In this episode of Triggetometry, we re-unveil the radical leftist group Antifa. Author of Unmasked: Inside Antifa's Radical Plan to Destroy Democracy, Andy Frieden joins us to discuss their rise in the past year, and how they are linked to the Black Lives Matter movement.
00:03:08.240They do have different ultimate agendas.
00:03:12.560Broadly, Antifa are made up of anarchist communists.
00:03:17.560So they believe that we can organize society under communism
00:03:23.120without the use of a big government or totalitarian state.
00:03:29.200So this is why when you look at the communes that they make,
00:03:32.960like communes or their autonomous zones,
00:03:34.960you look at the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone,
00:03:37.300otherwise known as CHAZ, you look at the autonomous zone they have in Portland,
00:03:40.980they will create these sort of lawless areas where they say that they don't need the state,
00:03:46.020they don't need law enforcement, they don't need any type of order that they can take care of themselves.
00:03:50.420Of course, we know they can't take care of themselves.
00:03:52.640In the case of CHAZ, we had two homicides there, several shootings.
00:03:58.140In the case of Portland, it was literally creating a war zone in the middle of a residential area in Portland.
00:04:04.340And you contrast that with BLM, which is in its theoretical underpinnings, very sort of classic revolutionary Marxists who are about sneaking into the institutions of the state and mainstreaming their Marxist agenda.
00:04:27.260So, you know, there's a very systematic attack on free markets from BLM and they're using it under the guise of racial justice.
00:04:34.340So there's a certain amount of overlap in terms of opposition to the state, particularly the United States of America, opposition to capitalism, of course, opposition and hatred, murderous hatred of law enforcement.
00:04:47.420So because of that, there's been a certain cross-pollination. And you've seen Antifa implement some of the intersectional ideology that's prevalent in BLM and also the usage of their chants, Black Lives Matter and all that.
00:05:04.540To the point now where when I describe Antifa, at least in America, I use BLM-Antifa, because I really do think that they're such linked entities.
00:05:15.080Ultimately, their ideologies will clash because one is calling for essentially a totalitarian state, BLM, whereas Antifa is calling for anarchy.
00:05:28.860Let's find out who wins that one. That would be great, wouldn't it?
00:05:31.600Yeah, that'd be very, very interesting. But, you know, we've got Antifa on one side, we've got BLM, but surely we need to take into account that there are a lot of people who march for BLM who have got no idea about Antifa, who've got no idea about, you know, these hardline Marxist views. Where do these people come in? The people who just go along and march and just want to see maybe social justice, maybe want to see black people being treated more fairly?
00:05:57.200Yeah, so I feel I don't feel happy to describe them in this way, but I would call they're being used as useful idiots, essentially. So both these movements, Antifa and BLM, use the cloak of racial justice and social justice to shield themselves from criticism.
00:06:18.440So, for example, I have spoken vocally in opposition transfer led to me being beaten in 2019 and my family threatened and myself continually subject to death threats.
00:06:34.420And their response is, how could you be against a movement that calls itself anti-fascist?
00:06:40.560If you're against anti-fascism, it means you're fascist.
00:06:43.480If you're against Black Lives Matter, that means you are against black people.
00:06:49.800So, you know, this is what makes these movements so clever.
00:06:53.340It's very, the branding of it in the slogans and all that allow a certain amount of deflection of criticism.
00:07:02.520And unfortunately, they've used that very well in that the media has not really applied a critical lens on the violent extremist rhetoric, the violent extremist ideology, and their violent extremist actions.
00:07:16.160So they've been given a free pass, essentially.
00:07:18.640So there are a lot of people on the left, I would say liberals, who obviously when they hear something like being against fascism, being against anti-black racism, being against the racist police brutality, these are things they want to be a part of.
00:07:36.620And they go out to these demonstrations and essentially are used as human shields in these larger protests that at a moment's instance turn into violent riots.
00:07:51.080And that's what happened that I witnessed myself in Portland, but other cities, the riots that happened particularly at the end of May after the death of George Floyd was ostensibly under this banner of Black Lives Matter and racial justice.
00:08:05.820But there was really no way for these protests to not be hijacked by violent extremists who did it over and over and over.
00:08:17.260And in the case of Portland, over 120 days of daily riots, every day, happening every night.
00:08:26.080It since then has been now weekly since about September.
00:08:31.320But this is an issue that's not going away. And people assumed wrongly that after the election win of Joe Biden in November, that, you know, this is the end of Antifa, you know, Democrats coming into power, we're not going to see an issue wrong.
