TRIGGERnometry - Ex-Marine： We Lost in Afghanistan and We're Losing at Home Too

00:00:00.000 Payroll payout from Boom 97.3 and Alpine Credits is your chance to get some much-needed cash back in your wallet.

00:00:08.960 What you need to do now is go to Boom97.3.com to sign up so you can start making $100 an hour.

00:00:16.600 Kick off your work day on a good note and a few extra sea notes.

00:00:20.480 Want some? Sign up.

00:00:22.260 I love you, Boom!

00:00:23.800 Approved by Alpine Credits.

00:00:25.560 Own your own home and eat a loan.

00:00:26.900 Alpine Credits can help.

00:00:28.140 Visit alpinecredits.ca.

00:00:30.880 Not only did we lose that conflict in Afghanistan, but we left a huge amount of weapons and capability in the country.

00:00:39.780 And the Taliban are more powerful than they were in 2001.

00:00:43.560 Not only that, we have imported tens of thousands of people with the same ideology as al-Qaeda or the Taliban into Britain. 0.59

00:00:55.400 We have a force of around 40,000 Islamists who hate this country. 0.92

00:01:02.620 That number is more than half in the British Army.

00:01:06.000 James Glancy, welcome to Trichnometry.

00:01:10.500 You have a fascinating story.

00:01:12.940 Royal Marine, filmmaker, Brexit party, MEP, lots of different things.

00:01:17.300 But the one thing we really wanted to talk to you about is you mentioned in your movie, actually, Afghanistan, that you sign up for the Royal Marines and a week later 9-11 happens.

00:01:29.040 And you end up going over to Afghanistan, which at the time you thought was just a war and a good thing to do. 1.00

00:01:35.220 And now you feel like not only did we lose that war, we're actually importing some of the people who beat us into this country. 0.99

00:01:44.460 I mean, if you think of our reason for going there, it was because of 9-11 and you had the Islamic movements around al-Qaeda hosted by the Taliban in Afghanistan.

00:02:01.020 We went there to remove those people and to try and kill that ideology.

00:02:08.020 And that felt like the right mission, the right thing to do, because clearly militant Islamism or Islamo-fascism, as it's also known, is an ideology which is fundamentally incompatible with the West of our way of life. 0.88

00:02:27.880 Now, we are in January 2025.

00:02:30.900 Not only did we lose that conflict in Afghanistan, but we left a huge amount of weapons and capability in the country.

00:02:40.780 And the Taliban, who we went to fight, are more powerful than they were in 2001.

00:02:46.920 They didn't even control the whole country in September 2001.

00:02:52.960 They controlled the southern part of the country.

00:02:55.500 The north was helped by the Northern Alliance.

00:02:57.800 Now the Northern Alliance doesn't exist.

00:02:59.720 They controlled the entire country and they'd be completely rearmed.

00:03:03.580 And all those extremists, okay, maybe not under the brand of al-Qaeda, but they still exist and they were able to operate freely in that country.

00:03:13.060 Not only that, we have imported tens of thousands of people with the same ideology as al-Qaeda or the Taliban, extremists, Islamists, into Britain.

00:03:27.620 And they live here amongst us on welfare in British taxpayer-paid housing, subsidised by us in our country.

00:03:38.920 I think it's 2020, the Home Office figures for the number of people on the terrorist watch list.

00:03:46.840 So Islamists on the terrorist watch list numbered just over 37,000.

00:03:51.180 That was the last time they reported the figure.

00:03:52.920 They don't report it anymore.

00:03:55.500 Bear in mind, we've cut the British Armed Forces from when I signed up.

00:03:58.740 I think the British Army is 105,000.

00:04:01.540 Now it's around 72,000 and in decline.

00:04:04.200 So essentially what we're saying is we have a force of around 40,000 Islamists who hate this country, who have been monitored by MI5 and security services.

00:04:17.700 Because in this country, that number is more than half in the British Army.

00:04:25.340 So to answer the question, do I think it was the right thing to invade Afghanistan? 0.58

00:04:31.220 It was the right thing to go there.

00:04:32.880 But this is not just a conflict loss.

00:04:36.060 This is a societal loss.

00:04:38.280 This has been a game-changing for Britain as a nation.

00:04:43.560 And you mentioned militant Islamism.

00:04:48.640 You're someone who was on the sharp end of that on the one hand, but you've also been to Afghanistan and I'm sure traveled more widely in the Middle East.

00:04:58.760 What is militant Islamism?

00:05:02.280 I think when I say militant Islamism, I mean the... 1.00

00:05:05.560 If you think of the full implementation of Sharia law, which is what the Taliban claim to be doing, which is the brutal suppression of women's rights.

00:05:20.200 The adherence to strict Islamic codes, including punishments, extreme punishments for anything from adultery, which will result in stoning, the cutting off of limbs for theft, the strict adherence to child education only really based on the Quran.

00:05:41.140 So no freedom of thought or freedom to access information outside of Islamic teachings.

00:05:48.940 And I already mentioned the suppression of women, but we're talking about an extremely religious society.

00:05:54.680 Obviously, there are no elections.

00:05:57.380 Everything is run by the mullahs or run by Islamic preachers in a very authoritarian structure. 0.99

00:06:07.780 And it's a very highly militarized state, controlled by oppression.

00:06:13.160 A far, far, far stricter interpretation than you'll see in Iran, which is Shia, but obviously the Taliban are Sunni.

00:06:21.040 But that's what I'm talking about.

00:06:22.940 The extreme implementation of the Sharia and extreme implementation of Islam. 0.79

00:06:31.460 That's what Afghanistan is.

00:06:33.760 And a lot of people in this country support that.

00:06:37.180 In fact, there are some very popular podcasters in Britain who support that.

00:06:42.720 People within the Five Pillars organization, which you'll be familiar with.

00:06:46.560 Some of those people have traveled recently to Afghanistan and have interviewed senior members of the Taliban.

00:06:57.060 James, can I pause you there?

00:06:58.120 Because there's people going to be listening who is a prick up.

00:07:00.860 They're going to go, what is a Five Pillars organization?

00:07:03.760 So for them and for me, can you explain what it is?

00:07:06.880 The Five Pillars is an Islamic network in Britain that represents, I would say, the more extreme forms of Islam and essentially like a pressure group and a media organization. 0.98

00:07:18.220 And I don't know too many details about it.

00:07:20.460 But all I know is that they very much support the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, Taliban run Afghanistan.

00:07:29.020 And just to continue this militant Islamism conversation, why is militant Islamism, in your opinion, a threat to us and a problem for us?

00:07:42.720 Well, I mean, Islam in itself, there are different forms.

00:07:51.520 It's like Christianity or any religion. 0.93

00:07:54.480 And the most extreme form of it is completely incompatible with a liberal democracy.

00:08:00.580 You know, it doesn't believe in free and fair elections.

00:08:05.720 It doesn't believe in rights.

00:08:08.640 It's attitude to things that have become agreed upon within the West.

00:08:13.580 The attitude to whether it's homosexuality towards women working to freedom of expression, freedom of speech.

00:08:22.720 It's completely diametrically opposed to that.

00:08:25.420 And in the same way as we wouldn't allow, we don't allow fascism to flourish because we believe it to be an extremist ideology, the extreme forms of Islam, militant Islam, or islo-fascism, as it's also known as, is completely incompatible with a fair, free, liberal democracy.

00:08:47.240 And yet, it's flourishing, and it's gained strength as a result of the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

00:08:58.580 It's been turbocharged.

00:09:00.340 And I think the really important thing to remember is that Bin Laden, this was Bin Laden's design. 0.99

00:09:08.440 He ensnared, trapped America to doing this. 0.77

00:09:12.340 He knew that by cause, through the 9-11 attacks, he knew if he could commit an atrocity that forced America to react in such an extreme way, he could draw America into the Middle East, into Asia, and that would turbocharge the fanatical elements of Islam. 0.99

00:09:34.440 And he has been proved 100% right.

00:09:37.760 That is a very interesting point.

00:09:40.320 So, looking back now, do you think the invasion of Afghanistan was a mistake?

00:09:47.220 The way we went about it, well, you know, the first phase, there would have been troops on the ground in 2001.

00:09:55.660 So that would have been, so September the 11th happened.

00:09:59.080 November, December, it's widely reported that US and British troops went on the ground, I think starting in Bagram, working with the Northern Alliance.

00:10:09.060 And that method of working with Afghans that wanted to get rid of the Taliban was successful.

00:10:16.120 So, getting rid of Al-Qaeda, their bases, forcing them to flee out of the Tora Bora caves, wherever they went, they killed large numbers of them.

00:10:25.880 That was successful.

00:10:27.440 Then 2003 happened, which was the invasion of Iraq.

00:10:31.140 And then we started to re-concentrate on Afghanistan, only about 2006, 2007 when I went.

00:10:37.360 Now, to me, it's not about, we, of course, should have hit those training bases and cleared them out.

00:10:45.420 But what we went into, which was a new phase of nation building, trying to make Afghanistan a liberal democracy, a country which is, society is hundreds of years behind Western or even other Middle Eastern societies.

00:11:01.700 We should try to impose our own values.

00:11:04.320 I think that was the mistake.

00:11:06.660 But if you take a bigger step back, you essentially had these neoconservative views.

00:11:11.960 And Tony Blair was very much part of this, was of liberal intervention, that we should be intervening in any state that we think is oppressive or doesn't align with our values.

00:11:20.540 And we should try and impose our way of life on these people.

00:11:23.560 That was the mistake.

00:11:24.400 Because what it shows is a complete disconnect from reality, from those people who think you can suddenly swoop into a country which has never had any form of democracy and just implement it.

00:11:36.980 And it's all going to be hunky-dory.

00:11:38.240 Yeah.

00:11:38.840 And, you know, this is one of the big problems of the British mindset is we might have lost the empire, but we still want to tell people what to do.

00:11:50.920 Whether you're left-wing or right-wing, we still want to impose our values and our thinking onto everybody.

00:11:57.100 We even see this in the Foreign Office today through what was DFID, but SCDO now, our foreign aid programs will be telling African nations.

00:12:08.540 And I was recently briefed about a program where, you know, we're telling them about LBGTQIA rights.

00:12:15.340 We're telling them about all sorts of liberal issues that matter to us, whereas these people are more worried about feeding themselves or about their security, say, in Iran.

00:12:25.440 But we're still pushing our values onto these people through development programs.

00:12:31.300 And I think that mindset that we must be telling other societies what to do and how to be is all pervasive in the British and now the American mindset.

00:12:42.500 And we've got a massive inability to think we've got huge numbers of problems in our society.

00:12:47.300 We should probably just withdraw from the world a bit and sort our own country out before we continue to tell people what to do.

00:12:53.800 It's also quite antagonistic as well, because what you're essentially doing is going over there and lecturing people about the things they're doing badly.

00:13:01.640 And they're quite, I'm sure they think to themselves, who are you to be doing that?

00:13:07.720 Yeah, I mean, look, I would have been part of the problem.

00:13:11.560 I was young.

00:13:12.680 I was excited about serving.

00:13:14.360 I, you know, I love the country.

00:13:15.640 I was absolutely abhorred by the scenes in 9-11.

00:13:18.980 I believe we're doing the right thing.

00:13:20.940 And I wanted to go and fight.

00:13:22.440 I want to go and fight these bad people.

00:13:27.020 There's something I want to come back to is how you can have a perfectly decent conversation with an Islamist or a member of the Taliban, because I have done that. 0.99

00:13:33.800 But, you know, I believe these people are evil and we wanted to, you know, we wanted to show them or get rid of them.

00:13:41.620 You know, we wanted to change them.

00:13:43.620 That was the original, the mindset we went over with.

00:13:46.300 We didn't go there with a mindset of let's understand the society.

00:13:51.100 And we didn't really think whether we should have been there trying to do what we're doing.

00:13:55.560 Very few people question that, especially in the military.

00:13:58.780 And, you know, I reckon I had a bit of an epiphany in around 2008 and my second tour of Afghanistan.

00:14:06.340 We were, I was in what was called Armist Support Group, which is a part of the Royal Marines.

00:14:12.320 We had these Viking vehicles, which were designed for amphibious operations.

00:14:16.660 They were inappropriate.

00:14:17.880 They were very good at going around the desert, but they were very inappropriate to when the conflict changed and they started using IEDs, improvised explosive devices, because they would destroy these vehicles.

00:14:28.940 But in the early phase, we were able to manoeuvre around the desert in southern Afghanistan and get in fights with the Taliban.

00:14:36.080 And it was really enjoyable as a commander to sort of have this sort of freedom and manoeuvre to fight.

00:14:41.840 But I remember working with the Green Berets on one particular operation and they had a target.

00:14:48.400 They wanted us as manoeuvre and fire support.

00:14:52.040 And we manoeuvred into the position.

00:14:54.240 And they went in to try and get this target.

00:14:57.860 And there's a little bit of a firefight.

00:14:59.800 And then we got started getting mortared from the other side of the Helmand River from a place called Kaliagaz, which was a sort of Taliban badland.

00:15:06.360 And then they thought one of the mortars was to the south of us in a different village.

