TRIGGERnometry - “Ireland is the Ultimate Victim Nation” – Brendan O’Neill

00:00:00.000 Ireland is in a bad way at the moment.

00:00:04.120 Ireland's gone very woke, but on the Israel-Palestine issue,

00:00:07.740 it has gone completely insane.

00:00:09.380 There are so many interlocking crises in Ireland,

00:00:12.300 and yet all that the establishment talks about is Israel.

00:00:15.720 It's gone from organizing itself around the Catholic religion

00:00:18.580 to organize itself around the woke religion,

00:00:20.580 and there was no breathing space in between that.

00:00:23.560 Anti-Israel sentiment, I think,

00:00:25.880 is a cancerous outgrowth of anti-Westernism.

00:00:30.000 Can we just acknowledge the elephant in the room, which is, it's a class thing?

00:00:33.500 Yeah, it's a class thing.

00:00:35.500 We have a situation now in this country where the ruling class is, I think,

00:00:41.000 quite suicidally destroying everything that makes Britain great.

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00:01:11.660 Brendan O'Neill, welcome back to Trigonometry.

00:01:14.080 Pleasure to be here.

00:01:14.760 We were just reminiscing.

00:01:15.860 You were actually one of our first ten guests in the entire history of the show, I think.

00:01:20.300 Wow.

00:01:20.640 Fair to say.

00:01:21.240 I love that.

00:01:21.940 That's good to hear.

00:01:23.860 Yeah.

00:01:24.300 And we've talked with you about all sorts of different things.

00:01:26.780 But this time, there's something going on that Francis and I have kind of experienced and observed and whatever.

00:01:35.120 There's something going on with Ireland and Irish people in the context of Israel and Gaza, partly, but also just more generally.

00:01:44.820 I don't know what it is.

00:01:46.120 People assume because, you know, we are controversial, like we get people coming up to you in the street and, you know, screaming.

00:01:52.440 It never happens.

00:01:53.180 I've literally never had anyone say anything negative to me in public, ever, except one time, and it was an Irish person who said, I used to love what you do, but then you've changed, man.

00:02:03.680 And it turned out that not being wholly, massively pro-Palestine is, you know, you've violated some sort of sacred commitment that apparently I'd made.

00:02:14.740 Is it that just Irish, a lot of Irish people think they're Palestinian? Is that what's going on here?

00:02:20.480 Ireland is in a bad way at the moment.

00:02:22.360 I say this as I'm a thoroughbred Mick.

00:02:25.620 I've done 23andMe.

00:02:27.540 My whole history is just the west of Ireland.

00:02:31.140 I'm about as Irish as it gets, even though I don't sound like I am.

00:02:35.520 So it pains me to say that Ireland has completely lost the plot,

00:02:40.500 especially on this issue.

00:02:42.460 On quite a few issues, Ireland's gone very woke,

00:02:45.220 but on the Israel-Palestine issue, it has gone completely insane.

00:02:49.620 And we've now reached a situation where the cultural establishment in Dublin defines itself by its hostility towards Israel.

00:02:58.680 It defines itself by its opposition to the idea of Jewish sovereignty, the idea of a Jewish homeland.

00:03:04.180 You will meet people in Dublin everywhere you go who either wear the kefir or wave the Palestinian flag or openly say that it's time for the Jewish state to be wrapped up. 0.99

00:03:15.360 You know, you've had your fun, pack it in, let's go back to just having a greater Palestine.

00:03:20.460 That is a very common view amongst influential people in Dublin.

00:03:24.920 And they have become rabidly obsessed with this issue to the exclusion of almost every other issue in the world.

00:03:32.400 It's almost like Ireland has defined itself as being the anti-Israel state.

00:03:38.360 And given that Israel is the Jewish homeland, that's a really problematic position for Ireland to be in

00:03:44.420 because it means it's effectively becoming increasingly anti-Jewish.

00:03:48.660 And I think that's been played out in Ireland.

00:03:50.780 We can see it in the invective that is used in Irish conversations,

00:03:55.740 the insults that are levelled against Irish Jews.

00:04:00.380 There aren't many Irish Jews.

00:04:01.980 It is becoming a country that's falling under the spell of anti-Semitism.

00:04:05.840 And that, I think, is awful.

00:04:07.800 Well, I think it's really important to delineate these things.

00:04:11.140 I think the discussion about Israeli behavior in Gaza and the West Bank has reached such fever pitch.

00:04:16.920 I hear friends of mine who I respect conflating disagreements about military tactics with anti-Semitism.

00:04:24.540 And I think that's a bad thing to do, an unwise thing to do,

00:04:27.100 and actually not beneficial to people who want to defend Israel if they choose to do that.

00:04:32.380 But what I'm getting at is you see this with the Ed Sheeran controversy recently.

00:04:36.640 and more broadly, I was curious because perhaps it's an easy leap

00:04:41.840 as an outsider to make, but I sort of go, you know,

00:04:44.640 Ireland has a history of being oppressed by a greater neighbour power,

00:04:51.840 committing some horrific atrocities.

00:04:53.400 I mean, reading about Cromwell and all of this other stuff.

00:04:57.240 And so you kind of go like Francis and I, we have experience with communism,

00:05:01.740 so we are more attuned to that.

00:05:04.040 is a lot of the sentiment that you are talking about

00:05:08.820 driven by this history of objectively being victimised?

00:05:15.000 Yes. Yes and no.

00:05:17.120 I mean, yes, in the sense that that's how Irish people would explain it.

00:05:20.160 They would say the reason we're pro-Palestine,

00:05:22.160 the reason we're pro-Gaza is because of our own history of colonisation,

00:05:26.400 famine, all the terrible things that the Irish suffered

00:05:28.820 under the boot of British rule. 1.00

00:05:31.500 And all of that's true. There's no doubting it.

00:05:34.420 My grandfather used to tell me stories about the town in which he was born,

00:05:39.760 which was burnt down by the British in 1921,

00:05:42.560 kind of quite ceremoniously, joyfully, 0.98

00:05:45.760 they burnt down this Irish town in the west of Ireland. 1.00

00:05:48.440 Loads of people will tell you stories like that, so it's all true.

00:05:52.740 But there is a real strain of ignorance in all of this,

00:05:56.520 because my view is that if people knew the first thing about history, 0.63

00:06:00.260 they would know that Ireland has far more in common with Israel

00:06:03.600 than it does with Hamas-ruled Gaza. 0.85

00:06:07.060 So Ireland and Israel are both very small, very plucky countries.

00:06:12.280 They're both countries that have huge diasporas around the world.

00:06:15.320 People spread to all four corners of the earth.

00:06:18.480 They're both countries that won their national freedom

00:06:20.860 through force of arms against the British Empire.

00:06:23.540 The Irish did it in the 1920s.

00:06:25.240 The Jewish revolutionaries did it in the 1940s.

00:06:28.440 And in fact, historically, there are loads of common connections between the Irish fight for independence and the Jewish fight for independence, to the extent that some of the Jewish revolutionaries of the 1940s gave themselves underground code names that they borrowed from the Irish of the 1920s.

00:06:47.960 Irish books about guerrilla warfare were translated into Hebrew and spread amongst these Jewish revolutionaries fighting against the British Empire.

00:06:56.340 there are so many connections between the Irish fight for independence and the Jewish fight for

00:07:04.000 independence there are so many commonalities but that gets completely forgotten and what you

00:07:08.900 encounter in Dublin in particular but also in the other big cities of Ireland you encounter these

00:07:13.880 kind of incredibly privileged well-educated young people who who align themselves more with a death 0.79

00:07:23.100 cult, Hamas, that murders Jews and rapes Jews for sport, they align more with a movement like that 0.61

00:07:31.380 than they do with the Jewish nation, even though historically speaking, it was well recognized that 0.90

00:07:36.140 the Jewish nation had far more in common with the Irish nation than in terms of differences.

00:07:42.320 So there's a lot of historical ignorance in relation to this.

00:07:45.700 Why is there such a passion and a strength of feeling about this issue in the opposite direction

00:07:50.760 to what you argue is the logical way to look at this?

00:07:53.800 Well, it's partly ignorance.

00:07:55.080 It's partly Ireland has been overrun by a victim culture.

00:07:59.600 Ireland, it's so, to me as a person,

00:08:03.640 a proud person of Irish heritage, 1.00

00:08:06.060 I find it incredibly grating. 1.00

00:08:08.340 But Ireland has become the ultimate victim nation.

00:08:14.140 They are obsessed with the idea

00:08:15.460 that they are the victims of history.

00:08:17.200 They were starved to death by the British.

00:08:19.280 they were colonised by the British. You hear this now, even in relation to the Ed Sheeran thing.

00:08:23.900 Some of the statements that the Irish musicians made when they pulled out of Ed Sheeran's

00:08:28.460 American tour, they said, we know about famine, we know about colonisation. No, you don't.

00:08:33.840 No one in the Republic of Ireland has been colonised or famished for more than 100 years.

00:08:38.660 This is history. But they define themselves through this, they kind of, it's like a form

00:08:44.220 of cultural appropriation or really historical appropriation.

00:08:48.020 They pull on the rags of the starved from the Irish famine of the 1840s

00:08:52.840 in order to feel that kind of allure of victimhood,

00:08:58.280 that kind of shroud of victimhood.

00:09:00.200 It makes them feel good. It makes them feel important.

00:09:02.840 So Ireland has become the victim nation, 0.93

00:09:05.800 and it sees Gaza also as a victim nation, 0.99

00:09:08.860 and they connect on that basis.

00:09:10.780 But it's built on falsehoods. It's not true.

00:09:14.120 It's historically illiterate.

00:09:16.140 And I think it's demeaning to the Republic of Ireland,

00:09:19.800 which fought so long for its independence, 0.98

00:09:22.040 to align itself with a place like Gaza,

00:09:24.260 which is ruled by an army of anti-Semites.

00:09:26.640 I think that's an incredibly demeaning thing.

00:09:28.660 It's interesting you make the point about the 1840s,

00:09:32.300 you know, being from Russia.

00:09:33.780 I'm not sure I even know what was happening in Russia in the 1840s,

00:09:36.520 judging by the general thrust of Russian history.

00:09:38.880 I can't imagine it was great in many ways for a lot of people. 0.64

00:09:43.020 But even for me to claim that, you know, my people have been the victim of czarism now, 0.84

00:09:48.900 and therefore X, Y, therefore Naib Bukele and El Salvador, 0.77

00:09:53.460 who seems to be sort of, you know, unquestionably non-democratic, let's say,

00:09:59.300 or maybe he isn't, I don't know.

00:10:00.540 But for me to make those sorts of leaps just doesn't seem rational.

00:10:04.300 And yet here, this seems to have endured through the ages.

00:10:08.480 Yeah, it's not rational at all.

00:10:10.240 But we see it across the board in Western culture these days.

00:10:13.900 People will dip into the horrors of history

00:10:16.100 to find some costume that they can wear,

00:10:18.980 some idea that they can embrace for themselves. 0.74

00:10:22.340 You know, black activists in the Western world

00:10:24.180 will talk about slavery, for example,

00:10:25.840 having never experienced it.

00:10:27.280 They will accuse people like us because we're white.

00:10:30.020 Well, you know, you're kind of white. 0.85

00:10:32.780 You know, benefiting from slavery. 0.81

00:10:35.320 We never owned slaves and they were never slaves.

00:10:38.180 That's the starting point of the discussion.

00:10:40.240 And that's got to be the starting point of the discussion about Ireland as well.

00:10:43.800 No one in Ireland right now, as we speak, has been starved to death or colonised by a foreign power,

00:10:49.900 unless you include the European Union, but that's a whole other conversation.

00:10:53.260 So it is that sense of plundering the horrors of history in order to look in a desperate search

00:11:01.160 for some kind of sense of victimhood, because victimhood is the currency of our era.

00:11:06.140 You know, you don't get ahead in life these days by being autonomous and ambitious and self-willed and confident.

00:11:13.400 You get ahead by saying, I'm a victim. I've suffered. I need state resources. I need sympathy. I need your help.

00:11:20.240 That's unfortunately, in my view, the way in which you make your impact in the world these days. 1.00

00:11:25.060 And the Irish have made an art of that and they plunder history. 1.00

00:11:29.660 They plunder the genuinely awful things that were done to their great, great, great, great grandfathers. 1.00

00:11:34.740 and they borrow that in order to make themselves look like victims today,

00:11:38.400 I think it's actually quite sick.

00:11:39.900 What's weird about it to me is Francis and I have been over to Ireland

00:11:43.100 a number of times, and actually this portion of my life

00:11:45.620 in terms of my career actually started in Ireland.

