TRIGGERnometry - Critical Race Theory Made Me Miserable - Zandile Powell from Kidology

00:00:00.960 I only applied to Cambridge, got into Cambridge, and I thought that was going to be the beginning of

00:00:07.600 my full agency. It was actually the beginning of the end. I suddenly was exposed to sort of a

00:00:15.600 culture of critical theories which told me that I was a victim and that I was at an inherent

00:00:23.600 disadvantage and that really messed with my mind. I got very depressed, was an antidepressant, 0.87

00:00:31.440 was suicidal for my second year. Throughout my life it was white people who cared for me, 0.91

00:00:37.680 it was white people who loved me. I'd been abandoned by my black mother so there was an

00:00:44.720 inherent contradiction in what I was being told. You're a young woman who is at Cambridge University,

00:00:52.800 you get a degree from there, your opportunities are limitless, and yet you're a victim with,

00:00:59.440 I mean it's just bollocks.

00:01:14.000 Hello and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster. I'm Constantine Kishan. And this is a show for you

00:01:20.320 if you want honest conversations with fascinating people. Our brilliant guest today is a fellow

00:01:25.680 YouTuber whose channel is called Kidology. She goes by ZpalZ. Welcome to Trigonometry.

00:01:30.000 Thank you for having me. Thank you.

00:01:31.360 It's a real pleasure. By the way, if she looks tense, it's because we did about five attempts at

00:01:34.880 the introduction and we totally ruined it.

00:01:36.960 Hello and welcome to Trigonometry.

00:01:40.400 Mate, why are you laughing?

00:01:41.600 I don't know.

00:01:42.800 Our brilliant guest today is a fellow YouTuber whose channel...

00:01:47.680 So welcome. You're probably looking at us like we don't know what we're doing, which is accurate. 0.96

00:01:52.000 Before we get into the conversation, tell everybody who are you, how are you, where you are,

00:01:55.600 what's been the journey through life that leads you to be sitting here talking to us?

00:01:58.480 Well, I am basically a Gen Z YouTuber who makes content about everything and anything to do with

00:02:08.080 modern society, and that sometimes includes myself. Why I'm here today, that boggles me because I

00:02:16.560 cannot imagine why you'd want to speak to me. I was absolutely flattered, so thank you. But I tend to

00:02:22.560 just make content that is about the issues that young people are going through, particularly with

00:02:29.040 regards to relationships, modern politics, identity politics specifically, mainly because I have quite

00:02:36.400 a unique upbringing and quite a, as a result, a unique perspective on, I think, a lot of the contradictions

00:02:45.440 about living as a modern individual in modern societies like Britain and, well, primarily the

00:02:52.560 US. Well, you've got our attention already. I noticed you're fully integrated into British

00:02:57.760 culture and that you were incredibly self-deprecating to start with. But you mentioned having a unique

00:03:03.440 background and you really do have a unique background. Tell everybody about that.

00:03:07.040 Well, let's start all the way from the beginning. I was abandoned by my mother alongside my older

00:03:18.080 brother, and we were then separated into different fostering situations. I was fostered by a white South 0.87

00:03:27.360 African family of women, sort of an intergenerational great-grandmother, grandmother, mother. The mother 0.94

00:03:35.200 adopted me, but unfortunately she had severe mental health issues, bipolar. And so I was raised by her

00:03:42.240 mother, who was a Pentecostal and was devout. And this was post-apartheid South Africa, the late 1990s,

00:03:54.400 early 2000s. And she was basically believed that the Lord spoke through her. And I was sort of an example

00:04:04.160 of the potential of the potential of South Africa or the potential of being a rainbow child of the

00:04:11.200 rainbow nation and the potential that black South Africans could have if raised accordingly. 0.61

00:04:20.240 So no pressure then?

00:04:21.200 No, no, not really. No, no. So I was very devout, very religious. And as a result, my life was quite

00:04:30.880 blissful until it wasn't until, unfortunately, she developed or contracted, developed cancer.

00:04:40.320 And we believed that God was going to heal her, obviously. Obviously, he didn't. And so unfortunately,

00:04:46.880 she passed away. And I was then, I then went to boarding school in South Africa.

00:04:54.000 How old were you when she passed away? I was 13, going on 14. So yes, yes. And this was quite a long,

00:05:03.200 she was sick from when I was about nine years old until 13. So it was a very long and slow

00:05:10.160 death, regrettably. But I was then in boarding school for the last year of her life.

00:05:16.000 And then suddenly, I was told that I'm moving to the UK to be fostered by her ex-husband,

00:05:25.760 who was a 75-year-old white South African who'd lived in Zimbabwe when it was Rhodesia. And he was

00:05:34.640 very mournful of the good old days before the blacks came into power. And so I moved here, 1.00

00:05:41.040 I was given a day's notice. And I came to live with him. First thing I was, first thing I saw going

00:05:48.720 into his flat was a poster saying, kill the blacks, from back from his day serving in the 0.99

00:05:57.520 Zimbabwean or Rhodesian Civil War. So yes, we didn't get on. 0.99

00:06:02.480 You are British. That is the most understated thing I've ever heard in my life.

00:06:12.800 Yeah, as opposed to saying, kill people like me, we didn't get on. 0.91

00:06:16.720 Yes, yes. Yes, yes. I think I do commend my religious upbringing because it made me very, 0.91

00:06:25.280 it has made me very understanding, even though I'm not a believer now. It's made me incredibly

00:06:29.920 understanding of things that I think otherwise I wouldn't be so understanding of. So we were just

00:06:38.160 from completely different worlds. And it was very awkward for him to live with me and also to sort

00:06:44.960 of acknowledge that I was a part of his family. So it was quite contentious. I also did not want to be

00:06:52.720 here at all. And yes, so I was here. I then went to school and I found a new religion, which was

00:07:02.800 getting into Cambridge at any cost. And I only applied to Cambridge, got into Cambridge. And I thought

00:07:10.160 that was going to be the beginning of my full agency. It was actually the beginning of the end. And

00:07:17.200 I suddenly was exposed to sort of a culture of critical theories, which told me that I was a victim

00:07:27.280 and that I was at an inherent disadvantage. And that really messed with my mind. I got very depressed,

00:07:37.600 was an antidepressant, was suicidal for my second year. Yes, it wasn't going very well. But

00:07:47.680 I, then after I left Cambridge, I sort of didn't know what to do. I was meant to go to Oxford,

00:07:57.200 that fell through. And so I ended up working in retail. And after working in retail, I

00:08:05.120 have just been doing YouTube ever since. Yeah. Francis, one thing I was going to ask you

00:08:13.520 about victimhood is something I talk about a lot, as you know. I mean, there's a lot of people who are

00:08:19.920 not victims. In your case, there's a credible claim there that you've had a pretty rough life

00:08:27.120 and you could quite easily claim to be a victim. Why was it that being told you are one through this

00:08:34.320 particular lens? Why was that so distressing to you? I think it was because of who I was in the

00:08:44.400 context of Cambridge. So I found that I went to Cambridge and I suddenly didn't have connections.