00:15:13.100 And the American Green Beret, he had communications, which I think was either B-52 or maybe a B-1 bomber and a number of platforms.

00:15:26.160 They would have this stack of close air support.

00:15:29.840 And they think they identified one sole mortar that was every sort of two minutes dropping a mortar.

00:15:37.700 And it was quite close, but it wasn't effective.

00:15:39.460 And the guy called the fire control officer or the TAC-P, which is the guy that talks to the aircraft, called in a £2,000 bomb bracketed by two £500 bombs on this compound.

00:15:56.620 And we were all excited.

00:15:58.160 People had like these rudimentary cameras because no phones back then.

00:16:01.820 I think it was before GoPros.

00:16:03.380 Everyone was excited.

00:16:04.580 This thing comes in.

00:16:05.700 Boom.

00:16:07.420 Huge explosion.

00:16:08.380 And the Americans sort of whipping and everyone's going, yeah, come on, brilliant. 0.99

00:16:14.420 And then about two minutes later, as the dust was settling on this village, I just saw what looked like a family, a woman carrying things in their arms and just leaving really slowly.

00:16:26.880 And I just thought, it was the first time I thought we just used completely, or they just used completely unnecessary force to deal with one person mortaring us.

00:16:37.460 And I just thought, we might not be the good guys. 0.99

00:16:41.760 And secondly, if somebody did that to my family, where I grew up in Oxford, not too far away from here, I would vow to kill them for the rest of my life, all of them. 0.99

00:16:53.260 I would fight them for the rest of my life. 0.98

00:16:54.480 And that was the moment I thought, we're not going to win this.

00:16:58.400 We are so far away from home.

00:17:00.440 What are we doing?

00:17:01.620 And there was a really powerful moment in your documentary, which I encourage everyone to go and watch.

00:17:08.720 I think it's fabulous, where you said the words, we betrayed the Afghan people. 0.96

00:17:13.740 Yeah, I did.

00:17:16.360 And what I mean by that is, they would always say to us, our partners, you're not going to leave, are you?

00:17:22.500 You're going to stay with us.

00:17:23.760 And all the politicians and the military gave these big pledges, we'll stay the course.

00:17:28.840 It takes 20, 30 years.

00:17:30.280 And knowing, because it's going to be a long time to change this country, to get it standing on its own two feet, it was going to take decades.

00:17:42.860 But the people giving these pledges, politicians that are elected in five-year cycles, are saying, yeah, we're going to stay with you.

00:17:49.020 You know, you can't give that commitment in a democracy.

00:17:51.960 Military offices that are on tours of six, 12 months are giving this pledge, we're going to stay here, don't worry, you're partners.

00:17:57.320 They don't have the authority to say that.

00:18:00.280 And anyone that looks at the history of liberal democracies engaging in overseas conflict, let's look at Vietnam, you know that eventually the election is going to get fed up of this.

00:18:09.780 It's costly, and lives and money, and you know that we will withdraw, and the Taliban knew this as well. 0.64

00:18:18.340 When I say betrayed, I suppose in hindsight, it's obvious that we were going to leave Afghanistan.

00:18:24.440 It was the way in which we did it, in which we pulled the rug under the feet of young people. 0.99

00:18:33.520 So if you think, a lot of the Afghan population is below 30, unlike our aging population, it's a very young population.

00:18:40.360 So a large majority of them would have been born since 2001.

00:18:43.380 They were born into the hope that we gave them through the huge amount of economic aid, the security and structure that they could live in a different way in the cities like Kabul, Jalalabad, Mazar-Sharif.

00:18:55.580 Those places, they could go to university, women would go to school, university, you know, you'd have beauty salons and shops where women can shop for a variety of things. 1.00

00:19:05.500 And it was an amazing place to visit when I went back in 2020, before the withdrawal.

00:19:14.320 And by announcing that we're going to leave, or the Americans announcing in May 2020 that we're going to leave by 9-11, or September 11th, so quickly, it just shattered the country.

00:19:28.220 And it meant all those people that had come to expect us to stay for a bit longer were forced to very quickly evacuate and embolden the Taliban, embolden the extremists.

00:19:40.140 And that's what preceded or caused the complete collapse of the country and the Taliban to take over. 0.76

00:19:49.120 And so, of course, we were forced to try and help the people, the good people that we had built up, that we'd given hope to.

00:19:56.340 And I stepped in, as many veterans and people did in Britain and America, try and get these people who shared our values, shared our vision, try and get them to safety.

00:20:07.480 Because they would be the first people to be taken into the torture chambers of the Taliban, tortured and then executed.

00:20:16.260 So we sold them this vision, and then we just turned our back on them.

00:20:20.840 It was a great betrayal.

00:20:22.200 And I fear the same could happen in Ukraine.

00:20:26.340 At Trigonometry, we value expertise and integrity in everything that we do.

00:20:32.400 That's why we've partnered exclusively with Augusta Precious Metals in America.

00:20:37.260 Having met them personally, it's obvious to me why they're the best in the business.

00:20:41.720 Their expertise and commitment to transparency make them the ideal partner for anyone who's serious about protecting their wealth.

00:20:48.760 They help people like you protect their savings with gold, a tangible asset that has held its value through every financial storm ever.

00:20:59.220 With Augusta, it's not just about buying gold.

00:21:01.760 It's about understanding why gold matters.

00:21:04.520 They provide a free, no-strings-attached info kit that explains how diversifying your savings with a gold IRA can help shield your retirement savings from inflation and economic uncertainty.

00:21:18.120 But don't just take our word for it.

00:21:20.020 Augusta Precious Metals has earned thousands of five-star reviews and holds an A-plus rating with the BBB.

00:21:26.900 Their commitment to trust and transparency is second to none, pulling customer service above all else.

00:21:34.340 Don't wait for the next financial crisis to hit because one is coming sooner or later.

00:21:38.980 Text Trigger to 35052 to get your free info kit on gold IRAs and start securing your financial future today.

00:21:46.740 Once more, that's an SMS to 35052 and simply quote the word, trigger, because when it comes to your wealth, preparing for the future is always the smartest investment.

00:22:01.560 So on Afghanistan for the moment, in your documentary, one of the things that happened is you weren't really filming anything about the withdrawal because you didn't know it was going to happen.

00:22:09.880 You were there filming the documentary and then the withdrawal started to happen.

00:22:14.360 And one of the things that became immediately clear is everybody knew before the withdrawal happened that the Afghani security forces, the police, they had no chance against the Taliban, right?

00:22:30.700 They weren't being paid.

00:22:32.800 They weren't necessarily as just capable of defeating the Taliban on their own.

00:22:38.380 They all kept saying, we need your support, we need, right?

00:22:42.380 So do you think that when the Americans, President Biden, made the decision to pull out, he would have been advised that this was the likely outcome?

00:22:54.740 Why, I would, I think it's very important that we start having conversations with people in the decision-making process in America.

00:23:02.480 So I don't think that's happened.

00:23:03.420 I don't think really we really know the decision-making cycle of what they knew and what they didn't.

00:23:08.380 I think the fair assumption was that if we give the Afghan military and government no support, they will survive for about six to nine months or to the following year or limited support.

00:23:22.540 That was, I think that was the CIA interpretation of it.

00:23:26.200 Nobody thought they would fail immediately and it would collapse immediately.

00:23:32.940 But what difference does it make?

00:23:34.080 Okay, let's say it's six months.

00:23:35.920 The country's collapsed in six months instead of two weeks.

00:23:38.620 What difference does that make?

00:23:39.600 Well, it makes a difference on people escaping.

00:23:41.800 Yes, I suppose that's true.

00:23:43.020 And a smoother transfer of power.

00:23:46.660 I mean, look how quickly Syria has collapsed.

00:23:48.500 No one predicted that would happen.

00:23:50.120 I guess what I'm saying, James, sorry, you're absolutely right to point out that there would have been the opportunity to get more people to safety.

00:23:55.960 What I mean is from the bigger picture perspective, from guys like you going over there to deal with Al-Qaeda and the Taliban, 20 years on, if we pull out, you'd want all of that blood and treasure and everything to have actually been worth it. 0.88

00:24:14.240 And for that to be the case, you would have had to leave the country in a sustainable, better place.

00:24:20.760 There would have been a way.

00:24:22.000 What was the way?

00:24:23.000 Well, you have to leave a small number of troops, special forces, advisors, intelligence, people there as a deterrent, keep Bagram Air Base, and you still have to supply a large amount of cash to the Afghan government in order to keep certain areas of Afghanistan free from the Taliban.

00:24:44.340 So assume the South is gone.

00:24:46.340 That was always going to be Taliban territory.

00:24:48.200 I think the strategy could have been to essentially balkanize or split up the country.

00:24:56.000 Not a popular view, but we could have kept some areas free.

00:25:00.420 What that would have prevented would have been mass population movements, mass numbers of refugees going into Iran, going into Pakistan, making their way to Europe.

00:25:11.020 It would mean that there were safe places for women, for ethnic minorities, because Afghanistan is a melting pot of cultures and ethnic groups.

00:25:20.200 That should have been the strategy.

00:25:24.280 Support the Afghan government, however bad and corrupt it is, to secure parts of Afghanistan where people want to have this way of life because they didn't want to have this way of life. 0.78

00:25:36.340 And the government in all parts of Afghanistan, specifically in places like Kandahar, Helmand.

00:25:43.020 That's what the strategy should have been, is how do we prevent complete crisis? 0.99

00:25:47.720 Can I ask a really stupid question? 0.98

00:25:49.860 You mentioned that the Taliban have the heartland in the South, and we went in to get rid of the Taliban, from what I remember, right? 1.00

00:25:59.260 You went in, you literally went in, to get rid of the Taliban.

00:26:03.880 20 years on, you're saying, well, we just have to accept the Taliban and control this entire part of the country. 0.74

00:26:10.140 So, why is that?

00:26:13.960 Why couldn't we get rid of the Taliban? 0.98

00:26:15.440 The thing is, when I first went to Afghanistan in 2006, and then when I went, you know, 6, 7, 8, 11, 12 was when I was there.

00:26:22.560 If I'd asked what was the mission, if I'd asked that to my troops, they'd have all given you different answers.

00:26:29.240 Because when we, we didn't go to, we went there to get rid of Al-Qaeda.

00:26:32.820 Yeah.

00:26:34.440 You know, the Americans got rid of Al-Qaeda very quickly, or pushed them out.

00:26:38.520 Okay, yeah, they were embedded in pockets around, especially up in Euristan and Kunar on the east of Afghanistan.

00:26:43.720 But we were very effective at that job, and we were very effective about pushing out the Taliban government.

00:26:51.160 They went to Qaeda, went to Pakistan.

00:26:53.960 But the reality is, the Taliban are an ethnic group in southern Afghanistan.

00:27:00.760 They are the Pashtuns, and that extends across into Pakistan as well.

00:27:06.260 And a lot of people believe in that ideology, so you can't exterminate a people.

00:27:12.840 And that, the misconception is that we didn't go to fight the Taliban, we went to remove them from government.

00:27:19.560 And what we should have done was work out a sort of way to include them in the future of Afghanistan.

00:27:25.040 The Pashtun people, the hardline Pashtuns who are, who believe in Sharia, there would have been a federal way to have worked. 0.96

00:27:32.660 But we did, but I think it was Donald Rumsfeld, was it Donald Rumsfeld, who is dead now, but he did not want to include the Taliban in any form of Afghan government.

00:27:47.900 In the same way they did this debarthication in Iraq, we won't include any of them. 0.71

00:27:53.160 And that ended up in the creation of ISIS.

00:27:56.520 If you don't accommodate some of your own enemies in the future of the country, when they have a big stake, there's huge numbers of them,

00:28:04.360 then you essentially, we allowed the Taliban to recreate itself as a resistance force to our occupation.

00:28:12.960 James, do you think as well, because I think there's one part of the puzzle that people never discuss is the rampant corruption within the Afghanistan government.

00:28:23.700 And you look, and your movie actually shows this really tragically, like these guys who were protecting the walls of the Kabul.

00:28:35.540 And you look at their equipment, their equipment was terrible.

00:28:39.480 And trillions upon trillions of dollars was pumped into this country.

00:28:43.460 How much of this was the people at the top just creaming off the money?

00:28:48.600 Well, I mean, again, it's one of those things that has been swept under the carpet.

00:28:55.180 It's that huge amount, huge amounts of money is in Dubai and officials have, you know, I know one family, Afghan family,

00:29:03.760 who have an apartment or apartments in the Burj Khalifa.

00:29:08.940 That's not cheap real estate in Dubai.

00:29:12.440 And now the Taliban have stealing loads of money.

00:29:15.740 I mean, they've got apartments in Dubai and in Qatar and they're sending, some of them are sending their daughters, would you believe, to be educated there.

00:29:24.100 But so, of course, corruption was huge and a massive problem.

00:29:28.900 And I think it's something we struggled to get a grip of.

00:29:31.440 How much of a problem, it was systemic.

00:29:35.280 I think that was one of the, that's one of the greatest issues you're dealing with when you're trying to nation build.

