Cancelled Comedian Speaks Out - Nick Dixon
Episode Stats
Words per minute
219.76306
Harmful content
Misogyny
5
sentences flagged
Toxicity
54
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Hate speech
22
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Summary
Nick Dixon is a stand-up comedian, writer, podcaster and friend of Francis and Conner's. He has been on the BBC's new comedy show 'Mash Report' and has been a regular on the comedy circuit for a good 10 years. In this episode, Nick talks about his return to comedy after a long break, what it's like being on the show, why he doesn't do comedy anymore and why he thinks there's a growing divide in live comedy.
Transcript
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Great to be back at London's foremost Nazi comedy night.
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I don't know if you've followed certain sections of the media,
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but this is where all the hip, young Nazis hang out, so that's cool.
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If Hitler came back, this is what he'd do, by the way,
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he'd start a monthly comedy night on a Tuesday.
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He'd warm me up with a few dick jokes and bam, hit you with the juice stuff.
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Hello and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster. I'm Constantine Kissing.
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And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.
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Our brilliant guest today is a comedian and a friend of ours from Comedy Circuit Days, Nick Dixon. Welcome to the show.
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It's great to have you on. Listen, we obviously know you very well, but for anyone who doesn't know you, tell everybody a little bit about who you are, how are you, where you are, what has been the journey through life that leads you to be sitting here talking to us?
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wow the journey okay i'm nick dixon i'm a comedian uh and i do things like gb news
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write for spiked but talk radio all the things that the comedy world hates i do them all and
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um the journey to know i just uh i started doing comedy 10 years ago doing open mics like everyone
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else with mentally ill people and then i um and then you moved up to the circuit with mentally
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with other mentally ill people getting paid slightly more yeah yeah and that's how it works
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So, yeah, it's just different levels, isn't it?
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But listen, the reason we wanted to get you on,
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I haven't been doing any comedy for the last two years.
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but, again, hasn't really been doing the circuit.
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has given me like a layman's perspective almost where i'm like looking on twitter or turning on
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the tv once in a blue moon and seeing like new the new version of the mash report and just going
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like the question i think a lot of our audience have in their mind is like why is comedy on tv
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so shit yeah well i know what you mean it's there's this there's this divide now isn't there
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between i'll tell you what there's a really interesting thing the other night we were doing
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some of the comedians are good but it's the criticism would be why are people on there
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are they good enough to be on there and then you've got us over here trying to do our thing
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and there's criticism of both of them but that's this weird divide in live comedy where people
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like you say people think the comedy on bbc is a bit rubbish so we're trying to do something
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different but to be fair i'm trying to be really fair there are actually some good comedians on
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that as well i wasn't saying there aren't brilliant comedians on the bbc what i'm saying is
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the standard of some of the things that you see on there is very low way too low for a production
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with that sort of budget with access to every comedian that they could possibly want they don't
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seem to be picking the best is all i'm saying in every position it's like a football team that's
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got a great striker but the defense is useless for example right i mean yeah i know you mean
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i've been in i've been in huge trouble for suggesting that we should just pick comedians
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because they're using other criteria to select them.
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i genuinely don't know uh all i see if in my own experience and this is again i maybe i was a
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little bit too full on when i said oh it's shit and whatever some of it is shit but my main thing
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is i'm seeing people on tv that when i used to run a comedy club would email me in to ask for
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an open spot and i would say you're not quite ready yeah and i'm seeing those people now on
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television yeah and they haven't really improved right so the question i think for me is how has
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that happened but for an ordinary person who just watches tv and thinks that's what comedy is i think
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they're asking themselves how is this happening yeah yeah and it's obviously because there are
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other criteria there might be other reasons they get picked other than their ability then they've
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got the right agent you know they're the right flavor of the month type thing whatever the
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reasons are and i'm sort of you can tell i'm slightly reluctant to speculate on them because
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I got cancelled for doing almost exactly that quite recently it is still quite recent so I still I'm
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still feeling that pain so I'm kind of being a bit cautious on saying what the reasons are but we can
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all imagine what they may be but they're not always who the best comedians are some of them are and
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then they get through and then you can play if you complain about it like well what about this guy
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and they cite one person yeah who is like is actually good and you're like oh yeah fair enough
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so you know you can you sound you sound bitter talking about it and I'm not busy because I'm
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not even trying to get on that stuff. But yeah, there's definitely a lowering of quality on the
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BBC. And they've seen it in the viewing figures. Apollo used to be a big deal, didn't it, with
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Michael McIntyre. Everyone watched it. Now it's something that is on BBC2, isn't it? And barely
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anyone watches it. Well, certainly the viewing figures have gone through the floor. Why do you
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think there are certain acts who are genuinely, legitimately brilliant that we see week in, week
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out and they do very very well but television isn't interested in them they don't even get a
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sniff of it yeah they're not seen as sort of viable it tends to be older acts who have been
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going on time they're very good but they're not new they're not they're not cool and they're not
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got the right agent and they're not the right you know they might not be diverse whatever it is so
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that's what it comes down to mainly isn't it and um and a lot of people notice this difference
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between uk and america where in america they seem to respect comics who've been going along
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time who are really good and we don't have that we just don't have that we don't actually respect
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stand-up as a medium in this country it's not the end of the world i'm not going to write an open
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letter but you know we just don't respect it we've seen with norm mcdonald people like that we've seen
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louis ck before the incident or the respect bill burr the respect that people have for comedians
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in america for stand-up it's an american medium so they have massive respect for stand-ups who've
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been going a long time and like really good and like killers and it's all about are you are you
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killer in the clubs we just don't have that here we don't have any respect for that I don't think
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and why do you why do you think that is why do you think we don't respect the people who've been
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doing it for donkey's years who then are just master craftsmen at what they do yeah I don't
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know I generally just think it's we just don't understand the medium in America there's a
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tradition going from like Richard Pryor onwards this kind of confessional medium it's an American
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medium we just don't have that I don't know where stand up in this country I'm not sure where it
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comes from it's a mixture of like music hall working men's clubs and then there's like the
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Oxford satire tradition there's these different traditions but we just don't seem to respect
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stand-up we don't I don't think we really know what it is I don't think TV but they discovered
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what it is with Michael McIntyre I don't think they really get it and I don't I don't think they
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get what great comedy is and that actually the audience would love to see these people we've
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all seen in the clubs who smash it who are older probably they'd love to see them the audience but
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they just don't get a chance because tv people are only interested in who the new cool person is
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it's interesting because we talk about representation a lot and we were just
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talking about this here in the studio before you came but actually like someone a comedian that
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nobody watching this will have heard of like jeff innocent is is an older white guy right
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he he represents way more people than i don't know a russian immigrant or whoever else but
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But me being on that would be considered diversity,
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whereas him wouldn't, or would be considered representation.