00:08:54.960 I didn't have friends. And I had to figure that out, how that was going to happen. And I was very

00:09:01.120 quickly exposed to critical theory, critical race theory, particularly. And the assumption that

00:09:08.400 because I was black, I was therefore inevitably going to join all these black societies, which I did.

00:09:15.760 But it became very apparent that I was very native African. And because of that,

00:09:21.280 that there was a disconnect in terms of our morality, a disconnect in terms of how I saw myself and how

00:09:29.200 they saw me. The other problem was that... Can I just stop you? Let's delve into that,

00:09:35.520 because what you just said there was so interesting to me about how you saw yourself, how they saw me.

00:09:41.920 And because I was a native African, my morality was different. Let's really unpack that. What do you mean by that?

00:09:51.280 I think my, in terms of being native African, I think it doesn't, when it comes to me,

00:09:57.760 it doesn't really sort of pertain to sort of the stereotypical native African. I think even

00:10:01.920 in South Africa, it was very different to most black South African children, because I lived and

00:10:09.680 socialized exclusively with white South Africans, poor and rich white South Africans. We sort of

00:10:17.040 were very socially mobile throughout my time there. So I was very much, I saw myself as white. I really 0.93

00:10:27.840 did. And I didn't really understand why other people didn't see me as white. And fortunately,

00:10:34.080 in South Africa, I was able to play into that very much because of how I spoke, because I'd always be

00:10:40.160 hand in hand with a morbidly obese, Pentecostal Christian woman. So it was okay. But coming here 1.00

00:10:49.600 and being here, it was very different in terms of how people saw me and wanted me to act, especially in

00:10:55.520 in relation to seeing white people as being oppressive to me when, in fact, throughout my life,

00:11:06.160 it was white people who cared for me. It was white people who loved me. It was white people who gave me

00:11:12.160 purpose and meaning. Never in my life did black South Africans want to foster me, wanted to adopt me.

00:11:20.400 I'd been abandoned by my black mother. So there was an inherent contradiction in what I was being told,

00:11:27.600 especially at university. And the fact that I was expected to very much assimilate into this narrative

00:11:38.480 and into a community that really conflicted with everything that I believed and had experienced.

00:11:48.800 And what, because you've got quite a fascinating insight, and we'll talk about the rest of what

00:11:55.040 you're going to talk about in a second, into the way we perceive race. How, as an outsider,

00:12:00.800 from an outsider's point of view, what do you think about the way we talk about race in this country,

00:12:06.400 the way we perceive it, the way it's, the narratives that are propagated through our society about it?

00:12:20.000 I find it incredibly unfreeing, I think, for a lot of people. I think it's unfreeing for black people, 1.00

00:12:27.600 because I would say in this country there is now this very Americanized perspective that

00:12:36.320 everything can be reduced to some kind of institutional or structural ill, which disproportionately

00:12:43.040 affects people of color, specifically black people. And it doesn't matter about the empirical reality of,

00:12:50.080 for instance, all the black people who I knew at Cambridge were incredibly wealthy black people,

00:12:56.800 some of their parents were famous, you know, they sort of were doing quite well for themselves,

00:13:01.680 had gone to private school, but they were oppressed, and they really lived by that identity. And it didn't,

00:13:11.440 it didn't correspond to what was actually going on. And so I think a consequence of that is that

00:13:16.240 when you're living a fantasy, the world around you can crumble, the real issues are just not addressed

00:13:25.120 and not looked at. And the most successful in the movement of oppression and victimhood win.

00:13:34.080 And so who do you mean by that? So examples or just the people who were winning with these narratives?

00:13:44.880 I would say it's primarily thought, thought leaders, or so-called quote unquote intellectuals.

00:13:50.560 Probably, I think the one that stands out most to me is Ibrahim X. Kendi. Individuals who've made an entire career

00:13:58.400 career around this, I think, very pop cultural interpretation of critical theory right now,

00:14:06.800 which has sort of really digressed from the roots of critical theory. I think it's incredibly vindictive.

00:14:14.080 I think it's ultimately making a lot of people a lot of money, including Ibrahim. He's now been signed on to ESPN.

00:14:21.520 So he's doing great. And I think online, especially in the sphere that I work in, which is mainly video essays

00:14:30.720 about politics, specifically US politics, it's very much dominated by a sort of sub-cultural subset called

00:14:39.440 bread tube or cornbread tube, which have very unrealistic expectations for people and of the world.

00:14:49.600 And I think because we are perpetually online, it's very easy to forget about everything else that is going on.

00:14:57.360 And when you're making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, you don't really have to think about sort of the reality of things.

00:15:04.000 You can just live in a world of rather revelatory ideas and ideals that will never come to pass in your lifetime, at least.

00:15:14.000 Ibrahim X. Kendi is just being attacked by people saying he's a racist because he's excluded people and he wasn't anti-racist enough.

00:15:23.040 I'm not surprised.

00:15:23.840 So it's the chickens that are coming home to roost.

00:15:26.720 But you mentioned real problems get ignored when these fake narratives or whatever you want to call them are focused on.

00:15:35.680 And what are the real problems?

00:15:37.040 I think right now the greatest problem that I think underlies everything is a loss of any universal ethic or any sort of anything that holds everybody together above that of identity.

00:15:56.880 I think right now we've really resorted to looking at very specific identity and almost tribalistic elements that really separate us into little groups in our liberal society.

00:16:10.480 And as a result, we don't actually have a society.

00:16:13.840 We don't have anything that really drives us as a people, as a collective people in, I'd say, Britain and the US especially.

00:16:23.560 And so I think when you are people and you don't have any allegiance to each other, any common language even.

00:16:35.280 I mean, right now, I think it's very clear we don't have a common language when it comes to something that should be as basic as gender and intergenerational especially.

00:16:45.340 I think you're seeing the beginning of the end of, I think, a project in the West that has taken centuries to get to this point and is now not being realized.

00:17:02.060 I don't think we sort of realized the consequences when we killed God of what we were doing.

00:17:07.560 And I think nothing has necessarily replaced that execution meaningfully and spiritually for a lot of people.

00:17:17.560 And yes, I think that's underlying a lot of things.

00:17:22.440 Yeah.

00:17:23.320 Well, we had a guest on called James Orr.

00:17:26.560 He talked about the need for something pre-political.

00:17:29.040 And it seems that now we're in a place where either your ethnic identity or increasing your political identity becomes – it gives you meaning in a way that, you know, other things actually ought to do.

00:17:45.240 We were talking about wokeness, anti-wokeness, et cetera, before we started.

00:17:50.420 And a lot of people now, they're fully invested in this worldview, which is interesting to me because while I think wokeness is really bad and I've always opposed it, I've opposed it not as an identity thing.

00:18:04.760 I just think this way of doing things is wrong.

00:18:06.680 But I do see that people are sort of becoming very rigid in the way that they see their role in the world.

00:18:14.760 And it happened with race and gender and all of these things.

00:18:18.800 But it's also happening just with ideas, which to me is kind of a weird place because ideas are supposed to evolve and change over time.

