＂Black People Don't Need Saving＂ - Adam B. Coleman
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 5 minutes
Words per minute
182.59062
Harmful content
Misogyny
39
sentences flagged
Toxicity
76
sentences flagged
Hate speech
44
sentences flagged
Summary
In this episode of Trigonometry on Location, we speak to author Adam Coleman about his new book, Black Victim to Black Victor. Adam talks about his journey to becoming a writer and how he became a writer, and why he decided to write a book.
Transcript
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The narrative went from this was an incident that is unfortunate and maybe we need to look
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at police reform to the narrative of black men are constantly in fear, we're always in
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danger and that racism is the number one issue affecting us.
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How did we get to this point in just a matter of days?
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To me it just removed our individuality and we just became this collective that was just
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I mean it's the truth to say that we can inflict pain much easier and we are dangerous to society
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if we're not under control and the job of the father is to control the energy of the boy.
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I think gangs are a result of lost boys and then they grow up to become lost men and I
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think one of the things that a lot of people don't understand, especially women don't understand
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So I think purpose is extremely important for kids and I think if you're talking about like
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gang violence in particular that's one of those areas that you see what happens when you don't
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If I label someone as a white supremacist then what?
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So I'm one of those people who actually doesn't want to fight the language.
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I'm going to use the language, I'm just going to redefine it.
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If the leftists get to redefine words, if they get to redefine racism,
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redefine blackness and whiteness and all these different things then screw it.
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I'm going to redefine it too and use it to my advantage just like them.
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Hello and welcome to Trigonometry on location whilst our brand new studio is being built.
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And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.
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Our brilliant guest today is a writer and the author of Black Victim to Black Victor.
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Listen, thank you for having us in your Airbnb here in London.
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We were supposed to have you in the studio but life got in the way.
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But we're really excited to have you on the show.
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Tell everybody before we get into it, who are you?
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What has been the journey through life that leads you to be sitting here talking to us?
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I would say that I generally say I'm a typical American.
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I was working a regular IT job but kind of got involved in the culture war.
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Just watching you guys, watching other podcasts and just learning.
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And there became a moment where I felt like my voice, someone who's actually saying things that I wanted to be heard, wasn't actually saying it.
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The narrative went from this was an incident that is unfortunate and maybe we need to look at police reform to the narrative of Black men are constantly in fear, we're always in danger, and that racism is the number one issue affecting us.
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And I thought that narrative was insulting. I thought that narrative was incomplete and not true whatsoever.
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The number one issue facing Black Americans is family. We have a dysfunctional family issue as far as separation goes.
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And I wanted the opportunity to talk about it and write about it, but write about it in a way that is of substance.
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You know, there are people who I generally agree with, maybe even conservatives who talk about family values and the importance of fathers and men, but I always felt like it was incomplete.
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They said it like it was something that people are just supposed to know, rather than explaining so people fully understand the ramifications of not having both parents within the home.
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So, I wrote my book to actually tell my personal story, and also examine and analyze a whole bunch of different areas of what we would consider Black culture.
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But I'm very open about my childhood and how it affected me, and I think it sticks out for people who read it because most of the time people don't talk about this thing.
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They pretend that everything was fine. They pretend that everything was fine, you know, they made it through, I'm alive, and everything is fine after that.
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But I wanted to paint a realistic picture that my life was tumultuous because my father wasn't there.
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I remember a woman who came to my mother and said, you can stay with me and my trailer, I have one room.
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And so myself, my mom, and my sister stayed in one room for at least a month or so before my mom got back on her feet.
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But I remember bouncing in and out of hotels, you know, just to have some place to sleep, meanwhile going to school, and my mom's working.
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So, you know, having one income earner within the home can put you in that risk of going in and out of homelessness and fighting for survival.
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But I just couldn't stand the narrative of single parenthood as being this wonderful achievement.
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And no matter what you do, everything is fine, and we're incapable of saying that, hey, maybe this isn't the best idea for your children.
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And we've put so much on female empowerment that we ignore the kids.
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And one of the interesting things about your story as well is you became a dad at quite a young age yourself.
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You haven't had a dad or, as you talk about, even a male role model your entire life.
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And then suddenly you're supposed to teach this new creature how to be a man.
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Well, the first thing I told myself is that I wasn't going to be my father.
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I remember specifically holding my son and thinking that.
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So it's a pretty low bar because my father wasn't there.
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So, you know, I always just tried to be the father that I thought I wanted for myself.
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You know, do I really need to spank my son?
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And he was pretty young when I decided, like, I don't want to do this anymore.
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And I realized I was repeating behavior that I had learned from when I was a kid.
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Because my mom, you know, she's managing this boy.
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And all she knows is physicality to keep him in line when she didn't actually have to do that.
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We're both very, I don't want to say, like, intellectual, but, like, introspective.
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You can explain to me what I did wrong, and I won't do it again.
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So basically, since I said I'm not going to spank him, I just stopped spanking him.
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And we have a great relationship because we talk and we communicate.
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So, you know, it's those different things that I just tried to figure out what works and what feels natural.
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And much of what I talk about is what feels natural for men, what feels natural for me as a man.
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And once I started going towards what felt natural, everything kind of just fell into place.
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But as far as becoming a man for myself, I've said I've probably been a man for about five years, and I'm 38.
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And it's because it's this long, arduous journey because I'm starting from ground zero as an adult.
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And figuring out that maybe I need to constantly improve because I'm failing over and over and over.
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Even though someone might say, you're doing a great job, I don't feel like I'm, you know, doing the best job.
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So it's just constantly re-examining my life and wanting to constantly improve to become the person I am today.
