TRIGGERnometry - Ariel Pink：＂I Lost My Career for Attending Peaceful Trump Rally＂

00:00:00.500 You went to a peaceful protest on January the 6th,

00:00:05.000 which was not connected to the riot.

00:00:06.800 That's right. You weren't involved in that.

00:00:08.200 And that was the moment when things went south.

00:00:12.000 There was hundreds of articles, I think,

00:00:15.000 in papers across the globe that placed me in the headlines

00:00:20.000 at the scene of this crazy event,

00:00:24.000 which I don't support.

00:00:26.000 I wouldn't storm the Capitol. I'm not a idiot. 0.79

00:00:29.000 My label said, we won't be working with Ariel Pink anymore

00:00:34.000 from here on out.

00:00:35.000 I pretty much found out that way.

00:00:37.000 I believe that there was an actually,

00:00:39.000 there was a behind the scenes,

00:00:41.000 there was actually an agreement behind the elitist,

00:00:46.000 the moneyed interests that basically a round table that said,

00:00:50.000 we will not allow any kind of positive speaking of Donald Trump.

00:00:57.000 Do you think a lot of the strength that you're feeling

00:01:00.000 is because you lament an America that no longer exists?

00:01:04.000 Yeah, and I lament a career that no longer exists as well.

00:01:08.000 I'm just trying to explain why I think they would want to destroy someone like Donald Trump.

00:01:11.000 Of course, because they've been brainwashed, because they don't believe in countries,

00:01:15.000 because they don't believe in money, because they don't believe in borders,

00:01:18.000 because they want to destroy the, they don't believe in a country.

00:01:22.000 Those people should not be eligible to be president.

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00:01:41.000 My old wallet was massive.

00:01:43.000 So it brought all the ladies to the yard, 1.00

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00:02:45.000 Hello and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster.

00:02:49.000 I'm Constantine Kishin.

00:02:50.000 And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations,

00:02:53.000 honest conversations with fascinating people.

00:02:56.000 Our brilliant guest today is an iconic musician

00:02:58.000 whose career took a dramatic turn

00:03:00.000 where he attended a peaceful rally in support of President Trump

00:03:04.000 on January the 6th.

00:03:05.000 He was not involved in the riot in the capital,

00:03:07.000 but his career took a dramatic turn.

00:03:09.000 Anyway, Ariel Pink, welcome to Trigonometry.

00:03:12.000 Thanks for having me.

00:03:13.000 I got your intro right.

00:03:15.000 I think the fact we got in there,

00:03:16.000 we're going to talk about all of that before we do.

00:03:18.000 Tell our audience who may be familiar with the work,

00:03:21.000 but many won't be.

00:03:22.000 Who are you?

00:03:23.000 How are you?

00:03:24.000 Where you are?

00:03:25.000 What has been the journey through life that leads you here to sit

00:03:27.000 and talk to us about this?

00:03:29.000 Well, I'm an indie musician.

00:03:34.000 Indie, I guess, yeah, I started in the 90s,

00:03:40.000 but I started in earnest professionally in 2004,

00:03:44.000 and I've had a very steady sort of ascent.

00:03:51.000 It's just been very slow, no billboard hits or anything like that.

00:03:55.000 Yeah, it's been a blessing to be able to do what I love to do,

00:04:03.000 and I haven't had to sell my soul or anything like that.

00:04:09.000 I mean, you're being uncharacteristically modest for an American as well

00:04:12.000 in that you've collaborated with some incredible people.

00:04:15.000 You're described as the godfather of several genres of music.

00:04:18.000 Like, you've had a pretty stellar career.

00:04:21.000 I mean, yeah, but I definitely don't see it that way.

00:04:27.000 I mean, I see it as a privilege to work with these people,

00:04:30.000 and I just think of myself as being a very lucky person,

00:04:34.000 which is why I was a patriot in the first place.

00:04:38.000 If I could make it in my own little way, I feel like everybody can.

00:04:45.000 And you did make it, and you were doing really well.

00:04:48.000 I made it enough, but I didn't make it good enough to get myself

00:04:51.000 out of the mess that I found myself in.

00:04:53.000 Right.

00:04:54.000 But, yeah, so my career was going swimmingly, you know,

00:05:01.000 with the odd hiccup and, you know, season of bad press here and there.

00:05:07.000 I mean, there's been haters since the beginning.

00:05:09.000 That's part and parcel of my whole appeal is sort of like just,

00:05:13.000 people just didn't like me since the beginning.

00:05:16.000 That's perfectly fine because I wasn't made to,

00:05:19.000 I wasn't an acquired taste, I suppose.

00:05:22.000 But, yeah, nobody was ever, you know, felt,

00:05:27.000 you were never going to make a lot of friends by being an Aero Pink fan.

00:05:31.000 I think it sort of like, you know, appealed to individuals in their groups,

00:05:35.000 in their friend groups, and it was always like, you know,

00:05:37.000 oh, do you like that guy?

00:05:39.000 You know, that's like, that's the friend,

00:05:41.000 and that's the one person in the friend group who likes that, you know,

00:05:44.000 and maybe they'd see some other people that are like them

00:05:46.000 at the concerts or something like that.

00:05:48.000 I don't know.

00:05:49.000 It's hard for me to like, you know, wrap my brain around what my appeal is

00:05:54.000 and who's listening and who isn't and all that kind of stuff.

00:05:58.000 So I kind of don't like to even think about that.

00:06:02.000 Well, whoever it is that these people who like your stuff.

00:06:06.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:06:07.000 Irrespective of that, you had a great career.

00:06:09.000 Yeah.

00:06:10.000 And we'll talk about President Trump

00:06:12.000 and why you supported him and all of that.

00:06:16.000 The thing that I want to get to quite quickly is

00:06:19.000 you went to a peaceful protest on January the 6th,

00:06:25.000 which was not connected to the riot.

00:06:27.000 That's right.

00:06:28.000 You weren't involved in that.

00:06:29.000 And that was the moment when things went south.

00:06:33.000 Right.

00:06:34.000 Well, I mean, for me, they went south the next morning.

00:06:38.000 Yeah.

00:06:39.000 I imagine so.

00:06:40.000 So what happened?

00:06:41.000 Tell us.

00:06:42.000 Yeah.

00:06:43.000 I hopped on a flight last minute with my buddy and fellow musician, John Mouse.

00:06:50.000 We both wanted to go show our support.

00:06:54.000 I guess there seemed to be a feeling that we should go.

00:06:57.000 Cause we, cause, well, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna speak for him,

00:07:01.000 but I was definitely pro-Trump.

00:07:04.000 And...

00:07:05.000 Why were you pro-Trump?

00:07:07.000 What?

00:07:08.000 Why were you pro-Trump, Ariel?

00:07:09.000 Well, that's, that's, do you want me to get there?

00:07:11.000 Yeah.

00:07:12.000 Well, let's get to that in a second.

00:07:13.000 I think we should carry on.

00:07:14.000 Yeah.

00:07:15.000 So, so I, so we, we got there and, um, you know, 9 a.m. on the day of the rally,

00:07:21.000 which is what we were there for, uh, was basically like a concert, basically.

00:07:25.000 Like, you know, with, with, uh, with queue lines and everything like that, you know,

00:07:29.000 at the Capitol.

00:07:30.000 It was very structured.

00:07:31.000 Yeah.

00:07:32.000 There was, there was security there, but there was also a, a, a, you know,

00:07:36.000 more or less free for all of, you know, just basically like gaggle of people.

00:07:40.000 You know, there's a 500,000 people or something like that.

00:07:42.000 I don't even know how many people were there, but it looked like it was a lot.

00:07:45.000 And, uh, it was a very, very, um, energetic, uh, not unruly, uh, crowd of people, you know,

00:07:55.000 mostly white, all that kind of stuff.

00:07:57.000 But there's like, you know, the odd, there's lots of people there, but I'm just giving my

00:08:01.000 impressions of it.

00:08:02.000 So, um, uh, but it was, it was, it was, uh, people that were basically, um, that liked

00:08:08.000 him a lot, like we needed, like I did.

00:08:11.000 And so, uh, it was cool to see what I noticed was that there weren't any, um, there weren't

00:08:17.000 any, like, uh, news vans or anything like that, or any reporters at that event.

00:08:24.000 Really.

00:08:25.000 There were some in the, in the, uh, the bleachers where they were kind of like, you know, filming

00:08:31.000 him, but, but there was no, there's no, uh, journalists or anything like that, you know,

00:08:36.000 on the scene, you know, kind of like, you know, there was no like bands on the lawn or

00:08:40.000 like, you know, basically people like reporting on it.

00:08:42.000 So I thought it was, I thought that was very strange and I made a mental note of it.

00:08:47.000 Uh, otherwise it just seemed like it was, you know, just a huge population of people.

00:08:53.000 It was like a lot of people there that were going from the White House lawn all the way

00:08:59.000 past the Washington monument and just, just didn't, just didn't mass.

00:09:05.000 And, um, that was done at around noon, I think is when, when he was done.

00:09:12.000 And I said that, you know, I stuck around the entire time I got lost from John and my

00:09:18.000 friends, uh, Alex Lee Moyer.

00:09:21.000 Uh, so I was basically like, you know, kind of like half-heartedly listening to his speech

00:09:25.000 when he gave it.

00:09:26.000 And it was kind of like a, there was like a multi-tiered event.

00:09:29.000 It was like a, you know, like there was an opener.

00:09:31.000 There was a, there was a, Donald Jr. was, was performing that day too.

00:09:35.000 And, uh, and, uh, so it was Giuliani and all this kind of stuff.

00:09:39.000 And it seemed like it was like a big, uh, a big rah, rah, rah fest.

00:09:42.000 You know, it was almost like, you know, almost, uh, almost childish, childishly, uh, uh, jubilant

00:09:50.000 in that kind of sense.

00:09:51.000 Um, and, um, and there was, there was talk that people were going to go, you know, afterwards

00:09:57.000 or, or at some point they were going to go to the Capitol and there was going to be some

00:10:01.000 sort of like other protest at some point, which I, to me, it was like, I saw the, I already

00:10:06.000 came, I say, came to see the main show.

00:10:08.000 Like I already saw it.

00:10:09.000 I can go home now.

00:10:10.000 I mean, I don't, I don't need to go to a protest.

00:10:11.000 That's boring.

00:10:12.000 Yeah.

00:10:13.000 So, so, um, afterward, after, after this ended, uh, we went to the hotel, uh, to meet

00:10:19.000 it, you know, sort of rendezvous with all my, all the people that I wanted to see.

00:10:24.000 We were ended up in a hotel room.

00:10:26.000 We took a few shots of us just hanging around and hanging out in the, in the hotel room.

00:10:33.000 And, uh, and I pretty much saw them off, you know, I said, I'm going to stay back.

00:10:39.000 You guys, I mean, I'm just, I'm going to, I'm kind of tired.

00:10:41.000 I'm just, my day's done.

00:10:43.000 Uh, I can die now happy, you know?

00:10:46.000 Um, and, uh, and so, yes, then I, you know, I, I, I quickly, you know, shuffled off to bed.

00:10:55.000 Uh, they went out, they came back, they woke me up.

00:10:59.000 I said, how'd it go guys?

00:11:01.000 And then they're just like, oh, it was cool.

00:11:03.000 It was cool.

00:11:04.000 You know, some people got in or whatever.

00:11:06.000 I was just like, okay, great.

00:11:07.000 I didn't, I didn't miss anything.

00:11:08.000 Thank goodness.

00:11:09.000 That's why I knew it was bad.

00:11:12.000 But there was no, there was no indication that there was any kind of, uh, I didn't,

00:11:17.000 I wasn't even aware of any kind of, uh, uh, uh, chaotic exchange or anything or anything

00:11:24.000 like that was out of the ordinary.

00:11:26.000 The rest of the day I spent, uh, you know, trying to hail a cab, you know, back to the

00:11:32.000 Airbnb with, with John.

00:11:34.000 And we were just kind of like ended up just walking the whole way, just walking through

00:11:38.000 town.

00:11:39.000 There was no, there was no, uh, feeling of, uh, of emergency or any kind of, uh, uh, just,

00:11:48.000 you know, chaos or anything like that on the streets.

00:11:50.000 It was just basically normal day.

00:11:53.000 So, yeah, so, uh, so then we, we went back to the, uh, to the Airbnb and, um, you know,

00:11:59.000 we didn't really, we, I can't even remember what we did.

00:12:02.000 We just basically turned on the TV and just kind of like, you know, they hadn't, keep in

00:12:06.000 mind, they hadn't called the, but Mike Pence hadn't called the, uh, the, uh, election yet.

00:12:13.000 You know, he basically hadn't called the count or whatever, confirmed it or anything.

00:12:17.000 So, so there was no reason to suspect that there was any kind of, I wouldn't have even,

00:12:24.000 it occurred to me that there would be a coup because it was too early for that.

00:12:28.000 You know, uh, I thought that, that, that might happen.

00:12:31.000 Maybe I would imagine after something was called in, you know, against, you know, in, if, if,

00:12:40.000 if the election is called in favor of Biden and then people then, then you would imagine that.

00:12:44.000 Yeah.

00:12:45.000 I mean, maybe they were holding, maybe people were holding onto a chance that maybe like

00:12:48.000 he wasn't going to call it like that way.

00:12:49.000 So I wouldn't expect them to, to riot before him, you know?

00:12:53.000 Right.

00:12:54.000 Uh, so, um, that night, um, I think, uh, I got, uh, a few tweets, uh, or direct DMs sent to me.

00:13:04.000 And, uh, it was the first stirring of what was to come, I suppose, which I didn't even understand

00:13:11.000 was really the case.

00:13:12.000 I mean, I guess there was like somebody that like, uh, probably fancied themselves a reporter

00:13:17.000 for, you know, from Italy or from variety.

00:13:21.000 I don't even know where they are, where they're from, but, but they were just like,

00:13:24.000 what are you doing there?

00:13:25.000 Are, you know, are you there for real?

00:13:28.000 And like, I thought it was like, it was like word got out.

00:13:31.000 Well, it's weird.

00:13:32.000 Weird as well.

00:13:33.000 I didn't get one sighting on the street and there's nobody recognized me.

00:13:36.000 And I didn't feel like I was worthy of being recognized among these people.

