Andrew Schulz - Comedy, the American Dream and Whores
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 34 minutes
Words per Minute
198.76814
Summary
In this episode of Trigonometry, the guys discuss the post-Trump era, the rise and fall of the alt-right, and the new normal that we find ourselves living in. They also discuss a new kind of comedy special, "Wokeness," and what it means to be transphobic.
Transcript
00:00:00.800
So now we're having these, like, logical arguments with people who are never, like, reasoned into their position.
00:00:09.100
Like, that's why, like, I don't believe that Ben Shapiro's actually married.
00:00:14.240
Like, how could you go, like, with facts don't care about your feelings and also be married?
00:00:21.260
Every American, when they're born, believes they will be a millionaire.
00:00:23.660
And some are starting to believe that that's not a possibility.
00:00:30.000
I'm pro your body, do it what you want with it.
00:00:36.120
We're not going to, like, thank you at the Oscars or whatever.
00:00:45.840
You said that with a focus and dedication and seriousness.
00:00:50.380
Well, listen, it's an interesting cultural moment.
00:00:55.220
A lot of things have changed in a short period of time.
00:00:58.880
Well, I think, first of all, we watched your special.
00:01:17.460
We were watching cum jokes at 8 o'clock this morning, Andrew.
00:01:30.220
But so someone who watched your special now would be like, wokeness never happened because
00:01:34.880
there's like retards and there's f***ing, I'm just trying to think, everything under
00:01:42.580
Most of the response, I don't see anybody offended by it.
00:01:48.500
So no one's getting canceled for this stuff anymore.
00:01:51.920
I would say specifically with this special that it's not exactly gratuitous.
00:01:57.060
And because of the story specifically, I'm not like trying to like plug it, but because
00:02:01.840
the story is this like real human story, I think you get a little bit more leeway when
00:02:06.640
you're just out there going, hey, here's my craziest trans joke.
00:02:12.580
Like then I think you start to make people feel potentially a little uncomfortable.
00:02:17.080
When the jokes seem rooted in something real, like I've always said this, even with like
00:02:21.140
a sex joke, like if there's a, a sex joke is not a sex joke if it's rooted in like a
00:02:26.720
But if you're just like, hey, f***ing vagina is something, now all of a sudden the old
00:02:31.280
woman in the audience is like, I feel a little uncomfortable.
00:02:33.560
If you're telling this story of this thing that happened and a vagina happens to be included
00:02:39.680
So I think because of the nature of like the vulnerability in the story, like nobody gets made
00:02:46.480
So it's very hard for somebody to like see it, hear a joke about like one of these specifically,
00:02:51.260
you know, ostracized groups and be like, man, I had it hard in that hour.
00:02:55.120
I think the Staten Island people had it very hard in that hour.
00:03:05.460
And you go, oh, this is a whole different experience, right?
00:03:08.200
So what do you make of the kind of post-Trump effect and culturally what's happening at
00:03:15.020
I'm trying to think like, what is the post-Trump?
00:03:16.840
Like, I'm trying to kind of dial in what you're getting at.
00:03:22.680
Because I would say that that preceded Trump's win.
00:03:25.960
I just feel like, you know, Elon opened it up and you buy a Ferrari and you see how fast
00:03:32.920
It's like everybody, you get a new car, you need to go, okay, how fast does this fucking car
00:03:37.120
So when they say, you could say whatever you want, people are like, all right, let's
00:03:46.900
Like, he doesn't seem like people are getting kicked off.
00:03:49.640
So I think people are going through that experience where they have the new car and eventually
00:03:54.800
you go, I don't really need to drive the car as fast as the car goes.
00:03:58.820
I just need to kind of like operate with some comfort in this car.
00:04:02.080
And I think that's what we'll eventually get back to.
00:04:04.240
But you have to have the patience to let that pendulum swing back.
00:04:10.400
So like if this was a publicly traded company, the shareholders would start to go, what the
00:04:15.460
The stock price is dipped, you know, 70% or whatever the f*** it dipped.
00:04:26.020
Get somebody else in that's going to make sure the stock goes up.
00:04:29.460
Because it's privately owned, we can kind of thug it out for, let's say, next few years,
00:04:37.960
It's interesting that you say that because you're saying the pendulum swung and it hopefully
00:04:45.180
The pendulum hasn't been in the center, Andrew, for a very long time.
00:04:50.080
And now we were in the center for a little bit.
00:04:52.020
And I'm like, well, you know, you know that the boat that you used to go on in the fair
00:04:55.260
ground when you go up and that kind of feels like life now, doesn't it?
00:04:58.360
Yeah, but if you notice that I'm going to make this statement with, like, zero knowledge
00:05:03.900
of physics, but I would presume that that boat or that ride that we're talking about
00:05:08.980
spends more time on the edges than it does in the middle, right?
00:05:15.400
It slows down as it gets to the top and it passes back slow as it starts to gain momentum
00:05:22.280
And the smallest amount of time it spends is at this point right here because it's at
00:05:26.000
peak speed before it starts slowing down again.
00:05:28.360
If there's some scientists out there that is going, you know what the fuck you're talking
00:05:36.840
And then now you're going to see a lot of time on the right and the right's going to
00:05:41.160
And they're going to say crazy fucking shit and be just as, like, offended and concerned
00:05:46.460
Like, you already see that, like, the protectionist behavior about, like, their heroes.
00:05:56.680
If you criticize Elon in any other in any way, there are people that, like, knee jerk
00:06:05.200
And they do the exact same thing that maybe they were criticizing the left of doing for
00:06:17.760
It's like whatever you believe, you see, you know, if you're somebody who is very for,
00:06:24.720
you know, free speech and you like jokes and you're not a big, like, identity politics guy,
00:06:31.140
you'll watch this show and you'd be like, you know, those two guys are the truth.
00:06:36.200
Thank God they're, like, protecting free speech.
00:06:38.900
And if you're somebody who's the opposite of that, you'll watch this show and you're
00:06:41.280
like, those guys are Nazis and they're assholes and how dare they push this kind of rhetoric
00:06:50.960
So it's very difficult to, like, convince somebody to feel something different.
00:06:58.420
Like, I didn't know that that's how our brains work, but now it makes perfect sense.
00:07:07.100
So now we're having these, like, logical arguments with people who were never, like, reasoned
00:07:15.380
Like, seriously, honestly, going to therapy with my wife has taught me everything about,
00:07:22.140
like, communicating with people on the internet.
00:07:24.220
But when they feel something, like, if you and you guys are married, you guys have, okay,
00:07:34.440
So it's like, your wife, you do something, pisses off your wife, right?
00:07:38.640
Now, is the smartest thing to do to, like, logically explain to her why she shouldn't be pissed off?
00:07:47.880
I hear these data points that show why you shouldn't be angry.
00:07:53.280
You're saying she never goes, oh, you're right, that data does make me less angry.
00:07:56.720
No, I've never heard a woman say the words you were right in my entire life.
00:08:00.120
That's why, like, I don't believe that Ben Shapiro's actually married.
00:08:04.600
Like, how could you go, like, facts don't care about your feelings and also be married?
00:08:08.740
Like, you would know that feelings don't care about facts.
00:08:12.300
And you would know that's what motivates human interaction constantly, right?
00:08:15.540
So what we should be doing online is meeting people where they are emotionally, satisfying that feeling, and then distributing some facts.
00:08:30.740
Because what we are in now is a boat is going up this way.
00:08:34.060
And what I find really interesting is there's been a lot of comedians, and I understand why.
00:08:42.240
Trump was a better candidate, we can all agree.
00:08:44.080
But now the boat's coming up here, and the right are in power, and they're going to start doing some pretty dodgy things.
00:08:51.480
And those comedians who've come out and been pro-Trump, that leaves you in a pretty difficult position now, doesn't it?
00:08:59.680
Like, if you were, like, this is why I didn't go to the inauguration.
00:09:03.020
I think it was very generous of them to, like, invite me.
00:09:05.560
But I felt like showing up at the inauguration is, like, this endorsement of them.
00:09:15.320
Do I have optimism about the administration more than the last one?
00:09:21.600
When they bring up some tariff shit, like, I don't know if I'm financially illiterate.
00:09:30.060
But I don't really believe in, like, endorsement.
00:09:33.700
And I don't believe in, like, taking a side, per se.
00:09:38.200
Because I think it's hard to do comedy when people, like, know your side.
00:09:43.580
Know what you're already going to say about a topic.
00:09:47.800
Now, that being said, like, I'm sure people will label me in whatever way they want.
