TRIGGERnometry - I Spent Years on Skid Row, Homeless & Addicted - Jared Klickstein

00:00:00.840 At one point in your life, you woke up in a bathtub and realized that you were missing your big toe and your bottom lip.

00:00:08.820 Can you describe Skid Row for people who have never been there?

00:00:12.000 Incredibly scary, incredibly violent. You know, you'd walk by, you'd see pools of blood sometimes, dead bodies occasionally.

00:00:18.860 So it was really easy for me to stay sober in jail, but once I got out of jail, you know, they sort of just let you out at 2 o'clock in the morning right next to Skid Row.

00:00:25.580 So eventually I pulled out a knife. I sort of lunged at him with a knife. So I got arrested for assault with a deadly weapon and went to jail and was going to go to prison for a year and a half.

00:00:34.980 Addicts will take the path of least resistance. The state currently in places like California are doing everything in their power to make it as easy as possible to keep getting high.

00:00:45.520 Jared, you've got what is possibly the craziest life story of anyone we have ever had on the show. You lived on Skid Row for years.

00:00:53.320 And your autobiography, which is great, is called Crooked Smile. And the reason it's called Crooked Smile is at one point in your life, you woke up in a bathtub and realized that you were missing your big toe and your bottom lip, which you then had to have reattached as part of like student training.

00:01:11.020 Yes. Yes.

00:01:12.420 How does that happen? How do you get to that point in your life? Tell us that.

00:01:17.320 Well, first of all, I just want to say thank you for having me on. I'm honored. I'm honored to be here.

00:01:21.940 How do you get to that point in your life? I mean, it's really like unadulterated addiction, you know, allowed to just kind of sprawl out and do whatever it wants for 10 years.

00:01:31.300 I mean, nothing was really stopping me. And the logical end point of that is death.

00:01:36.360 But if you're lucky enough to live, you might lose a body part. And I lost part of my face from, you know, doing copious amounts of methamphetamine and heroin and crack cocaine.

00:01:48.160 And to my surprise, after waking up, I had done it to myself. Actually, I had munched a bit on it, I guess.

00:01:55.800 And it was most of it was gone. Wow. Yeah. And tell us your life story, because when I say how do you get there, I imagine all of that shit starts in childhood, right?

00:02:05.380 I'd imagine so. I mean, I grew up in Boston, Massachusetts. Both my parents were heroin addicts. 0.98

00:02:12.040 Pretty stable childhood, but still there was the addiction in the household. There was, you know, I got to see a lot of terrible things, you know, no food in the refrigerator sometimes, you know, things like that.

00:02:22.880 But I do think that contributed to the fact that I became a drug addict, possibly genetic as well. Both my parents are heroin addicts. I think it's a bit of both.

00:02:33.560 Yeah. So you grew up in a household where, but were your parents using before you were born as well?

00:02:39.840 My dad became addicted to heroin when he was about 12. You know, the Vietnam vets were coming back to America. A lot of them that my dad knew were addicted to heroin.

00:02:50.420 They would pay him in heroin to do, you know, different tasks and things like that when he was a kid.

00:02:55.580 So both my parents had a history of heroin use, but actually cleaned up before I was born and then got back into it when I was about three or four.

00:03:04.060 Yeah. I mean, that I can only imagine how difficult that must have been, because for a child, there is nothing more terrifying than seeing your parents.

00:03:19.080 I can't think of the word for it, but basically out of it on a drug, whether it's alcohol or heroin or something like that. It's it's incredibly traumatizing.

00:03:27.980 Yeah, it was traumatizing. I didn't really understand what was happening. Some of it was fun. I mean, my parents would, you know, act, you know, they would act erratic and then maybe wake me up at two o'clock in the morning and take me to get pancakes and things like that.

00:03:41.080 You know, there was those fun times. And then there was, you know, other times there was guns in the house. There was a lot of paranoia.

00:03:46.840 There was a lot of waking me up and handing me a gun and telling me to cover them because the CIA was like outside, you know, doing a perimeter check on my dad for some reason.

00:03:55.840 And, you know, of course, that didn't actually that that wasn't happening. But but that was like my version of catch, like playing catch with my dad was like doing a perimeter check around the house with a gun.

00:04:06.240 And, you know, so there's that kind of stuff. But then there's also the, you know, the parents going to jail, the parents, you know, falling asleep while driving, you know, things like that.

00:04:16.040 And, yeah, it was generally pretty traumatic.

00:04:19.060 So when did your journey with drugs start? Because there's a lot of people I know who when they see their parents do that, they go, I'm never touching any of that.

00:04:28.500 And then there seems to be the other camp, which is I'm going to do drugs just to cope.

00:04:32.880 Yeah. Yeah. That is interesting how that happens. I definitely had an aversion to heroin specifically.

00:04:40.860 I didn't really ever plan on messing with heroin, but I really liked alcohol in high school and marijuana and, you know, was it was like an alcoholic basically as a teenager.

00:04:50.720 And when I got to college, I went to college at UC Santa Cruz. Everyone was doing heroin.

00:04:55.800 And I was like the last of my friends to try college.

00:04:58.620 Yeah. Yeah. In college, 2007, UC Santa Cruz, everyone was smoking heroin.

00:05:04.740 Really? Yeah. Yeah.

00:05:06.420 All right. Don't send your kids to college.

00:05:08.440 Well, specifically, UC Santa Cruz.

00:05:11.060 Well, you know, and that's a good college.

00:05:13.560 Well, I think it's, you know, a loser factory, but but yeah, but no, but but it is ranked well.

00:05:18.440 And I think I was in the art dorm and I really think it was specific to my dorm.

00:05:22.840 So I don't want to, you know, obviously college is probably a bad place to go, but but I don't think everyone's doing heroin at every single college.

00:05:29.760 But but I was in the art dorm of a very artsy college where people were experimenting with drugs and and I experimented with drugs.

00:05:36.480 But I was actually the one that was saying, hey, let's you know, you probably shouldn't smoke heroin.

00:05:41.500 But but Oxycontin was around and I and I had no idea what that was.

00:05:46.240 And I didn't know that it was an it's an opioid.

00:05:49.620 I didn't know. So I started messing around with Oxycontin.

00:05:53.020 And, you know, after some.

00:05:54.360 Can I just pause you there? Because there's going to be people listening who don't know what that is.

00:05:58.320 Can you just explain what Oxycontin is?

00:06:00.520 Yeah. Oxycontin is a brand name for oxycodone.

00:06:03.580 It is a semi-synthetic opioid.

00:06:06.240 It is essentially heroin.

00:06:08.580 I mean, heroin is dicetylmorphine.

00:06:10.360 That's a fully natural opiate, whereas oxycodone is a semi-synthetic.

00:06:17.080 It still requires raw plant material, but it's it's it's more refined and actually through years of, you know, research, I guess, personal and just general research that people have done.

00:06:27.640 It's it's it can be more physically addicting than heroin.

00:06:31.080 And can I ask another question not to sidetrack this?

00:06:34.040 But one thing we kind of skipped over is you grew up in a home where people are taking hard drugs, getting arrested, go, you know, giving guns, all of that crazy stuff you talked about.

00:06:44.400 How did you even get to college?

00:06:45.820 Yeah, that's a good question.

00:06:48.540 When I was 12, I essentially told on my parents, I told my distant relatives, I said, you know, I don't know what's really going on.

00:06:57.820 I thought my parents were doing, you know, smoking marijuana or something like that.

00:07:02.180 I didn't really know what drugs were, but when I sort of found some needles and things like that, I realized it was hard drugs.

00:07:08.080 And I called my extended family and I was actually adopted by my extended family in Oakland, California.

00:07:14.780 So from 12 to 18, I had a very normal childhood and prepared me for college.

00:07:21.320 So you're in college, you're experimenting with oxycodone.

00:07:25.140 What happened there then?

00:07:26.920 Well, I got wildly addicted immediately.

00:07:28.640 I mean, it was like the greatest feeling I'd ever felt it allowed, you know, I was very ashamed of who I was, you know, growing up, you know, essentially thinking of myself as a crack baby and sort of the, you know, the offspring of undesirables, you know, in my head and was ashamed about who I was.

00:07:45.040 And Oxycontin fixed that, you know, I could, you know, alcohol fixed that to some extent, but Oxycontin didn't have a hangover and it was just so much more easy.

00:07:53.760 And it just really got to the point and it fully enveloped my entire life within, you know, a month or two probably.

00:08:00.920 And I did some Googling and I found out that Oxycontin is actually pretty close to heroin.

00:08:05.260 And once I was wildly addicted to Oxycontin, I realized that, well, you know, I might as well just do heroin.

00:08:09.700 It's a lot cheaper.

00:08:10.700 It's actually a lot easier to get to.

00:08:12.740 It was, it was a lot easier to get at that point because it's, you know, it's not a controlled substance.

00:08:19.000 It was just kind of on the street.

00:08:20.240 You could get it, you know, the dealers were taking the bus up to the campus and selling it to kids.

00:08:23.800 And it was just super easy to get and super cheap.

00:08:27.060 I find that horrific.

00:08:28.820 The fact that dealers were on campus dealing heroin.

00:08:32.980 Yeah.

00:08:33.640 You know, this is a drug which has destroyed hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives over the years.

00:08:40.460 Yeah.

00:08:40.680 And did the university, did the college do anything to try and stem the tide or arrest these dealers, et cetera?

00:08:49.660 Not, not really.

00:08:50.860 I mean, it wasn't campus wide.

00:08:52.440 It was specifically my dorm.

00:08:54.320 It was a very large campus.

00:08:55.680 I did eventually go to a campus therapist and told them I was a heroin addict.

00:09:01.180 And, you know, they prescribed me benzodiazepines, which, you know, I'm not a doctor, but that's, that, that's pretty dangerous to prescribe benzodiazepines to someone actively using heroin.

00:09:12.820 I told my professors, they essentially gave me longer times to complete papers and stuff.

00:09:19.240 So they gave me like a, a break scholastically, but they, no one really did anything.

00:09:24.240 Not that it's really their place to do anything, but they certainly didn't, you know, they didn't do anything.

00:09:28.200 Yeah.

00:09:28.700 And so then what happens?

00:09:31.080 Do you graduate?

00:09:32.180 Do you leave college?

00:09:33.400 What goes on then?

00:09:35.080 Well, by senior year, I'm wildly addicted to heroin.

00:09:38.180 I can't really afford it.

00:09:39.500 You know, I'm like committing small crimes to get it.

00:09:42.040 Not really going to class anymore.

00:09:43.440 Definitely on the path to, uh, getting kicked out or dropping out.

00:09:48.000 Um, I eventually get a deal with the drug dealers who were cartel affiliated.

00:09:51.700 They, they gave me a job and they, uh, I, I started driving, uh, heroin around, uh, Santa Cruz and delivering it.

00:09:58.720 And, um, a requirement of this job was to, uh, smoke meth before every shift.

00:10:03.800 So I wouldn't crash while I was driving because they, which is actually pretty smart, I guess, because, you know, heroin addicts crash cars because they fall asleep.

00:10:11.640 So, um, as a result of that, I got really addicted to meth and, uh, immediately dropped out of college and, and, and, uh, got kicked out of my housing and, and my family didn't want to talk to me.

00:10:23.500 They, they knew I was on meth and, um, my family sort of let me go.

00:10:27.320 And, uh, from, you know, within a matter of months, I was homeless on Skid Row.

00:10:31.900 And, uh, you mentioned committing small crimes and you mentioned your family letting you go.

00:10:37.720 Was that something they were like, we just can't cope with someone who's an addict?

00:10:41.200 Or had you done things by this point that they kind of like, they didn't know what to do?

00:10:46.460 Maybe because you talk a lot about this, someone who's that addicted, they will do literally anything, right?

00:10:52.720 Yeah.

00:10:52.960 Yeah.

00:10:53.260 So tell us not to like get all kind of, you know, uh, addict porn into it, but what, what kind of crimes were you committing and what is the nature of an addict's relationship with the people around and their family and so on?

00:11:04.280 Yeah.

00:11:05.020 Um, the kinds of crimes that I was committing was petty theft, you know, stealing textbooks from campus and then selling them and maybe stealing things from CVS sometimes.

00:11:14.660 That was on heroin.

00:11:16.000 Um, when my family found out about my drug addiction, they had sort of spent the last decade dealing with my parents in and out of rehabs.

00:11:23.500 You know, my mom ended up passing away.

00:11:24.880 Like they, they went through hell with my parents.

00:11:26.580 So I think I don't blame them.

00:11:27.720 They just said, you know, we can't do 10 years of this with you.

00:11:30.700 We just did 10 years of this with your parents.

00:11:32.340 So they just kind of took a step back and they said, you know, give us a call when, you know, when you're really ready.

00:11:37.520 Um, and, uh, now once I started doing meth, meth is very sadistic.

00:11:41.920 It's, it's much different than heroin.

00:11:43.200 You start really doing crimes.

00:11:45.280 I mean, you really, it's like almost part of the addiction.

00:11:48.620 I mean, I started breaking into houses.

00:11:50.040 I started climbing into windows.

00:11:51.880 I started doing some dark, darker things, you know, and, um, I don't know why meth, uh, entices people to do much darker crimes, but, um, it, it seems to always happen.

00:12:04.900 Right. And you, you must have some pretty wild stories to tell about those days.

00:12:11.600 Like I imagine breaking into houses in America is not the safest thing to do.

00:12:16.120 Well, it's pretty safe in California.

00:12:17.980 I wouldn't, I wouldn't break into a house in Texas, but, uh, California, I mean, this was back then.

00:12:24.140 Now it's basically legal to, I mean, you know, you're not going to go to prison if you break into a house in Oakland, California.

00:12:30.380 Right.

00:12:30.640 Um, so I'd say it's a lot easier now, but, uh, and in fact,

00:12:34.740 if someone were to shoot you in Oakland because you broke into their house, that they would go to prison and you probably, you know, get probation or something in a settlement of cash.

00:12:44.660 Uh, but, but anyway, um,

00:12:46.500 Yeah. I want to make clear to people as well.

00:12:48.800 We're going to talk about policy and homelessness and all of that, but we're just trying to get your story first.

