TRIGGERnometry - An Honest Conversation With Tommy Robinson

00:00:00.000 I've gone from being spat at, to being punched, to being hugged, to being embraced, to have my

00:00:05.340 hands shaken. And that process is now where the country's at. My cousin, when she was 14,

00:00:11.520 my cousin was 14, she woke up naked in a house in Berry Park being raped by loads of bearded men.

00:00:17.540 Remember, 7-7 bomb plot, they picked up their bombs in Luton. A fertiliser bomb plot, come out

00:00:21.740 of Luton. Stockholm bomber, come out of Luton. Luton was named by the CIA as the epicentre of

00:00:27.640 terrorist atrocities and the planning for Europe. And that's why I kept asking people,

00:00:32.480 what would you do? Tommy, when you look back at some of your behaviour, do you think that

00:00:37.000 it's tarnished your message? I had no option, right? Do you think I want to be out fighting?

00:00:41.360 I don't want to be out... Well, I do, though, Tommy. You're a football hooligan, right?

00:00:44.800 No, I'm 42 years old. But do you see what I'm saying? In the Quran, 7% of Mein Kampf is due

00:00:51.940 hatred. 7%. 11% of that book. Mein Kampf is banned. This isn't banned, this is taught

00:00:57.300 across the whole country. If they want to implement real hate speech laws, this would

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00:02:23.180 Tommy, been a long time coming, mate. Thank you for being here.

00:02:26.880 It's all right.

00:02:27.460 We've got a long conversation ahead of us. Lots to talk about recently.

00:02:30.940 You just said before we started, it's been the worst week of your life.

00:02:34.280 Just so people know, we were supposed to interview last week.

00:02:38.560 The more I'm getting ready in the evening, thinking about how we're going to do this interview,

00:02:42.240 because it's in the morning the next day, and then there's a video of you standing next

00:02:47.320 to a guy who's clearly just been knocked out. I'm going, he's probably not going to turn

00:02:50.300 up tomorrow. Didn't turn up. Here you are.

00:02:53.500 Before we get into all that, though, the one thing that I think is really important is for

00:02:59.040 us just to understand for our audience and for ourselves, what's your story and who you

00:03:04.380 are and how you got here, right?

00:03:06.000 And I think that's a really big part of it that gets missed very often. People kind of

00:03:11.240 have an idea about you, as I once did, by the way. I will say this, right? But they

00:03:15.900 do not have the full picture. So let's talk about that. Tell us why you were here.

00:03:21.200 So that idea, I remember 2015 was the first chance I got to give a presentation of my life.

00:03:27.400 And it was at Oxford University.

00:03:29.160 I walked into Oxford University. Everyone hated me. I was getting booed, shouted at, screamed at.

00:03:33.380 You know, when you go to Oxford University debating society, you get a free course meal.

00:03:36.720 I didn't get any of that. I just got invited in. But by the end of the presentation, I

00:03:40.720 got a standing ovation. And all the people there said, I didn't know any of this.

00:03:44.160 And I brought them back every time to growing up in Lumen. And I remember saying to the

00:03:48.580 audience, I don't know where you grew up, but please picture yourself. I'm going to tell

00:03:52.020 you my story, what I saw growing up, what happened to my family members, all the changes

00:03:56.060 I saw, and then ask yourself what you would have done. Keep asking yourself, what would

00:03:59.720 you do if you saw this? So yeah, I was born in 1982 in Lumen.

00:04:03.360 My mum was an Irish immigrant, Tulum. She's one of eight, from a poor family. And I grew

00:04:10.580 up in a town that is one of the most diverse and multicultural towns in Europe, actually,

00:04:15.100 in Europe. So I saw firsthand what it's like to grow up in a multicultural community, but

00:04:20.340 also what it's like in a town that, when I was born, had one mosque in 1982, and now has

00:04:25.420 45. So we're nearly a 50% Pakistani population of Muslims. And I saw the problems from that.

00:04:33.220 And I spoke about them. And I guess when people say I'm guilty of things, I'd say, yeah, I'm

00:04:36.940 guilty of being a decade ahead. But that's not because I had some golden light bulb or could

00:04:42.400 see into the future. I just saw my hometown. I saw from growing up as a child to what had

00:04:47.380 happened. And when I grew up, and again, I'll start off. So if you line all my friends

00:04:53.180 up and you get 30 of us, the majority of us are sons of immigrants, whether it be St.

00:04:57.480 Lucian, Bulgarian, Italian, Irish, all of us are sons of immigrants, yeah? I went to school.

00:05:01.800 Some of the best people I met growing up, some of the people I love from growing up are Muslim.

00:05:06.260 But that doesn't change that there's a massive problem.

00:05:08.760 So talk to us about that, Tommy. You mentioned, look, I imagine most people listening to this

00:05:14.300 can imagine what happens when a place goes from being mostly one group of people to mostly

00:05:20.100 another group of people, right? And we have friends, we have a close friend of ours who

00:05:24.140 grew up in Bradford, right? And he talks about what he experienced as a white guy in a mostly

00:05:28.720 Pakistani school, right? Most people don't think about that. So when you talk about problems,

00:05:34.000 right, what do you mean? Like, give us an example.

00:05:36.620 So I mean that going to school, so when I went, and I noticed it when I got to high

00:05:39.660 school, or even just, I talk about when I was, we used to have an under-18s nightclub,

00:05:43.520 and when people talk about racism and victim of racism, so I've been a victim of racism

00:05:47.960 untold times. I remember going as a young group of lads going to an under-19s nightclub

00:05:52.560 where we had to walk through the town, we'd get robbed, we'd get spat, we'd get, in the

00:05:56.640 end, we had to hide our money in our socks, because every time you went, you got robbed

00:06:00.020 and mucked by Pakistani gangs. You'd get called a dirty gula, little white boy, slapped

00:06:04.940 around. So when people talk about racism, I think, I've experienced it my whole life.

00:06:08.920 I've seen it my whole life. I've seen, and when we're at school, so if you come into

00:06:12.840 our high school, I went to a high school called Puttridge High School, which was a, still a

00:06:17.180 majority non-Muslim school, but then they bussed children from the Muslim community up

00:06:21.540 on buses into the school. Now, when you went into our school, and there's never been a racial

00:06:26.840 tension in Lumen. Never seen it. Never seen racism. The town is divided by religious

00:06:31.900 lines. That's it. It's white and blacks like this growing up. And it always was, especially

00:06:37.120 in Luton's football scene, which we can get onto. All of our groups and lads, we're a

00:06:40.680 very diverse bunch of lads. Always have been. Luton's football hooligan element was always

00:06:45.080 seen. The actual racist clubs from the 70s and 80s would always have a big day out in

00:06:50.340 Luton, because Luton's lads that would be resisting them, always white and black, because

00:06:53.940 that's what Luton has always been. But there was never really racial tensions. At school, and

00:06:58.500 we didn't create this Muslim playground, that was the front playground, non-Muslim playground

00:07:02.960 at the back. So even in the playground, it was divided. When you walk into the school

00:07:08.120 dinner hall, say go into the school dinner hall, and when you walk in, you'd have everyone

00:07:11.920 sitting in the mix, Chinese, Indians, blacks, everyone sitting at tables together. In the

00:07:17.940 corner, there'd be 10 tables of Muslims. That's just how it was.

00:07:21.400 And the playground, is that the school mandating that, or is it just how kids saw themselves

00:07:25.500 that? That's just how it divided. Right. That's just how it divided. And if one Muslim

00:07:29.200 got in any fight, 100 of them got in a fight. So something very different. I've never seen

00:07:33.400 that until I got to high school. And then I got to high school and see 10 or 20 men

00:07:37.860 booting one kid. And I've never seen that, because people had a fight before, and they

00:07:42.640 just had a fight. Now literally, and then when you get outside the school gates afterwards,

00:07:46.340 say when we were 13, 14, and we had some trouble with some Pakistani kids at school, and troubles

00:07:50.620 going on, when you come outside school, there'd be 30 men. Men. There's no 30 black men or

00:07:55.560 white men coming up to school. They're all at work. But there's 30 Pakistani men waiting

00:07:59.360 outside school to confront the 12, 13, 14-year-old kids. So I saw that. Also at school, I very

00:08:05.180 quickly saw young girls that were at our school. We viewed them at the time as children. I'll

00:08:11.100 be honest, we used to view them as slags at that time. Because the girls who were 13 were

00:08:15.720 getting picked up by Pakistani men outside. They'd come up to the school gates and literally

00:08:19.160 pick the girls up in school uniforms. And the girls would be going out and giving blowjobs

00:08:22.500 to taxi drivers. And we'd all know what's going on. But we never viewed them as victims

00:08:26.680 at that time as children. We were children, and they were going out. Basically, they were

00:08:30.600 victims of this grooming gang. My cousin, when she was 14, my cousin was 14, she woke up

00:08:36.100 naked in a house in Bury Park, being raped by loads of bearded men. She'd run out on the

00:08:40.920 streets, and the prostitutes rang her dad. The street prostitutes rang her dad. She was

00:08:44.280 just a child.

00:08:45.460 Sorry to interrupt, Tommy. When was this?

00:08:47.000 This was when I was 13 years old.

00:08:49.840 So that would have been 96 or 95?

00:08:52.340 96, 95. And a lot, I do this at Oxford University, a lot happened in my life at that time, which

00:08:58.040 whatever happens in your life shapes your worldview, shapes your view. You understand. Even there

00:09:01.920 was a murder of a gentleman called Mark Sharp. Google this murder. Mark Sharp was with his

00:09:06.220 son. His son was my age, probably when I was 11, 12. His son was my age. He was friends

00:09:11.280 with my uncles. And he's drove past, and he's had a bit of a road rage with a car full of

00:09:15.700 Pakistanis, and he's called them a wanker as he's gone past. They've followed him. They've

00:09:20.020 called for reinforcements. More cars have turned up. As he's got out with his 12-year-old son

00:09:24.720 to get a takeaway, they've jumped out. They've beaten with bats, beaten with poles. There was

00:09:28.800 an explosion of violence in Luton that we didn't understand at the time, coming from the Muslim

00:09:32.940 community. When we go back and speak to the elders in our community, it seemed to have been

00:09:37.400 stemming from the Gulf invasion. After the Gulf, something was happening in Luton which none

00:09:41.660 of us knew about. And it's only later as I get in in my life, which I'll get to, that

00:09:46.360 I started to understand, oh, this is what's made it. This is what this is. Because there

00:09:50.940 was always something different, which I didn't put down to the Muslim community, because at

00:09:53.760 the time it wasn't about them being Muslims. It was just Pakistanis are very different.

00:09:57.300 That's how I saw it. But Mark Sharp, they snapped a knife off in his head and killed

00:10:00.900 him. He survived for three, four days in hospital. I remember his family left the town.

00:10:05.660 The Pakistanis all went on the run. They got them back in the end from Pakistan. I think

00:10:09.060 they got four years. It's not justice. They got four years for a brutal murder where

00:10:13.880 six to eight of them jumped all over him, snapped a knife off his head in front of his

00:10:17.900 son. So I remember seeing all these things. And then my cousin, when she was being prostituted

00:10:22.580 in the end, the police would say she's a drug addict. Because she was. She was on heroin

00:10:26.560 because they got her hooked on heroin. Now, and I remember even when I got a chance on Jeremy

00:10:31.040 Paxman years later, and I remember saying to Jeremy Paxman, when I went on in 2010, and

00:10:36.360 it's now, it hasn't aged well for him. And when I went on the chat show, I said, they're

00:10:40.960 picking our daughters up from schools. They're picking our sisters up from schools. The gangs

00:10:45.260 are operating so different. They're not challenged. And he was like, really? You expect us to

00:10:49.160 believe this? I remember saying, Jeremy, do you know anyone who's hooked on heroin sold

00:10:52.380 to them by a Muslim gang? You don't. I do. Do you know anyone who's been killed by a Muslim

00:10:55.100 gang? You don't. I do. Do you know any girls that now wear full niqabs that aren't allowed

00:10:58.840 to see their family? You don't do you? I do. Do you know anyone who's been prostituted and

00:11:02.800 groomed and raped? You don't do you? I do. Yeah? I said, so I don't expect you to

00:11:06.260 understand, but I do expect you to listen, because this is happening in town. The reason

00:11:09.140 why the English Defence League has gone bang is because what I've seen is what's mirrored

00:11:14.440 across every working class community in this country. If Islam was to evolve, which it needs

00:11:18.680 to evolve, to fit in with Western democracy, which is clearly not. Clearly there's a problem.

00:11:23.980 Clearly the English Defence League is a phenomenon that swept this country. And with the issues

00:11:28.480 I'm talking about, Jeremy, if I ask you, do you know anyone that's hooked on heroin sold

00:11:31.940 to them by Muslim gangs? You probably don't. I do. Do you know any beautiful girls that

00:11:35.300 you went to school with that are now wearing a burqa that don't see their family? Probably

00:11:38.940 don't. I do. You're the only one who's been murdered by a Muslim gang. You probably don't.

00:11:42.300 I do. Do you know only 15 year old girls that you know that you've grown up with that have

00:11:45.580 been raped or pimped? You don't. So I don't expect you to understand the issues.

00:11:48.540 These are all personal issues of yours? Personal issues in towns and cities like mine that

00:11:53.640 are happening. And they're not happening with the Sikh community. They're not happening

00:11:56.560 with the Jewish community. And indeed they're not happening with most Muslims. No, they're

00:12:00.300 happening within the Islamic community. That's why I'm saying that it's an Islamic problem.

00:12:03.940 And when I'm just a simple person, so I'm just a normal person. But when I'm looking

00:12:07.580 at it, I have to look for where this hatred is coming from. So are you seriously suggesting

00:12:10.940 there aren't white drug dealers and there aren't white gangs? Of course I'm not. No, but

00:12:15.580 Sikh gangs or any other kind of? No, I'm not. But I'm saying some of these specific issues

00:12:19.380 are coming from the Islamic community. Solely the Islamic community. Terrorists wanting to

00:12:23.840 blow us up. Constant hostile activity towards our youth. All these problems. And from sitting

00:12:29.060 back, there's got to be something it's coming from. You see, none of the other communities

00:12:32.720 are spreading it. So we're a symptom of the problem. The English Defence League is symptom.

00:12:36.300 You're claiming that community is spreading it. Actually what we're talking about here.

00:12:40.620 Members of the community. Yes, exactly. As you could talk about members of the white community

00:12:44.920 doing all sorts of atrocious things. Yeah, not 24-year-old groups of 10 of them hanging

00:12:50.220 around outside school gates. You've never seen a white gang. And purposely targeting.

00:12:53.720 Never seen a white gang? Are we going to pretend that Muslim groups are not out there purposely

00:12:57.540 targeting our youth and pimping them? Are we going to pretend it's not happening?

00:13:00.340 You're not pretending white people aren't doing that?

00:13:02.180 Not in the same manner. Not in the same group. They're saying it's a cultural thing

00:13:07.220 which is going on within their community. So I grew up in Luton. I've seen all these problems.

00:13:13.300 And again, I'm going to reiterate again. That doesn't mean because some of the best lads I know

00:13:17.940 were Muslim lads at school. But when there's a divide, and I'll explain the story again.

00:13:23.380 When there's a divide, something very different happens with this. I remember being

00:13:27.940 coming out of a nightclub in Luton. And I remember seeing about six Muslims beating one man.

00:13:32.020 And it was my ex-wife said, stop them. Stop them. And I remember going in to pull them off him.

00:13:37.860 And then they attack you. And then as it's all going on, a Muslim friend of mine

00:13:43.300 stood on their side against us. And he didn't even know him. And afterwards I spoke to him.

00:13:48.420 And the whole town's going, there's all this chaos going on. It's us and them. The divide,

00:13:53.700 you can think your friends, it's us and them. When that divide line comes, it's us and them.

00:13:59.060 And that divide, which I never understood again. I'll tell you the moment I understood it.

00:14:04.180 But all this is going on. I'm seeing lots of changes in the town, seeing a level of ingression,

00:14:08.580 a level of hate, rapes, criminality. Fast forward to 2000 and to when I'm 19, I think,

00:14:15.540 I'm doing my apprenticeship. I left school. I left school at 16. I got an apprenticeship

00:14:21.300 as an aeronautical engineer at Britannia Airways. I went to work there. And I saw,

00:14:26.740 do you remember the Bezlem School Massacre?

00:14:28.420 Yeah. In Russia.

00:14:30.100 In Russia. That was my trip.

00:14:31.780 For people who don't know, Chechen terrorists took over a school. They held it, I think,

00:14:36.660 for one or two days. And then the Russian special forces went in and it was a bloodbath.

00:14:41.220 And for people who don't know, that's coming to the UK. I think that's...

00:14:44.740 So this happens. So Chechen terrorists take over the school. And I can still see it.

00:14:49.060 Yeah. Because, and this was my real, you know, everyone's had that moment that wakes them up.

00:14:53.620 Everyone's had that moment that I think a lot of people would wish they could just close their

00:14:56.740 eyes to it. I think once you're awake to this and you understand some of the problems,

00:14:59.940 you can't, you can't turn off from it. But they take over a school, not one Muslim, not two,

00:15:04.580 a whole massive gang of them, yeah, jihadists, take over a school. The parents then get phone calls.

00:15:10.100 So they know their children are in the school. They know terrorists have got their kids.

00:15:13.940 The parents come to the school gates. The military are there. The Russian army are there.

00:15:18.020 And the parents are outside. And the women are dropping on their knees, holding their heads,

00:15:22.260 as then you start hearing the Muslims butchering their kids. And they're killing them and butchering

00:15:26.340 them. And I remember watching it, going, what the hell is this? What the hell is going on here?

00:15:31.860 Yeah. So that was my moment to start looking at Islam. And two weeks after this,

00:15:37.460 I saw a group in Luton called Al-Majreddin. The leader, the second in command of that group was a

00:15:43.860 gentleman called Saif al-Islam, which translates as Sword of Islam. He's in a chicken shop in Luton and

00:15:49.220 he's doing an interview. And in that interview, he says, a attack like Beslam would be justified on

00:15:55.460 a British school. And this is when I'm probably, I don't know, I might have been 19.

00:16:01.140 Might have been 19. I can't remember. I was young. And I'll be on it. And from my background growing

00:16:06.180 up in Luton, as I said, Luton is a, so people understand the town. It's probably one of the

00:16:10.500 most poverty-stricken towns in the country. It's a rough and violent town. It has a lot of problems.

00:16:15.060 Take Islam out of the equation, it's still got a million problems, yeah? And growing up there,

00:16:21.300 I'd say chisels who you become. But I grew up and I looked up to my uncle's rule lead members

00:16:30.260 of Luton's football hooligan scene. So whilst I went to school, stayed out of trouble, I was

00:16:35.220 always in the group that was getting in trouble, the likely lads, but I never got involved in any

00:16:39.860 criminality, whereas a lot of the kids I grew up with did. My mum, probably because of my mum and

00:16:45.220 her parenting, my mum was strict, but I left, done my apprenticeship. But when I saw this, I was a young

00:16:51.220 lad full of testosterone and I used to go to the football element with Luton Town football scene.

00:16:56.180 And when I watched this Muslim say this, I thought, who's this man? And I start,

00:17:01.380 then I looked at him and I understood Al-Majreddin. Now remember, there wasn't a terrorist attack in

00:17:06.260 the UK till what, 2007 was it? So there hadn't been a terrorist attack. There hadn't been,

00:17:11.940 no one understood jihad. I look at this group, Al-Majreddin, who are now a prescribed terrorist

00:17:17.380 organisation, but at the time they weren't. And I look and they're holding weekly events in our

00:17:22.660 town centre outside Don Miller's bakery, outside the local bakery. So I looked at them and I looked

00:17:28.660 and they were a global caliphate network and their head office was on Biscuit Road, which is where we

00:17:34.500 from. And it's like, who the hell are this lot? And in my presentation at Oxford University, I showed,

00:17:40.020 so after September 11th, like when you went to your local shops, I don't know what it was like,

00:17:44.340 but at my local shops, there was not pictures of the 19 suicide bombers with Magnificent 19. It was

00:17:49.940 celebrated in Luton. It was celebrated at a local college. They held a march for the

00:17:53.860 anniversary of the first year through the town centre. So it was celebrated. September 11th was

00:17:57.620 celebrated. Openly. It was openly celebrating the terrorist attack.

00:18:01.140 Look at my presentation at Oxford University. I show the posters at my shop and all over the

00:18:07.300 phone boxes, all over the shops, Magnificent 19. It was celebrated. And so I looked at this group

00:18:13.540 and I went down the town centre the next Saturday. And I'll be honest, because on a Saturday

00:18:17.620 back then, as a young man, there might be 100 of us on a Saturday that would go to Luton football.

00:18:24.740 And we'd travel around the country going to football together as young men. And I looked

00:18:27.620 at this group and then when I went down there, there's a police officer there. And I said,

00:18:31.540 and they were openly like, now they try and hide it. They were openly recruiting to send people

00:18:37.060 to fight against our armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. They were openly promoting jihad.

00:18:41.300 It was like, remember, this is at a time when Abu Hamza, hook, when he was holding his seminars

00:18:45.700 in Finsbury Park, when he had hundreds of men on the floor in the road calling for war against

00:18:51.060 Britain. Remember, they weren't getting nicked on hate speech or anything like that. They were just

00:18:54.500 allowed to do it. So as I looked at this group, I thought they've been operating, and Mass Network

00:19:00.340 had been operating for 20 years in my town. Which then explains, and I tried, I tried having this,

00:19:06.020 I sat down with Bimams when we started the English Defence League and explained to him,

00:19:10.020 your community, the Islamic community, is very entrenched. It's inward looking. You're all here.

00:19:16.100 Now within this little community, you've got, let's just say 200. We've got more. Let's say 200

00:19:22.980 pure radicals who are working 25 days, seven days a week. And they're working to promote jihad,

00:19:29.300 supremacy, intolerance against the non-Muslim community. So once they're operating all these years,

00:19:35.860 the explosions of violence that are coming out, and they weren't just coming out onto us in the

00:19:39.380 streets. Remember, 7-7 bomb plot, they picked up their bombs in Luton. A fertiliser bomb plot,

00:19:43.780 come out of Luton. Stockholm bomber, come out of Luton. Luton was named by the CIA as the epicenter

00:19:50.420 of terrorist atrocities and the planning for Europe. That's Luton. So when people are saying,

00:19:55.780 I said, well, you know these lads, like the ones who were killed fighting for ISIS,

00:19:59.540 the ones who, Saifel Islam, who's done jail for terrorism, Roger Ibrahim, the ginger convert,

00:20:05.060 I used to hang around with him as a kid. So we're not talking about, when you read about terrorists,

00:20:09.060 to some people, this is a million miles away. I went to school with that mug. I queue up next to

00:20:13.860 him in the bank. His sister lives around the corner from me. So this isn't a million miles

00:20:18.340 away from us. So when they, when in 2004, in 2004, I went downtown center, police were there.

00:20:25.140 I said, what is this? How are they allowed to do this? She said, it's free speech. I said, okay,

00:20:30.180 let's see if it's free speech next week. And then the next week I organized my first ever protest,

00:20:34.580 which was called Ban the Luton Taliban. That's what I called it. And...

00:20:38.340 Tommy, can we pause there for one second? Because one thing that I wanted to ask you about,

00:20:42.580 um, and I honestly, I'm not coming at it from a place of judgment, but I do think it's an

00:20:46.900 important part of the conversation. You mentioned the football hooligans, right? Which you were part

00:20:50.980 of. A lot of people, it's a very, it's not a uniquely British thing now that you get these

00:20:55.860 ultras in Italy, you get them in Russia. Yeah, what that's, but, but it is kind of to most people who

00:21:03.300 don't know about it, they really don't know about it. Right? So can you explain the firms and the

00:21:09.060 hooligans? Because you say you go around the country supporting Luton, but it's more than that,

00:21:13.300 right? It's young lads who like to, to get to a football game and have a fight with others,

00:21:18.180 right? Is that fair? That's fair. If you're someone who values free inquiry and independent

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00:22:57.220 Getting ready for a game means being ready for anything, like packing a spare stick. I like to

00:23:02.420 be prepared. That's why I remember 988 Canada's suicide crisis helpline. It's good to know,

00:23:08.340 just in case. Anyone can call or text for free confidential support from a trained responder,

00:23:13.780 anytime. 988 suicide crisis helpline is funded by the government in Canada.

