TRIGGERnometry - Civil War in America？

00:00:00.840 What do you make of where we are at the moment? What's your take?

00:00:04.520 Do I have to say it? Civil war!

00:00:07.800 We're tracking over the past several years that we are in a period of civil strife.

00:00:12.360 Civil strife is defined academically as 70 or more political deaths per year.

00:00:16.880 We have 30 in the first few months.

00:00:18.960 In times of war, a wartime president makes difficult decisions,

00:00:22.160 which are outside what our principles purport to be.

00:00:24.800 But we're not in a time of war.

00:00:25.920 And it's also as well, Tim. No, we're not.

00:00:28.100 What I'm saying is you're extending the definition of war, wartime and emergency

00:00:35.660 in order to suit your agenda is what it sounds like.

00:00:38.820 You are incorrect.

00:00:58.100 Pollinators might be a thing.

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00:01:03.460 So whatever you think is going to happen in the future, you can invest in it at Wealthsimple.

00:01:09.160 Start now at Wealthsimple.com.

00:01:11.680 Tim Pool, welcome to Trigonometry.

00:01:13.220 Thanks for having me. It's an honor and a privilege.

00:01:14.820 It's great to have you on, man. It's an interesting time with a lot going on.

00:01:19.060 You know, people are burning Teslas down, all kinds of crazy shit is going on.

00:01:24.440 What do you make of where we are at the moment? What's your take?

00:01:28.020 Do I have to say it?

00:01:29.940 I mean, that's the point of the show.

00:01:31.420 Civil War.

00:01:32.720 Oh, you love that shit.

00:01:33.840 This is one of the things I don't love it.

00:01:35.820 I just think I'm reading and paying attention and studying.

00:01:40.120 And I don't even go as far as, are you familiar with Rudyard Lynch?

00:01:43.380 No.

00:01:43.740 He's got a big YouTube channel, What If Alt History.

00:01:46.500 He's a very smart guy.

00:01:47.780 He seems a little bit autistic.

00:01:49.460 I think he said that.

00:01:50.900 And he predicted 1,000 people would be dead from the point of the election to the beginning of April.

00:01:56.400 And we had him on my show and I said, that's not going to happen.

00:01:59.520 I think we're at like 30.

00:02:00.860 30 deaths politically motivated since the election.

00:02:04.500 And there's wild stories, like a guy killed his family and he was screaming about Trump or something like that.

00:02:09.680 He's got 1,000 people.

00:02:10.980 He's done a bunch of, he's done many videos breaking down various civil wars, periods of tumult.

00:02:18.280 It's not that he's hyper-focused on conflict.

00:02:21.080 It's that what we are seeing in the United States tracks alongside in very similar ways what happened to a lot of other countries pre-revolution, pre-civil war, or even international conflict.

00:02:30.000 What do you mean by that?

00:02:31.140 Like, what do you see?

00:02:32.020 What are the markers that make you think that that's the path that America's on?

00:02:35.560 So when it comes to me saying civil war, and I do so quite a bit, I don't do so the most, but I have a high-profile show, so people tend to equate it to me.

00:02:44.280 My analysis is actually just I read news stories and then I agree or disagree.

00:02:49.360 So eight years ago, there was an article in The Atlantic that asked a bunch of national security experts and, you know, intelligence individuals what the likelihood of a civil war in the United States would be.

00:03:02.020 And the consensus, I think, was 30% in the next 10 years.

00:03:06.560 But some individuals said over 90.

00:03:08.060 So the view among academics is the precursor to civil war period is known as a civil strife period.

00:03:15.760 Civil strife doesn't always lead to civil war.

00:03:17.960 The American Civil Rights Movement 1950s was a period of civil strife, not civil unrest.

00:03:22.200 Civil strife is defined academically as 70 or more political deaths per year.

00:03:26.640 We have 30 in the first few months.

00:03:28.780 Depending on how you want to define it, you could argue a little bit more, a little bit less.

00:03:32.340 We're tracking over the past several years that we are in a period of civil strife.

00:03:36.380 If I counter that with we have a denser population, denser population is a higher hard number, but less per capita.

00:03:43.000 So I don't know if that will be perfect.

00:03:44.880 But a few things to consider.

00:03:47.260 Back when Trump got elected, we were dealing with a bifurcation in America culture, starting probably at the end of the 2000s with the emergence of new media.

00:03:57.260 It was apparent to people who were born on the Internet, who grew up on the Internet and the people who lived in the mainstream corporate press world.

00:04:02.600 I've been saying since back then, we are seeing a divergent reality.

00:04:07.480 Scott Adams articulated much better than I with one screen, two films.

00:04:11.240 So now the markers are obviously political violence in the street, advocacy for extreme violence and terror in the press among a prominent faction and administrative civil war, as Eric Weinstein called it.

00:04:25.520 All of these things have basically shown that the dam that is holding back the floods of conflict have are on the verge of exploding.

00:04:32.280 So if we go back to Donald Trump's first term, you had the street level violence of Antifa.

00:04:40.560 If any conservative or pro-Trump group tried organizing, they were brutalized in the street.

00:04:45.280 There was no inverse of this until the emergence of the Proud Boys.

00:04:48.520 Famously in Berkeley, a free speech rally was held advocating for the right to speak up in public.

00:04:53.360 What happened?

00:04:54.180 Far leftists, many aligned with Antifa as their banner or whatever, showed up through explosives.

00:04:59.820 I mean, this is 2017 or 18.

00:05:01.580 They're throwing explosives at elderly women.

00:05:03.980 I was there.

00:05:04.780 There is an 60, 70 year old woman waving a little flag.

00:05:08.060 And I got the video on my YouTube channel.

00:05:09.640 Someone threw an M-80 at her and explodes and she falls over and the crowd screaming.

00:05:13.360 One guy came with a bike lock, a U-lock, and he bashed several people over the head with it.

00:05:17.820 These were not conservatives doing this.

00:05:20.040 That level of street violence ends up with Donald Trump.

00:05:24.360 He's accused of being a Russian spy, literally, targeted by elements of our own intelligence agencies.

00:05:30.780 So you have prominent media personalities defending the violence in the streets.

00:05:35.240 You have violence in the streets and you have the administrative state targeting the president at the time.

00:05:40.660 Those things were all still very much on the lighter end, but bubbling up.

00:05:45.440 So at the time, we saw several articles.

00:05:48.300 There was a Princeton professor.

00:05:49.580 There's a CIA analyst.

00:05:50.620 There's Stephen Marsh, who's a journalist and researcher, more of a liberal persuasion.

00:05:54.580 And you had this article in the Atlantic and a bunch of ancillary articles that emerged outside of it asking the question of, is this how civil war starts?

00:06:02.460 Nobody wants to believe it.

00:06:03.680 Nobody wants to pay attention.

00:06:05.640 And so at the time, I had been saying to people, guys, do you think there's any veracity to this?

00:06:10.480 I was part of a chat group with a bunch of different journalists in D.C.

00:06:14.000 And they all mocked the idea and said, don't be stupid.

00:06:16.880 People fighting the street all the time.

00:06:18.360 There's protests all the time.

00:06:19.180 And I said, yes, but it's the presidency.

00:06:22.080 They were accusing the president of being a spy for a foreign government, effectively a traitor.

00:06:26.460 That's the penalty of which is death.

00:06:28.320 Like, this is a crazy thing to attack a president with.

00:06:32.880 And most people poo-pooed the idea.

00:06:36.280 Think about how far we've gone since 2017, 2018, to where we are now.

00:06:40.640 So a few examples.

00:06:44.540 The first thing I want to say is the American Civil War started with the Battle of Fort Sumter in South Carolina.

00:06:52.000 Several states, seven, seceded from the Union before Abraham Lincoln was inaugurated as president and won the election.

00:06:57.680 Seven states, slave states, said, this man is going to abolish slavery, which will damage our economy.

00:07:02.920 And we have a right to own slaves, blah, blah, blah.

00:07:04.900 So we are seceding now.

00:07:08.000 Abraham Lincoln didn't obviously want the Union to break apart.

00:07:12.420 So they tried to maintain federal military bases in Southern Territory.

00:07:16.580 Notably in South Carolina, there's Fort Sumter.

00:07:18.860 The Union occupied it.

00:07:20.360 South Carolina said, we are no longer part of your Union.

00:07:22.600 Take your troops and go.

00:07:23.680 The North said, no, we won't do that.

00:07:25.640 So the South shows up with a bunch of ships.

00:07:28.140 It's considered the first battle of the Civil War, despite the fact that no one killed each other.

00:07:31.900 One guy died.

00:07:32.660 It was an accident.

00:07:34.620 Historically, we say, Civil War began on that day.

00:07:37.680 However, at the time, nobody thought a Civil War had started.

00:07:40.980 So when the first Battle of Manassas occurred, which is actually just a dozen or so miles from where we're sitting today.

00:07:46.360 Thanks for doxing us.

00:07:48.360 I mean, I don't know.

00:07:49.580 You're in Washington, D.C.

00:07:50.580 It's a joke.

00:07:51.180 It's a joke.

00:07:51.720 You had Confederate forces amassing on the South, and then you had Union forces amassing on the North, and people picnicked.

00:08:00.260 They showed up to enjoy the show with a nice picnic and laugh.

00:08:03.940 Laugh about how there's no Civil War and it can't happen.

00:08:06.960 And then it was a massacre.

00:08:08.500 And the historical depiction of what occurred as people are running around freaking out, civilians are getting their heads blown off because people were standing on a hillside as the war was erupting in full swing.

00:08:20.260 Interestingly, the Confederacy won the Battle of Bull Run, and if they had marched on D.C., the war would have been over and the Confederacy would have won.

00:08:26.520 But this is a really good example because anybody listening right now can go and read Fort Sumter started the Civil War, and then no one believed it.

00:08:36.460 So the question is, are we in it now and we just don't believe it?

00:08:38.840 I can't believe that after all of this time, with the escalation of administrative conflict, two assassination attempts on Donald Trump, an attempt by one political faction to put him in prison, impeach him.

00:08:52.500 And the fact that in multiple jurisdictions, they have criminally charged Trump's lawyers, which is so far beyond what the Constitution allows.

00:09:03.760 And they argue they're justified in doing so.

00:09:06.140 But it's ludicrous.

00:09:07.660 No one on the right has exercised power to that degree in any way.

00:09:11.680 Trump's not invoked the Insurrection Act in his first term to stop the riots.

00:09:14.740 Trump didn't order federal authorities to go round up these far-left extremists.

00:09:18.680 Trump didn't order U.S. attorneys during his first term to start arresting lawyers and journalists or anything like this.

00:09:24.420 When Trump gets out of office, they continue to pursue him, accuse him of insurrection, lie about happened on January 6th, and then started criminally charging his lawyers.

00:09:33.340 Notably, Jenna Ellis, who I'm not a big fan of, she cried on camera saying, I'm so sorry for working with Donald Trump.

00:09:39.820 She's just a lawyer.

00:09:41.260 What was she accused of?

00:09:42.120 She drafted letters for the president, which is a legally, constitutionally protected service.

00:09:47.560 You can't criminally charge lawyers.

00:09:50.280 Everyone's entitled to have a lawyer.

00:09:51.880 They did, in Georgia.

00:09:53.500 And they tried to put her in prison for decades under RICO charges, claiming that because she represented Trump, she was involved in a criminal conspiracy.

00:10:01.240 So when you get to that level of, we will burn you to the ground, if you, like, we're going to take your lawyers away from you.

00:10:08.240 We're going to put your legal team, your supporters, Giuliani, Manafort.

00:10:12.240 I mean, this has been going on for nearly a decade.

00:10:14.560 So the period before the American Civil War is called Bleeding Kansas.

00:10:19.520 Seven years of bloody conflict in the territory of Kansas as people fought over whether it would be a slave state or a free state.

00:10:25.140 There was administrative conflict in the non-warring territories.

00:10:29.140 It wasn't a civil war.

00:10:29.940 But people have been talking about it for a long time.

00:10:33.320 You end up getting the famous caning in Congress where I believe it was a southerner caned a northerner.

00:10:40.060 I think it was a northern Republican was beaten and got a TBI.

00:10:44.300 It's nuts.

00:10:45.060 So that violence had existed.

00:10:46.220 Today, we have we've we've evolved from the far left shows up and beats the crap out of right wingers to the far left rampages around the country and mass rioting firebomb.

00:10:59.460 How do you say this?

00:11:00.440 May 29th, 2020, far left for extremists to the tune of about a thousand showed up in front of the White House throwing firebombs.

00:11:06.860 They firebombed the White House grounds.

00:11:08.680 They firebombed St.

00:11:09.640 John's Church.

00:11:10.380 They injured over 100 law enforcement officers, ripped the barricades down.

00:11:14.100 And then Trump and Bill Barr sent in police to break it up.

00:11:19.360 Had they not done that, far leftists would have stormed the White House.

00:11:23.200 But Trump said, we're not going to let him do it.

00:11:25.180 The next day, they insulted Trump in the media.

00:11:27.480 They called him bunker boy because he was forced to flee to an emergency bunker.

00:11:31.220 Now, I just like to play this game.

00:11:33.960 Every step of the way we've had this conversation on is the United States moving towards civil war?

00:11:37.760 I don't know.

00:11:38.220 I don't know that it is.

00:11:39.080 I'm just some guy who reads the news.

00:11:40.740 I've asked people this question.

00:11:42.200 If we went back, insert any number of years, and told someone what we are seeing today would happen, would they believe you?

00:11:49.880 The answer is no.

00:11:50.660 If I went back to 2016 and said four years from now, we will see the worst riots in this country in 50 years with 30 plus deaths.

00:11:59.460 A thousand plus people in D.C. will firebomb the White House and St.

00:12:03.640 John's Church across the street, forcing the president to flee to an underground bunker with the security personnel.

00:12:08.880 They would have laughed in my face.

00:12:10.080 And I know this because they did.

00:12:12.480 In 2018, when the stories were bubbling up, the response I got from the journalists in D.C., not that I was saying, it's civil war is coming.

00:12:18.960 Oh, my God.

00:12:19.360 I said, do you guys think these articles are legit?

00:12:21.000 There's a Princeton professor saying it's coming.

00:12:23.020 They'd say it'll never happen.

00:12:24.660 It's impossible.

00:12:25.820 The security state wouldn't allow it.

00:12:28.580 Ryan Long, comedian, comes on my show in 2020.

00:12:31.300 And we talked about some of the latest updates and what was going on.

00:12:34.640 I mean, we had the summer of love riots and we discussed civil war.

00:12:38.320 He comes on my show a year later.

00:12:40.540 And I view this as a gotcha, though.

00:12:42.980 Ryan's a friend.

00:12:43.600 He's a you know, we think he's great.

00:12:45.940 He's so we're hanging out before the show.

00:12:47.400 He's talking to me and everything's fine.

00:12:49.120 And then right when the show starts, he pulls a gotcha where he goes, where's the civil war, Tim?

00:12:54.220 Last time I was here, you told me it was going to be a civil war.

00:12:56.020 I left kind of freaking out.

00:12:56.980 And I went on January 6th, 2021, 1000 Donald Trump supporters stormed the Capitol of the United States, smashing windows and climbing to the building, disrupting the electoral vote count.

00:13:07.260 Many other people on the other side of the building walked in as the doors were opened.

00:13:11.080 They called that an insurrection.

00:13:12.240 And he went, oh, I'm like, right.

00:13:15.900 The left right now is arguing that Donald Trump tried to overthrow this country with a violent with a violent coup of his supporters that he called for.

00:13:22.540 Now, I certainly believe that it was largely just a riot at a government building, which was extremely bad.

00:13:29.160 There was no real functional plan that Trump or anybody had to to remove the government.

00:13:34.440 Yeah, it wasn't an attempt to seize power, but you don't.

00:13:37.500 Well, I silly, I think it's probably understated in the case.

00:13:40.360 It was not a good thing to happen.

00:13:41.740 I'm saying the argument that Trump organized a military takeover with no weapons.

00:13:46.540 Yeah, that idea is silly.

00:13:48.740 It was not a good thing to happen, as you say.

00:13:50.920 It was one of the darkest days of this country in modern history.

00:13:54.480 Right.

00:13:54.980 And I've routinely called for those that rioted to go to prison.

00:13:58.400 I just think that four years in prison for a riot is probably good enough.

00:14:02.140 And now we can bring some of these people home.

00:14:03.680 Tim, you've outlined your case and it's very persuasive.

00:14:07.920 I would argue that you're missing a crucial and fundamental part, which is COVID.

00:14:12.540 COVID essentially locking people down, putting them in their houses for X amount of months,

00:14:19.120 watching their businesses go to the wall, become incredibly frustrated and angry, deservedly so.

00:14:25.880 Spend all day, every day, mainlining social media into your eyeballs is enough to send anyone a little bit loopy, me and all of us here included.

00:14:34.860 Right. And I think what ends up happening with COVID is more people plugged in to the political entertainment element.

00:14:43.320 Yes.

00:14:43.800 You're locked in your house.

00:14:44.680 And what happens?

00:14:45.160 We saw podcast numbers through the roof.

00:14:47.360 I mean, it was nuts.

00:14:48.280 My channels were getting a combined 150 million views per month, arguably one of the biggest.

00:14:56.920 It's not a single show.

00:14:58.120 It was like a series of clips on YouTube plus two podcasts.