00:08:48.260We had really bad riots in Portland and Seattle just the day after the election.
00:08:55.940You know, we were recording this just on the heels of what happened on New Year's Eve in Portland of dozens and dozens of Antifa Black Bloc rioters trying to break into a government building in downtown with hammers, using hatchets.
00:11:16.900Yeah, and, you know, BLM, whereas, you know, they chant for police officers to be killed.
00:11:24.020In the case of Portland, nobody would come out to criticize Antifa or BLM because, well,
00:11:30.860they believe that these people are fighting for a noble cause and this is the thing too these
00:11:37.280corporations these capitalist corporations who have benefited immensely under free markets are
00:11:44.880also then channeling money to many of these radical non-profit organizations that are working
00:11:52.100really to undermine society in the case of portland we have actually one antifa organization called
00:11:59.340SnackBlock, who recently got non-profit status. And they actually got $145,000 U.S. dollars grant
00:12:06.680through the federal government that was dispersed to the state of Oregon. And local officials
00:12:12.020gave $145,000 to this for ostensibly COVID relief. And then you go on their social media and you look,
00:12:19.820they're posting pictures of police officers being, drawings of them being decapitated,
00:12:24.420saying other retweeting promotional flyers for riot events earlier this year and it's like
00:12:31.900we are funding our own distractions here in the west here in liberal democratic states
00:12:39.300francis brought up the the involvement of corporations but as you explained to us the
00:12:44.720last time we had you on the show one of the biggest problems in your city in portland has
00:12:48.660been the fact that the mayor is also the police commissioner. Yes. And so until very recently,
00:12:56.380he was very much on their side, it would seem. And essentially, what I want to ask you is,
00:13:02.840how has this happened, Andy? Because, and maybe this is the Russian in me coming out, but
00:13:07.240if people wanted to burn stuff down on the streets of Moscow, it wouldn't happen for very long. Yet
00:13:14.860this has happened in America for eight months. How has it been allowed to happen? Because we've
00:13:20.900seen police officers there trying to do something about it. We've seen even federal officers, I
00:13:25.280think, coming to some of these places. Why has it been possible for these people to set up
00:13:31.280autonomous zones, like try and make a new country in the middle of Seattle? How has that been
00:13:37.460enabled and by whom? So this is what I mean when I say like it's like the acts, the consequences
00:13:44.500in mainstreaming the far left extremist ideology of BLM Antifa has real life consequences in that
00:13:51.920it's been very strategic in delegitimizing law enforcement in America to the point of where you
00:13:58.320have police departments in major cities like Portland, Seattle, New York, where they're
00:14:05.620essentially hemorrhaging. And on top of that, they're being defunded by the tens of millions.
00:14:09.820So in the case of New York City, $1 billion was slashed in their budget, with crime already skyrocketing.
00:14:17.040So there's, on one level, a lack of resources in being able to respond.
00:14:22.160And that's what happened, particularly this year in Portland, with many officers either resigning or taking early retirement from the Portland Police Department.
00:14:31.180and uh the bureau is unable to bring in uh new officers to replace what's being lost because
00:14:38.580nobody wants to go into now um what should be a noble institution policing uh when it's seen
00:14:45.420when you're demonized than when you are dogs um when you get attacked in in in some unfortunate
00:14:53.460cases um killed for political reasons so yeah there's the lack of resources and then there's
00:15:00.720also the political involvement in these calculations from things that the mayor let's say
00:15:06.800of Portland who's the police commissioner but even beyond him the city council itself
00:15:11.800they exert immense political pressure over police departments not just in Portland in any city
00:15:18.020so even though they are supposed to be separate from one another they are linked because if a
00:15:25.460police department has no political support from the city council and elected officials
00:15:29.720It will really restrict what they're able to do.
00:15:33.100So in the case of Portland, in addition to the policing issues,
00:15:39.080we also have a so-called progressive prosecutor who is elected.
00:15:45.060So in the US, our district attorneys are also known as prosecutors.
00:24:43.940You don't want to make yourself part of the story on things that you're reporting on.
00:24:47.740But for me, as I was writing about Antifa going back several years, I just found that it was extremely hard to sort of entirely remove myself in that my family's experience living through a communist revolution, going to prison camps, being persecuted entirely for political reasons.
