Andrew Doyle & TRIGGERnometry DESTROY 2022
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 11 minutes
Words per Minute
202.0298
Summary
In our final year-end interview of 2019, Francis and Constantine are joined by writer, comedian and podcaster Andrew Doyle to review the past year and look forward to 2020. They discuss the year that was, and what they are looking forward to in 2020.
Transcript
00:00:00.260
Let's be honest, Andrew, it has been a great year for stupid people.
00:00:08.860
Well, they have a lot of power, actually, as it turns out.
00:00:11.620
Every media outlet in this country, almost, particularly the BBC,
00:00:15.940
covered it like it was a fucking terrorist attack.
00:00:21.980
This kind of legislation will result in some sexual assaults.
00:00:26.220
So then it comes down to, well, how many sexual assaults are the SNP prepared to accept as collateral?
00:00:31.760
You can barely now see the rainbow, because there's so much shit on the flag, right?
00:00:37.240
And obviously people are saying, well, actually, looking at that now, this looks kind of homophobic.
00:00:44.600
Yeah, it's election interference by the FBI, of course.
00:00:47.700
It's got to be the first sign of something creeping into authoritarianism
00:00:51.320
when they start changing definitions and forcing you to accept their definitions.
00:00:54.740
And that's the thing we've got to be really wary of.
00:00:56.760
Why is she constantly in the press this year, all the time?
00:01:00.680
But that's also why people are obsessed with Meghan Markle,
00:01:03.160
because she is an actual princess complaining about being oppressed.
00:01:09.440
I've always said and argued that the culture war is a key issue because it wins and loses elections.
00:01:17.160
I mean, the culture war has escalated in this country since 2012, roughly.
00:01:20.460
And the Tories have been in charge all of that time.
00:01:28.460
That's the machinery of government right there.
00:01:47.020
And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.
00:01:52.000
I'm delighted to say for our final year-end interview is the one, the only,
00:01:57.780
returning for the 170th time to the show is the satirist, writer, author, Andrew Doyle.
00:02:05.880
But we've got to do this Christmas special review.
00:02:09.120
Because let's be honest, Andrew, it has been a great year for stupid people.
00:02:23.740
I mean, I don't want to talk about the more recent stuff right now,
00:02:28.520
and we'll talk about Jeremy Clarkson and all of that more recent stuff.
00:02:31.740
But I think we sometimes forget towards the end of the year
00:02:35.320
how much crazy shit happened earlier in the year.
00:02:40.120
I mean, this has been a big year for the whole Mermaids trans debate,
00:02:46.600
People starting to wake up to the problems that, you know,
00:02:49.560
all of a sudden people have realised there's an NHS-funded clinic in London
00:02:56.560
And suddenly people realise that's not such a great thing.
00:03:01.960
This all sort of came about with Mermaids as well,
00:03:04.200
taking on LGB Alliance in court, trying to strip them of their charity status,
00:03:10.900
because suddenly people, it's drawn attention to the fact that one of their trustees
00:03:16.760
and the CEO of Mermaids took her son to be castrated in Thailand at the age of 16,
00:03:22.880
and they've been sending breast binders to children without their parents' consent.
00:03:26.360
And of course, if you are that dodgy as an organisation,
00:03:29.080
maybe don't go after another charity and draw that much attention to yourself.
00:03:37.140
But you mentioned, I mean, charities and then going after people
00:03:41.460
But Ngozi Fulani, interestingly, her charity is now being looked into.
00:03:54.420
So they're going after her charity now as well.
00:03:55.840
It turns out there's lots of dodgy stuff there.
00:04:02.720
We don't have the same legal team as they do at GB News.
00:04:05.860
But actually, I mean, for people who may not have followed that story,
00:04:08.860
because obviously we've got a lot of people from abroad,
00:04:14.520
to how utterly deranged our conversation about race in this country has become.
00:04:20.440
it was a story about a woman who went to an event at the palace
00:04:33.040
And she was asked repeatedly where she's really from.
00:04:36.440
Not necessarily the best thing to ask somebody.
00:04:40.200
And every media outlet in this country, almost,
00:04:44.300
particularly the BBC, covered it like it was a fucking terrorist attack.
00:04:52.440
But there's also some very important details in that story,
00:04:54.620
which is that the woman who kept asking her where she's from was 83 years old.
00:04:58.460
So she might have different ideas or maybe less heightened awareness of intersectional priorities, right?
00:05:05.740
But also she was an 83-year-old royal aide who's been like best friend of the Queen.
00:05:09.460
She's been involved with the royal family for decades.
00:05:11.860
And part of her job, if you turn up at the palace as a guest,
00:05:15.440
part of the aide's job is to try and get information out of you about you and your background
00:05:19.700
so that that information can be fed to whichever royal you're meeting
00:05:27.400
I actually need to know because I've got to pass this information.
00:05:31.080
It wasn't, oh, I don't believe you because you're black.
00:05:35.220
That's a really ungenerous assumption to make that that's what she was talking about.
