TRIGGERnometry - Comedian Discriminated Against for Being White - Tyler Fischer

00:00:00.600 So I'm sitting there like, all right, here we go, finally, it's all happening.

00:00:05.380 And he goes, we hit a snag, we really love you, we think you're a star, but we're not taking white guys. 0.98

00:00:14.540 I miss the old days, you know, when you just treated people by how they were, you know? 0.99

00:00:18.720 Someone was a dick, you're a dick to them, someone's nice, you're nice. 0.98

00:00:21.020 Now they're like, oh, I don't think so. 1.00

00:00:23.140 I said, is that company policy?

00:00:25.260 And he said, yeah, it is.

00:00:27.760 And so, you know, I hung up and I was crushed.

00:00:34.140 You have to look at their skin color, their gender.

00:00:37.140 There's a whole checklist of things you have to do before you even say hello to somebody. 0.59

00:00:40.560 It makes you crazy.

00:00:41.800 Lots of sleepless nights and a lot of pain and having some of my heroes hate me.

00:00:48.680 People don't want to know your story, right?

00:00:51.060 They can attack you, but nobody knows what I've gone through and survived.

00:00:55.620 You're going to reach a point and it's going to likely be financial or a job was taken away or your daughter's job. 1.00

00:01:02.500 It's like the people that come after me, I go, well, what if your white daughter was told, fuck off, you're white, you can't be an actor? 1.00

00:01:08.840 You know, the pendulum will swing back and I'm going, the pendulum is broken out of the fucking clock. 1.00

00:01:14.300 And it's just like slamming everyone in the head. 0.94

00:01:29.040 Hello and welcome to a very special episode of Trigonometry on the Road from the USA.

00:01:36.660 Today, I'm Francis Foster.

00:01:38.560 I'm Constantine Kissin.

00:01:39.660 And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.

00:01:45.340 Our brilliant guest today in what is a very hot studio, hence why we're all dressed like we're on a Hawaiian beach somewhere,

00:01:51.320 is a brilliant comedian, podcaster, YouTuber.

00:01:54.640 A little bit controversial at the moment because he's suing a potential manager for saying he can't work with him because of his race.

00:02:01.760 I can't talk about that.

00:02:04.780 So, Tyler Fisher, welcome to Trigonometry.

00:02:07.680 Thanks for having me.

00:02:08.760 It's great to have you here, man.

00:02:10.260 We're in New York, which is where a lot of cool comedy stuff is happening.

00:02:14.540 Tell everybody before we get into all of that, who are you, how are you, where you are,

00:02:18.900 what has been the journey through life that leads you to be sitting in that chair?

00:02:21.660 This chair right here.

00:02:22.800 Francis snuck into my DMs, took me out to coffee.

00:02:26.120 He does that.

00:02:26.720 I took him out to Starbucks, which was a bit of a letdown.

00:02:29.980 So, yeah, I am a comedian, actor.

00:02:34.860 I started in theater, theater, and then studied, actually studied in London a little bit.

00:02:43.220 Dropped out of acting school in London.

00:02:47.600 Couldn't take the theater kids.

00:02:49.780 I don't know if you've been around them.

00:02:51.220 Yep, I have.

00:02:52.220 They're like the cousin of comedians.

00:02:54.680 It's all kind of wretcheded up a little bit.

00:02:57.180 Moved to New York City, started doing film, TV, stand-up, theater, and then started making

00:03:04.460 my own sketches, my own videos.

00:03:08.360 And now I'm a touring comedian and living the dream.

00:03:13.540 Living the dream, indeed.

00:03:14.920 And, you know, your sketches are brilliant.

00:03:16.920 Like some of the stuff you did during the pandemic about vaccines and all of that.

00:03:21.260 It's really good.

00:03:21.900 Hi, this is a little message to the unvaccinated. 0.60

00:03:27.720 You are killing everyone. 0.98

00:03:30.680 It's your fault. 1.00

00:03:31.800 You're being selfish.

00:03:32.920 So, get the vaccine.

00:03:34.000 Because I'm vaccinated.

00:03:35.200 I am vaccinated.

00:03:36.480 Okay?

00:03:37.080 And so, I'm protected because the vaccine is safe and effective.

00:03:40.600 So, if you're around me and you're unvaccinated, then you're putting me at...

00:03:45.180 Well, you're not.

00:03:46.660 You're...

00:03:46.900 Okay.

00:03:48.000 So, you're selfish because if I'm protected and you're around me, then I'm...

00:03:52.900 Then I'm fine.

00:03:53.900 But you're...

00:03:54.380 But you're me...

00:03:55.380 Sorry.

00:03:56.060 If you're not vaccinated, then you're not...

00:03:59.880 It's your... 0.99

00:04:01.020 You're racist, is what I'm saying. 0.99

00:04:05.240 It's really good. 0.97

00:04:06.060 And you're a great impressionist as well.

00:04:07.980 But one of the reasons we wanted to have...

00:04:10.280 Speaking of impressions, I heard Mark Norman was just here.

00:04:12.520 I can still feel his, hey, hey, hey, comedy.

00:04:16.260 I'm gay.

00:04:16.680 What are we doing? 0.99

00:04:17.980 You're gay. 1.00

00:04:18.220 You're gay. 1.00

00:04:19.140 Is that why this is... 0.99

00:04:20.320 The tear's all torn up because he moves around.

00:04:22.260 What are we doing?

00:04:23.300 I love Mark.

00:04:24.040 Yeah.

00:04:24.340 Mark's great.

00:04:25.380 But one of the reasons we wanted to have you on is obviously this situation with you

00:04:29.540 and a potential agent, manager, where you were about to get signed.

00:04:36.640 They said they really liked you.

00:04:38.620 And then they were like, we can't work with you because you're a white guy.

00:04:41.720 Yeah, and they're going to use this clip because it is about 100 degrees in here and I'm sweating.

00:04:46.640 So I'm picturing in a year when we're in court, they're going to cut to this clip and go,

00:04:50.360 look at him, he's sweating through it.

00:04:51.880 He's probably lying about all of it.

00:04:54.680 Yes, yes.

00:04:55.400 So what happened?

00:04:56.400 So what happened?

00:04:58.180 This has been happening for about 10 years.

00:05:00.840 Every once in a while, a casting director would say, hey, I want to submit you for this job,

00:05:06.480 but we're not really doing a white guy thing right now.

00:05:09.560 Okay, that's interesting.

00:05:10.720 And it happened more and more frequently.

00:05:14.980 I'd be booked on a podcast, get a text, hey, not the best time to have a white guy on. 0.61

00:05:20.240 Yeah, sorry about that.

00:05:21.620 Yeah, thanks, guys.

00:05:23.140 Yeah, that was, yeah.

00:05:24.660 You guys weren't even famous yet. 1.00

00:05:27.260 Assholes. 1.00

00:05:29.840 British white is fine. 1.00

00:05:31.580 Or you seem tan-ish.

00:05:33.100 Yeah, exactly.

00:05:33.780 What are you?

00:05:34.480 I'm, so I'm originally from Russia, but the face is like Greek and Jewish.

00:05:40.440 Okay, all right.

00:05:41.120 That's why I thought it was.

00:05:41.700 You know, it's funny.

00:05:42.340 I auditioned for an animated voice today, and I was telling you guys, and the description

00:05:48.220 was 30 Caucasian, but the guy looked like you, but darker.

00:05:53.420 Right.

00:05:53.940 So now they won't even show white guys as white.

00:05:56.480 Yeah.

00:05:56.580 I think that's become illegal.

00:05:57.660 Yeah, you've got to be at least tanned.

00:05:59.700 Yeah, exactly.

00:06:00.740 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0.66

00:06:01.380 We don't want someone who's actually white. 1.00

00:06:03.120 Or white and sweating. 0.99

00:06:04.160 White and sweating.

00:06:04.780 That's me as well right now.

00:06:06.580 But you know what-

00:06:07.180 Can you have the temperature on the screen during this?

00:06:09.700 Just so people understand.

00:06:11.880 That's what we need.

00:06:12.480 But it's funny the way you talk about-

00:06:14.340 I'm doing great.

00:06:14.880 Everything's great.

00:06:15.580 Career's going great.

00:06:16.660 Everything's fine.

00:06:17.640 But sweaty.

00:06:17.940 Washington's going-

00:06:19.200 But you know, what I find interesting about the way you just mentioned my skin tone,

00:06:24.800 right?

00:06:25.140 Yeah.

00:06:25.420 To me, I love that because there's no awkwardness about it.

00:06:28.280 Like, yeah, we have different skin color and we can just talk about it.

00:06:31.140 But we've certainly in the UK, like if you'd made that comment, everyone would be like,

00:06:34.600 like you just mentioned my skin color.

00:06:37.140 Ooh.

00:06:37.800 Yeah.

00:06:38.240 I just got shamed for that.

00:06:40.340 Well, not even for me.

00:06:41.620 Yeah, it was all white people do this thing and it was directed at me. 0.56

00:06:46.060 And I was like, well, what's the problem with that?

00:06:48.840 You meet somebody, you don't have much to talk about at a party.

00:06:51.700 It's like, where'd you get the shoes?

00:06:53.100 Where are you from?

00:06:53.940 Yeah.

00:06:54.880 You know, you take that out.

00:06:56.240 There's not much left.

00:06:57.300 So it's a good conversation starter.

00:06:59.480 Anyway, back to the story.

00:07:00.800 Back to the lawsuit.

00:07:01.660 Right.

00:07:01.940 For eight, for 10 years, you've noticed that every now and again, you apply for something,

00:07:06.400 you know, and they're like, we're not doing the white guy thing at the moment.

00:07:09.640 Yep.

00:07:10.220 Constantly.

00:07:10.580 One of the biggest jobs I actually got, I won't mention it, but it was a casting director

00:07:15.360 who I knew personally.

00:07:17.300 She was a fan of mine.

00:07:19.800 And she, they, them, those, I don't want to, got to be careful there too.

00:07:25.520 And she wrote to me, she said, I probably shouldn't submit white guys for this, but I

00:07:31.720 have a feeling you're a perfect fit.

00:07:33.680 So I'm going to sneak you in.

00:07:35.640 And again, I mean, to look at that, then I start to feel like, well, I don't deserve

00:07:41.080 it.

00:07:41.360 Why?

00:07:42.240 The, the, the job had nothing to do with race or gender or anything.

00:07:45.560 And I booked the job and every day I went and I did feel a little bit like, am I stealing

00:07:51.700 this from somebody because of the way she presented it?

00:07:54.380 But, um, so yeah, it just happened more and more.

00:07:58.040 And then I had an agent bring me in, big agent in New York.

00:08:04.080 He goes, why aren't you on SNL?

00:08:05.460 Every year around two months before SNL, people would bring me and go, why aren't you on SNL?

00:08:09.900 Why aren't you famous?

00:08:10.680 And I'm like, well, if you, you know, if you want to help me out, that'd be great.

00:08:14.260 You know, I don't have Lauren's WhatsApp.

00:08:18.840 So a few months later, radio silence.

00:08:23.060 And I emailed, I said, what's, what's going on?

00:08:25.320 No auditions, nothing.

00:08:26.460 And he wrote back and I quote, tough out there for white dudes. 0.63

00:08:30.400 And then they, they removed me.

00:08:33.080 From the roster, I got an email that said, you've been removed.

00:08:35.340 So I was, I was done.

00:08:37.180 So then I, I just stopped pursuing agents and managers for a while, started making my own stuff.

00:08:42.600 This agent, um, that I am suing or manager rather reached out and said, we love you.

00:08:50.520 We want to get you auditions for Curb Your Enthusiasm, all this stuff.

00:08:54.280 And, um, said, great.

00:08:57.940 A few months later, they reach out, said, we want to call, we want to get you on the phone.

