TRIGGERnometry - Konstantin Kisin vs. NBC Journalist on Elon Musk, Riots and Civil War

00:00:00.000 No amount of faith in the mainstream media survives first contact with the mainstream media.

00:00:05.440 When they write about something or someone you know, or worse still, write about you,

00:00:10.240 it becomes immediately obvious that the objective is not to seek or reveal the truth.

00:00:14.880 It's to advance an agenda. If this sounds a little out there or conspiratorial,

00:00:19.520 I understand, because that's how I used to think as well. The job of journalists is to expose

00:00:24.780 government corruption, corporate malfeasance, and report the news, right? Last week, I was

00:00:30.040 contacted by an NBC journalist for an interview about Elon Musk's comments about what is happening

00:00:35.100 in Europe. What follows is the full, unedited recording of that conversation. Listen for

00:00:40.580 yourself and see if you still think these people are neutral observers who believe that their job

00:00:45.680 is to objectively report on the truth. It's important to understand this is not about this

00:00:50.520 individual journalist. I don't want people having a go at him, and I'm not having a go at him.

00:00:55.320 The issue here is the entire media machine and the way that it operates. Check it out for yourself.

00:01:03.080 Hello, how are you? I'm fantastic. How are you?

00:01:07.880 All right. I'm also thank you. Thank you for getting the time to speak with me. Sure.

00:01:14.920 Yeah. So, um, I guess there was a tweet from, like, it was last October, uh, where, uh, it was,

00:01:24.520 it was right after, um, the terrorist attacks by Hamas on Israel. Uh, there were protests in Europe,

00:01:32.200 uh, uh, some of them supporting Palestinians. Uh, you were, again, you were tweeting about that,

00:01:38.840 and then Luck responded to, if, if current trends continue civil war in Europe is inevitable. Um,

00:01:48.600 and then, of course, he, he was, he tweeted something similar, uh, a week ago, and got into

00:01:53.640 this backing board with, uh, uh, Geir Sturmer, uh, and, and others, on sort of a similar subject of

00:02:01.400 whether the war in Europe is inevitable. I think that same word is inevitable. 1.00

00:02:06.200 Um, and I guess really, I'm just sort of curious about your reaction, uh, to sort of,

00:02:13.800 you know, his sort of exceeded prediction that is, um, is, um, is inevitable. Do you think it's

00:02:22.200 accurate? Do you think he is onto some things? Do you think, do you disagree, or what's your reaction?

00:02:27.480 He's 100% right.

00:02:29.160 What do you think, uh, what do you think that would look like?

00:02:36.200 I don't think anybody knows. What we do know is, if this continues, then there will be,

00:02:43.880 I don't know if civil war is necessarily the way that it will go. No one knows how these things go

00:02:48.760 in history, but, uh, the fact that he's pointing to the, the very simple observation that societies

00:02:58.360 in many European countries are incredibly divided, uh, economically stagnant, have imported large

00:03:05.160 numbers of people from a completely different culture and religion, um, and the demographic side

00:03:12.840 of these conversations obviously matters as well. If you put all that together and you play the movie

00:03:17.800 forward, it's not an unreasonable prediction. Nobody knows how the future will pan out,

00:03:23.000 but based on what we are seeing with our own eyes now, it's quite possible.

00:03:28.840 Okay. Um, you know, I guess about 10 months or so have passed since

00:03:34.840 Musk tweeted that. Um, I don't think we're in a civil war now, but do you think we are? Um,

00:03:41.640 and if, if we're not, you know, um, at what point do you say that must be wrong about that, whichever,

00:03:48.040 or, um, sorry, are you under the impression that Elon Musk is suggesting that a civil war is imminent?

00:03:57.160 Uh, you did not mean the word. No, and he doesn't mean imminent. He said on current trends.

00:04:03.080 So he's talking about very long-term trends that happen over a long period of time.

00:04:09.320 Nobody knows whether it will happen 10 years from now or 30 years from now, and no one's

00:04:14.280 able to predict that. What he's looking at is the direction of travel. And what he's saying,

00:04:19.880 if you go to New York and you drive west from New York, eventually you're going to get to California.