00:11:48.160 So I had a very good friend of mine who used to run

00:11:50.800 a comedy and economics festival called Kilkenomics

00:11:55.040 and used to invite comedians to host debates

00:11:58.300 between economists and political figures, and I used to go over.

00:12:01.360 And none of the stuff you were talking about I have ever experienced

00:12:04.620 from any person i've met in ireland my impression of ireland when you know eight years ago nine

00:12:09.740 years ago whenever we started this was uh what would i say i'd say a nation of storytellers

00:12:15.980 hilarious funny warm people people who were expressly anti-extremist anti-political uh just

00:12:24.780 get along with each other no grandiosity to them none of this and definitely no victimhood to me

00:12:31.580 it was almost surprising how little how little people how little animosity that would have been

00:12:36.300 to people coming over from england for a festival or anything like that i was shocked actually by

00:12:40.380 that so for that maybe i was just blind maybe i didn't see certain things but for this transformation

00:12:45.180 to have happened in this period of time is remarkable to me yeah i think it was probably

00:12:49.180 beginning at the time you're talking about but it's really snowballed over the past 10 years i

00:12:53.580 would say you know ireland used to define itself by anti-colonialism particularly through 1916.

00:12:59.660 1916 is the year in which the Irish people first made their strike for independence from the British Empire.

00:13:05.480 They took over the general post office in Dublin.

00:13:08.720 And basically, that's the starting point of the Irish nation.

00:13:12.500 They used to define themselves through that.

00:13:14.880 But now they increasingly define themselves through something like the Irish famine of the 1840s,

00:13:20.320 because that's the historical moment through which you can claim victimhood.

00:13:25.520 whereas the period of the 1910s and the 1920s is all about heroism,

00:13:31.400 standing up for yourself, fighting back,

00:13:33.320 and that's become increasingly unfashionable.

00:13:35.680 So that part of Irish history is slightly being parked

00:13:38.300 and it's also complicated by the fact that the ideal of sovereignty

00:13:42.620 is now increasingly out of favour, 0.98

00:13:45.300 not only in Britain where sovereignty has been shot to shit

00:13:48.840 as far as I can tell, but also in Ireland 0.98

00:13:50.640 which has completely subsumed itself into the European Union.

00:13:54.280 Sovereignty is seen as this old-fashioned, nationalistic, dangerous idea.

00:13:58.440 So it's increasingly difficult for them to celebrate the War of Independence

00:14:02.960 because that was all about fighting for sovereignty.

00:14:06.940 So they increasingly look for moments in Irish history where they were victims,

00:14:10.340 where they were just oppressed, where they were dehumanised,

00:14:12.920 and there are many of them for them to pick from.

00:14:15.100 So there's been a real subtle shift in the way in which the Irish conceive of themselves,

00:14:20.480 even historically, in order that they might make a claim

00:14:24.860 in the current realm of victim politics.

00:14:27.220 And I think that's really what's happened.

00:14:28.840 We had a conversation a couple of weeks ago about this, Brendan,

00:14:33.400 and you made the point that you think that it's a really interesting point.

00:14:37.120 It's something that I've been mulling over for weeks, actually,

00:14:39.880 which is wokeism always hits hardest in a post-Catholic country.

00:14:45.400 And you gave the example of Spain and Ireland.

00:14:47.200 And so let's talk about that, because I think that's really interesting to delve into.

00:14:51.880 Yeah, something's going on with these Catholic countries, you know, because Ireland and Spain have both become very woke countries,

00:14:59.520 both become countries that have basically thrown open their borders to whoever wants to come in.

00:15:06.000 I mean, the statistics in Ireland are staggering. Around 20 percent of people in Ireland were born outside of Ireland.

00:15:14.380 I mean, it is genuinely extraordinary.

00:15:16.100 Now, just to be clear, a lot of those are people like me,

00:15:20.100 people who were born outside of Ireland to Irish parents,

00:15:22.960 and then they go home as they see it. 0.66

00:15:25.340 And I know people who've done that.

00:15:26.600 So that 20% of Irish people are not, of people in Ireland,

00:15:30.920 are not all people from Eritrea or from Syria or whatever else.

00:15:35.120 There are a significant section of Irish people born overseas.

00:15:38.620 But that's astounding, the fact that in this tiny country

00:15:42.240 of a population of 5 million people,

00:15:44.040 20% were born outside of Ireland.

00:15:46.660 Spain is similar.

00:15:47.620 Spain seems to not give a damn about its borders.

00:15:50.440 It just kind of, you know, we've seen the invasion.

00:15:53.860 I think that's an appropriate word to use in this situation. 1.00

00:15:57.120 From Sueta, in terms of people pouring over the border,

00:16:00.280 tens of thousands of people.

00:16:03.040 And both those countries as well have become very woke.

00:16:05.660 Both of them are super pro-trans, for example. 0.96

00:16:09.140 Both of them are very self-flagellating

00:16:11.440 in terms of historical issues.

00:16:13.580 Both of them have embraced the politics of victimhood. 1.00

00:16:16.660 There is something about Catholic nations 0.59

00:16:19.600 then shifting towards being woke nations.

00:16:22.440 And I think it's really clear in Ireland

00:16:23.760 because it seems to me that what's happened in Ireland

00:16:26.280 is that it's gone from being a Catholic country

00:16:28.660 to a woke country.

00:16:30.180 It's gone from organising itself around the Catholic religion

00:16:33.300 to organise itself around the woke religion. 0.55

00:16:35.220 And there was no breathing space in between that. 0.71

00:16:37.760 It just went from one to the other very, very quickly.

00:16:41.020 And in relation to the Israel question, which is so pertinent in Ireland right now, 0.70

00:16:47.320 it feels to me that Israel has become almost like a Satan substitute for a post-Catholic country like Ireland.

00:16:54.820 Because I remember growing up, I grew up in London, of course, but I went to Ireland all the time. 0.66

00:16:59.920 We were always told to fear the devil and to love God. 0.97

00:17:03.100 And in Ireland in the old days, people don't believe me, but it's absolutely true.

00:17:06.480 there would be statues of the Virgin Mary on the side of the road. And if you drove past one,

00:17:11.440 you had to stop your car and you got out and you did a little prayer. All of those very ritualistic

00:17:16.280 expressions of Catholic faith existed for a long time. It seems to me that the Israelophobia, 0.58

00:17:23.000 the hatred for Israel, this venomous loathing for the Jewish homeland has become a kind of

00:17:28.480 substitute for that, a substitute idea of good and evil. And the idea of evil now is Israel. 0.51

00:17:35.560 The idea of good is the Palestinian people and literally the chattering classes in Dublin in particular, but also many people across Ireland have reorganised their moral compass around this very simplistic black and white and I would say false dichotomy between Israel and the Palestinians. 0.90

00:17:55.360 And so I think what's happened in some Catholic states, similarly in Spain, is that they've embraced the Gaza issue because they're looking for a replacement for the simplicities of the Catholic faith and they found it in this. 0.76

00:18:08.520 But it's also as well, the Catholic faith, I always quite find the Church of England quite funny actually as somebody who was raised Catholic because people go now, oh, it doesn't represent anything, it's always, it's milquetoast. 0.89

00:18:20.720 I'm like, compared to the Catholics, it's always been milquetoast. 0.52

00:18:23.500 You know, it's such, at its most honest, it's such a powerful religion. 0.99

00:18:31.060 And when you look at Ireland, it had its grip everywhere.

00:18:35.280 It wasn't just on people's behavior.

00:18:36.960 It was the politics.

00:18:38.640 It was the way that your week was structured, the way that you thought.

00:18:42.440 If you rip that out, I mean, you're left with a ruddy great vacuum at the center of your society.

00:18:49.040 That is so correct.

00:18:50.920 And I think people underestimate, and I probably contribute to their underestimation

00:18:56.220 because I say post-Catholic Ireland, but the extent to which the Catholic faith

00:19:00.500 reached into every aspect of life was just staggering.

00:19:05.080 I hear it from my parents.

00:19:06.880 My father, who's still alive, tells me about this.

00:19:10.040 You went to Catholic school, of course.

00:19:11.880 You were educated by priests and nuns. 0.99

00:19:13.420 They beat the shit out of you if you stepped out of line. 0.99

00:19:16.300 You went to mass every Sunday. 0.99

00:19:18.340 The priest would read out the names of people who had failed to come to Mass

00:19:22.660 because they were hungover or whatever.

00:19:24.940 The priest would keep a log of how much you had contributed

00:19:27.700 to the offering that went around,

00:19:29.480 whether you gave 50p or £1 or whatever it was.

00:19:34.480 Everything was organised around the Catholic faith.

00:19:37.240 Every single facet of life, social life, sexual life, political life, everything. 0.50

00:19:44.520 When that goes, and the Catholic faith has been falling in Ireland

00:19:48.180 since really the 1980s and now it's completely gone

00:19:50.780 because of various scandals and so on, you need a replacement.

00:19:55.460 You can't just go from being organised around one faith

00:19:58.280 to having nothing at all.

00:19:59.860 So yeah, there is a real moral vacuum,

00:20:02.520 or there has been a real moral vacuum in Ireland, 0.97

00:20:04.640 and sadly it's been filled by this dross. 0.81

00:20:07.880 That's what's happening.

00:20:09.160 And I think the Ed Sheeran thing really demonstrates this

00:20:12.120 because the response to him in Ireland has been just mind-blowing.

00:20:17.440 For people who may not have followed this,

00:20:19.000 which may not be a lot of people because it became a big story,

00:20:21.840 just tell everybody what happened and what the reaction was, et cetera.

00:20:25.120 Yeah, so Ed Sheeran is doing his...

00:20:27.800 I've got a soft spot for Ed Sheeran because I'm getting on in age,

00:20:31.080 so I like this kind of middle-of-the-road acoustic music.

00:20:34.960 He's doing this American tour, and Macklemore,

00:20:39.100 or Macklemore, there's so much disagreement on how you pronounce his name,

00:20:42.120 The kind of hip, woke rapper in America was thrown off this tour

00:20:47.080 because he went into a couple of, he was a support act for Ed Sheeran

00:20:51.460 and he opened a couple of his shows in New Jersey by saying 0.99

00:20:55.160 Free Palestine, Genocide, blah, blah, blah, all the usual crap. 0.98

00:20:59.060 And then various stadium owners said, well, we don't want this. 0.98

00:21:02.740 We don't want our stadiums to become anti-Israel rallies.

00:21:06.080 So Ed Sheeran, you've got to get rid of him.

00:21:08.360 Now, I am uncomfortable with that because, like you guys, I'm not favourable of cancel culture.

00:21:17.300 If you have an advertised act, you should stick with that act, regardless of what they say.

00:21:22.780 That's my view.

00:21:24.920 However, it blew up.

00:21:26.180 And then what became clear to me is that it wasn't Macklemore who's being cancelled.

00:21:30.320 He's all over the place.

00:21:31.200 You can't shut him up.

00:21:32.020 And that's fine.

00:21:33.240 He can say whatever he wants.

00:21:34.800 It's Ed Sheeran.

00:21:36.300 The venom visited on Ed Sheeran has been staggering.

00:21:40.920 The demonization of him on the internet,

00:21:44.060 the fact that there were protests at some of his gigs,

00:21:47.080 his subsequent gigs,

00:21:48.840 the fact that he said in one of his statements

00:21:51.820 that his own family has turned on him,

00:21:55.020 that's when you really know you're dealing with a cult,

00:21:57.620 when your own family turns against you

00:21:59.520 because you aren't bowing down to the commandments,

00:22:01.860 you aren't saying the right things,

00:22:03.220 You haven't embraced the ideology as fully as they would like you to.

00:22:07.960 So there has been this monstering of Ed Sheeran for failing to bow down to the Free Palestine movement.

00:22:13.880 And I think that more than anything else we've seen over the past three years

00:22:17.540 has demonstrated that the Free Palestine movement has become a political, neo-religious cult. 0.74

00:22:24.320 It's like McCarthyism in a kefir.

00:22:27.040 You have to imbibe all of this stuff or you risk being punished.

00:22:32.540 and it's played out really dramatically in Ireland

00:22:35.360 where one radio station removed Ed Sheeran's songs.

00:22:39.340 They said we're not playing him anymore

00:22:40.560 because of his sins of failing to speak out.

00:22:43.920 Politicians condemned him, literal politicians

00:22:46.420 who should have other things to worry about.