00:13:41.000 So, um, so I, I very happily just like, I said, yeah, I'm here to support the president

00:13:47.000 blah, blah, blah.

00:13:48.000 Now, little did I know that that was, that was what was, what had been stirring and what

00:13:54.000 the, the, the narrative that had been sort of, uh, that had sort of taken, taken shape

00:13:59.000 in the mainstream media.

00:14:01.000 And it really, I think it really happened overnight really.

00:14:06.000 And, uh, was, uh, that this was an insurrection and that this was like a, a, a disaster of the

00:14:15.000 dark, you know, of the biggest proportions known imaginable.

00:14:18.000 I didn't even know that they were referring to anything that happened at the Capitol.

00:14:22.000 I thought like, you know, like I, I wouldn't have said I was, yeah, I'm there.

00:14:26.000 Yeah.

00:14:27.000 I was there, you know, like, I mean, it was just, it seemed like it was just so leading

00:14:29.000 that the questions were just like, why are you there?

00:14:31.000 I'm like, I'm in DC to show my support for the president.

00:14:34.000 Blah, blah, blah.

00:14:35.000 It just sounded like I was just basically like, you know, just, just standing, you know,

00:14:40.000 like piling.

00:14:41.000 Uh, but, uh, but yeah, no, I mean, uh, I didn't even know until 7am the next morning,

00:14:51.000 the, you know, there was hundreds of articles, I think in papers across the globe that placed

00:15:00.000 me in the headlines at, you know, at the, at the scene of this, this crazy event, which

00:15:07.000 I don't support it.

00:15:08.000 You know, I don't, I don't, I wouldn't storm the Capitol. 0.97

00:15:10.000 I'm like, I'm not an idiot.

00:15:13.000 Uh, but anyway, um, but you know, I, you know, and I, and I feel for the people that actually 0.75

00:15:20.000 just, you know, got, got sucked into it.

00:15:23.000 I mean, it doesn't take that many people to just sort of like, you know, do something,

00:15:27.000 start something.

00:15:28.000 And then a bunch of people just basically follow suit, you know?

00:15:31.000 So I, I feel like it's, you know, it's, it's a shame that there's a, that there, there's

00:15:36.000 people that, uh, that have been sitting there in jail for, for as long as I have, uh, without

00:15:41.000 any kind of, uh, real trial.

00:15:44.000 But anyway, um, so yeah, so then, so the next morning I was, uh, you know, uh, texting

00:15:54.000 with my, uh, record label and they're just like, you know, they're like, I'm so pissed.

00:15:59.000 What are you, why didn't you tell us?

00:16:02.000 And I mean, I'm just kind of like, why didn't I tell you what, what are you talking about?

00:16:07.000 And they're like, you could have told us, you could have told us that you were going.

00:16:12.000 And I'm just like, I mean, it still wasn't clear to me what the, what the whole thing

00:16:17.000 was.

00:16:18.000 I wasn't like listening to, to the mainstream media.

00:16:21.000 I was just getting my stuff together and about to leave LA.

00:16:24.000 Sorry to interrupt.

00:16:25.000 Uh, I'm really interested in everything you're saying.

00:16:28.000 A lot of our audience would be quite politically, uh, they'd consume a lot of media.

00:16:33.000 They'd be aware of what's going on in politics.

00:16:35.000 What you're saying about this part may seem almost beyond belief that somebody wouldn't

00:16:41.000 realize how significant that was, but you are not actually that interested in politics,

00:16:46.000 are you?

00:16:47.000 I'm not a politically, no, not at all.

00:16:49.000 I've never, I've never voted.

00:16:50.000 Uh, this is the, the only election that I ever tried to vote for, vote in was, well,

00:16:56.000 I, there's two, there's, uh, I think it was, uh, Nader.

00:17:02.000 Ralf Nader.

00:17:03.000 Ralf Nader.

00:17:04.000 Ralf Nader.

00:17:05.000 Ralf Nader.

00:17:06.000 Ralf Nader.

00:17:07.000 I voted for him.

00:17:08.000 Never voted for anybody after that.

00:17:09.000 So, and then, uh, and then, yeah, and then I voted in 2020.

00:17:12.000 Uh, but, uh, but I didn't vote in 2020.

00:17:15.000 So you were genuinely unaware that you go, you going to a Trump, even a Trump rally would

00:17:21.000 actually, because forget about the quote unquote insurrection.

00:17:25.000 There are a lot of people to whom attending a Trump rally for a musician would be seen

00:17:31.000 as controversial.

00:17:32.000 Oh, and, and I mean, but I don't hang out with those people.

00:17:35.000 I mean, as far as I know, I mean, I mean, I mean like, you know, controversy.

00:17:39.000 Yeah.

00:17:40.000 I'm just a little surprised that you were surprised that your label would, would, would, would text

00:17:44.000 you that.

00:17:45.000 Well, I'm surprised because not two days prior to that, like, you know, we were, we were

00:17:50.000 talking, uh, I mean, these guys are people that, that know me, supported me, had my back.

00:17:57.000 I've been pro Trump, uh, in, I was never shy about it.

00:18:02.000 Although I think people probably thought I was trolling at first.

00:18:05.000 Um, you know, and people don't take me seriously when I say anything really.

00:18:09.000 So, uh, which is fair enough.

00:18:11.000 Um, um, but, uh, but really it was, uh, you know, we, we had spoken not, not a week prior

00:18:19.000 to, to, to, to my going there and, and they had given me the reassurance that they, you

00:18:26.000 know, that they would never have any issue with my right, my freedom to actually vote

00:18:32.000 for the guy.

00:18:33.000 You know, we can disagree on it and all that kind of stuff.

00:18:35.000 And we, we, it was, it was totally civil.

00:18:37.000 There was never any kind of like, you know, we never were at blows with each other.

00:18:40.000 I mean, I don't, I don't believe in that.

00:18:42.000 I was just, you know, just call me a contrary.

00:18:45.000 You know, I have my reasons for why I voted for him and I should be able to do that.

00:18:48.000 Even if I have no reason to vote for him, that's pretty much how I feel about it.

00:18:52.000 Fair enough.

00:18:53.000 So keep going.

00:18:54.000 So, so, so, but all of a sudden they were kind of like, uh, they had, they had, uh, the,

00:19:00.000 the, the tone changed and, and it was like, I had done some extremely bad thing.

00:19:06.000 And, uh, it was a huge misstep.

00:19:08.000 Basically they got inundated with the cancel mob and they basically were had to field it

00:19:14.000 and they, you know, they, they, they were so angry about it that they had to basically

00:19:20.000 find an, you know, an outlet or they had to blame it on somebody.

00:19:24.000 And they think that I, you know, the, the best person to point to was me because it was,

00:19:30.000 I was the headline.

00:19:32.000 So obviously like I must've like, you know, tripped their wires and basically done something

00:19:37.000 to, uh, to invoke the wrath.

00:19:39.000 And that's, that's, you know, it was a big wrath and I, I couldn't have been more, uh,

00:19:45.000 unaware of it.

00:19:46.000 So, um, from my perspective, it was very kind of, oh, well, you guys are, you guys are low

00:19:54.000 lives.

00:19:55.000 If you, if you think, I mean, why don't you call me?

00:19:57.000 Why don't you talk about it?

00:19:58.000 Why don't you ask me what's going on?

00:19:59.000 What happened?

00:20:00.000 You know, what happened?

00:20:01.000 You know, they didn't even bother doing that.

00:20:03.000 They basically were immediately down my throat and, and then, and then not just them, but

00:20:09.000 my friends, every literally everybody that I, that I had in my circle, who was basically,

00:20:15.000 you know, who, who knows my feelings, mind you, and they, they'd never given me any indication

00:20:20.000 that, that, that politics would ever be a sticking point.

00:20:25.000 So there's no reason for me to actually, in my mind, there's no, there's, there's nothing

00:20:31.000 to, to, you know, if people want to say like, oh, how could you not know?

00:20:34.000 And how could you think that like, it was okay to vote for this guy?

00:20:38.000 Well, nobody that I know was ever telling me otherwise.

00:20:42.000 Nobody was just telling me that like, you know, our friendship was, was on the, on the rocks

00:20:45.000 because of it.

00:20:46.000 And, uh, in fact, I've, I had nothing but enthusiastic people that thought, you know,

00:20:51.000 that, that, that were mildly amused by it.

00:20:53.000 Um, and I, for all I knew that they felt the same way or not, you know, but I was, I was

00:20:58.000 just used to, I was happy with, with the fact that like I was the only person in Hollywood

00:21:03.000 that pretty much was outwardly pro-Trump.

00:21:07.000 That, that, that, that was pretty amusing and a pretty, uh, pretty strange.

00:21:12.000 I mean, I feel like I'm like more famous for that than anything I've ever done in my career,

00:21:17.000 which is odd.

00:21:18.000 It's not, you know, I, I've grown up in Hollywood and, and there's always some, some conservatives

00:21:25.000 and some, some, uh, there's always like, you know, a few Republicans in, in, in Hollywood

00:21:31.000 that, you know, but it didn't seem to matter in the past.

00:21:34.000 So, so people didn't, didn't have to be secretive about it.

00:21:38.000 And, um, there was, you just, you just didn't know what people really, who they voted for,

00:21:43.000 but it really didn't matter because it's one or the other and we got along.

00:21:48.000 It was never a problem.

00:21:49.000 So for me, I didn't, you know, I, I, there was something unique about, about the environment

00:21:58.000 or the, the sort of the cultural climate that, that was, that made me want to actually

00:22:05.000 vote this time.

00:22:06.000 So it was obviously something that I was aware of that, you know, like there was just,

00:22:11.000 there seemed to be a very, um, a psychology that was descending on people that I knew that

00:22:20.000 I felt like I needed to, you know, I needed to, to do something about or like stand up in

00:22:26.000 some sort of way, uh, and say something about, because I didn't like cancel culture.

00:22:32.000 I didn't like what it was doing to people that I knew.

00:22:35.000 Uh, and, and I didn't like the, the, the way it made everybody so feeble and almost didn't,

00:22:43.000 it made everybody, uh, a passive enabler by, by virtue of the fact that like nobody could

00:22:50.000 do anything about it.

00:22:51.000 So basically everybody just sort of folded to it.

00:22:54.000 And so, and I thought that this was a very weird phenomenon because I, it seemed to me

00:22:59.000 that it was almost illegal in some sort of sense.

00:23:02.000 Like it, it, I'm surprised it never happened prior to that.

00:23:06.000 It just seems like, you know, why didn't this come up any, at any other time in my life?

00:23:13.000 And I feel like we've had protections, uh, in place to, to guard against that in the past.

00:23:19.000 And somehow those protections actually got like, got stamped out or ignored and are not

00:23:25.000 being exploited by, by, I think it's just, it's kind of too big to fail kind of mindset.

00:23:32.000 That's basically like taken over everything and it's taken over the legal system too.

00:23:36.000 Well, I know Francis wants to ask you about Trump and all of this other stuff, but just

00:23:40.000 to wrap up this part of the story, January the 7th, 2021, you wake up, you have these

00:23:45.000 conversations with your label.

00:23:47.000 How quickly do you then find that you basically don't have a career anymore?

00:23:51.000 Uh, within 24 hours I, I got, uh, I saw that there was a statement that went out on, um,

00:23:59.000 Instagram that said, uh, you know, my label said, uh, um,

00:24:05.000 we won't be working with, uh, Ariel Pink, AKA Ariel Rosenberg anymore from here on out.

00:24:13.000 So, so I, uh, I pretty much found out that way.

00:24:17.000 Wow.

00:24:18.000 And, uh, without, without, without a phone call, without anything.

00:24:21.000 And, uh, and from there that sort of, you know, that sort of made the whole issue of

00:24:25.000 whether I was, whether I was or wasn't at the insurrection, a moot point because basically

00:24:32.000 it confirmed it in the minds of everybody.

00:24:35.000 And so that was when, you know, essentially that, that became a viral, uh, uh, article

00:24:41.000 in itself is like, oh, he gets dropped.

00:24:43.000 And very quickly that sort of, it sort of gave the green light to every, every troll

00:24:51.000 and their mother to basically come out after me. 0.95

00:24:53.000 And, uh, it basically put me on the receiving end of death threats and the likes of which

00:24:59.000 I've, you know, I'd never experienced before.

00:25:01.000 And, and, and hatred that, that was just, that was unleashed.

00:25:07.000 Um, of course I, you know, it was, it was unleashed on, on members of my family.

00:25:12.000 It was unleashed on my, on those closest to me.

00:25:15.000 Everyone that was in my circle ran for the hills.

00:25:18.000 I mean, I mean, I mean, I've made new friends of, and I have a wife and child now and people

00:25:26.000 know me now, uh, she stuck by me, but, but, uh, but, but very few people, uh, stuck by me.

00:25:35.000 And it's not just, it's not just on, uh, on, uh, political lines.

00:25:40.000 Like, you know, I haven't really spoken that much to my buddy who I went to, uh, to the rally with.

00:25:49.000 So, I mean, he, they all got scared.

00:25:52.000 They all, I mean, they didn't want to get their, my stink on them.

00:25:54.000 I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's assassination by association.

00:25:58.000 So that's what happens.

00:26:00.000 Everybody's basically like, you know, running for cover.

00:26:03.000 Well, the guys you went to the rally with distance yourself, themselves from you.

00:26:09.000 Right. They didn't, they, they were scared that they're, they're gonna, they might have a, I mean, I'm, I'm guessing that this is, they were scared.

00:26:17.000 They were scared that they didn't want to have people, the FBI out their doorstep.

00:26:20.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:26:21.000 I mean, they, they, I mean, he was actually at the thing and arguably, arguably he, he's one of the reasons that like, you know, that they assumed that I was there because he did a selfie or something like that and posted that.

00:26:38.000 And then they saw that they didn't, they knew because of the photographs in the hotel room, they put two and two together.

00:26:44.000 They assumed that there was no eyewitnesses saying that I was there.

00:26:48.000 That's the thing. Okay. So, so they just, the reporting on it basically took it.

00:26:54.000 Everybody was basically making up these things because they needed to make them up.

00:26:59.000 And this is the, this is the feeling that I've been getting from, chiefly from the left, the left wing media for quite some time now.

