TRIGGERnometry - An Immigrant's Love Letter to the West

00:00:00.000 So yeah, so I remember when you said to me that you wanted to write a book

00:00:03.740 and we were talking about it and you said that the title was going to be

00:00:09.000 An Immigrant's Love Letter to the West and that really struck me.

00:00:13.260 Why did you call it that?

00:00:15.200 Well, first of all, in some ways the title is a bit of a compromise

00:00:18.300 because I don't know if you saw the Sunday Time Review, which was broadly positive.

00:00:22.660 Yes, it was.

00:00:23.220 One of the criticisms he made was, well, what is the West?

00:00:26.260 And actually, if it were up to me, and it wasn't just about marketing as well,

00:00:30.820 I would have called it An Immigrant's Love Letter to the Anglosphere

00:00:33.680 because that's really the countries that I'm talking about.

00:00:37.940 I'm not talking about France.

00:00:39.260 Yeah.

00:00:39.860 Right?

00:00:40.200 Not least because the French have a very different conception of freedom

00:00:44.120 and where it comes from and, you know, partly the consequence of the French Revolution

00:00:49.540 is they obsess about reason and rationality,

00:00:52.200 whereas in the Anglosphere there's also an appreciation of tradition

00:00:56.180 as a source of wisdom and a source of knowledge.

00:00:59.700 So it should be called, first of all, An Immigrant's Love Letter to the Anglosphere.

00:01:03.800 And actually one of the things that, one of the reasons I wanted to call it that

00:01:07.980 was that it harkens back to Yuri Bezmenov,

00:01:10.720 who I showed you some videos of, if you remember.

00:01:13.200 Yes.

00:01:13.960 Which were very powerful.

00:01:15.140 He was a KGB defector which talked about the way the Soviet Union was demoralizing

00:01:19.000 and dividing Western societies, particularly the American society.

00:01:24.180 And he wrote a book called A Love Letter to America.

00:01:27.460 So I wanted to reference that with the book.

00:01:30.960 And my book is very much making the point that he was making in his own time,

00:01:36.260 which is you can mess around with all of the crap that you and I spend every week

00:01:43.120 discussing on trigonometry, all of this division and all this cultural bollocks

00:01:46.600 and all of this sort of navel-gazing and obsessing about internal stuff

00:01:52.260 that doesn't really matter.

00:01:53.620 You can do it as long as you don't have enemies,

00:01:56.700 as long as you don't have people who are coming,

00:01:59.260 as long as you don't have people who are willing to challenge that.

00:02:02.040 And I've been saying to you, and to be fair to you,

00:02:04.980 you coming from outside the West somewhat and being visiting countries outside the West yourself,

00:02:11.740 you know this, the rest of the world isn't like the West.

00:02:15.820 No.

00:02:16.900 To put it mildly, right?

00:02:18.400 No.

00:02:18.960 And the things that we want isn't necessarily what people outside the West want

00:02:23.980 and the methods of behaviour that we have here are not necessarily the methods of behaviour

00:02:28.260 that people have elsewhere.

00:02:29.640 So if we continue to obsess about things that don't matter,

00:02:33.700 I mean, it strikes me as interesting that the last time you and I were sitting down like this

00:02:37.480 and talking was the day after Russia invaded Ukraine.

00:02:42.040 Well, these events are not disconnected.

00:02:44.320 I mean, I said to someone, I think it was Chris Williamson interviewed me for his YouTube show.

00:02:49.220 Don't plug rivals.

00:02:50.020 And I was sort of saying, you know, that Russia's invasion of Ukraine wouldn't have happened

00:02:57.060 or certainly wouldn't have happened the way that it happened or when it happened

00:02:59.640 if it hadn't been for the culture war.

00:03:02.080 And that sounds like a bold claim and people go, you're a culture warrior, blah, blah, blah.

00:03:06.720 Well, if you think about it, Donald Trump failed to get re-elected

00:03:10.520 because of the culture war in some way, right?

00:03:13.500 You could, there's no question about that.

00:03:15.080 Now, if Trump doesn't get re-elected, we've had Putin's former advisor, Andrea Lerionov,

00:03:20.800 on the show saying, by the moment Biden got elected, this process started, right?

00:03:25.380 Now, this isn't a partisan point about Biden or Trump or whatever.

00:03:28.900 My point is, what we do internally in the West affects how we are seen elsewhere

00:03:34.840 and it affects the consequences which we then suffer,

00:03:40.620 which we are essentially inflicting on ourselves.

00:03:43.300 So my point is, we've got to lay all this nonsense to bed

00:03:47.260 and actually start to focus on very real problems.

00:03:50.260 I'm not just talking about the threat of Russia, the struggle with China.

00:03:55.240 I mean, look at what economics is going to come back to the fore.

00:03:58.440 You and I have both talked about this,

00:03:59.600 which is one of the reasons we're going to be getting more and more economists back on the show.

00:04:04.640 Interestingly, that's how trigonometry started, of course.

00:04:07.900 And that's because there's big problems

00:04:10.340 and people aren't awake to what's going to happen.

00:04:14.040 The rise in fuel prices, the rising food prices,

00:04:18.180 what we talk about is inflation.

00:04:19.720 No one really gets what it's going to be like by the end of this year.

00:04:24.000 I think people are starting to get it now.

00:04:26.040 I remember when Nigel Farage was actually sitting in that very scene

00:04:30.520 and he actually said very similar words to use,

00:04:34.300 which was, I don't think people understand what's going to happen

00:04:37.160 when those bills hit their mats in, I think it was in April or May or whenever it was.

00:04:41.980 And he was talking about energy prices.

00:04:43.420 He was indeed.

00:04:44.220 But add to that fuel prices.

00:04:45.880 And now you've got a global food crisis going on.

00:04:49.160 Food prices are going to go through the roof.

00:04:50.900 You and I just interviewed only an hour ago Peter Zeyhan,

00:04:53.400 who talked about all of this.

00:04:54.540 So the economic future is going to be very challenging for a lot of people.

00:04:59.040 We can't afford to be banging on about gender-fluid lesbians being oppressed or whatever.

00:05:03.740 Do you know what I mean?

00:05:05.320 And that's kind of why I wanted to write the book.

00:05:07.540 I wanted to remind people that what we have is great,

00:05:10.280 what we have is valuable.

00:05:11.640 We shouldn't throw it out just because some race activists want to complain about,

00:05:16.080 you know, air conditioning and whatever it is that they're banging on about.

00:05:20.480 We've got to lay those issues to rest

00:05:22.240 and we've got to move on and talk about the serious stuff

00:05:24.420 that actually makes a difference to everyone's life.

00:05:26.280 But don't you think the fact that we're obsessing over these trivial mundane issues,

00:05:30.680 like we went to visit your family in Armenia

00:05:32.900 and I remember sitting down with them

00:05:34.920 and they went, well, what are people talking about in the West?

00:05:37.800 And I said, well, one of the big issues actually is what is a woman?

00:05:43.080 Yeah.

00:05:43.300 And she just looked at me like I had lost my nut.

00:05:46.400 What?

00:05:47.900 I was loving you explaining it because my whole family were just sitting there going,

00:05:52.240 what?

00:05:53.280 No.

00:05:53.900 It is not possible.

00:05:55.680 What?

00:05:56.360 It is not possible.

00:05:57.920 What?

00:05:58.560 It is not.

00:05:59.280 And they were all women as well.

00:06:01.700 Right.

00:06:02.300 Right.

00:06:02.560 But the point is, like, none of the shit is worth talking about.

00:06:06.380 None of it makes sense.

00:06:07.360 But we've got to a position where we're having to address GCC biology

00:06:11.240 before we can actually talk about the stuff that really matters.

00:06:14.220 And that's a problem, Francis.

00:06:15.420 If the prime minister of this country is being asked what a woman is

00:06:18.560 instead of what his policy is or her policy is on, you know,

00:06:22.580 dealing with the cost of living crisis or the housing crisis,

00:06:25.420 all of these other real problems,

00:06:28.020 they're naturally going to spend their time talking about that

00:06:31.240 and less time thinking and worrying and fixing the problems that we've actually got.

00:06:35.380 I mean, look at the leadership race now.

00:06:36.740 You know, you and I, for example, both quite like Kemi Badenoch

00:06:39.860 because she's good on cultural issues, right?

00:06:42.720 But I don't want the next prime minister of this country to be good,

00:06:45.940 to be able to define a woman.

00:06:47.680 I've got higher ambitions.

00:06:51.260 No, I completely agree.

00:06:53.540 But doesn't it show that there's something quite rotten

00:06:56.960 at the core of our society?

00:06:58.620 And the one thing that maybe is perhaps the truth about this is

00:07:03.880 the reason we've been able to focus so much on these trivialities is

00:07:07.720 our lives have been great.

00:07:10.140 Now, it is my fear and suspicion

00:07:12.740 that that may not be the way that it has been in the next 10 years.

00:07:19.760 I think we're all going to get a lot poorer.

00:07:23.160 Our lives are going to get more difficult.

00:07:25.020 I think the stability and prosperity we've enjoyed is genuinely under threat.

00:07:30.260 We've seen, you know, some of the interviews we've already recorded

00:07:32.940 but haven't yet put out.

00:07:34.620 You know, the end of globalization, it has some benefits, of course,

00:07:37.980 but in the short term, it's going to be very painful for a lot of people.

00:07:40.540 And perhaps that will be one of the things that does away with the culture war somewhat

00:07:46.820 is it forces people to focus on things that matter.

00:07:50.440 And what are the things that matter?

00:07:52.400 Well, I think at the moment it's very clear what matters.

00:07:55.140 One is international security.

00:07:56.800 That's been thrown completely in the air by what Russia is doing in Ukraine

00:08:01.540 and some of the other moves that are happening.

00:08:03.980 We don't know exactly what they'll look like.

00:08:05.980 And the other thing, of course, is economics.

00:08:07.800 I mean, people are going to starve around the world from the famine that's coming.

00:08:13.180 We're fortunate in the West to probably be spared that,

00:08:16.200 but you're seeing various things that are happening around that,

00:08:21.140 whether it's in Holland, whether it's in Sri Lanka, wherever you want.

00:08:24.980 And the other thing, of course, is the cost of living is going to go up massively.

00:08:29.560 And when that happens, you know, we think about it as like,

00:08:33.440 oh, well, we can't afford as many avocados or whatever or as many meals out.

00:08:37.800 For a lot of people, it's the choice between heating and eating or whatever it is.

00:08:42.920 And that's a genuine fact.

00:08:44.560 You know, there are a lot of people, pensioners, for example, in this country.

00:08:47.540 Now, I know they all voted Brexit, so they deserve to die, according to some people.

00:08:50.860 But in reality, I mean, they're some of the most vulnerable people in society.

00:08:54.500 Of course.

00:08:54.700 Not least because they're not able to control their income.

00:08:57.700 They can't go and get a second job or a third job or whatever to supplement their income.

00:09:02.060 They're going to be in a lot of trouble.

00:09:03.640 And how we deal with that is much more important to me than, you know,

00:09:07.520 Dr. Shola on Good Morning Britain banging on about how someone's offended her.

00:09:11.400 You know what I mean?

00:09:11.820 No, look, I completely agree with you.

00:09:14.360 And the really interesting thing about your book is that it's doing very...

00:09:19.380 It hasn't even been released yet.

00:09:20.760 And it's doing very well on pre-sales.

00:09:23.900 Like, the reviews have been great.

00:09:26.160 It's already been...

00:09:27.400 It's already going for a reprint.

00:09:29.080 It's already had a reprint.

00:09:29.860 It's already had a reprint.

00:09:31.060 So, why is that?

00:09:32.400 Well, before I answer that, I should say just how incredibly grateful I am to...

00:09:37.720 And this is mostly our fans.

00:09:39.460 To me.

00:09:39.940 Yeah, I'm very grateful to you, mate.

00:09:42.280 But I am so grateful that, you know, people have the trust that I'm going to put out

00:09:47.240 that there's something worth reading.

00:09:48.580 My first book, no reason people should think that I'd be some great author.

00:09:52.080 But I feel like I've written a book that's worth reading.

00:09:54.460 Particularly given some of the historical context that I give that people may be unfamiliar with

00:09:58.920 about my own family, the history of the Soviet Union.

00:10:01.600 I think even from just...

00:10:02.860 If you're interested in history, it's hopefully a good book to read.

00:10:07.100 But to answer your question, you know, like you say, thousands of copies sold before it's

00:10:11.600 even released, just in the UK alone and more in America and elsewhere.

00:10:17.320 I think people realize that we've got a problem, man.

00:10:20.040 I think people realize that this lack of confidence in ourselves, this lack of gratitude for what

00:10:25.520 we have, it's going to cause real problems, and it already has.

00:10:28.920 And I think some of the divisiveness we see in society is because we don't feel like

00:10:33.540 we're pulling in the same direction.

00:10:35.560 And that's why, if you think about even the word debate, we talk about, well, the importance

00:10:39.400 of debate, right?

00:10:40.760 But would you say that what happens on a morning TV channel that I've been on and I've done

00:10:46.180 those debates, is that really a debate?

00:10:49.460 Is that two people trying to arrive at a conclusion by testing each other's ideas?

00:10:53.700 Not really.

00:10:55.100 You know, those are two enemies fighting and trying to win.

00:10:58.600 To me, a debate is more like what me, you, and Anton have around the studio when we're

00:11:02.340 talking about sometimes quite difficult subjects.

00:11:04.960 And, you know, you put an idea forward and I put the opposite idea forward and Anton's

00:11:09.020 got his own idea.

00:11:10.140 And we sit around and we talk.

00:11:11.520 And then eventually we either come to an understanding or we agree to disagree or whatever.

00:11:15.700 But that's a debate.

00:11:17.380 And the reason that works is we're all pulling in the same direction.