00:15:00.460 Yeah.

00:15:00.860 So what happens is people with nothing to do, they turn to YouTube.

00:15:04.920 They turn to social media.

00:15:06.180 Their life is being destroyed specifically by a political environment.

00:15:09.680 So a large portion turned to a political entertainment.

00:15:13.580 Those people have maintained that.

00:15:16.380 COVID exacerbated the problem.

00:15:18.400 Yeah.

00:15:18.800 It enraged people and it activated people.

00:15:21.380 So people who normally wouldn't pay attention all of a sudden now are wired into politics.

00:15:26.260 This is why Donald Trump did not win in 2020.

00:15:28.840 So I've had, I told Steve Bannon this.

00:15:31.320 A friend of mine that I've known since I was a kid couldn't tell you what Supreme Court justice meant.

00:15:36.620 He would, he would think it's some kind of term for accountability.

00:15:38.980 He wouldn't realize you're talking about people.

00:15:40.920 He filmed himself carrying a mail-in ballot with his phone, filming it as he walked to the mailbox and said,

00:15:45.380 I'm doing my part.

00:15:46.280 Are you?

00:15:46.680 And he put his mail-in ballot in.

00:15:48.580 And as soon as I saw that, I said, Trump lost.

00:15:50.520 I was telling my friends, I was like, yo, when you get homie who doesn't know left from right in politics or up from down and he's filming himself doing this.

00:15:59.280 I was like, I don't know how Trump wins.

00:16:01.180 And the problems of COVID were largely viewed as Trump's fault because most people don't pay attention to the nuances of what was going on.

00:16:08.020 And look, let's be real.

00:16:08.820 Trump was president.

00:16:10.000 What I see now when people say it's remarkable, I had its conversation with someone recently, they said, it's not going to happen.

00:16:16.980 And there's not going to be a civil war.

00:16:18.060 And I'm like, my dude, have you not seen enough over the past eight years to consider perhaps reading about the Spanish Civil War, the Russian Revolution, the American Civil War, and to consider maybe you're right.

00:16:27.900 It won't happen.

00:16:28.660 But there's a strong probability.

00:16:30.180 I'm not saying more than 50% that it can.

00:16:32.680 For instance, today we're not dealing with wanton violence through the streets.

00:16:37.020 We're dealing with around 20 direct swattings targeting individuals.

00:16:41.880 This is now an effort of largely leftist individuals now terrorizing the right intentionally, where in 2020 it was anger and street violence and firearms.

00:16:51.900 Just for people who are not clued in, the swatting is when someone calls up the police and says there's an emergency happening at this house.

00:16:58.180 The swat team arrives, kicks down the door potentially, etc.

00:17:01.840 And it's an attempt, A, to make that person potentially get killed by the swat team, or to make them feel very unsafe, and probably both, or to create a situation, as you explained before, we started, whereby the police stop coming, and then that person is actually unsafe because they have to come in.

00:17:21.540 Exactly. So a lot of people need to understand, we get swatted all the time nonstop.

00:17:24.700 Famously, we had this one year where we got swatted 15 times, and we were tracking them because there were minor disruptions.

00:17:33.060 The first one disrupted the show. We had to get up and leave.

00:17:36.460 After that, we conferred with security, and usually it was fine.

00:17:40.740 There was one credible bomb threat.

00:17:42.780 We had the bomb squad come out twice.

00:17:44.260 I'm not going to explain the tactics they used to force this to happen, but it's relatively easy for these people who know how to do it.

00:17:52.060 We still get swatted, but we've mitigated it, so now we don't just, there's no reason to talk about it, doesn't affect us anymore.

00:17:57.200 One of the reasons they do it is also to strain resources.

00:18:01.920 So when Owen Schroyer of InfoWars is forced to walk out of his house backwards, they wake him up in the middle of the night.

00:18:07.900 He's tired. It's harder for him to work.

00:18:10.200 They have to spend money on security.

00:18:12.580 They have to now allocate a portion of their time.

00:18:14.820 You do that to enough people, you can create friction for your political opponents.

00:18:19.180 So it causes economic damage. It causes chaos.

00:18:22.060 It's a, in terms of warfare, swatting is a masterfully powerful tactic.

00:18:27.820 It's demoralization, effectively.

00:18:30.120 But it also sows chaos in the community, and it makes it easier for the far left to engage in street violence.

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00:19:59.220 Well, I wanted to take your argument through.

00:20:05.220 I think you're making some really interesting points.

00:20:07.800 And people can agree or disagree or whatever.

00:20:09.460 But I just want to explore your argument.

00:20:11.140 And the one thing that, as you're talking, I'm definitely...

00:20:13.820 It's actually, France and I were walking around yesterday.

00:20:16.680 And the one thing that we notice, and we come to the U.S. regularly, but we don't live here.

00:20:22.460 And that can be an interesting perspective because you're coming a couple of times a year.

00:20:26.820 You're seeing how things are evolving.

00:20:28.400 You've got an outside of perspective.

00:20:30.440 The one thing I said to him yesterday, I was walking around, is there is a hell of a lot of latent anger in America.

00:20:37.320 Like, you just observe a normal interaction between people where someone cuts someone up in traffic or a cyclist and a guy driving a car get into...

00:20:48.780 And it's always like, fuck you, buddy!

00:20:51.000 Like, like that.

00:20:53.140 Like that.

00:20:53.880 But I assumed that is just, like, this is how American culture is versus the Brits.

00:20:58.780 We're more polite.

00:20:59.800 We'll call you a dickhead behind your back.

00:21:01.820 And then we'll get the knife out.

00:21:02.920 And then we'll get the knife out.

00:21:04.120 Right.

00:21:04.360 And we'll report you to the police for your tweets.

00:21:07.680 Like, that's our approach.

00:21:09.780 And I just assumed that you guys, you know, frontier culture, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:21:14.280 Or do you feel that that latent anger is getting more intense?

00:21:19.340 It's way more intense.

00:21:20.900 We, I intentionally drove my Cybertruck here.

00:21:24.600 You know, maybe I shouldn't say intentionally, but, like, it's my Cybertruck.

00:21:27.360 I'm not going to not take...

00:21:28.800 I have three Teslas.

00:21:30.220 And so I said, I'm going to take the truck.

00:21:32.900 I have my crew with me.

00:21:34.640 They're my friends, but it's also, you know, for security reasons.

00:21:37.820 And we didn't hire armed guards this time.

00:21:40.280 But we, I was considering bringing one of our guys who's allowed to legally carry in D.C.

00:21:44.420 On the way here, it looked like Aaliyah was trying to run us off the road.

00:21:48.860 I say that lightly because sometimes people are bad drivers.

00:21:52.720 But there was a woman who got within inches of the car and held the position while staring at us the whole time.

00:21:59.560 And we're just looking like, what do we do?

00:22:01.520 Do we, like, this is crazy.

00:22:04.040 My buddy was freaking out.

00:22:05.760 He was like, dude, she's staring us down.

00:22:07.500 And she, like, got on the line next to the truck within inches.

00:22:12.400 And I was like, maybe we should get over.

00:22:14.360 And then she held that.

00:22:16.280 Maybe sometimes people are bad drivers.

00:22:17.780 Maybe, you know...

00:22:18.780 All right.

00:22:19.080 Well, let's just agree that we agree that there's a lot of latent anger.

00:22:23.040 Well, I'll add one thing.

00:22:24.020 Yeah.

00:22:24.200 But as we were parking, people are staring at us.

00:22:27.900 And one guy spit at us.

00:22:30.080 Yeah.

00:22:30.520 Some woman was shaking her head at us.

00:22:32.680 Some guy spit at us.

00:22:34.340 Like, he looked at us and he spit at the car.

00:22:35.800 And a woman pointed at us.

00:22:36.800 He looked and he spit at us.

00:22:38.000 You are a very well-known person in America who a lot of people don't like.

00:22:41.640 They can't see me in the car.

00:22:42.800 Okay.

00:22:43.300 Well, and we are in a very particular moment with the whole Tesla thing, right?

00:22:46.940 But I guess what I was curious about is, like, we had Charlemagne on the show earlier.

00:22:51.700 We talked to Andrew Schultz as well.

00:22:53.280 And they both made an interesting point, I thought.

00:22:55.780 And this comes back to the fact that you used to cover, you know, your career, from what

00:22:59.320 I understand, really started by covering the Occupy Wall Street movie.

00:23:02.320 Yeah.

00:23:02.700 You know, it started in a big way.

00:23:06.040 And what they were saying is, I think most people underestimate the impact of income and

00:23:10.960 wealth inequality in this country and the way people feel in that shit is getting really

00:23:15.320 expensive.

00:23:16.800 Life is getting a lot harder.

00:23:18.160 The American dream is becoming much more of a dream than a reality for many, many, many

00:23:24.120 people.

00:23:25.420 You know, I think, I remember I was talking to Chris Williamson about this, and he made

00:23:28.920 the point that the average American has, like, less than $800 in savings.

00:23:32.500 They're constantly on the verge of bankruptcy.

00:23:34.580 One health issue, they're going to be screwed.

00:23:37.480 That anger that you're talking about, do you think it comes from that reality?

00:23:42.660 Or do you think there's something else going on?

00:23:44.840 I would say it technically does.

00:23:46.380 It's the perception of the wealth inequality.

00:23:49.260 It's the perception of the American dream.

00:23:51.020 The American dream still exists.

00:23:51.960 It always has.

00:23:52.700 The American dream was never that you were going to get a four-year degree and then make

00:23:56.840 hundreds of thousands of dollars and go on vacation.

00:23:59.120 The American dream was that you could move here from the Philippines, live in a one-bedroom

00:24:03.340 apartment with your three kids and wife sharing literally just the one room.

00:24:07.620 You would work 16-hour shifts every single day, but your children would advance upward in

00:24:12.800 class.

00:24:13.600 Whereas the home country you came from, you couldn't do that.

00:24:15.440 It was a country where a kid from the inner city with not even two nickels to rub together

00:24:23.500 could look the president in the eye and say, go fuck yourself, Mr. President, and nothing

00:24:28.060 could be done about it.

00:24:29.280 The American dream very much is still there, but the perception of it is going away, largely

00:24:33.180 because of our cultural failings.

00:24:34.720 This all ties back to the emergence of social media, the exploitation of algorithms, and

00:24:40.160 the perception that was created among the younger generation that America sucks, when

00:24:44.680 in fact it doesn't.

00:24:45.940 These people have never been to other countries.

00:24:47.480 They don't understand what it's like.

00:24:49.220 And so they live in this country where they perceive everything through the lens of a largely

00:24:53.020 leftist hatred algorithm, which was intended to make money.

00:24:57.080 And now they think everything's bad.

00:25:00.160 They think it's getting worse.

00:25:01.780 They blame the wealthy for their problems.

00:25:04.140 They don't realize class mobility and opportunity doesn't exist in other countries.

00:25:09.200 That being said, it's not made better by our economic crises with the food shortages,

00:25:15.280 egg prices, gas prices.

00:25:16.400 That certainly plays a large role.

00:25:18.920 Property prices as well.

00:25:20.060 Well, this is what I'm going to say.

00:25:21.320 I'm not an American, so I'm just exploring the argument.

00:25:23.900 You push back on this.

00:25:24.860 But I would imagine a part of the American dream is not just that your kids would do better,

00:25:29.080 which, by the way, they're probably not going to, both in this country and in our country,

00:25:33.680 right?

00:25:33.900 That sense of the next generation, like only 30% of Americans, according to the latest

00:25:39.040 poll, think that their children would do better.

00:25:40.500 But a Filipino family's children?

00:25:41.960 So here's what I'm saying, right?

00:25:43.320 But I think there is also a real material dimension to it, which is it's not just about your kids

00:25:49.460 doing better.

00:25:50.180 There are certain markers that people would think are signifiers of them doing better,

00:25:55.120 which is they own their own house, right?

00:25:57.480 Which means that they can pass wealth down to the next generation.

00:26:01.060 And they have the opportunity basically to have kids, right?

00:26:04.640 That is unavailable to a lot of people for purely financial reasons.

00:26:07.860 I disagree.

00:26:08.420 Okay, tell me more.

00:26:10.720 The people who made this country, the founders of this country, the conquerors of this continent,

00:26:15.020 got on boats, where I believe around 20% of the people on those boats died.

00:26:20.760 When they landed, they arrived on barren shores.

00:26:23.420 They knew they were sailing to barren shores.

00:26:26.100 And after that, a majority of them died.

00:26:29.280 And those who survived the winter, either through sheer grit, luck, or the assistance of Native

00:26:34.240 Americans in some instances, were able to then have children.

00:26:37.960 And a lot of that grit was passed down.

00:26:41.000 This is why I see the difference between the European perspective on hate speech and things

00:26:45.120 like this versus the United States.

00:26:46.960 Gun rights, for instance.

00:26:48.840 That harsh journey, it killed the weak.

00:26:52.580 Or I don't even think the people were weak who did it.

00:26:54.520 They were all very strong people to make that decision.

00:26:56.820 Today, you have people who are like, if I don't have a TV, two weeks vacation, then I'm not

00:27:04.700 doing well.

00:27:05.740 Don't get me wrong.

00:27:06.520 Owning a house is important.

00:27:08.180 But back then, you'd walk into the woods, and you didn't have a house.

00:27:12.600 And to have one, you had to put sticks and leaves together.

00:27:15.820 That was a dream come true for these people.

00:27:19.060 Now, I understand we want things to be better, and people expect a certain degree of comfort.

00:27:23.080 But I think an important perspective people should have is where we came from and what

00:27:28.640 was considered to be prosperity and luxury involved extreme high rates of death, sacrifice,

00:27:34.480 and difficulty that no one experiences today.

00:27:37.500 Even poor people have access to clean drinking water.

00:27:40.860 Unheard of.

00:27:41.920 If you're a homeless man in this country, you likely are obese.

00:27:45.980 This is a fact in the United States.

00:27:47.240 Our homeless are likely to be obese.

00:27:49.260 I mean, there is an incongruence in the function of what our society should be doing.

00:27:53.700 People do want to own homes, have families.

00:27:55.980 But if you take a look at some of the poorest areas, it's the poorer people who are having

00:27:59.120 more kids.

00:28:00.220 So I would say, largely among those who purport to be angry at our government and our structure,

00:28:06.600 they don't even want to have kids.

00:28:07.960 They're advocating in media not to have kids.

00:28:10.360 They're angry at structures and systems based off of a perception built by an algorithmic

00:28:15.320 media machine that was simply trying to make them angry to make money.

00:28:18.920 Now they live in a world of fear and hatred, pure hatred.

00:28:22.520 And you ask them, why do you hate Teslas so much?

00:28:25.060 Two years ago, you told us we had to own one.

00:28:27.140 Now you're firebombing them and cheering for it on TV.

00:28:30.240 There's no logic behind what they're angry about.

00:28:32.800 This is why I refer to the left largely as a cult.

00:28:35.460 You have the people who are scared to defy it because they live in these areas and they

00:28:39.000 know someone will shoot at them or smash their cars or their windows.

00:28:42.660 So they put stickers on their cars.

00:28:44.180 They put signs on their windows.

00:28:45.180 Please don't hurt me.

00:28:46.560 And then you have people who just without thought will hate what they're told to hate

00:28:51.980 and not be able to explain to you why.

00:28:53.440 But you say the left is a cult.

00:28:57.340 It's not the whole of the left.

00:28:58.760 Let's be fair to you.

00:28:59.980 That is a very small percentage of people.

00:29:02.400 I can do the same thing with the right.

00:29:04.180 And I can say, look, the right, they're completely insane.

00:29:07.680 Look at these nutbags on Twitter.

00:29:09.320 You'd be wrong.

00:29:10.420 Really?

00:29:11.080 Yeah.

00:29:13.160 RFK Jr., former liberal.

00:29:14.760 Tulsi Gabbard, former liberal.

00:29:16.040 Donald Trump, former liberal.

00:29:17.200 Elon Musk, former liberal.

00:29:18.340 Colin Wright, former liberal.

00:29:19.460 Tim Poole, former liberal.

00:29:20.400 How is it that the popular vote winner, Donald Trump, was a Democrat up until his first term?

00:29:27.000 That Tulsi Gabbard, DNI, former Democrat that I supported in 2020.

00:29:31.000 I never voted Republican.

00:29:32.160 I didn't like Republicans.

00:29:33.300 And now the Republican MAGA movement, not the neocons, is an eclectic bunch of diverse views

00:29:38.600 which debate each other.

00:29:40.640 How is that Charlie Kirk, Christian conservative with one of the largest conservative platforms,

00:29:45.640 invites moderate pro-choice Tim Poole onto his stage?

00:29:50.400 For his biggest event of the year, to discuss those views to the public.

00:29:54.660 On the left, what do you think would happen if you went and opposed their views at a public forum?

00:29:59.960 You'd be threatened with violence.

00:30:02.060 And I'm not saying literally everyone all the time.

00:30:04.640 But booking liberals to come on my show or any other show, people in this space-

00:30:10.440 We have the same problem.

00:30:11.040 Yeah.

00:30:11.380 They refuse to do it.

00:30:12.420 They don't want to talk.

00:30:13.220 Back in, I think it was 2018.

00:30:15.880 But we should say why as well.

00:30:18.340 They're scared of their own side.

00:30:19.380 It's a cult.