00:05:38.860
Also, Ngozi Folani, which, as we said, real name Marlene,
00:05:42.740
changed her name to this faux African name and dressed in full traditional African garb, right?
00:05:53.920
Yeah, she had earrings with the shape of Africa in there.
00:05:55.860
So if you completely say that that's your identity and she's free to identify however she wants
00:06:00.200
and she identifies clearly as African, she connects with the country, she dresses as the country.
00:06:08.860
And, you know, then someone saying where are you from and, you know, that's a reasonable question, I think.
00:06:19.200
I think it is rude, right, if you ask someone where they're from and they tell you
00:06:24.820
That is kind of rude, but I don't think that's what was happening here.
00:06:28.580
Didn't Ngozi describe it as sustained racist abuse?
00:06:38.200
It's like you get a lot of points, don't you, for having trauma.
00:06:41.800
And then she was so traumatised she went back to educate the members of staff about racial awareness.
00:06:50.900
Why not just have this conversation anyway face to face?
00:06:53.760
Why not just, why did she have to put a transcript on Twitter and try and get this person shamed?
00:06:59.040
And then she did a massive media tour as well, didn't she, France?
00:07:01.480
She went on a massive media tour saying how she didn't want to draw too much attention to the incident.
00:07:06.680
Which is what you do when you don't want to draw too much attention.
00:07:09.920
I mean, I've had gauche conversations with people regarding sexuality, people making assumptions about me and stuff.
00:07:15.520
I don't put it all on Twitter and try and get points, but maybe I should.
00:07:18.720
And thank you for that, Andrew, because I have apologised, mate.
00:07:22.560
It made me feel very uncomfortable, you know, particularly when you said that my actions were against nature.
00:07:32.620
But, you know, as human beings, we're all going to end up in these messy situations sometimes.
00:07:36.720
And you often say something, you put your foot in it.
00:07:39.720
You don't expect someone to be secretly filming, putting it on Twitter.
00:07:42.840
Let me get so much cultural capital out of this as possible.
00:07:45.580
And it also kind of degrades the idea of racism, doesn't it?
00:07:48.700
It sort of suggests that actual racist incidents are on a par with this sort of imaginary scenario.
00:07:56.380
And that's not good for tackling actual racial injustice either.
00:08:02.560
And the thing is as well, there was so much happening in our country.
00:08:08.580
And you're like, public services are falling apart.
00:08:11.980
Yeah, but the media is obsessed with the royal family, of course.
00:08:16.820
And they particularly at the moment are obsessed with the royal family being potentially racist
00:08:20.460
because the whole Meghan Markle thing, which was, of course, another big thing this year.
00:08:23.680
Why is she constantly in the press this year all the time?
00:08:28.960
Look, to be fair, Andrew, I'm going to call you out on this.
00:08:37.780
I think I've spoken about her a couple of times when there's been a big story relating to the Netflix
00:08:44.740
So I'm happy to talk about it, but I don't bang on about Meghan Markle at all.
00:08:48.180
She's, she, I think she, maybe 0.1% of my output is based on Meghan Markle.
00:08:55.180
I do, I do find it quite funny that she keeps getting caught in these incredible lies.
00:09:00.160
Which I just, like, you know, when she said that she got married in secret a couple of days
00:09:04.120
before the wedding and the Archbishop of Canterbury officiated and then the Archbishop said, that's
00:09:09.980
That's such a weird, although, you know, when she said she went to the opening of The
00:09:12.980
Lion King and the South African actor came up to her and said, Meghan, when you married
00:09:17.440
Harry, we were dancing on the streets of Africa, just like when Mandela, when Nelson Mandela
00:09:24.840
And then it turns out that the only South African actor in The Lion King wasn't even
00:09:32.000
So, like, just incredible lies and like that kind of, and that is funny.
00:09:36.380
Like, so it's worth talking about just because she's a fantasist.
00:09:49.740
I think that the reason the palace responded in the manner that they did was because they
00:09:54.480
had spent six months or whatever, however long it is, I don't follow it because I'm
00:09:58.120
not interested in it either, being accused of systemic racism by Harry and Meghan because
00:10:02.940
they asked what colour the baby was going to be or speculated when it appeared.
00:10:14.540
An overheard conversation by some posh people we'll never meet.
00:10:18.760
But also, Andrew, this is the other thing that people don't want to acknowledge.
00:10:22.120
But the reality is, in all mixed families, that is what people talk about.
00:10:27.840
Like, when my son was about to be, when my wife and I talked, was he going to be like
00:10:38.220
Like, wondering what colour your offspring or grandchildren might be is the most natural
00:10:45.100
Is it akin to saying, or will it have blue eyes or brown eyes?
00:10:47.960
Or, you know, will it have webbed feet, that kind of thing?
00:10:53.000
But like Francis, you know, his mum is very dark.
00:11:07.180
I would, you know, I can burn at even the slightest contact with the sun.
00:11:11.860
But when you come from a mixed background, that's what people do.
