00:09:56.000Hey guys, welcome to a special Wednesday episode of Triggered.
00:09:58.000And tonight we're going to be doing one show about one thing because it matters.
00:10:04.000And I got to see this up close and personal in court this week.
00:10:10.000I spent Monday and Tuesday in a courtroom in Provo, Utah, two days of testimony.
00:10:16.000I watched every minute of it from the front row.
00:10:18.000And I want to walk you through what I saw in that room because what the state is building and what the defense is trying to hide from you tells you really everything.
00:11:05.000So, you know, let's get this message out.
00:11:07.000So, you know, share this so the facts actually get out.
00:11:10.000There's been obviously a lot of noise, and some people are very convinced of some stuff that, you know, I didn't see.
00:11:15.000I wanted to see what was actually put out there because I think it's important to separate the noise at this point.
00:11:22.000Guys, remember if you miss the show here on Rumble, catch us on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts for all the headlines we cover.
00:11:28.000Go check out my news app, MXM News, where you can get the mainstream news without the mainstream bias because getting to the truth actually matters.
00:11:38.000And with that, I guess, you know, let's just get right into it.
00:12:02.000If he does decide that, you get a trial with a jury where the state can then present even more evidence than what you're seeing and what we saw this week.
00:12:12.000So, in this opening chapter, I'm telling you, you know, again, having sat through two days of it, the evidence to me seems even more overwhelming against Tyler Robinson than I ever actually would have thought.
00:15:30.000But by the end of the week, the state plans to call four witnesses and admit 40 to 50 exhibits.
00:15:35.000Day one, Monday, I'm sitting there as the state calls its first two witnesses Officer Chris Bagley, a former UVU, which is Utah Valley University police officer who was on campus the day Charlie was assassinated, and Agent David Hull, a former State Bureau of Investigation agent.
00:15:53.000Agent Hull walked through the surveillance picture.
00:15:57.000Robinson appears on UVO security footage four separate times on September 10th before, during, and after the shooting.
00:16:06.000He was not a student at the university, another point that a lot of people have not been making.
00:16:15.000And Hull confirmed what the medical examiner found.
00:16:18.000Charlie's cause of death was a homicide, a gunshot wound to the neck.
00:16:22.000Then, Officer Bagley, the one who climbed up onto the rooftop where they believe the shooting took place immediately after the roof that the shot essentially came from, it was accessible.
00:16:38.000You just walk up there, and on that roof, he found a red and black screwdriver and a disturbance in the gravel, markings consistent with someone who was lying in a prone position, how you would most accurately generally shoot a rifle if you were doing something like that, with a direct line of sight to where Charlie was speaking.
00:16:55.000And then the state played the video of the moment Charlie was shot.
00:17:09.000They made sure people covered up their screens so it couldn't get out there.
00:17:14.000So, you know, can't describe it fully, but I did get to watch Judge Graff, a judge who does this for a living, literally visibly shaken by how violent it was.
00:17:24.000And that probably tells you everything.
00:18:05.000And then they spent a big chunk of the day arguing to hide Charlie's Christian faith from the record.
00:18:11.000Okay, if this is obviously a crime associated with faith, you know, I guess.
00:18:16.000Sort of makes it like a hate crime that really helps keep death penalty on the table, which is very clearly what this is, especially when you talk about Tyler Robinson's proclivity towards transgenders and all of the things that Charlie said about his religious beliefs on those issues.
00:18:32.000When the state finally got back to the floor, Agent Hall walked the court through a never-before-seen video compilation.
00:18:40.000Security footage stitched together showing Robinson's movement across that campus before, during, and after the assassination.
00:18:47.000His vehicle, Very distinctly, and being able to identify plates and very distinct hubcaps, his vehicle arriving in the morning, him moving on and off campus all day, stopping to buy Chick fil A about two hours before the shooting.
00:18:59.000Two hours before, I mean, calm enough to grab lunch.
00:19:03.000And then the roof of the Losey Center, fleeing across it, jumping down, leaving the campus on foot with something that resembled, according to the witness, a wrapped up rifle in his hands.
00:19:17.000On his way up before the shooting, Robinson was walking with a limp.
00:19:22.000This is when he magically put on long pants instead of the shorts that he was wearing earlier in the day.
00:19:26.000The state says that the limp is consistent with a rifle concealed in his pants.
00:19:48.000Sort of odd, though, that he would return at 12 30 at night.
00:19:53.000Near the woods that he fled into with said, you know, rifle looking satchel earlier in the day.
00:20:01.000Now, the state also introduced a letter from Pastor David Englehart, a TPUSA board member, because the state is arguing Charlie was targeted for exactly who he was, exactly who everyone knew Charlie to be, and his Christian beliefs, and what he represented.
00:20:19.000And again, that matters legally, because if the state can show Robinson targeted Charlie over his beliefs, It supports the victim targeting enhancement, and that keeps the death penalty on the table.
00:20:31.000The defense fought that tooth and nail.
00:20:34.000Again, Judge Graff admitted the testimony provisionally.
00:20:42.000FBI analyst Amanda Begger took the stand, and I listened to her lay it out.
