Yossi Kagan, former Director of Mossad and author of the book Sword of Freedom, joins us to talk about his time in charge of one of the world s most elite intelligence services, the Mossad.
00:02:56.360They do whatever is connected to our local security from within.
00:03:02.060It is, like, terrorism, local terrorism, counter-espionage against others that are trying to spy inside the country, inside the state of Israel, security, physical security of, like, MPs, prime minister, and our embassies abroad.
00:03:19.740I mean, all, like, official entities of the Israeli, of Israel as a state outside of the country.
00:03:26.380Beside all that, I mean, there are a few military bodies, intelligence military bodies that are working together, simultaneously with us, together with us.
00:03:37.180The one which is very famous now, 8200, Shmoni Matai, we call it in Hebrew, very well-known one, working on signal intelligence.
00:03:46.840This is a monster of signal intelligence.
00:03:50.840I mean, they do what we have to do to intercept, to listen, to hack, sorry to say.
00:04:00.760And this is part of the military intelligence.
00:04:03.480Of course, I mean, we all work together.
00:04:05.620And the third one would be the military intelligence as a part of it, okay?
00:04:09.860I mean, it's, like, above Shmoni Matai, I mean, the 8200, of course, the signal intelligence, but there is a kind of a military intelligence that is, like, seeing everything, reading everything, being involved in collecting materials from all of us, and somehow direct our missions, even Mossad's mission, abroad to their national needs.
00:04:33.120So, it's, I mean, these are the main, I would say, three bodies.
00:04:38.2208200, I've mentioned that separately because they're goods, and they're, I mean, they're very important, I mean, to our resilience, I believe, in the country.
00:04:48.180And you mentioned military intelligence.
00:04:49.760One of the things that really stands out in your book is you're very, very critical of the Israeli military when it comes to October 7th.
00:04:58.360What do you think were the key failings that caused that to happen?
00:05:02.440Well, I think on the national level, I mean, when I was national security advisor, I mean, you have to realize that there is a country to guard, that there is a country to preserve, that there is a country to make sure that it will exist the next day, right?
00:05:16.020I mean, and you do have, on a national level, you do have two lines of defense that has to be emphasized by us, Israelis.
00:05:24.620The one, I mean, by the way, it applies to every other country, too.
00:05:28.200Like, it's good to do that, the same thing, the same structure in all countries, UK and others.
00:05:35.060The first line of defense is the intelligence line, which is the one that you don't see, which is the one that you don't see.
00:05:42.600I mean, this intelligence line is all of us, as described before, are working to know what the enemy is playing for us.
00:05:54.200I mean, what does the Iranians, what do they want to do?
00:05:57.560I mean, what are the plans of terror attacks?
00:06:00.780I mean, that either Iranians or other terror activity or terror organization, I'm sorry, is our planning for us.
00:06:07.260And this is something that has to be conducting by intelligence forces to make sure that we know every day, every morning, every time, every minute,
00:06:19.620what are the enemy plans, i.e., enemy each one of them that I've mentioned before.
00:06:25.740It could be Hezbollah, Iran, Syrians at the time, or Hamas.
00:18:03.480If you don't know what the enemy is planning for you, all right, you're not doing your job.
00:18:07.320My job is to tell you, I mean, not you only, but you know what, you too.
00:18:13.540I mean, my best, one of my best partners here in the UK, and we refer to that because I'm sure that you're going to ask about the amazing and important declaration of Prime Minister Starmer about the Palestinian future, whatever Palestinian state.
00:18:29.740But at that time that I was conducting this intelligence bureau of mine, or the Mossad, one of my best partners was the MA5, your local security here.
00:18:41.900And local security has to be informed by all others who is going to do something against your own kingdom, all right?
00:18:49.420So if you knew that, you have passed your job with distinction.
00:19:13.480So you have to invest a lot in order to know, all right?
00:19:16.960So if you haven't penetrated them correctly, okay, by all means, I'm not saying only human, like human intelligence is my profession, all right?
00:19:24.700How to recruit people from within the enemy, whatever bodies and entities.
00:19:29.400If you don't do that, it means you know nothing.
