TRIGGERnometry - Explosive Debate： Biden Vs. Trump with Destiny and Dr Sebastian Gorka

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00:00:30.960 Every part of Donald Trump's foreign policy, it was a disaster.

00:00:35.440 He's out of his depth.

00:00:36.980 Out of my depth? Okay.

00:00:38.640 The analysis is childlike to defend Trump, right?

00:00:41.660 Well, there were no wars, right?

00:00:43.680 Wars don't just come out of nowhere.

00:00:45.380 There's a buildup for how these things happen.

00:00:47.940 So what he just did is he said the conditions for the largest slaughter of Jews since 1945 were created by President Trump.

00:00:56.280 A lot of the stuff that he did during his presidency was kind of a buildup to the frustrations that would obviously come out on October 7th and that horrible terrorist attack.

00:01:05.340 It's because nobody fears the senile old man in the White House who talks to dead people and thinks his wife is his sister.

00:01:15.000 That's why the world is on fire.

00:01:16.860 The question I want to ask you is a question I can't ask you on YouTube, which is about January the 6th and everything that happened around that.

00:01:29.460 Do you believe the 2020 election was stolen?

00:01:32.780 So to say that he went along with the peaceful transfer of power is just a lie.

00:01:37.320 Well, he did because he left the White House.

00:01:39.500 Yes, after he failed to steal the election.

00:01:42.580 Gentlemen, welcome to the debate.

00:01:44.420 Seb, Stephen, thank you so much for coming on.

00:01:46.440 Obviously, we want to focus exclusively on the election that's upcoming.

00:01:50.780 And one of the things we agreed before is that both of you get a chance to set out a positive case for your candidate, something that we never hear anymore because everyone just criticizes the other person.

00:01:59.780 So given that Biden is incumbent, Stephen, do you want to start us off?

00:02:04.260 Yeah.

00:02:05.100 Why is he good?

00:02:05.880 I think that Biden is a good president because I think that he's shown that he's willing to defend and strengthen our institutions.

00:02:11.680 I think that the United States is only as strong as the institutions that we have.

00:02:16.580 You can have parchment guarantees from constitutions that say you're afforded X, Y, Z rights or, you know, you're guaranteed in the United States to be able to do some particular things.

00:02:25.900 But at the end of the day, if we don't have a government telling you that the food is safe or this medicine is safe or your car is not going to explode at the end of the day, I think that none of those things actually matter, the parchment guarantees.

00:02:37.140 So I think that Biden has done a really good job at kind of reaffirming our institutions, whereas I feel like Trump is a bit more negative towards them.

00:02:44.420 The second thing is I think Biden has done a really good job at being able to actually bring different people in Congress together to pass legislation.

00:02:51.680 I think that bipartisanship is really important right now considering how divided we are.

00:02:56.200 You've got things that Trump said about infrastructure for four years that never got done.

00:03:00.900 The closest we got to infrastructure building in the United States under Trump are tariffs, which are basically just taxes on our own citizens, whereas Biden was able to pass the IRA and the CHIPS Act, which both have like fostered a ton of new manufacturing that's been happening in the United States, which I think is really cool because we're finally building stuff again.

00:03:20.140 And then I think that the foreign policy under Biden, I think that our aims right now are a lot more noble than they were under Trump.

00:03:26.660 I think that regardless of your feelings, our participation with supporting Ukraine against Russia or supporting Israel against the situation in the Middle East is a lot more defensible than endless drone wars that we're trying to hide in Yemen, you know, fighting in Syria, whatever other, you know, the photo opportunities with North Korea, the back and forth with Iran, whatever kind of like mixed bag of undermining the United States Trump was involved in when it came to US foreign policy under him.

00:03:54.980 So those are my three big ones, I think defensive institutions, ability to bipartisanly pass legislation, and then more noble foreign policy aims.

00:04:03.620 Perfect. I will come back to you to probe at some of those things.

00:04:06.780 Seb, what's your case for Trump?

00:04:08.840 He loves America. He doesn't hate America. It's really that simple.

00:04:12.660 And he understands the institutions are either broken or corrupt.

00:04:17.940 And he's not a member of the political elite. He wasn't in politics for 47 years like the current incumbent in the White House.

00:04:24.100 He is not part of the quote-unquote political elite that clearly detests our nation and Judeo-Christian civilization.

00:04:34.280 There's a reason that working-class Americans from across the nation voted for him in 2016. 0.99

00:04:39.860 There's a reason that recently in Harlem, we saw what?

00:04:43.760 We saw a black 10-year-old child chant out, we love you, Trump, which was then picked up by all the adults around that young boy, because they see in that man authenticity.

00:04:56.580 He's not a machine career politician.

00:04:58.900 He's not somebody with 21 shell companies funneling money from communist China, Russia, the Ukraine, into his son's dodgy dealings, and then into the Biden family.

00:05:09.680 He has authenticity and he loves America.

00:05:11.980 The first time I met him, I've told this story on your show previously, I grew up in the UK.

00:05:18.140 It was a very different culture for me to meet this reality TV star in his, you know, golden tower in New York.

00:05:24.720 But within 30 seconds of sitting down with this man, I realized two things.

00:05:28.620 He loves America and he hates political correctness.

00:05:30.780 That is the antithesis of the political class, whether it's rhino fake Republicans or the institutionalized Democrats. 0.95

00:05:37.840 And that's why he's trouncing Biden in every significant poll in America.

00:05:43.180 People see a man who understands America has lost its way.

00:05:47.080 The elite on both sides of the aisle have betrayed American, especially American workers, and we need to fix it.

00:05:52.800 That's why.

00:05:54.000 And do you, is it really, is it really true that like the Biden and the people around him hate America?

00:06:00.160 I mean, that's, isn't that an extraordinary claim to make, Sam?

00:06:02.840 It is, it's kind of perverse, but if you look at everything they've done for the last three and a half years, answer the question thusly.

00:06:10.120 What else would you do for three and a half years if your ostensible goal was actually to destroy America?

00:06:16.860 What would you do differently?

00:06:18.280 Nothing.

00:06:19.020 You'd open the borders.

00:06:19.940 You'd give billions of dollars to the greatest state-sponsored terrorism in the world, Iran, that every Friday chants a death to America. 0.90

00:06:27.580 You'd undermine our relationship with our closest ally in the Middle East, Israel. 0.91

00:06:31.720 Stop sending them the weapons they need to save themselves from the bloodthirsty jihadists that killed more Jews than we've ever seen since the end of the show, the end of the Holocaust.

00:06:42.180 You'd make it harder for Americans to live their lives.

00:06:46.320 When, on the first day of the Biden administration, you ban the Exxar Keystone Pipeline extension.

00:06:51.520 You say no more fracking, no more energy exploration on federal lands.

00:06:55.440 And what do we have?

00:06:56.260 We go from $1.80 a gallon of petrol to now we have, in California, $6.

00:07:02.640 When you're a man who lives on how much it costs to put a full tank of gas in your car, if you're a worker, if you're a plumber, if you're a carpenter, you've crushed tens of millions of people.

00:07:17.840 That is only possible if you hate the nation in which you live.

00:07:22.700 Think of this thing.

00:07:24.120 It's set up by one person.

00:07:26.060 Don't listen to me.

00:07:26.900 Don't listen to Sebastian.

00:07:28.380 Listen to Biden's former boss.

00:07:29.900 Five days before he became president, he said, we are going to fundamentally change this nation.

00:07:36.340 I know you're a married man, Constantine.

00:07:39.240 Don't tell your wife you want to fundamentally change her because she won't believe you love her.

00:07:43.840 You'll be on the couch or in the doghouse, okay?

00:07:46.440 You don't love that which you wish to fundamentally change.

00:07:50.060 And that's what the left has become.

00:07:51.960 There you go.

00:07:52.420 I'm getting marital advice as well.

00:07:54.840 Stephen, there's quite a lot there.

00:07:56.040 I'm going to come back to some of the points you made in your opening and let Seb probe with them as well.

00:08:00.540 But there was a lot there.

00:08:01.640 Do you want to come back on that?

00:08:03.640 Yeah.

00:08:04.020 I mean, I disagree with almost every part.

00:08:05.600 I think that I don't think Trump loves America.

00:08:07.640 I think it's pretty obvious that Trump loves himself.

00:08:09.280 I think even Trump fans will admit that Trump is more in love with himself than any other individual entity that exists on this planet.

00:08:14.520 I always think it's really funny.

00:08:16.820 I think one of the most interesting things that happened with conservatives is this idea that they found a common man who's not a part of the elite to champion their causes.

00:08:24.400 And it happens to be a billionaire real estate mogul from New York City that was essentially born with a silver spoon.

00:08:30.160 I think that's incredibly interesting.

00:08:33.000 When you talk about, like, I mean, we could go into family stuff.

00:08:37.260 I think it's interesting that people are so critical about Hunter Biden when Kushner is signing multibillion-dollar deals with Saudi Arabia when Kushner was working in an official deal.

00:08:44.200 Hold on, but that's more aboutism, right?

00:08:46.600 That's not like Hunter Biden could be a bad guy and Jared Kushner could be doing whatever you say he's doing.

00:08:51.920 Does it not?

00:08:52.780 Sure.

00:08:53.060 I'm not.

00:08:53.700 It's not a one aboutism because it's not a defense of Hunter.

00:08:56.580 I think it's more remarking that it's interesting what conservatives that are fans of Trump are selectively skeptical of.

00:09:02.060 That if Biden had created a position in the White House for his son Hunter to work under and then he had sent his son to go and negotiate on behalf of the United States and then afterwards his son was signing multibillion-dollar deals for companies that he worked with, this is like Burisma but 100 million times worse because it's in the official capacity as a government worker while being related to a president who didn't divestate his business.

00:09:20.840 I guess all I'm saying – sorry to interject.

00:09:23.100 I really want you to get the time.

00:09:25.760 That argument could be played the other way.

00:09:27.620 If Donald Trump had had a son like Hunter Biden who was doing what Hunter Biden did, everyone on the left would be outraged too, right?

00:09:35.480 I don't really hear many people on the left talking about Kushner that much considering how crazy those deals are.

00:09:40.280 I mean people have talked about it less.

00:09:42.120 It's true.

00:09:42.580 Sure.

00:09:42.960 Whereas for Hunter Biden, I mean Marjorie Taylor Greene has pictures of him in Congress.

00:09:46.820 I don't know if you saw that.

00:09:48.720 In terms of like what would you do if you wanted to make the country worse?

00:09:51.300 I mean I can think of several things.

00:09:52.360 I would encourage my supporters to lead an insurrection on the Capitol.

00:09:55.700 I would try to say that the election results weren't real.

00:09:58.420 I would plan that the election was fake before even coming into office, which he did before his first term.

00:10:03.840 I'd probably start to gain notoriety or popularity in the political world by suggesting that the current president was born in Kenya, not the United States.

00:10:10.620 A lot of people forget, but that's how Trump initially picked up his popularity.

00:10:14.320 It was with the birth certificate stuff with Barack Obama.

00:10:18.460 I think that when you talk about like wanting to fundamentally change this country, I don't think Biden wants to do that.

00:10:23.000 I think Biden genuinely loves the United States.

00:10:24.760 I look at somebody like Donald Trump who undermines basically every single part of this country, whether it's the legal and judicial system, whether it's trust in the voting process, whether it's NATO, whether it's U.S. impressions or the U.S. reputation abroad.

00:10:40.260 Yeah, I think that Trump fundamentally has no respect for any part of this country.

00:10:44.200 That's why he suggested suspending the Constitution so that he could look for voter fraud.

00:10:47.600 It's why before getting elected, he said that people that burn the flag are one of our most important First Amendment protected rights should have their citizenship stripped from them, which is insane.

00:10:55.800 And I would also probably try to undermine the current sitting president and the current sitting Congress by telling them that they're not allowed to get things done on the border because if we keep that as a real problem, it'll help me in the next election cycle.

00:11:06.380 Which is why we weren't able to pass any bipartisan border legislation to actually fix the asylum problem that we have right now that the current government's hands are tied on.

00:11:14.780 Seb? 0.78

00:11:16.100 I just, most of that is just absolutely risible.

00:11:19.320 He loves himself more than anything, any other human being on the planet.

00:11:23.440 Yeah, that's why he's facing 730 years in prison right now, because he wants to be president again.

00:11:32.080 He could have just gone off back to his private life, running his businesses.

00:11:37.460 But no, he actually said a few days ago, I'm prepared to go to jail and make that sacrifice any day because the Constitution is more important than my freedom.

00:11:47.180 That sounds like a very selfish individual.

00:11:49.300 Absolutely.

00:11:49.700 Do you not think, though, I think it's a fair critique to say that Donald Trump is narcissistic and so he would want to go back because he feels that he was badly treated.

00:12:00.920 The reason he didn't get re-elected was the election was stolen and he wants to show the world that he's, it's a personal ambition project rather than.

00:12:08.640 At the cost of going to prison.

00:12:10.820 Well, some people want to sacrifice themselves so everyone can see how they've been badly treated because they're so obsessed with, you know, looking right.

00:12:19.200 I'm glad we're so good at psychoanalyzing people from the outside.

00:12:22.360 Just saying, that's what a lot of people would think.

00:12:24.160 But let's look at the facts.

00:12:25.860 He wouldn't be where he is today if he wasn't running again.

00:12:29.340 That's just, we know that.

00:12:30.960 This is an attempt to steal an election before any vote is cast.

00:12:34.080 Whether it's the Fannie Willis corrupt prosecutor in Georgia, whether it's the person, Letitia James or Alvin Bragg, funded by George Soros during their campaigns, because sadly we elect these people in America, and who campaigned, campaigned on putting President Trump in prison.

00:12:51.620 How perverse is that?

00:12:52.800 And with regards to, he did it all for himself, and he did nothing for America or destroyed America.

00:12:59.980 Do you have any idea how much energy costs went up under the Trump administration, just for average families?

00:13:06.960 The president doesn't influence energy costs that much.

00:13:09.360 He does when he shuts down fracking and all licenses for oil exploration on federal lands.

00:13:15.880 Don't, don't, don't divert.

00:13:17.740 U.S. oil production is at an all-time high, so that's a non-point.

00:13:20.220 Absolutely not true.

00:13:20.860 It is.

00:13:21.220 Not true.

00:13:21.700 It is.

