TRIGGERnometry - Graham Linehan： Arrested for Trans Tweets

00:00:00.000 Last time we spoke, I got a message from you saying,

00:00:04.780 I've just been arrested at Heathrow Airport.

00:00:06.660 Oh, yeah.

00:00:07.860 The entire thing was to get me into a cell for 10 hours.

00:00:12.400 You know, we always say in this that the punishment is the process.

00:00:16.300 I was brought to the hospital.

00:00:17.620 I realized, oh, they're scared I'm going to die in custody.

00:00:21.160 The first time the police bothered me was on the orders of a guy who's a convicted sex offender.

00:00:27.740 It's a decade of harassment.

00:00:30.000 It's like been an attack on our ability to recognize reality itself.

00:00:34.480 In some ways, we're at the most dangerous period.

00:00:36.820 You know, I think Charlie Kirk getting shot is an example of this, you know.

00:00:40.720 I don't think we're going to be able to get rid of it quite as easily.

00:00:43.820 If you look at the cast report, they're still trying to experiment with puberty blockers on kids.

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00:01:47.140 Graham Linnehan.

00:01:48.260 Hello.

00:01:48.780 Our favorite thought criminal.

00:01:50.600 Hello.

00:01:50.840 Fresh from all sorts of shenanigans.

00:01:53.800 Welcome back to Trigonometry.

00:01:55.440 Thank you.

00:01:56.000 Thanks for bringing me back.

00:01:57.140 Last time we spoke, I got a message from you saying I've just been arrested at Heathrow Airport.

00:02:01.660 Oh, yeah.

00:02:02.480 Yeah.

00:02:02.780 And it became this horrifically massive story about you basically did some tweets.

00:02:11.600 Yeah.

00:02:11.900 Three tweets.

00:02:14.400 I don't know whether I need to go through them all again, but they were all fairly standard angry tweets at the continuing insanity of the situation.

00:02:26.520 You know, men being able to enter women's spaces without being challenged.

00:02:31.600 So, it was just stuff about that, you know.

00:02:33.660 And unfortunately, we were going through a spate of malicious reporting by a guy named Lindsay Watson, who was an ex-policeman who was fired for sending something like 1,500 nasty messages to Harry Miller, calling him a pedophile and a Nazi and all this sort of stuff.

00:02:55.520 And, you know, he just started making full use of two things.

00:03:04.720 The insane non-crime hate incidents and the fact that anyone who makes a complaint is automatically a victim as far as the police are concerned.

00:03:13.720 And the second thing is, what was the second thing? 1.00

00:03:16.120 I was going to say, the second thing, oh, shit. 0.99

00:03:21.980 He took advantage of something else and it's just gone out of my head. 1.00

00:03:25.280 Oh, yes.

00:03:26.000 The second thing he took advantage of was just the police's terror of being on the wrong side of this, which they still have, even though they are on the wrong side of it.

00:03:36.980 They just don't realize it, you know.

00:03:39.840 And he took advantage of that, you know, suggested that he would bring a judicial review if they didn't answer his complaints.

00:03:46.780 And apparently, police are terrified of judicial reviews.

00:03:49.340 Well, thankfully, that investigation has now been stopped.

00:03:56.700 And, in fact, as a result of that, as a result of this incident, the police have said they're no longer going to investigate non-crime hate incidents.

00:04:05.100 Yes.

00:04:05.840 Whether that's good or not, I don't know.

00:04:07.420 Because investigating them isn't really the problem.

00:04:09.780 I don't think they ever investigated.

00:04:11.340 They just sat on your record.

00:04:12.680 You know, the problem is the recording of them.

00:04:18.280 So you may have one.

00:04:20.520 Both of you may have one.

00:04:21.700 You may not know until, you know, the podcasting doesn't work out and you're going to try to get a job somewhere.

00:04:27.720 Yeah.

00:04:28.340 You know, these are hidden deep in your records.

00:04:31.480 It's probably the reason that when I was invited to a fringe meeting at the Conservative Party conference, the police refused me accreditation, you know.

00:04:40.720 So we had to get the Conservatives to overrule them.

00:04:45.680 You know, it's impossible to know what is and isn't on your record, you know.

00:04:53.120 So come back to the incident with me because it made international headlines, rightly so, in my opinion.

00:04:58.360 Because you were arrested by five officers at Heathrow Airport.

00:05:03.220 Yeah.

00:05:03.580 What was that like?

00:05:04.260 Well, it was, I didn't get angry until they escorted, until they actually told me I was under arrest.

00:05:12.280 That's when I got really angry because it was just like, the first time the police bothered me was on the orders of a guy who's a convicted sex offender and serial fraudster.

00:05:23.760 And they called about eight years ago when I was still married and I still had something of a career.

00:05:33.280 And they terrified, this terrified my wife, got reported in The Guardian in a gleeful way that I'd been harassing trans people. 0.99

00:05:41.600 This fucking bloke was built like a brick shithouse as well. 0.99

00:05:44.760 So, and then it just continued, you know, I got visited by the police on the orders of a disgraced doctor who's now doing gender surgeries in Canada. 1.00

00:05:57.460 An actor called the police and got them to come to my door.

00:06:01.060 And this was terrifying to my wife, you know, because like the person who lived at our house before us was a little bit of a wronging.

00:06:09.340 And the police were often coming to the door looking for him.

00:06:11.460 So that used to scare my wife. 1.00

00:06:13.320 And then the next thing they're coming to the door and actually are looking for me.

00:06:16.900 So it was, you know, it's a decade of harassment, really, at the hands of not just the cops, but these trans activists who are pulling their strings.

00:06:28.980 And, yeah, we're suing them now.

00:06:31.440 And I'm hoping that we can take into account the previous harassment, not just this most recent example.

00:06:38.380 But, you know, yeah, it wasn't pleasant.

00:06:39.780 It was funny, though, you know, Britain, the UK has such a bad reputation now for freedom of speech.

00:06:48.140 The first thing that all these Arizonians saw when they landed in London was a comedian being arrested, you know, or a comedy writer being arrested.

00:06:58.120 So, sorry, people keep calling me a comedian and it's sticking.

00:07:02.060 Even in your head.

00:07:03.100 Yeah, so it was, you know, surreal and also, you know, the nature of it was very clear.

00:07:12.600 I think that the entire thing was to get me into a cell for 10 hours, to make me think about what a bad boy I've been.

00:07:22.580 I think that's what the aim of it was.

00:07:24.140 You know, we always say that in this, that the punishment is the process.

00:07:28.800 And, yeah, they just wanted to put me in sort of like a version of detention for adults, you know, so I could sit there and stew and not have my phone.

00:07:39.740 And, you know, it's a clever method, you know, because you do start getting a little bit itchy without anything to distract yourself.

00:07:47.740 There's a little library of books they've left behind in the cell.

00:07:52.000 You can choose one of them.

00:07:53.440 But I was too angry to read or do anything else.

00:07:55.820 I was just wandering around my cell trying to memorize everything so I could write about it, you know.

00:08:02.160 So, yeah, it was, it was.

00:08:04.780 And, you know, I was very, very angry.

00:08:08.080 But if I'd known what a story it would become, oh, my God, I would have bought them all a drink, you know.

00:08:13.960 Because, like, I've been, as you know, for years I've been trying to break out of the little, whatever bubble I was in, that meant I just could not, people could insult me on TV shows.

00:08:27.780 They're still doing this.

00:08:29.480 Question Time did it recently.

00:08:31.480 The Today program did it recently.

00:08:34.240 They never speak to me, you know.

00:08:36.360 They never actually address what problem they have with my stance.

00:08:41.860 They just assume it's terrible and keep insulting me.

00:08:47.720 So, finally, I've been able to break out of that bubble and appear on things like Rogan and your own interview was very good for me.

00:08:56.940 And it just means that, yeah, the, what's so strange about this debate is that the terms that trans activists use to fight it or to fight it all.

00:09:10.280 So, those terms are shared by all the media.

00:09:14.360 They're never contradicted.

00:09:15.700 They're never, the things that women are arguing for are very, very simple and very, no one could argue against them. 1.00

00:09:23.840 So, they have to be sort of reframed.

00:09:26.300 So, for instance, you know, it's not men, it's not trans women in women's toilets that women are worried about.

00:09:32.840 It's men in women's toilets. 1.00

00:09:34.280 And trans women muddies the issue, the word, because people don't really understand what it means.

00:09:39.000 A lot of people think that trans women means trans-identified women.

00:09:43.060 A lot of people think that trans man means trans-identified males.

00:09:46.620 And it's like, no, no, it's the opposite, which is another reason that people are frightened to address this issue,

00:09:52.120 because the language is kept so muddy and obscure and kind of obscurantism is a device they use,

00:10:01.040 that people aren't steady on their feet when they're talking about it.

00:10:05.060 But all you can do is just keep making the arguments and hope that people, I've noticed online, there's a lot more support.

00:10:12.440 People are much more confident.

00:10:14.060 People know what's happening now.

00:10:15.820 It was confusing at the start, because you would see a woman with beard, and you'd go,

00:10:19.800 oh, I guess there must be such a thing as trans people who are in the wrong body. 1.00

00:10:25.480 And that briefly crosses your mind.

00:10:27.380 But then you look into it, and you go, no, hang on a sec.

00:10:29.820 This is just a bearded lady at the fairgrounds. 1.00

00:10:32.360 It's just the effect of testosterone.

00:10:35.240 It's changing the way their body works, you know, their endocrine system.

00:10:41.200 So, like, all this stuff that seemed magical and probably does still seem magical to a lot of young people

00:10:49.600 who, you know, don't like the hand of cards they've been dealt in how they look or whatever.

00:10:55.340 But it's not magical at all.

00:10:58.020 It's just the effects of cross-sex hormones, you know.

00:11:01.980 The effects that they don't know about, the ones beyond the beard and all that stuff, is, you know,

00:11:06.500 things like four times higher heart attack chance for women, 0.90

00:11:11.420 higher chance of getting multiple sclerosis if you're a man, you know,

00:11:16.080 which is far worse on men than it is on women, you know.

00:11:19.680 It's a terrible disease, but it really, it's harder to deal with if you're male.

00:11:26.460 And no one's told these people, you know.

00:11:29.320 And they've all just got to find out about it in the future, you know.

00:11:33.100 And it's still shocking to me that it's been allowed to go on so long.

00:11:36.840 Well, you've been making these arguments for a long time.

00:11:38.940 And I just want to come back to you being arrested,

00:11:41.860 because I think it's hard to imagine for most people being arrested

00:11:46.160 for something you tweeted or for something you said online.

00:11:48.920 And you said you got angry, which I totally understand.

00:11:52.280 But were you also worried?

00:11:53.780 Did you think, I'm going to get done here, I'm going to go to prison?

00:11:56.920 Not for a second.

00:11:58.160 No.

00:11:58.360 It was, it was so immediately obvious that this was, like, 0.95

00:12:03.440 what if the tweets said, I hate them, misogynists and homophobes, right? 0.96

00:12:08.700 So I'm making it clear that I don't like them because they are misogynists 0.99

00:12:12.240 and they are anti-gay, you know. 0.98

00:12:14.860 So how is that a crime on any level, you know,

00:12:18.440 being against misogyny and homophobia?

00:12:20.720 So it was just absurd.

00:12:22.520 And then when they tried to impose the bail conditions

00:12:24.480 that I wasn't allowed to contact the victim when there was no victim,

00:12:27.760 the whole thing from the start was just comical.

00:12:31.500 The only thing that it kind of was frustrating about it,

00:12:37.120 and even this, they probably helped me in the end,

00:12:39.940 was getting the blood pressure noted as 200,

00:12:46.040 because that is apparently crazy high.

00:12:48.060 I had no idea.

00:12:49.540 And I think the reason that when they did release me,

00:12:51.680 it was quite quickly.

00:12:52.980 I was brought to the hospital and I got all my devices a few minutes,

00:12:57.180 you know, about an hour after that.

00:12:59.140 And I realized, oh, they're scared I'm going to die in custody.

00:13:03.820 Which would have been a brilliant deadline, you know.

00:13:07.760 So they let me go.

00:13:09.140 And yeah, apart from the inconvenience,

00:13:12.300 it was actually, all told, a good experience

00:13:17.040 because, you know, I got to see what the arrest procedure is like firsthand.

00:13:22.460 I got to get a kind of journalistic view of everything,

00:13:25.380 how it all works out.

00:13:27.060 It was added to that was this kind of surreality

00:13:30.360 of the policeman kind of trying to suppress smiles

00:13:34.320 because they were delighted that, you know,

00:13:37.860 the Father Ted Ryder was there, you know.

00:13:40.000 So it was...

00:13:41.660 Well, I was going to ask you about that

00:13:43.140 because one of the...

00:13:44.760 I don't know.

00:13:46.360 I don't know.

00:13:47.500 But I do not imagine

00:13:49.140 that the ordinary Bobby on the beat in Britain

00:13:52.340 or, in your case,

00:13:54.300 a police officer assigned to an airport,

00:13:56.680 which means they're armed,

00:13:57.740 so there's a higher level of responsibility.

00:13:59.900 I don't imagine you sign up for the arms response team

00:14:03.200 or an airport armed team

00:14:04.500 in order to arrest comedy writers for jokes, right?

00:14:07.740 Did you get the sense

00:14:09.580 that the people who arrested you

00:14:11.520 were enthusiastic about it?

00:14:14.140 Were they reluctant to do it?

00:14:16.040 You know, what was the...

00:14:17.240 They were cheerful.

00:14:18.160 They were oddly cheerful.

00:14:19.760 I think the whole kind of mood seemed to be,

00:14:24.960 well, here we all are.

00:14:26.400 Let's just go through it, you know.

