TRIGGERnometry - Comedian James McCann Destroys Triggernometry

00:00:01.000 You're all touchy about Grenfell Tower.

00:00:05.000 You're a good Catholic boy, aren't you?

00:00:07.000 Yes. Masturbating. I'm trying to stop that.

00:00:10.000 How's that going?

00:00:11.000 Not great. You've got to take back America. I believe in you.

00:00:14.000 Take back America?

00:00:16.000 Yeah. I'm not an Enoch Powell supporter. He was gay.

00:00:19.000 What do you mean Enoch Powell was gay?

00:00:21.000 I mean he was a gay man who did gay things.

00:00:23.000 He was married to a woman his entire life.

00:00:25.000 Of course. No married man could participate in homosexuality.

00:00:29.000 Made in homosex. I love gay people. Big fan.

00:00:33.000 Obviously the gay stuff has to stop, but as people, some of the best.

00:00:39.000 So, you're in Austin?

00:00:42.000 No, that's not going to work.

00:00:44.000 Sounds like people hate freedom on this podcast.

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00:01:51.000 James McCann, welcome to Trigonometry.

00:01:53.000 It's an honor and a privilege to be here.

00:01:55.000 You said that way too fast.

00:01:56.000 Yeah, I was ready.

00:01:59.000 Thank you for having me on.

00:02:00.000 Yeah, it's great to have you on.

00:02:01.000 Yeah, I'm not going to get arrested in the UK from being on this show.

00:02:04.000 Are you planning to go to the UK?

00:02:06.000 One day.

00:02:07.000 Well, then you don't know.

00:02:08.000 No.

00:02:09.000 I went last year.

00:02:10.000 It wasn't that bad.

00:02:11.000 I thought you could get away with more things than I thought I could get away with.

00:02:14.000 You're all touchy about Grenfell Tower.

00:02:18.000 Yeah, a little bit.

00:02:19.000 Like really, every strata of society doesn't want to talk about Grenfell Tower.

00:02:23.000 Yeah.

00:02:24.000 And did you try and make jokes about this any time?

00:02:26.000 Yeah, I did.

00:02:27.000 I did a good five on Grenfell Tower.

00:02:28.000 How did that go?

00:02:30.000 Like a tower on fire.

00:02:32.000 No, it's really like a national...

00:02:36.000 It's not clear from the UK media from abroad that that has stayed with the UK people.

00:02:42.000 But boy, you will think about it a lot.

00:02:44.000 No one wants to talk about it.

00:02:45.000 You say that it's like the N-word.

00:02:47.000 It really takes the air out of a room.

00:02:49.000 Did you do that as well?

00:02:51.000 Did you do that much?

00:02:52.000 No, I left that one out.

00:02:53.000 Yeah.

00:02:54.000 The Grenfell Tower I wanted to talk about immensely.

00:02:56.000 You know, what is comedy but finding where the crack is in someone's...

00:02:59.000 You find where the difficult, you know, the points in the body politic that have to be unspooled.

00:03:05.000 And that's yours, I think.

00:03:06.000 Really?

00:03:07.000 Talking about all the mosques, that was fine.

00:03:09.000 A lot of mosques.

00:03:10.000 Really?

00:03:11.000 That's interesting.

00:03:12.000 People were happy to talk about the mosques.

00:03:14.000 Compared to Grenfell Tower?

00:03:16.000 Wow.

00:03:17.000 They wanted to talk about the towers on those mosques.

00:03:19.000 Those beautiful mosques.

00:03:21.000 I did keep calling them beautiful mosques.

00:03:23.000 That might have helped.

00:03:24.000 That might have eased it.

00:03:26.000 And what did you think of London when you were there?

00:03:28.000 You said it wasn't that bad.

00:03:29.000 What were you expecting and what was the reality?

00:03:31.000 I thought it would be like Peckham over the whole thing.

00:03:35.000 But it was really just localised to Peckham.

00:03:37.000 No, they saw some nice parts of London.

00:03:38.000 They were very nice.

00:03:39.000 And Peckham, by the way?

00:03:40.000 Great.

00:03:41.000 Love Peckham.

00:03:42.000 Peckhamplex?

00:03:43.000 Beautiful.

00:03:44.000 I did go to the convenience store where you can buy a knife next to a ski mask.

00:03:48.000 What do you call them here?

00:03:49.000 What do you call them in the UK?

00:03:50.000 A face covering.

00:03:52.000 Not that kind of face covering.

00:03:54.000 Not a ski mask?

00:03:56.000 Yeah.

00:03:57.000 Balaclavas next to the knives behind the counter.

00:04:00.000 It's a convenience store.

00:04:01.000 It's too convenient.

00:04:02.000 You should have to go to two shops if you're going to murder people.

00:04:05.000 I mean, it's beautiful.

00:04:07.000 Great chicken.

00:04:08.000 You guys don't like KFC over there.

00:04:11.000 You look down on it.

00:04:12.000 You've got proper chicken places.

00:04:14.000 I wouldn't say we've got proper chicken places.

00:04:16.000 We just...

00:04:17.000 Oh, you've got the finest.

00:04:18.000 We've got the finest chicken.

00:04:19.000 We've got PFC.

00:04:20.000 We've got...

00:04:21.000 Yeah.

00:04:22.000 We've got all the knockoffs.

00:04:23.000 We'd love it.

00:04:24.000 What does P stand for?

00:04:25.000 Probably.

00:04:26.000 Peckham fried chicken.

00:04:27.000 That's it.

00:04:28.000 It's a great brand.

00:04:29.000 It might be Pakistani.

00:04:30.000 But the important thing is it's a great country and you're on the way back.

00:04:33.000 Yeah?

00:04:34.000 Maybe.

00:04:35.000 Yeah.

00:04:36.000 Not so sure.

00:04:37.000 But you're here in the US.

00:04:38.000 Yes.

00:04:39.000 You're Aussie originally, right?

00:04:40.000 Yeah.

00:04:41.000 How did that happen?

00:04:42.000 It was kind of an accident.

00:04:45.000 I got offered a job and I got fired a year and a half ago.

00:04:50.000 And I was in Steubenville, Ohio, which is just outside of West Virginia on the Ohio River,

00:04:57.000 unemployed and three months of rent and no money.

00:05:02.000 And then Shane Gillis said, you can come and open for me and I moved to Austin.

00:05:06.000 And it's been great.

00:05:08.000 But it was very strange.

00:05:10.000 I got the full poor American experience.

00:05:13.000 That's not good, is it?

00:05:15.000 Yeah.

00:05:16.000 I don't want to be poor in America.

00:05:17.000 No.

00:05:18.000 I always say America is probably the best place in the world to be rich.

00:05:22.000 Yes.

00:05:23.000 Okay place and a good place to be medium income, but a horrific place to be poor.

00:05:29.000 Is that about right?

00:05:30.000 You haven't been on the bus yet.

00:05:31.000 No.

00:05:32.000 I've been on the bus.

00:05:33.000 Greyhound bus?

00:05:34.000 No, no.

00:05:35.000 In a city bus.

00:05:36.000 I took, I was, because when I was skinned in like 02, the first time I came to America,

00:05:41.000 and I took the bus in LA.

00:05:44.000 Yeah.

00:05:45.000 And I was the only white person on the bus.

00:05:48.000 And they looked at me almost as if to say, how has this Jew ruined his life?

00:05:53.000 I believe it.

00:05:54.000 How have you fallen so far?

00:05:56.000 You had all these advantages.

00:05:57.000 There's been a mistake.

00:05:58.000 Yeah.

00:05:59.000 Whereas in the UK, public transport is very normal.

00:06:01.000 Yeah.

00:06:02.000 Rich people do it.

00:06:03.000 Yeah.

00:06:04.000 And it's nice.

00:06:05.000 Yeah.

00:06:06.000 It's kind of nice.

00:06:07.000 Not as nice as it used to be.

00:06:09.000 But anyway.

00:06:10.000 The buses are beautiful.

00:06:11.000 I mean, you guys really pick graphic design on the buses.

00:06:14.000 That red bus in London.

00:06:16.000 Love it.

00:06:17.000 You can walk everywhere.

00:06:19.000 I love that.

00:06:20.000 Do you miss that in the US?

00:06:21.000 Yeah.

00:06:22.000 Yeah.

00:06:23.000 Yes.

00:06:24.000 Yeah.

00:06:25.000 We need a walkable.

00:06:26.000 You need to be able to walk places.

00:06:28.000 Yeah.

00:06:29.000 No, to have a body politic, to have people congeal and love their neighbor.

00:06:32.000 You've got to meet them sometimes.

00:06:33.000 You can't just be in your car all the time.

00:06:35.000 I completely agree with you.

00:06:37.000 Yeah.

00:06:38.000 I think it's so important.

00:06:39.000 Like, you want to think.

00:06:40.000 You go for a walk.

00:06:41.000 Yes.

00:06:42.000 And it's so interesting.

00:06:44.000 Like, you talk to the Aussies and the Europeans, and you go to them.

00:06:48.000 You always say it low, because it's kind of taboo, because Americans think you're weird.

00:06:52.000 You're like, do you miss walking?

00:06:53.000 And they go, yeah, I miss walking.

00:06:54.000 I do it.

00:06:55.000 I try and do it here.

00:06:56.000 It never ends great.

00:06:58.000 But I have gotten to see a lot more of Spanish-style Austin, which I would never see otherwise.

00:07:07.000 I would just drive from my little white suburban neighborhood to the place I work.

00:07:11.000 But if I go for a walk, I have a fajita breakfast.

00:07:15.000 I have a little weird pineapple drink.

00:07:17.000 No one speaks English.

00:07:18.000 It's great.

00:07:19.000 But you never encounter that.

00:07:21.000 You don't know what's out there if you are always in the automobile.

00:07:24.000 So, come back to the poor thing.

00:07:26.000 Okay, yeah.

00:07:27.000 In America.

00:07:28.000 Yeah.

00:07:29.000 We're going to do it.

00:07:30.000 There are more workarounds here for being poor than people think.

00:07:33.000 Like for medical care, there are little hokey.

00:07:37.000 If you keep asking and keep trying, you can get care as a poor person, I discovered.

00:07:43.000 Specialists will see you for little money if you call 10 of them.

00:07:47.000 But it is, you have to have a hustle.

00:07:50.000 You know what I mean?

00:07:51.000 You have to really push for it.

00:07:52.000 But it's out there.

00:07:53.000 This thing of like, it's a nightmarish system.

00:07:54.000 They can hit you with a bad bill, but it's not like a third world country for the poor.

00:07:59.000 But boy, we could do something about that.

00:08:02.000 Why can't they do public transport?

00:08:03.000 Why don't they want to?

00:08:05.000 Because everyone wants to have their own car.

00:08:07.000 But even in like liberal California, they tried building a high-speed rail between San Francisco

00:08:12.000 and LA, and you'd think that would be the easiest thing in the world.

00:08:15.000 They can't do it.

00:08:16.000 It's billions of dollars over budget, and it hasn't been built.

00:08:18.000 They cannot, they cannot will themselves to have a train.

00:08:22.000 Why do you think that is?

00:08:23.000 I don't know.

00:08:24.000 You've been here, and you know, you've been in a country where they really have it.

00:08:28.000 They really, they just build-

00:08:29.000 We can't build anything anymore either.

00:08:30.000 No.

00:08:31.000 No, we can't.

00:08:32.000 Rishi Sunak got rid of that high-speed link between the North and Birmingham.

00:08:36.000 Yeah.

00:08:37.000 But for-

00:08:38.000 You're going to build that other train, right?

00:08:39.000 To build anything basically in Britain is like five times more expensive than anywhere else.

