TRIGGERnometry - An Epidemic of Narcissism with Richard Grannon

00:00:00.000 The dehumanization that's operating broad scale is having an awful effect on the way people interact with each other.

00:00:08.120 Because, as you've just said, if I'm only dealing with an avatar, that avatar is either going to give me what I want or they're not.

00:00:15.280 And if they don't, they're a defective avatar.

00:00:17.900 They're an iPhone that doesn't work properly or an app that needs updating.

00:00:21.520 And I'm very cross and I'm very frustrated that it's not giving me what I want.

00:00:24.740 It's sad, but that's what we're, our brains have been entrained to think about life and relationships and people in a highly narcissistic way.

00:00:40.680 Hello and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster.

00:00:44.900 I'm Constantine Kissin.

00:00:46.080 And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.

00:00:51.280 Our brilliant guest today is an author and YouTuber, Richard Grannon. Welcome to Trigonometry.

00:00:55.560 Thank you very much for having me on. I'm a huge fan. I've been for years.

00:00:59.220 Props to you guys. It's taken a lot of courage to do what you do.

00:01:02.280 Much respect from all of your fans, I'm sure. I can speak on everybody's behalf.

00:01:06.460 We really appreciate what you've done and the risks you've taken.

00:01:09.220 Some of them hate us, mate, but thank you very much anyway.

00:01:11.280 I did my best for you.

00:01:15.180 Listen, it's great to have you on the show. You do great work as well.

00:01:18.280 Well, there's obviously a lot of stuff we'll get into, but before we do, just tell everybody, who are you?

00:01:24.260 What is your journey through life? How have you ended up here? What have you been doing with yourself?

00:01:29.280 That's a good question. My mum asked me that a lot. What have you been doing with yourself?

00:01:33.000 I probably should start, but I got a degree in psychology and I thought that I was going to join the army

00:01:41.980 and do the officer training and then try and get into military intelligence. That was my hope.

00:01:47.640 I was out in Chester and I got glassed in the eye and that sort of made me wait a little bit

00:01:55.060 because I had some PTSD from that. It was a homophobic attack.

00:01:59.960 I was headbutted and hit in the eye with a glass for being gay. 1.00

00:02:04.740 Fucking hell. 1.00

00:02:05.280 Yeah, no, I still, it was a half pint glass, so he shattered it and like little bits. 0.99

00:02:10.700 So I still have bits in the bag under my eye and in my nose and stuff.

00:02:14.900 And that sort of made me take a little bit of a step back and have a look about what I wanted to do.

00:02:21.920 I drifted for a bit. I started doing little bits and pieces of counselling

00:02:26.200 and I started doing nightclub security.

00:02:28.780 So for about 10, 12 years on and off, I was doing nightclub security.

00:02:32.740 I was teaching some of the lads little bits and pieces because I was always into martial arts.

00:02:37.700 And that sort of developed into a self-defence business, an online self-defence business.

00:02:44.780 And after about 10 years of doing that, what I noticed with the lads that I was training,

00:02:51.080 they'd be like other martial arts instructors, some soldiers, bodyguards, fighters.

00:02:55.220 They had problems with their asserting themselves and asserting their personal boundaries.

00:02:59.980 And it was coming up again and again.

00:03:01.940 So I created a sideline thing called Spartan Life Coach.

00:03:05.100 The original business was called Street Fight Secrets.

00:03:07.560 Very imaginative. 0.93

00:03:09.440 And it was for guys who couldn't, you know, they could shoot you in the head or punch you, 0.91

00:03:15.120 but they couldn't say no to their wife and kids.

00:03:17.680 So I thought that was going to be the thing that I was going to do.

00:03:21.060 And that was in about 2013.

00:03:23.260 And then I started posting online about asserting personal boundaries,

00:03:28.420 narcissism, psychopathy, the types of people who would predate on others,

00:03:32.240 either physically or emotionally.

00:03:33.720 It blew up.

00:03:34.800 It really, really blew up.

00:03:35.920 And so the last eight years has been a focus on childhood trauma, codependency, narcissism,

00:03:43.240 and all of that type of thing, which brings us up to today, I think, in short form.

00:03:48.140 And one of the things I was going to ask you, it's interesting.

00:03:50.240 I've done a lot of personal development.

00:03:51.720 When I studied hypnotherapy, I did all the NLP and all that stuff.

00:03:55.220 And a lot of it, I don't actually think nowadays with the benefit of hindsight was that great.

00:04:01.940 I'm glad I've done it, though.

00:04:03.240 Yeah.

00:04:03.500 But do you think, first of all, that people get into, it's the same, I think, often with martial arts.

00:04:08.780 People who get into martial arts are quite often people who are compensating for being bullied

00:04:12.740 or they're trying to look for a way out.

00:04:14.180 It's the same with personal development stuff.

00:04:16.300 Quite often, I think, people get into it because they're trying to resolve their own stuff.

00:04:20.920 Like you mentioned, getting PTSD and sort of, do you think that's a thing that happens?

00:04:25.460 There's a huge crossover between the types of people who would seek out neurolinguistic programming,

00:04:29.680 hypnotherapy, which was me.

00:04:30.920 I did the same thing.

00:04:32.520 Trained at 18 here in London with Richard Bandler, actually, as I was doing the martial arts stuff.

00:04:37.420 So, yeah, it's compensatory, almost like looking for superpowers.

00:04:41.760 It's like an infantile response.

00:04:43.440 You know, you've been hurt, you've been bullied, you don't know how to deal with that.

00:04:46.600 So you look outside for things so that you won't get hurt again, I think.

00:04:52.060 So, yeah, there was a huge crossover between, not everybody who does martial arts does NLP,

00:04:57.120 but there's a fascination.

00:04:58.600 There is a mutual fascination between the two subjects, for sure.

00:05:02.020 Because for me, it was less of that.

00:05:04.600 It was much more about skill acquisition.

00:05:06.840 I felt that I had a lot of deficiencies in certain areas.

00:05:10.380 But I did find, and this is actually what worried me about a lot of the personal development industry,

00:05:14.880 is these people were being trained to help other people,

00:05:18.740 but they weren't really in the position to help anyone.

00:05:21.680 He's very kind, isn't he? 1.00

00:05:23.680 Some of them are scumbags. 0.99

00:05:24.880 No, no, I don't even mean that. 1.00

00:05:26.220 I just think they're hurt people who hadn't processed their own shit, 0.98

00:05:29.580 trying to help other people. 0.99

00:05:31.240 Yes.

00:05:31.820 Yeah, no, it is questionable.

00:05:34.860 And there's a scale. 0.99

00:05:37.220 I mean, you do have full-blown predatory types who are real scumbags, 0.98

00:05:41.460 right the way through to well-intentioned people, as you say, 0.95

00:05:43.540 who are just hurt, and they haven't resolved their own issues.

00:05:47.120 You could say the same thing for psychotherapy and counselling.

00:05:49.740 Yeah, 100%.

00:05:50.620 The more legitimate sort of institutions where, yeah, you know,

00:05:55.780 there are such a thing as fat boxing coaches.

00:05:57.980 There are fat BJJ trainers.

00:05:59.480 You can learn from somebody who's not living that life fully themselves,

00:06:03.180 but how much, and especially when it's about core wounds from childhood

00:06:08.140 and your emotional intelligence,

00:06:10.020 if you're dealing with somebody who fundamentally isn't very emotionally intelligent,

00:06:13.720 yeah, you're right.

00:06:14.360 There's only so far they can take you, and it gets dangerous.

00:06:16.520 So what do you think is a healthy approach?

00:06:18.640 Because, look, I actually believe personal development is very important,

00:06:22.060 and, you know, the stuff you create and talk about how to identify certain things.

00:06:26.260 What do you think is a healthy way for people who are maybe looking to improve things in their life,

00:06:31.820 or, like, what is a healthy way of dealing with that?

00:06:34.380 I think what would save us all a lot of trouble is if we took the advice.

00:06:41.540 I think Freud took it from Dostoevsky and the brothers Karamazov,

00:06:44.640 which is we should seek to be as rigorously honest with ourselves as we can.

00:06:48.740 And you have that as the starting point. 0.94

00:06:51.300 As soon as you start bullshitting yourself and bullshitting other people, you should stop. 0.89

00:06:54.620 There's no too many people involved in the NLP community think and talk about NLP. 0.95

00:06:59.880 Like, it's a trick for tricking people, getting girls into bed, getting people to buy used cars or buy things they don't need. 0.90

00:07:07.200 It should never have been seen that way.

00:07:08.700 So if we start with a good principle, which is be rigorously honest with yourself, which is extremely demanding.

00:07:15.720 It's a very, very hard thing to follow up on.

00:07:17.920 And painful too.

00:07:18.860 Extremely painful.

00:07:19.680 And that's where you see that principle overlaps with the Jungian idea, which is probably something else we should bring back, that we must integrate our shadow.

00:07:30.360 We have to integrate the unconscious.

00:07:31.960 We're not little angels and saints, virtuous beings toddling around on earth.

00:07:36.600 We have darkness inside of us.

00:07:38.620 And to say, well, that's not me.

00:07:39.880 That's them.

00:07:40.620 That's outside of me.

00:07:42.500 It's just an infantile defense mechanism.

00:07:45.480 I mean, in terms of psychoanalytic theory, what you're doing, it's scapegoating in principle.

00:07:51.160 There's no sin in me.

00:07:52.140 I'm free of sin.

00:07:52.880 All the sin is over there or over there or over there.

00:07:55.420 That is easy to do, commonplace, but extremely dangerous.

00:08:00.020 Because if you start believing you're free from sin, you can attack people and, you know, you lose humility then.

00:08:07.180 So that would help.

00:08:08.080 Shadow integration would help, I think. 0.99

00:08:09.720 And we see that a lot right the way through our culture now, where people like to portray themselves as being free from sin on the one hand.

00:08:17.180 And on the other hand, they go, right, it's therefore fine to destroy this person's reputation or livelihood.

00:08:21.900 In many ways, the whole project that you guys have been engaged in, looking at it from my perspective solipsistically, is like you're looking at shadow-activated people and you're trying to point out the shadow.

00:08:34.900 Because it's not fair.

00:08:36.200 These are justice warriors, but they're unjust.

00:08:38.480 So you're pointing out, hey, excuse me, Emperor's got no clothes on here.

00:08:41.880 You're not so great yourself.

00:08:43.340 You're shouting about anti-racism in the most racist way possible, for example.

00:08:48.080 And that's 100% shadow activation.

00:08:50.840 That's people who've slipped into their unconscious.

00:08:54.140 And even more frighteningly, they find other people who've slipped into their own unconscious in the same way.

00:08:59.020 Then you have like a kind of collective shadow possession in certain groups.

00:09:05.320 And they're egging each other on.

00:09:06.860 It's those guys over there that are bad.

00:09:08.500 Yes, it's them.

00:09:10.260 Every genocide, every atrocity in history starts with people doing that.

00:09:15.340 Shadow activation, collective shadow possession.

00:09:18.260 And then they identify a target and they go for it.

00:09:21.720 So I think like honesty, keeping ourselves honest, being able to reflect, being able to understand that we have an unconscious that needs integrating.

00:09:30.500 And being able to call each other out.

00:09:32.400 You know, we should, if we trust each other and we're acting in good faith, you should be able to say, hang on a second, Francis.

00:09:38.400 That's, you know, that's feedback.

00:09:40.420 That's where psychoanalysis is powerful when it's at its best.

00:09:44.420 Psychotherapy works great if you have that faith and if you have that rapport and it's done in good faith.

00:09:49.940 We can support each other to integrate our own shadows, I think, over time.

00:09:54.240 Because we all have egos.

00:09:55.200 We all have narcissism.

00:09:56.180 Nobody's free from it.

00:09:56.900 It's interesting because we, like, I know you recently watched the video that we put out about all our journey here.

00:10:04.140 And part of it that we never really got to talk about, simply because it didn't come up, is actually a lot of the conversations we have off screen is about, you know, how do we improve as people?

00:10:13.480 How do we improve as a team?

00:10:15.040 You know, and frankly, there have been times when Francis said to me, look, you're doing this and it's not constructive and vice versa.

00:10:20.160 That, to me, is so important.

00:10:22.660 But we do seem to live in a culture now where we've been allowed, because I think of social media, I don't know what your view is on that, where we just project this image of ourselves as perfection.

00:10:34.160 And you can't back down from that in public anymore, you know?

00:10:39.060 Yeah, it's a real shame.

00:10:40.560 It's like a sunk cost fallacy, isn't it?

00:10:42.440 You know, you've been telling the world and telling yourself you're perfect for five, six, seven years.

00:10:47.140 You've got your 1.2 million followers.

00:10:48.900 Are you going to go back and be like, sorry about this, folks? 1.00

00:10:52.260 I'm actually full of shit. 0.95

00:10:54.880 I must have gone back, was the whole time, sorry about that. 0.99

00:10:58.180 You know, it's hard, but in many ways, we should.

00:11:02.000 I mean, I just released a video recently saying to my followers, like, I've just gotten back into a narcissistically abusive relationship.