00:14:27.800 We have to, so let's do it, you know.

00:14:30.320 Were they apologetic about doing it?

00:14:33.240 Somewhat in their attitude, you know.

00:14:36.280 So, like, but it was just...

00:14:38.120 I quickly realized that me being angry with them

00:14:41.240 or even saying, you know,

00:14:44.160 whatever arguments I have to defend myself

00:14:47.400 is meaningless because they're just doing their job.

00:14:51.840 You know, they've been told that I'm this or that

00:14:53.680 and they have to respond to it.

00:14:56.160 But, yeah, I didn't think they were enthusiastic about it.

00:14:58.580 I'd say all of those guys I met

00:15:00.260 would rather be on the street,

00:15:01.340 you know, jumping over car bonnet hoods

00:15:04.580 and nabbing bad guys, you know.

00:15:07.440 But I don't think any of them signed up

00:15:09.600 to arrest the father, right, or father Ted, you know.

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00:16:57.380 And Graham,

00:16:58.600 what do you think that arrest says

00:17:00.700 about the state of the UK

00:17:02.440 and free speech in particular?

00:17:04.680 Well, I really worry that the police

00:17:06.920 in the UK and Ireland

00:17:08.220 are moving from

00:17:09.440 a certain role they have in society

00:17:13.940 to a new role.

00:17:15.060 And the new role is basically

00:17:16.560 keeping the lid

00:17:19.640 on a boiling pot,

00:17:22.580 you know,

00:17:23.260 as politicians

00:17:24.960 just keep turning heat

00:17:26.020 up and up and up and up.

00:17:27.520 I just feel that

00:17:28.620 that police are entering into,

00:17:30.860 possibly entering into

00:17:32.060 a stage

00:17:32.860 where they're going to be used

00:17:34.080 to control the people

00:17:35.900 who are noticing

00:17:36.640 what politicians

00:17:38.540 don't want them to notice.

00:17:40.020 Because it's fascinating

00:17:41.320 you say that

00:17:42.140 because, look,

00:17:43.200 we have the conversation

00:17:44.160 all the time

00:17:44.720 about two-tier policing

00:17:45.940 and, you know,

00:17:47.100 essentially two-tier policing

00:17:48.460 means police treat

00:17:49.760 one group very differently

00:17:50.880 to the way that they treat

00:17:52.180 another group

00:17:52.700 even though the crimes

00:17:53.620 they commit may be the same.

00:17:55.160 But you look at the way

00:17:56.260 you're treated

00:17:57.080 and then you look at,

00:17:58.760 for instance,

00:17:59.340 Zahra Sultana saying to people

00:18:01.020 we've got to fight

00:18:01.600 the fascists in the streets

00:18:02.880 which to me

00:18:03.420 is an incitement to violence

00:18:04.720 or Ricky Jones

00:18:05.980 making a throat-slitting gesture.

00:18:08.580 You know,

00:18:08.920 you go,

00:18:10.380 these things are not the same.

00:18:12.360 You make three jokes

00:18:13.460 and you get met by police

00:18:15.380 in Heathrow Airport

00:18:16.980 and put in a police cell.

00:18:20.200 You go,

00:18:20.580 this is,

00:18:21.340 the way that we're dealing

00:18:22.620 with this

00:18:22.980 is completely biased.

00:18:24.240 I mean,

00:18:24.380 we have to be honest.

00:18:25.640 Sure, absolutely.

00:18:26.680 I mean, you know,

00:18:27.320 it is the,

00:18:29.880 what you might call

00:18:31.180 the dinner party ethics,

00:18:32.540 you know,

00:18:33.020 of the left.

00:18:34.000 You know,

00:18:34.380 everything that

00:18:35.040 the dinner parties

00:18:36.760 involving,

00:18:38.360 I don't know,

00:18:39.480 TV executives

00:18:40.280 and theatre producers

00:18:41.440 and so on,

00:18:42.300 you know,

00:18:42.520 there's been a sort

00:18:43.840 of agreement

00:18:44.440 not to talk

00:18:45.900 about certain things

00:18:47.160 and there's been,

00:18:49.120 and there's a kind

00:18:49.880 of widely held

00:18:51.760 agreement

00:18:52.080 amongst all these people

00:18:53.240 that they have

00:18:54.200 the correct opinions,

00:18:55.260 that their opinions

00:18:55.940 are the right opinions

00:18:56.960 so that when

00:18:58.020 Zahra Sultana comes out

00:18:59.140 and says something

00:18:59.640 like that

00:19:00.200 or says something

00:19:02.640 like from the river

00:19:03.340 to the sea

00:19:03.920 which is a genocidal

00:19:05.640 statement,

00:19:06.940 nothing happens,

00:19:09.060 you know,

00:19:09.600 but that's because,

00:19:10.940 you know,

00:19:12.440 they're on the

00:19:13.040 correct side of things,

00:19:14.100 the correct side of things.

00:19:15.720 And why is it

00:19:16.880 that, you know,

00:19:17.620 you've become this figure

00:19:18.680 because people go to me,

00:19:19.720 oh, Graham Lennon

00:19:20.460 is super controversial

00:19:21.840 and like,

00:19:24.040 I know you,

00:19:25.140 and I mean,

00:19:26.560 you can do the odd

00:19:27.580 edgy tweet

00:19:28.280 but nothing compared

00:19:29.580 to some people.

00:19:30.920 Yeah.

00:19:31.240 And you're in this position,

00:19:34.320 it's weird,

00:19:35.800 isn't it?

00:19:36.400 I think one thing

00:19:37.440 that's happened is,

00:19:39.220 and that happens,

00:19:40.080 is that we are

00:19:41.060 somehow blamed

00:19:41.960 for the things

00:19:45.040 our opponents do.

00:19:46.500 So when our opponents,

00:19:47.980 you know,

00:19:49.240 are smashing in windows

00:19:50.540 of the Philia conference 0.95

00:19:52.980 or abusing women

00:19:56.420 going in to it,

00:19:58.400 we're somehow seen

00:20:00.200 as being part of that,

00:20:01.780 even though...

00:20:03.160 Look what you made them do.

00:20:04.280 Maybe something along

00:20:05.880 those lines

00:20:06.540 or just the fact

00:20:08.080 that their inattention

00:20:09.620 means they don't really,

00:20:11.040 they don't look at it directly,

00:20:12.340 they don't really know

00:20:13.180 what's happening.

00:20:14.420 And so I remember once

00:20:15.700 a friend of mine

00:20:17.080 would just refuse

00:20:19.320 to talk to me about it

00:20:20.440 and they said something like,

00:20:22.520 oh,

00:20:22.800 that bloke

00:20:24.380 who's asking women 1.00

00:20:25.160 to wax his balls. 0.99

00:20:26.680 Remember this? 0.99

00:20:27.300 Yeah, Jessica Yaniv.

00:20:28.300 Jessica Yaniv.

00:20:29.020 Beautiful lady.

00:20:29.660 And yeah,

00:20:32.480 I mean,

00:20:32.700 for people who don't know,

00:20:33.820 Yaniv was a trans-identified bloke

00:20:36.360 who went up to

00:20:37.040 a bunch of different beauticians

00:20:39.300 wherever,

00:20:41.360 I can't remember where he lives.

00:20:42.440 Canada, wasn't it?

00:20:43.140 Yeah, Canada, yeah.

00:20:44.540 And asked them all 1.00

00:20:46.880 to wax his testicles 0.99

00:20:48.480 and then when they refused 1.00

00:20:49.980 because they only did women,

00:20:51.460 he sued them

00:20:52.400 and he took a lot

00:20:53.680 of these women's businesses away, 1.00

00:20:56.940 you know,

00:20:57.640 even though a lot of the cases

00:20:59.560 didn't work,

00:21:00.680 it didn't matter.

00:21:01.380 He still had that effect.

00:21:03.220 But I remember this friend of mine

00:21:05.000 who was a woman going, 1.00

00:21:05.920 like that about it.

00:21:07.960 And I wanted to say,

00:21:09.120 I'm not asking people 0.99

00:21:10.980 to wax my balls. 0.99

00:21:13.120 You know what I mean? 0.99

00:21:13.500 I'm trying to stop these people

00:21:15.200 from doing that,

00:21:15.980 you know?

00:21:16.880 And,

00:21:17.360 but I don't think those,

00:21:19.500 I think it's just even

00:21:20.500 addressing it is,

00:21:22.860 for a lot of people,

00:21:24.260 middle class people,

00:21:25.240 it's like touching a third rail.

00:21:26.820 And they know that

00:21:27.760 if they do touch that third rail,

00:21:29.220 they won't just lose

00:21:30.240 opportunities,

00:21:32.260 they'll lose entire social networks.

00:21:35.120 And this is,

00:21:35.780 this is more,

00:21:37.520 I think,

00:21:37.980 punishing to women 0.99

00:21:38.740 than it is to men.

00:21:39.880 But see,

00:21:40.200 this is what I find

00:21:40.900 very odd about the fact

00:21:42.140 that you did end up

00:21:43.120 being arrested in this way

00:21:44.500 because I think

00:21:46.600 the horse has bolted.

00:21:47.940 Yeah.

00:21:48.200 I think the horse bolted

00:21:49.720 when the cash report came out,

00:21:52.720 when West Streeting

00:21:54.000 in Britain

00:21:55.080 said we're not doing

00:21:56.480 puberty blockers

00:21:57.600 on the NHS,

00:21:58.740 when President Trump

00:22:00.040 was elected

00:22:00.520 in this country

00:22:01.280 in America

00:22:02.060 where we sit today,

00:22:03.420 you kind of go,

00:22:05.040 you lost.

00:22:06.420 Yeah, sure.

00:22:07.120 So the argument

00:22:08.760 on that issue,

00:22:10.160 you're making the arguments

00:22:11.300 that you've been making

00:22:11.900 for many years

00:22:12.480 and I'm sort of,

00:22:13.220 no offense to you personally,

00:22:14.680 a little bit bored

00:22:15.540 because I'm like,

00:22:16.160 we know.

00:22:17.420 Like everybody knows now.

00:22:18.820 It was always so obvious.

00:22:20.940 You know,

00:22:21.060 you were just,

00:22:21.580 you know,

00:22:22.720 telling people,

00:22:24.060 of course,

00:22:25.420 sport won't be fair

00:22:26.740 if men can play it.

00:22:28.320 And then we had a boxer

00:22:30.020 fight women 0.99

00:22:30.840 and he'd just go, 1.00

00:22:31.880 look at the fucking picture. 1.00

00:22:33.140 Anyway, 1.00

00:22:33.340 my point being,

00:22:34.220 like the horse is bolted.

00:22:36.580 So why they would do that

00:22:38.860 once the whole thing

00:22:40.420 is already done,

00:22:41.680 that's what doesn't

00:22:42.640 make any sense to me.

00:22:43.860 Well, the thing is

00:22:44.600 I would actually,

00:22:45.420 I'm a little bit more

00:22:46.240 pessimistic about it

00:22:47.220 because like,

00:22:47.840 if you look at the

00:22:48.960 Cass report,

00:22:49.720 they're still trying

00:22:50.800 to do experimental,

00:22:52.840 they're trying to experiment

00:22:53.740 with puberty blockers

00:22:55.100 on kids

00:22:56.060 for a period of time.

00:22:57.640 And I think Cass,

00:22:59.260 I'm not sure Cass

00:23:00.860 is as against that

00:23:01.920 as she should be,

00:23:02.840 you know.

00:23:03.160 Well, the boxer

00:23:04.660 who was at the Olympics,

00:23:06.000 not Iman Califf,

00:23:06.820 but the other one,

00:23:07.480 he's just recently

00:23:08.340 knocked out a woman

00:23:09.360 in the ring.

00:23:10.460 So these things

00:23:11.280 are still going on

00:23:12.220 and they still need

00:23:12.760 to be fought.

00:23:13.180 A Brazilian woman

00:23:13.980 who was,

00:23:16.660 you know,

00:23:16.920 I think she had

00:23:17.500 to seek asylum

00:23:18.440 for,

00:23:19.800 because she misgendered

00:23:21.580 someone.

00:23:22.800 She's just been,

00:23:24.240 you know,

00:23:24.600 found out that

00:23:25.240 that's not going to happen

00:23:26.240 and now another case

00:23:27.460 has been opened.

00:23:27.980 I'm not dismissing

00:23:29.020 any of that.

00:23:29.480 I'm not saying

00:23:30.140 the entire battle,

00:23:31.280 every single element

00:23:32.300 of every single issue

00:23:33.280 of this battle

00:23:34.420 has been won.

00:23:35.100 What I'm saying is,

00:23:36.420 saying that trans people,

00:23:38.980 saying that male people

00:23:41.120 should not be

00:23:41.740 in female bathrooms, 1.00

00:23:42.940 I don't think

00:23:44.220 it is any longer

00:23:45.640 a controversial statement.

00:23:47.560 No.

00:23:47.960 It was at one point

00:23:49.100 and it now no longer is.

00:23:50.520 And yeah,

00:23:50.860 that is exactly

00:23:51.600 what you were arrested for.

00:23:52.940 So what was that about?

00:23:54.440 As I say,

00:23:55.120 I just think that

00:23:55.900 it's not quite as dead

00:23:57.680 as you think it is.

00:23:58.620 It's not quite as...

00:23:59.380 You think they're still

00:24:00.000 trying to keep the lid on it?

00:24:01.040 Yeah, yeah.

00:24:01.700 I think that...

00:24:02.260 I mean,

00:24:03.200 one of the things

00:24:04.040 I've discovered

00:24:05.920 from fighting these...

00:24:08.620 fighting trans activists

00:24:09.760 is that they are... 0.99

00:24:11.040 They are endlessly vindictive.