00:20:47.000Robinson's DNA on the screwdriver recovered from that roof and on the towel wrapped around the rifle recovered in the woods near campus.
00:20:57.000And a second person's DNA on that towel, Lance Twiggs.
00:21:02.000Okay, that was Robinson's roommate and romantic partner, the one that was, I guess, transgender, who is believed to be cooperating with the prosecution.
00:22:53.000Did he remain in Washington County Sheriff's Office or was he taken somewhere else?
00:22:58.000No, he was transported from there to the Utah County Jail.
00:23:03.000Prior to being transported to the Utah County Jail, was any, I guess, personal property taken from him, clothing, anything like that?
00:23:13.000The only thing that was, so prior to our arriving to the St. George, to the Washington County Sheriff's Office, his cell phone was seized and taken from his person, but that was the only thing that was taken from him at that time.
00:23:27.000After he was transported to Utah County Jail, were any personal items taken from him?
00:23:38.000After a search warrant was granted, his clothing was recovered, along with buckle swabs to collect his DNA and major case prints, which is fingerprints, palm prints, pretty much the entire hand.
00:24:09.000They can argue for hours about a letter, but they can't erase who Charlie was.
00:24:16.000And they can't hide what he believed because he spent his, literally his whole life, saying it out loud on campuses, exactly like that one.
00:24:26.000Ask me how I know because I've done about 100 of them with Charlie.
00:24:29.000And with that, guys, joining me now, Jack Basobic and Graham Allen.
00:24:34.000They've been in Provo in that courtroom covering this hearing from the very first gavel.
00:24:39.000They were there today when I wasn't able to be.
00:24:41.000So, Guys, thank you so much for taking the time.
00:26:35.000Now, we didn't get to hear that interview, but we were told that we were going to hear the interview not of Tyler Robinson today, but actually an interview with Lance Twiggs.
00:26:46.000This is the trans boyfriend who held the interview with state and federal law enforcement at a different police department, St. George Police Department nearby.
00:27:01.000Now, here's what happened in court today that video didn't come out.
00:27:07.000Then they said, Well, what if we can just play the audio?
00:27:10.000Then there was an argument that the audio should be redacted.
00:27:13.000Then they went back and forth about the redactions for so long today that not a single instant of that has come out yet at all.
00:27:24.000And I just have to say, as somebody who wants transparency, I think this was a huge blow for transparency.
00:27:30.000I'm livid about this that we didn't get this evidence that they've had for 10 months that the defense knows is out there, that they know that this was the boyfriend who had direct.
00:27:42.000Information that's obviously relevant to what happened with his boyfriend and what his boyfriend said to him, and they're not letting us see it.
00:27:51.000Yeah, that's a big deal because, you know, again, you know, I know you and I for, you know, believing that, you know, the entire state of Utah, the people involved, you know, believe it to be Tyler Robinson, you know, there's those that don't.
00:28:11.000Like, I spent a lot of time, as you have, you know, Talking with Charlie, talking on stage with Charlie.
00:28:15.000I mean, the transgender issue was something that Charlie, you know, hit hard and often.
00:28:21.000I mean, him and I were talking about these things publicly back in like 17 before it was a thing, you know, the men playing in women's sports and this kind of, I mean, you know, the fact that the, you know, alleged shooter is obviously, you know, quite trans sympathetic.
00:28:35.000His boyfriend was trans or what, girlfriend, I don't, you know, who knows, you know, what it actually is.
00:28:43.000Yeah, I don't want to misgender someone.
00:28:44.000So, but, More importantly, understanding the general violence that has come from the radicalized people within that movement, the number of mass shootings.
00:28:54.000Frankly, it was what Charlie was literally talking about seconds before he was killed.
00:29:00.000Literally being one of the maybe the most violent group in America.
00:29:04.000I guess maybe he was going to try to make a distinction for gang violence if I remember the conversation that he was having, literally seconds before he was killed.
00:29:54.000No, I mean, there was a trans shooting at a Catholic school in Minneapolis just two weeks prior to this taking place.
00:30:03.000So, I mean, it was something that was very much in the news.
00:30:07.000It was a trend that we had been seeing throughout 2025.
00:30:09.000And unfortunately, it has continued into 2026, where we see school shootings by members of the trans community.
00:30:18.000Now, in this case, he wasn't trans himself, but the boyfriend was.
00:30:23.000And so we were going to hear from the trans boyfriend on tape talking about, presumably, his gender identification, these issues, all of these things that obviously Charlie had been talking about for years.
00:30:37.000And we saw yesterday that the defense, this was the same lawyer, by the way, this Mr. Novak, fought tooth and nail to prevent any of those issues from being brought up.
00:30:50.000Well, they wanted to make it clear that it wasn't about religion because I think.
00:30:54.000Well, but they also wanted to separate out religion because then it sort of adds that, you know, let's call it, you know, think of it like a hate crime statute.
00:31:02.000But like Charlie's politics and his religion were so intertwined, they're one and the same.
00:31:06.000I mean, you can be, you know, against some of the trans insanity politically and also be against it based on his very serious Christian faith.
00:31:17.000And he said both of those things very often.