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There's a big constituency there that I would argue
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is probably underserved by what's happening at the moment.
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Yeah, yeah, because, I mean, reality is it's something
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He would probably talk to loads of people in a country,
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but, yes, but he wouldn't be allowed on, probably.
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So that's why we get things like other channels, isn't it?
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Probably like GB News and all these other channels,
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because the BBC is arguably not serving people,
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and we're all giving them money to do it, right?
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I'm saying there's other people in the country,
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you just don't let anyone in when they come to the door.
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It's such a bizarre thing to try and explain, isn't it,
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You have to pay it, yeah, even if you don't want to watch it.
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Well, it used to be you could go to jail, allegedly,
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And they always end up carting some old granny off to the court
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and putting her up there because she hasn't had the money
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Yeah, I just find that bonkers. I mean, you're trying to explain that to people. You have to pay this. And what's really extra weird is that all the comedians and people on the BBC then berate the audience for being Brexit voting scum. And it's like, they're paying your wages. Isn't that strange?
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Well, I've got to be so careful because there's still a very tiny chance I might get on one day, but I almost certainly won't at this point. Am I in favour of it? I'm not in favour of the license fee model. I think it's anachronistic.
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but I don't see how the license fee can work in 2021.
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When you look at all the different competitors,
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when you look at Amazon, when you look at Netflix,
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you know, that they've done that I disagree with.
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But there's things that every organisation has done
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sees the start of GB News as the coming of the Fourth Reich
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so they'll fucking know about it in the industry.
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I've seen you on there once on I think Mark's show.
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The outrage about GB News and all the boycotting and all this stuff,
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it's actually just an incredibly liberal channel, isn't it?
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Well, if you look at the old school meaning of the term liberal,
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then I would argue that, yes, it is incredibly liberal.
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They try and have a plurality of views on there.
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you know you get all different genders races etc etc yeah i'll turn on i'll be like i'll turn on to
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the dreaded gb news and it's three gay guys and a trans person discussing like vaccine passports
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openly i'm like what's the problem here guys what have i missed it's like this is not this far right
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channel you know that and i actually think that they kind of know this this is one of my little
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theories is they they know that it's not actually that bad but but a certain part of society it
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just screams loudly if the overton window tries to get pushed an inch to the to another side you
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know i mean they're like no no and they scream that loudly because they don't want any change
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was actually if it was if it was really i almost think if it was really bad it would be allowed
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if you notice how like people like richard spencer seem to be like allowed like they stay on twitter
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these quite extreme figures whereas something like gb news which is actually not extreme at all
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it was just meant to be an alternative to the bbc that isn't quite meeting its remit they all scream
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about it i almost think it's because it's quite moderate that it's actually more of a threat
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because it actually might appeal to a whole section of society
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I mean, if it's got these terrible viewing figures,
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It's like, why are you talking about it every day then?
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i mean i also think that you're tweeting because you're on it he's i mean it's it's also the fact
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that i think outrage is just it's rewarded in the current climate if you're outraged about something
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it's going to get the views the clicks the whatevers um and obviously gb news had some
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issues with the launch to put it mildly so that that would have contributed but listen let's go
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back to talking about you a little bit because you mentioned uh being cancelled so to speak
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yeah uh what happened what did you say nick did you did you say that we need more nazi comedy or
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that was it yeah yeah i made a big push for nazi comedy
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where every punchline is it yours yeah yeah they'll just clip that out now all my haters like
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see um what i did i did a terrible terrible thing guys i um someone messaged me a fan a fan if you
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like someone tried to get me on a gig which I didn't ask for but they just said out of the
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kindness of their own heart then they sent me the message and said oh I tried to get you on this gig
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but here's what the guy said and the guy had said something like I like Nick or I'm aware of Nick
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he said I'm aware of but quite a big difference he exists uh I believe I believe he exists but
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but we we're we're not really booking too many straight white men and he said something like I
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should have got the exact phrase but he said something like for want of a better not that
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we're going he said I'm we're kind of looking for the opposite and he goes and when I say opposite
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I don't necessarily mean a gay disabled black woman in a wheelchair or something like that
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this was it this was not my quote by the way this was his so he goes we're looking for the opposite
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and we're not really looking for that and I just thought this is a bizarre message and kind of
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funny so I just shared it with all identifying information taken out right so you couldn't find
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out who this guy was I just crossed out any possible thing because I'm not in the business
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when I'll be judged on the content of my character
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So it was a wry allusion to Martin Luther King.
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But I thought this will get like 40 likes, which it did.
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I was like, I received this, pretty funny, you know, nothing.