00:11:20.180 But if we've got to a point as a society where we feel so disconnected from each other that

00:11:25.780 our fellow citizens are our enemy, that we don't want to get to a common understanding,

00:11:31.940 what we want is to destroy them.

00:11:33.640 What we want is to humiliate them.

00:11:35.220 What we want them is for them to lose.

00:11:37.380 That's not a recipe for a healthy society.

00:11:41.420 And most importantly, it's not a recipe for a society that's going to be able to defend

00:11:45.360 itself or project its power internationally, which is what we have to do.

00:11:49.140 And obviously social media has been, when it comes to this particular issue, you're more

00:11:55.280 positive than social media.

00:11:55.900 Follow me on Twitter.

00:11:56.760 Yeah.

00:11:57.420 I mean, you're more positive than social media than I am.

00:12:01.580 I'm a lot more negative about it.

00:12:04.040 But, I mean, that's been a disaster for debate, surely.

00:12:07.720 Look, you say I'm more positive than you.

00:12:11.440 I think I'm just more realistic than you, which is that it's not going away.

00:12:14.820 Right?

00:12:15.240 Yeah.

00:12:15.640 It's not going away.

00:12:16.500 You hesitate to say yeah to that because you'd like to smash.

00:12:20.320 But, see, there isn't a place you could go with a hammer and break it all down anymore.

00:12:24.120 No.

00:12:24.600 It's not going to happen.

00:12:25.460 Yeah.

00:12:25.940 So, we have social media.

00:12:28.320 And it's up to us to learn to use it.

00:12:30.880 I think we will eventually.

00:12:32.160 I think there will be regulations and rules in place that allow it to be a place that's

00:12:36.780 healthier.

00:12:38.320 And I hope that, you know, depending on who gets elected, that may be more restrictive

00:12:42.500 or less restrictive.

00:12:43.280 And, of course, you and I both have tremendous concerns about the regulation.

00:12:47.020 But we also think some regulation will have to come in to deal with it.

00:12:50.420 Right?

00:12:51.700 Social media hasn't been great in some ways.

00:12:53.880 But, on the other hand, look at what we do.

00:12:56.260 We give people an opportunity to listen to somebody talk.

00:12:59.300 And I hope that what we do on trigonometry is facilitating genuine discussion.

00:13:04.920 And we wouldn't be where we are without social media, without all these technologies.

00:13:08.720 So, I really think it's about learning to use it properly.

00:13:12.080 And I think that we will eventually get to a position where we're able to do that as a

00:13:17.620 society.

00:13:18.440 Like I say, it will require the tech companies to modify things.

00:13:21.400 It will require regulation.

00:13:22.460 It will require self-restraint, too.

00:13:24.160 I mean, the way I use social media has changed in the last couple of years.

00:13:28.020 I used to just love trolling people on it.

00:13:31.040 That doesn't sound like you, mate.

00:13:32.360 But, actually, if you look at my Twitter now, I really don't tend to do that anymore.

00:13:36.360 Yeah.

00:13:36.700 It's quite rare for me because I'm trying to be a bit more sensible, a bit more responsible

00:13:40.280 with the way that I use it.

00:13:42.080 And I think a lot of people are feeling that way, actually.

00:13:43.860 So, I think a lot of the solutions will come from people themselves taking responsibility

00:13:47.720 for their actions.

00:13:48.960 Yeah.

00:13:49.520 I do know what you mean.

00:13:50.660 The part of social media that just makes me deeply uncomfortable, and it's this knowledge

00:13:57.380 that our brains are being hacked.

00:13:58.940 We're showing the most outrageous content, because that's the thing that we're going

00:14:03.560 to engage with, because it stirs our emotions.

00:14:06.020 And if you feel angry about something, then you're going to want to do something about it.

00:14:09.900 You're going to get into an argument, and you're going to spend more time on the platform,

00:14:14.300 and we all know how it goes.

00:14:16.080 Do you not worry about that?

00:14:17.420 Of course I do.

00:14:18.700 All I'm saying is it's not going away.

00:14:20.540 Yeah.

00:14:20.720 It's like, you know, when the printing press was invented and all these publications came

00:14:25.360 out again, people who had been mostly illiterate didn't have a chance to read anything like

00:14:30.320 that, and it caused, you know, 150 years of religious war and conflict.

00:14:35.000 So, that may happen.

00:14:36.380 Yeah.

00:14:37.220 No, well, good to be positive, right?

00:14:39.980 Yeah.

00:14:40.120 But you know what I'm saying is, like, the only thing that I can do about that is be

00:14:44.320 responsible with what I do and advocate for policies which I think will mitigate some

00:14:48.320 of those disruptive factors.

00:14:49.920 That's all either of us can do, and I'm trying to do my best, and I think you are as well.

00:14:53.700 And we've got a great interview with Jaron Lanier coming out about that.

00:14:56.980 Yeah, absolutely, and that was a thrill.

00:14:59.240 One of the fathers of virtual reality to talk to him about, you know, the way the internet

00:15:03.880 started, the utopian ideals it had, and now where it's ended up.

00:15:07.260 It's a brilliant interview.

00:15:08.520 Plus a white man with dreadlocks.

00:15:09.940 Exactly.

00:15:10.260 Can't go wrong.

00:15:10.800 Yeah, exactly.

00:15:11.840 Definitely a vegan.

00:15:12.980 We don't know that.

00:15:13.720 He might not be.

00:15:14.180 He lives in California, of course.

00:15:15.320 Definitely a vegan.

00:15:16.040 But looking at your book and reading your book, there's an affinity between us in that

00:15:22.440 I think it's because the reason we see the world the way we see it, in particular the

00:15:28.060 West, is because we've seen something else.

00:15:31.980 Whereas I think part of the problem is that if you're born into this system, this is just

00:15:38.780 normal, isn't it?

00:15:39.300 Yeah, you think it's never going to change.

00:15:40.800 You take it for granted.

00:15:41.580 I absolutely agree with you, and that's why I wrote the book, because I'm trying to

00:15:46.040 give, you know, I really, you know, I think there'll be people, of course, who see me

00:15:49.600 as, you know, this culture warrior and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:15:53.300 But actually, I've written the book in a way that I hope will be really easy for people

00:15:56.820 who normally might disagree with me to read, because I want them to see the West through

00:16:02.820 a foreigner's eyes and understand what, in Russia, we have a saying, everything is understood

00:16:08.320 in comparison.

00:16:10.280 If you think the West, and let's say Britain in particular, these racist, evil countries,

00:16:16.860 the question I always want to ask is, compared to what?

00:16:19.540 This is one of Thomas Sowell's great questions for dealing with progressive thinking.

00:16:23.940 Compared to what?

00:16:24.880 At what cost?

00:16:25.580 And I can't remember the third one now, right?

00:16:27.560 But compared to what is a crucial thing.

00:16:29.780 If you're comparing it to some utopia, maybe you could argue the West isn't as good as it

00:16:34.580 could be, but if you're comparing it to every other human society that's ever existed, we're

00:16:38.960 actually doing really well.

00:16:40.200 And that's what I wanted to get across to people.

00:16:42.880 And, you know, as you know, probably the most controversial chapter in the book is about

00:16:47.160 slavery.

00:16:48.060 And I make the point in every interview that I've done that, you know, a lot of people

00:16:52.160 are running around saying, oh, we talk about it too much and whatever.

00:16:55.040 I actually think, and I'm sure you'll agree with me as a former teacher, we don't teach

00:16:59.500 enough about slavery, but what we do teach is only one tiny aspect of it, which is the

00:17:05.400 transatlantic slave trade.

00:17:06.780 But if you put that in the broader context of the human experience, most people don't

00:17:11.060 know that human beings were the first good that was ever traded, right?

00:17:14.680 Slavery has been with us since the beginning of time.

00:17:18.080 And the only thing that makes the Western attitude to slavery unique, really, I mean, there

00:17:23.400 was a few things that were to do with technology, the ability to transport large numbers of people

00:17:27.920 across an ocean, although the trans-Saharan slave trade was doing that across Africa,

00:17:33.140 not on ships, but on land.

00:17:35.180 But it was really the fact that we ended it.

00:17:37.460 The West ended slavery when it was happening in Russia, when it was happening in Africa,

00:17:41.700 when it was happening in the Middle East, when it was happening everywhere.

00:17:44.860 The colonial powers actually spent an awful lot of energy and money and time ending it.

00:17:50.440 And the trans-Saharan slave trade, which had a higher death rate, which had more slaves

00:17:54.980 involved in it, it only ended because the West came in and basically made it stop, right?

00:18:00.580 So, yes, we must understand the terrible periods in our history when we've done the wrong thing

00:18:06.240 or did things that we now regret.

00:18:07.940 But it has to be seen as a part of a bigger context.

00:18:10.580 And I think that's really important to get across to people, which is why I use the example

00:18:14.220 of my grandfather, who was taken to Germany as a slave laborer during World War II, or my

00:18:19.880 great-grandfather, who was kept in a gulag because he was useful.

00:18:23.040 He was a slave.

00:18:24.320 Like, this isn't as simple an issue as Dr. Scholar screaming about it.

00:18:28.900 Do you see what I'm saying?

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00:18:59.900 Yeah.

00:19:00.240 And also, as well, it doesn't take into account that there's more slaves than ever at the

00:19:05.580 moment.

00:19:06.340 Modern-day slavery.

00:19:07.500 Right.

00:19:07.740 But we don't seem to want to address that or talk about it.

00:19:10.400 There's not many careers to be built on talking about that.

00:19:12.560 That's the problem.

00:19:13.300 Yeah.

00:19:14.160 And I think that is part of the problem.

00:19:16.080 But one of the things that I've noticed in the West more and more, and maybe it's just

00:19:21.200 become a bit more aware of it or it's become more prevalent.

00:19:23.700 I'm not sure which is which.

00:19:25.300 It's just the self-flagellation.

00:19:27.760 This constant apologising, which is also, it's not just the fact that people in the

00:19:33.120 West do it.

00:19:33.760 It's if you're Western, middle class, and white.

00:19:36.660 And all of a sudden, it seems for large swathes of these people, they go around apologising

00:19:42.020 for things that happened hundreds of years before they were born.

00:19:45.100 It doesn't make any sense.

00:19:46.840 No, it doesn't.

00:19:47.520 But what I think has happened there is, I talked about this in my first interview with

00:19:52.140 John Anderson.

00:19:52.720 I think it's weaponised empathy.

00:19:55.400 I think people have worked out that people in the West, particularly people who are comfortable,

00:19:59.960 who grew up with genuine advantages in life, like money and an opportunity to go to a good

00:20:04.900 school and two parents and all of these things, they feel guilty.

00:20:09.660 They've been made to feel guilty because probably they don't have that many struggles in

00:20:14.400 their life on the sort of historical perspective scale.

00:20:17.980 And so they need something to sort of invest themselves emotionally into.

00:20:23.120 And there are some people who've worked that out.

00:20:25.360 These activists have worked that out.

00:20:27.060 And they're pushing this agenda, knowing that it's going to, they're going to persuade people.

00:20:30.680 And that's why you've got Gary Lineker, who clearly doesn't know a thing about a thing,

00:20:34.160 doesn't know anything about anything except football, banging on about this stuff constantly.

00:20:39.200 And because he gets the likes and the dopamine hits and the whatever.

00:20:42.960 And that's why it's happening, because it's weaponised empathy and then it's rewarded.

00:20:47.940 If you go around self-flagellating, people are going to pat you on the back and say,

00:20:51.280 oh, well done.

00:20:52.660 Whereas if you say, actually, I'm not responsible for something that people did 300 years ago,

00:20:57.820 you're automatically a bigger, you're racist and all this other stuff.

00:21:00.920 So that's disincentivised.

00:21:02.540 But if you think about it, if you just pause for a second, just take stock of what we're

00:21:07.500 talking about, I use this in the book, even in the Torah, one of the oldest scriptures,

00:21:14.560 which is by no means progressive, let me tell you.

00:21:17.280 I'm sure it's got a few problematic passages in it.

00:21:19.840 It's probably a bit transphobic.

00:21:21.200 It talks about how children must not be punished for the sins of their fathers,

00:21:25.700 and fathers must not be punished for the sins of their children.

00:21:28.280 We have gone backwards so far, we are now in prehistoric times in terms of our attitudes

00:21:36.980 to things.

00:21:38.000 We're literally trying to hold people accountable for something relatives of theirs did that they

00:21:44.020 never even met.

00:21:45.440 And in most cases, they aren't even relatives, Francis.

00:21:48.880 They are people who just happen to have the same skin colour.

00:21:51.980 Not even, by the way, the same ethnicity like you, right?

00:21:54.940 You are descended from Irish and Venezuelan people, right?

00:21:59.640 I don't think your ancestors would have been that heavily involved in the slave trade,

00:22:03.740 yet someone would look at you and go, well, you're responsible, you need to apologise,

00:22:07.240 and you need to pay reparations.

00:22:09.120 This is an ass-backward idea that is millennia, people millennia, like when they were just herding

00:22:15.720 sheep, they knew this was wrong.

00:22:17.620 And we're doing now in the modern world.

00:22:19.380 It seems to me that, and it's one of the things that we're doing in one of the things

00:22:26.140 that you talked about in your book, that you put it more eloquently than me, it seems like

00:22:30.120 we've got, the West is this block of Jenga.

00:22:33.780 You know the game Jenga?

00:22:34.720 Yeah.

00:22:35.280 And we just seem to be pulling out pieces randomly, without even considering why the piece

00:22:40.260 is there, or actually what it's upholding.

00:22:42.640 That's a great metaphor, and that's exactly how I feel.

00:22:46.300 Mate, I didn't need the book, just that little metaphor is good.

00:22:50.420 But that's it.

00:22:51.560 That's it.

00:22:52.000 And you know, one of the things I talk about right, as you know, at the very, very, very

00:22:56.160 end, it's literally the last passage of the book, is my grandmother, who was born in a

00:23:02.380 concentration in the Gulag, and when her parents were eventually released, anyone who was a

00:23:08.740 prisoner in the Gulag was not allowed to live in the major cities of the Soviet Union.