00:11:08.520 Now, I teach avoidance and recovery from narcissistic abuse relationships.

00:11:12.540 If you don't want to listen to anymore, I understand.

00:11:15.320 I'm fallible.

00:11:16.600 I still have an unconscious.

00:11:17.800 I still become shadow activated.

00:11:22.220 Usually lust is a bit of a weakness, but that's a weakness in everybody.

00:11:26.360 So once the intimacy button gets triggered, the lust button is triggered, I'm not as rational as I would be otherwise.

00:11:33.100 And you do think you start to compromise on your own moral boundaries.

00:11:36.860 But these ideas that we're talking about now, they're not popular.

00:11:40.640 And I think that social media is not the cause, but it's been an accelerant because it's permitted us our own solipsism. 0.93

00:11:49.200 And it's fed us our own bullshit back to us. 0.99

00:11:53.840 And it's got this masturbatory quality to it. 1.00

00:11:56.260 You're inside your own head, sort of pleasuring yourself with your own wonderful, hyper-idealized self-image. 0.98

00:12:03.640 And nobody's cutting in and saying, hang on though, lads.

00:12:06.560 You are actually a bit of a better end.

00:12:08.160 Sometimes, you know, you've got to stop doing that.

00:12:10.640 And you've got potentially millions of followers telling you the same thing.

00:12:14.940 You say, I'm great.

00:12:16.040 And then the crowd says, you're great.

00:12:17.680 I'm great.

00:12:18.440 Yes, you are great.

00:12:20.680 Any of us, we're human.

00:12:22.500 Our egos are fallible.

00:12:24.080 And we would fall prey to that.

00:12:25.880 We would fall in love or in lust with our own self-image at that point, I think.

00:12:29.880 That's what's happened.

00:12:30.920 It's an accelerant.

00:12:31.780 It's a catalyst, social media.

00:12:33.520 It's such a good point.

00:12:34.840 It has fueled our sense of narcissism.

00:12:36.860 You see it everywhere.

00:12:38.640 People constantly taking selfies of themselves.

00:12:42.140 When I was younger, that just wasn't a thing.

00:12:44.780 That just wasn't a thing.

00:12:46.000 Perpetually taking...

00:12:46.540 When I was a boy.

00:12:47.420 Yeah.

00:12:47.800 When I was...

00:12:48.400 It's wrong.

00:12:50.160 It's not natural, Gary.

00:12:52.600 But it's true.

00:12:54.200 Constantly taking photos of yourself.

00:12:56.160 That must breathe an unhealthy obsession

00:12:59.040 with your physical appearance.

00:13:00.600 Well, now we know clinically from the research,

00:13:04.000 you've got people out there

00:13:05.120 who are taking upwards of 1,000 selfies a day.

00:13:09.100 They don't post them.

00:13:10.500 They're looking for the perfect selfie. 1.00

00:13:12.260 Fucking hell. 0.99

00:13:12.820 And it can be upward of 1,000 selfies a day. 0.99

00:13:15.080 There was a case of a boy.

00:13:16.600 They had to separate him.

00:13:17.980 I think he was 15.

00:13:18.880 They had to separate him from his mobile phone.

00:13:21.260 But because of the psychotic rage he would go into,

00:13:24.260 they had to grade it.

00:13:25.060 So they'd separate him from his mobile phone for two minutes,

00:13:27.400 then three minutes, then four.

00:13:28.480 And when he got it back in his hand,

00:13:30.300 he'd start selfie-ing straight away.

00:13:32.240 So he's an unusual case.

00:13:33.960 This isn't normal.

00:13:34.820 But I think it shows you that

00:13:36.080 in terms of the mechanism of the human mind,

00:13:38.900 how fallible it is,

00:13:40.340 my sense of self is coming from that.

00:13:41.940 That's my mirror.

00:13:43.040 But it's now not a mirror.

00:13:44.340 That's me.

00:13:45.240 This isn't me.

00:13:46.260 The real self is now here.

00:13:48.580 We have to stop this.

00:13:49.700 We have to set boundaries on that.

00:13:51.340 It won't affect us in that way.

00:13:52.900 We're not digital natives.

00:13:54.080 You're right.

00:13:54.520 If I saw one of my mates as a kid,

00:13:56.940 you know those disposable cameras

00:13:58.240 we were used to go on holiday with?

00:13:59.540 If you turned it on yourself, 0.64

00:14:00.560 you'd slap them. 1.00

00:14:01.800 You're doing your tits. 1.00

00:14:03.480 But now, yeah, you can have a stick 1.00

00:14:05.120 and you can, you know,

00:14:06.020 and people stop for you

00:14:07.820 or they walk around you.

00:14:08.860 It's interesting to me

00:14:12.840 how quickly that's become normalized,

00:14:15.060 this hyper-normalization effect

00:14:16.500 because we're not that old

00:14:18.860 and inside of a decade and a half,

00:14:21.400 this thing that you wouldn't dream of doing,

00:14:23.480 even if you wanted to do it,

00:14:24.640 you wouldn't physically do it.

00:14:26.140 Everybody does it

00:14:26.840 and potentially thousands of times a day.

00:14:29.700 And to a young mind,

00:14:31.860 pre-adolescent, 12, 13, 14,

00:14:34.120 they're so susceptible to narcissism,

00:14:36.640 becoming highly narcissistic.

00:14:38.140 They want to be seen.

00:14:39.680 They're trying to climb

00:14:40.520 the social dominance hierarchy.

00:14:42.380 They want to know where they stand on it

00:14:43.800 and they think this device

00:14:45.420 is telling them where they stand.

00:14:47.600 It's too much for them.

00:14:48.980 It's like crack or something for the ego.

00:14:52.320 Isn't that the etymology

00:14:53.840 of the word narcissism?

00:14:55.560 It's from,

00:14:56.600 I don't know how you say his name in English.

00:14:58.740 Narcissus.

00:14:59.540 Narcissus, who would stare himself

00:15:01.420 in the mirror endlessly.

00:15:03.380 How would you say it in Russian?

00:15:05.080 Narcissus.

00:15:06.300 Narcissus.

00:15:06.820 Yeah.

00:15:07.060 Yeah, it's exactly that.

00:15:08.880 And that is also the root of narcotics.

00:15:12.620 So these things,

00:15:13.520 it's self-obsession,

00:15:14.520 but it's also a drug that numbs

00:15:15.940 and it creates sleep.

00:15:17.400 So people who are in their phones,

00:15:18.680 they're in a numbed,

00:15:19.860 sleepy,

00:15:20.620 drugged out state

00:15:21.480 of staring into their own reflection.

00:15:24.240 Depends on the myth you go for,

00:15:25.780 but one of them was that

00:15:26.980 he stared at his own reflection

00:15:28.020 until eventually he starved to death.

00:15:29.440 I find that the most interesting one

00:15:31.420 because we are starving to death.

00:15:33.660 What are we starving for?

00:15:36.220 Attention.

00:15:36.960 And you think,

00:15:37.320 but you're getting all the attention

00:15:38.300 you could possibly want, 0.98

00:15:39.620 but this is junk attention. 0.97

00:15:41.460 I think it's connection 0.97

00:15:42.420 that we're starving for.

00:15:43.260 We're starving for connection.

00:15:44.560 I think that's what it is.

00:15:45.680 And recognition

00:15:46.500 and all of those things, right?

00:15:48.300 100%.

00:15:48.700 100%.

00:15:49.660 It's a fascinating,

00:15:50.940 sorry, Francis.

00:15:51.060 No, I was just going to say,

00:15:52.420 the thing that I find most depressing

00:15:53.760 is I remember once I sat down

00:15:55.540 with my girlfriend to eat dinner

00:15:56.840 and there was this beautiful young couple

00:15:58.420 next to us in their mid-twenties.

00:16:00.320 They looked successful.

00:16:01.880 And all they did

00:16:02.620 was they were just opposite each other

00:16:04.680 on their phone.

00:16:05.600 And I'm thinking,

00:16:06.560 you're in your mid-twenties.

00:16:07.900 You're in love.

00:16:08.660 You're young.

00:16:09.500 This is the peak.

00:16:10.660 Yeah.

00:16:10.860 This is it.

00:16:11.500 And you just,

00:16:12.360 and that's all there is.

00:16:14.880 Well, we accidentally,

00:16:16.720 well, I saw you in a beefy,

00:16:17.840 you didn't see me.

00:16:18.580 I was peeping at you

00:16:19.360 from a restaurant somewhere.

00:16:20.160 Was he on his phone?

00:16:23.000 Running down the street,

00:16:24.040 singing happily he was.

00:16:26.020 The number of times I saw that

00:16:28.100 and it was almost,

00:16:29.140 it was almost like you could correlate

00:16:30.460 between the attractiveness

00:16:31.540 of the couple.

00:16:32.760 So you see a really good looking couple,

00:16:34.740 you know,

00:16:35.000 mid to late twenties,

00:16:37.000 exceptionally,

00:16:38.180 you know,

00:16:38.440 these are specimens.

00:16:39.380 Well done them.

00:16:40.100 They've won the genetic lottery

00:16:41.320 and they're sat opposite each other

00:16:43.000 and they're not looking at each other.

00:16:44.460 Their heads are down,

00:16:45.640 which is such a weirdly depressing

00:16:47.040 and submissive posture anyway. 0.54

00:16:48.880 You know,

00:16:49.100 you're sat opposite a beautiful woman

00:16:50.900 or a beautiful man,

00:16:52.200 beautiful environment.

00:16:53.060 It's Ibiza in the summertime,

00:16:54.280 a great restaurant.

00:16:55.480 Yeah.

00:16:56.280 Yeah.

00:16:56.740 You know,

00:16:57.020 maybe they're sending each other memes

00:16:58.420 or maybe they are communicating

00:17:00.020 through the phone,

00:17:01.660 but really you can't put it down

00:17:03.500 for like an hour and a half

00:17:04.740 and just talk to your partner

00:17:05.900 for a little bit.

00:17:07.100 That's a real shame.

00:17:08.140 And they'll walk away from that

00:17:09.420 with body dysmorphia issues,

00:17:11.180 anxiety,

00:17:12.080 depression,

00:17:13.320 massive amounts of status anxiety.

00:17:16.040 It's really doing a tremendous amount

00:17:18.260 of psychological damage.

00:17:19.280 And by the way,

00:17:20.140 just very much in the spirit

00:17:22.200 of shadow recognition,

00:17:24.020 at least,

00:17:24.340 maybe not integration,

00:17:25.300 but certainly recognition,

00:17:26.720 like we're the same.

00:17:27.700 Like I would argue

00:17:29.380 other than every now and again

00:17:32.240 when I have a really like

00:17:34.140 in-depth conversation

00:17:35.240 with my wife

00:17:36.680 or my mum

00:17:37.300 or my dad,

00:17:38.760 it's very rare.

00:17:40.020 This,

00:17:40.840 what we do for work

00:17:42.100 is probably

00:17:42.700 one of the rare times

00:17:44.500 that even I,

00:17:45.980 who I'm conscious

00:17:46.860 at least of this,

00:17:48.200 get to sit down

00:17:49.080 with another human being

00:17:50.200 and have a conversation

00:17:51.880 that's uninterrupted

00:17:53.620 by checking my emails

00:17:54.860 or whatever.

00:17:55.440 Like that's one of the reasons

00:17:56.860 I love doing the show

00:17:58.100 is we get to sit down

00:17:59.680 with interesting people

00:18:00.580 and actually it's just,

00:18:02.360 it's just that.

00:18:03.680 There's nothing else there.

00:18:04.300 There's nothing else there.

00:18:05.440 And that is,

00:18:06.820 I think,

00:18:07.160 such an increasingly rare thing

00:18:09.320 for people to experience.

00:18:11.200 I wonder where,

00:18:12.400 you know what,

00:18:13.620 let's just go back a sec

00:18:15.540 because we've been talking

00:18:16.260 about narcissism quite a lot

00:18:17.480 and we haven't really defined it.

00:18:19.080 Okay.

00:18:19.600 And I think it might be

00:18:20.320 a good thing to do.

00:18:21.200 Okay.

00:18:21.820 So if we're talking,

00:18:24.360 what I would usually talk about

00:18:26.540 is distinct from narcissism,

00:18:28.860 it's narcissistic

00:18:29.560 personality disorder.

00:18:30.820 So somebody who's gone

00:18:31.860 through a deeply traumatic childhood

00:18:33.420 that's been a combination

00:18:34.620 of two polarities,

00:18:35.820 one would be abuse

00:18:36.740 and the other is a kind

00:18:38.220 of adulation of the child.

00:18:39.880 So the child would have been

00:18:40.980 told that they were,

00:18:42.900 can I swear?

00:18:43.720 Yeah, of course you can. 1.00

00:18:44.620 You're a useless piece of shit. 1.00

00:18:45.960 You're dreadful. 1.00

00:18:46.620 They would have been

00:18:47.300 instrumentalized,

00:18:49.300 objectified,

00:18:50.260 sexual, 0.50

00:18:50.980 physical abuse.