00:11:16.200
Like, when I went back to Venezuela, people always used to say to me, why are you so white?
00:11:26.900
But you're going to call them the white devils.
00:11:31.560
Well, yeah, I don't have this, because everyone in my family is quite pasty.
00:11:36.920
Actually, they called me the white monkey, Mono Blanco.
00:11:39.820
But saying that, I do have gingers in the family.
00:11:42.840
So if I were to have a child, I would probably speculate about whether it would, we would have to get rid of it, you know?
00:11:59.960
But, Andrew, there has been a lot of other stuff going on as well.
00:12:03.160
And obviously, we're joking about all this stuff.
00:12:05.840
But the trans issue, for some reason, I mean, you talk about,
00:12:09.660
you know, I feel we've made a lot of progress in this country this year, on the one hand.
00:12:13.660
On the other hand, the SNP, literally, as we sit here right now, they've just pushed through a bill in Scotland.
00:12:23.640
So the SNP have been, for a long time, pushing the idea of gender reform, so that people can self-ID as the gender that they choose without.
00:12:31.800
Now, so typically, you would have to live a period of time.
00:12:34.720
If you are a transsexual person, if you're someone who, for whatever reason, needs to have surgery or to present as the opposite sex, there's protocol in place to do that so that, you know, you can have medical guidance, etc.
00:12:47.580
But now they're saying, I think that's three months, so you can just, after three months, just declare it effectively.
00:12:53.380
And there are lots of feminists, you must have seen the protests outside Holyrood.
00:12:56.200
And lots of feminists have been saying, look, the thing about implementing self-ID laws is it leaves loopholes open to be exploited by people who may have nefarious agendas.
00:13:06.060
What they're not saying is that trans people are predators or trans people have a propensity for being predatory.
00:13:14.040
What they're saying is that if you are a sexual predator, you'll use any loophole that you can.
00:13:18.720
And from the history of sexual predators, we know that to be the case.
00:13:21.440
Sexual predators always claim to be something that they're not to get access to victims.
00:13:25.480
I mean, I could cite a million examples of that, just in the litany of serial killers, of people who pretended to be something different than they are to get access to victims.
00:13:35.240
So it really comes down to a question of, do the SNP just not care about women safeguarding?
00:13:41.040
And it would seem that they're willing to sacrifice some women.
00:13:45.120
You know, this kind of legislation will result in some sexual assaults.
00:13:50.300
So then it comes down to, well, how many sexual assaults are the SNP prepared to accept as collateral?
00:13:55.840
And that's really what, that's what the feminists have been arguing.
00:13:58.800
But Nicola Sturgeon has, I mean, she's already said that these arguments have no merit.
00:14:06.620
And now they've actually just railroaded it through and they've just, they've proven it.
00:14:11.360
So it's a, I think it's a problem with the SNP.
00:14:13.640
I mean, the SNP think they're being really progressive on almost every issue.
00:14:17.620
And they're actually an incredibly regressive party in almost every respect.
00:14:21.620
I mean, they push through their hate speech bill, which is one of the most draconian, authoritarian pieces of legislation we've ever seen in the UK,
00:14:30.660
where you can be prosecuted for stuff you say in your own home, where you can be prosecuted for jokes, for, there's a section on the public performance of a play.
00:14:40.180
So we can put on a play and get, if we put on a play of trigonometry of our conversation now has dramatized that.
00:14:49.380
But they could prosecute, if that was at the Edinburgh Frames, they could prosecute that.
00:14:58.140
And so I think the problem is that the SNP have too much power because there's no, the Tories and Labour, they have nothing in Scotland.
00:15:05.440
There's no second party to hold them to account.
00:15:09.460
You know, it's like if, you know, if some powerful figure is left unchecked and is only surrounded by sycophants, you know where that goes.
00:15:18.340
You know, so I don't know what they're going to do about that.
00:15:21.260
I mean, the feminists are saying they're going to keep protesting and keep making their point.
00:15:24.720
But while people just keep dismissing these concerns as anti-trans or hateful, which is just not the case.
00:15:31.540
I'm not saying there aren't hateful anti-trans people out there, but they're not the people who are protesting outside of Holyrood.
00:15:38.040
They're not the people who are saying we have these legitimate concerns.
00:15:41.600
These are just people who are being monstered for trying to make a completely fair point about safeguarding, you know.
00:15:47.060
Yeah. But also as well, you know, the focus and the obsession we now have with LGBTQIA+, whatever it is.
00:15:56.720
We were, it felt like we reached this peak of tolerance where we got to the stage where it was like, I don't care who, you know, I don't care what you do in the privacy of your own home.
00:16:08.460
You know, it doesn't matter. But now it's like, it's almost become a, well, it's literally become a badge of pride.
00:16:14.820
And Qatar was a very good example of this, wasn't it?
00:16:17.900
Yeah, exactly. Did you see the other day the rainbow flag? There's a new addition to the rainbow flag.
00:16:25.380
Well, it's a red umbrella, which is for sex workers' rights.
