TRIGGERnometry - I Was a Woke Activist… Not Anymore! - Amala Ekpunobi

00:00:00.240 But what about you?

00:00:01.820 Like, you've got a white mom 0.99

00:00:03.740 and you believe that all white people are inherent. 0.98

00:00:06.320 So your mom is inherently racist. 1.00

00:00:08.720 Yeah, I mean, I can tell you

00:00:11.260 I didn't look into these ideas too deeply.

00:00:13.900 I can definitely say that.

00:00:16.460 Which is why they fell apart

00:00:18.100 whenever I was pressed on them.

00:00:20.060 I think I would have found a way to blame it

00:00:21.720 on the people who I disagree with.

00:00:23.760 I really think I would have managed.

00:00:26.300 I really think I would have managed.

00:00:28.020 I was really good at just running my mouth and twisting words.

00:00:33.840 If you look into leftism and you look into it deeply, and especially identity politics,

00:00:38.200 you will find that there is no space to be whoever it is that you want to be.

00:00:41.820 There is no space to think whatever it is that you want to think.

00:00:44.900 And in fact, they are hellbent on pushing people into boxes.

00:00:49.600 I felt no greater racism than going on the internet and saying I am a conservative.

00:00:55.680 It was unbelievable how quickly people jumped to me and said, well, you're a female. 1.00

00:01:00.980 You couldn't possibly be conservative. 0.95

00:01:02.560 You're half black. 1.00

00:01:03.500 You couldn't possibly be conservative. 0.98

00:01:05.180 This is the box that is created for those identity markers.

00:01:07.920 And we must jam you into that box.

00:01:10.540 And if you do not fit, you are alienated.

00:01:12.940 You are no longer a part of the club.

00:01:14.860 If you want to really experience or get as close to the Jim Crow experience as possible, 0.96

00:01:21.660 be a black person that comes out as a conservative. 0.94

00:01:23.620 and you will experience it. 0.99

00:01:35.660 Hello and welcome to Trigonometry.

00:01:38.600 I'm Francis Foster.

00:01:39.920 I'm Constantin Kissing.

00:01:40.920 And this is a show for you

00:01:42.380 if you want honest conversations

00:01:44.200 with fascinating people.

00:01:46.720 Our brilliant guest today

00:01:47.780 is a fellow YouTuber, Amalia Penobi.

00:01:50.060 Welcome to Trigonometry.

00:01:51.520 It's good to be here, guys.

00:01:53.340 It's great to have you on. I've been trying to do this for a while. It didn't happen,

00:01:57.000 then happened. Now we're here. Anyway, it's great to have you on the show.

00:02:00.120 Thanks for coming on. Before we get into the conversation itself, we always ask our guests,

00:02:05.680 what is your story? How did you get here? You've had quite an interesting story,

00:02:10.980 even though you're very young. So tell everybody what that's been like.

00:02:14.160 Sure. Yeah. So I'm Amala. I'm 22 years old, and I'm currently working as a podcaster and social

00:02:21.480 media content maker for PragerU and talking about conservative or at least right of center

00:02:27.880 values on a daily basis. And I got here by virtue of actually being a reformed woke leftist. I

00:02:35.500 grew up in a very small town in rural conservative Florida and happened to be raised by a single

00:02:41.840 mother who is a leftist herself and works for the political left. So growing up with her and

00:02:48.200 with her influence, I was really deeply entrenched in woke ideology and thought that the best

00:02:54.720 case of action that I should pursue in my life was to be an activist. So I graduated high school,

00:03:01.080 started working for the very same organization that my mother was at as a youth organizer. So

00:03:05.840 essentially going around and finding other young people who are maybe disillusioned with the state

00:03:11.060 of America and drawing them down the pipeline of wokeism. And I did that for about a year before

00:03:18.920 realizing this is not the ideology for me. I was finding a lot of hypocrisy. I was feeling that a

00:03:26.520 lot of the things that I was doing were a bit too radical and ended up leaving that organization,

00:03:31.760 sort of searching for where I laid politically. And that ended up being right of center.

00:03:37.180 and eventually I just started making videos

00:03:39.640 about that transformation in my life in that period

00:03:42.880 and it brought me to where I am now.

00:03:45.080 And one of the interesting things that I read

00:03:47.400 in terms of the research is

00:03:48.900 while you have moved from the left to being right of center,

00:03:53.740 you also, when we saw this where both you and us

00:03:57.760 and a bunch of other people with a Matt Walsh incident

00:04:00.220 where you're quite happy to push back against people

00:04:03.100 who you think are going too far on your own side as well.

00:04:05.640 So is that because you've seen what radicalness does whichever side of the political spectrum it's on?

00:04:12.640 Yes, it's definitely partially that.

00:04:14.940 And it's also that having been a woke leftist and having changed my mind, I have a good idea for what works.

00:04:22.580 And I've tested it in going around to different universities and talking to students who really disagree with everything it is that I stand for and that I have to say.

00:04:31.380 And I found that the best course of action for talking to those sorts of people is, A, trying to understand where they're coming from, and B, not really indulging in those ad hominem attacks that we sometimes want to throw out at people and trying to usher them over to the other end of the spectrum by just giving them facts and trying to meet them where they're at.

00:04:55.180 And I felt with the Matt Walsh video, much like you both did, that something needed to be said because I didn't want that to be a representation of where we are in the fight against gender ideology.

00:05:05.960 And you're very young for someone to be to be on the other side of the political spectrum.

00:05:11.980 Normally it happens in their 30s and their 40s when they start to earn a bit of money and they go, hang on a second.

00:05:17.900 Right. So what was the moment for you? What was your red pill moment? Let's just call it that.

00:05:22.560 Sure. There were many. I say this a lot. There was no specific light bulb moment that really flipped things over for me. It was gradual meeting of just roadblocks when it came to what I was trying to support.

00:05:37.820 And I tried so desperately to hold on to my left-leaning ideology because I had staked so much of my life on it and so much of my identity on it. I even have a black power fist that's tattooed on my arm here that people can see in my other videos.

00:05:52.560 And I got that when I was 16 years old thinking, you know what is brilliant? Let me brand myself

00:06:01.800 with this sort of pseudo religious symbol because I'm never going to deviate from this sort of

00:06:07.560 thinking. But if I could hone in on one moment in particular, when I was working for this

00:06:12.600 organization, we would come together and have meetings. And before every meeting, we do community

00:06:17.680 agreements, which are basically rules that everybody abides by throughout the duration

00:06:22.340 of the conversation. So things like state your pronouns before you speak for the first time,

00:06:27.820 or if someone has a story that is particularly oppressive and sad, let them speak the whole

00:06:34.140 way through, no interrupting. And I had a coworker come up and at the end of her community agreements

00:06:40.220 essentially say that all the white, cisgendered, heterosexual people in the room just shouldn't

00:06:45.440 speak at all during this meeting. It just wasn't their time. They had their time in history and

00:06:50.720 being biracial, I was raised by the white side of my family. So I sort of looked around this room

00:06:56.520 of people who were nodding in agreement and thinking that was the right thing to do. And I

00:07:00.900 just had this little thought that was like, Amala, you're in the wrong room, I think. I think you're

00:07:06.860 in the wrong room and just ended up exploring that further. And now here we are. Do you think

00:07:13.200 part of the problem with the left is if they stuck to the idea of, look, society is unequal,

00:07:18.660 there's rich and there's poor, there's an ever-widening gap between the two. This is

00:07:23.100 clearly unfair. We need to do something to make society fairer economically. You might not have

00:07:29.420 had that moment, and other people might not. Yeah, I think had they stuck to some of the

00:07:38.940 earlier tenets of their ideology, we would be just really in a better place as a society.