00:18:26.580 And you're supposed to have flexibility in the way that you think about things.

00:18:30.480 You're sounding very old, Mike.

00:18:31.720 Yeah.

00:18:31.940 Well, I am.

00:18:32.700 I am.

00:18:33.720 Yes, I agree.

00:18:34.620 Thank you.

00:18:35.420 So, yes, you were old.

00:18:38.860 Forgive me.

00:18:40.740 She does think you're old.

00:18:43.160 No, I would definitely agree.

00:18:45.440 I think that intellectual culture in the West has been in decline since the 70s.

00:18:51.940 So I don't want to sound too much like a historian.

00:18:53.920 But I do think that I think in the post-war years, it was a very interesting time in the West in terms of existentialism,

00:19:03.660 being able to replace sort of the death of God that was so apparent after the war.

00:19:09.540 And I think that really swept the U.S. and France and parts of the U.K. academically.

00:19:17.700 And because it was so applicable to people of all races, genders, you know, existentialist feminists, you know, all kinds of movements adopted this and could really see themselves in this because it was so all-encompassing and expansive.

00:19:34.720 And I think, in my opinion, since the 70s, especially since second wave feminism, early days of second wave feminism, this idea of the personal being political has taken over.

00:19:50.840 And the personal, in my opinion, is never political.

00:19:56.660 It's always philosophical at its root.

00:20:00.460 And that's something that is very personal.

00:20:02.880 And that's something that you have to take responsibility for.

00:20:05.520 When the personal becomes political, suddenly all responsibility is delegated to somebody else.

00:20:11.820 It's somebody else's problem that you're oppressed.

00:20:14.180 It's somebody else's problem that you can't advance, that you can't do with your life what you want to do.

00:20:19.280 You can completely invert morality to serve you.

00:20:24.120 And I think that's what has happened with a lot of identity political groups and movements now.

00:20:31.360 And do you think a lot of people of your generation buy into that idea, the fact that, you know, the personal is political and it's not their fault, they're not doing what they want because the patriarchy or whoever it is is stopping them from doing so?

00:20:44.360 Yes, I've been counseled so many times for saying just that.

00:20:47.280 If I say anything like that, because there's no conception, especially with Gen Z and I'd say millennials as well.

00:20:57.620 But with Gen Z, there's absolutely no idea in how to fathom your identity beyond that of it being a political statement and being something that other people have to recognize and other people have to do something about. 1.00

00:21:12.940 They have to change their actions in relation to how you identify.

00:21:15.820 And you should be able to engage with the world and walk in the world safely, securely, and in the exact way that you envisage and see and ultimately have no responsibility.

00:21:29.600 So the world, just to translate what you're saying into, so that I understand it better, simpler language, what you're saying is essentially people carry an idea of how the world is supposed to adjust to them.

00:21:41.800 Yes, yes.

00:21:43.080 As opposed to...

00:21:44.280 But isn't... 0.99

00:21:46.120 I understand how stupid that is at an intellectual level, but at a practical level, are you not going to be slapped in the face by reality on a daily basis if you attempt to do this? 0.98

00:21:55.180 Yes, you are, and that's why I think a lot of people retreat to the internet, and especially in my generation, because the internet allows you to live in the delusion that the world can change. 0.98

00:22:11.420 And also it means that when you go into the world and it doesn't conform to what you want it to be, you get very depressed, mental health issues arise, everything seems a lot worse.

00:22:25.180 Than it actually is.

00:22:26.800 And I definitely see that as a big problem with my generation.

00:22:35.280 Everything is a lot worse than it is about things that actually are not as important as the things that actually are a problem that can be and ought to be addressed.

00:22:47.480 And which I think we can all or ought to all agree on if we actually cared about those things.

00:22:54.840 Yeah.

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00:24:03.200 It sounds just incredibly sad because you're denying that you have agency in the world.

00:24:10.260 And that's so disempowering.

00:24:12.060 How are you going to improve yourself?

00:24:13.580 How are you going to build a career?

00:24:15.040 How are you going to get married or do whatever it is that you want to do if you don't believe that you have agency?

00:24:21.120 You're literally powerless.

00:24:22.380 Yes, yes, yes.

00:24:29.560 Yes, and I definitely, especially when I was at university, I definitely felt that and I experienced that.

00:24:35.940 I was in despair, like constant despair for days.

00:24:40.020 And I didn't know what to do with myself.

00:24:43.940 I didn't know how I was going to navigate the world because what was the point?

00:24:49.300 What's the point in trying to do things when inevitably I'm going to fail because I'm black and the systems and institutions are against me?

00:24:57.860 And you end up fulfilling that prophecy just in yourself.

00:25:04.160 And yes, yes.

00:25:07.160 But that's so remarkable because you're a young woman who is at Cambridge University, one of the best universities in the world.

00:25:17.200 You get a degree from there, your opportunities are limitless.

00:25:21.680 You can pretty much go into any industry you want, any country you want, and yet you're a victim with, I mean, it's just bollocks.

00:25:36.300 Yes.

00:25:37.060 Technical term.

00:25:37.800 Yes, yes, it definitely is bollocks. 0.89

00:25:43.180 And it was so unhealthy, especially for me as somebody who didn't get on with the black people who I was in association with.

00:25:55.320 And they didn't like me as well.

00:25:57.240 It wasn't just one-sided.

00:25:58.360 But I was expected to somehow be in allegiance with these people who I didn't have any personal affinity with.

00:26:06.100 And then not with white people who I actually like culturally had a lot more in common with, sort of was able to, it just made a lot more sense to me.

00:26:18.780 And the consequence of that is that I was called racist and sort of self-hating black, which is something that I'm always accused of.

00:26:29.280 And I think because people, especially my generation, care a lot about what everybody else thinks a lot, even though it's all about sort of me, me, me, me, me, me, it's always with the lens of somebody else and everybody else.

00:26:44.920 Oh, but narcissism always needs the supply. 0.77

00:26:47.520 Yes, yes.

00:26:48.200 It needs the supply.

00:26:49.280 Yes.

00:26:49.480 That's the good stuff.

00:26:50.480 Definitely, definitely.

00:26:51.580 Yeah.

00:26:51.820 So I'm curious how then, I mean, it's clear you're a very independently minded person and you think for yourself, blah, blah, blah.

00:26:59.820 But also, how do you get out of that despair once you find yourself in that situation, as you were at Cambridge, where you sort of feel out of place and people are projecting their things onto you, et cetera?

00:27:10.400 Yes.

00:27:11.400 Well, I think the thing with the victimhood mindset, I guess I can just call it, is that usually you find some kind of power in it because people recognize your victimhood and you find a community or a tribe.

00:27:25.840 And then, you know, you feel good about yourself.

00:27:29.460 I didn't find that community because I wasn't accepted by the black people that I was meant to be in tribal allegiance with.

00:27:37.320 And that was very reminiscent of my experience back in South Africa.

00:27:40.400 And so I think because I didn't find the kind of very fake emancipation through being a victim that most people who rarely subscribe to it do, I wasn't getting that cathartic feeling from it.