00:16:28.940
So you have, so obviously we've got the chevrons with the trans colours and the black stripe and the brown stripe for racial inclusivity and the intersex circle.
00:16:37.400
And now you've got the fucking sex worker umbrella there.
00:16:40.460
You can barely now see the rainbow because there's so much shit on the flag, right?
00:16:45.900
And this, and obviously people are saying, well, actually looking at that now, this looks kind of homophobic because you've just crowded a gay pride flag with lots of other symbols.
00:16:57.620
And look, by the way, obviously we're having a lighthearted discussion, but it's something that I've been aware of and I'm sure you are aware of as well, which is among young people, acceptance of LGBT blah, blah, blah is going down.
00:17:11.200
And that's because they're looking at this shit and going, what the fuck is this?
00:17:17.000
Well, now I have, and anyway, racial, what does that have to do with nothing?
00:17:22.240
The whole, the rainbow flag, I mean, I've got a stand up bit about this because the rainbow flag was about unity.
00:17:26.280
It was about, the rainbow symbol meant unity and harmony.
00:17:29.820
It was not a literal representation of the skin colors that are acceptable in the gay community, right?
00:17:35.940
And so the idea that you have to add different racial groups, it's so mental.
00:17:45.840
But it's what you said, like we were at a point where no one cared.
00:17:49.640
No one cared how you identified or who you slept with or whether you wanted to be called he or she or no one.
00:17:57.040
I mean, I don't remember anyone, knowing anyone who ever had a problem with any of that.
00:18:00.580
But now I know a lot of gay people who won't use pronouns that people prefer on a matter of principle.
00:18:11.700
But now they do because now they're being told to use pronouns that are either invented, like toy and toy self or cat and cat gender and she and ze and they as singular.
00:18:23.080
They're not going to start fucking with the language to satisfy someone else's ego, which is effectively what it is.
00:18:30.100
Do you remember that Canadian teacher with the massive boob?
00:18:35.580
I think a lot of people have thought it was a troll.
00:18:44.740
There was an old episode of South Park where Mr. Garrison wants to be able to sue the school for homophobia to make money.
00:18:51.440
So he brings his gimp boyfriend in with like, you know, anal beads or whatever.
00:18:59.660
And of course, the school is all really tolerant and like, oh, this is who you are.
00:19:11.840
So, you know, there is a health and safety issue here because he's got these massive prosthetic breasts that are like distended udders that go even below his waist.
00:19:21.400
And there's even footage of him using an electric saw with these rather cumbersome, pendulous items.
00:19:35.200
And so now they're saying that the kids in the school who are secretly filming or taking pictures, they'll be expelled for doing that.
00:19:45.180
But why not just say we support our teachers, our members of staff, right to identify however they want.
00:20:03.340
And that's the thing that's really happened this year, I think, overall, is the sort of introduction of hypersexualization into the gay rights movement and all the rest of it.
00:20:17.080
Every time I open Twitter, there's some drag queen shaking her ass in front of a five-year-old.
00:20:25.300
So it's a man basically twerking in front of a three-year-old or teaching a three-year-old to twerk for tips.
00:20:36.860
And what it does is it resuscitates this ancient homophobic trope which yoked gay people with paedophiles.
00:20:43.460
And that was something that gay people fought to sort of get away from.
00:20:51.080
And there is some room for nuance here insofar as a drag queen reading a story to a bunch of kids in a library in a non-sexualized way.
00:21:03.440
I think it's weird because drag for me is a sexualized genre.
00:21:06.920
And part of the fun of drag is how edgy it is and how far it pushes the boundaries.
00:21:11.360
If you want to sanitize that, I don't think you're a great drag artist.
00:21:15.440
And so I don't know why you'd want to sanitize your art to do that.
00:21:20.140
But, okay, I can accept that drag performers, they're quite lively.
00:21:25.120
They would be able to do a good job, I think, of a story.
00:21:28.120
But part of the problem is either the stories they choose are basically indoctrination,
00:21:32.380
are basically sort of ideological indoctrination,
00:21:34.540
or they put on a performance that is inappropriately sexual.
00:21:38.440
And in both of those cases, I think, just stop doing that, you know?
00:21:41.660
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00:22:18.120
The only pleasure I get from the locals is when we share an intimate moment
00:22:22.360
as we watch a Japanese tourist get trapped in a tube door.
00:22:33.820
You mean the one where you get phenomenal behind-the-scenes content
00:22:44.420
Jordan Peterson, Brett Weinstein, Bill Burr, Sam Harris, Adam Carolla,
00:22:53.600
Not just that, you can get supporter-only benefits like trigonometry mugs,
00:23:03.160
You also get phenomenal behind-the-scenes footage of our trip to America
00:23:15.040
We're also starting to do monthly giveaways for locals only.
00:23:18.560
The first one will be signed copies of Andrew Doyle's new book.
00:23:22.300
Plus, you get access to an incredible community
00:23:30.800
and most importantly, you get to make new friends.