00:08:43.000 Because if there's some rare bat that happens to live near where you want to put the train tracks,

00:08:48.000 you have to do a multi-million pound consultation.

00:08:52.000 We've got a badger love.

00:08:54.000 I love badgers.

00:08:55.000 Is that it?

00:08:56.000 Yeah, we love badgers.

00:08:57.000 We love all animals in the UK.

00:08:59.000 Yeah.

00:09:00.000 We do.

00:09:01.000 We sentimentalize animals like no other nation.

00:09:04.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:09:05.000 You can kill people and no one will give a shit.

00:09:08.000 But if you displace a badger-

00:09:10.000 Yes.

00:09:11.000 You're in trouble.

00:09:12.000 Maybe they should say that they're grooming gangs for animals.

00:09:15.000 Then people will talk about it.

00:09:17.000 No, people will cover it up.

00:09:19.000 What's happening with the-

00:09:20.000 When I was there years ago, everybody knew about the grooming gangs.

00:09:23.000 People would-

00:09:24.000 Liberals, Guardian readers would go, oh yeah, the grooming gangs.

00:09:26.000 That's real.

00:09:27.000 Everybody acknowledges that there was grooming gangs.

00:09:30.000 Nothing has ever been done about it.

00:09:32.000 Everyone's been very quiet about it.

00:09:33.000 Why?

00:09:34.000 There's an inquiry that is happening now and all the victims and survivors, a lot of them have resigned from it

00:09:44.000 because they say the government isn't taking it too seriously and the government isn't taking it seriously enough

00:09:49.000 because of the racial component, let's say.

00:09:56.000 Right.

00:09:57.000 Right.

00:09:58.000 Because Pakistani people from a very particular part of Pakistan are way overrepresented in these crimes.

00:10:07.000 If you start addressing that seriously, you then blow the central ideological component out, which is we're all the same.

00:10:17.000 Yeah.

00:10:18.000 And they just can't do it.

00:10:19.000 They can't handle it.

00:10:20.000 America can address those.

00:10:21.000 America has no pretense to everybody being the same.

00:10:25.000 They've got five racial categories and they're very open to they're all different.

00:10:29.000 They know whose fault it is.

00:10:31.000 And for different, I mean, really, you know, white people take blame for some things.

00:10:36.000 But you guys just clump all the non-whites into one.

00:10:39.000 Right.

00:10:40.000 Yeah.

00:10:41.000 BAME?

00:10:42.000 How do I say that?

00:10:43.000 I mean, I don't know if you've got them anymore because people realize it was kind of retarded.

00:10:46.000 But you've got Asian.

00:10:47.000 And Asian...

00:10:48.000 It means something different.

00:10:49.000 Asian means Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Indian, etc.

00:10:54.000 Yeah.

00:10:55.000 Like there's the Asian community.

00:10:56.000 East of the Urals, everybody's Asian.

00:10:58.000 Which is kind of weird because they all kind of hate each other.

00:11:01.000 Yes.

00:11:02.000 Like the Indians and the Pakistanis are not best friends.

00:11:04.000 Historically, there are problems there.

00:11:05.000 Yeah.

00:11:06.000 Yeah.

00:11:07.000 But when they come to Britain, they're Asian.

00:11:09.000 Great.

00:11:10.000 It just seems like a wide cudgel to...

00:11:13.000 It is.

00:11:14.000 ...to deal with.

00:11:15.000 Yeah, you've got to deal with the grooming gangs.

00:11:17.000 I think you'll figure it out.

00:11:19.000 I do...

00:11:20.000 Why?

00:11:21.000 You've got to.

00:11:22.000 No?

00:11:23.000 Why do you think we'll work it out?

00:11:25.000 Stiff upper lip.

00:11:28.000 That's about it.

00:11:30.000 Are you worried that...

00:11:31.000 Yeah.

00:11:32.000 You're not convincing me.

00:11:33.000 I'm trying to convince myself.

00:11:35.000 I would like Britain to be great, but I don't see...

00:11:38.000 I mean, how...

00:11:39.000 You don't have very much land.

00:11:40.000 You don't have very much...

00:11:42.000 Your military is very small.

00:11:44.000 Small.

00:11:45.000 What are we hoping for, for Britain?

00:11:48.000 What is the dream that Brexit could achieve?

00:11:52.000 What is...

00:11:53.000 Like, what is best case scenario?

00:11:55.000 When Nigel Farage says we're going to make this a great place again,

00:11:58.000 what does that mean?

00:11:59.000 Where is the growth opportunity?

00:12:01.000 Is it just repatriation?

00:12:03.000 There's got to be other stuff.

00:12:05.000 I think what Farage is talking about when he says makes Britain great again is,

00:12:10.000 particularly under the EU, we had to live and abide by certain laws and legislations

00:12:15.000 which weren't in British interest.

00:12:17.000 So, by becoming independent, we could be the masters of our own destiny.

00:12:22.000 You can make your small cheeses.

00:12:23.000 Yeah.

00:12:24.000 This was the example.

00:12:25.000 Well...

00:12:26.000 Do you think that a factory will be built somewhere at some point?

00:12:29.000 Well, this is the thing...

00:12:30.000 You coming back to public transport and cars, right?

00:12:33.000 In Europe and in Britain, especially, we have this thing called net zero.

00:12:37.000 Yeah.

00:12:38.000 Which is...

00:12:39.000 Even the craziest liberals in America all think...

00:12:43.000 All want a big car and want to be able to drive around and have electricity in the house

00:12:49.000 and for it to be cheap and free and gas to be, you know, priced at as low as possible and all that.

00:12:55.000 Yeah.

00:12:56.000 In Britain, we don't have that.

00:12:58.000 In Britain, we want to make energy very expensive to save the planet.

00:13:02.000 People were annoyed by the low emission zone.

00:13:05.000 I did find.

00:13:06.000 Hmm.

00:13:07.000 They were happy to talk about the low emission zone when I was on stage there.

00:13:10.000 Grenfell Tower, not at all.

00:13:11.000 Low emission zone, that's starting to be something people were.

00:13:15.000 Acknowledging was a problem.

00:13:17.000 Hmm.

00:13:18.000 No?

00:13:19.000 It's not popular.

00:13:20.000 You've got these very niche talking points about Britain.

00:13:23.000 I wonder where you got them.

00:13:24.000 I just stumbled around for two weeks and spoke to some people.

00:13:27.000 And they talked about the low emission zone.

00:13:29.000 There was a lot of people wanting to complain about the low emission zone.

00:13:32.000 I heard that...

00:13:33.000 Who's the current Prince of Wales?

00:13:36.000 The current Prince of Wales?

00:13:38.000 Yeah.

00:13:39.000 It was William William.

00:13:41.000 I heard he got pegged.

00:13:42.000 I don't believe it.

00:13:43.000 I don't believe it.

00:13:44.000 But that's what people are saying.

00:13:45.000 That's like a nasty rumor about him that I found out about.

00:13:48.000 I love Kate.

00:13:50.000 Why do you like Kate?

00:13:53.000 Charisma.

00:13:54.000 Aura.

00:13:55.000 What's their not...

00:13:56.000 Do you not love Kate?

00:13:57.000 Oh.

00:13:58.000 Oh.

00:13:59.000 I'm a fan.

00:14:00.000 Really?

00:14:01.000 Yeah.

00:14:02.000 I'm a huge Kate fan.

00:14:03.000 She's great.

00:14:04.000 I don't think that her husband was pegged.

00:14:05.000 I don't think she would marry a man who did that.

00:14:06.000 I don't think she would do that.

00:14:07.000 No, no, do I?

00:14:08.000 It almost makes you wonder why you brought it up.

00:14:10.000 I heard about it.

00:14:11.000 I'm just saying.

00:14:12.000 These are the things I heard about when I was in the UK.

00:14:13.000 This is all I know about the UK.

00:14:15.000 Yeah.

00:14:16.000 It's that and the new Statesman podcast.

00:14:17.000 The future king gets pegged.

00:14:18.000 Yeah.

00:14:19.000 We...

00:14:20.000 Not true.

00:14:21.000 Nasty rumor.

00:14:22.000 Yeah.

00:14:23.000 No one should even talk about it.

00:14:24.000 Yeah.

00:14:25.000 I'm glad we're established though.

00:14:26.000 Yeah.

00:14:27.000 And the new Statesman podcast.

00:14:28.000 We can't forget about that.

00:14:29.000 Which you love.

00:14:30.000 Who's this...

00:14:31.000 There's this lady who writes for the Atlantic now.

00:14:34.000 Who interviewed Jordan Peterson.

00:14:35.000 Helen Lewis.

00:14:36.000 Yes.

00:14:37.000 She's...

00:14:38.000 Now, we would disagree about almost everything.

00:14:39.000 She's very good.

00:14:40.000 She is very good.

00:14:41.000 Yeah.

00:14:42.000 She's interviewed me.

00:14:43.000 I respect her even though I...

00:14:44.000 Yeah, like you say, I don't agree with things.

00:14:46.000 But she had a very...

00:14:47.000 Her and Stephen Bush had a very charismatic...

00:14:49.000 When they were in charge of the new Statesman podcast, that was a great podcast.

00:14:53.000 Everyone was having fun.

00:14:54.000 It seemed like the Labor Party might be cool and groovy and people would like them.

00:14:59.000 It didn't turn out that way.

00:15:01.000 I understand.

00:15:02.000 But this is all I know about Britain.

00:15:04.000 I'm just throwing every British fact I know.

00:15:06.000 But James, let's go back to America.

00:15:08.000 Okay.

00:15:09.000 Because your stand-up deals with a lot of America, your love of America, in particular

00:15:14.000 the quirky little idiosyncrasies of this country, of this beautiful nation.

00:15:18.000 Yeah.

00:15:19.000 So what do you think of it?

00:15:20.000 Do you love it?

00:15:21.000 Are you American now?

00:15:22.000 Are you America?

00:15:23.000 I don't really believe in immigration and being able to become someone you weren't born

00:15:28.000 as.

00:15:29.000 But I love America.

00:15:30.000 You don't believe in trans-positioning for immigration?

00:15:33.000 Yes.

00:15:34.000 Trans-culturalism.

00:15:35.000 I am a cultural determinist.

00:15:36.000 Yes.

00:15:37.000 No, I mean, look, it's a great country and I like college football and I like traveling

00:15:41.000 around and all the beautiful American people.

00:15:44.000 But there is this gulf between them and that I, to become American feels.

00:15:49.000 What's the gulf?

00:15:51.000 It's the gulf of America.

00:15:54.000 It's, I don't know.

00:15:57.000 I think maybe as a Commonwealth person that some kind of irony, I don't want to, that's

00:16:03.000 always like a dig.

00:16:04.000 And, you know, from the countries of the monarchy, we dig on America and we go, they don't understand

00:16:09.000 irony.

00:16:10.000 They don't have the bleakness and the darkness that we have in our soul.

00:16:13.000 They don't though.

00:16:14.000 Yeah.

00:16:15.000 That's factually correct.

00:16:16.000 It's not a dig.

00:16:17.000 They try to.

00:16:18.000 They give it a go sometimes.

00:16:19.000 The hipsters in Brooklyn.

00:16:20.000 Yeah.

00:16:21.000 And Jews in America, they've got that sense of humor.

00:16:22.000 Jews everywhere.

00:16:23.000 Right.

00:16:24.000 They've got nice things to say about the Jews capacity for cynicism.

00:16:27.000 It's big.

00:16:28.000 Yeah.

00:16:29.000 Historically well informed cynicism.

00:16:32.000 But yeah, in the greater America, there's a, there's a puritanism here and like a, childishness

00:16:39.000 makes it sound bad, but there's like a, yeah, optimism and hope.

