TRIGGERnometry - Grooming Gang Survivor Tells Her Story

00:00:00.000 I was 14.

00:00:03.220 How many abusers did you have?

00:00:05.000 Over 100.

00:00:05.880 They get you that drunk, like you pass out.

00:00:07.840 I remember them seven men taking on turns with me.

00:00:10.080 The ones that I'm scared of are the ones that I don't remember.

00:00:12.600 You got arrested for inciting sexual activity?

00:00:14.980 Yeah.

00:00:15.580 I stood trial with both the adults, and yeah,

00:00:18.080 and I got sentenced with them and everything.

00:00:19.740 I actually went to jail and put on a sex offenders register.

00:00:23.440 I spent my 18th birthday in jail.

00:00:25.740 I missed my auntie's funeral in jail.

00:00:27.320 I lost a lot of my life.

00:00:35.340 I lost my childhood, obviously, due to the abuse.

00:00:39.620 They have sacrificed children like Jade

00:00:41.860 on the altar of political correctness.

00:00:44.620 It's not just the perpetrators that have done this to me.

00:00:47.160 It's the police, it's social services, it's the court.

00:00:50.260 People that sent me to jail, it's all of them.

00:00:54.860 Maggie, Oliver and Jade, welcome to the show.

00:00:57.140 Maggie, welcome back.

00:00:58.220 You're, of course, the police whistleblower who's done excellent work exposing the grooming gangs.

00:01:03.860 Jade, you're someone who's a survivor.

00:01:05.640 We want to talk to both of you about different aspects of this,

00:01:08.340 but let's start with you, Jade.

00:01:09.400 Just tell us your story and what happened to you, how it happened.

00:01:13.080 I was 14.

00:01:16.080 It started when I was 14.

00:01:17.700 My dad took me on a drug deal with him.

00:01:20.080 That's where I met my main perpetrator.

00:01:21.660 And then it just went from there.

00:01:25.000 He would pick me up, take me to his house.

00:01:28.440 It would be all fun and games at first.

00:01:30.420 It would be, I'll buy you cigarettes, I'll take you to school, I'll pick you up from school.

00:01:35.460 I will buy you alcohol.

00:01:37.800 Let's come to a house party.

00:01:40.420 It would be absolutely the most, when you're in a care home and you've got no one,

00:01:45.640 that was like the best thing ever.

00:01:47.600 House parties, attention, alcohol, fags, music.

00:01:51.380 It was all fun.

00:01:52.620 And then it would last.

00:01:53.340 Fags for our American viewers.

00:01:54.600 Yeah, so it would all be fun until they get you into this state where you trust them.

00:02:07.200 And then they'll make you believe that it's okay to then sleep with their brother.

00:02:11.720 If you love me, if you trust me, sleep with them.

00:02:14.600 I bought you a bottle of alcohol.

00:02:16.140 You've got to sleep with them.

00:02:18.260 And it will just get worse and worse through that.

00:02:21.900 Like, yeah, it'll just get worse.

00:02:26.100 But it's not just, with me, it weren't just that one group.

00:02:29.780 Like, we'll walk down the road and it'll be their Eid celebration.

00:02:34.640 And they'll be driving around in hire cars.

00:02:37.200 We'll be walking down the road and all you'd hear is them shouting your name walking up the road.

00:02:41.880 And I've had situations where I've been invited to go to Asda, to go shopping with them.

00:02:47.580 I've said no and they've gotten out the car and beaten me up.

00:02:50.040 So it's like the next time they pull you up and say, Jade, get in the car, you're going to get in the car.

00:02:55.880 Because you'll get beaten up otherwise.

00:02:58.880 So that went really quick from me and them.

00:03:04.100 So how long does this, like, love bombing bit last until they actually start being abusive?

00:03:08.960 Actually, they'll be nice to you for about a month and then they'll gain your trust.

00:03:14.100 But when you're, as I said, vulnerable girls, like I had a dad that didn't look after me and then went into care.

00:03:19.180 So it was, I craved that love and attention.

00:03:23.120 Like when anyone would want to give me love and attention, I'd crave it.

00:03:28.400 In a care home, they're not allowed to hug you and give you that affection in the care home when you're upset.

00:03:33.960 Because they don't want to be accused eventually of sexual abuse or anything from giving you affection.

00:03:40.380 So you go out and you crave that affection.

00:03:43.140 Of course.

00:03:43.600 In a care home, I would say if you're American viewers, you know, it's when a child is taken out of the family and put into the care of the state.

00:03:54.040 But the state doesn't care.

00:03:56.420 And, you know, the staff there, even if you get a good member of staff, they are not allowed to hug one of the children.

00:04:02.620 So, you know, a 12, 13-year-old child, 11-year-old child wants physical contact.

00:04:07.640 And the predators, the child rapists, they know that these children are very vulnerable.

00:04:14.140 And that's why they're targeted, like Jade was.

00:04:17.660 So there's going to be a lot of people who are listening to this, Jade, who's like, you've mentioned your father, but you haven't mentioned your mother.

00:04:24.580 Where was your mum in all of this?

00:04:25.620 My mum, she was in a domestic relationship and I did like a new partner.

00:04:30.200 So, and I was a daddy's girl and I just craved my dad and wanted to go and live with my dad.

00:04:33.520 And her thinking my dad was a good person for me to live with, turns out he wasn't when I actually moved in with him.

00:04:41.780 And so then you're in a care home.

00:04:43.660 I put myself into care, yeah.

00:04:45.060 So you put yourself...

00:04:46.280 Yeah, I rang social services and said, I couldn't live with my dad anymore, can I go to care?

00:04:51.400 OK.

00:04:52.040 And because I was on child protection living with my dad, due to him being a heroin addict.

00:04:57.180 So they just took me into care.

00:04:58.420 So it was a process of a month and you were 14 years old.

00:05:04.560 And what effect did that have on you psychologically and physically?

00:05:09.920 At the time, it was horrible because the first time I got sexually assaulted was in 2008.

00:05:17.180 Me and my friend was in a house party.

00:05:20.260 Both got abused, both went to the police station.

00:05:22.740 They took our DNA, they took our clothes, swabs, everything.

00:05:26.660 My friend got bullied to drop in the charge.

00:05:32.380 Bullied by whom?

00:05:33.700 By the perpetrator.

00:05:34.860 Perpetrator, yeah.

00:05:36.040 Got bullied by him to drop the charge.

00:05:38.060 So she dropped the charge, which then had all of ours dropped...

00:05:41.460 had mine and hers dropped out due to insufficient...

00:05:45.800 Evidence?

00:05:46.240 Evidence, yeah.

00:05:47.560 And then she ended up actually going to jail for lying to the court for being abused.

00:05:53.240 And that was in 2008.

00:05:54.580 And then my social worker took me into McDonald's and sat down and asked me if I was prostituting myself for drugs and alcohol.

00:06:02.420 14 years old.

00:06:03.160 At 14 years old, asked me if I was prostituting myself for drugs and alcohol.

00:06:06.540 So when you go to the police and they don't believe you, and then social services blame you for being a prostitute,

00:06:13.100 you don't...

00:06:14.140 You start believing it.

00:06:15.240 You start believing that yourself.

00:06:16.680 So even though you're out there being abused and you know what you're going through ain't right,

00:06:20.380 when nobody believes you, you don't cry out for help that much anymore.

00:06:23.120 You just hold it.

00:06:25.440 I've held it.

00:06:26.300 I've held...

00:06:26.960 I didn't ever go...

00:06:27.740 I had seven men in the taxi base take it in turns on me when I was that drunk throwing up in the toilet.

00:06:32.700 I couldn't do anything about it.

00:06:34.220 Seven men.

00:06:35.060 And I couldn't ever tell anyone about it.

00:06:37.380 Because no one believed me.

00:06:39.720 There was a time I woke up in McDonald's, not in my clothes.

00:06:43.280 Knickers inside out, upside down.

00:06:45.080 And in my friend's clothes, I found my friend in a house in a bath wearing my clothes.

00:06:50.340 And it was like, I don't know how I woke up in McDonald's.

00:06:53.300 I don't know how I got undressed.

00:06:54.640 I don't know how I got dressed in somebody else's clothes.

00:06:57.020 So it makes you think, who dressed me?

00:06:58.360 Who undressed me?

00:06:59.580 That's how drunk they get you.

00:07:01.260 They get you that drunk.

00:07:02.260 You pass out.

00:07:03.280 And then it's like, what's happened?

00:07:06.520 I remember them seven men taking it on turns with me.

00:07:09.560 So it's...

00:07:11.480 The ones that I'm scared of are the ones that I don't remember.

00:07:13.840 Yeah.

00:07:14.880 And because it's...

00:07:16.200 Yeah, they take you to hotel rooms, get you that drunk.

00:07:19.160 I've woke up in a state, naked, that I ran straight out the hotel.

00:07:23.300 Running up the road, naked, out the hotel room, trying to scream for help.

00:07:26.460 And they've jumped straight in the car and forced me in the car again.

00:07:30.280 And listening to this story, which is horrific, it makes me think,

00:07:35.120 where were the people in the care home?

00:07:39.140 Where were the people who were meant to be safeguarding?

00:07:41.800 Because what people don't understand is that every single person

00:07:45.320 who works with children, as I used to do as a teacher,

00:07:48.740 you were taught about safeguarding.

00:07:50.340 You were taught about how to spot signs if a child is being abused,

00:07:54.220 either physically or sexually.

00:07:56.680 How did this not get picked up?

00:07:59.320 I've just recently got my care files, and it is appalling.

00:08:02.860 It is actually disgusting what are in them files.

00:08:06.120 I've gone into my care home with love bites all over my neck

00:08:08.920 and stated that I got pinned down by a group of men.

00:08:12.640 That's where I got it from, and they've done nothing.

00:08:14.440 They didn't call the police or anything.

00:08:15.460 They just write it on a piece of paper and put it in my files.

00:08:18.340 At the age of 15, I've come running home,

00:08:20.740 saying that I've just had sex with a 21-year-old.

00:08:24.000 They've written it on a piece of paper and put it in a file,

00:08:25.580 didn't call the police.

00:08:26.320 I've come home with a black eye, got beaten up on the file.

00:08:32.500 Literally, I've got on the file literally one short statement.

00:08:35.340 Jade has made an allegation against a drunk man.

00:08:37.420 No further action.

00:08:38.120 They never took any of us serious.

00:08:42.100 And it was like, where because I was, in their eyes,

00:08:44.480 the naughty child that kept running away from my care home?

00:08:46.620 It was like, where because I kept running away,

00:08:50.960 and I kept going to it, it was like, that's what I wanted.

00:08:53.180 I kept going back to them.

00:08:54.180 I kept, no, it's not.

00:08:55.360 If I didn't go back, I would get a picture sent to my phone

00:08:57.620 of my dad begging on the street,

00:08:59.240 telling me they're going to kill my dad next time if I don't come.

00:09:02.680 Or I'll get battered, as I said.

00:09:04.400 They'll pull up beside me.

00:09:05.700 If I don't get in the car, they'll come out,

00:09:07.060 get out of the car and beat me up.

00:09:09.880 So it's like you had no choice.

00:09:11.820 Yeah.

00:09:12.980 Did you ever try to, other than that one,

00:09:16.620 the first time when you went to the police?

00:09:18.340 Did you ever, or did you just at that point

00:09:19.940 decide there's no point?

00:09:20.680 No, I've done another one,

00:09:22.680 and I got bullied by him and his wife.

00:09:24.800 They drove me to the police station,

00:09:26.640 and I got arrested for wasting police time.

00:09:29.380 You got arrested for wasting police time

00:09:31.000 because you withdrew the allegation?

00:09:32.280 Because I withdrew the allegation.

00:09:33.980 But I got bullied for about three months

00:09:36.180 by him and his wife.

00:09:37.780 So these guys are married?

00:09:39.800 Yeah, married kids.

00:09:42.320 What, does their wife know what's going on?

00:09:44.420 Well, yeah, I got bullied by one of them.

00:09:47.260 You got bullied by the wife?

00:09:48.460 I got bullied, yeah.

00:09:49.120 When I made the allegation of rape

00:09:50.700 against the perpetrator,

00:09:53.140 and he took me to his house,

00:09:55.040 and him and his wife,

00:09:56.460 him and his wife, they'll drive past me,

00:09:58.920 they'll put me in a car.

00:10:00.300 I had, there was no choice.

00:10:01.280 I had to withdraw it.

00:10:02.740 And you say bullied,

00:10:04.260 and I think I know what you mean,

00:10:06.880 but let's delve into it.

00:10:08.500 What do you mean by the term bullied?

00:10:10.740 They'll intimidate me.

00:10:11.940 They'll threaten me.

00:10:13.900 Like, they'll drive past my school.

00:10:15.640 They'll be waiting outside my school.

00:10:17.180 When I come out of school,

00:10:17.900 they'll be sitting there spying on me,

00:10:20.040 driving behind me up the road.

00:10:22.480 I'll get text messages.

00:10:23.980 To the point that it was like,

00:10:24.980 I'm just going to do this.

00:10:26.440 I'm just going to do this.

00:10:27.340 Because even though my dad put me

00:10:29.860 what he put me through,

00:10:30.740 he's still my dad,

00:10:31.440 and I'll do everything to protect him.

00:10:32.960 I would never let anyone hurt my dad

00:10:35.520 because I didn't follow through

00:10:36.640 with what you want me to do.

00:10:38.180 And where were the teachers in all of this?

00:10:40.200 Because they must have known.

00:10:41.540 They would know.

00:10:42.740 You would be a child at risk,

00:10:43.960 as it's called,

00:10:44.820 well, during my time of education.

00:10:46.740 I went to a high Asian community school,

00:10:48.460 which most of them don't believe it's true.

00:10:53.660 Say that again.

00:10:54.580 Us white girls,

00:10:56.020 we used to get called the white hoes.

00:10:58.480 We used to get called,

00:11:00.260 I don't know if I'm allowed to say this.

00:11:01.200 You're allowed to say anything you want.

00:11:02.140 We used to get called Paki-bashers

00:11:03.940 by white people.

00:11:06.560 Just so people understand,

00:11:09.120 if you complained about the fact

00:11:11.020 that you were being sexually abused

00:11:12.380 by a Pakistani man,

00:11:14.360 you would be basically called racist, effectively.

00:11:16.660 That's what they're saying, right?

00:11:17.740 Yeah, or we'll be the slags.

00:11:19.940 We're the ones that got drunk

00:11:21.080 and let it happen.

00:11:22.020 Right.

00:11:23.180 That was the main one.

00:11:24.360 We was drunk and let it happen.

00:11:25.740 And with your school,

00:11:26.860 you're saying because it was minority white,

00:11:30.160 people like you wouldn't be taken seriously at all?

00:11:33.320 Yeah, no.

00:11:34.880 Wow.

00:11:35.340 They were all family members.

00:11:36.140 What about teachers?

00:11:37.600 No, no one.

00:11:38.400 No one took anything serious.

00:11:40.440 Really?

00:11:40.920 Yeah, literally nobody took me serious at all.

00:11:42.940 I got the blame for everything.

00:11:44.340 And actually, the key point is that Jade,

00:11:47.280 another key point is that Jade was on

00:11:48.920 the child protection register.

00:11:50.720 So it's not just teachers were aware.

00:11:54.140 Social services were aware.

00:11:55.280 The police were aware.

00:11:56.520 The police put me on police protection.

00:11:57.720 The police themselves put me on police protection

00:12:00.300 untold times for being high risk of sexual exploitation.

00:12:05.680 This was known by everybody officially.

00:12:09.800 And Jade is one child of thousands like Jade.

00:12:15.300 Just say that again, Maggie,

00:12:17.040 because it might have got lost.

00:12:18.480 And I think this is an important question

00:12:20.260 for people watching this,

00:12:21.540 because your story is horrific.

00:12:23.980 Like what you're telling us is just mind boggling.

00:12:26.800 No one can imagine, actually, how terrible what it is.

00:12:30.940 But you're saying this is actually normal.

00:12:34.500 You know, my journey of the past 20 years,

00:12:37.220 I've lost count of the number of children like Jade,

00:12:40.560 who I have spoken to,

00:12:42.180 and that we in the foundation have tried to support.

00:12:46.160 And what it shows is that this was not a mistake.

00:12:50.560 This is systemic neglect of vulnerable children

00:12:55.600 who have nobody fighting their corner.

00:12:58.380 Jade and thousands of other children

00:13:00.740 were and are on what's called in England

00:13:03.920 a child protection register.

00:13:05.520 And that means that they are assessed as being at high risk.

00:13:09.960 Now, it could be at risk of neglect.

00:13:12.220 It could be at risk of violence.

00:13:14.180 It could be at risk of sexual exploitation.

00:13:16.500 Jade was on there for much of that.

00:13:21.000 But the sexual exploitation was a key part

00:13:24.160 that everybody knew was happening,

00:13:26.620 and nobody took any action.

00:13:29.760 And why not?

00:13:30.760 If you're on this register,

00:13:32.200 presumably that is done so that you're protected.

00:13:34.720 Supposed to be.

00:13:35.280 Right?

00:13:35.540 So why did that not happen?

00:13:38.280 Because the system is fucked, basically.

00:13:41.580 Yeah.

00:13:41.960 They don't care.

00:13:43.180 They do not care.

00:13:44.900 They're literally,

00:13:45.460 I believe they're all in it for themselves.

00:13:47.120 They really don't care about us.

00:13:49.020 I mean, I always say,

00:13:50.560 children like Jade have got nobody fighting their corner.

00:13:54.760 Hmm.

00:13:55.640 If this was Keir Starmer's daughter,

00:13:57.660 or it was Boris Johnson's daughter,

00:13:59.780 do you honestly think we would have had decades

00:14:02.160 with children in care or in difficult home lives

00:14:07.440 being neglected in this way

00:14:09.040 that their rapists would not have been dealt with?

00:14:12.080 Hmm.

00:14:12.760 They've made decisions because, you know,

00:14:15.100 those in authority couldn't be asked to act.

00:14:19.120 They wouldn't put the money into protecting.

00:14:21.220 They wouldn't put them in a secure accommodation

00:14:23.720 when men were picking them up outside the children's home

00:14:26.620 to rape them on a daily basis.

00:14:28.320 In England now, in the UK,

00:14:30.720 it's very well known that this is true.

00:14:34.040 It's a fact, and it's not an exaggeration.

00:14:38.080 We've now got awareness.

00:14:39.720 But children like Jade are living with the consequences

00:14:43.540 of that neglect for the rest of their lives.

00:14:45.780 And even now, we've got people in authority

00:14:48.440 like Keir Starmer wriggling and saying,

00:14:51.400 you know, people like me and like Jade,

00:14:53.060 we're far-right extremists for daring to speak out.

00:14:55.760 But it's children's lives that are destroyed

00:14:59.020 and, you know, Jade wasn't an isolated case

00:15:02.820 and it wasn't a hidden abuse.

00:15:04.800 It was known to everybody who legally had care of her.

00:15:11.220 I've had my leave-in-care worker

00:15:12.660 even message me on Facebook recently

00:15:14.560 saying that I should sue the local authorities

00:15:16.500 because they neglected me.

00:15:18.940 Well, that sounds like the very minimum.

00:15:20.700 Yeah, that's the minimum, yeah,

00:15:21.920 because I actually went to jail with perpetrators.

00:15:26.100 You went to jail?

00:15:27.180 I went to jail with perpetrators.

00:15:29.880 Me and a girl from my care home,

00:15:31.220 we went to a house party.

00:15:33.020 We both got abused that night.

00:15:35.280 Obviously, I don't go to the police

00:15:37.160 because they don't believe me.

00:15:39.020 She did.

00:15:39.860 And me and four perpetrators got arrested.

00:15:47.020 I just want to clarify something.

00:15:50.660 Two weeks before that, Jade was a child.

00:15:54.100 Yeah, sorry.

00:15:54.820 So 18 days before I got arrested, sorry,

00:15:57.660 I got put on police protection.

00:15:59.200 So I got put on police protection

00:16:00.520 for being high-risk sexual exploitation.

00:16:03.320 18 days later,

00:16:04.100 I got arrested for being a perpetrator.

00:16:07.720 And I was 15 and then 16.

00:16:10.640 The only difference was her birthday came.

00:16:12.540 Yeah, so like,

00:16:14.180 after I turned 16,

00:16:15.340 it was like all of me being a victim

00:16:16.780 didn't matter.

00:16:18.820 Didn't matter.

00:16:19.620 And what were you the perpetrator of?

00:16:22.360 Taking a girl out with me.

00:16:25.100 She wasn't a perpetrator.

00:16:27.160 Yeah, basically what they're saying is

00:16:29.280 that I took a girl out to get abused.

00:16:32.360 So you were getting arrested

00:16:34.220 because you and your friend

00:16:35.960 went to a house party.

00:16:37.320 By the way, for listeners,

00:16:38.260 she's using inverted commas

00:16:39.400 every time she says house party.

00:16:41.240 And you then effectively got arrested

00:16:43.780 for putting her in that position.

00:16:47.340 Yeah, it was called inciting sexual activity.

00:16:51.480 You got arrested for inciting sexual activity.

00:16:53.960 Yeah.

00:16:54.380 With four men.

00:16:55.560 Yeah.

00:16:55.860 So the 16-year-old gets arrested with four?

00:16:58.180 With four adult men.

00:16:59.500 I think what I want to clarify

00:17:02.320 is that the children are going

00:17:03.800 to these sex parties every night.

00:17:08.720 Children like Jade.

00:17:09.960 And the way this kind of abuse happens

00:17:12.360 is one child goes with another child,

00:17:14.340 goes with another child.

00:17:15.200 Because actually, you know,

00:17:17.020 the only chance Jade has

00:17:18.860 of not getting raped

00:17:19.740 is if there's another person there

00:17:21.260 who will be raped.

00:17:22.040 But they go together as friends.

00:17:24.540 Nobody acts until

00:17:27.000 while they're a victim as a child.

00:17:29.320 But as soon as they become 16,

00:17:32.040 there is a perception

00:17:33.120 that then they are an adult,

00:17:34.940 even though the law says

00:17:36.080 they're a child up to the age of 18.

00:17:38.040 And then by arresting Jade

00:17:40.020 and prosecuting her,

00:17:42.420 it means that all of that abuse

00:17:44.620 and the investigation

00:17:45.660 into what happened to her

00:17:47.020 doesn't have to be dealt with.

00:17:48.660 But the reality is that

00:17:50.220 nothing happened

00:17:50.940 between the day before

00:17:52.400 her 16th birthday,

00:17:54.080 nothing different,

00:17:55.300 and the day after

00:17:57.400 was exactly the same.

00:17:58.700 But the element of not protecting her

00:18:01.800 falls away.

00:18:04.900 And then it's easy to treat

00:18:06.980 a child as a perpetrator.

00:18:09.400 Do you know...

00:18:10.520 Does that make sense?

00:18:11.280 That makes...

00:18:11.820 It makes complete sense.

00:18:13.060 The thing to me that,

00:18:14.460 again, as somebody

00:18:15.100 who's worked with children,

00:18:16.560 that makes this even more heinous

00:18:18.680 is the fact that

00:18:20.680 you went through

00:18:21.420 these horrendous experiences,

00:18:23.700 these horrendous experiences

00:18:25.200 when you were a child.

00:18:27.020 And then the moment

00:18:28.260 you turned...

00:18:28.780 You became an adult

00:18:29.560 and inverted commas,

00:18:30.860 an adult,

00:18:31.420 which you weren't.

00:18:32.460 I've taught 16-year-olds.

00:18:33.680 16-year-olds are not adults.

00:18:34.940 No, they ain't.

00:18:36.040 And then they arrested you

00:18:37.900 and charged you.

00:18:40.000 So you became...

00:18:41.280 Not only were you a victim

00:18:42.620 of these awful men,

00:18:44.700 a victim of the system,

00:18:45.820 you then became a victim

00:18:47.240 of the criminal justice procedure.

00:18:50.180 That, to me, is evil.

00:18:52.800 It's evil.

00:18:53.580 I mean...

00:18:54.960 I can't even begin to comprehend

00:18:57.560 what that must have been like.

00:18:59.220 It has been horrible.

00:19:00.360 It has been...

00:19:01.140 When they arrested me

00:19:02.940 in my statement,

00:19:04.060 I stopped my...

00:19:04.740 I said...

00:19:05.360 I did go no comment once.

00:19:06.400 I named everyone

00:19:07.160 that I could name.

00:19:08.060 I stopped the interview

00:19:10.320 and took them to the house

00:19:11.200 that it happened in

00:19:12.140 because they said

00:19:13.380 it would go for me.

00:19:15.080 Yeah.

00:19:15.540 The two people

00:19:16.040 that I did name

00:19:16.740 didn't get charged.

00:19:19.460 And they said to me

00:19:21.160 that I would stand trial

00:19:21.880 on my own

00:19:22.420 because I was a juvenile.

00:19:24.160 I stood trial

00:19:24.880 with both the adults.

00:19:27.400 And, yeah,

00:19:28.040 and I got sentenced

00:19:28.600 with them and everything.

00:19:29.320 I actually went to jail

00:19:31.280 and put on

00:19:32.300 the sex offenders

00:19:32.740 register.

00:19:34.080 How long were you

00:19:34.740 in jail for?

00:19:35.500 They sentenced me

00:19:36.800 to two years

00:19:37.340 and I'd done 14 months.

00:19:39.160 And...

00:19:39.560 16 years old.

00:19:41.300 At 16, yeah.

00:19:42.880 And for those

00:19:44.380 people who don't...

00:19:46.300 who haven't got

00:19:46.900 experience

00:19:47.400 of the prison system,

00:19:48.540 if you go in

00:19:49.380 as a sex offender,

00:19:50.700 you are the lowest

00:19:51.740 of the low in prison

00:19:52.600 and you are actually

00:19:54.100 in great fiscal danger.

00:19:56.460 I got called a nonce

00:19:57.320 near enough every day

00:19:58.040 in there

00:19:58.360 when I was 17.

00:19:59.980 Do you know,

00:20:01.120 I spent my 18th birthday

00:20:02.840 in jail.

00:20:03.560 I missed my auntie's

00:20:04.340 funeral in jail.

00:20:08.060 Um...

00:20:08.540 I lost a lot

00:20:10.780 of my life.

00:20:18.160 I lost my childhood

00:20:20.200 obviously due to the abuse.

00:20:21.800 and then

00:20:22.720 being in jail

00:20:24.260 I had to grow up

00:20:25.560 because

00:20:26.120 I was in there

00:20:27.180 with brutal people

00:20:28.060 and me being

00:20:29.120 classed as a nonce

00:20:29.960 it was...

00:20:31.120 I had to do it.

00:20:32.680 I had to grow up

00:20:33.340 and then I'd become

00:20:34.300 a mum

00:20:34.700 really soon

00:20:35.580 after I got out

00:20:36.380 so

00:20:36.840 I haven't really...

00:20:41.860 I think it's really

00:20:43.240 brave and important

00:20:44.100 that you're coming

00:20:45.160 and telling a story,

00:20:46.100 Jade,

00:20:46.240 because what happened

00:20:47.200 to you is just

00:20:48.260 completely awful

00:20:49.660 and I think

00:20:50.260 the point that

00:20:51.320 Maggie

00:20:51.800 makes as well

00:20:52.360 which is

00:20:52.780 people like you

00:20:54.260 who are talking

00:20:55.400 about this

00:20:55.900 being smeared

00:20:56.760 and called

00:20:58.180 all sorts of names

00:20:59.120 when you're just

00:21:00.100 telling the truth

00:21:01.340 about what happened

00:21:02.060 to you

00:21:02.260 it's just

00:21:02.720 so awful.

00:21:04.600 I can't even

00:21:04.760 take my kids

00:21:05.280 on a school trip

00:21:06.060 because I'm

00:21:06.500 classed as a sex offender.

00:21:09.840 It honestly

00:21:11.140 breaks my heart

00:21:11.960 that the country

00:21:12.760 and those in power

00:21:13.880 and influence

00:21:14.940 allow this to happen

00:21:16.220 to generations

00:21:16.760 of children.

00:21:17.760 That's what keeps me going.

00:21:18.820 And it's like

00:21:19.880 18 years

00:21:20.600 I've been feeling

00:21:21.140 this pain

00:21:21.720 and 18 years

00:21:23.080 they've been laughing

00:21:23.680 walking down

00:21:24.200 the street

00:21:24.500 with their family.

00:21:26.940 And it's very

00:21:28.220 important for people

00:21:28.960 to realise as well

00:21:30.140 is that

00:21:31.240 you got put

00:21:32.100 in a youth offenders

00:21:32.940 institution

00:21:33.600 and in many ways

00:21:34.940 people don't

00:21:35.480 understand this

00:21:36.080 those youth offenders

00:21:37.280 institutions

00:21:37.840 are actually worse

00:21:38.880 than prison

00:21:39.460 because

00:21:40.700 there's far

00:21:42.360 more violence

00:21:43.140 in them.

00:21:43.580 so you must

00:21:45.100 have been terrified

00:21:45.920 every single day

00:21:47.180 of your life.

00:21:47.900 Yeah I'd find

00:21:48.520 girls in my cell

00:21:49.340 reading my paperwork

00:21:50.260 threatening me

00:21:52.100 when I go to chapel

00:21:53.140 that they were

00:21:53.640 going to beat me

00:21:54.080 up in chapel.

00:21:56.160 Yeah.

00:21:57.660 But I had to

00:21:58.420 I didn't do it

00:21:59.460 so I still walked

00:22:00.400 out of my cell

00:22:00.880 every day

00:22:01.280 with my head held high

00:22:02.160 but

00:22:03.020 it was a battle

00:22:04.360 every day.

00:22:06.180 Still is

00:22:06.700 to this day.

00:22:08.260 And

00:22:08.500 what about

00:22:10.200 the perpetrators

00:22:11.460 tell us a little

00:22:12.140 bit about

00:22:12.640 who they were

00:22:13.620 and anything

00:22:14.900 you want to share

00:22:15.580 with us.

00:22:16.640 They were taxis.

00:22:18.040 Taxi drivers.

00:22:18.740 Taxi drivers yeah.

00:22:20.340 Majority of them

00:22:21.140 were taxi drivers

00:22:21.840 from all different

00:22:23.020 bases

00:22:23.400 in the same town.

00:22:27.380 Yeah.

00:22:28.220 It was run

00:22:29.020 by the whole family

00:22:29.820 so it's just

00:22:30.820 a family of abusers

00:22:32.540 really.

00:22:33.940 They are

00:22:34.720 all

00:22:35.380 every single one

00:22:36.260 of them

00:22:36.480 are British

00:22:36.840 Pakistani men.

00:22:38.500 Every single

00:22:41.800 one of them

00:22:42.220 are older

00:22:42.660 older than 20

00:22:43.540 when you're

00:22:44.560 at the age of 14.

00:22:45.620 I think my oldest

00:22:46.460 would have been

00:22:47.260 about

00:22:47.660 in his 60s.

00:22:50.140 They would bring

00:22:50.540 their uncles

00:22:50.960 over from Pakistan.

00:22:53.700 I got taken

00:22:54.500 to Snappy Snaps

00:22:55.560 to have a photo

00:22:56.380 shoot with

00:22:57.020 one of the uncles

00:22:57.740 so he could take

00:22:58.840 the pictures

00:22:59.260 back to Pakistan

00:22:59.860 and show everyone

00:23:00.520 his English girlfriend.

00:23:04.540 And

00:23:05.020 I think it's

00:23:06.380 also important

00:23:07.060 because people

00:23:07.720 associate

00:23:08.660 grooming gangs

00:23:10.040 with towns

00:23:11.840 in the north

00:23:12.500 but you're not

00:23:13.580 from the north

00:23:14.320 you're from

00:23:14.900 High Wycombe.

00:23:15.780 Yeah.

00:23:17.280 When I think

00:23:18.040 of High Wycombe

00:23:18.620 I think of

00:23:19.260 Buckinghamshire

00:23:19.860 and for those

00:23:20.300 people listening

00:23:20.900 Buckinghamshire

00:23:21.540 is one of the

00:23:22.000 wealthiest counties

00:23:22.780 in the UK.

00:23:23.800 High Wycombe

00:23:24.260 is absolutely

00:23:25.960 vile.

00:23:26.640 It is full of them.

00:23:28.160 Since I've

00:23:29.140 come out and

00:23:29.520 spoken I have

00:23:30.320 had a good

00:23:31.820 lot of girls

00:23:32.860 shout out to me

00:23:34.020 from High Wycombe

00:23:34.560 saying thank you

00:23:35.260 to me for

00:23:35.540 speaking out

00:23:35.920 for them.

00:23:37.960 Yeah.

00:23:38.560 It is not

00:23:39.320 a nice area

00:23:39.880 at all.

00:23:41.280 And one of the

00:23:42.140 things I wanted

00:23:42.580 to ask you

00:23:43.060 we had another

00:23:44.240 survivor called

00:23:44.820 Dr. Ella Hill

00:23:45.440 I don't know

00:23:45.780 if you're

00:23:46.180 familiar with

00:23:46.800 her.

00:23:48.100 A very

00:23:48.500 long time ago

00:23:49.340 it's kind of

00:23:49.940 how we first

00:23:50.600 really became

00:23:51.140 aware of

00:23:51.500 this issue

00:23:51.860 and why we've

00:23:52.460 had a lot

00:23:52.900 of people

00:23:53.200 on to talk

00:23:53.700 about it

00:23:54.000 because that's

00:23:54.380 when we

00:23:54.660 really understood

00:23:55.380 the horrific

00:23:56.520 nature of

00:23:57.140 everything that

00:23:57.520 was going

00:23:57.820 on.