00:12:53.920 So these were the olden days when there was, when there was punishment for crime, there was some amount of punishment for crime.

00:12:59.000 Um, I was breaking into houses with other meth addicts and, um, was sort of an apprentice, like tagging along.

00:13:05.620 And, and I didn't really know the law. I didn't know that it was even that big of a crime.

00:13:10.120 Uh, they told me that you can go to prison for like 20 years for doing it. Uh, so I stopped doing it actually.

00:13:15.380 Mm-hmm.

00:13:15.680 I didn't know that. So when I found that out, I was, I stopped breaking into houses. I could make money other ways. I mean, it was very, um, you know, when I landed on Skid Row, I, I, I made a lot of money.

00:13:26.940 You know, I, I made, eventually I started making more money than I'm, you know, I've, I've just in my life at 36 hit a financial point where I'm making as much money as I did when I was homeless on Skid Row.

00:13:38.020 Pretty. How were you, how were you, what, how were you making money?

00:13:41.280 Well, the first time I was on Skid Row, I was just begging for change at the train station. I'd make like $80 a day and, and, um, which is pretty good. But, uh, later on, once, uh, prop 47, sorry to get into policy, but basically once shoplifting is legalized, I was making, you know, three to $500 a day in cash, uh, shoplifting, which, uh, yeah, it's a lot of money.

00:14:02.620 Three to $500 a day. So that's, that's insane.

00:14:06.660 Our producers are looking around going, we're in the wrong job, mate.

00:14:08.940 Yeah. So that's around about what, two and a half thousand dollars minimum. That's your base rate.

00:14:16.280 Yeah. I think, you know, I made six figures probably, uh, untaxed, um, and usually went to sleep with $0.

00:14:24.360 Cause you'd spend it all on drugs.

00:14:25.740 Yeah. Spend it all on drugs. And, and now that game has changed a lot. Now, obviously shoplifting is illegalized. I will just, you know, I know that's not the correct word, but it's essentially legalized.

00:14:36.300 It's decriminalized.

00:14:37.100 It's decriminalized. And, and, um, with that, now there's a lot more people doing it and there's a lot less things to steal.

00:14:42.660 So I don't think people are making three to $500 a day, but I really caught it at the golden, the golden age.

00:14:47.880 You were at the gold rush.

00:14:49.020 Yeah. I, yeah, exactly.

00:14:50.580 Wow.

00:14:51.140 It's 1849, you know, and I was, you know, I was there and the gold was there and, and, um, and, you know, I don't want to sound braggadocious about it.

00:14:58.920 I'm not like proud of this stuff, but, um, there was a code, you know, you know, we didn't attack anybody and, you know, we weren't, you know, we, there was some secrecy to it.

00:15:07.940 You had to have some skill. You had to really act covertly.

00:15:10.840 And, you know, there was, there was some pride in it at that point. Now it's really just run in and grab everything and leave.

00:15:18.300 Um, but yeah, that was by 2014, 15, I was making with my partner about three to $500 a day.

00:15:24.760 And that was all going on drugs.

00:15:27.920 Yeah. Primarily heroin, but, um, crack cocaine, methamphetamine. Yeah.

00:15:34.640 Can you describe Skid Row for people who have never been there? What, what is it?

00:15:38.520 Yeah, sure. Um, well, it's different now, but I'd say, you know, I landed there in 2011 for the first time and, and, um, it seemed like there was thousands of people just, you know, out and about, uh, really in a zombie stage.

00:15:52.100 Uh, you know, a lot of them really not, I wouldn't call them conscious. I mean, a lot of them just on methamphetamine and sort of in a different realm, uh, a lot of screaming, a lot of, uh, you know, mental illness shrieking into the, into the, you know, atmosphere and all that.

00:16:07.600 And incredibly scary, uh, incredibly violent, blood, blood on the sidewalk. You know, you'd walk by, you see pools of blood sometimes, dead, dead bodies occasionally, um, mostly from overdoses.

00:16:19.840 And, um, you know, I didn't, I had just gotten out of college. I'm 36 now and I look pretty young. I mean, I looked like a child and, um, you know, a lot of people didn't, didn't look like me.

00:16:30.740 You know, I, I was, you know, the racially, it was, it was primarily, uh, African-American, some Hispanic, uh, not a lot of, uh, white people.

00:16:40.100 Um, so when I showed up, they assumed I was like some rich kid that got addicted to heroin and was just down there to score drugs.

00:16:47.800 And, you know, people messed with me and all that. But once they realized I lived there, uh, they, they respected me and, and I was treated pretty well.

00:16:55.480 So what you're describing is a community.

00:16:59.000 Well, kind of. Yeah. I mean, everything is based on, you know, can you help me? If you can help me, you're protected in some way.

00:17:05.280 If I can get something from you, you're protected. No, one's like selflessly acting out and helping anybody, you know, it's all everything.

00:17:12.640 It's a very, it's a free market of, you know, getting over on one another, or, or at least I'll help you as long as you are useful to me in some capacity.

00:17:21.380 So what percentage of the people there, Jared, do you think were, had severely meant, were severely mentally ill, as in they were unable to cope?

00:17:30.460 How many people could, do you think could be helped?

00:17:33.440 And because there's also this narrative, and I would like you to talk about this as well.

00:17:38.140 People like, well, it's a choice people make, you know, people choose to live like that.

00:17:41.620 They don't want to, they don't want to live in the real world.

00:17:43.980 They don't want a proper job. They just want to hang out, score drugs, smoke, shoot up and abdicate adult responsibility for want of a better term.

00:17:52.900 I'd say, now Skid Row specifically, I'd say, now I never met someone down there that like lost a job and ended up on Skid Row.

00:18:02.460 That's not to say that people don't lose jobs and find economic hardships and end up homeless.

00:18:06.420 They just don't go to Skid Row.

00:18:07.700 I mean, Skid Row is not for the faint of heart. 0.85

00:18:09.820 You know, it's, you just wouldn't go down there if, unless you are either mentally ill or on drugs.

00:18:15.060 So I'd say close to 100% of people were either mentally ill or addicted to drugs or both.

00:18:20.480 I'd say roughly 25% were probably just purely mentally ill.

00:18:24.640 Now that can be mental illness that resulted from a past addiction to drugs.

00:18:29.920 Or they could just be mentally ill and can't really, you know, they get dropped off there by an ambulance or a police car or something like that.

00:18:36.620 They just ended up there.

00:18:37.360 And then roughly, I don't know, the remainder was on drugs, it seemed.

00:18:43.620 Now, how many of those people are able to be helped?

00:18:47.780 Man, I think a lot of them.

00:18:49.560 I think a lot of them that are just there for purely addiction, those people can be helped.

00:18:53.920 And then a lot of those people that are mentally ill or appear mentally ill, they may not be mentally ill.

00:18:58.560 They may just be on methamphetamine.

00:19:00.040 I mean, I've been known to, you know, cause a scene in a McDonald's dining area. 0.98

00:19:05.200 You know, I've been, I would, I appeared like a crazy mentally ill person.

00:19:09.020 And, but if you take away methamphetamine, I'm a pretty normal person.

00:19:13.460 I'm a pretty normal guy.

00:19:14.460 So a lot of those people, if sort of, you know, if they dried out for a few days, we'd really be able to determine, oh, this person is totally capable of self-sufficiency and leading a life of purpose.

00:19:26.960 It's going to be very difficult to, it would require a lot of money and a lot of policy changes, but I think a good portion of them can be helped.

00:19:33.040 And I was going to say, because Skid Row has expanded hugely over the years.

00:19:39.940 And I was going to, I was going to ask, number one, why do you think that happens?

00:19:43.260 And number two, is it, how much of an influence is fentanyl playing?

00:19:48.300 Because fentanyl was a very new player on the scene, isn't it really?

00:19:51.460 Yeah.

00:19:52.440 I got sober in 2018.

00:19:54.660 Fentanyl was around, but it wasn't really, it didn't really replace heroin yet.

00:20:00.080 Now, heroin's essentially non-existent at this point.

00:20:02.380 It's all fentanyl in terms of opiates.

00:20:05.180 So fentanyl has played a huge role.

00:20:08.900 So fentanyl has changed the game in that it, first of all, it kills a lot more people.

00:20:14.220 So it also makes people a lot more, I mean, heroin, you can, I've held jobs on heroin.

00:20:20.320 You know, I've gone to Thanksgiving dinner on heroin.

00:20:22.580 Like you can sort of function badly, but you can still function partially.

00:20:26.840 There's no, there's no functioning on fentanyl.

00:20:30.560 There's no recreational use of fentanyl.

00:20:32.740 I've used it.

00:20:33.580 I've done it before.

00:20:35.160 It's like you snap your fingers and you are a zombie.

00:20:37.900 You know, you're hunched over.

00:20:39.340 You don't know what your name is.

00:20:41.220 I mean, it's a completely debilitating drug.

00:20:43.880 So why do people do it?

00:20:47.440 Well, I personally didn't like it.

00:20:49.860 It didn't really react well with me.

00:20:51.380 It was not incredibly euphoric for me, although it did give me the physical properties of an

00:20:56.100 opiate, which is, you know, sort of that soothing physical sensation.

00:20:59.280 So I did it because there was no heroin where I was at that time.

00:21:02.940 There was just fentanyl.

00:21:03.700 And if a heroin addict can't get heroin, they will do any opiate.

00:21:07.300 And if fentanyl is the only thing available, they'll do fentanyl.

00:21:09.580 And what we saw around 2019 was essentially the eradication of heroin.

00:21:14.800 And fentanyl just came in full force.

00:21:17.020 And a lot of people got addicted to fentanyl, not even knowing that it was fentanyl.

00:21:21.300 They thought it was still heroin.

00:21:22.540 And everyone sort of transitioned to fentanyl.

00:21:26.180 The news moves fast.

00:21:27.860 And it's not just about keeping up.

00:21:29.460 It's about seeing clearly.

00:21:30.940 In a world where headlines are constantly shifting and narratives change by the hour,

00:21:35.840 understanding how a story is being reported is just as important as what the story is.

00:21:41.100 That's why I use Ground News.

00:21:43.480 It shows you how coverage of any story differs across the political spectrum,

00:21:47.860 helping you break out of echo chambers and actually see the full picture.

00:21:51.740 Take the recent landmark UK Supreme Court ruling on the legal definition of woman.

00:21:56.300 Using Ground News, we can see that CNN, which leans left,

00:21:59.800 ran with UK Supreme Court says legal definition of woman excludes trans women.

00:22:05.220 The Spectator, which leans right, led with the Supreme Court ruling is a victory for women. 1.00

00:22:10.400 Same story, two completely different takes.

00:22:13.080 Ground News makes these contrasts easy to spot by letting you compare headlines at a glance.

00:22:18.300 It also shows you ownership information, like the ownership status of both CNN and The Spectator.

00:22:23.740 My favorite feature is the blind spot feed.

00:22:25.840 It surfaces stories being ignored by either the left or the right.

00:22:29.960 Stories you might not even realize you're missing,

00:22:32.340 so you can stay informed without being trapped in a single worldview.

00:22:36.120 Click the link in the description or head to ground.news slash trigonometry

00:22:39.840 for 40% off their unlimited vantage plan, the same one we use.

00:22:45.040 More than a million people have already downloaded the Ground News app.

00:22:48.240 If you care about seeing every side of the story, join them today.

00:22:51.700 And coming back to this idea of how people end up on Skid Row,

00:22:56.960 you mentioned that you'd never met anyone who lost a job,

00:23:00.200 and then three weeks later they're on Skid Row.

00:23:02.960 So reading between the lines then, you as a college kid,

00:23:06.420 you go there because it's a place where you can get drugs?

00:23:10.240 That's why people go to Skid Row?

00:23:13.020 That's why I went, and that's why a lot of people go.

00:23:16.280 Because back then, if you were in L.A. and you didn't really know what you were doing

00:23:19.860 and you wanted drugs, you went to Skid Row, and it's a free market.

00:23:22.760 I mean, they're just everywhere.

00:23:23.820 So that's why I ended up there.

00:23:25.440 A lot of people end up there for that,

00:23:27.480 and then a lot of people end up there because there's services there.

00:23:29.700 I mean, there are some homeless services there.

00:23:32.380 It's also sort of a safe place to...

00:23:35.520 It's not safe, but you're allowed to sleep there if you're homeless.

00:23:38.740 So a lot of people will voluntarily go down there

00:23:41.000 because back then you couldn't just sleep anywhere.

00:23:44.460 You kind of had to...

00:23:45.360 You got funneled there, really.

00:23:46.540 And then a lot of people get dropped off there.

00:23:49.540 So if you get arrested for some sort of disorderly conduct

00:23:52.660 in Burbank or something and you're on drugs,

00:23:56.040 oftentimes you would just get dropped off on Skid Row.

00:23:59.380 So...

00:23:59.740 But it's really...

00:24:02.240 That's where the carnival is.

00:24:03.320 I mean, if you're in that lifestyle, that's where you're going to go.

00:24:06.420 Wow.

00:24:07.020 Yeah.

00:24:07.320 And do the police come through there?

00:24:09.760 Yeah, the police come through.

00:24:10.980 I don't know if they do anymore,

00:24:12.180 but certainly in my time they'd come through

00:24:14.140 and they'd arrest you every once in a while.

00:24:15.840 You know, they'd have to sort of make their numbers, I guess,

00:24:19.180 and arrest some people.

00:24:20.780 And I mean, I don't blame them.

00:24:22.960 You know, what are you going to do?

00:24:24.000 You know, you got, you know, two to six cops or something

00:24:27.040 driving around Skid Row

00:24:27.940 and you got thousands of people on drugs.

00:24:30.200 You know, you can't just arrest everybody.

00:24:33.100 But they sort of monitor and make sure no one's, you know, getting...

00:24:36.900 You know, if they see violence, they'll stop it.

00:24:38.880 Or if they see someone OD'd, they'll, you know, resuscitate.

00:24:42.980 And then occasionally they'll just make some random arrests

00:24:46.040 that I've been a part of.

00:24:47.880 But, you know, you go into jail for a day and then you come out.