00:09:52.840
And there are people who think I'm, like, some right-wing MAGA lunatic.
00:09:55.880
There are people who think that I'm, like, this, like, centrist, you know, try to appease all sides guy.
00:10:02.900
Whatever you already feel, that's what you'll see.
00:10:10.800
It's, like, everyone who tries to have any semblance of balance is always getting accused of selling out.
00:10:15.900
When it's, like, it's quite a normal position not to be entirely convinced that one side has all the right answers.
00:10:24.720
And also, it's, like, the side switched so much.
00:10:27.600
You know, when I was younger, like, Democrats were cool.
00:10:30.700
They were getting their dick sucked in the office.
00:10:33.680
They were, like, supportive of, like, hip-hop music.
00:10:49.760
He's the one saying, say whatever the fuck you want.
00:10:55.240
I just like the dudes that get pussy and say whatever they want.
00:10:58.720
So it's very, you want me to be a Democrat again?
00:11:03.640
But also, the people who are behaving like Democrats as conservatives were Democrats a few years ago.
00:11:11.740
That's what I'm saying, like, the idea that, like, you have this loyalty to the party.
00:11:24.900
In the last, like, five years, eight years, 12 years, whatever you want to say.
00:11:28.380
So maybe I'm just making decisions based on the things that I care about in the moment.
00:11:33.400
And maybe that group is, you know, connecting to me more in this moment.
00:11:39.220
Well, it sounds to me like you've stayed pretty consistent about what you think is important.
00:11:46.580
It's like your point about, you know, people used to shut down people's opinions or jokes or whatever.
00:11:50.900
They used to be Christian conservatives, mostly, really.
00:12:00.280
What young kid is going, yeah, we need to ban rap and rock music?
00:12:07.740
Like, whereas Democrats, dude was, you know, he's like, yo, I smoked it.
00:12:14.820
I said that to my dad or whatever the fuck, right?
00:12:23.760
When he was asked if he, there was like eight of them and they were all, they all went, did
00:12:28.060
And like seven of them went, yeah, but I didn't inhale.
00:12:30.700
And they were like, they went to Obama, did you inhale?
00:12:44.360
Yeah, anytime I'm critical of Democrats right now, it's hoping that they will restore their
00:13:08.780
So, yeah, I just, I hope they pay attention to like what's happening and what the American
00:13:14.800
How did you get into comedy from there, Andrew?
00:13:19.900
I listened to Eddie Murphy's Delirious with my dad at a very young age on cassette.
00:13:25.480
And I just saw my dad dying laughing to Eddie Murphy.
00:13:29.340
And I've probably been chasing that laugh ever since.
00:13:33.660
And then I just became kind of like obsessed with it.
00:13:40.880
They would do like a monthly thing back in the day where they'd send you a new cassette
00:13:47.120
And then I saw The Kings of Comedy, Bernie Mac specifically.
00:13:53.500
And I was like, oh my God, this is the funniest human being ever.
00:14:02.060
And Patrice is just like the highest level I've ever seen it done.
00:14:19.020
That's still the highest level I've ever witnessed in person.
00:14:25.380
Like just straight human connectivity, the conversational nature.
00:14:28.880
But it's like he got you to, he disarmed you in a beautiful way, like very quickly to where
00:14:36.060
you didn't think that this was a comedy show with prepared jokes.
00:14:42.000
So he could, he, the jokes were solid enough for him to stand up there and be like, here's
00:14:50.960
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00:15:16.080
But he was like conversational and like genuinely thinking about his premises as he was talking
00:15:30.840
So now you're disarmed and you're getting amazing jokes.
00:15:39.260
Just, just the observations, the references, also just crowd work, like him interacting with
00:15:48.180
Never ask a question that you don't want to know the answer to.
00:15:51.140
There's a lot of people like, what do you do for a living?
00:15:58.980
And the interesting thing with Patrice was, is that he spent a lot of time struggling
00:16:07.040
Because for reasons that were primarily his own fault.
00:16:20.640
When we had Burr on, it's one of the things you talked about.
00:16:23.220
It was like, he, he was a, he, he was a hard person to deal with, even though Bill loved
00:16:27.900
Oh, I, when you said struggling in the career, I thought you meant like, in terms of like
00:16:32.960
You mean like getting on TV shows and doing that kind of shit?
00:16:35.100
But also, you know, and I've heard this from numerous people, including people who worked
00:16:40.100
Who said, you know, when he turned up and he was in the right mood, brilliant, you're going
00:16:44.980
When Patrice was in a bad mood or someone, you know, you know, kicked a little bit of sand in the metaphorical
00:16:51.840
You know, everyone was going to f***ing know about it.
00:16:56.120
So I've heard stories about that, but I just would never say that about somebody that I
00:17:03.840
I mean, listen, there's a lot of people in this business that are a pain in the ass to
00:17:13.540
Like, there's a lot of people that just annoying to be around and they're unfunny and you're like,
00:17:23.480
And it's, you, you look at what Patrice was doing.
00:17:27.040
You look at the discourse now and as a comedian, you're excited by what's happening.
00:17:32.760
But there's, cause we were talking before you came on a couple of, for a couple of days
00:17:37.200
on and off about, there's also this ugly thing that's happening with American discourse.
00:17:44.460
As someone who looks more than a little bit Jewy, seeing, you know, full blown antisemitism
00:17:52.940
You criticize Israel in this, as in like, this is a real deal.
00:17:56.900
I think you and I, as a people who present as Jewish, have a little bit more sensitivity
00:18:02.380
to the Jew issue than, uh, than the average person per se.
00:18:05.660
Like, obviously you're going to care about it because, you know, you are.
00:18:09.240
You know, I'm, we talked about this before, right?
00:18:19.820
A lot of Jews are like, nah, you're not really Jewish, mate.
00:18:22.700
Um, I, you know, the reason I'll be honest with you, the reason antisemitism concerns
00:18:29.040
It's because it's not usually a sign that things are going in the right direction.
00:18:34.480
It's usually a sign that people are pissed off.
00:18:39.740
You're concerned about antisemitism because it could mean that the economy is not good.
00:18:56.200
What, what I'm saying is, you know what I mean.
00:18:59.020
It's a reflection of a, of the fact that the world's not in a good place.
00:19:03.520
And not, maybe not heading in the right direction.
00:19:09.180
You know, the world will get into places where it's very difficult financially.
00:19:12.520
You know, so what do we do when that kind of happens?
00:19:16.160
Ideally, we don't just scapegoat, you know, the Jews.
00:19:20.140
There's some like really disturbing shit you see online.
00:19:22.460
And it's got, you know, friends of mine that are Jewish, like terrified.
00:19:25.720
Like absolutely terrified because they grow up with a different paranoia than like, say,
00:19:31.940
me or you, or maybe even you, if you didn't grow up with it.
00:19:34.000
Like they grew up with the stories of what had happened.
00:19:36.860
So then when they start hearing these similar adages being used, they're like, oh, is it
00:19:43.640
My grandma said, this is exactly the thing that happened before, you know, World War
00:19:50.940
But, but yeah, so I understand that paranoia and I understand that concern.
00:19:54.680
And yeah, I think there's like a, I think there's a great, I imagine, I think there's
00:20:01.480
like a pressure for Jews to like label things as anti-Semitic, right?
00:20:06.400
Because I imagine, I don't know, but that they'll go, hey, if, if, if, if I point out
00:20:12.360
that that's anti-Semitic, then everybody will go, hey, we got to stop that anti-Semitism.
00:20:18.940
And then, you know, we'll snuff it out so it doesn't get too popular.
00:20:22.660
And what I think, unfortunately, a lot of Jews are learning is that people don't really
00:20:28.720
care that much if something is labeled anti-Semitic.
00:20:32.100
And I think, and I think a lot of Jews are like, why don't people care?
00:20:38.120
And I think that there is a disconnect in terms of like what non-Jews and Jews feel in
00:20:45.920
The paranoia that the Jews feel, non-Jews do not feel at all.
00:20:50.960
They see Kirby Enthusiasm, they see Seinfeld, and that's it.
00:20:54.780
Like, they think that like you're what Jews look like and you're not even a Jew.
00:21:01.180
But like, they don't know what like a Sephardic Jew looks like.
00:21:03.720
They don't know what like a Moroccan Jew looks like.
00:21:05.420
They don't even know that that's like a type of Jew, right?
00:21:07.560
So there's like one idea, it's from TV shows, and that's kind of it.
00:21:15.560
You know, I think a lot of people have like, there's a, the way I've described it is like,
00:21:19.200
there's like this like ambient light, this like sentiment about Jews.
