TRIGGERnometry - Dave Rubin： Don't Ban This Interview

00:00:00.000 Hello, and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster.

00:00:08.240 I'm Constantine Kissin.

00:00:09.720 And this is the show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.

00:00:15.160 Our brilliant guest this week is the host of The Rubin Report. Dave Rubin, welcome to Trigonometry.

00:00:20.160 It's good to be with you guys. You know, the alliteration in both of your names means that

00:00:24.460 you will succeed as podcasters, radio people, YouTubers, whatever it is that we're all doing.

00:00:30.920 Those are perfect names. I think we'll do very well. And I'm very fortunate that my middle name

00:00:36.040 doesn't begin with a K because given the reputation you get for talking about any of the issues we're

00:00:41.100 going to talk about, you don't want to have three K's in your name. It probably goes without saying

00:00:46.000 that we're all white supremacists anyway. So let's just let it be. Well, let's get straight

00:00:50.880 into the white supremacy then. Dave, I said you're the host of The Rubin Report, which of course is

00:00:55.600 how people will know you, but you've got your new book out, which is right next to you behind your

00:01:00.060 left shoulder. Don't burn this book. We've both read it. Fascinating stuff. Just tell everybody

00:01:04.800 a little bit of why did you write the book, Dave? Yeah, well, as I mentioned in chapter one,

00:01:09.240 when I signed the deal for the book, which is a couple of years ago already, I was originally

00:01:13.380 going to write Why I Left the Left, and that's a title of a PragerU video that I did a couple

00:01:17.960 years ago that has something like 20 million views. And, you know, I've become sort of the

00:01:23.020 poster child for the people that are leaving the left, the people that are realizing that leftism

00:01:28.700 as it stands, progressivism, democratic socialism, socialism, collectivism, whatever you want to

00:01:34.540 call this new postmodern set of ideas that seems to have infected our democratic party and really

00:01:40.360 worldwide lefty politics all over the place, that it has nothing to do with liberalism.

00:01:45.700 And i've gone out of my way for the last couple years to try to separate those two ideas and i'm happy to discuss that

00:01:52.160 Uh further with you guys, but basically that was the book I was going to write and after a couple weeks of writing it

00:01:57.200 I was kind of like, you know, i've said all this before and I don't like

00:02:00.680 I don't like the idea of writing a book that's about things that i'm against

00:02:04.800 I want to write a book about things that i'm for so I went back to the guys at penguin random house and I said

00:02:10.180 Hey, I know we signed this deal here, but i'd really rather do this

00:02:14.040 talk about free thinking, talk about classically liberal principles, talk about why people are so

00:02:20.840 afraid of saying what they think, you know, in a time like right now in 2020, where, you know,

00:02:26.020 for America, for all her flaws, it's a pretty great, spectacular, free nation. It still is,

00:02:32.700 as are most Western nations, by the way. And they immediately said, yeah, we want you to do what you

00:02:38.200 want to do. And that's sort of what changed the book. And what's interesting for me right now is,

00:02:43.240 we're taping this sort of beginning of June of 2020. I finished writing this book in July of

00:02:48.420 2019, so 11 months ago. And then the publishing process just takes a long time. So you have to

00:02:54.220 edit for a while. But basically, I stopped touching the book in terms of editing and everything else

00:02:59.140 in November of last year. It didn't get released till April of this year. And yet everything that

00:03:04.920 I write about in that book is exactly what we're all grappling with right now, watching the left

00:03:11.060 go off the deep end, watching the last few liberals unable to sort of stop it from happening

00:03:17.060 because they're either being silenced or logic and reason just doesn't play to this

00:03:20.940 new lefty crew. Some interesting alliances happening on the right with sort of disaffected

00:03:26.180 lefties and libertarians and conservatives. And maybe more than anything else, that good people

00:03:31.500 are just afraid to say what they think. I mean, that really is the driving point of the book.

00:03:35.960 And as we watch, you know, J.K. Rowling get attacked on Twitter in the last couple of days for basically saying that we should admit that there are biological sex differences, which we all know, or Drew Brees, who had to apologize for saying all lives matter, which, of course, all lives matter and police lives matter.

00:03:53.680 And that's not to say black lives don't matter.

00:03:55.520 I mean, things that we all know are true, and yet the mob comes and attacks these people, and that keeps good people silent. And I just don't want good people to be silent, even if you disagree with me, which is what I say at the end of the book.

00:04:06.440 You don't have to agree with the 10 or 12 policy positions that I lay out in the book.

00:04:12.820 But I hope you'll realize that I've thought them through thoroughly to get there.

00:04:16.440 And then if you do the same, if you use logic and reason and facts and come to different

00:04:21.040 conclusions, so for example, abortion is a big one that I hold a different position than

00:04:25.740 most of my conservative friends.

00:04:27.380 But if you come to that position honestly and forthrightly, great.

00:04:31.720 Let's live in a country with people that have different opinions.

00:04:34.300 Do you know, Dave, when I see your journey and when I was reading the book and I'm seeing my own, we shared a lot of the same thing. So I form a school teacher, then became a comedian, lefty liberal all the way through. And slowly I've watched my own side degenerate into lunacy. When was the moment for you where you thought, you know what, I can't do this anymore?

00:04:57.000 So I lay out three cases in the book or three moments in the book where I really saw like the craziness of the left.

00:05:08.540 I'll do one of them for you now, because I think that'll probably get us into a lot of the things that are happening these days.

00:05:13.700 So I was on air at the Young Turks. And as you guys know, the Young Turks is a progressive, I would say, far left socialist YouTube channel.

00:05:21.240 I would say they've gone further in that direction since I left a couple of years ago.

00:05:24.620 but I was on their channel. And remember, I was a Bernie supporter of the whole thing. You can

00:05:29.120 find videos. I'm supporting Bernie Sanders, who I now know has basically the worst set of ideas

00:05:34.480 possible. But we were on air and we were critiquing Fox News, which is what almost everyone on the

00:05:39.400 left does all day long. Instead of coming up with their own good ideas, they watch Fox News all day

00:05:45.120 and then they just sort of wait to find something that they said so that they can spend hours

00:05:49.580 talking about it. And as I said earlier, I didn't want to write a book about things that I'm against.

00:05:53.260 I want to write things that I'm for. Sadly, the left seems to always position itself,

00:05:56.960 especially in a day of Trump. They're always positioning themselves on whatever it is,

00:06:01.180 the reverse of Trump, that's what we're for. But that's not a position. That just means you're

00:06:05.680 going to take almost any position. And by the way, I think that's Trump's greatest gift,

00:06:09.440 is he can get all his opponents to take any position that he wants. If Trump said,

00:06:14.060 open borders tomorrow, they'd all be for a wall. So in effect, we were watching a clip on Fox News,

00:06:19.820 And there was a guy by the name of David Webb, who was, I believe, on Hannity.

00:06:26.020 And David happens to be a black conservative.

00:06:29.000 Now, I say happens to be because you're not going to believe this, but I believe black

00:06:32.440 people can hold all sorts of political opinions, including black conservatives, there are black

00:06:38.900 libertarians, there are black anarchists.

00:06:41.200 This is all very problematic, Dave.

00:06:43.140 I'm out, mate.

00:06:43.700 I'm out.

00:06:44.140 I can't take it.

00:06:45.220 I know, I know.

00:06:46.180 It's a litany of racism and misogyny.

00:06:49.820 Um, anyway, we're watching this clip of him and, you know, he's talking about basic conservative

00:06:56.100 principles and they're calling him an uncle Tom and a grifter and a sellout and all of these

00:07:01.260 things. And what they didn't know, my co-host was that David Webb and I are friends. I had had a

00:07:08.060 show on Sirius XM radio years before, and I was a lefty and he was on the right, but we met in the

00:07:12.480 hall one day, we became friends. And I used to go on his show probably once a week or so, and we

00:07:17.360 would debate and I'd take the lefty position. He'd take the righty position. And then we go

00:07:20.500 downstairs, we'd have a steak and have some whiskey and we were good. And we did this for

00:07:24.080 years. Now I'm watching the supposed tolerant liberals look at a black man who happens to

00:07:31.180 think differently than they think black people are allowed to think. And suddenly they think

00:07:35.400 that gives them license to call him all of the worst things in the world. And at that moment,

00:07:41.020 because i knew david i know david and he is a good decent man who has spent you know the time

00:07:47.980 coming to his conclusions honestly i looked at them and i thought wow you guys are the racist

00:07:55.540 the anti-racists are the racists and i i think we're seeing that explode into everywhere right

00:08:02.160 now the people who purport to be the anti-racists are the ones constantly injecting racism into

00:08:08.280 society. The average person in America, certainly, but again, in the West generally, is not racist,

00:08:16.160 meaning that they would want different laws for different people based on race. They're not

00:08:20.960 racist. Now, that doesn't mean you might not, you might have some old prejudices and we should do

00:08:24.880 our best to unpack those and expose them, of course. But the idea that the system itself

00:08:30.980 is racist, but really what this moment was about was a clear cut example of them attacking a man

00:08:37.980 i know and using his race against him because he didn't think the way they wanted him to think and

00:08:43.760 i thought this is what i'm seeing proliferate and now we see it virtually everywhere yeah it's

00:08:48.700 fascinating to me because i i'm actually a very good friends with zuby who you've had on the show

00:08:53.080 yeah and he he gets the same he gets all the same stuff uh but it's interesting one of the things

00:08:58.680 you always say dave is twitter is not real life and coming very swiftly onto what seems to be

00:09:04.160 happening in your country and in ours right now. I'm starting to disagree with you on that one.