00:23:14.320 They had to live in the periphery, in the small towns far away from the center.

00:23:20.340 And the only people that lived in these remote towns were people who'd been in the Gulags

00:23:24.760 as prisoners, people who'd been in the Gulags as camp guards, and the local native population

00:23:30.460 who were very small.

00:23:31.760 So basically, you had, let's say, a town of 10,000 people, and most of the people there

00:23:36.620 would have been former prisoners in the Gulag, and a lot of the other people were guards

00:23:40.480 in the Gulag, right?

00:23:42.820 And my grandmother's family lived in the same landing as a family where the man had been

00:23:50.640 a guard in one of these camps.

00:23:53.600 And when Stalin died, there was a big revelation.

00:23:58.960 The Khrushchev exposed the cult of personality.

00:24:02.540 They condemned all the atrocities and the excesses.

00:24:05.140 They said it was not the party wishes.

00:24:07.240 It was Stalin himself and whatever.

00:24:08.860 And they basically apologized and exposed what had been happening.

00:24:13.040 And a lot of these men who had been guards in the camps, they ended up shooting themselves

00:24:19.120 because they so believed in this ideology.

00:24:22.920 They so believed that they can demonize people that they disagree with.

00:24:27.240 Oh, they must be in the camp for a good reason, right?

00:24:30.260 We're justified to condemn these people.

00:24:33.120 We're justified to treat them like they're second-class citizens, to talk down to them,

00:24:36.940 to call them names, to bully them.

00:24:39.180 We're justified in all of this because we have the right ideology.

00:24:43.540 And this is kind of my invitation to people who are maybe not naturally aligned with some

00:24:48.660 of the stuff that you and I talk about is don't be one of those people.

00:24:53.100 Don't be one of these useful idiots who goes along with treating people badly because you

00:24:58.280 believe you have the right ideology.

00:25:00.560 You're not a good person if you're sending J.K.

00:25:02.920 Rowling death threats.

00:25:04.160 You're not.

00:25:05.300 You're not a good person if you're demonizing people who voted in a referendum in a different

00:25:10.380 way to you.

00:25:11.380 You're not doing good.

00:25:13.120 You're not helping.

00:25:14.340 You're making things worse.

00:25:15.920 And likewise, by the way, on the right, it's the same.

00:25:18.000 You know, every time you genuinely attack people or sort of dehumanize people who are of a

00:25:25.820 different point of view to you, you're not helping.

00:25:28.600 Now, you and I will joke and we're comedians and we will satirize and mock and whatever,

00:25:32.080 and that's all fine, you know.

00:25:33.640 But I think that there's lines that we don't want to cross in the name of ideology.

00:25:38.280 And it worries me that here in the West we're doing that a lot.

00:25:41.660 And the example I give, you know, the Americans obviously were the first to develop a nuclear

00:25:46.640 bomb.

00:25:47.820 And the Soviets were nowhere near.

00:25:50.680 Do you know how they got one?

00:25:52.460 No.

00:25:52.980 There were two, particularly, there were two very big names.

00:25:59.620 I think Klaus Fuchs is one of his names and there was another one.

00:26:03.140 Two people who were involved in the Manhattan Project in the United States who were sympathetic

00:26:08.880 to the communist cause.

00:26:10.100 And they basically gave Stalin, the Soviet Union, the nuclear bomb because they were

00:26:18.900 ideologically supportive of the regime.

00:26:21.380 That's what ideology will do to people.

00:26:24.040 That's why one of the opening bits of the book is I talk about how living in the Soviet

00:26:27.880 Union taught me never to buy into someone else's ideology because it will make you always,

00:26:32.320 always make you violate your own principles and make you do bad things.

00:26:36.820 This is actually what I found interesting about Douglas Murray's review.

00:26:40.100 In the Telegraph, which he was very generous with, he quoted that line because I think

00:26:44.520 that's true.

00:26:45.560 And that's why, you know, when we talk about the direction of the show, we never wanted to

00:26:49.860 be on the right or on the left.

00:26:51.980 We're trying to explore each issue on its merits and not be ideological because ideology will

00:26:57.900 always blind you.

00:26:58.700 Whatever that ideology is, whether it's progressivism or conservatism or liberalism or libertarianism

00:27:05.160 or feminism or whatever area you have where you're looking at things ideologically instead

00:27:11.020 of on the basis of the facts, you're going to find yourself doing things you don't agree

00:27:14.500 with later in life.

00:27:15.380 And that's why I try and stay away from it.

00:27:17.260 And it's also as well, it strikes me, it's all people who follow a particular ideology.

00:27:24.880 When you're so certain about something, 100% certain, it's a dangerous place to be.

00:27:34.340 You should always have room for doubt.

00:27:35.940 You should always have room for doubt because we're all fallible.

00:27:39.440 We're all human.

00:27:40.200 We're all flawed.

00:27:41.420 None of us is perfect.

00:27:42.560 None of us is all seen.

00:27:43.600 None of us is all knowing.

00:27:44.900 And that's a problem for me with a lot of the ideology that you criticise is that phrase,

00:27:50.020 we're on the right side of history.

00:27:51.560 And my own response is, how do you know?

00:27:53.720 Yeah.

00:27:54.440 How do you know?

00:27:55.420 How do you know about people 200 years are going to view you?

00:27:59.800 You know, if you look at the way we look at people 200 years ago, it's not favourable.

00:28:03.840 So what makes you think you're any better?

00:28:06.380 I agree.

00:28:07.380 I agree.

00:28:07.780 And I think that's why you've always got to be careful.

00:28:12.620 This is why I think it's really important to constantly be checking with yourself about

00:28:17.600 your actions.

00:28:18.540 And I'm not saying my actions are always perfect, by the way, but I am constantly doing this

00:28:23.380 and going, are my actions the actions of a person that I like and respect?

00:28:30.300 Because it doesn't matter what your ideology is.

00:28:32.800 You can believe in progress and equality and all of this stuff.

00:28:36.460 But as you and I know from the comedy industry, there are lots of people who believe that

00:28:41.240 and bang on about it while groping women in the green room, right?

00:28:44.920 And it's the same with almost anything.

00:28:47.900 Like I say, if you're a hateful person, I don't care what your ideology is.

00:28:53.380 I don't care how accurate it is.

00:28:54.660 You're a hateful person, right?

00:28:56.440 And that's my worry with ideology.

00:28:59.180 That's how you can excuse yourself for being a nasty person or a hateful person or a person

00:29:04.280 that attacks people or, as in the case of our former guest, James Cavarini, you know,

00:29:09.140 he has a fundraiser with J.K. Rowling and people now smashing in windows in his restaurant

00:29:14.480 or writing one-star reviews or whatever.

00:29:18.580 You know, you've got to check in with yourself and go, this isn't right.

00:29:22.500 Why am I doing this?

00:29:24.220 Why am I attacking people?

00:29:25.620 Why am I trying to smear people?

00:29:27.080 Why am I destroying people's careers?

00:29:28.800 Now, as I say, again, you and I mock people that we disagree with.

00:29:32.860 We mock stupid ideas and we will always continue to do that.

00:29:35.620 But I'd like to think we've never gone after anyone's career.

00:29:38.560 We've never tried to destroy their livelihood or anything like that.

00:29:42.460 Because I think that's really when you know that you've got to the wrong place.

00:29:47.020 And part of the problem as well with this ideology and all ideologies

00:29:52.540 is that it's a really easy way for people to mask who they truly are.

00:30:02.640 Where they go, oh, I'm this progressive liberal.

00:30:05.320 And it's a fantastic cloak for behaviour that is despicable and vile and wrong.

00:30:13.180 And we've seen it time after time.

00:30:15.260 But we joke about it in our own industry in comedy.

00:30:18.340 Well, former industry.

00:30:19.380 Former industry in comedy, we always said,

00:30:22.380 it's always awoke as comedians that are the biggest perverts.

00:30:26.000 Because what a fantastic way to cloak yourself

00:30:29.780 than by pretending to be virtuous.

00:30:32.780 Yeah, exactly.

00:30:33.800 And so that's why I think it's really important

00:30:36.200 not to buy into any ideology and to think those things through.

00:30:39.900 But I also think, you know, I wanted to write the book

00:30:43.540 because I want to lay these issues to rest.

00:30:46.160 So that, like we said at the very beginning, we can focus on the things that matter.

00:30:49.720 I think that's really important.

00:30:50.680 And that's one of the reasons, you know,

00:30:52.480 we talk about certain issues that people would consider progressive.

00:30:58.120 But not as much as we used to.

00:30:59.620 Because I think we'll continue, obviously,

00:31:01.820 to call out things that are wrong on both right and left.

00:31:04.880 But as I say, I think we've got a lot of bigger fish to fry at the moment in society.

00:31:09.100 And we've got to focus on that.

00:31:10.340 And I think people are waking up to that, slowly but surely.

00:31:13.300 You know, it's all very well screaming at Twitter

00:31:15.660 that somebody has missed, you know, not used the correct pronoun, etc.

00:31:19.780 But if you can't afford to fill your car up, does it really matter?

00:31:24.140 Exactly.

00:31:24.520 So, that being the case, looking back at the Soviet Union and living in that,

00:31:34.600 what was it like growing up in that country, in that system?

00:31:40.360 Well, this is one of the reasons that I think the book is so relevant now.

00:31:43.560 I mean, my grandfather, so I've mentioned about five grandfathers at this point,

00:31:48.420 and they're all different ones.

00:31:49.260 My grandfather, who lived in the UK, who moved to the UK,

00:31:53.020 the reason he ended up in the UK is that he criticised the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

00:31:58.960 And when he did this, he was made unemployable, ostracised by many of his friends,

00:32:04.340 and eventually was forced to leave the country and find a new job.

00:32:08.860 How unfamiliar is that to the 21st century Western countries?

00:32:13.860 Someone expressing the wrong opinion, being made unemployable,

00:32:17.680 and ostracised by their friendship circle.

00:32:21.460 Not that unfamiliar, right?

00:32:23.020 No.

00:32:23.340 So, I'm afraid we're adopting some of the worst elements of that society.

00:32:30.160 And there will be other parallels when people read the book

00:32:34.100 and read about some of the things that used to happen.

00:32:36.880 I think you'll open their eyes, because to most people,

00:32:39.640 they think that what's happening in the West now is new and unprecedented

00:32:45.120 and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but it's really not.

00:32:48.560 Even if you look at, you know, I know many of our audience will know this,

00:32:51.740 because I've talked about this before, but for those who don't,

00:32:54.540 political correctness isn't something that happened in the 1990s

00:32:58.820 and pissed off Richard Littlejohn and Kelvin McKenzie and other tabloid editors.

00:33:04.540 Political correctness comes from the Soviet Union.

00:33:06.680 I have a whole chapter in the book about speech and how it's being misused now

00:33:12.140 and the way that words are being changed.

00:33:14.760 And political correctness was a way of preventing people from expressing an opinion

00:33:18.440 that was countered to the party line.

00:33:20.800 Does that sound unfamiliar?

00:33:22.980 Not really.

00:33:24.240 So, this is my point.

00:33:25.240 We are adopting some of the worst elements of the very societies

00:33:29.200 that we spent decades trying to defeat.

00:33:32.060 But it wasn't, like all societies,

00:33:34.720 there was a lot of negatives with the Soviet Union,

00:33:37.420 but there was also some positives as well.

00:33:39.180 Oh, absolutely.

00:33:39.600 Well, again, I talk about,

00:33:41.180 there's a whole chapter in the book about this,

00:33:42.780 and it was my first ever article that I wrote.

00:33:45.520 It was called Growing Up in a Progressive Utopia.

00:33:47.720 It was on Quillette.

00:33:48.240 And I talk about the wealth, how little wealth inequality there was,

00:33:53.020 the fact that there was universal health care, education was free,

00:33:56.660 and in fact, university students were paid to study and all of this stuff.

00:34:00.320 But the cost of it, in my opinion, wasn't worth it,

00:34:03.200 and I detail the cost of it in the book.

00:34:06.180 Yeah, and the little things that I just found fascinating,

00:34:10.280 where if, you know,

00:34:11.700 you didn't have a choice about what your career was.

00:34:14.840 No, no, no.

00:34:15.420 You went to university,

00:34:17.420 you may get a choice as to what to study.

00:34:20.080 And then from there on,

00:34:21.280 you were assigned the job,

00:34:22.880 and you would go wherever you were sent.

00:34:26.280 And that was it.

00:34:27.360 And what happened if you went,

00:34:28.700 well, actually, you know what,

00:34:29.620 I don't want to be a biochemist.

00:34:31.720 I always really wanted to be a schoolteacher.

00:34:33.960 Look, at different stages, it would have been different.

00:34:38.160 It would have been dependent on the bribes you could pay,

00:34:40.740 on the connections you had.

00:34:41.900 It was all sort of based on that.

00:34:43.700 But generally speaking,

00:34:44.760 you would get a job assigned to you,

00:34:46.560 and you would go and do that job.

00:34:48.140 Do you know one of the things that I found so interesting

00:34:50.680 is when you talked to me about service culture in the Soviet Union,

00:34:56.520 and how the weight,

00:34:57.460 and how in ex-Soviet countries,

00:35:01.040 the service is always atrocious.

00:35:03.060 Let's talk about that a little bit.

00:35:04.320 Well, this is how you know a Chinese restaurant

00:35:06.000 is actually authentic,

00:35:07.060 as if you get shared service.

00:35:08.320 Oh, absolutely.

00:35:09.240 Yeah.

00:35:09.780 In the Soviet Union,

00:35:11.240 the reason that even now,

00:35:14.140 when you go to that part of the world,

00:35:15.580 the service might not be great in some places,

00:35:17.480 it's changing now,

00:35:18.420 because the people who are like that are sort of dying out,

00:35:21.100 or at least not working in restaurants,

00:35:22.520 it's usually younger people.

