TRIGGERnometry - Cancelled by Woke Church of England

00:00:00.000 Your full Great Outdoors Comedy Festival lineup is here on September 11th through 13th at Arendelle Park.

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00:00:15.980 Hello and welcome to a very special live episode of Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster.

00:00:23.080 I'm Constantine Kissin.

00:00:24.180 and this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people we are here

00:00:31.020 live with our brilliant and returning guest it's one calvin robinson welcome back man thank you

00:00:35.760 thank you honestly the most referenced show that people talk to me about is your show they say i've

00:00:40.860 seen you on trigonometry i first heard about you on trigonometry so it's good to be back on this

00:00:44.540 show all right well you've managed to get yourself cancelled yet again in your life so you're back on

00:00:48.680 the show. But it's been a busy time for you. And just before we get into everything that's

00:00:54.960 been going on, for people who are not familiar, who are tuning in, maybe heard a bit of the

00:00:58.260 story, don't know who you are, just give everybody a little refresher of your background, where

00:01:02.640 you're coming from, etc. Who I am in 30 seconds. I've been training for the priesthood for

00:01:07.560 Holy Orders in the Church of England for the last couple of years, reading theology at

00:01:11.020 Oxford. I present and sit on panels on GB News and occasionally write in the broadsheets

00:01:18.280 and tabloids. That sums up

00:01:20.100 who I am aware of. And you're a very

00:01:22.020 prominent conservative commentator

00:01:23.700 and I would say one of the things that

00:01:26.100 I find interesting about you is

00:01:27.460 you comment on some of the

00:01:30.040 cultural stuff that we also talk about

00:01:31.880 but you do it from a very

00:01:32.920 restrained place. You're not

00:01:35.760 some massive culture warrior who's

00:01:37.820 going around being provocative for the sake of it

00:01:39.740 which I think probably reflects the faith

00:01:41.800 journey that you're

00:01:43.780 on as well. So you've come

00:01:45.900 into prominence yet again in the last

00:01:47.940 week because you've had some issues with the Church of England in which you were training.

00:01:52.960 So just give everybody the whole story from the beginning.

00:01:56.420 So I think you've hit the nail on the head there in that I do comment on the culture

00:01:59.400 wars, but from a faith perspective.

00:02:00.940 It's all about the faith for me.

00:02:02.560 It's all about putting Christ at the center of everything that I do.

00:02:05.000 And I fight the good fight for that reason, because I think that our society is running

00:02:08.780 down the wrong direction, and it has been for the last few years.

00:02:11.840 It's chasing wokeness.

00:02:13.540 Unfortunately, I believe the church is also going down that path.

00:02:17.080 in so many ways.

00:02:18.920 I think I mentioned last time I was on

00:02:20.700 about churches closing throughout the pandemic

00:02:22.480 in a time when there was a great need for people

00:02:24.940 to have someone looking out for their spiritual well-being.

00:02:27.460 The churches said,

00:02:28.920 we're not just closing to the people,

00:02:30.340 we're closing to priests.

00:02:31.220 You can no longer come in and pray for your parishioners.

00:02:34.260 We've seen that cathedrals have said

00:02:36.620 you can only come in if you've got a medical mandate

00:02:39.880 to not use key technology

00:02:41.340 that's going to trigger your platform.

00:02:43.280 um we've seen the church take on board critical race theory so this is something that i posed

00:02:50.260 quite loudly in that they put out a report called lament to action which took on board a whole load

00:02:55.800 of critical race theory language anti-white sentiments you know quotas for ethnic minorities

00:03:00.860 all of this kind of stuff i said this is incompatible with our faith why i get that

00:03:05.480 there's a there's a topic of conversation here that's not just national but global around black

00:03:09.960 clients matter we have to be a part of it of course we do because we're a faith based on justice

00:03:13.640 but we can't take on board neo-marxist ideologies in order to address the issue we can't you know

00:03:18.980 the church they stood up and said we are institutionally racist without any evidence

00:03:23.140 nothing to back it up just we are deeply institutionally racist these are the words

00:03:27.280 of the archbishop of canterbury now i said to my bishop the bishop of london i don't think that's

00:03:32.620 appropriate i think that's quite divisive because of course there's so much racism going on in the

00:03:36.880 world and in the country and potentially in the church but that's individuals that's malicious

00:03:41.620 or ignorant individuals that need you know they need the consequences of their actions need to

00:03:47.720 be brought to them not the entire institution don't paint us all as racist unless you've got

00:03:52.280 some evidence to back that up then i'll hold my hands up and say okay maybe it is but you know

00:03:56.220 the sewell report came out the cred report that looked into racism and racial disparities in our

00:04:01.500 country didn't find any evidence of racial institutional racism doesn't mean it didn't

00:04:06.740 exist it didn't find any evidence of it so I tend to go along with the lines of that that racial

00:04:10.580 disparities aren't necessarily a sign of racism but are things that we need to address on a wider

00:04:16.400 picture what socio-economic factors at play tend to be geography class background you know education

00:04:23.580 all of these things come into someone's situation not just their skin color and if we put it all

00:04:28.480 down skin colour, we're dismissing the wider image, the wider problem, and we can't actually

00:04:32.600 solve it. So I said this, and the very upper middle class, white, metropolitan, liberal

00:04:38.460 elite bishop turned around and he said, Calvin, I can tell you as a white woman, the church

00:04:43.300 is institution racist. And I'm like, okay, where do I go from here? Because it's very

00:04:49.340 difficult, that level of not cognitive dissonance, but choice. It's a choice to take on board

00:04:54.760 an ideology and not to consider other perspectives and part of the ideology is actually you know

00:04:59.320 taking on board the lived experiences of ethnic minorities and I as an ethnic minority I'm standing

00:05:05.140 up there saying I want to give you my lived experience they're saying no no no that's the

00:05:08.620 wrong type of lived experience just as they're always saying you know you're the wrong type of

00:05:12.640 black we want the black people that we can pat on the head and say good black person you're falling

00:05:15.700 in line with our with our way of life and with our thinking I find it patronizing almost to the

00:05:20.320 point of racism actually in order to prove their point that the church is institution racist

00:05:25.240 they said actually calvin we don't want to hear your point of view and said we don't want to see

00:05:30.160 you anymore you're gone so calvin how long has the church been following this path was it like

00:05:35.520 a lot of organizations and institutions it all came to a head with george floyd and the blm

00:05:41.020 demonstrations already had it already been going down that path for a while it had already been

00:05:45.140 going down that path so i think it was 2017 when the abc the archbishop of canterbury stood up and

00:05:49.800 that the church is institutionally racist.

00:05:52.100 And then they put out this lament-to-action report

00:05:54.340 around the time of Black Lives Matter

00:05:56.120 that backed up that statement

00:05:57.560 and pointed to his saying that in the General Synod as evidence.

00:06:02.080 And then they recently put out a contested heritage report

00:06:04.540 which advises clergymen how to remove

00:06:07.660 potentially harmful statues and monuments from their churches

00:06:10.940 and said that this country is institutionally racist

00:06:13.780 and it referred to the lament-to-action report as evidence of that.

00:06:16.620 So it's a cyclical leftist approach to academia

00:06:19.480 that evidence isn't actually evidence,

00:06:21.400 it's all anecdotal, it all points to each other.

00:06:23.580 But this idea that statues and monuments

00:06:26.120 can be harmful by just being there.

00:06:29.720 I get that people can take offence to anything,

00:06:31.960 but offence is taken, not usually given,

00:06:34.920 especially with inanimate objects like that.

00:06:37.860 But these statues that we have up,

00:06:41.000 they're usually honouring something

00:06:42.040 that someone's contributed to our society,

00:06:44.880 and or they're usually there

00:06:46.560 to represent someone who's died.

00:06:47.820 they're not there to say this was a perfect human being

00:06:50.240 and in fact

00:06:51.700 if you're a Christian you acknowledge that nobody's a perfect

00:06:53.980 human being, there's only ever been one

00:06:55.820 perfect person and that was Jesus Christ

00:06:57.960 himself, everyone else is fallen

00:06:59.860 everyone else is flawed, individuals

00:07:01.640 so we all have pasts, so this idea that

00:07:04.100 oh somewhere in his past his great

00:07:06.060 grandfather had links to the British Empire

00:07:07.780 therefore he needs to be removed because this is

00:07:09.920 colonialism, that's a nonsense that goes

00:07:12.100 against the faith and so does the

00:07:14.080 whole of critical race theory, this idea that

00:07:15.960 white people are either overtly or covertly racist

00:07:18.960 creates a new kind of

00:07:20.800 original sin. It's a sin that only

00:07:22.580 white people can commit, therefore

00:07:24.140 again it's anti-Christian because we're all

00:07:26.400 sinners. But if there's a sin that

00:07:28.380 white people can only commit and white people cannot escape

00:07:30.700 either it's overtly or covertly

00:07:32.360 happening, then there's no repentance

00:07:34.460 there's no forgiveness

00:07:35.560 and there's no salvation. Again, that's

00:07:38.200 anti-Christian. All of this goes against our faith

00:07:40.300 even the scripture itself

00:07:42.360 in Galatians or Acts

00:07:44.480 When we hear that there's neither Jew nor Greek

00:07:46.660 or that we're all made of one blood, one nation,

00:07:49.280 the Christian idea is that we're united.