00:22:49.040 There have been newspaper articles saying

00:22:51.060 he's no longer welcome in Ireland. 1.00

00:22:53.600 He needs to rescind his Irishness 1.00

00:22:55.360 because his grandparents are Irish. 1.00

00:22:57.340 They've basically unpersoned him

00:22:59.300 for the supposed moral crime of failing to be enthusiastically anti-Israel and I think that's

00:23:09.000 when you know that you are dealing with not a real political movement certainly not a peace

00:23:13.700 movement but a cult around which influential sections of society have organized themselves

00:23:19.400 and so I just feel increasingly sympathetic for Ed Sheeran that he has become the kind of

00:23:23.940 bête noire off this lunatic movement. I'm going to be honest with you. I used to think grilling

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00:25:25.540 As someone who has Irish family,

00:25:27.760 one of the things I always associated with them

00:25:30.360 was they were, essentially,

00:25:33.180 there was a real freedom of thought culture to Ireland.

00:25:36.900 The number of times someone said something

00:25:39.400 and I thought, right, this is going to kick off.

00:25:41.420 and it invariably does, and there'd be back and forth to it,

00:25:44.600 and someone would say this, and someone would say that,

00:25:46.780 someone would then burst into tears, all the rest of it.

00:25:49.440 But you look at it now, and it's a completely different culture.

00:25:53.500 Like you said, it's a uniformity of thought.

00:25:55.920 And to me, who was exposed to something completely different,

00:25:59.720 it's quite bizarre.

00:26:01.680 Yeah.

00:26:03.100 I feel the exact same.

00:26:04.960 I grew up in an Irish part of London in the 1980s, the 1990s,

00:26:09.920 like a really Irish part of London so the school I went to which was a convent school

00:26:14.840 like 90% of the kids were Irish heritage everywhere I went whether it was swimming lessons

00:26:20.820 church school disco everyone was Irish we only ever met Irish people so we didn't integrate 1.00

00:26:27.740 particularly well but that's another story and the culture as it existed then was quite contrarian 0.98

00:26:36.320 The Irish were known for being quite outspoken,

00:26:39.160 for shooting from the hip. 0.88

00:26:40.960 Literally.

00:26:42.480 Well, yeah, exactly. There was also that stuff.

00:26:45.200 And it did become a bit of a caricature,

00:26:47.780 you know, the fighting Irish, you know, 1.00

00:26:49.400 shooting off their mouth and every Irish person 0.83

00:26:52.560 was seen as a kind of Brendan Behan,

00:26:54.620 who was this 1950s, 1960s Irish author

00:26:57.300 who was an alcoholic and used to say crazy things.

00:27:01.160 There was a tendency to see all Irish people

00:27:03.400 as being like that. 0.99

00:27:05.180 But there was some truth to it as well, 0.98

00:27:07.220 which is that the Irish were pretty free-thinking 1.00

00:27:09.480 because of the culture they came from,

00:27:11.500 which was an anti-colonial culture,

00:27:13.180 a culture that valued freedom,

00:27:14.820 a culture that valued sovereignty.

00:27:16.920 So they were pretty free-wheeling and free-speaking.

00:27:19.740 That's gone. That has gone.

00:27:22.900 And, you know, I go to the...

00:27:25.200 I talk about Dublin. I slag off Dublin all the time.

00:27:27.560 My parents are from the extreme west coast of Ireland,

00:27:30.140 a beautiful place called Connemara,

00:27:32.400 most beautiful place in the world.

00:27:34.040 No offence to Russia, or Croydon, or Venezuela, or... 0.98

00:27:39.520 Destroyed, mate. 0.59

00:27:40.620 No offence to any of those places.

00:27:42.440 Connemara is the most beautiful place in the world.

00:27:44.240 But even there, I was cycling there recently,

00:27:47.880 and I cycled past a field of sheep.

00:27:49.820 I'm not making this up. 0.90

00:27:50.940 And there was a Palestine flag in the middle. 0.88

00:27:53.120 And I genuinely thought to myself, sheep for Palestine, 0.98

00:27:56.780 which is like the perfect summation of all of this. 0.89

00:27:59.520 So even there, you'll go to a pub in the extreme... 0.96

00:28:01.940 Like the first pub I ever got drunk in, which is on the very west coast of Ireland, has a Palestine flag flying outside of it. 1.00

00:28:08.060 So this is a pretty widespread phenomenon in Ireland, and it's so stifling. 1.00

00:28:13.660 It's so suffocating. You feel that you can't say, if you're pro-Israel, which I am, you feel that you can't say it.

00:28:21.860 So Ireland has about 3,000 Jews, and I know some of them, and they feel even more stifled 1.00

00:28:27.880 because they feel that they can't express themselves honestly, fairly,

00:28:31.840 that's a pretty bad position for Irish Jews and Ireland to be in.

00:28:36.120 I never had... This was an observation.

00:28:38.320 I was going to make it into a joke, but it was an observation.

00:28:40.880 But I think there's real truth about the observation. 0.70

00:28:42.880 And basically, the Irish are the Latinos of Europe. 1.00

00:28:46.360 You like dancing, you like a row, you like a party, 0.99

00:28:50.780 and you also like a bit of political extremism.

00:28:52.960 And Ireland has that undercurrent to it.

00:28:57.880 How much of this do you think, and as someone who's saying this has noted it and seen it in the culture, both in Latin America and Ireland, how much of it do you think is a temperamental thing?

00:29:09.100 The identification, the romanticisation of the rebel or the terrorist organisation or whatever it is you want to call it.

00:29:18.580 Yeah, there's an element of that for sure, but it's become like a caricature of itself.

00:29:23.080 like kneecap is a good example 0.90

00:29:25.760 of this, those three arseholes from 0.97

00:29:27.600 Northern Ireland, one of them 0.99

00:29:29.740 wears a tree-coloured tea cosy on his head

00:29:31.660 and he's almost 40

00:29:33.640 and he's a former school teacher

00:29:35.020 No offence to former school teachers

00:29:37.700 If you want to talk about

00:29:39.480 extremes, alcoholism

00:29:41.580 and all sorts of other

00:29:43.440 dysfunction, look at teachers

00:29:44.820 But kneecap's a good example of the kind of thing

00:29:47.380 I'm thinking about, which is that

00:29:49.380 it's this kind of

00:29:51.480 glorification of

00:29:53.080 extremism without being extreme if that makes sense so kneecap are the most celebrated act

00:30:00.520 in ireland the guardian loves them rte which is ireland's version of the bbc loves them

00:30:06.020 gushes over them constantly if you read some of the guardian coverage of kneecap you will

00:30:11.200 literally cringe it's so fawning um every bourgeois tit in london loves them goes to their gigs and 0.83

00:30:18.520 jumps up and down all right hezbollah it's become incredibly ridiculous and performative so yes 0.55

00:30:24.580 there's an element of that there's an element of kind of celebrating the extremists but it's become 0.80

00:30:28.880 just so absurd um and insane and i think that's an element of it but then if you look at you know

00:30:37.540 kneecap for example are alleged to have said up hezbollah up hamas i mean there's video footage

00:30:43.680 of this but you know you we say they are alleged to have said that um see for me that's a problem

00:30:50.500 because hezbollah and hamas in my view are genuinely far-right organizations they are

00:30:57.540 genuinely organizations that are all pretty much organized around their loathing for jewish people

00:31:02.600 their loathing for the jewish state hezbollah has openly said that all the jews of the holy land 0.83

00:31:08.200 need to be expelled and sent back to Europe. Hamas has a constitution which is devoted to

00:31:14.980 exterminating the Jewish nation and therefore expelling the Jews from that part of the world. 0.97

00:31:19.800 These are incredibly racist movements, violently racist movements. And I often think to myself, 0.94

00:31:27.080 if there was a rap act or a pop act that had said up the KKK or, you know, victory to the

00:31:34.640 neo-Nazis, would they be...

00:31:36.280 We'd call him Kanye West.

00:31:38.600 Kanye West is the outlier.

00:31:40.740 Although I think he's had this episode,

00:31:42.660 he's back to normal now.

00:31:44.200 With him, it genuinely was a kind of mental health

00:31:46.680 process. I take your point, which is,

00:31:48.360 if that had happened... If that had happened, you wouldn't

00:31:50.680 see these shoreditch arseholes 1.00

00:31:52.540 jumping up and down and saying, whoop, whoop, we love 1.00

00:31:54.680 them. Of course you wouldn't.

00:31:56.500 So that's the broader question, 0.98

00:31:58.320 which is that Jews don't matter, as 0.93

00:32:00.580 David Baddiel has said, to those 0.81

00:32:02.540 people in the identitarian landscape. 0.78

00:32:04.640 Jews don't get a look in because they're seen as being hyper white and at the top of the 0.97

00:32:08.840 privileged ladder and therefore we don't care about them so there's so much hypocrisy so much 0.99

00:32:13.700 ridiculousness but I do think there's an element where it's a celebration of extremism but it's

00:32:21.940 become incredibly conformist if that makes sense so it's a contradictory thing I think I think we

00:32:27.280 also have to acknowledge that we were talking before we started I mean I'm not saying that

00:32:32.580 I necessarily know how Israel should behave

00:32:35.940 in its communications with the rest of the world.

00:32:38.320 But I think we can all agree, you know,

00:32:40.760 there's different aspects to war.

00:32:42.400 One of them is kinetic, but another one is public communication.

00:32:46.180 And they've absolutely lost that part of it.

00:32:48.600 And by the way, some, you know, I don't know if Yair Netanyahu's,

00:32:52.860 Benjamin Netanyahu's son is, you know,

00:32:54.880 he's a public figure by virtue of being the son of Benjamin Netanyahu.

00:32:59.100 But he goes around basically saying things on Twitter about how, you know, the Maldives, not the Maldives, the Falklands are part of Argentina and all this stuff. 0.91

00:33:09.120 And I just think, I appreciate that for domestic Israeli consumption, this might be a good thing. 0.99

00:33:13.960 But you just look like an asshole and you irritate your friends in the West who are trying to say, to be honest about this situation and try and persuade people. 0.99

00:33:23.240 And, of course, you're giving ammunition to your enemies in the West. 1.00

00:33:26.440 That's one part of it.

00:33:27.320 another part of it though is let's be honest is technology i mean i don't believe if you're a

00:33:33.000 person with a normal brain it's possible to be rational in the face of video footage of babies

00:33:39.840 being blown up or you know children being pulled out of rubble by their parents or whatever i just

00:33:45.920 i think at that point it becomes you cease to be objective and you react to the horror of it which

00:33:51.520 is perfectly normal human reaction and then you cease to ask the correct question in my opinion

00:33:57.940 which is who is responsible for this baby being pulled out of rubble and i think for a lot of

00:34:03.840 young people who've never thought about war conflict have never had to deal with it in their

00:34:09.120 own lives whose parents have never had to deal with have never told them about any of this

00:34:12.980 we are generations away from that sort of conflict in the west certainly and we're insulated therefore

00:34:19.560 from those realities, so when we see that,

00:34:23.380 it's far more persuasive than any argument

00:34:25.840 Brendan O'Neill or Benjamin Netanyahu

00:34:28.800 or anyone who seeks to contextualise Israel's response

00:34:33.180 to October 7th, which is what we're talking about.

00:34:36.080 There's a power imbalance between the visual medium

00:34:40.260 and the logical argumentation.

00:34:43.820 Yeah, I think that's true.

00:34:45.720 You know, the moral pornography of war,

00:34:47.720 and it's been incredibly pronounced in relation to the Gaza conflict

00:34:51.700 because it is so viral, it's spread so widely

00:34:55.240 and we've got a whole new generation.

00:34:58.560 Of all people, Hillary Clinton made this point. 0.69

00:35:01.000 We've got a whole new generation who opened their phone 1.00

00:35:03.380 and because of the algorithmic prejudices,

00:35:06.780 they are fed this stuff 24-7.

00:35:09.680 So all they see when they look at their phone 1.00

00:35:11.900 is the Jewish state killing children 0.99

00:35:14.880 and they think oh Jews kill children and it's incredibly dangerous in my view because we know 0.99

00:35:22.980 that there have been conflicts over the past three years since 7th of October in Sudan for example

00:35:29.540 other parts of the world in which more people have been killed than have died in Gaza and we

00:35:35.400 don't see it no one gives a damn about that because they're obsessed with this one conflict

00:35:39.060 but it's like you know the thing that strikes me I've been thinking about this for a while

00:35:42.980 is that all the things that people used to say about the Jews,

00:35:48.960 they now say about the Jewish state. 1.00

00:35:50.860 So they used to say the Jews love killing children. 1.00

00:35:53.300 They drain their blood, they make bread with it. 1.00

00:35:56.100 Now they say the Jewish state loves killing children. 1.00

00:35:58.220 The obsession with Zionist baby killers is remarkable. 0.99

00:36:03.100 And we've had actual demonstrations in the UK 0.97

00:36:05.540 where people have marched through the streets

00:36:07.280 holding dolls wearing bloodied shrouds 0.99

00:36:10.940 and saying the Jewish state kills children. 0.99

00:36:13.560 They used to say the Jews control the world. 0.99

00:36:15.840 They had their fingers in all the pies. 1.00

00:36:17.580 They were the secret puppet masters of politics and finance. 0.93

00:36:20.840 They now say that about the Jewish state.