00:16:42.000 And I find that.

00:16:43.000 It's very uncomfortable, isn't it?

00:16:44.000 Indeed.

00:16:45.000 Yes.

00:16:46.000 I don't know what to do with it, but it's also true.

00:16:48.000 I mean, they have that and then they've built a beautiful, huge, powerful con.

00:16:52.000 Yeah.

00:16:53.000 It's great.

00:16:54.000 It is great.

00:16:55.000 And Britain must've had that once.

00:16:58.000 I'm sorry to turn it back, but you guys have, I mean, when you were running an empire,

00:17:03.000 were you like that?

00:17:04.000 No.

00:17:05.000 So when did it kick in?

00:17:06.000 When did all the cynicism start with the Brits?

00:17:08.000 World War one, I think.

00:17:10.000 What?

00:17:11.000 Was it the trenches?

00:17:12.000 It was, you thought you were going to be home for Christmas?

00:17:13.000 Yeah.

00:17:14.000 Yeah.

00:17:15.000 Yeah.

00:17:16.000 Yeah.

00:17:17.000 It didn't go well.

00:17:18.000 You won.

00:17:19.000 Yeah.

00:17:20.000 The Pyrrhic victory though.

00:17:21.000 Yeah.

00:17:22.000 You held onto the empire after that one?

00:17:23.000 For a bit.

00:17:24.000 Yeah.

00:17:25.000 And then World War II is what sealed it.

00:17:26.000 Right.

00:17:27.000 You guys didn't even want the empire anymore.

00:17:28.000 You lost the moral legitimacy in owning other countries.

00:17:30.000 Yeah.

00:17:31.000 That's a, that's your problem.

00:17:32.000 Yeah.

00:17:33.000 Yeah.

00:17:34.000 Do you think we should go back out there and reestablish what is ours?

00:17:37.000 I think that would be an interesting start for the, not for the other countries.

00:17:43.000 That might be really bad for them, but for Britain's feeling of a purpose and a place

00:17:48.000 in the world.

00:17:49.000 Yes.

00:17:50.000 The, you, I mean, having lost India.

00:17:53.000 Is India better off?

00:17:54.000 Yeah.

00:17:55.000 This will be good.

00:17:56.000 Is India better off for having lost the British hand?

00:17:59.000 You gave them railroads and infrastructure and you kept the peace between the Muslim and

00:18:04.000 the Hindu.

00:18:05.000 Is that not something to, is that not nice?

00:18:08.000 Do you stop people burning their wives?

00:18:10.000 Did they burn their wives?

00:18:12.000 Yeah.

00:18:13.000 This is, this is like my favorite British, you know, like they go to a wife, but it's

00:18:19.000 like some commander of the British army and they, the Indians start burning their wives

00:18:25.000 and they go, you can't do that.

00:18:26.000 And the Indians go, this is our culture.

00:18:28.000 And the British go, it's our culture not to let people burn their wives.

00:18:31.000 It was after the man had died, the woman would have to be burned to join him.

00:18:35.000 I think.

00:18:36.000 Like the Vikings.

00:18:37.000 Yeah.

00:18:38.000 Instead of a boat.

00:18:39.000 Yeah.

00:18:40.000 Say a lady.

00:18:41.000 Most days for us are jam packed.

00:18:44.000 Meetings, shoots, research, script reviews, everything happening at once.

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00:20:11.000 Getting ready for a game means being ready for anything.

00:20:18.000 Like packing a spare stick.

00:20:20.000 I like to be prepared.

00:20:21.000 That's why I remember 988 Canada's Suicide Crisis Helpline.

00:20:25.000 It's good to know, just in case.

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00:20:33.000 988 Suicide Crisis Helpline is funded by the government in Canada.

00:20:40.000 That's, look, let's talk about the Empire.

00:20:43.000 You are one of our former colonies.

00:20:44.000 That's right.

00:20:45.000 Yeah.

00:20:46.000 And do you feel a sense of gratitude to us kids?

00:20:49.000 Every day.

00:20:50.000 Every day with my hot water bottle and my cup of tea and my Father Christmas instead of Santa Claus.

00:20:57.000 And yeah, who wouldn't like, it's very nice, the British.

00:21:01.000 And when I go there, boy, it feels like home in the UK.

00:21:04.000 Hmm.

00:21:05.000 Because I'm looking at you and you look a little Irish to me, James McCann.

00:21:08.000 It's in there.

00:21:09.000 It is.

00:21:10.000 But even then, what is Ireland if not?

00:21:12.000 I mean, they're not as open to saying some nice things happened with the British.

00:21:17.000 Yeah.

00:21:18.000 Obviously Ireland for the Irish and up the Ra and all the good stuff.

00:21:22.000 But we've got to acknowledge, we've got to acknowledge that there was given to me.

00:21:29.000 Someone's been hanging out with Shane.

00:21:31.000 Shane does not endorse sectarian violence in the UK.

00:21:36.000 You do that all by yourself.

00:21:38.000 Well, I would like it if kneecap were not addicted to cocaine so visibly.

00:21:42.000 I've never met them, but everything I see from them, they look very...

00:21:46.000 I don't think that's the spirit of Irish independence, is it?

00:21:49.000 Just to be gacked out of your mind all the time?

00:21:52.000 The thing about kneecaps that I find very troubling is their music is good.

00:21:56.000 Yeah, it's great.

00:21:57.000 So it doesn't matter the crazy shit that they say.

00:21:59.000 Well, I mean, I'm not saying it doesn't matter.

00:22:01.000 It matters.

00:22:02.000 Mm-hmm.

00:22:03.000 But also, their music is good.

00:22:04.000 Well, that's true of all Irish revel...

00:22:06.000 This is where Hamas have a big problem, long term.

00:22:09.000 The music game.

00:22:10.000 No good song.

00:22:11.000 Yeah.

00:22:12.000 Isis, not one banger.

00:22:13.000 Well, some explosions.

00:22:14.000 Yeah, the Irish have great.

00:22:17.000 Sinead O'Connor.

00:22:18.000 Yeah.

00:22:19.000 Do you know Seamat?

00:22:20.000 No.

00:22:21.000 She's great.

00:22:22.000 Beautiful Irish songbird.

00:22:24.000 She's a big...

00:22:25.000 Graham Norton has a sort of lyrical quality to it.

00:22:27.000 I'm not sure he's an up-the-rock kind of guy, but yeah.

00:22:31.000 I reckon if you get Graham Norton after a couple of drinks.

00:22:34.000 Well, we could talk about sectarian violence with him.

00:22:36.000 Wouldn't that be fun to go on the Graham Norton show and get...

00:22:39.000 You know, they bring you alcohol.

00:22:40.000 Yeah.

00:22:41.000 That's my dream, is to have eight Guinnesses and by the end be going,

00:22:44.000 I'm a fan!

00:22:46.000 Afterrah!

00:22:47.000 Graham!

00:22:48.000 Wouldn't that be fun?

00:22:49.000 I think that would be fun.

00:22:50.000 I mean, it would be a fantastic way to end your career in his.

00:22:53.000 I think they might edit it out.

00:22:54.000 Yeah.

00:22:55.000 Yeah.

00:22:56.000 And edit you out.

00:22:57.000 Shame.

00:22:58.000 Shame on the BBC.

00:22:59.000 Why does it exist?

00:23:00.000 You've got state media.

00:23:01.000 Yeah.

00:23:02.000 Get rid of it.

00:23:03.000 Here's the thing about the BBC, which every single person in the UK will say,

00:23:08.000 I love the BBC.

00:23:09.000 Sure.

00:23:10.000 I loved what it was.

00:23:11.000 I loved the comedy.

00:23:13.000 Let's be fair.

00:23:14.000 The comedy the BBC produced and Channel 4, those sitcoms were the best...

00:23:18.000 They did a very good job for a very long time.

00:23:21.000 They did the best job.

00:23:22.000 They're better than all American sitcoms.

00:23:25.000 The Simpsons is...

00:23:27.000 You've done nothing to compare with The Simpsons.

00:23:29.000 But I will say, you've done a very good job otherwise.

00:23:32.000 What about faulty towers?

00:23:34.000 It's fine.

00:23:35.000 What?

00:23:36.000 What?

00:23:37.000 Excuse me.

00:23:38.000 It's fine.

00:23:39.000 Don't come over here in my Airbnb with its beautiful design.

00:23:44.000 Not a faulty towers defender.

00:23:45.000 I think it's fine.

00:23:46.000 Okay.

00:23:47.000 What about the other Monty Python stuff?

00:23:50.000 Life of Brian.

00:23:51.000 Great.

00:23:52.000 Ah, you shut up now, haven't you?

00:23:56.000 No, no.

00:23:57.000 I mean, it's fine.

00:23:58.000 Very deeply anti-Catholic.

00:23:59.000 But otherwise, fine.

00:24:01.000 Ah, so it's...

00:24:02.000 What about the downsides though?

00:24:03.000 Hmm?

00:24:04.000 How dare you?

00:24:05.000 How dare you?

00:24:06.000 How dare you?

00:24:07.000 How dare you speak that way about the emerging religion in your country?

00:24:10.000 As the Church of England withers on the vine, it's over for them.

00:24:13.000 Are you covering that?

00:24:14.000 I know you asked that at the end about what's the one thing we should talk about.

00:24:17.000 We will.

00:24:18.000 I'll save it.

00:24:19.000 You kind of already gave it away.

00:24:21.000 Church of England is collapsing and no one's talking about it.

00:24:24.000 Yes.

00:24:25.000 We just left.

00:24:26.000 Well, the Church of England basically is like become uber woke.

00:24:30.000 Sure.

00:24:31.000 Yeah.

00:24:32.000 Ladies.

00:24:33.000 You're letting ladies perform the priestly rites?

00:24:36.000 Mm.

00:24:37.000 Dang.

00:24:38.000 Mm.

00:24:39.000 Shut that down.

00:24:40.000 Well, you're a good Catholic boy, aren't you?

00:24:42.000 Yes.

00:24:43.000 Well, I mean, obviously full of...

00:24:45.000 I've got a lot of problems.

00:24:46.000 Full of sin.

00:24:47.000 I think dogmatically I'm on the page.

00:24:49.000 I try to be.

00:24:50.000 A lot of problems.

00:24:52.000 Going on the road, going to hotels, being all alone.

00:24:54.000 Masturbating is...

00:24:56.000 Trying to stop that.

00:24:57.000 How's that going?

00:24:58.000 Not great.

00:24:59.000 I mean, they give you a Bible so you can read it afterwards and cleanse yourself.

00:25:05.000 Or before...

00:25:06.000 And the Book of Mormon in this country.

00:25:08.000 Do they give...

00:25:09.000 There's a Book of Mormon?

00:25:10.000 There's often a Book of Mormon next to Gideon's Bible.

00:25:13.000 Do you not know that?

00:25:15.000 No, I've never seen a Book of Mormon.

00:25:16.000 No, I've never seen a Book of Mormon.

00:25:17.000 Someone's never been suicidal in an American hotel room.

00:25:20.000 No, it's right there.

00:25:22.000 It's amazing because there's so many Mormons in this country, but in England, it's seen

00:25:29.000 as this kind of weird...

00:25:30.000 The only thing...

00:25:31.000 If you say to a person in the UK about the Mormons and they say, name one thing, they'll

00:25:36.000 say the musical, the Book of Mormon.

00:25:37.000 Yeah.

00:25:38.000 Which is great.

00:25:39.000 Well, it's an American-centric religion.

00:25:41.000 It's all about manifest destiny and how good America is.

00:25:45.000 So I can understand if you guys are unhappy about that.