00:19:32.260I mean, I think that knowing significantly is the version, is the right version.
00:19:36.340You may know, but you don't know enough.
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00:20:55.720One of the things that I really enjoyed, Yossi, about your book is you talked about the mindset of an operative who goes behind enemy lines,
00:21:04.960who gets to know the enemy and the way that you frame it.
00:21:11.100Because the psychology of that is fascinating.
00:21:15.600Yeah, it's all about mindset, I think.
00:21:19.240Well, to be an operative, I mean, you have to fit the job, right?
00:21:24.080I'm not sure that I can be a great commentary or whatever interview guy.
00:21:29.260I mean, you have to have a, like, different mindset, I mean, for every single job that there is, I believe, around the globe, right?
00:21:36.980I mean, everybody has his own profession, and that's a profession.
00:21:41.080That's a very, very important profession, I think, I mean, for the sake of all countries.
00:21:45.600But in order to be an operative, I mean, inside this huge profession that we call spionage, I mean, you have to have a special, I would have qualities, let's put it that way, that fits or that would fit in the job.
00:22:00.700And what is it that we need, all right?
00:22:07.100I mean, we need, first, I mean, I think, humbly saying, I think that you have to be a brave guy.
00:22:12.520I mean, in a way, you have to know how to go and to penetrate, I mean, behind enemy lines.
00:22:16.600I mean, you have to go and travel and to know who you are undercover.
00:22:20.700Undercover, I mean, you have to work a lot undercover, you have to present something else which is not your truth, a true identity, and this is something that has to be worked upon.
00:22:34.420The mindset that you have referred to is something that you wear every time that you leave the country, every time that you're out of Israel, there is a kind of a mindset that says,
00:22:46.620I'm not who I am anymore, I'm not Yossi anymore, now I am whatever, Michael, Richard, or David, not David, David's not good, but other names.
00:22:57.520I refer to Gabriel, but it's not a good one too, but never mind, I mean, it used to be Muhammad or Masoud or whatever.
00:23:04.360And this kind of shield is the only one that protects you, okay, in front of the enemy.
00:23:10.820This is what he sees, you want him to see that and that only.
00:23:14.360So you have to be a kind of a actor on a stage.
00:23:19.540So the spionage arena is a kind of a huge stage, okay, the world stage, okay, that you go in wearing this kind of, not physical, but cover stories mask, okay, and you have to play it, and you have to play it right.
00:23:33.620You have to be whatever you want to do in front of your given audience.
00:23:38.380They may be Iranians, or Europeans, or South Africans, or South Americans, or whatever.
00:23:45.580I mean, you have to go places that will have to, and you have to play your own character by yourself.
00:23:52.880And each one of us has to play his own character by himself, and they're changing characters.
00:23:56.940I mean, they're not all the time the same.
00:23:59.140Okay, I mean, you have different characters, like an actor on stage again.
00:24:04.340I mean, you can play, what is it, Phantom of the Opera, and the next day you can play Book of Mormons.
00:24:09.000I mean, you, I mean, these are the shows that I've seen here.
00:25:08.740I mean, we know what we have to achieve as the State of Israel, of course, at the Mossad.
00:25:13.380We do know what are the targets that we have to know.
00:25:15.720Assume that we need to know something about the Iranian nuclear stuff.
00:25:22.120How do we map, okay, our targets in order to make sure that we will get engaged, okay, we will engage, I'm sorry, to the targets that we need, that are there.
00:25:31.960And you have to build a kind of an arm of intelligence that will study who are the targets inside.
00:25:41.340These are the intelligence officers at the back office, right?
00:25:45.880They gather what we have as for now, and we say, okay, now we know, let's say, 20% of the picture.
00:25:51.340We have to know 80%, 100% of what they do.
00:25:54.140These are the targets that have to know, these are the targets that have to be achieved.
00:25:59.360Part of them are by recruiting people from within the entities or from within the, I mean, in that case, within the Iranian or the Hezbollah group.
00:26:12.340And you have to, and each one of us or each group of us, I mean, gets its proper targets.
00:26:20.100It's not that everyone is doing everything.
