
00:59:28 I got a problem with that.
00:59:28 I'm saying fighting only began when Abraham Lincoln said, We will now fight.
00:59:33 And the fighting began after the suspension of habeas corpus for the most part.
00:59:37 So, if Trump were to say, We're suspending on federal highways because we need to get our federal units, ICE agents in safely and securely, so we're going to be commandeering this roadway, that would be on par with Abraham Lincoln.
00:59:48 And imagine what they'd say.
00:59:50 What the left would say if Trump did that.
00:59:52 To your point about Abraham Lincoln, or Trump not being Abraham Lincoln, I think you're right.
00:59:56 But at the same time, The stuff that's the issue that started this particular part of the conversation here, Trump possibly making an executive order, that's the kind of moves that you need that I'm referring to, that I think we should see, right?
01:00:12 Because again, the DSA is a threat to the republic as it stands.
01:00:22 And the delta is that if Trump were to sign his executive order, it is just an affirmation of upholding principles.
01:00:29 Whereas what Lincoln did is like contrary to the Constitution and the Magna Carta.
01:00:33 It's an affirmation that the American people largely, overwhelmingly support.
01:00:38 Well, I think people in general do.
01:00:41 The issue is let's just cut to the chase.
01:00:46 If the United States, the wealthiest country on the planet, had a balanced economy, that is, you felt that you could attain social goals and access to resources.
01:01:01 No one would care if Trump was a king. 0.92
01:01:04 Well, to be fair, the left is psychotic and would lose their mind over Trump. 0.63
01:01:09 My point is, if a new individual arose and declared himself king, let me go the other direction. 0.70
01:01:17 If the democratic socialists burned down the institutions, conquered DC with physical violence, and we were all like, that's it, we've lost.
01:01:27 But instead of gulags, they actually reformed government so quickly and miraculously that our standard of living skyrocketed.
01:01:36 We're all in flying cars with free healthcare.
01:01:40 We'd all be like, wow, wow, I guess we were wrong.
01:01:42 If life genuinely was better for everybody and there were no gulags and no prisons and all of the recidivism just dropped to zero when we abolished prisons, the right would largely be like, okay.
01:01:54 The evidence for this is literally everything the right has done every time there's been change in a positive direction that has benefited the American people.
01:02:03 Conservatives have eventually just been like, okay, they don't go and smash windows and murder people or anything.
01:02:10 This country has changed, civil rights being a really great example.
01:02:13 Well, to be fair, I guess it was technically Democrats, but the more traditional view was, the more progressive view was civil rights.
01:02:18 And then once we got it, they were like, no, yeah, it works.
01:02:22 We don't want to go back that direction.
01:02:24 I don't think the DSA would actually succeed in these regards.
01:02:27 But my point is if we had a king, you know, I got to throw it to Marvel because these thoughts and ideas have already been hypothesized by man in our creative works, and that is Dr. Doom.
01:02:37 We're going to have this movie coming out in December, but for those who are not familiar, you all know who Dr. Doom is, right?
01:02:43 I have no clue who Dr. Doom is.
01:02:44 Dr. Doom is the bad guy from the Fantastic Four.
01:02:46 Okay.
01:02:47 He's a dictator from an Eastern European country called Letveria.
01:02:50 Not real, of course.
01:02:52 And initially, when they write these characters, he's a one dimensional villain.
01:02:56 He's a wealthy Eastern European dictator with a scarred face, so he wears a mask and he uses technology or whatever, right?
01:03:02 Modern iterations throughout the past several decades have entertained this idea.
01:03:07 A really great storyline from Marvel.
01:03:09 Well, this is the Spider Man show from when I was a kid.
01:03:13 They go to a, I think it's a planet, Dr. Doom has conquered.
01:03:17 And they're like, we have to free the people from the evil dictator Doom.
01:03:20 And guess who tries to stop them? 0.98
01:03:22 The citizens of that planet being like, are you nuts? 0.84
01:03:24 He saved us. 0.83
01:03:25 Everything's great.
01:03:26 We're all rich now.
01:03:27 He's fixed everything.
01:03:28 And they're like, but he's evil and he wants to take over the world.
01:03:30 Like, yeah, but he was good at it and he was right.
01:03:33 Like, I think that's an excellent point.
01:03:35 We would all easily, if justice was just, if the economy was good, we would not care if we had a dictator king.
01:03:46 And let's just call it patriarchal monarchy with ascension by combat.
01:03:56 We would literally just be like, as long as the economy is going, I guess.
01:04:00 If you start jailing people for fake reasons, eliminating dissenters, shutting down speech, then people get mad.
01:04:08 If the economy goes south, people get mad.
01:04:10 But the principal issue is if people got a place to live and food to eat, they ain't revolting.
01:04:13 Well, the problem, not the problem, the challenge with that, which is why the left exists, Is that if people have food to eat and a relative prosperity and peace and freedoms, etc., then they begin to question the actual need for government in general.
01:04:27 And you can't do that if you're a Democrat because your entire existence, your raison d'etre, is government, right? 0.96
01:04:33 So you need people to be in a certain level of misery and stupid because I will fix your schools if you elect me. 0.99
01:04:40 You need them to be broke because I will give you food stamps if you elect me. 1.00
01:04:43 Your health care is crap. 0.99
01:04:45 I will give you better health care if you elect me. 1.00
01:04:46 So they have to advocate for.
01:04:49 Misfortune because they are the savior.
01:04:52 And I think the opposite of that is if you have happy, peaceful, prosperous, what do I need government for?
01:04:58 You would then question, like, aren't you my congressman?
01:05:00 Why?
01:05:01 What do you do?
01:05:01 Like, how many, you'd go to the county executive office and be like, all 400 of you, what do you do?
01:05:07 Like, why are you here?
01:05:08 Like, I don't need you.
01:05:09 Like, I can build my own shed. 0.99
01:05:11 I don't need your damn permits. 0.99
01:05:12 I don't need your permission to send my kid to that school. 0.99
01:05:15 And then the whole structure begins to crumble.
01:05:17 So it's essential that people have a certain level of misery because it empowers government, and government is all they care about.
01:05:23 I'm going to take it to the most extreme of political place I can.
01:05:28 Every one of the people watching this show would gladly support lifetime God Emperor Ian Crossland.
01:05:38 If his graphene based economy genuinely improved their lives.
01:05:42 Guaranteed they had disposable income, life was good, their houses all added a second floor.
01:05:47 If, if, like, imagine for the average worker, and and and no, let's take this seriously, I'm half kidding, but imagine if I'll keep it in simplistic terms like, then you woke up the next day and your boss was like, the economy's booming, where our customers are through the roof, we're doubling your salary, prices didn't go up with inflation.
01:06:05 You literally just were now like, wow, all of my bills and expenses are only 20% of my income, and the rest is disposable for whatever I want to do.
01:06:13 And so, you have vacations, you have a four day work week.
01:06:16 You work extra on your hobbies.
01:06:18 You're building cars in your garage.
01:06:19 You go golfing with the buddies.
01:06:21 Your kids are all, in fact, they're too fat and happy.
01:06:24 You hire a personal trainer so that you guys all get in shape.
01:06:27 You're like, this is fantastic.
01:06:29 And all you have to do is accept Ian's graphene based economy.
01:06:33 People would be happy with that.
01:06:34 They would accept dictatorship if it was functional.
01:06:39 I mean, I think that's probably true because people believe they're voting for a king, anyways.
01:06:47 The way that people.
01:06:48 Treat the president, the office of the president, like most of the people that are angry with Trump, right?
01:06:52 The people that used to consider themselves form a mag or whatever, they're upset because Trump hasn't done enough.
01:06:58 Right.
01:06:58 Nobody's upset with Trump.
01:07:00 Nobody that voted for Trump is upset with Trump because he's done too much.
01:07:05 Right.
01:07:07 The only thing that you could say that is the war in Iran.
01:07:09 Right. 0.56
01:07:10 Well, you know, otherwise, it's all he hasn't deported enough.
01:07:13 He's not doing, we're not getting the mass deportations, even though if you, again, this is something that they're going to debate or they're going to push back on and say, well, you can't believe the government's numbers.
01:07:22 It looks like there's about three and a half million people that have been deported.
01:07:27 They're deporting like 4,500 people a day, which is the most ever.
01:07:30 And at that rate, you're looking at another two million or so, two to three million.
01:07:35 To start.
01:07:36 That'll get out before the end of Trump's term.
01:07:38 So, one of these big stories that we got right now is that Andrew Wilson and Candace are going to be debating the Charlie Kirk conspiracy theory.
01:07:46 And I think, I guess I said PBD is going to be the moderator.
01:07:50 And just as an aside, I have trolled. 0.99
01:07:54 Candace's followers mercilessly because they can't read.
01:07:57 And that's kind of the point of what I want to get to in this story and how it pertains to the structure of US government, elections, media, and what's currently happening.
01:08:03 So, of course, many of you know I put out a trolling tweet the other day where I was like, there's going to be a massive debate with a lot of money on the line, and I'm volunteering to moderate.
01:08:12 And then, bottom of the fold, at the bottom of the tweet was, the issue of whether you can own chickens in the suburbs is massively important.
01:08:20 And instead of actually reading it, all of the Candace people were like, Candace would never let you.
01:08:25 And I got 3,000 replies about Candace, which I literally never even tweeted about her.
01:08:30 It's fascinating.
01:08:31 So then, even after I admitted what I did, I tweeted today, I have been chosen to moderate the debate.
01:08:37 And at the bottom, I said, JD Vance's chicken ownership has been contentious, blah, blah, blah.
01:08:40 And still, they're spam blasting.
01:08:43 Candace actually had to make a statement where she was like, no, he's not moderating.
01:08:46 Yeah, right.
01:08:47 And then I did another tweet where I said, despite what you've heard, I am moderating, but I'm literally not even talking about it.
01:08:53 The point is, these people don't read.
01:08:55 Here's the point.
01:08:55 They don't read.
01:08:58 In the early days, in the late 2000s, I was watching Alex Jones' Prison Planet InfoWars. 1.00
01:09:03 And it was a lot of interesting things that he was right about and a lot of wackaloon nonsense. 0.90
01:09:08 Remember when Alex went on Joe Rogan and talked about 5G towers, animal hybrids, intermental beings, and he said they're turning people into chimeras or whatever? 1.00
01:09:16 That was the wackaloon insanity.
01:09:18 At the time, what year was this? 0.99
01:09:20 Was it like 2016 or 17 or something when that interview happened?
01:09:24 There is a contingent of people, and this is what Candace is tapping into.
01:09:28 The only thing they believe is that those in power are lying.
01:09:35 That's it.
01:09:36 So, in the early days, I don't want to say the early days of Alex Jones because the late 2000s wasn't really his earliest days.
01:09:41 He's saying things that somewhat, a lot of it was true, like atrazine, he was right about.
01:09:45 He was reading reports on this stuff.
01:09:46 He was right about a lot.
01:09:47 But when he started getting to the, like, let's just be honest, like the Sandy Hook conspiracy stuff, he captured a massive audience of people who just want to believe whatever the machine says is a lie.
01:09:57 So now the issue is Trump has become the machine.
01:10:01 He's crushed the deep state.
01:10:02 He's shattered USAID, scattered to the wind.
01:10:05 It's his team in charge now.
01:10:07 And so this same court of people is literally just in conspiracy land.
01:10:13 The issue for us and for a lot of people right now that watch this show is that we're in fact land.
01:10:19 We don't always get it right.
01:10:20 We often get it wrong.
01:10:22 I don't care if it's Trump or Hillary or Candace or anybody.
01:10:26 If they are saying something that is true, I will say, yeah, they're probably right about it.
01:10:30 But this contingent of online conspiracy people will just say, no, Trump's wrong now.
01:10:35 He is Epstein.
01:10:36 And it's like, Trump's the guy who got Epstein arrested in the first place.
01:10:40 I'm not suggesting he's done a good job, and Bangino and Cash have done a good job on Epstein, but it was Trump's administration where they actually raided, went to the jail, and they got him and all that stuff.
01:10:49 Believe whatever you want, but now that Trump is the power, they immediately no longer trust him.
01:10:55 And anybody who is still with him is part of the conspiracy.
01:10:59 This is the issue we have in this country.
01:11:02 At the time, you have, I think, largely Donald Trump, I would say monetized this in a sense.
01:11:10 I remember I was at a Best Buy.
01:11:12 And this is back in like 2019.
01:11:14 And some guy was like, Oh, hey, you're Tim Pool.
01:11:16 And I was like, Yeah.
01:11:17 He's like, Hey, nice to meet you.
01:11:18 I watch you all the time.
01:11:19 And then immediately started asking me about child sacrifice and consuming brain.
01:11:24 And he was like, These Democrats are like, they're drinking, like they drink the brain, the spinal fluid.
01:11:29 And I was like, You know, I don't think so.
01:11:32 I was like, That's not really anything we've ever talked about.
01:11:35 At the time, because we were calling out the lies from the establishment for which Trump was the underdog, those people who believe in the creates of conspiracies were aligned.
01:11:44 Now that Trump is the.
01:11:48 They still, they now go, aha, it was Trump the whole time.
01:11:51 And now anybody who defends Trump is part of it.
01:11:53 It's a psychological defense mechanism, though.
01:11:55 We see this all throughout, like, sort of the human condition.
01:11:59 People want to believe that they're in control when they feel like their lives are out of control.
01:12:03 They, you know, one of the things that they can do to sort of maintain sanity is like adopt this view that they are the smartest person in the room, right?
01:12:09 That's the only reason that they're in their situation because everyone else isn't as smart as them and they know and that's why things are the way they are.
01:12:16 And it just, it's a sense of comfort for them, I think.
01:12:18 I just, I want to stress.
01:12:22 There are people who believe that Charlie Kirk had electromagnetic powers.
01:12:25 This is not a joke.
01:12:27 I mean, Candace has claimed.
01:12:29 He didn't, though, right?
01:12:30 He did not.
01:12:31 Well, to be honest, I honestly don't know.
01:12:31 Okay.
01:12:33 I'm sure.
01:12:34 I honestly don't know.
01:12:35 My general understanding is that most people, most, as far as I can tell, I've not witnessed any electromagnetic powers.
01:12:41 If they exist, I'm certainly jealous.
01:12:43 But Candace has claimed that Charlie Kirk had the ability to turn off streetlights, that he would walk up to them and turn them off with his mind.
01:12:52 That he was, that they both have the ability to astral project and that they were both part of.
01:12:58 What is astral project?
01:12:59 Astral project.
01:13:00 What is astral project?
01:13:01 Astral projection is when your spirit can leave your body and explore the world by flying around.
01:13:06 No way.
01:13:07 Yeah, you can navigate into your body.
01:13:09 It can kind of do a self-advance.
01:13:10 That's really out of body experience.
01:13:12 She claimed that they were both part of the same government experiments as children.
01:13:16 Oh, wow.
01:13:17 Oh, that's sad.
01:13:18 And there are people that watch every episode and they're like, whoa.
01:13:21 That proves it.
01:13:22 I did not know she was experimented on a soul.
01:13:24 I think all of those people are mad at me for flock, by the way, because they're in my replies right now.
01:13:30 What about?
01:13:32 I'm relatively pro flock, and that has pissed the tinfoil hat people off.
01:13:36 Well, flock is bad, but the issue is that flock is also First Amendment.
01:13:42 I made this point in a piece I wrote about it.
01:13:44 I also think it has potential to do some good, and if we regulate it appropriately, it can do lots of good.
01:13:49 Oh, I don't think so.
01:13:50 Lots of good.
01:13:51 Oh, yeah.
01:13:51 I think it's already helping find it.
01:13:53 I've not thought it through, but I'm going to tell you you're wrong because a cohort of conspiracy people will send me praise and money if I just say it was bad.
01:14:00 That's right.
01:14:00 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:14:01 No, I agree.
01:14:02 I think there are some areas.
01:14:03 So when we had the shooting, We were, we were, we had pitches come in immediately like install flock cameras because then you'll know exactly who's doing it.
01:14:11 And we ultimately decided not to do it.
01:14:13 The issue is flock cameras, uh, absolutely will result in fourth and fifth amendment violations, and they already have.
01:14:23 That's the problem.
01:14:24 The woman who uh, the cop went to her house and said, You're getting a summons for stealing a package because flock said you did, and she said, I was not there.
01:14:31 And it turned out she wasn't there, but here's the thing when flock says confirmed, and an administrator Says, go issue the summons.
01:14:40 The police don't review evidence.
01:14:42 Right.
01:14:43 Is that on Flock, though?
01:14:44 Is that on the technology?
01:14:45 Why?
01:14:45 It is on the technology.
01:14:47 Because cops will also, it's a guarantee that police will violate our Fourth and Fifth Amendment rights.
01:14:53 We just want them to be, we want this to be mitigated in some way, accounted for.