00:27:59.060 And I think the sort of really important thing was that I applied to Oxford to do an MA and I didn't think about the logistics of it.

00:28:12.500 I didn't think that I had to somehow have £60,000 to do an MA.

00:28:18.000 I thought it was just going to happen because I was black.

00:28:20.360 And so obviously, I'm not even kidding.

00:28:26.480 I did.

00:28:27.540 I really did.

00:28:28.480 And I couldn't fathom how it wasn't going to happen.

00:28:34.420 I thought it was going to happen, I think, because I was very deluded as an undergraduate that I'd made it to Cambridge.

00:28:40.920 I got in.

00:28:41.700 Then I had this whole idea of being a victim.

00:28:44.260 And so I was like, oh, that's why I got in, because, you know, they needed to fill quotas.

00:28:47.920 And, you know, it was like that.

00:28:49.720 And so obviously, Oxford was going to accept me and then pay for me.

00:28:53.880 They accepted me, but didn't pay for me.

00:28:55.420 So suddenly I couldn't go and I had no plans at all because my entire mindset was I'm going to be an academic.

00:29:05.540 I'm just going to be a political philosopher.

00:29:07.580 That's all I'm going to do.

00:29:08.580 And lo and behold, the world doesn't work like that.

00:29:13.240 And so I was alone.

00:29:15.000 I had no money.

00:29:16.240 I didn't know what to do.

00:29:18.120 I had no plans.

00:29:20.740 And I was applying for jobs everywhere.

00:29:22.960 Obviously, I'd done no work experience while I was at uni because, you know, oppression.

00:29:26.420 You were going to be a political philosopher.

00:29:27.660 Exactly.

00:29:28.540 You know, so, yes.

00:29:31.060 And the only job I got was working at a grocery store in Cambridge.

00:29:36.900 And so I spent a few years there.

00:29:38.920 And that was very important for me, especially living in Cambridge, not as a student, but as somebody with the Cambridge working class, all of whom are white as well, which was very.

00:29:51.760 I had to really introspect about my oppression and they didn't care that I'd gone to Cambridge and I had to work to actually get recognition, to actually advance.

00:30:08.820 Not that I advanced very far.

00:30:10.580 I wasn't terribly good at my job, mainly just socialize with people.

00:30:15.040 But it was very good because I made so many friends, work friends, with people who were mainly white, conservative Gen Xers who I worked with.

00:30:28.900 And they became like my default family.

00:30:33.420 And it was very important for me to actually see that and to experience the reality of people who live in Cambridge, who aren't like rich students cycling around everywhere, thinking that they rule the world.

00:30:47.300 And that really got me out of not just myself, but out of my depression.

00:30:56.360 Definitely.

00:30:57.420 Yeah.

00:30:58.020 And how did, when they, so I took, what did you do at Cambridge?

00:31:02.240 What was your degree in?

00:31:03.420 I did human, social and political sciences, but I was the one black girl who decided to do early modern political philosophy.

00:31:13.080 So, yes.

00:31:14.620 So when they were teaching, I have no problem with the teaching of critical race here in the way that I have no problem with the teaching of Marxism.

00:31:21.420 I do have a real problem with them going, this is, you know, how the world is, because that to me is not education, that's indoctrination.

00:31:28.400 So I guess my question is, how did they teach CRT, critical race theory?

00:31:34.040 Did they present it as this is the way the world is?

00:31:37.060 Was it slipped in through the back door?

00:31:39.180 How did it work?

00:31:39.880 Well, it was a very interesting time because it was sort of, I feel that the department was on sort of the threshold of trying to implement these dramatic changes.

00:31:53.380 But we were still on the old curriculum.

00:31:55.560 And so there was a lot of pushback whilst things were being taught by groups that were decolonized the course or the curriculum and a lot of momentum for these things.

00:32:08.780 And I got involved in that in my first and second year and in my third year, I gave up on that and I decided I can't pretend I'm, I love Thomas Hobbes and old dead white men. 0.63

00:32:23.340 I'm going to focus on that.

00:32:24.680 But it was taught in my second year, based on two papers that I did, it was, it was taught as if there wasn't really an alternative.

00:32:39.300 You were taught about these theories about sort of the founding fathers, you were taught about sort of, you know, how things had happened.

00:32:45.440 But this was the old way.

00:32:48.040 And we're teaching you this because we are in transition to the new way of what the course is going to be in future years.

00:32:57.640 And so we were sort of exposed to some of that, some new authors who are trickling in.

00:33:03.900 But I didn't continue in my third year sort of down that path.

00:33:09.400 I completely regressed back to sort of the very, very traditional Cambridge education.

00:33:18.760 And Zee, if you were trying to explain CRT to one of your retail grocery store workmates, what would you say that you were being taught?

00:33:28.040 I would say that I was being taught that because you, my colleague, are white and I'm black, you have privilege that I can only dream of.

00:33:52.140 And because of that, you need to alter your ways, alter your behavior, be more conscious and aware of the things that you do and say to me and to other people who look like me and how you engage with us in the world.

00:34:09.140 Because a lot of what you do will be interpreted as microaggressions or taking for granted the advantages that you have.

00:34:22.440 So you assuming, I don't know, that I know how to fold jeans, right?

00:34:32.620 But I don't because I've never worn jeans, I don't know.

00:34:40.280 Something like that, just something very like minuscule, something that would really, really disrupt our friendship, I would say.

00:34:49.700 You know what's interesting?

00:34:53.160 We kind of have this situation that's happened in my lifetime where we've gone from pathologizing difference, difference was bad.

00:35:05.060 You know, if you stand out, you're bad.

00:35:07.060 To now we're almost at a point, we then went to a point where difference was, diversity is our strength, celebrate this, celebrate difference, celebrate this.

00:35:17.040 To almost now where, like, difference is even impossible to discuss in that sort of context, right?

00:35:22.800 So in the past, it might have been the case of, oh, so you're from South Africa.

00:35:26.460 Well, I'm from Russia.

00:35:27.240 And we would exchange our visions of the world, how we see the world, our experiences, et cetera.

00:35:34.440 Whereas now it's like almost, well, I best not exchange with you any ideas about how different things are,

00:35:41.140 because I might offend you by not appreciating your particular experience of the world.

00:35:47.580 It's an interesting transformation, don't you think?

00:35:51.660 Yes.

00:35:53.120 Yes.

00:35:53.760 I think it's a very regressive transformation.

00:35:59.820 I think it's really just undermined.

00:36:00.940 That's what I meant.

00:36:01.840 Yes, yes.

00:36:02.600 I think it's undermined our curiosity in other people.

00:36:05.260 Yes.

00:36:05.480 And with that, I think a lot of assumptions are made.

00:36:10.160 A lot of people then fall into stereotypes.

00:36:12.640 And you miss so much potential, I think, especially for things that are very important,

00:36:18.700 like to me, such as intellectual curiosity and advancing ideas that can really unite people.

00:36:26.260 I think it's really undermined our potential as human beings now and really feeds into sort

00:36:34.460 of this age that we live in of, I think, a lot of decadence, a lot of decadent thinking

00:36:40.360 about how we are entitled to a lot of things, to a lot of people who actually don't conform

00:36:49.640 to our little boxed idea of who they are and what they are.

