TRIGGERnometry - ＂I'm Controversial Because I Say Things a White Man Can't＂

00:00:00.000 Hello, and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster.

00:00:07.900 I'm Constantine Kishin.

00:00:09.000 And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.

00:00:14.080 Our terrific guest today is a former teacher turned political commentator,

00:00:17.740 Calvin Robinson. Welcome to Trigonometry.

00:00:19.420 It's an absolute pleasure to be here in person. Thank you very much.

00:00:21.920 It's great to have you on, man. Listen, you've been doing the rounds lately,

00:00:26.020 and we like people who piss a lot of people off.

00:00:28.960 And you, I think, are right at the top of that list at the moment.

00:00:31.520 You're doing well.

00:00:32.520 But for anyone who isn't familiar with your background, your story,

00:00:36.020 because as I was saying to you before,

00:00:37.340 a lot of people will see you popping up and talking about

00:00:39.720 some of the things we'll go on to talk about,

00:00:42.080 but they might not be familiar with your backstory.

00:00:44.720 So tell us who are you, how are you, where you are,

00:00:47.640 how have you ended up sitting here talking to us?

00:00:49.560 Good question.

00:00:50.260 So I think, first of all, you said I piss a lot of people off.

00:00:52.840 And I find that fascinating because to me,

00:00:54.560 I'm just speaking normal common sense, British values,

00:00:57.620 the things that I was brought up understanding

00:00:59.800 were what normal people think.

00:01:01.460 I don't try to be extreme.

00:01:03.080 I don't try to be a controvert or anything like that.

00:01:05.720 I just kind of speak my mind.

00:01:07.800 So my background is I'm from the Midlands,

00:01:10.340 a small town called Mansfield in Nottinghamshire,

00:01:12.660 former miners town, very working class background,

00:01:16.020 white mother, black father.

00:01:18.620 My father's family are from Jamaica.

00:01:21.200 They came over here during the Windrush generation.

00:01:23.640 So I've got a lot of experience in what you call

00:01:26.460 racism I was trying to think of a better way of putting it but you know growing up in a as one

00:01:33.420 of the first black families in a very white town I experienced firsthand how bad racism can be in

00:01:38.980 this country which is what leads me quite often to discuss racism in public because I don't think

00:01:45.040 a lot of the time what we're talking about is racism there are a lot of other socio-economic

00:01:49.360 problems in our society a lot of other causes going on and people see racism everywhere but

00:01:54.020 I got involved in politics because essentially, you know, growing up in a single parent household

00:01:59.920 after my parents split, my mother worked really, really hard all of her life to put, you know,

00:02:05.760 food on the table for me and my sister. She's a role model, absolutely. But people around us

00:02:11.260 weren't working as hard as my mother. You know, people were staying at home on benefits and being

00:02:15.220 better off than my mother, who was, you know, she's a lecturer now. But she always worked at

00:02:21.280 least two jobs and I thought something is wrong with our system if people are better off not

00:02:26.380 contributing to society and and people are kind of trapped almost at home there's a system where

00:02:31.620 people are dependent on the states that's not what the welfare system should be about in my

00:02:36.400 opinion it should be there as a safety net for people who really need it but we should encourage

00:02:40.060 people to go out and work and earn a living and get some meaning in their lives and contribute to

00:02:44.540 wider society and I don't think that's what we have at the moment so that's what drove me into

00:02:48.780 into politics and into conservative politics uh so to speak uh you know growing up in a former

00:02:54.940 minors town it was probably quite controversial to have conservative opinions um people aren't

00:03:00.000 necessarily fans of margaret thatcher up there but you know but a lot of them do think with small c

00:03:06.520 values even though they don't label it that way and i think that's the same up and down the country

00:03:10.700 most people in this country are normal small c conservative people that don't want this woke

00:03:15.400 agenda being shoved down their throats all the time which again is another thing that I talk

00:03:19.800 about but as I entered politics I always said I will never talk about race I don't want to be that

00:03:24.980 guy who goes up that mixed race guy who gets shoveled on to talk about race all the time

00:03:28.480 but it's just such an issue and I feel like you know we talk about privilege quite a lot

00:03:33.160 and one of my privileges is that I'm able to have this conversation without people

00:03:36.800 casting aspersions and naturally assuming that I'm racist or for the most part anyway I'm able

00:03:42.400 to say things that the average straight white male isn't allowed to say in this country anymore

00:03:46.380 so I feel like I'm duty bound to stand up and say them which is the reason I stick my head above the

00:03:51.080 parapet so often and often get it chopped off. And you say you are able to say the things that

00:03:57.300 a straight white male is not able to say so what are those things Calvin that for example somebody

00:04:02.540 like me wouldn't be able to say? Thankfully. In my voice. This isn't a systemically racist country

00:04:09.380 that this is a fantastic place to live, one of the best places in the world to live, actually.

00:04:12.860 It's the most tolerant, diverse, inclusive country in the world. And that's why people choose to live

00:04:18.140 here. And people come here and make a success of themselves. And that's fantastic. We should

00:04:22.220 celebrate that. But instead, we focus on the negatives. And we look at our society in every

00:04:26.880 single problem, we pin it down to race these days. And it's not like I said earlier, I've

00:04:30.640 experienced real racism. I'm not discounting people's personal lived experiences. But what

00:04:35.140 I'm saying is if you look for racism everywhere, of course you'll begin to see it. And I have a

00:04:41.140 real problem with, you know, the way we're teaching young people that everything is racist and

00:04:45.720 everyone is racist. As a former teacher, you know, I see all the time this self-perpetuating myth of

00:04:52.340 white supremacy, you know, telling young people that if you're black or of an ethnic minority

00:04:57.840 background, you are going to have hurdles to overcome. There are barriers that people are

00:05:02.340 putting up in your life because of the colour of your skin.

00:05:05.700 Calvin, but isn't that true?

00:05:06.700 Isn't that true even in the way you've described your own story?

00:05:09.280 You talk about growing up in a mixed-race family in the Midlands,

00:05:12.900 being the victim of racism or whatever, experiencing racism.

00:05:16.840 Maybe victim is the wrong word.

00:05:18.020 But that would have been a barrier in your way,

00:05:20.820 surely someone being rude to you or offensive

00:05:22.940 or causing problems at school or whatever it might have been.

00:05:26.660 Would that not have been an extra hurdle

00:05:28.300 that your white classmates wouldn't have had to deal with?

00:05:30.820 no and it depends where we're talking about so it wouldn't have been an extra hurdle because

00:05:34.460 as much as people were offensive to me and caused me upset that wasn't people being discriminatory

00:05:40.700 against me so it wasn't when I went for it to apply for a job they were saying no because you're

00:05:44.480 brown that was people calling me a paki in the street and that's purely ignorance on their part

00:05:48.780 because that is the wrong derogatory term for a start but also it doesn't mean just because I got

00:05:55.180 racially abused because I was one of the few brown people in a in a white town doesn't mean that white

00:05:59.660 people can't get racially abused too. And I work in London schools, for example, where white kids

00:06:04.620 tend to be in the minority, actually. And I see a lot of the racism that goes on in London is

00:06:08.020 towards white people these days. So anyone can be a victim of racism. And we've got to get back to

00:06:14.160 the reclaim our language. You know, racism means discrimination or prejudice against someone

00:06:19.660 because of their ethnicity. It doesn't mean a power struggle between black people and white

00:06:23.180 people. That's, you know, that's what the woke mob have tried to readjust our language to kind of

00:06:27.720 win the battle by default we've got to take the terms back and put put meaning behind our words

00:06:32.640 again and i think a lot of white people at the moment are experiencing racism i think anti-white

00:06:37.980 racism is the most popular racism after anti-semitism at the moment it's it's so fashionable

00:06:42.280 to be anti-white and it's it's acceptable you can talk about the white man as much as you like and

00:06:48.140 no one will blink an eyelid you know no one will raise an eyebrow it's it's completely okay and i

00:06:52.400 don't get why that is. We talk about you know institutional racism and black people being

00:06:58.880 oppressed. I don't feel oppressed. Yes I experienced racism as a child at points but in my

00:07:03.500 in my adult life I don't feel oppressed. In this metropolitan city this capital that we live in I

00:07:09.680 don't feel oppressed but I do see oppression all around me all the time and that is people

00:07:13.640 oppressing the white man. You're not allowed to speak up if you're white. You're not allowed to

00:07:16.980 have an opinion if you're white. You're not allowed to engage in these conversations if you're white.

00:07:20.300 how is that not oppression? And also we talk about the fact that you know we live in this liberal

00:07:27.100 you know metropolitan bubble but why is it acceptable Calvin that if you deviate from

00:07:33.360 the standard rhetoric as a mixed race folk as a as a black guy and you say well I disagree with

00:07:39.520 this why is it then acceptable for somebody to use racial epithets against you? Well exactly

00:07:44.500 because this I'm preaching for equality I hated being the victim of and I don't like that word

00:07:49.160 but the victim of racism or experiencing racism.

00:07:51.500 I don't want anyone to experience racism,

00:07:53.560 whether they're black, white, Asian,

00:07:54.900 it doesn't matter to me.

00:07:55.960 That's what equality means,

00:07:57.040 that nobody should experience that.

00:07:59.320 But the moment I stand up and say that,

00:08:01.100 I get accused of being a race traitor.

00:08:03.100 I get called an Uncle Tom, a coon, a house nigger,

00:08:05.900 all of these horrible, derogatory, racist terms.

00:08:08.740 And people, again, think I'm fair game

00:08:10.420 because I'm not subscribing to their approved narrative.

00:08:13.480 And it's very much a form of control.

00:08:16.340 Like, they don't feel like they control me.