00:29:40.000 But I think that was the main problem.

00:29:43.240 Why the mission creep, the mission creep from removing Al-Qaeda or removing or ensuring that Afghanistan was a place that terrorism couldn't flourish. 0.63

00:29:53.240 Essentially, that was the main mission.

00:29:55.920 And then it became, well, to do that, we need to rebuild a new country.

00:29:59.880 That being the concept, so we now need to fight Taliban because they're going to stop a new nation flourishing. 0.95

00:30:04.840 But we failed in all that.

00:30:06.140 Yeah, so the corruption thing has been a huge issue and it resulted, what I physically saw was soldiers in the South not being paid, ghost armies.

00:30:20.260 So commanders or regional governors would say, I have 5,000 troops here, so I'm drawing the salaries of 5,000 people.

00:30:28.080 And yet, when we travelled around Kandahar, we never saw a body of men larger than maybe 90 to 150 troops.

00:30:41.540 There should have been a core of Afghan National Army troops in Kandahar.

00:30:47.980 There should have been 7,000, but the governor said, well, there's probably about 1,000 Afghan troops covering a huge area, an area, I mean, probably almost the size of Wales between Kandahar and Helmand, just 1,000 troops.

00:31:04.720 And there were going to be 7,000.

00:31:05.800 So, you know, the deceit and lies of the Afghan partners or the Afghan government was systemic.

00:31:13.120 And I don't think, I would like to know, did America, did the CIA know when they say we've built the Afghan National Army up to 350,000, did they know it was probably only really nominate, really, they really had the capability of about maybe 75,000 troops?

00:31:31.200 And of those who were actually any good and wanted to fight, maybe that was 25,000, because some really did want to fight and a lot of others didn't.

00:31:42.300 What did we know?

00:31:44.660 We don't know the answer to that because there's no inquiry in Britain, and I'm not sure there's going to be an inquiry in the USA about this.

00:31:50.640 Because, to me, corruption is like a cancer.

00:31:54.080 Once it is allowed to spread, it corrupts everything and it destroys the society.

00:31:58.560 So, I guess my question to you is, with this rampant level of corruption, wasn't this project doomed to failure?

00:32:06.100 Yeah, it was.

00:32:06.640 But at the same time, it's a medieval society.

00:32:08.960 And I don't mean that to denigrate Afghanistan, but parts of it are the way it lives and operates are hundreds and hundreds of years separated from the way we think.

00:32:19.160 So, we're there trying to teach them things and to operate in a way which is completely alien to them.

00:32:24.520 So, what do you mean by that, James?

00:32:25.940 When you say medieval society, what do you mean?

00:32:28.560 Okay, so you think a typical remote village in Helmand province, or Kandahar, prior to 2007 or 2008, wouldn't have had electricity.

00:32:42.600 Or if they did have electricity, it would be because they were stealing it from a power station from the Helmand Valley or the Helmand River,

00:32:53.000 where there was power coming down from Kajakitan.

00:32:55.720 So, a lot of them would live mainly by subsistence, what they could grow or have a small amount of money from crops that they could sell or opium in order to buy food.

00:33:06.920 There might be in that mud compound. 1.00

00:33:09.440 So, they'd make their own house out of mud.

00:33:12.520 There's obviously no sanitary facilities, no education for women. 1.00

00:33:17.260 They would be confined to their compound.

00:33:20.060 And the children would be educated at a madrasa, so would receive religious education.

00:33:27.220 And that's the way the village would operate.

00:33:31.740 You know, the person controlling that village would be the mullah. 1.00

00:33:36.100 The most important is a religious person.

00:33:39.480 And very few of them would travel outside.

00:33:42.520 They might travel to neighboring villages, but it would be run on a tribal... 0.97

00:33:46.220 These are very tribal families, obviously, marry within the tribe.

00:33:53.200 So, the power is within the tribes and subset of the tribes.

00:33:57.520 And so, these are things that we might recognize this from maybe the Assini in Britain.

00:34:05.440 So, prior to when the Romans came to Britain, we were a very tribal nation in Britain.

00:34:12.180 Now, I'm not an expert on this, but Britain wasn't an entity as a nation.

00:34:17.500 It was tribal.

00:34:18.380 And I think that's what parts of Afghanistan are like.

00:34:22.660 You know, they don't see themselves as Afghan.

00:34:24.900 They were part of a certain tribe.

00:34:26.880 The Pashtun or...

00:34:28.240 Well, yeah, but Pashtun, but below that, you know, the family names, the Pashtuns fight each other.

00:34:32.840 They're brutal to each other in the South.

00:34:35.120 And there is a very good book, a friend of mine wrote, Ben Aitchison,

00:34:38.940 The Pashtun Tribes of Afghanistan.

00:34:41.520 You know, it breaks down.

00:34:43.680 Even further.

00:34:44.220 So, I think we probably need to look at Britain, pre the Romans, to understand what we're dealing with.

00:34:51.700 And now...

00:34:52.860 That sounds like it'd be quite difficult to get democracy going in that sort of environment.

00:34:58.100 And that's why it was absurd.

00:35:00.660 I remember, like, some general talking about, oh, we're opening an internet cafe in Hillman.

00:35:05.820 And I just think, you know, you think back, is this serious?

00:35:13.800 We're opening an internet cafe in Hillman.

00:35:15.740 I mean, obviously, the computers aren't there and it doesn't exist anymore.

00:35:19.820 But that's the mentality.

00:35:22.140 We can liberalise these people and educate them from...

00:35:25.420 Imagine going back in time and saying to Yossini, we've got the Human Rights Act now.

00:35:30.780 Guys, what do you think of this?

00:35:32.180 It just doesn't...

00:35:33.220 You can't put two and two together.

00:35:34.640 It's delusional, is what it is.

00:35:36.200 It's completely delusional.

00:35:38.060 And now that Afghanistan has fallen, if we just go at a macro level and we look at it globally,

00:35:46.280 what effect is that having on our country, the US, the Middle East?

00:35:50.420 Because it's going to have shockwaves which are going to reverberate.

00:35:54.240 I feel like Afghanistan's been massively brushed under the carpet.

00:35:57.800 And then we've had another distraction, which is Ukraine.

00:36:00.480 It's not a distraction.

00:36:02.180 It's an important, tragic conflict.

00:36:04.980 But it's allowed us to try and find confidence in our foreign policy and potentially our armed forces

00:36:11.980 because this is a great loss, what has happened in Afghanistan.

00:36:16.780 And why do I say that?

00:36:19.200 Not because strategically Afghanistan is in any way important economically to Britain.

00:36:24.860 It's not.

00:36:26.160 It's thousands of miles away.

00:36:28.040 But because it has the signal that's sent out to the international community and to our adversaries

00:36:34.880 is that we are incredibly weak and America is weak and can be defeated.

00:36:39.420 The signal that the evacuation of Kabul sent out and the fact that Biden announced it without consulting Britain

00:36:46.540 is that if anyone thought that we were a poodle to America before 2020,

00:36:52.880 it's very clear that we have absolutely no influence on American foreign policy

00:36:57.340 and we just get dragged around.

00:36:59.040 You know, it's very embarrassing for Britain.

00:37:00.460 But, you know, when I joined the military, or if I think back to the 90s,

00:37:04.500 the reverence of which the British armed forces were held in,

00:37:06.700 where the best in the world, were undefeatable, was clearly being broken.

00:37:11.180 And by concentrating on a land warfare, on counterterrorism,

00:37:16.540 we orientated our armed forces towards that type of conflict

00:37:20.020 whilst ignoring core capabilities for interstate warfare.

00:37:27.100 Meanwhile, China has been building up its military.

00:37:29.700 Russia has been watching.

00:37:31.720 And so our ability to conduct, to protect ourselves,

00:37:35.300 and to invest in that equipment just didn't happen.

00:37:38.360 And so our armed forces have declined to an embarrassing state.

00:37:44.820 It's truly tragic what's happened.

00:37:47.240 But then you think, you know, we went to fight Islamism over there 1.00

00:37:51.040 because it was mainly in Afghanistan.

00:37:53.740 And yet at the same time, the British government and Western governments

00:37:58.480 have allowed hundreds of thousands, if not millions,

00:38:02.760 of people with those views, with those cultures or really extreme Islamic views

00:38:10.280 to come to our country. 0.84

00:38:11.880 So where before the problem was over there,

00:38:15.380 the problem has now been imported to Britain.

00:38:17.700 In 2025, as I said before, we have a huge number of people

00:38:20.580 on the Home Office terrorist watch list.

00:38:23.040 But we've imported millions of people from those cultures to our country.

00:38:27.820 We fundamentally changed the nature of Britain.

00:38:31.440 All the while, we were sending our young men and women

00:38:34.780 to fight a futile campaign.

00:38:37.180 So the ramifications of the loss and the societal change

00:38:41.020 that has happened as a result of massive immigration,

00:38:43.300 because we've been destabilizing regions,

00:38:46.580 forcing people to want to leave those countries

00:38:48.320 and seek a better life in the West, which you can't blame them for.

00:38:52.320 I don't think the ramification...

00:38:53.600 People were just starting to understand it

00:38:55.760 and we're seeing a reaction and return of right-wing politics

00:38:59.660 and parties across Europe.

00:39:01.080 But I don't think we fully understood

00:39:03.320 just how catastrophic the loss in Afghanistan and Iraq

00:39:09.120 has been for the West.

00:39:10.740 Can I come back to the epiphany that you had

00:39:14.080 when you saw the Green Berets drop that bomb to deal with the mortar?

00:39:19.000 We had a friend of ours, Kelsey Siren, on the show. 0.74

00:39:23.380 She's a Canadian veteran.

00:39:25.360 She served as well.

00:39:26.860 And we had a very interesting conversation with her.

00:39:29.020 One of the questions that I asked her is,

00:39:30.740 is the West ever going to win another war?

00:39:32.840 And the reason I ask this is,

00:39:34.940 we've got superior technology,

00:39:37.000 and I'm sure we've got great training,

00:39:38.500 and it's not in any way to denigrate the service of you

00:39:43.180 and people like you.

00:39:45.020 But I guess if war is hell

00:39:49.080 and China and Russia have no problem doing exactly that thing, right?

00:39:56.420 And you mentioned Vietnam

00:39:58.260 and the fact that eventually democracies get fed up

00:40:00.760 of the body counts and the body bags and all the rest of it.

00:40:04.420 Are we ever going to win another war?

00:40:06.140 Well, what is war?

00:40:07.880 In a limited small war,

00:40:09.600 so we got involved in Sierra Leone,

00:40:11.560 which actually proved out to be quite successful

00:40:13.240 against a small ragtag group called the West Side Boys.

00:40:18.460 Could we even prosecute that type of operation now?

00:40:21.520 Back then, we had a navy which could deploy force overseas.

00:40:25.560 We've got rid of HMS Ocean,

00:40:27.580 which is our amphibious platform.

00:40:30.440 We've got rid of our HMS Albion and Bulwark. 0.85

00:40:33.440 So our ability to deploy even limited force

00:40:35.360 like we did back then in 2001,

00:40:37.060 we don't have that anymore.

00:40:38.800 Could Britain win a war?

00:40:39.660 Absolutely not,

00:40:40.400 because we don't have an industrial base.

00:40:43.260 We've closed down our coal mines,

00:40:46.420 our steel production.

00:40:47.340 All the methods,

00:40:48.460 you need logistics and you need industry

00:40:50.180 to support warfare.

00:40:54.080 Because of net zero fanaticism,

00:40:56.440 we've closed down our industry.

00:40:57.660 And to win a big, large-scale war,

00:41:00.960 it's about your ability to produce weaponry en masse

00:41:03.980 and throw it into the grinder. 0.99

00:41:06.060 And then it's about your ability

00:41:07.120 to recruit people that want to fight.

00:41:08.640 Now, I'm not sure the current generation of Brits

00:41:11.920 really would want to fight

00:41:13.520 or feel any cause they're attached to.

00:41:15.640 And then you have this big problem

00:41:16.860 that we've imported so many people 1.00

00:41:18.400 from different cultures,

00:41:19.220 you'd probably find that you'd need

00:41:20.280 a massive home guard anyway to control them

00:41:22.280 because you'd have riots or conflict

00:41:24.500 on the streets anyway.

00:41:26.080 I don't think we are a united nation

00:41:29.020 as a society or even have an identity

00:41:30.720 that we could find a cause

00:41:32.540 that we unite to fight against.

00:41:34.540 So Britain itself,

00:41:35.840 could we fight and win a war?

00:41:38.720 It depends what the cause is.

00:41:41.120 Well, the answer is probably no.

00:41:42.740 I think that's why we're trying

00:41:44.640 to orientate ourselves to say,

00:41:46.720 well, we're always going to fight

00:41:47.620 as part of NATO,

00:41:49.600 which there's no such thing

00:41:51.680 as NATO about America.

00:41:53.680 NATO's future isn't assured

00:41:55.040 under Trump.

00:41:57.100 I don't think we've just fully,

00:41:58.600 fully understood

00:42:00.600 just how significant change

00:42:03.480 in society and Britain has been

00:42:05.160 and in the West.