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the daily express picked it up and then i was like oh so i said a couple of things to them
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foolishly thinking well i'll just say something and then of course it comes out in a crude sort
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of tabloidy way and like well i didn't mean it like that and then and it was the headline like
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something nick dixon says white men can't do comedy yeah exactly exactly yeah straight white
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man complains that straight white men aren't getting straight white gigs or something like
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that it was just something ridiculous and I'm like oh and then I was like oh because I thought
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should I do this nine times out of ten I would say no it's not worth it then I just thought let's
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just see what happens definitely found out the answer to that but so stuff happened so then so
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then the the telegraph get in touch with me I'm like oh the telegraph now and I'm like I'm not
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going to talk to him I'm just not going to talk to anyone and my mate said well they'll just print
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it anyway which they did then i get a message the next day you're on the jeremy vine show i'm like
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oh it's on jeremy vine but no not saying and they're defending you which would have been the
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key piece of information i just got you're now on jeremy vine so it's just escalating and i'm going
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oh apparently they were defending me and jeff norcott was on there like a legend defending me
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so actually all both the papers and the and the show defended me but yeah it's just it was just
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this escalating thing that i don't know if you've been in one of these things you probably have but
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they get out of control i have you've been in one yeah you know how it just escalates and and you're
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just thinking what now and you can't really handle it i didn't know how to handle it because you're
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just one person and the whole whole suddenly the whole comedy industry is attacking me it's a
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national news story my tweet it's absurd and it just and you don't really know how to handle it
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i sort of had a stress response because how can your body really process what's going on and even
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though logically i'm like this is just happening on the internet and i had everything muted
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logically that's the case but but sort of physiologically i was sort of freaking out it
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was half me to sleep and stuff because it was like it was really stressful because i had comedians
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messaging me are you okay you ever had that regularly yeah are you okay in a very different
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way i saw the last interview on trigonometry are you okay yeah are you sure yeah when i mean used
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to be such a nice guy yeah yeah one guy messaged me then another friend of ours actually messaged
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been i thought this guy never asks if i'm okay i won't even say it as well i was like this is
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there must be a problem do you know what i mean and another friend just goes oh it's just because
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i saw the chortle piece i'm like the what and i hadn't even read it so actually what i've admitted
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to mention and this is i don't get too in the weeds of comedy but there's this comedy website
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called short blog blog yeah there's a comedy blog called chortle i can tell you guys love it already
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and um it's everything was fine until they picked it up so actually everyone ignored that express
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piece they completely ignored it it was only when the when short said hey guys look at this idiot
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that we can attack now which was probably specifically done for that purpose so then
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the whole comedy industry attacked me and then i got all the comedians saying are you okay and some
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quite big comedians attacked me including ones that i'd always been nice to and about my whole
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life and i got on with them one of them had even given me a nice quote about my comedy and then
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he threw me under the bus to nearly 400 000 people which i thought was interesting and this
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is somebody who goes on about mental health awareness all the time and even someone who
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admitted they were suicidal because their tv show got cancelled and they got attacked a few years
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ago and i'm like but now you're doing it to me i'm like that blows my mind that someone can do that
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the lack of empathy you know i mean from the hashtag be kind brigade yeah so nick
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what i don't really i mean i think for a lot of people watching i don't think they really would
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understand what what what what you've done wrong there you pointed out that somebody who who books
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comedy had said i know that nick is exists and aware of him i'm aware of him and presumably that
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he's good at comedy but i won't book him because of his demographic characteristics right is that
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what they basically said that's what they said and you made people aware that that had happened
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so what have you what what boundary have you crossed there like where's the right wing bigotry
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and what you've done there is what i'm trying to get at right right and that's the interesting
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thing no one has been able to ascertain what i did wrong that's what i'm and everyone's who
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everyone normal who's looked at it like normal mean not in comedy has looked at it and gone
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what did you actually do yeah and i've gone great question great question i talked about
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on talk radio and Mark Dolan he's like what have you done the only offensive part comes from the
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promoter who's written gay disabled woman in a wheelchair it's like you haven't said that I'm
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like I know so it's like what have I actually done mine was the old-fashioned liberal notion
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that we should be we should be judged as individuals call me naive right but I was
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saying that if you had two gay comics on a bill for example let's say Andrew Doyle Scott Capura
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just two examples we might know I would never say oh it's two gay people they can't be on the bill
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because I would just see them as completely different acts, right?
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Well, they've done completely different styles from the start.
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because it's about the individual persona, right?
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but that now gets you called a bigger online by a lot of people.
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i muted like i say as much of it as i could but one sentence i did get i did see one thing that
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said yes nick dixon is a bigger but and i was like i'm sorry what and it's like i just couldn't
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believe it because i'm just going that's someone defending yeah yeah yeah i know there was a but
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yeah yeah and it was like but the sentence almost didn't make sense to me after a few days of not
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sleeping and looking at all this stuff you're going like it almost the words didn't even make
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sense because you see your name taken so out of context and everyone knows i'm just a nice guy
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everyone knows that and i'm seeing this going nick dixon is a big i'm just going who is this guy
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nick dixon so i it was so divorced from reality and it got so out of hand but i was like what
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was bigoted in what i said i just couldn't figure it out i was even i was saying let's just base it
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on merit and let everyone like i made it maybe as a crass analogy i was like look at the england
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football team it's merit and it ends up very diverse naturally because it's merit that was
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my argument but i still don't see what's so bad about that so let's talk what we're actually
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talking about nick because there's something underneath this conversation that we all know
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is there okay and we don't want to address which is what you really pointed out is comedy is not
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a meritocracy much like the media much like anything else and people's identity has become
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an important part of whether you're considered fit for a particular job was that is that a fair
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description yeah yeah yeah and you pointed this out and i think there are two things going on and
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tell me what you think about this number one is there are a lot of people who've bought into the
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idea that because people like you who look like you not like you but who look like you used to
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be on the tv quite a lot that now means that you should not be given opportunities and other people
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who don't look like you who didn't have opportunities in the past now should be given
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opportunities. So there's a group of people who just think we need to flip the discrimination
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that used to happen, right? Number one. Number two, there's also a lot of comedians who do look
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like you, but most comedians look like you, let's be honest, because blokes tend to be more attracted
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to comedy and blah, blah, blah as a career, who know this is happening, who feel bad about what's
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happening, but they have spent their whole career pretending it doesn't exist. And so when you say
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there is discrimination which is what you're really saying people are being picked not only
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on on their on their skill set they then feel like well i've been suppressing this shit my
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whole life and this guy has now said it and now he makes all of us look bad because we've all been
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suppressing it this whole time and they get angry at that too that's my interpretation so you've got
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these two groups which both are angry with you the first group is angry with you for pointing out
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that discrimination is probably not a good thing.