00:25:10.780it mirrors a lot of what i'm seeing people on the american far left
00:25:18.360stating that they want to do essentially um isn't that an exaggeration andy are they really saying
00:25:27.260we want to put people in camps are they really saying we need to uh you know put someone in
00:25:33.040prison for 25 years for having the wrong political view are they really saying that is that when you
00:25:37.320embed yourself in their protest is that what they're talking about no it's not exaggeration
00:25:41.280they've killed people over political disagreements important and they tried to kill and gotten
00:25:46.200themselves killed as well people who say antifa is not a deadly movement let's look at what they've
00:25:51.120done okay in 2019 you had a man named and i write about this in the book um charles landerose this
00:25:57.800is in eugene oregon it's a small college town very left wing he shortly before going to a school
00:26:05.760and launching an attempted shooting on school resource officers.
00:26:09.180He had written anti-police stuff on his face, but kill police, kill pigs.
00:26:13.960And he was deeply involved in the anti-fo movement in Eugene.
00:26:16.880And he got killed in the process of his attack.
00:26:19.240You had, later in the year, Willem van Spransen, which is in Tacoma, Washington state.
00:26:24.440He firebombed an immigration facility and came to arms with a rifle.
00:26:30.860He got killed in the process, but blew up a car.
00:26:33.040there was connor betts in ohio who killed nine people in a mass shooting who had has had a long
00:26:42.020history of antifa activism including in being in the black block and just months ago in portland
00:26:50.200we had somebody who quote this was in his instagram manifesto i am 100 antifa following a trump
00:26:57.560supporter in downtown portland waiting around the corner ambushing him and shooting him dead
00:27:02.740right in the middle of downtown and fleeing to another state
00:27:06.460before getting killed by federal authorities.
00:27:09.240So, but Andy, those are all individual cases,
00:27:11.760which I completely, obviously very sad and shouldn't be encouraged at all.
00:27:16.220But that doesn't necessarily mean that because there's a few wackos in a movement,
00:27:50.780I mean, you just look at how they treat dissidents, so-called dissidents of people who they suspect of not being completely on their side in areas where they've claimed territory.
00:28:00.460they beat up journalists in their so-called autonomous zones you know they even had uh
00:28:06.700one of my friends and acquaintance who was recording video in the seattle autonomous zone
00:28:12.500he they saw him with the camera and they tried to pull him into an interrogation tent that they
00:28:17.900had set up there and he was literally if your little autonomous zone needs an interrogation
00:28:24.060tent might not be quite as friendly as you're pretending right yeah so his name is caitlin
00:28:29.400almeida so you can go online and look at his testimony for that but i mean police were called
00:28:34.800he was like dragged on the street literally before being escaped so you you know you don't
00:28:40.300just have to look at what they say you look at their actions they even though they say they are
00:28:45.540against governments what essentially they do want to create is a totalitarian system essentially
00:28:51.460where there's because their opposition is not just to people who say things that they disagree
00:28:59.200with they don't want you to think differently which is why they spend so much effort in getting
00:29:04.740people banned off social media so exploiting the left-wing bias that is prevalent on in big tech
00:29:12.960social media companies getting their opposition banned um getting them fired doxing them releasing
00:29:20.600information where they live uh work etc and terrorizing their opponents so i don't think
00:29:28.580You know, there's a certain amount of parallels, and yes, there are differences, obviously, with the Vietnamese communist regime from the American context.
00:29:39.820But broadly, it is about a revolutionary, far less politics, about achieving their goals by any means necessary, including violence.
00:29:51.780I think, actually, I know if they had the power, they would imprison their political opponents if they didn't kill them outright.
00:29:58.580because you just look at their actions on a small-scale level
00:30:01.540and look when they've actually had gained power temporarily in Charles
00:30:06.060or in Portland's autonomous zone, what they do to people.
00:30:10.320Have you ever been abroad and felt out of place because you didn't speak the language?
00:31:48.680Some of them do represent people who are university educated in white-collar jobs.
00:31:53.900Absolutely. And actually, the Antifa were so furious that I was publicizing these booking, public records of these booking photos from these six months of arrests in Portland because, you know, it exposed that some of them were in white collar jobs, such as being nurses, being doctors, being professors, being academics, being university students at private, expensive elite institutions.
00:32:21.000there's all that but i would say it really it includes this is what i mean this ideology does
00:32:31.080appeal to people who are do well in america and as well as people who are really vulnerable
00:32:37.420and this is kind of where my i i have a certain i don't know if compassion is right where it's
00:32:43.820sympathy for some of these people who are used as tools foot soldiers in these mass rights people
00:32:50.880who are many of them are vagrants a lot of them are dealing with mental health issues a lot of
00:32:55.900them are have gender dysphoria and they're being pulled into a ideology movement that promises them
00:33:05.400community meaning purpose belonging i mean you have a uniform you have a identity and label that
00:33:13.600you go under as a anti-fascist so-called anti-fascist and they have a lot of literature
00:33:20.160as well booklets pamphlets like if you read my book on masks you'll see that the radicalization
00:33:26.920process is really important in antifa it's a lot of brainwashing actually and it takes a lot of
00:33:31.920brainwashing to get people who go from broadly being sympathetic to some of these things let's
00:33:38.240say racial justice to eventually being one of the people who mask up and bring let's say knives or
00:33:46.020tasers or molotov cocktails and other firebombs to these riots with the intent um to kill people
00:33:53.140and this process happens um not spontaneously but through these radicalization stuff and how
00:33:59.580does it happen tell us more about that just take us through i'm a sort of this radicalizes andy
00:34:04.680yeah radicalizes into antifa live on air no but seriously so here i am i'm disaffected with
00:34:11.640society i'm very progressive in my mindset maybe i'm i've got some mental health issues i here i
00:34:17.920am i've come in and your your job is to get me to the point where i'm ready to go on a riot how does
00:34:23.540that happen so there are let's say i say in portland they have it down to an art there are
00:34:29.280the street militants and then there are other antifa groups who don't explicitly engage in
00:34:36.420street violence but they'll do things like uh community events support uh supportive like
00:34:45.000direct action where they'll do things that ostensibly look like charity work just distributing
00:34:49.600food to those in their community um protesting peacefully all of that if you go to any of these
00:34:57.420events in addition to the food and supplies that they're distributing for free they will always
00:35:03.940have tables of their booklets and it's very similar actually to i would say like a radicalization
00:35:11.100process of like the muslim brotherhood or other uh islamists or even jihadists really you introduce
00:35:18.700them to certain theories theories about why why capitalism is inherently linked to racism how it's
00:35:27.400connected to slavery and how america as protecting capitalism property free markets um is uh in
00:35:38.000imperialist state of racism that support that um upholds white supremacy like in a lot of these
00:35:45.520ideas are actually um they're in academic and intellectual and they're simplified in these
00:35:51.400booklets and pamphlets that are given out um nelly bowls for the new york reporter new york times who
00:35:57.380who went up to portland to cover some of these violent protests and riots in portland
00:36:01.120wrote about some of these booklets and pamphlets antifa were really angry about that sort of like
00:36:06.760national spotlight that are brought to it but there's very few people paying attention because
00:36:11.100if you walk by you do think it's just another table of just like things that people are handing
00:36:16.620out that actually forms a very important part in their um how they're introducing what they call
00:36:23.220radical ideas to others and in chas they have the same thing in the recent autonomous zone in
00:36:29.540portland so you know you you start building friendships these friends start introducing
00:36:34.980these extremist ideas they have gatherings and meetings in the case of road city antifa which
00:36:41.440my book uh publishes some of their documents for the first time they will actually have a
00:36:46.480a curriculum that's really kind of like a university curriculum that they'll meet weekly
00:36:51.320in a secret place they'll have a set of literature they and they each week is supposed to read they'll
00:36:57.880discuss it um and what are some of the central themes so i've come i've got a pamphlet i've got
00:37:03.740my sandwich i've got my pamphlet i'm like okay well yeah there are problems with capitalism maybe
00:37:08.320it's because america is inherently racist or whatever now i've come to the meeting for the
00:37:13.040first time what what are you telling me to get me into that the main themes or the main points of
00:37:18.800their radical ideas that they're trying to brainwash people into believing is that
00:37:24.800non-violence empowers the state and the state enforces fascism, that property rights is linked
00:37:36.640to racism, linked to a system of white supremacy. So these two things, hatred of a nation and hatred
00:37:43.380of property rights those are probably the two main ideas and they have a particular hatred for
00:37:50.120law enforcement because they view law enforcement well as the literal enforcers of the rules of the
00:37:57.520state if the state is fascist they are then the fascist boots on the ground enforcing the fascist
00:38:02.700laws so this whole using black lives matter in opposition to police is just it's it's been a
00:38:09.760very convenient and perfect way for them to make their really extreme ideas palatable to a wider
00:38:15.680public. And they have immense success. I mean, look at the calls to defund and abolish police
00:38:22.720happening in city councils across America. And Andy, they don't also, it's not just a process
00:38:28.380of indoctrination mentally, but also physically. They get taught how to fight. They get taught how
00:38:33.300to various other things as well. Could you delve into that for us?
00:38:37.300So the really organized militant Antifa groups are extremely secretive because, I mean, they explicitly, they have a membership process and in all intents and purposes, they are a gang and they will plan out criminal violent activity.