00:13:21.960 We're energy independent right now.

00:13:22.700 Okay, you're making stuff up.

00:13:24.140 Okay, people can look it up.

00:13:25.420 How much did energy go up, do you know, under Trump?

00:13:28.540 Are we counting the last year under COVID when the entire world was slowing down?

00:13:31.560 Over four years, how much did energy go up?

00:13:33.520 Do you know?

00:13:34.180 I'm not sure.

00:13:35.240 4%.

00:13:35.640 Do you know how much has gone up in the last three and a half years under Biden?

00:13:38.140 I'm not sure.

00:13:39.280 28%.

00:13:39.640 Who's destroying America?

00:13:42.480 So, but that's also a global trend.

00:13:44.080 Inflation isn't just a thing that it affects.

00:13:44.580 But also, it's a function of what we created.

00:13:46.780 When we were in the Trump administration, for the first time in our history, we were net

00:13:51.960 exporters of energy.

00:13:53.940 Think about what that does for the lifeblood.

00:13:56.560 An economy requires energy.

00:13:58.860 I know it's a scary, evil thing for the left, but oil and gas is how you run an economy.

00:14:04.800 It's how you get food to people.

00:14:06.420 So, when we became the first time ever a net exporter, or talk about the other aspects

00:14:11.360 of the economy.

00:14:12.400 We had the lowest unemployment for minorities in the United States since record keeping

00:14:17.380 began and the lowest unemployment for women for 70 years.

00:14:21.660 Look at what we have today.

00:14:23.340 I mean, it's absolute.

00:14:24.420 The fact that most families in this nation cannot handle a $500 emergency.

00:14:30.760 They don't have $500 worth of cash.

00:14:33.960 That's why Harlem is shouting, we love you, Trump.

00:14:37.280 I don't know if you saw President Trump after he had to leave the court last week.

00:14:40.760 He delivered pizzas to the firefighters in Manhattan.

00:14:43.940 It's really interesting to watch that video, not just of how he was received by those people

00:14:49.200 who run into fires to save Americans.

00:14:53.120 One of the firefighters actually audibly says in the background, save us, Mr. Trump.

00:14:58.360 That doesn't happen if the man's selfish and if the economy's absolutely superb.

00:15:04.580 It happens when you let in 8 million illegals in three and a half years to crush the working 1.00

00:15:11.300 man and woman in America.

00:15:13.160 Stephen, even as a fair observer, you would have to say, and feel free to come back on the

00:15:17.120 points I've made as well, but the immigration issue, the illegal immigration issue seems to

00:15:22.640 be much, much worse under President Biden.

00:15:25.700 Would you agree with that?

00:15:26.420 Um, yes, we're facing unique issues right now.

00:15:30.120 Yeah.

00:15:30.960 So why, why would you want to reelect a man who has allowed this many illegal immigrants 1.00

00:15:37.360 in despite the fact that I think it's fair to say the vast majority of Americans agree

00:15:41.060 that this shouldn't be happening?

00:15:42.300 I think that there is, when it comes to border stuff or immigration stuff, I think that most

00:15:46.400 of the disagreement, I think that we, I think for America, I think we generally agree on

00:15:50.280 most things for what the immigration policy should look like.

00:15:52.680 The problem is we have a very unique problem right now at the border relating to asylum

00:15:56.420 seeking and the federal government's hands are tied in terms of how you can deal with

00:16:00.560 those people.

00:16:01.520 So with the way that the law works right now, if you're an illegal immigrant and you come

00:16:05.040 up to the border, you see that like the, um, the encounters have gone up dramatically.

00:16:09.220 Um, well, so was the actual catch rate of people coming in.

00:16:12.260 Like not that many people are sneaking past the border guards.

00:16:15.260 The reason why is because you don't have to actually sneak into the country anymore.

00:16:18.740 You just have to show up between a port of entry or maybe even at a port of entry now

00:16:21.600 and go, Hey, I'm here to seek asylum.

00:16:23.120 And once you've done that, it's like a, it's like a get out of jail free card.

00:16:27.160 And you're basically, they have to take you in.

00:16:29.320 They have to process you because of how the federal laws on the books are right now.

00:16:33.020 And then because we don't have enough judges to actually go through all the cases, you're

00:16:37.340 given basically a slip.

00:16:38.460 You're saying, Hey, please show up for your trial.

00:16:40.160 And then you basically release them into the country. 0.57

00:16:42.040 Uh, some people would try to say that like Biden does catch and release or we have like

00:16:45.620 a catch and release law, but we don't really, it's like a combination of pretty complicated

00:16:49.520 things on the books for how we deal with asylum seekers.

00:16:51.740 Now, Biden, Biden and the Democrats in Congress wanted to deal with this, but Trump was literally

00:16:57.820 telling Republicans in Congress, do not touch the border issue.

00:17:01.000 That's why the bipartisan bill that Republicans had largely approved of a few years earlier

00:17:04.300 got completely shut down because Republicans don't want to close this issue.

00:17:07.780 Um, again, in classic Trump fashion, which is putting Trump ahead of the country, we

00:17:12.080 didn't do anything about the border because Trump was telling Republicans not to fix a

00:17:15.720 particular issue because he wants to win reelection.

00:17:17.460 That's an issue that Biden and the Democrats tried to solve, but we couldn't do it.

00:17:21.280 Look, I want to hear Seb's answer to that and other things you're about to say, but

00:17:24.680 just, I can tell you someone, look, I was born in the former Soviet Union.

00:17:28.420 I don't live in America.

00:17:29.360 I can promise you this unique set of circumstances that you're talking about, like every other

00:17:35.220 country in the world, pretty much except Western Europe is able to have a border, right?

00:17:39.940 You can't just turn up to the border of Russia or China and like walk in and then be like,

00:17:45.080 oh, can I please?

00:17:46.180 That's not how it works.

00:17:47.540 It's not, look, the idea that a country has a border has not been controversial for very

00:17:51.860 long.

00:17:52.100 This is a very new thing and the fact that the number of people has skyrocketed since

00:17:58.400 President Biden was elected, you can't put that on the Republicans.

00:18:02.360 Well, I'm not putting anything on the Republicans.

00:18:04.200 What I'm saying is we have, what I'm putting on them is the refusal to fix the actual issue,

00:18:08.040 which is passing legislation to do it.

00:18:09.900 And the last huge bipartisan bill that died in the House was supposed to increase the

00:18:14.700 amount of judges we have to work through asylum seekers. 0.73

00:18:16.620 It was supposed to change the standards that we would use to evaluate people claiming asylum.

00:18:20.700 And it would have been, and it would have increased funding basically for every part of the border

00:18:24.640 security.

00:18:24.760 Wouldn't it be easy to just erect a physical barrier that prevents people from going into

00:18:28.620 this country except at a port of entry?

00:18:30.260 No, it wouldn't do anything.

00:18:31.800 This is the frustrating thing because the issue is what I said.

00:18:34.240 The issue, if you look at the vast majority of people that are coming in and you talk about

00:18:37.200 things like catch and release, it's asylum seekers.

00:18:38.980 These are laws in the books that have to change.

00:18:40.800 You can go to a border right now as a little immigrant and just like, hey, I'm like claiming 1.00

00:18:44.320 asylum.

00:18:45.000 Can I come in?

00:18:45.420 It's nothing to do with laws.

00:18:46.160 And then that's the issue that you have when you're trying to deal with our current immigration 0.92

00:18:50.940 issue is the asylum seeking process.

00:18:52.780 And you say that like, well, other countries have borders and they don't have to deal with this.

00:18:57.220 When the Syrian refugee crisis happened, I'm sure you remember, because I think it was

00:19:00.180 probably a big motivating factor for Brexit, even if it was in the background.

00:19:03.880 There were tons of refugees that were streaming into Europe and there was a huge crisis.

00:19:07.440 You saw a lot of right-wing parties gain popularity because of how unhappy people were.

00:19:11.320 In Sweden, you've still got residual issues relating to those immigrants.

00:19:14.380 You had the AFD rising of popularity in Germany.

00:19:16.780 You had Marie Le Pen becoming popular again in France.

00:19:19.100 I totally agree with you.

00:19:20.040 But the problem is that all of those decisions about letting those people in, they were political

00:19:25.000 decisions.

00:19:25.940 And that's why people are frustrated because the decision to allow a million refugees, 0.98

00:19:30.180 into Germany was a political decision after which Angela Merkel admitted that multiculturalism

00:19:35.780 doesn't work.

00:19:36.780 It's not like the countries fail to have a border.

00:19:39.440 It's that politicians choose to create a situation where millions of people flood into

00:19:44.900 United States.

00:19:45.520 I agree.

00:19:45.620 But that's the choice that Trump and the Republicans have made right now when we've said, hey,

00:19:49.640 we can change this with bipartisan infrastructure or with bipartisan immigration legislation.

00:19:55.020 It was on the books.

00:19:55.940 It was or it wasn't on the books.

00:19:56.980 It was a bill.

00:19:57.500 It was ready to be passed.

00:19:58.360 It would have addressed all of these issues.

00:19:59.880 But Trump told Republicans, do not pass this bill.

00:20:02.700 I need this as an election issue.

00:20:04.380 And he didn't.

00:20:04.880 Even though this bill had, I wish I could remember the name of the Republican that had

00:20:08.700 co-authored this.

00:20:09.520 But this is like a basically a Republican authored bill that would have fixed all of these problems.

00:20:13.220 I want to give you more time on the other points.

00:20:14.760 But I will say one also.

00:20:15.620 Because conservatives love to bring up the lowest unemployment for minorities under Trump

00:20:20.220 and blah, blah, blah.

00:20:20.900 We have the lowest unemployment for minorities right now under Biden.

00:20:23.600 The idea that you would look at unemployment and use that as like a win for Trump when

00:20:26.600 unemployment under Biden has been the lowest that it has been in all of U.S. history.

00:20:30.180 And it's after rebuilding an economy and not like soaring ahead of like historically low

00:20:34.820 interest rates year after year after year, which kind of led into a lot of the issues

00:20:38.640 that we experienced with inflation and having to tighten up interest rates and everything.

00:20:42.820 The economy under Biden has done exceedingly well.

00:20:45.080 It would be nice if we had a Democrat come into office that wasn't trying to clean up 0.97

00:20:49.260 the mess of the last conservative.

00:20:50.580 We had Obama come in after Bush's, the end of Bush's presidency, which was a 2007 housing

00:20:56.500 crisis, which was like an international financial issue.

00:20:58.940 And then we had Biden come in after Trump's horrible mishandling of COVID.

00:21:03.080 It would be nice if we could actually get a Democrat to come in and run a clean four years

00:21:06.640 instead of cleaning up the mess of the last conservative and then still trying to compete on things.

00:21:09.960 So obviously you heard my interjections about immigration, and I think they're fair, certainly

00:21:15.340 from my perspective.

00:21:16.700 But the one thing I have also heard, including from many Republicans who who who might be

00:21:21.360 mutual friends of ours or people who are high up in the Republican Party, is that Donald

00:21:25.640 Trump is playing politics with these issues right now in order that he has a better chance

00:21:30.400 of winning.

00:21:31.140 Do you accept that?

00:21:32.020 No, I don't.

00:21:32.560 Let's talk about this canard that the left wants to fix this.

00:21:36.140 And they had legislation that a rhino fake conservative sponsored in the Senate. 0.96

00:21:41.120 The legislation stated that if you sign this into law, you will allow at least 5,000 illegals

00:21:50.240 into America every 24 hours.

00:21:52.720 Of course, we're going to say that's garbage.

00:21:54.720 That's insanity.

00:21:55.900 The idea that they in good faith want to fix this.

00:21:59.100 Let's just look.

00:22:00.120 In preparation for today, I called up the former Commission of Customs and Border Protection.

00:22:04.400 And I asked him, what is the situation like?

00:22:07.120 Let's just talk about one statistic.

00:22:08.760 Because, you know, 8 million illegals, it's hard to even fathom. 1.00

00:22:12.620 In the last three and a half years, they have intercepted 47,000 felons at the border.

00:22:20.320 These are criminals coming into America. 0.99

00:22:23.000 That is a 99% increase over our four years in government.

00:22:28.300 Let's just say 100% increase.

00:22:30.140 Besides that, they found 160,000 felons, convicted felons in America, including 4,700 murderers

00:22:41.080 and 8,000 gang members, one of whom murdered a beautiful 22-year-old nursing student called 0.96

00:22:48.460 Laken Riley in Georgia.

00:22:50.360 A man who murdered her after he was asyleed into America by Joe Biden's system, was then 0.98

00:22:58.960 arrested for endangerment of a minor in New York.

00:23:01.920 And Alvin Bragg, the Democrat DA of New York, led him onto the streets so he could murder

00:23:07.060 this 22-year-old.

00:23:08.360 Let's be clear.

00:23:09.640 They created this.

00:23:11.260 You're right.

00:23:12.140 It's policy decisions.

00:23:13.320 My parents were real refugees, real asylum seekers, because if my dad had gone back to 0.98

00:23:19.520 the land of his birth as an escaped prisoner from a communist prison, he would have been

00:23:24.980 shot on sight.

00:23:26.960 Not, you can't say 8 million political prisoners are coming across the border into America.

00:23:33.180 And let's just use the stats of the left.

00:23:35.980 The United Nations, hardly a hard-magger entity.

00:23:39.960 Human Rights Watch, not exactly America first.

00:23:43.780 What have these organizations stated about the deluge, the invasion of illegals across

00:23:49.340 our border under Biden?

00:23:50.980 Between 50 and 60 percent of the girls and the women are being raped or sexually assaulted

00:23:59.520 by the coyotes, by the human traffickers.

00:24:02.480 It is absolutely empirically a statement of fact that Joe Biden has become the largest human

00:24:09.060 trafficker in human history.

00:24:11.040 The party of...

00:24:12.040 Come on, sir.

00:24:12.900 No.

00:24:13.220 Come on.

00:24:14.320 Numerically.

00:24:14.860 Come on.

00:24:15.540 Numerically.

00:24:16.080 No, no.

00:24:16.240 That's not what I'm disputing.

00:24:17.420 I'm disputing the idea that he's a human trafficker.

00:24:19.960 Totally.

00:24:20.560 His policies...

00:24:21.560 It's happening under his watch.

00:24:23.040 His decision.