00:04:25.720 That's all he's saying, right? So when you, when you ask me, forgive me, I'm not being rude, but

00:04:32.680 I don't understand how you can ask me if I think we're in the civil war now. Obviously not. A civil

00:04:38.760 war would look like tens of thousands of people killing each other on a daily basis. We're obviously

00:04:44.440 not in that position and no one is saying that we are. And by the way, something I think it's

00:04:49.720 important for you to, to remember is that when we talked about, uh, those comments he made 10 months

00:04:55.800 ago, you said there were some people who were protesting for the Palestinians. Actually, the

00:05:01.560 thing that many of us were reacting to at the time was the fact that there were protests on the street

00:05:07.000 of major European cities before Israel had even retaliated. So they were not support. They were not

00:05:14.520 there to protest for Palestine. They were there to celebrate the mass slaughter that just had just 0.65

00:05:20.200 taken place in Israel. So I think it's important to keep that in mind. That shares for sure. Um,

00:05:27.880 do you think Kluska is using this term civil war in a, in a sort of classic sense of civil war where

00:05:35.160 there is a rebel group that is seeking to overthrow the government or is he thinking just more

00:05:41.880 generally about three violence or terrorist attacks or other kinds of political violence?

00:05:48.040 I have absolutely no idea. You're going to have to ask him.

00:05:53.480 Do you think there will be like a rebel group that is armed and organized and trying to overthrow

00:05:59.480 the UK government? I have absolutely no idea. As I said to you earlier, nobody knows

00:06:06.120 what exactly it's going to look like. In the metaphor I gave you, when you drive west from New York,

00:06:11.800 you will eventually get to California, but how exactly you're going to get there, which roads you're

00:06:15.800 going to take, what is going to happen to you on the way, et cetera. Not, not nobody knows.

00:06:21.080 What Elon Musk is doing is pointing out the fact that Europe is moving in a particular direction

00:06:26.680 on demographics, on economics, on multiculturalism. And these are all perfectly valid points.

00:06:32.840 Uh, doesn't mean he knows or is able to predict exactly how it's going to pan out. Nobody can.

00:06:37.480 But I'm saying that, you know, a civil war by definition is a rebel, armed rebel group.

00:06:46.600 No, no, it's not. Not even remotely by definition is a civil war that. A civil war is two people,

00:06:53.960 two groups of people within one society fighting each other on a national scale.

00:07:00.520 Yeah. But I think by definition of one of those parties is going to be the incumbent government.

00:07:08.440 I don't know why you know that. We, we have absolutely no idea what it could or couldn't look

00:07:13.800 like in the future. I mean, if you, if you look up, you know, any definition of civil war in academic

00:07:21.400 literature, it is incumbent government battling at the belligerent, battling at least one armed rebel

00:07:31.080 group. Well, the, the, the, the rebelliousness of the group or otherwise is kind of a historical

00:07:38.680 issue, right? There are some people, some civil wars that were won by the people you might describe

00:07:43.320 as a civil, there's a rebel group. They wouldn't consider themselves as a rebel group. They would

00:07:47.800 consider themselves a portion of society that had a problem with the other portion of society.

00:07:53.880 Uh, I don't understand why we're, we're getting bogged down in this.

00:07:58.120 Well, you know, because, because you choose this, this term very specifically civil war and it's,

00:08:04.040 and I get that you personally agree with them. Do you think that like, are the immigrants going to 1.00

00:08:10.520 arm themselves and organize and overthrow Westminster?

00:08:14.120 The, the immigrants? 1.00

00:08:16.120 The other way around.

00:08:18.120 I am an immigrant myself. What are you talking about?

00:08:23.640 Well, I'm trying to understand the, the prediction of the civil war.

00:08:28.760 Okay.

00:08:29.240 Um, and, does that, you know, does that-

00:08:33.560 Elon Musk is an immigrant to America. Are you seriously suggesting that he's concerned about

00:08:38.520 immigrants taking up arms against the government?

00:08:41.080 I'm trying to understand what you're saying. So, he tweeted about this eight times in the past year.

00:08:47.160 Yeah.

00:08:47.640 Saying that, I headed to a civil war in Europe, civil war, it's inevitable. Um, 0.69

00:08:55.560 and generally what people mean by a civil war, is that there is an armed group that wants to overthrow the

00:09:03.720 government. So, uh, or I guess the succession type situation. Um, and it would be the political,

00:09:14.280 I guess, of course.

00:09:15.400 I don't know, as I said to you repeatedly, but quite often civil wars, as you said yourself, happen in

00:09:20.920 the situations of succession when there isn't a widely accepted particular government. So,

00:09:27.800 civil war is a term that people use that covers quite a number of eventualities. But I don't,

00:09:33.720 most of all, I don't understand why you're asking me what Elon Musk may or may not think.

00:09:40.440 Well, because, because you were in a conversation with him.

00:09:42.680 Okay.

00:09:43.480 Okay.

00:09:44.040 And I think your reply, actually, was that, um, civil war, someone will fight back,

00:09:49.640 based on the current evidence. I'm not sure that will happen.