00:21:23.200
And when the economy is good, it doesn't really matter, right?
00:21:26.460
But there's like, the feelings you could say, there's like some negative stereotypes, right?
00:21:30.320
It's just like, oh, they kind of stick together.
00:21:36.560
And then like, once the economy gets rough, they start going, oh, why do they have money
00:21:45.060
Once eggs get expensive, it's hard to pay your rent.
00:21:55.380
Why do they have this lobby that gets to lobby America and then we send a lot of money to
00:22:03.140
And then you go down that conspiracy rabbit hole.
00:22:06.400
And this is where I think like transparency is actually the best way of handling things.
00:22:12.920
Instead of like labeling people as anti-Semitic, I think like transparently disseminating information
00:22:19.880
The problem with that is you very quickly get into very uncomfortable territory because
00:22:24.700
let's say your point about Jews being overrepresented in certain things, right?
00:22:31.480
Now, once you begin to ask why, that throws shade on everyone else.
00:22:38.840
Because depending on what your explanation of that reason is, it's quite unpleasant for
00:22:44.900
For example, there are some people who will say it's cultural.
00:22:47.960
They will say the Jews have a super focused on education.
00:22:52.180
By the way, the Jews are not the only Jews in the world.
00:22:54.220
Like this same thing happens to all sorts of minority groups around the world and like
00:23:00.680
They're like the ones that do that type of business and whatever.
00:23:04.900
The moment things go bad, they get kicked out or killed.
00:23:08.500
So, but if let's say we take the cultural explanation, you say, well, these people have
00:23:15.140
It's implied the moment I say that it's superior, right?
00:23:18.160
If they perform better, that means their culture is superior.
00:23:26.080
So another explanation that people will say is, well, if you look at IQ by group, some
00:23:38.280
You guys control the weather and you make the IQ test.
00:23:47.880
So that's what I mean when I say the moment you begin to address that, we get into very
00:23:56.580
And the other problem you have is Jews tend to, like, I-
00:24:03.360
I think it's a combination of those two explanations.
00:24:06.220
And I'm leaning more in a genetic direction, personally.
00:24:10.020
You don't get way disproportionate Nobel Prize-winning scientists.
00:24:15.760
How can Jews be this smart and they haven't figured out how to not get kicked out of a
00:24:23.700
I thought you were going to say, how have they figured this out and not managed to be
00:24:39.160
Yeah, I guess Elon's going through it right now.
00:24:42.520
If World War III breaks out, I want the guy who sends the rockets to Mars on my team.
00:24:51.800
We need more, like, societal utility from the Jews.
00:24:56.120
Well, I mean, I think that's, like, the start, like, right there.
00:24:59.220
The, uh, you know, there's all this, like, concern about the relationship between
00:25:05.400
And first of all, like, Israel should be able to be criticized like every other f***ing country.
00:25:08.680
I hate this idea, like, if you're critical of Israel, it just, like, means you're an anti-Semite.
00:25:12.680
I think that does a great disservice to Jewish people in general.
00:25:18.380
Americans relentlessly criticize our own country.
00:25:27.760
Now, you can also be critical of the current war going on.
00:25:33.320
Maybe you disagree on it, but, like, you're not an anti-Semite for doing it.
00:25:40.420
So, like, we've got to allow a little bit of space for that, right?
00:25:43.880
And, yeah, so, I forgot what the f*** I was saying.
00:25:47.800
Well, I think your point broadly is when people have a meltdown because someone said something,
00:25:51.940
it's never going to result in the outcome that people think it is, which is, like, this thing gets shut down.
00:25:57.800
I just don't think we live in that world anymore.
00:26:00.460
So, I think when I talk about, like, you know, disseminating information, like, we don't live in the ages where, you know, information is centralized.
00:26:09.540
Now it's decentralized, so everybody has access to information.
00:26:11.520
And because of that, it's, like, easy to, you know, expose certain truths that didn't exist before.
00:26:18.720
So, it's, like, I think you actually need to be more transparent with information.
00:26:22.420
Anytime it seems like you're trying to squash it, humans have this instinct of going, well, why don't they want us to know about this thing?
00:26:28.380
So, it's, like, if right now people are questioning the relationship between U.S. and Israel and, like, why we're so close and why this relationship is so important, just tell them.
00:26:39.240
Like, just tell us, like, and then how much easier would it be for, like, a Jewish American that gets to go, hey, see, it's not just AIPAC is lobbying all these senators in it.
00:26:48.040
But if there isn't anything, then there's credibility to that criticism.
00:26:53.900
Like, I think this type of, I think this type of, like, open discussion is important.
00:26:58.280
You know, like, who knows what the f*** Israel and the Mossad does for America.
00:27:01.220
Like, you know, maybe America, maybe there's f***ed up people in America that have, like, you know, special interests.
00:27:06.960
They want to get more involved in the war in Ukraine.
00:27:13.400
Yeah, it was, like, a week before we decide to, like, send more weapons.
00:27:25.620
Like, hypothetically, we want a justification to go, you know, support this war in Ukraine.
00:27:30.660
And we need Putin to look like even more of a lunatic than he really is.
00:27:34.380
So his biggest detractor dies in prison in Siberia.
00:27:43.180
But the guy ends up dying, and now there's a justification.
00:27:48.660
We've got to go give him f***ing f***ing f***ing f***ing.
00:27:49.880
I'm making f*** up right now, like, poke holes and everything I'm saying.
00:27:53.960
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00:28:02.020
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Because once you shut things down, then this is the way I interpret it.
00:29:42.060
When I see somebody, if I ask you a question and you immediately shut it down, I go, oh,
00:29:50.880
And we have complete distrust in every institution in this country right now because we've either
00:30:01.020
I think a lot of these conspiracies sprout up from things that are quite mundane and boring.
00:30:07.760
Like, the truth is going to be way more boring than whatever the conspiracy we've cooked
00:30:15.520
Well, the problem is there are still conspiracies from ages ago that remain completely.
00:30:23.240
That's going to be boring when it comes out, bro.
00:30:32.660
Well, probably, well, there's maybe somebody doesn't want to lose a job.
00:30:38.940
Well, I think it was Sagar that said this about like 9-11, for example.
00:30:44.080
But like, I think Sagar said something about like, there was like a brand new FBI or CIA
00:30:50.100
director that was like a weekend that happened before.
00:30:55.060
He, I guess, didn't take the warning serious enough.
00:30:59.540
And then he's like, I've got to cover this up or else it's my ass.
00:31:07.280
But that's not even close to as interesting as the Jews did it.
00:31:12.900
You know, some ineptitude at the highest level of the CIA or FBI, whatever it is, is boring.
00:31:22.400
But come back to JFK, because I don't I don't really like that.
00:31:25.940
If it was a boring explanation, as boring as they knew this guy was going to do it and
00:31:34.880
Maybe boring is the wrong word, but I don't think it's as exciting as the Jews did it.
00:31:39.500
Or it's not even the Jews or who else, whoever else it is.
00:31:43.160
Like, I think it was the Italian mob at one point in time.
00:31:46.000
Like, well, we had Michael Francis on and he basically said in the paywall section of
00:32:02.360
The level of fact checking on this particular podcast is incredible.
00:32:07.780
So it's like, yeah, listen, there are people that would know way more about that shit than
00:32:12.400
What I assume is that when you try to stifle things, we get really creative and our mind
00:32:20.660
And we cook up the most insane conspiracies about it.
00:32:23.200
And the truth will definitely be interesting, but boring in comparison to what we've cooked
00:32:30.680
It seems like I'm trying to cover up these things.
00:32:34.100
No, like obviously something f***ed up happened.
00:32:37.000
But it's not as wild as like whatever f***ing lunatic on Twitter who used to like yell at
00:32:43.600
OnlyFans girls and now has decided he's a geopolitical expert is cooking up.
00:32:48.260
Like there's no way that the foremost geopolitical experts in the world used to yell at OnlyFans
00:32:55.440
Like there's no way that they have all the information.
00:33:00.460
Just the guys that used to yell at sluts are now like, no, no, no, no.
00:33:04.300
I'm going to expose the truth that only I have.
00:33:36.400
So you could do that, but we're not going to call you a sex worker.
00:33:41.960
We're not going to like, thank you at the Oscars or whatever.
00:33:57.640
I mean, look, I mean the, the girl who tend to like Lily Phillips, a thousand or Bonnie
00:34:08.440
And then a thousand dudes in a night or a day or whatever it is.
00:34:16.660
That was my way of like solving the grooming gang things that you guys have.
