TRIGGERnometry - How Do We Stop Bad Ideas Destroying the West？ Gad Saad

00:00:00.100 Believe me, we will wake up in 50 or 100 years and say, how did this happen?

00:00:05.700 And if people have a copy of this conversation, they will know how it happened.

00:00:09.740 It's because of cowardice. It's because of apathy.

00:00:12.780 It's because of diffusion of responsibility onto others that these idea pathogens proliferate.

00:00:17.920 If we all talk against them, we will solve the problem by next weekend.

00:00:21.580 hello and welcome to trigonometry i'm francis foster i'm constantine kissin and this is a

00:00:34.420 show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people it does not get any

00:00:40.600 more fascinating than the brilliant returning guest we have for you today he's an evolutionary

00:00:44.780 psychologist youtuber all sorts of great things and of course the author of the parasitic mind

00:00:50.740 Gadsad, welcome back.

00:00:52.340 Oh, so good to be with you guys.

00:00:53.980 Thank you.

00:00:54.280 They call you the Godfather.

00:00:55.900 It's so great to have you back on the show and blessing us with your presence.

00:00:59.500 Tell us, last time we spoke about your book, The Parasitic Mind, which is about how bad

00:01:03.620 ideas, idea pathogens, as you call them, are destroying the West.

00:01:07.500 It's been about 18 months since we last had our conversation.

00:01:11.800 Have things got better or worse?

00:01:14.400 Worse in that Justin Trudeau got reelected. 0.96

00:01:18.460 So the walking manifestation of every idea pathogen covered in the parasitic mind 0.97

00:01:25.020 is still Prime Minister of Canada. 0.99

00:01:27.280 You can't keep a good black man down, Gat. 0.99

00:01:30.040 You can't keep a good black man down, exactly. 0.99

00:01:32.500 For those of you who don't know the genesis of that joke, 0.96

00:01:37.100 basically Justin Trudeau gets caught in blackface roughly every 15 minutes.

00:01:42.760 And then, of course, we have Joe Biden and Kamala Harris,

00:01:47.320 who are now the folks in power in the United States.

00:01:52.300 So I'm kind of conflicted.

00:01:54.360 On the one hand, I'm upset that these realities exist.

00:01:58.660 On the other hand, it's only more good business for my book

00:02:02.260 because the more you have insane politicians who are leading the way,

00:02:06.740 the more my book is evergreen.

00:02:09.900 Well, we're sort of talking about it in a lighthearted way,

00:02:13.360 but for people who are maybe coming to some of your ideas for the first time,

00:02:16.740 Just give everybody a bit of an overview, Gad.

00:02:18.960 When you talk about idea pathogens and you talk about the election of Joe Biden over Donald Trump, the election of Justin Trudeau, re-election of Justin Trudeau over his opponents, you know, what are you talking about?

00:02:30.860 When you say idea pathogens, what do you mean?

00:02:33.520 Right. So first, maybe it's worthwhile repeating why I use the metaphor of parasitic mind, right?

00:02:40.320 So as an evolutionist, one of the things that I do is that I oftentimes, when I'm trying to study a human phenomenon, I then try to look for homologous phenomena in the animal kingdom.

00:02:54.080 And so in this case, I wanted to find a way to root the concepts that I was discussing in the book, which I'll talk about in a second, in an animal context.

00:03:05.720 So in the animal kingdom, you have many cases of parasites, of course, that will infect a host.

00:03:11.740 The sub-branch called neuroparasitology is when the parasite will end up in a host's brain,

00:03:19.580 altering its circuitry and behavior to suit the benefits of the parasite.

00:03:25.420 So Toxoplasma gondii, the mouse that is infected with it, will lose its innate fear of cats.

00:03:31.500 As a matter of fact, it will become attracted to the cat's urine.

00:03:35.720 which is not a really good thing for a mouse to be attracted to.

00:03:38.780 So there are many, many examples in the animal kingdom

00:03:41.420 where a host will engage in irrational, maladaptive behavior.

00:03:46.400 So I had found the framework that I would use to then argue,

00:03:50.260 well, human beings can be parasitized by actual brain worms like Toxoplasma Gandhi,

00:03:55.980 but there's another class of pathogens that can parasitize our minds,

00:04:00.260 and I call those idea pathogen.

00:04:02.420 But they ultimately end up with the same outcome,

00:04:04.660 which is if you're parasitized by these bad ideas, you no longer can think clearly, you no longer

00:04:11.280 engage in common sense, in reality, you engage in irrational behaviors in the service of the

00:04:18.060 proliferation of those idea pathogens. Now, what are examples of these idea pathogens? There are

00:04:23.660 many that I discuss in the book. Let's start with probably the granddaddy of them all.

00:04:27.600 Now, postmodernism is a dreadful idea pathogen because it is intellectual terrorism.

00:04:35.760 It is a rejection of the epistemology of truth.

00:04:39.100 It basically says there are no objective truths.

00:04:42.420 We are shackled by our personal biases.

00:04:45.000 We are shackled by subjectivity.

00:04:47.120 To therefore talk about some truth is silly because there is no such truth.

00:04:51.940 Well, that's perfectly anti-scientific, right?

00:04:54.580 because scientists do wake up every day

00:04:56.380 thinking that there are natural truths to be discovered.

00:04:59.760 Of course, in science, we have provisional truths,

00:05:02.080 meaning what was true 300 years ago

00:05:04.420 may no longer be true today,

00:05:05.800 but we do operate under the epistemological premise

00:05:09.060 that there are truths to be discovered.

00:05:11.020 Postmodernism says there is no such thing.

00:05:13.880 Maybe I could give you one or two other pathogens.

00:05:16.060 Yeah, go for it.

00:05:18.320 So that intellectually terroristic framework

00:05:22.240 then allows for a whole subset of other idea pathogens to proliferate.

00:05:27.780 Take, for example, the idea pathogen of social constructivism,

00:05:31.480 which basically says that there are no innate biological blueprints.

00:05:36.280 There are no instinctual imperatives.

00:05:39.900 Everything that we are stems from tabula rasa.

00:05:43.280 We're born empty slates.

00:05:44.520 And it's only our unique socialization that makes us who we are.

00:05:47.880 So if Bubba can bench press more weights than Linda, it's not because there might be any morphological, anatomical, physiological, hormonal differences between men and women.

00:06:00.300 It must be because he was socialized to play rough and tumble when he was a kid and Linda wasn't.