00:36:53.420 See, so there's a lot of people like me and others, you know, that would say problematic

00:37:00.660 boomers, probably is what you think.

00:37:02.740 You're a millennial, mate.

00:37:03.660 Mate.

00:37:04.020 Well, not to them.

00:37:04.940 I'm not.

00:37:05.240 No.

00:37:05.540 I'm a boomer.

00:37:07.280 Who have a, how can I put it, uncharitable view of the younger generations.

00:37:13.960 But I do feel a real empathy for your generation because the way the internet has been, you've

00:37:24.840 only known the age of the internet, really, and the effect that it's had on you.

00:37:29.200 So let's discuss what challenges are your generation facing and what are the problems

00:37:35.760 and how are they manifesting?

00:37:40.160 Well, I think the biggest problem I would say is that we don't have faith or belief in

00:37:49.280 the state.

00:37:51.340 We don't have faith or belief in the actual political processes around us of government.

00:37:56.600 We've really retreated into only believing in politics that pertains to identity and

00:38:04.000 very minuscule things.

00:38:06.700 And I think because of that, the things that we do suffer with that I think really sort of

00:38:12.700 build up and lead to a lot of our problems, such as in the UK, I would say housing crisis

00:38:18.000 is quite a big thing that inevitably is going to affect young people, Gen Z at some point.

00:38:24.660 Um, I think because of that and because we aren't as politically invested in what is going

00:38:34.380 on policy-wise, I think that is a problem.

00:38:39.000 That's a big problem.

00:38:41.320 And then I think it works vice versa.

00:38:43.320 I think government, especially in the UK, doesn't have much interest in young people.

00:38:47.880 We don't have any political power.

00:38:49.280 We don't own property.

00:38:51.200 A lot of you don't vote.

00:38:53.420 Yes.

00:38:53.900 Yes, yes, yes.

00:38:55.040 I think it's a two-way relationship of distrust and disinterest.

00:39:01.240 And I think once that's sorted out, if it is, I have faith that it can be.

00:39:05.960 I think a lot has to change, but I do have faith in younger generations.

00:39:13.220 I think in the next 10 or so years, I think once a lot of this, even now online, I'm starting

00:39:20.240 to see that a lot of people are becoming quite disenchanted at the promises of this particular

00:39:25.100 path towards finding ourselves through our identities, that it's not working and that

00:39:32.380 things aren't really being realised in society in the way that we imagined, especially with

00:39:38.340 everybody recognising our identities, our ideas about the world and what should happen with

00:39:44.880 the world.

00:39:46.260 Yeah.

00:39:47.660 The thing that worries me, Zee, is that you, as a generation, are very progressive,

00:39:54.480 whatever way you want to talk about it.

00:39:58.440 She gave a little interesting smile. 0.98

00:40:01.000 Do you agree with that assessment or not?

00:40:03.180 That my generation has worked?

00:40:04.540 Yeah.

00:40:04.720 Oh, yes, definitely.

00:40:05.440 Okay, cool.

00:40:06.300 Okay.

00:40:07.520 What worries me is that the generation who come after you are not going to be.

00:40:13.880 And in fact, there's going to be a backlash.

00:40:16.140 And what worries me is that the backlash ain't going to be pretty.

00:40:21.600 The girls, by the way, sorry to interject, just some data.

00:40:24.300 The girls are incredibly woke.

00:40:26.200 The boys, not so much.

00:40:29.320 Yes.

00:40:29.900 And to be fair, I do think that that is going to be what's going to stifle the backlash.

00:40:33.580 I think in the same way that woke hasn't worked out because it's based on a theory or a pseudo

00:40:41.980 philosophy that is very particular to very certain people and necessarily has to have

00:40:49.200 people who you are against, the anti-wokes, because there isn't sort of a united front or

00:40:57.700 sort of everybody believes in this or has the same language and understanding of things.

00:41:02.100 I think because everything's so fragmented, it can't go as far as it otherwise would.

00:41:08.680 I think with the backlash, which I would say is more so in, I think things happen in the

00:41:15.980 US and then sort of trickle down here.

00:41:17.700 I would say in the US it's happening now, especially online with, I'd say, far right thinking.

00:41:24.180 I'm just thinking of an intellectual online who's far right thinker called Bronze Age

00:41:31.560 Pervert.

00:41:32.580 I think the problem was sort of this.

00:41:34.120 Great name.

00:41:34.600 Why don't we call ourselves that?

00:41:36.640 Yes, he's got a very devout following of young people, especially young men, understandably,

00:41:48.000 but it's very much based in a particular kind of identity and philosophy of going back to

00:41:57.400 the ancients and this idea that our enemy is, of course, young women and women who need to be

00:42:05.200 subjugated.

00:42:06.180 And I think any idea that sort of involves subjugating of another group of people is not

00:42:12.520 going to go very far for very long.

00:42:14.260 So I think it's inevitably going to happen.

00:42:16.340 The pendulum is going to swing, but I don't think it's going to swing in such a dramatic

00:42:22.500 way that it's actually going to do anything.

00:42:28.340 What you're saying is young boys' desire to get laid is going to triumph over whatever bigoted

00:42:33.880 ideas they've been told on the internet.

00:42:36.840 Yes.

00:42:37.560 Yeah.

00:42:37.960 That makes sense.

00:42:38.840 You know what?

00:42:39.620 I've always said this, and this is true of various forms of feminism and it's true of 1.00

00:42:44.080 all sorts of red pill people and whatever.

00:42:47.100 Any ideology that seeks to divide men and women is always going to fail.

00:42:51.520 And it's just because you can't override that very basic thing that exists between men and 0.97

00:42:56.560 women, which is a force of attraction that's way stronger than any of this bullshit. 1.00

00:43:01.320 Hey guys, Trigonometry needs your help. 0.99

00:43:04.100 We took a big risk creating the show.

00:43:06.620 And for us to keep doing the incredible work that you all love, we need your support.

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00:43:23.160 next week you've got Aaron Bastani, the founder of Left Wing Show and Navarra Media, on the

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00:43:30.960 You know they've been caught lying again and again.

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00:44:18.360 Support us and help change the way we have conversations and make the world saner.

00:44:23.000 I'm curious because men and women is an interesting subject that you talk about in your videos as

00:44:29.580 well.

00:44:30.240 What's going on in that world that you want to talk to us about?

00:44:37.580 I think men and women today are so disconnected and in such different worlds that we have no

00:44:49.660 ability to do the thing that is so important to all relationships, I think, which is understanding

00:44:56.560 and empathy and forgiveness.

00:45:00.380 We are incredibly selfish and because of that, we are not finding the relationships which we want.

00:45:09.660 So there's this contradiction that men and women are living with.

00:45:14.280 I think women are handling it a lot better than men. 0.98

00:45:17.580 Young women are handling it a lot better than young men.

00:45:21.020 And how so?

00:45:23.580 Well, I think because this is the age, I think, of a woman finding themselves, finding some 0.99

00:45:31.940 form of at least political agency.