00:07:44.640 It seems as though when we look at, I guess, left versus right, if we want to even put it that

00:07:48.660 simply today, they've sort of crossed over each other in a lot of different ways. The left used

00:07:54.980 to be super pro-skepticism. They were pushing pro-equality. They were anti-establishment.

00:08:00.960 And those were the tenets that people really grasped onto. And I think that's an amount of

00:08:05.740 progressivism that every society needs. Progressivism is always welcome and it's

00:08:10.640 necessary to move forward as a pluralistic society. But they sort of just changed and

00:08:16.080 shifted and morphed into something that is completely deviated from what were the original

00:08:20.240 tenets. And that's why a lot of people have problems and they're switching. I think like

00:08:24.580 all of us right now having this conversation, maybe we do have liberal leanings in us. I think

00:08:29.460 everybody does, but what they've become now is just so far from liberal. Well, let's talk about

00:08:35.740 that because you are right off center, Francis, and I didn't even go as far as that. I don't think

00:08:41.300 we're kind of somewhere in the middle trying to work out exactly what we think. But one of the

00:08:46.500 things we've talked a little bit about already is wokeness. And apparently we keep being told

00:08:51.320 that this is a very hard thing to define. In fact, no one who criticizes can define it at all.

00:08:55.740 Do you have a definition of it that you use?

00:09:00.000 Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of different definitions because it takes so many different

00:09:04.340 forms.

00:09:05.020 For me, it's kind of this proclivity to use superficial identity markers to make a statement

00:09:11.960 about oneself and their individuality, and then to tribalistically sort of group these

00:09:18.580 people within these identity markers and categorize them in a hierarchical system if you

00:09:26.180 look back at early marxism it was a sort of distinction was made by by class and how much

00:09:32.560 money and wealth you had and now with wokeism it's these identity markers that you can sort of

00:09:37.060 stack to become a person of higher social status and and oppression has become currency in that way

00:09:43.840 under this system. If that makes sense. That makes complete sense. But I put it to you,

00:09:54.140 Amala, because this is a question that I struggle with. Can you not be against that and still be on

00:09:59.540 the left? You know, I think you can. And that's why we're seeing a lot of people right now who

00:10:07.040 are identifying as heterodox or politically homeless. And I'm currently on that journey

00:10:12.560 myself of walking around and hearing all these political labels and then getting a million

00:10:17.860 definitions for what they mean. And sometimes people will talk to me and say, oh, well,

00:10:22.180 you've identified as conservative. That means this, this, and that. And now I'm in a space

00:10:26.420 where I'm saying, okay, just ask me on an issue by issue basis. I'll tell you how I feel about

00:10:31.500 that certain issue. And that's how we should all be as individuals. I think the labels have really

00:10:38.100 harmed us, but we are patterned human beings and that's what we like to go by and that's what we

00:10:44.000 use. I think you can certainly be a left-leaning or liberal person without subscribing yourself to

00:10:49.260 wokeism. And coming back to something you said earlier, Amala, in terms of the ability to

00:10:54.880 persuade people, that's something we think about a lot on this show because ultimately I think that

00:11:00.260 will be the answer, particularly with young people who, in your case, it doesn't sound like

00:11:05.620 you'd been exposed to a different worldview prior to actually having the experience of being

00:11:11.860 confronted with what some of the views that you held meant in practice and in reality, right?

00:11:17.340 But it also doesn't sound to me like you were persuaded by anyone. You were persuaded by

00:11:22.780 experience. So is it actually possible, in your opinion, to persuade people to a different point

00:11:29.060 of you by talking to them? I do think it's possible. For me, it was a combination of things.

00:11:37.180 I had these unanswered questions and these deep feelings that I just couldn't quite place. And as

00:11:43.680 a young person, I turned to the internet. So I started going online, not to find different

00:11:49.740 opinions, but to reinforce my beliefs and to sort of find the statistics that support my ideas about

00:11:55.100 police brutality and systemic racism. And then I stumbled upon people who were content creators

00:12:00.400 with a conservative mindset or just looking for the objective truths in regard to these matters.

00:12:07.520 So I ran into Tom Soule and Larry Elder and Dave Rubin and all these people who were having these

00:12:14.380 discussions. And once you start watching these videos, you just fall down a rabbit hole. And for

00:12:19.560 me, I just fell down that rabbit hole of people talking to me through a screen. And that was how

00:12:25.660 I woke up. But when I go to universities and meet with young people who are just like I was, say,

00:12:32.740 four years ago, and have a lot of vitriol and hatred towards people who disagree with them,

00:12:37.900 the most success that I've had is in telling my story of being a former leftist and kind of

00:12:43.780 looking at them and saying, you know, four years ago, I would have been the one who organized the

00:12:47.880 protest that you all are here for right now. And now I just want to have a conversation with you

00:12:52.360 and I don't want any gotcha moments. I'm not trying to come at you and make you feel stupid 0.99

00:12:58.200 or brainwashed. And it's had a low success rate in that maybe five out of the 50 students that 0.99

00:13:04.980 are protesting me come into the speech. But I think five is better than zero. And it's better

00:13:09.800 than a lot of conservative pundits, at least at the time, are getting.

00:13:14.560 Amalek, I see the way sometimes, and maybe we've been guilty of this, or maybe I've been guilty of

00:13:20.220 this, you know, the way that we talk about your generation. And a lot of the time, it's not

00:13:25.860 particularly complimentary and whatever else. And analyzing it now, I think that's actually

00:13:32.480 quite unfair. Why do you think it is that so many of your peers ascribe to this ideology?

00:13:40.840 I would have loved it if you'd ask you, why do you think it is so many of your peers are a woke snowflake idiot? 1.00

00:13:47.540 Bastards! 1.00

00:13:49.300 I was going to interrupt you and say, you know, a lot of the criticism is rightful. 0.99

00:13:52.380 Our generation is pretty messed up, at least in my experience in meeting them.

00:13:57.060 Why? I think that's just youthfulness at its core is wanting to be transformative, wanting to be rebellious.