00:24:51.660 Tell us about that, because this is one of the things,

00:24:53.480 as we start to edge towards the policy conversations,

00:24:56.920 one of the things that I think a lot of people

00:24:58.720 are kind of like trying to work out is you mentioned shoplifting

00:25:02.660 and stealing things.

00:25:04.040 Yeah.

00:25:04.820 Like, what happens to a drug addict who gets arrested by the police?

00:25:09.300 Back then, maybe three days at the most for various types of crimes.

00:25:18.640 For shoplifting, after Prop 47 passed in 2014, it was a ticket.

00:25:23.320 You know, you might go to the station for a few hours,

00:25:26.160 then you're let go.

00:25:28.420 Basically, if you're not doing something violent,

00:25:29.900 you're not going to jail.

00:25:30.660 And that becomes very difficult,

00:25:33.580 because a lot of people start to desire to go to jail

00:25:35.760 for a long period of time.

00:25:37.840 And the only way to really do it is to commit violence.

00:25:40.180 And if you commit violence,

00:25:41.100 you're going to have a violent criminal record.

00:25:43.420 It sort of becomes this tough situation to navigate.

00:25:46.480 Why do you want to go to jail?

00:25:48.760 Because I couldn't stop.

00:25:49.960 You know, I just couldn't stop doing drugs.

00:25:51.380 I was going to die.

00:25:52.360 I, you know, your back starts hurting

00:25:55.320 from sleeping on the concrete.

00:25:56.900 You know, you get, you grow tiresome of this.

00:25:59.440 And, and, and you want to go to prison.

00:26:02.320 You know, I wanted to go to prison by, by 2015.

00:26:05.020 I wanted to, I wanted to go to prison.

00:26:07.360 And I just didn't know how to do it

00:26:09.760 without doing something horrible, you know?

00:26:12.800 And how did you end up going to prison?

00:26:14.940 Oh, I got really lucky.

00:26:16.120 I, I, well, I actually didn't go to prison.

00:26:21.360 I, I, I faced a prison sentence.

00:26:23.320 So I was on meth and I was in Panda Express,

00:26:27.900 which is, you know, a restaurant here.

00:26:29.280 And, and it was actually the Panda Express

00:26:32.000 inside of a food court inside of the major library

00:26:34.840 in downtown Los Angeles.

00:26:36.840 And I was in that Panda Express

00:26:38.160 and I reached for a plate, you know,

00:26:41.240 people would leave plates of food sometimes,

00:26:43.120 like when they were done with it.

00:26:44.300 So I went and I started picking at orange chicken

00:26:46.160 and another homeless man, unbeknownst to me,

00:26:49.780 had claimed to this chicken already. 0.72

00:26:51.400 And a sucker punched me in the face.

00:26:53.360 And we started, you know, fighting over this chicken.

00:26:57.420 And, and I didn't really know what to do.

00:27:00.380 You know, he was bigger than me and he, he, you know,

00:27:02.700 we sort of got to a standstill and he was like,

00:27:04.500 you got to pay me for that chicken.

00:27:05.620 And I said, oh, no, you know what?

00:27:07.080 I was on the, I, he took my cell phone.

00:27:08.700 That's what happened.

00:27:09.200 He took my, I had a cell phone.

00:27:10.840 Most homeless people do.

00:27:12.880 In fact, the more cell phones you have,

00:27:14.440 the more likely you're probably homeless.

00:27:16.200 I mean, cause they sort of hand them out.

00:27:17.500 So I actually had multiple cell phones,

00:27:19.940 but he took my cell phone and essentially said,

00:27:22.680 you're gonna have to give me $10

00:27:23.440 if you want your cell phone back.

00:27:24.760 And I said, well, I really, you know,

00:27:26.180 I don't want to do that.

00:27:27.720 And eventually I pulled out a knife

00:27:30.160 and I sort of, I didn't,

00:27:32.400 I sort of lunged at him with a knife.

00:27:34.540 And at this point, security from the library

00:27:36.580 had come and sort of detained both of us

00:27:38.180 and the police came and looked at the footage.

00:27:40.360 And, you know, you can't do that.

00:27:42.740 You know, you can't try to lunge at somebody.

00:27:44.300 So, so I got arrested for assault

00:27:45.900 with a deadly weapon and went to jail

00:27:48.560 and was gonna go to prison for a year and a half

00:27:50.460 for assault with a deadly weapon.

00:27:52.800 I got a public defender and they basically told me

00:27:54.760 they were gonna drop the charges and let me go.

00:27:56.260 And I said, please don't let me go.

00:27:58.180 I don't want the charge, but please don't let me go.

00:28:00.140 And they said, well, you know,

00:28:00.900 that's pretty difficult to do.

00:28:02.060 And they said, well, we can give you

00:28:02.940 a six month violation and then drop the charges.

00:28:06.180 And I said, that's the most perfect situation

00:28:07.920 I've ever heard.

00:28:08.480 You know, that that's exactly what I want.

00:28:10.000 And she told the judge and the judge gave it to me.

00:28:12.680 They gave me a six month violation.

00:28:14.760 And I did six months.

00:28:16.240 You know, when you're saying that,

00:28:17.780 I'm just thinking, why isn't there a program

00:28:22.160 which takes these people off the streets,

00:28:25.080 tries them out and gets them back functioning

00:28:28.540 and hopefully back into the real world?

00:28:30.960 Well, there were programs like that.

00:28:32.720 You know, there was the Midnight Mission.

00:28:34.080 There's the Union Rescue Mission.

00:28:35.640 These are programs on Skid Row

00:28:37.320 and they're great programs.

00:28:38.340 And I actually went to one one time

00:28:39.680 for about seven months.

00:28:42.620 They're, you know, it's a miracle factory.

00:28:44.280 I mean, but you have to voluntarily go.

00:28:46.320 You know, it's very hard to voluntarily go.

00:28:48.040 And, you know, you can voluntarily leave too.

00:28:51.080 So it's very difficult to, you know,

00:28:55.780 encourage someone on fentanyl

00:28:57.100 to go to one of these programs,

00:28:58.300 especially the detox process.

00:28:59.600 It's so difficult and painful.

00:29:02.320 But there was a, there's SB 1380,

00:29:05.340 which Gavin Newsom passed

00:29:06.240 when he was Lieutenant Governor.

00:29:07.660 And this is a state bill in California

00:29:10.640 passed, I think, 2014 or 2015,

00:29:12.520 which states that any program

00:29:15.240 that desires state funding

00:29:16.340 cannot require sobriety.

00:29:18.420 This was a housing first policy,

00:29:20.440 sort of top down from the federal government

00:29:21.880 under the Obama administration.

00:29:23.740 And that sort of ended everything.

00:29:25.500 So the Midnight Mission

00:29:26.280 wanted to get that sweet state money.

00:29:29.660 And in order to receive that state money,

00:29:31.640 they could no longer require sobriety

00:29:33.260 tied to housing.

00:29:35.520 So it's essentially a fentanyl housing program now.

00:29:40.040 Wow.

00:29:40.560 Yeah.

00:29:41.300 You know, when I was,

00:29:43.160 when I was listening to an interview you were on,

00:29:46.300 you said the words,

00:29:48.000 you were glad that you went to prison

00:29:50.800 because prison helped you get sober.

00:29:54.020 Yeah.

00:29:54.900 Yeah.

00:29:55.280 Well, I didn't go to prison.

00:29:56.260 I went to LA.

00:29:56.660 Sorry.

00:29:56.780 Sorry, Brits always get confused.

00:29:58.740 No, it's okay.

00:29:59.380 You went to jail.

00:29:59.920 You went to jail.

00:30:00.900 There's all these podcasts now

00:30:02.000 with guys from prison

00:30:02.760 and they always want to call each other out

00:30:04.560 for lying about their time at prison.

00:30:05.900 So I didn't go to prison.

00:30:07.220 Call us out.

00:30:07.900 It's awful.

00:30:08.400 It's awful.

00:30:09.100 You went to jail.

00:30:09.880 I went to LA County Jail.

00:30:11.100 LA County Jail.

00:30:11.480 Which is worse than prison, probably.

00:30:13.280 Why?

00:30:14.420 Because it's smaller quarters.

00:30:15.620 There's worse food.

00:30:17.940 Everyone's kind of on edge about their case.

00:30:19.840 You know, they don't,

00:30:20.300 once you're in prison,

00:30:21.000 you sort of know the deal.

00:30:21.960 Okay, I'm going to be here for six years.

00:30:23.120 It's just a little bit more of a tense place,

00:30:25.120 but I had a great time.

00:30:27.400 I mean, I had a wonderful time.

00:30:28.640 It was one of the,

00:30:29.740 probably the greatest times of my life.

00:30:32.520 Because you weren't using or why?

00:30:34.880 Because I finally got a bed and a pillow

00:30:37.240 and I just didn't have any responsibilities

00:30:39.000 and I just knew that like,

00:30:40.560 my one task was like to not,

00:30:42.720 just to get off heroin.

00:30:43.920 You know, it took me like three or four weeks

00:30:46.380 to get a full night's sleep

00:30:47.380 and just I detoxed hard

00:30:48.820 and I just read books.

00:30:50.780 I read books every day.

00:30:52.640 I just, you know,

00:30:53.100 I pretend I was on a beach

00:30:54.120 and just lay on my bed

00:30:55.060 and just read a book.

00:30:56.440 And I really grew up.

00:30:58.520 I mean, I really became a man.

00:31:00.680 You know, that's not,

00:31:01.460 there's better places to become a man,

00:31:03.220 but, you know, I really was a boy.

00:31:05.000 I was still a boy.

00:31:06.280 And I got to learn so many things

00:31:08.800 about different cultures

00:31:09.960 and, you know,

00:31:11.140 I had to join a gang

00:31:12.280 and I had to really, you know,

00:31:15.340 immerse myself in some dangerous situations

00:31:17.100 and I came out of it unscathed

00:31:18.540 and I really think

00:31:19.760 that was a growth experience.

00:31:21.520 I don't recommend it for everybody,

00:31:22.880 but I had a phenomenally interesting time.

00:31:26.600 Yeah.

00:31:27.260 You said you had to join a gang.

00:31:29.320 Yeah.

00:31:30.340 Talk to us about that.

00:31:32.180 Yeah.

00:31:32.440 Well, when you go to LA County Jail,

00:31:33.660 you have to join a gang.

00:31:34.780 Everyone has to join a gang.

00:31:35.760 There's no like,

00:31:36.400 I'll just opt out of that.

00:31:37.700 You know, everyone goes to a gang

00:31:38.820 and the gangs are racially based.

00:31:41.020 So you have to join a race gang. 0.98

00:31:42.560 I wasn't excited to join a race gang, 1.00

00:31:44.520 but, you know,

00:31:44.980 when you went in Rome,

00:31:46.340 you, you know,

00:31:46.780 you join a race gang. 0.95

00:31:48.300 And if you're white, 0.98

00:31:50.000 you have to join the Peckerwoods 0.98

00:31:51.540 or the, or the neo-Nazis.

00:31:55.440 But everyone just joins the Peckerwoods.

00:31:57.140 I mean, that's really kind of like

00:31:58.320 the easy route, you know.

00:31:59.760 Who are the Peckerwoods? 1.00

00:32:00.860 The Peckerwoods are like diet Nazis, I guess. 1.00

00:32:04.280 I mean, they're not really racist. 0.98

00:32:05.420 They're just white guys. 0.67

00:32:07.400 So like if a dad goes in for drunk driving

00:32:09.660 and he's like a businessman,

00:32:10.760 he'll join the Peckerwoods.

00:32:12.200 I mean, there's just no,

00:32:13.520 that's the lowest level that you can join.

00:32:16.660 But there were Nazis, you know,

00:32:18.020 there were Nazis.

00:32:19.000 And I am, by birth,

00:32:21.460 I'm half Jewish, half Irish.

00:32:23.200 I don't really look Jewish.

00:32:25.020 So, but my last name is relatively Jewish.

00:32:27.340 So I went in there

00:32:28.860 and like a Nazi greeted me

00:32:30.280 and was, you know,

00:32:31.020 asked me what my name,

00:32:31.820 asked me for my paperwork.

00:32:33.300 My name is Jared Clickstein.

00:32:35.700 He, you know,

00:32:36.180 his eyebrow raised a little bit

00:32:37.600 and then he looked me up and down

00:32:38.760 and he said, you know,

00:32:40.940 he's like, are you German?

00:32:42.220 And I just said, yeah, I'm German.

00:32:44.900 And he loved that, you know.

00:32:47.360 I bet he did.

00:32:49.000 He is one of us.

00:32:51.380 And, but weeks later,

00:32:53.020 I figured out that they actually

00:32:54.240 didn't have a problem with Jews.

00:32:56.000 And what?

00:32:56.760 What?

00:32:57.420 Yeah, I guess they were like,

00:32:58.560 they've had like a reformation

00:32:59.720 or something or, you know,

00:33:00.960 they're like,

00:33:01.660 they've,

00:33:02.500 DEI has really hit the Nazis,

00:33:03.940 I guess.

00:33:04.600 So prison Nazis don't hate Jews? 0.87

00:33:06.900 Well, I don't think

00:33:07.460 they're like fond of them,

00:33:08.640 but, but also this was like 2015,

00:33:12.080 kind of a peaceful time in America.

00:33:13.900 Like people were getting along.

00:33:16.040 So maybe they had,

00:33:17.000 they had sort of calmed down about that.

00:33:18.620 But I found out

00:33:19.160 there's a kosher meal in jail

00:33:20.400 and it's like worth

00:33:21.140 the most money out of anything.

00:33:22.240 So I actually came clean

00:33:24.540 and admitted that I was,

00:33:25.820 I was Jewish.

00:33:27.480 And the Nazis thought it was funny

00:33:30.420 and they thought it was fine.

00:33:31.560 And they asked me about legal advice

00:33:35.740 for their cases.

00:33:37.020 And they sort of thought

00:33:37.820 because I was Jewish,

00:33:38.540 I could help them with their case.

00:33:40.360 And to be honest,

00:33:41.880 they were like,

00:33:43.120 at first they were like,

00:33:44.600 well, what are you doing?

00:33:45.460 You know, if you're Jewish,

00:33:46.140 what are you doing here?