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because they've been pretending this whole time
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Well, one is the fact that you can make the argument
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that you've pointed out there of it's been one way,
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without calling me a bigot and a shit comic, I think.
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00:24:26.760
because uh you know that's neither here nor there whether i'm any good or not or what my views are
0.85
00:24:31.760
you can make that argument that's fine just make it calmly so so i don't necessarily i think that's
00:24:36.440
fine if that's what you believe the second point is is more sort of complex which is
00:24:41.600
the people who have known it was like that for years so the people that attacked me
00:24:46.180
one comic sort of mocked me and referenced the fact that there are lots of straight white men
00:24:51.680
on tv and he listed a series of people who have been on since the 90s i'm like yeah mate i know
00:24:56.380
you're on the tv you're a millionaire it's well done his defense was well we're doing well it's
00:25:00.580
like yeah we what happened is there was all these straight white men on tv there was probably too
00:25:05.440
many of it was it was just them they if anyone were the ones keeping other people out now they
00:25:10.220
said right now we've got to have diversity so a generation of people of my generation it's like
00:25:16.060
no we can't have you now but they're still keeping all the old white guys they haven't gone anywhere
1.00
00:25:20.640
you know it's kind of like if the england football team still had gary linica in it
00:25:23.560
do you know what I mean they're they're still all there and they're like no we're keeping our spots
00:25:27.700
but but now we're changing the rules so yeah so those guys are very sensitive because they know
00:25:32.060
that they they're trying to keep hold of their spot which I think is what you're implying so
00:25:35.680
they're the last people that want to change anything and then and then I when it comes down
00:25:40.880
to me pointing it out I wasn't even really pointing pointing out I was merely reporting
00:25:45.400
on something that had happened to me which is a key thing as well I was just sharing something
00:25:49.360
that had been sent to me that was it really i wasn't even making this massive point then in
00:25:53.780
the well i mean he did bring up martin luther king man so let's be honest but that was a joke
00:25:58.320
that was a joke remember jokes it was a it was at least it was at least a wry comment you know i
00:26:03.960
wasn't seriously comparing it i think you were making a point which is a legitimate point to
00:26:08.760
make but i was making it in a light-hearted way yeah of course and then in the paper it sounded
00:26:12.420
a bit more serious and the funny thing is like nick nickson just bitter he can't get work it's
00:26:16.760
like guys i left one of the best live agents in the country i barely want to do gigs out of london
00:26:20.620
i've been desperate to not have work for ages i've been refusing work because it's annoying to go to
00:26:24.980
leeds but but everyone's like he's just bitter he can't get work that's the accusation against
0.95
00:26:28.700
whenever you make a point like that it's just immediately they attack you and say he's rubbish
00:26:33.120
at comedy and he's bitter and he's a bigot it's like and the idea by the way that i'm
0.97
00:26:37.100
calling me shit at comedy is a great insult when i've done nearly 2 000 gigs i've done gigs in
0.97
00:26:42.120
preston frog and bucky you don't come out of that thinking you're amazing do you know i mean no
0.98
00:26:46.680
comic is just there thinking well i'm just amazing like because you do so many hard gigs
00:26:50.300
you have a very realistic idea like some days i think i'm amazing if i have a great gig and the
00:26:54.400
next day i think i'm terrible but you are a very good comic there's no denying that and we'll make
00:26:58.120
sure we put a little clip of you at the top of the video so people can see you are a very good
00:27:01.720
comic well thanks man i mean that that's up to people to judge but that is completely irrelevant
0.93
00:27:05.560
to the argument i think he's just he's just shit it's like that's not really the point guys
0.58
00:27:10.280
anyway and everyone knows it happens the thing i pointed out yeah everyone knows it whether you
0.97
00:27:14.660
like it or not agree with it everyone knows it happens that's why i think people are so sensitive
00:27:18.300
about it like how can he admit this happens but everyone i know has had some incident where they've
00:27:23.400
been refused something because of these other characteristics other than their ability so why
00:27:27.580
is it taboo then why is it taboo to then go this thing that we all know happens happens but why is
00:27:33.520
it that we you know that the moment someone makes a tweet about it makes a comment about it references
00:27:39.440
is it they get shouted down they get you know piled on they all the rest of it why does that
00:27:44.880
happen yeah it's a great question it's just because it's just like you said it's just a
00:27:48.740
taboo topic especially to say that you're white it just race is just such a taboo topic now isn't
00:27:54.700
it you can't even say well it also by the way and and and the requisite self-awareness was lacking
00:28:00.920
in the paper in the article i did but no one cares about the plight of the straight white
0.81
00:28:06.000
male comedian let's be honest straight away that's an absurd it sounds ridiculous doesn't it
1.00
00:28:10.620
because it's not it's not that high on the list of the world's problems like guys I'm struggling
0.95
00:28:14.820
here as a straight white male comedian when's my time you know it does sound ridiculous and yet
00:28:20.060
it is happening to loads of people but it's just a very unsympathetic plight to talk about and the
00:28:26.280
other thing that happens with me is people think oh well he's he's from public school or grammar
0.86
00:28:30.660
school it's like no no I went to a shit comprehensive state school in the north but
0.64
00:28:36.060
apparently people don't think that about me because I can talk properly or something you know
0.94
00:28:39.880
they don't expect northerners to be able to read and stuff so there's this extra level this is what
00:28:44.540
I realized there's this extra level everyone assumes I'm this thing I'm not and Andrew Doyle
00:28:49.200
has it all the time he gets called a right-wing public school straight white man who cut he's
00:28:54.400
like he's a gay left-wing guy from a comprehensive school and so you get there's this image of me
00:28:59.300
out there i'm like he's worked incredibly hard right to get academic qualifications to become
00:29:04.460
a great comedian he's one of the hardest working people you ever meet true andrew true he is and
00:29:09.160
exactly and i'm not but but i've made some effort but yeah but this you get this idea and that's
00:29:15.260
particularly unsympathetic if people think you're a sort of right-wing public school boy which i'm
00:29:29.660
and we have returned from successful day bear hunting.