00:23:34.440
You can support us with as little as $7 or about £5 a month,
00:23:50.160
And also, the word queer is just being used by everybody now.
00:23:56.380
Like, you see, I've seen pictures of celebrity couples
00:24:09.440
It's people identifying themselves into oppressed groups
00:24:12.000
because there's a kind of glamour or sheen around being oppressed.
00:24:27.700
We covered a story on one of our Raw shows a few days ago
00:24:35.060
and she got a job at the BBC due to some kind of diversity scheme.
00:24:44.840
She's the daughter of a multi, multi, multi-millionaire.
00:24:53.840
You're just getting bonus points for being brown or black
00:24:58.660
That's why it's better to be bisexual even if you're just straight
00:25:01.500
or non-binary even if you're just cis or whatever.
00:25:04.900
But that's also why people are obsessed with Meghan Markle
00:25:07.320
because she is an actual princess complaining about being oppressed.
00:25:14.500
It's, you know, whenever the BBC and bodies like that
00:25:20.660
we need a quota for a certain number of racial groups,
00:25:23.800
what mostly happened is posh people of colour got the jobs, right?
00:25:27.620
People who didn't need a leg up, people who weren't oppressed.
00:25:33.320
As you know, we've spoken about this many times.
00:25:35.180
For me, unless you are concerned about class issues,
00:25:41.000
pushing working class people up, social mobility,
00:25:44.520
economic inequality and trying to redress that,
00:25:47.880
I don't think you're left-wing in any meaningful sense.
00:25:56.940
all of this stuff is essentially an upper middle class pursuit.
00:26:00.040
It has got nothing to do with being left-wing at all.
00:26:04.020
because it's concerned with posh people and their interests.
00:26:06.820
Andrew, why is it acceptable for a straight person
00:26:21.860
Well, that exact question was posed by Richard Dawkins this year on Twitter,
00:26:42.340
He even ended the hypothetical with the word discuss.
00:26:46.000
why is it that when a man identifies as a woman,
00:26:58.580
You're very much on a par with Dawkins, I feel, intellectually.
00:27:01.960
And your awards they can take away from you, mate.
00:27:33.180
Look, did you see the thing about the Norwegian interview?
00:27:36.380
There was an interview on Norwegian TV about four or five months ago.
00:27:40.680
An able-bodied man who identifies as a disabled woman in a wheelchair.
00:27:48.120
but identifies as having to have the wheelchair.
00:27:50.900
And they gave him a really sympathetic interview about his truth.
00:27:57.980
You don't need, like, this is really offensive to just roll on in and say,
00:28:02.700
He said, I've always felt that I wanted to be a woman
00:28:05.440
who couldn't feel anything from the waist down.
00:28:15.540
The guy, wasn't there that pedophile who tried to get out of it
00:28:22.160
It's the logical end point of all these bollocks.
00:28:26.340
And look, sitting in that chair only a few days ago was Ollie London.
00:28:45.760
He's just a man who's had a lot of surgery, who wants to sort of, you know, explain to
00:28:50.740
people that he went down the wrong path and they shouldn't follow him.
00:28:53.320
Well, I remember talking to him last year on GB News.
00:29:00.000
And he struck me as just a bit, just a bit mad.
00:29:03.120
Well, I think if you have the shit ton of surgery to try and make yourself Korean,
00:29:09.420
Well, he didn't seem unpleasant, is what I'm saying.
00:29:11.680
He seemed like a nice guy who's a bit posh and mad.
00:29:14.680
And if anyone hasn't seen that interview, they should go and watch it because you just
00:29:17.960
see that, you know, sometimes people, and the thing that he said to us that, see, it's
00:29:23.160
not going to be a great revelation to people watching this because it's obvious, but he
00:29:26.180
said, well, society tells you now you can identify as anything.
00:29:34.900
If you look around, if you spend most of your time on social media, if you're a young
00:29:38.580
person who maybe doesn't have a huge amount of experience with the real world, you haven't
00:29:43.800
had the opportunity to see yourself make mistakes and go, well, sometimes you believe things
00:29:49.960
You look around and you go, well, why can't I identify as Korean?
00:29:53.300
And actually, and that's the danger of all of the shit is my point.
00:30:01.360
I think Ngozi Filani, being descended from African people, I think she has a right to identify
00:30:11.480
But she, you know, it's like, I was speaking to him, I was in New York the other week and
00:30:14.680
I was speaking to an American guy and he was talking about his Scottish great-grandfather,
00:30:20.220
And although that's a bit alien to us, I think in America, which is a nation of immigrants
00:30:27.220
I think you could, there is an element of personal choice because we're all Mongols from all
00:30:32.000
I think your identity in terms of nationality, that is a bit malleable.
00:30:35.220
I think when it comes to gender, you know, if I genuinely felt that I'm so uncomfortable
00:30:40.620
with being male that I have to present and identify as female, I think that should be
00:30:44.540
I don't have a, I really don't have a problem with that.
00:30:46.800
But when it comes down to denial of complete facts, so for instance, could I say I'm Nigerian?
00:30:55.300
But I don't have, that should be a Christmas special on Free Speech Nation.
00:31:22.240
You see, now that, then that becomes in the realms of satire, of ridiculousness, you know?
00:31:26.960
And I think, and I think, but similarly, that's why people always had a tolerance for people
00:31:32.060
identifying as the opposite sex, because we understood gender dysphoria as a concept, right?
00:31:36.360
But we don't have tolerance for someone identifying as a cat, which some people now are doing.
00:31:42.460
But we don't have tolerance for that, because it's so divorced from reality that at some
00:31:50.280
But even when it comes to trans identification, right, trans people aren't saying they are
00:31:56.580
I know some are, but most trans people know that they're not.
00:32:00.560
And they accept that, and they will make that point.
00:32:02.560
It's about feeling comfortable with the way you present, and that's fine.
00:32:05.420
And so I think there is room for some sort of nuance here.
00:32:09.680
Some of the identification points, racial identification points, it's...
00:32:14.360
And actually, identifying as a different race makes more sense than identifying as a different
00:32:18.200
sex, because there are only two sexes, and no human being has ever changed sex.
00:32:24.660
Like, race, there is a strong argument regarding race as a social construct, which I actually
00:32:30.020
In fact, it's, you know, ever since they sort of decoded our DNA, we realize we're all the
00:32:35.540
Well, you know, there just isn't any tangible difference.
00:32:38.880
So there's more of a case for doing that, and yet that's the thing that's demonized.
00:32:43.660
Well, a lot of this is because of social media.
00:32:47.200
And let's talk about Twitter for a moment, because Twitter has been, in many ways, one
00:32:56.860
It's one of the catalysts behind all this nonsense.
00:32:59.320
But it's been a very interesting year for Twitter, hasn't it, Andrew?
00:33:01.840
Yeah, I mean, it's, I think, thank God for Elon Musk.
00:33:04.460
I think it's really, I'm not saying he's perfect, and, you know, and that he hasn't made some
00:33:13.300
You know, so many people whose accounts have been nuked for no good reason, just for having
00:33:18.340
There's some more I'd like to see back on, like Graham Linehan and people like that.
00:33:21.280
But hopefully, eventually, we'll get to that point.
00:33:24.420
But what Elon Musk was trying to do was say, look, we're going to have all and any opinions
00:33:33.640
I mean, he's going to nuke accounts that break the law.
00:33:37.160
He's already kicked off a lot of accounts that have been child trafficking and peddling
00:33:42.380
Because I don't think illegal activity should be going on on the channel.
00:33:45.480
But I think any speech that should be allowed, even if it's offensive speech, and I think
00:33:52.140
Well, I agree with you that I'm glad that he's taken over.
00:33:54.680
I don't think he's as consistent on these issues as anyone would want.
00:34:03.200
And this is why, you know, people, I've always looked with some skepticism at people who claim
00:34:08.840
to be free speech absolutists, because you may be in theory, but when it comes down to
00:34:13.380
practice, when you have to run a platform like Twitter, you rapidly find out that people
00:34:20.180
And so far as if I were running Twitter, I would say, here's, I don't need a moderation
00:34:27.080
What I would have is, you've got a block button.
00:34:29.740
If you don't want to read something, block the person.
00:34:35.700
Obviously, if there's illegal content, you delete it, because that's illegal yourself.
00:34:40.200
But that's why you need a moderation counsel to decide whether something's illegal or not.
00:34:43.760
Well, the law does that perfectly sufficiently.
00:34:46.920
You need people to implement the law, in other words.
00:34:49.300
But that's not quite the same as a moderation counsel.
00:34:50.980
A moderation counsel is saying, what is acceptable for our platform?
00:34:56.440
I know what you mean, but the internet of the early days, which was free, that's not
00:35:07.820
They're just, they're not going to let you do that, even if you own the company.
00:35:13.240
This is not, I don't have $44 billion to make this happen.
00:35:16.440
Sadly, if you had, it would be a much better world.
00:35:20.720
There's not much cash in it anymore, apparently.
00:35:22.980
But Andrew, let's talk about the Twitter files, because you and I, I think, in this country,
00:35:26.620
have been at the forefront of the people going, this is quite important.
00:35:34.060
We have had, in the last few days, revelations that the FBI had the New York Post, the laptop
00:35:40.800
that was the source of the New York Post story about Hunter Biden.
00:35:44.100
They sat on it, and then they deceived Twitter and likely Facebook into thinking that it was
00:35:53.560
Yeah, it's election interference by the FBI, of course.
00:35:58.120
The BBC, The Times, even The Telegraph, I mean, The Guardian, obviously haven't covered
00:36:04.560
And this isn't to say, by the way, that they don't think Twitter is important, because
00:36:13.940
They won't tell the public, the reading public, anything about that.
00:36:17.800
And I literally feel myself becoming radicalized on a daily basis.
00:36:21.380
There's another bit of revelation that is not being covered.
00:36:25.900
I mean, and I have to say, GB News has covered it.
00:36:32.860
Because I, and I've been particularly, I share your view.
00:36:36.860
I've been completely, I don't understand why this isn't front page news everywhere, right?
00:36:43.960
Look, the fact, and the way journalists have been saying things like, oh, this is a nothing
00:36:47.120
burger, which is a phrase I hadn't heard before, and I hate it.
00:36:52.940
Why are you doing PR for the world's richest man?
00:36:56.780
It's like they're all robots saying the same things.
00:37:00.900
But the idea that you wouldn't cover this, no matter what your political view, I don't
00:37:05.340
Like, why, why wouldn't you be interested that?
00:37:07.500
And they say things like, why do you care so much about Hunter Biden, about Hunter Biden's
00:37:18.300
I care about the fact that politicians and the social media tech giant colluded to suppress
00:37:25.180
They got to decide what the public should read.
00:37:28.200
And that's what I care about in the run up to an election about a story that was potentially
00:37:34.660
I couldn't give a damn about the substance of the story.
00:37:39.820
And, you know, the other stuff that the Twitter files, you know, the fact that they knew,
00:37:44.600
the executives knew they had no grounds for suppressing this story.
00:37:49.960
They effectively were saying, how can we get away with it?
00:37:53.560
They knew that they had no grounds to ban Trump from the platform.
00:37:57.360
And arguably, in some way, I mean, obviously, the Hunter Biden thing is big in terms of
00:38:02.860
But I think as a structural issue, shadow banning people like Jay Bhattacharya.
00:38:08.360
You are hiding things from the public because you've decided to put your thumb on the scales.
00:38:13.820
And the thing is, you don't have the expertise.
00:38:20.480
So the idea that suddenly a few 20-something, you know, Gen Zs at Twitter are world-leading
00:38:32.180
They sort of prevented his tweets from being amplified.
00:38:39.920
We have a video that we did with Peter Hitchens early in the lockdown, which we have direct
00:38:45.400
evidence was being shadow banned by YouTube and Google.
00:38:48.220
You could not find it on Google and you could not find it in the search on YouTube.
00:38:54.320
Isn't it interesting that these journalists and all these people for years were saying,
00:39:00.220
I had a lot of people saying to me, well, this isn't true.
00:39:08.580
The evidence is absolutely plain in black and white.
00:39:11.080
And they're just, so they're just going to ignore it.
00:39:16.180
The same people who said it's not happening are now saying, well, we knew this.
00:39:19.200
Well, either they were lying then or they're lying now.
00:39:21.700
Like for me, if I put my neck out there and said, there's no evidence for that.
00:39:33.440
Also, as you say, this thing about the media ignoring it, the BBC covering it,
00:39:36.800
not one iota, is absolutely unforgivable and shocking.
00:39:40.540
They are in dereliction of their journalistic duty there, quite clearly.
00:39:43.780
I mean, this is a huge story no matter which way you sit politically.
00:39:47.400
It would be just as big if the tables were turned, if it were the case that it were,
00:39:51.400
you know, I mean, look, Trump's team were trying to get tweets censored, right?
00:39:55.540
The document, they just weren't doing it because they hated Trump, right?
00:40:02.140
It's a big story that the Democrats were doing it because they actually got those things
00:40:08.640
But I also care, Trump's team had no right to be trying to get tweets deleted.
00:40:13.680
And if the tables were turned entirely, and it was mostly the Republicans who had been
00:40:17.000
doing this, I'd be making the same noise about it.
00:40:21.480
Well, think about this, Andrew Francis, I'll just finish this and let you go for it.
00:40:26.680
The crucial story that would make your journalistic career as a left-wing journalist 20 years ago
00:40:33.400
would be exposing collusion between government and the FBI.
00:40:41.380
Exposing the establishment corruption between politicians and the intelligence people
00:40:49.860
That's the left-wing journalistic natural target, isn't it?
00:40:53.520
The collusion between big corporates, big government and big intelligence.
00:41:01.960
Which goes back to what I was saying earlier about how this is not a left-wing movement.
00:41:05.760
So this is not the same as Occupy Wall Street or anything like that.
00:41:09.740
The fact that self-declared leftists are in bed with the corporate and political class
00:41:18.060
And we should stop calling them left-wing, as far as I can see.
00:41:20.940
They can carry on doing that if they want, but they're not.
00:41:22.900
We had an interview with Sam Harris, which went viral,
00:41:25.700
in which he made a number of outrageous statements.
00:41:28.800
But basically, his argument was that he didn't care because the ends justify the means.
00:41:33.440
This isn't this, but just writ large, amongst our entire media, political class, etc.
00:41:41.040
It's this idea that you will excuse any kind of poor behaviour as long as it's from your own tribe.
00:41:50.040
We don't have a tribe, and that's the way to be, I think.
00:41:54.380
Because otherwise, if you align yourself with one way of thinking, one ideology, one group,
00:41:58.640
it means you are literally outsourcing your thinking to someone else.
