TRIGGERnometry - Joey Barton SPEAKS OUT About Female Football Pundits

00:00:00.000 I just believe the best person for the job should get the job and that's quite

00:00:04.080 radical at this moment in time. What I'm saying is under qualified women

00:00:09.240 shouldn't be in there because they're taking qualified men's jobs but

00:00:12.960 we're sending the wrong message. I think we're sending the message of be lazy, be

00:00:15.760 controversial, be a victim, cancel people, be a victim. The joke you made about

00:00:20.700 Fred and Rosemary West. I knew I was gonna have that response because they're

00:00:25.800 so fragile these people as uncomfortable as it is you have to be

00:00:30.840 able to speak the truth to power. Joey welcome to the show you are pissing more

00:00:36.660 people off than even we are which is an achievement so welcome to the show yeah

00:00:42.420 you you've been talking a lot and we wanted to have you on to talk about you

00:00:47.640 know your life and where you come from and stuff you've been through but also

00:00:51.300 the stuff you're talking about now you as I say you are kind of upsetting

00:00:55.860 triggering you might say a lot of people because you've dared to point out that

00:00:59.160 some female football pundits are not perhaps they're on merit is that fair to

00:01:05.520 say yeah yeah absolutely yeah and I just believe the best person for the job

00:01:10.260 should get the job and that's quite radical at this moment in time yeah I

00:01:16.560 just think we send the wrong message you know certainly if we're if we're putting

00:01:22.200 people in position not because of their skills and their attitude and you know

00:01:28.020 the ability then I just think we send a dangerous message going forward and look at

00:01:35.220 societies you know I'm only 41 but it's changed a hell of a lot in a short space of time and I don't

00:01:40.760 think it's changed for the better because of you know kind of DI and inclusion I'm all for it

00:01:46.240 I think when I look into sports teams you know any team I've been a part of the more varied

00:01:51.780 the better but it is underpinned on on merit you know we need the best right back for the team

00:01:56.820 you know meet the best left midfielder for the team to make the team function

00:02:00.360 not you know quota quotas and and boxes to tick and you know sport is is the ultimate meritocracy

00:02:07.820 isn't it you know another the doping and the financial doping and all the other stuff that

00:02:12.160 goes on off off the pitch but on the pitch sport is certainly football is is a true meritocracy

00:02:18.620 I think that's why people love sport because at least they have the idea that this is like one

00:02:22.860 of the few places in life where you're either good or you're not you're either performing or you're

00:02:26.780 not and I'm curious because you must have known that saying what you're saying is going to get

00:02:32.740 it's going to make difficult for you to work in football let's be honest yeah yeah is that fair

00:02:36.760 to say well I knew I was burning the boats yeah so it's you know that was and why have you decided

00:02:41.820 to speak up I mean let's be honest you've always been a bit of a troublemaker one way absolutely yeah

00:02:46.620 um whatever I didn't decide to speak out it just kind of came out um I got sacked the Bristol

00:02:55.240 Rovers um we were taken over by a couple of Kuwaiti investors quite different principles culture

00:03:01.480 just not aligned principally with with the way I see the world you know tried divide and conquer

00:03:08.260 strategy relatively early and at that point I'm like okay this is uh this is not for me I'm away

00:03:13.900 from my family I've been down at Bristol two and a half years to change the club's uh culture and

00:03:19.920 then coming out of the management space I knew with this women's commentating in football issue

00:03:26.480 I knew it was frustrating a lot of people certainly when I'm watching it I'm like because I'm listening

00:03:31.160 to the the technical nuances and knowing how incorrect they are like I watch the game at the

00:03:36.100 weekend I shouldn't um um keep banging on about it but I watch a game at the weekend the Everton game

00:03:42.660 and I'm on the dodgy box you know so I can watch all the streams from all different countries the

00:03:48.100 only way you know you can get the only way you can get football you know live football at three

00:03:52.740 o'clock on a Saturday afternoon you can't get in our country and yet all the other countries go on

00:03:56.320 so I'm watching Everton Luton because for me sins I'm an Evertonian in the FA Cup and the first

00:04:01.740 the first goal that Luton score is a foul like it's just it's just if you know what you're looking at

00:04:07.440 it's a foul so they get the goal you've got the male commentator and the female co-commentator

00:04:13.820 I believe the co-commentator's role has to be experts I think they have to have spent a long

00:04:21.160 time either playing the game or time served in the game to give that nuance the expertise to

00:04:27.380 to the audience you know if I'm a young kid out there listening I want I want to I want to know

00:04:32.140 what's happening so I can apply that to my game and they miss it and they get it wrong and then

00:04:37.280 the male the female co-coms is talking about something else entirely she gets the goal she

00:04:42.100 got it wrong when they show multiple replays then you then see Ross Barkley push Calvert-Lewin

00:04:48.820 in the back blatantly and that little nudge is the difference between Dominic heading the ball in

00:04:53.720 the front post or not after about the fourth or fifth replay where she should be now saying look

00:04:59.020 VAR should intervene and disallow this goal she then says oh it's really clever I'm just like I'm just

00:05:06.040 defuriating to watch and I'm like god and I'm not that I'm not a mad football fan anymore because

00:05:12.080 I played the game once you play the game being a dyed in the wool fan goes because you're a mercenary

00:05:17.680 you're a gun for hire you know I've played against Everton as a Newcastle player Man City player and we've

00:05:21.880 scored goals and I've celebrated them and I've been desperate to beat them so I can't no longer claim

00:05:26.700 to be a true Evertonian because I don't want Everton to win above anything else and for me the

00:05:34.840 difficulty lies in if I was watching the golf I'm a keen golfer or the UFC or the boxing and the person

00:05:40.960 who was in the co-coms role or the pundit role was given the wrong information then that would

00:05:45.020 that would give me nonsense I wouldn't be getting that you know stuff I could apply to my game or stuff

00:05:51.860 I could really interpret and use in me in me boxing career or whatever or MMA career

00:05:57.380 and the fact that this is going on on every single media platform and it's going on unchecked because

00:06:05.400 people are either listening to people make mistakes and fearful of pulling them up on it for the

00:06:10.760 repraisals or given you know you've seen a few guys I think in I've seen Jensen Button doing a few

00:06:14.900 times in the Formula Ones where it really looks at the I think it's Danica Stewart or Patrick is it

00:06:19.220 and he's just like she's talking about something to do with her driving and you can see he's just

00:06:23.120 like what the fuck you know what is Checo supposed to do he couldn't just lift off before the corner

00:06:29.720 and pull in behind because looking at that there were cars there so they would have had the opportunity

00:06:33.780 to dive down the outside of him and cause mayhem you know so it's a tricky one but it's when you get

00:06:38.440 to that point of deciding I'm going to turn in now but I need to give them room maybe I just run

00:06:43.140 off track a bit and come back on I think he should have I think he should have lifted and pulled in a

00:06:46.860 been next to Carlos and been two by two and just it's still a good start the problem is lifting

00:06:52.160 as well it causes accidents so you can't just suddenly lift because in an f1 car when you lift

00:06:55.980 there's so much drag that it does slow you down very quickly and the guys behind get affected by

00:07:01.300 that and it just just funnel it goes all the way back I haven't driven one so fair you know he's

00:07:06.080 obviously been an elite level driver and and it's just like and I think we want to see a decrease

00:07:13.440 in misogyny a decrease in racism a decrease in sexism and and that is the whole purpose of

00:07:20.300 DEI you know bringing down these barriers but when they force it on you and they force it on you and

00:07:27.060 it's poor quality poor journalistic standards then you get a rise in everything it was meant to defeat

00:07:34.080 so it becomes it just becomes upset I agree with you it's a good point Joey I think what I would

00:07:41.260 say and a lot as someone who is a football fan when you listen to the cold comms role and even

00:07:46.320 people who played at the elite level frequently the standard is pretty crap as well do you know what

00:07:51.280 I mean yeah the males like I'm I'm watching lots of male you know this has ended up being a bit of a

00:07:57.620 of a volcano because if you can't say anything now about certain groups or people who've put

00:08:05.860 themselves in certain groups there's a lot of poor male commentators out there really for cold comms

00:08:11.860 pundits as well the problem with them guys is they've actually got equity they've got credibility

00:08:18.120 they've played the game and as stupid as their opinions can be they're doing it from a from a

00:08:23.880 knowledgeable position of experienced uh you know the intensity or the speed at which the game moves

00:08:30.420 out or the physicality or they've experienced it and again you know good bad and indifferent in in all

00:08:34.960 the problem I have with the women ex-players is they have no experience of it you know in in essence

00:08:40.140 it's pretty much a different sport I know they'll argue the same rules into the same sport I'm like

00:08:44.360 you know we have to accept that women's cricket and men's cricket ain't the same you know same with

00:08:50.020 rugby women's rugby and men's rugby now I prefer if I watch the tennis I prefer to watch the women's

00:08:56.480 tennis firstly the better looking than the men secondly the the rallies last longer you know the

00:09:02.460 men's games pretty much power serve ace bang you know I prefer the women's golf sometimes to the male

00:09:09.320 golf because they hit the ball so if they're playing a course I've played they hit some of the shots

00:09:14.220 that I can hit the men don't they just hit it like a hundred yards further so I can't relate to it

00:09:19.040 you know so when I watch women's I'm not against women's sports I think women's football's done

00:09:24.100 fantastic in our country you know I've never seen more of it on tv you know there's you know

00:09:30.500 the scene Trafalgar Square I couldn't get into Trafalgar Square for the Lionesses final so it's great

00:09:35.440 but men and women's football like if I as an ex-player I watch women's football trying to be as

00:09:43.580 kind as I can to it but it's just not very good I look I agree with you compared to men's yeah

00:09:48.860 compared to men's you look at like the elite level champions league for instance in the women's game

00:09:54.020 no no in the women's game it's nowhere near close when you get to that elite level of male game

00:09:59.140 they they just can't compete the reason that I find you funny on Twitter Joey is you do like being

00:10:05.900 provocative mate you do like making a joke and it is funny seeing people have a meltdown for instance

00:10:12.160 the uh the the joke you made about um Fred and Rosemary West yeah that is yeah I knew I knew I was

00:10:20.300 going to have that response because they're so they're so fragile these people like like I don't know

00:10:27.320 whether this is a blessing or a curse I've had that much abuse in football stadiums and you can

00:10:31.300 imagine the articles written about me in the commentaries and people passing comment and stuff

00:10:35.340 I've done or said that you just develop a bit of a thicker skin yeah you know when you've had as much

00:10:41.920 said to me as as what I have in the end you realize it's it's me who's taking offense to it yeah you

00:10:49.680 actually can't offend me you know it's not possible for you to offend me I have to at some level let you

00:10:56.740 win to to be offended so me and Blackie used to work on this thing of visualizing and the only

00:11:01.880 time I'd done Constance and the only time I'd done the vim off breathing every single morning

00:11:06.760 was in the Burnley promotion the year we won the league I religiously used to get up and do it every