00:23:20.420 That's fair, which is going to sound moronic. Yeah. So to most people watching this, they're

00:23:23.700 going to think, idiots. Yeah. Absolutely idiots. But remember, I'm 42 years old now and I'm a father

00:23:30.260 of three. I was 20. Yeah. I was 18, 17, 16. Young men. Yeah. Young men finding their identity together,

00:23:36.820 which I'd say I found my identity going to football. I found it. Yeah. And when I say I found it,

00:23:41.140 I look at the problem in Lewin and I look at the erosion of our identity as young English men,

00:23:48.100 it's gone. And I'll give an example. When it's St. Patrick's Day in Lewin, there's a three-day

00:23:52.980 festival for St. Patrick's Day. When it's St. Lucian Day, yeah, we have a massive tents, park,

00:23:59.620 fairgrounds, everything. Yeah. When it's Eid, the whole place is locked off, everything. They've got

00:24:05.220 fairs, they've got everything. When it's St. George's Day, it's banned. Yeah. So we're made to feel,

00:24:11.060 ashamed anyway. I remember it was St. George's Day and the local, the school,

00:24:15.380 Icknild High School. Now, do you remember the Trojan horse plot where the Muslims have

00:24:19.540 infiltrated the schools and got on the boards to change? No. So what's his name? Michael Gove

00:24:24.180 was leading on it. He'd done very well trying to expose it. So the Trojan horse plot. So

00:24:29.140 the best head teacher in the school in Icknild, he come out and the girl come in wearing the full

00:24:33.620 niqab and he sent her home. And Sherry Blair represented her. They sued the school. Yeah. And when

00:24:40.100 they sued the school, Anne was redeemed because that girl was, which Sherry Blair represented her,

00:24:45.060 but that girl was the sister of one of the main terrorists in Luton, one of the main extremists

00:24:47.940 in Luton. So then they protest outside school gates and they put pressure on the school. And in the

00:24:52.340 end, Mr. Kelly, I think his name was, who was a great head teacher, one of the best at that school,

00:24:56.740 they ousted him. He had to go because he stood up against the niqab in the school. It's insane.

00:25:00.900 But this was going on, that same school then, a few years later, when it's St. George's Day,

00:25:05.620 they told all the, we've just seen the recent thing with the British Culture Day where the girl

00:25:09.140 got sent home in the Union dress. Did you see this? Yes.

00:25:12.980 That's nothing new, right? So young children in the school in Luton, they sent out letters saying,

00:25:18.180 if anyone brings in the emblem of St. George, on St. George's Day, you'll be sent home. So kids,

00:25:23.940 our parents sent them with just a little pin badge with St. George's flag on it. You're going home.

00:25:28.180 Yeah. Because my mates, kids were at school at school time. So I rang the school. When

00:25:32.500 Pakistan won the cricket, they had a massive celebration in the school. Pakistani flags

00:25:36.820 everywhere. It's our national day. What message are you sending to the children? Now, and all this,

00:25:42.180 the reason why I'm explaining this, because it plays a part, I guess, into us as young men feeling

00:25:46.740 like we don't have an identity in the town. Now, on a Saturday, we'd come together from that estate,

00:25:51.780 that estate, that estate, that estate as young English lads, and we'd go to Luton together and form

00:25:56.580 a brotherhood where we'd travel the country. And yeah, I think I'm quite tribal. I think we are,

00:26:01.780 as men and humans, we're tribal. If you go to certain places in the Amazon now, I bet one tribe

00:26:07.380 fights the other tribe. For no reason at all, just they fight. And that's what it was like growing

00:26:11.540 up in Luton. Our school would fight that school every week. There'd be fights. Our town, and I guess

00:26:17.140 that developed onto our town would fight that town. Our football club would fight that football club.

00:26:21.860 Now, so people understand, because it does sound moronic, speaking about it now, lads go to

00:26:28.100 football. And even if they're not fighting, it's giving them a sense of identity. It's a culture.

00:26:33.140 It's a culture. They're having a good day out. And when men are going to football and fighting,

00:26:38.180 they're not pulling out knives. They're not, you'll get 20 lads, 20 lads in a back street,

00:26:43.060 and they're turning up and having a punch up for each other. Again, I get it. If you're watching it,

00:26:47.220 you think it sounds moronic. But unfortunately, in a town like Luton, that was plagued by Islamic

00:26:52.020 gangs taking over everything, all these migrant gangs taking over everything. Well, on a Saturday,

00:26:57.780 there's 100 English lads on a Saturday. So I used that 100 English lads in 2004 to tell this group,

00:27:05.700 Al-Majra Deen, you're not in the town anymore, lads. And we turned up, and it was called Ban

00:27:10.660 the Luton Taliban. Now, I made leaflets at that time, and I actually went. So before I've done my Oxford

00:27:16.100 Union presentation. Tommy, can I just stop you there? Just to make it clear for people,

00:27:18.740 when you say English lads, it's not white lads, it's white and black lads. No, white and black.

00:27:22.180 Yeah, I don't see. Because people could see. People think, no, I don't see colour. White,

00:27:26.980 black and Asian lads. Yeah. Yeah. We'll seek lads in the group. So I don't see colour anyway.

00:27:33.060 And I've never, sometimes journalists have said that when they've come here and said,

00:27:36.100 bloody hell, there's a lot. I don't see that. I've just grown up in that. White,

00:27:39.460 English or minority in Luton. I've just grown up with that. I'm not bothered.

00:27:43.140 But then, so we'd all come together, and we'd done this demonstration. And I went,

00:27:48.740 when I was doing the Oxford Union presentation, I went into the library. And I went back through

00:27:53.380 all the old newspapers, because stupidly, I stood bare faced with this leaflet. I made leaflets.

00:27:58.900 I went around the whole town and basically said on Saturday, we're coming out against this lot,

00:28:03.220 yeah? Now in the leaflets, my rhetoric has never changed. We're sitting here now.

00:28:07.460 Now, the country's, I think, shifted, totally shifted. And my rhetoric's the same as it was

00:28:15.380 in 2004. So my first demonstration, which I dug the leaflet, they basically put the leaflet that

00:28:20.340 I made on the front page of the Luton News, the newspaper. So I went into the library, got it,

00:28:24.100 to show people at Oxford University. Here's what I said in 2004. Now in 2004, what I said,

00:28:29.460 whites and blacks are being racially and religiously targeted in this town, yeah?

00:28:34.260 They're being attacked violently. The Pakistani gangs, and I named the gang, they're called the

00:28:38.900 Gambinos. Very original lads for Pakistan. But they're gangs called the Gambinos. And they're

00:28:44.900 a hundred strong Pakistani mob from the Muslim community who use heroin. And what I said is,

00:28:49.860 they're using heroin as a weapon against us, yeah? Because they are, right? They're coming

00:28:54.020 into our states with heroin, and they're destroying the states. And in fact, back in, when I was a few

00:28:58.900 years younger, there were little riots in an estate in Luton. And Muslims come from all over

00:29:01.940 the country for these riots, yeah? But it was one estate fighting against them. And that started

00:29:06.180 because they brought the heroin in the estate. They damaged families, and people tried to resist

00:29:10.500 it, yeah? But the police crushed the English lads, basically, at that time. But as this is going on,

00:29:15.060 so the leaflet said, whites and blacks are being religiously and racially targeted. So I named the

00:29:20.420 Gambinos in 2004, and I say that they use heroin to prostitute our youth to then use them in

00:29:27.860 pedophilic gangs. That's grooming. That's now labeled as grooming. This was 2004. And I said,

00:29:34.580 if we know the shops that are doing it, and we know which men are doing it, and we know which

00:29:38.420 businesses are doing it, because they all use the businesses. You know, this is now common practice.

00:29:42.100 We know it's taxi ranks, it's takeaways, but we've known that the whole time growing up.

00:29:46.740 We're looking at it thinking, well, look what they're doing, yeah? Nothing's happening. You don't

00:29:50.580 crush them. You crush us all the time. So at that time, I made the leaflet, and I stood up,

00:29:55.220 and about, I don't know, probably 200 lads turned up. 200 young lads turned up at that day,

00:30:00.500 and they weren't there. The extremist mob didn't turn up that day. I thought it's worked. It's

00:30:05.700 worked, yeah? They're not here. But then it didn't work, because I'd done it bare-faced,

00:30:10.180 as Stephen Yaxley, Lennon, yeah? I stood up, and I'd done it. I read out the leaflet on the town hall,

00:30:16.100 and boy, I was expecting, I don't know what I was expecting, but the fallout from that, probably because

00:30:20.980 I probably brought a lot of heat on the gangs, because I named them, yeah? And this was 2004,

00:30:26.820 and I'll show it at Oxford University's presentation. Fast forward 2007, the Daily Mirror run a national

00:30:31.540 story on chemical jihad, and they named the gang in Luton, who are working with the extremist terrorist

00:30:37.620 groups, funding them, yeah? So they're working hand in hand. The street gangs work with terrorists,

00:30:42.420 which is why when I come out against this, all the young little Pakistani mobs, I was the target

00:30:47.460 after this. I was the target, and if I wanted to go out in the town for the next few years,

00:30:51.540 I had to go out and 20 lads. So I learned very quickly, but I also had a lesson growing up in my

00:30:55.940 life with the Pakistani community, that if you shut, or the Muslim community, if you showed them any

00:31:02.260 weakness, they're going to run all over you. It's like when I started, so if you showed them any fear,

00:31:06.580 they're going to run all over you. There's only one language I understand, there's only one thing

00:31:09.380 they respect, they respect, and it's strength, not cowardice, not appeasement. They actually respect,

00:31:15.220 I have Muslims now shake my hand in the town who don't like me. I don't like you, Tommy. I respect

00:31:19.780 you. You stand on your values. So this is 2004. I organized this protest in my name,

00:31:26.660 and the fallout from it comes at me big. They smashed my mum's house up. I was targeted by them.

00:31:32.420 We had, I'll be just being honest, as young football lads, we had clashes with their gangs

00:31:36.740 then after that for years, for years, yeah? But it got to a sort of truth's point after a few years,

00:31:42.660 because there was clashes either side. It got to a truce point, and I knew some of their gangs,

00:31:48.340 because I went to school with some of them, yeah? But it's like, no, you're not, you're not,

00:31:52.180 you're absolutely taking the piss. And I've seen so much in the, and I'm only giving you a little,

00:31:57.860 little two seconds of growing up in Luton, of what I've seen. All the problems and the wrongdoings,

00:32:02.820 and the, and in Oxford University, I showed there were 68 attacks against, against non-Muslim

00:32:08.900 houses in the, in the area of Bury Park. You've got to watch, if you watch the presentation,

00:32:12.740 you'll see, now the Howards were 88 years old, an old white couple. They don't, they don't repair

00:32:17.540 their windows anymore. You know, they did, they stopped repairing their windows, because they

00:32:20.100 just get smashed again. Palmer, who's rest in peace, because I know the lady died recently,

00:32:24.500 but I know her son, her son's one of the most respected black men in Luton, yeah? Now,

00:32:29.220 and I grew up looking up to the man, yeah? Now he, at that time, his mum's house had been attacked,

00:32:35.140 and the police done nothing. And the reason they're getting attacked, because members of the Muslim

00:32:38.660 community wanted them out, because there were non-Muslims living in the Muslim community.

00:32:42.020 Now there's, there's actually national news stories on this back then. And when we sat,

00:32:45.780 when we went to football, our football hooligan liaison officer, because every football club has a

00:32:50.340 officer whose job it is to understand the hooligans, know who they are, get intelligence. He pulled us aside

00:32:55.620 and said, she's going to tell you honestly, you need 200 men down there. He goes, they're not going

00:32:59.700 to listen to you. You need 200 men. That's our police telling us, nothing's going to happen here,

00:33:04.820 yeah? Unless you get men together. And there was a game against Watchdale. This was going back then,

00:33:08.900 as all these attacks were going on. And about two, three hundred Luton lads come out, and there was a

00:33:12.980 bit of trouble that day. But it was in response to the attacks, the continued attacks. Then the police

00:33:18.020 launched investigations. Then the police started dealing with it. Only then, because they don't otherwise. So this

00:33:24.580 has gone on, 2004, first demonstration. 2009, in between this period, I was an aircraft engineer.

00:33:31.620 I'm then now, by 2009, I'm running a successful plumbing business. I've got a sunbed shop in the

00:33:39.460 town centre. And between me and my wife, I've got seven properties. And I'm doing well. And I had done

00:33:44.100 what everyone else is trying to do. My passion was making money. I had enough money, get out of Luton,

00:33:49.380 like everyone else does. Get out, run, yeah? Get into a village, get into a nice area,

00:33:54.260 set up my family. I had my first child. And then first child, 2008. And then the soldiers

00:34:00.420 homecoming parade in Luton. Soldiers are, it's a Tuesday morning. Soldiers are given the freedom

00:34:05.220 of the city. And again, to make it personal, because it is personal. As Lutonians, it's personal,

00:34:11.460 because it's our town. Every time you hear our town's name, it's due to terrorism. We're fed up

00:34:15.060 of that. Every football away fans sing about our town being full of terrorists. Everything's

00:34:21.060 about terrorism. And then they attacked our soldiers. And in that regiment, which was the

00:34:26.340 Royal Anglians, Scott Muntridge was 26 and he died. He's from our estate. Michael Swain

00:34:31.460 was 19 and lost his legs. And when they've done that, they're then attacked by the same group,

00:34:37.060 Al-Majreddin, that we've already been confronting for years. They're attacked by them. So 2009 comes,

00:34:44.260 and when they're attacked, just to understand, I remember, and bearing in mind at this point,

00:34:49.460 I know who this group are. These are jihadists. These are the Nazis of the millennium. That's

00:34:54.580 who they are. And they're free to do what they want. No one's stopping them. Councils aren't

00:34:58.260 stopping them. Police aren't stopping them. In fact, they're letting them. And that day,

00:35:01.540 I stood in the town, it was Tuesday morning, stood there with my cousin, got down the town hall

00:35:05.700 to show respect for the armed forces, and saw police everywhere. Too many police. What's going

00:35:10.100 on? Saw 30 niqabs all together. Then started spotting the main Muslim radical lads, Saifel

00:35:16.580 Islam, Ibrahim. Started looking and thinking, right, what's going on? And then the police took them

00:35:21.940 through the town hall. They opened up the doors of the town hall, and they took a group of 20 of them

00:35:26.900 and walked them through the town hall. So I'm watching it thinking, what's going on? They walked

00:35:31.140 them through the town hall. So as the soldiers marched down here, which is the back of the town hall,

00:35:35.300 they put the Muslim protesters this far from the soldiers, and let them attack them. They spat in

00:35:42.340 one of the lads' mums faces, soldiers' mums faces. They shouted, butchers of Basra are baby killers.

00:35:47.220 They shouted all this stuff, and done this protest. And there was probably 20 of them there, 60 of them

00:35:51.940 down here, by the town, by Don Miller's bakery, because that was their little meeting, which was

00:35:55.860 where they always are. 60 of them there, but the police actually stopped, because some of our lads got

00:36:01.140 arrested on that day. The police actually stopped 330 of them coming into Luton, off the motorway.

00:36:05.860 So imagine there was 500 of them. Imagine the damage they would have done that day. But this

00:36:09.380 story went worldwide about Luton, and it was that day. And bearing in mind, I'm getting on my life

00:36:14.580 by this point. I'm doing all right. And I remember speaking to my cousin, and speaking to some lads

00:36:18.660 after that, and said, we can't let them do this. Like, they can't get away with this, because if they do,

00:36:25.780 what's next? And we've seen the progression. That same group that attacked the soldiers is the same

00:36:30.500 group that burnt poppies on Armatist Day. It's the same group that Michael Adobalajos was part of,

00:36:35.700 that went from attacking the soldiers. One of the Lee Rigby killers, right?

00:36:38.900 Attacking the soldiers on the street, burning poppies, beheading soldiers. I made a video about

00:36:44.180 Lee Rigby's killer two years before we got, before we done that. We showed him in a video. Here he is

00:36:49.220 in Harrow. And then, so in 2009, this happens. We know who they are. And we said, no, like,

00:36:57.140 enough's enough on this issue. Enough is enough. And do you know what we've done? And that's why

00:37:01.460 I kept asking people, what would you do? This is your town. Anyone watching this? You live in this

00:37:06.580 town. You've seen all these problems. There's a total two-tier policing. Now, two-tier policing is

00:37:11.300 part of national vocabulary. Yeah. But it wasn't. But it was for us. We've always seen it. So do you

00:37:17.460 know what I've done? I organised a protest. But before we'd done any protest, I set up a petition,

00:37:22.580 got three and a half thousand signatures, and I approached the council. And the petition said,

00:37:27.060 ASBO, anti-social behaviour orders, which is what they use. So in our estates, if two kids are

00:37:32.740 continually causing trouble together, they'll give them an ASBO from being together. And then they'll

00:37:37.140 give them a perimeter around the shop so they can't hang around, so that normal people can go

00:37:41.220 to the shop without loads of little hoodies causing mayhem. Yeah? So what we ask for is implement these

00:37:46.340 orders against this group, so that when my mum, or my auntie, or any of our families go down to

00:37:52.260 the town centre, they're not being accosted, recruited, vulnerable men aren't being recruited,

00:37:56.820 because the Stockholm bomber was an innocent Iraqi Muslim who come to Newton University

00:38:00.660 from Sweden, and on Freshers' Week, which is when these groups are active in the universities,

00:38:05.380 he was recruited. And he was on his own. And then he'd end up going and blowing himself up.

00:38:10.020 This is a process of grooming, of radicalisation. So we'd done this petition and said, look, stop them,

00:38:14.900 ban them. The council won't even meet with us. The council just ignored it. And when they ignored it,

00:38:21.220 then I said, right, okay. Why do you think they ignored it, Tommy?

00:38:23.940 They're so scared. Do you know, they've never said no. At this point, I'm looking at them,

00:38:27.460 take them through a town hall, and think, you've never told them no. Like, if I say now,

00:38:32.580 we're going to protest outside East London Mosque, what are the police going to say?

00:38:35.860 No, you can't. Yeah? You can't come outside the mosque on a Friday afternoon,

00:38:39.300 because it's going to cause mayhem. Well, you can't stand in front of our armed forces. If you want

00:38:43.460 to protest those soldiers who were peacemakers, they weren't at war with the War Angler and Regiment,

00:38:48.020 they were training their armies. Yeah? You want to protest that group, go to the government. Yeah?

00:38:54.260 Protest the council. Whatever you want to do. Spitting in their faces on their return home

00:38:59.300 tour of duty. So we were angry, really angry. So I organised, and I made leaflets again.

00:39:07.460 And I said to my cousin, and it's only because there was two of us, because I never...

00:39:11.620 We shook hands. Because you can't go into this one foot. We knew that. Yeah?

00:39:15.780 We can't do this half-eyed. We're either in it, or we're not. And next is a soldier's funeral. I knew

00:39:22.100 that. They've done this today. If they're allowed to carry on. And then there was big tensions in

00:39:27.220 Luton at that time. Big tensions. Like, there was problems going off against them, and against us.

00:39:32.580 And it was like, there was so much trouble going on. But, and then I remember, because there was a,

00:39:39.700 I think there was a, the Salafist mosque in the town, which is the old synagogue. Yeah?

00:39:46.740 Which is where the Islam, which is where the Stockholm Mama went. So as I drove, when I was younger,

00:39:52.980 my Muslim mates would say, that's the problem. And as we're driving the car, that one there,

00:39:58.100 the Yaks, that one there. I said, what? He said, that's the terrorist mosque. So we knew locally,

00:40:02.420 that's the terrorist mosque. But when all this blew up, the main leader of the terrorist mosque,

00:40:07.380 Khadir Bhask was his name, become a chair of the Luton in Harmony programme. So they set up a programme

00:40:13.540 to try and counter our protests, called it Luton in Harmony, and brought the main terrorists and sat

00:40:18.020 him around the tables, one of the men, called him for Harmony. We organised, I organised my first protest

00:40:23.540 over this issue. And we set up a group called the United People of Luton. And we turned up to

00:40:30.020 protest that day. And it was bank holiday. There's two bank holidays in May. So we've done the first

00:40:34.100 bank holiday on the Sunday. Now, we were angry, but it was a community. It wasn't just football lads,

00:40:40.340 because this was an issue that everyone was upset about. So it was, my aunties were there,

00:40:45.060 families were there, kids were there. And I paid the cameraman £450 to come and film everything.

00:40:52.020 And the reason I've done this is because I understand two-tier policing. I've seen it my

00:40:55.060 whole life. So I know what's coming, yeah? The minute we try and come out. So we've turned up,

00:41:00.020 the cameraman's turned up with us, they stop us in the street, put their hands in our pockets,

00:41:03.940 make us take our shoes off, search us, what's your name? And as they're doing this, I said,

00:41:08.580 you didn't do this to them. On that soldiers' homecoming parade, you did not do this to them.

00:41:14.260 I know you didn't, because I watched it. Why didn't you put your cameras in their faces?

00:41:17.300 Why didn't you ask them their names? You just walked them through, yeah? So why are you doing this to us now?

00:41:21.860 We're coming out as a community, and we're trying to get to the war memorial, which is at the other

00:41:25.540 end of the town. And the police kettled us for three hours. They locked us in at the front,

00:41:29.620 locked us in at the back. They come through on a horse, knocked out my mate's teeth,

00:41:33.140 the police did. A little black lad called Isaac took his teeth out. So they kettled. My auntie had

00:41:38.980 to urinate in the street. I remember standing there as women were urinating in the street,

00:41:42.100 thinking, well, Muslim women wouldn't have to urinate in the street. You would never dare

00:41:47.220 lock Muslims in a group like this, yeah? And I went back again to previous protests,

00:41:51.620 because I'd been following this group. They held an anti-Gaza protest, yeah? Which is just a pro-Hamas

00:41:57.140 protest. And in this protest, there's about thousands, thousands coming out of the Muslim

00:42:03.140 community. And it's led by this group. They're leading it. Safer Islam, all the terrorists,

00:42:08.260 they're at the front of it, yeah? They've organised it. And they're going, Khayyuba, Khayyuba, Khayyuba.

00:42:12.180 And I remember thinking, I wonder what that is. So I started looking at it. And Khayyuba was where

00:42:16.580 Mohammed beheaded 600 Jews, raped the leader of the Jewish tribe's wife, married her that night.

00:42:21.860 So I started, I'd gone through a process of understanding a lot of this stuff,

00:42:26.180 when most people weren't understanding it. So I've become knowledgeable on it, thinking,

00:42:30.340 OK, I know who they are. I know what that is. I know what's going on. So we held our protest,

00:42:34.500 and the police just locked us in. And they locked us in, didn't let us get to the warm rule.

00:42:38.180 So I think, will you let them get to the warm rule? And now you won't let us. So first of all,

00:42:43.380 we're angry with them, the Muslim community, and the extremists within it. And after this,

00:42:48.180 it's become more about civil rights. It's become more about, no, you're not doing this to us.

00:42:52.580 So the next, and then, after that first protest, they come to my house, the police did,

00:42:57.540 they raided 14 poppies, yeah? And what they did is, cleverly, which is what they're still doing now,

00:43:02.180 it's their tactic, is to put fear into the community, from speaking out. It's what

00:43:06.100 Keir Starmer just done by weaponising the judiciary after the riots, by Lucy Connolly,

00:43:09.940 Peter Lynch, me. They try and put fear, set as our pool by people, to make sure everyone

00:43:15.460 else shuts up. So when they come in our houses, they went to my mum's, and anyone who got nicked,

00:43:19.700 I wasn't at home, so I didn't get nicked. Anyone who got nicked got given bail conditions,

00:43:23.860 not to enter Luton Town Centre, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, for three months.

00:43:28.020 So then we sat down after, and said, well, that's what we wanted for them. So rather than

00:43:34.100 give it to the terrorists, they've given it to us. And everyone was arrested on public

00:43:37.860 ordered offences, yeah? No one got prosecuted. So these were just, and this become a tactic of

00:43:42.580 the state, this was bullshit arrest to then enforce bail conditions to limit and prohibit your freedoms

00:43:50.260 from protesting and standing up. So then comes the next protest three weeks later, and this is what

00:43:54.580 changed it for us. Because I turned up that morning, I was wanted, as were all the other

00:43:59.460 lads who were banned, and I turned up with 100 balaclavas. And we met at a pub, and it was football

00:44:05.540 lads. And we met up, I gave everyone balaclavas, we all had t-shirts that said, it was a Luton logo,

00:44:10.660 with no surrender to Al-Qaeda. We met up, and again, I bought the cameraman. And I bought the cameraman,

00:44:17.940 I rang the police phenomenously, and said, stay out of the way today. If you, and I'm just giving you

00:44:24.260 a warning, because if you could have lit a match and threw it in the air, I think Luton would have

00:44:28.260 just gone, it was ready, yeah? I've never seen anything like it. And I've grown up in the town

00:44:32.980 my whole life. And I remember at the time, after the first demonstration, I had Pakistani lads

00:44:38.260 ringing me up saying, yaks, these are terrorists, bruv. You're not messing with the street gangs.

00:44:43.300 You're upsetting everyone here. I remember saying, yeah, well, there's 500 of us. Because at the time,

00:44:47.700 there was 500 of us. I said, there's 500 Luton lads, and everyone's had enough of it. We've had

00:44:52.500 enough of the terrorism. We've had enough of the rapes. We've had enough of the heroin.

00:44:55.780 We've had enough. So the second demonstration comes. Balaclavas are given out. We all then

00:45:00.180 go into the town centre. Police attempt to stop it. And I warned them at the time, I said,

00:45:04.580 don't try and stop it, because the town's going to burn. I'm telling you now, just let people get

00:45:09.060 to the War Memorial. Let us have our day at the War Memorial. And they tried to stop it. And then there

00:45:13.300 was running battles through the town. And then the images that then took this to international

00:45:17.300 recognition was men wearing balaclavas with England flags on our town hall steps,

00:45:23.700 which was then seen, which I understand why it was seen. I then took the video of Luton's

00:45:29.380 lads that day. And I went on messaging boards around the country, which is football chat forums

00:45:34.580 at the time. This was before the rise of social media, really. But every football club has a chat

00:45:38.780 forum. So Millwalls, football lads, Tottenham's football lads, Chelsea's football lads, they all have

00:45:44.340 their own forums where they talk. And then put the video up and said Luton are making a stand,

00:45:48.740 basically, against this. And that, and people talked about the tactics at the EDL. This was

00:45:54.820 the united people of Luton. And on that first demonstration, when we all met up, when they

00:45:59.700 kettled us with the second one, I remember we sat in, it was called Brooksy's in the town centre.

00:46:03.860 And I walked in and some big white skinhead lad come in. He said, and he sat down, he goes,

00:46:07.700 are you the organiser? I said, yeah, this is all Luton's lads. And he goes, well, we've heard about

00:46:11.540 what's going on. There's 30 National Front getting off the train station. I said,

00:46:15.220 fucking great. I said, because we're going to smash their heads in lads. And he's like,

00:46:18.740 what? I said, look around this pub. When the National Front come into this town,

00:46:22.340 they're going to get bad. They're going to get run out. And they did get chased out.

00:46:26.020 Tell people about the National Front, because this is one of the big issues with you,

00:46:29.860 Tommy, isn't it, for people who are not educated about this issue, is a lot of people call you

00:46:36.100 far right. And in doing that, now we can talk about the different aspects of your behaviour,

00:46:42.740 some of the street violence and all that, which is an issue, and we'll talk about it.

00:46:46.580 But when they say far right, what they really mean, what they really mean, I think, is that

00:46:52.500 you're racist. You hate black people. You hate brown people. You hate Jews, etc. And the National

00:46:58.100 Front are people who actually are all those things. National Front are all those things. They're Nazis.

00:47:01.860 They hate everyone. And there's never been the presence of those sorts of people within the town

00:47:05.700 of Newman. So people say that about you, but what you're saying is you have always actually fought

00:47:13.060 with and against those people. The whole time. And in fact... Why? Why don't you like the National

00:47:18.260 Front? They're the same as the radical jihadists. It's exactly the same. In fact, they're now coming

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00:48:35.060 In fact, they're now coming together, aren't they? They're now joining together.

00:48:41.540 Yeah.

00:48:42.100 They're now joining together. It's mad. You now see Nick Griffin sitting down with radical Dili Hussain.

00:48:47.220 They both want supremacy. He wants white supremacy. He wants Islamic supremacy. And here they are

00:48:51.220 together, they're basically all coming together just because they hate Jews, and everything's

00:48:54.020 the Jews' fault, yeah? That's what's brought them together now. But at this time,

00:48:58.020 that, and our first, if you dig up the first Luton, United people of Luton, we had NF go to hell on our

00:49:06.500 banners. Because we thought, you know, when you try and do something like this, we knew it would

00:49:10.340 attract certain types. So we made it very clear. When we had our, so this is Luton. We've had these

00:49:16.260 two issues in Luton. All hell's going off. We then watch our, and if you look at the footage, go on.

00:49:21.460 Luton Protest was a YouTube channel, and it's called the United People of Luton. You'll see

00:49:26.020 the first ever protest. And you'll see hundreds of us. And we're standing outside the town hall

00:49:29.860 cheering, we are Luton Town. Everyone's trying. And then I see the leader of the council saying,

00:49:34.500 all these outsiders have come into our town. It's like, we're not outsiders, it's our town.

00:49:39.300 It's our town. And they're taking a piss in the town. So this is all going on.

00:49:43.220 Tommy, one sec, sorry. You've got lots to say.

00:49:45.860 I know.

00:49:46.340 We're going to, which is great. And we want, we've got loads of time as we discussed. So

00:49:50.820 we're just going to jump in every now and again, because there's little bits that we want to.

00:49:54.100 Um, I, I do remember seeing somewhere. I, I haven't fact-checked this to correct me,

00:49:58.580 but something about you joining the BNP or something. What is the truth of that?

00:50:02.900 So 2004, I joined the British National Party. So 2004, which was...

00:50:06.100 Because they are basically the continuation of the national front.

00:50:08.420 They are. Nick Griffin was the leader.

00:50:09.860 Nick Griffin was...

00:50:10.820 They're the political wing of the national.

00:50:12.260 They were. Right.

00:50:12.980 So 2004 was when I held the first protest by Luton to Alabama.

00:50:16.260 Right.

00:50:16.660 Now that time, that's when I started going down the rabbit hole, looking online,

00:50:19.540 for who's talking about this. Right.

00:50:21.220 And to be honest, the only people talking about it was a group called the BNP. Right.

00:50:24.500 The BNP, then we're talking about it and they set, and then we, I think I messaged,

00:50:28.980 and they set up a meeting at a pub called the King Harry pub. And this is documented by Searchlight.

00:50:33.700 Searchlight was a far left magazine. Now Searchlight documented is when the MiGs fell out with the BNP.

00:50:39.780 The MiGs is Luton's football hooligan element. It's called the Men in Gear. Yeah.

00:50:42.740 Right.

00:50:43.380 So we've turned up to this meeting where this is the group that's talking about these issues.

00:50:47.940 Even back in 2004, they were talking about the grooming, you know, and rapes in Bradford

00:50:51.460 and things like that. So they turn up to the meeting and we all turn up and they say,

00:50:54.820 oh, he can't come in, he can't come in, he can't come in. It's like, what?

00:50:58.180 They said, non-whites can't join. So you're fucking joking.

00:51:02.820 So at that point, we said, well, you can't have a meeting in the pub.

00:51:05.460 In fact, you can't operate in any pubs. You can't operate in any pubs in Luton. Yeah.

00:51:09.140 Because that's what Luton is. Our problem, which was my, and you know, when you went on the BNP website

00:51:13.780 at that time, it had 10 points. TV's for old age pensioners. Every point, every point you'd go,

00:51:21.060 I agree with that. I agree with that. I agree with that. Now, at this point, bearing in mind

00:51:24.660 before this, I just, I didn't know the difference between left wing, right wing, and I didn't care.

00:51:29.460 Because I was just, I was a working class kid on a building site, earning money, didn't give a

00:51:34.340 shit about politics, understood Islam, what was going on, but never ventured into politics.

00:51:38.580 I didn't understand there was left wing newspapers and right wing newspapers until I sat at the EDL.

00:51:42.420 And then I got a shock of my life, absolute shock of my life. And I went through this learning curve.

00:51:46.740 And this is kind of before the internet really is what the internet is now. So you can't just like

00:51:51.220 AI search stuff. No, there was nothing. Right.

00:51:54.100 The way to get your message across was get on the street.

00:51:56.420 So you turn up to this meeting of the BNP, you realize they're racist, but you still joined?

00:52:00.900 No, I joined at that point as soon as I come online. Now there was a leaked list. There's

00:52:04.740 a leaked BNP membership list. Oh, you joined online.

00:52:06.740 I joined online. And then you realized. Okay.

00:52:08.260 But then when I realized, so the leaked list shows the membership, say from 2002 to 2008.

00:52:13.300 I joined in 2004 for one year. So I joined up with a year's membership. Don't rejoin.

00:52:17.620 You can see the leaked list. There's no rejoining. Yeah. So at that point, it's like, right,

00:52:21.380 you lot, fuck off. We'll do it our way. Yeah. Which is as, as lads in Luton, we'll do it our way.

00:52:26.500 We organize our protests then. We set up, set up the first protests, had the, had the two protests.

00:52:31.620 Then after they attacked our soldiers, and this still for me is still insane. Yeah. They attacked

00:52:37.620 our soldiers. And then I look online and I'm following this group. They're holding the Islamic

00:52:42.020 Roadshow. So we're looking at them. They were in Wood Green. So they had a street stall in Wood Green,

00:52:46.980 and we went in the back of a lorry, about 40 of us. And we pulled up down the end of the road,

00:52:51.220 jumped out, had a little, there was one in, police were there, but we shut down their stall again.

00:52:56.500 So our tactics at that time was, let's follow these terrorists. Let's see, instead of going

00:53:00.500 to football against Chelsea on Saturday, let's go find these up. That's basically just the truth

00:53:05.460 of what we were doing. Yeah. Let's shut this lockdown. Let's, let's confront them. And remember,

00:53:10.820 the police were letting them, letting them act the way they wanted. Now we now, they become a

00:53:15.140 prescribed terrorist organization by 2010, after one year of the English defensively chasing around

00:53:19.380 the country. Then the government stepped in the home secretary and said, we've got to ban them.

00:53:23.300 Well, you know, you should have banned them 20 years ago. Yeah. You banned them because there

00:53:26.660 was street problems. They only listened to that. So at the time, I understand. So we went, we went.

00:53:32.180 Do you know something? I interrupted you there because what you just said, I think 10 years ago,

00:53:37.380 people would have been like, oh, the police only react when there's street problems.

00:53:43.540 But I can't argue with that now. When I look around at what's happening now, I can't argue with it

00:53:48.580 because they cover up and ignore stuff until people are really angry and then they act on it. I mean,

00:53:55.060 that's just, people can say that's whatever. That's just a fact. If you look at our country now,

00:53:59.940 if you look at the protests outside Micron hotels and all of this stuff, they have been ignoring all

00:54:04.900 this shit until people actually started getting angry. That's just a fact, right?

00:54:08.980 It's a fact. And I'd say since 2001, when the Muslim community rioted in Bradford and the

00:54:13.460 riots spread to Oldham and the riots spread to Stoke. And at that time, those riots,

00:54:18.900 if you look at the cost of the riots, this was after, I think, an old age British pensioner was

00:54:24.980 beaten by a gang of Pakistanis, which provoked 200, again, football lads at the time, I think,

00:54:30.580 from Oldham. I think they marched into an area, a Muslim area, which then triggered race riots

00:54:35.860 where entire places burned through Bradford. They come out of Bradford and burn everywhere.

00:54:39.780 Since that point, if you look at it, it looks like the government just went,

00:54:43.940 OK, Muslims, do what you want. And the Muslim leaders, which they always do, and I've seen

00:54:49.620 example after example of this, which we'll get onto, they just threaten violence. They just say,

00:54:53.460 we won't be able to control our youth. You've got to stop these people. You've got to arrest him,

00:54:58.100 stop him, shut down this. And then the government just go, we'll just pander to them. So you've seen,

00:55:04.660 and then now the country's seen it. You saw the Hamas riots. You saw them calling for jihad on the

00:55:08.740 streets, literally calling for jihad. And then the police are putting out a statement saying jihad

00:55:13.300 has lots of different meanings. Not when it's coming from his butt to here, it doesn't. Because

00:55:17.220 that man's saying it is part of a prescribed terrorist organization in most countries, but not

00:55:22.020 this pathetic country. It is now. But it wasn't at the time. Again, it is now. Why now? Why wasn't

00:55:28.180 it for the last 20 years? His butt to here, every Islamic society in every university around this country,

00:55:33.380 was his butt to here. So kids are going to university and a terrorist group, because they're

00:55:37.860 now a terrorist group, but they've always been a terrorist group. Just our weak pathetic government

00:55:41.300 didn't prescribe them, because they didn't want to upset people. It's like mad. You don't upset them

00:55:44.900 until they're calling for jihad, until they're openly saying the madness that we know they've been

00:55:49.460 promoting anyway. They've made universities total no-go zones for certain communities,

00:55:53.860 and whilst jihad runs. So at that time, this is going on. We look at the Islamic group. We then,

00:56:01.460 I see a young boy called Sean. He was 11 years old. He's in Birmingham, and they get him up on

00:56:06.180 stage, about 200 of them. I used this video in my Oxford Union presentation just to show people,

00:56:10.660 look at what happened, because there's a story to what happened. Before the English Defence League

00:56:14.420 was born, you have to understand the 15 years in Luton. Then you have to understand what went on with

00:56:18.180 the UPL. Then you have to understand that the government, the local community council ignored us,

00:56:22.340 suppressed us. Then you have to understand the police attacked us, silenced us,

00:56:25.940 bullshit charges to control us. Then comes the English Defence League, and it only come because

00:56:32.500 Sean was 11 years old, and they got him up on stage, and they had a banner saying Jesus was

00:56:37.060 a Muslim in the city centre. Imagine we had a banner saying Muhammad was a Christian, or something

00:56:42.420 that would upset them. You just couldn't do it. Anyway, they'd kill you, but the police would stop you

00:56:46.420 and all. But they had Jesus was a Muslim, hundreds of them screaming Allah Akbar whilst they converted

00:56:50.580 an 11-year-old boy who was out with his mate shopping in the town center. And I remember

00:56:53.780 watching it going, right, they can't do that, right? They cannot be doing this in city centres

00:56:59.300 to kids. So we then went, as a group of Luton lads, we said, right, called ourselves the English

00:57:04.580 Defence League, I made t-shirts, we all wore them, and we went to Birmingham for our first ever,

00:57:09.940 and it was, if you watch up, and this is where I learned a lot about the media, we went to Birmingham

00:57:14.420 as a group of 50, and we got run and smashed everywhere, yeah? Lads were getting beaten unconscious on

00:57:19.300 the floor, there was newspaper clippings of men with blood, English men with blood all over them,

00:57:23.300 and there must have been a mob of a thousand Muslims. And the police put us in a pub, yeah?

00:57:28.100 And we were in this pub for three hours, and they couldn't clear the streets. So then the police end

00:57:31.620 up getting us buses. They go and take buses to try and get us out of there. They bring in buses,

00:57:36.180 all the bus windows go through, and as we get out on these buses, everyone's getting smashed to hell.

00:57:40.580 We're looking down the side streets, and it's bricks littered everywhere. So I think they've been

00:57:44.420 rioting for hours, yeah? We've been rioting for hours. And our banners read, Nigerian Christians,

00:57:51.300 we stand with you as victims of jihad. Because again, I'm down the rabbit hole at this point,

00:57:55.300 and I'm organising it, and I saw that five Christian churches were blown up on Christmas

00:57:58.900 Day, and it didn't even make our news. And I'm thinking, Christians are being massacred.

00:58:03.620 Christian Nigerians are being butchered, and nothing seems to be... Why is no one speaking about

00:58:07.940 this? Where's the Christian leadership in this country? And I'm going down all these rabbit holes,

00:58:11.540 thinking, what's going on? So we'll go to Birmingham, and our banner said, Muslim, no problem,

00:58:15.460 because I hadn't gone down the rabbit hole that much on the reality of Islam. I'd just been looking

00:58:19.300 at groups. Muslim, no problem, extremist Muslim, big problem. But what happens is, Salma Yaqub,

00:58:24.660 which we didn't know, Salma Yaqub went in a mosque, and she told the crowds of Muslims that the BNP,

00:58:31.700 the National Front, and the racists were here to attack them, which was us, 50 lads, yeah? So they come out,

00:58:36.980 and they rioted, but no one spoke. I remember watching it, thinking, well, we've come here about

00:58:41.220 Sean, because we had banners. What about Sean's rights? We've come here about this Christian

00:58:44.820 kid who's been converted, and no one's even spoke about it. So no politician spoke about it,

00:58:48.420 police didn't speak about it, no one mentioned it. We were called racist, we were called far-right,

00:58:51.380 and we were bad. That's basically it. So I watched this, and then after this, I saw,

00:58:56.100 this is how the EDL developed. From 50 men, these images went all over the country, yeah? And people

00:59:01.460 were talking about bloody Luton went to Burma today and got bad, yeah? And when I say people,

00:59:06.020 I guess, football elements in clubs we're talking about. Then there's a Christian graveyard,

00:59:11.620 a church has been bought in Longsite in Manchester, and they're just bulldozing over the headstones.

00:59:16.900 I remember them watching that going, well, you ain't doing that either, yeah? That's insane.

00:59:21.140 So we then said, right, we're coming from Birmingham, we're now the English Defence League

00:59:25.300 are coming to Manchester. And that was a real changing moment, because when we turned up in

00:59:30.020 Manchester as a group of 50, 2,000 young men were there. 2,000 young men were there like that,

00:59:35.700 because they'd watched the videos of the Muslims smashing everyone, and men who were not going to

00:59:39.620 be smashed, that's how it started, who were going to defend other English men at that time, which is,

00:59:44.740 so people talk about, well, the English Defence League was a bit of an explosion. I said,

00:59:48.180 after what happened to us in Birmingham, it was never going to be female school teachers and nurses

00:59:52.900 that were coming out on the street, yeah? And although, and I went for four years leading this group,

00:59:58.820 and I think we're very lucky, and I decided to leave myself because I felt it wasn't,

01:00:04.420 it was counterproductive to continue marching into cities. I understood then maybe we weren't

01:00:08.900 having the right effect, because maybe we were giving the radicals and the extremists the ammunition

01:00:15.620 for some other Muslims to join them to say, look at this lot, yeah? But we went around the country,

01:00:20.020 and remember at this time, when I left Luton, and I started meeting families and people

01:00:24.420 and understanding Jesus Christ. In every town and city, our daughters are being raped.

01:00:27.460 In it, what I've seen in Luton, I'm then sitting with families, and again, I'll tell this story,

01:00:33.060 we had our Blackburn demonstration, we went from Manchester to Stoke to Blackburn. Blackburn was

01:00:37.620 chaos, but there was thousands. And I went the night before and sat with a family whose 12 year old

01:00:42.020 daughter had been missing for three days, and there were 16 year old brothers there. And they're all,

01:00:45.780 they're crying, the family are crying. And then when we went to the demonstration,

01:00:49.620 there's trouble flaring with the police. And I remember going down the front of that

01:00:52.180 demonstration to try and calm the trouble. And who's at the front fighting the police?

01:00:56.260 A 16 year old brother. I'm thinking, who am I even selling? I've just sat with that family last

01:01:00.820 night. The police ain't doing nothing. His daughter, his sister's missing for days. So that level of

01:01:05.940 anger, and the reason, people talk about the phenomenon of the English Defence League at the

01:01:10.100 time, yeah? Because we went from here, one day, to within six months, we had divisions in every town

01:01:15.220 and city, and we had the largest street protest movement in the Europe scene. And we didn't plan it,

01:01:19.860 we didn't have control of it. The police had no idea or intelligence on it. So it just went home

01:01:25.860 across the whole country. And why did it go home across the whole country? Because everyone,

01:01:29.780 if you just look at Rotherham, 1,400 victims, well, those 1,400 victims have probably got four

01:01:33.780 family members each. That's 10,000 people just in Rotherham who have been directly evicted by the rape

01:01:37.620 of gangs in that town. So when all these people have been silenced and scared to talk about it,

01:01:42.900 people used to whisper about Islam. All of a sudden, you've got 3,000, 4,000 men walking through the

01:01:47.300 streets singing, we are infidels, and we've had enough of this, yeah? And I go back, and again,

01:01:53.140 when we say what was the, I can look at mistakes we made, look at errors I made, my personal behaviour

01:01:59.460 at times. I can look at all that, and you learn a lot from it. But I just look at the graph. And if

01:02:04.420 you do a graph, and you set 2009, which is the formation of the English Defence League, and you have

01:02:09.940 a line like this for the Muslims who are arrested for rape of children in gangs, and the line goes like

01:02:15.060 this. The English Defence League forms, and again, this is the only time they act when there's a

01:02:19.860 resistance, yeah? Unfortunately, it just goes through the roof. Yeah. They realised behind,

01:02:24.820 in corridors of power, up and down this country, in government, they all of a sudden realised,

01:02:29.380 we've got to do something, yeah? And in fact, Andrew Norfolk, I don't speak ill with a dead man,

01:02:34.340 because I know he's died recently, but this is his words. He knew his words in an interview.

01:02:41.300 He knew the gangs were operating, he knew the victims were young white girls, and he was too

01:02:45.140 scared to report on it. Along comes the English Defence League, and what he says is,

01:02:49.780 we needed to take it back from the far right, yeah? Far right, what you mean by far right is

01:02:54.980 families, fathers and Englishmen who ain't backing down on this issue, yeah? And we went through,

01:03:01.060 our daughters are not, in the end, our banners said from 2009, our daughters are not allowing me,

01:03:05.620 yeah? Because that's how they've been treated, literally, and no one's doing anything about it.

01:03:10.340 So then, arrests start going through the roof, the government start listening, and when I say

01:03:14.980 they're listening, they were listening, I had, when we set up the English Defence League, we're in Luton,

01:03:19.860 and they called me for a meeting, the council did, and I go to the meeting, and they've got about 10 of

01:03:24.100 them, and they had cameras set up like this, and they had a Labour baroness, she was baroness from

01:03:28.740 the Labour government, a black lady, and they sat me down and said, tell us, what's wrong?

01:03:34.900 So I tell you what, you want to know what's wrong? And then I went through and I said, where do you

01:03:38.020 live? She said, St Albans, where do you live? Hitchin, these are the people who represent us,

01:03:42.820 where do you live? Not one of them lived in Luton. I said, you're not, none of you are even

01:03:46.020 Lutonians, yeah? And Mohammed was there, and I said, you live in Berry Park, don't you,

01:03:50.020 bro? He said, yeah, I do, yeah, I said, I know you do. So you represent your community,

01:03:53.620 you're on the ground in your community, and you know what's going on in your community. You lot have

01:03:57.220 got nothing in common with me, or any of us, in fact, yeah? None of you are probably working

01:04:02.740 class either. You're middle class, you've come into the council, you're in high role,

01:04:06.100 100 grand a year, and you're the people making decisions. So then they said, well, what's wrong?

01:04:10.340 I said, okay, you see this park, and I took them up to Farley Hill in Luton, and this is a problem

01:04:15.380 across, this isn't just, what I've seen in Luton is mirrored for every town to see, yeah? The problems

01:04:20.820 of the gangs, the problem of the drugs, the problems of the police, the problems of appeasement,

01:04:24.100 but the problems of funding and neglect of the working class, yeah? So I took them up to Farley

01:04:28.820 Hill, and I said, you see that park there that was built in 1960? This is a predominantly white

01:04:32.980 council estate. So let's go down the Muslim community. So we drove down the hill, that's

01:04:37.060 a £330,000 state-of-the-art park. Why? How come they've got that and we've got that? How come?

01:04:43.300 How come, because they class the Muslim community as a regeneration community, how come their community

01:04:48.020 centres are free? How come for their kids to go play football is free, and ours it's not? We have to pay £5 each,

01:04:53.780 which we don't have, yeah? So everything's built for this, and nothing's built for this. And if you

01:04:58.580 look at the achievements of working class kids now, white working class, the biggest academic

01:05:02.020 underachievers, there's a reason for that, and it's what I've experienced my whole life. It's the

01:05:05.620 two-tier policing, the two-tier funding, the two-tier council, the acceleration for this community,

01:05:10.420 and the ignoring and neglect of this community. So there's so many different things that played

01:05:14.900 into it, but the English Defence League went bang. We travel around the country, I think in hindsight now,

01:05:21.540 now. We're lucky no one was killed. We're lucky there weren't a sectarian conflict when, I think

01:05:26.580 in 2014 was it, six Muslims got caught with guns, bombs, IEDs on the way to kill us. They got 30 years

01:05:32.420 in prison. All the, that, if they would have successfully targeted the English Defence League

01:05:36.500 demonstration, this country would have blown up. So, and I think, so I get to 2014, I have a refreshing

01:05:41.860 moment in jail at the time as well, thinking about my life, where's it heading, what's going on,

01:05:45.700 what's our, what's our objectives. And at that point, I decided to leave the street protest element.

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01:05:58.340 Defence League. Yeah. Rightfully so, yeah, because some of it was moronic, yeah. But we were never

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01:08:22.900 Well, this is the issue, isn't it, Tommy? And it speaks to, you know, the reason we had to postpone

01:08:29.780 the interview, right? Because I think, I don't know, tell me what you think, but I think partly

01:08:36.020 the way you've been treated historically is by class. I don't think anyone can deny that, right?

01:08:40.740 Because you're making the same points as Douglas Murray. You know, Douglas speaks very, very, very well.

01:08:47.300 You do too, in your own way, right? But you make the same points. But the difference is,

01:08:52.180 Douglas is never on camera punching people. Do you know what I mean? And so I think it's partly

01:08:57.540 about class, but partly it's also about that element of it. This is why I asked you about the

01:09:00.980 football hooligan stuff, because I think a lot of people, I tell you my opinion, right? Because we

01:09:05.300 talked about this before, before we started. We haven't had you on for a long time, even though

01:09:10.500 a lot of people have wanted us to. And it's always the concern for people who have an audience,

01:09:14.820 right? Which is, I think the point you're making on many, many issues are incredibly important. And

01:09:21.300 much more than that, you've been proven right. Let's just be honest about it, right? On the

01:09:25.700 grooming gangs, on the two-tier policing and all of these things that you're talking about. But the

01:09:30.260 worry always is, is we can all feel now, the countries are, I mean, there's a fever pitch, right?

01:09:36.820 We can all feel it. And the question for all of us is, what is it that we are amplifying?

01:09:42.260 What it, where, where are we trying to take this? Do you know what I mean? So when people see you

01:09:46.500 getting involved in all these physical altercations and fights, and you know, you're standing there,

01:09:50.980 some guy's been knocked out. The worry for a lot of people is, I might agree with what he's saying,

01:09:56.340 but, but, but by pursuing this further, are we actually increasing the risk of a lot of violence?

01:10:02.820 And that's a worry. Do you see what I'm saying?

01:10:05.540 I totally understand. So, so, so people understand, if I hadn't had the upbringing I'd had,

01:10:10.340 and I hadn't grown up basically off the streets of Luton, then the first punch in the nose I got,

01:10:14.980 and the first threat to my life, I'd have run away. And I would never would have stood in the face of

01:10:18.740 Islam. I never would have stood and continued saying, no, no, no. Yeah. It was my upbringing that

01:10:24.020 done that. And my background had done that. But there's not one single image of me or video of me

01:10:28.820 being an aggressor. Yeah. I'm defending myself. So for example, last week, the incident last week,

01:10:33.860 I'm not lucky enough to have a half a million pound security like Nigel Farage. Yeah. I challenged

01:10:37.460 Nigel Farage to walk the country with no security and tell me he, you won't end up seeing him getting

01:10:42.020 attacked. We've seen him get an egg on him, even when he's got 20 security. Yeah. Well,

01:10:45.780 go and walk through the towns that I walk through. I walk everywhere on my own, lads. Yeah. Everywhere.

01:10:49.300 So last week, as a perfect example, is I'd been out in London and I uploaded pictures. There

01:10:53.780 were some lovely encounters with Muslim lads. Everything was good. I spent the whole day in London. I was

01:10:57.780 in Parliament Square. I had Brian Rose podcast. I'm going about my business. And unfortunately,

01:11:03.940 I've had to for 15 years. I've been beaten unconscious in Essex. I've been beaten in Luton.

01:11:10.020 I've had to sit my kids down. I remember my face was rearranged. Yeah. Absolutely rearranged.

01:11:14.100 A car pulled over because I was, I'd been getting jumped on on the side of the street by a gang of

01:11:17.540 Pakistanis. And the car, if the car, the car driver said when he, when I woke up, if I didn't pull over,

01:11:22.660 you'd be dead. They were jumping on you nonstop. And then my face was out. Yeah. I remember

01:11:26.740 having to tell my kids. It was just before Christmas. My kids are only this big. So I

01:11:30.180 said, I got kicked in the face by Santa's reindeer. So I remember having to sit these stories down

01:11:36.420 and for too long, I said, I'm not a punchback. I'm not a punchback. So for example, last week,

01:11:43.540 I wish I had security that could intervene and tell people to stand back and don't start on him.

01:11:47.940 But for example, this gentleman now, unfortunately, there's been time and time again where I've had the

01:11:53.060 need to defend myself. And I'm not going to apologise for being a man either. Yeah. I will

01:11:58.020 defend myself if I'm put. And you know, for too many years, you know, when I started the English

01:12:01.460 Defence League, I realised, damn, the police want to get me. Prison's a dangerous place for me.

01:12:04.980 And I sort of had my hands be on my back because how I would have reacted, and I had to change how

01:12:09.380 I'd react. How I would have reacted as a young man in Luton with someone calling me a cunt,

01:12:13.460 I'd probably have banged him out as a kid. Yeah. I probably wouldn't have tolerated that.

01:12:17.140 Then I realised, well, I have to tolerate some. Yeah. Yeah. I've got one. And I learned very

01:12:21.860 quickly to use my mouth rather than my hands. But as I become this figure that has to tolerate

01:12:26.820 people who have an, and I don't blame even the gentleman last week. I don't blame him for having

01:12:31.540 a hatred of me. Yeah. Because he has a hatred built of me. What happened, Tommy? What happened

01:12:36.100 was I walked through the train station and now I've seen the CCTV as well. Yeah. When I say this was the

01:12:40.420 most scary week of my life, there's been an incident. I sent you the voice note. Yeah.

01:12:46.020 Yeah. So I'm walking through. And what I now know is a gentleman steps off the train at St. Pancras.

01:12:52.900 So he's ready to leave St. Pancras. I come into St. Pancras and I go to get my train. He sees me

01:12:57.700 and he beelines for me. He follows me, but he don't just follow me. He gets here in my face. Yeah.

01:13:02.420 He's in my face. He's confronting me, telling me he'll end me, telling me how little I am,

01:13:06.500 screaming at me. I mean, screaming at me. Yeah. Screaming at me.

01:13:09.860 And I'm the whole time just going, mate, fuck off. And I do warning multiple times. I said,

01:13:14.500 look, and as I was watching, I'm paranoid anyway. I've just come out of seven months

01:13:18.740 since solitary confinement. Yeah. I'm pretty on edge. I remember for the last couple of months,

01:13:22.980 I'm not myself anyway. I know that. Yeah. I know that. So I don't feel myself just the two.

01:13:27.860 Well, in fact, you did ask to postpone our interview one time because you didn't feel right.

01:13:31.300 Because I don't feel right. Because I felt, and I remember going into London to see some

01:13:35.700 a lady who was terminally ill. God bless her. She's died now. I remember going in to see her.

01:13:40.180 And I was like, I'm ready to blow here. Yeah. I'm ready to blow. But I've been sat in a cell

01:13:45.300 for seven months on my own. And then I've been bang, thrown out. So I had all this. So I took,

01:13:49.620 I made the decision to take a back seat for two weeks. I took my son away, played paddle,

01:13:54.100 walked daily, routine. I needed routine. I've got all this. But as this gentleman comes up to me,

01:13:58.900 he's aggressive. He's threatening. And what a lot of people, and I'm so relieved because as this has

01:14:04.340 gone on, basically, he follows me for two minutes. And he's getting him away. And I'm trying to get

01:14:08.820 around him. And I get away from him once. And he comes back after me again. And then I say to him,

01:14:13.540 mate, if you come back in with my space, I'm going to defend myself. Because in my mind,

01:14:17.380 he was just trying to get close enough to snake me. That's what I was thinking the whole time. I

01:14:20.900 know what you're doing. But I know what you're doing. So I was trying to move back. And I get

01:14:24.740 to the top of the escalators at the stairs. And he's following me. So now I think, well,

01:14:28.420 he'll kick me down the stairs. Yeah. I'm going down to a train. He'll kick me in front of me.

01:14:31.700 And he was a big fella. If you look at it, he was a much bigger fella. It's not hard to be bigger

01:14:35.220 than me. But he was a big fella. I then step back to let him go. So I go, you fucking go. Yeah,

01:14:39.940 you go down the stairs. But he doesn't go down the stairs. He gets to the top of the stairs,

01:14:42.980 and he turns on me. And at that point, which this is the problem we have, at that point,

01:14:48.260 let's just say there is a recording. Yeah, there is a recording that has exactly what he's saying.

01:14:53.700 Yeah. Now, the police are not probably aware of this. They don't have this. Right. So there is

01:14:58.580 a recording of exactly what he's saying. It makes very clear who the aggressor is.

01:15:02.820 It makes very clear who's threatening who. Yeah. Now, at this point, I just know,

01:15:07.700 because things happen quick, don't they? Yeah. This has all happened quick to me.

01:15:10.980 I know I've had to defend myself. He's ended up asleep on the floor. I've only hit him once. Yeah.

01:15:17.300 I've pushed him. And as he continued to come at me, the whole time I'm going backwards. But

01:15:21.300 I couldn't really remember at the time or straight afterwards. So as soon as this has happened,

01:15:26.180 he don't look in a good state. Yeah. I'm thinking, right, I'm in London underground. I'm on my own.

01:15:30.660 Crowds are going to come. This ain't going to be good. So I leave. As soon as I leave,

01:15:34.660 I contact the police, which is the recording you would listen to. Contact the police and say,

01:15:37.860 look, this has happened. I've been walking. I've been accosted. I've been threatened.

01:15:42.020 I've tried to get away multiple times. I had no option, right? I don't think I want to be out fighting.

01:15:47.060 So I don't want to be out... Well, I do, though, Tommy. Yeah, do you?

01:15:49.540 You're a football hooligan, right? No, I'm 42 years old.

01:15:53.380 But do you see what I'm saying, right? I see what you're saying.

01:15:55.140 Have you seen Trainspotting? No. I have years ago, but...

01:15:58.260 Do you remember there's a character in that called Begbie, right, who's always starting fights?

01:16:01.540 Yeah, yeah. And I don't know if this is true of you, but I'm going to be honest, from the outside...

01:16:05.940 Yeah. It does look a bit like that's your person. You like him, like...

01:16:12.180 No, but I don't. Do you see what I'm saying?

01:16:14.100 Do you know the feeling for me? I'm not big. Do you know the feeling for me?

01:16:17.220 So when he come up here, I was startled, yeah? And there may be times when people watch me, yeah?

01:16:21.940 Yeah. And I may seem confident, right? Because I have to seem confident.

01:16:24.980 Of course. But at the same time, I'm shitting myself. Every time I go in jail, I'm shitting myself.

01:16:28.900 When I walk down the street sometimes and fall at stop, I'm thinking, for fuck's sake.

01:16:32.820 But again, I've learned there's only one language people understand. Right.

01:16:35.300 So there's only one language...

01:16:36.580 But do you see, all I'm saying is, the only reason I'm challenging you is, I think you're someone...

01:16:42.100 Look, 500 years ago, right? The country would be desperate for people like you, right?

01:16:48.980 Because you'd be on the front line fighting some fucking war, right? You're a warrior.

01:16:52.820 So when you say, I don't want to be fighting people, I don't believe it.

01:16:56.420 Well, if I wanted to be fighting people, I could have a fight every day, because people say things to me every day.

01:17:00.260 I don't want to be fighting people. Least of all, a drunk idiot at a train station. All I wanted to do was get home.

01:17:05.300 Now, what this developed into was the worst week of my life, because obviously this happened at the train station.

01:17:10.180 I've contacted the police, said, look lads, what do you want from me? Let me know what I need to do.

01:17:13.860 I'm up for an interview. I'm telling you, he was the aggressor. I've had to do this, yeah?

01:17:19.380 I contact the police for that. I then go home, and then I'm seeing things develop, and blood transfusions.

01:17:26.340 He didn't have blood transfusion. They made it look like he's dead. Have you ever seen forensic tents?

01:17:30.020 Like forensic tents, full boiler suit officers. I'm thinking, oh, he's dead. He's dead.

01:17:35.940 And then I'm thinking, Jesus Christ. And then I think, there's not going to be any CCTV.

01:17:41.060 They're going to get rid of the CCTV. This is what I'm thinking, because I don't trust the system.

01:17:43.620 I think they're going to get rid of the CCTV. They're going to get rid of it.

01:17:46.420 And then I look and think, right, I know there's a recording of how this, of this last moment.

01:17:52.340 I know there is. There's a recording. What do you mean? How do you know?

01:17:56.820 Because there is a recording, yeah? There's a recording. We'll see if it goes to court,

01:18:01.300 because the recording will get played. What I'm saying is, the witnesses, the witnesses,

01:18:04.980 because, so, the witness statements, am I allowed to talk about words?

01:18:08.820 I've got a bad condition that I can't identify the witnesses, but the witnesses

01:18:12.340 say stuff that didn't happen. And it's on the fucking recording, right?

01:18:16.900 And guess what? The witnesses don't like me. Don't like me. Even the police officers said after

01:18:22.260 interview, do you think maybe their negative opinion of you is what's made them

01:18:25.700 say this? Because when I get to the police interview, I've obviously contacted the police,

01:18:30.660 and this is where it's all mad. The media are chasing me down. They're in gyms,

01:18:35.140 they're at people's houses looking for me in Tenerife. I'm not on the run. They're telling

01:18:38.900 everyone I'm on the run. I've been in contact with the police the whole time. I've told the

01:18:42.020 police I'm coming back on Monday, because my flight booked was already to come back on Monday.

01:18:45.860 So I'm coming back into Manchester Monday. They said, can you come back into London?

01:18:48.660 So I said, OK, I'll change my flight. I'll be on this flight going into Luton at this time.

01:18:52.260 So I give them the details. I then turn up, and there's police everywhere. And I'm thinking,

01:18:56.420 well, I've arranged to meet you, lads. And then they're like, are you surprised to see us?

01:18:59.380 I said, well, I'm not surprised to see you, because it's me that told you I'm here.

01:19:02.580 But when I get to the police interview, bearing in mind at this point, I've had to ring my kids

01:19:06.340 on FaceTime, cry my eyes out, saying, kids, I'm gone. I'm watching what's being said.

01:19:11.940 I think they're going to remind me. A judge is just going to say, put him in jail. I'll sit

01:19:16.900 in jail now on solitary for a year. GBA Section 18, that's 10 to 12 year sentence. I think I'm

01:19:22.340 going to spend five, six years. I'm finished. My life's over. So for this week, I'm thinking,

01:19:25.540 my life's over, because I've been accosted, threatened and attacked, and I've had to defend

01:19:30.260 myself. It's like, so when people say, there are images, there's an image of me in Hitchin,

01:19:35.540 I don't know if you've seen the video, where some young hooded Gambian migrants were coughing

01:19:41.140 in an old couple's face. I don't know if you've seen this. They attack an old couple during COVID,

01:19:44.900 give her a black eye. I'm with my kids. I get out of the car, I end up fighting three of them.

01:19:49.140 So yeah, again, maybe if I was like 90% of the other men in England, I'd have drove off and

01:19:54.260 pretended I didn't see it. Maybe. And the same with threatening me. So if you're going to come

01:19:59.620 up to me for threatening me and want to commit violence on me, I'm going to defend myself.

01:20:05.540 I don't want to. I don't want to. And when you say football violence, just so people understand

01:20:09.460 again. So people understand the football element in it. Lads who go to football have usually got

01:20:15.540 good jobs. They work five days a week. They're good people. They're working class men, but they

01:20:20.100 don't mind a rival punch up with other lads. It's not like they're out robbing people, out terrorizing

01:20:25.380 people, or 20 of them are jumping one person. If 20 lads started booting one lad at football,

01:20:30.100 the other lads wouldn't let it happen. They wouldn't let it happen. I know it sounds mad. I remember going to

01:20:35.060 Bristol. We went to Bristol and there was 11 of us and 60 of them. This one I was probably 18 or

01:20:40.020 something. There was a big fight on the bridge. One of our lads got knocked out. We've all had

01:20:43.380 to give it legs. And then we've rung his phone and the Bristol lads have answered it. We said,

01:20:46.820 we've got him here. He's in the pub with us, right? And I said, is he all right? They said,

01:20:50.340 yeah, we'll drop him a meter. And they've dropped him off. So there's like...

01:20:53.860 I see what you're saying. I guess the only reason I was challenging it is it hard...

01:20:59.780 I'm not judging, Tommy, genuinely. But I'm just saying my honest opinion, right? And we can disagree

01:21:05.060 about it. When you say you don't want to get in a fight, I'm like, Tommy, you spent most of your

01:21:10.420 youth going to football to have a fight. And now you're sitting here saying you don't want to get

01:21:16.500 in a fight. I don't want to get in a fight with random people walking down the street. And most of them,

01:21:21.140 and I'll give you another example. There's a lad called Bob, yeah? So I'm out in Hitchin.

01:21:25.460 Hitchin's lovely, by the way. Different world. And I realised there's places outside Luton when

01:21:29.460 I was back in. I thought, Jesus, what I think's normal is not normal. I thought growing up,

01:21:34.100 this is normal. This violence is normal. This is normal. Everyone has aggression.

01:21:38.660 If you look at someone, you might be in a fight. I went to Hitchin. What a lovely place.

01:21:43.300 I thought... I went to Hitchin and I was out and this bloke went online and he put,

01:21:47.860 anyone who wants to attack, get Tommy Robinson, he's in this pub. Yeah, I was with my friend

01:21:52.580 and both our partners. When I left the pub, there's six lads waiting. I get rushed.

01:21:57.060 They come at me again. I catch him. This attack, I get a blood clot. So this gentleman this week had

01:22:02.500 a blood clot. I had a blood clot here. I had to go have an operation. This happens. I then go,

01:22:06.980 I go home and on the, on the, on the business ownership hub of pubs in Hitchin, because they're

01:22:12.180 all part of some group. They're all saying the far-right racist Tommy Robinson was in Hitchin

01:22:16.340 fighting last night. And one by one, they're going, he's barred. He's barred. He's barred.

01:22:20.580 I'm thinking, I've never caused a problem in Hitchin. How am I getting barred? I got attacked.

01:22:24.420 So I've gone to the pub and said, how are you barring me? I didn't do anything wrong last night.

01:22:27.700 I got rushed or it was two days later. So I found the gentleman who said this and I found his address.

01:22:32.980 And I went to his house. It's in Letchworth. Knocked on the door. Sister answered. She said,

01:22:37.220 what the fuck are you doing here? I said, tell Bob I'm here. Tell him to come outside. This is the

01:22:41.060 man who promoted violence against me. He wouldn't come outside. He shut the door. So I put my phone

01:22:44.500 number through the letterbox, leave my phone number there. And then I go home and I put a picture of

01:22:48.660 him on my, on my social media at the time. I said, you need to call me, mate. Yeah. And now I get a

01:22:52.580 text message. Sorry, Tommy, I was drunk. Yeah. Tongue in cheek moment. So it's not a tongue in cheek

01:22:57.140 moment. I got violently attacked. You need to see me, mate. Yeah. I said, well, I'm just going to come back

01:23:01.140 round. All right. So he agreed to meet me next day in Cafe Rouge in Hitchin. So I've walked into Cafe Rouge and he sat

01:23:06.100 there with his two little stead heads. He's an Asian lad. Two little juice heads. And I said,

01:23:10.660 come outside. And they said, you can talk in here. I said, shut up. If I wanted to get him,

01:23:13.540 I'll get him. Yeah. I said, so just come outside. All right. And as he comes outside,

01:23:16.740 my mate's waiting for the camera. I said, tell the camera why I should be violently attacked.

01:23:20.420 And he's like, I said, I got violently attacked because of you. Yeah. But you're calling me the thug.

01:23:25.540 Yeah. You've incited violence against me. Why should I be attacked? He goes, well, you hate the

01:23:28.820 immigrants. I said, okay, let's start there. I don't hate the immigrants. My mum was an immigrant.

01:23:33.700 Most people I love are sons of immigrants or immigrants. So I don't hate the immigrants.

01:23:36.900 So what else do you think? You want to deport all the Muslims? Never said that. That would mean

01:23:40.180 deporting people I love. So when I went through all of the things he thinks, we established,

01:23:44.980 I don't believe any of them. Yeah. So you hate me because you think I stand for saying. And at the

01:23:49.860 end of it, I said, I'm going to do Bob. And I shook his hand. He was open border policy. We had

01:23:54.100 totally different views, but he was all right. And he goes, I'm sorry, you shouldn't have been attacked.

01:23:58.340 I said, so Bob, I'm going to delete this. I'm never going to share this video. Yeah. This video

01:24:01.300 ain't going out. I'll shake your hand on it. Well, forget it. I'm going to delete everything.

01:24:04.820 Yeah. But you're making these judgments. The nearest mosque to you is in my town. You don't

01:24:09.940 know what you're talking about. Yeah. You don't know what you're talking about. And then, so then

01:24:14.100 I found out who the kids were that beat me up, the six of them. And I went and found him. He lived

01:24:17.700 in a 1.4 million pound house with his mum and dad. He had a little student. So they didn't really,

01:24:21.620 well, they beat me up because there was six of them, but they couldn't fight. And then when I went to his

01:24:26.260 house, I knocked on the door and his mum's answered. I said, you need to tell your son

01:24:29.700 I'm here. Where is he? She goes, he's at university. So I said, get him on the phone

01:24:32.340 and tell him I'm here. So she's rang him up and he said, mum, ring the police. Quick,

01:24:35.460 ring the police. I said, don't ring the police. Trust me. Don't ring the police. And I figured,

01:24:39.380 don't ring the police. Your son's in trouble. I'm not in trouble. Yeah. So anyway, she rings

01:24:43.380 the police. I then leave. Police run away. The copper rings me. Says, Tommy, boy, we understand

01:24:49.700 you've been to a house today. He goes, now, I'll be honest with you. I went to meet at the police.

01:24:54.900 He goes, I'll be honest with you. We would have thought you were there to threaten. But we spoke to Bob.

01:25:00.020 Whose house you went to previously. And Bob spoke very highly of you. I said, well,

01:25:04.340 how come he spoke to Bob? And they said, because you put the picture of him online. I goes, okay.

01:25:08.500 So I put the picture of him online. So you went to see Bob. But you saw what he said then. So you saw

01:25:12.180 that he incited violence. But you went still to see him as a victim when I'm the victim. So you know

01:25:17.380 I've been attacked by six men. They then prosecute. So this has gone on. And I said, mate, I was just

01:25:23.380 going to see the kid to challenge him, which is what I do with most people on this issue, which is why people say,

01:25:28.900 no, you're threatening us. No, I'm challenging him. The police end up charging these kids. Now, this kid

01:25:33.540 was a university student. He's probably never been in trouble in his life. And I didn't want him getting

01:25:37.540 charged. And I said to the police, I don't want him to get done. I wanted to have a conversation.

01:25:41.140 And through that, one of his friends' boss rang me up. He was friends with my friend. I said, what's going on? I said, I don't

01:25:46.960 want them to lose their careers. Yeah, I don't. Right. They're stupid. They've attacked me. But they need to learn a lesson.

01:25:53.860 And then I didn't turn up at court. So the case got kicked down. But that is a prime example of when I went through this

01:25:59.520 kid, the six kids that attacked me, they're all white. I went through their school group, all their photos, not a single non-white

01:26:05.540 friend. They, if ever there's white privilege, it's them. Yeah. Yet they hate me from Luton when they

01:26:12.100 had no idea what it's like. So they have no idea what it's like living there. And that's the majority

01:26:17.440 of the problem. So even this gentleman who's confronted me at the train station this week, and it hasn't

01:26:20.320 ended well for him, even him, I don't blame him because he's feeding off probably a narrative that

01:26:25.820 you probably swallowed 10 years ago. He's racist. He's extreme. He's a Nazi. All the things the media told

01:26:31.200 you. Now, why did the media tell you that? Because they didn't want to talk about the Green Gangs.

01:26:34.340 They didn't want to talk about Islamic radicalisation. They don't want to deal with these issues because

01:26:37.920 these issues are their policy failures. They've failed. This issue that we're all worried about

01:26:43.600 now, the reason why mums are out on the streets, the reason why there's protests outside the

01:26:46.740 migrants' hotel, is because of their failures. They've imported this problem into the country,

01:26:50.920 and they've tried to scare the hell out of everyone. And when I say the level of, we're talking

01:26:54.480 about these grooming gang inquiries now, when I started the English Defence League, in the first

01:26:58.480 six months, I had free police raids. They fabricated charges. They put me under bail conditions.

01:27:02.640 Bail conditions not to contact the English Defence League. The bail date, Yorkshire police

01:27:06.520 travelled down. They're bearing their mind. Rotherham's in Yorkshire. Yorkshire police

01:27:10.460 travelled down to my mum's and my kid's house, raided them with machine guns. Then gave me bail

01:27:15.820 conditions for a criminal damage on a £30 door. They said I was in a hotel. They said I damaged

01:27:22.080 the £30 damage. And then the bail conditions was not to send an email, not to be in a group

01:27:27.160 of two or more people with the English Defence League. My bail date was the same date I was

01:27:30.660 due to talk about grooming in Yorkshire. And I put in a complaint through the IPCC and said,

01:27:36.160 this is all politically motivated. The reason for this arrest is fabricated. You've done it

01:27:40.240 to stop me talking. It took two years for the results. They just accepted it all. Yeah, we did.

01:27:44.660 But remember, at this time, no one was talking about grooming. No one knew about grooming.

01:27:49.120 The police were still in full-on cover-up mode. If you look at who was in charge of Rotherham

01:27:53.180 Police during the biggest scandal, which is 2006 to 2012, probably, the officer in charge

01:27:58.300 of Rotherham Police is now in charge of counter-terrorism. I face a counter-terrorism trial

01:28:02.440 next month, in October. It's like everyone who had dirty hands. It's why Labour can't allow

01:28:06.680 this inquiry. Because every councillor in Labour, or worker within the council, who was in charge

01:28:12.960 15 years ago, or during the height of this scandal, they've all rose to the top.

01:28:17.640 Tommy, when you look back at some of your behaviour, do you think that it's tarnished

01:28:21.560 your message? I think that my behaviour was impossible. Like, as a young man walking down

01:28:28.320 the street, I'll tell anyone, try and talk about Islam. I think Saira Khan, was it Saira

01:28:32.880 Khan? I was on a chat show with her, and they're all attacking me. And I was trying to talk about

01:28:36.820 grooming. This is 2010. And they're all screaming at me that I'm a racist. And all I kept saying

01:28:40.580 is, what have I said that's racist? There's not one thing I've ever said that's racist.

01:28:45.220 Why are you shutting down this debate? And she said, well, and I said, I've got death threats

01:28:49.400 threatening my family. And she said, well, I haven't got death threats. Do you know why I

01:28:52.360 haven't got death threats? Because I'm a nice person. Yeah. And I said, try and talk about

01:28:56.840 Islam, you'll have death threats. Seven years later, she spoke about Islam. And then she's

01:29:02.260 sitting on loose women crying, saying, I've got death threats. It's like, welcome to the real

01:29:06.100 world, darling. Yeah. What has happened to me through having this opinion, and speaking out

01:29:10.140 the way I do, it's destroyed my life. It's destroyed my wife's life. It's destroyed my mother's

01:29:13.820 life. I live with constant death threats. I've got some of them here, if you want to read,

01:29:16.660 when we talk about a two-tier policing system. I have to wear a bulletproof vest. I've got

01:29:20.160 people wanting to murder me and massacre me. Well, then stop being a racist and a bigger.

01:29:23.120 Racist. Can you explain? Can you, can you, can you, can you, can you, can you please,

01:29:30.500 please explain one thing I've ever said. No, listen, I am a British citizen. Please explain

01:29:33.520 what? I was born in this country, and I do not spout off rubbish like you do. No, what

01:29:37.080 am I saying that's rubbish? I haven't got death threats. Do you know why? It's because

01:29:38.920 I'm a nice person. Please explain. I want harmony in this country. If you talk against

01:29:42.160 Islam, you'll have death threats. In this culture, it's even more taboo, because once

01:29:46.740 you bring shame to your family, that's it. You know, you, the consequences are, you could

01:29:52.760 be killed, you could be ostracised, and literally, you just, you know, the whole family splits

01:29:58.520 up. When I came on here to talk about what happened to me, it was a family member. It took

01:30:03.420 me years to come out and say it, and I just did it spontaneously on Loose Women. The repercussions

01:30:09.080 on my family have been horrendous. Did some of them not believe you? They didn't believe

01:30:14.180 me. They had to go at my mum. You know, it went all the way back to Pakistan and the family

01:30:19.400 there. So, look. Which illustrates perfectly why, as a 13-year-old or whatever, you wouldn't

01:30:24.380 come out and say something. Absolutely you wouldn't. So, when they talk about my behaviour,

01:30:29.200 I don't think, I can, I understand people's questioning of the tactics of the English Defence

01:30:33.860 League or the aggressive street presence of the English Defence League, but without the English

01:30:38.480 Defence League, we still won't have the conversation back then. But it's not just the English Defence

01:30:41.940 League, Tommy. So, for instance, when, I think it was in Leeds Crown Court, where you breached

01:30:48.140 a court order, where you're recording those. Again, I didn't breach a court order. So, let

01:30:52.080 me tell you what happened. Okay, you tell me, and then we'll talk about it. So, I did breach

01:30:56.540 the law in Canterbury Court. So, basically, there was a, I read this story, I got contacted

01:31:01.960 by people in Canterbury who said that Muslims run in a takeaway, a young 14-year-old girl

01:31:07.220 was drunk. She got lost. She went in and asked for directions. They took her upstairs

01:31:10.980 on her mattress and six of them raped her, one by one. All of their DNA was found and

01:31:15.720 they're all out on bail. One of them has skipped and gone to Italy. They changed the name of

01:31:20.280 the shop and reopened the shop. So, I was thinking, well, that can't really have happened.

01:31:24.600 Yeah? So, I've gone down there. I've gone down to Canterbury. I've stood and watched the

01:31:28.380 shop. I've looked at the ownership, looked at the change of name, thinking, that's still

01:31:32.760 the shop. They're still the same people. As I've done that, kids are walking past, going

01:31:37.600 in the shop. So, I went up to people and said, do you know what these men have done in this

01:31:40.940 shop? I was like, what? No. I'm thinking, well, people need to know. So, then I thought, right,

01:31:46.620 I'm going to get the men. I'm going to get a picture of them. So, I went outside Canterbury

01:31:49.640 Court because the men were starting their first day of trial. Yeah? So, I went outside Canterbury

01:31:53.260 Court and they were already in court. Now, I didn't know at this time that you cannot film

01:31:57.540 on court property. So, if you stand on the court steps and film, which is what I'd done,

01:32:01.420 I filmed myself. The judge let the men use a back exit. So, the judge protected the alleged

01:32:06.080 paedophiles. Well, not alleged. They got 25 years in the end. One of them never got one.

01:32:10.240 But, so, at this point, I went home after that video.

01:32:13.500 But you say protect, Tommy. But isn't that part of what the judge should have done for

01:32:17.620 that case? I think what the judge should have done, when there's six DNA matches on six paedophiles

01:32:20.900 who had raped a young English child, they should have been in jail on remand. But they

01:32:24.120 weren't. They were walking the streets. There was still a danger to the community.

01:32:27.080 And someone needed to warn the community. Yeah? So, that's what I went to do. Now,

01:32:31.180 the next morning, at six in the morning, boom, my door goes through and I'm dragged down to

01:32:34.540 Canterbury Court before the same judge. Yeah? Who, bear in mind, again, it's pretty embarrassing

01:32:39.080 for the judge. She's let these out on bail. They shouldn't be out on bail. So, then I'm before

01:32:42.520 the judge and she gives me a three-month suspended sentence. Yeah? Because I breached the law by

01:32:46.920 filming myself on court property. Now, after this, have you heard of Kingsley Napoli? No.

01:32:51.240 One of London's leading law firms. Remember, I'm a citizen journalist. Yeah? So, I haven't

01:32:55.840 studied. I've become a journalist. I've gone from street protest movement and I left the

01:33:00.540 English Defence League in 2014 and I went to prison and I come out of prison and Ezra Levant

01:33:06.360 in Canada offered me a job and said, please make videos for us. And then I started making

01:33:10.820 videos, realised that instead of talking to people on the street, what I need people to

01:33:15.020 see is what I've seen. I need them to understand what I understand now from growing up in Luton,

01:33:19.420 the problems, the dangers. I want to bring the issues that these lot aren't talking about

01:33:24.440 into the average home. So, we'll bypass the mainstream media and we'll have people sitting

01:33:28.820 on their, sitting at home in their lounge watching this. Yeah? So, that's, I realised

01:33:32.240 this is what we need to be doing. So, I've become a citizen journalist and I didn't know

01:33:36.820 the laws. So, I've set, I paid myself to go on a course with Kingsley Napoli where they

01:33:42.440 taught me, you cannot assume guilt. I didn't know all this. Yeah? You can't say he's a

01:33:46.760 people. Yeah? It's an allegation. If someone's charged with, I didn't know this, if someone's

01:33:51.920 charged with an attack. By the way, I'm only laughing because it sounds funny. To be

01:33:55.620 fair, when we started it, we started this on Exaculous and we, we weren't trained journalists

01:33:59.380 either. We had to have people explain like libel laws because we used to joke about, you

01:34:03.660 know, big corporations, they're all stealing money, they're all doing this. You get sued.

01:34:06.820 And then somebody will be like, you're going to get done for this. The Halal Authority,

01:34:09.340 they sue everyone. Yeah. To talk about Halal. Yeah. So, again, I, I went, I'm just giving

01:34:14.300 context to what you're saying. I went through that same process. Right. Of trying to understand.

01:34:17.400 So, I paid this law firm and went down and had training. We had training all the time

01:34:21.340 to understand you can say this, can't say this, don't assume guilt. And you see if there's

01:34:25.260 a report restriction. Right? This is the government, this is on the judiciary website. The judge

01:34:30.360 has no power to put a report and restriction on information that's already in the public

01:34:34.180 domain. So, when the grooming gangs, the police start making arrests and they start charging

01:34:40.000 and bringing court cases against these gangs. 2012, it probably started the cases.

01:34:45.040 There's a case in Oxford. In that case in Oxford, what we heard, because when there's

01:34:49.540 a six-week trial and the media are sitting in court, they're writing everything every

01:34:53.560 day. So, we're getting six weeks worth of news. We're finding out the girls are called

01:34:57.220 gula, dirty gula. So, they're racial crimes against the girls. There's religious comments

01:35:03.040 against the girls. The girl was heated up on her iron rod. She was 12 years old and he

01:35:08.440 had a letter M and he heated it up and he scolded her bum because she was the property of

01:35:12.140 Mohammed. Another girl, they took her tongue and they nailed it to a table. Another girl,

01:35:16.680 they took to the woods and they poured gasoline over her and to scare the hell out of her.

01:35:21.220 She's urinating herself in the woods. These are the... So, we found out a lot of the details

01:35:25.100 here in this one case. What the government did after that, because whilst they have to

01:35:29.720 deal with it, they don't want everyone knowing what's going on. What they then did is they

01:35:33.280 brought in reporting restrictions for every single case. So, now, so with the Leeds case,

01:35:37.040 for example, there's a six to eight-week trial and there's reporting restrictions,

01:35:41.000 which what that means is they banned any of the details being spoken about until the end

01:35:45.440 of the trial. So, instead of getting six weeks worth of news and commentary, you get one day's

01:35:49.700 news at the end. 30 men convicted. You don't get the details. You get one day's news.

01:35:53.780 So, very clever by the government and that's what they've done on all these trials. So,

01:35:56.840 when I went up to Leeds, I stood outside. I said, right. And if you watch the video,

01:36:00.560 what I said is, I've got Muslim lads I grew up with who would want to punch these men's head

01:36:04.800 in, yeah, for the allegations they face. So, again, it's not all Muslims that are doing this.

01:36:09.420 But, there's a problem here and I get the facts of the case that were already in the public domain.

01:36:14.920 Bearing in mind, I'd looked at this gang. I knew what chicken shops they were working in.

01:36:17.800 I knew they were still in contact with kids. I didn't let on any of that. I said,

01:36:21.060 these are the men's names from a BBC website. Here, let me read you their names. I read the 30

01:36:25.440 names or, obviously, 30% of them call Mohammed. All of them are Muslim, bar one. So, I read the names,

01:36:30.900 read the alleged crimes, read the alleged victims. Police then come up to me outside,

01:36:34.580 my court. They arrest me for breach of the peace. And I'll say, what breach of the peace?

01:36:38.840 I'm then put before the judge. Now, he, the judge, Judge Marston, gave me a 13-month prison sentence

01:36:44.720 within two hours. So, I wasn't allowed to speak to my own legal brief. They said no. I wasn't asked

01:36:49.340 if I was guilty or not guilty. I was carted off to prison for 13 months. And then, two hours later,

01:36:54.920 my car's still outside the court. I've gone to work. I'm a journalist. I've gone to work. But before I've

01:36:59.840 done that, I also know the rules of court are, if there's a reporting restriction, it has to be on the door.

01:37:03.860 And it has to be on the screen. So, I went into court. I took a picture of the door. I took a

01:37:07.780 picture of the screen. I kept those pictures. I produced them in court. There was no reporting

01:37:12.020 restriction knowledge. But I believed there was a reporting restriction. So, I still stuck to the

01:37:16.020 guidelines of if there was a reporting restriction. So, I didn't mention anything other than what the

01:37:20.540 judge has no power to limit. So, originally, the allegation was I breached a reporting restriction.

01:37:25.840 Yeah. So, they locked me up for 13 months. Tell the whole country I pled guilty. I'm sitting

01:37:29.240 watching. I'm in jail. I'm transferred from. I'm putting HMP Hull 13 months. When he put me in jail

01:37:35.380 that day, he let all the, we can now call them paedophiles because they're all convicted. He let

01:37:39.280 them go home. One of them packed his suitcase and has never faced justice. He was more worried about

01:37:42.860 me than he was about the paedophile. So, they've all gone to prison. I'm in jail 10 to 11 weeks.

01:37:49.720 I get moved from HMP Hull, which has a 4-5% Muslim population, where I was okay, to HMP

01:37:55.480 Only, which has a 33% Muslim population. Now, this was a damaging sentence for me. It was damaging

01:37:59.940 for my mental health. It changed me as a person. I went into jail with one person and come out

01:38:04.160 another because I spent 11 weeks in solitary confinement with no food, no one to contact

01:38:08.060 because I couldn't eat the food because it's by Muslim. I had five tins of tuna. That got me

01:38:11.220 through a week. Five tins of tuna was all I had. So, I went through all this. During that prison

01:38:16.280 sentence, they played so many games. They come to my cell and said, where's your wife?

01:38:19.860 I said, I don't even get a phone. I get a phone call at lunchtime, yeah? My wife worked

01:38:24.000 in a school. My kids are at school. So, I only got to speak at a weekend. So, I'm sat

01:38:27.300 in this cell all day. What do you mean, where's my wife? Well, there's intelligence. She's

01:38:29.940 going to be attacked with acid. And then they shut the door. And then that would drive

01:38:33.800 you mad, yeah? And they knocked on my wife's door. They knocked on my mum's door, giving

01:38:36.660 them all these intelligence. I'm in there. I get 13 months. And after 11 weeks, it goes

01:38:41.780 to the High Court of London, where we find out, not my words again, the entire process

01:38:46.660 was flawed. Judge Marston had done nothing that he was supposed to have done.

01:38:49.720 I wasn't asked to plead guilty or not guilty. I wasn't given time to prepare anything.

01:38:54.240 So, I'm released from prison. Now, the story they went with was that I breached a reporting

01:38:58.200 restriction. They then had to change that, yeah? Because I'm released from prison. I'm

01:39:03.080 let go. I walk out. And at this point, 660,000 people signed a petition demanding my release.

01:39:09.620 30,000 people marched on Parliament. When I come out of prison, the government were doing

01:39:13.480 government-funded questionnaires on social media about people's views of me. So, they were

01:39:18.940 obviously worried, saying his popularity's grown from this case. There was a free Tommy

01:39:24.160 movement worldwide. Gert Wilders flew into London, spoke at a demonstration. He's now won

01:39:30.080 the election in Holland. A congressman, Gossard, Paul Gossard, flew in from America and spoke

01:39:35.300 at the same event, saying, release him now. This is outrageous. He's a journalist. Americans

01:39:39.480 can't understand the reporting restriction thing, because rather than limit the public

01:39:43.080 in America, they just limit the jury. They put them in hotels. They let the public know

01:39:46.520 everything. You can watch live cases. But this all happens. I'm released from prison.

01:39:50.360 I then find out when I'm released that there's a documentary being made by Panorama to take

01:39:56.760 me down. Yes. Have you watched Panorama? Yeah. What a work of art it was, eh? So, I then

01:40:03.180 find out they're doing a documentary against me. I send someone undercover into them. So,

01:40:08.100 when I send someone undercover into them, at this same point, the government have took this

01:40:13.080 case back to the Old Bailey. Now, when it goes to the Old Bailey, now I've got a chance

01:40:16.740 to defend myself. I produced the pictures that show there was no reporting restriction.

01:40:20.420 I produced the judiciary guidance on their own website, that the judge has no power to

01:40:26.720 report, to limit anything that's already in the public domain. I produce all of this.

01:40:30.060 It goes before the head judge, and he kicks it back to the government and lets me go.

01:40:33.280 There's a video of me coming out of court. We're all singing. It's great. It gets kicked

01:40:37.140 back to the government. The case is gone, yeah? I then produced a documentary called Panorama,

01:40:42.500 where I exposed that Panorama was being used. It basically had the head of Panorama sitting

01:40:48.360 down, telling people what to say in the interview, making agreements and deals with people, making

01:40:53.100 sexual allegations against me. If this documentary would have gone out, it would have finished

01:40:56.500 me. I'd have been finished, yeah? Maybe that's what's happening. Russell Brand, who knows?

01:40:59.760 Maybe it's what's happening with other people. Who knows? I don't trust anything anymore,

01:41:02.340 yeah? But Panorama, I produce a counter-documentary to it, which ends their documentary, and I produce

01:41:08.340 it and release it online. It has 2 million views in 48 hours. From this, I'm deleted off of

01:41:13.840 every social media, and the Attorney General re-prosecutes me for the offence that's gone,

01:41:19.520 yeah? I'm taken back to court. Do you know what they've done? The judge, the judge, the

01:41:23.440 head judge of the Old Bailey who removed it, and you can look this up, the head judge of

01:41:26.880 the Old Bailey who said no and sent it back to the government, they removed him, and they

01:41:30.920 replaced him with the first ever head female judge, Dane Victoria Sharp. I then go before

01:41:35.200 Dane Victoria Sharp, yeah? And this is, I should do a documentary about it to show people

01:41:39.980 what happened. When I'm outside Leeds Crown Court, what I said on my video is I said to

01:41:44.760 the media, to the journalists who have harassed me, even this week harassing me, flying to

01:41:49.040 Tenerife, you're always flying to my holidays. I said, instead of harassing me, why don't

01:41:53.520 you harass these men? They've raped 100 kids. Why aren't you at their businesses? Why aren't

01:41:58.520 you taking pictures of their families instead of target me? I said, so don't harass me, harass

01:42:02.580 them. But it's very clear if you watch the context of the video that I'm talking to

01:42:06.580 the media. Dane Victoria Sharp cuts that video and says that I caused fear, alarm to

01:42:14.460 the Muslim paedophiles as they walked into court. To be fair, Tommy, because I know people

01:42:19.600 in that courtroom, they also said that these were the people who were just involved in

01:42:23.120 the case, but not the Muslim paedophiles. They were scared because there was an element

01:42:28.240 of the crowd that looked pretty menacing.

01:42:31.120 No, on my case, it was just me. My first case, it was just me. So my first case, as they

01:42:36.080 walked into court, I said, all I said to him, very calmly, how do you feel about your verdict?

01:42:40.300 He said, fuck you, I'll rib your mum. Okay, not a surprise for me, hearing that from you,

01:42:45.700 but that's it, yeah? It's like, okay.

01:42:49.260 I mean, that's one way to incriminate yourself.

01:42:50.600 That's what you call a credible threat right there, right?

01:42:53.180 So then, so all I asked was that as a journalist. All I asked was that. So when Dane Victoria

01:42:59.160 Sharp has me in court, what I'd done is, as I walked into court and all the journalists,

01:43:03.180 a whole scrum of them come around me, I just showed her the video. I said, well, what's

01:43:07.560 the difference? Because look what they've just done to me. That's all I've done to them.

01:43:11.440 So if I made them feel unsafe, they've made me feel unsafe, no? But this is where they

01:43:16.420 can show me the man, I'll find the crime.

01:43:18.260 All right, we're getting into the weeds here. Let's talk about what we're actually talking about.

01:43:22.200 Well, they sent me back to jail for that, for causing alarm and distress to the Muslim

01:43:24.940 paedophiles. They gave me another 10 months. So I spent time on solitary.

01:43:27.780 They sent me back into Belmarsh for a crime I've already sent jail for. And they, and

01:43:32.180 deplatformed me. I was deleted off YouTube, deleted off Facebook, made a, made a dangerous

01:43:36.220 person. The reason, and the point of this is all because I exposed the BBC, all because

01:43:41.080 I made a documentary, watch it, panadrama at trfilms.co.uk. All my documentaries are

01:43:46.060 there. I'm not just saying it, my journalism and investigative journalism, I think it's the

01:43:50.540 best in the country.

01:43:51.480 Okay. So go for it. Do you want to?

01:43:53.720 Well, I'm the best.

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01:44:56.400 What I'm really interested in, Tommy, and I think it's really important to have this conversation

01:44:59.900 properly, right, is you talk about the fact that you're a very smart guy, I can tell.

01:45:07.540 Very smart. We've sat across some of the most intelligent people in the world. You're a smart

01:45:11.120 guy, right? But you were not educated. You just had experiences when you were growing up.

01:45:15.240 Is that fair to say, right? That's fair to say. So you know this. You know this. You've seen that.

01:45:19.040 You've seen this happen to your cousin. All of these things are going on. You experience things.

01:45:23.160 But then, and this is where I really want to hear your opinion, right, is you started to actually

01:45:28.880 study. You started to look at Islam. You read the Quran. You tried to understand the scriptural

01:45:34.260 part of all of this, right? And this is really where I think a lot of the conversation is now at,

01:45:39.140 which is about Islam and the West, compatibility. Why is it that things are becoming more tense?

01:45:46.840 Why is it that thing you talk about how when Muslims fight, non-Muslims, even your Muslim

01:45:52.160 friends will join them rather than you, right? So what is it that you've learned and what is it that

01:45:58.880 you believe about Islam? Can you explain that part to people?

01:46:01.780 Yeah. So 2010, it's the Quran. 2010, I'm in jail. I'm doing 22 weeks of solitary confinement

01:46:07.980 at that point. Yeah.

01:46:09.060 For what?

01:46:09.820 For illegally entering America. Stupid move.

01:46:12.420 Yeah.

01:46:12.780 Do you know what it was? I'll tell you the truth. I sort of like lived my life where I think

01:46:18.360 if you worry about consequence, you're never going to bring about change. And I wanted change.

01:46:21.980 Yeah.

01:46:22.120 So I felt at that time in 2000, I went to America 2009 or 10. I was detained at JFK and deported.

01:46:29.700 And I thought, no, I've got an important message to give America. And so I went again on a friend's

01:46:34.020 passport. I got in. Yeah, I got in. And I gave a speech called a warning to America. And what I've

01:46:38.980 always said is I wish someone come to my town 30 years ago and said, listen, this is what's going

01:46:43.280 to happen unless you stop it. So I went to America knowing what I was doing was wrong, knowing it was

01:46:47.960 risky. I thought I'd end up in jail in America, but I didn't. I got detained here when I got back.

01:46:52.420 And I spent 22 weeks in storage confinement. Now, a Muslim outreach.

01:46:55.560 Mate, you know what? You're fucking insane. You know that? Like, from what I've seen of

01:46:59.860 American prison, that is not a place you want to go to voluntarily.

01:47:02.800 No, you know, crazily, crazily, I thought, I thought at the time, remember, we began the

01:47:07.900 English Defence League. I, and I, I'm a deep thinker. Yeah. Yeah. I believe this country's in

01:47:12.620 danger. And I believe my children are in danger. And I believe the enjoyment and freedoms

01:47:17.660 we've all had are going to be eroded and taken. And the kids won't have them.

01:47:21.640 And this is far bigger than me or my kids. This is about a generation of our kids. And

01:47:25.300 I believe that. And I've believed it since my, since growing up.

01:47:28.340 I agree with you.

01:47:28.740 So when this was starting.

01:47:30.160 What do you mean by freedoms, by the way?

01:47:31.780 I mean that the ability to speak, um, cause they just curtail and suppress and it suits

01:47:37.040 the government as well. So they create the problem a lot of the time, which they're doing.

01:47:40.220 And I think maybe I've played my part in that role where they want us all clashing with each

01:47:44.260 other. Cause as we're clashing with each other, we're not looking at them and they want everyone

01:47:48.340 separated into gay, straight, black, white, BLM, this group, that group. You're all warring

01:47:52.840 with each other. And whilst you're warring with each other, they're implementing so many

01:47:56.400 laws that you're not, not even listening about. And all those laws are going to curtail and

01:47:59.600 prohibit your speech and your ability to even have discussions on any of these issues.

01:48:03.340 And the reason being that most of the issues are coming from the government. It's their

01:48:07.180 failure. It's all their problems. I don't blame Muslims for coming here. I don't blame

01:48:10.280 Muslims in the UK for wanting Sharia law because this tells them to all here. So I don't blame

01:48:13.660 them.

01:48:13.840 Well, let's come back to that, right? So, so, so you go to America, you, you, you, because

01:48:18.080 you thought you had an important message.

01:48:19.720 Yep. Uh, you.

01:48:20.980 I spent two days in New York. You know, if you know, you know, if I knew I was going to do

01:48:23.700 22 weeks in solitary confinement, I'd spend a few months touring.

01:48:26.640 Yeah.

01:48:27.300 I spent two days. I've got 22 weeks in solitary. Whilst I'm in there, I get sent a Quran by Muslims.

01:48:31.840 Mm-hmm. And, um, to try and convert me.

01:48:34.480 Mm-hmm.

01:48:34.720 So I take the Quran. I think, right, I've got a lot of time on my hands here. Mm-hmm.

01:48:37.960 Mm-hmm. Let's have a look at this book, all right? Now, I don't know how many people

01:48:41.180 know this, but the Quran is not in chronological order. I didn't know this. So one thing Muhammad

01:48:45.880 says one day is next to something he says 20 years later. So for you to try and, any of

01:48:50.180 us to try and make sense, it's like what the Christians used to do. They wanted everyone

01:48:53.240 illiterate so they could control the population, yeah? Mm-hmm.

01:48:56.480 The Quran is like an encrypted war manual that you can't make sense of, yeah? And it's important

01:49:00.920 that you can make sense of it because abrogation in Islam means whatever Muhammad says later

01:49:04.900 in his life supersedes to what he says earlier. Mm-hmm.

01:49:06.700 So if there's two contradictory verses, if he says love the Jews and then later he says

01:49:10.120 kill the Jews, then which one did he say later? Mm-hmm.

01:49:12.900 This one matters. This prohibits this one. So they give me the Quran. And then I thought,

01:49:16.440 right, let me make a few points here. Let me make, do not be friends with Christians

01:49:21.140 or Jews. And I challenge anyone to do this. Pick up a Quran and go through and make reference

01:49:27.120 to the verses that tell you not to be friends with Christians or Jews. And I started writing

01:49:31.380 these verses and I had pages of them. And I was like, it was like a jigsaw just fell

01:49:35.220 into place. Everything I've seen growing up, the Muslim playground, the Muslim dinner tour,

01:49:40.540 the friends who side with them. Well, they're taught from a little age. Supremacy. They're taught

01:49:45.620 not to be friends with us. They can't be friends with us. 70% of this book talks about us. How

01:49:50.720 they need to treat us. So as I'm reading it, I started making sense of it. And that was

01:49:55.160 my, and I didn't stop after that, if I'm honest. I didn't stop learning. And then I got, when

01:49:59.800 I got out of jail, I thought, right, many people watching this probably just think Jesus is

01:50:03.800 like Muhammad. Muhammad is like Jesus. Two prophets, two alleged prophets. Right. They're

01:50:09.120 nothing like each other. Because I took the biography of Muhammad by Ibn Ishtak. So I like to go

01:50:13.500 to the sources, the most recognized and renowned sources in the Islamic world. So again, not Tommy

01:50:18.620 Robinson's opinion. This is not my story. This is the Islamic scholars of history, the best ones

01:50:24.580 there are, of their life of Muhammad. So I started reading Life of Muhammad. And I read it. I'm always

01:50:29.920 a Jewish tribe, Surrender. And he, and this is why it's important. So people understand how important

01:50:34.800 scripture is. Do you remember the Peshwar school attacks? I don't know. In Pakistan. So the Taliban

01:50:39.540 or Al-Qaeda, one of the two, they attacked a school and there was outrage about it. But what

01:50:44.780 they did when they attacked school is they pulled the pants down of all the kids. And anyone who started

01:50:48.060 puberty was killed and beheaded. And anyone who hadn't was sacrificed as war booty. Well, that's

01:50:54.240 exactly what Muhammad did. This is why the scripture is important. So the Jewish tribes surrender. Now, when

01:50:58.580 they surrender, Muhammad tortures Qanaana. He's the leader of the Jewish tribe, setting fire to

01:51:02.620 his stomach to rob his gold. So profit is this? I'm thinking, what sort of man is this? Jesus says,

01:51:09.140 turn the other cheek. Muhammad's torturing and burning people and robbing them. So he's robbing

01:51:12.840 them. And then after robbing them, he takes that, that night, Sophia. So anyone, any Muslims, and when

01:51:18.520 I have this conversation with Muslims, I don't even know about this. Half of them. I said, he took the

01:51:23.040 man's wife that night and married her. Now, here's the two different worldviews. I see that as raping the

01:51:28.100 man's wife that night. Other Muslims have said, well, no, he saved her from a life of slavery,

01:51:31.900 from all the other men raping her. Because he took her. He was actually really good because

01:51:35.460 he saved her. He's like, what? But anyway, he beheads these people. He does this. And I started

01:51:40.280 going through his life. And he walks past another Muslim at another point. And this is all in

01:51:43.820 scripture. And he says, have you derogued her? He's on about another slave. Said, no, give her air.

01:51:48.500 So then I started understanding. And I started finding verses in here. There's four that say,

01:51:53.940 outside of the four wives, what Muhammad tells you is you can take non-Muslim women as sexual slaves.

01:51:58.580 And you'll blame, one of the verses says you're actually blameless. So I think

01:52:01.880 well, Rotherham, Telford, all these towns and cities, are they taking non-Muslim women as sexual

01:52:06.880 slaves? Now, this is not confusing. Boko Haram's leader, when they took the girls in Nigeria,

01:52:11.940 come out and said, Muhammad has commanded us to do this. Well, he has. Read the scripture.

01:52:15.900 Al-Qaeda, ISIS, what did they do to the Yazidi? This is not made up. There's not 30, 40 different

01:52:22.340 terrorist groups all singing off the same hymn sheet. This is a problem. And again, it's great

01:52:27.720 that the majority of Muslims don't read this and take it literally. That's great.

01:52:32.720 But the problem's coming from this. And I tried to have this conversation with Piers Morgan. We'll get

01:52:36.640 on to him. I tried to. I tried to have this conversation. So what I've done, as I learned

01:52:41.540 and learned more, I then learned about Islam. I learned about Muhammad. I think we need to

01:52:45.760 understand who Muhammad was. If we've got four million British Muslims now who think Muhammad

01:52:49.840 was perfect, and Muhammad married a six-year-old girl and he raped her when she was nine, we're going to

01:52:54.720 have a problem. If Muhammad beheaded and took sexual slaves, we're going to have a problem.

01:52:59.660 If Muhammad taught all this... In the Quran, 7% of Mein Kampf is due hatred. 7%. 11% of that book.

01:53:07.380 Mein Kampf is banned. This isn't banned. This is taught across the whole country. Now, you're

01:53:12.840 not even allowed to have this conversation. And the Labour government...

01:53:14.760 Well, you are. We're having this conversation.

01:53:16.200 We're having it, but Labour government want to bring in Islamophobia laws that would prevent

01:53:19.220 us even having this conversation.

01:53:20.720 Yeah. And you say you're allowed it. We've come a long way.

01:53:25.600 You are now.

01:53:26.220 Yeah.

01:53:26.660 This is fair. Look, this is why I wanted to ask you about this, Tommy, because I don't

01:53:33.100 know exactly what I think about it. I just want to hear your opinion because you've been

01:53:37.080 talking about this for a very long time. And I think you have been... I was going to say

01:53:42.240 demonized. And I think it's probably the correct term. You have been demonized for talking

01:53:45.240 about it. But I also think as the nature of what has been happening in this country is

01:53:50.100 coming out, that I know just speaking to lots of people, that these are people who are not

01:53:56.180 going to be on the streets in a riot. These are people who are sitting in TV studios and

01:53:59.820 they're doing comedy and they're doing journalism and they're doing politics and none of them

01:54:05.580 will ever say anything publicly. But there are a lot of people now who are going, you know

01:54:09.360 what? Tommy's been saying a lot of things that have been proven correct. So that's just

01:54:14.160 where we're at. People can pretend that's not happening. That is what's happening, right?

01:54:19.100 But what I'm trying to understand is what it is that you're saying, because one of the things

01:54:23.040 that I don't understand, genuinely don't understand, is where we go from here, right? What is it

01:54:30.020 that you think we ought to do? Because what you're saying, correct me if any of this is not

01:54:35.020 your view, right? What you're really saying is Islamic doctrine is divisive and hateful

01:54:42.180 towards non-Muslims and it is about domination, right?

01:54:47.180 And it's incompatible with Western freedom and democracy.

01:54:49.240 And it's incompatible with Western freedom and democracy, which is where I think a lot

01:54:53.700 of people's concern with that message is for the simple reason of like, what do we do?

01:54:59.100 That's the point. Is that a fair question?

01:55:01.060 If we accept this, if you accept we're right, what the hell are you going to do?

01:55:05.000 Right.

01:55:05.320 Because you've got four million Muslims here.

01:55:06.540 Yeah.

01:55:06.780 So what are you going to do?

01:55:07.560 And not just got four million Muslims, but you've got Saudi and Qatar own half the capital

01:55:11.420 city. The money is embedded in the nation. Qatar has spent three quarters of a billion

01:55:14.980 pounds. Qatar houses Hamas. Qatar has spent three quarters of a billion pounds radicalising

01:55:19.560 Muslims across Europe. They've messed up the whole of France.

01:55:22.300 To be fair, Tommy, Qatar and Saudi are two very different states.

01:55:25.840 Yeah, they are, because Saudi actually, Saudi under the new king, are actually coming quite

01:55:30.140 progressive and actually trying to deal with some of these...

01:55:32.040 And the UAE.

01:55:32.900 And the UAE.

01:55:33.560 And the UAE, yeah.

01:55:34.460 This is another part of the discussion, which is really, I think, really important. And you

01:55:38.660 keep saying that, and I think it's important to emphasise. I've come back from Uzbekistan

01:55:42.360 a couple of months ago, and I grew up in Uzbekistan.

01:55:45.500 Okay.

01:55:45.820 Soviet Muslim country, right? They don't have a problem with this shit. They don't have grooming

01:55:50.640 gangs. They don't have extremists. The extremists they have all leave because they make

01:55:55.360 life intolerable for them, right? UAE, Saudi Arabia, a lot of Muslim countries are

01:56:00.020 actually much better at dealing with Islamic extremism than we are, right?

01:56:03.520 There's a reason for that as well. There's a reason for that. So UAE, Saudi, they ban

01:56:08.280 all these extremist groups. Muslim Brotherhood, not allowed to operate. We actually give home

01:56:12.640 to these groups because it supported British foreign policy. With the war in Afghanistan,

01:56:17.480 with the Soviet, we wanted a Muzhra Hadeen. We funded the Muzhra Hadeen.

01:56:22.880 The Americans did.

01:56:23.500 The Americans and us, we gave home to their leaders in Europe. We allowed them to grow,

01:56:29.020 foster, and all of a sudden, Boris Johnson, put it on here. This is Boris Johnson. Remember

01:56:34.620 what it says in the Holy Quran, slay the unbelievers wherever you can find them. We will perform

01:56:41.560 jihad against the kafir, the unbelievers. That was in Boris Johnson's book, 72 Virgins.

01:56:45.620 So he knows what Islam is. But then when he comes in power, he totally pretends he doesn't.

01:56:50.580 He fully gets it. And why does he do that? So there's many that understand it. Boris Johnson's

01:56:56.180 one of them. But he's a coward. And he took a different line. So when we say, what are we

01:57:00.980 going to do? And most of these countries come down hard, but we didn't. We give home. The

01:57:05.040 Muslim Brotherhood have got offices in our capital cities. It's like they wouldn't be allowed

01:57:08.380 to operate in the UAE or Saudi Arabia.

01:57:10.000 No. Now, Saudi Arabia understand that you can't give any homage to Hezbollah, Hamas,

01:57:14.960 these terrorist groups. And look at what's happened in Iran. But I think most people in

01:57:18.540 our country need to understand how quickly a country can change. Look what happened to

01:57:23.860 Iran under the Ayatollah. Look at the Islamic Revolution. They went from freedom-loving

01:57:28.340 liberals. Women walking around miniskirts. And I remember there's videos of them laughing

01:57:33.240 in halls when they say, women will have to wear a hijab. Well, now you get killed if you

01:57:37.400 don't. And that happened quickly. So the question always is...

01:57:42.500 What do we do? What do we do? Because as you say, there are lots of Muslims in this

01:57:46.280 country who are great. Like the stereotypical grooming gang perpetrator is like a taxi driver,

01:57:52.780 right? I've said this before. The taxi driver that drives my wife and son around when they

01:57:56.860 need to go somewhere is an Afghan man. I would trust no one more than him to take care of my

01:58:02.440 wife and son because they're really good people. Middle class family, wonderful people,

01:58:06.160 right? So there are millions of Muslims in this country, actually, who are not in any

01:58:10.300 way a threat or a problem, right? Is that fair?

01:58:13.600 That's fair, but there's millions that are. Here's the problem.

01:58:15.540 I don't know. Well, you think there's millions of Muslims?

01:58:17.040 23% want Sharia law in this country. It's well over a million that are a problem. They need to leave.

01:58:21.740 Okay.

01:58:22.400 I would say, how much of this is culture? Like we know, for instance, with the grooming gangs,

01:58:27.640 they come, the vast majority of them come from a very specific region in Pakistan,

01:58:30.880 and Kashmir. So how much of that is a cultural issue and how much of that is Islam? Because we

01:58:37.940 also need to separate that.

01:58:39.320 Well, there's lots of Sikhs in this country who come from Kashmir. They're not raping kids.

01:58:43.020 But there's also Armanis and Saudis in this country are not raping kids either.

01:58:46.500 No, they're not. But if you look at the gangs, and I've done the demographics of the gangs,

01:58:50.660 Somali, Afghani, Iraqi. Yes, the vast majority are Pakistani. You know, the vast majority,

01:58:56.080 Muslims in the UK are Pakistani. That's it. Now, if we look at, it's Moroccans who are doing

01:59:00.740 it in Holland. There was a film called Loverboy created in 2007, and our pathetic country didn't

01:59:05.760 allow it to be played in our schools. They clamped down because it was racist, yeah? Now,

01:59:09.360 that film was an educational film to be played to children, to educate them on the loverboy

01:59:13.240 techniques. Grooming, right? 2007, how many kids could have been saved? But because of racism,

01:59:18.400 and if we just rewind a little bit, just to make one clarification. When I set up the English

01:59:22.280 Fence League, as a street protest movement on the street, what would you want? Because we had

01:59:26.020 a lesbian and gay division. We had a Jewish division. We had a Hindu division. We made

01:59:30.200 it very clear of who we were and what our mission statement was. Do you know that Scotland Yard

01:59:34.640 have a metropolitan domestic extremism unit? And the head of that unit come out and made

01:59:40.760 a statement saying the English Fence League are not far right. So although everyone now

01:59:43.560 believes the English Fence League was a far right movement, that's because the media told

01:59:46.580 you 10,000 times it was far right. So it becomes far right. Same as me. But it wasn't.

01:59:51.080 There were problems with it. It attracted the brave and the strange and the dangerous

01:59:55.240 at times. But fast forward to where we are. What do we do if you accept this problem?

01:59:59.740 And that's this where the government just buried a head. And what do we do? Well, you need

02:00:03.120 to start addressing it. You really need to address it. And what we're seeing now in the

02:00:06.080 swing across the whole of Europe, I've been saying it for years. When the cat's out of

02:00:09.960 the bag, which it is now, the bubbles burst, the dam's broke. The country's awake. Everyone

02:00:15.220 can see it. This ain't going away. So to keep on what Keir Starmer tried to do.

02:00:20.000 So after the riots, after Southport, which again, people talk about, you know, like you

02:00:25.440 said, there was a worry about me because there's an element of violence at times. That's just

02:00:29.020 me defending myself. If you listen to my message, do you know after Lee Rigby's attack? After

02:00:33.340 Lee Rigby beheaded someone, I stood to 10,000 English Fence League supporters in Newcastle.

02:00:38.160 My speech said, there's 600 Muslims serving in the British Armed Forces. They're doing a hell

02:00:42.060 of a lot more for this country than we are. If you abuse a Muslim woman walking down the street,

02:00:45.760 you're a coward. Smash up a mosque, you're a moron. Yeah. So my message has always been

02:00:50.460 this. Yeah. Now that doesn't excuse that there's elements of, there's been problems

02:00:54.340 because there's a level of aggression and anger in this country, which has been simmered

02:00:58.520 and underneath and boiling for decades. And at times it's come up. So how do you do that?

02:01:03.740 You need to harness it and channel it. When the riots went in the Southport, I made it very

02:01:07.840 clear. I made videos. And the reason why I made videos is because I was worried for those

02:01:10.960 young men. Yeah. Because I understand their anger. Because 20 years ago, I put on the balaclava.

02:01:15.760 I run through the streets of Luton. So I get what you're doing, but there's a better way

02:01:19.880 than that. Which is what? Which is, I remember making a video saying, where are the men?

02:01:25.220 Get those kids masks off their faces. Because they're all kids. When I was watching the trouble

02:01:28.580 going on, they're just young kids. They're going to ruin their whole lives. They're going

02:01:30.860 to get put in jail. And they're angry. I believe they are justifiably angry. That's

02:01:35.960 what I believe. That level of anger. If we look at where the protests were, Hull, is it

02:01:40.740 Hull or Hartlepool? Hartlepool or Hull, one of them. A Muslim man in the hotel,

02:01:45.760 left the hotel and stabbed a pensioner to death for Gaza. Don't even know if people

02:01:50.580 know about this. In a terrorist attack. He was in the hotel. There were trouble outside

02:01:55.080 that hotel during the riots. Of course there was. There was trouble outside the hotel in

02:01:58.680 Tamworth during the riots because Mohammed left the hotel and raped an English woman

02:02:01.240 who was walking home. Of course there was. In the last, there's been eight Muslim migrants

02:02:05.220 in hotels who have raped women. There's been 25 sexually assaults against kids from migrants

02:02:10.280 in hotels. This week there's been a 12-year-old gap baked by two Afghanis. There's been the

02:02:15.660 attack in Warwickshire. There's been the sexual assault in Epping. And I challenge anyone

02:02:18.780 to do this.

02:02:19.260 Some of those cases, we have to say for your benefit, Tom, allegedly. I wouldn't like you

02:02:25.120 to go to prison for something you said on here. Just for people who don't understand

02:02:29.460 British libel law, you have to say that until someone's been found guilty.

02:02:32.280 Until they've been proven guilty, yeah.

02:02:33.480 Right. But even, there's been a city, even, you know, Afghan, they put Libyan forces in

02:02:39.580 a military base. They raped two men. They raped two men. Yeah? Now, so all this is going

02:02:45.860 on, right? We know it's going on. Everyone who lives in these towns and cities knows it's

02:02:49.500 going on. The difference is, this used to be confined to Luton. Right.

02:02:52.180 And towns like Luton. Yeah? Not anymore. It's in your village.

02:02:55.420 So, so just, I, there's a lot of the stuff you've just mentioned there that we've talked

02:03:00.560 about ad nauseum on the show. A lot, right? As you know, I'm first generation immigrant

02:03:05.360 myself. I think illegal immigration is completely unacceptable and just shouldn't be happening.

02:03:09.640 There shouldn't be boats coming over the channel. They should be turned around and taken back

02:03:12.960 to France. Like, none of this should be happening. We shouldn't be putting people up in hotels

02:03:16.960 at the taxpayer's expense. We should be, if you want to have asylum, you process them outside

02:03:21.740 of the country.

02:03:22.440 They could stop that like that.

02:03:23.460 Of course they could. And I think it's a bulls problem. It's not, we don't know how

02:03:26.600 to do it. It's a, we don't have the bulls to do it. Right?

02:03:28.720 Yeah. They will have the bulls when, when they see the public opinion.

02:03:32.260 Exactly. But what I'm asking you is, for example, you mentioned 23% of Muslims in this country

02:03:37.760 watch Sharia law and you said they need to go. Right? So what are you saying? If someone

02:03:41.340 believes in Sharia law, we have to deport them.

02:03:44.140 If someone wants to overthrow the democracy of this nation and replace it with a violent ideology,

02:03:49.140 we need to deal with it. And most of these people, say for example, there's 40,000 British

02:03:53.980 Muslims or Muslims on the terrorist watch list. Right.

02:03:56.640 40,000. Yeah.

02:03:57.960 Out of that 40,000, I think 50% of them hold dual nationality. And they've got to go.

02:04:01.380 Why are we following them? Right. Yeah.

02:04:02.900 There's 3,000 of that 40,000 who are monitored 24 hours a day, seven days a week at a cost of

02:04:07.380 £9 billion a year. Now, as the demographic changes, as the demographic changes in this country,

02:04:13.540 we could deal with this, these problems when it was 1% or 2% Muslim population. Yeah. If

02:04:19.580 we get forward to where we're at now, 6%, 7%, and we look at the projected growth forecast

02:04:23.700 of the Islamic community, when we get to 25%, for say, for example, well, that 40,000 is

02:04:28.200 going to double or treble. That's an army. Yeah. That's a problem. How do we afford it?

02:04:32.740 Say Pakistani Muslims make up 3% of the British population. They're responsible for 33% of child

02:04:38.160 defects. Do you know how much that costs?

02:04:40.340 Due to cousin marriage.

02:04:41.260 Due to cousin marriage. 76% of Muslims in Bradford.

02:04:43.540 Pakistani Muslims marry their cousin. How much is that costing? Why are we tolerating

02:04:47.220 this nonsense? Because Mohammed married his cousin. I don't care what Mohammed done 1,400

02:04:50.440 years ago. You're in Britain. Sort it out. We're not paying for it anymore. Yeah. Well,

02:04:54.360 our country's struggling. Our people are struggling. Our own people on the streets. They're homeless.

02:04:58.640 They're hungry. They can't heat their homes. And whilst this is all going on, you're spending

02:05:03.040 how much on hotels of who? Men who are culturally impossible to integrate or assimilate into

02:05:08.300 this country. And that's just, and that's not being, and do you know what's mad here, which

02:05:12.480 I think needs to come out, is Abu Halima. Abu Halima. Sorry, Abu, I'm going to talk about

02:05:17.160 you. Abu Halima was on the documentary called The Jihadi Next Door. He's one of the country's

02:05:22.220 most biggest Jihadi terrorists. After the Salman Abadi attack in Manchester, I started looking

02:05:27.200 at Manchester. And I saw the Muslim population went from 25,000 to 50,000 in 10 years. The

02:05:31.740 next 10 years went from 50,000 to 100,000. What's going to happen 10 years later? Another

02:05:36.220 10 years. Manchester's gone. That's the reality of it. We were walking into a ticking time

02:05:40.340 ball and no one's addressing it. No one's talking about it. Nigel Flarge even said, I'm not

02:05:43.360 bothered about demographic change. You need to be, mate. Yeah. You need to be. Because

02:05:46.900 as these problems progress and they get bigger and bigger and bigger, how do we deal with

02:05:50.320 it? But anyway, Abu Halima. So I'm messaging him. I get a message just from going to jail when

02:05:54.260 I was arrested on terrorism charges, which I've got a court case coming up for.

02:05:57.160 And he messages saying, Tommy, I've been watching what's going on with you. Do you want to know

02:06:01.740 what's happening? I said, who's that? He goes, Abu Halima. Do you remember me? You come

02:06:05.540 to my house. So after the terrorist attack with Salman Abadi, I looked up the country's

02:06:09.440 most feared terrorists or the biggest jihadists. And I thought, right, where are they? So I

02:06:13.320 went to Abu Halima's house in Northampton. He's four doors up from a school. So if he wants

02:06:18.000 to get a knife, bear in mind what they've just done. If he wants to, no one's stopping

02:06:21.960 him. He's next door to the school. Whose kids are in that school? They're ours. Not

02:06:25.640 Amber Rudd at the time. Not Amber Heard. Or Amber Rudd. Who's Home Secretary? Sorry.

02:06:29.580 Definitely not Amber Heard. No. She was Home Secretary. Her kids ain't in that school.

02:06:34.180 Ours are, yeah. So I went to his school. Police come. And so he said, do you remember you

02:06:37.960 come to my house, Tommy? So I replied saying, you're still a little jihadi, are you? And

02:06:43.220 he said, no, I'm not, Tommy. And it surprised me. I said, what do you mean you're not? He said,

02:06:46.860 I'm still a Muslim. I don't believe any of that madness anymore. And I went, OK. He goes,

02:06:51.860 what they're going to do with you now under terrorism legislation is what they've done with

02:06:54.360 all of us. So we've all been silenced. We're not allowed to talk. We're not allowed to do

02:06:57.320 this, blah, blah, blah. So I'm going back and forth with him in this conversation, trying

02:07:00.400 to get a sit down with him like this so the public can hear this conversation. He said,

02:07:03.760 do you know the biggest threat to Britain, Tommy? I said, what? He said, the boat people.

02:07:07.080 This is the country's biggest jihadist. He's telling me the boat people. He said, what's

02:07:10.620 happening to British people's houses? What's happening to the British people born here?

02:07:13.480 So I think so many people from immigrant background and even Islamic background are looking at what's

02:07:18.820 going on going, what the hell is going on? What the hell is going on? Everyone's too scared to talk

02:07:23.500 about it. And the government, Keir Starmer, so when the riots happened, well, as soon as

02:07:27.920 they mentioned English Defence League, bearing in mind I left the English Defence League in

02:07:30.680 2015. It's been redundant since then. There's no English Defence League. I saw Sadiq Khan

02:07:35.200 talking about it this week. It's like, mate, it's been gone a decade. What are you talking

02:07:38.120 about? You're trying to dig up this old ghost, right? And you dig it up for your own political

02:07:42.440 benefit. And the reason being that rather than Keir Starmer and Labour government say people

02:07:47.340 are angry in every town in the city, which is, is it Friday today? No?

02:07:50.200 Thursday. So tomorrow there's, no, there's 14 protests in different cities, yeah? It's,

02:07:55.500 it's coming, okay? Things are, this problem's not going away for the governments. So as this

02:08:00.600 is going on, Keir Starmer, rather than say the public are angry, far right, English Defence

02:08:06.200 League, everyone's a racist, and not just that, what we're going to do is we're going to get

02:08:09.440 the courts and we're going to scare the hell out of you. And they thought it would work.

02:08:12.520 And it didn't work, did it? Because people are coming back. So when people say about me

02:08:16.600 and my element, I have held three huge rallies now called Unite the Kingdom. I learned a

02:08:21.400 lot. Leading the English Defence League, held eight national demonstrations. I learned when

02:08:25.800 there's problems. I'll be honest, there's demonstrations going on this Friday night.

02:08:29.440 I don't think that's a good idea. I wouldn't organise a demonstration on Friday night. You're

02:08:33.280 going to get people drinking. You're going to get people when it turns dark. If you look

02:08:37.160 at all the demonstrations we organise, they're early, they're away from pubs, and we make sure

02:08:41.420 it's over at an early time, to stop these elements. And the reason being, the government

02:08:46.300 want that. They want you wearing a mask. Take off your mask. Don't wear a balaclava. Because

02:08:52.120 what you do by doing that, if you allow it, which we don't allow, if you allow that, you're

02:08:56.800 allowing infiltration. When those riots happened last year at Southport, if you look at the

02:09:00.980 Sunderland riot, where they burnt the police station, there's ten men wearing fully black.

02:09:06.060 That's the gut. I'm telling you, look up special demonstration squad. The government

02:09:10.260 have squads, police squads. We've seen it on January 6th in America, the FBI. They have

02:09:15.820 squads which infiltrate legitimate protests. If we look, and this may sound like a conspiracy

02:09:21.180 theory ten years ago. I watched it with the English Defence League. I know how they operate.

02:09:25.760 I watched what they've done. They provoke trouble. They have the media waiting to take pictures.

02:09:30.380 What did they just do last week in Epping? They bust in, the police brought in protesters

02:09:37.260 to provoke reaction, to then label the innocent families and scared families who want to protect

02:09:42.240 their daughters as far-right thugs. I know what they do. So we made it impossible in our meetings

02:09:47.400 with the police. I come back after being, I was censored. I was deleted. I was invisible

02:09:52.840 for five years. Elon Musk, 2023, gives me back my social media. I come back to the UK. I was

02:10:01.600 exiled, pretty much. I wasn't in a good place. I'd obviously made this film that I recently

02:10:07.140 went to jail for. I was too scared to release it. I didn't want to go to prison. I come

02:10:11.800 back to the UK and we start organising rallies. And our rallies, under this banner, Unite the

02:10:15.820 Kingdom, is about uniting Britain. And it's about uniting. Do you know what's sad, which

02:10:20.180 is a worrying situation, which we should be worried about, is as this progresses, as in

02:10:25.080 terrorism, attacks, rapes, there's a problem coming from a section of immigration into the

02:10:31.020 country. That's my view. And it's Islamic immigration. What's happening now is there's

02:10:36.480 a rise in ethno-nationalism. There's a rise in anti-immigrant sentiment. There's a rise in

02:10:43.920 these groups that are growing. And there's a rise in people who don't understand or are just

02:10:49.760 blaming everyone else. So our movement is saying, no, most migrants come to this country

02:10:55.040 and they love, embrace, my mother, one of them, they love, embrace and celebrate it. We want

02:10:59.800 to bring them people together under one banner. And we want to do it in a joyful manner and

02:11:02.960 a celebration-y manner where we focus on our identity as British people, not a white identity,

02:11:08.660 as British people. Everyone who wants to be part under that banner, come along. And we've

02:11:12.920 held three rallies. And the last one I've done was Trafalgar, July 27th, 100,000 people,

02:11:18.340 not one arrest. In each of these events, and do you know how our relationships change with

02:11:21.700 the police? It's insane, really. Any patriotic rally was met with violence with the police

02:11:27.700 up until 18 months ago, yeah? When I had my first sit-down with the police, and unfortunately,

02:11:33.020 again, I've learned you have to deal with the police and the government in a certain way.

02:11:38.700 When I sat down for my first meeting with the police, I said, I'm going to tell you what

02:11:41.300 we're going to do, yeah? We are... I could, if I wanted to, lads, bearing in mind these

02:11:47.200 Hamas rallies, if I want to, I can organise a protest on Tower Bridge in London on the

02:11:51.880 same day and same time as they do theirs. And we can have a confrontation with the Hamas

02:11:56.420 radicals, yeah? We don't want to, yeah? What we want is a family event in Parliament, outside

02:12:03.820 Parliament, with music, celebration. So let us do what we want. Stay the hell away. We will

02:12:09.260 police ourselves. We will not allow face coverings, not allow us alcohol. We will monitor our

02:12:13.440 own supporters. And if there's a problem with our supporters, tell us, and we'll deal with

02:12:16.540 them, yeah? Because you coming in, mob-handed, with crash helmets and right gear, just don't

02:12:20.760 wear right gear. Stay away. We'll work with you in any way. If Antifa and left-wing extremists

02:12:26.920 are here, we'll change our location and we'll start here. We just want to have a peaceful

02:12:31.740 day. And that worked with the police, and in the end, we're clapping the police. And to

02:12:36.860 any of the people organising demonstrations now at hotels, you have to liaise with the

02:12:39.760 police. Because if you don't liaise with the police, then you'll see conditions coming

02:12:43.500 in, where you can't go down this road, can't go down that road. And when those conditions

02:12:47.400 come in, you'll then get riot police blocking the roads. You'll then have a clash of people.

02:12:53.680 So I've learnt a lot. I know how these demonstrations work. I know how to liaise and negotiate with

02:12:58.860 the police. And even, you know, again, it's a sad state of affairs, but the English Defence

02:13:04.580 League, do you remember, they were opening a mosque in Lutonan down centre. And I went

02:13:09.080 down to the shopping centre, 2013. And I met with the owners of the shopping centre. And

02:13:15.500 just basically said, I'm going to tell you what happens here. I went to the bakery, which

02:13:19.660 was Robbie's family bakery. It's been there 40 years. I went to the Muslim restaurant next

02:13:23.200 door and spoke to the Turks. I said, what do you think about the mosque opening there?

02:13:26.800 And they said, we don't need a mosque here. That's what we don't need. And this is the Muslims.

02:13:30.400 They said, if you put a mosque there, it's going to be 100 men outside our shop. So I went

02:13:34.460 for all this. So I said to the shopping centre, if you open a mosque there, I'm going to shut

02:13:39.860 down the shopping centre. When the English Defence League come and demonstrate, it costs

02:13:43.300 £500,000 to £1 million to police. And you will board up your shopping centre. That's what's

02:13:47.700 going to happen. I'm just letting you know. We don't want to do this. You need to listen

02:13:50.920 to the shops here and what they want. It worked. They cancelled the mosque. By then, they

02:13:55.640 opened up toilets in Burnley, Burnley or one of the northern towns. And the toilets were

02:14:00.360 a hole in the ground in the shopping centre, like a Saudi toilet. I rang the shopping centre,

02:14:05.040 said, you've got two weeks. Changed the toilet. Now, this isn't good, but at the time, I knew

02:14:09.840 what worked. When 364 councils, I wrote a letter to you, you can Google this, and it

02:14:14.360 was Christmas. And six councils changed the name of Christmas. They took the word Christ

02:14:19.500 out of it, and they called it Winter Illuminations Winter Festival. So I sent 364 letters off personally

02:14:24.580 to the councils and said, I'm warning you, as the English Defence League, we're going

02:14:28.160 to hit your city if you change the name of Christmas. And it all went in the news that

02:14:32.960 we were blackmailing the councils. I said, well, I'm just warning them. We don't want

02:14:36.140 to come to your city, but we will. Now, they all listened. The next year, not one single

02:14:40.660 council took the word Christ out of it. And do you know what's upsetting? When I had meetings

02:14:45.560 with Muslims about this with the English Defence League, Muslims don't care if we celebrate

02:14:48.520 Christmas. This is some liberal joke in a council making a decision for community cohesion

02:14:54.220 which doesn't work for communication. You're actually causing resentment. So I learned

02:14:58.980 very quickly that, unfortunately, when you have a bit of power like the Islamic leaders

02:15:03.620 have, you can threaten things, and it gets done what you want.

02:15:07.400 But I think we've now reached a point, Tommy, where things are febrile, to put it mildly.

02:15:13.620 Febrile means it's like it's going to boil over.

02:15:16.600 It's a powder keg.

02:15:17.100 It's a powder keg. It's where we are, unfortunately. You can admit it or you can't.

02:15:22.500 So do you think what we do, and for people who are concerned about this, is that people

02:15:28.500 need to have peaceful demonstrations. There need to be activists. There needs to be people

02:15:33.760 talking about this in a calm and respectful manner.

02:15:36.820 Totally. I think that, again, which is what we're planning on doing September 13th, I

02:15:42.640 think we're going to have half a million to a million people. I think it's going to be

02:15:46.040 the biggest patriot gathering this country's ever seen. And our diversity of our crowd

02:15:50.860 and the demographic of our support base has totally changed. It's mainstream. Whereas

02:15:55.980 they had us as a fringe element. They had us. And they had control of social media. Remember,

02:16:01.620 we were banned from every social media. So when they had control, they could tell everyone

02:16:04.700 who we are. Then now people can see our videos ourselves. They can see what our events are

02:16:08.280 like. They can see what the gatherings are like. I'm worried, and I think the government

02:16:13.060 should be worried, and the country should be worried, about the mood of the nation. Because

02:16:16.660 the mood of the nation is people aren't enough. People aren't going to be silenced anymore.

02:16:19.980 When people, when you take away the freedom of an English man or woman's children to walk

02:16:25.920 the street, which is what's happened in Epping, they can't walk down the street in their

02:16:28.980 school uniform. When you take that away, what do you expect is going to happen? And that's

02:16:33.600 mirrored across every town in the city in the minute. So if you ask the British public

02:16:36.680 how they're feeling on safety, they don't feel safe. And whilst you don't feel safe,

02:16:41.220 what Keir Starmer should have done after Southport is they should have come out as a government

02:16:45.180 and said, we're listening. We understand. We understand the anger. Let's try and work

02:16:50.380 together to stop this. But they didn't do that. They said, you're all racist. Shut up.

02:16:55.280 And what that's led to is where we're at now. Twelve months later, you put a load of people

02:16:59.120 in jail. You let criminals out. You locked up patriots. You murdered Peter Lynch. Lucy

02:17:03.020 Conley still... Some of them were. Some of them were racist and there were riots which

02:17:07.160 were unacceptable. Some of them were, but there were also Muslims

02:17:09.460 rioting along the street. Agreed. And none of that was on the mainstream media. Keir Starmer

02:17:13.100 didn't mention it. Keir Starmer said, we're going to protect you, the Muslim community.

02:17:16.780 It's like, well, no, no, hold on. It's our daughters who have been raped in every town

02:17:19.940 of the city. Why are you going to protect us? It's our daughters in every town of the city

02:17:23.520 who have been gang raped. Not Muslim girls. There's no, there's not one. Find me a case.

02:17:26.960 Anyone. Of a group of non-Muslims raping a Muslim. Find me one case. Because the fact

02:17:32.180 is there's hundreds of thousands across this country. And when you even try and talk about

02:17:35.940 or get angry about it, you just need to shut up. You're all far right or you're all racist.

02:17:39.220 Well, that doesn't wash anymore. That's not going to wash. People have had enough. People

02:17:42.540 are not in the main asylum. But what's happening now is it's organic, which is good. I said I

02:17:48.060 was going to go Eppin the other week, didn't I? Yeah. Wrong move for me. Yeah. Wrong move

02:17:52.180 for the people of Eppin. Because if I went there, it's all about me. And it gives

02:17:56.100 the government and the council and all the opposition the chance to diminish the local

02:18:01.440 community's fears and put them under, which is what they done after the riots. They put

02:18:05.380 them under the bracket of far right, bracket of Tommy Robinson. They blamed me for the

02:18:08.660 riots. They blamed me. I was called for peace, calm and non-violence. And they made out that

02:18:14.120 I was the instigator of riots across the country when I wasn't even here. But I think that most

02:18:19.220 people are sitting where we're sitting, as in something big is happening here. When I say

02:18:23.780 the country's prime for evolution, it is. The mood of this nation, I've just, you know,

02:18:28.180 down the end of the year, there's a petrol station with the Greggs. I had two people come up to me

02:18:33.060 in that Greggs who are talking about September 13th. The level of feeling this country and the

02:18:40.300 emotion and passion and fear that the public are having. When I see people, I remember I've gone

02:18:46.660 through this for 15 years. I've gone from being spat at to being punched to being hugged to being

02:18:50.320 embraced to have my hands shaken. And that process is now where the country's at, where they're going

02:18:56.360 to look, when the public realise the state of our nation, the safety of their children, the absolute

02:19:02.940 destruction of our culture, our identity and our future, when they realise they're going to look

02:19:09.280 at who's to blame. And they're going to look to the politicians and they're going to look to the

02:19:12.780 journalists. They're going to look at who lied and they're going to look at who told the truth.

02:19:16.100 And that's why even, I'm talking about Katie Hopkins. Katie Hopkins had to flee Britain four

02:19:20.760 years ago. Yeah. She was hated. She now comes back. I walk the streets with her. She gets a hero's

02:19:26.260 reception because people see that some people, and it doesn't mean anyone's perfect. Same with me.

02:19:31.420 It means I made mistakes. People accept my flaws. Yeah. But we told the truth. We stood on principle

02:19:37.500 and continued regardless of their threats, their intimidation, their silence. And I don't blame

02:19:42.020 people who are sitting out there who are scared to talk. You should be scared to talk because we

02:19:46.240 don't have free speech. We don't live in, how many people do you hear say we live in a free country?

02:19:49.340 No one anymore. Everyone knows we don't. They're locking you up. I haven't heard that phrase for

02:19:54.440 years. No. No, no. See, I remember when I came to this country, I was a boy, right? That's what I

02:19:59.620 thought. That's what I thought Britain was. That's what I thought the West was. And people would use

02:20:04.440 that phrase. And in fact, I remember kids would tease me for being Russian, right? And I'd be like,

02:20:09.800 shut up. And they'd be like, it's a free country. No one says it anymore. No one.

02:20:14.080 No, not just anyone say it. You see what you just said. I, up until 2009, when I started my

02:20:18.420 activism, I thought I lived in a country with free speech. And then I realized, well, this country

02:20:23.640 doesn't exist. And I'll give you an example. You know, I was just arrested for this GBH section

02:20:28.340 18 to do with the gentleman. When I was arrested, I was detained and questioned and arrested for

02:20:34.480 three tweets. One of the tweets I was arrested for was sharing a Daily Mail article.

02:20:39.240 Yeah. Now, what they said is, they said, are you, they're basically trying to say, have

02:20:43.820 you got qualifications as mainstream journalism? So I said, no. And then, so my solicitor said,

02:20:48.960 well, all he's done is share what the Daily Mail said. And then they said, the Daily Mail

02:20:52.300 are protected because recognized media are protected by this law. You're not. So I was like, well,

02:20:59.400 I've shared something that's factual from the Daily Mail, but you're going to arrest me for

02:21:03.420 it. And they arrested me for that. And also, and also sharing a Palestinian flag that said,

02:21:08.280 fuck Hamas, fuck Palestine, fuck Islam. And I shared it and just said this. I've been arrested

02:21:13.560 for that. We don't live in a free country. Now, I wouldn't mind, but they weren't arresting

02:21:17.360 people who were calling for jihad. This two-tier level of policing, they're not arresting. It's

02:21:22.140 like hate speech laws are not there to prevent hate. They're there to shut us up. And one level

02:21:27.700 has been shut up and the other level get amplified opportunity to promote their hate and intolerance.

02:21:32.360 If we had, if they want to implement real hate speech laws, this would be banned. The

02:21:37.120 Quran will be banned tomorrow because there's a hundred verses in there that call for violence.

02:21:40.060 Lots of books will be banned. You can buy Mein Kampf.

02:21:42.920 But that's banned. Okay. You can buy Mein Kampf.

02:21:44.600 I thought you were going to pull it out there, Tommy.

02:21:46.440 You can buy Mein Kampf, but these free books are banned by Amazon, yeah? This is just my life

02:21:51.360 story. This is a, this is, this is not my opinion. This is the Quran. And what this Quran does,

02:21:56.040 do you know the term Islam is the religion of peace?

02:21:58.160 I have heard that. Yes. But no one had ever said it until George W. Bush. We sat for months

02:22:04.640 trying to find historically figures, military, religious, political, that ever said Islam

02:22:11.960 was the religion of peace. And all you'll find is Islamic leaders saying, no, it's a war manual.

02:22:15.740 It's warrior manual, yeah? So that lie, which was told by George W. Bush, is now just repeated

02:22:21.140 as some sort of fact. But these books were banned by Amazon. As you just said, you can buy Hitler's

02:22:26.100 book. So how can you ban? There's nothing hatred in these. But you're literally burning

02:22:30.420 books now. And you're burning books that challenge your, your failures again. And what is, what

02:22:34.900 is the demographical change to this nation? And what does it look like? So as anyone watching

02:22:39.240 this, okay, five, six percent in the country are from the Islamic background. Look at the

02:22:44.160 mayhem from five, six percent. What do you actually think it's going to be like at 20 percent?

02:22:50.260 This isn't fear mongering. We've got a duty as English men and women to protect this country

02:22:54.400 and to protect our kids. And everyone's seen what's happened since October 7th. It's

02:22:58.440 accelerated. Well, what are we going to do? Because unfortunately, a lot of the groups

02:23:01.540 that were for harmony are actually calling for the obliteration of an entire state of

02:23:05.800 people. And people have seen it now. There's no smokescreens. People can see the hate. And

02:23:11.640 it's not a minority. It's mainstreamed. And unfortunately, that mainstream hate is coming

02:23:16.280 from the left and the liberal left, along with an Islamist alliance, which we've seen this

02:23:21.400 alliance before. We've seen it in Iran. We've seen where the communists and the Marxists

02:23:25.680 joined along with the Islamists to overthrow and topple the country. And the first thing

02:23:30.100 that the Islamists done is kill them. So we've seen it. And I just think that, you know, as

02:23:35.080 a generation of British men, are we really scared to talk about this shit? Are we actually

02:23:40.260 going to remain silent and look at our country and see that there's a thousand years of Christian

02:23:45.360 history in this country, over 1800 years Christianity has been in Britain, but a thousand years

02:23:49.460 of England? We're going to let, in 70 years, spineless, corrupt, globalist politicians import

02:23:56.440 medieval backward cultures into this country and allow them to grow dominant and superior

02:24:01.060 to us? That's what we're seeing. Luton is a blueprint for every town and city. You can

02:24:05.720 ignore it because you think it's Luton, but it's your town tomorrow. And the demographical

02:24:10.000 change and the growth in this nation shows that. So yes, you made the comment earlier about

02:24:14.280 your taxi driver, who's probably a lovely man. I bet a lot of Germans were lovely during

02:24:19.180 the war. I bet loads of them were lovely. It doesn't stop the dangers of Nazism. What

02:24:24.180 we see with Islam, yeah, not Muslims. Again, people don't understand. So if I, if I criticize

02:24:29.780 the Bible or Jesus, it doesn't mean I hate Christians, does it? It doesn't mean I hate

02:24:34.080 every person that follows it. So separate the two. Muslims are people. If you speak hatred

02:24:39.260 against Muslims, it's bad. You entice or encourage violence against Muslims, totally wrong. Your

02:24:45.020 God-given right is to look at this book as an Englishman and say, what is, what does this

02:24:49.160 bring? It's a book. It's my right to look at Mohammed's life and say, having sex with

02:24:53.460 children is pretty wrong though, yeah? You're not really a moral compass that we should be

02:24:57.960 following. In fact, we shouldn't just be following you. Do you know my local politician,

02:25:00.940 Gavin Suka, he was a Labour politician and at the height of the English Defence League,

02:25:05.360 I'd never met him and there was a chicken shop in Luton and he was in there. So I walked in and

02:25:08.940 said, all right, all right, Gavin, yeah? You held a Celebrate Mohammed Day at Parliament.

02:25:14.020 He said, yeah. I said, what do you know about Mohammed? What do you actually know about him?

02:25:18.100 He goes, well, no, Muslims respect him. I said, okay, well, Nazis respect Hitler.

02:25:23.200 I said, celebrate Hitler, shall we? What do you know about him? And he's just looked gobsmacked.

02:25:28.240 You don't know anything, do you? You don't know anything about him. Yet here you are pandering.

02:25:34.220 It's like Jess Phillips basically sitting on her knees in a mosque. It's mental.

02:25:37.800 The level of absurdity, appeasement, cowardice from those politicians. We've got 650 politicians

02:25:45.320 in Parliament and not one of them's ever spoke about Islam. Since Churchill and Gladstone,

02:25:49.880 no one in that House of Parliament, bearing in mind the jihad attacks, think about Manchester,

02:25:54.100 think about 7-7, think about Lee Rigby. We've had all these attacks.

02:25:57.620 But it's worse than that, man. It's worse than that. One of their colleagues was killed by an

02:26:02.600 Islamist, Sir David Ames. Do you remember this?

02:26:04.220 Yeah, but the public probably don't even know who he is.

02:26:06.940 Because all the MPs stood up. Do you remember what they talked about in the House of Commons?

02:26:10.760 Probably Islamophobia.

02:26:11.660 No, they talked about online hate.

02:26:13.720 Online hate.

02:26:14.220 We got a crackdown on online. Their colleague has just been murdered by an Islamist.

02:26:19.140 A Somalian jihadist, wasn't he?

02:26:20.160 Right. Murdered by an Islamist in a surgery, in a constituency surgery,

02:26:25.700 i.e. the thing that they all go and do once a week.

02:26:28.760 And his family is still trying to fight.

02:26:30.400 They're still trying to get dressed.

02:26:31.380 His poor family is still trying to fight.

02:26:33.000 His daughter.

02:26:33.800 His daughter is still trying to fight against a system that, do you know why they can't

02:26:37.500 have that conversation again?

02:26:39.020 I can tell you why, because I've speak to them.

02:26:40.840 Go ahead.

02:26:42.580 They're all terrified. And by the way, like you said, they're not wrong.

02:26:46.740 They're not wrong to be terrified.

02:26:48.240 The problem is they're terrified, but we're not anymore.

02:26:51.520 I don't think the public is terrified anymore.

02:26:53.160 The public are not terrified anymore.

02:26:54.040 Right.

02:26:54.440 It's like, oh, you put us in prison.

02:26:56.920 Yeah, well, that didn't work, did it, mate?

02:26:58.120 You know what I mean?

02:26:59.040 That doesn't work.

02:27:00.440 Okay?

02:27:00.780 That doesn't work.

02:27:01.740 And it doesn't work because once there's a reality that the country is at stake,

02:27:06.160 that the entire Christian nation, that the entire population and culture and identity

02:27:10.380 and children's future is at stake, we don't care about you putting us in jail.

02:27:14.740 Yeah?

02:27:15.060 Because, and I try, these are an argument I had with my ex-wife so many times.

02:27:18.740 Yeah?

02:27:19.000 She's like, just shut up.

02:27:19.840 What about the kids?

02:27:20.880 She said, this ain't about the kids.

02:27:23.420 What about their kids?

02:27:24.580 I mean, it is about the kids.

02:27:25.740 Yeah, it is.

02:27:26.620 But what I mean is, she's like, just shut up to make sure our kids have a stake.

02:27:29.700 I said, okay, but what about when they have kids?

02:27:31.760 Yeah.

02:27:32.160 Yeah?

02:27:32.420 And they're a minority.

02:27:33.540 I know what it's like to be a minority in Islam.

02:27:35.140 I've seen it my whole life.

02:27:36.460 I know what it's like.

02:27:36.980 Go ask the Christians in Afghanistan.

02:27:38.300 Go ask the Christians in Iraq.

02:27:39.520 Go ask them in Syria right now.

02:27:40.940 Go and ask the Druze.

02:27:41.640 Go and ask them.

02:27:42.420 What's happening?

02:27:43.060 You can't because they're fucking dead.

02:27:44.560 And they're all dead or getting killed.

02:27:45.500 And the thing to remember about this is that, you know, we say these names, but these victims

02:27:50.260 are real.

02:27:50.920 Like, I knew, said David Amos.

02:27:52.400 He's a big West Ham fan.

02:27:53.860 I met him a few times at West Ham.

02:27:56.160 He was a lovely man.

02:27:57.160 And nothing changed after his death.

02:27:58.380 Yeah, he was a fantastic MP and he was a wonderful constituency MP.

02:28:03.380 He was murdered.

02:28:04.420 I remember I was in shock.

02:28:05.360 I didn't know him that much.

02:28:06.000 I met him two or three times, but he was a lovely man, had lunch with him.

02:28:09.140 And then I just saw people, just his colleagues.

02:28:12.600 He gets murdered.

02:28:13.220 We've got to stop Tommy Robinson.

02:28:14.880 Well, they talk about online hate.

02:28:16.760 And I'm just going, this is cowardice of the worst sort, of the worst sort.

02:28:21.540 An innocent man dies who is your friend and colleague and you do nothing.

02:28:25.300 That is an abdication of responsibility.

02:28:28.840 I was, I've never actually spoken about this, but it made me feel physically sick.

02:28:33.520 It made me feel physically sick.

02:28:35.280 And it actually changed a lot of my opinions because I saw firsthand the cowardice because

02:28:40.820 it's very different when you've never met, you know, you say names and there's a part

02:28:46.160 of you that finds it.

02:28:47.520 You can empathize, but you can't sympathize because you're not there.

02:28:50.640 But when he was murdered and bear in mind, this was just someone I used to sit with and

02:28:55.580 have the occasional lunch with two or three times.

02:28:57.580 And we used to talk about West Ham and he'd tell me about the glory days of, you know,

02:29:01.100 the 1970s of West Ham and, you know, Billy Bonds and all this.

02:29:04.960 And then I saw like the way they just didn't even talk about him.

02:29:08.820 Do you know that feeling you're feeling?

02:29:10.480 Yeah.

02:29:11.000 In every town and city, that's our daughters.

02:29:14.220 Yeah.

02:29:14.500 So these attacks, these rapes, and I'll explain, there's a Tom Costello.

02:29:18.140 He got the best grades.

02:29:19.200 He went to a private school, got the best grades at Oxford University.

02:29:21.280 And he's a journalist.

02:29:22.240 And he'd done a documentary with me.

02:29:23.720 And he'd come and spend, I said, come and spend time with me in Luton.

02:29:26.340 We're at the local estate and we're at the pub.

02:29:28.340 And when you walk anywhere out here, everyone knows each other.

02:29:30.760 So everyone's hugging, embracing.

02:29:32.140 And when we sat down, he goes, I haven't got this.

02:29:34.220 I've never had this.

02:29:34.900 I said, what?

02:29:35.320 He goes, the community, you all know each other.

02:29:37.380 Everyone loves each other.

02:29:38.500 Everyone's hugging.

02:29:39.260 Because he's gone to private school.

02:29:40.960 Then he's gone to university.

02:29:42.200 And then he's gone to a new town.

02:29:43.500 He doesn't know everyone.

02:29:44.100 I said, so you see what you've just seen there, Tom?

02:29:46.180 He said, yeah, I said, so say when Sarah is raped by migrants,

02:29:51.720 do you understand how all of us are feeling it?

02:29:53.900 Do you get how we're all fucking raging about this?

02:29:57.820 So that sense of feeling when we talk about the moral cowardice,

02:30:00.740 let's look at Piers Morgan, for example.

02:30:02.820 Piers Morgan was in charge of Daily Mirror.

02:30:05.000 Are we going to pretend that he didn't know about grooming gangs?

02:30:07.540 Are we going to pretend the head of Daily Mirror,

02:30:09.560 at the height of the grooming scandal,

02:30:11.040 we know Andrew Norfolk knew because he says he knew.

02:30:12.900 We know the government knew.

02:30:14.540 We know politicians knew.

02:30:15.580 We know the police knew.

02:30:16.660 Let's not...

02:30:17.300 Piers Morgan knew.

02:30:18.440 They all knew.

02:30:19.480 And what did they do?

02:30:20.620 They shut us down.

02:30:21.800 They shut down the debate,

02:30:23.480 trying to be morally virtue for everyone.

02:30:26.060 Like, we're not like this.

02:30:27.320 It's like most people now.

02:30:28.320 I look at the same people who shut me down,

02:30:30.340 now are all trying to be as loud as they can

02:30:33.360 about what happened to the victims.

02:30:34.980 It's like, you knew what was happening.

02:30:37.100 You're trying to rewrite history here.

02:30:39.140 These people are...

02:30:39.800 You're trying to rewrite history.

02:30:41.000 You knew.

02:30:42.060 Certainly, Piers Morgan, the head of a media outlet, knew.

02:30:44.160 I understand how some people in different backgrounds

02:30:45.720 and living in different towns and cities or villages

02:30:47.160 were not aware.

02:30:48.520 But everyone in our towns knew.

02:30:49.980 We all knew.

02:30:51.000 So, that feeling you get there,

02:30:53.500 and I've had...

02:30:54.560 I just...

02:30:55.000 So, people say,

02:30:56.340 I've got to know survivors, families.

02:30:59.820 I look at some of them.

02:31:00.520 I look at Sammy Woodhouse.

02:31:01.640 And I don't...

02:31:02.340 Have you had Sammy on?

02:31:03.120 No, not yet.

02:31:03.620 You should get her on,

02:31:04.500 because I look at her...

02:31:05.060 We've had a number of survivors.

02:31:06.600 Yeah, but I look at her and think,

02:31:08.140 how the hell?

02:31:08.940 She stayed in Rotherham.

02:31:10.900 Have you had Rotherham?

02:31:12.840 The Muslim lad from Oldham?

02:31:14.120 No.

02:31:14.440 Oh, mate, he's like a warrior.

02:31:16.320 Like, against the...

02:31:17.260 He's Pakistani.

02:31:18.000 He's like a warrior,

02:31:19.100 because I know what it's like

02:31:20.320 trying to talk about these issues,

02:31:21.560 and I'm a man, yeah?

02:31:22.660 And as you said,

02:31:23.220 I don't mind a punch-up.

02:31:25.840 I'm a man,

02:31:26.500 but I'm not really up for backing down to them.

02:31:28.760 Yeah?

02:31:28.860 Yeah.

02:31:29.600 But I look at some people like that.

02:31:30.780 Sammy Woodhouse, single parent,

02:31:32.660 taking on the Rotherham gangs,

02:31:34.400 still staying,

02:31:35.020 living in the same area.

02:31:35.640 The threats she must have faced,

02:31:37.040 the threats her family must have faced.

02:31:38.540 I look at Raj Meeha,

02:31:39.460 and he's in the community,

02:31:40.900 and he's exposing all of them.

02:31:42.400 He's exposing all the corruption

02:31:43.380 in Oldham Council

02:31:44.120 from the Labour Party

02:31:44.920 and the grooming gangs,

02:31:45.620 and everything.

02:31:46.280 So I look at these people

02:31:47.160 and think none of them

02:31:47.820 have had any recognition,

02:31:49.720 none of them have had any support.

02:31:52.440 None of them.

02:31:53.700 None of them.

02:31:54.380 Do you know what they've done?

02:31:55.440 So there's a group

02:31:56.280 called Seek Awareness Society.

02:31:57.940 You should have him on,

02:31:58.680 Mohan Singh, yeah?

02:31:59.660 So they're a charity.

02:32:00.520 So when I started

02:32:01.340 the English Defence League,

02:32:02.540 we sort of formed a relationship

02:32:03.840 with the Seek community

02:32:04.580 to try and, I'd say,

02:32:06.380 understand each other.

02:32:07.580 So there was racist attacks

02:32:08.840 against Seek schools

02:32:09.520 down in Essex

02:32:10.140 by young white kids

02:32:11.220 shouting EDL.

02:32:12.380 I'd go down.

02:32:13.080 They'd ring me and say,

02:32:13.820 can you come down?

02:32:14.380 There's problems with the kids.

02:32:15.600 But I'd go down to the estate.

02:32:16.840 There'd be 50 kids there.

02:32:17.880 I'd walk over.

02:32:18.560 They're like,

02:32:18.880 Tommy Robinson.

02:32:19.520 I said,

02:32:19.840 what's going on with the school?

02:32:21.440 And I said,

02:32:21.760 they're all terrorists.

02:32:22.840 I said,

02:32:23.020 no, they're all fucking terrorists.

02:32:24.280 They're the best immigrants

02:32:25.400 this country's ever had,

02:32:26.540 Seeks.

02:32:27.200 They're 88,000.

02:32:28.220 It's education.

02:32:30.360 And then I spent time

02:32:32.600 travelling around

02:32:33.240 to Seek temples

02:32:34.220 and Hindu temples

02:32:34.880 watching their education programme.

02:32:36.920 They do an education

02:32:37.600 so they get all the girls

02:32:38.520 and all the sisters

02:32:39.060 and they hold a seminar

02:32:40.420 and they've been doing this

02:32:41.340 for decades.

02:32:42.740 And the women sit down

02:32:44.120 and they show them

02:32:44.960 how the grooming gangs operate.

02:32:46.920 And I remember

02:32:47.220 I spent a couple of years

02:32:49.300 we were going around

02:32:49.840 and my mate pulled me out after

02:32:51.180 who was filming with us.

02:32:52.320 He said,

02:32:52.540 what do you think of this?

02:32:53.920 I said,

02:32:54.200 this is brilliant

02:32:54.920 for the Seeks.

02:32:56.700 Brilliant for the Hindus.

02:32:57.960 Who's doing this for us?

02:32:59.380 Who's educating

02:33:00.120 the white working class children

02:33:01.560 and women

02:33:02.280 and sisters

02:33:03.020 and mothers

02:33:03.620 on how to stop these gangs?

02:33:05.600 You're not even allowed

02:33:06.100 to have the conversation.

02:33:06.900 Do you know how much criticism

02:33:07.760 Sikh awareness faced?

02:33:09.560 It was only until Rotherham.

02:33:10.500 When Rotherham come out,

02:33:11.280 a lot changed

02:33:11.780 because then they realised

02:33:12.380 we're telling the truth.

02:33:13.000 They realised they're telling the truth.

02:33:14.220 But the Sikh awareness

02:33:15.100 and these groups

02:33:15.720 were seen as hostile

02:33:16.640 because of India's problems.

02:33:19.000 They thought it was just

02:33:19.620 they didn't like

02:33:20.040 the Islamic community.

02:33:21.300 And then

02:33:21.600 when all this grooming

02:33:23.060 came out,

02:33:23.920 the funding

02:33:24.460 went to the Muslim community,

02:33:26.160 to taxi companies,

02:33:27.280 to report it.

02:33:28.000 And it's like

02:33:28.420 you're funding

02:33:29.560 the same problem.

02:33:30.620 They were the problem.

02:33:32.080 So I just think

02:33:32.560 the whole thing

02:33:33.140 and just the emotion

02:33:34.500 you saw,

02:33:34.980 I could see there

02:33:35.360 you're getting upset

02:33:36.180 because it's someone you know.

02:33:37.820 Yeah.

02:33:38.460 I knew.

02:33:39.560 You knew, yeah.

02:33:40.820 We know these girls.

02:33:42.640 Yeah.

02:33:43.200 So that level of emotion,

02:33:46.100 I'd say it's what drives me

02:33:47.420 half the time

02:33:47.900 because I think,

02:33:48.480 I think,

02:33:49.020 no, no.

02:33:50.240 Do you know these girls?

02:33:51.040 I've done a five-part series

02:33:52.260 called The Rape of Britain.

02:33:53.320 We're on to episode six.

02:33:54.420 I'd love to be able to finish it

02:33:55.360 about all these police nonsense.

02:33:56.960 We're on to episode six.

02:33:58.040 That five-part series,

02:33:58.960 if anyone wants to watch it,

02:33:59.800 go to trfilms.co.uk.

02:34:01.460 We investigate the gangs.

02:34:03.080 When we investigate the gangs,

02:34:04.140 I sit down with 12 to 18 survivors

02:34:05.740 and we heard their story.

02:34:07.420 And there's a team behind me,

02:34:08.640 so I get the credit of the documentary,

02:34:10.100 but there's a team of volunteers

02:34:11.120 who we've done

02:34:12.300 a police-style investigation.

02:34:13.760 As we started investigating,

02:34:15.060 I'd sit down with a survivor

02:34:16.160 and I'd interview her

02:34:16.920 for three hours,

02:34:17.560 four hours,

02:34:18.080 five hours,

02:34:18.600 the team would.

02:34:19.460 We'd then put it into a database

02:34:20.680 and we got 254 names.

02:34:23.200 And just so people

02:34:24.880 haven't listened to my stories,

02:34:26.220 you need to watch these films.

02:34:27.560 You need to understand

02:34:28.120 the scale of the problem.

02:34:29.820 Telford has a 1.7% Muslim population.

02:34:32.340 There's none there.

02:34:33.540 That's why we picked that city.

02:34:35.240 The police identified

02:34:35.920 1,000 victims in Telford,

02:34:37.360 yeah,

02:34:37.660 of the Muslim gangs.

02:34:39.100 Five of them are dead,

02:34:40.440 murdered,

02:34:41.060 yeah?

02:34:41.480 Five out of 1,000.

02:34:43.620 We sat down with 12 to 18.

02:34:45.720 Out of those 12 to 18,

02:34:46.620 we identified 254 names of rapists.

02:34:49.040 The police investigation

02:34:49.880 identified 200 rapists,

02:34:52.280 yeah?

02:34:52.540 They prosecuted 11.

02:34:53.580 So when you see the trials going on,

02:34:56.240 they're just like a little symbol.

02:34:57.760 The police going,

02:34:58.260 yeah, we stopped them in Telford,

02:34:59.480 prosecuted 11.

02:35:00.400 What about the other 189 that raped?

02:35:02.300 They're not getting prosecuted.

02:35:03.740 Now, take the demographics

02:35:04.820 of the Muslim community

02:35:05.820 for Telford,

02:35:06.700 get rid of the under-16s

02:35:07.860 and get rid of those 70s.

02:35:08.880 So let's get the men

02:35:09.700 that fit the age bracket

02:35:10.880 that could have been raping.

02:35:12.280 There's only 1,000 men.

02:35:13.900 Out of that 1,000 men,

02:35:14.780 the police identified 200 of them.

02:35:16.460 We identified 250-odd.

02:35:18.520 Then the independent inquiry,

02:35:20.100 which wasn't statutory-powered,

02:35:22.000 which,

02:35:22.260 if it had statutory power,

02:35:23.280 it means that,

02:35:23.760 so when you see this argument

02:35:25.000 going on now with the government,

02:35:26.420 and they're on about

02:35:27.160 doing an inquiry into the rape gangs,

02:35:29.280 and the government

02:35:29.920 won't give statutory power.

02:35:31.260 So if the inquiry

02:35:32.300 has statutory power,

02:35:33.240 it means the police,

02:35:34.340 the council,

02:35:35.140 all of them

02:35:35.680 can be summonsed to court

02:35:37.000 under oath

02:35:37.740 and then asked the questions.

02:35:39.780 Yeah?

02:35:40.500 The government,

02:35:41.560 and this is where

02:35:42.140 the insanity,

02:35:43.520 Sean Davies is the MP,

02:35:44.920 Sean Davies

02:35:45.460 is the MP for Telford.

02:35:47.040 I watched him in Parliament

02:35:47.940 recently

02:35:48.440 talking about

02:35:49.700 the need for this inquiry,

02:35:51.800 statutory power.

02:35:52.960 I've got a letter

02:35:53.680 that he signed.

02:35:55.080 He signed a letter

02:35:56.120 to Amber Rudd.

02:35:57.760 He signed a letter

02:35:58.520 to block the inquiry.

02:36:00.420 And now he's trying to

02:36:01.100 rewrite history in Parliament.

02:36:02.560 I'm thinking,

02:36:02.880 no, you blocked it.

02:36:03.920 I've got 10 of them.

02:36:05.240 We call it the Telford 10.

02:36:06.540 10 of them signed a letter

02:36:07.600 secretly,

02:36:08.900 all Labour,

02:36:09.760 all councillors,

02:36:10.700 to block statutory power.

02:36:12.820 So Telford had an inquiry

02:36:14.200 that identified

02:36:14.820 a thousand victims.

02:36:15.520 It had no power.

02:36:16.500 So the council and the police

02:36:17.420 just ignored it.

02:36:18.280 They didn't give any evidence.

02:36:19.520 They just stood back.

02:36:20.480 So the only way

02:36:21.120 the solicitors got the evidence

02:36:22.320 with their inquiry

02:36:23.000 was to sit the victims down

02:36:24.320 like we'd done.

02:36:25.040 Yeah?

02:36:25.460 These investigations,

02:36:27.080 if there's an investigation now,

02:36:28.700 if there's a historic investigation

02:36:30.100 in towns and cities,

02:36:31.180 I think there's, say,

02:36:31.720 five or six to come forward,

02:36:32.900 it has to have statutory power

02:36:34.340 because no one can be exempt.

02:36:36.760 Politicians need to tell the truth.

02:36:38.640 And if they don't,

02:36:39.660 then they're viable for jail.

02:36:41.380 Yeah?

02:36:41.540 That's where we're going to get

02:36:43.120 to the bottom of it.

02:36:44.080 The reason why Labour

02:36:44.860 won't do that,

02:36:45.980 because Councillor Hussein

02:36:47.260 in Rochdale

02:36:48.040 went to court,

02:36:49.180 Labour councillor,

02:36:49.880 went to court

02:36:50.240 and gave a character reference

02:36:51.120 for the rapist.

02:36:52.300 The ex-mayor of Bolton,

02:36:53.440 Muslim,

02:36:53.820 went to court

02:36:54.200 and gave a character reference

02:36:54.920 for the rapist.

02:36:55.840 Yeah?

02:36:56.220 They gave character references

02:36:57.040 for the rapist.

02:36:57.640 They didn't lose their job in Labour.

02:36:58.960 They didn't lose their position.

02:36:59.900 They accelerated.

02:37:01.060 What did Sarah Champion

02:37:02.820 and Troy speak about it?

02:37:03.960 They got rid of her,

02:37:05.100 she said,

02:37:05.480 about the Pakistani gangs.

02:37:06.640 They ousted her,

02:37:07.840 replaced her with Naz Shah,

02:37:09.240 who was on record sharing tweets

02:37:10.680 saying that the children

02:37:11.940 and the victims

02:37:12.420 need to shut their mouths

02:37:13.280 for the sake of diversity.

02:37:14.580 There has been a cover-up.

02:37:15.640 Oldham,

02:37:16.500 one of the men in charge

02:37:17.520 of Labour Council

02:37:18.080 for protecting kids,

02:37:21.100 is in jail

02:37:21.780 as one of the gang rapists.

02:37:24.860 Councillor Jagler,

02:37:25.640 this is the Rotherham case,

02:37:27.380 Labour,

02:37:27.860 he was the councillor,

02:37:28.760 he was working with the gangs,

02:37:30.280 all proven.

02:37:31.360 Labour are in the middle,

02:37:32.720 these are,

02:37:33.800 we've got somewhere,

02:37:34.880 they used to call them

02:37:35.380 Asian gangs,

02:37:36.080 Asian rape gangs,

02:37:36.760 we got finally

02:37:37.680 to Muslim rape gangs,

02:37:39.200 they're trying to call them

02:37:39.840 Pakistani,

02:37:40.380 they're not,

02:37:40.700 they're Muslim.

02:37:41.640 We need to get to

02:37:42.680 Labour's Muslim gangs

02:37:45.240 because that's what they were.

02:37:47.620 Tommy,

02:37:48.160 final question

02:37:48.860 is always the same.

02:37:50.260 What's the one thing

02:37:51.000 we're not talking about

02:37:51.920 as a society

02:37:52.560 that we really should be?

02:37:54.140 Before Tommy answers

02:37:54.960 the final question

02:37:55.760 at the end of the interview

02:37:56.780 make sure you click the link

02:37:58.020 in the description

02:37:58.720 where you'll see this.

02:38:00.380 Through your journey

02:38:01.040 what has been the most

02:38:01.900 bitter pill to swallow?

02:38:03.980 What role do you think

02:38:04.760 your social class

02:38:05.680 and the way you express yourself

02:38:06.880 plays in how elites

02:38:07.900 and the political class

02:38:08.900 have responded to you?

02:38:10.420 Can you share any stories

02:38:11.320 of growing up in Luton

02:38:12.200 around Stacey Dooley

02:38:13.260 and Andrew Tate?

02:38:14.760 Yes.

02:38:16.380 What's the one thing

02:38:17.180 we're not talking about

02:38:18.100 as a society

02:38:18.760 that we really should be?

02:38:20.700 Demographics.

02:38:21.060 By 2041

02:38:23.420 white British

02:38:24.760 are a minority in Britain.

02:38:26.260 That's not acceptable.

02:38:27.700 It's just not acceptable.

02:38:28.900 Same way it wouldn't be acceptable

02:38:29.900 if black Nigerians

02:38:31.360 become a minority

02:38:32.080 in Nigeria.

02:38:33.240 It's not acceptable.

02:38:34.180 It's something we need to look at

02:38:35.040 and we need to talk about

02:38:35.800 massively

02:38:36.280 because no one wants to talk about it

02:38:37.880 and we always hear

02:38:38.820 it's a minority

02:38:39.380 it's a minority

02:38:39.920 it's a minority

02:38:40.380 no it's not.

02:38:41.460 Not anymore.

02:38:42.280 And when it becomes a majority

02:38:43.360 in towns and cities

02:38:44.780 the minority rights

02:38:45.920 that protected them

02:38:46.600 are not protecting our English kids.

02:38:48.220 So it's not good.

02:38:49.740 So I think that the

02:38:50.940 demographical change

02:38:51.900 in towns and cities

02:38:52.800 and the projected

02:38:53.880 growth forecast

02:38:54.900 birth rate

02:38:55.580 accelerate

02:38:56.100 I see even Nigel Farge

02:38:57.620 now saying he's going to

02:38:58.280 get rid of the two cap

02:38:59.440 for benefits.

02:39:00.200 No you need to keep

02:39:00.800 the two cap for benefits.

02:39:02.140 My local imam's got 14 kids

02:39:03.400 with three wives.

02:39:04.300 I don't want to pay for that.

02:39:05.840 And the Islamic community

02:39:07.020 if you look at the birth rate

02:39:07.980 and the demographical change

02:39:08.760 compared to the non

02:39:09.360 the black community

02:39:10.520 the Hindu community

02:39:11.440 the Sikh community

02:39:12.160 there's no explosion

02:39:13.180 in demographical change.

02:39:14.640 The explosion

02:39:15.100 in demographical change

02:39:16.260 in this country

02:39:16.760 is Islamic birth rate

02:39:18.520 and Islamic immigration.

02:39:20.220 We either stop it now

02:39:21.920 or we're going to be

02:39:23.000 in a situation

02:39:23.500 where we can't.

02:39:24.880 So that now

02:39:26.240 we've run out of time.

02:39:27.540 We've run out of time.

02:39:28.660 I think we need

02:39:29.220 direct democracy

02:39:30.040 but by 2041

02:39:32.480 we lose on direct democracy.

02:39:35.560 Tommy

02:39:35.920 I'm not necessarily

02:39:37.860 in disagreement

02:39:38.540 with you

02:39:39.100 broadly speaking

02:39:40.340 but

02:39:40.680 to a lot of people

02:39:41.800 it will sound like

02:39:42.420 there's quite a bit

02:39:43.060 of inconsistency

02:39:43.880 with what you're saying

02:39:44.560 on the one hand

02:39:45.160 you're saying

02:39:45.660 you know

02:39:46.320 black, white, Sikh, all great

02:39:48.380 but then you're saying

02:39:49.540 I'm saying that England

02:39:50.400 is historically

02:39:52.720 a white nation.

02:39:53.580 It is.

02:39:54.120 They cannot become

02:39:54.860 a minority

02:39:55.300 in the white nation.

02:39:56.380 It just is

02:39:56.720 and unless you talk

02:39:57.680 about this

02:39:58.220 you leave it

02:39:59.120 to the FNATs

02:39:59.620 and the Nazis.

02:40:00.960 Unless you address

02:40:01.880 because the majority

02:40:02.540 of the public

02:40:03.100 are worried

02:40:03.520 by demographic change.

02:40:04.920 The majority.

02:40:05.820 It's not racist.

02:40:06.560 It's not racist

02:40:07.260 to say that England

02:40:07.820 has to remain

02:40:08.400 a majority white country.

02:40:09.540 That's not racist.

02:40:10.780 And exactly the same

02:40:11.840 like Japan

02:40:12.840 should remain

02:40:13.880 a majority Japanese nation.

02:40:15.740 If it was changing

02:40:16.700 how come it's only

02:40:17.840 Western nations

02:40:19.220 that have to accept

02:40:19.860 this sort of diversity?

02:40:21.160 Nowhere else has to.

02:40:22.220 So unless you actually

02:40:23.400 have this conversation

02:40:24.140 and actually address

02:40:25.120 the general public fears

02:40:26.120 you leave the only people

02:40:27.760 talking about this

02:40:28.640 as ethno-nationalists.

02:40:30.640 And ethno-nationalists

02:40:31.420 are growing in number

02:40:32.040 growing in confidence

02:40:33.260 and if they're the only people

02:40:35.220 addressing this

02:40:35.980 this specific topic

02:40:37.060 of the conversation

02:40:37.720 then you leave people

02:40:39.660 to join them

02:40:40.640 listen to them

02:40:41.420 and be radicalised by them.

02:40:42.680 But what I don't understand

02:40:44.140 is what's the difference

02:40:44.960 between their position

02:40:46.040 and your position

02:40:46.700 on this issue?

02:40:47.360 You're kind of basically

02:40:48.040 saying the same thing

02:40:48.780 aren't you?

02:40:49.440 No.

02:40:49.940 They're saying that

02:40:50.620 non-whites need to be

02:40:51.720 expelled from this country.

02:40:53.080 All of them.

02:40:53.880 I'm saying that we need

02:40:54.580 to address the Islamic demographic.

02:40:56.120 I believe we need

02:40:56.780 remigration of many

02:40:58.040 of the so-called

02:40:58.660 fake asylum seekers

02:40:59.540 because they're not

02:41:00.000 asylum seekers.

02:41:00.680 They've gone through

02:41:01.000 16 safe countries

02:41:01.920 and they've come to this country.

02:41:03.400 All the foreign nationals

02:41:04.700 in prison

02:41:05.040 12,000 of them

02:41:05.780 got to go.

02:41:07.060 Anyone on the

02:41:08.140 jihadi watch list

02:41:08.760 got to go.

02:41:09.700 There's so many issues

02:41:10.920 we should be doing

02:41:11.600 I'd stop the Qatari money

02:41:13.040 I'd stop the Iranian money

02:41:14.820 I'd stop it all.

02:41:16.400 I'd stop the

02:41:16.860 and essentially

02:41:18.100 so

02:41:18.500 Biggleswade again

02:41:19.860 little example

02:41:20.460 Biggleswade

02:41:21.020 is a town near Luton

02:41:22.200 there's Muslims there

02:41:23.420 there's no mosque

02:41:24.340 they're pretty well integrated

02:41:25.480 pretty well integrated

02:41:26.720 no extremism.

02:41:27.660 Yeah.

02:41:28.140 There's no Saudi funded

02:41:29.280 or Qatari funded

02:41:30.040 or Wahhabi funded

02:41:30.800 or Salafi funded mosque

02:41:32.120 which is promoting

02:41:32.920 this insanity

02:41:33.580 to all of them

02:41:34.460 from a young age.

02:41:35.440 So I would love

02:41:36.080 I want freedom of speech

02:41:37.420 for us

02:41:37.720 I want freedom for everyone

02:41:38.480 and want freedom

02:41:38.940 for Muslims

02:41:39.400 they need to leave Islam.

02:41:42.300 Tommy

02:41:42.660 thank you very much.

02:41:44.300 Thank you guys.

02:41:45.080 Make sure to head over

02:41:45.840 to Substack

02:41:46.400 where we'll carry on

02:41:47.100 the conversation

02:41:47.680 with your questions.

02:41:48.540 We do have

02:41:49.160 we had more questions

02:41:50.840 for you than any guest

02:41:52.180 in the history of the show

02:41:53.120 so there'll be a lot

02:41:55.120 of content

02:41:55.780 behind that

02:41:56.320 behind that paywall

02:41:57.780 so go on over there

02:41:58.640 subscribe

02:41:59.120 join our Substack

02:42:00.160 support the show

02:42:00.820 and you get to hear

02:42:01.700 a good chunk of time

02:42:03.160 with Tommy behind the paywall.

02:42:04.380 See you there.

02:42:04.680 What's one thing

02:42:07.440 you wish your critics

02:42:08.260 understood about

02:42:09.140 your motivations

02:42:09.900 and is there anything

02:42:10.740 you wish you could have

02:42:11.500 done differently

02:42:12.000 to limit the alienation

02:42:13.520 that you have

02:42:14.060 on some people?

TRIGGERnometry - August 10, 2025

An Honest Conversation With Tommy Robinson

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