TRIGGERnometry - Dan Wootton - Will Harry and Meghan Destroy the Royal Family？

00:00:00.000 I don't believe any of the coverage of Meghan has anything to do with her race.

00:00:06.200 Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

00:00:07.800 It's a narrative that she has created.

00:00:11.020 And it's a narrative that a lot of people sadly create now

00:00:13.840 in order to try and make them immune from criticism.

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00:01:40.000 look we've we've done the lockdown covid doom and gloom let's talk about something more

00:01:50.800 light-hearted because you're a big fan of the celeb goss you love a bit of the royals as well

00:01:55.400 megan and harry and this please forgive me for what will sound quite rightly as a slightly

00:02:02.100 snobby question really yeah from me it's very unusual but why why do people care about that

00:02:08.540 sort of stuff because you you love it and you're very good at covering it and when i'm on your show

00:02:12.480 with we talk about it and there's always a you know with with harry and megan there's there's a

00:02:16.440 bit of a political angle which we can talk about in a sec well why do people care about this sort

00:02:20.420 of stuff more generally well it's interesting because you say i care and i obviously do care

00:02:24.620 to a degree i i would say that the last couple of years has changed where i'm at though because

00:02:32.360 obviously i was very in a celebrity focused world and i think a lot of people probably over the

00:02:37.960 course the pandemic have reconsidered what's important and what we care about but obviously

00:02:43.800 as a culture we care significantly about celebrities and about the royal family and

00:02:50.340 i don't think there's anything wrong or shameful about that and actually you know one thing that i

00:02:56.120 want to do with my show on gb news and it's something that i always would do at the sun

00:03:00.580 as well as acknowledge that we can cover lots of different news and you don't demean something

00:03:08.660 by also covering something that actually people are talking about. Because what is news? What is

00:03:13.040 news? News is what people are talking about. So, you know, the Kardashians ending their

00:03:18.560 e-reality show is news. You know, that is big news. They have changed pop culture. They have

00:03:24.340 changed the way that we consume social media. They've genuinely changed the way a generation

00:03:29.460 behaves so them ending that show to me is really significant news the royal family obviously you're

00:03:37.540 completely right they take on a different dimension because everything they do is history

00:03:43.220 it's history you know and it will be written about for decades and centuries to come because of the

00:03:52.560 cultural structure we have in this country. And obviously, it's been an absolutely torrid and 1.00

00:04:00.280 unprecedented time, the most unprecedented time for the royal family since the death of Princess

00:04:05.660 Diana in 1997. And certainly for me as a teenager, when Princess Diana died, I was 14. I mean,

00:04:12.660 you know, there are two news stories that I feel like define my teenage years. And obviously,

00:04:17.600 one is 9-11 and the other is the death of princess diana you know it was such a moment for this

00:04:24.120 country and such a moment in culture as well and it absolutely changed culture it changed

00:04:29.280 uh our relationship with celebrities and and the royals but also changed how we are as brits because

00:04:39.520 her death brought out a whole other sort of idea of expressing public emotion and feelings. And I

00:04:50.280 think, if anything, it was sort of the end of the British stiff upper lip. And then, of course,

00:04:54.220 you have Harry and Meghan. And what they represent, I think, is the woke culture coming

00:05:02.640 to the royal family and my god it has been a culture clash like like none other it's interesting

00:05:10.760 that you say that for me I think the reason that people latched on to it so much is because it

00:05:15.880 represented the generational divide you have the divide of you know the queen philip duty country

00:05:22.460 etc etc you put your role before yourself and then you have the woke which is you know it's about my

00:05:29.600 feelings it's about how I see the world it's about protecting myself keeping myself safe

00:05:34.120 and the two just they just don't fit do they no of course not of course not and Megan was a

00:05:41.440 celebrity I mean not a huge celebrity but she was a c-list actress but the point is she understood

00:05:49.920 the power of the media she understood the power of social media she absolutely understood the power

00:05:55.480 of celebrity and she came in and blew it up she she she blew it up she didn't care about royal 1.00

00:06:03.600 tradition I she said all of the right things at the start but her behavior behind the scenes and

00:06:08.760 of course I was covering it very very closely and it was a fascinating period for me because

00:06:14.900 obviously I'd been when Megan entered the royal family I'd just been editing the bizarre column

00:06:19.580 which is the big celebrity showbiz column at The Sun and I'd left that and Megan entered and it was

00:06:26.580 this fusion between royalty and celebrity so it was I was sort of perfectly placed really because I

00:06:32.880 knew Megan's story and I knew people who knew Megan and I knew what sort of person she was and

00:06:39.500 I knew how fame hungry she was and I knew all about her and to see her enter the royal family

00:06:45.700 the royal family just literally unable to cope was just fascinating it was fascinating and you

00:06:52.280 know I broke story after story about it and people cared you know people cared and obviously it

00:06:59.780 culminated in me uh breaking the story of Megsit and you know she they released their statement

00:07:09.340 announcing they were leaving the royal family about you know eight hours after I'd broken

00:07:14.520 the story so it was it was a crazy barrier and dan so we're talking about the royal family we're

00:07:20.360 talking about megxit we're also talking about the escapades of prince andrew are we seeing the slow

00:07:27.600 death of the royal family because i think for myself once the queen dies that's a major question

00:07:32.720 we're going to ask ourselves as a nation what is what is the purpose of this family yeah guys we're

00:07:38.160 going to cheer up this episode after 40 minutes of lockdown by talking about the sovereign dying

00:07:42.440 No, I really don't think we're witnessing the death of the royal family, but I do think the

00:07:46.340 royal family is in crisis. I don't think it's an existential crisis, but I think it's a crisis

00:07:51.940 and it's a big crisis. And the publication of Prince Harry's book next year is a bomb that is

00:08:00.120 about to go off and everyone knows it. Prince Charles knows it. Prince William knows it. Camilla

00:08:04.800 knows it. And it's going to be very significant. It's going to be very, very significant. And I

00:08:10.620 don't think he could bring the royal family down but he could do more damage to the royal family

00:08:15.400 is he going to name the royal racist what's he going to say about his relationship with camilla

00:08:19.340 what's he going to say about his dad and it's obviously very different to the situation with

00:08:23.860 princess diana because princess diana wanted to bring her husband down and she wanted to bring 0.96

00:08:27.960 camilla down but she didn't want to bring the royal family down and the institution down

00:08:32.160 and i sent something quite different with harry and megan there's something quite republican

00:08:38.560 about their actions and that's really quite disturbing because what the royal family is

00:08:47.580 they have no idea what's coming they have no way to control this couple and prince harry knows

00:08:55.620 everything and i don't get the sense that he wants to hold back in this book i i mean i know

00:09:03.140 i've obviously reported on them very closely over the past couple of years my expectation is that

00:09:08.680 um they'll be very careful not to say anything that could look offensive to the queen or prince

00:09:14.180 philip but outside of that i think um it's game on gloves are off gloves so so you you talk about

00:09:22.220 knowing meg people who know megan and being familiar with so what's the dynamics there like

00:09:27.660 because people talk about she's come in and she's kind of taken him to a different place mentally

00:09:33.560 or sort of almost taken advantage like what's the dynamics there in your opinion well look i've

00:09:39.160 always said i don't believe you can blame megan you know harry's the prince isn't he harry's the

00:09:44.500 prince he's the one that had all of the power i don't think you can blame megan she's had a huge

00:09:49.620 influence on him she's clearly a very manipulative human being and uh she's got him and I think look 1.00

00:09:58.260 I I judge people a bit I know everyone's situation is different but I do judge people a bit based on

00:10:06.240 who's in their life from their childhood both in terms of family and and friends and school

00:10:12.920 friends and I know in my life so I just think about me you know my family and my friends from

00:10:17.480 school are everything to me because they know me better than anyone else and my goodness they would

00:10:23.300 be the first people I would have at my wedding at any cost you know and Megan had her mum she had 0.92

00:10:28.780 her mum and every other person who was with her at that wedding were friends that she had made

00:10:35.700 post becoming famous in suits you know so the PR for Burberry and the membership manager at Soho

00:10:44.220 house you know that's that's a very particular type of human being isn't it and you know I've

00:10:50.740 got to know Megan's sister Samantha and she's had a lot of flack but I got to know her very early on

00:10:57.820 and what I would say is that everything that Samantha was saying and at the time remember

00:11:02.700 she was just accused of being a troll you know but everything that Samantha warned has turned

00:11:08.960 out to be true you know don't let her in harry she's going to tear you away from your own family

00:11:14.700 and that's what's happened that's what's happened you know harry doesn't have a connection with his

00:11:20.420 own family now apart from his grandmother really and megan doesn't have a connection with her own

00:11:25.500 family apart from her mother so i mean it's a fascinating dynamic it's a fascinating story

00:11:33.140 at the end of the day they can do what they want now but why do they still have HRH titles I don't

00:11:41.740 get that I just that's what I don't get why does Meghan release a book and say Meghan the Duchess

00:11:47.580 of Sussex you know if she meant what she says about not caring about the royal family wanting

00:11:55.140 to be her own person wanting to be a modern feminist then surely it should be Meghan Markle 1.00

00:12:01.000 That's what I don't get, that everything they do

00:12:04.780 trades off the royal family.

00:12:06.500 It's a very weird dichotomy.

00:12:08.840 Do you think that the criticism of Meghan was based in racism?

00:12:13.600 Because there's a lot of people who go, look, right,

00:12:15.720 you can say what you like about Meghan.

00:12:17.920 She hasn't done anything illegal.

00:12:20.500 And then you look at Prince, you know, allegedly,

00:12:23.400 with his best mate Epstein flying around the world.

00:12:26.480 Why is he not receiving more criticism?

00:12:28.740 Well, I have very strong feelings on this.

00:12:32.540 So let me tackle, there's sort of two things.

00:12:34.540 So I'll tackle Andrew and then the racism, if that's okay.

00:12:37.340 So Prince Andrew, the media, and I get it all the time.

00:12:40.940 People say to me, why are you not covering Andrew as much as Meghan?

00:12:44.780 It's like, well, number one, I have.

00:12:47.200 And number two, without the media,

00:12:50.380 specifically my old newspaper, The News of the World,

00:12:52.720 which spent weeks and weeks exposing Prince Andrew's relationship

00:12:57.580 with Jeffrey Epstein. Without the media, there would be absolutely no knowledge of what Prince

00:13:03.380 Andrew did with Jeffrey Epstein. Nothing. Every single revelation about Prince Andrew has been

00:13:09.880 entirely driven by British newspapers. So the News of the World, the Mail on Sunday, the Sun

00:13:16.700 primarily. And for a long time, the establishment and the royal family just wanted to ignore that

00:13:22.420 story. They just wanted it to go away. There was no desire to bring down Prince Andrew. It was only

00:13:28.200 reporting from British newspapers that exposed the story in the first place. And then, of course,

00:13:34.360 it was the catastrophic car crash interview by the BBC with Prince Andrew that actually forced

00:13:40.160 the Queen's hand and finally got him sacked from the royal family. So this idea that the British 0.87

00:13:46.120 media has somehow tried to protect Prince Andrew, it's just laughably untrue. And you can probably

00:13:52.260 talent makes me really angry because it's a narrative that's used by Megan supporters and

00:13:57.800 it's just so wrong uh the second point on the racism I'm also really passionate about because

00:14:04.300 I covered that wedding and you know I was there at at Windsor and I've never seen other than the

00:14:13.780 2012 Olympics. I've genuinely never seen the country more united or happy or more celebratory.

00:14:24.280 Oh my God, we got behind Meghan. The British public loved this woman. We totally embraced

00:14:29.980 the idea of a multicultural royal family. The whole country stopped that day for their wedding.

00:14:36.520 There were street parties. You know, I remember going to one after the wedding. Everyone was on

00:14:42.000 cloud nine. The newspapers ran page after page after page about how incredible Meghan was,

00:14:48.560 about the potential impact that she would have on the royal family. You know, Meghan never wanted 0.79

00:14:54.460 it to work. She never wanted it to work. And she always was trying to construct a narrative

00:15:01.740 of racist coverage of her. And I find it craven and weird and sad because it doesn't exist.

00:15:08.700 you know literally people point to one headline about avocados and one headline that referenced

00:15:16.400 that movie what is it you know um compton you know um straight out of compton referring to the

00:15:22.860 fact that she was from a particular area and actually if you go and read that article i think

00:15:28.040 it was by rachel johnson you know boris johnson's sister it was actually a broadly positive article

00:15:32.260 So I'm sorry, find me the racist coverage.

00:15:35.960 It doesn't exist.

00:15:37.160 It's a narrative created by Harry and Meghan.

00:15:41.180 It's manipulative because remember, I mean,

00:15:44.880 and I'm not saying this is necessarily right,

00:15:47.580 but huge amount of negative press about Kate Middleton.

00:15:52.580 I remember it.

00:15:53.140 You know, this is the point I always make.

00:15:54.720 Wasty Katie. 0.92

00:15:55.300 Yeah, well, I remember, yeah, that.

00:15:57.140 And also I can't remember, and I don't want to get it wrong

00:15:59.260 because of the libel laws that you talked about,

00:16:01.060 but some tabloid journalist on Question Time talking about coverage of her

00:16:07.040 and sort of this is way back when.

00:16:10.120 But he said literally, and I remember this because even I was slightly

00:16:13.460 like taken aback and shocked.

00:16:14.920 He went, look, all she needs to do, right, is go out there, 1.00

00:16:17.340 show a bit of leg.

00:16:18.740 And I was like, she was getting slammed pretty hard

00:16:22.040 just for like trying to have some semblance of a private life.

00:16:24.940 Yeah, and there's a history of this in terms of female, 1.00

00:16:28.640 outsider females entering the royal family princess diana i mean hardly an outsider but

00:16:33.840 but you know what i'm saying she wasn't a member of the royal family uh sarah ferguson fergie

00:16:38.600 coverage of her absolutely brutal duchess of pork you know negative headline after negative headline 1.00

00:16:44.880 sophie wessex you know exposed by the news of the world and a sting by the fake shake

00:16:51.160 all of these princesses that enter the royal family got bad coverage so look i'm not defending

00:16:56.480 that maybe we need to have a broader look about how we treat females entering the royal family

00:17:01.080 as a society but to claim that it's racism because the same thing happened to megan is just wrong

00:17:09.200 and actually you know being there reporting it for the whole time it took a long time before any

00:17:14.700 negative reporting happened about megan i probably was one of the journalists that started it but it

00:17:22.280 was based on her behaviour. So I broke, and it was very difficult to do at the time,

00:17:29.420 because all of the coverage of Meghan had been positive, this is a thing, but I broke

00:17:32.980 a story, and it became known as Tiara Gate, and it might look small in the scheme of things now,

00:17:39.120 but at the time it was very significant, because I was the first person to break that basically

00:17:44.080 the Queen had warned Harry about Meghan's behaviour and it had all come from this bust

00:17:51.820 up before the wedding about Meghan wanting to wear a particular tiara which the Queen 0.56

00:17:56.300 didn't want to lend her, which feels very royal and ridiculous, doesn't it? But within

00:18:01.640 that story, I also revealed that Kate and Meghan had fallen out over the way that Meghan 0.97

00:18:09.060 was speaking to staff at Kensington Palace. And we now know there were bullying claims against her

00:18:15.620 on the record to the HR team at the Royal Family. I mean, the point that I'm making is

00:18:19.660 these are not stories constructed by the media. You know, the media was reporting what was going

00:18:25.180 on behind the scenes. And it actually took many, many months for us to uncover what was going on.

00:18:31.140 And I think there's a lot that was going on that still hasn't been reported on because

00:18:35.720 the bar that you have to reach to report on the goings-on behind the scenes of the royal family

00:18:43.460 is very high, you know, it's very high because you're under a lot of pressure as a journalist

00:18:47.560 if you get anything wrong connected to the royal family. So yeah, so that's a very long-winded way

00:18:54.840 of saying I don't believe any of the coverage of Meghan has anything to do with her race.

00:19:01.220 nothing absolutely nothing it's a narrative that she has created and it's a narrative that a lot

00:19:07.680 of people sadly create now in order to try and make them um immune from criticism which i think

00:19:16.220 is quite dangerous is it not it is it is very very very dangerous because it'd be like me saying

00:19:21.900 you can't criticize me because i'm gay because if you criticize me it must be homophobic

00:19:27.720 that's literally where megan is at but it's a tool of choice as we now know for quite a lot

00:19:34.380 of people and what's interesting to me uh i am not someone who's paid almost any attention to

00:19:39.740 to this stuff but i mean let's start with the fact i am darker than megan markle right so the

00:19:47.860 idea that people are you know i remember that wedding and i actually remember thinking this

00:19:52.000 is a bit over the top here to be honest how we were just like obsessing about this wedding and

00:19:56.660 blah, blah, blah. It looked to me like she got pretty good coverage, but quite a few people

00:20:01.280 actually, you know, lost jobs or, or got into trouble by making the comments that you've just

00:20:08.260 made. And I don't think you will now, but there was a moment in time where I think Piers Morgan

00:20:13.260 got in and God knows I disagree with Piers Morgan and a lot of stuff, but he got into a lot of

00:20:17.640 trouble in my view, unfairly. Lawrence Fox got into a lot of trouble for again, making the same

00:20:22.180 point like why why was there this just desire to tear down anyone who made the point that you just

00:20:28.640 made well yeah I think because the narrative became that if you were criticizing Meghan

00:20:33.400 Markle you were racist and Piers accused her of lying in the Oprah interview and it was particularly

00:20:42.420 hot and heightened because ITV had become a big proponent of mental health which is very ironic

00:20:50.900 given the way that they treat people.

00:20:53.680 But anyway, that's a whole other story.

00:20:55.360 But that'd become a big public proponent of mental health.

00:20:59.100 A lawyer just breathed out a sigh of relief, mate.

00:21:02.380 Yeah, I'll go into that another time.

00:21:04.100 But, you know, it's provable that Meghan told a number of lies

00:21:12.740 during the Oprah interview.

00:21:14.500 It's provable.

00:21:15.660 And Pears lost his job or he left because he refused to apologise.

00:21:20.900 after Meghan directly complained, we believe, to the chief executive of ITV.

00:21:26.720 And, you know, what?

00:21:28.380 Do we live in a world where, because you're a princess

00:21:31.560 and because you're a mixed-race princess 1.00

00:21:33.800 and because you claim you've suffered from mental health issues,

00:21:36.580 we believe anything you say?

00:21:39.500 I mean, isn't the job of journalists to expose public figures

00:21:45.140 telling fibs and porcupines?

00:21:48.320 No.

00:21:49.340 Not anymore.

00:21:50.540 Not anymore, Dan. And on that wonderfully upbeat note, thank you so much for coming on the show.

00:21:55.740 We're going to be asking some locals questions. But our last question is always, what's the one

00:22:01.000 thing we're not talking about, but we really should be? Well, I think this is probably quite

00:22:05.940 a curveball based on everything we've been talking about during the show, because it's

00:22:09.360 not related to any of it. But I think it is about tech addiction. I'm absolutely convinced it's going

00:22:17.000 to become one of the most important stories over the next 20 years I think I'm addicted to my phone

00:22:25.500 right in a way that is genuinely quite scary and I think for young people that have grown up

00:22:33.420 literally from two years old not doing anything other than touching technology from the moment

00:22:42.720 they wake up to the moment they go to bed, there's going to be a whole load of mental health and

00:22:49.080 societal challenges around that. And we just don't talk about it, do we? But everything now that we

00:22:54.440 need in our life is contained very often in a phone. And it's breaking down lots of social

00:23:01.820 interaction in society. It's causing lots of relationship difficulties. And yeah, I think

00:23:08.080 tech addiction is something that I mean you you see companies like Apple sort of are aware that

00:23:14.240 this is going to become a big issue which is why they've introduced things like screen time where

00:23:19.080 they tell you how much time you've spent on your phone but I see it doesn't stop me doing it you

00:23:24.380 know just because I know I'm addicted it doesn't mean I'm not addicted do you see what I mean and

00:23:28.760 and I think it's going to become a huge issue for the big tech companies and also social media as

00:23:36.780 well because all of them play in play into each other so how do we still use technology and harness

00:23:43.960 the brilliance of technology without losing the importance of human interaction and and what that

00:23:50.680 brings us all and I think especially with the pandemic and having people especially young

00:23:57.400 people locked up at home for the past two years I think uh the ramifications from it are huge and

00:24:02.680 I think it's going to be a big story to come.

00:24:04.720 But at the moment, it's just not being covered.

00:24:07.500 Dan, thank you so much for coming on the show.

00:24:09.540 Ironically, if people want to find you online,

00:24:11.460 where would be the best place?

00:24:13.300 Probably via my social media.

00:24:15.340 So I'm at Dan Wooten on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram.

00:24:19.700 And of course, your GB News show reminds people where...

00:24:22.000 Yeah, and GB News Tonight Live is on 9pm till midnight,

00:24:26.600 Monday to Thursday.

00:24:27.540 And of course, Constantine, you're with me every Thursday night.

00:24:29.660 so if you're a fan of trigonometry and you want a bit extra dose of constant tea you've got to

00:24:34.600 join us on thursday and gb news you can download the app wherever you are in the world as well so

00:24:38.280 you don't even have to be in the uk and it's free fantastic dan thanks so much for coming on thank

00:24:43.060 you and thank you for watching at home and listening at home we will see you very soon

00:24:47.100 with another brilliant episode like this one or a raw show all of them go out 7 p.m uk time which

00:24:52.860 is 2 p.m eastern take care and see you soon see you soon guys we hope you've enjoyed this

00:24:59.080 incredible interview remember to subscribe and hit the bell button so that you never miss

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TRIGGERnometry - August 04, 2021

Dan Wootton - Will Harry and Meghan Destroy the Royal Family？

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