00:09:09.460 I think Twitter has become real life. Yeah. You know, it's funny when I came up with that

00:09:14.200 phrase, that little, you know, one liner right there, it was a couple of years ago.

00:09:18.320 And when I first tweeted it out, you know, I think I added a couple of caveats that we're

00:09:23.320 seeing it leak into real life and all that. And by the way, I did videos about five years ago

00:09:28.200 about how YouTube culture was suddenly becoming real life too. So I actually agree with your

00:09:33.200 premise. I removed it as my Twitter bio because in many ways, well, A, I was promoting the book,

00:09:39.280 so it's a book promotion thing on there now. But also, I think you're kind of right that social

00:09:44.940 media, the things that happen on YouTube and Twitter and everything else are now dictating how

00:09:49.900 our politicians behave and react. Now, a lot of that, obviously, you can link directly to Trump,

00:09:55.620 right? Because he's the president of Twitter, in effect. But I think you see this across the board,

00:10:02.380 regardless of political allegiance. People seem to want to get the most retweets, the most likes.

00:10:07.700 It's a constant game to one-up somebody, destroy somebody, own somebody, prove somebody wrong,

00:10:13.920 all of those things. And now we're seeing our politicians and in many ways, us, the people,

00:10:18.600 we're behaving like that. So Twitter in and of itself is not real life in that if Twitter shut

00:10:24.520 down tomorrow, real life would continue. But yes, the ideas that proliferate on Twitter

00:10:30.360 have now affected the organic lives that we live in a really bizarre way.

00:10:37.780 And this is one of the things we wanted to talk to you about because big tech censorship is

00:10:41.680 something that I've written a lot about. We have some extensive experiences as a show dealing with

00:10:47.600 that because you may be aware of this. Last year, we interviewed a gender-critical feminist who said

00:10:54.240 that trans women aren't women. YouTube deleted that video as hate speech, which incites violence

00:11:01.440 against vulnerable groups. They then reinstated it because we kicked up a big fuss. Only last

00:11:06.900 week, we had a very widely respected journalist in this country, Peter Hitchens, Christopher

00:11:11.880 Hitchens' brother, on the show. He talked about the rationale for the lockdown not being as solid

00:11:18.540 as people are making it out to be.

00:11:21.400 YouTube shadow banned it

00:11:22.780 and we caught them red-handed.

00:11:24.860 How'd you catch them?

00:11:26.440 The way we caught them is basically

00:11:28.160 you could not find the video in search

00:11:30.220 on Google or on YouTube.

00:11:32.520 And we literally got our producer

00:11:33.860 to make a video showing him searching for it.

00:11:37.100 You couldn't.

00:11:37.880 And then we, again, kicked up a big fuss.

00:11:39.900 Three days later, no acknowledgement from YouTube,

00:11:42.260 no admission of guilt, anything like that.

00:11:44.360 Video now is available for people to watch.

00:11:46.480 you know let's talk about big tech censorship because if if twitter is now real life and and

00:11:53.280 they are in charge of controlling our flow of information this is this is the issue of the

00:11:58.140 future isn't it in many ways it is the biggest issue period and i say that knowing full well

00:12:05.180 that we're in the midst of worldwide riots and at this point what i would say is a supposed pandemic

00:12:10.300 it's hard to tell what's real related to the pandemic at this point although it'll be really

00:12:15.080 interesting to see if because of all the riots now and the protests, if we suddenly have a spike

00:12:20.440 on one hand, we know the media is going to somehow blame the Republican states for opening up early

00:12:25.820 and they won't blame all the people who were, you know, protesting this whole time. You know,

00:12:30.360 quickly though, on your specific case, well, first off, it doesn't surprise me, right? We know YouTube

00:12:35.960 does these things all the time. But one of the tricks that they do is they suppress things and

00:12:42.720 then only days later do they release them. But then at that point, A, your subscribers don't

00:12:47.880 see it. It already is going to be suppressed in the algorithm and not show up in search and

00:12:51.840 everything else. So they're in effect crushing your video. Do you have any paper trail of it

00:12:56.380 or absolute proof? You don't because they're not stupid and that's what they're doing.

00:13:00.140 So first, let's not forget also that Twitter has shadow banning in their terms of service.

00:13:07.020 It is in their terms of service that they are allowed to throttle accounts, meaning certain

00:13:12.080 counts can be seen more certain accounts can be seen less so in real life if this was if this was

00:13:17.120 a basketball game or a cricket game or whatever else if one team was playing by one set of rules

00:13:22.880 and the other team was playing by another set of rules and every time the score came in one team

00:13:27.200 won and you didn't and you knew that the rules were fixed that yet you kept playing there would

00:13:31.180 be something wrong with you and in many ways that's what we're all doing so we know so for

00:13:36.100 example may on my youtube channel it was the best month we've ever had in terms of uh views watch

00:13:42.100 time monetization the whole thing now i partly think that's because of good content and and

00:13:46.520 people are home and they're watching more and we're doing a lot of relevant stuff and i had

00:13:50.100 some big guests but i have no evidence that that's actually the case sometimes they're just kind of

00:13:54.880 nicer to you i think i think possibly what happened was you know joe rogan left is leaving youtube at

00:14:00.300 the end of the year and moving to spotify so i think they were like holy cow we can't screw over

00:14:04.900 everybody right now. And, you know, I've been one of their most outspoken critics. So they're kind

00:14:09.060 of like, all right, maybe we should, you know, release Ruben a little bit. And so that he sees

00:14:14.260 a little more money coming in, he sees his numbers. I don't know if that's true, but it,

00:14:18.180 but because we're only dealing with partial information all the time, it's like, we're all

00:14:21.620 conspiracy theorists at some level. So I think what you're really asking here is, well, what do

00:14:27.220 we do about it? Right? Like, what do we do about this? It is an incredible thing that we're able

00:14:31.540 to do this on YouTube right now. It's incredible that we can release these podcasts. We can find

00:14:35.820 ways to get our audiences. My preference is not to regulate big tech. I don't like the idea that

00:14:41.720 you would take big tech and then take big government and somehow align them together.

00:14:46.380 I don't think government does virtually anything well. So the idea that government bureaucrats

00:14:51.700 would be going to the offices of Google and YouTube to try to figure out what they're doing

00:14:56.020 with the algorithm, I just don't think that's possible. I think the ship has sailed. I don't

00:15:00.620 think government's functional enough. I think these companies are too big. Now, what Trump did

00:15:04.840 a week or two ago was he did an executive action, which by the way, I don't love executive actions,

00:15:11.420 right? Because that's not really how we're supposed to be governed. We're supposed to be

00:15:14.540 governed, meaning that the legislative branch, Congress is supposed to pass laws. The president's

00:15:19.320 just supposed to sign them, but all presidents do these executive actions. And what he basically

00:15:23.700 said is, if you guys are going to act as a publisher, decide who can be seen and who can't

00:15:27.800 be seen, well, then we're going to remove legal protections. I'm basically okay with that,

00:15:33.340 because that's not regulating in a traditional sense. That's saying we're removing legal

00:15:37.420 protections. So if you're going to be messing around, you're going to be more liable to lawsuits.