00:26:24.140And we do have a line of targets that has to be engaged by us.
00:26:29.080And when Abdullah's case, like many others, I believe, I mean, I refer to that probably because this is the one I, whatever, I remembered.
00:26:39.800I mean, we're writing the book, but there are so many other, or there were thousands of stories that I can reveal or thousands of cover stories that I can reveal to.
00:26:47.380I mean, referring to this twin thing that has to up in between the target and me or the target and us.
00:26:57.660This is something that has to be conducted beautifully, smoothly, without anyone knowing that you are there, without anyone knowing that you have arrived, without anyone knowing what is your proper reason for being there.
00:27:10.060And without him or her suspecting that he is a target, while we know everything about him already.
00:27:19.520So there is a huge advantage on our side that we know what the enemy or what the enemy is and what he does.
00:27:25.500Because on their side, of course, there are some cases that they have suspected, or there are some cases that they believe that we're not who we are and who we present we are.
00:27:38.520And we had some problems to explain that.
00:27:40.740Sometimes they have to run away or to escape, I mean, from the espionage arena, as we probably call it.
00:27:46.740But this is something that refers to a given operation or to any operation.
00:27:53.780It will, I believe, be conducted in a very different manner.
00:28:02.100So each one of them has probably the same fundamental capabilities and abilities.
00:28:08.560I mean, either organizational ones or private ones or personal ones.
00:28:14.020And then it has to be conducted towards the target.
00:28:54.360If anyone is the target and I know him, but I know him by whatever, either listening to him or following him or know,
00:29:02.100including his friends or recruiting him or his entourage, I mean, people that are around him are already speaking about him, doesn't really give me the real character, who he really is.
00:29:15.800I mean, in any, I would say, human contact in between any one of us, I mean, there are layers that have been seen and layers that you don't see.
00:29:28.300In order to know who he really is, I mean, you have to really be his best friend.
00:29:33.540I mean, you really have to believe, has to believe that you are his best friend or an ally or a colleague or someone that can serve his interests.
00:29:43.600And each one of us has different interests, but most of them are common.
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00:39:03.240It is true that if you go, I mean, we're not going to do a nuclear seminar, but the one thing that bothered us above it all, that they've kept capabilities in the bunkers alive.
00:39:15.460That means that they can not only enrich uranium in the bunkers, they can even improve the enrichment.
00:39:24.060Eventually, this is exactly what worried us.
00:39:25.880And more than that, there is a sunset clause, as we call it, the sunset clause, as we call it, which is something that says that in a given time, the agreement eventually will be dismissed or will be canceled or will be eventually banished or abandoned.
00:40:14.560I mean, at the time I was the prime negotiator for the Stellar Israel for the nuclear deal.
00:40:18.540I had conducted this kind of relationship with the UK, French, all the others.
00:40:23.560And we said, I mean, because every country received a kind of a vertical to deal with inside their agreement, headed by the USA, of course.
00:40:32.900OK, the foreign ministry, I mean, the secretary of state and his team at the time, John Kerry, Wendy Sherman and the others.
00:40:50.620I mean, they're trying to pave their way to the bomb.
00:40:55.020And this is something that they have declared again and again and again from within the system that they're doing.
00:41:00.420They said, yeah, of course, because of that, we need an agreement.
00:41:03.040And we said we have to attack the sides.
00:41:05.820If they don't stop, we have to attack the gap that was not fulfilled till June 13th this year.
00:41:12.840But in 2016, after the agreement was signed, we saw something very weird happening in Iran, which is under Ministry of Defense and Dr. Moksen Fakhrizadeh, rest in peace.
00:41:25.760They have started to collect this kind of materials from all over the country under a very discreet manner.
00:41:33.600Super secret thing that's happening in Iran itself says you will bring us everything that you have, hardware, software, disks, papers, documents, everything that we have done under this nuclear secret activity into one side.
00:44:27.700And now we have absolute evidence, okay?
00:44:31.460A lot of evidence that show that this is what they did.
00:44:35.580Can you give us some specifics on what they're doing?