00:34:35.080
I don't think just because you do something a lot, it makes it work.
00:34:46.280
Here's the, here's the, what about Arnold Schwarzenegger?
00:35:06.980
We can call them dick takers, but we're not going to do this thing where you're like a
00:35:12.120
And it's just like somebody who shows up on a shift in a construction site.
00:35:19.160
Maybe you don't have other skills, which is fine.
00:35:23.640
But stop acting like it's not the easiest way out.
00:35:26.180
It's emotionally hard and you're going to feel that for years to come, but it's the
00:35:33.500
I see all these stats about the number of American women that are on OnlyFans.
00:36:01.760
And you know what's when you say fake, it actually is.
00:36:07.020
They just have other people that are chatting with the suckers who are paying them five,
00:36:14.720
And so it's not even the girl you're talking to, but humans are emotional beings.
00:36:22.260
It's like when someone's getting catfished, they don't want to find out the truth.
00:36:29.040
The person getting tricked participates in the lie.
00:36:36.980
So like, maybe I'm a douchebag for even calling it out.
00:36:44.360
You get that hit of dopamine and it's awesome and good for you.
00:36:51.840
I don't think, I think both people are getting hurt, don't you?
00:37:03.100
Listen, if you're spending like 20 grand a month on an OnlyFans girl, maybe you're getting hurt,
00:37:15.540
You know, when you're talking about this and you're saying about, you know, that you're
00:37:20.400
a willing participant in your own delusion, I find that really interesting because America,
00:37:30.100
We are willing participants in our own delusion.
00:37:32.300
And actually, one of the problems with America right now is that we're not as delusional as
00:37:41.140
Every American, when they're born, believes they will be a millionaire.
00:37:43.280
And some are starting to believe that that's not a possibility.
00:37:49.340
In order for this country to function in the way that it does, we need to have that like
00:37:57.140
We have the DNA of people who left their entire families for a chance at a better life, but
00:38:03.700
Like every one of us here left their entire family to never see again, hoping that it would
00:38:09.880
We're like the risk takers of the risk takers in the world.
00:38:14.020
So we're born and we go, okay, I'll be a millionaire, probably.
00:38:17.640
I mean, there's retarded people who are millionaires on the internet.
00:38:33.220
How stupid do you feel if you're an OnlyFans girl?
00:38:36.460
Their girl's making millions of dollars getting dressed.
00:38:49.520
Because there's people who make millions doing something even more retarded than that.
00:39:03.360
But that's the problem because the American dream is a thing that binds you all together.
00:39:09.400
This country only works if you think anyone can make it.
00:39:16.540
But if you lose that, then what has America got?
00:39:20.120
I mean, it's still the greatest place in the history of the universe.
00:39:25.580
I mean, I just, like, I don't know another place.
00:39:29.320
But this is what I've always said about there's such a big difference.
00:39:31.900
I think a lot of the stuff about conspiracy theories is, like, cross-cultural misunderstanding
00:39:36.260
because people who don't come to America from Europe, they're like,
00:39:40.840
But I think it's the other side of the coin, which is, like,
00:39:43.840
this is a place where everyone believes that anything is possible, right?
00:39:47.900
So if anything is possible, then anything is possible.
00:40:03.560
Leaves us open to the consumption of conspiracy theories in a way other cultures might not.
00:40:09.220
Like, yeah, I've never thought about it like that.
00:40:13.360
I think, I think it's definitely that because, like, if anything's possible, then.
00:40:19.020
And also, like, once I'm fed truths that I've been lied to by my government, like, once
00:40:24.120
I found out that, like, for-profit pharmaceutical companies will, like, inject children with s***,
00:40:29.300
I'll go, okay, well, I'll never trust pharmaceutical company again.
00:40:32.320
And then somebody starts going, well, hey, these, these vaccines could give your kid autism.
00:40:37.240
I just had a daughter and I'm like, well, what does that mean?
00:40:39.760
Like, and they're just some random idiot with a TikTok account, but.
00:40:51.300
But, like, all it takes is, one, for me to start going down that rabbit hole because, like,
00:40:55.340
I want to protect that little girl, like, more than anything in my entire life if I want
00:40:59.600
And I don't want to, one, I want to protect her.
00:41:01.620
Two, I don't want to be the responsible party to anything that could be negative that happened
00:41:05.940
And I don't have the education to thwart any of the information that I'm consuming.
00:41:11.520
Somebody says a vaccine did this in this trial.
00:41:17.300
So I think, going back to what we said before, like, I think what Americans see is, like,
00:41:22.500
Like, nothing would be better if they just did a vaccine trial and then found out, hey,
00:41:26.320
we actually found no adverse effects, you know, or no more than any other medication
00:41:31.680
There are these instances where this potentially could happen.
00:41:34.840
If your kid has these, you know, red flags, maybe you consider a different option.
00:41:40.060
Like, how amazing would that be for American parents where we just go, thank you so much
00:41:45.360
And we'd like to make that decision with, like, truthful information.
00:41:48.620
Do you think that's where the other, you know, Francis and I love America.
00:41:53.260
But do you think that's maybe where the other side of another coin comes in, which is this,
00:41:57.980
the culture here is so obsessed with making money.
00:42:01.100
That people will do some pretty horrific shit as long as it makes business sense.
00:42:08.220
We have a saying, I don't know if you guys have it there, but, like, it's just business.
00:42:15.740
But it's a ridiculous saying, like, I could fuck you over, but, like, hey, it was just
00:42:21.380
Like, you and I built a relationship based on what I assumed were shared values.
00:42:26.500
And then you did something that broke the trust that I had in you with those values.
00:42:35.440
You know, we all call ourselves Americans and we're in this thing together, but sometimes
00:42:39.520
it seems like we have no problem taking advantage of other Americans.
00:42:43.120
And it's like with the crypto rug pulls and all this kind of stuff.
00:42:52.160
But that doesn't mean that you're allowed to fuck them over.
00:42:55.480
You know, maybe they had optimism about what you were about to offer them.
00:42:59.460
Well, you can be a really big fan of capitalism, but also recognize that there are extremes to it.
00:43:07.140
I think one of the big issues in America is, I was just doing the All In podcast, so I want to credit them for this idea.
00:43:13.020
But, like, I think the reason why a lot of Americans feel like a lack of hope about their ability to be financially successful is it comes from, I think, like, post-global financial crisis.
00:43:30.140
In order to, like, get the economy going again, I think the Fed dropped interest rates to, like, 0%.
00:43:39.720
And if you're somebody who's, like, financially illiterate, I'm not at all.
00:43:44.900
You take out as much money as you possibly can, and you dump it into a recovering market that you know is going to go up.
00:43:50.780
And I think a lot of Americans that were very wealthy did that, and then they saw insane gains in the stock market.
00:43:58.660
The middle class that had, like, what we call, like, 401Ks and Roth IRAs, I don't know if you guys have the same thing where you're from.
00:44:07.580
They were, through these investment tools, able to get some access to that, so they went up a little bit.
00:44:16.680
I think it's very hard to believe in capitalism when it's not working for you.
00:44:23.620
Like, all these people here, their wages didn't go up.
00:44:28.040
This shows you, and this is not to rag on the Democrats, but, like, it shows you how disconnected Democrats are from, like, actual working class people.
00:44:41.380
The stock market does not reflect the majority of Americans.
00:44:45.720
The majority of Americans don't even own a stock.
00:44:49.640
And what they're seeing is their elected officials going, the economy's great.
00:44:54.100
And they're like, I've been making the same wage at Walmart, and it's getting more expensive.
00:45:00.320
How can you tell me the economy's great, right?
00:45:03.420
And when you feel that, you just feel like the train got on the tracks and pulled away and left you behind.
00:45:10.000
So then you start to have this, like, anti-American sentiment because America doesn't seem to be working for you.
00:45:14.680
So one of the things that, it's not my idea, but, like, I think is very important is, like, you want Americans to be on board with capitalism.
00:45:25.580
So I don't know if it's given every American $10,000 invested in, you know, S&P 500 from the day they're born that they can't touch until they're 22.
00:45:33.360
But I promise you, you have a very different sentiment about the stock market, about capitalism, about America, about CEOs.
00:45:43.780
Like, it's hard to hate Elon when your biggest stock holding is Tesla, right?
00:45:48.940
Like, all of a sudden, you go, I kind of like this guy.
00:45:53.520
When every American is invested in the success of American industry, you will have a very different relationship with American industry.
00:46:03.300
And I think as to what you guys are saying, we feel way too comfortable doing it.
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Were you surprised with the Luigi Mangione case, the number of people who came out and were pro this dude?