00:15:40.780 So I'm basically okay with that. But for guys like us that are free speech people that

00:15:45.180 want to exchange ideas, maybe talk to scary people sometimes or perceived scary people,

00:15:51.720 there's a danger in that too, because if Twitter and YouTube suddenly go, oh,

00:15:56.040 you know, our, our legal protections aren't here. Well then suddenly they may want to be censoring

00:16:02.400 more things because they're not going to want certain conversations on board. So I think we

00:16:06.720 all have to be very careful what we ask for. Uh, and I'll just say one other thing, which is I'm a

00:16:11.480 man of my word and I don't just talk about these things. I actually put them into action. I started

00:16:15.720 locals.com. We're building digital homes for creators where you own the video, you own the

00:16:20.580 audio you own the user data uh you set your rules in your community and uh and the company's blowing

00:16:27.200 up and we're getting tons of people on there and you guys should be on there and anyone that wants

00:16:32.120 to own their future by being on youtube by being on twitter by being on facebook you're renting an

00:16:37.620 apartment from a crazy landlord who's willing to rip up the lease at any moment you need to own

00:16:42.940 your stuff and that that's what we're doing with locals.com so you wouldn't agree dave as in to

00:16:48.400 take sort of the left-wing view, which is to come in and break these monopolies up. Why not?

00:16:55.480 Because the idea that the government, well, first off, I don't think the government has any right

00:16:59.780 to do that. No one's forcing us to be on Google, on YouTube, on Twitter. Now, you can argue that

00:17:04.600 maybe they've become the new public utilities, like the phone company or the electric. Now,

00:17:09.860 I think there is some argument for that. But I think it's a rather unimaginative argument.

00:17:16.000 You know, there's so many interesting things happening in the world with decentralization

00:17:19.600 and blockchain and so many cool ways to get your stuff out there that, yes, if Twitter

00:17:24.740 banned me tomorrow, let's say tomorrow, they pulled an Alex Jones on me and they banned

00:17:29.420 me from Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, the whole thing.

00:17:32.820 Would that be awful and a seeming, let's say a seeming infringement on my rights?

00:17:40.220 It seems like it would be, but they still are basically private companies.

00:17:45.400 The idea that the government can come in and say, oh, we're going to break you up so that maybe more competition can arise, so that maybe more voices are in it.

00:17:54.720 It's just like, I don't think the government's good at anything.

00:17:58.280 I don't know anything that the government's good at.

00:18:00.400 So why would they be good at this?

00:18:01.760 And also, let's not forget, you know, all the conservatives that for a year have been screaming Trump has to regulate.

00:18:06.920 He has to regulate big tech.

00:18:08.100 It's like, you know, Trump could lose the election in November.

00:18:10.600 And let's say now you get, I'm not even sure it's going to be Biden, but let's just say it's Biden with Elizabeth Warren as VP, something like that. Well, congratulations. You just married the progressives who would love to silence all of us with the regulators, with big tech, with government. That is a nightmare scenario.

00:18:29.980 Just try to imagine if the government had more power over big tech, and now we have

00:18:34.200 President Joe Biden or Elizabeth Warren or something like that, or Kamala Harris, or

00:18:39.000 God knows which one of these clowns they're going to select.

00:18:41.520 But imagine that.

00:18:42.340 And then all the conservatives were attacking the president all day long on Twitter, the

00:18:46.680 way that blue-check lefties do on Trump all day long.

00:18:49.940 You think they're going to stand for that?

00:18:51.420 They will boot these people in a second.

00:18:53.740 So those of us that don't like centralized power, even when it feels like we need it

00:18:58.720 most we have to be wary. I mean, if you don't have principles when they're tough to have,

00:19:02.340 you don't have principles. But all that being said, I like that this argument is being hit in

00:19:08.520 many different ways. So Tucker Carlson is more okay with regulation. I've discussed that with

00:19:13.760 him on his show. I'm more of a free market guy. The PragerU people, who I'm totally aligned with

00:19:20.220 on most things, they're suing. They're in an ongoing lawsuit with YouTube over censorship.

00:19:25.780 So I think you have to hit these companies in many different ways.

00:19:28.880 And I'm not saying that I'm purely 100% right, but I'm putting my money where my mouth is

00:19:34.240 with my company, and we'll see.

00:19:36.100 What I think we need, Dave, is transparency.

00:19:38.040 That's the one issue we don't have at all at the moment.

00:19:40.680 So if we knew what they were doing, if we knew how the algorithms are built-

00:19:43.820 You're never going to get it.

00:19:45.700 Why not?

00:19:46.880 You're never going to get it because either you have to have the government force them

00:19:51.100 to be transparent, which once the government's involved, it's like nothing good will come of

00:19:56.200 this. It will actually harm their ability to innovate and do what they want to do. Whether

00:20:02.900 the things that they want to do are good or bad is almost irrelevant at that point. But yes,

00:20:08.200 would we all like them to say, this is what our algorithm is? And if you talk about these things,

00:20:13.400 you'll be exploding in views. And if you talk about these things, you're going to be depressed.

00:20:17.240 They're never going to do it. I mean, the ship has sailed. The idea that they're going to do that

00:20:21.000 You know why they also can't do it? Because they would completely expose themselves as publishers, not as platforms, which goes directly to what Trump's executive action was about, because then they would be open up to a gajillion lawsuits, which, by the way, I think is why we see these, you know, people like Jack, who's the CEO of Twitter, Jack Dorsey and Susan Wojcicki at YouTube.

00:20:42.880 you know, they're always donating money to lefty causes and blah, blah, blah, because they're

00:20:47.600 basically just buying protection because they want to be thought of as good guys while they do a lot

00:20:52.620 of shady stuff. That's the simple truth, I think. See, my concern with, and we're exploring this

00:20:58.640 issue with you, Dave, I don't have a fixed position on it. I'm happy to hear it. Yeah. I mean, my

00:21:03.260 concern was something like Google is the idea that Google is, you know, just a private company.

00:21:07.580 Look at what's happening in the streets of our countries right now. In my mind, that is the product of 50 years of progressive intersectionality ideology being indoctrinated into people on university campuses and college campuses in America that has been supported and enabled and guided by these big tech companies.

00:21:30.700 So the reason black people are being shot in the streets of America right now, to some extent, is a product of the big tech companies doing what they're doing.

00:21:40.440 So this idea that it's just a private company doing business, I don't buy that.

00:21:45.380 Well, that's why I said I'm completely OK with hitting this in many different ways.

00:21:50.080 So Prager using the legal means, me using the means of the market, et cetera, et cetera.

00:21:56.440 And I'm not even making the argument that they are purely private.

00:21:59.220 we know that these companies have all sorts of relationships with the government. We know that

00:22:02.960 there are back doors. They've talked about this in Congress, where they can see data through the

00:22:07.760 back door that's not publicly available. But again, I think that my overriding feeling on this

00:22:14.460 would be, okay, so let's break up Google. Google has to be seven different companies.

00:22:21.640 Those companies will be regulated in strange ways by the government. But then remember,

00:22:26.180 let's say you guys are somewhat friendly i sense you guys are somewhat right-leaning so you're

00:22:31.340 somewhat friendly to either the the trump administration i'm saying that i'm trying to

00:22:36.300 have a career in comedy mate come on by right-leaning even you are even you are putting

00:22:43.440 us in the box this is terrible oh dave mate i'm trying i've got my bookings when i get back come

00:22:48.840 on i probably screwed both you guys but what i was but all right all right let's deal with that

00:22:53.320 quick. But when I say right-leaning at this point, what I mean is you're probably old school liberals.

00:22:58.840 I mean, you're probably just decent free speech people who don't want the government to do

00:23:03.800 everything. That's become basically a right-leaning position. I know that sounds scary and a lot of

00:23:08.920 people freak out, but that just sadly is. The right-left thing is all screwy anyway.

00:23:14.740 But whatever it is that we all are, let's just say people who are open and want free speech and

00:23:21.120 some liberal principles, something like that. We just need to be really wary about what we ask for

00:23:26.660 because imagine giving the power of big tech and then marrying it with government if you don't

00:23:33.920 like who's in charge of the government. And this is what, this is the, in many ways, the key flaw

00:23:38.720 of all of the lefties. The lefties and then the Bernie crew and all of these people, they rail

00:23:43.680 against government all the time. Government's evil, politicians are evil, corporations are evil,

00:23:48.460 everything's giant and evil and their answer is oh if we could only give it more money raise taxes

00:23:53.780 on people make the state bigger and it's like you know what i would prefer to do is i think you're

00:23:58.240 right about some of the things big government is evil there are there are problems with central

00:24:02.640 planning above us i like i like bottom up growth my answer would be okay so you starve the beast

00:24:08.540 you let people keep more of what they earn i want you guys to keep absolutely as much money

00:24:14.260 as you earn as possible. And then I'm not a complete anarchist or a total libertarian that

00:24:19.460 I think taxes are theft. I think, I mean, this would be the classical liberal position. You need

00:24:24.400 some government, unfortunately, to keep the guardrails on society. But I can tell you this,

00:24:30.200 I live in California. We have insanely high property taxes and income tax and everything

00:24:36.260 else. There are potholes all over the street. There are homeless people everywhere.