01:14:59 With Flock, you're saying, let's crank it up past 11.
01:15:04 It's going to happen at scale now.
01:15:06 It's going to be happening.
01:15:08 Did you see the auto blogger who got pulled over and accused of stealing a car at gunpoint with his wife?
01:15:12 Yeah, it was a lot. 0.70
01:15:13 They could have shot and killed the guy.
01:15:15 The car was left on the hit list, right? 0.98
01:15:17 No, no, no.
01:15:18 The flock camera misread the license plate.
01:15:21 I think it was a typo on the part of the flock who entered the license plate.
01:15:21 No, no.
01:15:25 Incorrect.
01:15:25 The flock camera scanned the license plate, which was a temporary plate which had three big numbers, two small numbers, and then three big numbers.
01:15:33 And the flock camera didn't see the small numbers.
01:15:36 So it entered the vehicle in as the wrong license plate.
01:15:39 They were looking for a stolen vehicle.
01:15:41 So when the cops scanned the plate, flock said, that's the guy who stole the car. 0.77
01:15:44 They draw their guns on some bumbling white middle aged guy with his wife.
01:15:48 Look, that's bad, but that's not a fourth or fifth amendment violation, right?
01:15:51 Like, when the police, no, when the police make a mistake, right?
01:15:55 That's not a, that's not a constitution.
01:15:57 Well, yeah.
01:15:58 I mean, no human made a mistake.
01:16:00 A machine lagged it.
01:16:02 No one was, but the machine didn't pull the car over.
01:16:04 The system being, didn't take the action.
01:16:06 The system being put in place doesn't have the mechanisms by which humans must check and balance it in that way.
01:16:13 And it's not possible to.
01:16:15 What do you mean?
01:16:15 It's not possible.
01:16:16 If you, if a person witnesses a, let's say there's like a young black guy in a white tank top and black shorts, smashed a window out, jumped into a car, and took off, and the person says, he stole my car, here's the license plate, here's the car description. 0.58
01:16:32 Yeah. 0.66
01:16:33 A human can make a mistake.
01:16:35 But we know that human entered it in and a mistake had been made, and we can trace that and find accountability.
01:16:40 Sure.
01:16:41 Flock cameras as an entirety of its system did this.
01:16:44 And no human, Had the capacity to intervene between the machine deciding someone was a car thief who was a violent, dangerous murderer.
01:16:52 The humans all just assumed it was the case.
01:16:54 And here's the point we can hold that one human accountable and say they're not fit for this job.
01:17:00 Let me ask you this.
01:17:01 If a police officer inputs the wrong data that results in these things, how many times until you fire that person?
01:17:08 Oh, I think pretty soon.
01:17:11 I mean, especially if it turns out bad.
01:17:13 Three times?
01:17:14 Yeah, sure.
01:17:14 Okay, then how about we pitch this?
01:17:16 When Flock does this three times, we'll shut it off.
01:17:19 But why shut the whole thing off?
01:17:20 There's so many.
01:17:22 Because it's a singular technological entity, the same as a person is.
01:17:25 If a person is making a mistake, we fire them.
01:17:28 If Flock is making a mistake, we fire them.
01:17:30 Right, but technology is going to make mistakes when you.
01:17:33 When you begin it, right?
01:17:35 So, like, but it's also going to do really good things.
01:17:37 Like, for example, there was a woman the other day who was driving for Instacart, right?
01:17:40 Making a delivery.
01:17:41 She had her, I think, a two year old child in the back seat. 0.94
01:17:44 She gets out of the car for a few seconds to bring the groceries to the front door.
01:17:48 Carjacker hops into the front seat, takes off with the kid.
01:17:52 Right?
01:17:53 Frantic 911 call. 0.91
01:17:54 Obviously, every mother's worst nightmare.
01:17:56 They find that car within a few minutes, recover the child safely because the car got a hit on a flock camera.
01:18:02 So, this would be.
01:18:02 They were in.
01:18:04 So, I would argue that your stance is the Otto von Bismarck stance and mine is the Benjamin Franklin or Blackstone stance.
01:18:10 Oh, I don't think it's the Blackstone stance, really.
01:18:13 The Blackstone stance is the 10th. 1.00
01:18:14 No, that's better. 1.00
01:18:15 Indeed.
01:18:16 So, the idea that we should have a mass surveillance system that does, in numerous instances, falsely accuse people of serious crimes because sometimes.
01:18:23 Numerous, not sometimes, exponentially more times than.
01:18:29 How many people is it worth being falsely accused of serious crimes, jailed, For some reason.
01:18:35 But they didn't get jailed, right?
01:18:36 Like, if you're the subject of a felony, stop.
01:18:39 I didn't say they were, they weren't.
01:18:40 I'm saying, how many would you accept?
01:18:41 I would not, I mean, I guess as many as we accept now, right?
01:18:45 I mean, like, there are innocent people who are convicted under our current system, right?
01:18:48 It's not perfect.
01:18:49 So, perfection can't be the standard.
01:18:51 Let's bring it to scale.
01:18:53 Like, this is one of the problems I have with the way that the flock debate's being sort of under the fact that we're even calling it the flock debate, right?
01:18:53 But it's already at scale.
01:19:00 Flock is a brand of a product, the product being ALPRs, Automated License Plate.
01:19:04 There's actually other companies too.
01:19:04 Right.
01:19:05 Tons of other companies.
01:19:06 Flock got protested.
01:19:07 They just adopted the right.
01:19:08 So, like, these things have, they're not new.
01:19:13 Like, ALPRs have been around for a really, really long time, right?
01:19:16 Like, the NYPD first launched ALPRs in New York City in 2006.
01:19:21 In 2012, Ars Technica was warning us that, you know, ALPRs were already taking millions of our travel records and we're going to extinguish our privacy.
01:19:30 That was 14 years ago.
01:19:32 Isn't the issue with the modern version of these ALPRs, isn't it the AI behind it that makes, that causes the problem?
01:19:38 I don't think that really changes things for a couple of reasons.
01:19:40 One, the AI has been integrated into ALPRs.
01:19:43 PRs since probably 2011, 12 in that rate.
01:19:46 So that's not new either, number one.
01:19:48 But all the AI helps it do is better identify other vehicle features beyond the license plate, like the make model color, a bumper sticker, if there's like a dent in the back right bumper, that's it.
01:19:59 It just makes it easier to identify the car that you're actually looking for.
01:20:02 Now, it is possible that you might end up looking for the wrong car because of human error.
01:20:07 And it's possible that the technology may, in one, in however many million correct hits, get something wrong.
01:20:13 The question is, is like, how much of the benefit should we just throw out the window?
01:20:17 Especially when we're living in a time where police departments around the country are like struggling with tension.
01:20:22 I think this is this is this is like that's a the question that we have right now is it's like the traditional liberal argument versus the moralist conservative argument.
01:20:31 Whereas we are, you know, so I often put it like this principles aren't a real thing and consistency is not a real thing.
01:20:39 And conservatives tried to play this line for a long time and they were completely wrong and it made their arguments weak.
01:20:45 The left's argument is there is no truth but power.
01:20:48 They will say whatever they have to and do whatever they have to so that it benefits their worldview and their way of life.
01:20:52 So, the question I often ask people is Do you think that parents should have final say in the health care of their child?
01:20:59 Yes.
01:20:59 You think they do.
01:21:00 So when the parents, so no.
01:21:05 Well, I mean, I guess it depends on what, like, do I think that a parent should be able to not take an infant?
01:21:12 No, hold on, hold on.
01:21:14 Should parents have the final say in the health care of their children, yes or no?
01:21:18 I don't think that's an easy yes or no question.
01:21:22 I mean, we have to be careful.
01:21:23 No, no, no.
01:21:24 It's actually fairly simple.
01:21:26 If you're saying I can't answer that, then you're saying no.
01:21:29 Final say is an absolute position.
01:21:31 Conservatives maintained.
01:21:33 Yeah, but healthcare isn't defined, right?
01:21:34 Like, so do I think that parents should be able to say, like, no, I don't want my kid to be on this vaccine schedule?
01:21:39 Yes.
01:21:40 Do I think that parents should be.
01:21:41 You're explaining the point perfectly.
01:21:43 Like, I am asking you if you would take the absolute position that parents have the say over their children's healthcare.
01:21:49 Because conservatives maintained during the era of COVID, the answer was always yes.
01:21:53 Right.
01:21:54 And then when the issue of children deciding to give their kids sex changes came up, they immediately said no.
01:21:59 The government should intervene in that instance.
01:22:01 The point is.
01:22:02 The question of whether or not parents should have final say in their children's health care is not a yes or no.
01:22:07 There is no absolute.
01:22:08 It's depending on your moral worldview.
01:22:11 So, the question on flock cameras is you can't quantify benefit versus detriment.
01:22:17 The question is on our morality.
01:22:19 Do we as a nation decide to live in a world where everywhere you go in your car, the government knows?
01:22:25 It's not.
01:22:26 We don't live in that world.
01:22:27 We're not even close to that world.
01:22:29 We want to put flock cameras up everywhere.
01:22:32 No one wants to put flock cameras up everywhere.
01:22:33 That's not even the term of the debate, right?
01:22:36 Take New York City, which has probably the densest coverage of flat cameras in the country.
01:22:41 You're talking about like 1,500 of these things.
01:22:44 And we are talking about the expansion of a program, not the limited implementation sometimes.
01:22:49 But why not try to mitigate the potential downside risk while enjoying it?
01:22:49 Sure.
01:22:55 I would say moral worldview.
01:22:58 And what would be the moral worldview?
01:23:01 Sometimes I want to be able to drive my car and I don't want the government, local or otherwise, to be able to scan my license plate.
01:23:08 And for that matter, my face in other circumstances.
01:23:11 Sometimes I just want to go outside and not have to worry about whether or not someone's spying on me or collecting metadata.
01:23:19 This is a big question in cybersecurity in the 2000s pertaining to the metadata searches that Obama was doing with Snowden and all that.
01:23:26 The issue was the government claimed we are not watching what you do on websites.
01:23:32 We don't know what you're reading or what weird stuff you're gooning off to, but we know the IPs that you're pinging.
01:23:40 Because the argument was this if you walk outside your house, a police officer is allowed to watch you do it because, in public, you have no expectation of privacy.
01:23:48 And many people were shocked to find that that was the case because they, for the most of human existence, if you looked out your window and there was nobody there and you walked outside, nobody knew.
01:24:00 But now we have cameras everywhere.
01:24:02 And so it came to be that the government asserted as fact now unless you wear a mask when you leave your home, you have no expectation of privacy.
01:24:11 If you do wear a mask, you can argue after the fact for the deletion of that data because it was your intention to retain anonymity.
01:24:20 And the issue is when you walk out of your house, these cameras, and this is well before Flock, have gate tracking, meaning based on the way you walk, they know if it's you or not.
01:24:30 So there was a court case where they said if you leave your house wearing a mask, you've expressed the intention to obfuscate your identity.
01:24:38 After they collect those videos of you on these cameras everywhere, You can then file to have it deleted under the expectation of privacy because you're wearing a mask.
01:24:48 What we are building now, and Flock being one stepping stone of this.
01:24:52 How would they know it was you?
01:24:54 Gate tracking.
01:24:55 Right, but you would then have to tell them, like, oh, that's me.
01:24:58 With the mask.
01:24:58 No.
01:24:59 So, gate tracking is you walk out of your house not wearing a mask, right?
01:25:01 Right, right.
01:25:02 And they see the way.
01:25:03 Then, when you walk out wearing a mask, the computer says How many people in the country have their gate known to an entity?
01:25:03 And they see the gate.
01:25:11 Does it matter?
01:25:12 This was part of the court case.
01:25:14 And the question is Do you want to live in a world where we expand that or not?
01:25:17 It's a moral question, not a quantitative question.
01:25:20 And I feel the quantitative questioning is a distraction.
01:25:25 The point is the US courts ruled we can take all of the data from your internet searches.
01:25:32 So long as it's just the websites you're visiting and not what specific things you're looking at, unless we have a warrant.
01:25:37 Here's the problem when they collect three gigabytes of all the websites you've gone to, they know exactly what you're looking at.
01:25:46 So it's likened to I watched you walk out of your house, then I followed you until you walked into an adult bookstore, and then I watched you walk out with a couple of items.
01:25:55 I know what you're doing.
01:25:57 And because I watched you do it, I can tell everybody, and that's bad for you.
01:26:01 And then what happens is the person goes, I.
01:26:04 I expected some degree of privacy.
01:26:06 I didn't think anybody was going to spy on me.
01:26:07 And the court said, listen, you're out in public.
01:26:10 People can watch what you're doing.
01:26:11 Sure.
01:26:11 Have a nice day.
01:26:12 We got into the cyber world.
01:26:14 And they said, when you go website to website, your computer is in public when it's pinging these servers.
01:26:19 So if people are tracking your metadata, the government is, and we can then piece together after the fact, we now can build a profile, but that's your fault.
01:26:28 You have no expectation of privacy.
01:26:29 Sure.
01:26:30 Right now in this world, you can walk outside and with.
01:26:35 A substantially much less expectation of privacy, still to a certain degree, expect that if you leave your house and go to the store, most people probably aren't going to know.
01:26:45 Okay.
01:26:45 Do we want to expand a surveillance state through the ubiquitous use of these license plate readers so that everywhere you go, a database is being built of everywhere you've been?
01:26:56 Yeah, I just don't think this is happening.
01:26:58 And I don't think it's going to be a problem.
01:27:01 So let's have the actual debate on the issue instead of you questioning whether it is happening right now.
01:27:06 Because the question I asked is, do we want to start building that world?
01:27:09 No.
01:27:09 No.
01:27:09 Yes or no?
01:27:10 The answer is no.
01:27:10 Okay, so I oppose the flock cameras for that reason because the snowflake doesn't blame itself for the avalanche.
01:27:16 So you oppose flock cameras because at some point in the future we might possibly get to this kind of thing, assuming that enough parties have been using it and then make it happen successfully before any.
01:27:26 You're asking, I'm watching a guy laying bricks in front of his house, and I said, I don't think you should be laying bricks because eventually we're going to have a wall in front of this property we don't want.
01:27:33 And you're going, well, maybe in the future there'll be a wall.
01:27:35 The problem is, once the wall's built, you can't tear it down.
01:27:37 So, how about we just say, stop building the wall?
01:27:40 We may not even get there, right?
01:27:41 I mean, like, there's already enough of a, there's already a massive backlash.
01:27:44 Which, again, isn't the argument.
01:27:45 The issue is if somebody is building something we don't like, do we say, go ahead and build it?
01:27:49 We'll figure it out later.
01:27:50 Or do we say, stop building it?
01:27:51 I think we've kind of already gotten there, brother.
01:27:53 I mean, like, your cell phone, right?
01:27:55 It's like tracking exponentially more about what you're doing.
01:27:57 And this is exactly the point I am making.
01:27:59 But it's also.
01:28:00 Is there a resistance to the ubiquity of spying technology, or do you capitulate?
01:28:04 No, I think there's been resistance.
01:28:05 I mean, look at Carpenter, look at Chautri from the last two, Or Chautry in the last Supreme Court term, Carpenter in 2018, right?
01:28:11 Like, there are protections in place that I think will adequately keep us having that.
01:28:18 But they have.
01:28:18 So let's take a look at like Amazon devices.
01:28:21 Yeah.
01:28:21 There was a case where police were able to subpoena an active recording from an Amazon.
01:28:26 I'm not going to say the name because it'll turn on for everybody listening.
01:28:29 And then everyone started saying, how was it recording?
01:28:32 Because people didn't realize that in order for voice activation to exist, all microphones must be on at all times.
01:28:40 I can't turn it off in my house.
01:28:41 You can't turn it off.
01:28:42 You can turn off the microphone.
01:28:42 Yeah, you can.
01:28:44 So, you think you can.
01:28:46 So, like the speech recognition devices like Amazon?
01:28:51 No, Google Nest.
01:28:52 Right.
01:28:53 These objects that are activated by voice, you can't turn them off because the function is the voice activation.
01:29:00 You can turn off the microphone so it can't hear you.
01:29:02 You think you can turn off the microphone.
01:29:04 If I say, hey, Google.
01:29:05 And thus was the issue with the police getting recording, despite the fact it wasn't supposed to be recording.
01:29:10 So, also, did you know that your TV screenshots everything you watch?
01:29:14 Interesting.
01:29:15 Yeah.
01:29:15 Modern smart TVs will take a screenshot of everything you're watching every few seconds and send it to advertiser networks.
01:29:20 So, aren't these things exponentially more concerning?
01:29:23 They are all extremely bad.
01:29:25 But I tell you this.
01:29:26 So, my TV screenshotting what I watch is annoying.
01:29:29 Sure.
01:29:30 Cameras being put up around my neighborhood that will put in a database my license plate and delete it after a few days.
01:29:37 For the government.
01:29:38 Again, now that's an assumption.
01:29:40 No, it's, I mean, the default setting for a flock camera is to delete after 30 days.
01:29:44 Most jurisdictions either stick with the default setting or cut it down.
01:29:47 I think in New Hampshire, it's down to three minutes.
01:29:50 That's a faith argument.
01:29:51 Why is it a faith argument?
01:29:53 I hope they do, is not the issue that I'm bringing up. 1.00
01:29:55 Well, it's that they're doing it, right?
01:29:56 I mean, part of the reason they're doing it is they're serious.
01:29:58 Well, you're hoping that they do it the same way.
01:30:01 No one knows any, right?
01:30:02 Like, but then what we do know is people are putting up cameras that automatically track our license plates all over the place.
01:30:07 Not all over the place.
01:30:08 That's they're literally all over the place.
01:30:11 There are and and and again, like all over the place is a nebulous argument because we haven't defined the quantity of all over the place.
01:30:18 There are 120,000 of them in the whole country.
01:30:21 Yeah, yeah, I think 120,000 something like that.
01:30:24 Yeah, holy, I mean, there are like.
01:30:26 1,500 in New York City, which I think probably has the densest coverage.
01:30:29 There are 80,000 street segments in New York City.
01:30:31 That's horrible.
01:30:32 And only 1,500 of these cameras.
01:30:34 That's bad.
01:30:36 I don't think it's bad at all.
01:30:37 I think it's fascinating that, like.
01:30:38 When you're recovering missing kids, when you're recovering stolen vehicles, when you're arresting and apprehending serious crimes.
01:30:45 Those who would give up essential liberty for a little bit of security deserve not a little bit of security.
01:30:49 And I don't think it's an essential liberty.
01:30:51 Certainly it's liberty.
01:30:52 I don't think driving your car on a public roadway without anyone knowing it is an One of the greatest arguments for the problem of surveillance state is that throughout U.S. history, there have been instances where things that were illegal were made legal, prohibition being the greatest example.
01:31:12 If no one could drink alcohol ever again because of the ubiquity of a surveillance state, how would the people of the United States know that they actually like and prefer having alcohol?
01:31:21 It was only through the illicit activities and speakeasies and illegal transfer of alcohol that the American people knew we want this, it must remain legal, and we have to overturn prohibition, and they did.
01:31:32 I think they knew it before.
01:31:33 If there was a, if we build this, as we are building it, mass surveillance state for the purpose of stopping crime, which is what you're describing, the question is what crime do we eventually see people get arrested for?
01:31:49 So let me give you a great example.
01:31:50 This is a legitimate.
01:31:51 In some instances, not wearing a mask would get you arrested.
01:31:55 And so we're going to live in this world where we advocate for the expansion of a surveillance state, and then one day they will declare a national emergency and say, if we catch you fraternizing another person, Like during COVID, you go to jail and then there will be a camera on the street corner and you'll go, oops, why did I advocate for that?
01:32:10 Yeah, like I, well, I just, I think we were already kind of had that opportunity and it didn't happen, which is encouraging to me, right?
01:32:18 What did happen?
01:32:19 COVID happened.
01:32:20 Yeah, but ALPRs weren't being used to enforce mass.
01:32:23 Now imagine how bad it would have been if we had all of these cameras everywhere.
01:32:28 We had them utilized by governments.
01:32:30 We had them in mass.
01:32:32 We had them in mass.
01:32:34 I'm going to, I'm going to, this is, it's difficult because.
01:32:37 Like that happened.
01:32:38 You're not arguing what I'm saying.
01:32:40 COVID happened.
01:32:40 Do you want to build the world where these cameras are ubiquitous and a COVID scenario happens?
01:32:47 I don't think anyone wants to build the world where the cameras are ubiquitous.
01:32:50 I don't even think that's the goal for anyone.
01:32:52 So, do we put.
01:32:53 Okay, so how about this?
01:32:54 How about we say there's 120,000 in the United States?
01:32:57 We put a moratorium on any more.
01:32:59 Why?
01:33:00 Because we don't.
01:33:01 You agreed, right?
01:33:02 We don't want to build a world where they're ubiquitous.
01:33:04 Right, but I don't think they're anywhere close to ubiquitous.
01:33:06 120,000.
01:33:07 So, what's your number?
01:33:08 I don't know.
01:33:09 I don't know.
01:33:10 Well, if we're going to compromise, and my argument is I don't want any of them, and you say we don't want to build that world of mass ubiquitous surveillance, let's determine the amount that we're okay with nationwide and then put a moratorium on them.
01:33:22 I don't know.
01:33:22 I think that's a weird argument to make.
01:33:26 I mean, like, what number would even give you the kind of coverage?
01:33:29 I think cities should have the kind of coverage that New York has.
01:33:32 I think New York has had this number for a really long time.
01:33:35 It's probably going to stay pretty close to that.
01:33:38 So, would you be happy if every street corner in the country had these cameras pointing in each direction?
01:33:43 I don't think it would make sense to have one in every street.
01:33:45 That's not what I'm asking.
01:33:46 No, because it would be a waste of money.
01:33:48 Okay, so we can count the intersections in this country, and we can certainly say the amount of flat cameras should be restricted to somewhat less, to a number less than that one.
01:33:56 So there is a number by which you'd say we should not legally allow anymore.
01:33:56 Sure.
01:34:00 Fine. 0.87
01:34:01 And now I'm willing to go there as opposed to just throwing out the baby with the bathwater and saying that we should ban this and let that poor woman just lose her child forever, possibly, or let the guy who just shot four people at a house party get away forever.
01:34:14 Yes, that is a much better debate.
01:34:18 You did bring up something good, a really important point, though, which is the one fear that I have with ALPRs, which I think a lot of people share, is not really the sort of mass Orwellian surveillance state, it's the possibility that they could be used.
01:34:30 To enforce these nickel and dime nonsense offenses.
01:34:33 That's what they will be used for.
01:34:34 I don't think so.
01:34:35 I don't think so.
01:34:35 And I think that we can stop that right now by drawing smear regulatory guidelines around.
01:34:41 I hate speed cameras.
01:34:42 We got to take everything.
01:34:43 And we have a massive backlash against speed cameras all around the country.
01:34:45 So one of our drivers stopped at a red light and then made a right turn and got a ticket.
01:34:52 And now what am I supposed to do?
01:34:54 So the car gets a ticket.
01:34:55 The car gets a ticket.
01:34:57 In part because the ALP can't actually identify the driver.
01:34:59 Am I going to send my driver to court?
01:35:00 Because this automated traffic camera was wrong.
01:35:03 I have to.
01:35:04 Because you'll get points.
01:35:04 Right.
01:35:05 You get.
01:35:06 No, no, you'll get points.
01:35:07 I don't think the individual gets points.
01:35:08 I don't think the individual gets points.
01:35:09 I don't think the individual gets points.
01:35:10 If you have a certain amount of moving violation tickets, they will suspend your license.
01:35:13 And they suspend the registration of the vehicle.
01:35:15 And so what we have to do is, when we got this, we had to allocate money towards it.
01:35:20 Yeah.
01:35:21 Because they screwed up.
01:35:22 I do not like that world.
01:35:24 I. Nor do I think we want to live in what that world will be as we expand these machines.
01:35:29 I agree insofar as I do not want to live in that world.
01:35:32 I think that we can regulate our way out of that world by drawing clear lines around how you use this technology.
01:35:37 I think we can say, yes, you can use this technology to find shooting suspects.
01:35:40 Yes, you can use it to recover stolen goods.
01:35:41 You think that the legislative branch has been successful in their efforts over the past 10 years?
01:35:45 I mean, look, some of the legislative branches at the city level, at the state level, are already banning these things just in response to the backlash. 0.75
01:35:51 The idea that we don't have responsive politics is silly.
01:35:54 There is responsive politics.
01:35:55 What I want to do is I want to inform the debate in a way that gets us to the best possible policy outcome.
01:36:01 I don't think a good policy outcome gets us to a place where the guy who takes the car with the two year old in the back.
01:36:06 Gets caught.
01:36:07 If I may.
01:36:08 That is the oh, won't someone think about the children fallacy.
01:36:11 But it's not a fallacy.
01:36:12 It's a concrete reality that we live in.
01:36:15 It is a singular, it's a needle, it's a drop of water in the ocean of what the argument is.
01:36:21 A child was taken.
01:36:22 It's a highly evocative.
01:36:24 This is like one out of many similar cases.
01:36:26 And it's an evocative argument meant to.
01:36:29 No more evocative than the argument that you made earlier about the one instance in which the guy was felony stopped at gunpoint with the.
01:36:35 And so I expanded my argument to.
01:36:37 What we have seen through the ubiquity of a surveillance state is that you can't leave your home without someone knowing what you're doing at all times.
01:36:43 But you can.
01:36:43 And that in the history of the United States, there have been instances where laws were repealed because people were doing illegal things and society determined they wanted those illegal things to be legal.
01:36:54 In a mass surveillance state, you don't get it. 0.69
01:36:56 And so it's one of the reasons why the Soviet Union.
01:36:57 You don't get what? 0.94
01:36:58 The repeal?
01:36:59 The ability to repeal things.
01:37:00 Because no one will ever drink a beer if anytime you crack a beer, they instantly know and arrest you for it.
01:37:00 Why not?
01:37:06 So you look at the Soviet Union. 0.96
01:37:07 How many cops would you need to actually instantly arrest people for it?
01:37:09 Not everybody.
01:37:10 If there are cameras all over the place.
01:37:13 So a really great example is.
01:37:16 Public drinking in New York in the early 1900s when they made it illegal, the city councilman said, Let it be known that this will never prohibit a man from having a beer during his lunch break.
01:37:27 Guess what it does now?
01:37:28 Sure.
01:37:29 Prohibits a man from having a beer during his lunch break. 0.99
01:37:31 This is the point.
01:37:32 Again, like it's a question of the moral worldview, not some idea of consistency or principle.
01:37:37 But do we build mass surveillance systems intentionally or do we block them from being built?
01:37:43 I don't, one, I wouldn't categorize ALPRs as a mass surveillance system, number one.
01:37:48 Number two is.
01:37:50 I think you're ignoring the fact that, like, despite the fact that we have these things in place that you would call a mass surveillance system, none of the things that you are arguing about have come to pass.
01:38:00 We've had ALPRs for 20 years.
01:38:02 Not only can you drink a beer on the streets of New York and get away with it, you could smoke crack.
01:38:06 I don't know why a light reader would stop you from drinking a beer in the street.
01:38:09 Exactly.
01:38:10 Like, what I'm saying is, like, none of the things that you're arguing about.
01:38:12 If you can't drink a beer in the streets of New York, you will get it fined or arrested for it.
01:38:16 Almost certainly not.
01:38:18 Yeah, for a huge amount of reasons.
01:38:19 I mean, like, I have to go walk on the subway and, like, tell me that that's true.
01:38:22 Just because sometimes people break the law, not always.
01:38:25 Almost always.
01:38:26 And part of them is that's absolutely incorrect.
01:38:28 Because one of the biggest issues of BLM is that police routinely go into Harlem and the Bronx and walk around issuing tickets for public drinking.
01:38:35 And one of the biggest issues with BLM was that they were full of it for most of the things that they were doing.
01:38:40 It has nothing to do with what I just said.
01:38:41 It is true that police go to these areas and hand out tickets to people drinking 40s.
01:38:45 It is very rare.
01:38:47 No, it's not.
01:38:47 Yes, it is.
01:38:48 No, it isn't.
01:38:49 It happens all the time.
01:38:50 No, it really doesn't.
01:38:51 You are incorrect.
01:38:53 I mean, I guess we're at an impact.
01:38:54 One of the biggest stories was that a black cop went to Central Park and started handing tickets to people drinking wine. 0.90
01:38:58 Sure, yeah, that explains. 0.83
01:38:59 That had to be cheated.
01:39:00 And then the head of.
01:39:01 He went there complaining, saying, they come to my neighborhood and they've been handing out tickets.
01:39:01 No, no, no.
01:39:07 So I'm going to go to their neighborhood.
01:39:09 And then he got in trouble for it.
01:39:11 I understand that.
01:39:12 But that doesn't constitute proof that this is some significant portion of what the NYPD is.
01:39:16 Before the City Council of New York passed the law banning public drinking, there were zero tickets for it.
01:39:21 Today, they probably generate hundreds of thousands of dollars per month on this.
01:39:26 Yeah, I don't think it's anywhere near in the hundreds of thousands of dollars a month.
01:39:30 Like, that's sort of besides the point.
01:39:32 Like, you're making the point, you're making the argument that people can't get away with anything anymore.
01:39:36 No, I didn't.
01:39:36 It's just not true.
01:39:37 That's not what I said.
01:39:39 You're saying that the existence of the surveillance state is a problem because then you leave your house, you do X, Y, and Z that's now against the law, and then you'll get immediately arrested for it.
01:39:47 And I'm saying, like, that's not real.
01:39:49 I think we're having an order of thinking challenge.
01:39:51 I am saying that when you put up a single camera, we call that a snowflake.
01:39:55 The snowflake is not an avalanche.
01:39:56 Sure.
01:39:57 What that camera does is probably immaterial for the most part to a massive society like the United States with 330 million people.
01:40:04 Then you put up two cameras.
01:40:05 At what point do those cameras make a heap?
01:40:08 The question is, do we want to find out or not?
01:40:10 And the answer is, no, we don't.
01:40:12 So the compromise then would be a limit on the amount of cameras that can be put up either nationwide or in localities.
01:40:20 And then after that, there's a moratorium on the expansion of these cameras.
01:40:23 I would argue it to be substantially lower.
01:40:26 And your argument is, it's not going to happen anyway, so who cares?
01:40:30 My argument is that we can and should think about limits carefully.
01:40:30 No.
01:40:36 Constructively and over time, and have that debate in good faith.
01:40:42 What I don't want to see is what people are pushing for now, which is saying just get rid of them in their entirety because at some point in the future, this could be bad.
01:40:51 I think that is a bad way to make policy.
01:40:53 I think it's going to have disastrous outcomes for real people.
01:40:56 Was life bad before it?
01:40:58 Life was worse.
01:40:59 Certainly would have been worse for that mom without her kid, right?
01:41:02 It certainly would be worse where, like, there are legitimate cases of shootings that result in clearances because the cars generate a hit on an ALPR.
01:41:15 That's a good thing.
01:41:15 Do you think society would be better if just like all crime was tracked?
01:41:20 Anybody who committed a crime, we could catch them.
01:41:22 Like we just see what they were doing.
01:41:23 No.
01:41:24 Well, like, what's the limit that you'd be willing to accept that criminals can get away with crimes?
01:41:31 I think we're really far away from that possibility, but I don't know that I have an answer to that.
01:41:36 I mean, like, yeah, there's a limit.
01:41:37 Like, I don't want every aspect of our lives open to everyone.
01:41:42 I don't think that's a real threat or possibility at any point.
01:41:46 What do you mean?
01:41:48 I mean, there's capacity challenges, right?
01:41:50 Like, you need enough people to actually do the enforcement.
01:41:52 You need, you know, for AI cars.
01:41:56 Yes, you do.
01:41:57 Who's going to make the arrest?
01:41:58 You don't need to make it.
01:41:59 You get a summons.
01:42:00 You get an email that says you've been summoned to court.
01:42:02 And then, if, let's say, you know, a million people get summonses and 999,000 say we're not.
01:42:02 Okay.
01:42:07 And they plead guilty.
01:42:08 And then they get a fine for the offenses.
01:42:09 And did you know that if every single person who was facing a criminal charge opted for a jury trial, the system would collapse?
01:42:15 It would collapse.
01:42:15 Absolutely.
01:42:16 Indeed.
01:42:16 How does the system operate?
01:42:18 They don't have enough judges or courts to maintain all these criminal trials.
01:42:21 How does that operate?
01:42:22 Well, people.
01:42:23 Right, because they're guilty.
01:42:23 Plea bargains.
01:42:24 So it's kind of like when the liberals were arguing for Biden's, what is it, 88,000 IRS agents?
01:42:31 Yeah.
01:42:32 And they said they're just going to go after those who are not paying their fair share, right?
01:42:36 Sure.
01:42:36 And what did they do?
01:42:37 What did the IRS actually do?
01:42:39 They went after working class people. 0.52
01:42:40 Okay. 0.90
01:42:41 So people started getting letters in the mail saying you owe $70 here and there.
01:42:44 And these working class people, whether they did or did not owe it, had no ability to fight that.
01:42:47 So what did they do? 0.94
01:42:47 They paid it. 0.94
01:42:48 Really?
01:42:48 And the Biden administration was able to recover a large sum of money from working class people under the guise they'd go after the billionaires because these systems only ever go after those who don't have the means to fight.
01:42:58 Because I'll keep it real simple.