00:08:18.120 therefore I am against them therefore I'm a bad guy and they can call me whatever the hell they

00:08:22.220 like it baffles me how someone can consider themselves an anti-racist while being racist

00:08:28.220 towards people like me and who are the types of people who make these claims who and who say

00:08:33.920 these things to you do they come from a standard part the argument political spectrum race gender

00:08:39.920 etc well it tends to be people on the hard left and quite often it tends to be other people of

00:08:44.820 ethnic minority status so other black and asian people um mostly it's other black people that

00:08:49.780 call me things like house negro but i have been called that recently by a bangladeshi woman which

00:08:53.820 is fascinating for me because that is clearly then racism but it was but it was still accepted

00:08:58.520 and so it comes from this you know stepping away like i say from the approved narrative is

00:09:06.740 it is the establishment's opinion that we need to protect ethnic minorities and i get where

00:09:12.920 they're coming from that's that's a very well-intentioned thing to want to protect people

00:09:16.260 but I think it's patronizing I think we need to treat all people equally we don't need to treat

00:09:19.900 people special in a special way because they happen to have brown skin and that's where it

00:09:24.760 all comes from I think this perceived racism this you know if people don't happen to get where they

00:09:31.400 want to be in life they'll blame it on systemic racism if people don't get a job they'll blame

00:09:36.040 it on racism if people don't um well if people don't get anything at this point people are living

00:09:41.460 very entitled lives, I think. And it's easy to pass on that excuse. But I don't think it's their

00:09:46.180 fault. I don't think people are thinking, you know, oh, I'll blame that on racism. I think

00:09:50.760 they've been taught this from a young age. And, you know, we've talked about this in the past.

00:09:57.880 And I know you've had other guests, because I was a governor at Michaela School, for example,

00:10:01.720 with Catherine Berbison, which she founded. But schools like that. And, you know, while I was in

00:10:06.880 school I've I try to teach all young people that it doesn't matter where you come from doesn't

00:10:12.200 matter what your background is what your race is we're all here together we're British that's the

00:10:15.600 thing that unites us that's our community and if you work hard keep your head in your books you'll

00:10:21.620 be able to make a success of your life whereas a lot of other schools especially in the state

00:10:24.940 sector in this country are teaching young people that actually you know what you're a victim like

00:10:28.640 I said earlier you've got hurdles to overcome you've got barriers and that is self-perpetuating

00:10:32.120 because the more you tell young people that the more they'll start to believe it and on the other

00:10:35.700 end of the spectrum we're telling white kids that you know you're racist you need to have

00:10:39.620 unconscious bias training because whether you're overtly racist or subconsciously racist you are

00:10:44.100 racist because you're white and all white people are racist and that's a given at this point how

00:10:47.980 are we accepting that as a given fact anyone can be racist anyone can be a victim of racism

00:10:52.560 that's a fundamental basic fact that we need to get back to why is it so taboo for somebody of

00:11:00.120 your ethnicity to be conservative in this country so where my father's family are from but okay

00:11:07.900 carry on most people are conservative you know the labor party over there is a conservative party

00:11:12.460 where is this sorry might have just jamaica jamaica yeah so my father's family from jamaica

00:11:16.240 the labor party over there is a conservative party despite the weird name uh most people in

00:11:20.760 the caribbean and most people in africa are small c conservative it's just in this country

00:11:25.180 and in America actually

00:11:27.000 that the left have taken ownership of BMEs

00:11:29.920 of black and ethnic minorities

00:11:31.400 I don't know why I use that term

00:11:32.660 I hate that homogenous term

00:11:34.500 but they've taken ownership of us

00:11:36.420 to take control over us

00:11:38.100 they've said if you don't vote for us

00:11:39.820 you ain't black

00:11:40.300 or we will help you unleash your potential

00:11:42.480 that's the Biden and the Corbyn message

00:11:44.460 that is you are one of us

00:11:46.440 we're here to protect you

00:11:48.120 and they do that on purpose

00:11:49.320 because they want our vote

00:11:50.340 whereas they're not looking after our interests

00:11:52.080 and I am a small c conservative

00:11:54.260 because I believe that the family unit is the basic fundamental beacon of society and once we

00:12:01.180 lose the family we have a breakdown in our systems in our way of life and that's why we're seeing

00:12:06.700 such you know rises in knife crime in London that's why everything is falling apart because

00:12:11.060 we've lost faith and we've lost family and those are the two fundamentals of our society that we've

00:12:15.220 we've kind of let the left break apart but that's the reason I am a small sea conservative but

00:12:20.360 saying that for some reason sets me apart from the left and where they perceive black people to

00:12:27.680 be or where they think we should be i don't know that bme term is interesting isn't it because i

00:12:32.220 i often think it's just another way of just saying those darkies over there isn't it really

00:12:37.840 well it is it's another term for non-whites and again it's pinning people against each other it's

00:12:42.040 divisive it's toxic it's saying you are either white or you're not right you're one of us or

00:12:46.840 you're not one of us and if you're not one of us we need to help you we need to support you we need

00:12:49.520 to patronise you, and that's not true.

00:12:52.460 But think of the, what I'm getting at is think of the massive amount

00:12:55.620 of variety or that word diversity within that group.

00:12:59.740 The idea that you can put Indian people with Pakistani,

00:13:02.600 they're fighting a fucking nuclear war over there, right?

00:13:04.580 They're not the same.

00:13:05.900 They don't have the same views or values or attitudes or heritage

00:13:08.640 or education or any of that.

00:13:10.520 And then you take Afro-Caribbean people like yourself

00:13:13.060 and then people who come first-generation immigrants from Africa.

00:13:15.940 the differences between those groups are sometimes bigger than the differences

00:13:20.600 between a white British person and a black British person.

00:13:23.720 100%. They couldn't be more diametrically opposed.

00:13:25.940 So, again, from my education perspective,

00:13:28.660 we see black African children excelling throughout school,

00:13:31.060 through primary school, through secondary school.

00:13:32.860 They're doing a lot better than every other demographic, pretty much,

00:13:35.940 especially white British kids and black Caribbean kids.

00:13:39.560 White British kids and black Caribbean kids are almost at the bottom of the scale.

00:13:43.620 It's only travelers and gypsies that are actually below them.

00:13:47.040 And black African kids are twice as likely to go to university.

00:13:49.860 So it's not a case of, you know, systemic racism,

00:13:52.760 because if it is, people are picking apart black kids and saying,

00:13:56.940 well, we'll treat the African kids different to the Caribbean kids.

00:13:59.160 I don't think most people would even see the difference, to be honest with you.

00:14:02.240 I think what's happening here is a difference in values.

00:14:05.580 And again, it comes down to family and faith.

00:14:07.440 And African families tend to still have their faith

00:14:10.160 and tend to still see the family as important.

00:14:13.560 And we've had a breakdown, unfortunately,

00:14:15.080 in the Caribbean communities of family.

00:14:16.760 We have a massive issue with fatherlessness

00:14:18.460 and there's a lack of faith there these days as well,

00:14:21.920 which we wouldn't see if we went back to the Caribbean

00:14:24.260 and we'd see a lot more faith than we do in British Caribbean families,

00:14:27.620 which is a shame.

00:14:29.440 And that's the same with white British.

00:14:31.980 The family issue is what's happened,

00:14:34.500 the breakdown in the family and the breakdown in faith.

00:14:36.160 Can I just say before you ask your question,

00:14:38.060 I think we're setting some kind of record

00:14:39.360 for the number of racial slurs

00:14:40.840 that have been answered

00:14:41.980 in the course of this conversation.

00:14:45.420 I mean, yeah, it is.

00:14:46.980 Don't you come out with one, mate.

00:14:48.300 We're allowed.

00:14:50.280 Well, my mum's brown anyway.

00:14:52.080 That's not going to help, mate.

00:14:53.300 I know.

00:14:54.260 Look how pink you are already.

00:14:55.940 It's just not going to help.

00:14:56.980 It's equality.

00:14:57.740 If we're allowed to say something,

00:14:58.680 he's allowed to say something.

00:14:59.480 If he's not allowed to say something,

00:15:00.920 neither are we.

00:15:01.720 Go for it.

00:15:02.140 Go for it.

00:15:02.700 My mum is from the Caribbean.

00:15:04.540 She's from Latin America.

00:15:06.260 Where's my support?

00:15:07.400 I've always wanted to do this show by myself.

00:15:09.360 where's my anyway um can you get cancelled any further at this point probably not let's try it

00:15:17.100 let's find out but calvin here's the thing do you think that there have been some scars inflicted

00:15:23.860 upon the british caribbean community because they came here during wind rush they endured that

00:15:28.760 racism that inequality that open hostility whilst a lot of first generation for instance

00:15:34.480 African families who come here in 2010, 11, they're not going to be exposed to that as or as much of

00:15:40.740 that because we're quite literally a different society than we were back then. It's an interesting

00:15:45.900 perspective but I don't think it's true. I think you know when my grandparents came over here they

00:15:50.060 really really relished the opportunity to come over here during Windrush, they celebrated it,

00:15:53.440 they wanted to become Brits and they were proud to be Commonwealth citizens and all of that and

00:15:58.280 yes they experienced a lot of racism but we have made progress. I often say you know my father

00:16:02.620 experienced a lot less racism than his father and i experienced a lot less than him doesn't mean we

00:16:06.060 didn't experience any and it doesn't mean that we don't need to still work on it but we've come a

00:16:09.420 long way and i think the generation after me the young kids that we see today especially in inner

00:16:14.380 city schools and london schools where they are no longer the minority and they're no longer

00:16:19.100 experiencing racism especially not on the level of people from the windows generation what we're

00:16:24.060 seeing is a loss of identity so for example my grandparents while they were proud to be become

00:16:30.380 British they were also proud to be Jamaican and my father being born born here he's proud to be

00:16:35.620 half British half Jamaican whereas the you know we're getting to the third and fourth generations