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And what does it mean to you, Adam, to be a man?
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Protecting people, especially people you care about, people you love, protect your children.
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That's why I talk so much about the need to, you know, fight against mutilating children.
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Because our job as men is to stick up for our kids and not allow perverts to come in and tell you to, you know, chop up your kids because they feel off.
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We need to protect our children and our society.
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But as far as being a man, I mean, those are just a few things that are highly important.
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And as a teacher, I saw the effect that not having a father in the home had on young boys.
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Why is it, do you think, that we just keep perpetuating this myth?
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When you have one sex that is infallible, then, like, nothing ever changes.
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You can only have change when you can recognize mistakes.
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But if they don't make mistakes, we can't change.
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And everything that they do is perfect, so we can criticize it.
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You know what, it's weird because I agree with you that, yes, there is a taboo about making criticisms of female behavior.
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But I also think that single parenthood is quite often, as it was in your case, well, look, I don't know, maybe it wasn't, but quite often the fault of the man, actually.
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And it's the man that wasn't there and the man that, now, look, you might say the woman, you know, behaved in certain ways that made sure he wasn't there.
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Often it's just a man who can get away with having kids with multiple women.
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So is it really a case of it's like the women's fault that they're single mothers or is that, was it, maybe that's not even what you were saying.
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And I'll use, I don't think I'm talking too much out of turn, but I'll use my mom as an example.
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Not too long ago, I asked my mom, did you ever want to get married?
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And so for me, that tells me that she wasn't marriage minded.
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But is that the best scenario to raise children in?
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And we know statistic after statistic, that's not the best way to raise children.
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And so she picked a man who was unavailable to have two children with.
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And so, you know, this is not to be harsh with my mother.
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But the reality is that she didn't make the best decision.
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And my father wasn't there because he was never going to be there.
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He was never going to be involved in my life other than paying child support through the state.
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So as much as I hear what you're saying, and we're very quick to say deadbeat dads,
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there's a lot of questions we had about women who specifically do not want to get married.
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They're finding ways to freeze their eggs.
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They're finding ways to find some sort of way that they can have children,
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And because we don't talk about enough the effect that not having a dad has on kids.
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So what do you think the effect is of fatherlessness in homes?
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You know, there's the boundary aspect as far as understanding.
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And you need to teach them how to control their energy.
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There's a reason why rough and tumble play is so important for boys, especially,
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is because you teach them boundaries when they go too far.
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You also teach them how to control their emotions.
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Someone who's ready to assault you just like that is someone who doesn't know the boundaries,
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who doesn't know how to control their emotions.
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And so that is why you see violent offenders typically come from single-parent homes.
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They usually lack a male authority figure to teach them how to control that energy.
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And we are dangerous to society if we're not under control.
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And the job of the father is to control the energy of the boy.
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So for me, you know, thankfully, I think more genetically, I'm just a calm kid.
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But the other side of that is that I was very vulnerable.
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And when I was about five, we moved out of Detroit where I was born.
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And we moved to actually four states before I was 18.
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But I always ask, what if we stayed in Detroit?
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You know, I know the state of Detroit's public school system, right?
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And Detroit hasn't changed much since the 80s when I was born.
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Would I have been dragged into these different things?
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People could have led me into different directions.
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And I didn't have a male authority figure to say, you need to leave these people alone.
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And some might say, well, your mother can tell you that.
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And when we talk about, in particular, black boys and their vulnerability, and also as
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well, the fact that they're more likely to be murdered, they're more likely to be murdered
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Do you attribute that to fatherlessness and a lot of black boys growing up in a home without
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Gangs are some sort of group association with male activity.
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And I think one of the things that a lot of people don't understand, especially women,
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don't understand about men, is that we're purpose-driven, right?
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If someone said, your job is to take this hammer and nail things, you've been given purpose.
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That's why gangs are attractive to lost kids who were never given purpose, never shown how
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That's why you see kids who just kind of act out in class because they're like, what's
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I have no purpose in this particular environment.
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So I think purpose is extremely important for kids.
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And I think if you're talking about like gang violence in particular, that's one of those
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areas that you see what happens when you don't give young men purpose.
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And do you think the problem is as well as role models?
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They don't see, you know, they look at the role models and who are the role models that
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It's somebody maybe in sports or entertainment.
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But the reality is very few people make it in that arena.
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And honestly, for young men, your role model should be your father, right?
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And that's what, that's how I see like everything through the prism of family.
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And he's, you're supposed to reflect what he puts out and become something productive
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But if that's not there, then like you said, where do you, where do you get it from?
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And a lot of people get it from local, if you're in a negative area, someone who's
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local to you and whether it's negative or positive, you're just searching for some
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And if you see that something works or appears to work, then you're just going to go in that
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But I think as far as role models go, it needs to be fathers.
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And I think we've honed in too much on the role model aspect of just saying any man will
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And actually, that's part of the problem with a lot of women who do end up in single
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They say, well, I need to get a stepfather because any man will do, right?
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And they don't understand that on top of opening up all different types of vulnerabilities to
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It's an interesting set of interesting points that you make.
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I think as a new father myself, that's one of the things that I'm thinking about all the
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time is like, oh wow, like someone looking to me now, I've got to be, you were talking
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about this earlier, you've got to be the best version of you because you are now a role
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So you've got to get your own emotions under control.
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You've got to, you know, you've got to be conscious about how you are in the world.
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But moving on slightly onto the sort of broader political stuff that you touched on earlier,
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we interviewed a woman called Mary Eberstadt a while ago who wrote a book called Primal
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Screams, how the sexual revolution created identity politics.