00:09:52.760 Right.

00:09:55.480 Uh, I get from the FQs. Who do you think should fight back?

00:10:00.840 Are you, like, forgive me, are you under the impression that either I or Elon Musk want a civil war?

00:10:09.080 No, I know.

00:10:10.280 So then why would you ask me who I think should fight back? I don't think anyone should fight back,

00:10:14.840 because I don't want a civil war. I don't want anyone to be fighting anyone.

00:10:20.440 Okay. So, I guess who would fight back?

00:10:24.840 It depends who would be doing the attacking. I have no idea.

00:10:29.320 Okay.

00:10:32.120 Um, all right, Jeff, if I have any other questions for you.

00:10:35.560 Okay.

00:10:36.120 Do you, do you think that Musk, by talking about this as often as he has,

00:10:43.560 is he increasing the risk of violence?

00:10:46.520 I think he's decreasing the risk of violence, because what he's attempting to do,

00:10:52.200 in exactly the way that I'm attempting to do, is to say people, say to people, rather,

00:10:57.480 do not carry on driving off the cliff. This is not a good thing to do, because if we keep doing that,

00:11:03.160 we're going to end up in a worse place. So, if people actually pay attention and listen to people

00:11:08.440 like him and take that into account and start acting differently and implementing different kinds

00:11:14.040 of policies, that would massively reduce the risk of a civil war, which is precisely what he's trying

00:11:19.560 to do to reduce that risk when he's predicting that it will happen if we carry on down the path

00:11:25.720 that we're going.

00:11:29.560 What do you think the demographics of the UK should be?

00:11:35.800 Excuse me?

00:11:38.280 What do you think the demographics of the UK should be?

00:11:42.600 I don't understand the question.

00:11:45.480 You mentioned earlier about, about how a lot of this was about demographics.

00:11:49.720 Yeah.

00:11:50.280 Changing demographics.

00:11:51.240 Yeah.

00:11:53.960 Should the demographics remain the same, or what should the government's policy be about demographics?

00:12:00.280 I don't know that the government has a policy about demographics, nor am I

00:12:04.280 suggesting that there should be one. What I'm saying to you is, when you have groups of people

00:12:09.880 who don't share a culture living in the same space, in which their sense of national identity

00:12:16.440 is being eroded, and they're not encouraged to think of themselves as British first, and everything

00:12:21.320 else second, or American first, and everything else second, you create the potential for inter-ethnic

00:12:27.880 violence. And we already have it on the streets of Britain. And it's not just white people or Muslims, 0.99

00:12:34.120 it's Muslims versus Sikhs, it's Muslims versus Hindus, etc, etc. So, when you have large numbers of people 0.98

00:12:42.040 come to a place in a small period of time from different cultural backgrounds who may not even

00:12:46.920 speak the same language, who don't share the same religion, it is natural that those tensions are going

00:12:53.400 to be there. So, it's not a question of what I think should be the demographics. What we're pointing

00:12:58.440 out is a policy of open-door mass immigration combined with a policy where we have 40,000 people

00:13:05.960 coming to the country illegally every year is not working. That's the point we're making. It's not 0.72

00:13:12.520 a question of should it be that or should it be this. It's a point that when you do this,

00:13:17.240 the inevitable outcome is inter-ethnic tension.

00:13:22.360 Okay. Could you elaborate at all on sort of the sort of cultural, I forget the phrase

00:13:33.400 you were just using about the culture of the people who are providing immigrants and refugees.

00:13:40.280 It sounds like you think there's not a good fit for the existing culture of the UK.

00:13:45.800 It's not that they are not a good fit. It's that different cultures are different. They have 0.94

00:13:50.760 different values. They have different levels of compatibility. It's not that one is necessarily bad,

00:13:56.680 although some cultures are worse than others for sure. It's the fact that coexisting together 0.65

00:14:01.720 takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of effort. And in this society that increasingly fails to do that,

00:14:08.920 does not encourage people to integrate, does not encourage them to live with other people who are 0.97

00:14:14.280 not like them, but rather allows them to live in pockets in which they don't actually engage with

00:14:19.240 the broader British public. That can cause tensions, and it already is.

00:14:23.320 So what specifically do you think to assimilate or integrate more that they're currently doing?

00:14:36.360 Well, as a very simple example, I used to live in a part of East London that I think is over 40% Bangladeshi.

00:14:44.200 When I went to my doctor in that area, I was given a leaflet that had been translated into about 50 languages.

00:14:51.240 So what that tells me is there are quite a lot of people living in that area, as there are in many

00:14:57.000 other parts of the UK, that don't even bother to learn the language. And they're not being encouraged or

00:15:03.320 helped to do so. Now, it's very difficult to integrate with other people when you don't even have a common

00:15:09.320 language.

00:15:12.600 Okay. Anything else that's on the subject that you'd like to add?

00:15:18.600 Only that I think your line of questioning is very strange. Elon Musk is not saying anything other

00:15:28.440 that we should not pursue policies that are bad for our country. That includes bad for the people

00:15:35.400 on all sides of every cultural difference and everything else. A country that has strife is a

00:15:41.640 bad place to be for everybody. And what he's attempting to do is to encourage people in Europe not to go down that path.

00:15:50.360 So, let me give you a little more context of what I'm writing about. So, I've been asking

00:15:57.480 other people about Bosque traditions in the Civil War. I've told the one person who said that it's

00:16:05.080 a dog whistle, a sort of coded language about Ritz, and that Bosque is, although he doesn't explicitly

00:16:17.320 call for the Civil War, that rhetoric created a little difference between repeatedly predicting one

00:16:25.560 saying it's unavoidable and...

00:16:28.200 He's not saying, but this is the difference. He's not saying it's unavoidable.

00:16:32.520 He said the exact opposite. He said, if we continue to do what we are doing. That's the same as someone

00:16:39.640 saying, if we continue to drive off this cliff, we're gonna fall off it. It's not the same as

00:16:45.000 wanting us to fall off the cliff. On the contrary, he's imploring us not to drive off the cliff.

00:16:53.160 So, that I think is important to say. Then the other point, sorry, just to finish what I'm saying,

00:16:59.720 on this idea that he's concerned about the race of the people involved. Elon Musk is on record saying

00:17:08.680 repeatedly that he is pro-more immigration as long as it's legal and beneficial to the host country.

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00:17:47.480 So, a couple of points there. So, when he tweeted at you, last October, he said that current trend continues.

00:18:00.760 But more recently, he has not included that qualification. He has just said

00:18:06.920 it was a tweet a couple weeks ago with whom Civil War is inevitable.

00:18:11.080 Yeah. Which makes it, you know, he's not both, I guess. He's saying it is inevitable.

00:18:15.560 Well, yeah, if you take those two things together, what I think he's saying is,

00:18:21.480 I've been warning about this for many, many years, as he has been, as I have been.

00:18:26.280 And when you see riots of the scale and nature that we just saw in the UK, when you see hundreds of 0.51

00:18:32.920 armed men, both white thugs and Muslim thugs on the streets of the same cities attempting to fight 0.90

00:18:42.360 each other, that is yet another sign that we're heading down the wrong track. 0.97

00:18:47.560 So, if he's now convinced that, given the current government that we have and the broader direction

00:18:54.920 of travel in the UK, culturally and politically, right, we've just had 14 years of a conservative

00:19:00.280 government that hasn't done anything about any of these issues and, in fact, has made them worse.

00:19:04.200 So, if you take the comparison with when he was talking and now, he could be thinking,

00:19:12.120 you know, this is continuing to get worse and I just don't see anyone on the political scene

00:19:17.720 who's going to turn this around. And if that's how he's thinking, again, he's 100% right.

00:19:22.520 Okay. Um, one other thing, I mean, um, speaking about the reason of violence in the UK, um,

00:19:33.640 most of it was perpetrated by anti-immigrant forces. Should we be more concerned about violence

00:19:44.840 on there, uh, by them or more concerned about violence by immigrants?

00:19:50.120 I, I do not understand why you keep framing this as immigrants.

00:19:54.440 Um, migration, actually, no, no, no, the violence was not the, the, sorry, what the, when I said

00:20:07.320 there were gangs on the street with knives attacking people, it was not Portuguese people 1.00

00:20:14.040 or Ukrainians or Hong Kongers. Most of those people were British born. They're not immigrants. 0.69

00:20:25.000 So, I guess my, my question is, uh,

00:20:28.120 uh, he critics, uh, uh, do you think one side is more likely to turn to violence than another

00:20:43.080 in the immigration debate?

00:20:44.440 Well, as I just explained to you that we just saw on the streets that the, there is a willingness

00:20:52.360 on both sides to become aggressive and threatening and to carry weapons, right? So yes, in this

00:21:04.040 particular instance, the riots were anti, those rioters were anti-immigration, a lot of them,

00:21:11.400 and many of them would have just been there because they like to burn things down or blow 0.98

00:21:16.200 shit up because they don't have a job, right? 0.98

00:21:18.120 People are burning down. Wow. 1.00

00:21:20.840 Uh, I don't believe anyone burned down a mosque, no.

00:21:25.560 Um, I think if you, if you look at the view, that's fine.

00:21:31.320 Let me look it up right now.

00:21:32.520 Yeah, so nobody burned down a mosque.

00:21:40.200 You really should check your facts.

00:21:43.960 Maybe a, maybe a tax on a mosque is just more accurate term. Maybe not burned down, but,

00:21:49.320 um, there are, there weren't tax on a mosque.

00:21:51.640 Yeah, people threatened most, mostly to burn down a mosque, which is a terrible thing to do.

00:21:56.680 Um, but we also had riots the week prior, which were immigrant descended people burning down

00:22:07.480 police cars and police buses, etc. So this is the point I'm trying to make to you repeatedly.

00:22:13.560 There's violence happening from different areas, and that is what Elon Musk is concerned about.

00:22:19.640 He's not saying this particular one group is the threat and we must all focus on it.

00:22:25.640 He's saying the situation overall is not a good situation.

00:22:29.960 Do you think he, um, so one, one reason that I'm calling you is because, um,

00:22:39.560 Elon Musk hasn't really spoken about this. Uh, he's had these sporadic tweets,

00:22:45.000 um, predicting a civil war, but he hasn't really spoken in depth, I don't believe, about

00:22:51.240 this, this idea. Have you heard him talk in greater detail about this, or do you think he said?

00:22:57.640 I don't know Elon Musk personally, so I've only heard what you've heard.

00:23:03.960 Okay. Uh, well, to be clear, I have also researched him, um, asking for

00:23:11.320 clarification on, on what he means when he's, when he's predicting a civil war and, um,

00:23:19.560 and, uh, Given some of the questions you've been asking me, I, I'm not,

00:23:24.680 I'm not positive that he's going to want to speak to you. You don't seem like you're coming at this

00:23:28.840 from an angle of curiosity. You seem like you're, you've already got a story and you're just trying

00:23:33.480 to write that story.

00:23:36.440 Which, which questions do you mean specifically?

00:23:39.240 Um, I, most of the questions you've asked me.

00:23:41.640 I mean, just, it's just, um, I apologize if you've gotten that question, but what I

00:23:47.320 intend is to, I feel like I've been asking very open-ended questions about...

00:23:51.320 No, you've been suggesting answers to, you've been asking me, is it about this? Or is it because

00:23:57.240 he's concerned about race? Or is it because of immigrants or whatever?

00:24:00.360 Right? Which is completely misframing this entire conversation.

00:24:04.360 And you keep putting things to me like some idiot told you that Elon Musk wants a civil war. 1.00

00:24:10.440 What a moronic thing to say. Why would you even bring that up? 1.00

00:24:13.800 Do you honestly think Elon Musk wants people to be murdering each other en masse in Europe?

00:24:21.080 That's what Elon Musk wants.

00:24:22.280 Right. Now you've got a word in my mouth.

00:24:24.760 Am I?

00:24:28.600 Yep. Yep, I did.

00:24:30.040 You said to me, I've spoken to somebody who said, this is a dog whistle, and this is what he's,

00:24:36.440 he's trying to say it because he wants that outcome. He's trying to encourage violence.

00:24:40.680 I quoted that to you because...

00:24:44.760 I know. Why? Why would you quote some idiot? Why would you even include that in your conversation

00:24:49.320 of the story? It's a preposterous thing to assume about somebody.

00:24:53.160 An expert in extremism and political violence who works at a university.

00:24:57.640 So what? It's a preposterous thing to suggest. You think Elon Musk, whose mission is to build

00:25:05.880 spaceships to take us to another planet for the sole reason that we could preserve humanity

00:25:11.640 across multiple planets. That guy, what he's deeply, deeply wants is a civil war in Europe,

00:25:17.800 and that's what he's trying to encourage. And just because this person went to university,

00:25:21.960 you think that makes that a legitimate point of view? It's absurd.

00:25:25.960 I mean, the question I'm trying to answer is,

00:25:27.880 why does Elon Musk seem to spend so much time reading and thinking about civil war?

00:25:34.840 Because he's really, really concerned about it.

00:25:37.640 All right. Okay. Well, that's, that's my, that's my question, really, is why, why is he doing that?

00:25:45.160 And I feel like you give me an answer. So do I.

00:25:47.880 Peace.

00:25:57.640 You

TRIGGERnometry - August 23, 2024

Konstantin Kisin vs. NBC Journalist on Elon Musk, Riots and Civil War

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