00:46:45.860
I think that that's like a really important thing to pay attention to if you have a lot of money in America.
00:46:50.860
I think the other thing that people don't talk about as much, but it's like what happened in California in the Palisades.
00:47:00.180
And like you get, you'll understand everything about a culture based on their reaction to like defining events.
00:47:05.540
So the Mangione thing, everybody was making jokes on Twitter, that guy.
00:47:09.780
Just for people who don't know, this is a guy who went and assassinated a healthcare company.
00:47:19.480
I don't feel like we need to worry about libel on this one.
00:47:25.660
And then what happened in the Palisades is there were some fires that burned down an entire district.
00:47:29.720
And the attitude was essentially, oh, they have another house in Aspen.
00:47:39.720
And the sentiment is, what we were just talking about, is like there's a lot of people that are poor here.
00:47:44.340
And they feel like the country has kind of let them just stay there as it pulled away and made all this money in crypto or made all this money in the stock market or made all this money on.
00:47:56.740
Well, so now when all those people that they believe, remember people are emotional, so it's like that they believe are the ones that made all the money on the stock market and made all the money in crypto or made, they're the CEOs.
00:48:08.520
Now that their houses got burned down and one of them gets shot in the head, they go, I don't give a f***.
00:48:15.340
You let me sit here like an asshole while y'all took out loans for 0% and then made 22% back on the stock market.
00:48:21.820
You never checked on me and saw how I was doing.
00:48:25.000
And when you think about it, America, nobody does cults like you do cults in this country.
00:48:38.560
So if you've essentially ostracized these people from the American dream, they're separated, they're angry, they're resentful, and guess what?
00:48:48.700
You need to be really worried, particularly now that there's the internet where everybody can connect,
00:48:53.660
that they're going to form their own cult and something quite dark is going to happen.
00:49:02.600
I mean, you see the way people are talking about the Jews on Twitter right now.
00:49:11.340
Show me the billionaire guy who's like, yeah, these Jews.
00:49:18.720
So there's like, yeah, so it's, yeah, I think it comes from desperation.
00:49:27.920
You must be a little bit, have you got a gun under your pillow for Luigi?
00:49:35.380
No, I, but no, I think you definitely feel it as you become more successful.
00:49:42.900
Like, as you become more successful, there's going to be more criticism.
00:49:46.540
And as your life becomes less relatable, there's going to be more criticism.
00:49:50.560
I think when you're on your way up, you remind people of their, their, their hopes, their
00:49:55.000
And I think like when you hit a level of success, you can remind some people of what they may
00:50:03.700
You have less of that here than we have in Britain.
00:50:06.900
Like in Britain, we absolutely hate successful people in every way.
00:50:13.700
So like, and she told me, she's like, I mean, like I'm talking about like work in class,
00:50:17.300
like dad worked on the docks, you know, died of, you know, lung cancer or whatever from
00:50:27.460
And she told me that, you know, it's like this idea of who do you think you are?
00:50:32.000
And this is like, I imagine there's like the, the class system still exists like emotionally.
00:50:41.360
And, uh, which I don't know if I'd make an argument for it, but I wonder if like part
00:50:47.540
of the idea of it was to like temper what you have in America, which is the frustration
00:50:58.160
Like maybe the idea in Britain is like, all right, well, if we just make everybody feel
00:51:01.720
like they should stay there, at least they'll just be happy where they are with their people.
00:51:06.220
They'll be annoyed at the rich people, but they never hang out with them.
00:51:09.140
Now you didn't plan for Instagram and social media when you created the system.
00:51:15.980
They've got to look at rich people doing all day and they're like, damn, but back in the
00:51:25.560
Because you spend, you spend most of your time.
00:51:29.440
So Francis, Francis has a bit of a chip on his shoulder.
00:51:33.780
Well, because he comes from a, like, he will say, he will say lower middle class, which
00:51:40.080
is a way of saying he feels slightly insecure about it.
00:51:42.920
Whereas I went to boarding school and I'm, I'm from another country, so I don't really
00:51:51.020
So no matter how successful we are, he still feels resentful.
00:52:18.600
Like, I was watching your special and it's great and I urge everyone to watch it, but
00:52:22.040
when you came out and everyone was going mad and there was a big fireworks, if that
00:52:26.320
happened in Scotland, you would have been executed.
00:52:41.420
But he's American, so when he's coming over, it's factored in.
00:52:44.360
Your point is not if Andrew did that in Scotland.
00:52:46.680
Your point is if a British comedian worked out like that, had that kind of entrance.
00:52:51.480
Everyone would be like, what the fuck does this country use?
00:52:56.960
Nothing makes me happier than pissing people like you off.
00:53:02.660
It's because we can't express how pissed off we are.
00:53:13.340
You're obviously very good at what you do, so you've earned it.
00:53:16.740
It doesn't mean that we should feel entitled to it.
00:53:18.380
We're all fucking so lucky that we even get to do this for a living.
00:53:21.600
But what I've realized is that the people who are very happy for my success, be that fans
00:53:27.760
or even other comedians or stuff like that, are usually pretty confident folks.
00:53:33.700
And the ones who maybe are upset, maybe not as confident.
00:53:39.460
It takes a lot of confidence to be happy for someone else's success.
00:53:43.920
And this industry naturally attracts people with bottomless pits.
00:53:47.440
You know, like I know people who are doing millions and millions and millions of dollars
00:53:51.380
worth of tickets, and there's somebody selling a little more than them, and that's the only
00:53:58.800
You know, you got so lucky to have this opportunity to do that, and you're focused on like the
00:54:02.700
one other guy who's selling more tickets than you.
00:54:05.100
Like, why don't you focus on the 99.999% of comedians who you're selling more tickets
00:54:13.380
Like, I am, I don't, I don't get that feeling like about other people.
00:54:19.680
No, well, it's, it's a really healthy way to be, but I will say from personal experience,
00:54:24.080
it is a lot easier to feel that way when you are successful.
00:54:27.200
It is a lot easier to have that attitude when you yourself are successful.
00:54:30.420
But the majority of my life has not been success.
00:54:32.780
So it's like, yeah, it's like, but even during that time, like the people I really admired,
00:54:37.400
I would, and I, hopefully you don't feel like I'm ragging on you.
00:54:49.400
But, but yeah, like, you know, even coming up, like the people who I like really admired
00:54:58.140
That's different though, because the gap is big.
00:55:01.640
So it's, if you're a new comic and you're looking at Bill Burr, you can be inspired by
00:55:06.840
But if you're looking at the guy that you started with.
00:55:12.680
And you, you think you're more talented, which every comedian thinks.
00:55:16.480
So it's a lot easier to have that, but it's the right attitude.
00:55:19.180
I'm just saying it's, for me, it's become super easy now that we're like, we're doing
00:55:27.340
He's, we learned that definitely learned that from Joe.
00:55:29.620
Cause the first time we went and did the show, suddenly it really hit us the way that, especially
00:55:34.260
I think it's a big cultural difference between America and the UK in America.
00:55:38.000
It's like this, there's plenty for everybody in Britain.
00:55:41.480
This sort of feels like it's very limited and everyone is scrapping over, you know,
00:55:51.300
Like the comedy scene isn't what it is today if he's not around.
00:55:56.420
And I mean that in terms of the culture that he passes.
00:56:01.980
Like if you're somebody who's like a gatekeeper and you don't put on other comics, you don't
00:56:06.320
try to help people, you're kind of ostracized from that scene.
00:56:10.580
Like you're not looked at as somebody who like carries on the tradition of the scene, which
00:56:15.880
And there's plenty to eat, like me getting something is going to take it away from you.
00:56:21.500
And the fact that we can all do everything online, it's not like we're competing for
00:56:26.600
You can just put your special up whenever you want.
00:56:30.100
So I think that like, I don't think he gets enough credit for like the culture that he's
00:56:36.200
created around a business that's like insanely competitive and has the most insecure people.
00:56:41.200
Like competitive and insecurity does not go well when it comes to like social cohesion
00:56:54.100
Did becoming a dad change some of the ways that you looked at life?
00:57:01.040
Like every cliche you could ever imagine about having children.
00:57:04.780
You're actually embarrassed as a comedian that you don't have more unique takes.
00:57:09.080
Like I thought, oh, I'm going to have all this like unique takes about my daughter.
00:57:12.480
No, it's like my daughter has the best smile and the funniest laugh.
00:57:20.920
I became a lot more empathetic when I became a dad.
00:57:28.120
I think that like I've always, even though like maybe it wasn't reflected in my comedy,
00:57:32.840
but I've always been able to have like a good amount of empathy, I think.
