TRIGGERnometry - Israel Wants to Make This the Last War

00:00:01.000 This is an eight-front war by Iran against Israel, waged through its proxies.

00:00:06.000 It is a regional war.

00:00:09.000 They want the Iranian regime so that it cannot build its nuclear bomb,

00:00:14.000 with which it intends finally to finish off the job.

00:00:18.000 The vast and overwhelming majority of the population are united

00:00:23.000 in the determination that this will be the last war.

00:00:28.000 Is that even possible, Melanie?

00:00:31.000 I have to say, and a lot of us in the Jewish community think this,

00:00:34.000 now we understand why the Holocaust happened.

00:00:39.000 Melanie Phillips, welcome back to Trigonometry.

00:00:41.000 We obviously want to talk to you about Israel and the war in Gaza and all of that.

00:00:46.000 But, you know, it just struck me something because you spent a lot of time living in Israel

00:00:49.000 and we were just chatting before we started.

00:00:52.000 And you were like, yeah, I'm going back tomorrow, missiles permitted.

00:00:56.000 And then you told us that, you know, commercial airliners have missile shields

00:01:00.000 and all the pilots are ex-fighter jet or ex-bomber pilots.

00:01:04.000 And it just made me realize that I think, first and foremost,

00:01:08.000 it would be really valuable for people to hear what it's like living in Israel.

00:01:12.000 Because all of us, we just watch the news and we go, oh, Israel is doing this and Palestine is that.

00:01:17.000 And we don't actually imagine what people are living through

00:01:21.000 and therefore perhaps why they're making some of the decisions they're making.

00:01:24.000 Well, first of all, it's very good to see you both again.

00:01:26.000 And thank you for having me back.

00:01:28.000 It's El Al that has the missile shields and the bomber pilots as pilots.

00:01:33.000 I'm not aware that British Airways goes in for this kind of thing.

00:01:37.000 What's it like living in Israel as I do mainly, although I'm in Britain a great deal?

00:01:42.000 Well, since October the 7th, that terrible day when I was indeed in Jerusalem

00:01:47.000 and at 8.10 thereabouts, the first siren went off and we had no idea what was happening.

00:01:53.000 We had no idea it was unfolding.

00:01:55.000 The horror was unfolding in the South.

00:01:57.000 But since then, Israel has been at war.

00:02:01.000 And what I can tell you is that it's the most extraordinary place to live in

00:02:06.000 and has been for the past 11 months in a way that nobody here can really understand.

00:02:12.000 First of all, you have to understand that Israel is a very small country.

00:02:18.000 It's only 9 million people.

00:02:20.000 And consequently, it's like a big village.

00:02:22.000 Everybody knows everybody else.

00:02:24.000 And I would say there's hardly a family, hardly a household

00:02:28.000 which hasn't been touched in some way by all this.

00:02:30.000 Either they had relatives or friends or acquaintances

00:02:33.000 who were taken hostage into Gaza.

00:02:36.000 They were at the famous party, the rave, where hundreds of young people were mown down.

00:02:42.000 Or they have relatives who were killed in that whole episode,

00:02:46.000 that atrocity that actually happened on October the 7th.

00:02:50.000 Or they have young relatives, young children, grandchildren, nieces, nephews, boys and girls,

00:03:00.000 who were on the front.

00:03:02.000 And some families hadn't heard from their relatives who were on the front for months.

00:03:08.000 They just disappeared into Gaza.

00:03:09.000 They had no idea what happened to them, where they were.

00:03:12.000 And some of these young people are dying.

00:03:17.000 They're dying constantly.

00:03:19.000 And so people in Israel are going to funeral after funeral,

00:03:24.000 visiting one shattered family after another.

00:03:27.000 And consequently, there is a sense of shock and trauma which happened on October 7,

00:03:37.000 because of the enormity of what happened on that day.

00:03:40.000 But in the 11 months that have followed, that shock and trauma have kind of deepened.

00:03:46.000 They haven't alleviated, because every day it kind of gets worse,

00:03:50.000 because the casualty toll gets worse.

00:03:53.000 And people are very resilient in Israel, but they're looking at what is actually,

00:04:00.000 and people in Britain and the rest of the West probably don't really understand this.

00:04:04.000 They're thinking, oh, Israel is doing this in Gaza, or now Israel is doing this in Lebanon.

00:04:11.000 What they haven't really, I think, factored in is that from the very start,

00:04:16.000 from October the 8th, it has been then a seven and now eight front war directed by Iran.

00:04:25.000 This is an eight front war by Iran against Israel, waged through its proxies.

00:04:30.000 It is a regional war. And the sense of being besieged, and the sense in Israel of,

00:04:39.000 how is this thing going to end? And are people in charge actually going to end it?

00:04:47.000 And is America, upon which we in Israel have depended all these years,

00:04:52.000 is America actually for us, or is it actually an enemy that we are having to fight simultaneously?

00:04:59.000 So this is very, very luring. It has taken a terrible toll.

00:05:05.000 People's mental health has suffered. And basically, the Jewish world will never be the same again.

00:05:13.000 Having said that, the spirit in Israel is astounding. The sense of collective spirit.

00:05:22.000 Now, you will have read, and it is true, that there are great divisions in Israel.

00:05:26.000 You will have seen very large demonstrations on the streets, mainly of Tel Aviv,

00:05:31.000 demanding that the hostiles be brought home, demanding that Netanyahu, Prime Minister Netanyahu departs.

00:05:38.000 And through the prism of the Western media, it would appear that Israel is a divided society.

00:05:47.000 This is not true. There is a significant division, and has been for a long, long time.

00:05:53.000 But I would say it is a very noisy and very articulate and very powerful, but very small minority of the population.

00:06:04.000 The vast and overwhelming majority of the population are united in the determination that this will be the last war.

00:06:15.000 And Israel has been at war since its birth in 1948.

00:06:20.000 This will be the last war, by which they mean what October the 7th did is it told us,

00:06:27.000 it kind of entered the iron into our soul, our collective soul in Israel, that never again would we ever be put in that position of being under that kind of existential attack.

00:06:40.000 Because hitherto, Israel has been, you know, it was called mowing the lawn, you know, you put up with the rocket attacks from Gaza.

00:06:51.000 And then after about two years of these hundreds of rocket attacks, you say no more and you go in and you deal Hamas a bad blow and then you come back and then Hamas recovers and then it does it again.

00:07:02.000 And similarly with the Hezbollah, everyone knew that they have what, we don't know how many, at least 250,000 missiles which have been situated inside the civilian population in order to hit Israel.

00:07:17.000 And everyone just sort of sat there and said, well, you know, let's hope they don't ever activate it.

00:07:24.000 And so now people know that we can't do that anymore because we can't ever take the risk of something which was akin to the Holocaust in a much smaller scale,

00:07:33.000 scale, but in terms of sadism, in terms of not just killing Israelis, but the desire to do them, to torture them and the sadism involved, the psychopathy involved, was redolent of the Holocaust.

00:07:52.300 We can't have that ever again.

00:07:54.680 And so the country is absolutely determined.

00:07:56.620 And when people in the Biden administration, they believe, and other people in Britain, they believe that, you know, this is all Netanyahu's fault.

00:08:05.560 He is determined to wage war in order to stay in power.

00:08:10.640 This is ridiculous.

00:08:12.540 One can loathe Netanyahu.

00:08:14.780 One can believe he's entirely unfit for public office.

00:08:17.620 One can believe everything bad that's written about him.

00:08:20.480 But no prime minister of Israel in these circumstances could or would have done anything other than he's doing.

00:08:28.420 And the people of Israel are behind everything he's doing, overwhelmingly.

00:08:32.940 They want Hamas in Gaza smashed so that it can never again be a military threat to Israel.

00:08:41.140 They want the Hezbollah smashed so that it can never again be a military threat to Israel.

00:08:46.280 And they want the Iranian regime put back in its box or smashed so that it cannot complete the building of its nuclear bomb with which it intends finally to finish off the job that it's been doing for decades in killing Jews in Israel and other non-Jews in Israel.

00:09:05.500 So the people are actually pretty united.

00:09:08.060 So there is this amazing sense in Israel of being a deeply traumatized society and one that is absolutely determined and is pulling together the whole country.

00:09:20.680 It has a conscript army, an army of volunteers.

00:09:23.760 Well, they're not volunteers, but they are, you know, they're conscripted, but they're not professional soldiers.

00:09:28.240 So you have a kind of volunteer army on the front line, fighting and dying, and you have an army of volunteers, which is the Israeli people who are all pulling together.

00:09:41.580 And it's the most extraordinary thing.

00:09:43.720 And I feel being there, it's very frightening, very, very frightening.

00:09:48.760 But it's a great privilege because I believe this is a hinge point for the Jewish people.

00:09:53.840 I think we think the Jewish people, both in Israel and outside, are never going to be the same again.

00:09:58.320 It's going to change the Jewish people in the way that the Holocaust changed the Jewish people forever.

00:10:04.860 And it's also, it's going to change the way the Jewish people sees the West, because this is a hinge, we can talk about this, I'm sure, but it's a hinge point for the West.

00:10:16.220 This is where the West has been given a very, very clear choice.

00:10:19.900 On October the 7th, it was given a very clear choice.

00:10:22.340 Do you choose, in the West, do we in the West choose, civilization or barbarism?

00:10:29.700 And it's not chosen civilization.

00:10:32.100 Well, I would say the choice the West was actually given is the choice between civilization or weakness.

00:10:40.220 But let's set that aside for a moment, because it's definitely important.

00:10:44.700 You mentioned that this is going, that people in Israel feel that this must be the last war.

00:10:49.780 I understand that.

00:10:52.400 That's how I would feel.

00:10:54.980 But is, if we, I know it's difficult, but if we step back and look at the broader context, is that even possible, Melanie?

00:11:03.400 I mean, okay, let's say Israel is able to eradicate Hamas.

00:11:10.620 Let's say.

00:11:11.980 Hezbollah is a different kettle of fish entirely.

00:11:14.260 And if you're talking about Iran, I mean, Iran is a very powerful and big country who, with all respect, I don't think Israel is going to smash the regime.

00:11:23.720 So, how does this end?

00:11:28.780 Well, I can't answer that question.

00:11:32.560 And it is currently unanswerable.

00:11:35.020 There are too many unknown unknowns and known unknowns and unknown knowns, to quote somebody else.

00:11:41.400 Is it realistic to think it could be the last war?

00:11:45.860 It's not completely unrealistic.

00:11:48.860 It depends on various things happening.

00:11:51.220 If you think that the head of the snake is Iran, and you really can't solve this problem of the endless war without taking out Iran or the Iranian regime and neutralizing the Iranian regime in some way, you have to have America on side.

00:12:08.340 There's no question about that.

00:12:09.640 And America has been, until now, for many years, very unwilling to take on Iran.

00:12:14.640 So, that's another matter.

00:12:17.700 Israel has, historically, many other enemies than Iran.

00:12:21.600 Iran is Shia Muslim.

00:12:24.280 And before Iran became such a regional power and such a threat, it was Sunni Islam that was the main threat to Israel.

00:12:34.100 But, you know, before the war started, we saw what was happening, the Abraham Accords.

00:12:38.340 Saudi Arabia has not yet committed itself to come out as an ally of Israel, but it is.

00:12:45.600 The Gulf states, with the exception of Qatar, which is the patron and founder of Hamas, but the other Gulf states are all very openly for Israel.

00:12:56.000 And despite the fact that, you know, there's a lot of stuff being said about the war by Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states, I believe that the trajectory is still there.

00:13:08.240 That Saudi Arabia, the crown prince, who is the effective ruler of Saudi Arabia, believes that he cannot enable his country to grow and prosper unless it disavows itself of fundamentalist jihadi Islam, which it is trying to do.

00:13:30.140 Which is amazing, which is amazing, since it was the progenitor of Israel, which is amazing, since it was the progenitor of it, and make an ally and friend and partner of Israel.

00:13:39.700 And I believe that is still underlying, and if that were to happen, you know, when and if the smoke of battle eventually clears, if that were to happen, then you are looking at the war that ends all wars.

00:13:55.560 You are looking at the end of warfare against Israel.

00:14:01.320 It's not impossible, but a lot of things have to happen for that to happen.

00:14:06.360 Melanie, why is it that whenever we talk about Israel, that we're never honest, and I say the left particularly about this, about Islamism, about jihad.

00:14:18.200 Why is it, they talk about their children, obviously awful, obviously horrific, civilians being killed in warfare, obviously awful, obviously horrific, but they're never honest about Hezbollah.