00:36:22.780 They say the Jewish state has got America and Europe eating out of the palm of its hands.

00:36:27.440 They used to say that the Jews were the block to world peace.

00:36:31.180 If only they didn't exist, then everything would be hunky-dory. 1.00

00:36:34.020 The world would be fine. 1.00

00:36:35.340 People now openly say that about the Jewish state. 0.79

00:36:38.660 They openly say that the liberation of mankind depends on the liberation of Palestine.

00:36:44.680 That is literally their slogan. 0.96

00:36:46.640 So if only the Jewish nation would take its boot off Palestine's neck as they see it, 0.87

00:36:51.180 then we would all be free. 0.91

00:36:52.640 This kind of rehabilitation of that ancient prejudice that the Jews are holding humanity back. 0.95

00:36:58.960 So they expect us to think it's a coincidence that all the stuff that peasants and bigots 0.98

00:37:05.120 and lunatics and fascists and nazis used to say about the jews they now say about the jewish 0.81

00:37:11.360 homeland but i'm not willing to accept that that's a coincidence i think we're witnessing the 0.98

00:37:15.440 rehabilitation in a kind of pseudo progressive pseudo political language of some pretty ugly

00:37:21.360 ancient prejudices um and you were saying earlier that you know it's important to maintain a

00:37:27.620 distinction between people who are critical of israel and people who are anti-semitic completely

00:37:30.960 agree. But in relation to anti-Zionism, I just think anyone who defines their political

00:37:39.200 personality by their opposition to Jewish sovereignty, I'm going to be suspicious of

00:37:44.760 that person. If your every waking hour is consumed by thoughts of the wickedness of the Jewish 1.00

00:37:49.920 homeland and the desirability of erasing the Jewish homeland all the way from the river to the 0.90

00:37:54.780 and this notion that Jewish sovereignty is uniquely barbarous,

00:37:59.800 unlike British sovereignty or Lithuanian sovereignty or whatever else,

00:38:03.720 Jewish sovereignty is the problem in the world,

00:38:07.260 then I'm going to say that you are a bigot 0.99

00:38:09.940 and you have a problem with Jewish people. 0.80

00:38:12.600 And so I do think we are living through a situation

00:38:17.560 where anti-Zionism is becoming the key means

00:38:20.620 through which old anti-Semitic prejudices are being expressed.

00:38:23.800 And untangling that is difficult and, I think, quite important. 1.00

00:38:27.660 Well, I do think that's true for some people,

00:38:29.920 and I think the sort of anti-Semites coming out of the woodwork 0.91

00:38:32.920 has been revelatory, if such a word is appropriate. 0.93

00:38:37.080 But I also worry a little bit, Brendan, and I said this earlier,

00:38:40.840 that people, it's kind of what people did with the word racist a while back,

00:38:46.480 where there's, you're painting, not you personally,

00:38:49.660 but some people are painting with a little too broad a brush.

00:38:52.100 I can logically get myself to a place that you are describing

00:38:56.300 without thinking that that place is anti-Semitic.

00:38:58.740 So here's how I would get there.

00:39:00.540 I would take a mid-level IQ woke white girl living in Britain. 0.53

00:39:08.240 I would feed her a daily dose of footage of some of it real,

00:39:15.620 some of it staged, you know, Hollywood is a real thing,

00:39:18.480 but also, you know, Gaza is being bombed all the time, right?

00:39:22.660 So that's also happening.

00:39:24.160 People being killed, the consequences of bombing,

00:39:27.700 the aftermath of war, all of that stuff.

00:39:30.220 I would feed that to them on a daily basis.

00:39:32.640 And then I would feed them a version of history,

00:39:35.640 which is a pretty conventional view of the creation of the state of Israel,

00:39:41.140 which is, here was this ancient land called Palestine,

00:39:44.100 and then Churchill or whoever sent in a bunch of Jews from Poland

00:39:50.340 and they took this land and formed a country called Israel.

00:39:53.980 They kicked out its native inhabitants

00:39:55.500 because they wanted the land for themselves.

00:39:58.640 Now, all of that is deeply ignorant of the realities on the ground

00:40:03.640 as we've come to understand them

00:40:04.960 through interviewing both pro-Palestine and pro-Israel people.

00:40:08.280 But if you give somebody that,

00:40:10.940 they may have no hatred or malice in their heart for Jews, 0.51

00:40:13.880 which is what I interpret antisemitism to be,

00:40:16.060 just like racism is, antipathy towards people

00:40:18.520 because of the color of their skin.

00:40:20.420 And yet they arrive in exactly the position

00:40:22.300 that you talk about.

00:40:23.480 And I worry personally that sometimes people

00:40:27.440 who are so convinced about the Israeli cause 1.00

00:40:29.840 being just and right go to the place 0.53

00:40:32.840 of calling those things antisemitic so quickly

00:40:35.220 that we never give, you know,

00:40:37.500 maybe it's a big ask of people,

00:40:39.020 but we never give the benefit of the doubt 1.00

00:40:40.480 to the stupid girl who's been fed war footage 1.00

00:40:43.240 all day every day just saying i i tried that for a very very long time i was one of those people 1.00

00:40:51.180 who argued for a very long time that we need to maintain an incredibly clear moral distinction

00:40:55.700 between anti-semitism and not liking israel um because people are perfectly at liberty to hate

00:41:03.500 a country that's within their rights and so on um i did that for years and years and years but

00:41:08.840 For me, it fell apart in the aftermath of 7th of October

00:41:12.600 because I think it was Howard Jacobson,

00:41:16.240 the great British Jewish novelist,

00:41:18.820 who said that everyone says you have the right to criticise Israel. 0.99

00:41:22.420 Of course you do.

00:41:23.320 You can say, I don't like his food, it's too hot, 1.00

00:41:26.320 I think it's government, it's crap, 1.00

00:41:27.820 I think Netanyahu is the son of a bitch. 1.00

00:41:29.660 You can say all of those things. 1.00

00:41:31.520 But he made the point that they're not criticising Israel, 0.59

00:41:34.640 they're actively agitating for its removal from the family of nations. 0.77

00:41:40.960 And that is what people are doing.

00:41:42.620 That is what From the River to the Sea means.

00:41:44.980 It means that a state called Israel will no longer exist.

00:41:48.480 So it's something else.

00:41:50.200 Now, I've been against so many wars over the past 20 years,

00:41:53.660 and I'm sure some of your viewers will agree with me on some of them

00:41:56.060 and disagree with me on others.

00:41:57.860 I was against the Iraq War of 2003.

00:42:00.100 I even thought the Afghan War of 2001, 0.80

00:42:03.100 even though I think America perfectly had the right to respond to 9-11.

00:42:06.940 I even think that was a bit crazy because America was essentially punishing Afghan peasants 0.72

00:42:11.720 for crimes committed by Saudi rich boys. 0.61

00:42:13.960 So even that was a war that I felt uncomfortable with. 0.94

00:42:17.240 But not once did I say, destroy Iraq, wipe it from the face of the earth. 1.00

00:42:22.020 These are the most evil people who ever existed. 0.88

00:42:24.580 Not once did I say that about the Americans who were fighting against the Iraqis. 1.00

00:42:29.840 Not once did I say America is scum of the earth, get rid of them. 0.97

00:42:34.340 I didn't say it about Britain, which was involved in those wars. 0.99

00:42:36.980 I didn't say Britain is an illegitimate state, horrible, blah, blah, blah.

00:42:40.620 You missed your chance, mate. 0.83

00:42:41.740 I know, I should have. I should have.

00:42:44.260 So there's something going on here which feels really ugly

00:42:49.300 and makes me feel very uncomfortable.

00:42:51.440 But I think, you know, in terms of the benefit of the doubt,

00:42:57.200 I agree with you to a certain extent

00:42:59.100 because people are being bombarded morning, noon and night with this stuff.

00:43:03.240 But I do think we have to have an expectation of reason

00:43:08.160 and an expectation that people should be, ought to be,

00:43:13.060 able to distinguish between truth and fiction.

00:43:17.860 You know, the idea that what's happening in Gaza is a genocide

00:43:20.820 is an obvious fiction.

00:43:23.980 And anyone who looks at the numbers and looks at the statistics will see that.

00:43:28.500 give us a bit more why do you say it's an obvious fiction what would be what's your best argument

00:43:34.100 uh against this for you the main argument i would make is that it's the the the best estimates are

00:43:41.780 that around three percent of the population in gaza have been killed which is unspeakably tragic no

00:43:47.140 one would deny that which is why hamas should not have started this war um there are other wars 0.72

00:43:54.580 in the past 10 or 15 years in which a higher percentage of the population has been killed

00:44:00.100 than that um and we don't call them genocides um and then i think what's happening is and then of

00:44:06.500 course there is the whole question of what israel's intention is is its intention to wipe out the

00:44:10.980 palestinian people or is its intention to defeat hamas i think its intention is to defeat hamas

00:44:16.740 and i also think that's an honorable intention so i find myself in the incredibly difficult

00:44:21.540 position of thinking that the war in Gaza is not only not a genocide but is also a pretty heroic

00:44:26.980 war and the people who say that are infinitesimally small in number but I think that in the sense that

00:44:34.180 what we have here is a Jewish army a largely Jewish army fighting against an army of anti-Semites

00:44:41.220 and saying to them listen it's not 1492 it's not 1942 you can't kill Jews with impunity anymore 0.70

00:44:50.960 If you invade the Jewish nation in the 2020s 1.00

00:44:55.160 and rape and murder more than 1,000 Jews, 1.00

00:44:58.240 there are consequences. 1.00

00:45:00.440 I think it's incredibly positive,

00:45:02.800 however awful the war in Gaza is,

00:45:04.700 and everyone knows it's awful, 1.00

00:45:06.380 I think it's incredibly positive 1.00

00:45:07.760 that there are now consequences for killing Jews. 0.96

00:45:10.480 Because for most of human history, there wasn't. 0.98

00:45:13.320 For most of human history, you could do it with impunity.

00:45:17.240 The blood libel, for example,

00:45:18.440 The idea that Jews kill children and use their blood to make bread, which was born in Norwich, of all places, that led to the massacre of Jews with impunity.

00:45:27.560 And then, of course, in the 1930s, 1940s, Jews were killed with impunity.

00:45:32.360 It was only after the war that some people suffered for what they did.

00:45:36.140 We now have a situation where if you kill Jews, you might yourself be killed. 0.98

00:45:43.040 That's a positive, humanist, progressive development. 0.69

00:45:47.540 But it's so difficult to look through the weeds of what people say about the Gaza war,

00:45:53.580 what they say about that region of the world.

00:45:55.800 It's difficult to untangle all of that and say, actually, there is something positive here,

00:45:59.860 which is that for the first time ever, pretty much, human society now thinks, 0.99

00:46:05.760 well, some of us do, that there should be quite severe consequences for raping and murdering Jewish people. 0.97

00:46:11.340 And that's completely lost on exactly the kind of person you're describing, 0.99

00:46:15.640 the you know the the wide-eyed western activist thinks of herself as very progressive wears a

00:46:20.840 kefir is bombarded with this stuff every day that's lost on them and that's partly a failure

00:46:27.000 of people like me i guess maybe people like us we haven't convinced them sufficiently

00:46:32.200 to see things in a broader scope but it's true that um there is something about the gaza war

00:46:38.440 in all its horror that also speaks to a positive turning point in human history, 0.72

00:46:45.540 which is that when you kill Jews now, the consequence is war. 0.98

00:46:50.880 I assumed selling the merch would be the hard part of running the trigonometry store. 0.98

00:46:55.420 It isn't. Checkout is. And Shopify had already solved that before we even launched.

00:46:59.920 Because the moment someone's actually ready to pay, Shopify makes sure they can.

00:47:04.020 And if they've bought before, their details are already saved, so it's one tap and done.