00:18:51.960 but either the same person

00:18:54.280 in their schizophrenic state

00:18:55.860 would then tell them

00:18:57.120 perhaps they feel guilty

00:18:58.100 after the abuse.

00:18:58.840 You're wonderful.

00:18:59.460 You're an angel.

00:19:00.320 So they're living

00:19:01.360 in this kind of split. 1.00

00:19:02.480 You're a terrible piece of shit 1.00

00:19:03.800 but you're wonderful 1.00

00:19:04.580 and you're an angel.

00:19:06.720 The parent needs to offer them

00:19:08.360 adulation,

00:19:09.180 not love.

00:19:10.080 Applause

00:19:10.560 as a member of an,

00:19:12.200 as an audience member,

00:19:13.320 not direct love.

00:19:15.180 So the love has to come

00:19:16.520 through audience.

00:19:17.760 So you're an amazing piano player

00:19:19.240 and I love you for that

00:19:20.120 because I get narcissistic

00:19:21.340 supply vicariously.

00:19:22.740 You're great at physics

00:19:23.660 or you're a very pretty kid

00:19:25.120 or you're a model

00:19:25.780 or a little actor

00:19:26.820 or whatever it is,

00:19:28.340 whatever the child is,

00:19:29.400 then you will experience love.

00:19:31.180 Now you have a choice.

00:19:32.320 You can either wire

00:19:33.140 to the message

00:19:33.820 you're a bad object

00:19:35.000 in psychoanalytic terms. 1.00

00:19:36.360 It means you're a piece of shit. 1.00

00:19:37.240 You're useless 1.00

00:19:37.660 and you'll become 1.00

00:19:38.980 probably a drug addict 0.94

00:19:40.080 and suicidal. 0.96

00:19:41.020 You probably won't get past

00:19:41.980 the age of 40

00:19:42.860 or you can wire

00:19:44.320 to the idea

00:19:45.500 that you're an angel

00:19:46.180 and you think,

00:19:47.440 well, that's not so bad.

00:19:48.400 Yeah, except you're not an angel.

00:19:50.320 You're a person.

00:19:51.580 So you engage

00:19:53.340 in the sixth split

00:19:54.180 where you say,

00:19:54.720 okay, I have to get more adulation.

00:19:57.280 I have to get more worship. 0.53

00:19:58.980 So the narcissistic personality disorder 0.57

00:20:01.040 seeks narcissistic supply.

00:20:02.980 That's all they're interested in.

00:20:04.080 Give me more applause.

00:20:05.700 Give me more adulation.

00:20:07.400 Never.

00:20:07.820 They never want.

00:20:09.100 They can't deal

00:20:09.740 with horizontal love.

00:20:10.940 It's unacceptable.

00:20:12.200 They hate that.

00:20:12.920 It makes them creeped out.

00:20:14.080 They like it vertical.

00:20:14.940 You look up to me

00:20:15.720 and tell me I'm godlike.

00:20:17.060 Wonderful.

00:20:19.020 That's a problem

00:20:19.680 in and of itself

00:20:20.400 as I'm sure anybody can realize

00:20:21.780 but where I typically

00:20:23.060 am talking to people about it

00:20:24.260 is they've gotten into a relationship

00:20:25.320 with somebody like that

00:20:26.120 and they didn't realize.

00:20:27.400 So they keep trying

00:20:28.120 to offer horizontal love.

00:20:29.500 I love you

00:20:29.960 as another human being

00:20:30.900 and they go,

00:20:31.440 oh yeah, that's nice.

00:20:32.360 But inside they're thinking, 1.00

00:20:33.260 fuck you, 1.00

00:20:33.700 I'm not a human being. 1.00

00:20:34.640 I'm a god.

00:20:35.780 I'm an angel.

00:20:36.460 I'm something better

00:20:37.200 than everybody else.

00:20:38.420 So there's a fight then.

00:20:39.660 You're trying to love them like this

00:20:41.080 and they're constantly

00:20:42.040 trying to do this

00:20:43.020 and they don't,

00:20:43.800 they will not accept anything else. 0.61

00:20:46.580 Narcissistic personality disorder 0.82

00:20:48.120 is rigid.

00:20:49.400 It's rigid.

00:20:50.220 So even you can try threatening them,

00:20:52.740 you can try bribing them,

00:20:53.960 you can try whatever you want

00:20:55.040 but they learned this

00:20:56.080 in an infantile state

00:20:58.020 and so the prognosis for recovery

00:21:00.320 isn't great

00:21:01.400 because it's their only way

00:21:02.940 of interacting with the world.

00:21:04.020 So that's typically

00:21:05.180 what I talk about is NPD.

00:21:07.380 Latent narcissism, 1.00

00:21:08.440 we all have it,

00:21:09.440 we should have it,

00:21:10.400 it's healthy.

00:21:11.080 You should be concerned

00:21:12.140 with yourself.

00:21:12.820 You should want

00:21:13.440 yourself to do well,

00:21:15.500 each other to do well,

00:21:16.520 you can have collective narcissism,

00:21:17.940 you should want trigonometry

00:21:18.840 to do well,

00:21:19.680 that's narcissism.

00:21:21.180 You post,

00:21:22.320 you go and look,

00:21:23.540 you see what your likes are,

00:21:24.480 your follows are,

00:21:25.140 you check your,

00:21:25.840 that's healthy narcissism.

00:21:27.620 You want to do well.

00:21:28.980 That's a natural instinct

00:21:30.200 to progress.

00:21:31.060 We never want to lose that.

00:21:33.380 The darkness is

00:21:34.520 with the narcissistic

00:21:35.860 personality disorder

00:21:36.980 is it's become entitled

00:21:38.080 and exploitative

00:21:38.880 and then it doesn't care.

00:21:40.580 That's why it's,

00:21:41.540 one of the features

00:21:42.200 is a lack of empathy

00:21:43.160 because you're not a person.

00:21:44.720 You're just a source of supply.

00:21:46.020 I'm a vampire.

00:21:47.080 You're food. 0.97

00:21:48.580 But they will trick you.

00:21:49.720 They will tell you

00:21:50.340 whatever you want to hear

00:21:51.340 to get you into that relationship

00:21:52.760 and then they'll show you

00:21:54.180 through actions,

00:21:54.960 not words,

00:21:55.580 that they don't really see you

00:21:56.640 as a person,

00:21:57.200 they see you as food.

00:21:58.460 So that's typically

00:21:59.260 what I talk about with narcissism.

00:22:02.000 What you were saying

00:22:02.980 rings so many bells

00:22:03.980 because when I was in,

00:22:05.300 we were both in

00:22:06.320 the stand-up comedy industry,

00:22:07.720 I remember just one day

00:22:10.440 and every once in a while

00:22:12.440 like a comedian

00:22:13.220 would be outed for,

00:22:14.480 normally a male comedian,

00:22:15.880 for awful,

00:22:17.020 outrageous behaviour

00:22:18.360 that is just vile

00:22:20.300 on every level.

00:22:21.860 And you're like,

00:22:22.300 why are there so many

00:22:23.340 wrong-uns in this industry? 0.87

00:22:25.180 And then what you've just said,

00:22:26.840 I'm like,

00:22:27.140 oh,

00:22:27.440 because it's stuff

00:22:27.980 with narcissists.

00:22:29.340 So stand-up comedy

00:22:30.640 is something.

00:22:31.480 When I started doing door work,

00:22:32.860 I started on a comedy club

00:22:34.120 and I'd just come from working

00:22:36.940 for the Crown Prosecution Service.

00:22:38.800 So my head was full of psychology,

00:22:40.200 but I'm doing door work.

00:22:41.380 So I'm watching the comedians

00:22:43.280 go up on stage

00:22:44.160 and watching what they do.

00:22:45.800 It's narcissism in action.

00:22:47.760 So in terms of

00:22:48.940 a PTSD trauma response,

00:22:52.340 you have fight,

00:22:53.360 flight,

00:22:54.080 thorn and freeze. 0.94

00:22:55.260 So a narcissist

00:22:56.000 is stuck between fight,

00:22:57.600 which is they bully people

00:22:58.800 to get what they want,

00:22:59.580 and thawning,

00:23:00.360 which is you give people

00:23:01.260 what they want

00:23:01.760 to get what you want.

00:23:03.520 Stand-up comedy

00:23:04.220 is a balance of fight and thorn.

00:23:06.920 So you're actually

00:23:08.480 bullying laughs

00:23:09.480 out of the crowd,

00:23:10.560 but you're giving them

00:23:11.400 what they want.

00:23:12.520 And the best stand-up comics,

00:23:14.580 I don't know,

00:23:14.900 like for me,

00:23:15.940 it would be like a Louis CK

00:23:16.960 or a Richard Pryor.

00:23:18.300 At that level,

00:23:19.220 that's high level narcissism.

00:23:21.620 When they're really good,

00:23:23.180 narcissists can be hilariously funny

00:23:24.840 because they're tuned into

00:23:26.660 all your pressure points.

00:23:28.020 Like,

00:23:28.160 oh,

00:23:28.320 he liked that.

00:23:28.920 He thought that was funny.

00:23:30.100 You know where you get

00:23:30.660 a comedian,

00:23:31.780 they're almost like

00:23:32.320 a good boxer.

00:23:32.960 They hit you with,

00:23:33.620 they hit the crowd

00:23:34.280 with one joke

00:23:35.060 and then they know,

00:23:36.200 I'll go here,

00:23:36.940 I'll go,

00:23:37.260 okay, 0.97

00:23:37.560 liver shot, 0.65

00:23:38.160 uppercut.

00:23:38.600 And the crowd is just like,

00:23:40.160 okay,

00:23:40.480 stop,

00:23:40.960 you know,

00:23:41.200 tears rolling.

00:23:42.520 That's,

00:23:42.940 that's a really high level narcissist.

00:23:44.620 I'm not saying stand-up comics

00:23:45.640 roll narcissists,

00:23:47.060 but there is, 0.85

00:23:48.280 you need to understand

00:23:49.120 that world

00:23:49.680 to operate in it,

00:23:50.660 for sure,

00:23:51.340 for sure.

00:23:53.300 Hey,

00:23:53.780 Constantine,

00:23:54.620 do you like Christmas?

00:23:56.320 No.

00:23:56.980 In USSR,

00:23:57.780 we cancelled Christmas

00:23:58.780 and we had Lenin Fest instead.

00:24:00.720 What's that?

00:24:01.160 We celebrated glorious leader

00:24:03.140 and rewrote story of Jesus

00:24:04.740 to make it better.

00:24:06.060 Really?

00:24:06.720 Yes.

00:24:07.260 In our story,

00:24:08.060 three wise men were killed

00:24:09.220 and gifts meant for Jesus

00:24:10.640 redistributed to glorious workers

00:24:12.680 of the Soviet Union.

00:24:14.140 Jesus was put on gulag

00:24:15.500 for having wrong opinion.

00:24:17.020 As we call it in Russia,

00:24:18.300 happy ending.

00:24:19.580 Right.

00:24:20.500 Well,

00:24:20.780 if you do want to celebrate

00:24:22.100 the festive season,

00:24:23.280 then there's only one way

00:24:24.460 to do it.

00:24:25.400 Grab yourself a ticket

00:24:26.460 to our final live show

00:24:28.040 of the year

00:24:29.060 at the Leicester Square Theatre

00:24:30.740 on Saturday,

00:24:32.000 December the 11th.

00:24:33.460 Yes,

00:24:33.980 it is discussion

00:24:34.800 with one of our favorite guests,

00:24:36.700 Aisha Akambi.

00:24:38.120 She's almost as good philosopher

00:24:39.880 as Vladimir Lenin.

00:24:41.040 Yeah,

00:24:42.260 exactly.

00:24:43.540 Our two previous shows

00:24:45.060 sold out completely

00:24:46.340 and this one will as well.

00:24:48.640 Grab your ticket now

00:24:49.880 before it's too late.

00:24:51.520 Click on link below.

00:24:53.080 During interval,

00:24:53.980 there will be special entertainment.

00:24:55.840 I will ride bare

00:24:56.940 with my shirt off.

00:24:58.240 I didn't realize

00:24:58.980 we were going

00:24:59.440 for that demographic, mate.

00:25:01.220 Oh, yes, we are.

00:25:02.480 X.

00:25:03.700 I imagine,

00:25:04.920 broadly speaking,

00:25:06.140 not just stand-up

00:25:07.140 but other performing arts.

00:25:08.780 100%.

00:25:09.220 That's why you get,

00:25:10.700 I imagine,

00:25:11.540 statistically speaking,

00:25:12.640 probably a higher percentage

00:25:13.940 of,

00:25:15.060 to use a technical term,

00:25:16.380 wrong-uns

00:25:16.840 in those industries, right?

00:25:19.000 For sure.

00:25:19.080 Because these are people

00:25:19.680 who are operating

00:25:20.800 on that model.

00:25:21.640 Martial arts is one.

00:25:22.620 Martial arts instructors,

00:25:23.780 huge amounts of narcissism

00:25:25.400 in martial arts.

00:25:26.300 A really disproportionate

00:25:27.420 representation.