00:38:56.440So they keep all the activities secret. And in a press and media who, unfortunately, are very not curious, have not dived into trying to uncover really how they organize.
00:39:11.220I mean, in my book, I was able to acquire the documentation from the oldest American Antifa group, which is Rose City Antifa.
00:39:18.740Now, absolutely, if you look at the documentations, the emails to one another, it completely blows over this claim that Antifa doesn't exist as an organization, that they're not organized.
00:39:33.780I mean, the thing is, Antifa is not one entity.
00:47:44.680But they've carefully have now switched the enemy from Trump to law enforcement.
00:47:51.640And they've been successful in bringing out people there.
00:47:54.620So, you know, all it really takes is just a very simple video of some unfortunate incident that is then taken out of context to mobilize not just thousands, but tens of thousands of people, not just in my country, but your country as well, and other countries around the world.
00:48:13.320That's how effective their messaging has been.
00:48:15.960And although Biden is a more moderate Democrat, you look at the people who have influence in the Democrat Party, people like AOC, people like Ilhan Omar, the radicals, people who are just state representatives in Congress, one of many.
00:48:39.500but they have such an outsizing large influence on the party that their messaging will is going
00:48:49.760to play into the decisions of the dnc in my opinion in my predictions and andy how do we
00:48:56.820defeat them so you've we've explained it we've looked at the type of people who are involved in
00:49:03.180this ideology the fact that they're anarchists that they want chaos that they thrive on this
00:49:07.660obviously it is not in our interest or anybody's interest that these people are successful
00:49:13.140so how do we defeat number one the group and number two the ideology
00:49:16.640I'll start for the easier of the two defeating the movement itself means is essentially doing
00:49:27.140what's been done in the past so how law enforcement were able in the U.S. to end
00:49:32.380the terrorism far-left communist revolutionaries in the 70s were to arrest prosecute in jail those
00:49:43.160who were involved in the criminal activities and that hugely disrupted their networks as well
00:49:49.380unfortunately all these people have been released from prison and have been reincorporated into
00:49:56.120left-wing activism and their past actions people just look over their past criminal actions
00:50:04.400so there's that you don't necessarily need new laws although i think let's say in your country
00:50:13.740you have laws that prescribe certain organizations and groups that are applied to jihadist groups
00:50:21.220for example and far-right groups i think that should be applied to far-left groups
00:50:25.880in america we don't have those type of laws because of how strong our first amendment is
00:50:32.140you know anything that could be interpreted as um persecuting people for their beliefs even if
00:50:40.480there are violent extremist beliefs you can have those radical beliefs it's protected by the first
00:50:46.380amendment that's why it's not it's not illegal to be a member of a neo-nazi group it's not
00:50:52.300illegal to be a member of a violent antifa group so what needs to happen is the rioters are being
00:51:01.800arrested though they're not being held accountable so this is an issue with prosecutors being elected
00:51:09.140and i'm not quite sure what the solution would be but obviously it means people waking up and
00:51:14.680realizing that going soft on rioters just because they say they're doing it in the noble cause like
00:51:22.860that that this really requires a paradigm shift i think in the american mind that so that we elect
00:51:31.280prosecutors who actually uphold the law and do you think it's a question of education andy the
00:51:36.980fact that most americans don't know about communism like we touched on before you know they haven't
00:51:41.660been educated about it, the dangers and the evils of the far left? Yes, absolutely. There's just not
00:51:47.580a lot of knowledge. People aren't really aware that we had far left communist Marxist cells in
00:51:55.480the 70s that were doing kidnappings and bank robberies and killing law enforcement and carrying
00:52:00.960out bombing attacks. They just don't know about that. Whereas, you know, anytime you ask them
00:53:23.240The problem reinforced by the media is that it's wrong to criticize both the far left and the far right in the same breath because they can't be compared because the far left, even if they are violent, they are doing it for racial justice, for equity.
00:53:43.420that, I mean, you know, you'd go down that path of thinking
00:53:47.840the rational conclusion is it does lead to violent anti-folk extremism
00:53:52.220or any other type of Marxist terrorism
00:53:54.980because it's like, well, it's for this cause, right?
01:01:15.920If you think the state is fascist, and if you think property rights are fascism, then evicting someone from a property where they're squatting is fascism under that definition.
01:01:26.360To normal people, it makes no sense, of course.
01:01:28.800But as Francis said earlier, I think a lot of people simply don't know what they get involved with.
01:01:33.500To a lot of people, all of this stuff is simply about ensuring justice and equality.
01:01:37.960and those of us who try and sort of point out