00:57:44.820
Like it's very easy to just not care about whatever criticism is out there on the internet.
00:57:51.440
As long as like my daughter's happy and my wife's happy.
00:57:54.760
Like I really don't need anything else outside of that.
00:57:57.160
And then my friends, like those three, I'm okay.
00:58:00.660
Before that, and granted this comes with like a certain level of success in the business too.
00:58:05.300
Like there is a privilege to be like not as concerned about like what the world is saying about an interview I did or something.
00:58:13.720
But yeah, I'm just like very satisfied and happy as long as they're happy.
00:58:19.660
Look, starting a business is exciting, but it isn't easy.
00:58:26.420
It's late nights, awkward first sales and wondering if your bank balance is going to survive until Friday.
00:58:32.020
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00:59:36.060
It's really funny when you talk about being a father of a daughter.
00:59:41.720
Because a friend of ours, Melissa Chen, was saying that your number one duty as a father or mother of a daughter is to keep her away from OnlyFans.
01:00:00.400
Like, you don't really put a gender on them as a child.
01:00:05.000
Like, you're not like, oh, this is my daughter.
01:00:08.900
Because they don't really do male or female things in the beginning, you know.
01:00:12.920
But you as like a dad definitely have a more protective.
01:00:16.780
Like, when I didn't know what we were going to have it, I assumed it was a boy.
01:00:21.020
The second it was a daughter, I was like, we got to look at private.
01:00:24.120
I can't let this girl be around the hooligans I went to school with.
01:00:28.200
So you do have a natural, you know, protectiveness.
01:00:41.260
He's got boy levels of energy and smashing his head into things and stuff like that.
01:00:48.780
It's the first time you smiled at all interview.
01:00:59.560
I became evangelical about kids once I had mine.
01:01:03.740
Why do you think people don't have as many kids?
01:01:08.520
And I think that we start a little bit later here because we're so, like, kind of career
01:01:14.240
Like, I mean, the whole special is about my sperm sucking and, like, us having to go
01:01:18.040
through this huge process of, you know, eventually to IVF where we were able and we got lucky
01:01:25.000
But, like, a lot of people go through that for, you know, eight years and unfortunately
01:01:33.500
Like, I got flooded with all these stories of people who, like, tried forever.
01:01:38.100
And what is nice about that is that, like, you get to see how much people really want
01:01:45.080
I think a lot of, like, what we project in media is, like, how our kids annoy us or how
01:01:50.340
they're, like, taking away from something that we want to do.
01:01:53.840
And my experience and the kind of people who have been relating to my special is people
01:02:01.220
who are desperate to have a family and they thought they weren't going to be able to have
01:02:05.880
And then with some luck and some science, we're then able to.
01:02:13.720
So it's like, you know how, like, when immigrants come to America, they love everything about
01:02:19.100
We're like, I don't know if I'll be able to get there.
01:02:21.380
And then we got there and we're like, oh, my God, this country is amazing.
01:02:28.520
Do you think a large part of the problem that we see with society is that people don't have
01:02:33.020
families and they're not rooted and they don't feel connected?
01:02:39.900
I think that that's, and how do we, like, re-instill that?
01:02:43.040
I also think when you have both parents, you know, working really hard, it's maybe difficult
01:02:49.040
And I think stay-at-home moms are really scrutinized.
01:02:54.040
Like, my wife is, you know, she was, she's got her MBA from NYU.
01:02:58.780
She's working at Apple, like, PMing AI projects.
01:03:01.880
She's like, very high-functioning, you know, ambitious woman.
01:03:13.980
Well, it's, once the baby comes along, it's hard for that not to be your priority.
01:03:20.480
It's like, I don't do shit that would be good for my career because I'm like, you know
01:03:30.040
Than going out and getting X grand for this thing that, you know, that I'd quite like to
01:03:35.360
But, yeah, but I just, this is more, it's worth more.
01:03:46.580
And it's awesome that you're prioritizing that.
01:04:01.080
Like, I love to see that, I love to see that reinforced.
01:04:04.340
I think that message needs to be out there more.
01:04:07.440
Yeah, this is what I think is missing from, like, the masculinity movement or whatever.
01:04:14.340
Like, it's all the same guys who have now become, like, the truth on, like, Israel and
01:04:20.280
Like, telling us how to be a man and none of them have kids.
01:04:23.620
Like, I don't need you to tell me how to be a man if you don't have kids.
01:04:28.000
Like, you could tell me, like, how to lift weights or you could tell me how to do the
01:04:31.100
But you don't know what it is to be a man yet until you really have children.
01:04:41.060
Having children isn't about putting sperm into a woman.
01:04:50.100
It's about what that commitment and that responsibility does to you as a human being
01:04:59.020
And, like, those are the people that I really look up to.
01:05:01.980
Like, I love that you're making that extra time.
01:05:04.340
That's what I, I mean, my schedule is, I come at home six o'clock every single day.
01:05:12.320
And then I hang with her in the morning when I wake up.
01:05:13.900
And then it's like, I can't break that six o'clock.
01:05:18.480
But I try my hardest to not break that six o'clock because that's the time I get to hang
01:05:22.180
And now she's at the age where she starts, she can tell if I'm packing a bag that I'm
01:05:31.140
I did a video call with my wife and son, and he's talking now.
01:05:36.980
The day we arrived from the UK, we landed yesterday.
01:05:46.140
It's like, she'll, like, grab on and she'll, like, if I try to put her down or I try to
01:05:52.880
And when your child grabs onto your arm, like, you can actually feel her fingers indent into
01:06:10.420
Like, I can't take her off of me when she wants to be on.
01:06:17.980
And then maybe she'll make the move to go on to my wife.
01:06:20.820
And then I'll try to sneak out of my own home so I can provide for her.
01:06:25.980
But considering that you have a daughter, has it changed the way that you see the world
01:06:42.180
Like, I grew up with, like, a very strong woman.
01:06:48.580
My dad then came over to work in that business.
01:06:51.560
So, like, my expectations of, like, what women can do have always been, like, really high.
01:06:55.400
So I think a lot of my rejection of, like, the fourth wave of feminism victimhood that
01:07:03.000
you saw was, like, I'm, like, seeing these chicks from Harvard talk about, like, how hard
01:07:07.340
it is to be a woman, like, what they've got to go through.
01:07:09.480
I'm, like, my mom stopped going to school at 14 and, like, poor as fuck, you know, outskirts
01:07:14.960
of Glasgow, Scotland, comes to America and has, like, this huge success.
01:07:18.600
And you go to Harvard and you can't figure it out.
01:07:23.920
So, yeah, I don't think that, but I will say it's changed my idea of, like, stay-at-home
01:07:31.020
moms and the importance of, like, motherhood and being, if you can afford it, like, really
01:07:36.700
being with that kid and not looking at it as a sacrifice, but, like, really something that
01:07:43.960
Like, how do we pour into that and try to not make the mistake of, like, now that I know
01:07:50.180
my wife is, like, staying home, I'm, like, giving her other tasks to do.
01:07:54.680
And that tells you everything about how you view staying at home, right?
01:08:00.800
Because, like, if I viewed it as, oh, this is a full-time job that takes up all your time,
01:08:04.720
I would never be like, hey, can you also manage our finances?
01:08:08.360
Like, but it's one of those things where, like, you've got to start realizing, wait a minute,
01:08:17.400
They are an empty void as well in a lot of ways.
01:08:20.220
Like, they don't just get filled up and then stops and then you work on the finances.
01:08:23.060
Like, you can, every day it can be teaching, it can be finding new activities, finding
01:08:29.520
So, well, obviously I need help in life from my wife, you know.
01:08:34.440
I don't want to treat taking after, taking care of the kid as if it's this thing that
01:08:42.620
And it's, because it's tough, because on the one hand, you've got success and you
01:08:49.880
live in New York and it's so disastrously expensive.
01:08:54.320
I can't, I don't understand how even upper middle class people live in this city.
01:09:00.380
So this is the great thing about New York, okay, is that it is humbling.
01:09:07.500
And we've never, like, I had to learn, obviously, like, a little bit through my mom, but like,
01:09:14.920
like, there are people, for example, that they don't like to show how well they're doing
01:09:19.700
because they are concerned that it could piss off their community, their fans, or whoever
01:09:30.780
When you grow up in New York, you've never felt rich because there's always somebody way
01:09:40.580
You never feel like you have the coolest clothes.
01:09:43.640
You never feel like you get into the best club.