00:24:13.840 And because a lot

00:24:15.100 of them are narcissists,

00:24:17.100 they simply won't stop

00:24:19.040 until they feel

00:24:20.040 they've destroyed you

00:24:20.980 adequately.

00:24:21.700 You know,

00:24:22.060 it's like a constant,

00:24:24.080 constant war of attrition.

00:24:26.100 So whenever you hurt them,

00:24:27.100 they have to hurt you

00:24:27.820 a million times harder back.

00:24:31.560 And, you know,

00:24:33.260 they won't stop.

00:24:34.740 In fact,

00:24:35.140 in some ways

00:24:36.000 we're at the most

00:24:36.520 dangerous period.

00:24:37.980 You know,

00:24:38.280 I think Charlie Kirk

00:24:39.320 getting shot

00:24:39.860 is an example of this.

00:24:41.120 You know,

00:24:42.040 they are losing,

00:24:44.560 I agree.

00:24:45.740 A lot of the things

00:24:46.640 that they made unsayable,

00:24:48.600 people are realizing,

00:24:49.520 oh, hang on a sec,

00:24:50.200 they're not unsayable at all.

00:24:51.320 These are just common sense.

00:24:53.360 And they don't like it,

00:24:54.640 you know.

00:24:54.960 But there are things,

00:24:56.920 there's good things

00:24:57.500 that are changing.

00:24:57.980 I see that Morgan Ogre,

00:25:00.280 or whatever his name is,

00:25:01.800 who's another Canadian

00:25:02.720 trans-identified man,

00:25:04.360 is debating Mia Hughes

00:25:06.780 who wrote the WPATH files.

00:25:09.240 So that would have been

00:25:10.700 unimaginable a few years ago.

00:25:12.460 He's still sending her

00:25:13.940 abuse online

00:25:15.120 before the interview

00:25:15.880 and calling her a bigot

00:25:16.880 and so on.

00:25:17.460 But at least it's happening.

00:25:20.060 So I don't know.

00:25:21.000 I think this is like

00:25:22.540 a very strong weed

00:25:24.620 that's been strangling

00:25:25.960 institutions

00:25:27.400 and,

00:25:28.000 you know,

00:25:31.280 industries

00:25:32.400 across the UK

00:25:33.560 for a decade.

00:25:34.620 I don't think it's going to be,

00:25:36.300 I don't think we're going to be able

00:25:37.380 to get rid of it

00:25:38.420 quite as easily.

00:25:40.080 You know,

00:25:40.760 it's just little things.

00:25:42.980 People don't even realize

00:25:43.800 they're doing them.

00:25:44.560 When the policeman

00:25:45.160 interviewed me

00:25:45.860 at my,

00:25:47.820 when I was arrested

00:25:48.560 at Heathrow,

00:25:49.040 I had that great pleasure

00:25:50.380 of,

00:25:50.820 he would say to me,

00:25:51.860 you know,

00:25:54.040 he'd ask me a question

00:25:54.980 about trans people

00:25:55.920 and I'd say,

00:25:56.760 sorry,

00:25:57.320 what is a trans person?

00:25:58.840 And he said,

00:26:00.220 it's someone

00:26:01.280 who's gender.

00:26:03.440 And I said,

00:26:03.840 sorry,

00:26:04.100 what is gender?

00:26:05.100 You know?

00:26:06.120 And he was in knots

00:26:07.760 immediately

00:26:08.220 and he actually said

00:26:09.200 gender assigned at birth,

00:26:10.740 which is pure activist language.

00:26:12.560 You know?

00:26:13.620 And I'm sure

00:26:14.620 that a lot of people

00:26:15.340 say that

00:26:15.800 without even realizing

00:26:16.700 they're saying it.

00:26:17.700 You know?

00:26:18.000 Yeah.

00:26:18.160 So it's,

00:26:20.720 it's not,

00:26:21.380 it's not just,

00:26:22.260 it's not been

00:26:22.860 just an attack

00:26:24.340 on the institutions.

00:26:25.960 It's,

00:26:26.400 it's been an attack

00:26:27.540 on our ability

00:26:29.140 to see a glass of water

00:26:31.040 and say,

00:26:31.360 this is a glass of water.

00:26:32.780 You know?

00:26:33.440 It's like been an attack

00:26:34.800 on our ability

00:26:35.500 to recognize reality itself.

00:26:38.740 Uh,

00:26:39.180 and,

00:26:39.500 and that was another reason

00:26:40.380 why I was,

00:26:40.840 why I was so,

00:26:41.980 uh,

00:26:43.420 you know,

00:26:44.260 why I felt

00:26:45.460 so strongly about it

00:26:46.620 because as a writer,

00:26:47.440 I'd need things

00:26:48.360 to be,

00:26:48.900 uh,

00:26:49.960 stable

00:26:50.460 so I can write

00:26:51.320 about them.

00:26:52.160 Uh,

00:26:52.440 especially comedy,

00:26:53.300 you know,

00:26:53.520 because you need

00:26:54.100 the stability

00:26:54.820 so you can upset it

00:26:55.980 and,

00:26:56.760 and create instability.

00:26:58.560 But if you start off

00:26:59.780 with an insta,

00:27:00.480 insta,

00:27:00.500 insta,

00:27:01.720 insta,

00:27:02.420 insta world,

00:27:03.500 then how do you

00:27:04.660 make fun of that?

00:27:05.600 You know?

00:27:06.300 I often say that the,

00:27:07.300 the,

00:27:07.520 the,

00:27:08.220 you could not do

00:27:09.180 a comedy about this

00:27:10.200 because,

00:27:10.900 because the only,

00:27:12.060 you could possibly

00:27:13.820 do a comedy about this

00:27:14.880 if you only use

00:27:15.980 true stories

00:27:16.700 and you assured people

00:27:18.520 that these are actually

00:27:19.400 true stories

00:27:20.160 because,

00:27:20.940 because the,

00:27:22.560 the things we've been fighting,

00:27:24.560 the things we've seen

00:27:25.340 are so,

00:27:25.840 you know,

00:27:28.600 completely,

00:27:30.100 um,

00:27:30.520 absurd

00:27:31.180 that

00:27:32.440 if,

00:27:33.540 if I,

00:27:34.000 if I just was genuinely

00:27:35.500 trying to record it

00:27:37.320 in a,

00:27:37.680 in a fictional,

00:27:38.260 uh,

00:27:39.420 story,

00:27:39.920 uh,

00:27:40.540 no one would buy it.

00:27:41.720 No one would buy it.

00:27:42.640 And it's had a very

00:27:44.080 real world impact

00:27:45.040 on your life.

00:27:45.620 Like,

00:27:45.860 for instance,

00:27:47.060 I love the theatre,

00:27:48.120 I love the arts,

00:27:48.880 the arts has been

00:27:49.580 completely corrupted

00:27:51.080 by this.

00:27:52.280 I was talking to an actress

00:27:53.440 the other day

00:27:54.000 and she said that

00:27:54.700 if she misgenders someone

00:27:56.140 three times

00:27:57.660 in the rehearsal period

00:27:59.920 or when she's

00:28:01.260 in the play

00:28:02.080 and it could be

00:28:02.620 an accidental thing,

00:28:03.700 simply getting

00:28:04.160 someone's pronouns wrong,

00:28:05.440 you're automatically

00:28:06.240 fired and reported

00:28:07.180 to your agent.

00:28:08.220 What?

00:28:09.040 That's insane.

00:28:10.240 I mean,

00:28:10.480 this is in the West End

00:28:11.440 in London.

00:28:12.020 This is in literally

00:28:13.480 the place,

00:28:14.420 the best place

00:28:15.020 in the world

00:28:15.400 for theatre.

00:28:16.240 Yeah.

00:28:16.440 And then it makes me

00:28:17.360 think about

00:28:17.940 the fact that you

00:28:19.280 created Father Ted

00:28:20.740 the musical.

00:28:21.720 Yeah.

00:28:22.000 Which is,

00:28:22.820 to be honest with you,

00:28:23.920 is a license

00:28:24.520 to print money

00:28:25.220 for everyone involved.

00:28:26.580 It's got a huge fan base

00:28:27.840 I wanted to go and see it.

00:28:29.340 Yeah.

00:28:29.860 And then it's,

00:28:31.300 it's,

00:28:31.820 will it ever see

00:28:32.620 the light of day?

00:28:33.800 I don't know.

00:28:34.700 I mean,

00:28:35.220 um,

00:28:35.900 you know,

00:28:36.500 Dave,

00:28:37.100 Dave,

00:28:37.880 by,

00:28:38.280 by treating me

00:28:38.980 the way they did,

00:28:39.920 they've kind of burnt

00:28:41.400 a lot of bridges

00:28:42.000 with me.

00:28:42.900 So that's part

00:28:44.000 of the problem.

00:28:44.800 By,

00:28:45.200 by,

00:28:45.660 you said,

00:28:46.600 treating you the way

00:28:47.220 they did.

00:28:47.680 Let's deal in specifics,

00:28:48.900 Graham,

00:28:49.020 so people can understand.

00:28:49.960 Well,

00:28:50.440 you know,

00:28:50.820 I,

00:28:51.140 I,

00:28:51.240 I,

00:28:51.580 I basically brought

00:28:53.060 the musical to them.

00:28:54.120 I developed it,

00:28:55.080 wrote it with Arthur

00:28:56.360 and Neil Hannon

00:28:57.380 and,

00:28:57.920 and,

00:28:58.260 you know,

00:28:59.460 put three years

00:29:00.420 of work into it,

00:29:01.560 thought about it

00:29:02.220 very carefully,

00:29:03.760 tried to make it,

00:29:06.540 wrote it in such a way

00:29:07.820 that it gave a,

00:29:09.040 a sort of ending

00:29:10.000 to Ted's story

00:29:11.160 that I felt was

00:29:12.160 worthy of Dermot

00:29:13.600 and was like

00:29:14.060 a little salute to Dermot

00:29:15.480 and a thank you to Dermot,

00:29:16.540 but still creating

00:29:18.560 a new kind of

00:29:19.760 story that

00:29:21.660 amateur groups

00:29:22.680 could perform.

00:29:23.760 That was one of my main things.

00:29:24.980 I wanted amateur,

00:29:25.700 I wanted to create

00:29:27.040 a new Ted and Dougal

00:29:28.180 so that amateur theater groups

00:29:30.220 could look at it

00:29:30.780 and go,

00:29:31.160 oh yeah,

00:29:31.780 so you just,

00:29:33.240 it doesn't have to be

00:29:33.920 an impression.

00:29:35.000 It can be just,

00:29:36.000 you know,

00:29:36.220 you're trying to sum up

00:29:37.140 the figure of a,

00:29:38.620 a guy who doesn't,

00:29:39.760 who's not as bright

00:29:40.400 as he thinks he is

00:29:41.200 and a guy who's,

00:29:41.940 who's incredibly, 1.00

00:29:42.920 incredibly dumb. 1.00

00:29:45.300 You know, 1.00

00:29:45.980 and I don't know,

00:29:48.200 we just,

00:29:48.640 we just,

00:29:50.000 it was ready.

00:29:50.800 It was,

00:29:51.080 it was,

00:29:51.420 the songs were written.

00:29:52.540 It was ready.

00:29:53.320 It was on its feet.

00:29:54.680 They tried to,

00:29:56.080 I should have known

00:29:57.120 something was up

00:29:57.800 when they tried to make,

00:29:59.100 like,

00:29:59.300 you know,

00:29:59.480 the character in the show

00:30:00.400 who goes, 0.75

00:30:01.040 I hear you're a racist now, 0.99

00:30:02.400 father. 0.95

00:30:02.720 Yeah.

00:30:03.460 Well,

00:30:03.900 in the,

00:30:04.300 in the last dry run

00:30:05.460 we had,

00:30:06.140 a black guy said that

00:30:07.180 and I remember thinking, 1.00

00:30:10.300 oh shit, 1.00

00:30:11.440 are they going to try 1.00

00:30:12.080 and make,

00:30:12.920 are they going to try

00:30:13.680 and make this

00:30:14.040 a multiracial cast

00:30:14.960 on Craggy Island?

00:30:15.700 Which,

00:30:16.100 which wouldn't have

00:30:16.700 made sense.

00:30:17.380 Yeah.

00:30:17.700 Like there's a whole episode

00:30:18.540 about how

00:30:19.260 the Chinatown

00:30:20.500 on Craggy Island 0.98

00:30:21.200 is a ridiculous concept, 0.97

00:30:22.560 you know, 0.97

00:30:22.800 so it,

00:30:23.260 it,

00:30:23.480 it wouldn't have

00:30:24.260 made any sense

00:30:24.840 and,

00:30:25.420 and God love him,

00:30:26.220 the actor was just

00:30:26.940 as embarrassed as we were,

00:30:28.300 you know,

00:30:28.780 but I could sense that

00:30:30.160 they were already

00:30:31.880 beginning to think,

00:30:32.960 how can we

00:30:33.680 make this

00:30:34.300 a multiracial cast?

00:30:35.420 They did it

00:30:35.900 to Tom Stoppard

00:30:36.700 as well

00:30:37.140 and Sonja Friedman

00:30:39.100 actually said to me

00:30:40.340 at one point,

00:30:42.100 he doesn't,

00:30:42.600 he doesn't think

00:30:43.520 there should be

00:30:44.240 a black cast 0.99

00:30:46.280 in the ghetto, 0.88

00:30:47.140 you know,

00:30:47.820 this is like

00:30:48.440 the Warsaw ghetto,

00:30:49.360 I think his last one

00:30:50.060 was made up.

00:30:50.800 and he's,

00:30:52.540 and she said,

00:30:53.420 but,

00:30:53.780 and she said,

00:30:56.040 but he's having them.