00:09:02.140 So I'm sitting there like, all right, here we go.

00:09:04.180 Finally, it's all, it's all happening.

00:09:06.760 And he goes, ah, we, we, we hit a snag.

00:09:09.940 We really love you.

00:09:11.220 We think you're a star, but we're not taking white guys. 1.00

00:09:15.120 And I was just like, what the, you know, been at this for 15 years.

00:09:20.180 Not that I deserve anything.

00:09:22.140 You know, if I went my whole career without getting booked on something, but I at least

00:09:26.460 had the opportunity to audition, I'd feel okay about that.

00:09:29.840 But what's happening now is they're removing certain races from even having the opportunity

00:09:36.200 to compete.

00:09:37.840 And that's what a manager or an agent is.

00:09:40.440 They get you the opportunity to compete that you otherwise can't unless you have, you know,

00:09:45.480 a big YouTube show like you guys.

00:09:47.240 Uh, so I'm sitting there and I remembered my therapist, uh, I was dating a quite mentally

00:09:53.640 unstable woman at the time. 0.99

00:09:54.980 And he said, you need to start recording conversations if anything comes up because you don't want

00:09:59.760 to be accused of the million things you can be accused of.

00:10:03.360 And so I hit record.

00:10:06.200 I said, can you say that one more time?

00:10:09.160 You know, you like me?

00:10:10.220 Yeah.

00:10:10.700 You think I'm a star?

00:10:11.680 Yeah.

00:10:11.920 But you won't work with me because I'm white. 0.91

00:10:13.580 And I was like, can you say it a little slower?

00:10:15.880 A little slower.

00:10:18.660 And, uh, I said, is that company policy?

00:10:21.400 And he said, uh, yeah, it is.

00:10:24.480 And so, you know, I hung up and I was crushed.

00:10:29.140 You know, I want to, I want to sit here and pretend like I, I, it didn't bother me, but

00:10:33.100 I cried.

00:10:34.840 You know, it was like this little kid when their balloon is just, you know, getting taken

00:10:39.380 away into the sky.

00:10:40.280 It's like, I saw my career just, I tried everything.

00:10:44.420 You know, I, I worked 12 hours a day, seven days a week.

00:10:46.740 I do all the shows.

00:10:47.580 I, I've been making sketches and I just thought without this gatekeeper, I'm not going to make

00:10:52.360 it.

00:10:52.920 And so, um, I didn't just go out and sue them.

00:10:56.280 And I mean, I worked with my therapist for, for months on this and, and, um, decided

00:11:02.060 to, to finally pursue it because I thought it'll kill me if I don't.

00:11:06.800 I was, I was losing my mind.

00:11:08.740 Francis, I know you want to jump in and I just want to finish this one thing real quick

00:11:12.840 and then have at it.

00:11:14.920 I actually have to go right.

00:11:16.780 We'll just cut it there.

00:11:18.140 No, but the reason I, the thing I wanted to say before Francis, you take over is this.

00:11:22.620 When I saw the story that this had happened with you, it kind of made me laugh.

00:11:27.640 You know why? 0.99

00:11:28.800 Because you're racist. 0.99

00:11:29.720 Exactly. 1.00

00:11:31.100 Uh, I hate white people. 1.00

00:11:32.740 Uh, in the UK. 0.99

00:11:34.140 That's no longer racist, mate.

00:11:35.320 Yeah, that's progressive.

00:11:37.100 Yeah.

00:11:37.420 But in the UK, this is going on all the time.

00:11:41.340 Yeah.

00:11:41.720 I had, I remember an incident where I, I had someone was racist to me in the street.

00:11:47.400 Right.

00:11:48.240 And that day I got home and I got an email.

00:11:50.580 What was the race?

00:11:51.200 Was it white or was it?

00:11:52.200 No, it was dark.

00:11:53.020 Oh, because you, you're right.

00:11:54.980 I can, I can go either way.

00:11:56.620 This is my point, right?

00:11:57.860 Same day I get home that evening.

00:11:59.540 I get an email from a promoter saying, I'm sorry, we're going to have to change your dates

00:12:03.600 because there's too many white people on the bill. 0.72

00:12:05.720 So I've just been, you know what I'm saying?

00:12:07.800 I said what you're saying.

00:12:08.980 And Francis will tell you as well, this is like, it would never occur to anyone on the

00:12:14.020 UK comedy scene to sue a manager or an agent who'd said that.

00:12:17.580 Yeah.

00:12:17.740 Because it's, it's just taken for granted now.

00:12:20.180 It's normal.

00:12:20.820 It's normal.

00:12:21.900 It's beyond normal.

00:12:22.860 It's so normal that they're comfortable saying it even with the little laugh, you know,

00:12:27.220 I believe he had a little giggle, you know, you know, the pendulum will swing back and 0.97

00:12:32.160 I'm going, the pendulum is broken out of the fucking clock and it's just like slamming 0.99

00:12:37.460 everyone in the head. 0.99

00:12:38.440 And I don't want to hear the pendulum analogy, you know, or any, you know, analogies from

00:12:44.360 the 1800s or whatever.

00:12:47.580 So yeah, it's, you don't think this stuff would happen given the perpetual sort of beating

00:12:57.640 over the head of you have to stand up for discrimination.

00:13:00.280 You have to stand up for oppression and I'm all about that.

00:13:03.660 But then I go, wait, it's happening to me.

00:13:05.620 And they're going, not that, not that, not that kind.

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00:14:24.760 But that's the interesting point, isn't it? 0.97

00:14:28.360 Because if this had happened to a black person, you would go, that's disgusting and quite 0.99

00:14:34.860 rightly so. 0.99

00:14:35.440 Person of color.

00:14:36.080 Yeah.

00:14:36.360 Sorry.

00:14:36.700 Person of color.

00:14:37.660 Person of color.

00:14:39.460 You're in Soho. 0.97

00:14:40.240 And you would go, that's disgusting and quite rightly.

00:14:44.700 But it's just, nobody bants an eyelid.

00:14:47.200 It's justified.

00:14:47.900 Yeah.

00:14:48.620 No, it's justified racism or discrimination.

00:14:54.060 It's not reverse.

00:14:55.840 You know, you can't, we can't use these fake, made up, woke words, cisgendered or reverse,

00:15:02.300 you know.

00:15:03.100 It's not.

00:15:03.660 It's exactly what it is.

00:15:06.160 It's the same definition.

00:15:07.240 White people didn't invent racism. 0.60

00:15:09.980 You know, go to Asia.

00:15:11.340 Go to Africa. 0.98

00:15:11.560 They perfected it.

00:15:12.820 They perfected it.

00:15:14.420 We polished it.

00:15:19.260 That's funny.

00:15:20.360 Yeah.

00:15:20.560 So, so I just made the decision.

00:15:23.240 I'm not playing this game anymore.

00:15:24.680 I'm going to, I'm going to go for it.

00:15:26.580 And, and I, and I also waited until I had my, until I made my career on my own.

00:15:31.200 So it was calculated that I didn't want to get sucked into that victimhood mentality because

00:15:36.940 that's also a billion dollar business at this point.

00:15:39.480 Yeah.

00:15:39.740 So I thought, all right, if I build up my following, I'm making a living, I can pay rent, I can tour,

00:15:45.100 then I'll do this when I have the strength, you know.

00:15:48.100 And obviously you went out, you talked about this and the entire comedy community went,

00:15:54.080 that's a fellow comedian.

00:15:55.240 That's my brother.

00:15:56.000 We got to stand up for him.

00:15:58.700 Yes, that, that, that did.

00:16:01.500 Where, where did that happen?

00:16:04.860 What platform?

00:16:05.900 Was that on Instagram?

00:16:07.240 Must've been on my, uh, MySpace.

00:16:09.380 That's where all the support was.

00:16:10.840 Yeah.

00:16:11.260 Uh, no, no, no.

00:16:12.900 To, to nobody's surprise, there was, um, there was very little support.

00:16:18.100 Uh, the support I get is in a comedy club when I'm walking out, a comic will, will tap me

00:16:24.140 on the shoulder and look around and go, I love what you're doing.

00:16:27.640 I love what you're doing.

00:16:29.180 And that's about it.

00:16:30.320 I'll get a whisper.

00:16:31.060 So, um, yeah, I'm, I'm called crazy, insane, far right, all the, all the words you can possibly

00:16:47.420 think of on that, that side of the political spectrum, which this isn't political at all,

00:16:53.560 nor are most things that, that people find controversial.

00:16:57.480 So, yeah, that's, that's the new normal for me.

00:17:00.560 I go into a comedy club, people, some won't look at me, some won't shake my hand, but I

00:17:05.460 have to kind of rise above it, transcend it.

00:17:09.440 And.

00:17:10.060 Why do you think that is?

00:17:10.980 Why do you think comedians who are meant to be the ones championing free speech, championing

00:17:18.680 the right to joke about whatever you want, because even if you're selfish, you've got

00:17:25.100 to realize that this will come and affect you.

00:17:28.300 It may not be today, may not be next month or even next year, but eventually it will affect

00:17:31.940 you.

00:17:32.540 Why are they not standing up and pushing back against this nonsense?

00:17:36.700 Well, let's ask them.

00:17:37.780 We have Mark Norman right here.

00:17:38.740 Hey, hey, comedy, come on.

00:17:40.560 It's there's a lot of reason I want to look up.

00:17:47.460 I know I'm a big Jordan Peterson guy.

00:17:49.020 It's like you got to look up to the the stars and you got to take personal responsibility. 1.00

00:17:53.660 Got to clean your damn room. 1.00

00:17:56.080 And Jordan Peterson is actually one of the one of the reasons why I spoke up about this, 0.99

00:18:00.380 because he defended the right to not be compelled to use preferred pronouns. 0.97

00:18:08.360 And if you don't know Jordan Peterson, they do losers. 0.98

00:18:12.120 Yeah. 0.98

00:18:12.700 Yeah.

00:18:13.000 It's like you eat a lobster.

00:18:15.460 He when he stood up to that, I hadn't really seen anybody really stand up for something so

00:18:21.540 common sense and logical.

00:18:22.880 You see the protests and the vague sort of umbrella protest terms and all that.

00:18:30.380 So when I saw him do that, I thought, OK, if I don't do this, this is going to take me under.

00:18:38.080 So so that inspired me to speak out.

00:18:40.780 And then also watching his journey, I was kind of prepared to see he didn't get any support,

00:18:47.300 very little to none from the from psychologists or from his his industry.

00:18:52.800 He was eaten alive.

00:18:54.140 But the common sense people in society were the ones that came to his defense.

00:19:00.780 And that might be 80 or 90 percent of the population.

00:19:04.320 So that's pretty good.

00:19:05.440 So I thought, all right, I'm going to probably lose this group of comedians,

00:19:10.260 maybe some of my family, some of my friends, my girlfriend, my dog, my apartment, my mind.

00:19:18.500 But apart from that, but apart from that, I'll have I'll have pride.

00:19:23.360 And so I think one of the reasons a lot of comedians don't won't stand up for this is just fear.

00:19:31.180 We've now created this fear of things you can't talk about. 1.00

00:19:35.020 It's all bullshit. 1.00

00:19:36.060 It's all made up. 1.00

00:19:37.000 You can talk about it at your own risk.

00:19:39.760 And so that bubble is getting bigger and discrimination against white people is now in that thing where they go.

00:19:47.660 No, because they changed the definition in the I think Webster Dictionary where racism is not a real thing against white people.

00:19:57.640 And people are buying into this stuff.

00:19:59.980 So I think it's fear.

00:20:01.580 It's fear.

00:20:02.540 And comedians are, you know, we typically don't make a lot of money.

00:20:08.400 Most aren't successful.

00:20:10.140 Most won't have a career.