00:42:06.860 But the short answer is no,

00:42:08.640 we probably couldn't win a war.

00:42:11.140 Could we retake the Falklands?

00:42:13.040 No.

00:42:14.380 Although Argentina's probably 0.54

00:42:15.760 not capable of taking it itself.

00:42:17.780 There are,

00:42:18.220 what is the armed forces for

00:42:22.420 if it isn't to win a war

00:42:23.380 or defend ourselves?

00:42:24.240 I think these are fundamental questions

00:42:26.080 we need to start asking ourselves.

00:42:28.420 Give me one minute

00:42:29.520 to tell you about Senalytics 0.66

00:42:31.080 and why they're being called

00:42:32.460 the biggest discovery

00:42:33.600 of our time

00:42:34.520 for promoting healthy aging

00:42:36.320 and enhancing

00:42:37.420 your physical prime.

00:42:39.280 As a middle-aged man,

00:42:41.220 middle-aged man,

00:42:41.980 who wrote this script?

00:42:43.860 Look,

00:42:44.660 we all have big goals,

00:42:45.900 but let's be honest,

00:42:46.780 the aging process

00:42:47.780 isn't our friend

00:42:48.660 when it comes to

00:42:49.380 endless energy

00:42:50.100 and productivity.

00:42:51.380 That's why I use

00:42:52.360 Qualiocenolytic.

00:42:53.900 As we age,

00:42:54.760 everyone accumulates

00:42:56.060 senescent cells,

00:42:57.320 also known as

00:42:58.040 zombie cells.

00:42:59.220 These old, 0.78

00:42:59.920 worn-out cells

00:43:00.720 cause symptoms of aging

00:43:02.000 like aches,

00:43:02.720 slow recovery,

00:43:03.540 and sluggish energy.

00:43:04.880 They take up space

00:43:05.960 and nutrients

00:43:06.560 from healthy cells.

00:43:07.620 Much like pruning

00:43:08.980 dead leaves off a plant,

00:43:10.660 Qualiocenolytic

00:43:11.600 removes these

00:43:12.460 senescent cells,

00:43:13.500 allowing healthy cells

00:43:14.780 to thrive,

00:43:15.740 and you only need

00:43:16.820 to take it

00:43:17.320 two days a month.

00:43:18.540 The formula

00:43:19.060 is non-GMO,

00:43:20.320 vegan,

00:43:20.920 gluten-free,

00:43:21.780 and designed

00:43:22.220 to maximize

00:43:23.000 the combined effects

00:43:24.320 of its ingredients.

00:43:25.480 Plus,

00:43:26.180 it comes with

00:43:26.740 a 100-day

00:43:27.420 money-back guarantee.

00:43:29.060 Since I've started

00:43:29.780 using Qualiocenolytic,

00:43:31.420 I've felt more energetic,

00:43:32.740 more productive,

00:43:33.720 and my girlfriend

00:43:34.820 tells me

00:43:35.440 I'm now somewhat

00:43:36.560 mostly bearable.

00:43:37.920 Just a little joke,

00:43:38.880 don't have a girlfriend.

00:43:40.080 Plus,

00:43:40.740 those middle-aged 0.64

00:43:41.540 aches and pains,

00:43:43.060 virtually gone.

00:43:44.400 Resist aging

00:43:45.320 at the cellular level

00:43:46.560 and try

00:43:47.260 Qualiocenolytic.

00:43:48.820 Go to

00:43:49.280 qualiolife.com

00:43:50.900 slash trick

00:43:51.600 for up to

00:43:52.220 50% off

00:43:53.580 and use code

00:43:54.640 TRIGGER

00:43:55.060 at checkout

00:43:55.500 for an additional

00:43:56.760 15% off.

00:43:58.680 It's also available

00:43:59.860 at select

00:44:00.840 GNC locations

00:44:02.240 near you.

00:44:03.240 That's

00:44:03.660 Q-U-A-L-I-A 1.00

00:44:07.380 life.com

00:44:09.060 slash

00:44:09.660 trig

00:44:09.960 for an extra

00:44:10.840 15%

00:44:11.940 off your purchase.

00:44:13.540 Thanks to Qualia

00:44:14.320 for sponsoring

00:44:15.020 today's episode.

00:44:16.200 What you've gone

00:44:19.220 through,

00:44:19.660 and you've done

00:44:20.060 it very well

00:44:21.200 and very methodically,

00:44:23.080 all the words

00:44:25.000 that keep coming

00:44:25.780 into my head

00:44:26.460 are self-sabotage.

00:44:28.500 we've absolutely

00:44:30.640 crippled 1.00

00:44:31.720 our society,

00:44:33.520 our ability

00:44:34.400 to defend

00:44:35.060 ourselves,

00:44:35.780 our social

00:44:36.320 cohesion,

00:44:37.140 our sense

00:44:37.500 of identity.

00:44:39.220 Well,

00:44:39.380 that's exactly

00:44:39.880 what's happened

00:44:40.380 over the last

00:44:40.920 20 years.

00:44:42.600 Since

00:44:42.920 1997,

00:44:44.180 we have

00:44:45.160 100%

00:44:46.780 undermined

00:44:47.780 our international

00:44:48.440 credibility,

00:44:49.800 our armed forces

00:44:50.520 which have been

00:44:51.120 in decline,

00:44:52.540 our industrial

00:44:53.260 capacity,

00:44:54.540 our ability

00:44:55.160 to protect

00:44:55.940 our borders,

00:44:57.140 to deport

00:44:57.660 people that

00:44:58.460 hate this

00:44:58.960 country,

00:44:59.680 have been

00:44:59.920 completely

00:45:00.260 undermined

00:45:00.720 by things

00:45:01.120 like the

00:45:01.360 Human Rights

00:45:01.860 Act,

00:45:02.100 the ECHR,

00:45:03.440 our social

00:45:04.140 cohesion's

00:45:04.720 been undermined,

00:45:06.020 our national

00:45:06.600 identity's been

00:45:07.920 undermined,

00:45:08.500 all these things

00:45:09.300 have virtually

00:45:10.180 disappeared.

00:45:12.540 The level

00:45:14.240 of self-sabotage

00:45:15.240 continues to

00:45:16.880 play itself out

00:45:17.600 week on week.

00:45:18.300 At the moment,

00:45:18.820 we're talking

00:45:19.240 about we are

00:45:20.140 now giving away

00:45:21.000 a strategic

00:45:21.580 asset in the

00:45:22.220 Chagos Islands,

00:45:23.280 which is the

00:45:24.020 British Indian

00:45:24.720 Overseas Territory,

00:45:25.900 which has a

00:45:26.740 US base

00:45:27.960 there,

00:45:28.840 a base from

00:45:29.660 which you can

00:45:30.320 launch nuclear

00:45:31.620 bombers or 0.57

00:45:32.560 F-18s or

00:45:33.660 other aircraft

00:45:34.860 which actually

00:45:35.740 were involved

00:45:37.080 in the war

00:45:37.540 on terror

00:45:37.960 back in

00:45:38.840 2001 onwards.

00:45:40.420 We're now

00:45:40.860 giving that

00:45:41.480 away for no

00:45:42.060 good reason

00:45:42.600 to the

00:45:43.640 Mauritians,

00:45:44.620 who don't have

00:45:45.160 a legitimate

00:45:45.760 claim over it.

00:45:46.700 But it's an

00:45:47.200 act of self-sabotage

00:45:48.220 by this Labour

00:45:48.860 government.

00:45:49.600 Why are they

00:45:49.940 doing that?

00:45:50.280 You say for no

00:45:50.720 good reason.

00:45:51.600 So what's

00:45:52.500 happened is

00:45:53.100 the Mauritian

00:45:55.920 government has

00:45:56.720 launched a

00:45:57.180 claim in the

00:45:57.820 UN saying

00:45:59.080 that they

00:46:00.040 should have

00:46:01.740 sovereign

00:46:02.280 territorial rights

00:46:03.240 over it

00:46:03.800 because a

00:46:04.620 bad deal

00:46:05.120 was done

00:46:05.680 when the

00:46:07.640 Chagos was 0.97

00:46:08.180 split away

00:46:08.740 or the

00:46:10.260 islands

00:46:11.760 during

00:46:12.580 decolonisation

00:46:13.520 when Britain

00:46:14.500 was handing

00:46:15.080 back territories.

00:46:16.200 We kept

00:46:16.460 the Chagos

00:46:17.040 and the

00:46:17.980 Mauritians

00:46:18.320 formed the

00:46:19.200 government

00:46:19.440 and they

00:46:19.820 claim that

00:46:20.960 they should

00:46:21.280 have it.

00:46:21.660 It has

00:46:23.800 been Britain's 0.87

00:46:25.480 sovereign territory

00:46:26.600 for 200 years

00:46:27.540 but what

00:46:27.880 happened was

00:46:28.580 a group of

00:46:29.940 human rights

00:46:31.200 lawyers like

00:46:31.800 Philip Sands

00:46:32.780 Casey who's

00:46:33.900 friends with

00:46:34.980 Keir Starmer

00:46:36.640 have gone

00:46:38.340 into bat for

00:46:39.540 the Mauritian

00:46:39.980 government at

00:46:40.560 the UN

00:46:40.960 and taken

00:46:41.660 Britain to

00:46:42.160 court to

00:46:43.440 say that

00:46:43.900 Britain should

00:46:44.400 give away

00:46:47.260 the Chagos to

00:46:47.860 Britain.

00:46:48.160 Now the

00:46:49.380 UN sided

00:46:50.860 with

00:46:51.580 Mauritius

00:46:51.960 and then

00:46:52.920 ruled in 0.94

00:46:53.780 a non-binding

00:46:54.380 ruling that

00:46:54.940 we should

00:46:55.260 give the

00:46:55.620 Chagos to

00:46:56.560 Mauritius.

00:46:57.420 You've got to

00:46:57.840 remember that

00:46:58.760 the United

00:46:59.340 Nations is

00:47:00.800 infiltrated and

00:47:02.060 heavily influenced

00:47:02.620 by China,

00:47:03.360 by Russia,

00:47:03.880 by Venezuela,

00:47:04.800 lots of

00:47:05.140 countries that

00:47:06.020 hate us and

00:47:07.140 want to

00:47:07.520 undermine us,

00:47:08.580 ours and

00:47:09.000 American power.

00:47:09.780 So that

00:47:10.040 ruling could

00:47:10.860 have been

00:47:11.120 ignored but

00:47:12.160 for some

00:47:12.540 reason Liz

00:47:13.620 Trust and

00:47:14.140 James

00:47:14.460 Cleverley

00:47:14.900 decided to

00:47:15.560 start into

00:47:16.140 negotiations before

00:47:17.100 they were

00:47:17.440 quashed by

00:47:17.840 David Cameron.

00:47:19.000 When Labour

00:47:19.660 came into

00:47:20.120 government they

00:47:21.640 secretly reopened

00:47:22.920 negotiations in

00:47:23.960 order to give it

00:47:24.540 away as quickly

00:47:25.080 as possible and

00:47:26.500 announced last

00:47:27.080 October that

00:47:27.700 their deal had

00:47:28.220 been done.

00:47:29.580 There's been some

00:47:30.380 complications with

00:47:31.140 that but this

00:47:31.860 week it's going to

00:47:32.460 be announced that

00:47:33.100 we're signed to

00:47:33.860 give away.

00:47:34.580 We're now paying

00:47:35.600 the Mauritian

00:47:37.860 government $9

00:47:38.760 billion over the

00:47:39.740 course of 100

00:47:40.380 years to rent

00:47:42.400 back that base,

00:47:43.580 the Diego

00:47:44.880 Garcia base,

00:47:45.880 from the

00:47:47.300 Mauritians.

00:47:48.040 So sovereign

00:47:48.760 territory we

00:47:49.340 own, we're

00:47:50.580 now going to

00:47:50.960 pay Mauritius

00:47:51.680 for that base.

00:47:54.960 To rent it

00:47:55.460 off them once

00:47:56.120 we're going

00:47:56.500 back.

00:47:57.560 This is what I

00:47:58.320 mean, when you

00:47:58.780 talk about

00:47:59.000 self-sabotage,

00:48:00.120 that is against

00:48:01.240 the British

00:48:01.640 national interest,

00:48:03.080 it's against the

00:48:04.560 strategic interest

00:48:06.020 of our biggest

00:48:06.700 ally, America,

00:48:08.660 it makes no

00:48:09.740 sense whatsoever

00:48:10.620 and it also

00:48:11.640 means that if

00:48:13.000 you give

00:48:13.500 Mauritius

00:48:14.000 sovereign control

00:48:15.040 of the Chagos

00:48:15.660 because it's

00:48:16.020 an island

00:48:16.340 archipelago,

00:48:17.300 the Chinese

00:48:17.920 could potentially

00:48:18.540 put their own

00:48:19.100 base on there

00:48:19.660 and there's

00:48:19.880 nothing we can

00:48:20.320 do about it.

00:48:21.300 How much of

00:48:21.760 this, James,

00:48:22.260 do you think

00:48:22.580 is ideology?