00:16:39.980 now where people are like okay so what is my identity how should I identify and what we've

00:16:45.220 what we're missing is you know in schools for example we don't promote British values the

00:16:49.860 teaching standards say don't undermine the British values and I think if we promoted them

00:16:53.520 and gave something for people to latch on to then they'd have that sense of belonging that

00:16:57.840 every single human being needs but because they don't have that they get and they're getting told

00:17:02.460 left right and center that the color of their skin is the core of their identity they're like so what

00:17:06.460 does that mean what does it mean to be black british or black caribbean british this day and

00:17:11.280 age it doesn't really mean anything because caribbean people integrated into british society

00:17:15.960 very well uh there is no segregation there whatsoever whereas in america which is where

00:17:21.940 they often look there is there's a completely different environment you know african americans

00:17:26.060 are a community and there was a lot of segregation in America and they had a lot of race rights and

00:17:31.360 they only just reached a level of well there's just about reaching a level of equality whereas

00:17:36.440 we've had that so when our young people are looking to American culture hip-hop culture

00:17:41.000 African-American culture all of that and taking it on board they're addressing issues and seeing

00:17:45.420 issues that don't necessarily affect us and we saw that with Black Lives Matter over last summer

00:17:49.880 where you know kids in London were fighting against police brutality we don't have police

00:17:54.840 brutality in this country they're saying you know take your knee off my neck and and you know get

00:18:00.400 rid of police guns and very few police have guns over here you know there's there's no issue with

00:18:04.360 with police racism in the UK it's it's completely a case of us importing US drama and that's that's

00:18:11.860 because our kids are so lost and they don't have an identity. It's interesting that you keep coming

00:18:16.180 back to British values and I'm working on my first book and it will be largely about the West needing

00:18:21.740 to stand up for itself and remember what its values are.

00:18:24.540 But we were discussing it the other day, actually,

00:18:27.220 and you are probably second maybe to Catherine Burble Singh,

00:18:30.900 who you used to work with.

00:18:32.320 You are our two most patriotic guests, I would say,

00:18:35.860 in the entire history of the show

00:18:37.300 in terms of being openly talking about British.

00:18:41.440 Catherine talks about having a British flag at the school

00:18:43.940 and teaching kids British values and reminding.

00:18:47.180 And I think that really,

00:18:48.860 As we become more and more a multi-ethnic society,

00:18:52.480 if we don't do that part of it,

00:18:55.300 oh, that is not a good path to go down, is it?

00:18:58.600 A hundred percent.

00:18:59.380 And you've put the nail on the head right there

00:19:00.800 with a multi-ethnic society.

00:19:02.320 That's what we should be striving to achieve,

00:19:04.880 a multi-ethnic society, not a multicultural society.

00:19:07.600 We've kind of diluted our own values

00:19:09.800 under the premise of inclusivity.

00:19:11.940 We don't really understand what inclusivity means.

00:19:13.900 And we kind of think it means, okay, everyone is welcome

00:19:15.900 and we'll take all your values on board and dilute our own

00:19:18.420 because we don't want to offend you.

00:19:19.440 We don't want to be seen as anti-whatever you are.

00:19:21.440 So we'll take your values on board.

00:19:23.020 And we've lost our own sense of value.

00:19:25.000 We've lost British values along the way

00:19:26.800 because we've been so afraid of offending people

00:19:29.080 and so afraid of affirming our own values.

00:19:31.200 And we need to, like you say,

00:19:32.300 stand up for our own values again and say,

00:19:34.220 yeah, it's fine to be proud, to be British.

00:19:36.360 This is a fantastic place to live.

00:19:37.740 Like I said, this is why so many people

00:19:38.820 are coming to live here.

00:19:39.640 It's an amazing country with an amazing history

00:19:42.000 and good values, you know?

00:19:44.320 And when people say, so what does that mean?

00:19:46.660 What are British values?

00:19:47.600 And I say, well, whatever you think they mean,

00:19:50.140 it is an intangible thing on one level.

00:19:52.300 But on the other level,

00:19:53.820 the government did try to pin them down.

00:19:55.520 And they said, you know,

00:19:56.440 tolerance of people of other faiths and non,

00:19:59.880 democracy, the rule of law.

00:20:02.020 And these are things that we celebrate.

00:20:03.760 And these are things that, again,

00:20:04.860 people come back at me and say,

00:20:05.840 well, Calvin, they're not exclusive to Britain.

00:20:08.260 And I'm like, well, no one's saying

00:20:09.860 they're exclusively ours,

00:20:11.240 but I can certainly name a few countries

00:20:12.520 that wouldn't celebrate these values.

00:20:14.580 That's why they're so important to us.

00:20:16.120 we helped spread parliamentary democracy around the world and again people will talk about the

00:20:21.620 empire and say oh we were the evil british empire but there's so much we've lost a sense of context

00:20:27.500 and we lost a sense of balance there was so much good that came out of that as well even me saying

00:20:30.820 that i'm probably gonna get cancelled just for saying that now it's absolutely ridiculous that

00:20:33.720 you can't have a balanced conversation but you know we helped spread parliamentary democracy we

00:20:37.360 spread christianity we helped spread schools and hospitals and charities and the english language

00:20:42.100 for goodness sake a lot of good came out of it but also a lot of atrocities that we should

00:20:46.740 absolutely address and we should teach history holistically i'm not denying that but let's not

00:20:51.360 try and paint everything in a binary picture of black and white and automatically stick with the

00:20:55.460 negative you know it's it's usually our intellectuals as well that are so quick to

00:20:59.320 denounce british values and british culture as a bad thing uh for the world and you know western

00:21:04.720 values as well and just say the west is evil and bad you're like well not really you know if you're

00:21:09.380 not relatively speaking and not if you look at what's happening in the rest of the world

00:21:12.760 And even this last year or so,

00:21:14.860 with what's happening with the coronavirus,

00:21:18.480 people are afraid to criticise China in any way, shape, or form.

00:21:21.700 But if they did anything, if we did anything, rather,

00:21:25.260 like what they're doing over there with the Uyghur Muslims,

00:21:27.900 the atrocities, the genocide,

00:21:30.440 if we did anything like that, they'd be so quick to denounce us.

00:21:33.240 So why are they afraid of looking outwardly?

00:21:37.020 It's cultural relativism.

00:21:38.360 It's their culture Chinese people are supposed to put each other in camps.

00:21:41.300 That's how these people think.

00:21:42.640 But I think it's patronising.

00:21:43.760 Of course it's patronising.

00:21:44.720 It's because they're foreign.

00:21:46.220 They don't understand things like we do.

00:21:47.820 They're not at our level.

00:21:49.000 They're not as liberal as us.

00:21:49.840 So we can't expect that of them.

00:21:51.240 No, absolutely we can.

00:21:52.140 Of course we can.

00:21:53.120 We should expect every country to have a basic level of human rights

00:21:56.580 and decency towards other people.

00:21:58.340 Unless we do trade with them, in which case you crack on, mate.

00:22:01.780 We still want your cheaply made crap over here.

00:22:04.620 Calvin, let me ask you this, moving on slightly,

00:22:06.860 although it's a similar subject,

00:22:08.240 and I've asked this question of dozens of our guests

00:22:10.640 and all have given their own version of it.

00:22:12.600 But you're someone who's been very,

00:22:14.540 particularly coming from the educational background

00:22:16.460 that you do,

00:22:17.540 you're someone who seems to me

00:22:18.800 to have a very kind of precise

00:22:20.360 and nailed down definition of this.

00:22:22.620 Can you explain to an ordinary person

00:22:24.380 who's just picked up a newspaper

00:22:25.640 and they're reading about CRT for the 73rd time

00:22:28.760 without really knowing what it is?

00:22:30.560 And frankly, I put myself in that camp.

00:22:32.160 I think about these issues very carefully.

00:22:34.300 But if you ask me, Constantine,

00:22:36.060 can you define what CRT is in two sentences

00:22:38.460 on live television,

00:22:39.360 I'd probably struggle right so first of all before we get into talking about it what is critical race

00:22:45.800 theory so critical race theory is the idea that white people have some kind of privilege

00:22:51.220 and black people are naturally oppressed based on the color of their skin that's that's it in a

00:22:58.040 sentence uh but then people will come back and say no what we're actually saying is that you know

00:23:02.120 you won't be discriminated against because of the color of your skin if you're white that's what

00:23:06.280 white privilege means and even that isn't true because like i say i've worked in a lot of london

00:23:09.660 schools and i've seen a lot of white kids be bullied because they're white and you know if

00:23:13.460 you take that to a wider issue we can address the grooming gangs well we've had a survivor of that

00:23:18.520 so it absolutely is possible for anyone to be discriminated against based on the color of their

00:23:23.440 skin that is what racism is um so i don't think white privilege is a thing i think white working

00:23:28.400 class kids and white working class people in particular have been left behind in this country

00:23:32.660 and almost forgotten about because it's unfashionable to address the situation if you say you want to

00:23:38.660 support white working class kids or white working class people in general you are going to be

00:23:43.780 perceived as a racist what do you have against brown kids why don't you want to help the black

00:23:47.120 kids or the asian kids and it's not about picking who you want to help it's about looking at who's

00:23:52.640 not doing well and trying to level the playing field and we do that by introducing equality and

00:23:58.200 stop treating brown and Asian kids differently stop treating black kids differently based on

00:24:02.680 the color of their skin that's the only reason white kids are left behind it's not because we're

00:24:05.340 not addressing them it's because we're too busy addressing other people if we treated all kids

00:24:09.220 equally across the board and raised our standards for everyone all kids will thrive and that's the

00:24:13.280 same in society same issue in society that we see in schools and why is it that suddenly you know I

00:24:18.660 understand to a certain extent these ideas become popular in academia but why is it they get

00:24:23.880 filtered down into our education system we've got enough of a battle trying to get kids to read and

00:24:29.520 write and be actually literate by the time they come out of school why are we filling their heads

00:24:34.440 with this stuff it's because well-meaning individuals want to make a difference and

00:24:38.340 they want to be seen to be doing the right thing um on one level and there's some on some level

00:24:42.580 there's people that want to be virtue signaling and showing everyone else how much of a good

00:24:46.100 person they are and the way to do that is to say that you are an anti-racist or to say that

00:24:51.580 you believe um that black people are oppressed in this country and that this country is systemically

00:24:57.360 racist but if you ask anyone in what way is this country systemically racist in what way are you

00:25:03.160 held back by the color of your skin very rarely will you get an answer um you know people will

00:25:08.600 say well the nhs is racist or the police are racist or education is racist i'm like okay give

00:25:13.200 me a prime example and i like people to give me examples in education just because that's my field

00:25:16.740 but they never ever can and the only thing they ever say to me is well i look in the textbooks

00:25:20.980 and I don't see people that look like me.

00:25:23.360 But that's just illogical

00:25:24.480 because this is a country that's been predominantly white

00:25:26.480 throughout its entire history.

00:25:28.120 Of course, most people in British history

00:25:30.000 will have white faces,

00:25:31.400 but that doesn't mean you can't learn from them

00:25:33.220 unless you are racist

00:25:34.340 and you can only learn from people that look like you.

00:25:36.580 That's quite an interesting take.

00:25:38.440 And then people say, but I want representation.

00:25:40.060 I want to see more people that look like me.

00:25:42.440 I respond, well, be that person then,

00:25:44.260 be that role model for other people.

00:25:45.420 If representation is important to you

00:25:46.940 and you are, you know, superficial diversity

00:25:49.720 is an important issue for you,

00:25:51.480 then be the brown face that's doing computer science

00:25:54.420 or whatever field you want to go into

00:25:55.960 and be a role model for other people.

00:25:57.680 But I don't think superficial diversity is important.

00:26:00.260 I don't think we should be focusing

00:26:01.520 on the skin color of people.

00:26:02.840 I think we should be looking at what they've achieved

00:26:04.380 and what they've brought to our society.

00:26:06.260 You know, people like Tim Berners-Lee

00:26:07.540 who invented the internet, the World Wide Web.

00:26:10.260 People like that, we should be celebrating

00:26:11.440 as British icons and we're not able to

00:26:14.300 because he happens to be white.

00:26:15.560 So we have to look for someone who's brown

00:26:17.680 And in education, again, we talk about replacing people

00:26:21.200 like Mozart on the curriculum with Stormzy.

00:26:23.900 Mozart, who happened to influence music,

00:26:26.500 the way we compose music, the way we think about music,

00:26:28.880 for decades.

00:26:30.740 Stormzy, who has a popular song,

00:26:33.060 Shut Up, Shut Up, Rude Boy, Shut Up.

00:26:34.580 Not quite on the same level, is it?

00:26:37.540 But he happens to be brown and popular.

00:26:39.400 So of course, let's put him on the curriculum.

00:26:41.360 To me, it's bonkers.

00:26:42.440 And this is the fundamental problem

00:26:43.560 with what's going on in society at the moment.

00:26:45.340 It's all topsy-turvy.

00:26:46.760 And I think most people see the world the way that we do,

00:26:49.600 in a normal way.

00:26:51.060 But we've been taken over almost by the woke mob,

00:26:54.060 the virtue signers who want to be seen to be doing the right thing

00:26:56.420 and want to be seen to be good people in the eyes of each other.

00:27:00.080 And they are the vocal minority.

00:27:02.140 And this is why at the beginning you said to me,

00:27:04.080 you piss a lot of people off.

00:27:05.080 And I'm genuinely just talking normal common sense values

00:27:08.980 as far as I see.

00:27:09.780 I'm not trying to be controversial.

00:27:12.440 Well, it's the same with us.

00:27:13.440 We don't even necessarily advocate any specific set of values.

00:27:16.860 We just talk to different people about them, and we piss people off from doing it.

00:27:20.880 But I was going to ask you, do you think your mixed-race background informs some of your views where you have, you know, your mom is white.

00:27:29.840 So when people talk about the white people being their oppressor, you're not thinking about a generic category.

00:27:35.600 You're thinking probably, I would imagine, of your mom.

00:27:37.880 And you're going, well, my mom's not going around oppressing people.

00:27:40.340 In fact, she raised me.

00:27:41.560 Do you know what I mean?

00:27:42.060 does that inform your thoughts on this issue it does sometimes it's interesting because

00:27:46.020 being mixed race means i'm not white therefore in most people's eyes i'm just black so people

00:27:52.960 disregard half of my heritage half of my background half of my upbringing half of my

00:27:57.860 skin color um which i found to be quite a level of racism actually in that why if you're not 100%

00:28:06.220 white are you therefore by default black yeah um so it does affect my world view in that

00:28:12.140 being mixed race i have a lot of people in my family that are black and a lot of people in

00:28:17.620 my family that are white and on both sides have experienced racism which is why i know that

00:28:22.400 anyone can experience racism but also it affects me in that a lot of black people who are racist

00:28:27.740 towards me are kind of upset on some level because i'm not 100 black and i'm not 100 white

00:28:34.720 i don't know it's i think bisexual people have the same issue

00:28:38.820 they have a lot of animosity towards i love the way you look to you

00:28:42.220 but this is what i hear anyway yeah i think it's like people want so badly to categorize you to

00:28:49.100 put you in a box if you don't fit in that box they don't know how to deal with you and they

00:28:52.740 see you as a problem something to handle i'm not a problem but i think if we really really push

00:28:58.460 this british values thing and move the conversation away from skin color like morgan freeman says

00:29:02.760 stop talking about it that's the way to get rid of racism um eventually i reckon we'll probably

00:29:07.920 all end up being beige anyway as we you know as society progresses and it will become less of an

00:29:13.300 issue but yeah i think it has on some level but not on a conscious level affected the way i think

00:29:19.320 have you ever been abroad and felt out of place because you didn't speak the language

00:29:25.720 no because i voted brexit brexit means brexit i know that sometimes you're abroad you don't

00:29:31.500 speak a local language it's very awkward like france is talking to a woman so you have to shout

00:29:36.140 do you want to learn another language i don't for obvious reasons but if you do babble is quite

00:29:42.380 simply one of the finest language learning apps in the business babble offers a clear and easy

00:29:48.980 to use interface they have daily 10 to 15 minute lessons that have been proven effective across

00:29:54.220 many studies showing that you can learn up to 14 languages that they offer so it doesn't matter if

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00:30:05.300 right now babble is offering our fans six months free on a six-month subscription with babble

00:30:11.680 using our special code which is of course trigger that's babble b a b b e l dot co dot uk

00:30:21.460 slash play and use the promo code trigger look at that spelling he learned english on babble

00:30:27.400 I did. But seriously, go to babble.co.uk forward slash play, use our code trigger and enjoy Babble.

00:30:38.180 It's a very interesting point you make. So I weirdly classify myself as mixed race. Mother's

00:30:43.580 Latin American, grandfather was an Arab. You know, I looked like my father, I got my father's Irish

00:30:49.300 skin. But one of the questions and one of the things that come in from two completely different

00:30:54.200 cultures, and I don't know if you've experienced this, is that you never truly feel neither one

00:30:59.040 nor the other. You always feel somehow on the outside because you are always, you can connect

00:31:05.540 with one culture, but there's always something a little bit different because of the experiences

00:31:09.060 that you've had with another culture. Do you ever find that? No, because I see my culture as British

00:31:16.140 entirely. I'm half white, half black, but 100% British because my mother's British,

00:31:21.680 my father's British

00:31:22.560 yes they have

00:31:24.720 they have different

00:31:26.560 bring different elements

00:31:27.380 of culture into it

00:31:28.240 but my culture is British

00:31:29.120 so my mother's

00:31:29.700 for example

00:31:30.220 from the Midlands

00:31:30.900 she'll say

00:31:32.420 and you know

00:31:34.220 we have certain dishes up there

00:31:35.820 and certain customs up there

00:31:37.220 that wouldn't

00:31:38.140 you wouldn't see in London

00:31:38.980 that's part of her culture

00:31:40.600 whereas my father

00:31:41.460 he has you know

00:31:42.520 Jamaican dishes

00:31:43.520 and he'll say

00:31:44.740 and he wouldn't say that

00:31:47.120 but you know what I mean

00:31:48.920 so they have different dialects

00:31:50.540 they have different

00:31:51.220 recipe dishes different food types different uh cultural norms but bring those together what

00:31:57.220 unites them both is Britishness in my in my opinion so I don't have a problem with my identity

00:32:03.200 that is that is the core of my identity after my faith and everything else comes secondary to that

00:32:08.480 and you talk about your faith and you're a Christian yeah and why do you think your faith

00:32:14.280 is so important to you uh so many reasons but i think what faith does is it takes us out of

00:32:22.580 ourselves and i think we've got a very selfish society at the moment um and christian values

00:32:27.600 and british values used to be about service and duty and community and family and putting others

00:32:34.160 before yourself um and i think we've lost a lot of that and all of that stuff would really help

00:32:39.500 us at the moment actually people are always striving for personal happiness whatever makes

00:32:43.700 them happy as an individual. And I'm all for people living individual lives and being individuals,

00:32:47.900 but we do have to at some point consider society if we want it to survive and if we want it to

00:32:54.300 be meaningful. And do you think part of the crisis that we're seeing is actually the fact that we

00:32:58.600 don't have faith anymore? We don't have a belief in God? 100%. So if we look at what's happening,

00:33:03.180 for example, with Extinction Rebellion, Black Lives Matter, all of these really extreme hard

00:33:08.940 left groups, people are latching onto them because they don't have a faith anymore. They

00:33:13.220 don't have a religion but that leaves people with a void they need a belief structure and if we look

00:33:17.820 at what these things are doing they are like cults you know extinction rebellion have vestments and

00:33:21.620 all these blood cult things that they do in the streets and black lives matter have their chants

00:33:26.800 and they are filling a void for people that people need something spiritual in their lives and if you

00:33:32.100 don't see it in your faith then you reach out wherever it is being given and at the moment

00:33:36.460 it's these extremist left-wing groups that are saying come join us we'll give you a sense of

00:33:40.020 belonging will give you a sense of purpose and the god that they worship is themselves

00:33:44.660 and that's rather unfortunate well speaking of bringing people together there's there used to

00:33:50.120 be an institution that was designed in this country to some extent to do that to create a

00:33:55.660 common uh culture you know in terms of comedy politics look at the ways responding to i'm

00:34:03.720 talking of course about the bbc uh you're not a fan of the bbc i used to be you know when john

00:34:10.940 benjamin talked about churches and and uh kenneth clark did his civilization and when the bbc used

00:34:17.900 to put out content that no one else could do but now they're not doing that anymore they've become

00:34:22.100 a commercial entity in and of themselves they're not producing anything that any other station

00:34:25.920 couldn't produce um they're i don't know mate some of that woke comedy you have to get taxpayers to

00:34:32.780 Pay for that shit.

00:34:34.140 That's a good point.

00:34:35.680 What are they doing that's unique?

00:34:37.160 You know, they're supposed to inform, educate.

00:34:39.360 How are they doing either of those things?

00:34:41.240 BBC World Service, you could argue.

00:34:43.920 The World Service is great,

00:34:45.700 but is that enough to pay £160 a year for?

00:34:50.180 I think what we need to do is look at what the BBC does well

00:34:53.040 and enable them to do that without us having to pay a TV tax.

00:34:57.620 So the remit used to work when they first came about.

00:35:00.240 They were one of, well, they were at the earlier station at the time,

00:35:02.440 but then they became one of only two or four stations it made sense for things to work the way

00:35:06.980 they did but now we're paying the BBC for the privilege of watching any other live television

00:35:11.840 whether the BBC's had an input in that or not that doesn't make logical sense to me first and

00:35:16.100 foremost but then the content that the BBC does put out is entirely woke you know everything is

00:35:21.140 about social justice issues everything is about lecturing the British public on how they should

00:35:26.200 think what they should be saying what they shouldn't be saying what's no longer appropriate

00:35:29.340 to think or say or do and i don't i don't think people like that i don't think people like being

00:35:34.200 lectured to by one particular perspective at all times there's no balance there there's no

00:35:39.480 conversation or debate it is just this is our view this is the appropriate approved view that

00:35:45.340 everyone should be subscribing to and if you're not you're a bad person and that's why we're seeing

00:35:49.420 wokeery everywhere because it's perpetuated from bbc from channel 4 from itv all of mainstream

00:35:54.360 media is on it at this point but the difference is that we have to pay for the bbc and look

00:35:58.880 Okay, Calvin, here is a reason why I still want the BBC to exist, okay?

00:36:05.940 We need something in the centre, which brings people from left, from right,

00:36:10.200 conservatives, libertarians, all the rest of it, where they can come,

00:36:13.480 where we can share ideas, where we can talk.

00:36:15.640 Because otherwise, if we don't have that, then what we end up with is America,

00:36:19.460 with people on their individual little stations talking to each other.

00:36:23.060 We create echo chambers.

00:36:24.660 We're just going to exacerbate the polarisation in society.

00:36:28.880 and ultimately, arguably, bring the downfall of society

00:36:33.360 because we won't be able to communicate.

00:36:35.560 I mean, you're right on so many levels,

00:36:37.100 but I don't think that's what the BBC does.

00:36:38.920 Well, it does bring people together from the left and right

00:36:40.940 in that, you know, as part of our Defund the BBC campaign,

00:36:43.800 we hear from people on the right saying,

00:36:45.360 the BBC is so left-wing,

00:36:46.940 and people on the left saying, the BBC is so right-wing.

00:36:49.360 And it's not, it's just metropolitan, liberal elite.

00:36:51.300 They have their own political perspective

00:36:52.580 and it annoys everybody.

00:36:54.540 So they do bring people together in that respect,

00:36:56.180 but they don't bring us together for debate or conversation.

00:36:58.880 How many right-wing comedians do we see on the BBC?

00:37:02.280 Jeff Norcott?

00:37:03.200 Yeah.

00:37:05.380 This is the problem, isn't it?

00:37:06.860 I mean, in fairness,

00:37:08.060 that argument is slightly more complicated than that

00:37:10.360 because neither Francis or I are right-wing.

00:37:14.880 Depends who you ask, Matt.

00:37:15.940 No, no.

00:37:16.520 According to some people, we're far right.

00:37:18.360 Of course we are.

00:37:19.520 Just because we talk to you, mate,

00:37:21.100 that's how that works.

00:37:22.720 But there are not many right-wing comedians,

00:37:26.160 and that's...

00:37:27.160 That's nonsense.

00:37:27.900 There's loads on YouTube and on Twitter and Instagram.

00:37:31.680 I'm not saying they don't exist.

00:37:33.500 I'm saying if you look at the body of the comedy industry,

00:37:37.320 the vast majority of comedians are not right-wing.

00:37:40.280 And so if you have fewer people,

00:37:42.020 then you're going to end up with fewer people making it to the top

00:37:44.320 because statistically there's going to be a small percentage

00:37:46.700 who are good enough.

00:37:47.820 So the reason you don't see a lot of right-wing comedians on the BBC,

00:37:53.300 partly, but only partly, and this is important, it's a nuanced point,

00:37:56.180 is because there's not a lot of them around.

00:37:58.680 There's not a lot of them around.

00:38:00.300 Having said that, what I would argue is the BBC

00:38:03.580 is definitely biased against them as well,

00:38:06.360 and it's biased against other people who are just simply not woke.

00:38:10.580 That's, to me, more the drawing line.

00:38:13.180 But I think just in the same way that we should be careful

00:38:15.740 when we talk about representation in terms of race,

00:38:19.260 we should also be careful in that.

00:38:21.240 Just because there's some kind of disparity in outcome

00:38:23.740 doesn't mean there's discrimination going on, necessarily.

00:38:26.760 Spot on.

00:38:27.620 So I think that's an important point to make.

00:38:30.060 You know, I'm sort of with Francis, but also with you,

00:38:33.500 because I feel very woke about the BBC

00:38:35.920 in that I don't care about reality, I just care about how I feel.

00:38:39.460 And I just have that hope that it could be the vehicle

00:38:43.360 that brings people together.

00:38:44.560 My concern is actually technology.

00:38:46.880 Young people don't watch the BBC.

00:38:49.620 So is it even going to be around 50 years from now?

00:38:53.560 Do young people not watch the one show?

00:38:56.940 There's so much to break down in that.

00:38:58.280 I do want to address the diversity thing.

00:38:59.540 Yeah, let us talk about it.

00:39:00.440 Just because I'm not saying there should be quotas

00:39:03.000 of how many right-wing people are on the BBC.

00:39:04.820 I don't believe in diversity quotas.

00:39:06.640 I think they're fraud.

00:39:07.800 But what I'm saying is they're addressing diversity

00:39:10.560 in other ways that are making the issue worse.

00:39:12.580 So they're spending £100 million a year

00:39:14.240 on making sure they have more brown faces,

00:39:17.040 more brown faces that think alike.

00:39:18.560 To me, that's a problem.

00:39:20.180 At the same time as charging us all extra

00:39:22.180 for our license fee at the same time

00:39:24.120 as now charging over 75s for their license fee.

00:39:27.140 So they're willing to splash out money

00:39:28.380 on superficial diversity that makes no difference

00:39:30.480 while at the same time chasing us for money.

00:39:32.920 But what's your second point about,

00:39:34.400 oh, you want them to exist?

00:39:35.600 Absolutely.

00:39:36.480 In theory.

00:39:37.180 I like the theory.

00:39:37.920 It's like communism.

00:39:38.660 It's great in theory.

00:39:39.740 Is it though?

00:39:40.900 I'm all for the BBC existing.

00:39:42.560 I'm not saying it needs to be gone completely.

00:39:44.640 I'm saying we need to loosen the reins.

00:39:46.680 If they want to be woke, let them be woke,

00:39:48.600 but don't make me pay for it.

00:39:50.240 So maybe they should have a different business model

00:39:52.740 where they get revenue on a global marketplace or something.

00:39:56.580 I don't know.

00:39:56.960 If they think their content is worthy enough,

00:39:58.780 people will pay for it, surely.

00:40:00.520 I don't know why we're forced under threat of prosecution

00:40:03.000 to pay for it.

00:40:03.860 I totally understand that argument,

00:40:06.160 and we hear it all the time, and I totally get it.

00:40:09.060 I just worry, Calvin, that once you get rid of it,

00:40:12.300 you are crossing the Rubicon,

00:40:14.880 and there's literally no way back.

00:40:16.840 my hope is like all this woke shit settles down 10 years from now and then the bbc kind of goes

00:40:23.900 actually we've got it a bit wrong let's actually make content that everyone can enjoy do you know

00:40:28.900 what i mean like you can sit with your you know slightly racist grandfather and your woke pink

00:40:33.580 haired 18 year old and they can all enjoy a show together yeah do you know what i mean i know what

00:40:39.860 you mean i just don't know if we're heading in that direction no we're not heading in that

00:40:42.240 direction absolutely not there's a new nonsense every day isn't there there's a new woke way

00:40:46.240 every single day.

00:40:47.240 I could sit here and list them.

00:40:48.540 I'm sure you guys could.

00:40:49.600 But unless I see us heading in the other direction,

00:40:52.480 I don't see anyone taking us in that direction at the moment.

00:40:54.800 I don't think the government's really addressing the woke issue,

00:40:56.860 the cultural wars, if you want to call them that.

00:40:59.420 I don't know who is.

00:41:01.220 We are.

00:41:02.400 It's left down to the three of us.

00:41:03.980 Well, exactly.

00:41:04.680 But this is the problem.

00:41:05.520 Are we big enough to take on the BBC and mainstream media?

00:41:09.900 So maybe we need to do something about it.

00:41:11.440 do you think that defunding it is the way to go do you think that is a way to solve this

00:41:17.900 particular problem money is always the way to solve a problem isn't it

00:41:21.240 cut off their purse strings and they'll stop doing whatever it is you know it's like uh these

00:41:27.540 universities in america that said they were institutionally racist and trump said okay

00:41:31.020 well if you're racist we'll stop funding you then and all of a sudden okay what we meant was

00:41:34.960 it's the same with that i think if the bbc wants to be completely woke let them do it but don't

00:41:39.980 make us fund it and then if we change their revenue model I'm sure we'd quite quickly see

00:41:44.700 them change their programming attitudes as well but if you look at most broadcasters you've just

00:41:49.260 given an example yourself I mean Channel 4 which is partly funded you've got ITV which is you know

00:41:53.940 which is funded through advertising you said it's woke Netflix is I mean woke as hell so is um

00:41:59.740 Amazon you know if we defund it is that really going to solve anything yeah but they're competing

00:42:07.520 with each other aren't they and i think we need to diversify that talent pool so i don't think

00:42:12.820 it's that the bbc is institutionally woke i don't think they have a organized system of

00:42:18.100 wokeness they just tend to employ people who think like themselves yeah that's the problem

00:42:22.420 we need to somehow diversify that and we need to hit them where it hurts in order to wake them up

00:42:27.340 to let them know that that's an issue like you say young people aren't watching the bbc they're

00:42:30.640 tuning into netflix or they're on youtube or they're watching tiktok or snapchat these days

00:42:35.200 and so they're chasing an audience that doesn't exist elderly people tend to watch the BBC and

00:42:41.700 now they're turning off because none of the content applies to them it's not appropriate

00:42:44.660 it doesn't represent them I mean the inefficiency of the BBC I go on the BBC frequently I'm sure

00:42:50.240 you do as well I've done work for the BBC you don't no but my experience there is it's full

00:42:57.320 of well-meaning people who just they have a certain mindset and they just think oh we'll

00:43:03.300 get Constantine in because he's a weirdo who has the wrong opinion. And we need one of him

00:43:07.980 for every 200 people who think like us. So every now and again, they'll reject someone with a

00:43:13.580 different opinion. But broadly speaking, they're sort of just like, it's that diversity thing that

00:43:19.100 they love to bang on about. They just, they have a mindset and they want other people who think

00:43:23.600 like them. So it's not some kind of evil cabal like people try and make it out to be, but the

00:43:30.160 incentives aren't there and the financial part of it as well is sort of worrying because you're

00:43:34.400 charging taxpayers and that money then becomes completely differently treated because I've been

00:43:39.360 involved on things on the BBC and you're going I'm not sure anyone listened to this right maybe

00:43:45.060 it's because I was on I don't know but or anyone's watched this or anyone's engaged with this and so

00:43:50.800 I'm sure you get a lot of money being wasted and it's taxpayer money and that's that's a concern

00:43:55.700 isn't it absolutely it's a concern the few times I have been on the BBC like you say I've been the

00:44:00.060 odd one out and you have you have like a panel of five people that are completely woke and you have

00:44:04.020 yourself on the corner and they paint you out as an extremist for having normal views that's a

00:44:08.880 problem but yes absolutely the money is the core issue there in that they're wasting it on you know

00:44:13.540 these big well-paid celebrities and they say we have to compete with the private sector it's like

00:44:19.100 do you really because the bbc is a you know it's a global institution it's got a respectable

00:44:24.040 reputation a lot of people want to go work there anyway you don't have to pay these million

00:44:29.220 pound salaries in order to get talent so they're wasting our money on talent they're wasting our

00:44:34.520 money on diversity quota rubbish you know just waste left right and center so if we say to them

00:44:39.740 you have to find a different way of funding yourself uh going forward we're not going to let

00:44:43.740 the public um pay you through a television tax over threat of prosecution you're gonna have to

00:44:48.700 find a new model let's see how that would change things and what would you say about when people

00:44:53.200 go look the the BBC still makes innovative content you know you look at your Attenboroughs

00:45:00.380 as a classic example nobody you did have to pick a 97 year old guy for this example didn't you

00:45:05.740 yeah I mean he's an old white man he has privilege Calvin I realize that but what I mean it's

00:45:13.720 brilliant isn't it who does documentaries like that um Netflix um anyone can do a documentary

00:45:21.360 like that and Anaya who you've had on here has created a good documentary that's coming out this

00:45:25.160 summer lots of people are doing it I don't think you need to be public publicly funded in order to

00:45:29.640 create something unique you know Channel 4 have a remit to create things that are different to

00:45:34.800 the norm as well not that they do that but you know there are lots of different organizations

00:45:38.160 that can address these issues when you say they're creating good innovative content and then again

00:45:43.160 you point to someone who's been at the BBC for a long time if we think about people that are trying

00:45:46.800 to create that kind of content now such as is it country life or country file I don't watch the

00:45:51.140 bbc sorry country far i think it is came out and said you know the countryside is institutionally

00:45:55.880 racist and it's it's a white area um some as a person who's not white i'm thinking okay so that

00:46:01.740 does that mean the countryside isn't for me is the how is the countryside racist towards me i've

00:46:04.960 spent a lot of time in the countryside i find it to be peaceful and quiet um there aren't a lot of

00:46:09.000 people there granted a lot of the people that are there are white but i don't think it's because

00:46:13.380 i'm not welcome there it's just because you know cities tend to be more metropolitan and more

00:46:18.660 people of ethnic minority status tend to live in cities but this is just another example of

00:46:22.280 anything modern anything contemporary trying to do what the bbc used to do has all gone

00:46:27.060 completely woke and it's a shame i agree with you do you think maybe just maybe and this is

00:46:33.020 a hope of mine rather than a belief but it is a hope this woke moment that we're in it's just

00:46:39.300 one of those periods in time in human history where everyone looks back on it 30 40 years later

00:46:45.260 and just goes, oh, suddenly we had people running around

00:46:47.980 saying everyone's a communist

00:46:49.320 or suddenly we had people running around

00:46:51.360 saying everyone's a witch.

00:46:52.760 Or suddenly we decided we need to torture people

00:46:55.420 who don't believe quite the right kind of Christianity.

00:46:58.060 It's just a moment when everybody goes mad for a bit

00:47:01.100 and it's important not to overreact

00:47:05.180 in terms of tearing down institutions

00:47:08.240 like the BBC in response.

00:47:10.660 No.

00:47:11.840 I wish that was the case.

00:47:13.220 I really do.

00:47:13.740 So do I.

00:47:14.120 I think we've got to stand up and fight, and I mean everybody,

00:47:17.240 because they're the ones looking to tear down our institutions.

00:47:20.040 You know, they're literally ripping down statues left, right and centre.

00:47:23.180 You know, we've got the new diversity commission that's been set up in London

00:47:26.220 to look at what to tear down next.

00:47:28.560 How horrible is that?

00:47:29.980 They're not going to be putting up any new statues.

00:47:32.360 They're not going to be honouring anyone else.

00:47:34.320 They're going to be looking at who they can destroy,

00:47:35.980 who they can cancel next because they're not quite working off by today's standards.

00:47:40.240 You know, this idea of looking at historical figures by today's standards

00:47:43.520 is nonsensical because where does that stop in three years four years five years when we look

00:47:47.840 back at people from today are we going to be cancelling them and that's that's like you know

00:47:51.660 the issue with the the school that came up last week where they renamed their houses from Lord

00:47:56.340 Nelson and Sir Walter Raleigh to Marcus Rashford and Greta Thunberg it's like these are people

00:48:01.780 that are still alive still living they could get cancelled tomorrow if they say the wrong thing

00:48:05.540 how are you not forward thinking enough to perceive that you can't keep adjusting your

00:48:09.640 standards in this way it doesn't make any sense I mean obviously Greta Thunberg is a bad choice

00:48:13.500 because she's the queen of truancy.

00:48:15.820 So, you know.

00:48:17.240 You got the dig in.

00:48:19.440 Yeah, this is a former teacher.

00:48:20.860 He's like, I don't care if she's...

00:48:22.940 She just didn't go to school enough.

00:48:25.080 Go to school, kids.

00:48:25.940 Go to school, kids.

00:48:28.820 But look, on the statue thing,

00:48:30.320 let me put a counterpoint to you

00:48:31.920 because I'm interested in your answer more than anything.

00:48:34.580 What is the argument for...

00:48:36.360 I grew up in Bristol.

00:48:37.260 When I came to this country, I lived in Bristol.

00:48:39.920 What is the argument that explains

00:48:42.280 why the descendants of slaves who were taken out of Africa,

00:48:45.620 taken to Jamaica, and then maybe some of them came over here,

00:48:48.780 why should they be walking around looking at a statue of a man

00:48:53.500 who profited from their ancestors being murdered, raped, tortured,

00:48:57.940 enslaved, etc.?

00:48:59.040 What possible reason could we have as a country

00:49:02.700 for continuing to honour that person by having their statue

00:49:06.740 and a living human descendant of slaves having to look at that?

00:49:10.580 Has anyone walked around anywhere and seen a statue and said, oh my god, that offends me, ever?

00:49:16.500 I'm not convinced that actually happens. I'm not convinced that people are offended by statues.