00:25:28.240 Hmm, that's really,

00:25:29.500 well, I imagine that's

00:25:30.400 because first it's visually

00:25:31.640 you're going to be,

00:25:32.460 you look good

00:25:33.140 and also you have power to.

00:25:35.340 That's what it is.

00:25:36.120 To bully and whatever other people.

00:25:37.640 It does the job.

00:25:38.100 It does the job perfectly.

00:25:39.420 But there's a difference

00:25:40.400 between male narcissism

00:25:41.780 and female narcissism, 1.00

00:25:42.980 aren't there?

00:25:43.200 And they manifest differently.

00:25:44.880 They do manifest differently.

00:25:47.100 I just found out recently

00:25:48.700 from a guy I work with

00:25:50.060 called Sam Vaknin,

00:25:50.960 the clinical statistics

00:25:52.800 now indicate

00:25:53.600 there's as many female narcissists 1.00

00:25:55.320 as males

00:25:55.720 for the first time ever.

00:25:56.740 It manifests differently

00:25:59.120 only because of power.

00:26:00.800 So whatever you can do,

00:26:02.340 you will do.

00:26:02.900 So if my power is

00:26:03.880 I'm bigger than you,

00:26:05.060 I can pick up a rock 1.00

00:26:05.740 and hit you with it, 0.99

00:26:06.360 I'll do that. 0.98

00:26:07.200 If my power was

00:26:08.300 I'm sexy

00:26:08.940 so I can seduce people

00:26:10.360 and bend their will that way,

00:26:12.000 it's almost incidental.

00:26:13.840 But yes, it does.

00:26:14.860 It does.

00:26:15.340 The behaviors manifest differently

00:26:16.780 but the core,

00:26:18.000 the clockwork,

00:26:18.800 the mechanics

00:26:19.240 is the same.

00:26:20.140 And how do you know,

00:26:21.240 you mentioned relationships

00:26:22.240 which I imagine

00:26:23.440 is where

00:26:24.040 this is really

00:26:25.240 like a big issue

00:26:26.320 because

00:26:26.780 in normal life

00:26:27.980 you can distance yourself

00:26:28.940 from people like that,

00:26:29.980 you can choose a different job,

00:26:31.300 whatever.

00:26:31.600 But once you're in a relationship,

00:26:33.100 particularly when you didn't know

00:26:34.000 what you were getting into necessarily,

00:26:35.840 how do you know

00:26:37.400 that you are dealing

00:26:38.820 with someone

00:26:39.300 who's full-blown

00:26:40.200 NPD?

00:26:42.100 Well,

00:26:42.880 you know,

00:26:43.440 you can put a YouTube video out

00:26:45.180 saying how to know

00:26:46.060 if you're dealing

00:26:46.520 with somebody who's NPD

00:26:47.440 and you're guaranteed

00:26:48.280 to get like half a million views

00:26:49.700 in a year

00:26:50.080 because everybody's asking

00:26:50.980 that question.

00:26:52.000 How do we know?

00:26:54.460 Because if you're in love

00:26:55.520 with somebody

00:26:56.120 and you start to realize

00:26:57.660 there's something up

00:26:58.280 and you think it could be narcissism,

00:27:00.060 it's pretty bleak.

00:27:02.140 And so you hope

00:27:02.940 that they're just traumatized.

00:27:04.120 You hope they just have PTSD

00:27:05.320 and they're having bad days

00:27:06.360 because if it's NPD,

00:27:08.600 there's really no hope.

00:27:11.200 What I would say,

00:27:12.040 I would be looking for

00:27:13.380 patterns of exploitativeness

00:27:15.580 and entitlement

00:27:16.820 that play out

00:27:17.980 across context

00:27:19.320 and across time

00:27:20.140 even when you've told them

00:27:21.820 to stop.

00:27:22.840 So if it seems as though

00:27:24.260 they'll just say,

00:27:24.980 yes, yes, yes,

00:27:25.460 I'll stop,

00:27:25.980 I'll go to therapy,

00:27:26.680 I'll do this,

00:27:27.200 I'll do that

00:27:27.620 and do the other

00:27:28.200 and they're not stopping

00:27:29.580 and they keep going

00:27:30.980 and you've told them it hurts

00:27:32.420 and they're still doing it,

00:27:34.160 it's not great

00:27:34.940 because even if they don't have NPD, 0.99

00:27:36.940 they are an arsehole. 0.99

00:27:39.580 Which is just as good a reason 1.00

00:27:41.340 to split up with somebody

00:27:42.460 as anything else.

00:27:43.380 You don't need

00:27:44.140 the clinical diagnosis.

00:27:45.180 These are boundaries,

00:27:48.120 aren't they?

00:27:48.440 I would say like

00:27:48.920 once you've told somebody

00:27:49.980 three or four times,

00:27:50.960 like that thing that you're doing,

00:27:52.180 it really hurts me.

00:27:53.680 You tell me that you love me

00:27:54.760 but you're still doing it.

00:27:56.380 Three, four,

00:27:57.220 would you give them a fifth chance?

00:27:58.440 Maybe you would.

00:27:59.680 Unless they've just been through

00:28:01.500 some major trauma in their lives

00:28:02.980 that justifies it.

00:28:04.500 I would say that's,

00:28:05.460 you're either looking at somebody

00:28:07.200 who is NPD

00:28:07.840 or their idea of what it is

00:28:10.040 to act within a relationship

00:28:11.440 that's loving and intimate

00:28:12.540 is so hard

00:28:13.700 because somebody can just act narcissistically

00:28:15.480 and it can be context specific.

00:28:17.760 Many people in this culture

00:28:18.940 have very narcissistic defense mechanisms

00:28:21.320 around love and dating.

00:28:23.700 How do you mean?

00:28:26.860 Well, we're in a tricky place

00:28:29.180 as far as the genders go right now 0.99

00:28:30.680 and it's a bit of a battleground out there.

00:28:33.620 I know you're both in happy relationships

00:28:35.820 but presumably before that you were dating.

00:28:38.120 I never was.

00:28:38.920 You were not?

00:28:39.600 First one, bam, job done.

00:28:41.080 Really?

00:28:41.480 Good for you.

00:28:42.700 18 years old, done.

00:28:44.540 Good for you.

00:28:45.440 You saved yourself a lot of trouble.

00:28:47.400 I imagine so, yeah.

00:28:48.640 It's brutal.

00:28:49.640 It's really brutal

00:28:50.740 and it's gotten noticeably worse

00:28:54.400 year on year of the last 20 years

00:28:56.700 but particularly in the last five years.

00:28:58.300 It's become very savage.

00:28:59.580 It's a battleground.

00:29:00.100 As the genders, as the sexes split apart 0.71

00:29:03.820 and polarize, the view of each other

00:29:06.380 has gotten darker and darker.

00:29:07.760 Talked about shadow integration before

00:29:09.580 and shadow possession.

00:29:11.300 As we become more shadow possessed,

00:29:13.660 we engage in something called

00:29:14.800 projective identification

00:29:15.800 so you just start seeing the other person

00:29:17.820 as awful even if they're not.

00:29:19.500 You have two people who are ruined,

00:29:22.720 spoiled by consumer capitalism,

00:29:24.640 trying to consume each other narcissistically

00:29:27.320 whilst using projective identification

00:29:29.040 to see the worst elements

00:29:30.300 that they have onto the other.

00:29:32.180 It's a nightmare. 0.72

00:29:33.100 Put some meat on that skeleton.

00:29:34.700 What do you mean

00:29:35.340 when you say it's a battleground

00:29:36.900 and all of that?

00:29:38.260 What are you talking about?

00:29:39.680 Are you talking about men and women

00:29:41.300 starting to be more antagonistic?

00:29:44.920 Yes, men and women being more antagonistic 0.87

00:29:47.040 but to be fair, I have heard that in the gay scene

00:29:51.620 it's the same thing.

00:29:52.600 So as far as love and intimacy goes,

00:29:55.080 we've sort of lost a grip

00:29:57.180 on what it is to be in a relationship

00:29:59.100 and the battleground is

00:30:01.860 I'm going to try and take as much.

00:30:05.440 So we have a room full of people,

00:30:06.880 a hundred people

00:30:07.460 and they're all trying to date each other

00:30:09.000 but everybody's running a program

00:30:10.740 that says I'm going to take as much from you

00:30:12.220 as I possibly can

00:30:13.100 and I know you're going to hurt me

00:30:14.240 because everybody behind me has hurt me.

00:30:15.640 I'm just waiting for when.

00:30:17.340 So people are coming in armoured

00:30:18.960 and they're coming in with weapons drawn

00:30:20.940 assuming it's going to be awful.

00:30:23.040 That's where the projective identification comes in.

00:30:25.800 Every single guy I've ever been with 1.00

00:30:27.680 has treated me like shit. 1.00

00:30:28.960 You're a guy. 1.00

00:30:30.080 All the data I have indicates 1.00

00:30:31.540 you're going to treat me like shit. 1.00

00:30:33.740 So the hostility levels start quite high. 1.00

00:30:36.720 It's defensive.

00:30:38.220 Those defenses are narcissistic typically.

00:30:41.420 So it just gets nasty

00:30:44.640 really, really quickly.

00:30:45.640 So it's quite hostile.

00:30:47.260 So if you meet somebody randomly

00:30:48.760 say I meet a girl

00:30:51.440 and I meet her randomly

00:30:52.240 and there's no intent there

00:30:54.280 and we're just working together or something

00:30:56.540 it'll be fine.

00:30:57.980 But as soon as it's in a dating context

00:31:00.360 or she gets a sense that

00:31:01.640 there could be the potential

00:31:03.200 for a relationship

00:31:04.460 then the defenses go up

00:31:05.960 and it gets hostile

00:31:06.600 and it gets aggressive quickly.

00:31:08.500 So the way people are treating each other now

00:31:10.260 is with contempt quite honestly.

00:31:13.980 And does that factor in as well

00:31:15.320 the social media element?

00:31:16.800 Like we see people as avatars.

00:31:18.260 We don't see them as human beings anymore.

00:31:19.860 A hundred percent.

00:31:20.820 A hundred percent.

00:31:21.420 The dehumanization

00:31:22.980 that's operating broad scale

00:31:25.560 is having an awful effect

00:31:27.260 on the way people interact with each other.

00:31:29.260 Because as you've just said

00:31:31.000 if I'm only dealing with an avatar

00:31:32.740 that avatar is either going to give me what I want

00:31:35.220 or they're not.

00:31:36.400 And if they don't

00:31:37.180 they're a defective avatar.

00:31:39.020 They're an iPhone that doesn't work properly

00:31:40.600 or an app that needs updating.

00:31:42.280 And I'm very cross

00:31:43.600 and I'm very frustrated

00:31:44.480 that it's not giving me what I want.

00:31:46.240 Sad, but that's what we're

00:31:48.540 our brains have been entrained

00:31:51.020 to think about life

00:31:52.180 and relationships and people

00:31:53.740 in a highly narcissistic way.

00:31:56.300 And we're talking about a lack of empathy.

00:31:59.460 At what point does this veer

00:32:00.780 into sociopathic territory?

00:32:03.620 We're there.

00:32:04.780 I mean, yeah, I mean,

00:32:06.680 we're already there.

00:32:08.240 So if we wanted to say psychopathy

00:32:10.420 or the way the DSM defines it

00:32:12.760 as antisocial personality disorder

00:32:14.620 when I'm saying narcissism

00:32:16.460 really we're talking about narcissistic psychopathy.

00:32:19.920 It's goal orientated.

00:32:21.940 It has these megalomaniacal qualities to it.

00:32:27.200 There can be only one.

00:32:28.280 There are winners and losers in this game

00:32:29.780 and I'm going to be the winner.

00:32:31.700 So yeah, there is already psychopathic elements

00:32:33.760 to this kind of narcissism.

00:32:35.000 We're way beyond vanity and greed now.

00:32:38.940 We're into something that's much more

00:32:40.640 it's got some real aggression behind it.

00:32:44.860 It's got some real toxicity behind it.

00:32:46.500 And where's it coming from, Richard?

00:32:49.700 Well, we lost...

00:32:50.360 Why has it changed is what I'm getting at.

00:32:51.860 Why has it got worse?

00:32:53.080 We let go of God.

00:32:54.760 That was our mistake.

00:32:56.420 We should have listened to Dostoevsky and Nietzsche 0.61

00:32:58.820 back in the 1880s.

00:33:01.280 They both wrote very, very similar things about it

00:33:04.040 which is we're losing God.

00:33:05.800 And if we lose, without wanting to lose your audience,

00:33:10.360 when I say God...

00:33:11.180 Lose our audience by all means. 1.00

00:33:12.460 Fuck them. 1.00

00:33:14.000 I'm a narcissist. 1.00

00:33:15.420 Right, not like that, mate.

00:33:19.160 So when I say God in this context,

00:33:22.940 I'm an atheist.

00:33:24.440 I can't access that.

00:33:26.040 I can't naively believe in God.

00:33:27.600 But when we had God,

00:33:31.620 there was somebody or something

00:33:33.200 that was at the top of everything.