00:48:23.680 A lot of

00:48:24.200 it's ideology.

00:48:25.640 So if you

00:48:26.720 look at Blair

00:48:28.880 and you look at

00:48:30.900 a lot of the

00:48:32.000 Labour Party

00:48:32.680 and you go back

00:48:35.060 to when they

00:48:35.480 were at

00:48:35.800 university and

00:48:37.040 they were just

00:48:38.700 leaving university,

00:48:40.240 a lot of them

00:48:40.520 were Fabian

00:48:41.040 socialists or

00:48:41.680 members of the

00:48:42.140 Conservative Party.

00:48:42.920 So actively

00:48:44.060 anti-the West,

00:48:45.980 actively anti-Britain,

00:48:48.340 wanted to see

00:48:48.980 decolonisation.

00:48:50.240 Wait, members of

00:48:51.280 the Conservative Party?

00:48:52.140 So did I say

00:48:52.720 the Communist Party?

00:48:55.160 There's not much

00:48:55.720 difference nowadays.

00:48:57.900 It's kind of

00:48:58.460 interchangeable at this point.

00:49:01.380 They were Fabian 0.89

00:49:02.880 socialists who were

00:49:03.560 members of the

00:49:04.140 Communist Party.

00:49:04.720 Communist Party.

00:49:05.540 Or maybe they were

00:49:06.800 Fabians or former 1.00

00:49:08.180 communists and they

00:49:10.300 advocate either

00:49:11.820 social democracy by

00:49:13.020 taking over the

00:49:13.700 institutions and

00:49:15.780 egalitarianism.

00:49:18.080 It's essentially,

00:49:19.240 it means taking

00:49:21.000 over the organs of

00:49:23.880 power and

00:49:25.360 undermining

00:49:26.380 Western values,

00:49:27.740 Conservative values,

00:49:28.660 Christian values,

00:49:29.760 and creating this

00:49:31.400 international order

00:49:32.560 based on

00:49:33.900 egalitarianism,

00:49:35.360 socialism.

00:49:36.300 And that is

00:49:36.920 basically what has

00:49:38.420 happened.

00:49:39.380 So they're doing

00:49:40.020 equity at the

00:49:40.860 global level.

00:49:41.860 Yes, equity at a

00:49:43.280 global level and

00:49:44.100 that's what's

00:49:44.460 undermining Britain.

00:49:45.240 That's interesting.

00:49:46.240 But coming back to my

00:49:47.480 question about us being

00:49:48.380 able to win a war,

00:49:49.040 I think your point

00:49:49.720 about net zero

00:49:51.400 doesn't get emphasised

00:49:52.900 enough, actually.

00:49:54.480 We can't make our

00:49:55.540 own steel.

00:49:57.580 How are you going to

00:49:58.460 fight a war if you

00:49:59.560 can't make your own

00:50:00.520 military-grade steel?

00:50:01.700 Well, they're probably

00:50:02.100 going to be able to make

00:50:02.620 woke steel.

00:50:03.540 Woke steel.

00:50:04.140 Well, I'm sure that

00:50:04.880 will help in the

00:50:07.840 woke wars, I'm sure.

00:50:09.000 There are electric

00:50:10.240 blast furnaces.

00:50:11.540 I hope that works.

00:50:13.120 Yeah.

00:50:13.760 But I am for

00:50:18.160 electrification and

00:50:19.860 cleaner forms of

00:50:21.140 energy.

00:50:21.760 But I'm not for it

00:50:23.320 at the expense of

00:50:24.680 British security and

00:50:26.480 British industry.

00:50:28.160 And what seems to

00:50:29.180 have happened is the

00:50:31.500 argument for ensuring

00:50:32.980 that we can defend

00:50:34.820 ourselves and maintain

00:50:36.460 critical industries has

00:50:38.700 just been thrown to

00:50:40.620 the side for net zero

00:50:43.320 zealotry.

00:50:44.800 And the reality is we

00:50:46.200 still require these

00:50:47.400 elements.

00:50:48.600 We still require

00:50:49.480 industry.

00:50:50.620 We've just outsourced

00:50:51.540 our carbon emissions

00:50:52.600 overseas where we

00:50:54.800 can't regulate it.

00:50:56.740 It's absolutely

00:50:57.740 extraordinary.

00:50:58.880 And, you know,

00:50:59.900 this argument, the

00:51:01.780 argument is very

00:51:02.660 rarely made by

00:51:03.660 rational people.

00:51:04.440 I find it

00:51:05.040 extraordinary that

00:51:05.680 the Conservative

00:51:06.260 Party rushed to

00:51:07.900 net zero and

00:51:09.600 is willing to

00:51:11.140 sacrifice our

00:51:11.780 industry and

00:51:13.100 security.

00:51:13.820 And I think we're

00:51:14.600 paying the price of

00:51:16.240 that in high energy

00:51:17.240 prices, which is

00:51:18.360 making our whole

00:51:19.140 economy completely

00:51:20.340 unproductive and

00:51:21.960 uncompetitive.

00:51:23.240 So, again, it's

00:51:23.900 another act of

00:51:24.640 self-sabotage.

00:51:25.860 It is.

00:51:26.380 You know, when I

00:51:28.280 talk to people like

00:51:29.700 yourselves who've

00:51:30.320 served, the act of

00:51:32.180 warfare is the most

00:51:33.380 realistic thing there

00:51:34.940 is.

00:51:35.280 That's where all of

00:51:36.680 the nonsense goes

00:51:37.580 out the window,

00:51:38.480 ideology, you are

00:51:40.540 rooted in practical

00:51:41.920 reality because if

00:51:43.020 you're not, you're 0.95

00:51:44.020 going to lose, people

00:51:45.060 are going to die, 0.95

00:51:46.200 things are going to

00:51:46.720 get awful.

00:51:48.620 To me, what's

00:51:50.120 happening is our

00:51:50.880 elites are now just

00:51:51.780 completely detached

00:51:52.540 from reality.

00:51:55.120 I cannot get my

00:51:57.040 mindset in how

00:51:58.260 government operates.

00:51:59.640 And I do think we're

00:52:01.200 going to need

00:52:01.520 some things, not

00:52:02.380 sort of a revolution

00:52:03.720 the way government

00:52:04.360 operates, to rebuild

00:52:06.620 Britain.

00:52:07.900 Otherwise, we just

00:52:08.980 seem to be on this

00:52:09.640 precipitous decline in

00:52:11.480 the same way as Rome

00:52:12.440 and Greek

00:52:13.240 civilizations are.

00:52:15.040 That's what it

00:52:15.420 feels like.

00:52:15.860 It feels like the

00:52:16.580 end of days now.

00:52:18.060 Everybody that's

00:52:19.060 capable, intelligent,

00:52:21.640 that has aspiration,

00:52:23.480 it feels like they're

00:52:24.280 leaving Britain.

00:52:25.240 They are leaving.

00:52:26.020 It doesn't feel like

00:52:26.860 it.

00:52:27.040 They are leaving.

00:52:27.540 They are leaving.

00:52:29.520 But, and I've

00:52:31.020 looked at this, I

00:52:32.320 did look at going to

00:52:33.500 America, but ultimately

00:52:36.200 I fought for this

00:52:37.120 country.

00:52:37.840 I have buried

00:52:38.580 friends, young

00:52:39.860 soldiers.

00:52:41.340 I love this place.

00:52:43.560 My great-granddad

00:52:45.560 fought on the Somme

00:52:46.620 and at Passchendale.

00:52:47.740 My father, my

00:52:48.700 granddad served in

00:52:49.860 the Rimi, my

00:52:50.640 father served in the

00:52:52.300 parachute resident, I

00:52:53.060 served in the Royal

00:52:53.580 Marines.

00:52:54.720 You know, we're not

00:52:55.260 flight animals.

00:52:56.160 I'm going to stay

00:52:56.640 here and fight.

00:52:58.000 I will probably get

00:52:58.980 back involved in

00:52:59.680 politics in the

00:53:00.360 future.

00:53:01.100 I want to help

00:53:01.840 rebuild this country.

00:53:03.280 And that does mean we

00:53:04.180 need to fight against

00:53:05.940 what has happened

00:53:07.280 basically since 1997.

00:53:10.200 The self-sabotage that

00:53:11.980 has happened in this

00:53:12.680 country.

00:53:13.200 We need to rebuild all

00:53:14.500 our institutions, our

00:53:15.880 armed forces.

00:53:16.540 We need to deregulate.

00:53:18.120 And I'm not going to

00:53:19.860 run away.

00:53:20.520 And I would encourage

00:53:21.380 anybody that cares about

00:53:22.340 this country.

00:53:23.120 I understand you want an

00:53:24.140 easy life, you want to

00:53:24.920 make money.

00:53:25.580 Come back here and fight

00:53:26.560 for it because it's

00:53:27.140 worth it.

00:53:27.940 And the grass is not

00:53:28.780 greener in America or

00:53:30.220 in Dubai.

00:53:31.100 You know, very quickly

00:53:31.860 the regime could throw

00:53:32.780 you out of Dubai.

00:53:33.940 Come back here if you're

00:53:35.160 clever and bright and

00:53:36.520 sort this place out.

00:53:37.740 Well, I appreciate that

00:53:38.940 message.

00:53:39.340 It's one of the reasons

00:53:39.920 we're still here.

00:53:40.820 I personally, I've never

00:53:42.280 fought for this country,

00:53:43.340 but this country gave me a

00:53:44.740 lot of opportunities.

00:53:46.060 And I feel very grateful

00:53:47.120 and I feel a duty to stay

00:53:48.300 and try to do something

00:53:49.180 about it for a period of

00:53:51.160 time. 1.00

00:53:51.500 But if this shit 1.00

00:53:52.460 continues, I don't know 1.00

00:53:53.700 how you're going to

00:53:54.240 convince people to stay.

00:53:55.820 But on the positive side,

00:53:57.280 or rather on the

00:53:58.040 constructive side at

00:53:59.040 least, you say we need

00:54:01.320 to fight.

00:54:01.800 And I think there are

00:54:02.700 millions of people in

00:54:03.640 Britain who will happily

00:54:04.820 fight.

00:54:05.860 But I think what's

00:54:06.660 missing is a clear

00:54:07.860 understanding of what it

00:54:09.300 is that we need to do.

00:54:11.160 So with your more

00:54:12.280 practical hat on, what

00:54:14.640 do you think are the

00:54:15.380 changes that we actually

00:54:16.680 need to implement in this

00:54:17.660 country?

00:54:17.860 Lots of people are good

00:54:19.400 at diagnosing the

00:54:20.240 problem.

00:54:21.760 I've said a few

00:54:22.560 things.

00:54:22.920 I probably don't, I'm

00:54:23.840 not as eloquent as some

00:54:24.920 people are saying what's

00:54:25.820 wrong, but very few

00:54:27.120 people are good at

00:54:27.720 articulating a plan.

00:54:29.740 And that's what we need.

00:54:31.580 We need to get

00:54:32.720 intelligent, capable

00:54:34.020 people from industry,

00:54:35.800 policymakers who

00:54:36.580 understand what we

00:54:38.140 need to do to rebuild

00:54:40.680 our economy, to

00:54:42.460 turbocharge ideas and

00:54:44.320 things like AI, the

00:54:45.560 future, to turbocharge

00:54:47.320 our energy

00:54:48.780 infrastructure so we

00:54:49.760 get cheap energy,

00:54:50.620 whether that's mini

00:54:51.360 nuclear reactors,

00:54:52.780 whatever that looks

00:54:53.880 like, we need to get

00:54:54.640 those people together

00:54:55.680 and say what is it we

00:54:57.060 need to do and what's

00:54:58.860 standing in the way,

00:54:59.820 what regulatory nonsense

00:55:01.640 or bureaucrats in the

00:55:02.720 way, and build a set of

00:55:05.600 ideas in every field

00:55:07.340 from education.

00:55:08.220 How do I give us, how

00:55:09.100 do we give everybody

00:55:10.260 the opportunity to get a

00:55:11.340 world-class education so

00:55:12.540 we invest in children of

00:55:14.280 the future?

00:55:14.840 How do we restructure

00:55:16.020 defence so we have a

00:55:18.660 good number of

00:55:19.640 frigates, destroyers,

00:55:21.020 rebuild the Royal Navy

00:55:22.340 so it's a capable force

00:55:23.640 once again?

00:55:24.780 Every walk of

00:55:25.740 government, every walk

00:55:26.560 of life, we need to

00:55:28.060 get people together

00:55:28.900 writing concepts of

00:55:30.560 policy papers, putting

00:55:32.380 those together so we

00:55:33.460 are ready when we get

00:55:35.060 rid of this Labour

00:55:35.640 government to implement

00:55:37.060 that plan.

00:55:38.360 But it's not just

00:55:39.120 having that plan, it's

00:55:40.480 also working with

00:55:41.980 people that understand

00:55:43.020 the problems of

00:55:43.880 government to wash

00:55:46.460 away bureaucracy and

00:55:47.600 I think Dominic Cummings

00:55:48.740 really articulates it

00:55:49.920 very well, just how

00:55:51.240 difficult it is to

00:55:52.160 change to get

00:55:53.320 anything done in

00:55:53.960 government.

00:55:54.640 The vaccine task

00:55:55.500 forces, whether people

00:55:56.860 agree with vaccines or

00:55:58.300 not is not the issue

00:55:59.120 here, is the ability to

00:56:00.820 fast-track something and

00:56:01.920 make something happen.

00:56:03.560 The amount of red tape

00:56:04.680 in the way of stopping

00:56:05.560 the creation of those

00:56:07.400 vaccines, they were able

00:56:09.560 for a period of time to

00:56:10.780 do that, to make

00:56:12.700 something happen

00:56:13.280 quickly.

00:56:14.260 And I think we need

00:56:16.220 a mindset that Britain

00:56:19.500 is in, we need a

00:56:20.460 crisis mindset that we

00:56:22.280 can't just slowly

00:56:23.980 reform and allow the

00:56:25.100 system to carry on as

00:56:26.420 it is.

00:56:27.500 We need a massive,

00:56:29.580 great reformation on

00:56:30.800 the way we do

00:56:31.380 government, the way we

00:56:32.780 do politics, and the

00:56:34.740 way we implement it.

00:56:36.360 That has to happen.

00:56:38.400 It does have to

00:56:39.020 happen, but I think

00:56:39.940 ultimately it will

00:56:41.060 always start with the

00:56:42.100 economy, because when

00:56:43.920 we don't have money,

00:56:45.140 none of this is going

00:56:45.980 to be possible, right?

00:56:47.140 And that's why I think

00:56:48.540 not enough people

00:56:49.200 understand the negative

00:56:51.540 impact that net zero is

00:56:52.800 having on our economy

00:56:54.760 is overwhelming, because

00:56:56.520 energy is part of

00:56:57.540 everything that we

00:56:58.280 produce.

00:56:59.280 And so electricity, I

00:57:01.140 think energy prices in

00:57:02.080 this country are four

00:57:02.760 times what they are in

00:57:03.600 the U.S.

00:57:04.260 When you go to fill up

00:57:05.540 your car, you pay

00:57:07.340 twice as much as an

00:57:09.780 American does.

00:57:10.600 So all of that is

00:57:11.780 included in the cost of

00:57:12.960 everything that we make.

00:57:14.460 And that's why I keep

00:57:16.020 emphasizing the net zero

00:57:17.240 point.

00:57:17.440 I think none of this is

00:57:18.900 going to be possible

00:57:19.680 until we let go of this

00:57:21.040 obsession.

00:57:21.760 I really, I don't see how

00:57:23.160 it's going to work.

00:57:23.940 And I think the one

00:57:24.820 thing as well that people 0.93

00:57:25.700 don't talk enough about

00:57:27.080 is how utterly

00:57:28.640 demoralizing it is for

00:57:30.080 the average person when

00:57:31.960 you're always skint.

00:57:33.820 And you bought into a

00:57:35.120 system which promised

00:57:35.940 you, you'd get a job,

00:57:36.980 you'd work hard, you'd be

00:57:38.280 able to earn money, and

00:57:39.600 all of a sudden the

00:57:40.960 things that were

00:57:41.740 affordable a matter of

00:57:43.520 years ago are now

00:57:44.480 completely unaffordable.

00:57:45.960 Well, we're poorer now

00:57:46.880 per capita than we were

00:57:48.060 in 2007.

00:57:48.960 Yeah.

00:57:49.780 And that is why there's

00:57:51.100 such frustration with

00:57:51.980 immigration because people

00:57:53.000 see other people coming

00:57:54.840 over and getting housing

00:57:56.180 and getting benefits and

00:57:57.580 even having private

00:57:58.700 health.

00:57:59.860 It's fostering 0.98

00:58:00.880 resentment.

00:58:01.760 On top of that, being

00:58:03.780 told to hate our

00:58:04.660 history, hate who we are, 0.60

00:58:06.420 being told all the time

00:58:07.620 we're racist, this, that

00:58:08.840 and the other, that

00:58:09.760 sense of depression

00:58:11.660 that we have in

00:58:13.260 Britain, although I

00:58:13.920 feel it lifting as a

00:58:15.240 result, genuinely as a

00:58:16.280 result of Musk buying

00:58:17.620 Twitter and as a result

00:58:19.060 of Trump getting

00:58:20.200 elected.

00:58:20.880 And Malay.

00:58:21.740 And Malay.

00:58:22.680 There's a sense that

00:58:23.820 there's a different way

00:58:25.300 that is emerging around

00:58:26.500 the world.

00:58:26.980 That's what's exciting.

00:58:28.180 Yeah.

00:58:29.060 But with the energy

00:58:30.320 thing, I think, you

00:58:31.360 know, I love wildlife.

00:58:33.560 I've made some wildlife

00:58:34.760 documentaries.

00:58:35.400 I love nature.

00:58:37.280 And some people might

00:58:38.120 say, oh, you're an 0.60

00:58:38.860 environmentalist.

00:58:40.000 And I am.

00:58:40.700 I care about planet

00:58:41.400 Earth.

00:58:41.880 You know, we should

00:58:42.540 protect it.

00:58:44.040 But again, we have this

00:58:45.540 sort of colonial mindset

00:58:48.100 that we in Britain, if we

00:58:50.260 do net zero, it will

00:58:51.300 change the world.

00:58:52.840 No, it won't.

00:58:54.040 Because we are

00:58:54.660 responsible. 0.99

00:58:54.820 No one gives a shit. 0.97

00:58:55.960 We are responsible for 0.97

00:58:56.940 less than 1% of emissions,

00:58:59.880 global emissions.

00:59:00.940 I think people don't

00:59:01.580 understand how relevant

00:59:02.620 Britain is right now.

00:59:04.420 And that is the same

00:59:06.460 in the environment

00:59:07.180 sphere.

00:59:09.080 You know, there is no

00:59:10.220 point sabotaging

00:59:11.360 ourselves on the

00:59:12.720 altar of net zero

00:59:14.100 because it won't make

00:59:15.280 any difference whilst

00:59:16.160 India and China are 0.99

00:59:17.060 building coal-fired

00:59:17.780 stations every week,

00:59:18.800 every month.

00:59:19.280 Yeah.

00:59:19.860 Yes, they are

00:59:21.520 investing in renewables,

00:59:23.600 but those are the

00:59:24.600 places that need to

00:59:25.420 be solved.

00:59:27.100 Not making it more

00:59:28.660 expensive for people to

00:59:29.720 heat their homes in

00:59:30.800 Britain.

00:59:31.080 But I don't

00:59:32.000 understand how that

00:59:33.380 common sense message

00:59:35.080 hasn't broken through.

00:59:36.160 We haven't won the

00:59:36.540 argument.

00:59:36.960 We have to win the

00:59:37.540 argument.

00:59:37.820 By the way, it's not

00:59:38.340 1%.

00:59:38.740 If you include the

00:59:39.720 stuff we outsource,

00:59:40.600 it's more like 2%.

00:59:41.720 Still totally irrelevant.

00:59:43.100 Because it's

00:59:43.640 outsourced.

00:59:44.060 It's outsourced.

00:59:44.700 But we are still

00:59:45.260 responsible for it

00:59:46.180 because we're

00:59:46.600 important and backed.

00:59:47.880 But anyway, you're

00:59:49.140 completely right.

00:59:49.980 You're completely right.

00:59:50.840 And the reason is we

00:59:51.720 haven't won the

00:59:52.260 argument.

00:59:53.020 And not enough

00:59:53.680 people have been

00:59:54.240 willing to make the

00:59:54.900 argument because they're

00:59:55.520 all terrified of being

00:59:56.340 called a climate denier.

00:59:57.520 Yeah.

00:59:57.880 And climate denier is 0.81

00:59:59.040 just racist. 0.94

00:59:59.540 It's like racist.

01:00:00.520 It's something people

01:00:01.400 use to smear people who

01:00:03.560 are pointing out very

01:00:04.840 obvious things that are

01:00:06.080 really material to the

01:00:07.780 well-being of this

01:00:09.000 country and the people

01:00:09.880 who live in it.

01:00:10.380 It's an important point

01:00:11.760 about climate denier

01:00:12.360 because I am not.

01:00:13.840 Right.

01:00:14.340 Climate change is real.

01:00:16.240 Now, we can debate about

01:00:17.120 why that's happening.

01:00:18.020 But one of the reasons

01:00:19.800 Donald Trump is coming

01:00:22.620 into office and saying,

01:00:23.480 I want Greenland, is

01:00:24.920 because the northern

01:00:26.220 passageways are open

01:00:27.300 because Iceland or Arctic

01:00:29.960 ice is in decline because

01:00:31.380 the climate is changing

01:00:32.760 very rapidly.

01:00:33.780 So I think it's very

01:00:34.680 important to make the

01:00:35.400 point that the climate is

01:00:36.320 changing, but Britain can 0.52

01:00:39.020 do very little about it

01:00:40.200 by making ourselves

01:00:41.820 poorer.

01:00:43.580 The solution to climate

01:00:44.820 change can't be poverty

01:00:45.780 is what you're saying.

01:00:46.440 No, exactly that.

01:00:47.520 Yeah.

01:00:48.720 Watching Netflix without

01:00:50.060 using ExpressVPN is like

01:00:52.160 paying for a gym

01:00:52.920 membership but only being

01:00:54.440 able to use the treadmill.

01:00:56.000 Did you know that

01:00:56.780 Netflix has different

01:00:57.880 content libraries for

01:00:59.060 every country?

01:01:00.480 Netflix has thousands

01:01:01.580 of shows, but without a

01:01:02.800 VPN, you only get access

01:01:04.240 to a fraction of that

01:01:05.420 based on your location.

01:01:06.800 For example, I live in

01:01:08.420 the UK and last week I

01:01:09.960 wanted to watch Dumb

01:01:11.020 Money on Netflix, but

01:01:12.440 it's not on UK

01:01:13.280 Netflix, so I just

01:01:14.680 opened the app, selected

01:01:16.200 US, tapped one button

01:01:17.960 to connect, and then

01:01:19.320 when I refreshed the

01:01:20.360 page, it was there.

01:01:22.220 ExpressVPN is the VPN

01:01:24.180 to choose.

01:01:25.200 They have servers in

01:01:26.020 94 countries, it's

01:01:27.480 compatible with all your

01:01:28.560 devices, and it works

01:01:30.440 with other streaming

01:01:31.380 services like BBC

01:01:32.620 iPlayer, YouTube, and

01:01:34.120 more.

01:01:34.480 Right now, our listeners

01:01:35.520 can get an exclusive

01:01:36.900 deal, four extra

01:01:38.720 months free, when you

01:01:40.220 sign up for a 12-month

01:01:41.640 plan at expressvpn.com

01:01:44.760 slash trigger.

01:01:46.040 That's expressvpn.com

01:01:48.760 slash trigger for four

01:01:50.640 months absolutely free.

01:01:53.240 And it's also as well,

01:01:54.700 the people putting

01:01:55.380 forward these policies,

01:01:57.060 it's a luxury belief

01:01:59.500 because they're not the

01:02:00.540 ones who are being

01:02:01.080 affected by it.

01:02:02.200 If every month you're

01:02:03.860 just about scraping by

01:02:05.380 and then suddenly your

01:02:07.100 energy bills go up

01:02:09.060 fourfold, you've gone

01:02:10.720 from just about

01:02:11.740 scraping by to not

01:02:13.200 making it anymore, and

01:02:14.340 that's cumulative.

01:02:15.240 What I don't understand

01:02:16.060 is, if you would think

01:02:16.880 about this, what do we

01:02:18.040 need to power our

01:02:21.200 country and become a

01:02:22.760 leader in green

01:02:23.300 technology?

01:02:24.380 Well, we should be

01:02:25.080 investing in green

01:02:25.640 technology, but we

01:02:27.060 should also keep using

01:02:30.060 the energy resources we

01:02:32.720 have in the North Sea.

01:02:34.460 Cheap gas for now

01:02:35.700 until those technologies

01:02:37.620 are ready to take over.

01:02:39.200 We should be using, we 0.77

01:02:40.220 should have a strategy

01:02:40.940 that backs every horse.

01:02:43.120 Yes.

01:02:43.660 We should be investing in

01:02:44.580 nuclear.

01:02:45.300 But right now, Miliband

01:02:46.380 is saying, no, just the

01:02:48.180 green energy, regardless of

01:02:49.980 the cost.

01:02:50.640 Yeah.

01:02:51.500 And this is one thing I

01:02:52.740 think people on the right

01:02:53.600 actually don't appreciate

01:02:54.720 nearly enough, in my

01:02:56.380 opinion, my humble

01:02:57.280 opinion, that, you

01:02:58.620 know, we talk so much

01:03:00.740 about immigration, and

01:03:01.780 the problem of illegal

01:03:02.680 immigration absolutely 0.78

01:03:04.220 needs to be dealt with

01:03:05.420 immediately, should have

01:03:07.160 been dealt with 20 years

01:03:08.280 ago, frankly.

01:03:09.480 Completely unacceptable

01:03:10.520 what's happening.

01:03:11.300 The fact that we spend a

01:03:12.900 gazillion pounds every

01:03:14.020 year, it just shouldn't

01:03:15.060 be happening.

01:03:15.780 And mass immigration

01:03:17.260 legally isn't where the

01:03:19.760 people of this country

01:03:20.860 voted for.

01:03:21.760 So, again, those things

01:03:23.240 are totally legitimate

01:03:24.240 and need to be dealt

01:03:24.940 with.

01:03:25.180 But what I always say to

01:03:26.080 people is, okay, well,

01:03:26.860 let's imagine we've

01:03:28.060 achieved this great

01:03:29.320 British dream of

01:03:30.300 deporting the illegal 0.99

01:03:31.380 immigrants and cutting 1.00

01:03:32.580 immigration.

01:03:33.840 Is our country actually

01:03:34.960 better off when that's

01:03:36.060 happened?

01:03:38.020 You'll feel better, but

01:03:40.020 the country isn't going

01:03:41.120 to be better off.

01:03:41.640 We're still going to be

01:03:42.120 poor.

01:03:42.920 We're still going to be

01:03:43.820 de-industrialized.

01:03:45.360 And so, until we start

01:03:46.660 talking about economic

01:03:47.620 growth, all of this

01:03:49.060 other stuff is just a way

01:03:51.120 to win elections, but it's

01:03:52.240 not actually going to

01:03:52.780 change the country.

01:03:53.560 This is the danger of

01:03:54.200 populism.

01:03:54.600 Just because it might be 0.90

01:03:56.800 right to deport Islamists 1.00

01:03:58.340 and people here

01:03:58.820 illegally, that doesn't

01:03:59.860 solve Britain's 0.99

01:04:00.360 fundamental problems

01:04:01.140 whatsoever.

01:04:01.960 We should do it,

01:04:02.520 though, but it's not the

01:04:04.480 only thing.

01:04:04.740 It needs to be done, but

01:04:06.140 what about rebuilding the

01:04:07.380 country?

01:04:08.000 And that is my biggest

01:04:09.700 fear about populism.

01:04:12.240 It's not trying to build a

01:04:14.140 stronger Britain, a

01:04:15.060 stronger future.

01:04:15.900 It's not dealing with

01:04:16.960 how do we make Britain

01:04:18.080 great again?

01:04:19.500 Supporting people won't

01:04:20.380 make Britain great again.

01:04:21.480 We need to put the

01:04:23.720 building blocks again for

01:04:24.620 growth, and we can't

01:04:26.860 afford an armed forces

01:04:27.800 unless we grow.

01:04:29.200 And I don't feel these

01:04:30.280 tough questions are being

01:04:31.300 answered right now.

01:04:32.120 Definitely not.

01:04:32.800 And I think that's a

01:04:33.500 conversation that's

01:04:34.380 important for those of us

01:04:35.840 in the centre and the

01:04:36.680 centre-right to keep having

01:04:37.840 over the next three or

01:04:38.620 four years, because when I

01:04:40.500 look at Donald Trump, when

01:04:41.580 I look at Malay, when I 1.00

01:04:42.660 look at just these things,

01:04:43.980 what I see is people coming

01:04:46.440 in with an inspiring

01:04:47.460 message.

01:04:48.700 And deporting illegals is 0.85

01:04:50.480 necessary, but it's not

01:04:51.880 inspiring.

01:04:52.580 No one gets up in the

01:04:53.400 morning and thinks, oh,

01:04:54.440 thank God, my life is so

01:04:56.860 much better now.

01:04:58.040 I mean, there's a few

01:04:58.660 people who do.

01:04:59.140 There's a few people.

01:05:00.180 There's a few YouTube

01:05:01.680 channels, mate.

01:05:02.600 There's one or two YouTube

01:05:03.620 channels, you're right.

01:05:04.780 But I think what I'm saying

01:05:06.760 respectfully to those

01:05:07.720 YouTube channels, I think

01:05:08.540 what they're ignoring is we

01:05:10.280 need an inspirational vision.

01:05:12.480 And I think the fact that

01:05:14.460 you don't have to be poor and

01:05:16.200 your children don't have to

01:05:17.320 be poorer than you were

01:05:18.480 actually is the inspiring

01:05:20.900 message that we need right

01:05:22.060 now.

01:05:22.420 The fact that we can grow

01:05:23.840 our way out of this, but

01:05:24.740 that means being really

01:05:25.960 honest about why we are

01:05:27.340 where we are.

01:05:29.080 And that's why I'm

01:05:30.480 optimistic, because I think

01:05:31.580 things are going to get so

01:05:32.740 bad.

01:05:33.700 Things are going to get so

01:05:35.000 bad under this Labour

01:05:35.920 government now.

01:05:37.500 And it's not because they're

01:05:38.460 Labour.

01:05:39.000 The Tories were just as 0.98

01:05:40.040 useless for 14 years before 0.99

01:05:41.300 them. 0.68

01:05:41.780 Things are going to get so

01:05:42.700 bad now over the next five

01:05:43.940 years that I hope to God

01:05:46.000 a lot of people actually

01:05:47.120 open their eyes.

01:05:48.380 Yeah.

01:05:49.060 And just another thing,

01:05:51.920 another bugbear of mine,

01:05:53.280 I've seen it on the right,

01:05:54.700 I've seen the AFD talking

01:05:55.800 about this.

01:05:57.220 Oh, we're going to get rid

01:05:58.120 of all the windmills.

01:05:59.960 Just because Net Zero is

01:06:01.560 barking, that doesn't mean

01:06:02.900 we go and then tear down

01:06:05.000 windmills or stop the

01:06:06.640 electrification process of

01:06:08.220 vehicles.

01:06:08.960 There's some crazy, crazy

01:06:10.080 things do come out, do come

01:06:11.760 out of the right.

01:06:12.340 But, you know, I am

01:06:16.140 positive, but I don't think

01:06:17.660 we've hit rock bottom yet

01:06:18.640 in Britain. 0.99

01:06:19.620 We will, pretty fucking 0.99

01:06:21.200 soon. 0.96

01:06:21.560 And it could be an IMF

01:06:22.400 bailout.

01:06:22.900 The combination of what's

01:06:25.140 really going to change

01:06:26.000 things, especially in the

01:06:27.300 polls right now for

01:06:28.320 reform, Labour and the

01:06:30.100 Conservatives, are going to

01:06:31.020 be the next terrorist 0.99

01:06:32.480 attack and a serious

01:06:36.120 recession that could be as

01:06:37.900 bad as 2008 or a possible

01:06:39.360 IMF bailout.

01:06:40.200 That's going to be the

01:06:41.860 game change.

01:06:42.820 That's going to be the

01:06:43.500 thing that really flips

01:06:44.440 British politics.

01:06:45.680 I think it's going to be a

01:06:46.960 moment where, to use

01:06:48.840 football parlance, you lose

01:06:49.980 the dressing room.

01:06:51.280 And it's when the British 0.97

01:06:52.500 people actually realise

01:06:54.000 that the salaries that

01:06:57.340 they make just simply

01:06:58.380 can't cover the bare

01:06:59.640 essentials.

01:07:01.820 Infrastructure, it's

01:07:02.580 already crumbling, but it

01:07:03.560 starts crumbling at a

01:07:04.540 faster rate.

01:07:05.780 Our elites become more and

01:07:07.000 more detached and they buy

01:07:08.480 more and more into these

01:07:09.780 demented ideologies until

01:07:12.000 it becomes, like you say,

01:07:13.500 rock bottom, unsustainable.

01:07:16.220 But it needs to, it's got

01:07:17.260 to, unfortunately, from

01:07:19.620 what I've seen, it needs a

01:07:21.260 moment where everybody just

01:07:22.400 goes, hang on a second.

01:07:23.820 Yeah.

01:07:24.240 And that moment is never

01:07:25.720 pleasant.

01:07:26.980 You do realise Britain

01:07:28.320 hasn't had austerity yet.

01:07:30.120 No.

01:07:30.740 No, of course not.

01:07:31.340 This made-up term by

01:07:33.020 George Osborne, 10% cuts in

01:07:35.280 departments.

01:07:36.020 The national debt is so

01:07:37.300 extraordinary that there is

01:07:39.020 going to be a point where we

01:07:39.980 may be forced into real,

01:07:41.440 real austerity and it's not

01:07:43.200 going to be pleasant.

01:07:43.820 No.

01:07:44.300 That would be like Greek 1.00

01:07:45.640 levels of austerity, which I

01:07:47.080 just don't think, that's why

01:07:48.420 we need growth.

01:07:49.360 Because really, the levels of

01:07:51.320 debt that Western countries are

01:07:52.540 running at this point, the

01:07:53.620 only tolerable way to get out

01:07:55.920 of that situation is to grow.

01:07:58.060 Is to grow.

01:07:58.620 And that's why we have to

01:07:59.920 abandon these luxury beliefs,

01:08:01.940 as Francis said.

01:08:02.580 Do you see credible leaders

01:08:04.660 with a plan in the current

01:08:07.060 political landscape that are

01:08:09.460 going to lead us to the

01:08:10.640 sunlit uplands of growth?

01:08:12.680 We will see.

01:08:13.380 I think we've got some time.

01:08:14.920 There's time before the next

01:08:16.120 election for things to take

01:08:17.660 shape.

01:08:18.120 I know speaking, I speak to

01:08:19.880 people across the political

01:08:20.880 spectrum and politics.

01:08:22.520 Labour are terrified of

01:08:23.980 reform.

01:08:25.040 The Conservatives are terrified

01:08:26.920 of reform.

01:08:27.660 And even if that doesn't lead

01:08:32.000 to a reform victory, that

01:08:33.740 will force the two mainstream

01:08:35.300 parties to change their

01:08:36.480 policies, is the hope.

01:08:38.800 Is the hope.

01:08:40.520 And then if that doesn't

01:08:41.380 happen, then you're

01:08:43.440 absolutely right.

01:08:44.060 You're going to get a wave of

01:08:45.040 populism and you're both

01:08:46.100 right.

01:08:46.360 It's not going to be pleasant.

01:08:47.620 But that is what happens when

01:08:49.240 you ignore the people for a

01:08:50.240 very long time.

01:08:50.960 And I won't be crying tears

01:08:52.600 for the people that suffer

01:08:53.960 because of that.

01:08:54.880 I really won't.

01:08:55.920 You know, they're the ones

01:08:57.020 that did this.

01:08:59.380 So these are somewhat

01:09:03.340 dark times for our

01:09:04.300 country.

01:09:04.560 That's why I asked you if

01:09:05.340 we're ever going to win

01:09:05.960 another war.

01:09:06.480 Because what I really feel

01:09:07.960 is what you said, which is

01:09:09.320 we've lost the will, I feel.

01:09:13.760 But the question is, have we

01:09:17.700 lost the will or are we just

01:09:18.840 waiting to be inspired?

01:09:20.160 That's the question, isn't

01:09:21.080 it?

01:09:21.740 Well, I've flipped this

01:09:22.800 round as why do we need to

01:09:24.120 fight a war?

01:09:25.320 Yeah.

01:09:25.600 What is it?

01:09:26.100 Who's threatening us?

01:09:27.020 The answer is, we're not

01:09:28.920 relevant enough to be

01:09:29.720 threatened right now.

01:09:32.140 We're not important enough

01:09:33.400 to be threatened.

01:09:34.140 So stop this mindset for a

01:09:37.920 long period of time that we

01:09:39.000 need to follow America into 0.92

01:09:40.860 any conflict.

01:09:42.280 Okay, we've got responsibilities

01:09:43.660 to NATO, which is its

01:09:45.880 offensive pact.

01:09:46.680 But my readout on the Ukraine-Russia

01:09:51.200 situation is Russia wants Ukraine

01:09:54.840 because it sees it as part of its

01:09:56.620 old empire, part of the USSR, and it

01:10:01.620 does fear the expansion of liberal

01:10:03.380 democracy east, which has of course

01:10:05.180 happened.

01:10:05.800 And I don't think Russia would ever 0.99

01:10:08.000 invade Britain. 0.79

01:10:09.580 Russia has never invaded Britain.

01:10:11.860 We have invaded...

01:10:12.380 I think Britain's invaded Russia 0.90

01:10:13.680 twice.

01:10:14.360 Well, they fought there only during the

01:10:17.540 American Revolution and, sorry to

01:10:19.780 say, Russian Revolution and of course

01:10:21.700 in Crimea.

01:10:22.880 So, you know, we've got more form for

01:10:25.220 invading them.

01:10:26.080 But what are the reasons for us to

01:10:28.100 get involved in a war?

01:10:29.940 Maybe some of our dependencies like

01:10:33.120 the Falklands or places like that

01:10:35.620 could come under threat.

01:10:36.880 But Britain will be making a conscious

01:10:39.580 choice to get, I believe, to get

01:10:42.000 involved in a conflict.

01:10:43.840 And we need to step back from that.

01:10:46.460 Oh, totally.

01:10:47.260 Certainly, I don't think anybody wants

01:10:49.120 us to get into a war.