00:33:47.560 And they're like,

00:33:48.000 can't you make a,

00:33:48.620 doesn't your uncle own the prison

00:33:50.400 or something?

00:33:50.880 Like, can't you make a phone call?

00:33:52.060 And I,

00:33:52.720 because they had already gotten to know me

00:33:53.940 as a normal guy.

00:33:54.680 And they're like, 0.80

00:33:55.000 this guy's just a street crackhead. 0.65

00:33:56.280 And then when they realized 0.94

00:33:56.980 I was Jewish,

00:33:57.920 I think it opened up their mind to like,

00:33:59.920 well, I guess a Jewish guy

00:34:01.600 can just be a normal guy.

00:34:02.820 I mean, I guess anything could happen.

00:34:04.120 You know, people are just people.

00:34:05.300 And, and,

00:34:05.700 and I've stayed in contact

00:34:07.140 with some of them.

00:34:07.800 And one of the guys like

00:34:08.720 covered up his swastika tattoo

00:34:10.260 and he's sort of like a normal,

00:34:11.380 he got off drugs.

00:34:12.380 And I don't think I did that,

00:34:14.240 but I think I might've like

00:34:15.140 played a role in it,

00:34:16.200 you know,

00:34:16.360 just kind of opening up

00:34:17.520 people's minds to like,

00:34:19.980 you know,

00:34:21.080 a Jewish guy can just be a guy.

00:34:23.180 You know,

00:34:23.600 he doesn't have to own the prison,

00:34:25.300 you know,

00:34:25.800 or whatever.

00:34:26.440 So I don't think he'd ever

00:34:27.740 really met a Jewish person.

00:34:29.040 Right.

00:34:29.280 Yeah.

00:34:29.540 So,

00:34:29.820 so you joined the Pecker Woods

00:34:31.000 and you mentioned,

00:34:32.060 again,

00:34:32.740 from what I know,

00:34:33.760 which is nothing,

00:34:35.180 there is a lot of tension

00:34:36.360 between the different gangs

00:34:38.180 on a racial basis.

00:34:39.640 Is that,

00:34:40.100 was that going on

00:34:40.800 when you were there?

00:34:41.380 Yeah.

00:34:41.740 So the,

00:34:42.200 the,

00:34:42.420 the Pecker Woods

00:34:43.240 or the,

00:34:43.620 just really the whites

00:34:44.440 are, 0.52

00:34:45.000 are linked up with the Mexicans.

00:34:47.640 So the Mexicans, 0.99

00:34:48.800 the Southsiders,

00:34:50.180 they have an alliance

00:34:51.220 against the, 0.95

00:34:52.580 the blacks 0.97

00:34:53.860 and the Asians,

00:34:55.000 which is like

00:34:56.320 a very funny arrangement.

00:34:58.820 So I don't know,

00:34:59.820 I don't know the history of that.

00:35:00.960 I don't know why it's like that.

00:35:01.960 I think it does date back

00:35:02.960 to like meth dealing agreements

00:35:05.280 between neo-Nazis

00:35:07.000 and the Southsiders.

00:35:08.100 I,

00:35:08.240 I'm not sure,

00:35:08.960 but you're basically linked up

00:35:11.000 with the Mexicans

00:35:11.660 and you're their ally.

00:35:13.740 And really the whites 0.92

00:35:14.800 get a lot more benefit

00:35:15.860 from this relationship

00:35:16.660 than the Mexicans. 0.93

00:35:17.860 So you have to be

00:35:18.760 a worthy ally,

00:35:19.720 which means you have to

00:35:20.320 work out every day

00:35:21.140 and keep up appearances

00:35:22.180 and you know,

00:35:23.440 you got to sort of pretend

00:35:24.780 to give,

00:35:26.000 you know, 1.00

00:35:26.240 give a shit 1.00

00:35:26.600 about all this stuff. 1.00

00:35:27.540 And,

00:35:28.120 and there is tension,

00:35:30.620 you know,

00:35:30.940 really mainly between

00:35:31.760 the Mexicans 0.81

00:35:32.240 and the blacks. 0.78

00:35:33.660 The Asians and the whites 1.00

00:35:34.360 are kind of on the sidelines.

00:35:36.100 Because those are the two

00:35:36.860 biggest demographics

00:35:37.640 in the prison?

00:35:38.260 Those are the two

00:35:38.780 biggest demographics

00:35:39.500 and also on the street,

00:35:40.600 they have a huge rivalry

00:35:42.280 for territory.

00:35:43.720 There's a huge problem.

00:35:45.160 I mean,

00:35:45.240 it really specifically

00:35:46.040 in Los Angeles

00:35:46.860 where there's almost

00:35:47.700 an ethnic cleansing 0.97

00:35:48.540 of blacks by Mexicans, 0.90

00:35:50.460 which is never reported

00:35:51.880 in the news

00:35:52.340 or talked about.

00:35:53.260 But, you know,

00:35:54.280 there are cities

00:35:54.920 that blacks have 1.00

00:35:55.740 essentially been, 0.76

00:35:56.860 they call it greenlit,

00:35:58.980 meaning like there's

00:35:59.660 the green light 1.00

00:36:00.160 to kill any black person 1.00

00:36:01.480 if you're in a Mexican gang. 1.00

00:36:03.300 You know,

00:36:03.620 like places like

00:36:04.400 Highland Park

00:36:06.480 and places like,

00:36:07.660 you know,

00:36:09.220 Winneka

00:36:09.800 and, you know,

00:36:10.440 places in the valley.

00:36:11.400 So that's sort of a war

00:36:12.940 that isn't really reported.

00:36:14.440 I don't know.

00:36:14.920 Maybe it's died down a bit.

00:36:16.020 I'm not sure.

00:36:16.780 But...

00:36:17.100 And how did this affect

00:36:18.580 your life

00:36:19.380 when you were in prison?

00:36:20.980 All of this stuff

00:36:21.820 that's going on.

00:36:22.480 Well, since you're allied

00:36:23.200 with the Mexicans... 0.90

00:36:24.240 In jail. 0.64

00:36:24.620 Sorry.

00:36:25.020 No, no, it's totally okay.

00:36:27.580 You're allied with the Mexicans 0.97

00:36:28.740 so they sort of set the rules.

00:36:30.020 I mean, they run the place.

00:36:30.940 I mean, they run the place

00:36:31.760 more than the guards.

00:36:33.500 I mean, they're in charge.

00:36:34.620 And because of that,

00:36:36.500 you know, 0.82

00:36:36.760 they view blacks 0.99

00:36:37.760 as lesser than human. 0.99

00:36:40.200 And there are... 0.86

00:36:41.840 The Mexicans are our allies

00:36:42.860 so we have to do

00:36:43.360 what they say, really.

00:36:44.460 And they make the rules

00:36:45.340 and the rules are that

00:36:45.900 you can't share food 0.97

00:36:46.740 with the blacks 0.99

00:36:47.240 and you can't shower 1.00

00:36:48.640 with the blacks 1.00

00:36:49.280 and you can't sit 1.00

00:36:50.240 on a black's bed. 0.88

00:36:51.180 You can't get too friendly 1.00

00:36:52.080 with a black.

00:36:53.040 But you have to respect them,

00:36:54.440 you know, to prevent a race war.

00:36:55.720 So it's actually

00:36:56.320 a very respectful place,

00:36:57.600 although there is

00:36:58.100 this sort of nasty

00:36:58.940 racial stuff going on. 0.97

00:37:01.420 And the whites in jail 0.96

00:37:03.840 that I,

00:37:04.260 at least in my experience,

00:37:05.620 kind of didn't care

00:37:06.400 about any of it,

00:37:07.120 but they just had to

00:37:07.820 follow these rules

00:37:08.500 in order to sort of

00:37:09.940 impress the Mexicans.

00:37:11.620 It's all about

00:37:12.400 impressing the Mexicans. 0.90

00:37:13.360 That's...

00:37:15.360 That's...

00:37:16.360 That's...

00:37:17.500 That is...

00:37:18.500 It's a different world.

00:37:19.360 It's a different world.

00:37:20.840 And were you worried?

00:37:22.600 Because, you know,

00:37:23.100 you watch the movies

00:37:24.040 about these types

00:37:25.040 of institutions

00:37:25.840 and, you know,

00:37:27.100 you're always constantly

00:37:28.300 there,

00:37:28.840 eye over the shoulder,

00:37:30.160 looking around,

00:37:31.000 thinking someone's

00:37:31.620 going to attack me, 0.93

00:37:32.440 beat me up, 0.53

00:37:33.080 or is that just not true?

00:37:35.240 Well, I think it really

00:37:36.160 is different

00:37:36.840 across the United States.

00:37:38.500 It's very specific.

00:37:39.980 This is very specific

00:37:40.880 to Los Angeles,

00:37:42.000 really greater California,

00:37:43.100 and maybe even

00:37:43.860 the Southwest of America.

00:37:45.940 It's all pretty standard.

00:37:47.320 I mean, you...

00:37:47.860 These gangs...

00:37:48.880 This is a gang,

00:37:49.900 you know, culture.

00:37:51.040 It's...

00:37:51.180 It's the Beckerwoods,

00:37:52.840 the Southsiders, 0.97

00:37:53.640 and the Blacks. 0.91

00:37:54.820 And these are the rules. 0.97

00:37:56.200 And really,

00:37:57.000 there wasn't...

00:37:58.660 There was a lot of violence,

00:37:59.920 but it was inflicted

00:38:01.020 by your own race.

00:38:01.920 So if, like,

00:38:02.440 a Mexican saw you 0.99

00:38:04.080 spitting trash 1.00

00:38:06.040 into the urinal 0.97

00:38:06.680 or something,

00:38:07.200 which is a rule,

00:38:07.800 you can't break that rule,

00:38:09.220 they would then inform

00:38:10.660 your shot caller

00:38:11.820 and your shot caller

00:38:12.800 to show respect

00:38:13.500 to the Mexicans 0.98

00:38:14.100 would do an in-house punishment. 0.99

00:38:16.020 So three white guys 0.99

00:38:16.920 would beat you up 0.99

00:38:17.980 for 23 seconds.

00:38:20.160 And...

00:38:20.680 Why 23 seconds?

00:38:22.060 Because W is the 23rd letter

00:38:23.860 in the alphabet

00:38:24.380 and W stands for wood

00:38:26.180 because we're,

00:38:26.800 you know,

00:38:27.060 we're woods,

00:38:28.680 I guess.

00:38:29.360 And so there's really...

00:38:31.240 The majority of the violence

00:38:32.080 is actually inflicted

00:38:33.020 by your own race

00:38:34.140 to show respect

00:38:35.200 to the other races

00:38:35.920 if something disrespectful occurs.

00:38:38.320 So it's maintaining...

00:38:39.240 It's not like random violence

00:38:41.220 where someone is like,

00:38:42.180 oh, you're new here, 0.99

00:38:42.920 I'm gonna beat you up 1.00

00:38:44.100 or rape you or whatever. 1.00

00:38:45.320 I think that definitely 1.00

00:38:46.020 goes on in other states

00:38:47.420 and other, you know,

00:38:48.400 regions of America,

00:38:49.580 but it's non-existent,

00:38:51.500 really,

00:38:51.780 in Los Angeles.

00:38:53.420 And how come

00:38:53.900 there are no drugs in prison?

00:38:55.100 Because we keep being in jail.

00:38:57.200 It's totally okay.

00:38:58.340 How come...

00:38:59.220 I keep...

00:39:00.060 No, I want to be accurate.

00:39:01.260 How come there are no drugs in jail?

00:39:02.800 Because what we hear is

00:39:04.340 there's more drugs in jail

00:39:05.680 than anywhere.

00:39:06.720 Well, there are drugs in jail.

00:39:08.460 That is a common line by...

00:39:10.800 I guess...

00:39:12.800 What's the word

00:39:14.300 for someone that's against prison?

00:39:16.220 Oh, abolitionists, I guess.

00:39:17.540 Yeah, so that's a big

00:39:18.540 talking line from them

00:39:19.800 is that there's more drugs in jail

00:39:21.120 than there are in the streets.

00:39:22.640 I mean, that's absolutely not true.

00:39:24.560 There are drugs in jail.

00:39:26.360 They're very limited quantities.

00:39:28.420 They're primarily reserved

00:39:29.560 for the shot callers

00:39:30.620 and anyone...

00:39:31.560 They call it politics,

00:39:32.540 like anyone high in politics

00:39:33.780 in jail.

00:39:34.440 They're incredibly expensive.

00:39:36.040 I mean, if you want to get

00:39:36.880 a single, you know,

00:39:38.840 serving of heroin in jail,

00:39:40.720 you know, you have to have

00:39:41.400 someone on the outside

00:39:42.440 wire money to someone else's family

00:39:45.300 like $100

00:39:46.080 for like a tiny little

00:39:47.340 $5 piece of heroin.

00:39:49.260 So it's a 20x, you know,

00:39:51.140 price increase.

00:39:51.920 So, yeah, there's drugs in jail.

00:39:54.080 It's very...

00:39:55.100 They're very expensive.

00:39:58.160 Hypnosis gets a bad rap,

00:39:59.880 but it's not a gimmick.

00:40:00.620 It's a legitimate therapeutic tool

00:40:02.600 backed by research.

00:40:03.940 And when it comes to weight loss,

00:40:05.220 it can be a game changer.

00:40:07.160 Hypnotio is a self-hypnotherapy app

00:40:09.440 that helps you break

00:40:10.440 bad eating patterns

00:40:11.400 by working at the subconscious level

00:40:13.320 where the real habits live.

00:40:15.060 It's for people who are done 0.98

00:40:16.260 with willpower-only plans.

00:40:18.120 Hypnotio helps you tackle

00:40:19.560 emotional eating,

00:40:20.900 stress-related cravings,

00:40:22.200 and food anxiety

00:40:22.900 using proven techniques

00:40:24.280 that reduce cortisol,

00:40:25.980 improve portion control,

00:40:27.220 and build long-term habits.

00:40:28.560 All in a way that fits

00:40:29.960 into real life

00:40:30.760 from your phone,

00:40:31.660 tablet, or your computer.