00:33:34.880 And when we removed that,

00:33:36.320 Dostoevsky and Nietzsche said,

00:33:37.860 this is a bit dangerous

00:33:38.720 because if we don't have that,

00:33:40.500 we will put ourselves there.

00:33:43.200 And if we do that,

00:33:44.120 we kind of have to worship ourselves.

00:33:46.740 And then that's the famous...

00:33:48.280 When you look into the abyss,

00:33:49.220 the abyss also looks back into you.

00:33:51.380 The God is dead.

00:33:52.380 And what festivals will we have to create

00:33:56.180 to justify our own sin?

00:33:58.420 These are the festivals.

00:33:59.540 These are the celebrations.

00:34:01.080 Instagram, Facebook.

00:34:02.220 These are the festivals and celebrations

00:34:03.400 that we have to tell ourselves,

00:34:05.020 we're amazing.

00:34:05.840 We're awesome.

00:34:06.500 We can do whatever we want

00:34:07.680 because mummy and daddy,

00:34:09.760 God, goddess are not around anymore. 0.99

00:34:11.540 But it's guilt laden.

00:34:13.520 It's extremely guilty.

00:34:15.340 And without that reverence

00:34:16.940 for something higher than...

00:34:18.040 It sounds silly even saying the word reverence.

00:34:19.800 It's so out of date.

00:34:20.520 If we don't have reverence for something higher,

00:34:23.360 there's only us.

00:34:24.700 What does that create?

00:34:26.020 Self-loathing.

00:34:26.860 This is a Dostoevsky point as well.

00:34:28.660 But if I hate me, 0.96

00:34:29.940 I have to hate you 0.88

00:34:30.820 because you're also me. 1.00

00:34:32.260 I am piece of shit. 1.00

00:34:33.220 You must be piece of shit. 1.00

00:34:35.340 That's very offensive. 1.00

00:34:36.600 That's quite racist.

00:34:39.640 I'm just kidding, mate. 0.89

00:34:40.800 Thankfully, Russians seem not to care one job. 1.00

00:34:43.320 Could not give a shit. 0.99

00:34:46.160 So once you've got to that point 0.99

00:34:48.500 and there's just mutual contempt,

00:34:50.520 then there is only narcissism left.

00:34:52.820 We only have... 0.81

00:34:53.760 And that's wretched.

00:34:55.180 So I don't even have...

00:34:56.640 I don't even have you.

00:34:57.700 I have me.

00:34:58.860 Ugh.

00:34:59.680 We're not evolved for that.

00:35:01.260 We are a religious species.

00:35:02.820 We always have been.

00:35:04.260 I'm not saying, like,

00:35:05.520 bring back a particular religion 0.98

00:35:07.340 because we can't do that.

00:35:08.760 Toothpaste is already out the tube.

00:35:10.560 But we have to have something.

00:35:12.100 We have to have some kind of a philosophy

00:35:13.720 or a psychology

00:35:14.560 that permits us to say,

00:35:16.900 I didn't create life.

00:35:18.360 I didn't create myself.

00:35:19.940 I didn't create you.

00:35:20.920 I didn't create that which is good.

00:35:22.720 There is something beyond me.

00:35:23.880 And at least then I can have a tiny soupçon of humility

00:35:27.180 and not be as arrogant

00:35:28.600 and as entitled as I otherwise would be.

00:35:30.360 It gives you a measure of peace as well.

00:35:31.820 It's interesting you're talking about all this stuff.

00:35:33.480 It's like none of the three...

00:35:35.460 Francis, myself, or Anton,

00:35:36.820 none of us are believers,

00:35:37.660 but we've started saying grace before every meal.

00:35:40.740 Right.

00:35:41.500 Just because it's a moment of whatever.

00:35:46.960 I don't have the language.

00:35:48.900 Maybe reverence is the right word.

00:35:50.440 And I know what you mean

00:35:52.300 when you are at the top of that pantheon.

00:36:00.120 That's not a healthy place.

00:36:02.380 And there's something...

00:36:03.800 I think we're desperately unhappy there.

00:36:06.100 We know we don't belong there.

00:36:07.900 And there's something you'd sort of think,

00:36:09.860 well, we won then.

00:36:10.800 We won.

00:36:11.340 We finally got there.

00:36:12.400 And in so many ways,

00:36:13.700 human beings are the victim of their own success 0.98

00:36:15.600 because another element of this,

00:36:17.300 aside from losing God,

00:36:18.640 is consumer capitalism.

00:36:20.300 This particular brand of capitalism,

00:36:22.040 not an anti-capitalist,

00:36:23.200 but the things that we allow companies to do

00:36:26.640 in the name of generating profit are obscene.

00:36:30.540 You know, it's outrageous

00:36:31.880 what we let people look at,

00:36:33.140 you know, these tech giants,

00:36:34.720 what they're doing to the minds of children.

00:36:36.500 It's an obscenity.

00:36:38.180 That also is a problem

00:36:39.560 because you're so hyper-stimulated

00:36:41.720 and so constantly messaged to and marketed to

00:36:44.260 that you're less than, 0.96

00:36:45.460 you're deficient,

00:36:46.480 you need these trainers,

00:36:47.680 you need this drug in order to live.

00:36:50.240 And we are consumers then.

00:36:52.220 So we are godless and we're consumers.

00:36:54.960 That's wretched.

00:36:55.900 That's not what we're evolved to be.

00:36:57.720 We're not evolved to be this thing.

00:37:00.080 So I always think it's funny

00:37:01.880 for like hundreds of thousands of years,

00:37:04.140 we would have been outside freezing,

00:37:07.200 you know, being chased by saber-toothed tigers,

00:37:08.920 dreaming one day of the cities of lights,

00:37:11.180 where there'll be food everywhere

00:37:12.360 and warmth and shelter everywhere.

00:37:13.820 We get here and we're like, 0.99

00:37:14.580 oh, this is shit. 0.99

00:37:16.060 I'm sad. 1.00

00:37:17.100 I'm depressed.

00:37:19.200 It always reminds me of the story of George Best,

00:37:21.600 the footballer.

00:37:22.240 I don't know if you're into football,

00:37:23.740 but when he was 23 years old,

00:37:25.320 he won the European Cup.

00:37:27.020 He was the man of the match.

00:37:29.040 He was, you know,

00:37:30.220 he was at the peak of his fame,

00:37:31.680 young, handsome guy.

00:37:33.420 And he said that after winning the match

00:37:35.360 and winning the Cup,

00:37:37.020 which was the highest accolade

00:37:38.020 a footballer could achieve,

00:37:38.980 he went back into the showers

00:37:40.700 and when he was in the showers,

00:37:41.860 he said,

00:37:42.740 I never felt more empty.

00:37:44.100 And that's when I knew it was over.

00:37:45.680 These things that we worship,

00:37:47.740 whether it's fame, a million,

00:37:49.380 you know,

00:37:49.920 being a YouTuber,

00:37:51.260 stand-up comedian,

00:37:52.460 eventually when the applause dies down,

00:37:55.140 you're just left with yourself.

00:37:56.780 Yeah, yeah.

00:37:57.680 Didn't realise you felt that way, mate.

00:38:00.420 I'm actually quite enjoying it,

00:38:01.820 to be honest.

00:38:02.240 We will have a hug after you.

00:38:03.920 No, I hear you 100%

00:38:05.820 and I've found myself saying to people

00:38:07.860 more and more,

00:38:09.360 if you can't sit in a room on your own,

00:38:11.940 whether you're a billionaire

00:38:12.600 or you're famous or whatever, 1.00

00:38:14.040 you're wretched. 0.99

00:38:14.860 That's wretched. 1.00

00:38:15.460 You can't just sit in peace on your own

00:38:17.080 and just think or just read a book.

00:38:19.480 And how many people can now?

00:38:21.840 Everybody's so agitated and desperate

00:38:23.600 and the locus of control for everything

00:38:25.520 and the locus of self-perception

00:38:26.740 is so externalised.

00:38:28.560 That's what marketing does. 0.55

00:38:29.880 That's what propaganda does.

00:38:31.100 That's what ideology does.

00:38:32.240 It takes you away from your authentic self

00:38:35.700 into a false self

00:38:37.260 where you've tried to live and function as an avatar.

00:38:40.720 And of course, it's misery-inducing.

00:38:43.480 It's anti-life.

00:38:44.760 We're living in, I believe,

00:38:46.180 an anti-life ideology at the moment.

00:38:48.980 So, what can you do as an individual in that situation?

00:38:54.620 Despair.

00:38:56.480 Really despair.

00:38:57.200 He's been reading a lot of Dostoevsky, man.

00:38:59.480 That Russian literature will get to you. 0.91

00:39:02.060 Too much Russian literature will rot your brain.

00:39:05.240 It will tell you the very sad truth about life.

00:39:07.740 And you will never be happy again.

00:39:10.080 Drink vodka, listen to sad Russian folk music and be done.

00:39:13.760 It was Kierkegaard with despair, which was,

00:39:17.900 and I only learnt this recently,

00:39:19.660 it's healthy to despair

00:39:20.940 because we stay stuck in an ideological loop

00:39:24.020 if we refuse to despair.

00:39:25.780 So, if you say, no, it's okay, it's okay,

00:39:27.560 we're winning the game.

00:39:29.080 Instagram is cool and, I don't know,

00:39:31.080 TikTok is great.

00:39:32.080 Let's learn a TikTok dance and post it

00:39:33.700 and get a million views.

00:39:35.060 You're still stuck in the ideological loop.

00:39:37.520 And Kierkegaard was right.

00:39:38.640 You should despair. 1.00

00:39:39.920 If it sucks, you should say it sucks. 0.99

00:39:42.420 But that's kind of a social taboo for us. 0.99

00:39:44.680 Like, if something is really awful

00:39:46.180 and you want to say, this is really awful,

00:39:48.560 it's a really fast way to become a pariah.

00:39:50.360 It's a really fast way to get,

00:39:51.880 even, like, criticism.

00:39:53.600 You guys lived it.

00:39:54.940 You were like, excuse me,

00:39:56.040 can we just politely say

00:39:57.080 that some of this doesn't make much sense?

00:39:59.520 Big pushback for that.

00:40:00.860 Big punishment for that.

00:40:02.360 It's not, certainly in the beginning,

00:40:04.360 it's not a rewarding experience

00:40:05.760 until you find the others

00:40:06.780 and realise there's support there.

00:40:08.260 It's a lonely place to be in.

00:40:09.980 But despair is key.

00:40:11.500 If we don't despair, we can't grieve.

00:40:15.000 Despair is essential to having

00:40:16.740 an honest, authentic interaction with reality. 0.97

00:40:19.280 Some parts of life suck.

00:40:21.280 We know this. 0.78

00:40:21.880 The Vedic scriptures were teaching us this.

00:40:24.420 6,000 years ago, all of life is suffering.

00:40:27.140 The Gnostics, the same thing. 0.99

00:40:28.540 This world is not perfect.

00:40:29.860 It's not supposed to be.

00:40:31.700 So the horror, I think, that we live in now

00:40:33.680 is, Zizek has pointed it out,

00:40:36.980 is it's called the fetishist split. 0.99

00:40:40.200 So we know that it sucks 0.93

00:40:41.960 and yet we have to pretend that it does not 0.97

00:40:44.740 and we have to stick a smiling face on it.

00:40:47.520 That's torture.

00:40:48.700 You should be able to say,

00:40:50.200 no, this isn't very good.

00:40:50.960 I don't like this.

00:40:52.060 This is not what I signed up for

00:40:53.300 and I'd like it to stop.

00:40:54.840 But we've sort of been coerced

00:40:56.500 into a position where we feel like

00:40:57.520 we can do everything else,

00:40:59.260 but not that.

00:41:00.600 So despair.

00:41:01.680 I know what you mean about that.

00:41:03.180 Sorry, just a quick comment.

00:41:05.360 Because I guess it's that thing of like

00:41:08.200 the first step to solving the problem

00:41:09.620 is admitting you have one.

00:41:10.900 And if you admit you have a problem,

00:41:12.600 it's quite right to be

00:41:14.760 at least whatever by that.

00:41:17.860 Yeah, discontented.

00:41:19.280 Yeah, that makes sense.

00:41:21.360 No, and I was going to talk to you about

00:41:23.980 not only do we feel despair,

00:41:26.580 not only are we forced

00:41:28.120 to put on this fake smile

00:41:29.980 and project this happy life,

00:41:31.440 but because of social media, Instagram,

00:41:33.740 that's what everybody does.

00:41:35.360 So to use a terminology of the time,

00:41:37.880 we're all being gaslit.

00:41:39.480 Yeah, yeah.

00:41:40.080 Into thinking that everybody's having

00:41:41.840 this great life apart from us.

00:41:43.720 And that, Zizek would say,

00:41:45.880 that is ideology at its purest.

00:41:48.480 So we're feeding,

00:41:50.680 we're being force-fed the ideology

00:41:52.040 and then we force-feed it back to each other.

00:41:54.080 Because we're not just being told

00:41:55.300 what to desire,

00:41:57.220 our ability to desire is being coerced.