00:14:30.460 They're never honest about Hamas, and they're never honest about what those organisations, what their mission statement is, and how they want to achieve it.

00:14:40.760 Well, it is puzzling, isn't it? Because, of course, the aims of Islamists are so completely at odds with the aims of the left.

00:14:50.760 The left are committed to, basically, you know, the rights of human beings, individual dignity, the rights of women, the rights of gay people, the rest of it, and the Islamists are committed to the opposite.

00:15:02.040 I think there are, I would say there are two principal reasons for this blindness by the left-stroke liberal classes in the West.

00:15:12.320 The first is that, for reasons which are quite complicated to go into, so I will encapsulate them as briefly as I can,

00:15:19.540 they believe that it is the West that is to blame for all the ills of the world, because the West, i.e. white-skinned people, have oppressed, over many centuries, all dark-skinned people,

00:15:33.060 and therefore dark-skinned people, as the victims of the West, can do no wrong, and that applies to minorities in Britain and the West as well.

00:15:40.580 So, you can't criticise the world of Islam at all. You get accused of Islamophobia. You can't criticise developing peoples without getting accused of racism and all of that.

00:15:52.580 So, that is a fundamental kind of brain-twisting default position that liberal society has got itself into.

00:16:02.160 So, that's like one reason, I think. But the other reason, which is allied to it, but is more, it is sharper and more vicious, is this, that unfortunately,

00:16:22.400 slaughtered Israelis get in the way of the narrative, and nothing can get in the way of the narrative.

00:16:29.880 By which I mean this. The narrative is that Israel is fundamentally illegitimate because it was created as a result of Western imperialism

00:16:43.120 by taking Jews who had no connection with the land except in their Bible, which nobody takes seriously,

00:16:53.700 taking them as a result of the Holocaust, and putting them into Palestine, where they displaced the indigenous people of the land,

00:17:03.840 and those that remain, they have oppressed ever since.

00:17:08.440 That is the narrative.

00:17:10.700 Every single part of that narrative is not just wrong.

00:17:15.360 It is not just a lie.

00:17:17.320 It is a lie that reverses the truth and writes the Jews out of their own history.

00:17:24.240 We can talk about that, if you want, in more detail.

00:17:26.840 Let's. Why don't you tell us the details of why that's wrong?

00:17:29.200 Okay. But let me just finish my thought, which is that that narrative defines the Western liberal.

00:17:35.860 It makes the Western liberal think, I am a good and moral person, and the evidence of my being a good and moral person devoted to the betterment of mankind

00:17:44.960 is that I defend the oppressed, who are the Palestinians, against the oppressor, who are the Israelis.

00:17:52.900 So if you have Israelis, as you had on October the 7th, who are slaughtered, raped, beheaded, burned alive, and kidnapped to be tortured, raped, and murdered,

00:18:08.320 by the people that I, as the morally perfect person, have been supporting, that can't be.

00:18:19.000 Because if I were to admit that happened, I would no longer be a moral person.

00:18:26.280 Worse, I would be agreeing with the people who oppose me, who are bad and evil people, who are the right.

00:18:36.520 I would become right-wing. That cannot happen.

00:18:40.680 So I must deny it.

00:18:42.600 So I must say, they weren't raped.

00:18:46.040 There's no evidence of that.

00:18:47.140 Or murdered, yeah, but like, they brought it on themselves.

00:18:55.140 Hamas, mass murderers? No.

00:18:58.860 Resistance, they're resisting the colonizer.

00:19:01.760 Genocide? It's the Israelis who are committing genocide.

00:19:05.180 Here are the Israelis who are faced with a true genocidal enemy,

00:19:09.400 who say, in turns, our intention is to destroy Israel and murder every Jew on the planet.

00:19:17.360 Okay?

00:19:18.160 That's not just what the Hamas say.

00:19:20.400 It's not just what the Hezbollah say.

00:19:22.740 It's what the Palestinian Authority tells its children.

00:19:25.840 No one in the liberal West can ever admit that because for decades they have hung their moral personality on supporting that cause.

00:19:38.020 Now, why do I say it's the reverse?

00:19:42.780 Because the idea that the Jews have no connection with the land is the reverse of the truth.

00:19:53.520 The Jews are the only people for whom the land of Israel, the Holy Land, was ever their national kingdom.

00:20:03.080 It was the national kingdom of the Jewish people centuries before Islam was created.

00:20:09.960 And before waves of colonizers came in, the Romans, the Christians, the different types of Muslim,

00:20:20.600 and then the Ottoman Empire, which collapsed after the First World War.

00:20:25.660 And as a result, the West carved out the Middle East, created a number of countries, Iraq, Syria,

00:20:32.540 and gave Palestine under mandate to the British for the homeland of the Jewish people.

00:20:40.120 And that homeland, as defined by the parameters, the geographical boundaries of Palestine,

00:20:45.920 Palestine, to begin with, in 1920, it consisted of what is now Israel, the West Bank, Gaza, and Jordan.

00:20:57.840 Along came Winston Churchill, and for reasons of realpolitik,

00:21:02.280 gave about 70% of that land of Palestine to become Transjordan.

00:21:09.640 Okay?

00:21:10.300 What was left was Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza.

00:21:15.920 And in 1922, Britain was given a mandate to settle the Jews alone in that territory,

00:21:22.280 throughout that territory, for their national homeland.

00:21:26.340 And on the back of the returning Jews poured in from the Arab world, from elsewhere,

00:21:33.000 vast numbers of people who could see that the Jews were coming back,

00:21:37.540 they were bringing jobs, they were bringing prosperity, they were bringing growth,

00:21:40.540 they were going to create a homeland.

00:21:42.040 So everybody poured in from the Arab countries.

00:21:44.440 And a very large proportion of people who are now said to be Palestinians

00:21:49.580 and are said to have been there since time immemorial came in during the 1920s and 1930s.

00:21:55.320 So that is the history.

00:21:57.460 And the Palestinian identity was created artificially in the 1960s, cooked up between Nasser Arafat,

00:22:06.660 who was then running the PLO, Palestine Liberation Organization, terrorist organization,

00:22:11.380 and the Soviet Union, who had a common interest, the left and the Palestinian cause,

00:22:17.560 in subverting the West.

00:22:19.820 The Russians wanted to subvert the West to take over its brain and basically destroy it.

00:22:26.620 And Yasser Arafat wanted to colonize the Western intellectual mind with the idea that the Palestinians

00:22:37.820 were a nationality who were there from the beginning.

00:22:41.780 And consequently, the thing went into reverse.

00:22:44.700 History went into reverse.

00:22:47.160 And if you buy the Palestinian cause, what you are buying into is not the redress of an ancient wrong,

00:22:55.840 an ancient grievance against the people, the Palestinians who were dispossessed.

00:22:59.820 What you're actually buying into is writing the Jewish people out of their own history in the land.

00:23:06.200 And not only are you doing that, you're not only hitting Israel and the Israelis,

00:23:11.120 you are hitting at Judaism itself.

00:23:15.740 Because Judaism, again, not understood in the West,

00:23:19.140 Judaism is not a religion in the way that Christianity is or Islam is.

00:23:23.720 In other words, it's a relationship between you and the Almighty.

00:23:27.400 It's not just that. Judaism is a kind of three-legged stool

00:23:31.520 consisting of the people, the religion, and the land.

00:23:34.960 The religion is based on the people being given a divine mandate in the land

00:23:39.820 to live under a set of laws.

00:23:43.140 And so if you take one of those legs away, Judaism collapses.

00:23:47.460 Now, it doesn't mean that to be a Jew, you've got to go and live in Israel.

00:23:51.020 It doesn't mean that to be a Jew, you've got to be, you know, religiously observant.

00:23:55.420 Not at all. But Judaism itself is that three-legged stool.

00:24:01.800 And so if you basically write the Jews out of their own history in the land,

00:24:06.420 you are not just attacking Israel fundamentally, you're attacking Judaism itself.

00:24:10.440 It's a fundamentally anti-Jewish thing.

00:24:12.800 And this is the terrible thing that the liberal left in the West has got itself into,

00:24:20.880 that it tells itself that by supporting this cause,

00:24:24.680 it is proving itself to itself all the time as moral and decent

00:24:29.060 and forward-looking and progressive

00:24:31.100 and taking the side of the oppressed against the oppressor.

00:24:34.240 They are doing precisely the opposite.

00:24:37.300 They are standing for lies.

00:24:39.720 They are standing for distortion.

00:24:42.320 They are standing for a denial of reason and fact.

00:24:45.980 They are supporting the oppressor, the colonizer.

00:24:49.380 They are supporting colonization against a liberation movement.

00:24:54.640 Zionism is the liberation movement of the Jewish people

00:24:56.980 against oppressive colonization.

00:24:59.200 So this is the tragedy because in Britain, it's not the same in America,

00:25:07.520 but in Britain, there is no platform where one is able to say this

00:25:12.240 in the mainstream media.

00:25:16.100 Okay, you've got occasional journalists on occasional publications

00:25:20.240 who say something like this.

00:25:22.500 But generally, if you stand up and say this,

00:25:24.940 and I know this from personal experience

00:25:26.580 and others know it from personal experience,

00:25:28.920 if you stand up and say this unequivocally,

00:25:31.840 you don't get invited back onto the TV or radio show

00:25:36.680 and you don't get invited to write a foreign newspaper,

00:25:41.800 generally speaking, with some exceptions.

00:25:44.480 And so vast numbers of people,

00:25:46.980 I would say the vast majority of people in Britain,

00:25:49.320 even those who are well disposed towards Israel,

00:25:52.880 they don't understand the enormity of the obscenity

00:25:58.860 of what we are living through

00:26:00.720 in this perverse reaction that you describe.

00:26:03.880 Listening to you, Melanie,

00:26:05.220 there were points a couple of years ago,

00:26:07.660 or even last year, before October the 7th,

00:26:10.600 I'd be like, I would have been,

00:26:12.080 hang on a second, this is a bit much.

00:26:14.020 But then when I saw what happened

00:26:16.420 on October the 7th and October the 8th,

00:26:19.840 just the wave of anti-Semitism immediately

00:26:23.240 before any reaction had started from Israel,

00:26:26.220 pro-Palestine marches.

00:26:28.300 And as well, just the rhetoric people were saying

00:26:32.320 and the things that they were saying,

00:26:34.560 I was like, this is awful.

00:26:35.780 This is actually anti-Semitism.

00:26:38.020 Just raw naked Jew hatred.

00:26:40.920 It was violent.

00:26:42.280 Well, that's what's been so shocking to so many people

00:26:46.420 because it's been so blatant and so obvious

00:26:49.340 that people no longer feel any kind of shame

00:26:55.860 or embarrassment about being anti-Jew.

00:27:01.080 Now, it's not quite true, having said that,

00:27:02.820 because a lot of people still feel enough shame

00:27:06.300 and embarrassment to couch it as anti-Zionism.

00:27:08.540 But it makes no sense.

00:27:12.380 You know, we hate Zionists.

00:27:14.420 I mean, as people have been screaming.

00:27:17.540 It makes no sense in its own terms

00:27:19.580 because clearly they're talking about Jews.

00:27:24.300 They're not talking about Zionism

00:27:27.160 as an abstract philosophy.

00:27:29.360 They don't even know what it is.

00:27:31.000 I mean, if you ask them, what is Zionism?

00:27:33.640 Or what is a Zionist?

00:27:35.520 I mean, like people screaming from the river to the sea.

00:27:38.260 They don't know which river

00:27:39.020 and they don't know which sea.

00:27:41.720 So, but it's even more than that.

00:27:45.180 It's, people are screaming about Jews per se.

00:27:52.380 And of course, Jews are being attacked

00:27:54.600 physically and verbally all the time

00:27:56.800 at an unprecedented rate here in Britain

00:28:00.860 and elsewhere in the West.

00:28:02.600 In America, it's happening also.

00:28:04.400 In France, it's off the scale.

00:28:05.820 And again, this is quite a complicated business to unpick

00:28:09.680 because, you know, anti-Semitism is called

00:28:11.880 the longest hatred.

00:28:13.000 In fact, it is the eternal hatred.

00:28:15.180 It's been around ever since Jews first emerged

00:28:18.640 in antiquity.

00:28:20.500 And it's taken different forms.

00:28:22.560 And, you know, we've had, you know,

00:28:27.120 in the pre-modern period, Christian anti-Semitism.