01:42:59 I guarantee you, when these cameras are up on every street corner in Washington, D.C., and I'm being hyperbolic.
01:43:06 When you have a large quantity of them in D.C., I guarantee you, I'll be able to make a phone call and say, anytime my license plate comes up in that database, it's immediately deleted, scrubbed, and the machine acts as though it never saw it.
01:43:17 It will scan the plate and immediately say, Disregard.
01:43:20 I can guarantee I can make that phone call.
01:43:22 Can you?
01:43:24 Can my neighbor?
01:43:25 You know, we were going to have power lines.
01:43:26 They wanted to build data center power lines through this area.
01:43:29 And my neighbors came to me.
01:43:31 You'll love this one.
01:43:33 We get a letter in the mail saying they're going to build a new transmission line, it has to go through the area and it's going to go onto your property.
01:43:39 And I'm sorry, it has to happen because the constraints of the community require an expansive power.
01:43:44 But you know what the truth was?
01:43:46 It was all going to the Northern Virginia instance, the data center mass system they've got built in Northern Virginia.
01:43:51 And so I made, so we had neighbors come by and they said, please help us.
01:43:57 Has Tim seen this?
01:43:58 And so you know what I did?
01:44:00 They made a phone call.
01:44:01 And guess what happened?
01:44:02 I got a call back the next day, don't worry, Tim.
01:44:05 That line has been moved.
01:44:07 Can I just make one point about the IRS thing?
01:44:09 Yeah.
01:44:10 Didn't Trump get elected and then undo a lot of that?
01:44:14 I mean, like a lot of the IRS has been gutted in a sense, right?
01:44:19 I don't, did they fire those people that were hired?
01:44:21 I don't know, they fired all of them, but they've certainly redirected, right?
01:44:23 Like there were, what I'm saying is that there was a The point about the IRS agents was not that government agents can't be fired.
01:44:28 It was that they bring in these 80 some odd thousand people under the guise of stopping criminals and they go after regular working class people.
01:44:35 You can make that argument about every government initiative, right? 0.91
01:44:37 Is what I'm saying.
01:44:38 Correct. 0.98
01:44:38 And it's usually true. 0.98
01:44:40 I don't.
01:44:41 I guess that's where we fundamentally disagree.
01:44:41 Yeah.
01:44:45 Be this with like a word with you.
01:44:46 So, the track record of government handling of metadata in particular isn't great, right?
01:44:52 Like, the history has been hey, we're surveilling these guys overseas, and in the process, Tim's stuff gets mixed up.
01:45:01 We're going to put that aside because, of course, we would have to go to the FISA court.
01:45:05 Oh, but by the way, we decided not to go to the FISA court.
01:45:07 We're using it anyway, and we're leaking it to the press.
01:45:09 So, I understand everyone's argument.
01:45:11 But I'm saying like the history of the government.
01:45:14 My argument is less government, more guns.
01:45:19 You got criminals in your neighborhood and you're worried about the crime they're committing.
01:45:22 We should have a right to keep and bear arms and defend ourselves from criminals.
01:45:25 And we need strong men who are willing and strong laws that when I see a dude who robs a house and he's running down the street in work boots, I can stop him without fear that I'm going to prison for the rest of my life.
01:45:36 100% agree with you.
01:45:37 But I think the issue with the point that you just made is that people are conflating things like metadata with the ALPR.
01:45:43 We've had ALPRs for 20 years.
01:45:45 We haven't had the AI advanced technology.
01:45:47 You've had that for 15, 16 years.
01:45:49 As advanced.
01:45:50 Yeah, the ALPRs and AI got integrated.
01:45:52 No, he's talking about the ability to correlate data.
01:45:55 That's new.
01:45:56 These have been networked even back then.
01:45:58 That's not what he's talking about.
01:45:58 He's talking about AI's ability to correlate data beyond from different servers, different data sets.
01:46:06 That's new.
01:46:07 Yeah, but it's not real.
01:46:09 In the late 2000s, a company came out that asked people to go and write down the license plates of vehicles in front of their homes, and they would pay you anytime.
01:46:18 Law enforcement or repossessors got a hit.
01:46:21 You'd get 25 bucks.
01:46:22 And it went viral on Facebook with people being like, this is an amazing way to make extra money.
01:46:26 And then immediately there was this massive, like, holy, this is crazy.
01:46:31 A company was telling everyone, it was a decentralized surveillance network.
01:46:35 And then I don't know if they still exist, but I remember at the time everybody on Facebook started attacking it, dislikes, and just comments.
01:46:42 And then people stopped talking about it.
01:46:44 It reminds me of these First Amendment auditors who will go out into a public space with cameras and start filming people.
01:46:51 Only to get the police called and then eventually get the police to have to.
01:46:54 That's entirely different from a networked AI system.
01:46:57 No, no, I agree.
01:46:58 But what I'm saying is the networked AI system is only picking up things that are on public streets where you don't have an expectation of privacy.
01:47:07 You do if you wear a mask.
01:47:09 Sure.
01:47:09 But again, that's a person.
01:47:11 The ALPRs are not looking at people, they're looking at cars.
01:47:14 I have an expectation of limited privacy. 0.98
01:47:16 When I drive my car, there's not always someone staring at me, there's not always a cop on every street corner.
01:47:23 I don't want to live in a world where the cop is literally behind you 24 7.
01:47:26 But it's not like that.
01:47:27 I mean, there aren't enough ALPRs.
01:47:29 I don't even think that we have the data storage capacity to get.
01:47:32 So you're making a different argument now because if we agree on a moratorium on the expansion of ALPRs, then we're done.
01:47:37 No, but we don't agree on a moratorium because there are places that don't have adequate cameras.
01:47:41 So how many do you consider to be a cop behind you all the time?
01:47:44 Yeah, but it's not behind you all the time.
01:47:46 I think.
01:47:47 I'm asking you how many cameras until you consider the cops to be behind you all the time?
01:47:52 When the jurisdictions that want, Them can achieve the kind of coverage that will give them the protections that cities with adequate coverage currently have.
01:47:59 I think New York is probably.
01:48:01 Are you for that?
01:48:03 Am I for.
01:48:04 Are you for it?
01:48:04 What you just described?
01:48:05 Am I for cities having the kind of coverage that New York has?
01:48:08 Yeah.
01:48:08 Okay.
01:48:09 I don't want to live in a world where the cops are behind me all the time.
01:48:11 The cops aren't behind you all the time.
01:48:13 You just said the cops will be behind you all the time when cities have the adequate coverage they're looking for.
01:48:18 And I asked you.
01:48:19 Good thing.
01:48:19 No, no, no, no.
01:48:20 That's not what I said.
01:48:21 I said, I don't want cops behind you all the time.
01:48:24 There.
01:48:24 I don't think we're going to get.
01:48:25 And then I said, at what point would you consider it to be a cop behind you all the time?
01:48:29 Oh, I'm sorry.
01:48:30 I thought you were asking me, what point would I consider it to be adequate?
01:48:30 I misunderstood.
01:48:35 With cops behind you all the time.
01:48:35 No, no, no.
01:48:37 Oh, yeah.
01:48:37 I mean, like when most of the streets in a city are covered.
01:48:42 And do you want most of the streets in it?
01:48:45 I don't think you need that.
01:48:47 But whether you need it or not, it's not the question.
01:48:48 Well, no, yeah, it is.
01:48:50 I think part of the argument is based on, like, you don't want to be doing things that are unnecessary.
01:48:54 You like the idea that a flock camera can stop someone from kidnapping a child.
01:48:58 I like the idea that the flock camera can aid police in stopping them from kidnapping a child.
01:49:01 You think there should be at least some blind spots because we don't want ubiquitous coverage.
01:49:06 Right.
01:49:07 So, the criminals will still be able to map out those blind spots and kidnap these kids.
01:49:12 Yeah, I don't know that it's going to be a partial surveillance system is pointless because it can't actually spot them.
01:49:17 No, no, because if you put it at the right places, it's going to be impossible to not drive past one at some point.
01:49:25 I loathe the idea that we should take more responsibility from individuals over the things that happen to them and their families, and once again, just give the responsibility to the government.
01:49:36 But that's the one thing that we agreed.
01:49:39 In this country, that the government would have responsibility to do, right?
01:49:42 The government exists particularly to protect people.
01:49:45 No.
01:49:45 Incorrect.
01:49:46 Yeah.
01:49:46 I mean, that is not the founding fathers' vision, the founding documents.
01:49:49 In fact, it was quite contrary.
01:49:50 Security being the true end and design of government.
01:49:52 That's quite the antithesis of what the founding fathers said, such as those who would sacrifice essential liberty for a little temporary security deserve neither and will lose more.
01:50:03 Who said security being the true end and design of government?
01:50:05 I don't know who did.
01:50:07 I believe that was Thomas Paine.
01:50:09 And was he referring to, say, like, The ability to have a coalition of militia to stop from a foreign threat?
01:50:15 I mean, he was talking about that.
01:50:18 Yeah, that's one of the things.
01:50:20 And at the time, there were no police.
01:50:22 Militia was law enforcement.
01:50:23 There were night watchmen.
01:50:24 But those were militia, those were locals who volunteered.
01:50:28 Policing didn't come in until I think 1840s.
01:50:31 Indeed.
01:50:31 So we did not have this institutionalized law enforcement apparatus.
01:50:31 Yeah.
01:50:35 No, but you still had law enforcement, right?
01:50:36 You still had laws in the books and ability to enforce them.
01:50:39 The citizens were undertaking that.
01:50:40 It's a different society, right?
01:50:41 Very different.
01:50:42 And very localized and very much on the responsibility of the citizens themselves.
01:50:42 Yeah, yeah.
01:50:46 And what we got in COVID was when the Attila's gym decided to stay open to violate the ordinance, local police showed up and said, Y'all are good.
01:50:53 We're not going to interfere.
01:50:54 You know why?
01:50:55 Because the cops were members of the community and they knew they had to answer the people.
01:50:58 So you know what the state did?
01:51:00 They called some cops from a different town over and said, You come in because ain't nobody going to stop you and you don't got to worry about it.
01:51:05 That was wild.
01:51:06 And that's what we looked at.
01:51:08 But I'm not defending that.
01:51:10 The idea of an expansive surveillance state when we went through COVID is.
01:51:13 Is just remarkable.
01:51:15 We had an expansive surveillance state when we went through COVID.
01:51:18 And the idea of it being worse is terrifying.
01:51:20 Yeah, I just don't think ALPRs make it worse.
01:51:22 Like, dude, I am with you on, like, you know, ubiquitous coverage of security cameras that are networked with facial recognition.
01:51:29 Like, all of that poses significant threats to privacy that I think we should be genuinely worried about.
01:51:35 But ALPRs looking at license plate at strategic points.
01:51:38 What if somebody, what if somebody, like, borrows your car, right?
01:51:41 And then while they're out driving it, they go 40 miles over the limit.
01:51:41 Yeah, yeah.
01:51:45 Yeah.
01:51:46 They get flagged by a flock camera.
01:51:48 Bring your car back, and you have no idea.
01:51:50 40 miles over the limit is a felony.
01:51:52 Let's say it was in a school zone, too.
01:51:54 Then the cops show up, draw guns on you, screaming in your face, throw you to the ground, dislocate your elbow.
01:51:59 You get arrested for it.
01:52:00 And they say, We have you on camera.
01:52:03 They don't.
01:52:04 We do.
01:52:04 They don't.
01:52:05 They have the car.
01:52:07 And when they pulled that auto blogger over at gunpoint and pulled him out of the car, terrified.
01:52:12 Yeah.
01:52:13 Did they arrest him?
01:52:14 I believe they did, yeah.
01:52:15 I don't think they did.
01:52:16 I think they did.
01:52:16 I believe that was the issue.
01:52:18 I think they put him in handcuffs and detained him until they figured it out.
01:52:18 He got arrested.
01:52:21 How did they figure it out?
01:52:23 By realizing that it was a mistake.
01:52:24 They pulled over the wrong guy at gunpoint.
01:52:26 Did they change his underpants for him?
01:52:29 I bet they had to.
01:52:30 That's for sure.
01:52:32 But you understand that can happen without flock cameras, right?
01:52:35 I mean, like Brian Cashman, I think this happened to the general manager of the New York Yankees.
01:52:38 Like, his car was reported stolen or something like that.
01:52:41 They found the car.
01:52:42 No one ever unreported it.
01:52:44 A police officer saw it on the street and was like, oh, I found the stolen car.
01:52:47 When you call an airline, when you have an issue, do you prefer the robot or do you prefer the human?
01:52:51 The human.
01:52:52 Always the human.
01:52:53 When it comes to law enforcement, I'm not giving a robot authority over any of it.
01:52:53 Great.
01:52:57 But again, the robot's not actually taking enforcement action in the case.
01:52:59 It is.
01:52:59 No, it's not.
01:53:00 It's just telling a cop.
01:53:01 It used to be a human would have to verify under oath when he signed those documents that he witnessed you doing a thing.
01:53:07 Now, the robot does it and you get in trouble for it, and then you got to go and prove it after the fact.
01:53:12 Like, these are hypotheticals that actually.
01:53:16 No, they're not hypotheticals.
01:53:18 People get false speeding camera tickets all the time.
01:53:21 It happened to me.
01:53:22 Like a few months ago.
01:53:22 Yes.
01:53:23 Yeah, yeah.
01:53:24 No, false.
01:53:24 And then Daniel as well is.
01:53:27 I had checked the world of the automated AI teller in law enforcement.
01:53:34 Daniel Turner with the exact same date of birth as me as we were both living in D.C.
01:53:39 Oh, yeah.
01:53:39 He had a middle name.
01:53:41 Literally the exact same date of birth, except he was five foot two and African American.
01:53:44 When I wanted to renew my driver's license, I had an arrest out for my warrant. 0.98
01:53:52 It took me three days.
01:53:54 It took me hours in the courts to prove I was not a five foot two African American.
01:53:59 How did that get entered in the system? 0.95
01:54:01 Glitch.
01:54:02 Yeah.
01:54:03 It was a glitch, and everyone went at the end, and I almost broke down in tears on the last day when I filed before the judge that I was like, You don't know, like, when you dismissed me, like, you have to go get the police report.
01:54:12 I was like, if I am walking down the street right now, I have a warrant out for my arrest.
01:54:17 What am I supposed to do, Your Honor?
01:54:18 And they were like, without the necessary paperwork, boom, boom, next case.
01:54:22 So I have to go to the police department, walk down the street with a warrant on my arrest.
01:54:27 It was three days of hell.
01:54:28 Did you hear it?
01:54:29 There's a flock camera.
01:54:30 Never got an apology.
01:54:31 Never got a misattorney or so.
01:54:33 A flock camera in Florida. 0.97
01:54:35 This is what scares the crap out of me these little AI glitches that are like, oh, darn, it was a mistake. 0.72
01:54:39 There was a woman in Florida who lived in the Orlando area who'd never been to the Panhandle.
01:54:44 Yeah.
01:54:44 A car in the panhandle got flagged by a flock camera and entered her name into a database for having committed a crime, but the database could not determine because it's not a human this woman's name.
01:54:56 And so, next thing she knows, state police are at her house and they're like, You were up, you know, driving your vehicle in the panhandle.
01:55:01 And she was like, I've never been there in my life.
01:55:03 And they were like, Nice try, lady.
01:55:06 Every criminal tells us this.
01:55:07 You're under arrest.
01:55:09 And then she got driven up there, right?
01:55:10 And then she spent, I think, like, I can't remember.
01:55:13 There's a couple stories.
01:55:14 I don't know if it was a few weeks to a few months where they were like, You, your name, your date of birth were entered into the system as having committed this crime.
01:55:23 It's you.
01:55:23 Yeah.
01:55:25 Outsourcing law enforcement to a robot.
01:55:28 Yeah, but it's not really outsourcing.
01:55:29 And, like, let me ask you a question Are you against ShotSpotter?
01:55:35 I generally understand it.
01:55:36 It's acoustic gunshot detection technology, right?
01:55:39 So, like, these sensors that are placed strategically throughout cities and they listen specifically for gunfire that are able to, like, distinguish between, you know.
01:55:46 Yeah, I'm absolutely opposed to that.
01:55:47 100%.
01:55:48 Like, I just think it's unconstitutional and should not be allowed.
01:55:48 Yeah.
01:55:48 Okay.
01:55:52 How is it unconstitutional?
01:55:53 The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, and the government is singling out gun ownership.
01:55:57 No, no, no.
01:55:58 How is it singling out gun ownership?
01:55:59 It's only if the gun goes off.
01:56:00 The triangulation condition.
01:56:00 Yeah.
01:56:02 Is gunfire always illegal?
01:56:02 Right.
01:56:04 No, not always illegal.
01:56:05 Then, okay.
01:56:06 Well, so then I will say this.