00:31:01.340 You know,

00:31:02.540 and it's like,

00:31:03.400 well,

00:31:03.880 and it's just, 0.98

00:31:06.620 This is ridiculous. 0.97

00:31:07.720 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0.98

00:31:08.460 But this is the world

00:31:09.220 they live in.

00:31:09.880 It is entirely

00:31:11.000 about virtue signaling.

00:31:12.380 It's no longer

00:31:13.260 about,

00:31:13.700 about the art

00:31:14.460 or the,

00:31:15.260 or the truth,

00:31:16.120 or the truth,

00:31:16.880 or the audience,

00:31:18.140 you know,

00:31:18.500 it's definitely not

00:31:19.000 about the audience.

00:31:19.780 And as a result,

00:31:20.960 the theater is dying

00:31:21.760 in,

00:31:22.260 in,

00:31:22.880 in,

00:31:23.800 in London,

00:31:24.900 you know,

00:31:25.380 and,

00:31:25.640 and the Father Ted musical

00:31:27.180 would have given it

00:31:27.780 a huge shot in the arm.

00:31:29.060 But unfortunately,

00:31:29.760 we're now taking orders

00:31:30.880 from the ice cream sellers

00:31:32.120 and the,

00:31:33.500 and the staff

00:31:34.640 who all think

00:31:35.620 they're non-binary,

00:31:36.680 you know,

00:31:37.720 and that's what did

00:31:39.400 for it in the end,

00:31:40.260 you know.

00:31:40.760 So when you say

00:31:41.720 what did for it,

00:31:42.500 what actually happened?

00:31:43.700 So from what I can hear,

00:31:45.820 it was,

00:31:46.100 the run through was great.

00:31:47.280 The songs were written.

00:31:48.680 The play was ready

00:31:49.520 to go.

00:31:50.120 Everything was there.

00:31:51.040 You were in final rehearsals.

00:31:52.800 You had your black actor,

00:31:53.960 so you had your diversity

00:31:54.980 on your rural Irish island.

00:31:57.220 Everything,

00:31:57.680 every box was ticked.

00:31:58.740 Yeah.

00:31:59.440 What happened?

00:32:00.640 Me?

00:32:01.040 They just didn't want,

00:32:01.980 they,

00:32:02.160 they wanted me gone.

00:32:03.440 I,

00:32:03.680 I got a,

00:32:04.160 I got a meeting.

00:32:06.040 I wrote a letter to them.

00:32:07.220 Oh,

00:32:07.480 they offered you

00:32:08.100 to buy you out,

00:32:09.060 didn't they?

00:32:09.300 Yes.

00:32:09.820 Yes.

00:32:10.080 They offered me 200 grand

00:32:11.160 to walk away.

00:32:12.740 And I,

00:32:13.900 I was considering it at first

00:32:15.960 and even started writing letters

00:32:18.460 or an explanation

00:32:20.660 as to why I was backing away

00:32:22.260 and so on,

00:32:22.880 you know.

00:32:23.440 But it was all con.

00:32:24.640 Jimmy was just

00:32:25.240 trying to con them,

00:32:26.700 you know,

00:32:26.980 because I would have still

00:32:28.220 received royalties

00:32:30.500 and,

00:32:31.040 you know,

00:32:32.060 he was just trying

00:32:34.300 to trick everybody,

00:32:34.980 really.

00:32:36.180 But I said,

00:32:37.540 okay,

00:32:37.900 well,

00:32:38.200 you know,

00:32:38.400 I just want to come along

00:32:39.360 to the occasional rehearsal

00:32:41.540 to just see that it's going

00:32:43.300 the right way,

00:32:44.160 that it's,

00:32:44.640 that it's,

00:32:46.120 it's not taking on any jokes

00:32:48.460 that don't work

00:32:49.100 or too cheap

00:32:49.840 or something like this.

00:32:50.680 And they said,

00:32:51.200 no,

00:32:51.400 we want a clean break,

00:32:52.980 you know.

00:32:53.540 And this was after

00:32:54.440 I'd almost single-handedly

00:32:55.880 done this thing,

00:32:57.020 you know.

00:32:59.700 So,

00:33:00.280 you know,

00:33:00.720 I just,

00:33:03.200 I think that that was

00:33:04.420 the final straw

00:33:05.180 because I,

00:33:05.660 I don't want to be arrogant,

00:33:07.340 but like,

00:33:07.940 but I do know

00:33:09.100 that if I hadn't

00:33:10.340 been there,

00:33:11.220 then,

00:33:11.920 you know,

00:33:12.200 it wouldn't be as good,

00:33:13.240 you know.

00:33:13.780 I've always,

00:33:14.400 I've always been

00:33:15.280 like a micromanager

00:33:16.940 on,

00:33:18.060 on details,

00:33:19.020 especially when it comes

00:33:19.640 to jokes.

00:33:20.460 You know what jokes are like,

00:33:21.660 they have to be

00:33:22.400 a certain way.

00:33:23.380 They're certain,

00:33:24.920 if you've been doing

00:33:26.100 stand-up,

00:33:27.240 you know that you have

00:33:28.140 to say the words

00:33:28.740 in this order

00:33:29.360 because if you get the order

00:33:30.360 even slightly wrong,

00:33:31.720 you screw it up. 0.52

00:33:32.880 So I didn't trust anyone

00:33:34.080 there

00:33:34.740 to know this,

00:33:36.180 you know,

00:33:36.400 because I've seen

00:33:37.700 the rest of Hatrix

00:33:38.640 programming.

00:33:40.220 So,

00:33:40.480 you know,

00:33:40.820 I just didn't want

00:33:43.100 to go,

00:33:43.360 I didn't want to,

00:33:44.300 I knew that if I didn't

00:33:45.840 have anything to do

00:33:46.540 with it,

00:33:46.960 then it wouldn't be as good

00:33:47.860 and I wouldn't be proud

00:33:49.100 of it.

00:33:49.460 And I,

00:33:50.080 one of the things

00:33:50.780 I'm dead certain of

00:33:54.160 is that if I'm involved

00:33:55.560 in something,

00:33:56.000 it's going to be good,

00:33:57.020 you know.

00:33:57.560 Well,

00:33:58.000 your track record

00:33:58.720 better say,

00:33:59.260 and this is the other thing,

00:34:00.220 like,

00:34:00.780 you know,

00:34:00.960 you're not going to say

00:34:01.620 this yourself

00:34:02.160 because you're

00:34:02.640 a modest guy,

00:34:03.440 but you're a generational

00:34:04.820 talent in,

00:34:05.920 in,

00:34:06.740 I,

00:34:06.960 I always have to find

00:34:08.500 a weird way of saying it

00:34:09.460 because you're Irish.

00:34:10.300 I always say,

00:34:11.100 you know,

00:34:11.540 British,

00:34:12.080 you know what I mean?

00:34:13.280 Yeah.

00:34:13.640 But,

00:34:14.200 you know,

00:34:14.640 the things you've created

00:34:15.780 are things that have

00:34:16.640 entertained literally

00:34:18.160 millions and millions

00:34:19.600 millions of people

00:34:20.260 and you,

00:34:22.980 you've had your opinions.

00:34:24.460 You,

00:34:24.640 you probably had them

00:34:25.540 earlier than other people

00:34:26.540 and therefore took more

00:34:27.440 of the arrows

00:34:27.960 and more of the brunt.

00:34:29.580 But,

00:34:30.380 it,

00:34:30.700 it's just a travesty.

00:34:32.420 It's an absolute travesty.

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00:36:07.240 Well, you know,

00:36:08.180 as I say,

00:36:08.980 I mean,

00:36:09.320 it was a roundabout way,

00:36:11.140 but it got me here

00:36:12.280 eventually.

00:36:13.420 And it's been nice

00:36:14.940 being here,

00:36:16.900 knowing that I won't

00:36:17.600 get arrested any second

00:36:18.720 has meant that

00:36:20.580 I can really relax

00:36:21.700 and start thinking

00:36:23.180 about writing again

00:36:25.220 because I'm always

00:36:26.540 learning,

00:36:27.360 I'm always learning

00:36:28.580 on the job.

00:36:30.260 And, you know,

00:36:30.920 Rob just gave me

00:36:32.660 the opportunity

00:36:33.180 to write this film idea

00:36:34.320 which I really like.

00:36:35.100 Rob Schneider.

00:36:35.820 Rob Schneider, yeah.

00:36:36.680 Former guest of ours.

00:36:37.440 Yes.

00:36:38.360 And, you know,

00:36:40.380 I just rattled it out

00:36:41.440 and writing it

00:36:43.640 kind of taught me

00:36:44.720 how to do it,

00:36:45.920 if that makes sense.

00:36:47.360 I'm not saying,

00:36:48.580 you know,

00:36:48.940 it's brilliant

00:36:49.540 or that I immediately

00:36:50.580 know how to do it,

00:36:51.520 but it was a,

00:36:53.240 it was just a nice thing

00:36:54.600 at this stage of my life

00:36:55.680 to be able to sit down

00:36:56.480 and write something

00:36:57.300 in a different format

00:36:58.600 that I'm not used to

00:36:59.740 and come away thinking,

00:37:01.380 well, yeah,

00:37:01.700 that wasn't bad,

00:37:02.680 you know,

00:37:02.940 we kind of

00:37:03.340 might be able

00:37:03.880 to do this,

00:37:04.520 you know,

00:37:04.820 so,

00:37:05.740 and also,

00:37:07.380 and, you know,

00:37:07.840 I've often said this

00:37:09.620 and it sounds like

00:37:10.380 I'm just trying

00:37:10.900 to have commiseration

00:37:14.380 reward.

00:37:15.880 What's that word?

00:37:16.660 Condole?

00:37:17.340 Condolences?

00:37:18.080 Something like that.

00:37:18.860 Anyway,

00:37:19.720 but like,

00:37:20.400 like,

00:37:21.260 I've experienced

00:37:23.620 so much more

00:37:24.640 of life now.

00:37:25.860 Like,

00:37:26.140 I used to be

00:37:26.700 very,

00:37:27.120 very siloed

00:37:29.120 in the comedy world.

00:37:31.900 You know,

00:37:32.100 I used to imagine

00:37:33.600 if you looked

00:37:35.180 over where I hung out

00:37:37.240 in Soho

00:37:37.880 and drew a map

00:37:39.160 of where I went,

00:37:40.760 it would just be like

00:37:41.600 a big black line

00:37:43.180 after a while

00:37:43.840 of the same places.

00:37:45.180 I was very much

00:37:46.180 on a kind of,

00:37:46.860 um,

00:37:47.920 on rails.

00:37:49.040 And then this happened,

00:37:50.280 completely derailed me,

00:37:51.640 and just kind of

00:37:52.580 threw me into

00:37:53.360 so many different situations

00:37:55.520 that I wouldn't have

00:37:56.220 otherwise been in,

00:37:58.000 met so many

00:37:58.640 interesting people,

00:38:00.160 and also just had

00:38:01.480 the kind of

00:38:02.040 mist fall from my eyes

00:38:03.820 about the way

00:38:04.680 the media has been lying

00:38:05.900 for the last 10 years

00:38:06.880 and what the media

00:38:08.040 has been doing.

00:38:09.200 And,

00:38:09.720 and finally beginning

00:38:10.880 to realize that,

00:38:11.800 oh,

00:38:12.080 this is just,

00:38:12.820 we're just being

00:38:13.360 manipulated to keep us,

00:38:14.980 to keep us,

00:38:15.960 uh,

00:38:16.640 uh,

00:38:16.920 under control

00:38:17.720 and to keep us docile.

00:38:19.480 But,

00:38:20.060 unfortunately,

00:38:20.900 they,

00:38:21.120 they did that

00:38:21.920 with the wrong thing

00:38:22.820 because you can't

00:38:24.300 tell fathers

00:38:24.980 that their daughters

00:38:25.800 won't have fair sports.

00:38:27.140 You can't tell women 1.00

00:38:27.940 that they,

00:38:28.680 they can no longer

00:38:29.280 be safe in,

00:38:30.020 in rape crisis centers

00:38:31.560 and so on.

00:38:32.080 It's not going to happen.

00:38:32.960 You know,

00:38:33.700 that is the immovable object

00:38:35.320 that proved

00:38:36.380 that the trans movement

00:38:37.280 wasn't an unstoppable force,

00:38:39.360 you know.

00:38:39.760 And it's really interesting

00:38:41.360 because we touched on this

00:38:42.620 before the interview,

00:38:43.780 right?

00:38:43.960 I've always thought,

00:38:45.220 cards on the table,

00:38:46.360 huge fan,

00:38:46.900 always have been

00:38:47.460 since the days of Father Ted,

00:38:48.720 loved your comedy,

00:38:50.240 your writing,

00:38:50.800 and all of that.

00:38:52.340 But one thing

00:38:53.220 I've been really

00:38:54.340 disappointed by

00:38:55.880 is the cowardice

00:38:57.320 of the people

00:38:58.020 in your profession

00:38:59.400 and our profession

00:39:00.480 who have not wanted

00:39:02.460 to go near this topic,

00:39:04.260 even though privately

00:39:05.180 they go,

00:39:05.720 I secretly agree

00:39:06.400 with what you're doing,

00:39:07.200 number one.

00:39:08.020 Or number two,

00:39:08.740 the people who would just

00:39:10.040 come out in full force 0.97

00:39:11.980 and support this nonsense. 0.87

00:39:14.200 Mm.

00:39:14.820 Robin Ince

00:39:15.540 and people like that.

00:39:16.920 You know,

00:39:17.160 David Tennant

00:39:18.020 and all of these people

00:39:18.980 and you go,

00:39:19.560 what's going on here?

00:39:20.900 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:39:22.080 I think often

00:39:23.540 with those people,

00:39:24.600 there's some sort

00:39:25.300 of personal connection.

00:39:27.020 Their cousin

00:39:27.660 or, you know,

00:39:29.840 nephew

00:39:30.200 or whatever it happens

00:39:31.120 to be

00:39:31.620 is calling himself

00:39:33.280 non-binary

00:39:33.820 and everyone's

00:39:34.480 going along with it

00:39:35.300 for an easy life,

00:39:36.440 you know,

00:39:36.840 and they get suckered

00:39:38.000 into it that way.

00:39:39.540 The people I don't understand

00:39:41.240 and the phenomenon

00:39:42.540 I don't understand

00:39:43.340 is the first part

00:39:44.160 of what you said,

00:39:45.200 the people being scared.

00:39:46.980 It's like,

00:39:47.580 wow,

00:39:47.860 is it that easy

00:39:48.580 to keep people scared,

00:39:50.160 to get them so scared

00:39:51.060 they won't even

00:39:51.560 approach a topic?

00:39:52.880 Mm.

00:39:53.440 And this happened

00:39:54.080 without us realizing

00:39:55.020 that we were now

00:39:57.080 in a world,

00:39:57.860 like,

00:39:58.060 the way I often put it

00:39:59.760 is that with social networks,

00:40:01.860 and I'm a great example

00:40:02.880 of this because for the first,

00:40:04.360 while I was building up

00:40:05.260 a social media presence,

00:40:07.340 not that that's

00:40:07.940 what I aimed to do,

00:40:08.620 I was just telling jokes

00:40:09.500 on the internet,

00:40:10.160 you know,

00:40:10.500 but as I was building

00:40:11.620 that up,

00:40:12.740 I was creating

00:40:13.880 around myself

00:40:14.740 a structure

00:40:16.000 by which I could be harassed.

00:40:19.060 And we all do that.

00:40:20.300 We all have it,

00:40:20.980 you know,

00:40:21.340 to a greater or lesser extent.

00:40:23.380 The people who have no 1.00

00:40:24.300 internet footprint at all,

00:40:27.580 they are very hard

00:40:29.160 to harass,

00:40:30.340 you know?

00:40:30.800 It's extremely difficult

00:40:32.140 to get to them.

00:40:33.280 But if you have

00:40:34.220 any kind of an online life,

00:40:36.240 they got you,

00:40:37.060 you know?

00:40:37.580 Like,

00:40:37.820 one of,

00:40:39.200 I can't talk about this

00:40:40.380 because it's my current trial,

00:40:41.700 but like,

00:40:43.200 I know they do things like,

00:40:45.560 you could take a picture

00:40:48.200 in your house,

00:40:49.220 right?

00:40:49.540 And you can see

00:40:50.340 the world outside

00:40:52.220 the window behind you.

00:40:53.340 Well,

00:40:53.480 they'll look at that world,

00:40:54.300 they'll try to figure out

00:40:55.040 where you live from it,

00:40:56.220 you know?

00:40:56.820 So any information

00:40:57.940 you have online,

00:40:59.460 they will grab.

00:41:00.280 And because I was

00:41:00.980 the writer of Father Ted

00:41:02.880 and I never thought

00:41:03.440 anyone would come after me,

00:41:05.200 our business address

00:41:06.300 was actually our home address

00:41:07.460 and it was on

00:41:08.180 company's house.

00:41:09.460 And of course,

00:41:09.960 one of the first things

00:41:10.880 that this guy did to me

00:41:13.820 was publish our home address,

00:41:16.500 you know,

00:41:16.700 which kind of scared

00:41:17.600 my wife even more.

00:41:18.580 But what I do find,

00:41:20.740 I just find it disturbing

00:41:22.080 that everyone just kind of

00:41:25.060 did the same thing.

00:41:26.660 They all just bowed their heads

00:41:27.820 and waited for the mob

00:41:29.020 to pass by.

00:41:30.240 No one said,

00:41:30.980 hang on,

00:41:31.280 there's a mob

00:41:31.760 and we should be looking

00:41:32.580 out for each other.

00:41:33.740 Everyone just bowed their heads

00:41:34.900 and waited.

00:41:35.740 And that's what

00:41:36.620 I find extraordinary.

00:41:38.640 In fact,

00:41:39.340 I don't even know

00:41:40.340 if they even knew

00:41:41.940 they were doing it.

00:41:43.540 I would ask people

00:41:45.080 and they'd talk about it

00:41:46.540 as if it was just

00:41:47.200 an annoyance,

00:41:48.420 you know,

00:41:48.700 this,

00:41:48.960 this,

00:41:49.300 this,

00:41:50.460 you know,

00:41:51.260 I don't have anything

00:41:51.780 to do with that,

00:41:52.600 you know.

00:41:52.940 It's like,

00:41:53.340 well,

00:41:53.720 fair enough,

00:41:54.440 but,

00:41:55.200 you know,

00:41:55.620 some people don't have

00:41:56.400 the choice,

00:41:57.300 you know,

00:41:58.660 the Darlington nurses,

00:42:00.060 for instance,

00:42:00.640 you know,

00:42:00.860 they don't have the choice.

00:42:01.960 They're being,

00:42:03.840 their lives have been,

00:42:05.360 have been changed

00:42:05.980 by this stuff

00:42:06.680 and they didn't ask for it.

00:42:08.080 So can't you stand up

00:42:09.100 for them?

00:42:10.340 Nope.

00:42:11.020 Well, Graeme,

00:42:11.500 you talked about

00:42:12.260 if you were to draw

00:42:15.320 or pick,

00:42:15.660 track your movements

00:42:17.580 within a small part

00:42:19.000 of London

00:42:19.420 while you were still

00:42:22.480 in the creative world.

00:42:24.920 And I think

00:42:26.040 that's probably telling

00:42:27.520 of the way

00:42:28.100 that other people

00:42:28.980 in that world

00:42:29.720 also operate.

00:42:30.740 It's very insulated.

00:42:32.940 Everyone thinks

00:42:33.740 that they're on the right

00:42:34.500 side of history.

00:42:35.980 As, you know,

00:42:36.880 you hinted before we started,

00:42:38.240 like you've changed

00:42:39.040 your mind

00:42:39.480 on a lot of things

00:42:40.340 and there was a point

00:42:41.520 at which you saw

00:42:42.480 a lot of people

00:42:43.200 as evil

00:42:44.020 and immoral,

00:42:45.380 et cetera.

00:42:46.440 You've kind of

00:42:47.120 grown through that,

00:42:47.960 haven't you,

00:42:48.260 as a result

00:42:48.740 of the experiences

00:42:49.480 you've had?

00:42:50.080 Yeah, absolutely.

00:42:51.360 You know,

00:42:51.920 and I think

00:42:53.960 another thing

00:42:55.000 to possibly,

00:42:56.440 well, here's the thing,

00:42:57.200 I don't know

00:42:57.740 whether the left

00:42:58.400 has changed.

00:42:59.540 I think they have.

00:43:00.160 No, it's fair,

00:43:00.940 the left have definitely

00:43:01.880 changed.

00:43:03.780 But I don't know

00:43:04.680 if there was an aspect

00:43:05.480 of them that was

00:43:06.100 always like this.

00:43:07.380 And it makes me look back,

00:43:08.520 it makes me think

00:43:09.400 of certain

00:43:09.800 Stalin-esque

00:43:10.800 aspects

00:43:12.400 that this current

00:43:13.560 movement has,

00:43:15.640 you know,

00:43:16.060 like disappearing people

00:43:17.560 and reputation ruining

00:43:19.380 and all that sort of thing.

00:43:20.700 And it makes me wonder

00:43:21.440 if that was always

00:43:22.080 a feature

00:43:22.580 of these,

00:43:24.060 of socialism

00:43:25.160 and left-wing

00:43:26.640 and liberalism

00:43:27.800 and not a bug,

00:43:29.760 you know.

00:43:30.220 Is Stalinism

00:43:31.060 actually the thing

00:43:31.980 that people like

00:43:32.660 about socialism?

00:43:33.540 Not the,

00:43:34.860 everybody gets to eat

00:43:36.380 or everybody gets

00:43:37.160 to own land.

00:43:38.220 No, it's,

00:43:38.940 you get to destroy

00:43:39.600 your enemies.

00:43:40.820 And I think

00:43:42.160 that the left

00:43:42.780 over the last few years

00:43:44.000 have been very clear

00:43:45.920 that that's what

00:43:46.520 they want to do.

00:43:47.200 They want to destroy 1.00

00:43:48.100 and kill their enemies. 0.99

00:43:49.440 The reason they killed 1.00

00:43:50.440 Charlie Kirk

00:43:51.120 was because

00:43:51.860 he had

00:43:52.700 the effrontery

00:43:54.620 to debate

00:43:56.400 them

00:43:56.960 about their,

00:43:58.020 about their beliefs.

00:43:59.340 And then

00:43:59.680 one thing that

00:44:00.700 he kept revealing

00:44:02.380 is that their beliefs

00:44:03.320 were built on nothing.

00:44:04.540 Their beliefs

00:44:04.960 were built on

00:44:05.620 a sort of

00:44:06.560 very,

00:44:07.880 very

00:44:08.220 delicate

00:44:09.860 network

00:44:10.580 of their friends

00:44:11.900 and what the media

00:44:13.140 is saying.

00:44:13.860 But there was

00:44:14.500 nothing beneath it.

00:44:15.580 Nothing,

00:44:15.960 nothing powering it.

00:44:17.160 No real,

00:44:18.100 no facts,

00:44:19.780 no,

00:44:19.920 no,

00:44:20.200 no,

00:44:20.520 no philosophy.

00:44:21.780 Just a kind

00:44:22.980 of an overriding

00:44:25.600 urge

00:44:26.120 to see

00:44:28.240 the bad guy

00:44:28.880 punished,

00:44:29.680 you know?

00:44:30.780 And yeah,

00:44:32.160 now I look at things

00:44:33.020 like the way

00:44:34.020 it's so interesting

00:44:34.940 when you see

00:44:35.420 people going up

00:44:36.200 to these

00:44:36.620 weird kind

00:44:39.140 of protests

00:44:39.800 by boomers.

00:44:40.760 You know,

00:44:40.960 boomers seem 1.00

00:44:41.440 to have gone 0.96

00:44:41.780 completely mad.

00:44:43.100 But like

00:44:43.860 going up to them

00:44:44.800 and putting

00:44:45.440 a microphone 0.67

00:44:45.820 in their face 0.63

00:44:46.300 and saying,

00:44:46.720 what specifically

00:44:47.400 do you not like

00:44:48.160 about X or Y?

00:44:49.480 And they never know.

00:44:50.260 They can never say,

00:44:51.300 you know?

00:44:51.960 And so I worry

00:44:53.560 a little bit

00:44:54.080 that the left

00:44:55.220 has become

00:44:55.700 this engine

00:44:56.380 that just wants to,

00:44:58.380 that realizes

00:44:59.040 it can't win

00:45:00.480 arguments

00:45:01.400 based on

00:45:02.060 just the kind

00:45:02.800 of gut feeling

00:45:03.880 that they all have.

00:45:05.000 And as a result,

00:45:06.120 they're just going

00:45:06.600 to take the

00:45:07.300 opposition out

00:45:09.120 by other means,

00:45:10.120 whether it's

00:45:10.480 by cancellation

00:45:11.000 or by shooting 1.00

00:45:12.460 them in the neck, 1.00

00:45:13.220 you know? 0.88

00:45:14.040 Yeah,

00:45:14.340 it's really worrying

00:45:15.760 how the language

00:45:17.920 that is used online,

00:45:19.420 particularly by the left.

00:45:20.900 I mean,

00:45:21.100 it's starting

00:45:21.560 on the right.

00:45:22.120 We're seeing it

00:45:22.580 on the right as well,

00:45:23.280 which is also worrying.

00:45:24.600 But particularly

00:45:25.380 on the left,

00:45:26.300 you know,

00:45:26.560 calling people

00:45:27.200 fascist Nazis

00:45:28.240 and just thinking 0.83

00:45:29.440 that these words

00:45:30.400 have no impact

00:45:31.500 at all is,

00:45:32.680 it's so reckless.

00:45:33.960 Yeah,

00:45:34.380 yeah,

00:45:35.180 yeah.

00:45:35.680 And it's also,

00:45:37.900 I don't know,

00:45:38.440 I think that the,

00:45:39.200 I think there's been a,

00:45:41.620 it's a,

00:45:42.660 I think there's been

00:45:43.420 an influence

00:45:44.020 of the kind

00:45:46.420 of wild west

00:45:47.200 of the internet

00:45:47.760 when you think

00:45:48.360 about places

00:45:49.300 like 4chan

00:45:50.120 and Reddit

00:45:50.500 and so on.

00:45:51.980 I think there's,

00:45:52.720 there's trolling

00:45:54.140 is something

00:45:55.120 the left seems

00:45:55.820 to enjoy doing now,

00:45:57.460 you know?

00:45:57.940 And it's never clever.

00:45:59.100 It's just,

00:45:59.420 it's just the most horrific

00:46:00.320 kind of like that woman 0.98

00:46:01.200 doing this to her neck

00:46:03.340 to some Charlie Kirk fans

00:46:05.260 and so on.

00:46:06.080 Apparently she was a teacher. 0.99

00:46:07.420 Yeah,

00:46:07.880 yeah.

00:46:08.680 But as you say,

00:46:09.680 all these people think

00:46:10.420 they're on the side

00:46:11.060 of the angels,

00:46:11.840 so nothing they can do

00:46:12.780 can be bad.

00:46:13.760 That's the way

00:46:14.240 they think about it.

00:46:15.640 But again,

00:46:17.600 it's not based

00:46:18.640 on anything tangible,

00:46:19.960 you know?

00:46:20.720 It's like,

00:46:22.200 well,

00:46:22.700 do you,

00:46:23.080 you know,

00:46:23.560 if Kamala Harris

00:46:25.760 let loads of

00:46:26.400 undocumented people in

00:46:28.100 and he's stopping that,

00:46:30.580 what is your problem exactly?

00:46:32.660 What,

00:46:32.880 you know,

00:46:33.200 what is your problem

00:46:34.360 with all this?

00:46:35.480 And so,

00:46:35.800 oh,

00:46:36.040 he's grabbing people

00:46:37.520 off the street,

00:46:38.420 you know?

00:46:38.760 And then you find,

00:46:39.420 you do a little bit

00:46:39.980 of research,

00:46:40.520 you find out

00:46:41.040 they're cartel members

00:46:43.580 or something,

00:46:44.220 you know?

00:46:44.820 And it's like,

00:46:45.840 what are you complaining about?

00:46:47.420 What is the actual

00:46:48.080 substantive reason

00:46:49.900 to hate Trump so much?

00:46:52.140 Not just hate him

00:46:53.180 as,

00:46:54.360 you know,

00:46:54.940 we all hate

00:46:55.700 our elected leaders,

00:46:57.080 but to have this kind of,

00:46:59.060 you know,

00:47:00.640 uncontrollable rage

00:47:02.160 about him.

00:47:03.160 You know,

00:47:03.500 I mean,

00:47:03.800 but I have to say,

00:47:04.900 I had it,

00:47:05.380 I had it myself.

00:47:06.120 I suffered from it myself

00:47:07.400 on the,

00:47:08.100 when he first won,

00:47:10.020 the election,

00:47:11.300 when was it?

00:47:12.140 2017?

00:47:13.120 16, yeah.

00:47:13.740 16.

00:47:15.080 I think that was the start

00:47:17.060 of when they started

00:47:17.660 going into a depression,

00:47:19.020 you know?

00:47:19.860 I was up all night

00:47:20.880 because I couldn't believe it.

00:47:22.920 I still resent

00:47:24.080 that I didn't get

00:47:24.660 a good night's sleep

00:47:25.300 that night over nothing.

00:47:27.920 And I remember

00:47:29.800 breaking it to my son

00:47:31.600 as if it was

00:47:32.240 the most serious thing

00:47:33.060 in the world,

00:47:34.160 you know?

00:47:35.020 My son actually said,

00:47:36.000 you're joking

00:47:36.480 because I'd filled him

00:47:37.400 with so much nonsense

00:47:39.200 about him.

00:47:40.220 And then,

00:47:40.660 you know,

00:47:42.320 the second term

00:47:43.020 comes along

00:47:43.680 and he's surrounding

00:47:44.580 himself with fairly

00:47:45.500 good people,

00:47:46.200 it seems.

00:47:47.060 They're not all perfect,

00:47:48.220 but some of them

00:47:49.080 seem to be

00:47:50.080 interested in making

00:47:51.600 the US a better place.

00:47:55.160 He's changed

00:47:56.220 in that he seems

00:47:57.020 a little bit

00:47:57.600 better behaved.

00:47:59.900 He's still funny,

00:48:01.820 but it doesn't,

00:48:02.460 he doesn't just,

00:48:03.320 it's not just

00:48:03.980 kind of coming out

00:48:05.360 randomly.

00:48:07.460 You know,

00:48:08.600 he's obviously

00:48:10.100 learned

00:48:10.600 from his previous

00:48:12.020 experience

00:48:12.720 and understands

00:48:14.120 the mechanics

00:48:14.880 of the presidency

00:48:15.780 now,

00:48:16.860 you know?

00:48:17.280 So I just don't,

00:48:18.800 I think,

00:48:19.240 do you know what I think

00:48:19.860 it is?

00:48:20.160 Actually saying it out loud,

00:48:21.180 I now realize what it is.

00:48:22.380 It is his competency.

00:48:24.320 It is his ability

00:48:25.500 to get things done

00:48:26.380 that they hate.

00:48:27.460 Same with Charlie.

00:48:28.300 That was your point.

00:48:29.520 They targeted him

00:48:31.360 because he was effective

00:48:32.540 in what he did.

00:48:34.360 Yeah.

00:48:34.480 This is the weird thing

00:48:35.840 about the way,

00:48:37.840 the weird thing

00:48:39.220 with President Trump

00:48:40.040 and there are plenty

00:48:41.460 of things to criticize him

00:48:42.860 for and disagree with him

00:48:43.900 and dislike about him

00:48:45.640 or the MAGA movement

00:48:46.700 or the party.

00:48:47.920 Lots of problems

00:48:48.660 as there are in every person

00:48:50.180 and every party,

00:48:51.000 whatever.

00:48:52.080 But he is uniquely criticized

00:48:54.060 for doing the things

00:48:55.240 that he was elected to do.

00:48:56.860 Yeah.

00:48:57.520 Yeah.

00:48:57.720 People voted on immigration

00:49:00.000 in this country

00:49:00.760 to a very,

00:49:01.680 very significant extent

00:49:02.640 and when he tries

00:49:03.500 to deal with it,

00:49:04.360 that's what it is

00:49:05.360 that he is then criticized for.

00:49:06.700 Yeah, yeah.

00:49:07.120 Very weird.

00:49:07.840 But it's interesting

00:49:08.400 you said you were filled

00:49:09.400 with a kind of TDS,

00:49:11.900 Trump derangement syndrome,

00:49:13.100 hatred. 0.59

00:49:14.120 You clearly have been cured

00:49:16.440 of all of that.

00:49:18.520 Do you think

00:49:18.940 other than being violently,

00:49:20.740 not violently,

00:49:21.720 other than being viciously harassed

00:49:23.540 and canceled,

00:49:24.860 is there a cure

00:49:25.860 for this sort of derangement?

00:49:28.720 Not just Trump,

00:49:29.780 but in general.

00:49:31.000 There's like...

00:49:31.500 You know what? 0.98

00:49:32.100 I think you might have to be destroyed 0.98

00:49:34.740 by the same people

00:49:37.760 who are telling you,

00:49:38.580 who are lying to you

00:49:39.340 about Trump

00:49:39.880 before you realize,

00:49:41.420 oh, hang on a second.

00:49:42.880 You know?

00:49:43.460 Like, I used to believe

00:49:45.020 it about all sorts of people

00:49:46.140 without knowing why.

00:49:47.220 I remember there was a bad smell

00:49:48.320 around Joe Rogan

00:49:49.200 and I remember thinking,

00:49:50.660 oh, he's right wing.

00:49:51.580 You know,

00:49:51.760 just this vague thought

00:49:52.720 in my head.

00:49:53.820 And by the way,

00:49:54.500 there's nothing wrong

00:49:55.140 with being right wing.

00:49:55.840 I know.

00:49:56.440 No, no, I'm not saying you,

00:49:57.480 but like,

00:49:57.960 because of we,

00:49:58.560 because, oh, he's right wing.

00:49:59.720 It's just like,

00:50:00.420 well, he believes in small government.

00:50:02.940 That's the other thing

00:50:03.820 I realized, you know?

00:50:05.060 I've met so many conservatives

00:50:06.720 recently

00:50:07.220 and, you know,

00:50:08.400 they're smart people

00:50:10.980 who you can really

00:50:12.180 have a good conversation with.

00:50:13.680 You can't really have

00:50:14.620 the same kinds of conversations

00:50:15.880 with leftists usually,

00:50:17.240 you know?

00:50:17.780 Because they're all,

00:50:18.760 they're so much,

00:50:19.740 they're so feelings driven

00:50:21.280 and they're so kind of,

00:50:23.260 I don't know,

00:50:25.080 they're so removed

00:50:25.780 from reality,

00:50:26.860 you know?

00:50:27.400 It's like,

00:50:27.920 it's like this thing

00:50:28.740 that in Ireland,

00:50:30.360 again,

00:50:31.240 this,

00:50:31.580 this,

00:50:32.100 what I was saying

00:50:33.100 about the bubbling pot,

00:50:34.300 you know,

00:50:34.660 the,

00:50:34.960 this recent,

00:50:35.720 the girl who was killed

00:50:36.660 recently,

00:50:37.180 10 year old girl,

00:50:38.740 I'm sorry,

00:50:39.360 not killed,

00:50:40.840 raped, 0.55

00:50:41.420 10 year old girl 0.88

00:50:42.100 was raped.

00:50:43.260 And the BBC 0.96

00:50:44.760 did an extraordinary thing.

00:50:46.740 They reported on the riots,

00:50:48.120 but they didn't say

00:50:48.880 why they happened,

00:50:49.620 you know?

00:50:51.280 You would think

00:50:51.820 that that would be

00:50:52.700 a part of the,

00:50:53.280 but it's just riots in Dublin,

00:50:54.540 like it's weather or something.

00:50:56.480 And,

00:50:56.980 and,

00:50:57.420 and so you realize

00:50:59.060 that all these people

00:51:00.100 who defamed me

00:51:01.020 and called me a bigot,

00:51:02.000 and that's what

00:51:03.140 they're in the job of.

00:51:04.160 They're in the job

00:51:05.080 of selectively

00:51:05.920 giving people information

00:51:07.180 that means they will do

00:51:08.480 what they want them to do.

00:51:09.820 And it's why I brought up

00:51:10.960 the werewolf game

00:51:12.960 at the last,

00:51:14.100 last time we spoke.

00:51:15.480 Because,

00:51:16.020 you know,

00:51:16.540 unless we,

00:51:18.080 unless we develop

00:51:18.900 some,

00:51:19.620 some tools

00:51:22.240 to combat

00:51:24.060 the misinformation

00:51:25.440 we're being fed

00:51:26.340 from,

00:51:26.860 from the people we trust,

00:51:29.220 then it's going to be

00:51:30.360 a very rocky

00:51:31.680 next few years.

00:51:32.440 Because you've seen

00:51:33.220 what AI can do.

00:51:34.060 You've seen the,

00:51:35.240 it's now,

00:51:36.380 just the other day,

00:51:37.860 Connolly,

00:51:38.720 Christine Connolly,

00:51:39.400 I can't remember her first name,

00:51:40.700 but the presidential candidate

00:51:42.040 in Ireland

00:51:42.600 announced her resignation,

00:51:44.300 you know?

00:51:44.820 But it wasn't,

00:51:45.480 it was AI.

00:51:46.740 And that's going to happen

00:51:47.740 more and more often

00:51:48.620 and,

00:51:49.240 and this unsteadiness

00:51:51.140 on our feet

00:51:51.820 is going to get worse

00:51:52.840 and worse and worse.

00:51:54.460 And the sad thing is

00:51:55.540 we don't have anyone

00:51:56.120 to protect us.

00:51:56.780 We should have,

00:51:57.400 in the UK,

00:51:58.020 we should have had the BBC

00:51:58.980 to protect us from that.

00:52:00.300 The BBC should have been

00:52:01.260 the gold standard,

00:52:02.120 you know?

00:52:02.900 That,

00:52:03.320 that if it's,

00:52:03.880 if the BBC says it,

00:52:04.960 then it's probably true.

00:52:06.080 Right?

00:52:06.720 That should be,

00:52:08.360 that national broadcaster,

00:52:09.900 it should be like that,

00:52:10.840 that taxpayers pay for.

00:52:12.240 But now,

00:52:13.940 now,

00:52:14.380 they've just spent

00:52:15.140 10 years lying to people.

00:52:17.000 I think that the,

00:52:17.920 I think there was a,

00:52:18.560 there was a,

00:52:19.120 there was a,

00:52:20.400 an upsurge in,

00:52:22.160 uh,

00:52:22.900 terms of kids seeking

00:52:24.180 gender reassignment

00:52:25.120 when

00:52:25.620 I Am Leo,

00:52:27.140 the BBC program,

00:52:28.120 came out.

00:52:28.640 They've never apologized

00:52:29.380 for that.

00:52:30.400 They've never apologized

00:52:31.260 for pushing this.

00:52:32.760 Um,

00:52:33.880 and as a result,

00:52:34.740 you know,

00:52:35.000 we just,

00:52:35.820 this,

00:52:36.360 this,

00:52:36.760 we're going into,

00:52:37.680 to an uncertain future

00:52:38.840 where we really can't be sure

00:52:40.020 what we're seeing

00:52:40.540 is real or not.

00:52:41.260 And we don't have anyone

00:52:42.680 on our side,

00:52:43.640 except us stragglers,

00:52:45.880 who,

00:52:46.180 with all our little

00:52:47.100 independent things

00:52:48.100 that are going on,

00:52:49.040 my,

00:52:49.240 my little sub stack,

00:52:50.380 and,

00:52:51.000 you know,

00:52:51.240 I know trigonometry is huge,

00:52:52.740 but,

00:52:53.020 but you know what I'm saying.

00:52:54.100 We should be able

00:52:55.340 to look to certain,

00:52:57.300 certain things.

00:52:58.480 It's like,

00:52:58.860 it was like,

00:52:59.520 uh,

00:52:59.780 Matt Taibbi's,

00:53:00.740 uh,

00:53:01.020 point about Edward Morrow,

00:53:02.920 uh,

00:53:03.860 that,

00:53:04.160 you know,

00:53:04.500 that,

00:53:04.660 that was a time when

00:53:05.560 he,

00:53:07.080 he was,

00:53:07.760 he was hugely respected.

00:53:09.800 And if he said something,

00:53:11.100 you could be sure

00:53:11.760 it was pretty well fact-checked

00:53:13.040 and,

00:53:13.700 you know,

00:53:14.180 but now you just don't

00:53:15.760 have that certainty anymore.

00:53:18.320 A while back,

00:53:19.240 I pushed myself in training

00:53:20.620 because I'm a bit of a legend,

00:53:21.840 but ended up with a back strain

00:53:26.880 that took far longer

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00:54:57.380 Yeah, and look,

00:54:58.920 let's be honest,

00:55:00.020 trigonometry

00:55:00.580 and your substack

00:55:02.400 and all these other things

00:55:03.260 are great,

00:55:03.620 but they're not the answer.

00:55:04.700 Yeah.

00:55:05.060 Because you see it

00:55:06.420 with new media.

00:55:07.240 I mean, actually,

00:55:08.560 unfortunately,

00:55:09.440 look,

00:55:09.880 we're very happy

00:55:10.880 with where we are.

00:55:11.780 We're doing very well.

00:55:12.700 But if you look

00:55:13.620 at the things

00:55:14.100 that attract the most attention

00:55:15.720 in the new media world,

00:55:16.940 it's crazy, 1.00

00:55:18.100 batshit conspiracy crap. 1.00

00:55:19.660 Yes, yes. 0.99

00:55:20.820 That's what's also happening

00:55:22.720 because that's,

00:55:23.880 you know,

00:55:24.280 that appeals to people.

00:55:25.380 And also,

00:55:25.840 I'm sure you would draw,

00:55:26.820 I mean,

00:55:27.140 I know you've had

00:55:28.420 some great moments

00:55:29.260 as well

00:55:30.360 with the Oxford debates

00:55:32.420 and things like that,

00:55:33.320 you know.

00:55:33.940 But there is a part of me

00:55:35.940 that wishes,

00:55:36.500 I still wish

00:55:37.300 I was sitting around a table

00:55:38.500 just talking about

00:55:40.580 different words for farts

00:55:42.020 with some funny people,

00:55:44.620 you know.

00:55:45.260 That's been kind of

00:55:46.380 taken from us

00:55:47.260 because we've had to step in. 0.95

00:55:49.880 It's so ridiculous 0.88

00:55:50.900 to even say that, 0.85

00:55:52.020 but we have.

00:55:52.600 We've had to step in

00:55:53.560 and do the job

00:55:54.260 that the BBC

00:55:54.820 and other mainstream channels

00:55:58.680 aren't doing,

00:55:59.680 you know.

00:56:00.440 We shouldn't have to do this.

00:56:02.260 We're not professionals.

00:56:03.920 Do you know what I mean?

00:56:05.040 Right.

00:56:05.300 We started off

00:56:06.380 trying to make people laugh

00:56:07.640 and now we have to do this.

00:56:09.020 Why is that now our job?

00:56:11.460 Why isn't someone,

00:56:12.640 you know,

00:56:14.040 like,

00:56:15.000 why isn't there

00:56:15.900 a David Dimbleby type

00:56:17.600 or where are they all going,

00:56:19.440 you know?

00:56:19.920 And they're still there,

00:56:21.140 but they're lying

00:56:21.900 and they're misrepresenting.

00:56:24.140 Like,

00:56:24.740 Today's program

00:56:25.360 is still misrepresenting

00:56:26.780 women's hour

00:56:29.240 that still doesn't have

00:56:31.280 feminists on it,

00:56:33.820 you know,

00:56:34.400 like Helen Joyce

00:56:35.360 and so on.

00:56:37.520 They just won't do their jobs.

00:56:39.400 So we have to do it.

00:56:40.500 It's a crazy situation.

00:56:41.780 Do you think

00:56:42.400 Britain will recover from this?

00:56:44.500 Do you think

00:56:45.100 there comes a point

00:56:46.180 where all of this

00:56:46.980 is dialed back?

00:56:49.080 I think the gender thing is, 0.76

00:56:50.900 yeah,

00:56:51.360 I don't think that

00:56:51.920 that's a problem.

00:56:52.560 I think that the real

00:56:53.820 problem, though,

00:56:55.680 is the immigration thing

00:56:57.500 in terms of how

00:56:58.520 it's been reported

00:56:59.900 and not reported.

00:57:02.420 So I think that

00:57:03.440 the idea that

00:57:04.420 you can keep

00:57:05.240 mollify

00:57:05.980 a nation of people

00:57:08.960 who are worried

00:57:09.680 about what these

00:57:10.520 changing demographics

00:57:12.040 mean to their country,

00:57:14.540 if they can't speak

00:57:16.880 about that

00:57:17.520 and if their speech

00:57:20.160 about that

00:57:20.980 is considered

00:57:21.980 racist, 0.77

00:57:23.920 then it's a far

00:57:25.340 greater worry to me

00:57:26.580 that we're seeing

00:57:27.540 some sort of,

00:57:28.780 I don't know,

00:57:29.900 some sort of social

00:57:30.580 breakdown over the next

00:57:31.520 few years, you know.

00:57:32.680 I don't think,

00:57:33.400 I think that that

00:57:34.100 is entirely possible.

00:57:36.380 Ireland just had this 0.98

00:57:37.240 rape, 0.99

00:57:38.480 something like that

00:57:39.120 could happen at any

00:57:39.840 moment with the way

00:57:41.540 immigration is

00:57:43.400 unchecked at the moment

00:57:44.340 and

00:57:45.480 it'll just take

00:57:48.000 something like that

00:57:48.640 to make it all go off,

00:57:49.920 you know.

00:57:50.400 And then the police

00:57:50.960 will really enter

00:57:52.080 into the new stage

00:57:53.000 of their existence,

00:57:54.160 which is just pure

00:57:55.180 keeping people

00:57:56.880 from, you know,

00:57:58.840 burning stuff up.

00:58:01.480 And it's not going

00:58:02.280 to be pretty

00:58:02.760 and unfortunately

00:58:03.720 I don't see

00:58:05.480 the media changing.

00:58:06.500 They haven't learned

00:58:07.040 from the trans issue,

00:58:07.960 certainly,

00:58:08.500 because they're still

00:58:09.120 doing it.

00:58:09.680 but I don't see them

00:58:11.880 saying,

00:58:12.480 hang on,

00:58:12.860 we have to reflect

00:58:14.920 the world as it is,

00:58:15.860 not as we would

00:58:16.600 wish it to be.

00:58:17.760 Because once you do

00:58:18.660 that,

00:58:19.060 then, you know,

00:58:20.240 at least people feel

00:58:21.840 they're being heard,

00:58:23.320 you know.

00:58:23.920 But if you're not

00:58:24.640 even being heard,

00:58:25.860 then that kind of

00:58:26.680 social breakdown

00:58:27.380 is much more

00:58:29.020 possible, I think.

00:58:33.540 I mean,

00:58:33.800 that's the worrying

00:58:34.620 thing,

00:58:35.220 because you look

00:58:35.940 at what's happening

00:58:36.660 in Ireland,

00:58:37.660 and it's,

00:58:38.740 I mean,

00:58:39.180 I know very little

00:58:40.040 about it,

00:58:40.640 I've got some

00:58:41.320 Irish relatives,

00:58:42.280 but you're looking

00:58:43.520 at it and you talk

00:58:44.360 to a few people

00:58:45.020 and you go,

00:58:45.380 well,

00:58:45.460 this is a powder cake,

00:58:47.000 and yet no one's

00:58:48.140 talking about it.

00:58:49.020 Yeah,

00:58:49.440 that's it.

00:58:50.040 What is happening

00:58:50.860 in Ireland?

00:58:51.960 I think just that

00:58:53.300 we've had,

00:58:55.260 you know,

00:58:55.780 that weird European 0.99

00:58:56.680 project of just

00:58:57.560 flooding the country

00:58:58.420 with immigrants

00:58:59.640 for some reason.

00:59:02.120 I don't know

00:59:02.600 if there's someone

00:59:03.100 somewhere going,

00:59:03.980 oh no,

00:59:04.260 if we do this,

00:59:05.080 everybody will be

00:59:05.780 10 quid better off

00:59:06.720 or something.

00:59:07.440 But there's no reason

00:59:08.720 given for it.

00:59:09.480 It's changing the

00:59:10.200 demographics of the country.

00:59:13.780 I believe in Galway,

00:59:15.120 the most popular name

00:59:17.100 is Mohammed now.

00:59:19.680 Now,

00:59:19.920 I'm pretty sure

00:59:21.240 that's not a rumour,

00:59:22.040 but it might not

00:59:22.520 have been Galway.

00:59:24.680 And,

00:59:25.220 you know,

00:59:26.140 you have these hostels

00:59:27.900 that are being turned

00:59:28.620 over completely

00:59:29.500 to immigrants.

00:59:30.700 Again,

00:59:31.500 they're not families.

00:59:32.900 They're military-aged men.

00:59:37.280 What does anyone

00:59:39.120 hope to gain

00:59:39.820 by all this?

00:59:40.720 What is going on?

00:59:41.880 And what does anyone

00:59:43.260 hope to gain

00:59:44.080 by not letting

00:59:44.960 the Irish speak about it?

00:59:47.020 And RTE

00:59:47.740 is just allergic

00:59:48.840 to allowing anything

00:59:50.420 other than

00:59:51.040 the Dublin 4

00:59:53.180 kind of

00:59:53.780 media mindset

00:59:56.260 to,

00:59:57.200 you know,

01:00:00.960 dictate

01:00:01.500 what the

01:00:02.260 discourse is.

01:00:04.380 And also,

01:00:05.320 Ireland has got

01:00:06.140 a tremendous

01:00:06.620 housing crisis.

01:00:07.480 It's practically

01:00:08.200 unaffordable

01:00:08.740 to buy property

01:00:09.660 in Dublin.

01:00:10.260 Yeah,

01:00:10.620 yeah,

01:00:11.100 it's crazy.

01:00:11.760 And,

01:00:12.200 you know,

01:00:12.420 you go to Dublin,

01:00:13.180 go to any restaurant,

01:00:14.180 and the prices

01:00:14.680 are unbelievable.

01:00:15.760 Dublin is kind

01:00:16.580 if not,

01:00:17.880 it's only possible

01:00:19.080 to live in Dublin

01:00:19.920 if you're of a certain

01:00:21.640 tax bracket,

01:00:24.280 you know?

01:00:25.120 It's like,

01:00:27.100 just,

01:00:27.780 you're either rich

01:00:28.880 or you're nothing,

01:00:29.740 you know?

01:00:30.380 And it's like,

01:00:31.760 and also,

01:00:32.400 you know,

01:00:32.620 even if you're well off,

01:00:34.440 you can't buy anywhere

01:00:35.520 because the house prices

01:00:36.500 are so insane.

01:00:37.880 So every household

01:00:38.920 has three or four cars

01:00:40.380 because it's the only place

01:00:41.460 that they can't move out,

01:00:43.760 and it's the only place

01:00:44.880 they can be in private.

01:00:46.260 We've got this massive

01:00:46.940 traffic problem as well,

01:00:48.540 you know,

01:00:48.780 that's slightly better

01:00:50.220 these days,

01:00:50.760 I think.

01:00:51.600 But it's,

01:00:52.720 I don't know,

01:00:54.300 the thing that's taken

01:00:56.080 a real hit for me

01:00:57.180 over the last few years

01:00:58.260 is thinking

01:00:59.580 there's anyone

01:01:00.880 somewhere

01:01:02.080 who knows what they're doing

01:01:03.980 and will sort it out.

01:01:05.780 You know,

01:01:06.060 you used to think,

01:01:06.740 well,

01:01:06.940 they know what they're doing

01:01:07.560 in banks

01:01:08.060 or they know what they're doing

01:01:10.380 in the cockpit,

01:01:12.100 you know?

01:01:12.560 But you don't have

01:01:13.380 that easy confidence

01:01:14.600 in everything now

01:01:15.720 because you realise,

01:01:16.780 oh,

01:01:16.880 they're just people like me

01:01:18.000 and they might be good

01:01:19.700 at their jobs,

01:01:20.480 but when you think about,

01:01:23.040 there was a funny quote

01:01:24.040 that a science fiction writer

01:01:25.140 once said,

01:01:26.000 he was asked

01:01:26.560 at this conference,

01:01:28.880 well, 0.99

01:01:29.140 isn't 95% of science fiction crap? 0.99

01:01:32.480 And he said, 1.00

01:01:33.220 95% of everything is crap. 1.00

01:01:35.300 And it's true 1.00

01:01:35.840 that in life,

01:01:36.540 it seems to be

01:01:37.460 that there's a few people

01:01:38.820 who are truly capable,

01:01:41.680 you know?

01:01:41.940 Charlie Kirk

01:01:42.700 seemed to be one

01:01:43.940 and they've killed him.

01:01:45.820 And everybody else

01:01:47.280 is either just,

01:01:48.760 you know,

01:01:49.180 trying to get by,

01:01:50.600 trying not to let

01:01:51.240 other people know

01:01:51.980 how not in control

01:01:55.460 they are

01:01:55.920 and coast through life,

01:02:00.040 never bringing their A game,

01:02:01.780 never bringing any expertise

01:02:03.600 or empathy to their jobs.

01:02:09.760 And you realise,

01:02:10.800 well,

01:02:10.980 that's government,

01:02:12.560 you know,

01:02:12.920 that's what we got.

01:02:15.480 And I just don't feel,

01:02:19.320 I often bring up

01:02:21.180 the image of the empty cockpit,

01:02:24.100 you know?

01:02:24.520 You're on a plane

01:02:25.260 and you open the door

01:02:26.100 to the cockpit

01:02:26.540 and there's just no one there.

01:02:27.880 That's how I felt

01:02:28.620 over the last few years.