00:30:20.720 So I can sit in front of a libertarian like Dave Smith, who is going to rant about how

00:30:26.900 Israel is bad, and Charlie Kirk at the same time, and we leave with beers in our hands,

00:30:31.700 smiles on our faces.

00:30:33.200 And Dave will say, Charlie, I really do appreciate it.

00:30:35.600 I think you do good work.

00:30:36.420 I know we disagree.

00:30:37.420 The left doesn't do that.

00:30:38.580 They firebomb your buildings.

00:30:40.160 Or they just don't show up.

00:30:41.660 Or they try to get you fired.

00:30:43.180 They swat you.

00:30:44.000 They harass you.

00:30:44.620 The reason I say it's a cult is because you could not define what they believe.

00:30:49.340 It's impossible.

00:30:50.540 Hassan Piker famously made a video responding to me where he said, I said, the military-industrial

00:30:56.660 complex is a bad thing.

00:30:57.980 The U.S. imperialism imposing its will through financing.

00:31:00.640 He pauses the video and he says, he's completely right on this one.

00:31:03.500 I agree.

00:31:04.140 And then I said, this is why I don't think Ukraine is a special case.

00:31:07.620 Why the U.S. has given Ukraine more money than Israel in two years than Israel got in 50.

00:31:11.980 And then Hassan breaks and goes, this guy actually thinks we shouldn't support Ukraine?

00:31:16.540 Now, be consistent, buddy.

00:31:18.020 Are you concerned about U.S. imperial expansion into foreign countries?

00:31:21.320 Or are you simply pretending that's the case?

00:31:24.180 You could not map the logic of their principles or plan for this country.

00:31:28.460 It's about feelings.

00:31:29.620 I think it is.

00:31:31.500 But if you break it down, it's largely about adhering to the murmuration.

00:31:35.120 The left swings around randomly in random directions.

00:31:38.280 Nobody knows exactly where they're turning left or right or up or down.

00:31:41.100 They're just trying to make sure they stay safely in a position where someone else won't bludgeon them out with a bike lock.

00:31:47.480 So Tesla is a great example.

00:31:49.540 Two years ago, Stephen Colbert bragged on his show he owns a Tesla.

00:31:54.100 Today, he's making jokes about how it's funny that people are firebombing them.

00:31:57.840 Well, that don't make sense.

00:31:59.440 You've got you've got innocent.

00:32:00.740 Yeah, but again, you could play this game both ways.

00:32:02.780 You could say all these people used to say Trump is a loose cannon and is a crazy and whatever.

00:32:07.420 Now they're all in his White House.

00:32:09.100 Some of them.

00:32:10.100 But but I always I always point to tendencies.

00:32:12.800 There is a there is a cult on the right that Trump can do no wrong.

00:32:16.140 And I've criticized these people very heavily.

00:32:17.900 They attacked Joe Rogan.

00:32:19.120 And I'm like, are you guys nuts?

00:32:20.980 Joe Rogan's a moderate who speaks to many different people of all persuasions.

00:32:24.760 Let him cook, bro.

00:32:25.860 And they attacked me for it.

00:32:26.980 I said, I don't I don't give a shit.

00:32:28.280 I was like, you guys are nuts.

00:32:30.360 Well, while vocal, they don't dictate.

00:32:33.180 They don't control.

00:32:33.920 It's true.

00:32:34.400 It's true.

00:32:35.060 On the left, you better adhere or else.

00:32:38.600 So I would say, let's just let's just try and be as fair, I suppose, and say it's two

00:32:45.160 to one cult on the left and two to one not cult on the right.

00:32:48.680 Maybe 30 percent of the right is culty.

00:32:50.620 60 percent of the left is culty.

00:32:51.780 So the even the culty elements of the right will be forced to entertain arguments they

00:32:57.840 do not appreciate or like.

00:32:59.780 The left does not.

00:33:01.700 And more importantly, even those who are rather culty on the right will still try to give you

00:33:07.640 a reason as to why they support Trump, the reason why they've changed their views.

00:33:12.300 Oh, Donald Trump is doing something authoritarian.

00:33:14.480 Well, you know, because of this, that or otherwise, I've changed my mind on the left.

00:33:19.080 It doesn't make sense.

00:33:20.240 Famously, the Coalition for Communities of Color said Slavic people are people of color.

00:33:26.680 So blonde haired, blue eyed Luke Redkowski is a person of color.

00:33:31.800 How the fuck does that make sense?

00:33:33.440 That's the world they live in.

00:33:34.600 Slavs are oppressed peoples.

00:33:36.760 You get the one of my favorite scandals was several years ago, the Wimikson scandal.

00:33:40.920 I know you're probably saying, what the fuck is that word?

00:33:42.820 Woman where the the E is an X.

00:33:45.960 Yeah.

00:33:46.140 And they said, this way, we're being inclusive of all women, including trans women and women

00:33:51.240 of color.

00:33:52.220 Well, within a week of using this, they were attacked by trans activists because they said

00:33:56.820 trans women are women.

00:33:58.400 And by creating a new word, you are now arguing that trans women need a special classification.

00:34:02.900 So you're you're transphobic.

00:34:04.460 Listen, you don't need to persuade us that the left went full retard, genuinely, because

00:34:09.340 we are people who always thought you say liberal, like, that's how we always thought of ourselves.

00:34:13.920 And then we just looked at that and went, oh, my God, what the fuck is going on?

00:34:16.820 And then we got ostracized for saying that.

00:34:18.880 Exactly.

00:34:19.160 Oh, I was curious to ask you, though, is do you think my we were here during the election,

00:34:25.420 before the election and after the election, we were there during that entire time.

00:34:29.360 And a lot of people anticipated a lot of street violence, a lot of protest, a lot of and there

00:34:36.160 was none of that.

00:34:36.880 Like we were in L.A. when the election happened.

00:34:38.860 And the people we've been seeing all over the rest of the country were like, well, you

00:34:43.180 guys are going in to see some riots over there.

00:34:45.500 And it was chill as hell, because I just think everybody accepted the outcome.

00:34:50.760 Do you not think that that look, do you think it's possible that these flare ups?

00:34:57.720 Like the BLM riots of 2020, like the riots we had in the UK, these are part of living in

00:35:04.020 societies that are struggling economically, they're racially mixed, there's et cetera, et

00:35:09.100 cetera.

00:35:10.060 And eventually these things balance themselves out.

00:35:14.680 It's possible.

00:35:15.820 Also, historically, these things turn to civil wars.

00:35:19.120 So pick your history.

00:35:20.180 Which one do you think is going to happen?

00:35:21.240 I don't know that civil war is greater than 50 percent.

00:35:24.140 I'm just saying that when you get all these experts coming out and saying, yikes, we're

00:35:28.100 in civil war conditions.

00:35:28.920 I mean, Jamie Raskin literally said a year ago that should Trump win, we will be faced with

00:35:34.720 civil war conditions and it'll be our job in Congress to tell Donald Trump you are not

00:35:39.060 eligible to be president and deny him that.

00:35:41.240 They didn't do it.

00:35:41.880 I think they realize they lack the, let's just say, wartime resources to actually engage

00:35:49.320 in this.

00:35:50.100 But I think the real reason they didn't is, as Chuck Schumer just said recently, they've

00:35:55.200 planted 235 progressive judges in the federal courts in D.C.

00:36:00.240 Largely, with the intention of blocking Trump no matter what he does.

00:36:03.580 I'm being a little hyperbolic.

00:36:04.840 He said to to stop Donald Trump's agenda.

00:36:07.580 Now we can see the lawful exercise of power that Donald Trump is trying to use is being

00:36:11.360 blocked no matter what.

00:36:12.340 At Absurdum, the president engages in negotiations with a foreign country for the extradition

00:36:18.900 of non-citizen enemies of this nation, street gangs from another country that have been labeled

00:36:24.940 domestic terror.

00:36:26.520 The Alien Enemies Act states the president can do this.

00:36:30.740 And additionally, in 1948, there was a court case, a federal court case, which ruled there

00:36:34.740 is no judicial review for this process.

00:36:36.560 You want to change it?

00:36:38.120 Absolutely.

00:36:38.680 Let's change it.

00:36:39.420 I'm totally fine with that.

00:36:40.360 In the meantime, Donald Trump is within his rights as the chief executive to enter negotiations

00:36:45.400 with the president of a foreign country as for the deportation and transport of criminals.

00:36:50.480 A lower court judge instructed him to return these people to this country, turn the plane

00:36:56.080 around.

00:36:56.900 Now, on the surface, the media is saying Trump can't deport.

00:37:00.760 No, no, no, no, no, no.

00:37:01.600 The judge ruled that Donald Trump must sever his negotiations with a world leader from a

00:37:06.700 foreign country.

00:37:07.940 Imagine it was something more serious.

00:37:09.300 Tim, can I just stop you on that?

00:37:10.580 Because I was reading in a publication in the UK that the reason was because a lot of

00:37:18.460 the guys hadn't been convicted of anything.

00:37:20.780 They don't need to be.

00:37:22.680 1948 Alien Enemies Act, it's already been, precedent has already been set.

00:37:26.480 There is no judicial review for non-citizen combatants under the Alien Enemies Act.

00:37:31.040 Okay.

00:37:31.220 The, the, the, the, the, so the, why do we have a president?

00:37:34.760 Founding fathers were very smart.

00:37:37.260 They got together and they said, should we do a representative democracy?

00:37:40.660 Oh no, it's going to devolve into squabbles.

00:37:42.720 You can't react properly to emergencies.

00:37:44.560 Should we do a council of elders, smart, learned men that we can appoint?

00:37:48.420 Same problem.

00:37:49.680 And then what if you, you get many tyrants and they can't agree?

00:37:53.220 Should we do a King?

00:37:54.140 No, we are, we have problems with Kings.

00:37:56.160 And they said, let's do all three.

00:37:57.720 And they can argue amongst themselves.

00:37:59.320 We'll bestow specific powers among each.

00:38:01.680 That way we give the strength to each.

00:38:03.840 The council of elders review the process of both and determine whether or not they can

00:38:07.300 or can't.

00:38:07.560 That's a Supreme court.

00:38:08.720 Representative democracy will determine the laws of this country.

00:38:11.280 The executive will handle war and the upholding of our laws.

00:38:15.700 Each has the ability to check the other in one way or another.

00:38:18.440 As it pertains to foreign military actions, the president has plenary powers, but he can't

00:38:26.380 declare wars.

00:38:27.440 He can't set the budget for wars.

00:38:30.240 He can simply direct how we, we engage with what Congress determines.

00:38:36.180 If Congress passes a law, say creating the department of education, and they say the function

00:38:40.460 of the department of education shall be a, B and C, the president cannot dismantle it through

00:38:45.640 executive order.

00:38:46.220 The president can, however, instruct the people who are working there to stop using computers

00:38:51.180 and to juggle bowling pins instead, which would effectively shut down Congress's attempt.

00:38:55.840 That's one way they can check that power.

00:38:57.760 In issues of foreign policy, first, the problem we have in this country is we haven't declared

00:39:02.060 war since World War II.

00:39:03.880 Congress has effectively given the executive branch carte blanche, which has been a big mistake.

00:39:08.080 But now when we're dealing with Trenda e Raga, we all know it's a problem.

00:39:11.840 I believe there should be transparency, but these people got the new process they deserve

00:39:16.080 through our system.

00:39:17.100 Trump needs to prove to the public these are the people we claim they to be because we

00:39:21.060 don't want Trump to round up random people and lie about it.

00:39:24.160 Crupt people can do that.

00:39:26.020 However, what's happened with these court rulings?

00:39:28.800 It is not a question of, can Trump do this?

00:39:32.480 It is a question of, should we continue to do this?

00:39:35.660 So the actions Donald Trump took are permitted.

00:39:37.900 And a judge tried to sever a binding international negotiation.

00:39:42.040 If if Donald Trump went to Netanyahu right now and said, stop bombing Gaza or we will pull

00:39:49.760 all military assets from Israel and cut your funding tonight.

00:39:53.540 And then Netanyahu said, no, we're going to double the bombings.

00:39:57.860 Trump then says, load up our planes, send our boys home.

00:40:01.180 Imagine what would happen if a lower court city judge banged a gavel and said, cancel Trump's

00:40:06.780 negotiations with Netanyahu, return all the military assets to Israel so they can continue

00:40:10.240 the bombing campaign, completely undermining our ability to negotiate.

00:40:14.140 A better example would be Trump and Putin.

00:40:16.840 Trump goes to Putin and says, we're going to end the war in Ukraine tonight.

00:40:20.020 You are going to withdraw from the Donbass.

00:40:22.580 Putin says, only if you remove all military assets and support to the Ukrainians.

00:40:27.820 Trump says, done.

00:40:29.780 Then a lower court judge bangs the gavel and says, Trump has no authority to do this.

00:40:33.780 The war remains.

00:40:35.160 If that were the case and that were possible, no world leader would ever negotiate with our

00:40:39.600 president ever again.

00:40:40.820 It would require the executive branch to get permission from lower court judges putting

00:40:45.180 the executive branch underneath the judicial.

00:40:47.120 But a better example than all this is that Donald Trump, as the commander in chief, determines

00:40:51.520 who is fit to serve and who serves.

00:40:53.640 He signed an executive order saying, I'll give you the simple version.

00:40:57.420 If you are suffering from gender dysphoria and exhibiting symptoms, you are barred from service

00:41:02.820 in the military.

00:41:03.880 If you are suffering from gender dysphoria and showing no symptoms, you are fine.

00:41:08.120 We will give you exceptions.

00:41:10.220 Judge Reyes in D.C. ruled Trump cannot discriminate against anyone for any reason.

00:41:15.800 I'm not kidding.

00:41:16.420 Literally, the injunction is preliminary.

00:41:18.720 So it has changed in the past few days.

00:41:21.020 The initial injunction stated, quote, all means all.

00:41:25.160 And any anybody that's actual quote going to say anybody who wants to enlist should be

00:41:29.560 allowed to.

00:41:30.220 This means that bipolar manic paraplegics should be brought into basic training.

00:41:35.460 That makes no sense.

00:41:36.880 Or someone suffering from bulimia who's in basic training and decides after a chow hall,

00:41:41.980 I'm going to vomit all over the floor, must be affirmed in their mental disorder.

00:41:46.680 That's psychotic.

00:41:47.960 And a lower court ruled the president must have them serve his army.

00:41:51.800 That makes no sense.

00:41:53.160 The president could simply say, sure, they're in the military.

00:41:55.980 And now I'm going to go order them to sit in a warehouse in the back corner where they

00:41:59.580 can't do anything.

00:42:00.280 The president can do that.

00:42:01.260 So it looks like, to go back to the initial point, one of the scenarios that I believe

00:42:08.020 is possible, of course, is that we're on the back end of whatever this cold civil war is.

00:42:12.520 The administrative forces that have been seeking to obstruct the MAGA movement, the populist

00:42:16.280 movement, are weak and being crushed.

00:42:18.680 That's why there were no riots after Trump won in 2024.

00:42:22.540 There's just no energy for it.

00:42:24.580 And people are actually fed up with what the Democratic administration had been bringing

00:42:28.460 us. Now, what we are seeing is the first order in Star Wars.

00:42:34.480 The empire is gone, but there still are angry remnants that don't want to give up the fight.

00:42:40.180 I'm hoping throughout the next couple of years, the judges either get impeached or stop and

00:42:47.020 give up.

00:42:47.620 The activists decide the violence isn't worth it.

00:42:49.880 Trump starts arresting these people.

00:42:51.320 The swatters get hunted down by Dan Bongino.

00:42:53.520 The Tesla attacks result in 20-year prison sentences.

00:42:56.440 And then in two years, everything looks kind of like 1997.

00:43:00.080 That may be the case.

00:43:01.340 And I hope it is.

00:43:02.900 Civil strife sometimes doesn't turn into civil war.

00:43:04.780 I'm hoping that's where we are.

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00:44:50.080 And I think one of the things that you touched on, and the thing that I always find shocking

00:44:54.180 here from a purely outside point of view, is the number of mentally ill people that you

00:44:57.680 have in this country.

00:44:59.120 And that, when you have mentally ill people plus easy access to guns, that can create a

00:45:04.140 situation where a presidential assassination attempt can happen, or even, God forbid, an actual

00:45:10.280 assassination, and that's the sort of thing that can spark a civil war, or any type of

00:45:14.680 war.

00:45:14.800 What's the political persuasion of the mentally ill?

00:45:18.560 It's a fact.

00:45:19.560 It's documented.

00:45:21.320 I don't know.

00:45:22.220 Liberals.

00:45:24.060 Not just liberals.

00:45:25.300 Look it up.

00:45:26.660 No, no, no.

00:45:27.720 Hold on.

00:45:28.140 What you're saying is, if you look at the mentally ill population, they skew left.

00:45:33.180 They skew like 60-70% left.

00:45:35.480 The argument from the left is that people on the right don't seek therapy, so they don't

00:45:38.400 get prescribed, perhaps.

00:45:39.920 But overwhelmingly, it is liberal females, followed by liberal males.

00:45:44.820 Liberals have extremely high rates of mental illness relative to conservatives.

00:45:50.000 Let's be real.

00:45:50.820 Someone who's going to throw a firebomb at a Tesla and write long-live Ukraine, they don't

00:45:53.840 know what they're fighting for.

00:45:54.880 They're mentally ill.