00:27:07.000 I think they've, they still do it egregiously.

00:27:10.000 I mean, you know, I, I'm sure the right wing media, I'm sure Fox News does it too, but less so, I think.

00:27:20.000 But, but there's, there seems to be a, they don't care about the facts anymore.

00:27:24.000 And they're expecting me to like actually believe that they can actually, that they, they could be, they can actually be accountable for things.

00:27:32.000 I mean, I mean, it would make a big, it's a, it's an important distinction.

00:27:36.000 If I wasn't there, if I wasn't there and I wasn't attending and I wasn't part of the most, you know, the most, the darkest day in the history of the United States, which is what Biden says that it was.

00:27:49.000 Okay. Like more like since the civil war.

00:27:52.000 Don't worry about it. He's forgotten about it already.

00:27:54.000 No, but everybody's, but everybody forgets it.

00:27:56.000 I mean, he's, he's, he's not forgotten about it.

00:27:58.000 His, he came out like the Darth Maul in the, in the latest thing, you know, saying that, that MAGA extremists, you know, not, not, he's not even, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's unifying.

00:28:11.000 He's saying, he's like, he's like, Republicans are good. Republicans are okay now, but like, it's the MAGA extremists.

00:28:18.000 And I mean, that's, when you say that, that's, what do you, what does that, what is that, what are you, what are you setting up?

00:28:26.000 What do you, what do you, what do you got up down, up your sleeve? What are you saying?

00:28:29.000 What are you saying? And, and I've seen the smear campaign that they've done over the past, I mean, they haven't, they haven't repatriated anybody, they haven't gotten on any, they haven't unified the country.

00:28:40.000 The country, he's supposed to, you know, supposed to unify the country, but he's only, only stigmatized and ostracized, as far as I can tell.

00:28:51.000 Um, you would have thought that by now, my friends would have, came to their senses, and, uh, realized that, you know, the coast is clear, and maybe like, you know, they flinched or something like that.

00:29:02.000 And it would come back and say, like, sorry, we weren't there for you, blah, blah, blah.

00:29:07.000 But we know that that's not the way the world works, and, and there's probably a lot of shame there, which I'm, or maybe there's just still a lot of anger from them.

00:29:18.000 A lot of them probably have, like, have to convince themselves that I did something to, to provoke their, uh, their, their distance and their, you know, to get, to make them weary of ever talking to me again, so.

00:29:37.000 And I know for a fact that there's certain, certain people that I know that were just, yeah, they kind of like, some of them did, you know, they had to basically do some sort of social thing.

00:29:46.780 They had to go onto Twitter, and by virtue of the fact that they were associated with me and known to be associated with me, they had to, in order to, like, you know, save face or, like, to even get back in the good graces of their, their circles,

00:30:03.740 they had to make some sort of gesture, like, you know, like, it's so sad to see Ariel go down this path.

00:30:12.340 I knew the drugs were, you know, were, I told, I, I knew that he was going down the terrible path, and the drugs have just gotten to him.

00:30:19.420 He needs to go back home and take a, you know, and, and, and reassess his life, and I hope this, this is a wake-up call for him.

00:30:26.740 So, Ariel, why is it that, um, now, the very famous Hollywood actress and star, Kirstie Alley, passed away a couple of days ago now, and she made,

00:30:37.160 Oh, I didn't hear about that.

00:30:37.720 Yeah.

00:30:38.080 That's terrible. 0.97

00:30:38.800 Yeah, and she made a point because she was a Trump supporter, and she said the words, it's fine in Hollywood to smoke meth and sleep with hookers, but it's not fine to vote for Trump. 1.00

00:30:49.320 Why is that? 0.76

00:30:50.020 Uh, that's, uh, that's the question. I mean, I, I, I wouldn't venture to, to, to know the answer to that. Um, it is the facts. Um, uh, yeah, why can't, uh, why is Hollywood, um, you know, uh, when, when, when half the country, like, you know, voted for him and arguably more.

00:31:14.060 Yeah, because I guess the, the, the question that I'm trying to get to, Ariel, is artists, they're meant to be the free thinkers.

00:31:20.820 The whole purpose of art or music in many ways is to see the world through the eyes of someone who looks at the world slightly differently, who looks at the world slightly askew.

00:31:31.220 You'd think that, you'd think that that was the case, but it apparently is not the case anymore.

00:31:36.180 And that's, and there was never, nobody told me, I mean, I might, I might've never done it if like, I basically realized what was, what was, what I was risking.

00:31:46.200 I didn't realize how thoroughly everybody, I, I underestimated how, just how enslaved my, uh, my, uh, my, my, my friends, my, my, my peers, my, my entire city, how everybody would just basically was,

00:32:04.720 because what I think it is, is that like, people just really care so much about what other people think about them now, more than they ever did before.

00:32:12.760 In the past, I think they've cared about it, but there wasn't a big enough, uh, uh, uh, I don't know.

00:32:18.300 I just think that like, you know, something about social media kind of probably makes people hyper aware of what they appear like to other people.

00:32:26.680 And that makes the, uh, some sort of anxiety sets in and, and people literally will, they'd rather, you know, jump in the ocean than actually, uh, risk, uh, losing, uh, their friend group.

00:32:42.640 Hey, KK, do you believe in spring cleaning?

00:32:46.040 Yes, but only when my wife does it. 1.00

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00:34:04.600 You say that, and there were very strong words, you said that people were enslaved, your friendship group were enslaved.

00:34:12.200 Now, I imagine that a lot of your friendship group are artists.

00:34:15.400 What effect does that then have on art and the art that you are creating and the art that Hollywood creates if people are enslaved?

00:34:21.280 Well, I think that, you know, these are the questions that need to be asked.

00:34:26.700 And I'm not, I don't know.

00:34:29.000 I don't know what it means.

00:34:30.360 I don't, I just know that it can't be good.

00:34:33.420 I don't think I would ever encourage somebody to go down the path of self-expression if, with, in this climate.

00:34:42.220 I mean, I, you know, and I never thought I'd ever say that.

00:34:47.200 It's, I never thought that, like, the First Amendment was, was that up for debate.

00:34:53.920 I thought it was one of those, just, those pillars of, of, of American democracy.

00:35:01.960 I just never thought it would even ever be up for question.

00:35:05.040 But now you hear people, you know, saying that, like, you know, free speech is, like, you know, it's, it's a right-wing conspiracy.

00:35:13.260 It's a right, right, right-wing thing.

00:35:15.460 Talking point.

00:35:16.060 Yeah.

00:35:16.260 And as if, as if it has anything to do with partisan politics.

00:35:20.260 It's just, like, it's the first, it's the First Amendment.

00:35:23.880 Every other amendment afterwards, it's not like it's, like, down on the list.

00:35:28.140 Not like 26 or, like, you know, like, like abortion rights. 0.51

00:35:30.720 It's, like, everything flows from the First Amendment.

00:35:33.500 The only way that you have a constitution is by stating that thing.

00:35:38.640 And so, if you throw that out, I don't understand, like, what you think you have after that.

00:35:43.700 I mean, do we have a, do we have a republic at all?

00:35:47.260 No.

00:35:48.400 It's, it's, it's, to me, it's, it's, in my opinion, it's a no-brainer.

00:35:53.400 I mean, I, I'm not even that political, but, like, it's just, I could see, I understand, like, what would happen if, like, we started to ban things the same way that, you know,

00:36:03.500 other countries seem to ban things.

00:36:06.780 And it seems like it's, you know, freedom of speech seems to be a good, a good way to sort of, a sort of a good baseline for basically what you want to call it.

00:36:16.840 Like, like, allowing people to say things.

00:36:20.100 And I've said lots of things.

00:36:23.180 You know, and I, I didn't, if I had, I'd known, I never expected that those things would come back to haunt me, especially.

00:36:29.120 Because I, but I was, I was definitely, like, you know, I was taking the temperature always of, of, of the free speech that I had and the, the platform that I had.

00:36:37.640 And I was, I felt like I could be pretty, I didn't think, like, I had to basically be honest as much as, uh, I allowed myself to be, uh, uh, unvarnished.

00:36:54.740 You know, like, I basically was just able to, uh, free associate in many interviews and I got this, this, you know, you can look up my interviews, you can see what I've said.

00:37:05.800 I never thought that those things were going to be used against me later on.

00:37:09.420 I mean, I, I was exercising my free speech and, uh, you know, I'm not worried about, uh, people, you know, coming up to me and saying, well, you said that, you said that, you, you, you, do you believe that?

00:37:21.140 And it's just like, maybe I do, maybe I don't. It doesn't matter because there's free speech and I can say it.

00:37:26.680 And nobody's going to deny me that because there's free speech. I mean, as long as I don't do anything.

00:37:33.540 But surely Ariel, the pushback to that is, yeah, but free speech does have certain consequences.

00:37:38.000 If you say something, people will never to be think, well, that's what you believe in. Therefore you are.

00:37:43.600 I've said, I've said that, like, I love the Westboro Baptist Church.

00:37:46.660 Now, now, you know, I got a lot of flack for that at the time too.

00:37:50.860 I mean, it's, I can see, mate, that's kind of a, you know.

00:37:56.220 Well, but I mean, but, but I mean, people don't, don't really investigate it.

00:37:59.900 They think I'm just being edgy and are just being like a provocative and I am, but like, there's more to it than that.

00:38:06.940 I mean, they are, they are human beings.

00:38:09.640 They have a reason for being that is, is sort of like not talked about.

00:38:13.340 I'm, I'm, what they do is they sort of, they like to tell people that they're, that they're going to go to hell.

00:38:21.360 But they're, they're telling people that don't believe in heaven or hell that they're going to go to hell and it gets these people upset.

00:38:29.080 They shouldn't be upset because they're not going to go to hell.

00:38:31.320 They don't believe in it.

00:38:32.640 But they are managing, you know, it's a family of lawyers.

00:38:35.340 They're just, these people are, they're, they're, they're provoking people to basically physically assault them.

00:38:44.700 And basically seizing on that weakness, I think.

00:38:48.820 I thought that's what kind of like what I liked about it was that like it was basically calling people's bluff and basically like anybody that basically would attack them for saying, you're going to go to hell.

00:38:59.960 It's like, who cares what they're saying?

00:39:02.020 If you can, if you, you know, what is the big deal?

00:39:05.460 Like I'm rubbing your glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks on you.

00:39:09.840 It's just words.

00:39:11.700 And you need, the consequences are that people get physical.

00:39:15.820 They, they, they get driven to do things.

00:39:18.180 And then they think that, you know, and then, then these lawyers probably like, you know, like their whole reason for being is basically like, like just, just seizing on that.

00:39:29.180 And I, I mean, I don't think it's a very noble purpose, but I think that it actually has a very American thing behind it.

00:39:35.900 But surely, aren't words a reflection of your character, Ariel?

00:39:38.500 Like, for instance, you, you know, you say that you were being provocative and you are a provocative person.

00:39:42.860 And I would say that you're not, you're, you're a contrarian.

00:39:46.000 I mean, a world-class contrarian.

00:39:48.460 Yeah, exactly.

00:39:50.280 So there goes the American modesty.

00:39:52.000 Yeah.

00:39:52.640 But, so doesn't that then reflect your character?

00:39:55.220 The words that you use reflect your character?

00:39:57.620 Like, what you said about Westboro Baptist Church, doesn't that reflect slightly who you are and the way you think?

00:40:03.620 It reflects on who I was or what I was saying at the time.

00:40:08.920 You could extrapolate all sorts of things, but the consequences of that should not be, you know, I could say that I did something totally illegal.

00:40:20.020 The fact that I didn't do that thing should make it clear of consequences, I think.

00:40:27.600 I mean, I mean, like, I can say, what I'm saying is that people, what's true and what isn't, and what's honest and what isn't is a very, very, it's, it's, it's a, it's a murky area.

00:40:37.080 It's a murky area.

00:40:37.680 I mean, we, we, we, what I'm saying is that, like, things are not always what they seem.

00:40:42.400 Don't judge a book by its cover.

00:40:43.700 Look, read between the lines.

00:40:44.980 And maybe I'm wrong about lots of these things, but, like.

00:40:47.020 All right.

00:40:47.280 Well, speaking of being wrong, since Francis refuses to ask him the bloody question, I'm going to ask it, which is, why did you support Donald Trump?

00:40:54.220 You say you're not political.

00:40:55.680 You say it's not something interests you.

00:40:57.620 I mean, I felt, I felt like Donald Trump, I related to his, you know, all these people hating on him.

00:41:04.700 I, I, I, I'd experienced that kind of, that kind of, that kind of media attention that, that he got.

00:41:13.420 I mean, he got it so much worse than I did ever.

00:41:16.060 Yeah.

00:41:16.440 But, but I had, but I know I've been involved in media long enough to know exactly what they do. 0.67

00:41:22.700 And I'm no stranger to the, the sort of, you know, the sort of, uh, uh, uh, lynch mob that they're, like, you know, liable to sort of, these hate campaigns that they try to do to, to, to smear somebody, you know, take some of these words and basically, like, you know, recast them as, as the enemy to basically make them stumble and make them, like, you know, uh, uh, uh, uh, flinch or, or screw up or say something even more, more dumber, you know.

00:41:52.260 And, and, and make themselves, uh, uh, to sort of like, you know, uh, prove them right.

00:41:59.300 And essentially, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's like, uh, the media really likes to take, take down its, uh, its, uh, subjects and it likes to bring them up and then it basically loves to take them down.

00:42:11.600 And so, and it didn't really work for me, for them.

00:42:14.800 I mean, with, with regards to me, I mean, the, first of all, I was never anywhere that what's to take down.

00:42:20.800 I mean, I never really got anywhere.

00:42:22.340 Nobody knows about me, but, but, but, but, but, but the point is that like, I, I had experienced, uh, an, an intense smear campaign on me that was completely wholly out of full cloth, you know, without any reason.

00:42:36.760 Uh, uh, I, I'd experienced several of those.

00:42:40.620 Um, you know, and they, you know, people saying that I was a misogynist, people saying, people, yeah, referring back to the, the interview with the, that I said, uh, the Baptist church, that I liked the Baptist church.

00:42:53.980 And that was a big deal.

00:42:55.640 It was like, I mean, I've said something like I didn't, uh, I didn't believe in, uh, I didn't believe in gay marriage or something like that.