01:02:29.800 All the things

01:02:30.400 that I felt

01:02:32.580 kept life stable

01:02:34.820 and sane

01:02:36.140 and,

01:02:37.300 you know,

01:02:38.900 allowed me

01:02:39.420 to just go on

01:02:40.140 writing comedy

01:02:40.720 and not thinking anything

01:02:41.720 was,

01:02:42.480 you know,

01:02:43.000 being allowed

01:02:44.100 to be in this little playpen

01:02:45.340 where my decisions

01:02:47.380 didn't affect anything

01:02:48.360 other than

01:02:48.900 what was going to appear

01:02:50.480 on a half hour

01:02:51.100 of television.

01:02:51.640 That's gone,

01:02:54.760 you know?

01:02:55.400 Because you can't be

01:02:56.560 as carefree anymore.

01:02:57.940 You have to check

01:02:58.680 every document

01:02:59.320 from your kid's school

01:03:00.320 to make sure

01:03:01.100 they're not being taught

01:03:01.820 some craziness.

01:03:03.220 You have to be

01:03:04.220 on top of everything

01:03:05.060 and that's exhausting

01:03:07.320 and I can understand

01:03:08.220 why some people

01:03:08.920 don't even want to take

01:03:09.860 the first step

01:03:10.660 into this new world.

01:03:11.900 But unfortunately,

01:03:12.800 it's the one we've all taken

01:03:13.780 because,

01:03:14.780 you know,

01:03:15.320 it turns out to be

01:03:16.780 the world we're in.

01:03:17.640 And what you're

01:03:18.240 effectively talking about

01:03:19.480 is the transition

01:03:20.540 from a high-trust society

01:03:21.840 to a low-trust society

01:03:23.040 which is devastating.

01:03:24.560 Yeah, absolutely.

01:03:26.160 Absolutely.

01:03:26.840 I mean,

01:03:27.080 I get less of a feel

01:03:28.400 of it here.

01:03:29.640 America feels

01:03:30.440 kind of high-trust.

01:03:31.460 I don't know why

01:03:32.120 but it just,

01:03:34.520 I don't know,

01:03:35.380 it's just so big,

01:03:36.380 I guess,

01:03:36.820 and the people here

01:03:37.940 are,

01:03:39.240 it's harder

01:03:39.880 to control them.

01:03:41.000 Yeah.

01:03:41.460 There's also no such thing

01:03:42.380 as America

01:03:42.900 because you live

01:03:44.180 in Arizona.

01:03:45.200 If you live in New York,

01:03:46.300 you'll experience

01:03:46.920 a very low-trust society.

01:03:48.160 Sure, sure.

01:03:49.380 You know,

01:03:49.660 it's also

01:03:51.360 where you are.

01:03:53.240 Yes,

01:03:53.660 and also possibly

01:03:54.460 whether you're

01:03:55.040 near a city

01:03:55.660 or in a city.

01:03:56.360 That's right.

01:03:56.900 Yeah, that's right.

01:03:57.360 Yeah, that's right.

01:03:58.400 But I'm glad

01:03:59.560 you found

01:04:00.040 a great life here

01:04:01.880 but it is

01:04:02.420 a massive loss

01:04:03.880 for the fact that,

01:04:06.240 and this is

01:04:06.900 such a weird thing

01:04:07.640 because it applies

01:04:08.380 across the board.

01:04:09.140 You've got

01:04:09.580 the guy

01:04:11.160 who created

01:04:11.700 Revolut,

01:04:12.240 the banking.

01:04:13.160 Oh, yeah.

01:04:13.900 He's left

01:04:14.560 for Dubai.

01:04:15.480 The reason is,

01:04:17.060 as I understand,

01:04:17.900 a tax policy

01:04:18.580 in Britain.

01:04:19.160 Okay.

01:04:19.380 You've got,

01:04:20.580 and that is

01:04:21.240 because government

01:04:22.460 is going crazy

01:04:23.340 on that side of things.

01:04:25.320 Yeah.

01:04:25.860 Then you've got people

01:04:26.480 like you

01:04:26.920 who are forced to,

01:04:28.440 like,

01:04:28.720 if you could have

01:04:29.440 Father Ted the Musical

01:04:30.540 touring around

01:04:32.080 Britain and Ireland

01:04:33.020 and the rest of the world,

01:04:34.520 you'd still be in the UK

01:04:35.680 if you weren't getting arrested

01:04:36.720 every time you land

01:04:37.520 at Heathrow.

01:04:38.160 Yeah.

01:04:38.580 And on and on and on.

01:04:39.560 And it's just,

01:04:40.220 it's just a process

01:04:41.380 of a massive brain drain

01:04:42.960 of talented,

01:04:44.080 driven,

01:04:44.660 ambitious,

01:04:45.840 skilled people

01:04:46.520 being driven out

01:04:47.940 by people

01:04:48.840 who are the exact opposite.

01:04:50.300 Yeah.

01:04:50.640 Who are not geniuses,

01:04:52.540 who are not talented,

01:04:53.680 who are not ambitious,

01:04:54.840 who are mediocre.

01:04:56.600 And there's this sort of,

01:04:58.800 like,

01:04:59.460 mediocre, 0.63

01:05:00.380 tyrannical layer 0.95

01:05:02.260 of people

01:05:02.940 who are in charge

01:05:04.580 and they're driving out

01:05:05.960 the passionate,

01:05:06.880 the creative,

01:05:07.660 the talented,

01:05:08.500 the risk takers,

01:05:09.840 the wealth generators.

01:05:11.800 Yeah.

01:05:12.960 And, you know,

01:05:14.140 and until that ends,

01:05:15.940 this is what's going to happen.

01:05:17.540 And people like you

01:05:18.140 are going to be sitting here

01:05:19.020 by a beautiful pool

01:05:19.880 in the sun.

01:05:20.680 Yeah.

01:05:21.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:05:22.360 I mean, you know,

01:05:23.080 I, yeah,

01:05:25.320 I mean,

01:05:25.800 that's about the size of it.

01:05:27.400 It's not a happy place,

01:05:28.760 it seems to me,

01:05:29.380 when I go back to the UK.

01:05:30.640 No.

01:05:30.880 I worry about it sometimes.

01:05:32.580 You know,

01:05:32.720 my kids are still there,

01:05:33.920 obviously,

01:05:34.420 they're in college now.

01:05:35.600 So I'm particularly worried

01:05:37.920 about them,

01:05:38.540 but I don't know,

01:05:40.180 I just,

01:05:40.720 I sometimes wonder

01:05:41.720 whether the UK has a future,

01:05:43.320 you know?

01:05:43.680 I've never felt like that before.

01:05:45.920 Yeah.

01:05:46.240 But it's,

01:05:47.280 there's so many,

01:05:48.280 there's so many examples

01:05:49.800 of the ruling class

01:05:52.080 or what I call the regime

01:05:55.220 of media,

01:05:56.300 uh,

01:05:57.480 uh,

01:05:58.120 politicians,

01:05:59.900 uh,

01:06:01.320 cultural institutions

01:06:02.640 all basically agreeing

01:06:03.920 on the same line.

01:06:05.380 Uh,

01:06:06.500 like,

01:06:06.920 that's,

01:06:07.600 that's just

01:06:08.280 not gonna end up

01:06:09.920 anywhere good.

01:06:10.600 It's all,

01:06:11.120 like,

01:06:11.300 as an example,

01:06:11.900 it's already killed theater

01:06:12.820 in London.

01:06:13.520 You know,

01:06:13.940 I believe theaters

01:06:14.680 are about to shut down,

01:06:16.860 you know?

01:06:17.240 And that's because,

01:06:18.660 unfortunately,

01:06:19.860 the theater world

01:06:20.520 has been taken over

01:06:21.280 by,

01:06:21.740 as you say,

01:06:22.460 mediocrities,

01:06:23.380 you know?

01:06:23.960 And what better way

01:06:25.100 of,

01:06:25.540 of elevating yourself

01:06:26.780 if you're a mediocrity

01:06:27.860 than tearing down

01:06:29.260 the person

01:06:29.700 who's,

01:06:30.100 who's doing better

01:06:31.000 than you?

01:06:31.680 You know,

01:06:32.100 you saw,

01:06:32.620 you certainly see it

01:06:33.600 in,

01:06:33.820 in children's publishing.

01:06:35.200 The other children's writers

01:06:36.980 who are coming after

01:06:37.940 rolling are very,

01:06:39.420 you know,

01:06:39.960 you,

01:06:40.300 you'd never hear

01:06:41.280 of their work

01:06:41.860 otherwise,

01:06:42.720 you know?

01:06:43.700 So,

01:06:44.220 yeah,

01:06:45.060 this last few years

01:06:46.020 has been a sort of

01:06:47.000 a decade of mediocrities

01:06:49.680 telling,

01:06:50.480 telling their betters

01:06:52.060 what to do.

01:06:54.420 Graham,

01:06:55.860 always good to have you

01:06:56.880 back,

01:06:57.740 even though it tends

01:06:58.960 to be when terrible

01:06:59.720 things have happened.

01:07:01.520 Thanks for coming on.

01:07:02.680 As you know,

01:07:03.300 before we go to

01:07:04.160 our audience questions

01:07:05.160 for you,

01:07:06.000 we always ask,

01:07:06.700 what's the one thing

01:07:07.320 we're not talking about

01:07:08.320 that we should be?

01:07:09.400 We're actually talking

01:07:10.480 about the one thing

01:07:11.240 that we should be

01:07:12.480 talking about.

01:07:13.140 which is,

01:07:13.800 which is the

01:07:14.440 gender ideology. 0.99

01:07:16.560 For years,

01:07:17.460 it has been,

01:07:18.920 you know,

01:07:20.720 just unthinkable

01:07:22.580 to even bring it up

01:07:23.940 in polite company.

01:07:25.260 But now,

01:07:26.180 it's unavoidable.

01:07:27.420 And I think that,

01:07:29.600 no,

01:07:30.040 that's not a good answer.

01:07:30.960 Sorry,

01:07:31.200 you want the one thing

01:07:31.980 that people aren't thinking about.

01:07:33.260 Yeah.

01:07:34.540 I think it's fair to say

01:07:35.540 that anyone listening to this

01:07:36.860 is fairly familiar

01:07:37.800 with the transition.

01:07:38.560 I know,

01:07:39.100 yeah,

01:07:39.540 yeah.

01:07:40.060 We can skip the question.

01:07:41.100 Or you can just say about,

01:07:42.540 you know,

01:07:43.200 the work you're doing

01:07:44.360 with Rob and Andrew

01:07:45.140 if you want.

01:07:48.020 Actually,

01:07:48.520 there's a good example,

01:07:49.240 isn't there?

01:07:49.440 Andrew having to leave.

01:07:54.000 Yeah,

01:07:54.500 no,

01:07:54.760 I think people,

01:07:56.420 maybe I should not tell people

01:07:58.420 what they should talk about

01:07:59.260 for a while.

01:07:59.860 Maybe I should take a holiday.

01:08:03.000 Holidays are great.

01:08:03.840 Yeah.

01:08:04.060 People are not,

01:08:05.120 look,

01:08:05.520 you know,

01:08:06.100 you say that.

01:08:06.840 I actually,

01:08:07.760 I've been taking

01:08:08.540 a lot more time off.

01:08:10.300 Yes.

01:08:11.080 Particularly as I get older

01:08:12.120 because not that-

01:08:13.700 And you've got a kid.

01:08:14.360 Yeah,

01:08:14.680 not that we have

01:08:15.240 the hardest job in the world,

01:08:16.420 but like,

01:08:17.100 what we do is intense mentally.

01:08:19.780 Yeah.

01:08:20.260 And I was starting to find

01:08:21.780 that if I'm like,

01:08:22.820 going on and on and on

01:08:23.880 without taking any time off,

01:08:26.020 A,

01:08:26.260 my health suffers.

01:08:27.400 Yes.

01:08:27.600 And B, 0.99

01:08:28.040 I become a bit of a dick. 0.99

01:08:29.340 Yes, 1.00

01:08:29.780 yes.

01:08:30.000 You know,

01:08:30.580 so actually,

01:08:32.040 you know,

01:08:32.640 taking time off

01:08:33.620 from what you do,

01:08:34.640 especially if you're

01:08:35.480 in a kind of heated environment

01:08:37.060 of the kind that we operate in,

01:08:38.680 I think it's very important

01:08:39.540 and it's stabilizing

01:08:41.000 and grounding.

01:08:42.120 So,

01:08:42.700 it's a very good point.

01:08:43.720 We should all,

01:08:44.160 we should all take some time off.

01:08:46.000 Yeah.

01:08:47.000 Okay.

01:08:47.400 There we go.

01:08:48.080 I told you

01:08:48.980 what the one thing

01:08:49.620 we're not talking about is.

01:08:51.000 Head on over

01:08:51.680 to triggerpod.co.uk

01:08:53.420 where we ask Graham

01:08:54.280 your questions.

01:08:54.980 When a joke offends,

01:08:57.980 who owns the problem nowadays?

01:08:59.480 The comedian,

01:09:00.200 the audience,

01:09:00.700 or the culture

01:09:01.200 that's lost its sense of proportion?

01:09:24.980 Getting ready for a game

01:09:30.900 means being ready for anything.

01:09:32.760 Like packing a spare stick.

01:09:34.500 I like to be prepared.

01:09:36.140 That's why I remember

01:09:36.960 988,

01:09:38.080 Canada's Suicide Crisis Helpline.

01:09:40.020 It's good to know,

01:09:41.020 just in case.

01:09:42.200 Anyone can call or text

01:09:43.480 for free confidential support

01:09:44.980 from a trained responder,

01:09:46.440 anytime.

01:09:47.640 988 Suicide Crisis Helpline

01:09:49.440 is funded by the government

01:09:50.440 in Canada.

01:09:50.920 Canada's Suicide Crisis Helpline

TRIGGERnometry - November 30, 2025

Graham Linehan： Arrested for Trans Tweets

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