00:28:32.620 We've had racial anti-Semitism under the Nazis.

00:28:37.240 And now we have, you know,

00:28:38.720 the desire to eradicate from the world

00:28:42.980 the collective Jew in Israel.

00:28:46.100 And it's, for those of us, you know,

00:28:50.120 who live with this and who understand the dynamic,

00:28:52.900 it's the same thing.

00:28:54.880 But the question is why it is so omnipresent.

00:28:58.800 Not omnipresent, why it is so,

00:29:01.280 boy, yes, why it's so omnipresent,

00:29:02.540 but also why it's so brazen.

00:29:05.120 And that's because there's really no pushback.

00:29:07.100 Because people are very, very, very reluctant

00:29:14.940 to think that the Jews are unique.

00:29:19.460 So even if people are troubled

00:29:22.180 by what they perceive to be, you know,

00:29:25.280 a remarkable obsession with Israel,

00:29:29.340 with Jews and so on,

00:29:31.820 with very few exceptions,

00:29:34.640 they're not prepared to stand up and say,

00:29:36.340 this is a unique evil

00:29:38.400 that has dogged the Jewish people forever.

00:29:41.480 And we're seeing it now.

00:29:43.320 It's unique.

00:29:44.200 And we have to have a unique approach to it.

00:29:46.540 And we have to protect the Jews.

00:29:48.720 And they don't say that.

00:29:50.360 They say, we're against all forms of prejudice.

00:29:54.640 We're against anti-Semitism and Islamophobia.

00:29:58.260 Anti-Semitism and Islamophobia.

00:30:00.620 It's one word.

00:30:02.500 Anti-Semitism and Islamophobia.

00:30:04.700 Okay.

00:30:04.980 Now, if you're against anti-Semitism and Islamophobia,

00:30:09.640 you cannot ever say

00:30:11.860 there is a major problem

00:30:13.560 in the Muslim community of anti-Semitism.

00:30:15.640 You can't say that because it's Islamophobic.

00:30:18.240 So immediately you're paralyzed.

00:30:20.360 And that's what we're living through.

00:30:24.040 Anti-Semitism is coming at us

00:30:25.820 from different constituencies.

00:30:30.980 One constituency is the left.

00:30:36.080 One constituency is the Muslim world.

00:30:40.620 And one constituency is the people who

00:30:43.400 are going along with this narrative

00:30:47.020 because they think they are supporting

00:30:49.640 the oppressed and the underprivileged of the world,

00:30:52.100 either Palestinians.

00:30:52.800 But actually, when they're marching alongside

00:30:55.860 the people screaming

00:30:58.320 and globalize the Intifada,

00:31:02.140 which means murder Jews throughout the world,

00:31:04.960 and in fact, not just murder Jews throughout the world,

00:31:07.020 but rise up against the West everywhere.

00:31:09.680 When they're going alongside people

00:31:12.940 screaming from the river to the sea,

00:31:15.140 they're marching alongside people

00:31:16.960 screaming for genocide.

00:31:19.960 So I would call those

00:31:21.140 well-meaning, naive liberals

00:31:23.980 who are not the left

00:31:25.380 and they're not the Muslim branch

00:31:28.040 or the branch of the Muslim world

00:31:30.740 that is doing this.

00:31:32.160 But they are people

00:31:33.440 who are nevertheless lending themselves to this.

00:31:35.900 It's coming from three different constituencies.

00:31:39.400 Why are they doing that, Melanie?

00:31:40.540 Because I went along to some of these protests

00:31:42.760 and I spoke to people

00:31:44.900 and we have the video on our channel.

00:31:46.780 Millions of people around the world

00:31:48.020 have seen it now.

00:31:49.600 And there was a guy,

00:31:51.980 the one in particular,

00:31:53.060 that really struck me.

00:31:54.300 He had a sign-up saying

00:31:56.360 something, something,

00:31:58.600 socialist Intifada.

00:32:00.580 And I said,

00:32:01.280 what do you mean by a socialist Intifada?

00:32:03.540 And he went...

00:32:04.380 If I'm being honest with you,

00:32:05.620 I just got this at the stand over there.

00:32:08.060 Okay.

00:32:08.600 I don't actually know

00:32:09.880 the definition of the word Intifada.

00:32:12.200 Okay.

00:32:12.680 But, I mean...

00:32:13.580 Do any of you know the definition

00:32:14.700 of the word Intifada?

00:32:16.680 I don't know what Intifada means.

00:32:18.280 I picked up the sign over there.

00:32:20.080 Right.

00:32:21.060 And I said to his friends,

00:32:22.320 do you know what Intifada...

00:32:23.160 None of them knew what Intifada meant.

00:32:24.660 Right.

00:32:26.280 And so,

00:32:28.000 I'm not clear in my mind

00:32:31.060 because very often,

00:32:32.940 one of the things I've been...

00:32:34.040 Sorry, this is taking a long time,

00:32:35.360 but I'm just trying to unpack this.

00:32:36.820 One of the things I found very odd,

00:32:38.860 if you remember,

00:32:39.440 the first time you came on the show,

00:32:41.400 we were asked...

00:32:42.380 This is 2019 now.

00:32:43.900 So, before this recent flare-up,

00:32:45.900 before October 7th,

00:32:47.020 and I asked you

00:32:48.640 to kind of talk about Israel

00:32:50.100 and the history of Israel,

00:32:50.920 and I wasn't particularly convinced

00:32:52.400 by your argument,

00:32:53.040 I have to say,

00:32:53.940 on some things.

00:32:55.800 And I came away from it thinking,

00:32:57.480 you know, Melanie,

00:32:57.700 you made some good points,

00:32:58.660 but also I'm not sure

00:32:59.400 about the creation.

00:33:00.320 No, no, no, no.

00:33:01.140 And then when this October 7th happened,

00:33:05.020 it took me a few months

00:33:05.860 just to kind of work out

00:33:07.480 what the hell was going on

00:33:08.580 and to start to think about it

00:33:10.360 logically and rationally

00:33:11.420 and try and understand it

00:33:12.600 dispassionately.

00:33:14.920 And now it's been a year.

00:33:17.520 When I look at it objectively,

00:33:18.980 the one thing that stands out for me

00:33:20.560 is that Israel is not being treated

00:33:24.420 like any other country at all.

00:33:26.540 It just isn't, objectively.

00:33:28.220 Israel is engaged in a military operation

00:33:30.560 in Gaza in which the ratio of casualties

00:33:33.020 among civilians to fighters

00:33:35.280 is the lowest of any modern warfare

00:33:39.680 in urban combat.

00:33:42.400 Most of people don't even realize

00:33:44.060 that, you know,

00:33:44.900 the recent flare-up with Hezbollah

00:33:46.560 is caused by the fact

00:33:47.520 that since October 7th,

00:33:49.140 Hezbollah has been attacking Israel every day.

00:33:50.900 When I see the Pager operation,

00:33:56.240 it is clearly the most surgically targeted

00:33:59.660 military operation in history.

00:34:02.100 Yet we have politicians going on airwaves

00:34:04.760 and saying the indiscriminate attacks.

00:34:07.240 And I'm going,

00:34:07.700 do you even know

00:34:08.640 what the word indiscriminate means?

00:34:10.460 Now, and what I've also found

00:34:13.120 is my grandfather was Jewish.

00:34:14.840 I was raised as a Christian.

00:34:16.680 My parents are Christians.

00:34:17.860 But suddenly the fact

00:34:19.620 that I'm a quarter-Jewish

00:34:20.920 became very important

00:34:21.800 to a lot of people all of a sudden.

00:34:23.360 Really?

00:34:23.720 Yes, all of a sudden.

00:34:26.060 And I know that the answer

00:34:30.600 to why this is happening

00:34:32.260 in many people's minds

00:34:33.360 is anti-Semitism.

00:34:34.380 They will say,

00:34:35.240 people just hate the Jews

00:34:36.180 and this is why Israel

00:34:37.020 gets special treatment.

00:34:38.440 But when I saw those young people

00:34:39.940 in those protests,

00:34:41.200 they don't know what the hell

00:34:42.160 they're talking about.

00:34:43.000 They don't hate Jews.

00:34:44.160 They don't know anything.

00:34:45.820 That's right.

00:34:46.100 So why is that happening?

00:34:46.880 Well, they are going along

00:34:49.060 with the fashionable consensus.

00:34:51.500 It's a thing.

00:34:52.840 I mean, it's not just a cause.

00:34:54.960 You say Israel is treated

00:34:56.120 in a completely different way

00:34:58.240 to everybody else,

00:34:58.980 any other country.

00:34:59.700 It's absolutely correct.

00:35:00.840 But the cause is different

00:35:02.480 from any other cause.

00:35:04.380 Because, okay,

00:35:05.940 I remember the great fight

00:35:07.600 against apartheid,

00:35:10.040 South Africa,

00:35:10.660 against apartheid in South Africa.

00:35:12.760 And it was a very worthy cause.

00:35:15.000 A lot of people were signed up to it.

00:35:17.140 They thought about it a lot.

00:35:19.420 They marched.

00:35:21.140 But it didn't take over the society

00:35:24.440 in the way this has done.

00:35:26.140 I mean, here you have

00:35:26.900 the Palestine flag,

00:35:28.360 so-called,

00:35:31.060 appearing on,

00:35:32.920 I mean,

00:35:33.260 it appears everywhere

00:35:34.580 as a motif.

00:35:36.820 And put aside

00:35:37.960 why this is happening

00:35:39.180 and the amount of money

00:35:40.360 and organization

00:35:41.200 that goes behind that,

00:35:42.200 put that to one side.

00:35:43.880 It's kind of omnipresent

00:35:46.020 and it's unchallenged.

00:35:49.060 The BBC regards it

00:35:51.360 as a cause

00:35:52.860 which is beyond challenge.

00:35:55.080 You know,

00:35:55.740 it regards it

00:35:56.340 as the cause

00:35:56.820 of good versus evil.

00:35:58.080 It's got it

00:35:58.640 absolutely the wrong way around.

00:36:01.140 But if you're living,

00:36:02.300 if you're immersed

00:36:03.080 in that kind of atmosphere

00:36:04.160 and you're a young person

00:36:05.780 and you are

00:36:07.080 in the education world

00:36:08.760 and the education world

00:36:09.820 is absolutely saturated

00:36:12.520 with people

00:36:13.580 who believe this,

00:36:15.500 that good is evil

00:36:16.520 and evil is good,

00:36:17.800 then you're going to,

00:36:18.760 you're going to do that.

00:36:22.920 The deeper question is

00:36:24.320 why all those people

00:36:26.420 who have influenced

00:36:27.040 those impressionable

00:36:28.420 young people

00:36:29.160 have signed on

00:36:31.680 to such a lunatic obsession.

00:36:35.300 And ultimately,

00:36:36.820 I can't really answer this

00:36:38.180 because it is

00:36:39.180 so fundamentally

00:36:42.580 outrageously absurd

00:36:45.840 as to be

00:36:47.160 really unanswerable.

00:36:48.480 But there are certain

00:36:49.260 obvious things

00:36:52.200 that I would say.

00:36:53.200 you talk about the pages

00:36:57.660 and you say

00:36:59.920 quite correctly

00:37:00.680 this was the most

00:37:01.460 surgical operation

00:37:02.360 possible

00:37:02.820 to take out

00:37:03.380 thousands of the

00:37:04.280 enemy combatants

00:37:05.360 through this thing.

00:37:07.600 And it's been turned

00:37:08.240 into a war crime.

00:37:10.700 And the way it's been

00:37:11.220 turned into a war crime

00:37:12.040 is people say,

00:37:13.160 you know,

00:37:14.100 it was,

00:37:14.660 it was,

00:37:15.360 it was willfully,

00:37:18.200 willfully taking

00:37:19.860 an ordinary piece

00:37:24.520 of household equipment,

00:37:25.920 a pager,

00:37:27.180 an ordinary thing,

00:37:28.620 and booby-trapping it.

00:37:30.420 Well, in fact,

00:37:30.780 that's not true.

00:37:32.260 These weren't ordinary things.

00:37:34.080 These weren't ordinary pagers.

00:37:35.400 These were specific devices

00:37:37.520 issued by a terrorist army,

00:37:41.640 Hezbollah,

00:37:42.780 to its own people

00:37:45.680 as weapons of war.

00:37:47.580 These pagers are designed

00:37:48.880 to call people to war.

00:37:50.940 If they're reservists,

00:37:52.280 they're called to war.

00:37:53.400 If they are already

00:37:54.760 active combatants,

00:37:55.860 they're told

00:37:56.440 where to go,

00:37:57.240 what to do.

00:37:58.000 They're weapons of war.

00:37:59.380 And therefore,

00:38:00.260 the pagers

00:38:00.740 and the people holding them

00:38:02.200 are absolutely

00:38:03.200 legitimate targets.

00:38:05.420 And one of the things

00:38:06.340 that struck me

00:38:07.060 about all that inversion

00:38:08.820 in which people were saying

00:38:10.160 this was a war crime

00:38:12.140 was the same thing

00:38:15.800 that they've been saying

00:38:16.680 throughout,

00:38:17.280 that, you know,

00:38:17.940 Israel's defense

00:38:18.880 against genocide

00:38:19.700 is genocide.

00:38:21.560 And what it means

00:38:22.500 is that

00:38:23.040 whatever Israel does

00:38:24.860 to defend itself

00:38:26.300 cannot be permitted.

00:38:27.400 Yes.

00:38:27.780 This is what I've noticed.

00:38:29.080 This is the thing

00:38:30.280 that's been bothering me

00:38:31.260 because

00:38:31.600 this is the bit

00:38:33.420 I don't understand.

00:38:34.500 Okay.

00:38:34.980 Why is it

00:38:36.460 that when Israel does,

00:38:38.520 if this had happened

00:38:39.660 in Britain

00:38:40.140 on a per capita basis,

00:38:42.260 35,000 people

00:38:43.660 killed or captured

00:38:45.200 and taken as hostages

00:38:46.340 or in America,

00:38:48.080 we would have bombed

00:38:49.680 the shit out of

00:38:50.720 anyone who had stood

00:38:52.140 next to the dog

00:38:53.360 of the guy who did it.

00:38:54.380 We would have turned

00:38:55.660 countries into rubble.

00:38:56.840 That's right.

00:38:57.760 And yet when Israel

00:38:58.600 targets pages,

00:38:59.620 that's indiscriminate.

00:39:00.540 Yes.

00:39:00.960 Why?

00:39:01.480 Why is that?

00:39:02.020 Various things are happening.

00:39:02.900 First of all,

00:39:04.000 even among people

00:39:04.860 who are sympathetic

00:39:06.020 or think they're sympathetic

00:39:06.980 to Israel,

00:39:07.920 including the British government,

00:39:08.920 there is this very deeply,

00:39:12.860 deeply felt view

00:39:15.500 that Israel is fundamentally

00:39:17.420 the problem in the region.

00:39:19.580 If Israel wasn't there,

00:39:21.220 there wouldn't be a problem.

00:39:23.480 That's what they all think.

00:39:24.860 That's true.

00:39:25.560 And consequently,

00:39:27.080 Israel has to be basically,

00:39:28.940 you know,

00:39:29.560 if Israel is the problem,

00:39:30.980 then Israel has to be stopped.

00:39:32.920 And if Israel is defending itself,

00:39:35.120 it becomes aggression.

00:39:36.300 Because if Israel wasn't

00:39:37.980 defending itself,

00:39:39.200 there wouldn't be a war.

00:39:40.480 Of course there wouldn't be a war.

00:39:42.060 Every Israeli would be killed.

00:39:45.020 Okay?

00:39:45.920 But of course,

00:39:46.520 those people who are saying this

00:39:47.960 don't follow that logic through.

00:39:49.460 But that's effectively

00:39:50.460 what they're saying.

00:39:52.200 So there's that.

00:39:53.180 Israel is perceived

00:39:53.960 as the problem

00:39:54.580 because of an entirely

00:39:55.920 false view of history

00:39:57.320 in which Britain was complicit.

00:40:00.520 Britain is actually

00:40:01.320 the cause of Israel's

00:40:03.300 beleaguement

00:40:04.460 because it was Britain

00:40:05.860 in the 1930s

00:40:07.180 having been handed

00:40:09.000 this binding,

00:40:11.200 internationally binding

00:40:13.260 obligation

00:40:14.080 to settle the Jews

00:40:15.580 for their national homeland

00:40:17.060 throughout

00:40:17.720 what was then,

00:40:19.300 what is now

00:40:19.980 the State of Israel,

00:40:21.620 West Bank

00:40:22.080 and Gaza.

00:40:24.340 Renegued on it

00:40:25.420 and faced with

00:40:26.960 the Arabs

00:40:28.100 who were trying

00:40:28.740 to slaughter every Jew

00:40:30.220 as a matter of

00:40:31.500 Islamic holy war

00:40:32.760 because no Jewish

00:40:34.640 homeland could be

00:40:35.440 permitted

00:40:35.760 in that area

00:40:37.200 from their point

00:40:38.400 of view

00:40:39.000 faced with that

00:40:40.220 uprising

00:40:40.820 Britain didn't say

00:40:42.880 excuse me

00:40:44.300 Arab world

00:40:45.280 this is not on.

00:40:48.080 Britain said

00:40:49.200 oh

00:40:49.960 Arab world

00:40:51.520 have

00:40:52.560 part of

00:40:54.080 what we're giving

00:40:55.260 to the Jews

00:40:55.860 instead.

00:40:56.980 Have it.

00:40:57.800 You can have it.

00:40:59.080 And the Arabs said

00:41:00.080 we want it all.

00:41:00.920 we want the Jews gone

00:41:02.180 and the rest is history.

00:41:04.460 Britain continues

00:41:05.200 to maintain

00:41:06.200 that position.

00:41:07.520 So in fact

00:41:07.900 you could say

00:41:08.280 Britain is actually

00:41:09.120 at the heart

00:41:09.920 of this problem.

00:41:11.360 Anyway

00:41:11.620 there is this

00:41:14.200 as I say

00:41:14.740 fundamental belief

00:41:15.820 in the British ruling class

00:41:17.060 and the Western ruling class

00:41:18.080 and the Western intelligents

00:41:18.980 that Israel is the problem

00:41:20.020 but it's something

00:41:21.300 deeper than that

00:41:22.100 which I think

00:41:22.840 we're kind of

00:41:23.640 hinting at.

00:41:25.940 There is a view

00:41:26.840 that the Jews

00:41:27.320 are a problem

00:41:27.760 and this view

00:41:30.040 is

00:41:30.660 it's

00:41:32.200 it's

00:41:33.140 I couldn't say

00:41:33.840 buried

00:41:34.420 but I don't mean

00:41:35.300 concealed

00:41:36.020 I mean

00:41:37.080 it is

00:41:37.640 it is a kind of

00:41:38.340 fundamental part

00:41:39.260 of Western culture

00:41:40.140 that

00:41:41.040 what I'm talking about

00:41:43.720 is anti-Semitism

00:41:44.580 but

00:41:45.660 the part of anti-Semitism

00:41:46.940 which says

00:41:47.760 the Jews

00:41:49.500 are fundamentally

00:41:50.340 a threat

00:41:51.380 to everybody else

00:41:52.740 because

00:41:53.620 fundamentally

00:41:54.460 they are

00:41:56.020 they have a kind of

00:41:56.780 demonic power

00:41:58.220 this is that

00:41:59.580 true anti-Semitism

00:42:00.440 the Jews

00:42:01.560 have a kind of

00:42:02.160 demonic power

00:42:03.040 because

00:42:03.440 there are so few of them

00:42:05.140 but look how powerful

00:42:06.300 they are

00:42:06.840 they're behind capitalism

00:42:07.920 they're all lawyers

00:42:08.920 they're all

00:42:09.420 TV moguls

00:42:10.520 and so on

00:42:11.140 and so

00:42:12.460 the idea of

00:42:13.200 Jewish power

00:42:14.060 if you look at

00:42:15.060 anti-Semitism

00:42:15.660 throughout the centuries

00:42:17.000 Christian anti-Semitism

00:42:18.220 racial anti-Semitism

00:42:20.740 there is this

00:42:22.300 paranoia

00:42:23.360 clinical paranoia

00:42:25.420 about Jewish power

00:42:26.880 I say it's clinical paranoia

00:42:28.320 because it's untrue

00:42:29.420 it's based on

00:42:29.940 it's a bit of a nonsense

00:42:31.260 the Jews are the most

00:42:32.420 persecuted people

00:42:33.340 in history

00:42:33.900 how can they have

00:42:35.020 demonic power

00:42:36.280 but nevertheless

00:42:36.960 there is a belief

00:42:37.840 the Jews

00:42:38.800 and power

00:42:39.480 that is the problem

00:42:40.700 you have Israel

00:42:42.060 Israel

00:42:43.080 is powerful

00:42:44.480 Israel has made

00:42:46.140 itself powerful

00:42:46.980 on the basis

00:42:47.640 that only if Israel

00:42:48.580 has military power

00:42:49.780 can it

00:42:50.700 fulfill its

00:42:51.700 sacred oath

00:42:52.480 that never again

00:42:53.420 will the Holocaust

00:42:53.980 happen

00:42:54.460 that cannot be

00:42:58.700 permitted

00:42:59.000 you cannot have

00:43:00.100 Jewish power

00:43:00.800 and so the idea

00:43:02.580 of Israel

00:43:03.120 defending itself

00:43:04.280 with massive power

00:43:05.740 because it's facing

00:43:07.020 a massive threat

00:43:08.220 to itself

00:43:09.280 from the forces

00:43:11.360 who are literally

00:43:12.060 billions of people

00:43:13.220 in the Arab

00:43:14.760 and Muslim world

00:43:15.760 who wish it

00:43:16.280 to be destroyed

00:43:17.000 that cannot be

00:43:18.600 because it's

00:43:19.220 Jewish power

00:43:20.040 I feel that

00:43:20.980 very strongly

00:43:21.620 and that's part

00:43:22.840 of the wider

00:43:23.940 problem of

00:43:24.540 anti-Semitism

00:43:25.080 that we're seeing

00:43:25.900 Melanie do you

00:43:27.220 not think as well

00:43:28.020 the issue is

00:43:28.700 is that this

00:43:29.400 conflict is

00:43:30.280 incredibly

00:43:30.820 complicated

00:43:32.120 you have to

00:43:33.060 read about

00:43:33.420 history

00:43:33.820 you have to

00:43:34.280 understand the

00:43:34.840 politics behind it

00:43:35.720 you have to

00:43:36.120 understand the

00:43:36.640 religious element

00:43:37.380 you need to

00:43:38.240 tackle the

00:43:39.140 thorny issue

00:43:40.060 of Islamism

00:43:41.480 within Islam

00:43:42.360 radical jihad

00:43:44.080 these groups

00:43:45.360 a lot of people

00:43:46.300 simply don't have

00:43:47.260 the time

00:43:47.780 for sure

00:43:48.580 the patience

00:43:49.200 or the inclination

00:43:50.340 let's be fair

00:43:51.200 to want to do

00:43:52.580 the reading

00:43:53.040 and the work

00:43:53.580 in order to

00:43:54.080 understand

00:43:54.500 and then you

00:43:55.400 come to the

00:43:55.980 point that it's

00:43:56.680 complicated

00:43:57.180 and there is

00:43:58.300 no such

00:43:59.000 you know

00:43:59.780 these sweeping

00:44:00.560 narratives that

00:44:01.380 the people

00:44:02.540 buy into

00:44:03.300 it's just

00:44:06.300 easy

00:44:06.880 so it's

00:44:07.420 easier for people

00:44:08.460 just to take

00:44:09.080 one particular

00:44:09.900 point

00:44:10.340 hold up a

00:44:11.440 placard saying

00:44:12.160 I want a

00:44:12.700 globalist

00:44:13.200 intifada

00:44:13.780 it makes me

00:44:14.840 feel good

00:44:15.320 I'm on the

00:44:16.120 right side of

00:44:16.680 history

00:44:17.040 and here

00:44:17.720 we are

00:44:18.180 well that's

00:44:19.360 absolutely

00:44:19.600 correct

00:44:20.080 and this

00:44:21.280 is the

00:44:21.540 road to

00:44:21.820 hell

00:44:22.020 I have to

00:44:23.980 say

00:44:24.280 and a lot

00:44:25.020 of us

00:44:25.320 in the

00:44:25.880 Jewish

00:44:26.020 community

00:44:26.300 think this

00:44:26.920 now we

00:44:28.500 understand

00:44:29.020 why the

00:44:29.420 Holocaust

00:44:29.680 happened

00:44:30.260 by which

00:44:32.840 I mean

00:44:33.200 now we

00:44:33.600 understand

00:44:34.240 how

00:44:34.980 I mean

00:44:35.360 this is the

00:44:35.660 question

00:44:35.900 everyone's

00:44:36.260 asked

00:44:36.620 all these

00:44:37.500 years

00:44:37.860 okay

00:44:38.160 there were

00:44:38.760 the Nazis

00:44:39.160 they believed

00:44:40.580 what they

00:44:40.860 believed

00:44:41.340 that was

00:44:41.900 terrible

00:44:42.260 but

00:44:43.620 they were

00:44:44.960 facilitated

00:44:45.780 by millions

00:44:47.300 of people

00:44:48.100 in Germany

00:44:49.160 and in

00:44:49.660 Eastern Europe

00:44:50.260 looking the

00:44:51.280 other way

00:44:51.820 how could

00:44:53.060 that have

00:44:53.860 happened

00:44:54.160 and now we

00:44:55.840 understand

00:44:56.360 now we

00:44:57.920 understand

00:44:58.440 for all these

00:44:59.180 reasons that we're

00:44:59.760 talking about

00:45:00.400 because we're

00:45:01.000 seeing it

00:45:01.400 happening now

00:45:02.240 in real time

00:45:03.740 we're seeing

00:45:05.420 how the

00:45:05.760 Western world

00:45:06.580 faced with

00:45:08.500 a genocidal

00:45:09.700 barbaric

00:45:12.420 set of

00:45:13.880 people

00:45:14.180 who did

00:45:15.480 the most

00:45:15.900 appalling

00:45:16.280 things on

00:45:17.040 October 7

00:45:17.600 and who

00:45:19.180 have

00:45:19.540 who did

00:45:21.400 it as

00:45:22.060 part of

00:45:22.620 an axis

00:45:23.220 of evil

00:45:24.160 of true

00:45:24.800 evil

00:45:25.220 of people

00:45:26.240 who say

00:45:27.100 they wish

00:45:27.880 to eradicate

00:45:28.680 Jews from

00:45:29.200 the face

00:45:29.540 of the

00:45:29.800 earth

00:45:30.080 and they

00:45:30.840 wish to

00:45:31.120 destroy the

00:45:31.620 state of

00:45:31.960 Israel

00:45:32.360 faced with

00:45:33.840 this which

00:45:34.320 is genocide

00:45:36.040 a genocidal

00:45:37.300 intention

00:45:37.800 true genocide

00:45:39.100 the idea

00:45:40.480 of wiping

00:45:41.040 out a

00:45:41.420 people

00:45:41.680 and wiping

00:45:42.620 out a

00:45:42.980 country

00:45:43.340 on the

00:45:44.360 basis you

00:45:44.780 don't like

00:45:45.180 the people

00:45:45.620 faced with

00:45:47.220 that

00:45:47.580 the West

00:45:49.240 is saying

00:45:50.180 well they

00:45:52.280 have a

00:45:52.580 point

00:45:52.980 and now

00:45:55.400 we understand

00:45:55.940 how the

00:45:56.280 Holocaust

00:45:56.520 happened

00:45:57.080 because it's

00:45:58.400 the same

00:45:59.220 thing

00:46:00.020 with the

00:46:00.820 same kind

00:46:01.320 of people

00:46:01.760 doing the

00:46:02.260 same kind

00:46:02.680 of thing

00:46:02.920 these people

00:46:03.480 in the

00:46:04.380 Islamic

00:46:04.640 world

00:46:05.100 I call

00:46:05.740 them

00:46:06.260 I think

00:46:07.060 the late

00:46:07.360 Christopher

00:46:07.740 Hitchens

00:46:08.100 possibly the

00:46:09.340 first person

00:46:09.880 to call

00:46:10.200 them this

00:46:10.540 Islamo-Nazis

00:46:12.060 they're not

00:46:13.360 just Islamo-Nazis

00:46:14.840 because they

00:46:15.260 kind of act

00:46:15.820 like the

00:46:16.140 Nazis

00:46:16.460 if you look

00:46:18.260 at the

00:46:18.680 long and

00:46:20.200 complicated

00:46:20.560 history

00:46:21.000 the history

00:46:21.320 of the

00:46:21.540 Palestinian

00:46:22.040 Arabs

00:46:23.000 in

00:46:23.740 pre-Israel

00:46:25.000 Palestine

00:46:25.520 they were

00:46:26.720 Hitler's

00:46:27.240 legions

00:46:27.620 in the

00:46:28.080 Middle East

00:46:28.600 their

00:46:29.680 religious

00:46:30.980 leader

00:46:31.500 made

00:46:33.920 an

00:46:35.040 agreement

00:46:35.780 with

00:46:36.580 Hitler

00:46:36.940 that if

00:46:37.660 Hitler

00:46:37.900 won the

00:46:38.940 war

00:46:39.260 then he

00:46:40.700 Haj Amin

00:46:41.600 al-Husseini

00:46:42.280 who was the

00:46:42.660 grand

00:46:42.860 mufti of

00:46:43.260 Jerusalem

00:46:43.680 would ensure

00:46:44.920 that every

00:46:45.480 Jew in

00:46:45.820 the Middle

00:46:46.100 East

00:46:46.260 not just

00:46:46.600 in

00:46:46.740 Palestine

00:46:47.140 every Jew

00:46:48.260 in the

00:46:48.500 Middle

00:46:48.660 East

00:46:49.020 would be

00:46:49.860 slaughtered

00:46:51.140 that's the

00:46:52.280 heirs of the

00:46:53.500 Palestinians

00:46:53.980 that man

00:46:55.180 Haj Amin

00:46:55.840 is

00:46:56.760 Mahmoud Abbas

00:46:57.640 pin-up

00:46:58.260 boy

00:46:58.560 he says

00:46:59.760 it

00:46:59.900 he's my

00:47:00.220 hero

00:47:00.580 right

00:47:01.680 so this

00:47:02.780 is what

00:47:03.020 we're

00:47:03.220 dealing

00:47:03.500 with

00:47:03.880 can we

00:47:04.140 just

00:47:04.300 stop

00:47:04.540 because

00:47:04.860 there's

00:47:05.060 a lot

00:47:05.260 of

00:47:05.380 people

00:47:05.580 who

00:47:05.720 wouldn't

00:47:05.900 know

00:47:06.040 who

00:47:06.220 Mahmoud Abbas

00:47:06.880 is

00:47:07.120 could you

00:47:07.380 just

00:47:07.560 explain

00:47:07.920 Mahmoud Abbas

00:47:08.840 is the

00:47:09.500 leader of

00:47:10.460 the

00:47:10.640 Palestinian

00:47:11.080 Authority

00:47:11.720 which is

00:47:12.600 supposedly

00:47:13.140 the

00:47:13.420 moderate

00:47:13.820 part

00:47:14.500 of

00:47:15.360 the

00:47:15.620 Palestinian

00:47:16.100 people

00:47:17.000 Hamas

00:47:17.720 is

00:47:17.920 supposedly

00:47:18.460 the

00:47:19.440 militant

00:47:20.640 terrorist

00:47:21.480 part

00:47:21.980 and the

00:47:22.600 Palestinian

00:47:22.960 Authority

00:47:23.460 are the

00:47:23.740 people

00:47:24.040 that

00:47:24.340 British

00:47:24.640 government

00:47:24.980 and the

00:47:25.320 American

00:47:25.580 government

00:47:26.000 and Western

00:47:26.400 governments

00:47:26.840 deal with

00:47:27.440 they fund

00:47:28.660 their

00:47:30.460 educational

00:47:31.120 programs

00:47:31.760 which teach

00:47:33.880 all their

00:47:34.460 children

00:47:34.800 for generations

00:47:35.640 to hate

00:47:36.780 and loathe

00:47:37.500 and fear

00:47:38.060 the Jewish

00:47:38.620 people

00:47:39.020 to kill

00:47:39.720 all Jews

00:47:40.280 that the

00:47:40.560 highest

00:47:40.980 motivation

00:47:41.900 as children

00:47:42.640 is to

00:47:43.280 grow up

00:47:43.760 and kill

00:47:44.560 Jews

00:47:45.020 and steal

00:47:45.800 their land

00:47:46.360 that's what

00:47:47.420 they're taught

00:47:47.880 that's what

00:47:48.280 the British

00:47:48.580 government

00:47:48.900 funds

00:47:49.480 that's what

00:47:50.000 the American

00:47:50.440 administrations

00:47:51.200 have funded

00:47:51.740 and so

00:47:55.200 they are

00:47:56.280 led in

00:47:56.840 their

00:47:57.000 moderate

00:47:57.380 Palestinian

00:47:58.480 authority

00:47:58.940 by a

00:47:59.740 man

00:48:00.020 Mahmoud

00:48:00.560 Abbas

00:48:00.900 who says

00:48:01.880 Hajime

00:48:02.200 Nahal

00:48:02.520 Hussaini

00:48:03.060 great hero

00:48:03.920 great hero

00:48:04.680 of the

00:48:04.860 Palestinian

00:48:05.220 people

00:48:05.720 he is my

00:48:07.040 role model

00:48:07.800 so that's

00:48:08.880 what we're

00:48:09.100 dealing with

00:48:09.700 we're dealing

00:48:10.220 with people

00:48:10.840 who are

00:48:12.000 Islamo-Nazis

00:48:13.040 and the

00:48:14.000 West

00:48:14.300 as they

00:48:15.620 did

00:48:15.920 in the

00:48:16.820 1930s

00:48:17.780 says

00:48:18.140 we should

00:48:19.500 negotiate

00:48:20.660 with them

00:48:21.900 we should

00:48:23.420 you know

00:48:23.980 find common

00:48:25.040 cause

00:48:26.020 they have

00:48:27.700 a point

00:48:28.300 same thing

00:48:30.100 it's

00:48:32.140 very frightening

00:48:33.060 and

00:48:35.380 the Jewish

00:48:35.940 people

00:48:36.340 you know

00:48:37.100 Jewish community

00:48:37.740 here

00:48:38.200 America

00:48:39.440 and in

00:48:40.960 Israel

00:48:41.220 they're

00:48:42.020 fighting an

00:48:42.540 actual war

00:48:43.320 of desperate

00:48:43.920 desperate war

00:48:44.700 but

00:48:45.560 the Jewish

00:48:47.020 people

00:48:47.260 is having

00:48:47.520 to grapple

00:48:47.920 with this

00:48:48.240 now

00:48:48.540 that you

00:48:49.980 know

00:48:50.180 those of

00:48:50.980 us in

00:48:51.440 the Jewish

00:48:51.740 community

00:48:52.200 who thought

00:48:53.800 that with

00:48:54.680 the discovery

00:48:56.320 of Auschwitz

00:48:57.460 anti-Semitism

00:48:59.340 would be a

00:49:00.800 thing of the

00:49:01.140 past

00:49:01.540 and never

00:49:03.100 again

00:49:03.560 and the

00:49:05.060 West had

00:49:05.560 learned

00:49:06.100 what evil

00:49:07.340 was

00:49:07.700 it had

00:49:07.960 looked it

00:49:08.260 in the

00:49:08.520 face

00:49:08.760 and it

00:49:09.020 actually

00:49:09.400 had defeated

00:49:09.940 it

00:49:10.240 and we

00:49:12.140 would be

00:49:12.420 safe

00:49:12.760 now we

00:49:13.700 know

00:49:13.940 now we

00:49:14.800 know

00:49:15.060 it's the

00:49:16.140 same

00:49:16.340 thing

00:49:16.660 it's the

00:49:17.720 same

00:49:17.880 thing

00:49:18.040 happening

00:49:18.340 again

00:49:18.660 and only

00:49:19.320 the Jewish

00:49:19.720 people

00:49:20.140 can look

00:49:20.880 after

00:49:21.100 itself

00:49:21.600 Melanie

00:49:22.840 when you

00:49:25.000 talk about

00:49:27.400 this situation

00:49:28.200 I think

00:49:30.340 about

00:49:30.700 the student

00:49:31.820 who wears

00:49:33.340 the Shea

00:49:34.100 Guevara

00:49:34.500 t-shirt

00:49:35.000 and as

00:49:36.260 somebody

00:49:36.600 from

00:49:37.160 a Latin

00:49:38.520 American

00:49:38.940 background

00:49:39.380 I know

00:49:40.000 more about

00:49:40.800 Shea

00:49:41.040 than most

00:49:41.480 people

00:49:41.840 and

00:49:43.520 they

00:49:44.180 would not

00:49:45.760 want to

00:49:46.160 admit

00:49:46.400 that

00:49:46.760 he

00:49:47.220 was

00:49:47.620 an

00:49:47.880 authoritarian

00:49:48.280 he

00:49:49.400 executed

00:49:50.080 not

00:49:51.040 only

00:49:51.540 people

00:49:52.940 who

00:49:53.160 opposed

00:49:53.520 him

00:49:53.700 politically

00:49:54.120 people

00:49:54.480 who

00:49:54.620 challenged

00:49:54.940 his

00:49:55.140 authority

00:49:55.640 he

00:49:56.560 was

00:49:56.820 also

00:49:57.360 a

00:49:57.820 rabid

00:49:58.360 homophobe

00:49:59.020 who

00:49:59.380 killed

00:50:00.040 gay

00:50:00.660 men

00:50:00.920 because

00:50:01.500 he

00:50:01.740 despised

00:50:02.280 and loathed

00:50:02.760 them

00:50:02.980 yet

00:50:04.120 they

00:50:04.260 still

00:50:04.520 wear

00:50:04.700 the

00:50:04.860 t-shirt

00:50:05.240 because

00:50:05.780 it

00:50:05.980 looks

00:50:06.360 cool

00:50:06.880 do you

00:50:07.500 think

00:50:07.740 that's

00:50:08.260 it

00:50:08.420 what

00:50:08.940 we're

00:50:09.120 talking

00:50:09.440 about

00:50:09.680 as

00:50:09.860 well

00:50:10.060 with

00:50:10.240 this

00:50:10.460 is

00:50:10.720 propaganda

00:50:11.400 the

00:50:12.140 other

00:50:12.300 side

00:50:12.580 simply

00:50:12.940 have

00:50:13.120 better

00:50:13.460 slogans

00:50:14.600 messages

00:50:15.080 it's

00:50:15.760 cooler

00:50:16.340 to be

00:50:16.720 Palestinian

00:50:17.540 than it

00:50:17.900 pro

00:50:18.140 Palestinian

00:50:18.620 than it

00:50:19.220 is

00:50:19.360 to be

00:50:19.580 pro

00:50:19.800 Israel

00:50:20.060 is

00:50:20.460 that

00:50:20.700 not

00:50:20.920 part

00:50:21.380 of

00:50:21.500 it

00:50:21.600 as

00:50:21.740 well

00:50:21.900 what

00:50:22.040 we're

00:50:22.180 talking

00:50:22.460 about

00:50:22.640 it

00:50:22.740 it's

00:50:22.900 certainly

00:50:23.180 part

00:50:23.560 of

00:50:23.660 it

00:50:23.780 people

00:50:24.060 unthinkingly

00:50:24.880 wear

00:50:25.440 the t-shirt

00:50:26.000 they wear

00:50:26.360 the kefir

00:50:26.860 without

00:50:27.720 realising

00:50:28.300 what it

00:50:28.600 is

00:50:28.720 that's

00:50:28.920 all

00:50:29.080 true

00:50:29.380 that's

00:50:29.760 absolutely

00:50:30.080 right

00:50:30.400 people

00:50:30.640 go

00:50:30.840 along

00:50:31.060 unthinkingly

00:50:31.620 with

00:50:31.840 fashion

00:50:32.180 for

00:50:32.800 all

00:50:32.980 kinds

00:50:33.300 of

00:50:33.480 venal

00:50:33.920 quite

00:50:34.640 innocent

00:50:35.020 reasons

00:50:35.460 but

00:50:35.680 they

00:50:35.960 end

00:50:36.160 up

00:50:36.400 supporting

00:50:36.900 stuff

00:50:37.360 which

00:50:37.520 is

00:50:37.640 appalling

00:50:38.200 fun

00:50:38.420 and

00:50:38.700 they

00:50:38.820 don't

00:50:38.980 know

00:50:39.140 how

00:50:39.320 appalling

00:50:39.540 it

00:50:39.740 is

00:50:39.960 that

00:50:40.400 is

00:50:40.540 true

00:50:40.760 but

00:50:40.920 there's

00:50:41.100 something

00:50:41.280 else

00:50:41.580 here

00:50:41.840 over

00:50:45.180 many

00:50:45.440 years

00:50:46.040 one

00:50:46.820 has

00:50:46.960 observed

00:50:47.540 with

00:50:47.740 alarm

00:50:48.180 again

00:50:50.500 it's

00:50:50.680 fashion

00:50:51.120 but

00:50:51.760 nevertheless

00:50:52.060 it's

00:50:52.340 an

00:50:52.460 important

00:50:52.820 fashion

00:50:53.280 intellectual

00:50:53.740 fashion

00:50:54.320 among

00:50:55.340 young

00:50:55.920 people

00:50:56.400 at

00:50:56.960 universities

00:50:57.540 and

00:50:58.920 they're

00:50:59.300 kind

00:50:59.640 of

00:50:59.840 drawn

00:51:00.440 to

00:51:00.880 fascism

00:51:01.420 when

00:51:02.980 faced

00:51:03.380 with

00:51:03.680 not

00:51:03.960 fascism

00:51:04.440 let's

00:51:04.620 put

00:51:04.740 fashion

00:51:05.040 to

00:51:05.180 one

00:51:05.360 side

00:51:05.540 for

00:51:05.660 a

00:51:05.740 minute

00:51:05.900 they're

00:51:07.580 drawn

00:51:07.760 to

00:51:07.960 Nietzsche

00:51:08.320 for

00:51:09.480 the

00:51:09.600 wrong

00:51:09.740 reasons

00:51:10.100 they

00:51:10.260 don't

00:51:10.500 understand

00:51:10.940 that

00:51:11.140 Nietzsche

00:51:11.480 was

00:51:11.960 a

00:51:14.780 prophet

00:51:15.140 of what

00:51:15.420 we're

00:51:15.560 living

00:51:15.720 through

00:51:16.080 he

00:51:16.540 saw

00:51:17.040 the

00:51:17.920 terrible

00:51:18.340 consequences

00:51:19.780 of the

00:51:20.660 denial

00:51:21.020 of

00:51:21.320 religious

00:51:21.640 faith

00:51:22.040 people

00:51:22.640 take it

00:51:23.620 the other

00:51:23.860 way

00:51:24.020 around

00:51:24.320 and

00:51:24.500 think

00:51:24.720 that

00:51:24.880 he

00:51:25.000 was

00:51:25.220 his

00:51:26.440 whole

00:51:27.040 view

00:51:28.460 view

00:51:29.120 of

00:51:29.660 power

00:51:31.020 is what

00:51:31.860 they like

00:51:32.240 they're

00:51:32.520 drawn

00:51:32.900 to it

00:51:33.260 they're

00:51:33.440 drawn

00:51:33.740 to

00:51:33.960 this

00:51:34.160 view

00:51:34.340 of

00:51:34.480 power

00:51:34.780 and

00:51:35.720 they're

00:51:36.420 drawn

00:51:36.660 to

00:51:36.840 communism

00:51:37.320 you know

00:51:38.160 we have

00:51:38.540 opinion

00:51:39.140 polling

00:51:39.500 over many

00:51:40.200 years

00:51:40.660 asking

00:51:41.360 young

00:51:41.620 people

00:51:42.020 well

00:51:42.280 you know

00:51:42.540 do you

00:51:43.020 think

00:51:43.840 communism

00:51:44.320 is a

00:51:45.000 bad

00:51:45.460 thing

00:51:45.780 and they

00:51:47.380 say

00:51:47.540 no

00:51:47.820 no

00:51:48.940 or

00:51:50.380 do you

00:51:50.760 think

00:51:51.020 that

00:51:51.360 I don't

00:51:52.680 know

00:51:53.000 a strong

00:51:54.580 leader

00:51:54.900 is a bad

00:51:55.980 thing

00:51:56.280 no

00:51:56.660 no

00:51:57.020 I

00:51:57.140 like

00:51:57.580 a strong

00:51:57.860 leader

00:51:58.100 I mean

00:51:58.880 they're

00:51:59.240 drawn

00:51:59.560 to

00:51:59.780 power

00:52:00.200 there is

00:52:01.200 something

00:52:01.520 in the

00:52:02.140 intellectual

00:52:02.720 zeitgeist

00:52:03.720 especially

00:52:04.840 at university

00:52:05.460 level

00:52:05.880 which

00:52:07.440 has

00:52:07.780 created

00:52:10.520 a kind

00:52:11.500 of

00:52:11.600 acceptance

00:52:12.440 of what

00:52:13.360 I think

00:52:13.920 should be

00:52:15.000 absolutely

00:52:15.760 fought against

00:52:16.700 as a threat

00:52:17.480 to everything

00:52:18.080 we should

00:52:18.500 be holding

00:52:18.900 dear

00:52:19.280 freedom

00:52:20.160 individual

00:52:22.580 flourishing

00:52:23.200 and they

00:52:24.400 don't see

00:52:24.800 it

00:52:25.000 they're

00:52:25.540 drawn

00:52:25.980 to the

00:52:26.500 power

00:52:26.960 that

00:52:27.480 constrains

00:52:28.120 all those

00:52:28.560 things

00:52:28.780 so

00:52:29.020 you know

00:52:29.920 you talk

00:52:30.220 about

00:52:30.440 the fashion

00:52:31.240 sure

00:52:31.840 t-shirts

00:52:34.720 the kefir

00:52:35.620 yes

00:52:36.460 but

00:52:37.200 and you

00:52:39.320 talk about

00:52:39.620 ignorance

00:52:40.040 that is also

00:52:40.700 absolutely

00:52:41.120 correct

00:52:41.680 but

00:52:44.360 it's not

00:52:45.860 simply that

00:52:46.400 there's a

00:52:46.680 kind of

00:52:47.180 blank

00:52:48.660 slate

00:52:49.300 into which

00:52:51.560 gets

00:52:51.840 projected

00:52:52.320 fashion

00:52:52.840 which is

00:52:53.200 unthinking

00:52:53.660 onto that

00:52:55.460 blank slate

00:52:56.320 that original

00:52:56.820 blank slate

00:52:57.480 has come

00:52:58.000 actual

00:52:58.940 idea

00:53:00.120 ideologies

00:53:00.800 taught it

00:53:02.200 you know

00:53:02.640 from one of

00:53:03.100 most prestigious

00:53:03.660 institutions

00:53:04.320 which have

00:53:06.060 turned the

00:53:06.600 brain

00:53:07.000 turned the

00:53:07.540 mind

00:53:07.920 of the

00:53:09.060 western

00:53:09.320 young

00:53:09.800 in a

00:53:10.680 terrible

00:53:11.280 direction

00:53:11.840 Melanie

00:53:13.480 can I ask

00:53:14.420 you a

00:53:14.920 very difficult

00:53:15.580 question

00:53:16.000 and I

00:53:16.300 hope that

00:53:16.660 my

00:53:17.020 remote

00:53:18.080 Jewish

00:53:18.420 ancestry

00:53:18.820 will

00:53:19.120 protect

00:53:19.500 me

00:53:19.700 from

00:53:19.920 accusations

00:53:20.440 of

00:53:20.820 nefarious

00:53:21.340 intent

00:53:21.660 but

00:53:21.900 you

00:53:22.380 mentioned

00:53:22.660 this

00:53:22.920 idea

00:53:23.320 of

00:53:23.520 Jewish

00:53:23.780 power

00:53:24.200 and

00:53:25.300 that

00:53:25.960 people

00:53:26.340 have

00:53:26.640 hated

00:53:26.940 the

00:53:27.200 Jews

00:53:27.560 very often

00:53:28.200 because

00:53:28.480 they've

00:53:28.720 accused

00:53:29.120 them

00:53:29.380 of

00:53:29.640 having a

00:53:31.140 disproportionate

00:53:31.940 amount

00:53:32.180 of wealth

00:53:32.620 or power

00:53:33.080 and Thomas

00:53:34.080 Sol who's a

00:53:34.820 great hero of

00:53:35.380 mine writes

00:53:35.740 about the fact

00:53:36.280 that many

00:53:36.920 middlemen

00:53:37.440 minorities

00:53:38.000 as he calls

00:53:38.680 them

00:53:38.880 suffer the

00:53:40.600 same fate

00:53:41.020 in many ways

00:53:41.620 the Jews

00:53:42.180 are not even

00:53:42.640 the biggest

00:53:43.280 Jews in the

00:53:43.940 world

00:53:44.140 actually the

00:53:44.740 foreign born

00:53:45.280 Chinese are

00:53:46.100 in Asia

00:53:47.060 persecuted

00:53:47.660 just in the

00:53:48.260 same way

00:53:48.700 very often

00:53:49.560 but the

00:53:52.160 question that

00:53:52.600 I've never

00:53:53.000 got an

00:53:53.380 answer to

00:53:53.940 and people

00:53:54.980 do get

00:53:55.400 uncomfortable

00:53:55.860 when you

00:53:56.380 ask it

00:53:56.780 is

00:53:56.920 why are

00:53:58.240 Jews

00:53:58.500 overrepresented

00:53:59.320 in so many

00:53:59.880 things

00:54:00.240 look at

00:54:01.520 in the

00:54:01.940 United States

00:54:02.520 I don't

00:54:02.980 know if

00:54:03.220 this is

00:54:03.580 the right

00:54:04.020 statistic

00:54:04.420 but it's

00:54:04.860 something

00:54:05.140 like this

00:54:05.840 0.2%

00:54:07.160 of the

00:54:07.460 population

00:54:07.940 17%

00:54:08.820 of

00:54:09.020 billionaires

00:54:09.580 Jews

00:54:10.980 are

00:54:11.300 very well

00:54:12.120 represented

00:54:12.680 in certain

00:54:13.320 professions

00:54:13.900 media

00:54:14.320 being one

00:54:15.000 why is

00:54:16.600 that

00:54:16.820 and Jews

00:54:17.700 are

00:54:18.020 wildly

00:54:18.800 overrepresented

00:54:19.720 in the

00:54:20.440 Nobel Peace

00:54:20.820 Prize

00:54:21.220 Nobel Prize

00:54:22.880 winners

00:54:23.220 Nobel Prize

00:54:23.760 winners

00:54:24.000 in terms

00:54:24.840 of

00:54:25.000 scientific

00:54:25.540 technological

00:54:28.360 discoveries

00:54:29.480 and

00:54:29.860 pioneering

00:54:30.740 why is

00:54:31.740 it

00:54:32.020 well

00:54:36.300 I think

00:54:38.940 it goes

00:54:40.220 back

00:54:40.560 to the

00:54:41.260 particulars

00:54:41.940 of

00:54:42.440 Jewish

00:54:44.100 culture

00:54:44.680 which

00:54:45.780 lend

00:54:46.360 themselves

00:54:46.940 to

00:54:47.700 the

00:54:49.780 extremely

00:54:53.060 healthy

00:54:53.560 development

00:54:54.020 of

00:54:54.480 an

00:54:54.820 individual

00:54:55.480 and his

00:54:56.100 or her

00:54:56.880 flourishing

00:54:57.440 so that they

00:54:58.640 can reach

00:54:59.120 their full

00:54:59.520 potential

00:55:00.020 that's the

00:55:01.160 first thing

00:55:01.600 the second

00:55:01.920 thing is

00:55:02.220 that Jewish

00:55:02.640 ethics

00:55:03.040 teach you

00:55:03.780 to be

00:55:04.940 resilient

00:55:05.540 and to

00:55:07.820 never

00:55:09.780 ever

00:55:10.220 ever

00:55:10.680 to be

00:55:11.600 a victim

00:55:11.960 but always

00:55:13.800 to make

00:55:14.360 an advantage

00:55:15.300 out of

00:55:15.920 make

00:55:16.740 an

00:55:16.860 opportunity

00:55:17.380 out of

00:55:17.980 disadvantage

00:55:18.480 and this

00:55:19.540 also has

00:55:20.000 been a

00:55:20.240 very powerful

00:55:20.880 part of

00:55:21.520 it

00:55:21.700 but also

00:55:22.740 Jewish

00:55:24.060 culture

00:55:24.460 itself

00:55:25.040 and I'm

00:55:26.020 talking really

00:55:26.460 about you

00:55:26.880 know going

00:55:27.200 back into

00:55:28.140 Talmudic

00:55:29.540 culture

00:55:30.440 it lends

00:55:31.680 itself to

00:55:32.240 public

00:55:32.920 engagement

00:55:34.540 it lends

00:55:36.880 itself

00:55:37.340 first of

00:55:38.000 all to

00:55:38.860 intellectual

00:55:40.420 brilliance

00:55:41.060 Talmudic

00:55:42.100 scholarship

00:55:42.480 is a

00:55:44.220 foundational

00:55:44.780 element

00:55:45.800 in

00:55:46.380 intellectual

00:55:47.000 brilliance

00:55:47.520 and the

00:55:47.860 development

00:55:48.140 of logic

00:55:48.840 upon which

00:55:49.620 the West

00:55:50.080 has

00:55:50.300 defended

00:55:50.720 which it

00:55:51.400 doesn't

00:55:51.620 realise

00:55:52.100 but it's

00:55:53.400 a way of

00:55:54.160 ordering

00:55:55.340 the brain

00:55:55.980 you may

00:55:57.800 think this

00:55:58.080 is bizarre

00:55:58.680 people would

00:55:59.360 think it's

00:55:59.700 bizarre

00:55:59.960 I mean the

00:56:00.240 Talmud

00:56:00.560 is like

00:56:00.880 who cares

00:56:01.780 an arcane

00:56:03.020 religious

00:56:03.420 book that

00:56:04.000 virtually

00:56:04.980 nobody knows

00:56:05.820 about

00:56:06.160 in fact

00:56:06.700 most Jews

00:56:07.580 don't know

00:56:08.000 about it

00:56:08.540 or don't

00:56:09.260 know it

00:56:09.700 it's only

00:56:10.620 studied by

00:56:11.340 people with

00:56:12.080 long beards

00:56:12.640 that kind

00:56:13.260 of thing

00:56:13.620 but the

00:56:14.440 fact is

00:56:14.840 it's

00:56:16.080 integral to

00:56:17.280 Jewish

00:56:17.580 culture

00:56:18.040 and the

00:56:18.800 way that

00:56:19.120 Jews

00:56:19.360 think

00:56:19.800 and

00:56:21.220 it

00:56:22.720 basically

00:56:24.100 has taught

00:56:24.740 Jews how

00:56:25.360 to think

00:56:25.940 in the

00:56:26.560 most

00:56:26.980 logically

00:56:28.240 productive

00:56:28.920 way

00:56:30.080 and to

00:56:31.140 present

00:56:31.680 themselves

00:56:32.340 in that

00:56:33.180 way

00:56:33.540 so it

00:56:34.580 lends

00:56:34.900 itself

00:56:35.360 especially

00:56:36.140 to for

00:56:36.620 example

00:56:36.920 law

00:56:37.480 the Talmud

00:56:38.940 is a book

00:56:39.420 of law

00:56:39.820 it's a book

00:56:40.160 of Jewish

00:56:40.540 law

00:56:40.900 and it

00:56:41.980 teaches you

00:56:42.480 how to

00:56:42.800 think like

00:56:43.200 a lawyer

00:56:43.600 if you

00:56:44.880 look at

00:56:45.220 how lawyers

00:56:45.820 think

00:56:46.260 and you

00:56:46.880 look at

00:56:47.120 the Talmud

00:56:47.620 and its

00:56:47.960 arguments

00:56:48.340 you think

00:56:49.520 oh

00:56:50.180 that's what

00:56:51.480 they were

00:56:51.680 doing

00:56:51.940 and it's

00:56:53.000 where it

00:56:53.280 comes

00:56:53.540 from

00:56:53.860 it's a

00:56:54.360 way of

00:56:54.680 thinking

00:56:55.260 logically

00:56:56.100 from first

00:56:56.880 premises

00:56:57.340 logical

00:56:58.360 deduction

00:56:58.920 many of

00:57:01.800 the rules

00:57:02.280 of thinking

00:57:02.960 that we

00:57:03.420 kind of

00:57:03.840 don't even

00:57:04.180 know about

00:57:04.780 but we

00:57:05.220 kind of

00:57:05.480 use them

00:57:06.220 are there

00:57:06.980 that's where

00:57:08.040 it came

00:57:08.380 from

00:57:08.740 so it's

00:57:09.740 not really

00:57:10.080 a surprise

00:57:10.680 that those

00:57:11.120 people

00:57:11.600 can

00:57:13.480 think

00:57:14.700 disproportionately

00:57:15.440 well

00:57:16.060 and present

00:57:17.400 themselves in

00:57:17.980 the public

00:57:18.480 disproportionately

00:57:19.320 well

00:57:19.940 and take

00:57:21.240 a position

00:57:22.200 in public

00:57:23.080 life

00:57:23.580 disproportionately

00:57:24.620 because

00:57:25.300 they are

00:57:26.660 their culture

00:57:27.700 is one

00:57:28.360 that says

00:57:28.960 we have

00:57:30.020 to embody

00:57:31.780 in our

00:57:32.420 own lives

00:57:33.320 this is

00:57:34.400 a

00:57:34.680 council

00:57:35.400 of

00:57:35.580 perfection

00:57:36.020 not adhered

00:57:37.700 to by

00:57:38.040 many Jews

00:57:38.620 but anyway

00:57:39.040 we have

00:57:39.420 to embody

00:57:39.860 in our

00:57:40.320 own lives

00:57:41.020 the highest

00:57:41.860 possible

00:57:42.280 standards

00:57:42.860 of ethics

00:57:43.440 of conscience

00:57:44.060 looking after

00:57:45.160 other people

00:57:45.860 doing good

00:57:47.080 for other

00:57:47.720 people

00:57:48.160 and all

00:57:49.780 these things

00:57:50.340 have come

00:57:50.700 together

00:57:51.180 to me

00:57:52.320 to make

00:57:52.760 a disproportionate

00:57:53.920 impact

00:57:54.980 in public

00:57:56.300 life

00:57:56.740 in the

00:57:57.680 world

00:57:58.020 and

00:58:00.120 that's a

00:58:01.680 rather

00:58:01.840 inadequate

00:58:02.280 explanation

00:58:02.900 because I'm

00:58:03.260 sure there are

00:58:03.620 other factors

00:58:04.220 but that goes

00:58:04.740 some way

00:58:05.140 towards it

00:58:05.540 well

00:58:05.700 I was going

00:58:06.560 to ask you

00:58:06.900 do you think

00:58:07.180 genetics is part

00:58:08.100 of it

00:58:08.360 oh well

00:58:09.060 I

00:58:09.180 there are

00:58:10.180 some suggestions

00:58:11.020 that Ashkenazi

00:58:11.840 Jews for example

00:58:12.760 have a

00:58:13.280 disproportionately

00:58:13.980 high IQ

00:58:14.760 on average

00:58:15.280 I mean

00:58:15.820 I don't

00:58:16.540 imagine

00:58:16.980 you can be

00:58:17.580 a noble

00:58:18.060 prize winning

00:58:19.100 scientist

00:58:19.640 just by

00:58:20.320 reading the

00:58:21.160 Talmud

00:58:21.620 do you see

00:58:22.560 what I'm

00:58:22.740 saying

00:58:22.960 genetics is

00:58:23.600 really above

00:58:24.080 my pay grade

00:58:24.760 I really

00:58:26.560 don't know

00:58:27.560 enough

00:58:27.940 I mean

00:58:28.200 I read