00:43:03.360 I think it was like, I didn't believe in marriage actually.

00:43:06.460 So they just thought.

00:43:07.840 Far less controversial position.

00:43:09.340 Yeah.

00:43:09.600 No, exactly.

00:43:10.260 Strangely enough.

00:43:11.080 Yeah.

00:43:11.360 But, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, uh, so, so, so these are just, you know, these are just things that I said.

00:43:19.040 Yeah.

00:43:19.280 And that's the point is that like, you know, people take these things way too seriously.

00:43:22.520 They take what people say.

00:43:24.100 It's happening with Kanye right now.

00:43:25.460 I mean, I, and this is a hot topic.

00:43:28.280 I mean, is, is what he's saying, is, is he an anti-Semitic?

00:43:32.380 I mean, is that, is that what, what we're talking about?

00:43:34.080 It's like, well, in my opinion, as somebody that's been attacked and stigmatized by the media and by, and the guy's got, he had a family.

00:43:49.200 He has, he's been, he's been called crazy by everybody, by the media.

00:43:53.640 He's, he has to basically redeem himself in the media's eyes.

00:44:00.080 I mean, that's just going to, you're just basically like, you know, you're just like poking at this person.

00:44:06.660 You're not going to, he just does not know.

00:44:10.320 I feel sorry for him.

00:44:11.800 I mean, I feel for the guy because I know what it feels like to basically have the world against you.

00:44:16.580 Okay, but hold on a second, hold on a second.

00:44:20.880 I'm not, I'm not excusing him.

00:44:22.020 I know, I know you're not excusing him and I feel sorry for him as well because I don't think he's very well mentally.

00:44:27.580 Okay.

00:44:27.860 Then I think there are people using him.

00:44:29.620 However, if you go, no one is poking him.

00:44:32.880 He chose to go on all those podcasts.

00:44:34.720 He chose to say, I like Hitler. 0.95

00:44:36.900 And Alex Jones is there going, well, I know you're just trying to be shocking.

00:44:41.680 And, and Kanye says, I'm not trying to be shocking.

00:44:45.080 I like Hitler. 1.00

00:44:46.040 But I think in that situation, you can't expect people not to push back against us.

00:44:51.400 Well, let's, let's sue him for a trillion dollars.

00:44:54.100 I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, that's what they did to Alex Jones.

00:44:56.820 I mean, yeah.

00:44:57.440 But Alex Jones defamed people who, whose children were victims of it.

00:45:01.320 Did he?

00:45:02.060 Yes.

00:45:02.920 That's what the court found.

00:45:04.180 That's why he's being sued.

00:45:05.420 That's why he's going to have to pay $1.5 billion.

00:45:07.960 But that is a different, separate issue.

00:45:11.140 The Kanye thing is, see, this is one of the problems with, I think, with our societies. 1.00

00:45:16.820 We've got to a point where we are prepared to like people just because they're saying, fuck you to the mainstream. 1.00

00:45:23.600 Right. 0.99

00:45:23.920 So this is why I was curious why you like Donald Trump, because, or sorry, you didn't even say you like Donald Trump, why you voted for him.

00:45:31.400 And the answer you gave is, well, I know what it's like to be smeared.

00:45:34.480 We all do in this room.

00:45:35.600 We've all been smeared.

00:45:36.420 Right.

00:45:36.520 I think, I think I definitely, well, if I'm, if I'm going to be honest, I mean, what I, what I felt was that I really, when we voted out, when we, when we didn't, when we voted him in, in 2016, I think that, that was the,

00:45:52.800 that was a memorandum that was, that was basically like a, a, a, that was, that was us saying that we didn't want that regime that had been there prior.

00:46:04.620 And we all thought that, we were all told that the, we were told that he had no chance of winning by the media.

00:46:14.940 The media in, and I'm talking about the right wing and the left wing, was in unison and hated one person, okay, before he ever stepped foot in the White House.

00:46:26.160 And they accused him of all these things.

00:46:29.240 And they really just did, it was the first time that it, it occurred to me that the media was actually in the pocket of a specific party.

00:46:36.560 And more than that, that specific party was also the other party.

00:46:42.220 It was just basically controlled opposition.

00:46:44.840 They were against him because he was an outsider.

00:46:47.740 And, and they thought that they could just basically tell you what you were going to do.

00:46:53.020 And the difference between, like, I think, between now and then is that, I think that they were, I think there was a level of wishful thinking on the part of the media and liberals at the time.

00:47:10.460 They were basically saying, this is what's going to happen, this is what's going to happen, because they hoped that that's what was going to happen.

00:47:18.560 Now, when they said that he's not going to actually have another four years, they were saying, there's no way he's going to have another four years.

00:47:28.260 We're not going to let it happen.

00:47:30.620 And that's the impression, and they were, they meant it, okay?

00:47:33.360 What I'm saying is, like, they made sure that there wasn't any chance of that happening.

00:47:37.300 Whereas back then, they, they, they were just saying it, hoping.

00:47:43.960 And I think that that's, that's what, that's the extremism that you sense nowadays, and the sort of heightened, heightened tension everywhere is, is a, is because of that.

00:47:55.180 And that's the thing, that, that to me is, is what's really the difference in all of this.

00:48:00.280 And, um.

00:48:01.300 Do you, do you, do you feel, go, go, go, go, you go and then I go.

00:48:06.940 Okay, cool.

00:48:08.180 So, um, all of that makes sense to me.

00:48:11.860 I personally, I'm not a fan of Donald Trump.

00:48:14.680 Neither is Francis.

00:48:15.360 Neither do I care.

00:48:16.140 No, that's fine.

00:48:17.020 Yeah.

00:48:17.240 But I agree with you entirely.

00:48:19.440 And I've written a lot and talked a lot about the fact that, uh, he was not treated fairly.

00:48:25.060 The suppression of the Hunter Biden laptop was an outrage by the big tech companies.

00:48:29.260 Uh, a lot of lies were told about Donald Trump.

00:48:33.120 Uh, I am not, uh, at all comfortable with the fact that both sides, um, in 2016, the Democrats,

00:48:42.260 they denied the results of the election.

00:48:44.560 Hillary Clinton is on record saying he's an illegitimate president.

00:48:47.580 So I agree with you that he was not treated fairly.

00:48:50.060 And that's because of the visceral hatred that a lot of people, uh, felt towards him.

00:48:54.560 Right.

00:48:54.760 And so your, your reaction to go, well, these people are all demonizing this guy.

00:49:01.140 I'm going to support him.

00:49:02.340 I understand.

00:49:03.020 But I also think that it's quite a sad state of affairs that that is how, how we make our

00:49:07.100 decisions about who to vote for.

00:49:08.520 Would you agree with that?

00:49:09.700 Well, you know, uh, from what I, I know it sounds, uh, it sounds, uh, it sounds kind of

00:49:16.540 like, you know, just as bad, but, but I'm intending to feel like the people that get canceled

00:49:21.820 these days have a, have a funny way of being really decent people and, and they're being

00:49:30.540 canceled almost because they're decent.

00:49:33.900 Uh, do you think Donald Trump's a decent person?

00:49:36.100 I'm inclined to think maybe he actually is.

00:49:39.560 I wouldn't have thought so before, but now that I start to see, when I see Winston, stuff

00:49:43.480 like Winston, people like Winston getting canceled, me, um, other people that I know, um,

00:49:50.960 it, the only thing that they seem to have in common is that they're sensible.

00:49:56.600 And I, and I think that, like, you know, there seems to, it seems the canceling, you know,

00:50:00.140 like, I mean, there's always been, you know, I think the right wing, the difference is that

00:50:05.640 the right wing, like, doesn't really have the power to cancel anybody.

00:50:08.760 They might want to.

00:50:10.040 20 years ago.

00:50:10.760 But even then, even then, even then.

00:50:13.580 I mean, they canceled Milo.

00:50:15.540 Milo Yiannopoulos was canceled by the right and Milo would say that in his own words.

00:50:18.760 Well, well, that's different.

00:50:21.160 What I'm saying is that they don't have, they can't cancel anybody on the left.

00:50:24.940 Okay.

00:50:26.820 They, they, I expect to see a bunch of people at a Marilyn Manson concert always, you know,

00:50:33.380 in the parking lot, basically like, you know, uh, protesting it and trying to like, you know,

00:50:37.600 stop it from happening.

00:50:38.880 It never happens.

00:50:40.140 Okay.

00:50:40.460 Because they don't have the power to do that.

00:50:42.900 And I, I, but I applaud their, their, their efforts that they might want to cancel.

00:50:48.740 I mean, I think everybody wants to be able to cancel.

00:50:50.840 They don't have the power to the left has the power and they use it.

00:50:55.840 So they basically, in my opinion, they have a responsibility to use it wisely or to use

00:51:02.160 it sparingly because it's an abuse of power.

00:51:05.640 The right doesn't have the power to prevent a personality like Donald Trump to come in

00:51:13.020 and on the Republican ticket because basically they are, they've been kept weak by the Democratic

00:51:20.140 Party as a matter of strategy.

00:51:21.640 They're basically, the, the Republicans have been toothless since, since the Clinton era.

00:51:27.740 And that's been their strategies.

00:51:29.320 It's just sort of like, you know, you know, have, have the suit come out every election

00:51:33.580 season, uh, while, while, uh, then you have, you know, uh, uh, uh, Clinton come on our 0.94

00:51:39.660 city hall and fucking play a saxophone and basically throw them out of the water. 0.93

00:51:43.240 And I mean, they just there to make Democrats look good during election season. 0.99

00:51:49.120 And that's, that's, that's how it feels.

00:51:50.700 I mean, they're just, they don't have any charisma.

00:51:52.500 They don't have any appeal.

00:51:53.200 They don't really have any, uh, uh, they don't have any message, that kind of stuff.

00:51:59.360 So what I, what I appreciate, I mean, and Donald Trump was a Democrat prior to, prior to this.

00:52:05.680 So what I appreciate is that he wasn't as bad as they said he was, as they feared he was.

00:52:11.220 And as they accused him of being before he even stepped foot in, in the white house, they

00:52:15.460 never gave him a chance.

00:52:16.580 He didn't destroy the country.

00:52:17.920 Although they just want to say that he did, but he didn't, he didn't have any designs.

00:52:22.860 He didn't kill people overseas.

00:52:25.120 He didn't put this in war.

00:52:27.560 He's not that bad as far as I was.

00:52:29.720 I kind of liked, I kind of liked not having, not being at war for four years.

00:52:33.260 It was nice.

00:52:34.020 Well, it lasted.

00:52:34.920 Eric, it seems to me that listening to you that you feel that we're being manipulated.

00:52:39.700 Yes, I do.

00:52:41.720 Why is that?

00:52:43.160 And who, who are the people and who are the ones doing the manipulating?

00:52:46.220 I think, uh, you know, I'm not going to name names, but, um, it's been out in the open

00:52:51.860 since, since as far as I can remember.

00:52:55.420 I mean, like, I mean, I mean, is it any, is it any, you have to understand too.

00:53:02.840 Like, I mean, I, I, I toured the world, I've, I've been touring the world regularly, uh,

00:53:11.140 like a hundred, 130 days a year, uh, on average, I would say for 20 years or 18 years, I would

00:53:18.120 say up until, uh, yeah, a little bit before the pandemic.

00:53:23.000 So, I haven't toured since then.

00:53:25.220 Um, but, uh, so I've spent a lot of time abroad and I've been, you know, I've, I've, I've been

00:53:32.160 to places that I never would have thought I would go.

00:53:36.120 I've been to Ulan Bataar.

00:53:38.560 I, I don't think anybody in my city has ever gone to Ulan Bataar.

00:53:41.720 I don't think anybody in rock and roll has ever gone to Ulan Bataar.

00:53:44.180 I've been to, I've been to Moscow.

00:53:46.260 I've been to St. Petersburg.

00:53:47.560 I love these places.

00:53:49.360 I have audiences everywhere.

00:53:50.540 I feel, I feel like I need to call each one of them, all my fans in these places and

00:53:58.900 apologize for things that like my government does.

00:54:05.000 And I feel it's unfair and they shouldn't have to suffer.

00:54:11.080 And I feel a deep empathy for, for, for, I mean, I just feel like, you know,

00:54:19.260 we can be wrong sometimes, you know, we've got to just admit it if we don't, if, if we

00:54:24.840 just, I'm, I was, I'm pro-American, but like, I, I can't do it anymore, man.

00:54:32.280 So who, come back to the manipulating point.

00:54:35.100 Cause I think this is, I hear a lot of people saying stuff like this, but they never really

00:54:40.300 explain what they mean.

00:54:41.760 And you just didn't either, which is interesting.

00:54:44.120 Okay.

00:54:44.220 Well, I'll say what else I'll, I'll be more blunt about it.

00:54:48.000 When I was yet, when I was in my, uh, you know, in the late nineties, I remember, uh, a guy

00:54:54.080 named Bill Gates coming out and saying, you know, some of the big, the biggest, uh, worry

00:55:03.580 for, for humanity is, is, you know, overpopulation.

00:55:05.760 And basically we need to reduce the population by such and such.

00:55:09.180 And this was just something that he just said multiple times.

00:55:12.140 It was, I remember it like it was yesterday.

00:55:15.340 Then you have the pandemic happen and he's behind the vaccine and he's out there basically

00:55:22.500 pitching the thing and saying that this is going to save lives.

00:55:25.600 And I'm thinking to myself, what if it saves lives?

00:55:30.120 What if it works out?

00:55:31.280 What if these things actually save lives?

00:55:32.620 What will happen to your prediction about what will happen to your, your vision of the

00:55:38.960 future, where you say that we have to like, actually like reduce the population by a, by

00:55:43.400 a significant amount.

00:55:45.140 I mean, this is to save humanity.

00:55:48.000 To me, it seems like the whole, the whole program, uh, uh, has been sort of pushed on us.

00:55:56.900 The whole climate, uh, stuff.

00:55:59.840 And this is where I get, you know, I'm, I'm probably your, your garden variety.

00:56:02.620 Tinfoil hat, Q, Q, Q, QAnon kind of style conspiracy theorists.

00:56:09.460 But, uh, this is out of their mouths.

