00:06:23.000Guys, welcome to another episode of Triggered.
00:06:25.000We're going a little unconventional today.
00:06:27.000We got Dr. Mehmet Oz, the head of the CMS working under Bobby Kennedy at HHS, the Health and Human Services in the government.
00:06:35.000We're going to be talking about all things as it relates to fraud, AI, Trump RX, all of it.
00:06:42.000And of course, don't forget about our brave sponsors for having the guts to support this program.
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00:08:53.000I'm like, wow, I didn't even know about some of these things.
00:08:56.000So, you know, let's get into the big one first because I've covered it so extensively on the show.
00:09:03.000The fraud around this country is insane.
00:09:07.000I mean, it's the GDP of large nations, it seems.
00:09:11.000And it does also seem that so much of it seems to come out In the healthcare space, whether that's Medicaid, whether it's hospice care.
00:09:20.000I know you've been intimately involved in sort of discovering some of that, hopefully, by the time we're done with all of this.
00:09:28.000But talk about how the system was able to get set up that people could siphon out billions, bad actors just stealing from the American taxpayer.
00:09:36.000Well, let's put it in perspective because this is a topic that the president has spoken about because he focuses on the big problems and he emphasizes our need to address them.
00:09:46.000And if you just look objectively at where the fraud is in America, you'd go to the biggest spender.
00:09:58.000That's twice the defense budget when we're not at war.
00:10:01.000And so the opportunity for fraudsters to get involved and harpoon the hippopotamus of Medicare and Medicaid is a great one.
00:10:08.000And we have foreign governments involved in this, uh, foreign nationals in America, but we also have bad people in America don't share our values taking advantage of these programs.
00:10:16.000So just to put some, some broader, uh, architecture on this during COVID, there was money that was literally thrown at people.
00:10:27.000You wouldn't even realize it was happening.
00:10:29.000And that taught a lot of bad actors that they could come after the American people's, you know, safety net, Medicare, Medicaid, and get away with it.
00:10:38.000And under the Biden administration, and this is what I'm saying is, you know, is widely appreciated, there was a overt effort to tell federal employees working at centers of Medicare and Medicaid where I am, that they didn't have to worry about fraud.
00:10:53.000They needed to focus on enrolling people.
00:10:56.000Get more folks lined up to participate and you'll do better.
00:11:00.000And the reason I think, because I tried to get into why this would be so, because, you know, in general, you'd want to police the system while you're building a safety net.
00:11:08.000If you sign somebody up for Medicaid, you must also, by federal law, give them information about voting.
00:11:17.000So it's basically political patronage.
00:11:21.000It's a feature that they gutted the fraud, waste, and abuse programs within Medicaid, for example, which is the programs for poorer people, vulnerable people run by states.
00:11:32.000And so the federal government actually, although we pay the bills, we don't audit where the money goes.
00:11:38.000Governors could game the system or people who work under them.
00:11:42.000They could extract billions of dollars from the federal tax rolls to put into care for illegal immigrants, for people aren't supposed to get Medicaid, for people had double or triple insurance coverage because they didn't care.
00:11:57.000You've got states like California running sloppy programs and less affluent states that are still blue states like New Mexico are paying the tab.
00:12:05.000And that's just not fair in a federal system.
00:12:07.000So, I mean, we've talked about it, obviously, from the fraud perspective, not just the fraudsters, but ultimately, you know, a kickback to the Democrat Party.
00:12:45.000If you want to get a lot of Democratic voters on board, go find out where the Medicaid patients are and sign them up to vote.
00:12:50.000Now, again, it's clever politics, but, you know, in the end, all of us are hurt because people lose confidence in these precious programs that are so beautiful.
00:13:18.000President Trump saved Medicaid because he took out all the legalized money laundering that was going to build for trillions of dollars out of the system that would go into state coffers where there's no accountability.
00:13:29.000And some of the things as you begin to read about and learn more about what the fraud is, these bad apples aren't going to just steal your money.
00:13:52.000We think you're going to die within a few months.
00:13:54.000Six months was the number that was generally agreed on as the, as the, as the time that you would be expected to pass.
00:13:59.000We're going to trade in your traditional health insurance to give you a better solution for hospice.
00:14:05.000And by making that trade, the government actually saves a little money because they're not paying for unnecessary hospitalizations because you're going to die anyway.
00:14:12.000But we make your life easier at the very end.
00:14:52.000And the corruption doesn't just destroy the medical system, but you now have money flowing to organize criminal efforts.
00:14:57.000Uh, the state government looks the other way.
00:14:59.000They're getting money back for this in, in, in ways that we believe might be linked to, for example, well, that we'll talk about that in a second.
00:15:06.000But there's a lot of possible reasons that doesn't get enforced, but it doesn't.
00:15:10.000In 2022, the state auditor general in California tells Gavin Newsom, you have unmitigated fraud.
00:15:18.000One third of all the hospices in the country are in Los Angeles, not California.
00:16:16.000Well, I spent last, the dawn hours last Thursday in Los Angeles with Billy Asile, who's an excellent U.S. attorney in Los Angeles, appointed by this administration.
00:16:25.000We went with a SWAT team and took out some of these fraudsters and in handcuffs, carted them off to jail.
00:16:30.000They get arraigned and these folks are going to do prisons time.
00:16:34.000So it's a completely A focus of the task force, something that the president announced at the State of the Union address a few weeks ago.
00:16:41.000The next day, the vice president and I, vice president in charge of the task force, uh, rolled out announcement.
00:16:46.000We have banned all durable medical equipment suppliers, new ones, from entering into the marketplace until we can fix what's going on there.
00:16:53.000Durable medical suppliers, by the way, they sell you wheelchairs and canes.
00:18:23.000You know, we were, we were on Air Force One the other day and I walk in there because he wants to talk about something and he's got an orange soft drink on his desk.
00:19:23.000And, uh, that, that week, uh, Secretary Clinton got sick, and she had to pull out of the show, and they want me to pull the, your dad from coming on.
00:19:31.000And I said, well, you know, he's the nominee of the Republican Party, he's willing to come on and defend his health.
00:19:45.000And so, so he comes on the show, and he, and God bless him, he brings the actual, a legitimate note from a doctor with all of his lab reports.
00:19:52.000And I say, can I show these to people?
00:19:54.000He's, yeah, you can have it, take it, share it.