00:24:39.640 uh texas florida they have no state income taxes they have a balanced budget we've got

00:24:45.080 massive deficits so everyone looks at all of these things backwards and uh when i say right

00:24:50.840 leaning i usually mean decent human being it's very much the opposite and we're in the industry

00:24:56.880 that we operate in dave officially i'm a centrist and francis is an old school lefty and nobody can

00:25:02.960 tell us otherwise hey listen if you guys lose your gig after this you can come work for me how about

00:25:08.220 but dave we're looking at society now and i don't know about you but i'm incredibly worried like we

00:25:18.140 started off as you intimated before that the culture will always started off as this online

00:25:22.140 thing it's now bled into reality how bad do you think things are at the moment and do you think

00:25:28.620 it's going to get worse yeah well it is going to get worse i'll do that part first we have not hit

00:25:34.140 the bottom of this thing for sure. Uh, that's number one. We can explore that a little more

00:25:39.080 in a sec. Um, look, there was a bunch of us, I would say about 40 or 50 people, maybe even less

00:25:45.020 actually online over the last five years that we're talking about these issues, right? Uh,

00:25:50.240 Brett Weinstein and Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Majid Nawaz and Sam Harris and Douglas Murray and, uh,

00:25:58.120 and a series of people that were talking about all of these things. That's really what put my show

00:26:02.600 on the map, that there was something wrong with leftism and liberalism was being destroyed. I

00:26:07.940 don't know if you guys are Star Wars guys, but I always make the analogy that the lefties,

00:26:11.780 the progressives basically executed Order 66 on the liberals. They just decided to assassinate

00:26:17.280 everybody. And now we've got a couple liberals scattered throughout the galaxy, but they don't

00:26:21.380 have much power and they don't know how to communicate and they don't know what to do

00:26:24.080 with each other. That's sort of the situation we're in right now. Now, this idea of intersectionality,

00:26:30.120 of collectivism, of postmodernism, that nothing is true anymore. And history is actually just

00:26:36.920 something that was taught to us by the white man. So history is not even history. And in the UK,

00:26:41.620 we should be tearing down monuments to Winston Churchill, who literally stopped the Nazis.

00:26:46.520 And we should be tearing down our monuments here and all these things. We really need to understand

00:26:51.780 that destroying things is very easy. You guys, me, everyone watching this could commit our lives

00:26:58.900 to destroying the existing world

00:27:00.840 because there's an existing world,

00:27:02.940 an existing structure.

00:27:04.160 We can see it, we can feel it, we live in it.

00:27:06.520 And it would be very easy for us

00:27:08.160 to just spend all our time trying to destroy it.

00:27:11.440 That's what the modern lefties are doing.

00:27:13.560 It is much harder to rebuild things

00:27:16.220 or to build things from the ground up.

00:27:18.400 We in America have built something

00:27:19.960 that is so spectacularly precious and good and decent,

00:27:23.680 where everyone from every corner of the earth

00:27:25.840 came here, made a better life for themselves.

00:27:27.520 Nobody comes to America and stays in America for five years and is like, ah, can't do it here. I'm going back.

00:27:33.420 Nobody leaves. Nobody ever leaves.

00:27:35.200 Everyone that stays, it doesn't mean you get everything you want, right?

00:27:38.680 But it means most likely, almost without exception, that you will pass a better life to your children and then their children and so on than anywhere in the world.

00:27:49.740 This is an incredible experiment.

00:27:51.360 America is just an idea, the idea that we can all come here and figure it out.

00:27:54.900 America is not based on an ethnicity or religion or anything. It's based on individual rights and

00:28:01.760 the pursuit of happiness. This is a beautiful thing. But the set of ideas now that are bursting

00:28:06.580 forth, that we're going to have white people bowing to black people and we're going to ban

00:28:11.280 police departments and we're going to basically be this lawless state. And meanwhile, the reaction

00:28:17.400 to that is what's happening? Gun sales are absolutely through the roof. Almost everyone

00:28:20.940 I know now is buying a gun. Yeah, almost everyone I know is buying a gun. People that were always

00:28:26.880 against guns, lefties in California, are suddenly buying guns. You know, this is what the left has

00:28:33.700 wrought. We warn them. But will it get worse? It absolutely will get worse because we have an

00:28:37.880 election coming in November. The left didn't accept the Trump election the first time and

00:28:43.260 then ran with Russian collusion and Ukraine and a whole bunch of other stuff. So there's no way

00:28:48.880 they're going to accept the election this time. And I do think Trump's going to win most likely

00:28:52.900 in a landslide short of something really crazy. But not only that, we could have a bump in Corona.

00:28:59.520 We don't know. Listen to some of the crazy things coming out of these rioters. They're saying that

00:29:04.920 destroying property is not violence. Really? If someone came and burned down my house, I would

00:29:10.260 consider that a violent act. But they're literally trying to change the meaning of words. These are

00:29:15.560 not good people at the top of this thing. I think the average protester and the average

00:29:20.440 confused young person, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I don't think they're out

00:29:24.860 there trying to be evil necessarily. I don't think they know the statistics. I don't think

00:29:28.940 they know the statistics related to police brutality or related to racial incidences or

00:29:34.500 any of these things. And the left is really great at manipulating people's emotions. So I think it

00:29:41.140 is unfortunately going to get worse. We don't have a lot of adults in the room. I'm trying to

00:29:45.440 be one of them, but we need way more people than me. Well, there's three of us hopefully trying,

00:29:49.680 at least in this conversation. But this is what I wanted to explore with you, Dave, because

00:29:54.120 Lou Perez from We the Internet, who's a friend of ours, has been on the show. He posted something

00:29:58.740 the other day saying, it's 2020, so silence is violence, words are violence, but violence isn't

00:30:05.560 violence. Yeah, he's right. I mean, literally, they're telling us violence isn't violence.

00:30:11.540 But words are, and so is silence. Right. So silence is violence, because then that means

00:30:18.120 you're acquiescing to the evil system. I mean, that's just bananas. You might just not agree.

00:30:22.620 It rhymes. Right. It rhymes. So thus, it must be true and good. But silence is not violence.

00:30:30.780 You know, the idea that words are violence is also completely crazy. It's completely counter

00:30:35.100 to the First Amendment, and anyone that cares about free speech should understand that. But

00:30:39.340 this next idea that violence is not violence, that tearing down monuments, that destroying

00:30:47.280 cop cars, literally burning down buildings, looting stores, these are not violent acts.

00:30:53.540 Well, first off, a lot of people have been killed in these riots. I think about six black

00:30:57.240 people, including David Dorn, who was a 77-year-old retired police chief, I think.

00:31:02.340 um you know so people are being killed so that would count as violence but again when someone

00:31:07.660 says attacking property is not violence i wonder if they would think if someone put their house to

00:31:15.120 fire while they were in it would that be a violent act or not and we all know it's true but the left

00:31:19.640 is really good about manipulating language and words and it's it's deeply deeply dangerous and

00:31:26.160 it's not also the fact that they're very good at manipulating words and i've seen it because my

00:31:31.840 mothers from venezuela and what they're exceptionally good at is making you scared

00:31:37.680 like there are aspects of the black lives matter movement and you know that defunding the police

00:31:44.660 and everyone's going let's defund the police i'm like what do you mean defund the police that's

00:31:49.680 insanity if you have a crime problem then would you want more police or less police now that

00:31:55.860 doesn't mean that you want an unending police state that doesn't mean you want you know to

00:32:00.760 be fearful of the, you know, living in a community where the police are patrolling all the time and

00:32:06.500 they're just randomly grabbing people and putting them in black bags and driving away. But generally

00:32:11.020 we know that when we put more policing in certain neighborhoods, that things do get cleaned up. Now

00:32:16.560 that doesn't mean there aren't some bad apples. This is how you have an honest discussion about

00:32:20.620 this stuff. But the idea of defund the police in the midst of all of this, look, the simple thing

00:32:26.280 is this. Anyone watching this, clip this and let's listen to it a year from now. And in a year from

00:32:31.340 now, if Minnesota or Minneapolis has defunded the police, I will bet everything that it is going to

00:32:37.240 be more violent and scary. And if it isn't, it will only be because people either won't report

00:32:42.560 things or people will basically be trapped in their houses or just a huge population transfer.

00:32:48.040 I mean, if you're just an average, decent person living in Minneapolis right now,

00:32:52.100 and you like rule of law, basic law and order, you thought life was pretty decent before all this,

00:32:57.160 would it make sense to stay in Minneapolis? You better get the hell out of there.

00:33:01.040 So they're really good at taking bad ideas and making them sound just.

00:33:06.540 And I think one of the things that conservatives have failed at for a long time

00:33:10.460 is that it takes more effort and more intellectual heft to explain things, to say, well, actually

00:33:18.820 look at the studies. In 2019, only nine unarmed black men were shot by police. That's infinitesimal.

00:33:26.300 19 were shot by white men. Now, you're going to have to really grapple with that and think. And

00:33:31.140 then what they'll say to you is, well, that doesn't matter. The facts of the case don't

00:33:34.440 matter. We just feel America is racist and America was founded on racism and the rest of it. And

00:33:40.460 again, it's very easy to destroy. It is very difficult to create. Well, it's exactly the

00:33:45.600 same thing that we have in the uk you know we for we had a massive furore over a government advisor

00:33:51.420 who traveled to somewhere to be with his parents so they could look up like a non-story basically

00:33:59.060 for weeks it was covered like it was a it was like our 9-11 that that was the level of coverage

00:34:04.340 q this week we have massive protests on the streets thousands of people gathering now it's

00:34:10.720 okay and now it's fine and and like no one's talking about it the media have just stopped

00:34:16.120 talking about it and not only not only is it fine now but we've had we've had new york city officials

00:34:22.400 one of them i think is like the deputy health official of new york city is i think his name

00:34:26.160 is mark levine he said that if there is a spike because of the protest that it won't be because

00:34:32.500 of the protest it'll be because of racism i mean think how profoundly ridiculous that is like

00:34:40.060 that's idiocracy on steroids absolutely on steroids so there are so many and that's why

00:34:47.740 to get to your earlier question about will this get worse in many ways the the entropy of it the

00:34:52.260 energy of it has to get worse because it hasn't burned out yet uh but you guys might remember on

00:34:57.660 january 1st first day of the year i always tweet out a thread about what i think is going to happen

00:35:02.260 in the year and i kind of look back at whether my predictions over the last couple years have

00:35:05.980 right. And I've been pretty good in this game. And my feeling was that intersectionality and

00:35:10.380 all of the stuff we're talking about right now was going to collapse this year because

00:35:13.640 the competing interests of it would be too much to bear in an election year. I still think there

00:35:19.680 is a chance it collapses. Now, it won't go away quietly and it will lash out in horribly violent

00:35:25.960 ways. I mean, I think they're just beginning to show you how violent they are. This won't be just

00:35:31.620 about blowing up buildings. I mean, I think we're going to see a different level of terrorism with

00:35:35.840 them and all sorts of stuff. I'm talking about Antifa specifically. I just don't think we realize

00:35:41.620 what level they're willing to go to to cause chaos. But what I think is a Trump re-election

00:35:49.080 in November would be another absolute just foot on the face of this thing. But imagine if Trump

00:35:58.220 loses. Now, this doesn't mean you have to be the biggest Trump supporter in the world. I didn't

00:36:01.500 even vote for Trump. I'm basically okay with Trump. And yes, would I like him to tweet a

00:36:05.800 little bit differently? Sure. We've been, everyone's been through that already. But

00:36:09.600 imagine if Trump loses and then, you know, I, again, I don't know that Biden's even going to

00:36:13.560 be the nominee, but if, but if the Democrats who really stand for nothing, but you know,

00:36:17.320 they're all, I saw it today, Chuck Schumer's bowing and Nancy Pelosi's bowing and the rest

00:36:21.640 of them, all of the worst ideas of society will be, will be empowered in the scariest possible

00:36:28.420 ways and then when we when we all joke that the gulag is coming it won't be a joke well hey man

00:36:34.320 i'm from russia so i've been warning people it's been coming for a long time and you know you talk

00:36:38.880 about antifa we had andy no on the show last time he was in london so our viewers aren't under any

00:36:44.520 illusions about who these people are at all um but i want to talk to you about the media because

00:36:49.960 you know you had you and joe rogan i guess are probably the two biggest shows on these kind of

00:36:54.600 issues in the US. We are probably the biggest show in the UK talking about this stuff. And what

00:37:00.220 I see with the media is that feelings world that you've been talking about, where if you feel

00:37:07.760 something's right, then that's fine. That seems to have completely infected the mainstream media

00:37:13.360 as well, to the point where large sections of the media in this country, the BBC included,

00:37:18.280 simply refuse to cover the facts. And they present a picture that's completely inaccurate.

00:37:23.860 it. The BBC is complete and utter nonsense. Every headline at this point that I see from the BBC,

00:37:28.960 I've had the BBC run hit pieces on me where they don't even put the author's name. They literally

00:37:34.120 just write a piece with uncredited to an author. That's what cowardice and lack of journalistic

00:37:39.680 standards is happening at the BBC. Well, Dave, you're a great success. I hope one day to get

00:37:43.820 to the level where they get the same shit for us, man. Yeah. I've only had a vice article, mate.

00:37:49.120 Listen, I truly hope you guys get there. It will be a pleasure. That will be a great sign.

00:37:58.460 But I'm sure you guys saw the headline. I'm going to slightly butcher it. But just in the last

00:38:01.640 couple of days, there was a headline in the BBC about the largely peaceful rallies. What was it?

00:38:07.220 Something like only like 19 police officers? 27. Only 27 police officers injured in largely

00:38:15.160 peaceful protest. And in the picture, you see a horse being attacked. There's an officer on the

00:38:20.640 floor. I mean, it's complete chaos. And in my book, by the way, I write about, there's a chapter

00:38:26.760 on how to spot fake news. And what we all think, I think what a lot of people think is that fake

00:38:32.620 news is just fabrications. It's just like a completely fake story. But that's not really

00:38:37.640 what the scariest type of fake news is. In many ways, fake news is a headline that doesn't match

00:38:43.000 the story because you, because most people just look at the headline, they don't read the article

00:38:46.400 or another, another really dangerous type of fake news is when the media purposely ignores a story

00:38:54.520 because it doesn't fit their narrative. So if the media had been dealing with any of the things that

00:38:59.820 we're talking about, honestly, here, then we wouldn't be in this situation because if the

00:39:04.660 media had been saying for the last couple of years, you know, there really is a problem at the

00:39:08.600 academic level. And there really are some problems related to how we're talking about

00:39:14.960 trans issues or racial issues or everything else. But instead, the media ran everywhere in the UK

00:39:20.500 and here and in most Western places that all of our societies are evil and racist,

00:39:25.420 no matter how much proof we have that they're not. There are no laws in the UK that stop anyone

00:39:31.380 from doing anything based on the color of their skin. And if you guys can point me to a law that

00:39:36.240 says if you're black or you're a new immigrant or something like that, you can't do this, well,

00:39:41.440 then I will gladly fight that law with you. And by the way, there are no laws in the United States

00:39:46.480 that stop you from doing something based on the color of your skin or your sexuality or your

00:39:51.480 gender or any of those things. But they have lied to everybody for so long to make it seem like

00:39:56.620 that's how society operates that now we wonder why young people are burning down buildings.

00:40:02.660 And then, of course, the ultimate irony of this is that these buffoon newscasters who are cheering it on on CNN and these idiot, really awful celebrities, you know, Seth Rogen and Steve Carell and these ridiculous celebrities who live in multi, multi-million dollar mansions in the Hollywood Hills with security and gates and never have to go shopping for themselves because they have other people do it at the stores that are burning down, although the stores burning down aren't even in their neighborhoods.

00:40:29.580 it's like you guys are the ones you think this is going to save you you fools like seth rogan

00:40:34.940 they're going to burn down your house and there will be those smell of weed will be all over

00:40:39.200 los angeles right but they will burn down your house because no matter how much money you give

00:40:44.900 them no matter how many times you bow to them or put out your crappy movies uh you will still be a

00:40:50.980 rich white guy at the end seth rogan so you're gonna get what's coming to you not by my law

00:40:55.820 by their law so you heard it here first guys uh dave rubin doesn't like seth rogan movies anyway

00:41:01.580 i mean a 40 year old virgin well that was that a seth rogan movie yeah i'm not a huge fan of

00:41:07.360 i don't know he smokes pot and mumbles okay great but it's it's really interesting what you're

00:41:13.740 saying because there was a radio show host or somebody who worked in radio here who got in

00:41:19.760 problems because he didn't agree with white privilege or he said that he didn't agree with

00:41:24.700 the concept. It's now becoming the case where if you say that you disagree with certain political

00:41:30.860 statements, you're done. Look, let's talk about the white privilege thing for a second. First off,

00:41:37.320 I would say that in America, there's no privilege other than American privilege. Yes, some people

00:41:41.900 are born with money. Some people are born poor. Some people are born with great physical attributes.