01:56:08 I think it's bad, but it's a First Amendment issue.
01:56:11 You're allowed to listen to things in public.
01:56:13 Right, but you're also allowed to watch things in public.
01:56:14 And you can go, indeed.
01:56:16 And that's the issue with flock.
01:56:17 I think it's bad, but it's a First Amendment issue.
01:56:19 That you have a right to put up a camera and watch things.
01:56:21 Right.
01:56:22 So it is a bad thing, but it's protected by the First Amendment.
01:56:25 But you think that ShotSpot is also a bad thing?
01:56:27 For the same reason, yeah.
01:56:28 Yeah.
01:56:29 I mean, I just, you know, most of the shootings in a lot of high shooting neighborhoods don't have a company.
01:56:36 Tell me about the gun laws in high shooting neighborhoods.
01:56:38 They're awful in a lot of places.
01:56:40 You mean they're very restrictive?
01:56:43 In some places, yeah.
01:56:43 In almost all of them?
01:56:45 Yeah, less so now after Bruin.
01:56:46 Probably literally all of them.
01:56:48 Less so after Bruin.
01:56:49 I mean, Bruin's really kind of leveled the playing field.
01:56:51 Yeah, no, like in Chicago, if you have a magazine that can hold more than seven, it's a five.
01:56:55 It's 10, more than 10.
01:56:56 Yeah, but in Chicago, it's seven.
01:56:57 I think it's 10.
01:56:58 I'm pretty sure in Chicago, it's seven.
01:56:59 There are places in the U.S. I'm pretty sure because my friends live in Chicago and they had to recently have more than 10 when I lived in Chicago.
01:57:07 This is recent.
01:57:08 Criminal.
01:57:09 I don't think it's.
01:57:09 There was a camera that would have caught you.
01:57:12 Not in my house.
01:57:13 I have to say, and this is going to make me, and I swear I'm a good person.
01:57:16 I really am.
01:57:17 This is going to make me sound like an awful person, but this is how strongly I feel about this.
01:57:21 I would not give up my rights to not be surveilled.
01:57:25 I don't care about the child and the mother.
01:57:26 Yeah. 0.96
01:57:27 And if the mother is like, oh no, the child's crying, it's not in the Constitution.
01:57:27 I'm sorry.
01:57:31 I'm so sorry for you, Mom.
01:57:32 She did not get out of the car, even.
01:57:34 For a second with a child in the back seat.
01:57:36 Let me put it like this.
01:57:37 I am so sorry for that mother and her child, but that is how strongly I feel like that's.
01:57:42 Let me put it like this.
01:57:43 I am not giving up my freedom because you made a mistake.
01:57:47 I'm sorry.
01:57:47 I'm not.
01:57:48 Do you think that the McMichaels in Georgia deserve to go to prison for the rest of their life?
01:57:52 Ahmed Arbery shooting.
01:57:52 Who's the McMichaels?
01:57:55 George Floyd.
01:57:56 How about George Floyd?
01:57:57 No.
01:57:59 No.
01:57:59 Should Chauvin be in prison?
01:58:01 I mean, I think he.
01:58:04 I don't know.
01:58:04 Ah.
01:58:05 It's a hard case.
01:58:06 No.
01:58:07 The answer is no.
01:58:07 It's easy.
01:58:08 I think it's a hard case.
01:58:09 Chauvin should not be in prison.
01:58:11 He shouldn't have spent a single minute in jail.
01:58:13 Yeah, maybe, maybe not.
01:58:14 Well, he shouldn't have because he arrived on scene with George Floyd already on the ground.
01:58:19 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:58:20 I don't think.
01:58:20 Who's on camera resisting arrest.
01:58:21 Right.
01:58:22 And Chauvin, according to the prosecutors, opted to use lesser force than the continuum allowed.
01:58:29 So he chose to do a neck restraint with the knee as opposed to an impact weapon.
01:58:33 And he went to prison for one reason.
01:58:33 Yeah, yeah.
01:58:35 He was on camera.
01:58:36 The camera created bad press and a mob.
01:58:36 Yeah.
01:58:38 He was on camera.
01:58:39 Indeed, because he and and why should he have cared?
01:58:42 He was doing everything according to his training.
01:58:43 Well, this was actually one of the arguments that I made back then that, like, you know, the idea that his intent was to kill is belied by the fact that he knew the same thing is true with the McMichaels.
01:58:52 A man had been accused of burglarizing several homes, he was on camera burglarizing homes.
01:58:57 It is not in dispute that Ahmed Arbery was a suspect in a string of burglaries.
01:59:01 One of these burglaries was an auto theft that resulted in the theft of a firearm, right?
01:59:05 So the police went door to door showing a picture of him saying he's our suspect.
01:59:08 One day, someone saw him running down the street, made a phone call.
01:59:11 The McMichaels said, Call 911.
01:59:13 Police told him not to pursue.
01:59:15 They decided to pursue.
01:59:16 Here's the thing.
01:59:18 The other guy, I forgot his last name is Brian, but I forgot his first name, follows filming.
01:59:23 He didn't do anything.
01:59:24 He just filmed the guy.
01:59:26 After Ahmed Arbery was killed trying to fight over the shotgun with the McMichaels, no one cared.
01:59:34 It was only when the dude Brian released the footage to a radio host who then published it that they got prosecuted.
01:59:41 That is the surveillance state.
01:59:43 So there may be an instance.
01:59:44 This is not the state.
01:59:45 He wasn't.
01:59:46 Surveillance state.
01:59:47 It's a reference to the ubiquity of cameras and the release of footage, which changes a scenario which otherwise would have been a non issue.
01:59:54 So, the point is, there absolutely will be a circumstance where you are driving down the road and, you know, something happens with your vehicle that otherwise no one would care about.
02:00:06 And the locals will be like, hey, man, chill out.
02:00:09 But with a flock camera, you get a summons for a felony speeding violation or something.
02:00:12 Yes.
02:00:12 Well, this is, again, like we're in agreement on that.
02:00:15 I want limits.
02:00:16 It's going to happen.
02:00:17 I think it will.
02:00:18 I think it will.
02:00:19 I think.
02:00:20 First off, it's already happening in some jurisdictions, right?
02:00:21 I mean, like, there are jurisdictions that have gotten rid of their speed cameras altogether, that have gotten rid of their red light cameras, that have stopped summoning people for those kinds of violations.
02:00:29 I say in my piece on Flock that, like, one of the biggest dangers is that we start using this technology in order to enforce these kinds of rules.
02:00:37 I think that is bad.
02:00:38 I think that will invite a backlash.
02:00:39 And the reason I think it's bad is because it will lead to a place where we completely get rid of all of the possible benefits associated with that technology by getting rid of the technology itself.
02:00:49 We're going to try and grab at least a couple of super chats from you guys.
02:00:52 We'll go a little bit longer.
02:00:54 You know, it was fun.
02:00:55 It's an important conversation, so I appreciate it.
02:00:57 The Mick Glone Code says, Tim, not all Candace fans fell for your trick.
02:01:00 I didn't.
02:01:01 Context does matter when reading.
02:01:02 They didn't read the whole message, but it wasn't unreasonable for them to think what they did.
02:01:07 I would argue it's unreasonable to assume that your worldview, your myopic news cycle, is what everyone is talking to.
02:01:16 Now, what if I, in that tweet about Roosters, which is intentionally a gag, said at the bottom, the issue of men competing in the NBA is massive, and we're going to be hosting a culture war show where I will moderate this debate with prominent individuals on the left and the right.
02:01:31 It would have been a totally legitimate and serious point about a current news cycle item, and the same thing would have happened.
02:01:37 So, you know what?
02:01:37 I'll do it again to prove the point.
02:01:40 I could make a post talking about the WNBA and Candace's fans.
02:01:46 There's a disproportionate amount of them that don't actually read anything.
02:01:49 Hence, they believe that Charlie was a time traveler, had electromagnetic powers, could astral project, was in a secret experimentation program.
02:01:57 Or, how about this that a month after the dude released a video where he begged Gen Z to love the Jews, the Jews killed him? 0.63
02:02:04 It's just absolute insanity. 0.95
02:02:07 But you know what?
02:02:08 There's a cohort of people that just want to believe the government is always bad, no matter who's in charge.
02:02:14 My gripe with the government in the Trump era was that they were lying in the corporate press, and they still are to this day.
02:02:22 And now that you are being lied to by Candace on a daily basis, here's an example.
02:02:26 My brother never tried to kill me.
02:02:28 There is no reality where I ever had to flee from bullets from my brother.
02:02:33 Candace made that up.
02:02:35 But her fans believe it.
02:02:37 Because she just says things.
02:02:39 How about this? 0.77
02:02:40 Her lawyers work in a building with federal agents?
02:02:42 Have any of you ever questioned that?
02:02:44 Apparently not.
02:02:45 Because you don't read below the fold.
02:02:47 Because you watch her show, you assume it's true, and you've never checked for yourself.
02:02:52 Hence the point of my tweet.
02:02:54 People saw the quotes, they saw the retweets, they never actually clicked read to see what I was talking about.
02:03:00 And I was talking about how JD Vance got chickens, and the Washington Post argued that they contacted local law enforcement to figure out if he was appropriately raising those chickens.
02:03:10 And considering I'm a big fan of chickens, they're fantastic.
02:03:13 I thought it would be funny to play this game with the intention, full well knowing that Candace's fans don't read.
02:03:21 They just don't.
02:03:22 And that proved the point.
02:03:23 Don't get me wrong.
02:03:24 You did.
02:03:24 Congratulations.
02:03:25 You know, I respect it.
02:03:26 Some do.
02:03:27 But guess what?
02:03:28 Most of them don't.
02:03:29 So Candace can put out a tweet saying, What did she say?
02:03:35 The gunshots Tim Pool survived were committed by his brother.
02:03:39 That's what she tweeted.
02:03:40 It is an outright fabrication. 0.97
02:03:42 And people started posting pictures of my brother because she's nuts. 1.00
02:03:46 She's just, she's a liar. 1.00
02:03:48 But it works. 0.99
02:03:49 It works.
02:03:50 Because there is a cohort of people, a large amount, with low IQs that don't want to read the news, that just don't trust the government.
02:03:58 My theory Candace married into the British House of Lords within two weeks of meeting the guy.
02:04:02 They didn't go on a single date. 0.91
02:04:03 He called her on the phone and said, Let's get married. 1.00
02:04:05 She then hires lawyers at some point that work in a building with a bunch of federal agents.
02:04:09 That's very strange as well.
02:04:11 Now she's discrediting the movement that helped Trump get elected, and she's lying about me while telling all of you she's the only one who knows, despite the fact that big tech won't censor her at all, even though she's broken all of the rules.
02:04:24 Just weird, isn't it?
02:04:26 But none of you have asked that question, have you?
02:04:28 All right, let's grab some more. 0.99
02:04:29 El Jefe Lopez says, You're gay if you don't give money to Tim. 0.99
02:04:33 Seconded. 0.98
02:04:35 Shadip says, While not directly intended, the Electoral College is a check against mass formation psychosis. 1.00
02:04:40 That is correct. 0.97
02:04:41 Good point.
02:04:42 John Rambo says, The fact is, police gave away that they are watching you via your cameras.
02:04:46 That's the point.
02:04:49 Mythos says, When it comes to flock cameras and their ilk, I am fully prepared to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
02:04:54 This is a step towards becoming like the UK.
02:04:58 Indeed.
02:05:00 Let's see.
02:05:01 The Collins Effect said, Why are there flock cameras installed in parks?
02:05:04 Search for the story.
02:05:07 Interesting.
02:05:09 Mason says, We're not going to get there, but we are already there.
02:05:13 Thanks for making Tim's point.
02:05:15 Wait, making time point?
02:05:17 Tim's point of it being bad.
02:05:20 Let's grab a couple more because we are a little bit over.
02:05:23 Osri says no one mentioned the sheriff that was surveilling his ex and daughter over 600 times.
02:05:28 Remember the story?
02:05:29 I think it was Snowden.
02:05:30 We found out that a lot of these dudes were gooning to images of women in private because they had access to their cameras.
02:05:36 Yeah, I remember that one.
02:05:39 Forced Namechain says AL, PR, and Flock are definitionally mass surveillance systems.
02:05:43 120,000 cameras is a pretty ducking massive system.
02:05:48 I like the autocorrect on that one.
02:05:52 Trevor C says, What's the difference between a cop who sees you doing a thing in a camera?
02:05:55 I think very little.
02:05:56 Ah, but I can correct this.
02:05:57 The issue with Flock is the AI component of it, where it registers in a system that you committed a crime despite no human witness.
02:06:04 Under the Constitution's Bill of Rights, I have a right to confront my accuser.
02:06:08 What happens when your accuser is code?
02:06:10 Then what?
02:06:11 We have an answer to that.
02:06:12 What do you do?
02:06:13 They don't actually allow you to prosecute the individual, which is why the registered owner of the vehicle gets the summons and it's attached to the vehicle.
02:06:19 You don't get points on your license.
02:06:21 You don't get.
02:06:22 Nobody.
02:06:24 Right, the registered owner.
02:06:25 And if you don't pay the fine, what happens?
02:06:26 Then they'll suspend your registration.
02:06:28 Yeah, correct.
02:06:29 So there is a criminal penalty for this violation.
02:06:33 It's not a criminal penalty, it's a civil penalty.
02:06:35 That's losing your right to drive as the result of a crime and moving the vehicle.
02:06:40 Losing that vehicle's registration.
02:06:42 So a moving violation is a crime, right?
02:06:45 Right, if they can prove that you committed it.
02:06:46 But they didn't do it.
02:06:47 And so taking away your ability to drive is a penalty, right?
02:06:50 Right, but they're not taking away your ability to drive.
02:06:52 When they take away your car's registration?
02:06:55 Right.
02:06:55 Like, if it gets to the point where they actually suspend the registration, how do you get your registration back?
02:06:59 Well, you would have to get a different car and register that one.
02:07:01 So you lose your ability to drive your car, right?
02:07:03 Is that a penalty?
02:07:03 That car.
02:07:04 Maybe, yeah.
02:07:05 Is that penalty the result of a crime?
02:07:07 So why are you trying to obfuscate the definition of these words, playing some weird game?
02:07:07 Yeah.
02:07:12 Well, because we actually have jurisprudence on this.
02:07:15 Like, individuals are not, like, the ALPR captures does not constitute evidence that you committed.
02:07:22 Can they take away your registration?
02:07:24 Eventually, if you don't pay the fine, yeah, I think so.
02:07:26 So paying a fine is a criminal penalty.
02:07:28 This is bad.
02:07:30 It's a civil penalty.
02:07:32 Is a moving violation a crime?
02:07:34 It can be.
02:07:35 Okay.
02:07:36 Are there moving violations?
02:07:37 They're not charging you with the crime when they send you that summons, right?
02:07:40 They're giving you a civil summons.
02:07:42 Over a crime.
02:07:44 Over a traffic violation, yeah.
02:07:46 Which is a crime.
02:07:47 It could be a petty offense or a misdemeanor.
02:07:50 Sure, sure, sure.
02:07:50 But again, like they're not charging an individual, they're charging the registered owner of the car for the violation.
02:07:56 Like it's not a tax.
02:07:57 I don't understand these word games.
02:07:59 I mean, am I like, I don't need to even ask you because.
02:07:59 Yeah.
02:08:04 If a moving violation is a crime and a flock camera automatically accuses you of that crime, putting a penalty on your vehicle, and then you're playing word games.
02:08:14 No, I'm not playing word games.
02:08:15 You absolutely are playing word games.
02:08:16 Crime committed.
02:08:17 You must pay money.
02:08:18 If you don't pay money, you can't drive a car anymore.
02:08:20 That's called a penalty.
02:08:22 And the penalty is the results of a crime.
02:08:23 It's a civil offense, but yeah.
02:08:25 It's a civil offense.
02:08:26 A moving violation is a crime.
02:08:28 If it's, yes, sure, but they're not.
02:08:31 It factually is.
02:08:32 You go to jail for this, bro. 0.99
02:08:34 No one goes to jail for an ALPR capture. 1.00
02:08:36 See, you're once again playing stupid word games. 1.00
02:08:39 No, no. 1.00
02:08:39 He's not interested in this fake garbage. 1.00
02:08:41 Listen, what ALPRs do. 0.99
02:08:45 Are you paid by them or something?
02:08:46 Does Flock pay you?
02:08:47 No, but that's a.
02:08:48 I've gotten that question a lot, actually.
02:08:49 Yeah, because what you're saying is just so factually insane and insulting to the intelligence of a regular person.
02:08:54 I mean, I would disagree.
02:08:55 Moving violations are crimes.
02:08:57 If you get two moving violations out of the 21 in Illinois, they suspend your license.
02:09:01 It is a crime.
02:09:02 If you are caught driving after that, you go to jail for one year.