00:44:38.080I mean, in a nuclear activity, I mean, if you want to hide it, I mean, according to the Iranians, you don't have...
00:44:44.540And you can't work under any inspection of the IEA.
00:44:47.560And we found out that they have done a lot of work, many sites that we had found out were not known to anyone, never declared, but a lot of activity was happening there, right?
00:44:59.760And we did find many, many, many, many, many sites that were conducting actual and physical nuclear work without declaring it to the IAEA.
00:45:11.960So, in one hand, Iran is conducting kind of negotiations with the West, or with the West East and Russia, and signing an agreement saying, well, our intention is not, of course, for a nuclear bomb.
00:45:36.600That was the reason for us to go on with it.
00:45:41.760Because the, I mean, in the intelligence philosophy, I mean, there is, the use of intelligence will always be more valuable than the intelligence itself.
00:45:52.360Meaning, if you know something, it's okay.
00:46:08.320We have, I mean, the Prime Minister did.
00:46:10.100Prime Minister Netanyahu had a very important press release, whatever, I mean, press conference, and he revealed that we have that.
00:46:19.280I mean, it didn't show everything, but that was a kind of a shocking thing to all negotiators.
00:46:23.800What we did, I did personally, is that I have ordered to copy it bit by bit, all of it, all the archive, and give it to one by one.
00:46:33.540To the head of the CIA at the time, to the head of the MI6 at the time, to the head of the DGSE at the time, the French Mossad at the time, every one of them, and to the Russians, Chinese, and partially to the Germans, and to the IEA.
00:46:47.760And telling them, okay, this is the archive, we tell you nothing about that.
00:46:52.800First, do you endorse it, or do you think we faked it, as the Iranian would claim?
00:46:58.200Everyone endorsed it, including the IEA, and this is the most important part.
00:47:02.880By the way, a few weeks later, President Trump exits the agreement, saying, Israel has just provided us with new materials that shows that Iran lied all the way to the agreement.
00:47:12.380And now we understand their truth, or what they're really doing, the reality that they were trying to create for us.
00:47:20.040And number two, everyone, all services, including the IEA, endorsed completely what was in it, and said, this is a problematic issue that has to be declared, or not declared, cleaned, or cleared in between us and Iran.
00:47:37.300Which brings us very rapidly to June of this year.
00:48:18.220And if not, let us visit it, because the sequence was, before 13th of June, is that the IAEA had this board of governors, I mean, describing why Iran is violating all the inspectors, right?
00:48:34.380Or the inspection activity inside Iran.
00:48:38.420And that was a very important decision that gave the light green light, okay, to that attack.
00:48:45.940Because President Trump said openly, at the White House, with the prime minister sitting next to him, he said, there are three things that I do.
00:48:56.380And I give it 60 days for the Iranians to engage with us.
00:48:59.840If an agreement will be achieved my way, we have an agreement.
00:49:03.200If not, we will attack, Israel would lead the attack.
00:49:08.480And these three things have actually happened.
00:49:10.760Iran did not come clean to the IAEA demands.
00:49:14.520They never did, by the way, till today.
00:49:17.000Sites that were destroyed, the attack.
00:49:20.860That we knew that they were conducting military, kind of military activity, or military to the bomb activity, that we had to take over, I mean, this kind of strike.
00:49:32.700And more than that, they said, since you don't come clean, with all evidence that we'd found at the archive, we're coming to get you.
00:49:40.880Now, if it was fully destroyed, to my knowledge, enrichment is not happening anymore in Iran, right now.
00:50:01.640We know the people that we took away, unfortunately.
00:50:03.640We know what we have stopped, but we don't know what we don't know.
00:50:07.500So what we know is that we have to conduct more penetrative operations inside Iran to make sure that we know more about their current activity.
00:50:17.560And if we find any new activity, or these activities that were never seized because of the attack, Iran do understand something very well now.
00:50:30.020That we can, it's an important sentence, that we can come again.
00:50:41.460A question I was going to ask you is, based on your time as director, Mossad, based on your intelligence, based on what you know, why does Iran want a nuclear bomb?
00:50:54.260I think that they want to be immune from the region, maybe from the state of Israel or others.