00:07:51.300 Our identity is in Christ.

00:07:52.840 It's not in our immutable characteristics.

00:07:54.600 Our skin colour is irrelevant.

00:07:56.200 So the people that are really pushing this,

00:07:58.760 you know, the church has doubled down today actually

00:08:00.260 and they've put out a statement saying

00:08:02.540 we back our efforts to support our anti-racism task force.

00:08:08.660 Again, what's an anti-racism task force

00:08:10.340 and why does a church have one?

00:08:11.700 sure the better thing is for us all to just not be racist

00:08:15.020 but it's that tribalism isn't it

00:08:16.940 that you've got to be in the anti-racism camp

00:08:18.720 otherwise you must be a racist

00:08:20.640 it's like actually no, let's take a step back

00:08:23.300 let's look at the bigger picture

00:08:24.940 what the church has done

00:08:26.460 in these reports they've said

00:08:28.540 every leadership position in the church

00:08:30.740 must have 30%

00:08:32.880 UKME people being put forward

00:08:34.860 on a short list

00:08:35.600 now UKME is the church's language for BAME

00:08:38.700 it's UK minority ethnic

00:08:40.860 which is obviously the same as black and Asian minority ethnics,

00:08:44.220 which is basically not white.

00:08:45.720 If you're not white, you're part of the same club.

00:08:48.840 We all think alike, we vote alike, we talk alike.

00:08:51.920 That's how they see us.

00:08:53.600 But, of course, that's not true.

00:08:55.480 But the idea that 30% of every leadership position in the Church of England

00:08:58.620 needs to have an ethnic minority shortlist,

00:09:01.900 well, roughly 12% to 14% of the British population

00:09:05.460 is ethnic minority status, but half of them are Muslim.

00:09:08.640 So that leaves roughly...

00:09:10.080 What are you doing?

00:09:11.000 Let's get some Muslims in the Church of England.

00:09:13.840 Diversity of thought, Calvary.

00:09:15.200 One vicar held up a plaque recently saying we are all Muslims now,

00:09:18.120 and I kind of think that's the way we're going.

00:09:20.980 But that leaves 7% of the whole population.

00:09:24.400 If you're in somewhere like London,

00:09:25.500 you've got a good chance of getting 30% of the shortness.

00:09:27.500 But if you're somewhere up north or down south,

00:09:30.160 not so much the case always.

00:09:31.960 It's an arbitrary number.

00:09:33.260 But then they're also going down the routes of affirmative action

00:09:36.120 or positive discrimination,

00:09:37.680 and I don't think there is any discrimination that is positive

00:09:40.140 but we're in that

00:09:41.820 they've just had an election

00:09:44.220 for the General Synod, the governing body

00:09:46.140 of the Church of England, anyone could put themselves up

00:09:48.140 for election if they're a member of the church

00:09:49.540 and they're saying actually we need to co-opt some brown people

00:09:52.120 on as well, as if to suggest that

00:09:54.060 ethnic minorities can't put ourselves up for election

00:09:56.240 we're not clever enough to do that or we don't

00:09:58.080 believe in a democratic process, so they have to

00:10:00.120 co-opt five members on

00:10:01.620 who happen to be UKME

00:10:02.960 that's backwards thinking to me

00:10:05.760 that's you know calvin look we agree with you on this show with all of that completely whether

00:10:10.560 it's where neither of us is churchgoers but we it's a principle i think that applies universally

00:10:15.640 but what i think look people are allowed to have different opinions and if someone wants to believe

00:10:20.440 in critical race theory that is entirely up to them right the problem with your case from what

00:10:25.580 i can tell is your views were quite well known within the church and as you went through your

00:10:30.960 training for which the church which the church subsidized to some extent as i understand

00:10:35.020 actually people behind your back were having conversations by email which you've since

00:10:39.920 discovered about how you must be prevented from advancing and and all of that and to me if people

00:10:46.420 in the church of england believe in critical race theory or want to implement some of these

00:10:50.220 progressive work ideas you know it's a free country do whatever you want the problem is

00:10:55.020 when people like you start to be excluded now i know you'll have your strength of feeling about

00:10:59.240 some of those ideologies as we both do as well my point is what i'm getting at is it's not so

00:11:05.000 much the case that, you know, they had these ideas and you had different ideas. It's that,

00:11:09.240 like with many other institutions now, and we see this across the board, your ideas are not allowed

00:11:14.860 to be had, they're not allowed to be expressed, and you have to be pushed out. Talk to us about

00:11:19.780 that. I will. I would go a step further and say if these ideas are counter-scriptural, they have

00:11:24.380 no place in Christianity. So anyone can believe in critical race theory if they want to. I would

00:11:27.680 say it has no place in the church. But my argument has been silenced, and it came to the end of my

00:11:34.040 training i'm just finishing now and and i was put forward to a parish to be an assistant priest

00:11:39.720 that's got taken that position got taken away and i asked you know why what's going on one of the

00:11:46.740 bishops and i won't mention any names on here because i don't want to sue you i'm happy for

00:11:49.620 them to sue me because i'll just release all the evidence and make it all public i don't want to

00:11:52.800 sue you guys but one of the bishops said um you know it would be too turbulent to calvin because

00:11:58.660 people might complain about your views i was like well i like to think my views i'm mostly christian

00:12:03.760 and if you don't think they are, tell me which ones aren't.

00:12:06.060 But if people are complaining about my Christian views,

00:12:09.160 then surely I'm doing something right.

00:12:10.660 But anyway, show me the complaints and I'll try and improve my practice

00:12:13.500 and not be as offensive.

00:12:15.700 And they refused to show me, so I put in a subject access request,

00:12:19.480 which enables me to see any communication about me within the church.

00:12:24.220 And that was a big surprise because this was all new to me,

00:12:27.760 that I saw from these communications that bishops had been talking behind my back

00:12:31.040 for the last couple of years, before they even sent me to training.

00:12:33.760 bear in mind they just paid 20 grand to send me to oxford and it's not their money it's the money

00:12:38.360 that the poor old ladies in the pews that they've used to send me to oxford uh and before even

00:12:43.080 sending me they decided that they didn't want me to be ordained and the biggest cause that i could

00:12:47.580 see from the communications is calvin does not believe in institutional racist racism there

00:12:52.200 calvin does not believe in institutional racism therefore we should keep an eye on his ordination

00:12:56.000 process nudge nudge wink wink it's the kind of he does not agree with our politics therefore do we

00:13:01.760 really have a place for him and that that worries me because obviously I've got a platform I can

00:13:07.280 expose all of this nonsense but what about all the other conservatives what about all the whether

00:13:10.960 politically or theologically conservative that have been silenced and pushed out and since I've

00:13:15.520 spoken up I've had so many people like laymen there's you know people in the congregations

00:13:20.400 but also clergymen priests that have reached out said you know this is happening to me I can't

00:13:24.820 speak out because I'm reliant on the stipend you know I get starved out or I've been bullied out

00:13:29.260 because of this, I can't talk about it yet

00:13:31.340 because my case is still ongoing

00:13:32.520 it's everywhere, and it's

00:13:35.340 so demoralising

00:13:36.420 it's very upsetting, and I use that word

00:13:39.520 purposefully because

00:13:41.100 one of the bishops has come out today with a statement

00:13:43.460 so in all the media they haven't given any

00:13:45.440 statements other than there's no place for Calvin

00:13:47.400 because we don't have enough slots in London

00:13:48.940 which is an outright lie, because I had

00:13:51.460 a space that was taken away, and there are many priests

00:13:53.460 that have offered me spaces to train with them since

00:13:55.260 but anyway, that's the statement they put out, until today

00:13:57.540 one bishop has put out a statement in the Church Times

00:14:00.340 which is the mouthpiece of the Church of England

00:14:02.000 because it's reliant on the money from the institution

00:14:04.160 it's very much establishment

00:14:05.300 liberal media

00:14:07.080 and one of the bishops put out a statement

00:14:09.260 saying that actually

00:14:11.680 Calvin is

00:14:13.940 well I'm not trying to get too personal

00:14:16.440 but Calvin is

00:14:17.220 incorrect on this

00:14:20.000 or my understanding of these conversations was incorrect

00:14:22.500 I'm like okay sure I'll put all the information out there

00:14:24.720 but I lost my train of thought on where I was going with it

00:14:27.560 You're talking about the Church Times and the statement that they put out today.

00:14:30.860 So before that, they were saying that there's no space for you,

00:14:33.360 but now they've said something different?

00:14:35.320 Yeah, yeah.

00:14:36.380 Anyway, we'll come back to it.

00:14:37.660 The thing I was going to ask you...

00:14:38.940 Live television.

00:14:39.860 Yeah, it's like GB News here.

00:14:42.520 No, the thing I was going to ask you, Calvin, is I'm not a Christian.

00:14:47.280 I don't understand how these things work.

00:14:48.600 But I would have thought that if I think of priests or preachers off the top of my head

00:14:54.700 that I think of, that I would recall.

00:14:57.640 I'd imagine quite a few of them would have had offensive views

00:15:00.840 for some people in the society at the time in which they expressed them.

00:15:04.220 Probably starting with Jesus himself, I would have thought.

00:15:06.960 Let me pause you there before I forget what I've just remembered.

00:15:08.780 I use the word upset, and I'm very upset about this situation.

00:15:11.480 But the statement that the bishop put out through the church times,

00:15:14.200 and bearing in mind they haven't put a statement out anywhere else,

00:15:16.240 not in the Telegraph of the Times, the Mail on Sunday, the Express,

00:15:19.560 but the church times put out a statement saying,

00:15:22.200 I'm sad to hear that Calvin is very angry about this situation.

00:15:25.460 It's the gaslighting.

00:15:26.940 When have you ever seen me angry?

00:15:28.240 Ever.

00:15:29.520 That's not how I put myself across.

00:15:31.340 And that's in line with when I've had conversations with them

00:15:33.760 saying, look, I find this all very disappointing

00:15:35.760 because it's not in line with our teaching.

00:15:38.020 And I say, look, Calvin, it's not what you say.

00:15:39.860 It's how you say it.

00:15:41.280 And I find that so annoying

00:15:42.980 because I try to at least be compassionate.

00:15:45.220 I try to be very moderate.

00:15:46.800 So I'm not one of these people that's very shouty

00:15:48.800 or going over the top.

00:15:51.040 So I don't think that's the truth.

00:15:53.400 I think it's a dishonesty.

00:15:54.180 don't you think what's very interesting is i would see you as a classical conservative

00:16:00.100 and to be religious means a lot of the time you are conservative by nature so in many ways you're

00:16:08.080 just reflecting the views of your parishioners who are both religious and conservative i don't

00:16:13.560 understand what is controversial about that trying to i'll draw both of your questions together

00:16:17.380 because i think jesus christ was controversial i think he rebuked people quite often said

00:16:22.960 you're wrong on that you know he was polite but he was he was very abrupt so that's wrong this is

00:16:27.980 the way because he is the truth and you know he actually he did get quite angry at times and

00:16:33.360 turned up the tables in the temple when money laundering was going on um i do think his

00:16:39.540 statement was controversial i think his whole message is controversial it's actually the most

00:16:43.660 scandalous message in human history that god came to earth as man incarnate and died for our sins

00:16:48.600 for our salvation it's quite out there I don't know if we can tell the story without being

00:16:55.460 controversial and you know the bishops say you've got to appease everybody you've got to

00:16:59.220 be more peaceable and I don't think you can appease everyone I think it's a divisive message

00:17:03.940 and we're here to warn people of what's to come and to warn people away from badness and point

00:17:10.600 them towards goodness to point them towards Christ it's quite simple but it is divisive

00:17:13.780 it is controversial. I completely agree with you. But let's focus on that point about your views.

00:17:21.000 How have we got to a place where a person can have mainstream conservative opinions that reflect

00:17:26.940 his parishioners and at the same time be forced out of the church? Because small c conservative

00:17:32.420 views are, there might be mainstream and there might be in the majority, but of course it's a

00:17:36.520 silent majority still. And the very vocal minority of the liberal elites or the woke people is seen

00:17:43.440 as the the normative and we i mean we know it's not because you get so many people contacting you

00:17:47.980 on a daily basis to say what their views are but when all you see in here in the mainstream media

00:17:53.220 and in politics is that liberal elite perspective a metropolitan liberal perspective people start

00:17:58.820 to believe it is the appropriate one to have in a public space and you know people have compared

00:18:05.180 me to other uh trainee priests that have been uh going through similar stuff so there's there's

00:18:10.820 another black or ethnic

00:18:12.740 minority person who got ordained

00:18:14.900 last year actually, that put out a statement

00:18:16.640 and again I won't mention any names, but he put out a statement saying

00:18:18.780 that the cult, that whole

00:18:20.860 idea about celebrating

00:18:22.260 Captain Tom Moore for raising, what was it

00:18:24.780 32 million for the NHS? Amazing.

00:18:27.560 What a great man.

00:18:28.760 What a patriot, you know, served our country

00:18:30.740 more than once. But said that that was

00:18:32.860 a cult of white nationalism

00:18:34.280 suggesting it's white supremacy to support

00:18:36.720 this chap.

00:18:37.220 Like 30,000 people put a petition together to say,

00:18:42.360 please don't ordain this man because he's a racist.

00:18:44.400 The church not only ordained him, they've encouraged him, supported him.

00:18:47.520 So this guy is getting ordained, you're getting kicked out.

00:18:51.480 Because he sees the right sort of racism.

00:18:53.580 He sees anyone that's white as racist and sees this country as racist.

00:18:58.160 And I don't think that's true.

00:18:59.200 I think individuals are racist and they need to be held responsible for actions.

00:19:02.060 So, Calvin, what is this about, really?

00:19:03.460 Because, you know, I've watched a few like Yuri Bezmenov lectures about demoralization and all of that.

00:19:10.820 And I can't help but think that if the church is going down this path,

00:19:14.460 we really have got to a point where all the institutions and the systems and the structures

00:19:19.320 that were designed to keep the good things about the society that we have in place.

00:19:24.480 Now, look, no one, I certainly wouldn't argue that society doesn't need to move forward

00:19:27.760 and adjust to the times and grow as technologically we grow

00:19:30.900 and embed all of that into how we live our lives.

00:19:34.680 But I also think tradition and history and past

00:19:38.420 and all of these things have value too.

00:19:40.720 And yet we are seeing across every industry now, it seems,

00:19:44.560 in every field, in every element of our lives,

00:19:47.540 this creep of these new ideas

00:19:50.860 that are undermining and destroying those things.

00:19:54.220 What do you think this is about?

00:19:56.460 I think progress isn't linear.

00:19:58.460 I think we can go down lots of different routes in life,

00:20:00.540 but that's how they get you to say well it's 2022 of course xyz should be the case as if like

00:20:05.060 because it's this year we're better than everyone in the past of course we should think this but

00:20:08.960 uro bezmanov was absolutely right as was gromsky as with this whole idea of the long march through

00:20:13.720 the institutions and the centuryism it has taken place you know i can see it in front of my eyes

00:20:18.260 we're talking about the church today so i'll use that as an example out of 116 bishops only one of

00:20:24.280 them overtly put their for their case for brexit the rest of them were either silent on brexit or

00:20:30.000 overtly supporting Remain.

00:20:32.000 So there's massive disconnects between them and the

00:20:34.060 general public. But even amongst people

00:20:36.080 within the church, the congregations,

00:20:38.040 70% of normal laity

00:20:40.160 voted for Brexit.

00:20:41.820 So that's even more than the general public.

00:20:43.940 So that disconnect is very, very clear there.

00:20:46.160 But Yuri Bezimov talks about this

00:20:48.060 entryism and what's going on and how they're going to

00:20:50.200 infiltrate our public institutions,

00:20:51.980 our public bodies. In the church, it's not just

00:20:54.080 the bishops, it's the people who select the bishops.

00:20:56.520 In this country, it's down to one individual

00:20:58.120 to put forward names for bishops.

00:21:00.680 Technically speaking, Her Majesty the Queen chooses the bishops

00:21:03.600 on recommendation of the Prime Minister,

00:21:06.020 but that's not how it works in practice.

00:21:07.640 One individual, a civil servant, puts forward the names,

00:21:10.360 and this is because Gordon Brown was embarrassed

00:21:12.740 about being a Scottish Presbyterian

00:21:14.740 and responsible for bishops in the Church of England,

00:21:16.600 so he stepped back from it.

00:21:18.180 And obviously our monarchy is now constitutional,

00:21:19.900 so she doesn't make an active decision.

00:21:21.840 So this civil servant, who's just retired after 17 years,

00:21:25.120 and we've got an even worse one in now,

00:21:26.380 has been putting forward liberal names for bishops constantly over the last two decades,

00:21:30.640 and that's why they're all of a groupthink, you know, they're in an echo chamber of a groupthink

00:21:34.580 mentality. But don't you think, Calvin, that this is a perfect example that church and politics

00:21:41.580 shouldn't mix? The church shouldn't get involved in politics in any shape or form?

00:21:48.000 Yes and no. I think, you know, the reason we have the Lord's spiritual in the House of Parliament

00:21:52.640 is because they're supposed to be the moral compass of the nation, and if the government

00:21:55.640 is putting forward something that's anti-christian the lord spiritual actually is supposed to say

00:21:59.720 well you know this this is a more moral case um because it's still supposed to be a christian

00:22:05.280 country whether people want it to be or not but they're not doing that they are getting party

00:22:09.140 political and the bishops are campaigning against government policy because it's conservative you

00:22:14.500 know like the rwanda plan and saying it's ungodly and then they're moralizing that the special

00:22:19.140 covid medicine and say you have to be a good christian you have to take this um so did they

00:22:24.540 really say that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. To be a good Christian, if you love your neighbour,

00:22:27.580 you will take the special medicine. That's inappropriate. That's overreach.

00:22:32.860 Jab for Jesus.

00:22:34.780 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's wrong. You know, people should have an individual right

00:22:38.840 to make a choice based on the data available. For that particular medicine, there wasn't

00:22:42.180 a lot of data available, so I understand why some people chose not to take it. But the

00:22:45.940 church has no place to say, to be a good Christian, you have to. That makes me sick.