00:45:55.620 So, I guess what all we're saying is, it's not like mentally ill right-wing people with

00:46:03.320 guns have never done anything.

00:46:05.400 How many right-wing terror attacks have there been in the United States in the past 10 years?

00:46:10.720 Look, we have the same argument in the UK, which is like, we're told to worry about the

00:46:14.440 far right, when a lot of it is Islamist.

00:46:16.700 We're just, the statement you made is a little bit overgeneralizing.

00:46:20.000 Well, I'm not trying to speak in the episodes, I'm speaking in generalities.

00:46:22.200 If you, and my point is this, why is it that right now, what we see is people who are mentally

00:46:31.340 ill have like a two-to-one rate of leaning towards liberal ideology?

00:46:35.300 Well, because the ideology itself is fractured, and the people like me or like you have abandoned

00:46:41.560 it, or maybe not abandoned, but are no longer a part of it.

00:46:44.540 So, it's not so much a function of, if you're a liberal, you're mentally ill, it's a function

00:46:48.440 of the current iteration of the liberal social cohort is not conducive to a rational person's

00:46:55.740 political ideology.

00:46:56.900 They leave that space, leaving behind only the irrational, creating a higher density

00:47:02.520 of people who are unwell.

00:47:04.160 So, it's the reverse correlation.

00:47:06.840 It's not that you read liberal ideology and your brain stops working.

00:47:10.780 It's that people who don't want violence and are not mentally ill have abandoned it because

00:47:16.900 mentally ill people have been attacking them and destroying their lives.

00:47:19.880 Now, there tends to be a higher proportion of those who are mentally ill attracted to that

00:47:23.720 cohort.

00:47:24.120 Right, okay.

00:47:24.840 But there's also, as well, there's people, I walk out on the streets of New York or any

00:47:28.640 city in America, and I see people who are utterly, utterly sick.

00:47:34.160 They're completely sick.

00:47:35.120 And it's got nothing to do with ideology.

00:47:37.120 Agreed.

00:47:37.520 Yeah, and that is a very, very real problem because that is also showing the fact that

00:47:43.940 you are not looking after these people.

00:47:45.720 These people need to be looked after.

00:47:47.640 Agreed.

00:47:48.180 You know, and...

00:47:49.480 Bring the asylums back.

00:47:52.160 Yeah.

00:47:52.980 Explain.

00:47:53.580 I think it was Ronald Reagan who got rid of the mental institutions.

00:47:56.000 Yeah.

00:47:56.580 You can't put...

00:47:58.140 I worked in the...

00:47:59.600 I worked for a homeless non-profit.

00:48:00.820 I worked for, actually, a couple different versions of either helping starving children or

00:48:05.720 helping homeless and homeless youth.

00:48:07.520 One of the most frustrating things about liberals, we'll give a shout out to our friend Kyle

00:48:13.080 Kalinske.

00:48:13.860 He had made a post about creating, allocating money to homeless shelters and how we won't

00:48:18.940 help the homeless.

00:48:19.820 And the most frustrating thing about it is they don't know the first thing about why

00:48:23.160 these people are homeless.

00:48:24.620 One of my favorite phrases working in this industry at the time, this is 15 years ago,

00:48:28.100 was, feed the homeless.

00:48:30.360 They'd say, we need to raise money to feed the homeless.

00:48:32.120 I said, why are they foodless or are they homeless?

00:48:34.760 Why are you assuming that because someone doesn't have a house, they also don't have

00:48:37.100 food?

00:48:37.680 Because they don't actually know what's going on with these people.

00:48:40.820 Why are people homeless?

00:48:42.000 First and foremost, they choose to be and they want to be.

00:48:44.320 So when I lived in Seattle, you get a group of kids called the Avrats.

00:48:49.700 They lived on University Avenue.

00:48:51.420 They moved from across the country to join this clique of homeless teenage and 20-something

00:48:57.920 year olds.

00:48:59.000 Ain't no way you're getting them off the street.

00:49:00.980 It's their adventure by choice.

00:49:03.220 They do drugs and they party.

00:49:05.200 And the liberals donate money to NGOs.

00:49:07.200 The NGOs know they can't get these kids off the streets.

00:49:09.160 They know they can't stop the drug use.

00:49:11.600 Why are individuals who are down and out, who find themselves homeless, I think the average

00:49:18.880 is two weeks and they're no longer homeless.

00:49:21.280 Guy gets fired from his job as a contractor.

00:49:23.380 Company goes out of business.

00:49:24.440 Can't pay his rent.

00:49:25.800 Falls on hard times.

00:49:27.020 Welfare check doesn't come through or unemployment check.

00:49:29.060 He's outside.

00:49:30.080 Bushy mustache holding up a sign saying, I've lost everything and I don't know what to do.

00:49:33.320 Within two weeks, that guy's within a few days, usually these guys, they go to the

00:49:38.980 shelters, knock on the door and say, I don't want to be homeless.

00:49:42.100 I'm trying to find a place to live.

00:49:44.080 I will do anything it takes.

00:49:45.180 They say, you can sleep here.

00:49:47.360 These homeless shelters, they tend to be empty because the people who are actually consistently

00:49:51.760 homeless choose to be or are mentally ill and cannot be helped.

00:49:56.440 Homeless shelters say, we have a curfew.

00:49:58.180 You're in at six.

00:49:58.960 You can't leave until six.

00:50:00.280 So no one's going to come.

00:50:01.540 You also can't do drugs or drink.

00:50:02.920 No one's going to come.

00:50:04.220 The problem we have in this country is that we used to say, if you are engaged in public

00:50:09.420 lewdness, degeneracy, and I don't mean that in a colloquial sense, I mean literal laws

00:50:13.940 about indecent exposure and obscenities.

00:50:17.460 Yeah.

00:50:17.660 And just again, for people who haven't been to America, like I remember somebody, I was

00:50:23.360 talking to an American and he went, you know, it's like a third world country.

00:50:26.140 And I was like, I have been to a lot of third world countries.

00:50:28.880 I haven't seen this shit.

00:50:30.260 The stuff you see in LA, like we were in Nashville just walking around the town center.

00:50:35.720 There's just like half naked people lying face down on the sidewalk.

00:50:38.600 So we can do, there are solutions.

00:50:41.500 The solutions, I suppose, escape a liberal society, at least of the United States' persuasion.

00:50:47.840 In Northern California, they decided to force conservatorship on the homeless.

00:50:53.580 If you were homeless for a certain amount of time, they would lock you up by force and seize

00:50:58.760 your assets and your income.

00:51:00.620 This was frowned upon.

00:51:02.080 It's fascism.

00:51:03.460 Individuals are free.

00:51:04.200 They can do what they want.

00:51:05.220 Yeah.

00:51:05.500 They said, we got too many homeless people.

00:51:06.900 They're mentally ill.

00:51:08.140 They receive paychecks from the government that they cash and then spend on drugs.

00:51:12.480 We're going to take their money, spend it for them, and use that money to put them in a

00:51:16.720 shelter.

00:51:17.520 Maybe we have to.

00:51:19.000 Is that authoritarian?

00:51:20.360 What if there's someone of sound mind who simply chooses to sleep outside?

00:51:24.260 Is that illegal?

00:51:25.740 Should we make it a crime?

00:51:27.000 They've begun to do so.

00:51:28.520 You can no longer sleep in these cities.

00:51:30.100 West Virginia just passed a law.

00:51:31.440 It's now illegal to sleep in public places completely.

00:51:34.420 Maybe that's what looking after someone actually looks like.

00:51:38.180 If they're mentally ill, that's kind of the point, really.

00:51:40.920 And you're right.

00:51:42.160 From what I understand, from what I've read about it, it's the ideological closing of

00:51:47.220 these facilities, some of which were fucking horrible, by the way.

00:51:50.640 Let's be honest, right?

00:51:51.480 But if you had a place where mentally ill people were properly looked after, that's way better

00:51:55.360 for them than being out on the street.

00:51:56.880 And I also agree with you about the left or liberal, you guys use these words differently

00:52:02.340 to us, which is it's this idea that being in a fentanyl coma on the street is freedom.

00:52:09.920 Right.

00:52:10.320 That's been, they've got very confused about what freedom means, right?

00:52:15.840 Yep.

00:52:16.680 And that is definitely a part of it.

00:52:19.820 But I think Francis's point was that you've got a very tense situation, as you yourself

00:52:24.300 say, a hell of a lot of mentally ill people around.

00:52:27.040 And you do have guns, which means that, I mean, guns are a force multiplier.

00:52:32.960 I don't need to explain that to you.

00:52:33.920 So if you've got someone who wants to do something, it is a hell of a lot easier for them to go

00:52:38.220 and do it than it would be in the UK.

00:52:39.560 Yeah.

00:52:40.680 Sure.

00:52:41.580 Yeah.

00:52:42.400 I'm making your argument for you.

00:52:43.920 Well, I agree.

00:52:45.040 We saw in Seattle and Portland, leftists with powerful weapons taking over parts of their

00:52:53.300 city, Minnesota, Atlanta, and killing people with them.

00:52:56.240 Um, I'm not sure that giving the government sole access to the weapons, uh, to weapons solves

00:53:03.500 the problem for you.

00:53:04.900 So the, the issue of America obviously is not, I don't believe it's the guns, the guns of the

00:53:09.740 force multiplier, which will change the circumstances relative to the UK.

00:53:12.400 The issue is our, our culture, which as I, as I was saying before, you take a population in the UK

00:53:19.840 and in Spain and other parts of Europe, and then only those willing to travel across the ocean for

00:53:25.020 three months and die, make it.

00:53:27.300 Then those people have tons of babies.

00:53:29.300 Guess what culture is going to be spreading?

00:53:31.660 Uh, a, a wild west frontiersman pioneer.

00:53:34.880 Yeah.

00:53:35.040 Like, don't fuck with me.

00:53:36.360 I've got a gun mentality.

00:53:38.080 So that's why we like our guns.

00:53:39.540 And that's why you guys don't be, you know, it is, it is really fascinating.

00:53:43.440 I think about today, the liberals and, and how they handle things and how it probably is

00:53:47.820 into a certain degree, ideologically similar to what it must've been like during the colonial

00:53:52.860 period when you lived in London to very dense population.

00:53:56.140 There's an elite, there's Lords, there's academics and the poor people were like, there's

00:54:01.440 no space for me to be here.

00:54:02.720 I have no free speech, air quotes, freedom of religion.

00:54:06.880 Let's go live in the barren wastes.

00:54:08.620 Let's go build something somewhere else.

00:54:10.760 And that mentality created the United States.

00:54:13.480 But now we're getting soft through luxury and we're becoming more population dense and

00:54:17.720 we're starting to become more ideologically like how Europe was back then.

00:54:20.840 I think also as well, what's really interesting is there's another part of the puzzle that you

00:54:24.740 were founded essentially by religious extremists, like people who were going, I want to practice

00:54:29.480 my religion to this extreme, which isn't accepted.

00:54:32.760 So you are a nation of people who, dare I say it, are a little bit intense.

00:54:38.720 Extremely intense.

00:54:39.800 Yeah.

00:54:40.180 But, but let's not, you know, it's not only the British who came here.

00:54:43.720 Yeah.

00:54:44.340 The Spanish came.

00:54:45.820 Yeah, you let Germans announce it.

00:54:46.940 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:54:47.920 And they're intense.

00:54:49.580 Can I, can I say something just totally off topic, which is really amazing?

00:54:52.280 Yeah, go on.

00:54:52.800 Have you ever seen the flags outside of a store that says open?

00:54:55.980 They have big, they have flags that fly in front of stores and it says open on it and

00:55:00.120 it's red, white, and blue.

00:55:02.480 So to me, it was instantly obvious the history of these flags.

00:55:06.460 I was driving in a car with my wife and I said, notice all the Dutch flags everywhere?

00:55:11.180 And she was like, the Dutch flags.

00:55:13.080 Yeah, the open flags.

00:55:14.120 It literally says open on it.

00:55:15.640 And I said, how much you want to bet when the Dutch came to the colonies setting up trade

00:55:19.940 posts, they flew Dutch flags, which people associated then with marketplaces.

00:55:23.680 So now we traditionally fly Dutch flags with open signs to represent a business.

00:55:27.600 That's exactly what happened.

00:55:29.240 So call, call the country, a bunch of religious extremists.

00:55:32.240 Don't forget a bunch of free market capitalists came here from the Netherlands to sell junk to

00:55:36.300 people.

00:55:36.940 Yeah.

00:55:37.400 By the way, it's, it might be coming across as like we're anti-gun.

00:55:40.500 We, we fire guns every time we come to them.

00:55:42.040 They're great, right?

00:55:42.600 They're great.

00:55:43.040 It's a lot of fun.

00:55:43.960 And I've always said, I like living in a country where we don't have guns.

00:55:48.080 But if I lived in America, I would definitely own a firearm.

00:55:52.240 I feel bad for you guys.

00:55:54.180 They arrested Count Dankula for making a joke, a funny one.

00:55:57.400 And then he followed up with a funnier one.

00:55:59.020 And you got people being arrested for saying naughty words on the internet.

00:56:03.940 The point of guns in the United States may be to protect it from both foreign and domestic,

00:56:09.200 whatever you want to argue.

00:56:10.360 The, the standing militia was the defense of a nation, but there's something that guns do.

00:56:15.120 When a police officer wants to come into your house and arrest you in America, they are

00:56:20.540 terrified they might die.

00:56:21.880 They think twice about it.

00:56:23.260 They want to make sure they have warrants.

00:56:24.820 They want to make sure they have requisite force and they want to make sure they're getting

00:56:28.940 it right.

00:56:30.780 In the UK, there's no fear of that.

00:56:32.380 A little bit.

00:56:33.000 Maybe someone's got a knife, kitchen knife somewhere.

00:56:35.200 But in the UK, they know they can kick your door in and you ain't doing nothing about it.

00:56:38.340 That doesn't mean anybody should be shooting cops, but it does mean that when the police

00:56:42.980 went to the, the, the home of, um, Brianna Gray, was that, they kicked the door and they

00:56:48.980 were terrified and they, they, they had guns.

00:56:53.120 They got shot at, they shot back, shooting her boyfriend, killing her in the process.

00:56:58.060 The left lied about it.

00:56:59.300 That's neither here nor there.

00:57:00.200 The point was police in this country are terrified.

00:57:03.020 If you're a rogue cop and you're going to break the law and you know it, you'll die.

00:57:09.180 And then no one in the system will defend you.

00:57:11.380 I mean, maybe there's dirty cops, but for the most part, cops know if I'm going in, we

00:57:15.420 need to make sure we're doing this clean and proper and knocking because in the instance

00:57:19.740 of Brianna Gray, they yelled, they didn't hear anything.

00:57:23.500 They break the door in, they get shots fired.

00:57:25.940 That's something that all law enforcement's country should be fearing.

00:57:29.020 And I'm glad they do, but nobody should shoot cops.

00:57:31.320 No, we completely agree.

00:57:33.260 But I also think when talking about the first amendment and herty words is you have a first

00:57:38.060 amendment that is really important.

00:57:40.640 It's baked into your culture.

00:57:41.860 It's actually, I would argue the literal best thing about your culture.

00:57:45.660 It's why you're so successful.

00:57:47.440 It's why your economy flourishes because of that, the belief in the being able to share

00:57:53.480 ideas, no matter how controversial we simply don't see it as valuable, Tim.

00:57:57.720 And that's the tragedy.

00:57:58.660 And to my view, that's one of the main reasons we're in the problems that we're in.

00:58:04.340 What does free speech mean?

00:58:06.700 The free speech?

00:58:07.680 What does it mean?

00:58:08.440 Free speech to me means the ability to voice an opinion, however controversial.

00:58:13.680 So advocating for pedophiles?

00:58:15.800 Yes.

00:58:17.200 Advocating for murder?

00:58:21.300 Advocating and inciting are two different things.

00:58:23.140 That's right.

00:58:23.640 So advocating for murder is good?

00:58:24.900 I wouldn't say it's good, but I'd say you should be allowed to do it.

00:58:27.200 I mean, cleared and protected under the free speech philosophy.

00:58:31.520 Well, I'll give it, like, you brought up pedophiles and murder.

00:58:34.960 Like, if someone says, I think pedophiles should be shot, like, I'm down with someone being able

00:58:39.660 to say that.

00:58:40.380 I'm not down with going around and shooting random people who you might think are pedophiles.

00:58:43.680 What about telling someone, if you really hate, insert, if you are really concerned about

00:58:50.640 thing, you would go kill a person.

00:58:53.320 Is that free speech?

00:58:54.300 Give me an example that's not.

00:58:55.780 Like, if a popular Twitch streamer said, if you cared about healthcare, you would murder

00:58:59.660 and then names a prominent US senator.

00:59:02.600 That sounds to me like you're getting very close to incitement.

00:59:05.300 I'm into violence.

00:59:06.360 Really close.

00:59:07.060 So, there are free speech absolutists who disagree with you and say speech is speech.

00:59:12.700 Yeah, yeah.

00:59:13.340 But that's why I've always said I'm not a free speech absolutist for about 53 different

00:59:17.860 reasons.

00:59:18.440 I completely agree with you guys.

00:59:19.400 One of them, by the way, and this speaks to the online conversation we were having, is

00:59:23.880 that once you begin to run a platform, and you see it with everyone who's ever owned a

00:59:30.720 platform of any kind, you can't have it be completely free because even that person begins

00:59:36.140 to impose their own values on the thing.