00:51:01.620I mean, they are in a consistent conflict with their neighbors all the time.
00:52:10.160And I think that Iran is trying to create this kind of Sheet Crescent, if declared or not.
00:52:16.360And, by the way, they've done that beautifully in Iraq by Qasem Soleimani at the time.
00:52:21.840Hashdashabi, there was like a kind of a local Shiite force working for him, for them, under an absolutely supervision of the Iranian.
00:52:31.220They kept the Assad regime alive while conquering part of the country or the regime itself.
00:52:38.760And, of course, they've, like, dominated Lebanon through the Hezbollah and other Shiite organizations.
00:52:46.060So I believe that all that map that you see creates a kind of a need to be immune or telling the world, you can't touch me anymore.
00:52:55.100Now I have nuclear and you don't mess up with me.
00:52:58.340And I believe that for these two reasons, I mean, Iran has eventually conducted this kind of activity.
00:53:03.160And it's really interesting in the book where you talk about how you actually, how Mossad, because people have got this image of Mossad, which is obviously incorrect, but you help.
00:54:42.040They were trying to conduct operations outside of the Levant, meaning cutting out of Syria into Turkey.
00:54:50.360And now they are in like in a kind of a very, very pleasant or much more comfortable arena for them to operate.
00:54:58.500And then going all the way down from Syria into Europe till the end of Europe.
00:55:04.480I mean, it could be either Lisbon, London or anywhere else.
00:55:09.140What I have understood is that there is this kind of international body that we can provide much more intelligence to our counterparts around the world,
00:55:21.540even if the terror activity is not really directed to either Israeli entities or to Jewish communities.
00:55:28.020By the way, that was happening too, of course, in Turkey, in Istanbul, against our synagogue and the rabbi and more than that.
00:55:34.900And then I have created the kind of a team that working intensively to create intelligence, to create intelligence together with 8200, of course,
00:55:46.120and to bring it over, to bring it over to my counterparts in the places that we see.
00:55:53.160I mean, ISIS has been interested in operating.
00:55:54.960And that have created the kind of a super strong bonding between me and the MI5 at the time.
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00:58:33.760How severe are the threats to the UK from these terror cells?
00:58:38.020I think that they're all the time there.
00:58:39.660I mean, being part of the West, like not being part of the radicalist Islam, is a kind of a thing that has to be all the time taken care of.
00:58:58.100We're not acceptable by these radicalists.
00:59:00.040I mean, they think that we do not have the right to exist.
00:59:02.560I mean, not only as a country, but as human beings.
00:59:05.660And therefore, I mean, you see a lot of this activity happening all the time.
00:59:09.660I think that currently I'm not aware of the level of the risk or the level of the threat currently.
00:59:14.720I mean, these days in whatever, I mean, September 25.
00:59:17.580But I think that the level of threats are always there and has to be very, very well looked upon to make sure that they will not enter the country, will not enter the houses.
00:59:28.640I think that their activity is still vivid.
00:59:53.020I mean, all over Latin America or even in the USA itself.
00:59:56.720And we'd help to disrupt these ones as well.
01:00:00.120So I think that the level of threat is still there, either from terror groups that are not liking what you do.
01:00:07.240I think that England or the UK should be looking at these because now when you're dealing so openly and maybe in a different manner with legal immigration or illegal immigration,
01:00:20.240and you eventually target some countries, I mean, this could create kind of hate crimes coming in your direction.
01:00:27.080This is happening in the USA right now.
01:00:29.240I mean, you see what happened, unfortunately, I mean, to Charlie Kirk, I mean, a few days ago, I mean, in the USA.
01:00:34.660This is because of maybe opinions and maybe other threats.
01:00:39.060But I truly believe that in order to counter all that, you need a super high level of intelligence internationally.
01:00:45.780I mean, I'm not sure that the threats will come always from the streets of Manchester, Liverpool or whatever, I mean, Glasgow.
01:00:54.060I mean, I think it could come from all over the world.
01:00:56.260I mean, inside your own country, it needs to be worked upon very intensely, I mean, to my understanding.