00:31:25.000And even if you didn't have to know Charlie to know that that's where he got his position when it comes to traditional gender roles and marriage and all these things, you could just watch him for five minutes and say, oh, yeah, this guy probably follows the Bible because he literally talked about it every time he went to speak anywhere in the world.
00:31:46.000And so the idea that you could separate, we're not talking about having to have an argument over, you know, which religion is real or, you know, church and state or all these things.
00:31:55.000It's a question of, What did Charlie believe?
00:31:59.000And then what was the motive of the shooter?
00:32:02.000But it's very clear that the defense is doing everything they can to separate all of that out, to get that out of the public discussion, to get that out of the courtroom, because they know how central it is to the case and how devastating it's going to be when it does eventually make its way in.
00:32:21.000They are erecting roadblock after roadblock.
00:32:24.000And it's very frustrating to sit there and know.
00:32:27.000That there's only two days left, and there's so many key pieces of evidence that they're just not allowing to be heard in court.
00:33:18.000And yet all of that comes to a head in a room that is actually quite small.
00:33:23.000I counted today there's six rows or pews.
00:33:26.000It's kind of like church pews almost where you're sitting in with the gallery.
00:33:31.000And so you've got obviously, you and I were there, and then Charlie's family's right there, his mom and dad, his wife.
00:33:38.000And then there's one more row, and then Tyler Robinson's family is right there.
00:33:43.000And right across the bar is like a couple tables.
00:33:46.000And then there's Tyler Robinson, just a few feet away.
00:33:49.000And all along, I mean, security obviously everywhere from Secret Service to local sheriffs and SWAT team just lining the walls on the left and right, sheriffs up in the front.
00:34:02.000So, I mean, it was very highly secured, a lot of tension.
00:34:06.000But then also, you know, that's why I think that these.
00:34:10.000When we get to these filibuster tactics and we get to these, oh, I object, I object to every little thing, it's like, it's so frustrating and upsetting because we just want to hear the case.
00:34:39.000And I remember when you looked over at me and be like, Tyler Robinson, he's laughing right now.
00:34:45.000That's not something that someone who's falsely accused of something does, is it?
00:34:52.000Even months later, you don't sit there, you know, sort of laughing with your lawyer about it.
00:34:57.000I mean, you know, again, barring the other details of him turning himself in and, you know, the rifle being in the family and all that, we can get into the rifle because I know one of the things I take a lot of heat on right now is like, you know, could a 30-odd six do that?
00:35:09.000So, you know, we can address this, you know, we can address this next because, you know, there are those that are.
00:35:16.000You know, pushing a lot of things that, again, I've listened to all of it over the last few months.
00:35:20.000I haven't chimed in because I don't, frankly, know what was real, what was conjecture, you know, what was actual evidence.
00:35:27.000Most of the stuff we saw in the room over the last few days was all new, things I had never seen before.
00:35:33.000You know, I don't know about yourself, but, you know, what were your thoughts on some of that?
00:35:38.000Well, I mean, I do think that, well, first of all, you know, I remember watching the Kyle Rittenhouse case, and I don't remember Kyle Rittenhouse laughing when he was on the stand.
00:35:56.000I'm never going to forget the moment that I saw Tyler Robinson laughing in front of Charlie Kirk's crying widow and Charlie Kirk's crying mother.
00:36:06.000And also the fact that Tyler, even again today, has yet to turn around and not only not acknowledge Charlie's family, he hasn't even acknowledged his own mother and father who have been there every day in the courtroom.
00:36:20.000You know, I've seen other cases or I've watched other cases where the defendant will turn and, you know, maybe have a gesture to the family or some kind of acknowledgement that they're there for him.
00:36:54.000And so I just don't quite get how you can't acknowledge your own mother.
00:36:58.000And then, so you mentioned about the evidence.
00:37:00.000You know, a lot of this, you know, we've been sort of going back and forth, and you get a report here, you get a report there, but I've never seen it just laid out in such a methodical way, which, of course, the prosecution is trying to do.
00:37:15.000The defense tries to stop it as much as possible because, you know, they start with the officer who was on the scene.
00:37:21.000Then they go and he says, you know, I heard the shot.
00:37:24.000Then he talks about how he was, you know, kind of going around trying to see what he could render aid to students, see if they could arrest somebody.
00:37:47.000And by the way, the footage, you could speak to this too, because you were there.
00:37:51.000That the footage that we saw in court was so much better quality than the footage that you can see on air right now, that it just hasn't been released yet.
00:38:07.000And so, you know, like I said, I've taken heat, frankly, for just being quiet and wanting to see what actually is real and what's not.
00:38:14.000You know, and again, I understand people, you're being skeptical of a lot these days.
00:38:17.000I think, you know, man, you're in the same boat as me on that.
00:38:20.000But again, in seeing it with my own eyes, in seeing it face to face, in watching them lay this out, to me, it became a lot more cut and dry.
00:38:28.000But let's talk for a second about the case the state is building, right?
00:38:31.000You got the surveillance, the rooftop, the DNA.
00:38:36.000What should Americans understand about the evidence?
00:38:40.000Again, that maybe isn't getting through.
00:38:41.000I mean, you obviously just mentioned sort of the graininess of what we've seen on television versus what we saw in the courtroom definitely paints a slightly different picture, the courtroom being much more clear and much more evident of what it is.
00:38:56.000But for me, it was also a lot of the detail that they went, How do you know it's him?
00:39:03.000Here's the hubcaps on the car were very distinct, so we could tell.
00:39:05.000Then we have partial plates that match.
00:39:08.000Uh, you know, the credit cards or whatever it was at you know, Chick fil A, uh, you know, very different than a lot of the things I've been hearing over the last 10 months.
00:39:19.000Yeah, I mean, it in, in for lack of a better term, it sounds like a murder case, it sounds like the traditional textbook homicide case where you've got lots of pieces of physical evidence, forensic evidence, as well as documentary evidence and electronic evidence.
00:39:38.000I'm sure, by the way, you know, we may not have gotten there yet, but for example, you mentioned the car.
00:39:43.000If that car's got a navigation system in it, right?
00:39:45.000If it's got, you know, a GPS or something, well, guess what?
00:39:48.000They're going to be able to track the car and go exactly where that was.
00:39:51.000And then they can pair that up with the cell phone and see what the cell phone was doing and where the cell phone was.
00:39:56.000They can even check on FBI as a way to check the elevation of the cell phone.
00:40:00.000So they could be able to tell, was he going up the staircase?
00:40:03.000If he had the cell phone on him, was it going up and down?
00:40:05.000So, I mean, the level of fidelity on this evidence that they have is really very strong.
00:40:11.000And There's so much more yet to come out that, again, because of these delay tactics, which I'm very frustrated about because I want the transparency.
00:40:20.000But one thing that we haven't, they've mentioned this and it's come up a few times.
00:40:25.000We haven't seen direct testimony from them yet.
00:40:28.000But one of the pieces that I just keep coming back to is the fact that, and we got more information on the details of it today, that his mom and dad turned him in.
00:40:55.000I mean, like, that's why I said going into this, you know, it was two families ultimately really destroyed by this.
00:41:01.000Obviously, you know, I think Charlie's white and the influence that he had with so many people and the lives that he changed, you know, it's a lot more than just his family, but all the people that followed him so well are affected by, you know, but two families just totally ruined and destroyed, you know, with this sick action.
00:41:21.000But, Jack, was there a moment across these days that, you know, perhaps hit you harder than others, that hit you hardest?
00:41:28.000Or one where perhaps you felt the whole room, the dynamic of the room change a little bit.
00:41:33.000I mean, I guess there's two, if I had to say.
00:41:39.000First one was just when we walked in on that first day and we kind of hustled in almost.
00:42:10.000And that for me was definitely an emotional moment.
00:42:14.000And I think another one as well, and I thought about this, was that moment where it was Agent Hull and where he made the identification.
00:42:22.000You remember that moment where he said, That is the individual.
00:42:27.000He's seated right between the two lawyers.
00:42:29.000He described, he's wearing a light suit with a dark tie.
00:42:33.000I mean, I wasn't expecting that moment to affect me as much as it did, but it really did because now we've taken all of this evidence and they're still building more, but you're taking all of this together and you've got in a courtroom, you know, the state agent pointing directly at the individual who's seated right there with all of the families present saying, This is the guy I'm identifying right now.
00:42:59.000And you could see the entire room, there's that shockwave of emotion.
00:43:02.000I looked over, there were, you know, people obviously in tears at that, people holding hands.
00:43:13.000And I don't even know if it plays on TV, you know, if the clip, it just doesn't quite have that same emotional weight that I think we felt when we were there.
00:43:22.000It's sort of like the photo, actually, when they had the daylight photo of, you know, the knee and elbow marks where he was lying prone on the roof.
00:43:30.000But then because the sun was beating down, you sort of lose all the shadows and you can't really see the indentation.
00:43:35.000So they have the same crime scene preserved, taken at night with light sort of this way.
00:43:41.000Like it's so much more apparent that, you know, someone was there.
00:43:44.000You could see how the knees were positioned, how the elbows were positioned.
00:43:49.000You know, it made it, you know, so much more clear to me.
00:43:55.000I remember that because the first picture, it just, you know, kind of looked like some gravel on the wall.
00:43:59.000Yeah, you can see a little bit of movement, but not as much as you see it highlighted so much later.
00:44:03.000Yeah, actually, in the first one, I actually kind of thought it was like footsteps at first.
00:44:08.000I thought it was just like a series of footsteps because I couldn't quite see the distance as well in that shot.
00:44:15.000And then in the second picture, when they switched it and they used the lighting to really highlight what those markings were, I mean, it looked like a cypress nest.
00:44:25.000That's exactly what it looked like from what I saw in the military, what I remember from firing in the prone position.
00:44:54.000There's been a lot of evidence that's been thrown out there that's not actual evidence, but a lot of that noise that's been out there in every way, shape, and form.
00:45:02.000I mean, isn't transparency what we actually need?
00:45:07.000You've now seen more of it than I have.
00:45:10.000What are they actually trying to do here?
00:45:13.000Well, to be fair, we actually didn't get a lot today.
00:45:16.000We pretty much just got that one picture.
00:45:18.000So, I mean, you're not missing much today because of the way the day went.
00:45:22.000And honestly, I'm a little hot about that.
00:45:27.000And the idea that if they're worried about, and the judge did rule on this initially, so I'll give him credit for that.
00:45:36.000The idea being that is if you're worried about misinformation or you're worried about people taking something out of context or you're worried about being misquoted or something, well, guess what?
00:45:46.000The best sunlight for that is transparency, literally.
00:45:50.000So I remember, for example, I saw online, I guess at one point, I haven't been online as much as I usually am.
00:45:58.000And I saw that someone was saying that you remember when they were talking about the DNA mixture on the items?
00:46:07.000And they were saying that one was the majority contributor, one was the minority contributor.
00:46:11.000Well, I saw some people online saying that maybe there was a, you know, I don't know where it started, but maybe somebody got it wrong.
00:46:16.000And they said that Lance Twiggs was the one who had 89 to 95%, you know, DNA match on those items.
00:46:24.000And I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's exactly, you know, I pulled up my notes just to double check, but I said, wait a minute, that's the opposite of what was said in court.
00:46:32.000Was that the 89 to 95% on the towel and screwdriver was Tyler Robinson.
00:46:38.000And Lance Twiggs was also a small partial contribution.
00:46:43.000But that's something where initially, right after I said that, I could have my guys go and we pulled that very specific clip right up from the testimony to be able to have the agent there.
00:46:54.000She's from the FBI lab in Quantico saying specifically that.
00:46:57.000So if you didn't have the video or if that hadn't been shown to the wider public, guess what?
00:47:04.000People could just say whatever they want.
00:47:06.000And then you won't have something to be able to go back to to correct the record.
00:47:12.000Like so many other things have had to be corrected already in this case.
00:47:16.000And so that's why I think that fighting for transparency is huge.
00:47:19.000There was one moment, I believe it was the first moment in the case thus far today, where, and in the hearing, where the Kirk family's representative, Jeff Neiman, actually got up and addressed the court.
00:47:33.000And it was on that very topic of the Lance Twiggs video, saying that we, you know, I'll just read from it, the Kirk family.
00:47:48.000And the family wants full transparency for the world.
00:47:52.000And look, if you are someone who is skeptical or someone who has questions, and to your point, we've been lied to by so many federal agencies and Dr. Fauci and all the rest for so many years that I get why people would have questions.
00:48:07.000This is why you want those videos out and you want the full video out to see not what the government is saying.
00:48:14.000But what the people who were closest to Tyler Robinson are saying.
00:48:19.000Yeah, I think that's a huge distinction, right?
00:48:37.000That to me was also very jarring because I think I tend to look at things with a skeptical eye with this one because there was so much information out there that, again, when I say information, I mean just.
00:48:49.000Some of it may have been real, some of it not even close.
00:48:53.000A lot of the theories, you know, have clearly been debunked even prior to this thing.
00:48:58.000And I've taken a lot of heat for not jumping onto every conspiracy that's out there.
00:49:02.000I just, you know, again, I think I owe it to Charlie to actually, you know, really want to believe what happened.
00:49:08.000And this has done a lot to strengthen my confidence, you know, towards that end.
00:49:14.000You know, and again, the thing the defense is fighting hardest to keep out of that courtroom is obviously, you know, Charlie's Christian faith.
00:49:19.000You know, their priority is, you know, burying what he believed and, frankly, what everyone believed.
00:49:29.000Not just perhaps about this defense, but about the machine behind it that spent years basically painting Charlie as a monster for saying what he believed out loud.
00:49:40.000And perhaps more importantly, not just saying what he believed out loud, but literally opening up his microphone to his biggest detractors almost on a daily basis.
00:49:51.000Well, look, I mean, it speaks to everything that Turning Point USA.
00:49:58.000Was designed and created to fight against it, speaks to the problems that we have in our country where we've gotten to a place now where, okay, what is the modern public square if not a college campus, right?
00:50:14.000Going to a college campus to debate ideas.
00:50:16.000And that's literally what Charlie said come debate me.
00:50:19.000Like, if you believe that I'm wrong or you believe that I'm incorrect, prove me wrong.
00:50:25.000You know, come on out here, let's have a discussion.
00:50:33.000He brought two microphones, one for himself and one for anyone who wanted to come up.
00:50:38.000And Charlie's rule, and we continue this, by the way, when we go out to campus, it's always been if you disagree, you get to come to the very front of the line.
00:50:47.000And so we've, but I think it started honestly, and I know that, you know, this is something obviously you're huge on.
00:51:28.000So they lost the argument on college campuses.
00:51:31.000They lost the political power because.
00:51:34.000Then along comes Donald J. Trump and wins the popular vote seven out of seven of the swing states.
00:51:40.000And you've got Charlie Kirk there and Turning Point USA picking up so much of the influence and going after those low prop voters, the young voters.
00:51:50.000And so you think, okay, I can't get rid of this guy on campus.
00:51:54.000I can't get rid of this guy politically.
00:51:57.000Then there's only one thing left to do.
00:51:59.000And if that's your mindset, that people need to be stopped from saying and thinking the things that they are saying, then If you become so twisted enough and so crazy enough, you might think that I've got to find other means to stop this person's speech.
00:52:16.000And that was, frankly, very evident based on the response from so many of the radical leftists in the minutes and days after Charlie's murder, the celebrating it, because it wasn't that he was this violent guy, it was that he was effective at dismantling the BS that they stake their entire existence on.
00:52:42.000They couldn't defeat him in debate, so they tried to silence him with a bullet.
00:52:47.000And Charlie was always open to all comers.
00:52:51.000He was always open to travel literally everywhere in the world and to just spread his beliefs about living conservative values, living Christian values.
00:53:03.000And obviously, this is why he was targeted.
00:53:08.000But of course, because that does make it an enhancement under Utah law, that's why the defense is trying so hard to get us from talking about anything to do with Charlie's actual beliefs.
00:53:22.000It's not that they're irrelevant to the case.
00:53:24.000They are the central part of the case.
00:54:02.000But under Utah law, aggravated murder, if you want to get to that highest level, when I say you want to get, when I say for prosecutors to be able to bring on that highest level of punishment, that highest level of murder, it requires these things called enhancements.
00:54:17.000And one of those enhancements is, which I believe they demonstrated quite clearly, is if it's done in the presence of minor children.
00:54:27.000And there was a video that was played, and you could see this.
00:54:29.000And I actually, I should have mentioned that that video was extremely emotional when they played that in the crowd because there's two little kids.
00:54:37.000There were two little kids in the prime of their life, just one, and their mother, you know, beautiful mom, just wanted to take them to go see Charlie Kirk speak.
00:54:45.000And then they've had their childhood now completely ripped away from them because of what they saw before their eyes just moments later.
00:54:53.000So I actually think it's really, I could go on that for hours, but I think it's really, really important.
00:54:59.000That is another one of the enhancements, and that's protected in law.
00:55:02.000You destroyed their childhood, and you have to pay for that.
00:55:06.000Number two, though, is this victim targeting enhancement, and this is politics or religion.
00:55:12.000And if the choice of the victim, so premeditated murder, but if it's done for politics or religion, that's another enhancement that brings it up to the highest level of capital offense.
00:55:25.000So aggravated murder with enhancements, that's what brings the death penalty into play.
00:55:33.000You know, not revealing anything that, you know, that I overheard specifically, but being in the courthouse, it's very, very clear that the DA's office here is going for the death penalty.
00:55:52.000And there are times where, as, you know, as a commentator and also as, you know, just a friend of the family, that I want them to be going.
00:56:05.000And doing more and wanting them, you know, maybe play for the cameras more.
00:56:08.000But there are times where their goal at the end of this is to get that conviction and to get that sentence.
00:56:17.000And so they have to play a very, very tight game to be able to get there.
00:56:22.000And this, of course, the defense knows as well.
00:56:24.000And so that's why the defense is doing everything they can to knock them off of their game, like, for example, not allowing anything about Charlie's beliefs to come into the court.
00:56:35.000Yeah, so Jack, you're in that room and then you walk out and see how some people are covering it.
00:56:43.000How different is the story that some people are telling from what you're actually watching and learning in real time in there?
00:56:56.000Well, it's really interesting because I'm there and I'm watching both sides, and I've got two notepads now full of notes about both sides the prosecution and the defense.
00:57:12.000And then you go online and you see people saying things that haven't Been brought up by either side.
00:57:18.000They haven't been brought up even by the people who are defending Tyler Robinson.
00:57:23.000And so, you know, these things about like, you know, what type of rifle it was or what the DNA was, the defense isn't even arguing against that.
00:57:33.000They're now they're arguing, so they're questioning credibility and things like that.
00:57:37.000But, you know, they are, you know, it was stipulated in court that there's, again, a 95 to 89% DNA match on items that were found at the crime scene to Tyler Robinson.
00:57:52.000So basically, if you're sitting there, you've got to be able to come up with a very, very good explanation for.
00:57:59.000At this point, we have a towel, you know, a bath towel that came from your house three hours away.
00:58:05.000It just magically found in the woods wrapped around a Mauser 98 and a screwdriver that was found up on the roof next to a sniper's perch, as we just talked about, with your DNA on it, somehow magically found its way there.
00:58:22.000If you weren't the shooter, you're going to have to come up with some way to reasonably present an alternate theory as to how that happened.
00:58:33.000And that's just when you look at these things logically, it becomes very hard to take that apart.
00:58:39.000And we haven't even gotten to the gun yet.
00:58:42.000We haven't gotten to the ATF report, which is going to be coming later in the week, the ballistics report, some of which has come out in the media, but not totally in court yet.
00:58:51.000So, I mean, these are other key pieces of information, but every single time it comes out, You just see the scales being weighed further and further and further in favor of Tyler Robinson being the shooter.
00:59:12.000You know, you heard the exploding mic theory and all these things that didn't really make sense to me, especially based on your videos that you see of the actual shooting.
00:59:20.000I didn't see anything sort of explode that way.
00:59:22.000The one that a lot of people, you know, understandably probably seem to latch on is that, you know, That the bullet would enter a neck and not come out from a 30 out six.