00:59:37.700 And it says, well, this kind of speech is too far.

00:59:40.320 And there will always be something that's too far.

00:59:43.100 Yeah, it applies to everything.

00:59:44.380 So, what's your point?

00:59:45.740 Well, you said the First Amendment is great.

00:59:48.560 Yeah.

00:59:48.780 The First Amendment was smart in that it created a, I don't know, I would call it a piece of

00:59:55.000 cloth over a river to try and hold the water back.

01:00:00.460 Wade Stotts is a commentator.

01:00:02.860 He's got a bunch of great videos.

01:00:03.800 And one of them, he talked about the Constitution.

01:00:05.280 He says, when you're, what is a Constitution?

01:00:09.160 Constitution refers to what constitutes the body politic.

01:00:12.480 So, in the UK, you claim to have an unwritten Constitution.

01:00:15.460 Actually, most countries have what's called an unwritten Constitution.

01:00:18.180 It implies that the people of this nation agree on what is or is not acceptable.

01:00:22.980 In the United States, because you had a bunch of different states of various values across

01:00:26.340 a large piece of land, you had some of the founding fathers being like, no, no, no,

01:00:30.240 no, you better write this down.

01:00:31.440 Because I don't believe you.

01:00:33.320 Here's the problem.

01:00:34.140 We don't agree on what free speech is.

01:00:35.980 On the extreme ends of what we would describe as the left, they say hate speech is incitement,

01:00:41.200 should not be protected.

01:00:42.500 In the middle, you have the free speech political absolutists, meaning don't incite crimes or

01:00:49.760 violence, but express your opinion.

01:00:51.820 That's where I'm at.

01:00:52.540 And I largely agree, but there are some philosophical challenges.

01:00:55.940 And then you have the free speech absolutists that say words should never be illegal.

01:00:59.220 Telling someone when or how to do something is not an action that you should be at fault

01:01:02.700 for.

01:01:03.240 The problem is, for those of us in the middle, what we're really arguing is that we've determined

01:01:09.940 there's a moral line that should be adhered to, which provides people to communicate,

01:01:14.180 but doesn't provide for crimes.

01:01:15.460 The problem with that mentality, though I agree with you where we should be, that's why I believe

01:01:19.980 morals actually outweigh a lot of what we think are principles.

01:01:23.160 The problem with it is, if I say on paper, you can't incite someone to violence, and then

01:01:30.500 all a judge needs say is, well, if you go online and say all Jews are X and deserve X, you've

01:01:36.420 incited violence.

01:01:37.680 And then we've determined that there is a threshold by which the law can restrict speech that the

01:01:43.060 law, the government, the judges determine would or would not be incitement.

01:01:46.960 The standard that we go by in the United States is creating imminent harm.

01:01:51.940 So if you said, I think person should die, not illegal.

01:01:56.560 If you said someone should kill a person, still not legal.

01:02:00.840 If you said, at this time, I want you to go and do this thing, you have now created an imminent

01:02:06.440 threat, and that is illegal.

01:02:09.080 There still then is the argument that at some point a leftist will get in under that moral

01:02:14.480 philosophy and say, well, I believe calling an entire group of people creates an incitement,

01:02:20.100 and you need only a simple majority to get that codified in law, and then it happens.

01:02:24.140 Yeah, but this is why we shouldn't...

01:02:25.480 I think the problem has been is that people argue about these things in slogans, and there's

01:02:29.900 a lot of sloganeering about.

01:02:31.340 Actually, there's never going to be any clarity.

01:02:34.840 It's always going to be up to some level of debate, unless you say anyone should be able

01:02:38.640 to say anything, which I think ignores the reality of the interconnected world we live

01:02:43.420 in.

01:02:43.720 And somebody could send out a tweet, and if their platform is large, and if enough people...

01:02:48.060 That could cause real-world harm.

01:02:50.840 And that's a fact.

01:02:51.640 And now you're talking about morality-based laws versus principle-based laws.

01:02:56.420 You are arguing that a society should be...

01:02:59.260 Society's laws should be predicated upon what a moral person of your morality should believe.

01:03:06.120 If we were principles-based, we'd say, you can say anything, words are not crime, but

01:03:11.800 we are a moral-based people.

01:03:13.780 We actually determine at some point laws should or should not apply based on our personal morality.

01:03:18.780 We have things called blue laws, for instance, which is laws that were passed that were deemed

01:03:23.660 to blaspheme or to violate Christian tenets.

01:03:27.300 We don't really enforce a lot of these that much anymore, but in Virginia, for instance,

01:03:30.280 you can't sell cars on Sundays.

01:03:32.200 There are certain laws like you can't have a bath on Tuesdays in Boston.

01:03:36.460 I don't know if it's exactly that, but you get the point.

01:03:38.520 Nobody's going to enforce that because it no longer aligns with our morality.

01:03:42.300 So in this case, what's the point of writing the law down if the police do or do not enforce

01:03:46.020 certain things based on what our personal morals are?

01:03:49.160 The Constitution ends up becoming meaningless when you start to look at where we are with

01:03:52.880 a morally divergent society.

01:03:54.600 You have those of the Christian moral tradition.

01:03:57.440 Some are secular, but still adhere to a Christian moral tradition.

01:03:59.660 And then you have the new, I would refer to Peter Boghossian's non-theistic religion

01:04:05.400 of intersectionality or wokeness.

01:04:07.420 Their moral traditions and moral foundation is a mirror image to the Christian or classically

01:04:12.960 liberal moral tradition.

01:04:14.560 The laws invert themselves in this regard.

01:04:16.780 For example, the question I often ask people, do you believe that a parent should have final

01:04:22.020 say as to the medical decisions of their child?

01:04:24.100 Yes or no?

01:04:25.380 Yes.

01:04:26.760 No.

01:04:27.900 No.

01:04:28.460 No.

01:04:29.080 Okay.

01:04:29.380 So this, so...

01:04:30.520 For instance, if a child is going to die because they can't receive a blood transfusion

01:04:34.280 and the parent is Jehovah's Witness and it's a matter of life or death, like, yeah, fuck

01:04:38.960 that.

01:04:39.620 Okay.

01:04:39.780 The child gets a blood transfusion.

01:04:41.280 I haven't considered that.

01:04:41.940 So you've now set the precedent, right?

01:04:44.020 Yeah.

01:04:44.260 In court, if a doctor deems life-saving treatment is necessary, the parents must be overruled,

01:04:50.060 correct?

01:04:50.260 It's very easy to get from there to trans.

01:04:51.760 Yeah.

01:04:51.960 I see what that is.

01:04:52.260 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:04:52.980 Which is exactly what happened.

01:04:54.000 Under the exact same principle espoused by both, you have conservatives saying, we should

01:05:01.340 not allow the state.

01:05:02.660 So you have in Florida, the state should not be allowed to decide for the parents what

01:05:09.060 is right for their children.

01:05:10.320 Trans is out.

01:05:11.320 In California, the life of the child is paramount.

01:05:14.400 The courts must decide.

01:05:15.800 But this also lends itself to another scenario, vaccination and mandated vaccines.

01:05:20.760 So, and abortion, for instance.

01:05:23.740 Depending on what your morality is, your view of whether or not a person has a right to

01:05:28.760 decide for their child changes.

01:05:29.920 Most conservatives would say, I don't think, I say the parent has the final say.

01:05:35.880 Another question for you.

01:05:37.920 Okay.

01:05:38.580 So it's, it's, you said yes, you said no.

01:05:41.980 Yeah.

01:05:42.180 But, but this is not, now, now, before you get into it, this is, this is the point I was

01:05:46.160 going to make.

01:05:46.800 I actually hadn't considered the Jehovah's Witnesses.

01:05:48.900 I'm going to change your mind.

01:05:50.300 I'm going to change both of your minds right now.

01:05:52.420 Well.

01:05:52.660 So you go to California.

01:05:53.920 Yeah.

01:05:54.380 And the parents say, my child is depressed.

01:05:57.500 They go to the doctor.

01:05:58.380 The doctor says, your child is just being a teenager.

01:06:01.740 They're suffering from a depression.

01:06:03.320 It's an episode.

01:06:03.980 They'll be fine.

01:06:04.660 And they say, doctor, no, my child is trans and I want the surgery.

01:06:09.180 And the doctor says, I'm not going to let, I disagree.

01:06:12.320 I refuse to do this.

01:06:14.020 Should the parents be allowed to get transgender surgery for their child if they're seeking

01:06:18.500 active affirmation from a doctor?

01:06:19.740 This is the point I was going to make, which is the reason we litigate all of this stuff

01:06:23.400 to the extent that we do is there are not going to be easy answers.

01:06:26.440 You could go down this route or that route, which is why I'm always, I've always been

01:06:31.140 very persuaded by the argument that the government should be as close to the people as possible

01:06:36.320 because people can then opt into a community that shares their values.

01:06:40.820 This is one of the great things about this country, right?

01:06:42.580 The point I'm making is that your principle is completely meaningless.

01:06:47.020 It adheres only to the moral structure of the community.

01:06:49.500 If you go to a liberal and say a doctor is denying life-saving gender treatment the parents

01:06:54.800 are begging for, if you go to a conservative, should the state intervene to save a child

01:07:00.440 from parents who are going to trans them?

01:07:02.540 They say yes.

01:07:03.520 Should the state intervene to stop, to protect a child if the parents won't let it get trans?

01:07:09.860 The views are inverted on both sides based on morals, not principles.

01:07:14.820 So what's your point?

01:07:16.220 We don't live in a principles-based society.

01:07:18.320 We live in a morals-based society.

01:07:19.920 And if you argue that we have free speech, it stops where your moral line stops and you

01:07:23.800 don't actually believe in free speech.

01:07:25.160 And what's your point from that?

01:07:26.540 That we have a large faction of people in this country, namely when we're talking about free

01:07:31.660 speech or you say that it's enshrined in our public, we don't.

01:07:35.260 We don't have free speech.

01:07:36.640 We have certain moral lines that entertain when it is or is not acceptable to say certain

01:07:40.760 words.

01:07:41.700 And then we protect ourselves from feeling bad about what we think is wrong by claiming

01:07:46.200 we're for free speech.

01:07:47.800 For instance, if you go in public and scream racial slurs, sure, you have free speech,

01:07:54.140 but you'll be canceled.

01:07:55.500 But the left has a much lighter threshold than the right.

01:07:58.280 The right claims we're for free speech.

01:08:00.480 We're for free speech until it comes to the issue of Israel.

01:08:04.440 And now all of a sudden you're going to deport people and shut them down because as the Department

01:08:08.240 of Justice said, this activist's words aligned with Hamas, aligned with.

01:08:12.940 Now, I'm of the, I follow the law.

01:08:15.420 And if you want to change the law, change the law.

01:08:17.940 The Secretary of State has the right to rescind a visa and deport somebody.

01:08:21.760 But let's be real.

01:08:22.880 There are so many people who argue you are being anti-Semitic on campus and we shouldn't

01:08:27.040 allow it that claim they were free speech until it met their moral line.

01:08:31.420 And they said, but that one doesn't count.

01:08:33.040 And I'm not trying to disparage those people for believing that.

01:08:35.420 I'm simply pointing out everyone's going to argue my principles direct me.

01:08:40.440 No, your moral community.

01:08:42.220 I don't think it's everyone.

01:08:42.980 Like for me, for example, look, in that particular instance, I think there are two things that

01:08:48.160 I would say.

01:08:48.660 The first one is, unless someone's been convicted of a crime, I don't consider them a criminal

01:08:53.800 usually.

01:08:55.020 Now, there are exceptions to this, people who are blatantly like got away with it or whatever.

01:08:59.040 But in this guy's case, I don't think there's any clear evidence that he's like a terrorist,

01:09:03.020 even though I, terrorist supporter, even though I'm sure he is, right?

01:09:06.000 But this doesn't, this doesn't pertain to law.

01:09:08.300 How do you mean?

01:09:09.300 The second, under the Immigration and Naturalization Act.

01:09:12.240 I know, I know.

01:09:13.500 You don't need to be a criminal.

01:09:14.360 I understand that.

01:09:15.340 But what I'm saying is, for me, as someone who thinks free speech is important, but also

01:09:19.720 doesn't like Hamas supporters, I would probably err on the side of this guy being allowed to

01:09:24.640 stay in if I was an American citizen, on the one hand.

01:09:27.560 On the other hand, I'm not an American citizen.

01:09:29.600 And when I come here, I don't go around starting protests because it's kind of a douchey thing

01:09:35.320 to do.

01:09:35.700 Like, if you let me in your house, I'm probably going to behave in a slightly different way

01:09:40.080 than I would in my own house, right?

01:09:42.120 So, and Francis and I, like, when we visit the United States, we are respectful to the

01:09:46.680 fact that it's not our country.

01:09:47.840 There are certain things that we may legally be entitled to do here that we wouldn't do.

01:09:53.300 Because when you are an immigrant or a visitor to a country, you need to behave in a way that's

01:09:59.560 not just in accordance with the law, but you have an added responsibility, basically, not

01:10:04.120 to be a dick.

01:10:05.040 I agree.

01:10:05.760 So, the issue is, when it comes to the principles versus morals, if you believe in free speech,

01:10:12.700 when do you stop?

01:10:14.080 Where is your line?

01:10:15.060 And the point is, free speech in its purest form is absolutism.

01:10:19.300 You can say whatever you want.

01:10:20.500 Do you believe all people have a right to free speech?

01:10:22.800 Well, now you're going to find a mix of morals on the right.

01:10:25.620 Many on the right are going to say, yeah, yeah, yeah, but only for American citizens.

01:10:28.380 I never meant for non-citizens to come here and speak against our country.

01:10:31.700 And they're being honest.

01:10:32.960 They never did.

01:10:33.800 There was a period where we all agreed what the left is doing with big tech is violating

01:10:38.340 our free speech.

01:10:39.660 Of course, to be honest, the left then conflates the First Amendment with free speech, which

01:10:43.200 are two completely different things.

01:10:44.640 But then when it comes to the issue of should we deport a green card holder, temporary green

01:10:49.700 card holder, because of his speech, a lot of people are going to say, well, yeah, absolutely.

01:10:54.700 To be fair, he organized protests that took over buildings and threatened staff and

01:10:58.220 caused fights and led to violence.

01:10:59.820 So I'm actually I have no problem with that guy being deported.

01:11:02.800 I just think that you get these anti-Semitism bills that are getting passed where like

01:11:07.440 universities can't allocate funds or allow for certain protests.

01:11:10.440 Otherwise, we'll pull funding.

01:11:11.640 It goes against American foreign policy.

01:11:13.280 And I'm like, I have no problem with you doing it.

01:11:16.140 I see that's where your morals lie.

01:11:17.800 I just like to point out to everybody who claims they support free speech.

01:11:21.260 I bet I can find a point at which you will say that's not free speech.

01:11:23.860 So for like Myron Gaines, for instance, said I'm for free speech.

01:11:27.540 And I said, what about porn?

01:11:28.660 No, porn is not free speech.

01:11:30.160 OK, well, the woman on the show who was an OnlyFans creator said, absolutely, it is.

01:11:34.320 It is my expression.

01:11:35.680 It is my views.

01:11:36.600 And it's age age gated and costs money.

01:11:39.000 Why can't I do it?

01:11:40.460 Two different complete moral lines on whether one thing is free speech or not.

01:11:43.200 So I bring this up because where we are right now in this country, you have Donald Trump

01:11:49.540 trying to engage in actions which are largely popular, maybe depending on it's tough.

01:11:56.640 For the for the for the first time in 20 years, the country is on the right track to the highest

01:12:02.080 degree.

01:12:02.520 I mean, single polls don't mean much to me, but we're seeing some form of this, despite

01:12:07.020 the fact that people kind of don't approve of Donald Trump, his aggregate approval ratings

01:12:10.780 are in the margin of error, which is really good for him, by the way.

01:12:13.620 But a lot of what he does is popular.

01:12:16.520 You have people now arguing when we should or should not obey judges on the left.

01:12:23.920 The liberals, liberal is a colloquial term in the United States for the left faction is

01:12:27.780 a really mean liberal.

01:12:28.900 They are willing to imprison lawyers.

01:12:31.340 They are willing to cheer for violence, engage in violence.

01:12:34.180 They have, in many instances, more than the right, murdered people.

01:12:37.980 And that's in line with their morality.

01:12:40.780 When it now comes to Trump and the right having power to use, Republicans are often mocked

01:12:45.980 for refusing to use it.

01:12:47.560 We could expel Democrats from Congress right now.

01:12:50.100 Al Green for not only was he to be censured for interrupting the not so State of the Union,

01:12:56.040 State of the Union.

01:12:56.840 But when he was being censured, he, along with many other Democrats, blocked the proceedings

01:13:00.660 and obstructed it.

01:13:01.640 And Johnson simply adjourned.

01:13:04.000 Should we not use power to the degree that they have used?

01:13:06.400 But it's against our principles.

01:13:07.580 Is it?

01:13:08.900 Our moral world is being crushed by these people.

01:13:11.660 Do we decide today we will defend our moral worldview and traditions by any means necessary?

01:13:17.840 Or will we keep saying that we afford our enemies special privileges they do not afford us?

01:13:22.860 My view is that, I'll say 10 years ago, I was free speech for everyone, even if we don't

01:13:28.720 agree.