00:42:00.040 So it's not just what to desire,

00:42:01.860 it's the way in which you desire it

00:42:03.560 needs to be ideologically pure as well.

00:42:05.500 So yeah, we're all playing 1.00

00:42:06.480 the same stupid game for who? 1.00

00:42:09.320 And it's this double bind. 1.00

00:42:10.920 It's been fed back into itself,

00:42:12.260 plugged back into itself.

00:42:13.220 We're all doing it for somebody else,

00:42:14.920 but we all know perfectly well it isn't true.

00:42:17.500 It's nightmarish.

00:42:18.680 And the way out is,

00:42:20.200 yeah, you want to say it's,

00:42:21.300 you've got to,

00:42:21.620 somebody's got to go,

00:42:22.420 hang on, 0.99

00:42:24.040 this sucks. 0.99

00:42:25.720 This is wrong. 0.99

00:42:26.580 Let's just,

00:42:27.720 yeah, I need to despair.

00:42:29.240 And really despair.

00:42:30.760 Despair is grief.

00:42:31.780 You go, wow, what have we lost? 1.00

00:42:33.760 Fucking hell, we lost God. 1.00

00:42:35.140 We lost community. 1.00

00:42:36.060 We lost each other.

00:42:37.100 Look at our children.

00:42:38.060 Look at the state the world is in.

00:42:39.660 This is horrifying.

00:42:40.680 Cry, weep, roll on the floor. 1.00

00:42:43.940 Piss yourself if you like. 0.98

00:42:45.240 I won't judge you.

00:42:46.540 But then the morning after,

00:42:49.300 you say, okay,

00:42:50.180 now what?

00:42:51.500 Now I've accepted it's wrong.

00:42:53.240 Now what?

00:42:53.800 That's where we need to get to.

00:42:55.740 And so I'm an accelerationist in that regard.

00:42:58.060 But we're also incentivized not to do that.

00:43:01.500 We're incentivized to carry on.

00:43:04.640 Because the more you carry on,

00:43:05.860 the more followers you have.

00:43:06.980 The more followers you have,

00:43:08.220 the more successful you are.

00:43:09.320 And the more successful you are in this world,

00:43:10.780 the more income you can generate,

00:43:12.140 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:43:13.200 And is this not capitalism?

00:43:15.220 So there's the capitalism of acquiring likes.

00:43:19.380 It's more,

00:43:20.260 I keep these bananas.

00:43:21.840 What are they?

00:43:22.540 They're little digital thumbs.

00:43:25.060 But our brains are so easily tricked.

00:43:27.480 We think that that's a real thing.

00:43:29.540 And so it's the acquisition of more

00:43:31.380 keeps you in the game.

00:43:33.560 To actually step out of the game

00:43:34.840 is a huge social taboo.

00:43:36.380 And it doesn't even need to be punished

00:43:38.060 or criminalized.

00:43:39.080 Our brains will reject it

00:43:40.760 because you'll be like,

00:43:41.320 well, everybody else is doing this.

00:43:43.200 Every other monkey in my troop is doing it.

00:43:45.480 Why am I going to leave the tribe?

00:43:46.880 That's extremely dangerous.

00:43:49.080 Your genetic,

00:43:49.620 I believe,

00:43:50.100 it's not proven.

00:43:51.480 I personally believe your genetics

00:43:52.860 will fight you

00:43:53.640 if you try and leave the tribe

00:43:54.680 because it's death.

00:43:56.080 Evolutionarily,

00:43:56.520 it's always been death.

00:43:57.160 Yeah, it's difficult.

00:43:58.060 So if you rebel

00:43:58.800 and like you were given your story

00:44:01.200 the other day

00:44:01.860 and these emotional highs and lows

00:44:03.740 and you've got to go off in a room

00:44:04.800 and cry,

00:44:06.380 I think that's your DNA saying,

00:44:08.420 stop.

00:44:09.320 It's safe over there. 1.00

00:44:10.500 Don't fucking do this. 0.99

00:44:12.840 It's a hell of a fight. 0.99

00:44:14.080 It's a hell of a fight.

00:44:14.780 It is.

00:44:15.180 But I also think

00:44:16.000 there's also a heroic thing

00:44:18.080 in human beings.

00:44:20.220 And it is narcissism.

00:44:21.600 It's narcissistic to think

00:44:22.620 you're the person

00:44:23.480 who's going to go

00:44:24.100 and change the world.

00:44:24.900 But I do think

00:44:25.520 there's a heroic instinct in us as well

00:44:27.300 which says,

00:44:28.260 I know what's going on here.

00:44:31.700 Yeah. 1.00

00:44:31.960 And just because all these other fucking monkeys 1.00

00:44:33.580 want to go along with it, 1.00

00:44:34.900 well, I'm not one of you.

00:44:36.180 Yeah.

00:44:36.580 I see what's happening

00:44:37.820 and I'm going to step out

00:44:38.940 and I'm going to say so

00:44:39.860 and I'll take the punishment.

00:44:41.280 Yes.

00:44:41.720 I'll take the punishment

00:44:42.600 because I know what the truth is here.

00:44:44.920 And the truth is,

00:44:45.620 this isn't working.

00:44:46.800 Yeah.

00:44:47.120 You can't have people running around

00:44:48.740 hashtag be kind

00:44:49.680 while they mob people into suicide.

00:44:51.620 Yeah.

00:44:51.860 Right.

00:44:52.200 That doesn't work.

00:44:53.360 Yeah.

00:44:53.580 So I think there's also

00:44:54.820 that side of it as well

00:44:56.200 which is people,

00:44:58.420 it's a small minority of people in society

00:45:00.280 but they're the ones

00:45:00.980 that have always made history.

00:45:02.560 You know what I mean?

00:45:03.380 A hundred percent.

00:45:04.260 I think the way you worded the question

00:45:06.320 before was like,

00:45:07.280 where have we gone wrong

00:45:08.180 and what we could do about it?

00:45:09.640 And we said,

00:45:10.780 you've got to bring back God

00:45:11.900 or at least some kind of reverence.

00:45:13.760 You have to despair

00:45:14.620 which means you have to be able

00:45:15.440 to tell the truth about what's going on

00:45:16.740 and then maybe you could have

00:45:17.920 a third thing there

00:45:18.660 which is courage.

00:45:19.980 And courage means

00:45:21.000 not the big flex of saying it

00:45:22.940 and getting the applause for it

00:45:24.520 but the willingness to get hurt. 1.00

00:45:26.200 The willingness to get fucked up. 0.99

00:45:27.500 That's courage. 0.99

00:45:28.400 If you know you're not going to get hurt,

00:45:29.600 that's not courage.

00:45:31.160 If you know you're going to lose your job,

00:45:32.440 if you know you're going to be kicked out

00:45:33.620 of the comedy community that you're in,

00:45:37.020 I don't know,

00:45:37.520 like for people who've not done this,

00:45:39.020 they don't know how that feels.

00:45:40.400 Maybe they don't know how that feels.

00:45:41.780 It's an awful feeling.

00:45:44.360 I have friends of yours,

00:45:45.400 people you've known for years,

00:45:46.420 people you've worked with,

00:45:47.620 shone you.

00:45:49.000 Because you're telling the truth

00:45:50.260 as you see it,

00:45:51.460 that's despair.

00:45:53.180 So you've already been through that one.

00:45:55.440 We have.

00:45:55.860 You know, there's a great scene.

00:45:56.860 Have you seen Hunger?

00:45:57.920 It's a film about Bobby Sands.

00:45:59.960 Yes, I have.

00:46:00.580 Yeah, yeah.

00:46:00.900 Do you remember there's this beautiful scene

00:46:02.440 in the middle of the movie

00:46:03.320 where the priest comes into the prison

00:46:05.800 and they're sitting

00:46:06.500 and Bobby Sands tell the story

00:46:09.060 of how when he was a kid,

00:46:10.080 they went on this field trip

00:46:11.120 and there was this deer

00:46:12.060 that had fallen in the river

00:46:14.200 and it was drowning

00:46:14.980 and he went over

00:46:16.400 and he knew what to do,

00:46:17.860 which is to finish it off

00:46:19.180 as it happened, right?

00:46:21.320 And he says,

00:46:22.320 I knew what I had to do

00:46:23.860 and I was willing to take the punishment.

00:46:26.320 Right.

00:46:26.580 And I remember that scene always

00:46:28.680 because when we started Trigonometry,

00:46:31.680 I just felt that the catastrophe

00:46:35.100 of where we're going as a culture

00:46:36.940 is worth risking

00:46:39.540 the little that we had at the time

00:46:42.700 to actually stand up against it

00:46:44.840 and say something.

00:46:46.300 And the reassuring thing for me is,

00:46:48.220 you know,

00:46:49.640 there's people out there

00:46:50.940 who are interested in hearing that.

00:46:53.060 There's people out there

00:46:53.820 who want to hear those conversations

00:46:55.240 and do something about it.

00:46:56.580 You know?

00:46:57.440 100%.

00:46:57.760 That scene that you're talking about,

00:46:59.200 isn't that like a one-shot scene

00:47:00.720 that goes on for like 15 minutes?

00:47:01.900 Yeah.

00:47:02.320 It's incredible.

00:47:03.400 It's really good.

00:47:03.840 It's amazing.

00:47:05.080 So you said the catastrophe.

00:47:07.940 I know that you're interviewing me.

00:47:09.240 Can I just ask you guys though,

00:47:10.220 how bad do you think

00:47:11.080 the catastrophe could be?

00:47:12.940 How bad do you think

00:47:14.180 a prospective catastrophe

00:47:15.800 could be in the scenario we're in?

00:47:17.360 Well, actually,

00:47:17.980 I've got a book.

00:47:19.220 No.

00:47:20.180 But I have written the book

00:47:22.020 which is coming out

00:47:22.700 in the middle of the next year

00:47:23.320 which is called

00:47:23.760 An Immigrant's Love Letter to the West.

00:47:25.400 Right.

00:47:25.580 And my thesis is

00:47:27.620 that the process

00:47:28.900 we are experiencing

00:47:29.860 is essentially

00:47:31.300 the destruction

00:47:32.700 of Western Enlightenment values.

00:47:36.840 And, you know,

00:47:38.860 the existential stuff

00:47:39.880 that we talked about earlier,

00:47:40.920 that's separate

00:47:41.840 and probably even more important.

00:47:43.620 But I just know

00:47:45.020 the way the world

00:47:45.660 actually works.

00:47:46.720 Right.

00:47:46.920 and people in the West

00:47:48.720 can have this

00:47:49.400 airy-fairy nonsense

00:47:50.600 about how equality

00:47:52.080 and diversity.

00:47:53.320 That's not how

00:47:53.940 the rest of the world works.

00:47:54.860 The rest of the world

00:47:55.440 works on a very simple basis.

00:47:56.620 If I'm stronger than you

00:47:57.560 then I'm going to take over you.

00:47:58.920 Right.

00:47:59.080 That's how it works.

00:47:59.820 So the moment

00:48:00.320 the West undermines itself,

00:48:01.900 there are plenty of people

00:48:02.980 waiting to fill that void,

00:48:05.380 that power void.

00:48:07.020 And China, 0.79

00:48:08.200 maybe Russia,

00:48:09.180 they'll come in

00:48:09.680 and if you think

00:48:10.340 racism is bad now,

00:48:12.300 what do you think

00:48:13.420 is going to happen?

00:48:13.720 They'll show you what it means.

00:48:14.600 Yeah.

00:48:15.060 They'll teach us what it means.

00:48:16.360 That's my view.

00:48:17.560 What about you, Francis?

00:48:19.460 From my background

00:48:20.360 as being a teacher,

00:48:21.240 the thing that I despair

00:48:22.100 about the most

00:48:22.720 is what we're doing

00:48:23.300 to our children,

00:48:24.700 what we're doing to our kids.

00:48:25.840 You see with transgender ideology, 1.00

00:48:27.940 the fact that we give

00:48:28.980 puberty blockers

00:48:29.900 to eight-year-olds,

00:48:30.780 six-year-olds,

00:48:31.840 and somehow we think

00:48:32.960 that this is progressive

00:48:33.840 and kind is an abomination. 0.91

00:48:35.980 It's child abuse.

00:48:38.000 And the reason that

00:48:40.680 we're not allowed 0.81

00:48:41.480 to have sex with children 0.98

00:48:42.400 is because children 0.99

00:48:43.320 can't consent.

00:48:44.380 It's that simple.

00:48:46.120 And they can't consent

00:48:47.180 to take puberty blockers

00:48:48.600 because they have

00:48:49.620 no concept of consequences.

00:48:51.280 That is a psychological fact.

00:48:53.720 The fact that we hand them

00:48:55.480 social media,

00:48:57.140 smartphones from the age of 10,

00:48:58.520 11,

00:48:59.200 is abuse as well

00:49:00.200 because you are just

00:49:01.520 essentially

00:49:02.420 moulding their brains

00:49:04.600 in the most unhealthy way possible.

00:49:06.480 You're showing them

00:49:06.940 the most unhealthy images possible.