00:49:20.400 I think it's just virtue signaling. They want to show how good they are and how bad these people

00:49:24.660 were historically. If we look far back in our history, you know, if we keep going back in our

00:49:29.660 history, we'll find a flaw with every single person. Nobody was perfect. And throughout history,

00:49:34.800 unfortunately, slavery was a thing. It was a terrible, terrible thing, but it was a thing for

00:49:39.040 a long time. So a lot of people from those periods were involved in some way, in some way or another

00:49:44.440 in slavery, right? But that doesn't mean they didn't start charities. That doesn't mean they

00:49:49.060 didn't build hospitals. That doesn't mean they didn't educate kids. And when we put statues up,

00:49:53.720 we put statues up in honour of their accomplishments and their achievements. We don't put them up in

00:49:57.940 honour of the bad things that they did. You know, Winston Churchill is a great hero of mine because

00:50:01.460 he almost single-handedly prevented fascism on a global scale. You know, we wouldn't have entered

00:50:06.620 Sorry, I think the Russians might have a couple of words to say about that.

00:50:09.420 But we wouldn't have entered the war if it wasn't for him, right?

00:50:11.320 I'm joking. Of course you're right.

00:50:12.480 And we won.

00:50:13.820 And he said and did a lot of horrible things too.

00:50:16.320 But that doesn't negate the fact that he stood up to fascism.

00:50:19.120 And it's the same across the board.

00:50:20.560 We have to look at people holistically.

00:50:22.880 But we do draw the line in some places, right?

00:50:25.160 There are people who objectively did some things that are so bad

00:50:28.860 that no matter how well they made the trains run,

00:50:31.140 it just doesn't offset it, right?

00:50:33.200 So we do draw a line somewhere, don't we?

00:50:35.020 but we only put statues up for people that have you know achievements that we should honor we

00:50:40.480 don't really put statues up for bad people in general do we in the lambatar they have a statue

00:50:44.100 of genghis khan that's that's a good point you got me there but i think what it comes down to

00:50:48.980 for me is that if we look at these things holistically and we don't put them up to

00:50:53.680 venerate them we're not worshiping these people uh they're not saints and even the saints themselves

00:50:58.020 were not perfect people they all had pasts and histories so we need to look at history entirely

00:51:02.880 holistically take on both sides of every argument and then think did this person contribute to our

00:51:07.560 society in a way that's improved it and got us to where we are today if they have great if they

00:51:13.100 haven't there's a conversation to be had about where you go from there but i don't think we

00:51:16.240 should be looking around to say which bad person can we remove next or who who had some remote

00:51:21.960 link to a plantation at some point in their family tree even if it was nothing to do with them it's

00:51:26.520 just bonkers i do agree with you we've gone too far but i still am you know i don't know and i'm

00:51:34.500 the reason i'm asking you these slightly provocative questions is just because i'm

00:51:38.140 trying to work it out in my head i don't know what the justification is because the the guy

00:51:43.300 in bristol colson he he didn't have a remote link to a plantation his business was slavery right

00:51:49.540 so should i i didn't i didn't at all like the way that that was dealt with at the time no

00:51:56.660 accountability no just people come in come along and tear down the statue to me that's wrong that

00:52:01.880 should be done through a proper process but equally i sort of don't i i struggled to make

00:52:08.320 the positive case for having a statue of him erected now yeah so why should it be up now

00:52:14.420 maybe you'd like to start a campaign

00:52:18.400 I don't know

00:52:19.280 but do you see what I'm saying

00:52:20.920 if we wouldn't erect that statue now

00:52:23.520 should it really be up there now?

00:52:26.340 look I think we should handle these decisions

00:52:27.980 democratically

00:52:28.600 that I completely agree with you on

00:52:30.380 so if enough people are offended by something

00:52:33.240 then there should be a consultation period

00:52:34.740 and we should address it appropriately

00:52:36.280 that's how we should handle it

00:52:37.560 as for Bristol

00:52:38.180 they're kings of the woke aren't they

00:52:40.120 they've been saying recently

00:52:41.240 that they want to pay

00:52:42.180 or that the UK should pay reparations to descendants of slavery.

00:52:46.940 I have no idea how that would work

00:52:48.860 because in this system, we don't have government money.

00:52:51.660 We have taxpayer money.

00:52:53.320 Therefore, they're asking taxpayers to pay people who were never slaves

00:52:58.300 money from people who were never slave owners.

00:53:01.940 And that would mean people like me,

00:53:04.940 my money would be going to pay other brown people.

00:53:07.180 How does that make sense?

00:53:07.940 Poor brown people would be paying rich brown people.

00:53:10.520 It's absolutely insane.

00:53:12.180 Your mum would have to pay your dad, which I'm sure she wouldn't be happy about, mate.

00:53:15.340 But that's the thing. My dad would be paying his dad, too, in this system.

00:53:19.340 It doesn't make any sense. I don't think reparations are a logical thing to do.

00:53:23.840 But I think also, you know, like I said, we do have to acknowledge our history holistically,

00:53:27.720 which does mean saying that, you know, slavery was bad and we had a hand to play in that.

00:53:31.480 But it also means that we also pretty much abolished slavery on a global scale.

00:53:35.880 It was the Slavery Abolition Act, and it was our Navy that put slavery to an end.

00:53:40.760 And so we should celebrate our successes as much as we look towards the negatives.

00:53:45.060 So what we've seen so far is we've seen, you know, the woke movement spread.

00:53:49.420 It's got its tentacles everywhere.

00:53:51.000 Critical race theory has now infiltrated into schools.

00:53:56.080 Have we gone too far and is there any way of rowing back?

00:53:59.380 We've completely gone too far.

00:54:01.200 And there is a way of rowing back because thankfully, the everyman, the normal person,

00:54:06.280 still holds British values,

00:54:08.820 traditional, what I would call Christian values.

00:54:11.420 And all we need is for them to stand up

00:54:13.380 and say, I've had enough.

00:54:15.040 It's the vocal minority that are the woke mob

00:54:18.380 and they are getting their way

00:54:19.640 because they shout the loudest

00:54:20.800 and they scream the loudest.

00:54:21.700 What we need is for normal people to stand up

00:54:23.200 and say, I've had enough of this now.

00:54:24.920 And one way I think we should start doing that

00:54:27.320 is just taking ownership of our opinions

00:54:29.160 and not being afraid of being cancelled.

00:54:30.640 And I know that's a difficult thing.

00:54:32.260 It's easy for someone like me to say,

00:54:34.680 but I think if people at home,

00:54:35.740 you know change your avatars on twitter to your face put your job title if you're a plumber a

00:54:40.100 builder whatever own it be who you are and don't be afraid of them cancelling you because the more

00:54:44.880 people that do that they can't cancel all of us and they need to see that we are real people and

00:54:49.240 these are normal opinions that we hold we're not extremists for thinking there are two genders and

00:54:54.180 that i'm not impressed because of the color of my skin we are just normal british people with

00:54:58.340 normal british opinions and we all need we all need to stick our heads above the parapet until

00:55:02.040 we reach a point that that's no longer a thing and we are you know our opinions become taken for

00:55:06.280 granted again as the normality and the woke mob kind of go back into their caves and and shout

00:55:11.860 at each other and cancel each other out do you think that's going to happen that's what i pray

00:55:16.880 for that's what i work for that's what that's what i think you know that's what this is isn't it yeah

00:55:20.560 it is but do you think that's going to happen i mean you you're sort of interrogating him about

00:55:24.980 it but think about our show and you know we've had to take a lot of flack for starting trigonometry

00:55:29.780 and the bigger it gets, the more flack we take.

00:55:32.100 But think how many comedians watch trigonometry secretly.

00:55:36.580 It's quite a lot.

00:55:37.760 Yeah.

00:55:38.060 You know, and so the same with you, with what you're doing.

00:55:40.820 There's a lot of people who just watch from the sidelines

00:55:42.900 and they don't want to necessarily get stuck in.

00:55:44.520 But it's tough advice, man,

00:55:46.540 because you're asking people to put their lives on the line.

00:55:49.040 Absolutely.

00:55:49.480 And it's hard for a lot.

00:55:50.540 And not everybody, you know, for us, thankfully,

00:55:52.780 because we're creating something that's of value to other people,

00:55:55.500 there's an upside to it and we can actually have a career.

00:55:58.460 you know after some of the interviews we're putting them out in the next couple of weeks

00:56:02.480 uh there's no comedy career left but uh but there is another career but for you know you're talking

00:56:08.100 about a plumber you're asking people to put their livelihood on the line that's tough that's really

00:56:13.720 really tough but on the other hand I also think I completely agree with you man like until enough

00:56:20.060 people start to to put something on the line um it's not going to change and you know we had

00:56:26.080 brett weinstein a while ago talking about this and i was saying to him well what you know you're

00:56:29.980 an evolutionary biologist brett what's the rationale for someone to risk their life for this weird

00:56:35.060 thing and he sort of said well the reason you're risking it is not for for the greater good you're

00:56:39.920 risking it because your future is going to be very badly affected unless this takes a different

00:56:45.740 direction is that the sort of thing that you think about well i think it's both isn't it i think we

00:56:49.340 have to get back to what i talked about earlier service and duty towards each other and we have

00:56:54.320 to that's a reason to stand up not just because of our own futures but to conserve this country and

00:56:59.060 it's it's legacy and everything that we've built here we don't want to see it destroyed by the

00:57:03.600 neo-moxists who want to break it down and rebuild it in their image see the reason i was grilling

00:57:09.020 you calvin is because i think we're fucked i think there's a tinderbox right yeah it's a very

00:57:15.240 stressful time right now and the only parallel i can think of is brexit so people were feeling

00:57:20.760 you know disenfranchised and forgotten and left behind and they spoke at the ballot box which is

00:57:25.380 what we do we're very subtle here we don't revolt in england do we um so we spoke at the ballot box

00:57:30.940 and said enough is enough uh we want to leave the european union and we don't think that westminster

00:57:34.920 is listening to us and we elected a load of brexit party meps for example and i think we could see

00:57:40.660 something similar happen again around the culture wars around all of these issues that we've talked

00:57:45.640 about wokery and and free speech and all of the stuff that we're concerned about but most normal

00:57:50.600 people are too on some level yeah oh of course they are well I was going to ask you there's a

00:57:54.980 funny thing that's happening now and I've been observing it for a while with uh with arguments

00:57:59.580 about the culture war it sort of works a little bit like this like someone on the woke side of

00:58:04.060 things will make a crazy argument like you know there's a thousand and three hundred and forty

00:58:11.200 seven genders and you go well actually I don't think so and they go stop weaponizing the culture

00:58:16.860 war to attack Trump. Like, there's a sort of brainwashing thing where people are now starting

00:58:22.660 to claim that the culture war is something that is happening to them. Why do you think that is?

00:58:28.980 Well, they're reframing the argument, aren't they? It's like, you know, the anti-racists call

00:58:32.520 themselves anti-racists because it's a good cover. And that enables them to push their

00:58:37.880 neo-Marxist agenda forward, enables them to be racist to people like me, because nobody wants

00:58:42.580 to fight against someone who's called an anti-racist because that, by default, makes you racist. And

00:58:46.540 And all that is, it's reframing their argument.

00:58:49.080 It's the same with all of this workery.

00:58:50.580 Black Lives Matter, they were going out there,

00:58:53.260 you know, in America, they were burning down cities.

00:58:55.980 Over here, they were, you know,

00:58:57.080 causing quite a disturbance, a lot of violence.

00:59:00.100 But their argument, Black Lives Matter,

00:59:02.240 is something that you don't want to argue against that, do you?

00:59:03.880 Of course, Black Lives Matter.

00:59:05.060 Who would differ with that opinion?

00:59:06.920 But that's what they do very well.

00:59:08.620 They frame the debate in a way

00:59:09.800 that makes them look like the good guys,

00:59:11.560 even if they're doing something bad,

00:59:12.840 because nobody wants to attack the good guys.

00:59:14.800 well at trigonometry we've always been against kicking puppies that's our label therefore

00:59:20.720 anything else you say about us is completely wrong calvin great to have you on the show man

00:59:24.840 thanks for coming on appreciate you playing with us and challenging you a little bit and asking some

00:59:29.940 provocative questions it's been a good conversation we've got one more question for you which is

00:59:33.960 always what's the one thing we're not talking about but we really should be this is going to

00:59:38.220 be a controversial one i don't know if i should really say it but we're not talking about the

00:59:41.320 great reset we're not talking about build back better this hashtag that's taken over the world

00:59:45.420 and I'm not a conspiracy theorist but there is something going on here I don't want to leave

00:59:50.480 this horrible pandemic this horrible lockdown a different country I want the old normal I don't

00:59:57.020 want a new normal you know I don't want to come out of this in a cashless society and I'm very

01:00:02.640 worried about all the things that I'm hearing from our government about hashtag build back better

01:00:07.480 i'd like us to return if we want a better society we can work on it together we don't want it

01:00:11.620 implemented for us or on us that is oppression that is tyranny all right well in for a penny

01:00:17.320 in for a pound since you brought it up i mean i think the monetization went when you said house

01:00:22.760 negro about 73 times in a row but just when you said it then as well yeah uh but since you bring

01:00:28.820 it up look i don't know what the great reset is someone sent me the link to the world economic

01:00:34.020 forum i looked on it it just looks like a bunch of people who are like oh we want to end capitalism

01:00:39.780 or whatever which is fine people are allowed to want to end capitalism i don't agree with it

01:00:43.740 right but when you talk about the great reset what are you talking about look at the way he's

01:00:49.020 got his hand over his mouth this is i'm not a conspiracy theory but 5g and lizard people

01:00:55.840 lizard people yeah there's this idea that you will own nothing and you'll be happy that really

01:01:00.320 disturbs me and it's not even against capitalism it's a new form of capitalism it's this idea that

01:01:05.140 so we're seeing it already for example I went to my bank to pay in a check the other day right

01:01:08.900 and it's so difficult to do that I tried to queue up for the cashier there's only one there

01:01:13.580 they encourage you to go use the machines I'm a computer scientist I'm not a Luddite but

01:01:17.540 I don't like everything being automated because we're losing what we're actually seeing is the

01:01:22.060 erasure of the working class so normal jobs that normal people would do are now being automated

01:01:26.560 but that doesn't stop the wealthy still earning money so what we're seeing is the cost divide is

01:01:33.060 widening people who are already rich and successful and powerful will remain so but the normal ordinary

01:01:37.540 folk who did normal ordinary jobs their jobs won't exist very soon and we're seeing covid being used

01:01:42.340 as a cover to speed up the process we you know for example the 45 pound cash limit on contactless

01:01:47.860 payments being increased to 100 pound to increase um to improve the economy how does that improve

01:01:52.540 the economy but is that not quite a conspiratorial thing to say because you say used as a cover

01:01:58.140 it's perfectly credible in my view to say not used as a cover but it's like if we're paying for if

01:02:03.960 we're trying to reduce the number of physical contacts where people can spread disease

01:02:07.580 doing things contactless sort of makes sense just as a counter argument that would be one of the

01:02:12.380 things right the other thing you talk about the the you know erasure of the working glass i get

01:02:17.360 that completely but it's been already happening it's pretty much if you listen to andrew yang

01:02:21.240 why Donald Trump got elected, right?

01:02:22.960 Automation is taking over people's jobs.

01:02:24.920 Is that really like people are using COVID nefariously

01:02:28.900 or is it just like what's happening?

01:02:30.620 It's not nefariously,

01:02:31.420 but they're using it to speed up the process.

01:02:33.540 So why would you open your branches

01:02:35.180 if it costs you X amount to employ so many people

01:02:37.280 when you can just have a machine

01:02:38.620 that you put your check into

01:02:39.640 and you save yourself a lot of money.

01:02:41.720 So people are using COVID now.

01:02:43.480 When we come out of it,

01:02:44.860 we won't have the same society

01:02:46.320 that we went into it with.

01:02:47.340 That's the problem.

01:02:48.500 And I'm really not conspiratorial,

01:02:50.820 But the problem I have with the World Economic Forum and this great reset is that it's all there in the open.

01:02:56.420 And it is, you know, the Davos conference that all the world leaders go to, all the most rich and powerful people in the world go to.

01:03:03.100 And they're not conspiring behind our backs, but they're talking about this very openly, this idea that they want to change society, they want to improve it.

01:03:09.200 But it's in their image. It's not democratic. We're not having a discussion about this. It's being put on us.

01:03:14.240 And that's what scares me. That's what worries me.

01:03:16.260 and even raising the issue makes you look like a tinfoil hat wearing you know swivel-eyed loon

01:03:20.940 which i am but not because of this i'll be honest with you i do think they're using it as a way to

01:03:26.420 get rid of cash and i don't buy the whole oh less contact well you've just got one central disease

01:03:32.360 vector which is a chip and pin yeah but who benefits from us having less cash well the

01:03:38.080 government because they can track you know because they can track us more effectively

01:03:41.100 and number two it's it's a way to control working class people who pay using cash indeed but also

01:03:47.920 what i worry about in the long run is you know systems like what they have in china if you do

01:03:52.520 or say the wrong thing your show your social credit is destroyed we say no nothing like that

01:03:56.480 would ever happen in this country but talk to me a year ago this time a year ago i never would have

01:04:00.300 thought we'd lock down citizens in their homes and tell them who they're allowed to invite into

01:04:03.940 their own house i would have thought that would be a completely foreign idea so you never know

01:04:08.420 where we're going to be in a year's time,

01:04:10.180 never mind 10 years' time.

01:04:11.920 That's what petrifies me about this whole thing.

01:04:14.020 And just to say, with our overloads at YouTube,

01:04:16.380 we love you.

01:04:17.300 Everything you do is brilliant.

01:04:19.460 And we won't talk about any of the things

01:04:21.380 that you don't like to be talked about.

01:04:22.620 Exactly.

01:04:23.080 And we pray to Xi Jinping every night.

01:04:25.400 Absolutely.

01:04:26.080 So thank you for watching our final video on YouTube.

01:04:28.400 It's been an absolute pleasure.

01:04:29.960 Calvin Robinson, thanks for coming on.

01:04:32.020 Where can people follow you and find out what you do?

01:04:34.640 At the moment, I'm on Twitter at Calvin Robinson.

01:04:36.840 But if Big Tech cancels me,

01:04:38.160 I'm also on Telegram

01:04:39.260 Common Sense Calvin

01:04:40.820 just

01:04:42.360 I don't know

01:04:42.860 read the Telegraph

01:04:43.440 or the Daily Mail

01:04:43.940 pick up an old fashioned paper

01:04:45.880 don't stick to online

01:04:46.900 because big tech

01:04:47.600 are controlling our lives

01:04:48.920 he says on YouTube

01:04:50.320 Calvin thanks for coming on mate

01:04:52.380 and thank you guys

01:04:53.200 for watching

01:04:53.700 we will see you very soon

01:04:55.140 with another episode

01:04:56.020 like this one

01:04:56.780 or a live stream

01:04:58.060 or maybe not

01:04:58.860 after this conversation

01:04:59.820 who knows

01:05:00.360 but if they do go out

01:05:01.960 it's 7pm UK time

01:05:03.520 take care

01:05:04.440 and see you in the gulag guys

01:05:05.960 We'll be right back.

TRIGGERnometry - March 17, 2021

＂I'm Controversial Because I Say Things a White Man Can't＂ - Calvin Robinson

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