01:13:29.360 I don't agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death you're right to say it.

01:13:32.240 And then they bludgeoned me over the head with it and tried to destroy my life.

01:13:34.640 And I said, that was stupid of me.

01:13:37.100 Free speech is for those that live within the confines of our moral community.

01:13:40.900 If you are an individual who's a communist and you stand up for free speech at every

01:13:45.060 turn, you reject violence and say, one day I hope we achieve communism, I would say, well,

01:13:50.620 I think your idea is dumb, but if they ever come to censor you, I got your back.

01:13:54.720 Most communists, however, celebrate your demise and advocate it and try to make it happen.

01:13:59.480 In which case I say, why would I avoid them quarter?

01:14:03.340 My view is we have rights in the United States.

01:14:06.600 We protect the rights of those United States, even if they're not citizens.

01:14:09.440 There's a varying degree of how much you will be protected and what your due process, what

01:14:13.140 process you are actually do.

01:14:15.540 We don't extend that to jihadis or ISIS or Soleimani.

01:14:18.960 So if you are Abdulrahman Al-Awlaki, a 16-year-old American citizen, and you're eating dinner

01:14:24.680 in Yemen, Barack Obama has no right to murder you, which he did.

01:14:28.700 And this is, in my view, because he was the son of Anwar Al-Awlaki, a terrorist.

01:14:33.640 I think the message Obama was trying to send to the world is that if you speak against us,

01:14:36.480 we'll murder your children.

01:14:38.040 Anwar Al-Awlaki was a jihadi.

01:14:39.760 He was an American, though.

01:14:40.940 He was in a foreign country.

01:14:41.900 I believe he was in Yemen.

01:14:43.180 Barack Obama had no right to murder him.

01:14:45.220 American citizens are of order protections anywhere they are in the world.

01:14:47.780 You can't just murder Americans.

01:14:50.220 Here's where things get tricky.

01:14:51.800 What if that American is running towards American troops with a machine gun?

01:14:54.480 Okay, well, that's self-defense.

01:14:55.540 Like, we understand, you could be in America.

01:14:57.280 Obama ordered a drone strike to kill a guy, arguing he's an enemy combatant.

01:15:00.820 He doesn't deserve trial.

01:15:02.180 No, he has to get trial.

01:15:03.460 So the issue I see is we don't extend the same rights to our enemy combatants and adversaries

01:15:09.420 around the world.

01:15:10.740 Why would we do the same?

01:15:12.420 Why would we do the inverse for the domestic enemy?

01:15:14.280 I hate to say the word enemy, but when you have far leftists firebombing vehicles and

01:15:18.920 smashing them up and destroying things, why would I defend their protests, defend their

01:15:22.920 free speech, or defend their moral worldview when they don't do it to me?

01:15:26.400 Because you can defend their free speech while also seeing them convicted for the crimes they

01:15:30.340 commit.

01:15:30.800 I'm not going to engage in a war over a moral worldview and the future of my country where

01:15:38.720 I extend privileges and benefits to those who seek to kill me.

01:15:41.440 Well, those aren't privileges and benefits.

01:15:43.800 Those are the rules by which society operates.

01:15:46.680 I would agree with 83% of Americans that Abraham Lincoln is the greatest president we've

01:15:51.020 ever had.

01:15:52.040 When you ask them who the greatest president was, that's who.

01:15:54.840 And you know the funny thing about Abraham Lincoln was he arrested a large portion of the

01:15:58.640 Maryland legislature because they were sympathetic to the Confederacy.

01:16:02.860 He created a corridor that abolished or suspended habeas corpus between Pennsylvania and Washington,

01:16:08.340 D.C. so that he could arrest anyone without charge or trial.

01:16:12.860 That's what Abraham Lincoln did to preserve this union and stomp out moral evil in the Confederacy.

01:16:17.900 And we love him for it.

01:16:19.440 So I don't think 83% of Americans love him for doing that.

01:16:22.700 No, but they don't know better.

01:16:23.860 They don't know about that, I would imagine.

01:16:25.400 And so if you, and this is the, this is the conundrum of, of our principle, our view that

01:16:30.600 we are principled individuals.

01:16:32.140 When you go into, if you go to someone and say, would you support a, if, if, if right

01:16:36.820 now states started arming up in support of Donald Trump and in defiance of the courts

01:16:41.840 and the judges, would you support a democratic individual suspending the constitution to shut

01:16:47.940 down Trump?

01:16:48.940 You, you'd, you'd find a mixed bag among liberals and, oh, I, I, I know that's terrible.

01:16:52.620 If, if, if, how about this?

01:16:54.320 If Joe Biden, if Donald Trump tried to steal the presidency on January 6th, would you support

01:16:59.820 Joe Biden sending in the national guard to shut down Donald Trump and arrest anybody on

01:17:04.220 those Capitol grounds with or without evidence to stop the insurrection?

01:17:07.580 They're probably going to say yes.

01:17:09.700 People might tell you they don't like what Abraham Lincoln did, but they're more than happy

01:17:14.280 to tell you how much they love the results.

01:17:15.660 And so the question then becomes, do we play this game of, for PR reasons, I'm going to

01:17:21.360 pretend like Abraham Lincoln was the bad guy, or do we say in times of war, a wartime president

01:17:27.820 makes difficult decisions, which are outside what our principles purport to be?

01:17:31.740 But we're not in a time of war.

01:17:32.880 And it's also as well, Tim.

01:17:34.280 No, we're not.

01:17:35.160 So when, Tim, can I just make a point?

01:17:37.240 And this is some, right.

01:17:38.840 Okay.

01:17:39.660 We'll come to that in a second.

01:17:41.040 When you take, when the government takes away rights, it is very difficult, if not almost

01:17:47.160 impossible for you to get them back.

01:17:48.840 Can we just agree that?

01:17:50.000 Yes.

01:17:50.500 So you are willing to give up rights in this society for the government to then come in

01:17:57.140 and then enact against the enemies.

01:18:00.740 When have humans ever not done that?

01:18:02.620 Give me one example.

01:18:03.900 One.

01:18:04.100 In civilized society.

01:18:08.680 Not true.

01:18:09.440 In World War II, the United States implemented the U.S. Office of Censorship and banned people

01:18:13.940 from...

01:18:14.540 It's interesting that you say this because all anti-Ukraine people in America keep calling

01:18:19.500 Zelensky a dictator for having martial law, which is in line with the Ukrainian constitution

01:18:23.620 and not having an election like the U.K. didn't have.

01:18:26.220 Well, he declared it and the constitution says that he can declare it and Congress can uphold

01:18:30.040 it.

01:18:30.440 There's an argument that it can be, he can overturn it.

01:18:32.820 Well, my point is...

01:18:33.920 But I agree, in a time of war, presidents do crazy things.

01:18:36.700 But you are stretching the definition of war way beyond this remit.

01:18:41.340 No, I'm not.

01:18:41.820 It's called fifth and sixth generational warfare.

01:18:44.060 So we have technological advances in conflict and they alter how we perceive what war is.

01:18:49.440 If you go back to the earliest days, what is the purpose of a conflict?

01:18:52.080 Why do wars happen?

01:18:53.460 Sometimes they're silly.

01:18:54.540 You don't believe in the same God as me, so you must be destroyed.

01:18:57.720 I mean, these are largely silly, but they have to do with cultural cohesion.

01:19:00.620 So they come from somewhere, from an evolutionary psychological perspective.

01:19:04.460 But typically, it's resource conflict.

01:19:06.280 Resource is the principal driver.

01:19:08.480 I do think it's absolutely hilarious that the East India Trading Company engaged in warfare

01:19:12.080 that resulted in the death of 50,000 people because black peppercorn was a delicacy, was

01:19:15.760 a luxury in Europe and the U.K.

01:19:17.840 But typically, it's, I don't have enough food or water and I will take it and my people

01:19:22.500 will not die.

01:19:23.360 I don't care how I have to get it.

01:19:25.080 And it's the same thing you see at the root level with a man who steals bread because his

01:19:29.660 family is hungry or whatever.

01:19:30.880 We still frown upon it.

01:19:32.240 So the generations of warfare, they evolve.

01:19:35.340 We see the advents of new technologies and new methodologies in warfare all the time.

01:19:38.880 If the purpose of warfare is to secure control of a population so you can control its resources,

01:19:43.120 a tendency for that reason.

01:19:45.400 Sometimes it's, you know, my God is better than your God and your people must adhere to

01:19:50.240 my worldview and my beliefs.

01:19:51.940 So in the United States, we are going through, and this is not my opinion, this is academics

01:19:56.900 who have assessed what warfare is.

01:19:58.840 You get to fourth and fifth generational warfare, now sixth, which people are going to argue

01:20:03.780 it as we form these ideas in academia, sixth may change.

01:20:06.840 But fourth and fifth have to do with online political manipulations, manipulations of influence,

01:20:13.500 technologies, and use of insurgency.

01:20:16.260 Today, it's fair to say that we are in a kinetic conflict.

01:20:20.240 Civil strife began several years ago in the United States.

01:20:23.120 Civil strife is not civil war, but there are many people dying.

01:20:26.260 One of the easiest examples, of course, is Aaron Danielson took two bolts to the chest

01:20:29.200 from a far leftist Michael Reinhold with a communist tattoo on his neck for no reason.

01:20:32.220 And now we have the swatting, swattings of conservatives and the firebombings of Tesla

01:20:36.680 facilities for the specific goal of destroying a company for political reasons, for which

01:20:41.100 now Tesla stock has gone down.

01:20:42.500 Partially, it's not the only reason.

01:20:43.820 And we've seen Tesla evicted from the Vancouver auto show out of fear of terror attacks.

01:20:48.460 This is war.

01:20:49.780 Now, it may not be full blown hot kinetic conflict, but when you have the arrest of Donald Trump's

01:20:56.540 lawyers, we are dealing with administrative warfare, which is a degree of administrative

01:21:01.460 conflict, which we don't see in previous times based on communications technologies.

01:21:06.520 If you go back several hundred years, how do I secure control of a population?

01:21:10.080 I occupy their street corners with weapons and my weapons are better than yours.

01:21:13.220 You've got clubs.

01:21:14.260 I've got pointy sticks with metal on them.

01:21:16.400 Eventually, we have airstrikes, air raids, howitzers, nuclear artillery and machine guns.

01:21:21.160 I send my guys to your country.

01:21:22.540 They stand in the street corner.

01:21:23.400 You do as you're told.

01:21:24.560 The people are mad about it.

01:21:25.500 They might fight back.

01:21:26.800 Today, it's actually really easy.

01:21:27.940 I will flood your community with information that terrifies you as to what is true and

01:21:32.540 what is not.

01:21:33.360 So you are occupied.

01:21:34.980 Notably, we saw the use of sock puppets in the Arab Spring, largely in Libya, where based

01:21:40.880 on a report from Project PM, the United States Air Force was purchasing from private security

01:21:44.960 contractors sock puppet social media accounts.

01:21:48.100 One individual would operate 50 fake social media accounts to create the public perception

01:21:51.800 that the overthrowing of Gaddafi was the right thing to do.

01:21:54.520 The Americans then supported airstrikes and the collapse of the Libyan government, which

01:21:58.580 I think is largely a horrifying thing.

01:22:00.420 Not that I much care for Libya, but now you have the North African slave trade reigniting

01:22:04.280 and militias blowing each other up.

01:22:06.160 Why did Americans support it?

01:22:07.800 Because fourth generational, fifth generational warfare was waged on the American people to

01:22:12.680 make them feel like they were under occupation, figuratively, but in a sense, literally as well.

01:22:18.520 Why put a man on a street corner with a machine gun when you can simply inundate them with fake

01:22:24.840 accounts to convince them you must do this or else?

01:22:28.420 So what we end up with is the era of cancel culture and those bending the knee quite literally

01:22:33.200 to an ideology.

01:22:34.740 Did most people agree with intersectional feminism and woke ideology?

01:22:38.280 Of course not.

01:22:38.700 It's a minority.

01:22:39.680 Why did so many people let it happen?

01:22:41.280 Because they feared that there was some group that would come after them and destroy them.

01:22:45.020 They feared that they were under occupation, that the institutions are controlled.

01:22:48.920 I will lose my job.

01:22:49.800 I will lose my livelihood.

01:22:50.960 My bank will freeze my accounts.

01:22:53.680 My social media will remove me from society.

01:22:55.760 I have no choice but to live this way, even though I don't like it.

01:22:59.020 That is war, but it's changed.

01:23:01.040 And they want you to believe that you're not fighting a war.

01:23:03.200 But as the faction of bureaucrats and powerful elites who have been running these companies

01:23:07.700 have been engaging in this war, they've become increasingly more desperate as we, those of

01:23:11.660 us who believe in more enlightenment principles and have opposed this,

01:23:14.620 have started to break through and shift dramatically to the point where Donald Trump actually was

01:23:19.680 able to win.

01:23:20.880 Now we have desperation and desperation begets more hot conflict.

01:23:24.780 This is why I believe we may be on the back end of this conflict.

01:23:27.300 We may be coming off of it.

01:23:28.420 But the idea that to go back to, you know, a wartime action from a president, I'd put it

01:23:34.060 this way.

01:23:34.800 What does that mean in today's context?

01:23:36.820 Am I arguing that Donald Trump should go round people up without charge or trial?

01:23:39.420 Absolutely not.

01:23:40.060 That should never happen.

01:23:40.580 Trump made it, he jokingly said, but probably only half jokingly, the people who are firebombing

01:23:46.480 Teslas, maybe they can spend 20 years in an El Salvadoran prison, which I hear are not

01:23:50.820 so good.

01:23:52.020 Mr. President, I do not appreciate you entertaining, violating the Eighth Amendment.

01:23:56.700 American citizens who commit crimes go to American jails and they should be treated with

01:24:00.140 dignity and respect, even if we despise them.

01:24:02.500 So I don't appreciate those jokes.

01:24:03.900 And if it comes to that, and he actually tries sending American citizens to El Salvador, I

01:24:08.420 will be opposed in every form that I can.

01:24:11.400 And it's going to be interesting if it gets to that degree.

01:24:13.800 That being said, what it comes to an actual wartime president in Trump is when Trump issues

01:24:20.080 a legal order, executive order saying, we will not have these people in our military.

01:24:25.700 I'm the commander in chief.

01:24:26.660 He's allowed to do it.

01:24:27.300 If a judge tries to stop him in this administrative conflict, Donald Trump, I believe, is obligated

01:24:33.480 to say, I have heard the ruling from the court.

01:24:36.340 Now try and enforce it, which is a play on Andrew Jackson's famous quote when the Supreme

01:24:40.040 Court ruled against him.

01:24:41.280 In the conflict we are in, this guy wasn't the Supreme Court.

01:24:46.100 There's a whole legal process yet to go through, which is part of the American process.

01:24:49.740 Now, I appreciate what you're saying, but it just sounds to me like you're redefining

01:24:54.820 wars to give yourself more power.

01:24:56.500 Which is what every dictator has always done in history, which is to say, the situation

01:25:02.300 is so bad, I need extra power to deal with this.

01:25:04.580 Is Abraham Lincoln a dictator?

01:25:05.520 Well, look.

01:25:06.780 Yes or no?

01:25:07.680 We are not in a war situation.

01:25:09.420 Is Abraham Lincoln a dictator?

01:25:10.680 We are not in a war situation.

01:25:12.320 Was Abraham Lincoln a dictator?

01:25:13.800 We are not in a war situation, is the point.

01:25:16.180 Okay, you're right.

01:25:17.420 I'll just say, you're right.

01:25:18.240 Okay, now, is Abraham Lincoln a dictator?

01:25:19.560 So, look.

01:25:20.660 Yes or no?

01:25:22.060 Tim, the theoretical examples you give.

01:25:24.560 It's not a theoretical, it's American history.

01:25:25.740 Fine, but it's not related to the current moment, which is what we're talking about.

01:25:29.560 So, in the context of...

01:25:31.540 Let me just lay out the argument that you made.

01:25:33.500 If I represent it incorrectly, you tell me.

01:25:36.100 The core of your argument that you're making, right, is that because we are in a fourth,

01:25:40.700 fifth, sixth generational warfare situation, a different set of rules ought to apply.

01:25:46.420 It's a wartime.

01:25:47.140 And therefore, just like you can apply martial law, just like you can suspend this or this

01:25:51.060 or that or whatever, right?

01:25:52.340 And the point I'm making to you is, this is the argument that every dictator in history

01:25:56.540 has made.

01:25:57.260 Now, I don't know American history as well as you, and maybe the point that you make

01:26:02.720 about Abraham Lincoln is relevant in some way.

01:26:05.040 But what I'm saying to you is something completely different, which is, we're not in a war.

01:26:09.980 Okay, so let me ask you a question.

01:26:11.300 Yeah.

01:26:12.780 Was Abraham Lincoln a dictator, yes or no?

01:26:14.560 I don't know.

01:26:15.360 You don't know.

01:26:16.020 If a leader suspended the right to due process for all peoples, is that a dictatorial move?

01:26:23.180 It depends on the context.

01:26:24.500 So, like right now, if Trump said, I'm suspending the constitutional rights and due process for

01:26:27.900 far-left terrorists.

01:26:30.200 Look, I'm not a legal scholar.

01:26:31.540 That seems pretty fucking extreme to me.

01:26:33.820 Yeah.