01:01:02.500It's because, Yossi, as we look at the world now, and you're probably going to push back against this,
01:01:07.120but to a lot of people, the world looks ever more unstable.
01:01:12.220We've gone from going from a unipolar world to a multipolar world.
01:01:16.100Do you think that we've become more unsafe in terms of terrorism, in terms of those types of threats with the world as it is now, as opposed to how it used to be?
01:01:25.880I'm not sure that I will counter that.
01:01:26.780I think that the world is getting crazy.
01:01:28.340I mean, in simple words, I see a different translation of hatred or hate crimes, right?
01:01:34.960And again, I mean, going to Charlie Kirk, what is it?
01:01:37.220Okay, it's a young killer, I mean, 22 years of age, that is taking an own decision.
01:01:44.580It does not belong to an organization.
01:01:48.440I mean, it's not like he's being recruited by Hamas, Hezbollah, or Iran, or whatever it is.
01:01:53.980I mean, he is working for his own by his own, as far as I can understand it today.
01:01:58.360So this kind of instability or this kind of hate crimes, I mean, can happen all over.
01:02:06.060And I think that, yes, we, if I may, as adults, I mean, we have to make sure that our kids and youngsters are not being fed by this kind of stupidity and hatred, I mean, through the social media.
01:02:20.760I mean, social media become to be kind of a tool, I mean, to recruit people without being part of any organization anymore.
01:02:27.500I mean, you don't have to be, you don't have a salary, you don't have a card, you don't have a union.
01:02:32.320You just say, I believe in what they say, and I will act.
01:02:36.020And this is kind of a new threat that is being, I think, placed in our cities.
01:02:40.400In our region, in Israel, I think that when the war will be ended, and I hope that the war will be ended soon, I listen very carefully to what they say in the USA today, right?
01:02:50.880But Witkoff has just announced that we may have, we may be have a kind of a solution soon, I mean, to end the war in Gaza.
01:02:58.460I hope that the war in Gaza will be ended when all these hostages will be eventually returned fully to the state of Israel.
01:03:05.200And this may be kind of a declaration, I mean, to the end of the war in Gaza.
01:03:08.860Meanwhile, we are defeating a lot of terrorists in our region.
01:03:12.960Meanwhile, we are defeating a lot of the Iranian capabilities in their territories.
01:03:17.100Meanwhile, the army, the Syrian army does not exist anymore.
01:03:20.520Meanwhile, we conduct, I would say, quietly, maybe, a kind of a potential peace treaty with other neighbors in the region, i.e. Syria, i.e. Saudi Arabia, sometime in the future.
01:03:34.500So in the end of the war, our territory, I believe, our region will be safer from these huge organizations.
01:03:42.300It is differently translated, I mean, to Europe or to the USA or even inside Israel when you see this kind of less safe environment because of people do not like the others rather than being part of their organization.
01:04:00.080The polarization, as you correctly said, is huge.
01:04:03.400I mean, you don't, I mean, you see that, I mean, polarized, I mean, all over.
01:04:06.940I mean, it is polarized in Israel, unfortunately, right now.
01:04:09.300It is super polarized in the UK, I believe right now.
01:04:12.140It is polarized in the USA and in France and in Hungary and in Germany and all over.
01:04:16.760I mean, you see, I mean, movements that are taking extreme, I mean, either to the right or to the left.
01:05:17.040That's the way Jewish people feel now in the UK.
01:05:20.600And they're worried about themselves living among the UK for hundreds of years, being part of your everything, integrating into the culture, the music, the history, the leadership.
01:05:34.360We had even a Jewish prime minister in England one day.
01:05:39.400I mean, I was there, the audience, listening to the rabbi, saying that or declaring that.
01:05:44.820I think this is something that we have to think about.
01:05:46.840Why is it, actually, that Jewish people in 2025, when the UK is declaring itself one of the strongest democracies on earth, okay, feel that way.
01:06:33.120Yeah, some would say it's about the war in Gaza.
01:06:35.600I would say it's not really connected only to that.
01:06:38.780I mean, there are other elements that are happening, I mean, around us in our society that are breaching our life.