00:25:48.000 You've got to take them back.

00:25:50.000 You've got to take back America.

00:25:51.000 I believe in you.

00:25:52.000 Take back America.

00:25:54.000 Yeah.

00:25:55.000 Civil War number four.

00:25:57.000 I'm guessing there was a third one in between.

00:25:59.000 Maybe a second.

00:26:00.000 It's your...

00:26:01.000 It was yours.

00:26:02.000 You had the right to it.

00:26:03.000 They beat you.

00:26:04.000 You can beat it.

00:26:05.000 You try it again.

00:26:06.000 What?

00:26:07.000 Eighteen-something war.

00:26:08.000 You tried to take America back once and it didn't pan out.

00:26:11.000 But do you ever...

00:26:12.000 You think this is a good moment right now?

00:26:14.000 They're looking for leadership.

00:26:15.000 The balance of power is...

00:26:16.000 They're looking for leadership.

00:26:17.000 They say no kings.

00:26:19.000 They can have one.

00:26:20.000 Keir Starmer.

00:26:21.000 That's not who I'd put forward as the guy.

00:26:24.000 Why do you all hate him?

00:26:26.000 We don't.

00:26:27.000 This is the...

00:26:28.000 He's the least popular man, though.

00:26:30.000 But see, this is the thing.

00:26:32.000 No one actively hates Keir Starmer.

00:26:35.000 The country's just gone to shit and he happens to be in charge and he can't do anything to not make it work.

00:26:40.000 Is it noticeably more shit than it was ten years ago?

00:26:42.000 Yeah.

00:26:43.000 Caveat.

00:26:44.000 Yes, it is.

00:26:45.000 There are people who hate Keir Starmer and they're all on the left.

00:26:48.000 Okay.

00:26:49.000 What I'm saying, though, is like...

00:26:51.000 I guess what I'm saying is it's not actually his fault.

00:26:54.000 Right.

00:26:55.000 He's just a boring guy.

00:26:56.000 Who can't fix the problems of the country because they're very hard to fix.

00:27:00.000 But what...

00:27:01.000 I mean, how would you fix any of the problems?

00:27:04.000 All of the...

00:27:05.000 Britain's grandeur is built...

00:27:06.000 You have a huge empire.

00:27:07.000 Right.

00:27:08.000 Before the empire, you were, what, a pirate state?

00:27:12.000 There was nothing going for...

00:27:14.000 In terms of world importance, before the 1500s, what did Britain...

00:27:18.000 There was no great towers.

00:27:19.000 There were no great marble things.

00:27:21.000 There was no top hats and...

00:27:24.000 Mary Poppins type behavior.

00:27:26.000 It's all built on the wealth of empire.

00:27:27.000 And you give up the empire and you go, why is it all falling apart?

00:27:30.000 It's because you're not extracting wealth from Africa.

00:27:33.000 You think we should bring back colonialism?

00:27:35.000 I think you have to choose between being a great country and accepting a mediocre place

00:27:40.000 in the world.

00:27:41.000 And sadly, that would require a lot of violence.

00:27:44.000 But you're going to become the Singapore of Europe?

00:27:47.000 Switzerland's already done that.

00:27:48.000 You're not going to get all the banking.

00:27:50.000 No.

00:27:51.000 Switzerland has an independence to it that the Brits don't even want.

00:27:56.000 You're so pleased to be.

00:27:58.000 You have European continental ideology on the...

00:28:01.000 So who should we colonize, do you think?

00:28:04.000 It's a great question.

00:28:05.000 I haven't decided yet.

00:28:08.000 Certainly Normandy, you have a historical right to.

00:28:11.000 Yes.

00:28:12.000 Absolutely.

00:28:13.000 And Brittany.

00:28:14.000 It's in the name.

00:28:15.000 I mean, that's what I meant to say.

00:28:17.000 Hmm.

00:28:18.000 They still play bagpipes there.

00:28:20.000 What, and Brittany?

00:28:21.000 Yeah.

00:28:22.000 I think they'll...

00:28:23.000 That's a reasonable...

00:28:24.000 That's a reasonable excuse.

00:28:26.000 Henry V takes that?

00:28:29.000 Am I right?

00:28:30.000 Yeah.

00:28:31.000 I am.

00:28:32.000 They don't know about any of that here.

00:28:33.000 I'm excited to get to speak to anyone who knows the name of more than one king.

00:28:38.000 How about Henry VIII?

00:28:39.000 Henry VIII?

00:28:40.000 Look.

00:28:41.000 Terrible guy.

00:28:42.000 Is that because you're Catholic and he set up the Church of England?

00:28:45.000 Yes.

00:28:46.000 He set up the Church in England.

00:28:48.000 Elizabeth sets up the Church of England.

00:28:51.000 Really?

00:28:52.000 I believe I'm getting that right.

00:28:53.000 I'm being scowled at by a producer.

00:28:55.000 Why are you looking at that?

00:28:56.000 Check it out.

00:28:57.000 Check it out.

00:28:58.000 Because he's got a laptop.

00:29:02.000 I think I'm right.

00:29:04.000 I'm pretty sure that Henry established the Church of England.

00:29:07.000 He was the first head of the Church of England.

00:29:10.000 He maintains that they're still part of the Catholic Church, but that he happens to be the head of that church, specifically in England.

00:29:20.000 He doesn't break with them on doctrinal points, and I think he acknowledges papal supremacy in the rest of the Church.

00:29:29.000 Possibly.

00:29:30.000 I mean, do you know the Blake poem, the song Jerusalem?

00:29:33.000 Yes, of course.

00:29:34.000 And did those feet in ancient time.

00:29:36.000 This is the conspiracy that Christ in his youth goes to Britain and establishes the Church there before he establishes it in Jerusalem and nearby Rome.

00:29:45.000 And thus, there is some sort of weird clandestine British supremacy that he can lay claim to.

00:29:52.000 That does sound very like some of these American religions who believe that Jesus...

00:29:56.000 You guys fit started it.

00:29:57.000 Once again, they're just aping the British cultural trend.

00:30:01.000 I believe...

00:30:02.000 I think I'm getting all of that right.

00:30:03.000 No, this isn't true, right?

00:30:04.000 This is the thing...

00:30:05.000 I think this is all true.

00:30:06.000 No, no, not that bit.

00:30:07.000 Go on, Billy.

00:30:08.000 In 153408, he'll tell himself to bring your head.

00:30:13.000 Thank you so much.

00:30:14.000 Where are you reading that?

00:30:15.000 Fact check.

00:30:16.000 Where are you reading that?

00:30:18.000 Get that on Wikipedia and do a little deeper dive.

00:30:21.000 I'm not accepting your chat GPT take on this.

00:30:24.000 Fact check failed.

00:30:25.000 Yeah.

00:30:26.000 No, I'm right.

00:30:27.000 No, you can't just say that.

00:30:28.000 That is so American.

00:30:29.000 This is the problem with the modern world, right here.

00:30:31.000 Right here.

00:30:32.000 I'll be vindicated by history.

00:30:33.000 No, this isn't American.

00:30:35.000 You present them with facts about their crazy little conspiracy theory

00:30:39.000 and their rebuttal to you is...

00:30:40.000 I've turned my phone off to be polite.

00:30:42.000 I can't look it up.

00:30:43.000 No, I'm right.

00:30:44.000 No, I'm right.

00:30:45.000 I think I'm right.

00:30:46.000 This is the modern world.

00:30:47.000 I know you.

00:30:48.000 You clearly do.

00:30:49.000 I think I'm right.

00:30:50.000 It doesn't matter how many times you say it.

00:30:52.000 The people will decide.

00:30:54.000 But see...

00:30:55.000 May history judge me.

00:30:56.000 History?

00:30:57.000 We are judging you right now.

00:30:58.000 We are history.

00:30:59.000 We sit here in judgment.

00:31:01.000 I think I'm right.

00:31:02.000 There's four people in this room that don't agree with you.

00:31:04.000 Well, you're all British.

00:31:05.000 You all have...

00:31:06.000 You're all invested in this Church of England.

00:31:09.000 No, no.

00:31:10.000 No one is not invested in the Church of England.

00:31:13.000 I don't think anyone...

00:31:14.000 Your monarch is the head of the religion.

00:31:15.000 Surely it's still...

00:31:16.000 You can be executed for not being...

00:31:18.000 I don't think there's anything you can do in Britain to get executed.

00:31:22.000 I don't want to talk about it too much.

00:31:23.000 I want to leave that to the end.

00:31:24.000 But, boy, do you not think the Church of England collapsing is the big problem ultimately facing your country?

00:31:32.000 You were run on a state religion.

00:31:34.000 You had a...

00:31:35.000 You had a real thing going for yourselves.

00:31:38.000 Mmm.

00:31:39.000 Do you know what?

00:31:40.000 Genuinely, that is a major part.

00:31:42.000 The fact that we don't have a religion which leaves a vacuum at the heart of culture.

00:31:46.000 Yeah.

00:31:47.000 Which therefore means that there's nothing that we all agree on.

00:31:51.000 Whereas here, they do have the Constitution.

00:31:53.000 And there is like a...

00:31:55.000 There is like a weird love of the Constitution here that I've never encountered anywhere else.

00:32:01.000 Like the Founding Fathers are sort of saints.

00:32:04.000 You don't go against the Founding Fathers.

00:32:07.000 The Constitution is a beautiful document.

00:32:08.000 It must be respected.

00:32:09.000 It can't just be removed.

00:32:11.000 I mean, you guys don't even have it.

00:32:13.000 No.

00:32:14.000 We have an unwritten Constitution.

00:32:15.000 An unwritten Constitution.

00:32:16.000 Which is not a Constitution.

00:32:17.000 And we've got one but it's very boring.

00:32:18.000 It's just a...

00:32:19.000 You know, how much does the Governor General get paid per year?

00:32:22.000 There's not a lot of rights enclosed in the Australian Constitution.

00:32:25.000 Except by like the penumbra of...

00:32:28.000 Well, they have a freedom of religion so freedom of speech is implied.

00:32:33.000 Do you want a freedom of speech in the UK?

00:32:35.000 Yeah.

00:32:36.000 Do you want that enshrined by law or do you want that as a norm?

00:32:40.000 Everything is always better as a norm.

00:32:42.000 Yes.

00:32:43.000 Because...

00:32:44.000 They would disagree here.

00:32:46.000 Yeah.

00:32:47.000 The problem is though that I think as an...

00:32:52.000 Having things as a norm is much better.

00:32:55.000 Sure.

00:32:56.000 But the question is, is that sustainable?

00:32:58.000 Because norms are subject to change and laws aren't.

00:33:00.000 Right?

00:33:01.000 Yeah.

00:33:02.000 But it's much better...

00:33:03.000 Like my view is it's much better to have a society where no one kills each other

00:33:06.000 than having a law against murder.

00:33:07.000 Do you know what I mean?

00:33:08.000 Yes.

00:33:09.000 And to the extent that you can achieve that, that's better.

00:33:13.000 But you've lost the norm of free speech in the UK.

00:33:15.000 Correct.

00:33:16.000 Yes.

00:33:17.000 So what is the...

00:33:18.000 I mean how would you get that back?

00:33:20.000 Don't know.

00:33:21.000 I think the only way is via the law.

00:33:23.000 I think the only way is to enshrine it in law and then to have it tested in the court of law.

00:33:29.000 Yeah.

00:33:30.000 Or maybe we could stop teaching three-year-olds that if someone said something that hurt their

00:33:33.000 feelings, that's a violation of the...

00:33:36.000 You know.

00:33:37.000 Losing the schools is big.

00:33:38.000 Right.