00:11:12.300 morning I've never felt clearer you know that was a great working environment that the manager built

00:11:17.500 there and for me in in terms of um you know provoking people Blackie we would talk about

00:11:26.260 stepping into this like like almost like as you know a bubble of strength and no one we're not

00:11:31.340 going to let anyone in the opposition players the opposition fans the referee we're not and if we

00:11:36.460 choose to open the door and interact with it then but we know what so I asked it worked on this kind

00:11:41.700 of visualization concept I didn't get sent off that year lowest number of buttons team of the year

00:11:46.340 so there was a few factors vim off and and some of the stuff we just for people we were talking

00:11:50.700 before about Wim Hof breathing vim off and your mentor is a mentor Steve Black yeah he made a big

00:11:56.540 difference in your career so in terms of I then moved that concept further out in terms of like words

00:12:02.740 and offense and you know I I've I've used it I think to benefit my life because you know you can

00:12:10.860 be offended every time you open the curtains if you want to be you know I find it bizarre that people

00:12:15.120 follow me on Twitter or X as it's now called and get offended at what I'm putting out there when no

00:12:21.720 one asked you to be here no no I also now have worked out because I've been in Twitter a long period

00:12:26.880 of time although I haven't used it but I've always kind of monitored what's going on and I do think it's

00:12:30.820 got nuts oh yeah lots but if you use it for what it is a tool you can you can use it for benefit as

00:12:37.900 as we clearly have um and I just figured out I can't be I can't why am I taking offense to that

00:12:46.080 just just block it out it's the same way if I came in here now I called you a fat bastard

00:12:49.800 you'd be like well I'm not fat so you wouldn't get offended by it you only get offended if there's

00:12:55.320 an element of truth in it or the more close to the truth it is the more it clearly offends or

00:12:58.860 triggers people as we want to call it and you know I've just got to the point where I'm actually

00:13:04.200 you know I'm not trying to cause anyone any offense like purposely want to make people upset or unhappy

00:13:09.900 but if me just saying like basic truths is going to trigger you to make you unhappy then fuck you

00:13:15.840 you know you know what's interesting is like I'm actually not that big a football fan the boys here

00:13:20.960 the studio much more so than no but when I watch some of the stuff that you're saying and then I

00:13:27.000 look at the stuff you're talking about it's hard to argue with what you're saying and when I talk to

00:13:32.400 people who are not in the media space just normal people I'm look people can agree or disagree with

00:13:39.960 your opinion about female pundits but most people in the country actually do share that opinion men and

00:13:46.040 women by the way they they just do yeah and again I see the feedback I have never had positivity or

00:13:54.800 feedback positively on on the stuff I've talked about over the years as much as this so this is

00:14:01.160 clearly hit a nerve the fact that was still it was a month about a month ago I tweeted about you know

00:14:06.780 let's be serious here the women shouldn't have any authority in the men's game like

00:14:09.900 and I'll I'm prepared to sit in front of any ex-woman player anyone wants to have a chat about

00:14:16.340 but yet they just keep attacking the messenger not the message um and even Emma Hayes I went to the

00:14:23.600 Leeds in Sport conference Emma spoke there she's seen as the best woman manager in the WSL you know

00:14:28.520 she could be the crossover I know there was a lady who stood in last night in the Bundesliga for Union

00:14:34.040 Berlin and they won 1-0 because the manager got suspended for I think pushing Leroy Sane in the face so

00:14:38.560 you've got a three game five game eight game ban something like that and a lady his assistant

00:14:42.920 manager's a lady she stepped in the woman so obviously you know they can manage in the women's

00:14:48.900 I'm not saying they can women can manage in the men's game I'm not I think playing in the men's game

00:14:52.820 really hell of a lot harder for them but men going the other way which is inevitable if they if they

00:14:57.140 don't um if they don't change the law because it's only a 12 month cooling off period I looked into

00:15:01.780 because I thought I might just fucking poke the box entirely you know I'm fairly fairly overweight

00:15:08.140 now for for what I was when I played I'm 41 but I still think I could be Erling Harland next season

00:15:12.960 in the WSL even if I have testosterone suppressors no danger I'm just bigger stronger faster

00:15:20.740 you know they wouldn't be able to deal with that but then also that the brain you know the little

00:15:28.560 nudges the new the dark arts the the stuff that um you know would be very very easy for me to apply

00:15:35.900 in in the WSL and be very very successful and then they would be fucked wouldn't they because

00:15:41.420 they couldn't attack me if I woke up and I said I'm Josephine Barton and I'm playing in WSL next year

00:15:45.540 well now they've got a they can't write negative articles about me you know it's a good move in many

00:15:54.080 it is it is but then when you're running by your kids I'm like shall I just piss these off completely

00:15:58.320 and they're like dad don't we you know this is the last thing we need uh so if I didn't have kids I

00:16:03.260 would I would I would be tempted just to poke the box almost to say look this is how absurd your

00:16:07.920 position is but then you know you don't want to make fun of what is a serious topic you know serious

00:16:12.320 conversation and I'm just seeing now um obviously the swimmer in in America is trying to get in the

00:16:18.380 Olympics yeah yeah and then you've had um obviously the woman golfer uh the the man golfer win the

00:16:25.340 women's golf um we've covered this issue a fair bit on the show because it's ridiculous yeah and this

00:16:29.840 is the problem is it's it's I'm just like okay objectively in a thousand years so you're going

00:16:33.600 to bury this person it's got all this sport and achievements on the gravestone what a great you

00:16:37.720 know women's champion golf bang bang bang bang bang and then they do a dna and they're like

00:16:42.200 these must have been stupid because that's a dude they did not know the difference between

00:16:47.880 and and and again if we can't agree on simple things like you know the basics then we've got

00:16:55.140 no no chance of solving the really complex stuff that we've clearly got to get through if we're

00:16:59.200 going to survive on the planet for another 500 years I mean we'd be fortunate at this rate

00:17:04.540 Joey do you think it's quite bizarre almost because like you said football is in many ways the ultimate

00:17:10.640 meritocracy it doesn't matter who your dad is it doesn't matter your background what color you are

00:17:16.200 blah blah blah blah you can either do it or you can't and it's pure meritocracy and then on the

00:17:21.980 other side you've got this I mean it's it's utterly bizarre isn't it yeah it is strange isn't it because

00:17:28.520 you know as I say most sport is is meritocracy the best person who gives you the best chance of winning

00:17:34.620 gets the jersey um which I think it's not a right it's not radical it's just common common sense I'm

00:17:43.460 like yeah you want the best people we know that diversification I read a book called teams of

00:17:47.820 teams by uh general stanley mccrystal and they talk about you know diversity is massive in in terms of

00:17:53.620 it does help you you know get different perspectives different and we know it it leads to better

00:17:58.460 performance but diversity for diversity's sake or equality for you know equality it's inclusion for

00:18:04.640 inclusion's sake is bizarre you know the the highlight of this being the current uh she follows

00:18:09.460 me actually we were with this um I don't know whether it's a real person but has been um taking

00:18:14.440 mark cuban on um about you know saying dallas mavericks should have she wants to play for the

00:18:20.040 dallas mavericks because they haven't got a chinese uh five foot two chinese girl in the team you know

00:18:24.360 if you've got in your other businesses and I think it's somebody's parody account but I think it's got

00:18:29.080 quite big traction it's and she's still cubans actually was interacting with her for a bit and has

00:18:33.320 then blocked the block that's gone but again you know the the message we've got to send to people

00:18:39.860 is work hard be as be a be as diligent as you can in upgrading your skills and and if you do that and

00:18:47.380 you and you put the time and effort in you will get rewarded and you will get on but we're sending

00:18:51.540 the wrong message I think we're sending the message of be lazy be controversial um be a victim

00:18:57.080 cancel people be a victim and what would that just I just think we're just it's just gonna

00:19:02.580 society's just gonna spiral off the back of it and you know I think I think we've I do think we've

00:19:07.900 gone past kind of that peak wokeness when I'm watching the states now um I've been you know I always

00:19:13.640 watched American kind of uh culture because it ends up in some form of fashion by the weird osmosis

00:19:19.520 of television you know uh um ruining our society when I look at the you know the message the

00:19:26.160 Kardashians send to young girls I mean it's just so so dangerous I think that the worst kind of people

00:19:31.420 you know change your body you're not good enough alter yourself you know you know these girls look

00:19:40.620 up to them you know if they release a mascara and tens of millions of these young kids are watching it

00:19:47.460 and it over sexualized and everything you know basically make yourself a superstar by doing a sex tape

00:19:52.020 and then exploiting everything that comes afterwards um and yet they celebrated and I'm like

00:19:57.420 this is just we're just sending the wrong message we won't realize for 20 or 30 years what the

00:20:03.420 consequences of this are and obviously Yuri Rezhov and and the it you know the the stuff that they'd

00:20:09.680 been saying about kind of what the Soviets were going to do to universities we're kind of seeing

00:20:13.960 you know that kind of and I know Peterson Jordan Peterson was talking about you know language a long

00:20:19.160 time ago and he was really really strong on not letting the woke take control of language and

00:20:24.720 and we're seeing why you know the the crazy situation we're in now for me I didn't think

00:20:31.820 we'd be this stupid because I I want to work on the premise that most people are rational

00:20:35.760 and most people are reasonable but what I'm finding now is and COVID for me was the big

00:20:41.300 change point when I was seeing people driving around in the cars with a mask on and they were the

00:20:46.900 only person in the car I'm like when I'm seeing people you know banging pots and pandas and I'm

00:20:54.340 getting locked in the house and phoning um the authorities on the neighbors because they've had

00:20:59.140 three walks today I'm just like where are we going and and it's a strange like I didn't get vaccinated

00:21:05.640 because I watched um the the the companies basically say if anything happens we're not gonna

00:21:15.620 and I was I'd got COVID relatively early I was just watching it unfold I was like there's not enough

00:21:20.400 information here you know anything I knew about vaccines and I kind of read a book I shouldn't

00:21:25.920 have read it really called Merchants a Doubt About the Tobacco Industry and I would kind of um you know

00:21:30.420 corrupted the medical industry to say smoking was great for you and obviously we all now know that

00:21:34.980 not to be true and I just had this this I was just like this just isn't right this is this kind

00:21:40.920 and I didn't want to kill anybody's gran I didn't want to pass the infection on as well you know so

00:21:45.160 you know I end up volunteering because we got shut down in football obviously we all got stopped so I

00:21:49.760 end up volunteering for the royal volunteers and and you know ended up doing a load of washing and

00:21:53.940 getting a few messages for for a guy who was living near me who obviously didn't have a washing

00:21:58.640 machine and would go to the laundrette so obviously COVID happening um and it didn't obviously want to

00:22:03.960 you know cause any problems for society and and luckily got COVID so in early March natural

00:22:13.240 uh fought it off it was wasn't that nice lost me sense of smell taste for 10 12 days

00:22:19.200 did feel different to the flu yeah no we we had a couple two or three times and

00:22:25.280 one of the two one of them was really barely noticeable for me the other two pretty brutal

00:22:30.840 it like it wasn't a flu it was yeah I felt that like I was in the back garden we'd been shut down

00:22:36.020 for COVID and just felt really really cold to the point where I ran a hot bath and knowing you know

00:22:42.500 the bath's hot you get in there and it felt freezing but like steam's coming off me so I was

00:22:47.080 like this is not right I only felt like that for two days really cold really like fluy and then but

00:22:53.200 the smell and taste had gone so that why would I need a vaccine if my body had built up natural

00:22:58.840 antibodies towards it it doesn't stop you getting it it doesn't stop you passing it like

00:23:02.040 and then when they were starting to say like you know for me the big thing was when they started

00:23:07.260 offering people in America like burger and fries and I was just like what's going on here and then

00:23:11.980 luckily I didn't you know didn't need to get vaccinated to carry on playing I probably would have

00:23:17.780 done if you'd have said to me you need to take this vaccine because we want to go back playing we want

00:23:21.020 to start the football season back up and get the season finished I probably would have taken it

00:23:24.900 because I'm that desperate to play football and if the you know the club doctor was telling me

00:23:28.580 which I think's gone on at lots of these clubs you know I know they've put off the vaccine

00:23:32.520 conversation till after the general election because it's clearly going to go right across

00:23:37.680 all parties but and I would have you know for the for the pressures of our industry I probably would

00:23:45.680 have got at least one one vaccination you know I've taken flu vaccines if I go if I go on you

00:23:50.720 know a far east trip or I go to the Amazon I would take the required vaccines to not get you know

00:23:56.560 the tropical diseases that are out there so I'm not anti-vax and by the grace of God if there is a God

00:24:04.080 I didn't get injected and at the time my wife was pregnant with my youngest son Etienne now and

00:24:10.060 her family were kind of in that limbo that everyone was in trying to do the right thing

00:24:15.300 and her brother got vaccinated and got rushed to hospital within 24 hours and had to get his

00:24:21.440 appendix out just you know definitely as a as a in response to what what he'd been injected with

00:24:29.660 you know these the 91% of the UK I think that was what I read had been vaccinated up one dose at least

00:24:37.920 so there's a lot we're in the minority the people haven't been vaccinated so it's no good going

00:24:43.260 because you're not gonna you're in the minority and I think a lot of good people have made poor

00:24:49.960 decisions because of the information that was at hand or the pressure to keep the economy moving or

00:24:54.420 the jobs moving and I don't think it's a case of going back and punishing everybody you know

00:24:58.980 the same way I think we just have to draw a line under it and it's easy for me to say I haven't lost a

00:25:03.700 loved one I wasn't forced to bury a loved one behind a plastic sheet or with a funeral of two

00:25:08.840 or three people I haven't had uh covert injuries you know because I never took the job the job

00:25:14.080 so it's easy for me to say look I think we have to just draw a line and say I think a lot of good

00:25:19.600 people made bad decisions you know we're all subject to change when new information comes to light

00:25:25.820 and I think they tried to do the right thing in the midst of a global pandemic where the government

00:25:30.060 clearly were incompetent or incapable and everybody was trying to do the right thing to protect

00:25:35.460 vulnerable people and in the midst of that they've done some um irreparable damage to people's

00:25:42.040 belief in in government to people's belief in um authority and also to to people's um bodies and

00:25:51.520 families and and some people if that's happened to you I'm not sure I would be able to forgive and

00:25:55.700 forgetful yeah I mean you raised some very good points Joey the thing that I noticed as well is

00:26:01.260 there was football before COVID and football after COVID and I'm going to be honest with you as someone

00:26:07.760 who really loved football really loved it from the age of eight seven eight years old mad keen football

00:26:13.380 fan I'm not sure I like the football after COVID do you know where I'm going with this well VAR is more

00:26:19.780 prevalent now isn't it that's ruined it hasn't it you know I think I think we have to accept that

00:26:23.800 the Black Lives Matter thing was tapped on the back of that don't forget we were all kneeling I had to

00:26:29.040 kneel because my brothers and my cousins been involved in a racially one of the biggest high

00:26:34.520 profile racial murders in in the country imagine I'd have stood when everyone was kneeling so I was

00:26:40.100 like they just because they write whatever they write about me anyway so I'm like well for me to

00:26:43.620 kneel for two seconds stops them calling me a racist because that's what they would have done

00:26:47.240 and also is if I what I felt it was is showing the black people and people of color in the

00:26:54.060 where would you like there's no you know you don't need you don't need to do it every single week and

00:26:59.360 every single game has it kind of got hijacked and then then I've seen people stop players stop doing

00:27:04.540 it and I thought well you know now there's no point just carrying on doing it because there was a lot of

00:27:09.520 players of color who stopped doing it said this is a load of nonsense it's been hijacked by

00:27:14.200 people with nefarious purposes and and it doesn't it doesn't do the cause you know reducing racism any

00:27:21.600 any any any benefit and I and I do agree with you I think it fundamentally changed us who were in the

00:27:27.740 industry because the amount of shit I've had our fans over the years home and away fans by the way

00:27:34.100 when it's going well it's great football but when it's not going so well you know the the people

00:27:38.680 clearly let you know it is in that regard to meritocracy and players and fans and the wages

00:27:46.560 players were getting paid and fans were kind of taken for granted it was kind of like the clubs

00:27:50.860 were trying to exploit fans to get as much money out of them players players were had lost the

00:27:55.640 connection you know working class game the players because the salaries certainly at the top level

00:28:00.240 and even cascading down filtering down you know they were still earning a lot more than the average

00:28:04.740 person and I think that you know certainly for me it was kind of like tv money was what was driving

00:28:11.360 you know the big salaries and it was kind of like I got the feeling players were like fuck the fans

00:28:16.680 fucking annoying in the stadium and there was a bit of a disconnect and then the stadiums were emptied

00:28:23.260 and I think everybody in the industry realized just how important fans in the stadium were if

00:28:28.220 if not as important as the players you know what's the point in it's a Sunday league match in essence if

00:28:36.740 the fans aren't in there you know they make it and what what I think players realized in that period was

00:28:41.280 how fan noise and you know the the momentum the energy that fans can can bring can lead to incredible

00:28:50.180 performance that is just not reachable without the live stadium audience so I think from that regard for

00:28:57.680 players I think it was a really interesting reset and I think players and people in the industry

00:29:03.140 really appreciated the fans in the stadium what it takes to you know to shell out your hard earned

00:29:08.160 wages and travel to a stadium and support your team with the energy and I think from that regard it was

00:29:12.540 really good because I think there was there was a disconnect happening and I think that reset that

00:29:17.760 but I do agree with you in terms of the product we came out of um you know we there's no doubt that

00:29:24.420 George Floyd Black Lives Matter thing irreconcilably uh disrupted our culture you know beyond I think it had more

00:29:32.800 impact than anybody's even figured out here and it shouldn't because America is a you know there's a completely

00:29:40.300 different entity to to to the UK but then you know with social media and YouTube and all of a sudden people who are

00:29:47.940 bored people who are unimportant or unimpressive hijack these um movements you know to add pronouns

00:29:56.680 on and add you know whether it's Ukraine and anti you know whatever it is anti-Russia or Middle East now

00:30:02.800 or you know whatever a crusade it is and the problem for them is they hijack and and and and they take so

00:30:07.620 many positions that eventually as we're seeing now in some of the communities they end up cannibalizing each

00:30:12.220 other because although they stood on the same thing two years ago now they're in direct competition

00:30:17.560 you know so for me I lowered the drawbridge you know in football I would I was the one who've done

00:30:23.040 the first interview with Amal Fashnu about her uncle killing himself who was I think a gay footballer

00:30:29.820 Justin no one would do it she kept emailing me and I'm like go and ask one of the other you know

00:30:35.800 the ones who'll big profiles who'll do any you know who should really be speaking out on this

00:30:42.120 because they're of color and and and Justin's more aligned to them than me and she just kept no one

00:30:48.700 would do I don't want to name the players names but the big profile even today ex-players now but

00:30:53.640 like massive media profiles didn't want any part of it I said why she's like well they're fearful that

00:30:59.540 they'll get homophobic abuse in the stadiums so I'm like well if I get homophobic abuse in the

00:31:04.140 stadiums it's a positive it's a positive from what I'm getting so and also my uncle Tom's gay

00:31:11.420 and he was one of my heroes growing up and I didn't know he was gay till I was like 19 or 20 and it

00:31:15.940 wasn't it at that point it wasn't okay to be gay in the 80s and 90s certainly in rural working class

00:31:22.820 like uh offsprings of Liverpool you know so you know can we talk about that a little bit yeah I'm just

00:31:30.960 so what I was going to say to you then is so I got asked to do this interview yeah I didn't want

00:31:35.880 to do it because it's not my course I've got a gay uncle it's not to do with me she couldn't get

00:31:40.920 anyone to do it so I said to her look I'll do it for you because I'm not bothered about anyone saying

00:31:45.000 I'm gay and the off spin of that I think it was for the BBC or whatever she did of it the off spin

00:31:50.520 of that was Paddy Power and Stonewall came to me and said look we've got this idea for rainbow laces

00:31:56.220 you we've seen you do that would you be up and so I was like okay what is this and and so I end up

00:32:03.540 being the first person to wear rainbow laces and got all sort of some of my teammates to do it and now

00:32:08.340 it's become the premier leagues it's taken on by them they never you know when they put my CV out

00:32:14.280 or never mention me because that would give me credit you know so you don't want to give me you

00:32:18.640 know this like let's just call him a bastard for all those things but let's not uh you know shine

00:32:23.000 light on the on the stuff he's used as profile for positive for so so I end up do do that that's

00:32:28.340 become a big thing now so I actually lowered the drawbridge because I was like if there's got

00:32:34.100 one in ten men are gay how many professional footballers is in the UK law of averages like

00:32:39.140 just just logic who says here there's got to be some lads in the dressing room I know for a fact

00:32:42.920 I've played with three or four but they couldn't they weren't out they couldn't come out publicly

00:32:47.280 why not Joey I just think for the abuse that you would get in a football stadium you know because

00:32:51.960 like anything you know you've seen it with you see the clip going online yesterday about the guy

00:32:56.000 he's doing BBC Radio Wales from the Newport Man United game and he's saying oh this is great the

00:33:00.880 fans are singing Anthony's the Greatest you know the Brazilian winger yeah and when he goes can you

00:33:05.020 not hear it and as he slows it down you can clearly hear them singing Anthony's a Rapist

00:33:08.860 which he's been accused of in Brazil Anthony's the Greatest is the latest chant from the

00:33:16.120 oh no it's not greatest sorry

00:33:19.200 apologies if you understand that and then he realizes but obviously it's just brilliance in terms of he

00:33:29.280 actually as thought the fans were singing there because again football stadiums you know you

00:33:34.520 misbehave you can't tell 2,000 4,000 8,000 drunken football fans what to sing and what not to sing

00:33:42.460 or what split is so if you think about football it's concept it's a working class game so we still

00:33:49.060 have a huge class system in this country I think and I see it every single day when I watch and I see

00:33:52.780 it especially now when I watch the Guardian journalist attack me Guardian that was once an ally of mine been in

00:33:58.380 the officers when I was talking about um you know quote Nietzsche and I was going to art galleries and I

00:34:03.480 was talking about Rembrandt the Guardian were all over me when I was doing Stonewall and Rainbow

00:34:08.700 Guardian could you know I could have got my own uh opinion column in there no problem and then all of a

00:34:14.800 sudden I take this position of um the class is right wing I don't I don't I don't see I suppose if

00:34:21.440 you're that far left anything's right yeah um and again you know you know take take the position

00:34:27.140 has said my truth about what I feel about the female uh standard of commentary in the men's game

00:34:32.200 and also that it's it's taken men with credible credibility and equities jobs that's what they're

00:34:36.760 forgetting you know a lot of white and I don't want to be a victim here and play instead has it but

00:34:41.340 a lot of white ex-players are no longer a viable option because it's not politically correct to have

00:34:48.400 them on the tv really so in the industry now if you're an ex-player who's a white male of a certain

00:34:53.760 age you just wouldn't get anyone I've had so many people reach out to me who obviously you know

00:34:58.720 petrified to say anything because there will be replay ramifications of like

00:35:04.020 I'm seeing low 90 percent 95 positive in in personal feedback about 80 20 on twitter

00:35:14.480 never about 70 30 on instagram they're the only kind of ones a gauge and and then

00:35:20.720 I always think there's lots of people and I've met these people who come up to me in person they

00:35:25.820 say I completely agree with you but I can't say anything if I said that I'd get sacked by work and

00:35:29.520 they work for like a car manufacturer like because they're on like zero hour contracts whatever or I

00:35:33.920 can't say that because me I get in a dispute with me partner or but totally agree with you yeah

00:35:39.380 so I'm only seeing a small kind of synopsis of people's real sentiments and feeling as you're

00:35:46.160 saying you smelling it and sensing it as well and I think you know it's only one thing here about

00:35:51.180 female commentating the male game but clearly in society in businesses across it this is um infected

00:35:58.660 for the negative a lot of these other industries so you know I'm seeing because I get a lot of uh

00:36:06.380 feedback in terms of they put me a lot of you know racism misogynist whatever they want to call me

00:36:11.820 from day to day but they haven't actually come for me on the homophobic one the reason they can't is

00:36:16.580 because I've done the rainbow laces campaign they probably will after they still attack me in grade

00:36:20.020 um but now what you're seeing in that community because I interact with these because I was the

00:36:24.580 first person to to you know certainly in the modern era to put a you know to put put my balls on the

00:36:29.600 line so to speak to say we should make it absolutely fine for to be a gay footballer clearly there's been

00:36:34.780 thousands of them but they haven't we haven't made the landscape um safe enough for them to be able

00:36:42.840 to come out whilst they're playing I know Thomas Hittelsberger and a few lads I think there is a

00:36:46.640 guy playing in the lower leagues at Blackpool um who's who's who's out but on the whole I think a lot

00:36:53.100 of people and I think if you're a good player I think it would be wise at the minute wrong but wise

00:36:58.080 at the minute for all manner of different things to to stay in the closet is that really true Joey

00:37:02.980 because I look I don't know the game as well as you obviously uh but I find it hard to imagine

00:37:09.480 that in the society that we live in now thousands of people are going to chant homophobic abuse at

00:37:14.720 somebody in public well you've seen someone do a monkey scientist to a black player at Sheffield

00:37:19.640 Wednesday last week so clearly they're gonna because they say stuff designed to hate you so

00:37:24.260 they'll say that the stuff they've said like I remember getting out of jail right came out of jail

00:37:29.340 for assault I've had a fight in the Liverpool City Centre my first game back was at the Emirates

00:37:33.720 I was on the bench Kevin Keegan put me on the bench for Newcastle against uh Arsenal it was my

00:37:37.920 reintroduction to Premier League football so it's the Emirates which is a sanitiser stadium you know

00:37:44.900 it's soft in terms of you know there's no levelance in that stadium like some stadiums you go

00:37:49.920 viral clip right look it's a fantastic stadium I know what you mean it's filled with graphic

00:37:56.500 designers yeah it's been it feels a bit manufactured and forced to try to create an atmosphere in there

00:38:01.740 which is different to the you know I'm old enough to have played that hybrid multiple times and

00:38:05.840 really on yeah really narrow pitch you know you can feel people breathing when you're taking a throw in

00:38:11.000 all the corner you can feel you know you can you can you can touch you these old football amphitheaters

00:38:15.880 the modern stadiums change a little bit now you know obviously you know they've got a got an

00:38:21.120 upgrade and I do think it's for the best but I'm at the Emirates as I say not the bowling ground not

00:38:26.880 West Ham or something where the fans are on yet and I'm warming up and as I'm warming up this guy is

00:38:33.160 just shouting abuse abuse abuse at me basically because I've been to jail for assault and he's but he's

00:38:39.940 telling me he's going to slit my throat so he's saying to me I'm going to slit if I can if I come

00:38:43.500 here I'll slit your throat and and he's sitting next to his son who must have been five or six

00:38:47.600 seven at the time shouting his abuse at me and the reason he's shouting abuse at me is because I've

00:38:51.680 been involved in a violent altercation and he's been taught to me to shout abuse nobody around him's

00:38:56.620 checking him like everyone's kind of sitting there like it's not happening and I'm kind of like

00:39:00.400 now there's part of me because I'm fight or flight and I'm fight there's part of me that's like

00:39:05.820 okay let's see what this is about like so I I would always turn and meet it head on look him

00:39:12.280 directly in the eyes because I'm like well if you said this to me where you knew there was going to

00:39:17.920 be a chance of of you being held accountable not that the fact that you're sitting in a stadium in

00:39:22.420 the stand and the stewards and there's a there's advertising orders and about five rows of seats in

00:39:26.880 between me there's no way in the world you would be able to do what you what you what you're professing

00:39:33.600 that you're going to do to me if you get your hands on me plus you're sitting next to your son

00:39:36.500 and like this is meant to be a football stadium and and that for me is is the absurdity of of the

00:39:44.100 world like of football at times you know you cannot sanitize football stadiums you're going to get

00:39:50.800 people shouting mad stuff because it is it is the modern version of a church in terms of people go

00:39:57.180 there religiously it's everything to them you know being a Liverpool fan a Man United fan well it's

00:40:03.060 everything to them it actually makes them a success so there's lots of people who aren't

00:40:07.880 successful but support a successful team and they almost become successful as a bike brother because

00:40:12.960 they're a winner because they support winning team which is peculiar it's there's not many

00:40:19.100 there's not many sports I think that have the reach in the world that football has and I think

00:40:25.620 when used positively it can be incredible you know you look at I've just read a book and I don't know why

00:40:30.880 my first war I can remember was the Balkans so I remember that being on the TV obviously

00:40:35.820 Slobodan Milosevic and all the kind of you know Sarajevo and the UN stepping in and then the guy who

00:40:42.300 fixed me foot was a UN doctor and told me some of the stories graphically what had gone on you know

00:40:47.100 the ethnic cleansing nuts and

00:40:52.040 Croatian football doing well you know way achieved you know population of five million

00:40:58.680 producing Luka Modric, Davos Sucher, Robert Prisnek it could be and I remember the Yugoslavian team

00:41:04.680 breaking up because if you ever remember the Euros was won by Denmark who weren't in it

00:41:08.420 Yugoslavia had disbanded and Denmark took the place and ended up winning I think in 1992

00:41:13.100 it was yeah the Euros England were crapping it the Graham Turner Turner period where we were terrible

00:41:18.860 we didn't make the World Cup 94 so I my Irish heritage kicked in I became an Ireland fan 94

00:41:25.580 because England weren't there but Italia 90 was my first World Cup I can remember but then there was

00:41:30.120 two wars at the back end if you remember there obviously the conflict in the Balkan states

00:41:33.780 Yugoslavia breaking up and the first Gulf War and I read a book about it and actually

00:41:39.680 the war was in it took it started the rebellion and and the revolution took place in the football

00:41:46.400 stadiums when I've got a book Yugoslavia politics and football because I was like how is this how is

00:41:51.840 this country I wanted to know how it produced the caliber of players because if you look at

00:41:56.720 Yugoslavia without a shadow of a doubt would if Croatia have got to World Cup finals and semi-finals

00:42:01.180 Yugoslavia with the talent pool he had would have no doubt been very very close to winning a major

00:42:07.440 tournament so you know they'd won I think the youth tournaments preceding and and they were they were

00:42:12.320 you were about to become a golden generation you know Croatia get to the semi-final of France 98

00:42:18.060 and you think you add in what is it you've got Slovenia is it in there Slovenia Serbia obviously

00:42:25.280 Croatia Kosovo Macedonia things like six countries in there and then when you when you know football at

00:42:31.800 the level I do and you go through and you go oh Pandev play for Inter Milan and play for Macedonia he would

00:42:36.560 have played for that and you know you know you would have had an incredible talent pool and reading

00:42:43.520 it for me made me realize how important football is for social debate it's been the place you could go

00:42:52.720 when the stars you were in or when you know the the government was not maybe how you wanted it in

00:42:58.160 Yugoslavia and you could rebel you could you could you could group together you could share ideas did go and

00:43:05.040 travel to games you know it became quite revolutionary fans in Iran now chanting against the regime and

00:43:10.320 stuff like that and and this is the thing where we have to be careful with the sports washing you

00:43:14.400 know one of my clubs Newcastle bought by the Saudis doesn't really you know an excellent mind man city

00:43:21.840 obviously got a nation-state owner in in in Abu Dhabi government it is interesting isn't it because

00:43:27.040 there's that contrast you know you gotta be the contrast between like what some people at the

00:43:32.960 forefront of let's say sports coverage say about you know the signaling virtue about this and that

00:43:41.600 so imagine for instance James Milner so I see James Milner as like I played with Millie at Newcastle never

00:43:46.400 drank drinks tea every like the ultimate professional if you want to be a footballer if I if I'm a manager

00:43:52.160 and you say who can I what attitude can I take and give to all my players it's Milner gets the

00:43:58.000 maximum out of him so if he's been forced to play in the Premier League and he needs to take an injection

00:44:03.760 I don't know whether he has and I haven't asked Millie this but like so so dangerous now if he came out

00:44:14.000 and said look I've had the vaccine and and I had this reaction to it and I don't think you should get

00:44:19.200 it think of the the power that would have think how dangerous that is for people who don't want that

00:44:24.800 to be the narrative yeah so if you look at football now I had Latisse talking I was listening to a

00:44:29.520 podcast uh with Matt on uh uh Michael Anthony because I've done a podcast with him a while back

00:44:36.320 in totally different energy to you guys interesting guy and and and Latisse is on there and he's talking

00:44:43.920 about how character and like footballers now there's just no characters it's just very very bland and

00:44:50.080 you get like a Marcus Rashford who goes on a you know does the the the I think really good to go and

00:44:55.200 get the school dinners thing and holds the government accountable there but it's very seldom you see them

00:45:00.800 come out and have and have a message I do remember when I was growing up you had kind of Robbie Fowler with

00:45:04.720 the Dockers and I think because of the way the salaries and the way clubs are now and the media

00:45:12.640 control and also the all the training these players are given they're just robots you know you see

00:45:17.040 interviews after the game you can almost verbatim kind of predict what they're going to say can't

00:45:21.360 you you know you can almost you can almost but Joe this is what I was getting at right it's just

00:45:26.000 just sanitize it boring uh well right except it also seems to me that there are some people who are

00:45:31.840 allowed to express whatever opinions they want do you see I'm getting that I mean is a good example

00:45:37.360 of this right because this is someone who expresses quite a lot of opinions that to a lot of people in

00:45:42.480 the country are wrong or controversial or whatever but it just seems like when you say what you say

00:45:48.160 about female pundits or whatever shock horror outrage etc Gary Lineker can say whatever he wants

00:45:54.080 while working for the national broadcaster yeah and again you do you know and I know there's people

00:46:00.960 within that the industry that kind of find that uh absurd but then it's it's about power isn't it

00:46:07.040 really when you think about it so judging from the outside I don't know it looks like

00:46:13.360 Gary's had a coup d'etard he pretty much does what he wants at the BBC because he's he's probably got

00:46:17.760 them by the short and curly's you know if you don't do this I'll piss off and work for CBS or I'll go and

00:46:21.840 work for Al Jazeera or I'll go and work for the highest bid at Amazon or whatever so he's obviously

00:46:26.880 in a position where they're petrified of losing him um and again you know I know a bit more about

00:46:34.880 that that character and kind of what they get up to and if people actually knew the truth about what

00:46:38.800 he get what he's done what he gets up to it wouldn't last five minutes you know with the virtue signaling

00:46:45.200 yeah I mean absolutely like despicable uh and then to say the stuff he says I'm like

00:46:53.120 but that's a lot of these people Joey because you know Jordan Henderson you know he was an LGBTQ

00:46:59.120 role model coming out and you know talking about acceptance and whatever else Saudis waive a 350 grand

00:47:06.480 a week tax-free salary in his face and he's see you later boys I'm off to I'm off to Saudi Arabia

00:47:12.240 yeah and look I mean you have to be careful I would fucking take that deal I'm not gonna lie

00:47:18.240 again you have to be careful telling the truth because you know you can be principled and stand

00:47:21.760 for something but again it's out the window if if you take that the the biggest bundle of cash isn't it

00:47:28.480 you know so yeah so again you know do you think he's a bad person no because if someone offers you

00:47:32.400 that I mean he's it's not lasted long as he's on his way back or he's gone to Ajax now so

00:47:37.120 you know most people are virtuous until enough money is put in front of the face

00:47:44.320 you know you know what I mean like for me I'm lucky and I don't value money I have no

00:47:50.400 like it doesn't make me happy and I've only only know that because I've not had it and had it

00:47:56.240 so you know it's easy life's well easier if you've got it like I'd rather have it than not have it

00:48:00.560 you know so I can't ever begrudge anybody but it can't be why you do what you do like I made one

00:48:07.200 move in my career for money and I hated it I hated every moment moment of a QPR and I've been vocal

00:48:12.640 and a lot of the QPR fans don't like me because I've said I only signed for the club because of

00:48:18.240 the contract there and and I didn't enjoy my time there because I knew I joined for the wrong reasons

00:48:23.440 it wasn't I didn't like the club or the people like and I had a great moment with winning the

00:48:27.120 playoff final within the last minute when we're down to 10 men stuff I'll 85 I'll never forget

00:48:31.600 like life affirming moments and always look to that club positively but because I was honest and

00:48:38.960 I said I signed for the money you know I was leaving Newcastle and I fell out with Mike Ashley the

00:48:45.360 owner there and and I went to the highest bidder sorry I'm a mercenary like you know at that point

00:48:50.160 I was 30 you know you know I haven't got 10 15 years left I know I'm 35 36 whatever you know

00:48:56.320 it's very ageist my sport unfortunately I'm very ableist as well once your body fails you

00:49:02.240 as much as I'd like to stay there for another 10 or 15 years I'm open with the if this DI continues

00:49:07.280 you have to go for an old gray-haired white person in your team I don't think that's ever going to

00:49:10.640 happen Joey you're going to have to wait for 700 years but I'm in the category now of as they say

00:49:14.960 and we'll get back to it of white male and stale yeah so as I said to you when I'd said what I'd said

00:49:19.920 about the women lots of ex-players lots of ex-media personalities have reached out to me

00:49:24.880 said look you can't quote me on this but this is the landscape this is what's going on you know

00:49:28.400 behind the cameras there's no DI all the people who are producers and executive producers financially

00:49:34.400 uh beneficial jobs are all white but everyone in front of the camera or where it matters have

00:49:40.080 obviously they're petrified now because of the George Floyd black lives matter all the marches

00:49:45.120 and the petrified that the woke mob turn on them and then shut them down and if if they didn't

00:49:49.200 they're like how do we defend our ivory tower right let's let's let's diversify in front of the um and

00:49:56.080 all the people who've got equity who've been in our organization and and and and done great work

00:50:01.520 for years now we're gone because this doesn't fit the public uh face and arm of of our corporation

00:50:08.160 and for me I'm just like every time you turn the tv on I'm like fucking hell like

00:50:13.920 so so what it's done and this is the bad the bad thing for me I'm driving

00:50:19.600 I shouldn't say this out loud but I end up in the house and I'm unemployed at the minute so you

00:50:24.080 obviously do a lot of daytime tv surfing so I'm watching some documentary finishes and I flick over

00:50:30.560 and I don't know why I like this but every now and again if the bowls is on you know the crown green

00:50:35.280 bowls I find myself watching it I don't know why I find it incredible unemployment will do that

00:50:40.000 to you no no I've played every a lot of pubs by ours used to have a crown green bowling uh thing in

00:50:45.920 the back garden so and there was a couple of lads in our road who whose dad played crown green bowls

00:50:51.040 so I wasn't into crown green bowls there was one in our park um but we used to use it for football

00:50:58.480 which obviously wasn't great for them because it was the best surface oh yeah you know we only had

00:51:02.880 trainers on we didn't wear boots on or anything but we would get chased off by the by the parkkeeper

00:51:07.200 if you've seen us on there but we would play on it and and every now and again my mate would bring

00:51:11.200 us bowls and you'd have a game and it is actually a fascinating game if you can if you if you play it

00:51:16.080 only after an hour you wouldn't want to play as a career I wouldn't certainly and you know so

00:51:20.400 I end up flicking over and I'm watching the bowls and there was a woman co-coms on the bowls

00:51:25.520 okay and I started thinking to myself all these women are in football and they're usually wrong

00:51:32.080 so I wonder if there's a bowling ex-player like me who's played bowls for years who's now sitting

00:51:37.280 in front of the tele going mad because she is technically incorrect in her analysis of the

00:51:42.960 crown green bowls and then I was driving yesterday and um was it yesterday or saturday and I flicked

00:51:49.520 radio five on to try and get the footy commentary on and it wasn't it was the netball um New Zealand

00:51:55.680 against England was on the live commentary which you can imagine it was quite riveting for a radio

00:52:00.800 commentary and it was two female comms and co-coms but I was there talking I was the same I was like

00:52:07.120 these could be waffling shite yeah I've no longer any trust in other sports female commentary because I feel

00:52:15.600 the ones we've got in the sport that I'm I'm I'm known for I've got credibility in

00:52:20.640 if we work on pretto's law of 80 20 80 of the time the poor or incorrect there is some good women

00:52:30.320 pundits out there not denying that but we've got overkill now there's too many and lots of them aren't

00:52:35.680 good and you can't remove them because if they come with a couple of box six and they play certain

00:52:39.840 cards which lots of them do they're actually really really difficult to remove because they sue you and

00:52:44.960 they go down all the you know you're seeing with Eni who's sued me suing me she's joined with Jeremy

00:52:49.920 Vine's lawyers to sue me so I've got a letter they kindly sent me a message on Instagram to tell me I

00:52:54.400 was going to get it which is obviously uh well a lawyer's contact so Jeremy so Jeremy sue me for

00:53:00.080 bike nonce saying I'm calling him a pedophile or whatever and I'm not I'm like no for me noncing

00:53:05.440 about on a bike with a camera on your helmet trying to get people points he's on his phone

00:53:09.760 at traffic is a peculiar way to spend your day yeah um and then he asked me to after I first said

00:53:17.120 this I've got so so how this happened I I wasn't planning this I I knew this would be a topic that would

00:53:24.640 cause outrage women's commons because so many people were pissed off with the standards of and

00:53:30.240 it was just annoying people so I said to Noah and Josh we're going to launch a podcast I said I'll do this

00:53:35.040 15th of Jan I'm going away on all day get back about 10th of Jan I'll talk about it here so that was the

00:53:39.520 plan and then I've joined the snooker league to get me competitive fix with my mates in the winter

00:53:44.720 so we play snooker on a Wednesday and it's in the working men's clubs in and around uh the area I'm

00:53:49.520 all ex-mining villages so it's like £1.50 a pint which you won't understand if you're in London

00:53:55.360 but it's like you can't spend your money in there you know but and it's they're all you know ex-labor

00:54:00.560 clubs or conservative clubs or like but but the working men's clubs and amazon were doing the games that

00:54:08.240 on that Wednesday so every game you could watch and everyone had a different commentary team

00:54:14.800 so whilst the other lads are playing I'm waiting for my game I've got a couple of pints and then

00:54:18.080 I played I'm like what the fuck what are they on about every time I kept changing the telly over

00:54:21.920 because they were that bad played my game come back and now about five or six pints in and

00:54:27.040 I ended up sending that tweet because I was like what are these on about then I went to bed that night

00:54:33.760 and I got up the next day I turned my phone off to the avalanche of wokeness attacking me and I

00:54:39.600 thought oh fuck I'm I've got two options here I had to say apologize for what I've tweeted and say

00:54:45.680 I didn't really meant it I was playing snooker I had a few pints or whatever or I actually do mean it

00:54:50.480 and fuck yes which is my take um so my take was that Piers Morgan reaches out to me and says look

00:54:57.440 do you want to come on and defend you know I'm like oh come on no problem and I didn't think it was going

00:55:02.240 to be what it was because he didn't tell me anybody else was coming on so it'll be 15 minutes I'll ask

00:55:06.240 you a few questions I thought it'd be quite safe because he's aligned with this anti-woke policy

00:55:11.440 and I go on and it was obviously an ambush set for me which I knew I said to Noah this won't be

00:55:16.000 straightforward even no Piers there'll be some there's something coming here so I was pacing

00:55:19.520 around before trying to think of the attack what's the attack gonna be where's it coming from who's it

00:55:24.080 gonna be I do the first bit and if you're not if you've seen the interview after 15 minutes says

00:55:28.960 we're going to come back after the break and we're going to have three female ex-players on so I'm like

00:55:32.960 so I'm like I'm off I was shouting I'm going because he didn't tell me come back on and it was Bianca

00:55:37.600 Westwood off sky some of a woman who had written a football podcast or had an interest in

00:55:43.360 football inconsequential and a young girl who's an anti-feminist called Pearl Davis who's online

00:55:50.000 is youtuber I'd never met I don't know youtube I'm a 41 year old ex-footballer

00:55:54.080 no no no listen Bianca do you think Bianca can I just ask you a question and I respect your

00:55:59.520 opinion massively I respect your opinion massively do you think the women's game and the men's game

00:56:04.640 is the same game

00:56:08.080 the laws of the game are exactly the same the same rules apply you know whether it's yellow card red

00:56:13.840 card offside you can read the game it's still exactly the same there's two goals and 11 players

00:56:20.000 play have you ever been tackled that full speed it's not about that have you ever been tackled

00:56:25.600 that full speed by a fully grown man and the velocity that that involves that really doesn't

00:56:32.960 have anything to do with it you seem to have changed your opinion joey when you were

00:56:37.040 but it not appears earlier you had a problem with women who weren't qualified to talk about

00:56:41.440 the game who didn't have the journalism background to talk about the game and now you're saying the

00:56:46.560 game's different he's saying that he's changing his mind he's changing his mind all the time

00:56:52.160 have you got a problem with the journalistic coverage or have you got a problem with the

00:56:55.360 playing of the game please don't all talk over each other Bianca you're just shouting at me

00:57:00.000 i can't hear you being a top player doesn't mean you're going to be a serious conversation

00:57:04.640 this is becoming a farce the first Bianca comes on and she's just attacking me just just coming for me

00:57:11.440 it was kind of i'm just sitting there smiling because i'm like you you've done my work for me

00:57:16.400 i don't even have to say anything like there's going to be so many people who are now in my camp

00:57:19.600 because of the stance you've taken there was another woman they tapped on second who was trying

00:57:24.000 to like get involved she was a bit politer so i expected pearl to come on and she was i was like

00:57:28.240 who's this american she must be really smart she's going to put a hole in me yeah so i'm like what

00:57:31.840 the other two didn't really they were just confirming why women shouldn't really be talking about

00:57:36.400 football really or certainly about the men's game and then pearl comes on and was like you

00:57:41.440 aren't listening to him and she'd actually taken the time to listen was like no no he's not saying

00:57:45.120 that he's saying not saying women out of football which i'm not saying far from it some of the some

00:57:49.600 great friends of mine in football women but what i'm saying is underqualified women shouldn't be

00:57:55.280 shouldn't be in there because they're taking qualified men's jobs and i just think that's wrong

00:57:58.640 you know men mainly in football um i've played the game mainly all right there is the other exception

00:58:04.640 who've become exceptional but on the whole it's it's people who've played the game and if you put

00:58:10.560 a lot of women who play football are lesbians to be honest you know it's not feminist women it might

00:58:15.360 be a bit more now it's a bit cooler but it's usually lesbians who play women's games so they're not going

00:58:19.200 to have kids unless they adopt and do madonna or angelina jolie and kind of do that virtue signaling one

00:58:25.600 so you're taking away men's jobs who've got equity in the game whose careers now beyond them because

00:58:30.400 the body can't do it anymore and they're breadwinners they usually got kids to feed and families to put

00:58:34.560 to look after and because it doesn't fit this cool agenda of having a female on there or a person

00:58:40.640 of color on there or a homosexual on there or whatever it is or a transsexual on there

00:58:45.120 all of a sudden their earning capacity is gone and the amount of people on us they're kind of

00:58:50.320 ex-players and i'm saying would you say and they said can't say publicly letis goes on about the

00:58:54.720 people dropping down dead and he's contacted the pfa and fifa pro and he tells a great story about it and

00:59:00.320 say way way more credit credible than me in this space and you know when when i look at the attacks

00:59:07.680 on him you know he's not me he's very well behaved he's one of the most loyal players i've ever known

00:59:14.960 didn't leave southampton when he could have gone anywhere a true individual channel islander you know

00:59:19.600 so so um i found out today they're actually called donkeys weirdly because they're that stubborn which

00:59:26.320 fits for matt's personality because um he's he's taking a stance and i think it's cost him his media

00:59:32.880 career and further opportunities beyond that and the amount of um women i see in in those roles who are

00:59:43.760 taking men's jobs now those women must be the best of the best because they're on the best shows doing

00:59:49.760 the best matches and they're not very good on the whole some are but it's in the minority

00:59:56.240 they could be commentating on the women's game where they're credible they could be building

01:00:00.880 making the mistakes that they're making on the tv in the men's game now and getting ridiculed for it

01:00:04.800 and getting abuse online and having to close the profiles in the women's game and eventually someone

01:00:09.760 will go you know what she's really good let's get on the men and that's the way i think it should work

01:00:12.800 the cream should rise to the top they've got enormous credibility in there

01:00:18.160 but they've got none in the men's game this is absolutely zero and and any man

01:00:22.560 ex-player who tells you the women's women commentators or pundits are taken seriously he's a liar

01:00:27.760 he's a liar and and i'm telling you there's none of them that take it serious it's just they want to

01:00:32.320 keep the job like you can see on the overlap all the stuff they do they don't think that deep down

01:00:37.200 but they're getting paid for it and they've got profile and they've got power so you can't blame

01:00:40.800 Gary Lineker i don't i don't um i don't know how he gets away with what he gets away with in the bbc

01:00:47.520 because it's it's obviously taxpayer you know through the license fee funded but again i would

01:00:54.000 imagine that he just it's checks and balances isn't it there's no checks and balances on him and that

01:00:59.280 was evidence the other day when the wayne rooney tweet was put on by bbc sports about the peaky blinders

01:01:04.560 and he came and said get it taken down within 15 minutes it was down when you see the uh sports

01:01:10.400 personality there is well it's a joke like but when you see obviously the keeper when you see who's at

01:01:15.200 the front and center of that there he is again you know the the woke diversity nonsense that you see

01:01:20.800 in there it's just running them off and even when i look at ex-teammates of mine who've attacked me

01:01:27.120 we didn't like each other when we played and when i look at the personnel who were in certain roles

01:01:34.240 it's so racist it's untrue what do you mean by that joey well it's racist because it's against white

01:01:39.360 people so that the that exclude them white people specifically because they're white so we did that

01:01:45.280 if that was done any to any other race we got but we go oh well you know white people have owned

01:01:49.920 slaves and had tobacco i'm like i haven't i'm from liverpool working class estate irish immigrant

01:01:58.480 family you know i haven't owned any tobacco plantations or uh cotton plantations and you

01:02:04.160 know that wasn't me that from what i know they did landed aristocracy who were sitting in houses of

01:02:08.560 lords or in buckingham palace you take it up with them you know i i i don't get how we've gone from

01:02:16.960 you know 82 percent of the british population are white and yet we're excluding them based on the

01:02:25.280 fact that they're white what can you do about being born in britain unfortunately there's not

01:02:28.480 enough sunnier to get any other shake like once we exclude people on color it's just bad we would

01:02:35.360 never do it um you know to to any other race i think it's fundamentally wrong to do it and it's happening

01:02:43.680 to white people and everybody's just kind of going oh well you know the white people have done some

01:02:48.560 bad things in the past i'm like yeah so what you can do what the fuck you want to them now you can

01:02:53.120 pretty much just exclude them from um having the opportunity to use merit and and use their ability

01:03:00.640 to get as far as they can in life and i just think it's wrong absolutely wrong at its core uh i'm not i

01:03:06.320 quite agree with you joey there's one thing that i really wanted to talk to you about which is

01:03:10.240 mindset okay what makes a premier league footballer why is it that some people

01:03:16.320 who have the ability i'm thinking of someone like ravel morrison who was at west ham and probably

01:03:20.880 the most ravela qpr yeah yeah who is one of the most talented footballers of his generation if

01:03:26.560 that's what rio said and lots of other people yeah really talented why is it someone like him

01:03:31.360 never made the top and yet there are other people who are less talented like your gary nevels

01:03:37.360 who then go on and win champions leagues twice leagues etc etc yeah look to win trophies you've

01:03:43.840 got to be at certain clubs you know there's only so many teams that can win a trophy at the top level

01:03:49.120 there's only so many teams that can win the champions league you probably count them on two hands

01:03:54.160 similar with when it comes to the premier league you might get the odd leicester who you know the

01:03:57.920 old curveball team but on the whole pretty much all the top leagues in and all the top countries go to a

01:04:03.840 certain select amount of clubs so to play for a certain team at the right time can mean you end

01:04:10.720 up with a trophy laden career or like use latiss for example clearly a player capable of uh magic but

01:04:18.240 won't have won much because he stayed at southampton and constantly fought relegation and never went to

01:04:23.360 you know join chelsea or tottenham or liverpool or man united so so massively decrease your chance of

01:04:30.560 winning all these trophies like harry kane prime examples had to leave tottenham to go and try and

01:04:34.320 get the trophies he feels like he's going to need to be held in the same esteem as some of the greats

01:04:39.520 that have played the game um you know playing for bayern munich i do think is is a chance for him to

01:04:47.840 cement his his legacy he obviously negates his chance of beating shearers uh premier league record but again

01:04:55.040 he's probably good enough player to come back at some point in the next two three four years and

01:05:00.960 and still get to that record i think um and then what people what people miss with footballers is

01:05:09.280 addictive personalities who get addicted to football at a young age and then dedicate everything in their

01:05:18.080 life to that in terms of you know every waking moment you know remember me being in school all

01:05:24.720 i'm thinking about is the training i've got to do after school finishes or the game i'm going to play

01:05:29.520 in or what the teachers talk and i'm trying to pay attention but i'm thinking about the game i'm going

01:05:33.760 to play in or training i've got that night for you know for everton's academy at the time or man city's

01:05:38.080 academy and what people miss with footballers is it takes enormous discipline over a long period like i

01:05:45.520 sacrifice being a teenager which is probably a good thing because there would have only been trouble

01:05:50.080 or the stuff that's out there and i look at all my close peer group i grew up with who've

01:05:54.560 either been killed killed been involved in uh crime at a high level and i've either had to leave the

01:06:03.120 country or i was living in other countries now that you know so i go well that was that was the kind

01:06:08.080 of group i was in luckily for me at 15 16 my mum and dad got divorced at 14 i went to live with

01:06:14.480 my grandmother who was a lot more strict than my mum so i was kept on a real tight leash my brothers

01:06:19.040 weren't they stay with my mum on the council estate and i just moved off but was with my gran

01:06:24.160 and she would go when i was at that age where i could have just slipped like i'd say i'm staying

01:06:28.560 in my mates and i was going fishing or about with my mates and she got if i said i was staying in my

01:06:34.880 mate she'd want to speak to my mate's mother or she'd visit the house to make sure i was there which

01:06:39.040 my mum never would have done and loads of people's parents didn't so they could fall in the cracks

01:06:43.840 of being you know a little bit mischievous as a youngster i couldn't because my gran had literally

01:06:50.800 if i if i said i was um staying somewhere or was late coming in she'd come and get me and pull me out

01:06:56.320 of it only happened once twice i never done it again because i thought she'll drive me out make a show

01:07:00.640 me and she'd done that to me dad but but it worked with me because i had something to to get after

01:07:05.760 a career i was touching over a long period but something to get after and then it was the sacrifice

01:07:12.160 you know 16 17 18 people are wanting to drink drug experiment girls whatever's coming in

01:07:19.200 i knew if i did that i wasn't going to be good enough to make it because i'd seen lots of people

01:07:23.040 get in trouble with all of those vices who were talented better players than me

01:07:28.720 and it didn't make it ravel you know would be in that category of incredible player play with

01:07:34.400 revela qpr strange character in terms of just being allowed to get away with lots because of his

01:07:40.080 talent he actually just needed someone really strong with him to to show him he didn't need

01:07:46.160 a disciplinarian but he needed someone to to you know i i believe men men need male mentors who

01:07:53.680 fucked up and changed their lives like blacky for me was one peter k from sport and chance

01:07:58.480 clinic former drug and alcoholic changed my life fundamentally um and when you when you meet

01:08:06.080 these older people who aren't perfect who say look i've felt that and i've done that and i've

01:08:12.320 fucked up and i've done actually 10 times worse than you're here you know i've done next all of a

01:08:16.080 sudden you're you realize oh my god like i'm not a bad person i've just made a mistake here and

01:08:23.440 i think when we go through in the world and we try and make everyone perfect you can't make a mistake

01:08:27.200 i just think it's really dangerous because for me life is a series of fucking up and trying to

01:08:32.560 improve you know being prepared to fail whether that's on your bench press if you're trying to

01:08:36.640 lift or in a race or i think failure is very very important and lots of failure obviously you don't

01:08:42.320 want catastrophic failure because you know you don't recover from it but i think you've got to put

01:08:47.120 yourself in a position to fail you know to be ridiculed to you know you it's the only way for

01:08:53.120 me you make real progress and when i look at like a gary neville like you spoke about i feel like i'm

01:08:58.080 going around a little bit gary neville would be somebody who did everything right trained slept at

01:09:03.360 everything right and that increases your chances of making it it's very very difficult to make it

01:09:08.400 because someone can tackle you and that's the end there at 15 16 17 or you might grow you know your

01:09:13.600 genetic constraints might kick in or you know a manager might fancy it you know in a key

01:09:18.080 window where you need an opportunity to play so it is finally balanced but i think the people who

01:09:23.360 have a fantastic attitude like you know gary neville would i would say would be you know like almost like

01:09:29.040 a perfect a prefect in school he would do everything he could you know that's not every character because

01:09:34.800 sometimes as you know with great football with that addictive personality comes quirkiness you look like a

01:09:39.520 gaza clearly incredible football based on his his quirky mindset but obviously that's caused him a

01:09:45.760 lot of problems in in his life and i think someone like that you know gaza probably needed an alex

01:09:51.920 ferguson type role model and everyone thinks if he decided for man united that would have been different

01:09:55.600 for gaza but then you're right to point out ravel morrison was under fergus tutelage and i've seen a lot

01:10:00.960 of my you know the way i'd behaved as a younger person where what you were actually wanting was someone

01:10:06.000 to mentor you because what we're all looking for is structure and boundaries and this is why i worry

01:10:10.400 about society now if you just left you know the evergreen thing i don't know whether you've seen

01:10:14.160 this did you see that yeah we've had all the people so when people when kids are telling adults what to

01:10:18.880 do i think the lunatics are now running the asylum and now remember being 20 me i'm on a hero's journey

01:10:25.280 i've just got in the first team at man city i start getting into you know 20 to 24 is is when my world

01:10:31.200 kind of changes in terms of i become what i've always dreamt of becoming and i get financially

01:10:35.520 rewarded for that and i remember the arrogance of of of me thinking i've cracked this i know

01:10:40.320 everything i look back at it now i think my god how naive and how stupid you was but i remember the

01:10:44.880 energy i had that you know i said i turned atheist in that period i'm like no i've done all this reading

01:10:49.520 and you think you know everything plus you're really really motivated in terms of you know people

01:10:54.080 go to war in them in them age categories you come out of university or you come out of school and

01:10:58.800 whatever and you're ready to take the world on and you think you know everything and it's only when

01:11:03.040 you're 40 or you're 30 you realize how stupid you was in your 20s you know you only have to look back

01:11:07.360 at old 40s to see the clothes you've got your haircuts etc um and and that energy now is going

01:11:15.440 unchecked because that's scaring 30 40 50 60 year olds to death and they're petrified to say anything

01:11:23.280 so now the lunatics are running the asylum that's what we've got and and again i do think society is

01:11:29.040 broken down because people have forgotten what it's like to get slapped or punched in the face

01:11:33.120 you know you you do some of these radical things that these are doing and someone punches you in the

01:11:36.720 face once you don't do it again no because you think fucking hell don't don't fancy that you know

01:11:42.320 don't agree with it but i got hit as a kid you know when i stepped out of line i got whacked it

01:11:47.600 stopped me stepping out of line again now i i don't bring my kids up in in that world you know because

01:11:53.360 i've learned a different strategy and you know spoke to great mentors and read lots of books and

01:11:58.400 i'm trying a different way with it and i want to have a different relationship with my kids but then

01:12:02.480 when i see the world that we're in i'm like this is probably a this is probably a factor that kids

01:12:08.320 now are just going unchecked you know university just running over the professors and it is this

01:12:14.320 your impression of besmanov yeah of of this um when i look at it and i don't know loads about it

01:12:20.320 i've just heard a few guys talking about it i'm like i don't know it's what peterson's been saying

01:12:24.960 the universities have been hijacked and these mega young really really want to take the world on and

01:12:32.560 make their stamp and change the world people are just so confused and they're just running rough

01:12:37.840 shot against everything and they're actually pulling the very institutions and the fabric of

01:12:44.240 society that we need to function healthfully down and it's causing irreparable damage i think to some

01:12:52.880 institutions and and if we're not careful you know i didn't think east germany the star i'm always like

01:13:01.040 how the stars he made the how did they did one third of the population you know opt into spying on

01:13:08.720 and working for the for the state against the people and covert made me realize actually really

01:13:14.960 really quickly really really quickly a minority can take over a majority it was the stuff you guys

01:13:22.240 were speaking about i only heard it on the little clip before yeah i didn't know i'm like oh yeah

01:13:27.600 actually if we don't if we don't stand up and say our truth and even if you get excommunicated i'm

01:13:34.240 i've been the black sheep so i'm cool i'm like listen i'm just on the naughty step again i've been

01:13:37.520 here loads of times and what i learned out on that step when when you're ostracized and you

01:13:42.880 get out there because you're a bad person all you want to do is fit in because we're quite tribal you

01:13:48.320 know we're prime primates i believe hierarchical chimpanzees you know um darwin's fear of evolution

01:13:55.360 had a huge effect on me you know i'm still as i say it made me an atheist dawkins etc uh christopher

01:14:02.400 hitchens is a huge uh influence on me but a few things have happened and i've met people and it's

01:14:08.320 just kept me agnostic like it's just a few weird things where i'm like hopefully and it gives me

01:14:14.080 great salvation and at this moment because i'm like hopefully there is something um out there that is

01:14:20.160 has got a good you know if there is a heaven or whatever it is and there is a god and he's got this

01:14:25.440 ultimately he'll allow good to prevail and when i look back across humanity and you see you know

01:14:31.280 the nazis get seen off you think what god what it must have been touch and go for large periods of

01:14:35.760 that early part of the 1939 to you know my nan was born 42 it doesn't look until like 42 43 and and

01:14:44.560 you know when the russians and get involved that it kind of goes away from uh hitler but when you look at

01:14:51.920 kind of history and you look at um good prevailing you know i know there's been mass murder and

01:14:59.920 genocide in cambodia or the native americans and but i do believe good gets through and you know it's

01:15:07.760 the peterson stuff of it only works if you can speak truth to power you know putin for instance thought

01:15:15.680 he was going to take ukraine in what two three days because he's in a vacuum where nobody will tell

01:15:20.000 him the truth for fear of the consequence you're not allowed to tell the truth to power because if

01:15:24.240 the if the power doesn't like the truth that's the end there you know style and you know all these

01:15:28.400 dictators or whatever you know we actually have an episode with a historian about talking about

01:15:32.960 that very i'll have to get into it yeah it'll come out after yours but we'll send it to you well

01:15:37.520 and i've seen use it into world history i didn't want to take down this rabbit hole guys sorry

01:15:40.800 yeah so so so for me you know if you cannot if you can't speak the truth to power if eventually

01:15:49.600 it's going to disintegrate which is what i think putin's two and a bit years in now to a three-day

01:15:55.440 war you know he thought the ukrainians were going to roll over almost like the the french and wave them

01:15:59.840 into to paris you know and obviously the the the adverse uh scenario he's in now is that that that

01:16:07.680 that hasn't happened and that has hasn't happened because of the way he's constructed the world that

01:16:14.080 he's in you know no one's telling him the truth and and again you know for me we have to i agreed

01:16:22.560 with what you said i don't think it's perfect our country by the way but when i've traveled around

01:16:27.040 the world and i've seen lots of places and look we've got loads of work to do but but i think it's a

01:16:31.840 a fantastic country for for many many reasons pothole and as soon as i replied to your thing

01:16:38.000 people come back at me all the all the things we're not doing so well training times pothole

01:16:41.920 but see people get confused about this and you were talking about this from the personal level as well

01:16:46.400 just because something isn't perfect or a person isn't perfect doesn't mean they're a bad person

01:16:51.360 it means they've got things they can work on yeah yeah but the the way i feel about the way people

01:16:55.600 talk about this country and they talk about america and the west more broadly it's like if you talked

01:17:00.240 about your partner your wife your girlfriend in the way that people talk about their country

01:17:06.560 people would say you're an abuser yeah if you talk that way about your wife right yeah but but we for

01:17:12.000 some reason we're allowed i mean of course we're allowed to we all have free speech i just mean

01:17:16.160 we are allowing people to get deluded about the reality of the place in which they live and then they

01:17:22.000 go out and they say all these things that's not to say we haven't got problems see i have to

01:17:25.920 disagree with it i don't think we've got free speech i don't know honestly i i i i would like

01:17:30.160 to think we have but then you know i've found out recently we don't you know people want to sue you

01:17:35.200 and i'm i'm you know i kind of get it but i've spoken to people when people have written pieces

01:17:41.440 about me in the past and i'm like what is this libel and they're like hmm well this is how much it's

01:17:46.560 going to cost and in the end you're like um what's it's just wasted resource and you know the only

01:17:52.560 people are winning it is lawyers and then when you get these lawyers of no win no fee kind of

01:17:56.880 buzzing around you know looking for outrage and looking to you know give themselves work i find

01:18:02.000 it peculiar um you know let's say i i do believe as uncomfortable as it is you have to be able to

01:18:11.040 speak the truth to power and the problem we've got at this moment in time is you know power is just not

01:18:17.360 listening is it's just it's you know just you know it's not listening to people and i i've never

01:18:23.440 ever thought we'd be in a position where you know the government are stealing from the people like

01:18:31.120 the ppe stuff is just probably the tip of the iceberg if they get into it you know track and trace what

01:18:36.960 was that three billion what the fuck was that all about like you know another two and a half billions

01:18:40.960 of ukraine this keep going in until you i'm like what what are we doing like the russians i don't

01:18:47.760 agree with putin i do think he's a bad man but to control a country like that the same way with sad

01:18:53.920 mussein you need bad people you can't i'm russian and i really don't like putin but it's not untrue

01:19:00.320 well again but you need bad people to control big

01:19:03.520 massive um what would i call it like ethno diverse groups religiously diverse groups across so

01:19:14.240 you can't expect a nice guy to to hold that together you know now i'm

01:19:18.800 you know putin's the extreme example of that you know don't disagree with him you have his enemies

01:19:23.600 have a funny um habit of falling out windows all blowing up in planes you know but i was watching the

01:19:30.320 whole pregosian i'm like speaking to a couple of my pals who weren't with me were one's an ex

01:19:36.960 sas sas and one's ex doctor in the sbs and i'm like i'm back and forth with them on the wall like

01:19:42.640 i've never seen anything like this also when the you know the the gas pipes getting blown up i'm like

01:19:47.280 who's this who's who's done this is this a good thing is this a bad thing and then

01:19:53.440 you know you i think society has to it's the peterson one again of it's it's when really dangerous men

01:19:59.840 or are capable of it but don't use it yeah there has to be a deterrent like you know you have to

01:20:05.360 think if i do this there's going to be a consequence now if there's no deterrent as californian

01:20:10.880 retail industries finding out you know there has to be a deterrence you just say well we're not going

01:20:15.920 to prosecute anyone who steals less than nine hundred and fifty dollars well great my dad worked as a

01:20:21.440 a security guard we needed to go off on a tangent in in a big supermarket chain uh just before he

01:20:26.480 retired and he said none of the security guards would stop people who were shoplifting because

01:20:32.880 they'd say put can you put that down because if they touch them there's a completely different um

01:20:38.960 case opening up where they could be sued so your your security guard in in a in a supermarket chain

01:20:44.320 stopping people shoplifting but you can't go anywhere near them now my dad's different he would

01:20:47.680 stop them and then in the end he's like i'm getting i got in trouble so he said you're asking me to stop

01:20:53.840 people stealing from in the shop and i'm trying to stop them and if i put my hands on them to take the

01:20:59.520 stuff off them i get sued so what's that and the job doesn't pay enough for yeah and it's this this is

01:21:06.320 just this strange strange uh world of consequences for some things and no consequences for other

01:21:14.560 things and it's like okay like so it's you know the policing being one you know seeing you know the

01:21:20.800 kind of two-tier policing somebody is able to shout obscenities and then i've seen i don't know if

01:21:25.120 you've seen this clip of the looks like a volunteer police officer telling someone to not to sing a

01:21:29.920 church or a gospel song yesterday no miss you're not allowed to sing church songs outside of church

01:21:36.720 grounds by the way you're not allowed to sing church songs outside that's fine you're not allowed she

01:21:44.160 just said you know allowed to sing church songs outside of church our churches outside the church

01:21:48.480 grounds unless you have uh unless you've been authorized by the churches to do this kind of song

01:21:54.240 so you know it's okay for certain religions to pray outside and take over spaces and

01:21:59.520 and and but it's not for other religions and and the police are policing one and arresting

01:22:05.920 people and rounding them up and allowing you know it's it's the demonstrations we've seen

01:22:10.640 that as with as well you know a blm demonstrations prime example yeah yeah i mean there was a woman

01:22:15.920 who was arrested for praying silently outside an abortion clinic just like sat in her head

01:22:20.960 can i please ask you to step away from here and step outside the exclusion zone

01:22:27.760 but you've said you're engaging in prayer which is the offense

01:22:31.600 no but you are still engaging in prayer it is an offense

01:22:36.640 you're totally right joey we're running out of time it's been in the thaw police then if she's

01:22:40.800 playing slightly and ed you are now in all that's right that's what i'm saying um and it's really

01:22:45.760 interesting talking to you this we could talk for another hour i actually was going to ask you about

01:22:50.560 you know you've talked a lot about violence in your childhood and dealing with all of that and

01:22:54.720 obviously i'm sure it plays into the young man that you then were and stuff like that i would

01:22:58.560 have loved to talk to you about that maybe we'll we'll come back come on mine and we can yeah we'd

01:23:02.240 love to that but anyway we're going to go to locals with questions from our audience in a second

01:23:08.400 but before we do we always wrap up with the same question which is uh according to you what's the one

01:23:12.480 thing we're not talking about that we really should be oh um the one thing i haven't so i've spoken

01:23:19.360 about a lot recently on certainly on twitter because i'm opening up a few uh uh fronts in

01:23:23.840 terms of uh the discussions for the podcast later uh for me one massive one would be the kind of tax

01:23:31.280 situation and how many of the you know big taxpayers or people who should be paying a lot of tax in this

01:23:36.880 country are just avoiding just loopholes for the rich to get out of it and yet you know i'm someone

01:23:42.480 who's paid an enormous amount of tax you know that that's where i think you know the premier league

01:23:46.960 salaries going north is a great thing because 45 to 50 of them will go in tax and national insurance

01:23:52.160 you know harland's on 900 grand a week well that's great for the tax because you get half of that um

01:23:58.160 and it's you know your starbucks your amazons you you know your big corporations as well as these big

01:24:04.080 wealthy guys whether that's you know the sunach dynasty or the reese mogg dynasty who just blatantly

01:24:12.880 are refusing to pay tax and because they've got the big chartered accountants that they pay

01:24:17.440 financially a lot of money to it's kind of seen as okay it's it's almost white collar crime

01:24:24.640 but you know because it's via all these legal loopholes it's great and i and i think if we

01:24:32.720 actually got into the nitty-gritty of that and people paid the right amount i'm not saying they

01:24:36.880 should get taxed i don't like you know i don't think any population should be taxed more than 25

01:24:43.040 i just don't i don't think you know to tax high earners more than for doing well i'm not necessarily

01:24:51.520 down with that but i think if if we were to go and look at um our tax structure i think a lot of the

01:24:59.520 uh money we could get back from that could be utilized well probably not with this

01:25:03.920 government they'd only probably siphon it off into the offshore accounts um or to the cronies

01:25:09.120 to buy yachts um but but i think you know the people who are profiteering from from the people

01:25:16.320 of this country who were giving us mcdonald's and starbucks and fatty foods and all the problems that

01:25:23.600 arise from from their profiteering i'm not saying they're wrong to do it because in a capitalist

01:25:29.520 structure it's up to people whatever they want to do you want to eat fast food or whatever

01:25:33.680 but all the benefits that their money is making them offshore is not going into the nhs who are

01:25:39.840 dealing with the problems that they're causing with you know the products they're making a huge

01:25:46.000 profit from so for me i think we need to get up get hold of our tax you know tax you tax the poor

01:25:54.080 all the time you know you less driving in here like you're taxing the poor and they're working all

01:25:58.000 the time what about these you know the rich are still getting richer like that yeah we've got to

01:26:02.800 gear our country towards if you do really well out the country and you earn a few quid you should look

01:26:08.160 at it and be say look i'm i'm delighted to pay me tax i've always seen as a badge of honor

01:26:13.520 you know i'm a working class kid who's paying me tax now there's been times where i've been offered

01:26:18.960 you know and there was there's one of them that you should get into that's wiped out all the

01:26:22.320 footballers that's why you're seeing a lot of footballers going bankrupt of the generation before

01:26:26.160 mine because the government's actually had a scheme where you could invest in the british film

01:26:31.840 industry and it would obviously offset some of your tax yeah and and someone offered that to us well

01:26:36.560 well again there's lots of them out there and the banks and all that were all in cahoots with it so

01:26:40.480 they all they were all in cahoots the government it was hmrc regulated or backed and then five years

01:26:46.400 later they they went back and said no no that was illegal clawed the money back lots of players went

01:26:51.600 bankrupt because they couldn't pay it because they'd offset it on off the tax and then they wanted the

01:26:57.360 interest back so i've had i've had to pay it was only 450 grand i shouldn't say only but it was only because

01:27:03.440 i wasn't earning the money at the time because these were financial advisors you know look i'm a working

01:27:08.240 class kid i'm not a banker or a financial you know wizard we were giving financial advice from

01:27:14.080 people who were regulated to do a trust at my bank is the queen was the queen's bank before she passed

01:27:19.040 away and hmrc so they were telling us this is what you should do with your money this the advice and then

01:27:24.800 afterwards they changed they changed the law and then went back when it was legal and said no no we're

01:27:31.040 gonna so it's almost like you can smoke it's legal to smoke so for five years you're smoking and then they

01:27:36.160 and then they say right smoking's illegal and now we're gonna if you've smoked you need to and we're

01:27:41.280 actually going to charge your interest for those uh ciggies you had which is just bizarre so lots of

01:27:45.840 ex-players so there was a if you've seen there's been a tsunami of players who i grew up idolized and

01:27:50.480 who were you know household names all bankrupt one of the guys phoned me and there was a short list i

01:27:56.880 think of 315 of them that it all banded together because they were like this is outrageous we've been told

01:28:02.560 this was legal anyway sorry to digress but one of the things i would change was would be

01:28:08.000 we need to sort out that the people who profiteer and make a lot of money in this country play pay the

01:28:13.440 proportionate amount of tax not because they've got the best accountants and they can forward billions

01:28:17.600 to get away with it um i think if we do that i think that would be a step in in the right direction

01:28:24.880 amongst other things perfect well head on over to locals where we ask joey your questions and a few more of our

01:28:30.240 run i told gary ten years ago when he was giving it to me tight on match of day and i said to him

01:28:36.080 look if you want all my all my skeletons are out all mine were on cctv and i've been to jail for them

01:28:41.920 they're out you know they've been on the back of the pages all yours are still hidden i know stuff

01:28:48.080 that he doesn't want people to know

TRIGGERnometry - February 04, 2024

Joey Barton SPEAKS OUT About Female Football Pundits

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