00:47:07.900 that's time back to grow the business instead of running it. If you want to start the same way,

00:47:12.760 that's shopify.co.uk slash trigger. With Shopify, nothing stands between your idea and a real

00:47:19.180 business. So go make it one. Start your free trial at shopify.co.uk slash trigger. Start your free

00:47:25.360 trial at shopify.co.uk slash trigger. Well, it's interesting because I think part of the reason

00:47:33.720 it's so difficult to make the argument that you're making and be persuasive is actually the

00:47:38.940 intellectual architecture on which that argument is based has been ripped out of the western world

00:47:43.500 entirely and so for example the victory the painful victory in world war ii is seen by many people as

00:47:51.380 a set of war crimes you know the dropping of the nuclear bombs in japan which saved hundreds of

00:47:56.480 thousands of lives by the way people don't understand this and in fact would argue the 0.73

00:47:59.880 opposites, the greatest evil in human history. Well, all the historical evidence is the Japanese 1.00

00:48:04.820 would fight to the last man. They would starve their own people. And by the way, the Western 1.00

00:48:09.260 Allies estimates where it would take a million casualties to land on the mainland of Japan.

00:48:15.480 But that is seen as a war crime. The bombing of Germany, which was horrific. But again,

00:48:21.660 people have been taught not to ask the question, why was it that the Western Allies and the Soviet

00:48:27.680 Union had to bomb Germany into the ground. Why was it? It's because Hitler refused to surrender.

00:48:33.400 You know, the person we interviewed before you came in was Andrew Roberts. We were talking about 0.65

00:48:37.540 Napoleon. And I asked him, why didn't they chop Napoleon's head off after the Battle of Waterloo?

00:48:43.580 And he said, because he surrendered. Hitler didn't surrender. And neither Hamas. Hamas could have 0.78

00:48:48.900 ended this war on day one by handing over the hostages and the terrorists who took them. But

00:48:54.000 of course the terrorist who took them is hamas yeah so they can't hand them over because they'd 0.99

00:48:58.680 be handing themselves over but the moral and intellectual architecture of in order to destroy 0.84

00:49:05.580 your enemy you may have in the same way as you cut a cancer out you're going to have to carve out

00:49:10.200 some healthy tissue and if the cancer is putting the healthy tissue in front of itself then you

00:49:15.320 really probably will end up doing a lot of damage that's been entirely stripped of the western mind

00:49:19.740 and then you're left with this.

00:49:22.280 You're left with the phone in your face

00:49:23.560 showing your baby being pulled out of rumble.

00:49:25.540 I could not agree more.

00:49:27.760 I think it was John Stuart Mill who said,

00:49:30.060 there's something uglier than war,

00:49:32.860 which is the idea that nothing is worth fighting a war for. 0.73

00:49:36.240 I completely agree with that. 1.00

00:49:38.020 I'm generally an anti-war person. 0.62

00:49:39.700 I come from an anti-imperialist background.

00:49:43.340 I marched against wars for a very long time

00:49:45.560 and I would march against future wars, I have no doubt.

00:49:47.840 But an uglier thing than war is that deflated, post-moral, cowardly idea that nothing is worth a war.

00:49:59.360 Some things are worth a war.

00:50:02.160 Defeating the Nazis was worth a war. 0.78

00:50:04.940 Hundreds of thousands, millions of people died.

00:50:07.840 Britain's bombing of Germany, let's not re-litigate that because it's used by the new Hitler sympathisers to demonise Britain. 0.83

00:50:16.520 But Britain's bombing of Germany, which I think was just,

00:50:20.200 killed tens of thousands of civilians,

00:50:23.080 hundreds of thousands of civilians, including children.

00:50:26.420 Exactly, if they'd had the same technology as we do now,

00:50:29.960 you would have seen footage of children in the most barbarous...

00:50:32.800 Dresden.

00:50:33.440 Yeah, Dresden.

00:50:34.280 But it's not Dresden. They flattened 80 cities. 0.89

00:50:36.920 They were dropping, in conventional munitions, 0.93

00:50:39.940 two Hiroshima's a week on Germany.

00:50:43.580 And it sounds like a really horrible thing to say, 0.60

00:50:45.740 but it used to be well understood that that was worth it to defeat nazism and to defend western

00:50:51.340 civilization that's what's lost now and i think there's something so arrogant about western

00:50:57.820 activists often quite privileged but that's by the by who live in peaceful comfortable countries 0.88

00:51:04.300 like britain or france or germany um looking down their nose at the jewish state being forced 0.83

00:51:11.820 pretty much against its will, to fight this horrible, urban, humid war, 0.96

00:51:17.700 hand-to-hand combat with an army of Islamo-fascists. 1.00

00:51:22.220 Well, bully for you that you don't have to do that. 1.00

00:51:24.820 Bully for you that you don't have to defend your people and your nation 0.77

00:51:28.620 and your civilisation against a bunch of barbarians. 0.74

00:51:31.560 How lucky are you?

00:51:33.360 But instead of recognising their own privilege and recognising the desperation

00:51:37.200 of the Jewish nation in having to do this, they say, 1.00

00:51:40.020 oh you're scum you shouldn't do this you let yourself be invaded let yourself be killed it's 1.00

00:51:45.780 no big deal there's such an arrogance there i find it quite sickening but i think you're absolutely 1.00

00:51:50.660 right that we have no historical memory anymore suddenly the younger generations have no historical

00:51:55.700 memory that every now and then you have to pick up arms and fight a bloody war no one likes it

00:52:00.100 but it has to be done they also have no understanding and this is a broader problem which you guys have

00:52:06.900 I've been talking about for years, they have no understanding of the virtues and the values and

00:52:12.680 the wonder of Western civilization. And I think a lot of so-called Israelophobia, or some people

00:52:19.180 call it anti-Semitism, anti-Israel sentiment, I think, is a cancerous outgrowth of anti-Westernism.

00:52:27.120 Oh yeah, for sure, for sure. There are lots of people who just hate Israel because they think

00:52:31.900 it's America, or it's Britain, it's white, it's colonial, etc. 0.90

00:52:36.220 That's a huge part of it. 0.78

00:52:37.660 Israel has become the whipping boy of a Westernist elite that hates itself, 0.83

00:52:42.620 which has turned its back on its own values. 0.99

00:52:44.440 And Israel is seen to represent, actually quite rightly in a way,

00:52:48.100 it's seen to represent all the things that we used to represent.

00:52:51.900 It believes in sovereignty. It believes in borders.

00:52:55.580 It believes in standing up for itself.

00:52:57.540 It believes in training its young to be warriors 0.96

00:53:00.700 rather than pathetic victims who need a self-care day 0.87

00:53:03.320 because they were at a JK Rowling tweet. 0.88

00:53:05.840 And it believes that its older people should be safe,

00:53:08.500 should be looked after by its younger generation.

00:53:10.380 It has a sense of peoplehood, a sense of nationhood,

00:53:13.460 a sense of national integrity.

00:53:14.980 We've lost all of that. 1.00

00:53:16.740 And I often think that if we spent less time badgering Zionists 1.00

00:53:20.500 for being the worst people who ever existed, 0.96

00:53:22.600 we might actually recognise that Zionism has a lot to teach us.

00:53:26.140 Zionism has a lot to teach us in the sense of valuing national integrity, valuing the warrior

00:53:33.760 ethos, valuing the sense that a nation should be independent, should be free, its people should be

00:53:39.240 safe, it should ward off foreign combatants, foreign threats. All of those things, which really

00:53:44.660 is what Zionism is. Zionism is not fascism, as they say. It is just a nationalism that takes

00:53:50.900 itself seriously, if we spent less time demonising the Jewish state and more time learning from it,

00:53:56.300 we would recognise that Britain could do with some of that. We've got illegal immigrants crossing 1.00

00:54:01.800 our border every single day of the week. We've got people coming into our country who hate our

00:54:06.680 country. We've completely have this lost sense of nationhood, this lost sense of peoplehood. 0.96

00:54:13.320 Apparently the British people don't really exist. We're just kind of a mongrel race and all the 0.99

00:54:18.240 rest, let's not get into that right now. But there is this, there is this incredibly dilapidated

00:54:23.360 sense of Britishness, this kind of demoralized sense of nationhood, this idea that we're just

00:54:28.620 this hotel for anyone around the world. And that's causing us lots of problems. We could actually

00:54:34.520 learn from Israel if we could just stop demonizing it for five minutes. And I think that's an 0.99

00:54:39.140 important thing to do. Let's go back to Ireland for a second, because it seems to me that a lot

00:54:46.280 of people get their identity from others and so if there is no greater unifying force than being

00:54:54.740 against another group of people against another country which is what Ireland has had for a very

00:54:59.900 long time until very recently all of a sudden that doesn't really exist anymore and then you

00:55:07.240 can have the golden years halcyon period where it's peace and love but eventually if you don't

00:55:13.100 have that, you see fractures and what people then start looking for is another enemy. And if it's

00:55:20.380 not going to be each other, then it's going to be something else. And that something else must be

00:55:24.900 Israel. Yes. The Irish define themselves against Britain for a very long time, historically 0.52

00:55:31.860 speaking. Some of them still can't let go of that. I go to Dublin, I go to Cork, I go to Galway, 1.00

00:55:37.740 and I still hear Irish people slagging off the Brits. And I'm like, get over it, man. That was

00:55:42.500 a long, long time ago.

00:55:44.320 The irony, of course, is that they bow down 1.00

00:55:47.340 like obsequious idiots to the European Union, 1.00

00:55:51.000 which actively undercuts Irish sovereignty, 1.00

00:55:54.280 even more so than it did British sovereignty.

00:55:57.100 The European Union, for example, about 10, 15 years ago,

00:56:01.440 sent literal bankers to take over the Irish economy,

00:56:05.840 to run the Irish economy,

00:56:06.880 because it thought the Irish economy wasn't going very well.

00:56:09.040 a staggering intrusion into Irish sovereignty of the kind that we hadn't seen since it won

00:56:15.540 independence in 1923. So there's a great irony there that they still try to maintain that

00:56:22.060 anti-Britishness, even though they bow down to a new empire, as I see it, which is the Brussels

00:56:27.100 oligarchy. But yeah, you're right. When you feel that you're losing that, when you feel it doesn't

00:56:32.780 really have the cachet that it used to, because Britain left Ireland 100 years ago, and even in

00:56:38.560 Northern Ireland, which is a much more disputed territory. There haven't been British soldiers

00:56:42.460 there for a very long time and blah, blah, blah. So you lose that sense of identity where you

00:56:49.000 defined yourself against the other, against the foreign invader as they saw it. You look for

00:56:53.860 something else. You look for another figure, another demon against which you might define

00:56:59.780 yourself. And some Irish activist, the activist class, has landed upon Israel. That's really 0.56

00:57:06.980 I'm afraid to say, it does genuinely pain me to say this,

00:57:10.980 the Irish, or really the Irish chattering classes, I suppose, 1.00

00:57:14.980 have become the most sanctimonious people in Europe. 1.00

00:57:18.980 They are insufferable. They really are insufferable. 0.99

00:57:22.980 I say this, I go to Ireland all the time, three or four times a year at least,

00:57:26.980 and I encounter people like this, and they are insufferable. 0.95

00:57:30.980 They are so cock-sure that they are insufferable. 0.97

00:57:34.980 so cocksure about their moralism even though their facts are very thin on the ground 0.99

00:57:42.340 they are incredibly arrogant they think they're right about everything they spout facts about

00:57:47.300 1948 and the balfour declaration and which are just completely untrue um they have no they don't 0.53

00:57:55.060 factor in the holocaust whatsoever in terms of why jewish revolutionaries might have wanted to fight

00:57:59.940 for the reinstatement of the Kingdom of Israel.

00:58:04.020 They talk about the Nabka as a Holocaust-like event 0.55

00:58:06.960 when in fact it was just the fallout from a war

00:58:10.240 between the Jewish nation and the Arab states.

00:58:13.220 A terrible fallout, but that's what it was. 1.00

00:58:15.440 They are so ignorant. 1.00

00:58:17.340 They have this childlike understanding of history 1.00

00:58:20.480 because, and the reason they have that

00:58:22.480 is precisely because they are looking

00:58:25.900 not for a better way of understanding the world,

00:58:30.620 they're looking for a moral narrative

00:58:32.640 that they might wrap themselves in.

00:58:34.380 And I think that actually goes for,

00:58:36.500 not just for Ireland,

00:58:37.280 but for the entire so-called pro-Palestine movement.

00:58:40.580 This really has become a way for time-rich activists,

00:58:46.200 leftists, and even sections of the political establishment

00:58:48.760 to find a comfort blanket they might wrap around themselves,

00:58:52.300 a way in which they can define themselves as good

00:58:54.720 and everyone else is bad.

00:58:56.920 The problem, I mean, there are many problems with that. 1.00

00:58:58.920 It's childlike and immature and a bit dumb. 0.99

00:59:02.700 But the bigger problem is that the people in the West 0.99

00:59:05.780 who are most likely to identify with the Jewish state 0.53

00:59:08.660 and most likely to identify themselves as Zionists

00:59:11.300 are Jewish people.