01:26:33.940 What if Donald Trump decided he was going to arrest the Washington, half of the Washington

01:26:38.380 state body because they were voting in favor of groups that were attacking Tesla facilities?

01:26:44.900 What does that mean, voting in favor?

01:26:46.520 So, let's say in their state body, someone proposes a bill that they will not arrest nor

01:26:53.480 provide any assistance to any individual, any individual in their state who's caught firebombing

01:26:58.600 Tesla facilities or other right-aligned institutions, the state will not enforce the law against

01:27:04.380 them, nor will they aid federal law enforcement.

01:27:06.340 Yeah, I don't know what the answer to that question is legally, but my point to you is-

01:27:10.140 So, like, this is the problem.

01:27:11.860 If you don't know and you have no thoughts on the matter, then I don't know what we're

01:27:14.680 arguing.

01:27:15.280 You can simply say, Tim, maybe you're right.

01:27:16.580 I don't know.

01:27:18.300 No, that's not what I'm saying.

01:27:19.320 I'm taking the argument that you're making and interrogating it as I do with every other

01:27:23.480 guest on the show.

01:27:23.800 So, what I'm saying to you is, you've made the claim that we're in the war in order to

01:27:29.480 be able to justify suspending the rules applying equally to everybody.

01:27:33.620 That's basically what you've done, right?

01:27:35.080 So, it's commensurate to the conflict.

01:27:37.760 When I look outside, I don't see a war that justifies that.

01:27:41.800 When you look outside in a largely liberal jurisdiction where everyone agrees with each

01:27:45.100 other, you don't see anything justifying?

01:27:46.980 No.

01:27:47.320 We've traveled around the United States plenty.

01:27:49.600 And, uh...

01:27:50.840 I have never seen anything that justifies instituting martial law in this country.

01:27:54.740 Firebombing of Tesla facilities, the shooting of them up, the murder and killing of people

01:27:58.120 for political purposes.

01:27:58.620 That should be dealt with through the criminal justice system.

01:28:01.140 So, uh, first, uh, you are incorrect.

01:28:04.180 I'm not arguing that, uh, the conflict we're in right now warrants anything close to what

01:28:09.540 Abraham Lincoln did.

01:28:10.580 Okay.

01:28:11.200 Well, you kept bringing him up.

01:28:12.220 That's why I made that assumption.

01:28:13.300 Because I'm trying to understand what your philosophical and moral view is of a president who does such

01:28:17.980 things at a time.

01:28:18.580 And what I am saying to you is you can't compare a context...

01:28:21.560 And I'm not.

01:28:22.220 ...of a civil war with...

01:28:23.720 I'm asking you right now...

01:28:24.980 Yeah.

01:28:25.380 ...based on the American civil war and what was going on, was Abraham Lincoln a dictator

01:28:29.480 for suspending habeas corpus and arresting politicians?

01:28:31.860 Which is sidestepping my point, which is right now...

01:28:35.240 I don't think you can answer the question.

01:28:36.460 I already did answer the question.

01:28:37.800 You did.

01:28:37.860 You're ignoring the question.

01:28:38.940 No, I answered the question by saying you know more about it than me.

01:28:41.480 Uh-huh.

01:28:41.820 You remember that?

01:28:42.480 So, do you want to say I don't know?

01:28:43.840 I already said that.

01:28:44.920 So, you're not sure.

01:28:46.240 I've already said that.

01:28:47.080 But what I'm saying is the example you're bringing up is not relevant to the current

01:28:50.140 situation.

01:28:51.300 Should Donald Trump invoke the Insurrection Act and send U.S. Army into California, Oregon,

01:28:57.680 and Washington to start hunting down and arresting the terrorist cells that are organizing these

01:29:01.440 attacks?

01:29:01.680 No, I think the law enforcement can take care of that.

01:29:05.520 They're not doing it.

01:29:07.060 What do you mean they're not doing it?

01:29:08.160 Well, I mean, we've had far-left terroristic cells operating with impunity in many of these

01:29:13.500 jurisdictions.

01:29:14.440 So, let's take a look at, you know, the Chaz Chop, for instance.

01:29:18.580 I mean, we know those people are.

01:29:19.700 They're not in jail.

01:29:20.520 Should Trump go and arrest them?

01:29:21.840 Statute of limitations not expired on those.

01:29:23.040 Yeah, I don't know how the American legal system works enough to answer that question,

01:29:26.040 but should those people be arrested?

01:29:27.100 Absolutely.

01:29:28.020 Okay, if the state law enforcement refuses to do so, should Trump invoke the Insurrection

01:29:32.100 Act and go do it?

01:29:32.900 I don't know enough about the Insurrection Act, aren't you?

01:29:34.680 The Insurrection Act is when Donald Trump can use National Guard or Army to enforce,

01:29:39.860 I believe National Guard, to enforce laws if the local jurisdictions refuse to do so.

01:29:45.020 Well, on that definition, it seems like you should.

01:29:47.060 That's literally the Insurrection Act.

01:29:47.880 Well, if that's the definition, if the local law enforcement refuses to enforce the law,

01:29:52.640 then that sounds right.

01:29:53.920 But see, you keep throwing out these hypothetical examples, which I understand.

01:29:58.820 From my point of view, what I'm saying to you is just taking the logic of your argument.

01:30:02.640 I'm not arguing about these specific details.

01:30:04.580 You're saying we're in war, therefore we should suspend the rules applying...

01:30:09.240 No, I'm not saying that.

01:30:11.160 That is what you said.

01:30:12.500 I think you're misunderstanding what...

01:30:14.640 Perhaps.

01:30:15.460 You're misunderstanding wartime, and you're believing that wartime means men are on a battlefield

01:30:20.680 shooting at each other.

01:30:21.700 Okay, but that's exactly what I'm saying.

01:30:23.620 And you're saying wartime means people are spreading propaganda on social media.

01:30:27.500 Therefore, if whoever I like is in charge, they've got to be able to act in a way that

01:30:31.980 currently isn't compliant with the law.

01:30:34.820 So...

01:30:35.100 And I'm saying to you, I don't think people are spreading propaganda on social media just

01:30:39.360 I believe that your country is conquered, and it's because of your moral philosophies

01:30:44.840 and ideologies.

01:30:45.980 They are weak, and they allow to be destroyed.

01:30:48.160 What do you mean by conquered?

01:30:49.080 Well, I mean, you've got a large influx of non-citizens with psychotic, violent beliefs

01:30:54.000 that are chopping people's heads off in the street.

01:30:56.200 You're not allowed to talk about it without going to jail.

01:30:58.820 You've got rape gangs that have been operating for decades.

01:31:01.780 I look at the UK, and it's like, you've got a political body threatening to extradite American

01:31:07.620 citizens for us expressing our opinions in our own country.

01:31:10.660 You can't have screwdrivers in public.

01:31:12.700 Look, the things that your country has done to its citizenry is shockingly insane to an

01:31:16.620 American.

01:31:17.300 And it's absurd that you have such a massive influx of a disparate ideology coming into

01:31:23.300 your country and imposing its will on you, and you do nothing about it.

01:31:26.780 And in fact, your government largely protects, supports, and votes for it.

01:31:30.980 I mean, that's insane.

01:31:32.620 I...

01:31:33.000 Hold on.

01:31:33.180 Oh, no.

01:31:33.480 Wait, wait, wait.

01:31:34.040 Slow down.

01:31:34.820 So, first of all, there are lots of us who don't agree with what's happening and say...

01:31:39.700 What are you doing about it?

01:31:40.280 Well, let me just answer your question.

01:31:43.260 So, there are lots of us who disagree and are voicing our opinions about it.

01:31:49.400 I'm as concerned as you are about the fact that some people are visited by the police.

01:31:54.860 I'm one of the most outspoken people in the UK about that.

01:31:57.580 That's not to say that you can't express disagreement with what's happening, and you will instantly

01:32:02.200 go to prison.

01:32:04.420 Well, instantly, but a lot of people...

01:32:06.960 I mean, people, whether it's Speaker's Corner or whatever, I'm not as familiar with the

01:32:11.440 name of the location, getting arrested.

01:32:14.100 People getting arrested for speech is something that shouldn't be happening.

01:32:16.420 A woman who is standing outside of an abortion clinic with her eyes closed getting arrested?

01:32:19.860 What's your point?

01:32:20.520 I've already said that there are lots of us who disagree.

01:32:22.340 What are you doing to stop that?

01:32:23.680 Well, there is a very large political movement that's organizing in exactly the same way that

01:32:27.900 there's a political movement in this country against the...

01:32:29.740 How did it get to that point in your country?

01:32:30.880 ...overreach of the left.

01:32:32.160 It got to the point because there are lots and lots of people who believe a lot of this

01:32:37.260 progressive ideology in our country.

01:32:39.880 Do you think that at a certain point, violence will break out between two different factions

01:32:43.240 in your country?

01:32:43.840 Well, we've already had it.

01:32:44.900 And I think it's credible that that could continue to be the case as these tensions brew.

01:32:50.080 Absolutely.

01:32:50.340 So what it means to be a wartime president, the point I'm making is that Trump used commensurate

01:32:55.020 actions against those who engaged the actions against him.

01:32:57.980 Okay.

01:32:58.420 What I'm saying is Keir Starmer in our country during the riots could do the exact thing that

01:33:04.940 you're demanding.

01:33:05.400 He could say, well, look, these people are rioting.

01:33:07.500 They're attacking the police.

01:33:08.760 I need special powers to put these people in prison for a tweet.

01:33:11.940 That's the logic of your argument.

01:33:13.840 Every country ever has done this.

01:33:16.600 And the view that you take is dictators do this.

01:33:19.760 Abraham Lincoln wasn't a dictator.

01:33:21.320 Abraham Lincoln was a president who saw actions that were seditious.

01:33:24.940 And he took, there was one man who thought Abraham Lincoln was a dictator.

01:33:28.540 So Keir Starmer should be able to put rioters in prison for tweets then on your logic.

01:33:32.960 Why would I agree with your moral worldview?

01:33:35.400 But you're saying-

01:33:36.340 I'm on the other side of that moral worldview.

01:33:37.340 Oh, I see.

01:33:38.060 So if a right-wing Keir Starmer is in power, then he's allowed to put people in prison for

01:33:42.300 tweets.

01:33:42.980 I didn't say people should go to prison for tweets ever.

01:33:45.780 No, but I asked you-

01:33:46.760 Right, so if there are riots that are being promoted on social media-

01:33:52.420 So wait, wait, wait.

01:33:52.940 You're saying that if an individual promotes riots on social media, they should go to jail?

01:33:58.140 No, that's what you're saying.

01:33:59.540 They should, yes.

01:34:00.620 Right.

01:34:01.060 Okay.

01:34:01.520 But only if the person in charge is right-wing.

01:34:04.160 If the person in charge is left-wing.

01:34:06.160 Right.

01:34:06.420 So I don't think your government should arrest people for posting their opinions on social

01:34:10.020 media.

01:34:10.440 Okay.

01:34:10.860 If a person goes online and says, everyone meet up at this place, we're going to burn it

01:34:14.200 all down, here's the address, you lock them up.

01:34:15.900 Well, I say lock them up irrespective of who's in power and what their opinions are.

01:34:19.880 Agreed.

01:34:20.580 Whereas-

01:34:21.120 What do we disagree on?

01:34:21.880 I think what we're disagreeing on is you believe that if the situation's bad enough,

01:34:26.360 a guy that you agree with politically should come in and suspend the rules by which we

01:34:31.120 play the game of politics.

01:34:31.960 Give me any country ever where that's not been the case.

01:34:34.600 I don't understand what your point is.

01:34:36.920 Name any point in history when an executive and authority facing an emergency decided not

01:34:42.280 to engage in-

01:34:43.020 Oh, I don't disagree with that.

01:34:44.420 What I'm disagreeing with you is-

01:34:45.980 Do you think that your country will be the exception that survives the conflict?

01:34:49.080 Tim, you've got to let me finish my argument before you disagree with it.

01:34:51.700 What I'm saying is you're extending the definition of war, wartime, and emergency in order to

01:34:59.440 suit your agenda is what it sounds like.

01:35:01.420 You are incorrect.

01:35:02.340 Okay, why am I incorrect?

01:35:03.380 Because I've already described fourth and fifth generational warfare academic terms that

01:35:06.900 describe a state of conflict in which a faction of people is trying to take power from another

01:35:11.080 Well, that's what we disagree about, right.

01:35:12.400 What I see-

01:35:13.200 It's not an issue of disagreement.

01:35:15.360 I'm giving you an academic statement as to what it is-

01:35:18.000 Which I'm entitled to disagree with, right?

01:35:19.920 Sure.

01:35:20.080 When I travel around, whether it's Europe or the UK or America, I don't see a state of

01:35:25.500 conflict-

01:35:25.800 You're just disagreeing with the definition.

01:35:27.100 Yes, exactly.

01:35:28.300 So, for me, it's the easiest to use the American Civil War because it's what is attached to

01:35:33.680 our history.

01:35:34.720 Do you think in 1861, in September in Atlanta, people walked outside and were fighting each

01:35:40.040 other?

01:35:41.080 Look, the American Civil War is clear in our expertise for you, which it isn't for me.

01:35:45.720 I'm talking about what I see out here.

01:35:48.420 So, let me try and explain to you what I'm saying.

01:35:50.280 Sure.

01:35:50.440 Who are the belligerents in the American Civil War?

01:35:54.420 Are you familiar?

01:35:55.960 Tim, did you hear what I just said?

01:35:57.900 This is why- I'm asking you a question.

01:35:59.560 So, what you're doing-

01:36:00.300 I'm genuinely trying to know if you know something so I can explain it to you.

01:36:02.880 And I just said it's an area of expertise for you, which it isn't for me.

01:36:05.680 So, I assume most people know who the belligerents were in the American Civil War.

01:36:10.040 It was the North and the South.

01:36:11.480 Yes.

01:36:11.900 You are aware of that?

01:36:13.080 Yes.

01:36:13.480 Okay.

01:36:14.320 I was not trying to get you.

01:36:15.700 Okay.

01:36:15.940 I need to know if you know this, because if you don't, I would tell you it's the North

01:36:18.740 and the South.

01:36:19.160 Okay, great.

01:36:19.760 The Confederacy and the Union.

01:36:20.980 Okay.

01:36:22.080 No one in the Confederacy walked outside and saw a conflict.

01:36:25.860 No one in the Union walked outside and saw a conflict.

01:36:28.560 The front line was Gettysburg.

01:36:30.360 Yes, but that doesn't prove that America is in a Civil War now.

01:36:33.700 There are lots of times when people walked outside and-

01:36:36.060 I didn't say we were in a Civil War.

01:36:37.760 What?

01:36:37.980 I said we were in a fourth and fifth generation of warfare.

01:36:41.780 You didn't say we were in a Civil War?

01:36:43.220 I said I don't-

01:36:44.220 Yes, so, let's go back in time.

01:36:45.820 I said, I don't know if what happens now turns into a Civil War.

01:36:48.660 Right, right, right.

01:36:50.000 I actually think it's probably less than 50%.

01:36:52.220 Yes.

01:36:52.840 I think we may be on the back end of whatever this conflict is.

01:36:55.620 Okay.

01:36:56.120 Fourth and fifth generational warfare does not mean a country is in a state of active war

01:37:00.640 and wartime presidential powers.

01:37:02.580 This is why I tried saying several minutes ago, I don't think you understand what wartime

01:37:05.660 presidential powers is a reference to.

01:37:07.280 Okay, maybe not.

01:37:08.000 It is the use of commensurate force against a force exerting power at you first.

01:37:12.940 That is, when administrative powers in New York, Wisconsin, and Georgia begin arresting Trump's

01:37:20.180 lawyers, which defies the Constitution and is outside of the legal code of the United States,

01:37:25.400 right?

01:37:25.580 That is dictatorial.

01:37:28.500 Trump's response cannot be, I guess I have to let him happen.

01:37:32.140 It must be, I must stop them from doing this.

01:37:35.600 It is a violation of the Constitution.

01:37:38.340 Right?

01:37:39.260 Okay.

01:37:40.340 If there are two factions and one is violating the law, we should stop them.

01:37:45.080 Agreed.

01:37:45.780 What we are dealing with over the past four years is forces aligned with what we would

01:37:49.760 call the Democratic Party, the liberals, whatever you want to say, the bureaucratic state,

01:37:52.240 the deep state, have violated the Constitution in numerous ways.

01:37:56.720 This is what I refer to as fourth and fifth and sixth generational warfare.

01:38:01.780 Warfare does not mean kinetic conflict.

01:38:03.680 Okay, so what do you, so I can, now I understand the argument, perhaps we were talking cross

01:38:07.400 purposes.

01:38:08.220 So what you're saying is what they've done over the last four years is unconstitutional

01:38:12.020 and wrong.

01:38:12.960 And therefore it justifies what?

01:38:15.500 Trump using commensurate forces to stop the unconstitutional.

01:38:18.340 What's commensurate forces?

01:38:19.820 The Insurrection Act.

01:38:21.460 I mean, and what would that, again?

01:38:23.240 Donald Trump can call upon the National Guard to go into California, Portland, and Oregon and

01:38:26.840 arrest Antifa.

01:38:28.120 The states aren't doing it.

01:38:29.580 Right.

01:38:30.080 He can have the feds start doing it, which they've done a little bit.