00:06:06.020 Right. So we we root everything in social construction.

00:06:09.300 Well, that's a lovely message because it presumes that we are all born with equal potentiality, but it's also a perfectly nonsensical message.

00:06:16.940 So I basically in the book go through all of these idea pathogens. I demonstrate how they've all been, they've all started, they were all spawned within the university ecosystem. And then towards the end of the book, I offer a vaccine against these ideas.

00:06:32.640 yes. Gad, let me ask you something. I love the way you talked about equal potentiality because

00:06:38.340 I think this is a lot of where this may come from, which is these ideas. First, as you said,

00:06:44.900 you eradicate the idea that there's a truth to be found via postmodernism. And then you furnish

00:06:51.480 people with ideas that make them feel good because the truth is often unpleasant. We're not all

00:06:58.360 equal. We're not born with equal potentiality. But if you want to feel good about the world,

00:07:03.060 if you want to feel that, you know, you are where you are, not because of some inherent failings or

00:07:07.840 disadvantages that you were simply born with, but rather because society is evil and oppressive and

00:07:12.640 whatever, then these ideas all make sense. So how much of this is simply about creating a framework

00:07:17.960 where you can get ideas in that just sound and make us feel really good about ourselves?

00:07:23.300 So it's partly that. So let me back up and answer your question in a much broader way. When I was trying to look for commonalities across these idea pathogens, I thought, okay, well, each of these pathogens has a different structure to it, but is there any commonality?

00:07:45.160 So then I, again, went to analogize with cancer in this case.

00:07:50.540 If you look at cancer, each manifestation of cancer takes on a different trajectory.

00:07:56.520 Leukemia is different than liver cancer, which is different than melanoma.

00:08:00.020 But they do have one thing in common.

00:08:02.300 They all have unchecked cell division.

00:08:05.340 So notwithstanding all the differences of various manifestations of cancers, we could

00:08:11.120 find something that is common across all of them.

00:08:13.200 The same principle applies with these idea pathogens. While they manifest themselves in different ways, what is common to them, and hence this will answer your question, what is common to them is that they start with some noble cause, which then metamorphosizes into nonsense in the service of that noble cause, right?

00:08:36.100 So for example, if I am a militant feminist, I start off with the cause, there should be equality of the sexes, which makes perfect sense in terms of equality under the law. But then I say, in the pursuit of that noble goal, I must create a worldview that says that men and women are indistinguishable from each other. 0.86

00:08:59.660 Because in promulgating that message, it will hopefully allow me to better fight the sexist patriarchal status quo.

00:09:08.040 So it's a form of consequentialist ethics, which basically says it's okay to distort and murder the truth in the service, in the consequences of a noble goal.

00:09:19.060 So whether the noble goal is to make a group feel better, make an individual feel better, it's okay to rape and murder truth in the pursuit of that noble lie.

00:09:29.660 And of course, I argue that I could chew gum and walk at the same time.

00:09:33.460 I could be totally supportive of noble justice, social justice goals, while never ceding a

00:09:41.040 millimeter of the truth.

00:09:43.380 But Gad, surely we're talking about the truth, but doesn't morality also come into play

00:09:50.420 and how the fact that what we perceive to be good in one society might not be perceived

00:09:56.160 to be good in another?

00:09:57.840 Is there such a thing as universal truth? Maybe with science, but with other things, maybe not.

00:10:04.900 Well, I think it's a universal truth that it's not a good idea to cut off the clitorises of 1.00

00:10:11.800 little girls. That's a universal truth. Regrettably, if you've been parasitized by the 0.99

00:10:18.880 idea pathogen of cultural and moral relativism, the statement that I just said becomes a contentious

00:10:26.160 one because who are you to judge the unique and exotic uh moral framework of other cultures you

00:10:34.160 disgusting cultural imperialists right so there look in for most things in life there are certain

00:10:41.240 global phenomena that are true across the world and there are local phenomena that are uh contingent 0.86

00:10:48.500 on you know culture specific contingencies so let me give you an example uh from from my you know

00:10:55.060 evolutionary word. It is a universal truth that humans have evolved the taste buds,

00:11:03.020 the customary preferences to prefer high caloric foods over raw celery. So most humans prefer a

00:11:13.000 juicy steak or a chocolate mousse to raw celery. That's a universal truth. On the other hand,

00:11:19.240 how much spices we use in different cuisines is locally determined. And as a matter of fact,

00:11:26.180 it is locally determined based on an evolutionary principle. The more hot weather a culture is in,

00:11:32.540 the more spice use you have in that culture, because cuisine turns out to be a cultural

00:11:38.160 adaptation to a biological problem. The biological problem is cultures that are in hotter climates

00:11:45.280 are more likely to have foodborne pathogens and that proliferate more quickly. Therefore,

00:11:51.720 the use of spice becomes an adaptive evolutionary solution to a local environment. So yes, there are

00:11:58.740 moral edicts that might be more or less specific to a cultural setting, but to argue that there 0.95

00:12:05.900 are no universal principles that transcend all cultures is the height of imbecility. For example, 0.95

00:12:11.700 incest avoidance is a universal taboo right there are no cultures that say hey

00:12:19.420 mommies please when as soon as your son becomes of a sexually mature age start having massive 0.99

00:12:26.520 carnal sex with him that's a wonderful way to organize society so the idea that everything 0.96

00:12:31.560 is culturally relative is just nonsensical i was gonna say you've clearly never been to wales gad 0.86

00:12:36.800 Well, we've lost all our Welsh viewers, all three of them now. Excellent. 1.00

00:12:44.520 So that being the case, why is it these pathogens are so attractive? Why is it that you have so

00:12:50.980 many people not only digesting them or ingesting them, I should say, but also regurgitating?

00:12:57.280 And why are they so virulent? Well, because most people are cognitive misers,

00:13:04.060 meaning that they don't put in the hard work to think, and therefore it becomes a lot more

00:13:09.480 alluring to succumb to my emotional system. So one of the things that I talk about in chapter

00:13:16.100 two of The Parasitic Mind is the distinction between thinking versus feeling. Now, I make

00:13:21.440 a very important distinction here, namely that the dichotomy is actually a false one. It's not that

00:13:29.340 we are a reasoning animal or a thinking animal. We are both. The challenge is to know when to

00:13:35.960 activate which system. So when, for example, I am taking a shortcut down a dark alley to get home

00:13:43.920 more quickly, and I see four young men loitering around. Yes, and I said men because I recognize

00:13:49.900 that there's a statistical regularity for young men to be more dangerous than elderly female nuns.