00:59:13.080 Around 80% of Jews in the Western world identify as Zionists.

00:59:17.240 So if you identify yourself as an anti-Zionist, 0.96

00:59:20.700 as someone devoted to the removal of this one nation

00:59:24.840 from the family of nations,

00:59:26.740 whether you intend to or not, 0.95

00:59:30.160 you are going to come into conflict with Jewish people. 0.58

00:59:34.240 And that, I think, is the situation we find ourselves in now, 0.50

00:59:37.960 whether wittingly or unwittingly,

00:59:40.620 the Western left is in open conflict against Jews.

00:59:44.660 And that's a really scary thing.

00:59:46.960 Because one of the things that it also does

00:59:49.920 is you get obsessed with this particular issue,

00:59:54.500 but then Ireland has got some very real problems closer to home.

00:59:59.320 And let's talk about that because that is very important.

01:00:02.580 And you just look at Irish people and their politicians.

01:00:05.400 You're going, hang on, mate, why are you banging on about a conflict in the Middle East

01:00:10.580 when Ireland is going through really significant challenges

01:00:14.860 that nobody seems to be paying attention to?

01:00:17.160 Let me give you an example of exactly what you're talking about.

01:00:21.440 My parents are from the west of Ireland.

01:00:23.200 They come from this beautiful town called Clifton.

01:00:26.660 It's stunning.

01:00:27.620 I highly recommend it to your listeners to visit.

01:00:30.900 I go there all the time, and I was there a few months ago.

01:00:34.200 I cycled into town to buy a loaf of bread.

01:00:37.060 That's what you do when you're in the west of Ireland.

01:00:39.800 And everyone was whispering and chattering,

01:00:41.540 and I listened into the conversations and met up with a friend of mine.

01:00:44.980 It turned out that the night before, a woman had been murdered, virtually decapitated, and her body had been dumped in a local river.

01:00:56.180 And as soon as I heard that, people may say I'm racist for thinking this. 1.00

01:01:02.140 As soon as I heard that, I thought that will be one of the migrant hotels, and it was.

01:01:07.480 An Iranian man murdered and virtually decapitated a woman and threw her body in a river. 0.94

01:01:14.060 These kinds of things are happening more and more in Ireland.

01:01:19.200 There is a severe migrant crisis in Ireland.

01:01:23.320 There's a housing crisis.

01:01:25.340 There's an energy crisis.

01:01:27.660 There were protests this year by truckers and others

01:01:30.480 against the kind of net zero taxes that have been added to energy bills and so on.

01:01:36.300 There are so many interlocking crises in Ireland,

01:01:39.240 and yet all that the establishment talks about is Israel.

01:01:42.380 they go on and on about it to such an extent let's not forget that the Israeli embassy in

01:01:46.900 Dublin closed itself down last year because it was so horrified by the Irish elite's obsession

01:01:52.380 with the Israel question but you know the the interesting thing about Ireland in in relation

01:01:57.940 to all of those kinds of problems that your listeners will be very familiar with Ireland

01:02:02.800 has become almost like a laboratory for the kind of globalist experiment because it has this huge 1.00

01:02:09.440 influx of immigrants many of from parts of the world that don't speak english never mind speaking 1.00

01:02:14.320 irish um they're not integrating very well hotels in the middle of nowhere have overnight been taken

01:02:22.880 over by 400 500 men from africa or the middle east um i know these parts of ireland it's surreal

01:02:31.760 we're talking about parts of ireland where the population i mean forget piddington in england

01:02:36.160 we're talking about parts of ireland villages of 400 people there's one pub there's one shop

01:02:41.120 often these are irish speaking areas there are still some irish speaking areas and suddenly

01:02:46.160 overnight there are 400 men from africa this is happening across ireland and it's really really

01:02:52.080 annoying people and all the stuff that they say about britain they say well britain was an old 0.97

01:02:57.520 colonial nation it's the old nation of empire it was the nation of slavery therefore it deserves 1.00

01:03:02.480 this influx of immigrants what do you expect you go over there so we're coming over here 1.00

01:03:07.440 all that crap we hear about britain which by the way i don't accept you can't say anything 0.99

01:03:11.840 like that about ireland ireland never colonized anyone in fact ireland was colonized and yet the 0.95

01:03:17.520 same thing is being done to ireland and we now have this situation where some activist immigrants

01:03:24.960 in ireland are openly saying that ireland needs to change its culture change its ideas in order

01:03:31.520 to make them feel more welcome so there's an activist in ireland called ibn joseph she's

01:03:37.040 this kind of african-born woman she's very influential in dublin circles she went viral

01:03:43.520 recently because she said primary schools in ireland should stop making it a requirement that

01:03:50.000 teachers should be able to speak irish because that excludes african-born indian-born teachers

01:03:55.680 who don't speak irish but there's a very good reason that primary school teachers in ireland

01:03:59.840 uh have to speak irish which is that primary school teachers as you all know are general teachers

01:04:05.600 they teach kids everything a bit of science a bit of art a bit of writing and whatever and one of the

01:04:12.160 demands of in ireland is that you have to teach children to speak irish and so every primary

01:04:19.040 school teacher in ireland up to the age of nine or ten whatever it is you have to be able to speak

01:04:24.320 irish because you have to teach children to speak irish that's a perfectly legitimate thing for

01:04:29.280 for Ireland to decide to do.

01:04:31.100 You now have this pressure from external activists,

01:04:34.300 people born outside of Ireland saying,

01:04:35.960 well, that's not good enough, scrap that,

01:04:37.600 you don't need that, forget your culture, 0.97

01:04:39.660 forget your language. 0.97

01:04:41.940 Our right to have a job in your primary schools 0.99

01:04:44.760 overrides your right to defend your ancient culture. 1.00

01:04:48.660 That kind of thing is creeping into Ireland 0.96

01:04:51.360 in a way that I find incredibly creepy 0.99

01:04:53.400 and none of the bullshit justifications 0.99

01:04:56.240 for that stuff in Britain 0.98

01:04:58.120 stacks up in Ireland at all because Ireland is just a small former colony plucky little nation

01:05:04.360 and it doesn't deserve any of this so um when you talk about the problems in Ireland they 0.65

01:05:09.400 are huge they are they feel almost insurmountable and I think the Israel thing almost has become a

01:05:15.080 distraction from that because they're so incapable of addressing those problems they kind of wrap 0.87

01:05:20.360 themselves in this easy question of Israel-Palestine instead and where is this do you have a problem

01:05:25.800 with illegal immigration in Ireland or is this legal immigration that we're talking about?

01:05:30.300 It's a bit of both. I think the immigration thing is out of control. That's my view.

01:05:36.900 And I say this as somewhat, my parents are immigrants. We're all pretty much immigrants

01:05:42.300 here in one way or another or descended from them. I think immigration can be a great thing,

01:05:47.760 but in Britain and Ireland, it's out of control. And I mean both legal and illegal. 0.96

01:05:54.500 The thing is that what's happening in Ireland,

01:05:56.340 there's lots of illegal immigration,

01:05:57.540 there's lots of legal immigration,

01:05:59.200 but the broader question than even that

01:06:01.580 is this growing idea that the role of immigrants

01:06:05.780 is to change the nation to which they arrive.

01:06:10.520 You see that openly discussed in Ireland. 0.98

01:06:12.780 They will say the great thing,

01:06:14.180 the Irish media and the Irish establishment will say, 1.00

01:06:17.140 the great thing about the arrival of all these exotic foreigners 0.99

01:06:20.120 as they see them is that they will make us a bit less white 1.00

01:06:23.400 a bit less boring.

01:06:24.880 They will bring in some interesting food,

01:06:26.880 interesting culture.

01:06:28.040 They will change us.

01:06:29.760 And my view is that, I'm sorry, 1.00

01:06:32.760 it's not the role of immigrants to change a nation. 0.99

01:06:36.400 We've got to move on from that. 1.00

01:06:38.520 The role of immigrants is to keep your nose clean, 1.00

01:06:42.000 work for a living, be self-sustaining,

01:06:45.320 raise children who are good citizens 0.98

01:06:46.800 rather than little shits, 0.99

01:06:48.680 and try to integrate. 0.98

01:06:50.600 That's what my parents did

01:06:51.840 when they moved to London in 1970.

01:06:54.500 They worked their asses off.

01:06:55.980 They didn't integrate particularly well. 1.00

01:06:57.360 They just lived in an Irish community, 1.00

01:06:58.640 but they kept their noses clean.

01:07:00.380 They were good citizens,

01:07:01.200 and they raised six kids who have done pretty well.

01:07:04.840 That's the role of an immigrant.

01:07:06.360 Your role is not to go to another country

01:07:08.600 and radically transform it.

01:07:11.900 The arrogance of that I find quite extraordinary.

01:07:15.140 The idea that I would go to France or Russia or China

01:07:19.520 and try to change it is extraordinary to me.

01:07:23.560 But that's increasingly the discussion in Ireland

01:07:25.660 as well as in Britain.

01:07:27.140 This notion that the wonderful thing

01:07:29.680 about the arrival of all these people from overseas,

01:07:32.100 whether it's legal or illegal, 0.91

01:07:33.900 is that it will shape Ireland out of its whiteness,

01:07:36.900 out of its old-fashionedness, 0.59

01:07:39.120 out of its attachment to the Irish language,

01:07:41.120 its attachment to its ancient culture.

01:07:43.380 No, Ireland doesn't want to do that.

01:07:46.920 The Irish people don't want to do that.

01:07:48.900 And you create this real culture of animosity if you send immigrants almost like an army to try and chip away at the culture of Irishness.

01:07:59.860 And we're seeing that in Britain now.

01:08:01.500 We're seeing this incredible culture of animus growing between native Britons and migrants.

01:08:08.260 And I think it's incredibly regrettable that that's happening.

01:08:11.320 But it's a consequence of the establishment essentially sending immigrants as foot soldiers for radical transformation.

01:08:17.380 and saying, we love you immigrants because you will stop us being so white and boring

01:08:21.440 and middle of the road and no spice on our food, blah, blah, blah. 1.00

01:08:25.400 When you use immigrants to do that, you are setting them up for a fall 1.00

01:08:30.300 because the native inhabitants of that country will say, well, actually, we don't want this. 1.00

01:08:35.380 And what's interesting is even the sort of middle class, chattering class people

01:08:40.480 who say that they're in favour of this turn out to be really not in favour of it

01:08:45.840 if it's happening around the corner from them magically.

01:08:49.540 And that's the fascinating thing to me as well

01:08:51.820 because there's so much of this luxury belief thing going on

01:08:55.400 that as long as your ideas don't have the impact

01:08:59.080 that they have on other people and you,

01:09:01.040 then everything is fine.

01:09:01.860 But the moment they put them in a camp around yours,

01:09:04.380 suddenly you stop voting for the Greens

01:09:05.880 and for the Lib Dems all of a sudden.

01:09:07.340 And suddenly you have a referenda to leave the country

01:09:10.320 and so on and so forth.

01:09:12.340 And it's fascinating to witness, really.

01:09:15.040 and i kind of understand it you know um i happen to live in a very leafy uh fairly still very

01:09:22.360 english part of the country and i look around at the people at my neighbors and i'm not speaking

01:09:27.160 for them specifically i don't know their opinions maybe they're all massively anti-immigration i

01:09:30.880 don't know but i sort of think you live in this lovely neighborhood you're surrounded by other

01:09:36.460 people like you and then you know an italian family moves in next door and they're lovely

01:09:41.860 and their kids are beautiful and they speak this beautifully you know why would these racists on tv

01:09:47.060 you know care so much about immigration when alessandra and you know whatever they're so

01:09:53.140 wonderful because they literally don't know they've never been to bradford they have never been to

01:09:59.060 birmingham they don't see what happens to big cities in this country now where it's just a

01:10:05.540 different city to what it was you know i remember coming into this country in 1995 i mean the

01:10:10.420 transformation is pretty incredible and and and people call you names for pointing it out but

01:10:16.900 i've got eyes i'm sorry let's be honest about modern life for a second processed food stress

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01:11:53.140 You've just hit on exactly what I've been thinking over recent months and, in fact, the past couple of years.

01:11:59.060 I think people's attitudes to this question are determined to a very large extent by where they live.

01:12:05.060 Yeah. It really is. And this is why you have media people, often very influential, quite wealthy media people who live in beautiful parts of London or beautiful parts of the country who say, what's your problem?