00:35:23.860 But the reason it was unfriendly and hostile

00:35:26.520 was that the waiter was the one who had the power.

00:35:29.580 Because they could give you a plate of food

00:35:33.920 that had a lot of meat on it,

00:35:35.600 or not much meat on it,

00:35:36.680 and you couldn't really do anything about it.

00:35:38.620 So they were the ones that were in charge.

00:35:40.920 It was the same with people

00:35:41.780 who would sell something to you in a shop.

00:35:43.740 They could afford,

00:35:44.840 they could get bribes off people

00:35:46.200 to get the right goods and stuff like that,

00:35:49.280 because everything was scarce,

00:35:50.720 and therefore they had the power

00:35:52.020 over the distribution of it.

00:35:53.740 So, in many ways,

00:35:55.800 it just incentivised corruption.

00:35:57.560 Of course it did.

00:35:58.500 Yeah, of course it did.

00:35:59.500 Which is one of the reasons

00:36:00.380 Russia has remained so corrupt today.

00:36:02.520 And all post-Soviet countries, really.

00:36:04.960 Particularly, other than the Baltics,

00:36:07.140 where the problem is lessened,

00:36:08.780 because they were never really fully part

00:36:10.240 of the Soviet Union that long.

00:36:12.040 You know, and the last time we were here,

00:36:14.880 we were talking about Putin,

00:36:17.460 and we were talking about the invasion,

00:36:19.560 and you saw that coming.

00:36:23.960 Why?

00:36:25.100 Especially, what was it?

00:36:26.440 Was it the background?

00:36:27.700 Was it seeing the way the West was going?

00:36:30.940 What was it that made you,

00:36:33.180 or that gave you that particular insight?

00:36:35.240 Well, after 2014,

00:36:37.780 it was clear that Putin was going to carry on

00:36:40.040 with what he was doing,

00:36:40.940 because there was no pushback from the West.

00:36:43.140 I think after 2020,

00:36:45.700 and Biden's election,

00:36:47.360 it was clear that this was going to be

00:36:49.140 an opportunity.

00:36:50.360 And I think also, like I said,

00:36:51.680 seeing how divided

00:36:53.000 Western society was,

00:36:56.080 I actually think in some ways

00:36:57.180 Putin perhaps made the same miscalculation

00:36:58.920 that I made,

00:36:59.720 which is I overestimated

00:37:01.760 how divided we are.

00:37:05.020 I thought we're more divided,

00:37:06.320 and the response would be less strong.

00:37:08.580 The response has actually been quite unified,

00:37:10.540 other than Germany,

00:37:11.700 from Western countries.

00:37:13.700 So I think it was those three things, really.

00:37:17.260 The fact that the United States

00:37:18.960 was taking its eye off the ball

00:37:20.180 with all of the election stuff

00:37:22.120 that was happening there.

00:37:23.120 The fact that the West was being perceived,

00:37:25.160 with Russian help, by the way,

00:37:26.480 of being very divided

00:37:27.540 and unwilling to assert itself.

00:37:29.520 And the fact that Putin already

00:37:31.080 took a piece of Ukraine in 2014,

00:37:32.780 and there wasn't really much pushback.

00:37:34.720 So going back and focusing

00:37:36.660 on the things that are happening

00:37:37.940 and the issues that we're talking about,

00:37:40.100 the big issue is, of course,

00:37:42.300 and we've touched on it before,

00:37:44.000 what is a woman?

00:37:46.460 And what we saw,

00:37:47.860 and what we've seen recently,

00:37:49.240 is this alliance between conservatives

00:37:51.660 and gender-critical feminists.

00:37:54.380 Yeah, that was never going to last, was it?

00:37:56.800 No.

00:37:57.620 No, absolutely not.

00:37:59.260 And it's starting to break apart,

00:38:02.060 or certainly throw at the edges.

00:38:03.540 No, I think it is breaking apart.

00:38:05.060 Yeah.

00:38:05.360 You see now J.K. Rowling

00:38:06.780 having spats with Matt Walsh

00:38:08.420 and all of this, of course it's breaking apart.

00:38:10.480 I think one of the reasons, actually,

00:38:11.920 is that I think the gender-critical feminists

00:38:14.220 feel that they're winning.

00:38:15.680 You know, you've got the Maya Forrestar,

00:38:18.100 the Kira Bell,

00:38:19.600 you know, you've got candidates now

00:38:21.580 who are talking about this

00:38:22.920 for running for leadership of the Tory party.

00:38:25.600 You're seeing other changes happening.

00:38:28.120 And I think they sort of think

00:38:29.240 they don't need the conservatives anymore,

00:38:31.620 and that's maybe one of the reasons

00:38:32.800 that they're willing to be

00:38:34.580 a bit more confrontational about it.

00:38:36.360 But the other thing is very interesting.

00:38:37.500 We've obviously just recorded

00:38:38.680 an interview with Louise Perry,

00:38:39.900 who I was very impressed by,

00:38:42.440 who is a feminist,

00:38:43.500 who's written a book called

00:38:44.540 The Case Against the Sexual Revolution.

00:38:46.680 And one of the things

00:38:47.380 that you probably noticed,

00:38:48.540 she was sort of talking about chivalry

00:38:50.440 and, you know,

00:38:51.600 not actual equality

00:38:52.920 and stuff like that.

00:38:53.760 And I think, you know,

00:38:55.120 this is probably going to annoy some people,

00:38:57.160 including in our audience,

00:38:58.240 but it does need to be said.

00:38:59.440 Like, the problem with feminism,

00:39:01.600 feminists never wanted equality.

00:39:04.280 They talked about it,

00:39:05.440 but that's not what they wanted.

00:39:06.680 And I don't blame them for it,

00:39:07.740 by the way.

00:39:08.020 I don't think equality

00:39:08.820 in that very narrow sense

00:39:11.080 is necessarily what

00:39:12.000 the right solution is.

00:39:13.440 But it was like,

00:39:15.280 I mean, I'll prove it to you.

00:39:16.400 No feminist wants equality.

00:39:17.640 Because think about this, right?

00:39:19.320 If you and I are friends

00:39:20.540 and we like each other,

00:39:21.340 but let's imagine that we didn't.

00:39:22.700 And you came over here

00:39:24.060 and spat in my face, right?

00:39:25.740 The chances are,

00:39:27.060 I would hit you.

00:39:28.220 That is the code between men.

00:39:30.120 We all know it.

00:39:31.020 We all approve of it.

00:39:32.040 It's fine.

00:39:32.600 It's the way it's always worked.

00:39:33.980 Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right?

00:39:35.420 There's not a feminist in the world

00:39:36.940 who says that if you were a woman

00:39:38.560 and you came over here

00:39:40.300 and spat in my face,

00:39:41.320 I should punch you.

00:39:42.440 There's no one

00:39:43.160 who's going to defend that.

00:39:44.120 If a feminist is asked about that,

00:39:45.560 they'll say,

00:39:46.200 well, male violence,

00:39:47.140 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:39:48.500 And, you know,

00:39:49.420 and basically,

00:39:50.000 they want you and me

00:39:51.460 to become a little bit more like them, right?

00:39:54.220 And what the smart feminists

00:39:57.300 are starting to realize,

00:39:58.420 actually,

00:39:58.900 the sexual revolution

00:39:59.760 has been really bad

00:40:00.900 for both sexes,

00:40:01.780 but especially for women.

00:40:03.700 Especially for women.

00:40:05.120 And I think that's part

00:40:06.020 of the other reason

00:40:06.700 that this alliance

00:40:07.700 is fraying or breaking apart

00:40:09.440 because now that I think

00:40:11.160 the gender-critical feminists

00:40:12.620 feel like they're making progress,

00:40:14.040 they're like,

00:40:14.380 oh, shit,

00:40:14.820 these guys that we've been aligned with,

00:40:16.600 they're not on our team,

00:40:17.560 which they're not,

00:40:18.800 by the way.

00:40:19.360 They're absolutely not.

00:40:20.780 And also,

00:40:21.980 they're starting to realize

00:40:22.960 that equality

00:40:23.520 wasn't really all

00:40:24.400 it was made out to be.

00:40:25.540 No.

00:40:26.220 You know?

00:40:26.860 And that's probably

00:40:27.940 going to be the next conversation

00:40:29.240 that we'll have as a society

00:40:30.440 because I've always,

00:40:32.440 you know,

00:40:32.740 feminism is a weird word

00:40:34.420 because it means

00:40:35.100 all things to all women, right?

00:40:38.080 There's about 53 different ways

00:40:39.700 of doing feminism,

00:40:40.720 some of which

00:40:41.280 I really agree with

00:40:42.740 and I think are great

00:40:43.440 and some of which

00:40:44.100 I think are damaging

00:40:45.160 and destructive

00:40:45.760 and quite pointless

00:40:46.600 and just people

00:40:47.580 who are angry at the dad.

00:40:49.960 And we're going to have

00:40:51.560 to work out a path

00:40:52.540 through that

00:40:53.500 as a society

00:40:54.800 because driving men

00:40:56.180 and women apart,

00:40:57.220 which some feminists

00:40:58.200 have tried to do,

00:41:00.000 I'm not sure

00:41:00.780 that's a good outcome

00:41:01.440 for society either.

00:41:02.960 So, as I say,

00:41:04.000 the smart feminists

00:41:04.700 are starting to realize

00:41:05.560 that actually we're going to have

00:41:06.600 to change the conversation

00:41:07.620 a little bit

00:41:08.260 and I think that will be

00:41:09.540 one of the next things

00:41:10.600 that we talk about

00:41:11.980 on the show

00:41:12.500 in a big way,

00:41:13.660 I suspect.

00:41:14.380 Yeah,

00:41:14.680 and it's also

00:41:15.240 the role of the family.

00:41:16.500 You sometimes wonder

00:41:17.760 that you see

00:41:18.420 all these people

00:41:19.780 having these pointless

00:41:20.640 conversations on Twitter.

00:41:22.620 No one's really

00:41:23.200 having kids anymore

00:41:24.100 and you think...

00:41:24.580 I am.

00:41:25.200 Yeah, you are.

00:41:25.920 Mate, when are you

00:41:26.540 going to get started?

00:41:27.560 Let's get poon-poon in here.

00:41:28.640 I don't know.

00:41:29.080 It's when Anton

00:41:30.000 and I get a surrogate

00:41:31.000 but anyway...

00:41:32.280 Mate, we've talked

00:41:33.380 with Louise Perry

00:41:34.040 about how bad that is.

00:41:35.080 Yeah.

00:41:35.460 How immoral

00:41:36.060 and unethical that is

00:41:37.060 and I agree with it by the way.

00:41:38.120 It is.

00:41:38.600 Absolutely it is

00:41:39.340 but you do think

00:41:41.780 would people

00:41:42.720 be having these

00:41:43.640 pointless conversations

00:41:45.000 if they had a family.

00:41:46.760 Right.

00:41:48.160 If they were able

00:41:49.080 to settle down

00:41:50.080 if things weren't

00:41:51.080 the way they were.

00:41:51.640 Now look,

00:41:52.520 you know,

00:41:52.780 you can always say,

00:41:53.680 you know,

00:41:53.920 you can blame

00:41:54.460 a variety of external factors

00:41:56.260 and ultimately

00:41:57.040 your life is in your hands

00:41:58.260 and yes,

00:41:59.060 I agree with that

00:42:00.000 but the reality is

00:42:01.280 it's becoming more

00:42:02.120 and more difficult

00:42:02.740 for people to start a family

00:42:04.100 and it's creating

00:42:05.660 a wealth of problems

00:42:07.560 that we're seeing

00:42:09.100 right the way

00:42:09.500 through society.

00:42:09.920 Well that's why

00:42:10.300 I have a whole chapter

00:42:11.000 in the book

00:42:11.440 about the housing crisis.

00:42:12.780 It's not just a book

00:42:13.860 about how the woke are idiots

00:42:15.160 because I don't think

00:42:16.040 there's any value in that.

00:42:16.860 I'm trying to talk about

00:42:17.780 how we get to a better society

00:42:19.480 and fixing the housing crisis

00:42:21.060 is going to be

00:42:21.700 one of the main ways

00:42:23.520 of doing that

00:42:24.140 in this country.

00:42:24.780 It's essential.

00:42:25.700 And this is what really

00:42:26.720 pisses me off

00:42:27.500 about Michael Go

00:42:28.280 is when he talks

00:42:29.100 about woke people

00:42:29.980 and I'm like,

00:42:30.720 you're a housing minister, mate.

00:42:33.380 You want people

00:42:34.160 to be conservative

00:42:34.940 yet you're not

00:42:35.920 incentivising them

00:42:36.960 to be conservative

00:42:38.060 because they've got

00:42:38.980 nothing to conserve.

00:42:40.360 They've got no assets.

00:42:41.760 So you can shut your mouth.

00:42:42.840 Not that I am

00:42:43.820 a big fan of Michael Go

00:42:44.900 but I think the problem

00:42:45.860 extends slightly beyond him.

00:42:47.800 We've seen,

00:42:48.680 you know,

00:42:49.220 we're not doing

00:42:50.120 what we need to be doing

00:42:51.080 for decades

00:42:51.600 on that issue now.

00:42:52.620 But he's done

00:42:53.180 very little to resolve it.

00:42:55.440 Admittedly,

00:42:56.060 like everybody else.

00:42:57.300 Yeah.

00:42:58.460 And so the point is

00:43:00.640 it's that

00:43:01.260 I think what we talk about

00:43:03.400 a lot on the show

00:43:04.560 and what you talked about

00:43:05.640 in your book

00:43:06.220 is, you know,

00:43:07.120 going back to that metaphor

00:43:08.320 of Jenga

00:43:09.480 of pulling things apart.