00:20:11.580 So then if you speak up and you defend somebody who's seen as controversial, you might lose your spot at the comedy club.

00:20:18.300 And then the other person might find out.

00:20:20.000 So the fear is so deep where I don't think most people are willing to do it.

00:20:28.020 And then the ones that kind of attack me for it, well, I don't, you know, while they're doing that,

00:20:33.540 I'm just writing and producing and filming and enjoying my life.

00:20:38.220 But the interesting thing is the comedians that we all look up to, like, I know you're a huge George Carlin fan. 0.99

00:20:46.040 They're the ones who went, well, I'm going to say what I say and fuck it and damn the consequences. 0.98

00:20:53.840 That's what makes a great comic. 0.99

00:20:55.400 You know, I think for a lot of these comedians, if they actually truly understand that and were brave enough to make that step,

00:21:02.760 their lives would be transformed.

00:21:04.320 Now, it wouldn't be easy.

00:21:06.440 It's not the easiest path to take.

00:21:08.360 And it certainly wouldn't be without, you know, negative consequences.

00:21:11.580 But ultimately, there's a freedom at the end of the journey, like George Carlin or Richard Pryor or Hicks or any of these people.

00:21:18.620 None of them took the easy path.

00:21:20.920 Sure.

00:21:21.400 But how many are there total?

00:21:22.740 Well, you know, you just listed on one hand.

00:21:25.660 Yeah.

00:21:26.040 There might be two hands worth.

00:21:27.820 Yeah.

00:21:28.380 And so it is incredibly uncommon, I think.

00:21:32.260 And it might have to do with your personality type or how you were brought up.

00:21:38.020 I'm not sure.

00:21:39.180 But I think it is a tremendous amount of pain to get out of it, you know.

00:21:45.540 And I know you and I spoke about that.

00:21:48.920 It's not fun.

00:21:49.960 And so it's tempting to want to go around that and then, you know, play by the rules.

00:21:56.640 But you're never going to live a life where you're fulfilled, like you said, where you have pride in yourself, where you actually love what you do and creating the work that you truly want to create.

00:22:07.220 If you go down that other path, even if you become the SNL, the whatever it is that you want.

00:22:12.900 Yeah.

00:22:13.500 It's always going to feel slightly dirty.

00:22:15.720 Right.

00:22:16.160 Because you know you compromised.

00:22:18.180 Yeah.

00:22:18.820 Yeah.

00:22:19.140 And that was one of my dreams.

00:22:20.320 And now, if they walked in and said, we want you on this Saturday, I would say thanks, but no thanks. 1.00

00:22:27.180 Shit. 0.99

00:22:27.640 Lorne, sorry, man. 1.00

00:22:28.680 You're going to.

00:22:28.960 Is he coming out?

00:22:29.580 It was a big surprise. 1.00

00:22:32.440 Shit. 1.00

00:22:33.280 Yeah. 1.00

00:22:34.180 Yeah.

00:22:34.560 Yeah.

00:22:34.820 What's interesting about your case, though, is you actually saw what was going to happen because, I don't know if you know this, but in the very end of 2018, I got offered a contract to do a gig at a university which said they have a zero-trance policy on like a gazillion things, racism.

00:22:53.060 It said that all jokes have to be respectful and kind and whatever.

00:22:56.280 And I turned it down and it became quite a big story without me knowing that it would.

00:23:01.700 And then I was so naive, man.

00:23:04.460 And I thought, here I am, like, taking one for the comedy world.

00:23:08.500 Yeah, yeah.

00:23:08.860 For the comedy, like, I'm speaking.

00:23:10.120 Checking your DMs.

00:23:11.160 Yeah, I'm like, yeah, well, where's the praise?

00:23:13.900 And then I went back and I went into the green rooms and, like, half the people wouldn't look at me.

00:23:21.800 The other half, to be fair, would come and give me a hug and say, well, those are the half that think you're brown.

00:23:26.340 The other half that think you're white.

00:23:27.880 Exactly.

00:23:28.640 Exactly.

00:23:29.320 Divided into two.

00:23:30.280 And, but, like, I was so incredibly naive.

00:23:34.020 But you seemed to, like, you knew what was coming if you did this.

00:23:36.480 I did, but there's no way to, there's no way to actually conceptualize that and feel what it feels like.

00:23:41.880 No.

00:23:42.400 To, you know, the woman that said, I'm going to sneak you into that audition, though you're white and I shouldn't. 1.00

00:23:49.780 I saw her about a block from here the other day.

00:23:52.660 I walked by and I said, hi, how are you? 0.99

00:23:54.460 She looked at me and she goes, and my friend goes, what the fuck did you do to that woman? 1.00

00:24:02.020 And I go, nothing. 0.99

00:24:03.340 She got me a job.

00:24:04.640 And, you know, so there's no way.

00:24:07.200 And that, you know, it still hurts.

00:24:08.660 I had to kind of pull over to the side and, like, he had to go, you know, mate, you okay?

00:24:14.160 And I had to go get an ice cream and stuff.

00:24:17.640 But to have that happen, there's no way to prepare for it. 0.99

00:24:22.620 But most people, just like in their stance on everything else, are cowards. 0.73

00:24:27.360 So they're not going to say anything to me. 0.84

00:24:29.900 Not one person.

00:24:31.200 Yeah. 1.00

00:24:31.360 And out of the, you know, 100 million views I've gotten on my videos, not one has come up to me in person and said, you're, you know, a terrorist or piece of shit. 0.97

00:24:43.240 So you've got to separate the internet from reality. 0.98

00:24:47.260 Yeah. 1.00

00:24:47.420 And do you think in some ways we're incredibly fortunate in that people who did what you do and what we do 100 years from now, they would have been burned at the fucking stake. 0.94

00:24:56.800 Whereas, yes, you didn't get the opportunities that you wanted in some ways and you're taking the punishment for making a stand on a thing that you believe in. 0.93

00:25:04.780 But at the same time, you can make your own content.

00:25:07.960 You're very funny.

00:25:09.780 You're getting opportunities online that you create for yourself.

00:25:13.520 And that is a tremendous privilege.

00:25:15.860 The people who wanted to challenge the status quo, who wanted to point out that the emperor's naked 100, 200, 300 years ago, they never had that opportunity.

00:25:24.780 And we do.

00:25:25.200 Well, if they were men, they had privilege.

00:25:28.380 Regardless.

00:25:29.220 Haven't you heard?

00:25:30.520 Yeah.

00:25:30.980 Men, even with the life expectancy of 14 years old, were so incredibly privileged.

00:25:37.400 I love someone said that to me recently.

00:25:39.220 Like, men have always had all the jobs and everything. 0.99

00:25:42.420 And I was like, do you think there was a feminist in like 1600 who was picketing to have like more female cobblers or female, you know, candlestick makers or whatever? 0.99

00:25:53.740 Or, yeah, I guess so.

00:25:56.600 But this does take people out.

00:25:58.300 Yeah.

00:25:58.660 This cancel stuff takes people out.

00:26:00.380 Sure.

00:26:01.060 And I just have something.

00:26:03.840 Maybe it's from being bullied as a kid for being short or whatever it is.

00:26:08.480 I think I have a little extra something that's just this little, you know, pilot flame that's just always on no matter how down and out I am that I don't think most people have.

00:26:19.500 So I think whatever my privilege is, is this biological thing that all of the short men in my family have had to, you know, overcome.

00:26:28.360 I'm glad you said that, man, because I think for Francis and I, the reason we do what we do is also partly because like I'm not prepared to let people bully me or other people.

00:26:41.780 I'm just not.

00:26:43.220 And when I see unfairness, even if other people are okay with it, I'm not okay with it, you know.

00:26:50.180 And I think that's kind of where you're coming at it from. 1.00

00:26:52.120 Well, you're a pussy. 1.00

00:26:56.920 That's what you would say. 1.00

00:26:58.100 Yeah.

00:26:58.720 But you know what I mean?

00:26:59.820 Like you're just not prepared to be quiet about something you think is important.

00:27:03.560 No.

00:27:03.840 No, because the feeling, the alternative is too powerful.

00:27:09.760 You know, I know how that feels.

00:27:11.400 Right.

00:27:11.740 To not stand up.

00:27:12.720 Even when I was bullied, you know, I remember a guy tried throwing me in the trash can and I like got his legs and like, you know, kind of got him and we were like kind of both in the trash can.

00:27:22.380 Success.

00:27:23.300 Yeah.

00:27:24.240 I mean, that's Twitter, isn't it?

00:27:25.720 Yeah.

00:27:26.160 Well, yeah.

00:27:26.720 And, you know, that was, you know, the day my dad left my mom, but I had him in the trash can pretty good.

00:27:34.860 You're not going anywhere, dad.

00:27:37.400 And my dad did leave my mom for a man. 0.92

00:27:39.920 My dad came out of the closet when I was a kid.

00:27:41.720 And I think that, you know, it's kind of like try me.

00:27:46.120 People don't want to know your story, right?

00:27:48.700 They can attack you, but nobody knows what I've gone through and survived.

00:27:53.400 And so that's a misstep to not, to just go, even if, you know, I have friends will go, what the hell happened to you?

00:28:02.760 You know, friends from a few years ago or 10 years ago.

00:28:07.660 But I'm like, you don't know, you don't know anything that happened that led up to that.

00:28:11.840 Even with the agent, a lot of comedians, you know, attack me for it.

00:28:15.500 And I go, yeah, but you never asked any other questions.

00:28:18.660 Like, has this happened before?

00:28:19.980 Is this the first time, the 10th time?

00:28:23.400 So, I guess that's kind of my superpowers.

00:28:28.020 Like, I have that history of overcoming this stuff.

00:28:32.100 And if somebody isn't interested in that, then they're not somebody I want in my life.

00:28:39.360 And with this freedom, what has that done for you creatively?

00:28:43.460 With the knowledge that you don't have to pander to gatekeepers.

00:28:47.600 You're not worried about what the comedians think.

00:28:50.480 What has that done for you in your work?

00:28:51.940 Well, it landed me a sketch show on CNN+.

00:28:54.380 And so, there's one episode.

00:29:00.760 No, it's the ultimate freedom.

00:29:03.140 I mean, there's no, it's a feeling I didn't even know existed until you're there.

00:29:08.120 Right.

00:29:08.380 And, again, not easy.

00:29:11.240 Like, lots of sleepless nights and a lot of pain.

00:29:15.160 And having some of my heroes attack, you know, hate me is quite a thing to have comedians I looked up to since I was a kid.

00:29:24.800 Some of which, you know.

00:29:26.560 Do you want, can we talk about that?

00:29:27.760 I won't, I'm not going to say any names.

00:29:29.860 Yeah, okay.

00:29:30.200 Because that's one of my rules is I don't, I just don't gossip.

00:29:33.420 Yeah.

00:29:35.160 Which is a useful tool, I think, especially if you're in the heat.

00:29:39.340 Yeah. 0.98

00:29:39.540 To go, no matter what happens, I didn't talk shit about any of them. 0.96

00:29:43.020 Yeah.

00:29:43.160 I think that, that's been a really helpful tool.

00:29:45.400 But, yeah, we should have done that, man.

00:29:46.920 Yeah, we should have done that.

00:29:47.680 It's too late for us.

00:29:48.260 Yeah, we did do that.

00:29:49.000 Way too late for us. 1.00

00:29:50.020 And he's, and that guy, he's a fucking prick. 1.00

00:29:54.040 Yeah, I just, there's too many pricks out there to, to comment on. 1.00

00:29:57.720 Yeah.

00:29:57.980 So, depends how much time you go.

00:29:59.640 Yeah.

00:30:00.280 You're right.

00:30:00.900 Yeah, yeah.

00:30:01.460 No, it's a good rule, man.

00:30:02.440 We're just messing with you.

00:30:03.180 Yeah.

00:30:03.660 But, no, some comedians that I looked up to that, you know, really started, you know, sharing my stuff and, and who now think I'm, you know,

00:30:11.980 storming the Capitol or something or whatever the hell, you know, it's pretty wild.

00:30:19.320 Yeah.

00:30:19.660 But it's also a blessing because now my heroes, I don't have to look up to anymore.

00:30:25.020 Yeah.

00:30:25.740 But the freedom is, it's unbelievable, you know.

00:30:28.600 It allows you to, to cross the line maybe way farther than you should, but you have to do that, you know.

00:30:36.500 There's no, there's no other way to do it.

00:30:38.940 As, as a comedian, our job is, is done publicly.

00:30:42.400 The, the, the trials and tribulations is public.

00:30:45.620 There aren't a lot of other jobs like that.

00:30:47.480 And most people don't see comedy and understand, hey, we're actually just rehearsing all this stuff live publicly more so than ever.

00:30:56.120 Now with Twitter, tweeting out a thought or a joke or, uh, so.

00:31:00.660 You're not even rehearsing, you're creating, you're creating publicly, right?

00:31:04.920 Yeah.

00:31:05.140 Because the comedy only becomes, the joke only becomes the joke when other people hear it.

00:31:09.880 Exactly.

00:31:10.420 Right?

00:31:10.620 And this is what people never seem to understand is, in order for comedians to be able to create new stuff, they have to go and try it and then find out that a line has been crossed.

00:31:22.080 No one knows where the line is until you go in front of an audience and you say the thing.

00:31:27.040 Yeah.

00:31:27.220 And if you, at that point, find out the line is too far, and if we now live in a culture where once you've gone too far, that's it, there's someone at your door.

00:31:35.340 Even approaching the line.

00:31:36.820 Right.

00:31:37.340 You're even talking about the line.

00:31:38.700 Right.

00:31:38.920 Then all that's going to happen is comedians aren't going to go near the line.

00:31:42.120 Yeah.

00:31:42.260 They're not even going to get near it.

00:31:43.520 Yeah.

00:31:43.860 And I think a lot of them aren't doing that.

00:31:45.540 No.

00:31:45.660 So, or they're sticking to the topics, but to me, there's no topic off limits.

00:31:52.000 So, you know, we're now in society, we have all these protected classes, protected LGBTQIA+, we're coddling that group of people.

00:32:04.500 It's not a real community at all, but we're treating them like children and putting bubble wrap around them.

00:32:11.140 So, I was talking to someone the other day, and they said, you know, Chappelle's jokes are anti-trans.

00:32:19.040 And I said, did you like any of the jokes?

00:32:20.620 He said, yeah, I liked that one.

00:32:22.000 And I said, could it be that it's just a joke that has a trans person in it and it's not anti-trans?

00:32:27.200 And he said, yeah.

00:32:28.600 So, why are you calling it anti-trans then?

00:32:31.560 So, those topics are just growing.

00:32:35.000 I was thinking of George Carlin because he had the seven words you can't say.

00:32:37.820 Yeah. 1.00

00:32:38.220 Shit, fuck, piss, cocksucker, motherfucker, and tits. 1.00

00:32:41.140 And I'm like, if he lived today, it would be like the 700 topics. 1.00

00:32:45.140 You can't tell me about race.

00:32:46.600 Gender, gender identity. 1.00

00:32:48.120 What the fuck? 1.00

00:32:48.700 Can't say fuck, can't say shit. 1.00

00:32:50.320 Yeah, yeah. 1.00

00:32:51.760 It would just be him listing it.

00:32:53.600 Yeah.

00:32:53.840 And I thought, he almost had it better back then with seven words he couldn't say.

00:32:58.280 Yeah.

00:32:58.460 Now there's seven, you know, 70 topics, all which have 100 words under the umbrella.

00:33:04.460 But you just don't have to buy into this make-believe world.

00:33:10.120 Right.

00:33:10.920 And you'll find out pretty quickly, for me, it was about a year, being stuck at 3,000 followers,

00:33:17.600 you know, maybe 10,000 across platforms.

00:33:20.400 And I was doing good stuff.

00:33:22.580 I was doing funny jokes and impressions and Bill Burr and Bill Burr's sharing them and Jordan

00:33:29.220 Peterson.

00:33:29.720 But it just was locked.

00:33:31.600 In a year, it went to, you know, surpass 500,000 just from opening up those boundaries a little

00:33:39.760 bit.

00:33:40.100 Yeah.

00:33:40.540 Well, it's because you're creating something no one else is creating.

00:33:43.200 That's why.

00:33:43.640 Yeah.

00:33:43.880 And I bought most of the followers.

00:33:46.720 But you know what's really interesting about what you were saying?

00:33:50.040 It's that comedy, when I see it on TV, particularly the UK and push back if it's different in America,

00:33:55.960 it's got to the stage where memes on WhatsApp and the chat you have with your friends is

00:34:03.100 funnier than the comedy written and made by professionals.

00:34:07.640 Yeah, absolutely.

00:34:10.120 What's happened?

00:34:15.080 How did we get to that stage?

00:34:17.640 It's all become, you know, I think everybody wants that.

00:34:22.700 You know, when you see a comedian kind of, when that spills out into their act, people

00:34:27.220 love it.

00:34:28.700 It's just, it's back to the fear.

00:34:32.000 We're letting a small minority of extreme people create the rules.

00:34:37.500 And, but they're made up.

00:34:39.500 Right.

00:34:39.800 And we are then enforcing the rules.

00:34:41.840 The comedy industry enforces the rules.

00:34:43.920 Exactly.

00:34:44.560 The media enforces the rules.

00:34:45.860 Yeah.

00:34:46.280 And increasingly, as we were talking before we started in the UK, it's actually bleeding

00:34:50.500 through into law.

00:34:51.320 We have laws now about what you can and can't say.

00:34:53.960 We have comedians who get investigated by the police.

00:34:57.800 Right.

00:34:58.320 Didn't somebody just get arrested or something?

00:35:00.640 Yeah.

00:35:00.900 Well, there was a guy called Joe Lysa, for example.

00:35:02.860 He had a call from the police, a visit from the police because an audience member on his

00:35:08.000 tour complained and they were investigating him to understand the joke.

00:35:12.800 We've had people get calls from the police.

00:35:15.260 That's funny.

00:35:15.800 It's funny to you, man, because you don't have to live there.

00:35:19.580 It's funny that they'd have to investigate and then you have to explain your childhood.

00:35:23.660 They have to do a therapy session.

00:35:25.100 I've just got this image in the police station going, yeah, yeah, you know, the pedophile

00:35:29.380 case.

00:35:30.000 Stop.

00:35:30.660 Stop.

00:35:30.980 Someone made a joke.

00:35:32.060 Yeah.

00:35:33.080 The murder investigation.

00:35:34.420 Hold it.

00:35:35.000 Put it on hold.

00:35:35.840 This guy's making fun of, yeah, overweight people.

00:35:39.020 And then they have to do a deep dive.

00:35:41.340 Where did this come from?

00:35:42.460 Well, it started when I was four. 0.90

00:35:44.160 My mom was fat. 1.00

00:35:45.500 My friends made fun of her and made a joke. 0.93

00:35:48.000 I got to laugh.

00:35:48.780 He's got to tell this 10 hour story.

00:35:50.500 How That Became a Joke.

00:35:52.640 Still gets arrested at the end of it.

00:35:55.080 That's terrifying.

00:35:56.280 Well, right.

00:35:57.560 Yeah.

00:35:58.320 Exactly.

00:35:58.720 And you wanted me to come do stand-up in the UK.

00:36:01.440 I just wanted to, it'd be great for your career.

00:36:04.320 Come on.

00:36:04.800 You want a real litmus test to see really what the limits are.

00:36:07.660 Yeah, exactly.

00:36:08.520 We're just to put him on the stage.

00:36:10.900 Since you're getting dragged off screen.

00:36:13.000 While someone of indiscriminate gender is in the back crying.

00:36:16.340 But you know what?

00:36:17.860 That thing about just not playing by the fake rules.

00:36:22.900 It is so free.

00:36:24.080 And this is what Francis will tell you.

00:36:26.780 Like, when we were still both doing the circuit,

00:36:30.140 I always said to her, man, you're funnier offstage than you are onstage.

00:36:33.540 Because you're driving with the handbrake on, man.

00:36:35.580 Yeah, yeah.

00:36:36.480 And that's what most comedians do now.

00:36:38.460 They're driving with the handbrake on.

00:36:40.100 Have you reminded him of that recently?

00:36:42.100 I always say this to him.

00:36:43.340 This is why he's gone crazy lately.

00:36:44.980 Because he's taken the handbrake off.

00:36:47.400 Yeah, and they just go, what do you joke about now, Francis?

00:36:50.300 And I tell them, they go, okay.

00:36:51.720 And then I never hear from them.

00:36:52.960 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:36:53.720 But like, it's stopping people from being the best version of the comedian that they could be.

00:36:59.020 And I wonder what, you know, we've all been through it, I suppose, to some extent.

00:37:03.980 But I just know that it just gives you so much freedom to let go of that.

00:37:11.440 But it comes with a lot of costs, as you say, man.

00:37:14.000 And I think it's a trade-off that some people can handle and a lot of people probably can't.

00:37:17.660 Yeah, I'd say most probably can't.

00:37:19.180 Yeah.

00:37:19.520 Yeah.

00:37:19.880 Because it does, you know, it will be family.

00:37:22.320 It will be, because... 0.97

00:37:23.900 What's so fucking weird? 0.93

00:37:26.040 Can I swear on this? 0.99

00:37:26.700 No.

00:37:27.300 Too late.

00:37:27.900 Yeah, of course.

00:37:28.500 We don't have free speech in the UK, man.

00:37:30.220 If I do in a British... 1.00

00:37:31.360 Fuck, man. 1.00

00:37:33.760 It's so scary that... 1.00

00:37:39.360 I mean, well, I used to...

00:37:40.900 When I had thoughts that I didn't want to even say, I would... 0.99

00:37:45.380 Part of why I did impressions was I thought, oh, if I'm Bill Burr and going, oh, these fucking feminists, right? 1.00

00:37:51.340 I go on a date. 1.00

00:37:52.040 I want to goddamn kill myself. 1.00

00:37:53.520 People would laugh. 0.99

00:37:54.320 So I started to get a lot of these ideas out through those people.

00:37:59.300 That's how hard it was for me.

00:38:01.060 I had to do that or, you know, I like to do Trump, you know.

00:38:05.200 You know, somebody...

00:38:06.080 The agenda fluid.

00:38:07.260 It's like everybody's wet.

00:38:08.980 Everybody's fluid.

00:38:10.020 And everyone would laugh.

00:38:11.540 People that hated the right would laugh at Trump or laugh at him.

00:38:16.660 And that's how afraid I was.

00:38:18.360 So it took me 10 years to even, like, do a joke about my dad coming out of the closet.

00:38:23.340 Because I would get shamed for, no, even though your dad's gay, you're a straight white guy.

00:38:29.080 That's not your lived experience. 0.64

00:38:31.240 And so I had to just sweat it out on stage.

00:38:35.560 And it is a feeling I think a lot of people, you know, don't want to go through.

00:38:39.960 You know, in the UK, we have the Edinburgh Festival, which is how...

00:38:43.900 In the old system, that's how you got discovered.

00:38:46.180 You put an hour show together.

00:38:47.920 You had four minutes, 40 minutes of jokes.

00:38:49.540 You then did a little bit at the 40th minute.

00:38:51.480 It's Edinburgh Festival, mate.

00:38:52.600 It's 10 minutes of jokes, 50 minutes of lecturing.

00:38:55.220 Yeah, exactly.

00:38:55.900 Talking about why your dad never loved you.

00:38:57.720 And then you met this cat in India.

00:38:58.920 And it changed your life.

00:39:00.180 That's where Nanette started, right?

00:39:01.140 Yeah, yeah.

00:39:01.500 That's how.

00:39:02.580 So we have you to blame.

00:39:04.080 Yes.

00:39:04.820 Yeah.

00:39:05.180 Isn't she Australian? 0.98

00:39:06.320 Yeah.

00:39:06.800 But we made her.

00:39:07.980 But the format is that.

00:39:09.960 And that's how you get discovered, right?

00:39:12.080 And so you go up there.

00:39:13.040 And then you get nominated for awards.

00:39:14.800 And then the TV and the radio people.

00:39:16.660 And then you get runs in the West End, right?

00:39:18.100 So that's how the model works.

00:39:19.820 And the head of the awards is a lady called Nika Burns, right? 0.81

00:39:24.700 And in 2018, she said the words, I'm looking forward to the next generation of woke comedians

00:39:31.980 deciding what is and isn't acceptable on the stage.

00:39:36.600 And comedians were fine with that.

00:39:38.020 Yeah, and this is the festival now.

00:39:39.860 All right.

00:39:40.740 We found out.

00:39:41.820 We found out just this week that they are paying to fly or transport, whichever way they

00:39:48.800 do, Guardian journalists to the festival for them to see shows.

00:39:53.800 These are the same Guardian journalists who then go around and review everything based

00:39:57.320 on the politics of the show as opposed to the jokes in it.

00:40:00.840 Wow.

00:40:01.820 Or what they've started doing now.

00:40:03.620 They did it in 2019 when I did my show at Edinburgh Festival.

00:40:06.420 It was doing really well.

00:40:08.420 And the Guardian came.

00:40:09.400 And on that night-

00:40:10.400 You're like, fellas, dim the lights a little.

00:40:12.540 It'll help you.

00:40:13.520 Right.

00:40:14.240 And they came.

00:40:14.940 It happened to go very well on that night.

00:40:17.340 And they didn't review it at all.

00:40:19.660 This is how they do it now, right?

00:40:21.100 So these people are all working together in a tiny little industry.

00:40:25.000 Yeah.

00:40:26.180 So what you went through, I totally get because that's how it works.

00:40:30.260 Like you stand up, then you've got all of these people against you.

00:40:33.080 The industry, yeah.

00:40:33.860 They work as a whole.

00:40:35.380 So it's all top down.

00:40:37.960 It's the, you know, it's what, honestly, I can't say much about the lawsuit, but I do

00:40:42.120 feel bad for these people.

00:40:44.980 You know, this guy in particular was a junior manager.

00:40:48.220 He's probably, you know, brand new.

00:40:50.920 And he's being told by the senior managers, I assume, is what he told me, that we're putting

00:40:57.720 a cap on white people.

00:40:58.900 So this poor guy has to come back and report to me.

00:41:01.400 And it took him seven months to be able to own up to it.

00:41:05.140 And I also demanded that he tell me the truth.

00:41:08.320 I said, if we're going to get on the phone, you have to tell me why you've been dragging

00:41:12.440 this out for seven months.

00:41:13.540 And so God bless this guy. 0.99

00:41:17.520 People are shitting on him, too. 0.96

00:41:19.080 But he told me, he actually is the bravest person I've come in contact with because he 0.99

00:41:24.000 told me the truth. 0.83

00:41:25.160 But it's the movie studios, you know, who are tweeting hashtag, you know, gay Ukrainian 0.55

00:41:31.960 black trans lives matter.

00:41:33.660 So let's get that group cast. 0.97

00:41:36.480 Then they're telling the casting, the directors, casting directors are calling the agents and

00:41:40.460 the managers.

00:41:41.540 And then it's the actors.

00:41:43.060 So that is one big, you know, solar system that works together.

00:41:48.620 And the only way to get out of it is to do what we're doing.

00:41:52.180 I think it is working itself out.

00:41:54.000 Yeah.

00:41:54.380 Netflix put out a statement that said, if you're woke, you might not want to work

00:41:57.900 here.

00:41:58.120 I mean, that was coming after putting out the wokest garbage you can dream up for five,

00:42:04.180 10 years. 0.95

00:42:05.320 Well, see, I don't mind Netflix putting out woke garbage as long as they don't restrict 0.78

00:42:09.000 other people from going on there as well.

00:42:10.800 Well, yeah, but they did both.

00:42:11.940 Yeah.

00:42:12.140 Yeah.

00:42:12.460 So that's why it got that's why it was so one sided.

00:42:15.120 It was anything woke is gold.

00:42:17.460 Also, don't know white guys, no people of this, you know, this thought system or whatever

00:42:25.140 it is.

00:42:25.580 So it all just piled up.

00:42:28.120 And, and so if, if you're not in that pile and you're over here where everyone's searching

00:42:33.400 for comedy, it is kind of a, the wild west right now.

00:42:38.040 It's a gold rush.

00:42:39.500 I agree.

00:42:40.320 And you know, what's interesting is that their ratings are just going through the floor.

00:42:46.620 All these shows that have embraced this kind of agenda and this way of looking at the world.

00:42:51.960 It's all collapsing, but they, they don't seem to get their heads around it.

00:42:57.240 And what's worse is they're like a comedian who's bombing and they're going, oh, they're 1.00

00:43:01.660 not liking my fucking pedo shit. 1.00

00:43:03.720 You know, they're, you know, this mother and baby audience, you know, at two o'clock in 1.00

00:43:07.540 an afternoon, let's double down.

00:43:10.040 That's what they're doing.

00:43:11.000 Start bringing the babies on stage.

00:43:13.320 But that's, and it's a religion.

00:43:16.120 It's a religion.

00:43:16.880 It's like being at church halfway through the service.

00:43:20.040 They're going, you know what?

00:43:21.940 Jesus, he wasn't real.

00:43:25.300 It wasn't real.

00:43:26.480 It's, it's the same thing.

00:43:27.920 This is a religion.

00:43:28.660 So it would be the, it would be akin to them going, yeah, that never happened.

00:43:32.940 There was never the boat with the animals. 1.00

00:43:34.980 It's all bullshit. 1.00

00:43:36.720 Everyone will go, wait, what are you? 1.00

00:43:38.720 We've staked our whole lives on this.

00:43:40.180 We've staked our career on it.

00:43:41.540 They're in so deep that the financial part is, is what's shifting it.

00:43:47.580 They're not going to magically change their values.

00:43:51.000 The, the, the ratings are, are going to force their values to change back to hopefully

00:43:56.280 opening it back up.

00:43:57.500 But I'd like to see, I mean, like Andrew Schultz just put out his special and he said a streaming 0.99

00:44:04.400 service wanted to edit his jokes and he said, fuck you and put it out himself. 0.98

00:44:09.360 We need more people like that to do that. 0.99

00:44:12.120 I just produced my second special on my own.

00:44:15.300 My first one's on YouTube.

00:44:16.720 My next one will be on YouTube and on my Patreon.

00:44:20.140 But we're not even, I'm taking this so seriously.

00:44:24.060 We're not even pitching to those places.

00:44:26.860 That's how far away I want to be from that.

00:44:29.240 Yeah.

00:44:29.580 Yeah.

00:44:30.200 And then you might not ever need it.

00:44:31.860 If you build your, your platform up enough.

00:44:34.660 My goal is hopefully I don't ever need to go sit in a pitch with one of those places

00:44:39.620 again, which I did for six, seven years with various TV shows.

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00:45:43.800 about technology, privacy and censorship.

00:45:47.800 You know what's interesting is what I was very surprised about, particularly given we've

00:45:52.360 spent about five days in New York now.

00:45:54.260 We've met people, we've gone to comedy shows, we've talked to different people in the comedy

00:45:58.020 world, like I was surprised that it seemed to me like in America, there's at least like 0.97

00:46:04.520 enough comics who see this shit for what it is, that you would have like a lot of support 0.96

00:46:09.780 as well, publicly too. 0.98

00:46:11.920 And that doesn't seem to have transpired really, does it?

00:46:16.760 Let me check my phone.

00:46:19.500 My dad hasn't texted.

00:46:21.760 No, no.

00:46:23.100 Publicly?

00:46:23.620 No, I don't think, from what I could tell, I don't think any comedians have, maybe a few,

00:46:30.360 maybe five tops have publicly, and I don't need someone to publicly do it.

00:46:36.500 I mean.

00:46:36.860 No, you don't, but society does. 0.99

00:46:39.000 Otherwise, you're just the one racist guy who can't handle being white or whatever. 0.98

00:46:42.180 You're right, it would help. 0.98

00:46:43.340 It would help.

00:46:43.900 Right.

00:46:44.080 But maybe five, maybe five out of, I'm in a, I'm in a system of about 5,000 comedians.

00:46:52.760 And I mean like if a new, if a comedian friends me on Facebook, we have 5,000 mutual friends

00:46:58.340 across the country.

00:47:00.380 So I don't know what five out of 5,000 is.

00:47:03.600 If you have glasses on, you might know.

00:47:06.620 That's one in a thousand.

00:47:08.300 That's one in a thousand.

00:47:09.500 But yeah, yeah.

00:47:11.520 But it's just so sad, man, because.

00:47:14.080 You know what the great part is?

00:47:15.100 And I was thinking about this the other day, and I haven't said this out loud.

00:47:18.620 The best part about it is, and you guys know this now that you have some success, or a lot

00:47:25.900 of success, people will start to ask for favors and butter up to you and whatever British

00:47:34.980 term you have for that.

00:47:36.380 Do you have a British term for that? 1.00

00:47:37.660 Suck up. 1.00

00:47:38.220 Brown nose is the other one. 1.00

00:47:39.640 Brown nose.

00:47:41.380 This is one benefit I didn't anticipate.

00:47:45.420 Nobody asks me for anything ever. 0.96

00:47:50.240 They don't, brown nose me, they don't suck up, they don't ask to go on my podcast, they 0.84

00:47:54.420 don't ask to be in a sketch, nothing. 0.94

00:47:56.660 And that is, that is one of those little perks that you wouldn't really imagine being so amazing,

00:48:03.580 because that could also take out actors, comedians, people in the entertainment business.

00:48:09.260 Johnny Carson, for instance, became, you know, completely isolated because everybody wanted

00:48:16.000 something from him at all times.

00:48:17.400 I can walk into a comedy club and sit down and work on my jokes, go up, kill, and walk

00:48:22.920 out, and not one person, maybe more than a, like, a wink.

00:48:27.080 Yeah, yeah.

00:48:27.760 It's brilliant.

00:48:28.900 So, I've found that as well.

00:48:31.680 Like, I walk in, and like, people just look at me, and I'm like, have I just, like, got

00:48:36.400 a COVID positive test on my head?

00:48:39.460 Everyone's like, get to me!

00:48:40.700 Or, like, four in the shape of a swastika?

00:48:43.100 Yeah.

00:48:43.520 Like, four.

00:48:44.300 Or my favorite one is when people go to talk to me, they do this.

00:48:48.360 Anyway.

00:48:50.100 You're like, did I leave the house in blackface? 1.00

00:48:52.720 Did I?

00:48:53.920 Yeah. 1.00

00:48:54.800 Oh, shit. 1.00

00:48:55.860 Man, it's... 1.00

00:48:56.600 You know, the thing is, it also still happens, though.

00:48:59.980 I remember when I turned down that contract, there was a guy who, like, really didn't like

00:49:04.860 it, was attacking me on my own, like, feeds and whatever, replying.

00:49:08.160 And then, like, three days later, when it became a big news story, and it was, became,

00:49:12.460 like, public, and people cared about it, he messaged me saying, you know what, I'd love

00:49:16.200 to talk to you about this.

00:49:17.140 Should we go for a coffee?

00:49:18.980 And I was like, didn't you spend, like, three days just attacking me endlessly?

00:49:23.220 It was like, yeah, yeah, I'll go and delete that.

00:49:25.700 Did you call him out for it?

00:49:27.640 Publicly.

00:49:28.000 No, I said it, I said to him.

00:49:29.160 Right. 0.99

00:49:29.500 Yeah, I said to him, you've been saying, you've been talking shit about me for three 0.99

00:49:33.000 days. 0.98

00:49:33.500 Now you want to go for a coffee.

00:49:35.100 What happened?

00:49:36.180 And he went, oh, no, no, I'll go delete all those.

00:49:38.160 Posts, now.

00:49:40.100 Man, so did you have the coffee with him?

00:49:42.060 We never got around to it.

00:49:43.060 I was happy to do it.

00:49:44.340 But it just, it was interesting to me that somebody would flip the switch in about three

00:49:49.880 days.

00:49:50.420 Well, that you, you reached the point of notoriety.

00:49:52.740 Like, where were you in your career at that point?

00:49:54.120 Not, not that far.

00:49:54.980 Right.

00:49:55.240 So that probably gave you a little bump.

00:49:57.120 Yeah.

00:49:57.420 And that is another thing I'm seeing.

00:49:58.880 There is, like, an algorithm to it where you cross a certain number of followers or whatever

00:50:03.960 it is, where then, like, I have some people coming back around now.

00:50:08.280 For the first time, saying, I'm proud of you.

00:50:13.580 Congratulations.

00:50:14.860 Wow, you have this.

00:50:17.100 And I go, where was that when I was dying?

00:50:20.340 And I was, you know, that would have been a useful, you know, text at that point.

00:50:25.340 Yeah.

00:50:25.460 Yeah, like, so this is what I find interesting as well, you know.

00:50:28.800 So you get some of these comedians who are openly, overtly woke until something happens

00:50:35.100 or a particular topic.

00:50:37.260 Like, there's a comedian who I helped a lot at the early stages of his career because

00:50:40.580 I helped to run a comedy club.

00:50:42.240 And he was very woke.

00:50:43.360 And Vice did a hit piece on the comedy club that I was.

00:50:47.040 This was Ricky Gervais, right?

00:50:48.560 Yeah, exactly.

00:50:49.540 Right, right.

00:50:50.180 That's how long he's been around.

00:50:52.120 Yeah, man.

00:50:52.640 Exactly.

00:50:52.940 I love how you crafted him.

00:50:54.040 Yeah.

00:50:54.260 And he liked the Vice hit piece and all the rest of it.

00:50:59.080 And I bumped into him in a comedy club.

00:51:00.780 You know, I was several because I'm passive aggressive.

00:51:02.860 And I bumped you, man.

00:51:03.640 He pushed you out of the way.

00:51:04.940 Yeah, exactly.

00:51:06.140 And we were talking and he looked at me and he went, I'm not going to get the vaccine,

00:51:10.380 mate.

00:51:11.140 And I went, really?

00:51:11.980 And he went, yeah, because, you know, here's the reasons why.

00:51:15.700 I had a friend.

00:51:16.480 She took it.

00:51:17.080 She got very sick.

00:51:17.900 She had really bad side effects.

00:51:19.400 And ever since then, it freaked me out.

00:51:21.300 And I just don't want anything to do with it.

00:51:23.320 But he said it under his breath when he knew that no one was around.

00:51:26.940 Right.

00:51:27.200 Also, like, you're his physician or something.

00:51:28.980 Yeah, exactly.

00:51:29.840 It's like, just because you have a thing doesn't mean that people now have to come to you and

00:51:33.160 go, yeah, I'm not doing it.

00:51:33.740 Yeah.

00:51:34.300 And I just said to him, I was like, it doesn't matter what you do. 0.97

00:51:37.020 It doesn't matter how fucking pure you are. 0.95

00:51:38.700 They're going to get you on something. 0.98

00:51:40.140 Yeah.

00:51:40.460 And that was his thing.

00:51:41.340 And you could tell, like, the penny had dropped.

00:51:43.420 It doesn't matter how pure.

00:51:45.160 No.

00:51:45.940 No.

00:51:46.380 You don't do one thing.

00:51:47.780 It doesn't matter.

00:51:48.000 It will happen.

00:51:48.880 It will happen.

00:51:49.820 And so why not?

00:51:51.020 And I know, like you said, Mark was on your show.

00:51:53.740 Yeah.

00:51:53.940 And I had Mark on my podcast when I first started it.

00:51:57.880 And I kind of was like, how do you, you really go for it, you know?

00:52:02.940 And I always loved watching him go for it.

00:52:05.560 And he just said, like, hey, hey, I just, no, I'm not going to do it.

00:52:09.160 But he said, I'm gay.

00:52:10.940 He said, I just, I just do it all the time.

00:52:14.180 This is how I am all the time on every podcast, every tweet.

00:52:16.860 That way people can't point to that one thing.

00:52:19.640 And so that did really, that was one of the things that helped me go, all right, I'm going

00:52:24.340 to do this for everything all the time so they can't find that one little thing.

00:52:29.080 There's thousands.

00:52:30.540 What are you going to do?

00:52:31.520 Print out the 10,000 things I said?

00:52:33.760 They're just going to pick the highlights, man.

00:52:35.520 We're waiting for the Guardian hit piece.

00:52:37.440 It's coming.

00:52:37.960 It's coming for everybody.

00:52:39.200 Yeah.

00:52:39.380 But I think you'll have a, you know, that's the thing.

00:52:41.340 You build your own following up to a certain size.

00:52:43.680 When they come for you, if you didn't do anything illegal, you're looking at me. 1.00

00:52:48.700 It's a way of fuck. 0.99

00:52:48.940 No, we've got a great legal team, man. 1.00

00:52:51.120 Don't worry about it.

00:52:51.800 They will have your back.

00:52:53.380 And because of Locals, Patreon, you know, Chris D'Elia is a great example.

00:52:57.920 Yeah.

00:52:58.300 Right?

00:52:58.760 I mean, he didn't do anything illegal as far as I'm concerned.

00:53:01.900 Yeah.

00:53:02.380 He had, you know, he cheated on his fiancee.

00:53:05.060 Shame on you.

00:53:05.860 He did a lot of bad things.

00:53:07.360 But he apologized.

00:53:08.340 He went and got help and went to, I think, 12-step programs and stuff.

00:53:12.780 And sure enough, there, his following was to kind of lift him back up and pay his bills.

00:53:18.960 And there you go.

00:53:20.340 No, man.

00:53:20.840 It makes perfect sense.

00:53:22.720 And that's the beauty of the moment.

00:53:24.380 That's why I am somewhat more positive than I have been for a long time, actually, about

00:53:29.960 everything that's happening.

00:53:30.840 Because I always get, I find it very difficult when I think there's no way out.

00:53:37.220 And as my dad always says, a situation with no way out is a situation where you don't like

00:53:41.660 the obvious way out. 1.00

00:53:43.140 And the obvious way out is just to go fuck you and build something of your own. 1.00

00:53:47.800 Right? 1.00

00:53:47.900 But that's hard.

00:53:49.520 That's scary.

00:53:50.600 That's difficult. 1.00

00:53:51.440 You're going to take a lot of shit. 1.00

00:53:52.660 Yeah. 1.00

00:53:53.080 It's going to be a challenge, which has been for you.

00:53:55.800 It's been for us.

00:53:56.780 Whatever.

00:53:57.300 You know, speaking of Mark Norman, the interesting difference, I suppose, between what he said

00:54:01.080 and what you've said to us is he was saying, look, the way to deal with this is just to

00:54:05.660 ignore it.

00:54:06.740 You just do your thing.

00:54:07.560 You just ignore it.

00:54:08.660 But you felt you had to make a stand and go out of the comedy persona and into the real

00:54:14.800 world and go, actually, this is wrong.

00:54:17.960 Not here's a joke about how this is wrong.

00:54:19.520 I agree with Mark.

00:54:20.600 And Mark does that so well.

00:54:21.980 And I think that is going to bring him incredible longevity with his career.

00:54:27.680 But like we talked about off camera earlier, as well as your pedophile lawsuit that you're

00:54:35.300 trying to find the easy way out of.

00:54:37.140 Well, I got to look after Francis.

00:54:39.440 Is, you know, there was a defining moment for me.

00:54:43.540 And that was me not getting the vaccine, which I thought was a personal choice that

00:54:49.400 nobody else would know about.

00:54:51.380 I don't, I never talked about personal stuff in my life.

00:54:54.240 Again, even being like, my dad is gay was the scariest thing to do on stage. 1.00

00:55:00.180 I remember I even talked about being uncircumcised once and a bartender at the show goes, stop! 0.99

00:55:06.300 Stop it! 0.99

00:55:07.360 No!

00:55:08.340 Ugh! 0.97

00:55:09.600 And it was like another year before I even, you know, did that bit again.

00:55:15.960 I had to cut it out, no pun intended.

00:55:18.280 Yay! 0.99

00:55:18.600 But hey, hey, all right, I'm going to get more, no.

00:55:20.760 So the difference for me was when that happened, I decided I'm not going to lie to the comedy

00:55:28.080 clubs and say that I got the vaccine because I respect them, you know.

00:55:33.300 These clubs that it took me 12 years to get into finally gave me a shot.

00:55:37.920 And I, you know, I really showed up.

00:55:39.680 I wore a suit.

00:55:40.380 I posted on the weekends, started to make a living.

00:55:43.380 And so I felt I owed them the truth.

00:55:45.680 And so I just said, I'm not going to lie.

00:55:48.280 I'm not going to make the fake card.

00:55:50.080 That was the difference for me.

00:55:51.520 That's when it had to become personal because then I got attacked.

00:55:55.500 Why don't you just lie?

00:55:56.880 What are you doing?

00:55:57.740 Why don't you get the vaccine?

00:55:58.880 And it became like it crossed the line where it's like, no, this is now my personal medical

00:56:04.260 choice.

00:56:04.900 This is different than comedy or jokes you make.

00:56:09.120 This is a personal, uh, my body, my choice thing, which is ironic because I'm, I actually

00:56:16.220 am all for my body, my choice.

00:56:18.600 And so it's interesting to be called right wing, far right to have a stance that's as pure

00:56:26.040 as it can be with my body, my choice across the board.

00:56:29.480 So, so that's where it really shifted.

00:56:32.020 Uh, and then I had to sort of by default talk about my personal stuff because people were

00:56:39.580 going in and kind of pulling it out, but I had never had any intention to, to talk about

00:56:45.060 that.

00:56:45.280 I was at those clubs when there was no vaccine.

00:56:48.100 Nobody knew what it was.

00:56:49.360 I was one of like few comedians that were willing to go perform, uh, which actually felt like

00:56:57.240 a risk to your health.

00:56:58.300 But I just thought I'll die if I don't do it and the crowd needs it.

00:57:02.060 And the crowds were small and it was outside and everyone's in their mask and face shield

00:57:06.280 and the comedians are the only ones up there.

00:57:08.140 No mask, no vaccine.

00:57:09.720 So then suddenly after working for a year for free, all the money they made went to their

00:57:16.040 chefs and to their bus boys and stuff.

00:57:18.740 They didn't give any to the comedians.

00:57:20.560 I worked for free.

00:57:21.740 And then one day they're like, no, you're out of here.

00:57:23.780 And I just thought, man, you know, now I, now I have to, to, to build this on my own.

00:57:31.700 And that just sort of opened up a little bit of a window for me to start talking about more

00:57:36.160 personal stuff.

00:57:37.080 Never would have happened for, if it weren't for, for, um, that vaccine divisiveness.

00:57:43.260 It's so, which blows my mind.

00:57:44.980 And I lost a ton of friends and family, not allowed in my family's house, probably still

00:57:51.500 to this day.

00:57:52.680 So it was like a tremendous loss that I never intended to, uh, to, to go near.

00:58:00.840 Why do you think the whole vaccine issue was so divisive?

00:58:04.180 I think it was done on, I think it was done on purpose to prevent Trump from getting reelected

00:58:10.540 again.

00:58:10.780 And it worked.

00:58:13.000 What do you mean by that?

00:58:14.980 I mean, it, it became political.

00:58:18.220 It was not a political issue.

00:58:21.500 No, because also, by the way, if you even take this thing out and dissect it even a little

00:58:26.000 bit, Trump's the one that pushed the vaccine that got the regulations, uh, reduced because

00:58:31.480 that's what he's good at building skyscrapers without any, you know, Hey boys, the ground's

00:58:36.680 not level.

00:58:37.140 He's like, just build it.

00:58:38.120 It's fine.

00:58:38.560 It's on a slant.

00:58:39.620 It's the slanted tower.

00:58:41.040 We'll call it the slanted tower, even though that's racist.

00:58:43.800 And so, so it's so, it's so mind boggling because you're going, this is Trump's vaccine.

00:58:51.520 This is his baby.

00:58:52.880 I'm not getting it.

00:58:54.040 And I'm now being called the far right wing Trump supporting extremist.

00:58:58.060 My head is going to explode.

00:59:00.580 It was, it was divided for a purpose.

00:59:03.820 And then it was easy to go, Oh, the far right wingers, they're the ones that don't care about

00:59:08.000 saving the planet or saving the elderly.

00:59:10.300 And I think that divide into those two camps worked so good and is now the norm for everything in

00:59:18.060 society.

00:59:18.720 Is that joke on the right people?

00:59:20.380 Even I'll do shows in Florida and someone will go, Hey, I love your conservative stuff.

00:59:25.220 I love that you do conservative comedy.

00:59:27.700 No, I'm didn't you just hear, I just made fun of Trump and Biden.

00:59:31.440 And I made fun of the left and the right. 0.98

00:59:33.560 And that vaccine bullshit has now created these two camps that it's going to be a miracle 0.99

00:59:39.940 to, to break out of that. 0.98

00:59:41.980 You know, that's so interesting.

00:59:42.880 You said that I had that at a gig where I was doing lots and I like to comment on politics

00:59:47.580 and what's happening both.

00:59:49.200 I tend to find myself more on the left or on the right for certain things.

00:59:52.740 Like I think women exist, you know, that kind of thing. 1.00

00:59:55.800 Do you know what I mean? 0.99

00:59:58.100 I think if you've got, you know, you know, born with tits and a vagina, that makes you 1.00

01:00:02.060 a woman. 1.00

01:00:02.960 You know, I'm kind of far right like that.

01:00:04.700 What are you trying to do?

01:00:05.380 Ban us off YouTube, mate.

01:00:06.660 Calm down.

01:00:07.820 I know, you know, so I think, but a lot of the stuff I'm sort of center, center left.

01:00:12.740 Well, soon you're going to, it's going to be more like chauvinistic.

01:00:15.420 You're not going to be able to say woman.

01:00:16.240 You're going to have to go, yeah, one of them, one of those old chess feeders.

01:00:22.560 Bladers and chess feeders, that's how you know it.

01:00:24.420 Yeah.

01:00:25.060 And like, and I did the stuff and whatever else and I was talking about whatever I was

01:00:29.740 talking about and it was a new material and I came out and I went, okay, that worked,

01:00:32.600 that didn't, blah, blah, blah.

01:00:33.260 And this guy came up to me and was just like, I really liked your conservative comedy.

01:00:38.260 You know, I like, it's like that right comedy, like right wing comedy.

01:00:40.780 I liked it.

01:00:41.320 And I'm like, that's not me.

01:00:42.320 And then like, and then the same thing, this black guy came up to me and went, the racial

01:00:47.800 stuff was good. 0.99

01:00:48.840 And I'm like, what the fuck is going on? 0.96

01:00:51.480 Do you know what I mean? 0.99

01:00:52.680 Like 10 years ago, this would have just been comedy.

01:00:55.080 Another guy's like, I love the Proud Boys.

01:00:58.240 I love the woke, far left, slightly right, androgynous.

01:01:02.180 Just genderqueer material. 0.80

01:01:05.100 Like, what?

01:01:06.400 Why?

01:01:07.380 We've got to the stage now.

01:01:09.000 That's the media though.

01:01:09.840 That's Fox News and CNN.

01:01:11.500 They, that, they have, they owe everybody a sum of money for that.

01:01:16.940 Yeah.

01:01:17.320 Because it became the two camps.

01:01:19.260 Yeah.

01:01:19.420 And as soon as I stopped watching CNN, people go, oh, so you're a far right Fox guy now.

01:01:23.460 It's like, hello, what about the 99% in the middle? 1.00

01:01:26.920 Can we explore this for a little bit?

01:01:29.020 Yeah.

01:01:29.260 And, but you got to be firm.

01:01:31.980 You can't, you can't, I just did a film with the Daily Wire.

01:01:34.820 Yeah.

01:01:35.380 And just because, you know, Ben Shapiro is a conservative, and by the way, this is brought

01:01:42.700 to you by ExpressVPN.

01:01:44.420 I have to say that, get 20% off.

01:01:46.900 Because, because the owner's conservative, people are like, oh, you were in that conservative

01:01:53.040 Western film.

01:01:54.760 It's like, this was a, this was a classic Western film.

01:01:57.960 What, there were no Trump rallies, you know, on horses or anything, you know, you know,

01:02:04.360 make horses great again.

01:02:05.780 There was no, it was just a Western film.

01:02:08.960 And a great easy target for comedians too.

01:02:12.400 Like, oh, can you believe he's doing this far right film?

01:02:15.140 I'm like, that was the only movie offer I've ever gotten in my life.

01:02:19.240 And I've been auditioning for 17 years, probably thousands of times.

01:02:25.280 I don't have options.

01:02:26.900 And just because it's the Daily Wire doesn't mean it's this thing.

01:02:30.920 And so hopefully that company will continue to make films that are just good.

01:02:36.860 I love their attitude, that conservative thing.

01:02:41.200 I'm like, I hate to break it to you, but Disney, they're not the good guys.

01:02:44.800 You know, it's funny.

01:02:45.660 Yeah, if you actually met a lot of the owners of these corporations, most of them are likely

01:02:49.320 conservative.

01:02:50.140 Yeah, of course they are.

01:02:50.900 Because they like, excuse me, not when it comes to sexual practice.

01:02:55.080 That's true.

01:02:55.780 They're very liberal in that way.

01:02:56.880 Yeah, whew.

01:02:58.200 That's, have you, now, okay, so have you noticed a difference between London and New

01:03:02.780 York as far as walking around and going, I don't know what, could that be a man or a

01:03:08.460 woman or, and I'm not even being, you know, malicious here, but it's, I'm genuinely confused.

01:03:15.200 Yeah.

01:03:16.120 Oftentimes.

01:03:17.960 It's a confusing time to live in.

01:03:20.180 Everything is confusing.

01:03:21.700 Yeah.

01:03:22.480 You know what I mean?

01:03:23.140 Like, and it's confusing in ways that you don't know what you can joke about anymore.

01:03:27.440 What was acceptable, like, a week ago, isn't acceptable now?

01:03:32.480 Like, you can sit, you, a year ago, you could have made this joke, but now, like, we've all

01:03:36.740 got examples of jokes. 1.00

01:03:38.060 This is why I like what Tyler's saying, though, is like, we just all got to stop giving a shit. 1.00

01:03:42.360 Yeah. 1.00

01:03:42.720 You really do.

01:03:43.440 And, and back to your finding the positive part of it.

01:03:46.900 Yeah.

01:03:47.040 There is a moment when you have to just go, all right, things are going good for us right

01:03:51.800 now.

01:03:52.260 Yeah.

01:03:52.400 Let's ride that wave.

01:03:53.680 You could still make fun of, obviously, because that's, there's a wealth of material.

01:03:58.420 And when people go, you're on the right now, I said, no, I made fun of Trump for four years.

01:04:03.340 There's a new guy in town.

01:04:04.680 He happens to be a Democrat.

01:04:07.340 He also happens to be dying in front of our eyes of apparently cancer and dementia and

01:04:12.520 all these things.

01:04:13.460 You know, you're a comedian.

01:04:15.320 Go where the gold is.

01:04:17.440 You have so much gold here.

01:04:19.000 Well, this is why Boris Johnson, the conservative party leader in our country, we're supposed

01:04:23.720 to be right wing.

01:04:24.980 We were taking the piss out of him for the entire time he was in office.

01:04:28.040 Sure. 0.93

01:04:28.480 Right. 0.99

01:04:28.720 Because that's what you're supposed to fucking do. 0.99

01:04:30.940 Yeah. 0.99

01:04:31.340 You're a comedian.

01:04:32.000 And you're supposed to, and if, particularly if you're political, as we both are, you're

01:04:36.180 supposed to make fun of the thing that's happening.

01:04:38.940 That's your job.

01:04:39.900 Yeah.

01:04:40.300 Right.

01:04:40.600 You're not, you're not on a team.

01:04:42.600 You're not, you're not a pro labor comedian or a pro concert, but, but a lot of people pick 0.90

01:04:48.140 that team and then they have the fucking audacity to say that because we refuse to pick a team, 0.92

01:04:54.660 we pick the wrong team. 0.99

01:04:56.200 Exactly.

01:04:56.720 That's how it works.

01:04:57.540 Right.

01:04:57.860 They pick the left team.

01:04:59.440 Right.

01:04:59.680 And we're going, we're just going to be objective in the middle, which makes us the evil guys

01:05:04.120 on the right.

01:05:04.800 Exactly.

01:05:05.400 Yeah.

01:05:05.860 Yeah.

01:05:06.180 That's how they've done it.

01:05:06.980 A lot of it started.

01:05:07.800 I don't think a lot of people made fun of Obama.

01:05:09.840 I think that was the beginning of there's certain people based on what they look like that you

01:05:16.100 can't make fun of. And I think I certainly took a break for eight years making fun of

01:05:21.120 politics. I, I plenty made fun of George Bush before.

01:05:25.440 Of course.

01:05:26.360 I mean, Obama was a very different character to Bush. He had, whatever you think of his

01:05:30.280 policies, he had an air of respectability. He was a great orator. He was presidential.

01:05:35.820 Yeah. He wasn't making up words like Bush. It was just kind of, you know, it's fantastic.

01:05:40.000 It's wonderful. It's, it's wonder, wonder-tastical.

01:05:43.520 Just daily making up for us. Yeah.

01:05:45.940 Obama was cool.

01:05:47.100 But I was still afraid to make fun of him.

01:05:48.980 Oh, but that's, this is the other part I was coming to, which is, I think a lot of

01:05:52.900 people, and I include myself in this, invested all our sort of like, all that time we spent 0.90

01:05:58.500 jerking off over Martin Luther King. We, we, we channeled that into Obama. You know what

01:06:02.820 I mean?

01:06:03.040 Right, right.

01:06:03.240 Like he was the vision that we'd all been working to finally we'd arrived at this great

01:06:07.880 society.

01:06:08.300 By the way, you don't hear about Martin Luther King anymore.

01:06:10.780 No, no, he's, he's racist, but- 0.95

01:06:12.640 He's a coconut, Michael. 0.99

01:06:13.540 Coconut, yeah.