01:12:17.600 I'm in the fortunate position, I guess, where I divide myself at the moment. I'm dividing myself between two parts of London, a part in northwest London, near to where I grew up, which is very working class and has gone to shit. 1.00

01:12:29.780 and then East Dulwich, where I know someone and I go there quite regularly. 1.00

01:12:35.660 East Dulwich is beautiful beyond belief.

01:12:38.360 It's like an English village, but it's London.

01:12:42.160 It's very English. There's bookshops.

01:12:44.720 You hear English everywhere you go. 0.99

01:12:46.900 It feels familiar. It feels comforting.

01:12:49.560 Apparently it's racist to say that, but everyone will know what I mean. 0.99

01:12:52.300 the other place I'm thinking about is almost 100% non-white some people say that's fine whatever 0.92

01:13:03.020 you can walk through that part of the of the city and not hear a word of English I've had that 0.99

01:13:09.840 experience many many times where you have a whole day in town you go from one cafe to another I'm

01:13:16.220 usually writing an article here and then doing this over there you don't hear a word of English

01:13:20.320 now we're supposed to think that's wonderful and the great tapestry of diversity but I find it

01:13:26.800 crushingly alienating to not be able to understand what my fellow inhabitants are saying I find it

01:13:34.500 so heartbreaking and dispiriting um so even in London you talk about Bradford and other parts

01:13:41.980 of the country where things are radically different but even in London you can go from

01:13:45.280 one suburb to another and the difference is extraordinary and the um the expulsion of so

01:13:51.820 where I grew up um it was 90 percent English and then there was a smattering of Irish people which

01:13:58.140 was me and my family and a few others um they've all gone they've all gone I'm not exaggerating

01:14:05.720 when I say all they've all gone I'd love to know where they've gone but they've all gone and now

01:14:10.520 it is somalian it's romanian it's and you know i know what the middle class commentary will say

01:14:17.060 they'll say that's diversity it's wonderful is it well this is do we have to say that well this

01:14:23.040 is the thing is not to get into the whole rishi sunank english thing but he wrote an article in

01:14:28.060 which he referenced comments that i made and i wrote response blah blah blah but the interesting

01:14:31.780 thing he said is his entire premise is he says we are the most successful multi-ethnic multi-faith

01:14:38.280 democracy in the world and I suspect that if you're Rishi Sunak that is undoubtedly true

01:14:45.380 and by the way it's probably even true if you're Constantine Kissin living in a nice leafy part of

01:14:50.720 the country but if you live in some of the parts of London that you are describing I don't think

01:14:57.940 you feel that way and I think the reason we're having these all these debates is a lot of people

01:15:01.820 don't feel that this whole thing is entirely successful let's be honest yeah can we just

01:15:06.560 technology elephant in the room which is it's a class thing yeah it's a class thing it's it's no

01:15:12.040 favorite subject he's got all right i leave you to a youtube working class lads you bring me back

01:15:17.460 to my living marxism days but it is a class thing and this is something you were saying earlier

01:15:23.200 constantine which is that it's suddenly become an issue you're allowed to talk about like the

01:15:27.600 people of pittington god bless them good luck to them they want to secede from britain i'm all for

01:15:32.640 that and I think it's outrageous that 1,300 blokes were going to be imported there but 0.98

01:15:39.680 working-class communities have been saying that for 10 years yeah and they were called fascist scum 0.55

01:15:44.800 in fact in the in Epping which is kind of working class done good all these progressive activists 0.86

01:15:49.520 turned up and literally called the women they're Nazis so I'm glad finally we can talk about it

01:15:54.800 I'm slightly annoyed that we can only talk about it because the middle classes have decided it's

01:15:58.320 actually a problem that's slightly that there is a class issue in relation to that um but you're

01:16:04.560 right it's you know depending on where you live depends on how you see this issue and um you know

01:16:10.640 i was i francis and i talked about this recently we met each other at an event and it's i i try so

01:16:18.000 hard not to despair about the state of britain i hate i don't want to be a doomerist i've never

01:16:23.920 been a london doomerist i love london i think london will survive london has survived plagues

01:16:28.800 and fires and the luftwaffe and all sorts of things i think it will survive what's currently

01:16:33.280 happening but it's it's bad just to give you a taste of how bad it is for me i've never phoned

01:16:40.560 the police in my life i have phoned the police twice over the past two months one because i saw

01:16:47.760 a ranting foreign bloke with no shirt on stealing a fork from a restaurant and jabbing it in the

01:16:53.600 the face of some young women at a bus stop. So I had to phone the police and they came and they

01:16:58.040 took them away. And I phoned the police recently because I saw in a Jewish area of northwest

01:17:04.400 London, I saw a gang of young Muslim guys in the middle of the road about 1am. I was coming home 1.00

01:17:09.900 slightly worse for wear and they were shouting al-Akbar and cars were stopping in front of them 0.99

01:17:14.700 and saying, screw you, I guess they were Jewish drivers or whatever. So I phoned the police and 0.98

01:17:18.800 there's a bunch of men making a nuisance of themselves those are the only two times in my

01:17:24.000 life i phoned the police and both of them were over the past few weeks um also over the past few

01:17:29.200 weeks um i was walking through warren street there's now an encampment in warren street some

01:17:34.480 of your listeners may have seen it i've seen it uh i guess illegal immigrants um one of the i was 0.52

01:17:40.240 walking past it and one of the men in that encampment showed me his anus literally there are 0.59

01:17:46.320 some upsides yeah so all good um i've i've um on many occasions i've seen people walk into a costa 0.58

01:17:56.240 coffee and take food right walk out i've seen it you see videos on the internet but i've seen it

01:18:00.720 with my own eyes on numerous occasions um and then of course i go back to my hometown i go and visit

01:18:05.920 old friends old relatives and i don't hear a word of english uh the convent i was educated at is now

01:18:11.280 block a flat and most of them are inhabited by people who weren't born here it's relentless

01:18:17.360 it's relentless and the thing is that it's so frustrating because i'm not arguing that britain 0.52

01:18:26.000 should be a white nation i'm not i mean i agree with you on the englishness question by the way

01:18:32.080 but we probably haven't got time to get on that yeah i don't think of myself as english no my dna

01:18:37.040 is not even remotely English.

01:18:39.960 It's 97% Irish, and there's a tiny smacking word.

01:18:42.580 I know where you're going with this, I think, though,

01:18:44.340 which is that whatever your views on that question,

01:18:47.220 the reason we're having all these conversations

01:18:49.000 is the mass immigration is so transformative

01:18:51.920 that I actually resent having these debates

01:18:56.080 because the one thing I agree with Rishi Sunak on is

01:18:58.840 I wish we could go back.

01:19:00.960 I wish we could go back to a time

01:19:02.920 when no one thought about their identity and their ethnicity 1.00

01:19:05.960 and any of this bollocks. 1.00

01:19:07.940 But I'm sorry, you did mass immigration

01:19:10.020 and then you did identity politics.

01:19:12.080 And you put those two things together

01:19:13.700 and we are where we are

01:19:15.180 and now everyone is racialized.

01:19:16.880 And now white people are going,

01:19:18.660 hold on a second,

01:19:19.400 we're playing this racial identity game.

01:19:21.200 Well, what about me?

01:19:22.840 It's supposed to be my country.

01:19:25.500 I'm sorry to be frank, 0.91

01:19:27.460 but they fucked things up

01:19:28.460 because I find myself 0.64

01:19:30.240 getting increasingly nostalgic

01:19:31.760 for the 1990s.

01:19:33.080 I know everyone's nostalgic

01:19:34.160 for the era in which they were.

01:19:35.540 teenagers and whatever but in the 1990s if you look back to it that was the kind of the golden

01:19:41.300 era of racial peace because you'd gone through the 70s and the 80s in the American the American 0.64

01:19:46.180 situation it was the 60s but you'd gone through all those struggles where black people said look

01:19:49.960 please treat us equally we're not subhuman we're normal like you wonderful great victory anti-racism

01:19:56.040 gets instituted bit by bit then you get the 90s and it's pretty relaxed and I remember it vividly

01:20:03.580 You know, immigration numbers to Britain were small.

01:20:06.500 There were a large number of Caribbean immigrants

01:20:09.720 and Windrush descendants and loads of Irish immigrants,

01:20:14.000 Greeks, Italians, loads of Indians

01:20:16.440 who were incredibly well-integrated, 1.00

01:20:18.800 Pakistani Muslims less well-integrated,

01:20:21.100 but you were kind of getting there to a certain extent.

01:20:24.320 The 90s was a relatively peaceful era in that sense 0.98

01:20:27.920 and has gone to shit, completely really has, 0.98

01:20:32.620 Because now you fast forward 30 years and racial tensions are everywhere. 1.00

01:20:37.840 The immigration numbers are out of control.

01:20:41.360 You have all these little ethnic bubbles. 0.74

01:20:44.120 And it's apparently racist to say, I wish everyone spoke English. 1.00

01:20:47.360 I wish these women would take off those burqas. 1.00

01:20:49.680 I wish people would stop praying in the streets like it was Saudi Arabia. 1.00

01:20:52.740 Although, in fact, they're not allowed to do it in Saudi Arabia.

01:20:55.920 The problem is, I consider myself an anti-racist.

01:20:58.940 I know that's an old-fashioned term.

01:21:00.120 The problem is that the establishment, anti-racism used to mean that you approached individuals as individuals.

01:21:08.840 You treated them as people rather than as representatives of their race. 0.79

01:21:13.160 Now, suddenly, anti-racism means you have to accept infinity Eritreans. 0.99

01:21:18.260 You have to turn a blind eye to Muslims, raping working class girls because you might cause local disturbances. 1.00

01:21:24.840 You have to say white people are lame and boring and they're not very interesting. 1.00

01:21:30.120 anti-racism has come to encapsulate all these other weird ideologies which we never bought into 0.99

01:21:36.920 and i just think we are witnessing a really serious fraying of the social contract because

01:21:44.220 it was never part of the social contract in britain that british people would go to work

01:21:49.180 every day from nine to five in order to sustain people who were born overseas it was never part

01:21:54.660 of the social contract that you would work your butt off in order to pay for the housing or the

01:21:59.520 healthcare or the education of people who came here five minutes ago. So the destruction of that

01:22:06.800 social contract is the thing that annoys me. I fully agree that Britain can be a pretty diverse

01:22:11.480 place. I completely agree that you can have a black Britain. I know many of them. All of that,

01:22:19.000 right? Well, that isn't just for clarity in case people... Yeah, but it's... The point I'm making

01:22:25.800 is I think now you've created this very multi-ethnic society. We have to find a thing that

01:22:30.500 we can all unite around. And if you don't think you're English, then clearly that identity

01:22:35.960 does not work for us to all unite around. And that's why it's got to be British. That's 0.84

01:22:41.360 why black Britain, black, by the way, Rich Sunak described himself as a black, not a 0.92

01:22:45.960 black Asian, that would be a bit weird, a British Asian. So all I'm saying is the British 0.95

01:22:51.220 identity is the only way to save this country, in my opinion. I completely agree. You know,

01:22:56.900 I grew up in a household in London where we weren't allowed to have the British flag. My

01:23:02.000 father was quite very, very Irish. So Britpop was a nightmare for us because we all had T-shirts

01:23:08.020 with a flag on it and he'd say, get that out of this house. So I grew up with this kind of

01:23:12.560 instinctive anti-Britishness. And lots of Irish people born in Britain had the same thing where

01:23:17.180 they lived here, they liked the country, they loved the people, they hung out with everyone.

01:23:20.700 but they had a residual anti-Britishness.

01:23:23.340 For me, that's completely gone.

01:23:25.960 Brexit was a massive turning point for me.

01:23:28.300 Brexit was the moment in which I thought to myself,

01:23:30.180 hold on, I've got infinitely more in common

01:23:33.120 with English working class people 1.00

01:23:34.880 than I do with these twats in Dublin 0.98

01:23:37.060 who are trying to overthrow Brexit

01:23:38.560 or try and stall Brexit,

01:23:39.920 which is what the Dublin government was doing.

01:23:41.940 That was, for me, was the moment

01:23:43.200 in which I thought to myself,

01:23:44.300 right, I'm a British person.

01:23:46.560 I'm proud to be a British person.

01:23:48.580 This is what it means to me.

01:23:49.760 It means defending sovereignty.

01:23:51.580 It means the history of fighting for liberty.

01:23:54.360 It means the levelers and the chartists and George Orwell and John Stuart Mill

01:23:58.640 and all those kind of wondrous figures of history who, in my view,

01:24:02.700 define Britishness as a culture that loves freedom, loves equality,

01:24:08.180 and aspires to peace.

01:24:10.780 That's how I understand Britishness now.

01:24:12.960 That's what we need to coalesce around.

01:24:15.500 But instead, what we've got, and you guys will be well aware of this,

01:24:18.820 is this intentional fragmentation of the nation

01:24:22.420 through the ideology of multiculturalism.

01:24:25.240 And the problem with the ideology of multiculturalism

01:24:27.400 is not only that it says, 0.85

01:24:28.600 Pakistanis live here and black people live here 1.00

01:24:31.580 and you live here, that's bad enough, 0.98

01:24:34.000 but it also incites hostility towards British culture.

01:24:39.320 Because what it says to various fragmented communities,

01:24:42.160 it says, Britain is a racist country.

01:24:45.480 It was born from the sins of empire.

01:24:47.700 It's a history that stews in the history of slavery. 0.91

01:24:51.680 It's a country that is Islamophobic. 0.64

01:24:54.640 So be wary of Britain.

01:24:56.480 It actively discourages integration.

01:25:00.080 And I can tell you from my own history, and other people will have a similar history,

01:25:03.940 integration's hard enough, even when it is the value of the nation. 1.00

01:25:08.780 Because, and often first-generation immigrants just don't integrate. 1.00

01:25:13.340 You see Greek old blokes sitting around in parts of London 1.00

01:25:16.660 talking to each other in Greek.

01:25:18.720 Fine, no one has a problem with that.

01:25:20.040 My father's Irish accent is as thick as it is now

01:25:23.040 as it was when he arrived more than 50 years ago

01:25:25.520 because he only talks to Irish people.

01:25:27.620 No one really has a problem with that.

01:25:29.380 Integration generally happens generationally.

01:25:33.280 So my generation of Irish people, the second generation,

01:25:36.100 we're really well integrated.

01:25:37.600 The third generation are brilliantly integrated.

01:25:40.040 They've all got high-flying jobs and whatever.

01:25:41.640 same is true of the indian community fantastically integrated generationally it gets better and

01:25:46.980 better but then there are some communities where generationally it's not happening so you will meet

01:25:52.560 third or fourth generation muslims who technically speaking are more british than me who wear this 1.00

01:26:00.620 these ridiculous niqabs these bin bags from desert states cover their faces and they've got cockney 1.00

01:26:06.940 accents but they embrace this kind of hostile culture this culture which is basically a 1.00

01:26:12.940 fuck you to britain because when you walk around the streets with your face covered you are making 0.99

01:26:18.620 a statement against the nation you are in my view insulting the people of britain by saying i'm not 1.00

01:26:25.020 going to show you my face i'm not going to be part of your community i'm not going to be part of your

01:26:29.500 everyday life um so people are incited to embrace ways of life that are actively hostile to the

01:26:36.460 mainstream of Britain. That's the real sin of multiculturalism. It's not only that it is

01:26:41.060 separatist and balkanising, but it actively encourages hatred for Britain. And I think

01:26:48.160 we're living with the consequences of that now. I think everything you said is relevant. I also

01:26:54.360 think there's a slight danger of over-intellectualisation. And I'll say what,

01:26:58.580 and I'll go back to class, what a surprise. But you're saying they hate Britain. I don't think

01:27:05.380 they really do I think they hate working class people we saw with Emily Thornberry on question

01:27:10.800 time you know that was a sneering contempt yeah and I think the middle class now the the the left

01:27:18.120 now it's so middle class and they've always hated working class people whilst preparing to represent

01:27:24.560 them but now the mask has really slipped and you look at things like the grooming gangs would they

01:27:29.700 have cared if that had happened in Barnes or if that happened in a nice part of women absolutely 0.56

01:27:33.760 they would have done and it would have been sorted but because it happened in white working class

01:27:37.940 communities like Bradford they didn't care they didn't care that cities completely change 0.88

01:27:43.240 demographically because it was white working class they're never going to go there and frankly let's 0.97

01:27:48.000 be honest they fucking hate them yeah that's actually true and then when you meet a lot of 0.98

01:27:53.120 these MPs and you talk to them you go you may even represent some of these communities how much time 0.98

01:27:58.800 do you actually spend there and how much empathy well let's use the word that the left like using

01:28:04.160 and it's not just left it's right as well how much genuine empathy and understanding do you

01:28:09.700 have for these communities you don't you don't I mean some would do some may do but there's a lot

01:28:15.520 of times I go this is a fundamental disconnect and you hang around and you go to the bars or

01:28:21.160 the restaurants or you go to a meeting here or a dinner there it has nothing to do with the lives

01:28:26.760 of ordinary people who have had their entire worlds and cultures,

01:28:32.140 and let's be honest about it, destroyed and exploded?

01:28:35.600 Well, Citizen Foster, I completely agree with you 100%. 0.97

01:28:39.860 I've often thought that the culture war is really a class war in drag 1.00

01:28:43.780 because what it is is influential sections of society telling the plebs 1.00

01:28:50.540 how they should think, how they should live, how they should shut 0.74

01:28:53.580 their bloody mouths about immigration and all rape gangs or everything else what you say about 0.96

01:28:58.540 the rape gangs is so true because um i'm not going to name this person but there was a very middle 0.97

01:29:03.820 class journalist quite a posh journalist who um you may remember that she alleged that a tory mp

01:29:11.380 had put his hand on her knee um and asked her out for a drink and it became this huge scandal it was

01:29:16.860 on news night it was on in the guardian it was all over the place all over um twitter that was

01:29:22.180 at the exact same time that the rape gang stuff was happening and starting to come out,

01:29:26.940 you had a situation where the bourgeois media, to use an old-fashioned term,

01:29:30.600 spent more time talking about this one posh woman who had allegedly been touched by a Tory MP 0.92

01:29:36.260 than they did about the hundreds of thousands of working-class girls who had been raped by Muslim 0.98

01:29:41.560 gangs. So this is what we're talking about. And I think you're absolutely right that there is a 0.96

01:29:47.240 a very clear class element to this.

01:29:50.360 And you see it in the venom that is spat at working-class communities

01:29:55.260 who reject wokeness in its entirety.

01:29:59.060 So they're suspicious of the European Union.

01:30:02.040 We know that the more working-class a community is,

01:30:04.340 the more likely it was to have voted leave.

01:30:07.080 These working-class communities are often very angry about things like rape gangs.

01:30:10.800 They're angry about illegal immigration. 0.99

01:30:13.040 They're angry about our suicidal destruction of our own sovereignty.

01:30:17.240 and they're looked upon as fascists they're literally called fascists um you we have a

01:30:24.880 situation now in this country where the ruling class is i think quite suicidally destroying

01:30:31.560 everything that makes britain great which includes sovereignty the ideals of liberty the ideals of

01:30:37.220 democracy the ideals of fair play the ideals of equality before the law that's been sacrificed at

01:30:43.040 the altar of racialism. The establishment is burning everything that made this country great

01:30:50.200 and it is largely speaking working-class communities and sensible voices like you guys

01:30:55.260 who are trying to hold on to it as much as possible. That's why I think the protests in

01:30:59.820 places like Gosport and Portsmouth and other parts of the country where we now have working-class 0.85

01:31:06.080 communities actively trying to push back boats. They are so important. Now people can agree or

01:31:13.440 disagree with these protests. They can say they're a good thing or a bad thing. All of us can

01:31:17.800 acknowledge that some of them are far right and some of them are just little old ladies who went 1.00

01:31:21.980 down to the sea and said fuck off back to France. There's a mix of people but it's undeniable in my 0.99

01:31:29.020 view that we now have a situation where the state is devoting its resources to bringing people into 0.99

01:31:35.800 the country, whether it wants to or not, that's what it's doing. And ordinary people who have 1.00

01:31:41.160 very few resources and no power whatsoever are trying to stop that from happening. This is an

01:31:46.700 unprecedented situation in the history of this country, where the state has so savagely neglected

01:31:52.960 its first duty, which is to protect the territory and the people of the kingdom, that ordinary

01:31:57.820 people are having to step up and do it in its stead. And when you see people wading, literally

01:32:03.260 wading into the sea in the south of england and saying to these people on boats go away

01:32:09.760 um i think people haven't clocked how extraordinary that is and how it speaks to

01:32:16.020 the unbelievable failures of the state you know britain used to rule the waves now we can't even

01:32:22.720 stop a dinghy from coming from france and it's and i think the tensions and the conflict in this

01:32:28.640 country i'm not one of those people who think we're on the cusp of civil war but the tensions

01:32:32.560 and this conflict in this country are spinning out of control and we now have a kind of post-state

01:32:39.120 vigilantism devoted to the protection of british sovereignty where that goes next is anyone's guess

01:32:46.180 brendan always uh good to have you back on the show uh before we go to questions from our

01:32:51.520 supporters what's the one thing we're not talking about that we should be oh wow god i always forget

01:32:57.300 that you guys are you've been on the show so many times you really should remember this um what's the

01:33:01.820 one thing I a few weeks ago I might have said AI but now everyone's talking about it still not

01:33:07.940 enough in my opinion not enough I need to get my head around AI I don't quite understand it

01:33:12.420 I use it but um I don't quite understand whether it's as scary as people say what are people not

01:33:18.140 talking about the trans issue has slightly faded from the headlines and the reason I'm saying that

01:33:23.320 is only because Sandy Peggy who is a heroine of modern Britain um she's the nurse who um

01:33:31.760 was forced by the NHS to undress in front of a man.

01:33:37.100 Her case is ongoing.

01:33:38.700 And I saw a tiny little subheading

01:33:41.240 in the middle of a newspaper the other day

01:33:42.980 talking about the fact that her case is ongoing.

01:33:45.500 And I thought to myself,

01:33:46.600 we've slightly lost sight of this question

01:33:48.580 because we've got so many other things to talk about,

01:33:50.620 like the fact that 800 men from God knows where

01:33:53.780 turn up on our shores every day and net zero, blah, blah, blah.

01:33:57.580 That we've lost sight of the fact 1.00

01:33:58.860 that there are still working class women, in fact, 1.00

01:34:02.160 fighting for the right to not have to see some bloke's shriveled knob i mean that's a brutal way

01:34:09.920 to put it but it's true and i know that was a big issue for a long time and uh turf island as britain

01:34:16.320 is often referred to was pretty successful as kind of putting it to bed but it's still there

01:34:20.800 and i don't think we should lose sight of that because it does weave into all the things we've 0.99

01:34:24.640 been talking about which is this idea that working-class communities should suck it up

01:34:28.800 and accept all these people from overseas and women should suck it up and accept blokes in

01:34:34.000 their changing rooms there is this constant i think it all speaks to the erosion of borders

01:34:39.840 borders have become so unfashionable national borders the borders between men and women the

01:34:45.520 borders between adult and children so you have adults behaving like children and children being

01:34:49.840 expected to take on the responsibilities of adulthood this kind of collapsing of borders

01:34:54.640 in so many facets of life

01:34:56.300 is something I think we need to broaden out

01:34:59.040 and talk a bit more about 0.98

01:35:00.320 and defend the right of nurses 1.00

01:35:01.780 not to have to see a knob when they go to work.

01:35:04.240 Fundamental right.

01:35:05.240 So we can't forget about that.

01:35:06.480 Yeah, it's interesting.

01:35:07.200 I think the borders thing,

01:35:08.360 I've thought for a long time,

01:35:10.120 the problem,

01:35:11.180 see, it actually speaks to the whole

01:35:13.480 Rishi Sunak debate thing as well

01:35:14.900 because when you say the word

01:35:18.480 this ethnicity means this,

01:35:20.140 you are excluding people. 0.71

01:35:22.240 And borders exclude people.

01:35:24.640 And we are an inclusive society, and therefore you are never allowed to say, actually, you can't come in here.

01:35:31.860 Whether that's a person coming into a woman's changing room, whether that's a person coming into your country,

01:35:37.520 whether that's a person claiming to be an ethnicity that actually you personally happen to think only includes people of a certain ancestry.

01:35:45.940 That's all terrible because it's excluding people because inclusion is the great value of our society.

01:35:51.380 We'll talk about that next time.

01:35:52.440 Head on over to triggerpod.co.uk

01:35:55.260 where Brendan's going to answer your questions.

01:35:58.660 Will Sinn Féin ever form a majority government

01:36:01.500 in the Irish Republic

01:36:02.440 and when will a border poll for reunification take place?

01:36:06.240 But they've screwed it up

01:36:07.340 and they've particularly screwed it up by becoming woke.

01:36:10.380 Sinn Féin are woke?

01:36:11.320 Yeah, Sinn Féin are woke.

01:36:12.700 What?

01:36:22.440 We'll be right back.

TRIGGERnometry - October 14, 2026

“Ireland is the Ultimate Victim Nation” – Brendan O’Neill

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