00:43:10.960 But isn't the problem

00:43:13.380 that there's these people,

00:43:14.800 there's a lot of people

00:43:15.860 of our generation

00:43:16.980 and younger

00:43:17.460 who feel they've got

00:43:18.660 nothing invested

00:43:19.480 in society?

00:43:20.620 Yeah, I think that's true.

00:43:22.220 I do also think,

00:43:23.640 as you know,

00:43:24.080 you know,

00:43:24.280 I've always been someone

00:43:25.140 who was very interested

00:43:26.040 in personal development

00:43:27.220 and making the most

00:43:28.140 of my life

00:43:28.780 and growing as a person.

00:43:31.000 I do think

00:43:31.580 the circumstances

00:43:32.320 are more difficult

00:43:33.300 than they've been

00:43:33.780 in the past

00:43:34.300 and I also think

00:43:35.580 they're going to get

00:43:36.080 even more difficult

00:43:36.860 but I also think

00:43:38.140 that's a reason

00:43:39.800 for people

00:43:40.520 of our generation

00:43:41.540 and younger

00:43:42.080 to work harder,

00:43:43.640 to be more creative,

00:43:44.700 to be smarter.

00:43:46.420 You know,

00:43:46.980 we can all sit here

00:43:47.820 and complain about

00:43:48.520 the state of the world.

00:43:49.860 If I know one thing,

00:43:50.960 if there's one thing

00:43:51.600 I know is

00:43:52.040 if you want your life

00:43:52.720 to be better,

00:43:53.560 you're going to have

00:43:53.960 to do something about it.

00:43:55.580 And that's the great thing

00:43:56.780 about the West,

00:43:57.460 isn't it, really?

00:43:58.400 That's the thing

00:43:59.400 about the West

00:44:00.000 is almost everywhere else

00:44:01.640 you have to have family,

00:44:02.940 connections,

00:44:03.400 and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:44:04.720 In the West,

00:44:05.740 if you're smart,

00:44:06.580 if you're talented,

00:44:07.420 if you're driven,

00:44:08.220 if you're creative,

00:44:09.320 you will make it.

00:44:10.460 And that's always

00:44:11.240 my message to people,

00:44:12.680 especially young people.

00:44:13.980 Young people do not

00:44:14.880 hear that enough, man.

00:44:15.880 I didn't hear

00:44:16.760 as a young person enough.

00:44:18.460 You live in a society

00:44:20.200 in which you can make it.

00:44:21.980 You can make something

00:44:22.820 of yourself.

00:44:23.700 And that's one of the reasons

00:44:24.660 that, you know,

00:44:25.580 I love living in Britain,

00:44:27.480 as you know,

00:44:27.920 but I am also very inspired

00:44:31.060 by some of the American

00:44:32.260 ways of thinking as well

00:44:33.320 because that go-get-it attitude

00:44:35.420 to me is inspiring.

00:44:36.600 I think it's really important.

00:44:38.300 And I've tried to have that

00:44:40.160 as part of our ethos

00:44:41.300 here on the show.

00:44:42.260 You know,

00:44:42.500 we've made a lot of ourselves

00:44:44.320 from a very low start,

00:44:46.060 I think it's fair to say.

00:44:47.020 And I think partly

00:44:47.580 is that you and I both have,

00:44:49.300 and Anton as well,

00:44:50.140 have that attitude.

00:44:50.980 Like, we want to get better.

00:44:52.360 We want to make the show

00:44:53.480 as good as possible.

00:44:54.680 I want to write a book.

00:44:55.800 You're going on a stand-up show.

00:44:57.160 We're doing live shows.

00:44:58.160 Like, we want to do stuff.

00:45:00.040 We want to create stuff.

00:45:01.520 And I,

00:45:02.400 that's always the message

00:45:03.660 I have for young people.

00:45:04.880 You know,

00:45:05.240 we talk about incels

00:45:06.660 and all these people.

00:45:07.560 Like,

00:45:08.440 no one's going to give it to you, man.

00:45:10.200 You've got to go out

00:45:11.240 and you've got to work for it.

00:45:12.600 And that's so,

00:45:13.480 I hear you on the housing crisis.

00:45:15.060 I know it's a big problem.

00:45:16.180 I have a whole chapter in the book.

00:45:17.820 But also,

00:45:19.000 everybody's just,

00:45:19.860 you're going to have to step up

00:45:20.920 if you want something.

00:45:21.800 Yeah.

00:45:22.100 You just are.

00:45:22.580 And this is a problem,

00:45:24.040 is that

00:45:24.460 we've been incentivized

00:45:27.000 to play victim.

00:45:27.960 Yeah.

00:45:28.760 And I am saying,

00:45:30.340 in the book,

00:45:31.140 it's not good for you.

00:45:32.380 Don't be a victim.

00:45:33.480 You're not a victim.

00:45:35.540 Everyone's a victim

00:45:36.260 and no one's a victim.

00:45:37.940 It's not helpful,

00:45:39.000 especially if you're a victim,

00:45:40.420 to think of yourself as a victim.

00:45:42.020 It's really not going to make

00:45:43.240 your life better.

00:45:44.100 It's just going to make it worse.

00:45:45.700 So,

00:45:46.180 instead of that,

00:45:46.880 focus on the positives.

00:45:47.980 What can you do?

00:45:48.960 What can you create?

00:45:49.880 What can you make

00:45:50.780 that's of value to other people?

00:45:52.120 If you do that

00:45:53.020 in this society,

00:45:54.260 unlike most others,

00:45:55.440 you will succeed.

00:45:56.440 And I think that is

00:45:57.560 a great point

00:45:58.860 to pause it.

00:46:00.200 And what we're going to do

00:46:01.360 is we're going to collect

00:46:03.000 your super chats,

00:46:04.220 your PayPal.

00:46:05.060 Send them through

00:46:05.800 and then I will look through them

00:46:07.760 during the break

00:46:08.700 with my glamorous assistant,

00:46:10.260 Anton.

00:46:10.820 And we are going to put

00:46:11.840 your questions

00:46:12.840 to Constantine.

00:46:14.380 So,

00:46:15.300 send through your PayPal.

00:46:16.800 Send through your super chats.

00:46:18.540 And during this very short

00:46:19.920 commercial break,

00:46:21.000 makes it sound

00:46:21.600 better sound professional,

00:46:22.820 doesn't it?

00:46:23.320 We're going to collect them

00:46:24.140 and we're going to put them

00:46:25.260 to Constantine.

00:46:26.220 Thank you so much

00:46:26.980 for watching, guys.

00:46:27.880 We'll be back

00:46:28.540 after these very short adverts.

00:46:31.440 See you soon.

00:46:32.700 Hey,

00:46:33.300 Constantine,

00:46:34.180 do you love

00:46:35.080 trigonometry?

00:46:36.340 I'm from Russia.

00:46:37.540 I cannot love anything

00:46:38.920 apart from vodka,

00:46:40.720 miserable literature

00:46:41.700 and the horrendous

00:46:42.900 downfall of my people.

00:46:44.480 But yes,

00:46:45.140 I find

00:46:45.580 trigonometry satisfactory.

00:46:47.180 And do you like

00:46:48.480 live shows?

00:46:50.000 Of course,

00:46:50.780 but only if it's

00:46:51.980 Chekhov play

00:46:52.800 about collapse

00:46:53.680 of Russian aristocracy

00:46:55.020 as they face death

00:46:56.420 and obscurity

00:46:57.240 before the glorious might

00:46:58.900 of the proletariat

00:47:00.040 and the beautiful revolution.

00:47:02.280 Okay, mate.

00:47:03.500 Well,

00:47:03.780 if you like

00:47:04.300 trigonometry live shows,

00:47:06.120 then get your credit card

00:47:07.700 out for the lads

00:47:08.760 because we're coming

00:47:10.320 to the Edinburgh Festival

00:47:11.960 this August.

00:47:13.320 We have only booked

00:47:14.320 two shows,

00:47:15.160 August 6th and 7th

00:47:16.680 because if we do more,

00:47:17.640 the comedy industry

00:47:18.340 will treat us

00:47:19.000 like the czars

00:47:19.860 and execute us.

00:47:21.140 That's right.

00:47:22.040 We're going to be in Edinburgh

00:47:23.140 for two days only.

00:47:25.560 Saturday's guest

00:47:26.420 is Andrew Doyle,

00:47:27.960 which is sure to sell out.

00:47:29.820 Our other guest

00:47:30.620 is Leo Kearse,

00:47:31.920 which means

00:47:32.300 when Nicola Sturgeon

00:47:33.320 hears about it,

00:47:34.280 she'll ban us

00:47:34.840 from Scotland herself.

00:47:36.220 Tickets are sure

00:47:37.120 to sell out

00:47:37.840 and when they're gone,

00:47:39.300 they're gone.

00:47:40.420 Click on the link below

00:47:41.580 and we'll see you

00:47:42.480 in Edinburgh

00:47:42.980 on the 6th

00:47:44.240 and 7th of August

00:47:45.400 at the gilded balloon

00:47:46.960 Teviot.

00:47:48.320 Come and see us

00:47:49.140 before hordes

00:47:49.900 of left-wing comedians

00:47:51.140 try to put us

00:47:52.020 in gulag.

00:47:55.320 We hope you're enjoying

00:47:56.860 this incredible interview.

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00:48:44.800 Plus,

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00:48:48.800 in the world.

00:48:50.500 We can't name them just yet,

00:48:52.480 but trust me,

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00:49:31.160 Hello guys

00:49:37.960 and welcome back.

00:49:40.160 Remember that you've still

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00:49:49.420 Do we want them

00:49:50.100 to buy the book,

00:49:50.680 by the way?

00:49:51.140 Oh yes,

00:49:51.720 and you want,

00:49:52.240 that is a good point.

00:49:53.180 Is it?

00:49:53.620 Yeah, it is a good point.

00:49:54.900 So if you buy,

00:49:55.520 you can also buy the book

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00:50:05.020 and as an audio book

00:50:06.040 as well.

00:50:06.460 Francis, I would say,

00:50:07.560 like obviously

00:50:07.920 I really appreciate

00:50:08.700 everyone's already

00:50:09.280 put the book

00:50:09.860 and people sending

00:50:10.580 super chats

00:50:11.120 and all of that.

00:50:11.700 The one thing

00:50:12.120 I would ask

00:50:12.740 is if you do plan

00:50:13.780 to get the book,

00:50:14.640 get it now

00:50:15.940 because any sale

00:50:17.400 between now

00:50:18.120 and Saturday

00:50:18.820 gets registered

00:50:19.680 for the Sunday Times

00:50:20.960 bestseller list

00:50:21.740 and I think

00:50:22.340 I'm very close

00:50:23.360 to being on it

00:50:24.400 if not already on it

00:50:25.400 but it's close.

00:50:26.560 So all the sales

00:50:28.060 that happen in this week

00:50:29.020 are like really,

00:50:30.100 really important

00:50:30.620 and so if you're planning

00:50:31.820 to get the book

00:50:32.560 or you're planning

00:50:33.580 to get it for a friend

00:50:34.720 or a family member

00:50:35.540 like now would be

00:50:36.500 a great time

00:50:37.140 from my perspective

00:50:38.180 but you know

00:50:38.740 I appreciate everyone

00:50:39.800 that's supporting us already.

00:50:41.160 Absolutely.

00:50:41.740 So get the book

00:50:42.240 next month guys.

00:50:43.320 Now,

00:50:44.000 now get it

00:50:44.760 as soon as you can.

00:50:46.120 So but thank you

00:50:46.840 everybody for watching.

00:50:48.140 Go for it.

00:50:48.560 We have got our first question

00:50:49.900 it's from

00:50:50.420 Emi Baker-Larner

00:50:51.980 and she says

00:50:53.160 I love a bit of EBL

00:50:54.000 what she's saying.

00:50:55.020 Yeah, absolutely.

00:50:55.700 So do we all.

00:50:57.400 She says

00:50:57.600 hi Constantine

00:50:58.360 now you and your wife

00:50:59.560 have become parents

00:51:00.540 how will you keep

00:51:01.760 your love letter

00:51:02.840 relevant to him

00:51:03.760 seeing that he's been

00:51:04.980 born here

00:51:05.620 and won't have had

00:51:06.980 the experience

00:51:08.060 you've both had

00:51:09.400 in your own lives.

00:51:10.720 Well,

00:51:11.320 one of the things

00:51:12.120 that I'm very keen on

00:51:13.460 is that he spends

00:51:14.460 a lot of time

00:51:15.840 with our both

00:51:17.340 both our families

00:51:18.620 in Eastern Europe

00:51:20.020 my family in Armenia

00:51:21.120 and sees a different world.

00:51:22.140 I know that

00:51:22.660 for example

00:51:23.320 you were born

00:51:23.920 in this country

00:51:24.560 but it was your experience

00:51:25.860 of being in Venezuela

00:51:26.900 and seeing that country

00:51:28.340 that it sort of

00:51:29.460 helped you understand

00:51:30.500 the broader context.

00:51:31.540 So I hope

00:51:32.060 I'm hopeful that

00:51:32.880 I doubt

00:51:34.100 Nicolai's children

00:51:34.980 will have that perspective

00:51:37.060 but my children

00:51:38.180 I think will.

00:51:39.240 Yep.

00:51:39.900 Great

00:51:40.380 first answer.

00:51:43.840 Eleanor Stansby

00:51:45.180 asks

00:51:45.920 what part of your book

00:51:47.720 am I going to cry at first?

00:51:51.080 Hmm.

00:51:52.080 I actually think

00:51:52.920 the preface.

00:51:54.080 Really?

00:51:54.580 Yeah.

00:51:55.440 I cry when I read

00:51:56.660 the preface.

00:51:59.040 There you go.

00:51:59.960 Why?

00:52:00.140 Because I put a lot of

00:52:00.980 a lot of my

00:52:01.780 a lot of

00:52:02.480 my

00:52:03.260 biggest fears

00:52:05.040 into it

00:52:05.520 I suppose

00:52:05.920 and also

00:52:07.080 you know

00:52:07.540 I wrote it

00:52:08.080 in a way

00:52:08.420 that I think

00:52:09.000 is

00:52:09.780 is kind of

00:52:10.720 quite

00:52:11.200 emotional

00:52:13.660 you know

00:52:14.580 and yeah

00:52:16.340 like I say

00:52:16.880 it's

00:52:17.560 it's kind of

00:52:18.760 I hope it's not prophetic

00:52:19.940 but if it is

00:52:21.160 then we're all in

00:52:22.280 for a rough time.

00:52:24.020 Okay.

00:52:24.920 Zoe Solanke asks

00:52:26.240 when writing the book

00:52:27.820 did it help you come

00:52:28.960 to any new conclusions

00:52:30.740 that you weren't

00:52:32.060 aware of before?

00:52:33.360 You know

00:52:33.840 one of the things

00:52:34.460 that writing the book

00:52:35.640 was really helpful

00:52:36.220 is because I had the focus

00:52:37.520 that I wanted

00:52:38.340 I wanted like

00:52:39.960 a random person

00:52:40.960 on the street

00:52:41.480 to be able to pick it up

00:52:42.620 I didn't want it

00:52:43.840 to be some sort of

00:52:44.660 like culture warrior

00:52:45.920 treatise

00:52:46.980 you know what I mean

00:52:47.560 so I wanted it

00:52:48.740 to be able

00:52:49.600 to be read

00:52:50.260 by people

00:52:50.820 who had a different

00:52:51.580 point of view to me

00:52:52.460 rather than just

00:52:53.280 you know

00:52:53.800 throwing red meat

00:52:54.900 to the base

00:52:55.440 if you like

00:52:55.880 it forced me

00:52:57.360 to really examine

00:52:58.160 my arguments

00:52:58.780 and to make sure

00:52:59.680 that they

00:53:00.200 that I was

00:53:02.320 making a good argument

00:53:03.860 instead of just

00:53:04.560 making fun of stupid

00:53:05.380 people who are

00:53:06.520 on the other side

00:53:07.640 of me

00:53:07.920 you know what I mean

00:53:08.460 because that's very easy

00:53:09.360 I really wanted

00:53:10.780 to make what I thought

00:53:11.720 was a good

00:53:12.320 and persuasive argument

00:53:13.240 that would win over

00:53:14.140 somebody who was a neutral

00:53:15.140 excellent answer

00:53:16.920 our next question

00:53:18.380 is from Mr Winter

00:53:19.380 oh great

00:53:20.440 he says

00:53:20.960 looks like he's got

00:53:21.780 his big boy pants

00:53:23.200 on today

00:53:23.700 despite the fact

00:53:24.840 that your pamphlet

00:53:25.600 will fill pound land

00:53:26.600 faster than your

00:53:27.340 headline is receding

00:53:28.320 and despite my book

00:53:30.040 published when I'm 25

00:53:31.220 is better

00:53:32.080 you've done well

00:53:33.380 so that was the first part

00:53:35.240 but then

00:53:35.800 he wrote

00:53:36.720 a second part

00:53:38.340 to it

00:53:39.040 where he says

00:53:39.600 bigotry aside

00:53:40.760 well done my friend

00:53:41.900 I wish you all

00:53:43.180 the success

00:53:43.940 that decaying west

00:53:44.920 can provide

00:53:45.500 my question is

00:53:47.120 can we stop

00:53:48.680 the tide

00:53:49.340 we stand against

00:53:50.300 I think we can

00:53:51.740 I really do think

00:53:52.880 we can

00:53:53.300 and that's why

00:53:54.820 if I didn't think

00:53:55.720 we could

00:53:56.020 I wouldn't bother

00:53:56.740 writing the book

00:53:57.400 to be honest

00:53:57.880 I wrote the book

00:53:59.000 because I think we can

00:53:59.960 I actually feel

00:54:00.700 that the pendulum

00:54:01.300 is slowing

00:54:01.840 I don't know

00:54:02.440 if it's swinging

00:54:03.040 back yet

00:54:03.680 and I have to say

00:54:05.600 you know

00:54:05.960 as much as I'm

00:54:06.840 concerned about

00:54:07.400 making sure

00:54:07.980 the pendulum slows

00:54:08.900 and stops

00:54:09.920 I do worry

00:54:11.020 about the overswing

00:54:11.900 because for every revolution

00:54:13.340 the counter revolution

00:54:14.420 is just as ugly

00:54:15.260 so I suspect

00:54:17.580 it's quite likely

00:54:18.960 that five or ten years

00:54:20.400 from now

00:54:20.720 you and I

00:54:21.120 are sitting here

00:54:21.640 talking about

00:54:22.280 the evil right wingers

00:54:23.400 who've gone too far

00:54:25.120 which at least

00:54:26.220 will be a more natural

00:54:27.100 place for us to be

00:54:28.020 yeah exactly

00:54:28.760 back to our roots

00:54:30.160 yeah because

00:54:30.680 you're Jewish

00:54:31.440 and I look Jewish

00:54:32.180 so

00:54:32.480 exactly

00:54:33.080 but you know what I mean

00:54:34.440 yeah of course

00:54:35.180 I'm concerned

00:54:36.040 we've got to make sure

00:54:37.460 that in opposing

00:54:38.240 some of the craziness

00:54:39.140 of the left

00:54:39.680 we don't become crazy

00:54:40.900 ourselves

00:54:41.280 I think that's really

00:54:42.160 important

00:54:42.540 absolutely

00:54:43.240 Richard the horse

00:54:44.680 and what a great

00:54:45.860 question from a horse

00:54:46.800 says

00:54:47.140 what's one thing

00:54:48.580 from another culture

00:54:49.580 that you think

00:54:50.760 the West could learn

00:54:52.260 from

00:54:52.660 or

00:54:53.500 should implement

00:54:54.680 oh there's no question

00:54:56.640 and you saw it

00:54:57.740 when you came to Armenia

00:54:58.620 it's family

00:54:59.640 large families

00:55:02.460 connected through

00:55:03.600 generations

00:55:04.300 cousins

00:55:05.460 and brothers

00:55:06.280 and sisters

00:55:06.860 who truly

00:55:07.780 love each other

00:55:08.520 and spend lots

00:55:09.200 of time together

00:55:09.900 we are becoming

00:55:11.280 very atomized

00:55:12.080 in the West

00:55:12.620 and I think

00:55:13.280 Rakib Exan

00:55:13.920 made this point

00:55:14.500 we talked about

00:55:15.080 how actually

00:55:15.560 a lot of the

00:55:16.420 ethnic minority

00:55:17.040 communities in the UK

00:55:18.160 do have that

00:55:19.460 cohesion

00:55:20.360 and family connection

00:55:21.580 that we are losing

00:55:22.640 and I think

00:55:23.980 that's really

00:55:24.660 really important

00:55:25.300 and I know

00:55:25.960 that it's

00:55:26.640 you know

00:55:27.520 one of the most

00:55:28.020 meaningful things

00:55:28.680 in my life

00:55:29.160 like I love

00:55:30.100 my life

00:55:30.640 right

00:55:31.280 the way

00:55:31.760 I love

00:55:32.520 what we do here

00:55:33.600 I love

00:55:34.200 the friendships

00:55:34.700 that we've built

00:55:35.500 with you

00:55:36.080 and with Anton

00:55:36.680 and with other people

00:55:38.060 you know

00:55:39.400 I'm loving everything

00:55:40.820 I loved writing the book

00:55:42.180 I love the fact

00:55:42.860 that it's not even

00:55:44.120 out yet

00:55:44.500 and thousands of people

00:55:45.500 have kindly bought it

00:55:46.640 and are going to read it

00:55:47.420 like it's incredible

00:55:48.220 my life

00:55:48.680 you know

00:55:49.380 my wife and I

00:55:49.920 have just had a baby

00:55:50.700 he's wonderful

00:55:51.960 like I love everything

00:55:53.120 but the fact

00:55:54.220 that I live far

00:55:54.840 from my family

00:55:55.540 is the one thing

00:55:56.460 that you know

00:55:58.340 it's difficult

00:55:59.000 it's genuinely difficult

00:56:00.460 and if there was one thing

00:56:02.160 I could change

00:56:02.900 about my life

00:56:03.580 without losing

00:56:04.240 all the good stuff

00:56:04.960 it would be that

00:56:06.040 and I do think

00:56:07.280 that far too many people

00:56:08.820 particularly as families

00:56:09.740 get smaller

00:56:10.380 as we move

00:56:11.220 after we

00:56:11.980 you know

00:56:12.800 leave school

00:56:13.520 or whatever

00:56:13.940 we're becoming

00:56:15.400 very disconnected

00:56:16.160 the number of people

00:56:17.020 who end up

00:56:17.560 in a home

00:56:19.360 when they're elderly

00:56:20.560 troubles me very much

00:56:22.060 it's not how

00:56:23.940 we should treat

00:56:24.620 our family

00:56:25.220 it's not how

00:56:26.260 we should treat

00:56:26.660 our parents

00:56:26.980 I'm not judging anyone

00:56:27.940 you know

00:56:28.480 for the individual

00:56:29.140 circumstances

00:56:29.820 I'm just saying

00:56:30.440 at the level of society

00:56:32.080 the disconnect

00:56:33.240 between different generations

00:56:34.580 is not good man

00:56:36.260 and if there's one thing

00:56:37.480 that we could pick up

00:56:38.220 from more traditional cultures

00:56:39.460 it's the preserving

00:56:41.420 the family

00:56:42.040 it's preserving

00:56:43.240 the big family

00:56:44.220 over generations

00:56:45.500 and over time

00:56:46.340 that's to me

00:56:48.400 that's really

00:56:49.020 really important

00:56:49.600 now of course

00:56:50.180 you know

00:56:50.760 I feel like

00:56:51.420 what we have here

00:56:52.380 is kind of a family

00:56:53.700 but it's not the same

00:56:55.000 you know

00:56:55.700 it's not the same

00:56:56.460 so

00:56:57.480 yeah

00:56:59.420 I think that's really important

00:57:00.580 and the other thing

00:57:01.460 you know what it is

00:57:02.220 Muslims are right

00:57:02.960 about gambling

00:57:03.620 horrible

00:57:05.320 awful awful vice

00:57:07.160 no joke

00:57:07.840 generally is

00:57:08.540 Amy Vowles

00:57:09.580 who

00:57:10.400 lovely lovely

00:57:12.120 supporter

00:57:12.820 of the show

00:57:13.580 she asked

00:57:14.400 was there a specific

00:57:15.220 moment when you realise

00:57:16.400 you love the Anglosphere

00:57:18.020 and do you have

00:57:19.400 a favourite

00:57:20.100 historical

00:57:20.820 Anglo figure

00:57:21.920 that you look up to

00:57:22.840 hmm

00:57:23.840 that's a good question

00:57:24.820 favourite historical

00:57:26.820 figure

00:57:27.680 I don't know

00:57:29.440 what I would say

00:57:30.540 is I am really

00:57:31.520 really interested

00:57:32.300 in the history

00:57:32.940 of the American Revolution

00:57:34.020 because this was a time

00:57:36.600 when people came together

00:57:38.080 and then they were forced

00:57:39.560 to conceive a new society

00:57:41.060 almost from scratch

00:57:41.960 in very

00:57:43.000 very unusual

00:57:43.960 I would say

00:57:44.500 unique circumstances

00:57:45.500 really

00:57:45.920 and because of that

00:57:47.180 they were forced

00:57:48.280 to think about

00:57:49.220 the way a society

00:57:50.040 should be organised

00:57:51.120 in a way that we

00:57:51.760 in Europe really don't

00:57:52.820 we're sort of like

00:57:53.680 oh yeah

00:57:54.500 hey you know

00:57:54.840 everything's worked out

00:57:55.800 we don't really have

00:57:56.400 to have these conversations

00:57:57.440 we can just sort of

00:57:58.380 argue about the tax rate

00:57:59.720 and you know

00:58:00.500 what a woman is

00:58:01.480 and whatever

00:58:01.840 and that's it

00:58:02.340 so I'm really interested

00:58:04.260 in that period

00:58:04.920 and there were a lot

00:58:05.580 of figures

00:58:05.980 who contributed a lot

00:58:07.480 to the way we now

00:58:08.400 think about things

00:58:09.180 that come out

00:58:10.200 of that period

00:58:10.820 but in terms of

00:58:13.500 when I realised

00:58:15.140 that I was very

00:58:16.100 I mean love

00:58:18.440 love is of course

00:58:19.180 in the title

00:58:19.640 but I really think

00:58:20.520 of it more as gratitude

00:58:21.600 you know

00:58:23.000 and I sort of feel

00:58:24.820 that every day

00:58:25.740 since I became an adult

00:58:27.060 and was present

00:58:27.880 to the difference

00:58:28.560 between what we have here

00:58:29.480 and what we have elsewhere

00:58:30.280 you know

00:58:31.200 and I tried to

00:58:32.880 you know

00:58:33.540 we talked about it

00:58:34.460 with Richard Grannon

00:58:35.120 I think it was

00:58:35.800 that every time

00:58:36.920 we have a meal here

00:58:37.760 we say grace

00:58:38.920 even though none

00:58:39.560 of us is religious

00:58:40.660 because it just

00:58:42.240 connects with that

00:58:43.360 gratitude

00:58:43.960 that I think

00:58:44.600 is really important

00:58:45.400 to have

00:58:45.900 particularly if you're

00:58:47.100 as fortunate

00:58:47.600 and as genuinely

00:58:48.600 privileged as we all are

00:58:50.020 so Cass 8228

00:58:53.420 with a very generous

00:58:54.460 super chat

00:58:55.000 thank you very much

00:58:55.880 Cass

00:58:56.220 you said

00:58:57.040 Francis the Jenga

00:58:57.880 you were talking about

00:58:58.900 is called deconstruction

00:59:00.140 it is a Marxist tactic

00:59:01.820 in brackets

00:59:02.960 post-modernist

00:59:03.780 that is meant

00:59:04.800 to tear apart

00:59:05.600 society

00:59:06.220 hence her name

00:59:06.900 it is meant

00:59:08.180 to deconstruct

00:59:08.980 society

00:59:09.560 so a Marxist

00:59:10.820 equity

00:59:11.460 regime

00:59:12.140 can be in stock

00:59:13.280 he's got no question

00:59:14.720 I think he's just

00:59:15.380 making a point

00:59:16.180 the man paid $100

00:59:17.660 let him make his point

00:59:18.740 yeah exactly

00:59:19.360 so that is a point

00:59:20.460 Cabeza del Vacio

00:59:22.540 meaning

00:59:23.380 the head of emptiness

00:59:24.920 or empty head

00:59:25.840 whichever way

00:59:26.420 you want to interpret it

00:59:27.360 says

00:59:27.720 if the West were to

00:59:28.860 write you a letter back

00:59:29.800 what do you think

00:59:31.340 it would say

00:59:31.920 and

00:59:34.100 the second question

00:59:35.100 is

00:59:35.460 what if it was written

00:59:36.160 by Mr Winton

00:59:36.920 he would say something

00:59:38.580 about Priti Patel

00:59:39.480 on the second one

00:59:40.920 I don't know

00:59:41.960 you know

00:59:42.400 it might sound cheesy

00:59:44.620 to some people

00:59:45.220 but I genuinely feel

00:59:46.800 very grateful

00:59:47.940 to be here

00:59:48.500 as I think you know

00:59:49.240 and I would just hope

00:59:51.400 that if the West

00:59:52.020 were to write a letter

00:59:52.820 back to me

00:59:53.400 it would also appreciate

00:59:55.400 that I've tried to make

00:59:56.420 the best of my time here

00:59:57.700 and contribute

00:59:58.740 to the society

00:59:59.500 and I feel that

01:00:00.220 even doing the show

01:00:01.460 forget about

01:00:02.480 it going on YouTube

01:00:03.480 just in terms of the fact

01:00:04.680 that you and I

01:00:05.860 have created

01:00:06.460 something here

01:00:07.500 that employs

01:00:08.180 like you know

01:00:09.660 probably the best part

01:00:11.540 of a dozen people

01:00:12.300 at this point

01:00:12.820 right

01:00:13.440 that have a meaningful

01:00:15.480 job that they love

01:00:16.880 and enjoy contributing to

01:00:18.460 that to me

01:00:19.700 you know

01:00:20.200 that's enough

01:00:21.900 I hope that I'm

01:00:23.360 contributing

01:00:23.800 and I hope that

01:00:24.600 you know

01:00:25.060 I was very touched

01:00:25.840 when Douglas said

01:00:26.520 that he

01:00:27.040 you know

01:00:28.320 I am

01:00:29.080 I express gratitude

01:00:30.520 to the West

01:00:31.140 and my appreciation

01:00:31.840 for it

01:00:32.360 and he said

01:00:33.720 we're lucky

01:00:34.160 to have him

01:00:34.800 like that to me

01:00:35.640 means a lot

01:00:36.300 yeah absolutely

01:00:37.300 Kieran Joseph says

01:00:38.700 wondering if FF

01:00:39.540 could

01:00:39.760 oh FFF

01:00:40.580 no if KK

01:00:41.520 could sign a copy

01:00:42.220 in Edinburgh

01:00:42.560 I'll sign it as well

01:00:43.660 mate

01:00:43.880 yeah

01:00:44.200 two for one

01:00:45.480 yeah if you come

01:00:47.400 to the live show

01:00:48.040 I'll come outside

01:00:49.000 and definitely sign it

01:00:49.780 for you

01:00:50.000 no problem

01:00:50.260 perfect Kieran

01:00:51.080 so there we go

01:00:51.820 we're going to look

01:00:53.040 through

01:00:53.400 we've got PayPals

01:00:54.580 as well

01:00:54.820 we do have PayPals

01:00:55.920 Jillian Colucci

01:00:57.260 with the very Italian

01:00:58.500 hey

01:00:59.060 this is not a row

01:01:00.320 but we will do

01:01:01.040 the accent anyway

01:01:02.160 exactly

01:01:03.160 it says

01:01:04.020 I increasingly encounter

01:01:05.060 people lacking the skills

01:01:06.160 to form an argument

01:01:07.060 what modification

01:01:08.600 can be made

01:01:09.360 in social media spaces

01:01:10.860 to help rebuild

01:01:12.660 these skills

01:01:13.220 and get back

01:01:14.360 to proper human discourse

01:01:16.060 mate I don't think

01:01:16.740 it's about social media

01:01:17.640 I think it's about education

01:01:18.620 if you're not taught

01:01:20.620 to think at an early age

01:01:22.140 and think through arguments

01:01:23.160 I mean would you agree

01:01:24.040 with this as a

01:01:24.880 former teacher

01:01:25.460 yeah we're not taught

01:01:26.640 how to argue

01:01:27.340 we're not

01:01:27.940 we're not

01:01:28.500 actually we started

01:01:29.960 to introduce it

01:01:30.920 at school

01:01:31.760 at school

01:01:32.420 like we did

01:01:33.500 as a group of teachers

01:01:34.460 in the last year

01:01:35.240 of primary school

01:01:36.060 and we taught

01:01:37.160 our children

01:01:38.040 to have discussions

01:01:39.660 to you know

01:01:40.880 to represent one side

01:01:42.900 to represent another side

01:01:44.260 and to listen

01:01:45.340 but I don't think

01:01:46.160 that goes on

01:01:46.640 in a lot of schools

01:01:47.300 if I'm being honest

01:01:47.840 well one place

01:01:49.000 that you would have

01:01:49.560 noticed it going on

01:01:50.580 a lot

01:01:50.980 is when you came

01:01:52.580 with me

01:01:53.260 to Armenia

01:01:54.140 yeah

01:01:54.580 in my family

01:01:55.160 this is so much

01:01:57.520 of where this all

01:01:58.340 comes from

01:01:58.740 and it's about parenting

01:01:59.720 yeah

01:02:00.040 in my family

01:02:01.680 there was a culture

01:02:02.360 of discussing ideas

01:02:03.460 and debating things

01:02:04.700 and things sometimes

01:02:05.680 getting heated

01:02:06.320 but no one crossing lines

01:02:07.760 no

01:02:08.080 it was just a conversation

01:02:09.420 which is what you

01:02:10.160 and I often do

01:02:11.020 Anton

01:02:11.520 and all of us

01:02:12.860 right

01:02:13.420 you have to educate

01:02:15.000 children from a young age

01:02:16.120 how to have

01:02:17.000 these discussions

01:02:17.700 if you don't

01:02:18.980 you can't then be upset

01:02:20.000 that they're not doing it

01:02:21.000 although I completely

01:02:22.020 agree with you

01:02:22.700 so we've cracked

01:02:24.500 through a lot of them

01:02:25.540 a lot of the old super chats

01:02:27.680 so we have got one

01:02:29.360 from Francois Grif

01:02:30.520 Francois Grif

01:02:31.360 he's from South Africa

01:02:32.580 he says

01:02:33.580 I'm not going to do

01:02:34.340 the rest of it in an accent

01:02:35.240 we'll save that for raw

01:02:36.680 legal immigrants

01:02:38.180 to western countries

01:02:39.160 are almost always

01:02:40.380 overachievers

01:02:41.040 Musk is the best example

01:02:42.400 yet legal immigrants

01:02:43.900 must jump through hoops

01:02:45.060 to get into America

01:02:46.180 Britain, Oz, etc

01:02:47.500 liberals on the other hand

01:02:49.180 and as a general rule

01:02:50.300 want to give

01:02:51.300 illegal immigrants

01:02:52.680 an easy entrance

01:02:53.920 why do you think

01:02:56.240 that is

01:02:57.600 and he says

01:02:58.100 by the way

01:02:59.520 it feels weird

01:03:00.100 not being allowed

01:03:01.080 to troll two top comedians

01:03:02.580 well

01:03:04.620 I think we've got to be careful

01:03:07.140 I don't think it's true

01:03:08.180 that you know

01:03:08.860 everyone on the sort of

01:03:10.160 liberal left

01:03:10.780 wants to make it easy

01:03:12.080 for illegal immigrants

01:03:13.460 to come here

01:03:14.060 but the reason

01:03:14.940 those of them that do

01:03:16.380 is

01:03:17.420 look

01:03:18.560 the right and left

01:03:20.800 both have problems

01:03:22.000 and they're different

01:03:22.820 in nature

01:03:23.300 the right is

01:03:24.160 sometimes too cold

01:03:25.680 and clinical

01:03:26.220 and analytical

01:03:26.900 and lacks compassion

01:03:28.240 where sometimes necessary

01:03:29.500 the left's problem

01:03:30.660 which is to Francois point

01:03:31.980 is

01:03:32.760 they have

01:03:33.600 too much heart

01:03:34.600 and not enough head

01:03:35.380 and so they're

01:03:36.360 well

01:03:36.480 I want everyone

01:03:38.280 to have

01:03:38.780 what we have

01:03:39.440 which is understandable

01:03:41.680 right

01:03:42.560 but they're not thinking

01:03:44.420 about the practical consequences

01:03:45.760 I think that's

01:03:46.580 where they're coming from

01:03:47.280 and by the way

01:03:48.480 I

01:03:49.120 I'm in favour

01:03:51.820 of

01:03:52.440 allowing a certain

01:03:54.500 small number

01:03:55.180 of refugees

01:03:55.820 who are properly vetted

01:03:56.960 to come to this country

01:03:58.360 but I think

01:04:00.140 illegal immigration

01:04:01.120 is an abomination

01:04:02.080 it shouldn't be happening

01:04:03.480 the fact that you've got

01:04:05.160 people getting into boats

01:04:06.360 and going over

01:04:07.160 it just shouldn't be happening

01:04:09.100 they're jumping the line

01:04:10.640 they're breaking the laws

01:04:12.060 of this country

01:04:12.540 we don't know who they are

01:04:13.480 we haven't made sure

01:04:14.360 look Francis

01:04:15.220 I'm a democrat

01:04:15.860 if the people of Britain

01:04:17.020 vote to have an open border

01:04:19.400 I mean I think that's

01:04:20.260 an idiotic idea

01:04:21.180 but they're entitled

01:04:21.920 to do that

01:04:22.460 and if the people of Britain

01:04:24.000 vote for restrictive

01:04:25.080 immigration policy

01:04:26.060 they're entitled

01:04:26.880 to do that as well

01:04:27.700 and the problem

01:04:28.860 we have now

01:04:29.600 is that

01:04:30.460 the policy

01:04:31.240 that was

01:04:31.860 that the politicians

01:04:33.220 keep talking about

01:04:34.240 and running on

01:04:35.020 when they stand

01:04:35.860 for parliament

01:04:36.440 and they stand

01:04:37.080 to be prime minister

01:04:37.880 is not what we're getting

01:04:39.660 and I think that's

01:04:41.000 a big problem

01:04:41.640 it's a big problem

01:04:42.900 that's storing up

01:04:43.800 a lot of resentment

01:04:44.600 for later

01:04:45.220 oh absolutely

01:04:46.140 because

01:04:46.680 it puts a pressure

01:04:49.360 on everything

01:04:49.920 it puts pressure

01:04:50.700 on housing

01:04:51.180 it puts pressure

01:04:51.820 on public services

01:04:52.960 no but my point

01:04:53.700 is something else

01:04:54.340 which is

01:04:54.880 forget about all that

01:04:56.040 it's whatever

01:04:56.880 whatever your view

01:04:57.300 on immigration is

01:04:58.420 we're not getting

01:04:59.860 what the people

01:05:00.440 voted for

01:05:01.040 of course

01:05:01.580 that's to me

01:05:02.840 the biggest problem

01:05:03.800 and then of course

01:05:04.560 the other stuff

01:05:05.200 it's a separate issue

01:05:06.320 so this is from Karen

01:05:09.040 and she asks

01:05:10.060 do you think

01:05:10.420 all the trivial

01:05:11.020 social justice

01:05:11.980 warrior shouting

01:05:12.720 and bullying

01:05:13.160 is being used

01:05:14.140 to distract us

01:05:14.920 from the real problems

01:05:15.920 in the world

01:05:16.320 that really matter

01:05:17.080 you know

01:05:17.840 keep the privileged

01:05:18.880 in the west

01:05:19.380 dumb and numb

01:05:20.040 and therefore

01:05:20.780 control the masses

01:05:21.680 and take our

01:05:22.740 freedoms away

01:05:23.480 well I think

01:05:24.580 I don't know

01:05:25.220 whether there is

01:05:25.780 like a global

01:05:26.400 conspiracy

01:05:26.880 to make that happen

01:05:27.800 but that is

01:05:28.300 definitely the

01:05:28.840 consequence for sure

01:05:29.740 that is absolutely

01:05:30.720 what's happening

01:05:31.320 Karen

01:05:31.660 we are distracted

01:05:32.800 we are divided

01:05:33.640 and you know

01:05:34.740 we're missing

01:05:35.200 some important

01:05:35.800 things that are

01:05:36.340 going on

01:05:36.720 in the world

01:05:37.080 right now

01:05:37.500 we are

01:05:38.100 we're missing

01:05:38.580 lots and lots

01:05:39.540 of important things

01:05:40.420 so we've just

01:05:41.280 got another one

01:05:42.840 sent through

01:05:43.320 so here we go

01:05:44.820 there was about

01:05:45.360 five or six

01:05:46.060 mates

01:05:46.320 yeah

01:05:46.640 we've cracked

01:05:47.440 through a lot

01:05:47.860 of them

01:05:48.080 and some of them

01:05:49.540 there was

01:05:50.100 there was just

01:05:50.660 troll

01:05:53.480 a few others

01:05:54.100 yeah ban him

01:05:54.740 ban him

01:05:55.440 ban him

01:05:55.960 so this is from

01:05:56.780 Liam Poulos

01:05:57.800 or Pools

01:05:58.700 he says

01:05:59.560 do you think

01:06:00.340 you foreigned up

01:06:01.160 his name

01:06:01.500 yeah Poulos

01:06:02.360 hey Liam Poulos

01:06:03.920 yeah

01:06:04.200 do you think

01:06:09.000 there is a

01:06:09.400 correlation

01:06:09.840 between increasing

01:06:10.680 multiculturalism

01:06:11.720 and increasing

01:06:12.580 polarisation

01:06:13.440 in a country

01:06:14.280 can the

01:06:15.160 American

01:06:15.660 constitution

01:06:16.560 cater

01:06:17.420 for more

01:06:18.080 for modern

01:06:19.020 radical

01:06:19.740 ideas

01:06:20.720 well two

01:06:22.460 separate questions

01:06:23.120 I don't want

01:06:23.580 to comment

01:06:23.880 about the

01:06:24.300 American

01:06:24.540 constitution

01:06:25.020 because it's

01:06:25.680 very much

01:06:26.180 out of my

01:06:26.720 wheelhouse

01:06:27.460 but in terms

01:06:27.920 of multiculturalism

01:06:28.800 I always try

01:06:30.300 to make this

01:06:30.780 and this is

01:06:31.240 a really important

01:06:31.820 distinction

01:06:32.240 Francis

01:06:32.680 between a

01:06:33.700 multi-ethnic

01:06:34.600 society

01:06:35.160 a society

01:06:35.780 in which

01:06:36.160 there are

01:06:36.460 many people

01:06:36.980 of different

01:06:37.400 ethnicities

01:06:38.140 and a

01:06:38.840 multicultural

01:06:39.480 society

01:06:40.260 a culture

01:06:41.240 a society

01:06:42.020 in which

01:06:42.540 people are

01:06:43.340 encouraged

01:06:43.940 to retain

01:06:44.760 the culture

01:06:45.400 which they

01:06:45.880 brought with

01:06:46.480 them from

01:06:46.960 a foreign

01:06:47.540 country

01:06:47.980 a multi-ethnic

01:06:49.740 society

01:06:50.180 can work

01:06:50.760 absolutely fine

01:06:51.660 as long

01:06:52.640 as people

01:06:53.020 have an

01:06:53.400 overarching

01:06:53.940 common

01:06:54.420 identity

01:06:54.900 that they

01:06:55.300 can all

01:06:55.600 unite

01:06:55.860 behind

01:06:56.200 for example

01:06:56.880 we say

01:06:57.320 we're all

01:06:57.700 British

01:06:58.080 we're all

01:06:58.820 American

01:06:59.220 but the

01:07:00.140 moment you

01:07:00.620 start making

01:07:01.460 society

01:07:01.980 multicultural

01:07:02.700 that is to

01:07:03.840 say

01:07:04.160 well look

01:07:04.860 if you've

01:07:05.220 come here

01:07:05.620 from Russia

01:07:06.260 you don't

01:07:07.100 need to

01:07:07.400 become

01:07:07.660 British

01:07:08.000 you don't

01:07:08.740 need to

01:07:09.100 learn the

01:07:10.040 language

01:07:10.340 you don't

01:07:10.660 need to

01:07:10.960 integrate

01:07:11.460 no you

01:07:12.180 live with

01:07:13.120 other Russians

01:07:13.800 in a small

01:07:14.480 ghetto

01:07:14.860 eat Russian

01:07:15.820 food

01:07:16.140 speak Russian

01:07:16.920 don't learn

01:07:17.700 the local

01:07:18.080 language

01:07:18.440 etc.

01:07:18.820 that's a

01:07:20.140 problem

01:07:20.420 and we

01:07:21.260 have pockets

01:07:22.220 in this

01:07:22.660 country

01:07:23.000 as we

01:07:23.400 talked

01:07:23.680 with

01:07:24.080 Ed Hussein

01:07:24.580 about

01:07:24.860 where there

01:07:26.140 are certain

01:07:26.560 communities

01:07:27.180 that have

01:07:28.000 integrated

01:07:28.480 incredibly

01:07:29.140 well

01:07:29.500 and there

01:07:30.300 are certain

01:07:30.700 other

01:07:31.040 communities

01:07:31.520 often coming

01:07:32.140 from the

01:07:32.460 same

01:07:32.620 geographical

01:07:33.120 area

01:07:33.620 who've

01:07:34.620 become a

01:07:35.260 world unto

01:07:35.660 themselves

01:07:36.020 who are

01:07:36.360 insulated

01:07:36.900 who have

01:07:37.520 their backs

01:07:37.920 turned upon

01:07:38.480 the rest

01:07:39.160 of society

01:07:39.780 who practice

01:07:41.080 different

01:07:41.460 customs

01:07:41.880 who want

01:07:42.620 their own

01:07:43.080 legal system

01:07:43.740 we can't

01:07:44.840 have that

01:07:45.420 that is a

01:07:46.060 recipe for

01:07:46.540 disaster

01:07:46.960 completely

01:07:47.760 agree

01:07:48.180 Sven Helga

01:07:52.280 Hachim

01:07:53.040 there's

01:07:55.080 people who

01:07:55.500 are watching

01:07:55.760 this who

01:07:56.040 don't watch

01:07:56.420 Raw

01:07:56.600 just like

01:07:57.080 why are

01:07:57.540 they doing

01:07:57.840 that

01:07:58.080 and he

01:07:59.160 asks

01:07:59.440 I still

01:07:59.920 get blank

01:08:00.440 stares

01:08:00.980 when I

01:08:01.340 use the

01:08:01.780 term

01:08:01.960 the west

01:08:02.520 do you

01:08:03.440 think we

01:08:03.860 will be

01:08:04.060 able to

01:08:04.420 bring it

01:08:04.740 back fully

01:08:05.340 into

01:08:06.020 common

01:08:06.640 usage

01:08:07.360 I think

01:08:10.060 so

01:08:10.320 I haven't

01:08:11.300 encountered

01:08:11.680 that problem

01:08:12.160 particularly

01:08:12.680 but as

01:08:13.600 if you were

01:08:14.000 here at the

01:08:14.380 beginning

01:08:14.600 Sven I

01:08:14.940 made the

01:08:15.280 point that

01:08:15.740 of course

01:08:16.480 the book

01:08:16.740 is called

01:08:17.020 An Immigrant's

01:08:17.560 Love Letter

01:08:17.880 to the

01:08:18.180 West

01:08:18.340 but I

01:08:18.600 was really

01:08:18.940 talking

01:08:19.260 specifically

01:08:19.800 about the

01:08:20.300 Anglosphere

01:08:20.800 because I

01:08:21.140 think it's

01:08:21.540 different in

01:08:22.580 the way that

01:08:23.000 it does

01:08:23.360 things to

01:08:23.880 even the

01:08:24.400 rest of

01:08:24.700 the West

01:08:25.000 we don't

01:08:25.760 want to

01:08:26.020 associate

01:08:26.320 with the

01:08:26.700 French and

01:08:27.040 the Germans

01:08:27.440 absolutely

01:08:28.000 not mate

01:08:28.720 and according

01:08:29.240 to our

01:08:30.460 guest today

01:08:31.600 Peter

01:08:31.920 Zeehan

01:08:32.400 it's not

01:08:33.660 looking good

01:08:34.200 for the

01:08:34.520 Germans

01:08:34.920 you're going

01:08:35.920 to have to

01:08:36.280 watch that

01:08:36.680 episode

01:08:37.160 it is

01:08:37.700 absolutely

01:08:38.220 brilliant

01:08:38.700 bloody

01:08:39.540 skies

01:08:39.920 guys

01:08:40.160 what was

01:08:40.660 wrong

01:08:40.840 with my

01:08:41.080 question

01:08:41.500 he says

01:08:42.600 there was

01:08:42.820 no reference

01:08:43.360 to pegging

01:08:43.820 and anything

01:08:45.920 else

01:08:46.360 was I

01:08:48.520 just can't

01:08:49.100 say it

01:08:49.340 bloody

01:08:49.520 skies

01:08:49.820 so let's

01:08:51.840 see what

01:08:52.400 we have

01:08:52.780 got left

01:08:53.240 I think

01:08:54.060 that has

01:08:54.840 got

01:08:55.260 Anton is

01:08:55.860 that it

01:08:56.100 everything

01:08:56.440 I think

01:08:56.960 that's

01:08:58.160 pretty much

01:08:58.620 everything

01:08:59.060 we have

01:09:00.620 run

01:09:01.280 out

01:09:02.080 of

01:09:02.720 time

01:09:03.480 guys

01:09:04.660 thank you

01:09:05.560 so much

01:09:06.480 for joining

01:09:07.020 in

01:09:07.240 our plan

01:09:08.300 is that

01:09:08.700 we're going

01:09:09.000 to be doing

01:09:09.440 a lot

01:09:10.220 more of

01:09:10.800 these

01:09:11.140 we're going

01:09:12.000 to be

01:09:12.200 constantly

01:09:13.280 I'm going

01:09:13.780 to write

01:09:14.040 a book

01:09:14.300 a month

01:09:14.620 guys

01:09:14.920 exactly

01:09:15.580 we're going

01:09:16.380 to be doing

01:09:16.700 a lot

01:09:16.940 more

01:09:17.160 talking

01:09:17.660 about

01:09:18.020 the state

01:09:18.960 of the

01:09:19.180 world

01:09:19.400 as we

01:09:19.700 see it

01:09:20.100 the

01:09:20.240 challenges

01:09:20.620 that we

01:09:21.580 are all

01:09:22.120 going

01:09:22.580 to face

01:09:23.120 thank you

01:09:23.560 so much

01:09:24.140 for tuning

01:09:24.500 in to

01:09:25.000 this very

01:09:25.420 special episode

01:09:26.280 our episodes

01:09:27.380 normally go

01:09:28.020 out on

01:09:28.320 Wednesday

01:09:28.700 or Sunday

01:09:29.540 that's great

01:09:29.960 do we want

01:09:30.380 them to buy

01:09:30.760 the book

01:09:31.060 though

01:09:31.300 yes

01:09:31.780 I'm going

01:09:32.440 to get

01:09:32.680 to that

01:09:33.020 in a second

01:09:33.540 well maybe

01:09:34.080 they've all

01:09:35.000 switched off

01:09:35.560 by now

01:09:35.920 tell them

01:09:36.320 to buy

01:09:36.560 the fucking

01:09:36.980 book

01:09:37.320 buy the

01:09:37.840 book

01:09:38.140 the link

01:09:38.680 is in

01:09:39.000 the comments

01:09:39.600 it is

01:09:40.480 a great

01:09:41.400 read

01:09:41.780 an

01:09:42.060 immigrant

01:09:42.380 a love

01:09:42.960 letter

01:09:43.200 to the

01:09:43.600 west

01:09:43.880 it's a

01:09:44.920 brilliant

01:09:45.280 brilliant

01:09:45.640 book

01:09:45.960 I have

01:09:46.420 read it

01:09:46.760 we have

01:09:47.240 all read

01:09:47.740 it

01:09:47.900 we urge

01:09:48.620 you to

01:09:48.900 buy

01:09:49.100 it

01:09:49.260 Dougie

01:09:49.780 loved

01:09:51.600 it

01:09:51.800 Douglas

01:09:52.200 Murray

01:09:52.520 he absolutely

01:09:53.380 loved it

01:09:53.880 and the

01:09:54.220 Sunday

01:09:54.420 Times

01:09:54.780 and the

01:09:55.180 Sunday

01:09:55.420 Times

01:09:55.900 and Peter

01:09:56.740 Boghossian

01:09:57.220 and Peter

01:09:57.740 Boghossian

01:09:58.320 and my mum

01:09:59.680 and your mum

01:10:00.360 and your dad

01:10:01.440 actually neither of them

01:10:02.540 particularly read it

01:10:03.400 or liked it

01:10:04.060 but yes

01:10:05.820 so make sure to buy it

01:10:07.180 thank you so much

01:10:08.640 for watching us

01:10:09.540 episodes always go out

01:10:11.020 Wednesday

01:10:11.320 and Sunday

01:10:12.460 7pm UK time

01:10:13.820 it's also available

01:10:17.000 as a podcast

01:10:17.900 thank you for

01:10:19.320 contributing

01:10:19.840 thank you for

01:10:20.460 watching

01:10:20.800 and thank you

01:10:21.620 if you're

01:10:21.860 listening

01:10:22.080 take care

01:10:22.940 and we'll

01:10:23.440 see you soon

01:10:24.040 we know you've

01:10:33.340 been waiting

01:10:33.860 and your full

01:10:34.940 great outdoors

01:10:35.620 comedy festival

01:10:36.420 lineup is here

01:10:37.760 on September 11th

01:10:39.200 through 13th

01:10:39.940 at Arendale Park

01:10:40.940 comedy superstars

01:10:42.340 John Mulaney

01:10:43.120 with Nick Kroll

01:10:43.940 Mike Berbiglia

01:10:44.900 and Fred Armisen

01:10:46.060 Adam Ray

01:10:46.800 as Dr. Phil

01:10:47.560 Live

01:10:47.920 with Miss Pat

01:10:48.700 and TJ Miller

01:10:49.720 Hassan Minhaj

01:10:50.960 and Ronnie Chang

01:10:51.700 with Michael Costa

01:10:52.640 and more

01:10:53.120 hit the stage

01:10:53.940 three nights

01:10:54.960 five shows

01:10:56.120 huge laughs

01:10:57.180 September 11th

01:10:58.280 through 13th

01:10:59.040 buy tickets now

01:11:00.160 at greatoutdoorscomedyfestival.com

TRIGGERnometry - July 13, 2022

An Immigrant's Love Letter to the West ｜ Book Launch ＊Live Recording＊

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