00:29:49.260
They're like a combination of Nine Inch Nails, Radiohead, and Alice in Chains.
00:29:54.400
This sounds good. We must have them headline Bearfest in Russia.
00:29:57.860
Support truly independent music by joining their free fan community.
00:30:04.020
Sign up at go.elitefitria.com and get a free merch bundle
00:30:11.080
that includes an autographed photo, fridge magnet, stickers, guitar picks, and secret bonus gift.
00:30:19.260
do you think that part of it is this class that the reason you know that you got piled on the
00:30:27.460
reason that a lot of people get piled on is if it's you know people who come from and they're
00:30:33.100
not oxbridge educated etc etc and if they question the narrative it's somehow more acceptable to pile
00:30:40.320
on yeah yeah i do think there's an element of that i think if you're just if you're just not
00:30:44.460
really known like i'm basically unknown and so for a famous comedian to attack me it's so easy
00:30:50.880
isn't it it's just so easy and it doesn't lose anything they gain a few virtue points from the
00:30:56.080
industry or a few likes on twitter and they can destroy my week but and they can make my life a
00:31:01.380
lot harder but there's no there's no loss for them because you're just beating up on an unknown
00:31:05.980
person it's bullying basically used to be called bullying that's all it is but it's very easy isn't
00:31:10.400
it so why have we come to a place where bullying has become virtuous where dogpiling someone
00:31:15.720
destroying their reputation is now seen as a morally correct thing to do when when i was a
00:31:20.980
primary school teacher if kids did that you'd be like well that's bullying yeah yeah i know
00:31:25.640
yeah i know that is that is the shocking thing people can bully online while putting hashtag
00:31:33.100
be kind and they're the good people that is that really bothered me at the time i was like these
00:31:37.340
are the good people allegedly and they're just not but it is here's a really this is me being
00:31:42.200
really fair it is quite easy to join a pylon on twitter and even accidentally because i after
00:31:48.460
that happened to me i was like right i'm gonna get really strict about what i tweet to make sure i'm
00:31:53.100
not anything like these people but i basically stopped tweeting because i realized it's the way
00:31:57.660
the medium is even if you quote tweet someone even if you take a photo some people maybe deserve it
00:32:02.740
matt hancock or someone but even him i was like you know government officials maybe deserve it
0.99
00:32:07.220
but it's like it's so easy for you to just quote tweet someone go look at this idiot
0.97
00:32:11.360
but then if a thousand people have done that that's gonna be a very hard day for them but
0.92
00:32:15.780
you don't think about it it's just two seconds this sounds like some sort of uh advert now
00:32:20.860
doesn't it for like mental health awareness or something we should be playing like soft piano
00:32:24.660
music under this i'm like guys think about what you're tweeting yeah make it black and white as
00:32:28.480
well yeah yeah there'll be a picture of you just in the kitchen making it we've all tweeted something
00:32:33.780
don't really think about it yeah but you know what i mean it's very easy to join so i become
00:32:38.300
ultra aware of not being like that myself and i'm not like that but i don't even be one percent like
0.72
00:32:42.300
that because these people are scum come on these be kind people it just blows my mind like i said
0.78
00:32:49.300
this comedian i won't necessarily name you can all do your research but to go on about mental
0.98
00:32:54.340
health awareness i almost messaged him i was like what have i done to you why did you do this because
00:32:59.280
I was just so baffled because I've been nice to my whole career.
00:33:01.580
I was like, why would you set nearly 400,000 people on me?
00:33:09.720
And then I just thought, no, we'll have a charity boxing match one day.
00:33:15.180
It's funny you mentioned boxing because the point I was just about to make
00:33:17.900
is I was talking to somebody who's quite help in the publishing industry
00:33:20.800
the other day, and I was asking them how they manage this sort of thing
00:33:24.480
because in publishing it's very common for people to get piled on
00:33:27.380
and people get told, well, we're not publishing this book
00:33:29.660
because it's got problematic opinions or whatever.
00:33:32.000
And he made the point, which I thought was very astute,
00:33:34.460
that people choose to get upset about different things.
00:33:44.100
and they demand that that book is cancelled and whatever.
00:33:53.680
And I think your situation actually speaks very well
00:33:57.040
to that point, which is people don't actually care that you've done something wrong in real
00:34:02.760
life. What they care about is you've exposed the system that they support. You've exposed the
00:34:09.720
ideological system that they are on board with. And you're pointing out the flaw in it, wryly as
00:34:16.740
you did, comedically as you did, highlights that the system is flawed. And that is dangerous,
00:34:23.260
It's much more dangerous than being a convicted rapist in their mind.
00:34:38.680
And that's why it's so serious and so hysterical.
00:34:42.540
Imagine they could just make their argument calmly, though.
00:34:47.460
I mean, but you're saying it because I'm pushing the buttons of the...
00:34:54.640
Well, my opinion is that the ideology is based on a lot of emotion, a lot of we wish the
00:35:00.520
world was perfect or we need to do this and we need to do that.
00:35:03.220
And they've talked themselves into doing a lot of things which are blatantly wrong and
00:35:07.080
unfair, but they have to pretend that that's equity or whatever the word is nowadays.
00:35:13.200
And so they can't calmly defend that because there is no rational defense for it.
00:35:25.120
And yeah, that's the weird thing about ideology, isn't it?
00:35:27.080
You end up supporting the ideology for its own sake.
00:35:29.960
And then all the tenets that were supposed to go into it
00:35:37.980
It must be based in things like compassion and empathy,
00:35:40.760
especially for the underdog or the underclass or something.