00:45:34.560 There's a lot more definitions of what it means to be a woman now.

00:45:39.400 It's really expanded.

00:45:40.940 Whereas for men, the idea of being a man and masculinity, not only has it not expanded,

00:45:47.180 and diversified, masculinity is toxic now.

00:45:51.020 But also there is no healthy option.

00:45:53.980 It's like being a man is toxic.

00:45:55.680 But if you want to be a good man, well, be like a woman. 1.00

00:45:58.660 Yeah.

00:45:59.100 Basically, that's and it's like, I'm not sure that's going to work.

00:46:03.120 Yes.

00:46:03.600 Talk about your feelings and be emotional.

00:46:05.820 It does not work for men. 0.69

00:46:06.700 No, no, no, no, it really doesn't.

00:46:09.100 And I think, especially now, at least since the 1950s, sort of the language of psychology

00:46:15.860 has really taken over in workplaces.

00:46:18.060 And now, especially on the internet, everybody is, you know, toxic boundaries, all these sorts

00:46:23.820 of things, all this sort of language and pop psychology that I think really resonates with

00:46:29.820 a lot of women and sort of how we experience the world and not so much with men who understandably

00:46:38.320 feel a lot of resentment.

00:46:40.420 And I think because there is just such a lack of empathy on both sides now, I think just

00:46:49.600 our society generally has become a lot less empathetic.

00:46:52.180 And I think it's just trickled down to younger people that we, especially women, don't feel

00:47:00.500 that they need men as much or as readily.

00:47:03.340 And I think men are also very impatient when it comes to women, when it comes to relationships,

00:47:10.860 when it comes to doing everything that they think that they ought to do by a certain age,

00:47:18.060 sort of by their mid-twenties, they sort of think that they're meant to be where their

00:47:21.700 fathers and grandfathers were, with a wife, a home, one kid on the way at least.

00:47:28.960 And that's obviously not happening.

00:47:31.400 Things are happening a lot later.

00:47:32.580 And I found that online young men don't appreciate that and are unable to appreciate that and

00:47:39.320 are also experiencing a crisis of their own identity.

00:47:42.920 And nobody cares, at least not really.

00:47:48.180 And there's nobody to sort of guide them exactly.

00:47:54.540 Well, no, no, there's Andrew Tate.

00:47:55.860 He'll guide you.

00:47:56.580 No problem.

00:47:57.560 All these people.

00:47:58.280 You see, I'm not saying that in approval of Andrew Tate one bit.

00:48:01.780 What I'm saying is something else, which is when you don't have healthy role models, this

00:48:06.020 is what's going to come up.

00:48:07.500 That's my point.

00:48:09.020 Yes.

00:48:09.600 Yes.

00:48:10.240 Yes.

00:48:10.480 Men definitely look for gods. 0.99

00:48:13.160 And without God, well, then you have to find some dirty gods.

00:48:16.240 Men look for role models and men look for inspiration and men look for motivation because men want

00:48:22.600 status, power, money, influence, whatever, all of that.

00:48:26.640 And if there's no healthy way of doing that, they're going to look to.

00:48:30.360 And the best example of this is what's happening in the city.

00:48:33.540 When you have young boys without role models, they are going to look to the gang members for that.

00:48:38.880 So, you know, Andrew Tate, we always say this, Andrew Tate is a symptom.

00:48:43.580 He's not a problem itself.

00:48:44.920 He's a symptom of the problem.

00:48:45.760 Oh, yes.

00:48:46.100 There's going to be another Andrew Tate.

00:48:47.460 There'll be loads of them.

00:48:48.300 There'll be loads of them.

00:48:49.200 And they will carry on happening until men have a healthy way of being men in society.

00:48:54.740 Yes.

00:48:55.140 And for women, they face really, really challenging times because if you look at social media, Instagram,

00:49:05.660 I mean, that's just the way designed to make women feel miserable about themselves, 1.00

00:49:09.860 their bodies and their lives, isn't it?

00:49:12.160 Definitely.

00:49:13.060 Definitely.

00:49:13.820 Yes.

00:49:14.440 I think the worst thing that could have ever happened to young girls is Instagram.

00:49:19.840 I think it's terrible.

00:49:21.620 It has caused so many mental health issues, especially in this country for young girls,

00:49:27.620 especially during the pandemic.

00:49:29.460 So, yes, I think being a woman now and being a young woman is very difficult, especially

00:49:36.200 in relation to a lot of the narrative online with these young male thought leaders who sort

00:49:43.700 of promote this masculinity that really depends on hating young women or seeing them as objects,

00:49:49.700 which then rarely sort of reduces everything that young women are told about, especially

00:49:58.300 now about sort of, you know, pursuing a career, working and you do that.

00:50:03.140 But then online, especially you're demonized for doing that because you're not having children

00:50:08.240 and you're not being the stereotypical housewife of the 50s.

00:50:13.920 So, yes, I think it's, I think even though there's more options of how to be a woman for

00:50:21.340 women, it's very hard to not care about what everybody else thinks you should be. 1.00

00:50:26.360 And women really take that a lot more to heart than I would say men do, especially young

00:50:33.780 women. 0.81

00:50:34.580 I think it definitely, I've noticed because I have friends who are a lot older, female 1.00

00:50:39.640 friends, it definitely, over time, it changes, but it is very much a process of becoming a

00:50:46.280 woman.

00:50:46.980 And I think right now, with our age where everyone is so impatient, we're very, very lazy.

00:50:54.500 Everything is on demand.

00:50:55.960 I think women and men both expect of each other to have it all sorted out, all figured out.

00:51:02.540 He has to be making 200k a year already.

00:51:06.300 She has to look like a bombshell and have plastic surgery already and somehow pop out like five 1.00

00:51:11.360 babies for me and still look hot.

00:51:13.720 And that, obviously, when you have just fantasies of people, reality is going to seem absolutely

00:51:21.700 terrible.

00:51:23.180 And so I think that's really, there's a disenchantment of young people and a disenchantment and a

00:51:28.860 disappointment with each other and what's on offer.

00:51:31.520 Of the opposite sex, especially. 1.00

00:51:35.200 Is this the reason why so many women now are having plastic surgery and they're having 1.00

00:51:39.580 Botox in their early 20s and lip fillers and all the rest of it?

00:51:45.100 Yes, I definitely say that's the reason.

00:51:46.900 I definitely think that it's trendy.

00:51:49.820 I think trends now have sort of become mini religions of their own.

00:51:55.380 I think it's something to follow for a time and then the next thing comes.

00:51:59.080 So it's getting a BBL or lip filler nose job.

00:52:05.140 They sort of come in waves.

00:52:06.940 And I think it's nice to feel a part of something.

00:52:11.000 And so a lot of women do these things. 1.00

00:52:13.300 But also, obviously, to try and look better than the next person on social media, to improve

00:52:19.420 upon yourself, to sort of work on yourself.

00:52:21.480 We sort of, I think, have become very desensitized from our human condition physically and anatomically.