01:09:45.440
Like, nobody ever feels like they're at the top because it's literally the top of everyone
01:09:50.360
in the world has converged on this one tiny little city, right?
01:09:58.660
Like, I know sometimes, like, trying, you know, like, trying, making an effort.
01:10:03.080
Like, there's this little thing in culture right now which is, like, if you're trying,
01:10:07.360
It's, like, I can't wait till we get off of that little shit.
01:10:11.600
Like, you're just afraid to fail, and failure is cool.
01:10:15.360
If you're not failing, you're not trying hard enough.
01:10:17.220
Like, if you are not failing, your dreams aren't big enough, right?
01:10:19.920
So, like, but in New York, we try because that's the only way that you're going to be
01:10:25.380
You're going against the best of the best from when you're a kid.
01:10:32.620
It's, like, the smartest person in Korea married the smartest person in Russia, and
01:10:35.900
they made a fucking kid in New York, and I got to compete against that motherfucker
01:10:41.760
So trying is cool, but you never feel like you're bragging because there's already somebody
01:10:46.500
I had to learn that, like, posting, like, a picture on a fancy vacation could, like,
01:10:54.020
And I'm like, this vacation is nothing compared to the guy who lives down the block from me.
01:11:01.120
It was just, like, a thing I had to learn about success.
01:11:03.960
But I do ultimately think that, like, trying is, you have to, I would love, I think that's
01:11:18.660
That's a key part of your success, because in Britain, we look down on trying.
01:11:22.160
When we started this show, people were going, you're trying?
01:11:31.360
So you guys have American football, we have rugby, right?
01:11:34.020
And the one thing that happens is when you score, the same thing happens, which is you
01:11:37.720
have the opportunity to kick for an extra point.
01:11:41.800
So there was this guy at my school, shout out to him, Tom Brown, great rugby player.
01:11:46.140
He went on to nearly play professionally, actually.
01:11:48.740
And there was a game, I think it was end of the season.
01:11:52.880
It was, like, 22-22 or something like that, right?
01:11:55.040
And he rushed out and blocked the conversion attempt.
01:12:06.380
Because they kicked the penalty, it was three points, they won.
01:12:10.880
But basically, because he blocked that conversion, the team won.
01:12:14.580
And the next day, the entire thing at the school was, oh, what a keener.
01:12:49.940
I tell you what I think in the UK it is, at least part of it.
01:12:55.780
The landed gentry are people who were rich because their grandparents were rich.
01:13:00.780
So there is a link in people's minds between wealth and being someone whose entire life
01:13:11.520
So if you're rich, you're like, you're probably a bit sus.
01:13:19.400
You didn't create things of value to other people.
01:13:21.520
You didn't make a special that people went and paid 50 bucks for.
01:13:25.100
You just got it because your dad had it and he had it because his dad had it.
01:13:33.380
I think if you didn't earn it or if you didn't create your own path, you shouldn't be able
01:13:38.080
But then there's the other part of the equation, which is if you do come from humble backgrounds
01:13:53.160
And you know we hate them because we use French words.
01:14:07.400
You know, the British hate Trump and they think, well, the Americans think because it's
01:14:13.860
And we look at that and go, that is disgusting.
01:14:24.980
We still want to interview you, but your golden toilet is a fucking abomination.
01:14:28.460
Some people would say that about, for example, like Miami, right?
01:14:35.040
They're like orange cars, like a Lamborghini Urus.
01:14:38.400
It's just like, it's the first thing you do when you get some money is that you buy something
01:14:42.660
that lets everybody know that you got some money.
01:14:44.480
And so somebody's like, oh, there's a classless test there.
01:14:47.800
You know what else is really nice about Miami is that there's a classless test.
01:14:55.400
When you're in these, like, restrictive cultures, like if you're at the fucking Downton
01:14:59.900
Abbey or whatever that shit is, and you're like, am I eating the salad right?
01:15:04.080
You're, like, constantly worried about, like, this pretentiousness being cast on you because
01:15:09.560
you're not operating with the level of, like, there's a specific fealty or something like that.
01:15:18.120
You've got to know the rules and have an appropriate level of deference to the right person.
01:15:25.260
Like, we fought a war so we didn't have to do that shit.
01:15:27.440
Like, if I want to grab the salad with my fingers and shove it in my mouth, then I'll do
01:15:31.840
that because that's the best way that I, did I buy it?
01:15:44.660
And you sit there, you go, you know, rich people, they made some nice fucking shit.
01:15:49.180
I like tapping in for, like, a week or two, going to a nice resort.
01:15:55.000
I like tapping in, enjoying it, getting the fuck out.
01:15:57.620
Get back on the street, have somebody spit, talk some shit.
01:16:08.580
Authentic action is buying an orange car the second you get money because you're excited.
01:16:15.960
Do I hope my daughter never dates a guy who has an orange car?
01:16:18.660
I hope she never dates a guy who has an orange car.
01:16:23.700
Because he's doing what he wants to do and he's not doing it because he's worried about, like,
01:16:29.580
what some old money person that's never achieved anything in their entire life is telling him
01:16:38.500
How can you let motherfuckers that never earned a dollar make you feel shitty about what you do?
01:16:54.760
But before Rose did that selfish thing, like, like, why does nobody talk about this?
01:16:59.900
This is this very, this very common in America.
01:17:07.300
No, she could have said, there's two of us here.
01:17:32.600
Billy's character, but also, like, there's certain characters that are specifically pushing
01:17:36.320
back against this pretentiousness we're talking about.
01:17:39.220
So the woman that teaches him how to use the silverware, like, she's calling a farce on
01:17:50.600
She probably is looked down upon, but she got more money than all these motherfuckers.
01:17:57.320
Like, there's, like, these legacy families that you've heard the names, you know, the
01:18:08.020
And so, like, your name lasts a little bit, but eventually, you know, like, what are you
01:18:16.020
You get, like, a few generations, and then, this is America, baby.
01:18:21.360
Whereas, like, they would just maintain their estates in Britain for, like, the next 300
01:18:30.800
So we've got Premier League soccer in the UK, and for most young working class boys, that's
01:18:37.020
their dream, because that's how you make a lot of money, plus you play soccer, which
01:18:41.640
And then you see these kids who are earning an astronomical amount of money at the age
01:18:49.320
And then you get all these fat people who are, like, our age older going, I can't believe
01:18:54.120
I'm like, you can't believe a 20-year-old dude who grew up in a project, has got money,
01:19:12.860
I think you guys need to tap into what's happening here.
01:19:19.400
Andrew, on that subject, we'll wrap up with this.
01:19:21.300
Are you happy that your success came a little bit later in life?
01:19:29.220
I'm happy that I got to experience, like, getting some success and then, like, losing it.
01:19:38.000
This is, like, a tricky way of looking at success, but, like, maybe get some success.
01:19:44.420
Early on, I was, like, on these, like, MTV shows.
01:19:46.880
They were called, like, Guy Code and all these things.
01:19:48.820
It was outside of, like, it wasn't stand-up, but it was, like, comedy type of TV shows.
01:19:52.740
And then that ended, and then I was doing the podcast with Charlamagne Tha God, which ended up being, like, the most fruitful thing that I've ever done in my entire life in terms of, like, building an audience, deep connectivity.
01:20:04.360
It told me, it taught me, like, what the internet really was and let me know that there was, like, an appetite for comedy on the internet.
01:20:12.640
But in terms of, like, perceived success, like, from going on, from being on every TV show on MTV to then doing the pod, it was, like, getting recognized in the street went away.
01:20:26.080
Not away, but, like, not, it wasn't like it was.
01:20:33.060
So, I just, I didn't because I was able to do the thing I love, which was stand-up.
01:20:41.080
And I was, like, building this really cool thing with my friend.
01:20:44.940
And so, to me, I didn't see it as, like, a setback, per se, because I was, like, oh, I'm getting funnier and this show is, like, really growing.
01:20:51.660
And, like, but I noticed a difference in, like, people interacting with me, right?
01:20:58.180
And also, like, I got to be, I noticed a difference with, like, people just interacting with me, like, with Charlamagne.
01:21:05.260
So, people coming on the show and, like, just not caring at all, like, what I had to say.
01:21:11.480
And being, like, okay, I got to, I, listen, they're here because of who he is.
01:21:21.020
Like, learn how to operate and score within this system.
01:21:24.400
If you're on team with Jordan, you're not going to get the ball as much as Jordan.
01:21:31.660
So, just kind of, like, learning how to do that, observing him and, like, trying to soak up as much game.
01:21:40.720
Weirdly, like, I was still selling tickets and stuff on the road because I had the pod.