00:40:33.020 Clinical studies show

00:40:34.060 that users lost

00:40:34.900 twice as much weight

00:40:35.840 as those using

00:40:36.580 traditional diets alone.

00:40:38.180 And 94% maintained

00:40:39.860 that weight loss

00:40:40.580 more effectively over time.

00:40:42.260 It's not about hacks.

00:40:43.380 It's about fixing

00:40:44.160 the deeper programming.

00:40:45.700 Hypnosis-based programs

00:40:46.900 reduced BMI

00:40:47.760 and emotional eating

00:40:48.700 significantly

00:40:49.440 compared to standard diets.

00:40:51.520 So what are you waiting for?

00:40:52.680 Use our link

00:40:53.380 in the description box

00:40:54.500 and pinned comment 0.76

00:40:55.180 and grab 15%

00:40:56.620 off your first subscription.

00:40:58.560 And was there

00:40:59.540 a sobriety program

00:41:00.740 that you attended

00:41:01.500 in jail in a way?

00:41:03.020 So like a 12-step program

00:41:05.720 in order to help you

00:41:06.480 become clean and sober?

00:41:07.880 Yeah, they would bring

00:41:08.900 AA meetings into jail,

00:41:10.600 various 12-step meetings

00:41:11.960 into jail.

00:41:12.580 I'd go to the meetings.

00:41:15.620 I enjoyed it,

00:41:17.240 but the real problem

00:41:18.400 was that you go to jail

00:41:19.820 and then they just

00:41:20.360 sort of let you go.

00:41:21.600 They just let you out of jail

00:41:22.840 after six months

00:41:24.440 and there's no real

00:41:25.180 landing pad for you to hit.

00:41:26.720 So that was the,

00:41:29.500 you know,

00:41:29.700 I was like wishing

00:41:30.680 that they would mandate me

00:41:31.720 to a treatment place

00:41:33.020 after jail

00:41:33.780 and I was even writing letters

00:41:35.580 to treatment places

00:41:36.660 to try to get them

00:41:37.420 to take me in.

00:41:38.960 But yeah,

00:41:40.600 so it was really easy

00:41:41.740 for me to stay sober in jail,

00:41:42.900 but once I got out of jail,

00:41:44.580 you know,

00:41:44.840 they sort of just let you out

00:41:45.940 at two o'clock in the morning

00:41:47.100 right next to Skid Row.

00:41:48.100 So it's pretty,

00:41:48.920 you know,

00:41:49.160 it's tough.

00:41:49.760 So you ended up

00:41:50.320 right back there?

00:41:51.840 Yeah,

00:41:52.360 my intention was to stay sober,

00:41:53.820 but I was in a release pod

00:41:55.260 with someone that I knew

00:41:56.100 that had money,

00:41:57.000 you know,

00:41:57.120 they were getting released

00:41:57.720 with 40 bucks,

00:41:58.580 so we went and got high

00:41:59.740 and,

00:42:00.480 you know,

00:42:01.820 there's nothing I could really do.

00:42:02.880 So this is like,

00:42:03.700 you know,

00:42:03.960 people accuse me

00:42:04.820 of being like a very pro-jail,

00:42:06.580 like let's just send everyone

00:42:07.360 to jail

00:42:07.820 and I'm not,

00:42:08.620 you know,

00:42:08.760 that's not what I'm saying.

00:42:09.940 You know,

00:42:10.100 there's,

00:42:11.580 we really need

00:42:12.380 an all-encompassing,

00:42:13.560 you know,

00:42:13.860 solution to this

00:42:14.640 and jail alone

00:42:15.880 is not that solution.

00:42:16.820 Jail plays a role

00:42:17.520 in the solution,

00:42:18.520 but,

00:42:18.900 you know,

00:42:19.740 there has to be

00:42:20.360 like a process

00:42:21.220 of graduated

00:42:22.200 reintroduction

00:42:23.580 into society

00:42:24.180 and most importantly

00:42:25.360 like a preparation

00:42:26.480 for joining society,

00:42:28.220 you know,

00:42:28.460 in the form of job training.

00:42:30.080 Absolutely,

00:42:30.680 because one of the things

00:42:31.860 and you know better than me

00:42:32.740 about addiction

00:42:33.360 is that you literally

00:42:34.280 put a pause button

00:42:36.040 on your life.

00:42:37.020 So when you're an addict,

00:42:38.220 you don't care about,

00:42:39.680 you don't care about

00:42:40.880 acquiring skills,

00:42:41.920 getting better,

00:42:42.520 becoming a better person,

00:42:44.260 progressing in a career.

00:42:45.840 Yeah.

00:42:45.940 So when you get sober,

00:42:47.880 you're behind a lot of people.

00:42:51.900 Yeah,

00:42:52.160 I mean,

00:42:52.520 you basically don't have

00:42:53.620 anything on your resume.

00:42:55.300 You know,

00:42:55.720 you get tattoos

00:42:57.260 that you probably regret,

00:42:59.020 you know,

00:42:59.280 like me,

00:42:59.920 you know,

00:43:00.060 I just got all these tattoos now

00:43:01.360 and now I have a little bit

00:43:02.200 of a criminal record,

00:43:03.120 you know,

00:43:03.260 I have a felony

00:43:03.740 on my criminal record.

00:43:05.660 Obviously,

00:43:06.120 now I have a facial scar.

00:43:07.360 It becomes more difficult

00:43:08.540 to get a job.

00:43:09.280 We are obviously going to need

00:43:13.660 a lot of people working

00:43:15.040 in the coming 10 years,

00:43:16.380 you know,

00:43:16.580 in various industries.

00:43:17.480 We should really have

00:43:18.240 like a labor expert,

00:43:19.440 you know,

00:43:19.800 examine this.

00:43:20.500 You know,

00:43:20.600 where do we need people?

00:43:21.680 Are we going to need

00:43:22.220 300,000 electricians

00:43:23.380 to support the grid?

00:43:24.760 If so,

00:43:25.560 let's maybe do some

00:43:26.880 training programs

00:43:28.180 for these people.

00:43:29.720 I unfortunately

00:43:30.660 didn't get anything like that,

00:43:31.700 but I did have carpentry skills.

00:43:33.060 So I was always willing

00:43:34.020 to do construction

00:43:34.680 and do carpentry

00:43:35.500 and eventually landed

00:43:38.040 at a non-profit

00:43:38.820 long-term rehab

00:43:39.780 where they allowed me

00:43:41.140 to go look for work.

00:43:41.960 I got a decent-paying

00:43:43.080 carpentry job

00:43:43.840 and that sort of,

00:43:45.700 that's where I got sober.

00:43:46.900 So jail sort of helped me 0.97

00:43:48.040 get to that point,

00:43:49.100 but jail was not the actual

00:43:52.380 all-encompassing solution.

00:43:54.880 And speaking of solutions,

00:43:56.020 I mean,

00:43:56.240 one of the things

00:43:56.840 that I can sort of sense

00:43:58.100 in reading between the lines

00:43:59.560 of everything you're saying

00:44:00.540 is getting clean

00:44:03.040 is the most important thing

00:44:04.280 and it sounds like

00:44:05.200 a very, very, very,

00:44:06.420 very, very hard thing

00:44:07.660 to do by yourself.

00:44:10.340 Yeah, it's incredibly hard.

00:44:11.780 What makes it infinitely

00:44:13.180 more hard is that,

00:44:14.580 or more difficult,

00:44:15.880 is that the state

00:44:16.880 currently in places

00:44:18.000 like California

00:44:18.640 are doing everything

00:44:19.420 in their power

00:44:20.160 to make it as easy

00:44:21.080 as possible

00:44:21.580 to keep getting high.

00:44:23.600 And when it's easy

00:44:24.440 to get high

00:44:24.900 and when it's easy

00:44:25.400 to keep doing

00:44:25.860 what you're going to,

00:44:26.520 I mean,

00:44:26.740 addicts will take the path

00:44:27.820 of least resistance.

00:44:29.260 You know,

00:44:29.440 they really don't have agency.

00:44:30.960 I mean,

00:44:31.140 I've been there.

00:44:31.740 You're really not you.

00:44:32.720 I mean,

00:44:34.300 you will do anything

00:44:35.640 to get drugs.

00:44:36.400 I mean,

00:44:36.540 you will rob

00:44:36.960 your grandmother. 0.99

00:44:38.240 You will,

00:44:38.800 you know,

00:44:39.180 sacrifice,

00:44:40.280 you know,

00:44:40.740 you would sacrifice

00:44:41.720 an entire relationship

00:44:44.300 with a family member

00:44:45.020 for $20.

00:44:46.020 I mean,

00:44:46.340 you know,

00:44:46.560 you're not really

00:44:47.080 making the decision.

00:44:48.000 So if you just let

00:44:48.860 that thing coast, 1.00

00:44:50.500 it's just going to keep

00:44:51.420 coasting towards death.

00:44:52.740 I mean,

00:44:52.900 that's what's going to happen.

00:44:53.860 So every incentive

00:44:55.400 we currently have

00:44:56.240 is for people

00:44:57.220 to keep doing

00:44:57.880 what they're doing

00:44:58.400 and we need

00:44:58.840 every incentive

00:44:59.420 in place

00:44:59.980 to be encouraging

00:45:01.440 people to get sober.

00:45:02.320 What does that look like?

00:45:03.820 That looks like,

00:45:05.000 at least in California,

00:45:06.140 where I'm familiar,

00:45:07.120 what I'm familiar with,

00:45:08.720 recriminalizing crime.

00:45:10.700 Crime has essentially

00:45:11.760 across the board

00:45:12.680 been decriminalized.

00:45:15.240 This is not good.

00:45:16.480 As a drug addict,

00:45:18.620 when I was out there,

00:45:20.960 before Prop 47,

00:45:22.620 which was the decriminalization

00:45:24.360 of shoplifting,

00:45:25.200 I didn't shoplift.

00:45:26.000 I mean,

00:45:26.360 you actually got

00:45:27.320 consequences for that.

00:45:28.280 You could get a felony,

00:45:29.160 you know,

00:45:29.440 if you stole enough things.

00:45:30.340 I just didn't do it.

00:45:31.780 I would panhandle

00:45:33.720 or whatever.

00:45:35.080 I remember,

00:45:36.060 you know,

00:45:36.420 we wouldn't smash car windows

00:45:37.740 because there was a thing

00:45:38.760 in L.A.

00:45:39.300 where if you smashed

00:45:39.920 a car window

00:45:40.460 and you entered the car,

00:45:41.660 you could get

00:45:42.000 breaking and entering,

00:45:42.800 you could get a felony,

00:45:43.600 you'd go to prison.

00:45:44.240 I've never smashed

00:45:44.940 a car window.

00:45:46.140 Once they got rid of that,

00:45:47.160 now it's like

00:45:47.740 the biggest problem

00:45:48.540 in California

00:45:49.400 is smashing windows.

00:45:50.660 So, you know,

00:45:51.100 people will do

00:45:51.680 what you let them do.

00:45:53.080 So we need

00:45:53.940 to recriminalize crime,

00:45:55.320 especially,

00:45:55.640 property crime,

00:45:56.540 which is probably

00:45:58.320 the crime

00:45:58.680 that most addicts

00:45:59.400 do to get drugs.

00:46:00.380 So we need

00:46:01.520 to recriminalize that

00:46:02.680 and then we need

00:46:03.160 to actually arrest people

00:46:04.380 for doing these crimes.

00:46:05.380 And if they happen

00:46:05.920 to be drug addicts,

00:46:06.800 we have to give them

00:46:07.680 the option.

00:46:08.700 Now, you know,

00:46:09.240 do you want to get

00:46:09.740 punished for this crime

00:46:10.500 or do you want to be

00:46:11.160 mandated to a long-term

00:46:12.200 treatment program?

00:46:13.740 That's going to take

00:46:14.300 a lot of money.

00:46:14.800 That's going to take

00:46:15.180 a lot of work.

00:46:15.940 You know,

00:46:16.120 I understand why people

00:46:16.800 don't want to do that.

00:46:17.600 The biggest problem

00:46:18.360 is that it's the least

00:46:19.300 easy path

00:46:20.860 to launder

00:46:21.460 and steal money

00:46:22.200 by, you know,

00:46:23.660 non-profit,

00:46:24.280 globs

00:46:26.640 or whatever

00:46:26.920 you want to call them,

00:46:27.640 you know,

00:46:27.780 people that have

00:46:29.160 made billions

00:46:29.920 off this industry.

00:46:32.320 It's a lot more easy

00:46:33.340 to get a $5 million

00:46:34.380 contract to hand out

00:46:35.460 crack pipes

00:46:35.980 because there's no,

00:46:37.020 you know,

00:46:37.240 you just need a cart

00:46:39.740 and crack pipes 0.90

00:46:40.580 and you just need

00:46:41.420 to hand them out.

00:46:42.280 And, you know,

00:46:42.820 you just pay someone

00:46:43.680 with like a art history

00:46:45.660 degree to hand them

00:46:46.320 out for $30 an hour

00:46:47.360 and you get to pocket

00:46:48.320 millions of dollars.

00:46:49.300 That's really easy.

00:46:50.900 What's not easy

00:46:51.680 is pocketing

00:46:52.220 a million dollars

00:46:52.860 from actually having

00:46:53.860 to do some work

00:46:54.520 and help people.

00:46:56.500 Not that people

00:46:57.280 should be pocketing

00:46:57.920 millions of dollars

00:46:58.680 but it's become

00:47:00.060 a grift.

00:47:00.940 You know,

00:47:01.180 it's,

00:47:01.800 we've spent,

00:47:02.360 California spent

00:47:03.060 $24 billion

00:47:03.700 on homelessness

00:47:04.560 and addiction

00:47:06.340 in the last five years

00:47:07.500 and until last year

00:47:09.740 the number

00:47:10.100 just steadily climbed.

00:47:11.560 You know?

00:47:12.240 Do you think

00:47:13.340 that that's the reason

00:47:15.000 why a lot of crime

00:47:16.320 has been decriminalized?

00:47:18.320 Because it's just easier

00:47:20.140 than actually tackling it

00:47:21.780 or do you think

00:47:22.380 there's an ideological

00:47:23.160 basis behind

00:47:24.840 that policy decision?