00:33:39.000 Yeah.

00:33:40.000 That's where all of this shit comes from.

00:33:41.000 And there have been attempts to sort of wrestle that.

00:33:43.000 But like Toby Young spent the last 15 or whatever years trying to take over.

00:33:47.000 He was trying to start up charter schools.

00:33:49.000 Is this correct?

00:33:50.000 And this was...

00:33:51.000 How do you know so much about the UK?

00:33:52.000 It's weird.

00:33:53.000 It's on the internet.

00:33:54.000 I spoke to a lot of people when I was there trying to figure out...

00:33:57.000 Also, I liked the Toby Young book.

00:33:58.000 He used to have the funniest articles in The Spectator every time.

00:34:02.000 So, I looked into what he was doing and then it seems like...

00:34:05.000 I mean, the right was not really interested in holding on to the institutions anywhere

00:34:10.000 for the last 100 years.

00:34:12.000 We just let the universities go.

00:34:15.000 We let the schools go.

00:34:16.000 We let the church go.

00:34:18.000 And maybe that's pivoting back now, but I don't...

00:34:21.000 I mean, in America, boy, the right is trying to march through the institutions in a big way.

00:34:26.000 But is that...

00:34:27.000 Is it working?

00:34:29.000 I don't know.

00:34:31.000 Certainly, it's making a lot of people very unhappy.

00:34:34.000 And there's big protests and the New York Times is going livid.

00:34:38.000 But that's what that whole project 2025 thing is, is let's stack...

00:34:42.000 They call it the deep state, but you just have the civil service.

00:34:44.000 There's a much nicer, cheerier name for it.

00:34:47.000 But there's...

00:34:48.000 Is there any sense that...

00:34:49.000 I mean, this...

00:34:50.000 All right, this is weird, because reform is probably going to win this next election.

00:34:53.000 We spoke about this briefly.

00:34:54.000 If nothing changes.

00:34:55.000 Which it will.

00:34:56.000 If the election's held today and they don't change, you know,

00:34:58.000 if they don't get preferential voting instead of first-past-the-post,

00:35:01.000 and all these things.

00:35:02.000 All right, then you have three, four hundred reform guys in Parliament.

00:35:07.000 The whole civil service is still...

00:35:09.000 Whatever that Oxbridge, BBC, Guardian Reading, whatever that thing is.

00:35:15.000 The blob.

00:35:16.000 The blob.

00:35:17.000 You call it the blob?

00:35:18.000 Yeah.

00:35:19.000 The blob.

00:35:20.000 But how do you...

00:35:21.000 Is there any...

00:35:22.000 How would you change the blob?

00:35:23.000 That's the real fight, isn't it?

00:35:24.000 That is the real fight, because it needs what is called root and branch reform.

00:35:28.000 Yeah.

00:35:29.000 Because you can't implement policies.

00:35:31.000 Because what the minister does is the minister of, let's say, of health presents it to the civil servants.

00:35:36.000 But if the civil servants don't want to enact the policy...

00:35:39.000 Yeah.

00:35:40.000 ...then the strategies they use is they don't refuse to do it.

00:35:43.000 They just make it really difficult, make it slow, tedious, arduous.

00:35:46.000 So by the time it gets through, instead of taking weeks or a month, it will take months, if not years.

00:35:52.000 This is yes, minister, and yes, prime minister.

00:35:54.000 Correct.

00:35:55.000 Which is a great...

00:35:56.000 You, as a country, you're very comfortable with...

00:35:59.000 You had a sitcom explaining that that's how it worked.

00:36:01.000 And then Americans, they go, there's a deep state, and people freak out and go, no, there's not.

00:36:05.000 And it's like, well, of course there's people running the government who have jobs, who aren't just elected,

00:36:10.000 who are there before and after.

00:36:12.000 But the right...

00:36:13.000 I mean, Thatcher sort of steps out of wanting to even attempt to remedy that.

00:36:18.000 They just go, we'll make government smaller.

00:36:20.000 We'll give government less to do.

00:36:21.000 We won't try and keep government as it is, but put our people in there instead of the other

00:36:27.000 party's people.

00:36:28.000 But is there any...

00:36:29.000 I mean, if people thought, is Nigel Farage trying to do that?

00:36:32.000 Yeah.

00:36:33.000 Yeah, no.

00:36:34.000 Part of what they want to do is cut the number of civil servants, get rid of all the ones that

00:36:38.000 are ideologically possessed, so to speak, et cetera.

00:36:41.000 But the actual biggest challenge for reform, you talk about 300, 400 guys in parliament,

00:36:46.000 is where do you find 300 to 400 people?

00:36:49.000 Who are good people, who are conscientious people, who don't have a scandal rating?

00:36:53.000 There's no way.

00:36:54.000 Well, that's part of it.

00:36:55.000 But you also then have to be charismatic, because this is the difference between the

00:36:59.000 US and the UK.

00:37:00.000 President Trump needed like 10 people to be the face of his team.

00:37:07.000 And he could pick them.

00:37:08.000 He can pick his cabinet from the general population.

00:37:11.000 But no, but I mean, even prior to forming the government, to get reelected, what he needed

00:37:18.000 was him, Tulsi Gabbard, RFK Jr., Elon at the time, JD Vance, right?

00:37:24.000 I probably missed him.

00:37:25.000 Vivek was also involved.

00:37:26.000 You had these like six, seven people.

00:37:28.000 And that's what you needed to win.

00:37:30.000 Then you get into government.

00:37:31.000 You can appoint whoever you want.

00:37:33.000 Yeah.

00:37:34.000 What Nigel Farage has to do is have three to 400 people who are actually capable of getting

00:37:40.000 elected in their own right under the reform umbrella.

00:37:45.000 Yeah.

00:37:46.000 And that, and finding three to 400 people who can do that.

00:37:49.000 Yeah.

00:37:50.000 That's the real challenge.

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00:40:01.000 There's not an easy pipeline in Britain, I wouldn't think.

00:40:05.000 Well, so you're going to get, you know.

00:40:07.000 They've got a lot of like puritanical small colleges here.

00:40:09.000 They've got a lot of, it's a big country.

00:40:11.000 They've got, they've got a whole, I don't want to say right wing, but they've got a right wing,

00:40:15.000 but they've got a right wing infrastructure of academia and journalism that is not,

00:40:20.000 you have an aristocracy, you have the Tories, but they don't seem to be a part of this reform thing.

00:40:26.000 You seem to have sidestepped them.

00:40:27.000 Yeah.

00:40:28.000 Yeah.

00:40:29.000 Isn't that sad?

00:40:30.000 No, because, no, the Conservative Party isn't really kind of fit for purpose if we're being honest,

00:40:34.000 because the problem is, exactly, he has an allergic reaction to them.

00:40:38.000 But it's 14 years that they were in power and they did, you know, they did nothing.

00:40:43.000 In fact, they just made the problems worse.

00:40:46.000 And in the words of Kemi Badenoch, the current leader, who was in government at the time,

00:40:52.000 we talked right and governed left, which basically admits that they gaslit a nation,

00:40:56.000 particularly when it comes to immigration.

00:40:58.000 I mean, yeah, the immigration thing is, it's a big issue.

00:41:07.000 You could say that.

00:41:09.000 But I don't understand.

00:41:10.000 Well, I didn't want to talk about Enoch Powell.

00:41:14.000 There was a Rest His History podcast about him recently.

00:41:16.000 They've done Enoch Powell.

00:41:18.000 And what they don't acknowledge is that the things that he, they do very briefly,

00:41:22.000 they acknowledge that a lot of what he said has come to pass.

00:41:26.000 I'm not an Enoch Powell supporter.

00:41:28.000 I've got to say that.

00:41:30.000 He was gay.

00:41:31.000 You guys didn't want to believe that Enoch Powell was gay.

00:41:34.000 But I'm telling you, if you look that up.

00:41:36.000 Okay, Billy, look that up.

00:41:38.000 What do you mean Enoch Powell was gay?

00:41:40.000 I mean, he was a gay man who did gay things.

00:41:43.000 He was married to a woman his entire life.

00:41:45.000 Of course.

00:41:46.000 No married man could participate in homosex.

00:41:52.000 That's not the problem.

00:41:53.000 That's not the problem with Enoch Powell.

00:41:54.000 People have a right to be attracted to people of the same sex.

00:41:58.000 But the crux of that speech that is the rivers of blood speech seems to be,

00:42:04.000 he's worried about the native population of Britain's response to the immigration.

00:42:08.000 And that does seem to be taking place.

00:42:10.000 There is like, there is a, there looks like from outside,

00:42:13.000 there's a groundswell of anti-immigrant feeling.

00:42:15.000 There is.

00:42:16.000 Well, that's rough.

00:42:18.000 But I don't, I don't think it's fair to say that that's what Enoch Powell was worried about.

00:42:22.000 He was worried about the way that, at least I understand it,

00:42:26.000 the fact that the native population would be put in a position of relative weakness

00:42:32.000 in, you know, in relation to immigrants.

00:42:35.000 He, so there's the, that expression that the, whatever,

00:42:40.000 the black man will have the whip hand over.

00:42:42.000 Yeah.

00:42:43.000 But he, I think when he closes in that speech,

00:42:46.000 he's saying the thing to be worried about is the response of white Britons,

00:42:52.000 uh, as they have that feeling, not that it'll take place.

00:42:56.000 I think he's, he's doing an odd, he's, there's more nuance in that speech than I think.

00:43:02.000 I'm not convinced about it.

00:43:03.000 Francis, when you said, when you said to me, let's get James McCann the comedian,

00:43:07.000 I think he'd be great.

00:43:08.000 I did not think we'd be talking about Enoch Powell being gay.

00:43:11.000 Was Enoch Powell being gay?

00:43:12.000 Was Enoch Powell being gay?

00:43:13.000 Oh, we've gone quiet over Enoch Powell being gay, have we?

00:43:16.000 He had many what?

00:43:29.000 He, so he, so just from you, the people won't be able to hear that.

00:43:32.000 Allegedly one of his tutors said that he had a homosexual affair.

00:43:35.000 Yes.

00:43:36.000 But then someone else said he just hadn't met any girls yet,

00:43:39.000 which is always the excuse really, isn't it?

00:43:41.000 Yeah.

00:43:42.000 I mean, gay guys do meet a lot of girls.

00:43:46.000 And also as well.

00:43:47.000 Why is his gayness so otherwise relevant?

00:43:49.000 Because I think that's why you guys hate him,

00:43:51.000 because you're such a homophobic country,

00:43:52.000 and you won't listen to the nuance of what he was saying in that speech

00:43:55.000 because of his homosexuality.

00:43:57.000 And I think that's wrong, and you should be more open.

00:43:59.000 Well, you're a Catholic, you should think that's right.

00:44:01.000 We, I don't know if you know this, there's a lot of gay guys in the Catholic.

00:44:04.000 I love gay people.

00:44:07.000 Big fan.

00:44:08.000 Big fan.

00:44:09.000 Obviously the gay stuff has to stop.

00:44:11.000 But as people, some of the best.

00:44:13.000 Some of the best.

00:44:14.000 So back to Enoch, so you think...

00:44:27.000 That's exactly what I didn't...

00:44:28.000 You know what?

00:44:29.000 There's people watching it going, I knew this.

00:44:31.000 I finally, finally, they're talking about Enoch Powell.

00:44:34.000 Well, you guys, you weren't able to have a coherent conversation about immigration.

00:44:37.000 Hmm.

00:44:38.000 For ages.

00:44:39.000 Yeah.

00:44:40.000 Like, I mean, all of Europe has done this, and then they seem to be overreacting.

00:44:43.000 I don't like the alternative for Deutschland.