02:09:05 So, when you are driving and your vehicle is in a moving violation, and they take a picture of your vehicle and accuse you of that, and you get a citation for a moving violation that results in a penalty, we call that a crime happened.
02:09:19 You were accused by a machine, and you can lose your right to drive because of it.
02:09:23 Right, but that's called a penalty for a crime. 0.99
02:09:25 Now, you can go ahead and play stupid word games, but that doesn't matter because it's just, I think it's not going to work for the regular person. 0.98
02:09:33 The ALPR is not. 0.98
02:09:36 It's not being used as evidence of the crime, right?
02:09:38 Like, if you get a speeding ticket for a speed camera, the only person who gets a speeding ticket is the registered owner, right?
02:09:46 Like, the registered owner can come in and say this person was driving, and then they can give that individual the speeding ticket if they can prove it.
02:09:52 But you're not getting the reason that they don't prosecute the individual for this, they place the penalty on the registered owner.
02:09:59 Yes.
02:10:00 And so, as they drive your car after the fact.
02:10:03 Yes.
02:10:04 Until when?
02:10:05 What do you mean?
02:10:07 At what point do you lose your right as an individual?
02:10:10 I'm not sure how it works in every jurisdiction.
02:10:12 I think in some jurisdictions, things can get worse.
02:10:13 You understand what penalty means.
02:10:15 You understand what crime means.
02:10:17 Yes.
02:10:18 So we agree that the flock camera will register a crime was committed, right?
02:10:24 Sure.
02:10:25 How else are they going to fine you unless there's a picture of a crime being committed?
02:10:28 Right.
02:10:29 Yes.
02:10:30 Then they will issue a fine to the owner of the vehicle.
02:10:33 Right.
02:10:33 A civil offense.
02:10:34 Which is a penalty.
02:10:35 Which is a penalty for a crime having been committed.
02:10:35 Civil offense, yes.
02:10:38 Sure.
02:10:40 It's not being assessed as a criminal penalty.
02:10:40 That's a fact.
02:10:42 That's not what I said.
02:10:44 Well, then we're clear.
02:10:44 Okay.
02:10:45 And then they can take away your right to use that car in that way.
02:10:48 Maybe in some jurisdictions, I think so.
02:10:50 That would be called a penalty for a crime having been committed.
02:10:53 Sure.
02:10:54 Based on a robot claiming it.
02:10:57 And then what happens if the robot gets the license wrong?
02:10:57 Sure.
02:11:00 Well, then you have a defense. 0.98
02:11:02 But what happens when the working class guy, the license plate is read wrong, never sees a citation or fine, drives, then one day gets pulled over? 1.00
02:11:08 Right.
02:11:08 And the cop says, you're driving an illegal vehicle, you're under arrest.
02:11:12 Yeah.
02:11:13 That's a class A misdemeanor.
02:11:14 One year in jail and a $1,200 fine.
02:11:15 That's a lot of what ifs, though.
02:11:17 That actually has happened numerous times.
02:11:20 And the point is, we just had a story of a guy who was accused of stealing a car because the flock camera got the license plate wrong.
02:11:25 He was stopped for being in a car that was flagged as stolen.
02:11:30 I don't think he was actually criminally charged.
02:11:31 What would happen if he wasn't driving that car and a month went by and then his 16 year old daughter drove that car and stopped?
02:11:38 Yeah, it'd be bad.
02:11:39 Yeah.
02:11:40 We're going to go to the uncensored portion of the show anyway.
02:11:42 But otherwise, we'll just keep debating for 27 years.
02:11:45 Smash the like button, share the show with everyone you know.
02:11:47 You can follow me on X and Instagram at Timcast.
02:11:49 Raphael, do you want to shout anything out?
02:11:53 No, I mean, just follow my work.
02:11:56 If you're interested in what I have to say on this, you can follow me on X. I'm at Rafa Mongual.
02:12:01 Write about this at City Journal, the Manhattan Institute.
02:12:04 Check us out.
02:12:04 Well, right on.
02:12:05 Thank you.
02:12:05 Thanks for coming.
02:12:06 Good time.
02:12:07 Daniel, what's up?
02:12:07 Always good to be here.
02:12:08 Daniel Turner, Power of the Future, powerofthefuture.com.
02:12:10 If you care about energy issues and the communists who run climate change, and if you love sheep and rural farmers, go to Bristol Farm, Virginia on social platforms and follow our beloved Sheep Farm there.
02:12:21 Great to be with you guys.
02:12:22 Awesome.
02:12:23 I am Phil The Remains on Twix.
02:12:25 You can check out all the remains music on Apple Music, Amazon Music, Pandora, YouTube, Spotify, and Deezer.
02:12:30 Don't forget the left lane is for crime.
02:12:32 Carter.
02:12:33 Hello, I'm Carter Banks.
02:12:34 You can follow me at Carter Banks everywhere and at Carter Banks Official everywhere else.
02:12:38 Check out our record label at youtube.comslash at Trash House Records.
02:12:43 Thank you for coming, Daniel and Raphael.
02:12:45 Thank you.
02:12:45 Let's get into it.
02:12:46 We'll see you all over at rumble.comslash Timcast IRL in just about 10 seconds.
02:12:50 Thanks for hanging out.
02:14:08 Go ahead and pull up those callers here.
02:14:12 Are we going now?
02:14:13 Yes.
02:14:14 What's up, everybody?
02:14:14 How are you doing?
02:14:15 Tim had to run inside.
02:14:18 Apparently, his cat jumped in the oven and he has to help Allison get it out.
02:14:21 I'm just kidding.
02:14:23 No, but we went a little over in the IRL portion, so we're going to go right to the callers tonight.
02:14:30 No bantering about ghosts or anything silly.
02:14:32 I don't even think we had anything pulled up.
02:14:34 So, yeah, we're going to go right to your calls.
02:14:38 Who do we have?
02:14:38 Let's see.
02:14:39 Oh, Kilo Charlie 5.
02:14:40 I recommend.
02:14:40 Oh, there we go.
02:14:41 Can we get him up here yet?
02:14:42 Let's get you up here, dude.
02:14:44 Kilo Charlie 5, you there?
02:14:48 Yeah. Yeah.
02:14:49 What's up, man?
02:14:50 Welcome back.
02:14:54 Hey, thanks for taking my call.
02:14:55 So, my question is for the whole panel.
02:15:01 So, regardless of your position on the flock camera argument and their use on highways, how do you feel about the numerous reports of flock cameras reported?
02:15:12 Pointed at gun store parking lots and gun range parking lots.
02:15:17 To me, this surveillance state is an overreach of executive power and should be corrected now before it spirals out of control.
02:15:25 Also, do you feel like this is flirting with anti 2A governance, which could spiral out of control and become a catalyst to a much larger issue?
02:15:35 Look, to be honest with you, my take on stuff like that is probably why people have a problem with flock cameras in general, right?
02:15:46 Like it's not.
02:15:47 It's not the presented argument for them.
02:15:52 It's the possibility of overreach.
02:15:54 It's the possibility of abuse.
02:15:57 Look, you know, there are cameras everywhere.
02:16:00 Everyone walks around with a monitoring device in their pocket all the time.
02:16:07 So it's not that people actually have a significant problem with technology or with the ability to be monitored because even a regular cell phone is pinging a tower.
02:16:19 So they know.
02:16:20 You know, the police could ostensibly know about where you are.
02:16:24 And that's been the same for 25 years now, maybe longer.
02:16:30 But I will say that the issue that I think the issue that I have and the issue that most people have is that you can't trust the government.
02:16:40 And it's the overreach that people are actually most concerned about.
02:16:46 Yeah, look, I mean, I think the overreach is definitely the thing that everyone's concerned about.
02:16:51 What bothers me about the way that this debate unfolds is that the overreach that people point to is just kind of like effusive.
02:16:59 It's not concrete.
02:17:00 We don't, we're not, you know, the only examples that we're given of things that actually happened are either like one off mistakes that represent a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of, you know, the total interactions with the technology that, in my opinion, no more justify getting rid of the technology than, you know, the relative handful of cases of excessive force justify defunding the police back in 2020.
02:17:22 It's just not the way that I think about things.
02:17:24 Like, yes, things.
02:17:25 When you have human endeavors, even technological endeavors, they're going to be mistakes.
02:17:30 They're going to be things that happen.
02:17:32 Perfection can never be the standard.
02:17:34 So I understand your argument, and I think that generally I agree.
02:17:39 But I think that you're also, or we are living in a society that has unprecedented mistrust in not just organizations and the establishment and institutions, but we have been shown.
02:17:59 That we can't trust the government.
02:18:02 The government did massive damage to Americans' trust with all the stuff about COVID.
02:18:09 And you're hearing all the stuff coming out that Fauci was hiding and lying about.
02:18:15 You have significant distrust with banking institutions because of the first housing crash.
02:18:22 You have significant distrust in colleges and stuff like that because of basically because of humanities departments and that stuff is leaking out from the soft sciences into the hard sciences.
02:18:35 So, I think that the reason why you get such spirited pushback is because people don't trust anymore.
02:18:43 And it's, I agree, and I'm with them.
02:18:46 I understand that, right?
02:18:47 But government is not entirely a single entity, right?
02:18:53 Like, you know, it's divided horizontally, it's divided vertically.
02:18:57 And even, you know, within, like, you know, the police are not on the same page as the social workers in any given American city, right?
02:19:05 Like, so the question of who we're discharging.
02:19:08 Being distrustful of, right, is actually, I think, the group that we're probably closest to in terms of like ideals, right?
02:19:15 Like, I think a lot of a lot critics politically would have a lot in common with the media and cop, which are the people who are really kind of driving the use of this technology.
02:19:23 Number two is like, yes, we should be inherently suspicious of giving the government any kind of power or tool.
02:19:23 So that's number one.
02:19:31 But the response to that is within our power, right?
02:19:35 Like, how aggressive that response is.
02:19:38 What I'm saying is that, like, the most aggressive response off the bat to just Ban these things or severely restrict them past the point of making them useful is wrongheaded.
02:19:49 I think it cuts us off from access to real benefits that will help real people, that will make communities significantly better and safer.
02:19:58 Now, how we do that is an open debate that I think we should have with cool heads.
02:20:04 I think you're falling for Boromir's fallacy.
02:20:06 That's my concern.
02:20:08 We're at the point that he's like, we can use this ring to do some good.
02:20:12 And it takes the hero of the story to say, nope.
02:20:16 It's got to be destroyed.
02:20:17 Here's the thing, though.
02:20:18 I don't believe.
02:20:19 I love your intentionality that you can do good.
02:20:22 My concern is that once these structures are in place, the leftist has their good intentionalities.
02:20:28 Like, this is good for us to surveil who is not.
02:20:31 I just don't think that it's actually.
02:20:33 Like, of all the things that are.
02:20:35 But that is not good enough for me.
02:20:36 But listen, out of all the things that are out there, out of all the things that are out there that can be used to surveil us, flock and ALPRs are like down here.
02:20:47 This is like.
02:20:48 But these things I can.
02:20:50 But these things I can voluntarily disassociate myself from.
02:20:54 I cannot voluntarily walk down the street without being recorded by my government.
02:20:58 I could choose to not have a smartphone.
02:21:00 I could choose to have a not smart TV.
02:21:01 There are people who live off the grid.
02:21:03 So I can choose to disassociate myself from these listening devices.
02:21:07 But if I can't walk to the CVS without being recorded at multiple instances by my government, then I don't.
02:21:13 But that's going to.
02:21:14 You can't walk to the CVS without being recorded.
02:21:17 By people's ring cameras.
02:21:18 By people's ring cameras.
02:21:19 Also by government security cameras.
02:21:19 That is not my government.
02:21:21 Right?
02:21:22 So, are you also.
02:21:24 For banning all government TV cameras.
02:21:27 100%.
02:21:28 I do not want to be recorded against my will by my government.
02:21:31 Now, I understand there's some peeping Tom, Phil, who's standing outside his window who records everyone who walks by.
02:21:37 The government can actually do that. 0.92
02:21:38 That's because he's a pervert, right?
02:21:41 But I don't like the fact that if Phil was told by the local police, hey, Phil, we're going to put you here and you have to record everyone and then send us the footage at the end of the day. 0.77
02:21:49 So here's maybe the aftershoot, but they're going to clip that.
02:21:53 They're going to start thinking that you're serious.
02:21:57 To the caller's point, though, you were making a point about, you know, 2A, say, advocates, people that purchase guns and stuff like that.
02:22:07 I think he's talking about a specific case.
02:22:07 Don't click.
02:22:09 So there was a, this went viral, I think, yesterday or the day before yesterday, where there was a municipal gun range in Florida, I think, in Marion County.
02:22:20 It's a government owned gun range, by the way.
02:22:21 It's not a, you know what I mean?
02:22:23 It's not a private gun range.
02:22:25 There's a remote road that leads to the.
02:22:27 There's actually been a couple of cases.
02:22:30 Oh, yeah.
02:22:31 That's the only one I'm aware of.
02:22:32 The one that I saw go really viral was this one, right?
02:22:34 So it's on government property.
02:22:36 It's one facing the road going in, one facing the road going out.
02:22:41 Like, my response to that is, yeah, I don't know whether it makes sense to have them on that street.
02:22:45 It's an unsupervised gun range, right?
02:22:47 So it's a range where people can go.
02:22:48 There are no like range officers on the range.
02:22:52 I don't know.
02:22:53 Like, maybe it makes sense to see if someone does go nuts and do something crazy, right?
02:22:57 Like, you can maybe track the car there.
02:22:59 You don't really go all that nuts on the range.
02:23:01 Like, when you're out, People off the range, sure, yeah.
02:23:03 Well, you've had like, I mean, there have been cases where like people showed up at gun range, right?
02:23:06 I mean, like, you know, uh, um, uh, Chris Kyle, right?
02:23:10 I mean, like that happened on the gun range, um, but I just think about like, so when I go to my municipal gun range, I can't actually get into the range without first showing my ID that I'm a resident of the county to access the gun range without having to pay a fee, and then they also have to see my gun license, right?
02:23:26 Like, that is way more intrusive and gives way more information.
02:23:32 What's interesting to me is, I've never seen Anyone object to that?
02:23:37 But even when I would go to the gun range outside of Chicago, often you have to show an ID or you have to check in to the gunranger sign in. 0.97
02:23:49 It's weird to me that the ALPRs are where we're drawing the line.
02:23:54 Security cameras are way more invasive, facial recognition technology is way more invasive, our phones are way more invasive.
02:24:02 The fact that police can knock on somebody's door and say, hey, can we see your ring camera?
02:24:08 You know, I like I had that my neighbors had something stolen.
02:24:12 They said, Hey, can we possibly see your doorbell camera footage?
02:24:15 I was like, Yeah, if it's useful, like, absolutely, like, we can send it to the police, right?
02:24:19 So, like, but that's the thing, like, most people will not say get a warrant when being asked by the police, like, Hey, can we help catch this guy who stole your neighbor's packages, right?
02:24:29 So, like, I just think we're there, and I'm encouraged by the fact that we've had this technology deployed for 20 years without any real like cause to think that.
02:24:39 They've resulted in a mass invasion of privacy or an extinguishing of our privacy.
02:24:44 We've had them at a high level with AI integrated into it and the network together for 15 years.
02:24:49 The sky hasn't fallen.
02:24:51 Again, doesn't mean that it's not possible, but I think regulating in anticipation of some potential harm in the future in a way that's draconian and overly aggressive is the wrong way to do public policy.
02:25:06 What do you think, Kilo?
02:25:08 I'm going to interject for a second.
02:25:11 The specific thing I was really more referring to was the place that was posted on X, where the flock cameras point into the parking lot of the place that sells guns.
02:25:24 It was a dealership where the place goes in where people can buy guns.
02:25:30 And in my opinion, if they want to post flock cameras on the highways, I don't like it, but I'm not going to go out of my way to avoid it.
02:25:39 But I don't think they should be pointing them at private.
02:25:42 Property or property that's not governed by the highway patrol or whatever for speed purposes when somebody's in the parking lot of a gun store.
02:25:53 And guns is a highly contested issue, anyways.
02:25:57 People, it's a very volatile issue that people don't want the registries.
02:26:03 They don't want people, you know.
02:26:05 And neither do I. I'm with you on that.
02:26:07 Really tracking them.
02:26:08 And I feel like that's treading on thin water.
02:26:11 No, listen, man, I'm with you.
02:26:12 I'm a gun guy.
02:26:13 I carry, you know, I have guns in my house, multiple.
02:26:19 So, yeah, I worry about the degree to which technology can be used to stamp out our rights.
02:26:25 That's a healthy fear to have.
02:26:28 But there are lines that we can draw, and there are rules that we can impose that limit the government's ability to use this in a bad way without getting rid of the potential benefits.
02:26:39 And I think that's the best way to approach anything.
02:26:42 And I think part of why there was such a backlash to the defund the police movement was that people realized that it was silly to get rid of an entire institution based on a relative handful of cases of excessive force.
02:26:54 Like, we shouldn't characterize entire institutions by the potential bad that can be done.
02:26:59 Does that answer your question?
02:27:01 You got anything you want to add?
02:27:06 Nothing on the topic necessarily.
02:27:10 I do want to say two things.
02:27:12 One, I'm going to shout out.
02:27:15 You can check out my group, my server.
02:27:17 I have a prepper group, Black Sheep Prepper, at BSP underscore prepper on X.
02:27:23 And also on a personal note, I don't usually do this, but if you're the.
02:27:31 If you're the religious or praying kind of person, I just found out today that my mother has got liver failure and may not have long to live.
02:27:42 So if you're a praying kind of person, I really appreciate it.
02:27:45 You got it, brother.
02:27:46 You got it.
02:27:46 We'll keep hearing our thoughts.
02:27:46 Amen.
02:27:48 Appreciate you calling in, man.
02:27:51 All right.
02:27:51 Y'all have a good one.
02:27:52 You too.
02:27:53 Yeah.
02:27:54 All right.
02:27:55 What do you got?
02:27:58 Samuel Scrabanti.
02:27:59 You there?
02:28:00 What up, dude?
02:28:02 Hey, thanks for taking my calls, guys.
02:28:05 Yeah, so not to derail this interesting flock camera conversation, but I wanted to bring it back to socialism for a minute.
02:28:12 Thank God.
02:28:13 So, my question is in this increasingly polarizing political landscape, how do we discuss the issue of socialism with friends and family without pushing them further into that ideology?
02:28:25 Say they're starting to flirt with it or starting to mention it as, hey, have you thought about this?
02:28:29 Hey, this seems like a good idea.
02:28:31 How do we meaningfully Talk to people to try and stem the tide here, so to say.
02:28:39 So, in my opinion, the best way to do it is if people are flirting with the idea of socialism, usually it starts with policies that sound good, right? 0.98
02:28:52 Like, people don't jump in feet first and being like, you know what, that guy Lenin was onto some shit, right? 0.79
02:28:57 Like, it takes learning about the first thing you hear about the policies that they're presenting. 0.93
02:29:04 Then people will start looking into where those policies come from and stuff.
02:29:08 So I would recommend that you refute the policies that they're presenting, right?
02:29:16 If they're like, oh, you know, Medicare for all.
02:29:19 Well, look, we can't afford that.
02:29:21 You end up with lower quality services.
02:29:24 You end up with lower quality care.
02:29:26 You end up with wait lists.
02:29:28 Look at how hard it is to get a primary care right now.
02:29:31 That would only get worse.
02:29:33 The costs go up.
02:29:34 We can't afford that.
02:29:35 Afford it.
02:29:36 Look at the debt that we have now.
02:29:38 Social Security and Medicare are two of the major drivers of our debt now, and we can't pay for it.
02:29:44 They're going to be insolvent in 2033 or 2034 or whatever.
02:29:48 Go through the policies that they present, push back on those, and make sure that you have good arguments against those.
02:30:00 Because I think that most people, when they say socialism, especially if you look at polling, most people, when they say socialism, especially if they don't know much about the theory behind it, they are thinking of Scandinavian countries, they're thinking of free healthcare, they're thinking of generous social safety nets.
02:30:17 They're not thinking, oh man, you know. 0.98
02:30:20 Mao had his shit together, right? 0.99
02:30:21 Like, they're not thinking Marx really knew what he was talking about. 0.99
02:30:24 And, you know, the fact that the people don't own the means of production is terrible.
02:30:32 And, you know, profit is stolen from the producer, from the workers, and blah, blah, blah.
02:30:39 They don't think of the theory.
02:30:41 They don't, they don't, they're not usually well versed in the theory.
02:30:44 So I think the most effective thing to do is push back on the individual policies that they're talking about.
02:30:50 I think that, I think also just pointing out the fact that it's never worked anywhere, that it's ever been tried.
02:30:56 And also, you know, it would require giving the government an enormous amount of power, right?
02:31:01 I mean, we've been talking about government power quite a lot, and people seem uncomfortable with it in this very narrow context.
02:31:07 But I bet you there's a cross section of people who are uncomfortable with it, but would also give them the kind of power that the government would need to give you everything that you need.
02:31:15 Yeah, look, if the government, and this is a cliche, but if the government has the Ability to give you everything that you need.
02:31:24 They also have the ability to take away everything.
02:31:26 100%.
02:31:27 And nothing from the government comes without strings attached.
02:31:30 And to me, one of the things that has always spoken to me as a sort of pushback on socialism is the fact that the opposite view is the more hopeful view.
02:31:40 It's the more empowering view, right?
02:31:42 Like the ability that I can go into the world as an adult and make my way and succeed and enjoy the benefits associated with that effort.
02:31:52 That motivates me.
02:31:54 I have this debate with some of my union friends in this concert.
02:31:57 I'll ask them Is there anyone who does your job that you're better at than them?
02:32:03 Are you better at your job than other people who do it?
02:32:05 And does it bother you that simply because they've been doing the job for longer, they have to get paid more than you based on this thing?
02:32:11 And that's the thing that I find actually makes the most inroads.
02:32:15 It gets people to be like, oh, yeah.
02:32:18 I think that is part of the American spirit.
02:32:21 People want to be able to succeed and realize the benefits associated with their effort.
02:32:27 And what happens in these systems where everyone's guaranteed a minimal level and no one's rewarded for the extra effort, it just goes away.
02:32:35 Tell them to get an Airbnb with their buddies.
02:32:38 That's the best way to get rid of the socialist, is because you do an Airbnb with your buddies, whether it's a hunting trip or a bachelor party, and everyone wakes up the first morning, and who the hell has coffee?
02:32:49 Who even brought coffee?
02:32:51 Who filled up all the bathrooms and didn't flush?
02:32:55 And who has toilet paper?
02:32:56 And you're like, so there's always one schlub who does everything.
02:33:00 And then he just gets sick of it.
02:33:01 And then he's not doing anything anymore.
02:33:02 And everyone sits around.
02:33:03 There's like, there's no more Miller Lights.
02:33:05 It's like, well, who the hell's in charge of Miller Light? 0.99
02:33:07 Like, why the hell am I in charge of the damn Miller Light? 0.99
02:33:09 I think. 0.99
02:33:09 No Miller Light fair. 0.99
02:33:10 Sadly, and it's, you know, we're not going to judge how people's circumstances are. 0.98
02:33:15 Socialism does tend to attract losers.
02:33:17 Not that I'm saying your friends or family are losers, they could be in a tough situation in their life.
02:33:23 But I look at the majority of the young folk who are flocking to this movement. 0.98
02:33:27 You know, they chose loser careers in college, they have loser degrees. 0.88
02:33:31 They're deeply in debt. 0.97
02:33:33 They just hate all of their life decisions and they want to blame someone.
02:33:36 And they look at you or me or Phil.
02:33:39 Well, give you a good shout out now, Phil.
02:33:41 And they think that somehow we cheated.
02:33:43 And it's like, no, we just, we can curse on this, right? 0.99
02:33:46 We just fucking worked. 0.99
02:33:46 Yeah. 0.99
02:33:46 Yes. 0.99
02:33:48 I still have to drive an hour home as do you to get back to your hotel.
02:33:53 I have to drive right in one hour. 0.95
02:33:54 It's fucking 10 30 on a Wednesday night, and I got to get up at 5. 0.98
02:33:59 We didn't cheat. 0.99
02:34:01 We just worked. 1.00
02:34:02 And I feel like a lot of the folks who want to gravitate towards socialism are just fucking losers. 0.98
02:34:08 As far as bringing it up conversationally and having them not shoot you down or stonewall you, also, there's a great book called How to Have Impossible Conversations by Peter Bogosian. 0.99
02:34:18 And I would.
02:34:19 I would go read that book.
02:34:19 Peter's great.
02:34:21 I've listened to it on Audible a bunch.
02:34:24 You should also follow his content.
02:34:25 He does a lot of great moderated debates.
02:34:27 I think just sort of illustrates a really good way to bring people together and sort of illustrate where the space is between them.
02:34:33 Don't come off as offensive.
02:34:35 Try and seek to understand first and then kind of like work your way into their reasoning and then try and lead them to water. 1.00
02:34:43 Listen, you fucking losers. 1.00
02:34:47 You want to shout anything out or add anything? 1.00
02:34:51 Nope.
02:34:51 No, I appreciate you guys taking the time and definitely I'll check out that book.
02:34:55 And thanks again for all you guys do.
02:34:57 Thanks for coming in.
02:34:57 Thanks, man.
02:34:58 It's great.
02:34:58 Have a good one.
02:34:59 Cheers.
02:35:01 All right.
02:35:02 What do we got?
02:35:05 Who is this? 0.73
02:35:06 This is White Hot Peppers.
02:35:12 What's up, White Hot?
02:35:13 What's up, man?
02:35:15 Thank you for taking my cup.
02:35:15 Hello.
02:35:17 You're quite welcome.
02:35:19 All right.
02:35:20 So I believe I. Two things, but after hearing about the flock situation, I was hoping maybe to squeeze in a third one at the end if there's time.
02:35:27 Sure.
02:35:28 All right.
02:35:29 So the first one was: is that if the person who you're voting for doesn't have an English or British surname, is that they're not an American and you're not part of the American ethnicity or community? 0.69
02:35:41 This is my hot take. 0.99
02:35:42 I guess I'm fucked. 0.99
02:35:46 And then my question is: why is immigration seen as a good when it's In my opinion, obviously, the failing of a country to take care of its people. 0.99
02:35:57 The argument is that we are not having enough babies, and so we need people to come in to supplement the fact that we have not had enough babies. 0.87
02:36:11 There's also the argument that Americans don't want to do the jobs that immigrants will do, which I don't think is true, but those are the primary arguments.
02:36:20 Can I add one more?
02:36:21 Sure.
02:36:21 Which is that there are some really smart people in the world that weren't born in America.
02:36:27 Who wants to be here and we should take advantage of all that they're going to produce over the course of their lives. 1.00
02:36:32 So I'm of the opinion that we should end immigration for a decade or two. 1.00
02:36:39 Entirely. 0.99
02:36:40 Except for 01 visas, except for the exceptional. 0.80
02:36:43 Yeah.
02:36:44 And there's a couple others that are exceptional.
02:36:48 What?
02:36:49 With exceptions though.
02:36:50 Well, that's what I'm saying, the 01 visas and stuff.
02:36:53 So like Pierre Omidyar, the guy who founded, I'm mispronouncing it, the guy who founded eBay and is worth several tens of billions of dollars. 0.62
02:37:01 Not an American, hates this country, spends gobs of philanthropy to destroy the New America Foundation, all these things. 0.97
02:37:10 Hardcore freaking leftist. 0.98
02:37:11 Now he's a naturalized citizen. 0.89
02:37:12 We welcomed him here because he was a tech genius. 1.00
02:37:15 I look at this guy, I don't want this fucking guy in the country. 0.99
02:37:18 So we want the smart ones, maybe. 0.99
02:37:21 They're not all Elon Musk.
02:37:23 We need to enforce the.
02:37:31 You have to take an oath.
02:37:32 When you, to the United States, you have to say, look, I love the, basically, essentially, the long and short of it is, I love the United States.
02:37:32 Yeah.
02:37:40 I want to be here because I love what the United States is.
02:37:43 Yeah.
02:37:44 We also have historically prevented communists from becoming citizens.
02:37:51 We should enforce that.
02:37:54 If you have an ideology that is counter to what the United States is.
02:37:58 But that's why I'm saying it should be. 0.99
02:38:01 I think the number of people that the United States should let in for the next decade, the number of people that the United States should let in per year is somewhere on the order of 50,000, 50 to 100,000.
02:38:12 I'm talking too many, significant research.
02:38:15 Too many.
02:38:16 Right.
02:38:18 I think that, well, look, I mean, I'm not, I think that, like I said, I think that, you know, the O1 is me, me making concessions.
02:38:27 But, like, but otherwise, I think that we should end.
02:38:30 I mean, we've done it before.
02:38:31 We have a, we have a.
02:38:32 Look, I'm much more restrictionist than what we're, like, been doing for the last 20 years.
02:38:36 I mean, we've been letting in legally over a million people a year and illegally, God knows how many, right?
02:38:40 Like, all that absolutely needed to stop.
02:38:42 But, like, I don't know, man, like, for me, like, the case isn't that, like, you know, we're not having enough babies or that, you know, there's these jobs that Americans don't want to do.
02:38:49 It's like, it's not, Utilitarian in that sense.
02:38:51 It's utilitarian in the sense that, like, there are really great patriotic people who just aren't American, who want to be here, who would benefit our country, who would be net additions.
02:39:01 And, like, if God wanted that person here, he would have had that person born in America.
02:39:08 As far as my argument against the, you know, people aren't, we don't have enough workers and stuff.
02:39:13 I'm, I'm one of, I'm the tech guy here, or not the, I'm the pro tech guy here generally.
02:39:20 I think that robots are going to be doing everything in five years.
02:39:22 I think that, That Elon Musk isn't going to make.
02:39:25 They just figured out how to make a hand that has the same kind of range of movement as a human hand.
02:39:31 I think the human hand has 27 degrees of mobility, and they made a robot hand that basically does all the same things that human hands can do.
02:39:40 That was like a big sticking point you couldn't get the hands to work right.
02:39:45 We live in a human shaped world.
02:39:47 The AI that can function in a world right now, most people associate AI with large language models.
02:39:56 There are what they call the new.
02:39:58 The new technology that they're working on for robots are what they call world models, so that way they can function in the world.
02:40:05 I think all of these problems are going to be the problems that you're seeing with having a basically C3PO or whatever.
02:40:13 Those are going to be solved in the next year to 18 months, and you're going to see a significant rollout of Optimus type robots that function in the world.
02:40:22 And I think that they're going to be sold for $25,000, and you're going to get five years.
02:40:28 You know, 10% interest.
02:40:30 It's going to be just like people, and people are going to decide, do I want to get another car, right?
02:40:35 Or do I want to get a robot?
02:40:36 And people like, there was a time where people were like, oh, these things are going to be so expensive, blah, blah, blah.
02:40:40 And I'm like, no.
02:40:41 Banks are going to see this and they're going to be like, well, finance your $30,000 robot.
02:40:45 It's going to cost you $650 a month and you're never going to have to do dishes again.
02:40:49 I can't believe it.
02:40:49 And people are going to be like, hell yeah.
02:40:51 I want your robot to team up with his cameras.
02:40:52 That's kind of the ideal.
02:40:56 Yeah.
02:40:56 Like, I think at that point.
02:40:57 Look, man, I own a Tesla and I rarely drive anymore.
02:41:02 Really?
02:41:03 It's the best thing ever.
02:41:04 I love driving.
02:41:05 I would go analog.
02:41:06 I mean, look, I can drive whenever I feel like it.
02:41:09 Yeah.
02:41:09 But I mean, I genuinely.
02:41:12 That's funny to me.
02:41:13 Like, I won't trust a Tesla with my life.
02:41:15 Like, I won't.
02:41:16 Tess, if you go mile by mile, I get it.
02:41:20 Human beings get into way more accidents than Teslas.
02:41:22 But I'm still not doing it.
02:41:23 All right.
02:41:24 Like, that.
02:41:24 Yeah.
02:41:25 Like, it is funny to me, though, that like our lines are in different places with different technologies on that.
02:41:30 I mean, look, the.
02:41:33 I'm.
02:41:34 I'm not extremely animated about flock cameras and stuff like that.
02:41:37 I understand the arguments against them.
02:41:40 I'm not really animated about it because I have this.
02:41:43 I mean, I'm the guy that, like, I have an AI agent in my house.
02:41:48 I bought a computer so that way I could run an open claw.
02:41:50 And, like, and the thing is, when you talk, when I talk to it, like, I call him he, like, I call him Tank.
02:41:56 His name's Tank.
02:41:57 Like, everyone that watches the show knows who Tank is. 0.97
02:42:01 And, like, last night I was asking him about, so there's a lot of people on the internet that are always like, oh, the Jews created communism.
02:42:07 Like, no, the Jews didn't create communism.
02:42:09 And I was like, and that's why I was like, Tank, I know that Marx came up with blah, blah, blah, and he was Jewish, but who were the people that blah, Created and we had a big conversation back and forth. 0.54
02:42:19 And you know, at the end, he was like, You know, so there's this one guy that was a Swiss guy. 0.54
02:42:25 I was like, So it was the Swiss?
02:42:26 He's like, Yeah, I actually.
02:42:27 And he replied by saying, Yeah, you got him.
02:42:30 Like, and he made it like he made a joke because it's it's that bothers me.
02:42:34 That scares me.
02:42:35 It's very human.
02:42:36 It's it's he's super handy.
02:42:38 I think he's great.
02:42:39 But the point that I'm making is like, the robots are going to be a thing, and people you're gonna in in five years.
02:42:48 There's going to be robots walking around at the mall with you.
02:42:50 You're not going to, you know, and it's not going to be.
02:42:53 What was his character's name in that movie?
02:42:56 I forget what his character's name was.
02:42:57 I'm talking about iRobot.
02:42:59 Look, man, if people worry about AI, but it's coming, whether for good or ill, it's coming because it's not like it's not slowing down.
02:43:09 The things that AI can do now are incredible.
02:43:12 And once you get your cell phone with an AI in it that can actually do things, you know, you can say, hey, Do this, open this program, or do that.
02:43:24 Like, one of the things, like Tim's, Tim was, me and Tim were having a little back and forth about it the other day.
02:43:28 And he was like, Oh, look, you can already do that stuff with Amazon.
02:43:30 It's like, Yes, you can do that stuff with Amazon.
02:43:34 But like, when you can say, Hey, open Pro Tools, which is a DAW for music, and say, Set up a session.
02:43:43 I need my standard drum with tracks.
02:43:47 I'm going to have this many guitars, this many things.
02:43:49 And it can do all of that, which is not, Very far off.
02:43:53 You know, once the AI, right now AI, like I can have Tank do anything that my computer can do.
02:43:59 And he's on his own computer.
02:44:00 I bought a computer so that way he's not actually tied into my.
02:44:02 Did you get him access to Pro Tools?
02:44:05 No, no, I haven't yet.
02:44:06 Don't update it, Tank.
02:44:08 Yeah, I know.
02:44:09 Don't update.
02:44:10 But like, I haven't tried it yet, but I'm fairly certain that, you know, if I was like, hey, Tank, I just installed Pro Tools, open up Pro Tools and do this, he could do it because he can open up a browser, he can go to websites, he can do.
02:44:24 He can update things on X Wormies.
02:44:26 I know people who swear by it, but it's going to be the thing in the future.
02:44:31 And it's going to be just like Star Trek, only it's not going to be a computer.
02:44:34 It's going to be your own personal AI that actually knows things about you.
02:44:38 Maybe I'll come around to it, but I'm not there yet.
02:44:41 You will.
02:44:42 I'm not there yet.
02:44:43 All right.
02:44:43 So, wait, take one was kick Ralph out of the country.
02:44:46 What was take two? 0.98
02:44:49 So, immigration basically being a net failing of the country, basically sourcing other people to fill roles that it should. 0.95
02:44:57 So, basically, my view of this is that the idea that a population going in decline is basically an alarm bell to bring more people in. 0.92
02:45:10 Because if you look at nature in general, all populations go in an ebb and flow and up and down.
02:45:15 So, the idea is that when you bring in these people who more than likely aren't going to assimilate properly with a smaller population that you're trying to bring back up, it's just going to cause more issues.
02:45:27 Population is going to continue to go down.
02:45:29 And not only that, but with the, I honestly believe that the bringing in the brightest around the world is a red herring just to make it so people can stomach the fact that they will be replaced by skilled labor.
02:45:48 Yeah, I don't know. 0.81
02:45:50 But I can place, I mean, I'm not an immigrant.
02:45:52 I was born here, but my mom's an immigrant.
02:45:55 You don't get me without her coming in. 1.00
02:45:58 Yes.
02:45:59 You may be okay with that, but I feel like I'm pretty assimilated.
02:46:03 We're based in our house.
02:46:06 But the idea is that you could have basically just displaced someone who would have been born in the amount of time it needed for the population just to basically recover through natural phenomena.
02:46:17 Sure.
02:46:18 And you could have been home making, or I say home relative, right?
02:46:22 Your family could have been in your own and in your native country at the time, just making it better through its heaven flows.
02:46:28 Yeah.
02:46:29 But now we have different groups of people mingling who may or may not agree with things.
02:46:33 And it's caused conflict and everyone just suffers.
02:46:37 I mean, look, I don't know how much everything just sucks, but.
02:46:44 I think it's pretty good.
02:46:45 Yeah, I mean, life is pretty good.
02:46:50 Yeah.
02:46:51 I'm generally not on team bum out, right?
02:46:53 I'm on team good times.
02:46:54 Yeah.
02:46:56 And so, generally, I don't think that everything.
02:47:01 There are unique challenges that are going on right now. 1.00
02:47:05 I do think that we do need to deport illegals, people that are here illegally, we need to deport them, people that are here taking advantage of our very generous system, we need to deport them. 1.00
02:47:16 That's one rule I think we should just have. 1.00
02:47:18 You don't come in if you are going to be a public charge.
02:47:21 Yeah, no, not at all.
02:47:22 That's insane to me.
02:47:23 But that goes to the thing that I was talking about earlier the people that are looking to happen to the world, happen to America.
02:47:31 If you're here or you come to the United States because you want the government to take care of you, you're hoping that America takes care of you.
02:47:38 Well, Then America is not the place for you.
02:47:40 You know, there are plenty of countries that have very generous welfare systems as well, or social safety, social systems as well.
02:47:48 You don't need to come to the United States.
02:47:49 You can go to any number of countries in Europe.
02:47:52 They're very clearly comfortable with that.
02:47:55 Look how it's working for them.
02:47:56 I mean, you know, and they're not really, the governments are not learning.
02:48:00 If you look at, in fact, if you look at Germany, the AFD is the most popular, which is the far right party.
02:48:06 And then the other conservative party is the second most popular now.
02:48:10 And for some reason, they're not.
02:48:12 In control of the government.
02:48:14 Yeah.
02:48:14 You know, so, um, same thing, kind of, same kind of thing happened in, in France.
02:48:19 There was, uh, you know, uh, an election and, and the right wingers, you know, won, and for some reason they didn't actually get into the government or they had the majority, but they didn't get into the government because the other, the left wing parties got together and, and basically were able to shut them out.
02:48:33 But, um, so what's your third one?
02:48:36 Um, so it was about the flat cameras.
02:48:38 I was getting a little heated, but I, I've calmed down about that.
02:48:41 Um, the, uh, so I'll, uh, start with, uh, Something that happened to me.
02:48:46 I went to a community college about seven ish years ago, and during my enrollment, I got a letter in the mail saying they had a data breach.
02:48:55 A bunch of vital information was basically stolen.
02:48:57 I may have been affected by it, yada, yada, yada.
02:49:01 About a month ago, I got that same email.
02:49:03 I haven't been to that school in seven years, and they said they got a bunch of security information, basically identity theft stuff.
02:49:10 So, a private institution is having data breaches that basically can be used to negatively affect me.
02:49:18 And now you're saying that we're not only going to expand that type of data information, but into the real world.
02:49:24 It's where flat cameras can basically be collecting my information.
02:49:28 Someone can get a data breach and then basically like ransomware me.
02:49:31 Like, yep, we have all these crimes that haven't been reported on you that we're just going to basically feed to the police.
02:49:36 You can either pay me $10,000 or you could basically pay $10,000 in court fees.
02:49:40 Your choice.
02:49:41 Yeah, I just don't think like ALPRs actually capture crimes.
02:49:45 It's just not how they work.
02:49:46 Like, they get hits on license plates that pass them.
02:49:49 It's a snapshot of a vehicle that's driving past it.
02:49:49 That's it.
02:49:52 It's a snapshot in time.
02:49:53 It's not. 0.95
02:49:55 If you get out of your car and shoot someone in the head, it doesn't capture you getting out of your car and shooting someone in the head.
02:49:59 It just captures your car at the point where the camera is placed.
02:50:03 Like it's just kick on board with this, man.
02:50:06 Well, it's more like this.
02:50:07 Like if I drive to and from work every day, right?
02:50:10 And I go down a piece of road that always has at least like four or five flock cameras.
02:50:16 And they're basically taking video of vehicles traveling back and forth.
02:50:19 And let's say over the course of a year, I somehow commit like 100 fractions, right?
02:50:24 Each numbering in like a $100 fine.
02:50:26 Yeah.
02:50:27 I'm with you there, brother.
02:50:28 Like, stop ALPRs from, like, limit them.
02:50:32 I don't want them being used for traffic infractions.
02:50:34 Like, I'm with you there.
02:50:36 We can, but we can write that rule and impose it.
02:50:40 Well, but also, like, 100 days, like, the other thing is 100 days, like, it's just not happening, right?
02:50:44 Like, the default setting is to auto delete after 30 days because basically, most, my understanding is that, like, most of the servers that, like, traditional law enforcement agencies have would be overwhelmed.
02:50:58 With about 100 days of data collection.
02:50:59 So they have to regularly auto delete in order to not run up against like serious data storage limits.
02:51:07 Like you can, there are cloud solutions probably, but yeah, like I think the vast majority of Flux clients auto delete after 30 days.
02:51:18 Well, so someone couldn't just set a program in there to basically skim information and then take it out onto a private server to then use for later.
02:51:28 Sure, but like what's the information that they're skimming that your car was in front of what can't you know, camera X at certain points?
02:51:33 Like, what does that tell us?
02:51:36 Well, if it's a video file and you have AI basically an algorithm sorting out information going through it, you could then basically piece together a history of certain vehicles and then find who those vehicles belong to and then basically go after the individual.
02:51:53 Yeah, I'm not sure.
02:51:54 And it doesn't have to be private, it could be a government, it could be anyone who decides that they they.
02:51:58 They don't like person X, right?
02:52:01 Like, this is just data collection to be basically freely used by whoever wants to basically get their hands on.
02:52:07 Yeah, I just think, of all the data that I'd want to collect about someone, like whether their car passed a certain street is like the least interesting thing about them.
02:52:16 But that's you, and you have a good heart and a clean conscience.
02:52:20 Like, walk me through the concrete.
02:52:22 I don't know if we're going to get to the bottom of this tonight, but we do have one more caller, so we should take that one.
02:52:29 I totally get it.
02:52:30 So I'll give out two shout outs. 1.00
02:52:33 One shout out is to a friend of mine who does an art channel called Dartagoon, D A R T T A G O N. 1.00
02:52:41 And then to my pregnant wife. 1.00
02:52:44 She's eight months pregnant.
02:52:45 Congratulations, man.
02:52:46 Congratulations, dude.
02:52:47 Best thing in the world.
02:52:48 All right.
02:52:49 All right.
02:52:49 Thank you.
02:52:50 Thanks for calling in, bud.
02:52:50 Sure, man.
02:52:52 We got one more.
02:52:53 Last but not least, X ray 4552.
02:53:00 What's up, man?
02:53:02 How's it going?
02:53:03 Going well.
02:53:06 I'll be short and sweet.
02:53:07 I'm going to talk about the flock camera controversy.
02:53:13 Any of y'all think Lincoln could have got away with what he did had the internet been?
02:53:18 Absolutely not.
02:53:21 I want to find out.
02:53:25 Well said. Well said.
02:53:27 Touche.
02:53:28 Yeah.
02:53:29 I mean, I don't know.
02:53:32 But look, you know, presidents have done things that are beyond their stated powers essentially since, definitely since the Louisiana Purchase.
02:53:44 There was a question as to whether or not that was even right, and Jefferson still did it.
02:53:48 Yeah.
02:53:49 You know, presidents have been pushing the authority of the office of the president for as long as there has been an office of the president, or at least since Adams, right?
02:54:00 Adams did the.
02:54:04 What was it?
02:54:04 The Stamp Act.
02:54:08 Was it this?
02:54:08 No, not the Stamp Act.
02:54:09 The two.
02:54:09 What was it?
02:54:10 The Boston Tea thing?
02:54:13 No, the Tea Party was before the.
02:54:15 Adams passed two laws that were questionable.
02:54:18 Well, Congress passed two laws.
02:54:19 Yeah, well, yeah.
02:54:20 So he.
02:54:22 Well, anyways.
02:54:23 We're talking about the Alien Sedition Act.
02:54:24 Yeah, the Alien Sedition Act.
02:54:24 There you go.
02:54:27 So, yeah, the president has been pushing the boundaries of what the president can do for as long as there has been a president, just about.
02:54:34 I think Washington's the only one that didn't.
02:54:38 And we haven't had a Washington since Washington.
02:54:40 So, you know, it's, in my opinion, considering how popular voter ID is with the American people, and the only thing holding it up is the Senate.
02:54:54 I think the president should.
02:54:55 He should declare a national emergency, say, look, you know, the American people want this.
02:55:00 The Senate is holding it up.
02:55:02 The House has passed it.
02:55:03 I would sign it.
02:55:05 And we are concerned about the security of our elections.
02:55:08 So, you know, see what happens.
02:55:11 Because the worst thing that can happen is the courts, you know, put an injunction or stop him.
02:55:16 If they, you know, I don't know that they would or if they could or how they would do it.
02:55:21 It's likely that a court would try to put some kind of injunction and prevent it.
02:55:25 But I don't know if that's possible when it comes to a state of emergency.
02:55:28 Yeah, I'm not really sure with a state of emergency.
02:55:31 But one thing that does kind of rub me the wrong way is just the idea that something that was meant to be a legislative initiative that fails on that front, that we do it some extra legislative way.
02:55:44 I understand.
02:55:46 I don't know.
02:55:46 I'm with you on the policy side.
02:55:48 I want voter ID, I want the SAVE Act to pass.
02:55:53 But there's a reason that it was introduced into Congress.
02:55:57 I think our founders understood that the limits on power would always be tested.
02:56:08 I don't know.
02:56:09 I'm torn on how much I want to encourage. 0.98
02:56:12 Founders will be appalled that women can vote. 0.99
02:56:15 Okay. 0.99
02:56:16 There's a lot of things that the founders, if they saw what was going on here, they'd be like, you must be fucking kidding me.
02:56:26 So, yes, I mean, if you want to reference the founders, I.
02:56:29 I would reply with, well, the founders intended only landowners vote.
02:56:36 Yeah, but I'm referring more to the process, right? 0.94
02:56:40 Yeah, and women not voting was part of the process. 1.00
02:56:44 They were intentionally left out. 1.00
02:56:45 They did a constitutional amendment to rectify that through the process that they laid out, right?
02:56:50 So, like, I don't know.
02:56:52 There's a separation of powers for a reason. 0.95
02:56:55 I want to try and keep to that.
02:56:58 I don't have my mind made up on whether this is within the president's power or whether it's a good idea, but.
02:57:05 I don't know.
02:57:05 I'd much prefer Congress to act.
02:57:08 I would prefer the Senate to vote on it as well, but the Senate won't even vote on it.
02:57:13 Yeah. 0.97
02:57:14 So sometimes that's sometimes it sucks.
02:57:17 I get it.
02:57:18 You should do it.
02:57:19 I think that, I think that, I think that the, because it's not, it's literally just an ID.
02:57:27 Yeah, yeah.
02:57:29 You know, it's not some kind of expansive change to the government.
02:57:33 It's just, you know, and so, I mean, I understand what you're saying, but I do not find your argument compelling.
02:57:40 It happens.
02:57:40 How about that?
02:57:41 It happens.
02:57:42 Story of my life tonight.
02:57:43 What do you say, X Ray?
02:57:46 That's it, man.
02:57:47 I'm with you, Phil.
02:57:48 All right, man.
02:57:49 Got anything you want to add or anything you want to shout out?
02:57:55 Anything that happens, we're ready here.
02:57:57 I've got more than one round, less than 100,000.
02:58:02 Nice.
02:58:03 Good man.
02:58:04 Do you have food?
02:58:06 Do you have food and do you have body armor?
02:58:07 I've got food.
02:58:08 I own a farm.
02:58:09 Oh, okay.
02:58:10 So do you have body armor?
02:58:12 We have everything ourselves here.
02:58:13 You got body armor?
02:58:14 I'm completely self sufficient.
02:58:15 I have level four.
02:58:16 Ah, there we go.
02:58:17 You know, body armor is legal in New York?
02:58:17 That's what I'm talking about.
02:58:19 Yeah, it's stupid. 1.00
02:58:20 It's real stupid. 1.00
02:58:20 It's crazy. 1.00
02:58:21 There's body armor in my car now.
02:58:23 Good for you.
02:58:23 All right, man.
02:58:24 Thanks for calling in.
02:58:26 Thanks, dude.
02:58:27 Take care, bud.
02:58:27 Have a good night.
02:58:29 Well, thank you for coming and being the whipping boy for tonight.
02:58:29 All right.
02:58:33 All good.
02:58:34 Thank you very much for coming in to sit in third chair.
02:58:36 Always a pleasure.
02:58:36 We appreciate it.
02:58:37 It is.
02:58:38 Thank you, man.
02:58:39 Good for you, Carter.
02:58:40 Appreciate you, dude.
02:58:41 Ladies and gentlemen, we will see you back here tomorrow.