01:06:45.140And I think that it needs either a national or global thinking, I mean, to counter all that and to tell the people, I mean, openly, yeah, we may be different.
01:06:59.740We may have different thoughts about different issues that may be even super important for you or to you, but we're not your enemies.
01:07:07.360Well, we've been trying to make that point on this show for some time now, and I think Charlie Kirk's assassination really focused the mind for a lot of people on that because, as you say, a lot of young people have been badly, badly miseducated when it comes to these issues and the idea that people who disagree can have a conversation.
01:07:26.620And that's the way to adjudicate these disagreements.
01:07:29.300We saw this since Charlie's assassination.
01:07:32.640There was a guy who shot at an ice facility in America.
01:07:37.360Killed three people he was allegedly trying to defend, detainees in the facility.
01:07:44.640And it's one of the things that makes, I think, people extra, feel extra unsafe, is that, and I had this realisation on the day, that all of this was possible always.
01:07:56.000The sniper rifles or a rifle with a scope, they've been there for 200 years.
01:08:01.140So anyone could have been doing this every day for the last 200 years.
01:08:04.600And the only reason they haven't is we didn't have the culture and the technology and whatever else is going on to allow people to be brainwashed in this way and then to go and act in this way.
01:08:15.160Because the physical ability to do this has always been there.
01:08:45.620Because it's super important for the youngsters to listen to you.
01:08:48.200I mean, they have abandoned, I believe, like proper, I mean, conservative TV channels, I mean, which is not using the same methods as the social media.
01:08:57.280But you in between, I think that you can make the corrections needed.
01:09:12.600And when you are not controlling your youngsters and you are not controlling the kids and you are not, like, forbidding something from happening or to being transmitted because everything is in the open.
01:09:27.620I mean, GPT or any other questions they want to ask.
01:09:31.380I mean, you can do and you can go into different directions and everything that has to be controlled should must or must be controlled even better these days.
01:09:41.000And I'm, together with you, I'm absolutely worried about it.
01:09:44.740And I think it's very important on the final note because people, when they talk about Charlie Kirk, understandably, he was a political figure.
01:10:20.580The first time she said, Charlie's words will be echoed even higher now, number one, which is super important because he was trying to make a conversation.
01:10:44.960And I mean, sending her my best condolences and to strengthen what she is doing.
01:10:52.860I would be very happy to help exactly messaging all that, saying that we need to correct all that with open conversation and not conflicting.
01:11:02.760And by the way, politicians all over the world, I mean, not all of them, but part of them, are part of it.
01:11:27.260And no one will eventually dare voting for you.
01:11:31.120And this is something that has to be stopped as well.
01:11:32.980I mean, I refer to that in one of the podcasts in Israel, I mean, recently.
01:11:37.460And I said that the thing that we believe that in order to win the other side's hearts, okay, to bring people from one side to our side, to our direction, is to polarize us one against the other is super wrong.
01:11:52.880And I think that it can create more than different thoughts.
01:11:58.240It can create hate and then crime and then hatred on a certain level and then crime again.
01:12:08.400So it's a kind of a closed circle that will eventually, I mean, it doesn't let the youngsters or the others to go away from this circle because this is only what they consume.
01:12:19.260And this consumption, I mean, should be eventually corrected and stopped in a way.
01:12:24.140I'm not sure if I have the entire method to do that, but I think that you have.
01:12:29.120But anyway, Jos, it's been great talking to you.
01:12:31.100We're going to ask you questions from our supporters in a second.
01:12:33.520Before we do, what is the one thing that we are not talking about at the global level, at the society level that we should be?
01:12:40.500I think that we have to talk about unity.
01:12:43.700And I think that what we, in light of what we have discussed, I mean, just recently, I mean, this is one thing that we have to be discussing in length and in depth, is unity.
01:12:54.400I think that we are much more similar than it seems.
01:12:57.400I think that we have much more in common than it looks like.
01:13:00.620And I think that we have to prefer our unification rather than polarization.
01:13:06.560And this is something that we don't discuss enough, not in Israel, not outside of the state of Israel.