00:47:26.800 Well,

00:47:27.040 there was definitely

00:47:27.500 an ideological basis

00:47:29.220 for this decision.

00:47:30.160 I mean,

00:47:30.980 during the time

00:47:31.860 of criminalization,

00:47:33.460 we'll call it,

00:47:33.980 you know,

00:47:34.300 I'd say

00:47:35.540 pre-2016,

00:47:37.880 especially pre-2020,

00:47:40.060 people were getting

00:47:41.640 arrested for doing

00:47:42.220 drugs and selling drugs

00:47:43.360 and it did ruin

00:47:44.180 some people's lives

00:47:44.920 and some people

00:47:45.420 had to go to prison

00:47:46.260 for 20 years

00:47:46.900 for selling crack cocaine

00:47:47.900 and, you know,

00:47:48.380 that's, you know,

00:47:49.880 a bit harsh.

00:47:50.680 I agree.

00:47:51.580 I think we did go

00:47:52.980 over the line

00:47:53.440 a little bit

00:47:53.900 and the system

00:47:55.740 wasn't working perfectly

00:47:56.800 so those in charge

00:47:57.940 said,

00:47:58.960 this system's not

00:47:59.560 working perfectly,

00:48:00.460 let's do the exact opposite.

00:48:01.980 You know,

00:48:02.300 it's never going

00:48:03.160 to work perfectly.

00:48:04.180 Definitely some lives

00:48:05.080 got ruined

00:48:05.460 but a lot of lives,

00:48:06.240 you know,

00:48:06.480 did, you know,

00:48:08.020 get saved

00:48:08.520 by getting the threat

00:48:09.940 of these

00:48:11.280 repercussions

00:48:12.560 really did encourage

00:48:13.780 people to change

00:48:14.440 their lives

00:48:14.820 and get sober.

00:48:15.340 If you go to any

00:48:15.900 AA meeting

00:48:16.420 or NA meeting,

00:48:17.540 a lot of people

00:48:18.220 will tell you

00:48:18.700 the reason why

00:48:19.260 I got,

00:48:19.620 a judge sent me here

00:48:20.860 or, you know,

00:48:21.760 I was facing

00:48:22.280 a prison sentence

00:48:22.960 and I,

00:48:23.820 they told me to come here

00:48:24.760 and now I've been

00:48:25.580 sober for 20 years

00:48:26.420 so definitely ideological.

00:48:28.800 Also,

00:48:29.100 we were just running

00:48:29.620 into an issue

00:48:30.160 where jails

00:48:30.760 were getting full.

00:48:31.520 I mean,

00:48:31.740 people were committing

00:48:32.440 crimes and going to jail

00:48:33.480 and we were running

00:48:34.200 out of space

00:48:34.760 and then COVID happened

00:48:36.360 and they wanted

00:48:36.860 to let everyone

00:48:37.360 out of jail

00:48:37.800 so they wouldn't

00:48:38.280 spread COVID.

00:48:39.360 I mean,

00:48:39.600 there's all kinds

00:48:40.340 of horrific,

00:48:41.880 terrible,

00:48:42.320 you know,

00:48:43.060 mistakes made.

00:48:44.580 Because also

00:48:45.300 the other problem

00:48:45.940 is in going back

00:48:46.680 to the discussion

00:48:47.300 about fentanyl,

00:48:48.840 you've got this

00:48:49.520 deadly drug

00:48:50.300 on the streets

00:48:51.000 so you need

00:48:52.480 some kind of

00:48:53.000 policies in place

00:48:53.820 because if your

00:48:54.600 whole thing is,

00:48:55.780 you know what,

00:48:56.120 we're just going

00:48:56.660 to let it run rampant

00:48:58.380 and then people

00:48:59.000 come and see us

00:48:59.720 when they see us,

00:49:01.200 if you've got a drug

00:49:01.920 that's killing people

00:49:02.720 at the rate fentanyl is,

00:49:03.800 most people aren't

00:49:04.620 going to be around

00:49:05.240 for that long.

00:49:05.900 Yeah,

00:49:06.580 so now we're seeing

00:49:07.340 a drop in ODs

00:49:08.940 and I'm wondering,

00:49:10.480 are we,

00:49:10.800 you know,

00:49:11.040 are we doing

00:49:11.400 the right thing

00:49:11.960 and that's why

00:49:12.340 it's dropping

00:49:12.740 or are we just

00:49:13.240 running out of people

00:49:14.040 to OD?

00:49:14.780 I mean,

00:49:15.120 806 people OD'd

00:49:16.520 last year in San Francisco.

00:49:18.520 San Francisco's

00:49:18.960 not a huge city.

00:49:19.860 I mean,

00:49:20.180 you know,

00:49:20.440 there's,

00:49:20.800 I don't know,

00:49:21.260 700,000 people

00:49:22.120 in San Francisco.

00:49:23.220 It has the highest

00:49:24.020 per capita OD rate

00:49:26.140 at 80 per 100,000 residents.

00:49:28.820 It also spends

00:49:29.880 the most amount

00:49:30.820 per capita

00:49:31.340 on harm reduction

00:49:32.340 and,

00:49:32.960 you know,

00:49:33.920 homelessness services.

00:49:34.840 It spends the most

00:49:36.160 per capita

00:49:36.620 probably on anything

00:49:37.420 and the number

00:49:39.100 has just steadily

00:49:39.820 increased.

00:49:40.500 I mean,

00:49:40.620 we spent $1.1 billion

00:49:41.860 to address homelessness

00:49:43.660 and addiction

00:49:44.120 in 2022.

00:49:46.020 That's a 500%

00:49:47.080 increase from 2016.

00:49:48.500 Meanwhile,

00:49:49.040 homelessness rose 64%

00:49:50.820 in that time frame.

00:49:51.660 So the more money

00:49:52.500 that we throw at it

00:49:53.440 doing the wrong thing,

00:49:55.060 it seems to just

00:49:55.720 actually increase

00:49:56.640 the level of ODs,

00:49:57.980 the level of addiction,

00:49:58.720 the level of homelessness.

00:50:00.000 Right,

00:50:00.340 because you're doing

00:50:01.260 the wrong thing.

00:50:02.080 We're doing the complete

00:50:02.780 wrong thing.

00:50:03.300 And your book

00:50:04.960 has a foreword

00:50:05.940 by our friend

00:50:06.480 Michael Schellenberger.

00:50:07.560 Yes.

00:50:07.960 And one of the things

00:50:08.660 he's talked about a lot

00:50:09.800 and he talked about

00:50:10.680 San Francisco,

00:50:12.300 he talked in San Francisco

00:50:14.040 about this,

00:50:14.740 his book,

00:50:15.020 San Francisco,

00:50:15.760 is the mental illness 1.00

00:50:17.100 part of it.

00:50:17.760 Yes.

00:50:18.200 And one of the things

00:50:19.200 that I've always been

00:50:20.160 persuaded by,

00:50:20.820 I'm happy to be corrected,

00:50:21.960 obviously,

00:50:22.740 is that when the decision

00:50:24.760 was made

00:50:25.460 to deinstitutionalize people,

00:50:27.420 that is to say,

00:50:28.380 close the mental asylums 0.92

00:50:29.700 and basically let people

00:50:31.500 live their life

00:50:33.460 whatever way they can

00:50:34.320 with mental illness,

00:50:35.620 that became a big part

00:50:36.820 of the problem.

00:50:37.300 How much of a problem

00:50:38.060 do you think that is

00:50:38.840 and how much of this

00:50:40.620 can be solved

00:50:41.240 by creating facilities

00:50:42.460 where people

00:50:42.960 who are not mentally well

00:50:44.280 can be given

00:50:44.980 the help they need

00:50:45.900 instead of like,

00:50:46.740 hey, you're free,

00:50:47.560 this is America,

00:50:48.140 go and live on the street.

00:50:48.960 Yeah.

00:50:49.320 I definitely think

00:50:50.200 that played a big role

00:50:51.400 in the problem.

00:50:53.260 One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest

00:50:54.320 came out in,

00:50:55.460 I don't know,

00:50:55.840 1976 or something like that.

00:50:57.820 And rightfully so,

00:50:59.500 it sort of enraged

00:51:01.240 a lot of people

00:51:01.780 that this could possibly,

00:51:03.280 not that it's a real story,

00:51:04.520 but that story's happened.

00:51:06.500 Of course,

00:51:07.040 some people have ended up

00:51:07.980 in mental institutions

00:51:08.740 that shouldn't have been there.

00:51:11.220 This was really,

00:51:12.000 Reagan did this.

00:51:12.880 Reagan did this

00:51:14.000 as governor of California

00:51:15.000 as sort of like a deal

00:51:16.580 with the libertarian left

00:51:19.420 of California.

00:51:20.240 This was a freedom issue

00:51:21.180 and he sort of cut this deal.

00:51:22.700 So, of course,

00:51:23.600 he got something out of the deal

00:51:24.900 by cutting the budget.

00:51:26.220 That's what he wanted to do

00:51:27.280 and then they got something

00:51:28.100 out of the deal

00:51:28.540 by increasing freedoms

00:51:30.520 for people.

00:51:32.060 And then, you know,

00:51:32.920 here we are 30 years later

00:51:34.100 or 40 years later

00:51:35.400 or 50 years later,

00:51:37.140 I don't even know.

00:51:38.100 But, you know,

00:51:39.360 now there's really no place

00:51:40.480 for these people to go.

00:51:41.560 And, you know,

00:51:42.720 when I was out there

00:51:43.380 and I was on meth

00:51:43.960 and I was going crazy,

00:51:45.380 you know,

00:51:45.620 I went to mental institutions.

00:51:46.720 They take you for three days

00:51:47.900 and then they let you loose.

00:51:49.080 I don't even think

00:51:49.760 they're taking you

00:51:50.320 for three days anymore.

00:51:52.100 This is an issue.

00:51:53.960 It seems like people

00:51:54.500 have gotten crazier

00:51:55.280 due to the lower quality

00:51:56.580 of meth.

00:51:57.660 Meth is very low quality

00:51:58.820 right now.

00:51:59.220 It's very cheap.

00:52:00.400 It's made in... 0.77

00:52:00.960 We used to make it in America

00:52:02.120 and it was pretty good.

00:52:03.600 You know?

00:52:04.420 You're sounding like Trump.

00:52:05.840 Yeah.

00:52:06.620 It was the greatest.

00:52:08.100 Not my words.

00:52:09.820 I mean, you know,

00:52:10.840 meth is terrible.

00:52:11.560 No one should do meth.

00:52:12.660 Even great meth,

00:52:13.620 people shouldn't do it.

00:52:14.460 But meth,

00:52:16.100 you know,

00:52:16.500 you used to kind of...

00:52:17.380 You used to be able

00:52:17.960 to somewhat, you know,

00:52:19.140 function.

00:52:19.560 You'd start to go crazy

00:52:20.380 after like three days

00:52:21.320 or something like that.

00:52:22.140 But meth now,

00:52:22.760 you take a hit 1.00

00:52:23.340 and you're just crazy. 1.00

00:52:24.180 And it's like $20 1.00

00:52:24.880 in eight ball.

00:52:26.700 You know,

00:52:26.940 not that that means

00:52:27.720 anything to you guys.

00:52:28.880 But it's gotten very cheap.

00:52:31.060 And people are going insane.

00:52:33.420 And people have the right

00:52:35.700 to be insane.

00:52:36.620 You know,

00:52:36.820 I believe people have

00:52:37.480 the right to do drugs.

00:52:38.360 I mean,

00:52:38.560 I think if you have

00:52:39.240 your little apartment

00:52:40.040 and you want to do drugs

00:52:40.940 in your apartment,

00:52:41.660 do drugs.

00:52:42.480 But if you're smoking fentanyl

00:52:44.340 on the train

00:52:45.120 around children,

00:52:46.080 I mean,

00:52:46.340 that's not a freedom issue.

00:52:47.720 That's almost like

00:52:49.660 a civil rights issue

00:52:50.440 for the people on the train.

00:52:51.420 You know,

00:52:51.820 they don't want to

00:52:52.220 inhale fentanyl.

00:52:54.100 So we're sort of living

00:52:55.680 in this age

00:52:58.260 where,

00:52:58.640 yeah,

00:52:59.100 we are feeling the effects

00:53:00.060 of closing down

00:53:00.880 those mental institutions.

00:53:01.920 I don't really understand

00:53:03.060 the path,

00:53:03.600 how we get back

00:53:04.240 to creating those

00:53:06.400 and sort of changing

00:53:07.200 the laws

00:53:07.640 and being able

00:53:08.800 to mandate some people

00:53:09.660 to these facilities.

00:53:11.360 Do you think

00:53:11.620 this is the action

00:53:14.600 over reaction

00:53:15.360 over reaction

00:53:16.020 over reaction

00:53:16.740 sequence playing itself out?

00:53:18.440 Like you talked about,

00:53:19.840 there would have been

00:53:20.500 a time when people

00:53:21.360 were very harsh

00:53:22.240 on these things,

00:53:23.500 very harsh on people 0.73

00:53:24.840 with mental illness,

00:53:25.620 you know, 0.96

00:53:25.940 like the stuff

00:53:26.760 that used to happen

00:53:27.380 in mental asylum

00:53:28.060 is like horrific.

00:53:29.600 Yeah.

00:53:30.000 So the reaction is,

00:53:31.500 the over reaction is,

00:53:32.620 we've got to have

00:53:33.300 more freedom,

00:53:34.380 right?

00:53:34.740 So then you end up

00:53:35.680 with a position

00:53:36.240 that we've ended up in

00:53:37.140 and hopefully

00:53:38.040 there is a move

00:53:39.420 to A,

00:53:40.260 recriminalize crime.

00:53:41.340 I mean,

00:53:41.460 that's just insane,

00:53:42.380 right?

00:53:42.560 The fact that you

00:53:43.180 can commit crimes,

00:53:43.980 you can steal things

00:53:44.760 without being punished

00:53:45.560 for it.

00:53:46.640 And hopefully

00:53:47.180 we can now move back

00:53:48.220 to a kind of

00:53:49.020 more sensible

00:53:49.800 middle position

00:53:50.540 where it's like

00:53:51.260 crimes are crimes

00:53:52.300 but we aren't

00:53:53.520 going to throw you

00:53:54.260 in an institution

00:53:55.120 and throw away

00:53:55.700 the key.