00:44:45.000 Hmm.

00:44:46.000 No, I mean, that doesn't seem nice.

00:44:47.000 I would like a nice centre-right government who can have a normal amount of immigration

00:44:54.000 so that people don't get really angry and...

00:44:56.000 But this is the problem, right?

00:44:57.000 Because in Britain, we had a nice centre-right government, which was the Tories, who governed

00:45:03.000 like they were completely left-wing, who left the borders open, who allowed illegal immigration

00:45:09.000 on a scale...

00:45:10.000 I mean, the scale of it, I don't know if you heard me say this, but the year I came to Britain,

00:45:16.000 which is 95, 96, depending on when you start counting, 55,000 people a year came to the

00:45:26.000 UK legally.

00:45:27.000 Yeah.

00:45:28.000 Applied for a visa, came with a passport, blah, blah, blah.

00:45:31.000 That's the number of people who come to Britain illegally right now, every year.

00:45:34.000 Yes.

00:45:35.000 That's the scale.

00:45:36.000 And the legal number is...

00:45:37.000 And the legal number is...

00:45:38.000 So more people came to Britain legally in the last 20 years than the entire history of

00:45:43.000 Britain.

00:45:44.000 More people in 20 years than in 2000 years.

00:45:46.000 Isn't that an important part of your culture, to be swamped by people who weren't born there

00:45:50.000 and then slowly integrate them?

00:45:51.000 No.

00:45:52.000 You had the Normans.

00:45:53.000 The Vikings didn't immigrate to Britain.

00:45:54.000 You had the Anglo-Saxons.

00:45:55.000 You had the Romans.

00:45:56.000 No.

00:45:57.000 No, no.

00:45:58.000 This is all complete bollocks.

00:45:59.000 These are all violent waves.

00:46:00.000 Of course.

00:46:01.000 Well, this is the nicest...

00:46:02.000 These were violent invaders.

00:46:03.000 This is the nicest invasion you've ever had.

00:46:05.000 I mean, as far as the invasions of Britain go, this one is pretty smooth.

00:46:10.000 If you view it as immigration, terrible failure.

00:46:15.000 If you think of it as an invasion, it's really nice.

00:46:18.000 It's pretty decent.

00:46:19.000 Yeah.

00:46:20.000 People before has an invasion had so much back and forth and meal sharing and beautiful

00:46:25.000 films made about it.

00:46:26.000 Sexual assault levels are not what you'd expect from a Viking court.

00:46:29.000 Again, grooming gangs, so bad.

00:46:31.000 But if that's the extent of the rape that's happening across from a wave of invasion, I

00:46:36.000 mean, the people of Germany, when the Soviets were coming in, they would have dreamed for levels

00:46:41.000 of rape like that.

00:46:42.000 Yeah.

00:46:43.000 Yeah.

00:46:44.000 I mean, also, when the Soviets came over, the Germans didn't give them benefits and stays

00:46:49.000 in full-star hotels.

00:46:50.000 You might have to get rid of all the benefits.

00:46:53.000 Yeah.

00:46:54.000 We might.

00:46:55.000 That's sad.

00:46:56.000 Well, you know, it is and it isn't because I've always said this as an immigrant myself.

00:47:01.000 I don't really understand why people who are not citizens of the country would receive

00:47:07.000 access to the benefits.

00:47:08.000 Well, it's sad to watch someone die of an illness that you could fix.

00:47:13.000 Sure.

00:47:14.000 Mm-hmm.

00:47:15.000 I would exclude healthcare from that personally, but what I'm saying is, if you can't sustain

00:47:20.000 yourself in the country to which you've immigrated, then you should go to your country.

00:47:25.000 Country where you can.

00:47:26.000 Yeah.

00:47:27.000 Or you should go to your country.

00:47:29.000 I mean, in Australia, this is never the conversation is about benefits and immigrants and things,

00:47:35.000 because we have rich immigrants.

00:47:37.000 That's the...

00:47:38.000 We're facing a...

00:47:39.000 I don't know of a country in the Northern Hemisphere that's having this, but it's quite

00:47:43.000 difficult to get to Australia if you're poor.

00:47:45.000 I mean, there's a big sea and there's a lot of policemen in the sea.

00:47:49.000 But we've got very wealthy people from India and China coming and they can support themselves,

00:47:56.000 but they also take, you know, housing.

00:47:59.000 The housing market is flooded with new arrivals.

00:48:01.000 We've got hundreds of thousands of people showing up and we can't build houses quick

00:48:04.000 enough.

00:48:05.000 And there's still the unease, even though there's not the benefit conversation.

00:48:09.000 There's still a sense of displacement.

00:48:11.000 And I think Australia is getting pretty rowdy.

00:48:14.000 I haven't been there for it, but it looks like they're not happy.

00:48:18.000 You know what I always found interesting about Australia is that on the one hand, you've

00:48:21.000 got this macho sporting culture, like, you know, the bloke, the Aussie bloke.

00:48:27.000 It's all about it.

00:48:28.000 You represent perfectly.

00:48:29.000 Absolutely.

00:48:30.000 Look at you.

00:48:31.000 You're a big hunk of man, James.

00:48:32.000 But you've also, you went pretty woke and a bit.

00:48:37.000 Doo-doo.

00:48:38.000 Yeah.

00:48:39.000 No, Ben, this is Kangaroo, D.H. Lawrence.

00:48:42.000 He picks this as a problem almost a hundred years ago, I think.

00:48:46.000 Really?

00:48:47.000 Yeah.

00:48:48.000 We've always been.

00:48:49.000 It's an urban place.

00:48:50.000 It's a cosmopolitan society.

00:48:52.000 We've got five cities.

00:48:53.000 No one lives in the middle.

00:48:54.000 Some people live in the middle.

00:48:55.000 They're great people.

00:48:56.000 I love and respect them.

00:48:57.000 But as a percentage, it's like 80% urban.

00:49:01.000 So, and it's all suburbs that go on forever.

00:49:03.000 So, you're going to get, I don't want to be, again, deterministic about this, but that

00:49:09.000 breeds a certain kind of, you know, success looks more effeminate when you don't have land

00:49:15.000 and farming and all the things I don't want to do.

00:49:19.000 Can we have countries there?

00:49:21.000 I mean, isn't the, isn't what's going to be required to stop these immigration problems

00:49:26.000 so beastly that it's, is it worth it?

00:49:29.000 This is sort of camp of the saints type territory.

00:49:32.000 But, you know, I mean, we're talking, I mean, in Europe, they're talking about putting people

00:49:37.000 on trains and shipping them out.

00:49:39.000 And in this country, they're rounding people, they're stopping you on the street and they're

00:49:42.000 bundling you into a van and you have to go over there.

00:49:44.000 And this is, this is not an easy watch.

00:49:47.000 Hmm.

00:49:48.000 No one likes, no one is a big fan of what actually getting on top of immigration looks

00:49:54.000 like in the airplane age.

00:49:56.000 Yeah.

00:49:57.000 I don't know about no one, but I get your point, which is a small number of, yeah.

00:50:01.000 No, I, I don't know if it's a small number.

00:50:03.000 The way I, what I see from the American right is there are a lot of people that are not only

00:50:08.000 comfortable, but are like delighted.

00:50:10.000 Right.

00:50:11.000 Which is fair enough.

00:50:12.000 If your country has been invaded, as you described it with millions of people, I understand why

00:50:17.000 people in that moment start to prioritize solving the problem more than their compassion.

00:50:22.000 Yeah.

00:50:23.000 And that will happen naturally when, when that's the situation.

00:50:26.000 But your point, I think broadly is correct, which is the bulk of the general public believe

00:50:32.000 in a border, but also don't want to see the things that are now happening for that border

00:50:37.000 to exist.

00:50:38.000 Yeah.

00:50:39.000 It's very.

00:50:40.000 Which is why it's better to have a border in the first place.

00:50:42.000 Yes.

00:50:43.000 Is what I would argue.

00:50:44.000 Yeah.

00:50:45.000 But I will say, I mean, I, I'm, I'm meeting many, I don't know, right wing luminaries in

00:50:48.000 America in conversation.

00:50:49.000 I don't see anybody comfortable with, you know, kids being split up or people bundled into

00:50:54.000 vans or whatever.

00:50:55.000 On the internet, I see, I felt this about the Charlie Kirk thing, where there are all

00:50:59.000 these people online going, it's good.

00:51:01.000 We love killing our enemies.

00:51:03.000 I didn't meet anyone who actually felt that way.

00:51:06.000 I see people do it, you know, on their Twitter account do it.

00:51:08.000 And that gets very magnified.

00:51:10.000 But to what extent are these people actually existing in the world as.

00:51:13.000 I totally take your point.

00:51:14.000 But then counter, counter argument would be, I remember a hell of a lot of people that I

00:51:19.000 was friends with.

00:51:20.000 Yeah.

00:51:21.000 Uh, in 2015 going, I don't know anyone who voted Brexit.

00:51:24.000 Yeah.

00:51:25.000 You know, the following year.

00:51:26.000 And I'm going, well, that's not necessarily a reflection of what the sentiment is.

00:51:31.000 It might be a reflection of who you speak to.

00:51:33.000 Yeah.

00:51:34.000 You see what I'm saying?

00:51:35.000 I do.

00:51:36.000 Um, and the, I mean, the evidence is that there are increasing numbers of people on both

00:51:42.000 left and right in this country and in others that think political violence is justified.

00:51:48.000 Yeah.

00:51:49.000 I mean, they've always felt that in America.

00:51:52.000 Yeah.

00:51:53.000 Like you guys, the Brits, they really, you guys were taxing tea and they started killing

00:52:00.000 you.

00:52:01.000 Saying you can't be here anymore.

00:52:03.000 We're running it ourselves.

00:52:04.000 And then America, they always got, we don't like political violence, but all their greatest

00:52:08.000 treasured historic memories are active.

00:52:10.000 The civil war is an act of political violence.

00:52:13.000 Yeah.

00:52:14.000 And how many presidents have been assassinated or shot?

00:52:16.000 Four to six.

00:52:17.000 I don't know.

00:52:18.000 Two of them might've been poisoned.

00:52:20.000 Four were killed definitely, but six maybe.

00:52:24.000 Oh, I thought you said 46.

00:52:25.000 I was like, is this like when he said Enoch Powell was gay?

00:52:31.000 He was gay.

00:52:32.000 Two were poisoned.

00:52:33.000 Maybe.

00:52:34.000 Who?

00:52:35.000 I don't know.

00:52:36.000 JFK definitely wasn't poisoned.

00:52:37.000 Unless it was very mildly sometime before.

00:52:38.000 Right.

00:52:39.000 But I think there's two suspected poisonings.

00:52:42.000 The thing is, is not only is America violent politically, America is just a very violent

00:52:47.000 society.

00:52:48.000 Like you look at the movies, like you, for instance, look at, there's some great Aussie movies,

00:52:52.000 by the way.

00:52:53.000 Right.

00:52:54.000 They're not.

00:52:55.000 Like three.

00:52:56.000 Yeah.

00:52:57.000 I was going to say.

00:52:58.000 Yeah.

00:52:59.000 Lantana.

00:53:00.000 Yeah.

00:53:01.000 Yeah.

00:53:02.000 Yeah.

00:53:03.000 Yeah.

00:53:04.000 Yeah.

00:53:05.000 Yeah.

00:53:06.000 Yeah.

00:53:07.000 Yeah.

00:53:08.000 Yeah.

00:53:09.000 Yeah.

00:53:10.000 Yeah.

00:53:11.000 Lantana.

00:53:12.000 Which one?

00:53:13.000 Lantana.