00:14:06.520 and a little bit of cynicism I think is mixed in in youth as well and I think with that you have

00:14:12.600 this perfect cocktail for wanting to be a leftist we are searching for value or searching for a

00:14:19.880 fight at least I certainly was at that age and it was served to me on a silver platter not only do

00:14:26.920 you have something to fight but it's given to you by virtue of being born the way that you're born

00:14:30.520 so here's the fight here's what you have to do and the only way that you get through this is by

00:14:35.520 going out and convincing other people to be activists towards this cause. So it's extremely

00:14:40.520 enticing. And then you couple that with a group of people who also wants to give you everything.

00:14:46.160 We want you to have a free school. We want you to have universal basic income. We want to sort of

00:14:51.900 even out the economy and make sure that there's no poverty and everybody's doing well and

00:14:56.040 everybody's educated. And all of these things sound wonderful. Plus they give you a fight to

00:15:01.220 fight. So I think that's why young people love leftism. Conservatism or even going through and

00:15:08.080 trying to find objective truths is a lot harder to do. And it's a lot less fun. It's definitely

00:15:14.160 not as cool to hear that you don't have as many problems and you don't have sort of a crutch to

00:15:19.180 stand on for where you're at in life. But also, I mean, if you look at the history of the United

00:15:25.060 States, it's not great. Like a lot of histories or actually every history of every country,

00:15:29.800 there's been inequality, there's been racism. So isn't there a kernel of truth to these people's

00:15:34.520 arguments? Yes. So I talk a lot about where woke ideas come from and how they sort of become

00:15:43.020 courses essentially at college that you can now take. And a lot of people will say, well, how

00:15:47.980 dare, how could you be against critical race theory? They're teaching it at Yale, they're

00:15:50.940 teaching it at Harvard, things like that. And it's because these ideas start with a very strong

00:15:56.120 a moral impulse. I think a lot of people who are anti-woke get one thing in particular wrong,

00:16:01.960 and it's that these people sort of lack a strong sense of morality or that they are inherently

00:16:06.660 immoral. That's not the case at all. In fact, they're very strongly driven by their moral

00:16:12.000 impulses. And when you look at America's history and the transgressions that have been committed,

00:16:18.280 a lot of people have moral impulses towards those things. And they go, absolutely,

00:16:21.760 that is a horrible thing that should have never happened. And of course, we need to take some form

00:16:26.860 of reparative measures. And that's what woke leftists think they're doing now. The only issue

00:16:31.720 is they tend to skew to the most radical form of prescription that you could possibly give to

00:16:39.800 a problem like racism or sexism. Instead of saying, this thing is wrong, and we should call

00:16:46.660 out people when they do it, and there should maybe be social repercussions for somebody who

00:16:51.000 is racist or sexist, they skew all the way over to the left and say, well, if you are white,

00:16:56.800 you are inherently racist. If you are a man, you are inherently sexist. And we learn this 0.96

00:17:01.440 throughout our history. So they use the kernels of truth to make a much broader claim that people

00:17:07.720 fall for. And what are these kernels of truth, Amela? Yeah, I mean, we went through quite a long

00:17:15.760 history of slavery in this country. And after freeing the enslaved, we went through a Jim 1.00

00:17:22.760 Crow era where we still could not manage to legally prescribe equality to our society. 0.90

00:17:28.080 We went through a period of time where women couldn't vote. They were not enticed to get 1.00

00:17:34.720 educations or have jobs. There are certain disparities among people based on their race,

00:17:42.440 their age, their size, all of these things exist and should be discussed and talked about.

00:17:48.820 And it's funny, we fight on the prescription for how we solve these things, but we also fight on

00:17:55.420 whether or not we're willing to acknowledge. And I think everybody should acknowledge that these

00:17:59.200 transgressions have existed throughout our history. It's not a wrong thing to say. In fact, 1.00

00:18:04.540 acknowledging the transgressions should be a fulfilling thing because we also acknowledge

00:18:10.060 the progress that we've made out of them. You know what's weird to me, Amala? I wasn't born

00:18:16.420 here in the UK. I'm from Russia originally. I don't know what your family background is. I

00:18:21.060 imagine you were born in the US. But you probably know that the things that you were talking about,

00:18:25.940 not in an identical way, but they happened in every country. I mean, I talk about it in my

00:18:33.140 book. Slavery was pretty common everywhere. And actually, the British Empire was the first to end

00:18:39.600 it as opposed to being the worst of the culprits and so on. So do you have any insight into why

00:18:46.220 our societies in particular have become so self-flagellating? And instead of looking at

00:18:53.120 those things that we've just discussed in a kind of, well, that's history. Thank God we're not

00:18:59.240 there anymore. Let's be grateful approach, which is my view of it, really. We sort of go, no, no,

00:19:05.760 we're all terrible and we must beat ourselves up endlessly about it.

00:19:09.820 Yeah, I wish I knew why our society in particular chose to take that route. I would like to say

00:19:17.000 maybe it's we've become so comfortable and we don't have as many problems here that we are

00:19:21.960 now trying to find them. And we've looked to history to do that. But there's a lot of other

00:19:26.160 countries who are just as comfortable as we are here in the US. I think our academic structure

00:19:32.820 is maybe different than other countries. And a lot of these ideas, when you trace them back to

00:19:37.480 their roots are going back to the sixties and seventies where, you know, you, you, you essentially

00:19:42.520 had college students writing theories and, and, uh, writing theories about these ideas of critical

00:19:49.620 race theory or, or critical feminism. And then these journals are published and reviewed and

00:19:55.360 published and reviewed. And eventually they become tenured professors and they're teaching classes

00:19:59.140 like that. And I think maybe our structure in academia or our system here has given way to

00:20:06.240 these issues. But I can't really pin down why America has so much guilt towards its history

00:20:14.100 and other countries don't. No, you identified a couple of very good points. One is comfort,

00:20:19.400 the other, indoctrination in school. You put those two together. You're going to get some

00:20:24.420 pretty powerful results. Yeah. When I was first going through this journey of finding people

00:20:30.240 whose ideas really resonated with me, I found a man by the name of Yuri Bezmenov, which I'm sure

00:20:36.260 you're probably both familiar with. And he did several speeches on ideological subversion and

00:20:42.180 how it starts with education. And his videos, if the people listening have not seen them,

00:20:48.940 please go and watch them because I think there's no better description of what is happening right

00:20:54.400 And he claims that it starts in education. So maybe that's the root cause.

00:20:59.940 Amala, do you think as well it's social media, especially when you look at during the pandemic, what happened when we were all effectively locked in our homes and we mainline social media and into our eyeballs for 18 hours a day?

00:21:14.260 No wonder that social justice and all these organizations rose to prominence.

00:21:20.520 yeah it is it's crazy how bad you will think the world is if you're on social media it's

00:21:26.620 unbelievable i'm of the opinion that we should not be as hooked into news as we are it's sort

00:21:34.000 of unbelievable if we break down on a scale how many sad happy it doesn't even matter uh the the

00:21:41.360 sort of emotion behind the stories but how many stories we are hearing on a daily basis how often

00:21:45.960 we are looking at other people's faces on a daily basis, how often we are seeing our own faces

00:21:51.020 mirrored back to us on a daily basis. I don't think any of this is particularly helpful or

00:21:56.140 healthy for the human mind. And social media, I mean, we've studied and researched as far as we

00:22:02.540 know now, because it's a relatively new thing on the human brain, is deteriorating young minds

00:22:09.400 in particular. You have not only this influx of stories that you're hearing all the time,

00:22:15.780 which can make you think the world is a lot worse than it actually is, but you also have

00:22:20.760 comparing your life to other lives, and young women in particular are really susceptible to

00:22:27.240 developing mental health issues due to that, and social media is also working on a cycle of

00:22:33.400 glamorizing, fetishizing, oppression, mental health problems, and you go farther on social

00:22:41.600 media, the more unique you are. And it's unfortunate that not everybody can be the

00:22:45.760 most unique person in the world, but we can all try to emulate and sort of absorb the things we're

00:22:52.480 seeing on social media. And unfortunately, I think we're absorbing some of the worst bits of what's

00:22:57.340 on the internet. And anecdotally, looking at your own generation, in particular women, what have you

00:23:03.980 seen? I mean, with young women on the internet, I think it's really changed everything. The 1.00

00:23:12.500 internet used to be, at least social media in particular, used to be a sort of highlight reel

00:23:16.780 of your life. And everybody, for the most part, knew it was fake. You're not on the beach every

00:23:21.200 day. You just took 50 photos and now you're posting them. And you're not really living

00:23:26.280 this glamorous life. And you and your boyfriend are so in love, but I saw you guys fighting last

00:23:30.440 weekend at the football game, stuff like that. But now social media is just how many pieces of

00:23:36.360 myself can I put on the internet? And we're sort of mining all the bits of us that we feel we can

00:23:42.500 commercialize to other people. And young women, when they're going through just their formative

00:23:50.160 years, I went through it, being exposed to social media can just fry your brain. You're seeing

00:23:55.220 people who look nothing like you, who are getting all of this attention. You see just basically an 0.99

00:24:03.660 algorithm that's telling you what is valuable and just how valuable it is. And you start applying

00:24:09.900 yourself to your own social media accounts and seeing what bits of you people take to and what

00:24:15.840 bits of you people don't. And essentially you're creating metrics for your personality and who you

00:24:20.620 are as an individual. And young women right now are struggling way more than they ever had with

00:24:27.220 suicidal ideation, with different mental health comorbidities. And I struggle to think that

00:24:35.320 social media is not a deeply set part of that problem. Yeah. Particularly when we look at young

00:24:45.020 women and what's happened to them. It always shocks me when I see women of your age, Amela,

00:24:50.780 and they've got Botox. Why have you got Botox? Why have you got lip fillers? You are in the

00:24:56.140 flush of youth. The last thing you need is to freeze parts of your face so you don't get wrinkles.

00:25:02.680 That to me, it strikes me as awful. Yeah, it's crazy. And I live in LA, so it's like every woman, 1.00

00:25:10.340 every woman is, it's just so normal. I'm like, oh, what are you doing this Saturday? Oh, you know,

00:25:14.340 I'm going to get Botox or I'm going to get filler. And there's a long line of girls all doing the 1.00

00:25:18.060 same and they're all in their early twenties. And we've just, it's grown so normal when you go on

00:25:25.800 social media and you see people who are using face filters or their Instagram models, and they've

00:25:31.400 gotten all this work done. You think, oh, well, why shouldn't I do the same? And in fact, it's

00:25:35.300 greatly encouraged. I can't tell you how many videos that I see of women saying, if you need

00:25:40.640 a sign to go get Botox. Here's your sign to do it today. Look at my face. It's so beautiful.

00:25:46.340 And it sucks that women are so obsessed with aging and something that's going to happen 0.98

00:25:54.240 naturally. And it sucks that we cannot take on aging as something that is beautiful and something 0.99

00:26:00.500 that should be celebrated. We're celebrating all the wrong things. And in fact, reinforcing

00:26:06.300 what feminists claim to be against. It's this idea that beauty is something that needs to be 1.00

00:26:11.900 held onto, or beauty is something that you cannot keep if you age naturally. And it's just so,

00:26:17.820 so harmful. And I can't imagine having a young daughter in this day and age who is looking up

00:26:23.980 and seeing all of these standards that they're somehow supposed to meet naturally, but can never

00:26:28.340 do that. And do you think that's part of the reason as well that you kind of drifted to the

00:26:34.580 right? When you look at the things that are being espoused by society, and a lot of the time,

00:26:42.120 but also by people on the left, you know, that you can be whatever you want. You can change your

00:26:46.160 gender. You can change this. You can change that. And the reality is, is they're denying biology. 0.85

00:26:52.380 They're denying human nature. And then it's a denial of nature itself.

00:26:57.340 Yes. The denial of truth was a big mover for me in changing my viewpoint on a lot of different

00:27:04.440 subjects. And it's also the fact that there's so much hypocrisy in that statement of you can be

00:27:10.900 whoever you want to be when you really get down to the root of how they are implementing this in

00:27:15.100 their own lives. If you look into leftism and you look into it deeply, and especially identity

00:27:19.840 politics, you will find that there is no space to be whoever it is that you want to be. There is no

00:27:24.680 space to think whatever it is that you want to think. And in fact, they are hellbent on pushing

00:27:30.040 people into boxes. I felt no greater racism than going on the internet and saying, I am a

00:27:37.640 conservative. It was unbelievable how quickly people jumped to me and said, well, you're a

00:27:43.060 female. You couldn't possibly be conservative. You're half black. You couldn't possibly be 1.00

00:27:46.860 conservative. This is the box that is created for those identity markers. And we must jam you

00:27:51.780 into that box. And if you do not fit, you are alienated. You are no longer a part of the club.

00:27:57.100 So as much as they say everybody's special and unique and they can be whoever they want to be, they don't think that at all. And they think there's no greater, I guess, social experiment to prove that that is the case than what's happening right now with gender.

00:28:11.880 If you look at somebody like Dylan Mulvaney, who came up in that Matt Walsh video, who we've both been talking about quite a bit, Dylan Mulvaney is a feminine man.

00:28:20.440 It's as simple and plain as that, but because he's expressed himself femininely, they say, well, you must now shove yourself into the box that is womanhood, and we must now claim you as a woman, we must call you she and her, and this is the box that you now fit in.

00:28:34.960 I'm pretty sure Dylan is quite happy to be shoved in that box. I think Dylan is desperate to get in that box.

00:28:40.880 He really is. I think he's proven that time and time again, but the, the, the issue still stands.

00:28:46.820 There's no, I get your point completely. And, um, you know, it's the denial, the whole, I mean,

00:28:54.800 if you're, if you're a fan of Thomas Sowell, the whole idea of nature, he's written extensively

00:28:58.940 about how the left and the right see that very differently. Um, and I'm curious with you living

00:29:05.120 in LA. Do you have any friends? I do. I have managed to find friends. I've got some brilliant

00:29:14.800 friends, some of whom I've met through PragerU, others who I've met just through moving to the

00:29:19.360 city, met my boyfriend here in LA somehow. I just think I've been very lucky. No, it's funny.

00:29:25.480 The reason I ask is a very good friend of ours called Bridget Fetasy, who you probably have

00:29:30.180 heard of um when we traveled around america last year we did a whole trip and we went to uh we went

00:29:36.420 to virginia and washington and new york and a bunch of places and everywhere we went there's

00:29:41.060 gigantic american flags all over the place loads of houses have them outside and then we got to

00:29:47.160 bridget's house and she had this like tiny little american flag in the corner of a little bit of a 0.98

00:29:52.640 door and and i went that's california patriotism you have a flag but it is about this big in a

00:29:58.080 corner because you can't you can't have the big one no yeah you're 100 right most of the people

00:30:03.080 who i meet who watch my content here in la i i can see them because they kind of walk up to me

00:30:09.300 and they whisper that they that they like what i have to say or that they follow me on instagram

00:30:14.320 you can't say anything too loud you have a lot of quiet friends here in los angeles

00:30:19.100 but surely amela it's going to come to a point with la we're in san francisco when you look

00:30:27.900 around and you go this can't carry on this is this is insanity I like to think that's gonna

00:30:35.460 happen I don't know I really don't know it's crazy to watch as things just deteriorate and people

00:30:42.620 I don't know if they're not making the connection between what they're voting for and what's

00:30:48.100 happening in their city or if they just simply cannot bring themselves to you know tick the

00:30:54.060 ballot box of somebody who they they feel they fundamentally disagree with i don't know that

00:30:58.800 it's going to change and all the conversations that i have with people who are supporting the

00:31:02.540 stuff that's happening in la it's kind of like they just turn a blind eye to to the destruction

00:31:09.220 and you would think like yuri vesmanov says you you don't really recognize it until the military 0.99

00:31:16.260 boot kicks you in the ass the military boot is kicking them in the ass here and they're not 1.00

00:31:20.600 making the connection. I don't know. I don't know how long this lasts for. You should be the person 1.00

00:31:25.400 who has the answer to this, because I guess the question would be four years ago, if someone had

00:31:30.560 said to you, look around, you know, there's drug addicts who are not getting the help they need,

00:31:35.900 sleeping on the streets, being sexually assaulted, spreading disease to each other and the rest of

00:31:41.180 the population, like all of that. Surely, Amala, you're against that as a woke activist. Surely

00:31:46.240 you want those people to be better, right? So what would your answer have been?

00:31:51.520 I think I would have found a way to blame it on the people who I disagree with.

00:31:55.220 I really think I would have managed. I was really good at just running my mouth and twisting words.

00:32:05.020 And I think that's exactly what I would. I probably would have spun it and said, you know,

00:32:08.840 the income disparity is created by conservatives and we need to tax the rich. And that's what's

00:32:14.220 going to help these people who are impoverished and who are you know doing drugs on the street

00:32:18.580 I would have found a way knowing myself but you know it kind of like I said there's got to be a

00:32:26.280 point because there are a couple of days ago Guy Pearce came out the famous Hollywood actor who

00:32:31.460 actually I'm a massive fan of I love his work and he came out and went look you know shouldn't actors

00:32:40.400 be able to play all different types of roles?

00:32:43.140 And shouldn't a non-trans actor 1.00

00:32:44.420 be able to play a trans role?

00:32:46.560 He didn't even say that, actually.

00:32:47.960 What he said was even more gentle.

00:32:49.580 What he said is,

00:32:50.900 if trans actors have to,

00:32:52.380 if you have to play a trans,

00:32:54.760 if a trans role has to be played by a trans actor,

00:32:58.060 then is it then restricting

00:33:01.160 what roles trans actors can play?

00:33:03.320 So he was formally, at least,

00:33:05.480 looking out for the trans actors.

00:33:07.180 He wasn't saying,

00:33:08.380 shouldn't we all be able to,

00:33:09.460 He wasn't even that brave.

00:33:10.900 No.

00:33:11.420 How dare he?

00:33:13.880 And then obviously, you know, the might of all the people who came out

00:33:21.680 and were just saying he's this, he's that, he's whatever else.

00:33:24.580 And he had to make a groveling apology, as they all do.

00:33:28.240 But you look at it, and again you go, surely,

00:33:33.360 even an opinion as reasonable as this one,

00:33:36.480 which is shared by, I would say, probably 98% of the population, and it's deemed to be incorrect,

00:33:45.080 this isn't sustainable. It's not. It's certainly not sustainable. And I don't know exactly how it

00:33:51.420 falls apart. I think a lot of it is going to be with sort of exactly what you just described,

00:33:56.400 them eating each other alive. Because with liberal people, center people, right-leaning people,

00:34:03.560 For the most part, there's room. There's quite a bit of room for disagreement within their respective camps. With wokeism, there isn't. And that was where I felt a lot of pressure myself and felt pushed away by them to answer the questions that I had, because I would maybe raise my hand and go, oh, wait a second, you know, maybe open borders doesn't sound like the best solution to the problems we're talking about here.

00:34:26.080 And you are chastised to hell. I mean, it's crazy to even the amount of pressure you feel to completely be subservient to everything that they say and to toe the line. And I can imagine that that pressure can be a lot. And it's a big weight for a lot of people who would self-describe as woke leftists.

00:34:46.900 And I think it has to be personal for you to change your mind. And often that personal experience that people have is being canceled or feeling that pressure of having a dissident opinion and maybe not being able to verbalize it or when you verbalize it, going through the attacks that you feel.

00:35:03.140 So I think that is part of how this falls apart, but it's also going to fall apart in just the chaos that we're experiencing in cities. It's unfortunate that that doesn't happen, however, until it hits the backyard of legislators.

00:35:18.300 In San Francisco, we saw Mayor London Breed go, you know, the crime has gotten too crazy and we need to do something about it.

00:35:24.280 And we need to reinforce our police officers when she was one of the main pushers of the defund the police. 0.99

00:35:29.480 But it wasn't until the crime hit her her side of town that she had to say something about it.

00:35:35.580 And that's the unfortunate part of all of this. You have to feel the failing.

00:35:39.640 Yes. And another unfortunate part of it is how racist it all is.

00:35:44.900 You see white liberals, and they're not liberals,

00:35:48.420 but let's just call them what they would identify as.

00:35:52.580 Respect their pronouns. 0.95

00:35:56.680 Her racial epithets at ethnic minorities for disagreeing with them.

00:36:03.680 And you go, I mean, this isn't right, is it?

00:36:06.420 And everyone's like, no, this is what we do now.

00:36:08.660 And you go, well, I don't know if I'm on board with this.

00:36:12.840 Yeah.

00:36:13.060 So I said before, the most racism I've ever experienced was after coming out as a conservative, and I cannot press that enough.

00:36:22.320 So I grew up in a really small rural conservative town, was surrounded by mainly white people, was subscribed completely to this idea of racism and white people being inherently racist, but had never experienced an ounce of it.

00:36:37.060 I come out as a conservative, and suddenly every single piece of racist rhetoric that is typically ascribed to conservatives was hurled at me. I mean, I was called a house Negro. I was told that I would always be seen as an N-word no matter what I did. I was told that I was an Uncle Tom, a coon.

00:36:55.060 And of course, this is the same experience of Larry Elder, of Tom Sowell, of Candace Owens, of anybody who chooses to come out and say these things.

00:37:02.760 If you want to really experience or get as close to the Jim Crow experience as possible, be a black person that comes out as a conservative and you will experience it instantly. 0.87

00:37:14.440 I'm like, can I ask you something about like your earlier years?

00:37:18.200 Because you mentioned growing up in a, in a mostly white, small conservative town.

00:37:22.580 You said you're raised by the white side of your family, right?

00:37:26.580 So your, your, your mother is white.

00:37:30.280 She's raising you. 1.00

00:37:32.020 She had sex with a black guy. 1.00

00:37:35.680 Yeah. 1.00

00:37:36.200 Like how, how are you then able in that situation to think that, you know, all white people are inherently racist when you've got a white mom.

00:37:44.440 who, who, who got together with a black guy and who's raising a mixed race daughter. Presumably

00:37:50.600 she wasn't calling you the N word in your crib, right? Right, right. No, my mom never called me

00:37:55.400 the N word just for the record. So yeah, my mom of course is a, she's a white ally, but it's 0.78

00:38:03.080 interesting when I, when I was working with all of these white people, including my mother at this 0.98

00:38:08.460 organization, they feel so much white guilt that they themselves feel there's no way to sort of

00:38:15.860 separate themselves from the history of white people. And although it might not take form as 0.56

00:38:24.500 blatant racism towards black people, they may have black friends, they may marry a black person and

00:38:29.260 have biracial kids, they still recognize things like unconscious bias, or say, you know, that they

00:38:34.840 can still be fall victim to prejudice against people of color or maybe have some internalized

00:38:41.080 ideas towards people of color. So there's always just a little kernel still left there to be able 0.99

00:38:46.940 to push the narrative that white people are inherently racist. But what about you? Like,

00:38:52.740 you've got a white mom and you believe that all white people are. So your mom is inherently racist. 1.00

00:38:59.060 Yeah, I mean, I can tell you I didn't look into these ideas too deeply.

00:39:04.840 definitely say that, uh, which is why they fell apart whenever I was pressed on them.

00:39:10.320 I, what is so enticing about leftism is not only that you don't have to look into the idea so

00:39:17.540 deeply, but also you are safeguarded in somewhat of a cultish manner that you have no obligation

00:39:24.700 to defend those ideas. And that in fact, the, the very act of trying to challenge somebody

00:39:31.220 on those beliefs is an act of racism, is an act of sexism. So all I had to do was when people were

00:39:38.200 asking me questions about this, go, oh, you're racist just for asking me that. You're sexist

00:39:42.200 just for asking me that question. And you're encouraged to make those accusations and to not

00:39:47.820 talk to people who you disagree with. Yeah. You've talked and you've mentioned the fact that you're

00:39:54.340 a conservative. What does conservatism mean to you? Because the thing is, with all these labels,

00:39:59.740 they actually mean something very different to different people like someone will say

00:40:04.060 I'm conservative and you know what you ask a conservative in this country their chances are

00:40:09.860 they're pro-gay marriage and they're anti-gun now if you do that in the United States that

00:40:14.740 kind of means you're a democrat yeah it's interesting and I I sort of came out of the

00:40:20.640 gate when I had this transformation and went okay well I actually fell for the same problem that I

00:40:27.540 had when I was a leftist where I said, well, if I'm not a leftist, then I must be a conservative.

00:40:30.760 And I sort of went really hard on that and said, well, if these people are wrong, then these people

00:40:36.980 must be right. And now I'm sort of floating in this space of, okay, do I identify as conservative

00:40:44.180 or am I just right-leaning on an issue-by-issue basis? And I'm totally honest in saying that

00:40:50.120 that's something that I'm still exploring. I mean, for the most part, I am anti-feminist as far as

00:40:55.740 modern-day feminism is concerned. I am pro-gun and pro-Second Amendment. I am pro-gay marriage.

00:41:01.780 So that's a point for the left-leaning end of things. And I'm just going through all these

00:41:07.200 issues. And I guess why I said right of center at the beginning is that I feel I'm socially and

00:41:12.940 fiscally to the right when it comes to American politics. Okay. And what does that mean? Let's

00:41:20.500 dig a little deeper. What does that mean socially and fiscally? So, so socially, I guess it means

00:41:26.560 rejecting a lot of the woke narratives and the identity of politics. I don't prescribe myself

00:41:33.280 to the idea of oppression in this country. Socially, I am pro Second Amendment, which is a strong

00:41:40.780 issue. I happen to be pro-life with some exceptions when it comes to abortion, which is a recent

00:41:50.000 topic uh socially with feminism i'm very much against all of the the rhetoric there i'm trying

00:41:58.180 to think what other what other common social issues are we going back and forth with uh

00:42:03.480 you know what's interesting that other than the gun thing which is obviously a big divider in your

00:42:09.260 country all of those things until about three minutes ago would have put you bang in the middle

00:42:14.320 of politics in America and in the UK, actually.

00:42:18.860 You know what I mean?

00:42:19.960 I imagine you want people to be supported,

00:42:22.960 but you don't want a massive welfare state.

00:42:25.560 I imagine that you believe that women should have rights,

00:42:28.800 but you don't think air conditioning is sexist.

00:42:31.220 These are all things, like I said until about two minutes ago,

00:42:35.660 most people believe that we're not.

00:42:37.340 And that's one of the things that I kind of see happening is,

00:42:40.340 I don't know that people like you and people like us

00:42:43.180 that are being pushed away from where they started,

00:42:45.920 which would have been on the left.

00:42:47.000 And necessarily all that conservative or right wing

00:42:50.340 in the first place, I just think we're not woke.

00:42:53.100 And I think what we're trying to find out is like,

00:42:55.940 what does that, what's the space that that creates

00:42:59.200 that has a more positive orientation towards the future?

00:43:03.140 Yeah, I'm trying to figure that out as well.

00:43:06.360 I've been thinking a lot and mulling over

00:43:08.380 just not going by anything anymore

00:43:10.720 and just going around and talking about the issues as they come,

00:43:15.240 the current events as they come.

00:43:16.600 Because in many ways, I think, in being anti-woke,

00:43:21.220 I did at some point get pigeonholed into conservatism.

00:43:24.360 And sometimes you'll say things, and I'm sure you get this as well,

00:43:27.620 where maybe conservatives will follow you

00:43:29.460 because you have your certain stance on gender.

00:43:32.360 And then you say something else, and it's like the roof is blown off

00:43:35.300 because you're not fully subscripted to everything.

00:43:37.880 Every week. Yeah, that happens every week.

00:43:39.480 so that's that's an issue that i've gone through i congratulated dave rubin on having children uh

00:43:47.120 through through surrogacy and that was like how dare you call yourself a conservative and this

00:43:51.880 this happens so i'm honestly i think going to move to just an anti anti-label future and just

00:43:58.740 let people deal with it it's crazy to me because i'm i'm a big supporter and fan of russell brand

00:44:03.620 And I watch all the videos that he puts out. He's now called a far right extremist. And I just cannot fathom how anybody would make that characterization for him. So I think exactly what you said is right.

00:44:15.860 Yeah. I suppose the challenge for you, if I can say so, might be that you have locked yourself into PragerU, which is a conservative organization. Nothing wrong with that. But you are kind of attached, aren't you?

00:44:29.360 Yeah, I mean, I think I am free to express all the things that I've expressed today are the same things that I express on my show. I think they just happen to have that conservative label on their organization. I feel for the most part, with what Preview puts out, it very much resonates with me.

00:44:48.800 So I don't know that I've been necessarily stuck with the label itself or that people see that from me.

00:44:58.700 For the most part, when I'm meeting people or talking to people, I meet a really wide range of different ideological backgrounds and leanings.

00:45:06.460 And people just know me for who I am.

00:45:09.460 I don't think the label has to be stuck.

00:45:13.260 Yeah.

00:45:13.800 Yeah, that's really interesting.

00:45:15.340 And I do think that's the problem now, is that labels don't mean anything.

00:45:19.560 But you were talking and you're making criticisms about leftism.

00:45:23.840 And if you would explain to somebody 15 years ago, that's what leftism is.

00:45:28.800 They'd look at you like you've been dropped on your head.

00:45:31.300 I think a woman is a woman. 1.00

00:45:33.340 Yeah, you'd be like.

00:45:35.860 Right.

00:45:36.680 Yeah, like I said, they've completely switched.

00:45:38.740 I mean, leftism, if you look back on what it was in maybe the 1970s,

00:45:42.320 I was like, oh yeah, pro-skepticism, anti-establishment, you know, you are skeptical of government entities and you probably don't want it to grow beyond the point that it's at now. Oh yeah, that sounds like a leftist to me. I think I'd be able to get behind that, but it's just shifted and morphed. And I think as they pull farther left, the people, anybody who's on the other end is going to pull farther to the other side.

00:46:06.420 And that's where they're actually going to run into some issues, because I can't imagine what a right-leaning equivalent would look like to some of the stuff that they're managing to pull off today.

00:46:17.520 And I don't want to see that, quite frankly.

00:46:20.220 Do you think America needs more political parties, Amala?

00:46:23.020 So actually, so the people...

00:46:25.880 Go on, tell me why.

00:46:27.720 Big question.

00:46:28.700 I don't know that it needs...

00:46:30.420 It's so weird, because I don't know that it needs more political parties or just no political parties.

00:46:35.420 I don't know how how I would go about doing this. Our founding fathers directly warned against the creation of political parties, George Washington in particular, and said and basically prophesied that it was going to lead to these tribalistic issues.

00:46:51.080 and it essentially just becomes, you know, cogs in a wheel that are just stuck and they're never

00:46:57.780 going to move anywhere, which is where we're at right now. And where our conversation comes about

00:47:04.080 defining leftism, defining liberalism, defining conservative, these are major problems because

00:47:09.880 most people sit in the middle on any particular given issue. But now we're in this sort of split

00:47:18.500 case of left versus right or Democrat versus Republican. And people feel the need to go for

00:47:23.440 the side that best represents how they feel on what, 10 different issues. So I don't know if I'm

00:47:29.520 just anti all political parties like our founding fathers were. I guess in the system that we're in

00:47:35.340 now, the necessity would be to create more because I don't think there's any way that we are going to

00:47:42.220 break down the two-party system that we're in right now.

00:47:46.000 And there's no better example of an issue on which actually there is that level of polarization and a complete lack of consensus than the Second Amendment and guns, which you brought up.

00:47:56.520 And obviously there was this terrible shooting recently. And this is, by the way, when we were in America, we went to the gun range and shot some guns.

00:48:05.520 We went to a big gun show. I always said I'm happy to live in Britain where we don't have private ownership of handguns other than for hunting.

00:48:13.620 But if I lived in America, most places in America,

00:48:17.580 I probably wouldn't have a gun in central New York.

00:48:19.820 I don't think I'd be allowed.

00:48:20.640 But most places, I'd have a train with firearms, et cetera.

00:48:25.180 However, I have to say, from a British perspective,

00:48:28.900 we look at you guys and we go, that's crazy.

00:48:31.960 Like, what's going on in America is insane, right?

00:48:35.180 And the reason we think that is because in this country,

00:48:38.840 in the late 90s, I think it was,

00:48:40.620 we had a one school shooting in a place called Dunblane in Scotland.

00:48:45.480 And after that, everyone, let's not have guns anymore.

00:48:50.380 We didn't, we haven't had a mass shooting since in the school.

00:48:53.900 Like, so to us, I'm not saying it applies to America.

00:48:56.720 I'm not saying it should apply to America,

00:48:58.460 but from a British perspective, generally,

00:49:01.720 it's like this kind of seems like a solvable problem.

00:49:06.720 So tell us why it's not.

00:49:08.300 yeah so my my boyfriend's from sydney australia so he sees the same thing that you see and goes

00:49:14.280 just like what the fuck is going on and why are you guys allowing this to happen here this should

00:49:18.160 not be the case uh and i'm certainly sympathetic to that view and i think a lot of people here in 0.97

00:49:23.020 america are it very deeply goes back to the foundation of this country and i think uh with

00:49:29.300 the second amendment and the fact that this country began with an uprising towards what they

00:49:34.180 deemed to be a tyrannical totalitarian government. People are worried about that ever happening

00:49:40.260 again, and they think that the Second Amendment is pivotal in protecting themselves from that

00:49:45.280 possibility in the future. And in America, since we are so pro-individualism and so pro-freedom,

00:49:54.220 the freedom to protect oneself is something that so many people hold near and dear to their

00:50:00.100 hearts. So we are dealing with the polarization of those that would be happy to give that up and

00:50:06.920 those who think that it's both fundamental to the founding of this country and a right that they

00:50:12.280 should have as an individual to protect themselves. So I don't know that the gun issue is ever going

00:50:19.740 to get solved. I think it's going to get stricter and stricter and stricter. But I don't know that

00:50:24.760 we're ever going to go back on the Second Amendment.

00:50:28.300 No, I don't imagine you will.

00:50:29.940 And actually, the argument you gave,

00:50:31.440 which is resisting government tyranny,

00:50:34.580 I think is the strongest argument, actually,

00:50:36.740 in favor of gun ownership.

00:50:38.800 I don't necessarily think that that means

00:50:41.540 it is a strong argument.

00:50:42.800 And the reason I say that is,

00:50:44.460 look at what happened during COVID, right?

00:50:47.200 People were locked in their homes,

00:50:48.780 and a lot of people were against that.

00:50:50.420 Did they go out and fight for their rights?

00:50:56.140 Yeah, I think they're, in a sense,

00:51:00.000 waiting or using that example to be more of a

00:51:03.820 when the rubber meets the road.

00:51:05.920 I don't know that it would be some sort of revolution or uprising,

00:51:09.060 but when the government comes to...

00:51:10.840 It's a position to fade again.

00:51:11.700 I promise you, we're not going to do it.

00:51:13.360 We haven't got the army or the bulls.

00:51:16.940 We're worried about you guys anymore.

00:51:20.420 Yeah, I know what you mean. And it's a difficult issue. But I think I think you make the point. You make the right point, which is on a practical level, given the number of people that have to agree to to amend the Constitution.

00:51:35.660 It's just not it's not a whether people whatever the rights and wrongs of it are, it's just not going to happen. Right. Right. Right. And it's I mean, economically, the government has no incentive to do something like that.

00:51:46.140 And I think just the amount of, you know, the common arguments, the bad men with the guns who are running rampant in specifically our metropolitan areas, people want to protect themselves.

00:52:00.000 And for the most part, law abiding gun owners are not necessarily the problem.

00:52:07.420 I don't know about the case of this national shooter because I don't know that that what's come out there.

00:52:11.700 I certainly think with issues of mental illness and people being assessed as a harm to themselves or a harm to others, there certainly needs to be stricter laws.

00:52:21.080 I am certainly for stricter laws as far as gun control is concerned.

00:52:25.940 And I don't think we should be in this frivolous society where you could just go anywhere and get anything at any given moment.

00:52:32.880 Does it worry you, Amala, the divisions in your country, the fact that everyone has to pick a team, the fact that everyone has to pick a side,

00:52:40.540 when the reality is most people don't care that much about politics and nor should they,

00:52:45.740 because as we all know, there are far more important things in life.

00:52:49.260 Why are we being forced to pick a team continually?

00:52:54.060 Why are we being forced to pick a team continually?

00:52:58.000 It's tough because where politics doesn't matter on a day-to-day basis,

00:53:03.320 it is starting to affect people's daily lives a lot more.

00:53:08.340 The reason that we're talking about these gender issues is because now we got like kids talking about sex and sexuality in school and developing mental health issues or trying to transition.

00:53:18.500 So in the grand scheme, I think a lot of people think, oh, well, politics doesn't matter all that much.

00:53:24.320 But politics and culture are great movers for social change and change in our daily lifestyles.

00:53:31.160 So I think that's why people are polarized and asked to choose.

00:53:35.660 Am I frightened a little bit about the amount of division? A little, a little bit. Sometimes I'm going to give out speeches and I think, OK, what does security look like at this event and what's going to happen? And somebody needs to keep an eye on things. So nobody should feel like that in doing the work that we do. And it seems as though everybody does. So I'm certainly concerned. I don't know what necessarily the solution is for breaking down the tribalism, though.

00:54:03.760 Well, I think you're doing it, actually, which is it's honest inquiry, being prepared to change your mind, being able to see where people are coming from, trying to meet them where they're at and being honest with yourself.

00:54:14.820 Because I think it's very, very tempting, as you talked about, the moment you realize that you are not you don't fit in the environment in which we found the same thing.

00:54:25.380 We were two comedians in an extremely woke comedy industry from which, unlike the United States, there's no escape.

00:54:32.140 There's one industry. And if you if you fall foul of that, there's no way for you to go unless you want to go to to another country.

00:54:39.720 And once that happens, it's very tempting, as you say, to go to the other side and be like, oh, these guys have all the answers.

00:54:45.700 But when you go there, you find out they really, really don't.

00:54:48.380 And so I think honest inquiry of the type that you are engaged in and we try to engage in is the way to go.

00:54:54.800 Listen, it's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you.

00:54:57.180 We're going to ask you a few questions from our local supporters that only they will get to see the answer to.

00:55:02.140 and they're always brilliant. But before we let you go, what is the one thing that we're not

00:55:06.860 talking about as a society that you think we really should be? I think I'm going to go with

00:55:13.300 this. I've been mulling it over. Relationships are very important. Familial, friendships,

00:55:17.640 all of these just deeply set relationships that you can build in your life are really

00:55:21.140 important and people should be focusing on that regardless of their political ideology. I get

00:55:25.900 asked, I guess the most when I'm doing interviews is how is the relationship between you and your

00:55:30.680 mom now, you're on two different sides of the spectrum. How is this working? And I tell people

00:55:35.700 we are closer than we've ever been because we've decided that that is not the most important part

00:55:40.140 of our relationship. And so many people now, I think, feel lonely where they're at. And that's

00:55:46.340 also what is pushing forward this political divide. It's social media. It's a lack of

00:55:51.200 relationships. It's a lack of human interaction and deep human interaction. So prioritize that

00:55:56.520 as much as you prioritize your job

00:55:58.180 and your political fights

00:55:59.100 and all these different things.

00:56:00.680 And you'll find that your life

00:56:02.040 is just so much better

00:56:03.000 and so much happier.

00:56:04.040 So that's what I want people

00:56:05.080 to talk about and think about.

00:56:07.400 Awesome.

00:56:08.040 Well, Amala, before we head over to local,

00:56:09.720 just tell everybody where to find you

00:56:11.820 on the internet,

00:56:13.020 you know, all the social media.

00:56:14.420 And of course, you're unapologetic

00:56:15.840 with Amala on YouTube here as well.

00:56:19.140 Yeah, sure.

00:56:19.620 So you can find me anywhere

00:56:20.800 on any platform

00:56:21.900 by searching Amala Epinobi.

00:56:23.680 I know it's a mouthful,

00:56:24.740 but you will find me at the end of it.

00:56:26.000 And, yeah, I'm everywhere and active all the time.

00:56:29.780 Amalek and Obi, thank you so much for coming on the show.

00:56:32.940 It's been an absolute pleasure.

00:56:35.160 Thank you for watching.

00:56:36.540 And for those of you who've been enjoying the show,

00:56:38.440 always remember that it goes out Wednesdays and Sundays, 7 p.m. UK time.

00:56:43.540 And for those of you who like your trigonometry on the go,

00:56:47.000 it's also available as a podcast.

00:56:48.800 Take care and see you soon, guys.

00:56:50.420 What was the craziest thing that you believed when you were still woke?

TRIGGERnometry - April 26, 2023

I Was a Woke Activist… Not Anymore! - Amala Ekpunobi

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