00:49:09.200 What Instagram does

00:49:10.140 to young girls

00:49:10.880 and to young women.

00:49:11.620 I think it's the tip

00:49:13.500 of the iceberg.

00:49:14.220 We're going to see

00:49:14.920 an absolute slew

00:49:16.520 of girls

00:49:17.080 who have a variety

00:49:19.140 of body dysmorphia,

00:49:20.820 anorexia,

00:49:21.640 et cetera,

00:49:22.220 et cetera.

00:49:23.020 The fact that Instagram

00:49:24.020 are trying to create

00:49:25.440 an Instagram for kids,

00:49:26.620 have you heard about this?

00:49:27.560 No, I haven't.

00:49:28.200 They're trying to create

00:49:29.220 a specific Instagram

00:49:30.300 for kids.

00:49:32.020 It's just vile

00:49:33.000 and we're going to reap

00:49:33.880 the rewards.

00:49:34.460 And I find it sad

00:49:36.620 because it's not their fault

00:49:38.280 and we're going to have

00:49:39.580 a generation

00:49:40.180 that is stunted

00:49:40.980 as a result.

00:49:42.000 A hundred percent, yeah.

00:49:43.040 What do you think?

00:49:44.700 Gulags and genocide.

00:49:46.220 We're on the road to it

00:49:47.200 and people laugh.

00:49:48.720 They say,

00:49:48.980 I'm not here.

00:49:50.200 I'm like,

00:49:50.540 what do you think?

00:49:51.100 We're special?

00:49:52.080 You think historically 0.99

00:49:52.940 we're fucking unique? 0.98

00:49:54.900 I know you've had 0.98

00:49:55.600 Douglas Murray on a few times

00:49:56.820 but I remember

00:49:57.280 he always said

00:49:57.960 when people are saying,

00:49:59.160 oh, this is a racist country.

00:50:01.040 It's like, 0.96

00:50:01.300 well, try going to another one.

00:50:02.780 We can show you.

00:50:04.300 I lived in Malaysia.

00:50:05.900 If you want it,

00:50:06.320 I mean, it's not a terrible place

00:50:08.080 but if you want to see

00:50:08.940 institutionalized racism,

00:50:11.520 if you're not

00:50:12.440 a Muslim Malay,

00:50:14.060 you're in a different tax band

00:50:15.620 and there are different universities.

00:50:17.140 Oh, absolutely.

00:50:18.060 Different universities you go to,

00:50:19.340 different employment laws

00:50:20.420 apply to you

00:50:21.080 and you cannot convert

00:50:22.980 to be,

00:50:23.640 it's called Bumi Poochra.

00:50:24.700 You can't convert to it.

00:50:25.720 It's ethnic.

00:50:26.420 It's in your blood.

00:50:27.660 And you are in a different tax band.

00:50:29.980 So it doesn't matter

00:50:30.760 how many Chinese and Indians

00:50:31.980 are working to help

00:50:33.480 boost their economy,

00:50:34.680 which they are the majority

00:50:36.240 earners there.

00:50:37.680 It doesn't matter.

00:50:38.460 They're in a separate,

00:50:39.800 that's racist.

00:50:41.700 Like what we're talking about

00:50:43.360 in this country

00:50:44.100 is,

00:50:45.220 I mean,

00:50:45.940 specifically,

00:50:46.420 that's institutional racism.

00:50:47.900 That is,

00:50:48.560 it's enshrined in law.

00:50:50.740 If it's not enshrined in law,

00:50:53.440 it's going to be difficult

00:50:54.520 for us to prove that.

00:50:55.480 So to the Douglas Murray point

00:50:56.940 is like,

00:50:57.660 he always says,

00:50:58.380 compared to where?

00:50:59.820 Or compared to who?

00:51:00.860 How are you grading us?

00:51:02.180 How are you grading

00:51:02.780 our civilization?

00:51:04.180 What I think

00:51:04.660 on the path we're on

00:51:05.840 is gulags and genocide.

00:51:06.880 Why do you say that?

00:51:07.600 People will,

00:51:08.240 look,

00:51:08.560 we didn't laugh

00:51:09.420 because it's not funny anymore.

00:51:10.940 Austria segregating

00:51:12.080 vaccinated people

00:51:12.940 from unvaccinated people.

00:51:14.040 Something we would never have believed

00:51:15.240 would have happened

00:51:15.620 two years ago.

00:51:16.500 To be fair though,

00:51:17.460 those boys do have a history for it.

00:51:18.940 They do a little.

00:51:19.740 It's Austria and Bavaria.

00:51:21.900 Get in the camp.

00:51:23.480 We don't want your freedom.

00:51:25.520 But

00:51:25.820 it's not funny anymore,

00:51:27.800 really,

00:51:28.100 because

00:51:28.660 this is why

00:51:30.820 the shadow point

00:51:31.800 that you made right

00:51:32.500 at the beginning

00:51:32.960 is so important.

00:51:34.400 It's only people

00:51:35.500 who truly understand

00:51:37.000 their own capacity

00:51:38.420 for evil

00:51:39.100 and their own capacity

00:51:40.840 for social conformity

00:51:42.220 and their own capacity

00:51:43.780 most importantly

00:51:44.720 for being

00:51:45.820 in love

00:51:48.380 with their own

00:51:49.120 virtuousness

00:51:50.040 because that's what

00:51:51.140 the Nazis thought.

00:51:52.220 That's what the communists

00:51:53.380 and the Soviets thought.

00:51:54.300 They thought they were

00:51:54.960 fixing society.

00:51:55.920 And of course it's worth

00:51:57.440 putting a few

00:51:58.820 non-believers in a camp.

00:52:00.980 Of course it is

00:52:01.800 because we're creating

00:52:03.180 the future brilliant society

00:52:05.060 in which man will be perfected.

00:52:07.240 And it's only when you know

00:52:08.240 all this.

00:52:08.620 You know,

00:52:09.020 Jordan Peterson obviously

00:52:09.940 has talked about this a lot.

00:52:11.700 It's only when you know

00:52:13.300 that you are capable

00:52:14.860 of putting people in a camp

00:52:16.420 that you might not.

00:52:18.900 You know.

00:52:19.360 But why do you say

00:52:20.560 that is your fear?

00:52:21.780 Why do you say

00:52:22.480 that's where we're potentially going?

00:52:24.180 I'm geographically

00:52:25.780 and historically literate 0.82

00:52:26.940 and I'm not a moron.

00:52:29.420 When I'm looking around 0.67

00:52:30.680 and I look at like

00:52:31.920 the,

00:52:33.040 I know that

00:52:34.100 you're moving away

00:52:35.540 from talking about

00:52:36.220 the woke movement

00:52:36.960 a little bit

00:52:37.580 which I understand.

00:52:39.440 I was woke.

00:52:40.560 I was a radical leftist

00:52:41.680 when I was a student.

00:52:42.900 I had the purple hair

00:52:43.780 and the eyebrow piercing

00:52:45.020 and all that.

00:52:45.700 I studied feminism

00:52:46.400 as well as the psychology.

00:52:48.660 And I understand that.

00:52:50.000 I understand where

00:52:51.080 these people are coming from.

00:52:52.920 But as it goes

00:52:54.160 through its different iterations

00:52:55.440 it's like a photocopy

00:52:56.580 of a photocopy

00:52:57.200 of a photocopy.

00:52:58.200 And I was about

00:52:58.900 well let's not bully people.

00:53:00.620 Let's keep people included.

00:53:02.020 Let's be inclusive.

00:53:03.280 So my thing was like

00:53:04.480 let's be reasonable

00:53:05.580 and not

00:53:06.580 excessively

00:53:07.840 tyrannical

00:53:08.960 and

00:53:09.760 let's not have a policy

00:53:11.620 of the devil

00:53:12.080 take the hindmost.

00:53:13.160 Because I've been

00:53:13.940 the hindmost

00:53:14.640 and I didn't like

00:53:15.360 the devil taking me.

00:53:16.260 Let's try and support people.

00:53:17.780 Fine.

00:53:18.100 Then it goes through

00:53:19.880 these different iterations

00:53:20.900 like a virus

00:53:21.760 that's mutating over time

00:53:23.280 to something 1.00

00:53:24.380 that is utterly moronic. 0.99

00:53:26.280 I mean 1.00

00:53:26.540 moronic. 1.00

00:53:28.180 You would have to be 1.00

00:53:29.100 a fucking idiot 1.00

00:53:30.380 to believe 1.00

00:53:30.940 that this was useful.

00:53:32.420 And

00:53:32.740 we're talking

00:53:33.500 psychological illiteracy

00:53:35.220 emotional illiteracy

00:53:36.860 geographical illiteracy

00:53:38.980 and historical literacy.

00:53:41.320 The Soviets 0.92

00:53:42.180 and the Nazis

00:53:42.740 we're not talking about

00:53:43.760 400 years ago.

00:53:45.400 There's people still alive.

00:53:46.760 My grandma.

00:53:47.020 She lived under

00:53:48.300 half her family

00:53:49.820 were

00:53:50.360 purged

00:53:52.020 in the Soviet thing

00:53:53.300 and then the other

00:53:53.900 half her family

00:53:54.540 were taken as slaves

00:53:55.640 to Germany

00:53:56.400 during the war.

00:53:57.380 She's alive.

00:53:58.100 You can go and talk to her.

00:53:59.260 Perfectly

00:53:59.700 compass mentis.

00:54:00.520 And you've got relatives

00:54:01.580 from Venezuela.

00:54:02.820 Yeah, yeah.

00:54:03.340 So

00:54:03.740 we can't just go

00:54:05.500 oh yeah

00:54:05.900 400 years ago

00:54:06.900 the Spanish Inquisition

00:54:07.980 if we've

00:54:08.700 no, no, no, no.

00:54:09.720 I'm sorry.

00:54:10.060 We're the same people.

00:54:11.220 We just have smartphones now.

00:54:12.960 We're not

00:54:13.260 better.

00:54:14.620 And you could say

00:54:15.520 well we've learned

00:54:16.140 our lessons.

00:54:16.720 Have we? 0.99

00:54:17.560 No we fucking haven't. 0.98

00:54:18.460 I'd love to see the evidence 0.98

00:54:19.600 that we've learned

00:54:20.180 our lessons

00:54:20.640 because we seem to be

00:54:21.680 doing some eerily

00:54:22.660 similar things again.

00:54:24.420 Aren't we going back

00:54:25.480 now to neo-segregation?

00:54:27.360 We only just gave it up

00:54:28.540 40 years ago

00:54:29.340 and we're doing it again.

00:54:30.540 Why?

00:54:31.000 Because it worked so well 0.98

00:54:31.980 the last fucking few times 0.98

00:54:33.340 we did it. 0.99

00:54:34.280 So

00:54:34.500 that's why

00:54:36.160 I just look at

00:54:37.880 what I try to see

00:54:39.300 is how does it begin

00:54:40.440 obviously everything escalates

00:54:42.440 once you sort of

00:54:43.840 open the floodgates

00:54:45.700 a little bit

00:54:46.460 then another one

00:54:47.160 then another one

00:54:47.820 then another one

00:54:48.520 yeah gulags and genocide. 0.75

00:54:50.220 We are gulagging people.

00:54:51.660 We've digitally gulagged people.

00:54:53.540 How far away is that

00:54:54.440 from actually gulagging them?

00:54:56.200 So now

00:54:56.640 physical gulagging

00:54:57.740 as you just said

00:55:00.600 it's going to take place

00:55:01.420 in Austria

00:55:01.860 and the Czech Republic

00:55:02.980 which I was living in

00:55:04.160 up until

00:55:04.740 six months ago

00:55:05.960 that's doing it

00:55:06.700 from Monday as well.

00:55:07.400 they're following

00:55:08.040 in Austria's footsteps 0.60

00:55:08.920 as they usually do.

00:55:10.120 Yes.

00:55:10.740 From Monday.

00:55:11.720 The Sudetenland

00:55:12.760 will be with us.

00:55:13.800 I'm telling you.

00:55:15.140 Are the Germans 0.65

00:55:15.720 doing it as well?

00:55:16.720 Yeah they're talking about it.

00:55:17.900 Oh they're really?

00:55:18.420 Yeah.

00:55:20.020 Hey Konstantin

00:55:21.260 do you love trigonometry?

00:55:22.980 Of course.

00:55:23.880 Incredible interviews

00:55:24.960 hilarious live streams

00:55:26.560 hard hitting satire

00:55:28.100 plus

00:55:28.680 my handsome jawline.

00:55:30.220 Whatever takes away

00:55:31.100 from your hairline.

00:55:32.220 But if you do love

00:55:33.160 trigonometry

00:55:33.700 and you want to support us

00:55:35.320 there's only one place

00:55:36.780 to do that

00:55:37.420 and that's on Locals.

00:55:39.120 Yes Locals

00:55:39.980 is a brilliant platform

00:55:41.280 that has been

00:55:41.980 incredibly supportive

00:55:43.020 to our show

00:55:43.940 and other problematic creators.

00:55:46.560 The great thing

00:55:47.200 about Locals

00:55:47.920 is that it's a community

00:55:49.040 for people

00:55:49.840 who love trigonometry.