00:56:12.660 Why would I ever like listen to that guy for health when I know what he thinks is like,

00:56:17.160 you know, the prescription for our future.

00:56:18.880 When I know that basically he's already, uh, said that like, you know, climate is the most

00:56:24.160 important thing.

00:56:24.800 And yet none of our, uh, none of our, uh, uh, you know, deals across, across the, the

00:56:32.920 world in the past 20 years have reduced any, uh, carbon emissions.

00:56:39.260 They've only, it's only been exacerbated.

00:56:41.560 And, uh, this is with, I just don't understand.

00:56:45.320 Um, I feel, I'm starting to feel like it's, and I feel like they're panicking because they

00:56:51.100 start to realize like how, how intensely they pushed these things on us.

00:56:55.920 They, they're, they were, they were being alarmist.

00:56:58.540 They're trying to basically push these things into the foreground.

00:57:01.260 Like we have to get, we have to time out guys.

00:57:03.340 We got to focus on saving the trees, saving the, you know, getting rid of these greenhouse

00:57:08.180 and basically reduce the population.

00:57:10.440 All these things that basically to me seem like they were a little bit, I mean, it's

00:57:18.860 just, they set it up.

00:57:20.740 I mean, they basically like, who, who's the they?

00:57:22.340 So we've got Bill Gates on, on the board, Al Gore, uh, the same person that basically

00:57:26.720 gave us the, um, who pitched the internet to, and gave, gave us, you know, gave everybody,

00:57:32.140 you know, said there was going to be this breakthrough in, in, in communication and, and

00:57:36.520 gave us, gave everybody a sample taste, uh, back in the day, the whole world and got everybody

00:57:44.080 hooked on it.

00:57:45.660 And, and, and it seems to me like it's almost the control that they have been able to affect

00:57:52.420 in the results globally.

00:57:55.840 It took about 20 years, but I think they've really, they've honed it and they've, it's

00:57:59.960 meant, you know, they've, they've been saying, this is where it's going.

00:58:02.840 This is where it's going.

00:58:03.740 You don't have a choice.

00:58:05.280 We're going to, AI is going to, it's a boogeyman that's like in the, in the distance.

00:58:08.680 It's there.

00:58:09.420 It's like, it's like, well, why, well, why don't we turn it off then?

00:58:13.140 I mean, why don't we turn around?

00:58:14.380 I mean, like what I'm saying, like, why, why do we think that's a good thing?

00:58:16.940 Is it AI dictates all of our choices?

00:58:21.740 Why, why is that a good thing?

00:58:22.840 How is that going to work out for our country as an Americans?

00:58:26.960 How does globalism, I mean, is that, is that not globalism?

00:58:29.380 Is the internet is global?

00:58:31.920 How does, how does that not, how does not, how is that, is that a free speech platform?

00:58:36.080 Yeah, it's pretty free speech.

00:58:37.300 It's unpoliceable.

00:58:38.940 But then how is that not going to destroy governments worldwide?

00:58:42.400 How is that not going to interfere?

00:58:44.100 Or how is that not, how is that not meant to interfere and destroy?

00:58:49.740 I know, I hear what you're saying, but what about, I mean, it seems like this is the eternal

00:58:54.140 story of humanities.

00:58:55.040 We invent technologies that break the existing order.

00:58:58.200 But we, but we, we seem to have, there seems to be a predestination that's sort of, why,

00:59:03.480 why do you say that?

00:59:04.740 Because, well, what's the predestination?

00:59:07.120 Where, wherever they say it's going, like it's inevitable.

00:59:09.800 So where are we going then?

00:59:11.480 What they, where they say that we're going.

00:59:12.840 Which is where?

00:59:14.100 We're, we're, we're going to have a, a, a, a, a very, you know, what they say, I guess,

00:59:21.900 it's, I guess it's a, we're going to go, what is the great reset thing?

00:59:25.560 It's like, you're going to be, you're going to, you're going to, you're not going to own

00:59:27.520 anything and you're going to be happy.

00:59:29.720 You're not, you know, they're the digital currency.

00:59:32.160 They're getting rid of money.

00:59:33.960 It's all, it's all been decided in advance.

00:59:37.020 And I think that like, uh, it seems, I mean, if that's not the case, then I'm wrong, you

00:59:40.940 know, but it seems to be that like, everything's been accelerated ever since Donald Trump got

00:59:47.440 in power.

00:59:47.820 Do you think Trump was an antidote to that then?

00:59:51.180 Do you think he was one of the people fighting back against that?

00:59:53.900 I think he was a mistake.

00:59:54.920 That's just my personal opinion.

00:59:56.080 If I'm wrong, then he was a plant.

00:59:58.440 And either way, it's still the fault of the other side.

01:00:02.620 So basically there's still, there's still the bad guys one way or the other.

01:00:07.100 The, the, the, the, the issue that I have with this way of thinking, Ariel, is I just

01:00:11.820 don't think human beings, any human being is that competent or that intelligent to be

01:00:16.500 able to create this kind of, this kind of like.

01:00:20.260 Conspiracy?

01:00:21.180 Well, yeah.

01:00:22.000 It's not a conspiracy though.

01:00:23.200 It's, it's, it's, I don't think that like the people on the left are aware that they are

01:00:27.420 basically colluding in these ways out of some sort of like knowledge.

01:00:31.520 I don't think it's like an intellectual thing.

01:00:34.000 I think it's, it's a, it's a, it's, they, they are willing it.

01:00:38.860 I think the power of the mind manifests things.

01:00:41.960 And I think that like, it's, it's a, it's a strange thing where you have basically everybody

01:00:46.480 acting a specific way.

01:00:48.380 And then all of a sudden everybody's basically acting in unison against some other party.

01:00:54.780 And it's so easy to basically like turn everybody into, you know, a, a, a sort of a good faith

01:01:04.380 policeman, you know, for their, for their social order or whatever.

01:01:07.700 But this is, this is the point I'm trying to make to you is this is the entire story

01:01:11.340 of humanity.

01:01:12.120 It happened in the Soviet Union where I grew up.

01:01:14.600 It happened in Nazi Germany.

01:01:16.160 It happened.

01:01:17.020 That's right.

01:01:17.340 We don't want it to happen here.

01:01:18.420 No, no, of course we don't.

01:01:19.480 It happened during the Salem witch trials.

01:01:21.100 It happened in almost every civilization at one point or another, because human beings

01:01:25.880 are tribal.

01:01:26.780 Human beings are largely conformist.

01:01:28.640 Human beings are influenced by a small minority of people to believe things that aren't true.

01:01:33.340 And this is, this is what happens.

01:01:35.500 But once you start to say, well, they have orchestrated this, this is where I struggle to

01:01:41.700 see it because you're making claims that to me, because of what Francis says, just seemed

01:01:46.600 quite unrealistic.

01:01:47.320 Like to get a bunch of people, doesn't, you don't have to call it a conspiracy.

01:01:52.160 Like we run trigonometry, which is like a small YouTube channel with like 10 staff.

01:01:57.580 Let me just finish this point.

01:01:58.760 Right. 0.99

01:01:59.500 We can't get a fucking episode to go out on time. 0.99

01:02:01.840 Now we are probably not as smart as Bill Gates. 0.99

01:02:04.760 I'm just saying that human.

01:02:06.640 You are.

01:02:07.580 Okay.

01:02:08.160 Well, that's very kind of you to say, or maybe unkind of you to say, but my point is,

01:02:12.580 it's hard to get anything to, to, to be the way that somebody intended.

01:02:18.360 And human beings are very complicated.

01:02:20.920 And I agree with you that when you look out into the world and you see, like, sometimes

01:02:26.340 I look at the way people on the right and the left talk about certain issues.

01:02:30.020 And it seems like that, you know, that NPC thing that people talk of a non-player character

01:02:34.620 where people are not thinking they are regurgitating a line that they heard somewhere else.

01:02:40.360 Like I, I just did a bunch of articles and tweet threads about the Hunter Biden lap story

01:02:45.660 going like, no, no, this is a big story.

01:02:47.840 Elon Musk putting out what happened is a big story.

01:02:50.580 And, and all the negative replies, they're literally copy paste.

01:02:54.720 Like they say the same stuff and whatever.

01:02:56.820 But do I believe that they got handed out that talking point at, you know, some kind

01:03:01.620 of meeting with Bill Gates?

01:03:03.140 Probably not.

01:03:04.200 Do you know what I mean?

01:03:04.880 I just think.

01:03:05.220 Do you believe they're real people?

01:03:06.840 Most of them are.

01:03:07.520 Yeah.

01:03:07.920 Yeah.

01:03:08.140 Right.

01:03:08.460 Okay.

01:03:08.640 So, so then, so then don't you feel like it's at, that this is the most, it's, it's,

01:03:12.680 it's funny that at this time, you know, not any other time prior that at this

01:03:18.580 time it's necessary to have these discussions the way that you're having them

01:03:22.700 intelligently and to, and to, it's really important, but it happens to be the same

01:03:27.300 time when the powers that be seem to have a, a new, a new ability to basically like

01:03:36.140 shut down people at will whenever they want to.

01:03:39.260 Well, this is, well, this isn't, again.

01:03:40.660 Is that a coincidence?

01:03:41.460 No, no, no.

01:03:41.840 But hold on.

01:03:42.320 But again, this, this is, you're not taking history into account.

01:03:46.580 No, but I am, I am, I am, I am.

01:03:49.000 Okay.

01:03:49.260 But 500 years ago, the government had way more power to shut you down than it does

01:03:52.800 now.

01:03:53.300 They'd rip out your tongue physically.

01:03:55.000 I get it.

01:03:55.520 I get it.

01:03:55.900 I get it.

01:03:56.260 I get it.

01:03:56.900 I get it.

01:03:57.260 But you're, but you're saying that like either we're not going anywhere or are we, are

01:04:01.840 we getting somewhere?

01:04:02.560 Like, you know, are we going, are we, we just, are we just cyclically just doomed to

01:04:07.260 basically become tribal people?

01:04:08.620 Yes.

01:04:09.240 Okay.

01:04:09.460 Yes.

01:04:09.720 Okay.

01:04:09.960 Okay.

01:04:10.220 Okay.

01:04:10.400 Then what is the point of having the first amendment in the United States, for instance?

01:04:18.080 Okay.

01:04:18.240 Yeah.

01:04:18.480 Like, why has this not happened yet?

01:04:20.280 Okay.

01:04:20.640 What I'm saying is we've gotten rid as, as an American. 0.96

01:04:23.640 And I don't know, you know, I know you guys have been, England is probably, is probably

01:04:28.940 a dream in comparison to, to Russia.

01:04:32.540 That said, I quite liked America and America has been the, the sort of like, you know,

01:04:41.220 for better or for worse has been sort of like the, the, the police, the, the, the sort

01:04:46.220 of the big dad on the scene, the big guy on the scene that basically the whole world

01:04:51.540 is sort of like, you know, been sort of captive to, and then, you know, basically, you know,

01:04:56.540 they basically molding itself to the values that we have.

01:04:59.200 Yeah.

01:04:59.300 We consume your culture.

01:05:00.400 And you guys, and you guys, and you guys, and you guys are, you know, doomed to sort

01:05:03.780 of repeat it in a sense.

01:05:04.980 And so, so, so, well, well, you know, there seems to be some sort of, uh, consensus at

01:05:10.860 this moment that like, that's on its way out.

01:05:13.780 Right.

01:05:14.620 There seems to be like an understanding and an accepting of the idea that like the United

01:05:19.960 States, they had their time and now it's time for them to take a sleep and for some

01:05:24.760 other, some, they can go into slip into number two.

01:05:27.640 There's gotta be another number one.

01:05:29.200 And if this is just cyclical, it's what happens to all empires.

01:05:33.580 And that's, and, and, and I think that that's what is being willed into existence.

01:05:38.480 And Trump definitely opposed that.

01:05:39.820 Yeah.

01:05:40.180 That's what, that's what I, I'm, I, yes.

01:05:44.360 That makes all perfect sense to me.

01:05:46.000 That's why.

01:05:46.340 But when you start talking about they, when you start saying that this is all planned,

01:05:52.380 that's where.

01:05:53.460 No, I don't say it's all planned.

01:05:54.640 I'm saying that it's willed.

01:05:56.620 What I'm saying is that like, it's, it's, it's, it's kind of like the Stay Puft Marshmallow

01:05:59.900 Man and Ghostbusters, you know what I'm saying?

01:06:01.780 Like, like, like, like try to, try to think of something benign or don't think of anything,

01:06:05.120 clear your mind.

01:06:05.700 And then all of a sudden the state, this giant Stay Puft Marshmallow Man comes out because

01:06:11.180 the guy thought like of the most harmless thing he could possibly think of.

01:06:13.740 And it's basically trampling over the whole entire town.

01:06:16.060 So is your argument, just to clarify, that the, that there is, that there, there are

01:06:20.920 elites as like Al Gore, Bill Gates, these type of people.

01:06:24.760 Well, and we can all agree that they're elites and they are fit and they are willing that

01:06:29.500 we move towards this different way of living with AI, where we're monitored, where we're,

01:06:35.340 where we're silenced, where we're controlled.

01:06:36.940 They've been saying things, they've been saying things as if like they're basically inevitable

01:06:40.560 things that are going to happen that, you know, when you think about like, you know,

01:06:44.840 when you think about these robo dogs that they're going to like unleash, you know, like 0.77

01:06:47.780 to do certain things, when, when you think about digital currency, when you think about

01:06:53.060 like all these things that basically like even just two years ago, you really didn't

01:06:56.140 even actually hear about until two years ago.

01:06:58.760 And they're just basically accelerating all this.

01:07:01.080 And the people that like kind of like bark at like, you know, the prospect of these things

01:07:05.040 happening, they're called, you know, like kind of like conspiracy theorists at first,

01:07:08.640 but then it's basically, it starts to like basically gain traction because people just

01:07:13.320 basically get exposed to it more.

01:07:15.180 And they basically, knowing the psychology of people, this system basically knows exactly

01:07:20.500 how to basically like just like expose people to these things and make them extremely suggestible.

01:07:26.500 So basically everybody's, you know, nobody's really in control anymore.

01:07:31.180 Basically there's, there's some other apparatus that is stripping us of our own autonomy

01:07:36.600 and in, in, in dragging us along, whether we like it or not, along this path.

01:07:43.280 And I mean, I don't know what, what is responsible for that, but I don't like it.

01:07:47.780 And I like, I like autonomy.

01:07:49.980 I like being able to decide my, what kind of music I make.

01:07:53.160 I like to be able to like say what I say.

01:07:57.240 You know, I like that, that, that, that, that, that, that nothing that I've ever said has

01:08:00.320 been that controversial. 0.96

01:08:01.320 It's just been just kind of like, just, just playing, playing around, just fucking, just 0.98

01:08:05.560 saying things. 0.99

01:08:06.680 It's the consequences have always been my butt. 0.97

01:08:10.280 I mean, I basically, it's like, no, I've never heard anybody. 0.84

01:08:12.680 Nothing I've said has ever made somebody do something crazy.

01:08:16.300 It's always just been like, oh, Ariel really stepped in it this time.

01:08:21.460 No, no, this, this, uh, love of freedom and autonomy and wanting to push back.

01:08:27.860 I mean, as Francis was saying earlier, it's the job of artists, it's the job of people

01:08:30.880 like you.

01:08:31.600 I, I'm on board with all of that.

01:08:33.300 I think that that's brilliant.

01:08:34.880 I'm just wondering why the, and the reason I'm discussing this with you is I think you're

01:08:39.880 very articulate about it.

01:08:41.360 And I hear this thread of thinking a lot online from people.

01:08:46.240 There's a them and they are trying and they're willing and they're doing this.

01:08:50.040 Us.

01:08:51.100 What I'm saying, what I'm saying is when I say them, I mean, I'm just, well, no, you said

01:08:54.740 Bill Gates and Al Gore.

01:08:55.880 No, but no, it's us.

01:08:58.000 It's us.

01:08:58.800 It's, it's you and it's you as well.

01:09:00.820 I mean, the point is, is that like, I, I'm not, I'm not, I don't have the power to stop

01:09:08.980 it from where it's going.

01:09:10.340 Right.

01:09:10.760 Yeah.

01:09:11.040 What I'm saying is it's all of us.

01:09:13.760 We all, but, but the world is not, has not been decided.

01:09:18.960 It's not, is not a foregone conclusion that we shouldn't actually take, we should be take

01:09:24.620 it for granted.

01:09:25.100 We think that basically these, these, these authorities know what they're, what's going

01:09:32.800 to happen and we know what they're talking about and they talk about things and we believe

01:09:37.380 that they understand things more than we do.

01:09:39.840 And I totally understand.

01:09:40.940 I bet.

01:09:41.360 Mate, you should meet some politicians.

01:09:43.320 Believe me, they don't.

01:09:44.620 No, no, but, but, but they act like they sound like they do and they talk like they do.

01:09:49.580 And it's very scary because they probably do in some way.

01:09:55.660 And maybe we're not appreciating it because we're basically like writing them off and calling 0.99

01:09:59.040 them, you know, kind of dumb. 0.99

01:10:00.480 Well, it's like, but, but like we're the ones that are the suckers. 0.99

01:10:02.380 See, I'll tell you, it's like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's painfully

01:10:06.480 obvious that like what is happening to our culture and everything is artificial.

01:10:12.440 It's not like, why is it obvious to you?

01:10:14.080 It's because it's not organic.

01:10:15.720 It's, it's been, it's been, it's been, it's very heavy handed.

01:10:19.080 What's been happening has been a steady campaign of hatred against specific one person, my,

01:10:26.080 our president by the media, it sounds to me, you know what it feels like to me, it feels

01:10:32.000 like somebody that's basically trying to cover up something.

01:10:37.420 That's what it is.

01:10:38.480 It sounds like somebody that's trying, that feels guilty about what they did or not feel

01:10:42.560 guilty, but basically is somebody protests a little bit too much.

01:10:47.120 It feels to me like they're trying to desperately cover up something that they did that they're

01:10:51.140 afraid is going to be.

01:10:52.080 May I offer just a counter, counter explanation that I think is just easier to sell, right?

01:10:59.280 Which is this, Donald Trump broke every moral code of the progressive left.

01:11:05.000 How? 0.98

01:11:05.740 He's obnoxious.

01:11:07.260 He says things you're not supposed to say. 0.95

01:11:09.400 He's politically incorrect.

01:11:11.040 He is brash.

01:11:12.160 He is the embodiment of a form of masculinity, which you're not supposed to have in the modern

01:11:17.480 world, right?

01:11:18.060 Masculinity, bad, femininity, good, right? 0.99

01:11:20.700 Um, he, he challenged the point that you made, which is a very good point.

01:11:25.680 He challenged the idea of managed decline.

01:11:28.320 This is something that Steve Bannon and Donald Trump both talked about a lot, challenged the

01:11:32.660 idea that America is supposed to, you know, take a nap or take a rest or whatever it was

01:11:37.180 you said to go down.

01:11:38.860 Um, and he represented both politically in terms of policy, but also, you know, dealing, dealing

01:11:44.980 with the border.

01:11:46.280 You're not supposed to talk about it, right?

01:11:48.020 Just like in this country, you're not supposed to talk about.

01:11:50.040 But why aren't you supposed to talk about that?

01:11:51.860 Because, because to those people on the left, these are subjects that are just out of the

01:11:57.300 realms of the-

01:11:57.900 They're globalists.

01:11:59.080 Okay.

01:11:59.520 Yeah.

01:11:59.780 That's fine.

01:12:00.500 I totally agree.

01:12:01.280 So they're not for countries.

01:12:02.440 I agree.

01:12:03.440 Okay.

01:12:03.660 So, so, so then, so then we, what, what, what, let me ask you this, why it's a presidential

01:12:08.440 election for a country.

01:12:10.860 I'm not, I'm not, I'm not voting for the ruler of the world.

01:12:14.200 I'm voting for the ruler of, for the president of the presidential election for four years.

01:12:18.820 Okay.

01:12:19.220 I get it.

01:12:19.740 So, so here's-

01:12:20.620 I'm just trying to explain why I think they would want to destroy someone like Donald

01:12:23.920 Trump.

01:12:24.200 Of course, because they've been brainwashed because they don't believe in countries, because

01:12:27.940 they don't believe in money, because they don't believe in borders, because they want

01:12:32.000 to destroy the, they don't believe in a country.

01:12:34.940 Those people should not be eligible to be president.

01:12:38.640 Okay.

01:12:38.940 I'm sorry.

01:12:39.740 It's just people, they're against parents.

01:12:43.300 They're against men being, you know, the nuclear family.

01:12:47.920 Okay.

01:12:48.380 They are, they're, that's offensive to them.

01:12:50.080 That's, since when is that the case?

01:12:51.800 Okay.

01:12:52.140 Okay.

01:12:52.580 There's nothing okay.

01:12:53.880 And don't, he's not offensive.

01:12:56.200 If you listen to what he said, you'd realize that he's a lot more practical, sensible.

01:13:01.160 I listen to a lot of what John said.

01:13:03.360 I always-

01:13:04.320 He's been-

01:13:04.780 I've always been very fair, but I'm trying to explain to you why people on that side

01:13:08.880 of the political-

01:13:09.240 I understand why.

01:13:09.860 Because they've been, because their minds have been corrupted and they don't really

01:13:12.980 have that much agency.

01:13:14.320 They don't, they're, and also they're younger.

01:13:15.800 Okay.

01:13:16.440 Typically, Democrats are younger people because they don't have much to, to the, they don't

01:13:21.960 own very much.

01:13:22.660 They got nothing to their name.

01:13:23.580 So they, there's not, they want, they don't mind like living, you know, eating from sardine

01:13:29.020 cans and living with 10 people.

01:13:30.260 You know, they need each other.

01:13:31.820 Obviously.

01:13:32.180 That there's, they, they need to get their life together.

01:13:36.080 But like when you own stuff, when you're like, basically when it comes down to it is,

01:13:40.240 I mean, like, what are, what are conservatives?

01:13:42.040 Do you think they're just like, you know, like, like a rednecks with, with a, with a, with a, 0.99

01:13:46.920 with a chip on their shoulder about different races?

01:13:50.220 No, they just basically people that basically conservatives in general are people that basically

01:13:57.420 like have grown to, to, to, to have a family and basically they have a house, they own a

01:14:04.920 house.

01:14:06.000 And taxes really make a big difference.

01:14:09.300 Taxes make a really big difference at that point.

01:14:11.160 Like when, when, when you own a house, when you have a family to feed, it's not like,

01:14:15.280 like when you lived on your own and you were making a killing working at some agency or

01:14:20.380 whatever, and you just didn't have any overhead.

01:14:22.060 Okay.

01:14:22.220 It makes a huge difference.

01:14:24.320 The taxes is like such a, such an easy kind of like, you can understand why people that

01:14:28.860 have like a little bit more money need that need, the taxes start to really, really impact

01:14:34.300 their ability to live when they have more expenses.

01:14:38.340 And when you just, when you just ignore that fact, when you, when you have basically one party

01:14:43.200 that's basically exploiting the, the sort of, the lack of, the lack of resolve, the lack,

01:14:52.560 I mean, basically it feels just very exploitative.

01:14:54.860 I mean, I mean, because, because to me, the elites are, are, are, are Democrats largely by

01:15:00.580 and by and large.

01:15:01.560 At the moment.

01:15:02.240 Yeah.

01:15:02.420 At the moment.

01:15:03.360 So, so, so, so it's, it's, it's, it's ironic to me.

01:15:06.380 Hey Francis, if you were a member of the public, would you like the opportunity to ask incredible

01:15:11.880 guests like Bill Burr, Jordan Peterson, Sam Harris, Adam Carolla, Brett Weinstein, John

01:15:18.120 Barnes, Douglas Murray, Nigel Farage, and Lionel Shriver, your own questions.

01:15:23.280 You bet I would.

01:15:24.600 And what do you think the best way to do that would be?

01:15:27.820 Uh, probably stalking, mate.

01:15:29.520 You'd have to corner them in the supermarket, probably run near like the sort of frozen food

01:15:34.720 aisles, and then just bark questions at them before they can escape.

01:15:38.640 Uh, not the American ones, as they have guns. 0.84

01:15:41.660 And you'd have to be extra careful with the females, as that's how I got in trouble last 1.00

01:15:46.120 time.

01:15:47.100 Can you really imagine you're going to get Douglas Murray near the frozen food aisle?

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01:17:22.100 See you there, guys.

01:17:23.320 I'm listening to you talk and your passion, Ariel.

01:17:27.820 And look, I get it.

01:17:29.580 Do you think part of it is the fact that you live in Los Angeles, where you are at the

01:17:34.880 very, almost very epicenter of this ideology?

01:17:38.840 You're 45 years old.

01:17:40.460 You were there before and you suddenly saw it creep in.

01:17:44.400 And not only did you see it creep in in one of the, you know, in one of the wokest places

01:17:48.360 in the world, you're working in one of the wokest industries and you see more and more

01:17:53.620 of your friends adopt this ideology.

01:17:55.800 Well, it never was that.

01:17:56.740 It wasn't that.

01:17:57.620 It wasn't woke.

01:17:58.420 I mean, there's only woke as-

01:17:59.220 Oh, sorry.

01:17:59.780 Like the progressivism or the ideology that you're talking about.

01:18:04.860 I'm-

01:18:05.340 Do you see, and you're more sensitive to it because you're quite literally at the center

01:18:09.200 of it.

01:18:09.840 Plus, you've also described yourself as a contrarian.

01:18:12.920 Do you see what I mean?

01:18:14.000 I'm the most liberal person that you've ever met.

01:18:15.900 I was born and raised in LA.

01:18:17.420 My values are, I've met one, I don't think I've met one conservative in my entire life,

01:18:23.020 okay?

01:18:23.380 Like, I mean, the people that I am like is like the people that I was raised around are

01:18:28.380 my friends.

01:18:29.860 We have the same values.

01:18:31.520 I mean, I'm more liberal than anybody that has canceled me, okay?

01:18:36.700 I mean, I know that for a fact.

01:18:37.940 I mean, I'm a rock star.

01:18:39.160 All I can say.

01:18:40.560 I was raised in LA.

01:18:43.040 I don't know anything else.

01:18:44.660 Whether I wanted to actually, if I wanted to be, if I wanted to be, you know, a Puritan

01:18:51.340 or if I wanted to be anything that's associated with the right, I probably, I wouldn't know

01:18:58.420 where to start.

01:18:59.000 But I've just, I'm as west coast liberal LA as you can imagine.

01:19:03.640 And it is my home.

01:19:05.040 It was where I was born and raised.

01:19:06.220 I don't know.

01:19:06.960 I didn't come there from another small town to make it or anything like that.

01:19:11.920 I am a country bumpkin.

01:19:13.420 That's all I know.

01:19:14.740 Yeah.

01:19:15.040 And I've never lived anywhere else.

01:19:16.320 My family's there.

01:19:17.440 So I never left.

01:19:19.660 I embody the liberal ideal, which up until five minutes ago was the liberal ideal.

01:19:30.980 Now it is a woke police state that I'm basically shunned from and that does not embody any of

01:19:43.280 the virtues that only five minutes ago it was touting.

01:19:49.440 Well, it was completely illiberal.

01:19:50.800 That's why we oppose it because it's illiberal.

01:19:52.660 So when you say, so when you say, is that because I'm in LA, I don't think it matters

01:19:57.340 that I'm in LA because the fact that I'm from LA is, is what, what did me in and it's

01:20:05.220 not coming from LA.

01:20:05.940 No, no, no.

01:20:05.960 But Francis' point is you, you saw the biggest transformation, right?

01:20:11.460 You were living in a place where the culture changed so quickly.

01:20:15.120 Not just LA.

01:20:15.700 It's so badly.

01:20:16.600 Silicon Valley.

01:20:17.280 Of course.

01:20:17.640 So what I'm saying is California, California witnessed the entire transformation of that

01:20:22.940 state, the United States.

01:20:24.340 And of course, through big tech, which comes from Silicon Valley, those values leak out

01:20:28.240 into the rest of the world.

01:20:29.000 Those values were like, sort of like whatever happened in LA, sort of like this, there's

01:20:33.700 a feeling that it would happen everywhere else in the world 10 years from now.

01:20:36.660 Yes, exactly.

01:20:37.680 And so, so it's, it seems like it's on the forefront of things.

01:20:41.640 And so maybe there is something about that to me that is a little bit like, kind of like

01:20:45.960 a, wants to sort of like, you know, ring the bell and be like, Hey, wait, wait, wait, wait,

01:20:51.080 look, this is where it's going, guys.

01:20:52.220 Maybe we got to turn back right now.

01:20:53.480 Sure.

01:20:53.860 That's what that's.

01:20:54.680 But I guess the reason we're having this entire discussion is basically this, that I think

01:20:59.440 you think because this transformation has been so dramatic and so rapid and so unnatural

01:21:04.720 and so counter to your values, you're going, well, this must be somehow, you said manipulated

01:21:11.140 or these people are involved.

01:21:12.420 Yeah, I think it's artificial.

01:21:13.760 Artificial is the word, right?

01:21:14.860 And I think an equally credible and probably certainly to me, much more credible thing

01:21:19.560 is we've had a gigantic technological transformation, just like the invention of the printing press

01:21:25.440 or hold on that, that allows for a different type of communication, which is more suited to

01:21:31.040 certain ideas than others, because this is the problem with social media.

01:21:34.500 Social media naturally rewards certain types of ideas over others.

01:21:38.760 And the ideas that are rewards ideas that may sound good, but are impractical.

01:21:43.560 So, for example, you go on Twitter and you say there is no difference between men and

01:21:47.500 women. 0.81

01:21:47.940 On Twitter, that works.

01:21:50.580 It works on Twitter because it's not real life.

01:21:52.980 You can say there's no difference between men and women and there'll be a shit ton of 1.00

01:21:56.340 people who agree with it because they like that idea, even though it's completely untrue,

01:22:00.440 right?

01:22:00.660 So, you have a technological transformation that leads to the propagation of certain ideas.

01:22:06.620 And that does not necessarily have to be the product of a conspiratorial...

01:22:10.440 Do you think that it's market demands?

01:22:12.580 I think that, as I say, I think it is a technological shift that changes the way we consume information.

01:22:19.480 Like, you are a different person on Twitter than you are in real life.

01:22:22.520 So am I.

01:22:23.300 So is Francis.

01:22:24.180 So is everybody else.

01:22:25.520 Why is that?

01:22:26.160 Because the technology channels us into behaving in particular ways.

01:22:30.600 It's like when you're driving your car and someone cuts you up.

01:22:33.580 Because you're behind the windscreen, because there's that distance, you behave in ways that

01:22:38.040 you wouldn't behave if you were face-to-face.

01:22:39.860 Well, it's a different medium altogether.

01:22:42.120 It's not real life.

01:22:43.280 It's what I'm like on paper, you know, or like when you read about it.

01:22:46.480 Exactly.

01:22:46.700 And what I'm saying is that it's completely...

01:22:48.860 It's a different thing.

01:22:50.040 Exactly.

01:22:50.300 It's like a piece of...

01:22:51.120 But that's...

01:22:52.660 Listening to my music is not me.

01:22:54.980 You're going to get a different...

01:22:55.740 What I'm saying is these are different realities.

01:22:57.620 But what I'm saying is I think you're getting...

01:23:00.960 What I'm trying to say is that might be true, but I think you're giving...

01:23:05.540 You think that, like, cancellation and these kinds of things are driven by people's opinions.

01:23:11.100 And I'm trying to tell you that I don't believe that the people's opinions are actually the

01:23:18.740 driving force of any of these campaigns that have basically happened.

01:23:22.360 It's tribally, yeah.

01:23:23.020 It's tribally.

01:23:23.780 No, they're actually...

01:23:24.820 They are convincing themselves.

01:23:26.200 They're the recipients.

01:23:28.180 Somebody gets cancelled for whatever...

01:23:31.380 For such and such reason.

01:23:32.760 The people that basically see the person get cancelled need to feel that they basically

01:23:38.640 have an opinion about the person being cancelled.

01:23:41.380 So they basically want to think that they had a hand in cancelling them.

01:23:45.080 When, in fact, it's the other way around.

01:23:47.760 They got cancelled by some mechanism that is beyond anybody's awareness or control.

01:23:53.120 They don't understand what it is.

01:23:54.420 They're not cancelling.

01:23:55.620 They want to think of themselves.

01:23:57.080 We want to think of ourselves as sort of having a say in this thing.

01:24:00.120 But there's some other mechanism that's basically giving us our thoughts and our opinions.

01:24:06.320 And we are basically rationalizing it because we think that we have a say in this.

01:24:10.660 We don't have a say in this.

01:24:11.720 But isn't that the opposite of what happened to you?

01:24:13.300 You said yourself, you went to this rally.

01:24:15.740 People conflated you going to a rally and being part of the riot, right?

01:24:19.860 And then your label got a shit ton of pushback from people. 0.95

01:24:23.860 And you got a shit ton of pushback.

01:24:25.320 And that's why they dropped.

01:24:26.260 What happened was that there was articles that went out.

01:24:29.020 Right.

01:24:29.380 Without any confirmation, without any corroboration, without any reason, without any eye-witch.

01:24:33.180 Because they were looking for a scapegoat, right?

01:24:34.880 Well, I mean, if they do that, they usually get into lawsuits, okay?

01:24:38.000 What I'm saying is that, like, there's no ethical journalism.

01:24:40.480 What they do is they basically are – there's a board.

01:24:47.540 They can hit people, whoever they want.

01:24:49.620 They basically turn their attention to this person.

01:24:52.480 We don't care about the ethics or the consequences of doing this stuff.

01:24:58.760 Errol, this is what I don't get.

01:25:00.980 Like, you say there's a board, right?

01:25:02.620 That means there's a room in which there's a board and then there's people who are going,

01:25:06.460 let's pick on this person now.

01:25:07.960 Is that – you think that's what happens?

01:25:09.800 Well, why didn't they correct it?

01:25:11.500 No, no.

01:25:11.980 Just you think there's a room with a board where people pick out a name and go,

01:25:16.660 let's go after this guy.

01:25:17.580 I think what there is is there's a wide scale sort of, like, we cannot let him win.

01:25:29.180 So we have to – there's a – I believe that there was an actual – it seems very weird to me

01:25:35.980 that I was the only person in Hollywood that was outwardly pro-Trump, okay?

01:25:41.620 Every single magazine, every single institution, unless they were, like, already, like, way right-wing

01:25:49.420 as far as they were concerned, you know?

01:25:51.540 That – you know, like, that's – these people are, like, hopeless, okay?

01:25:55.980 Owen, News, whatever the other – whatever the other – Epoch, you know, whatever it is.

01:26:05.240 Those things are already, like, right-wing and slanted as that.

01:26:08.300 But then there's, like, everything else, the New York Times, there's, like, every single other –

01:26:12.900 I mean, every single magazine and every single publication that could not ever –

01:26:19.300 if you were – if you could not be pro – make an argument.

01:26:23.040 I agree.

01:26:23.420 You couldn't –

01:26:24.020 That doesn't mean there's a room with a board in it where people pick out –

01:26:26.920 I believe that there was an actually – there was a behind-the-scenes,

01:26:30.400 there was actually an agreement behind the elitist – the moneyed interests that basically –

01:26:41.100 a roundtable that said we will not allow any kind of positive speaking of Donald Trump

01:26:48.620 allowed in our institutions, in our magazines, or in anything that's –

01:26:52.400 there's, like, a – like, a – the moratorium, basically.

01:26:55.400 Like, that was just, like, basically, like, you cannot do that.

01:26:57.920 And it was unspoken.

01:27:00.100 They didn't announce that.

01:27:01.260 A room and a board is not unspoken.

01:27:02.940 No, what I'm saying is that there was nobody that basically pushed back against that.

01:27:06.420 No, I agree with you.

01:27:07.460 So why is that –

01:27:08.060 But that's groupthink.

01:27:09.240 That's groupthink.

01:27:09.940 No, it's not.

01:27:10.520 No, it is.

01:27:11.100 It happens in comedy.

01:27:12.140 Groupthink happens all the time.

01:27:13.340 But hold on, hold on.

01:27:14.160 It happens in comedy.

01:27:15.260 In comedy, there's a certain way of thinking.

01:27:17.220 But no one sits down in a room with a board and goes,

01:27:20.160 let's go after trigonometry.

01:27:21.860 Let's go after these people. 0.73

01:27:22.860 I get it.

01:27:23.620 Okay, so listen.

01:27:24.220 So in light of the groupthink, there's people – thank God there's people like me

01:27:29.320 that are basically there to throw a turd into the punch bowl, okay?

01:27:32.780 Sure, yeah.

01:27:33.520 As long as they're allowed to do that.

01:27:35.980 Sure.

01:27:36.640 But I'm not allowed to do that.

01:27:38.260 You are here.

01:27:39.300 No, I'm in another country.

01:27:41.480 I'm a man with – I'm telling you, it's not allowed in my country.

01:27:48.160 And you don't – come and live in L.A., man.

01:27:51.300 I'm telling you, you guys do – you got – the whole world is free speech now, okay?

01:27:55.480 You guys have the same – you took that from us.

01:27:58.120 We basically – everybody stands for that and they appreciate that.

01:28:04.280 You don't understand what happens when the first world – when the United States loses that thing

01:28:11.160 and when they cancel people because of it, okay?

01:28:13.040 They cancel people because of what they believe in, okay?

01:28:16.000 When they cannot say – when they cannot vote for a president, I – if I had known

01:28:21.840 that it was illegal to vote for Donald Trump, I probably wouldn't have voted for him.

01:28:26.200 But the understanding was there.

01:28:27.860 I basically – I was – that I was not allowed to do that.

01:28:30.360 We are sympathetic to you.

01:28:31.700 That's why we're having this conversation.

01:28:32.920 I know, I know, I know.

01:28:33.740 But what I'm saying is –

01:28:34.580 This is just – let's just focus on the part of what you're saying that I'm

01:28:38.000 very hopefully, respectfully, and gently trying to challenge, which is the idea that –

01:28:43.000 and the reason that I am having this discussion with you –

01:28:45.440 I do – I understand what you're saying, though.

01:28:46.720 This is something that a lot of people say, and I think it's important for people who

01:28:51.300 like each other as we do and who are interested in each other's point of view to have this

01:28:55.360 part of the conversation.

01:28:56.720 The fact that there's groupthink and the fact that there's conformity of views,

01:29:00.580 I find as abhorrent as you do.

01:29:03.400 The fact that somebody cannot vote for one of the two presidential candidates without having

01:29:07.680 their life ruined is abhorrent to me.

01:29:10.280 And what happened to you is atrocious, right?

01:29:12.560 It should never have happened that way.

01:29:14.060 The way you were treated was awful.

01:29:15.760 That does not mean that there's – I'm using your words now – a round table.

01:29:20.400 It does not mean that there's a room with a board on it where they pick out who to go

01:29:24.060 after.

01:29:24.560 It just means, in my opinion, that there are people who have a certain worldview, and I

01:29:29.360 know many of these people, right?

01:29:31.060 And they're not nearly as competent or capable as you'd like to think, believe me, right?

01:29:35.740 And they just have a view that there is the right way to see this, and they act accordingly.

01:29:41.760 So, for example, I have a friend who works at one of the major publications in this country,

01:29:46.260 who I know from before I started trigonometry, and him and I disagree very frequently.

01:29:50.400 In 2016, when the Hunter Biden laptop story was published, I was tweeting saying, this is

01:29:55.300 really important.

01:29:56.080 This is a big story.

01:29:56.960 And the cover-up is bigger than the actual story.

01:29:59.160 The fact that the big tech suppressed it is the bigger.

01:30:01.180 And he got really angry with me because he just wanted his guy to win, right?

01:30:08.340 And that is how these people think.

01:30:10.100 That does not mean there's a room with a board with a round table.

01:30:14.520 There's some kind of cabal.

01:30:15.880 There's some kind of thing.

01:30:17.180 I just don't think that's the way that it happens.

01:30:19.180 But they have also, like, admitted all that stuff, though, too.

01:30:22.120 What?

01:30:22.500 They've admitted what?

01:30:23.300 Oh, you know what I mean?

01:30:23.940 There's that article about, like, you know, like, how there's that, you know, the secret

01:30:29.700 story on how the Democrats, like, you know, banded up with these different groups, you know,

01:30:40.060 like, and they, to, to, to, to collaborate, to basically.

01:30:43.980 Yeah, I read that article.

01:30:44.740 Yeah, yeah, right.

01:30:45.260 So, so there's.

01:30:46.040 But they didn't admit that they sat down in a room.

01:30:48.800 Of course, these people talked to each other.

01:30:50.560 We talked to each other.

01:30:51.720 We had dinner last night.

01:30:52.980 That's all I'm saying.

01:30:53.860 All I'm saying is that, like, there was an agreement.

01:30:55.680 That's all.

01:30:56.660 I'm not saying that there's anything, like, more nefarious than that.

01:30:58.960 You said there was a board in a room and you said there was a round table.

01:31:02.280 There was a, there was a Zoom call.

01:31:04.260 Okay.

01:31:04.560 I mean, what I'm saying, I don't know what you're, you're, you're getting at.

01:31:07.460 What I'm saying is there was an obvious, there was, like, it wasn't just, it goes beyond,

01:31:14.540 it goes beyond, you know, determination to win an election.

01:31:21.660 Okay.

01:31:22.380 I mean, I can give them, I can give them props for, like, you know, going far and above

01:31:26.460 and doing what was necessary in order to win.

01:31:28.420 Okay.

01:31:29.300 I appreciate it.

01:31:29.800 Sorry, Francis, you go ahead.

01:31:30.540 Yeah, yeah, no.

01:31:31.140 Are we, are we finishing?

01:31:32.160 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's not.

01:31:33.600 It's, when, when I talk, I've got a lot of empathy for the way, for the, for what you

01:31:39.360 talk about, Ariel, because I see, I'll be honest with you, mate, I see a lot of myself

01:31:43.400 in you.

01:31:44.180 I used to think that I was the most liberal guy and, you know, I, in the old fashioned

01:31:48.660 sense, you say what you feel.

01:31:50.880 Yeah, I'm not liberal anymore.

01:31:52.280 Yeah.

01:31:52.680 No, but you are, you are.

01:31:54.140 No, no.