00:35:44.040
And then somehow that leads to attacking me online
00:35:46.940
how is that in line with that what have i done you know i mean just some unknown comedian
00:35:51.700
from a state school and it doesn't really make any sense but yeah it's all done in the name of
00:35:56.180
like say something like equity yeah well you are the enemy of the ideology and the ideology will
00:36:01.000
deliver compassion therefore if you oppose it you must be destroyed and you deserve no compassion
00:36:05.300
because you're threatening the world view the ideology amazing just with a little tweet yeah
0.84
00:36:10.860
the comedy world it's mad isn't it comedy world dangerous man nick yeah it's so strange isn't it
00:36:16.340
i know like you said like the audience probably don't care too much about the details of the
00:36:19.300
comedy industry but it has got very weird hasn't it yeah it used to just be comedy you were funny
00:36:25.260
or not and now it's this whole well i suppose in england since the 80s it was i suppose it was
00:36:30.800
left wing wasn't it was against thatcher and stuff but even then it didn't seem anything like
00:36:34.660
like it is now no it didn't it doesn't seem that we have transgressive comedians anymore
00:36:40.320
You know, comedians on TV, you'd think to yourself,
00:36:44.720
If you take the American example, you know, someone like Chris Rock or Bill Burr,
00:36:50.060
you know, you can name lots of American comedians.
00:36:53.040
You can't name that many British ones that regularly get on TV
00:36:56.660
that say transgressive things that come out against this ideology.
00:37:01.460
Yeah, although even Chris Rock has gone on that kind of journey
00:37:03.620
from really interesting, edgy comic in the 90s to this slightly woke last special
00:37:12.760
he's now fully on board with the establishment, isn't he?
00:37:16.260
So if you go back to his 90s stuff, it's very interesting.
00:37:18.480
He'll say things like, I've got things I'm conservative about.
00:37:24.480
He wouldn't even dare say that, which is interesting.
00:37:28.240
And you guys have even stopped doing it because of this.
00:37:38.660
and was it because of busyness or was it because of you just couldn't fit into that world
00:37:42.340
i hated being on the circuit from the moment i set foot on it right uh mainly because of the people
00:37:48.040
right that you're surrounded by uh i never had anything in common with them but at the moment
00:37:52.580
it's just busyness you know and also i did my edinburgh show in 2019 i it was it went very
00:37:58.460
well i was pleased with how it went i kind of felt like i'd drawn that line i'd got to that stage and
00:38:04.020
i didn't have anything left to prove really to myself more than anything um and now with
00:38:09.520
trigonometry is a full-time job the book i have to work on it's taken a lot of my time so i've
00:38:15.240
just been focused on this i might come back to it you know okay and francis you're obviously
00:38:19.060
working on your your tour i'm working on my tour but also as well i got i got sick of not being
00:38:24.880
able to talk of what i wanted to talk about to discuss a subject so i wanted to discuss
00:38:36.540
You've got a great 10 minutes on the Muslims.
0.99
00:38:51.200
Maybe we should cut his name out of this thing.
00:38:53.720
But someone told me you said something about it.
00:38:59.780
and you just said you're welcome to it guys I'm not I'm done with the comedy world or something
00:39:03.720
did you do that yeah yeah yeah pretty much pretty much because I've just there is only so long that
0.99
00:39:09.700
you can play a game where the rules are stupid where you start to make yourself become stupid
0.98
00:39:15.100
by playing the game right they only can go on for so long before you have to make a value judgment
1.00
00:39:20.320
you think am I going to carry on with this and waste time and waste and time is precious we there
00:39:26.520
is a limited amount that we all have. Am I going to carry on doing this? Am I going to carry on
00:39:31.400
seeking, carrying the favour of people that I have no respect for, who in ordinary life, I would not
00:39:37.720
give the time of day to. But somehow, because I'm in this industry, I have to play the game. I have
00:39:43.900
to be obsequious. I have to listen to their demented opinions as if they hold any value.
00:39:49.160
I just don't have time for it anymore. Right. And was it that you just saw,
00:39:52.500
so you didn't respect the people and you saw did you see no hope in that direction for you or you
00:39:57.380
know like they would never accept you anyway number one they would never accept me number two they
00:40:01.820
would never accept my politics even though actually old school i'm probably just sort of slightly left
00:40:06.880
of center some right on some things in terms of culture like you know i believe that you know
00:40:11.600
there's two sexes you know there's men and there's women and that's it bigger yeah exactly yeah yeah
1.00
00:40:17.300
and that doesn't mean that we can't have respect for trans people and we can't support them we
00:40:20.860
can't be empathetic all of those things but you can't deny biology and you know and if you said
00:40:26.620
that on the comedy circuit you'd be finished i wouldn't open with it as as comedians i want to
00:40:34.820
say no but this is the thing nick it's like what francis is talking about this is the thing that
00:40:39.180
took us a few years to get our heads around doing the show we are genuinely not right wing but
00:40:45.680
somehow the idea that there's two sexes or that maybe open borders isn't a sustainable policy
00:40:51.920
or the whatever other culture war issue or not culture where she come up with like the sensible
00:40:58.360
rational mainstream opinion is now like right wing right and and it's just not no no it's just
00:41:05.140
not i'm probably closer to a social democrat or something i realized exactly yes but but in the
00:41:10.160
culture sphere which is incredibly progressive to to use their term yeah the moment you you drift
00:41:18.220
anywhere from that you are immediately considered you know evil bigger like like you you find
00:41:23.680
yourself in this position and so the truth is life is short as francis says and all is going to
00:41:29.200
happen you're going to live a few more years and then you're going to die that's it well what
00:41:33.880
happened i had a similar thing to francis where what bothered me is comedians telling me for years
00:41:39.140
oh be careful about that mate don't say that yeah not even on stage just off stage some some of my
00:41:43.500
opinions i like to put or did like to put on twitter in the past and don't not so much now
00:41:48.360
but i just speak my mind but they'd all say oh mate don't say that and at a certain point i
00:41:52.660
thought do you really want to live like that isn't that cowardice do you mean as a man do you really
00:41:56.640
want to go around living or as a person but especially do you really want to just for whoever
00:42:00.600
has watched this but do you really want to go around living in a state of fear about what you
00:42:04.860
say all the time exactly because like you say some person who you don't respect anyway might see it
00:42:10.140
and ban you from some imaginary thing you might have got in six years yeah i'm like i can't live
00:42:14.680
like that yeah that's how most comedians live comedians live right and they always tell me
00:42:18.100
well i wouldn't say that and the things i'm saying are not even bad but they're you know
00:42:21.560
but they're just an opinion and it's like oh about everything i'm like i can't live like that
00:42:25.560
and the world and the comedy world forces you into that francis i remember one when we in the
00:42:31.560
early days of trigonometry he messaged me saying i don't think you should say this yeah and that's
00:42:37.200
not because he's a bad guy it's because we're all in that world yeah yeah you're you feel like you're
00:42:41.580
constantly being watched by other people who may give you an opportunity an opportunity being a gig
00:42:47.840
in fucking contington on c for 100 quid right on that saturday night or whatever it is yeah 150
0.97
00:42:53.400
or that one day you'll get on the apollo exactly yeah and get 15 but you won't but the thing is
0.97
00:42:58.180
you want right you know and i got i got the whole thing handed to me on a platter one day because
00:43:04.540
i i was uh walking to a gig and some guy was i had an altercation with some guy on the street
00:43:12.380
who called me a packet right which which is i've apologized yeah he does that joke every time
00:43:18.300
well done and i got home and i got an email from a comedy promoter saying hey constantine i'm sorry
00:43:25.780
we're going to have to cancel your spot this Saturday
00:43:27.820
because we've got too many straight white men on the bill.