01:10:50.220 But I also think that weakness creates

01:10:53.300 opportunities for that to happen.

01:10:57.320 Do you see what I mean?

01:10:58.040 But it's the British mindset to get

01:10:59.220 involved.

01:10:59.860 You know, for example, we're sending

01:11:01.760 a carrier group to...

01:11:05.300 Well, a carrier group, a group of the

01:11:09.360 Royal Navy around one of our aircraft

01:11:12.020 carriers will be sailing out to China

01:11:15.380 for freedom of... to demonstrate freedom

01:11:17.960 of navigation around the South China

01:11:20.120 Sea and to try and show some sort of

01:11:22.880 moral support towards Taiwan.

01:11:24.620 But it just seems an extraordinary

01:11:26.420 whereby at a time where we have

01:11:28.180 destroyed our armed forces, our

01:11:30.100 economies, you know, rock bottom,

01:11:33.200 Rachel Reeves is going cap in hand to

01:11:34.880 China to beg for some sort of trade

01:11:36.840 deal and come back with nothing.

01:11:38.640 It seems extraordinary that we would

01:11:39.980 be trying to prod this enormous

01:11:42.100 Chinese nation and armed forces 0.97

01:11:46.660 with this pathetic carrier group which 0.97

01:11:50.660 is going there to demonstrate freedom 0.97

01:11:52.080 and navigations.

01:11:52.860 I think this sort of playing at foreign

01:11:55.540 policy, we just need to withdraw it

01:11:58.080 because we can't do it anymore.

01:11:59.840 Well, what you're saying is we need to

01:12:01.020 get our own house in order.

01:12:02.220 And I think every person in Britain

01:12:04.700 would recognize that.

01:12:05.740 It's just a fact of life.

01:12:07.500 And then once we have, we will be able

01:12:10.800 to do the things in the world that we

01:12:12.240 feel we need to do.

01:12:13.460 But the first thing is we've got to get

01:12:15.420 our own house in order.

01:12:16.360 And so, as Francis said, preaching to

01:12:18.180 other people about how they should live

01:12:19.340 their lives.

01:12:21.220 That's a good note to end on.

01:12:22.880 It's a good note to end on.

01:12:23.880 James, it's been great having you on.

01:12:25.200 I recommend everybody checks out your

01:12:26.760 documentary, Afghanistan, and follows

01:12:28.340 you more broadly.

01:12:29.560 Before we head on over to Substack and

01:12:31.320 ask you questions from our audience,

01:12:33.640 what's the one thing we're not talking

01:12:34.880 about that we should be?

01:12:36.400 Before James answers the final question,

01:12:38.800 at the end of the interview, make sure

01:12:41.500 to head over to our Substack.

01:12:42.900 The link's in the description where you'll

01:12:45.320 be able to see this.

01:12:47.760 I'm wondering how united the Taliban is.

01:12:50.440 Is there some kind of inner conflict

01:12:52.000 between them?

01:12:53.360 Afghanistan is often referred to as a

01:12:55.180 graveyard of empires.

01:12:57.320 Could it be that a lasting solution in

01:12:59.620 inverted commas for Afghanistan may never 0.63

01:13:02.140 be achievable?

01:13:04.260 Initially, I was going to say we haven't

01:13:06.080 had austerity.

01:13:07.120 I think probably the most controversial

01:13:11.580 topic, which is being engaged in

01:13:14.620 in America, is the subject of how we deal

01:13:17.920 with mass immigration.

01:13:19.400 I don't mean the current levels of

01:13:21.180 immigration.

01:13:21.740 I'm talking about the mass immigration 0.99

01:13:23.140 that's already happened, which is, you

01:13:25.880 know, we've had apparently over 12

01:13:27.240 million people come to the country since

01:13:28.540 1997.

01:13:29.580 It's too large for them to all to

01:13:31.120 integrate.

01:13:32.260 And we have separate communities.

01:13:33.860 What do we do about that?

01:13:35.540 They're talking about deportations in

01:13:37.580 America.

01:13:38.600 They're talking about, they call it

01:13:40.020 remigration in Germany.

01:13:43.480 I think there's going to have to be a

01:13:45.260 conversation of, if people are in this

01:13:47.940 country who mean to do us harm, won't

01:13:50.180 live by our laws, are here illegally, or

01:13:52.720 have absolutely no interest in integrating

01:13:55.120 into our way of life, into our culture,

01:13:57.660 that's going to have to be dealt with.

01:13:58.940 That's going to have to be some sort of

01:14:00.240 resettlement program.

01:14:01.120 I think that's the thing that, well, certainly

01:14:03.440 the mainstream parties, the Conservative

01:14:05.400 Party, the Labour Party won't deal with.

01:14:07.300 And it's really controversial to talk

01:14:08.640 about, but it's just a fact that we had

01:14:11.280 this Boris wave, millions of people coming,

01:14:14.540 a million net each year for the last three

01:14:17.020 or four years.

01:14:19.720 They can't all stay.

01:14:21.640 And that's going to have to be dealt with.

01:14:23.900 It's a complicated subject because you

01:14:25.860 included a few very different things in

01:14:27.600 that.

01:14:27.780 So, deporting illegal immigrants, I don't 0.65

01:14:30.320 know anyone who would disagree with that.

01:14:32.140 But it sounds like you're talking about

01:14:33.900 something that's more broad.

01:14:35.420 Am I right?

01:14:36.480 Not necessarily, because there were

01:14:40.400 different bands of this.

01:14:41.580 So, how many illegal immigrants do we

01:14:43.880 have?

01:14:44.120 Do we know?

01:14:44.720 I mean, there's estimates of over a

01:14:45.920 million.

01:14:48.680 That's a large number of people if we've

01:14:50.760 got a population of 68 million.

01:14:53.760 Beyond that, if this concept,

01:14:57.780 indefinite leave to remain means you can

01:15:02.660 come here on a visa and if you're here

01:15:04.820 for five years, if you manage to stay

01:15:07.580 here for five years, you can apply for

01:15:08.880 indefinite leave to remain, which means

01:15:11.300 even if you don't offer anything to

01:15:12.900 society, you're not...

01:15:14.000 No, you have to be working or doing

01:15:16.200 other things, right?

01:15:17.380 Yeah, but you could be getting on a

01:15:19.260 relatively low-paid job and then for the

01:15:21.240 rest of your life, you and your family can

01:15:23.060 bring more family over.

01:15:23.980 You then can benefit from welfare.

01:15:27.020 Indefinite leave doesn't allow you to

01:15:28.320 bring family over.

01:15:31.260 You can't bring your grandmother because

01:15:34.220 you're on indefinite leave.

01:15:35.620 I know this because I had indefinite leave.

01:15:38.020 But you could still remain here and claim

01:15:40.560 benefits for the rest of your life.

01:15:41.560 I don't know.

01:15:43.860 I never claimed benefits.

01:15:44.860 I don't know.

01:15:45.340 I imagine so, yeah.

01:15:46.460 But that's the point is that we've become

01:15:49.280 a host country where people can come here.

01:15:51.460 I actually don't think if you are not a

01:15:53.620 British citizen, I don't think you should 1.00

01:15:54.780 be able to claim benefits at all.

01:15:56.080 No, but those are the things I'm talking

01:15:58.300 about.

01:15:58.600 Yeah, that's what we need.

01:15:59.300 I don't advocate.

01:16:00.780 I don't like the AFD remigration thing.

01:16:03.540 There is something sinister about that.

01:16:05.080 But the way you control population or you

01:16:07.900 get people to leave is you don't offer

01:16:09.700 freebies.

01:16:10.460 Yes.

01:16:10.780 People here to work.

01:16:11.500 But this is why I'm digging into this with

01:16:13.060 you.

01:16:13.200 It's not because I disagree.

01:16:14.180 I just don't know exactly what you mean.

01:16:15.740 And the reason I mention this is our

01:16:18.800 friend Winston Marshall, he had a guy

01:16:20.500 on from the Heritage Foundation on his

01:16:23.860 show.

01:16:24.040 I think he was from the Heritage

01:16:25.000 Foundation.

01:16:25.620 I hope I'm not misremembering.

01:16:27.200 And they were talking about Donald

01:16:29.160 Trump's promise to deport illegal

01:16:31.480 immigrants.

01:16:32.100 And even this guy who's very close to

01:16:34.920 the policymaking was basically saying,

01:16:37.320 look, we can get rid of the illegal

01:16:39.580 immigrants who've committed a crime and 1.00

01:16:42.480 maybe we can get a few more.

01:16:44.400 But I don't think even Donald Trump is

01:16:46.780 going to have, you know, immigration 0.90

01:16:48.580 officers bashing down an American

01:16:51.240 citizen's door because granny came 0.99

01:16:53.620 illegally.

01:16:54.200 Do you know what I mean?

01:16:54.840 And dragging her out and sending her 0.98

01:16:57.420 back.

01:16:57.780 So I guess the question is, what is it

01:17:01.560 that you mean specifically?

01:17:03.480 Well, I think, well, it's definitely

01:17:04.860 welfare culture, but it's not just

01:17:06.640 immigrants.

01:17:07.140 It's British welfare culture. 0.89

01:17:09.240 Yes.

01:17:09.640 But we can't get rid of British people 1.00

01:17:11.000 because they're on welfare.

01:17:11.920 So at least let's not get immigrants 1.00

01:17:13.880 welfare.

01:17:14.100 I think if we cut it for British people, 1.00

01:17:15.080 but we've also, as you said, we

01:17:17.160 shouldn't be paying.

01:17:18.180 We're not an international charity.

01:17:19.640 Britain has no money.

01:17:20.500 And if you do that, if you take away,

01:17:23.980 if you say for foreign people, you're

01:17:25.040 not having free housing and you're not

01:17:26.740 having benefits, you will see a lot of

01:17:29.360 people move.

01:17:30.640 Yes.

01:17:31.060 And I just, no one's ever explained to

01:17:33.080 me why foreign citizens should receive 1.00

01:17:36.080 welfare in our country.

01:17:37.540 Even if they pay into the system.

01:17:38.680 I was a foreign citizen at one point.

01:17:41.120 I never expected to be taken care of.

01:17:44.280 Now, at some point, if you've proved that

01:17:46.660 you fit within this country and you become

01:17:48.620 a British citizen, then you are endowed

01:17:50.320 with the rights and responsibilities.

01:17:51.460 And I think it's important to hold my

01:17:52.800 hand up as a Brexit here and say one of

01:17:54.720 the big things the Brexit side did not

01:17:56.140 really think about is that freedom of

01:17:57.940 movement within the EU meant that young

01:17:59.840 people will come here and work and then

01:18:01.520 go home.

01:18:02.280 Yeah.

01:18:02.920 And that we haven't really come up with a

01:18:05.120 better solution for that.

01:18:06.980 People are coming from all sorts of

01:18:09.620 countries around the world with different

01:18:10.620 values.

01:18:11.240 They're coming here and they're not going

01:18:12.980 home because once they get indefinite

01:18:15.640 leave to remain, they do claim benefits

01:18:17.520 and then we're stuck with them.

01:18:18.620 And then they don't integrate.

01:18:20.080 So this is an issue that we need to

01:18:22.020 address and I am not opposed to some

01:18:25.240 form of, and say freedom of movement,

01:18:27.620 but a visa system with EU countries,

01:18:29.620 with like-minded people, young people

01:18:31.000 that were skill sets.

01:18:32.700 You know, that's complete taboo if you

01:18:35.020 discuss that with some Brexiteers.

01:18:37.380 But we need to be way more open about

01:18:39.480 and have these open conversations.

01:18:41.420 We also need a political class that is

01:18:43.140 actually willing and unafraid to tackle

01:18:45.260 these subjects.

01:18:46.120 And the reality is with the vast majority

01:18:49.320 of them, they simply don't have the

01:18:51.160 backbone to do that.

01:18:52.420 The amount of times they will be, you know,

01:18:54.440 there'll be one thing in private and

01:18:55.840 another thing in public is quite frankly

01:18:57.740 sickening.

01:18:58.340 It's scary.

01:18:59.100 But that's why you asked, is there an issue

01:19:01.020 that hasn't been discussed?

01:19:01.960 I think it's, this is the discussion of

01:19:05.880 what do we do with the wave that's come?

01:19:08.120 You know, some are going to stay, some

01:19:09.540 can't stay and how do we create a system

01:19:13.020 that works in the future?

01:19:15.000 No one to me has presented a good solution.

01:19:18.320 Not yet, but I'm sure, I'm sure we will

01:19:20.360 feel our way towards one over the next

01:19:21.760 few years.

01:19:22.560 James, thanks for coming.

01:19:23.620 Head on over to Substack where we ask

01:19:25.340 James your questions.

01:19:27.860 As a conservationist, could you offer a

01:19:30.100 perspective on the importance of ecology

01:19:31.880 or biodiversity to our planet aside from

01:19:34.760 the issue of carbon and climate change,

01:19:36.480 et cetera.

TRIGGERnometry - January 22, 2025

Ex-Marine： We Lost in Afghanistan and We're Losing at Home Too

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript