TRIGGERnometry - Boris Johnson：＂I Talked to Putin...＂

00:00:00.800 Did you have any one-on-one conversations with Vladimir Putin?

00:00:05.080 I did, I did.

00:00:05.960 What was he saying to you?

00:00:07.120 It was an incredibly depressing conversation.

00:00:10.560 Have you been shocked by Trump's approach to this situation?

00:00:16.180 No.

00:00:18.480 Absolutely.

00:00:20.880 Bluntly, we hadn't got a clear strategy anymore.

00:00:23.660 And so you needed someone to come in and say,

00:00:25.320 right, I'm going to try and make peace,

00:00:26.780 which is what the president is trying to do.

00:00:28.860 Boris, with all respect, let me ask the question before you answer it.

00:00:32.600 But no, no, but there's another part to it, Boris.

00:00:34.960 But wait, but wait.

00:00:35.960 What they wanted was to take back control.

00:00:38.940 In order to do what?

00:00:39.960 To take back control.

00:00:40.600 In order to do what?

00:00:41.400 To take back control.

00:00:41.780 In order to leave things the same or make them worse?

00:00:44.980 Rishi Sunak just said stop the boats was the wrong slogan.

00:00:47.560 We went too far.

00:00:48.540 We should have, no, no.

00:00:50.480 The problem was, the problem was that we,

00:00:53.760 they didn't do what I told them to do.

00:00:56.320 No, no, hold on, hold on.

00:00:57.400 Boris, you say, no, you say, no, no, Boris,

00:00:58.980 I'm not going to let you get away with this.

00:01:00.400 You say.

00:01:00.940 You must.

00:01:01.460 No, I'm not.

00:01:01.920 You must.

00:01:02.400 No, no, you must.

00:01:02.940 I refuse.

00:01:04.080 The same way it's like, you can't get a question in edgeways.

00:01:06.340 No, you go on.

00:01:07.020 Boris.

00:01:07.500 Go on.

00:01:09.780 Boris Johnson?

00:01:10.620 Yes, hello.

00:01:11.380 Thank you, Constantine.

00:01:12.480 Thank you very much for having me on the show.

00:01:13.780 Francis.

00:01:14.340 It's great to have you here.

00:01:15.480 Great, great to be here.

00:01:16.040 Thanks for joining us.

00:01:16.820 Yes, I've got to go off a plane from Washington,

00:01:18.960 so forgive me if I'm, you know, a bit, you know, blurry in my...

00:01:23.860 Well, we might forgive you.

00:01:24.740 I'll do my best.

00:01:25.100 The audience might not forgive you, but it doesn't matter.

00:01:27.360 They'll have to lump it.

00:01:28.460 They will indeed.

00:01:29.840 They'll have to lump it.

00:01:30.380 So let's get to the lumping it part.

00:01:32.900 You've just come back from Washington,

00:01:34.180 and this is really one of the big things we wanted to talk to you about,

00:01:37.020 which is, of course, Ukraine.

00:01:38.100 Yes.

00:01:39.660 The question that I think a lot of people would want to know,

00:01:41.760 and cards on the table, we've always been very pro-Ukraine,

00:01:44.100 we raised money for Ukraine, et cetera,

00:01:46.180 is why were you so strong at the beginning of this war

00:01:51.360 to get the Western world to support Ukraine?

00:01:54.880 What is the rationale?

00:01:56.380 Because I don't think that has ever been articulated

00:01:58.540 in a powerful way to people.

00:02:00.400 I think it's very simple.

00:02:02.720 I felt enraged and, in a way, guilty

00:02:07.140 that this appalling and irrational thing had happened

00:02:13.780 on my watch, as it were.

00:02:15.760 You know, there I was, a prime minister of a G7 country,

00:02:20.060 a P5 country, a nuclear power, 1.00

00:02:23.500 and we'd been unable to persuade Putin

00:02:28.680 not to do something so completely self-destructive

00:02:33.240 and clearly destructive of Ukraine.

00:02:36.540 And it was enraging.

00:02:39.280 And I was disgusted at what he was doing.

00:02:47.160 And I felt that it was,

00:02:49.840 I felt that there were so many lies he was telling

00:02:52.820 about the reasons why he was invading Ukraine.

00:02:58.580 And they were not falling entirely on deaf ears.

00:03:03.100 And people were saying, you know, you hear it,

00:03:05.960 you still hear it.

00:03:06.900 We poked the bear.

00:03:09.040 It was the fault of the West for encouraging the Ukrainians 1.00

00:03:13.780 to pursue NATO membership.

00:03:16.240 We should never have done that.

00:03:17.780 And it's total nonsense.

00:03:19.080 Why is that total nonsense? 0.96

00:03:20.160 It's total nonsense.

00:03:21.000 Because the simple fact is,

00:03:25.480 and Putin knew this very well,

00:03:27.920 there was not the remotest chance,

00:03:29.880 there was not a snowball's chance in hell

00:03:31.880 of Ukraine joining NATO in 2020.

00:03:39.180 As things stood in 2022,

00:03:41.200 when Putin launched his full-scale invasion,

00:03:44.040 there was not a snowball's chance in hell

00:03:45.480 of Ukraine joining NATO for decades,

00:03:47.800 in the foreseeable future.

00:03:49.500 I'll tell you why. 1.00

00:03:51.900 Because the black balls, 0.99

00:03:53.640 the countries voting no, 1.00

00:03:56.440 they would have looked like sheet droppings. 0.99

00:03:59.480 I mean, there would have been so many black balls, right? 1.00

00:04:01.260 Because they're not just the Hungarians, 0.99

00:04:03.080 the French, the Germans,

00:04:04.260 the Americans weren't on for extending

00:04:06.820 their nuclear guarantee to a huge country,

00:04:10.160 45 million people,

00:04:11.080 you know, second biggest country in Europe

00:04:14.200 by land area.

00:04:15.740 You know, colossal country.

00:04:17.520 It was not going to happen.

00:04:19.920 There were very few actual proponents

00:04:21.780 of Ukrainian membership then in 2022.

00:04:26.680 It wasn't going to happen in a, you know,

00:04:28.780 till the hell froze over,

00:04:30.280 the Greek kalends,

00:04:31.560 whatever, however you want to put it.

00:04:32.900 And Putin knew that.

00:04:34.460 So what's his motivation?

00:04:35.480 Well, his motivation was very clear.

00:04:37.100 His motivation was to,

00:04:41.700 after 20 years in power,

00:04:46.700 to galvanize public opinion in Russia

00:04:50.680 behind a nationalist adventure

00:04:53.480 to boost his own standing.

00:04:57.440 And sadly, to some extent,

00:04:59.420 he's been successful.

00:05:01.060 I mean, people do tend to rally

00:05:03.120 behind the leader in time of war.

00:05:05.940 A lot of Russians have instinctively done that. 0.56

00:05:08.980 I think he hated,

00:05:11.420 as a former KGB man,

00:05:13.520 he hated the collapse of the Soviet empire.

00:05:16.700 And he was on record as saying

00:05:18.240 it was the biggest catastrophe

00:05:20.400 of the 20th century.

00:05:22.920 He wanted to rebuild it.

00:05:24.400 And, you know,

00:05:26.060 it's actually all there

00:05:26.960 in his crazy kind of Nostradamus essay

00:05:30.240 about what Ukraine is.

00:05:33.480 He thought it was basically

00:05:36.380 the origins of,

00:05:39.620 the spiritual origins of Russian culture

00:05:41.980 and should be reunited with Russia.

00:05:44.040 And that was in complete contradiction,

00:05:45.660 of course,

00:05:45.960 of what the Ukrainians wanted.

00:05:47.820 They voted in 1991

00:05:48.900 to be a free, sovereign, independent country.

00:05:51.460 And I think that his motives

00:05:55.860 were entirely cynical.

00:05:58.180 He did it, I think,

00:05:59.700 because he thought that the West

00:06:00.860 would acquiesce,

00:06:02.780 as they had in 2014.

00:06:05.760 And he thought that he would

00:06:07.400 conquer Ukraine very speedily. 0.95

00:06:09.240 He thought that it would be over

00:06:11.540 very, very soon.

00:06:12.780 I think he also probably calculated

00:06:15.480 that the oil price would spike

00:06:18.600 and that that would be good for Russia.

00:06:20.400 And that for a long time,

00:06:22.120 he would be able to finance,

00:06:23.200 you know,

00:06:23.460 for as long as it took.

00:06:24.540 And I think he miscalculated

00:06:26.060 how long it would take.

00:06:26.760 But he thought that he would

00:06:28.060 benefit from an oil price spike

00:06:29.740 that would, you know,

00:06:31.540 more than finance the cost of the war.

00:06:33.460 As it happened,

00:06:34.180 the war's been ruinously expensive for him.

00:06:35.880 But he was certainly right 0.99

00:06:37.620 in that short-term calculation.

00:06:40.720 So I think it was

00:06:42.340 an entirely cynical thing.

00:06:44.160 Ukraine was no conceivable threat 0.56

00:06:46.640 to Putin at the time.

00:06:49.160 Absolutely no threat.

00:06:49.960 And, you know,

00:06:51.580 the whole point about Ukraine 0.99

00:06:53.300 is it had been disarmed.

00:06:56.080 We'd done it.

00:06:57.820 I mean, I think, you know,

00:06:58.620 if you asked,

00:06:59.260 your question was, you know,

00:07:00.120 why was I so worked up about it?

00:07:02.680 I mean, partly it was,

00:07:03.780 you know,

00:07:05.240 a feeling of responsibility

00:07:06.140 because as a UK prime minister,

00:07:09.120 because after all,

00:07:11.240 in 1994,

00:07:13.380 under the Budapest memorandum,

00:07:16.060 we had told the Ukrainians,

00:07:19.520 you've got to give up

00:07:21.660 your 1,700 nuclear warheads,

00:07:25.300 but we will protect you.

00:07:27.400 France, Britain, America,

00:07:29.800 and of course,

00:07:30.280 absurdly, Russia, 0.99

00:07:31.400 said that they would protect Ukraine

00:07:33.480 in the event of attack.

00:07:35.180 And actually,

00:07:35.740 we didn't do that in 2014.

00:07:37.000 And then again,

00:07:37.800 in 2022,

00:07:39.920 we didn't.

00:07:41.340 And the best plan I could see

00:07:45.720 was to,

00:07:49.420 when the disaster started to unfold

00:07:52.520 in January,

00:07:53.160 actually before then,

00:07:56.160 we really started to get the evidence

00:07:57.640 that it was going to go wrong.

00:07:59.340 The best plan I could see

00:08:00.420 was to get weapons

00:08:01.320 to the Ukrainians

00:08:02.060 as fast as possible.

00:08:04.060 And so from the autumn onwards,

00:08:07.800 When did you know

00:08:08.880 he was going to invade?

00:08:09.800 Well, I think his essay

00:08:11.860 was back in July

00:08:13.360 of the previous year.

00:08:14.800 I mean, I might be wrong about that,

00:08:16.420 but it was back

00:08:16.880 in the previous summer.

00:08:18.660 And to his great credit,

00:08:21.100 Ben Wallace,

00:08:21.860 the defence secretary,

00:08:23.540 then defence secretary,

00:08:24.400 said,

00:08:24.640 you've got to read this.

00:08:27.920 Primes to his,

00:08:28.620 you know,

00:08:28.780 it's totally bonkers,

00:08:31.280 but, you know,

00:08:32.120 I really think he means it.

00:08:33.280 I really think he's going to invade.

00:08:35.160 Ben thought that

00:08:35.880 back in the summer.

00:08:37.740 I did read it.

00:08:39.320 I thought it was spooky

00:08:40.480 and chilling.

00:08:43.020 And so one of the things

00:08:45.200 that we did

00:08:45.800 was to begin,

00:08:49.880 I think from August,

00:08:50.800 I can't remember exactly when,

00:08:51.700 but we started a process

00:08:52.740 to try to get

00:08:53.480 the Javelin,

00:08:55.220 not the Javelins,

00:08:56.020 the N-laws, 0.87

00:08:57.780 which were made in Belfast,

00:08:59.680 to Ukraine.

00:09:03.280 And I've got to tell you,

00:09:04.380 that was not easy

00:09:05.000 because there was a lot of

00:09:07.260 anxiety in the system

00:09:12.660 about doing things

00:09:14.520 that would provoke Putin.

00:09:16.700 This became a constant argument

00:09:18.160 as the whole thing developed.

00:09:20.020 You remember,

00:09:20.440 you know,

00:09:20.560 people said,

00:09:21.020 we can't do X,

00:09:21.800 Y,

00:09:21.980 and Z because it's escalatory.

00:09:23.660 If you give Putin,

00:09:25.180 as you say,

00:09:25.620 if you give the Ukrainians

00:09:27.160 weapons of one particular kind,

00:09:31.480 Putin will be provoked

00:09:33.020 and he'll do something

00:09:34.160 even more aggressive.

00:09:35.840 And this was a continuing theme.

00:09:37.460 Actually,

00:09:37.900 he'd already decided

00:09:38.880 he was going to try to

00:09:40.020 take over

00:09:40.920 and wipe out Ukraine. 0.89

00:09:42.020 So he was the guy

00:09:43.580 who wanted to escalate.

00:09:45.140 Did you have any

00:09:45.840 one-on-one conversations

00:09:47.740 with Vladimir Putin?

00:09:48.920 I did.

00:09:49.600 I did.

00:09:49.940 What was he saying to you?

00:09:52.020 Well,

00:09:52.460 I give an account of it,

00:09:53.240 actually,

00:09:53.640 in the book,

00:09:56.320 Unleashed.

00:09:57.980 But it was

00:09:59.120 an incredibly depressing

00:10:00.980 conversation

00:10:01.560 because he,

00:10:03.080 you know,

00:10:04.940 he repeated his assertions

00:10:08.080 that Ukraine 0.91

00:10:10.060 could be a kind of threat

00:10:11.340 to Russia.

00:10:12.900 And I think he made the point

00:10:14.340 that if,

00:10:16.540 you know,

00:10:19.440 ICBMs were stationed,

00:10:21.320 missiles were stationed

00:10:22.160 in Ukraine,

00:10:22.780 then there'd be

00:10:23.140 a very short distance

00:10:25.220 from travel to Moscow

00:10:26.340 from Ukraine.

00:10:27.420 How could he put up

00:10:28.240 with his security?

00:10:28.860 I said,

00:10:29.340 look,

00:10:29.540 you know,

00:10:29.980 everybody knows

00:10:30.800 there's no plan

00:10:32.340 to put missiles

00:10:35.820 on Ukrainian.

00:10:36.940 So that's totally not,

00:10:37.760 that's totally not.

00:10:38.440 So nor was there.

00:10:39.340 Absolutely,

00:10:39.760 absolutely not.

00:10:40.680 As I say,

00:10:41.220 there was no plan

00:10:41.780 to get Ukraine into NATO.

00:10:43.380 They hadn't even got

00:10:44.000 a membership action plan.

00:10:45.220 They'd got nothing.

00:10:46.180 I mean,

00:10:46.640 yes,

00:10:47.100 back in 2008

00:10:48.440 at the Bucharest summit,

00:10:51.680 George Bush,

00:10:55.480 the US president,

00:10:57.220 had said very strongly,

00:10:59.040 well,

00:10:59.140 look,

00:10:59.200 we've got a problem here

00:11:00.040 with Ukraine.

00:11:01.400 It doesn't have

00:11:02.160 a security guarantee.

00:11:04.460 You know,

00:11:05.000 logically,

00:11:05.580 its position is very difficult.

00:11:06.720 We should get them in.

00:11:08.000 They want to be in.

00:11:08.580 We should get them in.

00:11:09.400 And actually,

00:11:09.780 it was then,

00:11:10.340 and it was the Europeans

00:11:11.460 who said no,

00:11:13.140 and the French and the Germans

00:11:14.240 in particular.

00:11:15.440 Looking back,

00:11:16.080 it might have been a good thing

00:11:17.360 if we had got them in there,

00:11:18.600 but we didn't.

00:11:19.640 And as I say,

00:11:20.580 in 2022,

00:11:21.040 there was no prospect

00:11:21.840 of that changing.

00:11:23.500 So Putin focused on all that

00:11:27.860 and he was obsessed

00:11:29.040 with stirring up that issue,

00:11:32.580 trying to make it look

00:11:33.500 as though NATO

00:11:35.540 was being expansionist.

00:11:38.260 And all I can say

00:11:39.260 is it really wasn't.

00:11:40.060 You know,

00:11:40.220 I was in every important

00:11:42.100 NATO meeting

00:11:43.000 from 2016 to 2022,

00:11:46.060 either as foreign secretary

00:11:46.940 or PM,

00:11:47.800 and the idea that,

00:11:50.420 you know,

00:11:50.700 Ukraine was about 0.95

00:11:51.520 to be put into NATO

00:11:53.520 is complete nonsense.

00:11:54.740 It just wasn't

00:11:55.700 on the agenda

00:11:58.000 of the alliance then.

00:11:59.040 I mean,

00:11:59.260 it should be

00:11:59.960 now

00:12:01.240 because of what Putin's done.

00:12:03.200 I mean,

00:12:04.720 like Ukraine 0.92

00:12:05.720 has now joined

00:12:06.420 the unhappy ranks

00:12:08.640 of so many other

00:12:10.160 countries in Central

00:12:11.820 and Eastern Europe

00:12:12.640 that have been invaded

00:12:13.420 by Russia.

00:12:14.400 You know,

00:12:14.640 why is Poland?

00:12:16.280 Why is Hungary?

00:12:17.220 Why is Czechoslovakia?

00:12:19.420 Why is all the Baltic states?

00:12:22.460 Why are Finland

00:12:22.940 members of NATO now?

00:12:25.180 Because they've all

00:12:25.680 been invaded by Russia

00:12:26.520 in the last hundred years.

00:12:28.140 Very, very violently.

00:12:29.480 And so is Ukraine. 0.60

00:12:30.560 The long-term solution

00:12:31.560 is still to get Ukraine.

00:12:33.180 Ukraine into NATO

00:12:34.240 in my view.

00:12:34.780 And that's why I think

00:12:35.320 Keir Starmer

00:12:35.900 is right to say

00:12:37.240 that Ukraine 0.91

00:12:39.040 is on an irreversible

00:12:39.960 path to NATO membership.

00:12:42.080 But so that was

00:12:43.200 the sort of conversation.

00:12:46.120 It was a pretty

00:12:46.940 creepy conversation.

00:12:49.100 I remember the interpreter

00:12:50.200 afterwards saying

00:12:51.000 he'd been very familiar

00:12:51.940 with me

00:12:52.460 and sort of used

00:12:53.420 because he spoke

00:12:55.260 in Russian.

00:12:55.920 He has good English

00:12:56.900 but he spoke in Russian

00:12:57.700 in that conversation.

00:12:58.360 They said he'd used

00:12:59.900 the more

00:13:02.860 what's the word?

00:13:04.440 The more familiar

00:13:05.360 form of address.

00:13:07.920 Ty rather than voi.

00:13:09.080 Ty rather than voi.

00:13:09.700 I see, yeah.

00:13:10.380 And

00:13:10.700 which would be

00:13:13.120 a sign of disrespect

00:13:13.960 actually.

00:13:14.640 Exactly.

00:13:15.540 I'm from Russia

00:13:16.320 originally.

00:13:16.600 And I thought

00:13:18.260 what he's

00:13:21.020 really doing

00:13:22.100 is he's not

00:13:22.500 taking this seriously.

00:13:24.280 And

00:13:24.640 he wasn't

00:13:26.440 really

00:13:27.020 listening.

00:13:28.600 He'd already

00:13:28.980 decided.

00:13:29.120 His mind was made up.

00:13:30.000 He'd already

00:13:30.580 decided.

00:13:31.380 Let me ask you

00:13:31.920 something else.

00:13:32.700 And it's interesting

00:13:33.300 because I want to put

00:13:33.920 this on the table

00:13:34.560 and I want to get

00:13:35.160 your reaction.

00:13:36.160 I came to this

00:13:36.920 interview

00:13:37.320 having heard

00:13:39.180 that you

00:13:40.320 went to Kiev

00:13:41.200 and told them

00:13:43.200 not to sign

00:13:43.980 whatever agreement

00:13:44.940 was made

00:13:45.520 in Istanbul.

00:13:47.540 Thank you.

00:13:49.040 And this is a

00:13:50.080 talking point

00:13:50.620 that's been extensive.

00:13:51.240 This is a Kremlin

00:13:51.940 point talking point.

00:13:52.840 Hold on.

00:13:53.560 Agreed.

00:13:54.240 So,

00:13:54.800 well not agreed

00:13:55.460 but I came

00:13:57.040 into this interview

00:13:57.700 ready to ask you

00:13:58.720 about that.

00:13:59.360 And then I went

00:13:59.900 and looked

00:14:00.440 at where that

00:14:01.720 claim comes from.

00:14:02.700 And it comes

00:14:03.460 from various

00:14:04.040 right-wing

00:14:04.520 publications

00:14:05.120 online.

00:14:06.580 It's all linked

00:14:07.520 to an interview

00:14:08.160 with David Arachmyr

00:14:09.320 who was

00:14:09.780 Ukraine's chief

00:14:10.920 negotiator

00:14:11.760 in those

00:14:12.860 negotiations.

00:14:13.980 And I went

00:14:14.580 and watched the video

00:14:15.180 and I speak Russian

00:14:15.940 and I can understand

00:14:16.620 Ukraine.

00:14:17.040 He says no such thing.

00:14:18.300 On the contrary

00:14:18.980 he says you didn't

00:14:19.900 interfere

00:14:20.300 and they didn't

00:14:21.420 want to sign

00:14:22.140 because they didn't

00:14:23.160 trust Russia.

00:14:25.240 They didn't want

00:14:25.940 to sign a neutrality

00:14:26.800 agreement

00:14:27.140 because what they

00:14:27.680 thought was

00:14:28.100 we're going to

00:14:28.460 sign this

00:14:28.940 they're going to

00:14:30.060 get ready to

00:14:30.740 innovate fully

00:14:31.500 and then

00:14:32.840 we're going to

00:14:33.760 be caught

00:14:34.380 with our pants 0.72

00:14:34.840 down.

00:14:35.120 That's essentially

00:14:35.600 what he said.

00:14:37.000 So,

00:14:37.880 is there any

00:14:39.420 truth though

00:14:40.140 that you know

00:14:41.340 in your moral

00:14:42.340 outrage at what

00:14:43.300 Putin had done

00:14:44.140 you didn't

00:14:45.480 consider

00:14:46.060 how realistic

00:14:48.000 it was

00:14:48.560 to get the

00:14:49.100 Ukrainians

00:14:49.620 actually to

00:14:50.200 quote unquote

00:14:50.640 win this war

00:14:51.560 and the victory

00:14:52.700 conditions were

00:14:53.420 never clearly

00:14:53.900 defined.

00:14:54.920 Obviously

00:14:55.180 it was never

00:14:55.780 going to be

00:14:56.080 the Ukrainian

00:14:56.620 flag flying

00:14:57.380 over the

00:14:57.700 Kremlin

00:14:57.980 and people

00:14:59.900 will argue

00:15:00.440 and this is

00:15:00.760 what I want

00:15:01.060 to get your

00:15:01.400 reaction to

00:15:01.980 is now

00:15:03.320 we are in

00:15:04.040 a position

00:15:04.540 where a

00:15:05.960 better deal

00:15:06.620 might have

00:15:07.080 been available

00:15:07.700 in 2022

00:15:08.800 without a

00:15:10.100 million people

00:15:10.640 being killed

00:15:11.160 on both 0.95

00:15:11.520 sides.

00:15:12.220 Do you think

00:15:12.600 that's a

00:15:13.020 credible

00:15:13.960 argument?

00:15:15.500 Look,

00:15:15.680 you can't

00:15:16.020 be more

00:15:16.760 Ukrainian

00:15:17.380 than the

00:15:17.800 Ukrainians,

00:15:18.320 right?

00:15:18.500 And I

00:15:18.680 passionately

00:15:19.320 support

00:15:19.800 Ukraine

00:15:20.600 but it's

00:15:21.060 up to

00:15:21.500 people in

00:15:22.580 Ukraine,

00:15:22.920 government

00:15:23.120 of Ukraine

00:15:23.500 to decide

00:15:24.200 when they're

00:15:25.840 going to

00:15:26.040 negotiate

00:15:26.840 what their

00:15:27.560 Yes,

00:15:28.580 but if you

00:15:29.060 said to

00:15:29.500 them and

00:15:29.840 the US

00:15:30.140 president

00:15:30.460 said to

00:15:30.820 them,

00:15:31.000 we're not

00:15:31.200 giving you

00:15:31.540 any support,

00:15:32.240 they wouldn't

00:15:32.660 afford because

00:15:33.360 they knew

00:15:33.700 they were

00:15:34.020 not going to

00:15:34.800 stand a

00:15:35.120 chance.

00:15:35.420 First of

00:15:38.520 all,

00:15:38.700 I think it

00:15:38.940 would have

00:15:39.060 been totally

00:15:39.420 wrong to

00:15:39.900 leave Ukraine 0.93

00:15:40.540 to be engulfed

00:15:42.040 by the

00:15:43.420 Russians and

00:15:44.060 that's frankly

00:15:45.220 what would

00:15:45.500 have happened.

00:15:46.360 If we

00:15:46.940 hadn't given

00:15:47.440 them the

00:15:49.020 end laws and

00:15:49.980 the javelins

00:15:50.700 which Donald

00:15:51.520 Trump actually

00:15:53.020 gave them and

00:15:53.680 if they hadn't

00:15:54.160 started to get

00:15:54.800 quite a big

00:15:55.780 pipeline of

00:15:56.440 Western support,

00:15:57.440 I think it is

00:15:57.960 well possible that

00:15:58.880 Putin could have

00:16:00.020 won that war

00:16:00.600 quite quickly.

00:16:02.020 But there

00:16:03.320 was no deal

00:16:04.060 to be,

00:16:04.360 that's what

00:16:04.680 I'm getting

00:16:05.000 at.

00:16:05.320 Was there

00:16:05.740 a deal

00:16:06.160 for the

00:16:06.520 Ukrainians

00:16:07.260 if they

00:16:08.100 knew from

00:16:08.620 day one

00:16:09.120 we're not

00:16:09.680 going to

00:16:09.860 get Western

00:16:10.280 support,

00:16:11.000 we're going

00:16:11.280 to have

00:16:11.500 to do a

00:16:11.880 deal with

00:16:12.160 this guy.

00:16:12.480 They were

00:16:12.920 not going

00:16:13.220 to do

00:16:13.400 a deal.

00:16:13.560 No,

00:16:13.940 because

00:16:14.160 Putin,

00:16:14.500 well,

00:16:14.740 maybe you

00:16:16.280 disagree,

00:16:16.860 but I

00:16:17.100 think Putin,

00:16:18.700 if you read

00:16:19.340 the essay,

00:16:19.860 if you look

00:16:20.080 at what he

00:16:20.320 was trying

00:16:20.600 to do,

00:16:20.920 his war

00:16:21.300 aims were

00:16:21.720 very simple.

00:16:22.320 His war

00:16:22.640 aims were

00:16:23.000 to reabsorb

00:16:23.800 Ukraine

00:16:24.600 into the

00:16:25.800 Russian

00:16:26.040 empire and

00:16:26.540 make it

00:16:27.440 effectively

00:16:27.900 part of

00:16:28.300 Russia,

00:16:28.540 making it

00:16:28.820 a vassal

00:16:30.300 state.

00:16:31.040 That was

00:16:31.460 very,

00:16:31.840 very clear.

00:16:32.260 The whole

00:16:32.540 thing,

00:16:32.760 he wanted

00:16:33.000 Kiev,

00:16:34.080 right?

00:16:35.780 And so

00:16:36.820 when I

00:16:37.980 went to

00:16:38.440 your,

00:16:39.260 back to

00:16:39.640 the Kremlin

00:16:40.120 kind of

00:16:40.600 talking point,

00:16:41.340 you know,

00:16:41.600 Boris Johnson

00:16:42.460 went to

00:16:43.480 Kiev at

00:16:44.340 the behest

00:16:45.100 of Joe

00:16:45.520 Biden to

00:16:46.900 tell the

00:16:47.300 Ukrainians not 0.98

00:16:48.180 to do a

00:16:48.600 deal with

00:16:48.900 Putin.

00:16:49.280 That's the

00:16:50.180 Kremlin

00:16:50.960 line.

00:16:51.520 It is a

00:16:51.980 complete lie.

00:16:53.060 Right.

00:16:53.260 And so

00:16:53.520 first of all,

00:16:54.400 I had no

00:16:54.840 discussions with

00:16:55.560 Joe Biden or

00:16:56.300 indeed with

00:16:56.840 anybody else

00:16:59.240 in America

00:17:00.600 before going

00:17:01.220 for a reason

00:17:02.560 of operational

00:17:03.040 security at

00:17:03.740 the time

00:17:04.200 because it

00:17:04.400 was,

00:17:04.740 you know,

00:17:05.180 we didn't

00:17:05.740 know the

00:17:06.020 risks of

00:17:06.620 going to

00:17:07.500 Kiev.

00:17:08.520 Exactly.

00:17:10.720 I went

00:17:11.760 basically

00:17:13.220 because I

00:17:13.740 wanted vividly

00:17:15.160 to show

00:17:16.300 the UK's

00:17:17.420 support and

00:17:18.680 also to

00:17:19.460 demonstrate,

00:17:21.340 you know,

00:17:21.900 to our

00:17:22.640 public and

00:17:23.520 as much

00:17:24.100 to everybody

00:17:24.940 else that

00:17:26.200 they'd

00:17:26.720 achieved a

00:17:27.180 stunning

00:17:27.460 thing.

00:17:28.420 They kicked 0.91

00:17:29.020 the Russians

00:17:29.500 out of

00:17:29.920 Kiev and

00:17:30.920 out of

00:17:31.160 that area.

00:17:31.620 And Kiev

00:17:31.860 was now a

00:17:32.320 safe place

00:17:32.780 to visit.

00:17:33.680 And the

00:17:33.840 only way

00:17:34.080 to make

00:17:34.340 that point

00:17:34.760 and show

00:17:35.060 solidarity

00:17:35.660 and to

00:17:36.040 make that

00:17:38.100 point was

00:17:38.400 to go in

00:17:39.180 person.

00:17:40.320 And it's

00:17:42.400 true that

00:17:43.140 we had

00:17:44.000 long

00:17:44.360 conversations

00:17:46.780 with

00:17:47.280 Volodymyr

00:17:47.720 Zelensky

00:17:48.180 and I

00:17:49.960 told him

00:17:50.420 what is

00:17:52.240 obvious.

00:17:52.680 I said on

00:17:53.360 behalf of

00:17:53.920 the British

00:17:54.580 government and

00:17:56.000 huge numbers

00:17:56.700 of British

00:17:57.000 people how

00:17:58.120 much we

00:17:58.520 admired what

00:17:59.200 he had

00:17:59.560 done.

00:18:00.700 We couldn't

00:18:01.660 be more

00:18:02.120 Ukrainian than 0.92

00:18:02.900 the Ukrainians.

00:18:03.580 Obviously,

00:18:03.980 if they wanted

00:18:05.160 to do a deal,

00:18:07.660 if they saw an

00:18:09.000 alternative,

00:18:10.080 that was for

00:18:10.680 them.

00:18:11.800 But all I

00:18:12.600 said was that

00:18:13.560 if they were

00:18:14.400 going to fight

00:18:15.000 on, then

00:18:15.980 clearly they

00:18:16.580 would have

00:18:16.920 our support.

00:18:18.420 And I

00:18:19.060 don't think

00:18:19.420 there was

00:18:19.660 any chance

00:18:22.340 that they

00:18:22.620 could have

00:18:23.320 done a deal.

00:18:23.740 If you

00:18:23.900 remember,

00:18:24.220 at that

00:18:24.380 stage,

00:18:24.760 April

00:18:25.040 2022,

00:18:27.140 Putin occupied

00:18:28.000 far more

00:18:28.820 land in

00:18:29.380 Ukraine than

00:18:29.820 he does

00:18:30.100 now.

00:18:30.720 Far more.

00:18:32.180 And they

00:18:32.960 hadn't yet

00:18:33.540 kicked them

00:18:33.980 out of

00:18:34.260 Kharkiv and

00:18:35.060 Kherson and

00:18:36.260 all the

00:18:36.740 other places.

00:18:37.140 Putin was

00:18:40.520 in a much

00:18:40.860 more dominating

00:18:41.720 position.

00:18:43.160 He was

00:18:43.880 asking for

00:18:44.660 Ukrainian

00:18:45.740 armed forces

00:18:47.340 to be cut

00:18:47.900 to a rump.

00:18:48.860 He was

00:18:49.140 asking for

00:18:49.960 neutrality,

00:18:52.160 for all

00:18:54.120 sorts of

00:18:54.740 changes to

00:18:55.420 Ukrainian

00:18:55.720 constitution,

00:18:56.560 things that

00:18:56.840 they couldn't

00:18:57.220 accept.

00:18:58.060 He was

00:18:58.460 basically asking

00:18:59.200 things that

00:18:59.620 were totally

00:19:00.080 impossible.

00:19:00.560 Did he

00:19:00.740 want Zelensky

00:19:01.280 gone?

00:19:02.380 Have you

00:19:03.040 ever read

00:19:03.400 a headline

00:19:03.900 or watched

00:19:04.420 a clip

00:19:04.820 and immediately

00:19:05.380 made up

00:19:05.900 your mind

00:19:06.280 about a

00:19:06.660 story only

00:19:07.500 to later

00:19:07.980 find out

00:19:08.540 there was

00:19:08.800 more to

00:19:09.240 it?

00:19:09.860 We've

00:19:10.080 all been

00:19:10.340 there.

00:19:11.060 The news

00:19:11.400 isn't always

00:19:12.140 as straightforward

00:19:12.700 as it

00:19:13.200 seems and

00:19:13.980 that's where

00:19:14.460 Ground News

00:19:15.040 comes in.

00:19:15.980 It helps

00:19:16.300 you compare

00:19:16.800 coverage from

00:19:17.420 across the

00:19:17.960 media spectrum

00:19:18.620 so you can

00:19:19.440 see the

00:19:19.760 full picture

00:19:20.240 for yourself.

00:19:21.160 Ground News

00:19:21.660 is the

00:19:22.100 website and

00:19:22.640 app I

00:19:23.080 use to

00:19:23.460 cut through

00:19:23.820 the noise

00:19:24.220 and actually

00:19:25.080 see the

00:19:25.540 bigger picture.

00:19:26.560 It doesn't

00:19:27.000 just show

00:19:27.420 you the

00:19:27.700 news,

00:19:28.240 it shows

00:19:28.740 you who's

00:19:29.200 covering it,

00:19:30.000 how they're

00:19:30.500 framing it,

00:19:31.300 and what

00:19:31.740 they're leaving

00:19:32.260 out.

00:19:32.820 A feature

00:19:33.180 that I use

00:19:33.800 a lot is

00:19:34.380 the blind

00:19:36.660 game-changer.

00:19:37.880 It highlights

00:19:38.420 stories that

00:19:39.140 either the

00:19:39.640 left or the

00:19:40.180 right are

00:19:40.540 ignoring,

00:19:41.380 so you can

00:19:41.880 be sure

00:19:42.320 you're not

00:19:42.820 missing crucial

00:19:43.500 details.

00:19:44.420 For example,

00:19:45.320 here's a story

00:19:45.920 I found on

00:19:46.640 Ground News

00:19:47.120 that got

00:19:47.500 almost no

00:19:48.060 coverage from

00:19:48.580 the right.

00:19:49.320 Honda to

00:19:49.800 produce Next

00:19:50.480 Civic in

00:19:50.940 Indiana,

00:19:51.640 not Mexico

00:19:52.260 due to US

00:19:52.980 tariffs.

00:19:53.720 And here's

00:19:54.100 one you'd

00:19:54.480 miss if you

00:19:55.060 only read

00:19:55.460 the left-leaning

00:19:56.000 outlets.

00:19:57.000 South Africa

00:19:57.620 rejects

00:19:58.360 must-claim

00:19:59.080 Stalin can't 0.88

00:19:59.840 operate there

00:20:00.300 because he's 0.98

00:20:00.780 not black. 0.94

00:20:01.780 With Ground

00:20:02.260 News,

00:20:02.720 you don't

00:20:03.160 just read

00:20:03.560 the headlines,

00:20:04.160 you get

00:20:04.420 insightful data

00:20:05.280 on biased

00:20:05.860 distribution,

00:20:06.660 source

00:20:07.220 reliability,

00:20:08.200 and media

00:20:08.600 coverage.

00:20:09.400 No other

00:20:09.820 platform offers

00:20:10.720 this level

00:20:11.240 of analysis.

00:20:12.220 Right now,

00:20:12.880 Trigonometry

00:20:13.360 fans can get

00:20:14.100 40% off the

00:20:15.140 Unlimited

00:20:15.620 Vantage

00:20:16.220 plan, the

00:20:17.000 same plan

00:20:17.420 that we

00:20:17.720 use.

00:20:18.200 Just click

00:20:18.640 the link

00:20:19.000 in the

00:20:19.380 description

00:20:19.720 or scan

00:20:20.260 the QR

00:20:20.660 code and

00:20:21.240 subscribe

00:20:21.680 at

00:20:22.120 ground.news

00:20:23.340 slash

00:20:23.660 trigonometry.

00:20:24.520 Your

00:20:24.700 subscription

00:20:25.160 doesn't just

00:20:25.840 keep you

00:20:26.220 informed,

00:20:27.000 it helps

00:20:27.480 bring

00:20:27.800 transparency

00:20:28.420 back to

00:20:29.160 the media.

00:20:29.880 That's

00:20:30.140 something we

00:20:30.600 can all

00:20:30.900 get behind.

00:20:32.380 Did he

00:20:33.000 want Zelensky

00:20:33.520 gone?

00:20:34.360 Of course,

00:20:35.060 of course he

00:20:35.560 wanted,

00:20:36.120 I mean,

00:20:36.320 I don't

00:20:36.860 remember the

00:20:37.540 conditions he

00:20:38.280 was setting

00:20:39.560 at the

00:20:40.280 time,

00:20:40.800 but they

00:20:41.100 were not

00:20:42.420 conditions

00:20:43.060 that any,

00:20:44.300 I think,

00:20:45.000 that any,

00:20:45.700 my view is

00:20:47.200 any Ukrainian

00:20:48.280 president could

00:20:49.620 have accepted.

00:20:50.200 and, you

00:20:53.360 know,

00:20:54.020 you've got to

00:20:55.960 remember that

00:20:56.740 Volodymyr

00:20:58.500 Zelensky,

00:20:59.540 he's not an

00:21:00.520 unreasonable

00:21:00.940 guy.

00:21:02.040 He got

00:21:02.760 elected,

00:21:03.480 really,

00:21:04.240 as a

00:21:04.960 peacenik.

00:21:06.160 He was

00:21:06.540 out that,

00:21:07.140 in 2019,

00:21:08.080 he tried to

00:21:08.560 do a deal

00:21:09.140 with Putin.

00:21:12.240 As far as I

00:21:13.080 can remember,

00:21:13.420 his basic

00:21:14.100 problem was

00:21:15.200 that Ukrainian 1.00

00:21:18.960 nationalists

00:21:20.960 couldn't

00:21:22.560 accept the

00:21:24.000 compromise,

00:21:24.880 and you

00:21:26.140 can see why

00:21:27.440 not.

00:21:27.740 Putin had

00:21:28.360 invaded their

00:21:29.420 country in

00:21:29.920 2014,

00:21:30.680 he'd taken

00:21:31.160 bits of land

00:21:32.740 already,

00:21:33.580 and people

00:21:34.080 were incredibly

00:21:34.900 angry.

00:21:36.740 And they

00:21:37.160 asked us,

00:21:37.620 but look,

00:21:37.900 this is all

00:21:38.200 a long-winded

00:21:39.360 way of saying

00:21:39.900 that,

00:21:40.760 no,

00:21:40.980 I had no,

00:21:42.840 all I was

00:21:43.280 trying to do

00:21:43.720 was show

00:21:44.420 visible support

00:21:45.160 and say,

00:21:46.240 look,

00:21:46.600 you know,

00:21:46.820 as I said,

00:21:47.480 you can't be

00:21:47.760 more Ukrainian

00:21:48.220 than Ukrainians. 0.59

00:21:48.840 If you're

00:21:49.480 going to

00:21:49.660 settle,

00:21:51.280 then that's

00:21:51.860 a matter

00:21:52.060 for you.

00:21:52.980 If you're

00:21:54.360 going to

00:21:54.800 fight on,

00:21:56.580 then you

00:21:58.140 can count

00:21:58.800 on our

00:21:59.260 support.

00:22:00.620 That's what

00:22:01.140 I said.

00:22:01.960 And I

00:22:02.960 think that

00:22:03.440 people can

00:22:07.060 judge whether

00:22:08.540 I mean,

00:22:10.600 leaving aside

00:22:11.140 my advice

00:22:11.760 to President

00:22:13.600 Zelensky then,

00:22:15.200 people can

00:22:15.920 judge whether

00:22:16.660 or not he

00:22:17.240 did the

00:22:17.560 right thing

00:22:18.220 in fighting

00:22:19.360 on by

00:22:21.460 what happens

00:22:22.020 now.

00:22:23.340 And I

00:22:25.020 think,

00:22:25.860 actually,

00:22:27.040 when you

00:22:27.820 look at it,

00:22:28.580 that there

00:22:29.120 is a very

00:22:30.220 good chance

00:22:30.960 that out

00:22:32.680 of all

00:22:32.980 this,

00:22:33.740 there will

00:22:34.260 come a

00:22:35.580 free,

00:22:37.620 sovereign,

00:22:40.800 secure

00:22:41.320 Ukraine.

00:22:42.940 And that

00:22:45.680 would not

00:22:46.300 have happened

00:22:46.840 if you'd

00:22:48.260 left it,

00:22:49.240 if you'd

00:22:49.480 done a

00:22:49.720 deal in

00:22:50.140 April 2022.

00:22:51.900 It would

00:22:52.100 not have

00:22:52.400 been a

00:22:52.640 sovereign

00:22:52.900 Ukraine.

00:22:53.860 It would

00:22:54.040 not have

00:22:54.280 been a

00:22:54.480 free

00:22:54.800 Ukraine.

00:22:55.720 And it

00:22:57.180 would have

00:22:57.400 been run

00:22:57.700 by Russia

00:23:00.280 and by

00:23:01.840 Putin,

00:23:02.440 and it

00:23:03.260 would not

00:23:03.620 have had

00:23:03.900 any chance

00:23:04.660 of continuing

00:23:05.360 on its

00:23:05.860 journey

00:23:06.260 towards

00:23:06.880 democracy,

00:23:09.800 free

00:23:10.780 institutions,

00:23:12.160 and engagement

00:23:13.040 with the

00:23:13.420 West.

00:23:13.760 And that's

00:23:14.060 basically what

00:23:14.540 the Ukrainians

00:23:15.040 want,

00:23:15.980 and Putin

00:23:17.100 would have

00:23:17.380 stopped it.

00:23:18.740 And so...

00:23:19.680 Broadway's

00:23:20.640 smash hit,

00:23:21.560 the Neil

00:23:21.920 Diamond

00:23:22.200 musical,

00:23:23.000 A Beautiful

00:23:23.600 Noise,

00:23:24.460 is coming

00:23:24.960 to Toronto.

00:23:25.860 The true

00:23:26.240 story of a

00:23:26.900 kid from

00:23:27.320 Brooklyn,

00:23:27.920 destined

00:23:28.200 for something

00:23:28.800 more,

00:23:29.360 featuring all

00:23:29.900 the songs

00:23:30.360 you love,

00:23:31.120 including

00:23:31.480 America,

00:23:32.400 Forever in

00:23:32.860 Blue Jeans,

00:23:33.620 and Sweet

00:23:34.080 Caroline.

00:23:34.520 Like Jersey

00:23:35.700 Boys in 0.99

00:23:36.340 Beautiful,

00:23:36.920 the next

00:23:37.380 musical mega

00:23:38.260 hit is

00:23:38.660 here,

00:23:39.180 the Neil

00:23:39.600 Diamond

00:23:39.940 musical,

00:23:40.780 A Beautiful

00:23:41.340 Noise,

00:23:42.000 April 28

00:23:42.780 through June

00:23:43.360 7,

00:23:43.920 2026,

00:23:45.020 the Princess

00:23:45.480 of Wales

00:23:46.040 Theatre.

00:23:46.940 Get tickets

00:23:47.440 at

00:23:47.620 mirvish.com.

00:23:53.360 I think a lot

00:23:54.260 of Ukrainians,

00:23:55.160 I mean,

00:23:55.340 I can't,

00:23:55.820 you know,

00:23:56.480 I think a lot

00:23:58.080 of Ukrainians

00:23:58.500 would say

00:23:58.900 what they did

00:23:59.900 was completely

00:24:00.480 right.

00:24:01.500 I have a lot

00:24:01.960 of friends in

00:24:02.380 Ukraine who

00:24:02.820 would back

00:24:03.560 that up,

00:24:03.920 and you

00:24:04.220 are very

00:24:04.640 popular in

00:24:05.160 Ukraine because

00:24:06.260 of the support

00:24:06.960 that you gave

00:24:07.500 on behalf of

00:24:07.840 Iran.

00:24:07.860 Well,

00:24:08.080 look,

00:24:08.640 I will continue

00:24:09.400 to support

00:24:10.400 it for as long

00:24:11.700 and,

00:24:12.280 you know,

00:24:13.280 clearly,

00:24:16.400 I'm also hopeful

00:24:19.260 that there can

00:24:19.800 be peace,

00:24:20.820 right?

00:24:21.820 You know,

00:24:22.160 I don't want,

00:24:23.380 nobody wants

00:24:24.000 conflict for the

00:24:24.980 sake of conflict

00:24:26.300 and I actually

00:24:29.260 think that

00:24:30.020 what is happening

00:24:31.600 now is,

00:24:35.200 you know,

00:24:35.420 there is the

00:24:35.900 possibility,

00:24:36.280 you can see

00:24:36.880 the germ of

00:24:37.560 a solution.

00:24:39.720 So the

00:24:39.980 Ukrainians,

00:24:41.540 you know,

00:24:41.720 under the

00:24:43.220 resources agreement,

00:24:46.140 the minerals

00:24:46.480 agreement with

00:24:47.020 the United

00:24:47.260 States,

00:24:48.240 they get a

00:24:49.100 partnership with

00:24:49.940 the most powerful

00:24:51.040 country,

00:24:51.440 an economic,

00:24:51.840 long-term economic

00:24:52.440 partnership with the

00:24:52.840 most powerful

00:24:53.180 country on earth.

00:24:55.320 America commits 0.57

00:24:56.260 to a free,

00:24:56.940 sovereign,

00:24:57.600 secure Ukraine.

00:24:58.460 America commits 0.57

00:24:59.080 under the

00:24:59.580 minerals deal

00:25:00.160 and other bits

00:25:01.460 of the agreement,

00:25:02.100 which it's about

00:25:02.680 like a 200-page

00:25:03.480 agreement,

00:25:04.400 but it commits

00:25:05.080 the U.S.

00:25:05.660 to long-term

00:25:06.780 support for the

00:25:07.480 security of Ukraine.

00:25:09.300 I mean,

00:25:09.420 the beginnings

00:25:09.940 of a security

00:25:10.620 guarantee are

00:25:11.460 already in that

00:25:12.260 minerals agreement.

00:25:13.560 Then you've also

00:25:14.580 got the element

00:25:15.420 of the Europeans,

00:25:17.700 you know,

00:25:17.980 led by the Brits 0.97

00:25:18.940 and the French

00:25:20.240 coming in with this,

00:25:21.720 you know,

00:25:22.240 admittedly

00:25:22.780 symbolic but

00:25:23.560 important

00:25:24.240 reassurance force

00:25:25.940 or whatever

00:25:27.000 we're going to

00:25:27.660 call it,

00:25:30.360 boots,

00:25:30.940 you know,

00:25:31.620 European,

00:25:32.440 Western boots

00:25:33.020 on the ground

00:25:33.520 or boots

00:25:34.580 from all over

00:25:34.960 the place,

00:25:35.280 but on the

00:25:35.600 ground in

00:25:36.060 Ukraine,

00:25:37.420 to make visible

00:25:38.580 to Putin

00:25:39.280 the reality

00:25:40.640 of Ukraine's

00:25:41.580 choice,

00:25:42.720 that as a

00:25:43.160 free,

00:25:43.600 sovereign country,

00:25:44.280 they've chosen

00:25:44.940 to invite

00:25:45.640 France and

00:25:48.840 Britain onto 0.50

00:25:49.240 their soul.

00:25:50.000 And that's

00:25:50.300 something at the

00:25:51.920 moment.

00:25:52.120 Putin says

00:25:52.760 he can't

00:25:53.900 accept,

00:25:54.220 but we'll

00:25:54.840 see where

00:25:55.540 we get to.

00:25:56.460 And then

00:25:58.880 when the

00:25:59.620 concession

00:26:00.200 the Ukrainians,

00:26:00.900 I think,

00:26:01.580 have probably

00:26:02.060 made,

00:26:03.300 and, you

00:26:03.580 know,

00:26:03.680 we haven't

00:26:04.040 seen the

00:26:04.460 details,

00:26:04.940 but by

00:26:05.400 talking to

00:26:06.200 people,

00:26:07.140 as I'm

00:26:07.800 sure you

00:26:08.240 have as

00:26:08.780 well,

00:26:09.020 the last

00:26:09.240 few days,

00:26:11.180 I think

00:26:11.400 clearly what

00:26:12.620 the Trump

00:26:14.880 administration

00:26:15.320 wanted from

00:26:16.260 Ukraine

00:26:16.960 was some

00:26:18.260 sort of

00:26:18.560 recognition

00:26:19.120 of the

00:26:20.120 military

00:26:21.300 reality.

00:26:23.420 For the

00:26:24.080 sake of

00:26:24.500 peace,

00:26:25.820 it would

00:26:26.700 be helpful

00:26:27.220 to concede

00:26:28.500 that they

00:26:30.320 can't

00:26:30.640 immediately

00:26:31.320 reconquer

00:26:32.480 all of

00:26:33.660 the land

00:26:34.780 that's been

00:26:35.000 lost since

00:26:35.300 2014.

00:26:36.020 So they

00:26:36.240 can't

00:26:36.460 immediately

00:26:36.960 recapture

00:26:37.560 all of

00:26:38.280 1991

00:26:38.740 Ukraine.

00:26:39.380 For many

00:26:43.020 Ukrainians,

00:26:44.800 even that

00:26:45.480 is a

00:26:46.020 terrible

00:26:46.820 thing to

00:26:47.260 have to

00:26:47.560 say.

00:26:48.920 But,

00:26:49.180 you know,

00:26:49.500 I think

00:26:49.760 probably,

00:26:50.620 and it's

00:26:51.280 an awful

00:26:51.660 thing,

00:26:52.020 it's awful

00:26:52.560 to think

00:26:53.060 of Putin

00:26:53.520 retaining

00:26:54.540 possession

00:26:55.080 of this

00:26:56.280 land.

00:26:57.020 It's

00:26:57.180 awful.

00:26:58.360 But,

00:26:58.960 for the

00:26:59.240 sake of

00:26:59.620 peace,

00:27:01.040 it looks

00:27:01.840 like they're

00:27:03.180 willing,

00:27:04.100 for the

00:27:04.440 time being,

00:27:05.140 to go

00:27:05.720 along with

00:27:06.160 it.

00:27:06.660 On the

00:27:07.220 understanding,

00:27:08.900 of course,

00:27:09.380 that they

00:27:09.620 don't

00:27:09.840 actually

00:27:10.140 revoke

00:27:10.840 their

00:27:11.280 claim,

00:27:13.660 their

00:27:13.880 legal

00:27:14.200 claim,

00:27:15.500 to that

00:27:16.200 land.

00:27:16.680 So those

00:27:17.220 would be

00:27:17.420 the elements

00:27:17.840 of the

00:27:19.400 sort of

00:27:20.040 US-Ukraine

00:27:21.180 position,

00:27:21.800 as it

00:27:22.000 were.

00:27:23.200 So it's

00:27:23.640 the

00:27:24.200 minerals

00:27:25.740 deal,

00:27:26.740 with all

00:27:27.660 its

00:27:27.800 implications

00:27:28.380 for

00:27:28.980 security

00:27:29.440 and

00:27:30.160 economic

00:27:30.560 partnership,

00:27:31.940 the

00:27:32.180 European-led 0.90

00:27:34.040 peace

00:27:34.460 force,

00:27:34.800 Brit,

00:27:35.180 France,

00:27:35.800 whoever,

00:27:37.540 peacekeeping

00:27:38.020 force,

00:27:38.400 whatever you

00:27:38.660 want to

00:27:38.840 call it,

00:27:39.040 it wouldn't

00:27:39.240 actually be

00:27:39.820 a peacekeeping

00:27:40.180 force,

00:27:40.460 but it

00:27:40.620 would be

00:27:40.880 there in

00:27:41.140 the symbolic

00:27:42.160 logistics

00:27:42.900 training and

00:27:43.480 all that.

00:27:45.160 And then

00:27:46.200 the

00:27:47.020 temporary

00:27:48.580 acceptance

00:27:49.200 that there

00:27:51.440 can't be a

00:27:51.980 complete

00:27:52.500 reversal to

00:27:53.940 the status

00:27:54.360 quo

00:27:54.640 anti-2014.

00:27:57.580 OK?

00:27:58.240 Now,

00:27:59.220 all that,

00:28:02.200 you know,

00:28:02.480 some bitter

00:28:03.200 pills there for

00:28:03.940 Ukraine to

00:28:04.380 swallow,

00:28:04.640 terror,

00:28:05.300 but now

00:28:06.640 is the

00:28:06.960 time for

00:28:08.500 all that

00:28:09.260 to be

00:28:09.720 put to

00:28:10.180 Putin and

00:28:12.220 some other

00:28:12.580 important

00:28:13.060 things,

00:28:13.800 like return

00:28:14.500 those 20,000

00:28:15.380 children that

00:28:17.000 he's kidnapped,

00:28:18.700 and now is

00:28:20.240 the time for

00:28:20.680 Donald Trump,

00:28:21.820 with all this

00:28:22.500 fire and fury,

00:28:24.180 to put the

00:28:25.480 heat on Putin.

00:28:27.020 And that is

00:28:27.700 what,

00:28:28.060 obviously,

00:28:28.260 I hope we're

00:28:28.680 going to see

00:28:28.980 in the next

00:28:30.460 few days,

00:28:31.860 weeks.

00:28:32.140 Have you been

00:28:32.740 shocked by

00:28:33.440 Trump's

00:28:34.300 approach to

00:28:35.620 this situation?

00:28:37.800 No.

00:28:40.280 Absolutely.

00:28:41.920 I mean,

00:28:42.560 bluntly.

00:28:45.480 No,

00:28:46.120 I think,

00:28:46.700 look,

00:28:48.700 I always,

00:28:50.000 what I was

00:28:50.620 trying to argue

00:28:51.180 with,

00:28:51.480 people always

00:28:51.800 said,

00:28:52.000 oh,

00:28:52.080 it'd be

00:28:52.300 disaster,

00:28:52.860 Trump, 0.61

00:28:53.200 ah,

00:28:53.520 no.

00:28:54.820 You know,

00:28:55.100 he,

00:28:56.260 but actually,

00:28:57.040 I always

00:28:58.040 said,

00:28:58.300 wait,

00:28:58.560 wait,

00:28:58.800 wait,

00:28:59.120 you know,

00:28:59.420 it's sensible

00:29:00.620 to want this

00:29:01.080 war to end.

00:29:02.140 Right?

00:29:02.540 I think,

00:29:02.880 you know,

00:29:03.140 even,

00:29:03.620 even you,

00:29:04.200 you,

00:29:04.440 you,

00:29:04.740 Ukrainians,

00:29:05.660 you know,

00:29:06.040 I love,

00:29:06.520 love Ukraine,

00:29:07.360 but I think

00:29:07.840 that they want

00:29:08.960 to,

00:29:09.160 they want to

00:29:09.520 pause,

00:29:09.920 a lot of

00:29:10.280 people are

00:29:10.620 dying,

00:29:11.140 you know,

00:29:11.640 they don't

00:29:12.080 want to have

00:29:12.360 to start

00:29:13.280 conscripting

00:29:14.480 the under

00:29:14.740 25-year-olds,

00:29:15.560 you know,

00:29:15.800 you can see

00:29:16.900 the pain of

00:29:17.400 that country,

00:29:17.820 the country

00:29:18.640 going through

00:29:19.240 absolute hell.

00:29:21.180 And,

00:29:21.660 you know,

00:29:22.500 they deserve

00:29:22.960 a break and

00:29:23.780 they deserve

00:29:24.360 to be free.

00:29:24.840 And I think,

00:29:26.480 honestly,

00:29:27.700 what we were

00:29:28.460 doing in the

00:29:28.980 last

00:29:29.440 couple of

00:29:32.080 years,

00:29:32.700 I mean,

00:29:33.340 I left

00:29:33.700 office two

00:29:34.400 and a half

00:29:34.620 years ago,

00:29:35.000 you know,

00:29:36.060 almost three

00:29:36.860 years ago now.

00:29:39.740 But what we've

00:29:40.480 been doing

00:29:40.940 has not

00:29:41.800 been,

00:29:43.460 you know,

00:29:43.960 Constantine,

00:29:44.480 you said,

00:29:45.080 we didn't have

00:29:45.500 a plan.

00:29:46.520 What was the

00:29:46.920 objective that the

00:29:48.380 West was setting

00:29:48.960 out for Ukraine?

00:29:50.360 What was success

00:29:51.180 supposed to look

00:29:51.740 like?

00:29:52.100 We never said.

00:29:52.880 I mean,

00:29:53.920 I said,

00:29:54.780 right at the

00:29:55.140 beginning,

00:29:55.360 Putin must

00:29:55.760 fail,

00:29:57.360 Ukraine must

00:29:57.940 be free,

00:29:59.160 and so on.

00:30:00.620 But we sort

00:30:01.160 of lost the

00:30:02.260 sharp edges.

00:30:03.440 And what we

00:30:03.780 were doing was

00:30:04.380 just saying,

00:30:05.000 we'll support you

00:30:06.360 for as long

00:30:06.700 as it takes.

00:30:08.160 And we were

00:30:09.780 kind of holding

00:30:10.220 the Ukrainians

00:30:10.820 coats while they

00:30:12.140 were fighting

00:30:12.640 and dying

00:30:13.260 without actually 0.54

00:30:15.020 giving them

00:30:15.620 enough to win.

00:30:17.760 And I think...

00:30:18.100 Why were we

00:30:18.460 doing that?

00:30:19.440 Because,

00:30:20.880 honestly,

00:30:21.640 because it would

00:30:22.040 go back to the

00:30:22.600 same thing that

00:30:23.480 was stopping us

00:30:24.180 giving them,

00:30:24.900 stopping the

00:30:25.760 foreign office,

00:30:26.560 allowing me to

00:30:27.220 send them the 0.90

00:30:28.680 in-laws in the

00:30:29.740 first place.

00:30:30.800 Because there's

00:30:32.580 this sort of

00:30:33.300 superstitious

00:30:34.260 apprehension

00:30:35.800 about what

00:30:37.500 Putin might do.

00:30:39.860 And so...

00:30:40.200 You mean nuclear

00:30:40.580 weapons?

00:30:41.020 Yeah.

00:30:41.440 People's,

00:30:41.920 which I think is 0.56

00:30:42.740 ridiculous, 0.78

00:30:43.380 and I don't 0.99

00:30:43.860 believe it's true,

00:30:44.520 but there's a

00:30:45.480 sort of...

00:30:46.460 Why is that,

00:30:47.420 Boris?

00:30:47.880 Well,

00:30:48.180 let me just...

00:30:48.860 I think it's...

00:30:50.760 Well,

00:30:51.040 to any way, 0.94

00:30:51.380 it's ridiculous 0.92

00:30:51.860 because, 0.93

00:30:52.980 first of all,

00:30:57.180 if Putin were

00:30:59.060 to use a

00:31:00.740 tactical nuclear,

00:31:01.700 a battlefield

00:31:02.080 nuclear weapon,

00:31:04.960 let alone if you

00:31:05.560 were to...

00:31:05.960 He won't use a

00:31:07.660 thermonuclear device

00:31:08.640 against the place

00:31:09.880 he calls the

00:31:10.360 cradle of

00:31:10.720 Russian civilization,

00:31:11.800 but suppose he

00:31:12.160 were to use

00:31:12.540 battlefield tactical

00:31:13.360 nuclear weapons

00:31:15.500 to intimidate

00:31:16.920 and deter.

00:31:17.400 Well,

00:31:18.600 it would be

00:31:19.300 the first

00:31:19.740 use of

00:31:20.840 a nuclear

00:31:21.500 weapon

00:31:21.920 by a belligerent

00:31:24.060 as an act

00:31:26.460 of war

00:31:26.940 since 1945.

00:31:31.360 He would

00:31:32.060 immediately

00:31:32.840 lose,

00:31:35.520 crucially,

00:31:36.020 the backing

00:31:36.320 of Xi Jinping.

00:31:36.840 he would lose

00:31:44.720 the backing

00:31:45.080 of all

00:31:45.480 the swing

00:31:46.320 voters

00:31:46.780 in the world.

00:31:49.440 So,

00:31:49.660 one of the most

00:31:50.320 frustrating things

00:31:50.980 about backers

00:31:52.260 of Ukraine,

00:31:52.940 for people like me

00:31:54.240 who back Ukraine,

00:31:54.940 is that,

00:31:55.440 you know,

00:31:55.940 the Indians,

00:31:57.680 a lot of the

00:32:00.120 African countries,

00:32:00.840 Latin America,

00:32:01.460 our friends,

00:32:03.740 great,

00:32:04.100 great friends

00:32:04.460 of ours

00:32:04.740 in the Gulf,

00:32:05.300 you know,

00:32:05.760 they're kind of

00:32:06.360 a bit ambivalent,

00:32:07.220 right,

00:32:07.800 about Putin

00:32:08.460 and about Ukraine.

00:32:09.580 I mean,

00:32:10.640 and that's

00:32:11.820 been frustrating,

00:32:12.360 but Putin

00:32:13.380 uses a nuke,

00:32:15.180 different story.

00:32:16.940 Totally.

00:32:17.440 He loses

00:32:17.860 all that global

00:32:18.840 support,

00:32:20.100 all that global

00:32:21.000 acquiescence.

00:32:22.720 He scares

00:32:23.500 the pants

00:32:24.140 off his own

00:32:24.620 people,

00:32:25.520 because they

00:32:27.100 don't know

00:32:27.920 what's going

00:32:28.200 to happen.

00:32:29.540 They think,

00:32:30.860 he's played

00:32:31.760 the nuclear

00:32:32.140 card,

00:32:32.440 that could be

00:32:32.800 nuclear reprisals

00:32:33.520 against us.

00:32:35.320 And he loses

00:32:36.120 a huge amount

00:32:36.820 of domestic

00:32:37.180 support.

00:32:37.700 He'd terrify

00:32:38.280 people.

00:32:39.320 He does

00:32:40.000 incur

00:32:40.460 reprisals

00:32:42.240 from the West,

00:32:42.800 and I obviously

00:32:43.200 can't talk about

00:32:44.480 what they would

00:32:44.900 be,

00:32:45.180 because the

00:32:45.360 whole doctrine

00:32:45.720 of nuclear

00:32:46.900 deterrence

00:32:47.340 relies on a

00:32:47.920 lot of

00:32:48.420 ambiguity,

00:32:49.580 but there would

00:32:49.960 be very,

00:32:50.460 very serious

00:32:50.820 reprisals

00:32:51.320 from the

00:32:51.760 NATO countries

00:32:53.160 and from

00:32:53.540 the P5, 0.97

00:32:55.500 of a kind

00:32:56.220 that would be

00:32:56.460 deeply destructive.

00:33:01.660 That's what

00:33:02.240 you're saying.

00:33:02.560 What I'm saying

00:33:03.200 is,

00:33:03.860 we gave in

00:33:05.120 to the

00:33:05.400 general

00:33:05.780 kind of

00:33:06.480 superstition

00:33:07.980 about Putin,

00:33:09.220 or about

00:33:10.080 Russia.

00:33:11.300 The Russia 0.88

00:33:11.720 is spooky

00:33:13.360 and frightening

00:33:13.860 and is

00:33:16.240 inevitably

00:33:16.580 going to win

00:33:17.120 and we

00:33:17.600 shouldn't

00:33:17.840 provoke them.

00:33:18.840 Don't poke

00:33:19.700 the bear

00:33:20.020 thing.

00:33:20.480 And all

00:33:20.920 the evidence

00:33:21.400 of the

00:33:21.840 Ukraine

00:33:22.100 war has

00:33:22.520 been.

00:33:23.100 The stronger

00:33:23.820 we are,

00:33:24.620 the more

00:33:25.040 decisive we

00:33:25.580 are in

00:33:25.820 giving Ukraine

00:33:26.360 what they

00:33:27.740 need,

00:33:28.540 the better.

00:33:29.380 So back to

00:33:30.340 your question,

00:33:32.600 was I

00:33:32.980 shocked by the

00:33:34.180 Trump approach?

00:33:34.860 No,

00:33:38.700 because I think

00:33:39.360 we needed a

00:33:40.000 new approach.

00:33:42.580 We did need to

00:33:43.380 shake the

00:33:43.720 thing up.

00:33:45.640 We hadn't

00:33:46.340 got a clear

00:33:46.800 strategy anymore.

00:33:48.120 For the

00:33:49.080 Ukrainians,

00:33:49.500 it was 0.98

00:33:49.680 miserable.

00:33:51.060 And so you

00:33:51.500 needed someone

00:33:51.940 to come in

00:33:52.380 and say,

00:33:52.720 right,

00:33:52.840 I'm going to

00:33:53.060 try and make

00:33:53.420 peace,

00:33:54.360 which is what

00:33:54.860 the president

00:33:55.260 is trying

00:33:55.860 to do.

00:33:56.240 And as I

00:33:59.500 said just

00:33:59.840 now,

00:34:00.580 I think you

00:34:01.840 can see in

00:34:02.640 that package

00:34:03.720 of proposals

00:34:06.200 that they've

00:34:08.820 reached in

00:34:09.420 Riyadh,

00:34:10.740 you can see the

00:34:11.320 outlines of

00:34:11.800 something painful

00:34:13.500 though it might

00:34:13.980 be in some

00:34:14.420 ways for

00:34:14.780 Ukraine,

00:34:15.720 still keeps a

00:34:16.520 sovereign,

00:34:17.840 free Ukraine,

00:34:18.940 able to

00:34:19.900 apply for EU

00:34:22.380 membership,

00:34:22.940 able to do

00:34:24.940 all sorts of

00:34:25.460 things which

00:34:26.040 Putin finds 0.58

00:34:26.820 intolerable.

00:34:28.540 And the

00:34:29.000 question is

00:34:29.320 going to be

00:34:29.500 what Putin

00:34:30.540 does.

00:34:31.460 And so the

00:34:32.920 challenge now

00:34:34.480 is for

00:34:36.160 Donald Trump

00:34:38.200 to really

00:34:40.580 turn the

00:34:41.020 heat under.

00:34:41.600 And there

00:34:42.100 are things

00:34:42.440 he can do.

00:34:43.000 There's economic

00:34:43.520 sanctions,

00:34:45.420 the oil

00:34:45.840 price,

00:34:47.800 the oil

00:34:48.360 price down

00:34:48.800 below $60

00:34:49.260 a barrel,

00:34:51.020 which,

00:34:51.460 you know,

00:34:52.580 maybe Trump

00:34:54.780 could help

00:34:55.560 organize.

00:34:56.460 Putin's in a

00:34:57.240 very different

00:34:58.200 position.

00:34:59.400 Because then he

00:34:59.880 can't fund his

00:35:00.420 war machine in

00:35:01.840 the way that

00:35:02.220 he wants.

00:35:02.900 Then his

00:35:03.420 economy is

00:35:03.860 really in

00:35:04.220 trouble.

00:35:05.980 And, you

00:35:06.460 know,

00:35:07.140 Trump has a

00:35:08.620 lot of

00:35:08.840 economic

00:35:09.160 leverage over

00:35:09.900 Putin.

00:35:11.180 And we

00:35:12.600 need to see

00:35:12.940 that now.

00:35:14.060 Do you

00:35:14.300 think part of

00:35:15.060 the reason

00:35:15.500 that Liam

00:35:16.560 Halligan,

00:35:16.920 the economist,

00:35:17.500 made this

00:35:17.920 point,

00:35:18.800 literally

00:35:19.200 yesterday when

00:35:19.720 we interviewed

00:35:20.160 him,

00:35:20.520 that part of

00:35:21.400 the reason

00:35:21.860 Trump is

00:35:22.740 approaching the

00:35:23.560 Ukraine situation

00:35:24.340 in this way

00:35:24.920 is because

00:35:25.440 he doesn't

00:35:26.520 want to

00:35:27.000 alienate

00:35:27.480 Russia.

00:35:28.120 Because the 0.68

00:35:29.280 US's worst

00:35:30.420 nightmare is

00:35:31.440 Russia being 0.59

00:35:32.080 in the arms

00:35:32.580 of China

00:35:33.180 and them

00:35:33.880 having an

00:35:34.340 alliance

00:35:34.720 together.

00:35:37.060 Look,

00:35:37.700 I certainly

00:35:38.100 think it's

00:35:38.580 true that

00:35:39.780 there is

00:35:42.160 a hankering

00:35:44.820 in the

00:35:48.400 Trump circles

00:35:50.040 for a

00:35:51.420 renewal of

00:35:52.760 good relations

00:35:54.500 with Russia.

00:35:55.020 And people

00:35:55.260 remember a

00:35:55.900 time,

00:35:56.260 when I

00:35:56.800 was mayor

00:35:57.620 of London,

00:35:59.140 I had to

00:35:59.540 make speeches

00:36:00.040 in Russian

00:36:00.580 about

00:36:01.720 Muslim

00:36:03.120 or whatever

00:36:03.740 that festival

00:36:04.400 is called

00:36:04.900 and welcoming

00:36:05.660 Russians to

00:36:08.040 London and

00:36:08.700 the whole

00:36:09.720 place was

00:36:10.040 bristling

00:36:11.900 with oligarchs

00:36:12.660 everywhere.

00:36:14.960 In fact,

00:36:15.720 we overdid

00:36:16.080 it.

00:36:16.200 it's not

00:36:18.500 a bad

00:36:18.920 thing on

00:36:20.500 the whole

00:36:20.920 to want

00:36:21.300 peace and

00:36:21.680 friendship

00:36:22.020 with other

00:36:23.600 countries,

00:36:24.140 right?

00:36:24.720 As long as

00:36:25.120 they want

00:36:25.460 peace and

00:36:25.780 friendship.

00:36:25.880 As long as

00:36:26.300 they want

00:36:26.580 peace and

00:36:26.900 friendship.

00:36:27.640 And I

00:36:29.460 think where

00:36:30.460 the rubber

00:36:30.900 is going to

00:36:31.220 hit the

00:36:31.520 road now

00:36:32.120 is when

00:36:33.220 those guys

00:36:34.520 discover what

00:36:35.860 Putin actually

00:36:36.880 wants.

00:36:37.700 And I

00:36:39.640 think I

00:36:41.700 very much

00:36:42.400 fear that

00:36:43.420 it's going

00:36:43.860 to be clear

00:36:44.480 in the next

00:36:44.780 few days he

00:36:45.200 doesn't want

00:36:45.580 peace.

00:36:46.520 And he's

00:36:47.340 not going

00:36:47.540 to give

00:36:47.700 those kids

00:36:48.080 back.

00:36:49.360 He's not

00:36:49.660 going to

00:36:50.020 agree to

00:36:50.520 the...

00:36:50.860 He's not

00:36:51.060 going to

00:36:51.220 agree to

00:36:51.560 it.

00:36:51.740 You've

00:36:52.060 heard what

00:36:52.320 Lavrov said

00:36:52.860 already about

00:36:53.420 the European

00:36:54.480 force.

00:36:55.980 He said it

00:36:56.900 would be a

00:36:57.360 catastrophic

00:36:58.140 escalation to

00:36:59.520 have British

00:37:00.160 boots on the

00:37:00.700 ground.

00:37:01.260 It's total

00:37:01.580 nonsense.

00:37:02.060 A sovereign

00:37:02.820 country should

00:37:03.480 be able to

00:37:03.840 invite whomsoever 0.99

00:37:04.780 it chooses.

00:37:05.580 Actually, I

00:37:06.080 thought it was

00:37:06.300 quite interesting

00:37:06.760 that President

00:37:07.580 Trump said

00:37:08.320 that Putin

00:37:12.220 had agreed

00:37:12.880 to that.

00:37:13.300 You saw.

00:37:14.320 I mean,

00:37:15.180 Trump said

00:37:15.680 he said I

00:37:16.460 asked him

00:37:16.900 that and

00:37:17.220 he said he

00:37:17.640 didn't have

00:37:17.960 a problem

00:37:18.260 with it.

00:37:18.840 I'm more

00:37:19.260 or less

00:37:19.400 quoting exactly

00:37:20.020 what the

00:37:21.020 president said

00:37:21.620 about his

00:37:21.980 conversation with

00:37:22.580 Putin.

00:37:22.960 So, you

00:37:24.340 know, let's

00:37:25.820 see where we

00:37:26.160 get to because

00:37:26.580 if I were

00:37:28.200 Putin, you

00:37:29.700 know, I

00:37:33.740 don't want to be a

00:37:34.280 spin doctor for

00:37:34.960 Putin, right?

00:37:35.560 But if I

00:37:37.120 were Putin, I

00:37:39.680 think I could

00:37:40.420 try and

00:37:41.900 explain myself,

00:37:43.640 yes, it's

00:37:44.960 been a

00:37:45.200 catastrophe for

00:37:45.880 him and

00:37:46.360 he's lost

00:37:46.920 850,000 people

00:37:48.780 killed or

00:37:49.160 seriously injured

00:37:49.820 soldiers.

00:37:51.620 It's been

00:37:52.280 an economic

00:37:52.740 catastrophe.

00:37:55.380 But Russia's 0.81

00:37:57.720 been able to

00:37:59.280 absorb these

00:37:59.800 losses.

00:38:00.140 the economy

00:38:01.640 actually has,

00:38:02.640 you know, he's

00:38:02.940 converted it into

00:38:03.760 a kind of

00:38:04.440 Keynesian, you 0.97

00:38:05.580 know, war

00:38:05.920 economy and

00:38:06.480 it's actually

00:38:07.040 to some extent

00:38:07.780 worked.

00:38:09.920 I think, you

00:38:10.820 know, he

00:38:11.160 could say,

00:38:11.760 look, folks,

00:38:15.160 we're ending

00:38:16.100 the special

00:38:16.600 military operation.

00:38:17.400 it's been a

00:38:19.640 great success.

00:38:22.040 We have, the

00:38:22.960 undertakings I've

00:38:23.760 had from, from

00:38:25.700 Kiev have 1.00

00:38:26.280 reassured me

00:38:26.980 that the

00:38:28.860 Nazis have

00:38:31.820 been removed.

00:38:34.040 Well, no, you

00:38:34.480 laugh, but I

00:38:35.160 mean, this is

00:38:35.980 what Lavrov

00:38:36.400 said.

00:38:36.700 She can sell 0.81

00:38:37.260 the wind to

00:38:37.680 the Russian

00:38:38.020 people.

00:38:39.160 Lavrov

00:38:39.560 talked about

00:38:40.220 Nazis in 0.55

00:38:41.000 Kiev, right?

00:38:41.480 So they

00:38:42.000 believe that it's 0.92

00:38:42.900 full of Nazis. 0.81

00:38:44.260 So we've 0.62

00:38:45.500 removed the

00:38:45.980 Nazis.

00:38:46.420 It's like the

00:38:46.720 end of, you

00:38:47.220 know, Raiders

00:38:48.080 of the Lost

00:38:48.500 Ark when

00:38:48.920 the Nazis 0.78

00:38:49.980 all melt 0.96

00:38:50.420 down.

00:38:52.320 And so

00:38:53.200 it's been a

00:38:53.980 great success.

00:38:55.840 We're in the

00:38:56.820 name of peace.

00:38:58.120 Russia is, you 1.00

00:39:00.020 know, we

00:39:00.520 will, of

00:39:01.140 course, maintain

00:39:02.000 the bulk of

00:39:06.520 the lands that

00:39:07.020 we have

00:39:07.360 invaded.

00:39:09.060 You know,

00:39:09.260 that's where

00:39:11.000 a serious

00:39:12.240 negotiation will

00:39:12.920 have to take

00:39:13.360 place about

00:39:13.840 what exactly

00:39:14.680 goes back to

00:39:15.260 Ukraine and

00:39:15.600 what doesn't

00:39:16.380 now.

00:39:18.780 And I

00:39:20.120 think he

00:39:20.520 connects.

00:39:21.140 So, you

00:39:23.640 know, to

00:39:23.820 your question

00:39:24.200 about, well,

00:39:26.640 are we

00:39:26.960 provoking

00:39:27.460 Putin?

00:39:30.440 I think he

00:39:31.380 has, you

00:39:31.840 know, are we

00:39:32.360 going to

00:39:32.620 provoke him to

00:39:33.080 do something

00:39:33.320 irrational like

00:39:34.000 nuclear weapons?

00:39:34.780 I think he

00:39:36.240 has a lot of

00:39:37.040 political space

00:39:38.020 he can use

00:39:39.200 before he

00:39:39.700 has to do

00:39:40.960 that.

00:39:43.240 I happen to

00:39:44.080 know what

00:39:44.340 he's very

00:39:44.680 good at is

00:39:46.020 giving the

00:39:47.960 impression to

00:39:49.460 our American

00:39:51.300 friends that

00:39:52.540 he's the

00:39:52.940 reasonable one.

00:39:54.920 You know,

00:39:55.540 he's really

00:39:56.640 with it, but

00:39:57.360 behind me I've

00:39:57.940 got these, you

00:39:58.460 know, real

00:39:58.840 psychos who

00:39:59.760 are ultra

00:40:00.580 nationalists and,

00:40:01.520 you know, they're

00:40:02.400 making it much

00:40:03.140 more difficult

00:40:03.560 for me to

00:40:03.940 concede.

00:40:04.440 I think that's

00:40:04.980 bollocks, by

00:40:05.400 the way, but

00:40:05.720 that's what

00:40:06.320 he's quite

00:40:08.360 effective in

00:40:09.480 persuading people

00:40:10.160 of that.

00:40:11.200 So I think

00:40:11.700 he's strong,

00:40:16.500 he has the

00:40:17.100 space to

00:40:17.540 make a

00:40:20.280 concession and

00:40:21.900 get out.

00:40:24.060 A deal can

00:40:24.840 be done, I

00:40:25.260 hear you.

00:40:25.500 I think so.

00:40:26.280 Do you agree

00:40:27.020 with me?

00:40:28.980 We're going to

00:40:29.540 see over the

00:40:30.000 days to come.

00:40:31.500 We will find

00:40:32.460 out.

00:40:32.600 I want to

00:40:32.960 ask you one

00:40:33.440 other question

00:40:33.900 about Ukraine.

00:40:34.760 I think it

00:40:36.500 was worth

00:40:36.940 pursuing.

00:40:37.640 I know that

00:40:39.780 a lot of

00:40:40.120 plasters come

00:40:40.660 off the

00:40:40.940 ceiling in

00:40:41.700 the

00:40:42.160 chancellories

00:40:42.720 of Europe

00:40:43.240 about the

00:40:44.740 way, you

00:40:45.420 know,

00:40:46.700 President Trump

00:40:47.420 has handled

00:40:47.900 it and the

00:40:48.660 way it went

00:40:49.380 10 days ago

00:40:50.620 or so in

00:40:51.160 the Oval

00:40:51.940 Office and

00:40:52.580 everybody's,

00:40:53.220 you know,

00:40:53.400 been freaking

00:40:53.840 out and

00:40:54.220 saying it's

00:40:54.480 the end of

00:40:54.760 the Atlantic

00:40:55.140 Alliance and

00:40:55.760 blah, blah,

00:40:56.120 fish cakes.

00:40:56.720 And I don't

00:40:57.660 think that's

00:40:58.360 true.

00:40:59.140 Understood.

00:41:00.060 I want to

00:41:00.360 ask you one

00:41:00.760 other question

00:41:01.240 about this

00:41:01.920 Russia thing 0.59

00:41:02.660 and then I

00:41:03.100 want to move

00:41:03.440 on to domestic

00:41:04.020 issues.

00:41:05.020 You know how

00:41:05.880 coffee gets you

00:41:06.620 going in the

00:41:07.120 morning but a

00:41:07.840 few hours later

00:41:08.640 that caffeine

00:41:09.480 crash hits?

00:41:10.940 What if I told

00:41:11.580 you there's a

00:41:11.960 way to make

00:41:12.440 your coffee

00:41:12.980 work smarter

00:41:13.600 for you?

00:41:14.340 That's where

00:41:14.880 AlphaCell's

00:41:15.600 Neuromagnesium

00:41:16.580 comes in.

00:41:17.320 It's a game

00:41:17.940 changer because it

00:41:18.760 combines magnesium

00:41:19.800 with L-theanine,

00:41:21.520 an amino acid

00:41:22.600 found in green

00:41:23.400 tea known for

00:41:24.280 its relaxation

00:41:25.220 and cognitive

00:41:26.300 benefits.

00:41:26.920 When paired

00:41:27.760 with caffeine,

00:41:28.920 L-theanine

00:41:29.580 creates a

00:41:30.340 synergistic

00:41:31.060 effect,

00:41:31.860 releasing

00:41:32.340 energy slowly

00:41:33.580 over time

00:41:34.320 for sustained

00:41:35.080 focus without

00:41:36.140 the jitters

00:41:36.760 or the

00:41:37.540 crash.

00:41:38.600 Neuromagnesium

00:41:39.280 is tasteless

00:41:40.180 so you can

00:41:40.960 mix it with

00:41:41.440 coffee or

00:41:42.120 any drink

00:41:42.800 without altering

00:41:43.600 the flavor.

00:41:44.520 Plus it

00:41:45.000 doubles as

00:41:45.600 an electrolyte

00:41:46.500 making it

00:41:47.220 perfect for

00:41:47.760 hydration during

00:41:48.600 the day or

00:41:49.500 promoting deeper

00:41:50.400 sleep at night.

00:41:51.760 And here's what

00:41:52.380 sets AlphaCell

00:41:53.480 apart.

00:41:54.240 They're committed

00:41:54.680 to quality,

00:41:55.700 no artificial

00:41:56.280 sweeteners,

00:41:57.220 no plastic

00:41:57.800 packaging,

00:41:58.680 just glass

00:41:59.440 bottles to

00:42:00.060 keep microplastics

00:42:01.260 out of your

00:42:02.020 body.

00:42:02.580 They even post

00:42:03.560 third-party lab

00:42:04.700 results for

00:42:05.300 total transparency.

00:42:07.060 So whether it's

00:42:07.500 for sharper focus,

00:42:08.480 better hydration

00:42:09.200 or more restful

00:42:10.400 sleep,

00:42:11.340 Neuromagnesium

00:42:12.440 is the way to

00:42:13.260 go.

00:42:13.900 Visit

00:42:14.260 AlphaCell

00:42:15.400 hyphen

00:42:16.200 labs.com

00:42:17.240 or scan the

00:42:18.160 QR code

00:42:19.000 on the screen.

00:42:20.400 Use code

00:42:21.040 TRIG20

00:42:22.300 for 20%

00:42:23.600 off.

00:42:24.520 That's

00:42:24.940 AlphaCell

00:42:25.640 dash

00:42:26.400 labs

00:42:26.920 dot com

00:42:28.160 code

00:42:28.860 TRIG20

00:42:29.920 with their

00:42:30.640 30-day

00:42:31.480 money-back

00:42:32.060 guarantee.

00:42:33.020 You've got

00:42:33.420 nothing to

00:42:34.040 lose

00:42:34.360 except maybe

00:42:35.440 the crash.

00:42:36.740 Right,

00:42:37.740 now back to

00:42:38.520 the show.

00:42:39.580 You mentioned

00:42:40.460 that in your

00:42:40.860 time,

00:42:41.120 this is something

00:42:41.520 I've always

00:42:42.000 thought about

00:42:42.420 and I've

00:42:42.720 said publicly

00:42:43.660 quite a bit

00:42:44.160 about this

00:42:44.540 too.

00:42:45.680 You mentioned

00:42:46.400 your time

00:42:46.740 as mayor

00:42:47.080 of London,

00:42:47.680 oligarchs 1.00

00:42:48.180 everywhere.

00:42:49.300 In those days

00:42:51.100 it was not,

00:42:51.440 I was proud.

00:42:52.580 When I was

00:42:52.920 mayor of London,

00:42:53.360 I said that

00:42:55.040 we had more

00:42:55.980 billionaires in

00:42:56.760 London than

00:42:57.200 any other city

00:42:57.860 in the world.

00:42:58.280 I was very

00:42:58.540 proud of it.

00:42:58.920 I said that

00:42:59.200 London is to

00:42:59.940 the billionaires

00:43:00.420 as the jungles

00:43:01.160 of Sumatra

00:43:01.760 are to the

00:43:02.220 orangutan.

00:43:02.740 It is their

00:43:03.760 natural habitat.

00:43:05.560 And people

00:43:06.780 nowadays get

00:43:07.260 very cross

00:43:07.600 and they think

00:43:07.960 it's all

00:43:08.220 terrible.

00:43:09.040 They should 1.00

00:43:09.300 be hung 1.00

00:43:10.580 from the 0.77

00:43:10.840 landposts.

00:43:11.720 But actually

00:43:12.020 I would go

00:43:14.460 back to that.

00:43:15.100 And I think

00:43:15.280 what we've

00:43:15.600 done,

00:43:16.000 by the way,

00:43:16.360 you know,

00:43:17.060 for the first

00:43:18.940 time,

00:43:19.180 Let me ask

00:43:19.640 the question

00:43:20.080 before you

00:43:20.560 answer it.

00:43:21.340 It's a

00:43:21.520 disaster.

00:43:23.200 We're kicking 1.00

00:43:23.720 these people 0.98

00:43:24.100 out.

00:43:24.280 I agree with

00:43:24.840 you.

00:43:25.380 I go around

00:43:25.900 the world

00:43:26.240 now and I

00:43:26.720 meet so

00:43:27.180 many people

00:43:27.520 who say

00:43:27.860 London is

00:43:29.780 the greatest

00:43:30.120 place in the

00:43:30.760 world.

00:43:30.860 You can't

00:43:31.420 get a

00:43:31.700 question in

00:43:32.140 edgeways.

00:43:33.140 Boris,

00:43:33.640 I agree

00:43:34.360 with you

00:43:34.620 about

00:43:34.820 billionaires.

00:43:35.440 I agree

00:43:35.800 that it's

00:43:36.140 bad that

00:43:36.480 we're losing

00:43:36.900 wealthy

00:43:37.220 people.

00:43:37.880 I agree

00:43:38.300 with you

00:43:38.540 about all

00:43:39.000 of that.

00:43:39.680 I was

00:43:39.980 talking

00:43:40.200 specifically

00:43:40.720 about

00:43:40.980 Russia.

00:43:41.500 And the

00:43:41.700 question I

00:43:42.060 want to

00:43:42.280 ask you

00:43:42.600 is do

00:43:42.860 you think

00:43:43.180 we as

00:43:43.460 a country

00:43:43.920 failed to

00:43:45.160 understand

00:43:45.760 what Vladimir

00:43:46.420 Putin is

00:43:47.280 or had

00:43:47.720 become

00:43:48.220 when he

00:43:49.040 was murdering 0.68

00:43:49.740 British

00:43:50.040 citizens on

00:43:50.700 our streets

00:43:51.120 with radioactive

00:43:51.840 poisons?

00:43:52.840 Do you

00:43:53.100 think we

00:43:53.540 failed back

00:43:54.260 then because

00:43:55.240 frankly there

00:43:56.420 were too

00:43:56.720 many Russian

00:43:57.240 oligarchs here 1.00

00:43:58.020 making a lot

00:43:58.640 of money for

00:43:59.080 people in

00:43:59.480 the city

00:43:59.800 and elsewhere

00:44:00.280 and because

00:44:02.040 of that we

00:44:02.700 were far

00:44:03.100 too reluctant

00:44:03.660 to go oh

00:44:04.720 this guy is

00:44:05.240 actually a

00:44:05.600 hostile actor?

00:44:06.680 I think

00:44:07.000 when you look

00:44:07.940 at things like

00:44:08.540 the poisoning

00:44:09.160 of Litvinenko

00:44:10.000 and you

00:44:11.920 know remember

00:44:12.220 this poor guy

00:44:12.900 who was a

00:44:13.460 KGB guy

00:44:14.260 and was

00:44:15.020 poisoned with

00:44:15.860 polonium

00:44:16.520 and that

00:44:18.280 restaurant in

00:44:19.960 London

00:44:20.200 tea

00:44:22.100 you know

00:44:24.120 that was

00:44:25.000 terrible

00:44:25.420 and I

00:44:27.340 think when

00:44:27.860 looking back

00:44:28.560 you can see

00:44:29.660 a certain

00:44:30.180 gingerliness

00:44:30.900 in the way

00:44:32.120 the British

00:44:32.600 state responded

00:44:33.420 to that

00:44:33.980 initially

00:44:34.420 as my

00:44:35.440 memory is

00:44:36.240 we were a

00:44:37.140 little bit

00:44:37.520 sort of you

00:44:37.940 know we

00:44:38.560 didn't do

00:44:39.320 total freak

00:44:39.960 out

00:44:40.260 and I

00:44:40.700 think your

00:44:41.560 point is

00:44:41.920 probably right

00:44:42.580 I think

00:44:43.480 that we

00:44:43.980 you know

00:44:45.080 we thought

00:44:45.400 we had

00:44:45.940 big equities

00:44:46.500 with Russia

00:44:47.000 you know

00:44:47.520 maybe there

00:44:47.960 was something

00:44:48.360 you know

00:44:48.680 maybe there

00:44:49.080 was more

00:44:49.420 to the

00:44:50.180 Litvinenko

00:44:50.600 thing than

00:44:50.980 met the

00:44:51.240 eye

00:44:51.460 and

00:44:54.480 I think

00:44:58.140 it is

00:44:59.960 true

00:45:00.420 that politicians

00:45:02.040 from you

00:45:04.380 know

00:45:04.660 Bill Clinton

00:45:06.240 Hillary Clinton

00:45:06.900 onwards

00:45:08.020 everybody

00:45:08.420 you know

00:45:09.040 David Cameron

00:45:10.660 all of us

00:45:11.380 everybody

00:45:11.900 always thought

00:45:14.200 that there

00:45:16.060 should be a

00:45:16.360 reset with

00:45:16.760 Russia at

00:45:17.180 some stage

00:45:17.780 and

00:45:18.000 everybody who

00:45:21.820 tried it

00:45:22.460 ended up being

00:45:23.660 bitterly

00:45:24.100 disappointed

00:45:24.560 and I

00:45:25.680 got to put

00:45:25.980 my hands

00:45:26.300 up

00:45:26.420 I tried

00:45:26.840 I might

00:45:27.100 say that

00:45:27.360 I explained

00:45:27.760 it in the

00:45:28.040 book

00:45:28.180 I mean

00:45:28.380 I had

00:45:28.620 this

00:45:28.760 absolutely

00:45:29.140 appalling

00:45:29.560 I went

00:45:30.700 I did

00:45:30.940 a trip

00:45:31.220 to Moscow

00:45:31.640 when I was

00:45:32.000 foreign secretary

00:45:32.620 and it was

00:45:33.860 absolutely

00:45:34.160 ghastly 0.92

00:45:34.680 and you

00:45:36.360 know we

00:45:36.560 sat in

00:45:36.940 the

00:45:37.040 not Soviet

00:45:38.740 the Russian

00:45:39.340 felt Soviet 0.73

00:45:41.040 Russian

00:45:42.580 and I

00:45:43.820 was put

00:45:44.300 in front

00:45:44.480 of this

00:45:44.660 roaring

00:45:45.700 fire

00:45:46.220 and made

00:45:47.100 to drink

00:45:47.420 lots of

00:45:47.860 glasses of

00:45:48.660 coloured

00:45:48.860 vodka

00:45:49.180 and it

00:45:50.580 was like

00:45:50.860 a curious

00:45:52.180 torture

00:45:52.620 was made

00:45:53.960 to get

00:45:54.200 very drunk

00:45:54.840 and very

00:45:55.140 hot at

00:45:55.640 the same

00:45:55.920 time

00:45:56.240 and then

00:45:57.440 had to

00:45:57.860 listen to

00:45:58.240 Lavrov's

00:45:58.820 endless

00:45:59.180 sermonising

00:46:00.080 and we

00:46:01.060 achieved

00:46:01.420 nothing

00:46:01.880 absolutely

00:46:02.720 nothing

00:46:03.080 and then

00:46:03.820 I wanted

00:46:05.180 to try

00:46:05.540 to find

00:46:05.960 scientific

00:46:06.800 cooperation

00:46:07.480 artistic

00:46:07.920 collaboration

00:46:08.660 things where

00:46:09.420 Britain and

00:46:10.760 Russia could 0.60

00:46:11.340 two great

00:46:12.780 powers that

00:46:13.340 fought to

00:46:13.800 defeat

00:46:14.080 Nazism 0.87

00:46:14.580 and so

00:46:14.840 all the

00:46:15.120 usual

00:46:15.460 things

00:46:16.120 nothing

00:46:18.440 nothing

00:46:19.620 and then

00:46:21.140 a few

00:46:22.120 months later

00:46:22.520 they did

00:46:23.760 the Salisbury

00:46:24.220 poisonings

00:46:24.960 which was

00:46:25.580 an absolute

00:46:26.000 sort of

00:46:26.360 two fingers

00:46:27.000 up to the

00:46:27.440 entire

00:46:27.740 British public

00:46:28.280 and then

00:46:28.720 they had

00:46:28.980 those guys

00:46:29.420 those goons 1.00

00:46:30.140 you know

00:46:31.160 sitting on

00:46:32.200 being interviewed

00:46:33.340 on TV

00:46:33.860 saying

00:46:34.460 you know

00:46:36.300 we visited

00:46:38.140 Salisbury

00:46:38.700 that has

00:46:39.940 the tallest

00:46:40.320 spire

00:46:40.840 anywhere

00:46:41.280 in Britain

00:46:42.660 and you

00:46:43.820 know

00:46:44.000 we went

00:46:45.180 back again

00:46:45.940 the following

00:46:46.420 day

00:46:46.660 because it

00:46:47.040 was too

00:46:47.420 slushy

00:46:47.920 the first

00:46:48.280 day

00:46:48.560 and you

00:46:48.860 know

00:46:48.940 it was

00:46:49.120 just

00:46:49.380 as a

00:46:50.080 Russian

00:46:50.260 I find

00:46:50.640 that terrible 0.99

00:46:51.100 Russian

00:46:51.420 action

00:46:51.700 deeply

00:46:52.140 I'm

00:46:55.720 triggered

00:46:56.080 but it

00:46:57.840 was painful

00:46:58.320 right

00:46:58.600 and they

00:46:59.280 were laughing

00:46:59.720 at us

00:47:00.240 I think

00:47:01.080 and then

00:47:01.640 they made

00:47:01.960 him an

00:47:02.200 MP

00:47:02.420 one of

00:47:02.760 those

00:47:02.900 two

00:47:03.040 guys

00:47:03.160 it's

00:47:03.340 disgusting

00:47:03.740 it's 0.97

00:47:04.160 disgusting

00:47:04.580 so 0.99

00:47:05.640 somehow

00:47:07.120 or other

00:47:11.760 we lost

00:47:13.480 Russia

00:47:13.860 I still

00:47:15.520 think that

00:47:16.100 I still

00:47:16.560 think that

00:47:16.980 there could

00:47:18.340 have been

00:47:18.560 a time

00:47:18.960 in the

00:47:19.240 90s

00:47:19.860 probably

00:47:22.160 quite

00:47:22.420 early

00:47:22.660 on

00:47:22.860 in the

00:47:23.080 90s

00:47:23.660 when we

00:47:24.840 could have

00:47:25.080 had a

00:47:25.320 different

00:47:25.500 outcome

00:47:26.000 for this

00:47:26.640 thing

00:47:26.880 I think

00:47:28.460 because

00:47:29.800 it is a

00:47:31.220 great country

00:47:31.820 it is an

00:47:32.720 amazing

00:47:33.020 civilization

00:47:33.700 of course

00:47:34.380 and it's a

00:47:36.160 European

00:47:36.480 civilization

00:47:37.040 it is

00:47:38.420 and it's

00:47:40.340 a tragedy

00:47:42.140 but

00:47:42.700 right now

00:47:44.440 it's very

00:47:44.900 very hard

00:47:45.300 to fix

00:47:45.680 and it

00:47:46.940 can only

00:47:47.440 be fixed

00:47:47.920 through

00:47:48.140 strength

00:47:48.760 only

00:47:50.160 through

00:47:50.420 strength

00:47:50.780 agree with

00:47:51.660 you

00:47:51.800 moving to

00:47:52.920 domestic

00:47:53.320 matters

00:47:53.760 Boris

00:47:54.100 you've

00:47:54.360 always

00:47:54.620 been

00:47:54.800 a huge

00:47:57.760 fan

00:47:58.200 and

00:47:58.800 supporter

00:47:59.640 of net

00:48:00.280 zero

00:48:00.640 why is

00:48:02.160 that

00:48:02.360 Boris

00:48:02.680 depends

00:48:03.100 when

00:48:03.460 net

00:48:03.840 zero

00:48:04.100 is

00:48:04.280 achieved

00:48:04.700 but

00:48:04.900 yes

00:48:05.160 I

00:48:05.320 have

00:48:05.560 in

00:48:05.880 the

00:48:06.820 sense

00:48:07.000 I

00:48:07.160 think

00:48:07.400 it

00:48:09.860 depends

00:48:10.020 what you

00:48:10.180 mean

00:48:10.300 by

00:48:10.440 always

00:48:10.760 by

00:48:10.960 the

00:48:11.040 way

00:48:11.180 because

00:48:11.520 if

00:48:12.320 you

00:48:12.420 look

00:48:12.540 sadly

00:48:13.740 if

00:48:13.960 you

00:48:14.060 read

00:48:14.260 my

00:48:14.740 you

00:48:16.260 had

00:48:16.560 a

00:48:16.720 valiance

00:48:17.100 with

00:48:17.320 Piers

00:48:17.600 Corbyn

00:48:18.080 many

00:48:18.540 millions

00:48:18.980 of

00:48:19.160 words

00:48:21.300 I've

00:48:21.540 written

00:48:21.740 on

00:48:22.240 this

00:48:22.440 subject

00:48:22.780 over

00:48:23.040 the

00:48:23.200 years

00:48:23.980 I've

00:48:24.640 sort

00:48:24.800 of

00:48:24.900 what

00:48:25.080 happened

00:48:25.360 really

00:48:25.580 was

00:48:25.860 I

00:48:28.080 began

00:48:28.540 as

00:48:29.540 a

00:48:30.100 pretty

00:48:31.120 sort

00:48:31.600 of

00:48:32.040 acid

00:48:33.120 vinegary

00:48:33.760 climate

00:48:34.600 sceptic

00:48:35.240 and

00:48:35.960 so

00:48:38.540 I

00:48:39.800 hated

00:48:40.420 the

00:48:40.640 sort

00:48:40.800 of

00:48:40.900 religiosity

00:48:41.720 of

00:48:42.940 the

00:48:43.060 whole

00:48:43.280 thing

00:48:43.580 and

00:48:44.640 I

00:48:44.860 hated

00:48:45.160 the

00:48:45.380 way

00:48:45.780 people

00:48:47.280 who

00:48:47.740 were

00:48:48.340 doing

00:48:48.540 ordinary

00:48:48.840 things

00:48:49.360 were

00:48:49.540 made

00:48:49.680 to

00:48:49.800 feel

00:48:49.920 bad

00:48:50.460 and

00:48:51.700 I

00:48:51.880 thought

00:48:52.080 it

00:48:52.180 was

00:48:52.300 very

00:48:52.560 preachy

00:48:53.140 and

00:48:53.300 it

00:48:53.400 was

00:48:53.540 basically

00:48:53.880 all

00:48:54.340 a

00:48:54.460 socialist

00:48:54.800 plot

00:48:55.260 to

00:48:55.900 try

00:48:56.060 to

00:48:56.180 stop

00:48:56.440 people

00:48:56.820 living

00:48:57.080 their

00:48:57.280 lives

00:48:57.520 as

00:48:57.640 they

00:48:57.760 wanted

00:48:58.060 and

00:48:58.500 to

00:48:58.640 coerce

00:48:59.600 people

00:48:59.860 into

00:49:00.060 certain

00:49:00.360 patterns

00:49:00.740 of

00:49:00.900 behavior

00:49:01.300 and

00:49:01.960 I

00:49:02.080 hated

00:49:02.340 that

00:49:02.680 and I

00:49:02.920 thought

00:49:03.040 it was

00:49:03.160 like

00:49:03.300 an

00:49:03.400 Aztec

00:49:03.920 religion

00:49:04.680 you know

00:49:05.060 the sun

00:49:05.600 is cross

00:49:06.200 sun

00:49:06.660 will

00:49:07.460 fry us

00:49:08.340 and

00:49:09.120 we must

00:49:10.240 do

00:49:10.460 if we

00:49:11.040 follow certain

00:49:12.180 patterns

00:49:12.600 if we

00:49:13.040 recycle

00:49:13.620 if we

00:49:14.540 do all

00:49:15.340 this

00:49:15.460 so

00:49:15.740 what

00:49:15.840 changed

00:49:16.080 your mind

00:49:16.360 and

00:49:16.800 you'll

00:49:18.120 find

00:49:18.340 terrible

00:49:18.720 articles

00:49:19.100 I

00:49:19.280 wrote

00:49:19.640 saying

00:49:20.160 that

00:49:20.460 you

00:49:21.080 know

00:49:21.620 wind

00:49:24.260 power

00:49:24.540 never

00:49:24.800 pull

00:49:25.020 the skin

00:49:25.280 off

00:49:25.440 rice

00:49:25.660 pudding

00:49:26.000 and

00:49:26.480 all

00:49:27.620 this

00:49:27.740 sort

00:49:27.860 of

00:49:27.900 stuff

00:49:28.180 and

00:49:28.680 so

00:49:28.840 I

00:49:29.360 started

00:49:29.700 to

00:49:29.860 change

00:49:30.040 my

00:49:30.200 mind

00:49:30.400 basically

00:49:32.300 when I

00:49:32.600 got to

00:49:33.100 City Hall

00:49:33.840 in 2008

00:49:34.860 when

00:49:36.340 and for

00:49:37.380 a long

00:49:37.600 period

00:49:37.780 most of

00:49:38.160 my time

00:49:38.760 at City

00:49:38.980 Hall

00:49:39.140 Piers

00:49:39.600 Corbyn

00:49:40.000 was

00:49:40.260 indeed

00:49:40.700 the

00:49:41.280 official

00:49:41.620 City Hall

00:49:42.240 meteorologist

00:49:43.300 given his

00:49:45.840 evolution

00:49:46.260 since that

00:49:46.880 is very

00:49:47.260 troubling

00:49:47.780 I know

00:49:48.940 he's not

00:49:49.840 sound on

00:49:50.300 other

00:49:50.500 issues

00:49:50.840 and I

00:49:53.420 now think

00:49:53.900 he's not

00:49:54.240 right

00:49:54.440 I now

00:49:54.800 think on

00:49:55.300 balance

00:49:55.560 he's not

00:49:55.880 right about

00:49:56.520 global

00:49:57.360 warming

00:49:57.660 and so

00:49:58.520 what

00:49:58.700 happened

00:49:58.900 was

00:49:59.140 you know

00:49:59.440 I

00:50:00.640 started

00:50:00.940 really

00:50:01.440 asking a

00:50:02.200 lot of

00:50:02.440 scientists

00:50:02.780 and

00:50:03.100 admittedly

00:50:06.180 there

00:50:06.340 is a

00:50:10.000 you know

00:50:11.020 as we've

00:50:11.260 seen in

00:50:11.500 lots of

00:50:11.980 big

00:50:12.740 scientific

00:50:13.460 questions

00:50:13.920 the

00:50:14.260 scientists

00:50:15.120 tend to

00:50:15.600 coalesce

00:50:16.220 around

00:50:16.560 what is

00:50:16.940 the

00:50:17.060 acceptable

00:50:17.560 position

00:50:18.780 very

00:50:19.240 often

00:50:19.580 but

00:50:21.580 here's

00:50:22.640 what I

00:50:22.840 thought

00:50:23.000 I thought

00:50:23.380 and what

00:50:25.280 really

00:50:25.540 changed

00:50:25.820 my

00:50:25.960 mind

00:50:26.220 there

00:50:26.980 wasn't

00:50:29.060 a single

00:50:29.460 Damascene

00:50:29.980 moment

00:50:30.380 it wasn't

00:50:30.900 looking at

00:50:31.300 a hockey

00:50:31.880 stick

00:50:32.140 graph

00:50:32.440 and thinking

00:50:32.780 my god

00:50:33.380 we're all

00:50:33.840 going to

00:50:34.000 fry

00:50:34.100 it was

00:50:34.780 basically

00:50:35.160 intuitive

00:50:35.660 it was

00:50:36.120 getting up

00:50:37.080 in a

00:50:37.300 plane

00:50:37.580 the whole

00:50:38.060 time

00:50:38.540 as I

00:50:39.980 did as

00:50:40.720 Mayor of

00:50:40.960 Lancaster

00:50:41.140 doing lots

00:50:41.780 of trade

00:50:42.140 trips

00:50:42.420 and then

00:50:43.240 later as

00:50:43.640 foreign

00:50:43.840 secretary

00:50:44.380 just

00:50:45.440 seeing

00:50:46.040 what

00:50:47.180 you know

00:50:47.620 when I

00:50:47.840 was born

00:50:48.360 there were

00:50:49.180 about 3

00:50:49.560 billion people

00:50:50.080 in the

00:50:50.300 world

00:50:50.500 there are

00:50:51.700 now

00:50:51.940 getting on

00:50:52.560 for 9

00:50:52.880 billion

00:50:53.180 it's

00:50:54.440 I mean

00:50:55.120 the change

00:50:55.900 is

00:50:56.420 unbelievable

00:50:57.500 and

00:50:59.020 you can

00:50:59.720 when you

00:51:00.280 fly over

00:51:01.100 Latin

00:51:03.300 America

00:51:03.760 when you

00:51:04.100 fly over

00:51:04.580 Africa

00:51:05.020 at night

00:51:05.920 and you

00:51:06.940 see the

00:51:07.400 fires

00:51:08.020 burning

00:51:08.860 all the

00:51:09.400 way up

00:51:09.680 fly from

00:51:10.400 the

00:51:10.560 Cape

00:51:10.880 to

00:51:11.760 Cairo

00:51:12.600 overnight

00:51:13.560 in Africa

00:51:14.920 try it

00:51:15.920 you look

00:51:16.840 down

00:51:17.260 you see

00:51:18.280 fire

00:51:18.820 after fire

00:51:19.540 after fire

00:51:20.060 the bush

00:51:21.240 the scrub

00:51:21.660 the jungle

00:51:22.020 burning

00:51:22.420 burning

00:51:22.720 burning

00:51:23.060 and humanity

00:51:25.120 encroaching

00:51:26.420 everywhere

00:51:26.860 and you

00:51:28.980 see the

00:51:29.700 destruction

00:51:30.820 that human

00:51:32.140 beings are

00:51:32.800 wreaking on

00:51:33.760 the planet

00:51:34.140 the spread

00:51:35.120 of cities

00:51:36.040 and

00:51:37.420 I sort

00:51:38.080 of

00:51:38.160 you look

00:51:39.960 down

00:51:40.140 and see

00:51:40.460 the huge

00:51:41.480 huge numbers

00:51:42.020 of people

00:51:43.440 and intuitively

00:51:44.760 I sort of

00:51:45.100 think well

00:51:45.340 look

00:51:45.520 we're clearly

00:51:46.900 having a

00:51:47.360 colossal

00:51:47.800 environmental

00:51:48.280 impact

00:51:48.860 you know

00:51:49.640 whichever way

00:51:50.040 you cut

00:51:50.440 it

00:51:50.660 nature

00:51:51.620 is being

00:51:52.220 interfered

00:51:52.840 with

00:51:53.140 on a

00:51:53.940 massive

00:51:54.240 scale

00:51:54.720 maybe these

00:51:56.000 guys are

00:51:56.360 right

00:51:56.540 when they

00:51:56.840 talk about

00:51:57.500 the atmosphere

00:51:57.940 and

00:51:59.360 I thought

00:52:00.440 well look

00:52:00.840 you remember

00:52:01.880 Pascal's

00:52:02.480 wager

00:52:02.840 about the

00:52:03.920 existence

00:52:04.160 of God

00:52:04.460 you should

00:52:04.720 believe in

00:52:05.120 God

00:52:05.240 just in

00:52:05.620 case

00:52:05.800 he's

00:52:06.000 real

00:52:06.220 I thought

00:52:07.700 what's

00:52:08.440 the

00:52:08.580 downside

00:52:09.000 if we're

00:52:10.400 wrong

00:52:10.760 perfect

00:52:11.140 I thought

00:52:14.980 what's

00:52:15.220 the downside

00:52:15.580 if we're

00:52:15.920 wrong

00:52:16.060 and say

00:52:16.820 I know

00:52:17.400 what you're

00:52:17.580 going to

00:52:17.700 say

00:52:17.900 the downside

00:52:18.440 is

00:52:18.760 we

00:52:19.180 impoverish

00:52:19.640 people

00:52:19.920 because

00:52:20.180 we

00:52:20.360 invest

00:52:21.100 in

00:52:21.220 lots

00:52:21.400 of 1.00

00:52:21.560 crap 1.00

00:52:21.780 technologies 0.99

00:52:22.240 and

00:52:22.620 we force

00:52:23.260 them

00:52:23.400 to buy

00:52:23.640 electric

00:52:23.920 cars

00:52:24.220 which

00:52:24.340 don't

00:52:24.520 work

00:52:24.680 can I

00:52:27.860 just make

00:52:28.380 the point

00:52:28.720 that's not

00:52:30.260 the only

00:52:30.560 side

00:52:30.780 that is

00:52:31.100 one side

00:52:31.740 of it

00:52:32.040 the other

00:52:32.600 side is

00:52:33.240 we are

00:52:33.820 facing an

00:52:34.380 ever more

00:52:34.840 unstable

00:52:35.400 world

00:52:35.900 where

00:52:36.480 geopolitically

00:52:37.500 things have

00:52:38.360 become

00:52:38.700 the conflicts

00:52:39.480 are springing up

00:52:40.180 left right

00:52:40.600 and centre

00:52:41.140 can we

00:52:41.860 really afford

00:52:42.520 to de-industrialise

00:52:43.660 can we

00:52:43.940 really afford

00:52:44.460 to shut down

00:52:45.200 steel power

00:52:46.120 plants

00:52:46.620 when we

00:52:47.440 really need

00:52:48.520 to become

00:52:49.340 stronger

00:52:50.160 and more

00:52:51.340 powerful

00:52:51.880 in order

00:52:52.840 to face

00:52:53.600 an ever

00:52:54.060 more

00:52:54.340 energy

00:52:54.380 prices

00:52:54.740 are four

00:52:55.200 times what

00:52:55.680 they are

00:52:55.920 in the

00:52:56.100 US

00:52:56.280 I know

00:52:57.080 and they're 0.99

00:52:57.380 crazy 0.99

00:52:57.700 so that's 0.72

00:52:58.440 the trade-offs

00:52:59.080 of this

00:52:59.840 thing that

00:53:00.340 you say

00:53:00.760 is Pascal's

00:53:01.360 wager

00:53:01.640 well

00:53:02.540 yes

00:53:03.580 but

00:53:03.840 and it

00:53:04.300 costs

00:53:04.600 in this

00:53:05.100 country

00:53:05.420 what

00:53:05.660 50 billion

00:53:06.220 all I'm

00:53:06.420 asking you

00:53:06.840 to believe

00:53:07.420 in is

00:53:07.800 ultimately

00:53:08.460 all I'm

00:53:10.320 asking

00:53:10.620 all I was

00:53:11.940 asking myself

00:53:12.400 to believe

00:53:12.720 was that

00:53:13.900 ultimately

00:53:14.460 to bet

00:53:15.940 on

00:53:16.520 a cleaner

00:53:17.660 world

00:53:19.300 and a

00:53:20.040 cleaner

00:53:20.360 technology

00:53:21.420 was

00:53:21.780 long-term

00:53:22.860 the right

00:53:23.140 thing to

00:53:23.420 do

00:53:23.740 and where

00:53:24.380 I agree

00:53:25.620 with you

00:53:26.260 is that

00:53:27.620 we

00:53:28.720 rushed

00:53:29.940 our fences

00:53:30.460 and you

00:53:31.960 know you

00:53:32.120 look at

00:53:32.400 the

00:53:32.660 UK energy

00:53:35.000 policy

00:53:35.500 is

00:53:36.240 frankly

00:53:37.600 you know

00:53:39.000 it's

00:53:39.900 disastrous

00:53:40.420 how expensive

00:53:40.960 our energy

00:53:41.400 is

00:53:41.680 and

00:53:42.240 we totally

00:53:43.740 failed to

00:53:44.360 invest enough

00:53:45.020 in

00:53:45.380 nuclear

00:53:46.760 I mean

00:53:48.100 Labour was in

00:53:48.720 for 13

00:53:49.820 years

00:53:50.280 didn't

00:53:50.600 build a

00:53:51.420 single

00:53:51.800 nuclear

00:53:53.220 power plant

00:53:53.660 or even

00:53:54.600 start plans

00:53:55.340 for a

00:53:55.560 single

00:53:55.720 I don't

00:53:56.140 think

00:53:56.500 single

00:53:57.140 nuclear

00:53:57.420 power plant

00:53:58.000 the Tories

00:53:59.520 came in

00:54:00.120 and you

00:54:00.480 know

00:54:00.600 at least

00:54:01.220 started

00:54:01.580 things like

00:54:02.100 Hinckley

00:54:02.400 admittedly

00:54:02.860 at vast

00:54:03.240 expense

00:54:03.660 when I

00:54:04.980 was running

00:54:05.880 we set

00:54:06.200 up

00:54:06.400 Great

00:54:06.660 British

00:54:06.840 Nuclear

00:54:07.160 which

00:54:08.020 had a

00:54:08.300 plan

00:54:08.540 to

00:54:08.820 build

00:54:09.400 you know

00:54:09.680 really

00:54:09.840 quite a

00:54:10.140 lot

00:54:10.260 of

00:54:10.360 nuclear

00:54:10.620 power

00:54:10.940 I think

00:54:11.440 nuclear

00:54:11.680 power

00:54:11.880 has

00:54:12.020 got

00:54:12.160 to be

00:54:12.340 part

00:54:12.460 but

00:54:12.640 nuclear

00:54:13.020 power

00:54:13.260 is

00:54:13.400 not

00:54:13.640 as

00:54:14.520 everybody

00:54:14.760 knows

00:54:15.060 the sole

00:54:18.420 answer

00:54:18.800 for the

00:54:21.160 time being

00:54:21.740 you've

00:54:22.720 got to

00:54:22.940 have

00:54:23.080 more

00:54:23.260 hydrocarbons

00:54:23.920 and I

00:54:24.840 perfectly

00:54:25.280 accept

00:54:25.620 that

00:54:25.920 but that

00:54:26.480 doesn't

00:54:26.800 mean

00:54:27.200 you

00:54:27.580 shouldn't

00:54:28.060 care about

00:54:30.360 the environment

00:54:30.780 no one's

00:54:31.400 saying

00:54:31.600 then I

00:54:33.080 think

00:54:33.220 we're

00:54:33.400 in

00:54:33.920 hideous

00:54:34.220 risk

00:54:34.460 of

00:54:34.600 agreement

00:54:34.920 so all

00:54:36.560 I'm

00:54:37.320 saying

00:54:37.620 is

00:54:38.600 you know

00:54:39.580 it's like

00:54:39.980 St.

00:54:40.340 Augustine

00:54:40.900 make me

00:54:42.040 pure

00:54:42.240 but not

00:54:43.000 yet

00:54:43.300 right

00:54:43.620 well

00:54:43.920 we're

00:54:44.320 in

00:54:44.460 risk

00:54:44.680 of

00:54:44.800 agreement

00:54:45.080 on

00:54:45.260 the

00:54:45.400 rhetoric

00:54:45.780 but

00:54:46.340 I

00:54:46.780 don't

00:54:47.260 think

00:54:48.160 that

00:54:48.380 your

00:54:48.700 time

00:54:49.000 in

00:54:49.160 government

00:54:49.500 reflects

00:54:50.420 the

00:54:50.740 things

00:54:50.980 that

00:54:51.140 you're

00:54:51.320 saying

00:54:51.580 to

00:54:51.760 us

00:54:51.920 today

00:54:52.320 well

00:54:53.440 I

00:54:53.560 think

00:54:53.700 we

00:54:54.300 did

00:54:55.000 a

00:54:55.200 massive

00:54:55.600 the

00:54:55.900 energy

00:54:56.560 prices

00:54:56.920 we

00:54:57.140 have

00:54:57.360 now

00:54:57.640 are

00:54:57.800 partly

00:54:58.100 because

00:54:58.480 when

00:54:58.740 you

00:54:58.860 were

00:54:59.020 in

00:54:59.120 power

00:54:59.380 you

00:54:59.600 either

00:55:00.160 didn't

00:55:00.480 do

00:55:00.620 anything

00:55:00.880 about

00:55:01.160 it

00:55:01.280 or

00:55:01.420 made

00:55:01.640 that

00:55:01.780 more

00:55:01.960 difficult

00:55:02.320 right

00:55:02.660 no

00:55:03.060 we

00:55:03.260 did

00:55:03.400 huge

00:55:04.120 investments

00:55:04.560 in

00:55:05.180 nuclear

00:55:06.620 so why

00:55:06.960 hasn't

00:55:07.180 energy

00:55:07.440 become

00:55:07.720 cheaper

00:55:08.100 because

00:55:08.860 we've

00:55:09.420 had

00:55:09.580 a

00:55:09.880 massive

00:55:10.260 spike 0.93

00:55:10.640 in

00:55:10.800 the

00:55:10.900 oil

00:55:11.040 price

00:55:11.280 largely

00:55:11.560 driven

00:55:11.820 by

00:55:12.140 Ukraine

00:55:12.960 and

00:55:13.140 we

00:55:13.260 haven't

00:55:13.580 done

00:55:13.760 enough

00:55:13.980 so why

00:55:14.660 don't

00:55:14.800 we

00:55:14.900 produce

00:55:15.200 our

00:55:15.360 oil

00:55:15.700 instead

00:55:16.000 of

00:55:16.160 shutting

00:55:16.360 down

00:55:16.620 we

00:55:16.800 should

00:55:17.020 do

00:55:17.240 we

00:55:17.580 should

00:55:17.760 be

00:55:18.380 using

00:55:18.680 our

00:55:19.560 own

00:55:19.700 hydrocarbons

00:55:20.240 I

00:55:20.380 agree

00:55:20.600 and I

00:55:21.480 actually

00:55:22.300 said

00:55:22.580 that

00:55:22.880 I

00:55:23.120 think

00:55:23.340 several

00:55:23.960 times

00:55:24.280 in

00:55:24.500 the

00:55:25.140 House

00:55:25.280 of

00:55:25.360 Commons 0.69

00:55:25.460 but if

00:55:25.680 you

00:55:26.040 remember

00:55:26.760 sadly

00:55:28.000 in

00:55:29.800 July

00:55:30.300 2022

00:55:30.940 I

00:55:31.380 was

00:55:31.600 no

00:55:32.720 longer

00:55:32.980 able

00:55:33.220 to

00:55:33.920 fulfill

00:55:34.440 my

00:55:34.660 mission

00:55:35.020 yes

00:55:35.600 we'll

00:55:37.360 talk about

00:55:37.780 that

00:55:37.940 in a

00:55:38.180 second

00:55:38.320 so I

00:55:38.580 think

00:55:39.040 I

00:55:43.600 think

00:55:43.780 most

00:55:44.060 people

00:55:44.380 in

00:55:44.560 this

00:55:44.720 country

00:55:45.120 kind

00:55:45.980 of

00:55:46.080 get

00:55:46.280 it

00:55:46.580 and

00:55:47.400 I

00:55:48.220 think

00:55:48.340 most

00:55:48.480 people

00:55:48.640 instinctively

00:55:50.160 don't

00:55:50.380 like

00:55:50.540 pollution

00:55:50.940 they

00:55:51.760 don't

00:55:51.920 like 0.97

00:55:52.580 screwing

00:55:53.540 up

00:55:53.660 the

00:55:53.740 environment

00:55:54.060 they

00:55:55.900 think

00:55:56.900 that

00:55:57.060 global

00:55:57.280 warming

00:55:57.600 probably

00:55:58.140 is

00:55:58.480 something

00:55:58.760 in

00:55:58.980 it

00:55:59.140 and

00:56:00.160 on

00:56:00.540 the

00:56:00.680 whole

00:56:01.000 if

00:56:01.360 they

00:56:01.520 can

00:56:01.840 get

00:56:02.220 access

00:56:03.020 to

00:56:03.280 clean

00:56:03.540 green

00:56:03.880 technology

00:56:04.480 then

00:56:05.400 they're

00:56:05.560 going

00:56:05.620 to

00:56:05.720 want

00:56:05.820 to

00:56:05.900 go

00:56:06.000 down

00:56:06.180 that

00:56:06.340 route

00:56:06.640 so

00:56:07.100 the

00:56:08.500 question

00:56:08.700 is

00:56:08.840 how

00:56:09.020 can

00:56:09.200 you

00:56:09.320 do

00:56:09.500 that

00:56:09.860 in

00:56:10.080 a

00:56:10.180 way

00:56:10.340 that

00:56:10.620 forgive

00:56:11.500 me

00:56:11.800 we're

00:56:13.440 not

00:56:13.560 even

00:56:13.720 remotely

00:56:14.180 at

00:56:14.420 risk

00:56:14.660 of

00:56:14.840 disgusting 0.85

00:56:15.280 agreement 0.62

00:56:15.780 because

00:56:16.220 I

00:56:16.600 don't

00:56:16.740 agree

00:56:16.960 with

00:56:17.120 you

00:56:17.240 about

00:56:17.460 most

00:56:17.740 people

00:56:18.000 getting

00:56:18.320 it

00:56:18.480 most

00:56:18.780 people

00:56:19.100 if

00:56:19.320 you

00:56:19.440 ask

00:56:19.680 them

00:56:19.840 what

00:56:20.040 is

00:56:20.180 the

00:56:20.360 downside

00:56:20.840 of

00:56:21.080 net

00:56:21.280 zero

00:56:21.580 and

00:56:22.460 how

00:56:22.640 much

00:56:22.860 is

00:56:22.980 it

00:56:23.080 going

00:56:23.200 to

00:56:23.300 cost

00:56:23.540 they

00:56:23.760 would

00:56:23.940 say

00:56:24.220 oh

00:56:24.520 I

00:56:24.720 didn't

00:56:24.880 know

00:56:25.020 there

00:56:25.160 was

00:56:25.260 a

00:56:25.360 cost

00:56:25.680 that's

00:56:26.280 the

00:56:26.400 level

00:56:26.600 of

00:56:26.780 brainwashing

00:56:27.300 we've

00:56:27.520 had

00:56:27.700 on

00:56:27.820 this

00:56:28.000 issue

00:56:28.240 no

00:56:28.460 one

00:56:28.640 talks

00:56:29.500 about

00:56:29.780 the

00:56:29.960 fact

00:56:30.220 that

00:56:30.660 this

00:56:31.160 policy

00:56:31.620 has

00:56:31.840 gigantic

00:56:32.480 trade-offs

00:56:33.120 for our

00:56:33.540 economy

00:56:33.960 for our

00:56:34.580 ability

00:56:34.860 to defend

00:56:35.380 our

00:56:35.580 country

00:56:35.880 for our

00:56:36.440 ability

00:56:36.720 to do

00:56:37.100 things

00:56:37.340 like

00:56:37.540 defending

00:56:37.940 Ukraine

00:56:38.280 we're

00:56:39.060 basically

00:56:39.420 losing

00:56:39.740 the ability

00:56:40.180 to make

00:56:40.600 military

00:56:41.020 great

00:56:41.320 steel

00:56:41.640 in this

00:56:41.940 country

00:56:42.280 and that's

00:56:44.600 because of

00:56:45.000 net

00:56:45.140 zero

00:56:45.420 I think

00:56:46.520 all that's

00:56:46.880 crazy

00:56:47.520 and by 0.97

00:56:48.280 the way

00:56:48.520 we should

00:56:48.820 be

00:56:50.080 putting in

00:56:52.060 special

00:56:52.520 arrangements

00:56:53.100 for places

00:56:53.880 like

00:56:54.140 Paul

00:56:54.380 Talbot

00:56:54.720 and all

00:56:55.040 these

00:56:55.200 other

00:56:55.420 crucial

00:56:56.920 critical

00:56:57.900 strategic

00:56:58.760 steel

00:56:59.040 making

00:56:59.340 plants

00:56:59.660 they should

00:57:00.000 have

00:57:00.160 their

00:57:00.320 own

00:57:01.020 power

00:57:01.460 generating

00:57:01.860 capabilities

00:57:02.740 and I

00:57:03.040 don't

00:57:03.120 know

00:57:03.240 why

00:57:03.460 we should

00:57:05.620 definitely

00:57:06.820 do it

00:57:07.020 one other

00:57:07.360 topic

00:57:07.680 before we

00:57:08.240 go to

00:57:08.640 our

00:57:08.940 supporters

00:57:09.540 thanks to

00:57:11.460 today's

00:57:12.060 sponsor

00:57:12.560 Venice

00:57:13.240 have you

00:57:14.160 ever

00:57:14.380 wondered

00:57:14.720 what

00:57:14.960 chat

00:57:15.320 GPT

00:57:16.080 and

00:57:16.300 Claude

00:57:16.580 are doing

00:57:16.940 with

00:57:17.140 your

00:57:17.440 conversations

00:57:18.120 we already

00:57:19.300 know that

00:57:19.780 Alexa

00:57:20.200 listens in

00:57:20.940 and suggests

00:57:21.620 products

00:57:22.140 based on

00:57:22.980 what we

00:57:23.400 say

00:57:23.760 and

00:57:24.420 meta

00:57:24.820 retargets 1.00

00:57:25.900 us

00:57:26.240 based on

00:57:26.880 everything

00:57:27.440 we click

00:57:28.140 on

00:57:28.380 but think

00:57:28.980 about what

00:57:29.460 we share

00:57:30.000 with AI

00:57:30.580 our ideas

00:57:31.680 business

00:57:32.180 strategies

00:57:32.740 personal

00:57:33.260 thoughts

00:57:33.740 sensitive

00:57:34.440 questions

00:57:34.980 and so

00:57:35.380 on

00:57:35.560 and here's

00:57:36.360 the kicker

00:57:36.840 this data

00:57:37.580 isn't just

00:57:38.180 stored

00:57:38.620 it's tied

00:57:39.920 to your

00:57:40.460 identity

00:57:40.960 and passed

00:57:41.580 along to

00:57:42.020 third parties

00:57:42.700 sometimes

00:57:43.440 even governments

00:57:44.380 you might have

00:57:45.180 seen in the

00:57:45.600 news that

00:57:46.080 DeepSeek

00:57:46.780 that AI

00:57:47.640 app

00:57:47.940 everyone's

00:57:48.560 downloading

00:57:48.980 is actually

00:57:50.120 sending

00:57:50.640 unencrypted

00:57:51.540 data

00:57:52.100 straight to

00:57:53.040 Chinese

00:57:53.440 servers

00:57:53.940 and here's

00:57:54.760 the thing

00:57:55.180 it's not

00:57:56.140 just Chinese

00:57:56.940 companies

00:57:57.400 we need

00:57:57.880 to worry

00:57:58.320 about

00:57:58.740 chat

00:57:59.200 GPT

00:57:59.800 has close

00:58:00.300 ties to

00:58:00.740 government

00:58:01.040 agencies

00:58:01.600 and big

00:58:02.480 tech

00:58:02.820 firms

00:58:03.220 raising

00:58:03.840 important

00:58:04.400 questions

00:58:04.880 about how

00:58:05.540 our data

00:58:06.160 is handled

00:58:06.860 if you

00:58:07.480 follow

00:58:07.920 trigonometry

00:58:08.580 for long

00:58:09.140 enough

00:58:09.460 you'll know

00:58:10.340 issues like

00:58:11.100 this are

00:58:11.860 close to

00:58:12.380 our hearts

00:58:12.920 that's why

00:58:14.040 we started

00:58:14.760 using

00:58:15.360 Venice AI

00:58:16.360 today's

00:58:17.560 sponsor

00:58:18.020 Venice AI

00:58:18.940 is a

00:58:19.480 generative AI

00:58:20.240 platform that

00:58:21.000 is private

00:58:21.540 and permissionless

00:58:22.560 it doesn't

00:58:23.340 track you

00:58:23.820 doesn't sell

00:58:24.520 your data

00:58:25.000 and certainly

00:58:25.740 doesn't censor

00:58:26.440 your requests

00:58:27.140 unlike other

00:58:28.280 AI platforms

00:58:29.200 Venice encrypts

00:58:30.480 your messages

00:58:30.920 and stores them

00:58:31.760 only in your

00:58:32.700 browser

00:58:33.100 not on their

00:58:34.180 servers

00:58:34.560 no downloads

00:58:35.740 no installations

00:58:36.880 just secure

00:58:37.920 AI

00:58:38.260 straight from

00:58:39.100 your web

00:58:39.400 browser

00:58:39.740 we use

00:58:40.620 their

00:58:40.860 pro plan

00:58:41.660 which comes

00:58:42.520 with some

00:58:43.000 serious

00:58:43.840 perks

00:58:44.500 safe mode

00:58:45.480 off for

00:58:46.000 unhindered

00:58:46.760 image generation

00:58:48.020 upload

00:58:48.800 PDFs for

00:58:49.780 summaries

00:58:50.280 or insights

00:58:51.020 modify the

00:58:52.100 system to

00:58:52.720 change how

00:58:53.260 it interacts

00:58:53.940 with you

00:58:54.500 if you want

00:58:55.280 to use AI

00:58:55.880 with privacy

00:58:56.600 freedom

00:58:57.040 and without

00:58:57.600 censorship

00:58:58.100 then right

00:58:58.940 now you

00:58:59.560 can get

00:58:59.900 20%

00:59:00.860 off a

00:59:01.340 pro plan

00:59:01.840 by clicking

00:59:02.380 the link

00:59:02.840 in the

00:59:03.340 description

00:59:03.700 of this

00:59:04.060 episode

00:59:04.420 and using

00:59:05.300 our code

00:59:06.020 trigonometry

00:59:06.920 that link

00:59:07.780 is venice.ai

00:59:09.700 slash trigonometry

00:59:10.980 and now

00:59:11.820 back to the

00:59:12.560 show

00:59:12.760 the one thing

00:59:14.640 that many

00:59:16.200 people feel

00:59:17.020 was a big

00:59:18.300 failure of

00:59:19.120 and this

00:59:19.560 isn't just

00:59:20.100 you when you

00:59:20.740 were in

00:59:20.980 power

00:59:21.200 it's the

00:59:21.580 entire

00:59:21.840 conservative

00:59:22.300 government

00:59:22.760 you pursued

00:59:25.020 Brexit

00:59:25.400 you won

00:59:26.340 Brexit

00:59:26.740 effectively

00:59:27.260 and

00:59:27.720 ultimately

00:59:29.500 you won

00:59:30.040 the 2019

00:59:30.600 election

00:59:31.120 on the

00:59:31.480 promise

00:59:31.860 to get

00:59:32.740 Brexit

00:59:33.060 done

00:59:33.400 Brexit

00:59:34.480 I know

00:59:35.600 it's more

00:59:35.880 complicated

00:59:36.380 and this

00:59:36.720 is a

00:59:37.320 reductive

00:59:38.020 argument

00:59:38.380 slightly

00:59:38.940 but Brexit

00:59:39.720 was basically

00:59:40.340 a referendum

00:59:40.880 on immigration

00:59:41.540 for a lot

00:59:42.580 of people

00:59:43.120 right

00:59:43.360 and

00:59:44.540 like I said

00:59:46.860 it's a

00:59:47.260 slightly reduced

00:59:48.620 argument

00:59:49.000 from the

00:59:49.340 complexity

00:59:49.780 of it

00:59:50.240 but it

00:59:51.140 was

00:59:51.480 to many

00:59:52.020 many

00:59:52.240 people

00:59:52.580 an opportunity

00:59:53.280 to express

00:59:54.040 how they

00:59:54.480 felt

00:59:54.760 about

00:59:55.140 mass

00:59:55.440 immigration

00:59:55.940 which

00:59:56.700 under

00:59:57.060 the

00:59:57.280 Labour

00:59:57.520 government

00:59:57.960 the Blair

00:59:58.500 government

00:59:58.880 more people

00:59:59.380 came into

00:59:59.820 this

01:00:00.020 country

01:00:00.280 under

01:00:00.480 that

01:00:00.700 government

01:00:01.040 than

01:00:01.580 had

01:00:01.740 come into

01:00:02.340 this

01:00:02.560 country

01:00:02.780 between

01:00:03.060 1066

01:00:03.780 and

01:00:04.520 1950

01:00:05.120 okay

01:00:05.820 pretty

01:00:06.360 unprecedented

01:00:06.980 or

01:00:07.680 extremely

01:00:08.600 unprecedented

01:00:09.460 unprecedented

01:00:10.300 and they

01:00:11.840 expressed

01:00:12.440 their views

01:00:12.940 in the

01:00:13.180 Brexit

01:00:13.420 referendum

01:00:13.920 and with

01:00:15.220 the hope

01:00:15.640 that both

01:00:16.320 mass

01:00:16.780 immigration

01:00:17.260 and illegal

01:00:18.460 immigration

01:00:18.920 in particular

01:00:19.480 which is

01:00:19.860 an irritant

01:00:20.340 to people

01:00:20.720 all over

01:00:21.120 the political

01:00:21.580 spectrum

01:00:21.980 what they

01:00:22.320 wanted

01:00:22.640 was to

01:00:23.080 take

01:00:23.440 back

01:00:24.060 control

01:00:24.840 in order

01:00:25.200 to do

01:00:25.560 what

01:00:25.860 to take

01:00:26.440 in order

01:00:26.860 to do

01:00:27.160 what

01:00:27.320 to take

01:00:27.720 in order

01:00:28.080 to leave

01:00:28.740 things

01:00:28.980 the same

01:00:29.540 will

01:00:29.680 make

01:00:29.780 them

01:00:29.980 worse

01:00:30.200 so that

01:00:31.080 the

01:00:31.600 politicians

01:00:32.800 could rightly

01:00:33.640 be held

01:00:34.080 to account

01:00:34.720 for the

01:00:35.480 numbers

01:00:35.740 of people

01:00:36.180 coming in

01:00:36.980 okay

01:00:37.180 so I'm

01:00:37.800 holding you

01:00:38.160 to account

01:00:38.500 right now

01:00:38.900 so let me

01:00:41.260 do it

01:00:41.520 we had

01:00:43.120 the Brexit

01:00:43.600 referendum

01:00:44.000 you came in

01:00:44.540 in 2019

01:00:45.160 and under

01:00:46.040 your government

01:00:46.620 we had what

01:00:47.240 is now being

01:00:47.780 described as

01:00:48.400 the Boris

01:00:48.880 wave

01:00:49.340 in which

01:00:50.260 we had

01:00:50.780 as many

01:00:51.300 if not

01:00:51.740 more people

01:00:52.280 come into

01:00:52.700 this country

01:00:53.240 in a similar

01:00:54.260 period of time

01:00:54.760 that's

01:00:55.280 actually

01:00:55.660 if you

01:00:56.320 look at

01:00:56.600 what actually

01:00:58.780 happened

01:00:59.200 the numbers

01:01:00.200 go down

01:01:00.980 we have

01:01:01.440 a huge

01:01:02.380 number of

01:01:02.540 people leave

01:01:03.040 the country

01:01:03.360 because of

01:01:03.640 COVID

01:01:03.920 so the whole

01:01:06.460 thing is

01:01:06.720 complete

01:01:07.120 bollocks 0.85

01:01:07.660 you then

01:01:08.600 have a lot

01:01:09.280 of students

01:01:09.880 coming back

01:01:10.500 to complete

01:01:10.980 their courses

01:01:11.640 who push

01:01:13.720 up the numbers

01:01:14.280 in that so

01:01:15.120 called way

01:01:15.680 you have

01:01:16.800 of course

01:01:17.660 because we're

01:01:18.620 talking about

01:01:19.160 2022

01:01:20.360 we have

01:01:22.820 a large

01:01:23.320 number of

01:01:23.700 Ukrainians

01:01:24.180 coming in

01:01:24.740 you have

01:01:25.540 Afghans 1.00

01:01:26.220 coming in

01:01:27.260 to whom

01:01:27.580 we owed

01:01:28.340 duty

01:01:29.140 you also

01:01:29.660 have

01:01:30.060 Hong Kongers

01:01:30.980 you also

01:01:31.320 have Hong Kongers

01:01:31.980 what also

01:01:32.840 happened

01:01:33.300 and this

01:01:33.740 was not

01:01:34.180 you know

01:01:35.740 government

01:01:36.440 policy

01:01:37.000 but it

01:01:37.380 was something

01:01:37.840 that was

01:01:38.780 driven by

01:01:39.220 the Migration

01:01:39.740 Advisory

01:01:40.600 Committee

01:01:41.060 you had a

01:01:42.460 panic

01:01:42.800 if you

01:01:43.120 remember

01:01:43.380 post-COVID

01:01:44.180 when nobody

01:01:45.820 could get

01:01:46.560 the shelf

01:01:47.040 do you remember

01:01:47.460 this

01:01:47.740 there was a

01:01:48.240 thing

01:01:48.380 nobody could

01:01:48.940 get the

01:01:49.180 shelves

01:01:49.440 stacked

01:01:49.920 do you

01:01:50.440 remember

01:01:50.600 leading up

01:01:51.760 to the

01:01:52.760 period

01:01:53.000 when nobody

01:01:53.480 was

01:01:53.680 confident

01:01:54.600 the crops

01:01:55.720 were going

01:01:55.920 to be

01:01:56.080 picked

01:01:56.320 in the

01:01:56.800 fields

01:01:57.480 and

01:01:58.660 do you

01:01:59.340 remember

01:01:59.460 when the

01:01:59.920 petrol

01:02:00.380 stations

01:02:00.740 couldn't

01:02:01.020 get fuel

01:02:02.480 because there

01:02:03.620 was a shortage

01:02:04.040 of lorry

01:02:04.400 drivers

01:02:04.660 and all that

01:02:04.960 what happened

01:02:06.480 was that

01:02:07.000 the Migration

01:02:08.960 Advisory

01:02:09.400 Committee

01:02:09.680 and we

01:02:10.260 were very

01:02:11.440 worried about

01:02:12.000 social care

01:02:13.200 workers

01:02:14.340 or the

01:02:15.200 officials

01:02:16.600 were

01:02:16.980 and so

01:02:18.020 yes

01:02:18.300 I think

01:02:18.560 they probably

01:02:19.020 did hand

01:02:19.600 out too

01:02:20.220 many

01:02:20.540 visas

01:02:21.400 too many

01:02:22.680 permits

01:02:23.080 for people

01:02:23.500 plus

01:02:23.860 their

01:02:24.440 dependents

01:02:25.520 to come

01:02:26.260 in under

01:02:26.600 those

01:02:26.860 various

01:02:27.320 schemes

01:02:27.920 but there

01:02:28.960 were exceptional

01:02:30.080 circumstances

01:02:30.960 caused by

01:02:32.260 COVID

01:02:33.140 and they

01:02:34.240 were

01:02:34.420 immediately

01:02:35.320 remediable

01:02:36.620 because we

01:02:38.200 had taken

01:02:40.020 back

01:02:40.400 control

01:02:41.020 hold on

01:02:41.840 I'm not

01:02:44.000 going to let

01:02:44.380 you get

01:02:44.600 away with

01:02:44.920 this

01:02:45.060 I refuse

01:02:48.180 there's a

01:02:49.800 different

01:02:50.020 point

01:02:50.280 you say

01:02:51.240 people wanted

01:02:52.660 to take

01:02:53.120 back

01:02:53.360 control

01:02:53.800 and now

01:02:54.940 even to

01:02:55.720 this day

01:02:56.240 we have

01:02:56.720 tens of

01:02:57.200 thousands

01:02:57.540 of people

01:02:58.000 coming to

01:02:58.460 this country

01:02:58.880 illegally

01:02:59.440 on small

01:02:59.980 boats

01:03:00.160 how is that

01:03:01.640 taking back

01:03:02.100 control

01:03:02.440 where's the

01:03:03.800 control

01:03:04.180 what you've

01:03:06.560 conceded

01:03:06.960 which is the

01:03:07.300 most important

01:03:07.720 point

01:03:08.020 is that we

01:03:08.840 have legal

01:03:09.340 control

01:03:10.000 over the

01:03:11.640 people who

01:03:12.480 seek to

01:03:12.980 apply to

01:03:13.340 Kenya

01:03:13.500 now I

01:03:14.140 accept

01:03:14.780 that there

01:03:15.520 were exceptional

01:03:16.020 circumstances

01:03:16.520 after COVID

01:03:17.000 which led

01:03:17.680 to what

01:03:18.420 looked like

01:03:18.860 some big

01:03:19.180 numbers

01:03:19.440 but as I

01:03:20.100 say there

01:03:20.360 were exceptional

01:03:21.180 reasons for that

01:03:21.640 now because

01:03:24.080 we control

01:03:25.140 the numbers

01:03:26.920 coming in

01:03:28.200 legally

01:03:28.600 we can

01:03:30.120 offset for

01:03:30.640 that and

01:03:31.000 so we

01:03:31.300 can get

01:03:32.440 them right

01:03:32.840 right down

01:03:33.240 do whatever

01:03:33.520 we want

01:03:33.760 have zero

01:03:34.220 right

01:03:35.060 actually under

01:03:36.120 Keir Starmer

01:03:36.860 thanks to his

01:03:37.640 brilliant policy

01:03:38.980 of persecuting

01:03:39.640 anybody

01:03:39.920 who's got

01:03:40.260 an ounce of

01:03:40.700 creativity

01:03:41.100 in this

01:03:41.460 country

01:03:41.760 people are

01:03:42.740 fleeing

01:03:43.160 Britain

01:03:43.780 for the

01:03:44.040 first time

01:03:44.420 since the

01:03:44.700 1970s

01:03:45.520 and it's

01:03:46.240 a miracle

01:03:46.520 both of you

01:03:47.140 are still

01:03:47.360 here

01:03:47.620 frankly

01:03:48.300 given your

01:03:48.700 talent

01:03:49.500 and enterprise

01:03:50.620 he's very

01:03:51.680 good

01:03:52.020 so we have

01:03:55.160 formal control

01:03:56.200 which is the

01:03:56.600 most important

01:03:56.980 and don't forget

01:03:57.840 what Starmer

01:03:58.640 wants

01:03:59.120 and he would

01:04:00.360 do if he

01:04:00.980 could

01:04:01.200 no one here

01:04:02.580 is a fan

01:04:02.940 of Keir

01:04:03.200 Starmer

01:04:03.400 but I think

01:04:04.460 people

01:04:04.680 there may be

01:04:05.320 some fans

01:04:06.100 of Keir

01:04:06.340 Starmer

01:04:06.500 watching this

01:04:06.980 and they

01:04:07.160 should know

01:04:07.480 this

01:04:07.660 why are

01:04:12.020 there tens

01:04:12.400 of thousands

01:04:12.820 of people

01:04:13.240 coming into

01:04:13.720 this country

01:04:14.120 on small

01:04:14.480 boats

01:04:14.740 so first

01:04:15.920 of all

01:04:16.120 Starmer

01:04:16.380 would go

01:04:17.440 back to

01:04:17.720 free movement

01:04:18.220 so 520

01:04:19.160 million people

01:04:19.580 where's the

01:04:19.880 control

01:04:20.280 where's the

01:04:21.180 control

01:04:21.780 the plan

01:04:23.360 I hugely

01:04:24.780 admire

01:04:25.200 what

01:04:25.560 Rishi Sunak

01:04:26.320 just said

01:04:26.680 stop the

01:04:27.060 boats

01:04:27.260 was the

01:04:27.520 wrong

01:04:27.680 slogan

01:04:28.080 we went

01:04:28.460 too far

01:04:28.860 we should

01:04:29.600 have

01:04:30.040 no

01:04:30.460 the problem

01:04:31.800 was

01:04:32.280 they didn't

01:04:35.400 do what

01:04:35.740 I told

01:04:36.200 them to

01:04:36.460 do

01:04:36.860 the problem

01:04:37.800 was

01:04:38.160 seriously

01:04:38.780 that we

01:04:39.500 should have

01:04:39.820 continued

01:04:40.160 with the

01:04:40.480 Rwanda

01:04:40.760 policy

01:04:41.220 which actually

01:04:42.200 was the

01:04:42.500 only

01:04:42.740 policy

01:04:43.140 that

01:04:43.440 made

01:04:43.940 and we

01:04:44.380 should

01:04:44.500 not only

01:04:44.820 continue

01:04:45.140 with it

01:04:45.380 we should

01:04:45.620 have

01:04:45.720 developed

01:04:46.000 and expanded

01:04:46.560 it

01:04:46.740 we should

01:04:47.140 find lots

01:04:47.660 of other

01:04:47.940 partners

01:04:48.240 around the

01:04:48.520 world

01:04:48.620 because they

01:04:48.920 are queuing

01:04:49.760 up now

01:04:50.120 and look

01:04:50.500 at what

01:04:50.700 Trump

01:04:50.900 is doing

01:04:51.200 putting

01:04:51.380 people

01:04:51.620 on the

01:04:51.840 plane

01:04:52.140 that is

01:04:53.760 what people

01:04:54.140 wanted to

01:04:54.660 see

01:04:54.980 and we

01:04:55.800 would have

01:04:56.060 pulled that

01:04:56.400 off

01:04:56.580 and as I

01:04:58.000 said in my

01:04:58.580 speech

01:04:58.980 in April

01:04:59.620 2022

01:05:00.560 I went

01:05:01.000 down to

01:05:01.380 Dover

01:05:01.700 and I

01:05:02.840 explained to

01:05:03.800 everybody

01:05:04.180 look

01:05:04.580 you've got

01:05:07.400 to understand

01:05:07.940 that this

01:05:09.100 is going to

01:05:09.400 take time

01:05:09.980 because the

01:05:10.740 legal objections

01:05:11.420 will be

01:05:11.780 enormous

01:05:12.140 and there

01:05:12.780 will be

01:05:12.980 lawfare

01:05:13.420 against me

01:05:13.880 and people

01:05:14.220 will try

01:05:14.620 to screw

01:05:15.900 this thing

01:05:16.300 up

01:05:16.580 but we

01:05:19.000 would have

01:05:19.280 got it

01:05:19.520 done

01:05:19.800 people

01:05:20.440 said we

01:05:20.700 couldn't

01:05:20.900 get Brexit

01:05:21.320 done

01:05:21.520 we got

01:05:21.780 Brexit

01:05:22.080 done

01:05:22.360 but I'm

01:05:23.720 afraid from

01:05:24.080 April to

01:05:24.560 July 2022

01:05:25.920 wasn't enough

01:05:26.520 time for me

01:05:26.940 to do it

01:05:27.240 and then the

01:05:27.720 whole thing

01:05:28.000 lost momentum

01:05:29.160 we now need

01:05:30.680 obviously to

01:05:31.420 come out of

01:05:31.880 the ECHR

01:05:32.680 the European

01:05:33.540 Convention on

01:05:34.520 Human Rights

01:05:35.040 we need to

01:05:36.740 it was

01:05:38.240 clear that

01:05:39.860 the lawyers

01:05:40.560 were going to

01:05:40.920 use everything

01:05:41.300 they could

01:05:41.700 to stop it

01:05:42.960 but eventually

01:05:43.740 we would have

01:05:44.360 won

01:05:44.580 and I think

01:05:45.000 the mistake

01:05:45.580 has been

01:05:46.080 to scrap

01:05:47.080 the Rwanda

01:05:47.620 plan

01:05:48.000 and to

01:05:49.960 make us

01:05:51.240 defenseless

01:05:51.920 and I don't

01:05:53.420 know what the

01:05:53.720 numbers are now

01:05:54.260 but they seem

01:05:54.640 to be bigger

01:05:55.500 than ever

01:05:55.880 the people

01:05:56.700 coming across

01:05:57.260 the channel

01:05:58.160 the Rwanda

01:05:59.340 plan was a

01:06:00.540 great great

01:06:01.280 plan

01:06:01.720 and we

01:06:03.340 should

01:06:03.860 my advice

01:06:06.320 to Kenny

01:06:07.620 would be to

01:06:08.820 campaign on

01:06:10.780 coming out of

01:06:11.220 the ECHR

01:06:12.040 and reviving

01:06:13.520 Rwanda

01:06:14.280 because I

01:06:15.040 agree with

01:06:15.660 you

01:06:15.840 I think

01:06:16.700 actually

01:06:16.940 the British

01:06:17.260 people

01:06:17.740 I mean

01:06:18.580 I've said

01:06:19.360 what I've

01:06:19.560 said about

01:06:19.800 the numbers

01:06:20.180 in 2020

01:06:21.200 whatever it

01:06:22.020 was

01:06:22.160 they were

01:06:24.540 mainly driven

01:06:25.080 by overreaction

01:06:26.180 to COVID

01:06:26.620 and actually

01:06:27.500 it also

01:06:27.940 turned out

01:06:28.420 by the way

01:06:28.840 that

01:06:29.660 it was a lot

01:06:31.340 of Remain

01:06:31.840 hysteria

01:06:32.620 about

01:06:33.140 European

01:06:34.220 Union

01:06:34.680 nationals

01:06:35.420 they said

01:06:37.300 so everybody

01:06:38.300 the Remain

01:06:39.980 blob

01:06:40.540 said

01:06:41.520 Brexit's 0.94

01:06:43.420 going to be

01:06:43.680 such a nightmare

01:06:44.300 because

01:06:44.940 all the

01:06:46.460 3 million

01:06:47.380 European

01:06:48.300 Union

01:06:49.040 nationals

01:06:49.580 will flee

01:06:50.160 Britain

01:06:50.640 this leper 0.60

01:06:51.700 colony 0.72

01:06:52.180 horrible 0.97

01:06:53.540 hateful 0.96

01:06:54.100 island 0.74

01:06:54.400 that's

01:06:54.660 voted for

01:06:55.060 Brexit

01:06:55.300 and they'll

01:06:55.580 never come

01:06:56.180 back

01:06:56.580 it'll be

01:06:57.640 a disaster

01:06:58.040 and actually

01:06:58.360 what happened

01:06:58.780 first of all

01:06:59.780 they grossly

01:07:00.380 underestimated

01:07:00.960 there were in

01:07:01.400 fact 6 million

01:07:02.120 not 3 million

01:07:02.820 and a lot

01:07:04.520 of them did

01:07:04.840 come back

01:07:05.360 so you

01:07:06.360 know

01:07:06.520 that

01:07:07.620 certainly

01:07:08.280 helped

01:07:08.600 change

01:07:10.360 the numbers

01:07:12.140 there

01:07:12.340 and they

01:07:12.600 got that

01:07:13.500 totally wrong

01:07:14.100 but the

01:07:15.400 way to

01:07:15.760 fix the

01:07:17.560 problem

01:07:20.060 is to be

01:07:22.040 absolutely

01:07:22.700 ruthless

01:07:23.200 in stopping

01:07:24.080 people coming

01:07:24.700 here illegally

01:07:25.320 and in

01:07:26.060 expelling

01:07:26.500 those who

01:07:26.920 do

01:07:27.140 and

01:07:28.200 honestly

01:07:30.560 and this

01:07:31.280 is not a

01:07:31.740 popular point

01:07:32.300 of view

01:07:32.520 right now

01:07:33.020 I think

01:07:35.440 that some

01:07:35.900 of the

01:07:36.120 things that

01:07:36.680 the Trump

01:07:37.140 administration

01:07:37.680 are doing

01:07:39.900 are right

01:07:41.140 and I

01:07:42.600 think that

01:07:43.180 you know

01:07:44.460 he seems

01:07:46.500 I like

01:07:49.680 the

01:07:50.200 Elon Musk

01:07:51.760 cost cutting

01:07:53.060 stuff

01:07:53.480 it doesn't

01:07:54.420 I like it

01:07:55.260 and I

01:07:55.560 you'll find

01:07:57.560 in Unleashed

01:07:57.980 I told

01:07:58.980 I kept

01:08:00.100 telling

01:08:00.460 Rishi

01:08:01.560 that I wanted

01:08:02.000 to see this

01:08:02.520 and I kept

01:08:02.800 telling every

01:08:03.220 government

01:08:03.500 department

01:08:03.820 I wanted

01:08:04.180 to see

01:08:04.620 the

01:08:05.340 slaughtering

01:08:07.060 of the

01:08:07.300 sacred

01:08:07.600 cows

01:08:08.020 as I

01:08:09.700 kept

01:08:09.880 putting

01:08:10.080 into it

01:08:10.320 or Rishi

01:08:10.600 pointed out

01:08:11.080 that this

01:08:11.420 was against

01:08:11.940 Hindu

01:08:12.580 religion

01:08:13.040 I had

01:08:15.500 to try

01:08:15.840 and find

01:08:16.120 another

01:08:16.420 metaphor

01:08:16.880 but you

01:08:20.040 do need

01:08:21.720 in government

01:08:22.220 it's very

01:08:22.620 very hard

01:08:23.300 to cut

01:08:25.240 projects

01:08:26.740 because they're

01:08:27.200 all the

01:08:27.960 legacy of

01:08:28.520 some bloody

01:08:28.980 politician 0.91

01:08:29.460 or senior

01:08:30.160 civil servant

01:08:30.800 and people

01:08:32.000 have their

01:08:32.340 egos

01:08:32.680 invested

01:08:33.120 in them

01:08:33.560 and you

01:08:34.520 can see

01:08:34.740 this problem

01:08:35.160 in the

01:08:35.400 United States

01:08:35.900 now

01:08:36.200 and people

01:08:37.600 endlessly

01:08:37.980 produce

01:08:38.400 mutilated

01:08:39.140 stumps

01:08:39.660 to show

01:08:41.200 how cruel

01:08:42.220 you're being

01:08:43.340 but you've

01:08:44.460 got to do it

01:08:45.440 and I've got

01:08:46.000 to go

01:08:46.280 and

01:08:46.440 I've got

01:08:48.780 to go

01:08:49.700 and see

01:08:50.380 a man

01:08:50.560 about it

01:08:50.820 7 minutes

01:08:51.200 7 minutes

01:08:53.060 Boris

01:08:54.100 we have

01:08:54.460 military

01:08:54.840 precision

01:08:55.340 on the

01:08:55.720 show

01:08:55.960 7 minutes

01:08:57.940 7 minutes

01:09:00.300 7 minutes

01:09:00.580 7 minutes

01:09:01.920 this is what

01:09:02.380 he does

01:09:02.860 this is villain

01:09:03.560 bustering in

01:09:04.260 French

01:09:04.660 I know what's

01:09:05.220 going on

01:09:05.700 anyway

01:09:06.220 our last

01:09:06.920 question

01:09:07.320 and then we're

01:09:08.880 going to ask

01:09:09.220 you some

01:09:09.560 questions from

01:09:10.300 our supporters

01:09:10.780 right

01:09:11.180 I think we

01:09:12.400 might as well

01:09:12.720 go to the

01:09:12.980 supporters

01:09:13.260 we've got

01:09:13.560 7 minutes

01:09:14.100 fine

01:09:14.380 let's go to

01:09:14.980 the supporters

01:09:15.340 we're heading

01:09:16.740 over to

01:09:17.120 subsec

01:09:17.520 where you get

01:09:17.960 to ask

01:09:18.280 your questions

01:09:18.860 to Boris

01:09:19.420 and he'll

01:09:20.620 answer them

01:09:20.980 in French

01:09:21.380 probably

01:09:21.840 bien sûr

01:09:22.280 why did you

01:09:24.460 think we

01:09:24.980 should do

01:09:25.280 the Swedish

01:09:25.660 model

01:09:25.980 and then

01:09:26.380 decide it

01:09:26.840 against it

01:09:27.360 but if you

01:09:28.060 aren't happy

01:09:28.580 you're the

01:09:28.900 prime minister

01:09:29.300 why don't

01:09:29.580 you just

01:09:29.820 say no

01:09:30.240 guys

01:09:30.480 we're not

01:09:30.720 doing this

01:09:31.220 I'm a

01:09:31.800 libertarian

01:09:32.320 I believe

01:09:32.780 in freedom

01:09:33.200 I believe

01:09:33.680 people should

01:09:34.320 blah blah 0.97

01:09:34.780 blah

01:09:35.060 that's

01:09:35.500 your convictions

01:09:45.340 broadway's

01:09:47.880 smash hit

01:09:48.660 the Neil

01:09:49.140 Diamond

01:09:49.440 musical

01:09:49.960 a beautiful

01:09:50.860 noise

01:09:51.500 is coming

01:09:52.200 to Toronto

01:09:52.820 the true

01:09:53.460 story of

01:09:54.000 a kid

01:09:54.320 from Brooklyn

01:09:54.920 destined

01:09:55.440 for something

01:09:56.040 more

01:09:56.440 featuring all

01:09:57.120 the songs

01:09:57.600 you love

01:09:58.200 including

01:09:58.720 America

01:09:59.360 Forever in

01:10:00.100 Blue Jeans

01:10:00.680 and Sweet

01:10:01.320 Caroline

01:10:01.860 like Jersey

01:10:02.940 Boys and

01:10:03.580 Beautiful

01:10:03.940 the next

01:10:04.620 musical

01:10:05.100 mega hit

01:10:05.740 is here

01:10:06.240 the Neil

01:10:06.840 Diamond

01:10:07.200 musical

01:10:07.740 a beautiful

01:10:08.580 noise

01:10:09.080 now through

01:10:09.640 June 7th

01:10:10.420 2026

01:10:11.220 at the

01:10:11.880 Princess of

01:10:12.440 Wales

01:10:12.680 Theatre

01:10:13.100 get tickets

01:10:13.860 at

01:10:14.080 Murbush.com

01:10:15.220 lude

01:10:16.260 駿

01:10:17.240 s

01:10:17.440 video

01:10:17.960 鐘

01:10:31.160 駿

01:10:31.740 駿

01:10:32.340 駿

01:10:32.780 駿

01:10:33.180 駿

01:10:33.940 駿

01:10:35.040 Ut

01:10:36.200 駿

01:10:37.040 $

TRIGGERnometry - March 16, 2025

Boris Johnson：＂I Talked to Putin...＂

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

TRIGGERnometry - March 16, 2025

Boris Johnson： ＂I Talked to Putin...＂

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Boris Johnson：＂I Talked to Putin...＂