01:01:07.000Again, except for if the shooter was using frangible bullets or something, a really soft nose bullet designed essentially to go through the ribcage.
01:01:13.000You actually don't want a bullet when you're hunting, usually to pass all the way through an animal, because that means that there's energy transferred not into the animal doing the most effective job of stopping it.
01:01:22.000You actually want that in sort of the vital zones, doing the damage there and having the full kinetic energy of that bullet in there.
01:01:28.000There's all sorts of ballistic arguments to be made here.
01:02:20.000That courtyard is, which is down at the bottom of this amphitheater.
01:02:23.000And then the buildings are kind of stacked on a hill.
01:02:27.000That when you're at the top of that Lossi Center looking down into the courtyard, you're like maybe five, six stories above where Charlie was all the way down.
01:02:38.000So it's a downward angle shot that was going in, which is, you know, which can be.
01:02:43.000And I see some of these videos that people are doing on YouTube and it's always like a straight horizontal shot.
01:02:48.000And it's like, well, no, but that's not what happened.
01:02:50.000Obviously, listen, the hypotenuse of triangle, you're going to have.
01:02:54.000Yeah, there's so many different variables that I think we need to get in.
01:02:59.000And look, we were already told that it did fragment.
01:03:04.000And the autopsy, in terms of what's been released, is that it did hit bone, that it fragmented.
01:03:11.000And we also know the age of the bullet, by the way.
01:03:14.000We know it's World War II era, so it could be an older bullet.
01:03:18.000And that it was those fragments that were later recovered from Charlie.
01:03:23.000And so we do know that there was fragmentation.
01:03:25.000That's something that has come out from the ATF report.
01:03:28.000Okay, so yeah, I mean, it's just the thing that I get, you know, asked a lot, just having been a former competitive shooter and like, you know, very avid hunter.
01:03:43.000Like I said, for me, you know, neck shooting, you know, deer, you know, elk, you may not get a pass through all that often, frankly.
01:03:51.000It's a much bigger animal, but to create something approximately the size of a human neck, and generally, if you're culling does or something like that, it's probably smaller than a human neck.
01:03:59.000And I'd say, you know, 85% of the time, you'd get a full pass through on a larger neck ammo, a buck, maybe 80, but between 80 and 90.
01:04:12.000And then again, not knowing what the specific bullet, meaning the actual projectile, not the cartridge, we know it's a 30 out of 6, but people oftentimes don't know that.
01:04:18.000Those are the people that draw the entire bullet and the casing and everything going out of the barrel of the gun.
01:04:24.000It's just not how that works without knowing that.
01:05:20.000So it's just one of those things that, you know, keeps coming up.
01:05:22.000People like, you haven't addressed it.
01:05:23.000It's like, well, I don't have the information because I don't know what the projectile actually was, meaning the specific bullet coming out of a 30-odd six case.
01:05:31.000You know, again, a frangible bullet, nine times out of 10, it wouldn't pass through.
01:05:35.000It may not, maybe even less than that.
01:05:39.000I don't know what he was using, I don't know what his capabilities were.
01:05:42.000So, you know, I can't opine on that, but I wanted to make sure to address it, at least in some detail here, because it's one of those facts that everyone's just latching onto.
01:05:50.000Like, you know, it had to be a guy with a suppressed round, or, you know, you've heard the air gun theories.
01:05:54.000It's like, you know, I've shot large caliber air guns.
01:05:57.000Like, there's, you would have heard the noise.
01:06:25.000Maybe the speaker was turned to a different way, but you add up enough of these things.
01:06:29.000And again, I think you certainly get the probable cause here that this is what it is.
01:06:33.000But I don't want to skirt the issue because it keeps coming up.
01:06:36.000And depending on where you're talking, you're getting a very different level of response.
01:06:42.000Well, and Don, but to our point, right?
01:06:45.000This is why we want things like the ATF report to be released to the public completely and the ballistics report.
01:06:54.000And yes, unfortunately, the autopsy as well.
01:06:58.000Because if we have more information, then you and I don't have to play these guessing games and we could put something together and say, okay, so it was this way and then this happened and here's how it went.
01:07:07.000And so the prosecution has been trying to get this evidence out, but it's been the defense that's delaying it every single time.
01:07:15.000So, to your point, you know, here's something that people are talking about online.
01:07:19.000But it hasn't even come up in the court yet because they're not letting it in.
01:07:30.000You know, I want to know this for a fact.
01:07:34.000To me, based on what I've seen, you know, unless something seriously changes in the next couple of days, I certainly, in my mind, would have enough to go probable cause that this was it.
01:07:45.000And then you have all the extenuating circumstances that we've talked about, whether it's the lover, the text messages, the parents turning them in, the Discord chats.
01:07:53.000Um, you know, it just seems to get me to the point where, like, this is literally almost without fail the most plausible uh, you know, scenario.
01:08:04.000Um, and so, you know, again, I know that pisses off a lot of people.
01:08:07.000I've loved you forever, and the fact that you didn't jump onto that, you know, it was aliens from you know another planet that did this.
01:08:13.000You know, I'm sorry to disappoint you guys, but like, I, you know, I owe it to my friend to be honest, and you know, I would never lie about it for any reason or change my opinion or otherwise for that.
01:08:24.000I think we all owe it to Charlie and to his legacy.
01:08:46.000And I'm not discounting anything anyone says, but I am also going to look at the evidence and I'm going to say, well, this is what the evidence.
01:08:53.000And I, by the way, I remember when people said that about Derek Chauvin, too, for years.
01:08:57.000People told me Derek Chauvin is a murderer.
01:09:03.000And then when I looked at the case and I said, Well, wait a minute.
01:09:06.000I just don't think this evidence matches up with what they're saying.
01:09:08.000Now, the jury did what they did there.
01:09:10.000And I think that was incredibly politicized.
01:09:12.000But again, that was something where it was very unpopular for me to say that from the very start that I didn't think that what Derek Chauvin did was murder.
01:09:23.000And people on both sides of the aisle really came after me.
01:09:25.000And now here we are a couple of years later.
01:09:27.000Emotions have died down and people are starting to look at that saying, you know, yeah, that may have actually been political.
01:09:41.000It was actually Bill Ackman, who was certainly a very big leftist at the time, who put out this really, he's sort of known for putting out these long and detailed tweets.
01:09:52.000And he put out this tweet being like, wait a minute, I've been watching the trial, actually watching, and the evidence presented against Kyle Rittenhouse.
01:09:58.000And I thought he was a white supremacist, but he killed a white pedophile and another guy that was attacking him with a skateboard.
01:10:05.000And he goes, and this is a big business guy, he's a big hedge fund guy.
01:10:10.000And he goes, It's sort of interesting.
01:10:11.000So, I'm watching the trial with my wife, and we're saying, wait a minute, this is so different than everything we thought we knew about the case.
01:10:16.000And he goes, it reminds me sort of like when I read the Wall Street Journal about some deal, and I'm on the deal.
01:10:22.000Like, I'm on one side of the transaction, or I know the guys that are.
01:10:39.000And I think it's one of these things where, you know, I'm not saying he's changed his political beliefs.
01:10:43.000He was a huge Democrat funder, but it was the first time you saw someone from that side come out and be like, oh, you mean because I read it in the press doesn't mean it's true?
01:10:50.000So, you know, actually seeing the evidence, you know, is so critical.
01:10:55.000So, for, you know, the people, you know, who get it, great.
01:10:59.000For the people who are hating on it, you know, I understand.
01:11:01.000And, you know, trust me, I've been 95% on the conspiracy side of most of these things.
01:11:07.000But, you know, the people, I mean, there's people out there saying, you were complicit.
01:11:11.000I was in France, like, when it happened.
01:11:14.000It was like, Midnight, when I like, I'm like, you know, somehow I'm complicit and Erica's, and everyone's complicit.
01:11:20.000I mean, it's sort of sad and disgusting how far some of that's gone.
01:11:24.000And again, I can understand people being skeptical and wanting to get to the bottom of it, but, you know, some of what I've seen out there is pretty outlandish.
01:11:32.000And again, that's coming from me, who has a, you know, I think a pretty solid bona fides in terms of going all in for conspiracy theories that I truly believe were conspiracy theories that turned out to be right.
01:12:29.000So, you know, Jack, I know you're going to be there for the rest of the week.
01:12:31.000Can you tell people how you're covering the rest of this hearing, where they can follow your reporting as the trial moves forward so they can, you know, again, not hear the spin from other people, but hear like literally what's being presented, you know, day in and day out?
01:13:37.000By the way, one more point I think, you know, I asked you about what was most shocking to you.
01:13:40.000I think one of the things that was perhaps most shocking to me in all of this was finding out that for a turning point event, thousands of people in attendance, that there were only six police officers on duty at the university for, you know, what would probably be a really big event for, you know, Utah Valley University.
01:14:00.000That, I mean, that to me is, you know, one of the craziest things I've heard in all of this.
01:14:04.000I mean, six events, no prior briefing, no real plan.
01:14:11.000That to me was the scariest thing I've seen all week, actually.
01:14:17.000You know, I remember when we got, I first got that information, you know, a couple days afterwards.
01:14:22.000And I just, I, you know, it's, it's one of those things that it's, it's, I'm never going to not, I'm never going to stop being angry about that.
01:14:31.000I'm just, I'm never going to stop being angry about that.
01:14:35.000And, you know, as someone who's done a lot of these events with Charlie and I was supposed to do one, you know, two or three weeks after, after this event, it's like, wow, it's, it, it, It made it all the, you know, so much more real.
01:14:46.000And yeah, now I still can't believe it.
01:14:49.000But Jack, thanks for everything you're doing, man.
01:15:03.000And God bless to you and to Bettina for making the time to come out.
01:15:06.000I know it's not easy and certainly not fun sitting there in the courtroom, but I think it was really, really important for not just the family, but for the whole country to be able to see you guys there.
01:15:58.000So, guys, thanks so much for tuning in.
01:16:00.000Sorry about the scheduling stuff, but I, you know, I thought it was more important for me just to be there to support my friend, his memory, you know, his wife and family.