1.00
00:43:54.260
and you know it's like George Carlin used to say and you ain't in it it's a small club and you ain't
0.99
00:43:59.120
in it and that's fine because now luckily we have our own tools that we can create our own shit
0.92
00:44:04.040
but you ain't in the club yeah I mean now I'm thinking I've said too much I was there was a
0.95
00:44:09.600
slight chance I could have been in the club but um it wasn't no no because what I started doing
00:44:14.040
yeah I'm the same I started just speaking my mind and doing all the and there's other other
00:44:18.840
channels for that what happened to me is during the lockdown without that like you said that sort
00:44:23.360
voice of like oh what would the comedy world think because that had gone because i was not doing
00:44:27.500
comedy and i was just at home i then started writing articles for spiked and i suddenly wrote
00:44:31.240
seven articles like oh this is brilliant and they're quite good and i was like oh i can do this
00:44:34.580
which i never would have done before and they would be called you know right wing by the comedy
00:44:39.100
even though they're marxists so that's another weird one to figure out some of them are marxists
00:44:43.500
so i started writing these articles and i did talk radio then i did gb news and these are the things
00:44:47.660
that if you get cancelled they're going to still have me on because they probably don't care because
00:44:52.560
i'm probably being cancelled for something stupid anyway so i just stick with the things that like
00:44:56.720
me and where i can go but yeah but it's unfortunate because it'd be nice to be on tv and say hey i'm
00:45:03.680
doing gb news that's nice isn't it and people to go yeah well done without having to feel weird
00:45:06.860
about it and it'd be nice if you could just do both imagine that if you could just do bbc and
00:45:11.680
gb news and no one thought it was a big deal because it's all let's be honest it's all showbiz
00:45:15.420
really isn't it yeah isn't it all really showbiz isn't it really there's not that much differences
00:45:19.180
Is there between GB News and BBC, really, is there?
00:45:21.960
It's a person reading out some opinions or some news.
00:45:28.760
There is a difference, but I don't know if it's as big as we think.
00:45:31.680
I mean, someone once said to me, Jesus was in showbiz.
00:45:35.120
Slightly blasphemous, but I saw his point earlier.
00:45:38.680
Isn't everyone, aren't we all a little bit in showbiz here,
00:45:42.360
Isn't it just a person saying an opinion on the TV?
00:45:45.400
Yeah, look, there is a good point to be made about that.
00:45:48.200
But the thing that I find frustrating is not really the comedy industry,
0.99
00:45:52.100
though I hope they all burn and die, right?
0.99
00:45:54.380
And hopefully I get successful enough and rich enough
0.99
00:45:58.180
that one day I can make that dream come to fruition, right?
00:46:05.080
That's what really annoys me, is what happens to the art form.
00:46:08.780
Because when we both started, and I imagine you as well,
00:46:13.840
this sort of transgressive force, saying the unsayable,
00:46:45.320
why does comedy have to even be representative?
00:46:53.800
I mean, in this country, it happened with Michael McIntyre.
00:46:58.160
we could make this cheap programming, relatively cheap.
00:47:00.240
Loads of people will watch it and they love it.
00:47:10.620
as opposed to just being the art form that it is,
00:47:14.540
Yeah, and do you think we're ever going to get back to that time?
00:47:18.820
Do you think we're ever going to get back to that time
00:47:37.020
Yeah, I do struggle to see how we get back to that
00:47:39.920
because we're in this, like you say, internet world.