00:19:55.000So I read the note on, on the air, and he was in perfect health.
00:19:59.000I mean, his testosterone, quite frankly, was through the roof, not taking any supplements.
00:20:03.000Uh, and so as I look, as I went through this, it's, it's uncommon to see that healthy, a list of healthy, of labs of anybody, even if they're drinking this, you know, or eating unpopular, you know, non-healthy foods, I'll say.
00:20:17.000But, uh, some of that's genetic, but some of it your dad argues is because when he's on the campaign trail, he doesn't want to get sick.
00:20:24.000So he eats junk food, But it's food made in large reputable chains because they have quality control meals.
00:20:30.000And there are times he doesn't eat like that.
00:21:11.000And so he always jokes when he pushes that button for the Diet Coke and the candy, uh, the big bowl of candy, you know, he's like, that's my alcohol.
00:21:19.000And I was like, okay, you know, there's some merit to that.
00:21:22.000You know, we had the new dietary guidelines that came out and, uh, we sat in the back before we went out to do the press conference and Caroline, you know, had gone through all the top possible questions you might have me and Bobby and, and she, so we're on stage and the first question, of course, none of us expected, which was, what about alcohol?
00:21:39.000And I turned to Bobby and said, you should take that question.
00:21:41.000He goes, I'm not taking that question.
00:21:52.000And your dad, of course, doesn't drink at all, which I do think is a very healthy approach, uh, to, but for a lot of Americans, alcohol is a social lubricant.
00:22:01.000And there's nothing healthier than having a good time with your friends, as long as no one's getting hurt.
00:22:05.000Yeah, I heard that answer, and I was like, you know what?
00:22:07.000It was, it was very unconventional, and yet, I think it actually is very much right.
00:22:12.000You know, as someone, you know, drank too much in my twenties, and, you know, as a kid, uh, you know, there was, there's a point where it can be way too much, but you're right.
00:22:21.000For the average person, you know, a glass or two of wine, whatever it may be, beer to, like, It changes that dynamic and that sort of happiness that comes from it.
00:22:30.000I'm actually a believer in that because there are a lot of people that are just, especially these days when younger people are just stuck on their phones all the time.
00:22:37.000They don't have the social norms that we grew up with.
00:22:40.000It's a lot harder for them to converse.
00:22:41.000And so I think there's a component to that.
00:22:42.000There's a lot of people who celebrate around alcohol.
00:22:44.000And if you go to places where people live a long time, like Sardinia, the Blue Zones, they will sit around a bunch of 80, 90 year old men overlooking these beautiful mountains and the heights of Sardinia.
00:22:56.000They'll have tiny, nitty gritty glasses of their Yeah, that's a problem.
00:23:35.000I mean, he'll call me at all bizarre hours, as I'm sure he does you as well, and have questions.
00:23:40.000Yeah, I think even if he's not going to adhere to a perfect diet himself, I think he wants people to at least have the knowledge.
00:23:46.000And, you know, if you go back, you look at the food pyramid, all these things that we were taught as kids, it really was always upside down and broken, largely paid for by large corporations.
00:24:01.000We just got all the hospitals in America, sent a letter to them saying we want you to adopt this food pyramid approach to the hospital foods.
00:24:07.000You know, hospital, when I was training at Columbia, when you go to the ICU, you cannot leave the ICU because the patients are too sick.
00:24:23.000And, and fair enough, most of the food that we serve in hospitals, it, you know, it's pejorative to say your food tastes like hospital food.
00:24:29.000And there's a great, uh, experiment now being done at Tampa General.
00:24:33.000And Bobby and I just, like the Secretary of Kennedy and I just went down to Miami to, to launch this program at the, the, the Nicholas Children's Hospital there.
00:24:40.000But they're a, they were able to, they're making bespoke food for people in hospitals and it's not costing them more money.
00:24:46.000Because you throw a third of hospital food away anyway.
00:24:56.000Kids in schools, fatter than they've ever been before.
00:25:00.000I know it's less your world, but, you know, in the overall HHS world, uh, is there a way to work with the Department of Education to be able to bring this and implement it to young kids?
00:25:09.000Because I think also there's a habitual component of this.
00:25:12.000If you, if you grow up eating it right, it's just sort of natural.
00:25:51.000But because there was this dishonest narrative that whole milk was bad for you, people who were in charge took out the fat.
00:25:58.000Now, I don't know if you've tried skim milk Well, I drank it for years until I actually started doing some of the research and seeing it myself.
00:26:07.000It's like, wait a minute, the fat's actually better for you than what they jack these things up with to create the flavor, which is ultimately carbs.
00:26:16.000Again, another thing was just totally, totally backwards.
00:26:19.000To get kids to drink their milk, a dairy product that's now skimmed, they add chocolate syrup.
00:26:24.000Total calories are the same as the whole milk, but now you have skimmed milk, which is basically all carbs, because if you take the fat out, you'll have the carbs.
00:26:51.000They say, wait a minute, you gave me something that tastes sweet, like if it's a, if it's a diet soda, and yet my brain didn't get calories.
00:26:57.000So I want you to go back and find calories.
00:26:59.000The reason nuts in every study ever done, people eat nuts, actually lose weight.
00:27:04.000They don't gain weight despite the calories of nuts is because nuts have nutrients.
00:27:55.000And yet you see a huge weight problem.
00:27:58.000Talk about that, you know, cause it does seem sort of ironic.
00:28:01.000I mean, there's almost like an appetite suppressing component of that.
00:28:04.000Are you better off being a bit of a smoker within reason and, and not fat or obese or not?
00:28:09.000You're, you're definitely better off not smoking.
00:28:11.000Smoking has a whole series of other problems and pathologies, but smokers know that they will stay thin if they smoke.1.00
00:28:19.000That's why many women used to smoke.0.98
00:28:21.000It was, it was part of the women emancipation So, this is getting back to, you know, the early, uh, years of advertising.0.97
00:28:38.000This is, you know, 20s and 30s, 100 years ago.
00:28:40.000Um, and it was very effective, but there are no alternatives to smoking like these, uh, these heated cigarettes that are widely available in Europe.
00:29:04.000And it's cleaner, and it's actually quite popular as an alternative to cigarettes.
00:29:08.000Vaping are, are, some of the vapes are made in, you know, in China, so we don't know what's really in them, so we have concerns about them.
00:29:13.000But there are other ways of getting nicotine that gives you the boost.
00:29:20.000What, what, what do you think about, uh, the nicotine pouches, uh, as it, as it relates to health and overall, uh, where, where it's so popular, it feels, especially with, with younger people these days, uh, I think they're healthy enough, but let me just make one sort of overarching comment about substances in general.
00:29:37.000You should never be dependent on an external substance to be the best you can be.
00:29:42.000But all of us enjoy coffee, one of the pouches that you have in your, in right now that you can dab or use.
00:29:50.000You don't want to destroy your gums with, you know, the, some of these products, but the ones that are out there now are made in ways that, that protect you in what, you know, enough.
00:30:04.000You know, go without anything in your body.
00:30:06.000Make sure you know what that feels like, and then you can go back to having your coffee in the morning.
00:30:09.000And I bring that up because coffee is something that we all accept as normal, but if you have to have a coffee when you get up, you're addicted to the caffeine.
00:30:17.000I actually went through that myself where I was drinking like north of a thousand milligrams of caffeine a day.
00:30:23.000I'd wake up, I'd have some sort of two or three energy drinks, whatever it is throughout the day, and I My mood, you know, it was great for a little bit, but 45 minutes later, you just sort of crash and then you try to double it up and you just get progressively grumpier.
00:30:39.000So I literally cut it almost all out, other than like a morning coffee or something like that.
00:30:43.000And it took a little bit of time, but once I got back to like a normal level of caffeine intake, I felt exponentially better throughout the day.
00:31:42.000And the NIH right now is reproducing all the fundamental studies because so many of them were dishonest.
00:31:48.000And when you build an entire literature around a health topic on a faulty chassis, a bad foundation, it collapses under the weight of that because people get sicker.
00:32:10.000My Instagram feed just gives it to me every other post at this point.
00:32:14.000All of the stuff as it relates to peptides.
00:32:16.000Because it does feel like that has made a huge, huge difference for a lot of people, but there is sort of a component of dependency on that.
00:32:25.000Is that different because you're perhaps supplementing something you're not able to get elsewhere?
00:32:30.000Well, let's broaden the topic to hormone replacement therapy in general.
00:32:34.000So, one of the biggest mistakes. in women's health has been this, this, this, this honest narrative that hormones taken during menopause are dangerous.0.95
00:32:45.000There's precious little evidence to support that.
00:32:48.000Whatever evidence there is, we believe be mitigated by taking bioidentical hormones.
00:32:54.000Marty McCary, who runs the FDA, is taking a strong stance on this.
00:32:59.000And so if you're a woman, and this starts when you're in your forties, because you start, progesterone is like Valium for the female brain.
00:33:06.000When you get pregnant, the first thing that goes is your progesterone goes up because it keeps you calm and tolerant of this big thing invading your body, right?0.82
00:33:13.000Having had five kids, I'm not, I'm not always sure there's such Tolerant when they're pregnant, but I'm not allowed to say that out loud.
00:33:25.000But Valium does tend to come, women, and when they're Valium, I'm sorry, progesterone acts like Valium in doing that.0.88
00:33:32.000When your progesterone starts to come down in your 40s and 50s, you become less tolerant of the BS that you tolerated.0.83
00:33:38.000That's why most divorces in the, in, in, once you get to age 50 are instigated by women, not men.1.00
00:33:44.000Because they say, well, you're a jerk.1.00
00:33:45.000You've been a jerk our whole married life.1.00
00:33:47.000I'm not tolerating anymore, and they walk.0.99
00:33:49.000And so, The ability to give women back progesterone or estrogen, which deals with the hot flashes, the inability to sleep, um, the, a lot of the irritability, the brain fog, fog, uh, also is helpful.1.00
00:34:00.000And women stop making testosterone as well.0.57
00:34:04.000So you give women these hormones at, at a critical time in their life and it smooths out the menopause process for at least a third of women.
00:34:17.000Uh, they stop making growth hormone and they're now peptide.
00:34:21.000Many of these developed in Eastern Europe and by the Russians.
00:34:23.000They use them as Performance enhancing tools.
00:34:25.000And there was a fair amount of research done, but again, it's Eastern European and Russian research, not studied under traditional American oversight.
00:34:34.000But it doesn't mean that that doesn't work.
00:34:36.000No, they were pretty good at what they did at the time.
00:35:00.000Uh, there's the issue of compounding and be able to basically have, you know, generics of this version, which I think also eliminates sort of the black market side of this where you don't exactly know what you're getting and probably not getting exactly what you're being told.
00:35:13.000You know, are there efforts to make this more affordable so that everyone has that same chance to be able to utilize these things to optimize their bodies?
00:35:21.000But I would argue the myopic approach to this space by conventional medicine.
00:35:27.000Frankly, people like my pedigree, I mean, I'm professor emeritus at Columbia.
00:35:33.000We have been disdainful of this area of research.
00:35:37.000And it is an unfortunate blind spot that I do think academic medicine is engaging it now, but you have to have researchers, high caliber folks, go out and get funding and study how these things work.
00:35:48.000For example, does testosterone help men if they have low testosterone?
00:36:01.000You know, it's great for a little while, then you become dependent, you stop producing natural testosterone.
00:36:06.000So there's also the peptides that'll just stimulate your body's natural way of making it themselves, which is probably better because you don't become as dependent.
00:36:14.000And some of these medications, as you know, that stimulate growth hormone, for example, are more natural ways of keeping you, because growth hormone is the ultimate way that you'll stay feeling youthful.
00:36:23.000But what's the best way of generating growth hormone?
00:36:26.000And so if you're not sleeping well and not doing the other things in your life, diet, exercise, et cetera, that are helpful for a youthful life.
00:36:33.000Just, you know, mainlining some of these peptides is not going to overcome that.
00:36:37.000So on top of that, if there's still a problem, I do think they make sense.
00:36:41.000And folks who have means definitely seek the amount and they get good results oftentimes because they have high quality docs involved in the process.
00:36:48.000There's this whole sort of side, not black market, it's like sideshow that there's not being embraced by traditional medicine.
00:36:56.000This is again, getting back to this broad concept of food.
00:37:00.000Why is it that we're forcing medical schools to teach students about nutrition.
00:37:05.000And I'll tell you something that I don't talk about much.
00:37:07.000I ran for student body president at, in, in, in Penn, on, on my campaign promise was to put a nutrition class in the school.
00:37:18.000Now, Penn is a top tier medical school.
00:37:20.000We should have had a nutrition class, but we didn't.0.98
00:37:23.000We only learned about these rare African, you know, Koshakor and, you know, Berry Berry, these weird, you know, nutritional deficiencies.1.00
00:37:47.000So we pander, we say, oh, yeah, you'll eat right, but what does that really mean?
00:37:51.000Teaching people culinary nutrition, where we actually push you as a patient to learn how to make something with beans in it and learn how to eat them and replace some of the junk that you're eating.
00:38:00.000And that's affordable, by the way, if you use some of these high quality sources of protein, that actually matters.
00:38:06.000But if you never teach anybody, you don't have that until you.
00:38:28.000And that's a major part of the Maha movement.0.99
00:38:31.000It makes it easier to be healthy in America.0.95
00:38:33.000It's why moms are complaining today, and you, Don, you hear this all the time, that it's harder for them to raise healthy kids than it was for their moms to raise them.
00:39:02.000And that part, I actually believe we have it on America's radar screen, but they're still going to be people who need medications.
00:39:09.000And this is a topic that has been on your dad's radar for a long time.
00:39:14.000And I'll just put it out there right now.
00:39:15.000The argument he'll make in private is why are we paying three times more for the exact same drugs made in American factories oftentimes than the Europeans are paying for that?
00:39:24.000And so he tried to address this in the first term.
00:39:27.000It's one of the first things that I remember he brought a lot of us, Secretary Kennedy, me, and a bunch of the pharma guys together early on.
00:39:34.000And he said, you guys are going to have to fix this.
00:39:36.000No longer are we going to tolerate global freeloading.
00:40:03.000And I know in the first term, they sort of took care of it on insulin.
00:40:06.000But there's a lot of other things that people have to deal with there.
00:40:10.000Talk about a little bit of that because I know that's been a huge, huge push that, you know, and again, with our media, no one's going to give them credit when you guys get something done.
00:40:18.000You've learned this, you know, probably the hard way as well.
00:40:20.000You can do all sorts of great things, but if no one hears about it, they don't even know.
00:40:23.000They may not even know these things are available to them.
00:40:25.000Talk about that most favored nation because that is feeling, you know, it seems like that's trillions of dollars over, you know, a few years of savings to the American taxpayer that no one's even heard about yet.
00:40:35.000And it's a moral hazard when we can't afford our medications.
00:40:38.000Let me give you a stats going to blow your mind.
00:40:40.000One in three Americans, when they go to the pharmacy to pick up their medications prescribed by a doctor, leave empty handed because they can't afford the medication.
00:40:50.000And so in the Trump administration, there is a all of government approach to this.
00:40:54.000So working with commerce because overseas pricing matters here, working with health and human services, working with every facet of government.
00:41:03.000We have gone out and negotiated with the biggest drug companies out there and done something never imaginable.
00:41:09.000And it only happened, I'm confident, because the president was loud and clear.
00:41:15.000So either peacefully do the right thing.
00:41:18.000Be, you know, be, uh, fair in your pricing.
00:41:21.000And it's called MFN, most favored nation pricing, which means if you sell a drug for a price in you, in the, in Europe, you must sell it for that price or less in America.
00:42:56.000And did the deal as they should have done years ago.
00:42:59.000Why it took this many years to get a powerful enough person in office to be able to push this to the finish line is shocking, but at least it's happened.
00:43:07.000How do you lock that in in perpetuity, right?
00:43:10.000Because I could see, hey, we all understand how DC works, the special interests, the pharma lobbies, whatever it is.
00:43:16.000Trump leaves office and you get a Democrat.
00:43:18.000It's like, hey, we're going to make a big, sizable campaign contribution, but we want to be making trillions of dollars here on the back end again.
00:43:25.000Because that seems like, you know, that's a generational shift for the better for America.
00:43:30.000How do you make sure you codify that into law so that they can't just go back to their old ways the second they're like, you know, go back to someone who doesn't care, is in on the grift, whatever it may be?
00:43:40.000It is an existential fear that we should have that all this great progress will revert back to the way it was a year and a half ago if we don't continue to win these elections.
00:43:51.000I do not believe there's a way for these, these rules to stay in place unless either we codify them, which means we get Congress to ratify them to last beyond this president.
00:44:03.000Now, again, let's be very transparent.
00:44:05.000The president did what he promised to do and these deals are intact throughout his administration.
00:44:09.000What he's trying to do now is protect the future administrations so that these companies will not go back to business as usual.
00:44:17.000So either we're going to codify it through Congress or we're going to have to push the companies to make other deals to protect future administrations.
00:44:23.000But this is a generational opportunity for us to fix healthcare in America.
00:44:28.000It's one of the reasons that President Trump is so focused on this area.
00:44:44.000Let's make sure that most favorite nation Pricing of drugs that's fair for Americans is the rule of the land going forward.
00:44:51.000Let's make sure that we're smart about some of the other changes that have to happen within healthcare, like taking the fraud, waste and abuse out.
00:44:57.000Don, it's a hundred billion dollars a year we're spending a fraud.
00:45:01.000If I just put that numbers that you might make it more translatable, if you're worried about Medicare being there for you when you retire, which most young people are, we would double the life expectancy of the Medicare trust fund if we stopped defrauding Medicare.
00:45:15.000So we're, these are, So we have affordability toward most favor, most favor nation.
00:45:21.000We have affordability because we're driving, uh, fraud out of the system.
00:45:25.000We have affordability because we're making people healthier, which remember, 80% of the money we spend on healthcare is because of chronic illnesses that are caused by the lifestyle that we have allowed to be fomented by folks who profit off illness.
00:45:37.000And all of the friction in the system is profit.
00:45:40.000There's probably 150 million, 150 million people in America who make it a fortune because they have friction in the healthcare system and they take tolls every time they open up a, A little opportunity for you to get healthy again, they tax you.
00:46:48.000In preventing the fraud again, because that's all upside back to the balance sheet to keep this going, but also then to optimize outcomes later on.
00:46:55.000I mean, because you're right, the popular thing these days, AI doomsday scenario and everything, but it can actually be utilized to implement so much of what you're doing that an actuary, an accountant, a couple guys crunching numbers can't possibly deal with the sheer level and volume of data that's out there to be able to figure out where these things are, both from the bad on the fraud side and the good.
00:48:21.000And they are more than willing to weaponize that and take advantage of us.
00:48:25.000So they will, they will work with foreign governments.0.74
00:48:28.000Oftentimes they are foreign nationals.0.99
00:48:29.000They flee back to the native country.0.99
00:48:31.000So we're playing in a very different game.
00:48:33.000AI allows the healthcare system to get ahead of where the fraud is, to think about where they're going next and shut them down.
00:48:40.000The same way it prevents fraud in banking, it can prevent fraud in healthcare.
00:48:44.000But the bigger opportunity for us is not fraud, it's abuse and waste.
00:48:48.000If we can get to you and connect with you about things that are important to your well-being and nudge you to make wise decisions, you'll be healthier and it'll save us money.
00:49:29.000I've got to convince people who think they're immortal.
00:49:32.000They think they're Superman who are not getting advice from a doctor about their illness to actually participate.
00:49:38.000So for the first time ever, we are actually paying technology companies to develop apps to reach out to the American people and meet them where they are.
00:49:46.000So if you're worried about you know, some health problem.
00:49:49.000You don't have to guess or run away from a doctor.
00:49:52.000I'll come to you in the form of an app.
00:50:23.000Well, it fixes all the other problems in the system, right?
00:50:25.000If you prevent someone from ever actually getting sick, you're not spending hundreds of thousands of dollars per individual to keep them healthy.
00:50:33.000And this is going to blow your mind, but it's really critical and cool when you understand it.
00:50:37.000If we could get the average American to feel so healthy, so vibrant, so strong that they want to actually work one year longer, instead of retiring up to 35 years of service, they go 36 year, that is worth Wow.
00:50:52.000The productivity of the American people is so powerful that just one more year of work deals with a lot of our budget issues.
00:51:02.000So the real opportunity is what we unleash from getting people healthy, which is why allowing AI to meet you where you are.
00:52:40.000If I could give you that test and you would know that you're going to become a burden to your family in 10 years, would you change your life?
00:52:57.000The question is, are we willing to give this test now?
00:53:00.000And I'm a little nervous because until we are confident. that we have tools to dramatically change that natural history, we're going to scare a lot of people.
00:53:09.000We believe if we gave that test to all seniors, one in three would test positive.
00:53:14.000Now that's also possibly a good news item because if the lifestyle changes that we now believe to be effective, more effective than drugs even, based on a series of studies from top notch doctors around the country, if we can start to implement that into the programs we offer in Medicare, for example, and dramatically change that natural history, I mean, Imagine the productivity we would unleash, the valuable years of extra quality of life and the reduction of pain.
00:53:41.000That gives me goosebumps to think of that opportunity, but it only really becomes possible if we can meet you where you are and we need AI to do that, which is why right now we're in an existential problem.
00:53:54.000Everything they're hearing in the media scares them appropriately.
00:53:56.000We've got every day more bad news about how AI could destroy us, but the other side of that story, the power to do good isn't being And you can never get behind the eight ball on that.
00:54:14.000Once you lose that race, you get to a point you can never catch back up because it's just, it feeds off of itself.
00:54:19.000It is the biggest opportunity we have and it's the biggest risk we're facing.0.61
00:54:24.000And the administration is very aggressively trying to do that balancing act, but there needs to be an honorable discussion about this.
00:54:33.000And just because of who your dad is, I'm concerned people aren't willing to have it.
00:54:39.000Trump derangement syndrome will make you take a logical thing and make it not so logical.
00:54:42.000And blind us to real fears that all of us, red and blue, should be worried about.
00:54:47.000So if you're running Medicare, Medicaid right now, what is the most urgent part of those programs that needs that cleanup?0.53
00:54:57.000What can we implement right away to be able to, again, extend this out so those young people who are paying into these systems forever actually get that benefit from them?
00:55:06.000The biggest opportunity. in healthcare in America is to pay people because they provide value, not because they provide services.
00:55:14.000Historically, the best way for me to pay you is to say, Hey, Don, you're a heart surgeon.
00:55:21.000Now, if I did an inappropriate operation, I got paid too.
00:55:25.000If I had a bad outcome, I got paid too.
00:55:28.000The most expensive thing in healthcare is bad quality care because I pay someone who's not able to do a good job or did it inappropriately, unethically.
00:55:46.000It takes one fool to throw a coin in a well and 99 wise men to pull it back up again.0.80
00:55:51.000That's what we're dealing with in healthcare.0.89
00:55:53.000If we could shift everything to just paying for value.
00:55:57.000Only pay if you provide outcomes that are good for the American people, for you as an individual, it would dramatically change all the incentives.
00:56:04.000Maybe talk about that in sort of the form of also insurance, because there seems to be a serious malalignment of how these things work.
00:56:11.000I mean, I see the stories or I hear it from friends.
00:56:14.000You know, they go in, you know, I needed eight stitches.
00:56:38.000How have these sort of disincentives been created?
00:56:41.000Because ultimately, the insurance side is either paid for by the other people on those programs in the form of higher premiums or ultimately backstopped by the American taxpayer.
00:56:50.000How come you can't have most favorite nations in that aspect as well?
00:56:55.000Uh, because, you know, it seems like in this case, the hospitals are just taking advantage of people paying insurance because there's too many bureaucrats, too many middlemen throughout the process.
00:57:04.000Your dad, if you really want to get me started, ask you about transparency.
00:57:08.000Uh, we have a proposal to Congress, uh, that we believe is critically important to provide the transparency that we've been not talking about since your dad's first administration.
00:57:19.000And the reason it's important is what you just said.
00:57:21.000If you're going to go buy a car, And people don't tell you what it costs before you buy it.
00:57:27.000We remove the market forces of the purchaser.
00:57:33.000If you don't inform people about what the opportunities are, you disintermediate the market system from the healthcare system and people can charge whatever they want.
00:57:42.000And so if you provide transparency, if a hospital says this is what it costs to get stitches, it's $300 pay now and you get the stitches.
00:57:51.000But if you don't get told that number and they know they can balance bill you $15,000, And eventually put you in the poorhouse over this, even though they don't want to, they'll do it because everyone else is doing it.
00:58:01.000It corrupts the system, which is why we are demanding transparency and we will start finding hospitals starting now.
00:58:07.000Just this month, we have the rules in place to be able to go after hospitals who don't exchange information fairly and who don't actually provide transparency on these topics.
00:58:16.000And some of them are smaller hospitals.
00:58:17.000It's hard for them to provide transparency, but enough's enough.
00:58:20.000We as a nation have to be able to at least tell people what we're going to charge them for, like any other sector of the U.S. economy.
00:58:29.000I mean, like if you specifically had to pick out a middleman, a contractor, a billing shop, who are the people that are really gaming that system and turning that into an exorbitant profit center?
00:58:40.000Because how do you attack those individuals?
00:58:43.000Because I can't imagine, it's just not one place, right?
00:58:44.000It's got to be sort of along the chain.
00:58:47.000There are 15 middlemen, most of whom probably aren't adding all that much value, but everyone's getting paid.
00:58:52.000So, as you describe it, it sounds like a flaw in the system.
00:58:56.000But for people in the system, it's a massive feature, right?
00:58:59.000Anytime I create friction in a system like this, I, I make sure that there's profit that's extracted.
00:59:04.000So the folks who are involved in particular with, uh, the designing of hospital bills and the recollection of those expenses and, uh, the, the, the insurance companies pretending they're saving a lot of money when they're really not.
00:59:18.000Because they could have gotten it for a much better price, but they remember they get paid a percentage of the total amount of money that's charged.
00:59:24.000So, The higher the amount of money, the more percentage they get paid.
00:59:28.000Now, in fairness, across the system, if you don't police this, then people are going to take advantage of it.
00:59:35.000So, I have to actually come back to the government and to the role that we have played over the years and say, we have got to be serious with these folks.
00:59:41.000We're going to come after you, and your dad has charged us to do this, if you cheat the American people.
00:59:47.000If you treat them fairly, yeah, it's expensive.
00:59:49.000By the way, $300 is still a lot of money for a lot of people, right?
01:00:00.000How can one person get it for 300 and one person's getting it for $15,000?
01:00:03.000Like, there's no, there's no additional value.
01:00:06.000Uh, it was just like, eh, we can charge it, so we will.
01:00:08.000We're going to deliver a transparency platform, and this is again part of the larger build out of what we're doing within Medicare and Medicaid, and we want to be the leading payer.
01:00:15.000We want to be the gold standard, so you copy us.
01:00:18.000If you're not, you know, the U.S. government, and you don't want to copy us, uh, that's your problem, but ideally most people will say, well, you know, these guys figured it out.
01:00:26.000So we want, when you go to get an MRI scan for a knee injury, we want you to look on your app and see 12 different places around where you live that offer different prices for MRI scans, and hold people accountable For those prices.
01:00:39.000So if one place is $300 and one place is $3,000, which is, by the way, these are real prices, hopefully the American people will say, I'll go to the $300 place because obviously there's something about this.
01:00:48.000Now, there may be other reasons you want to go to the $3,000 place.
01:00:51.000You can pay more if you want because that's your, you can buy an expensive car, cheap car.
01:00:55.000But if the exact same car costs 10 times a month different, you'll probably buy the cheaper car.
01:00:59.000So you're obviously going to run into a lot of internal resistance, you know, whether it's the hospital or whether it's one of these middlemen.
01:01:05.000Do you have any internal resistance even from You know, sort of legacy government people who've just been like, well, we just don't want to actually have to do the work to actually fix these things.
01:01:56.000I came here to do the things we came to, we promised the American people we would do.
01:02:00.000And that gives us carte blanche to go out there and fight for the American people.
01:02:04.000I have been the subject of some massive lobbying campaigns and not once.
01:02:10.000Not once have I been told to stand down because of lobbyists.
01:02:15.000There are times when what we're trying to do might not be the right thing for the American people and takes us a while to figure out that there's a better way of doing it.
01:02:23.000But the fact that we can tell the entire organization, march forward in the battle.
01:02:28.000We have artillery behind us, air cover over us.
01:02:31.000Just do your jobs is, uh, is an effective and, and, and very motivating strategy.
01:02:36.000And, you know, I, I, I love telling our teammates, you know, we just released this week to, To a big town hall, our objectives and key results.
01:02:43.000When I go in there and I say, All I'm asking you to do is do your job.
01:02:48.000The reason you came here, the reason you're proud to be an American, the reason as a patriot you want to fix a system that's failing too many Americans is that we've not been free to do our jobs.
01:03:15.000I mean, obviously, we want to get people healthy.
01:03:16.000Hopefully, they're never dependent on prescriptions.
01:03:18.000But if you are going to be dependent on prescriptions, and a lot of people will, talk about that because it's one of these things that I was like, I saw it.
01:03:25.000I was like, that's the greatest win ever.
01:03:45.000And yet, you know, I don't know if that's the media.
01:03:48.000I don't know if it's just, you know, messaging.
01:03:50.000It feels like no one even knows about it.
01:03:52.000I mean, in going through, you know, various things, even for myself, it's like I go just out of curiosity.
01:03:56.000I got to see what, you know, I'm blessed to probably be able to pay for, you know, my drugs, whatever it is.
01:04:00.000It's like, oh my God, these are game changing things.
01:04:03.000And yet, again, maybe it gets lost in some of the chaos of the rest of the world, or maybe it's sort of one of these lies by omission that you have from the media where they're never going to give you credit for that.
01:04:12.000Can you talk about that program where people can find out about it, where people can compare?
01:04:16.000the stuff that they're buying, because it seems like a no-brainer for everyone to be looking at this stuff.
01:04:20.000One in three Americans know about TrumpRx.gov.
01:04:23.000I'm going to say it a dozen times so everyone thinks about it.
01:04:26.000But it is one of the most spectacular examples of government gone good.
01:04:31.000So let's just open the kimono here and describe what really happened.
01:04:35.000We got these great drug deals with most favorite nation drug pricing.
01:04:39.000MFN drug pricing allows now Americans to have access to prices that, to your point, a tenth of what they used to be just a few months ago.
01:04:47.000We have to put these prices somewhere so the American people had access to them.
01:04:51.000So think of TrumpRx.gov as a transparency site.
01:04:54.000No matter what you're out there doing and what you're thinking of buying, before you make a decision, you should go to TrumpRx.gov and just check out the site to make sure you're not getting ripped off or that maybe if there's a better price there, you might want to get it through the TrumpRx system.
01:06:07.000Because we're going to save money for the taxpayers within two years.
01:06:10.000Because if you're taking these medications and losing weight, and because you lose weight, you have less hypertension and less diabetes, and all the downstream problems that are caused by hypertension and diabetes, like strokes and heart attacks and kidney failure, we're going to save a lot of money.
01:06:25.000So, both because you're able to keep working and because you're not charging money to the healthcare system unnecessarily, we're saving America money.
01:06:32.000Yeah, so you may not always just get the benefit if you don't specifically ask or look about it, right?
01:07:39.000One of the big reasons that's given for why Americans are under-babied is they can't afford To make the baby, they're having fertility issues.0.73
01:07:46.000So, the major drug that's used is a drug called gonol F.
01:07:49.000And it comes with other drugs as well.
01:07:51.000That drug costs $3,000, $4,000 in America.
01:08:24.000And so I would think the IVF, drugs, and all of these things, if that's part of it, that's a huge deal.
01:08:31.000And it allows people to actually, many of whom, you probably know a lot of them because I know IVF was a huge part of your practice prior to you taking a government job and doing this.
01:08:41.000But people just couldn't afford to do it, even if they wanted to, even if they regretted perhaps waiting so long because of a career that ultimately their corporation then fired them or they went nowhere.
01:08:50.000And they're saying, wait, I just gave up my effectively fertile years to do this.
01:08:55.000We have the ability to extend that stuff.
01:08:57.000People can do these things, they just weren't always aware.
01:08:59.000And it's, it's the classically American thing is give everyone a fair chance.
01:09:04.000Get people in the playing field and let them do their best.
01:09:06.000But if you can't afford to get on the fail, the playing field, you can't afford the price of admission, then you get boxed out.
01:09:11.000And it's really a tragedy because a lot of people would love to have children.
01:09:16.000They'd be great parents, but you can't afford these massive numbers.
01:09:20.000And so by bringing down drug prices, which are an important part of fertility, uh, practices, you're now democratizing making babies.
01:10:08.000Like today, literally added more drugs before I came to sit down with you.
01:10:12.000And we're going to continue adding drugs.
01:10:14.000You've talked earlier about the message not getting out.
01:10:17.000One of the reasons I wanted to spend some time talking to you is because podcasts are an incredibly effective way to get people just to stop.
01:10:24.000Do the merry go round for a minute and just focus it on a few things that are life changing.
01:10:29.000What we are recognizing now in America is we could actually fix the problems we've all been lamenting.
01:10:37.000And I don't care where you are in the political spectrum.
01:10:39.000There have been some very brave decisions taken by this administration because there's a leader, your dad, who has over and over again said, I don't care.
01:11:13.000Your dad did and Congress did with the working families tax cut legislation.
01:11:16.000Uh, we have had huge impact on tax bills, which right now Americans are finally realized what a big gift this was to get them back on their feet again.
01:11:24.000But some of the challenges that were created in the past four years will take time to fix.
01:11:31.000There's a famous line that, um, Winston Churchill offered during the darkest days of the Battle of Britain in 1940 as the Second World War was progressing.
01:11:40.000So, when you're going through hell, it's no time to stop.
01:11:44.000We are moving forward in positive ways in so many of the existential challenges to our nation.
01:11:50.000Challenges that, as a people, we would be defined by.
01:11:54.000And when I go out and recruit people to enter government, which is the most important thing I do, Don, it's the, and I do think it's probably true for a lot of folks in the administration.
01:12:02.000You know, my job is to hire the smartest people I can find and make sure they don't kill each other.
01:12:07.000Literally, just get them in there and let them fix the problem.
01:12:10.000TrumpRx.gov is beautiful because Joe Jebia and Ed Corstein, these brilliant programmers and designers, Ed, you know, is a, is a brilliant 20 year old and, and Joe Jebia built, uh, uh, Airbnb.
01:12:23.000They don't, they're donating their time and their lives to fixing the, the, the front end of the U.S. government websites.
01:12:32.000But when they build a world class website like TrumpRx.gov, that's the fastest processor of any website I've ever seen in my life.
01:12:40.000That's a donation to the American people.
01:12:42.000When the prices that are put in there are negotiated by world class negotiators who are never in government normally.
01:12:49.000And in fact, if you talk to our counterparties in pharma, they want to hire these guys.
01:12:53.000They've never seen negotiators like these folks.
01:12:55.000When you have world class folks like David Sachs who's trying to get AI to be part of the next generation of American leaders, because that way we'll stay ahead of China.
01:13:04.000When we got things like Secretary Kennedy who are bravely taking on the food industrial complex, you don't get these folks in the room usually.
01:13:13.000Mike, I pray we continue this unique time in American history, a Camelot type experience for the next couple years so the president can finish his agenda.
01:13:23.000Because we will lead this country so much stronger if we can pull that off.
01:13:26.000I mean, I think that's such an important point.
01:13:27.000I mean, you know, people who are willing to step out of the private sector, good jobs, making a lot of money.
01:13:52.000I mean, you actually ran for Senate against, you know, John Fetterman before ever taking this job.
01:13:56.000Talk a little bit about that because A, I know from experience, it takes a lot of guts to get into that, especially in the worlds that you came from, certainly the world that my father came from in New York City as a real estate developer, you know, in the industry.
01:14:09.000Now, you know, whether, and this, what you're doing is really apolitical, but like, you're working for a guy that's a Republican.
01:16:39.000Well, it's guys like you that also opened the door for others who should be doing what you're doing instead of people who are just like, well, you're there.
01:16:57.000And what I tell every person that I'm trying to recruit.
01:16:59.000And right now, in case you're not clear, I'm trying to recruit you because if you're listening to this podcast, you could help.
01:17:04.000And I'll speak about this, you know, obviously from my health perspective, but it's true of any arm of government.
01:17:09.000If you do not come and join us now in this generational opportunity to change our country for the better, you will regret it for the rest of your life.
01:17:19.000If we succeed, you could have been part of history and you'll have missed out.
01:17:23.000You could have been in the room and you'll be watching from the sidelines.
01:17:26.000And if we fail, which we're not going to, but if we fail, you'll blame yourself for not helping.
01:17:32.000We don't have the luxury of being intellectuals.
01:17:35.000And as a surgeon, that's one of the Your fundamental insights you have in your time of need when the patient's bleeding out and you've got to make that stitch, you do not want to be surrounded by intellectuals.
01:17:47.000You're going to be surrounded by people of action who are willing to stake a position and move forward.
01:17:52.000And I think that's our greatest opportunity.
01:18:09.000You know, with all of the things that you're talking about, you know, on your plate, dealing with the fraud, dealing with the upside, you know, I'd love you to touch a little bit on sort of the overall aspects of Maha as well.
01:18:20.000But, but what is between Maha and, and generally, you know, what does victory look like?
01:18:25.000You get another, you know, two and a half years.
01:18:28.000What does victory look like when you come out of this thing?
01:18:30.000Uh, what do you want to have accomplished?
01:18:33.000Victory for me is having a relationship with 170 million people.
01:19:02.000You want to disclose your medical records because they're yours and you own them.
01:19:05.000We'll take them and help you identify what's important and all the risk factors you ought to be worried about.
01:19:09.000And we'll help you find the right doctor and make the right treatments available and make sure you can afford all these care opportunities.
01:19:16.000If you want to stay more private, that's fine too.
01:19:17.000Wherever you are, I just want to be able to make sure you know that we're here to help without weaponizing a surveillance system that could control your life.
01:19:27.000That is a balancing act that we have to respect, it is hard to do.
01:19:31.000Yeah, that's a big fear on our side of the aisle, right?
01:19:35.000It seems like everything was always weaponized against conservatives, whether it was media, whether it was search engines, whether it was shadow banning.
01:19:44.000There's a lot of, and rightfully so, skepticism on our side.
01:19:47.000And yet, with the advent of these technologies, When your health is on the line, there has to be a fine balance of having some trust that maybe you can get some more information that you wouldn't otherwise have.
01:19:59.000You're going to want to have your own AI to protect you.
01:20:02.000This is going to happen whether you wanted to or not.
01:20:33.000But there's things that I do believe we're going to have to accept are coming down the pike at us.
01:20:39.000And it's not whether you want it to happen, but how you're going to protect yourself when it does happen.
01:20:43.000And there's too many opportunities for us to help, especially folks who've fallen or having trouble getting up, folks with substance use disorder, a lot of folks who are vulnerable or having issues with mental health concerns.
01:20:52.000I mean, if I'm trying to deliver mental health services in rural America.
01:20:56.000And one of the greatest gifts that your dad and, um, and Congress has given to the American people is the Rural Health Transformation Fund.
01:21:53.000And yet, in the prior administration, it feels like the whistleblowers were the people that were penalized, uh, you know, and held accountable for doing the right thing.
01:22:01.000Not, not the people committing the fraud.
01:22:03.000I mean, can we make people comfortable that, hey, if you're seeing something that's bad going on, point it out that there's good, people are going to be receptive to that.
01:22:13.000Listen, the, uh, the, the arc of history bends towards truth.
01:22:18.000Eventually, those whistleblowers do get heard.
01:22:20.000I mean, our biggest allies in Minnesota taking on the fraud, especially from the Somalians, but others as well, including folks serving in Minnesota, uh, were the whistleblowers who were ostracized, driven out of government, penalized by being moved to obscure areas in the administration.
01:22:35.000And, uh, now when they have a chance, they're very clear about what went wrong.
01:22:39.000So, uh, it does take brave people, but that's what it's always taken.
01:22:43.000You know, you don't change society with, with committees and You know, and, you know, these folks are talking to each other at the faculty lounge with their tweed jackets as they smoke a pipe.
01:22:54.000Society changes because a few powerful, passionate people don't take no for an answer and just keep pushing until they get heard.
01:23:03.000And I have confidence that's what's going to happen in America.
01:23:06.000That's why I trust elections when they're done right.
01:23:09.000If we are able to actually clean up some of the fraud that's out there and allow the American people to speak, they will make the right decision.
01:23:15.000They made the right decision in 2024, despite an overwhelming avalanche of media.
01:23:22.000That was against us because they saw through it.
01:23:25.000And I think they'll make the right decision in 26 and 28.
01:23:28.000And until the Democratic Party course corrects, and I think they will, there's plenty of Democrats now who are quite loudly saying we've lost our way.
01:23:35.000I mean, when we have, I just read this morning, it's frustrating, you know, nuns providing care to terminal patients being criticized by the state of New York because they're not willing to offer DEI and transgender concepts.
01:24:31.000By Oliver, I'll just go ahead and tell you, because this is, you know, I think you'll treat this with, you know, the sensitivity that you should.0.64
01:24:39.000Oliver was in medical school taught how to separate kids From their parents, so he could ask them about gender issues.
01:24:49.000And Oliver said, I am not going to do that.
01:24:53.000If the parents have an issue, they will come and ask our advice.
01:24:57.000But I'm not going to get between a parent and their child and introduce complicated concepts that are going to be very difficult for the family to address later on.
01:26:17.000We wrote a rule saying you may not use federal tax dollars in Medicaid to pay for gender rejecting procedures.0.99
01:26:23.000That, that, that rule, which was a, you know, we caught hell for it, but it's the right thing to do.
01:26:27.000And then we went out, and this is really important.
01:26:29.000We went to the major medical societies and to the medical schools, and we made it very clear what we expect them to do and what the data was, uh, out there needed to be respected.
01:27:35.000Once we come to their help, once we come in and say, you know what, you're allowed to say what you believe, you may no longer be intimidated, they change.
01:27:42.000So the plastic surgeons went first, then the American Medical Association, God bless them, Say, you know what?
01:27:55.000You know, from even the COVID era, where if you said, hey, maybe the Wuhan virus started in a lab that studies the exact virus in question at the place that was ground zero, like, you couldn't say that.
01:28:22.000And the ability for us to give voice to the many people who have common sense and actually happen to be world experts as well, like the plastic surgeons, to say what they believe is true.
01:28:33.000And then turns out that the American Medical Association is comfortable supporting their brethren who are actually experts in this area.
01:28:39.000You start to see the dominoes start to come back to us.
01:28:42.000And that's why having brave people like your dad lead a government who don't care about getting canceled because you can't recancel somebody, don't care about the media not honoring what they're saying or covering what they're saying because they know the American people are curious.
01:28:55.000And that's why podcasts like this matter a lot because what folks have heard today, I'm hoping they will share at the water cooler, at a cocktail party.
01:29:03.000Just find an excuse to put this stuff on the agenda because it's only through podcasts like this that the American people get a version of reality that happens to be aligned with the truth.
01:29:29.000And that starts obviously with your health.
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