00:23:58.580 One of the

00:23:59.020 things that

00:23:59.400 she talked

00:23:59.860 about was

00:24:00.840 that it's

00:24:03.620 difficult to

00:24:04.100 talk about

00:24:04.540 because you

00:24:04.860 get called

00:24:05.420 all the names

00:24:05.960 and whatever

00:24:06.360 but I think

00:24:06.900 it's really

00:24:07.200 important to

00:24:07.680 talk about.

00:24:08.920 She was

00:24:09.440 talking about

00:24:09.940 the fact that

00:24:10.520 her abusers

00:24:11.580 were very

00:24:12.380 explicit in

00:24:13.440 the fact that

00:24:14.000 they were

00:24:14.380 abusing her

00:24:15.200 because of

00:24:16.680 her race

00:24:17.400 and because

00:24:18.160 she wasn't

00:24:18.900 Muslim etc.

00:24:20.080 Did you ever

00:24:20.680 get anything

00:24:21.500 like that?

00:24:23.500 Or did they

00:24:23.920 ever justify

00:24:24.580 why they were

00:24:25.280 doing it or

00:24:26.120 explain to you

00:24:27.120 why they were

00:24:27.940 entitled to

00:24:28.520 or anything

00:24:28.900 or was it

00:24:29.360 just

00:24:29.660 No, I

00:24:30.560 wouldn't say

00:24:30.980 they really

00:24:31.500 I'd get called

00:24:32.920 a white slug

00:24:33.540 all the time

00:24:34.200 or they would

00:24:34.860 ring me up

00:24:35.260 going, you

00:24:35.820 coming out

00:24:36.140 you white

00:24:36.460 bitch.

00:24:37.260 It was always

00:24:37.840 the white

00:24:38.880 would always

00:24:39.440 get brought

00:24:39.820 up into it

00:24:40.440 but I never

00:24:41.440 really

00:24:41.960 at that time

00:24:44.260 I didn't

00:24:44.520 really see it

00:24:45.060 as a race

00:24:45.500 thing but

00:24:46.020 now probably

00:24:47.820 Well, I'm

00:24:49.100 not trying to

00:24:49.520 put words in

00:24:50.180 I know you're

00:24:50.980 not but I'm

00:24:51.380 just saying

00:24:51.720 it is

00:24:52.420 majority

00:24:52.880 of the people

00:24:54.620 that I know

00:24:55.120 that have been

00:24:55.540 abused

00:24:56.040 aren't

00:24:57.040 Pakistani

00:24:57.580 girls

00:24:58.060 let's just

00:24:58.820 put it that

00:24:59.140 way.

00:24:59.540 But also

00:24:59.920 it's the fact

00:25:00.640 that they're

00:25:01.160 using your

00:25:02.200 race

00:25:02.840 in that way

00:25:04.320 implies that

00:25:05.320 there's some

00:25:05.720 kind of moral

00:25:06.280 judgment that's

00:25:06.880 being made

00:25:07.300 where like

00:25:07.840 you are

00:25:08.780 they're entitled

00:25:10.140 to do that

00:25:10.720 to you

00:25:11.040 do you see

00:25:11.360 what I'm

00:25:11.560 yeah

00:25:11.780 and it's more

00:25:14.000 like

00:25:14.400 even like

00:25:15.460 their family

00:25:15.880 members

00:25:16.300 and things

00:25:16.780 it'll be

00:25:17.920 because of

00:25:18.800 how we

00:25:19.080 dress

00:25:19.460 well if

00:25:22.020 your girls

00:25:22.500 aren't showing

00:25:22.900 their skin

00:25:23.340 the way

00:25:23.640 they do

00:25:24.000 what's that

00:25:25.160 gives you

00:25:25.560 the right

00:25:25.940 to abuse

00:25:26.360 us because

00:25:26.780 we show

00:25:27.160 our skin

00:25:27.580 that don't

00:25:28.560 mean

00:25:28.900 just because

00:25:31.280 we don't wear

00:25:32.340 the same

00:25:32.580 clothes you

00:25:32.920 do

00:25:33.180 don't mean

00:25:33.920 that gives

00:25:34.360 you the

00:25:34.620 right to

00:25:34.880 then abuse

00:25:35.260 us

00:25:35.600 of course

00:25:36.040 and the

00:25:37.920 thing that I

00:25:38.380 always found

00:25:38.900 horrifying about

00:25:39.680 this Jade

00:25:40.100 and you've

00:25:40.360 touched on it

00:25:40.900 a little bit

00:25:41.560 is the

00:25:43.500 people who

00:25:44.140 in that

00:25:44.600 community

00:25:44.960 who just

00:25:45.500 condoned it

00:25:46.220 and not only

00:25:46.760 condoned it

00:25:47.560 they covered

00:25:48.080 it up

00:25:48.520 yeah

00:25:48.820 I mean

00:25:50.640 it's just

00:25:51.560 mind boggling

00:25:52.220 you were saying

00:25:52.840 wives would

00:25:53.780 cover it up

00:25:54.280 girlfriends would

00:25:55.120 cover it up

00:25:55.740 yeah

00:25:55.800 all of them

00:25:56.960 I don't know

00:25:57.500 why or how

00:25:58.520 they do it

00:25:59.260 but they're all

00:26:00.060 just as bad

00:26:00.880 as each other

00:26:01.440 it's actually

00:26:02.400 disgusting

00:26:02.900 even in the

00:26:04.060 system

00:26:04.460 I don't

00:26:06.040 I had

00:26:07.280 I had sex

00:26:07.980 with this

00:26:08.340 with this

00:26:08.760 bloke

00:26:09.020 before I got

00:26:09.760 taken to

00:26:10.180 the woods

00:26:10.540 and it was

00:26:11.680 in the middle

00:26:12.900 of nowhere

00:26:13.280 and he took

00:26:14.760 me into the

00:26:15.160 middle of the

00:26:15.460 woods

00:26:15.700 a week later

00:26:16.960 I see him

00:26:17.360 walking down

00:26:17.880 High Wycombe High

00:26:18.600 Street in a

00:26:19.300 PCSO

00:26:19.700 uniform

00:26:20.520 yeah

00:26:21.940 and then after

00:26:23.360 me and him

00:26:23.780 clocked eyes

00:26:24.320 and then after

00:26:25.040 I never see him

00:26:25.620 again

00:26:25.900 so I don't

00:26:26.600 know if he

00:26:26.820 got a transfer

00:26:27.360 don't know if

00:26:28.200 he quit his job

00:26:28.820 but even people

00:26:30.760 in the police

00:26:31.500 I mean

00:26:34.100 through

00:26:34.540 people overseas

00:26:35.900 view as a

00:26:36.300 PCSO

00:26:36.760 is a

00:26:37.500 police

00:26:37.680 community

00:26:38.020 support

00:26:38.460 officer

00:26:38.740 it's a

00:26:39.100 level below

00:26:40.700 the police

00:26:41.300 officer

00:26:41.760 but there's

00:26:42.240 someone in

00:26:42.600 authority

00:26:43.020 that's supposed

00:26:43.600 to be

00:26:44.140 yeah so

00:26:44.820 they all know

00:26:45.780 about it

00:26:46.280 the police

00:26:47.320 are either

00:26:47.580 getting paid

00:26:48.080 off or they've

00:26:48.900 got them

00:26:49.260 in their

00:26:50.340 police force

00:26:50.920 same as

00:26:53.620 teachers in the

00:26:54.320 school I was at

00:26:54.940 they're all

00:26:55.400 related

00:26:55.820 was there anyone

00:26:58.720 who tried to

00:26:59.720 help

00:27:00.020 no

00:27:01.400 not at all

00:27:03.100 no

00:27:03.400 not in the

00:27:04.060 police

00:27:04.320 not in social

00:27:04.840 services

00:27:05.320 no

00:27:05.540 the police

00:27:05.760 sent me to

00:27:06.200 jail and

00:27:06.560 didn't believe

00:27:07.000 me

00:27:07.340 social services

00:27:08.260 all they done

00:27:08.760 was write it

00:27:09.460 on a piece of

00:27:09.860 paper and

00:27:10.500 didn't actually

00:27:11.120 go to the

00:27:12.360 police or do

00:27:13.000 anything for me

00:27:13.880 the only thing

00:27:15.680 that actually

00:27:16.120 helped me even

00:27:16.840 though it's the

00:27:17.660 worst experience

00:27:18.140 of my life

00:27:18.740 the only thing

00:27:19.540 that got me

00:27:19.940 away from it

00:27:20.480 all was going

00:27:21.280 to jail

00:27:21.700 because it got

00:27:22.660 me away from

00:27:23.140 it and they

00:27:23.600 I was locked

00:27:24.380 up so I

00:27:24.820 couldn't they

00:27:25.460 couldn't pick

00:27:25.840 me up and I

00:27:26.260 could run away

00:27:26.660 of them

00:27:27.060 do you know

00:27:27.800 what I mean

00:27:28.040 it was

00:27:28.740 that's what I

00:27:31.140 was going to

00:27:31.500 ask you

00:27:31.760 how did you

00:27:32.240 eventually get

00:27:32.940 out of it

00:27:33.500 going to jail

00:27:34.440 going to jail

00:27:35.000 and what

00:27:35.360 happened when

00:27:35.760 you came

00:27:36.040 out

00:27:36.280 I fell

00:27:37.280 pregnant

00:27:37.560 quite soon

00:27:38.180 so I

00:27:40.900 managed to

00:27:41.440 get away

00:27:41.720 from it

00:27:42.040 because I

00:27:42.620 had my

00:27:42.820 baby

00:27:43.080 that's

00:27:43.660 actually

00:27:43.860 really

00:27:44.100 typical

00:27:44.540 many of

00:27:45.760 the girls

00:27:47.800 that I've

00:27:48.660 known over

00:27:49.180 the past

00:27:49.660 15 years

00:27:50.300 20 years

00:27:50.940 their escape

00:27:52.480 route is

00:27:53.000 when they

00:27:53.600 get pregnant

00:27:54.100 and then

00:27:55.380 they have

00:27:56.040 a purpose

00:27:57.200 and it

00:27:58.860 gives you

00:27:59.740 a sense

00:28:00.540 of belonging

00:28:01.220 and you

00:28:02.860 can love

00:28:03.220 your baby

00:28:03.780 it kind of

00:28:05.260 removes the

00:28:05.740 vulnerability

00:28:06.160 and the

00:28:07.280 other side

00:28:07.800 is that

00:28:08.220 you are

00:28:08.580 getting older

00:28:09.380 these gangs

00:28:10.560 target very

00:28:11.780 young children

00:28:12.520 because by

00:28:13.900 the time

00:28:14.280 that child

00:28:14.740 knows that

00:28:15.240 they are

00:28:15.540 being sexually

00:28:16.160 abused and

00:28:16.760 raped

00:28:17.100 they're already

00:28:18.860 in too deep

00:28:19.660 they carry the

00:28:20.360 shame

00:28:20.800 the authorities

00:28:22.080 are not

00:28:22.480 stepping in

00:28:23.140 once you get

00:28:23.820 to a certain

00:28:24.240 age they're

00:28:24.560 not interested

00:28:25.040 in you

00:28:25.460 if you're

00:28:26.580 walking down

00:28:26.940 the road

00:28:27.260 wearing school

00:28:27.680 uniform

00:28:28.040 or looking

00:28:29.920 young and

00:28:30.840 vulnerable

00:28:31.140 they'll scream

00:28:31.600 and shout

00:28:31.920 you

00:28:32.180 as soon

00:28:32.700 as you

00:28:32.920 hit like

00:28:33.200 21

00:28:33.580 and actually

00:28:34.140 got some

00:28:34.460 age to

00:28:34.780 you

00:28:34.920 it is crazy

00:28:37.640 the attention

00:28:39.260 you get

00:28:39.780 when you're

00:28:40.140 14

00:28:40.460 to the

00:28:40.920 attention

00:28:41.220 you get

00:28:41.580 when you're

00:28:41.820 an adult

00:28:42.260 by these

00:28:42.900 sort of

00:28:43.120 people

00:28:43.480 so they're

00:28:44.860 deliberately

00:28:45.380 targeting

00:28:46.000 vulnerable

00:28:46.440 children

00:28:47.000 100%

00:28:47.800 even after

00:28:50.400 I was still

00:28:51.220 living in

00:28:51.700 High Wycombe

00:28:52.220 with my

00:28:53.500 babies

00:28:53.960 but I'd

00:28:54.920 walk past

00:28:55.340 my rapists

00:28:55.800 every day

00:28:56.280 they'll be

00:28:57.000 walking out

00:28:57.440 the shop

00:28:57.780 going

00:28:58.000 hi

00:28:58.300 it's my

00:28:58.680 Jade

00:28:59.060 and I'm

00:28:59.900 like

00:29:00.080 I nearly

00:29:00.480 killed

00:29:00.720 myself

00:29:01.120 and that's

00:29:01.700 why I moved

00:29:02.300 out of

00:29:02.540 Wycombe

00:29:02.880 because I

00:29:03.920 couldn't

00:29:04.200 physically walk

00:29:04.740 past them

00:29:05.120 every day

00:29:05.620 it took me to

00:29:07.380 have two kids

00:29:08.000 and nearly kill

00:29:08.480 myself to get

00:29:09.100 me away from

00:29:09.580 them all

00:29:09.920 because it

00:29:11.360 because it was

00:29:11.500 traumatising

00:29:12.680 every day

00:29:13.140 every day of

00:29:13.220 my life

00:29:13.480 walking to

00:29:13.860 the shop

00:29:14.220 they'll

00:29:14.440 drive past

00:29:14.960 you

00:29:15.240 still

00:29:15.860 preying

00:29:16.240 on you

00:29:16.780 they'll

00:29:17.500 just

00:29:17.660 traumatising

00:29:18.320 you

00:29:18.440 every day

00:29:19.040 I mean

00:29:20.240 for me

00:29:21.100 the abusers

00:29:22.960 themselves

00:29:23.300 they need

00:29:24.400 to be dealt

00:29:24.780 with

00:29:25.080 but the

00:29:26.120 neglect of

00:29:26.580 the authorities

00:29:27.160 that for me

00:29:28.460 is what's

00:29:28.860 driven me

00:29:29.500 because

00:29:30.340 those in

00:29:32.360 power

00:29:32.760 police

00:29:33.380 social services

00:29:34.080 they know

00:29:34.740 what's going

00:29:35.300 on

00:29:35.600 and by

00:29:36.180 not acting

00:29:37.000 they're

00:29:37.560 sentencing

00:29:38.100 another child

00:29:38.980 to what

00:29:39.680 Jade went

00:29:40.100 through

00:29:40.440 Maggie

00:29:41.220 just

00:29:41.460 explain that

00:29:42.840 a little bit

00:29:43.200 more

00:29:43.580 what do you

00:29:44.440 mean when

00:29:44.760 they say

00:29:45.020 they know

00:29:45.440 what's going

00:29:45.900 on

00:29:46.200 that these

00:29:46.940 were not

00:29:47.380 mistakes

00:29:48.020 these were

00:29:48.840 systemic

00:29:49.460 failures

00:29:50.040 and I

00:29:50.660 believe

00:29:51.060 fully

00:29:51.560 from the

00:29:53.080 top level

00:29:53.620 of government

00:29:54.080 that they

00:29:54.900 were telling

00:29:55.860 police forces

00:29:56.580 not to do

00:29:57.820 anything about

00:29:58.400 these gangs

00:29:59.020 and nobody

00:30:00.320 will convince

00:30:01.000 me any

00:30:01.360 different

00:30:01.740 this is

00:30:04.280 decades of

00:30:05.100 neglect

00:30:05.560 you know

00:30:06.840 you only

00:30:07.220 have to

00:30:07.560 look back

00:30:08.060 at

00:30:08.240 there are

00:30:08.800 some

00:30:09.000 people

00:30:09.320 who have

00:30:09.560 spoken

00:30:09.840 out

00:30:10.180 you know

00:30:11.080 I remember

00:30:11.720 one of the

00:30:12.220 first was

00:30:12.560 Anne Cryer

00:30:13.200 you know

00:30:14.180 she was

00:30:14.920 an MP

00:30:15.640 and was

00:30:16.220 calling out

00:30:16.920 in parliament

00:30:17.440 about Pakistani

00:30:18.520 abusers

00:30:20.380 in Keithley

00:30:21.240 in Yorkshire

00:30:22.640 she was accused

00:30:23.760 of being a

00:30:24.200 racist

00:30:24.520 she kind of

00:30:25.400 was haunted

00:30:26.400 out of

00:30:26.820 parliament

00:30:27.240 nobody

00:30:28.760 wanted to

00:30:29.380 act

00:30:29.820 so

00:30:30.820 why

00:30:32.280 why

00:30:34.140 and they've

00:30:35.220 abandoned

00:30:36.800 generations

00:30:37.440 of children

00:30:37.940 to

00:30:38.360 the trauma

00:30:39.360 that Jade

00:30:39.900 is just

00:30:40.420 beginning to

00:30:41.140 recover from

00:30:41.760 but you can

00:30:42.140 see

00:30:42.520 it will

00:30:43.220 never go

00:30:43.720 completely

00:30:44.220 but as a

00:30:46.840 country

00:30:47.300 it's the

00:30:48.260 duty

00:30:48.660 of police

00:30:50.080 and social

00:30:51.740 workers

00:30:52.240 to protect

00:30:53.160 children

00:30:53.600 how much

00:30:54.600 of this

00:30:54.920 do you

00:30:55.200 think

00:30:55.500 Jade

00:30:56.440 you mentioned

00:30:56.960 this

00:30:57.260 that you

00:30:57.660 were like

00:30:58.020 the problem

00:30:58.500 child

00:30:59.040 you'd run

00:30:59.860 away

00:31:00.320 you come

00:31:01.200 from a

00:31:01.740 difficult

00:31:02.340 family

00:31:02.900 background

00:31:03.380 etc

00:31:03.760 how much

00:31:04.840 of this

00:31:05.220 is just

00:31:05.780 it's easier

00:31:06.260 to blame

00:31:06.720 it on a

00:31:07.280 problem

00:31:08.040 child

00:31:08.540 than to

00:31:09.040 actually

00:31:09.400 deal

00:31:09.800 with the

00:31:10.120 fact

00:31:10.340 that there's

00:31:10.760 a complex

00:31:11.320 crime

00:31:11.780 involving

00:31:12.340 numerous

00:31:13.420 people

00:31:14.160 etc

00:31:15.200 and it's

00:31:16.540 just easier

00:31:16.980 to just

00:31:17.360 oh you

00:31:17.620 blame it

00:31:17.900 on the

00:31:18.080 kid

00:31:18.240 and you

00:31:18.500 kind of

00:31:18.780 move on

00:31:19.200 is that

00:31:20.380 what was

00:31:20.680 going on

00:31:21.080 here as

00:31:21.360 well

00:31:21.540 yeah

00:31:22.120 I don't

00:31:22.620 think

00:31:22.800 that that's

00:31:23.360 possible

00:31:23.720 now

00:31:23.980 because

00:31:24.340 the country

00:31:26.120 now

00:31:26.500 you know

00:31:26.900 I've been

00:31:27.220 speaking about

00:31:27.660 this for

00:31:27.840 15 years

00:31:28.560 the country

00:31:29.480 the public

00:31:30.560 now know

00:31:31.400 that this

00:31:32.080 is a

00:31:33.100 real problem

00:31:34.360 and that

00:31:35.700 it has

00:31:36.200 been a

00:31:36.940 systemic

00:31:37.260 failure

00:31:37.680 so you

00:31:38.760 can't blame

00:31:39.420 children now

00:31:40.160 for their

00:31:40.760 own abuse

00:31:41.320 but I've

00:31:41.720 always felt

00:31:42.240 you couldn't

00:31:42.900 but they

00:31:43.900 got away

00:31:44.340 with it

00:31:44.620 for so

00:31:44.980 long

00:31:45.380 by hiding

00:31:46.160 it

00:31:46.380 brushing it

00:31:46.840 under the

00:31:47.240 carpet

00:31:47.640 you know

00:31:48.580 children like

00:31:49.860 Jade don't

00:31:50.340 matter

00:31:50.660 and it's

00:31:51.080 as though

00:31:51.320 there was

00:31:51.560 collusion

00:31:52.140 from everybody

00:31:53.160 in those

00:31:53.820 positions

00:31:54.300 it's a lot

00:31:55.640 cheaper

00:31:56.000 to blame

00:31:57.060 a child

00:31:57.400 like Jade

00:31:58.080 than it

00:31:58.800 is to

00:31:59.300 prosecute

00:32:00.120 maybe

00:32:00.900 how many

00:32:01.600 abusers

00:32:02.180 did you

00:32:02.500 have

00:32:02.720 over a

00:32:03.320 hundred

00:32:03.540 you know

00:32:04.280 you prosecute

00:32:05.240 a hundred

00:32:05.580 men

00:32:05.960 you've got

00:32:07.660 complex

00:32:08.100 investigations

00:32:08.800 you've got

00:32:09.380 court costs

00:32:09.980 you've got

00:32:10.320 lawyers

00:32:10.700 you've got

00:32:11.100 they're not

00:32:11.720 going to do

00:32:12.180 that if they

00:32:12.640 can discredit

00:32:13.640 Jade

00:32:14.040 Jade will

00:32:14.520 never get

00:32:15.160 justice

00:32:15.540 for her

00:32:16.320 abuse

00:32:16.700 because I'm

00:32:17.460 a criminal

00:32:18.120 now

00:32:18.440 yeah

00:32:18.600 she's been

00:32:19.300 discredited

00:32:19.960 you know

00:32:20.340 if she ever

00:32:20.920 went to

00:32:21.240 court

00:32:21.460 they would

00:32:21.840 say that

00:32:22.320 she is

00:32:22.660 not a

00:32:23.320 credible

00:32:23.620 victim

00:32:24.100 witness

00:32:25.020 you know

00:32:25.700 so

00:32:26.540 have any

00:32:27.540 of them

00:32:27.980 men who

00:32:28.620 did this

00:32:29.280 to have

00:32:29.480 been prosecuted

00:32:30.100 no

00:32:30.340 none

00:32:31.340 none

00:32:31.700 and

00:32:32.700 the funny

00:32:33.380 thing is

00:32:33.760 now

00:32:34.060 the Thames

00:32:35.620 Valley Police

00:32:36.080 told the

00:32:36.400 journalist

00:32:36.660 that they

00:32:37.380 had no

00:32:37.700 acknowledgement

00:32:38.080 of me

00:32:38.540 Thames

00:32:39.400 Valley Police

00:32:39.780 turned up

00:32:40.040 at my

00:32:40.240 door the

00:32:40.480 other day

00:32:41.200 in my

00:32:42.200 help to

00:32:42.840 investigate

00:32:43.460 child sexual

00:32:43.980 exploitation

00:32:44.540 between 2008

00:32:45.720 and 2011

00:32:46.340 when it was

00:32:46.780 happening to

00:32:47.160 me

00:32:47.360 because they

00:32:48.260 have

00:32:48.620 information

00:32:50.000 that I've

00:32:50.460 got information

00:32:50.980 for them

00:32:51.480 that's

00:32:53.440 because of

00:32:53.900 the media

00:32:54.740 work

00:32:55.060 of course

00:32:55.560 so this

00:32:57.680 is why

00:32:57.960 I'm

00:32:58.440 wondering

00:32:59.400 whether

00:32:59.780 I mean

00:33:00.600 maybe I'm

00:33:01.560 being naive

00:33:02.020 here

00:33:02.440 you'll probably

00:33:03.480 correct me

00:33:03.960 but is there

00:33:04.900 maybe hope

00:33:05.440 that with all

00:33:06.020 the media

00:33:06.420 attention now

00:33:07.040 actually there

00:33:07.680 will be some

00:33:08.120 justice

00:33:08.580 for Jade

00:33:09.480 yes

00:33:09.980 I don't

00:33:11.120 even want

00:33:12.100 to go

00:33:12.320 through it

00:33:12.740 I gave

00:33:13.440 them DNA

00:33:13.840 18 years

00:33:14.600 ago

00:33:14.860 I cannot

00:33:16.200 now go

00:33:16.720 through that

00:33:17.100 for another

00:33:17.440 six years

00:33:18.040 for them

00:33:18.780 to be

00:33:19.040 sentenced

00:33:19.300 for four

00:33:19.780 years in

00:33:20.520 jail

00:33:20.760 when I've

00:33:21.820 done nearly

00:33:22.700 20 years

00:33:23.280 of trauma

00:33:24.260 20 years

00:33:25.200 of waking

00:33:25.500 up every

00:33:25.860 day crying

00:33:26.300 because of

00:33:26.620 the abuse

00:33:26.920 I went

00:33:27.180 through

00:33:27.460 scared to

00:33:28.600 leave my

00:33:28.900 house

00:33:29.160 I have

00:33:29.460 anxiety

00:33:29.900 I can't

00:33:30.320 leave my

00:33:30.620 house

00:33:30.920 I have

00:33:31.560 trouble

00:33:31.840 with

00:33:32.140 relationships

00:33:32.780 because I

00:33:34.420 don't trust

00:33:34.820 anyone

00:33:35.260 I can't

00:33:37.240 get into

00:33:37.520 taxis

00:33:38.080 on my

00:33:38.340 own

00:33:38.700 like there's

00:33:40.700 so much

00:33:41.640 stuff

00:33:41.960 that

00:33:42.220 yeah

00:33:43.100 you probably

00:33:43.760 just want to

00:33:44.160 get on with

00:33:44.500 your life

00:33:44.900 of course

00:33:45.240 I do

00:33:45.460 I wanted

00:33:46.300 to work

00:33:47.460 with vulnerable

00:33:47.920 kids

00:33:48.380 and I can't

00:33:49.400 do that

00:33:49.720 because of

00:33:50.140 what I'm

00:33:50.340 class

00:33:50.580 does now

00:33:51.100 this is

00:33:52.840 such an

00:33:53.240 injustice

00:33:53.660 on so

00:33:54.380 many levels

00:33:55.000 it really

00:33:55.700 is horrific

00:33:56.160 and it's

00:33:57.280 disgusting

00:33:57.720 that this

00:33:58.420 has been

00:33:59.120 allowed to

00:33:59.580 go on for

00:33:59.940 so long

00:34:00.420 and to

00:34:01.460 so many

00:34:01.820 people

00:34:02.180 and the worst

00:34:02.700 thing is it's

00:34:03.120 not just me

00:34:03.720 I know

00:34:04.320 there's untold

00:34:05.820 girls out there

00:34:06.420 that are going

00:34:06.840 through the exact

00:34:07.320 same thing as

00:34:07.920 me and this is

00:34:09.040 why we need to

00:34:09.620 try and make

00:34:09.960 change now

00:34:10.600 because I can't

00:34:11.860 physically let

00:34:12.580 another girl go

00:34:13.240 through what I

00:34:13.660 went through

00:34:14.080 I can't have

00:34:15.600 another girl out

00:34:16.220 there for another

00:34:16.700 18 years

00:34:17.340 waking up crying

00:34:18.040 every day

00:34:18.540 because they

00:34:19.200 feel like shit

00:34:19.800 for what they've

00:34:20.280 put you through

00:34:20.840 because it's not

00:34:21.840 just the perpetrators

00:34:22.720 that have done

00:34:23.140 this to me

00:34:23.700 it's the police

00:34:24.720 it's social services

00:34:25.680 it's the court

00:34:26.460 people that

00:34:27.680 sent me to jail

00:34:28.440 it's all of them

00:34:29.540 CPS

00:34:31.020 everyone

00:34:31.900 I mean when

00:34:33.220 when Jade

00:34:33.780 when I first met

00:34:34.760 Jade

00:34:35.060 how many years

00:34:35.620 ago was that

00:34:36.160 yeah in

00:34:37.520 Euston Station

00:34:38.440 I mean Jade's

00:34:39.460 upset now

00:34:39.980 you couldn't

00:34:40.880 speak could you

00:34:41.520 you know

00:34:42.700 you carried all

00:34:43.300 this guilt

00:34:43.800 all this shame

00:34:44.680 all this

00:34:45.420 hiding from the

00:34:46.400 world

00:34:46.740 wouldn't admit

00:34:47.580 what had

00:34:47.920 happened

00:34:48.300 and she came

00:34:50.840 I started a charity

00:34:51.860 because of children

00:34:52.720 like Jade

00:34:53.900 but to see her

00:34:55.720 blossoming

00:34:56.240 and I know

00:34:56.900 she's upset now

00:34:57.900 but to see her

00:34:59.140 to go from

00:34:59.920 somebody who hid

00:35:00.560 from the world

00:35:02.000 to finding a voice

00:35:04.000 to recognising

00:35:05.280 you know

00:35:05.940 from day one

00:35:06.820 I said to

00:35:07.480 we all

00:35:07.900 you know

00:35:08.360 my team

00:35:08.840 you have done

00:35:09.920 nothing wrong

00:35:11.000 this is not

00:35:12.120 your fault

00:35:13.060 you have been

00:35:14.280 failed

00:35:14.800 you believe that

00:35:16.080 now don't you

00:35:16.680 but she's had

00:35:17.600 a year and a half

00:35:18.480 of emotional support

00:35:19.720 through the charity

00:35:20.580 we all believed

00:35:22.740 in her

00:35:23.240 we've

00:35:23.740 you know

00:35:24.140 you've told your story

00:35:25.140 to the Channel 4

00:35:26.520 documentary

00:35:27.080 and that journey

00:35:28.660 of being believed

00:35:30.020 and being supported

00:35:31.140 has led to her

00:35:33.000 recovery

00:35:33.580 and now finding

00:35:34.540 a voice

00:35:35.060 and knowing

00:35:36.220 she's done

00:35:36.680 nothing wrong

00:35:37.260 but the state

00:35:39.380 doesn't provide

00:35:40.160 that support

00:35:41.020 without us

00:35:42.380 Jade would still

00:35:43.340 be where she was

00:35:43.960 two years ago

00:35:44.680 and every child

00:35:45.900 like Jade

00:35:46.440 is in that place

00:35:47.380 you know

00:35:48.180 she's got a

00:35:49.060 seven year wait

00:35:50.140 I've been trying

00:35:51.620 to wait

00:35:51.880 to get on the

00:35:52.720 trauma calls

00:35:53.300 since I was 25

00:35:54.860 I'm now 32

00:35:56.700 and I still

00:35:57.540 haven't been put

00:35:57.940 on a trauma

00:35:58.260 course

00:35:58.620 I started

00:35:59.540 a trauma

00:35:59.820 course

00:36:00.260 in September

00:36:00.920 because Maggie's

00:36:01.780 managed to put me

00:36:02.440 on it

00:36:02.800 NHS has not

00:36:04.360 helped me at all

00:36:05.200 with anything

00:36:05.880 with my mental

00:36:06.720 health

00:36:07.260 they don't do

00:36:08.560 anything

00:36:08.900 we're a charity

00:36:09.340 so we're not

00:36:10.020 a state agency

00:36:10.900 we exist

00:36:12.040 because of

00:36:12.520 donations

00:36:13.080 Maggie tell

00:36:14.140 everybody

00:36:14.400 about the

00:36:15.500 charity

00:36:15.920 it's there

00:36:17.120 what's it called

00:36:17.920 the Maggie Oliver

00:36:18.640 Foundation

00:36:19.200 I mean

00:36:20.340 you

00:36:20.520 the Maggie Oliver

00:36:21.600 Foundation is

00:36:22.240 absolutely amazing

00:36:22.920 I signed up to them

00:36:24.220 two years ago

00:36:24.880 and if it weren't

00:36:25.860 for me

00:36:26.160 I wouldn't be

00:36:26.700 here now

00:36:27.140 like where I am

00:36:28.140 at this point

00:36:28.900 of my healing

00:36:29.340 process now

00:36:30.000 I've had

00:36:30.980 a year and a half

00:36:31.940 of emotional support

00:36:32.840 one phone call

00:36:33.540 every week

00:36:34.180 I've done

00:36:35.900 a trauma

00:36:36.520 focused workshop

00:36:37.880 I'm now going

00:36:39.320 on a 12 week

00:36:40.220 trauma course

00:36:41.000 like the foundation

00:36:42.440 is amazing

00:36:43.360 the best support

00:36:45.640 I've had

00:36:46.120 and you know

00:36:47.000 we give emotional

00:36:48.800 support

00:36:49.360 but Jade's also

00:36:50.940 been supported

00:36:51.560 on the advocacy side

00:36:52.600 and she shared

00:36:53.320 her story

00:36:53.940 with Baroness Casey

00:36:55.200 you know

00:36:56.020 I brought a team

00:36:56.800 of a group

00:36:58.000 of 10 survivors

00:36:59.180 together

00:36:59.580 that she spoke

00:37:01.040 to and she

00:37:01.780 delayed publication

00:37:02.560 of her report

00:37:03.540 to include

00:37:04.420 their voices

00:37:05.000 because voices

00:37:06.800 like Jade

00:37:07.440 are hidden

00:37:07.920 the establishment

00:37:09.380 do not want

00:37:10.620 her

00:37:12.060 to find a voice

00:37:14.580 to share

00:37:15.320 these experiences

00:37:16.320 but as a police

00:37:17.820 officer

00:37:18.080 I have seen

00:37:19.360 this repeatedly

00:37:20.160 and lives

00:37:21.780 are destroyed

00:37:22.400 but they can

00:37:23.500 recover

00:37:23.980 and in the

00:37:25.900 absence of the

00:37:26.460 state providing

00:37:27.200 that which

00:37:27.580 they should be

00:37:28.420 you know

00:37:29.000 Jade's recovery

00:37:29.860 should be a

00:37:30.460 priority

00:37:30.980 not you know

00:37:33.480 well there's so

00:37:35.920 many things

00:37:36.340 that we as a

00:37:37.480 country waste

00:37:37.960 money on

00:37:38.440 when children

00:37:40.180 like Jade

00:37:40.760 do not get

00:37:41.560 the help

00:37:41.940 that they need

00:37:42.560 so we're trying

00:37:43.280 to make it

00:37:44.820 better

00:37:45.240 because I do

00:37:46.180 think that

00:37:46.700 every victim

00:37:47.940 every child

00:37:48.800 that's been

00:37:49.120 through what

00:37:49.440 Jade has

00:37:50.000 been through

00:37:50.400 can get

00:37:51.420 better

00:37:51.820 but they

00:37:53.160 can't do

00:37:53.620 it on their

00:37:54.020 own

00:37:54.300 so supporting

00:37:56.600 individuals

00:37:57.440 like Jade

00:37:58.400 in the foundation

00:37:59.080 is critical

00:37:59.740 but I want

00:38:00.920 to change

00:38:01.340 the system

00:38:01.940 and Jade

00:38:03.140 is part of

00:38:03.980 that work

00:38:04.940 for change

00:38:05.540 now because

00:38:06.100 I can't tell

00:38:07.500 Jade's story

00:38:08.240 your story

00:38:09.460 is so important

00:38:11.500 but it's

00:38:12.360 important that

00:38:12.880 you tell it

00:38:13.640 my job

00:38:14.600 is to join

00:38:15.220 the dots

00:38:15.720 and to show

00:38:16.720 that Jade

00:38:17.080 isn't one

00:38:17.580 isolated story

00:38:18.700 she is one

00:38:19.800 of thousands

00:38:20.400 and that's

00:38:22.120 why we have

00:38:22.840 to change

00:38:23.280 the system

00:38:23.840 it's really

00:38:24.500 important that

00:38:25.120 you're doing

00:38:25.500 that Maggie

00:38:26.020 the Maggie

00:38:27.400 Oliver Foundation

00:38:28.020 I really

00:38:28.380 encourage everybody

00:38:29.040 to go and

00:38:30.100 support it

00:38:30.560 because it's

00:38:31.140 clearly making

00:38:31.720 a massive

00:38:32.100 difference

00:38:32.520 and Jade

00:38:33.200 just so you

00:38:33.680 know

00:38:33.880 we have lots

00:38:34.800 of people

00:38:35.120 in the studio

00:38:35.680 some of them

00:38:36.480 are really

00:38:36.760 famous

00:38:37.120 and whatever

00:38:37.620 a lot of

00:38:38.440 them come

00:38:38.740 in super

00:38:39.100 nervous

00:38:39.440 and for you

00:38:40.140 to come

00:38:40.500 and tell

00:38:40.780 your story

00:38:41.220 the way

00:38:41.460 you're

00:38:41.640 telling

00:38:41.840 it's really

00:38:42.340 admirable

00:38:42.780 and thank you

00:38:43.600 for doing

00:38:43.940 that

00:38:44.120 yeah

00:38:44.700 so Maggie

00:38:45.880 let's talk

00:38:46.820 a little bit

00:38:47.260 more about

00:38:47.980 the thing

00:38:49.880 that you

00:38:50.160 talk about

00:38:50.760 which is

00:38:51.100 of course

00:38:51.460 that Jade

00:38:52.100 is not

00:38:52.760 the exception

00:38:53.260 unfortunately

00:38:53.580 no no no

00:38:54.340 right

00:38:54.600 so is this

00:38:56.460 still going

00:38:57.040 on first of

00:38:57.760 all

00:38:58.200 are there

00:38:58.740 still grooming

00:38:59.340 gangs in this country

00:39:00.020 I mean

00:39:00.240 perhaps that's Jade

00:39:01.520 you know

00:39:02.000 do you tell me

00:39:02.660 yeah 100%

00:39:03.720 100%

00:39:04.440 it's still going on

00:39:05.560 I met someone

00:39:08.240 recently that has

00:39:09.620 come over to me

00:39:10.580 and asked me

00:39:11.120 because a girl

00:39:11.820 has recently

00:39:12.340 been arrested

00:39:12.840 for the same

00:39:13.380 thing I've been

00:39:13.780 arrested for

00:39:14.700 there are

00:39:16.100 girls still

00:39:16.680 hiding in

00:39:17.220 toilets

00:39:17.600 crying

00:39:18.040 on the phone

00:39:18.700 crying to their

00:39:19.240 school workers

00:39:19.700 for help

00:39:20.180 to get out

00:39:21.580 of a situation

00:39:22.200 like now

00:39:24.300 this is going on

00:39:25.380 right now

00:39:25.720 there's girls

00:39:25.940 reported missing

00:39:26.660 right now

00:39:27.340 guaranteed

00:39:28.540 locked in a

00:39:29.160 house being

00:39:29.560 abused

00:39:29.960 100%

00:39:31.760 I know

00:39:32.220 a million percent

00:39:33.220 I've put my

00:39:33.680 life on it

00:39:34.260 I mean Jade

00:39:35.780 was involved

00:39:36.640 in the recent

00:39:37.300 Channel 4

00:39:37.720 documentary

00:39:38.180 and that

00:39:39.480 brings this

00:39:40.200 problem right

00:39:41.080 into the

00:39:41.740 current time

00:39:42.820 on cases

00:39:44.100 that we're

00:39:44.620 involved in

00:39:45.140 in the

00:39:45.400 foundation

00:39:45.880 you know

00:39:46.780 cases that

00:39:47.940 have been

00:39:48.300 reopened

00:39:49.400 because they

00:39:50.180 were failed

00:39:50.640 the first

00:39:51.140 time around

00:39:51.820 you know

00:39:53.080 girls are

00:39:53.680 waiting six

00:39:54.720 years later

00:39:55.340 they've

00:39:56.220 cooperated with

00:39:56.940 the police

00:39:57.260 six years

00:39:57.720 ago

00:39:57.900 they're still

00:39:58.420 waiting for

00:39:59.060 their abusers

00:39:59.600 to be charged

00:40:00.360 their lives

00:40:01.780 are on hold

00:40:02.400 again

00:40:02.780 the police

00:40:04.200 have actually

00:40:05.100 done very

00:40:06.100 little

00:40:06.500 I mean I'm

00:40:07.820 thinking of

00:40:08.180 Chantel

00:40:08.720 for instance

00:40:09.620 because some

00:40:10.140 of your

00:40:10.520 listeners

00:40:10.940 will have

00:40:11.260 watched

00:40:11.460 that

00:40:11.640 documentary

00:40:12.020 she identified

00:40:13.660 some of her

00:40:14.260 abusers

00:40:14.620 four years

00:40:15.140 ago

00:40:15.420 they're not

00:40:16.240 even on

00:40:16.580 police bail

00:40:17.180 they're out

00:40:17.840 walking the

00:40:18.440 streets

00:40:18.820 so I would

00:40:20.200 say that

00:40:20.960 we've got the

00:40:21.600 authorities

00:40:21.980 saying how

00:40:22.780 you know

00:40:23.560 I remember

00:40:24.300 the chief

00:40:24.580 constable

00:40:25.000 saying

00:40:25.320 as sure

00:40:28.460 as night

00:40:28.920 follows day

00:40:29.820 if anybody

00:40:30.860 came to us

00:40:31.660 today

00:40:32.140 they would

00:40:32.940 not be

00:40:33.360 treated the

00:40:33.940 way that

00:40:34.340 Jade is

00:40:34.900 but that's

00:40:35.960 not the

00:40:36.340 reality of

00:40:36.980 what we see

00:40:37.820 in the

00:40:38.060 foundation

00:40:38.540 I think

00:40:40.840 there is

00:40:41.120 now

00:40:41.300 awareness

00:40:41.940 throughout

00:40:42.420 the whole

00:40:42.780 country

00:40:43.120 there is

00:40:43.480 outrage

00:40:44.220 there is

00:40:44.960 awareness

00:40:45.460 and they're

00:40:46.040 still talking

00:40:46.780 the talk

00:40:47.460 because they

00:40:48.500 can't do

00:40:48.960 anything else

00:40:49.680 but when it

00:40:50.520 comes to

00:40:50.920 walking the

00:40:51.440 walk and

00:40:51.960 putting the

00:40:52.300 resources in

00:40:53.060 and dealing

00:40:53.640 with each

00:40:54.640 individual

00:40:55.120 victim who

00:40:55.660 needs the

00:40:56.020 help

00:40:56.280 it's still

00:40:57.680 potluck

00:40:58.340 in what

00:40:58.780 you get

00:40:59.220 there is

00:40:59.880 no right

00:41:01.220 to have

00:41:02.560 your case

00:41:03.380 investigated

00:41:04.640 properly

00:41:05.140 there's a

00:41:05.840 lack of

00:41:06.240 police

00:41:06.620 experiences

00:41:07.520 a lack

00:41:07.940 of police

00:41:08.360 numbers

00:41:08.860 we've got

00:41:09.880 cases that

00:41:10.480 are four

00:41:10.840 or five

00:41:11.280 years

00:41:11.580 wait for

00:41:12.040 a trial

00:41:12.600 so the

00:41:13.860 system is

00:41:14.320 on its

00:41:14.620 knees

00:41:15.060 and I'm

00:41:17.100 you know

00:41:17.700 myself

00:41:18.840 together with

00:41:19.600 you know

00:41:20.060 victims and

00:41:20.780 survivors like

00:41:21.540 Jade

00:41:21.760 we're trying

00:41:22.680 to push for

00:41:23.280 the changes

00:41:23.780 that are

00:41:24.180 needed

00:41:24.520 to prevent

00:41:25.260 this

00:41:25.480 continuing

00:41:26.080 again and

00:41:26.960 again and

00:41:27.380 again

00:41:27.680 you say

00:41:30.000 there's

00:41:30.260 outrage

00:41:30.780 and I

00:41:31.380 think it's

00:41:31.760 true but

00:41:32.200 whenever we

00:41:33.540 have these

00:41:34.320 conversations

00:41:34.820 I just

00:41:35.220 think there's

00:41:35.480 not enough

00:41:35.880 outrage

00:41:36.320 I really

00:41:37.140 don't

00:41:38.020 well you

00:41:39.000 know it's

00:41:39.360 taken over

00:41:39.760 my life

00:41:40.440 and you

00:41:41.900 know see

00:41:42.240 hearing stories

00:41:44.420 like this

00:41:44.720 every day

00:41:45.300 somebody has

00:41:46.860 to shout

00:41:47.400 about it

00:41:48.180 and I

00:41:49.480 think through

00:41:50.060 that those

00:41:51.060 stories very

00:41:52.420 very slowly

00:41:53.280 raising awareness

00:41:55.600 is the first

00:41:56.180 point in pushing

00:41:56.820 for change

00:41:57.540 there are

00:41:58.440 definitely more

00:41:58.920 survivors coming

00:41:59.540 forward

00:41:59.940 which is what

00:42:01.020 we needed

00:42:01.500 because obviously

00:42:03.240 one person

00:42:04.140 coming to sing

00:42:05.080 you're not

00:42:05.420 going to hear

00:42:05.820 them but

00:42:06.180 when you've

00:42:06.440 got a choir

00:42:06.820 behind you

00:42:07.380 you can't

00:42:08.260 not hear

00:42:08.720 it so I

00:42:09.700 feel like the

00:42:10.140 more survivors

00:42:11.600 we're getting

00:42:11.980 the better

00:42:12.480 because we have

00:42:14.280 to be heard

00:42:14.840 not all of us

00:42:17.000 could be

00:42:17.560 lying or

00:42:19.580 joking

00:42:20.040 you know

00:42:20.540 we've got

00:42:21.040 to be

00:42:21.900 heard

00:42:22.060 listening to

00:42:22.500 at some

00:42:22.800 point

00:42:23.160 I think

00:42:24.140 people are

00:42:24.580 listening to

00:42:25.100 you and I

00:42:25.540 do think

00:42:25.900 that the

00:42:26.200 country

00:42:26.580 hears that

00:42:27.660 what I

00:42:28.520 don't see

00:42:29.140 is a real

00:42:30.220 determination

00:42:30.720 from those

00:42:31.680 at the top

00:42:32.220 to bring

00:42:33.120 change

00:42:33.740 they will

00:42:34.380 talk the

00:42:34.860 talk

00:42:35.220 and then

00:42:35.800 as soon

00:42:36.100 as the

00:42:36.460 media

00:42:36.900 spotlight

00:42:37.260 turns away

00:42:38.100 they carry

00:42:38.880 on and

00:42:39.460 do nothing

00:42:40.020 so for me

00:42:41.240 my aim

00:42:42.680 is to give

00:42:43.280 survivors like

00:42:44.800 Jade a

00:42:45.160 platform

00:42:45.620 because their

00:42:46.380 voices are

00:42:46.960 what will

00:42:47.780 educate people

00:42:49.500 but my

00:42:51.220 priority is

00:42:52.240 to force

00:42:52.880 those in

00:42:53.540 power to

00:42:54.280 change

00:42:54.840 and I

00:42:55.920 don't believe

00:42:56.480 that will

00:42:56.800 happen without

00:42:57.440 personal

00:42:58.020 accountability

00:42:58.600 I honestly

00:43:00.040 and truthfully

00:43:00.700 believe

00:43:01.500 Constantine

00:43:02.000 that if a

00:43:02.480 chief constable

00:43:03.260 finds themselves

00:43:05.200 in a criminal

00:43:06.220 court charged

00:43:07.140 with misconduct

00:43:07.680 in a public

00:43:08.160 office

00:43:08.560 I think

00:43:09.300 every single

00:43:10.060 person in a

00:43:10.760 high position

00:43:11.280 today will

00:43:12.140 look at their

00:43:12.720 own position

00:43:13.340 and think

00:43:13.720 that might be

00:43:14.540 me in 10

00:43:15.060 years time

00:43:15.520 I might be

00:43:16.220 in prison

00:43:16.760 for gross

00:43:17.740 neglect of

00:43:18.380 duty

00:43:18.580 and that's

00:43:19.720 how I think

00:43:20.260 we will see

00:43:20.880 change

00:43:21.260 because what

00:43:22.440 happens now

00:43:23.160 is when

00:43:23.780 something happens

00:43:24.840 the whole

00:43:25.460 of the

00:43:25.920 machine

00:43:27.260 gathers around

00:43:28.920 the public

00:43:29.460 institutions

00:43:30.180 because they're

00:43:31.280 more concerned

00:43:32.220 about reputational

00:43:33.140 damage than

00:43:34.600 they are in

00:43:36.180 bringing change

00:43:37.180 so everything

00:43:38.460 is geared

00:43:40.780 and this isn't

00:43:41.360 me speculating

00:43:42.160 I know this

00:43:42.960 because of what

00:43:43.540 I've seen

00:43:44.100 and what I've

00:43:44.540 learned

00:43:44.840 corruption is

00:43:46.100 rife

00:43:46.680 the cover-ups

00:43:48.060 go to the top

00:43:49.480 of these

00:43:49.800 institutions

00:43:50.420 and if you're

00:43:51.860 at the bottom

00:43:52.320 and you're

00:43:53.640 moaning

00:43:54.140 they don't

00:43:55.340 take it

00:43:55.760 seriously

00:43:56.120 but the

00:43:56.500 higher up

00:43:57.060 you start

00:43:57.580 to target

00:43:58.120 the more

00:43:59.160 of a threat

00:43:59.920 it is

00:44:00.400 and the

00:44:00.980 establishment

00:44:01.540 gathers around

00:44:02.380 them

00:44:02.620 so it is

00:44:04.220 a battle

00:44:04.700 but I do

00:44:05.940 think it's

00:44:06.300 one we have

00:44:06.740 to win

00:44:07.120 I think we

00:44:08.020 have to

00:44:08.440 have personal

00:44:09.320 accountability

00:44:09.800 for these

00:44:11.220 these are not

00:44:11.760 mistakes

00:44:12.400 this is systemic

00:44:13.700 failure

00:44:14.140 it's neglect

00:44:14.700 it's

00:44:15.940 deliberately

00:44:17.240 turning away

00:44:18.080 from generations

00:44:18.800 of vulnerable

00:44:19.340 children

00:44:19.680 because they

00:44:20.160 couldn't be

00:44:20.660 arsed

00:44:21.100 these kids

00:44:22.040 didn't matter

00:44:22.940 they weren't

00:44:23.800 going to spend

00:44:24.300 the money

00:44:24.760 they are

00:44:25.960 collateral

00:44:27.040 damage

00:44:27.620 and that's

00:44:29.160 where we

00:44:29.480 need to

00:44:30.060 see action

00:44:30.780 so we've

00:44:32.340 become closer

00:44:33.500 to that

00:44:34.380 I think over

00:44:35.020 the past

00:44:35.500 five years

00:44:37.060 but you know

00:44:38.060 when I look

00:44:38.660 at the

00:44:39.340 national abuse

00:44:41.300 inquiry that

00:44:41.820 we've had

00:44:42.240 it's called

00:44:42.900 ICSA

00:44:43.220 independent

00:44:43.780 inquiry into

00:44:44.380 child sexual

00:44:44.880 abuse

00:44:46.160 you know

00:44:47.040 that took

00:44:47.880 seven years

00:44:48.720 hundreds of

00:44:49.820 millions of

00:44:50.380 pounds

00:44:50.800 dozens

00:44:52.260 hundreds

00:44:52.780 of

00:44:53.500 victims

00:44:54.080 survivors

00:44:54.620 like

00:44:54.940 jade

00:44:55.340 20

00:44:56.500 recommendations

00:44:57.400 23 years

00:44:59.580 ago

00:44:59.860 not one

00:45:00.800 of those

00:45:01.220 has yet

00:45:01.640 been

00:45:01.820 implemented

00:45:02.340 they're

00:45:03.060 sitting

00:45:03.400 on a

00:45:03.940 shelf

00:45:04.200 in the

00:45:04.640 home

00:45:04.860 office

00:45:05.200 gathering

00:45:05.860 dust

00:45:06.400 what's

00:45:07.320 the point

00:45:07.760 in having

00:45:08.280 a national

00:45:08.800 inquiry

00:45:09.300 when you

00:45:09.800 don't

00:45:10.120 implement

00:45:10.500 those

00:45:10.780 recommendations

00:45:11.440 so the

00:45:12.920 foundation

00:45:13.620 my charity

00:45:14.260 we are

00:45:15.200 taking the

00:45:15.660 government

00:45:15.900 to court

00:45:16.360 under a

00:45:16.680 judicial

00:45:17.000 review

00:45:17.480 to try

00:45:19.160 to force

00:45:19.720 them to

00:45:20.060 implement

00:45:20.460 those

00:45:20.840 those

00:45:21.200 recommendations

00:45:21.720 don't go

00:45:22.420 far enough

00:45:23.000 but they

00:45:23.680 are a

00:45:24.100 start

00:45:24.500 and if you

00:45:25.440 know that

00:45:25.860 you know

00:45:26.180 one of them

00:45:26.660 is to have

00:45:27.000 a children's

00:45:27.540 minister

00:45:27.780 we don't

00:45:28.320 have a

00:45:28.660 children's

00:45:29.040 minister

00:45:29.300 in the

00:45:29.580 cabinet

00:45:29.900 to legally

00:45:31.680 prevent

00:45:32.240 pain

00:45:32.740 compliance

00:45:33.560 of children

00:45:34.520 in care

00:45:35.140 do you

00:45:35.860 know that

00:45:36.240 a child

00:45:36.760 who's

00:45:37.060 13

00:45:37.520 can be

00:45:38.200 pinned

00:45:38.540 down

00:45:39.020 and

00:45:39.640 tortured

00:45:40.240 if their

00:45:41.420 staff

00:45:41.980 considers

00:45:42.540 that they

00:45:43.020 are at

00:45:43.460 risk

00:45:43.900 that's

00:45:44.600 still not

00:45:45.060 outlawed

00:45:45.620 in law

00:45:46.260 so the

00:45:47.560 judicial

00:45:47.960 review

00:45:48.480 will try

00:45:49.380 to force

00:45:50.000 the government

00:45:50.620 to implement

00:45:51.440 those 20

00:45:52.000 recommendations

00:45:52.600 we can't

00:45:54.320 force them

00:45:54.900 to but

00:45:55.800 what we

00:45:56.220 can force

00:45:56.920 them to

00:45:57.200 do is

00:45:57.600 to say

00:45:58.180 that they're

00:45:59.420 not going

00:45:59.860 to implement

00:46:00.360 them so

00:46:01.180 rather than

00:46:01.740 this smokescreen

00:46:02.700 about pretending

00:46:03.700 and kicking

00:46:04.140 the ball

00:46:04.540 further down

00:46:05.040 the road

00:46:05.460 so nothing

00:46:06.160 happens

00:46:06.660 that's the

00:46:07.620 first step

00:46:08.240 the second

00:46:09.040 step

00:46:09.520 I'm involved

00:46:10.600 in something

00:46:11.080 called action

00:46:11.580 for accountability

00:46:12.260 where there's

00:46:13.920 a team

00:46:14.360 of lawyers

00:46:14.920 and barristers

00:46:15.800 now looking

00:46:16.500 at the

00:46:17.160 evidence

00:46:17.800 to see

00:46:18.840 where

00:46:19.580 there is

00:46:20.380 evidence

00:46:20.940 of gross

00:46:22.280 criminal

00:46:22.740 neglect

00:46:23.520 misconduct

00:46:24.180 in a public

00:46:24.740 office

00:46:25.160 where we

00:46:26.540 can bring

00:46:27.100 a private

00:46:27.620 prosecution

00:46:28.280 because

00:46:29.120 quite honestly

00:46:29.980 the CPS

00:46:30.920 will never

00:46:31.580 prosecute

00:46:32.400 a state

00:46:33.300 body

00:46:33.660 they will

00:46:34.240 never do

00:46:34.740 that

00:46:34.980 so we

00:46:35.720 have to

00:46:36.080 be

00:46:36.460 creative

00:46:37.440 about how

00:46:38.780 we push

00:46:39.480 this ball

00:46:39.960 further down

00:46:40.500 the road

00:46:40.880 so I'm

00:46:41.780 trying my

00:46:42.220 best to

00:46:42.980 the foundation

00:46:44.280 now is

00:46:44.860 very well

00:46:46.860 developed

00:46:47.300 we've got

00:46:47.700 fantastic team

00:46:48.780 so the

00:46:49.540 individual help

00:46:50.360 is there

00:46:50.720 without me

00:46:51.280 my knowledge

00:46:52.200 and expertise

00:46:52.840 should go

00:46:53.580 to that

00:46:54.220 so Baroness

00:46:56.040 Casey

00:46:56.380 who came

00:46:57.100 not only to

00:46:58.540 speak to Jade

00:46:59.080 but we had a

00:46:59.820 meeting didn't we

00:47:00.520 in a room

00:47:01.160 she listened

00:47:01.920 her report

00:47:03.160 reflects their

00:47:03.840 voices

00:47:04.200 she has also

00:47:06.760 stated in that

00:47:08.420 report as a

00:47:09.200 result of Jade's

00:47:10.200 story

00:47:10.580 that she

00:47:12.080 is going

00:47:12.500 to be

00:47:12.940 behind us

00:47:13.820 and we're

00:47:14.120 going to be

00:47:14.460 behind her

00:47:15.160 in making

00:47:16.360 it impossible

00:47:17.760 for an

00:47:19.740 abuser who

00:47:20.540 rapes a

00:47:21.120 13-14 year

00:47:22.160 old child

00:47:22.800 to not be

00:47:24.780 charged with

00:47:25.240 rape

00:47:25.580 so it would

00:47:26.140 be a

00:47:26.460 statutory

00:47:26.920 offence

00:47:28.820 of rape

00:47:29.560 if a

00:47:29.920 30 year

00:47:30.680 old man

00:47:31.120 has sex

00:47:31.920 with a

00:47:32.200 13 year

00:47:32.700 old

00:47:32.860 14 year

00:47:33.420 old

00:47:33.520 15 year

00:47:33.960 old

00:47:34.120 child

00:47:34.480 they will

00:47:35.400 not be

00:47:35.760 able to

00:47:36.140 argue

00:47:36.420 that that

00:47:37.020 child

00:47:37.300 consented

00:47:37.880 and that's

00:47:38.480 quite right

00:47:39.200 you know

00:47:39.980 but you

00:47:41.080 know you

00:47:41.460 remember when

00:47:41.920 I'm not

00:47:42.200 going to go

00:47:42.500 over old

00:47:42.940 ground

00:47:43.200 because I

00:47:43.640 told this

00:47:44.080 story when

00:47:44.500 I was with

00:47:45.100 you last

00:47:45.400 time but

00:47:46.440 Jade kind

00:47:47.760 of found

00:47:48.240 out about

00:47:48.780 me and

00:47:49.300 the foundation

00:47:49.900 through the

00:47:50.600 drama three

00:47:51.120 girls because

00:47:52.420 Jade could

00:47:53.680 be Amber

00:47:54.260 really without

00:47:55.580 me Amber

00:47:56.660 would have

00:47:56.980 gone to

00:47:57.300 prison but

00:47:58.880 I knew the

00:47:59.660 inside story

00:48:00.540 but on that

00:48:01.340 case there

00:48:02.480 was also

00:48:03.000 Ruby you

00:48:04.120 know a

00:48:04.900 theatis was

00:48:05.400 found in the

00:48:05.860 police property

00:48:06.380 system we

00:48:07.740 had DNA

00:48:08.420 she was 12

00:48:10.080 years old

00:48:10.540 when he

00:48:10.820 started to

00:48:11.360 rape her

00:48:11.800 13 years

00:48:12.920 old when

00:48:13.260 she got

00:48:13.500 pregnant

00:48:13.880 even he

00:48:15.700 was not

00:48:16.240 charged with

00:48:16.720 rape he

00:48:17.920 was charged

00:48:18.400 with conspiracy

00:48:19.280 to commit

00:48:20.360 sexual activity

00:48:21.080 with a

00:48:21.640 child because

00:48:23.400 they didn't

00:48:23.960 want to have

00:48:24.560 a debate in

00:48:25.360 court about

00:48:26.020 whether or

00:48:26.540 not she

00:48:26.900 consented she

00:48:28.180 couldn't

00:48:28.620 consent but

00:48:30.800 if this law

00:48:31.600 comes in

00:48:32.300 that man who

00:48:33.660 was 43 years

00:48:34.620 old he was

00:48:35.140 out of prison

00:48:35.760 in three years

00:48:36.620 he was back

00:48:37.240 in Rochdale

00:48:37.900 and she

00:48:38.500 bumped into

00:48:39.020 him in the

00:48:39.340 supermarket

00:48:39.860 that for me

00:48:41.100 is horrific

00:48:42.600 that's not

00:48:43.960 justice and

00:48:45.280 that's not

00:48:45.720 right and

00:48:46.920 so if this

00:48:47.720 law which

00:48:48.960 actually that

00:48:50.100 would give you

00:48:50.660 such an

00:48:51.200 enormous sense

00:48:52.140 of pride for

00:48:52.740 the rest of

00:48:53.260 your life

00:48:53.820 that your

00:48:54.800 case has

00:48:56.120 affected the

00:48:57.400 situation for

00:48:58.120 every other

00:48:58.740 child victim

00:48:59.460 and that's

00:49:00.300 what has given

00:49:00.920 Jade her

00:49:01.400 voice and

00:49:02.020 that's what I

00:49:02.440 want for

00:49:02.760 every victim

00:49:03.520 yeah that's

00:49:04.180 what makes

00:49:04.520 me want to

00:49:04.980 carry on

00:49:05.420 and that's

00:49:06.180 why we're

00:49:06.660 a team

00:49:06.940 so that is

00:49:10.360 a really

00:49:10.980 important

00:49:12.560 life-changing

00:49:14.760 decision

00:49:16.340 we've still got

00:49:17.540 to get the

00:49:17.900 government to do

00:49:18.520 that but we

00:49:20.040 will be fighting

00:49:20.620 for that and

00:49:21.840 now it's in an

00:49:22.720 official report

00:49:23.680 it gives it

00:49:24.580 extra weight I

00:49:25.680 didn't need

00:49:26.280 Baroness Casey

00:49:26.980 to tell me that

00:49:27.600 that's wrong

00:49:28.140 but the

00:49:29.340 government do

00:49:29.960 apparently

00:49:30.980 because they

00:49:31.560 don't listen

00:49:32.180 to individuals

00:49:33.500 so those

00:49:34.920 changes are

00:49:35.600 really important

00:49:36.340 and my voice

00:49:37.200 is best used

00:49:38.780 in those

00:49:39.640 platforms

00:49:40.240 but bringing

00:49:41.880 survivors like

00:49:43.340 Jade into

00:49:44.040 those conversations

00:49:45.540 so that you

00:49:47.000 can share what

00:49:47.660 happened to you

00:49:48.440 and every

00:49:49.700 you know there's

00:49:50.340 lots of Jades

00:49:51.140 but you've found

00:49:52.940 your voice

00:49:53.480 many are not as

00:49:54.480 far along the

00:49:55.120 road are they

00:49:55.680 as you

00:49:55.980 and it's like

00:49:57.240 with the little

00:49:57.740 bits of story

00:49:58.360 that I told you

00:49:59.000 of what I went

00:49:59.420 through and

00:49:59.660 everything

00:49:59.940 that's just like

00:50:01.280 little trips and

00:50:02.380 traps I was

00:50:03.220 getting abused

00:50:03.880 for nearly two

00:50:04.360 years

00:50:04.740 near enough every

00:50:06.020 day if not

00:50:06.600 every day every

00:50:07.120 weekend

00:50:07.880 so it's like

00:50:09.160 that was only

00:50:10.020 happening

00:50:10.480 like that's

00:50:11.920 them scenarios

00:50:13.240 happened near

00:50:14.940 enough every day

00:50:15.400 of my life

00:50:15.900 for the two

00:50:17.180 years of my

00:50:17.680 life should I

00:50:18.040 say

00:50:18.300 you know I'm

00:50:19.600 listening to this

00:50:20.320 story and it

00:50:21.200 has real parallels

00:50:22.380 with abusers like

00:50:23.860 Jimmy Savile

00:50:24.620 abusers like

00:50:25.900 Cyril Smith who

00:50:27.220 was a notorious

00:50:28.160 paedophile he was

00:50:28.980 a Liberal Democrat

00:50:29.640 in Rochdale

00:50:31.020 because they

00:50:32.760 targeted children's

00:50:34.240 homes so it's not

00:50:35.740 just about grooming

00:50:36.560 gangs there is a

00:50:37.720 pattern of how

00:50:38.560 these type of

00:50:39.300 abusers actually

00:50:40.700 operate if you

00:50:41.480 could just go into

00:50:42.240 that a little bit

00:50:42.800 you're absolutely

00:50:43.780 spot on because

00:50:44.580 paedophiles child

00:50:46.320 abusers target

00:50:47.500 vulnerable children

00:50:48.700 so wherever there

00:50:50.320 are vulnerable

00:50:50.820 children you will

00:50:51.680 find child abusers

00:50:53.000 so whether it's in

00:50:54.560 you know outside

00:50:55.500 children's homes

00:50:56.400 outside schools

00:50:57.520 outside schools

00:50:58.360 outside you know

00:51:01.560 they'll infiltrate

00:51:02.840 kids clubs that

00:51:04.840 they will target

00:51:05.640 but you know

00:51:06.540 Jimmy Savile

00:51:07.160 you know he went

00:51:08.240 into hospitals

00:51:09.620 where there were

00:51:10.820 disabled people

00:51:14.120 I've when I've

00:51:15.080 been in the police

00:51:15.620 I've had allegations

00:51:16.820 been aware of

00:51:18.240 allegations in

00:51:18.980 mental health

00:51:19.540 institutes because

00:51:20.300 nobody will believe

00:51:21.500 that person in a

00:51:22.820 mental health

00:51:23.540 institute so that's

00:51:25.080 where the predators

00:51:25.720 go but the you

00:51:28.740 know I think I

00:51:29.200 said to you before

00:51:30.080 Francis that the

00:51:32.160 criminal justice

00:51:33.280 system the law and

00:51:34.580 prosecutions will

00:51:35.240 never get rid of

00:51:36.160 this and I think

00:51:37.820 it's really important

00:51:38.900 that every individual

00:51:40.240 who sees it takes

00:51:42.120 responsibility for

00:51:43.260 doing something about

00:51:44.320 it so if all those

00:51:46.340 social workers or all

00:51:48.240 the people in the

00:51:48.780 children's home that

00:51:49.560 knew what was

00:51:50.240 happening had acted

00:51:51.580 they could have

00:51:53.300 changed that the

00:51:54.540 police officers that

00:51:55.340 you went to have a

00:51:56.480 personal responsibility

00:51:57.680 to act it cost me my

00:51:59.740 job because I saw

00:52:01.620 this and I couldn't

00:52:02.540 believe what I was

00:52:04.080 seeing and but the

00:52:06.040 further down this road

00:52:07.080 I've got the more

00:52:08.740 horrified I've become

00:52:10.040 about how people turn a

00:52:13.640 blind eye and think

00:52:14.880 it's not my

00:52:15.680 responsibility well if

00:52:18.160 you care about

00:52:18.920 children it's all of

00:52:20.240 our responsibilities

00:52:21.220 but we shouldn't

00:52:23.080 have to lose give

00:52:24.800 your job up to

00:52:26.140 speak the truth and

00:52:27.600 that's why I think

00:52:29.900 the only way I think

00:52:32.140 you were saying

00:52:32.620 before about

00:52:33.400 whistleblowers should

00:52:34.660 be rewarded that's

00:52:36.420 never going to happen

00:52:37.320 yeah we said that

00:52:38.120 before we came on

00:52:38.800 air but it's

00:52:39.540 something actually I

00:52:40.620 heard somebody talk

00:52:41.540 about that really

00:52:42.120 resonated with me

00:52:42.860 which is the way to

00:52:44.720 prevent things like

00:52:46.660 this across all kinds

00:52:48.160 of different areas of

00:52:49.020 life actually is to

00:52:51.080 incentivize whistleblowers

00:52:52.540 with financial rewards

00:52:53.860 if you got a million

00:52:54.920 pounds for coming out

00:52:56.160 and revealing this stuff

00:52:57.520 was happening

00:52:57.880 right but but not only

00:53:01.560 would you be happy that

00:53:02.860 the police would know

00:53:04.120 yeah the authorities

00:53:05.620 would know they would

00:53:07.220 know that if we're

00:53:08.140 allowing things to

00:53:09.100 happen that shouldn't be

00:53:09.940 happening someone is

00:53:10.740 going to come forward

00:53:11.320 because they're going to

00:53:11.840 get a big payout and by

00:53:13.700 the way that's probably a

00:53:14.560 hell of a lot cheaper

00:53:15.340 then everything's going

00:53:16.100 to happen now

00:53:16.680 not the money is the

00:53:18.200 most important part of

00:53:18.980 this obviously but you

00:53:20.380 know what I'm saying

00:53:20.880 right so there are

00:53:22.420 solutions to this but

00:53:23.420 ultimately I think you

00:53:24.780 put a finger on it

00:53:25.960 when you say that these

00:53:27.100 institutions they don't

00:53:27.920 want scrutiny they don't

00:53:28.760 want no they don't want

00:53:29.720 this stuff to be to be

00:53:30.980 unraveled in this way

00:53:32.100 and what they do they

00:53:33.020 operate through the fear

00:53:34.020 factor and when I

00:53:34.920 started to when I first

00:53:36.880 saw what I saw I actually

00:53:38.520 naively thought it was

00:53:39.380 one lazy officer who

00:53:41.240 wasn't doing his job and

00:53:43.100 I didn't want to be I

00:53:45.800 didn't want to kind of

00:53:46.780 mix anybody a bottle if

00:53:48.200 you like but as I sat

00:53:50.620 there at home thinking

00:53:51.640 you know what am I going

00:53:54.180 to do and I was

00:53:55.760 threatened you know I

00:53:56.560 thought I'd go to prison

00:53:57.400 for speaking out I was

00:53:58.900 told that there's

00:53:59.600 everything you know you

00:54:00.580 only know because you're

00:54:01.380 a police officer you've

00:54:02.360 signed the official

00:54:02.880 secrets act you do not

00:54:05.040 share it I faced that

00:54:07.040 fear and I went public

00:54:09.060 not because I had any big

00:54:10.420 plan I just wanted to be

00:54:12.200 able to look myself

00:54:13.040 in the mirror and know

00:54:14.440 I'd done the best so

00:54:15.860 that my best so when my

00:54:17.480 children switch the

00:54:18.900 telly on 30 years later

00:54:20.880 and there's all this

00:54:22.040 scandal about Rochdale

00:54:23.240 they're going to say why

00:54:24.220 did my mum not say

00:54:25.240 anything that's what

00:54:26.680 drove me but in order to

00:54:28.760 to speak out I spent two

00:54:30.460 years as a serving police

00:54:31.860 officer facing my fear

00:54:34.100 and I accepted that I

00:54:36.900 might go to prison but I

00:54:38.600 knew that I was telling

00:54:39.540 the truth and I knew that

00:54:41.060 I was doing the right

00:54:41.860 thing but most people

00:54:44.540 you know you've got a

00:54:46.200 mortgage you've got

00:54:46.880 children they can't take

00:54:48.580 that risk and they're

00:54:51.140 never going to

00:54:51.600 incentivise it I took

00:54:53.340 power away from them by

00:54:54.800 resigning from the police

00:54:56.060 then they had no hold

00:54:57.320 over me but I do believe

00:54:59.500 that personal

00:55:00.420 accountability if we can

00:55:03.300 make an example of one

00:55:05.580 two ten public servants

00:55:07.500 will have the same

00:55:08.540 effect.

00:55:09.680 Maggie and this is me

00:55:10.940 being conspiratorial but

00:55:12.680 it seems to me that this

00:55:14.380 is almost you know when

00:55:16.000 somebody has been

00:55:16.920 diagnosed with cancer and

00:55:18.280 it's too late and they

00:55:19.800 do the checks and the

00:55:21.640 cancer is spread

00:55:22.360 everywhere it seems to me

00:55:24.820 that with this type of

00:55:26.940 cases that you've been

00:55:28.460 speaking about Jade and

00:55:29.760 you've been talking about

00:55:30.580 more broadly does this go

00:55:32.340 right the way to the top

00:55:33.720 is this been a cover-up

00:55:35.140 from the very very very

00:55:37.080 top?

00:55:37.920 I believe so.

00:55:39.320 I hundred and fifty

00:55:41.160 percent believe so.

00:55:42.140 You're both nodding

00:55:42.760 very very very why do you

00:55:44.340 why do you why are you so

00:55:45.480 convinced?

00:55:46.160 I'm not disputing I'm just

00:55:47.480 asking.

00:55:48.220 You know at the beginning

00:55:49.060 of this journey I didn't

00:55:50.400 believe that but the my

00:55:52.500 journey of the past 15

00:55:53.540 years that the similarities

00:55:56.580 between every area in this

00:55:59.420 country so whether it's

00:56:00.480 Yorkshire or Manchester or

00:56:02.120 Cumbria or Thames Valley

00:56:04.140 they're they're identical

00:56:07.680 they are identical and I

00:56:11.520 do believe that it's been

00:56:13.260 I mean I think I've I've

00:56:15.760 referred several times to

00:56:17.660 Nazir Afzal was the chief

00:56:19.740 prosecutor on the Rochdale

00:56:21.620 case and he's a

00:56:23.200 spokesperson now who goes

00:56:24.920 out and does a lot of

00:56:25.720 interviews.

00:56:26.540 He spoke publicly about a

00:56:29.380 circular that was sent

00:56:30.320 round from the Home Office

00:56:31.480 allegedly in 2008 to every

00:56:34.540 police force telling them

00:56:35.460 not to investigate these

00:56:36.740 grooming gangs and he said

00:56:39.680 that publicly and he is now

00:56:41.780 withdrawn that but I do not

00:56:44.120 believe for one moment that

00:56:45.440 he said that without having

00:56:46.800 seen that circular and I

00:56:49.040 believe that he has now been

00:56:50.140 silenced because he's been

00:56:51.180 told to be silent that would

00:56:52.820 show that you can't find that

00:56:54.900 circular anywhere but I

00:56:56.720 believe that this has been I

00:56:58.840 think that there was two

00:57:00.000 factors that have fed into it

00:57:01.600 the the fact that you you

00:57:03.240 girls didn't matter and the

00:57:05.320 second one was the racial

00:57:06.360 dynamics of the abusers and

00:57:08.460 they didn't want to rock the

00:57:09.900 multicultural boat and the

00:57:13.420 third part is the money it's a

00:57:15.480 lot cheaper to send Jade to

00:57:17.220 prison than it is to

00:57:18.600 investigate a whole very

00:57:21.460 organized network of

00:57:23.080 paedophiles so those three

00:57:25.240 things have meant it's

00:57:26.500 convenient to throw kids like

00:57:28.140 Jade on the bonfire and

00:57:29.920 and who's going to who's

00:57:31.520 going to say anything and

00:57:33.080 and the reality is that other

00:57:34.460 than a very small handful of

00:57:35.980 people like Anne Cryer like me

00:57:37.520 like Andrew Norfolk most

00:57:39.760 people have kept quiet about it

00:57:41.200 so actually it paid off they

00:57:43.080 have saved billions and

00:57:44.860 billions of pounds and they

00:57:46.980 have sacrificed children like

00:57:48.380 Jade on the altar of

00:57:50.060 political correctness so I

00:57:52.920 think those days are done you

00:57:54.620 can't sweep it back under the

00:57:55.780 carpet now it's out there and

00:57:58.260 nobody is going to be

00:57:59.500 silenced we're at the next

00:58:01.440 step now where they're trying

00:58:02.640 to pretend they're going to do

00:58:03.740 something actually they're not

00:58:05.360 doing very much and that's

00:58:07.640 where the battle now lies

00:58:08.900 have you had any contact with

00:58:11.400 the government I've talked to

00:58:13.620 most of them I've met Rishi

00:58:15.200 Sunat, Suala Bravman, Priti

00:58:16.780 Patel they talk the talk but

00:58:19.940 they go off the call they don't

00:58:21.460 walk the walk what about the

00:58:23.180 Labour government sorry Francis

00:58:24.360 the current government have

00:58:25.540 you had they been interested at

00:58:26.700 all they've never wrong me

00:58:28.280 there was you know there was a

00:58:31.260 meeting or and actually you know

00:58:33.540 what I don't buy into the

00:58:35.840 bullshit anymore I'm fed up of

00:58:37.560 having pointless conversations

00:58:38.660 with people it's a waste of my

00:58:40.480 time and I would rather focus my

00:58:43.220 mind on action I've been down

00:58:46.360 that road I've put my trust in

00:58:48.400 these people and I've wasted years

00:58:50.900 doing it I now look at you know we

00:58:53.640 look at we were talking when we on

00:58:54.920 the on the train there's a lot of

00:58:57.160 survivors have been to parliament

00:58:58.340 yesterday the day before I was in

00:59:00.640 that place maybe eight nine ten years

00:59:02.680 ago and I thought oh it's great

00:59:04.680 they're going to talk to me they're

00:59:05.720 going to do something I don't need

00:59:07.500 another inquiry to tell me what's

00:59:09.240 wrong but I respect that survivors

00:59:12.320 want their voices heard but it's I'm

00:59:15.660 not needed in that conversation my

00:59:18.280 knowledge is needed on the next bit

00:59:20.620 which is forcing change and they are

00:59:22.860 not going to do it because they think

00:59:24.520 it's the right thing to do they're

00:59:26.400 only going to do it if they are backed

00:59:28.620 in a corner and there is no way where

00:59:31.240 else to wriggle so that's that's what I

00:59:34.020 believe isn't that appalling isn't

00:59:38.080 that just appalling it's disgusting

00:59:41.780 girls have been raped and sexual

00:59:44.380 abused on an industrial scale and the

00:59:47.300 only way they're going to get justice

00:59:49.200 is if the politicians in your words get

00:59:53.140 backed in a corner and there's no way

00:59:55.240 to wriggle out of it that's true I you

00:59:58.140 know on my life I honestly believe that

01:00:01.060 is the truth and this action for

01:00:03.500 accountability I think that is the only

01:00:06.400 way you find your own evidence you bring

01:00:09.060 a private prosecution you show the

01:00:11.460 country what they are capable of and you

01:00:13.940 know today we're having this conversation

01:00:16.500 when we've just seen what they've done

01:00:18.320 with all the Afghanistani you know lying

01:00:20.520 and getting a super injunction look at

01:00:23.140 the post office scandal you know all those

01:00:25.680 people who went to prison and they

01:00:27.320 pretended that the you know the

01:00:29.680 government pretended that there was

01:00:31.000 nothing wrong it was I don't know how

01:00:34.960 these people sleep in bed at night I

01:00:36.880 don't get it and this is the thing

01:00:38.940 right I think we horrific as all of the

01:00:41.900 things you described I think we all

01:00:43.280 accept the institutions make mistakes

01:00:45.160 yeah things problems happen but it's

01:00:48.020 it's the lying about it it's the

01:00:49.560 covering up it's a pretending it didn't

01:00:51.080 happen it's the victimizing of the

01:00:52.740 already victimized that is just I don't

01:00:56.220 I I don't know has this changed your

01:00:59.200 your understanding of human nature do you

01:01:02.220 like because you you want to live in a

01:01:05.100 world where you think most people are

01:01:06.500 decent good people who are doing their

01:01:09.120 best and the right thing do you still

01:01:11.200 think that's true I think ordinary

01:01:14.360 people are generally decent I believe

01:01:17.760 that as people start to climb this

01:01:19.980 slippery pole up the ladder of whether

01:01:22.100 it's getting to chief constable or getting

01:01:24.360 to be the prime minister or the home

01:01:27.060 secretary you are being tested at each

01:01:29.420 each step up that ladder and you get to

01:01:32.840 a point where you have to decide am I

01:01:34.720 going to go with what my conscience tells

01:01:36.300 me is right or am I going to protect

01:01:38.380 this organization and if they can't

01:01:40.900 protect the organization they don't get

01:01:42.740 to the top of that slippery pole and

01:01:44.920 that's what I honestly believe you know

01:01:46.440 I feel like the further you get up that

01:01:48.100 pole the more corrupt it gets it's

01:01:50.780 interesting you say that it's

01:01:52.240 interesting you say that because I'm

01:01:53.300 from Russia as you know and in Russia

01:01:56.660 no no person at the top of the power

01:01:59.220 dynamic is immune from being charged with

01:02:02.000 like tax evasion or other crimes or

01:02:04.040 whatever mostly because if you are

01:02:06.860 allowed to get to that level they know

01:02:09.160 you've committed all those things

01:02:10.680 already so that they've they've tested

01:02:13.140 you for being liable to be exposed in

01:02:16.580 this way do you see what I'm what I'm

01:02:17.660 saying yeah and I guess what you're

01:02:19.180 saying is it's kind of like that in some

01:02:20.980 ways I would put my life on it and I

01:02:24.380 have not the slightest doubt in my mind

01:02:27.500 that that is true and I've come to that

01:02:29.980 conclusion through a lot of pain and a

01:02:32.640 lot of depression because it is I wish I

01:02:35.340 didn't know it and the other thing that

01:02:38.160 is in my mind a lot now is there is an

01:02:40.600 element of me that is a bit frightened

01:02:42.060 because you know when you're not wrapped

01:02:44.720 in any cages nobody bothers about you

01:02:46.860 I found myself in a position where I want

01:02:51.520 things to change for children we need them

01:02:55.020 to change they have to change but they're

01:02:57.900 not willingly going to change it and I

01:03:00.420 want somebody else to pick up this mantle

01:03:02.100 and fight this battle but I don't see

01:03:04.640 anybody else really you know my experience

01:03:07.080 and my learning of 20 years doesn't come

01:03:09.120 in two minutes so we've got people now

01:03:11.600 like Rupert Lowe for instance talking but

01:03:13.520 he hasn't got the knowledge and I spoke to

01:03:15.420 him in January I think he's a decent guy

01:03:17.880 I think what he's saying is really

01:03:20.280 connecting into the public psyche but you

01:03:25.500 need more than a desire to change things

01:03:28.520 you've got to have evidence and you've got

01:03:31.220 to have people who come to you because

01:03:33.480 they trust you so I think we're going in

01:03:36.620 the right direction yeah but all we can do

01:03:40.740 is try but I honestly believe that the

01:03:43.300 system is corrupt I mean was it Dominic

01:03:47.360 Cummings the other week who was talking

01:03:48.960 about you know when Andrew Norfolk did the

01:03:51.100 expose and was 20 the end of 2010 because I

01:03:56.140 was on the Rochdale job that the the cabinet

01:03:59.020 tried to get that that story blocked didn't

01:04:02.900 they and the Dominic Cummings and some

01:04:07.260 others were prepared to go to court to argue

01:04:11.280 the toss that it was true and that's the

01:04:13.180 only reason they let the Times publish it

01:04:15.040 problem is it's taken Dominic Cummings 15

01:04:18.940 years to say that he should have said that at

01:04:21.940 the time and that's what you don't get what

01:04:24.640 do you think this case Jade story tells us

01:04:28.920 about the UK as a whole because I'm listening

01:04:32.620 to it and I'm I'm gonna be honest it's not

01:04:37.320 making me think good things about the country

01:04:39.760 the education system that I've worked in for

01:04:42.540 over a decade I mean what do you think it

01:04:44.660 says about all of this there's a lot of

01:04:51.440 corruptness is what it says everything so

01:04:54.380 like I have no words I actually don't really

01:04:58.280 have no words I think we've lost our way I

01:05:00.740 think you know we've lost our way as a

01:05:03.860 country and I think that the country has

01:05:07.040 woken up to that I do I I honestly feel

01:05:11.660 wherever I go most many people recognize me I

01:05:16.460 have yet to have one conversation with

01:05:18.200 somebody who has comes up to me and says

01:05:20.240 you're talking a load of bullshit not one

01:05:23.480 person in 15 years I think that the cat's

01:05:27.780 out of the bag and I don't know how we're

01:05:31.580 going to reverse all the damage that's been

01:05:35.080 done I don't think you can but what you can

01:05:37.320 do is what you are doing which is try and

01:05:39.860 make sure this doesn't happen to anyone

01:05:41.380 else number one but Maggie talk to us

01:05:43.860 about you know we have people who watch

01:05:46.140 the show who who may be able to to do

01:05:48.500 things about this in the future what needs

01:05:51.580 to happen what needs to be done what are

01:05:53.780 the practical steps that can be done a to

01:05:57.140 number one make sure this doesn't happen

01:05:59.060 to any more children I think one of the

01:06:01.700 one of the first things and I said it in

01:06:04.000 an interview I had a bit of a set to with

01:06:06.220 somebody I think this is a non-party

01:06:09.100 political issue yes so they're like big

01:06:13.000 kids in Parliament scoring points and you

01:06:15.960 know they're like they're like little

01:06:17.960 kids in a bloody private school they are

01:06:20.660 running the country you have got children's

01:06:23.620 lives in your hands so stop messing about

01:06:28.560 accept that we are failing children and

01:06:32.220 look at how we put it right because you

01:06:33.960 can do it you know all the money that has

01:06:37.100 been wasted on COVID you know lining

01:06:38.920 pockets of people and the the cronies if

01:06:42.000 that had gone into child protection into

01:06:44.960 children's homes into policing you know

01:06:48.280 we're on our knees because nobody's invested

01:06:50.240 in our public services so we need investment

01:06:52.640 in public services but in this issue we need

01:06:56.460 cross-party collaboration with people with

01:07:00.320 survivors like Jade with experts like me who

01:07:03.520 genuinely want to change things what

01:07:06.960 happens though is they listen they don't

01:07:09.400 really want to change it because they

01:07:11.260 won't put the money in and they hope it's

01:07:13.340 going to go away but it won't I believe

01:07:16.020 where we're such a multicultural country I

01:07:18.980 feel like they don't want to do anything for

01:07:20.820 the votes as well so like where because it's

01:07:23.820 such a high there's such a high percentage

01:07:29.500 of Pakistani people in this country I

01:07:33.580 believe that they do it for the votes and

01:07:34.840 they don't want to be racist because they

01:07:36.060 don't they're not going to get the votes

01:07:37.780 that's what I personally believe because if

01:07:41.060 they started doing all this all these

01:07:43.300 rape gangs all these Pakistani rape

01:07:46.020 gangs all these Pakistanis ain't going to

01:07:48.100 vote for them so then they're not going to

01:07:49.580 get the votes because there's a high

01:07:50.580 percentage of that culture in this

01:07:52.260 country I mean I personally believe that

01:07:55.360 a hundred percent I mean I've tried to

01:07:59.200 take this conversation further than just

01:08:01.500 the grooming gangs because as we see

01:08:05.060 unprecedented levels of immigration to

01:08:08.740 this country the vast majority and it's a

01:08:11.260 very emotion emotive subject yeah you see

01:08:18.360 all the these boats arriving and bringing

01:08:20.780 all these young men in who don't share

01:08:23.200 our values they are actually of the

01:08:26.120 mindset of of Jay's rapists they're not

01:08:28.840 educated they don't speak the language

01:08:30.860 they are being put in hotels all around

01:08:33.780 the country they have different beliefs

01:08:35.380 in their country yeah they believe that

01:08:37.200 they believe some some of them believe

01:08:39.880 that if a girl starts their period at the

01:08:41.400 age of nine that it's okay to then marry

01:08:43.560 them off and that they're old enough to

01:08:45.820 have sex at the age of nine no no you're

01:08:48.240 not that's absolutely disgusting in this

01:08:50.340 country at 16 and even that is still

01:08:52.240 young it should be 18 yeah so those

01:08:54.760 attitudes and those belief systems and

01:08:56.960 different cultures we can't allow those

01:09:00.660 to flourish in the UK but we have to have

01:09:05.380 the conversations to work out how we're

01:09:07.840 going to address it we all know that

01:09:09.380 there's there's bad in everyone we all

01:09:12.920 know that there's white paedophiles we

01:09:14.940 all know that there's black paedophiles

01:09:16.140 Chinese paedophiles like they're

01:09:17.380 everywhere wherever you go you're going

01:09:18.840 to get a paedophile what we're trying to

01:09:20.880 say as survivors of rape gangs is that we

01:09:24.760 all got abused by that one one thing it's

01:09:27.880 not a racial thing at all I've got my

01:09:30.480 children I've got two children that are

01:09:32.560 caught Pakistani so it's not a race thing

01:09:35.780 at all it is so glad you said that it is

01:09:38.360 what who we got abused by yeah how can I

01:09:41.200 be racist when I've got Pakistan children

01:09:42.640 yeah no I'm so glad I mean it's definitely

01:09:44.960 not a race thing it's a factual thing of

01:09:46.880 what's really important yeah yeah that's

01:09:49.360 what I'm saying I'm so glad you said that

01:09:50.700 Jade because you're right that we live in

01:09:53.120 a very multicultural or what I don't like

01:09:55.740 the term multicultural society we live in

01:09:57.640 a multi-ethnic society there are many

01:09:59.140 different people from different groups

01:10:00.640 but actually we shouldn't have a

01:10:02.360 multicultural society which have one

01:10:04.000 culture which is British culture and

01:10:06.380 within that it's really important that

01:10:09.560 we're super honest like I'm an immigrant

01:10:11.300 myself right and we should be very

01:10:13.320 honest and say not all immigrants are

01:10:15.280 the same different cultures are different

01:10:16.620 different cultures have different

01:10:17.860 value systems right and most importantly

01:10:20.180 if something is being done by one

01:10:22.760 particular group we should be very

01:10:24.240 careful not to scapegoat those people

01:10:26.000 but at the same time we should not shy

01:10:27.860 away from the reality and that's really

01:10:29.820 important otherwise that's when you

01:10:32.000 actually are going to encourage racism

01:10:33.560 and that's what's happened here and

01:10:34.680 that's what's happened here yeah right

01:10:35.840 we should be very very honest if one

01:10:38.400 particular group is overrepresented we

01:10:40.480 have to find out why that is now we've

01:10:42.800 had people on the show to talk about the

01:10:44.380 fact that it's not just Pakistanis but

01:10:46.000 it's actually Pakistanis from a very

01:10:47.300 particular area of Pakistan which is

01:10:49.980 perhaps culturally more backward it's

01:10:52.000 mountainous so it's isolated that's kind

01:10:53.900 of repeated through history really

01:10:55.120 mountainous cultures tend to be much more

01:10:57.120 backward in that way so we've just got to

01:11:00.060 have these conversations honestly so that

01:11:02.140 justice a happens in in cases like this

01:11:05.680 but also so that we don't have these

01:11:07.320 problems in the future and also if we are

01:11:09.900 going to live together in one country

01:11:11.980 black white brown or whatever the only

01:11:14.520 way to do that is to be honest because

01:11:16.300 the moment you start covering things up

01:11:17.840 that's when people start having ideas

01:11:19.720 about things like that generalizing and

01:11:22.440 this has been a really terrible thing that

01:11:25.760 happened to you and to other girls but

01:11:27.840 it's also a terrible thing for our

01:11:29.140 country i mean what what i would say

01:11:31.000 constantly i mean when i first started

01:11:32.680 speaking out it's true that the vast

01:11:35.020 majority of the abusers in these gangs are

01:11:37.600 pakistani muslim men those who were not

01:11:40.600 are still muslim but they are they can be

01:11:43.680 afghanistani or iranian or from iraq but

01:11:46.580 like you say from very um kind of from an

01:11:50.020 underclass in those countries and they

01:11:52.780 have a different belief system and they

01:11:54.760 feel and entitled and that they can rape

01:11:59.080 vulnerable children so we have to open up

01:12:02.740 those conversations um but if people come

01:12:06.760 to this country the laws of this country

01:12:10.720 are what we live by and we cannot um avoid

01:12:15.180 the difficult conversations and what's

01:12:17.120 happened with this it's been brushed under

01:12:19.320 the carpet that's when that's when extremists

01:12:23.740 hijack a conversation because nobody else is

01:12:28.480 is brave enough to have them but i see in

01:12:32.220 this country at the moment um freedom of

01:12:35.040 speech is critically important to me

01:12:37.080 you and whether it you know i would speak

01:12:40.020 to anybody from any faith any background any

01:12:43.300 belief system left right middle wherever

01:12:45.420 because you learn and you compromise but

01:12:49.520 what's happened with this is there have not

01:12:51.280 been those conversations i was having them

01:12:53.500 when nobody else would speak i remember going

01:12:55.940 on the today program and they were talking

01:12:58.260 about asian grooming gangs and i said well

01:13:00.140 hang on a minute you know that they're not

01:13:02.120 from thailand or japan or china they are

01:13:05.300 predominantly pakistani muslim men the other

01:13:08.560 key part just before i forget because it goes

01:13:10.460 out my head the other key part which is one of

01:13:13.400 the big things i'm fighting for is that there

01:13:15.560 is no mandatory recording of the of the data

01:13:19.280 around sexual abuse any kind of data so nobody

01:13:23.520 can provide statistics or and the reason

01:13:27.700 they've done that i highlighted that to the

01:13:29.740 home office in 2013 the reason they don't is

01:13:33.200 because they don't want the facts to show

01:13:35.200 what the truth is but we know what the truth

01:13:37.920 is we know what the truth is now but it's

01:13:40.240 taken 15 years for me to persuade people that

01:13:44.000 that's the reality why are they not you know

01:13:46.880 you'd know how many burglaries there were in

01:13:48.960 your street wouldn't you it would just be

01:13:50.980 there on a date on a database this is a

01:13:53.460 deliberate um attempt to muddy the waters

01:13:57.040 and they think they're helping people but

01:13:58.640 they're not helping they're not helping and

01:14:00.460 they're not protecting the people they think

01:14:01.880 they're protecting like um there is a uh the

01:14:05.360 taxi driver that i use in my town it's it's a

01:14:08.080 afghani company yeah my wife and son use

01:14:11.400 that taxi company all the time if if my

01:14:13.740 wife was passed out in the back of a taxi

01:14:15.320 there's no one i'd rather drive her than

01:14:16.980 the guy who because he's a great guy yeah and

01:14:18.920 a lot of the people that work with him

01:14:20.320 they're wonderful people but they are

01:14:22.240 precisely the people that are going to

01:14:23.740 suffer from cover-ups like this because

01:14:25.780 people will make generalizations absolutely

01:14:27.920 if people cover things up that's why

01:14:29.740 honesty is so important in this i mean the

01:14:32.320 the other um part of that is in my charity

01:14:35.400 and actually even when i was in the police

01:14:36.840 you know but now in the charity we have

01:14:39.400 women from those communities coming to us

01:14:42.500 for help because within those communities

01:14:45.460 women are a second-class citizen many of

01:14:48.840 them don't speak english they are very

01:14:50.720 isolated they are um there is abuse

01:14:54.420 within that community but it's hidden

01:14:56.480 you know we've got inter-family marriages

01:14:59.520 where there is a very very high percentage

01:15:02.100 of very disabled children those conversations

01:15:05.960 have to be had and you know we're not helping

01:15:09.360 those women in that community they come to

01:15:11.940 us because we are seen as outside of their

01:15:15.020 community we're safe and even in the police

01:15:18.200 i was working on cases where i remember one

01:15:21.400 case where a girl young girl was an eyewitness

01:15:24.900 to a murder and she was not allowed officially

01:15:27.420 to speak to the police so those are conversations

01:15:30.640 we have to have because there's good and bad everywhere

01:15:33.460 but when they are bad and they are raping children

01:15:36.180 i'm sorry if you want to call me racist for saying that

01:15:40.100 call it me but i'm not it's about child protection

01:15:43.940 it's about the law it's about the laws of our country

01:15:47.100 and we have to stand up for those laws and those who are

01:15:50.160 looking at being voted in like you've just said

01:15:52.420 if they won't do their job properly we have to do it for them

01:15:55.760 and you know um expose what's going on if we went to a different country

01:15:59.860 and done what they're doing to our country we'll get killed straight away

01:16:04.100 like we need we need that here

01:16:07.420 so like the brutal we're our government sorry to say our

01:16:12.120 pussies compared to every other country like even our justice system

01:16:16.760 are pussies compared to every other country

01:16:18.360 they wouldn't think twice about shooting us if we went over there and raped one of their kids

01:16:23.060 no so why why do these lot don't even get sentenced to two years

01:16:26.760 half of them walk or get nfa they don't even want to look into it

01:16:30.540 you get longer for putting something you know a naughty tweet on on twitter don't you

01:16:33.840 yeah it's a joke

01:16:34.700 you know the girl who what was her name

01:16:35.940 lucy connolly

01:16:36.320 lucy connolly

01:16:37.000 oh yeah she's in prison for putting in that little tweet

01:16:40.260 that the guy who got ruby pregnant he was out of prison

01:16:43.620 you know she's a 13 year old child with special needs we had a fetus

01:16:46.680 she was out of prison and just over he was out of prison just over three years

01:16:50.440 it just makes my blood boil and we have to we have to change the direction of travel

01:16:57.120 and because it's a really important point you made there about these abusers and within their

01:17:03.540 own community because if somebody is a pedophile who is a rapist chances are he's not going to

01:17:10.700 channel those instincts in one particular direction he's going to be a threat wherever he goes

01:17:16.600 that's on the streets that's our children's homes or schools and that's also within his own home

01:17:22.560 absolutely

01:17:23.280 absolutely

01:17:23.840 and the fact that these people weren't prosecuted means that actually you're also making vulnerable

01:17:31.500 children in that community

01:17:33.460 absolutely

01:17:34.020 you're putting their lives in danger

01:17:35.340 absolutely

01:17:36.160 um i think

01:17:37.920 it's about priorities at the end of the day

01:17:41.500 um and you know we have to have other conversations about what kind of people are in the prisons

01:17:47.460 you know what crimes do we not need prison for and you know i would argue that lucy connolly shouldn't be in prison

01:17:53.820 that's my opinion

01:17:55.480 you know we are using the law you know last year in the charity we'd spotted a pattern of behavior

01:18:00.540 where vulnerable women actually and a couple of men were being unlawfully arrested unlawfully strip searched

01:18:06.820 because they were daring to challenge the police about their investigations so they were targeted

01:18:13.260 they're the kind of things that we need to be stopping

01:18:16.680 you know free up the prison places for the for pedophiles and those who who are destroying lives

01:18:24.720 you know i mean a conversation around around drugs is another one i think we need as a country at some point

01:18:30.980 because many addicts will rob a phone because they're an addict

01:18:37.360 you know we've got to have different difficult conversations

01:18:40.680 um but that costs votes

01:18:43.880 yeah

01:18:44.600 and that's why they won't have them

01:18:46.400 you know we need more prison places

01:18:48.620 we need a better criminal justice system

01:18:51.320 we need social services to protect children

01:18:54.100 um you know children of 11 shouldn't be put in a children's home with kids of 15 and 16

01:19:00.380 that are already very very damaged

01:19:04.660 um there's so many layers to this aren't there

01:19:08.560 and what we need above all i think is honesty

01:19:10.440 yeah people to be honest about things instead of covering them up and pretending they're not happening

01:19:14.780 uh thank you so much both of you coming on

01:19:17.420 uh maggie uh you're doing really important work with the maggie oliver foundation

01:19:21.540 we're not um whenever we've had these conversations we've never put any adverts and we don't like the idea of making money from these type of discussions

01:19:28.540 so if anybody wants to contribute financially they should send it straight to the

01:19:33.180 just go to our website

01:19:34.820 maggieoliverfoundation.com

01:19:36.340 and jay thank you for taking the time and for sharing your story

01:19:39.400 it is a terrible story to share

01:19:41.120 and it's terrible what you went through

01:19:42.940 but i'm really glad you're doing it

01:19:44.740 um not only because it's

01:19:46.140 getting the word out there for people to really understand

01:19:48.820 what's going on but also it seems to be making a really good impact on you

01:19:52.140 actually

01:19:52.700 to feel more empowered

01:19:54.180 to to be able to tell people and prevent this from happening to other people

01:19:57.540 thank you for having me

01:19:58.340 thank you both we're going to ask you questions from our supporters that they've submitted

01:20:01.280 but we really appreciate your time

01:20:02.740 thank you

01:20:03.080 thank you

01:20:03.580 head on over to triggerpod.co.uk

01:20:05.520 to hear our discussion with your questions

01:20:07.620 are some areas and streets of many of our big cities and towns being made systematically hostile for women

01:20:15.400 by the aggression of he says muslim men and how do we combat this

TRIGGERnometry - July 27, 2025

Grooming Gang Survivor Tells Her Story

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