00:53:14.000 I haven't seen Lantana.

00:53:15.000 Well, Peter Weir.

00:53:16.000 He did a couple of great ones.

00:53:18.000 The Aussie director, Peter Weir.

00:53:19.000 Mad Max 2.

00:53:20.000 Yeah.

00:53:21.000 Great movie.

00:53:22.000 But they're not violent.

00:53:23.000 Really.

00:53:24.000 Mad Max 2 is kind of violent.

00:53:25.000 Yeah.

00:53:26.000 No, but that's in America.

00:53:27.000 I was also going to say Chopper, but that totally undermines.

00:53:28.000 It's very violent.

00:53:29.000 Yeah.

00:53:30.000 Undermines the argument.

00:53:31.000 Carry on, man.

00:53:32.000 The whole exploitation movie.

00:53:33.000 We've destroyed the premise of your argument, but go ahead and make it.

00:53:36.000 Yeah.

00:53:37.000 I'll accept it.

00:53:38.000 Okay.

00:53:39.000 But American movies are highly violent.

00:53:41.000 Yeah.

00:53:42.000 They're some of the most violent.

00:53:43.000 It's just every movie, American movie, seems to have violence running through it.

00:53:48.000 This is a very violent society.

00:53:49.000 Yes.

00:53:50.000 So the murder rate, the homicide rate is here is five times what it is in Britain.

00:53:54.000 In places, yeah.

00:53:56.000 If you look closer at those numbers in some places, that number's very low here.

00:54:02.000 I don't want to go into it.

00:54:05.000 Why have you clammed up about that?

00:54:09.000 What he's saying is rates of violence are higher in certain areas than in others.

00:54:13.000 Yeah.

00:54:14.000 In the Hamptons, there's not a big murder rate.

00:54:16.000 Right.

00:54:17.000 Right.

00:54:18.000 In certain parts of St. Louis, boy, watch out.

00:54:20.000 So you don't want to talk about this, but you besmirched a good name of Enoch Powell.

00:54:24.000 Your words, not mine.

00:54:25.000 I think Enoch Powell had a lot of problems.

00:54:29.000 I didn't know I was coming on the Philo Enoch podcast.

00:54:34.000 You're the one that's championing him.

00:54:36.000 Yeah.

00:54:37.000 I said he was gay and wrong.

00:54:39.000 And gay and nuanced, I think.

00:54:40.000 He was nuanced.

00:54:41.000 He was nuanced.

00:54:43.000 And gay.

00:54:45.000 As many of the great, I mean, they know about style.

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00:56:10.000 I wonder, there will be a lot of people who are like, who are not fans of ours because they are fans of Enoch, who are watching this going, I love this guy.

00:56:17.000 He agrees.

00:56:18.000 Gay?

00:56:19.000 Gay?

00:56:20.000 I think we should be more open to some of the gay people in our lives.

00:56:22.000 Next thing you're going to say, he was non-binary.

00:56:24.000 Not to the, again, the sex practices, no one should be masturbating, no one should be having sex outside of marriage.

00:56:29.000 Why are you looking at our crew?

00:56:31.000 I want them to back me up.

00:56:33.000 He did have long hair.

00:56:34.000 What do you mean he had long hair?

00:56:36.000 He purposefully had long hair.

00:56:38.000 He wanted to be like the Spartan.

00:56:40.000 It doesn't make him gay.

00:56:41.000 I mean, it's a step closer.

00:56:44.000 Spartans?

00:56:45.000 Yeah.

00:56:46.000 I mean, they were practicing intercural lovemaking.

00:56:48.000 Yeah.

00:56:49.000 What is intercural lovemaking?

00:56:50.000 Bumming each other.

00:56:51.000 No.

00:56:52.000 No?

00:56:53.000 The legs.

00:56:54.000 The what?

00:56:55.000 It was shameful to have sex in the bottom, so they would have sex with the legs.

00:56:58.000 You would push the legs together of the young men.

00:57:01.000 Only a Catholic would know about this.

00:57:03.000 You don't know about intercural lovemaking?

00:57:04.000 No.

00:57:06.000 There is nobody I've ever met who knows about intercural lovemaking.

00:57:09.000 Yes, there are.

00:57:10.000 They've been keeping it quiet around you.

00:57:12.000 They've been looking at your thick, beautiful legs.

00:57:15.000 And they've gone, I don't give the game away.

00:57:17.000 Intercural lovemaking?

00:57:19.000 I hope I'm saying that right.

00:57:21.000 It's the only one that I think I might have got wrong.

00:57:23.000 Church in England, for sure.

00:57:26.000 But it's so intercural lovemaking.

00:57:28.000 Quite an intercural lovemaking in the Church of England nowadays, let me tell you.

00:57:31.000 Really?

00:57:32.000 No, I'm joking.

00:57:33.000 So, you're in Austin?

00:57:36.000 No, that's not going to work.

00:57:39.000 No, I'm in Austin.

00:57:41.000 I'm in Austin.

00:57:42.000 He is in Austin.

00:57:43.000 You're going to need a better transition wherever you're going.

00:57:45.000 I like that.

00:57:46.000 I like that.

00:57:47.000 I didn't know where I was to go.

00:57:48.000 This is like Theo Vaughn.

00:57:49.000 Remember the first time we interviewed Theo Vaughn?

00:57:51.000 Yeah.

00:57:52.000 We just finished our first ever Rogan episode.

00:57:54.000 We, on that episode, we were kind of like, we were kind of excited to be there.

00:57:59.000 Yeah.

00:58:00.000 So, we're like...

00:58:01.000 So, Joe was like, oh, do you guys smoke weed?

00:58:03.000 Gave us a joint.

00:58:05.000 And so that we'd chill out a little bit.

00:58:07.000 Yeah.

00:58:08.000 And then we went home and interviewed Theo Vaughn, completely stoned off our heads.

00:58:13.000 And then did a bit of intercural lovemaking.

00:58:15.000 No.

00:58:16.000 He wouldn't go for that funny business.

00:58:17.000 No.

00:58:18.000 That's why he's got the mullet.

00:58:19.000 Yeah.

00:58:20.000 Lady on the back, fella on the front.

00:58:22.000 Take your pick with the legs.

00:58:23.000 Business up front, party out back.

00:58:25.000 But anyway, it was a pretty crazy interview.

00:58:27.000 And, um, crowned by him saying, uh, you guys have, we call it autism, which is one of the

00:58:35.000 most viral clips of trigonometry ever.

00:58:37.000 To this day, we get people coming up to us saying that.

00:58:39.000 You guys have, we call it autism.

00:58:42.000 You guys have autism?

00:58:44.000 This has got the same feeling, this episode.

00:58:46.000 I don't think I have autism.

00:58:48.000 I don't think you guys have autism either.

00:58:49.000 No, I'm not saying you have autism.

00:58:50.000 No.

00:58:51.000 I'm saying you're like Theo Vaughn.

00:58:52.000 I mean, you've got something.

00:58:53.000 I think I'm just on my, do you think the spike in low level autism is something to

00:58:59.000 do with the fact we're all on a phone now for four hours a day?

00:59:02.000 I think ADHD definitely.

00:59:04.000 Yeah.

00:59:05.000 Because if you think about what a mobile phone is, it's a permanent distraction tool.

00:59:08.000 Yes.

00:59:09.000 This is weird.

00:59:10.000 So it would therefore make sense that your ability to concentrate is severely diminished

00:59:15.000 with one of them in your pocket.

00:59:16.000 Yes.

00:59:17.000 So we've got to get rid, that's why I got the small phone.

00:59:19.000 To help me wean off being on a phone.

00:59:21.000 Yeah.

00:59:22.000 To be on it.

00:59:23.000 Does the size of the phone make a difference?

00:59:25.000 I mean, not really.

00:59:26.000 I got a black and white one that just didn't work very well.

00:59:29.000 It had like a Kindle screen and a, you know, it just, you do need a phone to function.

00:59:35.000 Right.

00:59:36.000 This is, do you know Ivan Illich?

00:59:39.000 Yes.

00:59:40.000 Story.

00:59:41.000 He wrote Tools for Conviviality.

00:59:43.000 No, ah, yes.

00:59:44.000 So same name as the Tolstoy.

00:59:46.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:59:47.000 Story.

00:59:48.000 But it's also a, also a writer who writes about, he's dead now, but he wrote about technology

00:59:54.000 and that a tool can be good in the first phase.

00:59:57.000 You know, you get the car and that's great.

01:00:00.000 Um, and then you build a society for the car and that's dreadful because we're all in traffic

01:00:04.000 and we've changed the way that everybody lives.

01:00:06.000 So the tool can get out of control.

01:00:08.000 New Polity, shout out.

01:00:09.000 Mark Barnes, he introduced me to this idea and they've got a great magazine on it.

01:00:13.000 But the phone, at first the phone is great.

01:00:16.000 You can do everything with the phone.

01:00:18.000 And then we build the whole society for the phone.

01:00:20.000 You can't get from A to B without a phone.

01:00:23.000 You can't, no one has a map.

01:00:25.000 No one is able to give directions.

01:00:26.000 The signage on the freeway is dreadful if you don't have GPS now.

01:00:30.000 So how do you live without a phone?

01:00:33.000 We live in a society where it's almost impossible to live without a mobile phone.

01:00:36.000 Right.

01:00:37.000 In a way that 20 years ago it was all built different.

01:00:40.000 Yeah.

01:00:41.000 So how do you get rid of it now?

01:00:42.000 You can't.

01:00:43.000 You, right.

01:00:44.000 But we've got to have some sort, meet us halfway, phone making companies that if you want it

01:00:49.000 to not destroy your life, that should also be an option.

01:00:52.000 You should be allowed to live in a society without having a technology that's making you

01:00:56.000 a worse person, that everybody knows that.

01:00:58.000 But for them, the more you are on your phone, the better it is for them.

01:01:02.000 So that's the real issue.

01:01:03.000 Yes.

01:01:04.000 I'm open to the government stepping in, having a special government phone.

01:01:08.000 Maybe not.

01:01:09.000 Zora Mamdani for phones.

01:01:11.000 Yeah.

01:01:12.000 I don't hate him.

01:01:14.000 Why not?

01:01:15.000 He's charismatic.

01:01:16.000 Isn't he?

01:01:17.000 That's a terrible reason.

01:01:18.000 Isn't it?

01:01:19.000 Yeah.

01:01:20.000 I mean, Hitler was charismatic, chaps.

01:01:22.000 It's a problem that I have, that I love charismatic people.

01:01:27.000 I don't think Bill Cosby did it.

01:01:30.000 How could he?

01:01:31.000 America's dad.

01:01:32.000 I don't want to believe.

01:01:33.000 You don't want to believe?

01:01:34.000 He did it.

01:01:35.000 Yeah.

01:01:36.000 But it hurts to believe.

01:01:38.000 You don't want to, you know, Jimmy Savile.

01:01:40.000 People didn't want to believe that about Jimmy Savile.

01:01:42.000 Raised millions for spinal charities.

01:01:44.000 Gary Glitter, who I think is still at large doing terrible things, but what a songwriter.

01:01:50.000 They still play his music during the Super Bowl.

01:01:52.000 It's a great song.

01:01:53.000 Yeah.

01:01:54.000 Ringo's The School Bill.

01:01:55.000 You remember in Joker, the original?

01:01:58.000 I never watched it.

01:01:59.000 Rock and Roll Part Two, when he was dancing down the steps.

01:02:02.000 It's an iconic moment.

01:02:03.000 There was controversy that Gary Glitter made money out of that as well as a state.

01:02:06.000 Yeah.

01:02:07.000 And it's an iconic scene in modern cinematic history.