00:58:28.840 and I'm

00:58:29.540 skeptical

00:58:29.960 how much

00:58:30.980 of it

00:58:31.180 is

00:58:31.380 environment

00:58:31.820 and how

00:58:32.220 much

00:58:32.400 of it

00:58:32.620 is

00:58:32.920 genetically

00:58:33.800 passed

00:58:34.240 down

00:58:34.520 I wouldn't

00:58:35.060 like to

00:58:35.440 say

00:58:35.720 and also

00:58:37.840 you know

00:58:39.220 you talk

00:58:42.060 about the

00:58:42.280 Ashkenazi

00:58:42.800 Jews

00:58:43.260 I mean

00:58:43.620 you know

00:58:44.120 the Ashkenazi

00:58:44.880 Jews are

00:58:45.220 basically

00:58:45.480 Johnny-come

00:58:46.000 Latelys

00:58:46.540 the Jews

00:58:48.380 that sort

00:58:48.880 of invented

00:58:49.300 all this

00:58:49.800 were Sephardim

00:58:50.480 they were

00:58:51.320 from the

00:58:52.920 eastern lands

00:58:53.620 they were

00:58:53.980 from the

00:58:54.800 eastern

00:58:55.100 they came

00:58:55.580 through Spain

00:58:56.720 and southern

00:58:57.700 France

00:58:58.260 and they

00:59:00.680 were the

00:59:00.860 people who

00:59:01.320 first came

00:59:02.040 to England

00:59:04.300 but this

00:59:05.020 is kind

00:59:05.500 of my

00:59:05.720 point

00:59:06.000 about

00:59:06.340 the

00:59:06.620 genetic

00:59:06.940 dimension

00:59:07.460 because I

00:59:08.060 don't know

00:59:08.260 if this

00:59:08.480 is true

00:59:08.780 you might

00:59:09.160 correct me

00:59:09.640 but I

00:59:09.860 have an

00:59:10.100 Israeli

00:59:10.460 Jewish

00:59:11.040 friend

00:59:11.340 actually

00:59:11.560 who says

00:59:12.520 look at

00:59:13.240 Israel

00:59:13.580 Israel

00:59:14.120 you know

00:59:14.760 people talk

00:59:15.240 about how

00:59:15.580 the Jews

00:59:16.120 are like

00:59:16.480 disproportionately

00:59:17.180 represented

00:59:17.780 it's true

00:59:18.520 in Israel

00:59:18.980 as well

00:59:19.420 that basically

00:59:20.340 Ashkenazis

00:59:20.960 run everything

00:59:21.600 is that

00:59:22.280 true

00:59:22.580 it's true

00:59:24.020 at the

00:59:24.680 moment

00:59:25.020 but it's

00:59:25.500 changing

00:59:25.960 it's

00:59:27.040 changing

00:59:27.380 because of

00:59:27.820 the

00:59:27.920 demographics

00:59:28.380 because the

00:59:30.300 Sephardim

00:59:30.980 the Jews

00:59:31.880 from eastern

00:59:32.440 lands

00:59:32.920 that's

00:59:34.720 another fact

00:59:35.160 that people

00:59:35.460 don't realize

00:59:36.360 that the

00:59:37.720 majority

00:59:38.120 of Jews

00:59:39.020 in Israel

00:59:41.420 are brown

00:59:42.140 skinned

00:59:42.700 not much

00:59:44.420 majority

00:59:44.900 but it is a

00:59:45.320 majority

00:59:45.680 because they

00:59:46.520 come from

00:59:47.020 Arab lands

00:59:47.780 where they

00:59:48.200 were forcibly

00:59:49.460 expelled and

00:59:50.780 ethnically cleansed

00:59:52.000 after the

00:59:52.620 state of Israel

00:59:53.160 was created

00:59:54.140 in 1948

00:59:55.020 and they

00:59:57.920 are

00:59:58.480 becoming much

01:00:00.240 more politically

01:00:00.740 powerful all

01:00:01.900 the time

01:00:02.420 and more

01:00:02.960 demographically

01:00:03.660 numerous

01:00:04.220 they're having

01:00:04.660 relatively more

01:00:06.060 children

01:00:06.420 and

01:00:08.080 consequently

01:00:09.200 their political

01:00:10.200 power will

01:00:10.720 grow

01:00:11.020 and is

01:00:11.980 growing already

01:00:12.600 so

01:00:14.000 you talk about

01:00:15.100 the Ashkenazim

01:00:16.160 dominating

01:00:17.700 that has been

01:00:19.000 true

01:00:19.440 and it was

01:00:20.740 certainly true

01:00:21.340 from the

01:00:22.340 founding fathers

01:00:23.720 the political

01:00:24.660 founding fathers

01:00:25.360 of Israel

01:00:25.800 were Ashkenazim

01:00:26.880 but

01:00:28.140 I wouldn't

01:00:31.460 like to

01:00:31.780 generalise

01:00:32.480 about whether

01:00:33.320 this is

01:00:33.680 because of

01:00:34.000 an intrinsic

01:00:34.680 level of

01:00:37.460 ability

01:00:37.880 to me

01:00:39.600 I've always

01:00:40.840 thought

01:00:41.100 environment

01:00:41.660 counts for

01:00:42.440 an enormous

01:00:42.840 amount

01:00:43.200 and I

01:00:43.680 wouldn't

01:00:43.860 like to

01:00:44.100 quantify it

01:00:44.680 Melanie

01:00:45.680 what a

01:00:46.380 pleasure

01:00:46.660 it has

01:00:47.120 been

01:00:47.320 having

01:00:47.560 you

01:00:47.720 on

01:00:47.860 the

01:00:48.020 show

01:00:48.300 we

01:00:48.580 could

01:00:48.740 have

01:00:48.900 carried

01:00:49.260 on

01:00:49.540 this

01:00:49.780 conversation

01:00:50.280 for another

01:00:50.680 hour

01:00:50.920 but we

01:00:51.240 are going

01:00:51.520 to carry

01:00:51.840 on

01:00:52.120 our supporters

01:00:53.420 get to ask

01:00:54.140 their questions

01:00:54.920 to you

01:00:55.280 but before we

01:00:56.080 do all that

01:00:56.620 final question

01:00:57.380 is always the

01:00:57.900 same

01:00:58.100 what's the one

01:00:58.900 thing we're not

01:00:59.520 talking about

01:01:00.160 as a society

01:01:01.060 that we really

01:01:01.920 should be

01:01:02.380 before Melanie

01:01:04.660 answers the

01:01:05.300 final question

01:01:05.940 at the end

01:01:06.640 of the

01:01:06.880 interview

01:01:07.160 make sure

01:01:07.640 you click

01:01:08.060 the link

01:01:08.400 in the

01:01:08.780 description

01:01:09.160 to see

01:01:09.940 this

01:01:10.280 how likely

01:01:11.880 is it

01:01:12.400 that there

01:01:13.200 will be

01:01:13.520 a peaceful

01:01:14.220 relationship

01:01:15.600 between Israel

01:01:16.420 and Saudi

01:01:16.900 Arabia

01:01:17.240 going forward

01:01:17.920 do you

01:01:19.220 think

01:01:19.500 there's

01:01:20.160 any

01:01:20.380 possibility

01:01:20.860 of a

01:01:21.160 two-state

01:01:21.480 solution

01:01:21.880 now

01:01:22.200 at this

01:01:22.740 point

01:01:23.000 oh

01:01:23.480 but hold

01:01:24.480 on

01:01:24.620 you've

01:01:24.880 left out

01:01:25.400 you've

01:01:25.740 left out

01:01:26.200 the part

01:01:26.700 where

01:01:27.120 there are

01:01:27.780 people

01:01:28.180 who call

01:01:29.400 themselves

01:01:29.800 Palestinian

01:01:30.420 who are

01:01:30.900 living in

01:01:31.420 suboptimal

01:01:32.040 conditions

01:01:32.560 okay

01:01:32.760 fine

01:01:33.020 so

01:01:33.240 sorry

01:01:33.540 yes

01:01:33.960 okay

01:01:34.680 what we're

01:01:38.040 not talking

01:01:38.580 about

01:01:39.080 is

01:01:40.820 that

01:01:41.580 we're

01:01:45.040 living

01:01:45.240 through

01:01:45.640 an inflection

01:01:46.480 point

01:01:46.920 for the

01:01:47.300 west

01:01:47.620 the west

01:01:48.120 is on

01:01:48.440 a

01:01:48.660 hinge

01:01:50.720 do I mean

01:01:51.720 a hinge

01:01:52.060 or a pivot

01:01:52.500 will it

01:01:55.680 live

01:01:55.980 or will it

01:01:56.460 die

01:01:56.800 the west

01:01:57.540 and

01:01:59.020 before

01:02:00.100 October 7

01:02:00.740 I would

01:02:01.060 say

01:02:01.180 the jury

01:02:01.520 was out

01:02:02.020 and now

01:02:03.500 I would

01:02:03.840 say

01:02:04.300 it is

01:02:05.800 if it

01:02:07.100 continues

01:02:07.540 as it's

01:02:07.900 continuing

01:02:08.360 the west

01:02:09.880 is on

01:02:10.440 its way

01:02:10.860 out

01:02:11.300 but it

01:02:12.800 still has

01:02:13.260 a chance

01:02:13.900 to pull

01:02:14.720 itself

01:02:15.100 back from

01:02:15.680 the brink

01:02:16.080 this is

01:02:17.380 what nobody

01:02:17.980 is talking

01:02:18.420 about

01:02:18.840 and

01:02:20.640 in my

01:02:21.800 view

01:02:22.080 these things

01:02:22.660 are all

01:02:23.000 part of

01:02:23.340 the same

01:02:23.660 story

01:02:24.140 October 7

01:02:25.360 was the

01:02:25.840 inflection

01:02:26.380 point for

01:02:26.880 the west

01:02:27.320 where the

01:02:28.780 west was

01:02:29.160 faced with

01:02:29.540 this choice

01:02:30.080 as I said

01:02:30.640 right at the

01:02:31.040 beginning

01:02:31.300 between

01:02:32.040 civilization

01:02:32.700 and barbarism

01:02:33.440 is not

01:02:33.840 chosen

01:02:34.140 civilization

01:02:34.800 it doesn't

01:02:35.700 understand

01:02:36.280 that the

01:02:37.580 west is

01:02:38.260 civilization

01:02:38.980 and it

01:02:40.480 doesn't

01:02:40.720 understand

01:02:41.220 that the

01:02:41.600 root of

01:02:41.980 that

01:02:42.280 is the

01:02:43.220 people

01:02:43.480 that it's

01:02:44.180 attacking the

01:02:44.880 whole time

01:02:45.440 i.e. the

01:02:45.980 Jewish people

01:02:46.560 and if

01:02:49.280 i may

01:02:49.760 allow myself

01:02:52.140 you will

01:02:52.460 indulge me

01:02:53.080 with one

01:02:53.420 small

01:02:53.920 advertisement

01:02:54.680 i've actually

01:02:55.200 written a

01:02:55.580 book about

01:02:55.940 this

01:02:56.360 which will

01:02:57.360 emerge

01:02:57.800 around the

01:02:58.360 turn of

01:02:58.640 the year

01:02:58.940 the end

01:02:59.700 of the

01:02:59.900 year

01:03:00.120 but i

01:03:01.280 think this

01:03:01.680 is the

01:03:01.940 great

01:03:02.280 question

01:03:02.760 that is

01:03:03.260 not being

01:03:03.740 asked

01:03:04.180 that it

01:03:04.860 must be

01:03:05.440 asked

01:03:05.800 that it's

01:03:06.140 absolutely

01:03:06.520 vital and

01:03:07.300 urgent

01:03:07.680 that it's

01:03:08.120 asked

01:03:08.520 and it's

01:03:10.200 not surprising

01:03:10.840 it's not

01:03:11.240 being asked

01:03:11.760 because

01:03:12.180 people don't

01:03:13.200 even understand

01:03:14.100 it is a

01:03:14.640 question

01:03:14.960 to be

01:03:15.640 asked

01:03:15.980 perfect

01:03:16.840 well

01:03:17.120 actually

01:03:17.740 we didn't

01:03:18.240 get to

01:03:18.680 talk about

01:03:19.360 this choice

01:03:20.020 between

01:03:20.500 civilization

01:03:21.500 and barbers

01:03:22.160 more in my

01:03:22.700 opinion

01:03:23.080 i don't think

01:03:24.640 people understand

01:03:25.280 that that's

01:03:25.680 the choice

01:03:26.140 they think

01:03:27.320 the choice

01:03:28.220 is between

01:03:28.540 civilization

01:03:29.140 and being

01:03:29.620 nice

01:03:30.100 and we

01:03:30.740 like to

01:03:31.240 be nice

01:03:31.640 but i want

01:03:32.600 to discuss

01:03:32.980 that when

01:03:33.800 we move

01:03:34.220 over so

01:03:34.660 thanks for

01:03:35.140 being here

01:03:35.500 follow us

01:03:36.120 on over

01:03:36.420 for the rest

01:03:36.840 of the

01:03:37.020 conversation

01:03:37.500 are we

01:03:40.060 doing enough

01:03:40.680 to keep

01:03:41.020 radical islam

01:03:41.860 or more

01:03:42.420 extreme versions

01:03:43.520 out of

01:03:44.120 politics

01:03:44.560 that's

01:03:46.060 true

01:03:46.200 to keep

01:03:46.320 safe

01:03:46.920 our

01:03:47.260 body

01:03:47.800 Europa

01:03:48.380 can't

01:03:48.840 wait

01:03:49.180 to

01:03:49.420 you

01:03:49.460 can't

01:03:49.820 find

01:03:50.000 just

01:03:50.380 hi

01:03:50.660 You

TRIGGERnometry - October 06, 2024

Israel Wants to Make This the Last War - Melanie Phillips

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