00:47:44.080
everyone has their little niche which is good in a way but you don't have that centralized narrative
00:47:47.880
so it is hard to see how you get these big comedians who are just trying it happens a little
00:47:54.060
bit like you say in the US you do still have them a bit don't you occasionally with someone like
00:47:58.640
Bilbo although he's a bit tamer than he was but you do have it but I can't I wonder about that
00:48:03.080
that's why I was thinking about this split between Live at the Apollo and Comedy Unleashed and I was
00:48:06.580
thinking can these two ever come back together and just be comedy again because a lot of the comedy
00:48:10.780
comedy is just normal comedy yeah and that's all actually all we're trying to bring back
00:48:14.580
because it just this reminds me of um a tweet a while ago by i think it was richard tice and he
00:48:20.220
was saying it was on the radio him and laurence fox saying we're gonna have a pub and it's gonna
00:48:25.380
have british food no masks blah blah free speech all these things i was like yeah fair enough and
00:48:30.120
right-wing comedy and i was like hang on that's not that's not the answer no no we don't nobody
00:48:34.540
needs right-wing comedy right just you just need good comedy just comedy that's it that's it and
00:48:39.700
whoever brings that will will get respect it's like oh these guys brought us back normal comedy
00:48:44.200
but so if that's the right win then great they'll get a win there but but yeah we don't need right
00:48:48.840
the antidote to all this whatever so-called woke comedy whatever you want to call it is just comedy
00:48:53.860
and that's all people want when i some of my youtube videos that do okay from comedy at least
00:48:58.260
people like all the positive comments are all about oh proper comedy again that's all it is
00:49:02.660
that's all people want just normal comedy again yeah yeah it's this idea that you know that we're
00:49:07.980
all in separate factions so now we do comedy to cater to left-wing woke people now we need comedy
00:49:13.640
to cater to right-wing people right i don't care and i don't think the majority of audience members
00:49:18.820
i don't care about comedians political views right i disagree with stuart lee politically i think his
00:49:23.940
political views are demented i think he's a very good comedian yeah brilliant comedian
00:49:28.040
i will sit and watch stuart lee and disagree with him and enjoy his comedy right right exactly and
00:49:34.180
that that should be a normal a normal view i was thinking about i did a gig in cambridge a while
00:49:38.840
ago and uh afterwards a guy comes up to me and goes oh you were really good mate no you're really
00:49:42.840
good it was really nice to see you weren't just sort of doing like a rant like the others were
00:49:46.140
like it was a right you sort of do and i just went jokes and he was like i was doing jokes
00:49:50.700
i was just doing comedy but everyone else was doing a just a political rant about why the
00:49:55.600
audience should feel bad and it's like all i'm doing is not that i'm just sort of pretending
00:50:00.660
that doesn't exist you know what I mean and even in you mentioned Edinburgh Fessel even there you
00:50:05.200
can get reviewed almost on what you're not yeah like the year that the Me Too thing was a big
00:50:09.440
thing if you didn't address that you'd almost be attacked for that but all you were really doing
00:50:13.560
what I've just been doing with my comedy is just pretending none of that exists and occasionally
00:50:17.340
I'll reference it if I'm at Comedy Unleashed I'll do a sort of political or culture war type
00:50:21.120
reference but mainly I'll just do my comedy as if that's not a thing but it's more for me it's more
00:50:26.800
my apparent off-stage views that get me in trouble.
00:50:40.300
and we sat down, we were watching this comedian
00:51:25.060
Yeah, it can only damage the whole medium for everyone.
00:51:30.100
Even the big agents that run things like Live at the Apollo
00:51:42.080
and they've got this social engineering agenda.
00:51:46.700
I don't think the comedians really want it, most of them.
00:51:53.640
We've got one more question for you that we always ask,
00:52:03.700
May as well double down on that while we're there.
00:52:17.340
you know, articles and stuff, and keep doing stand-up.
00:52:20.560
because I still have clubs that book me and love me
00:52:39.820
that actually the current kind of pressure cooker
00:52:50.260
comedy unleashed where you get people coming through who are actually willing to be transgressive
00:52:54.640
and when the numbers are there to back it up eventually it takes off as the new counterculture
00:52:59.420
that's my hope that's my hope as well yeah but it's a strange world you don't really know what
00:53:03.520
what that career is you're just in the dark really you're just sort of hacking away just
00:53:07.580
you just because it doesn't really there's no structure that exists there because it's a new
00:53:13.000
platform like we did that comedy leach pilot and they're going to try and sell it we have to make
00:53:16.760
our own distribution platforms and things like that as you guys know yeah and but i think that's
00:53:21.680
very exciting because when you create your own platform you have true freedom to be who you are
00:53:26.940
say what you want write the comedy that you want because you're no longer answerable to these
00:53:31.400
gatekeepers right right i'm just hoping for like better gatekeepers as well like that you know
00:53:37.800
things like gb news talk radio spike these things i do they're they're sort of gatekeepers on it in
00:53:42.540
a way but in a much different way but like i say or just do it yourself which you guys are doing
00:53:46.700
which i should probably do more of but hey but nick thank you so much for coming on the show
00:53:52.280
uh before we do some questions for locals we always ask our one final question which is what's
00:53:57.260
the one thing we're not talking about but we really should be now what's the one thing do
00:54:01.940
you mean we as a culture yes yeah what's the one thing we're not talking about well i thought it
00:54:07.240
was um straight white male comedians not getting gigs but that was a huge mistake that turned out
00:54:12.880
to be a huge mistake you're not allowed to talk about that there's almost we almost can't talk
00:54:16.340
about anything can we i mean there's almost nothing you can talk about in the culture now
00:54:20.140
without getting in trouble so i don't know i mean the part of the culture that we inhabit we kind
00:54:24.960
of talk about whatever we want on here so far away well the thing is everyone is talking about
00:54:30.740
like this trans thing springs to mind people get in huge trouble about that i just think i think
00:54:35.580
i think we are talking about everything but anything you talk about there's going to be
00:54:40.440
two sides there's going to be immense conflict on Twitter straight away I mean there's this idea of
00:54:44.460
the silent majority I'm not even totally sure it exists but I think we are I can't think of anything
00:54:50.020
we're not talking about because we are someone is talking about everything but as soon as you say
00:54:54.840
anything you're going to have immense pushback and immense hatred online but I can't think of
00:54:58.920
one topic that's not brought up I can just I just think of a range of topics that aren't you're not
00:55:03.400
allowed to talk about which is virtually everything but in the mainstream yeah but everyone everyone
00:55:10.060
is talking about everything but but they're just but they're not allowed to talk about any of it
00:55:13.960
that's my position does that make any sense yeah yeah i guess what you're saying is there are lots
00:55:18.660
of things that you're not supposed to talk about but people do talk about it but it's scary to do
00:55:24.560
so because the risk of cancellation right on whatever is right right so we're always talking
00:55:29.680
about everything we're always talking about race we're talking about trans issues we're talking
00:55:32.420
about all issues we actually are talking about them but in a very in a very heated atmosphere
00:55:37.500
where you can't actually talk freely about them.
00:55:50.020
Nick, D-I-X-O-N Comic on Twitter, Instagram, all those things.
00:56:36.660
another fantastic episode and if you believe that the work we do here at Trigonometry is important
00:56:42.660
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