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And her central argument is essentially this, that if you have generation upon generation
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generation of children growing up in broken homes, essentially, you know, if you use that
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term, of course they're looking for some kind of group to belong to.
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Of course they want to go, oh, I'm black, therefore other black people, you know, all of that.
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Do you, do you see that as a contributing factor to this identity politics stuff that we now
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Yeah, you know, I noticed that the people who, for example, I notice, not sorry, I notice
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people who grow up in two parent homes, happy two parent homes, and how they're not so much
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in love with, you know, the pigmentation of their skin, right?
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They're in love with being, whether they're a Christian, being a mother, a father.
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They have so many other things identity-wise that are more important than the color of
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I see people who grow up in dysfunction who are looking for some sort of group association,
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I even went through a phase of that where I'm searching for who am I, you know, and I got
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into a little bit of the, I would identify as like a neo-Marxist kind of stuff, listening
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And I was like, oh, this guy's kind of interesting.
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And he actually happens to be white, but him among other...
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But, you know, just listen to other speakers and stuff like that.
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I remember hearing the new age term for racism, power post-privilege.
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You know, and I remember hearing all these different things.
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I know I keep in trouble, but I'm just really curious about this part of it.
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But how does someone who is listening to these kind of narratives look around and see that
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What did you see that wasn't congruent with that worldview?
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I've been in relationships with women who are white.
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You know, I've grown up in neighborhoods where I'm the minority.
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I've grown up in neighborhoods where I'm of mixed other kids.
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And so this idea that there's like this legacy of white people who are just passing on generation
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and generation to hate black people, I'm not seeing it to the level that these people
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And I think one of the things that I didn't like is that they're preaching animosity.
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Like they want me to feel resentful of, not of this person's issue, but of their grandparents
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and theoretically their grandparents, because maybe it wasn't their grandparents.
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For all I know, their grandparents were in Italy.
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And now I'm supposed to hate you because of someone from...
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You know, to me, it just didn't make any sense to live my life in such a resentful, angry
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And I'm troubled by people who are preaching that.
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Don't forgive these people who had absolutely nothing to do with what you're doing, who
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are laying all types of excuses for someone's personal failures.
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It reminds me of a conversation I had with a family member of mine who, you know, he doesn't
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preach this per se, but he would consider himself pro-black.
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Does it help you to have multiple baby mamas, right?
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If you think the white man is oppressing you, how does it help you to have two baby mamas
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How does it help you to have a separation of a family?
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How does that help you when you could have two, right?
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If white people are setting up a system where we're going to make less, why do you have
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less people in the household who can make less?
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You know, so I'm just being very logical about the situation of the world around me.
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Even if you want to be pro-black and believe in all this stuff, let's go back to family.
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Build up the family and you'll change all different types of outcomes.
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So talking about thinking logically and not thinking logically, summer of 2020, you brought
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This terrible thing happens and it was a terrible thing that happened.
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What was your, you said you had some thoughts about that that weren't being reflected.
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My take on it was, well, for me, I'm one of those people who likes to sit back and watch
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So not even, it wasn't necessarily George Floyd, but it was the reaction to George Floyd
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And it was like watching people, let's say they were black, people that I knew who had
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happy, successful lives, all of a sudden became victims.
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And it was like they were talking about a world that they were not living in whatsoever.
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And I'm just like, how did we get to this point in just a matter of days where everybody,
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It felt like America was having a panic attack.
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And they were, as someone who's suffered from panic attacks, it just looking like a rational
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And I'm like, but look around you, everything's actually fine.
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Like, this is unfortunate, but this black person has nothing to do with you, right?
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Let them fight that fight with George Floyd, but your world is not George Floyd's world.
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But it just felt like the media was all in on using basically black plight as some motivating
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So I just had a problem with, and I'm going to use the group identity, them labeling black
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And actually, it reminded me of an article I wrote for the New York Post talking about
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actually Jonathan Capehart, who wrote this op-ed after Buffalo's mass shooting, which
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they say, you know, there's white supremacists who targeted a black neighborhood and shot the
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But he made this vision of black people constantly in fear, and he's hinting at leaving the country
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This millionaire who lives in D.C., he's not leaving the country, right?
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But at the end, he makes himself the hero and says, I'm not leaving.
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And I thought to myself, white supremacy is the constant picturing of black people as being
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fearful, scared, incapable, and the only way they can succeed is by white people's good
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grace or the government coming in and doing something for them.
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I'm watching white supremacy happening in front of me of them saying, look at these poor black
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You have white intellectuals who, you know, the Robin DeAngelos and all these different
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people who are coming out and say, look at the black play.
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We have to do something for these people, right?
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Like, and just because I am black doesn't mean I share the same experience as this other
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Just like you're white and you don't share the same experience as every other white person.
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00:28:44.480
Like, to me, it just removed our individuality and we just became this collective that was just
00:28:49.560
weak and feeble and everybody must do for us and everybody must say our narrative and speak
00:28:55.020
And then what made it worse is that we have the black bourgeoisie that goes out there and
1.00
00:28:59.540
repeats these narratives because they get social benefits from them.
0.54
00:29:02.400
They get the affirmative action out of this narrative, right?
0.64
00:29:08.200
They get to go to the Ivy League schools and have their kids go to the Ivy League schools
00:29:13.780
It doesn't benefit any other black person.
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00:29:15.740
Just like it doesn't benefit any other black person when a black head coach gets hired and
0.99
00:29:20.500
they become a millionaire all of a sudden.
0.60
00:29:23.280
But I'm supposed to clap and cheer of, you know, the benevolence of the NFL for hiring
00:29:29.200
So there's a class element to it as well that I constantly bring up.