00:42:01.760
And you're saying, I will never think for myself again.
00:42:04.320
I mean, you may as well kill yourself at that point.
00:42:06.400
Seriously, what's the point in being alive if you're just going to say,
00:42:11.120
You know, priest, you tell me what to think about the world.
00:42:20.100
I mean, people at Ivy League schools can be really stupid.
00:42:24.080
And particularly now that so many higher education institutions are effectively
00:42:29.460
and just attempting to train people to think a certain way,
00:42:33.840
Just as the activists aren't really left-wing anymore,
00:42:36.940
They're only universities in name, as far as I can see.
00:42:39.800
And another interesting point about the entire story was,
00:42:42.860
a lot of the time, Jack Dorsey didn't even know it was going on.
00:42:47.020
Whether that was deliberate, by the way, we don't know.
00:42:51.700
He may have put himself in that position so that he could go to Congress,
00:42:54.980
because he's quite possibly lied to Congress under oath.
00:42:59.780
It's quite possible that that is what happened.
00:43:01.900
Now, it may be the case that he had plausible deniability about knowing.
00:43:06.660
Because he said to Congress they don't shadow ban people.
00:43:10.920
But the way around that is that they didn't call it shadow banning.
00:43:15.200
Which is, you know, which is, I mean, I made the point on my show,
00:43:18.360
you know, this was like when the CIA used to do enhanced interrogation.
00:43:22.120
Which means they could say, we've never tortured anyone.
00:43:24.720
We've just interrogated them in an enhanced way,
00:43:27.840
which means sticking pins in their nails or whatever.
00:43:33.360
And, you know, just this is something that authoritarians always do.
00:43:38.040
They've just changed the words to describe the horrible things they're doing.
00:43:41.320
You know, it's like an example I've given before was,
00:43:45.860
there's a bit in one of Salman Rushdie's essays
00:43:48.340
where he talks about watching a general in the Vietnam War
00:43:51.900
talking about, we have achieved 100% mortality response.
00:43:57.000
What he means by that is we've killed everyone.
00:43:59.060
And just by sanitizing it and saying this chilling phrase
00:44:05.240
and this is the core belief of all of these identitarian activists,
00:44:08.120
that if we could just change the way that the words
00:44:12.780
it means we can make anything palatable, right?
00:44:18.100
a therapist talking to a child who might be confused about their gender,
00:44:21.780
suddenly you call that trans-conversion therapy,
00:44:24.620
and suddenly it becomes an evil, horrible thing that you mustn't do.
00:44:27.320
Whereas actually it's a moral good that you were trying to do.
00:44:30.940
So moral goods become evil and vice versa, right?
00:44:43.640
And that's the thing we've got to be really wary of.
00:44:44.900
So visibility filtering, no, it's shadow banning.
00:44:48.040
And they knew what we all meant by shadow banning
00:44:50.880
because they want to use the phrase in the same way.
00:44:56.080
It might end up, as you say, with criminal charges.
00:44:59.200
But I mean, even Elon Musk said Twitter is a crime scene.
00:45:03.740
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00:45:07.360
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00:45:11.540
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00:45:16.760
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00:45:19.460
whether it be cancel culture, de-platform attacks,
00:45:42.700
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00:45:46.580
All you've got to do is go to easydns.com forward slash triggered.
00:46:11.540
And I think this year that was not the only incident with him being...
00:46:19.800
And the thing that I found particularly shocking
00:46:24.980
it was a British MP who was stabbed to death by a jihadi,
00:46:34.060
And they used the murder to promote their own ideological agenda.
00:46:39.220
They were all saying we need to clamp down on...
00:46:44.420
Why don't we just clamp down on jihadi stabbing people?
00:46:47.520
Well, because that would be to address the actual issue.
00:46:50.780
There was no evidence to suggest that anything to do with this crime
00:46:57.580
It's just MPs didn't like being insulted online,
00:47:00.040
and they used this, they were prepared to use this as to hook on to...
00:47:18.160
Well, it's the grooming gang situation all over again.
00:47:20.160
You expose yourself to the accusation of racism.
00:47:25.620
because, of course, some of the most obvious victims
00:47:41.500
And, you know, who's that idiot at the independence?
00:47:47.860
And he wrote many years ago about how he would burn a copy
00:48:00.400
And why wasn't there just universal condemnation?
00:48:03.560
This happened because he wrote a book, you know?
00:48:09.260
And I think it's because we failed at the time.
00:48:18.300
There were debates on TV, people sort of saying...
00:48:34.720
if you write a book insulting someone's religion,
00:48:39.960
I mean, you did grow up in Northern Ireland, actually.
00:49:14.400
is because we failed from 1988 right through to now.
00:49:25.060
the media should have put those pictures everywhere.
00:49:31.760
It's something I get particularly wound up about
00:50:42.280
between ultra-conservative religious extremists
00:51:03.980
that this has some kind of historical resonance.