00:24:24.460 Let's talk about what he said.

00:24:25.800 No, hold on.

00:24:26.500 He's not a human trafficker.

00:24:27.560 He is.

00:24:27.840 That's ridiculous.

00:24:28.420 His policies have made his government empirically...

00:24:33.040 You can't argue with 12,000 illegals a day. 1.00

00:24:36.900 12,000!

00:24:37.800 To call someone a human trafficker implies they're doing it on purpose.

00:24:40.620 Come on.

00:24:40.700 They are doing it on purpose.

00:24:41.780 I'll tell you why.

00:24:43.000 Because they are so bigoted and so racist.

00:24:45.680 Remember, this is the Democrat Party, the party of the KKK, the party of the Jim Crow laws. 0.73

00:24:50.200 This is the party whose activist murdered the first Republican president, Lincoln, the great

00:24:55.800 emancipator.

00:24:56.440 This is the DNA of the Democrats.

00:24:58.620 The Democrats are so fundamentally bigoted.

00:25:01.580 They believe if we let in millions of illegals because they're brown-skinned, because they're

00:25:06.260 black-skinned, when we amnesty them and give them naturalization and citizenship, they 1.00

00:25:11.260 will vote for us because of their skin color.

00:25:13.900 This is CRT at its core, critical race theory, and that's why they're doing it.

00:25:18.560 This isn't an accident.

00:25:19.680 You don't open the borders on accident.

00:25:21.420 You know that.

00:25:22.300 And this isn't because of humanitarian stuff.

00:25:24.540 Let's talk about why it's happening, technically, and why he is the largest human traffic.

00:25:28.300 Finish the point, and then I want to say something.

00:25:29.940 How do these people come into America? 0.99

00:25:33.080 Do you know what CBP-1 is, Stephen?

00:25:36.060 CBP-1 is the app that illegals download on their way to America. 0.60

00:25:41.600 It's funded by you and me, by American taxpayers.

00:25:44.120 They're sitting in Mexico.

00:25:46.280 They're sitting in the Dominican Republic.

00:25:48.060 They're sitting in Afghanistan.

00:25:49.720 And they download an app where they pre-clear themselves.

00:25:52.900 You tick a box.

00:25:54.700 I am Mickey Mouse, and I'm an asylum seeker.

00:25:58.680 When you cross the border, you say, hey, I'm registered, and you're let into America.

00:26:04.120 That's deliberate, Konstantin.

00:26:06.280 That's not accidental.

00:26:07.660 That's deliberate.

00:26:08.540 And these people aren't political refugees.

00:26:11.400 Okay.

00:26:12.020 Why didn't you build a wall when you had the chance?

00:26:14.580 We tried to, and we were stymied, consistent.

00:26:16.520 You know what President Trump had to do?

00:26:17.580 This is the insanity.

00:26:19.460 The protestations from the establishment were hysterical.

00:26:24.440 We had to repurpose DOD funds and say the border is actually a security issue if you've

00:26:30.900 got terrorists coming across the border.

00:26:32.320 We had to repurpose national security funds to build the border and buy the steel to build

00:26:40.260 the wall.

00:26:41.040 And that took us over a year.

00:26:42.860 What does Joe Biden do?

00:26:44.360 He comes into the administration, and the steel members that we had bought to secure 0.60

00:26:50.280 the border, he sold them for scrap iron.

00:26:54.080 That's why it's deliberate, and that's why he's a human trafficker.

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00:27:26.600 The talking points are funny.

00:27:30.360 I think it's really funny.

00:27:31.580 I think if you're listening to this in video form, I think you should rewind because I think

00:27:34.800 Seb accidentally gave away part of the plot.

00:27:36.780 It's funny because you described that border bill, and you said that it allows 5,000 illegal

00:27:41.480 immigrants to come in a day. 0.95

00:27:42.600 Minimum.

00:27:43.220 Minimum?

00:27:43.640 Minimum.

00:27:44.140 That was the maximum cap.

00:27:45.520 No.

00:27:45.700 One of the issues that we faced.

00:27:47.200 Read the verbiage.

00:27:47.600 I did.

00:27:47.900 Sir, I did read it.

00:27:48.660 Read the verbiage.

00:27:48.800 Let me finish.

00:27:49.320 I did read it.

00:27:49.800 It's plastic as well.

00:27:50.560 Let him finish.

00:27:51.000 No, I did read it.

00:27:51.520 And it's funny because what you'd said later on was that we were seeing numbers sometimes

00:27:55.900 in excess of 12,000 per day.

00:27:58.080 The reason why that bill was so important, one of the things that would have been nice

00:28:02.160 is it would have actually placed a cap on the amount of people that were coming in and

00:28:05.520 claiming asylum.

00:28:06.360 That 5,000 per day would have said that once we hit this cap, we are not processing anybody

00:28:10.340 else.

00:28:10.580 You could have the most legitimate asylum claim in the world and we would not allow 1.00

00:28:14.260 you into this country, which was already about to be challenged by a ton of legal people

00:28:17.780 around the United States.

00:28:19.040 And I think the international, there were international bodies as well because whether

00:28:22.220 or not you can cap asylum seekers is still an internationally debated topic, but that is

00:28:26.480 what that legislation seek to do.

00:28:28.780 If you feel, again, so passionately about the border, why didn't we pass any bipartisan

00:28:34.380 infrastructure or bipartisan immigration legislation?

00:28:37.240 Why did Trump shut it down?

00:28:38.160 Because you have to have the other side acting in good faith.

00:28:40.240 You can say that, but that's, you did.

00:28:43.820 If you really truly believe that the other side is at fault, then it seems like you need 0.92

00:28:47.400 a candidate besides Trump because Trump wasn't able to get anything done when he was president.

00:28:50.560 You just said it yourself that Trump had to repurpose DOD funds to do it.

00:28:54.380 Trump had a larger margin in Congress.

00:28:57.020 Trump had all three branches of government and accomplished less than Biden did when it

00:29:00.720 came to legislation, when it came to the border, when it came to infrastructure, when

00:29:03.380 it came to foreign policy, when it came to almost every single aspect of running

00:29:06.580 this country.

00:29:07.080 And Trump was the one that came in saying, I'm the business guy.

00:29:09.180 I can bring people together.

00:29:10.460 I can get these things done because I know how to get people to work together.

00:29:13.000 And all I hear from people once Trump left office was, well, the deep state got me and

00:29:17.300 it was the other guys and that I couldn't do anything.

00:29:19.180 I had to take money from the DOD to do it.

00:29:20.700 I couldn't, I couldn't figure anything out and blah, blah, blah.

00:29:22.840 And now that he's out of office, supposedly running for America, despite the fact that what

00:29:26.620 he's really running for is so that he can pardon himself from his crimes and be immune

00:29:29.500 from hopefully state charges.

00:29:30.720 What he's really running for, yeah, is to save himself.

00:29:34.820 And that's why he didn't care about the border.

00:29:36.480 That's why he tries to continue the border problems.

00:29:38.680 He wasn't able to fix it when he was in office because he's more concerned with his reputation

00:29:41.740 than actually bringing people together to get anything done.

00:29:44.380 I just, I don't understand how, even if you believe everything that you've said, that

00:29:48.740 asylum seeking is an issue, that illegal immigration is an issue, even if you believe that these

00:29:52.660 are issues that are brought by Democrats intentionally and they're destroying the country, which are

00:29:56.160 all ridiculous claims, Donald Trump is not the guy to fix them because he already proved

00:29:59.660 that he couldn't do it once.

00:30:00.820 All right.

00:30:01.100 So we can go back and forth saying, I read this, I read that.

00:30:06.200 Look it up for yourselves.

00:30:07.380 Everybody can do that.

00:30:08.260 Okay.

00:30:08.660 I just want it to be common sense.

00:30:10.680 Because does anybody with a straight face have the capacity to say, yeah, the Democrats

00:30:17.000 are strong on the border and immigration and Trump isn't.

00:30:21.100 I mean, it just, it beggars belief.

00:30:22.720 It's risible.

00:30:23.400 That's one of the weaker points Stephen made, but I think a very strong point that he made

00:30:27.540 right at the end, and the one I'd like to hear your answer is, Donald Trump, you say,

00:30:32.460 didn't build the wall because there was a lack of support from the other side.

00:30:36.800 They were not acting in good faith.

00:30:38.020 Okay.

00:30:39.280 Well, you think there's going to be more good faith after he gets elected, let's say,

00:30:42.220 in 2024?

00:30:43.460 Right.

00:30:43.840 I'm not sure it's the good faith that's the problem.

00:30:45.960 He seems to paint President Trump.

00:30:48.240 No, you said this earlier.

00:30:49.180 No, no.

00:30:49.580 But let me just unpack it in terms of what's possible and what isn't.

00:30:53.220 I said this when I was in the White House.

00:30:54.960 I said it after I left the White House.

00:30:56.900 Donald Trump won the election despite the GOP, not thanks to the GOP.

00:31:01.440 I mean, this is the oddity.

00:31:02.780 I mean, this is what Americans forget.

00:31:04.060 And I find it funny that I have to, you know, remind Americans who were born here, unlike 1.00

00:31:08.060 me, a legal immigrant, that Donald Trump, the American people did something utterly

00:31:13.900 historic in 2016.

00:31:15.940 Because prior to that, every chief executive from George Washington to Obama was from the

00:31:20.700 same class.

00:31:22.280 They were either senators, congressmen, governors, or retired four-star generals, every single

00:31:28.340 one from George Washington to Obama.

00:31:30.400 Then what did the American people do in 2016?

00:31:33.800 They say, we've had it with the swamp, the establishment, the rhinos, the Democrats.

00:31:39.180 They elect a man who's never run for any office, not county dog catcher, a guy who has no political

00:31:45.560 background.

00:31:46.020 And they say, F you to the establishment.

00:31:49.560 We want him.

00:31:50.560 That's actually historic.

00:31:52.880 Now, that's what the president had to compete with.

00:31:55.580 When we walked into the White House on January 21st, I said this publicly back then, there

00:32:00.880 were less than 20 of us in senior positions like myself who were actually America first

00:32:05.680 and MAGA, right?

00:32:07.660 Because it was an insurgency.

00:32:11.020 It was a political insurgency.

00:32:12.360 The establishment hated President Trump.

00:32:15.240 We had people inside the building who were actively subverting him, even his former chief

00:32:19.240 of staff.

00:32:19.740 That will not happen in a second Trump administration because the president understands what Reagan

00:32:24.360 taught us.

00:32:25.500 Personnel is policy.

00:32:27.640 We can't have, you know, people betraying the will of the American voter inside the wire,

00:32:33.700 inside the building.

00:32:34.860 It's more than just, oh, well, he didn't pass legislation.

00:32:38.340 He actively had people who believe in the footsie under the table with the other side.

00:32:43.160 I'll get my cushy, you know, lobbyist job after I leave Congress.

00:32:46.120 That's changed in the last eight years.

00:32:49.640 The Republican Party now is MAGA, is America first.

00:32:54.320 There's a few holdouts and rhinos who are leaving like Mitt Romney, but the situation for getting 1.00

00:32:59.860 even more stuff fixed is much brighter than it was when we walked in in 2016.

00:33:06.600 Stephen, anything you want to say?

00:33:09.000 Populism usually takes a pretty predictable route where people are frustrated with a set

00:33:16.180 of circumstances, which to be fair, there's a lot of things to be frustrated about.

00:33:20.080 And what you do is you turn to a strong man who promises to deliver you from all of your

00:33:24.060 evils, to deliver you from the pain and the suffering of whatever around you, because

00:33:28.120 he's the one source of truth, the one source of goodness, the one guy that can get the

00:33:32.080 job done.

00:33:33.000 That's what Donald Trump sold himself as when he came into office.

00:33:35.340 And like every populist, he came in, he over-promised, and he under-delivered.

00:33:39.160 Trump failed on every single conceivable metric when it came to being a president.

00:33:44.500 Besides, and I will admit, he is very funny.

00:33:47.280 He's very funny.

00:33:47.920 He's got good stage presence and he can work a crowd.

00:33:50.380 That's why the nicest thing-

00:33:51.140 The economy was pretty good during his period until COVID hit.

00:33:53.260 The economy was good.

00:33:55.620 But I mean, like, you can Google markets.

00:33:58.080 You can look at indicators.

00:33:59.280 Like, everything had been hitting all-time high since 2013 under Obama, right?

00:34:03.320 Ever since the economy crashed after 2007 and started to recover, that same recovery

00:34:07.000 happened under Trump.

00:34:08.240 And it was happening with pretty low interest rates.

00:34:11.140 And it was just carried on from Obama's administration.

00:34:14.600 People will say, well, the economy was really good under Trump.

00:34:16.800 What did Trump even do?

00:34:18.100 He did a bunch of tax cuts and that's it.

00:34:21.340 He didn't really do much else.

00:34:22.440 Let me answer that question.

00:34:22.980 And then as a quick thing again, I'm sorry, but my managerial experience in the ordinary

00:34:30.000 world outside of the, I guess, the YouTube world I live in now is limited.

00:34:34.200 But I was a supervisor in a restaurant.

00:34:36.620 If I was given a shift and all my tables were dirty and my manager comes in and she sees

00:34:42.420 my restaurant, it's my ass.

00:34:44.460 I'm in trouble.

00:34:45.220 I can't say, well, these employees were working against me and these guys didn't show up

00:34:49.160 and these guys didn't call in and she said, okay, well, you're getting paid the big bucks.

00:34:52.020 It's your responsibility.

00:34:52.860 You're the leader there, right?

00:34:54.100 When Trump was coming into office, because I am an ardent capitalist, the only redeeming

00:34:58.160 quality I saw was, well, okay, he is a business guy.

00:35:01.160 So at the very least, maybe he's got some comprehension in terms of how to get people

00:35:04.380 with different opinions to actually work together.

00:35:06.380 And he is the most divisive leader in like all of U.S. history, or at least in recent U.S.

00:35:12.200 history.

00:35:12.700 The idea that, you know, even his former chief of staff was against him, like that's a point

00:35:16.520 in favor of Trump.

00:35:17.480 These are your people.

00:35:18.400 You're nominated.

00:35:18.940 How is it that every person that's worked with him, how is it that his former attorney

00:35:22.920 generals, his chiefs of staff, his personal friends, his personal lawyers, when you have

00:35:27.000 this many people around you that are saying to the rest of the world, don't trust this

00:35:30.920 guy.

00:35:31.460 This guy is no good.

00:35:32.820 I don't work with him anymore.

00:35:33.860 I don't trust this guy anymore.

00:35:35.180 Like at what point do you look at him and you're like, okay, well, maybe it's not actually

00:35:38.700 the deep state, every single institution, all of the media, all of the world, all of academia,

00:35:43.460 and all of the politicians against him.

00:35:45.080 Maybe it's just kind of like a bad person who's not very good at getting his job done.

00:35:47.960 This is, it's like you live in an alternate universe.

00:35:52.720 I know you're on YouTube and that those are your qualifications.

00:35:55.160 We're all on YouTube, Sam.

00:35:56.880 No, I'm not.

00:35:58.120 No, I'm not.

00:35:59.380 I've been banned.

00:36:00.780 I've been banned on YouTube, right?

00:36:02.380 So, you know, I take that as a mark of honor.

00:36:04.560 I'm on Rumble.

00:36:05.040 So let's be, this idea that he failed at everything.

00:36:08.640 Yeah, that's a great description of Joe Biden, from mortgage rates to inflation, to the price

00:36:13.580 of energy, to surrendering in Kabul, to the invasion of Ukraine, to October the 7th.

00:36:20.020 Yeah, massive successes in the last three and a half years.

00:36:23.160 Let's talk about my bailiwick.

00:36:24.520 Let's talk about national security.

00:36:25.860 We had been told by our predecessor, Obama, that ISIS, quote, is a threat we just have

00:36:32.100 to get to learn to live with.

00:36:34.420 Can't be solved.

00:36:35.440 Just going to live with it.

00:36:36.680 When we came into the White House, President Trump got the lawyers out of the way and unleashed

00:36:41.860 JSOC and Delta Force.

00:36:43.760 Within five months, the caliphate of ISIS was gone.

00:36:48.260 Kaput.

00:36:48.740 But China, we initiated a trade war with China.

00:36:53.140 We facilitated the rise of NATO to such an extent that under President Trump's presidency,

00:37:00.300 defense spending shot up by $400 billion inside NATO.

00:37:05.900 The guy who was going to destroy it actually saved it.

00:37:09.060 Then we look at, oh, I don't know, the Middle East, five peace accords, five peace accords

00:37:16.680 in less than four years.

00:37:18.880 These are meant to be failures for us.

00:37:21.820 Let's look at the international environment.

00:37:24.880 Under Obama, Ukraine, Crimea, taken.

00:37:28.120 Under Biden, again, a second invasion.

00:37:30.960 Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians dead.

00:37:33.820 The largest loss of Jewish life since the Holocaust in Israel.

00:37:39.320 And then the absolute surrender and betrayal of the Afghan people in a withdrawal that made

00:37:45.820 Saigon look like a small incident.

00:37:49.080 These are supposed to be the successes.

00:37:51.880 And as to this, oh, he's the most divisive.

00:37:55.220 It's so peculiar, but I find it incapable.

00:37:57.960 I find it impossible to remember my former boss giving speeches in front of iconic locales,

00:38:05.400 such as Independence Hall in Philadelphia, bathed in red fascistic light, with Marines standing,

00:38:12.720 flanking him, labeling half of America extremists and fascists, and preaching to us about white

00:38:19.620 supremacy in his State of the Union address.

00:38:22.500 That really brings us together.

00:38:24.280 This is the man who told us, Biden said on his inauguration, I'm going to bring you together

00:38:28.380 by calling half the nation white supremacists.

00:38:32.620 When the real racist problem in America are the Democrats on the campuses saying,

00:38:40.480 death to America, from the river to the sea if you're Jewish, that's the left today. 1.00

00:38:46.780 Radicals who hate America. 0.99

00:38:48.300 I go back to my original point.

00:38:50.340 And then this strange idea of populism, using this label as a smear, some kind of pejorative.

00:38:57.540 I don't know.

00:38:58.280 I remember the good old days, where if you had the popular support of the people, that

00:39:03.160 was a good thing.

00:39:04.040 I don't like the elites.

00:39:05.380 They stink.

00:39:06.480 They're corrupt.

00:39:07.380 But a guy comes along who has popular support, no, no, no, the elites will decide.

00:39:12.060 Just like Sam Harris destroyed himself on your podcast when he said, I don't care if Hunter

00:39:16.480 Biden had dead children in his basement.

00:39:19.100 The plot against Donald Trump and the election in 2020 was, quote, justified.

00:39:25.580 That's the left.

00:39:27.140 That's the other side.

00:39:28.520 Those are the divisive people.

00:39:30.320 I want to talk about a couple of things you raised there, which is foreign policy, geopolitics,

00:39:35.120 et cetera, and also what's happening on college campuses, Stephen, as well.

00:39:38.440 I would like you, before I go back to Stephen, to address you the one point that he made,

00:39:42.900 which I think is worth exploring, which is, we say this guy knows how to get things done.

00:39:48.820 And you say you had all these people in the White House and elsewhere who were working

00:39:52.220 against him.

00:39:53.220 What about what Stephen said, which is, he just seems like an asshole that annoys everyone and

00:39:57.040 people can't work with him?

00:39:58.800 Well, look, I've said it many times before.

00:40:01.300 It is absolutely remarkable what he achieved in really, not four years, two years, despite

00:40:08.100 the people who are subverting him because they represent the elite class.

00:40:11.800 What were those achievements again?

00:40:13.000 Yes.

00:40:13.100 The strongest economy you've ever had, lowest unemployment.

00:40:16.240 No, no, like things he's done, not things that happened.

00:40:19.220 What do you mean?

00:40:19.900 What's the difference?

00:40:20.660 So like if I stand outside and a tree grows, I wouldn't say that I grew the tree.

00:40:23.880 Oh, yeah.

00:40:24.120 If I planted the seeds for the tree, I would say, yeah.

00:40:25.520 He did nothing in regards to the economy.

00:40:26.860 Yeah, I'll give you the example.

00:40:28.360 You said he did nothing with, not his responsibility.

00:40:32.680 When we came into the White House, the president had a modest goal.

00:40:36.960 He said, I've had it with the growth of the state, you know, the burden on the average American.

00:40:43.500 60% of businesses are small businesses in America.

00:40:46.860 I want to get the monkey off the back of the guy who has the family company. 0.67

00:40:52.020 So what did he do?

00:40:53.160 He said, I'm not going to sign any executive orders as president unless for everyone I sign,

00:40:58.760 two are rescinded.

00:40:59.780 I want to have a redress of the balance, the abuse of executive power.

00:41:04.600 We said, OK, sir, by not the end of the first year, by the 10th month of the first year,

00:41:12.560 that figure wasn't two to one.

00:41:14.200 The figure was 22 to one.

00:41:15.840 We had rescinded 22 executive orders for every new one the president's side.

00:41:22.920 That's how you unleash the economy.

00:41:25.160 And that's exactly what happened.

00:41:26.820 When you allow federal government lands to be used for energy exploration,

00:41:31.020 when you say, yes, XL Keystone Pipeline, when you block Russia's Nord Stream,

00:41:35.620 that's when you unleash the American people.

00:41:37.980 And that's on President Trump.

00:41:39.640 Let's just finish this point, Seb, which is about the fact that Donald Trump is not able to lead the country well

00:41:46.880 because he's not able to bring enough people with him to buy into his vision.

00:41:51.920 And instead, you had constant turmoil internally.

00:41:55.060 And it's not just rhinos who were leaving.

00:41:57.260 It was people like Steve Bannon.

00:41:59.220 No, he didn't.

00:41:59.820 He didn't leave.

00:42:00.460 He was fired by the chief of staff who was an actual seditionist, right?

00:42:06.460 John Kelly fired him.

00:42:08.060 And Steve didn't want to go.

00:42:09.720 So why didn't Donald Trump overrule him and say, this is my guy?

00:42:12.320 Because he trusted Kelly.

00:42:13.580 This is a four-star general, right?

00:42:15.580 This is a guy who was in the Marine Corps.

00:42:18.080 Sadly, he didn't know.

00:42:19.200 He didn't have buddies in the swamp.

00:42:20.800 But now, after the last seven years, let me assure you, because this is my number one concern,

00:42:25.580 and I've discussed it with the president,

00:42:27.620 he knows who to trust and he knows who not to trust.

00:42:31.620 Therefore, he will achieve even more, God willing, if we reelect him in November.

00:42:36.900 All right, Stephen, go for it.

00:42:38.220 We'll do a few minutes with you.

00:42:39.480 And then I want to move on to geopolitics.

00:42:41.600 Yeah, I can incorporate that even.

00:42:44.020 Yeah, the idea that Trump, a billionaire real estate developer from New York,

00:42:47.160 didn't have friends in the swamp, which is very funny to me.

00:42:49.380 In the political swamp.

00:42:50.160 Wasn't this guy, wasn't he literally in pictures at Hillary and Bill Clinton's wedding?

00:42:53.460 I mean, like, the idea that...

00:42:54.600 You're living in Manhattan.

00:42:55.820 That doesn't mean you're running a political campaign.

00:42:58.080 No, but you have the connections.

00:42:59.120 He's a realtor.

00:42:59.780 Yeah.

00:43:00.160 He's a realtor.

00:43:00.860 A billionaire realtor.

00:43:01.600 Who doesn't, has never run anything in government.

00:43:03.760 How would you know who the good bureaucrat is and the crappy one like Fauci?

00:43:07.680 How would you know that?

00:43:08.600 You're building real estate.

00:43:11.120 Because real estate...

00:43:12.000 Do you know a lot?

00:43:13.060 You're in media.

00:43:13.920 Do you know how to create a cable TV show?

00:43:16.620 I know a decent bit about real estate.

00:43:20.440 And I know that real estate is one of the most tax-advantaged things.

00:43:22.900 I know that real estate has some of the highest integrations with city council planners,

00:43:26.660 with policies, with...

00:43:26.760 Does that mean he knows who the secretary of defense should be?

00:43:29.080 It's absurd.

00:43:29.800 If he doesn't have any of these ideas, then you're making a very strong argument for career

00:43:32.820 politicians.

00:43:33.580 This is why people that tend to do politics stay in politics.

00:43:35.880 It's because they're actually able to know these things.

00:43:37.660 They understand these things.

00:43:38.340 They have these relationships.

00:43:38.960 We need more of them, Stephen.

00:43:40.220 Well, considering that Trump, again, failed in every conceivable metric, and you weren't

00:43:43.320 able to give me any strong things that he actually succeeded in...

00:43:45.200 I just listed them.

00:43:46.140 Hold on.

00:43:46.660 Let him talk.

00:43:46.740 You said that he rescinded executive orders.

00:43:49.580 That is a measurable increase.

00:43:51.060 Give me something like the CHIPS Act.

00:43:52.660 Give me something like...

00:43:52.800 Do you not think that matters, though?

00:43:53.880 I mean, for the people who want to reduce the size of government, that would be a thing...

00:43:58.280 It's a lip service thing.

00:43:59.260 I would encourage everybody that hears...

00:44:00.740 There's two lines that people...

00:44:02.120 There's one really common line that politicians always say.

00:44:04.960 It's politispeak, which is funny that Trump utilized it, but it's this, I'm going to go

00:44:09.220 line by line through the budget.

00:44:10.840 I'm going to go line by line, and I'm going to get rid of all wasteful spending.

00:44:13.720 First of all, this is just fiscal stuff, okay?

00:44:15.860 This impacts your budget, which, by the way, Trump ran record deficits when he was in office,

00:44:19.940 so budgetarily he still failed.

00:44:21.780 But this doesn't improve your economy or unleash your economy.

00:44:24.540 It's not like we were rescinding significant executive orders that was destroying our ability

00:44:28.040 to actually succeed.

00:44:29.320 If anything, I would say that the most successful businesses that we had growing in the United

00:44:32.240 States were our tech companies that Republicans are constantly trying to undermine and destroy

00:44:35.680 by getting rid of Section 230, which would make us who could sue Twitter when somebody

00:44:38.740 posts something on Twitter that I don't like.

00:44:40.580 So, no, the idea that Trump was unleashing the economy by rescinding some irrelevant executive

00:44:44.900 orders that had no impact on the economy anyway, and the fact that he was still running

00:44:48.520 these record-level deficits, even though the economy was exploding all three years,

00:44:52.500 at least under his presidency, is ridiculous.

00:44:55.860 Oh, man.

00:44:57.420 If we want to go foreign policy, Jesus, almost every single decision that Trump made under

00:45:04.680 foreign policy was either a form of kicking the can down the road or it just did nothing.

00:45:08.860 We talk about, like, the historic stuff that happened with the Abraham Accords.

00:45:12.840 I'm sorry, but the Abraham Accords started because Netanyahu was on the verge of annexing the 0.78

00:45:17.240 West Bank, and the Gulf states were like, this is probably not a good idea, and a lot of people

00:45:21.220 are going to be mad.

00:45:22.160 And then Kushner hopped in, and there were official conversations that were essentially

00:45:25.000 facilitated, and then eventually you start getting these bilateral treaties that are

00:45:28.320 signed between Israel and other countries.

00:45:29.900 But these bilateral treaties did something very important that's happened with other

00:45:33.380 treaties with Israel, and that is that they undermined the Palestinians.

00:45:36.280 They didn't include them in any of the conversations.

00:45:38.540 So when you look at what happened on October 7th, and then you look at Biden, you go, man,

00:45:42.260 this must be Biden's fault.

00:45:43.500 It's like, okay, well, didn't we just have a historic round of talks with countries in

00:45:47.720 the Middle East?

00:45:48.340 How is it that the Palestinians were excluded yet again from these talks, you know?

00:45:52.260 And the idea that Trump was some strong partner in the Middle East when in 2019, Iran literally

00:45:56.840 was shooting drones and missiles over into Saudi Arabian refineries, and the United States

00:46:01.000 stood by and did nothing.

00:46:02.360 Or the idea that we're going to stand here and we're going to say, oh my God, in Afghanistan,

00:46:05.980 you know, we pulled out and we abandoned our people.

00:46:07.780 One, that timetable was sent by Donald Trump.

00:46:10.320 He had a round of talks called the Doha talks that happened with the Taliban, and the Afghanistan

00:46:14.480 government was completely excluded from those talks.

00:46:17.120 When Biden came into office, we'd already been drawn down to historically low numbers

00:46:20.880 in Afghanistan.

00:46:21.840 We had almost no military presence left over there.

00:46:24.140 When Biden came into office, basically the last thing, the only thing left to do was to

00:46:27.460 follow through on Trump's timetable, which was to pull us out of Afghanistan.

00:46:30.860 Hold on a second.

00:46:32.060 Just on that particular thing, didn't you just say that if you're managing a restaurant and

00:46:35.840 your boss comes in and sees a messy table, that's on you.

00:46:39.180 And yet in this situation, you're saying it's Donald Trump's fault, even though it's Joe

00:46:42.980 Biden that did it.

00:46:44.020 Nice.

00:46:44.500 There is, it's not nice, and I'll explain why.

00:46:46.920 If you take over and you-

00:46:48.000 I'm just trying to be fair.

00:46:48.720 No, that's fine.

00:46:49.600 It's a good question.

00:46:50.720 It's a good question.

00:46:51.360 If you take over a restaurant and you're the manager of a restaurant, you bought a business,

00:46:54.880 and somebody comes in and they say, hey, I'm going to actually, I'm going to sit

00:46:58.400 here with me and 20 friends, okay, because that's what we're going to do.

00:47:00.780 And I go, well, no, that's bullshit.

00:47:01.960 And I go, well, actually, you bought this restaurant and we signed a contract with your

00:47:05.580 last boss that gave us the right to do this for a year.

00:47:08.100 Well, if you buy a business, generally, you also inherit, along with the assets and liabilities,

00:47:11.500 prior agreements you've signed as well, or the previous owner did.

00:47:14.920 With the Doha agreements, we were on a timetable to leave.

00:47:17.900 Now, could Biden have increased the troop presence and fought against that withdrawal?

00:47:21.860 He could have, but then at what cost?

00:47:24.420 Remember, it only takes one or two attacks against U.S. soldiers by the Taliban to have the

00:47:28.580 United States thinking like, well, shoot, do we need to stay there for another

00:47:30.780 10 or 20 years?

00:47:32.160 I agree that the pullout could have gone better.

00:47:34.860 I think that there were people that should have had the opportunity to leave that country

00:47:38.520 that worked with us, that should have come out, that didn't get that opportunity.

00:47:42.800 But compare that to say, because remember, this is done under a Trump timetable.

00:47:46.960 What is Trump's excuse for abandoning the Kurds that we fought alongside in Syria to a Turkish

00:47:51.360 onslaught?

00:47:51.920 There was no excuse for that.

00:47:53.000 There was no reason for that.

00:47:54.260 But he did that with, I don't even know because he said, well, I don't want to be in the Middle

00:47:57.640 East anymore.

00:47:58.800 And then he what?

00:47:59.600 He obscured all the information relating to Yemen drone strikes that we were helping

00:48:03.840 Saudi Arabia with, as opposed to Biden, who said we're no longer going to participate in

00:48:07.420 the Saudi-led coalition in Yemen, which was, I think, an improvement. 0.73

00:48:11.440 We axed the Iranian nuclear deal and then we replaced it with nothing. 0.62

00:48:16.440 I guess ostensibly that's supposed to keep Iran from pursuing nuclear weapons.

00:48:19.700 We had historic photographs taken with Kim and our leaders for nothing, I guess.

00:48:27.000 I've heard Sebastian claim in the past that they stopped ballistic missile testing.

00:48:30.800 That's not true, that you can literally go on the Wikipedia and read, test, test, test,

00:48:33.740 test, test after the dates.

00:48:35.540 Pence and I believe Tillerson were both complaining about those talks because literally nothing

00:48:38.820 got done in North Korea.

00:48:40.920 Yeah, every part of Donald Trump's foreign policy, it was a disaster.

00:48:45.080 Let me give you a narrative that is popular with people who probably don't agree with

00:48:51.880 you, which is that the main thing about Donald Trump is that people around the world, and

00:48:58.060 I can tell you this is true, people around the world feared and respected him.

00:49:01.800 They didn't like him necessarily, but they feared and respected him.

00:49:04.460 And the fact that you have Iran-backed people from Gaza committing October 7th, the fact that

00:49:11.660 Putin felt able to invade Ukraine, the fact that China is getting more muscular on Taiwan,

00:49:17.540 this is a sign of the perceived weakness of the United States under Joe Biden.

00:49:22.360 And you can take that at whatever level you want, all the way through to sitting down across

00:49:28.180 from Joe Biden and going, this guy can't finish a sentence.

00:49:33.240 If we want to say that the United States has a weak foreign disposition right now, I think

00:49:37.980 I would probably agree with that.

00:49:39.380 Okay.

00:49:39.560 But I don't think it's because of Biden, I think it's because of how divided we are internally.

00:49:43.080 And I think when you look at a country and you see that they're like fighting with themselves,

00:49:45.720 like, okay, well, let's come over here.

00:49:46.820 I wrote a whole book about that, so I don't agree with you.

00:49:49.080 Because like, when I look at any of these particular issues, and it's easy to kind of

00:49:51.860 like paint a story if you just like name some things and you don't really dig into them.

00:49:55.020 Like, we talk about Iran, right?

00:49:56.640 And we say, well, October 7th, Iran was bold enough to, you know, do foreign proxy training

00:50:00.920 for troops in Hamas.

00:50:01.800 Okay, well, Iran physically, literally attacked Saudi Arabia under Donald Trump and nothing happened.

00:50:06.080 So why would we imagine that they wouldn't back Hamas as well? 0.98

00:50:08.460 It's not like Trump destroyed.

00:50:09.980 It's not about imagination.

00:50:11.240 It didn't happen when Donald Trump.

00:50:12.580 Well, no, that attack did happen.

00:50:14.140 Iran attacked Saudi Arabia and Trump didn't happen.

00:50:16.020 Which is bolder than October 7th.

00:50:16.980 But October 7th didn't happen.

00:50:18.220 Sure.

00:50:18.700 But from an Iranian perspective, that attack was bolder than October 7th.

00:50:23.040 What about Ukraine, et cetera?

00:50:24.760 Yeah, for Ukraine, Donald Trump didn't, like, the Crimean Peninsula was inhabited by Russian

00:50:30.160 troops the entire time.

00:50:30.960 Donald Trump didn't do anything to stop that.

00:50:32.380 Donald Trump didn't care about that.

00:50:33.480 It's not like we wouldn't pull anything out of there.

00:50:35.620 Let me just do this bit.

00:50:37.480 That's a bit different though, Stephen, because in 2014, as Seb said correctly, under Obama,

00:50:44.780 Russia took Ukraine and started a civil war in eastern Ukraine.

00:50:49.040 Yeah.

00:50:50.180 Steve wanted us to invade.

00:50:51.260 To recapture Crimea at that point would have meant literally World War III.

00:50:55.760 So nobody could have retaken Ukraine.

00:50:58.400 It's not like Joe Biden's position when he was elected was, we're going to help Ukraine

00:51:02.400 retake Crimea.

00:51:03.560 Yeah.

00:51:04.040 So what I'm putting to you, and I think it's a fair question, is, isn't it the weakness of

00:51:10.820 the withdrawal from Afghanistan?

00:51:12.560 I think we'd both agree it was calamitous.

00:51:14.980 Whoever's fault it was, that's where the debate was.

00:51:19.180 Signaled weakness to other people who wanted to capitalize on that.

00:51:23.020 Yes, I agree with you.

00:51:24.080 The internal divisions in America contribute to that.

00:51:26.560 But ultimately, isn't a large part of this the signaling of weakness that invites challenge?

00:51:32.340 No, because again, I would say, pointing to Ukraine, it's not like Russia stopped their

00:51:36.600 military activity in Ukraine because of Trump being in office.

00:51:40.480 The invasion just hadn't escalated yet to where they were doing a full-on, actual, on-the-grounds

00:51:45.320 military invasion instead of the more-

00:51:46.560 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:51:47.820 Under Trump, post the 2014 taking of Crimea, and once the Minsk Accords are in place, there

00:51:55.460 was no hot war going on in Ukraine.

00:51:57.180 There was still the civil war in the Southeast.

00:51:58.800 That war has been raging for like 10 years.

00:52:00.800 The conflict, you think there was a total...

00:52:02.420 Didn't those Minsk agreements last for like months?

00:52:05.460 No.

00:52:06.000 Minsk one and two?

00:52:06.720 No.

00:52:07.000 Look, I have a lot of family in Ukraine.

00:52:08.540 It's the region I understand very well.

00:52:09.920 Post the Minsk Accords, there was no hot war going on.

00:52:12.620 For how long?

00:52:14.060 Well, until the invasion, basically.

00:52:16.320 Until the invasion.

00:52:17.180 It was pretty stable.

00:52:18.380 Now, I'm not saying there wasn't the occasional people, but it was broadly, there was a ceasefire

00:52:22.280 in place.

00:52:23.080 People were not killing each other en masse.

00:52:25.560 Okay.

00:52:26.560 That I can tell you from...

00:52:27.640 I'd have to go and...

00:52:29.000 He's out of his depth.

00:52:29.980 He's out of his depth.

00:52:30.560 Out of my depth?

00:52:31.380 Okay.

00:52:31.680 I mean, we can focus on the Middle East more if you want.

00:52:33.340 But yeah, no, I just, I don't think that, I mean, Trump, you know, we talk about NATO.

00:52:36.260 I think that Trump was constantly like NATO skeptic on the international level.

00:52:39.840 I think a lot of people expressed a lot of fear for that.

00:52:41.380 But he wanted them, he wanted other nations within NATO to contribute their fair share.

00:52:46.440 Yeah, their military percentage of GDP money.

00:52:48.100 Which they were not doing.

00:52:49.400 And he was saying we can't continue with NATO if America is the only country that's actually

00:52:53.760 paying its way.

00:52:54.460 Sure.

00:52:54.700 But the idea that the leader of NATO would be publicly undermining NATO and saying we might

00:52:58.440 have to pull out our stop if people don't, like, I think there are more diplomatic ways

00:53:01.580 to pursue those conversations.

00:53:02.280 He never, ever once said he was going to pull out forces.

00:53:05.600 You just make stuff up, Steve.

00:53:07.220 And you've got to stop it.

00:53:08.420 Like there was hot fighting in Ukraine.

00:53:09.900 Focus on the issue.

00:53:10.480 Come on.

00:53:10.760 No, no, this is important.

00:53:11.820 Give us the facts.

00:53:12.460 Because this is, this is, this is an era where you can win if you want.

00:53:15.720 So give us the facts.

00:53:16.500 This is tactics.

00:53:17.180 He just floods the zone with stuff that's false.

00:53:19.260 Let's address this stuff.

00:53:19.860 Let's talk about it.

00:53:20.700 We can go claim by claim if you want.

00:53:22.160 Well, that's what I'd like Seth to do.

00:53:23.460 That's what I'd like Seth to do.

00:53:24.240 When we were in the White House, and you know this, as opposed to what Obama, Obama, after

00:53:30.400 the invasion of Crimea, the jewel of Ukraine stolen, what did Obama do?

00:53:37.200 He sent blankets and night vision devices.

00:53:40.880 If you don't believe me, look it up.

00:53:42.600 Blankets and night vision devices.

00:53:44.980 When we came in, I don't understand this.

00:53:47.220 Stephen's positing that we should have invaded.

00:53:49.660 I've never said that.

00:53:50.560 Oh, well, there was land in Ukraine that the Russians controlled and Trump didn't do anything

00:53:55.320 about it.

00:53:56.180 What?

00:53:56.800 He want intervention?

00:53:57.820 I didn't know you were a neocon, Steve.

00:53:59.880 When we, when we got into the White House, did I say that we shouldn't invade anybody?

00:54:03.580 You said that Trump did nothing about the land taken by Russia.

00:54:07.620 I said that Russia didn't run away from Crimea. 0.78

00:54:09.420 They didn't fear.

00:54:09.760 And you said their operations were continuing.

00:54:12.520 Garbage.

00:54:13.020 There were no military operations in Crimea, in Ukraine, or on the border.

00:54:17.600 Crimea was captured.

00:54:17.960 And the whole thing is military operations.

00:54:20.640 There were no military, Constance is right. 0.54

00:54:23.380 There was no hot war.

00:54:24.380 You're just making stuff up.

00:54:26.160 When we came into the White House, we deployed javelin, shoulder-launched anti-tank weapons

00:54:31.180 to Ukraine so they could defend themselves.

00:54:33.960 And for four years, it's interesting, the diminutive KGB colonel did nothing.

00:54:38.620 The idea that, oh, I'm going to kind of explain away what happened in Afghanistan.

00:54:42.780 Let's break Afghanistan down for a second.

00:54:44.940 Yes, there was a timetable for President Trump, but it was conditions-based.

00:54:50.020 If the Taliban hadn't met those conditions, there would have been no withdrawal. 0.70

00:54:54.900 I was part of those negotiations.

00:54:57.020 Let me tell you, there would have been no withdrawal without those conditions having been met.

00:55:01.160 Instead, because he wants a photo op for the anniversary of 9-11.

00:55:06.700 I mean, what a cynical—Biden wants an anniversary, 20th anniversary photo op that I won the war in Afghanistan.

00:55:15.740 So 13 of our servicemen are murdered by ISIS at Kabul airport.

00:55:21.380 Thousands, thousands of Afghans, also our interpreters, are left.

00:55:26.460 You see a plane take off with hundreds of people hanging on the fuselage.

00:55:30.840 And how do they leave?

00:55:32.260 Oh, we're going to get the military out, and then we'll somehow get out the civilians.

00:55:37.680 The rank dilettantism for the photo op that you don't even leave from Bagram,

00:55:44.560 which is a military airbase you can actually defend.

00:55:47.140 You go to KIA in Kabul, indefensible, and you have a complete circus—well, not a circus,

00:55:53.380 a tragedy of a surrender.

00:55:56.020 And then Putin goes, OK, lads, rev your engines.

00:55:59.360 We're going to invade Ukraine. 0.97

00:56:00.760 Then Hamas says, ooh, yeah, let's kill hundreds of Jews on Israeli soil.

00:56:08.360 That's on Biden.

00:56:10.280 And so let me put an argument—

00:56:12.180 I have a wide case for that.

00:56:13.000 What were the conditions based for that Afghanistan agreement, for the Doha agreement?

00:56:18.040 What were the conditions that you feel like the Taliban—

00:56:19.600 All kinds of.

00:56:19.840 What were some of the conditions that you feel like—

00:56:21.400 Control of Wardak province had to be stabilized.

00:56:23.800 We had to have Herat, have less Iranian influence.

00:56:27.060 I'm not going to go into any more details because they're classified, Stephen.

00:56:30.480 OK.

00:56:30.980 What you're saying is just not true.

00:56:33.180 That it wasn't conditions based?

00:56:35.240 One of the big reasons why that pull-out was so catastrophic is because the Afghanistan army wasn't—

00:56:42.500 And you can read all this.

00:56:43.180 There was a huge report that was done by the United States analyzing the failures for why that fell so fast.

00:56:47.680 And part of it was because the United States had negotiated away some of the land that was previously controlled by the Afghanistan government to the Taliban.

00:56:53.300 And we didn't even tell the Taliban about that.

00:56:54.880 So the Taliban would roll into cities and say, by the way, we agreed to this. 0.94

00:56:57.680 And the United States said we could have this.

00:56:59.640 And at some point, the Afghanistan army was like, screw this.

00:57:01.560 And they just started to end whole retreat from these areas.

00:57:04.580 Let me put a challenge to you, Seb.

00:57:07.200 You mentioned giving javelins to the Ukrainians, et cetera.

00:57:10.120 I mean, as you well know.

00:57:11.520 And by the way, it's interesting that even though we're all three from different kind of ways of seeing the world, actually on Ukraine, there's quite a lot of agreement in this room, ironically.

00:57:20.000 But there are a lot of people on your side who have bought this idea that this is Ukraine.

00:57:24.980 The reason the war in Ukraine happened is that Russia was provoked.

00:57:28.340 It was provoked by the expansion of NATO.

00:57:30.540 It was provoked by the giving of weaponry to Ukraine.

00:57:33.900 So what would you say to the people who say, well, yeah, Donald Trump gave stuff to the Ukrainians and that's why Russia invaded.

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00:58:10.360 I don't think we need to go down, you know, a kind of rabbit hole on this.

00:58:15.320 You know my stance.

00:58:16.500 You know, there's me, Dennis Prager and, you know, Claiborne and Mark Levin.

00:58:19.480 That's about, you know, the three conservatives who are strong on Ukraine.

00:58:22.860 We reject the Tuckerite isolationism, the Neo Buchananite isolationism.

00:58:28.380 But the whole, I mean, you're the expert.

00:58:30.080 You're the guy who translates Putin's speeches immediately when they're given.

00:58:34.280 This hoary canard that we encircled Russia or that U.S. presidents have provoked this great champion of Western, you know, Christendom called Vladimir Putin is asinine.

00:58:49.700 I mean, you know better than anyone for 22 years since he became premier, Vladimir Putin has been giving speeches on the fact that Ukraine, Poland, the Baltic states are all legitimate and need to be parts of Russia.

00:58:59.480 He's been planning this ever since he, you know, walked into the palace in Moscow.

00:59:03.420 Can I ask a personal question?

00:59:05.260 I'm curious.

00:59:06.060 Or not personal, personal politics.

00:59:07.880 My mom came from Cuba and my mom and dad were in the Air Force.

00:59:11.440 When I grew up, my parents hated China and Russia for understandable reasons.

00:59:16.300 My mom flew on the looking glass mission, looking for basically nuclear missiles, doomsday, end of the world type stuff.

00:59:21.480 And yeah, the fall of the Soviet Union, the Iron Curtain was a monumentous thing in the world.

00:59:25.020 And it sounds like you have similar feelings about Russia, which I'm happy to hear.

00:59:29.320 Does it bother you or does it give you pause that so many fans under Donald Trump, that so many of the people that support him seem to be so either skeptical about supporting Ukraine or fallen in support of Russia because they see them as a stronger, better country that champions Christian values better or doesn't submit to the woke mob better.

00:59:46.040 And that maybe it is their right to own Ukraine and the U.S. provoke that. 0.58

00:59:49.140 It bothers me that there are such voices on the putative conservative right.

00:59:54.340 I have come to the conclusion they're not numerous and they have nothing to do with my former boss.

01:00:00.280 Let me tell you a story about that.

01:00:01.880 We've heard for seven years still, Hillary was doing it a few days ago, that he loves Putin and Russia collusion, Russia collusion.

01:00:09.560 One story.

01:00:10.900 It's so amusing that there are people who are such experts on the Wagner group now, right after the fake coup.

01:00:16.500 We were experts on the Wagner group in the Trump administration.

01:00:20.600 We informed President Trump very early on that there are 300 Wagner group special forces guys running around the Middle East destabilizing the region.

01:00:28.620 We weren't neocons.

01:00:29.780 He's not an interventionist, but he's not an isolationist.

01:00:32.200 He's the perfect balance between the two.

01:00:34.120 And he said, what?

01:00:35.840 Putin's got hundreds of guys running around the Middle East.

01:00:39.200 That's not good.

01:00:40.460 I'm not going to invade the Middle East.

01:00:41.960 I'm not an interventionist, but he told Secretary Mattis, kill them.

01:00:46.760 Kill them now.

01:00:48.160 Four hours later, every single member of the Wagner group special forces deployment was red mist.

01:00:54.100 What did Vladimir Putin do?

01:00:55.780 Nothing.

01:00:56.320 He crapped his pants.

01:00:57.520 He didn't even hold a press conference because he was afraid of what President Trump would do next.

01:01:02.880 That's what President Trump understands is the use of force.

01:01:06.080 Not intervention, but when you cross a line, when you destabilize regions that are already destabilized enough.

01:01:11.960 In Syria, when we informed, and this is now declassified, that there was a second chemical weapons attack being prepared by the Assad regime, what did he do?

01:01:19.480 While Xi Jinping was having chocolate cake in Mar-a-Lago, he dropped 52 cruise missiles on that air base and turned it into a sheet of glass and whispered into Xi's ear,

01:01:28.540 I think you should know what I just did in Syria.

01:01:30.480 That was a message for Xi, for Putin, for Kim in North Korea, for the mullahs in Iran. 0.96

01:01:35.980 That's why for four years, no new wars.

01:01:38.200 I don't understand why you aren't happy that for four years we had no new wars under Trump.

01:01:45.340 And now you think you can blame, you can blame October the 7th on Donald Trump.

01:01:51.160 You can blame the invasion of Ukraine for a second time under a Democrat president on Donald Trump. 0.56

01:01:56.580 It's actually an insult to intellect.

01:01:59.080 For four years, the world was safe.

01:02:01.980 And now we have a world on fire.

01:02:03.980 But yeah, the guy who's in court today in Manhattan, it's his fault.

01:02:08.120 It's laughable.

01:02:10.460 Anything you want to say?

01:02:12.140 Both the situations are just completely and totally misrepresented.

01:02:14.800 The attack on the Syrian airfield, they had advanced warning of that attack.

01:02:17.240 There were no soldiers there.

01:02:18.100 They did chemical weapons.

01:02:19.020 Trump said, we're going to bomb your airport.

01:02:20.160 This is the one we're going to bomb.

01:02:20.960 We'll give you a little bit to get out.

01:02:22.340 And then we bombed it.

01:02:22.980 And that was it.

01:02:23.480 That was like business as usual.

01:02:24.740 The idea that was some huge, strong show of force is hilarious.

01:02:26.960 No chemical weapons were used again.

01:02:29.240 And the Wagner group, I mean, this operates as a paramilitary organization.

01:02:34.200 Of course, Russia is not going to claim direct responsibility, at least prior to the Ukrainian war, for any activities that they do.

01:02:40.020 That's fine.

01:02:40.600 But Russia is not going to claim Putin.

01:02:42.140 It's not going to claim personal responsibility over any of their...

01:02:44.040 He didn't even hold a press conference on 300 Russians being killed by the market.

01:02:45.920 Of course he's not.

01:02:46.780 Because it's the Wagner group.

01:02:48.100 That's the whole point.

01:02:48.860 You've always got an excuse.

01:02:50.000 Also, the people that were...

01:02:50.840 Talk to me about the wars.

01:02:52.020 The people that were eliminated...

01:02:53.340 No wars for four years.

01:02:54.180 The people that were eliminated...

01:02:55.160 Was that Obama?

01:02:55.940 Did Obama fix that?

01:02:56.080 The conditions for the wars were being created.

01:02:58.380 But the Wagner group that was...

01:02:59.720 That's okay.

01:02:59.820 The Wagner members that were destroyed in the Middle East wasn't Trump saying, there's people in the Middle East.

01:03:03.680 Let's get them.

01:03:04.560 It was them attacking a U.S. position in Syria and then getting destroyed by U.S. air support.

01:03:09.500 We didn't have any wars.

01:03:10.080 That's what happened.

01:03:11.340 Constantine, this is exactly what I feared would happen.

01:03:13.540 This is Alice in Wonderland through the looking glass.

01:03:19.600 Donald Trump is not responsible for anything good he did for four years.

01:03:24.080 And all the awful things that happened in the last three and a half, yeah, those are his culpability.

01:03:30.280 It's insanity.

01:03:31.740 It beggars critical thought.

01:03:33.360 I think that, like, just real quick, just on one thing, okay?

01:03:36.540 Because it's frustrating because, like, the analysis is childlike to defend Trump, right?

01:03:42.100 Well, there were no wars.

01:03:43.540 Wars don't just come out of nowhere.

01:03:45.680 There's a buildup for how these things happen.

01:03:47.320 So we've talked very specifically just on one event.

01:03:49.680 Also, keep in mind, when you say, like, I don't want to go into the weeds or get into a rabbit hole,

01:03:53.300 it feels like it's because you know you're wrong if you actually get into the details of things.

01:03:56.220 When you look at October 7th, what are things that Donald Trump did to signal how October 7th would have gone?

01:04:02.160 Well, when Iran attacked Saudi Arabia, he did nothing.

01:04:05.460 He showed strong support for Israel by moving the embassy to Jerusalem.

01:04:09.600 And we signed the Abraham Accords, which were remediated them, which were bilateral negotiations between Israel and other Arab countries that didn't involve the Palestinians whatsoever.

01:04:19.560 How do you not look at these three things and think, like, wow, I wonder if these are creating conditions that are relating to October 7th.

01:04:24.740 Like, these are the types of things that lead to that type of violence.

01:04:27.660 This is actually disgusting.

01:04:32.540 This is dishonorable.

01:04:34.760 It's a lot of adjectives.

01:04:36.060 We're the facts.

01:04:37.180 Now, stop it for a moment, okay?

01:04:38.860 Just stop it.

01:04:39.520 Because you've just blamed President Trump for October 7th.

01:04:42.880 I did not blame Trump for October 7th.

01:04:43.740 You said, no, stop it.

01:04:44.760 I'm going to respond now because this is your debating tactic.

01:04:48.140 It's not a tactic.

01:04:48.540 You're like an ADHD version of Ben Shapiro.

01:04:51.380 You throw out stuff out there, and then it's all garbage.

01:04:54.920 But beneath it is actual venomous, venomous illogic.

01:05:01.780 Is that what history is?

01:05:02.720 Venomous illogical?

01:05:04.420 Will you just shut up for two minutes?

01:05:05.720 Hold on a sec.

01:05:06.420 First of all, let me respond to him.

01:05:07.920 You haven't responded to a single point.

01:05:09.160 Guys, please stop right now.

01:05:10.780 First of all, Seb, you've got to stop insulting him.

01:05:12.880 Secondly, when he was talking, you were interrupting a lot.

01:05:15.140 I tried to stop you.

01:05:16.140 Now, you were talking, he's interrupting a lot.

01:05:17.640 So let him interrupt.

01:05:18.520 So what I'd like for both of you to do is just make your points in a slightly calmer,

01:05:22.400 more respectful way.

01:05:23.300 Go ahead.

01:05:23.840 All right.

01:05:24.040 So what he just did is he said the conditions for the largest slaughter of Jews since 1945

01:05:29.760 were created by President Trump.

01:05:35.480 That's horrific.

01:05:36.860 Do you have a response, sir?

01:05:40.020 Steven, chill for a second, both of you.

01:05:42.660 Seb, go ahead.

01:05:43.840 It's almost like a blood libel.

01:05:45.380 It's really, you know, the fact that this man, let me talk to you about who Donald Trump

01:05:49.980 is.

01:05:52.200 For 23 years, swamp politicians of left and right broke a promise to Israel.

01:06:01.340 Bill Clinton said, I'm going to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of the Jewish state,

01:06:06.980 and I'm going to move our embassy.

01:06:08.320 Because of that statute, every six months for 23 years, the incumbent president, Clinton,

01:06:16.060 Obama, and Bush, had to send a diplomatic missive to Jerusalem saying, sorry, I know

01:06:23.420 we promised this, but we're not doing it now.

01:06:25.660 When my former boss was chosen by 63 million Americans to be the chief executive, he said,

01:06:33.840 I'm doing this.

01:06:34.940 By the way, a man whose daughter is Jewish, whose grandchildren are Jewish, he held a meeting

01:06:42.020 of the National Security Council at principal's level, not the bureaucrats, but the actual cabinet

01:06:45.400 members, and he told them all, I'm moving the embassy, and I'm recognizing Jerusalem.

01:06:53.960 Only three members of his cabinet, shockingly, supported him.

01:06:58.620 And his secretary of defense, this man who had very carefully built his reputation as mad

01:07:05.920 dog, Mattis, was petrified and told the president, Mr. President, don't do this.

01:07:13.140 You will ignite World War III, and I don't have enough Marines to protect our embassies.

01:07:19.840 What was the president's response?

01:07:22.200 He said, I'm doing this for three reasons, Jim.

01:07:25.440 Number one, I promised the people of America who elected me during the campaign.

01:07:29.420 Number two, for 23 years, we've told the Israelis we're going to do this, and we haven't. 0.99

01:07:34.640 We have dishonored our oath.

01:07:36.800 And three, it's the right thing to do, Jim.

01:07:39.320 We moved the embassy, and no bombings, no slaughter of women at pop concerts in the desert,

01:07:49.340 no men being beheaded with blunt garden hose.

01:07:53.960 I watched the unedited video of what happened on October the 7th.

01:07:57.780 Strangely, none of that happened.

01:07:59.540 But when Joe Biden comes in, surrenders Afghanistan, and Ukraine is invaded, then we have suddenly

01:08:12.780 we have 1,300 Jews massacred.

01:08:16.460 No, it's not Donald Trump's fault that he recognized Jerusalem, moved our embassy.

01:08:22.740 It's because nobody fears the senile old man in the White House who talks to dead people

01:08:29.340 and thinks his wife is his sister.

01:08:32.180 That's why the world is on fire.

01:08:34.400 And don't you dare blame President Trump for what happened on October the 7th,

01:08:38.720 because that is despicable, and you know it.

01:08:42.320 Stephen, there's other stuff I want to ask you about, but I feel like you should have a

01:08:46.860 right to respond if you want to.

01:08:47.980 Yeah, there's no substantive analysis.

01:08:49.840 I mean, it's a bunch of virtue signaling.

01:08:51.100 It's a bunch of, oh, how dare you?

01:08:53.160 I saw the videos, blah, blah, blah.

01:08:55.100 But the reality was, is Donald Trump was an idiot when it came to foreign policy.

01:08:57.840 He didn't understand the intricacies of any of the situations that he nor his administration

01:09:01.420 were involved in.

01:09:02.520 And a lot of the stuff that he did during his presidency was kind of a buildup to the frustrations

01:09:08.460 that would obviously come out on October 7th and that horrible terrorist attack.

01:09:12.320 It's funny that you were even slightly prescient without realizing it by saying that, like,

01:09:15.620 well, if we move the embassy, there's got to be World War III.

01:09:18.240 Yeah, moving the embassy and showing that kind of support for Israel while they're continuing

01:09:22.860 to kick people out of neighborhoods in East Jerusalem, while the rest of the Arab world 0.98

01:09:27.600 is having this huge separation between what their people think, because a lot of Arabs

01:09:31.280 aren't really happy with Israel.

01:09:32.260 But the leadership is kind of like done with the conflict and they want to move on.

01:09:35.180 But it's continuing to antagonize those types of things.

01:09:38.520 It's the Abraham Accords. 0.99

01:09:39.820 Again, these completely cut out the Palestinians from any of the conversation whatsoever. 0.94

01:09:43.660 Donald Trump was a man who loved cheap victories.

01:09:46.800 The idea that I could get bilateral peace between Israel and Saudi Arabia, who, for all 0.96

01:09:50.740 intents and purposes, had already basically normalized, like, conversations with each other.

01:09:55.080 You don't think it was historic?

01:09:56.280 No.

01:09:56.600 The Abraham Accords? 0.98

01:09:57.300 No.

01:09:57.660 Absolutely not.

01:09:59.160 The impetus for the Abraham Accords was, if you look at what's going on in Palestine,

01:10:04.340 there's a big part of the West Bank called Area C that Israel is holding on to.

01:10:08.480 And Netanyahu was essentially signaling that he was about to start to formally annex parts of

01:10:12.240 these.

01:10:12.760 So they formally annexed the Golan Heights a while ago.

01:10:15.760 You've got East Jerusalem is more or less formally annexed now by Israel.

01:10:18.860 And now they were going to start to encroach into Area Cs and formally annex that, because

01:10:21.920 I think it's kind of the goal for Israel.

01:10:23.940 And I think it was Qatar, I think, that might have been the first ones to say this, but

01:10:27.900 like, we need to talk and do something, because if this happens, it's going to be catastrophic.

01:10:31.300 And then Kushner inserted himself into this process.

01:10:33.920 And then we got the Abraham Accords out of that to delay, essentially, the annexation of

01:10:37.080 the West Bank.

01:10:37.540 But again, it was a cheap win without solving any actual problems, because the big stickler

01:10:42.860 right now, at least in the Gulf states and in the Levant, is Palestine and Palestinians.

01:10:49.960 And Trump got us no closer to any of that.

01:10:52.120 Again, a cheap win, whether it's the Abraham Accords or the Doha talks with the Taliban, 0.89

01:10:57.220 in exchange for an actual real solution, which would have been lasting peace solved for Afghanistan

01:11:01.460 or an actual deal that involved the Palestinians.

01:11:03.920 Donald Trump wanted neither of those.

01:11:05.620 But man, we sure got a lot of really good stories and moving speeches about it.

01:11:08.860 Again, I want one sentence, just one sentence or one word.

01:11:12.280 I want the viewers and the listeners to note his choice of words, which is very telling.

01:11:17.040 This man labeled October the 7th the result of frustrations.

01:11:22.520 The murder of women and children and grandmothers is justified as the result of frustrations. 0.78

01:11:28.060 File that away.

01:11:28.860 You got your sentence in.

01:11:29.700 I didn't mean it in a dismissive way.

01:11:33.000 I'm just trying to make sure that you both have the right amount of time and being fair.

01:11:38.040 So the one question I think that we ought to be thinking about in terms of the geopolitics

01:11:42.840 side of things is Donald Trump could be reelected or Joe Biden could be reelected.

01:11:47.340 How do you think Joe Biden is going to improve the global situation?

01:11:52.160 I think we all accept that the world is on fire in terms of everything that's going on.

01:11:56.180 The conflict in Ukraine, the conflict in Israel and Gaza.

01:12:02.220 If Joe Biden is reelected, what gives you hope that he's going to resolve these things in the way that you talked about?

01:12:10.220 Having some kind of long-term solution to these very complicated, difficult issues.

01:12:14.920 How do you think he'll solve that?

01:12:17.180 When I think of the three hotbed spots right now, in my mind, I'm thinking China and Taiwan.

01:12:21.720 I'm thinking Ukraine and Russia. 0.59

01:12:23.000 And I'm thinking Israel and Palestine.

01:12:25.500 I think of the three hotbed foreign policy things right now.

01:12:27.820 When I look at Joe Biden's behavior for Ukraine, I feel like it was about as well as it could have been in that we were able to gather a wide amount of support across Europe.

01:12:40.400 We were able to energize our allies.

01:12:42.100 We were able to add to our NATO roster.

01:12:44.180 We were able to raise a lot of money and send stuff to Ukraine while at the same time drawing a very clear, like, listen, we're supporting them, but we're not going to have troops on the ground.

01:12:51.180 We're not going to do no-fly zones.

01:12:52.460 We're not going to do anything crazy.

01:12:53.420 Nothing that's going to set us on some road, you know, that we can't turn back from to go to World War III, but we're going to support them as much as we can, basically.

01:13:00.680 I wish the support would be a little bit stronger.

01:13:02.600 I understand the hesitation, though, in that they don't want Ukraine to be able to strike into Russia because there's concerns about escalatory stuff there.

01:13:08.460 I wish the support was a bit stronger, but I think for the most part, I think Biden's handling of the Ukraine-Russia situation was good.

01:13:12.820 May I pause you just there?

01:13:13.680 Because on that issue, my perspective is slightly different in that I understand the hesitation about offering more help.

01:13:21.180 And it's a lot of money and it doesn't enjoy as much domestic support as it did at the beginning of the conflict, et cetera.

01:13:26.960 But I can tell you what's happening on the ground now is even though these bills are very controversial in America and they're hard to pass, that $61 billion, it's not going to make any difference on the ground.

01:13:37.940 Ukraine is losing.

01:13:39.540 I'm sad to say this.

01:13:40.600 I was a very keen advocate of us helping them.

01:13:43.660 I don't know that I would agree with you that that strategy is going to be effective going forward.

01:13:49.520 But what I'm saying is if the current way of dealing with that situation continues, what will happen is Ukraine will keep losing hundreds of thousands of men, as Russia will. 0.81

01:13:58.960 Ukrainians will lose and lose territory and eventually they will get a worse deal than the one that they might have done a year ago when the Ukrainians made huge advantages thanks to the weaponry and the support that the United States provided.

01:14:10.160 So how do you think Joe Biden is likely to resolve that situation going forward?

01:14:15.840 Because I will put it to you, what's happening now is not working.

01:14:19.280 Okay, I haven't heard the same, but maybe we talk to different people or see different things.

01:14:23.280 I've got a lot of friends that go back and forth from the front lines and I've heard there were huge complaints relating to amount of shells available or what they thought the support would look like.

01:14:30.020 So, for instance, sometimes you can't advance, not because you don't have the weapons to advance, but once you advance, you don't think you have the supplies to maintain that advance.

01:14:35.540 Well, that is what's happened, right? They retook territory and now they've been sliding back.

01:14:40.120 Now, I'm not saying the artillery shells they're going to get now are going to make no difference, like in small situations, but on the big picture, it's not going to make any difference.

01:14:49.460 Well, I mean, we've got F-16s are supposed to be online, I think, by the end of this year or maybe even in the next few months.

01:14:55.580 I mean, I'll be honest. I mean, I'm not going to be delusional.

01:14:58.320 Ukraine winning, I think, is still probably like a less than 50% chance thing of happening.

01:15:01.960 And when I say win, I mean like at least take back Donetsk and Luhansk.

01:15:06.300 But I think there's an important question to be asked about, like, who is to tell Ukraine not to fight?

01:15:12.440 Like if we have the ability to supply them with weapons and if we want to stand by them for as long as they're willing to fight,

01:15:17.300 doesn't that send an important message to, say, China, where we would say we would support Taiwan

01:15:21.240 or we would support them in whatever capacity that we feel is responsible until we feel like the fight is completely over,

01:15:25.820 rather than like, well, we're a democracy, so if you can make the war last for a couple of years, it's probably going to be unpopular.

01:15:30.600 We're going to pull out, which is historically like a strength or a weakness that democracies kind of have.

01:15:34.640 So I think that showing support for Ukraine is important in two ways.

01:15:37.920 One is the moral way that if they want to fight, they should be enabled to.

01:15:41.540 It's funny, I hear foreign people express more concern over people dying in Ukraine in this war than I've ever heard Ukrainians express.

01:15:47.720 Like, I'll hear people all over the world be like, oh my God, these poor Ukrainians, they're dying.

01:15:50.820 We need to stop supporting them.

01:15:51.860 And then I hear Ukrainians say, we want to fight.

01:15:53.560 Russia is taking our territory. 0.70

01:15:54.920 My wife's Ukrainian.

01:15:55.780 My mother's Ukrainian.

01:15:56.520 I'm very concerned about Ukrainians dying because I have family and friends on the ground.

01:16:00.380 Now, at the same time, what I've always said from day one, as I think you both know, is Ukraine needs the support that we were giving them to get the best possible deal because they were always going to lose territory.

01:16:13.480 So I guess what I'm saying is, how is this conflict going to come to the right, the best possible end for the Ukrainians, which is what I care about, right, under Joe Biden?

01:16:23.960 How is he going to, in your opinion, resolve that?

01:16:26.700 Because throwing some artillery shells at them when they get desperate every now and again doesn't seem to me like the route to what we might want for them and also for the interests of the West.

01:16:37.200 Yeah, I mean, I think that the path forward is to supply them as much and as long as they're willing to fight.

01:16:42.820 And then once it seems like the fight is done or Ukrainians lose the will to fight or it's basically positioned itself into a war where no gains are being made or lost, then at that point you look for some kind of offer ever, some kind of peace deal.

01:16:55.560 So Ukrainians would obviously, Ukraine would negotiate with Russia with somebody mediating.

01:16:59.520 I don't even know who would mediate that.

01:17:00.540 But I mean, that's basically all you can do.

01:17:02.920 But I'm not sure.

01:17:03.980 I don't know significantly more, I guess, what the U.S. could do in that case.

01:17:07.580 Well, I guess what American people, I imagine, would want to know is, like, if we vote for Joe Biden again, how is he going to make this problem go away?

01:17:15.520 I guess that's how most people would just be thinking about it.

01:17:17.620 Well, I mean, unfortunately, it's not.

01:17:20.560 It's a global affair.

01:17:21.920 I'm going to ask him all these same questions, by the way.

01:17:23.180 No, yeah, I understand.

01:17:23.840 Yeah.

01:17:24.040 I don't think there's anything the U.S. president would just make it go away.

01:17:26.800 We could tell Ukraine, like, we'll stop fighting right now.

01:17:29.900 But I mean, what we could say to them is, look, we've come to the end of the road.

01:17:33.340 And there's clearly the domestic situation is such that we're not going to be able to give you much more.

01:17:38.120 It's time to start looking for the deal.

01:17:40.840 Do you think it's, is it the U.S.'s place to say that if Ukraine wants to continue to fight?

01:17:43.900 Well, the U.S.'s place is to decide whether the U.S. is going to provide weapons or not.

01:17:47.700 And then Ukrainians can make their own decisions.

01:17:49.160 But I'm saying, like, if Ukraine wants to fight, should we say, well, we don't want you to fight anymore?

01:17:53.240 We're going to pull that?

01:17:54.100 What I think we're misunderstanding each other on is this.

01:17:58.780 If the president of the United States was to say to the Ukrainians, we are not going to provide you with more weapons,

01:18:04.840 the Ukrainians would then have a choice to make.

01:18:07.220 They would not make the choice to keep fighting.

01:18:09.140 Yeah, of course.

01:18:09.660 But that's what I'm asking, I guess, is like, is it because we're essentially, we truly are making the choice for them regardless, right?

01:18:14.560 Like, if we continue to support them, we're at least enabling them to say yes or no.

01:18:18.200 But if we say, OK, well, we're kind of pulling out, then you guys are done fighting.

01:18:20.920 Like, is it the United States' place, if we have the opportunity and the means to help, should the United States say we're done?

01:18:27.600 Well, that's what I'm asking you.

01:18:29.140 So I guess-

01:18:29.720 I don't think we should.

01:18:30.260 And I don't think Biden would, yeah.

01:18:31.240 So what I'm hearing from you is if the United States votes for Joe Biden, he will continue to give them support at the level that he can muster in order that they can keep fighting or not, depending on what they want.

01:18:42.520 That would be my assumption, yeah.

01:18:43.940 I don't see that changing.

01:18:44.980 And on this side of things, is there anything more you want to say before I go to Seb?

01:18:48.020 Um, for, yeah, for, I mean, for Israel-Palestine, I think that is an incredibly touchy issue.

01:18:54.440 I don't think that Trump has the ability to navigate that.

01:18:56.840 No, no, focus on Biden.

01:18:57.600 What would Biden do to solve that?

01:18:59.120 Oh, for Biden, like, I mean, I think that Biden has done a good job at providing support for an ally, which I think is always important because the United States needs to be seen as supporting people they say they'll support, while also trying to rein in Israel a bit. 0.84

01:19:10.120 Um, so I think we were saying that, um, I don't know how true these conversations are, but as of recently, I think Biden was telling Israel that, like, if there's a huge Rafa raid, if a bunch of people start dying, like, we're going to start to condition some of this military aid.

01:19:22.740 Um, I know that initially when they announced their invasion on the 7th, I think that we encouraged them, like, you need to wait and chill for people to actually move out of northern Gaza before you guys start attacking. 0.87

01:19:32.460 Um, I know we've pressured them a lot to allow more humanitarian aid in, uh, that Eretz Crossing opening, I think was a really good thing.

01:19:38.960 The port, the humanitarian aid port that's being built by the United States, um, so the Navy Corps, the Engineering Corps, um, I think that was a really good idea.

01:19:46.120 I would hope to see more of that, but I also imagine that this conflict is probably going to be mostly done by election season.

01:19:51.660 Um, the Rafa invasion is happening, and then after that, I don't know what else there is to do in, uh, the Gaza Strip, but I feel like, uh, whatever, whatever that situation looks like afterwards, um, whether that's Israel occupied,

01:20:02.460 Gaza for some short period of time or whatever, I think it looks better under Biden, because I think Biden is more likely to tell Israel, like, hey, like, you're not going to start building settlements here, or, hey, you're not going to do this or that, because he's already sanctioned some people in the West Bank who are building outposts.

01:20:15.040 Um, I think that Biden would have a better handle on controlling Ukraine there, um, rather than Trump, who I feel would, would give a little bit more unconditional support.

01:20:22.660 Controlling Israel, I think. I don't know if I just said Ukraine. 0.84

01:20:24.160 Yeah, yeah, you meant Israel.

01:20:25.220 Yeah, okay.

01:20:25.500 Uh, Seb, if we, if, not we, if the United, if the people of the United States vote for President Trump in 2020,

01:20:32.460 2014, how is he, you said the world's on fire.

01:20:35.500 2014.

01:20:36.540 We're all getting everything wrong.

01:20:37.860 Let's start again.

01:20:38.920 If the United, uh, the people, can't do it.

01:20:42.080 If the people.

01:20:42.380 If he wins.

01:20:43.020 If the good guy wins.

01:20:44.980 I'm neutral in this debate, so.

01:20:46.840 If.

01:20:47.240 You just wrote a book on saving Western civilization.

01:20:49.960 I did.

01:20:50.460 I'm not sure.

01:20:51.520 Electing Donald Trump is the only way to do that, but, um, if the people of the United States elect President Trump again to be their leader, you said the world is on fire.

01:21:00.100 How is he going to extinguish those fires and bring peace to the world?

01:21:05.120 Well, at the risk of talking about what I did in the White House, because they're just stories, but, you know, I think they matter historically.

01:21:11.140 Come on.

01:21:11.300 Be the bigger man.

01:21:12.060 Come on.

01:21:12.680 I used, I got this question asked all the time when, when we were there saying, what's President Trump's national security stance?

01:21:18.220 What's his foreign policy stance?

01:21:19.380 What makes him different?

01:21:20.380 And I just spent two and a half years teaching the Marines at Quantico and I, I, I just stole their motto.

01:21:24.920 I said, well, under President Trump as commander in chief, no better friend, no worse enemy.

01:21:29.160 And it's exactly what we did.

01:21:31.020 Bad guys around the world were petrified.

01:21:34.180 Good guys felt safe, whether it's Israel, the UK, NATO nations, they understood American leadership was back.

01:21:41.040 With regards to specific conflicts, President Trump has said what he's going to do in the Ukraine.

01:21:45.760 He will end the fighting very rapidly by behind closed doors saying to Zelensky, look, I know you want your country back, but you have to sit down and negotiate.

01:21:58.220 It is, you know, it has to happen now and I'll help you.

01:22:00.800 And then he says to Vladimir Putin, the obverse of what you were positing, he says, you need to sit down now with Kiev or the aid we have given already will be minuscule to what I'm going to give Zelensky.

01:22:18.060 May I pause you there?

01:22:18.800 Yes.

01:22:19.040 Because this is an important thing to tease out.

01:22:21.740 That is one of the reasons that I, that to me seems like a credible way of solving that conflict.

01:22:26.740 I've said this from day one, whoever does that deal has to go in with a carrot and a stick.

01:22:33.000 How is Donald Trump going to go in there and make the claim that he will quadruple or 10x the aid that's already been given to Ukraine when half his own party basically supports Russia at this point?

01:22:44.580 I mean, that's an exaggeration.

01:22:45.720 That's a nice thing to say, but you know what I mean.

01:22:47.380 Yeah, I know what you mean, but that's not a public discussion.

01:22:50.400 I very specifically said behind closed doors.

01:22:52.360 Why would Putin believe that threat?

01:22:53.620 Because he's made a measure of this man for four years.

01:22:58.000 He understands that this isn't about bluff.

01:23:00.160 When you decide to use chemical weapons, we'll turn your chemical weapons base into a sheet of glass. 0.90

01:23:05.360 If you're planning to kill 600 US servicemen in the Middle East, we'll kill you with a drone as you're on your way to meet the puppet prime minister of Iraq. 0.74

01:23:15.580 That's what we did to Qasem Soleimani.

01:23:17.440 I know, but...

01:23:18.140 He knows the words mean something.

01:23:19.960 Yes, but I'm just saying if Putin is thinking about a logic, which I believe he is, then he will say, look, Donald Trump is saying to me he's going to throw the kitchen sink and give everything Ukraine that they possibly could get.

01:23:32.700 But at the same time, I see the internal divisions that we've talked about already.

01:23:37.460 How is Donald Trump going to sell this to his own party when half of the people involved are really against helping Ukraine at all?

01:23:46.460 And that seems to me like a not particularly credible threat, even if it's coming from Donald Trump.

01:23:51.440 But again, you're mixing open political communications with what is done behind closed doors.

01:24:00.260 He doesn't have to go to Congress and say, I'm about to tell Vlad this and you better back me up.

01:24:06.140 That's not how it works.

01:24:06.900 Yeah, let's just clarify this.

01:24:08.040 What I'm saying is, let's say that they are sitting behind closed doors.

01:24:11.340 Why would Vladimir Putin believe the threat if he knows that Donald Trump can't then go back and actually sell the 10x of support to his own people?

01:24:19.620 Because it's a risky bet to say, you know, he can't communicate this to his base and I'm not going to take him seriously.

01:24:31.280 That's a very dangerous.

01:24:32.320 I mean, you know, did you watch the Victory Day parade yesterday in Moscow?

01:24:36.500 With one tank.

01:24:37.040 Yes, I did.

01:24:37.800 Not just one tank.

01:24:39.460 It was one T-34.

01:24:41.540 Yeah.

01:24:41.840 Not even the T-80, right?

01:24:43.680 During the Cold War, it was Scud missiles.

01:24:45.920 It was ZS-3, 324s.

01:24:47.660 It was hundreds of tanks.

01:24:49.500 One tank from the 1930s.

01:24:52.320 I don't think he can risk hundreds of thousands of Russians on the off chance that, you know, he may not get that support from Congress.

01:25:03.500 I'm just going to bluff him out.

01:25:05.360 Let me ask you a different way.

01:25:06.300 Do you think it's credible to argue that Donald Trump could get the Republican Party to 10x support for Ukraine?

01:25:14.220 You think he can sell that?

01:25:15.360 You think he can...

01:25:15.900 Well, look, he wrote the art of the deal.

01:25:18.160 The party is really his.

01:25:20.880 With Lara, you know, co-chair of the RNC, with a lot of the rhinos actually resigning or not running again this year. 1.00

01:25:28.940 It's...

01:25:29.580 I'm worried.

01:25:31.060 But it's not the rhinos who are the problem on Ukraine.

01:25:33.000 No, no.

01:25:33.300 It's the isolationists.

01:25:34.120 But I don't think the isolationists can go up against President Trump and say, yeah, sorry, you won the election, you're the president, but we're going to, you know, we're not behind you.

01:25:44.660 You think he can take the party with him on that?

01:25:46.400 I think he can, but I think the more important thing is he can convince Putin behind closed doors that, dude, don't risk it.

01:25:55.580 It's not worth it.

01:25:57.240 And with regards to everything else, it's really quite amusing now that we're six months away from the election.

01:26:01.700 I'm doing more and more international media.

01:26:03.880 And when, you know, the news agency of Sweden or Poland or whatever comes and they say, so what's it going to be like if President Trump wins?

01:26:11.000 And I always say, were you alive when he was president?

01:26:14.180 It was only a few years ago.

01:26:15.860 It's going to be a redo of that.

01:26:18.360 So whether it's China policy, it's going to be a very forthright, robust economic trade war with China.

01:26:24.400 Whether it's the Mueller's, it's going to be, you know, the swinging sanctions regime we put in place that almost had the whole of the economy of the IRGC on its knees by the end of the Trump administration.

01:26:36.200 With regards to NATO, we'll be back to what the current Secretary General Stoltenberg, who is a former left-wing prime minister and minister of the environment said, is absolutely what it should be with increased spending and every member meeting its 2% of GDP target force goals.

01:26:54.000 So if you want to know what it's going to be like, it'll be like the Trump administration the first time around with the special edition of the deal with Vladimir Putin to scare him into negotiating.

01:27:07.200 And then with regards to Israel, Israel, it's pretty obvious.

01:27:10.000 This is the most philostemitic president since 1948 and the rebirth of Israel.

01:27:14.020 And I expect President Trump to give Israel everything they need.

01:27:18.780 And how will he look to settle that issue long term?

01:27:23.460 Because obviously that's an ongoing conflict.

01:27:26.500 It has been.

01:27:27.980 I feel like the world has come to a point where everyone is horrified by what they're seeing, irrespective of, you know, what their political position is.

01:27:38.400 The fact that that conflict is happening is horrific and it has reached horrific levels of mass killing, right?

01:27:45.760 Right.

01:27:46.340 But we also have people on, you know, U.S. campuses who are, you know, chanting from the river to the sea.

01:27:51.520 So they may be horrified, but they're actually on the wrong side of that conflict.

01:27:54.940 Look, there's no, with regards to the Middle East, we'll try and revivify the Abraham Accords. 0.92

01:28:00.100 But with regards to Gaza, we have to be very blunt here.

01:28:05.300 They have to kill every terrorist, every single terrorist responsible for October the 7th.

01:28:10.740 But if you look at every poll, there's been three significant polls taken since October the 7th of Gaza residents.

01:28:17.100 And between 72% and 78% of the residents support what happened October the 7th.

01:28:21.740 That is not something that is militarily soluble, right?

01:28:26.400 You have an environment, you have a population that supports genocidal murder of women and children.

01:28:33.660 I think the long-term solution, it's an un-American answer because it's not really a solution.

01:28:38.760 We tend to think we can solve everything.

01:28:40.740 It's a far more European one.

01:28:43.240 Israel, after October the 7th, has to kill everyone responsible for that attack.

01:28:48.700 And then they will be responsible for the security of Gaza for the foreseeable future. 0.89

01:28:57.000 Not Hamas, not anybody else. 0.95

01:28:59.420 Israel.

01:29:00.120 Israel.

01:29:00.460 Do we then not go back to square one where essentially Israel is living with a population who are being badly treated or feel that,

01:29:09.340 let's just use neutral language, who feel that they're being very badly treated, they're oppressed,

01:29:13.980 they're going to rise up against it and we're just going to have more terrorism.

01:29:16.440 And all of this horror is just going to continue.

01:29:20.320 I'm not saying I have a better answer, by the way.

01:29:22.380 But, you know, this was my thing for 20 years was counterterrorism policy.

01:29:26.800 Effective counterterrorism is about attacking two things.

01:29:29.100 It's like any enemy, really.

01:29:30.520 You have to attack their capability to hurt you and you have to undermine their will to hurt you.

01:29:35.240 The Israelis have been very good at the capability thing, right? 0.59

01:29:39.040 We take out their chief bomb makers.

01:29:41.360 We interdict their supply of arms from Iran and elsewhere.

01:29:45.680 The question is the will thing.

01:29:47.540 Will you create more terrorists?

01:29:49.060 There's no really good solution to that.

01:29:51.440 Why?

01:29:51.980 Because the Arab states of the region don't want any Gazans. 1.00

01:29:56.340 I mean, Egypt does not want any more Palestinians. 1.00

01:30:00.680 Jordan is full of Palestinian quote-unquote refugees. 0.92

01:30:04.040 If the Arab Muslim nations don't want that problem, Israel has to contain it. 1.00

01:30:10.500 It's not neat, but it's the best thing they can do, given the conditions that you have.

01:30:14.380 More than two-thirds of the population are pro-terrorism.

01:30:17.780 Well, gentlemen, we've had a great hour and a half.

01:30:20.740 We've got one segment that we still haven't covered, which is what's happening on U.S. college campuses.

01:30:25.200 I imagine you see that very differently.

01:30:26.920 That ties into the election because of Biden and Trump and how they've responded to that.

01:30:31.520 We're going to go to locals to talk about that and answer questions from you guys,

01:30:35.620 which I will be putting to both Stephen and Seb.

01:30:38.580 Head on over to locals right now for the rest of this debate.

01:30:41.020 The question I ask you, I want to ask you, is a question I can't ask you on YouTube,

01:30:47.720 which is about January the 6th and everything that happened around that.

01:30:51.780 Do you believe the 2020 election was stolen?

01:30:54.760 So to say that he went along with the peaceful transfer of power is just a lie.

01:30:59.320 Well, he did because he left the White House.

01:31:01.500 Yes, after he failed to steal the election.

01:31:04.440 Your full Great Outdoors Comedy Festival lineup is here.

01:31:08.100 On September 11th through 13th at Arendale Park.

01:31:11.580 Three nights, five shows, huge laughs.

01:31:14.720 September 11th through 13th.

01:31:16.400 Buy tickets now at greatoutdoorscomedyfestival.com.

TRIGGERnometry - May 19, 2024

Explosive Debate： Biden Vs. Trump with Destiny and Dr Sebastian Gorka

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