00:22:49.520 but it's all over the place it's in every issue it's in trans it's in race it's in gender it's

00:22:55.140 in sexuality do you think part of the problem is that and look we're not just talking about

00:23:00.700 the church of england here we're also going to invoke my boys the catholic church you look at

00:23:06.280 the history of a lot of the church and there's quite a lot of you know how can we put this real

00:23:14.360 serious crimes committed and do you think part of this is just guilt looking back and saying

00:23:19.900 we've really messed up here we need to really make sure we're hot on all the subject matter

00:23:25.680 and all these political topics so that no one can ever accuse us of being racist sexist etc

00:23:31.560 perhaps but i think they need to look at they need to get back to the core message what is

00:23:35.540 the church for what's it about it's about jesus christ it's about evangelizing it's about

00:23:40.080 discipling the nations

00:23:41.520 and it's about teaching people

00:23:43.820 the truth, the way and the life. It's as simple as that.

00:23:46.040 They just need to return to the book. Return to the Bible.

00:23:48.160 Do what it says in the Bible. Promote those messages.

00:23:50.660 If there's a big fad going on

00:23:52.160 in the secular state, let the politicians

00:23:53.920 discuss it. Let them bash it out.

00:23:55.740 But the church doesn't need to keep

00:23:57.720 getting involved in party political

00:23:59.520 matters. And this is why I've come to the

00:24:01.640 conclusion that actually, maybe the church

00:24:03.540 needs to be disestablished. Maybe it needs to be

00:24:05.700 separate. Take the church away from

00:24:07.620 the state so that we can

00:24:09.360 and actually have people going to the church

00:24:11.560 if they want to look after the spiritual well-being,

00:24:13.620 but not have the bishops involve themselves

00:24:16.240 in political matters.

00:24:19.160 And, Calvin, do you think maybe an alternative explanation

00:24:22.540 to the one that Francis posited is that

00:24:24.640 we know that the Church of England is not doing well

00:24:28.540 by historical standards.

00:24:30.300 It's in decline, let's say.

00:24:32.180 Do you think there's maybe part of it where they sort of like,

00:24:34.880 everyone wants to capture young people nowadays,

00:24:37.140 television comedy everyone young people you know we've got to get to the young

00:24:41.400 people and and so maybe if we go woke we're gonna get the young people to

00:24:46.740 join the church they're all now and if we've got a trans flag on on top of the

00:24:50.400 spire then then then everything then then we're gonna get the people to come

00:24:54.120 in and pray which they're not doing 100% it's the same as the BBC isn't it it's

00:24:58.180 like attracting an audience that doesn't actually exist they're trying to be

00:25:01.660 overtly work they're trying to be very liberal progressive and think this is

00:25:04.240 the young people want let's attract these you know let's get the trendy young people it's like

00:25:08.480 that i'm one of you fellow kids it's that whole thing isn't it it's so cringe it's embarrassing

00:25:13.440 and the church shouldn't be trying to chase the societal norms anyway on any of these issues

00:25:17.920 because the church should be counter-cultural it should be an alternative to put it scripturally

00:25:21.760 it should be a shining light in an ever-darkening world around us because people are sick and tired

00:25:26.080 a lot of people are sick and tired of what's going on around us we're sick and tired of being lied to

00:25:30.480 you know being told there are 99 genders or you can identify as a horse if you want to

00:25:34.480 these i'm using a ridiculous example but this is stuff that's actually going on people know

00:25:39.760 the truth they know that it's just male or female people know that well if being white doesn't make

00:25:45.200 you a racist and being black doesn't make you a victim and when they get sick and tired of what's

00:25:50.160 going on around them this day they should be looking towards something different alternative

00:25:53.440 but if the church isn't offering that where are they going to go well this is why people end up

00:25:56.640 up in these stupid things like Extinction Rebellion. Because not only are people looking

00:26:00.040 for a truth rather than the truth, people are also looking for a sense of belonging,

00:26:06.100 a community, a place to be, a family. And if these wacky groups are offering it and

00:26:10.440 the church isn't, they're going to join the wacky groups.

00:26:12.620 What really bothers me about this situation as well, Cameron, is like, as I said, I'm

00:26:16.120 not a church goer. I don't go to church. It's not an important part of my life. But

00:26:21.080 I also, I don't want to live in a society where it was the same, right? People should

00:26:25.380 be allowed to have christian conservative views like we have christian conservatives that work

00:26:30.460 on the show right and we have arguments and disagreements over the dinner table as we talk

00:26:34.760 about this stuff and it's interesting and it's the spice that adds to the mix right difference

00:26:40.100 but it seems to me like all the institutions they they've all got to be the same way right

00:26:45.700 and there would have been a past in the 1930s or 40s where it was the other way around it was all

00:26:50.420 like that, right? But I just

00:26:52.420 it seems to me like we're overswinging

00:26:54.420 in the other direction, where everything

00:26:56.440 is becoming homogenous and everyone has to

00:26:58.380 think the same, otherwise you're evil, bigot

00:27:00.280 or whatever. Absolutely, like I have

00:27:02.320 very strong opinions on these things, but that doesn't mean I'm right

00:27:04.440 and I'm willing to debate them

00:27:06.160 and have my ideas challenged, but it seems the

00:27:08.260 opposition isn't. So in these emails

00:27:10.160 I saw from the bishops, for example, when I

00:27:12.300 championed a petition against Lament to

00:27:14.320 Action, that ridiculously CRT-infested

00:27:16.440 report, the bishops had a conversation

00:27:18.200 amongst themselves and said, well it looks like we're right on this

00:27:20.360 than if Calvin Robertson is opposed to it.

00:27:22.560 That's how they're affirming that they are right.

00:27:24.400 They're not engaging in conversation.

00:27:25.620 They're not saying, actually, here's an ethnic minority within the church

00:27:28.040 that has a different perspective to what we're used to.

00:27:30.380 Let's take that one on board too and look at the wider picture.

00:27:32.820 It's like, no, this is a right-wing loon, so we must be right.

00:27:36.760 I just can't believe, because you've never been someone

00:27:40.040 who shied away from what you believe in.

00:27:41.760 You've always been very forthright.

00:27:43.020 You've always been very honest.

00:27:44.780 So I then look at it and then go, well, why did they bring you in?

00:27:49.460 Exactly.

00:27:49.860 why have they invested all this money in order to you know to give you this training and wonderful

00:27:55.860 education at oxford in order just to basically prevent you from being ordained it doesn't make

00:28:01.620 any sense no it doesn't because i suppose for them to say no they'd have to be open and honest

00:28:06.500 at some point but they've never been open or honest with me even now when i sit down and have

00:28:10.080 conversations with the bishops it's all it's very political it's you know have you ever spoken to

00:28:13.920 someone where they can give you a hundred words you still don't get a meaning from it yeah i'm

00:28:18.020 like, I don't know what you're trying to tell me.

00:28:20.160 Just, you know, I try to say

00:28:21.940 what I mean, and I mean what I say. And I really

00:28:23.920 respect when other people can do that. But when they're

00:28:25.940 talking around a subject and getting more political, it tells

00:28:28.060 me they're actually a politician, and they're not a

00:28:29.820 pastoral figure. But they've never been

00:28:32.020 open and honest. At the beginning, they could have said, look,

00:28:33.840 we don't think you're a good fit for the Church of

00:28:35.980 England. We're not going to take you forward to training.

00:28:38.640 But then they might have had a discrimination

00:28:39.960 case or something. They might be afraid of that

00:28:41.920 kind of thing. But even now, they've not said, look,

00:28:44.280 we don't want you in the Church of England, or

00:28:45.920 we don't like your views. Again, it's not,

00:28:47.760 we don't like your views it's how you say them like they lie around the topic oh they say you

00:28:52.160 know come back in a year time or two years time and see if things have changed like you know my

00:28:56.460 stance on these issues you know what kind of person i am you know what i stand for you don't

00:29:00.620 seem to like any of those things i don't know if they're going to have changed in a year's time

00:29:03.820 just be honest and say we don't want people that are conservative politically or theologically in

00:29:08.680 the church we are looking to go forward as they call it in a liberal progressive way if that's

00:29:12.580 your preferred route just tell me do you think there needs to be some kind of legislation

00:29:19.260 from the government and i know that you're probably not very this is the lefty and

00:29:25.120 it is yet the government regulates regulate it um but i think it's come to a point now

00:29:33.060 why is it acceptable to discriminate against somebody with legitimate political opinions

00:29:38.280 simply because you don't share them,

00:29:40.720 but you can't discriminate against race, sex, gender,

00:29:44.220 and all of those things, which I agree with.

00:29:46.200 Why is it absolutely acceptable to disagree with somebody,

00:29:49.920 to say to somebody and discriminate against them

00:29:53.720 because they have different political opinions?

00:29:57.480 I mean, you have a good point.

00:29:58.640 I don't know the argument against it.

00:29:59.880 I've been saying for a long time

00:30:01.000 we need to get rid of the Equalities Act.

00:30:02.700 I don't like the protected characteristics idea.

00:30:05.800 But the other argument is just flood it

00:30:07.600 with more protected characteristics.

00:30:09.180 You know, political ideas could be a protected characteristic

00:30:11.460 and then people might have a defence,

00:30:13.000 as long as it's used as a defence and not as a weapon.

00:30:15.780 And, you know, Kimmy Baden-Lock's really good on this

00:30:17.200 and saying it's been used as a sword far too long.

00:30:19.400 It should be a shield.

00:30:20.600 And I get that argument,

00:30:21.560 but this is the problem with the legislation.

00:30:23.700 It's not always interpreted in the way it's intended.

00:30:26.300 Calvin, we're going to get questions from you guys in a second,

00:30:29.140 so send in the super chats if you want us to pose your questions

00:30:32.500 in a few minutes for Calvin.

00:30:33.880 But what I was going to ask you, Calvin,

00:30:35.480 is, do you think there's a problem for religion in general and for the church in particular?

00:30:39.580 Because what you're talking about as the role of religion is to articulate and pass down

00:30:45.900 certain, let's call them from your perspective, truths.

00:30:49.680 Things that are true, they are the word of God, and there's a rigid certainty to them.

00:30:56.540 Yet the world that we now live in increasingly is very subjective.

00:31:00.740 It's your lived experience, it's your feelings, it's your truth, it's your...

00:31:06.060 And so there is an inevitable contradiction between those two positions

00:31:11.040 and it seems that the church is now moving in that direction.

00:31:14.780 And you are one of the people who's going, no, no, no, that's not the role of the church.

00:31:18.260 Do you think that is the conflict at the heart of this?

00:31:20.140 I do think you're spot on there and I think that's why a lot of people are lost

00:31:23.120 because it's helpful to know that there is a universal truth that we're striving towards

00:31:26.840 or the pursuit of knowledge, whether you're Christian or Enlightenment,

00:31:30.460 it's the same angle

00:31:32.040 whereas nowadays

00:31:32.960 it is all subjective

00:31:33.880 it's you own your own truth

00:31:35.180 and if you own your own truth

00:31:36.580 you invent your own reality

00:31:37.620 that's pretty much a fantasy

00:31:40.080 but the problem there

00:31:41.020 is that you expect

00:31:41.880 everyone else

00:31:42.320 to take on board

00:31:43.040 your fantasy

00:31:43.740 and that's when we get

00:31:44.940 into cases of

00:31:45.680 so called discrimination

00:31:46.780 or offence

00:31:47.320 or hate crime

00:31:48.660 because people aren't

00:31:49.440 living in your reality

00:31:50.360 I don't think that's acceptable

00:31:51.940 but what the church

00:31:52.960 should be doing

00:31:53.540 is teaching

00:31:53.980 the objective truth

00:31:55.520 which to a Christian

00:31:57.080 is God

00:31:57.780 is Jesus Christ

00:31:58.760 but

00:31:59.440 But, you know, so many times people say to me,

00:32:01.920 the church has changed its teaching on homosexual marriage

00:32:05.460 or on abortion or whatever.

00:32:09.220 And I'll say, no, it hasn't.

00:32:10.580 The church has just stopped talking about these issues.

00:32:13.220 The teaching remains the same.

00:32:14.440 The doctrine remains the same because the Bible remains the same.

00:32:17.460 You can't change these things.

00:32:18.700 All that's happened is the church has become embarrassed about the faith

00:32:22.400 because it doesn't want to be seen as bigoted or whatever

00:32:25.360 or out of date or out of fashion.

00:32:26.800 So it stopped telling people the truth.

00:32:28.500 and now people don't know it anymore and that is such a good point because the reality is

00:32:33.280 if you're going to interpret the bible in in its most in its most literal in its most honest way

00:32:39.560 you can't possibly be woke they're fundamentally incompatible absolutely that's why we have the

00:32:45.860 problem we have because people have stopped returning to the bible including the hierarchy

00:32:49.180 of the church of england but you mentioned is this the end for the faith in general i don't

00:32:52.980 think it is i think there are many many solid christians in this country not as many as there

00:32:58.000 used to be but I think a lot of that is people are always nominally Christian and because it was

00:33:02.860 the dumb thing as a Englishman you were Christian whether you went to church or not you're just a

00:33:07.260 Christian and now it's not the dumb thing it's not the you know it's quite unfashionable to say

00:33:10.900 Christian so all those nominal Christians have moved away from they're no longer in the data

00:33:14.560 but if the actual Christians the practicing Christians still are thriving and the problem

00:33:20.840 we have is the monopoly of the Church of England because it's established you know Anglicanism

00:33:25.680 is a broader movement than just the Church of England,

00:33:28.220 but people see it as synonymous.

00:33:30.220 Now, if it was separated, church and state,

00:33:32.300 and the Church of England didn't have a hold

00:33:33.740 on all the churches and on all the institutions

00:33:35.680 and all that business,

00:33:37.360 other Anglican bodies could thrive.

00:33:39.260 And I think that would be helpful for people of this country.

00:33:41.720 As well as Roman Catholics and other denominations,

00:33:43.960 they'd have more of a foothold in the country

00:33:47.140 if it wasn't all down to the Church of England.

00:33:49.620 All right, so before we go to our audience questions, Kevin,

00:33:52.260 what is the future for you then with all of this?

00:33:54.700 because whatever people think about your views,

00:33:58.900 I don't think anyone can deny

00:34:00.100 that you're exactly the sort of person

00:34:02.240 that should have a voice in our society.

00:34:04.520 They can disagree with your views,

00:34:06.240 but I think you're intelligent.

00:34:07.560 I think you're articulate.

00:34:08.460 I think the way you communicate your ideas

00:34:10.840 is helpful rather than unhelpful,

00:34:12.660 which there's a lot of going on at the moment, right?

00:34:15.360 You have a prominent voice.

00:34:17.100 People listen to what you have to say.

00:34:18.640 Whether people agree with your views or not,

00:34:21.600 you should have a role in society,

00:34:23.540 certainly in my opinion,

00:34:24.700 So how is that going to manifest itself now?

00:34:27.720 Because this is what you want.

00:34:29.460 I know you're going to be hosting your show on GB News and you do other stuff,

00:34:33.440 but I think the church is where you want to be.

00:34:36.300 So what's the future hold for you now?

00:34:38.400 Absolutely.

00:34:38.900 So I don't feel called to full-time broadcast.

00:34:41.940 I love having a platform and I love using GB News to spread the good news,

00:34:45.280 but I don't think I'd ever be a full-time broadcaster.

00:34:47.700 I'm called to ministry, and I get to do that partly through broadcast,

00:34:51.760 but I'd love to do that in a parish setting.

00:34:53.640 And I also think there are a lot of people in this country

00:34:56.480 that feel that the Church of England has left them

00:34:58.320 rather than them leaving the church.

00:34:59.960 That's how I feel.

00:35:00.680 I feel the church has left me.

00:35:01.660 It's gone woke.

00:35:02.320 It's gone anti-Christian.

00:35:03.480 And I feel like I've stayed the same.

00:35:05.100 So what I'm going to do is plant a church in London

00:35:07.080 for people who think similarly to myself,

00:35:09.700 that want to be orthodox Anglicans.

00:35:11.880 They can come along.

00:35:12.840 We can worship together on a Sunday, have a good time,

00:35:15.600 and just be true to the faith.

00:35:18.420 All right, guys.

00:35:19.060 Well, we're going to come back with all your questions

00:35:21.300 and some more from us in a second.

00:35:23.020 but we're going to take a quick break.

00:35:24.640 We're going to do that now

00:35:25.340 and we'll see you back here in a couple of minutes

00:35:26.800 with all your questions.

00:35:29.640 Hey, Konstantin, do you want better mental health?

00:35:33.640 I'm from Russia.

00:35:34.720 We don't have mental health.

00:35:36.080 So how do you deal with mental health?

00:35:38.140 You drink vodka, then go out and wrestle bear.

00:35:41.060 If you live, you feel better.

00:35:42.960 If you die, you're not real man.

00:35:45.060 What about the bear's feelings?

00:35:46.940 It's Russian bear.

00:35:48.120 It has no feelings.

00:35:49.420 People don't always realize

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00:38:22.300 What about advertising with Trigonometry?

00:38:24.440 Why would I do that when I can advertise on ITV3

00:38:27.820 for the measly sum of 20 grand and be watched by six people?

00:38:32.740 Because Trigonometry now has over 350,000 subscribers

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00:38:42.580 and we'll promote your brand on one of our episodes.

00:38:45.640 Your advert will be written by two professional comedians.

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00:39:24.680 Hello and welcome back to the second half of the interview where you get to ask your questions

00:39:31.060 to calvin robinson that was very smooth by the way you just went you had your thumb up for about

00:39:36.120 two seconds and then you went hello and welcome back to anyway we're going to take your questions

00:39:42.160 if you want to ask a question of calvin send in the super chat we're also going to do a bunch of

00:39:46.920 questions from locals if you're not already on locals as a supporter make sure you get on there

00:39:51.080 but anyway fire away francis okay so the first one is from napoleon blown apart what does faith

00:39:56.760 offer that atheism cannot everlasting life simple as that i mean if you don't believe in something

00:40:04.140 greater than yourself um where do you get your humility from or where do you get your

00:40:07.780 accountability from but also christ offers us everlasting life in god so i think that's something

00:40:12.620 to look towards it was actually one of the points i was going to make when we were having the

00:40:17.420 conversation earlier because as a for the 50th time non-church going person the one thing that

00:40:22.740 appeals to me about a faith-based structure is the reminder that you're not the center of the

00:40:29.720 universe and that there is something above you and that is important whether you believe in

00:40:36.600 in a bearded man in the sky or not that without that human beings are lost and they you know we

00:40:44.140 find ourselves in a very dark place very quickly but if you if everything's subjective and you get

00:40:50.480 to choose your own everything and there's no truth,

00:40:53.160 then that's the only way to be, isn't it?

00:40:56.140 It's a counterbalance to a problem.

00:40:57.900 So the left tend to be very collectivist

00:41:00.180 and they depend on the state to solve all the problems.

00:41:03.480 And on the right, we tend to be more individualistic

00:41:05.820 and say the individual has their own freedoms,

00:41:08.160 their own rights and responsibilities

00:41:09.160 and their own choices to make.

00:41:10.520 But then the individual becomes the God.

00:41:13.780 And again, we are in the same problem as the left.

00:41:16.380 So the faith meets somewhere in the middle, actually,

00:41:18.620 and says we are individuals.

00:41:20.480 And we all have our own rights and responsibilities,

00:41:22.640 but we're all also obliged to take care of each other.

00:41:26.900 And it's communitarianism, isn't it?

00:41:28.400 There's a central ground there.

00:41:29.920 And I think with most arguments, there is a bit of a nuance.

00:41:32.400 And the faith provides the nuance for societal issues.

00:41:35.480 And I think that's one of the problems with our societies.

00:41:37.880 Even on the left, it's all about me.

00:41:40.080 It's all about identity, who I am.

00:41:42.680 And it's this constant focus on the self.

00:41:44.960 That just ultimately means you're going to become very miserable.

00:41:47.700 Yeah, that's just what is narcissism, isn't it?

00:41:49.380 We see that everywhere.

00:41:49.860 That's what the whole trans movement is.

00:41:51.540 That's what a lot of these issues that are arising at the moment is,

00:41:54.100 that people are putting themselves at the centre of their own universes.

00:41:57.600 They have no accountability.

00:41:58.900 They have nothing higher than themselves to humble them.

00:42:01.600 So, of course, everything just gets blown out the window.

00:42:03.740 People are very miserable, very unhappy,

00:42:05.560 and the mental health crisis is shooting through the roof.

00:42:08.700 All right.

00:42:09.260 Well, so we've got a ton of questions on locals.

00:42:12.520 So usually we just do two and put them out on locals only,

00:42:15.020 but instead we'll do a bunch from locals as well.

00:42:18.200 And we've had some super chats.

00:42:19.280 I've seen that.

00:42:20.080 Thanks, Anton.

00:42:20.620 So this one is from Short Bird, and she says, I'm going to do her question in reverse order

00:42:27.660 because the question is fairly interesting and provocative, perhaps.

00:42:30.900 But she also says, just wanted to say that although my ideas on aspects of life differ

00:42:36.180 massively from Calvin's, I really like him and wish him all the best.

00:42:39.500 He comes across as a very decent man.

00:42:42.000 Wrong.

00:42:42.640 I know.

00:42:43.560 But she does say, why does Calvin not believe in women being ordained?

00:42:49.280 What has he got against Burns, mate?

00:42:51.480 Yeah, it's not in the Bible.

00:42:53.480 The Christian faith is based on the Bible.

00:42:54.960 If it's not in the Bible, then it shouldn't be happening.

00:42:58.040 People try to make it about equality and human rights

00:43:04.040 and all that kind of stuff, but it's not about that.

00:43:06.040 So the Bible says that we are all equal,

00:43:08.320 but that doesn't mean we're the same.

00:43:09.680 We're very different.

00:43:10.360 The roles between men and women are very different.

00:43:12.400 We've seen that in recent years.

00:43:13.720 We've seen more and more men transition into women

00:43:16.960 and just destroy them at sports

00:43:18.520 It's because we're physically stronger.

00:43:19.940 There are physiological differences.

00:43:24.200 There are physiological differences between men and women.

00:43:27.800 But hold on, how does that relate to this?

00:43:29.680 Because Christ chose men to be his bishops, to be his apostles.

00:43:33.120 That was a very active choice.

00:43:34.240 Christ chose when he became Man and Connery.

00:43:37.820 He chose when to be.

00:43:39.340 He chose how to be.

00:43:40.680 Everything was on purpose.

00:43:43.120 And he had very important women in his life, the Blessed Virgin Mary.

00:43:46.700 um you know he didn't say to her you will be the first pope he chose peter that there's a reason

00:43:54.500 behind that okay so next question is actually a very good one from clank he says or they say

00:44:03.240 how should christians today find communities of people who aren't ideologically biased and are

00:44:09.160 open to intellectual discussions does this mean expanding your church beyond london

00:44:14.920 um well so the first part of the question turn off the internet the internet is is the devil's

00:44:23.220 playground the internet is why we are so siloed and tribalized and so set against each other

00:44:28.700 because we find our own little group we find people that are like us think like us and we

00:44:32.420 interact in that little echo chamber you know i'm just talking about the right as much as the left

00:44:36.080 on this because we find a comfort zone and we're not used to engaging with people that are different

00:44:40.140 to us anymore whereas the answer is to go to church you've got young and old black and white

00:44:45.100 male female it's the hub of the community it's your next door neighbors who might be in an entirely

00:44:50.280 different line of work to you from an entirely different background that's what's important

00:44:53.660 that's where you get diversity just go to good old-fashioned church turn off the internet i know

00:44:58.820 i'm saying this on a broadcast on the internet yeah don't turn it off stay stay right here but

00:45:03.660 the second part do i need to go outside of london i think i'll probably start very local i don't

00:45:08.680 everything else stream at first because i just want people to be and to come and be at least

00:45:12.600 be centered in a place eventually i might do some broadcast as well but we'll see yeah and bloody

00:45:18.200 skies on local says is the reason for the creep of wokeness in the church of england anything to do

00:45:22.600 with them now having to hire or not sack agnostic or atheist vicars he says it was rather surreal

00:45:28.440 having a conversation with the vicar that conducted my father-in-law's funeral about his lack of faith

00:45:33.540 at the village pub afterwards.

00:45:35.640 That makes me so sad.

00:45:37.240 It really does.

00:45:38.120 No vicar should,

00:45:39.440 I mean, if they do have a faith crisis,

00:45:41.260 they should see their spiritual director.

00:45:42.600 They should not be putting that onto the parishioners.

00:45:44.780 They should,

00:45:45.360 they're there to preach about God.

00:45:47.460 They're there to tell people that God is true,

00:45:49.320 God loves them,

00:45:49.900 and God is here and present with them,

00:45:51.640 an ever-living God.

00:45:53.120 So to suggest that that person,

00:45:55.000 that vicar is having a crisis,

00:45:56.680 he needs to seek help elsewhere.

00:45:59.720 That's inappropriate.

00:46:00.720 It makes me very excited to hear that.

00:46:01.860 i mean that doesn't that just say a lot though about the state that the church is in

00:46:08.420 where you've got a vicar who doesn't even believe in what he's saying so what's the point

00:46:13.220 i know i think i feel like you can get by if you don't believe if you are agnostic or even

00:46:18.140 atheist you can get by in the church it's when you're affirming the faith that they get worried

00:46:22.480 it's back to front it is completely back to front it's it's very it's just very very sad

00:46:28.840 Okay, so next question is from Cabeza de Brasil, which means...

00:46:37.760 Easy for you to say.

00:46:38.660 Yeah, it is.

00:46:39.540 It is easy for you to say.

00:46:40.740 What does it mean?

00:46:41.400 It means empty head.

00:46:44.820 Pathetic.

00:46:45.680 Okay, and the question is, who is your favourite church father and why?

00:46:51.120 And what would they say about the culture today?

00:46:55.080 Well, one of them would be Augustine.

00:46:56.960 and I don't think he'd have anything nice to say about this,

00:47:00.300 because he started the Church of England.

00:47:03.560 Aquinas was very anti-woke on a lot of these issues.

00:47:08.520 I mean, read any church father,

00:47:10.200 and they're very affirming in their Catholicity,

00:47:13.340 in their Christianity, and very counter-cultural.

00:47:17.780 Benedict, the Benedictines were, you know,

00:47:20.820 the first proper monastic movement

00:47:23.540 of living outside of the world.

00:47:25.700 so we're called to be in the world

00:47:27.620 but not of the world

00:47:28.380 and they were like

00:47:29.040 we need to set something separate

00:47:30.380 so we need to be that candle

00:47:32.160 in a dark window ledge

00:47:33.600 that people can see

00:47:34.300 and get attracted to

00:47:35.600 and know that there is an alternative

00:47:36.820 to the nasty

00:47:37.860 or horrible

00:47:39.280 secular world around them

00:47:40.920 so I don't know which one

00:47:42.460 would be my favourite

00:47:43.000 but there are lots that are inspiring

00:47:44.700 but of course

00:47:45.260 I try not to have heroes

00:47:47.640 because when you have heroes

00:47:48.820 you fall into idolatry

00:47:50.100 if there's one person to look to

00:47:52.400 it's Jesus Christ

00:47:53.160 very on brand

00:47:54.980 it is indeed i was going to say calvin do you think the church has got an image problem in that

00:48:02.620 if you make fun of another religion that is seen as punching down but we see it with stand-up for

00:48:12.280 instance if i went out and did a load of jokes on stage about islam things are going to get quite

00:48:17.740 spicy to put it mildly and not just from from muslim people it's going to be from people

00:48:23.280 in the audience

00:48:24.660 whereas if I go on stage

00:48:27.100 and do a lot of jokes about Christianity

00:48:28.920 I mean that's

00:48:29.980 it's kind of hacked

00:48:31.160 you wouldn't really get many laughs

00:48:33.880 because it's been punched at so much

00:48:35.780 it's a bit Nish Kumar isn't it

00:48:37.200 it's a bit unfunny

00:48:38.720 the bread rolls will be out

00:48:40.740 no I think you're right

00:48:42.780 it's the self-flagellation

00:48:44.640 it's because we are a Christian country

00:48:46.120 we're anti-British

00:48:47.820 we're anti-Christian

00:48:48.640 and that's appropriate

00:48:49.820 that's acceptable

00:48:50.500 because we've got such a terrible history

00:48:52.820 We need to move beyond it.

00:48:53.880 I understand there's probably been a few years of overcorrection

00:48:57.860 because we have had some horrors in our past,

00:49:00.640 but we've reached a point now we've got to come back

00:49:02.340 and the pendulum's got to swing the other way

00:49:04.300 and we've got to be proud to be British and proud to be Christians.

00:49:06.780 Not too proud because it is a sin,

00:49:08.180 but enough to be supportive and patriotic.

00:49:11.760 Yeah.

00:49:12.780 Someone called Woman on our local, so she's a bigot,

00:49:15.380 says, party time.

00:49:17.140 Imagine that it's a party.

00:49:19.180 would you rather be enjoying yourself with 10 atheists from the free speech union

00:49:23.100 or 10 Christians from the higher echelons of the Church of England?

00:49:26.720 Easy, free speech union every time.

00:49:28.240 That's what I do most of the time.

00:49:29.480 I spend time with free speech union people.

00:49:31.460 There we go.

00:49:32.460 Francis, do you want to do another super chat while I pick out some more local questions?

00:49:35.760 Okay, right. So let's see what we've got.

00:49:38.040 We have got, okay, got some more coming in.

00:49:42.740 Let's have this.

00:49:44.780 So this is Icky Icke, and he says,

00:49:46.720 So, neo-Marxists are going after freedom of speech and freedom of conscience.

00:49:50.960 Shouldn't the Church of England be worried that freedom of religion is next?

00:49:56.800 It's a great question.

00:49:57.820 And then the second part of that question is, are you worried, Calvin?

00:50:01.460 I'm very worried.

00:50:02.500 I really am.

00:50:03.420 We've seen with the conversion therapy bill, they want to ban prayer.

00:50:08.680 You know, freedom of religion is going downhill.

00:50:10.740 Conversion therapy is already legal.

00:50:12.200 You know, electrocution is already legal.

00:50:14.000 rape, corrective rape is already illegal

00:50:16.820 the only things that are additional really are therapy and prayer

00:50:20.760 and once they are in the legislative

00:50:23.600 once there are laws in our land

00:50:25.660 they will be used against us

00:50:26.920 at the moment if you have a young man for example

00:50:31.480 who's saying I want to live a life in Christ

00:50:34.180 I want to live a celibate life until I'm married to a woman

00:50:36.380 and I'm having impure thoughts

00:50:40.460 please pray for me

00:50:41.480 that would be illegal under the bill

00:50:44.200 It would be illegal for the person to pray for them.

00:50:46.940 Likewise, if you're an adult who's married...

00:50:49.900 Wait, why is that illegal?

00:50:51.200 Because it's conversion.

00:50:52.260 That's what this bill is.

00:50:53.600 It's about not being able to support people in conversion,

00:50:58.160 whether it's sexuality or transgenderism,

00:51:02.060 because it's seen as coercive.

00:51:05.060 Ah, right, okay, I see.

00:51:06.320 So they don't want people to be persuaded.

00:51:08.060 Like, this is a mass thing that's going on.

00:51:09.700 We're going around persuading people not to be...

00:51:12.040 Actually, we're sending them straight off to get their bits chopped off

00:51:16.040 and converted or giving them puberty blockers,

00:51:18.140 which I think should be illegal

00:51:19.340 because there is no such thing as a trans child.

00:51:22.600 If an adult wants to make a decision to do something with their body,

00:51:24.780 that's up to them.

00:51:25.360 But for a child, they should be supported and loved

00:51:27.640 and encouraged by their parents.

00:51:29.280 And to have their body mutilated is an offence.

00:51:32.280 It's neglect and or abuse.

00:51:34.240 But anyway, we have reached the point

00:51:36.760 where freedom of worship is being threatened in this country.

00:51:39.380 Already in Scotland, they had that bill.

00:51:40.860 I forgot what it was called now.

00:51:42.040 but you could be reported for a hate crime in your own home for preaching the gospel

00:51:48.180 if someone finds it offensive this is the way we're going

00:51:52.040 I mean it it is incredibly worrying I find that bill shocking I find that bill absolutely shocking

00:52:02.800 and the thing that I find possibly even more shocking is that there hasn't been a massive

00:52:06.340 furore about it well even worse than that a load of people signed a petition against it saying look

00:52:11.360 these are the dangers of it you're going to make it illegal for people to pray for people

00:52:14.020 or even illegal for someone to give someone therapy if they choose to take it the church

00:52:19.940 and a vast majority of the hierarchy of the church petitioned against the petitioners saying you guys

00:52:23.680 are bigots and xenophobes and racists and homophobes and transphobes it's like no we're standing up for

00:52:28.800 scripture and you guys are actually actively opposing us what is going on well calvin very

00:52:34.580 much on that point and this is a conversation that we often have in here with our chrizo friends

00:52:39.440 um ebl who's a big supporter of us she says uh how does the church of england stay relevant in

00:52:45.860 the society that has changed immeasurably over the last 50 years in terms of social norms

00:52:50.040 and how people view themselves and the world around them where does it stand firm and where

00:52:55.260 does it need to bend and this is the conversation we often have because you know some christians

00:53:00.320 have a very sort of that hard line interpret like you perhaps you know this isn't in the bible this

00:53:06.000 isn't in the bible but the church does change over time i think we'd all recognize that the

00:53:10.280 church now is not the church of a thousand years ago right for shame so you you actually think we

00:53:15.700 should go back a thousand years relevance is irrelevant it's not our job to be relevant to

00:53:20.340 the secular world around us because like i said progress isn't linear so we make mistakes you

00:53:25.000 know rome fell in the end and i feel sometimes it feels like we're at the fall of rome again

00:53:28.940 in our western society where we don't we're up is down bad is good uh right is wrong so we shouldn't

00:53:34.760 be chasing these norms we should not be trying to be relevant we should be static we should say

00:53:38.440 this these this is the faith passed down to us from the apostles who christ chose this is our

00:53:45.100 this is our universal catholic faith apostolic faith and we are here to evangelize based on

00:53:50.820 scripture not based on any anything else and we do worship we still worship things but we worship

00:53:59.980 completely different things now, don't we?

00:54:02.340 In particular, the acquirement of material goods and possessions.

00:54:05.720 People believe that if they have wealth, success,

00:54:10.000 particularly financial success,

00:54:11.440 that somehow it's going to make them happy.

00:54:12.760 Send us a super chat.

00:54:13.900 Yeah, please do.

00:54:15.100 My man was in the Bible.

00:54:16.360 Nothing is new.

00:54:17.940 We've seen it all before.

00:54:19.220 All of these issues were in the Bible.

00:54:22.260 If Jesus Christ came to us today, he'd be cancelled.

00:54:25.120 The church wouldn't accept him.

00:54:26.240 They'd think he was too controversialist.

00:54:28.080 they'd think he was too outspoken and bigoted and all of these things,

00:54:30.900 that they'd probably shout crucify him, crucify him, just as they did 2,000 years ago.

00:54:36.200 John Bryce says, do you think wokeism is now irreversible, irresistible, sorry,

00:54:41.280 or are there effective strategies for pushing back against that ideology?

00:54:44.980 I see lots of people describing wokeism, but few discussing how to actually resist it.

00:54:49.960 You know, I'll say the same thing I said last time I came on.

00:54:52.260 We all need to stand up. We don't need to stick our heads above the parapets.

00:54:55.180 Some of them will get chopped off, but that's a risk we have to take.

00:54:57.380 we have to be martyred for the cause and if we all stand up they cannot cancel all of us but

00:55:01.400 until we stand up they're going to keep pushing back and they are the vocal minority and they're

00:55:05.420 the loudest voice in the room so we need to drown them out because we are the majority

00:55:09.280 well i agree with you completely and there was a question from somebody on locals

00:55:13.440 about how you became motivated or what inspires you to do that to stick your neck out just had

00:55:21.560 enough really had enough yeah right even when i was teaching i was writing publicly about the

00:55:27.320 left-wing indoctrination that i was seeing and you know there are other people that call themselves

00:55:30.740 secret teacher or this and that and not wanted to disclose who they were i thought no i'm gonna

00:55:34.200 own this this i've truly believed what i'm seeing in schools is wrong and i'm going to put my name

00:55:38.960 on it and that's what led me to where i am today and we see of course there's this big twitter

00:55:44.160 account uh libs of tiktok or whatever which exposes what a lot of in america teachers are

00:55:50.000 saying and what they're teaching their kids is that some of i mean it probably wasn't quite as

00:55:54.800 extreme when you were teaching but is that the type of thing that you were starting to become

00:55:58.700 aware of absolutely it's abhorrent but i think if people if parents saw what was being taught in

00:56:03.680 schools they'd be going nuts but of course we just send our kids off and trust it's all going

00:56:07.760 right it's going to be rosy dory and they're just going to teach them the abcs and the ones plus

00:56:12.320 ones equals twos but no two plus two now equals five and and the teacher is telling the kids about

00:56:17.940 their own sexuality and and what underwear they're wearing today and i'm not even making this up this

00:56:22.740 a legitimate example.

00:56:25.120 What underwear they're wearing.

00:56:27.000 Yeah, there was a teacher recently that wore,

00:56:28.580 a male teacher that wore ladies underwear,

00:56:30.500 and he started a club

00:56:31.780 talking about sexuality, and he wanted to come out

00:56:34.580 to his kids as, was it pansexual?

00:56:36.660 One of these made-up sexualities, anyway.

00:56:38.680 Do you know, ten years ago, if someone had done that,

00:56:40.380 whatever their sexuality, you'd go, that's a nonce?

00:56:42.400 Yeah, it is a nonce. It's grooming.

00:56:44.800 This is a big problem in the left. There's a lot

00:56:46.560 of grooming going on. All of this

00:56:48.240 sexualising young kids is grooming.

00:56:50.640 We used to think it was illegal and nasty and wrong, and now

00:56:52.480 somehow we're supporting it as progressive.

00:56:54.360 And this is what I mean when I say progressivism isn't

00:56:56.340 literally linear. Because we're seeing

00:56:58.520 what was that play that Lawrence helped get cancelled?

00:57:01.940 Oh, the

00:57:02.380 family sex show. Yeah, the family

00:57:04.300 sex show. Those words should not go

00:57:06.300 together. It's

00:57:07.820 demonic.

00:57:11.020 Come on. The church

00:57:11.860 has a big presence. Careful now.

00:57:14.460 Calvin wouldn't want to be associated with any sort of...

00:57:16.420 What, with Cornwall?

00:57:19.060 That's a lovely place.

00:57:20.500 There's going to be at least two people having

00:57:22.220 a meltdown about this. I'm going to get someone

00:57:24.160 messaging me on Twitter. That's alright.

00:57:26.200 This question is a little

00:57:28.220 bit more left field. It's from the King's Lobotomy

00:57:30.360 and he says, can you ask

00:57:32.120 Calvin to talk about his walkout on the

00:57:36.160 now famous Oxford Union

00:57:38.500 vegan speech?

00:57:39.920 Oh my gosh. So I'm all

00:57:42.160 for open debate and I'm all for disagreeing

00:57:44.480 well, but at some point you have to say

00:57:45.860 this is lunacy. There is no

00:57:48.100 common ground to be made here. And this was what

00:57:50.140 happened. So this was Michaela Peterson

00:57:52.120 and I went there to support her.

00:57:53.180 She was debating, she's a massive carnivore,

00:57:56.220 she was debating in favour of eating meat

00:57:57.800 against some vegans and most of the arguments were sound.

00:58:01.040 I don't agree with them, but they were sound arguments.

00:58:03.620 And this woman got up, I can't remember her name

00:58:05.660 or where she's from, but she said that eating meat

00:58:08.660 is colonialist, white supremacy, racist, sexist.

00:58:13.300 Is there another historicism I missed out?

00:58:15.260 There's always another one.

00:58:16.220 It was all of them.

00:58:16.960 And I was like, I cannot engage with you.

00:58:20.540 this is not realistic.

00:58:23.840 You're living in a fantasy world.

00:58:25.580 There's nothing to be gained from listening to this lunacy.

00:58:28.380 I just got up and walked out.

00:58:30.020 I spoke to Jordan Peterson afterwards.

00:58:31.860 He was laughing his head off at it.

00:58:33.000 Obviously, he had to stay in support of Michaela.

00:58:34.940 But there has to come a point where you say, enough is enough.

00:58:37.980 I'm not going to entertain your lunacies anymore.

00:58:41.700 You're not in the real world.

00:58:43.400 And that was one of those examples.

00:58:45.640 And Cameron, we've got a question from our big supporters, Rez and Pez.

00:58:49.260 and i think it's she that says mr robinson will atheist be welcome in your church would be quite

00:58:56.000 happy to debate the old testament teachings as an ex-born again christian now i warn you

00:59:00.700 ronnell is pretty feisty so i love it everyone is welcome in my church church should be welcome

00:59:06.540 and inclusive to everybody but welcome what about non-christians everybody but they're welcome to

00:59:11.780 be changed through an experience with christ that's that is true inclusivity it's not about

00:59:16.520 watering down my values or the church's values or christian values to make anyone else feel

00:59:20.140 comfortable or do not offend people they are welcome to come but they're welcome to become

00:59:24.760 to be joined and changed through an experience in christ a mycroft by the way says please just

00:59:29.380 send love and support for our calvin you're like the nhs man every thursday we're gonna bang some

00:59:35.360 pots and pans for you and punished opinions as well uh with the two quid super chat says what

00:59:40.980 of the problem of apostolic succession in church i have no idea what that means but

00:59:44.680 That is another issue. So the way that Christ chose the apostles, because it's a faith rooted

00:59:50.940 in tradition. So the Bible is the word of God, but the Bible comes from tradition. It comes from

00:59:55.540 many different stories put together. And it was told through word of mouth before it was written

01:00:01.020 down. And as the apostles started to die out, we started to get these things written down.

01:00:05.700 But the apostles have handed this tradition down to us in form of the Bible and other

01:00:09.520 practiced in tradition.

01:00:12.300 Now, when someone is consecrated a bishop,

01:00:16.300 it's said that it's handed down from the apostle

01:00:19.440 to the next person, to the next person, to the next person.

01:00:20.920 That's the lineage.

01:00:21.600 That's apostolic succession.

01:00:23.200 And that's broken when we ordain a woman

01:00:26.860 because it's not a valid order,

01:00:28.700 because women can't be priests or bishops.

01:00:31.580 There's plenty of leadership roles for women,

01:00:33.500 but being a priest in persona Christi,

01:00:36.300 in the person of Christ, is not legitimate.

01:00:38.700 and not valid, therefore apostolic succession

01:00:41.280 is being broken in this country.

01:00:42.900 And then if a woman bishop ordains a man,

01:00:45.840 that man would not be validly ordained

01:00:47.500 in many people's eyes.

01:00:48.900 So it's quite problematic.

01:00:52.080 Well, there we go.

01:00:54.300 I think we'll wrap up there.

01:00:56.120 Calvin, thanks for coming back.

01:00:57.820 All the best to you with what you're doing

01:01:00.260 and the new church.

01:01:03.340 Thank you.

01:01:03.880 I think there's a lot of people

01:01:05.700 who are looking for something

01:01:06.860 that's untainted by ideology at this point.

01:01:09.220 Because the one thing I suppose I would imagine

01:01:11.480 is even in the way that you conduct yourself,

01:01:14.600 you would be welcoming of people with different opinions

01:01:16.720 and you wouldn't be excluding them.

01:01:18.880 And I think there's quite a lot of people

01:01:20.240 who there's an appetite for that, let's say.

01:01:23.060 There's an appetite for it in terms of conversations on YouTube

01:01:25.880 and I'm sure there's an appetite for that

01:01:27.360 in terms of the religious space as well.

01:01:29.280 So all the best of luck to you.

01:01:30.800 I'm sorry you've had this experience,

01:01:32.000 but I know you'll come out of it stronger and better.

01:01:35.380 So thanks for coming back on the show.

01:01:36.860 And we look forward to seeing you again.

01:01:38.460 And thank you guys for watching and listening.

01:01:40.680 We'll be back with Raw in literally a couple of hours,

01:01:43.540 the first one since we've been away.

01:01:45.280 So we'll see you in a couple of hours.

01:01:46.780 Take care and see you soon.

01:01:48.100 God bless.

01:01:53.580 I love shopping for new jackets and boots this season.

01:01:56.440 And when I do, I always make sure I get cash back with Rakuten.

01:02:00.640 And it's not just fashion.

01:02:02.040 You can earn cash back on electronics, beauty, travel, and more

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01:02:08.400 It's so easy to save that I always shop through Rakuten.

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01:02:17.020 Download the Rakuten app or sign up at rakuten.ca.

01:02:20.480 That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N dot C-A.

TRIGGERnometry - May 30, 2022

Cancelled by Woke Church of England - Calvin Robinson

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