00:52:30.160 And we sort of just see ourselves as sort of things to enhance and that that's somehow

00:52:36.180 going to make us feel better emotionally and psychologically, which most of the time it

00:52:41.780 doesn't.

00:52:42.200 It's so interesting that you say that, you know, that we're looking for happiness, all

00:52:48.700 of us.

00:52:49.400 But what you're really saying is we're just looking for it in the complete wrong place.

00:52:54.020 And that's really sad because it just means that people are miserable.

00:52:59.240 Yes, yes.

00:53:02.080 But the alternative is being brave and accepting your fate as a human being and accepting how

00:53:08.620 tragic the human condition is.

00:53:10.500 And that's very scary when I would say there isn't the hope for salvation on the other side.

00:53:18.440 It's sort of you've only got this life now and you want to make the best of it.

00:53:23.180 And so it's like live fast, die young.

00:53:25.080 Like, who cares?

00:53:25.840 It's very much, you know, I'm going to be the best version of myself.

00:53:30.940 But that's a good thing.

00:53:32.360 Being the best version of yourself is a good thing.

00:53:34.620 It depends on what you mean by best. 0.88

00:53:36.180 If having bigger boobs makes you the best version of yourself, then you've got a problem.

00:53:41.760 You know, the idea, I'm not a believer either, I struggle with, but anyway, you know, this idea

00:53:48.340 that life is finite can be a hugely empowering thing because it laser focuses your mind on like

00:53:54.900 I've only got one life.

00:53:57.240 I'm only living this one.

00:53:58.440 I'm never going to be here again.

00:53:59.620 So I might as well be honest, be brave, say what I mean, ask the question that no one wants to,

00:54:04.560 whatever it is, right, in this context.

00:54:06.760 It can be very empowering.

00:54:08.680 But if what the best means is that you're liked or more to the case, your photo is liked, 0.69

00:54:17.060 then let's fuck around with the photo, make it look perfect. 0.74

00:54:21.020 That's the best version of me.

00:54:23.020 So I think part of the problem you're talking about is our definition of what the best version

00:54:28.840 of you is has changed, has changed.

00:54:32.320 And the weird thing is, is what I find strange is that maybe it's because my generation,

00:54:39.160 millennials, we'll say broadly, although I'm an older millennial, it's like we were told,

00:54:43.540 you know, have a family, do this, get married, buy a house, buy all of this.

00:54:48.980 And we chafed against that, right?

00:54:52.100 And so your generation, no one even tries to tell you anything, I think. 0.70

00:54:55.800 No one tries to be like, do this, do that.

00:54:58.600 Even though actually, I wish my generation had been not told in forceful terms, do this

00:55:06.540 with, you know, with a jabbing finger, but more like, you know, life is about certain

00:55:11.780 things.

00:55:12.220 It's about having meaning and purpose in your life.

00:55:14.260 Now, what is, what do you think is going to give you that?

00:55:16.480 Well, part of that is going to be a fulfilling career, but part of that is going to be the

00:55:21.220 people around you.

00:55:22.100 And it may not be a wife and child, although it probably will be, but it may not be that.

00:55:27.920 But it's going to be the meaningful connections you have with other people around you.

00:55:31.060 And we were talking before we started, you know, we were joking around about what a post-woke

00:55:36.340 world looks like.

00:55:37.960 That's what I think it looks like.

00:55:39.560 It's a world in which you don't have crusty conservatives telling young people, well, this

00:55:44.740 is how you must live your life.

00:55:46.420 But it is a world in which young people do have access to the wisdom of generations.

00:55:51.660 Yes, definitely.

00:55:53.040 And the wisdom of generations is basically what I've just said, which is your life is about

00:55:57.380 meaning and purpose.

00:55:58.180 And it's about the people around you that you love and love you.

00:56:01.260 That's it, right?

00:56:02.300 It's pretty simple.

00:56:03.680 And every generation eventually comes there, just a question of how long it takes you to

00:56:07.740 get there.

00:56:08.720 And that's what I wonder, and I'm curious to hear your take, is how do we get to that point?

00:56:15.700 How do we get to the point where younger people have access to that wisdom without feeling like

00:56:21.360 it's being rammed down their throat by old people that they can't relate to? 1.00

00:56:26.080 It's a very interesting question.

00:56:31.060 I would say from my experience, the worst thing that I experience is when I would say, for

00:56:45.680 instance, older feminists online tell me that my life is empty and that I'm unhappy because 1.00

00:56:51.900 I'm, I don't have children or I'm not married.

00:56:56.980 And it's interesting because these are feminists who are sort of a new cohort of feminists who 1.00

00:57:01.780 are anti-progressive feminists.

00:57:05.320 People like Louise Perry and Mary Harrington, who we've had on the show.

00:57:08.200 Yes, yes.

00:57:08.660 Who we love, by the way.

00:57:09.700 Oh, yes.

00:57:10.180 And we love you too, but we love them.

00:57:11.860 We love everybody.

00:57:13.160 Yes, likewise, likewise.

00:57:14.460 But I don't think Louise O'Meary would ever say you're not happy because you're not married.

00:57:19.060 Yes, yes.

00:57:19.780 I wouldn't say that in their work, but when it comes to Twitter, for instance, which I

00:57:25.280 think is the place where most young people engage with this discourse.

00:57:29.560 Cultural ideas.

00:57:30.060 Yes, yes.

00:57:31.020 And I think on Twitter, people do say things that make you just want to grate your eyeballs.

00:57:36.860 Yes.

00:57:38.800 You remember it's Twitter though, right?

00:57:41.500 I do.

00:57:42.280 Yes, yes.

00:57:43.040 But I think a lot of young people don't realize that it's just Twitter.

00:57:46.600 Twitter is sort of, somebody described it as the marketplace of ideas now.

00:57:51.740 And that was quite horrifying.

00:57:55.020 But I think a lot of young people do actually see it as a place where real things happen.

00:58:00.380 And politicians obviously see the potential of Twitter somehow.

00:58:04.940 But I think, I think a lot of how we engage, I think there just is such a lack of understanding,

00:58:13.760 I would say, with older generations of how different the world is growing up and being

00:58:20.380 young today.

00:58:21.240 Let's change that.

00:58:22.320 What are the differences that they don't get about your generation?

00:58:26.380 That we're doing things just exactly how they do. 1.00

00:58:30.260 We are being as stupid as they were, except we have phones and smartphones. 0.99

00:58:34.600 And so we put it out to the world. 1.00

00:58:36.200 So it's not just our closest friends who see how stupid we are. 1.00

00:58:39.720 It's everybody in the world. 1.00

00:58:41.240 And everybody then judges you.

00:58:42.860 You go viral and your life is ruined.

00:58:45.200 Or you go viral and like, you know, you open an OnlyFans.

00:58:48.900 So it's a very different way of growing up and sort of being exposed to not just a small

00:58:59.660 group of people, but to a whole world of people.

00:59:02.920 I think when it comes to, for instance, relationships as well, I think older generations tend to see

00:59:10.340 dating apps as, well, there's so many more people now that you have just, you know, the

00:59:16.560 pick of the bunch.

00:59:17.420 So why is it so hard for you to find somebody?

00:59:20.220 Why is it so hard for you to, you know, find the perfect person?

00:59:24.120 And I think there is often just, it feels quite condescending a lot of the time, sort

00:59:29.880 of when older generations engage with younger generations.

00:59:32.960 And as a result, younger generations are not interested in older generations.

00:59:37.540 And I do think that our intergenerational divide is a very negative thing.

00:59:44.240 I think it's interesting comparing extended families or cultures where there's very strong

00:59:50.700 extended familial bonds, like in the Jewish community or in the South Asian community in

00:59:57.200 the UK, especially sort of looking at how that unfolds relative to the rest of the British

01:00:04.660 population.

01:00:05.200 So I do think, I do think we're speaking different languages and because everybody now, not just

01:00:16.060 the young people, I think it is specifically a problem with young people, but I think everybody

01:00:19.700 now thinks that they're an expert.

01:00:22.040 And because of that, there's no relinquishing.

01:00:26.540 There's no stepping back, listening to, sympathizing with, or trying to empathize with, especially

01:00:34.800 young people.

01:00:36.140 I'll hear so many conservatives like Candace Owens saying, you know, when I was 24, I was 1.00

01:00:41.320 doing such stupid things. 0.99

01:00:43.140 But then she'll say that young men shouldn't marry a 24-year-old woman because she spent her 1.00

01:00:48.560 day making shakshuka and not going out and getting married and popping out a baby.

01:00:52.600 So it's, I think there's just contradictions that now with young people being so better 0.99

01:01:00.620 educated than ever before, but also being very, very stupid at the same time, but thinking 0.99

01:01:07.920 they know everything. 1.00

01:01:08.740 And then having older generations who are actually just as messed up, have a lot of problems.

01:01:16.240 I mean, boomers, divorce rates are sort of quite tulling of, I think, a lot of issues

01:01:21.820 there as well.

01:01:25.480 Yeah, I think we just don't speak the same language.

01:01:27.560 And I think we just, nobody is extending the olive branch to the other.

01:01:33.800 Well, we've extended it to you, to boomers, invited you on the show. 0.91

01:01:37.540 Here we are.

01:01:38.660 Oh, yeah.

01:01:39.120 Thank you.

01:01:41.780 Thank you so much.

01:01:42.980 No, no, that's not what I meant.

01:01:44.800 What I'm saying is I'm keen to foster dialogue, actually.

01:01:47.980 I think it's very important.

01:01:48.940 I think it's important that people from different groups and backgrounds and whatever talk to

01:01:52.360 each other and understand where everybody's coming from.

01:01:55.140 And I think, you know, Francis, I have a lot less empathy just by nature.

01:01:59.880 I'm not a very empathetic person, but I think it's not easy.

01:02:03.200 I can't imagine growing up, I can't imagine not growing up, I'm trying to, basically growing

01:02:10.420 up in a world in which the internet exists is not something I experienced.

01:02:13.560 And compared to what people are experiencing now, I think that was bliss.

01:02:19.540 Yeah.

01:02:19.900 I really do.

01:02:20.440 Definitely.

01:02:21.280 And I'm also, for my generation, an exception because in South Africa, I didn't have internet

01:02:26.660 or phone.

01:02:28.380 So when I came here, suddenly this whole world opened up to me. 0.99

01:02:33.100 And so I don't have sort of a whole catalogue of my stupidity on the internet. 0.95

01:02:39.360 And so I couldn't imagine what it would have been like to have been exposed to Instagram, 0.95

01:02:47.560 to YouTube, to all of those things, to TikTok now.

01:02:52.320 And also you sort of have to go along with it, especially as a young person in order to

01:02:57.840 be a part of something, in order not to miss out on everything that's going on.

01:03:01.920 And I think everything is, a lot of young people's sort of actions are driven by fear, ultimately,

01:03:08.780 fear of, just fear of not knowing what's going on, fear of being left behind, of not fitting

01:03:16.000 in, but also of being too normal, that you sort of fade into oblivion, especially online.

01:03:23.540 So, yeah.

01:03:24.460 It's been a wonderful conversation, Zee.

01:03:27.020 Thank you so much for coming on the show.

01:03:28.720 So before we move on to our section with locals and the questions that they're going

01:03:33.440 to ask, which only they get to see, we'll finish with our final question, which is, what's

01:03:37.520 the one thing we're not talking about as a society that we really should be?

01:03:41.340 I think we're not talking enough about the need for, I would say, an intellectual movement

01:03:55.660 that isn't based on identity, something that really is all-encompassing of all people.

01:04:03.040 I think we focus way too much on the wrongdoings of people's sort of actions.

01:04:10.260 And I think we've really fallen out of touch with, I think, one of the most important things,

01:04:16.920 in my opinion, which is philosophy and the importance of philosophy and learning and understanding

01:04:23.480 yourself through the ideas of other people throughout the ages.

01:04:29.360 I think young people really need to be reading more philosophy.

01:04:34.120 And so I think that is one thing we're not really talking about, I think, definitely.

01:04:40.080 You're going to struggle with that.

01:04:41.740 Yeah.

01:04:42.360 You're going to struggle with that.

01:04:43.540 I don't know.

01:04:44.460 Most people aren't going to read philosophy, which is where we come back to the idea of religion.

01:04:51.280 Some people just want, you know, the commandments.

01:04:54.220 They don't want the book, you know.

01:04:56.400 So I've been thinking about that a lot myself.

01:05:00.600 Philosophy is great.

01:05:01.580 It really is.

01:05:02.080 It's fascinating.

01:05:02.820 It's interesting.

01:05:03.400 But I don't know that all of this gets sorted by people reading more philosophy.

01:05:08.520 I think it's a start.

01:05:09.820 I think this all takes a lot of time.

01:05:11.340 And I think patience is the most important thing that we really do lack now in all spheres.

01:05:16.000 I think we want quick fix solutions to a lot of things.

01:05:18.440 And I think we need to go back and we need to understand why we are where we are.

01:05:24.780 And that's going to take a long time and a lot of patience and a lot of forgiveness of other people.

01:05:33.360 And yes, it's going to be challenging, but it will be worth it at the end.

01:05:38.640 I have hope, but we'll see.

01:05:44.120 We will see.

01:05:45.220 Before we head over, your YouTube channel is Codology.

01:05:47.800 People should check it out.

01:05:48.720 And of course, I want to ask you actually, because we've talked very briefly about woke and anti-woke.

01:05:55.240 And I have a sense you have some interesting opinions about that.

01:05:57.660 So I will ask you about that.

01:05:59.620 But on Locals, head on over there and we'll continue the conversation, including asking your questions.

01:06:05.380 She describes herself as a femcel, female incel.

01:06:09.980 Is that true?

01:06:11.060 Yeah.

01:06:11.680 Okay.

01:06:14.020 Yes. 1.00

01:06:16.080 What the fuck are you talking about? 1.00

TRIGGERnometry - October 04, 2023

Critical Race Theory Made Me Miserable - Zandile Powell from Kidology

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