00:38:07.120But the fact, but she was the conduit between the young girls, Epstein and all the other men.
00:38:16.900And we know the other men because there was a flight log, but you are saying that he was
00:38:22.960the only guy and all these rich and powerful guys, it just doesn't ring true.
00:38:29.320And to me, it just fuels conspiracy theories around this because we know as a society, as a, as a, as a people, we're not being told the truth.
00:38:39.640And that to me is what really allows us, allows the conspiracy theories to flourish.
00:38:44.800This is, uh, I tracked the kind of the origins of the Pizzagate conspiracy theory in my book that it was kind of an overlapping of several threads.
00:38:51.640Again, you know, just owning the libtards, hating the Democrats and so on.
00:38:55.120And then, you know, all this stuff about the Clintons in the nineties and their, uh, you know, that they had people murdered and so on.
00:39:01.820And then Bill Clinton's, uh, you know, uh, preference for young, uh, women, but adult women.
00:39:09.760And then you have the Epstein thing with, you know, all these people on the jets and Epstein's preference appeared to be young women.
00:39:20.520That seemed to be his window of, of sexual preference.
00:39:23.480And so, but that's an underage, uh, a young teenage woman, girl, and technically that's pedophilia.
00:39:31.100So you get this, well, there was a pedophile ring going on, on that jet, on that Island with Democrats like Bill Clinton and whoever else is on that list on that plane.
00:39:43.100And so it seems like, okay, you kind of put it all together and you just use the word pedophile, which is technically correct for Epstein, but it isn't like he's having sex with five-year-olds.
00:40:09.360Technically there's no pedophile ring at this pizzeria, but it has elements to it.
00:40:13.140Oh, and the one other thing of the drinking of the blood, you know, that there was the stories about these tech billionaires who wanted to have the blood transfusions from young children to get that adrenal.
00:40:22.920No hormone that supposedly leads to anti-aging and things like that.
00:40:29.780And those tech billionaires tend to be liberals, you know, industrial rich people lean right and tech people, rich people lean left.
00:40:37.360So something there, you kind of throw all that together and you get a conspiracy theory that technically isn't true, but the little elements of it are true.
00:40:44.880And then that's what happens in people's minds.
00:40:48.280Yeah, I think the problem is, Michael, with the case like Epstein, it was so shocking.
00:40:54.380And there was so many like high profile people.
00:40:58.040And like I said before, there's a complete lack of transparency, which just means that like you've talked about, you know, the pizza game, whatever else.
00:41:08.160And of course, those ones are complete nonsense.
00:41:10.180But this feels like something far more sinister and far more real and true to life.
00:41:19.020OK, so again, back to my constructive conspiracism, people are naturally suspicious and think there's something going on because often there is.
00:41:27.280So there's back to pedophilia, there are pedophiles.
00:41:44.480And so like back in the 90s, we tracked a movement called the recovered memory movement, which was these are adult, mostly women in therapy for various reasons.
00:41:53.640And being told by these therapists, well, you know, perhaps you were, oops, lost you guys.
00:42:02.380So back in the 90s, there was this recovered memory movement, which these mostly adult women in therapy were told by the therapist that maybe your problem stems from being molested as a child.
00:42:13.980And they were going, well, I don't think I was.
00:42:26.160And there were men, these are fathers, grandfathers, uncles, family, friends, and so on, who were charged, tried, convicted, and jailed for molesting children based on only one of these recovered memories.
00:42:40.980They used hypnosis or just guided imagery or whatever in these therapy sessions, and it turned out to be complete bunk.
00:42:46.760This was totally stopped by lawsuits against these therapists for planting false memories.
00:42:53.040And the problem at the time, though, was that pedophilia is not zero.
00:56:57.740I was going to ask if there's something.
00:56:59.760I noticed that among people who believe, particularly these conspiracy theories or, you know, whatever you want to call them, these ideas about.
00:57:10.320I think at the core of them, there's a certain self-victimhood to them.
00:57:17.040There is, you know, we are the oppressed and the elites, this evil cabal of elites have got together to take away even more of our rights.
00:57:25.600And they're going to take our money and they're going to take our houses.
00:57:28.640And you can't have a hamburger anymore and you can't drive a car.
00:57:31.940And look, maybe they've got legitimate concerns, but it seems to me when I talk to these people and I listen to the way they talk and I hear the stuff that they say, I get the sense that there's a part of them that actually really enjoys this idea.
00:57:48.480There's a sort of, there's a kind of emotional reward to being this powerless person against whom the world is conspired.
00:58:32.540You know, Russian collusion and all that, much of which did not pan out like the Democrats thought.
00:58:36.840Or in previous elections, you know, like in Bush, both 2000 with the Florida hanging chad issue with Al Gore.
00:58:45.740And then in 2004, there were conspiracy theories from the Democrats that Bush, there were some shenanigans.
00:58:51.040And I think in Ohio and Iowa, it might have been one of the other Midwest states where there was supposedly election fraud going on that never panned out for the Democrats.
00:59:00.180Right. So it's not fair to say, well, Republicans are more likely to be conspiratorial.
00:59:10.400We know that people who whoever falls out of power, whoever does not have as much money, control, power, thinks there's other like in corporations.
00:59:18.100People on the bottom are more conspiratorial about the people at the top.
00:59:21.860People at the top usually don't have as much control and power as the people in the bottom think that they do.
00:59:26.860And then just extrapolate that out to the Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates or George Soros of the world, Elon Musk now, that, you know, somehow there's something going on there.
00:59:49.000It's rational to be a little skeptical of that.
00:59:52.040It's really interesting what we're talking about, and particularly because the moment you said about, you know, the loser always believes there's a conspiracy theory.
00:59:59.860I've been watching the football, or as you call it incorrectly, the Soccer World Cup, and every loser, every losing team, at least two or three people have come out, blamed the referee, and said the referee is biased, said the referee is biased.
01:00:13.660So, you know, so I think it's just human nature, really, that we need to blame someone for our own failings.
01:00:20.220Yeah, there's studies on this of showing subjects, videos of a football game or whatever, you know, and some of the subjects are in favor of one team, other subjects are in favor of the other team.
01:00:31.140And they both see like the same foul or the same incident that gets, that the referee calls on.
01:00:36.480And the one side thinks, oh, it was a totally legitimate call.
01:00:39.380And the other side thinks, oh, it's the ref is blind or he's biased or whatever.
01:01:00.640If you talk about openness to experience, I imagine drugs which increase your openness to new experiences would increase your credulity for conspiracy theories.
01:01:13.440Certainly, alcohol is a disinhibitory drug, so people are more susceptible to, well, everything, which is why you shouldn't make decisions when you've been drinking.
01:01:23.620Probably true for a lot of drugs, I would suspect.
01:03:05.040We certainly weren't happy with the fact that he got so much hate.
01:03:08.780And it's the last thing we want for someone to come on our show and then end up being attacked in that way, even if, you know, whether we agree or disagree.
01:03:17.320In this case, I think we're much more aligned with with your way of thinking about it.
01:03:21.180Anyway, Michael, the book is called Conspiracy.