01:02:10.000 What a song.

01:02:11.000 Finally, we've reached the subject of pedophilia.

01:02:13.000 Oh, yeah.

01:02:14.000 Francis is in his element.

01:02:15.000 Yeah.

01:02:16.000 This is his favourite subject.

01:02:17.000 Who's being a...

01:02:18.000 They keep accusing...

01:02:19.000 Do you think...

01:02:20.000 Alright, the Charlie Kirk assassination did get people to stop talking about that letter

01:02:23.000 that Trump wrote to Epstein with a drawing on it?

01:02:26.000 Right.

01:02:27.000 Yeah.

01:02:28.000 The drawing is unsettling.

01:02:29.000 The boobs are not big enough.

01:02:32.000 Did you feel?

01:02:33.000 Did I feel the boobs?

01:02:35.000 When you saw the picture of the boobs?

01:02:37.000 Yeah.

01:02:38.000 Did you think, those are quite small?

01:02:40.000 That wasn't the first thing to go through my head.

01:02:44.000 Well, if they were huge boobs, he would be vindicated as just being a man who loved women.

01:02:49.000 But the boobs are very small on the drawing.

01:02:52.000 Which tells us...

01:02:55.000 It's like a child's physique.

01:02:58.000 What was going on on the island?

01:03:00.000 They were buddies.

01:03:01.000 They were hanging out.

01:03:05.000 I was hurt when the boobs were too small on the drawing.

01:03:08.000 You guys didn't get upset by that?

01:03:09.000 I'd just like to remind everybody James is a comedian.

01:03:12.000 He's not alleging that the President of the United States is in fact a pedophile.

01:03:15.000 People keep alleging it.

01:03:16.000 I mean, Elon did.

01:03:17.000 I'm not alleging it.

01:03:18.000 I'm not alleging it.

01:03:19.000 Elon tried to walk it back a little bit.

01:03:20.000 He did.

01:03:21.000 It's not the sort of thing you can walk back very easily.

01:03:24.000 No.

01:03:25.000 No, it isn't.

01:03:26.000 I would like an explanation for the small boob.

01:03:28.000 I might be worth bearing that in mind after everything you've just said.

01:03:32.000 If we ever interviewed President Trump, we'll be sure to ask him.

01:03:37.000 Make him bigger.

01:03:38.000 Dissuade the notion that...

01:03:40.000 Hey, he doesn't seem like a pedophile to me.

01:03:42.000 He doesn't act like a pedophile.

01:03:43.000 Wait, but the size of boobs is not necessarily correlated with...

01:03:46.000 That's the sort of thing he should say.

01:03:48.000 Like, I remember when I was at school, I'm not going to say her name because it's kind of embarrassing, but I was 14.

01:03:57.000 There was a 14-year-old girl at my school who had absolutely giant tits.

01:04:02.000 Yes.

01:04:03.000 Right?

01:04:04.000 So, that's not proof of anything.

01:04:07.000 I've debunked your theory.

01:04:08.000 Well, that's what the far left would be saying if the drawing had big boobs.

01:04:11.000 If the birthday card was booby.

01:04:13.000 But since it was not booby, we have to accept that there is a symbolism to a small boob, separate from the real world.

01:04:20.000 There is a visual language of a small boob and what that conveys.

01:04:24.000 James, you cling to your unsubstantiated theory.

01:04:27.000 I think I'm four for four.

01:04:29.000 No, you're not.

01:04:30.000 You're not.

01:04:31.000 You're not.

01:04:32.000 Enoch Powell wasn't gay.

01:04:33.000 Yes.

01:04:34.000 All right.

01:04:35.000 Henry VIII was the supreme leader or whatever, the ayatollah of the Church of England.

01:04:38.000 I said he was.

01:04:39.000 Yes, in the Church of England.

01:04:41.000 Yes.

01:04:42.000 No, the Church of England.

01:04:43.000 Let's look up how deep that break went and what happened under Elizabeth and whether or not there was a shift under her.

01:04:49.000 Right.

01:04:50.000 And then this whole thing with the small boobs.

01:04:51.000 They were small.

01:04:52.000 Yeah.

01:04:53.000 I'm not denying their size.

01:04:54.000 I'm not.

01:04:55.000 I'm just saying that's not evidence of Peter Phillips.

01:04:57.000 I'm saying that if I was writing a birthday card.

01:05:00.000 Well, maybe you like big boobs.

01:05:01.000 Maybe you like small boobs.

01:05:02.000 There is.

01:05:03.000 There is.

01:05:04.000 Look, some men.

01:05:05.000 Let's not pretend that's not an open political question at this point and a difficult one.

01:05:10.000 The Trump administration was in real trouble before that assassination.

01:05:14.000 I'm not saying anything out of sorts.

01:05:17.000 Every comment on all the Trump pictures on Instagram was released the Epstein files.

01:05:22.000 That's gone quiet now.

01:05:24.000 After the small boobs.

01:05:26.000 Seems like it could have gotten bigger, but it went smaller.

01:05:31.000 I just want answers.

01:05:32.000 I'm just asking questions.

01:05:34.000 Okay, Candace.

01:05:35.000 It's been great having you on the show.

01:05:37.000 I will need to see.

01:05:39.000 If Candace Owens is vindicated.

01:05:42.000 About what?

01:05:43.000 Bridget McCrone being a fella.

01:05:45.000 Yeah.

01:05:46.000 Which she probably won't be.

01:05:47.000 No.

01:05:48.000 But if she is, she's got to get the Pulitzer Prize.

01:05:51.000 Her career can now only go one of two ways.

01:05:53.000 It has to either end or she's celebrated as the greatest journalist of modern times.

01:05:57.000 Isn't that an exciting historical moment to find ourselves in?

01:06:01.000 It is.

01:06:02.000 No.

01:06:03.000 Do you want Candace Owens to be vindicated?

01:06:04.000 No.

01:06:05.000 It's the most mental thing I've ever heard.

01:06:08.000 Probably.

01:06:09.000 What do you mean probably?

01:06:10.000 Almost certainly.

01:06:11.000 This is what happens when you spend too much time in America.

01:06:13.000 Yeah.

01:06:14.000 This is what everyone in America is like.

01:06:16.000 Like, look, I know that this is probably true, but what if this?

01:06:19.000 It's the end of that.

01:06:20.000 What if the aliens...

01:06:21.000 She's thrown a Hail Mary.

01:06:22.000 Yeah.

01:06:23.000 And if that, it's a wild Hail Mary.

01:06:26.000 There's nobody at the other end of the field, James.

01:06:28.000 That's what the testing will establish.

01:06:30.000 Whether or not there's someone at the other end of the field.

01:06:31.000 She's had two kids.

01:06:33.000 So they say.

01:06:37.000 What do you mean?

01:06:38.000 I'm just saying, I like the narrative.

01:06:40.000 I like the charisma.

01:06:41.000 I like the story.

01:06:42.000 Let's find out.

01:06:44.000 Let's keep an open mind.

01:06:47.000 Mate.

01:06:48.000 I thought this was an open-minded podcast.

01:06:50.000 Why did you think that?

01:06:52.000 It's in the bio.

01:06:56.000 Isn't that the point?

01:06:57.000 It is.

01:06:58.000 We're exploring dangerous ideas.

01:06:59.000 Paris Owens is exploring a dangerous idea.

01:07:01.000 Maybe a mistaken idea.

01:07:02.000 But don't we love that she gets the freedom to explore a dangerous idea?

01:07:06.000 I love people having freedom, but it's like...

01:07:10.000 Sounds like people hate freedom on this podcast.

01:07:16.000 I'm just saying, let's find out.

01:07:18.000 I'm not saying one thing or the other.

01:07:19.000 I think I'm in the clear.

01:07:20.000 I don't think I've said anything that will get me in trouble.

01:07:23.000 I think what you said about Enoch was positively blasphemous.

01:07:28.000 To both sides.

01:07:29.000 I don't consider him to be a saint.

01:07:30.000 To both sides.

01:07:31.000 Unlike some people on this podcast.

01:07:32.000 I just think we should all look more closely at the difficult historical questions.

01:07:37.000 James?

01:07:38.000 Yeah?

01:07:39.000 What's the one thing that we're not talking about?

01:07:41.000 I hesitate.

01:07:42.000 Honestly, the collapse of the Church of England.

01:07:45.000 I think that's really fundamental.

01:07:46.000 You're going to be a Catholic country again, and while I celebrate that, I think it's weird

01:07:50.000 and I think it's odd that no one's talking about the total collapse of the Church of England.

01:07:55.000 The pews are empty.

01:07:57.000 Doctrinal fractures ripping through the, whatever they call that, conference.

01:08:01.000 The pews aren't empty.

01:08:02.000 I go to a church in London, which is a Church of England church.

01:08:09.000 The pews are not empty.

01:08:11.000 I'm glad they've got one.

01:08:12.000 That's anecdotal.

01:08:13.000 You were against me using anecdotal evidence before.

01:08:16.000 I think if we look at the census numbers, it's not strong.

01:08:18.000 Yeah, it's true.

01:08:20.000 And it was all done in the hope that they could connect with the youth, and it didn't happen.

01:08:24.000 The youth turned away, and the baby boomers got to feel hip with the guitar music.

01:08:30.000 And the lady up there, and the, you know what I'm saying?

01:08:33.000 This is a huge, I just don't know why no one's talking about the collapse of the Church of England.

01:08:38.000 Because it is statistically happening.

01:08:41.000 Catholics are holding on.

01:08:43.000 They're losing South America.

01:08:44.000 People should talk about that.

01:08:46.000 The evangelical thing in South America is, I see no one really reflecting on that in a meaningful way.

01:08:51.000 But it suits the South American temperament.

01:08:55.000 How?

01:08:56.000 Because they're histrionic, emotional people.

01:08:59.000 Stereotypically speaking.

01:09:00.000 There is no more emotional religion than the Catholics in South America.

01:09:06.000 So many statues covered with blood, weeping, special medals.

01:09:10.000 Oh yeah, they love all that.

01:09:11.000 Yeah.

01:09:12.000 Yeah, my family love all that.

01:09:13.000 But it's that prosperity gospel that's getting underway there that spooks me.

01:09:18.000 All right.

01:09:19.000 England will be Catholic.

01:09:20.000 Thank you, James.

01:09:21.000 Not by any choice of the government.

01:09:22.000 It just seems to be happening.

01:09:23.000 You killed so many people to get rid of the Catholics and they're back.

01:09:27.000 And you're not even angry about it?

01:09:30.000 You do pick the strangest subjects to get angry about.

01:09:32.000 I think that's a big one.

01:09:33.000 I'm also thrilled about it.

01:09:34.000 But I think you guys should be esteemed.

01:09:37.000 It's been great being on the pod.

01:09:40.000 We love freedom.

01:09:42.000 Do you?

01:09:43.000 Yeah.

01:09:44.000 Do you?

01:09:47.000 With that, head over to triggerpod.co.uk where James is going to answer your questions in exactly the same way he's answered ours.

01:09:55.000 Did the podcast political comedian kill the stand-up comedian?

01:10:00.000 What do you think of Joe Rogan and Dave Smith?

01:10:25.000 Brooklyn, destined for something more, featuring all the songs you love, including America, Forever in Blue Jeans, and Sweet Caroline.

01:10:32.000 Like Jersey Boys and Beautiful, the next musical mega hit is here, the Neil Diamond Musical, A Beautiful Noise.

01:10:39.000 April 28th through June 7th, 2026, the Princess of Wales Theatre.

01:10:44.000 Get tickets at mirvish.com.

TRIGGERnometry - February 04, 2026

Comedian James McCann Destroys Triggernometry

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