01:31:54.400 No, but, but we've changed words.

01:31:56.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:31:58.780 Do you think a lot of the strength that you're feeling is because you lament an America that

01:32:04.920 no longer exists?

01:32:08.080 Yeah, and I lament a career that no longer exists as well.

01:32:11.280 I lament, I mean, I've always been about, I'm not progressive at all.

01:32:18.240 I mean, I'm like, you know, I'm like the future is worse than the past.

01:32:22.620 I'm like the, you know, all the best stuff already happened.

01:32:27.120 It's hopeless, basically.

01:32:28.260 And you got to love it while it's, you got to love it while it's here.

01:32:33.100 The moment is, is the youngest you'll ever be.

01:32:36.420 It's not going to be better.

01:32:37.920 You got to appreciate what you have and hold on to it and hold on to what you love the most.

01:32:41.920 That's what I believe in.

01:32:42.840 I don't believe in progressive causes or anything like that.

01:32:44.960 I think the whole world, I mean, we, we grow up and then we die.

01:32:48.800 There's the, the, the human arc of experience is a very tragic thing.

01:32:53.860 And so I, I believe that hope might be a, a hypervigilance in terms of like, you know,

01:33:00.380 things going in a certain way is pretty, pretty naive.

01:33:03.500 I think that like there's, there's probably things are just going to get worse, but we

01:33:07.820 probably won't know the difference.

01:33:09.240 We'll be happy slaves and all that kind of stuff.

01:33:11.760 But I'm here to basically, to, to say, let's do the impossible and turn back.

01:33:19.560 That's what I think is necessary.

01:33:21.480 I don't, I don't think we should make a virtue out of change or any of those things.

01:33:26.420 I think that the change is inevitable.

01:33:28.020 It's like, it's not your friend.

01:33:30.440 That doesn't mean you should worship it.

01:33:32.660 I think the human spirit is a lot more, the fact that we can stand up straight in the,

01:33:37.720 while the winds of change try to blow us and, and tear at us.

01:33:41.000 But we stand, our spirit stands firm and straight and does the impossible, you know,

01:33:49.160 against the sands of time, against the winds of change and all that kind of stuff.

01:33:52.080 I think that that's what, what's amazing about humans. 1.00

01:33:54.880 And I don't think it's, it's about us being in pods, consuming shit. 0.99

01:34:02.280 And there's, and history is littered with people that, that have individuals that have 0.98

01:34:07.240 done things that basically have, have changed the way that we think.

01:34:10.500 And that, uh, those things are great.

01:34:12.960 I don't think that that's, uh, I think that like we've done a lot of good despite, despite

01:34:21.100 the, um, the bad tidings.

01:34:24.180 I think that like, you know, I think that history is like a, is weird.

01:34:28.220 Like I think that there's, there's been a lot of bad and, and a, and a sort of a catalog

01:34:32.540 of, of massacres and terrible things.

01:34:34.920 But I think that we can get to a place where we, where we aren't like that.

01:34:39.460 And, uh, I kind of think that, you know, we should stop while we're ahead.

01:34:42.420 And yeah.

01:34:44.100 And because what you're talking about is you worry where we're heading, but you also,

01:34:49.160 there's still hope there, Ariel.

01:34:51.040 There, there, there, there hope is getting extinguished by the day, but yeah, it's, it's,

01:34:55.300 it's, it's, it's pretty much gone now.

01:34:56.620 And, and, and, and I, you know, I hate to say it.

01:34:58.940 I mean, I'll take whatever life gives me.

01:35:01.020 I'll go wherever I'm wanted.

01:35:02.100 But if that's China or Russia, then so be it.

01:35:05.560 I mean, I, I will go, I'm sure I'm not going to be, I'm going to be okay.

01:35:10.300 And all that kind of stuff, I will be welcome here.

01:35:12.980 So I'll go wherever I'm wanted.

01:35:14.740 But, but I, I don't, uh, I didn't think it would happen in my, in my lifetime.

01:35:19.860 What, as in what would happen in your lifetime?

01:35:22.280 Oh, that I would become, uh, you know, uh, seen as a, as some sort of, uh, some sort of

01:35:28.440 danger or harm that I did something wrong.

01:35:31.640 And then, you know, you can just like punish me and not say anything, not, not be, not,

01:35:37.620 you know, I mean, it's like, whatever.

01:35:38.880 I mean, nobody's at fault for whatever happened to me.

01:35:40.680 It's just, it's just, I'm collateral damage.

01:35:43.220 I'm basically like, just like a mistake.

01:35:44.880 Okay.

01:35:45.200 And like, I get it, but there's no recourse for me.

01:35:48.080 And it's not like I've rattled, I'd rather almost be found guilty of something, do my time

01:35:54.420 and then get out of jail, you know, after a certain amount, this, this indefinite kind

01:35:59.080 of like, you know, there's no, I mean, I don't know if I can,

01:36:01.640 I can get a job at Starbucks.

01:36:02.900 Okay.

01:36:03.700 Like that, like that, they don't let me, uh, in certain venues in LA, you know, I can't

01:36:09.560 go to concerts.

01:36:10.340 I can't go to restaurants.

01:36:12.360 These are, this is my hometown.

01:36:14.820 And there's no explanation.

01:36:15.900 I mean, is that legal?

01:36:16.900 Is that legal?

01:36:17.500 I mean, should I, should I, no, that's no, it's not that it's not legal.

01:36:21.260 That's what the people think.

01:36:22.420 So yeah, what are you going to do, Ariel?

01:36:24.060 They don't feel safe with you there.

01:36:26.460 Yeah.

01:36:26.860 Okay. 0.95

01:36:27.320 So that's, I think it's, I think it's pathetic. 0.95

01:36:29.520 It is. 0.99

01:36:29.940 It's a pathetic, uh, thing to support. 0.83

01:36:32.700 I think it's a step, uh, it's, it's, it's once, it's pretty much the end and not pretty 0.87

01:36:39.060 much.

01:36:39.400 Yeah.

01:36:39.660 The end of, it's the end of what the old world and now it's the beginning of the new

01:36:43.260 world.

01:36:43.440 I guess I'm in that limbo state where it's like semi-denial, semi-mourning grief, you

01:36:51.380 know, like, I don't know what's going to come, but I didn't think that it was that, I didn't

01:36:56.780 think it was the end.

01:36:57.820 Well, not happy, no.

01:36:59.940 Ariel, listen, man, it's been a, it's been really great to discuss this with all.

01:37:03.900 Thank you.

01:37:04.480 I hope you know that, um, you know, how much, uh, I certainly empathize with what's happened

01:37:10.280 with you and I, I, I really like your, particularly when you talk about cancer culture, I think

01:37:17.180 you, you're making a very valid point.

01:37:18.620 Like this thing you just said about, I'd rather go to jail and do my time and come out and

01:37:24.040 be clean is really gets to the core of some of the issues that we have with, uh, this whole

01:37:32.200 thing, which is like, it's extrajudicial punishment.

01:37:36.020 It's outside of the legal system.

01:37:37.880 It's meant to get around it.

01:37:39.280 Um, and the consequences are not exactly clear and no one knows, you know, when do

01:37:44.820 you come back and how do you come back?

01:37:47.040 And do you ever get to go to, you know, your favorite restaurant or make music and get it

01:37:51.860 out?

01:37:52.700 Um, but maybe it's because I'm a bit more of an optimist than you.

01:37:57.100 I think this will change.

01:37:58.720 Um, I think, I hope you're right.

01:38:00.240 I think, and I also think that, you know, there's a reason that you had the successful music career

01:38:05.580 that you had, which is you're a very talented musician.

01:38:07.580 No, and there's a reason why this happened to me.

01:38:09.880 And it's the, it's like a, this is a, uh, uh, it's a cocoon and I'm, and I'm, uh, going

01:38:17.280 through metamorphosis.

01:38:18.440 Yes.

01:38:18.840 Yeah.

01:38:19.040 I will blossom.

01:38:20.100 Yes.

01:38:20.400 Yes, you will.

01:38:20.980 That's exactly what I was going to.

01:38:22.420 Yeah.

01:38:22.680 That's absolutely.

01:38:23.580 And I, and I'm, and I'm, I'm still, uh, to be somebody at my age, knowing that that

01:38:28.960 can happen still is, is actually a very thing to be hopeful for.

01:38:32.040 I just had a kid and I'm extremely into, to know that if you're, are we still filming?

01:38:37.000 Yes.

01:38:38.040 To know that, um, uh, to know that, uh, uh, that I, that, that I'm experiencing the, the

01:38:47.740 biggest happiness, the most, you know, this, like, I mean, this is like, this is what it's

01:38:52.220 about this, this, um, to experience, uh, the happiness that I feel at the same time while

01:38:58.880 this is all happening, you know, but, but to have a daughter and it's like, uh, I never

01:39:03.600 thought that that would, uh, happen at, at my age.

01:39:06.320 So, yeah.

01:39:06.680 Yeah.

01:39:06.860 It's a blessing, man.

01:39:07.980 Um, I, I've got a son, uh, first one as well, that's similar to, to your daughter's age.

01:39:12.340 Six months, six months.

01:39:14.540 It's incredible.

01:39:15.900 It's absolutely incredible, which is one of the reasons.

01:39:17.520 It's so much fun.

01:39:17.680 And it's also made me a more positive person as well, because I now feel a responsibility

01:39:22.280 to actually fight for the world that I want my children to grow up in.

01:39:25.860 And that's what I wanted to say is I think this metamorphosis that you're going through,

01:39:30.400 you're going to come out of that at the end, you'll see the world with a different vision

01:39:34.860 and you'll be able to create more of the, of the brilliant work that you've been doing

01:39:38.220 to this point.

01:39:38.860 So I hope so.

01:39:39.740 I wish you all the best, man.

01:39:40.880 And I really appreciate your time.

01:39:42.160 Thank you.

01:39:42.860 So if people want to find you online area, where's the best way to do that?

01:39:45.760 Um, right now, uh, yeah, you can, you can go to my sub stack.

01:39:50.740 I've got a sub stack.

01:39:51.620 It's called, uh, you can just go aerial, aerial pink at, uh, dot sub stack.com.

01:39:59.600 And you put your music out on that.

01:40:01.240 I'm using it as a repository for all sorts of unofficial recordings and stuff like that.

01:40:06.300 So it's, uh, you know, it's just basically a huge dump that I'm putting on everybody,

01:40:11.640 you know, and it's lots of people have always been, you know, lots of,

01:40:15.740 it's for diehard fans as well.

01:40:17.300 And, uh, but it's also for me to sort of like, uh, uh, just, just to put it, put things out

01:40:23.980 that I never have and to just sort of, just to sort of give back and shut people up to,

01:40:29.640 uh, you know, about, you know, what I'm doing and stuff like that.

01:40:31.820 They feel like I'm, you know, just lingering and feeling sorry for myself.

01:40:35.340 I don't, that's not how I do.

01:40:36.820 I'm always making music.

01:40:38.180 It's just, nobody's going to hear it.

01:40:39.700 But no, people will hear it.

01:40:42.260 Go to your sub stack and hear the music.

01:40:44.460 Yes.

01:40:45.000 And tell people as well.

01:40:46.780 Ariel's a brilliant musician.

01:40:47.760 Paid subscription if you are so kind, but you don't have to have one necessarily to hear

01:40:51.940 lots of stuff.

01:40:52.860 So.

01:40:53.260 All right.

01:40:53.560 Well, we've got one final question for you.

01:40:56.040 And then we'll ask you a couple of questions from our supporters that only they will get

01:40:59.760 to see on Locals.

01:41:00.600 Oh, great.

01:41:00.980 So, uh, the final question is always, what's the one thing we're not talking about, but

01:41:04.660 we really should be?

01:41:06.700 Uh, okay.

01:41:07.780 Let me think about it.

01:41:08.440 I should have thought about this before.

01:41:09.880 Okay.

01:41:10.480 Um, uh, let me think that there's a, the one thing that we should be talking about that

01:41:16.960 we should, um, God, man, that, where is my mind?

01:41:27.020 I don't know.

01:41:27.860 That's a good thing to talk about.

01:41:29.280 Yeah.

01:41:29.560 I don't know.

01:41:30.940 That's, that's, that's, that's, that's.

01:41:32.020 Listen, man, we did a long interview, so it doesn't matter too much.

01:41:34.740 Do you mind if we do the audience questions?

01:41:36.460 Of course.

01:41:36.780 Yeah, cool.

01:41:37.480 Very quickly.

01:41:37.800 We've got anything to do.

01:41:38.860 Sign off to the camera. 0.99

01:41:40.460 Oh, shit. 1.00

01:41:40.940 Yeah. 1.00

01:41:41.600 Okay.

01:41:42.440 Uh, uh, Ariel, thanks so much for coming on and thank you guys for watching and listening.

01:41:48.840 Uh, we will be back with another brilliant interview.

01:41:51.040 Probably not quite like this one, but brilliant nonetheless.

01:41:53.880 Uh, or, or show all of them go out at 7 PM UK time.

01:41:57.160 And for those of you who like your trigonometry on the go.

01:41:59.660 It's always available as a podcast.

01:42:01.340 So take care and see you soon, guys.

01:42:03.180 Has your experience with ostracism made you think less of American society?

01:42:09.640 Did it prompt you to consider moving to Israel or Japan, for example?

01:42:13.360 Broadway's smash hit, the Neil Diamond musical, A Beautiful Noise, is coming to Toronto.

01:42:25.140 The true story of a kid from Brooklyn destined for something more, featuring all the songs

01:42:29.640 you love, including America, Forever in Blue Jeans, and Sweet Caroline.

01:42:34.400 Like Jersey Boys and Beautiful, the next musical mega hit is here.

01:42:38.280 The Neil Diamond musical, A Beautiful Noise.

01:42:41.220 Now through June 7th, 2026 at the Princess of Wales Theatre.

01:42:45.420 Get tickets at mirvish.com.

TRIGGERnometry - December 12, 2022

Ariel Pink：＂I Lost My Career for Attending Peaceful Trump Rally＂

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

TRIGGERnometry - December 12, 2022

Ariel Pink： ＂I Lost My Career for Attending Peaceful Trump Rally＂

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Ariel Pink：＂I Lost My Career for Attending Peaceful Trump Rally＂