00:29:34.540
But that story with Jonathan Capehart pissed me off so much that I wanted to say that he's
00:29:41.340
the black face of white supremacy, not Larry Elder, right?
0.87
00:29:45.320
And if we're going to have black face of white supremacy, then this is the guy who's doing
0.97
00:29:51.080
Adam, doesn't it worry you that we just bandy the term white supremacy about just willy-nilly?
00:29:57.060
And you think this is actually something very, very serious.
00:30:04.840
And all we do when we use this term over and over again is we just devalue it.
00:30:10.400
And I think we should devalue it because it's not that much of value anyways.
00:30:17.180
If I label someone as a white supremacist, then what?
00:30:25.280
So I'm one of those people who actually doesn't want to fight the language.
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00:30:31.260
If the leftists get to redefine words, if they get to redefine racism, redefine blackness
0.97
00:30:36.680
and whiteness and all these different things, then screw it.
00:30:39.100
I'm going to redefine it too and use it to my advantage just like them.
00:30:43.780
Because I think we shouldn't fight language as hard as we're trying to because it makes
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00:30:55.660
You know, like, it was like, oh, a white supremacist would say that.
00:30:59.020
And so we should actually use the words to our advantage because you can, right?
00:31:08.520
I use it to my advantage by redefining them, just like how they use it to their advantage
00:31:12.460
The reason they're able to get away with racist narratives is because they redefine
00:31:17.600
And so it's our job now to redefine the redefinition of racism back to its appropriate point.
00:31:24.460
It's our turn to use their lingo and use it against them to prove our point as to what
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00:31:38.440
I'm not going to fight the usage of the word and we use it too much.
00:31:41.420
I'm going to leave it in the lexicon and redefine it.
00:31:45.120
Because now then they're on the back foot of saying, well, you know, we'll just use
00:31:53.080
Bring up another word and I'll fight it if you try to redefine it.
00:31:56.300
So I want us to battle the definitions of words and keep redefining it.
00:32:03.700
Rather than trying to say this word shouldn't be used as much because it minimizes.
00:32:11.920
I remember years ago, no one ever said white supremacy.
00:32:20.180
The only thing we can do is redefine it to its appropriate usage.
00:32:24.980
Do you not think as well that it's very dangerous when they use these words?
00:32:30.000
Because like I said, there are genuine white supremacists and they'll just say, well, everybody's
00:32:39.380
So they can kind of hide under the cover of this word being misused or misappropriated.
00:32:47.360
I think we genuinely have white supremacists, but we don't define it the way that it should
00:32:52.720
I think the majority of social progressives are white supremacists.
00:32:56.840
So that's why I actually think we should keep the word in the lexicon because these
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00:33:00.780
You know, a lot of them are the black elite who cape for them.
0.98
00:33:06.440
They're the white elite who are socially progressive, who are in all of our institutions.
0.86
00:33:17.120
They're actually white supremacists in my eyes.
0.92
00:33:20.360
White supremacy in its actual definition is the belief that the white people are genetically
00:33:25.380
inherently superior to everybody else and should have power in society because of that.
00:33:29.620
So how are social progressives white supremacists under that definition?
00:33:33.580
Well, I would say they're white supremacists by action, right?
00:33:37.980
So if you say the only way that Adam can succeed is if I do something for him, that places you
00:33:46.440
It makes you stronger than me because I can't do for myself.
00:33:50.260
And that is the environment that we currently live in as far as in the media and as far as
00:33:57.620
The poor black people, they need our help.
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00:34:01.240
And I think one of the things you talk about in Black Victim to Black Victor is the idea
00:34:11.140
And so this ideology is particularly appealing to certain people who want to be victims
00:34:15.920
and want government help or other people to look after them or whatever.
00:34:19.620
But even more so, it's really appealing to people who want to help the poor downtrodden
00:34:28.540
That is, that's actually going to be the topic of my next book is the saviorism, saviorism
00:34:36.620
That is something that is motivating a lot of our society, regardless of race.
00:34:41.580
People who want to save the world, people who want to save the unfortunate transgender
1.00
00:34:49.460
Everybody just feels like they must do to save other people.
00:34:53.280
But they're given the illusion that it's, they're only doing it to help other people,
00:35:03.200
They're forcing other people to become activists and take these initiatives.
00:35:08.160
They're, they're doing it to promote themselves.
00:35:17.560
I think that's the best way of kind of putting it.
00:35:19.380
It's very narcissistic vision that I must do for other people because they can't do for
00:35:24.840
And they'll use every, every angle, every statistic, every possibility to make sure that
00:35:29.940
people understand that I must do these things for society because I must save society.
00:35:36.360
But don't you think as well, Adam, there might be a more kind of basic explanation to it,
00:35:41.160
which is it's much easier to save someone else or than to actually deal with your own
0.98
00:35:46.880
problems, you know, because dealing with your own problems, let's be fair, it's fucking
0.98
00:35:51.960
Whereas going and, you know, fighting for the world or whatever else, you know, you don't
00:35:56.420
have to deal with the fact that maybe you're not good at X, Y, and Z.
00:36:00.660
And even fighting for the world is an empty gesture.
00:36:06.100
Is you holding a picket sign actually changing much of anything?
00:36:10.200
I mean, it's very low bar activity to change something.
00:36:16.240
Is sitting in the middle of the road actually going to stop climate change in your vision?
00:36:25.480
But it's even more damning when they put themselves at the center focus.
00:36:33.560
They're willing to do it despite it hurting other people.
00:36:36.860
They're willing to do it despite how it makes other people look, how it inconveniences you
00:36:44.460
They want to sit in the road because me saving society is more important than you going to
00:36:51.180
So it's a much more, I would say, malevolent kind of activity that people don't really recognize.