01:38:33.020 If the states refuse to enforce, or immigration law, for instance, and I think immigration law

01:38:37.420 is another point of advanced warfare, Trump should invoke the Insurrection Act to utilize

01:38:42.200 the powers he has to the greatest degree to start enforcing a law that is not being done

01:38:46.520 locally as he is allowed under the presidency.

01:38:49.700 If I were to say Trump should go arrest an attorney's, the attorney's general from three

01:38:55.120 states, would that be dictatorial?

01:38:57.460 I don't know enough about it.

01:38:58.640 The attorney's general and the head of law enforcement for each state.

01:39:00.960 Yeah, I know.

01:39:01.560 I know what an attorney general is, but I don't know what the context would be in American.

01:39:05.280 Look, you're clearly much better versed.

01:39:07.360 My job is just to ask you to try and understand what you're saying.

01:39:10.200 My point is that if Donald Trump were to do so, he'd be called a dictator for arresting

01:39:13.500 top political politicians in these states.

01:39:16.460 Yeah.

01:39:16.720 But in three states, the attorney's general have violated the Constitution and targeted innocent

01:39:22.200 individuals in ways that is shocking to the American psyche.

01:39:25.240 However, largely on the Democrat side, they're in favor of it regardless.

01:39:29.220 These are people who clapped and cheered when Jordan Klepper on The Daily Show showed images

01:39:33.700 of terror attacks.

01:39:35.100 He literally called them acts of domestic terror and they clapped and cheered for it.

01:39:38.880 Are we supposed to just say Trump should carry on as normal?

01:39:44.160 No, Trump's going to have to use what we would describe as wartime president.

01:39:49.380 Again, let's clarify these points.

01:39:51.620 There are various forms of warfare.

01:39:53.080 There's psychological warfare.

01:39:54.820 Warfare can be waged without a declaration of war.

01:39:57.520 Civil warfare can happen without there being an active civil conflict or extended conflict.

01:40:01.920 You can get limited warfare.

01:40:04.900 That's what Kissinger referred to.

01:40:07.260 And what we're dealing with right now is fourth and fifth and entering a new generation of

01:40:12.060 warfare, which what people would argue is sixth.

01:40:14.280 Fourth generational warfare is insurgency.

01:40:16.600 That's what we've been seeing with Antifa on the far left.

01:40:19.060 The purpose of fourth generational warfare is to make you scared to live a certain way.

01:40:23.620 Vancouver canceled, evicted Tesla from the auto show out of fear of firebombs and shootings.

01:40:29.380 That's the purpose of fourth generational warfare.

01:40:32.960 Should Donald Trump simply say we do nothing?

01:40:36.280 Now, to be fair, that's Canada.

01:40:37.500 But I'm saying in the United States where Tesla chargers and dealerships have been vandalized,

01:40:41.200 shot up.

01:40:41.640 The only question for me, like, I think the only thing that we might be disagreeing about

01:40:46.300 is one thing and one thing only, which is let's say that Donald Trump and his team and

01:40:53.200 his people for the next four years do a reverse of what the left has been doing based on your

01:40:58.280 description, which is they violate the Constitution.

01:41:00.660 They fail to enforce it in some areas, et cetera.

01:41:03.120 Would you then be happy for whoever is the Democrat president after that to do the things

01:41:08.900 that you are now advocating that President Trump does?

01:41:11.020 That's the only question.

01:41:11.840 I think that is a naive question.

01:41:15.040 Because?

01:41:15.500 That doesn't entertain the realities of history and everything that's ever happened.

01:41:19.340 I would be unhappy with literally any amoral degenerate enforcing whatever laws that support

01:41:25.540 amoral degeneracy.

01:41:26.380 It doesn't matter if-

01:41:27.840 No, I'm talking about the Constitution.

01:41:29.380 So here's the issue.

01:41:31.000 If the right violates the Constitution-

01:41:32.680 This is why I explain morals versus principles first.

01:41:34.780 Yeah.

01:41:35.520 If I said we must uphold the right of parents to make medical decisions for their children,

01:41:41.460 that is a power I have granted to Donald Trump to stop the mutilation of children.

01:41:46.400 Yes.

01:41:47.340 These school districts and these doctors that are taking kids away from their parents because

01:41:52.260 the kids think they're trans and they're being groomed online, we must stop this.

01:41:56.760 However, that same principle empowers Democrats to take the children away from parents who

01:42:01.620 are protecting their kids from gender identity.

01:42:02.920 So that sounds like a no to me.

01:42:04.420 You wouldn't support a Democrat president enforcing the Constitution in the way that you want Donald

01:42:09.360 Trump to do.

01:42:09.840 The reason why I answered the way I did is not to avoid the question, but to point out

01:42:13.360 that the average person would not understand what yes or no means morally if I were to give

01:42:19.800 a simplistic answer.

01:42:20.880 Well, look, the point you're making is the left has violated the Constitution.

01:42:25.400 Therefore, Donald Trump needs to invoke the Insurrection Act in order to-

01:42:28.840 Let me slow down.

01:42:30.160 Let me slow you down there.

01:42:31.200 My argument is an administrative war has begun as of 2015 when they accused Donald Trump of

01:42:39.360 being a Russian spy.

01:42:40.400 They accused the frontrunner for the Republican Party of being a traitor to his nation for which

01:42:44.180 the penalty is death, sought to impeach and imprison him, and obstructed an entire presidential

01:42:49.520 administration.

01:42:50.420 They arrested several people in his sphere who did nothing wrong.

01:42:53.400 They destroyed the lives of people like Carter Page and Michael Flynn who did nothing wrong.

01:42:57.560 This is- I'm sorry, but for everything they accused Trump of doing, they started.

01:43:03.920 Trump's response can't be, we don't arrest politicians.

01:43:07.340 It's not what we do in America.

01:43:08.200 No, it's- they've already been doing that.

01:43:10.800 We need investigations of Adam Schiff, the J6 committee.

01:43:14.800 We need investigations of Letitia James.

01:43:16.880 We need- of Wisconsin and Atlanta who arrested lawyers.

01:43:22.720 Both of these states arrested lawyers.

01:43:24.000 Well, if anyone's broken the law, of course they should be investigated.

01:43:26.460 But I'm asking you a very different question.

01:43:28.240 And I think it speaks to the core of our disagreement, which is, the question is, do you want the

01:43:34.900 constitution to be enforced irrespective of who's in power?

01:43:37.800 Do you not?

01:43:38.480 And it's really as simple as that, right?

01:43:40.160 No.

01:43:41.420 Because?

01:43:42.060 This is why I started the conversation with the discussion of morals versus principles.

01:43:44.940 No, I understand that.

01:43:45.980 The idea- so when I explained to you, when I asked you what free speech meant-

01:43:48.800 Yes.

01:43:49.240 The constitution does not and never did protect free speech.

01:43:53.420 Now, the structure of the constitution outside of the Bill of Rights, I largely respect, which

01:43:56.560 lays out the three branches of governments, the powers they have, and I agree with.

01:43:59.740 I don't want that to be dismantled.

01:44:01.300 However, at the advent of the Bill of Rights, you couldn't blaspheme or swear in public.

01:44:06.700 In fact, you couldn't swear in public in the 1970s.

01:44:08.640 Free speech was never protected.

01:44:09.620 The question you're asking me is, do I want my moral worldview of today to be protected

01:44:15.080 and upheld?

01:44:15.860 And would I be upset if another person came in and tried to destroy it?

01:44:18.940 But that happens all the time, no matter what.

01:44:21.400 So it's not a question of, if I say, Donald Trump, please protect my moral worldview, would

01:44:26.220 I be upset if someone who opposed my worldview got in power?

01:44:28.600 Well, of course I would.

01:44:29.640 I was upset when Joe Biden won the election and opposed my moral worldview.

01:44:32.840 The question is the degrees of power which we are using to use to preserve our world.

01:44:37.040 The Democrats, for a long period of time, have been destroying this country.

01:44:41.560 And it wasn't always the Democrats.

01:44:42.900 The Republicans were on board until Trump came in.

01:44:45.260 The MAGA movement and the populist movements of the left and the right, which have some

01:44:48.580 overlap, largely diverged from what we had in our two-party system.

01:44:52.840 When the borders were opened up and you had industrialists allowing millions of non-citizens

01:44:57.300 to come into this country for the purpose of GDP growth to adhere to some ridiculous modern

01:45:02.180 monetary theory, the country was being destroyed.

01:45:04.660 We opposed this.

01:45:05.700 What did we do?

01:45:06.260 We used commensurate power as was used against us.

01:45:09.360 And what was that?

01:45:10.500 Protests, conversations, podcasts, and elections.

01:45:13.400 Then we got Donald Trump being accused of being a spy.

01:45:16.040 They tried to destroy his life.

01:45:17.420 There has been no commensurate response on the right.

01:45:20.260 Donald Trump then lost an election based on, one, largely many of his own failings and an

01:45:25.740 inability to understand the laws that were being implemented.

01:45:28.640 The Democrats in several states violated the Constitution by allowing judges and executives to overrule

01:45:34.140 state legislatures elections, which violates, I believe, Article 1 of the Constitution, which states that elections shall be determined by the legislatures, not judges or executives.

01:45:43.140 When Texas petitioned the Supreme Court in Texas v. Pennsylvania in 2020 to overrule these states that were in violation of the Constitution, the Supreme Court said, we will not hear it.

01:45:54.060 Why?

01:45:54.220 The Supreme Court is largely afraid that if it becomes exposed culturally, they have no enforcement mechanism, the country falls apart.

01:46:01.900 The best thing they can do in questions of this intensity is to stay out of them, which they've continually done, proving the Supreme Court to be largely impotent.

01:46:10.420 There has still not been commensurate action from the right as to what the left has been doing.

01:46:15.880 The flooding of this country with I'm going to give the low estimate of 10 million non-citizens given preferred access, given protected status or given money in places like New York.

01:46:25.140 This erodes the foundation of what our ancestors built for us and what we intended to pass down to our children.

01:46:30.920 Gen Z can't afford houses, as you already stated.

01:46:32.920 The American dream is dead for them.

01:46:34.220 Yet in New York, non-citizens are given luxury hotels and PlayStations.

01:46:38.020 This is a betrayal of the American people.

01:46:40.720 All Donald Trump has done so far is what the Constitution allows.

01:46:45.660 Coming from a rather classical liberal or civil libertarian view growing up in the United States, I feel that it's evolved once you start to learn from history and you look at warfare, civil wars.

01:46:56.340 What I see now is the establishment and institutions, which have been run by what we would call the deep state or the uniparty or whatever for 30 years, have violated the Constitution every which way imaginable over the past 10 years, to which the right has not responded in any commensurate force.

01:47:13.460 I do not want a president to violate our Constitution.

01:47:17.180 I do not want anyone to do so.

01:47:18.300 But it's been done.

01:47:19.420 Some have argued it's been done quite a bit by many presidents throughout history.

01:47:22.320 The issue now is that it actually threatens the fabric of, quote unquote, our democracy.

01:47:25.760 I think it's time that Donald Trump and the administration, I believe they actually are doing this, begin to enforce the law against political forces, attorneys general, and those who violated the Constitution.

01:47:37.360 The challenge there is that this is what I refer to as a wartime president.

01:47:42.500 If Donald Trump were to arrest attorneys general who violated the law, and they have, if he were to go after the politicians, the Democrat personalities who lied and advanced what I refer to as a criminal conspiracy or seditious conspiracy, he will be accused by the other faction of being a dictator, which will result in an escalation of force from their side, of which I don't view there as an off ramp.

01:48:04.460 I hope that these factions have largely lost power and they're waning and that the arrest and prosecution of those who have committed crimes that we can't prove would avert any kind of great crisis.

01:48:18.780 In the event that this escalates into actual kinetic conflict, which it kind of already is at the civil strife level, I mean, the Tesla attacks, the shootings, et cetera, and for a decade plus, you will then see commensurate force from the alternate factions.

01:48:34.460 Against each other, from the two factions against each other.

01:48:36.540 The reason I bring up Abraham Lincoln is when the South decided to secede illegally from the Union, Abraham Lincoln arrested the state legislature, large portions of it, from Maryland because they were engaged in seditious conspiracy in support of the Confederacy.

01:48:50.800 There was a man who called him a tyrant for doing so, and it was John Wilkes Booth, and thus the tyrant, Sixth Emperor Tyrannus.

01:48:57.800 Of course, the people who oppose the actions of those who win will always accuse them of violating the law, the Constitution, or otherwise.

01:49:04.280 It is history.

01:49:06.100 Ulysses S. Grant wrote a great letter after the Civil War explaining,

01:49:11.020 All peoples have a right to defy those who rule over them, but when you lose, you will be ruled over by your superiors.

01:49:20.300 If it comes to great conflict, which was not brought by the right moderates, post-liberals or otherwise conservatives, then I hope they win.

01:49:29.040 And I hope they do what must be done to win to preserve what we view as our moral worldview.

01:49:35.500 The left we would describe in this country is engaged in violence and doesn't share that moral worldview, and I believe they're poised to accelerate and escalate this conflict.

01:49:43.340 I just hope it doesn't actually get there.

01:49:45.500 Well, so do I, but why do you think they're poised to accelerate?

01:49:50.040 I would actually say there's no evidence to suggest they would de-escalate.

01:49:55.360 There's no indicators of de-escalation.

01:49:57.220 In fact, we've only seen them cheering on and calling for more violence.

01:50:02.980 After the killing of Luigi Mangione, Bill Burr, the comedian, prominent liberal, he said billionaires should be put down like dogs.

01:50:11.600 He then said free Luigi several times, and he continues to attack the wealthy and advocate for murder.

01:50:18.140 Jimmy Kimmel and Stephen Colbert mocked the terror attacks.

01:50:21.320 Some interpreted that as a permission or a call for more or social acceptance.

01:50:25.200 Jordan Klepper on The Daily Show played several clips of terror attacks against Tesla facilities, which include public shootings, mass shootings.

01:50:32.580 And the audience cheered for it, to which he responded, wow, you guys like petty acts of domestic violence.

01:50:38.740 I'm sorry, of domestic terrorism.

01:50:40.120 These people are publicly cheering for more.

01:50:44.480 They're going online and saying, do it.

01:50:46.800 There's viral videos across TikTok, Instagram, and X where people say, do it, and you know what I mean.

01:50:51.460 One woman recently got a visit from the feds because she said, it will be me.

01:50:55.500 I'm going to.

01:50:56.200 None of them have said what it is, but everyone knows what it is.

01:51:01.420 Well, that's why these people need to be dealt with through the criminal justice system quickly.

01:51:06.000 And as you say, they need to be given, you know, the proper sentences for the crimes that they're committing.

01:51:10.160 The list of people you are asking to have put in prison is so large, it would overwhelm our prison system.

01:51:16.240 Well, then maybe you're going to have to build more prisons, but.

01:51:18.620 Or send them to El Salvador.

01:51:19.640 Well, like you said yourself, you don't want that.

01:51:22.400 Anyway, run out of time.

01:51:23.740 Great to have you on.

01:51:24.420 Good to have the conversation.

01:51:25.300 Um, what's the one thing we're not talking about that we should be?

01:51:29.360 Before Tim answers a final question at the end of the interview, make sure to head over to our sub stack.

01:51:34.360 The link is in the description where you'll be able to see this.

01:51:38.500 What concerns, if any, do you have of the current management of Twitter, stroke X, and potential free speech risks on there?

01:51:44.960 Why has no one been able to create a viable competitor to YouTube?

01:51:48.540 What constitutes America first?

01:51:51.320 What's the one thing we're not talking about that we should be?

01:51:53.220 The United States has passed a series of laws that make it illegal for individuals to take work on an individual basis.

01:52:00.960 We call, we call these Uber laws started in California.

01:52:05.320 The state was concerned about losing tax revenue to gig services.

01:52:08.180 So they banned individuals from working as independent contractors up to a certain amount of contracts or products.

01:52:16.340 West Virginia, this has deeply affected me, has outright banned independent contracting.

01:52:22.920 This means you're either the employee of a corporation or a corporation.

01:52:26.500 34 states in this country have done so.

01:52:28.740 The end result of this is that your children will one day say, Dad, I'm broke.

01:52:33.360 And the only response you will have for them is, have you considered applying at Amazon?

01:52:38.200 You won't be able to rake your neighbor's lawn.

01:52:40.300 You won't be able to sell lemonade.

01:52:42.000 They've made that illegal.

01:52:43.400 There are, again, 34 states that have variations of this law on the books.

01:52:47.340 This is one of the largest steps taken in.

01:52:50.180 You will live in the pot and you will eat the bugs.

01:52:52.360 And no one's talking about it.

01:52:54.080 That's crazy.

01:52:54.840 All right.

01:52:55.720 Head on over to Substack where we'll put your questions to Tim Paul.

01:52:58.960 Does Tim have any thoughts as to why Russia were apparently willing to pay such a relatively large amount of money via Tenet Media to fund his podcast, albeit unknowingly to Tim himself?

01:53:13.120 We'll be right back.

01:53:43.120 In Beautiful, the next musical mega hit is here, the Neil Diamond Musical, A Beautiful Noise.

01:53:48.800 Now through June 7, 2026 at the Princess of Wales Theatre.

01:53:53.000 Get tickets at Mirbish.com.

TRIGGERnometry - May 04, 2025

Civil War in America？ - Tim Pool

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