00:41:45.960 Some people are born handicapped. Some people are born smarter. Some people aren't that bright.

00:41:50.820 Those are all the things that's the good word.

00:41:52.820 I'm going to give you the gestalt of life.

00:41:54.640 That's just the mix of life.

00:41:56.740 But all a free society can do is, hey, we're going to give you guys equal laws.

00:42:00.700 Some of you are going to work really hard.

00:42:02.300 Some of you are going to make your luck.

00:42:03.780 Some of you are going to be lazy.

00:42:05.340 But we're a free society, so we have equal laws for everybody.

00:42:08.200 Let's pretend that white privilege was a real thing.

00:42:12.280 Let's pretend it was really real.

00:42:13.820 Now, okay, white privilege is real.

00:42:16.280 So what are you going to have to do?

00:42:17.920 Well, that means you're going to have to punish white people.

00:42:20.820 Now, should an 18-year-old white kid who's busted his butt, played by the rules, worked hard in school, did after-curricular activities, did athletics and everything else, should he be punished as he's trying to get into college?

00:42:35.560 Should he be punished and treated differently based on the color of his skin through no fault of his own to let in somebody else?

00:42:44.460 My answer to that is no.

00:42:46.420 That would be racist.

00:42:48.200 And by the way, Harvard is doing this right now.

00:42:51.180 They didn't want that many Asian students there.

00:42:54.100 So they make it harder for Asians to get into college.

00:42:56.740 Now, why would we, now that sounds like racism, right?

00:42:59.600 We're taking a people of a certain race

00:43:01.280 and we're making it harder for them to come into school.

00:43:03.900 Why should we punish Asian people?

00:43:06.280 Asian people, whether they're Chinese, Japanese,

00:43:09.360 Korean, whatever it is, they by and large

00:43:12.340 are at the top of our socioeconomic ladder

00:43:15.440 because they work really hard, they care about education,

00:43:19.000 there's the idea of tiger mom, and they care about family,

00:43:22.820 and they've thrived in the American system.

00:43:26.140 Why would you start punishing them for that?

00:43:28.640 No one gave, when a Korean family moved here in 1950,

00:43:32.600 did anyone give them anything?

00:43:33.980 No, and by the way, if you moved here from Italy or Ireland

00:43:37.460 or you were a Jewish immigrant or whatever it might be,

00:43:39.980 no one gave you anything.

00:43:41.140 You got here, you busted your butt.

00:43:43.300 In my book, I talk about my two grandfathers who both fought in World War II.

00:43:48.180 One of them was flying planes.

00:43:49.520 One of them was a mechanic.

00:43:51.160 But I remember my grandpa already, he died when I was in second grade.

00:43:54.460 But I remember him telling me when I was probably in first grade, he was handing me like some

00:43:59.900 change or something.

00:44:01.080 And he said that his first job was for a quarter, a quarter an hour.

00:44:05.700 And he grew up in a bedroom with six brothers and sisters.

00:44:09.820 His father died when he was two years old.

00:44:11.520 I mean, the things that the people before us have been through and that we're going to sit here in 2020 and be willing to throw that away or to watch just in the last day, you know, people in the UK tearing down statues of people and writing Winston Churchill was a Nazi, the guy who literally, you know, helped us defeat Hitler.

00:44:29.240 I mean, there is no greater hero, a flawed man for sure.

00:44:33.220 But in many ways, there is no greater hero of the last hundred years than Churchill.

00:44:37.560 He's at least in that Parthenon of people.

00:44:41.680 So we've done almost everything backwards, and we need people to start getting braver.

00:44:45.720 That's the only answer.

00:44:47.180 Just for accuracy, Dave, I'll say that they put Winston Churchill as a racist, so not

00:44:51.220 quite so bad.

00:44:51.820 Oh, not a Nazi.

00:44:53.900 Thank you.

00:44:54.940 Thank you for the clarification.

00:44:55.980 Nazis is the three of us, as we know.

00:44:58.240 Which was the statue that they did pull down

00:45:01.220 just in the last couple of years?

00:45:02.060 It was of Edward Colson,

00:45:03.620 who was a conservative MP and the slave owning,

00:45:08.480 you know, he profited from the slave trade.

00:45:10.180 He built a city where I went to school, Bristol,

00:45:12.340 large parts of it.

00:45:13.900 So I, listen, I won't pretend to know more about him

00:45:16.460 than I do know.

00:45:17.280 So I won't comment on that specifically.

00:45:18.920 But, you know, we have to remember that all of us,

00:45:21.820 including us right now, we are just people of our time.

00:45:25.200 There are things that people in the future

00:45:27.500 will think of us like we eat meat, of how barbaric we were. And let's not forget,

00:45:32.900 Barack Obama ran against gay marriage when he was first running for election in 2008.

00:45:38.660 The progressives of 2045 are going to burn down the Obama library because he was an anti-gay

00:45:45.360 bigot. That is why, again, this is a movement of destruction, not creation. Our founders in America,

00:45:53.380 They owned slaves.

00:45:54.680 George Washington owned slaves.

00:45:56.500 His half of the slaves did not get freed till he died.

00:45:58.820 And then Martha, his wife, actually kept her half.

00:46:01.180 But you know what?

00:46:02.160 He was also the man who led the war for independence.

00:46:05.360 And people wanted him to be the president and the general leader of the army.

00:46:09.840 And he said, no, I won't do both.

00:46:11.500 And he voluntarily put his power down.

00:46:13.120 That's an extraordinary thing.

00:46:14.980 Thomas Jefferson owned slaves while writing the laws that freed the slaves.

00:46:18.780 It does not mean they were perfect people.

00:46:21.300 There were a million.

00:46:22.340 Thomas Jefferson wrote about how he was afraid that if he freed his slaves and everyone freed

00:46:26.720 their slaves immediately, that it would create this giant underclass of unemployment and all

00:46:31.080 of these other things. Now, that doesn't mean it's right what he did or anything else. But the idea

00:46:35.180 that we're just going to burn all of the history as if we're so great right now. Does anyone think

00:46:40.100 we're really so great right now? Look where we're at. Look at the things we're debating.

00:46:43.920 I think there's an even bigger issue, Dave, to be honest with you. I think that's certainly an

00:46:47.420 issue. But there's a much bigger issue at play here, which is fundamentally the guy who's

00:46:52.320 statues they pulled down and threw into into the water he he was he was a slave owner but the

00:46:58.820 question is do i i i come from russia i was born in the soviet union do i get to go and pull down

00:47:04.860 a carl marx statue in london because i feel strongly about it is not they ain't gonna be

00:47:10.700 no no not the beloved carl marx they ain't gonna be happy about that one every group gets to pull

00:47:15.660 down whatever they want and we get to use just violence and destroy things because that's what

00:47:20.200 we don't like? Is that the society we want to live in, where if I don't agree with somebody

00:47:24.780 and there's a statue of them from 300 years ago, I get to go and destroy that? What about a building

00:47:30.440 that was built with that guy's money? Do I get to pull down a building? Do I get to kill his

00:47:35.340 great-grandchildren? I mean, where do we take this? No, you're making great points. And let's

00:47:39.360 not forget, burning buildings doesn't count as violence. So I guess in that case, you're allowed

00:47:43.540 to do it. But yeah, of course, you're making a great point. And this is why we have to fight

00:47:49.300 this crazy ideology because everyone has a grievance or a perceived grievance against

00:47:54.940 someone or something. So if we want everything not to be destroyed, then we better start calling

00:48:02.800 this nonsense out for what it is. I mean, even I'm fascinated actually by what's going on in

00:48:06.980 the UK right now, because you guys, there's no evidence that I've heard of that you guys have

00:48:11.680 any problem with policing at any level, separating whatever's going on in America.

00:48:17.680 There's no evidence that you guys have it. I'm watching cops running your cops. I'm sure you saw too the mob chasing your cops away

00:48:24.540 I mean the whole thing is backwards there and again that shows you

00:48:27.960 That this terrible infection of post-modernism it's here to destroy the west

00:48:35.360 It is here to destroy capitalism. It is here to destroy freedom

00:48:39.860 They're doing it in the name of tolerance, but they are truly the least tolerant people around who who destroys

00:48:46.820 who in the last couple of years, remind me guys, who in the last couple of years was tearing down

00:48:50.060 a lot of monuments? ISIS. Remember ISIS? Yeah. Remember what they were doing in Syria? A lot

00:48:56.240 of monuments went down. But the thing that I always find very interesting, Dave, is the left's

00:49:02.120 embrace of communism. And in fact, when they graffitied Churchill's statue, there was a hammer

00:49:08.420 and a sickle on there as well. Why is it we have suddenly gone back to one of the worst ideas of

00:49:13.900 the 20th century. It hasn't worked anywhere. It certainly didn't work in Venezuela. I saw it

00:49:18.940 happen with my own eyes. Why are this young generation embracing it? Well, they've been

00:49:24.900 tricked by easy answers instead of thinking. I mean, this goes back to how did this all start?

00:49:29.360 Well, it's mostly a failure of education. The bad ideas that have been imported into the West

00:49:34.900 about collectivism and socialism and communism, the idea that taking from some and giving to

00:49:40.920 others just because you feel like it, that that is an admirable position. That's called greed.

00:49:45.880 That's called envy. And yet we've imported this through Bernie Sanders in many ways as if this

00:49:52.080 is a good set of ideas. Bernie, you've never accomplished anything. How do you get to decide

00:49:56.500 who can keep what they earn and who can't keep what they earn and who should get what? And what

00:50:00.560 should be free, which we know isn't free? And what minimum wage should be when you've never

00:50:04.800 run a business? I have a small business here. I know a little bit more about running a business

00:50:09.720 than Bernie Sanders, who's never accomplished anything. I mean, that's the truth. He's just

00:50:13.540 an old, failed socialist. And by the way, they'll destroy Bernie one day, too. I mean, the next

00:50:18.840 level of this thing is Bernie just failed twice, and he backed Hillary Clinton, and now he's

00:50:23.440 backing Biden. So they'll take out Bernie. There's no doubt about that. And that'll be a pretty

00:50:27.540 beautiful day. Well, you've got AOC coming up. So you've got someone to replace him. You'll be

00:50:33.140 fine. No, we've got a much worse version of it, a much scarier version of it, because she's better

00:50:37.420 on television and the rest of it i mean i think she's mostly a dullard who's just felt you know

00:50:42.020 they give her ideas and then she tweets them and it's like every time she tweets something that

00:50:45.680 sort of sounds smart it's like who's tweeting this because because this didn't come this didn't come

00:50:49.680 from you she's she's just terrible um but why are these ideas proliferating well look i think you

00:50:56.120 can explain it this way if you're if you're on the right like you far right maniacs that i'm talking

00:51:01.600 If you're on the right, what do you basically believe? I'll do this from an American perspective,

00:51:12.320 but it'll very much fall congruently with UK perspective. If you're on the right,

00:51:17.840 you basically believe in individual rights. That's sort of the core belief. And from an

00:51:21.520 American perspective, that means those rights are granted to you or really protected by the

00:51:26.340 Constitution of the United States. So everyone should have the same rights regardless, as I said

00:51:30.600 before of sexuality, gender, color of their skin, or the rest of it. That's the core of what being

00:51:37.020 on the right is. Now, the right doesn't always behave that way. And you can argue there's more

00:51:41.640 libertarian versions and more conservative versions and everything else. But that's sort

00:51:44.480 of the core belief of being on the right, that you have rights and that the government should

00:51:49.120 stay out of your way, is pretty much the underwriting principle. On the left, there's

00:51:56.700 no underwriting principle anymore other than the state. What is the thing that brings people on

00:52:02.320 the left together other than they want the state to do everything? It's not individual rights. It's

00:52:07.940 not limited government or some principle, right? Those things are principles. On the left, it's,

00:52:14.140 oh, the government is supposed to do stuff. Well, if you take that to its logical conclusion,

00:52:19.660 where do you end up? You end up with communism or fascism or socialism or something because that's

00:52:25.580 where you've outsourced all of the power to the machine. So this is the irony. These people who

00:52:30.900 think they're in the resistance are actually the biggest suck ups to power. If you don't want

00:52:36.500 something to have power, don't give it your money. Don't give it your rights. What they want to do

00:52:40.980 is they love power. That's why every time you have a progressive who's, you know, they run around

00:52:47.020 with their blue hair and they seem like they're for tolerance and decency and all that. But if

00:52:51.300 you scratch them for just a second, what you will always find is a really nasty authoritarian

00:52:56.780 beneath that who wants to control you. So a great example I can give on this is on the right,

00:53:03.300 when you talk about wages, on the right, basically, we'll say, well, you let the market decide. If

00:53:07.180 someone wants a job, the person who owns the business could decide what to pay them, and then

00:53:10.960 that person could decide if they want the job. I think that's basically a pretty sound principle.

00:53:15.900 On the left, now they'll say, no, $15 minimum wage.

00:53:20.200 Now, who came up with that?

00:53:21.200 Bernie basically came up with it.

00:53:22.600 And how did he come up with it?

00:53:23.420 Well, he just thought of a number that he seemed to think was right.

00:53:26.660 He has no principle to pick that number.

00:53:29.180 There's no economic principle that says that's the right number.

00:53:32.000 And there's, by the way, there's no ethical principle that says the government can force

00:53:35.420 you to do it either.

00:53:36.100 But what happens is he says $15.

00:53:38.860 And then, because these people believe government is inherently good, Rashida Tlaib, who's like

00:53:44.760 a sideshow of AOC. She says, no, it should be $20. And it's like, well, you know, he just made

00:53:51.000 up a number and she made up a higher number. So she must be right. And why not $35? She must be

00:53:55.400 better, Dave. She must be a lot better. You're right. Because AOC, what was one of her most

00:54:00.620 famous accidentally poignant lines? She said, you don't have to be factually correct. You have to be

00:54:08.780 morally right. And that's what she means. You don't have to think things through. You just have

00:54:13.500 to feel and where to because I don't know where her morals come from to say you have to be morally

00:54:17.200 right well okay there's something good about being morally right but I I don't think I share the same

00:54:22.660 moral code uh nor to most Americans as AOC uh but I think you got my point there that then they get

00:54:28.640 in that's why everything on the left becomes a race to out government themselves because there's

00:54:33.560 no unifying principle other than government so every time you say the government should do more

00:54:37.900 it de facto makes you seem like you're a good person do you think as there might be a part of

00:54:44.600 it as well that capitalism for a lot of people in particularly the younger generation dave has

00:54:49.540 stopped working for them in that wages have stagnated gap between rich and poor is increasing

00:54:55.720 for instance in the uk the chance of owning a house is from a lot of people or property

00:55:00.580 is rapidly you know evaporating and a lot of these kids are going you know what

00:55:05.800 why should i buy into capitalism if capitalism gives me nothing right so first off i mean we

00:55:12.240 should blow up a couple myths here capitalism has freed more people and caused more prosperity than

00:55:17.300 any other system uh there's the famous quote i forget who it is i'm going to slightly butcher

00:55:21.160 it but basically capitalism is the best of all of the bad systems capitalism is the chance that you

00:55:27.420 have to work really hard to build something good for yourself now that doesn't mean it's going to

00:55:31.380 work all the time as i said before and by the way you are right that we're seeing the rich get richer

00:55:35.420 and the poor get poor and what we need in a healthy society, you do want the middle class

00:55:40.300 is what you want strengthened the most. So that doesn't mean that capitalism in and of itself is

00:55:45.880 perfect. Because by the way, then what happens is the government gets involved. And then the

00:55:50.200 government is constantly rejiggering the economy and regulating certain things and not regulating

00:55:55.840 other things and saying this is a monopoly and this isn't a monopoly. I honestly believe if you

00:56:00.660 got the government really out of all of that stuff, you would see more competition, you'd see

00:56:05.960 more competitive wages and the rest of it. So again, I still believe this to be a government

00:56:12.400 problem. Their answer, though, is just, okay, well, then let's give it more government to make

00:56:17.700 it so that more people are equal. All that being said, for the young person that sees a bleak

00:56:22.700 future, that thinks, okay, well, how am I going to afford a house? What I think is we should all

00:56:28.980 right now, especially in the midst of corona and the riots and everything else happening right now,

00:56:34.180 we should all really be rethinking our lives. If you are a 17-year-old right now, do you really

00:56:40.780 think that you should spend $100,000 going to college when you can learn most of that stuff

00:56:48.200 probably in about six months on YouTube? Now, there's still an argument I think you can make

00:56:53.400 that college is a place for socialization and it's good for young people to be away from parents.

00:56:57.580 And I think we can deal with all of those issues in other ways, probably.

00:57:01.420 I have no doubt that we can.

00:57:02.880 But we should all be reevaluating everything we're doing.

00:57:05.720 You guys, it's like we should be reevaluating.

00:57:08.480 Do I want to work at an office that I have to commute to and drive in a car 45 minutes

00:57:13.540 a day or spend 20 minutes in the tube?

00:57:15.640 Can I work at home?

00:57:16.980 Is my home big enough?

00:57:18.300 So maybe I need a bigger house now because I'm going to work from home.

00:57:21.420 Do I want to live in a big city that every few months is going to be ransacked by a bunch

00:57:25.240 of jackals?

00:57:25.780 I mean, all of these things are up for debate right now. And I think if you have your head on

00:57:30.380 straight, I think there's incredible opportunity in the future. So I'm actually very bullish that

00:57:37.360 we will get out of this and get out of it well. But to bring it back to your earlier question,

00:57:40.780 yes, it's still going to get worse before then. All right. Well, we're going to wrap up in a

00:57:44.560 couple of minutes. But actually, you talk about reassessing a life. One of the great things for

00:57:48.260 us doing the show is we do it full time now. It's become awesome. Which is brilliant. And what I

00:57:54.820 was thinking about earlier today is the the most precious thing i think you can have in this society

00:58:01.580 that we have right now is being uncancellable because once you get to that that's when you

00:58:09.420 can actually you know you can say what you think you you can be free to have your opinions you

00:58:16.040 don't have to answer to anybody and uh you know i want to thank you from both of us because you

00:58:21.560 and joe rogan have led the way in allowing people like us to go oh but that's possible you can do

00:58:27.920 that you can build something for yourself and you don't have to be afraid of the people around you

00:58:33.140 you know francis was joking with you about comedy but he doesn't need it anymore because of of you

00:58:37.680 because us doing the show he turned us into nazis dave thank you mate hey it's my pleasure guys but

00:58:44.440 that's a beautiful thing but wait a minute i want to understand something so how if you guys are now

00:58:48.260 free and and somewhat uncancellable i i tend to think you're probably still more cancelable than

00:58:54.060 you think how are you guys generating most of your rev for the show right now so it would be

00:58:58.700 through through youtube and ad ad revenue and then people supporting us through patreon subscribe

00:59:04.320 star paypal etc now obviously there's a level of cancellation that's possible you know with all of

00:59:10.580 those things but i'm talking about more more like you know getting fired or not being booked for

00:59:16.560 comedy clubs but yeah i mean i can see where you're going yeah yeah yeah yeah so what you

00:59:21.500 want to do is uh and if if my example has helped you guys in any way that's great so let my example

00:59:27.880 light the way a little bit further the next step for you guys is don't be so reliant on youtube

00:59:34.440 don't be so certainly on patreon patreon could boot you tomorrow let's get you guys on locals

00:59:39.420 i mean nobody's gonna boot you uh and you'll have a much more robust tech backing than anything the

00:59:45.500 Patreon is going to give you. And I'm not saying that as a salesman. I'm saying that as purely

00:59:49.580 if you guys truly want to be independent, Locals is not a giant platform. What Locals is doing is

00:59:55.900 building digital homes. We're a tech company that gives you the tools to build whatever it is you

01:00:00.940 want. But in terms of uncancelable, it's ironic because where did we start this conversation with

01:00:06.400 your videos that have been shadow banned, which then, of course, hurts your views. And what

01:00:11.400 happens? Well, now your views are hurt. Now your monetization is hurt. So you're not quite out of

01:00:15.620 the woods. And by the way, I'm not quite out of the woods because there's still other things that

01:00:18.700 they can do to get you. But I think if you just keep going in that direction, and we're working

01:00:26.380 on a lot of really cool things with locals right now on the decentralization side and blockchain

01:00:30.380 and the rest of it, it's if you keep moving in the direction to free yourself, you guys will

01:00:34.760 free yourselves. But you ain't uncancelable yet, my Nazi friends. All right. Well, you gave us the

01:00:43.140 hard sell date, but actually, I think we applied some time ago and we haven't heard back from

01:00:47.340 locals. So please expedite that process. We've been overloaded, but right when we get off here,

01:00:51.660 I'll make sure that they bump you up. We have thousands and thousands of communities that are

01:00:56.540 trying to be created right now. But it's a good problem when you have too many people trying to

01:01:01.120 get on it one of course it is but they thank you so much for coming on keep please keep doing what

01:01:06.040 you're doing we're big fans of yours and you know people like you and people like us we're making

01:01:10.460 a positive difference in the world and the more people are inspired by your example the better

01:01:15.360 we recommend everybody gets the book don't burn this book it is really really good i've got to

01:01:19.960 be honest i don't know why but you know a lot of people have that same sense with us sometimes where

01:01:24.700 like they come to watch our show and it's mainly about the person we're interviewing because that's

01:01:29.180 how we do it. So when I was reading your book, I thought it would be maybe kind of a rehashing of

01:01:34.420 the stuff that some of your guests have said or whatever, but it's really a fascinating read and

01:01:38.460 a look into your life and the things that have inspired you to, you know, to take a big risk

01:01:43.040 and to create something very special. But Dave, thank you for coming on. We've got one more

01:01:47.280 question for you. And the question we always end with is what's the one thing we're not talking

01:01:51.640 about as a society that we really should be? Well, in many ways, I think we actually just

01:01:57.760 hit it, which is that there is opportunity coming. I know it feels scary. I know people are freaking

01:02:03.980 out. I know people, every one of us is thinking, wow, should I live where I live? Do I, do I need

01:02:09.320 to protect myself in a different way? Um, you know, even think of lockdown itself. It's like,

01:02:14.360 am I in, am I trapped in a house with a boyfriend or girlfriend or husband or wife or roommate who

01:02:19.660 I like? Am I trapped in a house with someone I hate? Like literally, you know, do I, am I too

01:02:23.860 reliant on the systems that deliver me food should i have a garden in the back or should i have some

01:02:29.380 wow dave i'm sorry to interrupt but your research researchers are so good you hit straight up france's

01:02:34.360 life story right there yeah you got chickens no i don't dave but uh but no carry on no you should

01:02:44.360 have some chickens um ironically we used to have chickens here and then our our dog was was elderly

01:02:51.440 and had cancer and we were spending so much time focused on her we don't have the chickens anymore

01:02:55.120 which i would love to have chickens right now because i'd be getting eggs but putting that

01:02:58.720 aside i think i really believe this there's incredible opportunity on the horizon you know

01:03:03.800 speaking of winston churchill the uk has had darker days than it's having right now and it

01:03:09.160 may seem scary and all that stuff um but but leaders appear good people stand up um i think

01:03:16.680 you guys are doing your part you're not alone in the uk you've got douglas murray who i think is

01:03:21.260 like the the best of the best we had him on the show like three or four times now yeah did you

01:03:26.080 i mean i think douglas is basically the clearest thinker we've got going right now uh you've got

01:03:31.400 you've got great people like andrew doyle and you've got majid nawaz and and a slew of other

01:03:37.280 people uh that are fighting these battles alongside of you guys and we will get through it

01:03:42.680 And when we get through it, be one of the people that blazes the trail to the new world because there is a new world on the horizon. Think about it this way. February, so four months ago basically, seems like an awful long time ago.

01:03:59.360 Remember when you could just go out with your friends and you thought everything was

01:04:02.240 basically okay?

01:04:03.240 It feels like the good old days already.

01:04:05.420 Yeah.

01:04:05.800 Oh, well, yeah, it was the good old days and those days ain't coming back.

01:04:10.560 It doesn't mean we won't reset to something, but there is a new world pretty much staring

01:04:16.360 us in the face right now.

01:04:18.080 And to loosely quote Jordan Peterson, if you can stand up straight with your shoulders

01:04:22.660 back and you can clean your room, you might have a chance to profit from it.

01:04:27.460 And I don't mean that purely monetarily.

01:04:29.000 I mean that spiritually, morally, and societally.

01:04:34.920 As you always say, Dave, what a great way to end the interview.

01:04:38.740 I finally got one.

01:04:42.480 Thank you so much for coming on, guys.

01:04:44.400 Take care.

01:04:45.000 We'll see you very soon with another interview and a live stream.

01:04:48.120 Yeah, take care, guys.

01:04:49.240 See you soon.

01:04:59.000 We'll be right back.

TRIGGERnometry - June 10, 2020

Dave Rubin： Don't Ban This Interview

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