00:36:59.740
Or at least they haven't been able to define it the way I'm trying to define it.
00:37:04.740
But I think it's much so saviorism that is just plaguing, at least America and probably here,
00:37:12.660
And the most powerful people have it the worst.
00:37:15.960
Well, we import all your crap, so no doubt, whichever way America goes, we'll get it.
0.98
00:37:21.420
But it sounds to me like in some ways what I'm hearing out of our conversation is actually
0.95
00:37:25.620
the answer to this saviorist activism isn't counter-activism, actually.
00:37:32.780
It's perhaps promoting some very old-fashioned things like the ones we've been talking about
00:37:39.540
from the beginning, which is family, you know, agency, the idea that your job is to better
00:37:48.020
your own life and to improve yourself as opposed to looking out into the world and go, oh, this
00:37:53.360
is what needs to change and these people need my help with this.
00:37:56.020
Actually, look inside, you know, are you a parent?
00:38:06.620
Or do you think that there's more structural stuff that needs to happen as well?
00:38:11.220
I think if you're going to change anything in society, you have to start within your own
00:38:18.900
If family disappears and the vision of family disappears, then our society disappears.
00:38:25.280
I think that is the number one thing that we need to focus on.
00:38:29.480
And I think it means something when we're watching things that look incredibly different
00:38:35.900
And then we're looking at aspects of the society where it's like, this is terrible.
00:38:42.500
And when I tell people that the United States is number one in single parenthood, and I look
00:38:47.180
at all these different areas, and I know that what happens behaviorally for kids who grow
00:38:51.160
up in single parent homes, what they're more likely to do.
00:38:54.620
You know, people like to say the United States incarcerates the most people.
00:38:59.760
Like, you think they're just happy one day and woke up and just started breaking the law,
00:39:07.200
A lot of times, it is a cycle that leads down to this point where they get caught up into
00:39:12.840
They feel like they have no other choice or they have no control over their impulses because
00:39:17.360
no one taught them how to control their impulses.
00:39:19.360
Because, you know, you have all these different things, these different areas that come down
00:39:23.320
to what happens at the family affects the rest of society.
00:39:27.320
And then for the people who fail to properly raise their children, to manage their family,
00:39:36.180
You now have to pay more security for your home because of a degenerate who grew up in a
00:39:41.700
dysfunctional home now wants to take your stuff, right?
00:39:45.040
You now have to be worried about your safety as you're walking down the street at night
00:39:49.080
because someone who's coming from a messed up home who's now addicted to cover for that
00:39:54.700
pain is now trying to take something from you or willing to harm you to get what they
00:40:00.620
The rest of society pays for the failures of families.
00:40:03.500
And I don't think people fully understand that.
00:40:05.480
Hey, Francis, if you were a member of the public, would you like the opportunity to ask incredible
00:40:12.180
guests like Bill Burr, Jordan Peterson, Sam Harris, Adam Carolla, Brett Weinstein, John
00:40:18.420
Barnes, Douglas Murray, Nigel Farage and Lionel Shriver your own questions?
00:40:24.760
And what do you think the best way to do that would be?
00:40:29.820
You'd have to corner them in the supermarket, probably round near like the sort of frozen
00:40:34.560
food aisles and then just bark questions at them before they can escape.
00:40:41.960
And you'd have to be extra careful with the females, as that's how I got in trouble last
1.00
00:40:47.420
Can you really imagine you're going to get Douglas Murray near the frozen food aisle?
00:40:50.880
If you want to ask our incredible guest questions and have access to phenomenal behind
00:40:55.480
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If I have to get them executed, I'm the one that goes to jail.
0.97
00:42:14.520
Only $7 a month for all that incredible content.
00:42:25.040
It's a tough message to hear, but it's a necessary one.
00:42:28.200
Do you think we're ever going to have this conversation in the mainstream in an open and
00:42:32.740
Or do you think we're always going to just try and brush it under the carpet simply because
00:42:39.940
I think the fact that I'm sitting here talking to you about this is a good sign.
00:42:44.920
And I see other people who are starting to talk about the importance of men, importance
00:42:50.160
of fathers, how it's affecting them, how it's affecting their kids.
00:42:53.780
I think feminism has brought a raw deal to families and especially to women.
1.00
00:43:00.040
I think feminism hates women, to be honest with you.
1.00
00:43:02.740
But I think that aspect of just going full force into feminism and to say women are infallible
1.00
00:43:10.720
and just not caring about how this viewpoint affects children, how it affects the fathers,
00:43:18.420
how it affects anything else between this bond between the mother and the father and children
00:43:24.100
and just going towards high individualism, high self-preservation, like no sacrifice.
00:43:33.940
You know, it's that kind of, it's kind of a sick world that we're promoting, that we're
00:43:40.180
saying this is perfectly fine because this is what this person wants and everything is
00:43:50.860
I remember years ago when I was a kid, someone who would have a child out of wedlock was sometimes
00:44:06.240
And we're not willing to criticize people who are involved in those particular situations.
00:44:11.520
I actually agree with almost everything you said, but I'm just, I want to ask you what
00:44:16.280
you mean when you say feminism hates women.
1.00
00:44:20.680
Because we have feminists who watch our show.
1.00
00:44:24.160
And I think the difficulty with a statement like that for me is there's about 73 different
00:44:31.800
And if at the basic core of it, you're talking about men and women should be treated fairly
00:44:39.140
I don't think you have any issue with that either.
00:44:41.340
So what kind of feminism are you talking about and what do you mean exactly?
1.00
00:44:45.040
I would say, because everybody has different waves, I would say modern feminism.
1.00
00:44:49.520
So modern feminism hates women because it tells them to be everything that isn't natural
1.00
00:44:56.200
It says in order for you to succeed in the world, you must be like men.
0.85
00:44:59.900
So you must be aggressive like men, but they always come out to be too aggressive because
00:45:04.420
men are usually, successful men are measured in their aggressiveness.
00:45:20.700
And I think a lot of women end up hurt because of it and they're unhappy because of it.
0.99
00:45:24.600
You know, I consume all different types of content and I sometimes watch content where women are
1.00
00:45:30.760
in their mid to the late 30s and 40s who are regretful because they did want children, but
00:45:36.120
they were told not to have children or they did want to get married, but they were told
00:45:39.980
that marriage is old fashioned and you don't need to get married.
0.58
00:45:43.660
You know, they're being told to do things that isn't natural to them.
00:45:48.160
And they're now regretful when, you know, they start to leave that bubble of feminism.
1.00
00:45:54.880
And it actually, feminism really promotes things that benefit men, especially very successful men
0.95
00:46:01.780
or men who are able to swindle women, so to speak, or who are very attracted to women.
0.96
00:46:08.860
You know, we're no longer allowed to criticize female sexuality whatsoever.
1.00
00:46:16.260
But now it's like, it doesn't even matter if it's reckless sex.
0.94
00:46:25.560
Men who can get a lot of sex, they benefit from it.
0.77
00:46:27.980
So I'm asking myself, like, how is feminism actually helping women today?
00:46:35.380
They're taking more pharmaceutical drugs, at least in the United States, they're taking
00:46:38.520
a lot of pharmaceutical drugs to suppress this uneasiness.
00:46:45.920
It's an interesting point that you make because one of our best recent interviews is with a woman
00:46:50.060
called Louise Perry, who's written a book called The Case Against the Sexual Revolution.
00:46:54.340
And I think she's going to be, over time, develop into almost like a Petersonian type
00:46:59.180
figure, because in the same way that Jordan Peterson had a message for men that they have
00:47:04.080
not heard, but really needed to hear, which is, your job as a man is to get better and improve
00:47:13.220
The only way you're going to get anything is by being different, is by being better,
00:47:18.120
is by working harder, is by being true to who you are, et cetera.
00:47:22.080
And that's why I think Jordan Peterson became such a huge figure, because he came in at the
00:47:28.440
And I think Louise, who is talking about actually just, she puts it in a more delicate way than
00:47:34.860
But her message is similar, which is, we've been sold a lie.
00:47:40.660
And when I, you know, as a new father, I see the transformation of my wife becoming a
00:47:48.800
I think a lot of women haven't been reminded, at least, that that option is still there.
1.00
00:47:54.000
You could be a mum first and do other things second.
0.99
00:47:57.560
And quite often, that will be the most fulfilling thing that you do do.
00:48:01.720
And society hasn't been good at communicating that to women, I think.
00:48:06.500
And I think you're going to start to see that change, as you say, as the generation, our
00:48:11.120
generation of women, who are getting to the point where they're not quite childbearing
1.00
00:48:17.200
Disappointed in some of the choices they've made.
00:48:21.400
And I wouldn't be surprised if, like, people who are in their 20s now start having kids
00:48:26.220
younger, actually, despite all the difficulties, the housing crisis and all of that.
00:48:30.320
But speaking of the younger generation, I wanted to ask you if you think this will naturally
00:48:37.500
turn, or do you think, you know, it's not going to be a kind of action-reaction type
00:48:48.300
But I don't think the change is going to necessarily happen within this generation.
00:48:55.740
I think sometimes what happens is you have to see the mistakes of the previous generation.
00:49:00.320
to realize, like, maybe we shouldn't do that, you know?
00:49:09.900
To progress just for progress's sake, like, it doesn't make any sense.
00:49:23.480
And we have to ask the question, why are we being told this?
00:49:32.760
And so that's why I think it's important that we disconnect, right?
00:49:36.740
We disconnect from social media every so often.
00:49:39.260
We disconnect from the television, movies, because they are putting out certain messages.
00:49:51.080
You know, they're showing these particular messages.
00:49:53.780
But when you disconnect from it, and then you go and look and just ask yourself, like, who's happy?
00:50:00.500
And I look at people who are in long-term relationships, they look happy, right?
00:50:12.740
I would say the happiest people are the people that I've seen that who are in long-term successful relationships.
00:50:17.340
The most depressed, the most depressed, the unhappiest, tend to be people who struggle with relationships.
00:50:26.780
And they struggle sometimes because of their own doing.
00:50:32.220
And they're moving away from things because they feel that it is beneath them.
00:50:39.180
Like, for example, it's perfectly fine to cook for your man.
0.50
00:50:46.940
And it's also fine that if he protects you, like, that's not beneath him.
00:50:51.000
That is something that he's doing for you as well.
00:50:53.580
Like, we have exchanges within relationships, gives and takes, sacrifices.
00:51:00.800
But I think it's important that we sacrifice for each other.
00:51:06.680
And how are you going to be a selfish parent, right?
00:51:13.920
I'm not going to do this because they're more important.
00:51:17.960
And I think that is the magic of becoming a parent.
00:51:20.280
That's what made me a better man growing up was saying, like, I got to stop messing around.
00:51:27.040
I got to do whatever I have to do to make sure that my son is good.
00:51:31.620
And so you asked before, like, growing up, becoming a man, a lot of it had to do with my son.
00:51:36.820
And having him early forced me to say, this is bigger than me.
00:51:41.760
And now today, now that he's 17, for me, speaking up and saying something is the most important thing for me to do.
00:51:49.820
Because I don't want him to say, how come my dad didn't say something?
00:51:54.040
How come my dad was sitting back and acting like a coward?
00:52:01.640
And it doesn't seem like it takes a lot of effort to really just, like, say something.
00:52:08.520
You know, for me to sit down and write a book, and I had never written anything before.
00:52:13.200
And to go into it and express myself and put it out there.
00:52:18.900
Part of the reason I wrote that book is because of my son.
00:52:21.800
I wanted to write a book years prior, but I didn't know what to write about.
00:52:25.620
But the reason I wanted to write a book is because I was thinking about my legacy and what I wanted to leave for my son.
00:52:30.560
So my son is my legacy, but I wanted to leave something that he can always remember and be proud of his father about.
00:52:35.920
So that is part of the reason why I wrote my book.
00:52:39.540
And he understands his father much more after reading this book.
00:52:44.480
And I'm just trying to show people, like, do something.
00:52:51.260
And if I can get up one day and just sit down and write and express myself and put myself out there for criticism and be critical of the world around me and have some success because of it, like, why can't other people do it?
00:53:04.680
But, you know, you have to become an example for your kids.
00:53:07.660
If you sit back and you cower and you cry and complain and you do nothing about it, you're teaching that to your kids as well.
00:53:14.440
So I tell my son to question everything, including me, and do something about it.
00:53:19.480
If you don't like how something is, go and do something about it.
00:53:26.160
And if I'm going to tell him that, I have to do it as well.
00:53:29.940
It's interesting that you mentioned that because having my son had the exact same effect on me, like, right away because I went, okay, look, I oppose identity politics because I just think it's racist.
00:53:43.400
And I've always done it and I've always said it and I've taken the risks and we've done the show together talking about it or whatever.
0.99
00:53:49.440
But the moment he was born, I was like, wait, there are idiots out there who are going to judge him this pure thing that is just pure potentiality.
0.98
00:54:08.460
I'm not prepared to live in a world in which that's happening and I haven't said anything.
00:54:17.420
And, you know, I remember years ago I asked him, like, do you see yourself as black or white?
00:54:27.380
And it's unfair to put kids who are in mixed race situations to pick one side and, you know, I think it's just an unfair world.
00:54:36.180
Like you said, the identity politics creates rather than seeing us as humans with superficial differences.
00:54:45.440
My son looks like me, but just a little bit lighter skinned.
00:54:51.740
And he's going to grow up to be someone who is beneficial for society.
00:55:06.960
You know, we're always going to find some sort of group orientation.
00:55:12.420
It's when it becomes the only thing that we care about and the only thing that we focus on.
00:55:16.900
And saying that we are completely different because you have more pigmentation or less pigmentation.
00:55:23.600
That's when we start going down a realm that feels dirty, in my opinion.
00:55:27.600
And it doesn't even matter who the perpetrators are.
00:55:29.280
It doesn't matter if they're black or white, Hispanic.
00:55:32.280
But there is something wrong about wholly prejudging people based off of characteristics.
00:55:39.640
And I think we've seen what happened in human history when we went down that path wholeheartedly.
00:55:43.900
And also as well, the thing to bear in mind, Adam, is in a few years, this is not going to matter because we're all going to be transracial anyway.
00:55:49.680
We're going to be able to identify as whatever we want.
00:55:53.460
Following in the footsteps of the great man, Justin Trudeau.
00:56:08.640
Part of the reason I'm speaking out is because I feel like the average American doesn't have a voice.
00:56:14.040
And I feel like I am much of the average American.
00:56:17.780
I'm much of the average American economically, life experience.
00:56:21.960
And, you know, obviously I went through some things that maybe other people didn't go through.
00:56:28.160
And when I talk to other people, they're average people too.
00:56:30.660
And we have, like, all these narratives that are being created by a certain group of people about us.
00:56:36.900
But I'm like, none of these people are like this.
00:56:40.580
Like I said, I've lived in four states before I was 18.
00:56:45.580
But I've seen all different types of areas and different people.
00:56:50.800
You know, this idea that people are just waking up waiting to hate somebody.
00:56:55.160
You know, overall, that's our mainstream viewpoint as Americans.
00:56:59.140
Americans, that's not the America that I live in.
1.00
00:57:03.840
And the American people don't have a voice within the media, within society that is being projected like, hey, we're fine.
00:57:14.780
Like, I really don't care that Adam is black.
1.00
00:57:18.480
But I care that he's a good person and all these different things.
00:57:23.880
One of my favorite things about living in Tennessee was that people just come up and talk to you.
00:57:29.600
You know, and being from New Jersey, I'm not used to that.
00:57:31.860
But I would be standing in line and some lady, she was an older white lady, she'd just come and talk to me and start telling me about her family.
1.00
00:57:41.380
She just, she saw me as a person there and she was just communicating with me.
00:57:45.400
And that's been my experience for a lot of different places that I've lived at.
00:57:48.960
Obviously, I've had some racial incidences, but I could count them on one hand, thankfully.
1.00
00:57:57.120
Maybe some people have a little bit more or maybe some people misinterpret things.
00:58:00.900
But overall, Americans are generally good people who just want to go to work, take care of the kids and have enough economics to do some extra things.
00:58:10.500
But this idea that, you know, we're these highly sinful people who are just waiting to do things and have these malevolent thoughts and, you know, I think that a lot of it is actually projection by the people who are delivering the message.
00:58:23.460
And one thing that I want to touch on, which your son would be able to speak about, is the mixed race experience.
00:58:31.760
Because if we start looking at everything through a racial lens, then we'll go, oh, this person is, you know, darker skinned African-American.
00:58:42.920
Therefore, you are more privileged because you were lighter.
00:58:50.880
And then, I don't know if you guys have heard of like the one drop rule.
00:58:58.420
So just explain to people who haven't heard of it what the one drop rule is, please, Adam.
00:59:02.080
So the one drop rule is like, it's basically, I'm probably going to butcher it a little bit, but it's basically like if you have one drop of black blood, then you're black.
0.80
00:59:12.400
It doesn't matter if half, you know, a quarter is this, a quarter is that, a quarter is that.
00:59:15.860
Well, a good example is Barack Obama, half white, the first black president.
00:59:20.300
No one called him mixed race until after 10 years gone by.
00:59:25.120
And if someone meets my son, and he's pretty light skinned, but if they meet him and they find out that I'm black, then they would say, well, he's black.
00:59:33.400
Or, you know, there's, you're a quarter black, you know, it's just like everything is about the one drop rule.
1.00
00:59:39.860
And it's a, it's a weird dynamic to constantly see.
00:59:43.940
And I almost feel like it, it, it erases people, like it erases people, people's individualism to kind of see things through the prism of how much blood do you have?
00:59:59.220
But that's, it's a natural consequences, natural consequence of tribal group identity.
0.99
01:00:04.600
Because if some groups are better than others, or some groups are worse than others, then naturally people will want to be in a particular group or will be forced to be in that group, as opposed to just going, I'm Daniel.
01:00:17.060
You talk about, you know, people, the people, when we interviewed Bill Burr, when we went to America, this is the point that he made, which is like, he started playing all these black clubs.
01:00:25.980
And initially, as a white guy who maybe hasn't been in that environment, you go, oh, these black people, blah, blah, blah.
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01:00:31.260
And then, once you're used to it, you start to see, oh, that's my, that guy, just like my friend Steve, who's an arsehole.
1.00
01:00:39.620
And that's really the simple message is people are people.
01:00:42.660
And, look, I think we've all really enjoyed this conversation.
01:00:46.260
I think the conversation about family and parenting and masculinity and all of that is going to be a big part of not only the conversation going forward, I actually think it's a big part of the solution, too.
01:00:58.260
I think if we can do what you're talking about, which is focus on encouraging people, not going back to the 1950s, but actually going forward.
01:01:07.560
And going, what is the constructive view of the future?
01:01:10.780
Well, it's got to be, you know, I, becoming a new parent has opened my eyes to how antenatal our society is.
01:01:17.820
I remember reading your book going, oh, he became a dad at 21.
01:01:26.740
This isn't, it's what human beings have done for millennia.
01:01:31.700
Yet, in our society, we think of that as some kind of crazy thing.
01:01:36.080
So, anyway, I just, I'm really glad we had this conversation.
01:01:39.040
I think what you're talking about is going to be a big part of the way this issue gets talked about, but also a way that some of these things get resolved going forward.
01:01:47.040
So, I really appreciate you coming on the show.
01:01:50.580
And, as always, we've got one more question for you.
01:01:53.080
Which is, what is the one thing we're not talking about, but we really should be?
01:01:56.580
The vulnerability of children in single-parent homes to sexual molestation.
01:02:14.060
I gave him all this uplifting stuff about he's doing the right thing.
01:02:25.040
And, my friend Holly, who used to work with Brett and Heather, Brett Weinstein and Heather Hying, she always talks about this as well.
01:02:34.760
Basically, I don't think people understand the safety aspect when it comes to having someone who is an adult, especially a male, brought into the home of a child that is not theirs.
01:02:45.560
And, how much vulnerability that leaves, because predators look for vulnerabilities.
01:02:51.240
And, men who are looking for children to, you know, basically prey off of, they're going to look for single mothers.
01:03:01.720
And, I remember having this conversation on a podcast, and there were three guys there, and I was explaining how this would all work and how this is a major vulnerability.
01:03:10.000
And, when I finished speaking, one of the guys said, you basically explained my childhood to a T.
01:03:15.140
Everything that I explained as to what happens to these kids and how vulnerable they become, he basically went through.
01:03:23.340
And, his story is the silent story that people don't feel comfortable talking about.
01:03:28.220
So, for me, there's the childhood behavioral aspect, but safety, right?
01:03:36.120
Children are safer with both of their natural parents within the home.
0.88
01:03:46.660
It's not even close how much danger children are in when they're along with a parent who is not their biological parent, whether it be physical abuse or sexual abuse.
01:04:00.440
And, a lot of times, as well, this is a really tragic thing, and I saw it as a teacher.
01:04:04.380
Just kids, the moment they hit 16, stepdad doesn't want them around, out they go onto the streets.
01:04:09.120
And, then they become part of the homelessness problem.
01:04:11.680
And, a lot of the times, those kids are super vulnerable, and they fall through the cracks in the system, and it's heartbreaking.
01:04:16.980
Because, they haven't even started yet, and they're already minus 500, whatever it is.
01:04:25.460
No, I joke because, just to ease the tension, but actually, I think you both make a really important point.
01:04:34.740
Adam, Black Victim to Black Victor is the book.
01:04:41.260
We're going to ask you a couple of questions that our local supporters have submitted that only they will get to see the answer to.
01:04:47.400
But, for the moment, thank you so much for coming on the show.
01:04:50.280
And, thank you guys for watching and listening.
01:04:52.300
We will see you with another brilliant episode like this one, or Raw Show.
01:04:58.400
And, for those of you who like your trigonometry on the go, it's also available as a podcast.
01:05:04.840
How do you start a friendly conversation to change someone's self-perceived victimhood?