01:06:14.280 Yeah, I mean, I, yeah, that's why I'm-

01:06:15.760 No, this is my point. Like all of us who were just like, I don't want to live in a

01:06:20.060 racist society. I want society to move forward. I want us to get to a point where anyone of 0.58

01:06:25.040 any race can do anything. That's the dream that our generation, that's what we were looking

01:06:29.400 towards.

01:06:29.960 Right.

01:06:30.100 And then this guy comes along and he, and he's, you know, he's a great speaker. He,

01:06:34.400 he manages to persuade a hell of a lot of people.

01:06:36.980 He's clean, as Joe Biden said.

01:06:38.740 Yeah.

01:06:38.840 Right.

01:06:39.040 And then everyone sort of invests into that because we think finally, look, look, just 0.77

01:06:47.320 shut, shut up about, like, we've done it. We got there. We're in a good place. We're 0.87

01:06:51.940 in a healthy place. I think that's why a lot of people were, were extra careful about him

01:06:56.420 because it's like, don't, don't fuck with this great thing that we finally got to. 0.97

01:06:59.880 Sure. Well, this also would, it's just interesting because he's, he's a black man. He's also just 1.00

01:07:06.440 as much a white man as he is a black man. 0.88

01:07:08.200 Yeah. 0.97

01:07:08.420 So it's like with you, we can conveniently choose when he's white, when he's black. 0.92

01:07:13.080 It's more like with Francis actually, because Francis is obviously half Venezuelan. His 0.52

01:07:16.980 mother's very dark woman.

01:07:18.500 Okay.

01:07:18.720 He's turned out like this. Obama's kind of like that.

01:07:20.660 Yeah. I am like Obama, mate. Do you know what I mean? It's always been my fantasy to bomb

01:07:24.540 the shit out of the Middle East. 0.99

01:07:26.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:07:26.160 Yeah. But, but it's, it's a way we racially categorize people that it's just so ridiculous. 0.80

01:07:31.900 Yeah, man. 0.95

01:07:32.360 It just is.

01:07:33.420 It's, it's starting to eat itself up. I, I'm telling comedians who kind of secretly come

01:07:37.420 to me now, I go, just sit back and enjoy the show. Because if there's a new rule every

01:07:43.640 day that no one's approved of, it's all starting to eat itself up, you know? And a great example

01:07:49.720 was we had a, not a barista, a guy at a bodega or a bogoda, as Jill Biden calls it. A lot of

01:07:58.580 taco people eat there. A lot of, you'll find a lot of breakfast tacos eating tacos at the

01:08:03.280 bogodas. A guy who was, I believe Middle Eastern or something, was attacked by a black man. 0.64

01:08:09.600 Right. Yeah. And the, the, the guys, girlfriend even came in and tried stabbing the, the Middle 1.00

01:08:14.640 Eastern guy. The, the guy was given a knife and stabbed and killed the black guy. Yeah. 0.95

01:08:19.200 So, okay. This is a new thing. And racism. No white person involved. Yeah. So what do

01:08:25.500 you do? Well, the, the less dark guy got punished. Even though he was defending. He got, he was 0.99

01:08:31.500 charged with murder. Yeah. I mean, the thing is on tape, it is clear as, as day. And so

01:08:37.200 to me, I go, here comes the real show because now what do you do when there's no white person

01:08:42.420 to blame? Now you have to pick one because that's what they're in the business of doing.

01:08:46.460 Well, if you do justice on the basis of people's skill color, skin color, instead of what they've 0.63

01:08:50.420 actually done, then you eventually get to this point where it gets that ridiculous. Uh, and

01:08:55.580 then, I'm sorry. I was just going to say, and also I know that here in New York, in terms

01:09:00.160 of, uh, compensation and support that was offered to people post lockdown, that was racially

01:09:06.400 Yes. Allocated. And Coleman Hughes, who was sitting in that chair only yesterday. Oh, I just

01:09:11.380 met him too. Yeah. Explained basically how, what, if you were white, you didn't get anything.

01:09:16.160 And if you were from a different demographic than you did, like it's gonna, it's gonna 0.96

01:09:20.420 get to a point where it's just ridiculous. Like you say, with this. Well, when it gets 0.92

01:09:25.000 personal too. So everyone's going to have to hit their like woke rock bottom, right?

01:09:29.400 Woke bottom, whatever you want to call it. That's, that's what it is. You're going to

01:09:33.120 reach a point and it's going to likely be financial or you were to a job was taken away

01:09:37.960 or your daughter's job. It's like the people that come after me, I go, well, what if you,

01:09:41.820 what if your white daughter was told, fuck off, you're white. You can't be an actor. 1.00

01:09:46.080 You just going to like, let that go. And so it, it's going to reach a point in everyone's

01:09:50.880 life where it's too much. I had a gay, let, gay, but Colombian or something. He was gay 1.00

01:09:57.500 and something else, not white. Let's just, it's easy to say that. Gay, not white comedian, 0.79

01:10:02.800 reach out to me, got a TV offer for a TV show, but he looked too white. They told him. 0.89

01:10:10.620 So he's gay, he's Colombian, but he wasn't dark enough. So it was going to be a tough 1.00

01:10:16.360 sell for them. So we know you suck dick, but yeah. And I think that was you that DMed. 1.00

01:10:21.540 And so, you know, that was both shocking and not shocking to get that message from him because

01:10:28.820 I make fun of everyone, including anyone who's gay or not gay or whatever. So classically, 0.59

01:10:34.800 he would not be someone reaching out to me or wanting support, but he reached out for

01:10:39.060 some support. And so here I am, a white guy offering support to a gay Colombian guy who didn't

01:10:46.220 get the job because he can reference that I'm talking about this and taking legal action. So

01:10:52.120 it's, the tide is already gone back. I think a lot of comedians, a lot of people are still

01:10:57.880 going into this tidal wave that's actually already on the way back. And we're up here swimming. It'd

01:11:03.780 be nice, you know, if the ocean was a little colder in here, but we're swimming, we're swimming

01:11:08.700 with the tide, I think. Yeah. It's an interesting way to look at it. It is a very interesting way to

01:11:14.280 look at it. I think the, the, the reason as well, a lot of people are starting to wake

01:11:20.100 up. It's just because the trans shit, it's so insanely mental. 1.00

01:11:25.640 You, you, you crossed the line with the trans. I told you, but it's just so insane. You're 1.00

01:11:34.980 just listening to what they'm saying. Like anyone can be a woman. If I identify as a woman, I'm

01:11:39.740 a woman. You're like, come on. And there's no such thing as a woman. Yeah. That's the 1.00

01:11:44.800 thing. It's fun. We're watching these, these car wrecks every day where their two made up

01:11:49.660 ideas are just colliding. And it's so fun. It is. It is a lot of the women's March. I

01:11:55.220 don't know if you saw this. They tweeted today saying a trans women are women. I didn't hear

01:11:58.440 about the women's March. I was at the chest feeding, uh, birthing person March. The bleeder 0.95

01:12:03.380 convention. You were at the bleeder convention. Anyway, I liked the, the positive note that

01:12:09.220 you, that we had there for a second before Francis took it in a negative direction as

01:12:13.980 he'd want to. Uh, it's good to end on a positive note. And I think you're right. I think the,

01:12:18.980 the, the tide is helpful to where we are. Um, but it's going to take a long time for other

01:12:25.740 people to catch up. I think it's going to take some time. Uh, Tyler, it's been great having

01:12:30.360 you on before we ask you a couple of questions from our supporters that only they get to see.

01:12:34.960 Sure. Uh, the last question. Join locals. Sorry. Join locals and see those answers there. Uh,

01:12:40.160 the last question we always ask is what is the one thing that we're not talking about as a society

01:12:44.640 that you think we really should be? In America or England? Wherever you want my brother. Here's a

01:12:49.100 great one. Back to the joke that the, the bartender told me not to say is the, uh, execution of the tip

01:12:57.360 of the penis, no, no, formerly known as circumcision in America. It's, uh, it's so taboo to even talk 0.95

01:13:07.140 about it. And, uh, and so for me, that's something I'm trying to talk about more. I have a joke about

01:13:12.220 it in my new special because I was made fun of as a kid for not being circumcised. And the more

01:13:18.880 research I do, I find out, wait a minute, funny enough. Uh, it's, there's the reason that skin is 0.99

01:13:24.860 on the penis. So what is that like in England? Is it common? It's not, it's not, it's more common, 0.99

01:13:30.780 far more common to be uncircumcised. Okay. Prove it.

01:13:36.060 Anton?

01:13:37.420 All right, here we go. Yeah. Yeah. So, so that's, uh, I find to be very interesting because it's so

01:13:42.860 taboo here. Yeah. And you have parents going, I don't want anyone vaccinating my kids or doing

01:13:48.600 anything medical. Yet their baby comes out and they go, you want us to cut his dick off? They go, 1.00

01:13:53.180 yeah, take them. And they're letting that happen. I think they're doing circumcision wrong in America

01:13:58.120 if that's what they're doing. Just cutting his dick off. It's a little far. We cut off the left 1.00

01:14:03.380 ball. Yeah. And the tip. Yeah. You want them to be right wing. Yeah. You take off the ball. That's

01:14:09.420 how we get it back centered. Yeah. But, but in America it's, it is so taboo. And I tell you, when I

01:14:14.760 talk about it on stage, people are sweating and they're terrified. And, uh, and I tell the story in my,

01:14:21.520 in my special, but I, I, all of our friends drew pictures of their penises, uh, with chalk on the 0.99

01:14:28.880 blacktop and it was all, you know, round penises. And I drew mine as a triangle trying to represent, 0.98

01:14:35.680 you know, I was only eight and they were like, what the fuck is that? Is that a witch's hat? 0.99

01:14:41.480 Is that an elephant trunk? And so I started to get bullied from eight years, eight years old on.

01:14:49.100 Uh, and I even, it's the reason I dropped out of college. Really? Yes. Because I was dating woman. 1.00

01:14:55.720 I was so afraid of her seeing my penis because it, in pop culture, we make fun of it on Seinfeld. It's, 0.99

01:15:01.700 it's known as this like horrendous monster dick. And I was so afraid to show her my penis. And then I 1.00

01:15:09.720 became depressed and I lost my, and I dropped out of school. Wow. And that's, let me tell you

01:15:16.060 something, man. There is nothing wrong with a triangular penis. Exactly. Thank you. There's 1.00

01:15:20.220 nothing wrong with going full Sharpay, my friend. Exactly. Uh, Tyler Fisher, so great to have you on.

01:15:26.140 Uh, where can people find your stuff online? Uh, uncircumcised.com. Uh, it's a support group.

01:15:31.780 We're trying to get it. Uncut. Well, my jokes are uncut. You can go to TylerFisher.com.

01:15:38.400 It's F-I-S-C-H-E-R. I have a Patreon, Tyler Talks, patreon.com slash Tyler Talks. Uh, my comedy

01:15:45.960 special will be out on Patreon in the next few weeks. And then, uh, all social media platforms,

01:15:51.480 Ty the Fish, T-Y the F-I-S-C-H. Fantastic stuff.

01:15:55.880 And just look for the, um, the witch's cap, uh, is my penis. It's my penis. Yeah. Picture. 1.00

01:16:02.600 Fantastic stuff, man. Tyler, thanks so much for coming on. Thank you guys for watching. We'll

01:16:06.800 see you and listening. Of course, we'll see you very soon with another brilliant episode like this

01:16:11.260 one or Raw Show. All of them go out at 7 p.m. UK time. And for those of you who like your

01:16:16.280 trigonometry on the go, it's also available as a podcast. Take care and see you soon, guys. And join

01:16:22.720 locals. Comedy.

01:16:25.880 Please ask him if he'd do his Bill Burr impression and tell a nearly six-foot Highlander it's brutal.

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TRIGGERnometry - August 29, 2022

Comedian Discriminated Against for Being White - Tyler Fischer

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Transcript