01:21:44.980
But there was a different, like, perceived success.
01:21:47.280
So, I got to kind of have, like, without it and then go through it again.
01:21:51.920
And that was really helpful because it was like I got to do it twice.
01:21:56.020
So, I understood what the mechanisms of it were.
01:22:00.240
Like, how it made me feel emotionally and how I could operate within it.
01:22:06.760
I wanted to be incredibly successful at stand-up.
01:22:09.400
So, I tried to, like, figure out how to do that.
01:22:17.300
And that is something, like, you got to be offensive with fame.
01:22:24.220
Like, not offensive in terms of, like, offend people.
01:22:30.820
But, like, once your name is click-worthy, there will be people that are just making views, videos,
01:22:36.860
because it will get views simply because it's about you or has your name in it.
01:22:42.140
And then once other people see that there's views in it, other people also make videos.
01:22:45.820
And then, like, I didn't even, in my mind, I was like, well, I'll just keep putting out fire shit.
01:22:51.460
It's just, like, actually, you have to find a way to navigate all these things.
01:23:04.920
Finding out what to acknowledge and what not to acknowledge.
01:23:07.720
But, like, it's a different part of, like, once the last special came out and everything was kind of cool and, you know, successful.
01:23:20.040
And from doing this press run and, like, doing a bunch of shows, I realized the importance of going on other people's pods.
01:23:27.320
Like, you can create a diverse group of guests for your podcast.
01:23:30.680
And the only people that that will matter to are the people who already know who you are.
01:23:34.260
When you go to other people's plays and you're, like, interrogated, and I mean that in a good way.
01:23:42.580
And the people who don't like you find out who you really are.
01:23:47.620
And then they go, oh, shit, these guys are, like, reasonable dudes.
01:23:51.740
And, like, oh, this is actually really smart and thoughtful.
01:23:56.960
And he's not, like, some headliner soundbite that I see on the internet.
01:24:00.660
And then I create an idea about him based on that.
01:24:07.540
And I think now it's, like, I need to go on my biggest detractor's show as long as they're not, like, some fucking retard.
01:24:15.240
But, like, they might have an idea of me that's not fully formed.
01:24:20.300
And then from us sitting down, I might go, yeah, I really like this guy.
01:24:25.420
And that person might go, oh, wow, he's not as I thought he was.
01:24:29.280
And the only way that happens is if we're having these conversations outside of our podcasts.
01:24:34.880
Yeah, that's one little thing I learned from this one.
01:24:41.800
But it's one thing I recommend even for you guys as you guys continue to skyrocket.
01:24:45.980
It's, like, who can you have conversations with that are going to be hard?
01:24:53.360
But that's going to be positioned away because people are just going to read the headline.
01:24:56.180
But, like, how you go into their home and let them push back on ideas you have.
01:25:25.700
So whatever you think is going to happen in the future, you can invest in it at Wealthsimple.
01:25:35.040
It's one of the reasons I do a lot of stuff that's not in, not with people who agree with me.
01:25:41.840
Before Andrew answers the final question at the end of the interview, make sure to head over to our sub stack.
01:25:46.780
The link is in the description where you'll be able to see this.
01:25:50.100
What is a joke you thought would kill, but completely bombed?
01:25:54.400
If podcasting had existed at this level 20 years ago, which old school comics do you think would have killed it the most in the format?
01:26:01.640
I heard that you consider Seinfeld to be overrated.
01:26:08.320
Before we go to sub stack and ask you questions from our viewers.
01:26:12.320
What's the one thing we're not talking about that we should be right now?
01:26:19.220
One thing we're not talking about that we should be right now.
01:26:31.660
For as big as like the story about anti-Semitism and like Jews and how big it is on Twitter.
01:26:39.140
Like even with Joe's episode with I think Ian Carroll.
01:26:54.660
Like I would think it would be like Kanye numbers for the episode.
01:26:59.480
You know, I would think it'd be like Elon level numbers for the episode.
01:27:09.640
So what I would, what I'm curious about, what nobody's talking about is like, what are people thinking?
01:27:15.520
Like, I actually think this is quite a small group of people that are talking about this on the Internet and talking about Twitter and making it seem like everybody cares about it.
01:27:30.540
Which for Joe is not high at all because he's so successful.
01:27:40.140
So it's like, but the talk comparatively is like.
01:27:46.140
Probably half of those views of people have watched, hate watching that as well.
01:27:50.980
Like, so the way I would digest this is like, wait a minute, is this?
01:27:59.220
But it's, it's more about like, one thing I would say to Jews is like, as big as it seems on Twitter, it's not actually reflective over the general population.
01:28:08.080
Like, they aren't as consumed by this as it looks like they are on Twitter, right?
01:28:12.840
So that's one thing that we know, like, for a fact, data-wise, I know we talk about feelings, but like, and I don't want to like talk you out of your feelings, but maybe that's one thing that makes you feel a little bit more comfortable.
01:28:21.400
Like, there's a group of people that are on this platform that are really engaging with content and then creating content around it.
01:28:28.520
But in terms of like, overall interest in it, it doesn't seem like it is there as much as just some comedian that's going on, Joe, and having a conversation.
01:28:40.680
Like, if it was getting 40 million views, I'd be like, uh-oh, no bueno.
01:28:43.620
Like, I would imagine like, Candace talking about Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively got way more traction than her talking about his room.
01:28:53.640
I don't know, but I guarantee, like, I had my wife going, have you watched Candace Owens' thing on Justin Baldoni and Blake?
01:29:04.000
You know, so it's like, so we can put that thing in perspective there.
01:29:13.880
If it's not the lightning rod hot button topic, what is and what are people consuming and what is that thing that we really need to tap into?
01:29:26.560
Like, I don't, I'm not sure right now, but like, there's usually, there's usually a pull in a certain direction.
01:29:35.240
When it was Trump for the election, it was obviously Trump, right?
01:29:40.760
A few weeks ago, it was definitely like Elon and his involvement in government.
01:29:58.680
No, but like, this is usually what I can tap into.
01:30:01.000
And even now, I was shocked when I went to go watch the episode.
01:30:06.880
If I go on Twitter, it's the only conversation I see on Twitter.
01:30:12.880
Well, this is the thing with the Twitter algorithm.
01:30:17.460
It's the thing with social media algorithms, which is the crazy shit is what gets the attention.
01:30:25.060
And maybe the thing we should be talking about is, is that good?
01:30:31.300
Well, I think the conversation, here's a good conversation.
01:30:33.380
How many people are letting the algorithm decide their, their opinions and how they create?
01:30:42.300
I think that's a very important, like, there's a lot of people that are like spouting off about shit on different platforms that they might not even be aware.
01:31:00.840
They start going, oh, maybe this is what I'm made to talk about.
01:31:08.580
And now you just, you were a slave to the algorithm.
01:31:12.200
And it's like one thing I talk with my guys about, which is like, we're not stupid.
01:31:17.240
We know how to just make every episode get a certain amount of things, but then it wouldn't be authentic.
01:31:22.600
And what's the point of creating online if we're not going to have an authentic opinion?
01:31:26.480
Like, just get a job, CNN, Fox, someplace, and just have the opinion of the corporation.
01:31:32.340
The cost of that is some episodes aren't going to do as well as other episodes.
01:31:43.380
You start getting ad deals and you have to deliver this many views.
01:31:46.400
And then the ad company's going, hey, why didn't that episode hit?
01:31:49.240
And you have to tell them, well, because we want to have authentic conversations.
01:31:53.680
And in order to do that, some aren't going to go that crazy.
01:31:59.700
But I think there's a lot of creation that is algorithm dependent.
01:32:06.900
And we're like taking people's advice that don't even believe what they're saying.
01:32:16.160
It comes back to what we were talking in the episode about, which is it's just business.
01:32:19.960
There are a lot of people for whom media is just business.
01:32:24.520
There's a lot of people when Israel-Palestine started that got some views off it.
01:32:40.460
Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't talk about it.
01:32:41.800
If you are in media and you're talking about what's happening in the world, you absolutely
01:32:51.340
That's, I would be, and then if you are somebody who's deeply affected by what's happening in
01:32:57.300
Israel-Palestine, I would also be wary of all the people that you support that are supporting
01:33:01.720
you because that support might go away once those views go away.
01:33:09.060
It was, you know, the trans, where, the trans debate, where if you wanted a million views,
01:33:13.520
you just got, you know, someone would come on, say men can't be women.
01:33:17.560
And what a great time that was for chicken omni.
01:33:31.240
I heard that you consider Seinfeld to be overrated.
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