00:13:57.280 And that's not ageist or sexist. 0.65

00:13:59.860 It's called having a brain.

00:14:01.820 It's nonist is what it is.

00:14:03.260 It's nonist, exactly.

00:14:04.840 So in that case, when I'm taking the shortcut

00:14:07.660 and I see those young, sinister looking young men,

00:14:11.700 I will have a fear-based response.

00:14:13.960 My heart rate will start going up.

00:14:16.580 My blood pressure will go up.

00:14:18.840 It's a emotional response, but that's perfectly adaptive.

00:14:23.560 On the other hand, if I'm trying to solve a calculus problem,

00:14:26.340 and I activate my emotional system rather than my cognitive system, I'm probably not going to do

00:14:31.780 very well on that calculus exam. So the challenge is to make sure that you activate the right system

00:14:37.560 at the right time. Therein lies the problem. So to answer your question, Francis, the reason why

00:14:43.060 those people are succumbing to those idea pathogens is because those idea pathogens take over our

00:14:49.720 emotional system, right? So, for example, it is really empathetic and truly John Lennon

00:14:56.600 imagined kumbaya to say, isn't it racist to have closed borders? Shouldn't the lovely

00:15:04.080 hundred thousand Hondurans who are looking for a better world be allowed to come in and benefit

00:15:11.460 from the magic of a Western first world developed economy? Well, I mean, yes.

00:15:19.720 Also, it's bad that some children are starving in Rwanda, but I've also evolved the discriminatory

00:15:30.320 mechanism that says I have to invest in my children more so than random children around

00:15:35.840 the world, right?

00:15:37.020 So therefore, I am logical.

00:15:38.860 I recognize that while it is tragic that other children are suffering, it makes perfect

00:15:43.560 adaptive sense that I spend my efforts investing in my own children, right?

00:15:47.960 Well, progressives don't have that nuanced thinking. It is empathetic to allow all people. Open borders is empathy. Closed border is Himmler. So it's a form of kindergarten thinking.

00:16:05.240 Evan Syed wrote a book on how liberals are engaging in a form of kindergarten logic.

00:16:12.360 Why?

00:16:12.660 Because young children go through cognitive developmental stages where early in their

00:16:17.980 development, they're unable to engage in nuanced thinking.

00:16:21.940 And then they grow up and they see the world in the shades of gray that the world exists

00:16:27.420 in.

00:16:27.660 Well, the feel-good platitudes of the idea pathogens and why they are alluring, as you

00:16:33.500 asked, Francis, is because it feels good. I like the idea that my son could be the next Lionel

00:16:41.560 Messi or the next Albert Einstein. I don't like the idea that Michael Jordan might have been born

00:16:48.480 with an a priori advantage over my kids. So social constructivism is hopeful. It triggers my

00:16:55.720 emotional system as a parent. Therefore, I will buy into that rather than the shackles of reality,

00:17:03.000 which is a form of Nazism.

00:17:05.780 Gad, when you talk about the shackles of reality,

00:17:08.200 I think we unshackled ourselves extensively

00:17:11.620 over the past 18 months since we last spoke to you,

00:17:14.840 pre the pandemic, pre the death of George Floyd,

00:17:17.700 pre the BLM protests that happened, et cetera.

00:17:21.160 So now that we've recapped some of your key themes of the book,

00:17:26.660 talk to us about the real world.

00:17:28.480 What have you seen over the last 18 months

00:17:31.520 that has really made you pause?

00:17:34.200 Have you seen improvements?

00:17:35.400 Have you seen deterioration?

00:17:36.660 Just give us a kind of overall view of things.

00:17:39.560 Sure.

00:17:40.000 Look, generally speaking,

00:17:41.860 the idea pathogens continue to proliferate

00:17:44.540 at an alarmingly fast rate.

00:17:46.240 So in that sense, it's not good.

00:17:48.460 The news is that it's not,

00:17:49.860 I'm not here to be the purveyor of good news.

00:17:52.100 But let me be optimistic by then stating

00:17:55.580 that there is a slow fight back

00:18:01.240 against some of this nonsense.

00:18:02.640 So if you look, for example,

00:18:03.700 at what's happening in the United States

00:18:05.500 with a lot of the parents

00:18:06.940 who are showing righteous indignation

00:18:09.260 against all of the nonsense

00:18:11.100 that their kids are being taught,

00:18:13.600 six months ago, eight months ago,

00:18:15.460 this wasn't happening.

00:18:16.620 So someone like Christopher Rufo,

00:18:18.400 I'm not sure if you guys,

00:18:19.360 do you know who that is?

00:18:19.960 We've had him on the show recently.

00:18:21.400 Oh, wonderful.

00:18:22.060 Great guy.

00:18:22.700 He's also been on my show.

00:18:23.860 uh you know it fell into his lap right he he hadn't planned on being the you know the anti

00:18:30.440 crt crusader that he's become but some people sent him some uh you know confidential information

00:18:36.880 and then he was off and running and now he's doing great work trying to empower people to

00:18:41.760 fight back so i think that you know while the while certainly at the institutional levels

00:18:47.900 the idea pathogens have not yet been extinguished i think it'll take a while for that to happen

00:18:52.820 you are starting to see organized, you know, fighting back against some of these idea pathogens.

00:18:59.240 So I think while we are still in the throes of a deep, you know, culture war, deep, you know, ideological divide, deep battle of ideas,

00:19:08.360 as I always say, and as I, you know, mentioned in Chapter 8 of The Parasitic Mind, people have to activate their inner honey badger.

00:19:16.800 They have to be ideologically fierce.

00:19:18.700 You know, they have to stand their ground when they're fighting for their rights, when they're fighting for truth.

00:19:23.480 And if they do that, I truly think that if you have me on again in a few months, then hopefully we'll have even more optimism to share.

00:19:32.040 Gad, why was it? So when, to me, the turning point came when George Floyd was murdered, that video was sent around the world.

00:19:41.840 Now, obviously, it's a shocking video and it's vile and it's awful and the policeman's actions were completely indefensible.

00:19:48.700 But why is it that had such an enormous impact, not just in America, which is understandable, but in Canada, in the UK, all around the world?

00:19:58.840 We had it in our country where our police aren't even armed, the vast majority of them anyway.

00:20:04.540 Look, humans are prone to episodic memory, right?

00:20:09.920 So, for example, if I were to ask you, where were you when you heard of 9-11?

00:20:18.700 pretty much everyone who is old enough to actually remember a memory would be able to exactly tell

00:20:26.140 you. And that's known as an episodic memory, right? It really becomes. So, of course, people

00:20:33.140 could say, where were you when you heard that JFK was assassinated? Well, none of us in this room

00:20:37.520 was born at that point. But someone who's old enough could say, oh, I remember exactly where

00:20:41.960 I was. And I could tell you where I was when 9-11 happened. Exactly. I mean, almost to the T.

00:20:48.700 In some cases, you might remember episodic memory

00:20:51.340 of when you first heard a song

00:20:53.340 that has become your all-time favorite song

00:20:55.400 or how you met your spouse.

00:20:57.720 Well, the George Floyd video is so grotesque.

00:21:02.740 It becomes an episodic memory

00:21:05.900 that all of us can exactly remember

00:21:09.140 what we were thinking,

00:21:11.220 what we were doing when we saw it.

00:21:12.720 The problem, though, comes in

00:21:15.460 when, again, the emotional system

00:21:17.920 hijacks our capacity to think. Yes, it's a very powerful image. Yes, it's one that will become

00:21:25.440 part of the indelible nature of my long-term memory to think back of this grotesque snuffing

00:21:31.460 out of a human life in front of your eyes. But then I'm not a kindergartner. I'm able to say,

00:21:39.620 is this an endemic story? Is this what's happening across the United States every day, right? Well,

00:21:47.240 if I have a functioning brain, if I can look at data, I could separate the horrors of that imagery

00:21:55.060 from the eventual narrative that happens. Most people, being cognitivizers, can't. Therefore,

00:22:02.980 when LeBron James says, I am afraid to leave my house in Malibu to go to staple centers to play

00:22:09.920 with the LA Lakers because the police are hunting me down. And it's, you know, I always feel ashamed

00:22:17.460 at the horrors of what I went through in the Lebanese civil war when I escaped execution

00:22:22.620 in comparison to the horrors that LeBron James is facing. He's got to take his own life in his hands

00:22:30.060 to take that incredibly dangerous road from Malibu to Staples. Imagine what a whiny pig I am 1.00

00:22:37.340 to complain about what we went through in Lebanon compared to the genocide that LeBron is facing 0.98

00:22:44.480 every day. So that's why the George Floyd becomes so powerful, because you take a truly grotesque

00:22:50.540 episodic memory and you then, in an incredibly silly way, generalize it to an existential

00:22:59.480 zeitgeist. Well, it isn't true. There is no genocide that's happening in the United States of,

00:23:04.720 I hate the term people of color. That's simply not true. But yet, it triggers my emotional system.

00:23:12.980 I get enraged. Hashtag BLM, down, down, white police. 0.97

00:23:18.580 And Gad, another area where you talked about, you know, the erosion of truth and the replacement

00:23:23.340 with things that make us feel good and an area of specialization for you personally is gender

00:23:28.940 and toys. And there was a law recently in California sticking very much with California.

00:23:34.720 you know, on this very subject. Tell us more about that, please.

00:23:39.340 Well, yeah, thank you for asking. One of the things in my scientific career is, well, the main

00:23:45.420 goal in my scientific career has been to try to Darwinize the business school. The idea being that

00:23:52.160 you can't study organizational behavior and economic behavior and consumer behavior, which is,

00:23:57.200 you know, my main area of interest, without understanding the biological drivers of what

00:24:02.760 makes us consumers and employers and employees. We don't suddenly stop being biological beings

00:24:08.920 when we put on those hats. We are what we are because of our biology. Well, so one of the

00:24:15.360 things that long ago, perhaps prophetically, I had decided to do was to build what I call a

00:24:23.040 nomological network of cumulative evidence. And I discussed this in the whole chapter seven of

00:24:28.420 the parasitic mind is dedicated to this epistemological tool. A nomological network

00:24:33.040 of cumulative evidence is a means by which you build distinct lines of evidence that point to

00:24:40.960 a position that you're trying to defend. And one of the examples that I have used in my scientific

00:24:46.100 work and that I discuss in that chapter is the sex specificity of toy preferences. The idea that

00:24:54.080 Contrary to what social constructivists say, it's not true that little Johnny is simply taught to prefer the blue truck while little Linda is taught to prefer the pink doll because of the patriarchy.

00:25:07.880 But rather, there are indelible reasons why these sex-specific toy preferences exist.

00:25:14.100 Now, let me give you, I won't give you the full nomological network, but I'll give you a few lines of evidence that demonstrate how incontestable the evidence is, and then I'll link it to the law that brainless Gavin Newsom has come out with, okay?

00:25:29.840 So I can show you data from developmental psychology whereby you take children who are too young to be socialized. So by definition, you're ruling out the socialization argument. And I could show you that they already exhibit the sex-specific toy preferences.

00:25:49.420 little boys will tend to point to or try to reach or look at longer because you can't ask them

00:25:57.380 through words right they're they're not yet they don't have the capacity for language yet

00:26:00.980 so developmental psychology has already demonstrated the uh has ruled out the

00:26:07.460 socialization argument so if i had only shown you that data that already destroys the social

00:26:12.860 constructivist argument but when i'm building a nomological network of cumulative evidence

00:26:17.180 I won't stop there. I'm going to drown you in a tsunami of evidence. So let's look at a second

00:26:22.820 line of evidence. I'll do a few. I won't do the whole network, but hopefully it will become

00:26:27.880 evident how powerful the methodology is. I could show you data across animals. So I can bring you

00:26:34.920 data from vervet monkeys, from rhesus monkeys, from chimpanzees to show you that they exhibit

00:26:40.960 the same sex specificity of toy preferences. So now I've gotten you data from developmental

00:26:46.040 psychology. I've gotten you data from comparative psychology, comparative in the sense that you're

00:26:50.500 comparing across species. I can now get you data from pediatric endocrinology. So I can get you

00:26:55.920 data from, in medicine, you have a condition called congenital adrenal hyperplasia. This is

00:27:02.220 when little girls who suffer from this condition have masculinized behaviors. Well, little girls 1.00

00:27:08.180 who suffer from this disorder, what do you think happens to their toy preferences? They're

00:27:12.760 perfectly reversed. They become like those of boys. Okay, so now I've given you data from

00:27:17.800 developmental psychology, from comparative psychology, from pediatric endocrinology. I'll

00:27:21.880 do one more, although I could have spent another 30 minutes giving you more data. I can bring you

00:27:26.800 data from across cultures and cultures that are radically different than Western cultures and

00:27:33.140 show you that they exhibit the same patterns. I could get you data from 2,500 years ago in ancient

00:27:39.300 Greece showing you that in funerary monuments, little boys and little girls are depicted playing

00:27:46.480 with the same sex-specific toys as we have today. So I'm getting you cross-cultural data,

00:27:51.860 cross-temporal data, cross-discipline data, all of which point to the same ultimate fact.

00:27:57.520 Boys and girls have different toy preferences. So now that I've done all that, here comes

00:28:04.120 the woke crusader who says, screw human nature, screw science. Remember, the Democrats are the

00:28:13.240 science party. While I just gave you irrefutable 2,500 years worth of science across every

00:28:20.120 imaginable discipline that boys and girls have different toy preferences, Gavin Newsom says,

00:28:26.600 no, social constructivism is de rigueur. Therefore, there shouldn't be sex differences

00:28:33.620 when it comes to toy preferences. Therefore, I will mandate into law that which is inscribed

00:28:41.380 in human nature. Hey, retailers, you better not adhere to science and you better have gender 1.00

00:28:48.060 neutral toys. Let me give you another example of folks who denied human nature. They're called

00:28:54.400 communists. E.O. Wilson, the famous evolutionary biologist who is an entomologist who studies

00:29:01.980 social ants, here's what he said regarding communism. He said, wonderful idea, wrong species,

00:29:10.800 meaning communism is a wonderful idea for social ants because social ants, it is an indelible part

00:29:18.460 of their nature to be non-hierarchical. Every worker ant is the same except one reproductive

00:29:25.140 queen. Therefore, communism works wonders for social ants. It doesn't work for a species called 0.91

00:29:32.600 humans because we are not worker ants. Some of us work harder. Some of us are dumber. Some of us

00:29:38.260 are taller. Some of us are Lionel Messi. Therefore, when you impose a socio-political economic system

00:29:44.120 that is contrary to human nature,

00:29:46.340 you will have a hundred different instantiations

00:29:49.220 of trying the experiment of communism,

00:29:51.200 and it fails because it is contrary to human nature.

00:29:54.640 So woke laws like that of Gavin Newsom

00:29:58.360 is a perfect manifestation of what happens

00:30:01.160 when you deny human nature.

00:30:03.760 God, I'm on fire today.

00:30:06.440 And modest as well.

00:30:08.140 I'm falling in love with myself

00:30:10.340 as I hear myself speaking.

00:30:11.760 and those who don't get it this is called faux egotism i am joking anyways go ahead

00:30:19.920 it's fine guys they get that from me every day so they recognize it instantly don't worry

00:30:25.620 but it seems to me a lot of these people what they want is a utopia they want to be able to

00:30:34.180 achieve this promised land where if you have communism you're going to eradicate poverty

00:30:40.040 You're going to eradicate a whole multitude of sins that we have in the West.

00:30:45.840 If we follow BLM, we're going to eradicate racism.

00:30:51.700 That, to me, is the core of it, that they want this utopia.

00:30:55.020 But unfortunately, like all utopias, we're never going to get there.

00:30:58.480 Right. Well, that's exactly right.

00:31:00.300 Because, again, I remember I mentioned earlier, I said, you know,

00:31:04.060 each of these idea pathogens free us from the pesky shackles of reality, right? Utopian aspirations

00:31:13.060 are exactly that. I don't like the pesky, cruel world. Therefore, I will erect edifices of bullshit

00:31:22.480 that ultimately feel good. It's a form of ideological dopamine, right? It feels good to 0.99

00:31:31.320 think that there is a way that we can reorganize societies where we all walk with fig leaves around 0.72

00:31:38.040 our genitalia. There is no sexual violence. There is no racism. There is no poverty. There is no

00:31:43.100 inequality. And I think I've got the magic pill for that. It's called communism. It's called

00:31:48.840 socialism. It's called BLM. But of course, each of these ideological movements are not grounded

00:31:55.440 in reality, right? Lysenkoism, as I explained briefly in The Parasitic Mind, Lysenko was a 0.85

00:32:04.100 geneticist who disagreed with this pesky thing called Mendelian inheritance, one of the fundamental

00:32:11.460 laws of genetics, right? Because those laws were somehow, in his twisted mind, not consistent with

00:32:18.620 Marxism. Therefore, he argued that true genetics should be more in line, you know, with whatever,

00:32:25.080 Lamarckian inheritance, which is a discredited form of, you know, genetic hereditary mechanisms.

00:32:32.400 Therefore, science be damned, it has to be consistent with my ideological foundational

00:32:40.140 building blocks. So if Marxism is it, and if 20, 30 million peoples have to subsequently succumb

00:32:46.260 into Soviet unions because of my quack theories of genetics, so be it. But at least I have 0.97

00:32:51.920 maintain the integrity of my Marxist doctrines. So, you know, you would think that scientists

00:32:58.160 are somehow inoculated from these idea pathogens and these parasitic ideas. But the reality is

00:33:05.340 they're the ones who spawn those idea pathogens, right? And that's why I am, you know, while I am

00:33:12.220 a very affable guy in my day-to-day life, you also see me when I intervene publicly. Oftentimes,

00:33:17.760 I'm indignant because I genuinely feel epistemologically aggrieved when I see

00:33:25.540 colleagues of mine who should be the Navy SEALs of reason being the ones who promulgate all this 0.85

00:33:32.520 bullshit, which basically shows you you can have all the fancy degrees on your walls. 0.99

00:33:37.340 That doesn't mean that you'll be inoculated against all the bullshit. 1.00

00:33:41.380 And how much of this is people responding to an incentive structure, Gad, whereby, you know, 0.97

00:33:47.360 if you say the right things you'll be you'll be seen to be moral you'll have more opportunities

00:33:52.380 to progress you'll have more opportunities to write books how much of that is just an incentive

00:33:59.080 structure that people are given and really can you blame people for responding to an incentive

00:34:03.780 structure yes uh i can blame them uh although i understand that not all people will be driven by

00:34:11.540 the same pure life ideals that I have in chapter one of the parasitic mind I basically argue that

00:34:17.520 my two driving ideals that shape my life are freedom and truth and and I and I use these

00:34:24.980 concepts not just for the standard or scientific truths although of course I do mean it in that

00:34:30.420 sense and I don't just mean freedom in the sense of freedom of speech and academic freedom I give

00:34:35.540 the example that when I was a soccer player a competitive soccer player I played the number 10

00:34:40.460 position where I float around as a playmaker that freedom to create was very important to me

00:34:46.340 when a coach would tell me today you're playing more on the left side of midfield and you got a

00:34:51.440 track back to cover this guy it's not because I'm a diva who doesn't want to take instructions

00:34:55.700 but the fact that you are now restricting my movements on the field it was like decapitating

00:35:03.440 me because I needed the freedom to create right so my ideals are freedom and truth those are the

00:35:10.440 fundamental drivers of my life. Therefore, I will never see, I mean, to a fault. I even talk in the

00:35:16.580 book about the fact how my exacting personal conduct to always adhere to this punishing code

00:35:23.140 of purity sometimes has gotten me into trouble. Had I been more of a careerist, had I been more

00:35:29.640 of a, you know, play along to get along kind of guy, I would have been invited more to the cool

00:35:34.920 kids party, but then I wouldn't have been true to myself. Meaning the harshest judge of Gad Saad

00:35:44.300 is not the blue haired person on Twitter. The harshest critic of Gad Saad is Gad Saad. So when

00:35:51.780 I put my head on the pillow at night to sleep, the only way I can fight insomnia is to know that

00:35:59.100 I have done everything that I can to be an authentic person, to be a real person.

00:36:05.460 And therefore, I never modulate an ounce of my dignity, of my integrity for consequentialist

00:36:13.160 reasons.

00:36:13.620 Now, I understand that that may be a rare quality, but I'm probably not the first to

00:36:18.840 say that the one who leads an honest life is the one who truly leads a happy life, which

00:36:25.340 by the way, is what I'm talking about in my next book.

00:36:27.260 So, no, I do blame them. I do look at those people with disdain. I understand that there are careerist, pragmatic realities, but then you're an asshole. You're a false person. You're a fake, right? There is nothing more beautiful than to be authentic because you are authentic to yourself and to others.

00:36:47.100 I don't have to modulate any lies because everything that I say comes from a place of

00:36:52.520 authenticity.

00:36:53.220 Now, that doesn't mean that I'm always right.

00:36:55.180 Sometimes you might prove me wrong, but because I'm authentic, I will say, hey, you know

00:36:59.260 what, Francis, you know what, Constantine, you were right. 1.00

00:37:02.500 I was an asshole. 0.99

00:37:03.320 I was wrong. 0.98

00:37:04.060 And thank you for correcting me.

00:37:05.620 So I always present an authentic self.

00:37:08.360 And all those people who are modulating themselves are fraudsters.

00:37:12.260 with a small f sometimes with a big f be authentic be truthful that's the way to live life well it's

00:37:19.200 a great message gad and we were chatting before we started the show about our journey from

00:37:23.760 comedians to doing this and we've certainly found the same thing when when you do things that you

00:37:28.440 genuinely believe in and when you don't self-censor and when you say what you feel uh you may be wrong

00:37:33.240 but you you will be rewarded first of all and also you will be rewarded with joy and fulfillment

00:37:38.360 internally as well. And it's a great message. But I want to take you back to what you were

00:37:43.380 talking about with communism and Neil Wilson, one of my favorite quotes as well. So given that

00:37:48.760 all of that is true, then, what is a structure of society that is most optimized for human

00:37:58.060 beings, in your opinion? Well, it is one that allows for the flourishing of personal autonomy

00:38:04.760 and individual rights and individual dignity, right?

00:38:10.400 Anything that denies fundamental precepts

00:38:13.900 of human nature will fail.

00:38:15.940 So let me again, take one of my tangents

00:38:18.460 to then bring it back home.

00:38:20.480 So oftentimes in my courses,

00:38:22.540 let's say I'm teaching an MBA course in consumer behavior.

00:38:25.600 You know, at first students are like,

00:38:27.280 this guy's talking evolutionary psychology

00:38:29.080 and evolutionary biology.

00:38:30.200 What does this have to do

00:38:31.080 with the consumer behavior course?

00:38:32.560 And then I always bring it back home

00:38:34.520 and say, well, look, a good marketer is one who understands human nature. If you create products

00:38:42.480 that are antithetical to some fundamental precept of human nature, that product will eventually fail

00:38:48.300 on the market. So for example, if I am a creator of romance novels, well, we know that romance

00:38:56.680 novels are almost exclusively read by women all around the world. There is no culture where that 0.73

00:39:01.780 pattern is reversed almost exclusively read by women and they you they read those books because 0.99

00:39:08.440 it is a form of fantasy escapism right and so typically if you want to study the content of

00:39:13.120 romance novels one of the things that you could do is study what is the typical archetype of the

00:39:19.600 male hero in a romance novel and he's always the same guy he is tall he is a prince he's a

00:39:25.600 neurosurgeon. He tackled alligators on his six pack and causes the alligator to submit. And he

00:39:33.200 could only be tamed by the love of this one woman. This lion of a man can ultimately be reined in by

00:39:38.520 this woman. I just explained every single romance novel that has ever been written since the

00:39:44.320 Pleistocene era. That exists because romance novel writers are targeting women. Marketing is 1.00

00:39:54.220 segmentation and targeting. They're targeting women. They understand the needs of women when

00:39:59.520 it comes to purchasing that product, and they adhere to it. Now, a company that's progressive

00:40:04.100 comes along and says, we want to free ourselves from the shackles of the archetype of the male

00:40:10.540 hero. We want to create a new genre of romance novels where the male protagonist is pear-shaped.

00:40:18.260 He's got a nasal voice. He plays video games all day in mom's basement. He sucks his thumb in a

00:40:23.900 fetal position. He watches Bridget Jones' diaries while crying because he put on three pounds. Yeah, 0.99

00:40:29.960 that's right. I'm the king of comedy. Okay. So therefore, we're going to create a new genre

00:40:36.220 of romance novel that adheres to this more gentle, non-toxic masculine male. Well, what happens to

00:40:43.040 that genre? It fails in the marketplace because women say, sorry, progressive company, we're not 1.00

00:40:49.580 interested in fantasizing over this guy. We're not buying your product. So then I tell my MBA

00:40:54.720 students, so do you understand why we have to be grounded in human nature? So now you can see how

00:41:01.020 I'm coming back to your question. A good society is one that has certain features. You need to

00:41:09.640 make sure that there is a police force, a military. There needs to be a mechanism to ensure that

00:41:16.240 people can't come into my home and take what they covet from my home. But a good society is

00:41:22.440 not one where Gavin Newsom tells free retailers how to organize the merchandise layout in their

00:41:32.420 stores. That's not how you should organize society. A good society is not one where you put

00:41:39.840 the collective as being more important than the individual. That's communism. I am first

00:41:48.240 Gatsad before I'm a member of a tribe. So judge me for all my qualities and faults as an individual.

00:41:55.460 So the reason why the West was such a miraculous anomaly is because classical liberalism

00:42:02.260 recognized that. It said everything should be rooted in the ethos of individual dignity.

00:42:09.280 And now progressives are saying, no, no, no. The great experiment of the Western tradition has proven to be faulty. Let's return to a collectivist ethos that will ensure that we will have a society, a flourishing, blossoming society like Lebanon, where everything is defined according to identity politics. So I hope that I've answered your question.

00:42:32.960 You have, Gad, but I have a challenge for you because we just interviewed, well, we've interviewed a number of people who've made this point, but among them is Tim Stanley, a historian here in the UK, who's written a book about tradition.

00:42:45.080 And one of the things we were sort of teasing out of him is a conversation about whether the pursuit of freedom can become self-destructive when it's taken to the extreme to the point where we are now, where I think particularly among people of our generation, Francis and I, and younger,

00:43:01.940 there's a feeling and you know your your fellow canadian jordan peterson i think has become the

00:43:06.480 superstar that he has because that feeling is widely shared that there's a crisis of meaning

00:43:10.880 and that freedom in and of itself and personal autonomy in and of itself and classical liberalism

00:43:16.240 dare i say in and of itself does not provide for some of the other things that give people meaning

00:43:21.620 now i know what you're going to say you're going to say well i pursue truth and and all of that and

00:43:26.360 you do and i really respect you for that and i try to do the same but the other things that give

00:43:31.160 your life, meaning are your children, your family, your social relations, your community, etc. And

00:43:36.400 those are not necessarily benefiting from the exclusive pursuit of freedom. Would you not agree

00:43:43.040 with that? Actually, it might surprise you. I fully agree with you, right? It's not that the

00:43:50.060 ethos of individual dignity as promised by the state is inconsistent with the recognition that

00:43:58.480 humans are a social species, that humans exhibit traits that are communal in nature, right? So

00:44:06.640 the fact that I have an innate mechanism to love my children, to love my spouse, to love

00:44:15.020 my non-kin, you know, I'm sitting with you guys and I appreciate greatly what you guys are doing

00:44:21.380 and I might feel a great kinship towards you, right? The term kinship implies as though we

00:44:26.880 We're biologically linked, even though we're not.

00:44:29.100 So it's not as though evolutionists say, oh, it's a, you know, a brutish world.

00:44:35.680 Each man for himself pursues selfish interests.

00:44:38.820 No.

00:44:39.400 As a matter of fact, reciprocal altruism, the mechanism of reciprocal altruism is at the

00:44:44.540 root of understanding the evolutionary mechanisms that create cooperation.

00:44:48.920 So it's not as though an evolutionist is unaware that even though we pursue individual

00:44:55.320 interests, these are ultimately also rooted in the recognition that we are a social species,

00:45:00.040 but these are not contradictory. So I see what you're saying, Gad, sorry to interrupt. So what

00:45:03.900 you're actually against, you're not against sort of encouraging altruism, you're against compelled

00:45:09.560 altruism, essentially, right? Compelled altruism? I mean, look, what you mentioned earlier,

00:45:15.540 my buddy Jordan, right? He's not saying don't be nice to transgender people. He's saying don't

00:45:21.900 force me to say what gender pronoun to use. So to use your word compelled, don't compel me to say

00:45:28.300 something. I'm going to be kind and sensitive simply because I'm kind and sensitive. So that

00:45:33.980 if a student were to come to me and say, you know, here's my situation, here's how I say,

00:45:38.300 of course, thank you for telling me. And I'd be happy to address you in any way that makes you

00:45:42.860 feel good. But I don't want the government telling me, right? Why God? Why? Why don't you

00:45:49.580 want the government because there'll be people not many admittedly with our audience but there

00:45:53.440 will be some people watching this who are going look gad what you know the government tells you

00:45:57.800 for your own sake and for the benefit of society to to wear a mask or to take a vaccine or to do

00:46:03.760 this or to do that isn't that you know isn't that about safety and and that is putting the interest

00:46:09.000 of society yes it's putting it ahead of yours but that's how we advance the society what's wrong

00:46:13.980 with the government telling you what well you know i hate to use a apparently tired cliche but

00:46:19.660 it exists because it has meaning it's the classic slippery soap argument where does that end so let

00:46:25.860 me give you an example when i am so i have a nine-year-old son uh you know who uh you know

00:46:33.340 i'm sometimes amazed at the types of conversations that we have with one another which by the way

00:46:37.000 here's a life lesson don't don't infantilize your children speak to them as though they have brains

00:46:41.740 I hate people who say, ooh, they speak to you as if you're a little puppy.

00:46:45.560 I speak to my son as if he's a functioning, that doesn't mean I don't love him as a young

00:46:49.880 child, but I engage his brain. 0.99

00:46:52.980 He's not some little schmuck who doesn't have the capacity to think. 0.99

00:46:56.400 Why am I saying all this? 0.98

00:46:57.560 We were walking back from a cafe that we had gone together, and I was telling him about

00:47:03.660 libertarianism, nine-year-old.

00:47:06.120 And so I said, look, now we're about to cross the street.

00:47:09.220 And again, I'm going to come to your question.

00:47:10.800 I haven't forgotten what you asked.

00:47:12.180 Gad, we have faith in you.

00:47:13.800 You don't need all the apologies in advance.

00:47:16.960 Just go for it.

00:47:17.640 We believe in you and so does our audience.

00:47:19.420 Go for it.

00:47:20.240 So when I'm crossing the street, it's a one-way street.

00:47:25.620 There is nobody there.

00:47:27.000 There is a sign that says, don't cross.

00:47:29.220 There is a sign that says, you've got 10 seconds to cross.

00:47:32.560 We were stopped at one point, not during that time, another time with my wife, where there

00:47:37.640 was a cop standing at the corner saying that i'm not going to give you a ticket this time but next

00:47:43.220 time i will because you crossed when the sign wasn't yet at zero right so what is that cop

00:47:50.460 saying and to sort of speak to your point of but what's wrong it's safety it's the government

00:47:54.580 telling you when the government decides that the 56 year old ghat saad is incapable of engaging 0.99

00:48:05.820 his faculties and deciding in looking the one-way street that there is clearly no car coming and

00:48:12.500 therefore he can cross, but a 22-year-old policewoman will issue him a ticket for not

00:48:20.340 having waited, even though there are no cars coming, that's not libertarianism. That's

00:48:25.960 overstepping the government boundaries. So no one is questioning the fact that we grant the

00:48:32.460 government certain rights to compel us to do certain things that are good for the collective.

00:48:38.200 The question is, where do you draw the line, right? That's where the debate happens. I argue

00:48:43.960 that it's not for the government, what Bloomberg did say when he was mayor of New York, it's not

00:48:51.260 for the government to mandate whether you should have sugary drinks or not. Yes, it's a stupid 1.00

00:48:57.840 health choice to drink yourself to diabetes by drinking 75 cans of coca-cola a day but it's not 1.00

00:49:06.300 for the government to say if you do it i will punish you because then you don't live in a free

00:49:10.960 society then i am not an autonomous agent who is in control of my personal trajectory there is a

00:49:17.880 better entity out there that knows better for me does that make sense sure god it seems to me when

00:49:24.840 we're talking, we have a form of privilege. And I'll see if you're going to push back on this.

00:49:31.420 We don't have Western privilege because we've seen the other side. I saw it in Venezuela.

00:49:37.760 Actually, I have family from Lebanon, so I've seen it over there as well. You've seen it in

00:49:43.840 Lebanon. Constantine has seen it in Russia. We've seen the other side. What happens when society

00:49:49.420 breaks down, when socialism gets introduced into a society? Do you not have a certain sympathy

00:49:57.900 and an understanding for people who haven't seen the other side of it? Because if you haven't

00:50:03.220 experienced this, then are you ever truly really going to understand it? Yeah, well, to those

00:50:08.680 people, I would say crack a book open, right? But you're exactly right, because I've often argued

00:50:17.240 that some of the staunchest defenders

00:50:19.740 of the Western tradition are immigrants

00:50:22.940 precisely because they have sampled

00:50:26.420 from the wide buffet of possible societies.

00:50:30.000 And they know that the miracle

00:50:32.740 of the Western tradition is exactly that.

00:50:35.900 It's a miracle.

00:50:36.960 It's an anomaly.

00:50:38.460 The history of humanity is not littered

00:50:42.000 with free societies, individual dignity.

00:50:46.060 That that's not the default structure of the human condition. So it takes people who have existed in the default societies that are not congruent with the Western tradition, who then come to the West, see the traditions that we have and say, what the hell are you morons doing? 0.99

00:51:06.520 How are you giving all this up away without anybody having even conquered you at the gates? 0.97

00:51:12.620 You're saying that you will self-sabotage, right?

00:51:15.780 That's why I am existentially angered all the time, because I simply can't believe what's

00:51:22.340 happening, right?

00:51:23.880 So I think your instinct, Francis, is exactly right.

00:51:27.140 If you've seen Venezuela, if you've seen the former Soviet Union, if you've seen Lebanon,

00:51:33.120 then you know how beautiful uh canada or britain or the u.s historically have been and therefore

00:51:40.160 you want to fight for those values if you were born into them and never knew anything else you

00:51:46.360 think that it is as natural as the sun rising tomorrow it isn't you truly have to fight for

00:51:52.520 those uh freedoms as ronald reagan famously said that every generation you have to re-fight against

00:51:59.580 those who are trying to, you know, eradicate freedoms.

00:52:04.760 Gad, it's been an absolute pleasure as always.

00:52:08.780 It's such a joy to speak with you.

00:52:11.020 We always end our interviews with the final question,

00:52:14.740 which is what's the one thing we're not talking about,

00:52:17.100 but we really should be?

00:52:19.260 We should be talking more about why had I not had

00:52:23.740 the career-ending injury that I had when I was a soccer player,

00:52:27.680 how I would have been up there with Messi.

00:52:31.300 That's the thing that I think

00:52:32.500 we should be spending a lot more time on.

00:52:34.220 No, seriously, I think it's not so much

00:52:36.660 that we're not talking about

00:52:38.660 all these woke idea pathogens.

00:52:40.960 I think what we're not doing is

00:52:42.620 more of us are not getting engaged

00:52:45.960 in the battle of ideas.

00:52:47.100 I think what upsets me the most

00:52:48.480 on a day-to-day basis

00:52:49.540 is to see the apathy of people, right?

00:52:53.480 You know, yeah, I mean,

00:52:54.520 Jordan Peterson is talking about this.

00:52:56.120 Gad Saad is talking about this. I'm busy with my daily life. I'm busy purchasing my groceries

00:53:01.620 tonight. I'm busy preparing for my upcoming wedding. I don't have time to get into this

00:53:06.880 battle of ideas. Let some other folks with bigger platforms and more of a spine handle it for me. 1.00

00:53:14.500 And that reflex is one that we have to be talking more about so that we can compel people to

00:53:20.920 activate their inner honey badger, so that we can compel people to say, yes, you may not have

00:53:25.320 the platform of Joe Rogan, but your voice truly does matter. Even within your small sphere of

00:53:32.240 influence, you can affect change. If your professor says something that is insanely contrary to

00:53:38.020 reality, challenge them politely. If your Facebook friend says something that's offensive,

00:53:44.400 don't feel threatened that they might unfriend you if you challenge them. Challenge them. So I think

00:53:49.640 that's what we need to be talking more about. How can we get people to feel empowered to speak out

00:53:56.540 against this nonsense? Believe me, we will wake up in 50 or 100 years and say, how did this happen?

00:54:02.940 And if people have a copy of this conversation, they will know how it happened. It's because of

00:54:07.640 cowardice. It's because of apathy. It's because of diffusion of responsibility onto others that

00:54:13.300 these idea pathogens proliferate. If we all talk against them, we will solve the problem by next

00:54:18.500 weekend. Gad, thanks so much for coming back. We are going to do a couple of questions for our

00:54:23.780 local supporters. But in the meantime, thank you for your time. And thank you all for watching

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TRIGGERnometry - October 25, 2021

How Do We Stop Bad Ideas Destroying the West？ Gad Saad

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