00:53:56.580 Yeah.

00:53:57.300 Do you think

00:53:58.060 that's likely

00:53:59.020 or are you

00:54:00.480 seeing something else?

00:54:02.360 All right.

00:54:03.260 Bit of an unexpected

00:54:04.180 one for you

00:54:04.880 but this actually

00:54:05.980 got my attention.

00:54:07.480 The other day

00:54:08.060 I was scrolling online

00:54:09.240 and came across

00:54:10.280 this video

00:54:10.860 from none other

00:54:11.700 than Chuck Norris.

00:54:12.980 Yes,

00:54:13.900 that Chuck Norris.

00:54:15.200 He's in his 80s now

00:54:16.420 and according to him

00:54:17.400 he still feels

00:54:18.520 like he's in his 50s.

00:54:20.140 And honestly,

00:54:20.780 watching it

00:54:21.360 I could believe it.

00:54:23.020 The video goes through

00:54:23.960 three specific foods

00:54:25.500 he says you should avoid

00:54:27.000 like the plague

00:54:27.860 and a few other things

00:54:29.380 he's doing

00:54:29.840 to keep in shape

00:54:30.660 and stay sharp.

00:54:31.960 I was skeptical

00:54:32.740 at first.

00:54:33.920 The stuff he suggests

00:54:35.100 is genuinely simple

00:54:36.360 and actually makes

00:54:37.400 a lot of sense.

00:54:38.540 If you're interested

00:54:39.340 in health,

00:54:40.160 energy

00:54:40.500 or just curious

00:54:41.680 what Chuck Norris

00:54:42.780 swears by at 80 plus

00:54:44.340 this is worth your time.

00:54:46.700 Watch the video now

00:54:47.580 at chuckdefense.com

00:54:49.580 slash trigger.

00:54:51.440 That's chuckdefense.com

00:54:53.680 slash trigger.

00:54:55.180 And we put the link

00:54:56.100 in the description below

00:54:57.340 to make it easy.

00:54:59.320 Well, that's definitely

00:55:00.260 the way we need to go.

00:55:01.480 Now, is it likely?

00:55:02.500 I'm not sure.

00:55:03.280 We're already sort of

00:55:04.180 seeing the overreaction.

00:55:05.820 I mean, even in California

00:55:07.160 you know, 70% of people

00:55:08.540 voted for Prop 36

00:55:09.520 which Governor Newsom

00:55:11.280 did not endorse

00:55:12.040 and Kamala Harris

00:55:12.900 did not endorse

00:55:13.580 and it turned into

00:55:14.520 a 70-30 issue

00:55:15.880 in the most liberal state

00:55:17.660 in America.

00:55:18.260 And what was the proposition?

00:55:19.660 Proposition 36

00:55:20.480 was essentially

00:55:21.220 the recriminalization

00:55:22.360 of crime.

00:55:23.040 I mean, especially

00:55:23.500 retail theft.

00:55:25.380 Now we're,

00:55:25.880 so it's like

00:55:26.360 the people want it.

00:55:27.760 I mean, the people voted

00:55:28.620 I think 65% in San Francisco

00:55:30.740 to tie welfare benefits

00:55:33.440 to drug testing.

00:55:34.820 In San Francisco,

00:55:35.580 the most liberal city

00:55:36.340 in the world,

00:55:37.000 the people overwhelmingly

00:55:38.660 voted for tying

00:55:40.220 a, you know,

00:55:41.360 negative drug test

00:55:42.160 in order to receive

00:55:43.180 your welfare.

00:55:45.320 We're seeing the overreaction

00:55:46.580 but we're not seeing

00:55:47.240 the politicians

00:55:48.060 really reacting

00:55:49.620 to the will of the people.

00:55:52.360 And, you know,

00:55:53.860 it's already bit a lot 1.00

00:55:55.080 of them in the ass. 0.99

00:55:57.040 I don't really know 1.00

00:55:57.920 what's going to happen

00:55:58.460 but we're also seeing,

00:55:59.580 you know, like in places

00:56:00.420 like San Francisco,

00:56:02.420 they voted out the DA.

00:56:03.940 They voted in more

00:56:04.940 of a moderate DA

00:56:05.760 and then we're running

00:56:06.740 into more roadblocks

00:56:07.540 where we see activist judges

00:56:08.760 just not charging people.

00:56:10.220 So we got the DA

00:56:11.340 but now we're like,

00:56:12.820 okay, now we have

00:56:13.300 to get the judges.

00:56:13.940 When are the judges

00:56:14.520 up for re-election?

00:56:15.360 Now we have to wait

00:56:15.920 another two years.

00:56:17.380 Will people just

00:56:18.060 eventually overreact

00:56:18.880 and say, okay,

00:56:19.600 we're just going to elect

00:56:20.640 Hitler or something? 0.70

00:56:22.620 You know, like,

00:56:23.160 are we just going to elect

00:56:24.080 the guy that's going to

00:56:24.920 be the most extreme

00:56:26.340 because we're not getting

00:56:27.440 anywhere with these

00:56:28.080 like little moderate steps?

00:56:29.220 So it would really

00:56:29.980 benefit everybody

00:56:31.240 if politicians

00:56:32.100 started listening to

00:56:33.240 the will of the people.

00:56:35.660 Jared, this is a,

00:56:36.800 how can I put it,

00:56:38.760 a provocative question

00:56:39.760 but I think it's one

00:56:40.780 that needs asking.

00:56:42.560 When I look,

00:56:43.780 and I love America,

00:56:44.640 but when I come here,

00:56:45.700 I'm always shocked

00:56:46.700 and horrified

00:56:47.520 and depressed

00:56:49.120 by what I see

00:56:50.800 when it comes

00:56:51.320 to the homelessness.

00:56:53.220 Is that just a symptom

00:56:54.540 of a society

00:56:55.400 that's sick in some way?

00:56:58.660 Yeah, we got some

00:56:59.520 major problems.

00:57:00.260 It, I love America.

00:57:02.940 You know, I love this country.

00:57:04.200 This country,

00:57:04.480 my family came here

00:57:05.600 from Ukraine.

00:57:07.380 You know, that's

00:57:07.780 where they came from

00:57:08.460 and they built

00:57:09.160 a beautiful life.

00:57:10.860 My great-grandparents,

00:57:12.180 my father with

00:57:14.100 high school education

00:57:15.260 was able to make

00:57:16.340 a very good living

00:57:17.080 as a blue-collar

00:57:18.440 union worker

00:57:19.080 and, you know,

00:57:19.920 owned a house

00:57:20.420 by the time he was 30

00:57:21.340 and was able

00:57:22.400 to support a family 0.94

00:57:23.260 although he was a crackhead 0.99

00:57:24.860 and a heroin addict. 0.98

00:57:25.600 But, you know,

00:57:26.340 my dad as a heroin

00:57:27.560 and a crack addict

00:57:28.200 was able to own a house

00:57:29.160 whereas I can barely

00:57:30.860 rent an apartment.

00:57:32.420 You know?

00:57:33.580 So, we're seeing

00:57:35.100 a loss of hope.

00:57:36.600 You know,

00:57:37.020 my generation,

00:57:38.260 I think,

00:57:38.720 is looking at the future

00:57:40.380 grimly.

00:57:41.720 You know,

00:57:42.000 we don't see a lot

00:57:43.080 of opportunity

00:57:43.720 out of this.

00:57:45.800 We,

00:57:46.640 I think there is

00:57:47.360 just a loss of hope.

00:57:48.260 I mean, a lot,

00:57:48.840 my generation went

00:57:49.660 to college in droves

00:57:50.880 and came out

00:57:51.580 with really

00:57:52.380 not a lot of opportunities

00:57:54.160 and I'm not saying

00:57:55.060 let's make fake

00:57:55.740 opportunities for them,

00:57:56.800 you know,

00:57:57.000 but it's like

00:57:57.660 we were sort of

00:57:58.640 sold a lie about

00:57:59.800 and that's our fault,

00:58:01.260 you know,

00:58:01.420 we all got liberal arts

00:58:02.280 degrees and we were

00:58:03.120 basically worthless.

00:58:05.180 So, there's just

00:58:05.920 a general loss of hope

00:58:07.020 and the leaders,

00:58:10.100 I mean,

00:58:10.540 they're like,

00:58:12.100 I can't name one leader

00:58:13.380 that's like,

00:58:14.500 gives me any sort of hope.

00:58:16.560 You know?

00:58:16.800 And that's a real issue

00:58:18.540 because it doesn't matter

00:58:20.140 how bad things get,

00:58:21.420 if you've got hope,

00:58:22.880 you're probably

00:58:23.300 going to be okay.

00:58:24.340 Yeah.

00:58:24.520 The moment the real

00:58:25.560 darkness sets in

00:58:26.560 is when you see

00:58:27.380 no hope,

00:58:27.940 there is no light.

00:58:29.060 That's when you lead

00:58:29.940 to despair

00:58:30.560 and despair

00:58:31.280 leads you to do

00:58:32.380 some very,

00:58:33.100 very dark things

00:58:33.880 and dark places.

00:58:35.320 Yeah.

00:58:35.620 We need to create

00:58:36.380 opportunity.

00:58:37.100 I mean,

00:58:37.320 the reason why

00:58:38.360 I was able to,

00:58:39.180 you know,

00:58:39.680 get off the streets

00:58:40.600 and stay sober

00:58:41.280 was because I saw

00:58:42.300 some kind of path

00:58:44.080 to self-sufficiency

00:58:45.040 and self-esteem,

00:58:46.880 you know,

00:58:47.580 with the carpentry stuff

00:58:49.160 and I was building

00:58:49.880 and I was,

00:58:50.540 you know,

00:58:50.680 I was building America.

00:58:51.860 You know,

00:58:52.220 I was like building things

00:58:53.320 and contributing to society

00:58:54.680 and we need to figure out

00:58:57.120 how to provide that

00:58:57.860 to a larger pool of people,

00:58:59.760 you know?

00:59:00.200 Not everyone can be

00:59:01.080 as lucky as me

00:59:01.720 and like wake up

00:59:02.320 missing body parts

00:59:03.200 and get like shooken,

00:59:04.820 you know,

00:59:05.080 awake from this nightmare.

00:59:06.860 A lot of people

00:59:07.720 are just going to wake up

00:59:08.800 or they're not going to wake up.

00:59:10.260 They're just going to die. 0.52

00:59:11.400 Yeah.

00:59:11.940 And, you know,

00:59:12.560 you said, you know,

00:59:13.440 about liberal arts degrees.

00:59:16.360 I really have a lot of empathy

00:59:17.820 for people of your generation

00:59:19.200 and our generation.

00:59:19.980 Look, I did a liberal arts degree

00:59:21.440 and I was told

00:59:22.720 that that was a thing to do

00:59:24.040 and you need to go to university.

00:59:25.740 You're 18 years old.

00:59:26.840 What do you know about life?

00:59:28.040 All your life,

00:59:28.900 you're told by your parents

00:59:30.200 what to do,

00:59:30.940 how to do it,

00:59:31.620 when to do it,

00:59:32.420 or your guardians

00:59:33.240 and your teachers.

00:59:34.520 So why wouldn't you follow them

00:59:36.020 at that point?

00:59:37.000 Why would you choose

00:59:37.900 to reject them?

00:59:39.640 Yeah, I,

00:59:40.460 listen,

00:59:40.880 my dad didn't go to college.

00:59:42.840 He made,

00:59:43.060 he was making $51 an hour

00:59:44.660 as a carpenter in 1998

00:59:46.240 and he wouldn't let me

00:59:48.580 touch his tools.

00:59:49.620 He was like,

00:59:50.120 you can't go down

00:59:50.800 this horrible path

00:59:51.700 of making $51 an hour.

00:59:53.480 You know,

00:59:53.700 you have to go to college

00:59:54.720 where you'll make $30 an hour

00:59:56.420 in 30 years.

00:59:57.600 You know,

00:59:57.780 he didn't know that.

00:59:58.480 He just assumed that,

00:59:59.800 well,

00:59:59.880 if I make $51,

01:00:01.380 people at college

01:00:02.020 must make $500 an hour.

01:00:03.800 Yeah.

01:00:04.300 You know,

01:00:04.600 he,

01:00:04.780 but he was uneducated.

01:00:06.060 He just didn't,

01:00:07.240 he didn't know,

01:00:08.160 you know,

01:00:09.020 it's just a very funny

01:00:10.540 situation.

01:00:11.400 Well,

01:00:11.520 listen,

01:00:11.720 brother,

01:00:12.000 it's been great

01:00:12.500 having you on

01:00:13.140 and it sounds weird,

01:00:16.220 but I'm really proud

01:00:16.820 of you,

01:00:17.100 man.

01:00:17.380 Thank you.

01:00:17.740 It's so great

01:00:18.500 to see you well

01:00:19.420 and after that kind

01:00:20.500 of journey

01:00:20.920 and you spreading

01:00:22.020 your message,

01:00:22.400 I think it's really

01:00:22.960 important because

01:00:23.860 one of the things

01:00:24.960 that really worries me,

01:00:26.600 you know,

01:00:27.760 and I think it's partly

01:00:28.720 because of the way

01:00:29.520 America is structurally

01:00:30.600 is you guys

01:00:31.920 don't walk a lot.

01:00:33.220 Yeah.

01:00:33.780 You drive.

01:00:34.800 And so all the people

01:00:36.380 who have money,

01:00:37.740 all the people

01:00:38.260 who have power,

01:00:39.200 all the people

01:00:39.680 who have influence,

01:00:40.460 those DAs and judges

01:00:41.860 and politicians

01:00:42.620 and whatever,

01:00:43.640 they can just drive 1.00

01:00:44.720 past the shit 1.00

01:00:45.500 and they don't see it. 1.00

01:00:46.860 But for us,

01:00:48.120 when we walk around

01:00:49.040 in America,

01:00:50.280 like we would do,

01:00:51.440 our episode with Joe Rogan

01:00:53.000 will be out

01:00:53.440 by the time this comes out.