00:55:51.380 That's right

00:55:51.800 it's a place for you

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00:56:19.220 See you there guys.

00:56:21.520 Do you know

00:56:22.200 I took part

00:56:23.300 in a debate

00:56:24.740 TV debate

00:56:25.460 and part of it

00:56:26.360 was on vaccine passports.

00:56:27.940 And I was shocked

00:56:29.340 by the other two people

00:56:30.860 by two people

00:56:32.040 on the debate

00:56:32.560 who seemed very reasonable

00:56:33.600 very nice

00:56:34.300 and the way

00:56:35.480 they talked about

00:56:36.300 unvaccinated people.

00:56:38.220 Just the bile,

00:56:39.800 the contempt,

00:56:41.340 just the way

00:56:41.920 they dismissed them.

00:56:43.880 And I was shocked

00:56:44.580 by this

00:56:44.900 and I went to talk

00:56:45.540 to my girlfriend

00:56:46.060 who's American

00:56:46.760 and I went

00:56:47.380 I was just shocked

00:56:48.220 by it.

00:56:48.960 And she was like

00:56:49.420 well why are you

00:56:50.240 shocked by it?

00:56:50.700 In America

00:56:51.060 that's how everyone speaks.

00:56:52.960 And I was like

00:56:53.540 really?

00:56:54.260 She went yeah

00:56:54.500 that's exactly

00:56:55.580 how everyone speaks

00:56:56.820 well not everyone

00:56:57.620 but a large portion

00:56:58.860 of the population

00:56:59.580 in America.

00:57:00.060 So there's something here

00:57:01.640 to do with

00:57:02.640 personality disorders

00:57:03.680 and narcissism. 0.74

00:57:05.260 If somebody's heavily

00:57:06.040 emotionally dysregulated

00:57:07.280 especially if they have

00:57:08.020 borderline personality disorder

00:57:09.420 they lose the ability

00:57:10.880 to assess threat properly.

00:57:12.800 Right.

00:57:13.240 If this was smallpox

00:57:14.440 and it had a 30% mortality rate

00:57:16.220 I would look at

00:57:17.100 unvaccinated people that way

00:57:18.180 I'd be like 1.00

00:57:18.520 you fucking murderer 1.00

00:57:19.400 you don't care. 1.00

00:57:21.040 It isn't smallpox

00:57:22.500 or the bubonic plague.

00:57:24.200 Or polio which is

00:57:25.060 or yeah exactly.

00:57:26.120 So I think

00:57:28.580 when I look at

00:57:29.280 there I'm unvaccinated

00:57:30.880 when I look at

00:57:31.560 the attitudes

00:57:32.080 I'm like

00:57:32.660 if I believe

00:57:33.940 the threat was as high

00:57:34.860 as they do

00:57:35.500 then I would understand it

00:57:36.940 but this is a threat

00:57:37.920 misassessment.

00:57:39.240 Yes.

00:57:40.260 People with borderline

00:57:41.080 personality disorder

00:57:42.120 who are very emotionally

00:57:43.240 dysregulated

00:57:43.960 I think it's called

00:57:44.840 the HPA axis

00:57:46.300 the hypothalamus

00:57:47.220 pituitary adrenal axis

00:57:48.560 and it helps us

00:57:49.620 to physically

00:57:50.400 look at a threat

00:57:51.440 and assess

00:57:52.380 like a proportionate

00:57:53.620 and appropriate response.

00:57:54.880 This is dysregulated

00:57:56.220 in these people

00:57:56.760 completely dysregulated

00:57:57.980 that is an overreaction

00:57:59.920 me being unvaccinated

00:58:02.420 and walking around

00:58:03.580 is not

00:58:04.300 causing people

00:58:05.620 to just

00:58:05.960 fall down

00:58:06.820 dead in my wake

00:58:07.940 that's not how

00:58:09.480 this works.

00:58:10.680 Also when we use vaccines

00:58:12.400 we typically go

00:58:13.520 through trial periods

00:58:14.460 phase three

00:58:15.140 phase four

00:58:15.980 to see if they work

00:58:17.060 because we have

00:58:17.820 developed vaccines

00:58:18.680 we developed one

00:58:19.400 for swine flu

00:58:20.520 back in 2013

00:58:21.540 and we withdrew it.

00:58:22.840 I'm not a monster

00:58:24.540 for choosing

00:58:25.140 to wait and see

00:58:26.280 whether this will

00:58:27.240 eventually be withdrawn.

00:58:28.380 Well you know

00:58:29.060 your point about

00:58:29.860 emotional dysregulation

00:58:31.160 and over threat

00:58:32.700 misassessment

00:58:33.500 which is absolutely

00:58:34.760 a hundred percent

00:58:35.720 what we're dealing

00:58:36.340 with here

00:58:36.780 right

00:58:37.100 is

00:58:38.080 I think there was

00:58:39.720 a study that came out

00:58:41.080 that people who watch CNN

00:58:42.800 and I'm not picking

00:58:43.680 on CNN specifically

00:58:44.780 because other media

00:58:45.720 institutions do as well

00:58:46.860 but people who

00:58:47.880 watch CNN

00:58:48.740 that was the study

00:58:49.560 I saw

00:58:50.000 I think they

00:58:51.080 they said that

00:58:52.460 if you catch COVID

00:58:53.460 your chance of going

00:58:54.340 to hospital

00:58:54.860 was like 40%

00:58:56.180 when it's like

00:58:57.240 0.1%

00:58:58.240 that I

00:58:58.900 don't quote me

00:58:59.980 in these numbers

00:59:00.380 but the ratios

00:59:01.180 the ratios

00:59:01.920 are something like that.

00:59:02.520 It wouldn't surprise me

00:59:03.400 because the statistics

00:59:04.680 and the way things

00:59:05.480 are being reported

00:59:06.080 demonstrates statistical

00:59:08.160 illiteracy

00:59:08.720 as we were talking

00:59:09.220 about illiteracy

00:59:09.780 sorry.

00:59:10.220 Yeah no no

00:59:10.680 you're right

00:59:11.040 but the thing is

00:59:12.320 that when it's

00:59:13.280 at the individual level

00:59:14.360 I can understand

00:59:15.940 that it might

00:59:17.880 be illiteracy 0.69

00:59:18.860 but when it starts

00:59:20.260 to get to that

00:59:21.140 level of media

00:59:22.060 coverage

00:59:22.700 I'm sorry

00:59:24.540 it starts to

00:59:26.220 feel

00:59:27.200 and it's just a

00:59:28.660 feeling

00:59:28.940 I'm not claiming

00:59:29.640 anything

00:59:29.920 just saying it's a feeling

00:59:30.940 you know

00:59:31.620 in fact

00:59:32.280 don't care about

00:59:33.160 my feelings

00:59:33.680 but it starts

00:59:34.800 to feel like

00:59:35.580 there's

00:59:36.420 there's more

00:59:37.340 of a

00:59:37.860 determined

00:59:38.640 agenda there

00:59:39.800 do you know

00:59:40.140 what I mean?

00:59:40.480 Almost like

00:59:40.640 propaganda

00:59:42.000 yeah

00:59:42.720 almost like propaganda

00:59:44.100 and maybe

00:59:45.640 in almost certainly

00:59:47.040 in my opinion

00:59:47.640 it's well-intentioned

00:59:49.540 the idea is

00:59:50.600 look we've got

00:59:51.120 a disease

00:59:51.460 we've got to

00:59:51.920 get people

00:59:52.460 to take it

00:59:52.920 seriously

00:59:53.280 but the damage

00:59:54.920 they've done

00:59:55.420 in the process

00:59:56.280 you know

00:59:57.680 it worries me

00:59:58.560 a lot

00:59:58.920 because

00:59:59.940 you know

01:00:01.340 people laugh

01:00:02.240 it off

01:00:02.520 and we joke

01:00:03.160 about it

01:00:03.540 and we do

01:00:03.900 the Nazi accent

01:00:04.860 and all of that

01:00:05.660 stuff

01:00:06.000 but if you've

01:00:07.160 got countries

01:00:07.720 in Europe

01:00:08.740 putting

01:00:10.100 separating people

01:00:12.020 based on whether

01:00:13.200 they've taken

01:00:13.720 a vaccine

01:00:14.140 to protect them

01:00:14.840 from a virus

01:00:15.420 that has a 0.1%

01:00:16.900 mortality rate

01:00:17.700 that's a problem

01:00:20.520 and then placing

01:00:21.460 them under house

01:00:22.100 arrest

01:00:22.520 perhaps when

01:00:23.220 they leave the

01:00:24.060 house

01:00:24.320 we can recognise

01:00:25.120 them with an

01:00:25.760 armband

01:00:26.220 so we all know

01:00:27.400 who it is 0.98

01:00:28.380 it's insane man

01:00:30.020 it's absolutely

01:00:31.060 insane

01:00:31.540 so maybe

01:00:32.300 maybe we should

01:00:33.060 all despair

01:00:33.480 this is the

01:00:34.100 black pill episode

01:00:34.920 but if we despair

01:00:37.140 through this despair

01:00:38.300 what brave new

01:00:39.280 world we could

01:00:40.080 create

01:00:40.460 on that happy

01:00:42.660 note

01:00:42.940 our hour is up

01:00:44.840 man listen

01:00:45.260 it's been an

01:00:45.720 absolute pleasure

01:00:46.260 let's get you

01:00:47.260 back sometime

01:00:47.840 and chat more

01:00:48.580 because it's been

01:00:49.200 really great to

01:00:49.900 meet you

01:00:50.180 but we've got

01:00:51.080 one more

01:00:51.360 question for you

01:00:51.960 which is always

01:00:52.540 what's the one

01:00:53.040 thing we're not

01:00:53.660 talking about

01:00:54.320 but we really

01:00:54.920 should be

01:00:55.420 we probably

01:00:57.420 should be

01:00:58.140 talking about

01:00:59.060 the rather

01:01:00.620 thorny subject

01:01:01.380 of trauma

01:01:01.980 and the effect

01:01:03.320 that it has

01:01:03.780 on people's

01:01:04.540 perceptions of

01:01:05.140 the world

01:01:05.480 it's thorny

01:01:06.200 because nobody

01:01:06.720 wants to talk

01:01:07.280 about the ways

01:01:07.760 in which they

01:01:08.160 were hurt

01:01:08.580 but a lot

01:01:10.220 of the things

01:01:10.720 that we're

01:01:11.020 seeing

01:01:11.320 the threat

01:01:12.100 misassessment

01:01:12.760 the tendency

01:01:14.320 to split reality

01:01:15.560 into good and

01:01:16.340 bad

01:01:16.640 all of this

01:01:17.360 is trauma

01:01:17.800 based

01:01:18.220 and we need

01:01:18.780 to have

01:01:19.280 an open

01:01:20.800 conversation

01:01:21.560 about the

01:01:22.140 way in which

01:01:22.780 our perception

01:01:24.280 of the world

01:01:24.960 and our sorting

01:01:25.680 of the world

01:01:26.240 and the schemas

01:01:26.940 we use to make

01:01:27.600 sense of reality

01:01:28.420 is massively

01:01:29.660 informed by

01:01:30.540 the personal

01:01:31.300 trauma that we

01:01:32.120 all as human

01:01:32.680 beings have

01:01:33.420 experienced

01:01:33.940 I'm sure we'll

01:01:35.340 talk about that

01:01:35.940 next time

01:01:36.400 we've got a

01:01:36.840 couple of

01:01:37.160 questions for

01:01:37.640 our local

01:01:38.060 supporters

01:01:38.520 as well

01:01:38.860 but in the

01:01:39.220 meantime

01:01:39.580 where can

01:01:40.060 people find

01:01:40.640 you

01:01:40.840 follow you

01:01:41.560 etc

01:01:41.860 my website

01:01:43.440 is

01:01:43.760 spartanlifecoach.com

01:01:44.960 and if they

01:01:45.380 put my name

01:01:45.960 into youtube

01:01:46.540 they'll find

01:01:47.060 my videos

01:01:47.460 richard grannon

01:01:48.100 on youtube

01:01:48.560 thanks for being

01:01:49.580 with us

01:01:49.980 and thank you

01:01:50.840 for watching

01:01:51.300 and listening

01:01:51.720 at home

01:01:52.060 we'll see you

01:01:52.800 very soon

01:01:53.220 with another

01:01:53.600 brilliant episode

01:01:54.260 like this one

01:01:54.900 or raw show

01:01:55.720 all of them

01:01:56.240 go out at

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01:01:57.600 and if you want

01:01:58.180 your trigonometry

01:01:58.780 on the go

01:01:59.320 it's also

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01:02:01.260 take care

01:02:02.160 and see you

01:02:02.780 soon guys

01:02:03.360 we hope

01:02:05.280 you've enjoyed

01:02:05.840 this incredible

01:02:07.040 interview

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01:02:51.800 Thank you.

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01:04:21.800 Thank you.

01:04:51.800 Thank you.

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TRIGGERnometry - November 29, 2021

An Epidemic of Narcissism with Richard Grannon

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