01:00:54.700 We talked about this

01:00:55.660 as like just walking

01:00:56.800 down the streets in D.C. 0.97

01:00:58.260 and fully mentally ill, 0.97

01:01:00.720 drug addicted people 0.86

01:01:01.660 are just there

01:01:02.720 making their own lives

01:01:04.260 hell

01:01:04.520 and everyone else's

01:01:05.360 lives hell.

01:01:06.300 And all of that's going on

01:01:07.440 but I think it's very easy,

01:01:09.040 especially in this country

01:01:09.980 just for that reason alone,

01:01:11.720 for people not to see it

01:01:12.920 and not to talk about it.

01:01:14.360 And you've been there

01:01:15.080 and you,

01:01:15.740 and you know,

01:01:16.960 when someone says

01:01:17.960 we need to recriminalize crime,

01:01:19.960 everyone goes,

01:01:20.280 yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:01:20.740 But when you're talking about it,

01:01:21.980 I think it lands

01:01:22.660 in a different way.

01:01:23.760 So I'm really excited

01:01:24.820 about the fact

01:01:25.500 that you are now

01:01:26.160 getting your voice out there

01:01:27.340 and spreading your thoughts on this

01:01:28.820 because it's really,

01:01:29.560 really important.

01:01:30.140 So thanks.

01:01:31.120 I hope everybody gets

01:01:32.020 a crooked smile

01:01:33.060 and reads it

01:01:33.640 and I hope people

01:01:34.480 who have influence

01:01:35.380 hear that message.

01:01:36.980 It's very important.

01:01:38.160 Well, thank you so much.

01:01:38.880 It's been an honor

01:01:39.440 and I just really appreciate

01:01:40.640 this opportunity.

01:01:41.940 And the final question

01:01:42.920 we end every interview with

01:01:43.980 is what's the one thing

01:01:44.660 we're not talking about

01:01:45.700 that we really should be?

01:01:48.060 Before Jared answers

01:01:49.080 the final question,

01:01:50.020 at the end of the interview,

01:01:51.120 make sure you click the link

01:01:52.180 in the description,

01:01:53.480 go to our sub stack

01:01:54.400 where you will see this.

01:01:55.500 Do you think California

01:01:56.860 and other places like it

01:01:58.320 are just too soft,

01:01:59.900 allowing homelessness

01:02:00.760 by not scraping tents,

01:02:02.260 etc. away

01:02:02.820 and jailing people

01:02:03.620 for small crimes?

01:02:05.220 Is social media

01:02:06.160 kind of a drug

01:02:06.920 that the young minds

01:02:08.280 get hooked on?

01:02:09.120 Clickbait and outraged clips

01:02:10.580 are a continuous dopamine hit.

01:02:12.400 I mean, people are talking

01:02:15.100 about this a little bit,

01:02:15.820 but I think it needs

01:02:16.320 to be taken a lot more serious.

01:02:18.820 The labor market

01:02:19.680 over the next five years,

01:02:21.320 it just seems like

01:02:23.160 I've been playing around

01:02:24.000 with some AI stuff

01:02:25.000 and I just really think

01:02:26.080 we need to actually

01:02:26.920 formulate a real plan.

01:02:28.860 I mean, I know people

01:02:29.440 talk about UBI,

01:02:30.400 but I think there is a situation

01:02:32.320 where we just need to prepare

01:02:33.920 for the worst.

01:02:35.060 What are we going to do?

01:02:36.020 What does society look like

01:02:36.980 if 50% of people

01:02:37.820 are out of work

01:02:38.400 and 50% aren't?

01:02:40.200 Where's this go?

01:02:41.940 I basically just hear people

01:02:43.400 mumbling about UBI.

01:02:45.160 I don't know

01:02:46.060 if that's the solution.

01:02:46.840 I don't know what we do,

01:02:48.360 but it seems to be something

01:02:50.200 that I keep obsessing about

01:02:51.920 as I sort of figure out

01:02:52.900 what I'm going to do

01:02:53.360 with my life.

01:02:53.880 Well, let me ask you

01:02:54.520 a question on that

01:02:55.240 since you bring up

01:02:55.920 UBI, universal basic income,

01:02:57.740 which is the idea

01:02:58.460 that as automation

01:03:00.000 and AI and robots take over,

01:03:02.680 there's not going to be

01:03:03.240 that many jobs.

01:03:03.960 There's going to be

01:03:04.440 a lot of wealth created

01:03:05.640 by AI and robots

01:03:06.860 and whatever.

01:03:07.580 So what we need to do

01:03:08.360 is we distribute it

01:03:09.300 and give it to people

01:03:10.220 as a form of like

01:03:11.060 a monthly paycheck

01:03:11.840 for not actually for work

01:03:13.420 and just, you know,

01:03:14.040 we've got loads of money,

01:03:14.960 let's give it to people.

01:03:15.760 Yeah.

01:03:16.460 And I always wonder about that

01:03:17.960 because when you tell your story,

01:03:19.640 I'm not hearing

01:03:20.940 I got clean and straight

01:03:23.160 and decided to like focus

01:03:24.740 on my life

01:03:25.700 and make my life better

01:03:26.620 when someone gave me money.

01:03:28.820 You got that clarity

01:03:30.920 when A, you had time 1.00

01:03:32.740 to be away from that shit, 1.00

01:03:34.220 when you couldn't get drugs, 1.00

01:03:35.580 and B, when you had something

01:03:37.580 in your life

01:03:38.220 that gave you purpose

01:03:39.260 and meaning.

01:03:40.120 Yeah.

01:03:40.520 Which I think

01:03:41.100 is so important to people.

01:03:42.400 So I guess

01:03:42.880 what I'm wondering is

01:03:44.280 when you were living

01:03:45.740 on Skid Row,

01:03:46.940 if someone came in

01:03:48.200 and gave you $1,000 a month,

01:03:51.140 wouldn't you just

01:03:52.040 stay on Skid Row forever

01:03:53.620 taking those drugs?

01:03:55.280 Yeah.

01:03:55.860 This is like

01:03:57.220 a giant thing

01:03:58.720 that people talk about.

01:03:59.680 Like what if we just

01:04:00.280 give them money?

01:04:01.360 First of all,

01:04:01.820 I got money.

01:04:02.480 I got food stamps

01:04:03.300 and I got general relief.

01:04:04.440 I got about $5.50 a month.

01:04:07.900 I spent it within three days,

01:04:09.980 two or three days.

01:04:11.440 And then people ask,

01:04:12.460 well, what if we gave them housing?

01:04:14.840 I got housing

01:04:16.060 while I was on Skid Row.

01:04:17.260 I got kicked out of housing twice

01:04:18.720 for getting blood everywhere

01:04:19.820 and causing a ruckus.

01:04:21.060 But the housing

01:04:22.600 did not help me get off drugs.

01:04:24.460 And a lot of people

01:04:25.460 would get housing

01:04:26.040 and actually sell it.

01:04:27.020 Now that means

01:04:27.820 rent it out to like a pimp

01:04:28.940 or rent it out

01:04:29.920 to their drug dealer,

01:04:31.260 you will take anything

01:04:32.760 given to you

01:04:33.400 and try to convert it

01:04:34.220 into a way to get drugs

01:04:35.320 if you are terminally

01:04:36.920 addicted to drugs.

01:04:37.940 So, you know,

01:04:39.440 but giving people UBI

01:04:40.740 in general,

01:04:41.640 you know,

01:04:42.020 it could go either way.

01:04:43.160 It could give people

01:04:43.860 enough time

01:04:44.340 to actually find that passion

01:04:45.560 and that purpose in life.

01:04:46.920 Or if you're already

01:04:47.800 sort of prone to doing drugs

01:04:49.420 and things like that,

01:04:50.020 it could create a crisis.

01:04:51.240 I'm not sure.

01:04:51.980 We're going to have to,

01:04:53.400 I guess we'll see

01:04:54.120 how that plays out.

01:04:55.300 Well, I just think

01:04:56.060 what's true

01:04:56.840 of what you're saying

01:04:57.840 as an addict

01:04:58.320 is also true

01:04:58.920 of all human beings.

01:05:00.160 But when you don't have meaning

01:05:01.800 and you don't have purpose,

01:05:03.800 having more money

01:05:04.840 just gives you more leverage

01:05:06.220 to do things

01:05:06.960 that are bad for you.

01:05:08.700 Yes.

01:05:09.260 Yeah.

01:05:09.600 So it's like,

01:05:10.120 do we incentivize people?

01:05:11.320 Do we open up like

01:05:12.060 art studios everywhere

01:05:13.100 and, you know,

01:05:14.040 axe throwing

01:05:14.600 and, you know,

01:05:15.460 make a clay pot over,

01:05:17.220 you know,

01:05:17.460 like do we open up

01:05:18.220 all these arts and crafts stuff

01:05:19.280 so people can get started

01:05:21.120 with hobbies?

01:05:21.800 I mean,

01:05:21.960 we're going to have

01:05:22.420 to really try to,

01:05:24.120 because people,

01:05:24.880 a lot of people

01:05:25.520 will take the path

01:05:26.400 of least resistance

01:05:27.040 just like drug addicts

01:05:27.920 and they will lock

01:05:28.560 into Netflix

01:05:29.160 and that can become

01:05:31.160 a very dark future.

01:05:32.400 Well,

01:05:32.580 the reason I'm honing in

01:05:34.620 on this is like,

01:05:35.220 I know,

01:05:35.580 Francis and I,

01:05:36.320 we both have addictive

01:05:37.060 personalities in different ways,

01:05:38.620 right?

01:05:39.040 For me,

01:05:40.100 work and having a job

01:05:41.800 and then family,

01:05:42.780 that's kind of where

01:05:43.620 I channel that energy.

01:05:45.320 Yeah.

01:05:45.460 But if you create a world

01:05:47.340 in which I don't need

01:05:48.380 to go to work

01:05:49.260 and no one around me

01:05:50.760 goes to work,

01:05:52.060 I am not sure

01:05:52.940 I come out of that situation

01:05:54.560 a better person.

01:05:55.860 I really am not.

01:05:57.500 Well,

01:05:57.860 I'm not that good

01:05:58.440 at anything,

01:05:58.860 so I don't know

01:05:59.500 what kind of hobby

01:06:00.140 I'd take up.

01:06:00.840 I mean,

01:06:01.000 I'm not like

01:06:01.540 exceptionally good

01:06:02.260 at drawing

01:06:02.800 or, you know,

01:06:03.580 playing basketball

01:06:04.280 or anything.

01:06:04.880 I don't know where,

01:06:05.800 I mean,

01:06:06.060 I'd figure something out,

01:06:06.960 but a lot of people,

01:06:07.760 yeah,

01:06:07.960 I don't know if,

01:06:08.660 I think it could be detrimental.

01:06:10.500 Yeah.

01:06:10.760 You know,

01:06:11.180 particularly a lot of people

01:06:13.400 and understandably so

01:06:15.200 find a great deal of meaning

01:06:17.000 and men in particular

01:06:18.260 of having a family

01:06:19.640 doing a job

01:06:20.960 that actually

01:06:21.580 they don't really like.

01:06:23.340 Yeah.

01:06:23.520 You know,

01:06:23.780 it's a grind,

01:06:24.620 it's a bit miserable,

01:06:25.700 but they get a hell of a lot

01:06:26.920 of pride

01:06:27.280 and deservedly so

01:06:28.320 in putting food on the table

01:06:29.840 for their family

01:06:30.540 and you take that away from them,

01:06:33.820 then you take away pride

01:06:35.020 and self-respect

01:06:36.580 and men in particular,

01:06:40.040 and I'm saying this,

01:06:41.340 from my own experience,

01:06:42.840 I wouldn't cope very well with that

01:06:44.220 if at all.

01:06:45.020 I would go down

01:06:45.780 a very, very dark path.

01:06:47.800 Yeah,

01:06:48.180 I totally agree.

01:06:48.960 I mean,

01:06:49.120 we're seeing it.

01:06:49.900 I mean,

01:06:50.120 you can go to San Francisco,

01:06:51.500 there's not a lot of smiles.

01:06:52.880 I mean,

01:06:53.100 there's a lot of people

01:06:54.580 that can make just enough

01:06:56.200 to barely survive

01:06:57.080 that no chance of like,

01:06:58.520 you know,

01:06:58.800 having a wife

01:06:59.320 that doesn't have to work

01:07:00.700 or being able to afford a kid.

01:07:02.220 I mean,

01:07:02.640 no,

01:07:02.880 there of course are people like that,

01:07:04.280 but the majority,

01:07:05.340 you know,

01:07:06.040 are people that,

01:07:07.060 you know,

01:07:07.300 are my age

01:07:08.100 that like couldn't even dream

01:07:09.560 of having a family.

01:07:10.320 You know,

01:07:11.900 what are we going to do about that?

01:07:13.020 I don't know.

01:07:13.900 Yeah.

01:07:14.220 Brother,

01:07:14.740 like I say,

01:07:15.260 great to have you on.

01:07:15.960 I appreciate your time.

01:07:17.120 Head on over to Substack

01:07:18.080 where we ask Jared your questions.

01:07:19.720 If drugs were legalized

01:07:22.840 or re-legalized even,

01:07:24.480 that would immediately

01:07:25.360 take the criminal element

01:07:26.680 out of it.

01:07:27.500 Make drugs cheaper,

01:07:28.460 make drugs safer

01:07:29.240 and make lower dose drug taking,

01:07:31.140 i.e. opium smoking,

01:07:32.240 more likely.

01:07:32.940 What do you think?

01:07:33.420 We'll be right back.

01:07:41.660 We'll be right back

01:07:43.700 with

01:07:44.020 us!

01:07:44.920 We'll be right back.

01:07:45.600 We'll be right back.

01:07:45.980 We'll be right back.

01:07:46.120 We'll be right back.

01:07:46.340 We'll be right back.

01:07:46.980 We'll be right back.

01:07:48.060 We'll be right back.

01:07:48.540 Bye-bye.

01:07:53.780 Bye-bye.

01:07:54.320 Bye-bye.

TRIGGERnometry - July 13, 2025

I Spent Years on Skid Row, Homeless & Addicted - Jared Klickstein

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript